[00:02:28] <johnament> didn't they do that with weld?
[00:06:35] <bleathem> don't remember
[00:07:17] <johnament> i could swear weld 1.0 was done like a month before gf v3 final, but they weren't allowed to say it.
[00:07:35] <johnament> it would have had to be, in order for sun to finish integration and testing.
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[00:07:59] <bleathem> right, cuz they obviously did a lot of testing ... :P
[00:09:56] <johnament> load test is optional
[00:10:02] <johnament> actually
[00:10:15] <johnament> my company's website is running on gf v3, primarily over weld.
[00:10:34] <bleathem> ours too
[00:10:35] <johnament> we have auto jobs that restart it every 6 hrs :-)
[00:10:44] <bleathem> With some Seam Faces alpha in there!
[00:10:59] <johnament> you know.
[00:11:02] <bleathem> Ours takes a couple of days before a restart is required
[00:11:18] <johnament> we actively have 1500 concurrent sessions
[00:11:31] <johnament> i think 6 hours is too often, but w/e. the admins issue.
[00:11:33] <bleathem> My boss is an AS/400 guy, and he shakes his head at the stability of "my" systems
[00:11:48] <bleathem> that's a lot of sessions
[00:11:51] <bleathem> where do you work?
[00:11:55] <bleathem> or can you say...
[00:11:56] <johnament> secret.
[00:12:01] <johnament> no.
[00:12:04] <johnament> i should out it at some point.
[00:12:21] <johnament> i was waiting for someone in management to become a jboss guy.
[00:12:28] <johnament> but the new guy that just came in loves jboss.
[00:12:43] <johnament> so i wanna make sure they know first before i list my company. it's a surprise.
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[01:01:22] <johnament> I need someone to read the Seam JMS docs and tell me if they actually make sense or not.
[01:05:14] <johnament> 1 issue left before beta1.
[01:05:18] <daniel_hinojosa> let me at em
[01:05:21] <daniel_hinojosa> let at em
[01:05:25] <daniel_hinojosa> let me at em
[01:05:26] <daniel_hinojosa> ha
[01:05:38] <daniel_hinojosa> got link? johnament
[01:05:53] <johnament> i'm pushing it now,
[01:06:04] <jbossbot> git [jms] push master 7eee7c5.. John Ament SEAMJMS-20 Finished up support for the MessageManager API.  Minor documentation clean up.
[01:06:06] <jbossbot> jira [SEAMJMS-20] MessageManager API [Pull Request Sent (Unresolved) Feature Request, Major, John Ament] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMJMS-20
[01:06:06] <jbossbot> git [jms] push master b37e31c.. John Ament Just a minor change in verbiage.
[01:06:06] <jbossbot> git [jms] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/jms/compare/7d99c8e...b37e31c
[01:06:19] <johnament> so once it builds in CI, then I'll have a link.
[01:07:29] <daniel_hinojosa> sounds good
[01:07:44] <daniel_hinojosa> girlfriend may hijack me to go to costco, but I will read it there too
[01:07:48] <daniel_hinojosa> ha
[01:07:54] <johnament> costco?!
[01:07:56] <johnament> haha
[01:08:17] <johnament> i'm in no rush. i just want to make sure it sounds right as I've been staring at it for so long I can't tell what's real and what's imaginary
[01:08:27] <johnament> Martin was looking at it already, but older drafts
[01:08:50] <johnament> I rewrote the entire infrastructure 2 weekends ago to create a type safe messaging API
[01:10:39] <jbossbot> git [parent] push master 2816bb8.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare release 10
[01:10:39] <jbossbot> git [parent] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/parent/compare/5e4982e...2816bb8
[01:10:50] <jbossbot> git [parent] push master 4494fab.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare for next development iteration
[01:10:50] <jbossbot> git [parent] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/parent/compare/2816bb8...4494fab
[01:12:04] <daniel_hinojosa> I'm kind of a nit-picker when it comes to documentation.  mojavelinux can vouch on that.
[01:14:12] <sbryzak> lincolnthree: ping
[01:15:43] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master b39dbd6.. Shane Bryzak Merge remote branch 'origin/master'
[01:15:43] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master 0894c0d.. Shane Bryzak update versions for release
[01:15:43] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/dist/compare/f814cac...0894c0d
[01:17:05] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master 1ae6e0b.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare release 3.0.0.Final
[01:17:05] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/dist/compare/0894c0d...1ae6e0b
[01:17:20] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master 6f37ffb.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare for next development iteration
[01:17:20] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/dist/compare/1ae6e0b...6f37ffb
[01:18:12] <johnament> daniel_hinojosa: i as well.  but like most writers, I can't possibly attempt to review my own
[01:18:30] <johnament> :-O 3.0.0.Final!
[01:20:12] <daniel_hinojosa> Oh my writing is a disaster
[01:20:29] <daniel_hinojosa> if it wasn't for reviewers or editors watch out
[01:21:01] <johnament> ugh. hudson still says latest is from wednesday.
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[01:21:54] <daniel_hinojosa> weird
[01:22:25] <johnament> I'll give it two more minutes.  it's not an incredibly long build, but i know that they have it setup to pull in a fresh AS 6 instance.
[01:23:45] <daniel_hinojosa> are you johnament on twitter?
[01:24:06] <johnament> daniel_hinojosa: yes
[01:24:09] <daniel_hinojosa> Looks as so.  brianlethem is there
[01:24:16] <daniel_hinojosa> ok, I am going to follow you
[01:24:23] <daniel_hinojosa> you can DM me when it's there.
[01:24:29] <johnament> ok, will do.
[01:24:31] <johnament> thanks :-)
[01:24:39] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master 777f283.. Shane Bryzak update seam-bom version
[01:24:39] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master 22386a7.. Shane Bryzak Merge branch 'master' of github.com:seam/solder
[01:24:39] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/solder/compare/892443e...22386a7
[01:24:43] <johnament> i appreciate it
[01:24:59] <daniel_hinojosa> then I will light a pipe and put on my robe and read.
[01:29:13] <johnament> haha
[01:30:16] <johnament> i so loathe the programmers i work with.  one comes up to me the other day and says that we need to stop programming object oriented and doing everything in C.
[01:30:24] <johnament> and he's the modern thinker.
[01:30:54] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master 7dd0e70.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare release 3.0.0.Final
[01:30:55] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/solder/compare/22386a7...7dd0e70
[01:31:08] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master d7dbed7.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare for next development iteration
[01:31:09] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/solder/compare/7dd0e70...d7dbed7
[01:35:56] <daniel_hinojosa> haha, johnament, he probably got wind of the carnegie mellon thing that they are abolishing OOP
[01:36:37] <daniel_hinojosa> but I think they were referring to using FP
[01:42:15] <johnament> no.. he's a python programmer
[01:42:19] <johnament> he doesn't know any better
[01:45:06] <johnament> geez what is it, does the polling not run on the weekends?
[01:50:11] <daniel_hinojosa> python to C?
[01:50:43] <daniel_hinojosa> wow.  might as well demand a car that you start with a crank.
[01:50:55] <daniel_hinojosa> johnament ^
[02:00:17] <jbossbot> git [parent] push master 5fb66a7.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare release 10
[02:00:18] <jbossbot> git [parent] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/parent/compare/4494fab...5fb66a7
[02:00:27] <jbossbot> git [parent] push master b5bfcf5.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare for next development iteration
[02:00:27] <jbossbot> git [parent] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/parent/compare/5fb66a7...b5bfcf5
[02:00:34] <johnament> no, he wasn't proposing that HE write in C.
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[04:51:17] <gastaldi> hey all
[04:52:13] <gastaldi> Just to refresh, when will the seam reporting module structure be created ?
[04:54:07] <gastaldi> i have some design ideas and would like to skate
[04:54:10] <gastaldi> share
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[04:55:47] <gastaldi> ok, gonna create a poc and then I call u guys later
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[05:19:23] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master 34b4281.. Dan Allen logging clarifications
[05:19:23] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/solder/compare/d7dbed7...34b4281
[05:19:50] <mojavelinux> i'm feeling good about the solder logging docs
[05:20:01] <mojavelinux> i'll be interested to hear what people say
[05:20:11] <mojavelinux> now, time for sleep so i'm ready to tackle the week :)
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[05:30:50] <gastaldi> hey bleathem !
[05:31:00] <bleathem> hey!
[05:31:17] <gastaldi> Enough of Seam Faces issues ? :)
[05:32:05] <bleathem> never!
[05:32:11] <mojavelinux> guys, good news
[05:32:15] <mojavelinux> before I call it a night
[05:32:31] <mojavelinux> i'm going to be speaking at 33rd Degree in Poland next week, then JAX London the following week
[05:32:44] <bleathem> cool!
[05:32:48] <gastaldi> Great news Dan !
[05:32:49] <mojavelinux> both conferences i'll have talks about seam, but the big one is the full day training / tutorial at JAX London
[05:32:57] <mojavelinux> so I'm going to feature as many modules as I can
[05:33:02] <gastaldi> wow
[05:33:06] <bleathem> Full day training on Seam - I could use that!
[05:33:09] <mojavelinux> and I'll be sure to identify all your great work
[05:33:14] <gastaldi> Feature JCR if you please :)
[05:33:21] <mojavelinux> so this week, I'm going to be heads down working on the preparations
[05:33:26] <gastaldi> Excellent
[05:33:31] <bleathem> On a related note, can we blog about what's upcoming in the 3.0 Release?
[05:33:32] <mojavelinux> but I will *definitely* chime in and ask questions as I hit each module
[05:33:36] <mojavelinux> yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[05:33:38] <bleathem> I've got a @ViewConfig blog doen
[05:33:38] <mojavelinux> please do
[05:33:47] <bleathem> ok, I'll "release" it!
