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[01:13:11] <Knocker1> We have a postfix server that is sending e-mail after almost a two hour delay? Has anybody had similar problems or advice?
[01:16:25] <patdk-lap> !tell Knocker1 welcome
[01:16:25] <knoba> Knocker1: "welcome" : welcome to #postfix! if you're joining for the first time, or are new to irc, the first thing you'll want to do is read the channel topic (/topic). it includes crucial instructions on how to effectively ask for help here, and what data you should include with your questions. the degree of success you'll have is directly related to how effectively you're able to follow those guidelines.
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[01:22:56] <Knocker1> Very sorry
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[01:25:52] <will_> lol
[01:26:01] <thumbs> !t will_ sorry
[01:26:01] <knoba> thumbs: Error: "t" is not a valid command.
[01:26:10] <will_> noob
[01:29:26] <rm_work> My goal: for all mail recieved, ignore the To/CC header data, add a BCC to one specific address, and send the mail completely intact to only the BCC address and not anywhere else. Can I do this in postfix? I have been trying, and so far no luck.
[01:30:18] <will_> What do you do with the other mail?
[01:30:21] <rm_work> ^^ this is for "testing" purposes -- I need the mail server to intercept all emails sent to it and not send them to their intended recipients, but directly to my address so I can see what they would have seen
[01:30:55] <will_> Always BCC?
[01:30:59] <rm_work> yes
[01:31:01] <rm_work> always_bcc
[01:31:04] <rm_work> i have seen that
[01:31:04] <will_> yeah
[01:31:15] <rm_work> i am having problems *not* sending it to the other addresses tho
[01:31:21] <rm_work> without modifying the header (which I need intact)
[01:31:32] <danblack> or alias everything to one box.
[01:31:32] <will_> Personally, I'd use a sink for that
[01:31:43] <danblack> headers don't get modified in either case
[01:32:04] <rm_work> danblack: will that leave the header intact, so when I get the mail in MY email box, it will still list all of the original recipients?
[01:32:06] <rm_work> hrm
[01:32:06] <will_> Like a catchall
[01:32:39] <rm_work> so, alias * to my address?
[01:32:44] <rm_work> or else... use a "sink"?
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[01:33:06] <rm_work> or, alias * to some null address, and use always_bcc to mine?
[01:34:09] <danblack> headers will be intact. I'm tried to remember how the original envelope address gets recorded in the header. It will probably be there.
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[01:55:32] <rm_work> alright, thanks guys, looks like that works
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[03:09:18] <l1nuxman> My email server is apparently sending out spam. How can I check the logs to find out how it is doing it, and why? How to fix it?
[03:09:45] <will_> 1. Why do you think you're sending out spam?
[03:10:00] <will_> 2. "cat" on the logs work
[03:10:16] <l1nuxman> will_, because my provider shutdown my Private server saying I was
[03:10:20] <will_> lol
[03:10:21] <will_> Ok
[03:11:02] <thumbs> l1nuxman: heh, your VPS was shut down? :)
[03:11:10] <l1nuxman> yes
[03:11:29] <l1nuxman> I put it back online, but turned off postfix
[03:12:02] <rob0> Most common causes of this are ssh password attacks (guessable/dictionary passwords for common usernames) or broken/exploitable web/php scripts.
[03:12:26] <rob0> Kudos to your provider for taking action.
[03:12:29] <l1nuxman> hmm
[03:12:41] <rob0> Turning off Postfix might not be enough.
[03:12:52] <l1nuxman> how do I know if I have been hacked?
[03:13:00] <l1nuxman> I have access to my system with same password
[03:13:41] <rob0> well, there was a reason why I took the time to name the most common causes of exploit.
[03:14:33] <l1nuxman> but how do I know the means that was taken rob0 ? And how to prevent it
[03:16:41] <rob0> For one you could see if you have any ssh-enabled user accounts with weak passwords. Don't give out shell to people you don't trust. Restrict sshd to secret key auth only. Doesn't hurt to move sshd off of port 22, too.
[03:17:15] <rob0> Turn off your httpd until you are sure of your PHP web content. This one is not so simple.
[03:18:16] <rob0> Consider the entire system suspect unless/until you can be sure it is clean. Sometimes the only way to be sure is to reinstall from known clean media.
