[00:00:18] <jbossbot> git [core] push master a03d868.. Lincoln Baxter, III SEAMFORGE-324
[00:00:19] <jbossbot> jira [SEAMFORGE-324] Running setup faces causes an error [Closed (Done) Bug, Major, Lincoln Baxter III] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMFORGE-324
[00:00:19] <jbossbot> git [core] push master 633efc8.. Lincoln Baxter, III Trying to get same-version hotloading working
[00:00:19] <jbossbot> git [core] push master URL: http://github.com/forge/core/compare/33f5e96...633efc8
[00:04:43] <nickarls> stuartdouglas, lightguard_jp: ngh, there *was* a printstacktrace own my own that had been left behind. I should have gone to bed a few hours earlier. *sigh*
[00:05:24] <nickarls> "when a bug is too strange to be true, it probably is"
[00:05:33] * nickarls falls asleep
[00:05:33] <stuartdouglas> You probably would have picked that up in about 5 minutes after a nights sleep :-)
[00:08:27] <lightguard_jp> Hate it when that happens
[00:11:28] <lightguard_jp> sbryzak: Anything you can think of that we need to talk about in the meeting? Beta03?
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[00:15:22] <sbryzak> lightguard_jp: hmm, probably just the beta
[00:15:26] <sbryzak> actually
[00:15:31] <sbryzak> we need to still talk about logging
[00:15:36] <sbryzak> because ken wasn't there last week
[00:15:47] <sbryzak> i know he had a concern about the new package name
[00:16:22] <sbryzak> also, an update on what's happening with jenkins
[00:16:53] <jbossbot> git [core] push master ce78f28.. Lincoln Baxter, III Plugin hot loading works for real
[00:16:53] <sbryzak> and another thing, i had an e-mail yesterday from a concerned seam user
[00:16:53] <jbossbot> git [core] push master URL: http://github.com/forge/core/compare/633efc8...ce78f28
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[00:17:14] <sbryzak> they were under the impression that there would be no more seam releases after 3
[00:17:43] <sbryzak> not sure how they came to that conclusion, but we need to get the word out that it's not true
[00:18:13] <sbryzak> so let's add that to the agenda to discuss
[00:18:43] <lightguard_jp> Sounds like that's the meeting thin.
[00:18:44] <lightguard_jp> then*
[00:18:56] <lightguard_jp> Where would they get the idea that there wouldn't be any more seam releases?
[00:19:08] <lightguard_jp> AFAIK it's not on the site anywhere, or in the forums
[00:19:39] <sbryzak> i have no idea
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[00:27:45] <jbossbot> git [core] push master b60a2bf.. Kevin Pollet Implemented SEAMFORGE-322
[00:27:46] <jbossbot> jira [SEAMFORGE-322] add-constraint Pattern erronously adds flags to annotation even when none are defined [Pull Request Sent (Unresolved) Bug, Major, Kevin Pollet] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMFORGE-322
[00:27:46] <jbossbot> git [core] push master 35c57e4.. Lincoln Baxter, III Merge pull request #54 from kevinpollet/SEAMFORGE-322...
[00:27:46] <jbossbot> git [core] push master URL: http://github.com/forge/core/compare/ce78f28...35c57e4
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[00:41:27] <hannelita> lightguard_jp: ping
[00:41:44] <lightguard_jp> hannelita: Yes
[00:43:16] <hannelita> lightguard_jp: Saw your email. I just had some updated that I didnt commit at confbuzz app related to the new annotations of security module
[00:43:42] <lightguard_jp> hannelita: Is that also related to the roles / groups we talked about previously?
[00:43:52] <hannelita> lightguard_jp: Like the example of idmconsole
[00:44:11] <hannelita> lightguard_jp: Yes, related to roles and groups
[00:44:17] <lightguard_jp> Okay, great.
[00:44:31] <hannelita> lightguard_jp: But I havent finished yet :(
[00:44:44] <hannelita> **Feeling slow** #Fail
[00:45:58] <lightguard_jp> hannelita: No problem.
[00:48:30] <hannelita> lightguard_jp: Are you going to need this part for something you intend to code?
[00:48:55] <lightguard_jp> No, something I intend to document for the 3.1 release
[00:50:02] <hannelita> lightguard_jp: Hmm, I'll hurry and finish it then, so I pull request you until tomorrow night, ok? :)
[00:52:40] <lightguard_jp> hannelita: That works
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[00:57:32] <lightguard_jp> sbryzak: Did we get spam taken care of?
[00:57:49] <sbryzak> lightguard_jp: i think so, i've been checking for it every day
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[00:58:02] <sbryzak> we're still getting the odd one through, but i've been closing the holes as i find them
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[00:58:46] <sbryzak> lightguard_jp: i was thinking of releasing a new seam-bom today
[00:58:57] <sbryzak> for beta3, what do you think?
[00:59:24] <lightguard_jp> 15?