[05:33:51] <gastaldi> hehe
[05:33:56] <bleathem> thank goodness blogger doesn't use maven!
[05:33:59] <gastaldi> haha !
[05:34:09] <mojavelinux> yes, we need more writing, if you can swing it, plus it's good for your name, gets it out there
[05:34:12] 
[05:34:19] <mojavelinux> I may have mentioned this before
[05:34:36] <mojavelinux> but a great way to motivate you to blog is to see a blog entry that says how hard something is
[05:34:42] <mojavelinux> then you show how you might solve that problem with seam
[05:34:53] <mojavelinux> it saves you from having to think of a topic, and you are learning and answering at the same time
[05:34:56] <gastaldi> good suggestion
[05:34:59] <mojavelinux> it's really the best motivator
[05:35:14] <mojavelinux> I think we'll try to get a collection of "rebuttal" candidates going so that you can draw from it
[05:35:15] <bleathem> Nice - I'll use that for subsequent posts on portential @ViewConfig use cases
[05:35:27] <mojavelinux> yeah, and people love to complain about JSF, so there is lots of good material there
[05:35:34] <bleathem> lol!
[05:35:36] <gastaldi> lol
[05:35:37] <mojavelinux> plus, it gives you a chance to review your features, from a different light
[05:36:46] <mojavelinux> okay, I'll check in with you guys on the flip side, but keep it going strong!
[05:36:55] <gastaldi> k
[05:36:58] <bleathem> sleep a well earned sleep!
[05:42:40] <gastaldi> bleathem: Seam Faces does support JSF 1.2?
[05:42:55] <gastaldi> or JSF 2 only
[05:42:57] <gastaldi> ?
[05:44:43] <bleathem> i never tried it with 1.2
[05:44:48] <gastaldi> hum
[05:44:53] <bleathem> there are things that would definitely not work
[05:45:04] <bleathem> as the api changed a lot from 1.2 to 2.0
[05:45:15] <bleathem> and I don't know if it would fail outright
[05:45:29] <bleathem> somethings might work, but I'd have to try to find out
[05:45:55] <gastaldi> not an issue, just a question somebody might ask
[05:47:20] <gastaldi> anyone here in Europe ?
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[05:53:38] <gastaldi> mojavelinux: Will that conference be podcasted somehow ?
[05:54:04] <gastaldi> Too bad for people in South America :(
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[06:40:22] <daniel_hinojosa> bleathem: I still need to get with on some doc enhancements
[06:40:29] <daniel_hinojosa> from what I said last night
[06:40:46] <daniel_hinojosa> and I need to read the JMS stuff from gastaldi
[06:41:01] <daniel_hinojosa> just wanted to make sure I didn't leave anyone out. ;)
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[07:04:44] <bleathem> Anyone have a minute to proof read my blog post?
[07:04:57] <bleathem> http://blog.bleathem.ca/2011/03/view-configuration-with-seam-3-faces.html
[07:05:36] <daniel_hinojosa> opening...
[07:05:37] <bleathem> I tried to get my wife to read it, but she said it read like a text book of a course she is not interested in
[07:05:48] <bleathem> i took that as a complement :P
[07:06:13] <daniel_hinojosa> name it harry potter and the dependency injection of hagrid
[07:06:40] <bleathem> that's a much better title!
[07:06:54] <bleathem> that might even get my oldest to read it!
[07:07:13] <bleathem> I've proofread this one so many times I pretty much have it memorized
[07:07:23] <bleathem> makes it hard to spot the errors
[07:07:54] <daniel_hinojosa> so is your readership people unfamiliar with the javaee stack?
[07:08:10] <daniel_hinojosa> or those with familiartiy
[07:08:33] <daniel_hinojosa> just asking because I don't have any idea what <f:metadata> child tags  is
[07:08:56] <bleathem> I'm kind of aiming this at JSF developers
[07:09:01] <daniel_hinojosa> ok
[07:09:05] <bleathem> but not explicitly so
[07:09:40] <bleathem> I figure no one else would be reading about configuring JSF security with Seam 3 Faces
[07:10:02] <bleathem> Speaking of which, maybe I should have JSF in the title
[07:10:04] <daniel_hinojosa> oh I don't know, maybe some passer bys, nothing wrong with JSF people
[07:10:36] <daniel_hinojosa> "This marker annotation identifies this interfaces as containing view configuration annotated enums." should be "This marker annotation identifies THESE interfaces as containing view configuration annotated enums."
[07:10:59] <bleathem> nice
[07:11:03] <bleathem> good catch
[07:12:02] <daniel_hinojosa> "Annotations qualified with @SecureBindingType from Seam Security. The authorization methods themselves are invoked by Seam Security (see below)"...A short sentence on what it does would be good here
[07:12:11] <daniel_hinojosa> nevermind
[07:12:16] <daniel_hinojosa> you have see below
[07:12:19] <daniel_hinojosa> scratch that then
[07:15:18] <bleathem> daniel_hinojosa when I write my book, I'll hire you as the editor! =D
[07:16:01] <daniel_hinojosa> "Of course one still has to configure Seam Security perform the authentication" should be "Of course one still has to configure Seam Security to perform the authentication"
[07:17:47] <daniel_hinojosa> "In an upcoming blog series, I'll examine use cases, and propose how we can build further annotations into the view configuration to further centralize application configuration."  Two words (further) in the same sentence is considered bad grammatical form.
[07:17:56] <daniel_hinojosa> your call
[07:18:40] <daniel_hinojosa> so finally back to "The authorization methods themselves are invoked by Seam Security (see below)"
[07:19:43] 
[07:19:44] <bleathem> bad grammar! bad!
[07:19:47] <daniel_hinojosa> haha
[07:19:59] <daniel_hinojosa> my grammar is bad... I was telling gastaldi that
[07:20:08] <daniel_hinojosa> I offer more technical review and basic grammar
[07:20:14] <bleathem> Well, the are invoked by the @Secures @... annotations
[07:20:32] <bleathem> ^they are invoked
[07:20:37] <daniel_hinojosa> ah, well unless I was oblivious to it
[07:20:56] <bleathem> hmm, maybe I should add some words explaining that then
[07:21:17] <daniel_hinojosa> maybe mention that @Secures is a Seam Security annotation
[07:21:25] <daniel_hinojosa> so it ties in to that line item
[07:21:41] <daniel_hinojosa> and then you are golden.....great article
[07:23:20] <daniel_hinojosa> There are millions of better english editors than me when you write your book
[07:24:27] <daniel_hinojosa> Just call me for the technical and human understandability of your work, that's what I like ;)
[07:26:52] <bleathem> thanks man, I appreciate your reading this a lot!
[07:28:01] <bleathem> I think I'll wait until the morning to tweet about it
[07:28:15] <bleathem> I'll probably get more re-tweets if it doesn't come out over night
[07:28:40] <bleathem> Twitter strategy - what have I become!
[07:30:45] <daniel_hinojosa> ha
[07:31:02] <daniel_hinojosa> My tweets just get me in trouble no matter what time of day it is
[07:31:38] <bleathem> those are the fun ones!
[07:31:45] <daniel_hinojosa> .ca? canadian?
[07:32:08] <bleathem> my post is already in my google reader, not quite all the edits made it in
[07:32:16] <nickarls> moaning
[07:32:18] <bleathem> Canadian eh!
[07:32:38] <bleathem> nickarls: why the moan?
[07:32:49] <bleathem> or was that a typo for morning?
[07:32:51] <nickarls> DST-day and monday
[07:33:01] <bleathem> Good moaning to you then!
[07:33:47] <bleathem> The worst part of the americans having changed the DST dates, is ha;f my applicances have the wrong time for the shoulder periods
[07:34:12] <daniel_hinojosa> nickarls just found out is in britain
[07:34:18] <daniel_hinojosa> and they just changed
[07:34:26] <daniel_hinojosa> did canada change today too?
[07:34:36] <daniel_hinojosa> oh
[07:34:38] <bleathem> no, we do whatever you amreicans do
[07:35:00] <daniel_hinojosa> that's a bad idea sometimes
[07:35:05] <daniel_hinojosa> or most times
[07:35:07] * nickarls is in .fi and here the DST stuff is really not neede
[07:35:07] <bleathem> lol
[07:35:12] <nickarls> we just do it to tag along
[07:35:24] <bleathem> I like how some individual states opt out
[07:35:29] <bleathem> like Arizona
[07:35:29] <nickarls> the length of day varies so much, in two weeks the diff will be gone anyway.
[07:35:32] <daniel_hinojosa> indiana and arizona
[07:35:40] <daniel_hinojosa> yeah
[07:35:45] <daniel_hinojosa> it was almost useless
[07:35:50] <daniel_hinojosa> but it made me money
[07:35:53] <bleathem> lol
[07:35:54] <nickarls> china has only one TZ
[07:35:59] <daniel_hinojosa> getting all the JDKs upgraded
[07:36:00] <bleathem> did create a lot of work
[07:36:17] <daniel_hinojosa> and the downloading and installing the debian and redhat TZ packs for servers
[07:36:24] <daniel_hinojosa> and something always going wrong
[07:36:25] <nickarls> you might have to change the clock 5h when crossing the border there
[07:36:43] <bleathem> we should all follow chinas lead, and just use UTC
[07:36:50] <bleathem> not that that is what china does
[07:37:00] <bleathem> but, well, you know what I mean
[07:37:07] <daniel_hinojosa> hell we americans use imperial measurements
[07:37:10] <bleathem> lets start a trend, right here, right now!
