June 19, 2017 
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June 19, 2017 [00:04:46] *** ShadowIce <ShadowIce!~pyoro@unaffiliated/shadowice-x841044> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[00:04:51] *** jkilpatr <jkilpatr!~jkilpatr@2602:30a:c7da:b600:845f:2921:2881:c7ba> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[00:11:16] *** slidercrank <slidercrank!~slidercra@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/fifth/slidercrank> has joined ##vulkan[00:18:51] *** ImQ009 <ImQ009!~ImQ009@unaffiliated/imq009> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[00:23:24] *** Limeth <Limeth!~Limeth@94.142.238.158> has joined ##vulkan[00:28:34] *** Limeth <Limeth!~Limeth@94.142.238.158> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[00:43:06] *** rlarionov <rlarionov!~rlarionov@68-202-221-190.res.bhn.net> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[00:51:22] *** nsf <nsf!~nsf@jiss.convex.ru> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 1.7.1)[01:17:37] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host81-153-35-152.range81-153.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz…)[03:31:23] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host81-153-35-152.range81-153.btcentralplus.com> has joined ##vulkan[03:37:10] *** slidercrank <slidercrank!~slidercra@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/fifth/slidercrank> has joined ##vulkan[03:46:45] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host81-153-35-152.range81-153.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[03:47:51] <gamester> Say that you need to upload a lot of data to the GPU that you need right away. How do you decide between allocating a lot of host visible memory for transfer, or using a smaller buffer that you refill?[03:51:03] *** lurchman <lurchman!~lurchman@cpe-74-76-2-217.nycap.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[03:51:07] *** lurchman2 <lurchman2!~lurchman@cpe-74-76-2-217.nycap.res.rr.com> has joined ##vulkan[03:58:54] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host81-153-35-152.range81-153.btcentralplus.com> has joined ##vulkan[04:23:31] *** hs_ <hs_!~hs_@c-24-16-81-20.hsd1.wa.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[04:36:28] *** vitimiti <vitimiti!~Celtor@unaffiliated/vitimiti> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)[04:36:58] *** Neomex <Neomex!~Neomex@net-37-117-54-230.cust.vodafonedsl.it> has joined ##vulkan[04:38:02] *** hs_ <hs_!~hs_@c-24-16-81-20.hsd1.wa.comcast.net> has joined ##vulkan[04:40:52] *** slidercrank <slidercrank!~slidercra@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/fifth/slidercrank> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[04:42:05] *** Neomex <Neomex!~Neomex@net-37-117-54-230.cust.vodafonedsl.it> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[04:47:38] *** GMpow3srV <GMpow3srV!~goedelmac@55d45fc9.access.ecotel.net> has joined ##vulkan[04:51:25] *** GMpow2srV <GMpow2srV!~goedelmac@55d44c5d.access.ecotel.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)[04:55:27] <Ralith> profiling[05:02:52] *** rlarionov <rlarionov!~rlarionov@68-202-221-190.res.bhn.net> has joined ##vulkan[05:08:45] *** sla_ro|master <sla_ro|master!~sla.ro@95.76.45.217> has joined ##vulkan[05:27:54] *** Lingo_ <Lingo_!~Lingo@c-98-210-116-46.hsd1.ca.comcast.net> has joined ##vulkan[05:28:22] *** Lingo_ <Lingo_!~Lingo@c-98-210-116-46.hsd1.ca.comcast.net> has left ##vulkan[05:31:29] *** traveller_ <traveller_!~vargr_@2602:30b:82b5:dfa9:d50d:2b0:95ea:ed44> has joined ##vulkan[05:32:41] *** ravior <ravior!~crapitea@5-13-233-238.residential.rdsnet.ro> has joined ##vulkan[05:46:27] *** Ralith is now known as Ralith__[05:46:38] *** Ralith_ is now known as Ralith[05:46:52] *** BearishMushroom <BearishMushroom!~BearishMu@90-231-174-194-no159.tbcn.telia.com> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[05:48:34] *** Ralith is now known as Ralith_[05:49:18] *** Ralith__ is now known as Ralith[06:10:34] *** TechnoCrunch <TechnoCrunch!~TechnoCru@101.100.137.146> has joined ##vulkan[06:12:22] *** tacchinotacchi <tacchinotacchi!~tacchinot@net-93-147-6-32.cust.vodafonedsl.it> has joined ##vulkan[06:16:45] *** vijaikumar <vijaikumar!uid102190@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-icldgdwhyhalaavx> has joined ##vulkan[06:19:32] *** sla_ro|master <sla_ro|master!~sla.ro@95.76.45.217> has quit IRC ()[06:22:58] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host81-153-35-152.range81-153.