June 6, 2017 
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(Read error: Connection reset by peer)[11:22:23] *** elect_ <elect_!~elect@business-092-079-135-041.static.arcor-ip.net> has joined ##vulkan[11:23:38] *** rlarionov <rlarionov!~rlarionov@68-202-221-190.res.bhn.net> has joined ##vulkan[11:23:53] *** shifteda1 <shifteda1!~ben@69-174-170-31.lfytina1.metronetinc.net> has joined ##vulkan[11:24:12] <shifteda1> ls[11:24:18] *** shifteda1 <shifteda1!~ben@69-174-170-31.lfytina1.metronetinc.net> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[11:25:28] *** elect <elect!~elect@business-092-079-135-041.static.arcor-ip.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[11:25:56] *** rlarionov <rlarionov!~rlarionov@68-202-221-190.res.bhn.net> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[11:33:47] *** HuntsMan <HuntsMan!~hunts@ricasa01.informatik.uni-bremen.de> has joined ##vulkan[11:35:02] <realitix> shiftedal: I can tell you work on linux ^^[11:39:02] *** john1 <john1!~john@host86-147-127-48.range86-147.btcentralplus.com> has joined ##vulkan[11:41:33] *** vitimiti <vitimiti!~Celtor@unaffiliated/vitimiti> has joined ##vulkan[11:55:20] *** Biolunar <Biolunar!Biolunar@dslb-178-001-155-094.178.001.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has joined ##vulkan[11:57:52] *** Lucretia <Lucretia!~laguest@pdpc/supporter/active/lucretia> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[12:02:24] *** ZexaronS <ZexaronS!~zexpc@cpe-194-152-22-45.static.triera.net> has joined ##vulkan[12:03:12] *** tarceri <tarceri!~tarceri@CPE-137-147-145-51.lnse7.win.bigpond.net.au> has joined ##vulkan[12:17:21] *** shiftedabsurdity <shiftedabsurdity!~shiftedab@69-174-170-31.lfytina1.metronetinc.net> has joined ##vulkan[12:21:31] *** slidercrank <slidercrank!~slidercra@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/fifth/slidercrank> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[12:37:23] *** tarceri <tarceri!~tarceri@CPE-137-147-145-51.lnse7.win.bigpond.net.au> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[12:41:49] *** jkilpatr <jkilpatr!~jkilpatr@2602:30a:c7da:b600:845f:2921:2881:c7ba> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[12:50:06] *** ville <ville!~ville@87-93-106-118.bb.dnainternet.fi> has joined ##vulkan[12:53:56] *** tarceri <tarceri!~tarceri@CPE-137-147-145-51.lnse7.win.bigpond.net.au> has joined ##vulkan[12:59:23] *** jkilpatr <jkilpatr!jkilpatr@nat/redhat/x-xecgmkguujzhlxnp> has joined ##vulkan[13:01:19] *** slidercrank <slidercrank!~slidercra@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/fifth/slidercrank> has joined ##vulkan[13:27:34] *** spara <spara!~spara@ARennes-258-1-211-56.w2-11.abo.wanadoo.fr> has joined ##vulkan[13:28:31] *** codegosu <codegosu!codegosu@62.244.48.155> has joined ##vulkan[13:29:23] *** TechnoCrunch <TechnoCrunch!~TechnoCru@101.100.137.146> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[13:31:59] *** Casandir <Casandir!~Casandir@unaffiliated/casandir> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[13:42:19] *** Casandir <Casandir!~Casandir@unaffiliated/casandir> has joined ##vulkan[13:43:53] *** mdiluz <mdiluz!~mdiluz@80.71.2.213> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[13:46:01] *** mdiluz <mdiluz!~mdiluz@cpc121308-nmal25-2-0-cust94.19-2.cable.virginm.net> has joined ##vulkan[14:00:54] *** navidr <navidr!uid112413@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-sammsqyaihlydowt> has quit IRC (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)[14:01:32] *** tacchinotacchi <tacchinotacchi!~tacchinot@net-2-38-5-175.cust.vodafonedsl.it> has joined ##vulkan[14:11:40] *** psychicist__ <psychicist__!