[00:00:00] <hannelita> lightguard_jp: Think I will need some help in the beginning, but I think I can do it
[00:00:00] <johnament> hero
[00:00:04] <johnament> seam community hero
[00:00:04] <mojavelinux> our conference directory example would actually have a good use case for seam jcr
[00:00:21] <lightguard_jp> #info We've just graduated another community leader :) hannelita will help us out by being our Example Leader.
[00:00:24] <mojavelinux> as there is a lot of content associated w/ each talk
[00:00:50] <lightguard_jp> hannelita: We'll come up with a description and get it all sorted out, hopefully within a few days. Until then, feel free to email me and the list.
[00:01:18] <gastaldi> mojavelinux: Yup, and get that stuff running on OpenShift
[00:01:29] <mojavelinux> another great little app is a call for papers, what's cool is that these examples might actually get used in the real world :)
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[00:01:46] 
[00:01:50] <mojavelinux> because people still need applications for these...amazing how many times they are written from scratch and are so painful
[00:01:52] <mojavelinux> http://seamframework.org/Documentation/ExampleIdeas
[00:02:23] <mojavelinux> every call for papers website I use, I want to stab it there are so many bugs :)
[00:02:30] <mojavelinux> even the JavaOne submission site, horrible
[00:02:45] <lightguard_jp> I think we hit a nerve.
[00:02:53] <lightguard_jp> :)
[00:03:16] <lightguard_jp> I think that's it, unless there are other ideas to be brought forth.
[00:03:38] <hannelita> So, you were talking about business examples - I will make an example for SmartTasks using Seam 3
[00:03:38] <hannelita> http://hannelita.wordpress.com/category/smart-tasks/
[00:03:48] <mojavelinux> I think that the conference domain is sooooo rich for examples
[00:03:53] <lightguard_jp> #action lightguard_jp We still need to touch base with other module leads about 3.1 releases. Follow up with them will be done via email on the dev list.
[00:03:53] 
[00:03:56] <kenfinnigan> that it is
[00:04:05] <mojavelinux> there is data, reports, social parts, content, etc, it's pretty easy to come up with examples
[00:04:23] <gastaldi> yeah !
[00:04:24] <kenfinnigan> if that's all I need to duck off for dinner
[00:04:42] <lightguard_jp> Yeah, I think we're done.
[00:04:48] <lightguard_jp> #endmeeting
[00:04:58] <lightguard_jp> Thanks everyone for attending!
[00:05:03] *** jbott changes topic to "Seam 3.0.0.Final has been released! Development discussions for Seam (seamframework.org). Join #seam for user discussions.  See http://seamframework.org/Seam3/Chat for logs and more info.  TeamSpeak 3 server is available for Seam devs at 216.6.228.98:10024, password: seam-dev"
[00:05:04] <jbott> Meeting ended Wed Aug  3 22:01:56 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
[00:05:04] <jbott> Minutes:        http://transcripts.jboss.org/meeting/irc.freenode.org/seam-dev/2011/seam-dev.2011-08-03-21.00.html
[00:05:04] <jbott> Minutes (text): http://transcripts.jboss.org/meeting/irc.freenode.org/seam-dev/2011/seam-dev.2011-08-03-21.00.txt
[00:05:04] <jbott> Log:            http://transcripts.jboss.org/meeting/irc.freenode.org/seam-dev/2011/seam-dev.2011-08-03-21.00.log.html
[00:05:05] <mojavelinux> the tasks looks like a great idea too
[00:05:05] <lightguard_jp> Good stuff going on (as always)
[00:05:30] <gastaldi> I would love to see Seam Drools firing some CDI events :)
[00:05:48] <hannelita> Would be nice to see jbpm also :)
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[00:06:54] 
[00:07:11] <ssachtleben> gastaldi where do I see this encoding in chrome?
[00:07:21] <hannelita> gastaldi: idk, because jbpm5 has several problems with AS 7
[00:07:31] <gastaldi> ssachtleben: You need to see the HTTP headers.
[00:07:48] <gastaldi> Options -> Tools -> Developer tools
[00:08:08] <gastaldi> ssachtleben: Open the network tab
[00:08:41] <gastaldi> gotta hit the road now
[00:08:44] <gastaldi> see ya guys
[00:08:48] <gastaldi> Nice meeting btw
[00:08:50] <ssachtleben> ok thanks
[00:09:04] <hannelita> cya gastaldi!
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[00:11:10] <mojavelinux> we really need to get the drools and jbpm teams to put forward their roadmap for cdi integration
[00:11:34] <mojavelinux> we've talked a lot about it in passing, but those won't be seam modules...rather hosted natively in the projects (similiar to the infinispan integration)
[00:11:37] <lightguard_jp> Yeah, that's an email that needs to be sent
[00:11:57] <mojavelinux> and we should not feel pressure, that pressure should be on those teams
[00:12:08] <mojavelinux> we have enough on our plate, they need to step up
[00:12:38] <lightguard_jp> I'm not sure who to send that too. Probably tsurdilo, but are there others?
[00:13:12] <mojavelinux> Mark Proctor
[00:13:13] <mojavelinux> for sure
[00:13:21] <mojavelinux> we need a roadmap and a committment
[00:13:37] <mojavelinux> this is serious stuff
[00:13:55] <tsurdilo> mojavelinux: i think it will bubble up to management alongside allocation..we got brms 5.2 going on atm
[00:14:18] <lightguard_jp> I'm going to be heading out for a little bit.
[00:14:20] <tsurdilo> i personally cannot commit 100% of time until thats done even if krisv told me to to do now
[00:14:26] <mojavelinux> right, I understand
[00:14:34] <mojavelinux> that's why I think it needs to go upwards as you suggested
[00:14:43] <lightguard_jp> Even an approximate time line would be nice.
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[00:14:54] <mojavelinux> the problem is that we are getting a lot of heat from the community about not having a plan
[00:15:03] <lightguard_jp> We've been very mum on communicating drools / jbpm support
[00:15:09] <lightguard_jp> Yep
[00:15:14] <mojavelinux> and I don't mean personally, I mean Red Hat is getting a lot of complaints about it
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[00:15:22] <mojavelinux> I saw it at the booth at the last two conferences
[00:15:37] <tsurdilo> ok ok ease up on me a little..i had it 90 % done before it was decided for it to move to drools and jbpm repos ..out of seam3 repo
[00:15:45] <tsurdilo> then i got all kinds of requests on xml changes
[00:15:54] <tsurdilo> and jbpm5 release work
[00:16:11] <tsurdilo> ?so yes please get mark p and krisv to give you their professional opinions..not dump this on me please
[00:16:19] <tsurdilo> this == frustration :)
[00:16:34] <mojavelinux> don't worry, i'm not coming down on you or anything, I'm just saying I think it's important to talk about it ;)
[00:16:55] <lightguard_jp> tsurdilo: Okay, wasn't placing blame.