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[18:10:56] *** ravior <ravior!~crapitea@89.121.200.106> has quit IRC (Quit: Konversation terminated!)[18:18:22] *** qptain_Nemo <qptain_Nemo!~qN@broadband-77-37-235-217.moscow.rt.ru> has joined ##vulkan[18:24:02] *** davr0s <davr0s!~textual@host81-153-35-152.range81-153.btcentralplus.com> has joined ##vulkan[18:40:25] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7lvqlgp3rb5sjr.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[18:41:06] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7lvqlgp3rb5sjr.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has joined ##vulkan[18:49:34] *** metalhead33 <metalhead33!~metalhead@BC24CF54.dsl.pool.telekom.hu> has joined ##vulkan[18:49:35] *** akuma_ <akuma_!~quassel@h-145-155.A357.priv.bahnhof.se> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[18:50:30] *** akuma_ <akuma_!~quassel@h-145-155.A357.priv.bahnhof.se> has joined ##vulkan[18:51:46] *** slidercrank <slidercrank!~slidercra@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/fifth/slidercrank> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[18:56:05] *** Amadiro <Amadiro!jonathri@dalvik.ping.uio.no> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[18:56:48] *** akuma_ <akuma_!~quassel@h-145-155.A357.priv.bahnhof.se> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[18:57:33] *** akuma_ <akuma_!~quassel@h-145-155.A357.priv.bahnhof.se> has joined ##vulkan[18:58:24] <metalhead33> So, how has anyone here managed to tackle the issue of memory sub-allocation?[19:00:57] *** realitix <realitix!~realitix@92.103.166.6> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[19:04:28] *** ImQ009 <ImQ009!~ImQ009@unaffiliated/imq009> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[19:04:45] *** ImQ009 <ImQ009!~ImQ009@unaffiliated/imq009> has joined ##vulkan[19:07:20] *** Amadiro <Amadiro!jonathri@dalvik.ping.uio.no> has joined ##vulkan[19:16:33] *** psychicist__ <psychicist__!~psychicis@ip127-8-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl> has joined ##vulkan[19:19:07] *** tambre <tambre!~tambre@43b0-7b19-2073-695f-0e80-8a31-07d0-2001.dyn.estpak.ee> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[19:26:30] *** afl_ext <afl_ext!~afl_ext3@unaffiliated/afl-ext/x-2796036> has joined ##vulkan[19:32:31] *** ravior <ravior!~crapitea@5-13-233-238.residential.rdsnet.ro> has joined ##vulkan[19:33:13] *** slidercrank <slidercrank!~slidercra@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/fifth/slidercrank> has joined ##vulkan[19:39:32] <rosseaux> metalhead33: my memory management at my PasVulkan project handles suballocations without big issues (incl. on persistent mapped resources, right alignment handling and so on, with help of an own Vulkan memory API abstraction). so on which part of the Vulkan memory suballocation topic area you are stucking on?[19:41:41] <metalhead33> I am thinking of using linked list to create a sort of Vkfs, or CAT (Chunk Allocation Table) or SAT (Suballocation Table) of a sort.[19:42:22] <ratchetfreak> and I've been trying to convince him that linked lists aren't needed, a plain vector would be plenty[19:42:24] <rosseaux> i've using a two-layer-concept for it:[19:42:49] <metalhead33> Two-layer concept?[19:43:27] <rosseaux> Layer 1: a naive linked-list of native-allocated Vulkan buffers (with minimum 16MB oder 32MB per each)[19:43:43] <rosseaux> Laxer 2: each native-allocated Vulkan buffer ha red-black-tree[19:43:51] <rosseaux> Laxer 2: each native-allocated Vulkan buffer has a own red-black-tree[19:43:57] <metalhead33> red-black-tree? What is that?[19:43:58] <rosseaux> for the suballocations[19:44:19] <rosseaux> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red%E2%80%93black_tree[19:44:45] <rosseaux> or better two red-black-trees for each native-allocated Vulkan buffer[19:45:56] <rosseaux> once red-black-tree is sorted by siz[19:46:13] <rosseaux> once red-black-tree is sorted by size[19:46:22] <rosseaux> and the other red-black-tree is sorted by offset[19:47:20] <metalhead33> Interesting.[19:47:28] <chrisf> this sounds very general.[19:47:57] <rosseaux> the size-red-black-tree is used for the best-fit-suballocation-search[19:48:00] *** tambre <tambre!~tambre@3c7b-4d4a-6654-009a-0e80-8a31-07d0-2001.dyn.estpak.ee> has joined ##vulkan[19:48:51] <metalhead33> My linked-list system has a first-fit approach: the first free block that is large enough to fit the new "file" (or rather, occupied memory chunk) either gets reduced in size, or occupied (if the size is the same).