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[08:45:55] <mojavelinux> agenda items for community meeting posted
[08:45:56] <mojavelinux> ./impl/src/main/java/org/jboss/weld/bean/ManagedBean.java
[08:46:03] <mojavelinux> oops, paste fail
[08:46:06] <mojavelinux> http://seamframework.org/Seam3/ProjectMeetings
[08:46:24] <mojavelinux> I've also linked to all the previous meetings...we are just going to link rather than copy the transcript, which was too much work
[08:46:29] <mojavelinux> see ya in the morning!
[09:00:05] <maxandersen> morning - can someone verify if Seam 1 and Seam 2+ *always* need to have JSF_CONFIG_NAME setup for AS 6 to say Mojarra-1.2 ?
[09:00:32] <maxandersen> this is in context of JBIDE-7932 to have seam projects created to work on AS6 ?
[09:00:34] <jbossbot> jira [JBIDE-7932] New Seam EAR project fails to deploy to JBoss AS 6 CR1 [Open, Critical, Snjezana Peco] https://issues.jboss.org/browse/JBIDE-7932
[09:05:37] <stuartdouglas> maxandersen: AFAIK seam 2 is not compatible with JSF 2
[09:06:36] <maxandersen> stuartdouglas: yes but will that parameter *always* be required for Seam 2.2+ ??
[09:08:05] <stuartdouglas> I don't know, I know there has been quite a bit of demand for a seam 2 version that works with JSF2 JPA2 etc
[09:08:31] <stuartdouglas> but I don't know if that is actually scheduled
[09:08:50] <stuartdouglas> or if it is ever actually going to happen :-)
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[09:15:08] <maxandersen> stuartdouglas: k - emailed directly to the usual JSF/Seam suspects ;)
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[11:19:13] <jbossbot> git [config] push master 6e345f2.. Stuart Douglas Minor readme fix
[11:19:14] <jbossbot> git [config] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/config/compare/6206cf8...6e345f2
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[11:47:59] <jose_freitas> morning
[11:57:20] <jose_freitas> is seamfaces and seaminternation still using weld-extensions.jar?
[11:59:08] <jose_freitas> are*
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[14:12:50] <jose_freitas> the meeting should be by not?
[14:12:57] <jose_freitas> by now*
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[14:30:30] <jharting> jose_freitas: it starts at 3pm UTC
[14:31:47] <jose_freitas> I thought it was 2pm UTC
[14:31:49] <jose_freitas> thanks
[14:32:40] <jharting> ping stuartdouglas
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[15:35:58] <mojavelinux> here is the meeting time, http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=15&month=4&year=2010&hour=15&min=00&sec=0&p1=90 but we'll be discussing a change today
[15:36:12] <mojavelinux> honestly, it's best to work with timeanddate.com links
[15:36:21] <mojavelinux> because it's just impossible to get right otherwise
[15:36:34] <mojavelinux> of course, Ken will write us a nice little example app that will make it even easier :)
[15:36:35] <mojavelinux> hehehe
[15:37:00] <marekn> mojavelinux: :-) but you should forget on summer saving time
[15:37:17] <marekn> mojavelinux: shouldn't
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[15:38:38] <mojavelinux> agenda items for today here: http://seamframework.org/Seam3/ProjectMeetings
[15:39:03] <mojavelinux> we might not get to all of that...we have a bit of a backlog atm
[15:39:15] <mojavelinux> I'll try to cover the small stuff quickly, so it will just be some announcements
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[15:43:10] <jose_freitas> I just realized that timeanddate does not consider summer saving time for my region
[15:44:21] <AndChat|> Morning all. Still can't figure out nicknames in AndChat! Ken here
[15:47:07] <mojavelinux> hehehe
[15:47:15] <mojavelinux> I remember setting it up, but forget the details
[15:48:07] <AndChat|> Unfortunately not a simple case of setting preferred nickname
[15:48:59] <mojavelinux> okay, so Brisbane does not have DST...so either the meeting time moves for people in US, Canada and Europe
[15:49:03] <mojavelinux> or it moves for Shane
[15:49:06] <mojavelinux> at the turnover
[15:49:12] <mojavelinux> we'll discuss
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[16:01:28] <mojavelinux> meeting starting in 5 minutes
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[16:01:44] <mojavelinux> we actually have an agenda today...part of the new outlook for Seam :)
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[16:03:48] <mojavelinux> http://seamframework.org/Seam3/ProjectMeetings
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[16:05:15] <mojavelinux> hello everyone
[16:05:27] <mojavelinux> I hope your day is going better than lincoln's :(
[16:05:44] <mojavelinux> he threw his computer in a bathtub in a fit of rage
[16:05:45] <mojavelinux> :)
[16:05:50] <mojavelinux> just kidding
[16:05:51] <jose_freitas> lol
[16:06:26] <mojavelinux> glad you all could make it
[16:07:07] <mojavelinux> I want to start with some admin and announcement stuff (I know, your favorite part)
[16:07:47] <mojavelinux> to make it easier on Shane, important since he's now the lead, and having the lead not typing zzzzzzzzzzzzz with his nose into the chat window
[16:07:52] <mojavelinux> we are going to switch the time for the meeting
[16:08:08] <mojavelinux> the proposal is 22:00:00 UTC a fixed time for Brisbane at 08:00 AM
[16:08:16] <mojavelinux> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=6&month=1&year=2010&hour=22&min=00&sec=0&p1=90
[16:08:29] <mojavelinux> for the rest of us the time will fluctuate
[16:08:45] <mojavelinux> 16 EST, 14 MST winter
[16:08:50] <mojavelinux> sorry
[16:09:20] <mojavelinux> 17:00 EST, 15:00 MST winter
[16:09:34] <mojavelinux> 18:00 EST, 16:00 MST summer
[16:10:12] <mojavelinux> unless Shane is willing to switch his time mid-year
[16:10:15] <mojavelinux> fixing it for the rest of us
[16:10:35] <mojavelinux> is that agreeable to everyone (or most)...does it cause any problems?
[16:10:54] <mojavelinux> I should think it's better that it's more of an off work hour for community contributors, is that a good assumption?