~psychicis@ip127-8-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl> has joined ##vulkan[14:18:54] *** radamanthe <radamanthe!~tek@par69-1-82-67-27-111.fbx.proxad.net> has joined ##vulkan[14:24:34] *** Neomex <Neomex!~Neomex@net-2-36-116-230.cust.vodafonedsl.it> has joined ##vulkan[14:46:44] *** sla_ro|master <sla_ro|master!~sla.ro@95.76.45.217> has joined ##vulkan[15:04:39] *** BearishMushroom <BearishMushroom!~BearishMu@90-231-174-194-no159.tbcn.telia.com> has joined ##vulkan[15:26:45] *** Altazimuth <Altazimuth!~Altazimut@05431766.skybroadband.com> has joined ##vulkan[15:29:33] <Altazimuth> I'm trying to make a Vulkan equivalent to an OpenGL renderer used by a project I'm working on. We have various internal texture formats stored in an array, but a lot of these aren't supported in Vulkan (e.g. GL_R3_G3_B2). Is there any workaround for this? I don't really wanna have an array with a bunch of vk::Format::eUndefined or VK_FORMAT_UNDEFINED.[15:31:06] <ector> If they are internal, just make your own enum, then on texture upload time (or whenever), look up in a table to convert your enum to VkFormat and do the necessary data conversions[15:32:20] *** redpill <redpill!~redpill@unaffiliated/redpill> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[15:37:18] <Altazimuth> Fair enough, they definitely are internal, given that the GL version of the array is called internalTextureFormats :I[15:38:11] *** redpill <redpill!~redpill@unaffiliated/redpill> has joined ##vulkan[15:38:14] <Altazimuth> I could probably abstract the GL enum already there, since the Vulkan version would be the same.[15:38:43] <exDM69> Altazimuth: is there a good reason you have such exotic formats there anyway?[15:38:46] <exDM69> are you using them?[15:39:19] <Altazimuth> Apparently so.[15:41:40] <Altazimuth> As for why, I wouldn't know why it's all these esoteric formats. Probably legacy-related.[15:42:32] <Altazimuth> The guy who completely rewrote the renderer hasn't been on in around a year, and lost interest long before that, so I wouldn't be able to ask him.[15:42:35] <exDM69> those formats aren't very widely supported[15:43:54] <ratchetfreak> and in opengl those internal formats are probably lies anyway[15:44:48] <exDM69> yeah, it wouldn't be surprising if they get converted to another format (on the CPU) before using them[15:45:22] <Altazimuth> The GL renderer is just a dumb render-to-texture anyways. I'm mostly doing this for fun.[15:45:55] <Altazimuth> https://github.com/team-eternity/eternity/blob/master/source/gl/gl_vars.h#L43-L60[15:49:55] <Altazimuth> Well, short-term. Long term it'll actually end up being useful.[15:51:38] <mangelis> quick searches show CFG_GL_R3_G3_B2 is only used as a intializer to some console variable, same for all CFG_GL_RGB* :)[15:55:01] <Altazimuth> Gonna poke lead maintainer, see what he says.[15:56:07] <Altazimuth> cfg_gl_texture_format does see use in SDLGL2DVideoDriver::InitGraphicsMode()[15:56:36] <mangelis> yup[15:57:16] <mangelis> it looks like to me that the gl renderer just "supports" using those weird texture formats internally, but there is no real need to support them[16:09:25] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!c351a8d8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.195.81.168.216> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[16:28:45] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!c351a8d8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.195.81.168.216> has joined ##vulkan[17:04:41] *** psychicist__ <psychicist__!~psychicis@ip127-8-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)[17:05:13] *** vitimiti <vitimiti!