December 6, 2017 
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December 6, 2017 [00:10:21] *** yishan <yishan!~yishan@unaffiliated/yishan> has left #postfix ("Leaving")[00:15:06] *** gu1lle_ <gu1lle_!~Thunderbi@181.167.195.114> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[00:16:19] *** jucaroba <jucaroba!~quassel@static-153-155-225-77.ipcom.comunitel.net> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[00:17:39] *** jucaroba <jucaroba!~quassel@static-153-155-225-77.ipcom.comunitel.net> has joined #postfix[00:18:15] *** TAARs <TAARs!~user@unaffiliated/taars> has quit IRC (Quit: Quit)[00:19:21] *** troys is now known as troys_[00:23:42] *** TAARs <TAARs!~user@unaffiliated/taars> has joined #postfix[00:29:58] *** troys_ is now known as troys[00:30:53] <thumbs> willmedeiros: heh[00:32:45] *** ariscop <ariscop!~Phase4@icookc.lnk.telstra.net> has joined #postfix[00:33:03] *** Quick_Wango <Quick_Wango!~quickwang@cubyte.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Bye! - http://cubeisland.de)[00:34:12] *** dvl <dvl!~dvl@freebsd/developer/dvl> has quit IRC (Max SendQ 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ZZZzzz…)[04:59:04] *** dan_j <dan_j!sid21651@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-axzurmuxibdfpzom> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[04:59:11] *** Jikan <Jikan!~Jikan@2001:41d0:8:7844::8> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[05:00:19] *** sysmonk <sysmonk!alex@193.219.128.48> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[05:00:26] *** sysmonk_ <sysmonk_!alex@193.219.128.48> has joined #postfix[05:00:38] *** Jikan <Jikan!~Jikan@2001:41d0:8:7844::8> has joined #postfix[05:12:03] *** hipodils1i <hipodils1i!~hipo@pc-freak.net> has joined #postfix[05:12:26] *** CustosLimen <CustosLimen!~CustosLim@unaffiliated/cust0slim3n> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[05:12:26] *** hipodilski <hipodilski!~hipo@pc-freak.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[05:15:34] *** CustosLimen <CustosLimen!~CustosLim@unaffiliated/cust0slim3n> has joined #postfix[05:25:56] *** DTZUZO <DTZUZO!~DTZUZO@S0106bcd16584b0aa.vs.shawcable.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[05:42:12] *** eelstrebor <eelstrebor!~eelstrebo@216-75-116-100.res.dyn.allophone.biz> has quit IRC (Quit: Ex-Chat)[05:46:22] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-105-188.socal.res.rr.com> has joined #postfix[05:50:43] *** jrj <jrj!~jrj@r.irk.bebifood.ru> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[05:54:54] *** cemotyz09 <cemotyz09!~cemotyz09@cpe-70-121-157-202.satx.res.rr.com> has joined #postfix[05:56:41] *** cemotyz09 <cemotyz09!~cemotyz09@cpe-70-121-157-202.satx.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[05:56:53] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-105-188.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[06:00:30] *** LeLutin <LeLutin!~lelutin@unaffiliated/lelutin> has joined #postfix[06:01:46] <LeLutin> I'm wondering how to configure postfix to deliberately slow down delivery to a certain domain. hotmail/outlook/live has decided to wipe out our volume rep after too many incidents of spam sent and now we need to slowly ramp up again[06:03:12] <LeLutin> for now we've setup a transport for the appropriate domains and configured that transport to have a low initial_destination_concurrency, destination_recipient_limit, destination_concurrency_limit and destination_rate_delay but I'm wondering if even with this we can end up bothering their servers too much[06:03:37] *** DTZUZO <DTZUZO!~DTZUZO@S0106bcd16584b0aa.vs.shawcable.net> has joined #postfix[06:03:58] <rob0> FWIW I would recommend talking to them ... you'll probably get a human response in a reasonable amount of time. Tell them you have gotten the spam problem under control ( you DO, right?)[06:05:58] <LeLutin> rob0: yes we do. we've contacted them multiple times with the unlist form but every time their response smells like a drone just closing as fast as possile[06:06:29] <LeLutin> we even got someone over the phone at some point. they were helpful but our server got blocked again two days later[06:07:56] <rob0> what was the nature of the problem?[06:08:29] <rob0> my recent experiences (mostly indirect) with Microsoft postmaster have been very positive[06:08:47] <rob0> almost as if they really want to help ;)[06:14:44] <LeLutin> it's always hard to tell the nature of the problem with hotmail. their error codes don't mean what the code is supposed to mean.. I believe we've had too much issues in the past with spam and other triggers that marked our server in an internal blacklist on their side[06:15:10] <LeLutin> they've had "with our server" I mean[06:18:30] *** MACscr <MACscr!~MACscr@c-73-9-230-5.hsd1.il.comcast.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)[06:19:29] *** pj <pj!~pj@centos/ops/pj> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[06:23:21] *** pj <pj!~pj@centos/ops/pj> has joined #postfix[06:38:24] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-105-188.socal.res.rr.com> has joined #postfix[06:46:21] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-105-188.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[06:50:26] *** led_ir22 <led_ir22!~Thunderbi@hotspot10.rywasoft.net> has quit IRC (Quit: led_ir22)[06:56:52] *** led_ir22 <led_ir22!