June 20, 2010 
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June 20, 2010 NOTICE: This channel is no longer actively logged.
[01:05:48] *** WhatMan has quit IRC[01:41:08] *** Andrius has quit IRC[01:46:21] *** K`Tetch has joined #bittorrent[01:46:21] *** K`Tetch has joined #bittorrent[01:53:13] *** [diablo] has quit IRC[03:03:28] <TheSHAD0W> http://qdb.us/300067[03:05:50] <TheSHAD0W> Gah.[03:05:58] <TheSHAD0W> There's an 80 gig torrent I want to download...[03:06:08] <TheSHAD0W> It'd take me forever on this connection.[03:16:08] *** init0 has quit IRC[03:18:11] *** init0 has joined #bittorrent[03:45:23] *** chelz has joined #bittorrent[03:54:25] <K`Tetch> just be glad it's not dialup[03:54:43] * K`Tetch remembers the 'fun' days of downloading a 650mb ISO via dialup, using http[03:55:00] <K`Tetch> 3 solid days, flat out it took[04:03:03] *** The_8472 has quit IRC[04:07:12] *** The_8472 has joined #bittorrent[04:31:45] <alus> ah the few years there when CDs were out but cable modems were not[04:32:12] <alus> funny how CDs have gone through two generations since then and are pretty much irrelevant, but cable modems are nearly the same speed and are still critical[05:03:04] <TheSHAD0W> Probably because the cable *lines* haven't changed.[05:35:19] <K`Tetch> yeah, I was talking about that with Dale Heatherington a few months ago (he was the co-founder of Hayes)[05:36:27] <K`Tetch> trying to convice him to get back into the gane[05:36:37] <K`Tetch> (and hire me ;-)[05:45:02] *** ProperN[out] has joined #bittorrent[05:45:09] *** ProperN[out] has joined #bittorrent[05:48:45] *** ProperNoun has quit IRC[05:48:46] *** ProperN[out] is now known as ProperNoun[06:06:45] *** ari-__-e has joined #bittorrent[06:06:46] *** ari-_-e has quit IRC[06:28:40] *** edigaryev has joined #bittorrent[06:51:23] *** ProperNoun has quit IRC[06:54:48] *** ProperNoun has joined #bittorrent[06:54:55] *** ProperNoun has joined #bittorrent[07:25:01] *** ari-__-e is now known as ari-_-e[08:34:07] *** WhatMan has joined #bittorrent[09:12:51] *** Andrius has joined #bittorrent[09:17:36] *** ari-__-e has joined #bittorrent[09:19:51] *** ari-_-e has quit IRC[09:41:42] *** e-manuel has joined #bittorrent[09:44:25] *** e-manuel has quit IRC[09:44:34] *** e-manuel has joined #bittorrent[09:53:04] *** Andrius has quit IRC[10:00:43] *** e-manuel has quit IRC[10:00:55] *** e-manuel has joined #bittorrent[10:02:16] *** e-manuel has quit IRC[10:02:24] *** e-manuel has joined #bittorrent[10:10:00] *** MassaRoddel has joined #bittorrent[10:26:16] *** e-manuel has quit IRC[10:26:27] *** e-manuel has joined #bittorrent[10:27:51] *** e-manuel has quit IRC[10:28:00] *** e-manuel has joined #bittorrent[10:28:30] *** e-manuel has quit IRC[10:30:14] *** e-manuel has joined #bittorrent[10:31:50] *** e-manuel has quit IRC[10:32:55] *** e-manuel has joined #bittorrent[10:34:17] *** e-manuel has quit IRC[10:34:26] *** e-manuel has joined #bittorrent[10:34:55] *** e-manuel has quit IRC[11:02:36] *** chelz has quit IRC[11:52:52] *** ari-__-e is now known as ari-_-e[12:41:35] *** burris has quit IRC[12:45:41] *** ducch has joined #bittorrent[12:45:55] <ducch> anyone wants a TL and IPT invitation? pm[12:46:14] *** ducch has left #bittorrent[14:09:30] *** lioux has joined #bittorrent[14:09:42] *** K`Tetch has quit IRC[14:13:45] *** K`Tetch has joined #bittorrent[14:13:45] *** K`Tetch has joined #bittorrent[14:25:49] *** lioux has quit IRC[14:48:25] *** dandon has quit IRC[14:50:36] *** dandon has joined #bittorrent[15:01:13] *** TheSHAD0W has quit IRC[15:09:37] *** `rafi_ has joined #bittorrent[17:42:39] *** burris has joined #bittorrent[18:22:41] *** `rafi_ is now known as rafi_away[18:30:10] *** Andrius has joined #bittorrent[19:35:33] *** rafi_away has quit IRC[19:37:27] *** damogg has joined #bittorrent[19:39:34] <damogg> any python-coders in here with some insight into the bittorrent-client (version ~4.2.0) ?[19:43:16] *** uau has quit IRC[19:49:26] *** uau has joined #bittorrent[19:54:32] <damogg> does a standalone command-line executable exist to generate a torrent?[19:58:59] <mpl> damogg: btmakemetafile[19:59:12] <mpl> from the native python client package.[19:59:38] <mpl> among others.