[00:16:57] <mojavelinux> I didn't mean to sound frustrated
[00:17:10] <tsurdilo> its ok :)
[00:17:14] <lightguard_jp> I'll get that email out in a day or two.
[00:17:23] <tsurdilo> im a little miffed myself for not getting the time to do just finish it up
[00:17:24] <mojavelinux> to put it a better way
[00:17:37] <tsurdilo> seam3 work is a ton of fun (remember late late nights mojavelinux) ?
[00:17:47] <mojavelinux> let's just touch base with the team and make sure CDI is in the roadmap, that's all
[00:17:56] <mojavelinux> I love the late nights :)
[00:17:58] <mojavelinux> great times
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[00:18:45] <mojavelinux> if there is anyone who understands being overload, trust me, I know the feeling
[00:18:50] <lincolnthree> what night isn't a late night?
[00:19:08] <mojavelinux> we just don't want to lose the faith of those good seam 2 users who enjoy the drools and jbpm integration
[00:19:18] <mojavelinux> they really want this stuff in EE 6
[00:21:03] <mojavelinux> jason and I will follow up with an e-mail, tsurdilo...hopefully help to get the ball rolling again
[00:21:05] <tsurdilo> mojavelinux: agree. kris did tell me not too long ago that i will get time to focus on finishing up..when thats question for them
[00:21:23] <mojavelinux> great...what I hope is that we can help you get support to do it ;)
[00:23:17] <mojavelinux> again, sorry for sounding a little anxious
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[00:28:02] <conan> tsurdilo: wassup?
[00:28:19] <tsurdilo> mojavelinux: ^ ask away :)
[00:29:09] <conan> mojavelinux: hiya. as I said at JBW. first step is your guy in AU needs to show we can match our existing xml schemas for configuration. we don't want to completely different xml schemas for effectively the same thing.
[00:29:31] <conan> mojavelinux: we don't need him to implment it all, we just need an illustrative example that shows it can do it. i.e. do what spring does.
[00:29:43] <ssachtleben> where do I set -Dfile.encoding correctly? If I add that as vm parameter to jboss in eclipse there will be still another -Dfile.encoding at the end which is not set in the vm params in eclipse
[00:29:55] <conan> mojavelinux: as far as I can tell at the moment the xml stuff is purely xml by convention and doesn't have hte level of sophistication that spring has. I'm hoping you prove me wrong :)
[00:30:23] <mojavelinux> first, the AU guy is now a JBoss guy :) that's stuartdouglas
[00:30:41] <mojavelinux> of course, he was always a JBoss guy :) now he's just on the staff too
[00:30:55] <conan> mojavelinux:  tsurdilo just needs a little sample code
[00:30:59] <mojavelinux> there are two avenues to go from there
[00:31:07] <conan> mojavelinux: beacuse at the moment it's not clear how to do xml in any other way than by convention.
[00:31:21] <mojavelinux> first, I would really like to avoid if possible having XML at all? do we need it? the idea of CDI is to do this stuff declaratively in the Java code
[00:31:39] <conan> mojavelinux: sorry you don't understand drools use cases
[00:31:39] <mojavelinux> we want to get away from XML hell
[00:31:44] <conan> we are a dynamic system that changes over time
[00:31:51] <conan> we need document centric communication
[00:32:05] <conan> mojavelinux: you need to stop thinking in static java classes ;)
[00:32:05] <mojavelinux> I understand that, Java code doesn't mean hard coded
[00:32:23] <conan> mojavelinux: anyway we aren't dumping xml, we'll aim to do xml and annnotations.
[00:32:32] <mojavelinux> got it
[00:32:33] <conan> but first I need a document centric format
[00:32:45] <mojavelinux> okay...got a question for you then
[00:32:58] <conan> and for different formats - be it xml,json, yaml etc. I want to keep a single schema.
[00:33:08] <mojavelinux> is the XML configuration you have now spring-specific, or is it just a general purpose XML schema?
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[00:33:23] <conan> no we purposefully did domain specific xml
[00:33:28] <mojavelinux> ah
[00:33:29] <conan> default spring xml is too verbose
[00:33:31] <mojavelinux> good news then
[00:33:42] <conan> I put a lot of effort into total custom namespace extensions
[00:33:51] <mojavelinux> the xml metadata that we do in seam config is just an example of how to consume xml metadata
[00:34:06] <conan> let me et you an example
[00:34:14] <mojavelinux> in the end, we are registering beans from any external metadata...so if we need to support reading a different syntax, that's totally possible with cdi
[00:34:17] <conan> once we get a baseline in the document centrix approach
[00:34:22] <mojavelinux> nothing is tying us to the seam config approach
[00:34:24] <conan> we can explore annotation driven stuff
[00:34:27] <mojavelinux> got it
[00:35:00] <conan> https://github.com/droolsjbpm/droolsjbpm-integration/blob/master/drools-container/drools-spring/src/main/resources/org/drools/container/spring/drools-spring-1.4.0.xsd
[00:35:04] <stuartdouglas> personally I think annotations only really make sense when the configuration is tied to a specific java class
[00:35:26] <conan> https://github.com/droolsjbpm/droolsjbpm-integration/blob/master/drools-container/drools-spring/src/test/resources/org/drools/container/spring/no-node-beans.xml
[00:35:30] <stuartdouglas> otherwise you have to look through the whole code base for configuration annotations that could be anywhere
[00:35:36] <conan> https://github.com/droolsjbpm/droolsjbpm-integration/blob/master/drools-container/drools-spring/src/test/resources/org/drools/container/spring/listeners.xml
[00:36:20] <mojavelinux> stuartdouglas: in response, what I would say is that this configuration would be much better in yaml
[00:36:21] <conan> we can worry about the annotation stuff later
[00:36:30] <conan> first i want to address the document centric approach
[00:36:51] <mojavelinux> the idea of the annotations is to serve as a type-safe reference to a configuration set
[00:36:58] <mojavelinux> so it's really nothing more than that...so yes, I agree
[00:37:13] <mojavelinux> having a document centric approach I get what you need now
[00:37:27] <mojavelinux> and where we go with the annotation is to have it correlate with such a document
[00:37:32] <mojavelinux> so, take the case of JPA
[00:37:49] <mojavelinux> we have something like @UserDatabase refer to <persistence-unit name="user"> in persistence.xml
[00:37:55] <mojavelinux> a much simpler case, I understand
[00:38:01] <conan> we'll look at annotations for pure configurations too
[00:38:05] <mojavelinux> but anyway, the idea is to just to avoid having string references throughout the Java code
[00:38:09] <mojavelinux> cool
[00:38:09] <conan> which will obviosly tie the configuration to that class
[00:38:11] <conan> but it's all possible
[00:38:17] <conan> but I want to start iwth a baseline first
[00:38:21] <mojavelinux> got it
[00:38:32] <conan> most of our users will be expecting a document centric approach
[00:38:47] <conan> you have to rmember as well our configurations are dynamic and updated over time too, incrememtally.