[03:18:20] <lunaphyte> wouldn't it make sense to ask your provider to share their clues with you?
[03:18:37] <lunaphyte> it sort of seems odd that that wouldn't be the very first thing you do
[03:18:44] <rob0> they might not do that on suspicion of deliberate spamming
[03:18:56] <lunaphyte> sure - but the asking part.
[03:19:27] <rob0> yes, they should have a FAQ for "am I rooted?"
[03:19:30] <lunaphyte> generally speaking, i wouldn't think it would be too terribly difficult to demonstrate that you share the same goal as them, and are on e the same team.
[03:19:50] <l1nuxman> well they gave me the log
[03:19:52] <thumbs> or "is it time to hire an admin yet?"
[03:19:55] <l1nuxman> of the email spam
[03:20:08] <l1nuxman> however since it is a pvs they don't have any access to my system.
[03:20:18] <l1nuxman> Let me paste the LOG they gave me
[03:20:19] <lunaphyte> oh good, so then you can correlate that to your logs, and pastebin them like the /topic directs you to.
[03:20:23] <rob0> correlate those logs to your own
[03:20:47] <l1nuxman> yea there's so much in there, that I'm not sure where to look for clues
[03:21:02] <rob0> You can pastebin all you want, but you didn't answer my comments above, which would have been a better starting point.
[03:22:03] <rob0> if a spammer has shell access on your vps, you can bet that you are being used in criminal activity.
[03:22:54] <l1nuxman> http://pastebin.com/qYJ78JMK
[03:22:56] <lunaphyte> tbh, this is really all just fundamental sysadmin concepts.
[03:23:29] <lunaphyte> you should not be running a mail server if you do not yet have the necessary competencies to handle circumstances like this.
[03:23:47] <will_> heh
[03:23:50] <l1nuxman> I can handle it I just have never been hacked
[03:24:03] <jimpop> lunaphyte: s/mail server/server/
[03:24:23] <lunaphyte> handle it means not having to ask other people how to find out what is happening on your computer.
[03:24:44] <will_> The pastebin is a bit worthless as it has been munged
[03:24:45] <jimpop> l1nuxman: that doesn't look like a LOG file
[03:25:11] <lunaphyte> correlate those clues to your logs, like i said, and like rob0 said.
[03:26:24] <rob0> I expect that the VPS provider munged the complaint.
[03:27:05] <rob0> but maybe the times and queue IDs will help
[03:27:31] <will_> There's no way to know what was munged
[03:28:07] <lunaphyte> we'll see what clues are revealed when he shares his correlated logs.
[03:32:24] <l1nuxman> http://pastebin.com/cprEJz3s
[03:34:21] <will_> Poor David
[03:34:23] <lunaphyte> client=localhost[127.0.0.1]
[03:34:25] <lunaphyte> haha
[03:34:35] <lunaphyte> david is getting SCREWED
[03:34:56] <l1nuxman> lol
[03:35:55] <rob0> Definitely looks like I was right.
[03:35:59] <lunaphyte> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFxmelljiyg
[03:36:31] <rob0> You might not be rooted, but you cannot know for sure.
[03:37:40] <will_> lunaphyte: lol
[03:37:44] <lunaphyte> that trailer should explain what's going on with your server
[03:39:39] <will_> haha
[03:39:56] <will_> DONT PICK UP THE PHONE DAMMIT
[03:40:54] <l1nuxman> lol from inside the house
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[03:44:58] <l1nuxman> I have a suspicion they got in through SSH
[03:46:16] <rob0> good, because SSH is easier to secure.
[03:46:44] <rob0> Bad, because SSH means they have probably gotten root.
[03:46:59] <l1nuxman> user benjamin is logged in apparently because I try to delete the account, but 'who' doesn't show anyone else but me
[03:47:09] <l1nuxman> no probably through benjamin
[03:47:10] <rob0> back up your stuff and reinstall
[03:47:24] <patdk-lap> heh, somehow I doubt they got in through ssh
[03:47:33] <patdk-lap> they probably got in and setup an ssh account though
[03:47:39] <rob0> shell access typically will lead to root access for a determined, competent attacker.
