[00:05:32] <lightguard_jp> bleathem: Nope
[00:06:09] <hannelita> bleathem:
[00:06:11] <hannelita> yes
[00:06:37] <hannelita> ppl here are pretty disappointed with the situation
[00:06:55] <hannelita> I received some comments and emails :(
[00:07:18] <lightguard_jp> hannelita: Would you mind summarising and emailing me and Shane?
[00:07:33] <hannelita> I am writing a post right now
[00:08:28] <hannelita> didnt have time to do it westerday
[00:08:32] <hannelita> *yesterday
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[00:13:18] <oranheim> lightguard_jp: I'll catch up with you tomorrow regarding the mail test and as7
[00:13:29] <lightguard_jp> oranheim: great, thanks
[00:13:33] <lightguard_jp> oranheim: I suggest 05
[00:13:54] <lightguard_jp> asking stuartdouglas and / or aslak about modifying as7 via admin calls in the tests
[00:14:05] <oranheim> it's a good night for me (in oslo)
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[00:14:13] <oranheim> lightguard_jp: ok
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[00:28:24] <clerum> lightguard_jp: sorry I missed the meeting. had some issues with food poisoning
[00:29:09] <clerum> looks like you have mail handled for the moment
[00:29:23] <clerum> I just wanted to slide it all into one api and one impl
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[00:49:26] <lightguard_jp> clerum: Okay, cool.
[00:49:39] <lightguard_jp> Not exactly sure how to make that work with all the templating though
[00:50:33] <clerum> @Requires
[00:50:37] <clerum> is what I was thinking
[00:50:47] <lightguard_jp> clerum: Yes, that may work well.
[00:51:24] <lightguard_jp> I'm wondering if there's a bug with that though. We've seen it with Faces and jodatime. Joda Time is an optional dep from i18n
[00:51:38] <lightguard_jp> And if you don't have it on the cp it doesn't deploy
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[01:28:18] <bleathem> can anyone tell me how to point AS7 to an exploded directory for "exloded deployment"?
[01:28:28] <bleathem> or at least, where the docs are for doing that?
[01:29:03] <jamezp> Point to an exploded directory?
[01:29:54] <jamezp> bleathem: Are you installing the application via the web console?
[01:30:14] <bleathem> no, so far I've just been dropping wars in the deployements folder
[01:30:29] <bleathem> jamezp: I guess there is some CLI I should be using?
[01:30:42] <jamezp> Ah, the console is the preferred approach.
[01:30:50] <jamezp> https://docs.jboss.org/author/display/AS7/Application+deployment
[01:30:54] <bleathem> https://docs.jboss.org/author/display/AS7/Application+deployment
[01:30:56] <bleathem> yeah
[01:31:00] <bleathem> reading there
[01:31:00] <jamezp> Hahaha
[01:31:25] <jamezp> The web console is pretty intuitive IMO.
[01:31:25] <bleathem> this kind of thing really should be in a "quick start" guide
[01:31:34] <bleathem> ok
[01:31:37] <bleathem> will try the console
[01:31:53] <jamezp> You can also do it via a maven plugin too.
[01:31:55] <bleathem> what port is it on?
[01:31:58] <jamezp> That's what the quickstarts use.
[01:32:10] <jamezp> Default is 8080, http://localhost:8080
[01:32:24] <bleathem> ah, it links to the console
[01:32:25] <bleathem> nice
[01:32:27] <jamezp> There is a link on the landing page to get to the console.
[01:32:28] <bleathem> thanks!
[01:32:31] <jamezp> np
[01:36:51] <bleathem> the console only seems to let me deploy files
[01:36:55] * bleathem reading the docs
[01:39:41] <jamezp> Ah, so you want to deploy an directory.
[01:41:23] <jamezp> bleathem: I *think* you can only deploy files. e.g. WAR's, EAR's, etc.
[01:41:40] <bleathem> that was my original q:
[01:41:40] <bleathem> can anyone tell me how to point AS7 to an exploded directory for "exloded deployment"?
[01:41:40] <bleathem> ;)
[01:42:12] <bleathem> hmmm
[01:42:19] <bleathem> I thought you could deploy a directory
[01:42:19] <jamezp> I just misunderstood :-)
[01:42:28] <bleathem> then you just had to update a single file in the directory
[01:42:36] <bleathem> and AS7 would redploy
[01:42:56] <jamezp> I think you still need to deploy a WAR, but deploy it as exploded.
[01:43:20] <jamezp> I'm not 100% sure though.
[01:45:02] <jamezp> I'm assuming your just trying to avoid a make change, recompile, deploy scenario.