[00:38:54] <mojavelinux> that makes sense, we are bringing them into this programming style after all, gradually
[00:38:57] <mojavelinux> yep
[00:39:03] <conan> I can have a running drools session and add/remove rules to it - without re-deploying.
[00:39:14] <conan> I don't really want to send beans around for that
[00:39:17] <mojavelinux> yep, I know that's a key value offering
[00:40:08] <conan> so as you can see
[00:40:14] <conan> I put a lot of effort in to get compact xml
[00:40:23] <conan> reducing the nested brackets as much as possible
[00:40:38] <conan> while still keeping it schema safe
[00:40:46] <conan> so that it's readable - well as readable as xml gets :)
[00:40:46] <mojavelinux> good...so basically we need an adapter between that and the cdi bean registration
[00:40:52] <conan> I'd liek a yaml approach
[00:41:04] <conan> but no good yaml schema/completion solutions yet
[00:41:07] <mojavelinux> bob really made me appreciate yaml when I started playing w/ torquebox
[00:41:14] <conan> qwalify is still a work in progress
[00:41:18] <conan> yeah I love yaml
[00:41:31] <conan> but we need an XSD
[00:41:50] <conan> http://www.kuwata-lab.com/kwalify/
[00:41:54] <conan> is getting there
[00:42:04] <mojavelinux> stuartdouglas: do you think we should have another seam config provider that can consume the more advanced XSD schema for Drools?
[00:42:07] <conan> no java version yet
[00:42:15] <mojavelinux> or should we consider supporting that in seam-config-xml as is?
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[00:42:30] <mojavelinux> my gut tells me we need a special provider, perhaps that uses parts of seam-config-xml
[00:42:31] <conan> mojavelinux: so the only spring specific part of our xml
[00:42:40] <conan> mojavelinux: is that we can take spring bean objects in places
[00:42:48] <conan> https://github.com/droolsjbpm/droolsjbpm-integration/blob/master/drools-container/drools-spring/src/test/resources/org/drools/container/spring/listeners.xml see line 70
[00:42:58] <conan> but that I can live with as a difference
[00:43:08] <mojavelinux> those could be references to a cdi component
[00:43:11] <conan> I assume the different for constructing a standard bean is very similar
[00:43:13] <mojavelinux> or we could even support those references
[00:43:16] <stuartdouglas> maybe the drools module should just do it's own xml handling?
[00:43:24] <mojavelinux> right, that's what I mean
[00:43:27] <conan> line 70 i just standard spring <bean class="org.drools.container.spring.MockWorkingMemoryEventListener"/>
[00:43:31] <mojavelinux> that it builds on the base of seam config
[00:43:37] <mojavelinux> (if even that is necessary)
[00:43:40] <conan> but if it was a cdi bean instead, I'm ok with that.
[00:43:57] <conan> maybe we can updated the schema to support multiple generic bean definitions
[00:44:17] <mojavelinux> the nice part about cdi extensions is that there is no reference to XML bean metadata at all, that is an adapter layer we can add however we want
[00:44:26] <mojavelinux> so it's an open book
[00:45:10] <conan> great
[00:45:17] <conan> so back to the start of our conversation
[00:45:25] <conan> if you guys can show a minimal POC
[00:45:29] <conan> we'll flesh it out and finsih it
[00:45:48] <mojavelinux> great...jason and I will kick off an e-mail to exchange the info
[00:46:00] <mojavelinux> should that go to you and tsurdilo?
[00:46:02] <conan> I know I'm being a pita
[00:46:06] <conan> but for my user base
[00:46:14] <conan> if we end up with two widely different schemas
[00:46:16] <mojavelinux> no, it's fine, heck, I'm glad we are discussing it!
[00:46:17] <conan> it'll confuse peopel
[00:46:18] <mojavelinux> hehehe
[00:46:27] <conan> the up side is
[00:46:31] <conan> it means anyone on spring
[00:46:34] <conan> with drools
[00:46:37] <mojavelinux> I trust you with your technology...we just want to get the cdi story going
[00:46:38] <conan> can migrate to weld
[00:46:42] <conan> with minimal fuss
[00:46:45] <conan> so there is advantages here
[00:46:52] <mojavelinux> fair enough
[00:47:00] <conan> I do strongly recommend you get camel adapters asap
[00:47:06] <conan> camel is seriously hot these days
[00:47:11] <conan> and spring is defacto for it
[00:47:16] <conan> and camel is gonna be supported at jboss next year
[00:47:30] <conan> we have camel integration for drools via spring
[00:47:45] <conan> so if you want our users to migrate from spring, you'll need that missing layer.
[00:47:56] <mojavelinux> where do you envision the camel adapters fitting...like in seam config (or solder)?
[00:47:59] <conan> otherwise you have a barrier to adoption compared to spring for our user base.