[03:51:33] <lunaphyte> i doubt it's an ssh issue
[03:51:48] <lunaphyte> i'd expect some web application being molested
[03:52:17] <patdk-lap> hmm, molestation
[03:52:52] <lunaphyte> one good clue is that it's smtp/loopback and not a sendmail submission, which if it is a web application, would potentially make it much easier to pinpoint.
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[04:02:38] <twb> If I have an alias foo: |"procmail /etc/postfix/foo.procmail", how does postfix decide what user to run the delivery as?
[04:03:05] <rob0> !alias_owner
[04:03:05] <knoba> rob0: Error: "alias_owner" is not a valid command.
[04:03:14] <rob0> !default_privs
[04:03:15] <knoba> rob0: "default_privs" : postconf(5) setting for the default rights used by local(8) delivery agent for delivery to external file or command. These rights are used when delivery is requested from a root-owned aliases(5) file, or when delivering to root. DO NOT SPECIFY A PRIVILEGED USER OR THE POSTFIX OWNER. See also !aliases_owner
[04:03:24] <rob0> !aliases_owner
[04:03:24] <knoba> rob0: "aliases_owner" : When an aliases(5) file (listed in or referred to from $alias_maps) is owned by a user other than root, the file owner and group would be the UID/GID for any commands invoked from that file. See aliases(5) and local(8) for details.
[04:04:03] <twb> Ah, that's right
[04:04:07] <twb> Thanks
[04:04:11] <rob0> yw
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[06:58:15] <janos_> hello, i am getting the dreaded 5.7.1 cannot relay error
[06:58:30] <janos_> i am converting a 5+ year old postfix+dovecot to more recent
[06:58:45] <janos_> i can receive from external addresses, but cannot send to
[06:59:06] <janos_> my major config difference in this install is dovecot-provided sasl auth
[06:59:40] <janos_> how should i proceed debugging?
[07:00:28] <janos_> i have stripped smtpd_recipient_restrictions down to permit sasl, permit mynetworks, reject unauth destination
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[07:55:26] <roe> man I really hate users with weak passwords
[07:55:53] <twb> Force them to use passphrase-protected TLS certs instead
[07:56:20] <roe> yea, that's going to be a winning fight
[07:56:30] <roe> can I change my name to Don
[07:56:38] <roe> and ride a donkey?
[07:56:56] <twb> Users cannot be led, they must be driven
[07:57:21] <roe> they can also be killed
[07:57:27] <roe> and maimed
[07:57:42] <twb> Good man
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[08:03:23] <janos_> someone kill me
[08:03:57] <janos_> this 5.7.1 relay access deny is keeeeling me
[08:04:07] <janos_> can't even send with telnet localhost
[08:08:39] <jimpop> !tell janos_ welcome
[08:08:40] <knoba> janos_: "welcome" : welcome to #postfix! if you're joining for the first time, or are new to irc, the first thing you'll want to do is read the channel topic (/topic). it includes crucial instructions on how to effectively ask for help here, and what data you should include with your questions. the degree of success you'll have is directly related to how effectively you're able to follow those guidelines.
[08:08:56] <janos_> was just reading that...
[08:09:03] <janos_> thanks
[08:09:12] <janos_> sorry
[08:09:29] <jimpop> also see:
[08:09:32] <jimpop> !debug
[08:09:32] <knoba> jimpop: "debug" : http://www.postfix.org/DEBUG_README.html : a good starting point for how to deal with problems and to report information to those who might help. Post your information in a pastebin such as http://pastebin.ca/ or http://dpaste.com/
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[08:14:34] <janos_> my postconf -n : http://dpaste.com/709797/
[08:15:01] <janos_> my big issue is that while i can reveive fine, and send between the virtual users on teh system fine
[08:15:07] <janos_> i simply cannot seem to send out
[08:15:41] <janos_> egrep'ing the log as instructed showed no signs of problems other than bots or whatever failing to auth
[08:16:16] <janos_> the biggie is: is there somethign bone-headed in the postconf that's just plain wrong?
[08:16:18] <roe> janos_, can you post a log file of an attempt?
