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[03:32:53] <tozhu> rmustacc: are you here?
[03:33:44] <tozhu> I have a question regarding to overlay in smartos, my question is what's the controller could manage it, how about OpenFlow?
[03:34:48] <tozhu> and there is no any docs to guide how to use the overlay network,
[03:35:13] <tozhu> could you please show me a simple example if possible? thank yoy
[03:35:20] <tozhu> s/yoy/you/g
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[03:44:05] <tozhu> rmustacc: last question, can I set a shared disk for two KVM in smartos? in case to install Oracle RAC, need the shared disk, if smartos support it, then how to do it?
[03:44:28] <tozhu> thank you very much
[03:46:00] <tozhu> for the link of the sdn, it is for sdc, and there is no command line guide for smartos?
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[03:47:48] <rmustacc> No, you can't share disks.
[03:47:53] <tozhu> rmustacc: okay, thank you very much.
[03:48:22] <tozhu> rmustacc: is there any low level setting? by change smartos source code to implement?
[03:48:44] <tozhu> I remember Sun/Oracle Solaris 10 supports this feature
[03:49:00] <rmustacc> To support what?
[03:49:05] <rmustacc> Sharing a KVM disk?
[03:49:25] <tozhu> yes, share KVM disk
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[03:49:47] <rmustacc> You'd have to change vmadm to let you share the two, but importantly, there's no protocol for scsi reservations, etc.
[03:49:54] <rmustacc> So there's nothing to prevent anything to clobber it, etc.
[03:50:00] <rmustacc> Mostly because it's not scsi.
[03:50:00] <tozhu> share zone disk, I'm not sure if KVM could supports
[03:51:29] <tozhu> do you mean, the KVM VM talk to the storage, it mostly use non-scsi command?
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[03:51:52] <tozhu> just ata/sata command?
[03:52:23] <rmustacc> It's generally virtio.
[03:53:01] <modernpacifist> tozhu: The best you could hope for is for the two VMs to have the same virtual disk attached, but only one having it mounted at a particular time
[03:53:17] <tozhu> rmustacc: okay
[03:53:21] <modernpacifist> And that would likely be with some modification of vmadm to get to that point
[03:54:17] <tozhu> modernpacifist: thank you, I'll take a look if could modify vmadm to implement the feature,
[03:55:27] <modernpacifist> Thats assuming KVM actually behaves as expected. I noticed that VMWare allowed multiple VMs to mount the same .vmdk which I thought was insane
[03:55:35] <modernpacifist> Well, attach as virtual hardware, not mount
[03:57:12] <tozhu> modernpacifist: do you mean, need KVM support multiple VM to attache the same disk?
[03:58:04] <modernpacifist> tozhu: Yes - I'm not sure KVM will happily go along with that, even if you get past enabling it in vmadm (or bypassing vmadm)
[04:00:39] <tozhu> this way could support, but I'm not sure if it's possible in smartos/kvm
[04:01:04] <modernpacifist> tozhu: That is more for KVM/QEMU on Linux. That doesn't guarentee that it will work on Illumos KVM. Even if the pieces that support that are present, they probably aren't very well tested if at all since its a fairly uncommon use case (and not possible via JPC KVMs)
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[04:01:50] <tozhu> okay, got it.
[04:01:57] <tozhu> modernpacifist: thank you very much
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[04:35:29] <rmustacc> tozhu: In general, I would assume that going down this path will lead to data loss.
[04:35:32] <rmustacc> Or corruption.
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[04:40:12] <tozhu> yes, it depend on the situation,
[04:40:24] <tozhu> for most application, it's true.
[04:40:48] <tozhu> bye the way, it's possible to build SDC from source in SmartOS?
[04:42:44] <tozhu> I'm going to develop RDS in SDC
[04:43:04] <modernpacifist> tozhu: RDS?
[04:43:06] <tozhu> seems Oracle RAC will not be supported
[04:43:16] <coldmethod> rmustacc: is there a way to see which instruction set is being read w.r.t. unhandled msr?