[07:37:37] <daniel_hinojosa> I use metric at our home improvement stores just to fk with them
[07:37:40] <bleathem> they just started teaching imperial measurements in elementary school in canada again
[07:38:01] <bleathem> must have been a 30 or 40 year run, where they thought we would all switch to metric
[07:38:01] <daniel_hinojosa> and then tell them holmes and homes uses metric
[07:38:03] <nickarls> SI-system FTW
[07:38:08] <bleathem> but the construction industry never switched
[07:38:30] <daniel_hinojosa> absolutely
[07:38:35] <bleathem> so they started teaching it to the kids again
[07:38:44] <daniel_hinojosa> I am going to be presenting on joda-time at uberconf this year
[07:38:53] <daniel_hinojosa> so I will do my small part for SI
[07:38:58] <bleathem> anything on JSR-317?
[07:39:06] <nickarls> dH: what happended to the time JSR?
[07:39:08] <daniel_hinojosa> I think it was killed
[07:39:10] <nickarls> or was that it?
[07:39:16] <daniel_hinojosa> yeah
[07:39:20] <bleathem> wrong number
[07:39:25] <bleathem> whichever the joda time jsr is
[07:39:32] <daniel_hinojosa> haha
[07:39:36] <bleathem> no, it's alive
[07:39:37] <daniel_hinojosa> I think it died.
[07:39:40] <daniel_hinojosa> oh it is?
[07:39:41] <bleathem> jdk 8 i believe
[07:39:53] <daniel_hinojosa> ugh the world will end by then
[07:39:55] <bleathem> dan just tweeted about it today
[07:39:55] <nickarls> strangely enough for EE 7, two Oracle-lead JSR:s were resurrected from a 10-year coma
[07:40:06] <bleathem> which ones?
[07:40:17] <daniel_hinojosa> probably silently
[07:40:23] <bleathem> JSR -310 the joda time jsr
[07:41:18] <nickarls> 107 and 236
[07:41:25] <bleathem> Pure danger says 310 is in java 7
[07:41:27] <bleathem> http://tech.puredanger.com/java7/
[07:41:35] <bleathem> nice
[07:42:09] <daniel_hinojosa> with a questionmark
[07:42:12] <bleathem> oh, that's old
[07:42:26] <Diablo-D3> scew java7
[07:42:31] <Diablo-D3> java7 isnt java
[07:42:43] <Diablo-D3> it was not produced with the community process
[07:42:56] <Diablo-D3> its a oracle sw patent attack
[07:42:58] <Diablo-D3> its not open source
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[07:43:08] <daniel_hinojosa> yeah
[07:43:30] <nickarls> drop the backward compatibility and clean up 90% of the I/O code ;-)
[07:43:47] <Diablo-D3> jboss code should refuse to work on java7
[07:44:28] <daniel_hinojosa> I just care about the VM, I mostly am moving to Scala
[07:44:33] <daniel_hinojosa> and moving all my java code to it
[07:44:48] <Diablo-D3> feh, maybe if scala didnt suck, that'd be a viable alternative
[07:44:56] <daniel_hinojosa> just give us reified types and I will be golden
[07:45:22] <daniel_hinojosa> maybe there will be a language called java-classic
[07:45:28] <daniel_hinojosa> built on the VM
[07:45:30] <PeteRoyle> I use TorqueBox to keep a foot firmly in the Rbuy camp
[07:45:48] <PeteRoyle> *ruby
[07:45:50] <daniel_hinojosa> TorqueBox?
[07:46:22] <daniel_hinojosa> wow
[07:46:28] <daniel_hinojosa> I see torquebox
[07:46:42] <PeteRoyle> they've just implemented CDI integration
[07:47:18] <daniel_hinojosa> ruby doesn't have annotations though, if I remember right
[07:47:23] <daniel_hinojosa> so how does that work?
[07:47:45] * PeteRoyle you create CDI graph in Java then
[07:48:04] <PeteRoyle> @thing = inject(com.my.CDIClss)
[07:48:07] <PeteRoyle> or something
[07:48:32] <PeteRoyle> not very powerful at the ruby injection point, but you can utilise all the power behind the scenes
[07:49:13] <daniel_hinojosa> oh
[07:49:13] <daniel_hinojosa> ok
[07:49:15] <Diablo-D3> why the fuck would anyone use a non-jvm language on the jvm anyhow
[07:49:17] <Diablo-D3> it sounds like a giant hack
[07:49:51] <daniel_hinojosa> ruby is a clean language.  plus it's good to bring mulitple langs to the camp
[07:50:09] <Diablo-D3> no it isnt
[07:50:19] <Diablo-D3> jruby is NOT a native jvm language
[07:50:28] <Diablo-D3> so you cant easily intergrate jruby code into existing projects
[07:50:34] <Diablo-D3> so all it does is divide foss instead of unite it
[07:50:41] <PeteRoyle> to tackle that in parts, do you agree that people would want to use languages other than Java at all?
[07:50:54] <nickarls> that's the evolution of foss
[07:51:03] <daniel_hinojosa> yep
[07:51:15] <nickarls> mutation and survival of the fittest
[07:51:36] <PeteRoyle> Diablo-D3?
[07:51:37] <nickarls> (or the one with the richest business friends)
[07:51:38] <daniel_hinojosa> and sometimes that fittest requires different langs for different reasons
[07:51:57] <Diablo-D3> PeteRoyle: there doesnt seem to be a use for another language thats inferior to the best language ever
[07:51:58] <daniel_hinojosa> nickarls that can backfire though
[07:52:02] <nickarls> I don't mind more langs to the platform as long as it doesn't complicate the whole platform too much
[07:52:30] <PeteRoyle> :) then I won't continue with part two
[07:52:38] <nickarls> daniel: you mean 40 different logger abstractions? ;-)
[07:52:48] <PeteRoyle> lol
[07:52:53] <Diablo-D3> heh
[07:52:53] <daniel_hinojosa> well thing is the effects of JRuby can move over to CRuby
[07:52:58] <Diablo-D3> theres only ONE actual logger abstraction
[07:53:00] <daniel_hinojosa> ha
[07:53:05] <Diablo-D3> slf4j
[07:53:24] <nickarls> many foss projects split due to political / person-chemical reasons too
[07:53:32] <daniel_hinojosa> sure
[07:53:35] <nickarls> diablo: jboss-logging can abstract that, too ;-)
[07:53:54] <daniel_hinojosa> seam 2 had it's own logging
[07:54:00] <Diablo-D3> no, isnt jboss logging based on that thing slf4j replaced?
[07:54:06] <nickarls> logback?
[07:54:15] <Diablo-D3> no, logback is an impl of slf4j
[07:54:22] <PeteRoyle> anyhoo JRuby replaces the native ruby runtime with a much more mature runtime environment (the JVM)
[07:54:49] <Diablo-D3> PeteRoyle: except
[07:54:59] <Diablo-D3> its not built on native jvmisms
[07:55:00] <PeteRoyle> and TorqueBox does the same for Rails apps, except it adds a bunch of Java EE services as well
[07:55:05] <Diablo-D3> so its completely inaccessable to java coders
[07:55:24] <daniel_hinojosa> no they get converted to java byte code
[07:55:34] <Diablo-D3> so? we code in java, not byte code
[07:55:38] <PeteRoyle> Diablo-D3: not true, you've obviously never tried it?
[07:55:46] <Diablo-D3> I cant stand ruby
[07:55:50] <Diablo-D3> its an insane language
[07:55:57] <Diablo-D3> its worse than python in some aspects
[07:55:58] <daniel_hinojosa> I code in java, groovy, scala, ruby, python
[07:56:18] <PeteRoyle> well I disagree, but it's a matter of preference
[07:56:27] <PeteRoyle> For me, Ruby tought me how to program better in Java
[07:56:33] <Diablo-D3> I shouldnt have to fight with 9 different languages to get a simple task done
[07:56:35] <daniel_hinojosa> strange how that works
[07:56:37] <stuartdouglas> The reason why ruby does not go to native jvmisms (as you call it), is because native jvmisms do not handle dynamic languages well
[07:56:57] <Diablo-D3> stuartdouglas: not true
[07:57:04] <Diablo-D3> theres at least two dynamoc languages that do it fine
[07:57:06] <Diablo-D3> scala is one
[07:57:09] <PeteRoyle> making better use of closures, even though they look ugly in Jva, which is why no-one uses them as much in Java, which is why I never learned how to use them effectively until I started using ruby
[07:57:14] <daniel_hinojosa> scala isn't dynamic
[07:57:21] <Diablo-D3> I thought it was?
[07:57:21] <stuartdouglas> Is scala really dynamic?
[07:57:30] <daniel_hinojosa> noooo.
[07:57:34] <stuartdouglas> It's strongly typed
[07:57:39] <daniel_hinojosa> and static
[07:57:55] <Diablo-D3> so whats the point of scala then?
[07:58:07] <daniel_hinojosa> functional languages
[07:58:14] <daniel_hinojosa> so functions are first class citizens
[07:58:19] <daniel_hinojosa> a better collection library
[07:58:27] <daniel_hinojosa> higher order functions
[07:59:14] <Diablo-D3> but its not java
[07:59:24] <stuartdouglas> The issue is that the JVM only has 4 native types of method invocations invokestatic, invokevirtual, invokespecial and invokeinterface
[07:59:56] <daniel_hinojosa> yes, and that's why I am in favor of JVM improvements over Java improvement
[08:00:10] <stuartdouglas> if you need to do anything outside of this (stuff like ruby's missing method) you have to move away from straight jvmisms to implementit
[08:00:11] <daniel_hinojosa> I am with Diablo-D3 in this regard: Leave java alone
[08:00:19] <daniel_hinojosa> the JVM is where it is at
[08:00:30] <daniel_hinojosa> people love Java for what it is and it is a terrific language still
[08:01:08] <daniel_hinojosa> stuartdouglas: how does groovy do it underneath then?
[08:01:15] <daniel_hinojosa> they have a missing method too
[08:02:10] <nickarls> you gotta love java when you see some C-pointers dereferenced to the 5-th level
[08:03:05] <stuartdouglas> actually missing method is not really the best example
[08:03:33] <daniel_hinojosa> nickarls: ha, I never knew, that's in the VM?