~Thunderbi@hotspot10.rywasoft.net> has joined #postfix[06:57:51] *** dan_j <dan_j!sid21651@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-cyskwvqyjzcqolni> has joined #postfix[07:14:07] *** troys_ is now known as troys[07:23:38] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-105-188.socal.res.rr.com> has joined #postfix[07:28:14] *** aindilis <aindilis!~aindilis@172-12-3-117.lightspeed.sgnwmi.sbcglobal.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[07:34:07] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-105-188.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[07:40:45] *** maslen1 <maslen1!~maslen@unaffiliated/maslen> has joined #postfix[07:43:28] *** maslen <maslen!~maslen@unaffiliated/maslen> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[07:44:44] *** troys is now known as troys_[07:46:28] *** ogny <ogny!~orkun@85.97.122.232> has joined #postfix[07:46:28] *** ogny <ogny!~orkun@85.97.122.232> has quit IRC (Changing host)[07:46:28] *** ogny <ogny!~orkun@unaffiliated/ogny> has joined #postfix[07:57:50] *** ariscop <ariscop!~Phase4@icookc.lnk.telstra.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Leaving)[08:06:51] *** troys_ is now known as troys[08:23:58] *** aindilis <aindilis!~aindilis@172-12-3-117.lightspeed.sgnwmi.sbcglobal.net> has joined #postfix[08:32:20] *** MACscr <MACscr!~MACscr@c-73-9-230-5.hsd1.il.comcast.net> has joined #postfix[08:35:31] *** troys <troys!~troys@23-24-139-177-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net> has quit IRC (Quit: Bye)[08:37:58] *** level7_ <level7_!~quassel@31.44.17.250> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[08:40:00] *** level7 <level7!~quassel@31.44.17.250> has joined #postfix[08:45:06] *** masuberu <masuberu!~Masber@27-32-116-21.static.tpgi.com.au> has joined #postfix[08:48:35] *** stenrose <stenrose!~stenrose@martin.ilait.se> has joined #postfix[08:59:29] *** ariscop <ariscop!~Phase4@58.106.177.140> has joined #postfix[09:09:31] *** Madda <Madda!~Madda@2-228-92-98.ip190.fastwebnet.it> has joined #postfix[09:14:19] *** Madda <Madda!~Madda@2-228-92-98.ip190.fastwebnet.it> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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I'm getting confused. I got a mail accepted (after greylisting) with Dec 6 09:12:36 verdi postfix/smtpd[3478]: 51462A1038: client=unknown[216.231.136.31][11:30:18] <orzel> though my smtpd_recipient_restrictions looks like https://pastebin.com/ar0G4HZC[11:30:30] <orzel> shouldn't reject_unknown_reverse_client_hostname have it rejected ?[11:31:39] *** infernix <infernix!nix@unaffiliated/infernix> has joined #postfix[11:32:21] <orzel> I got other example where it seems to work though : Dec 6 10:03:02 verdi postfix/smtpd[17013]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from unknown[180.123.149.120]: 450 4.7.1 Client host rejected: cannot find your reverse hostname, [180.123.149.120]; from=<> to=<xxx> proto=ESMTP helo=<vps6075.com>[11:32:54] <orzel> recipient/client access files don't match, i've checked[11:33:18] <survietamine> 216.231.136.31 has a PTR: edc21.global10media.com.[11:35:08] <orzel> mm, yes, indeed. but then why postfix displayed "unknown" ?[11:37:00] <RadoQ> pj, great, thanks for info & idea.[11:39:53] *** johney <johney!29e203d6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.41.226.3.214> has joined #postfix[11:51:53] *** [sarri] <[sarri]!~sari@p50995cae.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[11:52:17] *** led_ir22 <led_ir22!~Thunderbi@hotspot10.rywasoft.net> has quit IRC (Quit: led_ir22)[11:56:26] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-105-188.socal.res.rr.com> has joined #postfix[11:57:35] *** sarri <sarri!~sari@p50995cae.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has joined #postfix[11:57:35] *** sarri <sarri!~sari@p50995cae.dip0.t-ipconnect.de> has quit IRC (Changing host)[11:57:35] *** sarri <sarri!~sari@unaffiliated/sarri> has joined #postfix[12:03:24] *** willmedeiros <willmedeiros!9fdc3a06@gateway/web/freenode/ip.159.220.58.6> has quit IRC (Quit: Page closed)[12:05:00] *** SpydarOO7 <SpydarOO7!~spydar007@unaffiliated/spydar007> has joined #postfix[12:06:39] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-105-188.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[12:07:27] *** johney <johney!29e203d6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.41.226.3.214> has left #postfix[12:33:18] *** Gaaab <Gaaab!~Gaaab@host187-144-dynamic.33-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it> has joined #postfix[12:38:09] *** Gaaab <Gaaab!~Gaaab@host187-144-dynamic.33-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[12:42:53] *** morse <morse!~morse@193.205.128.40> has joined #postfix[12:44:33] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-105-188.socal.res.rr.com> has joined #postfix[12:44:35] *** gavimobile <gavimobile!~GavrielC@199.203.211.196> has quit IRC (Read error: No route to host)[12:44:49] *** gavimobile <gavimobile!~GavrielC@199.203.211.196> has joined #postfix[12:49:58] *** Gaaab <Gaaab!~Gaaab@kite.riseup.net> has joined #postfix[12:56:17] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-105-188.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[13:03:30] *** pti-jean_ <pti-jean_!~quassel@79.38.124.78.rev.sfr.net> has joined #postfix[13:12:34] *** honestly <honestly!~luke@unaffiliated/luketheduke> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[13:13:24] *** DTZUZO <DTZUZO!~DTZUZO@S0106bcd16584b0aa.vs.shawcable.net> has joined #postfix[13:20:26] *** albech <albech!~Thunderbi@5.103.131.12> has joined #postfix[13:20:55] *** robinho86 <robinho86!