June 28, 2012 
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If I defer transport, send some mails with mutt and back to relayhost = smtp.whatever.com, sudo postqueue -f, some mails are not sent without any messages (I have to test in /var/log/mails.log). How do you use this function ?[13:08:54] *** Allex944 has joined #postfix[13:13:13] <Allex944> hi, I'm getting these kind of alerts:[13:13:14] <Allex944> /etc/aliases, line 4: record is in "key: value" format; is this an alias file?[13:13:16] <Allex944> in /etc/aliases is "postmaster:root"[13:13:19] <Allex944> i have read that it's bad format and should be as follow:[13:13:20] <Allex944> postmaster root - without ":"[13:13:22] <Allex944> further, i wonder, there shouldn't be any email adress? smt at domain dot tld? only aliases[13:14:07] <Natureshadow> Allex944: /etc/alias *is* an alias file and has to be in key: value format[13:14:30] <Natureshadow> Allex944: I assume you were doing postmap /etc/alias, which is wrong, do postalias /etc/alias[13:14:57] <Natureshadow> The meaning of the last part of your question is a complete mystery to me[13:15:00] <Allex944> yes[13:15:15] <Natureshadow> */etc/aliases for that matter[13:18:35] *** falu has left #postfix[13:20:18] <rob0> !newaliases[13:20:18] <knoba> rob0: "newaliases" : the command you need to run when you edited your /etc/aliases (it will usually create an aliases.db from it)[13:21:43] <Allex944> ok it's done[13:22:03] <Allex944> so it's no problem to use an email adress there, isn't it[13:22:51] <rob0> don't guess, look at the aliases(5) manual[13:24:12] <Allex944> ok[13:27:52] *** Allex944 has left #postfix[13:38:22] *** shinao1 has joined #postfix[13:38:26] *** Kyouma has joined #postfix[13:56:50] *** shinao1 has quit IRC[14:23:49] *** ayaka has joined #postfix[14:24:15] <ayaka> http://paste.debian.net/176798/ ritsuko postfix/master[5503]: fatal: /etc/postfix/master.cf: line 66: field "private": bad value: "0"[14:24:54] <ayaka> but line 66 is # maybe caused by dovecot settting in master ?[14:27:01] <lunaphyte_> comment it out and see[14:27:04] <ayaka> thank you I find out[14:28:28] *** Section1 has joined #postfix[14:34:32] <ayaka> connect to smtp.gmail.com[2001:4860:8005::6d]:465: Network is unreachable how about this ? is it my dns problem or postfix listen problem?[14:35:46] <Dominian> Well, did you hard code the smtp.gmail.com ipv6 address or something?[14:35:54] <Dominian> smtp.gmail.com is an alias for gmail-smtp-msa.l.google.com.[14:35:57] <Dominian> gmail-smtp-msa.l.google.com has IPv6 address 2001:4860:800a::6c[14:36:00] <rob0> Don't use ipv6 if you don't have ipv6 from your ISP.[14:36:27] <sep> or a ipv6 tunnel[14:38:43] *** pluesch0r has joined #postfix[14:39:47] <pluesch0r> hi everybody. i'd like to track the "life" of each mail .. i.e. i'd like to log into a database when a mail was delivered, when the delivery attempt failed, with what code it failed, when the mail went into the deferred queue etc .. how would i go about doing that? is there some hook that i can link a script to?[14:40:15] <rob0> !logs[14:40:16] <knoba> rob0: "logs" : postfix logs to the mail facility of syslog. You can usually find them with ls /var/log/mail* otherwise something like grep -i `postconf -h syslog_facility` /path/to/syslog_config_file should tell you where logs are going. also see !no_logs and !have2mung[14:41:09] <pluesch0r> rob0: right. i don't want to parse the log files or fool around with syslog filtering. any other way to do this?[14:41:24] <rob0> no[14:42:00] <pluesch0r> hah. i love how a small request almost always turns into a huge hackathon.[14:42:05] <pluesch0r> rob0: thanks. :)[14:42:23] <rob0> You might consider a SQL backend to your syslogd.[14:42:33] <pluesch0r> rob0: yeah, i know.[14:42:53] <rob0> good luck, have fun :)[14:42:55] <pluesch0r> i was just hoping for a solution that did not require another cog in the machine. ;)[14:54:33] *** famicom has joined #postfix[14:57:06] *** jense has joined #postfix[15:02:41] *** ayaka has left #postfix[15:03:43] *** TomHome has quit IRC[15:04:11] *** ChaozZBubi is now known as chaozzbubi[15:19:58] *** TRUNASUCI has joined #postfix[15:35:59] *** pluesch0r has quit IRC[15:47:02] <tharkun> /clear[16:05:58] *** cps0 has joined #postfix[16:09:09] *** wdp_ has quit IRC[16:11:01] *** datadevil has joined #postfix[16:13:07] <datadevil> Hi. I'm struggling with a complicated setup where we're moving to google apps, but also want to have mail delivered to our current system. I have forwarding setup per user using .forward files, which works, but now if people use Google's mail within our organization it does not get out of the google system. I found that I could forward from Google, but then I'd get into a mail loop. Is there any way to *not* forward mail again that's forw[16:13:45] <datadevil> the idea is that we end up mail being delivered in the 2 systems, which works *unless* you mail to users from within google's system[16:15:31] <tharkun> datadevil: Your idea is quite clear. I do not understand why would you have two mailservers with the same information?