June 12, 2018 
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June 12, 2018 [00:00:17] <dyl> No issues with glfwInit or checking vulkan support...[00:08:40] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host86-157-70-142.range86-157.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[00:12:22] *** slime <slime!~slime73@24.215.81.93> has joined ##vulkan[00:24:57] *** ector <ector!~asdf@ua-85-224-236-175.bbcust.telenor.se> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[00:32:45] *** mauz555 <mauz555!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has joined ##vulkan[00:34:19] *** Ralith_ <Ralith_!~ralith@c-24-143-116-108.customer.broadstripe.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[00:35:39] *** Ralith_ <Ralith_!~ralith@c-24-143-116-108.customer.broadstripe.net> has joined ##vulkan[00:38:21] <ColaEuphoria> Are there any sub-$100 project boards like the Raspberry Pi that support Vulkan?[00:39:21] <ratchet_freak> you could try and implemnt a vulkan driver in the rPi, thouhg I'm not sure the capability is all there[00:40:55] <ColaEuphoria> ratchet_freak, no small hardware SoCs that support Vulkan natively yet? :/[00:41:55] <ratchet_freak> you can check the list of conformant products: https://www.khronos.org/conformance/adopters/conformant-products[00:42:39] <ratchet_freak> the nintendo switch can run vulkan...[00:43:02] <ColaEuphoria> ratchet_freak, yeah, though i was hoping for something a bit more project-friendly[00:43:44] <ratchet_freak> quite a few android deviced are also conformant[00:55:06] *** mauz555 <mauz555!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[00:55:33] *** mauz555 <mauz555!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has joined ##vulkan[01:00:17] *** mauz555 <mauz555!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[01:03:24] *** mauz555 <mauz555!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has joined ##vulkan[01:14:20] *** mauz555 <mauz555!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[01:14:48] *** mauz555 <mauz555!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has joined ##vulkan[01:19:22] *** mauz555 <mauz555!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[01:24:42] *** mauz555 <mauz555!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has joined ##vulkan[01:30:31] *** mauz555 <mauz555!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[01:30:50] *** mauz555 <mauz555!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has joined ##vulkan[01:40:52] *** mauz555_ <mauz555_!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has joined ##vulkan[01:41:01] *** mauz555 <mauz555!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[01:42:20] *** hs_ <hs_!~hs_@2601:600:877f:ffdd:507f:ac5d:1667:c1a6> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[01:54:00] *** hs_ <hs_!~hs_@2601:600:877f:ffdd:b939:5f39:2b5b:ef64> has joined ##vulkan[02:11:50] *** salamanderrake_ <salamanderrake_!~quassel@cpe-24-165-202-54.neo.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[02:12:41] *** salamanderrake <salamanderrake!~quassel@cpe-24-165-202-54.neo.res.rr.com> has joined ##vulkan[02:29:51] *** Guest4630 <Guest4630!4d3b9548@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.77.59.149.72> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[02:32:24] *** salamanderrake <salamanderrake!~quassel@cpe-24-165-202-54.neo.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[02:34:16] *** salamanderrake <salamanderrake!~quassel@cpe-24-165-202-54.neo.res.rr.com> has joined ##vulkan[02:36:33] *** salamanderrake <salamanderrake!~quassel@cpe-24-165-202-54.neo.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[02:44:27] *** ratchet_freak <ratchet_freak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7nu9uak27g24h0.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)[02:47:48] *** mauz555_ <mauz555_!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[02:48:20] *** salamanderrake <salamanderrake!~quassel@cpe-24-165-202-54.neo.res.rr.com> has joined ##vulkan[02:53:06] *** mauz555 <mauz555!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has joined ##vulkan[03:01:39] <dyl> ColaEuphoria I think some of the Intel Compute Sticks have Vulkan support.[03:01:50] <dyl> Not sure if it's just compute though.[03:02:30] <dyl> Probably just compute.[03:02:58] <dyl> ColaEuphoria I would say try a Switch, or a Shield, or some small/cheap android device.[03:03:10] <dyl> But it looks like ~$200 is more where you'll find what you're looking for.[03:03:30] <dyl> Switch is kind of right out, as the dev kit is a lot more.[03:05:59] <dyl> ColaEuphoria if you want to do something project friendly, you could use an android device or cheap small laptop with USB and get an adapter for USB -> PCI/IC2?