~robsonjf@201.22.86.124.static.gvt.net.br> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[13:22:57] *** section1 <section1!~section1@190.194.68.34> has joined #postfix[13:23:24] *** robinho86 <robinho86!~robsonjf@201.22.86.124.static.gvt.net.br> has joined #postfix[13:27:09] *** Madda <Madda!~Madda@2-228-92-98.ip190.fastwebnet.it> has quit IRC (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)[13:27:39] *** honestly <honestly!~luke@unaffiliated/luketheduke> has joined #postfix[13:35:23] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-105-188.socal.res.rr.com> has joined #postfix[13:46:55] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-105-188.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[13:54:53] <petn-randall> Is there a way to verify postfix config via CLI? I'm asking because I want to implement a check for deploying config changes with ansible.[13:55:30] <petn-randall> I've been looking through the postconf man page, assuming this would be the best candidate, but I didn't find such an option yet.[14:02:03] *** KaiForce <KaiForce!~chatzilla@99.133.184.129> has joined #postfix[14:06:55] *** gavimobile1 <gavimobile1!~GavrielC@199.203.211.196> has joined #postfix[14:06:56] *** section1 <section1!~section1@190.194.68.34> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[14:07:02] *** section1_ <section1_!~section1@190.194.68.34> has joined #postfix[14:08:47] *** gavimobile <gavimobile!~GavrielC@199.203.211.196> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)[14:14:34] *** TheFatherMind- <TheFatherMind-!~TheFather@cpe-104-34-204-52.socal.res.rr.com> has joined #postfix[14:16:11] *** TheFatherMind <TheFatherMind!~TheFather@cpe-104-34-204-52.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[14:18:00] *** synthroid <synthroid!~synthroid@50.202.5.122> has joined #postfix[14:22:06] <lunaphyte> petn-randall: the closest you may get might be parsing the output of postconf -n[14:23:23] <lunaphyte> there is also the postfix check command, but this is probably not quite what you're after[14:26:46] *** section1_ <section1_!~section1@190.194.68.34> has left #postfix[14:27:49] *** Section1 <Section1!~section1@190.194.68.34> has joined #postfix[14:38:03] <petn-randall> lunaphyte: I also found that, but that'll only "work" if both main.cf and master.cf are present in the same dir.[14:38:47] <lunaphyte> it would be pretty interesting to hear of a legitimate reason they would not be[14:41:06] <petn-randall> lunaphyte: ansible copies template files one after another to a tmpdir before running the validate command which takes the full file path as a placeholder. When the validation succeeds, it gets copied to the defined place. This means that only one template file is present at the tmpdir at a time.[14:41:50] <lunaphyte> i'm sure there is a way to tell ansible to do the validation correctly[14:43:03] <petn-randall> I guess postconf -n would do it for me. It returns 0 usually and 1 on syntax errors.[14:43:25] <petn-randall> I'm not sure if it does more validation than "postfix check" does.[14:43:39] <lunaphyte> they do different things[14:43:48] <lunaphyte> postconf will be closer to true linting[14:44:40] *** Wulf <Wulf!~Wulf@unaffiliated/wulf> has joined #postfix[14:44:44] <Wulf> Good Morning.[14:45:02] <petn-randall> I'd like to catch typos before deployment, anything further is of course nice to have.[14:45:38] <lunaphyte> does -n currently do that? i didn't think so[14:45:59] <lunaphyte> it's also impossible to catch all typos.[14:46:17] <lunaphyte> for example, postfix could never know if you mistyped a domain name in something like relay_domains[14:47:11] <petn-randall> lunaphyte: Sure, it's not meant to be bulletproof. But I'd like to catch as many machine-findable bugs without spending to much time on it.[14:47:30] <petn-randall> lunaphyte: It does give some output: postconf: warning: /tmp//main.cf: unused parameter: asdfasdf=asdfasdf[14:47:35] <lunaphyte> right[14:47:50] <petn-randall> lunaphyte: Also a simple "asdf" will throw a syntax error due to no value assigned to it.[14:48:16] <petn-randall> I'm just trying to raise the bar for deploying changes. :)[14:48:26] <lunaphyte> yes, it will help, but not a lot[14:48:31] <lunaphyte> it doesn't validate file names, etc[14:48:40] <petn-randall> Does postfix check do that?[14:48:52] <lunaphyte> i don't think so[14:49:04] <lunaphyte> you could always ask about such a feature on the ml[14:49:38] <petn-randall> Other option would be to just deploy the config files, and fail if 'postfix check' is unhappy. It would prevent restarting postfix, even though the wrong config got deployed.[14:49:59] <petn-randall> Not quite as elegant, but at least gives the operator a heads-up that they need to fix some things.[14:52:36] <Wulf> I'm considering moving my MTA to postfix. I've got about 5 domains and I want to have catch-all addresses, i.e. * at mydomain dot tld should work. But for each RCPT TO:<…> I want to validate the address with a program I'll write myself. How do I configure postfix to call my code on RCPT TO?[14:56:44] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-105-188.socal.res.rr.com> has joined #postfix[14:57:49] *** Section1 <Section1!~section1@190.194.68.34> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[14:57:50] *** section1_ <section1_!~section1@190.194.68.34> has joined #postfix[14:59:12] *** eelstrebor <eelstrebor!~eelstrebo@216-75-116-100.res.dyn.allophone.biz> has joined #postfix[15:01:15] <rudi_s> Wulf: man socketmap_table and use a unix socket with proper permissions.