[16:11:12] <kenfinnigan> fine with me, makes it more likely i can attend regularly
[16:11:21] <jharting> mojavelinux: I can live with that
[16:12:09] <mojavelinux> most excellent...yeah, sorry about Europe guys, I know it's late...but someone has to burn the late night candle, unfortunately
[16:12:57] <mojavelinux> since we don't have to deal with the time shift until March, I think for now we are settled on UTC 22:00:00
[16:13:19] <mojavelinux> second some quick announcements
[16:13:35] <mojavelinux> I'm working on a new JIRA configuration for Seam modules
[16:13:39] <mojavelinux> that first and foremost
[16:13:48] <mojavelinux> will let you mark an issue as "Pull Request Sent"
[16:13:54] <mojavelinux> rather than "Resolved"
[16:14:00] <mojavelinux> rather than using "Resolved" for that purpose
[16:14:12] <mojavelinux> this drastically simplifies things for module leads and ensures your Pull Request doesn't get lost
[16:14:24] <mojavelinux> the screen has a field for entering the URL, which is then associated with the issue
[16:14:25] <clerum> works for me
[16:14:37] <mojavelinux> Jason and I are prototyping in the Catch module
[16:14:45] <mojavelinux> I've also paired down the issue types to 5
[16:15:07] <mojavelinux> Bug, Feature Request, Enhancement (new type), Library Upgrade, Task
[16:15:15] <mojavelinux> task should be used the least
[16:15:49] <mojavelinux> later on we'll be looking at a documentation, QA workflow, though not as pressing as having the workflow for the Pull Requests
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[16:16:13] <mojavelinux> I'm totally fine with communicating about the pull request in the github pull request
[16:16:21] <mojavelinux> all that really matters is that it's linked to the issue
[16:16:33] <jose_freitas> nice
[16:16:42] <mojavelinux> we'll apply these changes to the Seam modules in a week or two (rolling)
[16:16:55] <mojavelinux> I'm going to explore the QA workflow with QE
[16:17:03] <mojavelinux> and the documentation workflow I still need to experiment with
[16:17:13] <mojavelinux> the idea is that it makes it easier for these teams to know how to help
[16:17:17] <mojavelinux> otherwise, it's like wild west
[16:17:25] <mojavelinux> Hudson
[16:17:30] <mojavelinux> the Hudson you see is a read-only mirror
[16:17:35] <mojavelinux> if you get a failure
[16:17:42] <mojavelinux> and it isn't a problem with the test suite
[16:18:00] <mojavelinux> you should not have to fix it, that is QE's domain
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[16:18:11] <mojavelinux> this is explained on the BuildJobs page http://seamframework.org/Seam3/BuildJobs
[16:18:24] <mojavelinux> QE, you own that page
[16:18:49] <mojavelinux> so if you want the committers to do something different, feel free to change the steps
[16:18:54] <mojavelinux> instructions
[16:19:07] <mojavelinux> in fact, having a Seam QE project might be the best way to solve this
[16:19:18] <mojavelinux> so you can track it in a JIRA
[16:19:38] <mojavelinux> it's not good to track it in the module jira because the module lead cannot solve the problem...so it's just sort of an annoyance
[16:19:50] <mojavelinux> office hours
[16:20:12] <mojavelinux> I really want to help module leads, and the same goes for lincoln, shane, etc
[16:20:33] <mojavelinux> however, I'm finding I'm having trouble working out when to help...so I have an idea of setting up office hours in irc
[16:20:50] <mojavelinux> these are times when I'll set aside to work with you threw problems...maybe twice a week and 2 ~ 3 hours
[16:21:00] <mojavelinux> think of it like office hours in college w/ your TA
[16:21:15] <mojavelinux> that way, you know when you can plan to have help or guidance
[16:21:22] <clerum> +1
[16:21:39] <clerum> sometimes all we need is 20 minutes and that will let us move forward for another week
[16:21:39] <mojavelinux> I haven't figured out the best time yet, but I'll send some proposals out via a doodle or something and we can vote
[16:21:46] <mojavelinux> because if you can't make it, not much good
[16:21:50] <mojavelinux> yep
[16:21:54] <mojavelinux> exactly
[16:22:04] <jose_freitas> is this office hours specifically dedicated to project leaders?
[16:22:09] <mojavelinux> so I think 2 hours is probably good (cause there are a lot of modules, so a lot of 20 minutes) :)
[16:22:28] <mojavelinux> office hours will sort of become like our touch points in IRC, for those of us who are running around like madmen
[16:23:27] <mojavelinux> times when at least one or two project team members (basically people from Red Hat or any community volunteer who is willing to act as a "TA")
[16:23:34] <mojavelinux> are present and helping
[16:23:41] <mojavelinux> of course, you may have adhoc help
[16:23:43] <mojavelinux> that's organic
[16:23:51] <mojavelinux> problem is, organic is not working by itself
[16:24:02] <mojavelinux> because we just end up missing each other some weeks and we stall
[16:24:21] <mojavelinux> okay, so I'll do a doodle and we can experiement with that...of course, feedback is absolutely essential
[16:24:46] <mojavelinux> so if it isn't working, just say so
[16:24:56] <mojavelinux> last up is social media strategy
[16:25:02] <mojavelinux> if you are approached to do an interview about Seam
[16:25:23] <mojavelinux> or you want to write a Seam article (like for a publication or news site, blog entries excluded)
[16:25:31] <mojavelinux> please CC me
[16:25:42] <mojavelinux> and I can help you out with it
[16:25:52] <mojavelinux> two reasons we want this
[16:26:15] <mojavelinux> first, if I know about it, I can help promote it (rather than me finding out about it on twitter, then doing it after the fact)
[16:27:10] <mojavelinux> and second, I can help you tune the message, I'm not going to squash any creativity or visions, but I just want to be a resource to you for that
[16:27:23] <mojavelinux> Jason and I worked together on his interview for JAX and I think it really worked out nicely
[16:27:54] <mojavelinux> if you want to do an interview or article to help promote your module, again, I'm your guy...I can help match you up
[16:28:00] <mojavelinux> we have a good relationship with DZone and JAXenter
[16:28:32] <mojavelinux> so that's just a heads up so you know how to approach social media...feel free to tweet like crazy
[16:28:36] <mojavelinux> :)
[16:29:04] <mojavelinux> if people are complaining about Seam, remind them that this is OSS and they can fork and commit changes ;)
[16:29:34] <mojavelinux> okay, enough stream of consciousness, let's get into actual discussions
[16:29:57] <mojavelinux> Seam Solder...I know you guys need it, but we also promised GlassFish portability
[16:30:22] <mojavelinux> so the question is, who can help solve this issue so that we can actually release Seam Solder 3.0.0.Beta2?
[16:30:32] <mojavelinux> we need a) assessment and communication of exactly what the heck the issue is
[16:30:44] <mojavelinux> b) a solution that can be implemented asap
[16:30:57] <mojavelinux> I don't care if we have to add beans.xml back into Solder in the short term if that's the solution
[16:31:06] <mojavelinux> I just want it to work on GlassFish
[16:31:19] <mojavelinux> volunteers to pitch in?