[20:00:52] <damogg> the python package seems to have some problem for me with the usage of the zope.interface[20:25:59] *** symptom has joined #bittorrent[20:26:17] <symptom> hello, does anyone know if comcast is still filtering bit torrent?[20:30:17] <DWKnight> depending on region and load[20:30:35] <symptom> oh, so they do it dynamically?[20:30:45] <symptom> or are there some regions they dont do it at all?[20:31:01] <DWKnight> some regions, and even some specific nodes within a region, are untouched[20:31:20] <DWKnight> others are filtered/throttled to death and back 4 times over[20:33:39] *** ngerakines has joined #bittorrent[20:33:54] <ngerakines> Hey folks. I'm working on a torrent tracker (open source, on GitHub) and now that its past the working prototype phase, I'm collecting requirements and feedback from the community and tracker operators on their experiences. If you've got a few minutes, please do answer some of the questions in this survey: http://bit.ly/al06aA[20:35:15] <The_8472> lol[20:35:16] <The_8472> survey[20:35:45] <ngerakines> really[20:35:55] <ngerakines> google docs is so much easier than asking people 1:1[20:36:39] <The_8472> probably, but it's also less likely to yield an answer[20:36:54] <ngerakines> yeah, totally true[20:40:45] * The_8472 for one finds it easier to answer questions in a 1:channel manner, since other people can correct me/add additional thoughts[20:44:01] <The_8472> ngerakines, no point in PMing me, we prefer things to be done openly here. anyway... if you have a question, just ask it ans someone reasonably knowledgeable will probably answer within minutes to hours[20:44:21] <ngerakines> sure[20:44:41] * The_8472 also points at echelog, channel gets logged, so you can read it on a website later[20:44:48] <ngerakines> Ok[20:45:37] <ngerakines> So, if I were to boil the entire thing into two questions, I'd ask: (a) How much impact do you think torrent trackers are capable of when it comes to shaping the swarm? and (b) What are your experiences running, developing or using various trackers?[20:47:16] <The_8472> a) for torrents using the private flag they are essential as they're the only peer source. for public torrents they provide a fast, compatible-with-practically-everyone entry point and also provide statistics (scrapes) that other ways of obtaining peers don't[20:47:50] <The_8472> you can say for public torrents they're the preferred initial peer source but not absolutely essential[20:48:19] <The_8472> if you mean controlling which peer contacts which other peer... then they play practically no role at all[20:48:22] <The_8472> due to PEX[20:49:17] <The_8472> b) my experience... i code for a bittorrent client, i talk to the operators of the biggest trackers of the planet and have looked a bit into the opentracker code (which is running on said trackers)[20:49:31] <ngerakines> yeah[20:51:39] <ngerakines> What are your thoughts on using ip based geo data to help determine peer lists at the tracker level?[20:52:11] <The_8472> a mildly amusing idea[20:52:35] <The_8472> because everyone seems to have the same idea.[20:53:02] <ngerakines> sure, it makes sense[20:53:33] <ngerakines> being able to incorporate clustering peers by region and ISP could be a big win in some situations[20:53:51] <The_8472> it's of little value due to several factors: 1. peer lists of clients can undergo massive churn, making the initial peer set just that... an initial set 2. PEX/DHT 3. the sweden effect... local peers are not necessarily the fastest peers. unless you live in a region where "international" traffic is capped and local traffic isn't[20:55:03] <ngerakines> sure, you wouldn't want to limit peer lists by region, just use it as an influencing factor when determining what peer lists to distribute to a given peer.[20:55:20] <The_8472> but in the japan-north america-US axis locality is of little relevance. some 100Mbit colocated server (aka seedbox) thousands of kilometers away will probably be faster than your neighbor[20:55:30] <ngerakines> When it comes to ISPs, I'd argue that its almost always faster to talk to someone in the same ISP in a region than not[20:55:51] <The_8472> latency is irrelevant to bittorrent[20:56:14] <ngerakines> well, latency is always relevant to network communication[20:56:28] <The_8472> not really[20:57:09] <The_8472> "Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway." —Andrew S. Tanenbaum[20:57:12] <ngerakines> if anything, I'd be concerned with an filterting that a given ISP would enforce. Should that be the case, then the peer lists distributed to a subset of peers could be worthless[20:57:47] *** damogg has quit IRC[20:58:56] <The_8472> <ngerakines> if anything, I'd be concerned with an filterting that a given ISP would enforce. <- huh?