June 21, 2013 
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June 21, 2013 [00:18:04] *** Guest02377-50092 has quit IRC[00:22:34] *** internat has joined #postfix[00:56:30] *** tidd has quit IRC[00:59:43] *** MaximusColourum has quit IRC[00:59:55] *** cloq has quit IRC[01:00:28] *** pdtpatrick has joined #postfix[01:00:53] <pdtpatrick> Hi .. i'm noticing maildrop is quite large on my box. Can someone please explain how i can see that queue ?[01:04:41] *** cloq has joined #postfix[01:06:30] *** danblack has joined #postfix[01:10:46] *** wdp has quit IRC[01:14:47] *** tidd has joined #postfix[01:19:07] *** ffiore has quit IRC[01:21:33] *** err-or has quit IRC[01:21:53] *** err-or has joined #postfix[01:24:00] *** Motoko has quit IRC[01:26:05] *** Motoko has joined #postfix[01:30:47] *** shinao1 has quit IRC[01:37:12] <Patrickdk> pdtpatrick, heh?[01:37:18] <Patrickdk> maildrop isn't a queue[01:40:01] *** Quadro has joined #postfix[01:43:06] *** danblack has quit IRC[01:51:59] <pdtpatrick> Patrickdk: maildrop had plenty files in it that filled up my /[01:52:03] <pdtpatrick> i delete the files in there[01:52:10] <pdtpatrick> but looks like they were not released[01:52:23] <pdtpatrick> as i can see them marked at (deleted) with lsof[01:52:38] <pdtpatrick> do i need to kill postdrop and restart postfix?[01:54:58] *** Motoko has quit IRC[01:55:01] <Patrickdk> well, postdrop is what read the mails in maildrop one at a time, and feeds it to qmgr to go into active[01:57:58] *** Phoenixz has quit IRC[01:59:52] <pdtpatrick> Patrickdk: how would i tell it to release those open files? i need to clear space :([01:59:53] <rob0> Don't ever muck about in Postfix queues:[01:59:57] <rob0> !postsuper[01:59:57] <knoba> rob0: "postsuper" : the queue supervision tool for postfix. Use it with the option "-d" to remove mails from the queue. See 'man postsuper' for more information.[02:00:28] <Patrickdk> only option you have now is to kill postfix[02:00:40] <pdtpatrick> k[02:08:32] <lunaphyte> kill it with fire[02:08:59] <pdtpatrick> rob0: postsuper -d .. does not remove mail from maildrop[02:09:26] <Patrickdk> nothing is more effective than sicking my wife on it[02:09:36] <pdtpatrick> ha[02:09:39] <thumbs> heh?[02:10:25] <pdtpatrick> so then it seems like the best option is to delete the files and wait for postdrop to release them[02:11:24] * Patrickdk thinks the best option right now is[02:11:28] <Patrickdk> oreo cookie time![02:11:39] <thumbs> yum[02:16:14] *** wald00 has quit IRC[02:16:24] *** wald00 has joined #postfix[02:23:21] *** MaximusColourum has joined #postfix[02:31:03] *** Phoenixz has joined #postfix[02:31:03] *** Phoenixz has joined #postfix[02:31:53] *** wald00 has quit IRC[02:32:35] *** tidd has quit IRC[02:33:42] *** RayS has quit IRC[03:38:34] *** Phoenixz has quit IRC[03:42:51] *** higuita has quit IRC[03:45:58] *** higuita has joined #postfix[04:02:29] *** MaximusColourum has quit IRC[04:04:31] *** badiane has quit IRC[04:56:50] *** stljim has quit IRC[05:00:39] *** danblack has joined #postfix[05:05:18] *** rob0 has quit IRC[05:09:17] *** badiane has joined #postfix[05:11:04] *** pajamian has joined #postfix[05:13:43] *** rob0 has joined #postfix[05:13:44] *** rob0 has joined #postfix[05:14:18] *** pj has quit IRC[05:49:28] *** rob0_ has joined #postfix[05:49:29] *** rob0_ has joined #postfix[05:56:27] *** m1nish has quit IRC[06:12:12] *** cilly has quit IRC[06:13:39] *** cilly has joined #postfix[06:31:03] *** Bronze has quit IRC[06:50:26] *** magyar has quit IRC[07:01:45] *** amboss has quit IRC[07:05:19] *** xcrracer has quit IRC[07:05:32] *** xcrracer has joined #postfix[07:06:44] *** aindilis` has joined #postfix[07:09:53] *** aindilis2 has quit IRC[07:11:57] *** amboss has joined #postfix[07:12:35] *** eth00 has quit IRC[07:13:37] *** ffiore has joined #postfix[07:17:22] *** qdrrmt has joined #postfix[07:32:19] *** jacekows1i is now known as jacekowski[07:37:50] *** tharkun has quit IRC[07:42:03] *** amboss has quit IRC[07:43:33] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[07:47:06] *** tharkun has quit IRC[07:47:39] *** pajamian has quit IRC[07:52:14] *** pajamian has joined #postfix[07:52:41] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[07:56:23] *** tharkun has quit IRC[07:56:43] *** on1ald has joined #postfix[08:01:56] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[08:02:27] *** ffiore has quit IRC[08:02:39] *** ffiore has joined #postfix[08:03:27] *** tharkun has quit IRC[08:09:05] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[08:12:06] *** tharkun has quit IRC[08:14:05] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[08:24:40] *** pajamian is now known as pj[08:25:36] *** tharkun has quit IRC[08:30:30] *** bungalo has joined #postfix[08:31:23] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[08:33:37] *** tharkun has quit IRC[08:35:11] *** ffiore has quit IRC[08:38:36] *** decci has joined #postfix[08:38:59] <decci> I have post fix running on Ubuntu machine. I need to redirect the mails stored to some different directory[08:39:33] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[08:41:07] *** tharkun has quit IRC[08:46:41] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[08:50:01] *** tharkun has quit IRC[08:51:08] *** decci has quit IRC[08:55:52] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[08:57:06] *** tharkun has quit IRC[09:03:00] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[09:03:56] *** tharkun has quit IRC[09:08:00] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[09:19:35] *** tharkun has quit IRC[09:20:29] *** swi has joined #postfix[09:22:07] <swi> Hello. Can i block some spammer with access(5) by from value in smtp session ?