[03:08:01] <ColaEuphoria> dyl, thanks[03:08:14] <dyl> Chances are you already have *something* that will work.[03:08:44] <ColaEuphoria> dyl, I do, though I was looking for something smaller[03:08:49] <dyl> Hmm. My BeagleBoard Black has a PowerVR.[03:08:55] <dyl> Not sure if it's compatible but that's a possibility.[03:09:14] <dyl> Wait, does it?[03:09:40] <dyl> Ah yeah they all do, check the spec sheets?[03:09:45] <dyl> I love my beagleboards for projects.[03:12:13] <dyl> Ah nope, Vulkan landed in PowerVR series6.[03:12:24] <dyl> The beagleboards have TI Sitara SOCs which have series5.[03:13:30] <dyl> I'd use an android phone or something.[03:13:35] <chrisf> dyl: ~all the low cost SBCs have barely adequate GLES2 GPUS[03:13:47] <dyl> Yeah, looks like it's just not a focus.[03:14:40] * dyl reverts to seething and grimacing at this bizarre issue with swapchain recreation/resizing.[03:15:05] <dyl> I don't understand how or why, but GLFW is just distorting the underlying MTLView used for MoltenVK without resizing it in any way.[03:16:43] <chrisf> dyl: why the weird assumptions about compute sticks having only vulkan compute?[03:16:47] <dyl> windowDidResize seemingly doesn't even *attempt* to actually change anything?[03:16:57] <dyl> chrisf idk, I could just see the minimum work driver-wise being done.[03:17:09] <dyl> Even though some art intended for TVs and such.[03:18:01] <chrisf> dyl: is the same gpu as used in their bigger products[03:18:11] *** MrFlibble <MrFlibble!MrFlibble@2.122.47.217> has quit IRC (Quit: MrFlibble)[03:20:24] <chrisf> (just the baby version)[03:20:27] <dyl> Well, looks like resizing a vulkan window in glfw simply doesn't work.[03:20:43] <chrisf> fix glfw?[03:20:49] <dyl> Yeah, considering it.[03:20:59] <dyl> Just have to finish some stuff for tomorrow so this'll be on low priority.[03:21:09] <dyl> I just wanted to figure out why this was happening/if I could fix it.[03:21:26] <dyl> For non-GLFW_NO_API (aka OpenGL), glfw uses [window->context.nsgl.object update] on a windowDidResize.[03:21:29] <dyl> For Vulkan it does nothing.[03:22:02] <chrisf> oh, you're in weirdo mac land[03:22:09] * chrisf backs away slowly[03:22:39] <dyl> Yes.[03:23:06] <dyl> The weird thing is that in standard Metal, you juse have a drawableSizeWillChange on an MTKViewDelegate, the actual *updating* is more or less automatic.[03:23:19] <dyl> So, there's some kind of weirdness in the intermediate view GLFW uses for event handling.[03:23:23] <dyl> The weirdest part:[03:23:35] <dyl> My demo binary works running everywhere *except* under Xcode's LLVM.[03:23:48] <dyl> There, glfwGetRequiredInstanceExtensions returns nothing.[03:23:49] <dyl> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯[03:26:20] <dyl> And I needed that in order to inspect the views/layers and determine what's up so... oh well I guess.[03:31:12] <chrisf> dyl: the driver is not /ever/ required to produce SUBOPTIMAL[03:31:18] <dyl> I know[03:31:24] <dyl> But it does, when it detects a resize.[03:31:35] <chrisf> on some platforms[03:31:50] <dyl> The problem is that GLFW doesn’t ever cause any because it never touches the backing extent rect at all[03:32:03] <dyl> I went through the spec and MoltenVK source.[03:32:18] <dyl> acquireImageKHR will produce a SUBOPTIMAL when there’s a resize.[03:32:29] <dyl> present won’t produce anything.[03:32:49] <dyl> I can fix this in GLFW I just don’t have time tonight.[03:35:44] <dyl> CAMetalLayer, which backs an MTKView, has a drawableSize one can update.[03:35:47] <dyl> That’s the ticket.[03:36:41] <dyl> (In weird Mac land speech, a view is composed of some number of layers.)[03:36:56] <dyl> (Conceptually a layer is like a surface + framebuffer (or just the latter)).[03:37:08] <dyl> It’s an “image” basically.[03:38:02] <dyl> The view used in GLFW just needs to specify this as the layerClass to ensure it’s the right backing, and then update the drawableSize as appropriate.[03:38:20] <dyl> It’s *probably* at most a day of work to get fixed up and PRd.[03:40:52] <dyl> chrisf: did you hear Apple is already marking OpenGL/CL as deprecated next release :|[03:40:56] *** mauz555 <mauz555!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[03:41:24] *** mauz555 <mauz555!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has joined ##vulkan[03:42:59] *** cramalho <cramalho!~cramalho@179.190.254.211> has joined ##vulkan[03:43:05] *** Ekho <Ekho!~Ekho@unaffiliated/ekho> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[03:43:29] <chrisf> better in ##opengl[03:48:29] <dyl> Well, it's going to result in a lot of MoltenVK migration for those who aren't using 3rd party engines, I suspect.[03:48:39] <dyl> Good: more stress testing :p.[03:48:58] <dyl> Though I suspect most game developers are just using engines which already have Metal backends.