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[08:24:03] <Diablo-D3> also
[08:24:12] <Diablo-D3> didnt sun already deal with the crap missing?
[08:24:17] <Diablo-D3> theres a jsr that was passed for it
[08:26:03] <Diablo-D3> JSR 292: Support For Really Broken Languages on the Java Platform
[08:26:27] <Diablo-D3> it adds invokedynamic
[08:26:30] <Diablo-D3> thus a 5th method
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[08:27:02] <stuartdouglas> yea, but that is not coming till java 7 / 8
[08:27:02] <kuuyee> can't login https://translate.jboss.org/
[08:27:06] <stuartdouglas> not sure which
[08:27:08] <kuuyee> why?
[08:27:38] <Diablo-D3> stuartdouglas: its already in 7
[08:27:43] <Diablo-D3> infact, its already in the openjdk tree
[08:27:47] <Diablo-D3> so anyone can just go steal it
[08:28:04] <Diablo-D3> openjdk 6 is just a branch of 7
[08:28:17] <Diablo-D3> so its probably possible to backport it with little effort
[08:28:50] <Diablo-D3> [01:56:13] <daniel_hinojosa> I code in java, groovy, scala, ruby, python
[08:28:56] <Diablo-D3> btw, why groovy? its just more spring junk
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[08:30:34] <Diablo-D3> and jython is dead
[08:30:44] <Diablo-D3> they keep releasing versions that only do 2.5
[08:31:00] <Diablo-D3> and due to the fact python is a trash language, they keep breaking compatibility every other version
[08:31:07] <Diablo-D3> so 2.5 isnt going to run anything new
[08:31:18] <Diablo-D3> and you're double fucked if you use anything in python that uses python's C bridge
[08:31:21] <Diablo-D3> ie, numpy etc
[08:32:00] <Diablo-D3> so if groovy is fail, jpython is fail, jruby is fail
[08:32:02] <Diablo-D3> whats left?
[08:32:04] <Diablo-D3> scala?
[08:36:44] <PeteRoyle> Diablo-D3: your else block will never execute
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[08:37:22] <Diablo-D3> ?
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[08:37:28] <PeteRoyle> (bah, I mean your if block)
[08:37:31] <PeteRoyle> PeteRoyle is fail
[08:37:44] <Diablo-D3> now Im even more confused
[08:37:57] <PeteRoyle> nm
[08:54:10] <Diablo-D3> has scala gotten rid of their .net support yet?
[08:54:21] <Diablo-D3> I wont support products that support sw patents
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[09:09:51] <Diablo-D3> wait, wtf?
[09:10:19] <Diablo-D3> richfaces uses prototype, jquery AND scriptaculous
[09:10:37] <Diablo-D3> fail
[09:13:12] <sbryzak> oskutka: ping
[09:13:20] <oskutka> sbryzak: pong
[09:13:27] <sbryzak> hey ondra
[09:13:31] <Diablo-D3> wait, apparently 4.x doesnt
[09:13:34] <oskutka> Hi Shane!
[09:13:34] <sbryzak> i'm having trouble with pushing the release to staging
[09:13:55] <sbryzak> since we have a modular structure, each release i do goes to a separate temp repository
[09:14:12] <sbryzak> i don't know if there's any way to use the same temp repository for all the modules
[09:14:25] <sbryzak> at least i couldn't find any useful information on this when i googled it
[09:15:02] <oskutka> sbryzak: I guess I cannot help you with this. I've never done that. I just used staged artifacts.
[09:15:32] <sbryzak> that's the trouble, once i hit a module that depends on another module, it won't release
[09:15:35] <oskutka> sbryzak: But if you have the final artifacts, you could send them via email and we'll check them.
[09:16:03] <oskutka> sbryzak: I see.
[09:16:03] <kuuyee> sbryzak: i can't login https://translate.jboss.org, what's wrong?
[09:16:05] <sbryzak> i can't even generate the final artifacts, unless i hack them
[09:16:33] <sbryzak> kuuyee: i'm not sure sorry, i don't maintain that site
[09:17:09] <kuuyee> sbryzak: oh! that's all right.
[09:18:03] <sbryzak> oskutka: i'm not sure how we should proceed with this
[09:18:35] <oskutka> sbryzak: Why can't you mvn install to local repo?
[09:18:48] <sbryzak> i can, but it would be a snapshot
[09:19:06] <oskutka> oh
[09:19:18] <sbryzak> the maven release plugin updates the version numbers
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[09:20:20] <oskutka> I see. So how about deploying to some non-public repo?
[09:20:57] <sbryzak> to do that, i'd have to update every pom for every module
[09:21:42] <oskutka> sbryzak: So what do you suggest?
[09:21:52] <sbryzak> mojavelinux: ping
[09:22:09] <sbryzak> we'll see if dan has any ideas :)
[09:22:28] <sbryzak> otherwise i could ask pete when he comes online
[09:22:51] <oskutka> sbryzak: Still we can do another CR and after the testing is done, simply promote it to Final.
[09:23:23] <sbryzak> that's an option i suppose
[09:24:00] <oskutka> sbryzak: Or ask some real maven gurus, like Paul Gier or John Casey.
[09:24:31] <sbryzak> i'll see what pete says first, he should be online in a couple of hours
[09:24:41] <oskutka> sbryzak: Sure.
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[09:26:24] <marekn> oskutka: https://repository.jboss.org/nexus/content/groups/staging/
[09:30:19] <marekn> sbryzak: hey shane, I have experiences, that if you close the temp repo, you should see the deployed artifacts at URL above ^^^, that should solve your problem, WDYT?
[09:32:02] <sbryzak> marekn: i thought it went into a temporary staging repo
[09:32:12] <sbryzak> ah, wait a sec
[09:32:37] <sbryzak> when we do the seam release, we run mvn release:perform nexus:staging-close
[09:32:42] <sbryzak> that closes the repository automatically
[09:32:55] <marekn> sbryzak: cool
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[09:33:27] <sbryzak> i could try releasing the parent
[09:33:36] <sbryzak> and see if it's available at that url
[09:35:29] <marekn> sbryzak: yup, try it. when I released seam2, I have got settings-stagging.xml for maven with that URL and it always works ;-).
[09:40:21] <jbossbot> git [parent] push master 4124bec.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare release 10
[09:40:21] <jbossbot> git [parent] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/parent/compare/b5bfcf5...4124bec
[09:40:53] <jbossbot> git [parent] push master d1dfd8f.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] rollback the release of 10
[09:40:53] <jbossbot> git [parent] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/parent/compare/4124bec...d1dfd8f
[09:41:43] <mgencur> sbryzak: ping
[09:41:45] <jbossbot> git [parent] push master 306ca81.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare release 10
[09:41:45] <jbossbot> git [parent] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/parent/compare/d1dfd8f...306ca81
[09:41:48] <sbryzak> mgencur: pong
[09:41:52] <jbossbot> git [parent] push master 6ae4102.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare for next development iteration
[09:41:53] <jbossbot> git [parent] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/parent/compare/306ca81...6ae4102
[09:42:09] <mgencur> sbryzak: hi Shane, have you tried the openid-rp example with glassfish when you added the profile there?
[09:42:43] <sbryzak> no.. don't tell me it's missing other dependencies?
[09:43:27] <mgencur> sbryzak: no, it deploys successfully, but I cannot use any of the profiders to log in, I'm getting an exception, I will pastebin it
[09:43:58] <mgencur> sbryzak: http://pastebin.com/arZP4Ujh
[09:45:51] <sbryzak> marekn: you're right, it seems to be deploying there: https://repository.jboss.org/nexus/content/groups/staging/org/jboss/seam/seam-parent/10/
[09:46:25] <sbryzak> mgencur: is that with an updated weld?