[09:22:46] *** wdp has joined #postfix[09:22:47] *** wdp has joined #postfix[09:24:38] <survietamine> swi: which values ?[09:25:18] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[09:26:06] *** tharkun has quit IRC[09:31:24] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[09:32:37] *** tharkun has quit IRC[09:38:33] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[09:39:50] *** tharkun has quit IRC[09:45:43] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[09:46:20] *** tharkun has quit IRC[09:51:50] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[09:52:46] *** tharkun has quit IRC[09:56:52] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[09:57:25] *** danblack has quit IRC[10:00:47] *** tharkun has quit IRC[10:01:53] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[10:05:38] <swi> survietamine: i mean 'from=some at email dot tld'[10:06:25] *** tharkun has quit IRC[10:07:18] *** war4head has quit IRC[10:07:50] *** shinao1 has joined #postfix[10:08:37] <Zerberus> swi: what does man 5 access tell you?[10:10:48] <swi> Zerberus: it tell me that i can use mail at domain dot tld to reject. I'v added such record to my access file, but i'm not sure it will reject by from filed in smtp session[10:11:51] <Zerberus> swi: and where exactly is your access map being called from postfix?[10:12:05] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[10:12:33] <swi> Zerberus: smtpd_helo_restrictions[10:12:59] <Zerberus> that's wrong[10:13:55] *** voxadam has joined #postfix[10:14:49] *** tharkun has quit IRC[10:14:54] <voxadam> Has anyone ever tried setting Postfix on a IPv6-only connection?[10:19:09] *** cy[] has joined #postfix[10:20:13] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[10:20:29] <swi> Zerberus: hm... you mean that on helo it' does not have 'from' so this will never check?[10:20:51] *** Eagleman has joined #postfix[10:21:01] *** cy[] has quit IRC[10:21:02] *** cy[] has joined #postfix[10:21:06] <cy[]> hi[10:21:13] <Zerberus> swi: yes, that's basically the case[10:21:15] <cy[]> i have had a script running amok and now my postfix has like 400k mails in the incoming queue.[10:21:33] <cy[]> is there a nice way to remove all mails with a special subject from the queue?[10:21:47] <cy[]> grepping through the headers is reallly slow :-I[10:21:49] <Zerberus> swi: smtpd_sender_restrictions would be the proper place, or if you don't split these checks then smtpd_recipient_restrictions[10:23:05] *** tharkun has quit IRC[10:25:13] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[10:25:21] <swi> Zerberus: ah.. i see what my fault. Thanks![10:28:26] *** tharkun has quit IRC[10:29:50] *** Eagleman has quit IRC[10:31:52] *** pajamian has joined #postfix[10:34:23] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[10:34:49] *** pj has quit IRC[10:35:46] *** tharkun has quit IRC[10:41:31] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[10:45:05] *** tharkun has quit IRC[10:50:40] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[10:52:58] *** tharkun has quit IRC[10:55:09] *** richard_w has joined #postfix[10:55:37] <richard_w> hi[10:57:41] <richard_w> i will have to reinstall our mailserver in the next weeks. It is absolutely neccessary that '''no'' mail gets lost as we are a public body and we are required by law to archive everything we get for 10 years[10:58:31] <Aprogas> Do you expect your downtime to be weeks, and if yes why?[10:58:51] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[10:59:32] <richard_w> nope, but i expect that our configuration might not work out of the box and the new mailserver rejects some mails[10:59:56] <richard_w> we tested everything already, but we can not absolutely rule out that case[11:00:49] <richard_w> my plan now is the following: we delete the mx for our primary smtp and let our backup postfix cache all the mails[11:01:41] <richard_w> during the installation we shut down the backup-postfix and configure our new mailserver[11:02:16] <richard_w> when it works we just set the mx-record again and start everything[11:02:17] *** tharkun has quit IRC[11:02:34] <richard_w> i just wanted to ask if this is a reasonable plan[11:02:49] <Aprogas> That sounds like a scenario that adds an extra complexity and therefor an extra risk.[11:02:53] <Aprogas> !tell richard_w soft_bounce[11:02:53] <knoba> richard_w: "soft_bounce" : a configuration parameter in the main.cf: Safety net to keep mail queued that would otherwise be returned to the sender. This parameter disables locally-generated bounces, and prevents the Postfix SMTP server from rejecting mail permanently, by changing 5xx reply codes into 4xx. However, soft_bounce is no cure for address rewriting mistakes or mail routing mistakes.