[00:59:34] <lightguard_jp> Oh, wait that's the parent
[01:00:00] <lightguard_jp> A new bom... Do we put it in staging until the release is done?
[01:00:27] <lightguard_jp> I can see people finding out about a new BOM, trying to use it and asking us why it doesn't work
[01:00:53] <sbryzak> they would only know if they browse nexus
[01:00:56] <sbryzak> do people really do that?
[01:01:13] <lightguard_jp> idk
[01:01:27] <lightguard_jp> I know I had people asking about Beta2 stuff before it was all done
[01:02:22] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master a054356.. Shane Bryzak remove forge from distribution
[01:02:22] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/dist/compare/883480c...a054356
[01:02:25] <sbryzak> i think it will be ok
[01:02:33] <lightguard_jp> Okay
[01:02:36] <sbryzak> i mean, a release isn't official until it's announced
[01:02:41] <lightguard_jp> sbryzak: Did Adam ever contact you?
[01:02:48] <sbryzak> not yet, no
[01:02:52] <lightguard_jp> Too bad
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[01:04:36] <sbryzak> the solder changes are really going to throw people off
[01:05:00] <lightguard_jp> yep
[01:05:00] <sbryzak> have to be careful how i describe that in the release announcement
[01:15:25] <hannelita> as far as i know, ppl usually dont browse nexus unless they have a problem and think Its a bug that has been fixed in a newer version, so in this case they browse nexus
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[01:17:38] <clerum> what is the correct way to keep something out of the component tree
[01:17:40] <clerum> https://gist.github.com/8c575d05721a86679902
[01:18:02] <clerum> I only want this ui:include going if my condition passes
[01:18:19] <sbryzak> clerum: maybe put it in a fragment?
[01:18:32] <clerum> already in a ui:fragment
[01:18:39] <clerum> doesn't render...but it is still part of the tree
[01:19:17] <sbryzak> hmm, that's a question for the jsf gurus then
[01:19:52] <lightguard_jp> clerum: c:if
[01:20:02] <clerum> that was my next guess
[01:20:17] <clerum> just do c:if test="blah" instead of the ui:fragment?
[01:20:17] <lightguard_jp> Has to be done with c:if
[01:20:20] <lightguard_jp> Yep
[01:20:34] <lightguard_jp> Issue with JSF, I wish they'd fix it
[01:20:44] <clerum> thanks
[01:21:59] <lightguard_jp> np
[01:27:57] <clerum> hmmm - Warning: This page calls for XML namespace http://java.sun.com/jstl/core declared with prefix c but no taglibrary exists for that namespace
[01:28:37] <lightguard_jp> clerum: Um... try ##jsf :)
[01:29:03] <clerum> yea wondering if I'm missing a jar
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[01:40:04] <bleathem> clerum: yeah, c:if
[01:40:32] <bleathem> they moved the jstl libraries
[01:40:37] <bleathem> down one level
[01:41:41] <bleathem> clerum: http://java.sun.com/jsp/jstl/core
[01:43:16] <bleathem> clerum: notice the added jsp
[01:43:28] <bleathem> in the path
[01:46:09] <clerum> yep I just found it
[01:46:10] <clerum> thanks
[01:46:18] <clerum> working now as expected
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[03:40:17] <hannelit_> hi all! I have a question
[03:41:01] <hannelit_> about the changes you mentioned in the meeting last week... when can i share them with the community?
[03:41:35] <hannelit_> I'm asking because I'd like to know if I can talk about them into a talk at JbossInBossa (an event here in Brazil)
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[03:49:19] <sbryzak> hannelita: feel free to share anything we discussed
[03:49:52] <hannelita> sbryzak: thanks :)
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[07:32:08] <lightguard_jp> sbryzak: ping
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[07:56:53] <sbryzak> lightguard_jp: pong
[07:57:41] <lightguard_jp> Are there some examples that still need to be pulled out of the modules? Like IDM?
[07:58:37] <sbryzak> yes, but i'm not sure we should do it for 3.1
[07:59:04] <lightguard_jp> If we bundle the examples in the distribution, what difference does it make?
[07:59:16] <lightguard_jp> I'm just thinking it'll make the release easier to do.
[07:59:27] <sbryzak> yeah, but we don't have a central example repository yet
[07:59:56] <lightguard_jp> https://github.com/seam/examples ?
[08:00:17] <sbryzak> no, they're going to be moved from there
[08:00:37] <lightguard_jp> Okay
[08:01:12] <lightguard_jp> What other problems do you have when doing a release besides the security / faces circle?
[08:02:01] <sbryzak> that's the main one i think
[08:05:05] <lightguard_jp> So you end up excluding the example when you release, then do another one with the example?
[08:06:22] <sbryzak> i could do it that way i guess
[08:06:29] <sbryzak> just exclude the example from the release profile
[08:06:33] <lightguard_jp> What have you been doing?
[08:06:49] <sbryzak> i've just been setting the faces dependency to an earlier version
[08:07:11] <lightguard_jp> Ah
[08:07:42] <lightguard_jp> Nothing has a dependency on the source of config does it?