[16:16:26] <TRUNASUCI> :)[16:18:42] *** UQlev has joined #postfix[16:19:14] <datadevil> tharkun: management wants it :-P[16:19:37] <thumbs> management has no idea wtf they need :)[16:19:52] <datadevil> think the idea is that google apps is handier, and our own smtp is good for archiving[16:19:53] <tharkun> datadevil: Ask management the underlying idea, since doing that will make google service useless[16:20:08] <datadevil> tharkun: /\[16:20:31] <thumbs> datadevil: most desktop apps can archive emails just fine :)[16:20:35] <tharkun> datadevil: since i suspect you can't mess with google mail servers everything will have to be runned through your mailserver.[16:20:47] <datadevil> yeah it is at the moment[16:21:15] <datadevil> so MX points to us, then I have a subdomain (apps.ourdomain.com) which some of the users have in their .forward[16:21:37] <thumbs> datadevil: you use use the always bcc feature, I suppose[16:22:24] <datadevil> thumbs: tbh, not sure. I have a .forward file like this:[16:22:30] <datadevil> \local_mailbox_name[16:22:36] <thumbs> *can*[16:22:39] <datadevil> user at apps dot ourdomain.com[16:23:22] <datadevil> always bcc from google apps?[16:24:09] <thumbs> datadevil: I thought the goal was to archive emails automatically?[16:25:29] * tharkun is no google apps expert.[16:27:46] <datadevil> thumbs: goal is to have users use google apps, and to have the email stored in our own smtp for archival reasons. Another reason we forward from our own system instead of using google apps directly is that we have a lot of mail for our domain which does not need to go to google apps, like automated mail handling from webscripts and so on[16:28:27] <tharkun> datadevil: so your ultimate use of google apps would be a smarthost?[16:28:44] *** Eagleman7 has joined #postfix[16:30:11] <datadevil> tharkun: no, as the client for users, so they can connect their smartphones there, or use the outlook connector, or use the webclient (gmail)[16:30:37] <Eagleman7> Hello, i am unable to send e-mail, i was able to a few weeks aigo. Any idea how to debug where it goes wrong?[16:30:42] <datadevil> so I guess it's google apps for general purposes, and our own smtp for archival and for 'special mailboxes[16:30:59] <datadevil> got myself in a right old mess with this setup :-P[16:31:35] <thumbs> !t Eagleman7 welcome[16:31:35] <knoba> thumbs: Error: "t" is not a valid command.[16:31:40] <thumbs> !tell Eagleman7 welcome[16:31:40] <knoba> Eagleman7: "welcome" : welcome to #postfix! if you're joining for the first time, or are new to irc, the first thing you'll want to do is read the channel topic (/topic). it includes crucial instructions on how to effectively ask for help here, and what data you should include with your questions. the degree of success you'll have is directly related to how effectively you're able to follow those guidelines.[16:31:43] <tharkun> datadevil: take a look at google apps if they have an always_bcc feature so you can have user_archive at your home server[16:31:49] *** nephfl has joined #postfix[16:32:33] <nephfl> anybody know if there is a way for postfix to route mail based on its own deferred queue size? like if the queue is a certain size, then send aol mail to another mail server?[16:33:56] <Eagleman7> http://pastebin.com/vFG3XLFd[16:34:55] <Eagleman7> I cant think of any more information to provide[16:35:50] <Eagleman7> I've forwarded tcp port 25 on my router[16:36:26] <thumbs> Eagleman7: how about relevant logs?[16:36:51] <Eagleman7> I dont know which ones are relevant[16:37:43] <thumbs> Eagleman7: the ones that illustrate your problem![16:37:52] <thumbs> !tell Eagleman7 relevant_logs[16:37:52] <knoba> Eagleman7: "relevant_logs" : Relevant logs are mail.* syslog Postfix logs (NOT verbose, see !verbose) which show the entire handling of a single mail which illustrates the issue with which you want help. Random selections from your mail log might not do. IMAP/POP3 daemons and external delivery agents typically log to the same facility (mail); those are usually not relevant here.[16:38:27] <Eagleman7> Where can i find those logs?[16:38:37] <tharkun> /var/log/mail.*[16:38:58] <tharkun> WAG debian derivative right?[16:39:22] *** rzimmermann has quit IRC[16:40:57] <datadevil> tharkun: creating a seperate mailbox is an option in the end yeah, like user_archive or so without the forward, and then auto forward to that from google mail, which is possible[16:41:27] <Eagleman7> thumbs here could be some usefull information: http://pastebin.com/PPDXyzSZ[16:41:27] <datadevil> thanks for that suggestion, but is it not possible to break the forward chain with some rule in .forward or so?[16:41:33] <tharkun> datadevil: there you have it. Not the best of practices but you problem is solved[16:41:54] <oles> hi, where by default postfix store email database?[16:42:29] <thumbs> oles: where you told it to.[16:42:29] <tharkun> Eagleman7: 550 blacklisted IP found in zen.spamhaus.org[16:42:37] <tharkun> tharkun: go fix it[16:42:54] <thumbs> tharkun: go fix it![16:42:57] <oles> thumbs, by default it dont ask it[16:43:03] <Eagleman7> tharkun yeh i saw that to, i have no idea what that is[16:43:12] <thumbs> oles: wherever your distro or admin set it to, then![16:43:15] <tharkun> Eagleman7: you are pointed as a source of spam[16:43:20] <Eagleman7> wtf[16:43:31] <datadevil> tharkun: true, only have this transition period where I can't do this..[16:43:34] <Eagleman7> by who?