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[03:16:59] <ebrasca> !getting_help

[03:17:00] <knoba> ebrasca: "getting_help" : before asking your question, read the !relevant_logs and !showconfig factoids, and prepare a single pastebin containing all of that data. if you don't understand what this means, or if you need help doing this, please let us know. also see !pastebin

[03:17:26] <ebrasca> !showconfig

[03:17:26] <knoba> ebrasca: "showconfig" : when asked to provide your config, please provide a SINGLE pastebin (see !pastebin) with postconf -nf and postconf -Mf. if your version is too old for those commands to work (< 2.9), you should upgrade, but see !showconfig_old

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[03:22:25] <ebrasca> !relevant_logs

[03:22:26] <knoba> ebrasca: "relevant_logs" : mail.* syslog Postfix log messages (NOT verbose, see !no_verbose) which show ONLY the entire handling of a single mail which illustrates the issue with which you want help. Random selections from your mail log are not adequate. IMAP/POP3 daemons and external delivery agents often log to the same syslog facility and should not be shown. Also see http://rob0.nodns4.us/postfix-logging

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[03:25:26] <ebrasca> Hi

[03:25:30] <ebrasca> I need help

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[03:25:42] <ebrasca> Here everiting you ask : http://termbin.com/cs1o

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[03:37:38] <ebrasca> How long to wait until writing again my problem?

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[03:46:01] <ebrasca> I get "Sender address rejected: not owned by user ebrasca at librepanther dot com" in my postfix config.

[03:50:25] <ebrasca> I recently have changed from pam to mysql in my dovecot.

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[04:29:15] <ebrasca> Hi

[04:29:27] <ebrasca> I need help with Here everiting you ask : http://termbin.com/cs1o

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[04:42:04] <CyberCr33p> hello

[04:46:22] <CyberCr33p> I have two 2 postfix relays. I want soft bounce messages to retry with the other relay (smtp1.mydomain.com to smtp_fallback_relay to smtp2.mydomain.com and smtp2.mydomain.com to smtp_fallback_relay to smtp1.mydomain.com). Now with this settings if both IPs are rate limited (or other issue) it will keep trying to send it again and again and it will never stop retrying, right?

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[06:28:23] <Zerberus> ebrasca: you have configured smtpd_sender_login_maps=pcre:/etc/postfix/login_map

[06:29:26] <Zerberus> smtpd_tls_security_level = encrypt is nonsense on a public MTA on port 25

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[07:07:48] <ebrasca> Zerberus: what do you mean?

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[08:37:18] <ebrasca> I need help with : http://termbin.com/cs1o

[08:38:05] <ebrasca> Zerberus: I like security.

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[19:34:57] <ebrasca> I need help with : http://termbin.com/cs1o

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[19:45:19] <rob0> You tried to implement a feature without fully understanding it.  What is in that login_map file?

[19:45:56] <rob0> As others have already mentioned, smtpd_tls_security_level=encrypt is silly on port 25.

[19:54:16] <ebrasca> rob0: Why is it bad to have encrypt?

[19:54:49] <ebrasca> rob0: login_map is to only send mail from my domain.

[19:55:31] <ebrasca> rob0: I understand main.cfg

[19:55:54] <thumbs> e0/26

[19:56:12] <ebrasca> rob0: But it is more hard to understand master.cf

[19:57:06] <rob0> What is in that login_map file?

[19:57:20] <rob0> I won't answer your questions if you don't answer mine.

[19:58:21] <ebrasca> rob0: /^(.*) at librepanther dot com$/   ${1}

[19:58:45] <rob0> thumbs, 5

[19:58:50] <ebrasca> rob0: login_map have this ^

[20:00:49] <rob0> !smtpd_sender_login_maps

[20:00:49] <knoba> rob0: "smtpd_sender_login_maps" : a configuration parameter in the main.cf: Optional lookup table with the SASL login names that own sender (MAIL FROM) addresses.

[20:01:46] <ebrasca> rob0: For me it look good.

