December 30, 2018 
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<beatzz!~beatzz@240f:83:d77a:1:d08f:1a36:a462:78d7> has joined #postfix[08:41:23] *** Poster|z <Poster|z!~poster@cpe-174-96-188-72.columbus.res.rr.com> has joined #postfix[08:49:43] *** rob_ <rob_!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has joined #postfix[08:54:55] *** rob_ <rob_!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[09:05:45] *** beatzz <beatzz!~beatzz@240f:83:d77a:1:d08f:1a36:a462:78d7> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[09:52:31] *** rob_ <rob_!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has joined #postfix[10:03:19] *** olegfusion <olegfusion!~olegfusio@mail.mobileforsale.ru> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[10:06:05] *** imm__ <imm__!~imm_@cpe-94-253-243-120.st.cable.xnet.hr> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)[10:06:27] *** imm_ <imm_!~imm_@unaffiliated/imm/x-7821412> has joined #postfix[10:07:18] *** imm_ <imm_!~imm_@unaffiliated/imm/x-7821412> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[10:08:07] *** imm_ <imm_!~imm_@unaffiliated/imm/x-7821412> has joined #postfix[10:13:18] *** rob_ <rob_!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[10:38:37] *** match_it <match_it!~giovanni@dynamic-adsl-78-14-154-185.clienti.tiscali.it> has joined #postfix[10:42:21] <match_it> hi all, I have a working server with postfix that receives mails properly from external mail services. The system is configured with "virtual" users to redirect mail input to system users. And so what's the problem? The problem is that I've added two new users to system but their relevant mailbox files (/var/spool/mail/newusername) are not filled with incoming messages. How to force to recreate mail toolchain ?[10:42:26] <match_it> thanks in advance[10:44:00] <match_it> obviuosly I have the new users added to virtual.db with postmap /etc/postfix/virtual and also postfix reload[10:59:15] <blackflow> !getting_help[10:59:15] <knoba> blackflow: "getting_help" : before asking your question, read the !relevant_logs and !showconfig factoids, and prepare a single pastebin containing all of that data. if you don't understand what this means, or if you need help doing this, please let us know. also see !pastebin[11:21:44] *** match_it <match_it!~giovanni@dynamic-adsl-78-14-154-185.clienti.tiscali.it> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[11:45:19] *** rob_ <rob_!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has joined #postfix[11:55:50] *** jalalsfs_ <jalalsfs_!~jalalsfs@unaffiliated/jalalsfs> has joined #postfix[11:55:53] *** jalalsfs <jalalsfs!~jalalsfs@unaffiliated/jalalsfs> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[12:01:12] *** [NoClan]GoAway <[NoClan]GoAway!~NoClan@185.57.82.26> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[12:08:24] *** [NoClan]GoAway <[NoClan]GoAway!~NoClan@185.57.82.26> has joined #postfix[12:32:24] *** Penguin_ <Penguin_!~xwQ5kwYl6@our.systems.are.full.of.penguins.at.penguinsystems.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[12:43:20] *** Penguin_ <Penguin_!~xwQ5kwYl6@our.systems.are.full.of.penguins.at.penguinsystems.net> has joined #postfix[12:54:30] *** DTZUZO <DTZUZO!~DTZUZO@S0106bcd16584b0aa.vs.shawcable.net> has joined #postfix[12:57:44] *** Dat <Dat!dat@unaffiliated/dat> has left #postfix[13:08:47] *** rob_ <rob_!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[13:17:48] *** bolt <bolt!~r00t@unaffiliated/bolt> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[13:18:17] *** bolt_ <bolt_!~r00t@unaffiliated/bolt> has joined #postfix[13:36:59] *** rob_ <rob_!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has joined #postfix[13:47:42] *** andylavarre <andylavarre!~andy@mobile-107-107-60-145.mycingular.net> has joined #postfix[14:08:22] *** Noti <Noti!~steffan@ip4da40774.direct-adsl.nl> has joined #postfix[14:32:44] *** Intelo <Intelo!~Intelo@gateway/tor-sasl/intelo> has joined #postfix[14:34:29] *** led_dark_1 <led_dark_1!~Thunderbi@46.173.197.56> has joined #postfix[14:35:55] *** led_dark_1 <led_dark_1!~Thunderbi@46.173.197.56> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[14:38:39] *** Noti <Noti!