December 6, 2018 
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December 6, 2018 [00:00:02] *** limon <limon!~limon@unaffiliated/limon> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)[00:01:02] *** MACscr <MACscr!~MACscr@c-98-215-100-46.hsd1.il.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)[00:01:18] *** limon <limon!~limon@unaffiliated/limon> has joined #postfix[00:09:03] *** edux <edux!~edux@190.247.36.76> has joined #postfix[00:12:45] *** terp <terp!~terp@77.68.214.134> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[00:14:11] *** terp <terp!~terp@77.68.214.134> has joined #postfix[00:14:35] <pj> cybrNaut: your email client is probably that smart, but just so you know, uuencode is old, and while it does work, base64 encoding is what everyone has been doing for 20+ years now.[00:25:20] *** AnrDaemon <AnrDaemon!~ZNC@darkdragon-nln.starlink.ru> has joined #postfix[00:26:39] <AnrDaemon> Hm. Do I need a spam filter (spamassassin in my case) on a baŃkup relay? How would I synchronize the learning bases? Is there any examples?[00:33:07] *** NightMonkey <NightMonkey!~NightMonk@pdpc/supporter/professional/nightmonkey> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[00:34:19] *** NightMonkey <NightMonkey!~NightMonk@pdpc/supporter/professional/nightmonkey> has joined #postfix[00:34:19] *** n_1-c_k <n_1-c_k!~nick@2a02:8010:63a6::70> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[00:34:36] *** n_1-c_k <n_1-c_k!~nick@2a02:8010:63a6::70> has joined #postfix[00:37:13] *** delacroix <delacroix!~delacroix@ip5f59780d.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)[00:40:06] *** delacroix <delacroix!~delacroix@2a02:810c:e3f:e500:21e:2aff:fe47:c90f> has joined #postfix[00:42:55] *** delacroix <delacroix!~delacroix@2a02:810c:e3f:e500:21e:2aff:fe47:c90f> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[00:43:54] *** graphene <graphene!~graphene@46.101.134.251> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[00:45:04] *** graphene <graphene!~graphene@46.101.134.251> has joined #postfix[00:46:28] *** delacroix <delacroix!~delacroix@ip5f59780d.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de> has joined #postfix[00:47:01] *** ]SiB[ <]SiB[!~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/sib/x-9459575> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[00:56:06] *** reiffert <reiffert!~foobar@p4FF691AD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Disconnected by services)[00:56:21] *** reiffert <reiffert!~foobar@p4FF6978E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #postfix[01:04:22] *** limon <limon!~limon@unaffiliated/limon> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)[01:05:40] *** limon <limon!~limon@unaffiliated/limon> has joined #postfix[01:08:16] *** cemotyz09 <cemotyz09!~cemotyz09@cpe-70-121-128-59.satx.res.rr.com> has joined #postfix[01:13:18] *** kermit <kermit!~zip55413@pdpc/supporter/bronze/kermit> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[01:16:48] *** kermit <kermit!~zip55413@pdpc/supporter/bronze/kermit> has joined #postfix[01:22:03] *** limon <limon!~limon@unaffiliated/limon> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)[01:23:18] *** limon <limon!~limon@unaffiliated/limon> has joined #postfix[01:33:10] *** MuffinMedic is now known as MuffinMD[01:38:20] *** edux <edux!~edux@190.247.36.76> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[01:56:11] *** pouledodue <pouledodue!~textual@modemcable208.40-57-74.mc.videotron.ca> has joined #postfix[01:58:48] *** graphene <graphene!~graphene@46.101.134.251> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[01:59:46] *** MrC is now known as MrClaus[01:59:57] *** graphene <graphene!~graphene@46.101.134.251> has joined #postfix[02:18:22] *** pouledodue <pouledodue!~textual@modemcable208.40-57-74.mc.videotron.ca> has quit IRC (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)[02:30:33] *** limon <limon!~limon@unaffiliated/limon> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)[02:32:53] *** MACscr <MACscr!~MACscr@c-98-215-100-46.hsd1.il.comcast.net> has joined #postfix[02:37:06] *** enix <enix!~enix@104.156.233.217> has joined #postfix[02:37:59] <enix> Sorry to join and ask; I have enix.com and enix.net, if I want enix at enix dot net emails to be relayed to enix at enix dot com using postfix, is that in the transport_map file?[02:39:50] <enix> cat /etc/postfix/transport | grep enix[02:39:50] <enix> enix at enix dot net enix at enix dot com[02:40:49] <enix> I might have messed up reading docs acutally ..[02:42:28] <lunaphyte> !tell enix virtual_alias_maps[02:42:29] <knoba> enix: "virtual_alias_maps" : A configuration parameter in the main.cf: Optional lookup tables that alias specific mail addresses or domains to other local or remote addresses. The table format and lookups are documented in virtual(5).[02:43:23] *** edux <edux!~edux@190.247.36.76> has joined #postfix[02:44:43] *** limon <limon!~limon@unaffiliated/limon> has joined #postfix[02:58:38] *** keanne <keanne!~kenneth@112.199.79.125> has joined #postfix[03:04:52] *** thansen <thansen!~thansen@mx.thansen.me> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[03:05:17] *** thansen <thansen!~thansen@mx.thansen.me> has joined #postfix[03:06:07] *** eelstrebor <eelstrebor!~eelstrebo@216-75-116-100.allophone.biz> has quit IRC (Quit: Ex-Chat)[03:09:36] *** rob <rob!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has joined #postfix[03:10:01] *** rob is now known as Guest99842[03:14:12] *** Guest99842 <Guest99842!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[03:20:12] <enix> okay I have definitely misread the doco. Thanks lunaphyte[03:26:23] *** Blubberbop <Blubberbop!~quassel@mail.capmega.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[03:28:01] *** Blubberbop <Blubberbop!~quassel@mx1.capmegamail.com> has joined #postfix[03:29:07] *** eelstrebor <eelstrebor!~eelstrebo@216-75-116-100.allophone.biz> has joined #postfix[03:39:20] *** DTZUZO <DTZUZO!~DTZUZO@S0106bcd16584b0aa.vs.shawcable.net> has joined #postfix[03:41:30] *** nomeed <nomeed!~nomeed@p5B2E2CAC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[03:42:36] *** rob_ <rob_!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has joined #postfix[03:44:42] *** nomeed <nomeed!~nomeed@p5B2E2852.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #postfix[03:47:58] *** ced117 <ced117!~ced117@opensuse/member/ced117> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[03:51:54] *** rob_ <rob_!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[03:52:46] *** DTZUZO <DTZUZO!~DTZUZO@S0106bcd16584b0aa.vs.shawcable.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[03:54:28] *** MuffinMD is now known as MuffinMedic[03:55:04] *** ced117 <ced117!~ced117@opensuse/member/ced117> has joined #postfix[03:55:50] *** edux <edux!~edux@190.247.36.76> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[03:58:53] *** edux <edux!