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[20:02:11] <ebrasca> rob0: My domain @librepanther.com + user

[20:02:25] <rob0> but the SASL username is just "user"

[20:04:08] <ebrasca> rob0: maybe I can delete this line.

[20:04:26] <rob0> maybe try /^(.* at librepanther\ dot com)$/ ${1}

[20:04:42] <rob0> if you are for some reason using the whole email address in your MUA

[20:07:52] <ebrasca> rob0: wow thanks you.

[20:09:39] <ebrasca> rob0: with /^(.* at librepanther\ dot com)$/ ${1} I can send mail to other mails.

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[20:11:42] <rob0> smtpd_tls_security_level=encrypt is silly on port 25 because you WILL lose legitimate mail.  TLS is not mandatory in SMTP and some senders do not use it.

[20:14:08] <ebrasca> rob0: Is better to have smtpd_tls_security_level = may ?

[20:14:31] <rob0> correct

[20:15:06] <ebrasca> rob0: But is it save for data privacy to have may?

[20:15:09] <rob0> "encrypt" is a good idea on submission, of course

[20:15:29] <rob0> it's not safe for data privacy to use email at all

[20:15:36] <ebrasca> rob0: I understand it is about port 25.

[20:16:08] <rob0> it's not safe for data privacy to use email at all (unless you use end-to-end encryption like gpg)

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[20:16:32] <ebrasca> rob0: I like gnupg.

[20:17:15] <JPT> Additional transport security cannot hurt to protect your metadata

[20:17:34] <JPT> Also, on submission you are protecting credentials that are used for authentication

[20:20:43] <ebrasca> JPT: I understand because I have plain pasword.

[20:20:55] <JPT> Okay :)

[20:22:32] <ebrasca> Now I need to fix 451 4.3.5 Server configuration error to get mail.

[20:22:43] <ebrasca> If i can fix it I come here some time later.

[20:22:47] <ebrasca> *can't

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[22:04:05] <quan> When someone tries to send me email, they get a timeout on port 25.  No wonder, I'm only listening on 587.

[22:04:05] <quan> Am I supposed to plumb 25 to 587 in the router?  Would TLS be understaood?

[22:04:05] <quan> Why don't outside SMTP servers bother to try 587?

[22:04:20] <pj> quan: can you show this please...

[22:04:25] <pj> !tell quan getting_help

[22:04:26] <knoba> quan: "getting_help" : before asking your question, read the !relevant_logs and !showconfig factoids, and prepare a single pastebin containing all of that data. if you don't understand what this means, or if you need help doing this, please let us know. also see !pastebin

[22:04:31] <pj> !tell quan relevant_logs

[22:04:32] <knoba> quan: "relevant_logs" : mail.* syslog Postfix log messages (NOT verbose, see !no_verbose) which show ONLY the entire handling of a single mail which illustrates the issue with which you want help. Random selections from your mail log are not adequate. IMAP/POP3 daemons and external delivery agents often log to the same syslog facility and should not be shown. Also see http://rob0.nodns4.us/postfix-logging

[22:04:35] <pj> !tell quan showconfig

[22:04:36] <knoba> quan: "showconfig" : when asked to provide your config, please provide a SINGLE pastebin (see !pastebin) with postconf -nf and postconf -Mf. if your version is too old for those commands to work (< 2.9), you should upgrade, but see !showconfig_old

[22:04:49] <pj> the showconfig is especially important in this case.

[22:05:15] <quan> knoba did you understand my issue?

[22:05:25] <pj> !tell quan knoba

[22:05:25] <knoba> quan: "knoba" : (#1) an informational bot in this channel (see http://workaround.org/f=postfix), or (#2) To /msg the bot and get a factoid: /msg knoba whatis #postfix <factoid_name>

[22:05:30] <quan> ... or are you a bot?

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[22:07:53] <lunaphyte> quan: first, smtp uses port 25.

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[22:08:20] <quan> ... and smtpd uses 587.

[22:08:27] <quan> er smtps

[22:08:38] <pj> no

[22:08:46] <lunaphyte> second, i doubt very much that you think pj is a bot, and thus the comment is rather innapropriate

[22:08:50] <pj> smtps is deprecated, submission uses 587

[22:08:54] <lunaphyte> no, smtps does not use 587.