[08:16:24] <janos_> sure hting
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[08:17:17] <janos_> hrm, the bad attempt is udner dovecot, not postfix. sorry. so nothing egrep'd from logs on just postfix
[08:17:22] <janos_> did you still wish to see?
[08:17:31] <roe> sure
[08:17:37] <roe> which dovecot service?
[08:18:06] <janos_> imap-login
[08:18:09] <roe> then no
[08:18:18] <janos_> ok
[08:18:26] <roe> if postfix is not logging an attempt to send a message, no message was attempted
[08:18:30] <roe> to be sent
[08:18:48] <janos_> right - for those errors it's defintiely not getting that far
[08:19:04] <janos_> i can re-do a localhost telnet 25 attempt and past that
[08:19:10] <janos_> paste
[08:19:27] <roe> try, from the cli: tail -f /var/log/mail.log |grep postfix while attempting to send
[08:19:36] <janos_> ok
[08:21:29] <janos_> http://dpaste.com/709800/
[08:21:37] <janos_> that's the basic telnet example
[08:21:42] <roe> !relay_denied
[08:21:43] <knoba> roe: "relay_denied" : NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from CLIENT_HOST[CLIENT_IP]: 554 5.7.1 <RECIPIENT@RCPT_DOMAIN>: Relay access denied; from=<SENDER@SENDER_DOMAIN> to=<RECIPIENT@RCPT_DOMAIN> proto=ESMTP helo=<HELO>: This typically means that CLIENT_IP is not in mynetworks (and did not AUTH), and that RCPT_DOMAIN was not recognized as one of this Postfix's domains (not listed in mydestination, relay_domains or virtual_*_domains).
[08:23:15] <janos_> i'm sending from one of the local virtual domains to an external
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[08:23:39] <janos_> liek if i just wanted to send to someone at gmail dot com
[08:23:56] <roe> your ipv6 address isn't listed in mynetworks
[08:24:19] <roe> localhost[::1]
[08:24:22] <janos_> hrmm, let me be sure i have ipv6 on
[08:24:26] <roe> you do
[08:24:28] <janos_> ic an always add
[08:24:40] <janos_> will add and reload
[08:25:37] <janos_> reloaded, will re-attempt telnet
[08:26:19] <janos_> unsupported dictionary type: localhost[
[08:27:27] <janos_> sicne i'm not intending to use ipv6, would it simplify things if i turned it off?
[08:27:36] <roe> [::1]/128
[08:27:38] <roe> that is what you want
[08:27:55] <janos_> ok, thank you. my familiarity with ipv6 is slim at best
[08:28:17] <jimpop> janos_: ^^ that makes you normal
[08:28:23] <jimpop> ;-)
[08:28:30] <roe> you should start getting used to ipv6
[08:28:32] <roe> it is coming
[08:28:43] <janos_> oh i agree
[08:28:58] <janos_> just a matter of me cramming it in with my other duties
[08:30:06] <janos_> i think this is going somewhere
[08:31:24] <roe> I too am going somewhere... to bed
[08:32:05] <janos_> i wish i was
[08:32:09] <janos_> 2:30 am here
[08:32:18] <janos_> oh telnet went through
[08:33:05] <janos_> time for me to try external
[08:33:14] <janos_> i seriously owe you already
[08:34:24] <janos_> ok, closer
[08:34:29] <janos_> telnet localhost worked
[08:34:32] <janos_> though external not
[08:34:47] <janos_> same basic error
[08:34:55] <janos_> but that gives me a big hint i wass lacking
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[08:41:28] <janos_> ok you know i had to try - chenged to jsut ipv4. can do a telnet localhot to outside world, but not external client
[08:57:20] <janos_> appears i can send from local subnet as well using telnet
[09:04:38] <janos_> gah, rolling back to old server
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[09:11:25] <kombi> I know this is ot but qpopper stopped to accept connections just like that and I'm out of ideas. Where would I start to troubleshoot?
[09:12:02] <janos_> ok, i shall be back another day to fight this battle old mail server back in place
[09:12:09] <janos_> have a good evening all
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[11:06:27] <CityLights> hi, can someone please help me understand if I am using a relay server?