[15:04:49] <rudi_s> Then use that table in smtpd_recipient_restrictions with check_recipient_access socketmap:unix:/path/to/socket[15:05:43] <Wulf> rudi_s: thanks, I think this will keep me busy for a while[15:06:51] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-105-188.socal.res.rr.com> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[15:07:50] <lunaphyte> !tell Wulf catchall[15:07:51] <knoba> Wulf: "catchall" : Sending all emails for non-existing users in domain to a special account. See man 5 virtual for the @domain syntax, which applies in virtual_*_maps and relay_recipient_maps. For local(8) delivery, unset local_recipient_maps and see luser_relay. WARNING: catchalls are rarely a good idea. Spammers will abuse them.[15:08:02] <lunaphyte> please heed the WARNING[15:08:14] <lunaphyte> why do you think you need a catch all? this is a bad idea[15:09:26] <dl8bh> lunaphyte: i for myself use a catch-all domain for per-service-addresses to figure out, where all the spam comes from[15:10:08] <lunaphyte> that has never required a catchall[15:10:37] <Wulf> lunaphyte: catch all worked great for many years, until couple of years ago until spammers tried random addresses. I know the problem. At the moment I maintain a huge whitelist instead. I want to have catch-all again, but with a filter that uses cryptography to whitelist addresses.[15:10:39] <dl8bh> no, but its really convenient not having to create an alias before[15:11:24] <lunaphyte> dl8bh: creating aliases has never been required for that either[15:11:41] <dl8bh> lunaphyte: whats the correct term for what I am doing?[15:12:20] <dl8bh> or what should I do instead of catch-all on one specific domain?[15:12:27] <lunaphyte> are you asking what is ...[15:12:29] <lunaphyte> ah[15:12:41] <lunaphyte> !tell dl8bh recipient_delimiter[15:12:41] <knoba> dl8bh: "recipient_delimiter" : a configuration parameter in the main.cf: The separator between user names and address extensions (user+foo). See canonical(5), local(8), relocated(5) and virtual(5) for the effects this has on aliases, canonical, virtual, relocated and on .forward file lookups. Basically, the software tries user+foo and .forward+foo before trying user and .forward.[15:13:01] *** section1_ <section1_!~section1@190.194.68.34> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[15:13:06] <dl8bh> lunaphyte: yes, I also use recipient_delimiters[15:13:21] <dl8bh> lunaphyte: but + is forbidden in many cases[15:13:26] <dl8bh> in email-addresses[15:13:33] <lunaphyte> yes, + is a bad choice for a recipient delimiter[15:13:43] <dl8bh> what would be a better choice?[15:13:47] *** section1_ <section1_!~section1@190.194.68.34> has joined #postfix[15:14:42] <dl8bh> hrm, will have to have a look on the existing "normal" addresses, if they contain any - and if its safe for me to switch the delimiter[15:16:36] <lunaphyte> . would also be better[15:18:07] <dl8bh> name.surname at domain dot tld is a common mailaddress scheme over here. choosing . would break things[15:18:45] <lunaphyte> i meant that . is better than +.[15:18:53] <dl8bh> for some usecases[15:18:58] *** dakar is now known as mantra[15:19:06] *** section1_ <section1_!~section1@190.194.68.34> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[15:19:25] <lunaphyte> the use case we were talking about was "but + is forbidden in many cases"[15:20:34] <rob0> since 2.11 multiple delimiters are allowed[15:20:45] <dl8bh> the use case of an recipient_delimiter to replace catchall/aliases is, to have different mailaddresses for different senders without breaking things in my current setup[15:21:16] <rob0> the first delimiter character encountered from left to right is the one used for any given address localpart[15:21:59] <lunaphyte> dl8bh: that use case is implicit[15:22:30] <jduggan> if i set a transport with check_recipient_mx_access and i also have transport_maps, which one "wins" am I an ass to assume the check_recipient_mx_access wins ?[15:22:31] <rob0> Wulf, the standard way or preventing catchall abuse is to give Postfix access to the data, to do its own address validation.[15:22:35] <dl8bh> yes, and some other delimiters than + may break things in my setup[15:22:42] <Wulf> rob0: what data?[15:23:02] <rob0> !tell wulf address_classes[15:23:02] <knoba> wulf: "address_classes" : http://www.postfix.org/ADDRESS_CLASS_README.html describes how Postfix deals with different classes of addresses: local, relay, virtual alias, virtual mailbox, and Internet.[15:23:09] <rob0> the list of valid recipients[15:23:13] <petn-randall> Hi, I'm currently switching from mailbox_command to virtual_transport for local delivery on a test system. For some reason recipient_delimiter stopped working, i.e. mails to user+foo at example dot com get bounced with "503 5.1.1 User does not exist (in reply to RCPT TO command))". Mails to user at example dot com go through fine. So digging further, I think propagate_unmatched_extensions has to be unset for virtu[15:23:18] <Wulf> rob0: it would be infinite in my scheme[15:23:19] <petn-randall> al. However, the problem persists. ...[15:23:21] <petn-randall> ... logs and config: http://paste.debian.net/999448/[15:23:51] <rob0> infinite means catchall abuse[15:24:06] <Wulf> rob0: nope :-)[15:24:41] <petn-randall> Any pointer are appreciated.[15:25:06] <Wulf> rob0: hmac('rob0 at mydomain dot tld', 'mysecret') --> base32 --> trunate to 8 chars --> t7c4qlr5-rob0 at mydomain dot tld[15:25:46] <Wulf> rob0: only one in 2^40 addresses would be valid. That's still infinite.