[16:43:52] <tharkun> Eagleman7: beats me go to zen.spamhaus.org to find out more about it[16:44:26] <oles> tharkun, what option i should check ?[16:44:40] <oles> thumbs, main.cf?[16:44:48] *** Jakey has left #postfix[16:44:48] <Eagleman7> tharkun so who are zen.spamhaus.org ?[16:44:50] <tharkun> datadevil: since admin wants a flawed usage of google apps, tell them what the problem is and what would be a good solution for it[16:44:55] <Eagleman7> some sort of organisation?[16:45:03] <tharkun> !tell Eagleman7 rbl[16:45:03] <knoba> Eagleman7: "rbl" : short for realtime black list . RBLs are DNS zones that can help your mail server to determine if an IP address is trusted. It's a great way to fight spam. See http://www.spamhaus.org/zen/ http://www.au.sorbs.net/ http://www.spamcop.net/[16:45:17] <Eagleman7> this is fantastic[16:45:42] <thumbs> oles: see postconf -n[16:45:43] <tharkun> Eagleman7: Are you on a dynamic ip?[16:45:57] <Eagleman7> tharkun its been static for around 2 months now[16:46:10] <Eagleman7> its recieved by dhcp but it stays the same for a very long time[16:46:15] *** tjikkun_work has quit IRC[16:46:20] <thumbs> Eagleman7: it's on a DHCP range - enough said[16:46:30] <thumbs> Eagleman7: don't run a mail server on a dynamic range :)[16:46:38] <Eagleman7> I cant, its at home[16:46:38] <tharkun> Eagleman7: none the less it is dynamic so you never know when you are going to have a new ip with an awfull reputation[16:46:48] <tharkun> !tell Eagleman7 vps[16:46:48] <knoba> Eagleman7: "vps" : A Virtual Private Server is an affordable alternative to running a mailserver at home with a consumer-grade ISP connection. See also !port_25_block and !pbl[16:46:52] <thumbs> Eagleman7: right. Don't run a mail server at home.[16:47:06] <Eagleman7> tharkun i spent 300 euro to buy a server like this[16:47:08] <tharkun> !tell Eagleman7 googleapps[16:47:09] <knoba> Eagleman7: "googleapps" : Google Apps - http://www.google.com/a/ - A free service provided by Google to have your email and other services hosted by them[16:47:14] <Eagleman7> there should be other solutions[16:47:17] *** Section1 has quit IRC[16:47:24] <thumbs> Eagleman7: yes. Don't run a mail server from your home connection.[16:47:28] <thumbs> :)[16:47:40] <tharkun> Eagleman7: rent a vps use it as a smarthost and use your server as a mailstore[16:47:50] <Eagleman7> no way[16:47:56] <thumbs> Eagleman7: no way?[16:47:59] <tharkun> Eagleman7: why?[16:48:00] <thumbs> Eagleman7: yes way.[16:48:10] <Eagleman7> i cant afford to pay those thing each month[16:48:20] <thumbs> Eagleman7: then don't run a mail server :)[16:48:25] <Eagleman7> btw, eagleman.net is not listed in the DBL[16:48:27] <tharkun> Eagleman7: how much do you spend on Power for your server?[16:48:32] <thumbs> Eagleman7: alternately, google apps is free for a small number of mailboxes[16:48:48] <Eagleman7> Yeh i want google to search trough my mail[16:48:48] <datadevil> tharkun: thinking procmail might be a solution[16:48:55] <oles> thumbs, and the name of option?[16:49:07] <thumbs> Eagleman7: suit yourself, then![16:49:17] <thumbs> Eagleman7: you can't have your cake and eat it too[16:49:28] <tharkun> datadevil: I do not use procmail. You do have to make it clear to management that the more they use google the less control they have over their mail.[16:50:26] <Eagleman7> I first need to read how this spamhouse shit works[16:50:29] <datadevil> true[16:50:31] <Eagleman7> getting a bit mad now[16:50:49] <thumbs> Eagleman7: you can't host a mail server on a dynamic IP range, period[16:50:52] <tharkun> Eagleman7: no need for that. Frustrating at most.[16:51:03] <thumbs> Eagleman7: spamhouse will not remove you from the blacklist.[16:51:06] <Eagleman7> Just need some more information[16:51:16] <thumbs> Eagleman7: regarding?[16:51:27] <Eagleman7> spamhouse and dynamic ip's[16:52:01] <Eagleman7> Cant i register an static ip from my ISP?[16:52:09] <thumbs> Eagleman7: they block dynamic IP ranges since every spammer in his basement could run a server[16:52:12] <thumbs> Eagleman7: ask them![16:52:20] <tharkun> Eagleman7: hosting a mailserver on a dynamic ip address has the problem that ip's change with time. One period of time its you. A respectfull mailadmin, next period of time is Morgan the pirate, a well known spammer[16:52:35] <Eagleman7> 50 cents for a minute calling, i love my isp[16:52:49] <thumbs> Eagleman7: stop whining here, please.[16:52:58] <tharkun> Eagleman7: there are vps that costs as low as 5$ a month[16:53:16] <Eagleman7> I bought this server so i could stop paying for a vps[16:53:31] <tharkun> Eagleman7: Next time ask before you shop :)[16:53:36] <thumbs> Eagleman7: get your money back :)[16:53:43] <Eagleman7> lol[16:54:12] <thumbs> Eagleman7: I'm serious.[16:54:20] <Eagleman7> where can i get a 8gb server with 6 tb of space for 3.5 euro a month[16:54:36] <Eagleman7> I cant[16:54:37] <thumbs> Eagleman7: nowhere, presumably.[16:54:49] <thumbs> Eagleman7: again, you can't have your cake and eat it too.[16:55:13] <jduggan> Eagleman7: but now you can buy a really really cheap inexpensive vps with 500mhz and 10gb space to route your email[16:55:48] <jduggan> Eagleman7: why dont you relay through your ISPs smtp server?