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[08:08:48] <lightguard_jp> I think Rest, Servlet, and Faces will need an update because we moved Catch. I don't think there are any others that use it.
[08:09:59] <sbryzak> well servlet is in solder now
[08:10:02] <sbryzak> i've already updated it
[08:10:25] <lightguard_jp> Okay. The other two will need an update
[08:10:30] <sbryzak> we need to update the dependencies though for all modules
[08:10:34] <sbryzak> as solder has moved
[08:10:59] <sbryzak> and i'm certain that the other 3 modules that got combined with solder will be declared as dependencies somewhere also
[08:11:18] <lightguard_jp> True
[08:11:36] <sbryzak> i just have to wait until i hear back from ken/dan about logging
[08:11:43] <lightguard_jp> We need to get a list together, then we can split it up and knock it out quickly
[08:11:45] <sbryzak> then i can hopefully release solder
[08:12:03] <sbryzak> yep, once the bom and solder are out, the rest should be quite simple
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[08:39:10] <tremes> sbryzak: ping
[08:39:40] <sbryzak> tremes: pong
[08:40:19] <sbryzak> stuartdouglas: i think you retweeted that before i even hit the post button
[08:40:27] <stuartdouglas> hehe
[08:41:14] <tremes> :sbryzak: Hi. Can i have a question? What about the opened pull requests to config module? Should i close it and reopened it to solder?
[08:42:19] <sbryzak> tremes: yes, if there's open pull requests please re-apply them to solder
[08:43:18] <tremes> sbryzak: ok
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[17:01:09] <clerum> Question on shane's post
[17:01:15] <clerum> So while there won't be a bundled release, will there be stack releases which are tested togehter with the examples and give a endorsed version matrix?
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[17:15:30] <hannelita> ppl got a little desperate with shane's post here
[17:17:05] <lincolnthree> ?
[17:18:51] <lincolnthree> hannelita: ^
[17:19:10] <hannelita> lincolnthree: Shane's post
[17:19:17] <lincolnthree> where?
[17:19:24] <hannelita> lincolnthree: http://in.relation.to/Bloggers/SoWhatsHappeningWithSeam
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[17:32:31] <clerum> I can see peoples concerns but mainly with the name "Hibernate CDI"
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[17:33:45] <clerum> should be more "JPA CDI" or "Persistence CDI"
[17:35:01] <clerum> I'm guessing that the plan is that neither "Faces CDI" for "Hibernate CDI" will in anyway depend on Hibernate or Richfaces but it doesn't look that way
[17:35:58] <clerum> also the lack of a mention of any coordinated stack release which QA and tested examples is also going to concern people
[17:36:52] <clerum> not sure on the answers but probably need a create a follow-up blog and lock the comments on the current one before it gets out of hand
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[18:16:16] <antoine_sd> I'm surrounded by Springs fanboys they keep laughing at me after the blog post
[18:20:25] <lincolnthree> antoine_sd: which post? shane's
[18:20:26] <lincolnthree> ?
[18:20:31] <antoine_sd> yes
[18:21:03] <antoine_sd> I think it should be reformulated
[18:21:09] <lincolnthree> were you looking for me yesterday btw?
[18:21:15] <antoine_sd> yes
[18:21:27] <antoine_sd> to tell you about my talk on Seam forge
[18:21:34] <lincolnthree> oh! how was it?
[18:21:36] <antoine_sd> I did last week
[18:21:53] <antoine_sd> It was great
[18:21:58] <antoine_sd> I had a lot of question
[18:22:07] <lincolnthree> I wish I could have gotten you a bunch of the features I got working just this week
[18:22:27] <antoine_sd> about 70 people
[18:22:37] <lincolnthree> wow! good turnout! all for your talk?
[18:23:01] <antoine_sd> It was a Jug SummerCamp
[18:23:28] <antoine_sd> so I was not alone :-)
[18:23:51] <lincolnthree> that sounds like fun
[18:23:55] <lincolnthree> I wish I had a good jug around here
[18:24:01] <lincolnthree> What kinds of questions did you get?
[18:24:48] <antoine_sd> most about nature of project created with forge
[18:25:00] <antoine_sd> is it just for demo or poc
[18:25:15] <lincolnthree> that tells me we need more work on the scaffolding :/
[18:25:22] <antoine_sd> or will it be able to produce real application to put in production
[18:25:32] <antoine_sd> yes
[18:25:47] <lincolnthree> which i definitely know already :) hehe
[18:25:50] <lincolnthree> SEAMFORGE-306
[18:25:51] <jbossbot> jira [SEAMFORGE-306] Forge Scaffold Enhancements (Umbrella Issue) [Open (Unresolved) Enhancement, Critical, Unassigned] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMFORGE-306
[18:26:19] <antoine_sd> :-)
[18:26:45] <antoine_sd> anyway, I will wait after Devoxx to do another forge talk ;-)
[18:27:15] <lincolnthree> what should I be prepared for in my talks at devoxx?
