June 16, 2010 
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June 16, 2010 NOTICE: This channel is no longer actively logged.
[01:28:29] <alus> The_8472: say you have a tiny DHT, where there are exactly as many peers as slots in the buckets, and everyone is responsive and exactly connected to each other[01:28:44] <alus> The_8472: then one new guy shows up.[01:29:00] <alus> The_8472: and an old peer does a lookup for his ID. will he ever be found?[01:30:35] <The_8472> buckets should be split then[01:30:44] <The_8472> someone's buckets anyway[01:30:53] <alus> on what event?[01:31:28] <The_8472> on him contacting one of the other nodes[01:31:54] <The_8472> especially when he does the bootstrap search[01:32:00] <The_8472> node-lookup for his own ID[01:32:09] <The_8472> this way he should find and contact his neighbors[01:32:17] <The_8472> which then have to split their local buckets to make room for him[01:36:45] <The_8472> the only case i can imagine where someone wouldn't get into anyone's routing table would be a heavily skewed node ID distribution[01:37:10] <The_8472> where the new node would be in nobody's local bucket[01:37:17] <The_8472> but even then he can _store_ on the DHT[01:37:25] <alus> how would that happen?[01:37:29] <The_8472> he just wouldn't get any lookups from other peers[01:37:53] <The_8472> in a _very small_ DHT (10 nodes tops) it could happen at random[01:38:03] <The_8472> everything bigger would require a shoddy implementation[01:38:26] <The_8472> but as i said, that wouldn't affect peer lists[01:38:40] <The_8472> since announces are pushed to other nodes, not stored on the node that announces itself[01:39:37] <alus> doesn't this last paragraph say the closest bucket grows indefinately? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kademlia#Joining_the_network[01:40:15] <The_8472> it does not grow[01:40:29] <The_8472> it gets split into 2 new buckets covering smaller portions of the keyspace[01:41:16] <The_8472> buckets have a fixed size[01:41:26] <The_8472> they just cover different bit-prefixes of the keyspace[01:41:34] <alus> so how does this 10 peer edge case occur?[01:42:38] <The_8472> all nodes are have an ID starting with the bits 11.....[01:42:46] <The_8472> no wait[01:42:48] <The_8472> it can't occur ^^[01:43:00] <The_8472> since the 0x bucket would be empty[01:44:02] <The_8472> so yes, any node joining a DHT should end up in someone's bucket[01:49:01] <The_8472> why do you ask?[01:53:16] <alus> someone asked me, and I didn't know the answer off-hand[01:53:44] <The_8472> well, the basic answer is: local buckets never are "full"[02:39:44] *** K`Tetch has joined #bittorrent[02:39:44] *** K`Tetch has joined #bittorrent[02:57:19] *** ajaya has quit IRC[02:58:52] *** K`Tetch has quit IRC[03:07:26] *** K`Tetch has joined #bittorrent[03:07:26] *** K`Tetch has joined #bittorrent[03:10:08] *** ProperN[out] has joined #bittorrent[03:10:16] *** ProperN[out] has quit IRC[03:10:16] *** ProperN[out] has joined #bittorrent[03:13:19] *** ProperNoun has quit IRC[03:13:22] *** ProperN[out] is now known as ProperNoun[03:16:10] *** init0 has quit IRC[03:18:24] *** init0 has joined #bittorrent[03:30:02] *** K`Tetch has quit IRC[03:35:48] *** K`Tetch has joined #bittorrent[03:35:48] *** K`Tetch has joined #bittorrent[03:39:11] *** lioux has joined #bittorrent[03:45:08] *** lioux has quit IRC[03:46:50] *** edigaryev has joined #bittorrent[04:02:51] *** The_8472 has quit IRC[04:06:54] *** The_8472 has joined #bittorrent[04:29:32] *** edigaryev