[00:00:03] <mojavelinux> hahaha
[00:00:09] <mojavelinux> conversations only work the first time you deploy
[00:00:16] <mojavelinux> you deploy a second time, no conversations
[00:00:20] <mojavelinux> now what the heck is that about?
[00:00:27] <mojavelinux> I mean, seriously, tests!!!
[00:00:54] <lightguard_jp> That's pretty messed up
[00:01:42] <aslak> mojavelinux, maybe a arq feature.. @ReRunTest(times = 10) ;)
[00:02:03] <mojavelinux> exactly...no doubt about it
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[00:02:13] <mojavelinux> in fact, you could just write two tests that both do the same thing
[00:02:22] <mojavelinux> obviously the repeat would be better
[00:02:25] <mojavelinux> though testng has that feature
[00:02:27] <mojavelinux> I believe
[00:02:32] <lightguard_jp> Yes, it does
[00:02:37] <mojavelinux> yep, this is definitely a bug
[00:02:41] <lightguard_jp> Or Gradle ;)
[00:02:44] <mojavelinux> it's not a conversation bug
[00:02:47] <mojavelinux> it's an interceptor bug
[00:02:53] <mojavelinux> interceptors are not applied after the first deployment
[00:02:58] <mojavelinux> now go take that one to the bank
[00:02:58] <lightguard_jp> Weld or GF integration?
[00:03:06] <mojavelinux> well, that's always the next question
[00:03:07] <aslak> mojavelinux, i know exactly what you mean: https://github.com/arquillian/arquillian/tree/master/containers/glassfish-embedded-3/src/test/java/org/jboss/arquillian/container/glassfish/embedded_3
[00:03:37] <aslak> GlassFishxxxTestCase 1 and 2, identical. needed to see that it managed to undeploy the first deployment properly
[00:04:04] <mojavelinux> hahah
[00:04:24] <mojavelinux> this is *exactly* the type of thing that we mean when we give our talk
[00:04:34] <mojavelinux> it's not enough to pass a unit test, integration testing is so much more than that
[00:04:35] <mojavelinux> :)
[00:04:42] <mojavelinux> and arquillian just makes the unfindable findable
[00:04:54] <mojavelinux> because you can script the craziest steps
[00:05:03] <mojavelinux> and make sure that the thing still stands up
[00:05:34] <mojavelinux> I'm going to reproduce this manually, then I'm going to need to write a test to verify that we've found another critical bug in gf
[00:06:03] <mojavelinux> i have been deploying this app for freakin' 8 hours
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[00:11:25] <mojavelinux> incredible!
[00:11:32] <mojavelinux> it only fails on the third deployment
[00:11:36] <mojavelinux> the first two are fine
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[00:11:40] <mojavelinux> unless
[00:11:42] <mojavelinux> it's random
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[00:14:17] <mojavelinux> it appears random
[00:14:25] <lightguard_jp> Doh
[00:14:25] <mojavelinux> it only activates interceptors sometimes
[00:14:35] <mojavelinux> i put a break point on the interceptor
[00:14:37] <mojavelinux> deploy
[00:14:38] <mojavelinux> test
[00:14:40] <mojavelinux> deploy
[00:14:40] <mojavelinux> test
[00:14:42] <mojavelinux> deploy
[00:14:43] <mojavelinux> test
[00:14:47] <mojavelinux> it works about 50% of the time
[00:14:54] <lightguard_jp> That's pathetic
[00:15:03] <lightguard_jp> Not sure if we can fix that on our end :(
[00:15:56] <lightguard_jp> Probably not
[00:16:03] <lightguard_jp> Known bug :(
[00:16:08] <mojavelinux> but I think a test will help us prove it faster
[00:16:12] <lightguard_jp> True
[00:16:22] <mojavelinux> if it's as bad as 50% of the time, it should surface quickly
[00:16:31] <lightguard_jp> Not sure how you'll get it to show all the time though
[00:16:41] <mojavelinux> then we can actually turn up the logging and see if weld is reporting interceptors
[00:16:56] <mojavelinux> the first rule of any test
[00:17:00] <mojavelinux> prove that you aren't crazy
[00:17:03] <lightguard_jp> :)
[00:17:06] <mojavelinux> that's what I think a lot of the time
[00:17:23] <lightguard_jp> mojavelinux: Are you going to have time to help hack the glassfish 3.1 container tonight?
[00:17:33] <lightguard_jp> May not be until late your time though
[00:17:42] <mojavelinux> perhaps, if I go eat right now, cause the wife is restless :)
[00:17:47] <mojavelinux> she doesnt' like glassfish right now
[00:18:01] <lightguard_jp> I bet
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[00:19:41] <lightguard_jp> I'm going to head home, be back later
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[00:20:35] <johnament> where's the flurry of messages from mojavelinux ?
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[00:21:28] <johnament> stuartdouglas: any chance my seam managed change can be included in CR3?
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[00:24:31] <johnament> gastaldi: i'm merging your stuff now
[00:24:40] <gastaldi> johnament: excellent
[00:25:01] <gastaldi> i forgot to check the docs
[00:25:25] <gastaldi> to see if there is any old stuff
[00:26:50] <gastaldi> how about launching jcr alpha 1 before seam cr3 ?
[00:27:04] <jbossbot> git [faces] push master dc69563.. Dan Allen workaround visibility bug in weld on glassfish 3.1
[00:27:04] <jbossbot> git [faces] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/faces/compare/0f3d2ac...dc69563
[00:27:31] <johnament> i'm ok, sbryzak any thoughts?
[00:27:56] <sbryzak> just reading the backlog, one moment ;)
[00:28:38] <gastaldi> launching now would be awesome :)
[00:28:54] <johnament> well let me merge in first. i forget how to merge branches :/
[00:29:32] <sbryzak> johnament: yep we can do the alpha 1 release
[00:29:48] <gastaldi> there u go
[00:29:50] <sbryzak> would friday be ok?
[00:30:07] <gastaldi> no problem for me
[00:30:09] <sbryzak> or even tomorrow possibly if i can squeeze it in
[00:30:11] <mojavelinux> okay, seam booking issues are almost all resolved, which means that these modules can actually be used on glassfish
[00:30:32] <mojavelinux> there is one remaining issue, and that's the typed logger in servlet...it is hit by the visiblity issue
[00:30:41] <mojavelinux> seam-servlet comes ahead of seam-solder in the alphabet
[00:30:52] <sbryzak> mojavelinux: ouch, do we have any workaround?
[00:30:52] <mojavelinux> so the typed loggers in seam servlet don't get picked up by the extension in seam-solder
[00:31:06] <gastaldi> tomorrow the better
[00:31:11] <mojavelinux> the shortterm workaround is to copy the extension into seam servlet and have it look for it's own typed loggers
[00:31:24] <mojavelinux> but that would be required for any module that uses them
[00:31:34] <sbryzak> that's pretty nasty
[00:31:35] <mojavelinux> i'm still trying to find a better solution
[00:32:01] <mojavelinux> btw, it isn't just a problem w/ typed loggers, that just happens to be what demonstrates the problem
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[00:32:16] <mojavelinux> it could happen elsewhere, just nothing that seam booking hits
[00:32:42] <mojavelinux> we need to add seam security into seam booking, for a key reason just to see if it can be used successfully
[00:32:56] <mojavelinux> now that seam booking is just about ready, that should likely be done
[00:33:05] <sbryzak> that should be simple
[00:33:10] <mojavelinux> i'll share the one remaining patch required to get seam booking to work on glassfish w/ you guys
[00:33:23] <mojavelinux> (since i'm not ready to commit the solution I just mentioned)
[00:33:33] <mojavelinux> you can at least put that to the side and try out the security integration
[00:33:37] <johnament> is it a secret?
[00:33:48] <johnament> btw, already first question about booking on glassfish for CR3
[00:33:51] <mojavelinux> actually, i'll put it on a branch
[00:33:52] <mojavelinux> there you go
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[00:35:28] <jbossbot> git [servlet] push temporary-logger-fix 5750bf9.. Dan Allen temporary workaround to get typed loggers working on glassfish 3.1
[00:35:28] <jbossbot> git [servlet] push temporary-logger-fix URL: http://github.com/seam/servlet/compare/0000000...5750bf9
[00:36:04] <mojavelinux> there you go
[00:36:05] <mojavelinux> https://github.com/seam/servlet/tree/temporary-logger-fix
[00:36:09] <mojavelinux> if you compile that
[00:36:12] <mojavelinux> you can run booking on glassfish
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[00:36:15] <mojavelinux> 3.1
[00:36:29] <mojavelinux> make sure to consult the readme
[00:37:10] <sbryzak> i won't have time to look at that today, i have to finish some documentation and get my presentation ready for tonight
[00:37:44] <mojavelinux> gotta run to dinner
[00:37:47] <sbryzak> i should be able to get it working with seam security tomorrow though
[00:38:00] <mojavelinux> good, well, now at least you won't have to deal with *other* problems ;)
[00:38:06] <sbryzak> great :)
[00:38:13] <mojavelinux> and I"ve committed a whole bunch of the portability fixes to the masters of the modules
[00:38:28] <mojavelinux> so booking is running on snapshots, but atm it's all good :)
[00:38:30] <sbryzak> nice
[00:39:05] <mojavelinux> i've got some followup work to do after dinner, then i'll finish my draft of the blog entry to share with you
[00:39:21] <aslak> can't make it fail when i need to ugh..  anyone come up with a simple way to make something fail during in container testing with a unknown exception to the client side ?
[00:39:25] <johnament> sometimes i hate git.  it keeps telling me everything up to date, even though it's not :/
[00:39:39] <aslak> can anyone.. :)
[00:40:12] <sbryzak> aslak: just throw an exception?
[00:40:23] <aslak> what's a good way to crash weld runtime ? hehe
[00:40:40] <aslak> sbryzak, has to be unknown to the client side. CNF
[00:41:01] <sbryzak> use reflection
[00:41:02] <aslak> i can dynamically load WeldException and throw that i gues
[00:41:04] <aslak> yea
[00:41:35] <sbryzak> throw Class.forName("org.jboss.weld.WeldException").newInstance() or something like that
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[00:44:27] <jbossbot> git [jcr] push master adfd52b.. George Gastaldi Implemented Config Object
[00:44:27] <jbossbot> git [jcr] push master 685a5e1.. George Gastaldi Implemented Repository proxying
[00:44:27] <jbossbot> git [jcr] push master 828dac5.. George Gastaldi Refactored code
[00:44:27] <jbossbot> git [jcr] push master 007d11b.. George Gastaldi Added License header and javadocs
[00:44:27] <jbossbot> git [jcr] push master f4fa399.. George Gastaldi Removed proxy implementation in favor of decorator objects
[00:44:27] <jbossbot> git [jcr] push master 567a61e.. George Gastaldi Moved Repository implementations to a new package
[00:44:28] <jbossbot> git [jcr] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/jcr/compare/bf9c38f...567a61e
[00:45:08] <johnament> That couldn't have been any more difficult.
[00:47:17] <johnament> sbryzak: stuart timed out when I asked, but do you think we can include SEAMPERSIST-35 in CR3?
[00:47:19] <jbossbot> jira [SEAMPERSIST-35] Deprecate SeamManaged [Pull Request Sent (Unresolved) Task, Major, Unassigned] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMPERSIST-35
[00:47:48] <sbryzak> johnament: certainly, that's a change i did want to include
[00:48:45] <johnament> sbryzak: ok, the pull request is there then.  the only issue is the pom is looking for a solder snapshot, which has the new annotation.
[00:49:15] <sbryzak> johnament: stuart should be in the office shortly, i'll ask him to take care of it when he gets here
[00:50:02] <johnament> sbryzak: cool, thanks.
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[00:54:31] <sbryzak_> stupid computer crashed
[00:54:51] <sbryzak_> sbryzak: imposter!
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[00:55:06] <sbryzak_> that's better
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[00:55:22] <johnament> its like he ran scared when you yelled at him
[00:55:26] <sbryzak> there can be only one
[00:55:45] <sbryzak> i have that effect
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[00:56:02] <sbryzak> stuartdouglas: where are you ;p
[00:57:54] <aslak> sbryzak, thanks, fails like a charm :)
[00:58:15] <sbryzak> aslak: glad it (doesn't) works for you ;)
[00:58:17] <stuartdouglas> Oatly, on a train, about 30 min away
[01:01:00] <stuartdouglas> I don't actually know where oatly is, but the next station is hurstvillie
[01:03:35] <johnament> hurtsville?
[01:03:45] <johnament> err hurtsvillie?
[01:05:26] <sbryzak> stuartdouglas: you have google latitude on your phone?
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[01:05:50] <stuartdouglas> Not quite, the s is before the t
[01:05:54] <stuartdouglas> It was nearly hurtvillie with iPhone auto correct :D
[01:05:55] <stuartdouglas> No, what does it do
[01:06:06] <sbryzak> it shows your contacts where you are
[01:06:57] <sbryzak> stuartdouglas: sent you an invite
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[01:11:14] <stuartdouglas> I take it you are in the office now? How was the 4am flight?
[01:11:59] <sbryzak> yep i'm here now
[01:12:02] <sbryzak> flight was... early
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[02:40:11] <sbryzak_> mojavelinux: ping, still awake?
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[02:58:07] <_gastaldi> hello all
[02:58:26] <_gastaldi> hey sbryzak: What has been decided about Seam JCR ?
[02:58:34] <_gastaldi> Can we release alpha-1 tomorrow ?
[02:58:42] <sbryzak> that's the plan
[03:02:26] <_gastaldi> excellent
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[03:06:52] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master b130680.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare release 3.0.0.CR2
[03:06:52] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/solder/compare/ed03595...b130680
[03:07:02] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master e06a605.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare for next development iteration
[03:07:02] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/solder/compare/b130680...e06a605
[03:18:29] <_gastaldi> Yahoo ! Welcome to life Solder 3.0.0 CR2 !
[03:18:30] <_gastaldi> :)
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[03:20:30] <gastaldi> sbryzak: Is there a new seam-parent yet ?
[03:20:44] <sbryzak> gastaldi: no new parent for CR3
[03:20:58] <sbryzak> there will be a new seam-bom, but i can't release that until i know what all the module versions will be
[03:21:05] <gastaldi> ok
[03:23:07] <mojavelinux> I'm glad to see that Pete already set the stage for my portability blog entry by explaining how cdi 1.1 will focus on fixing inconsistencies and providing clarifications
[03:23:13] <mojavelinux> excellent, now all I have to do is reference that
[03:23:54] <sbryzak> mojavelinux: i release CR2 for solder, i hope there were no outstanding changes to go in
[03:23:55] <jbossbot> git [jcr] push master a776f02.. George Gastaldi Fixed failing tests
[03:23:55] <jbossbot> git [jcr] push master 2dad465.. George Gastaldi Improved docs
[03:23:55] <jbossbot> git [jcr] push master 1b7731c.. George Gastaldi Improved docs
[03:23:55] <jbossbot> git [jcr] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/jcr/compare/567a61e...1b7731c
[03:24:36] <mojavelinux> nope, I pushed what I had
[03:24:54] <mojavelinux> good deal
[03:25:22] <sbryzak> mojavelinux: np with the CR2 for faces
[03:25:58] <sbryzak> i should probably check jira for the others
[03:26:02] <mojavelinux> excellent...once I get a few more things wrapped up, i'm going to chat with brian and see what things we can push through this week so that we can take advantage of the feedback
[03:26:21] <sbryzak> actually, i really want us to get view security into the final
[03:26:29] <mojavelinux> yes, we really need that
[03:26:33] <sbryzak> stuart had a good idea for how that would work
[03:26:34] <mojavelinux> I agree
[03:26:46] <sbryzak> and now that the typesafe authorization stuff is complete, we can use the annotations for that
[03:27:12] <gastaldi> Anyone with me on Seam Reporting module ?
[03:27:20] <gastaldi> :)
[03:27:46] <sbryzak> gastaldi: i'll create a sandbox project for reporting next week, when i have a couple of hours free :)
[03:27:59] <gastaldi> great
[03:28:04] <gastaldi> Thanks
[03:28:20] <gastaldi> Is there an archetype for seam modules available ?
[03:28:33] <gastaldi> just curiosity
[03:28:41] <mojavelinux> the archetype is to copy the best one :)
[03:28:45] <gastaldi> :)
[03:28:47] <mojavelinux> shane will tell you which one he likes best
[03:28:49] <gastaldi> agreed
[03:29:03] <gastaldi> Persistence ?
[03:29:04] <mojavelinux> it just been changing so much that the archetype kept getting behind
[03:29:15] <sbryzak> i think i've been copying catch
[03:29:27] <sbryzak> it's alphabetically prominent
[03:29:34] <gastaldi> lol
[03:30:24] <mojavelinux> I'm definitely in support of having the reporting module, we've needed that forever...there are a couple of wallflowers that are waiting for it to kick off and no doubt they will join in
[03:30:25] <gastaldi> sbryzak: Can u force a build on Hudson ? I fixed some tests for Seam JCR
[03:30:38] <gastaldi> Excellent
[03:30:49] <gastaldi> Will u join it also ?
[03:30:52] <sbryzak> gastaldi: we don't have the ability, sorry
[03:31:00] <gastaldi> np
[03:31:10] <sbryzak> QE guys are the ones to ask
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[03:31:40] <gastaldi> Yeah, I think I asked u before, now I remember that
[03:31:43] <mojavelinux> it's good to ask them, because if you ask the QE guys for stuff enough, then they figure out how to automate it :)
[03:31:56] <mojavelinux> we should have like an e-mail service or something that you can force a build
[03:31:56] <gastaldi> Sorry about it
[03:32:08] <gastaldi> Or login enabled :)
[03:32:15] <mojavelinux> that's a whole other battle
[03:32:19] <mojavelinux> we can't seem to win that one
[03:32:30] <sbryzak> i don't have a login
[03:32:40] <mojavelinux> I dont' get why hudson is behind a firewall, but it's annoying
[03:32:45] <gastaldi> yeah, me too
[03:33:05] 
[03:33:05] <johnament> because then we all need redhat VPN accounts :)
[03:33:15] <gastaldi> could be
[03:33:41] <sbryzak> we could always set up another hudson server
[03:34:01] <johnament> we should get oracle/sonatype to offer hudson in the cloud
[03:34:04] <mojavelinux> i'll help out with the reporting from the design perspective, but atm i'm barely hanging on to what I have to handle already :)
[03:34:19] <gastaldi> np, the idea will suffice
[03:34:20] <mojavelinux> we already have jenkins in the cloud
[03:34:21] <sbryzak> johnament: that's what cloudbeest does
[03:34:25] <sbryzak> *cloudbees
[03:34:25] <mojavelinux> cloudbees
[03:34:26] <mojavelinux> :)
[03:34:28] <mojavelinux> former jboss
[03:34:31] <mojavelinux> sasha
[03:34:35] <johnament> never heard of it
[03:34:45] <mojavelinux> oh really? check it out, it's killer
[03:34:50] <mojavelinux> it's the original hudson guy
[03:34:55] <mojavelinux> too
[03:34:57] <gastaldi> http://www.cloudbees.com/ ?
[03:35:14] <sbryzak> so, module versions
[03:35:19] <gastaldi> Nectar
[03:35:20] <sbryzak> international will definitely be CR2
[03:35:20] <mojavelinux> ah, there's sasha on the homepage :)
[03:35:25] <sbryzak> persistence will be CR2
[03:35:28] <johnament> but that's jenkins. i want hudson :-P
[03:35:34] <gastaldi> Lol
[03:35:38] <sbryzak> mojavelinux: CR2 for servlet?
[03:35:39] <mojavelinux> dude, jenkins is the source baby
[03:35:53] <gastaldi> That waiter is better
[03:35:59] <mojavelinux> servlet could likely be final
[03:35:59] <sbryzak> jenkins is the authorative project now
[03:36:13] <sbryzak> mojavelinux: even with the typesafe logging changes?
[03:36:26] <johnament> mojavelinux: does it deploy now?? we've been waiting for it to work to make something work right in JMS.
[03:36:28] <mojavelinux> oh, shoot
[03:37:03] <johnament> i dunno, i'm at a loss with the hudson/jenkins argument.
[03:37:18] <sbryzak> mojavelinux: servlet still has 3 outstanding issues for 3.0.0.Final
[03:37:21] <johnament> i already have 1 VM at work - hudson1.  maybe its partner will be jenkins1.
[03:37:23] <mojavelinux> johnament: servlet deploys on JBoss AS
[03:37:32] <johnament> mojavelinux: ok. that's what we're testing against now.
[03:37:56] <mojavelinux> but to run it on glassfish you have to use my branch (until I figure out exactly how I want to solve this problem in glassfish)
[03:38:04] <mojavelinux> the branch next to master
[03:38:06] <jbossbot> git [international] push master df0e65b.. Ken Finnigan Update to Solder 3.0.0.CR2
[03:38:06] <jbossbot> git [international] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/international/compare/0c1f7f1...df0e65b
[03:38:17] <mojavelinux> hehehe, beat me to it :)
[03:39:09] <sbryzak> mojavelinux: what do you want to do with the servlet release?
[03:39:34] <mojavelinux> let's just say CR2, simple enough to cut a Final w/ no changes
[03:39:46] <sbryzak> sounds good
[03:39:55] <sbryzak> do you have any changes you want to commit?
[03:40:01] <mojavelinux> besides, that was one of the problem modules, so people will be glad to be able to test a CR2
[03:40:02] <sbryzak> or can the release go out now
[03:40:34] 
[03:40:49] <gastaldi> No matter how many times I run
[03:41:21] <mojavelinux> ummmm
[03:43:58] <clerum>  hmm
[03:44:05] <gastaldi> any ideas ?