~steffan@ip4da40774.direct-adsl.nl> has quit IRC (Quit: Konversation terminated!)[14:41:48] <Intelo> I setup MTA, I don't send spam but still it gets black listed in few listings. What can I do to fix this?[14:47:11] *** rob_ <rob_!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[14:55:13] <blackflow> don't send out mail that users will flag as spam, don't send out in volume that machines will flag as spam, don't sent to spamtrap addresses. simple.[14:55:26] <blackflow> *send[14:57:06] <blackflow> (also don't use a shady provider or a provider who doesn't care so you're blacklisted by subnet, even if you yourself don't spam)[15:00:57] <rob0> Probably still using a purchased mail list, somehow imagining that UBE != spam.[15:05:57] <blackflow> I'd wager a $5 toward that.[15:06:51] *** treefrob <treefrob!~treefrob@p2E542701.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[15:07:20] *** n_1-c_k <n_1-c_k!~nick@2a02:8010:63a6::70> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[15:08:13] *** n_1-c_k <n_1-c_k!~nick@2a02:8010:63a6::70> has joined #postfix[15:12:40] *** treefrob <treefrob!~treefrob@p2E542701.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #postfix[15:21:56] *** Wioxjk <Wioxjk!~poppels@81-235-33-215-no286.tbcn.telia.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[15:36:04] *** Wioxjk <Wioxjk!~poppels@81-235-33-215-no286.tbcn.telia.com> has joined #postfix[15:53:44] *** Diemuzi <Diemuzi!~IceChat9@unaffiliated/diemuzi> has joined #postfix[15:57:18] <Intelo> blackflow, whats that 'volume'?[15:57:37] <Intelo> rob0, UBE?[16:00:24] *** Intelo <Intelo!~Intelo@gateway/tor-sasl/intelo> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[16:06:03] <tuxick> spam :)[16:06:40] *** Intelo <Intelo!~Intelo@gateway/tor-sasl/intelo> has joined #postfix[16:07:27] *** Kelsar <Kelsar!~quassel@unaffiliated/kelsar> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[16:08:06] <Intelo> blackflow, i got disconnectd. DId I missed anything?[16:08:15] <Intelo> rob0, UBE?[16:08:22] <thumbs> Intelo: you keep getting disconnected, yes.[16:09:19] <thumbs> Intelo: you should look into why you're getting disconnected so frequently, first.[16:10:19] <Intelo> thumbs, Tor client resets[16:10:31] <thumbs> why does it "reset"?[16:10:58] <Intelo> the end node/peer resets in tor network. Some dude I am not in control of[16:11:46] <thumbs> a connection reset by peer is likely on your end, or caused by your ISP.[16:12:36] <thumbs> Intelo: anyway, fix that first, as no one will answer you if you keep timing out.[16:13:05] <Intelo> Iam here for 30 mins. no disconnections[16:16:26] *** Kelsar <Kelsar!~quassel@unaffiliated/kelsar> has joined #postfix[16:23:33] <blackflow> Intelo: volume = mails per second[16:24:55] <Intelo> blackflow, whats the best volumn limit to consider?[16:25:48] <Intelo> blackflow, also, volume might be considered relevant per email host like google/hotmail. If I have 1000 emails being sent to 1000 email providers. Volume per host is 1. And not a big deal?[16:26:10] <Intelo> blackflow, if so, I can use a queing system to not send emails to same host in a limited time?[16:28:05] *** Intelo <Intelo!~Intelo@gateway/tor-sasl/intelo> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[16:28:31] *** Intelo <Intelo!~Intelo@gateway/tor-sasl/intelo> has joined #postfix[16:29:59] *** ]SiB[ <]SiB[!~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/sib/x-9459575> has joined #postfix[16:44:36] *** [sr] <[sr]!~kvirc@pal-213-228-163-73.netvisao.pt> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[16:44:54] *** i1nfusion <i1nfusion!~i1nfusion@46.101.134.251> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[16:46:06] *** i1nfusion <i1nfusion!~i1nfusion@46.101.134.251> has joined #postfix[16:48:05] <thumbs> Intelo: read about rate limiting.[16:55:23] <blackflow> thumbs: is there such a setting though? limit per host? default_destination_rate_delay works per domain or per recipient depending on per-destination recipient limit, and there's similar setting for transport. I suppose that works for things like @gmail.com, but what about servers that host many domains?[16:55:54] <thumbs> blackflow: that's more tricky, I admit.