[16:31:54] <mojavelinux> my idea for solving the problem is, start with a new project, add an extension and figure out at what point GlassFish breaks...which feature in Solder did we add in that broke it
[16:33:33] <jharting> mojavelinux: not sure if the latest news reached you, but me and pete have been helping siva from the GF team getting the catch-jaxrs example run (getting past the solder issue) and in the latest nightly snapshot of 3.1 the app works - it is an older version with weldx and I haven't tried solder yet, but the root cause has probably been fixed already on GF side
[16:33:52] <mojavelinux> good
[16:34:49] <mojavelinux> however, the phrase "news reached you" is actually part of the issue we've been having...this conversation should be ideally happening on seam-dev...because I lot of people are misinformed and managing the complaining on twitter has been quite a challenge
[16:34:59] <mojavelinux> so if we can get a summary of this issue posted on seam-dev, that would be fantastic
[16:35:14] <mojavelinux> also, the question to ask is...does that mean glassfish 3.0.x is totally out
[16:35:31] <mojavelinux> or can we package solder in a way that allows it to work on glassfish 3.0.x (like with a qualifier artifact)
[16:35:36] <jharting> mojavelinux: not sure about 3.0 really
[16:35:40] <mojavelinux> k
[16:36:44] <mojavelinux> could you paste the conclusion in a comment on the solder jira (if it isn't already there)
[16:37:10] <jharting> mojavelinux: sure
[16:37:44] <mojavelinux> as much as possible, I want to get away from the "it's fixed" style of response (just a general statement, not calling this scenario out or anything)
[16:38:15] <mojavelinux> we need to say "it's fixed because this was broken and here is how it was patched" either a link to patch or a quick explanation
[16:38:19] <mojavelinux> we don't learn from "it's fixed"
[16:38:23] <mojavelinux> is my point
[16:39:10] <mojavelinux> we will be so much more successful with that approach, imo and that's good for all of us :)
[16:39:24] <mojavelinux> moving on to guava
[16:39:36] <mojavelinux> several module leads have asked if they can use additional utility libraries
[16:39:42] <mojavelinux> some commons-*, some asking for guava
[16:39:55] <mojavelinux> it's abundantly clear that Java is lacking in some critical areas
[16:40:10] <mojavelinux> and we need something
[16:40:24] <mojavelinux> we've already imported the collections package from guava into Solder
[16:40:32] <mojavelinux> so I see that we have three options
[16:40:38] <mojavelinux> 1. add a dependency on guava
[16:40:51] <mojavelinux> 2. bundle and repackage guava at package time into org.jboss.seam.solder.guava
[16:41:22] <mojavelinux> 3. take a fixed, stable version of guava and repackage it into org.jboss.seam.solder.util as a permanent import
[16:41:48] <mojavelinux> #3 would mean that if we wanted to upgrade, we would have to repeat this process...which is fine as long as we track which version we are using
[16:41:54] <mojavelinux> I don't want to maintain Guava
[16:42:03] <mojavelinux> we should be using a real release, one way or another
[16:42:25] <mojavelinux> only option #1 uses the original guava package name
[16:42:41] <mojavelinux> should I doodle this question for follow up?
[16:42:53] <mojavelinux> or can we vote on it here...at least as a proposal
[16:43:22] <mojavelinux> who dislikes #1?
[16:43:44] <clerum> probably need a doodle as I don't think there is a quorum in here
[16:44:08] <mojavelinux> k
[16:44:27] <mojavelinux> personally, I think #3 would be the most palatable to Pete's original argument that we don't want to have dependencies
[16:44:40] <mojavelinux> and since we imported the collections package, f-it, let's just import the whole library
[16:44:45] <clerum> right now guava is about 1MB
[16:44:48] <mojavelinux> it's like 2K
[16:45:04] <mojavelinux> are you sure that's the classes
[16:45:10] <mojavelinux> what is the size of the classes
[16:45:13] <mojavelinux> ?
[16:45:18] <clerum> the jar is
[16:45:20] <jose_freitas> are you going to use just the guava.collect package?
[16:45:23] <clerum> the current guava jar
[16:45:33] <mojavelinux> we want everything...though we can prune
[16:45:43] <mojavelinux> if we document it, but I think half way is just asking for problems
[16:45:45] <clerum> collect is the bulk of it
[16:45:57] <mojavelinux> we either import the library or we don't (by import I mean steal it into our own codebase)
[16:46:06] <mojavelinux> does it have the string utils?
[16:46:26] <clerum> thats in base
[16:46:30] <mojavelinux> perfect
[16:46:42] <clerum> guava is all of it
[16:46:46] <mojavelinux> btw, I think we should do the same with jboss-logging
[16:46:52] <clerum> google collections grew into guava
[16:46:54] <mojavelinux> I want it to be org.jboss.seam.solder.log
[16:47:06] <mojavelinux> we just import a fixed version of jboss logging into solder
[16:47:07] <clerum> so no external dep?
[16:47:15] <kenfinnigan> agree that option 3 fits best with Pete's original musings
[16:47:18] <mojavelinux> that way, solder is no deps, but effectively it does
[16:47:21] <mojavelinux> perfect
[16:47:27] <mojavelinux> I'll doodle, but I think we have a direction
[16:47:45] <mojavelinux> okay, we are going long here, so one last thing
[16:47:50] <mojavelinux> before I just open the floor
[16:47:50] <kenfinnigan> like the logging in solder idea
[16:47:55] <mojavelinux> module roadmaps
[16:48:12] <mojavelinux> please, if you can, think further ahead than the next release
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[16:48:41] <mojavelinux> the dates can be a guess, what's more important is that you establish a plan...we are all about planning in 2011
[16:49:15] <mojavelinux> you don't have to make it a huge task...just sketch out some versions in JIRA
[16:49:23] <mojavelinux> and have rough goals as to what belongs in them by moving around JIRAs
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[16:49:44] <mojavelinux> because if you document what needs to be done, you'll have a much better chance of attracting some help
[16:49:54] <mojavelinux> 1 hour pays huge dividends
[16:51:13] <mojavelinux> of course, we will help you get them updated...could be something we spend time on in "office hours"
[16:51:52] <mojavelinux> okay, rome wasn't built in a day, so i'll stop yammering there...if you have any points, the floor is open
[16:52:26] <clerum> pmuir got my permissions bumped up on jira this week so I go through and fix up seammail
[16:52:41] <mojavelinux> awesome...yes, btw, Shane and I are JIRA admins
[16:52:50] <mojavelinux> so if you need tweaks or permission changes, you can hit us up
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[16:53:59] <mojavelinux> shane and I agreed this morning that mail is esssential for a Seam 3 release :)
[16:54:10] <clerum> on the seam 2 front
[16:54:28] <clerum> the plan is to finish 2.2.1
[16:54:38] <clerum> then do a quick 2.2.2 with jsf2 + faclets 2.0 support?
[16:54:58] <mojavelinux> yes, marekn
[16:55:21] <marekn> clerum: yes, definitely
[16:55:24] <clerum> seam is getting slammed quite a bit for being useless with primefaces
[16:55:31] <mojavelinux> really slammed
[16:55:34] <mojavelinux> super slammed
[16:56:06] <jose_freitas> seam 3?
[16:56:17] <clerum> seam 2
[16:56:22] <marekn> mojavelinux: wdyt about my email from yesterday about JSF2?