[03:49:38] *** cheakoirccloud <cheakoirccloud!uid293319@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dtlddzzngyrrhahu> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[03:49:46] *** Ekho <Ekho!~Ekho@unaffiliated/ekho> has joined ##vulkan[03:50:42] *** mauz555 <mauz555!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[03:55:37] <chrisf> dyl: and the iceberg of stuff that's no longer being updated?[04:01:43] <dyl> Hm?[04:12:27] *** cramalho <cramalho!~cramalho@179.190.254.211> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[04:14:13] *** cramalho <cramalho!~cramalho@179.190.254.211> has joined ##vulkan[04:18:32] *** xissburg <xissburg!~xissburg@unaffiliated/xissburg> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)[04:55:47] *** mandeep_ <mandeep_!~mandeep@unaffiliated/mandeepb> has joined ##vulkan[04:59:26] *** mandeep_ <mandeep_!~mandeep@unaffiliated/mandeepb> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[05:04:22] *** mandeep <mandeep!mandeep@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mandeepb> has joined ##vulkan[05:05:03] <dyl> It’s satisfying how any GL code tends to start slow and ramp up.[05:05:33] <dyl> Getting to a triangle took forever. Getting from there to many triangles with buffers took a small fraction of the time.[05:52:05] *** slime <slime!~slime73@24.215.81.93> has quit IRC (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)[07:04:46] *** mandeep_ <mandeep_!mandeep@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mandeepb> has joined ##vulkan[07:08:09] *** mandeep <mandeep!mandeep@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mandeepb> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[07:15:30] <dyl> Unable to allocate 1 descriptors of type VK_DESCRIPTOR_TYPE_UNIFORM_BUFFER from pool 0x1a. This pool only has 0 descriptors of this type remaining.[07:15:32] * dyl tears hair out.[07:22:10] *** mandeep__ <mandeep__!~mandeep@unaffiliated/mandeepb> has joined ##vulkan[07:24:21] *** mandeep_ <mandeep_!mandeep@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/mandeepb> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[07:26:25] *** noizex <noizex!~noizex@solitary.ninja> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[07:31:45] *** nsf <nsf!~nsf@jiss.convex.ru> has joined ##vulkan[07:54:00] *** Deluxe <Deluxe!~Deluxe@212.4.150.151> has joined ##vulkan[07:58:23] *** Deluxe <Deluxe!~Deluxe@212.4.150.151> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[08:14:45] *** kasumi-owari <kasumi-owari!~kasumi-ow@ftth-213-233-237-007.solcon.nl> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)[08:15:19] *** Fats <Fats!fats@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/fats> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[08:16:33] *** kasumi-owari <kasumi-owari!~kasumi-ow@ftth-213-233-237-007.solcon.nl> has joined ##vulkan[08:16:33] *** Fats <Fats!fats@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/fats> has joined ##vulkan[08:19:46] *** mauz555 <mauz555!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has joined ##vulkan[08:20:20] *** ville_ <ville_!~ville@37-33-242-108.bb.dnainternet.fi> has joined ##vulkan[08:20:37] *** Yaniel <Yaniel!yaniel@unaffiliated/yaniel> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[08:22:23] *** ville <ville!~ville@87-93-69-243.bb.dnainternet.fi> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[08:22:24] *** ville_ is now known as ville[08:27:08] *** mauz555 <mauz555!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)[08:32:09] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host86-153-157-230.range86-153.btcentralplus.com> has joined ##vulkan[08:38:14] *** Guest4630 <Guest4630!4d3b9548@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.77.59.149.72> has joined ##vulkan[08:38:47] *** mauz555 <mauz555!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has joined ##vulkan[08:40:55] *** ratchet_freak <ratchet_freak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7nu9uak27g24h0.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has joined ##vulkan[08:41:11] *** grouse <grouse!~grouse@83-233-9-2.cust.bredband2.com> has joined ##vulkan[08:43:29] *** mauz555 <mauz555!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[08:45:12] *** ratchet_freak <ratchet_freak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7nu9uak27g24h0.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[08:53:02] *** mauz555 <mauz555!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has joined ##vulkan[08:58:29] *** mauz555 <mauz555!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)[09:08:22] *** thany <thany!~thany@188.75.83.82> has joined ##vulkan[09:10:56] *** mauz555 <mauz555!