[16:55:58] <thumbs> Eagleman7: besides, you don't need 8GB of RAM to run a smarthost.[16:56:09] <thumbs> jduggan: that would be too logical :)[16:56:12] <Eagleman7> virtual machines and stuff[16:56:58] <Eagleman7> ANyways, i have to go look for a solution[16:57:00] <thumbs> Eagleman7: use your ISP's as a relayhost[16:57:08] <Eagleman7> That could be 1 of them[16:57:11] <thumbs> Eagleman7: there. Problem solved.[16:57:30] <Eagleman7> And what about recieving e-mail[16:57:36] <Eagleman7> will that cause problems to?[16:57:44] <thumbs> no.[16:58:00] <thumbs> Eagleman7: to receive emails, run a real mail server (not on a dynamic range)[16:58:14] <thumbs> Eagleman7: again, google apps is free for a small number of mailboxes[16:58:20] <tharkun> Eagleman7: as long as your mx records are straight no problemo[16:58:44] <tharkun> Which will have to be updated everytime you change your ip . . .[16:58:55] <Eagleman7> thumbs i dont want to be dependent on a company that even scans trough my e-mails[16:59:08] <Eagleman7> tharkun my ip is rarely changing[16:59:09] <thumbs> Eagleman7: then get a static IP.[16:59:29] <thumbs> Eagleman7: your IP, while being fairly static, will NEVER be removed from the blacklist.[16:59:33] <tharkun> Eagleman7: but it is. Get a static IP as thumbs suggested[16:59:37] <thumbs> Eagleman7: never. Ever.[16:59:56] <Eagleman7> I know[16:59:56] <thumbs> Eagleman7: you might have to pay for a business grade connection, too :)[17:00:03] <lunaphyte_> whether or not your address "changes" is immaterial.[17:00:13] <lunaphyte_> it is a simple function of classification.[17:00:15] <lunaphyte_> that's it.[17:00:17] <thumbs> Eagleman7: so again, why not get a VPS? It'll be cheaper than a business grade connection[17:00:17] <Eagleman7> Why not get directly connected to the internet[17:00:23] <thumbs> Eagleman7: sigh.[17:00:25] <lunaphyte_> you either have a dynamic address, or a static address.[17:00:33] <thumbs> Eagleman7: learn networking basics :)[17:00:46] <Eagleman7> I am[17:00:51] <lunaphyte_> i used to have a "business class" internet connection. now i have a vps. i should have done that a long long time ago.[17:01:14] <Eagleman7> thumbs i'm currently in this cisco course[17:01:23] <thumbs> Eagleman7: well, you need to learn faster then :)[17:01:35] <Eagleman7> Well i've already completed CCNA 1[17:01:53] <thumbs> Eagleman7: so your current cheapest solution is to get a cheap VPS for your mail server.[17:01:56] *** daelras has joined #postfix[17:02:00] <tharkun> Eagleman7: ok you know your problem you have your options. Pick one and commit to it.[17:02:01] <thumbs> Eagleman7: run your VMs at home as you want.[17:02:04] <Eagleman7> or the static ip from my ISP[17:02:14] <Eagleman7> i will try to call them and see if its possible[17:02:17] <thumbs> ok.[17:03:07] <tharkun> lunaphyte_: I want to run a postfix instance having AD as a back end. What google term should i use? I'm totally lost on this one[17:03:16] <lunaphyte_> use ldap[17:03:43] *** Silowyi has joined #postfix[17:03:49] <tharkun> lunaphyte_: They have AD running at the moment. Maybe i will be able to convince them to switch to slapd later.[17:04:15] <lunaphyte_> you can communicate with ad using ldap. using openldap would be better though, yes.[17:04:48] <tharkun> hmm ok got the idea. Thanks[17:04:55] <datadevil> tharkun: might have found a solution: I forward from google to the same account *without* letting it change SMTP envelope. I see the email arrive at our postfix, and that forwards it too but google doesn't forward put it in the users' box again, probably recognizing the loop...(?)[17:06:49] <tharkun> datadevil: sounds like a hackish unstable solution. Check for stability. If it complies your criterion to have a sound sleep at night you are all set. :--)[17:07:19] <datadevil> tharkun: sounds very hackish indeed[17:09:40] <Eagleman7> thumbs i called the specialists from my ISP but they had no idea what i was talking about[17:09:51] <Eagleman7> They dont even know what a static ip is...[17:09:54] <rob0> haha[17:10:35] <tharkun> Eagleman7: change ISP[17:10:41] <thumbs> :)[17:10:44] <Eagleman7> xD[17:10:52] <Eagleman7> ADSL is the only solution then[17:10:54] <Eagleman7> no thanks[17:15:23] *** Southron has joined #postfix[17:15:44] <Eagleman7> Only possible with a business connection[17:16:03] <nephfl> what is the fastest way to get queue stats from postfix?[17:16:12] <tharkun> mailq[17:16:38] <sysmonk> mailq isn't really the fastest[17:16:43] <sysmonk> but depends on what is needed[17:17:29] * tharkun greets sysmonk "LONG TIME NO SEE ME FRIND"[17:17:45] <nephfl> I have rerouted all of my outbound mail through haproxy which allows me to direct tcp connections based on a "weight" value that I can change...I would like to direct mail to the machine with the smallest queue[17:17:50] *** chaozzbubi is now known as ChaozZBubi[17:17:56] <nephfl> but, that means frequent sampling[17:18:06] <nephfl> so, I need the most efficient way to check the queue[17:18:55] <nephfl> then, I need to consolidate the info someplace, then scale the results between 0 and 100 relative to each other, then feed them into the proxy socket for weights[17:19:11] <nephfl> so, step one is to get the data[17:20:39] <sysmonk> nephfl: based on what? active queue? deferred queue? rand() ?