[20:59:27] <ngerakines> well, an isp decides to cap/throttle torrent traffic internally[21:00:19] <ngerakines> if peers a-n all know about eachother but they are subject to traffic shaping, their peer list is of less value than one that could be more diverse[21:00:19] <The_8472> ah well, yes. that's a different scenario, i already mentioned that: <The_8472> [...] unless you live in a region where "international" traffic is capped and local traffic isn't[21:00:25] <ngerakines> np[21:02:36] <ngerakines> for this project, there are 3 scenarios that I'm building against:[21:03:29] <ngerakines> (a) you want to quickly torrent some content to a select few people and once they've all got what they need, take it down. aka, I want to throw a tracker up on a slicehost slice for a few days to share a large zip of pictures with family spread across the country.[21:04:18] <ngerakines> (b) you've got a long-term tracker running with an evenly spread number of peers that may occasionally find new peers. aka, you are distributing something like a like distro or the like[21:04:59] <ngerakines> (c) you've got a company that uses bittorrent to distribute game patches whereby the behavior is that all of a sudden you'll find the tracker being hit by millions of peers and they all want their game updated asap[21:06:07] <ngerakines> (c ...) once a peer is done, they disconnect and there are never any perm seeders grown from peers, aka you have a fixed number of seeders[21:06:43] <The_8472> (a) could be done via DHT. (b) has no special requirements. maybe a few backup seeds if you want reliability (c) that's the interesting case[21:07:05] <ngerakines> yeah, I don't know much about the DHT model but I'm really interested in it[21:07:24] <ngerakines> the caveat to (a) is that if i'm sharing something personal / private with a select few then I wouldn't want anyone else to know about it[21:08:05] <The_8472> uhm. that's a bit of a problem, the best way would be encrypting the file in that case[21:08:44] <ngerakines> unless you avoid the dht[21:09:33] <K`Tetch> hey 8472 - wheres the website echelog is outputting to? I've probably missed a fair bit here the last week[21:10:16] <The_8472> http://lmgtfy.com/?q=echelog+%23bittorrent[21:14:27] <ngerakines> anyway, good feedback. Thanks much 8472. Sooner or later I'll bump into erdgeist and I'll pick his brain.[21:14:58] <The_8472> you can email him[21:15:09] <ngerakines> I don't have his email address.[21:15:30] <The_8472> http://erdgeist.org/arts/software/opentracker/ <- scroll down[21:16:34] <ngerakines> thanks again[21:17:42] *** dandon has quit IRC[21:20:43] *** ngerakines is now known as ngerakines|afk[21:43:20] *** tris has quit IRC[21:43:23] *** edigaryev has quit IRC[21:52:24] *** tris has joined #bittorrent[21:58:27] *** tris has quit IRC[22:02:54] *** tris has joined #bittorrent[22:05:49] <symptom> DWKnight, do you know which regions are throttled?[22:12:16] <DWKnight> nope[22:12:22] <DWKnight> it can change from hour to hour[22:16:04] *** ProperN[out] has joined #bittorrent[22:16:10] *** ProperN[out] has quit IRC[22:16:10] *** ProperN[out] has joined #bittorrent[22:18:26] *** ProperNoun has quit IRC[22:18:28] *** ProperN[out] is now known as ProperNoun[22:23:37] *** ProperN[out] has joined #bittorrent[22:23:44] *** ProperN[out] has joined #bittorrent[22:26:05] *** ProperNoun has quit IRC[22:26:06] *** ProperN[out] is now known as ProperNoun[22:40:15] *** symptom has quit IRC[22:43:35] *** K`Tetch has quit IRC[22:47:18] *** ProperNoun has quit IRC[22:48:13] *** K`Tetch has joined #bittorrent[22:48:13] *** K`Tetch has joined #bittorrent[22:52:44] *** burris has quit IRC[22:59:32] *** K`Tetch has quit IRC[23:03:43] *** K`Tetch has joined #bittorrent[23:03:43] *** K`Tetch has joined #bittorrent[23:59:12] *** TheSHAD0W has joined #bittorrent