[09:46:49] <mgencur> sbryzak: updated last Thursday
[09:47:35] <sbryzak> i'm afraid i have no idea.. it could possible be a weld bug
[09:48:39] <mgencur> sbryzak: ok, ....I've just tried it with JBossAS 6 Final and it works fine (.. you asked me for that in the email)
[09:53:41] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master 0682d17.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare release 3.0.0.Final
[09:53:41] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/dist/compare/6f37ffb...0682d17
[09:53:51] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master b3c5025.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare for next development iteration
[09:53:51] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/dist/compare/0682d17...b3c5025
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[10:05:40] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master 3cd0298.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare release 3.0.0.Final
[10:05:40] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master 77101a7.. Shane Bryzak Merge branch 'master' of github.com:seam/solder
[10:05:40] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master b2f0315.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] rollback the release of 3.0.0.Final
[10:05:40] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/solder/compare/34b4281...b2f0315
[10:06:57] <marekn> sbryzak: cool! good luck with the rest :-)
[10:07:05] <sbryzak> marekn: thanks :)
[10:07:58] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master f4f4054.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare release 3.0.0.Final
[10:07:58] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/solder/compare/b2f0315...f4f4054
[10:08:10] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master 3052039.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare for next development iteration
[10:08:11] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/solder/compare/f4f4054...3052039
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[10:23:36] <jbossbot> git [persistence] push master 26638b9.. Shane Bryzak update seam-bom version
[10:23:37] <jbossbot> git [persistence] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/persistence/compare/6e42005...26638b9
[10:27:33] <jbossbot> git [config] push master 0d52cf1.. Shane Bryzak update seam-bom version
[10:27:33] <jbossbot> git [config] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/config/compare/80e271d...0d52cf1
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[10:36:32] <jbossbot> git [config] push master a15262b.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare release 3.0.0.Final
[10:36:32] <jbossbot> git [config] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/config/compare/0d52cf1...a15262b
[10:36:42] <jbossbot> git [config] push master 4d1ead5.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare for next development iteration
[10:36:42] <jbossbot> git [config] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/config/compare/a15262b...4d1ead5
[11:02:59] <jbossbot> git [persistence] push master 97f57ba.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare release 3.0.0.Final
[11:02:59] <jbossbot> git [persistence] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/persistence/compare/26638b9...97f57ba
[11:03:13] <jbossbot> git [persistence] push master 5222317.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare for next development iteration
[11:03:14] <jbossbot> git [persistence] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/persistence/compare/97f57ba...5222317
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[11:26:01] <jbossbot> git [catch] push master d8d51e9.. Shane Bryzak update seam-bom version, fix circular dependency for example
[11:26:01] <jbossbot> git [catch] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/catch/compare/cd483b0...d8d51e9
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[11:30:30] <jbossbot> git [catch] push master 79e15f5.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare release 3.0.0.Final
[11:30:31] <jbossbot> git [catch] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/catch/compare/d8d51e9...79e15f5
[11:30:42] <jbossbot> git [catch] push master 4d71e77.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare for next development iteration
[11:30:42] <jbossbot> git [catch] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/catch/compare/79e15f5...4d71e77
[11:41:19] <jbossbot> git [servlet] push master b878605.. Shane Bryzak update seam-bom version
[11:41:20] <jbossbot> git [servlet] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/servlet/compare/f30c07d...b878605
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[11:45:45] <jbossbot> git [servlet] push master 44f7dd3.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare release 3.0.0.Final
[11:45:45] <jbossbot> git [servlet] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/servlet/compare/b878605...44f7dd3
[11:45:58] <jbossbot> git [servlet] push master 1f2b98c.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare for next development iteration
[11:45:58] <jbossbot> git [servlet] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/servlet/compare/44f7dd3...1f2b98c
[11:51:02] <nickarls> Shane is hell-bent on releasing Seam 3, it appears
[11:52:11] <sbryzak> try and stop me
[11:54:51] <jbossbot> git [international] push master 5186a9c.. Shane Bryzak update seam-bom version
[11:54:51] <jbossbot> git [international] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/international/compare/491bdb8...5186a9c
[11:55:28] <sbryzak> i will say this though, it's like watching paint dry
[11:59:56] * Diablo-D3 spies an article named "optimizing lisp some more"
[11:59:59] <Diablo-D3> YYEEARGGGHh
[12:00:07] <Diablo-D3> http://nklein.com/2009/06/optimizing-lisp-some-more/
[12:00:27] <jbossbot> git [international] push master 9c0bb16.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare release 3.0.0.Final
[12:00:27] <jbossbot> git [international] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/international/compare/5186a9c...9c0bb16
[12:00:38] <jbossbot> git [international] push master b39b7eb.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare for next development iteration
[12:00:39] <jbossbot> git [international] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/international/compare/9c0bb16...b39b7eb
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[12:16:05] <jbossbot> git [faces] push master 30fd321.. Shane Bryzak update seam-bom version
[12:16:06] <jbossbot> git [faces] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/faces/compare/fa13fc2...30fd321
[12:17:45] <jbossbot> git [security] push master 1399299.. Shane Bryzak update seam-bom version
[12:17:45] <jbossbot> git [security] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/security/compare/8a051b0...1399299
[12:21:35] <jbossbot> git [security] push master 67e340c.. Shane Bryzak update seam-faces version to avoid circular dependency
[12:21:36] <jbossbot> git [security] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/security/compare/1399299...67e340c
[12:23:43] <jbossbot> git [security] push master dae44cb.. Shane Bryzak update seam-faces version to avoid circular dependency
[12:23:44] <jbossbot> git [security] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/security/compare/67e340c...dae44cb
[12:28:22] <jbossbot> git [security] push master 52ede41.. Shane Bryzak set seam-faces version in the parent
[12:28:22] <jbossbot> git [security] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/security/compare/dae44cb...52ede41
[12:30:07] <jbossbot> git [security] push master cf870cd.. Shane Bryzak fix seam-persistence version
[12:30:07] <jbossbot> git [security] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/security/compare/52ede41...cf870cd
[12:31:12] <jbossbot> git [security] push master 4410823.. Shane Bryzak oops
[12:31:12] <jbossbot> git [security] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/security/compare/cf870cd...4410823
[12:37:55] <aslak> nickarls, do you know where the old weld archetypes has moved?
[12:39:13] <aslak> nickarls, aa, they got split it seems, no longer the same trunk.. http://anonsvn.jboss.org/repos/weld/archetypes/
[12:39:52] <jbossbot> git [security] push master b4708c0.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare release 3.0.0.Final
[12:39:53] <jbossbot> git [security] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/security/compare/4410823...b4708c0
[12:40:01] <jbossbot> git [security] push master daca6b8.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare for next development iteration
[12:40:01] <jbossbot> git [security] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/security/compare/b4708c0...daca6b8
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[13:02:14] <jbossbot> git [faces] push master 2a7fca6.. Shane Bryzak fix security version
[13:02:15] <jbossbot> git [faces] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/faces/compare/30fd321...2a7fca6
[13:07:20] <jbossbot> git [faces] push master 7186872.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare release 3.0.0.Final
[13:07:20] <jbossbot> git [faces] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/faces/compare/2a7fca6...7186872
[13:07:33] <jbossbot> git [faces] push master f761616.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare for next development iteration
[13:07:34] <jbossbot> git [faces] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/faces/compare/7186872...f761616
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[13:19:57] <jbossbot> git [rest] push master 54ed8f2.. Shane Bryzak update seam-bom
[13:19:57] <jbossbot> git [rest] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/rest/compare/f5370b4...54ed8f2
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[13:26:26] <aslak> marekn, do you know what happened to http://anonsvn.jboss.org/repos/seam/seam-gen ?
[13:27:16] <marekn> aslak: are you looking for seam-gen from Seam2?
[13:27:48] <aslak> marekn, i'm just looking at the Ohloh enlistments.. that one has been failing for the last 2 months, which stops all other from updating
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[13:28:09] <jbossbot> git [rest] push master 1a803f9.. Shane Bryzak minor
[13:28:09] <jbossbot> git [rest] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/rest/compare/54ed8f2...1a803f9
[13:28:22] <aslak> marekn, http://anonsvn.jboss.org/repos/seam/trunk has been failing for the last 6 days, moved / deleted?
[13:29:35] <marekn> aslak: hmm, I am not sure, but I guess that was removed when Seam 3 was developed in SVN and went to github,
[13:30:18] <marekn> aslak: I recall that "trunk" was tranformed into http://anonsvn.jboss.org/repos/seam/modules/
[13:30:41] <jbossbot> git [rest] push master 6d916fb.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare release 3.0.0.Final
[13:30:41] <jbossbot> git [rest] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/rest/compare/1a803f9...6d916fb
[13:30:52] <jbossbot> git [rest] push master c70bd48.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare for next development iteration
[13:30:52] <jbossbot> git [rest] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/rest/compare/6d916fb...c70bd48
[13:30:59] <marekn> aslak: but that is what you need to ask pmuir or mojavelinux
[13:31:19] <jbossbot> git [rest] push master cd0c732.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] rollback the release of 3.0.0.Final
[13:31:19] <jbossbot> git [rest] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/rest/compare/c70bd48...cd0c732
[13:32:41] <pmuir> it got removed
[13:32:42] <jbossbot> git [rest] push master 3335bdb.. Shane Bryzak minor
[13:32:43] <jbossbot> git [rest] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/rest/compare/cd0c732...3335bdb
[13:32:48] <pmuir> i guess it changed to forge...
[13:33:30] <aslak> pmuir, ok, so just remove the enlistment then, and update the seam/trunk one to seam/modules? or remove that as well since they are on github?
[13:33:37] <aslak> or is seam/modules seam 2 ?
[13:33:56] <marekn> aslak: no, it isn't
[13:34:21] <marekn> aslak: seam 2 lives in branches
[13:34:27] <aslak> marekn, ok
[13:34:54] <pmuir> remove the enlistment i think
[13:35:03] <aslak> for both ?
[13:35:20] <jbossbot> git [rest] push master fa3c59d.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare release 3.0.0.Final
[13:35:20] <jbossbot> git [rest] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/rest/compare/3335bdb...fa3c59d
[13:35:20] <pmuir> remove both
[13:35:23] <pmuir> they are on github
[13:35:56] <aslak> ok, done
[13:36:05] <aslak> seam/scheduling is now /seam/cron ?
[13:37:50] <jbossbot> git [rest] push master 759f33d.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] rollback the release of 3.0.0.Final
[13:37:50] <jbossbot> git [rest] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/rest/compare/fa3c59d...759f33d
[13:40:44] <jbossbot> git [rest] push master 671f035.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare release 3.0.0.Final
[13:40:44] <jbossbot> git [rest] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/rest/compare/759f33d...671f035
[13:40:55] <jbossbot> git [rest] push master 977027b.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare for next development iteration
[13:40:55] <jbossbot> git [rest] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/rest/compare/671f035...977027b
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[13:56:25] <jbossbot> git [remoting] push master e2195bd.. Shane Bryzak update seam-bom version
[13:56:25] <jbossbot> git [remoting] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/remoting/compare/b3c8d38...e2195bd
[14:02:15] <jbossbot> git [remoting] push master 0461f3c.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare release 3.0.0.Final
[14:02:16] <jbossbot> git [remoting] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/remoting/compare/e2195bd...0461f3c
[14:02:23] <jbossbot> git [remoting] push master 934db76.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare for next development iteration
[14:02:23] <jbossbot> git [remoting] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/remoting/compare/0461f3c...934db76
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[14:29:09] <bobmcw> the party is here?