[11:07:08] <CityLights> I look at full email details of a mail I sent from a server, and I see no reference to the relay server
[11:07:28] <UQlev> CityLights: you can see it in header of your message if you send any to yahoo or gmail
[11:08:18] <CityLights> I am getting it in gmail
[11:08:36] <CityLights> I searched for the relay host ip, and cant find it
[11:08:59] <CityLights> so is it correct to assume the server is connecting stright to the email servers?
[11:09:31] <UQlev> CityLights: you can assume, guess whatever but it is easier to examine your logfiles
[11:09:32] <CityLights> I mean: is it correct that was sent without going throu the relay server
[11:10:20] <UQlev> CityLights: in your log it should be obvious where your sever send it to
[11:10:31] <CityLights> UQlev: but the email itself must have all the info - right
[11:10:50] <UQlev> right
[11:11:24] <CityLights> so if the message was recived in some server it must appear in the email details
[11:13:55] <CityLights> ok, my next question is how to setup spf to allow 13 servers to send email messages with the same domain
[11:14:10] <UQlev> yes, read header from bottom to top
[11:14:18] <CityLights> right
[11:15:05] <UQlev> CityLights: read syntax for spf1
[11:15:38] <CityLights> ya I see I can use ipv4:1.2.3.4 , but may I put 13 ips there?
[11:15:47] <UQlev> I use spf only for my MX
[11:16:12] <CityLights> for incoming mail you receive, what about email you send?
[11:16:18] <UQlev> read syntax if it allows to use lists or so
[11:16:30] <CityLights> dont you want other to verify your email with spf?
[11:16:44] <UQlev> I send emails only from my MX
[11:17:06] <CityLights> so it is a relay host to other servers
[11:17:10] <CityLights> right?
[11:17:10] <UQlev> I have spf record for my domain
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[11:17:36] <UQlev> I do not nead relay servers
[11:17:49] <CityLights> and so your email server is the only one sending email messages to the world - right?
[11:18:09] <UQlev> right, I have IP with good reputation
[11:18:19] <UQlev> static
[11:18:26] <UQlev> and I do not need relays
[11:19:19] <CityLights> how would a server send an email whih is not the email server?
[11:20:35] <UQlev> CityLights: null-clients for this job I guess
[11:20:53] <CityLights> what is a null-client?
[11:21:04] <UQlev> !nullclient
[11:21:04] <knoba> UQlev: "nullclient" : a null client is a computer that can only send mail. it receives no mail from the network, and it does not deliver any mail locally. while postfix can be configured to fill this role, it is often unnecessary overkill, and a much simpler software package is more appropriate. see !nullclient_software for more details.
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[12:06:52] <tomle> How does postfix hand over email to scripts when I use /etc/aliases for piping ? All logs seems fine but the script is not executed properly. http://pastebin.com/KC2qtNTs
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[12:29:39] <danblack> tomle: as per the last line of the logs the local postfix is run and executed the script. Perhaps putting an absolute path in your alias script of the file it writes to.
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[12:49:26] <RWOverdijk> I'm running an untouched installation of postfix on freebsd. The machine has 13GB free ram, 99,7% idle cpu... Yet the maximum amount of emails I can send out is 15 per second.
[12:50:09] <RWOverdijk> I'm wondering if that's normal.
[12:50:30] <tomle> thanks danblack !
[12:54:03] <sep> RWOverdijk, are you running things like amavis or similar ?
[12:56:51] <danblack> are all outgoing mails destined to the same server?
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[12:58:25] <RWOverdijk> sep, no
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[13:02:11] <RWOverdijk> danblack: Some of them are, yea
[13:02:24] <danblack> default_destination_concurrency_limit
[13:03:08] <danblack> use postconf to show its default value
[13:04:34] <danblack> also see default_process_limit and its impact on smtp processes in master.cf
[13:05:05] <RWOverdijk> default_destination_concurrency_limit = 20
[13:05:27] <RWOverdijk> default_process_limit is 100
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[13:09:13] <RWOverdijk> smtp_connect_timeout and smtp_helo_timeout are set pretty high. But that shouldnt be the problem..?
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[13:25:00] <tomle> Is there a quick way to use delimiters in postfix with /etc/aliases ? Will recipient_delimiter = - in main.cf and bounce: |/phpscript.php in /etc/aliases work for bounce-randomnumber@ addresses ?
