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[01:31:44] <Zexaron> Hey
[01:31:51] <Zexaron> I missed the whole github debacle
[01:32:45] <Zexaron> I just started thinking how wrong is this, I mean, Vulkan API now hosted on a site who owns competitor to it, this is ridicolous on so many levels I am without words, I'm really just want to shut the PC off and put my head under 10 feet of dirt
[01:34:47] <Zexaron> I mean, I missed the initial buzz, so there might have been talk about here, but I did saw the news many hours ago, still, it's feels like a total alternate reality or something, congress has to act and block this nonsense
[01:37:44] <ratchetfreak> it's gonna take some time for microsoft to do anything truely malicious to github
[01:49:02] <Zexaron> i hope so
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[02:38:50] <dyl> The only big issue is the issue tracking lockin
[02:38:57] <dyl> Git repos are easy to move
[02:39:01] <dyl> Issue tracking isn’t.
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[13:34:54] <Guest4630> why are normal maps and such stored on the material? wouldn't it make more sense to store those separately from all the constants so that I can reuse the material for another object?
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[13:49:49] <ratchetfreak> I'd expect it to be part of the texture
[13:51:10] <exDM69> Guest4630: "stored on the material"?
[13:51:31] <exDM69> vulkan has no concept of "material", you must be referring to a specific engine or project?
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[14:08:46] <Yaniel> keeping normals and material information separate makes sense from a theorethical standpoint
[14:09:30] <Yaniel> in practice being able to do things such as define details that use a different material by using a material mask is very convenient
[14:10:12] <Yaniel> and if you did that the naïve way your shader would have to know about every material ever which is not quite optimal
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[14:14:02] <Yaniel> and then there's stuff like gloss / roughness maps
[14:22:12] <Guest4630> well it would be part of the texture. most implementations of materials have both the specular/diffuse/etc constants as well as the normal maps. It just seems to make more sense to separate the two
[14:22:37] <Guest4630> and other maps as well*
[14:25:43] <Yaniel> okay lets take my favourite example of using PBR maps for subtle effects
[14:25:59] <Yaniel> is the pattern near the edge of the dress using a separate material or not?
[14:26:53] <Guest4630> than the dress itself?
[14:26:59] <Yaniel> yes
[14:27:18] <Guest4630> presumably not. I would think its modelled as one thing
[14:27:25] <Yaniel> exactly
[14:27:37] <Yaniel> it even uses the same base color as the rest of the dress
[14:27:52] <Yaniel> and IIRC the same normals too
[14:29:34] <Yaniel> presumably it's done with a roughness map
[14:30:43] <Yaniel> so is roughness not a material property?
[14:30:52] <Yaniel> in pre-PBR it would equate to shininess
[14:31:37] <Guest4630> I guess a union of sorts might be more fitting then
[14:31:53] <Guest4630> since if I have a map for something I don't need the constant right?
[14:32:30] <Yaniel> the map can be used to modulate a constant value
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[14:34:41] <Guest4630> so the constant is used as a base in that sense?
[14:35:36] <Guest4630> or a mask even
[14:36:54] <ratchetfreak> it could set a range (if it's a pair of constants), set a offset, set clipping bounds, etc.
[14:38:06] <Guest4630> I mean it would be implementation specific I guess. But what is it usually used for?
[14:39:09] <ratchetfreak> for example if the model is "wet" you would increase whatever makes it look shiny
[14:39:31] <Guest4630> but that can be done with a gloss map as well no?
[14:40:34] <ratchetfreak> yeah but having a single constant for the entire model lets you make large changes over the entire model without needing to reupload the material map every frame
[14:41:09] <Guest4630> the way I understand it is that all these material properties either have a constant or a map, like solid colour vs texture or shininess vs specular map etc
[14:41:27] <neurre> You can combine constants and maps
[14:41:34] <Guest4630> so my question is would I need both or just one
[14:41:50] <neurre> you can have whatever you want or need
[14:42:06] <Guest4630> meaning I can just use a union/either type to store it, in the latter case
[14:42:16] <ratchetfreak> it's the difference between pbrParam1 = texture(prbTex1, coords); and pbrParam1 = pbrUniform1;
[14:43:01] <Guest4630> okay so I only need one at a time
[14:43:21] <ratchetfreak> you can combine them like pbrParam1 = pbrOffset1+texture(prbTex1, coords);
[14:43:37] <ratchetfreak> it really depends on what you need for the model and in the rest of your engine
[14:43:53] <neurre> or you can have bias + texture() * scale
[14:44:39] <ratchetfreak> or pbrParam1 = pow(texture(prbTex1, coords), pbrExponent1);
[14:45:13] <Guest4630> I guess combining them can lead to various effects and such
[14:45:24] <Guest4630> ill keep that in mind then, thanks
[14:46:47] <Guest4630> in that case, this could be used to implement something like flashing the character's texture when taking damage right?
[14:48:21] <ratchetfreak> that's indeed one of the ways to use this
[14:48:36] <Guest4630> awesome, makes sense!
[14:48:38] <Guest4630> thanks again
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[19:46:07] <Guest4630> does anyone have an example of a g buffer implementation in Vulkan? trying to figure out the multi subpassing
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[20:00:04] <dyl> ratchetfreak I realized something interesting about the "Debug Report callbacks not removed before DestroyInstance" message.
[20:00:19] <ratchetfreak> hm?
[20:00:21] <dyl> That's itself coming from/printed by a DebugReport. :"|
[20:00:25] <dyl> :-|
[20:00:51] <dyl> I still have no idea how to deal with it though.
[20:01:04] <dyl> I'm not doing any manual memory management so I just remain perplexed.
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[20:19:23] <dyl> Ended up trying to add the create info/callback to the instance's pNext chain.
[20:19:25] <dyl> No dice either.
[20:21:21] <dyl> At this point I'm debating later compiling a copy of the LunarG validation layers so I can see what the heck is going on.
[20:21:30] <dyl> It's not a problem, it's just irritating to see every time I run the app
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[20:51:01] <dyl> derhass have you ever seen this appear for inexplicable reasons? "Debug Report callbacks not removed before DestroyInstance"
[20:51:14] <dyl> Or know how to get it silenced? I'm just using UniqueHandles so I'm not sure why.
[20:52:12] <dyl> Weirdly it appears immediately after the debug message "destroyed callback" :|.
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