[16:56:49] <clerum> seam 2 is incompatable with facelets 2 and primefaces 2 is incompatable with facelets 1.2
[16:57:02] <mojavelinux> I'm absoltely in favor of two JARs
[16:57:08] <mojavelinux> or parallel builds
[16:57:14] <jose_freitas> I see
[16:57:17] <mojavelinux> because trying to make one size fits all is going to make unhappy people
[16:57:32] <clerum> thats what RF did and I'm fine with it
[16:57:41] <clerum> a 1.2 impl and a 2.0 impl
[16:57:45] <mojavelinux> exactly
[16:57:49] <mojavelinux> otherwise, it's just hack city
[16:58:10] <marekn> i agree, because now are screamming JSF2 fans and later will screamming JSF12 fans ;-)
[16:58:12] <mojavelinux> plus, we will get there sooner, which imo is the most important thing
[16:58:29] <mojavelinux> exactly, well put marekn
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[16:59:25] <mojavelinux> marekn one other thing is maven archetypes...I know this is a bit of a sore spot, but I have Red Hat people asking me how to start with a Seam 2 project in Maven
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[16:59:42] <mojavelinux> I think we need to find an archetype that actually works
[16:59:46] <mojavelinux> and shove it into a Hudson build
[16:59:51] <mojavelinux> or something
[16:59:57] <mojavelinux> how about this?
[17:00:02] <mojavelinux> in 2.3, can we include a Maven example?
[17:00:09] <mojavelinux> Maven-based example
[17:00:14] <mojavelinux> built from an archetype or something
[17:00:18] <mojavelinux> just a hello world page
[17:00:34] <mojavelinux> because people are lost in this category, I we get hammered for it all the time
[17:00:35] <clerum> still using ant, or not supporting SeamTest?
[17:00:42] <mojavelinux> whatever the people want
[17:00:48] <mojavelinux> or whatever that use, really?
[17:00:56] <mojavelinux> oops
[17:00:58] <mojavelinux> no ?
[17:01:19] <mojavelinux> whatever is the best configuration...we still look like we are clueless in this category
[17:01:26] <marekn> mojavelinux: I saw some archetypes mainly in m2eclipse and I found them out dated
[17:01:27] <mojavelinux> and frankly, it's been because we've completely ignored the problem
[17:01:29] <mojavelinux> which is not good
[17:02:01] <mojavelinux> marekn I say we find an archetype that works and "borrow" it into 2.3
[17:02:07] <mojavelinux> I'm not sure if we want an archetype or an example
[17:02:18] <mojavelinux> the example would be easier, because archetypes require a special reverse engineering style build
[17:02:26] <mojavelinux> so that's up to you
[17:02:47] <mojavelinux> but I think we need a Maven story for Seam 2...it's a little late for this, but at the same time, it's amazing how many people still ask for it
[17:02:52] <mojavelinux> so it will be appreciated
[17:03:01] <mojavelinux> and, it will be pretty fun I think
[17:03:03] <marekn> I agree that a real example is the key
[17:03:13] <mojavelinux> it's something new for Seam 2
[17:03:17] <mojavelinux> and that's cool
[17:03:43] <mojavelinux> I guarantee if you post on Seam 2 forums
[17:03:50] <mojavelinux> if anyone uses Maven 2 and would like to help
[17:03:53] <mojavelinux> you will draw a crowd
[17:04:34] <mojavelinux> so that's my recommendation, just put out a post that says in 2.3 we would like to do a Maven-based example and we are looking for someone who has a project layout that they find to work well
[17:04:37] <mojavelinux> and we'll adopt itttt
[17:04:40] <marekn> I know about some succesfull seam in maven stories ;-), e.g from Chris Bredessen
[17:04:46] <mojavelinux> perfect
[17:04:57] <mojavelinux> you'll be famous overnight :)
[17:05:09] <marekn> :-
[17:05:12] <marekn> :-)
[17:05:24] <mojavelinux> also, an ARquillian example with Seam 2 would be huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge
[17:05:31] <mojavelinux> and you already have a guy dedicated to making it happen
[17:05:35] <mojavelinux> Michael Shuetz
[17:05:42] <mojavelinux> I can put you in touch if you aren't already chatting with him
[17:05:42] <marekn> mojavelinux: I had this on my tongue ;-)
[17:05:47] <mojavelinux> awesome!
[17:06:14] <clerum> seam 2 + arquillian?
[17:06:21] <clerum> that would be huge
[17:06:24] <marekn> no I am not, but I saw some forum comments from him about seam 2 and arquillian test case
[17:06:33] <aslak> Michael has examples and a talk on Arq + Seam 2, he's currently working on a Seam 2 extension, that will automate a lot of what he has done in thebackground
[17:07:19] <mojavelinux> excellent...involving marekn on this will guarantee success ;) and this is a huge feature not only for community but for Red Hat customers as well
[17:07:20] <marekn> unfortunatelly I wasnt at JBUG in Berlin last year
[17:07:36] <mojavelinux> it could be one of the biggest things that happens to Seam 2 since Seam 2
[17:07:50] <mojavelinux> Maven + Seam 2 + Arquillian
[17:07:51] <mojavelinux> wow
[17:07:54] <aslak> https://github.com/michaelschuetz/seamArquillian-judcon2010
[17:08:07] <marekn> mojavelinux: definitelly my head is spinning when I hear about jboss embedded :-D
[17:08:29] <marekn> aslak, thanks
[17:08:40] <mojavelinux> yeah, I say we just dunk that and say in 2.3 we recommend Arquillian...with a little migration guide to wean off SeamTest
[17:08:53] <mojavelinux> again, up to you
[17:09:01] <mojavelinux> but feel free to take it in that direction
[17:09:16] <mojavelinux> if people can write tests, that's all they care about...how it happens, the easier the better
[17:09:18] <marekn> mojavelinux: you are saying my words
[17:09:23] <mojavelinux> super
[17:10:05] <mojavelinux> fantastic, so glad
[17:11:06] <aslak> talking seam 2 on jboss 5 or 6? or both
[17:11:30] <marekn> aslak: it should run on both
[17:11:34] <mojavelinux> yep
[17:12:14] <mojavelinux> I won't hold you guys up, so we'll put an endline on the meeting, feel free to continue discussing of course
[17:15:19] <marekn> np
[17:16:17] <marekn> I will look at Michael's examples and will see what I can do with it
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[17:30:23] <jose_freitas> Can I ask what is the advantage of avoid explicit dependency and incorporate a lib inside seam jar?
[17:30:48] <kenfinnigan> mojavelinux: are you free to discuss i18n?
[17:31:26] <mojavelinux> is there a time a bit later today that we could discuss? what's your next available time? because I haven't stood up since 7:00 AM
[17:31:37] <mojavelinux> but today would work
[17:32:00] <mojavelinux> the advantage is that people are turned off by dependencies for a core library (hence why guava has no dependencies)
[17:32:08] <mojavelinux> second, application servers leak classes
[17:32:18] <mojavelinux> and while it's fine for things like application or seam modules
[17:32:30] <kenfinnigan> ouch! should have time until 4pm or after 9pm
[17:32:33] <mojavelinux> solder is likely low level enough that it will end up bundled in an app server
[17:32:47] <mojavelinux> how about 2pm
[17:33:04] <mojavelinux> I need to refresh my memory on it anyway
[17:33:23] <kenfinnigan> can we make it half past as i have a half hr call at 2pm?