[01:46:11] <bleathem> jamezp: that's exactly what I want to avoid
[01:46:20] <bleathem> particularly for chaning html/js/css files
[01:46:31] <jamezp> I had a feeling.
[01:47:05] <bleathem> aparently forge supports this with AS7
[01:47:10] <bleathem> ping lincolnthree1
[01:47:22] <jamezp> bleathem: You might want to look at the <deployment-scanner />.
[01:47:29] <bleathem> ok
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[01:48:52] <jamezp> bleathem: Maybe point the path attribute to your exploded dir.
[01:49:10] <bleathem> I wonder if you can have mulutiple scanners
[01:50:46] <bleathem> huh, it deployed
[01:51:33] <bleathem> hmm
[01:51:45] <bleathem> I'm going to need to get jRebel wired up to make this work
[01:52:00] <jamezp> Not working?
[01:52:22] <jamezp> Are you using eclipse or IDEA?
[01:55:00] <bleathem> using IDEA
[01:55:22] <bleathem> but it doesn't seem to copy changed xhtml files into the target/<exploded war> folder
[01:55:27] <bleathem> I think I need jRebel to do that
[01:55:44] <jamezp> Right it won't to  that.
[01:56:19] <stuartdouglas> I actually got fakereplace to do that a little while ago
[01:56:53] <stuartdouglas> it starts opens a socket in the AS, and then the maven plugin sends any changed resources over the wire as part of the build
[01:57:04] <stuartdouglas> still very experimental though
[01:57:12] <jamezp> That's awesome.
[01:57:29] <stuartdouglas> it also sends the changed classes
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[02:09:00] <hannelita> lightguard_jp: ping?
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[04:04:43] <lightguard_jp_aw> hannelita: pong
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[04:05:12] <hannelita> lightguard_jp_aw: Blogged a summary of what ppl think about the changes
[04:05:32] <lightguard_jp> link?
[04:06:03] <hannelita> http://hannelita.wordpress.com/2011/09/28/seam-3-whats-going-on/
[04:06:43] <hannelita> It's a summary of the 38 emails and some Twitter DMs I received =S
[04:06:51] <lightguard_jp> thanks
[04:07:07] <hannelita> At leats here in Brazil ppl got bad thoughts about it
[04:07:27] <hannelita> *least
[04:07:41] <lightguard_jp> Yeah, it happened everywhere.
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[04:09:32] <hannelita> lightguard_jp: thanks
[04:09:53] <lightguard_jp> dinner time
[04:10:00] <lightguard_jp> Thanks hannelita, I'll read it when I get back
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[05:53:59] <lightguard_jp> rruss: Still around?
[05:54:53] <rruss> lightguard_jp: maybe :)
[05:59:09] <lincolnthree1> hannelita: nice post on Seam 3
[05:59:28] <lincolnthree1> For anyone interested in OpenShift & Forge: http://vimeo.com/29755371
[05:59:39] <hannelita> lincolnthree1: Thanks :)
[06:00:01] <hannelita> lincolnthree1: hope it helps ppl get a little less desperate
[06:01:47] <lincolnthree1> hannelita: we are taking all of the feedback into consideration and trying to come up with something that everyone will be happy with :)
[06:02:38] <hannelita> lincolnthree1: well, as I said to lightguard_jp, that was the feedback I received :/
[06:03:03] <lincolnthree1> yeah, we know we screwed up the message :)
[06:03:13] <hannelita> the 10 items are a summary and some transcriptions of their opinions
[06:03:55] <hannelita> I think we should "reestablish connection" with ommunity now; they need to calm down and relax
[06:04:22] <lincolnthree1> hannelita: yeah, working on that part :)
[06:04:25] <hannelita> Blogging about their concerns helps to show we care about them
[06:05:40] <hannelita> unfortunately some desperate ppl said bad things about red hat. I'm trying to exaplain the situation for these guys
[06:05:43] <hannelita> :(
[06:05:58] <lincolnthree1> red hat loves you
[06:06:16] <hannelita> hahaha
[06:06:48] <hannelita> some guys here got a little out of control
[06:06:51] <hannelita> anyway
[06:07:04] <hannelita> hope I can help
[06:07:17] <lincolnthree1> you are helping already :)
[06:07:20] <lincolnthree1> we aren't going anywhere
[06:07:28] <lincolnthree1> if anything, I see our community getting bigger and stronger
[06:07:35] <hannelita> That was an experience to show a weakness related to communication :/
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[15:03:57] <jbossbot> git [social] push develop d882c1b.. Antoine Sabot-Durand Adding exclusion for m2e
[15:03:57] <jbossbot> git [social] push develop 5b760c1.. Antoine Sabot-Durand Switch to Scribe 1.2.3
[15:03:57] <jbossbot> git [social] push develop URL: http://github.com/seam/social/compare/9a27df2...5b760c1
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[16:19:01] <jbossbot> git [social] push develop 3a8171e.. Antoine Sabot-Durand Refactoring to simplify packages naming
[16:19:01] <jbossbot> git [social] push develop URL: http://github.com/seam/social/compare/5b760c1...3a8171e
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[16:40:09] <jbossbot> git [remoting] push develop 39c7fec.. Jozef Hartinger SEAMREMOTING-48
[16:40:10] <jbossbot> jira [SEAMREMOTING-48] Functional test failures after migration to Ajocado [Open (Unresolved) Bug, Minor, Jozef Hartinger] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMREMOTING-48
[16:40:10] <jbossbot> git [remoting] push develop URL: http://github.com/seam/remoting/compare/ca6d498...39c7fec
[16:41:31] <hannelita> hi all :)
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[16:55:03] <bleathem> hi hannelita!