[19:48:54] <rosseaux> and the offset-red-black-tree is used for lookups for example at the Free opöeration[19:50:00] <rosseaux> i got the idea with the two rb-trees from https://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/en/ssw_aix_71/com.ibm.aix.genprogc/sys_mem_alloc.htm[19:50:18] <rosseaux> Quote: "The Watson allocation policy maintains the free space in the heap as nodes in two separate red-black trees: one sorted by address, the other by size. Red-black trees provide simpler and more efficient tree operations than the cartesian trees of the default allocator, thus the watson allocation policy is often faster than the default."[19:50:38] <afl_ext> so complicated it looks like university project[19:51:00] <rosseaux> and at PasVulkan this concept does its job really well[19:51:30] <rosseaux> afl_ext: many alloators do seems to use this concept[19:51:50] <rosseaux> even boost[19:52:05] <rosseaux> at its shared memory stuff[19:52:18] <ratchetfreak> you don't want to chase pointers 4 levels (at least) deep just to grab a chunk of memory in a soft-realtime program like a game[19:53:09] <afl_ext> I would go with domain specific allocator if I was writing a game[19:53:10] <metalhead33> You don't have to, when you already have the buffer set up.[19:53:22] <rosseaux> what metalhead33 said[19:53:55] <rosseaux> once allocated, there are no pointer levels[19:53:55] <metalhead33> You don't need to worry about chunks anymore after you allocate the buffer and bind it to the chunk.[19:54:23] <ratchetfreak> I mean navigating the trees and linked list[19:54:44] <metalhead33> You don't need to navigate the linked list once you have already binded the buffer to an individual chunk.[19:58:00] <metalhead33> In my linked-list system, you only traverse the linked list when finding the offset (beginning) of a chunk, in order to bind it to a buffer (which should be done as soon as said chunk is created).[19:58:07] <rosseaux> and for fast temporary allocations, PasVulkan has a different more simple allocation strategy. the rb-tree stuff is for permanent and long-time allocated memory resozrces.[19:59:26] <rosseaux> for to avoid fragmentation problems between short-live-time and long-live-time allocations as much as possible.[20:00:22] *** opencw <opencw!~opencw@185.66.193.71> has joined ##vulkan[20:04:13] *** opencw <opencw!~opencw@185.66.193.71> has quit IRC (Max SendQ exceeded)[20:04:47] *** opencw <opencw!~opencw@185.66.193.71> has joined ##vulkan[20:05:28] *** opencw <opencw!~opencw@185.66.193.71> has quit IRC (Max SendQ exceeded)[20:06:02] *** opencw <opencw!~opencw@185.66.193.71> has joined ##vulkan[20:06:37] *** opencw <opencw!~opencw@185.66.193.71> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[20:07:01] *** opencw <opencw!~opencw@185.66.193.71> has joined ##vulkan[20:10:53] *** opencw <opencw!~opencw@185.66.193.71> has quit IRC (Max SendQ exceeded)[20:11:00] *** ville__ <ville__!~ville@37-33-10-32.bb.dnainternet.fi> has joined ##vulkan[20:11:31] *** opencw <opencw!~opencw@185.66.193.71> has joined ##vulkan[20:11:54] *** KaetemiC__ <KaetemiC__!sid109773@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xreblfxlshzjerht> has joined ##vulkan[20:12:03] *** qNemo <qNemo!~qN@broadband-77-37-235-217.moscow.rt.ru> has joined ##vulkan[20:14:33] *** opencw <opencw!~opencw@185.66.193.71> has quit IRC (Max SendQ exceeded)[20:14:37] *** d4rkforc1 <d4rkforc1!~darkforce@pdpc/supporter/student/d4rkforce> has joined ##vulkan[20:14:56] *** glisse_ <glisse_!~glisse@annarchy.freedesktop.org> has joined ##vulkan[20:15:01] *** glYoda_ <glYoda_!~MTLYoda@c-71-236-230-251.hsd1.or.comcast.net> has joined ##vulkan[20:15:06] *** mceier_ <mceier_!~mceier@89-69-209-180.dynamic.chello.pl> has joined ##vulkan[20:16:28] <rosseaux> ratchetfreak: and? iterating a linked list, when the linked lists are short enough and the linked lists are pre-divided in variant-lookup-arrays (by heap flags, by property flags, by non-full/full, etc.) is for the first layer fast enough for realtime.[20:16:28] <rosseaux> the important thing is that no linked list and no red-black tree should be too long, too deep or too big, etc. and that for temporary short-live allocations a different simpler allocation strategy is used.[20:16:28] <rosseaux> and each abstraction-allocated memory buffer handle structure at PasVulkan has direct pointers to the native Vulkan memory block, rb tree node and linked list node, so 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