~edux@190.247.36.76> has joined #postfix[04:08:09] *** edux <edux!~edux@190.247.36.76> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[04:08:33] *** rob <rob!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has joined #postfix[04:08:39] *** andylavarre <andylavarre!~andy@mobile-107-107-58-206.mycingular.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[04:08:57] *** rob is now known as Guest17716[04:12:53] *** Guest17716 <Guest17716!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[04:13:26] *** DTZUZO <DTZUZO!~DTZUZO@24.244.23.224> has joined #postfix[04:15:12] *** rob <rob!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has joined #postfix[04:15:35] *** rob is now known as Guest37753[04:20:04] *** Guest37753 <Guest37753!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[04:21:55] *** DTZUZO <DTZUZO!~DTZUZO@24.244.23.224> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[04:42:43] *** n_1-c_k <n_1-c_k!~nick@2a02:8010:63a6::70> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[04:43:05] *** n_1-c_k <n_1-c_k!~nick@2a02:8010:63a6::70> has joined #postfix[04:43:12] *** angersec <angersec!~quassel@quassel.angersec.com> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[04:45:25] *** angersec <angersec!~quassel@quassel.angersec.com> has joined #postfix[04:52:35] *** angersec <angersec!~quassel@quassel.angersec.com> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[04:54:19] *** angersec <angersec!~quassel@quassel.angersec.com> has joined #postfix[05:12:30] *** Konichiwa <Konichiwa!~Konichiwa@host-72-175-167-98.ftm-co.client.bresnan.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[05:25:39] *** Konichiwa <Konichiwa!~Konichiwa@2600-6c67-8d7f-fd01-021e-4fff-feee-1498.res6.spectrum.com> has joined #postfix[05:37:39] *** icestorm <icestorm!325380b3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.83.128.179> has joined #postfix[05:38:21] *** icestorm <icestorm!325380b3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.83.128.179> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[05:38:48] *** delsol <delsol!325380b3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.83.128.179> has joined #postfix[05:51:17] <delsol> so is there a way to reject senders from mydestination domains unless they are authenticated? I'm getting some stupid spam apparently from myself.[05:52:10] <delsol> something like: smtpd_sender_restrictions = permit_sasl_authenticated permit_mynetworks reject maybe?[05:52:31] <thumbs> don't use permit_mynetworks[05:53:36] <thumbs> users must use submission/submissions[05:56:21] <delsol> I dont understand. Whats wrong with mynetworks if I've just got like 4 IP's there?[05:57:10] <jaybe> "I'm getting some stupid spam apparently from myself."[05:57:11] <jaybe> ^[05:57:16] <jaybe> avoids that[05:57:21] <delsol> Its not coming from my servers.[05:57:28] *** cemotyz09 <cemotyz09!~cemotyz09@cpe-70-121-128-59.satx.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[05:57:48] <delsol> its coming from south america, relayed through germany, with a from address of my address.[05:58:41] <delsol> or at least thats what it looked like when I looked at the full headers.[06:00:25] <thumbs> don't allow relaying based on IPs alone, no.[06:00:35] <thumbs> !tell delsol submission[06:00:35] <knoba> delsol: "submission" : Port 587 is submission, for user submission of mail, NOT suitable for mail exchange. See the commented example in master.cf. also see !msa, and rfc 6409. Also read http://www.maawg.org/sites/maawg/files/news/MAAWG_Port25rec0511.pdf[06:00:36] <thumbs> !tell delsol submissions[06:00:36] <knoba> delsol: "submissions" : RFC 8314 renames the old smtps port, 465/tcp, to submissions, with implicit TLS rather than explicit STARTTLS via a plaintext TCP connection. Postfix can implement submissions with a separate smtpd(8) listener with "-o smtpd_tls_wrappermode=yes". See the commented example for "smtps" in master.cf.[06:04:56] <delsol> I'm not sure either of those are my problem.[06:07:30] <thumbs> delsol: it's definitely a problem you have.[06:07:45] <thumbs> delsol: you do not want to allow relaying based on the source IP, ever.[06:10:52] <delsol> ... why not?[06:12:34] <delsol> 127.0.0.1, and another couple IP's in the same small subnet that send a few messages here and there don't seem to be big risks.[06:16:11] <jaybe> it's better and best to require authentication per submission[06:16:17] <jaybe> that's another way of looking at it[06:17:28] *** rob <rob!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has joined #postfix[06:17:51] *** rob is now known as Guest17786[06:22:08] *** Guest17786 <Guest17786!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[06:22:08] *** kermit <kermit!~zip55413@pdpc/supporter/bronze/kermit> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[06:34:23] *** rob_ <rob_!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has joined #postfix[06:39:06] *** rob_ <rob_!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[06:59:09] *** kermit <kermit!~zip55413@pdpc/supporter/bronze/kermit> has joined #postfix[07:01:17] *** rob <rob!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has joined #postfix[07:01:41] *** rob is now known as Guest4070[07:11:27] *** Guest4070 <Guest4070!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[07:28:55] *** led_dark_1 <led_dark_1!~Thunderbi@hotspot10.rywasoft.net> has quit IRC (Quit: led_dark_1)[07:33:27] *** led_dark_1 <led_dark_1!~Thunderbi@hotspot10.rywasoft.net> has joined #postfix[07:34:54] *** cryptic_ <cryptic_!~cryptic@142.196.139.17> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[07:48:51] *** rob_ <rob_!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has joined #postfix[07:53:47] *** olegfusion <olegfusion!~olegfusio@mail.mobileforsale.ru> has joined #postfix[08:04:06] *** rob_ <rob_!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[08:33:06] *** Wioxjk <Wioxjk!~Free@81-235-33-215-no286.tbcn.telia.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[08:37:48] *** Wioxjk <Wioxjk!~Free@81-235-33-215-no286.tbcn.telia.com> has joined #postfix[08:44:13] *** delsol <delsol!325380b3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.83.128.179> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)[08:45:46] *** rob_ <rob_!~rob@5ED0E3DB.cm-7-1d.dynamic.ziggo.nl> has joined #postfix[08:47:42] *** KlevinK <KlevinK!~KlevinK@77.242.22.154> has joined #postfix[08:47:51] <KlevinK> hello guys[08:47:52] <KlevinK> https://ssl-tools.net/mailservers/mail.troop224lafayette.com[08:48:06] <KlevinK> i changed my postfix domain[08:48:19] <KlevinK> but i am inable to change the domain ssl[08:48:26] <KlevinK> any suggestion on this?[08:53:01] <keanne> sorry but it's self signed.. I don't understand why you cannot?[08:55:41] *** irdr <irdr!~irdr@bzq-109-67-92-144.red.bezeqint.