~Celtor@unaffiliated/vitimiti> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[17:07:12] *** psychicist__ <psychicist__!~psychicis@ip127-8-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl> has joined ##vulkan[17:18:25] <Discoloda> is there any tutorial for getting model vertex data from a texture in vertex shader?[17:19:38] *** jo90 <jo90!~John90@111.92.56.95> has joined ##vulkan[17:29:33] *** HuntsMan <HuntsMan!~hunts@ricasa01.informatik.uni-bremen.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[17:29:46] <Yaniel> the exact same way you'd do it in a fragment shader[17:35:35] <Discoloda> why would you get vertex position in a fragment shader[17:39:15] *** ImQ009_ <ImQ009_!~ImQ009@unaffiliated/imq009> has joined ##vulkan[17:39:25] *** ImQ009_ <ImQ009_!~ImQ009@unaffiliated/imq009> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[17:42:06] <ratchetfreak> you get the information from texture the same way[17:42:13] <ratchetfreak> how you apply them is up to you[17:42:18] <ratchetfreak> also bump mapping[17:43:11] *** ImQ009 <ImQ009!~ImQ009@unaffiliated/imq009> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[17:50:07] *** sunbearc22 <sunbearc22!~sunbear@175.156.83.186> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[17:50:30] <exDM69> well you should use texelFetch() or the other texturing functions (textureGather, textureLOD, etc) instead of plain texture() because you can't automatically determine mipmap level in a vertex shader[17:50:51] <exDM69> apart from that, there's nothing to it... you just look up the values you want from a texture[17:51:34] <exDM69> Discoloda: what is it you're doing? heightmap terrain? something else? why do you want to look up vertex data from textures and not pass it in the usual manner with vertex attributes and vertex buffers?[17:51:57] *** mdiluz <mdiluz!~mdiluz@cpc121308-nmal25-2-0-cust94.19-2.cable.virginm.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[17:52:13] <Yaniel> hmm... how wacky would a combination of RTT + VTF[17:52:14] <Yaniel> be*[17:53:03] <exDM69> Yaniel: that was sometimes used to do particle simulations etc back in the days before compute shaders etc (or in WEbGL / GLES)[17:53:36] <Yaniel> oh right, those don't have transform feedback, do they[17:53:55] *** mdiluz <mdiluz!~mdiluz@80.71.2.213> has joined ##vulkan[17:54:09] <exDM69> no and xform feedback was dropped from vulkan too, right?[17:54:42] <ratchetfreak> but there are compute shaders to make up for that[17:54:47] <Yaniel> well, vulkan has compute built in[17:54:53] <exDM69> I'm not sure how much it was ever used but it kinda makes sense in combination with geometry shaders, because geom shaders typically write back to dram anyway[17:55:06] <exDM69> so if you're using geom shaders, xform feedback would be essentially "free"[17:55:33] <exDM69> and it's not geometry shaders that are "slow", it's the write-back-to-dram part that is[17:55:41] <exDM69> which is what is giving them a bad name[17:56:06] <ratchetfreak> but it's very hard to keep api order without writing back to dram[17:56:54] <exDM69> I guess we have creative labs to blame because /the/ use case for geom shaders was/is shadow volumes (patented by creative), which fell out of favor due to the patent issues[17:57:36] <ratchetfreak> and then LOD but tess shaders took over that usecase[17:59:00] <mangelis> are tess shaders slow like geom shaders btw?[17:59:15] <ratchetfreak> they shouldn't be[17:59:35] <ratchetfreak> the split helps a lot with being able to reserve the buffer space the eval shader needs[17:59:40] *** Lucretia <Lucretia!