[17:33:40] <mojavelinux> sure, either 2:30 or 3, whatever is best for you
[17:33:57] <mojavelinux> and if for some reason that falls through, I'll say 10:00pm as a backup
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[17:34:30] <kenfinnigan> 2:30 is fine for me, with 10 as backup
[17:34:35] <mojavelinux> excellent
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[17:58:55] <jose_freitas> is there a known issue with @produces/@observes recognizing a business method in a no-interface ejb?
[17:59:06] <jose_freitas> talking about seam3
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[18:08:19] <lightguard_jp> No meeting again today?
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[18:24:05] <bleathem> lightguard_jp meeting ended at 8am
[18:24:18] <bleathem> err. 1hour and 20 minutes ago
[18:24:27] <lightguard_jp> Started and ended at 8am?
[18:24:33] <lightguard_jp> I looked at the logs, nothing.
[18:24:41] <bleathem> hmm.
[18:24:59] <bleathem> weird, I logged in at 7:45 PST, and the meeting was in full swing
[18:25:24] <lightguard_jp> Hrm
[18:25:29] <lightguard_jp> Okay, what did I miss?
[18:25:57] <lightguard_jp> Looks like I might have had a bad cache of the log in my browser
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[18:27:12] <bleathem> when I tuned in, the discussion was on Seam 2, maven and Arquillian
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[18:27:29] <bleathem> I didn't pay too much attention
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[18:30:27] <mojavelinux> the first order of business was new meeting timeeee
[18:30:34] <mojavelinux> so now it should be much more clear :)
[18:30:39] <mojavelinux> off to lunch
[18:32:38] <lightguard_jp> I'm reading the backlog now
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[18:38:59] <bleathem> Anyone no how to put a UTC entry into google calendar?
[18:44:55] <bleathem> Answer: Chooze the united Kingdom as a country under the timezone setting of an entry.  GMT-0 == UTC
[18:46:09] <jharting> bleathem: only in winter
[18:46:30] <bleathem> you sure?
[18:47:02] <jharting> bleathem: UTC does not have DST while GTM does
[18:47:13] <jharting> *GMT
[18:47:13] <bleathem> ugh.
[18:47:38] <bleathem> I went with Wikipedia:
[18:47:39] <bleathem> When times are listed as being "UTC" - this is de facto the equivalent of "GMT".
[18:48:53] <bleathem> oh well, I'll adjust it when DST kicks in
[18:53:31] <lightguard_jp> All caught up
[18:53:43] <lightguard_jp> I guess I'll wait until Dan gets back to talk about anything I have.
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[20:11:16] <jose_freitas> hello, someone?
[20:11:36] <jose_freitas> I guess there is some classes that are still trying to use weld-x
[20:11:47] <jose_freitas> my classloader is trying to load org.jboss.weld.extensions.reflection.AnnotationInstanceProvider
[20:12:02] <jose_freitas> and is failling
[20:12:06] <jose_freitas> java.lang.ClassNotFoundException
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[20:16:43] <jose_freitas> seam-faces-api 3.0.0.Beta1 and seam-xml-config 3.0.0.Beta1 are using it at compile
[20:17:14] <jose_freitas> and seam-international-api 3.0.0.Alpha2 is using at runtime
[20:18:24] <jose_freitas> those are using weld-extensions-1.0.0.Alpha2
[20:19:52] <jose_freitas> which has AnnotationInstanceProvider at org.jboss.weld.extensions.util not in org.jboss.weld.extensions.reflection
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[20:29:59] <mojavelinux> weld extensions is dead
[20:29:59] <kenfinnigan> jose, i18n alpha3 is the first release to use solder
[20:30:08] <mojavelinux> you should only have solder
[20:30:23] <mojavelinux> perhaps the wrong version of seam faces?
[20:30:31] <jose_freitas> yeah, I known that, but is not me using it
[20:30:33] <mojavelinux> checking your versions....
[20:30:39] <mojavelinux> oh
[20:30:44] <jose_freitas>  <seam-faces.version>3.0.0.Beta1</seam-faces.version>
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[20:31:43] <mojavelinux> needs to be Beta2
[20:31:54] <mojavelinux> same for config
[20:32:06] <mojavelinux> where are the versions coming from? is that in your apps pom?
[20:32:09] <mojavelinux> or a parent?
[20:32:39] <mojavelinux> yes, when select UTC for the meeting, you have to know your current offset
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[20:32:45] <mojavelinux> so the meeting time will change
[20:32:50] <mojavelinux> the key is that we fix it on something
[20:32:54] <mojavelinux> and UTC is the logical choice
[20:32:59] <mojavelinux> Brisbane has no DST
[20:33:04] <mojavelinux> so it always stays the same there
[20:33:45] <mojavelinux> google calendar has been horrible about time zones until recently
[20:34:06] <mojavelinux> but there could still be holes
[20:34:13] <mojavelinux> this is one of the areas I'd like i18n to kick ass at
[20:34:19] <mojavelinux> because everyone screws up time zones
[20:35:28] <kenfinnigan> yes they do, even me on occasion!
[20:35:59] <mojavelinux> believe me, took me 20 minutes just to figure out what meeting time would be Shane's 8AM :)
[20:36:08] <mojavelinux> so some utilities there would be so fantastic
[20:36:31] <lightguard_jp> mojavelinux: You wanted to talk about stuff?  Do you have time now, or should I wait?  It looked like you were going to talk to jharting at 2:00 your time.
[20:36:47] <kenfinnigan> could do a sample app that replicated timeanddate.com
[20:36:49] <lightguard_jp> Is international using joda-time?
[20:36:51] <mojavelinux> I'm currently having a meetup with ken
[20:36:56] <mojavelinux> exactly ken!
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[20:37:04] <mojavelinux> one without the ads ;)
[20:37:05] <lightguard_jp> Okay, I'll step into the queue
[20:37:09] <kenfinnigan> lol
[20:37:40] <kenfinnigan> yes international uses joda-time as optional dep
[20:37:49] <lightguard_jp> Very nice
[20:38:23] <kenfinnigan> mojavelinux: where is best place to start?
[20:39:09] <mojavelinux> give me two more minutes to orient
[20:39:26] <kenfinnigan> no prob
[20:39:47] <mojavelinux> just opening windows and ides
[20:40:21] <mojavelinux> i now have two monitors and both monitor has it's own processor :)
[20:40:38] <kenfinnigan> nice!
[20:42:12] 
[20:42:50] <jose_freitas> is everything modularized now? or with a version of seam, there are some modules bounded to it?
[20:42:50] <mojavelinux> I would use a snapshot of 6 atm
[20:43:02] <mojavelinux> sorry, you the bom
[20:43:15] <mojavelinux> again a snapshot...let me pull it up....