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[09:01:23] *** ]SiB[ <]SiB[!~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/sib/x-9459575> has joined #postfix[09:02:27] <keanne> and for some reason, ssl-tools.net seems to using outdated dns entries for me. i prefer checktls.com, the report is more informative too[09:07:22] *** faizy_ <faizy_!~faizy98@111.68.104.153> has joined #postfix[09:07:30] *** internat <internat!~nf@61.69.154.66> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[09:08:05] *** internat <internat!~nf@61.69.154.66> has joined #postfix[09:09:58] *** faizy98 <faizy98!~faizy98@111.68.104.153> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[09:15:49] <KlevinK> keanne how to update that?[09:16:40] <KlevinK> keanne i did test in checktls.com[09:16:41] <KlevinK> No Mail eXchangers found; will try TLS directly to host[09:16:41] <KlevinK> Trying TLS on mail.troop224lafayette.com[173.255.251.42:25] (0):[09:16:41] <KlevinK> seconds test stage and result[09:16:41] <KlevinK> [000.072] Cannot connect to server (reason: Connection refused)[09:23:01] *** faizy_ <faizy_!~faizy98@111.68.104.153> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[09:35:48] *** Vamp898 <Vamp898!c19e33fe@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.193.158.51.254> has joined #postfix[09:51:57] *** mikecmpbll <mikecmpbll!~mikecmpbl@ruby/staff/mikecmpbll> has joined #postfix[09:54:56] *** mTeK <mTeK!~quassel@216.249.97.206> has quit IRC (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.)[09:55:11] *** hugoShaka <hugoShaka!~hugoShaka@mugen.shaka.xyz> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[09:56:13] *** mTeK <mTeK!~quassel@216.249.97.206> has joined #postfix[09:56:17] <blackflow> KlevinK: please define how you are unable to change the domain for the SSL certificate. You said earlier it's letsencrypt. Just change the domain in the config file and re-run the acme client[09:56:18] *** hugoShaka <hugoShaka!~hugoShaka@mugen.shaka.xyz> has joined #postfix[09:56:31] *** xMopx <xMopx!~xMopx@192.95.23.134> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[09:56:46] *** peb` <peb`!~Coin@unaffiliated/peb/x-8260976> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[09:57:38] *** colona <colona!~colona@grunt.ycc.fr> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[09:58:34] *** colona <colona!~colona@grunt.ycc.fr> has joined #postfix[10:03:30] <survietamine> why didn't you set MX record?[10:04:06] *** xMopx <xMopx!~xMopx@192.95.23.134> has joined #postfix[10:04:32] <survietamine> and why your mail server isn't responding on port 25?[10:06:36] *** DTZUZU <DTZUZU!~DTZUZU@S0106bcd16584b0aa.vs.shawcable.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[10:09:15] *** DTZUZU <DTZUZU!~DTZUZU@S0106bcd16584b0aa.vs.shawcable.net> has joined #postfix[10:09:48] *** peb` <peb`!~Coin@unaffiliated/peb/x-8260976> has joined #postfix[10:14:41] <KlevinK> so i setup the initial server with domain.net and next i needed to change to domain.com.[10:15:04] <KlevinK> i changed the domain etc but not sure how to change the cert[10:15:52] <KlevinK> survietamine maybe due to tests that i am doing[10:15:57] <KlevinK> guys i am stuck[10:16:17] <KlevinK> any idea or docuemntation hwo to change the cert for the postfix to have the correct cofngiuration[10:16:18] <KlevinK> ?[10:16:26] *** mz` <mz`!~emerick@gandi/mz> has quit IRC (Quit: WeeChat 1.6)[10:17:27] *** mz` <mz`!~mz@gandi/mz> has joined #postfix[10:20:28] *** kermit <kermit!~zip55413@pdpc/supporter/bronze/kermit> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[10:20:50] <keanne> KlevinK: fixed 1st your mail delivery problem. 1st, no one can send an email to you, do dont have an MX record. 2nd, your smtp port is closed.[10:24:34] <keanne> https://troop224lafayette.com uses let's encrypt certificate. Is this the same server? Postfix could definitely use let's encrypt cert so you could just generate one for your email domain[10:24:35] *** KlevinK <KlevinK!~KlevinK@77.242.22.154> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[10:25:05] *** KlevinK <KlevinK!~KlevinK@77.242.22.154> has joined #postfix[10:26:52] <blackflow> keanne: you do know that in absence of an explicit MX record, the A/AAAA record is used?[10:29:30] <KlevinK> keanne smtp in place[10:31:09] *** CyberCr33p <CyberCr33p!~chris@athedsl-4448501.home.otenet.gr> has joined #postfix[10:31:14] *** AlexPortable <AlexPortable!uid7568@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-brmxzastbljjuvdw> has joined #postfix[10:31:35] <KlevinK> keanne i tested sending / receivng emails and it works ok[10:32:34] <CyberCr33p> hello[10:40:04] <keanne> KlevinK: not from here, the only ports open in mail.troop224lafayette.com is http and https[10:42:05] <KlevinK> keanne please try via ip 173.255.251.42[10:42:45] <keanne> blackflow: yes. but my best practice is to always have an MX. specially having spf is a norm nowadays[10:43:12] <blackflow> keanne: that's fine. but "no MX == no one can send you mail" is blatantly wrong.[10:43:33] <keanne> blackflow: ah. yep. my wordings is definitely wrong[10:43:46] <keanne> my bad[10:43:55] <blackflow> ;)[10:44:29] <KlevinK> ok cert changed[10:44:29] <KlevinK> https://ssl-tools.net/mailservers/troop224lafayette.com[10:44:50] <KlevinK> But i see the outgoings emails are marked like not encrypted[10:44:53] <KlevinK> if i test at my gmail[10:44:59] <KlevinK> i do not see any non encrypted sign[10:46:56] <blackflow> KlevinK: how do you see that? and what do you mean by encrypted? outbound TLS? or mail contents (which has nothing to do with SMTP)[10:47:22] <KlevinK> blackflow[10:47:23] <KlevinK> https://ssl-tools.net/mailservers/troop224lafayette.com[10:47:37] <KlevinK> blackflow please check Outgoing Mails section[10:48:13] <CyberCr33p> I want to relay e-mail from different smtp when the from header is a specific user. It's better to do it with header_checks or there is also possible with sender_access ?[10:50:47] <blackflow> KlevinK: whats your smtp_tls_security_level set to? perhaps pastebin postconf -n[10:51:34] <KlevinK> smtp_tls_security_level = encrypt[10:56:19] *** keanne <keanne!~kenneth@112.199.79.125> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[10:59:19] *** jalalsfs <jalalsfs!~jalalsfs@unaffiliated/jalalsfs> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[10:59:25] *** olegfusion <olegfusion!~olegfusio@mail.mobileforsale.ru> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[10:59:43] *** jalalsfs <jalalsfs!~jalalsfs@unaffiliated/jalalsfs> has joined #postfix[11:02:29] <blackflow> KlevinK: in that case I have no idea what that ssl-tools test means by "no encryption" on outbound. btw, "encrypt" (as in mandatory) might not be the best option if you want compatibility. not all (recieving) MTAs will support that.