June 29, 2010 
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June 29, 2010 NOTICE: This channel is no longer actively logged.
[00:15:46] <burris> hundreds of people a month get their bike stolen in sf bay area and post an ad looking for it on craigslist, some even say "my lock was cut" but nobody and I mean nobody bothers to say what kind of lock it was, just in case others might not want to meet the same fate[00:19:01] <scottwolchok> between bolt cutters and hacksaws, I don't think you can blame the locks[00:20:23] <The_8472> yeah, passive defense measures just don't cut it[00:20:43] <DWKnight> TF2 style sentries[00:20:50] <The_8472> a laser defense system with proximity sensors works nicely, few crooks wear protective glasses[00:22:02] <burris> I don't think a bolt cutter or hacksaw would be very effective against a good u-lock, those are usually forced off with a long lever or a car jack[00:22:49] <The_8472> you haven't seen a good bolt cutter then[00:22:50] <scottwolchok> oh, I thought the hacksaw was for the u-lock[00:22:55] <The_8472> they're about as tall as a person...[00:23:34] <burris> dunno the shank on my lock is 25mm hardened steel[00:24:08] <burris> from informally monitoring craigslist I'd say fully half of all bikes are stolen out of people's garages where they aren't locked up[00:24:12] <The_8472> well... a diamond coated saw might work for that[00:24:25] <The_8472> hehe, probably[00:24:29] <The_8472> why go for the hard targets[00:24:34] <burris> yeah, a gas powered angle grinder works wonders on those car boots too[00:24:48] <burris> just call Angle Grinder Man!![00:25:11] <The_8472> there are special counter-rotating grinders for the tough cases :)[00:25:56] <burris> http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/003745.html[00:26:10] <burris> unfortunately angle grinder man's page is gone and I don't feel like searching archive.org[00:31:07] <K`Tetch> quickest and easiest way is to just det-cord (slow) and burn through, just like the fake torch cutting on the A-team[00:31:49] <The_8472> sounds like thermite[00:32:40] <burris> I doubt it's quicker and easier than shimming someone's garage door open and riding off with whatever bike is inside[00:33:26] <K`Tetch> its a bit like thermite, yes, but it's in a sort of 'rope'.[00:34:04] <K`Tetch> I dunno burris, wrap it around, light the end, and 10-20 seconds later, done[00:36:08] <burris> but I already have otherwise useless cards in my wallet...[00:37:05] * klapaucjusz has just come back from dinner, had one digestive too much, and he's hoping he doesn't understand what the discussion is about.[00:37:21] <klapaucjusz> s/too much/too many/[00:37:45] <Switeck> a bike in the open someone comes along with a cutter of some kind to remove the lock and nobody notices?[00:38:13] * klapaucjusz prefers rollerblades.[00:39:07] <Switeck> unless you carry separate shoes...you into strap-ons?[00:39:32] <klapaucjusz> That's what backpacks are for.[00:40:24] <Switeck> I wouldn't have room for it all :P[00:41:40] <klapaucjusz> Off topic: what does GAAP stand for?[00:42:19] <klapaucjusz> As in "Oracle's non-GAAP operating profit"?[00:42:50] <klapaucjusz> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generally_Accepted_Accounting_Principles[00:43:41] <The_8472> so... non-gaap means black accounts and stuff? ^^[00:44:13] <klapaucjusz> Oracle Corporation today announced fiscal 2010 Q4 GAAP total revenues were up 39% to $9.5 billion, while non-GAAP total revenues were up 40% to $9.6 billion.[00:44:46] <Switeck> so they're a halfway corrupted company?[00:44:49] <Switeck> O.o[00:44:52] <klapaucjusz> http://www.oracle.com/us/corporate/press/081868[00:45:13] <klapaucjusz> Now... how is it that they're reporting Q4 revenue, when it's June?[00:45:34] <The_8472> fiscal quarters[00:45:43] <The_8472> they live on the accounting planet[00:45:48] <The_8472> with different seasons and stuff[00:46:09] <klapaucjusz> ?[00:46:52] <The_8472> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_quarter#United_States[00:47:22] <klapaucjusz> Oracle (NASDAQ: ORCL) is the world’s most complete, open, and integrated business software and hardware systems company.[00:48:13] <The_8472> yeah... press releases are written by marketing and management. so they consist of lies, twisted words and a grain of law-mandated truth[00:48:38] * klapaucjusz is unable to parse that sentence.