[17:21:56] <nephfl> I'm thinking deferred...the biggest thing that backs up the servers is aol and yahoo throttling and backing up the defferred queue... if I load balance by that, it may be able to minimize deferred traffic[17:21:57] *** tr-808 has quit IRC[17:22:17] *** tr-808_ has joined #postfix[17:22:17] *** tr-808 has joined #postfix[17:22:32] <nephfl> thereby decreasing overall delivery times especially for those providers[17:23:36] <nephfl> right now, I'm doing an unweighted round-robin[17:23:56] <tharkun> nephfl: Have you measssured your performace?[17:24:09] <nephfl> in what way?[17:24:47] <tharkun> How much throughput you have to those servers, what amount of traffic each relayhost is sending to each destination. An overall characterization of your system[17:24:52] <nephfl> I use postfix-logwatch for a daily review...and I watch the logs for issues... and watch the system performance[17:25:26] <nephfl> I also monitor the size of the spool/queue[17:25:31] <tharkun> nephfl: How do you expect to improve a system if you do not measure it. You can't control that which you do not measure.[17:26:38] <nephfl> I have a few basic scripts I run to get a few stats from the logs...[17:27:30] <nephfl> what metrics or other info do you consider necessary to determine performance?[17:28:05] *** tr-808_ has quit IRC[17:28:05] *** tr-808 has quit IRC[17:28:17] <nephfl> I am new to mail on this scale...I am used to a more break-fix approach[17:28:31] *** tr-808 has joined #postfix[17:28:51] *** tr-808_ has joined #postfix[17:28:52] <tharkun> nephfl: YOU are the one running the system. YOU are looking to improve performance of your system. YOU have come to great lengths to achieve it. Give yourself some credit. Measure that which you try to improve[17:30:04] <tharkun> nephfl: That is the first thing you should understand about controlling a system. Even MBAs know about that.[17:30:25] <nephfl> I need to manage my overall queue sizes to keep one system from backing up and overloading and reduce the time it takes to churn through the throttling companies like aol and yahoo..[17:30:50] <nephfl> those things I currently monitor by monitoring queue size on disk, and characterizing what is causing it by greping the logs[17:30:56] <tharkun> nephfl: Wrong, you need to increase the overall throughput of your system to those providers[17:31:44] <tharkun> nephfl: the queue sizes and all the other stuff is dependant on how much it gets delivered on a first basis[17:31:46] <nephfl> we have enrolled in the FBLs and are working on establishing a reputation with the new servers...[17:31:58] <nephfl> true[17:32:12] <nephfl> but, I'm having trouble finding good info on how to maximize that throughput[17:32:28] <nephfl> the only approach I know at the moment is to spread the load amongst the servers[17:32:59] <tharkun> nephfl: ahh, that is the next step. If you throttle yourselve you usually have a higher speed than the one you get from triggering one of their alarms[17:33:22] <nephfl> this would be easier if AOL simply said, we prefer a specific rate[17:33:29] *** tr-808 has quit IRC[17:33:57] <tharkun> "IF good stuff on life were easy, anyone would do it."[17:34:03] <nephfl> lol[17:34:21] *** tr-808_ has quit IRC[17:34:45] <nephfl> in this case it would be to their benefit... instead of having me hammer their server and having to throttle, I can simply set the servers to play nice with theirs...[17:35:09] *** tr-808 has joined #postfix[17:35:22] <nephfl> anyway...so, you think reducing the rate sent to aol is the way to go...any idea what a good starting point is to keep from getting throttled?[17:35:55] <tharkun> nephfl: take a look at the rate they've setted up for you and reduce it a bit. Then increase it a bit overtime.[17:36:12] <rob0> I think a feedback loop with AOL might be the way to go, but I don't know the whole story.[17:36:19] <nephfl> first, I would need to set up a specific set of options for those providers[17:36:29] *** tr-808_ has joined #postfix[17:36:35] <nephfl> we already have a fbl with aol[17:37:51] <patdk-wk> heh, my most pointless feedback loops are with yahoo and juno[17:38:07] <patdk-wk> they always feed back spam that didn't even come from me[17:39:08] <nephfl> think load balancing by a du of the deferred directory would cause a problem or help spread the defferred mail and decrease its time to trickle out?[17:39:26] <nephfl> our FBLs are set automatically, I havent even looked at them[17:40:03] <nephfl> they are handled by windows servers...[17:40:05] *** tr-808 has quit IRC[17:40:53] *** tr-808 has joined #postfix[17:41:26] <tharkun> nephfl: I don't know much about fbl or stuff relevant to that. I think it is time to get your hands dirty on that and take a look at those. There might be some info there that will make your life easier.[17:41:35] <Eagleman7> tharkun the business thing isnt working out, so i could use googles services or use my ISP his smtp?[17:41:51] <rob0> !fcrdns[17:41:52] <knoba> rob0: "fcrdns" : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_Confirmed_reverse_DNS : your IP address should resolve to $myhostname, which in turn should resolve back to your IP. This is very important if you want big sites to accept your mail. If you can't have it from your ISP, see !relayhost[17:42:06] <rob0> ^^ that should also refer to !vps[17:42:22] <tharkun> Eagleman7: yes, it is up to you to do it. Beyond the scope of postfix.