[18:27:27] <antoine_sd> I guess you'll have some conference driven development until then.
[18:27:53] <antoine_sd> People want to see a complete scafolding
[18:28:06] <lincolnthree> yeah ;) CDD
[18:28:10] <antoine_sd> ManyToMany relations
[18:28:36] <antoine_sd> change the default template
[18:28:44] <antoine_sd> ordering fields
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[18:29:10] <antoine_sd> date picker
[18:29:12] <lincolnthree> yeah. ordering fields is a tough one
[18:29:16] <lincolnthree> yep, date picker is big too
[18:29:19] <antoine_sd> yes I guess
[18:29:20] <lincolnthree> richfaces plugin helps with that
[18:29:52] <antoine_sd> If you want to avoid specific annotation it is quite tough
[18:30:14] <antoine_sd> perhaps by using a mixin class like in Jackson
[18:30:43] <lincolnthree> hm
[18:32:03] <antoine_sd> I don't know how you will be able to avoid writing specific config for these... But I'm not as smart as you ;-)
[18:32:27] <lincolnthree> i don't think I'm as smart as me either
[18:32:54] <antoine_sd> :-)
[18:33:15] <antoine_sd> I wish to have 48 hours day to work on this
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[18:33:39] <antoine_sd> I already don't have enough time to work on social doc:-(
[18:35:08] <lincolnthree> me too
[18:35:39] <antoine_sd> lincolnthree : is it possible for you to have one day after Devoxx to give a talk in Paris ?
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[18:36:06] <antoine_sd> I'm looking for speakers with interesting new stuff
[18:36:43] <lincolnthree> antoine_sd: that would be awesome, but they've already heard about forge ;) also it will be difficult for me since the thanksgiving holiday is immediately following devoxx
[18:37:11] <lincolnthree> it's possible if it's very early the next week
[18:37:28] <antoine_sd> it's not the same people.
[18:39:41] <antoine_sd> Great ! So it could be nov 21st or 22nd ?
[18:40:42] <lincolnthree> actually TBH, that might not even work because I forgot it takes a day to get back
[18:40:52] <lincolnthree> I have to be with my family on tuesday
[18:40:56] <antoine_sd> ok
[18:41:01] <antoine_sd> forgret it
[18:41:17] <lincolnthree> sorry, i think it would be a bit too tight
[18:41:22] <antoine_sd> We'll do it for Forge 2.0
[18:41:37] <antoine_sd> Hope I'll see you in Devoxx
[18:41:57] <antoine_sd> (not sure to go but it's quite likely)
[18:42:08] <lincolnthree> Thanks antoine_sd, I hope so! meet at the table on the right side? ;)
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[18:42:20] <antoine_sd> yes :-)
[18:43:09] <hannelita> ppl here still desperate with shane's post :(
[18:43:49] <lincolnthree> hannelita: don't worry, seam isn't going away.
[18:43:53] <antoine_sd> I'm part of them hannellta
[18:44:10] <lincolnthree> I think we just screwed up delivering the message and it got a bit mixed up
[18:44:32] <hannelita> guys crying and saying "SEAM IS GONNA DIE :'(  "
[18:44:59] <antoine_sd> Seam is not going away, we all know it. but it's the worst way to communicate.
[18:45:09] <hannelita> "Please hanneli, tell me seam 3 is not going t die, I've just started a new project with that ;'( "
[18:46:14] <lincolnthree> antoine_sd: i agree
[18:46:18] <hannelita> I know, but I think ppl here need a hug. Seriously
[18:46:25] <lincolnthree> hannelita: *hug*
[18:46:33] <lincolnthree> pass that on
[18:46:51] <hannelita> lincolnthree: Thanks, I'll try haha
[18:46:54] <antoine_sd> hannelita a lot of error around seam communication strategy IMHO
[18:46:54] <lincolnthree> forge is watching over you all
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[18:48:06] <hannelita> antoine_sd: IDK if it was a good thing... for example, here in Brazil, ppl had some doubts about using Seam 3, as i mentioned before.... IDK if after this post they will get over it :/
[18:48:34] <hannelita> anyway.... I will write a post explaining the situation tonight
[18:49:02] <antoine_sd> I'm looking forward reading it
[18:49:34] <lincolnthree> I'll make sure we get some better communications about this.
[18:49:45] <antoine_sd> in France that doesn't change anything : it the Spring Source fanboys country
[18:49:52] <antoine_sd> nobody will notice
[18:50:27] <lincolnthree> antoine_sd: :)
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[18:50:50] <antoine_sd> they are just mocking me
[18:51:14] <mathieuancelin> antoine_sd: :-)
[18:51:19] <hannelita> I really need to write something about these changes asap, my email inbox has 70+ messages asking about it T_T
[18:51:55] 
[18:52:13] <antoine_sd> I didn't make the mistake to mention I was fond of OS/2 and Lotus notes in the 90's
[18:52:16] <lincolnthree> antoine_sd: we will never mock you
[18:52:47] <antoine_sd> (even after my last message ?)