[13:40:12] <danblack> sounds right. try and see. Either that or use some kind of regex map in alias
[13:41:54] <danblack> RWOverdijk: did raising default_destination_concurrency_limit increase throughput?
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[13:51:35] <CityLights> !nullclient_software
[13:51:36] <knoba> CityLights: "nullclient_software" : a program that serves as a drop in replacement for /usr/sbin/sendmail and provides a simple means to submit messages to an existing msa without the need to install and maintain a full-blown mta/msa. examples include msmtp, esmtp, ssmtp and nullmailer. also see !msa
[13:53:12] <CityLights> UQlev: so if I use a null client and still want to have a valid spf I must use a relay host - right
[13:53:13] <CityLights> ?
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[14:02:05] <danblack> CityLights: you don't have to use a relay host however the spf record must describe where you are sending from.
[14:02:25] <danblack> or the relay host's outbound if you choose that way.
[14:03:08] <CityLights> smtp.gmail.com points to a cname
[14:03:18] <CityLights> is this spf ok?
[14:09:38] <danblack> v=spf1 include:_spf.google.com ~all
[14:09:52] <danblack> like googles help says.
[14:09:54] <danblack> gn.
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[14:24:26] <CityLights> danblack: sorry, I am new to all this
[14:24:36] <CityLights> but not new to linux
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[14:26:30] <danblack> CityLights: i'm probably tired and impatent too. little more attempts to solve it on your part would seem less burdensome.
[14:27:09] <CityLights> danblack: sorry if the last line came out wrong
[14:27:18] <CityLights> I know I need to learn this
[14:27:28] <CityLights> I am just asking fro pointer here
[14:27:35] <CityLights> and so far all is fine
[14:27:45] <danblack> good.
[14:27:59] <danblack> you'll get there
[14:28:16] <CityLights> I mean I know client server applications as web
[14:28:24] <CityLights> and I know a bit about dns
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[14:28:39] <CityLights> so I am tring to understand how email works
[14:34:13] <Dominian> CityLights: Might help if you explain your ultimate goal.
[14:35:53] <CityLights> yes
[14:36:34] <CityLights> but I need to decide with my boss first
[14:36:34] <CityLights> in general I would like to allow a set of servers to send email messages
[14:36:45] <CityLights> so , yes most are null-clients
[14:37:04] <CityLights> how ever I still want these to have a vaild spf and not get black listed
[14:37:25] <CityLights> the reason is that in case the relay host dies - they can still send email out
[14:37:54] <Dominian> having valid spf records for every server that sends email.. interesting idea
[14:38:01] <lunaphyte_> if you use spf, then you'll want to include a reference to the relay host in the spf record for any domains which "go through" the relay host
[14:38:04] <Dominian> but that's wht relay hosts are for.. and if they do die.. well they die.. fix them.. move on
[14:38:22] <lunaphyte_> how would you send email if the relay host was not working?
[14:39:34] <CityLights> I can send the email massage directly from the server to the target - right
[14:39:35] <CityLights> ?
[14:39:40] <lunaphyte_> how?
[14:39:52] <lunaphyte_> and why would you do that? don't do that.
[14:40:04] <CityLights> pls exaplin
[14:40:14] <lunaphyte_> huh?
[14:40:16] <CityLights> why would I want a single relay host?
[14:40:17] <lunaphyte_> no. YOU explain.
[14:40:41] <CityLights> in case I have 13 webservers that can also send out email mesages
[14:40:58] <CityLights> and are all static ips, and are in the srf record
[14:41:21] <CityLights> then I got no single point of failure
[14:41:26] <CityLights> good, right?
[14:41:31] <lunaphyte_> no
[14:41:41] <lunaphyte_> unnecesarily overcomplicated.
[14:42:05] <Dominian> That's actually really bad CityLights
[14:42:11] <lunaphyte_> put null clients on the web servers like there should be, point the null clients to a proper msa, and properly manage the msa. that's it.
[14:42:18] <Dominian> CityLights: what if one of those webservers becomes compromised... and starts sending out 1000's of spam email? then what?
[14:42:59] <lunaphyte_> if you really think that these web servers have messages of such dire importance to send out [which i doubt, btw], then build a more robust msa infrastructure.