[03:44:08] <clerum> seems the render snapshot is hosed
[03:44:45] <johnament> gastaldi: the bizarre random fail one?
[03:44:48] <gastaldi> yeah
[03:45:16] <sbryzak> wicket module still has 8 outstanding issues for 3.0.0.Final
[03:46:00] <gastaldi> I just fixed another one that was failing from modeshape, because of that change on Event firing mechanism
[03:46:06] <clerum> do we have a new parent?
[03:46:27] <sbryzak> clerum: parent should still be 9 i think
[03:46:29] <johnament> gastaldi: well its curious, because if they (jackrabbit and modeshape) were passing the TCK, then shouldn't they resolve the same events always??
[03:46:46] <clerum> b9?
[03:46:48] 
[03:46:59] <johnament> more like $35,000
[03:47:02] <gastaldi> They pass running locally
[03:47:19] <gastaldi> you may try it yourself
[03:47:20] <johnament> do the contents match?
[03:47:24] <johnament> e.g. do a fresh checkout somewhere.
[03:47:25] <gastaldi> yes
[03:47:48] <sbryzak> clerum: just 9 - https://repository.jboss.org/nexus/content/groups/public/org/jboss/seam/seam-parent/9/
[03:48:31] <clerum> <seam.version>3.0.0.b09</seam.version>
[03:48:36] <clerum> and seam-parent 9
[03:48:37] <mojavelinux> i'm just not sure yet about this fix for the servlet logging...I really to think about it; because if we leave it as it is, it won't run on glassfish 3.1 out of the box...but my workaround ... i'm not sure why it doesn't cause a failure on AS 6
[03:48:46] <mojavelinux> so I need to make sure that the hack is self-contained
[03:48:52] <sbryzak> clerum: seam-bom latest version is 3.0.0.CR1
[03:48:56] <mojavelinux> because we dont' want to cause errors the other way
[03:49:13] <johnament> what if you had two impls?
[03:49:18] <clerum> got it
[03:49:21] <clerum> thanks
[03:49:26] <sbryzak> mojavelinux:  ok let's try to hold off the servlet module release for a bit longer
[03:49:36] <mojavelinux> yep, by tomorrow I should know
[03:49:47] <clerum> now if lincoln fixes render then I'll be golden again
[03:50:52] <clerum> hmm
[03:50:53] <clerum> this is new
[03:50:55] <clerum>  The project org.jboss.seam.mail:seam-mail-example-sendmail:3.0.0-SNAPSHOT (V:\workspace\fork-mail\examples\sendmail\pom.xml) has 1 error
[03:50:55] <clerum>    'dependencies.dependency.version' for org.jboss.spec:jboss-javaee-6.0:pom is missing. @ line 200, column 17
[03:51:26] <sbryzak> clerum: i broke that stuff
[03:51:31] <clerum> not defined in the parent anymore?
[03:51:36] <sbryzak> clerum: you need to import the specific dependencies that you require
[03:51:40] <gastaldi> johnament: Seam JCR tests passes on a fresh checkout
[03:51:53] <clerum> k
[03:52:09] <sbryzak> clerum: the seam-bom contains the versions, you just need to be specific about which dependencies your module/example requires
[03:52:33] <gastaldi> I think that a "mvn clean test" should be there instead of "mvn test"
[03:53:35] <clerum> hmm then why is it complaining about missing version
[03:54:05] <sbryzak> jose_freitas: ping
[03:54:11] <clerum> https://github.com/codylerum/mail/blob/master/examples/sendmail/pom.xml#L212
[03:54:12] <mojavelinux> clerum: no, that was a bug in parent
[03:54:14] <johnament> what if we make it dependent like modeshape?
[03:54:18] <mojavelinux> I fixed it in HEAD
[03:54:30] <clerum> what do you mean by import
[03:54:48] <mojavelinux> Shane Bryzak, sbryzak: there need to be two declarations of jboss-javaee-6.0 in parent (which i've restored)
[03:54:51] <mojavelinux> it's strange, I know
[03:54:56] <johnament> <scope>import</scope>
[03:54:59] <mojavelinux> but one of the dependencies is importing the things in the bom
[03:55:03] <mojavelinux> the other is importing the bom itself
[03:55:05] <johnament> clerum: that was for you sorry
[03:55:07] <mojavelinux> the dependendies that is
[03:55:13] <mojavelinux> stupid maven can't do both at once
[03:55:39] <mojavelinux> clerum: what you have is right, but you lost the dependency in parent
[03:55:49] <mojavelinux> it will be back in 10 :)
[03:55:52] <johnament> stupid maven, should switch back to ant
[03:55:52] <clerum> k
[03:56:25] <mojavelinux> no, forward to gradle!
[03:56:28] <mojavelinux> post 3.0
[03:56:29] <mojavelinux> :)
[03:56:45] <johnament> mojavelinux: we have 1 really old java project that uses a make file.
[03:57:01] <johnament> and the guy who installs it copies individual class files to the server.
[03:57:05] <clerum> k
[03:57:19] <clerum> no work on 10-SNAPSHOT
[03:57:26] <clerum> I'll just go back to 8 and wait a bit
[03:57:46] <mojavelinux> snapshot isn't working?
[03:57:54] <mojavelinux> oh, wait
[03:57:55] <clerum> same error
[03:57:55] <mojavelinux> sorry
[03:57:56] <mojavelinux> not parent
[03:57:59] <mojavelinux> seam-bom
[03:58:03] <mojavelinux> you need -SNAPSHOT
[03:58:06] <mojavelinux> that's where it comes from
[03:58:11] <mojavelinux> I was saying parent, meant seam-bom
[03:58:31] <mojavelinux> set seam-bom to 3.0.0-SNAPSHOT
[03:58:34] <mojavelinux> or wait for CR2
[03:59:29] *** lightguard_jp has joined #seam-dev
[04:01:00] <johnament> gastaldi: if you want, join #modeshape I'm pinging Randall about the discrepancies in properties
[04:01:19] <clerum> much better
[04:01:33] <clerum> that made the evil red boxes go away
[04:01:53] <sbryzak> anyone in contact with ken on im or something?
[04:03:36] <mojavelinux> he's not online at the moment, but would probably respond to e-mail
[04:04:06] <sbryzak> i'll e-mail him then.. unless someone else knows why joda-time is an optional dependency
[04:04:34] <jbossbot> git [faces] push master f1fbf20.. Dan Allen SEAMFACES-97 use @Requires to conditionally enable TransactionPhaseListener
[04:04:38] <jbossbot> jira [SEAMFACES-97] Use @Requires to conditionally disable the TransactionPhaseListener [Pull Request Sent (Unresolved) Enhancement, Minor, Dan Allen] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMFACES-97
[04:04:38] <jbossbot> git [faces] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/faces/compare/dc69563...f1fbf20
[04:07:10] *** daniel_hinojosa has joined #seam-dev
[04:12:10] <jbossbot> git [servlet] push temporary-logger-fix ed31721.. Dan Allen actually commit the files mentioned in the last commit
[04:12:10] <jbossbot> git [servlet] push temporary-logger-fix URL: http://github.com/seam/servlet/compare/5750bf9...ed31721
[04:13:08] <mojavelinux> ah, because the joda time support is optional in i18n
[04:13:22] <mojavelinux> meaning it activates when you add joda-time to the classpath
[04:13:26] <mojavelinux> as for why, i'm not sure
[04:13:35] <sbryzak> if it's missing you get a deployment exception
[04:13:41] <mojavelinux> that's a problem then
[04:13:42] <mojavelinux> bug
[04:13:59] <sbryzak> i've sent ken an e-mail, i'll see what he says
[04:14:21] <sbryzak> maybe it's as simple as adding a @Requires
[04:15:52] <jbossbot> git [servlet] push temporary-logger-fix c80b635.. Dan Allen typed logger isn't so broken, reenable
[04:15:53] <jbossbot> git [servlet] push temporary-logger-fix URL: http://github.com/seam/servlet/compare/ed31721...c80b635
[04:16:13] <mojavelinux> yeah, I thought he was adding that, perhaps he missed a spot or hasn't pushed it
[04:18:42] <sbryzak> lightguard_jp: do you remember what we did last time to fix the servlet/catch chicken/egg scenario?
[04:19:13] <lightguard_jp> We didn't build the example for release of Catch
[04:19:17] <lightguard_jp> Then we rebuilt it
[04:19:21] <lightguard_jp> with the example
[04:19:32] <sbryzak> ah
[04:20:18] <sbryzak> that seems like a messy thing to have to do for every single release
[04:21:42] *** bleathem has joined #seam-dev
[04:22:04] <johnament> there he is!
[04:22:29] <sbryzak> wow, it's almost the whole gang
[04:28:12] <mojavelinux> one of two things has to happen
[04:28:21] <mojavelinux> either the integration code needs to be a submodule of catch
[04:28:32] <mojavelinux> or the example of the integration needs to be with the module that provides the integration
[04:28:52] <mojavelinux> so right now, we do have exactly what we don't want
[04:29:01] <mojavelinux> which is the example and the integration seperated
[04:29:26] <mojavelinux> i think lightguard_jp had mentioned as much
[04:29:40] <lightguard_jp> Correct
[04:29:49] <lightguard_jp> The servlet example in catch really should be servlet
[04:29:59] <lightguard_jp> Of course that leaves catch w/o an example
[04:30:22] <bleathem> Catch could have a weld-se example
[04:30:32] <bleathem> Is that possible?
[04:30:38] <bleathem> Would be cool
[04:32:10] <lightguard_jp> Should be
[04:33:30] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master ac52454.. Dan Allen move marker annotations to impl
[04:33:30] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/solder/compare/e06a605...ac52454
[04:34:43] <bleathem> I just closed a pull request on github.
[04:34:46] <bleathem> I thought it was supposed to automatically resolve the jira issue when I do that.
[04:34:50] <bleathem> Am I mistaken?
[04:35:01] <mojavelinux> it should, I just fixed that today
[04:35:04] <mojavelinux> at least, I thought I did
[04:35:22] <bleathem> is it instantaneous?
[04:35:31] <lightguard_jp> ha, I doubt it
[04:35:44] <johnament> mojavelinux: can i still resolve JIRAs to ping the lead that he needs to wake up? :-)
[04:35:48] <lightguard_jp> fisheye / jira probably doesn't use git hooks
[04:36:04] <bleathem> ok
[04:36:06] <mojavelinux> oh, no
[04:36:07] <mojavelinux> hahaha
[04:36:11] <mojavelinux> that's a manual workflow step
[04:36:25] <johnament> resolving?
[04:36:49] <lightguard_jp> Should be automatic #lazy
[04:36:51] <mojavelinux> no, the "Pull Request Closed" workflow step in JIRA is a manual step that you do after you close the pull request for real
[04:36:56] <mojavelinux> because they aren't hooked up yet
[04:36:57] <bleathem> ok
[04:37:03] <mojavelinux> though that is supposedly in the works atm
[04:37:10] <mojavelinux> just talked to mr. newton about that yesterday
[04:37:21] <mojavelinux> it's a human process in jira atm
[04:37:22] <mojavelinux> :)
[04:37:41] <lightguard_jp> arquillian spi needs more type safety and docs
[04:37:42] <mojavelinux> yes, you can bang on whatever you need to to wake up the leads johnament
[04:37:50] <bleathem> keeps people employed
[04:37:51] <mojavelinux> but if they sleep like I do, you best just wait until they rise
[04:37:51] <bleathem> !
[04:37:52] <mojavelinux> hehehe
[04:38:07] <lightguard_jp> haha
[04:38:13] <lightguard_jp> Or keep them up all night
[04:38:44] <johnament> i just want a JMS release so I can use it for real at work!
[04:39:53] <mojavelinux> hahah we've got minions for that...we just seemed to have put them on the wrong bus
[04:40:04] <mojavelinux> now they are lost
[04:40:07] <sbryzak> right, new seam-bom going out shortly
[04:40:16] <sbryzak> the versions have been locked in
[04:40:22] <johnament> yay
[04:41:07] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master 7ee6505.. Shane Bryzak updated versions for next release
[04:41:07] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/dist/compare/2b49fc7...7ee6505
[04:43:50] <mojavelinux> "are those your final versions?"
[04:43:56] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master 2ddcb07.. Shane Bryzak bah, stupid vi
[04:43:56] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/dist/compare/7ee6505...2ddcb07
[04:44:03] <sbryzak> yes, final answer
[04:44:05] <johnament> haha
[04:44:05] <mojavelinux> "no, I need a life line!"
[04:44:14] <sbryzak> wait, i want to phone a friend
[04:44:16] <mojavelinux> "ask google"
[04:44:20] <lightguard_jp> sbryzak: Blastfamy! How dare you curse the great Vi
[04:44:24] <mojavelinux> hmm, do you really need any other life lines?
[04:44:34] <mojavelinux> I mean, what do they know that google can't tell you
[04:44:37] <lightguard_jp> mojavelinux: Dial Watson
[04:44:50] <sbryzak> lightguard_jp: richard stallman warns us to beware the mark of vivivi
[04:45:02] <gastaldi> lol !!!
[04:45:05] <lightguard_jp> sbryzak: That's why I use vim
[04:45:10] <mojavelinux> vim forever
[04:45:17] <gastaldi> Notepad++ forever
[04:45:37] <gastaldi> Sorry, I use windows  :)
[04:45:43] <mojavelinux> goodbye
[04:45:45] <mojavelinux> hahaha
[04:45:48] <gastaldi> hahaha
[04:46:01] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master ee050a8.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare release 3.0.0.CR3
[04:46:02] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/dist/compare/2ddcb07...ee050a8
[04:46:05] <mojavelinux> we don't use that word at jboss
[04:46:11] <gastaldi> I see
[04:46:13] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master 8c9ccc9.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare for next development iteration
[04:46:13] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/dist/compare/ee050a8...8c9ccc9
[04:46:13] <mojavelinux> of course, we don't use the word fedora either, mostly ubuntu
[04:46:17] <lightguard_jp> gastaldi: You have been voted off the island
[04:46:19] <lightguard_jp> Sorry
[04:46:21] <gastaldi> :P
[04:46:34] <mojavelinux> wait, come back!
[04:46:35] <lightguard_jp> mojavelinux: haha
[04:46:37] 
[04:46:38] <lightguard_jp> How sad it is
[04:46:42] <mojavelinux> if we don't have you, then there will be no one to convert ;)
[04:46:47] <lightguard_jp> *chirp*
[04:46:55] <gastaldi> lol
[04:47:00] <bleathem> jose_freitas ping
[04:47:18] <lightguard_jp> VIM = 1004
[04:47:26] <lightguard_jp> I'm sure there's some sort of joke there
[04:47:28] <gastaldi> not a choice of mine, but Ubuntu did not recognize my wifi adapter
[04:47:29] <mojavelinux> i've been perusing the code, and we have a literal crisis
[04:47:39] <mojavelinux> that sounds worse than it is :)
[04:47:52] <mojavelinux> the annotation literals seem to go in different packages in each module
[04:47:54] <lightguard_jp> Thank you Java
[04:48:03] <mojavelinux> I think we need some sort of guidance for this
[04:48:05] <lightguard_jp> Oh, just a package issue
[04:48:10] <mojavelinux> in solder, if it's a literal, it's all in the same bag
[04:48:11] <lightguard_jp> I thought we had some
[04:48:17] <lightguard_jp> Maybe it wasn't communicated well
[04:48:23] <gastaldi> hum
[04:48:24] <mojavelinux> i'm not quite sure I'm really sure
[04:48:31] <mojavelinux> i mean, where should they go?
[04:48:39] <mojavelinux> maybe they should just be adjacent to the annotation
[04:48:39] <gastaldi> I have the literals on impl and ann on api
[04:48:41] <mojavelinux> why not
[04:48:49] <mojavelinux> literals should be api too
[04:48:50] <sbryzak> seam-bom 3.0.0.CR3 released
[04:48:51] <gastaldi> on Seam JCR at least
[04:48:57] <mojavelinux> unless the annotation is an impl detail
[04:49:01] <johnament> mojavelinux: i've been curious about that one too.
[04:49:14] <mojavelinux> reason being, in cdi you often have to use the literal to do something like fire and event
[04:49:17] <johnament> even in the two modules i work on its completely different.
[04:49:26] <sbryzak> i think literals should be API, if the developer is expected to use them
[04:49:28] <mojavelinux> the reason we have a literal package in solder
[04:49:34] <mojavelinux> is because those are literals for annotations not in solder
[04:49:52] <mojavelinux> but I think for other modules, they should just be next to the annotation
[04:49:57] 
[04:49:58] <mojavelinux> because that's where you would want to find it anyway
[04:49:59] <lightguard_jp> sbryzak: +1
[04:50:07] <stuartdouglas> I think literals should be in the same package as the annotation
[04:50:08] <mojavelinux> which may be different than what we've had in the guidelines, I"m just thinking more about it
[04:50:14] <mojavelinux> excellent
[04:50:25] <mojavelinux> I think we have some clarity on this finally
[04:50:41] <gastaldi> In Seam JCR the literals are used when firing the JCR specific events, that should be fired only by the JCR impl
[04:50:44] <mojavelinux> and the "literal" package in solder is a special case, because it really is just a set of literals, the annotations are elsewhere
[04:50:48] <mojavelinux> of course, those will go away eventually
[04:50:55] <mojavelinux> when literals are put back into cdi api
[04:50:58] <mojavelinux> those literals at least
[04:51:06] <bleathem> mojavelinux take meeting notes!
[04:51:15] <gastaldi> yeah
[04:51:17] <gastaldi> open VI
[04:51:28] <lightguard_jp> #startmeeting
[04:51:30] <mojavelinux> so gastaldi that is an impl annotation and thus an impl literal likely
[04:51:33] <jbott> Meeting started Wed Mar 16 03:49:03 2011 UTC.  The chair is lightguard_jp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
[04:51:33] <jbott> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
[04:51:35] <mojavelinux> does the developer see that annotation?
[04:51:41] <lightguard_jp> #chair mojavelinux
[04:51:46] <jbott> Current chairs: lightguard_jp mojavelinux
[04:51:47] <gastaldi> yes
[04:51:50] <mojavelinux> oh geez, now I have nothing to say :)
[04:51:52] <bleathem> #idea literals should be in the same package as the annotation
[04:52:00] <mojavelinux> hehhee...okay, so if the annotation is in the api, literal should be in the api
[04:52:06] <mojavelinux> and literal should be adjacent to the annotation
[04:52:11] <gastaldi> agreed
[04:52:18] <bleathem> #help
[04:52:23] <jbossbot> git [persistence] push master 6122fbc.. Shane Bryzak updated seam-bom version, removed slf4j dependency
[04:52:23] <jbossbot> git [persistence] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/persistence/compare/2ece9e9...6122fbc
[04:52:24] <mojavelinux> and to repeat for the log, the literal package in solder is for annotations in the cdi api
[04:52:43] <bleathem> #agreed
[04:52:48] <lightguard_jp> #accept annotation literals will be in the same package as the annotation, and literals should be in the api, unless they are implementation only
[04:52:54] <mojavelinux> great, i'll update the guidelines...then you can shift around your literals when you get a chance...this will really clean up servlet and faces
[04:53:01] <mojavelinux> where literals are all over the damn place
[04:53:02] <mojavelinux> :)
[04:53:14] <gastaldi> Take Seam JCR for example as a "do not distribute literals"
[04:53:16] <mojavelinux> stink bomb, they all ran
[04:53:20] <gastaldi> in api
[04:53:25] <bleathem> ok, close the meetig.  I want to check those notes out!
[04:53:33] <lightguard_jp> #action Module leads should clean up literals in their modules to follow new guidelines
[04:53:41] <lightguard_jp> #endmeeting
[04:53:46] <jbott> Meeting ended Wed Mar 16 03:51:16 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
[04:53:46] <jbott> Minutes:        http://people.redhat.com/~manderse/irc.freenode.org/meetings/seam-dev/2011/seam-dev.2011-03-16-03.49.html
[04:53:46] <jbott> Minutes (text): http://people.redhat.com/~manderse/irc.freenode.org/meetings/seam-dev/2011/seam-dev.2011-03-16-03.49.txt
[04:53:46] <jbott> Log:            http://people.redhat.com/~manderse/irc.freenode.org/meetings/seam-dev/2011/seam-dev.2011-03-16-03.49.log.html
[04:54:11] <bleathem> that's awesome
[04:54:20] <lightguard_jp> :)
[04:54:21] <bleathem> very concise minutes!
[04:54:23] <lightguard_jp> Great tool
[04:54:24] <gastaldi> yeah, pretty cool
[04:54:48] <bleathem> Now I won't have to pay attention during the seam community meeting :P
[04:54:51] <mojavelinux> hell yes! see, this is what we need in the jboss community :)
[04:54:54] <mojavelinux> tools like that
[04:55:04] <lightguard_jp> All action items now go to bleathem :)
[04:55:09] <bleathem> haha
[04:55:09] <mojavelinux> hahaha
[04:55:17] <gastaldi> lol
[04:55:26] *** koentsje has joined #seam-dev
[04:55:34] <gastaldi> HELP is a goot item
[04:55:37] <gastaldi> good
[04:55:45] <mojavelinux> btw, I am pushing strongly for a centralized IRC log at jboss
[04:55:53] <mojavelinux> ludicrous that we dont' have one
[04:56:01] <bleathem> I wouldn't expect that to be a hard push
[04:56:10] <mojavelinux> some guy who I don't even know where the heck the server is tracks our logs
[04:56:14] <mojavelinux> I dont' even know why he tracks our logs
[04:56:20] <mojavelinux> just because someone told me to e-mail him
[04:56:21] <bleathem> lol
[04:56:32] <mojavelinux> and all of a sudden, we had logs
[04:56:38] <lightguard_jp> I think bleathem wanted #commands
[04:56:39] <mojavelinux> probably a 12 year old from sweden
[04:56:46] <bleathem> I read those logs often.  a valuable resourc3e
[04:56:54] <bleathem> #commands
[04:56:57] <mojavelinux> now, wouldn't it be cool if you could search them?