[17:42:24] *** tr-808_ has quit IRC[17:42:39] <Eagleman7> aha[17:42:45] <tharkun> tr-808: could you fix your connection please[17:43:13] *** tr-808_ has joined #postfix[17:44:24] <nephfl> so, is there a problem with using du to find queue size rather than mailq ?[17:46:08] *** tr-808 has quit IRC[17:47:09] *** tr-808 has joined #postfix[17:47:35] <UQlev> nephfl: I have not tried it but I guess du will work slower than mailq or postqueue[17:48:53] *** tr-808_ has quit IRC[17:49:09] <nephfl> why would it be slower? seems like looking at filesystem would be faster than listing all of the mail[17:49:50] *** tr-808_ has joined #postfix[17:49:56] <UQlev> nephfl: I bet postfix queue is indexed[17:50:05] <nephfl> hmm[17:50:40] <nephfl> I have seen the queue sizes grow to 60 or 80 gigs then any mailq or du crawls[17:50:57] <nephfl> but with load balancing, that shouldnt happen[17:51:34] *** Cerise has quit IRC[17:52:02] <UQlev> nephfl: regret I have no experience of big servers[17:52:14] *** tr-808 has quit IRC[17:53:07] *** tr-808 has joined #postfix[17:53:12] *** Cerise has joined #postfix[17:55:11] *** tr-808_ has quit IRC[17:56:10] *** tr-808_ has joined #postfix[18:03:14] *** jonez has quit IRC[18:09:26] <patdk-wk> nephfl, du won't be accurate[18:09:32] <patdk-wk> cause it counts directory size also[18:09:50] <patdk-wk> and once you have 1M deferred emails, your directories will grow to a few megs probably, and will never shrink[18:10:35] <patdk-wk> 80gigs of email in the queue?[18:10:39] *** datadevil has quit IRC[18:10:57] <patdk-wk> I die if I ever have >100megs, and it only gets to 1gig if there are serious issues[18:16:25] *** jonez has joined #postfix[18:22:15] *** UQlev has quit IRC[18:23:13] <nephfl> Well, I've definitely gotten the queues down and hope that we can keep them down...but holidays really cause a huge spike...and previously, there was no load balancing, so if one middleware server decided to send a ton of mail, it sent it through one mail server[18:23:30] <nephfl> I think the load balancer will make it night and day[18:23:45] <nephfl> that and we have tripled our number of servers for fourth of july[18:31:28] <nephfl> looks like my postfix has no qshape tool... did they do away with it?[18:33:56] <patdk-wk> no[18:34:03] <patdk-wk> though some people package it up by itself[18:36:25] *** uqlev has joined #postfix[18:36:26] *** oles has quit IRC[18:41:36] *** phantasm66 has joined #postfix[18:45:13] <tharkun> nephfl: ls -lah /usr/sbin/qshape[18:45:22] <tharkun> Sometimes it is only available to root[18:46:43] <phantasm66> hello there.... if i want to disable connection caching for a specific internal relay (it is a DNS roundrobin and needs to obey the rotation correctly).. would this do the trick:[18:47:00] <phantasm66> smtp_connection_cache_destinations = !my-internal-relay.com[18:47:12] <phantasm66> ?[18:53:27] <tharkun> phantasm66: IIRC you can insert some SQL magic in that. check the appropiat snipet of man 5 postconf[18:56:59] <rob0> CONNECTION_CACHE_README.html might be of interest[18:58:28] <phantasm66> tharkun: SQL magic? not following you.....[18:58:53] <tharkun> check the page rob0 suggested[18:59:20] <phantasm66> rob0: yeah.. i get the whole on-demand thing when active queue holds alot for the same destination... etc.. all i want to do is make sure connection caching does not happen.. ever.. for an internal relay FQDN (which is a DNS round robin)[19:00:03] <phantasm66> everything else can stay as it is (defaults)[19:00:43] <rob0> postconf.5.html#smtp_connection_cache_destinations <-- try that too, I don't see "!pattern" listed there, do you?[19:00:57] <phantasm66> that README mentions how to enable it, enable it per destination.. but makes no mention of how to exclude a destination from ever using connection caching[19:02:10] <rob0> I'd guess that such a feature does not exist.[19:02:15] <phantasm66> i don't see a "!pattern" there.. but i see Weitse mention it here:[19:02:17] <phantasm66> http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.mail.postfix.user/188231[19:02:28] <phantasm66> so.. i am curious[19:02:42] <rob0> aha, so that might be a documentation bug[19:02:45] <rob0> !tias[19:02:45] <knoba> rob0: "tias" : Try It And See[19:03:00] <phantasm66> i suppose i could just try it out and watch the 'conn_use' in the logs for that relay=[19:03:06] <phantasm66> yeah.. ok.. will do[19:03:45] <phantasm66> if it works, would it be worthwhile to let you know? (maybe slap something in a doc or README) ?[19:03:53] <phantasm66> ps.. i am postfix 2.9.3[19:04:16] <rob0> I'm pretty confident that if Wietse suggests it, it will work.[19:04:24] <phantasm66> yeah..[19:06:13] <tharkun> phantasm66: I've come to learn that Wietse sometimes spreads non official documentation on the mailing lists :-)[19:07:11] <phantasm66> there's alot to cover..... so, makes sense that some things might not make it into the docs...