[16:56:28] <thumbs> blackflow: I've seen folks that built SQL maps for this.[16:56:59] <blackflow> for transport?[16:57:20] <thumbs> yes with a transport.[16:57:45] <blackflow> makes sense. If I were to do it, that's how I'd go probably.[17:03:43] *** rob <rob!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has joined #postfix[17:04:07] *** rob is now known as Guest87435[17:04:31] <tuxick> Intelo: there is not 1000 providers[17:04:56] <tuxick> i wouldn't be surprised if gmail+hotmail cover more than 50%[17:05:07] <tuxick> or 70[17:06:43] <blackflow> aww poor yahoo shoved to the margins of mailing history again :)[17:08:19] <thumbs> I don't know what market share Yahoo currently holds, but it can't be significant at this point.[17:09:06] *** Guest87435 <Guest87435!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[17:09:28] <Intelo> tuxick, there are more than 1000s in al over the world.[17:10:23] <Intelo> thumbs, tuxick blackflow looks like postal mail is a bit costly but no one can stop it....[17:10:34] * thumbs blinks[17:10:39] <blackflow> well we know yahoo hosted at least 1.9 billion accounts, judging from that breach exposed last year[17:10:47] <Intelo> thumbs, o.O[17:11:15] <thumbs> blackflow: how many active, however?[17:11:33] <Intelo> so whynot postal mail?[17:11:57] <blackflow> thumbs: that part I don't know yeah. :)[17:12:08] <blackflow> Intelo: what about snailmail?[17:12:18] <Intelo> whats that?[17:12:36] <thumbs> Intelo: you're just blattering odd things at this point.[17:12:49] <Intelo> the biggest advantage with postal mail is, the recipient will get it and read it.[17:13:00] <Intelo> isnt it?[17:13:18] <Intelo> the only disadvantage is the cost[17:13:20] <blackflow> no. I toss snailmail spam to garbage on sight.[17:13:37] <thumbs> Intelo: forget everything you think you know, at this point.[17:14:27] <Intelo> thumbs, why would you say that?[17:14:39] *** rob_ <rob_!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has joined #postfix[17:14:41] <thumbs> Intelo: because your assumptions are ridiculous.[17:14:45] <Intelo> blackflow, whats the cost of sending a snailmail inside a state in U.S?[17:15:08] <Intelo> thumbs, so you think postal mails do not reach? b)not read?[17:15:37] <blackflow> no idea, but if Trump is to be believed, USPS is ripping the taxpayers off.[17:18:24] <thumbs> Intelo: your estimate on the percentage of read snail mail is way off.[17:19:32] *** rob_ <rob_!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[17:19:56] <Intelo> thumbs, unless a very rich guy who have employees to read emails. its a 100% read and delivery. No?[17:20:07] <thumbs> Intelo: as is the number of significant providers.[17:20:18] <Intelo> thumbs, are you an employee or business guy?[17:20:23] <thumbs> Intelo: sigh.[17:20:33] <Intelo> thumbs, 'as is a number of significant providers'? mean[17:21:21] <thumbs> Intelo: what is your native language?[17:21:36] <Intelo> Arabic[17:21:55] <thumbs> I suspected a language barrier, indeed.[17:21:58] <Intelo> habibi haya hayya[17:22:19] <Intelo> thumbs, rephrase: Do you do a job or business[17:22:24] <blackflow> Intelo: slightly getting offtopic, but cutting to the chase: at least here in EU, snail mail (aka "postal" mail) advertisement is never addressed. They have contracts with post offices and various private couriers, to drop into your mailbox various advertisements, along with regular deliveries.[17:22:48] <blackflow> which means you can spot spam stickign out of your inbox right away, and toss it into the "paper only" trashcan without reading it at all.[17:23:05] <thumbs> well, the recycling bin for paper, to be precise.[17:23:17] <Intelo> blackflow, whats the cost of sending one snailmail?[17:23:40] <blackflow> no idea and I'm sure there's volume discount with private carriers at least.[17:23:43] *** rob_ <rob_!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has joined #postfix[17:23:50] <Intelo> blackflow, on that thought. You can just post a real mail letter. Unless someone reads it (which is the purpose of the mail), he would not know if its an ad or a letter[17:24:03] <blackflow> *couriers[17:24:27] <thumbs> Intelo: you're a bit disconnected with how the western world operates.