[04:43:18] <tozhu> yes, Relation Database Service
[04:43:45] <arekinath> tozhu: you can build the platform image happily from smartos, but building the service zone images is probably not possible -- mg relies on a bunch of SDC bits (so it's kind of self-hosting)
[04:44:02] <arekinath> well I mean... it's probably possible but not with the scripts in mg as they are today at least
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[04:44:07] <modernpacifist> tozhu: So presumably your trying to work around the lack of shared storage somehow by attaching a zvol to two KVMs
[04:44:16] <modernpacifist> tozhu: Why not just a secondary replica?
[04:44:41] <tozhu> due to RAC(shared disk) is not supported by KVM or Zone in SmartOS
[04:45:20] <modernpacifist> tozhu: No as in, running a second (slave/secondary/replica) instance of the relational database in question
[04:46:11] <tozhu> also, need to avoid fragment in ZFS for database,
[04:48:20] <modernpacifist> I'm not sure I see how that relates
[04:48:25] <tozhu> modernpacifist: that's basically services for RDS, but also, need backup / restore / snapshot for DB
[04:49:01] <tozhu> clone for DB, DB provision and so on
[04:49:14] <tozhu> also, need DB cluster,
[04:49:31] <tozhu> a log of things
[04:50:19] <modernpacifist> What your describing could be accomplished with zfs snapshot (with zfs send/recv to get onto alternate storage) + running a primary and hot secondary of whatever the databse server is
[04:51:15] <rmustacc> coldmethod: What do you mean by instruction set here?
[04:51:17] <modernpacifist> Plus, the aspect of mention of sharing a disk between 2 KVMs implies that both the KVMs are on the same host (because of no shared storage), so that doesn't do anything for clustering
[04:53:30] <coldmethod> rmustacc: Noticing a kvm stall and every time that happens, I see unhandled wrmsr: 0x50cc47 data 90
[04:53:58] <rmustacc> Yeah, there's no instruction set.
[04:54:05] <coldmethod> Oh
[04:54:07] <rmustacc> A MSR is a machine specific register. You'll need to check the Windows docs.
[04:54:11] <rmustacc> Erm, not Windows
[04:54:11] <rmustacc> Intel
[04:54:14] <rmustacc> Sorry.
[04:54:16] <rmustacc> Is this Windows?
[04:54:20] <coldmethod> Correct
[04:54:48] <rmustacc> Modern windows generally needs to see the real cpu and its feature set
[04:55:06] <coldmethod> So, cpu_type: host. Got it
[04:55:18] <modernpacifist> rmustacc: Is that what was causing Win 10 to panic on install boot?
[04:55:20] <rmustacc> Yeah, but I don't know what that MSR is
[04:55:44] <rmustacc> modernpacifist: I can't say. Only guess.
[04:55:55] <rmustacc> I know that Windows 10 requires something more recent than a generic amd64 system.
[04:56:06] <rmustacc> You can probably find rhel and other bug reports on it.
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[04:56:20] <coldmethod> I tried to look up the hex in Vol.3 of Intel Dev Guides for MSRs but couldn't find it. I guess it's a serialised value
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[04:57:12] <rmustacc> coldmethod: It's been several years since I've looked at that, so I'd probably double check the KVM source.
[04:57:35] <tozhu> and also, different kinds of DB will be supported, such as Oracle, SQL server, PostgreSQL and MySQL which is used most popular.
[04:57:43] <coldmethod> rmustacc: Thanks. I'd try -cpu host.
[04:58:25] <modernpacifist> tozhu: Everything that I described can be implemented (although in a less performant manner) with KVMs as well as zones
[04:59:10] <tozhu> modernpacifist: I prefer Zone or LX, but not KVM
[04:59:44] <tozhu> because DB application requires low latency and IOPS,
[04:59:51] <tozhu> Zone and LX offer that
[05:00:01] <modernpacifist> tozhu: Well you'd be able to provide postgres/mysql in OS, MSSQL in KVM (or SQL 2016 in LX maybe), no idea about oracle
[05:01:03] <modernpacifist> Add in some script that uses zfs snapshot at whatever interval and ships it off somewhere and reciprocal stuff to pull a snapshot and build a new VM out of it and your set
[05:01:04] <rmustacc> coldmethod: OK, give it a shot. Sorry I don't have more cycles to really dig into that at the moment.