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has joined ##vulkan[09:14:08] <thany> hi all, I get a warning from a validator layer that I don't expect that, I do not get this warning in macos, android, ios, but in linux i get it, I try to allocate depth stencil image, and I get this "Mapping an image with layout VK_IMAGE_LAYOUT_UNDEFINED can result in undefined behavior if this memory is used by the device. Only GENERAL or PREINITIALIZED should be used"[09:15:57] *** mauz555 <mauz555!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)[09:20:32] <neure> how was the memory allocated / mapped?[09:20:50] <neure> and what do you think you are doing when you map image with undefined layout?[09:22:39] <thany> this is exactly like SaschaWilliam except the memory is shared between images and a buffer[09:23:02] <neure> i havent looked much at saschas code[09:23:13] <neure> the memory is aliased?[09:23:39] <neure> for the image to be useful for anything, you need some other image layout than undefined[09:24:13] <thany> I having a warning about this coallocation aliasing, but I have aligned the memory with max of all alignment limits[09:24:30] <neure> "If it is VK_IMAGE_LAYOUT_UNDEFINED, then the contents of the data are considered to be undefined, and the transition away from this layout is not guaranteed to preserve that data"[09:24:55] <neure> how is the memory used for buffer / image?[09:25:23] <neure> do you need to map the image memory?[09:25:46] <neure> or is the image memory mapped just because it is in same memory as the buffer?[09:28:13] <thany> I have a memory allocater that place objects(buffer/image) in the aligned offsets, accourding to the best practices (in nvidia document) i have One memory in device and other in the host, and I co-allocate all of the objects in a same memory[09:28:38] *** mauz555 <mauz555!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has joined ##vulkan[09:30:07] <thany> its code is here: https://github.com/Hossein-Noroozpour/vulkust/blob/master/vulkust/src/vulkan/memory.rs[09:31:13] <thany> but It gonna take time to read it, I don't want that[09:31:32] <neure> im just trying to understand why you have buffer and image in same memory[09:31:58] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host86-153-157-230.range86-153.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[09:32:16] <neure> buffers are often CPU visible, while images are not so often[09:32:48] <neure> I would allocate separate memory for CPU visible and non-visible uses[09:33:20] <neure> although if you have integrated, same memory for CPU and GPU, then they could end up in same heap[09:33:35] *** mauz555 <mauz555!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[09:34:11] <Lymia> On Intel integrated, there's literally only one memory type[09:34:29] <neure> yeah, but you can still make separate memory allocations[09:34:40] <neure> you should not map memory that you dont need to map[09:34:55] <Lymia> Fair.[09:35:19] <neure> if you do need to map the memory, then it is a different question though[09:35:43] <neure> did I understand correctly that buffer and image are in same memory, but different areas? so not real aliasing[09:36:09] <thany> I don't exactly get it what do you mean by map? do you mean "vkMapMemory"?[09:36:31] <thany> our allocating a memory[09:37:19] <neure> so you are not calling vkMapMemory()?[09:37:26] <thany> no[09:37:37] <neure> okay that explains[09:38:09] <thany> because it is a gpu located memory and I'm using it for depth-stencil[09:39:16] <neure> I think the error message language can be a bit confusing here[09:39:49] *** mauz555 <mauz555!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has joined ##vulkan[09:39:55] <thany> but another question comes here, why do you have concern about vkMapMemory (because in intel stuff we have one memory)[09:40:22] <neure> I read the message literally and thought it was about vkMapMemory()[09:40:28] <neure> My mistake[09:41:34] <neure> where do create the image?[09:42:34] <thany> mmm! before the buffers, at very initialization[09:43:15] <neure> URL to the code line would be handy ;)[09:45:13] <thany> do not read it takes time, I merely give it because of showing the way of co-allocating objects(image/buffer)[09:48:47] <thany> so I think I can safely ignore the warnings, am I right?[09:50:15] *** Yaniel <Yaniel!yaniel@unaffiliated/yaniel> has joined ##vulkan[09:51:07] <neure> It does not take time if you point me to the exact location where you created the image[09:51:33] <neure> I think you can ignore that warning for now[09:51:47] <neure> ideally it would be always good to fully understand each warning[09:52:37] <neure> Then there is https://github.com/KhronosGroup/Vulkan-LoaderAndValidationLayers/issues/1466[09:53:15] <thany> oh ok, it starts here https://github.com/Hossein-Noroozpour/vulkust/blob/master/vulkust/src/vulkan/image/view.rs#L15, then https://github.com/Hossein-Noroozpour/vulkust/blob/master/vulkust/src/vulkan/image/mod.rs#L17[09:54:25] <thany> the the memory allocate in here : https://github.com/Hossein-Noroozpour/vulkust/blob/master/vulkust/src/vulkan/memory.rs#L167[09:55:20] *** Deluxe <Deluxe!