[18:52:56] <mathieuancelin> antoine_sd: but spring framework is so much simple :) (irony inside)
[18:54:08] <antoine_sd> yes it's complicated but let's be honest far more consistent.
[18:55:55] <antoine_sd> I'm working on a Spring Webflow app to port it to CDI + Seam
[18:56:50] <antoine_sd> Weblow is awfull : flooded under proprietary xml config files
[18:57:10] <lincolnthree> antoine_sd: yes, seam needs a bit more consistency, but it is written by tons of people :)
[18:57:14] <antoine_sd> but there is no equivalent in Seam 3.
[18:57:35] <antoine_sd> but it has some
[18:57:36] <lincolnthree> antoine_sd: yes, that's a big gap, i think it's something we really need to address
[18:58:24] <antoine_sd> imo the problem is to focus energy on bad direction
[18:58:42] <antoine_sd> I know it's not very politically correct
[18:59:05] <antoine_sd> but having call it Seam 3 create a need for a compatibility with Seam 2
[18:59:22] <antoine_sd> a lot of effort on something that won't work
[18:59:43] <lincolnthree> antoine_sd: i agree, seam3 was a bad choice of name
[19:00:09] <antoine_sd> Seam  university is a good idea but why should develop the container
[19:00:59] <antoine_sd> and why don't we gather with other CDI effort (CDI Source, CODI, Resin) to build a real eco-system ?
[19:01:16] <lincolnthree> i dont think it will be called seam-university
[19:01:22] <lincolnthree> and yeah, that needs to happen
[19:01:22] <antoine_sd> I wrote a long mail on the subject in the ML
[19:01:32] <pmuir> antoine_sd: what is your primary concern about this change of focus away from providing Seam as a full stack, and moving towards making CDI the ubiquitous programming model for Java EE and the JBoss ecosystem
[19:02:09] <antoine_sd> hi pmuir
[19:02:50] <antoine_sd> My concern is that you branded this bunch of CDI extension as a framework.
[19:02:56] <pmuir> ok
[19:03:09] <pmuir> iow bait and switch?
[19:03:11] <antoine_sd> now you're talking about changing the content
[19:03:29] <antoine_sd> ?
[19:03:42] <antoine_sd> yes
[19:03:51] <pmuir> yes that is a good point
[19:04:03] <antoine_sd> The result will be probably the same technically
[19:04:05] <antoine_sd> even better
[19:04:13] <antoine_sd> but in term of image
[19:04:26] <antoine_sd> "those guys don't have a clear strategy"
[19:04:49] <pmuir> yes
[19:04:51] <antoine_sd> "ok they keep the modules but what will happen next ?"
[19:05:03] <pmuir> good feedback
[19:05:24] <antoine_sd> here in France, it's very hard to convince CTO to try Java EE 6 and leave Spring aside
[19:05:44] <pmuir> i just wanted to understand what your primary concern was - architectural, (perceived) loss of portability, bait and switch
[19:05:45] <antoine_sd> an eco system like Seam is mandatory for a real CDI project
[19:05:57] <pmuir> those are the ones I see as being the biggest issue
[19:06:00] <pmuir> yes, I agree entirely
[19:06:10] <antoine_sd> me too
[19:06:27] <antoine_sd> for me CDI is like a spine for Java EE 6
[19:06:35] <antoine_sd> we waited a long time to have it
[19:06:46] <pmuir> hannelita: you also had some concerns - can you let me know what are causing them?
[19:06:50] <antoine_sd> and logically Seam is an extension of this spine
[19:07:08] <pmuir> antoine_sd: understood
[19:07:33] <antoine_sd> I have to leave, but I'll write a more complete feedback on the ML.
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[20:12:10] <clerum> pmuir: I think people might just need some clarity in how things relate going forward
[20:12:20] <pmuir> clerum: yes, I agree :-)
[20:12:29] <pmuir> clerum: i'm drafting some points with sbryzak now :-)
[20:12:31] <clerum> as of right now it just appears to be a bunch of modules linked on a page
[20:12:36] <pmuir> clerum: what are *your* primary reactions
[20:12:41] <clerum> no bundled release makes sense
[20:12:56] <clerum> but is there going to be a tested stack release once or twice a year?
[20:13:13] <clerum> saying that faces 3.1 and persistence 3.0 are tested compatable?
[20:13:46] <lightguard_jp> That's actually a good point.