[04:57:01] <mojavelinux> and index them?
[04:57:05] <gastaldi> eah
[04:57:09] <gastaldi> Yeah
[04:57:10] <bleathem> google site:
[04:57:16] <bleathem> worksForMe
[04:57:22] <mojavelinux> that's true, until echewhatever just disappears one day
[04:57:35] <mojavelinux> all I"m saying is, throw some hardware at that problem
[04:57:41] <mojavelinux> that's what I'm lobbying for
[04:57:42] <bleathem> +1
[04:57:51] <gastaldi> put in the cloud
[04:57:56] <mojavelinux> "to the cloud!"
[04:57:57] <mojavelinux> hahaha
[04:58:00] <gastaldi> lol
[04:58:00] <mojavelinux> what does that even mean?
[04:58:18] <mojavelinux> I wish I could go to the cloud and there was a bunch of pirated television shows on that computer like in the commercial
[04:58:19] <mojavelinux> hahaha
[04:58:38] <bleathem> Ask Larry Ellison about the cloud.  Apparently he know what it's all about
[04:58:56] <bleathem> At least that was the message at Java One :P
[04:59:15] <gastaldi> hehehe
[05:00:13] <gastaldi> #commands
[05:00:38] <gastaldi> oh, I think a meeting should be started to use that
[05:00:54] <gastaldi> I mean, to see what #commands does
[05:01:00] <mojavelinux> I gotta say, I dig the module handbook
[05:01:05] <mojavelinux> that's really paid off
[05:01:25] <mojavelinux> http://seamframework.org/Seam3/ModuleHandbook
[05:01:33] <lightguard_jp> http://meetbot.debian.net/Manual.html
[05:01:37] <lightguard_jp> For those interested
[05:01:50] <gastaldi> thanks
[05:02:08] <gastaldi> mojavelinux and lightguard_jp
[05:03:11] <sbryzak> oh crap
[05:03:25] <sbryzak> something bad has happened, and i blame vi again
[05:03:32] <jbossbot> git [faces] push master 597da8b.. joserodolfofreitas SEAMFACES-57: Use InputElement<T> instead of @InputField for injection of form input
[05:03:33] 
[05:03:33] <jbossbot> git [faces] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/faces/compare/f1fbf20...597da8b
[05:04:30] <johnament> as long as you blame Bram Moolenaar you're fine
[05:04:52] <sbryzak> i need to do another seam-bom release, sorry
[05:05:19] <bleathem> I think I finally have a commit message strategy I like
[05:05:22] <gastaldi> johnament: Any tips for solving the bizarre test of Seam JCR in Hudson ?
[05:05:41] <bleathem> or maybe it's in the module handbook, guess I should look at that!
[05:06:05] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master ac373d8.. Shane Bryzak fix versions
[05:06:05] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/dist/compare/8c9ccc9...ac373d8
[05:06:35] <sbryzak> mojavelinux: do you know if it's possible to nuke stuff from nexus after it's already been released?
[05:06:45] <johnament> sbryzak: <seam.jms.version>3.0.0.Beta1</seam.jms.version> looks wrong
[05:06:56] <mojavelinux> yes, you e-mail Paul
[05:07:00] <mojavelinux> and he can remove
[05:07:04] <mojavelinux> he has special powers
[05:07:04] <sbryzak> johnament: it is wrong, vi reverted my version updates
[05:07:18] <sbryzak> ugh, how about we just go to CR4 for the bom
[05:07:27] <mojavelinux> sure, who's counting?
[05:07:33] <sbryzak> i'm not if you aren't
[05:07:56] <mojavelinux> we didn't tweet it, so it didn't happen
[05:07:58] <mojavelinux> hahah
[05:07:58] <johnament> sbryzak: ok. we're still on alpha1 though... :-)
[05:08:20] <mojavelinux> no, see that's not how it works...we update the version in the bom
[05:08:23] <mojavelinux> and fairies come
[05:08:27] <bleathem> mojavelinux: from the manual, this sticks out:
[05:08:28] <mojavelinux> and deliver the software
[05:08:29] <bleathem> Fields should be private, including injection points
[05:08:33] <sbryzak> johnament: you mean for jcr don't you?
[05:08:40] <bleathem> I thought injection points should be package private
[05:08:56] <johnament> sbryzak: jcr has no release.  JMS has an alpha1 that doesn't work on AS6, Glassfish 3.0.1 or 3.1.
[05:08:56] <mojavelinux> nope, private
[05:09:04] <mojavelinux> originally, we were going to go with package private
[05:09:17] <bleathem> ok
[05:09:20] <mojavelinux> but it turns out, putting tests in the same package as the code is actually not good for Arquillian tests
[05:09:32] <bleathem> I must be remembering the older conversation
[05:09:33] <mojavelinux> so, we lose that feature anyway, and now there is really no difference
[05:09:40] <mojavelinux> yep, we were all over the place
[05:09:43] <sbryzak> johnament: hmm, there doesn't actually seem to even be an alpha1 in the repository
[05:09:50] <bleathem> needed minutes :P
[05:09:50] <mojavelinux> don't worry, we are the crazy ones
[05:10:00] <mojavelinux> alpha1 is in central
[05:10:07] <stuartdouglas> its bad for other reasons as well, especially if the component is proxied
[05:10:11] <mojavelinux> that was before the great depature
[05:10:15] <mojavelinux> which we shall not speak of
[05:10:27] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master 3abe88a.. Shane Bryzak fix seam-jms version
[05:10:28] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/dist/compare/ac373d8...3abe88a
[05:10:29] <sbryzak> i'll bump it back to alpha1 anyway
[05:10:48] <mojavelinux> it's bad to have it package private, right stuart?
[05:11:03] 
[05:11:10] <gastaldi> Is that ok ?
[05:11:10] <bleathem> mojavelinux, what's the deal with SEAMFACES-75?
[05:11:11] <stuartdouglas> yea, it should just be private
[05:11:12] <jbossbot> jira [SEAMFACES-75] Messages not displayed [Open (Unresolved) Bug, Major, Dan Allen] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMFACES-75
[05:11:19] <mojavelinux> excellent, so there are your minutes
[05:11:23] <johnament> sbryzak: that's just bizarre, as it's up on sourceforge
[05:11:40] <sbryzak> johnament: yeah, mojavelinux pointed out that alpha1 was released to maven central
[05:11:41] <bleathem> ok , thanks
[05:11:44] <sbryzak> before the great schism
[05:11:45] <bleathem> private it will be
[05:11:58] <bleathem> What departure/schism?
[05:12:06] <stuartdouglas> package private methods/constructors are also a pain with proxying, as if the proxy is loaded by the wrong CL they don't work properly
[05:12:07] <mojavelinux> we realized that in fact jboss was the center of the software universe
[05:12:15] <mojavelinux> and that central was revolving around us :)
[05:12:22] <jbossbot> git [jcr] push master 36ccb0e.. George Gastaldi Added Thread.sleep before assertions
[05:12:22] <jbossbot> git [jcr] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/jcr/compare/1b7731c...36ccb0e
[05:12:40] <johnament> mojavelinux: so that's when jboss became larger than the entire maven central repo?
[05:12:49] <mojavelinux> joking aside, the problem was that sonatype kept changing the rules and oracle wouldn't publish javax apis to central
[05:12:52] <mojavelinux> so we said f-it
[05:13:01] <mojavelinux> and just put seam and weld in jboss nexus
[05:13:04] <gastaldi> correct
[05:13:06] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master f30bf44.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare release 3.0.0.CR4
[05:13:06] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/dist/compare/3abe88a...f30bf44
[05:13:15] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master 37c3ba2.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare for next development iteration
[05:13:15] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/dist/compare/f30bf44...37c3ba2
[05:13:25] <mojavelinux> exactly, so we just said, fine, we'll assimilate central
[05:13:35] 
[05:13:49] <johnament> gastaldi: the thread.sleep is in there because modeshape runs everything on a background thread.
[05:13:52] <bleathem> mojavelinux: at one point, you said SEAMFACES-75 was waiting for some changes to the Messages API (I think I have that right)
[05:13:54] <jbossbot> jira [SEAMFACES-75] Messages not displayed [Open (Unresolved) Bug, Major, Dan Allen] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMFACES-75
[05:13:54] <sbryzak> wow the releases are flying out today
[05:13:59] <bleathem> are those chagnes now in place?
[05:13:59] <gastaldi> yeah, I know
[05:14:01] <mojavelinux> in truth, this particular issue was because certain individuals don't have their head on straight
[05:14:02] <johnament> gastaldi: so we give it a few seconds to finish up.
[05:14:04] <sbryzak> i wonder if we can hit CR5 before midnight
[05:14:20] <johnament> it's past on the east coat.
[05:14:21] <johnament> coast
[05:14:27] <johnament> unless you mean midnight aussie time
[05:14:31] <sbryzak> i'm in the future
[05:14:35] <gastaldi> lol
[05:14:51] <gastaldi> Did I already asked u to tell me the lottery winning numbers ?
[05:15:00] <sbryzak> yeah how did they work out for you
[05:15:11] <gastaldi> no good :(
[05:15:19] <mojavelinux> SEAMFACES-75 is likely out of date
[05:15:21] <jbossbot> jira [SEAMFACES-75] Messages not displayed [Open (Unresolved) Bug, Major, Dan Allen] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMFACES-75
[05:15:29] <mojavelinux> because messages worked just grand for me in booking all day today
[05:15:29] <sbryzak> right, 3.0.0.CR4 is released
[05:15:33] <sbryzak> please update accordingly
[05:15:35] <mojavelinux> I even got some messages I didn't ask for
[05:15:42] <mojavelinux> thanks to Mojarra complaining about something
[05:16:23] <bleathem> ok, should I close it then?
[05:16:53] <mojavelinux> I would say it was resolved upstream (but what, we don't know, but it just magically fixed itself)
[05:17:07] <bleathem> (It'll put me past the halfway point for issues fixed for Final)
[05:17:15] <mojavelinux> awesome, do it
[05:17:23] <bleathem> Ok, I'll close it.  We can re-open it if the problem is indeed not fixed.
[05:18:36] <bleathem> mojavelinux, if you get a moment, you could check the issues I bumped to future versions of Faces
[05:18:49] <bleathem> I did a bit of triage while you were at jFocus
[05:19:02] <bleathem> Most of those issues predate me
[05:19:19] <mojavelinux> yeah, sorry about that...the good news is that I could probably give you the necessary background on them all
[05:19:20] <jbossbot> git [config] push master d3859ee.. Shane Bryzak update seam-bom version
[05:19:20] <jbossbot> git [config] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/config/compare/601ac97...d3859ee
[05:19:21] <bleathem> but I cherry picked what seemed like a good fit for Fianl
[05:19:34] <mojavelinux> since I've been hanging around this corner for a while
[05:19:41] <bleathem> indeed!
[05:19:47] * gastaldi is waiting for Hudson to build Seam JCR CI again
[05:20:12] <bleathem> There are still a bunch of unscheduled issues I need to go over more closely.
[05:20:32] <bleathem> I hope to get to that post Final
[05:20:33] *** koentsje has quit IRC
[05:20:46] <bleathem> if I'm not to busy preparing for JUDCon :}
[05:20:52] <bleathem> ^too
[05:21:39] <gastaldi> gotta go now
[05:21:49] 
[05:21:56] <mojavelinux> I absolutely love that git is smart enough to recognize a commit that you sent in when pulling down changes
[05:22:07] <mojavelinux> svn would just be like "conflict!" someone made the same change
[05:22:11] <mojavelinux> duh, it was me svn
[05:22:18] <mojavelinux> who is you? svn asks
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[05:22:46] <mojavelinux> smart enough to recognize your own commit that is
[05:22:49] <sbryzak> svn is so dumb
[05:23:15] <bleathem> svn was really bright in his day, he just has alzymers now
[05:23:19] <bleathem> old man that he is
[05:24:10] <mojavelinux> yes, we find him walking in the woods talking to the trunks
[05:24:28] <mojavelinux> bleathem: FacesAnnotationsAdapterExtension has sop in it
[05:25:01] <mojavelinux> can you switch that to a log (definitely a dirty bomb that was left for you from those previous maintainers)
[05:25:02] <bleathem> what's a sop?
[05:25:05] <mojavelinux> system.out.println
[05:25:12] <bleathem> oh
[05:25:15] <bleathem> yes, I see that
[05:25:15] <johnament> everyone should just go back to using SCCS
[05:25:39] <bleathem> looking at the author tag on FacesAnnotationsAdapterExtension ...
[05:25:44] <bleathem> tsk. tsk.
[05:25:51] <bleathem> lol
[05:25:56] <mojavelinux> slacker
[05:26:30] <mojavelinux> I think that code was literally copied from a slidedeck in the pre-Seam 3.0 days
[05:26:34] <mojavelinux> :)
[05:26:58] <mojavelinux> that might have been the first seam extension
[05:27:25] <bleathem> Presentation software makes for a poor IDE
[05:27:48] <sbryzak> we're about to have our first module final release
[05:27:56] <mojavelinux> btw
[05:27:57] <sbryzak> i think stuartdouglas should get some kind of prize
[05:28:02] <mojavelinux> that class could benefit from some soldering
[05:28:19] <bleathem> mojavelinux, I had a question about the FacesAnnotationsAdapterExtension a while back
[05:28:36] <mojavelinux> like I said, that predated weld extensions
[05:28:52] <mojavelinux> that's what extension code would look like w/o solder
[05:28:58] <mojavelinux> good example for a slide even today :)
[05:29:21] <johnament> which one's that? config?
[05:29:22] <bleathem> can't remember the details,
[05:30:00] <mojavelinux> stuart deserves a lot of prizes ... I can't believe he's coming to judcon
[05:30:05] <mojavelinux> stuart are you going to make the trip?
[05:30:11] <bleathem> ah forget it. can't rebuild the question right now
[05:31:16] <stuartdouglas> mojavelinux: Not sure, depends if I can get funding
[05:31:26] <sbryzak> i just had an interesting thought
[05:31:31] <stuartdouglas> also it is like two days after I get back from holidays that were booked before I started with redhat
[05:31:36] <sbryzak> perhaps we should release a seam-bom 3.0.0.Final now
[05:31:58] <sbryzak> no wait, that wouldn't work
[05:31:59] <mojavelinux> we have a airfare jar for aslak, perhaps we can start one for you too
[05:32:10] <mojavelinux> judcon is a holiday
[05:32:15] <mojavelinux> so there should be no problem with that :)
[05:32:18] <mojavelinux> just extending it
[05:33:43] <mojavelinux> sorry, I created another jira for you bleathem
[05:33:49] <mojavelinux> but that way, one less thing for me to remember
[05:33:54] <mojavelinux> and I'm way past my 7 things
[05:35:21] <bleathem> will do
[05:36:50] <sbryzak> ok we have a slight problem with versions
[05:37:05] <sbryzak> just discussed with stuart
[05:37:13] <sbryzak> we can't release any final versions of anything yet
[05:37:27] <sbryzak> all the final releases have to be done in one go
[05:37:43] <mojavelinux> if someone can find something wrong with seam faces, you get to be SEAMFACES-100
[05:37:54] <mojavelinux> that's right, it doesn't exist yet jbossbot
[05:38:02] <sbryzak> unfortunately that means we need another seam-bom
[05:38:26] <mojavelinux> however, bleathem might lynch you
[05:38:30] <mojavelinux> so I can't be blamed for that
[05:38:32] <bleathem> I could create an issue to address the code formatting change
[05:38:44] <bleathem> but then I would have to lynch myself :P
[05:38:50] <mojavelinux> perfect
[05:39:28] <mojavelinux> wait, no, then we will have no more module lead again
[05:39:56] <mojavelinux> we'll give you something to pound on
[05:40:01] <mojavelinux> maven
[05:40:24] <sbryzak> so.. next version for *all* modules will be CR2
[05:40:26] <bleathem> maven is always good for a pounding!
[05:41:47] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master c5ad7a2.. Shane Bryzak update module versions...again
[05:41:48] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/dist/compare/37c3ba2...c5ad7a2
[05:42:12] <bleathem> I'm the proud owner of a brand new SEAMFACES-100
[05:42:13] <jbossbot> jira [SEAMFACES-100] Reformat the source code to use the new code format rules [Open (Unresolved) Task, Major, Brian Leathem] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMFACES-100
[05:42:26] <mojavelinux> boom! new landmark
[05:42:31] <mojavelinux> first 100 issue for a module
[05:42:45] <mojavelinux> 3 figures, moving up in the world
[05:42:48] <bleathem> a rather dubious achievement :P
[05:42:56] <mojavelinux> it's all ideas, that's what you tell them
[05:43:08] <mojavelinux> actually, it's a trademark of mr. baxter
[05:43:16] <mojavelinux> forge is already up to 65 issues
[05:43:24] <mojavelinux> he thinks in issues
[05:43:27] <bleathem> Jira is good for tracking thought
[05:43:37] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master 0313451.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare release 3.0.0.CR5
[05:43:38] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/dist/compare/c5ad7a2...0313451
[05:43:47] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master fd74210.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare for next development iteration
[05:43:47] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/dist/compare/0313451...fd74210
[05:43:48] <johnament> SEAMFORGE-65
[05:43:49] <jbossbot> jira [SEAMFORGE-65] Provide ability to reference project settings through EL in Default @Option params: [Open (Unresolved) Feature Request, Major, Unassigned] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMFORGE-65
[05:44:19] <johnament> jbossbot needs a command PROJECTNAME-list
[05:44:21] <bleathem> You'll know when I've finally fully grokked Faces when the jira count starts to climb again!
[05:44:51] <johnament> or when the number starts going in reverse?
[05:44:55] <stuartdouglas> how is the seam managed transactions / view based configuration going?
[05:44:57] <johnament> next issue will be SEAMFACES-99
[05:44:59] <jbossbot> jira [SEAMFACES-99] FacesAnnotationsAdapterExtension should use AnnotatedTypeBuilder [Open (Unresolved) Enhancement, Minor, Unassigned] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMFACES-99
[05:45:11] <johnament> ohhh
[05:45:18] <johnament> bleathem: seammanaged is in solder now
[05:45:43] <bleathem> sbryzak, you mean SEAMFACES-33?
[05:45:44] <jbossbot> jira [SEAMFACES-33] Create a solution for consolidated page-flow, transactional control, security constraints and URL-rewriting configuration [Open (Unresolved) Feature Request, Blocker, Stuart Douglas] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMFACES-33
[05:45:58] <bleathem> sorry, stuartdougls, not sbryzak
[05:46:06] <bleathem> ahh, whatever
[05:46:10] <sbryzak> yes, that's what stuart meant
[05:46:40] <sbryzak> seam-bom 3.0.0.CR5 is out, someone put me out of my misery
[05:46:52] <johnament> why is there a CR5?
[05:46:54] <sbryzak> i promise i'll try not to release any more today
[05:46:54] <bleathem> Haven't gotten to that one yet stuart.  Been picking at some of the low hanging fruit.
[05:47:06] <sbryzak> johnament: see my revelation above
[05:47:15] <johnament> oh about final?
[05:47:17] <bleathem> Will get there soon.  Maybe this weekend.
[05:47:24] <sbryzak> basically, we can't have any modules going final yet until they're all ready
[05:47:37] <johnament> so i take it, we shouldn't build anything against this bom yet, right?
[05:47:41] <sbryzak> because a final module will have to import the 3.0.0.Final seam-bom
[05:48:00] <johnament> that it will.
[05:48:10] <sbryzak> and besides not existing yet (not an insurmountable problem), if it did exist it would import final versions of modules that aren't final
[05:48:12] <johnament> so the first final has to be seam-bom-final?
[05:48:13] <bleathem> I've got an extra week now, very happy about that!
[05:48:18] <sbryzak> and so we need to do a synchronized final release
[05:48:26] <sbryzak> johnament: yes
[05:49:33] <sbryzak> sorry about the messing around, but coordinating a seam release is like playing jenga
[05:50:12] <johnament> why i shouldn't write jiras late at night.. "Events are firected incorrectly for UUID and non public properties"
[05:50:31] <bleathem> sounds painful
[05:50:55] <sbryzak> bleathem: i've assigned SEAMFACES-33 to you, could you consult with stuart to work out how to implement it?
[05:50:56] <jbossbot> jira [SEAMFACES-33] Create a solution for consolidated page-flow, transactional control, security constraints and URL-rewriting configuration [Open (Unresolved) Feature Request, Blocker, Brian Leathem] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMFACES-33
[05:51:12] <bleathem> will do
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[05:51:19] <sbryzak> bleathem: awesome, thanks :)
[05:51:25] <bleathem> I'm geting the impression it's an important issue :P
[05:51:32] <sbryzak> it's a blocker
[05:52:55] <bleathem> I'm almost done Seamfaces-24, I'll tackle 33 next.
[05:53:04] <sbryzak> great
[05:54:10] <mojavelinux> wow, I go away for a second and it just gets crazy in here
[05:54:24] <jbossbot> git [config] push master fa374f6.. Shane Bryzak update seam-bom version
[05:54:24] <jbossbot> git [config] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/config/compare/d3859ee...fa374f6
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[05:56:38] <bleathem> I've got a lot of documentation to write.