[22:09:00] <lunaphyte> ^^

[22:09:17] <pj> lunaphyte: he was asking if knoba is a bot.

[22:09:33] <lunaphyte> oh?

[22:09:35] <lunaphyte> oh, ok

[22:09:39] <lunaphyte> that's relief

[22:09:40] <quan> (right, I know pj from elsewhere)

[22:09:43] <lunaphyte> *a relief

[22:09:48] <lunaphyte> my mistake

[22:10:01] <pj> no worries, he came over from #ghettoforge so he knows I'm not a bot.

[22:10:38] <lunaphyte> well, suffice it to say that it does not matter what port is used for either submission or smtps.

[22:11:20] <lunaphyte> because neither is used for mail exchange.  mail exchange uses smtp, which uses port 25

[22:12:48] <quan> lunaphyte: I want to use smtps though. (LetsEncrypt)

[22:13:18] <quan> https://paste.ee/p/trzst

[22:13:20] <lunaphyte> use for what?

[22:13:33] <quan> mail transfer

[22:13:52] <lunaphyte> mail exchange uses smtp, which uses port 25

[22:14:15] <lunaphyte> good lord, that config is full of silliness!  :(

[22:14:32] <quan> Everyone seems to want to use unencrypted smtp, but I want encryption on that first leg.

[22:14:54] <lunaphyte> what is "that first leg"?

[22:14:56] <quan> eh, thank you.

[22:15:26] <lunaphyte> the port used has no bearing on if encryption is used

[22:15:41] <lunaphyte> encryption works perfectly fine with smtp/25

[22:15:52] <quan> So I could plumb 25 to 587 in the router and get away with it?

[22:15:58] <pj> quan: no

[22:16:02] <lunaphyte> that makes no sense

[22:16:11] <lunaphyte> 587 is submission.  that's not smtp

[22:16:19] <quan> (see pj, this is what I expected here)

[22:16:25] <pj> don't do that, postfix can listen on port 25 just fine, and should have different settings for 25 and 587.

[22:16:29] <lunaphyte> mail exchange uses smtp

[22:17:17] <lunaphyte> "this is what I expected here"?

[22:17:24] <quan> My understanding is that smtp is -not- encrypted.

[22:17:35] <lunaphyte> your understanding is -wrong-

[22:17:40] <pj> quan: you're missing the fsmtp inet entry from your master.cf.  Have you commented it out or removed it?

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[22:17:57] <pj> *smtp inet

[22:19:56] <pj> quan: smtp uses starttls encryption, and is the only way to encrypt traffic for MX to MX communication.

[22:19:58] <quan> pj: indeed it is commented out, as I thought it's unencrypted.

[22:20:08] <lunaphyte> quan: you are mistaken

[22:20:09] <quan> K

[22:20:16] <pj> quan: uncomment it for starters, then read this...

[22:20:19] <pj> !tell quan tls

[22:20:19] <knoba> quan: "tls" : Transport Layer Security (RFC2246). Previously known as SSL, TLS adds a layer of encryption to protocols such as SMTP, submission, IMAP or POP3 to improve security during transmission over the Internet. TLS is implemented using the STARTTLS method, while the non-standard wrapper style of implementation is deprecated at this point. See http://www.postfix.org/TLS_README.html for more info.

[22:22:02] <quan> I've studied tls, but when this says smtp I interpreted that to be smtps or what I see as newer, submission.

[22:22:38] <lunaphyte> it appears you may have also followed a really bad blog on "securing postfix" too :(

[22:22:43] <quan> port 465 (smtps) is depreciated, so I went with submission..

[22:22:47] <lunaphyte> there's lots of misguided settings in your config which have been set

[22:23:10] <lunaphyte> quan: submission and smtps have nothing to do with mail exchange

[22:23:29] <quan> This is all from an Ars Technica article, which is the most accessible instruction I could find in the sprawling universe of postfix.

[22:23:51] <Alver> And by "accessible", one can understand "painfully wrong" in many cases

[22:23:52] <pj> yeah, random instructions on the internet generally get you into lots of trouble.

