July 2, 2011 
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July 2, 2011 NOTICE: This channel is no longer actively logged.
[00:03:48] *** ygrek has quit IRC[00:06:19] *** multi-d has joined #bittorrent[00:11:10] *** TheSHAD0W has joined #bittorrent[00:21:36] *** kitsoran has joined #bittorrent[00:21:42] *** _AdamK_ has joined #bittorrent[00:23:30] *** kitsoran has joined #bittorrent[00:26:38] *** kitsoran_ has joined #bittorrent[00:49:30] *** kitsoran has quit IRC[00:50:09] *** kitsoran_ has quit IRC[00:50:18] *** kitsoran has joined #bittorrent[01:24:45] *** _AdamK_ has quit IRC[01:25:45] *** gde33 has joined #bittorrent[01:27:01] *** _AdamK_ has joined #bittorrent[01:35:32] *** _AdamK_ has quit IRC[01:55:40] *** _AdamK_ has joined #bittorrent[02:08:26] *** _AdamK_ has quit IRC[02:08:48] *** goussx has quit IRC[02:22:05] *** _AdamK_ has joined #bittorrent[02:35:51] *** goussx has joined #bittorrent[02:55:31] *** Switeck has quit IRC[03:09:30] *** Switeck has joined #bittorrent[03:18:18] *** Gottaname|Mobili has joined #bittorrent[03:27:55] *** goussx has quit IRC[03:34:26] *** multi-d has quit IRC[03:58:31] *** The_8472 has quit IRC[04:04:56] *** The_8472 has joined #bittorrent[04:26:39] *** goussx has joined #bittorrent[04:33:03] *** chelz has joined #bittorrent[04:54:27] *** Samual has quit IRC[06:52:04] *** MassaRoddel has quit IRC[06:53:14] *** Switeck has quit IRC[06:57:57] *** Gottaname|Mobili has quit IRC[07:02:04] *** kitsoran has quit IRC[07:40:40] <K`Tetch> http://ktetch.blogspot.com/2011/07/bittorrent-turns-10.html[08:16:12] *** thermal has quit IRC[08:18:28] *** thermal has joined #bittorrent[09:13:53] *** ygrek has joined #bittorrent[09:36:35] *** MassaRoddel has joined #bittorrent[09:58:03] *** chelz has quit IRC[10:06:24] *** jnpplf has joined #bittorrent[10:06:24] *** jnpplf has joined #bittorrent[10:12:31] *** KyleK_ has joined #bittorrent[11:24:24] *** Nolar has quit IRC[11:28:53] *** goussx has quit IRC[12:10:46] *** init0_ has joined #bittorrent[12:13:23] *** init0 has quit IRC[13:03:53] *** kitsoran has joined #bittorrent[15:20:53] *** MassaRoddel has quit IRC[17:37:16] *** goussx has joined #bittorrent[17:55:21] *** gde33 has quit IRC[18:06:25] *** btcod2 has joined #bittorrent[18:07:15] <btcod2> an interesting paper about bundling support in bittorrent [disclaimer: i'm NOT one of the authors] http://www.ida.liu.se/~nikca/papers/mascots11.pdf[19:00:15] <btcod2> in particular, the authors refer to the "disk writing algorithm", but i don't understand it well[19:09:43] *** burris has joined #bittorrent[19:13:41] <TheSHAD0W> btcod2: Some clients (including mine) don't allocate the whole file space at once, they fill it linearly, temporarily storing piece data in unoccupied spaces until the space is allocated at the end.[19:14:17] <TheSHAD0W> If you're writing a client, and you want it to be able to read incomplete downloads from other clients, you'll have to at least be able to move pieces to their proper places.[19:17:17] <btcod2> i see[19:20:53] <DeHackEd> avoids the long start-up of pre-allocation, avoids the fragmentation of sparse allocation (where supported)[19:22:50] *** mxs has quit IRC[19:22:55] *** mxs has joined #bittorrent[19:22:55] *** mxs has joined #bittorrent[19:23:16] *** traviscj_ has joined #bittorrent[19:23:44] <K`Tetch> http://news.slashdot.org/story/11/07/02/1557237/BitTorrent-Turns-10[19:25:25] *** traviscj has quit IRC[19:27:19] <The_8472> <DeHackEd> avoids the long start-up of pre-allocation <- lolwut? setLength doesn't take long on good file systems[19:27:36] <The_8472> and if you really need to you can write zeros to the files in the background[19:28:02] <The_8472> iow you can start downloading while still waiting for the allocation[19:33:09] <btcod2> the whole idea is to allocate some space for the file, in memory, before writing?