[19:07:18] <phantasm66> thanks alot guys[19:10:37] * tharkun wonders what would the size of logs be on an 80 gig email queue[19:12:17] *** wdp_ has joined #postfix[19:12:39] *** uqlev has quit IRC[19:20:06] *** daelras has quit IRC[19:25:56] *** cps0 has quit IRC[19:29:21] *** ced117 has joined #postfix[19:29:21] *** ced117 has joined #postfix[19:35:53] *** Steve_The_Pirate has joined #postfix[19:40:35] *** fahmad has joined #postfix[19:40:39] <fahmad> Hello[19:40:39] <fahmad> Can someone please tell me how can i replace 199.191.100.252 in header without changing other things as these values changes automatically, http://pastie.org/private/jzrnaiq8tsxem9log24srq[19:40:46] <phantasm66> strange.. even after a full-on restart of postfix... with 'smtp_connection_cache_destinations = !internal22.herrigan.sys'[19:41:23] <phantasm66> i still see conn_use=24 (etc..) relay=internal22.herrigan.sys log lines[19:41:43] <phantasm66> this obviously makes round robin'ing useless[19:42:02] <tharkun> TTLs?[19:42:36] <rob0> fahmad, you want to change gmail's header? Why? (How do you think you can?)[19:43:32] <rob0> a better question:[19:43:34] <phantasm66> tharkun: i would think the bang (!) would eliminate the reference to any other scache parameters[19:43:38] <rob0> !tell fahmad goal[19:43:38] <knoba> fahmad: "goal" : describe your goal, not what you think the solution is[19:44:08] *** Rich_Morin_ has left #postfix[19:44:28] <tharkun> phantasm66: Beeing honest I'm out of my depth on your isue IIRC round robin is a DNS hack to do some type of load balancing[19:44:42] <fahmad> knoba: my goal is to change only ip in header not other values[19:45:02] <phantasm66> tharkun: yeah[19:45:02] <fahmad> rob0: not gmail header just want to change my smtp ip[19:45:22] <rob0> So get a different IP address. You cannot hide what your IP is.[19:46:25] <rob0> phantasm66, my final WAG on the matter would be to add [], "smtp_connection_cache_destinations = ![internal22.herrigan.sys]"[19:46:31] <tharkun> phantasm66: scroll back someone used haproxy to do tcp loadbalancing, you might benefit from his discussion[19:46:38] <fahmad> basically my smtp is listening on different ip[19:46:47] <fahmad> but i am allowed to send ip from main ip only[19:46:51] <fahmad> so i want to hide main ip[19:46:55] <phantasm66> yeah.. i/we use haproxy here too (mostly for our RabbitMQ AMQP mirrors)[19:47:07] <rob0> !smtp_bind_address[19:47:07] <knoba> rob0: "smtp_bind_address" : a configuration parameter in the main.cf: An optional numerical network address that the SMTP client should bind to when making a connection.[19:47:23] <tharkun> phantasm66: sorry, thats about all my knowledge thus far on that type of isues[19:47:29] <phantasm66> rob0: ok.. i'll give that a whirl[19:47:36] <phantasm66> tharkun: thanks too[19:48:26] <fahmad> rob0: did that but it showing my main ip address[19:48:47] <fahmad> as i mentioned i am not allowed to send email from my other public ips i have to use it[19:49:03] <fahmad> and then when email sent from my postfix it will show my main server ip address[19:49:49] *** robinho86 has joined #postfix[19:49:57] <tharkun> fahmad: So what is the problem?[19:50:52] <fahmad> tharkun: let me explain suppose i have public ip addresses 202.xxx.xxx.100-110 and i have main ip address 202.61.192.102[19:52:55] <fahmad> i used inet_interfaces = 202.xxx.xxx.100 and smtp_bind_address = 202.61.192.102 and pointed my mx to mail.xxxxx.biz which is pointed to 202.xxx.xxx.100 but when email goes out it showed mail.xxxxxx.biz have ip 202.61.192.102[19:52:59] <fahmad> i hope you understand now[19:53:27] <fahmad> i just want to replace that ip address from 202.61.192.102 to 202.xxx.xxx.100 in message header without changing anything else in header[19:54:49] <tharkun> fahmad: are you conscious that the recieving server will add a Received: from your.real.ip.address header and that all masking made by you will be futile?[19:55:37] <tharkun> !tell fahmad smtp!=smptd[19:55:37] <knoba> tharkun: Error: No factoid matches that key.[19:56:14] <tharkun> !tell fahmad smtpd!=smpt[19:56:15] <knoba> tharkun: Error: No factoid matches that key.[19:56:16] <fahmad> tharkun: well SMTP checks hostname back[19:56:37] <fahmad> and if 202.61.192.102 != mail.xxxxxx.biz[19:56:44] <fahmad> and mail might fail[19:57:41] <tharkun> fahmad: What is your primary concern to avoid publishing your ip?[19:57:55] <fahmad> yes[19:58:06] <fahmad> but i do not want to hide headers :)[19:58:14] <tharkun> fahmad: What is your primary concern to avoid publishing your ip?[19:58:20] <fahmad> but i do not want to hide headers :)[19:58:27] <fahmad> yes i want to hide ip address[19:58:34] <tharkun> WHY?[19:58:49] <fahmad> becuase it may run multiple smtp[19:58:50] <fahmad> sir[19:59:05] <fahmad> and i need to assigned 202.xxx.xxx.101 to another domain[19:59:16] <fahmad> and it will use same 202.61.192.102 ip :([19:59:26] <fahmad> and it will publish my ip address[20:00:09] <tharkun> fahmad: Hmm you got your basics wrong. take a look at !basic so you can understand how email works. And you will realize that you are losing your time miserably.[20:00:25] * tharkun goes back to SQL wrestling[20:01:21] *** karl is now known as Guest56437[20:01:44] <fahmad> hmm[20:05:29] *** breaker313 has joined #postfix[20:05:30] <adaptr> "publish" his IP address ? what does that mean[20:06:49] <rob0> smtp!=smtpd[20:06:55] <rob0> !smtp!=smtpd[20:06:55] <knoba> rob0: "smtp!