[05:56:45] <jbossbot> git [security] push master fcd28d4.. Shane Bryzak documentation improvements
[05:56:45] <jbossbot> git [security] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/security/compare/72b4a66...fcd28d4
[05:56:49] <bleathem> Lots of little convenience features have gone in to Faces lately
[05:56:57] <bleathem> they need to be documented to be useful
[05:57:19] <lightguard_jp> mojavelinux: Yeah, I feel the same way
[05:57:30] <lightguard_jp> Step away and there's 15 min of back log to read
[05:57:56] <bleathem> mojavelinux lightguard_jp twitter has been like that for me lately.  I've stopped reading the backlog.
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[05:59:39] <bleathem> I javadoc, if I refer to an external class, should I fully qualify it with it's package name?
[05:59:43] <jbossbot> git [config] push master 38cc674.. Stuart Douglas SEAMXML-36 Add glassfish instructions
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[05:59:45] <jbossbot> jira [SEAMXML-36] princess-rescue example does not work on glassfish 3.1 [Open (Unresolved) Bug, Major, Unassigned] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMXML-36
[05:59:45] <jbossbot> git [config] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/config/compare/fa374f6...38cc674
[05:59:55] <mojavelinux> I can help with docs...that's sort of where I end up when I'm working on presentations and articles...I end up putting it back into docs anyway
[06:00:05] <mojavelinux> I just need to get some of what I'm currently trying to do done :)
[06:00:33] <mojavelinux> my rule of thumb is avoid an import if it's just for javadoc
[06:00:38] <bleathem> Yeah, I was thinking that putting together my JUDCon presentation would seed a lot of the docs
[06:00:39] <mojavelinux> but if it's already imported, just refer to it
[06:01:05] <johnament> general JMS question to throw out there - is it ok if I say that Seam JMS will not support injection into MDBs?
[06:01:15] <bleathem> k, thkx
[06:01:57] <mojavelinux> wow, that's cool!
[06:02:02] <mojavelinux> the annotation processor for typed loggers
[06:02:07] <mojavelinux> is portable to any logging library
[06:02:28] <mojavelinux> we use jboss logging in solder, but you could in theory use it to generated typed loggers of your choice
[06:02:31] <mojavelinux> kind of a cool thing
[06:02:47] <johnament> that is cool
[06:02:49] <stuartdouglas_> johnament: I thought injection into MDB's was welds job
[06:03:22] <johnament> stuartdouglas_: the problem comes in to attempting to inject JMS Sessions into the MDBs... they don't like each other then.
[06:03:38] <johnament> i think it's a transaction issue personally
[06:03:48] <stuartdouglas_> What error are you getting?
[06:04:01] <johnament> I didn't, Martin did though the other day
[06:05:27] <johnament> http://pastebin.com/hwRe9Gpr
[06:05:58] <johnament> hmm wait that's not it
[06:06:41] <jbossbot> git [config] push master f44144f.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare release 3.0.0.CR2
[06:06:41] <jbossbot> git [config] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/config/compare/38cc674...f44144f
[06:06:52] <jbossbot> git [config] push master 7737894.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare for next development iteration
[06:06:52] <jbossbot> git [config] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/config/compare/f44144f...7737894
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[06:14:33] <bleathem> I was hoping there would be a session on Solder at JUDCon
[06:14:54] <bleathem> I could really use a 10,000 foot overview of that particular module
[06:15:34] <stuartdouglas_> I was going to submit one, but I only thought of it the day before, and did not get it done in time
[06:15:55] <sbryzak> i don't think i'd stay awake for a solder presentation
[06:16:05] <bleathem> lol
[06:16:18] <bleathem> probably very true!
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[06:16:32] <stuartdouglas_> I think a preso on how you can use portable extensions to extend java ee would be good
[06:16:43] <mojavelinux> there is a solder presentation
[06:16:45] <mojavelinux> mine :)
[06:16:53] <mojavelinux> it's called....
[06:16:53] <bleathem> Same time as mine :P
[06:16:56] <jbossbot> git [persistence] push master a2511c8.. Shane Bryzak update seam-bom
[06:16:56] <jbossbot> git [persistence] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/persistence/compare/6122fbc...a2511c8
[06:16:59] <mojavelinux> oh, I"m goign to get that fixed
[06:17:06] <mojavelinux> don't worry, I wouldn't do that to you
[06:17:13] <bleathem> lol
[06:17:23] <bleathem> I'd have an empty room!
[06:17:24] <mojavelinux> Hacking Java EE: CDI extension n00b to l33t in 60 minutes
[06:17:35] <johnament> no more solder dependencies?
[06:17:44] <sbryzak> i've got a jbug talk in one hour, and i haven't prepared it yet
[06:18:02] <mojavelinux> you've been preparing for months, you just don't know it yet :)
[06:18:19] <sbryzak> i'll tell them how i can do maven releases with my eyes closed
[06:18:26] <johnament> sbryzak: tonight's lesson: how to have multiple maven releases in a single afternoon
[06:19:28] <mojavelinux> thanks to ken and james, typed loggers and message bundles have escaped the touch of the vaporware reaper
[06:19:49] <sbryzak> i'm really impressed with how they came through
[06:20:00] <sbryzak> i honestly wasn't expecting it
[06:20:25] <mojavelinux> yeah, we leaned on that pretty hard, and they just smoked it
[06:22:00] <lightguard_jp> Is there an example in any of the modules that deploys to glassfish?
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[06:25:44] <mojavelinux> We should offer a way to stub out the Logger injections in test code, because people run into that *all the time*. To go a step further, we should make that stub a capturing logger so that test code can validate that messages were logged. Just see the comment in the logger tests that says "manually consult the log". #fail See this test for an idea of what I'm talking about: https://github.com/glaforge/gaelyk/blob/master/
[06:25:49] <mojavelinux> booking deploys to glassfish
[06:25:55] <mojavelinux> provided you use my branch of seam-servlet
[06:26:06] <mojavelinux> I haven't tested anything else
[06:26:14] <mojavelinux> though the REST example should
[06:26:25] <lightguard_jp> Yeah that's what I used
[06:26:28] <mojavelinux> because it just depends on Solder which is kosher w/ glassfish
[06:29:21] <jbossbot> git [persistence] push master 8a30d70.. Shane Bryzak fix xml error
[06:29:21] <jbossbot> git [persistence] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/persistence/compare/a2511c8...8a30d70
[06:30:47] <mojavelinux> "1 of your commits was merged into faces!" we need to get whatever bot is running on seam-faces github
[06:30:51] <mojavelinux> to be on all the commits
[06:30:54] <mojavelinux> all the modules
[06:31:02] <mojavelinux> right now you get a message from Pete via a bot
[06:31:29] <mojavelinux> pete sent me the link at some point
[06:32:17] <mojavelinux> Here is the project to set it up https://github.com/maniksurtani/github-emailhook
[06:35:38] <mojavelinux> bleathem: the InputElement that jose implemented is a great start
[06:36:25] <bleathem> indeed, I'm happy to have a contributor to the project.
[06:36:44] <mojavelinux> one enhancement to that could be, but not absolutely required, is to shift from a dependent-scoped producer to a scoped producer
[06:36:45] <bleathem> We'll have to get him hooked on the next issue!
[06:36:59] <mojavelinux> to have a scoped producer per injection point, you have to use the narrowing bean facility of solder
[06:37:07] <mojavelinux> you can see it implemented in the LoggerExtension
[06:37:15] <bleathem> I'll have a look
[06:37:16] <mojavelinux> it basically creates a new producer method for every injection point
[06:37:28] <mojavelinux> it's pretty interesting...you may not need it for this case, but it's good to know when you need it
[06:37:39] <mojavelinux> well, not for every injection point
[06:37:48] <mojavelinux> new producer for every injection point type
[06:37:53] <bleathem> don't have the solder source on hand
[06:38:04] <mojavelinux> so instead of one producer for InputElement<String> and InputElement<Number>, you end up with two
[06:38:06] <jbossbot> git [persistence] push master b022799.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare release 3.0.0.CR2
[06:38:06] <jbossbot> git [persistence] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/persistence/compare/8a30d70...b022799
[06:38:17] <jbossbot> git [persistence] push master e149eb8.. Shane Bryzak [maven-release-plugin] prepare for next development iteration
[06:38:18] <jbossbot> git [persistence] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/persistence/compare/b022799...e149eb8
[06:38:25] <bleathem> hmm, not sure I get it.
[06:38:30] <mojavelinux> but you can also go a step futher
[06:38:35] <mojavelinux> and have a producer for every injection point
[06:38:36] <bleathem> Let me look at the solder docs
[06:38:42] <mojavelinux> that way, the product is unique to the injection point
[06:38:57] <mojavelinux> I can break it down for you simpler
[06:39:02] <mojavelinux> let's say I have two injection points
[06:39:06] <mojavelinux> @Inject Number one;
[06:39:13] <mojavelinux> @Inject String str;
[06:39:20] <mojavelinux> and one producer
[06:39:28] <mojavelinux> @Produces Object getProduct() { ... }
[06:39:36] <mojavelinux> normally, the one producer will serve both injection points
[06:39:42] <mojavelinux> however, if the producer is scoped
[06:39:46] <mojavelinux> then you have a problem
[06:39:53] <mojavelinux> because it's only going to be used once
[06:40:01] <mojavelinux> with the solder extension
[06:40:14] <mojavelinux> you use the producer as a prototype
[06:40:32] <mojavelinux> to create additional producers that are "shaped" to fit the injection point
[06:40:38] <mojavelinux> so, you could effectively create
[06:40:45] <mojavelinux> @Produces String getProduct() {}
[06:40:51] <mojavelinux> @Produces Number getProduct() {}
[06:40:56] <mojavelinux> dynamically
[06:41:03] <mojavelinux> and you can do that as much as you want
[06:41:09] <bleathem> ok
[06:41:12] <mojavelinux> like to whatever degree you want
[06:41:23] <mojavelinux> you can even add qualiiers at the injection point and on the producer
[06:41:26] <mojavelinux> so you create new linkages
[06:41:39] <mojavelinux> new unique linkages
[06:41:47] <mojavelinux> this will be necessary
[06:41:55] <mojavelinux> if we want to be able to do something like
[06:42:08] <mojavelinux> @Inject UIForm form;
[06:42:39] <mojavelinux> I mean, there are other ways too, that's the thing with extensions, you can come up with lots of different solutions
[06:43:00] <mojavelinux> but one way is to generate producers that fit all your injection points
[06:43:01] <bleathem> so right now we have:
[06:43:04] <bleathem> @Produces
[06:43:06] <bleathem>    @Dependent
[06:43:07] <bleathem>    @InputField
[06:43:09] <bleathem>    public Object getInputFieldValue
[06:43:11] <mojavelinux> @Dependent isn't needed
[06:43:55] <bleathem> and with this solder extension, we get...
[06:44:29] <bleathem> we can scope it, and still have it satisfy multiple injection points
[06:45:14] <bleathem> I'm looking at the solder docs, what's this called?  What should I be looking for?
[06:46:33] <mojavelinux> yeah, the docs don't exist :(
[06:47:05] <mojavelinux> though I've covered it enough in talks I could probably write docs...so -> jira
[06:47:27] <mojavelinux> but yes, with the Solder extension it's as though you have producers for each type that is going to be produced
[06:47:33] <mojavelinux> if you set it up right in an extension
[06:48:11] <mojavelinux> another enhancement for the input element is to make sure that the type that's converted is going to match the type in the generic...though it's going to fail one way or another if it's wrong
[06:48:17] <mojavelinux> so I guess we'll see how it goes
[06:48:34] <mojavelinux> one of those...well, it isn't really type safe, you are just trusting the user knows what the heck he/she is doing kind of things
[06:49:16] <bleathem> agreed.  Better if we can catch it at compile time somehow
[06:50:28] <mojavelinux> there's not much we can do, but tooling could
[06:50:40] <mojavelinux> the problem is, the java code doesnt' know what is in the template
[06:50:49] <sbryzak> CR2 releases for config and persistence modules are done
[06:50:52] <mojavelinux> but if we reference the validator in the UI, then the tooling can make sure that everything wires up
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[06:52:12] <bleathem> mojavelinux, do you have any suggestions for SEAMFACES-96?
[06:52:14] <jbossbot> jira [SEAMFACES-96] Disable Abstractlistener when JSF application is shutting down [Open (Unresolved) Bug, Major, Unassigned] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMFACES-96
[06:52:45] <bleathem> Is there a "good" way to handle this?  I put a suggested approach in the description
[06:53:10] <bleathem> (I just got reminded of it while undeploying my test app to JBoss AS 6...)
[06:54:42] <mojavelinux> do you know what event JSF is sending at that time
[06:54:53] <mojavelinux> it could be that whatever event it is, we arent' interested in that event
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[06:55:07] <mojavelinux> of course, if it's a shutdown event, and CDI is already gone at that point
[06:55:14] <bleathem> Maybe it's the preshutdown event
[06:55:23] <mojavelinux> then we have to assume that we just can't support putting that on the CDI bus
[06:55:48] <mojavelinux> and say that in the docs, sorry guys, that event isn't going to be available to CDI because of non-speced ordering issues of shutdown, go about it another way
[06:55:56] <mojavelinux> so see what the event is
[06:56:01] <bleathem> So should just filter out the event?
[06:56:09] <sbryzak> mojavelinux: btw you have 2 staging repositories in nexus, i think they're pretty old
[06:56:10] <bleathem> Makes sense
[06:56:13] <mojavelinux> if it's the shudown event, try to get the BeanManager (there is a method to safetly check)
[06:56:17] <mojavelinux> and if it's not there, then just skip it
[06:56:28] <bleathem> ok
[06:56:39] <bleathem> sounds non-intrusive
[06:56:49] <sbryzak> off to jbug, later guys
[06:57:01] <lightguard_jp> mojavelinux: Does booking have any servlets?
[06:57:02] <bleathem> knock 'em dead!
[06:57:12] <bleathem> (I love that expression)
[06:57:27] <bleathem> sbryzak: knock 'em dead!
[06:57:38] <bleathem> to be clear
[06:57:41] <mojavelinux> i killed them, that was went nexus was crashing on me
[06:57:52] <mojavelinux> yes, booking has servlets
[06:58:25] <lightguard_jp> grab your repo and build?
[06:58:31] <lightguard_jp> any special profiles?
[06:58:38] <mojavelinux> nope, just mvn install
[06:58:55] <mojavelinux> fix-typed-loggers branch (or somethign like that)
[06:59:06] <lightguard_jp> Okay, where is it?
[06:59:16] <lightguard_jp> faces?
[07:00:04] <mojavelinux> oh, wait a minute, I totally read that wrong
[07:00:09] <mojavelinux> getting a little blurry eyed here
[07:00:14] <mojavelinux> does booking have servlets, no
[07:00:19] <mojavelinux> booking does not have servlets
[07:00:24] <lightguard_jp> suck
[07:01:33] <lightguard_jp> Were to get a war with servlets (and not have to create one)
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[07:05:19] <bleathem> I guess the abstract validator and converter should go in API eh?
[07:05:39] <bleathem> for SEAMFACES-24
[07:05:41] <jbossbot> jira [SEAMFACES-24] Provide convenience classes for Validators/Converters [Open (Unresolved) Feature Request, Major, Brian Leathem] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMFACES-24
[07:06:02] <bleathem> given that the developers would want to code against them
[07:10:46] <mojavelinux> alsak already has $100 in airfare funding
[07:11:03] <mojavelinux> stuart, i'll keep fighting for you
[07:11:09] <mojavelinux> though we may need to steal from aslak's fund
[07:11:10] <mojavelinux> hehehe
[07:11:24] <mojavelinux> where to get a war with servlets?
[07:11:33] <mojavelinux> hmm, just add a servlet to booking
[07:11:40] <mojavelinux> if you can think of something useful for it to do
[07:11:44] <mojavelinux> or just do it anyway
[07:12:33] <lightguard_jp> Found one in the samples
[07:12:36] <lightguard_jp> for glassfish
[07:12:40] <mojavelinux> ahhh
[07:12:49] <mojavelinux> I guess servlet really needs an example
[07:14:32] <lightguard_jp> wow
[07:14:33] <lightguard_jp> curl -s -S -H 'Accept: application/xml' -X GET http://localhost:4848/management/domain/applications/application/list-sub-components\?id\=annotation-war
[07:14:52] <lightguard_jp> That's what I finally ended up with to get the list of servlets in an app
[07:14:54] <lightguard_jp> PITA
[07:15:51] <bleathem> org.jboss.seam.international.status.MessageFactory isn't available in Faces API.
[07:16:07] <bleathem> Any reason I should add the dependency? (to API)
[07:16:21] <bleathem> ^any reason I shouldn't add...
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[07:25:22] <bleathem> ok, going back to putting the abstract Converter and Validator into impl.
[07:25:54] <bleathem> If need be, I could put interfaces in API for the Converter and Validator.  But it seems like overkill at the moment
[07:26:34] <bleathem> ok, final test, then I can commit this.
[07:27:06] <bleathem> despite mojavelinux's best efforts, I'll go to bed with more than %50 of Faces issues squashed!
[07:29:46] <mojavelinux> awesome!
[07:29:50] <mojavelinux> champion
[07:30:14] <lightguard_jp> want groovy....
[07:30:30] <mojavelinux> shit, jason, I didn't realize you needed to servlet war for querying the rest api
[07:30:40] <mojavelinux> I was thinking it was for something in catch
[07:30:49] <mojavelinux> I probably could have suggested another source of wars
[07:30:52] <lightguard_jp> We need the list of servlets to pass back to arquillian
[07:30:54] <mojavelinux> I guess you found one
[07:31:11] <mojavelinux> yep, I was getting confused as to where the question was coming from
[07:31:20] <mojavelinux> clearly I'm draining
[07:31:21] <mojavelinux> hehehe
[07:31:43] <mojavelinux> damn, I was hoping to get this blog entry finished, but alas, I think I'm getting useless at this point
[07:32:05] <mojavelinux> it's amazing, for like a year or more there was virtually no interesting activity in seam...just weld stuff
[07:32:14] <mojavelinux> and then it's been insanity for the last couple months
[07:32:22] <mojavelinux> just crazy how much awesome stuff is happening
[07:32:41] <mojavelinux> and even arquillian is back on the fast track
[07:32:51] <mojavelinux> and richfaces
[07:33:20] <lightguard_jp> BAH!!!
[07:33:26] <lightguard_jp> need context roots
[07:33:28] <lightguard_jp> )((*%^*&%^(^*
[07:33:37] <mojavelinux> it didnt' give them to you
[07:34:00] <mojavelinux> isn't there an API doc?
[07:34:12] <lightguard_jp> For the rest stuff?
[07:34:17] <lightguard_jp> Not that I know of
[07:36:42] <lightguard_jp> Crud
[07:36:49] <lightguard_jp> May need to wait until I can talk to Jason
[07:36:49] <mojavelinux> geez, that would be helpful
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[07:37:58] <jbossbot> git [faces] push master c8a0505.. Brian Leathem SEAMFACES-24: Provide convenience classes for Validators/Converters
[07:38:05] <jbossbot> jira [SEAMFACES-24] Provide convenience classes for Validators/Converters [Open (Unresolved) Feature Request, Major, Brian Leathem] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMFACES-24
[07:38:05] <jbossbot> git [faces] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/faces/compare/597da8b...c8a0505
[07:40:05] <bleathem> Seam Faces: 9 of 17 issues have been resolved
[07:40:25] <bleathem> that does it for me.  Gonna sign out before mojavelinux tips the scale again!
[07:40:45] <mojavelinux> dont' worry, i'm out too...sleep well :)
[07:40:59] <mojavelinux> yeah, I think if you give the requirements to jason, he'll get back to you pretty quick
[07:41:03] <mojavelinux> if that doesn't work, tweet it
[07:41:09] <mojavelinux> that will provoke a response ;)
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[07:41:22] <mojavelinux> list-applications shows a list of applications deployed
[07:41:43] <mojavelinux> oh, I see, you are going for the servlets
[07:41:45] <lightguard_jp> Yeah
[07:41:55] <lightguard_jp> I'll have to get with Jason
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[07:43:27] <mojavelinux> are you trying to get the servlet mapping?
[07:43:33] <lightguard_jp> Yep
[07:43:51] <mojavelinux> it's not fixed? is this the arquillian servlet?
[07:44:45] <lightguard_jp> I'm looking at other examples (because it's so well documented) and it's taking a list of servlets in the app
[07:45:00] <lightguard_jp> I guess in case things get remapped? idk
[07:45:34] <mojavelinux> I would think that right now, just having the context path should be enough...and arquillian's servlet mapping should be fixed
[07:45:56] <mojavelinux> because a servlet can have multiple mappings, so there is no one answer
[07:48:06] <lightguard_jp> I'll get it
[07:48:47] <mojavelinux> hang on though, looking at the as 6 container code
[07:48:56] <mojavelinux> this is the first I"ve actually seen this protocol code
[07:49:07] <mojavelinux> he is getting the context root for the app
[07:49:12] <mojavelinux> and the name of each servlet
[07:49:15] <mojavelinux> but not anymore
[07:49:24] <mojavelinux> ontext.add(new Servlet(servletName, contextRoot));
[07:49:27] <mojavelinux> you have that info already
[07:50:17] <mojavelinux> asadmin> list-sub-components seam-booking
[07:50:17] <mojavelinux> CurrentUserManager            <StatefulSessionBean>
[07:50:17] <mojavelinux> Registrar                     <StatefulSessionBean>
[07:50:17] <mojavelinux> BookingHistory                <StatefulSessionBean>
[07:50:17] <mojavelinux> BookingAgent                  <StatefulSessionBean>
[07:50:17] <mojavelinux> HotelSearch                   <StatefulSessionBean>
[07:50:17] <mojavelinux> PasswordManager               <StatefulSessionBean>
[07:50:18] <mojavelinux> Authenticator                 <StatelessSessionBean>
[07:50:18] <mojavelinux> Faces Servlet                 <Servlet>
[07:50:19] <mojavelinux> Servlet Event Bridge Servlet  <Servlet>
[07:50:19] <mojavelinux> default                       <Servlet>
[07:50:20] <mojavelinux> jsp                           <Servlet>
[07:52:26] <lightguard_jp> Isn't that the context root for the servlet though?