has quit IRC[05:11:28] *** K`Tetch has quit IRC[05:12:05] *** BentMyWookie has quit IRC[05:14:44] *** BentMyWookie has joined #bittorrent[05:18:45] *** BentMyWookie has quit IRC[05:21:54] *** BentMyWookie has joined #bittorrent[05:41:31] *** K`Tetch has joined #bittorrent[05:41:31] *** K`Tetch has joined #bittorrent[05:55:04] *** MassaRoddel has quit IRC[06:58:32] *** WhatMan has quit IRC[07:10:55] *** Andrius has joined #bittorrent[07:20:49] *** MassaRoddel has joined #bittorrent[07:29:06] *** Kitsoran has quit IRC[07:48:39] *** ygrek has joined #bittorrent[07:50:39] *** ajaya has joined #bittorrent[08:08:20] *** K`Tetch has quit IRC[08:13:43] *** ajaya has quit IRC[08:35:33] *** goussx has quit IRC[09:06:11] *** goussx has joined #bittorrent[09:10:32] *** ygrek has quit IRC[09:27:35] *** edigaryev has joined #bittorrent[09:31:33] *** ProperN[out] has joined #bittorrent[09:31:44] *** ProperN[out] has joined #bittorrent[09:34:48] *** ProperNoun has quit IRC[09:34:50] *** ProperN[out] is now known as ProperNoun[10:00:26] *** WhatMan has joined #bittorrent[10:06:36] *** ygrek has joined #bittorrent[10:48:13] *** goussx has quit IRC[10:59:43] *** Andrius has quit IRC[11:02:12] *** ygrek has quit IRC[11:07:30] *** `rafi_ has joined #bittorrent[11:51:02] *** Andrius has joined #bittorrent[13:07:01] *** [diablo] has joined #bittorrent[13:27:33] *** `rafi_ has quit IRC[13:39:50] *** ygrek has joined #bittorrent[13:57:53] *** [diablo] has quit IRC[14:00:50] *** K`Tetch has joined #bittorrent[14:00:50] *** K`Tetch has joined #bittorrent[14:49:29] *** jnpplf has quit IRC[14:49:32] *** jnpplf has joined #bittorrent[14:49:32] *** jnpplf has joined #bittorrent[14:58:01] *** ygrek has quit IRC[15:51:51] *** transplant has joined #bittorrent[16:08:48] *** transplant has quit IRC[16:17:35] *** Kitsoran has joined #bittorrent[16:29:16] *** Licks has joined #bittorrent[16:29:37] <Licks> hi, i'm finding it impossible to download torrents, please can someone give me a hand?[16:44:36] *** Licks has quit IRC[16:44:58] *** Switeck has joined #bittorrent[18:46:06] *** transplant has joined #bittorrent[18:52:28] *** transplant has quit IRC[18:55:29] *** goussx has joined #bittorrent[18:56:09] <Switeck> PPPoE over Ethernet? Sounds like a Eastern European ISP...anyone have knowledge how to forward tat? http://forum.utorrent.com/viewtopic.php?id=78246[19:00:17] <TheSHAD0W> What's the guy's IP?[19:00:34] <TheSHAD0W> (Checked from his PC.)[19:01:46] <Switeck> I'm sure it's a LAN ip[19:02:16] <Switeck> but I'll ask[19:02:29] <TheSHAD0W> You'd be surprised.[19:02:48] <Switeck> not really[19:02:52] <TheSHAD0W> "Oh, you mean Norton Firewall blocks incoming?"[19:02:52] <Switeck> either it is or it isn't[19:03:08] <Switeck> Norton = somebody else's problem[19:05:31] <The_8472> PPPoE = he should have a ppp interface on his PC[19:05:37] <The_8472> if there is no router involved[19:05:51] <The_8472> the PPP interace should have a public IP, his lan interface obviously not[19:06:07] <The_8472> +f[19:06:34] <Switeck> If he's on Ethernet, from a jack in the wall of his place, chances are decent there's a hidden router...