[20:43:52] <mojavelinux> ah, basically, I need to update this thing
[20:43:54] <mojavelinux> hehehe
[20:43:59] <mojavelinux> we need a new release of the bom
[20:44:09] <jose_freitas> =)
[20:44:10] <mojavelinux> let me just fix it and check it in so you can at least use the snapshot
[20:44:31] <mojavelinux> sorry ken, let me apply this real fast
[20:44:40] <kenfinnigan> that's fine
[20:47:35] <jose_freitas> sorry
[20:48:00] <mojavelinux> geez, looks like the download page had some out of date versions
[20:48:49] <mojavelinux> okay, that looks correct
[20:48:51] <mojavelinux> checking in....
[20:49:38] <mojavelinux> oh, and we have a final of the jboss-javaee-6 spec pom
[20:49:43] <mojavelinux> so I'll throw that in
[20:50:10] <jose_freitas> nice
[20:51:28] <mojavelinux> okay, committed
[20:51:33] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master 11e1a51.. Dan Allen update to Solder versions of modules and spec pom
[20:51:33] <jbossbot> git [dist] push master URL: http://github.com/seam/dist/compare/06e9f55...11e1a51
[20:51:34] <mojavelinux> that is the dist module
[20:52:03] <mojavelinux> import as so
[20:52:07] <mojavelinux>          <dependency>
[20:52:07] <mojavelinux>             <groupId>org.jboss.seam</groupId>
[20:52:07] <mojavelinux>             <artifactId>seam-bom</artifactId>
[20:52:07] <mojavelinux>             <version>${seam.version}</version>
[20:52:07] <mojavelinux>             <scope>import</scope>
[20:52:07] <mojavelinux>             <type>pom</type>
[20:52:08] <mojavelinux>          </dependency>
[20:52:10] <mojavelinux> we need docs for that
[20:52:24] <mojavelinux> in this case, 3.0.0-SNAPSHOT
[20:52:35] <lightguard_jp> mojavelinux: Are you watching http://java.net/jira/browse/GLASSFISH-14808 ?
[20:53:06] <jose_freitas> thanks mojavelinux
[20:53:30] <bleathem> mojavelinux: Is there anything I can do to facilitate the review of my Faces/Catch integration pull request?
[20:53:31] <mojavelinux> ken, I'm reading the jira
[20:53:43] <kenfinnigan> ok
[20:53:57] <lightguard_jp> bleathem: It hasn't been applied yet?  I thought it had
[20:53:59] <mojavelinux> I'll review that either tonight or tomorrow...I'll schedule it shortly
[20:54:29] <bleathem> sounds good.
[20:54:52] <bleathem> I started looking at the faces-redirect=true stuff we were talking about on twitter
[20:54:53] <mojavelinux> correct that level is not in @Message
[20:54:55] <mojavelinux> it's in @LogMessage
[20:55:03] <mojavelinux> @Message is the barebones usage
[20:55:07] <mojavelinux> so we are doing something like
[20:55:25] <bleathem> looks quite doable.
[20:55:26] <mojavelinux>           @Message
[20:55:26] <mojavelinux>        /                  \
[20:55:26] <mojavelinux> @LogMessage   @StatusMessage
[20:55:29] <mojavelinux> in terms of specialization
[20:55:33] <bleathem> I have a few ideas to try out.
[20:55:39] <mojavelinux> bleathem: excellent!
[20:55:46] <kenfinnigan> ok, makes sense
[20:55:51] <mojavelinux> here is the thing with jboss-logging
[20:56:05] <mojavelinux> we can't change it because dllyod doesn't want to
[20:56:20] <mojavelinux> which is why I say it's stupid to use the exact same annotations...I say we just do it "in the style of"
[20:56:25] <kenfinnigan> bummer
[20:56:39] <mojavelinux> I know, I agrued the point for like 2 hours and I got nowhere
[20:56:43] <kenfinnigan> agreed
[20:57:05] <mojavelinux> so, we are just going to do it, "in the style of" and reuse what we can, but not stress if we don't
[20:57:13] <mojavelinux> the important part is that the user can type fluently
[20:57:29] <mojavelinux> +1 to plural
[20:57:36] <mojavelinux> though I saw this somewhere recently....
[20:57:40] <kenfinnigan> ok, was beginning to freak about how to reuse logging!
[20:57:59] <kenfinnigan> gwt does it
[20:58:15] <jose_freitas> mojavelinux
[20:58:21] <mojavelinux> +1 to key too
[20:58:22] <mojavelinux> nice idea
[20:58:27] <jose_freitas> there is still someone using weld-x
[20:58:32] <mojavelinux> I think the plural is done in bean validation
[20:58:40] <mojavelinux> can you do dependency:tree
[20:58:46] <mojavelinux> use pastebin rather than this window
[20:58:50] <mojavelinux> or pastie
[20:59:07] <kenfinnigan> will check it out
[20:59:10] <jose_freitas> after updating my pom  is downloading weld-extensions-parent-1.0.0.Beta1.pom
[20:59:13] <mojavelinux> there is a new policy for seam which I think is going to easy your worries ken
[20:59:22] <mojavelinux> we are not putting out mandates, only two things
[20:59:25] <mojavelinux> 1. guidance
[20:59:27] <mojavelinux> 2. consistency
[20:59:39] <mojavelinux> these mandates are ridicioulous
[20:59:57] <kenfinnigan> so we're ok with" replicating" what logging does to specialize for messages
[21:00:07] <mojavelinux> so, we try to use jboss logging how we can, but we choose what is best for us
[21:00:10] <mojavelinux> yep
[21:00:18] <kenfinnigan> cool
[21:00:18] <mojavelinux> and, keep this in mind
[21:00:20] <mojavelinux> we own the tooling
[21:00:32] <mojavelinux> so we can have james extend the tooling to cover seam i18n
[21:00:51] <mojavelinux> and that's why I think I'm going to encourage him to get on board with this
[21:01:06] <mojavelinux> because he can help you do that part and then you can decide what will work and won't based on what he can make the tool do
[21:01:10] <mojavelinux> and that's a great validation point
[21:01:32] <kenfinnigan> one thing i would like some guidance on is how to localize the logging, as it does not support it at present
[21:01:49] <mojavelinux> that's the problem, a big empty promise
[21:01:54] <mojavelinux> but that is what James has been focused on
[21:02:02] <mojavelinux> once he got the basic classes generating
[21:02:36] <mojavelinux> here is how I think we should handle @Message
[21:02:37] <kenfinnigan> ok, will get in touch with him to discuss it
[21:02:45] <mojavelinux> I think we bring @Message into Solder
[21:02:54] <mojavelinux> and make it support interpolation w/ EL
[21:03:02] <mojavelinux> and MessageFormat (already has that)
[21:03:11] <kenfinnigan> as another format option?
[21:03:26] <kenfinnigan> ok
[21:03:29] <mojavelinux> yep, and I think the format option would be a param, w/ the default being like ALL or something
[21:03:55] <mojavelinux> or perhaps we do it another way such as a provider
[21:03:59] <kenfinnigan> same package for @Message?