~Deluxe@2001:67c:1220:80e:e9:1d2:f14f:e47f> has joined ##vulkan[09:56:49] <neure> Why VK_IMAGE_USAGE_TRANSFER_SRC_BIT ?[09:57:16] <neure> https://github.com/Hossein-Noroozpour/vulkust/blob/ecad5d8426482f07b922ac0ca413950323c8a88f/vulkust/src/vulkan/image/view.rs#L34[09:58:53] <thany> this is exactly like sascha examples be cause it is being used as stencil and depth[09:59:21] <neure> I do not understand how transfer src is related to that[09:59:32] <neure> can you point me to that example?[09:59:53] *** Deluxe <Deluxe!~Deluxe@2001:67c:1220:80e:e9:1d2:f14f:e47f> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[10:00:28] <neure> which one of his examples?[10:00:37] <thany> https://github.com/SaschaWillems/Vulkan/blob/master/base/vulkanexamplebase.cpp#L1982[10:00:41] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!c351a8d8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.195.81.168.216> has joined ##vulkan[10:01:04] <thany> this the base for all of his examples[10:02:13] <neure> I see he also has transfer src[10:02:16] <neure> I will ask him why[10:02:45] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host86-153-157-230.range86-153.btcentralplus.com> has joined ##vulkan[10:02:55] <thany> I think it is taking your time, thanks alot, I think i can ignore it![10:03:32] <neure> I do want to fully understand these things so I dont mind :)[10:07:15] <neure> FYI: https://github.com/SaschaWillems/Vulkan/issues/492[10:09:44] <neure> "I still use a vkQueueWaitIdle after submitting a frame in the example base class" - somewhat nasty shortcut[10:14:03] *** mandeep__ <mandeep__!~mandeep@unaffiliated/mandeepb> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[10:17:01] *** thany <thany!~thany@188.75.83.82> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[10:35:09] <neure> thany, this could be the validation function: https://github.com/googlesamples/vulkan-basic-samples/blob/e3d22673fb10091bc28e23b40053763010382d9b/layers/buffer_validation.cpp#L2922[10:35:35] <neure> "Iterate over all bound image ranges and verify that for any that overlap the map ranges, the layouts are VK_IMAGE_LAYOUT_PREINITIALIZED or VK_IMAGE_LAYOUT_GENERAL"[10:36:25] *** mauz555 <mauz555!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[10:36:39] <neure> Are you sure you don't map any memory?[10:37:02] <neure> How else do you update your buffer?[10:37:20] *** thany <thany!~thany@188.75.83.82> has joined ##vulkan[10:37:30] *** sp3ctrum <sp3ctrum!~textual@77.210.174.169> has joined ##vulkan[10:38:39] <neure> I think you could be mapping the whole memory somewhere, for the purposes of updating buffer, and this is causing the warning. If you change the map to only include buffer region, and specifically exclude image region of the memory, you should be able to avoid this warning.[10:39:51] <neure> However I think this warning is indeed somewhat questionable, because image memory could be persistently mapped, while it is only accessed while the image layout is valid for CPU access.[10:42:39] <neure> validation layer might not know when CPU is or is not accessing the memory, so basically it is just weak warning along the lines: "If you were accessing memory right now with CPU, that would be bad. But if you are not accessing memory right now with CPU, then it is okay and you can ignore this."[10:43:02] *** lostgoat_ <lostgoat_!~quassel@40.ip-167-114-115.net> has quit IRC (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)[10:44:09] *** lostgoat <lostgoat!~quassel@40.ip-167-114-115.net> has joined ##vulkan[11:03:12] *** lostgoat <lostgoat!~quassel@40.ip-167-114-115.net> has quit IRC (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)[11:04:24] *** lostgoat <lostgoat!~quassel@40.ip-167-114-115.net> has joined ##vulkan[11:12:21] *** rotaerk <rotaerk!~rotaerk@ender.afternet.org> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[11:17:24] *** rotaerk <rotaerk!~rotaerk@ender.afternet.org> has joined ##vulkan[11:19:41] *** ville <ville!~ville@37-33-242-108.bb.dnainternet.fi> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)[11:25:59] *** kuldeep <kuldeep!~kuldeep@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[11:26:28] *** kuldeep <kuldeep!~kuldeep@unaffiliated/kuldeepdhaka> has joined ##vulkan[11:29:43] *** sp3ctrum <sp3ctrum!