[11:02:59] <Aprogas> Maybe that is more what you are looking for.[11:04:06] <richard_w> aprogas: well that is definitely better... thank you very much[11:04:30] <Aprogas> Just keep in mind that remote parties will generally only keep trying for 4/5 days.[11:04:45] <Aprogas> So make sure you actively monitor all rejects during that period.[11:04:45] *** pajamian is now known as pj[11:04:51] <Aprogas> !tell richard_w notify_classes[11:04:51] <knoba> richard_w: "notify_classes" : a configuration parameter in the main.cf: The list of error classes that are reported to the postmaster. The default is to report only the most serious problems. The paranoid may wish to turn on the policy (UCE and mail relaying) and protocol error (broken mail software) reports.[11:04:52] <richard_w> i don't expect the maintenance to last more than maybe 6 hours[11:04:55] <Aprogas> That might be of use.[11:06:53] <richard_w> yes thank you[11:07:59] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[11:08:12] <sep> richard_w, your backup mx can put mails in hold. eg with static:hold last in a restriction. ; then you can release from hold once the primary is operational again.[11:09:08] <sep> that way your backup with accept as normal email. and just store in hold until you tell it to send them with a postsuper command[11:09:57] *** tharkun has quit IRC[11:10:25] *** shinao1 has quit IRC[11:11:13] <sep> richard_w, i would not mess with the dns since. the propagation is slow and unknown, you can not be sure all caches obay TTL. so i would just firewall or drop smtp traffic to the primay MX while working on it. that way you can fairly instantly know that there will be no more mail incoming.[11:11:52] <sep> if you insist on doing dns mx changes. make sure you lower your ttl a few days before changing the mx's[11:12:56] <richard_w> that might be of use too, thank you[11:13:00] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[11:14:49] <sep> i belive putting the mail in hold. also avoids the bounce_queue_lifetime[11:15:50] <sep> hum not certain actualy. so you might want to up that from 5d as well if you expect to spend weeks on this.[11:18:58] *** tharkun has quit IRC[11:19:10] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[11:24:05] *** tharkun has quit IRC[11:24:21] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[11:25:22] *** mechanicalduck has joined #postfix[11:26:12] *** MaximusColourum has joined #postfix[11:26:12] *** tharkun has quit IRC[11:29:15] <pj> yeah, mail will stay in hold indefinately[11:29:21] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[11:32:17] *** tharkun has quit IRC[11:32:50] *** danblack has joined #postfix[11:34:21] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[11:34:48] <richard_w> if we would need 5 days the management would literally kill us :)[11:36:02] <pj> richard_w: are you saying you're not allowed to reject any messages at all?[11:36:39] *** tharkun has quit IRC[11:38:04] <richard_w> pj: well... we do reject spam mails, although i am not really sure if this is ok[11:38:13] <richard_w> pj: no one complained yet and i am not a lawyer[11:41:07] *** danblack has quit IRC[11:42:30] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[11:46:45] *** shinao1 has joined #postfix[11:52:04] *** MaximusColourum has quit IRC[11:52:25] *** tharkun has quit IRC[11:53:48] *** danblack has joined #postfix[11:56:29] *** richard_w has quit IRC[11:57:48] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[11:59:20] *** gu1lle_ has quit IRC[12:03:38] *** tharkun has quit IRC[12:08:58] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[12:14:45] *** tharkun has quit IRC[12:18:21] *** danblack has quit IRC[12:19:11] *** averagecase has joined #postfix[12:20:20] <swi> .дуф[12:20:21] *** swi has left #postfix[12:20:23] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[12:29:39] *** Bry8Star has quit IRC[12:31:25] *** mechanicalduck has quit IRC[12:33:45] *** Bry8Star has joined #postfix[12:39:37] *** mechanicalduck has joined #postfix[12:45:18] *** mibofra has joined #postfix[12:45:18] *** mibofra has joined #postfix[12:46:21] *** p3rror has joined #postfix[12:46:36] *** mechanicalduck_ has joined #postfix[12:47:14] *** p3rror has quit IRC[12:47:27] *** p3rror has joined #postfix[12:47:50] *** talin has joined #postfix[12:48:37] *** mechanicalduck has quit IRC[12:48:40] <talin> hello. in my syslog, i see "warning: 44.44.44.44: hostname: example.com verification failed. hostname nor servname provided or not known"[12:48:56] <talin> if i do dig -x 44.44.44.44 i do get example.com[12:49:02] <talin> so reverse lookups are working fine[12:49:07] <talin> any ideas?