=smtpd" : Postfix smtp_* and smtpd_* configuration parameters have different meanings. smtp_ = client and smtpd_ = server, the client-side sends mail whilst the server-side receives mail. (smtp = client = sends mail) (smtpd = server = receives mail)[20:07:17] <rob0> smtp!=stmp[20:07:34] <adaptr> rob0!=rob0[20:07:38] <rob0> smtp!=smpt[20:07:46] <adaptr> SMTP != SMPTE[20:09:14] <fahmad> hmm[20:16:07] *** happymeerkat has joined #postfix[20:19:43] <tharkun> rob0: If I add two maps to virtual_alias_maps will postfix read the first one and if nothing gets defined there will go on to the next one?[20:19:59] <adaptr> and you're askinng him that because...[20:20:25] <adaptr> no, all _maps* are processed in reverse rainbow color order and read right to left , down to up[20:20:30] <adaptr> wtfango[20:21:06] *** eam has quit IRC[20:21:45] <tharkun> adaptr: the reasons are[20:21:48] <tharkun> ...[20:22:09] <adaptr> maps are, at all times, fully in memory.[20:22:40] <adaptr> there is no overhead by reading more than one, but if you have, say a cidr: map with 200K entries, followed by a 100-line hash: map, experience dictates that yo umay want to switch them around[20:23:16] <tharkun> hmm well the isue is there are some aliases that shouldn't be touched by the admin guys so i planned on leaving them on a separate file and leave them their AD to handle the rest of the stuff[20:24:03] <tharkun> there is a hash file with 10 or so aliases, the rest is handled by the AD instance on some other machine[20:24:49] <rob0> tharkun, yes, order of maps is important[20:25:16] <adaptr> if yours should not be overridden, yours need to be first[20:25:35] <tharkun> meaning the right most on the config file. Right?[20:25:39] <lunaphyte_> if you can tell me what the acronym smpte means withouth looking it up, i'll give you a cookie[20:26:33] *** Guest56437 has quit IRC[20:27:09] <adaptr> lunaphyte_: I listen to a LOT of Zappa.[20:27:22] *** eam has joined #postfix[20:27:35] <adaptr> and he spells it out on "Flakes", from the Baby Snakes album[20:27:50] <lunaphyte_> hah[20:28:07] <adaptr> so if you must... Society of Motion Picture and Television Engineers[20:28:21] <lunaphyte_> shoot, i ran out of cookies[20:28:29] <adaptr> I forgive you[20:31:01] <lunaphyte_> leave it to frank to shoehorn an obscure reference like that into his lyrics[20:32:05] *** MaximusColourum has joined #postfix[20:32:14] <adaptr> a true wordsmith ,he was[20:32:43] <adaptr> (I had to adjust for a second while I thought you were talking about frank the rabbit)[20:33:01] *** Natureshadow is now known as Natureshadow[ITA[20:33:13] *** Natureshadow[ITA is now known as Natureshadow|ITA[20:38:33] *** ced117_ has joined #postfix[20:38:39] *** Driver has quit IRC[20:39:08] *** biggi_mat has quit IRC[20:40:49] *** happymeerkat has quit IRC[20:41:44] *** ced117 has quit IRC[20:45:37] *** thoraxe has quit IRC[20:46:26] *** thoraxe has joined #postfix[20:57:06] *** nephfl has quit IRC[20:57:25] *** phantasm66 has quit IRC[20:57:37] *** tr-808 has quit IRC[20:57:37] *** tr-808_ has quit IRC[20:58:07] *** tr-808 has joined #postfix[21:02:42] *** elex1111110 has joined #postfix[21:09:48] *** elex1111110 has quit IRC[21:14:15] *** elex1111110 has joined #postfix[21:15:01] *** elex1111110 has quit IRC[21:18:56] *** nephfl has joined #postfix[21:19:31] <nephfl> is there an amount of mail per day that you have found that is best for a single instance of postfix?[21:22:29] *** rotbeard has joined #postfix[21:25:51] *** nephfl has quit IRC[21:27:22] *** ced117_ has quit IRC[21:27:34] *** fahmad has quit IRC[21:28:10] *** Areckx has joined #postfix[21:28:43] *** rotbeard has quit IRC[21:57:26] *** breaker313 has quit IRC[22:00:27] *** tolkor has quit IRC[22:07:29] *** Eagleman7 has quit IRC[22:09:09] *** Eagleman7 has joined #postfix[22:10:19] *** Eagleman7 has quit IRC[22:10:47] *** Eagleman7 has joined #postfix[22:19:58] *** Kyouma has quit IRC[22:24:58] *** tolkor has joined #postfix[22:39:31] *** gerhard7 has quit IRC[22:39:37] *** Eagleman7 has quit IRC[22:39:52] *** Natureshadow|ITA is now known as Natureshadow[22:40:02] *** Eagleman7 has joined #postfix[22:47:17] *** Eagleman7 has quit IRC[22:48:17] *** Eagleman7 has joined #postfix[22:58:21] *** chazcafe has joined #postfix[22:58:45] *** MaximusColourum has quit IRC[23:04:02] *** chadmaynard has joined #postfix[23:06:52] <adaptr> what a weird question. I'd say "3 messages", so I can read the logs at leisure.[23:07:11] *** higuita has quit IRC[23:10:04] <pj> lol[23:10:21] <pj> four messages for me .. I'm a fast reader.[23:10:25] <thumbs> I like to read one a day. They I lose interest.[23:10:37] <jimpop> none for me.... my logs go to /dev/null[23:10:52] *** chadmaynard has quit IRC[23:11:00] <pj> the real thrill seekers go for eight[23:11:14] *** Steve_The_Pirate has quit IRC[23:11:46] <adaptr> well, I could have gone with "2, then I tcpdump them"[23:12:25] <adaptr> but that might be taxing his skillset[23:12:30] <pj> lol[23:18:38] *** wdp_ has quit IRC[23:27:33] *** Southron has quit IRC[23:47:19] *** heller_barde has joined #postfix[23:50:53] *** s0ber_ has joined #postfix[23:52:12] *** s0ber has quit IRC[23:52:20] *** s0ber_ is now known as s0ber[23:57:28] *** heller_barde has quit IRC[23:59:31] *** chazcafe has quit IRC