[22:23:57] <quan> I'd failed at two other attempts at this hatstack.

[22:23:57] <lunaphyte> well, ars technica is then the most recent idiots in a long ling giving irresponsible advice about securing mail servers

[22:24:05] <lunaphyte> *long line

[22:24:22] <pj> have you actually read the TLS_README?

[22:24:43] <quan> lunaphyte: there are just no coherent and unified instructions for educated people who do not do this for a LIVING.

[22:25:01] <quan> pj: I haven't.

[22:25:21] <pj> then please read it.  I did not ask about your knowledge of TLS and postfix, I asked you to read a specific doc.

[22:25:38] <quan> Will do.

[22:26:19] <quan> Postfix now listend on 25, with the master.cf fix.  Still need to open the firewalls.

[22:26:22] <pj> once you're read it, and followed the instructions in it to enable STARTTLS for port 25, then if you have further questions please don't hesitate to ask.

[22:35:09] <Alver> ... and don't worry about being chewed out for your config. Most people go through a few iterations before it's considered "clean and sane".

[22:35:13] <Alver> (I know I did)

[22:37:14] <quan> (Thx Alver.  I have to adult work and am just not interested in bickering contests)

[22:38:03] <quan> I'll be damned, I'm getting emails now.

[22:42:45] <quan> ... can't send them tho.  Still working on the TLS doc.

[22:42:58] <pj> quan: it's not about bickering, it's just a gut reaction to seeing yet another config that's been trashed by following bad advice.

[22:43:07] <pj> What happens when you try to send?

[22:43:35] <quan> It times out.  Might be my client set to 587.

[22:43:55] <pj> you're still listening on 587 for it, right?

[22:44:01] <pj> your client times out?

[22:44:33] <quan> Yes postfix is listening on 25 and 587, and the client times out trying to send.

[22:45:02] <quan> ... on 587

[22:45:39] <pj> ok, show your config again, and check your maillog to see if it shows anything at all on your attempt to send via 587 and if it does paste the full relevant log entries in a pastebin.

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[22:47:19] <pj> quan: going by your previous paste, you uncommented the submission line in your master.cf, but you did not uncomment the full submission *section*.  The entire section is needed for submission to work properly.

[22:47:45] <quan> O

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[22:52:33] <quan> dang, there's alot more to submission...

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[22:54:07] <lunaphyte> submission needs to require encryption, and needs to require authentication

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[22:58:28] <quan> Now with those submission options uncommented, postfix can't find a number of mua_ parameters... researching.

[23:00:51] <KingOfFools_> Hello guys. Looks like my postfix is checking if sender email is exists, but accepts messages regardless of the result. What could be wrong?

[23:03:04] <lunaphyte> !tell KingOfFools_ getting_help

[23:03:05] <knoba> KingOfFools_: "getting_help" : before asking your question, read the !relevant_logs and !showconfig factoids, and prepare a single pastebin containing all of that data. if you don't understand what this means, or if you need help doing this, please let us know. also see !pastebin

[23:03:51] <pj> quan: relevant logs and config, please.

[23:08:10] <quan> pj: https://paste.ee/p/VCAFs  -- working on the config

[23:13:09] <quan> https://paste.ee/p/HQIRl

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[23:18:21] <pj> quan: you'd either need to define explicit mua_* settings in main.cf or just comment those lines back out of master.cf

[23:18:34] <rob0> the mua_* settings are non-postconf settings which are there to make good basic defaults for submission

[23:19:06] <rob0> Not being defined means the same as being empty, which in most cases is what you would want.

[23:19:20] <rob0> The warnings are completely harmless.

[23:19:25] <quan> K.  I have many things to figure out but I'll try to suss out decent settings.

[23:19:40] <pj> rob0: I might complain about those on the ml, if they're in master.cf commented out, they should also be in main.cf commented out as well, but they don't appear to be.

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[23:20:14] <rob0> Putting them in main.cf empty would make the warnings go away.