~textual@77.210.174.169> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[11:48:15] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host86-153-157-230.range86-153.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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AMD broke their Spirv compiler again[14:41:36] <sharpneli> Previously it crashed if you had const vec3 anywhere in the shader code[14:41:45] <sharpneli> Now it crashes again, but for a different reason.[14:41:51] <sharpneli> Time to dig in and to workarounds yet again[14:44:40] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host86-153-157-230.range86-153.btcentralplus.com> has joined ##vulkan[14:49:33] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host86-153-157-230.range86-153.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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##vulkan[19:03:22] *** Deluxe <Deluxe!~Deluxe@212.4.150.151> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[19:21:57] <dyl> Hey, quick question:[19:22:35] <dyl> How does one properly juggle multiple pipelines?[19:22:58] <dyl> Can you share buffers or descriptor sets between them at all?[19:23:25] <dyl> How would one "switch" pipelines smoothly w.r.t. synchronization primitives?[19:23:45] <dyl> (for simplicity's sake, let's say one uses phong shading and the other is just wireframe.)[19:23:48] <ratchet_freak> doesn't matter, the pipeline is just bound for the rende"r command[19:24:51] <dyl> So in other words, just change the bindPipeline in the submitted command buffer?[19:25:19] <ratchet_freak> yeah and make sure the descriptor sets are comatible[19:25:23] <ratchet_freak> *compatible[19:25:28] <dyl> Right.[19:26:09] <dyl> Looking at this currently: http://32ipi028l5q82yhj72224m8j-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Vulkan-Diagram.png[19:28:23] <dyl> Also now trying to think about how to refactor/organize my massive 1400 line file.[19:28:35] <dyl> e.g. group per-frame resources, etc.[19:29:11] <dyl> For a basic object-modular rendering setup I assume i’d basically want to have objects with some kind of method I hand a command buffer and they populate?[19:29:18] <dyl> (And repeat for each drawable)[19:30:10] <ratchet_freak> you'd group them so you'd change as little state as possible between each draw but overall that's about it[19:34:11] *** Yaniel <Yaniel!yaniel@unaffiliated/yaniel> has quit IRC (Max SendQ exceeded)[19:34:31] *** Yaniel <Yaniel!yaniel@unaffiliated/yaniel> has joined ##vulkan[19:35:03] *** Yaniel <Yaniel!yaniel@unaffiliated/yaniel> has quit IRC (Max SendQ exceeded)[19:35:23] *** Yaniel <Yaniel!yaniel@unaffiliated/yaniel> has joined ##vulkan[19:35:55] *** Yaniel <Yaniel!yaniel@unaffiliated/yaniel> has quit IRC (Max SendQ exceeded)[19:36:15] *** Yaniel <Yaniel!yaniel@unaffiliated/yaniel> has joined ##vulkan[19:36:48] *** Yaniel 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<Yaniel!yaniel@unaffiliated/yaniel> has joined ##vulkan[19:46:44] *** Yaniel <Yaniel!yaniel@unaffiliated/yaniel> has quit IRC (Max SendQ exceeded)[19:47:05] *** Yaniel <Yaniel!yaniel@unaffiliated/yaniel> has joined ##vulkan[19:47:19] <dyl> Yaniel u ok .__.?[19:47:38] *** Yaniel <Yaniel!yaniel@unaffiliated/yaniel> has quit IRC (Max SendQ exceeded)[19:47:59] *** Yaniel <Yaniel!yaniel@unaffiliated/yaniel> has joined ##vulkan[19:48:31] *** Yaniel <Yaniel!yaniel@unaffiliated/yaniel> has quit IRC (Max SendQ exceeded)[19:48:52] *** Yaniel <Yaniel!yaniel@unaffiliated/yaniel> has joined ##vulkan[19:49:24] *** Yaniel <Yaniel!yaniel@unaffiliated/yaniel> has quit IRC (Max SendQ exceeded)[19:49:45] *** Yaniel <Yaniel!yaniel@unaffiliated/yaniel> has joined ##vulkan[19:50:16] *** Yaniel <Yaniel!yaniel@unaffiliated/yaniel> has quit IRC (Max SendQ exceeded)[19:50:34] *** mauz555 <mauz555!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has joined ##vulkan[19:50:42] *** Yaniel <Yaniel!yaniel@unaffiliated/yaniel> has joined ##vulkan[19:51:15] *** Yaniel <Yaniel!yaniel@unaffiliated/yaniel> has quit IRC (Max SendQ exceeded)[19:51:36] *** Yaniel <Yaniel!yaniel@unaffiliated/yaniel> has joined ##vulkan[19:52:11] *** Yaniel <Yaniel!yaniel@unaffiliated/yaniel> has quit IRC (Max SendQ exceeded)[20:00:15] <dyl> I have a few questions about VK_DESCRIPTOR_POOL_CREATE_FREE_DESCRIPTOR_SET_BIT.[20:00:29] <dyl> Is it in general a better idea to have it off, and reset entire DescriptorPools?[20:01:16] <dyl> "If a descriptor pool has not had any descriptor sets freed since it was created or most recently reset then fragmentation must not cause an allocation failure (always the case without the FREE bit)."[20:01:26] <chrisf> dyl: both options exist because it's an interesting tradeoff[20:01:37] <dyl> So it seems like it would be safest to *not* allow freeing descriptor sets on their own to avoid any fragmentation issues.