[15:29:08] *** equilibriumuk <equilibriumuk!~equilibri@2602:ffda:aaa::2194:1ef2> has quit IRC (Quit: bouncer bouncing)[15:31:35] <lunaphyte> "a filter that uses cryptography to whitelist addresses"[15:31:44] <lunaphyte> what does that *actually* mean?[15:33:15] *** Madda <Madda!~Madda@host235-160-dynamic.248-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it> has joined #postfix[15:33:24] <Wulf> lunaphyte: it means my filter receives an address like "t7c4qlr5-rob0 at mydomain dot tld", splits it up ("t7c4qlr5", "rob0 at mydomain dot tld"), puts the latter through hmac+base32 and compares to the former.[15:34:18] <petn-randall> Wulf: I've been thinking about that for a while, can you show your implementation details?[15:34:23] <Wulf> I would still have a static blacklist for those (otherwise valid) mail addresses where I receive spam, and a static whitelist for legacy addresses.[15:34:42] <Wulf> petn-randall: I can, when I'm done implementing it.[15:34:50] <Wulf> petn-randall: So far I've written 0 lines of code.[15:35:17] <petn-randall> haha[15:35:37] <Wulf> And I'm thinking about writing a mobile phone app which knows my hmac key. I'd enter a prefix, select a domain and press "generate" and it shows the full mail address.[15:36:39] *** Dolanyeah110 <Dolanyeah110!~dolanyeah@202.57.8.13> has quit IRC (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de)[15:37:27] *** DTZUZO <DTZUZO!~DTZUZO@S0106bcd16584b0aa.vs.shawcable.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[15:39:39] *** DTZUZO <DTZUZO!~DTZUZO@S0106bcd16584b0aa.vs.shawcable.net> has joined #postfix[15:40:29] <rob0> so in effect, you are using a localpart( prefix, delimiter, username ) the same way Postfix uses a localpart( username, delimiter, suffix )[15:40:52] <rob0> seems like a lot of extra effort to get the same result[15:41:29] <Wulf> rob0: I'm not familiar with postfix, I have no idea what this "localpart..." means[15:41:41] <lunaphyte> localpart is not a postfix concept :)[15:41:57] <lunaphyte> it's a basic concept of email in general[15:42:00] <rob0> "localpart" is an email term introduced in RFC 821 et seq.[15:42:10] <petn-randall> rob0: No, there is also some validation that the suffix matches to the username, too. That's the whole idea.[15:42:22] <rob0> It means everything to the left of the @, after which is the domain part[15:42:35] <Wulf> so "<local-part>" is the stuff before @.[15:42:52] <Wulf> Then "prefix, delimiter, username" is new to me. Is that a postfix concept?[15:43:15] <rob0> those are words[15:44:16] <rob0> recipient_delimiter is a Postfix setting, but the concept preceded Postfix, in both Sendmail and qmail[15:55:28] *** equilibriumuk <equilibriumuk!~equilibri@2602:ffda:aaa::2194:1ef2> has joined #postfix[15:58:40] *** Columbo0815 <Columbo0815!~foobar@HSI-KBW-149-172-2-93.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de> has joined #postfix[15:59:48] <lunaphyte> trying to solve "problems", before understanding the basics, is not a very good idea[16:07:47] <rob0> BTW those web sites which say + is not valid in email addresses are all broken and wrong. Absolutely any printable ASCII character (decimal 32 to 127, hex 0x20 to 0x8F) is explicitly allowed.[16:08:29] <rob0> My favorite obnoxious example is <"Eat @ Joe's" at example dot com>[16:09:19] <rob0> I should make that worse by using double quotes inside the double quotes :)[16:11:26] <petn-randall> Any hints regarding my recipient delimiter problem further up?[16:11:57] <petn-randall> It might be truncated, but AFAICS the message got split by my IRC client properly.[16:12:13] *** ogny <ogny!~orkun@unaffiliated/ogny> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 268 seconds)[16:12:38] <rob0> it was truncated, but anyway, I guess the problem is in whatever you're using as a virtual_transport[16:13:26] <petn-randall> logs and config: http://paste.debian.net/999448/[16:13:36] <rob0> also note that v_t and mailbox_command are NOT interchangeable. The latter is for local(8) delivery only. The former is for virtual(8).[16:13:56] <petn-randall> Indeed, which is why I changed a few more things to make ends meet.[16:14:50] <petn-randall> I'd like postfix to translate the recipient from user+foo@ to user@ /before/ passing it to virtual.[16:15:19] <petn-randall> Because the other endpoint doesn't know about postfix's recipient delimiter.[16:16:07] <rob0> your log lines are also truncated, the interesting part would have been the reply received by postfix/lmtp[16:17:04] <rob0> again, what IS the v_t? Dovecot LMTP or something else?[16:17:09] *** Madda <Madda!~Madda@host235-160-dynamic.248-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[16:17:36] <rob0> you can enable a delimiter in Dovecot LMTP[16:17:40] <petn-randall> kopano[16:17:51] <rob0> ah, no idea, there[16:19:55] <petn-randall> That is all that's in /var/log/maillog. I get a bounce with "<user+foo at example dot com>: host 127.0.0.1[127.0.0.1] said: 503 5.1.1 User does not exist (in reply to RCPT TO command)".[16:20:18] *** Madda <Madda!~Madda@host235-160-dynamic.248-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it> has joined #postfix[16:20:55] <rob0> you read all of postconf.5.html#propagate_unmatched_extensions I guess[16:21:23] <rob0> and having that unset should strip the delimiter & extension?[16:22:01] <petn-randall> Yes, I unset it with "propagate_unmatched_extensions =", it's in the paste.[16:22:10] <petn-randall> Is that the correct syntax?