[12:49:45] <Zerberus> talin: that does not appear to be a postfix syslog message or you did not cite it correct[12:50:02] <Zerberus> talin: do not obfuscate, pastebin the real log message to get help[12:50:18] <Zerberus> hunting ghosts makes not much sense[12:50:51] *** p3rror has quit IRC[12:51:08] *** p3rror has joined #postfix[12:51:42] *** mechanicalduck_ has quit IRC[12:52:30] <talin> Zerberus: https://dpaste.de/eIzwq/[12:52:34] *** mechanicalduck has joined #postfix[12:53:52] <Zerberus> talin: and your "postconf -n" please[12:54:16] <Zerberus> talin: Host kunde215.buso.no not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)[12:54:23] <Zerberus> talin: so that is the problem[12:55:15] *** multi_io has quit IRC[12:56:11] *** multi_io has joined #postfix[12:57:21] *** voxadam has quit IRC[12:58:19] <talin> Zerberus: ah, the reverse exists, but not the forward[12:59:49] *** averagecase has quit IRC[13:01:54] *** multi_io has quit IRC[13:04:37] *** mechanicalduck_ has joined #postfix[13:05:36] *** mechanicalduck has quit IRC[13:14:41] *** mechanicalduck has joined #postfix[13:15:24] *** mechanicalduck_ has quit IRC[13:18:33] *** multi_io has joined #postfix[13:28:46] *** mechanicalduck_ has 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quit IRC[16:25:23] *** qdrrmt has quit IRC[16:34:07] *** luis_alen has joined #postfix[16:38:03] <luis_alen> Hello, guys. Would you know whether it is wise to reject messages based on senderscore.org scores? If yes, is there a safe threshold you guys usually adopt? Are there any plugins available to do that?[16:38:42] *** shinao1 has quit IRC[16:43:30] *** tidd has joined #postfix[16:45:42] *** UQlev has joined #postfix[16:46:54] <waldi> what do they do?[16:55:29] <adaptr> luis_alen: do they produce results compatible with DNSBLs ?[16:56:43] <patdk-wk_> I have found senderscoe to not be too reliable, except if you adust it some[16:58:21] <patdk-wk_> oh, they want an accout for everything now, no wonder I didn't have it bookmarked anymore[16:58:37] <patdk-wk_> I used to go by spamtraps + unknown users to see if the score was reliable[16:58:55] <patdk-wk_> if it had 0 unknown users, then likely it would not be good to block based on score[16:59:07] <luis_alen> adaptr: I don't know how DNSBLs works exactly, but I know it involves DNS queries. senderscore uses DNS to query the score as well.[17:00:54] *** tjikkun_work has quit IRC[17:01:04] <adaptr> luis_alen: you can check the postscreen documentation to see what DNSBL results look like[17:04:23] <luis_alen> adaptr: It works like this http://d.pr/i/VHly . You query <sender ip inverted>.score.senderscore.com and then it responds with an IP where the last octet represents the score.[17:04:24] *** wald00 has joined #postfix[17:04:57] <adaptr> that is how DNSBLs work. you could have learned that by reading the postscreen documentation.[17:05:21] <adaptr> (although DNSBLs give the last octet a specific meaning, not a score)[17:06:52] <luis_alen> adaptr: cool. I'll definitely read it then and see if there's a way to use it with senderscore[17:07:08] *** mibofra has quit IRC[17:07:19] <luis_alen> patdk-wk_: How did you manage to integrate it with postfix?[17:07:50] <adaptr> I can think of one that involves some handwork. but why ? I've never heard of "senderscore", and nobody here uses it. do you have empirical evidence that it stops spam ?[17:10:53] <luis_alen> adaptr: No, I don't. That's why I also asked if it was wise/safe to use it :) Anyway, since it's a tool provided by returnpath, it must have some credibility…[17:11:34] <adaptr> it's come up maybe 3 times in 5 years here[17:11:38] <luis_alen> adaptr: there are some folks out there using it for rate limiting...[17:11:40] <rob0_> http://rob0.nodns4.us/postscreen.html is what I do.[17:12:06] <adaptr> luis_alen: do you use postscreen?[17:12:29] *** mibofra has joined #postfix[17:12:31] <luis_alen> adaptr: no, I don't.[17:12:56] <luis_alen> adaptr: To be honest I don't know what it does/how it works. But I'll read about it[17:13:41] <adaptr> then you should forget about senderscore, and upgrade to a sane postfix version. configure postscreen. use a few DNSBLs. it will cut 95% of crap right there, with zero 3rd party nonsense.[17:14:57] <rob0> well, a DNSBL is a third party :)[17:15:31] <patdk-wk_> luis_alen, I never intergrated it[17:15:38] <luis_alen> adaptr: thanks, pal. I'll definitely work on that...[17:15:45] <patdk-wk_> I more used it to double check things Iwas adding to my blacklist[17:16:11] <luis_alen> patdk-wk_: ok[17:22:06] <adaptr> rob0: shush[17:27:47] *** bungalo has quit IRC[17:28:21] *** MaximusColourum has joined #postfix[17:28:31] *** robinho86 has left #postfix[17:29:09] *** magyar has joined #postfix[17:29:09] *** magyar has joined #postfix[17:35:44] *** robinho86 has joined #postfix[17:37:22] <tmberg> Heh. I use: https://privatepaste.com/37027ce2d1/postscreen_dnsbl_sites[17:38:23] *** shinao1 has joined #postfix[17:41:30] *** Phoenixz has joined #postfix[17:41:30] *** Phoenixz has joined #postfix[17:43:11] <rob0> tmberg, threshold is what, 2?[17:43:34] <Dominian> that is a lot of RBls...[17:43:34] <rob0> ips.backscatterer.org*7 ? WTF?[17:43:54] <Dominian> That is probably overkill ...[17:44:11] <rob0> dnsbl-3.uceprotect.net, ugh[17:44:32] <rob0> sbl-xbl.spamhaus.org AND zen? Why?[17:44:51] <adaptr> yet another newbie with inherited rbl disease.[17:44:57] <jimpop> 2 tests are better than one?[17:45:09] <jimpop> moar, moar![17:45:17] <Dominian> all your RBLs are belong to us...[17:45:22] <jimpop> ha[17:45:32] *** snearch has joined #postfix[17:48:28] <UQlev> in my case most annoying spam comes from gmail and amazon, which I can't stop with postscreen[17:48:59] <rob0> That's a lot of DNSBLs to keep up with. I insist on knowing my DNSBLs.