[14:32:35] <sbryzak> it's always a party in this channel
[14:33:29] <jbossbot> git [validation] push master 2e043e6.. Shane Bryzak update seam-bom version
[14:33:29] <jbossbot> git [validation] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/validation/compare/4105ada...2e043e6
[14:33:41] <nickarls> there is a pete and hudson vs ales, nik and ken battle over at #weld-dev that's more fun, though
[14:34:27] * bobmcw pokes his head in
[14:34:40] <bobmcw> I've also got a user-style question lingering in #weld if anyone's got a moment
[14:35:43] <jbossbot> git [validation] push master 5529f0e.. Shane Bryzak minor
[14:35:43] <jbossbot> git [validation] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/validation/compare/2e043e6...5529f0e
[14:40:26] <jbossbot> git [validation] push master 7b0f8a5.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare release 3.0.0.Final
[14:40:26] <jbossbot> git [validation] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/validation/compare/5529f0e...7b0f8a5
[14:40:41] <jbossbot> git [validation] push master 677550b.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare for next development iteration
[14:40:41] <jbossbot> git [validation] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/validation/compare/7b0f8a5...677550b
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[14:51:29] <jbossbot> git [wicket] push master 8ee17a8.. Shane Bryzak update seam-bom version
[14:51:30] <jbossbot> git [wicket] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/wicket/compare/af06c0d...8ee17a8
[14:57:11] <jbossbot> git [wicket] push master ecb466b.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare release 3.0.0.Final
[14:57:11] <jbossbot> git [wicket] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/wicket/compare/8ee17a8...ecb466b
[14:57:24] <jbossbot> git [wicket] push master 96f9e6e.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare for next development iteration
[14:57:24] <jbossbot> git [wicket] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/wicket/compare/ecb466b...96f9e6e
[15:14:13] <jbossbot> git [examples] push master 8048f7e.. Shane Bryzak update seam-bom
[15:14:14] <jbossbot> git [examples] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/examples/compare/2a9767a...8048f7e
[15:15:20] <jbossbot> git [examples] push master 3f7d83e.. Shane Bryzak oops, fix version
[15:15:20] <jbossbot> git [examples] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/examples/compare/8048f7e...3f7d83e
[15:16:55] <jbossbot> git [examples] push master a15ff24.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare release 3.0.0.Final
[15:16:55] <jbossbot> git [examples] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/examples/compare/3f7d83e...a15ff24
[15:17:07] <jbossbot> git [examples] push master ccb14f0.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare for next development iteration
[15:17:08] <jbossbot> git [examples] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/examples/compare/a15ff24...ccb14f0
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[15:23:30] <sbryzak> oskutka: ping
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[15:29:55] <sbryzak> oskutka: all seam artifacts have been released to staging now
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[15:35:20] <oskutka> sbryzak: Great! So we'll start testing them!
[15:35:26] <oskutka> sbryzak: Thanks, Shane!
[15:35:32] <sbryzak> oskutka: thanks :)
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[16:10:25] <oskutka> sbryzak: Do you also have a zip distribution prepared?
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[16:12:28] <lightguard_jp> Wow, full channel!
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[16:39:45] <Diablo-D3> man
[16:39:52] <Diablo-D3> I think theres only one problem with faces
[16:40:13] <Diablo-D3> its purely view only
[16:41:11] <jose_freitas> ?
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[16:55:12] <Diablo-D3> jose_freitas: well like
[16:55:31] <Diablo-D3> I cant to <tag:DOTHISFUCKINGTHING value="#{kal el}"/>
[16:55:40] <Diablo-D3> s/to/do/
[16:55:53] <Diablo-D3> it has to be done as an action by the user
[17:00:23] *** bleathem is now known as bleathem_away
[17:03:08] <lightguard_jp> Diablo-D3: You can at a page level
[17:03:26] <lightguard_jp> Or create a phase listener and do it that way
[17:03:35] <lightguard_jp> Seam2 and PrettyFaces do that
[17:05:45] <Diablo-D3> lightguard_jp: well, the internet doesnt seem to know what Im asking for
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[18:04:11] <nickarls> what's the url to the staging repo?
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[18:36:54] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master d0ff443.. Aslak Knutsen SOLDER-96 update to Arquillian 1.0.0.Alpha5
[18:36:55] <jbossbot> jira [SOLDER-96] Upgrade Arquillian to 1.0.0.Alpha5 [Resolved (Done) Task, Major, Aslak Knutsen] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SOLDER-96
[18:36:55] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master f6c3d24.. Aslak Knutsen SOLDER-18 Add OpenWebBeans profile. OpenWebBeans does not support WebArchive deployments(ARQ-403).
[18:36:56] <jbossbot> jira [SOLDER-18] Add test profile for OpenWebBeans [Resolved (Done) Feature Request, Major, Aslak Knutsen] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SOLDER-18
[18:36:57] <jbossbot> jira [ARQ-403] OpenWebBeans container should support WebArchive deployments [Open (Unresolved) Feature Request, Minor, Unassigned] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/ARQ-403
[18:36:57] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master 0956f2e.. Dan Allen remove compat test references
[18:36:57] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master 0c1abf9.. mgencur at redhat dot com fix compilation of tests when running code-coverage
[18:36:57] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master 555c82f.. John Ament SOLDER-89 provided more documentation on AnnotationInspector.
[18:36:58] <jbossbot> jira [SOLDER-89] Document utilities provided by AnnotationInspector [Resolved (Done) Feature Request, Major, John Ament] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SOLDER-89
[18:36:58] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master 0c2d29a.. John Ament SOLDER-73 Cleaned up a collection of typos in the solder documentation.
[18:36:59] <jbossbot> jira [SOLDER-73] Misc documentation issues [Resolved (Done) Bug, Minor, John Ament] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SOLDER-73
[18:36:59] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master 3c87755.. John Ament SOLDER-73 Misc documentation clean ups.
[18:36:59] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master e1498fc.. Dan Allen cleanups...
[18:37:00] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master c7a557f.. Dan Allen SOLDER-61 documentation for JBoss Logging
[18:37:00] <jbossbot> jira [SOLDER-61] Write documentation for JBoss Logging [Resolved (Done) Feature Request, Major, Dan Allen] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SOLDER-61
[18:37:01] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master a110444.. Dan Allen SOLDER-61 followup
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[18:52:53] <mojavelinux> sorry about that, had to fix an old commit
[18:53:00] <mojavelinux> then replayed all commits since then
[18:53:22] <lightguard_jp> Please don't tell me that was a rebase or anything as nasty as that?
[18:54:01] <mojavelinux> rebase!
[18:54:02] <mojavelinux> hahha
[18:54:06] <mojavelinux> but it was done right ;)
[18:54:10] <mojavelinux> I tested :)
[18:54:22] <mojavelinux> it works by rebasing and selecing a single commit
[18:54:32] <mojavelinux> then you can change the commit message (I needed to change the author)
[18:54:34] <lightguard_jp> Ugh
[18:54:39] <mojavelinux> then it replays all the ones after that
[18:54:44] <mojavelinux> and you force the tree up
[18:54:53] <mojavelinux> it makes a lot of noise, but everything remained the same
[18:55:05] <aslak> mojavelinux, not really, everything changes
[18:55:07] <lightguard_jp> Going to screw everyone else (probably) that has a check out of solder.
[18:55:08] <mojavelinux> only side effect i see is that it added me as the committer (not author) on commits that happened since
[18:55:21] <lightguard_jp> Might want to send out an email and tell people they may have problems updating.
[18:55:36] <mojavelinux> hold on, I have a separate checkout, let me see what happens
[18:56:07] <mojavelinux> nope, no problem
[18:56:19] <lightguard_jp> Just did a pull?
[18:56:23] <mojavelinux> yep
[18:56:26] <lightguard_jp> Okay
[18:56:31] <mojavelinux> it say "merge recursive clean"
[18:56:35] <lightguard_jp> Resting a little easier in that case
[18:56:44] <mojavelinux> I didn't change files, so that's why I figured it would be okay
[18:56:58] <mojavelinux> but it's another great question for matthew
[18:57:01] <mojavelinux> on how to do it exactly right
[18:57:06] <aslak> lightguard_jp, resetting i snothing more then git fetch upstream master & git reset --hard upstream/master anyway
[18:57:14] <mojavelinux> because there will be times we forget to credit somone
[18:57:57] <lightguard_jp> aslak: mojavelinux I don't mind fixing commit messages, but screwing with histories and indexes is asking for trouble
[18:58:19] <aslak> mojavelinux, if it says 'merge' it means it has changed, it just managed to merge it clean. shouldn't it had said fast forward?
[18:58:26] <mojavelinux> ?
[18:58:27] *** bleathem_away is now known as bleathem
[18:58:44] <aslak> mojavelinux, what is your last commit message in your local v. now?
[18:58:58] <bleathem> Lookin' for some retweets on my Seam Faces/Security blog...