[16:22:13] *** Columbo0815 <Columbo0815!~foobar@HSI-KBW-149-172-2-93.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Verlassend)[16:22:59] <rob0> that's unset, yes[16:23:16] *** Columbo0815 <Columbo0815!~foobar@HSI-KBW-149-172-2-93.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de> has joined #postfix[16:23:46] <rob0> !enable_long_queue_ids[16:23:46] <knoba> rob0: "enable_long_queue_ids" : Enable long, non-repeating, queue IDs (queue file names). The benefit of non-repeating names is simpler logfile analysis and easier queue migration (there is no need to run postsuper to change queue file names that don't match their message file inode number). See http://www.postfix.org/postconf.5.html#enable_long_queue_ids[16:24:22] <petn-randall> Then I don't understand why postfix still appends the extension again.[16:24:30] <rob0> enable_long_queue_ids=yes ... Only reason that's not default is for backward compatibility that no one is likely to need at this point[16:24:44] <petn-randall> I'll enable it with the next config update, thanks.[16:26:57] <rob0> you could try adding -v to lmtp in master.cf[16:27:09] <rob0> then send a test and disable that again[16:27:30] <petn-randall> It's currently on a test system, so I can hack away to heart's content.[16:27:32] <rob0> it will show you the entire LMTP dialogue[16:33:21] <petn-randall> rob0: http://paste.debian.net/999471/[16:34:47] <petn-randall> Seems as though postfix still sets the recipient to user+foo at example dot com despite propagate_unmatched_extensions being unset.[16:36:02] <petn-randall> It's postfix 2.10.1, shipped with CentOS 7. Am I missing something? Or is this maybe a bug in that version?[16:40:31] *** Gaaab <Gaaab!~Gaaab@kite.riseup.net> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[16:41:06] <rob0> I asked earlier if you had read all of postconf.5.html#propagate_unmatched_extensions ... did you? It talks about lookup tables, not lmtp(8)[16:41:19] <rob0> you misunderstood what it does[16:41:28] <petn-randall> Ok, I might need to re-read.[16:41:47] <rob0> You're going to have to do a virtual(5) alias mapping to strip the +foo[16:43:39] *** Madda <Madda!~Madda@host235-160-dynamic.248-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it> has quit IRC (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)[16:44:12] *** Gaaab <Gaaab!~Gaaab@host187-144-dynamic.33-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it> has joined #postfix[16:44:26] <rob0> a pretty simple pcre or regexp, /(.*)\+.* at (example\ dot com)$/ $1@$2[16:45:00] <rob0> see pcre_table(5) manual[16:46:02] <petn-randall> Or a " at example dot com @examplecom" in /etc/postfix/virtual should do it?[16:46:13] <petn-randall> " at example dot com @example.com" that is[16:47:10] *** Madda <Madda!~Madda@host235-160-dynamic.248-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it> has joined #postfix[16:47:18] <rob0> why?[16:48:11] <rob0> oh, maybe[16:48:45] <rob0> that might break recipient validation[16:50:37] *** Gaaab <Gaaab!~Gaaab@host187-144-dynamic.33-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)[16:52:20] <petn-randall> Hmmm, indeed. So the easiest way is a regex, I guess.[16:54:42] <rob0> btw there is nothing magical about the file, /etc/postfix/virtual ... you can set virtual_alias_maps to any maptype:filename[16:56:34] <petn-randall> Yes, it just happens to be already an existing file.[16:57:12] <rob0> (and v_a_m default is unset)[16:57:44] *** jucaroba <jucaroba!~quassel@static-153-155-225-77.ipcom.comunitel.net> has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)[16:58:14] <petn-randall> Ah, found an easier solution.[16:58:14] <rob0> So you're probably going to want to set that pcre: one after the hash:/etc/postfix/virtual[16:59:01] <petn-randall> Just added the lookup from virtual_mailbox_maps also to v_a_m.[16:59:08] *** jucaroba <jucaroba!~quassel@static-153-155-225-77.ipcom.comunitel.net> has joined #postfix[16:59:37] <petn-randall> AFAICS this should change anything, since it just looks up a single mail address in ldap, meaning that it can't expand to anything that wasn't there before.[16:59:59] <petn-randall> *shouldn't[17:02:44] <rob0> with LDAP you might try result_format[17:02:59] *** troys <troys!~troys@23-24-139-177-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net> has joined #postfix[17:04:00] *** fatdragon <fatdragon!~fatdragon@cpe-107-184-105-188.socal.res.rr.com> has joined #postfix[17:22:11] *** Columbo0815 <Columbo0815!~foobar@HSI-KBW-149-172-2-93.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Verlassend)[17:23:23] *** masuberu <masuberu!~Masber@27-32-116-21.static.tpgi.com.au> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)[17:31:35] *** Gaaab <Gaaab!~Gaaab@host187-144-dynamic.33-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it> has joined #postfix[17:32:59] *** maslen <maslen!~maslen@unaffiliated/maslen> has joined #postfix[17:33:19] *** troys is now known as troys_[17:35:01] *** maslen1 <maslen1!~maslen@unaffiliated/maslen> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[17:36:59] *** Teraii <Teraii!~Teraii@2001:470:caaf:1::93> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[17:37:21] *** Gaaab 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<Darcidride_!~Darcidrid@2a01:e35:8b4a:ca10:c74:af6a:ef72:f0b1> has joined #postfix[18:44:38] *** mikecmpbll <mikecmpbll!~mikecmpbl@ruby/staff/mikecmpbll> has joined #postfix[18:49:45] *** impy <impy!~textual@ptr-g1zxlv3y2pfwuw739ys.