[23:20:18] <pj> yes

[23:20:27] <pj> or just comment out the lines in master.cf

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[23:21:02] <quan> Eh, I'll comment out in master.

[23:21:42] <rob0> The reason why not commented in master: to override any smtpd_mumble_restrictions you may have set, which usually would not be appropriate on submission.

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[23:22:19] <rob0> The warnings are seen as being better than misfunctionality.

[23:22:49] <pj> yes, true, if you have those smtpd_*_restrictions set in main.cf then you might want to override them in master.cf

[23:23:25] <pj> you can just get rid of the $mua_* part and leave the rest of the settings to explicitly set them to blank and not get the warnings.

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[23:24:01] <rob0> but commenting out in master could possibly be the worst "fix" for the harmless warnings

[23:24:28] <quan> I can # after the = ?

[23:24:38] <rob0> no

[23:24:55] <rob0> you can REMOVE all after the =

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[23:26:19] <quan> Ah, I'll just comment out the whole line(s).  That works.

[23:26:59] <pj> quan: I would listen to rob0 on this one, commenting out the whole line can cause issues down the road.

[23:27:17] <quan> K

[23:28:17] <quan> It twerks.  But weird that this should be necessary.

[23:28:27] <pj> in fact you have this in your main.cf which one of those lines is explicitly designed to overwrite: smtpd_helo_restrictions = permit_mynetworks, reject_non_fqdn_helo_hostname,   reject_invalid_helo_hostname, reject_unknown_helo_hostname, permit

[23:28:52] <pj> quan: you probably need a better understanding of how main.cf and master.cf settings work

[23:28:57] <pj> !tell quan master.cf

[23:28:58] <knoba> quan: "master.cf" : postfix master process configuration file. each logical line describes how a postfix service will be run. see man 5 master or http://www.postfix.org/master.5.html for more information. also see !master

[23:29:13] <pj> !tell quan main.cf

[23:29:13] <knoba> quan: "main.cf" : the central configuration file for Postfix. A complete description of all settings can be found at http://www.postfix.org/postconf.5.html

[23:29:30] <cemotyz09> what should default permissions be for /etc/postfix directory I'm recieving "warning: /etc/postfix/dynamicmaps.cf: file is owned or writable by non-root .."

[23:29:41] <quan> Getting in the weeds, where I'll surely be lost.

[23:30:02] <quan> Already so, in fact.

[23:30:08] <pj> quan: yeah, well none of this is easy to start with.  There is certainly a learning curve here.

[23:30:54] <quan> Been trying for 2 months just to get this running, so I can start job hunting.  Way behind schedule.

[23:32:24] <quan> It's a miracle I've gotten to this point.

[23:34:29] <KingOfFools_> As I sai, postfix is checking if sender email is exists, but accepts messages regardless of the result. What could be wrong?

[23:34:31] <KingOfFools_> https://paste.ee/p/S34aw

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[23:39:42] <rob0> The warnings are less harmful than inadvertantly rejecting submitted mail.

[23:41:27] <rob0> KingOfFools_, it's doing what you told it to do,

[23:41:35] <rob0> !warn_if_reject

[23:41:35] <knoba> rob0: "warn_if_reject" : a parameter that means: Change the meaning of the next restriction, so that it logs a warning instead of rejecting a request (look for logfile records that contain "reject_warning"). This is useful for testing new restrictions in a "live" environment without risking unnecessary loss of mail.

[23:41:59] <rob0> also, sender verification is abusive,

[23:42:02] <rob0> !verify

[23:42:02] <knoba> rob0: "verify" : Sender or recipient address verification features: http://www.postfix.org/ADDRESS_VERIFICATION_README.html

[23:46:56] <quan> pj: Is it inadviseable to set smtpd_tls_received_header = encrypt?

[23:53:25] <KingOfFools_> rob0: thank you, i missed that. Can you explain 'sender verification is abusive' please?

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[23:56:20] <rob0> Yes, it's the same thing as backscatter spam.  Suppose a spammer does a spam run using randomlocalparts at your dot domain ... all the verifiers will hit your server like a ton of bricks.
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   November 30, 2017  
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