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[16:55:44] <hannelita> Question - Can I officially say that any of changes proposed are definitive yet? :)
[16:56:06] <hannelita> I am really suffering with lots of emails/tweets/comments after my blog post :x
[17:00:24] <lightguard_jp> No
[17:00:45] <lightguard_jp> Just tell people to calm down and wait a week or so.
[17:00:56] <lightguard_jp> Nothing is going to happen until at least after JavaOne.
[17:01:10] <lightguard_jp> Even then anything major will take a while
[17:01:24] <lightguard_jp> It's business as usual until further notice
[17:02:36] <hannelita> ok, everyone seems to be confused and/or desperate asking if this is definitive or not
[17:02:57] <hannelita> thanks lightguard_jp
[17:04:12] <lightguard_jp> hannelita: np
[17:05:20] <lightguard_jp> We've learned from our mistakes and we're going to be announcing anything prematurely again, however, we will do our best to keep the community in the loop as soon as we have complete messages to send
[17:05:33] <lightguard_jp> We're not going to be giving out half baked messages
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[17:07:26] <hannelita> ok, thanks lightguard_jp :)
[17:07:52] <lightguard_jp> Sorry, we're NOT announcing anything prematurely
[17:07:56] <lightguard_jp> :)
[17:09:53] <hannelita> [I got the idea]
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[17:15:20] <clerum> Really I think a lot of people are confused at what seam 3 is
[17:15:50] <clerum> I don't think they understand that the core was ripped out and standardized and is no longer "seam"
[17:16:46] <lightguard_jp> clerum: That very well could be
[17:16:55] <lightguard_jp> I thought we'd made that message at least very clear
[17:17:04] <lightguard_jp> But of course calling it Seam 3 was a bad choice.
[17:17:13] <clerum> and that "Seam 3" is really EE6/CDI with some nice things added in but not 100% nessasary
[17:17:48] <lightguard_jp> Yes, that's been the message we've been sending, but it doesn't seem to have lodged very well.
[17:18:02] <clerum> lightguard_jp: it has been made clear, but unfortuantly that requires people to have picked up on it :-(
[17:18:31] <clerum> I don't know how you fight that other than reiterating that every time you make an announcment
[17:18:50] <lightguard_jp> Yeah.
[17:18:51] <lincolnthree> It all just takes time.
[17:18:57] <clerum> and worse most people just read the headline or the tweet
[17:19:19] <lightguard_jp> Yeah, that's a problem with written communication.
[17:19:21] <clerum> they read RIP Seam and then that's their impression
[17:19:28] <lightguard_jp> Little different when you have to sit in a presentation
[17:19:32] <clerum> it will work out in time
[17:19:41] <lightguard_jp> I'm not worried
[17:20:04] <lightguard_jp> Things are a little crazy now but I'm confident we'll have a good end of the journey with this.