[14:43:16] <CityLights> ok
[14:43:35] <lunaphyte_> run two load balanced msas
[14:43:38] <CityLights> I did read about spf, and it was hintted to use central mx server
[14:43:50] <lunaphyte_> spf has nothing to do with mx
[14:44:00] <Dominian> yah
[14:44:10] <Dominian> spf records don't necessarily mean "MX" only
[14:44:18] <CityLights> how ever in a cloud era when no one wnats a single point of failure , I was considering this solution
[14:44:20] <lunaphyte_> spf focuses only on where mail *comes* from
[14:44:30] <CityLights> right
[14:44:39] <Dominian> cloud doesn't mean 'no single point of failure' mind you
[14:44:43] <Dominian> they still have their points of failure :)
[14:44:49] <CityLights> and in case the sender is not spf valid - the message is bounced
[14:44:52] <CityLights> and this is bad
[14:45:00] <janos_> MS's Azure cloud took a dump yesterday in fact
[14:45:01] <lunaphyte_> i'm tired of this "no single point of failure just for the sake of no single point of failure" babble.
[14:45:16] <CityLights> hay
[14:45:24] <Dominian> CityLights: not all serversf 'bounce' email on bad spf records
[14:45:30] <CityLights> I am just considering the diffrent options , here
[14:45:39] <CityLights> some do
[14:45:41] <lunaphyte_> how about this - having a "single point of failure" means you'll know much sooner when something is broken, allowing you to fix it sooner.
[14:45:46] <CityLights> and this is not good for us
[14:46:02] <Dominian> CityLights: 'some' yes, but not all
[14:46:03] <CityLights> nm
[14:46:04] <Dominian> and here's the thing
[14:46:22] <Dominian> How you CONFIGURE your SPF record.. usually determines how a server checking spf records will handle it
[14:46:34] <lunaphyte_> and don't count on that either
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[14:46:36] <Dominian> if you have -all instead of ~all it will treat it differently for example
[14:46:41] <lunaphyte_> hopefully
[14:46:42] <lunaphyte_> :)
[14:46:51] <CityLights> but I cant do -all
[14:46:52] <Dominian> lunaphyte_: well technically it should hehe
[14:47:00] <CityLights> it disables the spf all together
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[14:47:10] <lunaphyte_> for example - i don't, and never will, because that would be insane
[14:47:26] <Dominian> CityLights: -all does NOT disable spf
[14:47:29] <Dominian> !spf
[14:47:30] <knoba> Dominian: "spf" : sender policy framework - an extension to SMTP that allows to identify and reject emails from spoofed/forged email senders. SPF is just a TXT or SPF record in your DNS zone in a special format. See: http://www.openspf.net/
[14:47:33] <CityLights> I mean I know these servers
[14:47:36] <Dominian> You really need to read up on what -all does
[14:47:46] <CityLights> I can register their addresses
[14:48:17] <Dominian> uhhh no
[14:48:17] <CityLights> even bad ppl
[14:48:27] <Dominian> again, read up on wtf -all does in an spf record please
[14:48:36] <CityLights> and I only trust my servers to send out email
[14:48:42] <CityLights> ok
[14:48:57] <CityLights> I may have got the wiki wrong
[14:49:19] <CityLights> yes, it doesnt disable
[14:49:27] <Dominian> all -all says is "anything NOT included in this spf record, its not me sending it so flag it/drop it/bounce it/whatever"
[14:49:50] <Dominian> ~all means "anything not in this record should be 'flagged' or 'logged' as not coming from my domain etc"
[14:50:09] <CityLights> right
[14:50:41] <Dominian> with ? being neutral and + being 'pass'
[14:50:45] <CityLights> sorry I ment all or +all
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[16:20:36] <lprelle> Hi, does someone have a good workaround like yours on wourksaround.org, just with db-stroed mails? (+optional with posfixadmin)
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[16:33:27] <rob0> lprelle, that would require a delivery agent that can store mail in a database. The only such agent I know of is the dbmail IMAP server.
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[16:35:22] <lprelle> I think Courier could it also
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[16:48:14] <Bheam> question
[16:48:53] <Bheam> is spf to prevent people from sending email with my domain as sender, through servers that i have not allowed?