[21:04:08] <mojavelinux> actually, you know what I like
[21:04:21] <mojavelinux> is if we can set the interpolator at the class level
[21:04:26] <mojavelinux> again, with a sensible default
[21:04:36] <mojavelinux> because likely all the messages in a single class will be done the same way
[21:04:47] <mojavelinux> it's when you mix different libraries that you might be doing things differently
[21:04:53] <mojavelinux> though that's sort of an advanced point
[21:04:58] <mojavelinux> but yes
[21:05:13] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.bundle.Message
[21:05:18] <kenfinnigan> makes sense. so something on @MessageBundle?
[21:05:20] <mojavelinux> I know, we stomp on i18n a bit there
[21:05:23] <mojavelinux> yep
[21:05:30] *** jose_freitas is now known as jose_freitas_afk
[21:05:33] <mojavelinux> but i18n is going to live across two modules
[21:05:38] <mojavelinux> it's split between Solder and i18n
[21:05:56] <mojavelinux> Solder has the stuff that's so core you just have to put it there...but just the API
[21:06:07] <kenfinnigan> makes sense
[21:06:40] <mojavelinux> I'm open to package name there
[21:06:43] <mojavelinux> I just choose bundle
[21:06:45] <mojavelinux> ah, maybe text
[21:06:49] <mojavelinux> like java
[21:07:09] <kenfinnigan> text works
[21:07:51] <mojavelinux> there is one other option...resourceLoader
[21:07:55] <mojavelinux> though that doesn't quite feel right
[21:08:03] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.resourceLoader.MessageBundle
[21:08:05] <mojavelinux> hmmm
[21:08:50] <kenfinnigan> doesn't feel quite right as it would not be loading resource
[21:09:54] <mojavelinux> yep
[21:10:01] <mojavelinux> I like text or bundle
[21:10:21] <mojavelinux> ah, wiat
[21:10:22] <mojavelinux> message
[21:10:28] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.seam.solder.message.MessageBundle
[21:10:50] <kenfinnigan> good idea
[21:11:20] <kenfinnigan> will create @Message there too
[21:12:49] <mojavelinux> I like messages, bundle, i18n, in that order
[21:12:56] <mojavelinux> how about let's go with "messages"
[21:13:14] <mojavelinux> hahaha, that package is already there ;)
[21:13:20] <kenfinnigan> so the extension to create classes will be in seam i18n?
[21:13:39] <mojavelinux> correct, well, to create the loggers
[21:13:41] <mojavelinux> that's in solder
[21:13:41] <kenfinnigan> using the api from solder
[21:13:56] <mojavelinux> to create the status messengers, that's in i18n
[21:14:07] <mojavelinux> so MessageBundle and Message are in solder
[21:14:23] <mojavelinux> MessageLogger and LogMessage are in solder
[21:14:31] <mojavelinux> StatusMessage is in i18n
[21:14:54] <kenfinnigan> so we're bringing in the jboss logging code
[21:15:00] <kenfinnigan> into solder
[21:15:10] <mojavelinux> oh, right, not sure about that...that's what I'm still working out
[21:15:20] <mojavelinux> but yes, the MessageBundle and Message are in solder
[21:15:21] <mojavelinux> yes
[21:15:23] <mojavelinux> so yes
[21:15:56] <mojavelinux> basically, I want to merge jboss logging into solder
[21:16:04] <mojavelinux> how we package it is tbd
[21:16:10] <kenfinnigan> if we're revising Message the the logging ones probably need to be there too
[21:16:12] <mojavelinux> but for sure
[21:16:17] <mojavelinux> MessageBundle and Message are in solder
[21:16:39] <kenfinnigan> option 3 from the team meeting?
[21:17:12] <kenfinnigan> would that cause deployment clashes with logging in jboss as?
[21:17:15] <lightguard_jp> seems to be the way we're going
[21:17:24] <mojavelinux> should not
[21:17:35] <mojavelinux> these are pojo classes
[21:17:41] <mojavelinux> so there is no reason we should get problems
[21:17:48] <kenfinnigan> ok
[21:17:56] <mojavelinux> so we have a major issue with naming in solder w/ regard to MessageBundle
[21:18:06] <mojavelinux> I hit this when I was trying to get solder to create the classes
[21:18:07] <mojavelinux> there is
[21:18:14] <mojavelinux> org.jboss.logging.MessageBundle
[21:18:20] <mojavelinux> and org.jboss.seam.solder.log.MessageBundle
[21:18:30] <mojavelinux> bad bad bad
[21:18:35] <kenfinnigan> yep
[21:19:13] <mojavelinux> it's so unbelievable wrong to put Message and MessageBundle in org.jboss.logging
[21:19:19] <kenfinnigan> does solder need it's own MessageBundle?
[21:19:23] <mojavelinux> I want it
[21:19:38] <mojavelinux> we can hack this up at load time to move annotations around
[21:19:43] <kenfinnigan> i mean the one that's already there
[21:19:44] <mojavelinux> if we need to, but I want an api
[21:20:01] <mojavelinux> the one that is there shouldn't be
[21:20:34] <kenfinnigan> that's what i meant, sorry. not providing use over the logging version
[21:20:51] <mojavelinux> so here is the issue
[21:20:58] <mojavelinux> the MessageBundle from solder currently, is for this
[21:21:01] <mojavelinux> @Inject @MessageBundle
[21:21:02] <mojavelinux>    BirdMessages messages;
[21:21:24] <kenfinnigan> how about i port current logging from dmlloyd in git into solder api/impl,
[21:21:40] <kenfinnigan> remove current log.MessageBundle,
[21:21:54] <mojavelinux> let me explain what this annotation does real quick
[21:22:00] <mojavelinux> to help you out
[21:22:05] <mojavelinux> because I hit my teeth on this one
[21:22:10] <kenfinnigan> add revised logging versions and go from there?
[21:22:14] <kenfinnigan> ok
[21:22:37] <mojavelinux> MessageBundle from solder is added to the generated proxy class of the interface with the MessageBundle from logging
[21:22:45] <mojavelinux> that allows you to inject the proxy instead of the interface
[21:22:47] <mojavelinux> but two things
[21:22:55] <mojavelinux> first, that's not really necessary
[21:23:00] <mojavelinux> and second, this should be transparent
[21:23:03] <mojavelinux> you should be able to do
[21:23:13] <mojavelinux> @Inject BirdMessages messages;
[21:23:18] <mojavelinux> why the extra annotation?