[17:24:28] <blackflow> Intelo: yes but ads rarely, if ever, come in envelopes, addressed to you, and disguised as normal mail[17:24:47] <Intelo> thumbs, elaborate?[17:25:03] <thumbs> Intelo: it means that you have no idea how things work in the western world.[17:25:13] <Intelo> blackflow, ya; my point: come in envelopes, addressed to you, and disguised as normal mail[17:25:17] <blackflow> I mean... sometimes they do come in, along with the utility bill for example. My telecom, for example, puts in various leaflets for their various products, along with the regular bill.[17:25:20] <thumbs> Intelo: email or snail mail, being two things.[17:25:40] <Intelo> thumbs, whats different that you think from what I and blackflow think?[17:25:57] <blackflow> Intelo: I have never seen ads alone come in envelopes, addressed to me. I've been 39 years on this planet. maybe too short to see one :)[17:26:01] <thumbs> Intelo: blackflow knows what he's talking about.[17:26:33] <thumbs> Intelo: I have not disagreed with him yet, I am only saying that most of what you say is out of touch with the reality.[17:26:47] <Intelo> blackflow, 'address to me' can be 'to CEO' witih address of an office.[17:26:58] <thumbs> Intelo: you simply lack enough exposure to make sure claims.[17:27:02] <Intelo> thumbs, like?[17:27:19] <Intelo> thumbs, just tell me 2 things that I said which differ from reality?[17:27:39] <thumbs> Intelo: everything you said here is different than what happens in reality.[17:27:57] <Intelo> thumbs, super[17:28:02] <thumbs> Intelo: I'm sure you can recall what you said.[17:28:11] <Intelo> ya.[17:28:20] <Intelo> wonderful.Thanks![17:28:21] <blackflow> Intelo: in general they don't do that because the logistics of that is very complicated. So either a company spams their own clients by inserting ads into regular bills, or they have contracts with couriers to put into your mailbox, without direct addressing, various ads. at least here in EU.[17:28:27] *** rob_ <rob_!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[17:28:48] <blackflow> plus, now with GDPR laws in EU, if they DID address me personally, I'd have grounds for a hefty lawsuit due to them breaching GDRP by using my personal info without my consent.[17:29:00] <blackflow> *GDPR[17:29:11] <thumbs> for instance, your gaz company inserts pamphlets for maintenance providers.[17:29:22] <Intelo> blackflow, hm[17:29:44] <thumbs> it's worth noting that the EU and NA operate differently in that respect.[17:29:54] <Intelo> blackflow, the moment you insert a pamphlet, I see my self out. Theres a natural resistance in humans in 2019 for such ads[17:30:08] <blackflow> I assume so, that's why I'm mentioning this to be the case here in EU at least.[17:30:23] *** jalalsfs_ <jalalsfs_!~jalalsfs@unaffiliated/jalalsfs> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[17:30:48] *** TyrfingMjolnir <TyrfingMjolnir!~Tyrfing@62.92.82.250> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)[17:31:04] <blackflow> but, lack of GDPR aside in USA, collecting addresses and printing them out individually would be unnecessary work, if a company can pay the courier to (legally) put stuff into your mailbox.[17:31:34] <blackflow> it'd be HUGE work, with HUGE costs, at scale.[17:31:39] <Intelo> blackflow, oh[17:32:36] <Intelo> blackflow, so one cannot just hire an employee on a bicycle and ask him to throw/put mails in mailboxes/house gates in a colony?[17:32:50] <blackflow> that'd be the courier I'm talking about.[17:32:58] <Intelo> private. Not a courier[17:33:05] <Intelo> private guy[17:33:09] <Intelo> will be cheaper[17:33:24] <Intelo> blackflow, is it like. allowed in eu?[17:33:46] <Intelo> blackflow, y ou can just throw/mail/drop in mailbox house/office?[17:33:49] <Intelo> a letter[17:34:01] <blackflow> it wouldn't actually. becuse you're paying that one guy to do only that. you can pay a courier, who alerady has the infrastructure and human resources already going around delivering mail, to do that at fraction of a cost.[17:34:15] <blackflow> I don't think it's illegal, no.[17:34:28] <Intelo> so its legal?[17:34:49] <Intelo> blackflow, you have no idea of the costs per courier post?[17:35:11] <Intelo> blackflow, what might be the salary of such a guy if hired for 8 hours a day?