[00:48:03] <conan> let me show you
[00:48:05] <mojavelinux> k
[00:48:11] <mojavelinux> I like show and tell :)
[00:48:44] <hannelita> I think camel integration would be nice with a new module like "Seam ESB"
[00:49:33] <conan> camel will become the main wiring glue for pipelines n switch yard
[00:49:40] <mojavelinux> that's another case where it should be a cdi module for the esb project
[00:49:44] <conan> but I don't think keith will get time to do a weld front end to camel
[00:49:55] <mojavelinux> i know it's a little fuzzy, but seam is basically growing up and out :)
[00:50:38] <conan> so this is how trivial it is to setup drools with rest via spring and camel
[00:50:39] <conan> https://github.com/droolsjbpm/droolsjbpm-integration/blob/master/drools-camel/src/test/resources/org/drools/camel/component/CxfRsSpring.xml
[00:50:53] <conan> go to line 59
[00:51:02] <conan> so prior to that is the xml you already saw
[00:51:21] <conan> and we can take any rs msg and pipeline it into a drools running session
[00:52:31] <mojavelinux> wow, that's powerful...it's like yahoo pipes for middleware services
[00:53:06] <conan> yup
[00:53:10] <conan> now imagine that works for any input type
[00:53:16] <mojavelinux> funny it makes these social media decision engines seem trivial to implement then
[00:53:21] <conan> jms, files, rs, im
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[00:53:30] <conan> and it supports ALL entierprise integration patterns
[00:53:44] <conan> it's really is very cool
[00:53:58] <conan> it's the defacto middleware glue now for services
[00:54:23] <conan> you can handle all of these patterns declarative with it http://camel.apache.org/enterprise-integration-patterns.html
[00:54:27] <mojavelinux> now I see what people are raving about
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[00:54:30] <conan> it's not tied to spring
[00:54:36] <conan> it has a nice java dsl though
[00:54:49] <conan> mojavelinux: writting custom components for it is trivial too.
[00:55:15] <conan> http://camel.apache.org/components.html
[00:55:19] <conan> checkout all the components
[00:55:26] <conan> now this is only one part of what makes up an ESB
[00:55:39] <conan> but argueably it's the central part, the most important part.
[00:55:50] <mojavelinux> drool
[00:55:53] <conan> I've been pushing camel for ages now at JB, argueing we simply cannoy justyf not using it.
[00:56:03] <conan> doing our own would be complete madness
[00:56:25] <conan> mojavelinux: all that's needed is that yahoo pipes like tooling
[00:56:28] <mojavelinux> this comes down to something I've been saying for a while, the hardest part in tech is adoption :)
[00:56:35] <conan> mojavelinux: but yes, it's like yahoo pipes but incredibly powerful.
[00:56:43] <mojavelinux> getting people to understand what possibilities you are giving them
[00:56:48] <conan> mojavelinux: yeah camel is getting crazy adoption now.
[00:57:05] <conan> imagine once jboss standardises on it next year
[00:57:09] <conan> the weight that'll bring to it
[00:57:14] <conan> drools has already standardised on it
[00:57:21] <mojavelinux> way to be progressive
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[00:57:46] <conan> potentially it's a great weapon against IBM and others too :)
[00:57:50] <conan> because developers want it
[00:57:55] <conan> it's lightweight
[00:58:20] <conan> comment from someone just doing some work with drools and camel, today actually:
[00:58:20] <conan> [17:14] <vkiran> very cool; strange to think that It took me a day to get a file copy from dir1 to dir2 kind of example using OpenESB/JavaCAPs
[00:58:20] <conan> [17:14] <vkiran> took less than an hour to understand and create more advanced samples with Camel
[00:58:36] <mojavelinux> now you are speaking my language
[00:58:44] <conan> anyway enough evanglisation now :)
[00:58:53] <mojavelinux> the biggest issue in tech is that these heavyweight solutions think they can sell themselves
[00:58:57] <conan> I actually started my own pipeline
[00:59:01] <conan> and it sucked
[00:59:03] <mojavelinux> when in fact, they do worse, they make people hate the idea altogether
[00:59:06] <conan> I wanted something lightweight
[00:59:16] <conan> camel initially seemed to overwhelming
[00:59:22] <conan> especially back in 2009
[00:59:25] <mojavelinux> i'll read up more on it...if you have any recommend reading, send it my way or just tweet it
[00:59:29] <conan> but I went through the code
[00:59:31] <conan> and examples
[00:59:34] <conan> and it gradually made sense
[00:59:35] <mojavelinux> btw, I have a quick idea to run by you while you are on the line
[00:59:43] <conan> it needs better communication, but it's getting there.
[00:59:44] <mojavelinux> I know it's much simpler in comparison, but still powerful
[00:59:46] <conan> camel book is on it's way out.
[00:59:53] <mojavelinux> so one of the requests we get *a lot* with testing and Arquillian
[01:00:23] <mojavelinux> is to be able to determine which tests run...sometimes you want tests for a particular target environment, sometimes tests that are fast vs slow, sometimes tests associated with a customer use case you are demoing
[01:00:24] <conan> is..... ?
[01:00:35] <sbryzak> morning all
[01:00:42] <mojavelinux> and these test frameworks have these ultra primitive filters, like @Ignore or @Category
[01:00:57] <mojavelinux> I was thinking, wouldn't it be cool if you could have Drools decide which tests get run under different circumstances
[01:00:57] <conan> so you want a selection language?
[01:01:00] <conan> like a query api?
[01:01:03] <conan> sure
[01:01:06] <conan> drools is a superset of SQL
[01:01:08] <mojavelinux> so we are talking about having a filter layer in Arquillian
[01:01:31] <conan> so you can defined and execute queries in drools
[01:01:32] <mojavelinux> and Drools could be one of the implementations of the filter
[01:01:54] <mojavelinux> yeah, like for instance, run tests with the word "Bank" in them
[01:02:00] <mojavelinux> or something like that
[01:02:13] <conan> all our unit tests for querie https://github.com/droolsjbpm/drools/blob/master/drools-compiler/src/test/java/org/drools/integrationtests/QueryTest.java
[01:02:15] <mojavelinux> obviously the more metadata we can expose, the more powerful the selection
[01:02:24] <conan> if you want to see really cool stuff
[01:02:25] <conan> https://github.com/droolsjbpm/drools/blob/master/drools-compiler/src/test/java/org/drools/integrationtests/BackwardChainingTest.java
[01:02:30] <conan> we have derivation queries
[01:02:38] <conan> iagine completely data driven applications
[01:03:20] <conan> http://blog.athico.com/2011/06/truth-maintenance-over-directed-graphs.html
[01:04:37] <ssachtleben> bleathem its primefaces !!! if I remove that specials characters are ok
[01:04:49] <bleathem> :D
[01:04:50] <mojavelinux> adrian and I were even talking about getting information about the location of the cloud provider (like amazon east) and run different tests for that...the possibilities just get endless
[01:04:59] <conan> in the BAckwardChaininTest see line 1183 NaniSearch for how to write an adventure game in drools
[01:05:47] <mojavelinux> hahah, reminds me of stuart's princess rescue example, where he defines a game using bean declarations
[01:05:51] <ssachtleben> but I'm not sure if the problem is based on using primefaces mit seam together
[01:06:04] <ssachtleben> with*
[01:06:06] <mojavelinux> :)
[01:06:49] <mojavelinux> okay, gotta run soon. thanks for chatting Mark! I'm excited to get the ball rolling to put the power of drools in the hands of the EE 6 developers :)
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[01:35:19] <mojavelinux> dinner time, lincoln is cooking!