[20:13:47] <clerum> also I think the name "Hibernate CDI" is really going cause a stir
[20:13:57] <pmuir> yes
[20:14:03] <lightguard_jp> I'm not sure if we've addressed compat with modules
[20:14:05] <pmuir> yeah, we need to address the app stack point
[20:14:05] <clerum> "JPA CDI" or something might be better
[20:14:27] <clerum> otherwise this is just going to drift into a bunch of independant moudles which are untested with eachother
[20:14:46] <clerum> version match doesn't matter. faces could be on 3.7 and mail on 3.0
[20:15:05] <clerum> but their should be a snapshot of them all together once or twice a year
[20:15:09] <clerum> work out the compat bugs
[20:15:59] <clerum> and then give a matrix showing what versions are currently known to work with other versions
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[20:16:21] <clerum> "Faces CDI" makes sense
[20:16:32] <clerum> as long as it's 100% not dependant on RF
[20:16:50] <clerum> same with "Hibernate CDI"
[20:17:10] <clerum> with a name change
[20:18:00] <clerum> just because Faces CDI is being managed by the RF team doesn't mean it's RF dependant but...unless it's very clearly explained it looks as such
[20:18:15] <clerum> and then people assume that primefaces or icefaces won't work
[20:18:38] <clerum> those are my initial reactions anywa
[20:18:40] <clerum> anyway
[20:22:11] <pmuir> clerum: thanks useful
[20:22:29] <clerum> np
[20:22:49] <oranheim> clerum: i agree with you
[20:23:41] <oranheim> it's somewhat hard to fully see the whole picture here i think. One of the great benefits of seam so far has been instant synching between core modules of seam
[20:24:27] <oranheim> i'm concerned about the iterative steps keeping modules in sync combined with expansion of feature sets
[20:25:34] <oranheim> i really like the idea of Solder becoming a top level project in JBoss
[20:28:51] <clerum> oranheim: there just needs to be something to pull it all together once or twice a year
[20:29:08] <oranheim> clerum: yep
[20:29:11] <lincolnthree> clerum: oranheim, there is a plan for pulling things together, it just didn't get communicated
[20:29:13] <clerum> take the most recent released version and test it with the other most recent verions
[20:29:18] <lincolnthree> we're working on a response
[20:29:51] <clerum> lincolnthree: I figured as much. Either that or you guys drank way more than I thought at the F2F
[20:29:54] <clerum> :-)
[20:30:06] <bleathem> CDI question for y'all
[20:30:11] <lincolnthree> clerum: the messaging was incomplete, and premature :) we messed up
[20:30:19] <lincolnthree> bleathem: die
[20:30:20] <bleathem> if I do :
[20:30:20] <bleathem> @Inject @Push("subtopic@topic") Event<Payload> event;
[20:30:33] <bleathem> can I inspect the attributes of the qualifier at the observer?
[20:30:43] * bleathem stabs lincolnthree
[20:30:50] <lincolnthree> bleathem: nope
[20:30:52] <lincolnthree> dont think so
[20:31:19] <lightguard_jp> In CDI 1.1 you can
[20:31:31] <bleathem> hmmm
[20:31:33] <bleathem> bummer
[20:31:47] <oranheim> btw, guys: the startup I'm part of  went live (soft launched) with seam 3.1.Beta2 / "CR1-pre": http://www.musific.com
[20:32:01] <bleathem> so I'd have to get the dev to create a qualifer for each topic
[20:32:02] <oranheim> and seam mail 3.0.0.Alpha1
[20:32:20] <bleathem> @Inject @Push @topic Event<Payload> event;
[20:32:36] <bleathem> then I'd be able to see the @topic qualifier from the observer?
[20:32:45] <bleathem> or still no?
[20:33:04] <lincolnthree> IIRC, you don't get any info about qualifiers in observer methods
[20:33:10] <lightguard_jp> No
[20:33:11] <lincolnthree> ask pmuir
[20:33:12] <bleathem> oranheim: that's awesome!  congrats on the launch!
[20:33:19] <oranheim> bleathem: thanks :)
[20:33:25] <lightguard_jp> Observers can't get any info about qualifiers in CDI 1.0
[20:33:27] <lincolnthree> oranheim: that IS awesome!
[20:33:37] <bleathem> ok...
[20:34:00] <oranheim> we use primefaces  and mostly all seam modules.. So my solution is somewhat a PoC of a Stack Release :-)
[20:35:05] <oranheim> seam social is on landing page with some extras not found in seam social.. I'll bring that up Antoine, in case twitter text, url match/replace is of value to seam social.. i'll commit that..
[20:35:31] <bleathem> so I guess I could create a "Push" object, that had the payload and the topic as properties
[20:35:46] <pmuir> wjat a, o asled
[20:35:52] <pmuir> ergh
[20:35:55] <pmuir> what am i asked
[20:36:09] <bleathem> hi pmuir
[20:36:22] <bleathem> I was just asking what info about qualifiers are available in observer methods
[20:36:32] <lincolnthree> pmuir: are we getting any kind of metadata on events in CDI11?
[20:37:25] <pmuir> yes, you can injec the qualifiers the method was called with iirc
[20:38:05] <bleathem> pmuir: this injection of qualifiers is in CDI 1.1, but not today? correct?
