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   October 16, 2013  
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[01:37:05] <trentster> Howdy Harvey
[01:41:53] <Harvey> have you guys compared fifo to joyents SDC product?
[01:42:07] <Harvey> Hey Trentster
[01:42:16] <trentster> In what way
[01:42:55] <Harvey> Features and UI comparison i was playing around with it today and FiFo stacks up very well against it
[01:43:40] <trentster> yeah, a lot of folks have decided to use fifo and have been exposed to both fifo and sdc.
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[01:44:35] <trentster> There is still a bit of polish lacking FiFo wise, but we are getting there. imho the backend of FiFO architecture is definitely superior ;-)
[01:45:21] <Harvey> Erlang + Riak seems to be a really good fit
[01:45:57] <trentster> Yeah, the best and worst attribute of fifo is its Erlang base.
[01:47:11] <trentster> best as in erlang is amazing for cloud orchestration system, and not so great since most people dont have erlang exposure and therefore potential contributors are less than if it had been based on latest wizz bang coding flavour, like node.js
[01:53:10] <Harvey> I have not done any coding in erlang in fact it was only FiFo that got me looking at the docs today
[02:18:54] <arekinath> how can people not love the 80s
[02:19:04] <arekinath> I have trouble understanding it
[02:23:11] <trentster> Harvey: http://learnyousomeerlang.com/content
[02:38:34] <konobi> trentster: =0P
[02:41:49] <Harvey> Thanks Trentster will have a play
[02:45:31] <konobi> Harvey: really it depends how large an infrastructure you want to support
[02:52:57] <Harvey> starting with 11 datacenters with 572 compute nodes
[02:54:43] <trentster> Harvey: Well if its a small setup like that, probably better to go with vmware esx :-P
[02:54:52] <Harvey> hehe
[02:55:01] <konobi> Harvey: i'd go SDC =0)
[02:56:55] <Harvey> These guys came outta stealth mode yesterday with a very intresting perspective on Software Defined Networking http://convergent.io/ the boxes im deploying are similar but with more storage and iops but no SDN layer
[02:58:10] <konobi> i was reading an article the other day about how messed up SDN is at the moment
[02:59:50] <konobi> there was one company that was mentioned as pretty decent, but the name escapes me off hand
[03:00:01] <konobi> but openflow and the like were really ragged on
[03:01:25] <trentster> not sure about the product at http://convergent.io/ but I can say without doubt they have a crisp, clean well designed website ;-)
[03:02:16] <konobi> heh
[03:03:57] <Harvey> Yes that much is true
[03:06:43] <konobi> trentster: fifo doesn't really aim to work over WAN, right?
[03:13:31] <trentster> konobi: not at the moment, no
[03:13:47] <trentster> all depends on what you mean by "work" tho
[03:15:32] <konobi> yeah
[03:16:06] <konobi> distributed DCs was definitely a core goal for SDC
[03:18:23] <trentster> imho, its fairly easy to have multiple fifo core installs at each location and have a central UI that allows you to deploy in selected locations etc. What is not easy is to have realtime data streaming in over wan links to a central single pane of glass overview. Also migrating machines from location to location is difficult.
[03:19:36] <trentster> If I recall correctly Licenser mentioned trying to incorporate multiple locations across wan links is not something he thinks is a good idea, as the quality of wan links can effect the overall application. I think I kinda agree with this.
[03:19:37] <konobi> yeah, centralized vs distributed, etc.
[03:19:46] <trentster> konobi: whats your opinion on this?
[03:20:04] <konobi> well, it depends
[03:20:15] <konobi> certain things need to be centralized
[03:20:22] <trentster> you think its a pre-requisite of a orchestrated cloud?
[03:20:52] <konobi> but yeah, there's latency to think of, but what you really need is well known behaviour and continuity when links go down
[03:21:07] <konobi> trentster: it's the nature of the beast
[03:21:09] <konobi> =0)
[03:22:22] <konobi> trentster: things like authentication and authorization for exmaple
[03:22:33] <trentster> yeah, its also important to distinguish between an SDC which is a consumer facing cloud, vs "my perceived" common userbase of fifo, which is more along the lines of people building their cloud or own offering ontop of it as a base.
[03:23:11] <konobi> well, SDC is used for both public and private stuff
[03:23:58] <trentster> In theory right now, if you trust your wan links you could in essence establish vpn tunnels between all DC locations and plop all nodes onto the same management network.
[03:24:00] <Harvey> aye SDC and Joyent Public Cloud are two different things, SDC is an Orchestration for private clouds
[03:24:09] <Harvey> indeed
[03:24:10] <konobi> Harvey: not quite
[03:24:44] <konobi> Harvey: the public cloud is built atop SDC... the only real difference is a customized portal, etc.
[03:24:51] <trentster> Yeah, I know SDC is for private clouds but I mean, its packaged already as a deploy and run solution.
[03:25:22] <konobi> and there's several other public clouds built atop SDC... also with their own portals =0)
[03:26:16] <trentster> konobi: yeah, you are right, I stand corrected on that one.
[03:26:32] <konobi> Harvey: i should probably point out I worked on SDC/JPC and did some customer support stuff... so have some overview on it
[03:26:51] <konobi> not that I'm at joyent any more though ^_^
[03:27:29] <trentster> but very good news, for SDC fans like konobi is that I hear rumblings in the grapevine that SDC will possibly be open sourced soonish ;-)
[03:28:49] <trentster> That being said, I also know of quite a few companies who having previously deployed SDC, have migrated to FiFO
[03:29:36] <trentster> I guess it comes down to what works for you, and the best tool for the job, I think both SDC & FiFO are awesome.
[03:30:31] <konobi> trentster: heh, i suppose i'm a fan... but that's generally the case when you've put lots of effort into something ^_^
[03:30:38] <trentster> Plus the support and access to world class engineers you get via Joyent is priceless imho, and also a huge decisive factor in going the SDC route, especially when there are no budget concerns.
[03:30:45] <konobi> trentster: which grapevine?
[03:30:56] <konobi> yeah
[03:32:10] <trentster> konobi: not sure I am allowed to talk about it before its officialish ;-)
[03:32:22] <konobi> trentster: PM me
[03:32:24] <konobi> =0)
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[16:18:31] <nahamu> is this page up to date? http://project-fifo.net/display/PF/Requirements
[16:18:59] <nahamu> (info for FiFo 0.4.1 seems to be missing...)
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[23:13:03] <pringlescan> Anyone get "Server disconnected (code: 1006)" when trying to use Console to VNC into Windows… release version of FIFO
[23:38:32] <pringlescan> (that's on one server, clean install) on a server I'm upgrading chunter won't start and it says pings failed
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   October 16, 2013  
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