[19:33:16] <btcod2> sorry, but i'm not familiar with the basic concepts[19:33:54] <The_8472> huh?[19:34:14] <The_8472> what are you referring to?[19:34:26] <btcod2> what is special about the disk writing algorithm?[19:34:39] <btcod2> what is the disk writing algorithm?[19:35:30] <DeHackEd> The_8472: bittornado does that...[19:35:38] <DeHackEd> thought I usually don't do it..[19:35:39] <DeHackEd> anyway[19:35:59] <The_8472> well, i assume it's referring to the mode where things aren't stored in place but in the order at which they arrive. and later sorted into the proper position[19:36:12] <btcod2> oh, i see[19:36:26] <btcod2> i still don't get it ...[19:37:00] <The_8472> which part of it?[19:37:13] <btcod2> what is the advantage of storing in the order they arrive?[19:37:27] <The_8472> the file doesn't take up the full space[19:37:31] <The_8472> until its complete[19:37:38] <The_8472> not really all that useful. but some people think they need it[19:37:39] <btcod2> in memory?[19:37:43] <The_8472> on the disk[19:37:58] <btcod2> on the hard drive? then, i * really * don't get it :D[19:38:18] <The_8472> what's not to get? the file is grown over time as you get more data[19:38:36] <btcod2> yes[19:39:02] <btcod2> but would someone start the download without having space for the whole content?[19:39:17] <The_8472> it involves some sorting the pieces into their final place, doing the sorting properly to keep the number of swaps down. that's the disk writing algorithm.[19:40:18] <btcod2> i see, interesting[19:40:53] <btcod2> i didn't know kind of overhead is significant !!![19:41:52] <The_8472> well, disk io is slow. so constantly sorting the entire file would cause lots of IO[19:42:35] <btcod2> interesting[19:42:55] <btcod2> but why not just reserving space for the whole file in the beginning ?[19:43:03] <btcod2> and then storing content in the right positions?[19:43:44] <The_8472> that's usually the better option. but incremental allocation can be of use for some fringe cases or people monkeying around with selective downloading[19:44:17] <btcod2> selective downloading?[19:44:29] <btcod2> you mean, downloading only parts of the file? like, parts of a bundle ?[19:44:41] <btcod2> i see .....[20:25:17] *** MassaRoddel has joined #bittorrent[20:58:14] *** Nolar has joined #bittorrent[20:58:14] *** Nolar has joined #bittorrent[20:58:33] *** `rafi_ has joined #bittorrent[21:17:12] *** Switeck has joined #bittorrent[21:56:33] <btcod2> is this incremental allocation documented anywhere?[21:58:46] *** freakazoid has joined #bittorrent[22:01:26] <The_8472> not sure. i think TheSHAD0W invented it?[22:01:39] <TheSHAD0W> Bram invented it.[22:01:51] <The_8472> oh? i thought tornado had it first[22:03:11] <TheSHAD0W> Um, wait.[22:03:33] <TheSHAD0W> You'll have to excuse me. My mind is going.[22:04:23] <btcod2> so, is there any document describing it?[22:05:59] <The_8472> it's rather simple if i remember correctly... write as they come in. sort into place if a position is reached that you already have[22:06:15] <The_8472> it's O(n) swaps if i recall correctly[22:16:33] <btcod2> interesting. thanks![22:56:07] *** gde33 has joined #bittorrent[23:01:41] *** ygrek has quit IRC[23:25:24] *** traviscj_ has quit IRC[23:39:43] <gde33> this made me laugh http://www.p2paccelerators.com/