[00:48:55] <klapaucjusz> (But then, he's not a native speaker of Anglo-Saxon.)[00:49:42] <The_8472> mh, which one?[00:50:15] <klapaucjusz> The one that I cited at 00:49, with the "integrated busuiness software and hardware systems company" cluster in it.[00:51:32] <The_8472> oh.. well, it might be a bit ambiguous, but i think you can expand it to[00:51:49] * klapaucjusz is trying to concentrate on a paper due by the end of May, and he's finding a lot of other fun things to do.[00:52:01] <klapaucjusz> (May 2010, of course.)[00:52:06] <The_8472> hah[00:52:20] <The_8472> well, as long as the deadline doesn't take its job serious and kills you ^^[00:52:54] <klapaucjusz> No, but I rather like the referee. He's been through 3 versions already, and my feeling is that this time he's willing to accept the next version.[00:53:08] <The_8472> Oracle (NASDAQ: ORCL) is a company that offers the world's most complete complete, open and integrated business software/hardware systems.[00:53:26] <klapaucjusz> I'm afraid that he won't remember what the paper is about ;-([00:53:46] <Switeck> That can be good[00:54:00] <klapaucjusz> Heh.[00:54:05] <The_8472> "oh yeah. reads good. i have no clue what it's about, but reads good. *thumbs up*"[00:54:10] <Switeck> can't very well grade you for getting a complex idea wrong if the instructor only knows you're using big words[00:54:42] <The_8472> you can get a bad grade because he's confused by the big words and you didn't explain them sufficiently from his perspective :P[00:54:48] <Switeck> Either the instructor has to admit stupidity or feign knowledge.[00:54:59] <klapaucjusz> In case anyone is interested, http://www.pps.jussieu.fr/~jch/software/babel/draft-chroboczek-babel-routing-protocol.html[00:55:11] <Switeck> (Either way you win XD )[00:55:36] <The_8472> oh, right. you wanted me to go over it, sry... got distracted by shiney[00:55:44] <klapaucjusz> Too late.[00:55:53] <The_8472> figures[00:55:54] <klapaucjusz> I'm hoping to send the new version in by dawn.[00:56:04] <klapaucjusz> (GMT+2)[00:56:12] <The_8472> same timezone ^^[00:56:25] <klapaucjusz> Germania?[00:56:46] <The_8472> yes[00:57:28] <klapaucjusz> Speaking about timezones... where are you, Switeck?[01:01:38] <klapaucjusz> Yes, indeed, the rumors are true: I resigned from Oracle a week ago (April 2nd). — James Gosling[01:01:44] <Switeck> I'm in CST[01:01:45] <klapaucjusz> http://nighthacks.com/roller/jag/entry/time_to_move_on[01:01:53] <Switeck> roughly 6 hours behind GMT[01:01:56] <klapaucjusz> NYC?[01:02:12] <Switeck> (I say roughly because of daylight savings time nonsense.)[01:02:20] <Switeck> NYC? heck no![01:02:28] <Switeck> I'm in a lot warmer place than that[01:02:54] <klapaucjusz> ?[01:03:08] <klapaucjusz> Florida? Can you count, then?[01:05:25] <K`Tetch> if people in florida could count, the last 10 years would be very different[01:05:47] <Switeck> feels like it's been more than 10 years since that silly election[01:15:16] *** Andrius has quit IRC[01:23:09] *** K`Tetch has quit IRC[01:29:36] *** K`Tetch has joined #bittorrent[01:47:25] *** flutra has quit IRC[03:00:02] *** lmfb has joined #bittorrent[03:08:37] *** lmfb has quit IRC[03:09:56] *** klapaucjusz has quit IRC[03:16:20] *** init0 has quit IRC[03:18:23] *** init0 has joined #bittorrent[04:01:47] *** The_8472 has quit IRC[04:05:59] *** The_8472 has joined #bittorrent[04:25:57] *** K`Tetch has quit IRC[04:30:57] *** K`Tetch has joined #bittorrent[04:30:57] *** K`Tetch has joined #bittorrent[04:34:56] *** goussx has quit IRC[05:44:07] *** goussx has joined #bittorrent[06:02:27] *** TheSHAD0W has quit IRC[06:11:23] *** TheSHAD0W has joined #bittorrent[06:14:30] *** TheSHAD0W has quit IRC[06:15:36] *** TheSHAD0W has joined 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#bittorrent[09:55:20] *** ygrek has joined #bittorrent[10:04:26] *** cgreco has quit IRC[10:04:31] *** cgreco has joined #bittorrent[10:04:31] *** cgreco has joined #bittorrent[10:54:21] *** Baos has joined #bittorrent[10:54:59] <Baos> Looking for a freebsd client that encrypts headers.