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[02:24:21] <ssachtleben> hey
[02:25:52] <ssachtleben> I want to have something like a maintaince page if I update my application and I want to add a repository path outside of webapp as subdomain
[02:26:13] <ssachtleben> is it ok to have apache infront of the jboss or is it a bottleneck?
[02:26:45] <jbossbot> git [jcr] push develop 3211b93.. John Ament Minor bug fixes in OCM for handling null cases.  Cleaned up debug messages.
[02:26:46] <jbossbot> git [jcr] push develop URL: http://github.com/seam/jcr/compare/02b62a4...3211b93
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[02:35:35] <lightguard_jp_aw> back
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[02:47:14] <clerum1> anyone have issues getting faces-config to load in as7?
[02:47:38] <hannelita> clerum1: I had some problems
[02:47:55] <clerum1> did you find a solution?
[02:48:11] <clerum1> doesn't appear to be picking it up and thus I have no navigation fules
[02:48:58] <hannelita> clerum1: yep, security module was causing some problems, I think. I was working with jbpm also, and it was causing lots of problems to faces-config
[02:49:26] <clerum1> hmm
[02:49:44] <clerum1> I get no errors it just silently fails to load the nvaigation rules
[02:49:56] <hannelita> clerum1: is something shown into AS7 log?
[02:50:28] <clerum1> nothing
[02:50:31] <johnament> I've found now coding is really easy, it's a pain to write the docs.
[02:50:54] <clerum1> only faces related thing in the startup log is 00:31:28,962 INFO  [javax.enterprise.resource.webcontainer.jsf.config] (MSC service thread 1-6) Initializing Mojarra 2.0.4 (FCS b09-jbossorg-4) for context '/hermes'
[02:51:07] <clerum1> and I can't seem to get debugging level to increase
[02:52:08] <stuartdouglas> clerum1: any chance you could do an arquillian test case?
[02:53:01] <stuartdouglas> otherwise file a jira, and I will look into it when I get a chance
[02:53:10] <clerum1> don't have the time unfortutunatly
[02:53:17] <clerum1> I'll probably just back down to AS7
[02:53:20] <clerum1> err 6
[02:54:11] <clerum1> all I should have to is add something like
[02:54:11] <clerum1> <logger category="javax.enterprise.resource.webcontainer.jsf">
[02:54:11] <clerum1>                 <level name="DEBUG"/>
[02:54:11] <clerum1>             </logger>
[02:54:16] <clerum1> to standalone.xml right?
[02:54:25] <stuartdouglas> I think so
[02:56:32] <clerum1> it shows in the admin console @ DEBUG but nothing gets logged
[02:57:24] <stuartdouglas> maybe there is just no decent logging
[02:58:05] <clerum1> seemed to log fine in 6
[02:58:26] <clerum1> I'll hop back down to AS6 for now
[02:58:48] <clerum1> don't quite have the time to be on the bleeding edge right now
[02:58:50] <clerum1> thanks though
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[03:34:14] <gastaldi> hey
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[03:38:01] 
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[03:54:49] <gastaldi> hey mojavelinux
[03:56:20] <jbossbot> git [jcr] push develop f400788.. John Ament Added OCM text, cleaned up code per George's comments.
[03:56:21] <jbossbot> git [jcr] push develop c47b910.. John Ament Removed PT translation files to reduce confusion.
[03:56:21] <jbossbot> git [jcr] push develop URL: http://github.com/seam/jcr/compare/3211b93...c47b910
[03:56:25] <gastaldi> ay
[03:56:34] <johnament> hey
[03:56:35] <gastaldi> hey johnament
[03:56:46] <gastaldi> You know, long.class is different from Long.TYPE
[03:57:02] <johnament> gastaldi, that's what i thought.
[03:57:06] <gastaldi> :)
[03:57:18] <gastaldi> Stupid compiler huh?
[03:57:18] <johnament> Long.TYPE == java.lang.Long.class
[03:57:30] 
[03:58:10] 
[03:59:02] <johnament> right
[03:59:03] <johnament> Assert.assertTrue(Long.TYPE == long.class);
[03:59:06] <johnament> passes
[03:59:10] <johnament> Assert.assertTrue(Long.TYPE == Long.class);
[03:59:12] <johnament> fails
[03:59:19] <gastaldi> hummm Nice
[03:59:20] <johnament> so i think my code did the same thing before and after
[03:59:41] <gastaldi> Ok, the secret is on the primitive use then
[03:59:48] <gastaldi> the compiler is not that stupid :)
[04:00:46] 
[04:01:43] <johnament> Assert.assertTrue(Long.TYPE.equals(long.class)); and Assert.assertTrue(Long.TYPE.equals(Long.class)); do the same as above
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[04:03:07] <gastaldi> I think I slipped with the Long.class and the Long.TYPE class
[04:03:39] <gastaldi> whatever.
[04:04:17] <johnament> it's fine
[04:04:37] <gastaldi> is the OCM support ok ?
[04:04:47] <johnament> beautiful
[04:05:04] <gastaldi> cool
[04:05:20] <jbossbot> git [reports] push develop 277f5a4.. George Gastaldi Added xdocreport to default distribution
[04:05:20] <jbossbot> git [reports] push develop URL: http://github.com/seam/reports/compare/2640cba...277f5a4
[04:05:59] <johnament> i have to move the tests into jackrabbit, but i think it'll be fine.