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has joined #postfix[18:50:17] *** impy <impy!~textual@ptr-g1zxlv3y2pfwuw739ys.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has quit IRC (Client Quit)[18:58:03] *** impy <impy!~textual@ptr-g1zxlv48r9kret98hs3.18120a2.ip6.access.telenet.be> has joined #postfix[19:09:35] *** tuxick <tuxick!~bluesmurf@pie.xs4all.nl> has quit IRC (Quit: krw)[19:18:47] *** troys_ is now known as troys[19:19:06] *** quan <quan!~quassel@50.35.109.212> has joined #postfix[19:21:34] *** gu1lle_ <gu1lle_!~Thunderbi@181.167.195.114> has joined #postfix[19:26:35] *** Columbo0815 <Columbo0815!~foobar@HSI-KBW-149-172-2-93.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de> has joined #postfix[19:29:10] *** dka <dka!~code-is-a@master-sbg-01.kopaxgroup.com> has joined #postfix[19:29:12] <dka> Hi[19:29:18] <dka> Why do people usr mailchimp?[19:34:30] <rob0> it's a cost effective way of getting bulk mail to customers, without all the hassles that go with sending bulk mail[19:52:13] *** tuxick <tuxick!~bluesmurf@pie.xs4all.nl> has joined #postfix[19:54:12] <dka> rob0, but you need to pay to get the ads remove. writing your own isn't that long and is more cost effective long term[19:55:14] <dka> I am thinking of doing my own mailchimp so it can be more flexible. I can't determine how big will be the deference if we do not compare the functionalities[19:55:18] <patdk-lap> heh?[19:55:21] <dka> what kind of thing mailchimp know i don't?[19:55:36] <patdk-lap> a lot[19:55:37] <dka> do they have a special algorithm not to get banned?[19:56:14] <patdk-lap> yes[19:56:17] <rob0> they have RELATIONSHIPS[19:56:24] <patdk-lap> you don't?[19:56:32] <JPT> Mailchimp can do what you will need at least 3-5 full time employees to do[19:57:10] <JPT> They check and care about their whole infrastructure on a daily basis[19:57:16] <patdk-lap> it has taken a lot of time to solidify my mail stack[19:57:20] <patdk-lap> and i don't even do much mail[19:57:32] <rob0> and they respond quickly to any abuse reports[19:57:36] <JPT> They make sure that they - under no circumstances - send spam and get blacklisted on the way[19:57:58] <rob0> oh they DO send some spam, but they act on it[19:58:16] <JPT> Yeah, like that. They are way better at reacting than i am.[19:58:49] <dka> should my organization use mail chimp ?[19:59:02] <patdk-lap> dunno[19:59:09] <rob0> uh, we can't say, but I'd definitely look into it[19:59:10] <patdk-lap> do you want your mass emails to just work, sure[19:59:32] <patdk-lap> if you want to mess around with it youself, and are ok with handling large dumps of emails going missing, sure, do it yourself[19:59:40] <JPT> If you process and send personal data - be sure that your policies and users are fine with putting them through a 3rd party service[19:59:41] <dka> My organization is a dns provider[19:59:44] <tuxick> there's hardly ever a good excuse for mass emails[19:59:50] <dka> The email sent should be confidential[19:59:55] <patdk-lap> tuxick, mailing lists[19:59:57] <rob0> if you start small with the bulk mailing and keep clean practices and lists, you might be able to do it on your own[20:00:02] <dka> I wonder if doing our own system is more professional[20:00:04] <tuxick> patdk-lap: that's different :)[20:00:08] <patdk-lap> no it's not[20:00:11] <patdk-lap> it's mass email[20:00:29] <patdk-lap> ube though, is different[20:01:04] *** ogny <ogny!~orkun@pool-173-59-20-115.phlapa.fios.verizon.net> has joined #postfix[20:01:04] *** ogny <ogny!~orkun@pool-173-59-20-115.phlapa.fios.verizon.net> has quit IRC (Changing host)[20:01:05] *** ogny <ogny!~orkun@unaffiliated/ogny> has joined #postfix[20:01:08] <rob0> ("clean" was to apply both to practices and to lists, btw)[20:01:39] *** Darcidride <Darcidride!~Darcidrid@194.2.202.93> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[20:01:55] <dka> so yeah[20:01:57] <dka> i still don't know[20:02:15] <dka> do i make my own mail campaign system or do I use mailchimp?[20:02:21] <dka> :o[20:02:33] <rob0> what is the goal of the campaign?[20:02:33] <dka> I need more people opinion i'll just wait[20:02:34] <patdk-lap> how can anyone answer that?[20:03:25] *** gu1lle_ <gu1lle_!~Thunderbi@181.167.195.114> has quit IRC (Quit: gu1lle_)[20:06:01] <JPT> Maybe the question should be "Is your campaign sending emails that you would like to see in your inbox on a weekly basis?" :)[20:06:39] <thumbs> I tried to ask rob0 to stop emailing me about his cats, but he won't![20:07:57] <JPT> Maybe you need to subscribe to the premium program :D[20:09:01] <thumbs> JPT: I think that'll make matters worse.[20:09:21] <JPT> But instead of emails you get weekly parcels delivered to your home[20:10:05] <tuxick> weeklysanta.com[20:10:14] *** dka <dka!~code-is-a@master-sbg-01.kopaxgroup.com> has left #postfix ("Leaving")[20:10:15] <rob0> thumbs, click my unsub link[20:10:29] *** troys is now known as troys_[20:18:42] <quan> Does anyone know what this is? https://paste.ee/p/mH0HS[20:19:06] <patdk-lap> a pastebin?[20:19:28] <quan> :j[20:20:12] <quan> routines:SSL23_GET_CLIENT_HELLO:unknown protocol:s23_srvr[20:21:04] <patdk-lap> unknown protocol[20:24:26] <rob0> I think that might be the error when wrongly using wrappermode.[20:25:16] <quan> rob0: Anything to worry about or that can be fixed? This is my bank.[20:27:52] <patdk-lap> what is your mta?[20:28:02] <quan> Postfix[20:28:07] <quan> CentOS7.4[20:28:29] <patdk-lap> what is your mta dns name[20:28:43] *** Columbo0815 <Columbo0815!~foobar@HSI-KBW-149-172-2-93.