[10:55:21] <Baos> as a minimum[10:59:25] <jonasl> Baos: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_BitTorrent_software[11:00:44] <jonasl> Baos: my tip is rtorrent if you want a ncurses interface and KTorrent if you are using X[11:08:23] *** ygrek has quit IRC[11:13:18] *** Andrius has joined #bittorrent[11:17:38] *** K`Tetch has quit IRC[11:22:55] *** K`Tetch has joined #bittorrent[12:20:17] *** The_8472 has quit IRC[12:23:54] *** The_8472 has joined #bittorrent[12:30:19] *** e-manuel has joined #bittorrent[12:31:40] *** e-manuel has quit IRC[12:51:00] *** e-manuel has joined #bittorrent[13:09:06] *** e-manuel has quit IRC[13:27:54] *** edigaryev has quit IRC[13:30:02] *** charles__ has joined #bittorrent[13:31:38] *** charles__ has quit IRC[13:31:38] *** charles__ has joined #bittorrent[13:32:23] *** charles__ is now known as charles[13:32:56] *** Baos has quit IRC[13:34:10] *** Baos has joined #bittorrent[13:59:25] *** ari-__-e has joined #bittorrent[14:02:48] *** ari-_-e has quit IRC[15:39:16] *** [diablo] has joined #bittorrent[15:48:58] *** edigaryev has joined #bittorrent[17:02:47] *** Gottaname has quit IRC[17:07:16] *** Gottaname has joined #bittorrent[17:15:42] <burris> pretty sad that in 2010, RFCs still have ascii graphics[17:17:30] <The_8472> the funny thing is, they usually are good enough[17:22:16] *** klapaucjusz has joined #bittorrent[17:36:53] *** Baos has quit IRC[17:43:43] <DeHackEd> well, you want RFCs with PNG links in `em or what?[17:48:15] <The_8472> i think he's thinking of something more modern. like... some sort of markup text[17:52:39] <DeHackEd> a languge of marked up hypertext?[17:54:40] <klapaucjusz> The_8472: RFCs are usually written in a dialect of XML.[17:54:45] <klapaucjusz> (nowadays)[17:55:27] <The_8472> and they still use ascii-art so it can be converted to the good old text display[18:14:02] *** klapaucjusz has quit IRC[18:16:03] *** klapaucjusz has joined #bittorrent[18:47:50] *** KyleK_ has joined #bittorrent[19:03:14] *** goussx has quit IRC[19:27:29] *** Andrius has quit IRC[19:41:45] *** klapaucjusz has quit IRC[19:45:03] *** goussx has joined #bittorrent[19:46:45] *** Firon has quit IRC[19:47:26] *** klapaucjusz has joined #bittorrent[19:47:52] *** Firon has joined #bittorrent[19:57:30] <burris> what percentage of iphone apps would you estimate are nothing more than canned websites or single site browsers?[19:57:53] <burris> or a glorified bookmark[19:59:35] <klapaucjusz> 93.7%[20:03:02] <The_8472> html5 canvas + svg + css 3 + local storage = you can write most trivial applications simply for the browser[20:03:28] <klapaucjusz> I don't think that's burris' point.[20:03:57] <klapaucjusz> It's a reasonable choice to write a simple app in Objective C rather than Javascript.[20:04:07] <The_8472> just saying that it could be written for the browser too[20:04:13] <The_8472> i.e. it wouldn't need an app[20:04:17] <klapaucjusz> Burris was referring to the common habit of making iPhone apps that are basically bookmarks.[20:04:37] <The_8472> paid apps?[20:04:40] <burris> yeah, apple who used to brag about how macos had fewer higher quality apps now brags about how there are 200k apps for iphone more than any other phone but most of those are just canned sites or bookmarks[20:04:51] <klapaucjusz> ...which makes a lot of sense from a marketing perspective.[20:05:34] <The_8472> from the marketing perspective eating children on live tv makes sense as long as you can put a positive spin on it[20:05:35] <burris> apple sucks, what huge fucking assholes they turned out to be[20:06:27] <The_8472> well, i think many people will have their "i told you so" sense tingling right now[20:06:52] *** ygrek has joined #bittorrent[20:07:12] <burris> mine has been tingling for a while, after they announced the ihpone sdk I was all over /. saying "it's going to be like itunes sdk, you'll have to sign a restrictive agreement and apple will veto anything they don't like" and people would jump down my throat for it[20:07:35] <burris> but its much worse than I imagined[20:07:36] <klapaucjusz> Heh.[20:07:39] <klapaucjusz> I beat you all.[20:08:00] <The_8472> well well. you know what? microsoft will bring an app store to windows 8![20:08:10] <The_8472> and i'm not kidding[20:08:11] <klapaucjusz> I've been slagging off Apple since I left the FreeType project when we were threatened with a lawsuit by Apple, and our best-beloved leader decided to give in.