[11:03:10] <survietamine> hmm, so, your tls problem is about mail out[11:03:18] <survietamine> maybe try some tools like this: http://www.mail-tester.com/[11:03:36] <survietamine> and read postfix documentation if you didn't do it[11:03:41] <survietamine> !tls[11:03:41] <knoba> survietamine: "tls" : Transport Layer Security (RFC2246). Previously known as SSL, TLS adds a layer of encryption to protocols such as SMTP, submission, IMAP or POP3 to improve security during transmission over the Internet. TLS is implemented using the STARTTLS method, while the non-standard wrapper style of implementation is deprecated at this point. See http://www.postfix.org/TLS_README.html for more info.[11:04:22] *** Blubberbop <Blubberbop!~quassel@mx1.capmegamail.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[11:04:31] <survietamine> if you want efficient support from this channel, try to follow directives in the topic[11:09:04] <blackflow> I'd argue that RFC 8314 would put a dent into that "deprecated".[11:30:58] <survietamine> yes, that factoid is obsolete, but like always, people moving will take a looooong time[11:33:10] <survietamine> maybe you could update the factoid[11:35:09] <cybrNaut> jimpop: actually it doesn't work for me either. Mutt just shows the blob of text. But apparently it works for enough people that I've seen it in scripts and docs out in the wild.[11:37:14] <cybrNaut> pj: the reason I want to understand why uuencode works is to determine whether I can send someone a PDF file using a contact form on a webpage. If base64 works just as well without MIME headers then I'd be happy to use it.[11:39:34] *** CyberCr33p <CyberCr33p!~chris@athedsl-4448501.home.otenet.gr> has quit IRC (Quit: CyberCr33p)[11:43:32] <JPT> Just so i am sure - when the postscreen manual mentions memcache_tables, this actually refers to running a memcached somewhere. Is that correct?[11:45:47] <JPT> ... i guess the port number used in the examples clears my question. :)[11:54:09] *** kermit <kermit!~zip55413@pdpc/supporter/bronze/kermit> has joined #postfix[11:55:06] *** Blubberbop <Blubberbop!~quassel@mail.capmega.com> has joined #postfix[11:59:59] *** olegfusion <olegfusion!~olegfusio@mail.mobileforsale.ru> has joined #postfix[12:01:25] <blackflow> cybrNaut: but even then, would it really be so difficult to use encoded body in properly wrapped mime block? surely there are libs and tools for that as well. I mean "wheter I can send..." yes, of course you can.[12:03:31] <blackflow> cybrNaut: assuming PHP (you said web form), for example: https://help.dreamhost.com/hc/en-us/articles/215842658-PHPmailer-overview[12:07:02] <JPT> I just introduced postscreen for our two frontend mx servers. It was so easy, i question myself why i didn't try this sooner.[12:16:51] *** mejo <mejo!~mejo@debian/developer/mejo> has joined #postfix[12:17:06] <cybrNaut> blackflow: i think you're assuming i'm in control of the webpage. I occasionally need to send PDFs to the contact pages of sites I don't control.. they may use PHP or may not. I have no way of adding headers to whatever email the web server generates from the contact form[12:19:46] <mejo> I've a simple question regarding smtpd_sender_restrictions: the docs say "Restrictions are applied in the order as specified; the first restriction that matches wins.". Does this mean, that the first matching permit restriction outrules all subsequent reject rules?[12:20:57] *** Konichiwa <Konichiwa!~Konichiwa@2600-6c67-8d7f-fd01-021e-4fff-feee-1498.res6.spectrum.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[12:20:58] <mejo> in other words: do I have to define reject_* restrictions first if I want them to apply even to the scope of permit_* restrictions?[12:23:09] <blackflow> cybrNaut: you're not making much sense then. you can't send mail "to the contact pages of sites".[12:23:30] <blackflow> perhaps to avoid XY issue, you explain what you're doing, what you're expecting to happen and what's happening instead?[12:24:13] <cybrNaut> blackflow: i can "uuencode $file $file | xsel" and then I can paste the clipboard into the body of a contact page. Are you saying that will not work?[12:24:57] <blackflow> what's that have to do with #postfix tho'? I thought your question was about sending mail[12:25:17] <cybrNaut> i've not tested this.. I want to understand first if it's possible to send a PDF via contact page so ppl don't get junk from me[12:25:22] <blackflow> (and your previous example had uuencode ... | mail .... )[12:25:40] <blackflow> cybrNaut: totally depends on how the site is treating that textarea.[12:25:48] <cybrNaut> sorry for being off topic... I just figured #postfix experts will have the knowledge I'm after[12:27:39] <blackflow> which knowledge would that be? how to hack web forms to send data they aren't expecting?[12:32:48] <cybrNaut> it's about email, but i'm making an assumption that a contact page results in an email. How safe is the assumption is the first question. If it is likely that the content is sent by email, then it's just a question of whether MUAs will identify the file (and this is what I thought #postfix ppl might know)[12:34:59] <cybrNaut> guess i need an experienced webmaster to answer the first question[12:36:45] *** Konichiwa <Konichiwa!~Konichiwa@host-72-175-167-98.ftm-co.client.bresnan.net> has joined #postfix[12:36:46] <blackflow> I cannot imagine one legitimate use case where you'd use a contact form not under your control to inject a file into the resulting email (because there's no attachment button/option to the said form).[12:38:19] <blackflow> having said that, assuming (unlikely) legitimate case, it again totally depends on how the web form is treating the textarea. many limit it to a number of characters. plus, if the mail is not set for multipart data then all it carries is a big ascii string. so.... just no.[12:49:33] <cybrNaut> if i were in control of the webserver, i would implement an attachment field.[12:50:27] *** woxidu_home <woxidu_home!~woxidu@c-76-23-245-111.hsd1.ma.comcast.net> has joined #postfix[12:50:32] <cybrNaut> w.r.t legitimacy, you need to be a creative thinker.. to think outside the box to understand legit use cases[12:50:41] <blackflow> name one.[12:51:42] <cybrNaut> in the case at hand, someone does not publish their email address. They told me over the phone to send them info. I can type the info in the webform in plain text, but it will look ugly. It's more information than the person expected and should be formatted. PDF can do that[12:52:03] <cybrNaut> i often come across various similar circumstances[12:52:20] <blackflow> that's bs. because they can't tell you their e-mail address, over the phone, where to send the info?[12:52:37] <cybrNaut> often they have an email address, but their mail server is bad at separating spam from ham and i'm forced to use a contact page[12:53:01] *** woxidu <woxidu!