[18:59:00] <mojavelinux> the commit history of solder is correct, I know that much
[18:59:17] <mojavelinux> damn
[18:59:21] <mojavelinux> I see a merge in my local log
[18:59:22] <mojavelinux> grrr
[18:59:25] <aslak> exactly
[18:59:57] <aslak> chaining a single commit , changes it's hash, which changes it's childs hashes etc
[19:00:08] <mojavelinux> git reset --hard origin/master
[19:00:11] <mojavelinux> makes it right
[19:00:13] <aslak> yea
[19:00:18] <aslak> everyone has to do that
[19:00:25] <mojavelinux> okay, everyone, on solder
[19:00:26] <mojavelinux> do this
[19:00:27] <mojavelinux> git reset --hard origin/master
[19:00:28] <mojavelinux> :)
[19:00:40] <aslak> "git fetch upstream master" first :)
[19:00:48] <mojavelinux> chalk it up for learning, we need to know how to do this...jason and I are looking into git training
[19:01:31] <mojavelinux> I've read a ton of blogs on this topic, didn't get me any smarter and everyone disagrees, so we need to start getting the right training because knowing this stuff is absolutely essential
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[19:01:58] <mojavelinux> and really, this goes back to me not knowing how to resolve merge conflicts without destroying the original commit
[19:02:04] <mojavelinux> which I'm still confused about
[19:02:53] <aslak> mojavelinux, sit in one matthews git workshop at the next conference. you probably know most of it, but he starts out with a very nice overview of how the internals work.. when you know that it all makes sense.. :)
[19:03:50] <Diablo-D3> hrm
[19:03:57] <mojavelinux> yeah, that is the plan, but jason and I want to get even more serious about the training...I want to make sure I cram this stuff into my brain so it's absolutely straight...at this point, learning in an ad-hoc way is really going to hold us back
[19:04:05] <Diablo-D3> man, I need "jsf for idiots" or something
[19:04:14] <Diablo-D3> because google is totally screwing me over here
[19:04:32] <mojavelinux> and that really goes for a lot of this team because I see a lot of struggling commits...perfectly understandable, i'm in that boat too
[19:04:52] <mojavelinux> I just need some rigorous study on it
[19:06:36] <Diablo-D3> what, you guys and git?
[19:06:39] <Diablo-D3> git is so fucking wonderful
[19:07:06] <Diablo-D3> git actually makes me happy
[19:07:10] <Diablo-D3> that is a rare feat in of itself
[19:11:13] <Diablo-D3> http://developers.slashdot.org/story/11/03/28/1634259/Java-Creator-James-Gosling-Hired-At-Google
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[19:36:26] <oranheim> aslak: do we have an updated 'arquillian-framework-jsfunit' compliant with arquillian alpha 5 and jsfunit beta1?
[19:37:50] <mojavelinux> that's a good question, we need to get our thumb on that because brian & team will need it for faces
[19:38:33] <aslak> oranheim, no, but i just did a patch for it, https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JSFUNIT-272
[19:38:34] <jbossbot> jira [JSFUNIT-272] Upgrade Arquillian integration to 1.0.0.Alpha5 [Open (Unresolved) Feature Request, Critical, Stan Silvert] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JSFUNIT-272
[19:39:02] <aslak> oranheim, if you want to apply and build from source.. :)
[19:39:24] <oranheim> aslak: good stuff :)
[19:39:46] <lightguard_jp> curious about easyb (or spock) integration as well
[19:40:23] <aslak> haven't touched the spock stuff in a long time
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[19:56:57] <Diablo-D3> sigh.
[19:57:01] <Diablo-D3> I must be crazy
[19:57:09] <Diablo-D3> but jsf is possibly the most opaque shit ever
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[20:23:06] <bleathem> lol
[20:23:20] <bleathem> such power you wield mojavelinux!
[20:26:21] <Diablo-D3> well, Im not wrong
[20:29:46] <Diablo-D3> mojavelinux: so, Im glad you volunteered for this
[20:29:55] <Diablo-D3> go find me a good jsf for idiots guide
[20:30:12] <mojavelinux> I believe bleathem recommended ed's book
[20:30:52] <Diablo-D3> he did?
[20:31:02] <bleathem> Ed's book is good, goes in depth quite a bit
[20:31:37] <mojavelinux> http://www.amazon.com/JavaServer-Faces-2-0-Complete-Reference/dp/0071625097
[20:31:39] <bleathem> I've been meaning to check out Cay Hostmann's book, aimed at more of a collegiate level I think
[20:31:43] <mojavelinux> I know that david's book is good too
[20:31:50] <bleathem> Would be a good introductory text
[20:32:03] <bleathem> I think David and Cay co-authored...
[20:32:04] <mojavelinux> yeah, that's more in depth because those guys just love to get deep into the topics
[20:32:21] <mojavelinux> http://www.amazon.com/Core-JavaServer-Faces-David-Geary/dp/0137012896/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1301337147&sr=1-1
[20:32:24] <bleathem> Really useful when you are trying to grok what's going on
[20:32:30] <Diablo-D3> so, c:set seems to ALMOST be what I want.
[20:32:36] <mojavelinux> you can buy it from wherever, we are condoning amazon :) hahaha
[20:32:38] <Diablo-D3> except I cant set a bean field with it
[20:32:48] <bleathem> I love the "Expert group insights" that Ed peppered throughout his book
[20:32:53] <mojavelinux> also, patrick, another good channel is ##jsf
[20:33:00] <bleathem> c:set is a jstl tag
[20:33:01] <mojavelinux> I know, double hash is weird, but necessary
[20:33:05] <mojavelinux> and also #richfaces
[20:33:09] <bleathem> be careful using it with facelets
[20:33:15] <Diablo-D3> mojavelinux: I remember when freenode didnt have those
[20:33:20] <Diablo-D3> bleathem: yeah, Im assuming it wont work
[20:33:46] <bleathem> c:set is active is iterated before the component tree is built
[20:33:56] <bleathem> so won't have any effect at render time
[20:33:57] <Diablo-D3> actually, I remember when freenode didnt exist
[20:34:03] <bleathem> try uisng a ui:repeat
[20:34:07] <mojavelinux> right, there are two phases of rendering
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[20:34:27] <mojavelinux> there is the tree building phase
[20:34:31] <Diablo-D3> I just want to set a bean's class variable without any strange mojo
[20:34:37] <mojavelinux> and the recursive rendering/walking phase
[20:34:49] <Diablo-D3> Ive gotten like 4 different answers, none of them quite what I want
[20:34:55] <bleathem> sorry, got c:set confused with c:forEach in my head
[20:35:03] <Diablo-D3> bleathem: hah.
[20:35:04] <bleathem> don't know why!
[20:35:30] <bleathem> you can always call a setter with an actionListener
[20:35:39] <bleathem> what are you trying to achieve?
[20:36:21] <Diablo-D3> <h:selectOneRadio value="#{identity.authenticatorName}">
[20:36:21] <Diablo-D3>        <f:selectItem itemLabel="OpenID" itemValue="openIdAuthenticator"/>
[20:36:21] <Diablo-D3>    </h:selectOneRadio>
[20:36:25] <Diablo-D3> without needing the radio
[20:36:41] <Diablo-D3> but I dont wanna use seam-config to set the xml either
[20:37:26] <bleathem> what do you mean without needing the radio?
[20:37:42] <Diablo-D3> I dont want it optional right now.
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[20:39:55] <lightguard_jp> Diablo-D3: Sounds like this is more of a jsf question, would you mind moving to ##jsf please?
[20:43:22] <Diablo-D3> lightguard_jp: well, it still may be a seam qeustion
[20:43:25] <Diablo-D3> *question
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[20:43:29] <Diablo-D3> since seam controls how el works
[20:44:00] <lightguard_jp> kinda
[20:44:05] <lightguard_jp> It adds another resolver
[20:44:17] <mojavelinux> seam doesn't control how EL works in a JSF view at all
[20:44:18] <gastaldi> hey all !
[20:44:24] <lightguard_jp> gastaldi: Hey
[20:44:34] <mojavelinux> the only thing CDI does is give you beans to access by name
[20:44:34] 
[20:44:37] <mojavelinux> the rest is pure jsf
[20:44:41] <mojavelinux> hey George Gastaldi, gastaldi
[20:44:41] <gastaldi> *chirp*
[20:44:54] <gastaldi> lol, hey Dan Allen , mojavelinux !
[20:45:06] <mojavelinux> hahaha, oops, auto-complete #fail
[20:45:06] <lightguard_jp> gastaldi: Pretty good.
[20:45:17] <mojavelinux> okay, gotta get back to working on this training material
[20:45:46] 
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[20:46:02] <gastaldi> The #richfaces channel seems dead
[20:46:26] <lightguard_jp> gastaldi: They mostly use it for meetings
[20:46:33] <lightguard_jp> If you have JSF questions try ##jsf
[20:46:37] <gastaldi> ok, thanks
[20:47:19] <Diablo-D3> man whats with the killing of #seam-dev here
[20:49:27] <mojavelinux> sorry man, don't mean to come down on you :) we just want to make sure you are getting the help in the right place
[20:50:01] <Diablo-D3> well, its not a generic jsf question
[20:50:07] <Diablo-D3> I could care less if my code works on other platforms
[20:50:10] <lightguard_jp> A lot of use use JSF, but you'll probably get much more help in the proper places.
[20:50:27] <Diablo-D3> huh, this is interesting
[20:50:36] <Diablo-D3> it isnt processing the c namespace
[20:50:51] <Diablo-D3> xmlns:c="http://java.sun.com/jstl/core" apparently doesnt work
[20:50:54] <mojavelinux> looks like the richfaces guys are on ##jsf and #richfaces
[20:50:56] <Diablo-D3> or Im doing something else stupid
[20:51:16] <gastaldi> mojavelinux: The richfaces guys are dead in #richfaces.
[20:51:31] <gastaldi> and ##jsf also. I got a response from Diablo-D3 only :)
[20:51:38] <mojavelinux> oh, hmm, jay said they would be there
[20:51:45] <mojavelinux> sometimes you have to call out for them by name
[20:52:09] <mojavelinux> jay said the forums are the best place for JSF and RichFaces questions
[20:52:09] <gastaldi> wow, ed burns is there too ! :)
[20:52:16] <mojavelinux> yep, he's always around
[20:52:19] <Diablo-D3> who is this ed burns guy anyhow
[20:52:30] <mojavelinux> and jason lee, who works on the admin console for gf and jsf templating
[20:52:39] <mojavelinux> ed burns is the lead of the MOjarra project and the JSF specification
[20:52:44] <mojavelinux> worked for Sun, now for Oracle
[20:52:47] <gastaldi> yup
[20:52:53] <bleathem> I think Ryan Lubke is the Mojarra lead
[20:52:56] <mojavelinux> and author, as you saw in the link I sent earlier
[20:53:00] <mojavelinux> Ryan was
[20:53:00] <bleathem> or did that change?