[04:06:06] <gastaldi> hum
[04:06:14] <gastaldi> yeah
[04:06:24] 
[04:06:36] <johnament> it should be
[04:06:55] <johnament> but i know there are differences with credentials between the two so.
[04:07:02] <johnament> anyways gotta run, exhausted.
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[04:45:44] <jbossbot> git [jcr] push develop 1985a84.. George Gastaldi Merge branch 'develop' of https://github.com/seam/jcr into develop
[04:45:44] <jbossbot> git [jcr] push develop 97e795b.. George Gastaldi Removed warnings and reformatted code
[04:45:44] <jbossbot> git [jcr] push develop 24a820d.. George Gastaldi Reformatted API code
[04:45:44] <jbossbot> git [jcr] push develop e428964.. George Gastaldi Merge pull request #24 from gastaldi/develop...
[04:45:44] <jbossbot> git [jcr] push develop URL: http://github.com/seam/jcr/compare/c47b910...e428964
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[07:34:51] <hannelita> lightguard_jp: ping
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[07:39:25] <lightguard_jp> hannelita: Yes?
[07:44:01] <lightguard_jp> hannelita: Which city do you live in?
[07:44:25] <hannelita> lightguard_jp: Ops, sry, I was writing you an email :) I live in Sao Paulo
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[07:49:21] <lightguard_jp> hannelita: You're a student, aren't you?
[07:50:31] <hannelita> lightguard_jp: Yes :)
[07:50:43] <hannelita> lightguard_jp: but I also work
[07:51:54] <lightguard_jp> I'm writing a blog post to announce your contribution to seam with examples and docs. Do you have a bio or anything you'd like me to use?
[07:52:34] <hannelita> oh, just a sec
[07:52:46] <hannelita> I'll find it here
[07:55:58] <lightguard_jp> hannelita: Were?
[07:56:22] <hannelita> lightguard_jp: can I paste here?
[07:56:38] <lightguard_jp> If it's multi line an email would probably be better.
[07:56:57] <hannelita> lightguard_jp: Okay, I'll send it to your email
[07:56:59] <hannelita> :)
[07:57:04] <lightguard_jp> hannelita: Or if you're on gtalk we could do it that way
[07:57:16] <hannelita> with some questions :P
[07:58:19] <hannelita> lightguard_jp: I'm on gtalk
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[09:44:02] <lightguard_jp> stuartdouglas: Mind answering this one? http://seamframework.org/Community/Seam3JBoss7AndSeamSolderAsAJbossModule
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[11:00:50] <Diablo-D3> 04:56:46,863 INFO  [org.jboss.as] (Controller Boot Thread) JBoss AS 7.0.0.Final "Lightning" started in 2167ms - Started 93 of 148 services (55 services are passive or on-demand)
[11:00:51] <Diablo-D3> teehee
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[12:09:24] <Diablo-D3> well this is fun
[12:09:38] <Diablo-D3> Caused by: java.lang.RuntimeException: Error getting reflective information for class org.jboss.seam.international.datetimezone.DefaultDateTimeZoneProducer
[12:09:38] <Diablo-D3> 	at org.jboss.as.server.deployment.reflect.DeploymentReflectionIndex.getClassIndex(DeploymentReflectionIndex.java:70)
[12:09:38] <Diablo-D3> 	at org.jboss.as.ee.component.EEModuleClassDescription$DefaultConfigurator.configure(EEModuleClassDescription.java:144)
[12:09:38] <Diablo-D3> 	at org.jboss.as.ee.component.EEClassConfigurationProcessor.deploy(EEClassConfigurationProcessor.java:100)
[12:09:40] <Diablo-D3> 	at org.jboss.as.server.deployment.DeploymentUnitPhaseService.start(DeploymentUnitPhaseService.java:115)
[12:09:42] <Diablo-D3> 	... 5 more
[12:09:49] <Diablo-D3> Caused by: java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: org/joda/time/DateTimeZone
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[12:20:23] <Diablo-D3> problem is
[12:20:31] <Diablo-D3> Im not using that part of international
[12:20:36] <Diablo-D3> infact, Im not using it at all
[12:20:40] <Diablo-D3> something Im using is
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[12:23:29] <Diablo-D3> apparently seam-faces is screwing me
[12:27:09] <Diablo-D3> wtf.
[12:27:19] <Diablo-D3> Im using the version that 7 has
[12:27:31] <Diablo-D3> I switch to scope provided
[12:27:33] <Diablo-D3> it still fails
[12:27:34] <Diablo-D3> ergo
[12:27:41] <Diablo-D3> the seam faces that ships with as 7 is broken
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[13:29:02] <jose_freitas> g'morning
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[14:18:19] <nickarls> diablo: no faces is shipped with as 7
[14:18:26] <nickarls> you have to include joda-time currently
[14:18:42] <nickarls> is it's an "optional" dep. which is not that optional due to a bug in AS7
[14:18:47] <nickarls> so just add it as a dep
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[14:34:06] <jose_freitas> nickarls: ping
[14:44:38] <jose_freitas> I like the first solution (the one with a class responsible only for loading bundles. -loader.loadBundle-). It's quite simple and will help a lot extending the way we could load data for our resourcebundle.
[14:44:46] <jose_freitas> I'll post this on the jira
[14:47:02] <jose_freitas> would you like to be assigned for the issue?
[14:47:07] <jose_freitas> nickarls ^
[14:49:22] <nickarls> jose: sure, I could try. I'm using a setup like that already for my own app
[14:49:38] <nickarls> of course, there is the boring stuff of writing tests etc ;-)
[14:50:54] <nickarls> did you prefer the @Inject BundleLoader or Instance<BundleLoader> approach?
[14:51:26] <nickarls> the straight injection with a default loader has the disadvantage that you have to @Specialize it to override it
[14:51:36] <nickarls> and it's currently a no-go on AS7 due to a structure bug
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[14:57:32] <jose_freitas> @Inject BundleLoader
[14:58:02] <jose_freitas> but I didn't knew about this AS7 bug
[14:58:07] <jose_freitas> hmm
[14:58:23] <jose_freitas> (nice to know btw)
[14:58:39] <Diablo-D3> [08:15:18] <nickarls> diablo: no faces is shipped with as 7
[14:58:40] <Diablo-D3> erm
[14:58:41] <Diablo-D3> no?
[14:59:12] <Diablo-D3> oh wait, its not
[14:59:17] <Diablo-D3> meh
[14:59:20] <jose_freitas> well, since it would be nice to have this on release 3.1, and we're testing mainly with AS7, we have to go for the second approach.