~woxidu@2601:186:8280:20d9:38:b123:318b:3a6d> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[12:53:01] *** woxidu_home is now known as woxidu[12:53:02] <blackflow> sounds to me like you're trying to spam here. send unsolicited info, and hack web forms while doing that... I wonder if there's a policy in #postfix wrt such questions[12:53:14] <cybrNaut> blackflow: indeed i could call them back and if lucky get them on the phone (i'm often redirected to a voice greeting that doesn't accept messages)[12:53:22] <blackflow> totally sounds like spamming.[12:53:49] <cybrNaut> and if I do get them on the phone, then I'm left with transcribing text from what they say over the phone.. that's not a good way to disclose email addresses[12:54:09] <blackflow> yep, spamming.[12:54:22] <cybrNaut> i'm the customer. They want me to do business with them.[12:54:30] <blackflow> how 'bout you direct them to your site and tell them to opt-in to receive info from you?[12:54:48] <cybrNaut> it's established that they want my business.. they asked me to send them information[12:54:57] <cybrNaut> if they didn't want the info, they would not have asked for it[12:55:06] <cybrNaut> i don't have a site[12:55:11] <cybrNaut> why would a customer have a site?[12:55:21] <cybrNaut> again, i'm the *customer*[12:55:24] <blackflow> they want you to do business with you but don't care about providing legitimate ways of communication beyond phone? yeah, not buying. I'm done with this subject, thanks for playing spam.[12:55:54] <cybrNaut> this has already been explained to you[12:56:03] <cybrNaut> they are hard to reach[12:56:28] <cybrNaut> it's not worth the hassle to play phone tag until i get an email address[12:56:39] <cybrNaut> their contact form "just works"[12:57:03] <blackflow> a legitimate business that wants to do business with you, has no website, and doesn't tell you an email where to send more info. totally legit.[12:57:21] <cybrNaut> you still don't understand[12:57:25] <blackflow> *has no website with e-mail published[12:57:32] <cybrNaut> *they* have a website. I do not have a website[12:57:34] <cybrNaut> i'm the customer[12:58:10] <cybrNaut> blackflow> *has no website with e-mail published <= it happens. Some businesses withhold an email as an anti-spam approach[12:58:16] <cybrNaut> (apparently)[12:58:25] <cybrNaut> i can only guess why they don't publish an email address[13:00:17] <cybrNaut> most businesses don't have PGP keys either[13:00:17] *** n_1-c_k <n_1-c_k!~nick@2a02:8010:63a6::70> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[13:00:39] *** n_1-c_k <n_1-c_k!~nick@2a02:8010:63a6::70> has joined #postfix[13:00:41] <cybrNaut> which means their email address alone is useless in a security context[13:01:01] <cybrNaut> yet they have an HTTPS website, so the webform is secure from me to their server[13:01:35] <blackflow> yeah, well, sorry it's not a #postfix issue.[13:01:43] <cybrNaut> their server may send it unencrypted, but there's a better chance that the message takes a more secure path than if I email them[13:09:48] *** section1 <section1!~section1@178.33.109.106> has joined #postfix[13:12:55] *** irdr <irdr!~irdr@bzq-109-66-103-179.red.bezeqint.net> has joined #postfix[13:25:10] <blackflow> cybrNaut: click on the Contact link, go to web form, type your address name, and in the body of the message type: "Hello we spoke on the phone, this is my email address, please let me know where I can send you more info". done. so yeah no. your argument is BS and you're really trying to spam, or worse, send PDFs with malwer in them to unsuspecting recipients.[13:25:35] <blackflow> *malware[13:32:16] <cybrNaut> that invites me having to send something insecurely (they don't have a PGP key). i prefer to send the data HTTPS because then I'm doing everything on my end to ensure secure transit. If there's a leak on their end, it's their liability[13:35:22] <blackflow> no. you're really trying to spam and/or inject malware. your argument is still BS. there are legitimte ways of sending sensitive data. if anything you can have a website of your own and put the PDF behind a https link (though let's not kid ourselves with security of HTTPS really).[13:35:52] <blackflow> I'd really enjoy dismantling your BS arguments, but this is really offtopic for #postfix. you'll have to seek haxxor advice elsewhere.[13:39:00] <cybrNaut> blackflow> no. you're really trying to spam and/or inject malware. your argument is still BS. <= nonsense "there are legitimte ways of sending sensitive data" <= as i said, they don't have PGP. "if anything you can have a website of your own" <= an unreasonable amount of work and cost. Webservers need to be secured themselves. SSL CAs are not gratis either[13:40:02] <blackflow> lol[13:40:54] <cybrNaut> the only remotely sensible thing you've said is that it's off topic, but what you don't know is I run my own postfix server, and often cannot send email to ppl b/c they use outlook.com who doesn't like ppl running their own mail servers[13:41:17] <cybrNaut> same problem with @gmail addresses[13:41:44] <blackflow> then don't run own postfix server, duh.[13:41:47] <cybrNaut> I'm not generally willing to route through a babysitter who then keeps a copy of my metadata[13:42:12] <cybrNaut> no reason why I shouldn't run a postfix server[13:42:35] <cybrNaut> postfix servers can be setup to route through a relay (but i'm unwilling)[13:42:48] <blackflow> becuse outlook and gmail don't like ppl running their own mail servers, you just said so.[13:43:04] <cybrNaut> indeed[13:43:25] <blackflow> and for some reason you assume that all the routers and hops and relays between you and final recipient don't/can't "keep a copy of your metadata".[13:43:41] <cybrNaut> that's what i said. i'm not willing to let outlook and gmail dictate my email usage[13:43:47] <blackflow> if you wanna troll then at the very LEAST make an internaly consistent story, when you troll an expert community.[13:44:03] <blackflow> and I'm really done. thanks for playing.[13:44:28] <cybrNaut> and for some reason you assume that all the routers and hops and relays between you and final recipient don't/can't "keep a copy of your metadata" <= i'm saying just the opposite.. I said they *can* keep a copy of the metadata.[13:45:13] <cybrNaut> this is the problem.. google and microsoft want to force me to share my metadata.. they want me to dance for them, and route through a relay[13:45:27] <cybrNaut> i am not willing[13:46:33] <cybrNaut> so when outlook.com blocks my server, then what? I can bend over for them and use a relay, and allow privacy abuse to be imposed on me, or I can use the recipients HTTPS services[13:46:43] *** andylavarre <andylavarre!~andy@mobile-107-107-58-35.mycingular.net> has joined #postfix[13:52:25] *** linex <linex!~quassel@58.26.242.250> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[13:53:03] *** linex <linex!