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de> has quit IRC (Quit: Verlassend)[20:28:50] <quan> mail.quantum-equities.com[20:30:13] <rob0> oh, maybe then you tried to "secure" your server by limiting its TLS settings[20:30:42] <patdk-lap> tls 1.0 doesn't work to you[20:30:56] <patdk-lap> 1.1 and 1.2 work[20:30:59] <quan> No doubt. So Flagstar is using low security?[20:31:14] <patdk-lap> anyone using < tls 1.3 is using low security[20:31:39] <quan> It's the old balancing act then.[20:32:04] <quan> BAD Flagstar. Bad BAD Flagstar.[20:32:13] <rob0> Best idea is to leave the various TLS knobs untweaked[20:32:16] <patdk-lap> they allow 1.2 incoming though :)[20:33:02] <quan> rob0: But that would reduce security.[20:33:09] <patdk-lap> could say, your 2k rsa key is low security :)[20:33:23] <quan> eh...[20:33:39] <rob0> you don't understand SMTP. In SMTP, if TLS can't be negotiated, clients will fall back to plaintext.[20:33:53] <patdk-lap> rob0, sometimes[20:34:04] <rob0> How is plaintext any weaker than weak TLS protocols?[20:34:06] <patdk-lap> a lot of servers, if you offer starttls, they will NOT fallback to plaintext[20:34:52] <patdk-lap> such as that flagstar server[20:34:56] <quan> I would rather not.[20:35:13] <quan> How would I set that?[20:35:24] <patdk-lap> set what?[20:35:36] <quan> No fallback to cleartext.[20:36:05] <patdk-lap> just disable plaintext[20:36:40] <quan> smtp_tls_security_level = dane[20:36:40] <quan> smtpd_tls_security_level = may[20:36:57] <quan> Set smtpd to encrypt?[20:37:20] <lunaphyte> sure, if you want to lose mail[20:37:22] <rob0> you'll lose mail if you do[20:37:34] <quan> ffmeh...[20:37:35] <patdk-lap> change may to encrypt[20:37:53] <lunaphyte> you need to STOP trying to shoehorn email concepts into what you know about http[20:38:21] <quan> (uh oh, something evil this way cometh...)[20:38:34] <patdk-lap> encryption of smtp is only for two things[20:38:41] *** bs <bs!bs@sahara.sigint.pw> has quit IRC (Quit: ZNC - https://znc.in)[20:38:46] <patdk-lap> making password transmission for users secure[20:38:53] *** bs <bs!bs@sahara.sigint.pw> has joined #postfix[20:38:56] <patdk-lap> and to stop mitm attacks[20:39:05] <patdk-lap> not to secure the email itself[20:39:14] <lunaphyte> there are two fundamental things you need to learn and accept here.[20:39:18] <quan> Disagree with that last.[20:39:26] <lunaphyte> 1] in smtp, encryption is OPTIONAL[20:39:43] <lunaphyte> this is not a topic for debate. it's not something that can be WISHED away. period. it's optional.[20:39:53] *** Columbo0815 <Columbo0815!~foobar@HSI-KBW-149-172-2-93.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de> has joined #postfix[20:40:03] <quan> I was hoping that wishing would work.[20:40:12] <patdk-lap> oh, it does[20:40:16] <patdk-lap> just just receive less email[20:40:17] <lunaphyte> 2] if you ignore rule 1, and you ENFORCE encryption, you will LOSE mail. period. it will happen[20:40:21] <patdk-lap> that can be bad, or might not be[20:40:41] <quan> I'll leave it at may.[20:41:01] *** db` <db`!db@goat.fr.eu.panicbnc.net> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)[20:41:03] <lunaphyte> once you have accepted those two things, you can then actually move forward in a useful way[20:41:27] <quan> Accepting is always the hard part.[20:41:47] *** heroux <heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-vxgicvpsoxpdzgxb> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)[20:42:09] <quan> Whelp, thanks all, I have to go mail some brake calipers.[20:42:17] *** quan <quan!~quassel@50.35.109.212> has quit IRC (Remote host closed the connection)[20:42:21] *** Tarius <Tarius!~Tarius@unaffiliated/tarius> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)[20:43:30] *** Tarius <Tarius!~Tarius@adsl-dyn60.78-99-122.t-com.sk> has joined #postfix[20:43:30] *** Tarius <Tarius!~Tarius@adsl-dyn60.78-99-122.t-com.sk> has quit IRC 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<mattcen!~mattcen@c122-108-68-124.sunsh1.vic.optusnet.com.au> has joined #postfix[21:19:43] <zerocool> hi guys, i have an email server in a network that blocks 25 out, i have a server outside the network that i would like to connect to via 587, which can then send mail to other email servers on 25, i believe this is a "relay"[21:20:29] <zerocool> just want to make sure that this is possible[21:23:37] *** Jikan <Jikan!~Jikan@2001:41d0:8:7844::8> has quit IRC (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)[21:30:59] *** kingkong <kingkong!~Admin@shellium/member/kingkong> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[21:30:59] *** [NoClan]GoAway <[NoClan]GoAway!~NoClan@185.64.105.109> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[21:30:59] *** Zilon_ <Zilon_!~Zilon@www.schem.me> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[21:31:00] *** dl8bh <dl8bh!~bammes@shells.postadigitale.org> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[21:31:00] *** linex <linex!~quassel@58.26.242.250> has quit IRC (*.net *.split)[21:31:00] *** sep <sep!~sep@2a04:2747:7e0b:d700:52e5:49ff:feeb:32> 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seconds)[22:03:15] *** heroux <heroux!sandroco@gateway/shell/insomnia247/x-wvfusxbyftaeigqf> has joined #postfix[22:06:25] *** troys_ is now known as troys[22:06:27] *** nikitis <nikitis!~nikitis@208-104-228-173.rh4.cm.dyn.comporium.net> has joined #postfix[22:25:42] <lunaphyte> i like having two[22:26:47] <rob0> you ... you ... 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