[20:53:05] <gastaldi> Hope he gets smarter and move to Google as Gosling did
[20:54:32] <Diablo-D3> heh
[20:54:41] <Diablo-D3> google seems to be putting the band back together or something
[20:54:52] <Diablo-D3> after basically everyone either quit or was forcequit from obstacle
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[20:56:11] <Diablo-D3> theres a few others that google has swept up
[20:56:14] <Diablo-D3> but I forget who
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[21:12:09] <oranheim> aslak: what's the difference between 'org.jboss.weld.arquillian.container' and 'org.jboss.arquillian.container'. mojavelinux recommended usage of the first, but in your updated doc, the latter is referred to
[21:13:03] <oranheim> for artifact arquillian-weld-ee-embedded-1.1
[21:26:50] <aslak> oranheim, one is maintained for what ever v. Weld use, the other is what ever version arquillian is at
[21:27:09] <aslak> oranheim, it's the same impl, just updated depending on hows APIs to match
[21:27:56] <oranheim> aslak: I see. thanks
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[21:53:01] <jbossbot> git [forge] push master ab340a8.. Lincoln Baxter III Plugin Classpath Isolation and Hot-Loading (all OS's)
[21:53:01] <jbossbot> git [forge] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/forge/compare/869653c...ab340a8
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[22:01:29] <jose_freitas> mojavelinux, sbryzak: ping
[22:02:44] <jose_freitas> I created a new jira issue for features request in booking: SEAM-66
[22:02:46] <jbossbot> jira [SEAM-66] new improvements for booking example [Open (Unresolved) Feature Request, Major, Unassigned] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAM-66
[22:04:48] <nickarls> booking is the kitchen sink, it should do everything. JMS event bridging, reporting etc.
[22:11:50] 
[22:12:04] <jose_freitas> dunno if we can cover everything though
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[22:13:42] <nickarls> random rant: we'll have to make sure the sfwk.org forums never end up like the hibernate forums. getting an answer from there is pretty impossible
[22:14:13] <jose_freitas> why is impossible in hibernate forums?
[22:14:42] <bleathem> nickarls: same goes for the hibernate jira
[22:14:48] <nickarls> jose: *crickets*
[22:15:13] <nickarls> ask question, wait for a week, add some details, wait for a week. repeat
[22:15:15] <bleathem> there are old valid, stale jira issues, some wven with patches supplied that have gone un-answered for years
[22:15:29] <bleathem> wven - even
[22:15:35] <nickarls> and I'm not talking "how do I map X"-type questions
[22:16:18] <bleathem> if you want to know how to map X, ask the pirates.  They put one on every map =D
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[22:17:06] <nickarls> bleathem: they only operate outside Somalia nowadays, and they use radars.
[22:17:47] <jose_freitas> lol
[22:18:00] <clerum> lincolnthree: any idea where the Alpha2 of render went? https://repository.jboss.org/nexus/content/groups/public-jboss/org/jboss/seam/render/seam-render/
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[22:22:31] <jose_freitas> I think that forums is normally handled by community
[22:22:39] <jose_freitas> people shouldn't let it die
[22:22:49] <jose_freitas> ask and answer
[22:22:57] <jose_freitas> of course that is easier said than done
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[22:34:38] <mojavelinux> the forums has been one of those "we really need to figure out how to handle them" topics; definitely on the table for discussion post 3.0.0-final
[22:34:58] <mojavelinux> basically, we all got so busy that the forums just sort of feel off our plate for being able to follow
[22:35:19] <lightguard_jp> Some of us have been answering (Shane and myself mostly)
[22:35:19] <mojavelinux> i have an idea that I think will allow us to at least get some consistent governance
[22:35:24] <mojavelinux> we'll chat about it at the next meeting
[22:35:37] <mojavelinux> yes, and I do appreciate both team and community members that have been answering
[22:35:42] <lightguard_jp> Well, for Seam 3 anyway :)
[22:36:15] <bleathem_away> some kind of notification that a relevant topic has been posted would be cool
[22:36:23] <bleathem_away> maybe people could tag forum posts?
[22:36:26] <mojavelinux> what i'm looking at is a general approach that will let them live up to what the community expects
[22:36:45] <mojavelinux> not to say that we have to reply to everything, but that the forum itself is healthy
[22:36:48] <nickarls> yeah, the users could have a checkbox if they think their question is important and they need special treatment :-)
[22:36:48] <mojavelinux> probably the best way to put it
[22:37:09] <mojavelinux> like I said, we have some ideas and will be looking for feedback, so let's call it an agenda item
[22:37:44] <mojavelinux> we may not have time in this weeks meeting, but likely by next week
[22:38:04] <mojavelinux> one of the important steps is moving to better software
[22:38:17] <nickarls> ouch. forbidden topic
[22:38:22] <mojavelinux> the forum software the seamframework.org uses is just not up to snuff with forum software that's available today
[22:38:37] <mojavelinux> nope, it's back on the table and no longer forbidden under the new leadership
[22:38:49] <mojavelinux> with that said, we have been delaying to focus on the Seam 3 final release
[22:39:03] <mojavelinux> didn't want to detract from that goal
[22:39:17] <mojavelinux> so that's why I say next week, once we've achieved that milestone
[22:39:24] <mojavelinux> we can look to the future and set plans
[22:40:01] <mojavelinux> so, start collecting your ideas, cause we are going to ask for them :)
[22:40:13] <mojavelinux> my mind is open, and we will take an open approach
[22:41:28] <mojavelinux> and by ideas I mean what are the requirements for running an effective community. if we focus on requirements, the solutions will fall into place
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[22:44:03] <nickarls> alesj: so you have encountered this bug "live" somewhere else?
[22:44:05] <nickarls> oops
[22:44:07] <mojavelinux> for those of you designing fluent APIs
[22:44:22] <mojavelinux> definitely be sure to follow the progress of Emmanuel's team
[22:44:23] <mojavelinux> http://t.co/ShtrbBL
[22:44:33] <mojavelinux> that should really inspire you when looking at your module :)
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[22:52:31] <gastaldi> hey shane !
[22:52:58] <gastaldi> I need a help regarding conversation propagation on Seam 2
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[22:59:20] <bleathem> mojavelinux: SEAMFACES-126
[22:59:22] <jbossbot> jira [SEAMFACES-126] Throw an some kind of unauthorized exception when auth fails, rather than returning a 401 response [Open (Unresolved) Enhancement, Major, Unassigned] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMFACES-126
[23:00:15] <bleathem> lightguard_jp any comments or insight you could add to SEAMFACES_126 would be appreciated.  Ping me if you need any clarification on what it's about...
[23:01:44] <mojavelinux> excellent
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[23:28:05] <jbossbot> git [forge] push master 03e4feb.. Lincoln Baxter, III Documented installing plugins from alternate sources, updated installation plugins
[23:28:05] <jbossbot> git [forge] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/forge/compare/ab340a8...03e4feb
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[23:38:24] <bleathem> lightguard_jp I like your idea of a low priority Catch handler in Seam Faces for SEAMFACES_126
[23:38:44] <bleathem> Such a handler could be useful in other areas as well
[23:39:00] <lightguard_jp> Yep
[23:39:13] <bleathem> Would it be ok to make Catch a required dependency of Faces?
[23:39:21] <lightguard_jp> Of course they'd still be optional if you didn't have Catch on the classpath
[23:39:27] <lightguard_jp> Wouldn't need to.
[23:39:38] <lightguard_jp> You could make it provided, just to allow it to compile
[23:39:50] <bleathem> yeah, that's the way it is now
[23:40:07] <lightguard_jp> But I don't see a problem with making it a hard dep
[23:40:20] <lightguard_jp> It's one less thing people have to manually pull in
[23:40:32] <bleathem> What I want though, is to throw an unauthorized exception, that will eventually lead to a 401 response if not otherwise handled
[23:40:43] <bleathem> if catch isn't there, we will have to wire this some other way
[23:41:00] <bleathem> Unless there is some JSF exception that I don't know about
[23:41:00] <lightguard_jp> True
[23:41:10] <lightguard_jp> Um
[23:41:14] <lightguard_jp> Not sure on that one
[23:41:20] <bleathem> Smells like a JSF spec issue to me if there isn't one
[23:41:23] <bleathem> there should be
[23:41:53] <lightguard_jp> Doesn't look like there is
[23:41:58] <lightguard_jp> FacesException
[23:42:01] <bleathem> Yeah, I couldn't find one
[23:42:06] <lightguard_jp> AbortProcessingException, ConverterException, EvaluationException, FaceletException, UpdateModelException, ValidatorException, ViewExpiredException
[23:42:11] <lightguard_jp> That's all I see in the docs
[23:42:18] <bleathem> Or maybe a Servlet Exception
[23:42:32] <lightguard_jp> Hm
[23:43:00] <lightguard_jp> AuthException
[23:43:08] <lightguard_jp> In javax.security.auth.message package
[23:43:09] <bleathem> does it lead to a 401?
[23:43:34] <lightguard_jp> Just a general exception
[23:43:48] <lightguard_jp> http://download.oracle.com/javaee/6/api/javax/security/auth/message/AuthException.html
[23:43:50] <bleathem> Yeah, we could extend that exception as our unauthorized exception
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[23:46:38] <bleathem> I updated the jira
[23:46:50] <bleathem> for the future!
[23:47:15] <bleathem> I love re-reading old jira and saying to myself "Wow, that
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[23:47:36] <bleathem> 's a great idea!"
[23:47:46] <bleathem> it's like talking through time
[23:48:24] <lightguard_jp> :)
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