~quassel@58.26.242.250> has joined #postfix[13:53:50] <cybrNaut> thanks for playing.. think it through (as you've not fully grasped the situation yet), try again later if you want. Maybe try to recycle another defeated argument if you can't come up with anything new[14:10:58] *** Vamp898 <Vamp898!c19e33fe@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.193.158.51.254> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[14:16:54] *** AnrDaemon <AnrDaemon!~ZNC@darkdragon-nln.starlink.ru> has left #postfix ("I'm a happy Miranda IM user! Get it here: http://miranda-im.org")[14:18:12] *** |subz3r0| <|subz3r0|!~|subz3r0|@unaffiliated/subz3r0/x-1361105> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[14:20:15] *** Mikjaer <Mikjaer!~mikjaer@127-0-0-1.dk> has quit IRC (Quit: leaving)[14:26:38] <rob0> So I missed all the fun, but I suspect the underlying issue might be that your Postfix server is blocked for some reason? Who blocks you, and why? Fix that problem and you can send direct email.[14:34:29] <cybrNaut> rob0: microsoft and google block me. I don't need a static IP so google and ms blindly block all dynamic IPs even in cases where the ISP allows mail servers to run[14:35:23] <cybrNaut> i'm ethically opposed to paying for a static IP that I don't need, in order to dance for our corporate overlords[14:36:31] <cybrNaut> so i'm fine with telling recipients to get another email address if they have a gmail or outlook address and they want to receive email from me[14:37:46] <cybrNaut> consequently, i make heavier use of web contact forms than most ppl[14:37:51] *** ALowther_ <ALowther_!~quassel@108.190.224.222> has joined #postfix[14:39:19] <lunaphyte> get a vps[14:39:33] *** robinho86 <robinho86!~robson@177.96.154.143> has joined #postfix[14:39:42] <cybrNaut> i'd take a gratis one[14:39:56] <cybrNaut> otherwise i'm paying to dance for our corporate overlords[14:40:19] <lunaphyte> yeah, that's melodramatic, and hyperbolic. whatever[14:40:21] <cybrNaut> although on second thought, a VPS is less private than the bare metal in my basement[14:43:39] *** section1 <section1!~section1@178.33.109.106> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[14:43:52] *** section1 <section1!~section1@178.33.109.106> has joined #postfix[14:46:09] <rob0> Oh well, I would block you also. Corporate overlords or no, it's quite unrealistic to expect to be able to run a mail server on a dynamic address. That ship sailed 20 years ago.[14:48:25] *** robinho86 <robinho86!~robson@177.96.154.143> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[14:51:25] *** yogg <yogg!d4f146ca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.241.70.202> has joined #postfix[14:51:38] <yogg> Hi[14:51:51] *** |subz3r0| <|subz3r0|!~|subz3r0|@unaffiliated/subz3r0/x-1361105> has joined #postfix[14:54:37] <yogg> I have an problem with the "from" field in mails. I can send a mail with telnet like here: https://mediatemple.net/community/products/dv/204404584/sending-or-viewing-emails-using-telnet[14:56:37] <yogg> in the "mail from: " field I send "fake at mydomain dot com". After the "data" command I send "From: John Doe <realuser at otherdomain dot com>" then subject and so on[14:57:56] <yogg> In the postfix log I see from "fake at mydomain dot com" which is logical and in the mail itself (header) I see "From: John Doe <realuser at otherdomain dot com>" which is also logical[14:58:18] <lunaphyte> it's not clear to me what problem you're trying to solve[14:58:55] <rob0> Perhaps you are not fully understanding the SMTP "envelope" in relation to email headers?[14:59:04] <yogg> My SPF check only checks the "fake at mydomain dot com" and I search for an way to prevent this[14:59:15] <lunaphyte> you cannot[14:59:51] <rob0> SPF is a check of the envelope sender.[15:00:39] *** abf_ <abf_!~abf@2601:404:c101:234::533f> has joined #postfix[15:01:35] <yogg> Ok so is there any way to check if the envelope sender diffs from the "from" header in the mail?[15:01:56] <yogg> Or is SPF this broken that such a simple trick disables it?[15:02:03] <rob0> content filtering, and again, what problem are you trying to solve?[15:02:12] <lunaphyte> there is no "trick", and nothing is getting "disabled"[15:02:17] <rob0> SPF is weak, yes[15:02:19] <petn-randall> yogg: It's no "trick", there's just a misunderstanding on your side.[15:02:25] <lunaphyte> yes, what is the actual problem you are trying to solve?[15:03:34] <petn-randall> yogg: If you assumption is that the envelope sender and from header should be the same, that's just a wrong assumption. If you would enforce that, probably 80% of your legitimate mail wouldn't get through to you.[15:03:43] <petn-randall> *your[15:05:56] <yogg> In my mailprogram I see "John Doe <realuser at otherdomain dot com>" which is not true (so its a litte tricky I think ;) ). I think I understand the problem here. And if I understand it correctly there is absolute no way that I can filter such mails?[15:06:25] <lunaphyte> you cannot require the from header and envelope sender be the same[15:06:30] <lunaphyte> it's simply not how email works[15:06:33] *** Diemuzi <Diemuzi!~IceChat9@unaffiliated/diemuzi> has joined #postfix[15:06:43] <lunaphyte> why is it a problem that they are not the same?[15:06:49] <yogg> In my head the SPF check should be done on the "From" filed in the mail header and not on the envelope sender?[15:06:56] <lunaphyte> again, what is the ACTUAL problem you are trying to solve?[15:07:08] <lunaphyte> yogg: not sure why you think that, but no[15:07:13] *** cemotyz09 <cemotyz09!~cemotyz09@cpe-70-121-128-59.satx.res.rr.com> has joined #postfix[15:07:14] <lunaphyte> that would not make sense[15:07:17] <yogg> I have no problem that they are different. I try to prevent scam mails[15:07:34] <lunaphyte> you do that with things like postscreen and content filters[15:10:19] *** FinboySlick <FinboySlick!~shark@74.117.40.10> has joined #postfix[15:10:24] <yogg> Ok and on postscreen I check again if the mail header "from" has the right SPF record?[15:11:01] <lunaphyte> huh?[15:11:12] <rob0> postscreen does not check mail content, it's all before DATA[15:11:14] <lunaphyte> you need to get over the from header[15:11:20] <lunaphyte> you're not going to check that against spf[15:11:22] *** Diemuzi <Diemuzi!~IceChat9@unaffiliated/diemuzi> has quit IRC (Quit: See you on the flip side!)[15:12:20] <blackflow> rob0: "14:26 < rob0> So I missed all the fun, but I suspect the underlying issue might be that your Postfix server is blocked for some reason?" scroll back way more, to the point where they want to inject a PDF into a body of a contact web form email because there is -- by their words -- no other way to send a PDF securely to the recipient of that contact form and noway to ask them for an email[15:12:23] <yogg> Ok have you a keyword for me that I can search for. Then I surely will find something to solfe my problem :)[15:12:26] <blackflow> address.