~laguest@2a02:c7d:3c35:b000:820b:b4b:a960:89f2> has joined ##vulkan[17:59:40] *** Lucretia <Lucretia!~laguest@2a02:c7d:3c35:b000:820b:b4b:a960:89f2> has quit IRC (Changing host)[17:59:40] *** Lucretia <Lucretia!~laguest@pdpc/supporter/active/lucretia> has joined ##vulkan[17:59:51] <Yaniel> hm is there something that's never drawn in those pipeline diagrams then?[18:00:03] <mangelis> but don't tess shaders also generate extra vertices?[18:00:10] <Yaniel> since the pipeline is vert -> tessc -> tesse -> geom -> frag[18:01:09] <ratchetfreak> Yaniel: you should add the fixed function parts: vert in -> vert -> tessc -> tess -> tesse -> geom -> rasterizer -> frag -> blend[18:01:15] <exDM69> mangelis: as I said above, it's not geom shaders that are slow... it's the fact that they write back to dram[18:01:53] <ratchetfreak> mangelis: they do create extra vertices but the big problem with geom shaders is that the gpu doesn't know how many are generated until the invocation returns[18:01:56] <exDM69> tess shaders are "faster" but they're much more limited in what they can do[18:02:05] <Yaniel> but why don't tessellation shaders write back then?[18:02:11] <ratchetfreak> with tess that is computed in advance by the tess control[18:02:22] <exDM69> Yaniel: because they always produce a certain amount of geometry[18:02:31] <Yaniel> right[18:02:36] <ratchetfreak> the amount they produce is set by the tess control[18:02:38] <exDM69> Yaniel: they can "write back" to on-chip memory, no need to spill to dram[18:02:48] <Yaniel> ah, I suppose that's why they are split into two passes[18:03:00] <exDM69> yeah, tess control sets the amount of vertices they produce, and there's a well defined maximum how much that can be[18:03:20] <exDM69> so I suppose there's enough "memory" allocated to meet the maximum[18:03:25] <Yaniel> and I take it tess eval can be split across multiple jobs[18:03:39] <mangelis> right, but geom shaders also have max_vertices. won't that help?[18:04:02] <Yaniel> yes[18:04:19] <ratchetfreak> geom shader can emit from 0 to max_vertices, and the output must be correct for every amount emitted[18:05:21] <ratchetfreak> and the gpu doesn't know how many times emit will be called until the shader is finished. (unless the driver could extract that from the geom shader)[18:05:24] <Yaniel> but the amount of output can't be known before the geom shader invocation[18:05:54] <Yaniel> whereas with the tess shader that is one of its parameters[18:06:03] <mangelis> right[18:07:26] <Yaniel> while it would technically be possible to just always allocate "enough" memory that would probably be difficult to implement[18:07:26] <Yaniel> and slow[18:15:15] *** toor_ <toor_!~toor@eth-east-parth2-46-193-65-52.wb.wifirst.net> has joined ##vulkan[18:19:35] *** john1 <john1!~john@host86-147-127-48.range86-147.btcentralplus.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[18:20:02] *** mdiluz <mdiluz!~mdiluz@80.71.2.213> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[18:20:55] *** MrFlibble <MrFlibble!MrFlibble@2.122.46.163> has joined ##vulkan[18:22:16] *** mdiluz <mdiluz!~mdiluz@cpc121308-nmal25-2-0-cust94.19-2.cable.virginm.net> has joined ##vulkan[18:24:22] <Discoloda> exDM69: i am writing a faithful quake 2 renderer, i want to animate them in the shader. since Q2 models are vertex animated, that is a lot of vertex data for a single model. So I am hoping to stuff the data into a storage texture. I was having issues with it before with OpenGL 4. I wanted to avoid issues if I could before starting.[18:24:35] *** mdiluz <mdiluz!