[20:01:53] <dyl> It looks like it would be "easier" to work with entire pools, at least.[20:02:00] <dyl> chrisf Can you elaborate on what the tradeoff is?[20:02:10] <dyl> What do you get in exchange for allowing the possibility of fragmentation?[20:03:25] <chrisf> more flexible lifetime management[20:07:07] <dyl> I see.[20:07:20] <dyl> Probably not something I'm going to need to worry about too much here.[20:07:30] <dyl> I probably won't ever even need multiple descriptor sets.[20:07:38] <dyl> If I need multiple pipelines, it'll only be for flat/phong/wire.[20:08:01] <dyl> On the topic of wire... I'm getting this error:[20:08:02] <dyl> kCreateGraphicsPipelines parameter, VkPolygonMode pCreateInfos->pRasterizationState->polygonMode cannot be VK_POLYGON_MODE_POINT or VK_POLYGON_MODE_LINE if VkPhysicalDeviceFeatures->fillModeNonSolid is false.[20:08:06] <dyl> And yes... it still draws lines![20:08:22] <chrisf> dyl: are you enabling the feature?[20:08:25] *** Yaniel <Yaniel!yaniel@unaffiliated/yaniel> has joined ##vulkan[20:08:32] <dyl> Probably not, but it's still going through anyways.[20:08:39] <ratchet_freak> ub is as ub does[20:09:02] *** Yaniel <Yaniel!yaniel@unaffiliated/yaniel> has quit IRC (Max SendQ exceeded)[20:09:13] <dyl> Hm.[20:09:23] <dyl> I create a PhysicalDeviceFeatures struct and then never use it :|.[20:09:47] <chrisf> vulkan by 'what seems to work' is not a good plan. there's a LOT of UB.[20:09:53] <dyl> Oh yeah... I'm sure.[20:09:55] <ratchet_freak> kinda like C++[20:09:56] <dyl> Do I have to worry about features I enable on that not existing or being extension only?[20:10:18] <dyl> i.e. geometry shaders definitely have to be tested for, I thought.[20:10:18] <ratchet_freak> you can query the support features[20:10:36] <chrisf> dyl: you should be querying the supported features, and enabling the subset you need[20:10:41] <dyl> Got it.[20:11:04] <dyl> fillModeNonSolid seems like it would generally be available, I would think.[20:11:12] <dyl> So a hard requirement shouldn't be a problem. I don't know though :p[20:11:31] <chrisf> it's a feature bit because somebody cant do it[20:11:38] <dyl> Yeah.[20:11:45] *** cramalho <cramalho!~cramalho@179.190.254.211> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[20:11:53] <ratchet_freak> I wonder who though...[20:12:27] <chrisf> ES devices[20:12:37] <chrisf> http://vulkan.gpuinfo.org/listreports.php?feature=fillModeNonSolid&option=not[20:14:35] <dyl> So... a lot of integrated GPUs on androids then.[20:16:43] <chrisf> dyl: GLES never had glPolygonMode, so hardware designed for it tends not to support it[20:17:21] <ratchet_freak> so if you wanted to draw a line there you had to draw a thin rectangle[20:17:31] <chrisf> it had LINES>[20:17:33] <dyl> So, as for features, it might make sense for my scoreDevice to return not only a score but a set of features.[20:17:43] <dyl> i.e. std::tuple<uint32_t, vk::DeviceFeatures>[20:17:48] <chrisf> just not line/point modes for triangles[20:17:57] <dyl> And then I can store the DeviceFeatures down the line and use it to determine if some features can't be used.[20:18:06] <dyl> i.e. if there's no fillModeNonSolid, I just won't allow wireframes.[20:18:15] <ratchet_freak> oh like that, but isn't outlines from triangles basically reordered lines...[20:18:38] <dyl> (or compensate by transforming triangle meshes into some bastardized thing that looks like a wireframe.)[20:18:47] <dyl> (or using lines, yeah)[20:18:49] <ratchet_freak> dyl: or you can do lines with indexes[20:18:52] <chrisf> dyl: all you have to do is build a new indexbuffer[20:18:55] <dyl> Aaah true.[20:19:12] <dyl> So does this seem sane in my scoring:[20:19:46] <dyl> vk::DeviceFeatures Features; auto AvailableFeatures = Device.getFeatures(); /* test for features, adjusting score or returning 0 if required, set bools on Features */[20:19:53] <dyl> then return {score, features}?[20:20:22] <turol> you can do tricks to get wireframe without rendering lines[20:20:24] <dyl> I handle selecting a physical device by a rudimentary scoring. Currently it essentially just filters out non-viable options and prioritizes discrete GPUs.[20:20:24] <turol> https://codea.io/talk/discussion/3170/render-a-mesh-as-wireframe[20:20:29] <turol> http://codeflow.org/entries/2012/aug/02/easy-wireframe-display-with-barycentric-coordinates/[20:20:48] *** Guest4630 <Guest4630!4d3b9548@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.77.59.149.72> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[20:21:30] <chrisf> turol: it falls apart as soon as you have vertex sharing[20:21:43] <dyl> I'd rather just disable it or use lines.[20:21:46] <chrisf> turol: since it uses a vertex attribute[20:21:51] <dyl> It is kind of essential in my domain though.