[20:38:09] <lincolnthree> pmuir: but that's not available with CDI1.0
[20:38:13] <pmuir> bleathem: aye
[20:38:16] <lincolnthree> k thanks
[20:38:20] <pmuir> none today
[20:38:28] <pmuir> lincolnthree will know more than me about how to hack it ;-)
[20:38:44] <lincolnthree> pmuir: extensions ftw!
[20:39:02] <bleathem> lincolnthree: so can this be dones with extensions?
[20:39:38] <lincolnthree> bleathem: you'll have to write an extension to aggregate the info you want, then do some kind of producer for the metadata that produces the correct info for each invocation of an observer method
[20:39:51] <bleathem> hmm
[20:39:55] <lincolnthree> it will be nasty
[20:39:58] <bleathem> and if we have only one observer method
[20:40:04] <bleathem> it should be simpler?
[20:40:07] <lincolnthree> nope
[20:40:23] <lincolnthree> the problem is you need to intercept the event
[20:40:25] <lincolnthree> actually
[20:40:28] <lincolnthree> im not even sure you can do that
[20:40:38] <lincolnthree> because you'd need to know which qualifiers it was *fired* with
[20:40:39] <bleathem> hmm
[20:40:45] <lincolnthree> not which qualifiers the observer method has
[20:40:49] <lincolnthree> so It might not be possible
[20:40:53] <bleathem> so I'll just create a "Push" object
[20:40:54] <lincolnthree> unless you override the event firing
[20:41:04] <bleathem> and have the metadata as a parameter of the object
[20:41:11] <bleathem> not nearly as clean
[20:41:13] <bleathem> but doable
[20:41:17] <lincolnthree> i think this is exactly the multi-tenancy stuff pmuir was talking about at the F2f
[20:41:35] <lincolnthree> bleathem: that is my recommendation yes
[20:41:40] <lincolnthree> put all the info you need into the event
[20:41:55] <bleathem> API == ugly
[20:41:59] <bleathem> but oh well
[20:42:14] <lightguard_jp> oranheim: That an internal app?
[20:42:26] <lincolnthree> lightguard_jp: startupu
[20:42:32] <oranheim> lightguard_jp: what do you mean by internal app?
[20:43:41] <lightguard_jp> bleathem: That's what I had to do with Catch. You put the qualifiers in the payload object.
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[20:44:21] <bleathem> lightguard_jp: you managed to do that quite cleanly in Catch
[20:44:26] <bleathem> how did you do that?
[20:44:29] <lightguard_jp> oranheim: Is the code publicly available? If it's a startup I assume not
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[20:44:37] <oranheim> lightguard_jp: Musific is a startup and this was a soft launch. It's only open for pre-registration and we're working close with a group of agents and managers in live music...
[20:44:38] * bleathem going to look at the Catch doccs again
[20:44:43] <lightguard_jp> Just curious because we have few examples of full stack apps.
[20:45:07] <oranheim> lightguard_jp: no it's a service and code is closed
[20:45:11] <lightguard_jp> bleathem: Added the qualifiers to the constructor of the payload
[20:45:40] <lightguard_jp> bleathem: Then you have a getter for the set of qualifiers
[20:46:03] <oranheim> lightguard_jp: we have been discussing an open source strategy, but the business model of hours in a competing market we're doesn't allow for that right now
[20:46:06] <lightguard_jp> So the constructor will take a Class<? extexnds Annotation> ... qualifiers and add it to a collection.
[20:46:18] <lightguard_jp> oranheim: Got it.
[20:46:38] <lightguard_jp> oranheim: We'd certainly be interested in feedback you have and how we can improve things.
[20:46:45] <bleathem> lightguard_jp: the "Example usage" link on the catch page is broken
[20:47:01] <oranheim> lightguard_jp: it would be like asking Facebook or Spotify to share their sources all open
[20:47:08] <lightguard_jp> bleathem: Not surprised, I haven't updated that page in a long time.
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[20:48:42] <bleathem> lightguard_jp: you mean this:
[20:48:42] <bleathem> https://github.com/seam/catch/blob/develop/api/src/main/java/org/jboss/seam/exception/control/ExceptionToCatch.java
[20:48:52] <lightguard_jp> bleathem: Yep
[20:48:54] <oranheim> i'll post some feedback on seam-dev.. i guess we have ton of them.. we are constrained by time and resources as for my part, i working out of my pocket.. so need to keep my focus on to complete our service.
[20:49:02] <bleathem> public ExceptionToCatch(Throwable exception, Annotation... qualifiers) {
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[20:49:09] <oranheim> we certainly got pieces of code that i would be more than happy share with seam
[20:50:04] <lightguard_jp> oranheim: Yeah, the mailing list would be a great place to post that info
[20:50:11] <lightguard_jp> bleathem: That's it
[20:50:34] <lightguard_jp> That works, you have to use literals
[20:50:44] <lightguard_jp> Really depends on how you want to work with them.
[20:50:59] <bleathem> you have to use literals?