[20:08:35] <burris> you have to understand I've been a next/apple nut for a long time, I went to NeXT developer camp in '91 and have been doing objc/cocoa for literally 19 years[20:09:13] <klapaucjusz> The_8472: source?[20:09:23] <The_8472> well, it gives us hope then, if even those ensnared by the apple machinery can see the light[20:09:37] <The_8472> http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2010/06/leaked-windows-8-slides-an-app-store-for-windows-ie9-beta-in-august.ars[20:09:39] <burris> fortunately steve gave me the best line for why I don't write iphone/pad stuff: "[I] can't be at the mercy of a third party deciding if and when [my] enhancements will be made available to [my customers]."[20:10:12] <klapaucjusz> burris: ;-)[20:10:14] <burris> just because m$ is going to sell software with a built in store doesn't mean they're going to lock out all other methods of loading software onto windoze 8[20:10:16] <klapaucjusz> Or is that :-/[20:10:35] <burris> yeah what a huge fucking hippocrite steve jobs is[20:11:12] <The_8472> of course they won't. but they might still give some people a competetive advantage by including their software in the appstore while blocking others[20:11:12] <burris> I think an Apple/MS moderated store is a good idea as long as you can choose to get software from somewhere else[20:12:00] <The_8472> so app stores should be maintained by an independent 3rd party[20:12:29] <The_8472> otherwise you get conflicts of interest[20:12:34] <klapaucjusz> Hmm... how is an app store different from a Debian repository?[20:12:38] <burris> it doesn't matter as long as there is competition[20:13:28] <The_8472> or deals behind closed doors... like "steve, could you put my app on the front page and hide competitors on the end of the listing?"[20:14:10] <klapaucjusz> The_8472: you get that with an independent 3rd party too.[20:14:18] <The_8472> err[20:14:22] <The_8472> non-profit ofc[20:15:17] <klapaucjusz> Non-profit means you don't make favours for friends?[20:16:18] <The_8472> at least it's less likely that big companies can bribe their way with big deals through the system or whatever[20:16:42] <The_8472> <klapaucjusz> Hmm... how is an app store different from a Debian repository? <- i can specify a different repo url at any time if i want[20:17:00] <The_8472> not to mention that there is no marketing involved with the software[20:21:32] <klapaucjusz> My point, 8472, is that while some ways of organising software distribution are better than others, all can be used against the user.[20:22:00] <klapaucjusz> There's no silver bullet, we must educate our users about their rights.[20:22:04] <The_8472> well, and would you trust microsoft to not use it against user interests?[20:22:20] <klapaucjusz> How is that relevant to what I said above?[20:22:30] <klapaucjusz> Err, how does it contradict it?[20:22:41] <The_8472> it doesn't. i'm just saying...[20:23:07] <The_8472> what's wrong with the current situation anyway?[20:23:12] <The_8472> i can find all the software i need[20:24:08] <klapaucjusz> That's because you don't have a mother.[20:24:25] <burris> heh[20:24:39] <The_8472> huh? i do[20:25:33] <klapaucjusz> When mom sends me an e-mail saying "I need a piece of software to format some gantt charts for a stupid grant submission", I wish I could tell her "sudo apt-get install planner".[20:25:54] <klapaucjusz> Instead, I have to spend half an hour on the phone helping her install some stupid software gotten of a web site.[20:26:00] <mpl> klapaucjusz: if she had an n900 you could :)[20:26:32] <The_8472> a) remote management b) my mother is computer-literate c) i just send a link, all insallers are mostly the same[20:26:36] <klapaucjusz> And she's a high-class scientist.[20:31:45] <klapaucjusz> http://newteevee.com/2010/05/18/youporn-goes-html5-gets-on-the-ipad/[20:32:23] <The_8472> hail youporn ^^[20:32:29] <The_8472> for trolling apple[20:35:37] *** klapaucjusz has quit IRC[20:46:28] *** Ryushin has joined #bittorrent[20:50:14] <Ryushin> I'm currently research how to anonymous bittorrent. Based on what I've been reading, since the trackers are not encrypted, the ISPs could still track what you are downloading even though encryption is turned on.