[20:22:00] <dyl> Falling back to lines is a-okay.[20:22:00] <turol> chrisf: true[20:22:22] <turol> well you could use geometry shaders but...[20:22:47] <turol> or rewrite your buffers when rendering wireframes[20:22:59] <turol> to not use indexed rendering[20:23:04] <ratchet_freak> or just create the bloody index buffer[20:24:04] <ratchet_freak> generating the index in the vertex shader and pulling from SSBO is also an option[20:26:31] <dyl> Index buffer really seems the easiest option.[20:26:51] <dyl> And simplest.[20:27:37] *** derhass <derhass!~derhass@ipservice-092-208-158-056.092.208.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has joined ##vulkan[20:29:23] <chrisf> as for device scoring approaches -- almost everything i've seen is overbuilt.[20:29:39] <chrisf> pick the first thing that can do what you need, let the user override it.[20:36:31] *** herbmillerjr <herbmillerjr!~herb@c-76-120-173-141.hsd1.pa.comcast.net> has joined ##vulkan[20:44:28] <dyl> That's pretty much what I do except I bias towards discrete GPUs.[20:44:46] <dyl> Nothing actually affects score other than that right now.[20:45:58] <chrisf> dyl: something you might consider is "can this present to my surface"[20:46:58] <dyl> I love how "disabled inspections" in CLion... isn't.[20:47:05] <dyl> When I say don't want inspections *I don't want inspections*.[20:51:05] <dyl> chrisf this look kosher on a quick skim?[20:51:06] <dyl> https://gist.github.com/DylanLukes/c9847b487823b7794ea2dbc29fc03bac[20:51:45] <dyl> (VKMOL_GUARD_VALUES just checks for eSuccess and then returns an initializer list of {Result, __VA_ARGS__} incidentally)[20:51:59] <dyl> expands to*[20:52:38] <dyl> What do you mean by "can this present to my surface"?[20:52:58] <dyl> querySwapchainSupport there does check Device.getSurfacePresentModesKHR and so forth.[20:53:50] <dyl> Should I check for something more specific than non-empty?[20:54:29] <dyl> "SwapchainSupport" is a bit vague as it's mostly checking against surface...[20:55:10] <dyl> I should go back through my code and add this-> on LHS...[20:58:57] <turol> dyl: https://github.com/turol/smaaDemo/blob/master/renderer/VulkanRenderer.cpp#L474[20:59:33] <turol> my code just picks the first device[20:59:40] *** mauz555 <mauz555!~mauz555@cpe-142-129-115-205.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC ()[21:00:05] <turol> but if you have multiple different physical devices you might will to check that it can present to your surface[21:12:03] *** Fats <Fats!fats@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/fats> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[21:13:16] *** Fats <Fats!fats@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/fats> has joined ##vulkan[21:15:22] *** nsf <nsf!~nsf@jiss.convex.ru> has joined ##vulkan[21:38:13] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host86-153-157-230.range86-153.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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I notice that it explicitly defines `out gl_PerVertex { vec4 gl_Position; };` in the vertex shader[23:15:33] <Shockk> is this required for vulkan or is it just written there for explicity?[23:16:32] <Shockk> well I guess the better question is, is it required for the vertex shader to work with glslang?[23:18:07] *** bgrayburn[m] <bgrayburn[m]!bgrayburnm@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-pocpinkcwjazvqdc> has joined ##vulkan[23:18:08] *** Wallbraker <Wallbraker!wallbraker@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-kijtypsfstcdzalc> has joined ##vulkan[23:18:08] *** DSNTravellerbot[ <DSNTravellerbot[!dsn-travel@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-wqpdazxcdnnbykzu> has joined ##vulkan[23:18:08] *** Vtec234[m] <Vtec234[m]!vtec234mat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-falfmmbkmuwkjmjb> has joined ##vulkan[23:18:08] *** Ralith <Ralith!ralithrali@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-numsgnfnsgthysru> has joined ##vulkan[23:18:14] *** tomaka <tomaka!tomaka17ma@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-szsnzrcqoudcmhea> has joined ##vulkan[23:18:14] *** lieff[m] <lieff[m]!lieffmatri@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-rwmpekjneozopvwj> has joined ##vulkan[23:18:15] *** M-penguin42 <M-penguin42!penguin42m@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-uqwujbmxxrbkziks> has joined ##vulkan[23:18:15] *** pabcou <pabcou!m0x221emat@gateway/shell/matrix.org/x-abzhaaoteelqjugl> has joined ##vulkan[23:33:49] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host86-153-157-230.range86-153.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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