[21:23:20] <kenfinnigan> agree
[21:23:21] <mojavelinux> just doesn't make sense to me
[21:23:35] <mojavelinux> and it's massively confusing to have two annotations w/ the same name, people will reverse them all the time
[21:23:51] <kenfinnigan> and just have MessageBundle on type defining messages
[21:23:57] <mojavelinux> exactly
[21:24:08] <mojavelinux> okay, so how about do a branch
[21:24:10] <mojavelinux> bring in jboss-logging
[21:24:17] <mojavelinux> because we need to support these proxies properly anyway
[21:24:24] <mojavelinux> and lloyd refuses to support it
[21:25:05] <mojavelinux> should we use org.jboss.seam.solder.logging or org.jboss.logging
[21:25:08] <kenfinnigan> is branch distinct from fork? still getting hang of git
[21:25:20] <mojavelinux> I like putting it under solder because no matter how many times we say it
[21:25:27] <mojavelinux> people will think jboss-logging is part of jboss as
[21:25:34] <mojavelinux> you can't change that perception
[21:25:40] <kenfinnigan> solder makes more sense to me
[21:25:50] <mojavelinux> a fork creates your own repository
[21:25:58] <mojavelinux> a branch defines a sandbox, just like svn branch
[21:26:12] <kenfinnigan> ah ok
[21:26:22] <mojavelinux> you really stop using master unless you are the module lead working on the official upstream
[21:26:28] <mojavelinux> basically, master is the merge area
[21:26:33] <mojavelinux> grand central station
[21:26:38] <mojavelinux> you don't work in grand central station
[21:26:43] <mojavelinux> you work on the train
[21:26:46] <mojavelinux> :)
[21:26:52] <kenfinnigan> makes sense
[21:26:57] <mojavelinux> you meet at the station
[21:27:14] <kenfinnigan> good analogy
[21:27:18] <mojavelinux> :)
[21:27:26] <mojavelinux> as for you, being the module lead...you don't technically have to fork
[21:27:31] <mojavelinux> since the main repository is your fork
[21:27:35] <mojavelinux> though I still fork anyway
[21:27:39] <mojavelinux> so that people don't see my messes
[21:28:04] <mojavelinux> kind of keeps the upsteam organized
[21:28:05] <kenfinnigan> I've used main a lot for i18n changes
[21:28:22] <mojavelinux> it's so easy to merge, that it's actually no extra work to do the branches
[21:28:34] <mojavelinux> and what's interesting is that the branches on forks and upstream are all flat
[21:28:39] <kenfinnigan> good to know
[21:28:42] <mojavelinux> meaning, you checkout out a single place
[21:28:56] <mojavelinux> and you can have branches from any fork sitting adjacent
[21:29:03] <mojavelinux> so I can create a branch
[21:29:05] <mojavelinux> push it to mojavelinux
[21:29:17] <mojavelinux> then switch to upstream master
[21:29:19] <mojavelinux> merge it in
[21:29:24] <mojavelinux> and push it to upstream master
[21:29:27] <mojavelinux> all without moving
[21:29:34] <mojavelinux> you push to share
[21:29:40] <kenfinnigan> will there be another solder release before seam goes beta?
[21:29:49] <mojavelinux> absolutely...I"m sitting on it right now
[21:29:55] <mojavelinux> until we can verify glassfish support
[21:30:40] <kenfinnigan> ok, will get the branch stuff done asap so you can potentially include it
[21:31:26] <mojavelinux> awesome!
[21:31:32] <mojavelinux> yes, @Message has format attribute
[21:31:36] <mojavelinux> currently printf or message format
[21:31:39] <mojavelinux> we need EL
[21:31:48] <mojavelinux> though you can see that having something extensible would be much better
[21:31:51] <mojavelinux> enum == no flexibility
[21:32:01] <kenfinnigan> is it only api extensions to logging that belong in solder, rest in i18n?
[21:32:48] <kenfinnigan> agreed, is there an example of provider usage i can copy to do similar?
[21:33:21] <mojavelinux> hey, a pluralizer would be pretty cool for i18n
[21:33:43] <kenfinnigan> a tool?
[21:33:43] <mojavelinux> something that would look for a provider based on qualifiers or something
[21:33:47] <mojavelinux> and fall back to brute force
[21:34:31] <mojavelinux> meaning, you might do something like have a special logic for a specific language and select words
[21:34:37] <mojavelinux> and then have a basic language pluralizer
[21:34:45] <mojavelinux> and fallthrough is add "s"
[21:34:47] <kenfinnigan> pluralizer as in @PluralText but automagic?
[21:34:52] <mojavelinux> yeah
[21:35:26] <mojavelinux> you see how it's an equation with a default solution?
[21:35:39] <mojavelinux> so you say, I need to pluralize a word (or type of word) in a specific language
[21:35:43] <mojavelinux> do you have something to do that?
[21:35:51] <mojavelinux> even a dictionary could be a provider
[21:35:56] <mojavelinux> or another algorithm
[21:36:03] <mojavelinux> and then, if there are no volunteers, you just say
[21:36:11] <mojavelinux> okay, I'll just do what is normal for that language
[21:36:13] <mojavelinux> and guess
[21:36:49] <sbryzak> good morning all
[21:37:50] <mojavelinux> cody dig this http://blog.dblevins.com/2010/10/ejbnext-connectorbean-api-jax-rs-and.html
[21:37:59] <mojavelinux> receieve e-mail as we were discussing
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[21:46:23] <lightguard_jp> jharting: ping
[21:57:27] <lightguard_jp> mojavelinux: Who's next in your queue?
[21:58:13] <mojavelinux> you are up...bio break though
[22:26:01] <mojavelinux> I have an idea to throw out there...should we package a solder jar that has no extensions defined in META-INF?
[22:26:17] <mojavelinux> for people that need solder for shared resources, but perhaps defining their own extension points?
[22:26:20] <mojavelinux> I think we should do it
[22:26:22] <mojavelinux> call it
[22:26:49] <mojavelinux> seam-solder-serviceless
[22:26:52] <mojavelinux> or -inert
[22:26:55] <mojavelinux> or something like that
[22:42:28] <clerum> wow active channel today
[22:47:21] <mojavelinux> indeed :)
[23:13:52] <mojavelinux> the patch to glassfish 3.1 looks right
[23:14:01] <mojavelinux> thanks Jozef, pete and jason
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[23:47:07] <jharting> lightguard_jp: pong
[23:47:38] <lightguard_jp> If I create a REST service that has the annotations on an interface, do I need to redefine them on the impl class?
[23:48:13] <jharting> lightguard_jp: no
[23:48:21] <lightguard_jp> It'll pick them up?
[23:48:29] <lightguard_jp> Is that according to the spec or just in RESTeasy?
[23:49:00] <jharting> lightguard_jp: it's in resteasy for sure, I'll check the spec for exact language
[23:50:13] <jharting> JAX-RS annotations MAY be used on the methods and method parameters of a super-class or an implemented
[23:50:13] <jharting> interface. Such annotations are inherited by a corresponding sub-class or implementation class
[23:50:13] <jharting> method provided that method and its parameters do not have any JAX-RS annotations of its own. Annotations
[23:50:13] <jharting> on a super-class take precedence over those on an implemented interface. If a subclass or implementation
[23:50:13] <jharting> method has any JAX-RS annotations then all of the annotations on the super class or interface method
[23:50:13] <jharting> are ignored.
[23:55:30] <lightguard_jp> Cool
[23:55:37] <lightguard_jp> It's different than JAX-WS then.
[23:55:39] <lightguard_jp> Good to know





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