[15:02:38] <jose_freitas> but the first solution seems way better. sadly that we've faced this bug
[15:03:28] <Diablo-D3> DEAR LIBRARIES/FRAMEWORKS WRITTEN IN JAVA
[15:03:46] <Diablo-D3> JUST PUT THE GODDAMNED MAVEN POM XML SO I CAN COPY PASTE IT ON YOUR FRONT PAGE
[15:03:51] <Diablo-D3> SIGNED ANGRY DEV
[15:04:48] <jose_freitas> nickarls: you might bump the seam-dev maillist about those two approachs, maybe someone have something more to say.
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[15:07:32] <Diablo-D3> PS, YES THAT MEANS YOU JODA TIME
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[16:16:23] <jbossbot> git [security] push develop 8adb507.. Shane Bryzak move responsibility for additional user attributes to the provider
[16:16:23] <jbossbot> git [security] push develop URL: http://github.com/seam/security/compare/d05c235...8adb507
[16:16:32] <jbossbot> git [university] push master f24ad25.. Shane Bryzak post-authentication member validation, added user name to header
[16:16:32] <jbossbot> git [university] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/university/compare/0d5e12f...f24ad25
[16:16:45] <jbossbot> git [xwidgets] push master a96b304.. Shane Bryzak fire DeferredAuthenticationEvent for failed authentications
[16:16:45] <jbossbot> git [xwidgets] push master 51530a9.. Shane Bryzak support for returning attributes during authentication request, fix signature verification issue
[16:16:45] <jbossbot> git [xwidgets] push master ef0b2dc.. Shane Bryzak ParameterList still wants to bitch about the params format, so fine, we'll do it my way
[16:16:46] <jbossbot> git [xwidgets] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/xwidgets/compare/5365c24...ef0b2dc
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[16:47:06] <gastaldi> morning folks !
[16:47:12] <gastaldi> hey jose_freitas
[16:47:17] <gastaldi> hey lightguard_jp
[16:47:52] 
[16:48:00] <sbryzak> gastaldi: morning
[16:49:41] <jose_freitas> morning gastaldi
[16:49:45] <jose_freitas> how you doing?
[16:50:03] <gastaldi> fine, u ?
[16:50:12] <gastaldi> Nice weather today
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[16:52:02] <gastaldi> sbryzak: jose_freitas shot an email about which issues will we be targeting on seam security
[16:52:28] 
[16:52:42] <sbryzak> ah yes, i need to put together a list
[16:52:48] <sbryzak> i'll have something ready this weekend
[16:54:31] <gastaldi> Ace !
[16:54:59] <sbryzak> finally, i have dual authentication working in seam security
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[16:55:09] <sbryzak> so you can either log in with identity management, or use open id
[16:55:13] <sbryzak> all through ajax
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[16:55:32] <sbryzak> seam university i mean
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[16:55:59] <gastaldi> sbryzak: How did you manage to solve that ?
[16:56:12] <sbryzak> gastaldi: it was extremely hard
[16:56:18] <sbryzak> i fixed the major problem last night
[16:56:26] <sbryzak> which i'd been stuck on since last saturday
[16:56:30] <gastaldi> :P
[16:56:45] <sbryzak> i had some session scoped objects which were disappearing
[16:56:54] <sbryzak> and i tracked it down to a cookie issue
[16:57:31] <gastaldi> yeah, I followed until that
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[16:57:55] <sbryzak> anyway, i solved it by doing all openid interaction between the client and server using remoting
[16:58:02] <gastaldi> hum
[16:58:06] <gastaldi> No Session Tracking ?
[16:58:14] <sbryzak> rather than use the open id servlet that comes with the seam external security module
[16:58:26] <sbryzak> the session was fine when i used remoting
[16:58:42] <gastaldi> strange one, sounds like an issue for the Open id servlet ?
[16:59:06] <sbryzak> possibly, and while i found a workaround i still don't understand the problem fully
[16:59:17] <sbryzak> but i've wasted too much time on it for now to delve any deeper
[16:59:45] <sbryzak> i ended up having to use wireshark to inspect every single http packet that was sent and received
[17:00:02] <sbryzak> it was a massive pain, i wish things would just work (tm)
[17:00:38] <gastaldi> Bloody
[17:00:48] <gastaldi> Bloody hard
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[17:02:04] <gastaldi> But have you discovered anything ?
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[17:03:16] 
[17:03:33] <gastaldi> Like, not adding the cookies correctly
[17:05:01] <sbryzak> gastaldi: no, it's the browser not doing it
[17:05:10] <gastaldi> humm
[17:05:10] <sbryzak> it adds the cookie for some request paths, but not others
[17:05:18] 
[17:05:34] <sbryzak> oh, and one weird thing is that it doesn't seem to add the cookie for GET requests
[17:05:46] <sbryzak> although from the research i did it seemed like it should
[17:06:16] <sbryzak> i could probably work it out if i read the cookie spec, but i don't have time right now
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[17:08:18] <gastaldi> lightguard_jp: you there ?
[17:14:53] <gastaldi> I am getting org.apache.maven.lifecycle.LifecycleExecutionException: Failed to execute goal org.codehaus.mojo:emma-maven-plugin:1.0-alpha-2:instrument (instrumentation) on project seam-jcr-impl: Execution instrumentation of goal org.codehaus.mojo:emma-maven-plugin:1.0-alpha-2:instrument failed: class [org.jboss.seam.jcr.events.EventListenerConfig] appears to be instrumented already  when building Seam JCR
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[17:20:49] <gastaldi> hey lincolnthree
[17:20:53] <lincolnthree> hey gastaldi
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[17:33:12] <jose_freitas> hey gastaldi
[17:33:45] <gastaldi> yeah ?
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[17:39:51] <gastaldi> lincolnthree: Any blocking issues in Forge ?
[17:40:30] <lincolnthree> gastaldi: hmm good question
[17:40:32] <lincolnthree> let me check
[17:40:36] <lincolnthree> i've been busy on this: https://issues.jboss.org/browse/AS7-1470
[17:40:38] <jbossbot> jira [AS7-1470] Application classes or applications referencing libraries depending on JAXB APIs fail to deploy [Open (Unresolved) Bug, Major, Jason Greene] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/AS7-1470
[17:40:43] <gastaldi> hum
[17:41:30] <gastaldi> Why not add the jaxb module dependency ?