[17:49:22] <adaptr> I don't bother knowing them. I just use zen.[17:53:54] <rob0> That's not a bad approach, actually.[17:54:22] <adaptr> so I've discovered, about 3 years ago ;)[17:57:35] <tmberg> rob0: Threshold is 6. I have to use ips.backscatterer.org or else i get f*cked. Whats wrong with dnsbl-3.uceprotect.net? Ah. Thanks i missed remove everything regarding spamhaus.org other then zen.[17:58:16] <tmberg> Dominian: Maybe. But it "protects" me well. :)[17:58:23] <tmberg> adaptr: Bleh![17:59:29] <jimpop> cbl is already in zen, no?[17:59:35] <adaptr> !zen[17:59:35] <knoba> adaptr: "zen" : http://www.spamhaus.org/zen/ : A composite of all Spamhaus DNSBLs: SBL, XBL and PBL. Testing your DNSBL lookup can be done here: http://www.crynwr.com/spam/[18:00:06] <jimpop> cbl is already in xbl, no?[18:00:24] <jimpop> (rinse, repeat)[18:02:23] <adaptr> oh I have no clue. I just kneejerked[18:06:28] <rob0> ips.backscatterer.org is a list of backscatterers, not always spam. It should be used in smtpd, only against null sender addresses, not as a regular DNSBL.[18:06:52] <wdp> ehlo[18:06:52] <rob0> uceprotect level 3 is ... um, you're using that list, do you know?[18:11:26] *** mechanicalduck has joined #postfix[18:11:33] *** Cromulent has joined #postfix[18:21:14] <tmberg> rob0: I get a shitload off backscatter. :([18:22:49] <tmberg> rob0: Hm.. Yes. dnsbl-3.uceprotect.net doesnt look like a good idea. Im pretty sure i looked them all up. Must have missed that one. Thanks![18:25:27] *** mechanicalduck has quit IRC[18:57:54] *** p3rror has quit IRC[19:06:07] *** tharkun has quit IRC[19:06:07] *** tharkun has joined #postfix[19:07:36] *** luis_alen1 has joined #postfix[19:08:11] *** luis_alen has quit IRC[19:18:50] *** UQlev has quit IRC[19:27:01] *** wdp_ has joined #postfix[19:30:45] *** wdp has quit IRC[19:33:37] *** UQlev has joined #postfix[19:45:16] *** galex-713 has joined #postfix[19:47:26] <galex-713> Hi, does "message_size_limit=0" make message size unlimited like mailbox_size_limit?[19:49:18] <waldi> i don't think this is allowed[19:49:57] <galex-713> Oh, and why, in logs, postfix, when I set message_size_limit or mailbox_size_limit, say "Jun 21 19:42:09 server-713 postfix/local[17199]: fatal: bad numerical configuration: message_size_limit = 2147483648"[19:50:01] <galex-713> *?[19:50:22] <galex-713> waldi, why?[19:51:32] <UQlev> galex-713, it makes sense to limit message size[19:52:00] <UQlev> galex-713, otherwise oy will be limited by other servers[19:52:18] <waldi> where does it say that mailbox_size_limit=0 is allowed?[19:52:28] <waldi> or even message_size_limit=0[19:53:05] <galex-713> doc: "The maximal size of any local(8) individual mailbox or maildir file, or zero (no limit)."[19:54:50] <waldi> ah, yes. missed that[19:56:01] <galex-713> UQlev, and if I want to send by mail 16G of video to a friend who host himself too?[19:57:13] <UQlev> galex-713, it is poor practice to send by email big files and executable code[19:57:40] <lunaphyte> email is not for transferring files[19:57:45] <UQlev> galex-713, FTP, WEB_DAV for it[19:58:18] <galex-713> That's for public[19:58:24] <lunaphyte> a limit of 10m, or *maybe* 20m is tolerable.[19:58:35] <lunaphyte> there's no reason for larger sizes.[19:58:59] <galex-713> otherwise that need password[19:59:35] <UQlev> galex-713, your 16MB file after MIME encoding will be over 20MB[19:59:38] <galex-713> Send video?[20:00:05] <galex-713> 16GiB*[20:00:48] <galex-713> in several files[20:00:52] <UQlev> galex-713, 16GiB is crazy :)[20:01:16] <lunaphyte> 16gb email. that's f*cking HILARIOUS[20:01:53] <UQlev> galex-713, you will kill any post database like MSOutlook[20:02:00] <lunaphyte> do you also transport topsoil in your convertible?[20:02:26] <jimpop> lunaphyte: people rarely do that more than once[20:02:33] <galex-713> So it's impossible with postfix to postfix?[20:03:22] *** pajamian has joined #postfix[20:03:44] <lunaphyte> it's not about what's possible[20:03:50] <lunaphyte> that's absurd[20:03:56] <UQlev> galex-713, emagine speed MIME + tls encoded[20:04:03] <lunaphyte> it's "possible" to have sex with your sister...[20:04:18] <jimpop> wow[20:04:38] <jimpop> left field just arrived. ;-)[20:04:52] <lunaphyte> ok, i know that's not a fair comparison :)[20:05:06] <lunaphyte> a 16gb email attachment would be way more absurd[20:05:10] <lunaphyte> :p[20:05:21] <jimpop> ha[20:05:33] <galex-713> So I should install a FTP server, configure it, create a special user for my friend, set a password for him, tell to him, put the files on FTP server, let him download them, delete files…[20:05:43] <galex-713> …uninstall FTP server[20:05:52] <jimpop> ftp is so 1990s[20:05:56] <jimpop> use http[20:06:05] <waldi> use ssh[20:06:15] <waldi> http is so 2000s[20:06:24] *** pj has quit IRC[20:06:25] <galex-713> So I need to teach him how to use ssh?[20:06:32] <jimpop> ssh has encryption overhead[20:06:50] <galex-713> On HTTP that’s same thing with s/FTP/web server/[20:06:57] <jimpop> ... or just find better friends.....