[15:12:39] <rob0> Again, content filtering is the way to solve this non-problem, and in so doing, create real problems.[15:13:35] <rob0> blackflow, we got to the bottom of it: server on a dynamic IP address, for "moral reasons."[15:14:27] <blackflow> c'mon, that has nothing to do with "moral reason" :) they wanna hack web forms that don't protect against header injections, to send out malicious PDFs through, incognito.[15:14:45] <lunaphyte> yeah, that's not what's going on[15:14:52] <blackflow> totally not.[15:18:17] *** markand <markand!~markand@unaffiliated/markand> has left #postfix[15:21:09] *** olegfusion <olegfusion!~olegfusio@mail.mobileforsale.ru> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[15:21:27] *** mejo <mejo!~mejo@debian/developer/mejo> has left #postfix[15:30:10] <lunaphyte> i'm saying your assessment is mistaken.[15:30:14] <lunaphyte> but i think you knew that[15:35:26] <blackflow> I see. so you're saying it is totally legitimate to inject a PDF through webform because there's no other way to send important info to the recipient, and no way to ask them for an e-mail address because they don't publish one?[15:35:42] <lunaphyte> i also think you know full well i'm not saying that[15:37:53] <blackflow> well I'm convinced they really want to do that and use bad, inconsistent and shifting reasons to explain why they want to inject a PDF into an email through contact web forms of "businesses who don't publish email address"[15:39:18] <lunaphyte> i mostly agree[15:41:03] <lunaphyte> the only thing i disagree with there is "bad, inconsistent and shifting reasons"[15:41:19] <lunaphyte> i don't think the reasons have been inconsistent or shifting[15:48:35] *** Diemuzi <Diemuzi!~IceChat9@unaffiliated/diemuzi> has joined #postfix[15:49:44] <blackflow> well, I do. :)[15:53:21] <lunaphyte> you've haven't spent enough time here[15:53:27] <lunaphyte> it's the same song and dance every time[15:53:35] <blackflow> balance of probabilities. I do acknowledge that the alternative is the user is really.... not sure what word to use but... I'll settle for "unable" to send email due to a number of very weird, self imposed limitations based on tinfoil hattery.[15:53:35] <rob0> haha[15:53:50] *** section1 <section1!~section1@178.33.109.106> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[15:54:21] *** section1 <section1!~section1@178.33.109.106> has joined #postfix[15:54:40] <blackflow> lunaphyte: with this particular user?[15:54:52] <lunaphyte> yes[15:55:17] <rob0> well, yes. "I refuse to be forced to pay for a static IP, or for a VPS which could well be snooped by the VPS provider."[15:59:21] <blackflow> but... how did gmail and outlook even come in question? that's the inconsistency and goalposts growing legs. initial reasons where: 1) webforms plaintext bad formatting, 2) webforms used because no e-mail published in the first place, 3) can't be bothered to ask for (unpublished) address over the phone[15:59:57] <blackflow> and then it shifted into "can't send email because no encryption, so HTTPS webforms it is" and landslid into tinfoil hattery over gmail and outlook....[16:00:06] <rob0> Any major receiver blocks mail from dynamic IP space.[16:00:23] <blackflow> which is not really true.[16:00:28] <rob0> not?[16:00:46] <lunaphyte> it's not. the google and microsoft pieces fit right into the larger sentiment being expressed[16:02:35] <blackflow> why weren't they expressed initially? "I wanna (Ab)use web forms because major providers block me and I can't send mail directly".[16:02:56] <rob0> xy[16:02:56] <blackflow> why thewhole carnival ride through all the first, unrelated reasons.[16:03:02] <Ether_Man> MS blocks pretty much all the static IP spaces as well unless that IP space is quite harshly controlled.[16:03:33] <rob0> Ether_Man, but if you have a static IP and are blocked by MS, you can contact them.[16:03:48] <blackflow> rob0: so I suppose I should settle with Hanlon's razor :)[16:03:48] *** edux <edux!~edux@190.247.36.76> has joined #postfix[16:04:14] <Ether_Man> rob0, only if you control the IP that spammed, but they block the entire range if one does.[16:05:03] <blackflow> our IPs are blocked by MS twice a year, due to a subnet block. using their forms to unblock lifted that within 24 hours.[16:05:24] <rob0> Ether_Man, ^^ did you try that?[16:05:39] <blackflow> gmail however.... there's no pattern or reason to what will end up in Junk and recently I have clients complaining that gmail recipients sometimes don't get mail AT ALL, not even in Junk. dsn status=sent, I checked.[16:05:40] <Ether_Man> rob0, Yes.[16:05:57] <rob0> I know numerous people who have gotten helped by MS postmaster.[16:06:14] <rob0> No one is ever able to contact Gmail.[16:07:16] <rob0> Of course there is no point even asking, if you are on a dynamic IP address.[16:07:28] <Ether_Man> rob0, I didn't say they won't help. It's just that they won't help if you're not the one spamming and have stopped doing so. They won't help for collateral damaged IPs.[16:07:30] <blackflow> there's that community forum and some posters appear to be google employees, but from what I've seen they only direct such complaints to their policies page.[16:07:54] <blackflow> rdns, dkim, dmarc, spf, don't send spam, yadda yadda yadda, yeah all is fine but you're still tossing our mail to junk.[16:09:33] <rob0> I guess I have been lucky. Only time I had a problem was when my colo provider's rDNS was mucked up.[16:10:01] <rob0> no PTR = gmail rejects[16:10:41] <Ether_Man> rob0, then you've not had issues with getting your whole IP range blocked which is the biggest problem with sending to MS servers atm[16:11:01] <blackflow> I strongly suspect we have problems because many email sent out are in the same apparent form(at). being real estate SaaS, our clients (agencies) send to their clients (who are fully opted in and with a signed contract) e-offers that list interesting properties. the form of those mails is identical for all our clients (nobody has a custom form because $$)[16:11:54] <blackflow> I suspec the whatever gmail AI sees many emails in exact layout but different links, marks as spam.[16:12:01] <Ether_Man> Sounds to me like you are sending spam blackflow :)[16:12:26] <blackflow> isthatafact :)[16:12:36] <blackflow> the recipients have given explicit GDPR consents[16:12:45] <Ether_Man> Doesn't mean it's not spam.[16:12:59] <blackflow> it's not bacuse spam = unsolicited.[16:13:07] <blackflow> *because[16:14:08] <blackflow> you don't spam random people with offers for hundreds of thousands of euros worth of property lol. you spam them with $9.99 viagra pills.[16:15:20] <Ether_Man> I think you're operating on a different definition of unsolicited than me. Unsolicted means something not asked for. Accepting that you do something, doesn't mean it was requested, so it's still unsolicited.