[07:52:41] <mojavelinux> nope, the context root is like what the app is called, like seam-booking
[07:52:44] <mojavelinux> that's all you need
[07:52:55] <mojavelinux> I think you just need the hostname, ip and context-root
[07:53:02] <mojavelinux> and aslak is also including the list of servlet names
[07:53:24] <lightguard_jp> Some info in docs would be nice...
[07:53:25] <lightguard_jp> grrr
[07:53:32] <mojavelinux> yeah, that is something that needs work
[07:53:42] <lightguard_jp> Not flying on my watch
[07:53:47] <mojavelinux> at this point, I'm happy that arquillian actually has a master again
[07:53:58] <lightguard_jp> Yeah it died for a bit
[07:54:06] <mojavelinux> it was in extreme prototyping
[07:54:07] <mojavelinux> hehehe
[07:54:29] <mojavelinux> I've gotta shut down before my body does
[07:55:21] <lightguard_jp> Okay, later
[07:55:45] <mojavelinux> we don't have to be too nervous, just as long as aslak knows we need this container for alpha5, he should give us a chance to get it running
[07:56:04] <mojavelinux> i feel like everyone wants to release at once ;)
[07:56:07] <mojavelinux> hehehe
[07:56:13] <lightguard_jp> Yeah
[07:56:29] <mojavelinux> rome wasn't built in a day...but it was probably destroyed in one by a natural disaster
[07:56:57] <mojavelinux> i'll see online tomorrow...we have a SW meeting at 11:00 EST if you are around an interested
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[12:53:18] <gastaldi> good morning all !
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[13:23:46] <jose_freitas> morning
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[14:13:28] <jbossbot> git [rest] push master a7b9e59.. Jozef Hartinger Switch to the jboss community code formatting
[14:13:28] <jbossbot> git [rest] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/rest/compare/1f5ee58...a7b9e59
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[14:17:36] <jbossbot> git [rest] push master 9af3b84.. Jozef Hartinger re-apply package-level @Requires annotation which was accidentally removed SEAMREST-25
[14:17:38] <jbossbot> jira [SEAMREST-25] Use Solder's @Requires for optional beans [Resolved (Done) Task, Minor, Jozef Hartinger] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMREST-25
[14:17:39] <jbossbot> git [rest] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/rest/compare/a7b9e59...9af3b84
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[14:50:32] <jbossbot> git [social] push master 579756b.. Marek Schmidt ftest for seam social, test auth from linkedin and twitter
[14:50:32] <jbossbot> git [social] push master 2466694.. Antoine Sabot-Durand Minor refactoring about package names...
[14:50:32] <jbossbot> git [social] push master df32327.. Antoine Sabot-Durand Merge remote-tracking branch 'maschmid/master'
[14:50:33] <jbossbot> git [social] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/social/compare/ad798d8...df32327
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[15:04:03] <gastaldi> hey ho !
[15:04:07] <lincolnthree1> *chirp*
[15:04:18] <gastaldi> :)
[15:04:44] <gastaldi> Who is responsible for releasing a Seam Module ?
[15:04:44] <gastaldi> Shane ?
[15:04:52] <lincolnthree1> The module lead :)
[15:05:03] <lincolnthree1> Shane is responsible for a few modules and the seam distribution bundle releases
[15:05:13] <lincolnthree1> And he has power over it all, too, technically
[15:05:35] <gastaldi> So, the module leader in general ?
[15:06:18] <gastaldi> ok
[15:07:45] <gastaldi> normally a mvn release:prepare release:perform will do the job, I think
[15:08:15] <lincolnthree1> in general the module lead, yes
[15:08:30] 
[15:09:56] <gastaldi> say, do we have any license for JRebel ?
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[15:26:12] <clerum> lincolnthree1: looks like we are good on the render jar
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[15:26:15] <clerum> thanks
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[15:27:00] <clerum> mojavelinux: did something change with the snapshot bom since last night
[15:27:20] <clerum> was working but now getting same 'dependencies.dependency.version' for org.jboss.spec:jboss-javaee-6.0:pom is missing. @ line 211, column 17
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[15:29:02] <mojavelinux> yep, we lost the stanza again
[15:29:15] <mojavelinux> is there a way to make a dependency element read-only :)
[15:29:28] <mojavelinux> so that people stop removing it?
[15:29:30] <mojavelinux> morning all
[15:29:38] <mojavelinux> the jury is still out on whether it is good
[15:29:41] <mojavelinux> dev hangover
[15:29:46] <clerum> :-)
[15:30:07] <clerum> k I'm just trying to get mail back to a building state
[15:30:11] <clerum> no rush
[15:30:42] <clerum> or should I be handling it different in my pom
[15:34:00] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master 2a08210.. Dan Allen restore jboss-javaee-6.0 stack dependencies, again
[15:34:01] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/dist/compare/fd74210...2a08210
[15:34:03] <mojavelinux> and it's back
[15:35:02] <mojavelinux> a different approach would be to include the specific spec artifacts you need
[15:35:06] <mojavelinux> rather than all of them
[15:35:32] <mojavelinux> you probably just need mail and cdi
[15:35:56] <mojavelinux> look inside that the jboss-javaee-6.0 pom for the group and artifact ids
[15:36:04] <mojavelinux> some are under org.jboss.spec.*
[15:36:32] <mojavelinux> maven complains about the duplicate entry in the seam-bom because it's too dumb to realize that it's serving a purpose
[15:36:39] <mojavelinux> shane might be removing it because of that warning
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[15:37:43] <mojavelinux> we lost george before I could answer
[15:37:53] <mojavelinux> module leads can release, we just have to setup the right permissions
[15:38:01] <mojavelinux> and jrebel does licenses per dev
[15:38:05] <mojavelinux> you just have to request it
[15:38:23] <mojavelinux> to support open source
[15:38:43] <mojavelinux> if you've never released a module, then either shane, jason or I can help
[15:38:59] <mojavelinux> for the record, in case he comes back asking again...I should add those questions to the module handbook
[15:39:01] <mojavelinux> #action
[15:42:50] <mojavelinux> Kerfluffle is the official word of the day
[15:43:23] <mojavelinux> it will be word of the day so that we don't have a kerfluffle when we release seam 3.0 final
[15:44:44] <mojavelinux> hahah, just got a webinar notice from dzone
[15:45:01] <mojavelinux> seven things to let go of before you release
[15:45:22] <mojavelinux> The Automated System is Waiting For You (perils of pseudo-automation)
[15:45:22] <mojavelinux> It Only Takes A Night (slow, serialized release processes)
[15:45:22] <mojavelinux> Scotty's The Build Guy, So Scotty Runs the Build  (not abstracting the release environment)
[15:45:22] <mojavelinux> Everyone Does it Their Way, That Way No One's Happy (confusing uniformity with homology)
[15:45:30] <mojavelinux> I guess right now, Shane is the build guy :)
[15:45:42] <mojavelinux> we could definitely leverage Hudson more
[15:45:47] <mojavelinux> make that a goal for post seam 3.0
[15:45:51] <mojavelinux> get Hudson to do more work
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[15:54:39] <mojavelinux> bleathem: we no longer conflict
[15:54:45] <mojavelinux> on presentation times
[15:55:18] <mojavelinux> I'll be in your talk too, so I can help out if you need me :)
[15:55:54] <clerum> mojavelinux: how often does that snapshot go up to maven?
[15:57:23] <jbossbot> git [rest] push master 6d9f052.. Jozef Hartinger switch to resteasy-jaxrs-api + formatting of the main pom
[15:57:23] <jbossbot> git [rest] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/rest/compare/9af3b84...6d9f052
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[16:03:07] <bleathem> mojavelinux: good to hear!  Thanks for fixing that
[16:03:22] <bleathem> jose_freitas ping
[16:04:27] <clerum> nm I just moved that to the seam mail parent
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[16:06:57] <mojavelinux> nightly I believe
[16:07:13] <mojavelinux> hudson is sort of lazy like that
[16:08:59] <clerum> ugh
[16:09:04] <bleathem> Congratulations jose_freitas! You are now listed as a Seam Faces contributor! http://seamframework.org/Seam3/FacesModuleHome
[16:09:08] <clerum> lincolnthree1: that jar is gone again https://repository.jboss.org/nexus/content/groups/public-jboss/org/jboss/seam/render/seam-render/1.0.0-SNAPSHOT/
[16:09:38] <clerum> I could just toast the render impl until it gets a real release
[16:09:52] <clerum> easy to add back
[16:11:26] <bleathem> I need to update the picture I use for my online "presence"
[16:11:32] <bleathem> I'm not actually that young :P
[16:13:10] <mojavelinux> if you leave it, you just tell people that you are so famous that you had to send a double :)
[16:13:45] <mojavelinux> #action lincolnthree1 make a real release
[16:13:47] <bleathem> lol
[16:13:48] <mojavelinux> :)
[16:14:19] <clerum> should be a forge command to make lincolnthree1 do something
[16:14:37] <clerum> I'll file a jira later
[16:14:58] <mojavelinux> hahaha
[16:15:05] <clerum> something involving electrodes
[16:16:20] <clerum> I tried on #jboss yesterday but has anyone been using a seam 2 project on as6
[16:16:53] <clerum> I can't get the seam-gen style rexplode to work without the server undeploying and redeploying
[16:17:35] <mojavelinux> that is likely a bug in as6, i doubt it's just you
[16:17:40] <clerum> makes an xhtml change a 60 second operation
[16:17:48] <clerum> k
[16:17:48] <mojavelinux> yeah, for real
[16:17:56] <mojavelinux> i wonder if any other files are touched
[16:17:59] <clerum> k I'll file a jira on it
[16:18:09] <clerum> maybe they can help me debug
[16:18:13] <mojavelinux> because you would think max would see that in jboss tools
[16:18:13] <clerum> would like to get off 4.23
[16:18:35] <mojavelinux> i wonder if reexplode is touching a file that used to be ignored if changed and now isn't
[16:18:59] <clerum> worked fine in 4.2.3
[16:19:04] <mojavelinux> in the issue, I would list any files that were changed when the reexplode happens, that might ring a bell with someone
[16:19:11] <mojavelinux> yeah, new rules in a sense
[16:19:13] <clerum> dunno if they do it different with the whole publish to server thing
[16:19:16] <mojavelinux> new scanning rules I'm guessing
[16:19:18] <clerum> in tools
[16:19:39] <mojavelinux> my guess is that the scanning is more aggressive
[16:19:50] <mojavelinux> so it could be there needs to be a tweak in the reexplode command
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[16:19:55] <clerum> they jsf2 compatible version of seam is really needed
[16:19:58] <clerum> the
[16:20:11] <mojavelinux> yep, check with marek on what the plans are for that
[16:20:35] <clerum> will do
[16:21:21] <lightguard_jp> I think it's 2.3 they're shooting for full compat
[16:21:31] <lightguard_jp> But that's not due for a little while I think
[16:21:41] <clerum> yep it's that richfaces is leaving 3.3.X behind
[16:21:52] <clerum> and current seam 2 can't use 4
[16:22:07] <clerum> and IE9 now has some breakage with RF3
[16:22:09] <lightguard_jp> mojavelinux: Is jharting one of those we can talk to about moving from Hudson to Jenkins?
[16:22:17] <lightguard_jp> Figures
[16:22:21] <lightguard_jp> clerum: ^^^
[16:22:29] <mojavelinux> absolutely...though he may put you in touch with their manager
[16:22:47] <mojavelinux> who's name escapse me...chat with martin, jozef and/or karel
[16:22:54] <clerum> I think it has to do more with tweaks made for ie8 that are not nessasary in ie9
[16:23:12] <clerum> ie9 looks quite awesome acutally
[16:23:42] <clerum> which is something I never figured I would say
[16:23:49] <lightguard_jp> jharting: ping
[16:23:57] <jharting> lightguard_jp: pong
[16:24:04] <lightguard_jp> clerum: Until you try to do any html5 with it
[16:24:10] <lightguard_jp> scores suck with html5test.com
[16:24:44] <lightguard_jp> jharting: Who do we need to talk to about moving hudson to jenkins? Or is that not a possibility?
[16:25:16] <clerum> true, but at least they are finally knocking out acid 3 and the likes
[16:25:26] <jharting> lightguard_jp: you mean the instance that runs on hudson.jboss.org, right?
[16:25:27] <lightguard_jp> Anyone know Peter Larsen (egoalter on twitter)?
[16:25:32] <clerum> don't get me wrong I still use chrome for everything :-)
[16:25:37] <lightguard_jp> jharting: Correct
[16:25:53] <lightguard_jp> wishes chrome used less memory, well, browsers in general
[16:25:58] <lightguard_jp> GC is a good thing....
[16:26:07] <lincolnthree1> Firefox is a hog
[16:26:09] <lincolnthree1> absolute hog
[16:26:25] <jharting> lightguard_jp: that one is a mirror of an internal hudson instance
[16:26:35] <jharting> lightguard_jp: which also runs jobs for products
[16:26:43] <clerum> firefox lost me with their update system.
[16:26:57] <jharting> lightguard_jp: so all the jobs are executed on the internal one, and some of them are then published to the public one
[16:27:08] <jharting> lightguard_jp: we cannot migrate the public one by itself
[16:27:26] <clerum> yes. upgrade right when I open the browser because the first thing I want to do is spend 5 minutes installing an update
[16:27:35] <jharting> lightguard_jp: I can try to find out if there is an overall migration planned
[16:27:36] <clerum> not like I had plans to look something up or anything
[16:27:51] <lightguard_jp> jharting: Thanks, that would be nice
[16:30:41] <clerum> https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBAS-8966
[16:30:43] <jbossbot> jira [JBAS-8966] Seam 2 Reexplode causes full undeploy + deploy on AS6 [Open (Unresolved) Bug, Major, Unassigned] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBAS-8966
[16:30:49] <clerum> see where that goes
[16:31:26] <jose_freitas> so, what time do we have the meeting today?
[16:31:59] <lightguard_jp> Same UTC time, adjust for DST accordingly
[16:32:08] <lightguard_jp> We'll talk about a different time, I think.
[16:32:12] <lightguard_jp> mojavelinux: ^^ ?
[16:33:36] <mojavelinux> if we adjust for DST (for shane's sake) then it becomes 17:00 EST
[16:33:46] <mojavelinux> however, for east coasters, that's really a bad time
[16:34:35] <lightguard_jp> I don't think the time changes for Shane, but 1700 EST is bad
[16:34:38] <mojavelinux> we could go one more hour forward and have it at 18:00 EST...if that means ken or jordan can make it, since they were having trouble with the scheduling
[16:34:44] <lightguard_jp> Going earlier not good for Shane
[16:34:54] <mojavelinux> yeah, i'm okay with 18:00 EST
[16:35:17] <mojavelinux> 19:00 EST is getting kind of late for the euro guys
[16:35:45] <mojavelinux> is that okay w/ you jason?
[16:35:55] <mojavelinux> 18:00 EST
[16:35:59] <mojavelinux> that's 4pm for you
[16:36:55] <lightguard_jp> Yeah that works
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[17:24:49] <mojavelinux> anyone want to try the maven archetypes on AS7? would give us an idea of when we can start putting Seam on it
[17:24:56] <mojavelinux> you may have to upgrade solder after generating the app
[17:25:06] <mojavelinux> http://tinyurl.com/gojavaee
[17:25:09] <mojavelinux> patches welcome
[17:25:12] <mojavelinux> yes, I still need to put it in git
[17:27:34] <mojavelinux> actually, same question goes for forge scaffold
[17:27:38] <mojavelinux> running on AS7?
[17:28:07] <mojavelinux> if that works, then we can go for booking :P
[17:33:16] <lightguard_jp> I'd put it on my todo list, but I probably wouldn't get to it for a week or so
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[17:36:48] <clerum> need to buy some new video cards. thinking nvidia chip any mfg recommendations?
[17:38:51] <lightguard_jp> MSI has good stuff
[17:39:02] <lightguard_jp> XF-something is good too.
[17:39:13] <lightguard_jp> Just check hardware sites :)
[17:39:57] <bleathem> How about a linux laptop?  I don't really feel like buying another macbook pro just to put fedora on it...
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[18:10:21] <gastaldi> hey
[18:10:33] <lincolnthree> *chirp*
[18:10:45] <lightguard_jp> Shoot
[18:10:46] <gastaldi> I noticed on the discussion list that there is no equivalent on @Out in Seam 3
[18:10:55] <lightguard_jp> @Produces
[18:10:59] <gastaldi> @Produces would be the closest one,
[18:11:02] <lightguard_jp> lincolnthree: You're *crickets*
[18:11:07] * lightguard_jp grumbles
[18:11:13] <lincolnthree> *crickets*
[18:11:18] <lightguard_jp> :)
[18:11:21] 
[18:11:28] <lightguard_jp> Not really
[18:11:36] <lightguard_jp> It's close, but not quite the same.
[18:11:41] <gastaldi> How about an @Outject on Weld ?
[18:11:56] <lightguard_jp> You can produce something like a container, set what you want and get at it that way
[18:12:12] <gastaldi> but u cannot change that instance
[18:12:17] <gastaldi> once produced
[18:12:23] <lightguard_jp> No, but you can change things *in* it
[18:12:35] <gastaldi> yeah, I see that
[18:12:51] <gastaldi> But how hard could it be an @Outject impl ?
[18:13:10] <gastaldi> Could be an interceptor binding impl
[18:13:18] <gastaldi> annotation, sorry
[18:13:44] <lightguard_jp> It's not the same
[18:13:51] <gastaldi> how so ?
[18:13:57] <lightguard_jp> In Seam 2 bi-jection is done at runtime.
[18:14:11] <lightguard_jp> In CDI all injection related stuff is figured out at deployment time
[18:14:20] <gastaldi> humm
[18:14:29] <lightguard_jp> So you have to know at deployment what's going to be produced and injected.
[18:14:54] <lightguard_jp> Which is why you'd have to create a wrapper object that's produced
[18:15:11] <gastaldi> I guess this must be part of the so proposed Seam 2 Bridge
[18:15:44] <clerum> I wonder who would want to use the bridge
[18:15:58] <mojavelinux> we did talk about this for a bit at one point
[18:16:04] <mojavelinux> outjection can be achieved if there is a holder object
[18:16:17] <mojavelinux> so basically, you can no longer write to the top-level namespace of a scope
[18:16:23] <mojavelinux> you can just say "put this in request scope"
[18:16:24] <mojavelinux> it's pull
[18:16:38] <mojavelinux> however, you can set a value of an object
[18:16:39] 
[18:16:47] <mojavelinux> so, you can have a request object that holds stuff, like a mpa
[18:16:48] <mojavelinux> map
[18:16:52] <mojavelinux> then you can push things into that
[18:17:01] <lightguard_jp> Yeah, that's what I was talking about, but mojavelinux said it better :)
[18:17:03] <mojavelinux> then you can have a producer that turns around and reads from that
[18:17:07] <gastaldi> I think that would be better
[18:17:10] <mojavelinux> it's hacky, but it's a solution
[18:17:36] <gastaldi> You benefit from using @PostCreate and @PreDestroy annotations
[18:17:46] <gastaldi> But at the cost of a new class
[18:17:50] <mojavelinux> but in general, the idea is to get people away from the outjection
[18:17:58] <mojavelinux> and have them think about it more as "read the state of the system"
[18:18:13] 
[18:18:21] <mojavelinux> basically, outjection is replaced with a state holder pattern
[18:18:24] <clerum> my feeling is stay at seam 2 style, or recode to CDI
[18:18:39] <clerum> I don't see the point of the bridge, but maybe some will use it
[18:19:09] <mojavelinux> I think what we've determined is that the bridge is so that you can use seam 2 objects as though you are calling into a different container
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[18:19:46] <clerum> but woudn't a compatible seam 2.2.3 eliminate the need for that?
[18:19:47] <mojavelinux> so like a service object, but the problem of course is that you have two seperate sets of context buckets
[18:20:06] <mojavelinux> well, cdi still needs a way to see the seam 2 components
[18:20:18] <clerum> oh so a way to have both
[18:20:23] <mojavelinux> right
[18:20:49] <clerum> we aren't talking about being able to replace the seam 2 core with a bridge that uses cdi for everything
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[18:21:04] <clerum> it would be having both cdi and seam 2 in the same project at the same time?
[18:21:07] <mojavelinux> you know what we need George, is to have examples of when you think you need outjection, then show how we solve that in cdi alone
[18:21:24] <mojavelinux> and then perhaps it becomes more clear that it's possible w/o it...I mean, you are still doing outjection, effectively
[18:21:34] <mojavelinux> if you think of outjection as a way of exposing state of the system
[18:21:41] <mojavelinux> and not pushing objects to the top level
[18:21:44] <mojavelinux> meaning
[18:21:52] <mojavelinux> the field that had @Out
[18:21:54] <mojavelinux> has state
[18:22:02] <mojavelinux> now, it was fine where it was
[18:22:04] <mojavelinux> just read it there
[18:22:13] <mojavelinux> instead of moving it
[18:22:46] <mojavelinux> you can read it either by defeferencing the property
[18:22:56] <mojavelinux> having a producer that aliases it to a top-level name
[18:23:02] <mojavelinux> or you can use a @Producer field
[18:23:29] <mojavelinux> now you can't keep reusing the same name over and over, that's the only limitation
[18:23:57] <mojavelinux> so if you have "people" on one screen that is a list of users
[18:24:04] <mojavelinux> and "people" on another screen that is a list of employees
[18:24:34] <mojavelinux> then you can't do that without some logic in the producer because you can't have the same name point to two different things
[18:24:38] <mojavelinux> you could w/ outjection
[18:24:45] <mojavelinux> because you were allowed to overwrite a variable
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[18:30:55] <gastaldi> #agreed
[18:31:07] <gastaldi> oh, meeting is not on ? :)
[18:31:11] <lightguard_jp> No
[18:31:14] <lightguard_jp> you have start a meeting
[18:31:20] <lightguard_jp> with #startmeeting
[18:31:35] <gastaldi> Dan would you do the talking again for the record ?