[20:50:39] <Ryushin> I was looking at oneswarm, but there are very few people using it.[20:51:28] <The_8472> uhm[20:51:42] <burris> traceability was a design decision because untraceability kills performance[20:51:45] <The_8472> even if you encrypt tracker traffic (HTTPS) it's not anonymous[20:51:52] <burris> and bittorrent is about performance[20:52:08] <The_8472> you simply have to join a swarm and then you see everyone's IPs[20:52:36] <The_8472> you don't even have to have the access an ISP has[20:52:38] <DWKnight> and tor-ifying it just kills performance down to uselessness[20:53:15] <The_8472> bittorrent-over-I2P might work if properly designed and enough people used it. but nobody does. and it would still cut your performance to 1/2 or 1/3rd[20:55:36] <Ryushin> I don't mind cutting my performance if it was fairly anonymous. But my ISP is starting to track everything. I can't even download shows that were broadcast on TV without them knowing. So Tor'ing it might be my only solution.[20:56:06] <DWKnight> I know at least some of us don't endorse or recommend using tor[20:56:15] <DWKnight> and I KNOW FOR SURE that they don't want it[20:56:30] <The_8472> Ryushin, are you certain it's your ISP?[20:56:39] <burris> don't use tor for BT, it can't handle the load and would make the network unavailable for people who really need it[20:56:45] <The_8472> because... usually ISPs have little interest in surveilling their customers[20:59:12] <Ryushin> Yea, I'm sure it's my ISP. They turned on something that could see everything that I was seeding.[20:59:25] <The_8472> and... how do you know that?[20:59:32] <Ryushin> So Tor is out. Going to have to find a proxy I guess.[20:59:51] <The_8472> https://www.ipredator.se/?lang=en[20:59:53] <Ryushin> Because I got sent a letter about what was being seeded from my computer.[21:00:03] <The_8472> lol[21:00:06] <The_8472> lololol[21:00:25] * DWKnight roffles[21:00:31] <The_8472> some media company did that, they send the latter to your ISP, your ISP sends it to you.[21:00:36] <Ryushin> Yea, well, the wife wasn't laughing.[21:00:46] <The_8472> *letter[21:00:58] <The_8472> your ISP isn't surveilling you with quite a high probability[21:01:05] <Ryushin> Qwest also stated it was their own monitoring tool that discovered it.[21:01:29] <DWKnight> then check the privacy clauses in your contract[21:02:26] <The_8472> well, qwest can't sue you. i assume they don't hold the copyrights to anything you're torrenting[21:02:47] <Ryushin> I think an anonymous proxy is the way to go now. Even if Qwest just forwarded the letter that's bad enough. Not to mention they turned off my service until I removed all the seeds.[21:02:49] <The_8472> in fact, they shouldn't have any business snooping into your data. if they don't have legal cause[21:03:32] <Ryushin> I agree that they should just keep a hands off approach, but just isn't the case any longer.[21:03:32] <The_8472> you should really check your contract[21:04:39] <Ryushin> Either way the wife was upset, so I can't take that chance any longer. Maybe I'll have my linux box start snooping for open proxies.[21:04:58] * The_8472 shrugs[21:05:45] <Ryushin> ipredator looks promising though.[21:06:08] <DWKnight> [4:03:23pm] <DWKnight> then check the privacy clauses in your contract <-- if the contract says they aren't allowed snooping like that, rake them over the coals for it[21:09:00] <The_8472> and any clauses that they are allowed to do that might even be bogus if your country has any decent privacy protections[21:12:04] <Ryushin> This is all well and good. I like it in theory. But It's best just to stay off the radar. So a proxy it is. Thanks for you help though. I wanted to make sure I was not missing something.[21:25:02] *** ygrek has quit IRC[21:31:28] *** Ryushin has quit IRC[21:54:15] *** Andrius has joined #bittorrent[22:00:56] *** Andrius has quit IRC[22:09:57] *** K`Tetch has quit IRC[22:13:36] *** KyleK_ has quit IRC[22:16:31] *** K`Tetch has joined #bittorrent[22:16:31] *** K`Tetch has joined #bittorrent[22:18:15] *** klapaucjusz has joined #bittorrent[22:27:20] *** KyleK_ has joined #bittorrent[22:32:11] *** DreadWingKnight has joined #bittorrent[22:35:23] *** DWKnight has quit IRC[23:18:48] *** ajaya has joined #bittorrent[23:49:37] *** KyleK_ has quit IRC[23:51:01] *** K`Tetch has quit IRC