[17:41:39] <lincolnthree> because it's wrong
[17:41:49] <lincolnthree> you shouldn't have to
[17:41:57] <gastaldi> I mean, JBoss AS7 should do it automatically
[17:42:00] <lincolnthree> oh, right
[17:42:01] <lincolnthree> yes
[17:42:01] <gastaldi> No change in app required
[17:42:03] <lincolnthree> that's the solution :)
[17:42:06] <lincolnthree> but it's currently a bug
[17:42:17] <lincolnthree> checking forge issues
[17:42:21] <gastaldi> k
[17:43:23] <gastaldi> I wonder how AS7 handles JAXB bindings on REST
[17:43:26] 
[17:43:43] <gastaldi> but should meet the same fate
[17:44:04] <lincolnthree> gastaldi: are you itching to work on something?
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[17:48:13] <gastaldi> no, just curious :)
[17:48:19] <gastaldi> Curious George
[17:48:55] <gastaldi> :)
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[17:49:17] <gastaldi> I want to see Forge 1.0 final
[17:49:33] <gastaldi> So that I can convince people to stop looking at other solutions
[17:50:09] <lincolnthree> What we really need is help with the scaffolding
[17:50:12] <lincolnthree> Really really badly
[17:50:21] 
[17:50:26] <lincolnthree> it sucks
[17:50:29] <lincolnthree> it's ugly
[17:50:30] <gastaldi> :)
[17:59:54] <gastaldi> I need someone who may help me with some Hibernate + JTS issues
[18:01:06] <lincolnthree> JTS?
[18:01:07] <lincolnthree> JTA?
[18:02:41] <gastaldi> yup
[18:02:47] <gastaldi> JTS on JBoss 4
[18:02:49] <gastaldi> PITA
[18:02:58] <gastaldi> Corba
[18:03:05] <lincolnthree> hey lightguard_jp, did you ever get your Forge test working?
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[18:24:37] <lightguard_jp> lincolnthree: It works on cli, but not in intellij
[18:27:21] <lincolnthree> lightguard_jp: ok, strange
[18:28:15] <lightguard_jp> lincolnthree: Yeah. Only thing that makes much sense is the IntelliJ console ships with some jar or something that messes things up
[18:29:02] <lincolnthree> Really strange. I'll have to figure it out, but probably not before Beta1
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[18:29:26] <lightguard_jp> that's fine
[18:29:35] <lincolnthree> Working on documenting the test harness right now
[18:30:04] <lightguard_jp> Both good things to be working on :)
[18:30:21] <lincolnthree> Also going through issues to find any blockers for Beta1
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[19:07:16] <jose_freitas> lincolnthree
[19:07:27] <jose_freitas> does forge has an official hasgtag?
[19:07:31] <jose_freitas> hashtag*
[19:07:35] <lincolnthree> #SeamForge
[19:08:50] <jose_freitas> I'm going to make a presentation about it on the developers conference Florianopolis
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[19:12:16] <gastaldi> yaaay !
[19:12:26] <gastaldi> way to go jose_freitas
[19:12:35] <gastaldi> Brazilian JBoss Evangelizer
[19:15:03] <jose_freitas> :)
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[19:59:42] <jbossbot> git [core] push master bb4cb2d.. Lincoln Baxter, III SEAMFORGE-215
[19:59:46] <jbossbot> jira [SEAMFORGE-215] Message 'JSF2 and Metawidget currently require Partial State Saving to be disabled' is Mojarra only [Closed (Done) Feature Request, Major, Lincoln Baxter III] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMFORGE-215
[19:59:46] <jbossbot> git [core] push master URL: http://github.com/forge/core/compare/89d0079...bb4cb2d
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[20:53:38] * nickarls is attempting some seam stuff. I have git, a bottle of australian red wine and http://seamframework.org/Seam3/Contribute , anything else?
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[21:23:17] <lazarotti> rmartinelli: hey ricardo, my internet crashed. Did you see my comment in the case?
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[21:23:46] <rmartinelli> lazarotti: Yes, thanks for the help
[21:23:54] <lazarotti> rmartinelli: yaw
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[21:47:40] <gastaldi> Yo
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[21:50:50] <jose_freitas> yo
[21:55:24] 
[21:55:39] 
[21:55:42] <gastaldi> yooo
[21:55:58] <nickarls> got your bling-bling around your neck?
[21:56:32] <gastaldi> lol of course
[21:56:40] <gastaldi> bro
[21:57:07] * nickarls ran out of wine before he could get git flow installed on his windows box
[21:57:54] <gastaldi> fo' shizzle my nizzle
[21:58:28] <jose_freitas> hahaha
[21:58:31] <gastaldi> If anyone could help me: http://community.jboss.org/thread/170520
[21:58:48] <gastaldi> I am being beaten up by that
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[22:01:20] <lightguard_jp> I have not looked much into distributed tx
[22:02:06] <lightguard_jp> gastaldi: If you're EAP, don't you have a contact you can talk to?
[22:02:20] *** jamezp_afk is now known as jamezp
[22:02:24] <gastaldi> I tried that, but no luck
[22:02:59] 
[22:03:05] <gastaldi> to make it work
[22:06:07] <gastaldi> I already made it work once, but now I think I am missing something
[22:06:22] <gastaldi> :P
[22:06:44] <clerum> whats the best way to redirect to home.xhtml if you got to login.xhtml and you are already loggedin
[22:06:48] <clerum> pageaction?
[22:20:17] <jbossbot> git [catch] push arquillian_cr1_upgrade bb120c7.. LightGuard Trying to get Catch to run on OWB
[22:20:17] <jbossbot> git [catch] push arquillian_cr1_upgrade URL: http://github.com/seam/catch/compare/1d99c5d...bb120c7
[22:20:31] <lincolnthree> clerum: use a prettyfaces action
[22:20:40] <lincolnthree> or s:pageAction
[22:20:40] <lincolnthree> yeah
[22:23:38] <clerum> k
[22:23:42] <clerum> thanks
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[23:58:59] <gastaldi> hey all
[23:59:11] <gastaldi> I managed to answer my own question @ http://community.jboss.org/message/619520#619520
[23:59:14] <gastaldi> :)
[23:59:33] <gastaldi> Works like a charm !





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