[17:35:18] <Intelo> it can be a teenager/kind even[17:35:57] <tuxick> so many problems would go away if all spammers just die[17:36:05] *** jalalsfs <jalalsfs!~jalalsfs@unaffiliated/jalalsfs> has joined #postfix[17:36:49] <Intelo> tuxick, so will be the fun gone[17:37:16] <Intelo> tuxick, don't you think ads on youtube, tv, radio are also spam?[17:37:20] <thumbs> Intelo: you have the weirdest view on things.[17:37:27] <blackflow> few years ago my company was looking into that -- sending out ads for our services to businesses. we collected the addresses, envelopes, were ready to send it out and looked into sending regular mail vs. contracting a courier to do so. the courier would've cost us some 20% of the "regular mail" price, but for that we neeed to have a long term contract with them, they wouldn't do a one time delivery for[17:37:29] <Intelo> spam = something you never opted to receive[17:37:32] <jaybe> note that asking something such as, "3428] <Intelo> so its legal?", on irc- i asking for pain. :)[17:37:33] <blackflow> that price.[17:38:04] <thumbs> jaybe: he's very naive, yes.[17:38:35] <tuxick> Intelo: yes, all those marketeers should get a proper job[17:38:41] <Intelo> blackflow, hm[17:40:09] <Intelo> tuxick, spam is a definition made by some humans/so called authority. The nature of tv/youtube ads is also spam. So is bilboards[17:40:19] <Intelo> its injected[17:40:32] <Intelo> advertising = ways to inject your product info into others mind[17:40:57] <Intelo> blackflow, alright.[17:41:06] <Intelo> blackflow, interesting[17:41:13] <tuxick> it's psychotic :)[17:41:24] <Intelo> tuxick, its phylosophy[17:41:44] <tuxick> billboards make the world an uglier place[17:41:52] <thumbs> see, I don't mind inquisitive minds, but he just lacks any experience with things are run, and is extremely naive.[17:42:02] <thumbs> *how things[17:42:16] *** rob_ <rob_!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has joined #postfix[17:42:34] <Intelo> thumbs, difference between insanity and ingenius is only measured by success.[17:43:02] <thumbs> how would one interpret your lack of success, then? heh.[17:43:18] <Intelo> thumbs, you have anything better to say :_)?[17:43:26] <blackflow> Intelo: bottom line, even if you manage rate limiting. People receiving unwanted mail will report your mail as spam. If you purchase recipient lists, some/many of them will be spamtraps. Both will get you blacklisted, there's now ay around that. Spam is annoying but thankfully punishable.[17:43:46] <Intelo> blackflow, I sent legit to subscribers but my ip and domain got blocked[17:43:47] <thumbs> Intelo: it all stems back to your original question.[17:43:58] <Intelo> thumbs, its ok. nevermind[17:44:25] <blackflow> Intelo: that will happen too. people who subscribed changing their mind later. it's easier to click "This is spam", than to go through the unsubscribe process.[17:44:28] <Intelo> blackflow, lists were not purchased. And what do you mean by spamtraps[17:44:30] <thumbs> the best you can do is follow removal procedures if an occasional is marked as spam.[17:44:48] <blackflow> Intelo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spamtrap[17:44:55] <jaybe> if people and or systems are flagging your origination and your content/traffic as spam then that's because that's how it's being interpreted. you'll want to adapt your approach to avoid such things if those things are not desired.[17:45:17] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-107-243.socal.res.rr.com> has joined #postfix[17:45:51] <thumbs> but as blackflow said, some folks will invariably flag those as spam, regardless.[17:46:03] <blackflow> speaking of which, Webhostingtalk got breached, OR they sold their userbase to spammers. started getting mail to my wht-only hard to guess otherwise, address.[17:46:24] <tuxick> problem with unsubscribe links is joe clicker doesn't trust those[17:46:34] <thumbs> blackflow: likely dictionary attacks.[17:46:39] <tuxick> "clicking on something means getting hacked"[17:47:49] <Intelo> blackflow, jaybe ok. The blacklisters just dont respond/delist. How many days is usual for the domain to get delisted? I can change IP of server anytime and actually plan that too.