[16:15:26] <blackflow> jokes aside, I suspect the exactly the same HTML layout of the offer mails is flagging it.[16:17:17] <blackflow> Ether_Man: you're right. they signed a contract with teh real estate agency to find them a property they wanna buy and refuse to receive e-mail with offers for properties they're interested into.[16:17:50] <blackflow> they all expect to be handed the keys one day, no prior questions asked.[16:20:23] <blackflow> or put less sarcasm-y, they _solicited_ our clients to find them interesting properties, one or more of which they wanna buy.[16:21:12] *** yogg <yogg!d4f146ca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.241.70.202> has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed)[16:21:52] *** cemotyz09 <cemotyz09!~cemotyz09@cpe-70-121-128-59.satx.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)[16:22:03] <Ether_Man> Funny. When I last contacted a real estate agent for that service, what I solicited was actual personalized offers. Not mass mailing.[16:22:57] <blackflow> that actual personalized offers is what our clients are sending out too. not sure where you read "mass mailing" from my post :)[16:23:27] <blackflow> but those personalized offers have the same physical HTML layout, beacuse it's one SaaS and our clients didn't bother to purchase a different tempalte they're all using the same template[16:26:10] *** KlevinK <KlevinK!~KlevinK@77.242.22.154> has quit IRC (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.adiirc.com))[16:28:36] *** edux <edux!~edux@190.247.36.76> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[16:33:04] *** ]SiB[1 <]SiB[1!~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/sib/x-9459575> has joined #postfix[16:33:18] *** edux <edux!~edux@190.247.36.76> has joined #postfix[16:34:38] *** ]SiB[ <]SiB[!~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/sib/x-9459575> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)[16:34:38] *** ]SiB[1 is now known as ]SiB[[16:50:32] *** ]SiB[1 <]SiB[1!~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/sib/x-9459575> has joined #postfix[16:53:32] *** ]SiB[ <]SiB[!~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/sib/x-9459575> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)[16:53:33] *** ]SiB[1 is now known as ]SiB[[17:06:34] *** robinho86 <robinho86!~robson@177.42.49.11> has joined #postfix[17:08:29] *** n_1-c_k <n_1-c_k!~nick@2a02:8010:63a6::70> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[17:09:07] *** n_1-c_k <n_1-c_k!~nick@2a02:8010:63a6::70> has joined #postfix[17:19:38] *** kermit <kermit!~zip55413@pdpc/supporter/bronze/kermit> has quit IRC 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<IPGlider29!~IPGlider@mx-ll-171.6.132-19.dynamic.3bb.co.th> has joined #postfix[18:55:02] *** edux <edux!~edux@190.247.36.76> has joined #postfix[18:58:47] *** IPGlider29 <IPGlider29!~IPGlider@mx-ll-171.6.132-19.dynamic.3bb.co.th> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[19:01:11] *** Ether_Man_ <Ether_Man_!~ether009@c-2ffcdb54.016-680-6d6c6d5.bbcust.telenor.se> has joined #postfix[19:02:07] *** Poster|z <Poster|z!~poster@cpe-174-96-188-72.columbus.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[19:04:08] *** Ether_Man <Ether_Man!~ether009@unaffiliated/ether-man/x-1546665> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)[19:18:21] *** Poster|z <Poster|z!~poster@cpe-174-96-188-72.columbus.res.rr.com> has joined #postfix[19:19:29] *** rsx <rsx!~rsx@ppp-46-244-249-37.dynamic.mnet-online.de> has joined #postfix[19:29:14] *** olegfusion <olegfusion!~olegfusio@mail.mobileforsale.ru> has joined #postfix[19:46:39] <cpm> my post is broke[19:46:49] <rob0> fix itt[19:47:05] <rob0> fixx itt[19:51:02] <cpm> thnx[19:59:13] *** M6HZ <M6HZ!~M6HZ@mar75-4-82-230-46-11.fbx.proxad.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[20:16:40] *** hipodilski <hipodilski!~hipo@pc-freak.net> has joined #postfix[20:25:54] *** M6HZ <M6HZ!~M6HZ@mar75-4-82-230-46-11.fbx.proxad.net> has joined #postfix[20:28:50] *** NanoSector <NanoSector!~NanoSecto@simplemachines/customizer/NanoSector> has left #postfix ("Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com")[20:30:26] *** mikecmpbll <mikecmpbll!~mikecmpbl@ruby/staff/mikecmpbll> has joined #postfix[20:34:30] *** rsx <rsx!~rsx@ppp-46-244-249-37.dynamic.mnet-online.de> has quit IRC (Quit: rsx)[20:48:24] *** M6HZ <M6HZ!~M6HZ@mar75-4-82-230-46-11.fbx.proxad.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[20:50:02] *** Psi-Jack <Psi-Jack!psi-jack@unaffiliated/psi-jack> has quit IRC (Quit: Do you type on your PS1 or play on your PS1?)[20:54:16] *** mikecmpbll <mikecmpbll!~mikecmpbl@ruby/staff/mikecmpbll> has quit IRC (Quit: inabit.)[20:58:38] *** Psi-Jack <Psi-Jack!psi-jack@unaffiliated/psi-jack> has joined #postfix[21:01:02] *** section1 <section1!~section1@178.33.109.106> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[21:01:30] *** kermit <kermit!~zip55413@pdpc/supporter/bronze/kermit> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[21:02:20] *** jalalsfs_ <jalalsfs_!~jalalsfs@unaffiliated/jalalsfs> has joined #postfix[21:02:22] *** jalalsfs <jalalsfs!~jalalsfs@unaffiliated/jalalsfs> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[21:04:47] *** kermit <kermit!~zip55413@pdpc/supporter/bronze/kermit> has joined #postfix[21:06:02] *** ALowther_ <ALowther_!~quassel@108.190.224.222> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[21:09:26] <jimpop> cmp use GET instead?[21:12:30] *** olegfusion <olegfusion!~olegfusio@mail.mobileforsale.ru> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[21:14:47] *** jalalsfs_ <jalalsfs_!~jalalsfs@unaffiliated/jalalsfs> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[21:17:50] *** jalalsfs <jalalsfs!~jalalsfs@unaffiliated/jalalsfs> has joined #postfix[21:18:55] *** cpm <cpm!~cpm@pdpc/supporter/active/cpm> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[21:20:04] *** jalalsfs <jalalsfs!~jalalsfs@unaffiliated/jalalsfs> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[21:22:44] *** jalalsfs <jalalsfs!~jalalsfs@unaffiliated/jalalsfs> has joined #postfix[21:26:00] *** robinho86 <robinho86!~robson@177.42.49.11> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving.)[21:27:06] *** M6HZ <M6HZ!~M6HZ@mar75-4-82-230-46-11.fbx.proxad.net> has joined #postfix[21:41:25] <rob0> jimpop, that would have been off topic in this channel about post fixing.[21:48:51] *** jalalsfs <jalalsfs!~jalalsfs@unaffiliated/jalalsfs> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[21:51:46] *** jalalsfs <jalalsfs!~jalalsfs@unaffiliated/jalalsfs> has joined #postfix[22:16:20] *** mftech <mftech!~mftech@xd520f2c4.cust.hiper.dk> has joined #postfix[22:20:48] *** qgTG <qgTG!~qgTG@unaffiliated/qgtg> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[22:23:51] *** delacroix 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