[20:07:14] <waldi> jimpop: neglectible[20:07:32] <galex-713> Oh, and why, in logs, postfix, when I set message_size_limit or mailbox_size_limit, say "Jun 21 19:42:09 server-713 postfix/local[17199]: fatal: bad numerical configuration: message_size_limit = 2147483648"[20:07:40] <waldi> galex-713: sftp and goot documentation exists[20:07:50] <galex-713> Too big?[20:07:53] <jimpop> galex-713: probably 32bit vs 64bit issue[20:08:05] <patdk-wk_> why are you sending 2gig emails?[20:08:15] <galex-713> Videos[20:08:17] <jimpop> he's emailing movies[20:08:34] <patdk-wk_> ya, there is bittorrent for that :)[20:08:53] <galex-713> In France Internet is spyed to stop to do that[20:09:11] <galex-713> So it’s better to not use bittorrent[20:09:12] <jimpop> haha, jokes on you. that happens everywhere[20:09:33] <patdk-wk_> this is why people have made huge vpn mesh networks[20:09:34] <galex-713> Yeah, but that’s more simple and secure to use email…[20:09:49] <patdk-wk_> email is simple + secure?[20:09:52] <galex-713> Why all email data is base64 encoded?[20:10:10] <patdk-wk_> galex-713, cause it's better than uuencoded[20:10:13] <galex-713> patdk-wk_, It isn’t?[20:10:24] <galex-713> uuencoded?[20:10:29] <UQlev> galex-713, for compatibility with sendmail[20:10:30] <jimpop> rot16 went out of style?[20:10:47] <galex-713> Ah… *compatibility*…[20:11:22] <galex-713> The reason of all computing problems…[20:11:24] <UQlev> galex-713, many old server understand only 7bit codes[20:11:41] <galex-713> In 2013?[20:11:54] <UQlev> still in 2013[20:12:17] <galex-713> So in 2013 we don’t make email evolve because some old servers doesn’t like it…[20:12:55] <galex-713> We could just use 7bit for 7bit servers, and 8bit for 8bit servers[20:13:15] <UQlev> galex-713, you can use 8 bit without encoding if you sure that on both sides will be 8bit enabled[20:13:39] <galex-713> That always should be…[20:13:57] <UQlev> galex-713, if you make a Law[20:13:57] <galex-713> On 7bit you can’t write french…[20:14:17] <galex-713> Well, you can, but not with ASCII[20:14:36] <UQlev> galex-713, fo Chinese even 8bits is not enough[20:14:48] <patdk-wk_> how can you make sure other side is 8bit enabled?[20:14:57] <galex-713> UQlev, multibyte encoding[20:15:00] <patdk-wk_> once you hit a 7bit server in the path, the mail would bounce[20:15:20] <galex-713> That should be a standard…[20:15:25] <patdk-wk_> you can't recode the email, that would kill dkim, and probably other things[20:15:29] <UQlev> patdk-wk_, he is going to send only with his friend[20:15:31] <galex-713> And even, base64 is less than 7bit[20:15:36] <galex-713> It’s 6bit[20:16:10] <galex-713> Only videos in some rare cases[20:16:28] <patdk-wk_> UQlev, I know that, but I mean in a general since[20:16:38] <patdk-wk_> why nothing assumes 8bit email[20:17:11] <patdk-wk_> just doing all this work to make huge 8bit email work between points a -> b[20:17:13] <galex-713> But why doesn’t that work with postfix? Is there a voluntary limit on message size?[20:17:17] <UQlev> galex-713, what is connection speed of your friend?[20:17:24] <patdk-wk_> seems like vpn, or https, or sftp, or anything else, would be so much better[20:17:36] <galex-713> Normally, 200Mio/s[20:17:48] <galex-713> For me too[20:17:55] <patdk-wk_> heh? you measure network speed in iops?[20:18:08] <galex-713> Mibi-octet[20:18:31] <galex-713> one octet is 8bits[20:18:35] <UQlev> galex-713, in both directions?[20:18:40] <galex-713> Err…[20:19:06] <galex-713> Old ADSL on new optic fiber…[20:19:22] <galex-713> Imagine that’s in both direction ^^"[20:19:44] <patdk-wk_> heh? adsl + fiber?[20:20:14] <galex-713> (It’s because France Telecom was bought by Orange and Orange doesn’t want)[20:20:32] <galex-713> (Money/politic story…)[20:21:33] *** rob0_ has quit IRC[20:22:20] *** rob0_ has joined #postfix[20:22:21] *** rob0_ has joined #postfix[20:23:12] <UQlev> galex-713, then if you both have public IP scp will be easiest and safest[20:24:14] <galex-713> Ok and what’s if my friend is on Windows? Or can’t use ssh for an other reason?[20:24:23] <patdk-wk_> use windows :)[20:24:31] *** shinao1 has quit IRC[20:24:38] <patdk-wk_> filezilla, or one of the other 100's of sftp programs[20:24:44] <galex-713> Ah… ok[20:24:45] <UQlev> galex-713, winscp is damn slow[20:25:33] <galex-713> Ok so you’re right…[20:26:12] <galex-713> Mail is not easy, simple or quick for large data…[20:27:22] <UQlev> galex-713, for large data best is UDP[20:27:46] <galex-713> Right too[20:28:27] <galex-713> Buuuut… can postfix do it or not?[20:28:32] <galex-713> Not?[20:28:47] <UQlev> galex-713, you will be 1st who will check it[20:28:58] <patdk-wk_> sctp :)[20:29:17] <galex-713> postfix says "Jun 21 19:42:09 server-713 postfix/local[17199]: fatal: bad numerical configuration: message_size_limit = 2147483648"[20:29:45] <patdk-wk_> galex-713, minus 1[20:30:29] <UQlev> galex-713, there are possibilities to kill mail queue and postal database of mail-client[20:30:49] <patdk-wk_> ya, spool will be an issue, alittle[20:30:56] <galex-713> (I would like make postfix accept large email, just to promote free software and self-hosting, to say “That’s a poor exemple because that’s useless, but with free-software/self-hosting, you CAN, while with proprietary software and commercial-hosting, you can’t”[20:31:04] <patdk-wk_> you will not be able to send mail if the spool drive gets < 1.5*message_size_limit[20:31:15] <patdk-wk_> so you need to always maintain 3gigs free :)[20:31:20] <UQlev> galex-713, will your friend run postix on windows?