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[20:51:09] <bleathem> can literals take arguments?
[20:51:29] <lightguard_jp> bleathem: With that constructor yes because it takes Annotations.
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[20:51:40] <lightguard_jp> If you use Class<? extends Annotation> ... then you can just use the class.
[20:51:48] <bleathem> hmm
[20:51:53] <lightguard_jp> Using Annotations though you get the actual instance of it
[20:52:07] <lightguard_jp> Which is probably what you want because you can have binding variables it sounds like
[20:52:11] <bleathem> maybe we'll just skip the annotations, and have the topic be a direct property of the "Push" object.
[20:53:17] <lightguard_jp> bleathem: That may be a little cleaner
[20:55:50] <bleathem> ok another CDI question
[20:56:14] <bleathem> I want to include a CDI observer in the Richfaces JAR, but I don't want to scan the whole jar.
[20:56:28] <bleathem> I can proramatically register an onbserver with a CDI extension, correct?
[20:56:48] <lightguard_jp> Yes
[20:57:00] <bleathem> ok, thx, I'll pursue that further
[20:58:20] <lightguard_jp> I'm looking for the location though.
[20:58:29] <lightguard_jp> lincolnthree: Do you recall what you have to observe to do that?
[20:58:55] <lincolnthree> not sure
[20:59:10] <lincolnthree> it's one of the lifecycle events for CDI
[20:59:31] <lincolnthree> ProcessExtension perhaps
[20:59:34] <lincolnthree> not sure
[21:00:15] <lightguard_jp> AfterBeanDiscovery
[21:00:31] <lightguard_jp> Then you call the addObserverMethod and pass it an instance of ObserverMethod
[21:00:51] <lightguard_jp> Pretty sure Solder has an impl that you can use to make it easier.
[21:00:58] <lightguard_jp> But it's only six methods anyway.
[21:01:18] <lightguard_jp> bleathem: http://docs.jboss.org/cdi/api/1.0/javax/enterprise/inject/spi/AfterBeanDiscovery.html http://docs.jboss.org/cdi/api/1.0/javax/enterprise/inject/spi/ObserverMethod.html
[21:01:58] <bleathem> great stuff, thanks lightguard_jp
[21:02:07] <lightguard_jp> bleathem: No problem
[21:02:08] <bleathem> that'll shortcut my investigations for sure
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[21:03:34] <lightguard_jp> bleathem: From Solder: impl/src/main/java/org/jboss/solder/bean/ForwardingObserverMethod.java impl/src/main/java/org/jboss/solder/bean/generic/GenericObserverMethod.java impl/src/main/java/org/jboss/solder/bean/defaultbean/DefaultObserverMethod.java
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[21:20:57] <sbryzak> ugh, 5.30am
[21:21:24] <lincolnthree> sbryzak: might as well stay up now
[21:21:26] <lincolnthree> or just sleep
[21:21:29] <lincolnthree> you need sleep
[21:21:31] <lincolnthree> sleeeeeeeeeep
[21:21:36] <sbryzak> that's what i'm debating with myself right now
[21:23:04] <bleathem> thanks lightguard_jp, I've updated RF-11110 with the infor you provided
[21:23:05] 
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[21:25:11] <lightguard_jp> bleathem: http://seamframework.org/Community/Seam3ProductionReady
[21:25:18] <lightguard_jp> He's hammering on Faces
[21:26:41] <bleathem> indeed he is
[21:27:13] <bleathem> what's the deal with the joda-time depndency?
[21:27:22] <bleathem> I think faces inherits it from international...
[21:29:07] <lightguard_jp> Yep
[21:29:13] <lightguard_jp> It's optional
[21:29:24] <lightguard_jp> I'm not sure where exactly the break is, but we need to plug in.
[21:30:09] <lightguard_jp> digging
[21:30:51] <bleathem> is this the OverEagerClassPathScanning Dan documented a while back?
[21:31:04] <bleathem> what containers does that still effect?
[21:31:20] <lightguard_jp> bleathem: Is Faces using the datetimezone package from international?
[21:31:29] <lightguard_jp> No, I don't think so
[21:32:51] <bleathem> lightguard_jp: find . -type f | xargs grep -i 'datetimezone' is coming up empty
[21:33:04] <lightguard_jp> Yeah, did the same with ack.
[21:33:18] <bleathem> Ack!
[21:33:19] <lightguard_jp> Not exactly sure where it's being used though
[21:33:29] <lightguard_jp> http://betterthangrep.com/
[21:34:24] <lightguard_jp> The only thing from international in faces is messages and local
[21:34:26] <lightguard_jp> locale*
[21:34:51] <lightguard_jp> I'm not sure if the dep needs to change in international or if faces just just define a hard runtime dep on joda
[21:34:59] <bleathem> o_0 ... sudo apt-get install ack
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[23:23:07] <bleathem> sbryzak: what's your gmail username?
[23:25:25] <bleathem> sbryzak: nevemind, found it
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