[17:20:23] <clerum> it's just tough with something like seam because the goal is to standardize what is developed
[17:20:31] <clerum> so every iteration it's going to change
[17:21:00] <clerum> and become smaller and different as more fo the code move to EE6/EE7/etc
[17:21:22] <lightguard_jp> Yep
[17:21:37] <clerum> a good thing but just different from what people are used to
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[17:21:43] <clerum> and tough to explain
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[17:29:21] <hannelita> Hope ppl dont throw rocks on me during my JbossInBossa presentation haha
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[17:35:49] <lightguard_jp> hannelita: You'll be fine
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[17:36:52] <hannelita> lightguard_jp: Just joking. I will tell ppl to calm down and wait, as you said
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[17:45:47] <lightguard_jp> hannelita: :)
[17:45:59] <clerum> on the plus side people are emotional about it which means they like the project and are invested in it
[17:46:11] <clerum> and are fighting for it's direction
[17:46:12] <lightguard_jp> clerum: Good point
[17:46:53] <clerum> if you heard ** Crickets ** that would be much worse
[17:47:30] <hannelita> yes, as I said to lincolnthree yesterday, the main reason to write about community opinion is to show we care aout them
[17:47:40] <hannelita> *about
[17:48:42] <hannelita> the problem is that desperate seems to make ppl loose their ability of understanding the situation
[17:51:32] <jose_freitas_> I think that there was a really big change between seam 2 and seam 3
[17:52:14] <jose_freitas_> this would eventually cause a gap between what people were expecting and what seam 3 provided
[17:52:58] <jose_freitas_> And besides that, I think people get used to the frameworky (unfortunately) way of building things
[17:53:04] <jose_freitas_> got*
[17:53:42] <jose_freitas_> and now, they are kinda lost with all the flexibility provided by this new platform
[17:54:28] <lightguard_jp> jose_freitas_: Great points
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[17:55:09] <jose_freitas> this you got my last message "and now, they are kinda lost with all the flexibility provided by this new platform" ?
[17:55:16] <jose_freitas> did*
[17:55:25] <clerum> yep
[17:56:31] <lightguard_jp> Yep
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[20:04:25] <lincolnthree> http://www.dzone.com/links/forge_or_grails_watch_this_then_decide_building_a.html vote please!
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[20:21:57] <bleathem> lincolnthree: voted
[20:22:02] <lincolnthree> bleathem: ty :)
[20:22:12] <bleathem> np
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[20:35:36] <lightguard_jp> As have I
[20:36:05] <lfryc> lincolnthree:
[20:36:11] <lfryc> ping
[20:36:34] <lfryc> lincolnthree: you are servlet filters guru, right? ;-)
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[20:45:33] <lightguard_jp> Gotta leave for a bit.
[20:46:20] <bleathem> seeya jason
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[20:56:43] <bleathem> lfryc: we might be able to leverage lincolnthree's rewrite project to do this for us
[20:57:12] <lincolnthree> hey lfryc
[20:57:22] <lincolnthree> http://ocpsoft.com/rewrite/
[20:57:45] <lincolnthree> So my first question is this:
[20:57:51] <lincolnthree> How do you know that two resources are the same?
[20:58:09] <bleathem> same path I guess
[20:58:49] <bleathem> but that seems like to trivial an answer - or you woldn't have asked
[20:58:49] <lincolnthree> if its the same path, wouldn't it be the same thing?
[20:58:57] <lincolnthree> bleathem: yeah
[20:59:10] <lincolnthree> once you know that, and you can keep track of it, then you just create a custom rewrite rule
[20:59:12] <lincolnthree>         .defineRule()          .when(Direction.isInbound().and(Path.matches("/some/{page}/.*/")))          .perform(Forward.to("/new-{page}/"));
[20:59:16] <lincolnthree> except more like:
[20:59:51] <bleathem> and that would result in the html sent to the browser containing only a single link to the resource?
[20:59:56] <lincolnthree>         .defineRule()          .when(Direction.isOutbound().and(Path.matches(***duplicate resource***)))          .perform(Substiture.with(***original resource***));
[21:00:11] <lincolnthree> ah, no.
[21:00:24] <lincolnthree> i misunderstood
[21:00:46] <lincolnthree> this wouldn't stop duplicate links from being rendered
[21:00:51] <lincolnthree> but it could make sure they are all teh same link
[21:01:08] <lincolnthree> i thought the JSF resource handling library already did that though
[21:01:12] <lincolnthree> why do you need to re implement this?
[21:01:20] <bleathem> 1 sec
[21:01:32] <lfryc> lincolnthree: yeah, problem is, JSF is rendering multiple <script> for the same location
[21:02:01] <lfryc> lincolnthree: we are basically rewriting what's in @ResourceDependency and provide own requestPath for each JSF library/resource
[21:02:10] <clerum> wow this is a super annoying issue - http://java.net/jira/browse/JAVASERVERFACES-2083
[21:02:12] <jbossbot> jira [JAVASERVERFACES-2083] composite component with componentType causes Warning [Open (Unresolved) Bug, Major, rogerk] http://java.net/jira/browse/JAVASERVERFACES-2083
[21:02:15] <lfryc> lincolnthree: then several scripts points to one path
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[21:02:41] <lfryc> lincolnthree: but JSF doesn't handle it well, it renders <script> for each component's script dependency
[21:02:50] <lincolnthree> hmmm
[21:03:00] <lincolnthree> that script links to a JS file, right?