[20:31:29] <galex-713> No[20:31:43] <galex-713> It run on Windows?[20:31:50] * patdk-wk_ wonders if outlook supports 2gig emails[20:32:12] <galex-713> I know nobody who use outlook[20:32:27] <UQlev> patdk-wk_, outlook will die for sure[20:32:38] <patdk-wk_> the imap/pop3 server?[20:32:47] <galex-713> almost everybody use webmail…[20:33:07] <patdk-wk_> if they use webmail, then they are using http already[20:33:10] <patdk-wk_> why bother with email?[20:33:28] <patdk-wk_> upload to server, send url in email[20:34:34] <galex-713> Yes, but I’ve understood that that’s useless, that’s just for proof of the fact free-software and self-hosting allow to do everything (even absurd things) while proprietary software and commercial-hosting can’t[20:35:30] <patdk-wk_> heh? so?[20:35:31] *** krisfremen has quit IRC[20:35:36] <patdk-wk_> that is really far off topic in here[20:36:02] <galex-713> I would just know how to make message size unlimited on postfix (if that’s possible) ^^[20:36:09] *** Cromulent has quit IRC[20:38:03] <adaptr> you're emailing ridiculous files, aren't you ?[20:38:20] <galex-713> I *would emailing ridiculous files[20:38:48] <adaptr> you don't want to do that[20:39:00] <galex-713> That’s just for fact *to can*, to be able, just that, I will probably not use this feature.[20:39:08] <galex-713> Or only to proof I can[20:40:11] <galex-713> So is that possible on postfix?[20:40:46] <UQlev> galex-713, do you expect insurance or underwriting?[20:40:59] *** shinao1 has joined #postfix[20:41:02] <galex-713> yes[20:41:29] <galex-713> Well, I don’t *expect* but know that that’s insecure[20:42:12] <adaptr> I can' tmake heads nor tails of what you're typing. are you using some sort of broken keyboard ?[20:42:46] <rob0_> it's UTF8. I see it fine in this client ...[20:42:56] <rob0> but garbage in this one[20:43:20] <UQlev> galex-713, I afraid you will wait for long prior you fine another one with needed experience[20:43:24] <adaptr> hrm. I wonder if I've installed this box with UTF8 terminality or not[20:43:26] <galex-713> Ah maybe because I use typographical correct ' (’ instead of ')[20:43:49] <adaptr> galex-713: this is a text medium. ASCII serves everyone[20:44:23] <galex-713> Ok, I will just use ASCII[20:44:33] <rob0> galex-713, yes, the ' apostrophe is fine here :)[20:44:51] <adaptr> galex-713: I can see both 's here. so that's not what you used.[20:46:06] <galex-713> Maybe also ... character (…)[20:46:30] *** mechanicalduck has joined #postfix[20:47:01] <galex-713> Oh, and “” quotes (left double quote and right double quote characters)[20:47:35] <rob0_> yep, they're fine in my client with UTF-8[20:47:54] <galex-713> I think that’s all[20:48:12] <galex-713> oops *that's all[20:49:52] <galex-713> (sorry, in bépo keyboard, "’" character is more easy to use than "'" character, and it's in a more obvious place: the same of comma ",", in middle of keyboard, because typographically apostrophe is a high comma)[20:50:04] <galex-713> So, is that possible with postfix or not?[20:50:08] *** krisfremen has joined #postfix[20:50:08] *** krisfremen has joined #postfix[20:50:36] <galex-713> Oh… I have to go eat[20:56:49] <galex-713> I’m temporary come back[20:57:53] <galex-713> So there is a limit to message_size_limit? If there is one[20:57:59] *** mibofra has quit IRC[20:58:13] <adaptr> yes, there is a limit to message_size_limit.[20:58:29] <jelly-home> what's the limit on message_size_limit limit?[21:00:21] *** Cromulent has joined #postfix[21:00:49] <galex-713> Yes, what’s the limit of limit?[21:01:14] <adaptr> src/smtpd/smtpd.c:5220: VAR_MESSAGE_LIMIT, (unsigned long) var_message_limit);[21:01:46] <patdk-wk_> so likely he is running on 32bit os[21:01:57] <patdk-wk_> is atoi being used?[21:02:09] <adaptr> ...he who ?[21:02:23] <patdk-wk_> if it's defined as unsigned, but limited as signed[21:02:34] <patdk-wk_> something needs to read the text and make an int out of it[21:03:14] *** mibofra has joined #postfix[21:03:39] <patdk-wk_> ya, on my 64bit postfix 2.9.6, I have no issues[21:03:40] <galex-713> adaptr, I[21:03:49] <galex-713> on a 32bit postfix?[21:04:10] <patdk-wk_> yep, my postfix loves 10pb email limit[21:04:44] <patdk-wk_> but for fun, you can always just set it to unlimited[21:05:29] <galex-713> How?[21:05:39] <galex-713> message_size_limit=unlimited?[21:05:48] <galex-713> message_size_limit=0?[21:08:40] <adaptr> src/smtpd/smtpd.c:3101: if (var_message_limit > 0 && var_message_limit - state->act_size < len + 2) {[21:08:49] <adaptr> that is the relevant code.[21:19:21] <galex-713> Ok, so 0 work[21:22:27] <galex-713> So thx :)[21:22:31] *** galex-713 has left #postfix[21:28:44] *** midnightmagic has joined #postfix[21:29:44] <midnightmagic> Does anybody know if this is within-spec for a message header: Message-ID: =?UTF-8?Q?<comment-9844-887292113 at domain dot name.com>?