[05:01:57] <tozhu> I hope everything could be tested well in SDC and intergrade with SDC, so I hope could build SDC from source in SmartOS
[05:02:20] <coldmethod> rmustacc: No worries. I'll try and let you know in a month. LOL cause it takes some time to reproduce (:D)
[05:02:30] <modernpacifist> tozhu: I'm not clear on why you need to build your own triton
[05:02:52] <rmustacc> OK
[05:03:12] <tozhu> anyone could give me help on that? I'm going to offline, so, if had any advice, would you please send me email: hsienwen.chu at gmail dot com ?
[05:03:35] <tozhu> modernpacifist: I'll response you later
[05:03:40] <tozhu> rmustacc: thank you very much
[05:06:39] <rmustacc> tozhu: I'd echo modernpacifist, you probably don't need to actually build everything.
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[09:44:00] <bsmithx10> lolol, #manatee
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[10:08:30] <KermitTheFragger> bsmithx10: well since it was an operator error I guess it could happen anywhere
[10:08:37] <KermitTheFragger> then again: "Regular backups seem to also only be taken once per 24 hours, though YP has not yet been able to figure out where they are stored. According to JN these don’t appear to be working, producing files only a few bytes in size."
[10:08:43] <KermitTheFragger> is quite troubling...
[10:09:34] <KermitTheFragger> but yeah I guess where your in a tight spot like this your better of with ZFS on your side then LVM + RSync...
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[10:14:51] <bsmithx10> KermitTheFragger: It just kills me ...
[10:15:01] <bsmithx10> ZFS CoW, Snap Snap Snap Snap Snap
[10:16:10] <bsmithx10> Why people deal with the linux mess /shakesfist
[10:16:39] <modernpacifist> Because its what AWS and the rest offer?
[10:16:49] <bsmithx10> modernpacifist: bingo
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[12:32:29] <jzu_> what Intel NICs people are using for KVM?
[12:32:45] <jzu_> I'd need to pick one from Fujitsu and they offer I210 and I350 it seems
[12:37:32] <wilbury> we use something that e1000 driver supports
[12:37:39] <wilbury> e1000 or igb or ixgbe
[12:37:49] <wilbury> so check driver_aliases
[12:38:12] <jzu_> I350 seems to be e1000
[12:38:59] <jzu_> hmm, is driver_aliases a file somewhere on the node?
[12:39:26] <jzu_> ah, in /etc
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[12:45:09] <jzu_> hmm seems to be igb
[12:45:22] <jzu_> so it's not e1000 then
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[14:38:20] <nbjoerg> jzu_?
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[15:02:54] <jzu_> arg: I'll use that one most likely, but should be the same
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[15:04:46] <arg> jzu_: Yeah, it's the same chipset, just with less ports. It'll use the same driver;.
[15:10:06] <nbjoerg> jzu_: did you see my remark for the logadm problem the other night?
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[15:28:48] <jzu_> nbjoerg: yeah, I'll look into it tonite :)
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[15:34:41] <nbjoerg> good, thanks
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[15:53:07] <bennabiy> Can someone give me the rundown on backup of zones within smartos, and how it is with zvols? If I make a snapshot of a zone, do I need to have the total zvol amount of space free for each snapshot?
[15:53:12]
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[15:56:03] <bennabiy> I mostly deal in KVMs, and am guessing that I can snapshot the dataset and only take up the delta of changes, but if the underlying volume in kvm is encrypted, I guess I would have to either snapshot the whole encrypted thing, or from within the KVM make a backup and rsync etc?
[15:56:14] <nbjoerg> a snapshot will effectively consume no more space than the zvol at peak
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[15:56:41] <bennabiy> nbjoerg: but does that space have to be available at creation of the snapshot?
[15:57:09] <nbjoerg> I don't think trim is used to write zeroes at the moment, so with disk encryption in the vm, you will likely see the full size
[15:57:23] <nbjoerg> snapshot itself consumes almost no space
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[15:57:40] <nbjoerg> changes after the snapshot do
[15:57:42] <bennabiy> yes, but I thought it was different with zvols from regular zfs
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[16:37:55] <bennabiy> technically, isn't zvol the equiv of raw disk / hardware, so needs to be replicated in full, vs filesystem where just changes can be replicated.