[17:47:50] <blackflow> thumbs: maybe.[17:47:58] <Intelo> tuxick, for the first time I agree with you[17:48:17] <thumbs> Intelo: wrong approach. Get delisted, do not try from another IP.[17:49:00] <Intelo> thumbs, why not leave the ip and put effort to get delisted with domain?[17:49:09] <thumbs> yet another weird knee-jerk response.[17:49:11] *** TyrfingMjolnir <TyrfingMjolnir!~Tyrfing@62.92.82.250> has joined #postfix[17:49:47] <thumbs> Intelo: good mail server admins will see through your actions. Good luck getting delisted in the future then.[17:50:02] <blackflow> Intelo: if your provider is allowing you to change (so many) IPv4 addresses (because you got blacklisted), then they probably allow such activity and are thus probably already blacklisted by subnet.[17:50:19] <Intelo> thumbs, don't expect everyone in the world you keep on talking, to respond and talk like you expect :) Solution: a) be flexible with your expectations b) avoid people you dont like the responses[17:50:37] <Intelo> thumbs, I see. I thought the process was automatic mostly[17:50:52] <thumbs> Intelo: you're very confused. It's not about not "liking" you. It's about how silly and wrong your approaches are.[17:51:11] <thumbs> Intelo: you have wrong expectations, and make wrong assumptions.[17:51:16] <Intelo> blackflow, the IP was not blacklisted until I started blasting mails[17:51:20] <blackflow> Hell, we got in a subnet blacklist with Outlook few months ago, and we use Hetzner who has zero tolerance for spam. They will actually ask you to leave if you get repeated complaints.[17:51:41] <thumbs> Intelo: protip: do not blast emails.[17:51:47] <tuxick> :)[17:51:56] <blackflow> I delisted, Outlook automated message says they'll put our IP on an exception list, unless they see spam from us, all is good. this happens usually once or twice a year.[17:52:23] <blackflow> Intelo: which is one more important thing: if you delist and are blacklisted again, the next time will be much harder or impossible to delist in any reasonable timeframe.[17:52:31] <thumbs> blackflow: if you're quick at handling the issue, things usually go well.[17:52:34] <Intelo> thumbs, my approaches might be different from what expereince and thoughts you have. I also see another difference that i do not use negative words like 'silly' 'wrong'[17:52:34] <blackflow> at least with Spamhaus, they wont even talk to you :)[17:52:42] <blackflow> thumbs: right.[17:52:55] <thumbs> Intelo: no, you just do things incorrectly.[17:53:03] <Intelo> blackflow, hetzner?[17:53:18] <blackflow> one of hosting companies we host our servers with.[17:53:37] <thumbs> Intelo: try googling words before asking us what they mean.[17:53:40] <Intelo> blackflow, when you say delist. Is it the ip or domain?[17:53:59] <Intelo> blackflow, ya. same problem. Smaphaus not talking to me[17:54:21] <blackflow> IP. we don't spam, none of domains in our management ever got blacklisted. this was IP subnet. our IP was in a subnet that Outlook blacklisted because someone else, in that subnet, was spamming.[17:54:25] <thumbs> !tell Intelo google[17:54:25] <knoba> Intelo: "google" : Those who use Google before reading the Postfix documentation, if fortunate, end up at http://www.postfix.org/ . If not, they end up in a jumble of bad questions, misleading or wrong answers, and outdated information.[17:54:28] <thumbs> err[17:54:41] <thumbs> what is that trigger about not asking us to google for them?[17:55:39] <Intelo> thumbs, no.. no google. More interested in asking the person who wrote the word. He might want to add something from experience to it. As an adult I know what google is. Don't you think?[17:56:09] <Intelo> thumbs, stop expecting others to do things and think in the manner you think. I am different.[17:56:20] <thumbs> Intelo: it's called being a "support vampire"[17:56:27] <thumbs> (not "different")[17:56:31] <Intelo> (thumbs up) :)[17:56:46] <jaybe> you are 'different'?[17:56:54] <thumbs> and you should not be proud of that, either.[17:56:58] <jaybe> do you have blood and anatomical parts and such and reside on this planet?