=[21:30:17] <midnightmagic> According to RFC5322 no, but.. is this weird UTF-8 wrapper done anywhere?[21:34:23] *** {pj}^A__ has joined #postfix[21:37:08] *** Bry8Star has quit IRC[21:37:49] *** pajamian has quit IRC[21:48:00] *** Bry8Star has joined #postfix[22:02:03] *** sphenxes01 has joined #postfix[22:03:55] <Patrickdk> heh? that UTF-8 thing is standardized[22:04:01] <Patrickdk> is it valid on message-id, I don't know[22:05:30] *** sphenxes has quit IRC[22:08:19] <Patrickdk> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6532#page-5[22:09:17] <adaptr> midnightmagic: RFC2047 states that "encoding header fields is valid for any field that is defined as *text", whatever that means.[22:10:02] <adaptr> ah: 2. Any construct that uses atoms, including but not limited to the[22:10:04] <adaptr> local parts of addresses and Message-IDs.[22:10:06] <adaptr> and[22:10:15] <adaptr> 2. Any construct that uses atoms, including but not limited to the[22:10:22] <adaptr> 4. Domains.[22:10:27] <adaptr> that covers both ends[22:10:39] <adaptr> (they couldn't just say "message-id headers" ??)[22:10:43] <Patrickdk> what? I can't use my own custom @[22:10:57] <adaptr> midnightmagic: very legal. keep up with teh RFC dance![22:11:17] <adaptr> Patrickdk: YOU may not, indeed. it very clearly states EXCEPT PATRICKDK[22:11:40] <adaptr> Patrickdk: but it is a good point, since the example above encodes the whole header[22:11:52] <adaptr> Itested it on my box, and postfix doesn't complain[22:12:30] * Patrickdk wonders how postfix logs it[22:12:39] <Patrickdk> if it treats the whole thing as the message-id[22:12:44] <Patrickdk> or if it actually parses it[22:13:35] <adaptr> in cleanup, in case you actually want to do it[22:14:21] <adaptr> but anotehr good point, and I wondered about this as well. if there is a message-id, but it isn't really valid, does postfix ignore, or complain, or replace ?[22:14:31] <adaptr> lemme checkzorz[22:15:55] <adaptr> um. postfix is VERY tolerant, apparently[22:15:57] <midnightmagic> adaptr: Ah, I was *just* about to start reading 2047. I also found RFC6532 too, which suggests UTF-8 is now directly usable in any conformant 8-bit-safe enviro.[22:15:57] <adaptr> message-id: ^%#^%$&$&^%%(*&*^)*(*&%^#%^%^&%&*^([22:16:14] <Patrickdk> nice[22:16:14] <adaptr> Patrickdk: does that answer your question ? :P[22:16:31] <Patrickdk> no[22:16:37] <adaptr> I managed to omit all atoms, domanin-parts, and the @-sign[22:16:39] <Patrickdk> just says postfix doesn't check it[22:16:46] <midnightmagic> adaptr: I noticed also that http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6532#section-3.6 suggests keeping message-id 7-bit us-ascii-specific..[22:16:48] <adaptr> yeah, that's not really good, is it ?[22:16:51] <Patrickdk> doesn't say it if decodes the charset[22:17:04] <midnightmagic> adaptr: You have been extremely helpful, thank you.[22:17:15] <Patrickdk> but in logs, I was thinking amavis, as amavis logs the message-id[22:17:16] <adaptr> Patrickdk: the message-id above is invalid. whether it decodes it or not is irrelevant.[22:17:35] <Patrickdk> yes, but I sometimes use message-id to locate an email :)[22:17:43] <Patrickdk> would need to know if I have to decode it or not :)[22:18:01] <adaptr> I checked my mailstore. it is never encoded.[22:18:07] <adaptr> 118K+ messages[22:18:42] <midnightmagic> message-id is also used in References: and In-Reply-To: headers, and mail clients and automated systems will thread based on them.[22:19:18] <midnightmagic> adaptr: Yeah, some devs are being a little too paranoid in their mime-wrapping mechanisms.[22:19:20] *** UQlev has quit IRC[22:19:20] <adaptr> good point;l let me reply to one[22:20:25] <adaptr> References: ^%#^%$&$&^%%(*&*^)*(*&%^#%^%^&%&*^([22:20:29] <Patrickdk> adaptr, I have a lot of them[22:20:32] <adaptr> awesome. postfix really doesn't give a fuck.[22:20:53] <midnightmagic> <-- really loving his new postfix mail gateway.[22:21:16] <midnightmagic> the amount of things that I end up looking up, and then being pleasantly surprised about, just keeps growing every time I do it.[22:22:25] <midnightmagic> only disappointment is the apparent desolation in terms of population of people running their own systems these days. everyone just emigrated to gmail/et al.[22:22:44] <midnightmagic> or managed hosting..[22:22:56] *** master_of_master has joined #postfix[22:23:02] *** Cromulent has quit IRC[22:23:22] <adaptr> no, there's still plenty of people. not necessarily here, of course.[22:26:11] *** master_o1_master has quit IRC[22:31:33] *** mibofra has quit IRC[22:33:02] *** ced117 has joined #postfix[22:38:21] *** daguz has left #postfix[22:45:45] *** {pj}^A__ has quit IRC[22:46:03] *** pj has joined #postfix[23:03:23] *** shinao1 has quit IRC[23:14:43] *** snearch has quit IRC[23:15:10] *** snearch has joined #postfix[23:15:45] *** shinao1 has joined #postfix[23:35:55] *** wald00 has quit IRC[23:45:10] *** snearch has quit IRC[23:45:11] *** Ahti333 has quit IRC[23:45:41] *** smue has quit IRC[23:48:27] *** abyss has quit IRC[23:49:06] *** smue has joined #postfix[23:53:48] *** Ahti333 has joined #postfix[23:54:57] *** ced117 has quit IRC[23:55:49] *** cilly has quit IRC[23:57:01] *** cilly has joined #postfix