[16:40:05] <bennabiy> because a zvol is the freespace of the max size as well as occupied... so if a zvol is more than half the available pool, it is unable to be snapshotted?
[16:40:17] <bennabiy> am I thinking right about this?
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[16:42:34] <nbjoerg> I don't think it reserves its full size, but others might know better
[16:43:03] <calmh> the refreserv has an effect like that. if you have a refreserv and a snapshot, we must be able to add at least the refresrv amount of data to the pool, so it will consume whatever it actually consumes plus the refreserv
[16:43:14] <nbjoerg> more specifically: I think zvol will reserve its initial size and it adds the change size to that for the effective reservation
[16:43:31] <nbjoerg> (with one snapshot)
[16:44:08] <nbjoerg> so yes, encrypted volumes are likely highly expensive
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[16:44:34] <nbjoerg> side question: has anyone ever thought qemu to implement trim as zero writes?
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[17:03:54] <rmustacc> nbjoerg: Take a look at the 'eager zero' stuff that Delphix has does. It's less a trim and more of a way to force allocation of the storage.
[17:04:43] <nbjoerg> well, the idea with zero-on-trim would be to make lz4 get rid of most of the allocation
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[17:20:08] <nahamu> nbjoerg: sometimes to shrink a zvol I write out zeros inside a VM...
[17:20:17] <nahamu> (with compression on, of course)
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[17:20:50] <nbjoerg> yes
[17:21:03] <nbjoerg> that doesn't help if you have an encrypted file system though
[17:21:19] <nbjoerg> but you can configure e.g. linux's cryptsetup to pass trim through
[17:22:08] <nahamu> I see.
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[17:23:33] <nahamu> Though in theory TRIM'ing all the free space of an encrypted filesystem allows an attacker to focus on the blocks that contain data rather than leaving them around to obscure which blocks are data and which are garbage.
[17:23:52] <bennabiy> nbjoerg: if I have a bare VM I created, it made zvols, correct?
[17:23:59] <nahamu> But I could see that being less of a concern than capacity in some situations.
[17:24:14] <bennabiy> nahamu: exactly
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[17:24:31] <nbjoerg> bennabiy: if you use KVM, every disk will have a zvol
[17:24:43] <bennabiy> nbjoerg: ok
[17:25:25] <bennabiy> nbjoerg: so best to handle backups from within the kvm, if I do not want to replicate the empty space?
[17:25:43] <nbjoerg> it really depends on your backup strategy
[17:26:29] <nbjoerg> in my environment, I rarely do full VM snapshots
[17:26:40] <nbjoerg> but backups of the actual data I care about
[17:27:00] <nbjoerg> that said, I don't use encryption inside the VMs either, so the occassional (temporary) snapshots aren't as bad
[17:27:34] <nbjoerg> if you play with the tuning options a bit and can ensure that the VMs are not too active during the time it takes for the copy of the zvol snapshot to happen
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[17:27:40] <nbjoerg> it shouldn't be too bad
[17:29:40] <bennabiy> yes. I am just migrating my backup strategy from the linux lvm raw snapshot to zfs
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[20:07:17] <abates> Is there an ARM SDC/Triton ?
[20:08:29] <rmustacc> Nope.
[20:08:42] <rmustacc> I started working on an arm port a couple years back.
[20:08:52] <rmustacc> But it stalled.
[20:09:03] <rmustacc> (ARM port for illumos)
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[20:41:55] <abates> @rmustacc, I see, thanks for the info
[20:42:09] <abates> sad day, project/idea crushed
[20:42:10] <abates> ohwell
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[20:43:32] <abates> I was thinking of throwing together an ARM docker swarm infrastructure managed by triton
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[20:46:54] <rmustacc> abates: Yeah, I hear you. Unfortunately, I just haven't had the cycles to really focus on it.
[20:47:09] <rmustacc> Though maybe with the more standardized ARMv8 stuff, it's time for a fresh start.
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[20:54:30] <abates> :+1:
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