[21:03:04] <lincolnthree> not an inline script?
[21:03:06] <lfryc> yep
[21:03:21] <lfryc> leading into script executed multiple times
[21:03:24] <lincolnthree> and this is using <h:outputScript> ?
[21:03:43] * bleathem is getting a better understanding of the problem
[21:03:48] <lfryc> it is actually created there...
[21:03:56] <lincolnthree> what is created?
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[21:04:09] <bleathem> we are mapping many .js files into one uber .js file
[21:04:13] <lfryc> https://gist.github.com/1251612
[21:04:16] <bleathem> so the components depend on individual files
[21:04:25] <bleathem> but the js files are combined at build time
[21:04:39] <bleathem> (this is all for mobile optimisation btw)
[21:04:53] <bleathem> now when each component requests a specific js file
[21:05:05] <bleathem> it gets replaced with a request to an uber js file
[21:05:07] <lfryc> it creates renderer (ScriptRenderer) for each component resource and injects it into <h:head>
[21:05:15] <bleathem> and we end up with multiple requests to the uber js file
[21:05:19] <lfryc> since it is internal API, we can't overwrite that
[21:05:24] <bleathem> did I describe that correctly lfryc?
[21:05:31] * lfryc is checking
[21:05:43] <lfryc> bleathem: yeah, you are correct
[21:06:15] <bleathem> so lincolnthree, the stuff built into JSF to take care of this isn't aware of the mapping we have going on
[21:06:35] <bleathem> and rewrting {Stylesheet|Script}Renderer isn't portable
[21:07:34] <lfryc> JSF is doing check that no multiple resources are renderer to page, but on the library:name basis, so it doesn't help much :-/
[21:08:16] <lincolnthree> lfryc: why aren't you using the same library:name ?
[21:08:42] <bleathem> lincolnthree: because we are merging/minifing the js files
[21:08:58] <bleathem> and map the library:name dependencies to the uber-js files
[21:09:55] <lfryc> lincolnthree: library:name is written on components level, we would have to switch component implementation when switching between not-packed / packed
[21:10:16] <bleathem> so what we would like to determine:
[21:10:16] <bleathem> 1) is there a better JSF-way of doing this (we don't think there is)
[21:10:16] <bleathem> 2) can ReWrite help us with this?
[21:11:12] <bleathem> and failing 1) and 2), Lukas has his own servlet filter that he can't quite get to work and could use some pointers on
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[21:12:24] <lincolnthree> lfryc: bleathemwell, I think there is an alternative to both of these issues
[21:12:33] <bleathem> cool!
[21:12:55] <lincolnthree> If I'm understanding this right, and I'm not sure that I am, your problems are caused because you want to be able to switch between hosting a JS and minified-JS file?
[21:13:26] <lincolnthree> You have to be careful with filters because they can actually break random things in the app.
[21:13:53] <bleathem> the components specify a dependency on individual (small) js files
[21:14:12] <lincolnthree> and you want to switch between that and an Uber JS file?
[21:14:13] <bleathem> we combine those js files into a couple big (but minified) js files
[21:14:21] <bleathem> right
[21:14:33] <lincolnthree> my first question is
[21:14:34] <lfryc> yep, we know how to sort our dependencies and we leave other scripts untouched
[21:14:46] <bleathem> the components dependency on the small file gets mapped into the big file
[21:14:53] <lincolnthree> why are you doing that instead of just serving a min or non-min version of the uber file?
[21:15:15] <bleathem> maybe we should voice chat this
[21:15:19] <bleathem> it would be way quicker
[21:15:37] <bleathem> do you have the minutes for that lincolnthree?
[21:15:37] <lincolnthree> yes please
[21:15:37] <lfryc> I agree
[21:15:44] <bleathem> hangout then
[21:15:44] <lincolnthree> i was going to suggest it
[21:15:48] <lincolnthree> ;)
[21:16:27] <bleathem> hang out started
[21:16:29] <bleathem> invites sent
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[22:55:12] <jbossbot> git [core] push master 2d03d2c.. Lincoln Baxter, III SEAMFORGE-344
[22:55:14] <jbossbot> jira [SEAMFORGE-344] Varargs options are not picking up unused command parameters [Closed (Done) Bug, Major, Lincoln Baxter III] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMFORGE-344
[22:55:14] <jbossbot> git [core] push master URL: http://github.com/forge/core/compare/ca17c59...2d03d2c
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