[18:32:14] <lightguard_jp> #startmeeting
[18:32:20] <jbott> Meeting started Wed Mar 16 17:29:46 2011 UTC.  The chair is lightguard_jp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
[18:32:21] <jbott> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
[18:32:23] <lightguard_jp> #topic Seam 2 bridge for Seam 3
[18:32:26] <lightguard_jp> #chair mojavelinux
[18:32:32] <jbott> Current chairs: lightguard_jp mojavelinux
[18:32:44] <gastaldi> #info CDI does not supports @Out from Seam 2
[18:33:42] <mojavelinux>  if you turn outjection on it's head and expose the state of the system rather than pushing objects to the top level
[18:33:45] <mojavelinux> then you have producers
[18:34:05] <mojavelinux> true, we could emulate an @Out by writing to a bucket, like a map
[18:34:38] <mojavelinux> but I think we want to encourage people away from that model, the reason it was dropped it because tooling (and humans) didn't know what populated a variable
[18:34:40] 
[18:35:05] <mojavelinux> now, you can click on an EL expression and it jumps you to the matching producer
[18:35:09] <mojavelinux> now that makes sense
[18:35:30] <mojavelinux> and a producer can be a calculated product
[18:35:41] <mojavelinux> it can be an alias to a getter method
[18:35:48] <mojavelinux> or it can be a direct field reference
[18:35:58] <mojavelinux> which is about as close you get to outjection
[18:36:12] <mojavelinux> the one benefit that outjection added
[18:36:25] <mojavelinux> was that it woudl transform the data transparently before it was pushed out
[18:36:29] <mojavelinux> like wrapping a list as a datamodel
[18:36:35] <mojavelinux> that can be done with a producer method
[18:36:40] <mojavelinux> and we could even have that dynamically
[18:36:42] <mojavelinux> in seam faces
[18:36:43] <mojavelinux> like this
[18:36:53] <mojavelinux> @Produces @DataModel List<Stuff> getStuff() {}
[18:37:06] <mojavelinux> CDI can register a new producer method dynamically
[18:37:09] <mojavelinux> that provides
[18:37:17] <mojavelinux> @Produces DataModel getStuff() {}
[18:37:20] <mojavelinux> good feature for seam faces ;)
[18:37:41] <mojavelinux> being about to add producer methods is super cool
[18:37:55] <mojavelinux> and have them delegate to the original producer method and wrap the result
[18:39:51] <gastaldi> Anything else ?
[18:40:52] <mojavelinux> one of the real pains that we have to deal with
[18:40:55] <mojavelinux> that outjection was good for
[18:40:59] <mojavelinux> is that in jsf
[18:41:04] <mojavelinux> producers are read as a page is restored
[18:41:12] <mojavelinux> and often you want to reproduce before the page is rendered
[18:41:22] <mojavelinux> so we've solved that problem in part with some new scopes in seam faces
[18:41:32] <mojavelinux> but without those scopes, you get the problem where your producers are too sticky
[18:41:39] <mojavelinux> if they are request-scoped that is
[18:41:45] <mojavelinux> request scope turns out to be a pretty bad scope in jsf
[18:41:53] <mojavelinux> because really there are two parts of a jsf request
[18:42:03] <mojavelinux> and what is good for restore often isn't good for render, things change
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[18:45:46] <gastaldi> I think this is enough. Anyone ?
[18:46:32] <gastaldi> #endmeeting
[18:48:29] <lightguard_jp> #endmeeting
[18:48:33] <mojavelinux> cool
[18:48:34] <jbott> Meeting ended Wed Mar 16 17:46:00 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
[18:48:34] <jbott> Minutes:        http://people.redhat.com/~manderse/irc.freenode.org/meetings/seam-dev/2011/seam-dev.2011-03-16-17.29.html
[18:48:34] <jbott> Minutes (text): http://people.redhat.com/~manderse/irc.freenode.org/meetings/seam-dev/2011/seam-dev.2011-03-16-17.29.txt
[18:48:34] <jbott> Log:            http://people.redhat.com/~manderse/irc.freenode.org/meetings/seam-dev/2011/seam-dev.2011-03-16-17.29.log.html
[18:48:48] <lightguard_jp> gastaldi: You weren't a meeting chair, only chairs can end the meeting
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[18:52:15] <gastaldi> excelent
[18:52:31] <gastaldi> lightguard_jp: Anyone may start a new meeting ?
[18:52:37] <lightguard_jp> Yes
[18:52:42] <gastaldi> ok
[18:53:19] <gastaldi> this meeting better be available for those that believe that Seam 2 is legacy
[18:53:59] 
[18:54:29] <gastaldi> I wonder if the name "Seam" could not trouble even more
[18:54:45] <gastaldi> Take for example Struts
[18:55:29] 
[18:56:23] <gastaldi> well, gotta go now. Catch ya later !
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[19:16:47] <mojavelinux> what do you think of this statement?
[19:16:53] <mojavelinux> "Here's what I keep arriving at. I like the idea of Solder providing the i18n kernel code for logging and message bundles. But when you need a message bundle that is selected based on the end user's locale (@Client), then Seam international handles that by replacing/supplementing/complementing the Solder producers. "
[19:17:09] <mojavelinux> we are trying to determine whether @MessageBundle should live in Solder or Seam i18n
[19:17:30] <mojavelinux> and what we've come to the conclusion of, is the system locale message bundles are important for exception messages and the like
[19:17:34] <mojavelinux> and that they align well with loggers
[19:17:46] <mojavelinux> and all the client-specific locale and other i18n goes in Seam international
[19:18:00] <mojavelinux> so Solder is providing a sort of kernel for developers to do logging and bundles, but nothing more
[19:18:11] <mojavelinux> whereas Seam internal could do something like
[19:18:19] <mojavelinux> @Inject @ClientLocale AppMessages messages;
[19:18:33] <mojavelinux> of course, there is also the support for status messages, which is slightly different
[19:18:43] <mojavelinux> think of messages as something you might use to put a subject in an e-mail or something
[19:19:25] <mojavelinux> here is how the cards will fall
[19:19:27] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.i18n.Message
[19:19:27] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.i18n.MessageBundle
[19:19:27] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.i18n.Locale
[19:19:27] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.i18n.FormatWith
[19:19:27] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.logging.LogMessage
[19:19:28] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.logging.MessageLogger
[19:19:28] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.logging.Category
[19:19:29] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.logging.Cause
[19:19:54] <mojavelinux> we are also going to do this
[19:20:03] <mojavelinux> @Log(level = INFO) @Message("Hi")
[19:20:21] <mojavelinux> so correction, that should be
[19:20:52] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.i18n.Message
[19:20:52] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.i18n.MessageBundle
[19:20:52] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.i18n.Locale
[19:20:52] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.i18n.FormatWith
[19:20:52] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.logging.Log
[19:20:53] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.logging.MessageLogger
[19:20:53] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.logging.Category
[19:20:54] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.logging.Cause
[19:22:48] <mojavelinux> okay, lunch time
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[19:49:03] <lincolnthree> oh yeah... lunch
[19:49:04] <lincolnthree> hah
[19:49:06] <lincolnthree> forgot about that
[19:49:10] <lincolnthree> no wonder if feel weird
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[20:21:56] <lightguard_jp> Hm, twitter died, and IRC is quiet. Is there some sort of correlation?
[20:26:29] <johnament> lightguard_jp: someone ran shutdown -h on the entire internet
[20:26:41] <lightguard_jp> Must have
[20:28:40] <johnament> is the meeting is 30 minutes or 90 minutes?
[20:28:50] <lightguard_jp> The seam community meeting?
[20:28:57] <mojavelinux> at another hour
[20:29:09] <mojavelinux> we are actually pushing it so that it's not at 5 EST
[20:29:11] <mojavelinux> 6 EST
[20:29:22] <johnament> when did that happen?
[20:29:31] <lightguard_jp> mojavelinux: Going to do that this week?
[20:29:32] <johnament> i thought it was 4 EST?
[20:29:42] <lightguard_jp> mojavelinux: I think we mixed messages
[20:29:53] <lightguard_jp> I said we'd keep it the same this week and talk about it at the meeting
[20:29:55] <lightguard_jp> :)
[20:30:08] <johnament> k well if it's at 6 you'll never see me.
[20:30:10] <mojavelinux> oh, okay
[20:30:13] <lightguard_jp> I figured that would be less confusing for people.
[20:30:16] <mojavelinux> damn
[20:30:25] <mojavelinux> what if it's after 6?
[20:30:36] <johnament> did 4pm not work for people?
[20:30:38] <mojavelinux> basically, what times are good for you, rather than just stabbing in the dark?
[20:30:41] <lightguard_jp> Bad times :)
[20:30:43] <mojavelinux> the problem is
[20:30:45] <mojavelinux> stupid DST
[20:30:50] <mojavelinux> no DST in AU
[20:30:53] <lightguard_jp> 4 PM EST worked until DST kicked in
[20:30:59] <mojavelinux> so that makes it 5 in the morning for shane
[20:31:02] <johnament> so that was like 2 weeks?
[20:31:05] <lightguard_jp> And stuart
[20:31:08] <mojavelinux> yeah
[20:31:17] <mojavelinux> our dst screws them up
[20:31:37] <johnament> we should be blaiming ben franklin
[20:31:44] <johnament> or whoever made it. wasn't it franklin?
[20:32:11] <johnament> yeah it was ben.
[20:32:53] <mojavelinux> obama we need you
[20:33:07] <mojavelinux> we need playoffs in college and kill dst
[20:33:54] <johnament> 4pm, even 5pm worked great for me because i could look busy at work with one monitor up typing code, and another reading IRC
[20:34:29] <johnament> 6pm though i'm usually travelling home.
[20:34:35] <lightguard_jp> mojavelinux: Ha, you're expecting Obama to save you?
[20:34:43] <mojavelinux> we can do 5pm...who does that knock out?
[20:34:50] <johnament> seam is too big to fail
[20:34:52] <lightguard_jp> johnament: lol
[20:35:11] <lightguard_jp> Just East coast
[20:35:21] <johnament> well i'm east coast
[20:35:35] <mojavelinux> are you in philly?
[20:35:43] <johnament> yes
[20:35:47] <lightguard_jp> Yeah, those on the East Coast US will have a hard time getting to the meeting at that time.
[20:35:57] <mojavelinux> good, so we can meet up when I'm in town for ete
[20:36:00] <mojavelinux> :)
[20:36:12] <johnament> mojavelinux: i'm trying to get up to judcon
[20:36:25] <mojavelinux> sweet
[20:36:38] <johnament> i have to pitch the idea to family to watch my dogs for two days.
[20:36:45] <mojavelinux> we just need to check with ken about the 5pm slot
[20:36:51] <mojavelinux> if he's in, then I say we go in
[20:37:01] <johnament> there's Jordan as well..
[20:37:03] <mojavelinux> not sure about jordan...depends on if you can wait out rush hour
[20:37:11] <mojavelinux> I always stayed at work until 7pm
[20:37:24] <mojavelinux> because I didn't want to screw with traffic
[20:37:24] <johnament> start late?
[20:37:42] <mojavelinux> well, I just always work, so it didn't really matter where :)
[20:37:57] <mojavelinux> hahah
[20:38:42] <lightguard_jp> mojavelinux: Nothing's changed then
[20:39:02] <mojavelinux> I had the strangest hours you can imagine
[20:39:13] <mojavelinux> so yeah, nothing's changed hehehe
[20:39:49] <johnament> i'm out attending a semi-family wedding and my boss is still calling me when stuff goes down :-)
[20:40:09] <mojavelinux> I was on a ski slope one time when I got a call from the office
[20:40:21] <mojavelinux> I was like, yeah, can't really help you much
[20:40:23] <johnament> did you have bluetooth to answer it?
[20:40:24] <mojavelinux> of course, that was before android
[20:40:34] <mojavelinux> now I could actually hack on the slope
[20:40:38] <mojavelinux> now that would be bitchin
[20:40:50] <mojavelinux> hold on, I'm kicking off a build!
[20:40:52] <johnament> android still needs a cisco vpn client :/
[20:41:04] <mojavelinux> seriously
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[20:43:13] <kenfinnigan> All, what time is mtg today?
[20:43:25] <johnament> x o'clock
[20:43:25] <mojavelinux> stuart is alright if we keep the meeting at 4pm because it's 7am in sydney
[20:43:29] <jose_freitas> hahaha
[20:43:33] <mojavelinux> shane is just screwed at a 6am role call
[20:43:54] <mojavelinux> ken, is a meeting at 5pm bad for you?
[20:44:18] <clerum> so 4 EDT?
[20:44:42] <mojavelinux> we are trying to determine if we can let the dst kick in
[20:44:52] <mojavelinux> ken, 5pm? does that knock you out?
[20:45:51] <johnament> it looks like it did
[20:46:42] <mojavelinux> he's taking out trash :)
[20:47:59] <kenfinnigan> 5 is fine as I'm usually home by then
[20:48:00] <kenfinnigan> Then just need to fight off the attention of my son!
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[20:49:47] <kenfinnigan> Sorry, train tunnel!
[20:49:56] <kenfinnigan> What did I miss?
[20:49:58] <mojavelinux> he can sign onto vpn and bang on the keyboard when no one is talking
[20:50:00] <mojavelinux> hehehe
[20:50:38] <lightguard_jp> haha
[20:50:45] <lightguard_jp> Like a cat, or my girls
[20:50:57] <kenfinnigan> Did we set a time?
[20:50:58] <lightguard_jp> Dan got some of that the other night
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[20:51:14] <mojavelinux> that didnt' come out right
[20:51:49] <mojavelinux> i think we need to go with 5pm, or else we probably won't see shane and it's probably important that we have him :)
[20:52:07] <mojavelinux> however, we'll ask him, when he gets up
[20:52:11] <mojavelinux> if he wants to get up earlier
[20:52:13] <kenfinnigan> Just a little ;P
[20:52:30] <lightguard_jp> Wasn't the keyboard talk still in context? Maybe I should just stop
[20:52:31] <mojavelinux> and if he is willing, we can pull it back to 4pm
[20:52:43] <kenfinnigan> Don't we all love getting up before the sun shines?!
[20:53:37] <mojavelinux> i try to get to bed before the sun shines
[20:53:50] <mojavelinux> that's when I know i'm in trouble territory
[20:53:56] <kenfinnigan> You vampire you
[20:54:01] <mojavelinux> can't sleep with those damn birds yammering
[20:54:10] <kenfinnigan> Lol
[20:54:32] <lightguard_jp> mojavelinux: You've been failing the last few days with the sleep time
[20:54:36] <clerum> everyone should just switch to Mountain time...some parts of the world will just have a little darker work day
[20:54:42] <clerum> which is fine by me
[20:54:49] <mojavelinux> or you could just go to norway, then it's just always dark
[20:54:53] <mojavelinux> and then what does it matter
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[20:55:15] <clerum> solutions abound
[20:56:01] <mojavelinux> let's do the meeting at 5pm, in just over an hour
[20:56:03] <lightguard_jp> Just use UTC worldwide
[20:56:27] <mojavelinux> we'll see if we get shane, then we'll check with him, see if we can pull it back to 4pm...first order of business
[20:56:48] <mojavelinux> sorry, i know we've been all over the place with times, but I swear we will stablize
[20:56:52] <mojavelinux> it's sort of like the seam code
[20:57:13] <mojavelinux> it's sort of all over the place and it will all come together at once ;)
[20:57:29] <kenfinnigan> With a big bang!
[20:57:54] <kenfinnigan> And lo there was a Seamiverse!
[20:57:59] <clerum> lightguard_jp: as long as we aligin UTC with MST
[20:58:14] <lightguard_jp> And a late night on IRC
[20:58:18] <lightguard_jp> clerum: lol
[20:59:49] <kenfinnigan> mojavelinux: Was thinking about my email after I sent it
[21:00:30] <kenfinnigan> Having jboss-logging as dep to API of solder is fine once it has API/impl split
[21:00:42] <kenfinnigan> And then shade in combined
[21:01:42] <mojavelinux> right, exactly
[21:01:48] <mojavelinux> we just need the Logger API really
[21:02:00] <lightguard_jp> Are we still looking at one big shaded jar for final?
[21:02:23] <mojavelinux> I"m trying to work around the need for it, but I think we should offer it for the glassfish users
[21:02:23] <kenfinnigan> Going to try and do the work for them tonight and send pull request explaining all
[21:02:27] <mojavelinux> ball of seam wax
[21:02:34] <mojavelinux> awesome!
[21:02:40] <johnament> that'd be cool.
[21:02:59] <johnament> how about the jquery ui components? create a website where a user can customer their seam lib and dynamically build one?
[21:03:05] <mojavelinux> I was thinking, do you like org.jboss.seam.solder.i18n.Message or org.jboss.seam.solder.messages.Message?
[21:03:32] <kenfinnigan> Now your getting fancy
[21:03:39] <johnament> how about *something like* the jquery.... where a user can customize* their seam...
[21:03:41] <lightguard_jp> That would be cool
[21:03:58] <mojavelinux> either that or a forge plugin :)
[21:04:02] <lincolnthree> heh
[21:04:04] <kenfinnigan> As to whether we separate concerns between what is a pure message and what is i18n specific
[21:04:11] <lightguard_jp> lincolnthree: You have that already coded, right?
[21:04:13] <johnament> everything should be a forge plugin
[21:04:17] <lincolnthree> oh yeah....
[21:04:22] <mojavelinux> i think the messages helps to keep it as a core, and not about i18n
[21:04:33] <kenfinnigan> As @Message is not really i18n, just a precursor of
[21:04:48] <kenfinnigan> Agreed
[21:04:52] <mojavelinux> so the idea is that we have these annotations and they are about the declarative support for loggers and message bundles, and they can do a little i18n to point
[21:05:02] <mojavelinux> but it's really that they are establishing the message marker
[21:05:23] <kenfinnigan> That would help with solder i18n division
[21:05:30] <mojavelinux> then, we go do all the cool stuff in international :) that puts static and runtime config into that
[21:05:33] <mojavelinux> yep
[21:05:40] <mojavelinux> sweet
[21:05:59] <kenfinnigan> Sounds like a plan
[21:06:24] <mojavelinux> btw, i was also thinking...sort of on a parallel track (don't get scared)
[21:06:28] <mojavelinux> that the resourceLoader
[21:06:33] <mojavelinux> should have support for ResourceBundle
[21:06:35] <kenfinnigan> How much of this do we realistically expect to get in solder final given it will be in about a week?
[21:06:37] <mojavelinux> like this
[21:07:06] <mojavelinux> @Inject @Resource("messages") ResourceBundle bundle;
[21:07:06] <johnament> mojavelinux: i have a really old blog post floating around about getting bundles into CDI.
[21:07:10] <mojavelinux> where that loads messages.properties
[21:07:20] <mojavelinux> or the appropriate one for the *system* locale as we discussed
[21:07:33] <mojavelinux> yep, that's right! I still have it bookmarked :)
[21:07:40] <kenfinnigan> Think that is a good idea
[21:07:49] <mojavelinux> now, seam international does the more advanced things...
[21:07:53] <mojavelinux> what solder is providing
[21:07:57] <mojavelinux> is the classpath locator
[21:08:04] <mojavelinux> right now it has support for Properties
[21:08:10] <mojavelinux> and InputStream
[21:08:14] <mojavelinux> but is missing ResourceBundle
[21:08:26] <kenfinnigan> Especially as it would be cool to support ResoucreBundle.Control being from db or any source
[21:08:27] <mojavelinux> it's sort of a no-brainer
[21:09:07] <mojavelinux> and also, what's interesting is that the resource loader
[21:09:09] <mojavelinux> could take a locale
[21:09:17] <mojavelinux> and then international can use that as it's working with the locale support
[21:09:21] <mojavelinux> so it's a utility
[21:09:28] <mojavelinux> like effectively
[21:09:29] <kenfinnigan> Sounds cool
[21:09:41] <mojavelinux> @Resource("messages") @Locale("en_US") ResourceBundle bundle
[21:09:45] <jose_freitas> are we having the meeting?
[21:09:57] <mojavelinux> in 1 hr, we are having a pre-meeting now :)
[21:10:07] <jose_freitas> ok, perfect
[21:10:22] <mojavelinux> and the Locale is coming from org.jboss.seam.solder.messages.Locale
[21:10:28] <jose_freitas> I'm specially busy today, but I'm trying to catch up whats going on hehehe
[21:10:40] <mojavelinux> we are just a storm of collaboration lately
[21:10:47] <kenfinnigan> Ok, train approaching station. Time to drive like a bat out if he'll
[21:10:50] <johnament> mojavelinux: from an app developpment perspective, locale needs to be managed more at the user session level, since it has to do with the user in question.
[21:10:52] <kenfinnigan> Sorry, he'll
[21:11:02] <kenfinnigan> Damn it! Hell!