[19:07:59] <Switeck> It could be apartments sharing a fast fiber line via router+Ethernet. Why (or HOW!) it's using PPPoE, I do not know. :P[19:09:32] <The_8472> that seems... unlikely[19:10:27] *** ygrek has joined #bittorrent[19:28:48] *** ari-__-e has joined #bittorrent[19:31:54] *** ari-_-e has quit IRC[19:33:38] *** ari-__-e is now known as ari-_-e[19:59:33] *** RubberMonkey has joined #bittorrent[20:13:08] *** KyleK_ has joined #bittorrent[20:40:45] *** NoodleDragon has joined #bittorrent[20:40:45] *** Kitsoran has quit IRC[20:40:48] *** NoodleDragon is now known as Kitsoran[20:45:15] *** [diablo] has joined #bittorrent[21:21:09] *** ProperN[out] has joined #bittorrent[21:21:17] *** ProperN[out] has joined #bittorrent[21:25:28] *** ProperNoun has quit IRC[21:25:35] *** ProperN[out] is now known as ProperNoun[21:41:11] *** RubberMonkey has quit IRC[22:10:37] *** K`Tetch has quit IRC[22:10:46] *** K`Tetch has joined #bittorrent[22:10:46] *** K`Tetch has joined #bittorrent[22:31:20] *** ygrek has quit IRC[22:34:20] *** edigaryev has quit IRC[22:34:30] *** KyleK_ has quit IRC[22:41:50] <TheSHAD0W> http://www.prisonplanet.com/new-bill-gives-obama-kill-switch-to-shut-down-the-internet.html[22:42:55] *** klapaucjusz has joined #bittorrent[22:44:54] *** ProperN[out] has joined #bittorrent[22:45:00] *** ProperN[out] has quit IRC[22:45:00] *** ProperN[out] has joined #bittorrent[22:45:04] <Switeck> sounds like bullshit[22:47:46] *** ProperNoun has quit IRC[22:47:47] *** ProperN[out] is now known as ProperNoun[23:13:01] *** ivan` has quit IRC[23:13:41] *** ivan` has joined #bittorrent[23:14:56] *** klapaucjusz has quit IRC[23:21:36] <K`Tetch> its bill S.3480[23:22:02] <Switeck> Congress-critters haven't figured out what the internet is yet.[23:22:14] <Switeck> so there's a chance that will pass >:([23:22:44] <DeHackEd> You're not looking at this right. This is the right way: Hey, they're installing a kill switch. We KNOW it exists, let's find it.[23:23:09] <Switeck> your ISP could always pull the plug[23:23:28] <Switeck> that's not the issue...the issue is Congress/government wants to have their hand on the switch[23:23:58] <DeHackEd> whatever. Internet3 will just come out. IPv6 over pringles cans. Ad hoc internet[23:24:40] * K`Tetch added it to his govtrack account, will see what happens later[23:24:52] <DeHackEd> link?[23:25:13] <DeHackEd> Curiosity, both to see it and I don't know what govtrack is.[23:25:36] <K`Tetch> govrtack.us[23:25:43] <K`Tetch> govtrack.us[23:25:59] <K`Tetch> it has all sorts of bill related info[23:26:02] <DeHackEd> oh great. javascript required...[23:26:03] <K`Tetch> you can also set 'trackers'[23:26:20] <K`Tetch> so I have a bunch of bills tracked, plus my rep and senators[23:26:48] <K`Tetch> and each night, if anything's matched my tracked items, it tells me in an email that night[23:27:19] <K`Tetch> You are currently monitoring: Sen. Isakson [R-GA], Sen. Chambliss [R-GA], Rep. Marshall [D-GA8], H.R. 4098: Secure Federal File Sharing Act, H.R. 801: Fair Copyright in Research Works Act, S. 379: Performance Rights Act, H.R. 848: Performance Rights Act, S. 1670: Satellite Television Modernization Act of 2009, H.R. 2196: Design Piracy Prohibition Act, S. 1145: Webcaster Settlement Act of 2009, S. 1466: Trade Enforcement Act of 2009, H.R. 496: Trade Enf[23:27:27] *** RubberMonkey has joined #bittorrent[23:27:28] <K`Tetch> etc[23:37:51] <K`Tetch> very handy, if for nothing more than keeping track of your own elected representatives[23:41:39] <DeHackEd> I can't help but feel that this is a step towards making Die Hard 4 happening for real[23:41:51] <DeHackEd> except the car-into-a-helicoptor bit, but you can't win `em all[23:48:50] <K`Tetch> car into a helicopterwasn't as bad as the semi V F22[23:49:54] *** MassaRoddel has quit IRC[23:54:33] <mpl> sounds like I missed a gem of a movie...