[17:56:59] <Intelo> jaybe, I have two nose[17:57:05] <jaybe> you're about as different as a bunion[17:57:13] <jaybe> predictable and transparent even[17:57:17] <Intelo> thumbs, I am never proud or demotivated. Iam just me.[17:57:24] <jaybe> quicker you comprehend and accept that there better off you may be[17:57:47] <Intelo> thumbs, don't tell others on how they should feel about them self (proud/naive) etc[17:58:00] * jaybe very briskly runs off[17:58:07] <thumbs> Intelo: you're very much a support vampire, and a drain on this channel.[17:58:08] <Intelo> jaybe, transparent is what I like[17:58:26] <Intelo> I can leave..[17:58:37] <Intelo> Don't want to be one if you think[17:58:49] <Intelo> no offence.[17:59:15] <Intelo> But being pressured is not Intelo ; never.[17:59:53] <Intelo> blackflow, thanks! bye for now.[17:59:56] *** Intelo <Intelo!~Intelo@gateway/tor-sasl/intelo> has left #postfix ("Leaving")[18:03:12] <thumbs> (hopefully never)[18:49:08] *** edux <edux!~edux@190.247.36.76> has joined #postfix[18:49:47] <lunaphyte> !parrot[18:49:47] <knoba> lunaphyte: "parrot" : please don't repeat what someone else has said and tack a question mark on to the end. if you don't understand something about what was said, or have a question, that's fine - just ask it. those who donate their time here aren't interested in guessing what the ? actually means, typing an explanation, and hoping that they're right.[18:49:56] <lunaphyte> !encyclopedia[18:49:56] <knoba> lunaphyte: "encyclopedia" : please don't treat the people here as encyclopedias. if a term or concept is introduced that you're not familiar with, then use your favorite search engine and go read about it. do *not* immediately ask what is <newterm>?[18:49:59] *** edux <edux!~edux@190.247.36.76> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[18:54:32] <thumbs> thanks[19:56:50] *** rsx <rsx!~rsx@ppp-46-244-240-153.dynamic.mnet-online.de> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[19:57:13] *** rob_ <rob_!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[19:59:16] *** rob <rob!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has joined #postfix[19:59:39] *** rob is now known as Guest647[20:07:19] *** Guest647 <Guest647!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[20:12:52] *** rob_ <rob_!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has joined #postfix[20:55:41] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-107-243.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[20:56:22] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-107-243.socal.res.rr.com> has joined #postfix[21:00:45] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-107-243.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[21:08:32] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-107-243.socal.res.rr.com> has joined #postfix[21:08:55] *** spammy <spammy!~shawniver@208-70-47-114.bb.hrtc.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[21:17:07] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-107-243.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[21:18:47] *** shibboleth <shibboleth!~shibbolet@gateway/tor-sasl/shibboleth> has joined #postfix[21:21:17] *** ]SiB[ <]SiB[!~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/sib/x-9459575> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[21:21:41] *** ]SiB[ <]SiB[!~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/sib/x-9459575> has joined #postfix[21:32:22] *** led_dark_1 <led_dark_1!~Thunderbi@46.173.197.56> has joined #postfix[21:33:39] *** led_dark_1 <led_dark_1!~Thunderbi@46.173.197.56> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[21:41:44] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-107-243.socal.res.rr.com> has joined #postfix[21:41:54] *** i1nfusion <i1nfusion!~i1nfusion@46.101.134.251> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[21:43:10] *** i1nfusion <i1nfusion!~i1nfusion@46.101.134.251> has joined #postfix[22:07:23] *** spammy <spammy!~shawniver@208-70-47-114.bb.hrtc.net> has joined #postfix[23:07:34] *** heroux <heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-lsniibjvprkvjbqf> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[23:09:07] *** heroux <heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-dyderazmsatnlecc> has joined #postfix