~mdiluz@cpc121308-nmal25-2-0-cust94.19-2.cable.virginm.net> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[18:25:27] <exDM69> Discoloda: sounds like an alright solution[18:25:40] <exDM69> Discoloda: you should be able to do it with vertex attributes, though[18:26:08] <exDM69> instead of a single position attribute, you'd put in 2 or 4 position attributes and interpolate in vert shader[18:26:20] <Discoloda> looks like I will need to enable shaderStorageImageArrayDynamicIndexing[18:26:38] *** john1 <john1!~john@host86-147-127-48.range86-147.btcentralplus.com> has joined ##vulkan[18:27:06] <Yaniel> hmm and put position attributes in separate VBOs so you can stream them easily?[18:28:26] <Discoloda> well, im going full bore "draw it all at one time", I have an entity uniform buffer that indicates the storage image that holds the data, the frame and old frame, lerp etc.. a single vkDrawIndexedIndirect should render all md2 models. I have simular functionality working with the BSP models[18:30:15] <Yaniel> maybe put positions into a SSBO then?[18:30:21] *** nitroxis_ <nitroxis_!n@nxs.re> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[18:30:24] <Yaniel> and access them with the index + frame offset[18:31:28] *** nitroxis <nitroxis!n@nxs.re> has joined ##vulkan[18:31:58] *** xissburg <xissburg!~xissburg@unaffiliated/xissburg> has joined ##vulkan[18:32:37] *** vitimiti <vitimiti!~Celtor@unaffiliated/vitimiti> has joined ##vulkan[18:32:41] <Altazimuth> exDM69: mangelis: Closure for earlier. <Quasar`> that was a misbegotten idea :P <Quasar`> it's definitely unnecessary.[18:32:45] <Discoloda> I just wanted to avoid issues and see if there was an article or tutorial on this. I think shaderStorageImageArrayDynamicIndexing would have perplexed me a while.[18:33:03] *** Vanaheim <Vanaheim!~Vanaheim@janus-nat-128-240-225-82.ncl.ac.uk> has joined ##vulkan[18:34:09] *** Vanaheim <Vanaheim!~Vanaheim@janus-nat-128-240-225-82.ncl.ac.uk> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[18:45:10] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!c351a8d8@gateway/web/freenode/ip.195.81.168.216> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[18:45:45] *** spara <spara!~spara@ARennes-258-1-211-56.w2-11.abo.wanadoo.fr> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[18:46:45] *** sunbearc22 <sunbearc22!~sunbear@175.156.83.186> has joined ##vulkan[18:50:31] *** realitix <realitix!~realitix@2a01:e35:8ae3:e230:39d1:399c:adac:94d5> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[18:53:52] *** HuntsMan <HuntsMan!~hunts@x4e343969.dyn.telefonica.de> has joined ##vulkan[18:59:23] *** elect_ <elect_!~elect@business-092-079-135-041.static.arcor-ip.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[19:03:00] *** nsf <nsf!~nsf@jiss.convex.ru> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 1.7.1)[19:10:07] *** realitix <realitix!~realitix@2a01:e35:8ae3:e230:39d1:399c:adac:94d5> has joined ##vulkan[19:28:30] *** slidercrank <slidercrank!~slidercra@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/fifth/slidercrank> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[19:30:48] *** ville <ville!~ville@87-93-106-118.bb.dnainternet.fi> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[19:33:43] *** realitix <realitix!~realitix@2a01:e35:8ae3:e230:39d1:399c:adac:94d5> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[19:35:45] *** spara <spara!~spara@37.171.17.175> has joined ##vulkan[19:35:57] *** ratchetfreak <ratchetfreak!~ratchetfr@ptr-82s3g7l9r42569r41f4.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has joined ##vulkan[19:43:51] *** ImQ009 <ImQ009!~ImQ009@unaffiliated/imq009> has joined ##vulkan[19:46:51] *** ImQ009 <ImQ009!~ImQ009@unaffiliated/imq009> has quit IRC (Max SendQ exceeded)[19:50:55] *** ImQ009 <ImQ009!