[21:11:07] <kenfinnigan> Back soon
[21:11:14] <mojavelinux> yep, that's what seam international will be concerned with john
[21:11:25] <mojavelinux> solder is just putting in some groundwork kernel
[21:11:31] <mojavelinux> primarily annotations
[21:11:39] <mojavelinux> and resource loader apis
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[21:11:59] <mojavelinux> and then international goes in there and provides client support and probably things like database-backed providers
[21:12:00] <mojavelinux> etc
[21:12:02] <johnament> i think we can get to that point with seam managed APIs as well.
[21:12:08] <mojavelinux> yep
[21:12:22] <mojavelinux> the way you have to think about it, solder that is
[21:12:38] <johnament> where solder provides a lot of the basic tooling and infra support?
[21:12:42] <mojavelinux> is that you ask yourself "is this a general purpose concern that module writers can use"
[21:13:04] <mojavelinux> right, and it shouldn't be overstepping or else those people who want to use it to build their cdi extension framework are like "too much"
[21:13:11] <johnament> i was looking at how hibernate & jpa are managed, to see what we can do for JCR sessions, and i can probably reduce a lot of code base by reusing
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[21:14:25] <mojavelinux> the only problem with @SeamManaged is that if you look at solder as a general purpose core, the "seam" bit is overstepping
[21:14:40] <lightguard_jp> Yep
[21:14:46] <mojavelinux> I wonder if there is a name that we can use there that would mean that it's more generic
[21:14:58] <lightguard_jp> Almost like we have solder, now we're seeing a need for seam-common
[21:15:13] <mojavelinux> don't say it :)
[21:15:14] <mojavelinux> hahaha
[21:15:43] <lightguard_jp> :)
[21:15:50] <clerum> which guava could be in...
[21:15:50] <lightguard_jp> Too late
[21:15:52] <mojavelinux> we could go one of two ways
[21:16:22] <johnament> guava? may as well just use guice
[21:16:25] <mojavelinux> we could make SeamManaged be like ExtensionManaged or CdiManaged
[21:16:36] <mojavelinux> right now we have an ugly situation
[21:16:41] <mojavelinux> we have imported half of guava
[21:16:44] <mojavelinux> into solder
[21:16:55] <johnament> what about ScopeManaged ?
[21:16:57] <mojavelinux> and we've talked about changing that, I don't know what happened to that
[21:17:00] <clerum> guava for it's collections and some basic String,File,Byte tools
[21:17:09] <mojavelinux> we should be shading guava
[21:17:12] <johnament> or ConversationManaged ?
[21:17:52] <lightguard_jp> mojavelinux: I think taht's where we ended up
[21:18:03] <mojavelinux> yeah, never filed a jira for that
[21:18:15] <mojavelinux> as ken and I discussed and we've talked about before
[21:18:21] <mojavelinux> importing a library into your own is just a bad idea
[21:18:28] <mojavelinux> because then upgrading it requires that you do it again
[21:18:37] <mojavelinux> and it isn't really your code
[21:18:50] <mojavelinux> hence shading...the motivation for shading is that poeple are obsessed with 1 jar
[21:18:54] <lightguard_jp> yep
[21:19:13] <mojavelinux> the lure of the 1 jar
[21:19:15] <mojavelinux> :)
[21:19:49] <lightguard_jp> I'd be fine with multiple jars if people would understand how to correctly scope their deps
[21:20:00] <lightguard_jp> And if maven wasn't transitive by default
[21:20:46] <mojavelinux> but back to SeamManaged
[21:20:58] <mojavelinux> so the other idea is that we should have persistence-core
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[21:21:28] <mojavelinux> btw, common and base are on the wall of shame
[21:21:30] <mojavelinux> it's all about core now
[21:21:31] <mojavelinux> :)
[21:21:41] <mojavelinux> just so that linux thinks you have an error on your system
[21:22:00] <mojavelinux> anyway, persistence-core would be shared by jpa and jcr
[21:22:14] <mojavelinux> though SeamManaged could technically go wider
[21:22:15] <johnament> is that where the transaction stuff would go?
[21:22:22] <mojavelinux> but that would solve some of your other shared concerns
[21:22:28] <mojavelinux> no, transaction is in transaction
[21:22:34] <johnament> oh
[21:22:49] <mojavelinux> I see transaction as being something which can totally be useful just standalone
[21:22:54] <mojavelinux> because even jms could use it
[21:22:54] <johnament> why should persistence-core be shared between jpa and jcr?
[21:23:18] <mojavelinux> i'm saying if you had some common code with the management of persistence oriented concerns
[21:23:21] <mojavelinux> suggesting
[21:23:23] <mojavelinux> not mandating
[21:24:05] <mojavelinux> depends on what you need, option is just on the table
[21:24:11] <johnament> they really split apart once you pull transaction into a new seam transaction module
[21:24:23] <mojavelinux> cool
[21:24:43] <mojavelinux> I think we should do that before seam 3.0 final...the transaction module
[21:24:59] <johnament> assuming the current "seam managed" is in solder and the basic transaction apis are in seam transaction.
[21:25:02] <mojavelinux> we already did the refactoring, so now we just need to do the packaging
[21:25:21] <johnament> i guess in my head, persistence-core == seam transaction module
[21:26:05] <mojavelinux> @SeamManaged is probably fine...after all, the resources really are managed by a seam module and not any other controller
[21:26:18] <mojavelinux> and consumers of solder that aren't seam modules can just ignore it :)
[21:26:25] <mojavelinux> doesn't hurt
[21:26:35] <mojavelinux> I think in terms of if myfaces codi would use solder
[21:26:46] <mojavelinux> even though they probably won't, I still think what their perspective would be
[21:27:00] <mojavelinux> because we want to foster cdi extensions, even if they aren't in the seam camp
[21:27:06] <johnament> then why not just @ManagedResource or something?
[21:28:05] <mojavelinux> in that sense, @ExtensionManaged would work too, I think
[21:28:12] <mojavelinux> so the idea of the annotation
[21:28:36] <mojavelinux> is really to communicate that the container isn't dealing with this ...that's the case in seam persistence
[21:28:53] <mojavelinux> it distinguishes a persistence context that isn't handled by the container, but rather by seam
[21:30:04] <mojavelinux> so let's see how that would look....
[21:30:14] <mojavelinux> @ExtensionManaged
[21:30:14] <mojavelinux> @Produces
[21:30:14] <mojavelinux> @PersistenceUnit
[21:30:14] <mojavelinux> @ConversationScoped
[21:30:14] <mojavelinux> EntityManagerFactory producerField;
[21:30:35] <johnament> in the case of JCR, there's never a container managed JCR session, always app managed.
[21:30:52] <johnament> but if you use @ExtensionManaged how do you know what extension is managing it?
[21:30:52] <mojavelinux> yeah, the other option is @ApplicationManaged
[21:31:02] <mojavelinux> except technically it's the module that's managing it, not your application
[21:31:17] <mojavelinux> well, it's the extension that manages that thing
[21:31:27] <mojavelinux> so it's really the combination of the annotation plus the type
[21:31:28] <mojavelinux> that tells you
[21:31:38] <mojavelinux> after all, why would @SeamManaged be more specific?
[21:32:08] <mojavelinux> i like @ExtensionManaged, though I could live with @ApplicationManaged too (but not liking it as much)
[21:32:22] <johnament> my preference right now is @ModuleManaged
[21:32:35] <mojavelinux> okay, that would work too, in a sense that says the same thing to me
[21:32:47] <mojavelinux> we are building on the well established term of container-managed
[21:32:57] <mojavelinux> we want to be the opposite (or complement)
[21:33:03] <mojavelinux> however you think of it
[21:33:18] <mojavelinux> we'll put up a vote at the meeting
[21:33:23] <mojavelinux> Module vs Extension vs Application
[21:33:34] <mojavelinux> I think that gets us out of the over application of the Seam branding
[21:33:45] <mojavelinux> so that it's a generally useful annotation for meaning "not container managed"
[21:33:52] <mojavelinux> and that it's being bootstrapped by an extension
[21:34:39] <mojavelinux> technically, when you bootstrap a persistence context using Persistence.createEntityManager
[21:34:45] <mojavelinux> that's called "application managed"
[21:34:58] <mojavelinux> but to your point, I like to imply that it's the extension or module that's really managing it
[21:35:36] <mojavelinux> we call them modules, but I think the general term is extension, so I'm leaning towards @ExtensionManaged
[21:35:42] <mojavelinux> but I'll let the jury speak
[21:35:44] <mojavelinux> :)
[21:35:57] <johnament> so you're the plantiff and i'm the defendent?
[21:36:28] <mojavelinux> I'm the judge, I'm just arbitrating :)
[21:36:47] <mojavelinux> and shouting out "hold that man in contempt!"
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[22:00:31] <johnament> Sigh. if you have 15 concurrent threads running that each need a database, having a pool size of 10 is never going to work.
[22:01:46] <lightguard_jp> brb
[22:02:01] <lightguard_jp> mojavelinux: if you want to start, don't forget to #startmeeting and #topic :)
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[22:04:24] <mojavelinux> and we're back
[22:04:26] <mojavelinux> #startmeeting
[22:04:34] <jbott> Meeting started Wed Mar 16 21:01:57 2011 UTC.  The chair is mojavelinux. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
[22:04:34] <jbott> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic.
[22:04:56] <jbossbot> git [forge] push master 1564c17.. Lincoln Baxter, III began refactoring ShellImpl into smaller more maintainable pieces
[22:04:56] <jbossbot> git [forge] push master e46c038.. Lincoln Baxter, III SEAMFORGE-70
[22:05:01] <jbossbot> jira [SEAMFORGE-70] Ls and Rm do not function on JavaResource members [Closed (Done) Bug, Major, Lincoln Baxter III] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMFORGE-70
[22:05:01] <jbossbot> git [forge] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/forge/compare/ac99201...e46c038
[22:05:09] <mojavelinux> #topic international concerns, vanity committing and release countdown
[22:05:58] <lincolnthree> oops, sorry :)
[22:06:00] <mojavelinux> we have stuart but shane is still snoozing...stuart, would one hour earlier be too painful?
[22:06:23] <mojavelinux> we had to shift this week because ben franklin invented dst
[22:06:26] *** kenfinnigan has joined #seam-dev
[22:06:43] <stuartdouglas> Shane is having customer meetings in Sydney today
[22:06:54] <kenfinnigan> Sorry I'm late
[22:07:17] <mojavelinux> no worries, we are still on time and date
[22:07:30] <stuartdouglas> One our earlier is 6:00am for Shane, 7:00am for me
[22:07:36] <mojavelinux> yeah, kind of painful for shane
[22:07:44] *** bitshuffler__ has quit IRC
[22:07:45] <stuartdouglas> I am fine with it, but 6 is a bit early :-)
[22:07:50] <mojavelinux> but we have guys on the east that are on the edge of the work day
[22:07:58] <jose_freitas> 6:00 is really painful
[22:08:09] <mojavelinux> we are going to try this time, which is 7 for shane, 8 for you stuart
[22:08:12] <johnament> well, what about 6am eastern?
[22:08:27] <mojavelinux> if I stay up one extra hour, I might make it :)
[22:08:30] <mojavelinux> hahaha
[22:08:47] <jose_freitas> lol
[22:09:29] <lightguard_jp> 6 AM Eastern and you won't see Cody, or myself :)
[22:09:33] <mojavelinux> #agreed try 5pm east coast to keep shane sane
[22:09:42] <lincolnthree> won't see me at 6am est
[22:09:50] <mojavelinux> yeah, hopefully that was a joke
[22:09:59] <johnament> no one else is an early bird?
[22:10:07] <lincolnthree> not unless i'm still up from the night before
[22:10:11] <mojavelinux> yep
[22:10:13] <johnament> i'm usually heading in to work at 6am...
[22:10:20] <mojavelinux> okay, so we were discussing the SeamManaged annotation
[22:10:40] <mojavelinux> which we moved into solder, but in thinking about solder as a general purpose library, it would make more sense to try to name the annotation according to it's fundtion
[22:10:44] <mojavelinux> rather than overreach the brand
[22:10:59] <mojavelinux> so, john and I were discussing ModuleManaged (john) or ExtensionManaged (dan)
[22:11:13] <mojavelinux> that way, it's not restrictive to just seam modules (for others using solder)
[22:11:23] <mojavelinux> it's the opposite of container-managed
[22:12:54] <mojavelinux> so, any votes?
[22:13:04] <mojavelinux> let's see them...we have money on it
[22:13:09] <johnament> ModuleManaged
[22:13:20] <lightguard_jp> ExtensionManaged
[22:13:23] <jose_freitas> I like ModuleManaged better
[22:13:32] <GunnarMorling> +1 for ExtensionManaged
[22:13:45] <mojavelinux> alright, come on voters
[22:13:51] <bleathem> ExtensionManaged
[22:13:52] <lincolnthree> ExtensionManaged
[22:14:02] <kenfinnigan> ExtensionManaged
[22:14:10] <lincolnthree> sorry johnament
[22:14:19] <johnament> its cool
[22:14:27] <mojavelinux> stuart, got a vote?
[22:14:36] <lincolnthree> his vote doesn't count anymore
[22:14:51] <lincolnthree> 5/2
[22:14:51] <mojavelinux> hey now, don't be dissin' the bread winner
[22:14:57] <lincolnthree> just sayin' ;)
[22:16:03] <bleathem> What's next?
[22:16:12] <mojavelinux> okay, next up...
[22:16:20] <mojavelinux> btw, we are running with a meeting bot thanks to jason
[22:16:21] <bleathem> or should we record that result in the miutes somehow
[22:16:25] <mojavelinux> for those that weren't at the party last night
[22:16:31] <lightguard_jp> Put an #agreed to that final vote please
[22:16:50] <lightguard_jp> I'm not a chair, so I can't.
[22:17:14] <bleathem> #action SeamManaged annotation shall henceforth be referred to as ExtensionManaged
[22:17:15] <mojavelinux> #agreed rename SeamManaged to ExtensionManaged to reflect it's function over branding, despite pleads by john to name it ModuleManaged
[22:17:22] <lightguard_jp> #info Vote for ModuleManged vs ExtetnionManged: 2/5
[22:17:38] <mojavelinux> #action file a jira for previous agreed
[22:17:56] <bleathem> sorry, I got a little meetbot keen there
[22:18:06] <lightguard_jp> bleathem: :)
[22:18:11] <stuartdouglas> sorry, I was having a shower, only just woke up :-)
[22:18:45] <stuartdouglas> ExtensionManaged is better than ModuleManaged though
[22:18:50] <mojavelinux> #info let the record show that john and jose put in a good fight, and lincoln tried to insult our fearless bread winner
[22:19:10] <lightguard_jp> Ouch
[22:19:19] <lightguard_jp> So let it be written....
[22:19:28] <mojavelinux> #info vote now 2/10 in favor of ExtensionManaged
[22:19:33] <lincolnthree> #rebuttal lincoln merely tried to state the fact that there wee too many votes to overcome
[22:19:36] <kenfinnigan> In bot blood
[22:19:44] <mojavelinux> because lincoln's insult means that stuart's vote doubled the side
[22:20:10] <mojavelinux> okay, upwards
[22:20:12] * lincolnthree goes back to writing awesome forge code
[22:20:16] <mojavelinux> #info onwards is now upwards
[22:20:40] <bleathem> note to self, disregard info comments in meeting minutes :P
[22:21:11] <mojavelinux> ken and I did much deliberating, and we think we worked out the division between i18n concerns in solder and international
[22:21:31] <mojavelinux> solder is going to provide the annotations for typed loggers and message bundles
[22:21:45] <bleathem> #topic division between i18n concerns in solder and international
[22:21:47] <mojavelinux> and be based on the system locale
[22:22:19] <lightguard_jp> bleathem: Topic lasts for whole meeting, and only a chair can change it
[22:22:26] <mojavelinux> and international handles all the configuration and client locale concerns, and extending the typed loggers and message bundles if we wanted to do stuff like load from a database or whatever
[22:22:50] <mojavelinux> ignore bleathem feeble attempts to change topic :)
[22:22:51] <mojavelinux> hehehe
[22:22:56] <kenfinnigan> Lol
[22:22:57] <bleathem> lightguard_jp: oh, how do we track what we're talking about?
[22:22:58] <mojavelinux> even though his actions were noble
[22:23:37] <mojavelinux> so, here is how the annotations will fall, we are looking for objections only
[22:23:39] <jose_freitas> lol
[22:23:46] <lightguard_jp> bleathem: I'd have to go over the commands again
[22:23:54] <bleathem> #commands
[22:23:59] <jbott> Available commands: #accept #accepted #action #agree #agreed #chair #commands #endmeeting #halp #help #idea #info #link #lurk #meetingname #meetingtopic #nick #rejected #restrictlogs #save #startmeeting #topic #unchair #undo #unlurk
[22:24:02] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.i18n.Message
[22:24:03] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.i18n.MessageBundle
[22:24:03] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.i18n.Locale
[22:24:03] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.i18n.Formatter
[22:24:03] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.logging.Log
[22:24:03] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.logging.MessageLogger
[22:24:03] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.logging.Category
[22:24:04] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.logging.Cause
[22:24:18] <mojavelinux> oh, there is #meetingtopic and #topic
[22:24:27] <mojavelinux> so I guess #topic is short term? well, anyway, we'll see
[22:24:41] <mojavelinux> oops
[22:24:46] <mojavelinux> sorry, that was a mistake
[22:24:49] <mojavelinux> paste again
[22:24:50] <kenfinnigan> Thought Message was in messaging not i18n?
[22:25:13] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.messages.Message
[22:25:13] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.messages.MessageBundle
[22:25:13] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.messages.Locale
[22:25:13] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.messages.Formatter
[22:25:13] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.logging.Log
[22:25:14] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.logging.MessageLogger
[22:25:14] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.logging.Category
[22:25:15] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.logging.Cause
[22:25:15] <mojavelinux> there we go
[22:25:23] <mojavelinux> and now we have this
[22:25:49] <kenfinnigan> Ok, thought I was going crazy for a sec
[22:26:10] <mojavelinux> @MessageLogger
[22:26:11] <mojavelinux> public interface MyLogMessages {
[22:26:11] <mojavelinux>    @Log(level = INFO) @Message("Seam rocks")
[22:26:11] <mojavelinux>    void seamRocks();
[22:26:11] <mojavelinux> }
[22:26:27] <mojavelinux> so some optimizations and cleanups of packaging
[22:26:36] <mojavelinux> and the status messages will be like this
[22:27:29] <mojavelinux> @StatusReporter public interface BookingStatusReporter {
[22:27:29] <mojavelinux>    @Status @Message("Hotel booked!")
[22:27:29] <mojavelinux>    void hotelBooked();
[22:27:29] <mojavelinux> }
[22:27:45] <mojavelinux> ken, we didn't work out what @StatusReporter would be yet, something parallel to @MessageLogger
[22:27:56] <mojavelinux> i'll let you ponder that unless you've worked it out already
[22:28:00] <kenfinnigan> Not @MessageBundle?
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[22:28:17] <kenfinnigan> That is the current usage
[22:28:25] <mojavelinux> oh, yeah, I guess we can double it up
[22:28:30] <mojavelinux> k
[22:28:45] <mojavelinux> cool, so that's coming along, just some heads up about that
[22:29:06] <mojavelinux> so we've been beat-up a bunch about the glassfish issues
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[22:29:42] <mojavelinux> I did a whole bunch of digging on that and if I can ever finish it, I have a blog entry that will restate our committment to portability and explain why glassfish is giving us trouble
[22:29:55] <mojavelinux> I have written some additional tests in the solder "compat" package
[22:30:04] <mojavelinux> many of which fail on glassfish 3.1 due to the same issue
[22:30:17] <bleathem> #topic glassfish 3.1 issues
[22:30:21] <mojavelinux> i'll have details, but in short here, it's the alpha bravo issue
[22:30:50] <mojavelinux> extensions and beans in an alpha.jar can see beans in the bravo.jar
[22:30:52] <mojavelinux> but not the other way around
[22:30:58] <mojavelinux> has to do with alphabetical order of jars
[22:30:59] <johnament> alpha bravo?
[22:31:03] <mojavelinux> a b
[22:31:09] <bleathem> alphabetical, really!?!
[22:31:17] <johnament> yep
[22:31:21] <mojavelinux> yep, that's why we had problems with @Inject Messages
[22:31:22] <bleathem> wow
[22:31:22] <stuartdouglas> that is retarded
[22:31:25] <johnament> makes sense
[22:31:27] <jose_freitas> holy sh**
[22:31:28] <mojavelinux> because international comes after faces
[22:31:35] <mojavelinux> and faces was like huh?
[22:31:39] <johnament> lol
[22:31:39] <mojavelinux> where is Messages?
[22:31:46] <bleathem> motion to rename faces to zFaces
[22:31:50] <mojavelinux> hahaha
[22:31:50] <kenfinnigan> Genius
[22:31:55] <johnament> rename solder to alpha
[22:32:05] <mojavelinux> yep, and that's why the Loggers are not satisified
[22:32:21] <mojavelinux> because solder can't process classes in servlet
[22:32:21] <bleathem> The fix for this will be in Weld 1.1.1?
[22:32:30] <mojavelinux> correct, according to ales
[22:32:38] <bleathem> any timeframe?
[22:33:01] <mojavelinux> not sure, just "soon"
[22:33:02] <lightguard_jp> bleathem: It's not a problem in weld
[22:33:12] <bleathem> (ie. before Seam 3.0.0.Final)
[22:33:13] <mojavelinux> actually, it is a problem in weld, in a sense
[22:33:13] <lightguard_jp> It's the integration code in glassfish
[22:33:18] <lightguard_jp> Really?