~ImQ009@unaffiliated/imq009> has joined ##vulkan[20:05:33] *** spara_ <spara_!~spara@ARennes-258-1-211-56.w2-11.abo.wanadoo.fr> has joined ##vulkan[20:08:46] *** spara <spara!~spara@37.171.17.175> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[20:18:22] *** nsf <nsf!~nsf@jiss.convex.ru> has joined ##vulkan[20:18:39] *** derhass <derhass!~derhass@ipservice-092-217-215-117.092.217.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has joined ##vulkan[20:34:01] *** jo90 <jo90!~John90@111.92.56.95> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[20:52:46] *** crankslider <crankslider!~slidercra@ircpuzzles/2015/april-fools/fifth/slidercrank> has joined ##vulkan[20:59:25] *** codegosu <codegosu!codegosu@62.244.48.155> has left ##vulkan[21:03:43] *** jkilpatr <jkilpatr!jkilpatr@nat/redhat/x-xecgmkguujzhlxnp> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[21:21:46] *** spectralwarp <spectralwarp!~spectralw@c-50-131-138-78.hsd1.ca.comcast.net> has joined ##vulkan[21:25:11] *** tambry <tambry!~tambre@769c-6786-1c2f-d48d-0e80-8a31-07d0-2001.dyn.estpak.ee> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[21:51:53] *** Biolunar <Biolunar!Biolunar@dslb-178-001-155-094.178.001.pools.vodafone-ip.de> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)[21:58:12] <Vtec234[m]> Can somebody please explain why people still use dx12 and wtf this thing ( https://www.khronos.org/3dportability ) is, because i'm really not getting it? So now we're getting another "cross platform" api that for some unexplainable reason has a dx12 backend, even though vulkan works fine on windows?[22:00:18] <fazias> web[22:00:27] <ratchetfreak> apple[22:00:33] <fazias> oh yeah[22:00:38] <Yaniel> metal doesn't work fine on windows[22:00:43] <Yaniel> and vulkan doesn't work fine on mac[22:00:55] <fazias> also dx12 thing is nice if doing consoles and appreciate the tools that it has.[22:01:28] <Yaniel> now if certain companies could get their heads out of certain places, we could have a nice thing that would be vulkan[22:01:35] <fazias> :)[22:01:46] <Yaniel> but xbox and ios are doing too well for that[22:01:57] <ratchetfreak> if certain companies got head out of asses the computing world would be a much better place[22:03:45] <ratchetfreak> software patents, drm, vendor lock-in, ...[22:03:47] <fazias> biggest problem is being taken core (hlsl to spirv) so I don't really mind both.[22:04:21] <fazias> though I've also spend lots of time getting very familiar so It wasnt free either.[22:05:05] <Vtec234[m]> oh yeah, that api would have to define a shader language to be transformable into hlsl, spirv and whatever metal uses[22:08:30] <ratchetfreak> translation isn't that big of a deal as long as the input isn't garbage[22:11:44] <goiko> i like vulkan because linux likes vulkan, too ┗(-_-)┛┏(-_-)┓[22:18:51] *** sla_ro|master <sla_ro|master!~sla.ro@95.76.45.217> has quit IRC ()[22:35:50] *** ZexaronS <ZexaronS!~zexpc@cpe-194-152-22-45.static.triera.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[22:37:03] *** goiko <goiko!~goiko@unaffiliated/goiko> has quit IRC (Quit: Despite the constant negative press #covfefe)[22:38:02] *** jkilpatr <jkilpatr!~jkilpatr@2602:30a:c7da:b600:845f:2921:2881:c7ba> has joined ##vulkan[22:46:09] *** ZexaronS <ZexaronS!~zexpc@cpe-194-152-22-45.static.triera.net> has joined ##vulkan[22:47:32] *** LurchMan <LurchMan!~LurchMan@ny01-p01-10ge-xe-2-3-0-1.turnkeyinternet.net> has joined ##vulkan[23:10:59] *** Casandir <Casandir!~Casandir@unaffiliated/casandir> has quit IRC (Quit: "I was not, I was made. 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