[22:33:29] <lightguard_jp> Thought it was gf integration code
[22:33:31] <stuartdouglas> I think it is actually a bit of both
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[22:33:45] <mojavelinux> yep, probably best said that way, it's sort of both needed to change to get past the problem
[22:33:51] <mojavelinux> because of the way bdas are handled in glassfish
[22:33:59] <mojavelinux> jboss as 6 is flat, so it didn't matter
[22:34:05] <mojavelinux> as 7 would have had the same issue
[22:34:13] <mojavelinux> given that it's more structured, right stuart?
[22:34:42] <stuartdouglas> yea, it has the weld related problems, but the visibility code is all correct
[22:34:57] <stuartdouglas> AS6 did not see the problems cause it did not implement the spec correctly
[22:35:11] <mojavelinux> #info glassfish 3.1 out of the box processes bdas in such a way that alphabetical order of jars affects visibility of extensions and beans
[22:35:25] <stuartdouglas> GF also has a problem where WEB-INF/lib beans cannot see WEB-INF/classes beans
[22:35:32] <stuartdouglas> and this is all them
[22:35:35] <mojavelinux> yep, that's another issue, I call that something
[22:36:26] <mojavelinux> i don't know what it was, the "don't look over your shoulder" or something hehehe
[22:36:34] <mojavelinux> glassfish 3.0.1 is definitely out for seam 3
[22:36:37] <mojavelinux> in a major way
[22:37:02] <mojavelinux> it has a serious bug in weld...where weld fails the first time it sees a reference to any class that doesn't exist
[22:37:15] <mojavelinux> which means about 50% of the seam modules will just fail outright
[22:37:25] <mojavelinux> such as persistence, which has references to Hibernate classes
[22:37:26] <stuartdouglas> that bug is still there in 1.1
[22:37:32] <stuartdouglas> It just does not show up as often
[22:37:34] <mojavelinux> ah
[22:37:44] <mojavelinux> well, I can at least use persistence on glassfish 3.1
[22:37:49] <mojavelinux> so maybe they swallow it
[22:37:49] <stuartdouglas> I did a fix for it yesterday
[22:37:57] <mojavelinux> good
[22:38:05] <mojavelinux> that's called the overeager scanner problem
[22:38:05] <bleathem> Hope it makes it in to 1.1.1
[22:38:06] <johnament> my hero
[22:38:08] <mojavelinux> hyperactive scanner
[22:38:10] <stuartdouglas> no, now it only happens if a superclass of a bean references a non-existant class
[22:38:21] <mojavelinux> I have names for all this :)
[22:38:39] <mojavelinux> we had a dangling web fragment reference in seam servlet
[22:38:43] <mojavelinux> which I committed a fix for
[22:38:47] <mojavelinux> lame
[22:39:08] <mojavelinux> in relative ordering, if you reference a web fragment like PrettyFaces
[22:39:12] <mojavelinux> and you aren't using PrettyFaces
[22:39:14] <mojavelinux> deployment fails
[22:39:25] <mojavelinux> so it sort of defeats the whole point of relative ordering
[22:39:32] <lincolnthree> that's pretty lame
[22:39:32] <mojavelinux> which happens to be kind of an important thing
[22:39:43] <mojavelinux> yep, so they committed a fix to glassfish
[22:39:47] <mojavelinux> jboss as fixed it in AS 6
[22:39:49] <mojavelinux> final
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[22:39:57] <mojavelinux> and jetty fixed it in 8.0.0.M1
[22:40:00] <mojavelinux> but Tomcat still fails
[22:40:02] <johnament> who would be using pretty faces??
[22:40:17] <bleathem> johnament you don't want to know :P
[22:40:23] <mojavelinux> actually, the real purpose was to order in relation to Weld Servlet
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[22:40:29] <mojavelinux> because that matters or else Seam Servlet fails
[22:40:39] <johnament> i heard the guy who used to work on it is now busy with CLIs.
[22:40:44] <mojavelinux> however, Weld Servlet doesn't even use a web fragment yet, so that was a premature optimization anyway
[22:41:35] <mojavelinux> our problem with not having concrete typed logger and typed message bundles classes is now behind us, thanks to james and ken
[22:41:37] <mojavelinux> they kicked ass
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[22:41:50] <mojavelinux> the annotation scanner is portable to any annotations you want to use
[22:42:00] <mojavelinux> so solder now has it's own annotations for defining these things
[22:42:10] <kenfinnigan> My pleasure. Though most of it was James
[22:42:27] <mojavelinux> and the annotation processor can be used for generating any sort of typed stuff
[22:42:31] <mojavelinux> as we go down the road
[22:42:46] <mojavelinux> good reuse of code...for now just focused on the original goal and also for the typed stuff in seam international
[22:42:48] <mojavelinux> so that can move forward
[22:43:19] <mojavelinux> more importantly, no more of this having to tell people to use the jboss.i18n.generate-proxies system property just to use seam modules
[22:43:21] <kenfinnigan> Indeed. Lots of ideas to put together
[22:43:33] <mojavelinux> so that should solve a lot of complaining
[22:43:52] <mojavelinux> now, to get seam to run on glassfish 3.1 out of the box without any visibility problems and no upgrade to weld
[22:43:57] <mojavelinux> which you know people are going to try
[22:43:59] <mojavelinux> you know it
[22:44:07] <mojavelinux> one solution is to shade all the seam modules together
[22:44:20] <mojavelinux> the other is to deal with each problem in turn
[22:44:26] <mojavelinux> which I've done all except for one problem in seam servlet
[22:44:30] <mojavelinux> which is just a pita
[22:45:06] <stuartdouglas> Does anyone know where we are with regard to a weld 1.1 release ?
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[22:45:09] <stuartdouglas> 1.1.1
[22:45:14] <kenfinnigan> +1 for fully shaded jar that can be used by those that want everything
[22:45:17] <mojavelinux> so seam booking works if you compile the branch temporary-logger-fix of seam servlet
[22:45:43] <kenfinnigan> Might also make it easier to incorporate in EAP going forward
[22:45:47] <mojavelinux> I think the seam 3.0 final release should be shaded together as an option for people that just want the "one jar to rule them all" approach
[22:46:06] <mojavelinux> plus, it will shut the codi guys up :) not that they are annoying me over this issue
[22:46:37] <mojavelinux> we are not sure where we are with a 1.1.1 release, we haven't gotten word from ales about a date
[22:46:41] <mojavelinux> he just said "soon"
[22:46:48] <bleathem> Maybe have a "web profile" shaded jar, with "essential" modules in it
[22:46:55] <mojavelinux> exactly what I was thinking
[22:46:57] <mojavelinux> you read my mind
[22:47:02] <bleathem> :D
[22:47:08] <mojavelinux> seam-web-profile.jar
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[22:47:22] <bleathem> I'd use that
[22:47:23] <kenfinnigan> Sounds good
[22:47:27] <mojavelinux> or we can just call it
[22:47:45] <mojavelinux> compare-this-to-codi-gehard.jar
[22:47:51] <bleathem> #idea seam 3.0 final release should be shaded together as an option for people that just want the "one jar to rule them all" approach
[22:47:59] <bleathem> #idea have a "web profile" shaded jar, with "essential" modules in it
[22:48:06] <bleathem> lol
[22:48:10] <bleathem> I like that name better
[22:48:28] <mojavelinux> I just love the chart where he says
[22:48:38] <mojavelinux>                        codi                        seam-faces
[22:48:47] <mojavelinux> persistence                   check                                  no
[22:48:59] <mojavelinux> right, because you get persistence from seam-faces
[22:49:26] <bleathem> The uber-seam-jar would have an inverse looking chart!
[22:49:33] <bleathem> when compared to codi
[22:49:41] <mojavelinux> yeah, we can just shade all 28 modules
[22:49:42] <mojavelinux> :)
[22:50:06] <mojavelinux> boom!
[22:50:07] <GunnarMorling> may there be an problem with dependencies?
[22:50:22] <GunnarMorling> Validation e.g. depends on HV 4.2Beta2
[22:50:24] <mojavelinux> haha, we are just kidding :)
[22:51:04] <mojavelinux> but I think having a stack jar of seam would be an attractive idea, and it's come to my mind a couple of times in the past, for the people who don't like the a la carte option
[22:51:12] <mojavelinux> microwave dinner
[22:51:29] <mojavelinux> arquillian alpha5 release is emminent
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[22:51:40] <GunnarMorling> I think the idea is generally good, too
[22:51:43] <mojavelinux> and jason got the glassfish 3.1 container adapter working for that
[22:51:48] <kenfinnigan> Might be easier for those moving from Seam 2 where it was all in one
[22:52:04] <mojavelinux> yep, just an option, it wouldn't shade dependencies, just the seam bits
[22:52:14] <mojavelinux> the dependencies would be dependencies of the shaded thing
[22:53:25] <mojavelinux> ah, almost forgot
[22:53:34] <mojavelinux> we've moved transactions into org.jboss.seam.transaction package
[22:53:43] <mojavelinux> but I think we should just go ahead and make the transaction module now
[22:53:48] <mojavelinux> because jcr is going to need it anyway
[22:54:24] <mojavelinux> #action create transaction module for seam 3.0 final release
[22:54:44] <mojavelinux> seam booking needs security in it, for two reasons
[22:54:53] <mojavelinux> 1. to prove that it isn't causing deployment problems (always a good thing)
[22:54:57] <mojavelinux> 2. to demonstrate it
[22:55:59] <mojavelinux> oh
[22:56:10] <bleathem> I'll be looking at SEAMFACES-33 next
[22:56:11] <mojavelinux> #action lincoln needs to do a proper release of render so cody can integrate it into mail
[22:56:18] <jbossbot> jira [SEAMFACES-33] Create a solution for consolidated page-flow, transactional control, security constraints and URL-rewriting configuration [Open (Unresolved) Feature Request, Blocker, Brian Leathem] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMFACES-33
[22:56:29] <bleathem> if that relates to the security in booking
[22:56:31] <mojavelinux> yep, and once that seam-faces issue is resolved, we'll integrate that into booking as well
[22:56:34] <mojavelinux> there are two parts
[22:56:39] <mojavelinux> authentication part can be done now
[22:56:50] <mojavelinux> authorization part can be done after 33
[22:57:17] <mojavelinux> I would push url-rewriting
[22:57:23] <mojavelinux> because that's a bigger issue imho
[22:57:41] <mojavelinux> and right now we are using pretty faces in booking to solve that problem...we just need to look into how to make that configuration integrated
[22:57:53] <bleathem> Do we have an issue for it?
[22:57:55] <mojavelinux> because we don't want to start over with url rewriting :)
[22:58:02] <mojavelinux> not sure, but I think it needs to be 101
[22:58:03] <mojavelinux> if not
[22:58:50] <mojavelinux> he stuart, is as 7 ready to host a cdi + jpa app?
[22:59:01] <stuartdouglas> as of yesterday, yes
[22:59:14] <mojavelinux> cause we should test the forge scaffold and the archetypes on it
[22:59:17] <mojavelinux> see whether they fly
[22:59:18] <kenfinnigan> As of beta1?
[22:59:30] <mojavelinux> likely two example apps people will try
[22:59:33] <mojavelinux> also, we should try booking
[22:59:49] <mojavelinux> btw, awesome
[23:00:15] <stuartdouglas> however given that JPA was added about 24 hours before the beta went out, and the weld integration was added about 4 hours before the beta went out, I am not giving any guarentee's
[23:00:49] <mojavelinux> hehe, got it
[23:03:24] <mojavelinux> okay, time is up...if you have extra cycles, it would be good to focus on getting bugs resolved, it would be super appreciated
[23:04:24] <mojavelinux> and before we wrap up, we have stellar news
[23:04:39] <mojavelinux> lightguard_jp is joining the Seam Team at Red Hat
[23:04:43] <lightguard_jp> :)
[23:04:51] <stuartdouglas> congratulations
[23:04:52] * lightguard_jp cheers
[23:04:58] <kenfinnigan> Congrats!
[23:05:00] <GunnarMorling> congrats :-)
[23:05:21] <lightguard_jp> Thank you all
[23:05:30] <lightguard_jp> Looking forward to hepling out more and moving things along
[23:05:38] <mojavelinux> he's been more patient than you can possibly imagine while we worked through HR
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[23:05:51] <kenfinnigan> Ciao guys. Dinner time. Should be back later
[23:05:56] <bleathem> lightguard_jp congrats!
[23:06:07] <lightguard_jp> kenfinnigan: See ya
[23:06:11] <mojavelinux> yep, now we are really going to get stuff done!
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[23:06:41] <mojavelinux> #endmeeting
[23:06:47] <jbott> Meeting ended Wed Mar 16 22:04:12 2011 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)
[23:06:47] <jbott> Minutes:        http://people.redhat.com/~manderse/irc.freenode.org/meetings/seam-dev/2011/seam-dev.2011-03-16-21.01.html
[23:06:47] <jbott> Minutes (text): http://people.redhat.com/~manderse/irc.freenode.org/meetings/seam-dev/2011/seam-dev.2011-03-16-21.01.txt
[23:06:47] <jbott> Log:            http://people.redhat.com/~manderse/irc.freenode.org/meetings/seam-dev/2011/seam-dev.2011-03-16-21.01.log.html
[23:07:10] <lightguard_jp> mojavelinux: We need to put those up on the site.
[23:08:01] <mojavelinux> yep...much simpler than having to figure out how to reference the meeting minutes in the raw logs
[23:08:15] <lightguard_jp> :)
[23:08:35] <lightguard_jp> And we get things broken down as well, action items, info, links, etc
[23:08:39] *** jharting has quit IRC
[23:08:53] <mojavelinux> I need to get better at using the tags, but that will come quickly given how much I think in tags using twitter
[23:08:56] <bleathem> Lovin' those minutes!
[23:09:08] *** bitshuffler__ has quit IRC
[23:09:15] <bleathem> this #info stuff doesn't come out in the mintues
[23:09:34] <bleathem> the #topic stuff didn't come out either
[23:09:47] <lightguard_jp> Lines need to start with the command
[23:09:55] <bleathem> mojavelinux i think if you set the meetingtopic at the beginning
[23:09:56] <lightguard_jp> Also topic doesn't work if you're not a chair
[23:10:02] <bleathem> then set the #topic throughout
[23:10:05] <mojavelinux> ah
[23:10:07] <mojavelinux> right
[23:10:10] <bleathem> the topics will be enumerated in the minutes
[23:10:13] <bleathem> would be nice
[23:10:17] <mojavelinux> info lines just dont' have a prefix
[23:10:22] <lightguard_jp> Yep
[23:11:15] <jbossbot> git [forge] push master ad4925a.. Lincoln Baxter, III SEAMFORGE-71
[23:11:16] <jbossbot> jira [SEAMFORGE-71] LsMavenPom plugin does not list repositories [Closed (Done) Enhancement, Minor, Lincoln Baxter III] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMFORGE-71
[23:11:16] <jbossbot> git [forge] push master 9f9a5fd.. Lincoln Baxter, III SEAMFORGE-72
[23:11:17] <jbossbot> jira [SEAMFORGE-72] ShellPrompt.promptEnum() fails to match enum if trailing whitespace is entered [Closed (Done) Bug, Major, Lincoln Baxter III] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SEAMFORGE-72
[23:11:17] <jbossbot> git [forge] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/forge/compare/e46c038...9f9a5fd
[23:11:25] <GunnarMorling> bye, nice meeting you guys :-)
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[23:13:19] <bleathem> bye!
[23:13:26] <bleathem> too late
[23:13:30] <lincolnthree> bleathem: owned
[23:13:43] <bleathem> used to that!
[23:14:29] <mojavelinux> I like how lincoln and max argue on twitter, then on jira, then on twitter again, then back to jira
[23:14:54] <mojavelinux> it's like they are walking through the hallways bickering :)
[23:14:55] <mojavelinux> hehehe
[23:15:14] <lincolnthree> I'm right
[23:15:32] <mojavelinux> bleathem: did you see my idea about @DataModel
[23:15:41] <mojavelinux> we could duplicate the @DataModel annotation that Seam 2 had
[23:15:51] <mojavelinux> by registering a replacment producer method
[23:15:51] <bleathem> is it a jira issue?
[23:16:01] <mojavelinux> that produces a DataModel instead of collection
[23:16:05] <mojavelinux> so like this
[23:16:22] <bleathem> Oh yeah, I saw that fly by on IRC earlier today
[23:16:44] <mojavelinux> @Produces @DataModel public List<Stuff> getStuff() {}
[23:16:55] <mojavelinux> this builds on what we were talking about last night, sort of
[23:17:36] <mojavelinux> but the idea that you can use producer methods as a template, and register replacement ones, or complementary ones
[23:17:38] <mojavelinux> solder makes this easy
[23:17:47] <mojavelinux> we just have to decide if we want to support
[23:17:59] <mojavelinux> @Inject @DataModelSelection Stuff selection;
[23:18:23] <bleathem> I think I'm missing the bigger picture...
[23:18:25] <mojavelinux> might have to do some thinking, but I can put in a jira for it, not for 3.0, but for post
[23:18:35] <bleathem> maybe cause I don't have the Seam 2 frame of reference to fall back on
[23:18:37] <mojavelinux> are you familiar with the feature in Seam 2?
[23:18:39] <mojavelinux> ah
[23:18:47] <mojavelinux> okay, so it's like an adapter for datatables
[23:18:55] <bleathem> I read your book, (errr... most of it)
[23:19:02] <mojavelinux> it allows you to inject the row that received the action
[23:19:04] <bleathem> that's about my experience with Seam 2
[23:19:24] <bleathem> ok, nice
[23:19:30] <mojavelinux> but to do that, you have to attach a DataModel to the table instead of a List
[23:19:36] <mojavelinux> so it is done transparently
[23:19:40] <mojavelinux> as though you are just using a List
[23:19:46] <bleathem> Kind of unnecessary with Arguments in EL, no?
[23:19:57] <mojavelinux> true, that sort of erases it
[23:20:17] <mojavelinux> so it might in the end just be a superfluous idea
[23:20:23] <bleathem> But I guess there are some things you can do with the row that you can't do with the bound object
[23:20:36] <mojavelinux> well, you would just get the object in the end
[23:20:43] <bleathem> I'd say the idea is worth traking in jira
[23:20:57] <mojavelinux> truthfully, you are right, the whole thing was needed because there was no support for method arguments in EL
[23:21:09] <mojavelinux> and that's about a million times more flexible
[23:21:38] <bleathem> Something for the Seam 2 migration guide then!
[23:21:45] <mojavelinux> I think so, exactly
[23:22:03] <mojavelinux> I think it's time for me to start writing this crap down...wrote it down
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[23:31:03] <clerum> lightguard_jp: congrats on the promotion
[23:33:44] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master acfc758.. Dan Allen SOLDER-83 rename SeamManaged to ExtensionManaged
[23:33:45] <jbossbot> jira [SOLDER-83] rename SeamManaged to ExtensionManaged [Open (Unresolved) Enhancement, Major, Unassigned] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/SOLDER-83
[23:33:45] <jbossbot> git [solder] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/solder/compare/ac52454...acfc758
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[23:34:42] <gastaldi> hey !!
[23:34:59] <bleathem> *crickets*
[23:35:14] <gastaldi> lol, you never get tired of this stuff ?
[23:35:17] <gastaldi> hehe
[23:35:39] <bleathem> You wouldn't say that if you saw how much I was grinning right now!
[23:36:15] <lincolnthree> *chirp*
[23:36:38] <lightguard_jp> haha
[23:36:41] <lightguard_jp> *tweet*
[23:36:54] <gastaldi> *kaplunk*
[23:37:06] <gastaldi> Any Don Martin fans in here ?
[23:37:11] <bleathem> Are these commands for some new IRC bot?
[23:37:30] <bleathem> Never heard of Don Martin
[23:37:36] <gastaldi> Mad Magazine ?
[23:37:57] <bleathem> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Martin_%28cartoonist%29
[23:38:10] <gastaldi> yeah
[23:38:17] <bleathem> "His people are big-nosed schmoes with sleepy eyes, puffs of wiry hair, and what appear to be life preservers under the waistline of their clothes."
[23:38:29] <gastaldi> BREEDEET
[23:38:39] <bleathem> PLORTCH
[23:39:03] <gastaldi> FAGROON klubble klubble
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[23:52:47] <mojavelinux> check out this blog on seam 3
[23:52:53] <mojavelinux> http://hannelita.wordpress.com/2011/02/22/seam3/
[23:52:57] <mojavelinux> chrome should translate it for you
[23:53:01] <mojavelinux> check out this nugget
[23:53:08] <mojavelinux> "Seam JMS - This one is the good too! Injection of JMS and events. I intend to make a very special post just this module, because if I start talking about it here, you do not have the patience to go until the end of the post."
[23:53:49] <mojavelinux> "Seam REST - This one is my favorite! Name enlightening REST module Seam. Special post for him in the coming days!"
[23:55:34] <mojavelinux> jose do you know hannelita?
[23:57:05] <jose_freitas> sorry
[23:57:11] <jose_freitas> hannelita?
[23:57:13] <jose_freitas> nope
[23:57:25] 
[23:57:31] <jose_freitas> let me google for it
[23:58:21] <jose_freitas> is hannelita a person?
[23:58:22] <mojavelinux> ah, it's hanneli
[23:59:01] <mojavelinux> she follows the Seam activity, wondering when we might see her around ... I think she runs the jbug in brazil
[23:59:06] <mojavelinux> or at least participates in it
[23:59:32] <mojavelinux> she's also been doing seam 3 presentations
[23:59:58] <mojavelinux> Developer at SOAExpert





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