[16:50:50] <rob0> uh, you cannot prevent that, but the theory of SPF is that a recipient can check that, see the sending host is not listed, and use that as a reason to reject that mail.
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[16:54:22] <UQlev> !nullclient_software
[16:54:22] <knoba> UQlev: "nullclient_software" : a program that serves as a drop in replacement for /usr/sbin/sendmail and provides a simple means to submit messages to an existing msa without the need to install and maintain a full-blown mta/msa. examples include msmtp, esmtp, ssmtp and nullmailer. also see !msa
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[17:37:56] <dead> I'm seeing log entries where postfix has BOUNCED a message with this error: status=bounced (Name service error for name=gmats.usmma.edu type=A: Host not found)
[17:38:39] <lunaphyte_> is that the us mixed martial arts academy? neat that they got an edu
[17:38:45] <dead> the documentation says: 1) postfix doesnt do A record lookups by default, unless i set ignore_lookup_error or something, which it is not set) and 2) It says it will keep trying if it can't resolve the destination, yet here the message was bounced after 1 attempt?
[17:39:06] <dead> yes sure thats what it is
[17:40:34] <rob0> what is the question?
[17:40:55] <dead> Why is it bouncing after one attempt?
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[17:41:37] <rob0> Can't answer that without logs and postconf -n
[17:42:04] <dead> ok
[17:42:08] <dead> can't give that out unfortunately
[17:42:10] <dead> thanks anyways
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[17:42:42] <rob0> gmats.usmma.edu. 1800 IN A 96.57.28.194
[17:43:05] <Bheam> rob0: but that's the essence of what i asked, no?
[17:43:28] <Bheam> rob0: as in, if all recipients used SPF, nobody would receive email that i didn't send myself?
[17:43:31] <rob0> refresh my memory, what did you ask?
[17:43:41] <rob0> oh
[17:43:42] <Bheam> <Bheam> is spf to prevent people from sending email with my domain as sender, through servers that i have not allowed?
[17:43:42] <Bheam> <rob0> uh, you cannot prevent that, but the theory of SPF is that a recipient can check that, see the sending host is not listed, and use that as a reason to reject that mail.
[17:43:50] <rob0> !fussp
[17:43:50] <knoba> rob0: "fussp" : http://www.rhyolite.com/anti-spam/you-might-be.html
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[17:44:03] <Bheam> so yea i don't really prevent the sending, but i prevent the receiving?
[17:44:16] <rob0> "if everyone did this" <-- they don't
[17:44:18] <janos_> fussp, haha
[17:44:33] <Bheam> rob0: i know, i'm just trying to grasp what exactly spf does :p
[17:44:41] <rob0> spf was a half-baked idea anyway
[17:45:05] <rob0> don't waste your time. Implement DKIM signing.
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[17:52:03] <sp00kz> the one good thing about SPF is when idiotic spammers add their netblocks in order to comply =)
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[17:54:19] <tuxick> i catch close to nothing with spf
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[18:23:17] <wdp__> i like spf.
[18:23:21] <wdp__> blocks as much legitim mail as spam
[18:23:29] <wdp__> less mails, less work
[18:27:39] <tuxick> :)
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[18:39:12] <cheako> Hello, I'm tiered of websites that don't consider + to be valid in an email address. What can I do?
[18:39:54] <wdp> don't visit them
[18:43:08] <atossava> :D
[18:43:22] <atossava> set up your own domain so you can give every sender their own tagged address without using +
[18:43:29] <atossava> yes, it's a kludge
[18:45:29] <rob0> recipient_delimiter=-
[18:45:36] <cheako> atossava: I've done that already. It's a pain to setup every address.
[18:45:40] <rob0> ^^ the qmailish solution
[18:46:07] <cheako> recipient_delimiter=A
[18:46:10] <rob0> but migrating existing +addresses to the new delimiter, good luck.
[18:46:41] <atossava> cheako: I don't disagree, but it's something _you_ can do (you can't get the folks at the other end to accept +)
[18:49:16] <rob0> a valid address localpart matches this regexp in "C" locale: [[:alnum:]\ [punct:]]
[18:49:54] <rob0> which basically means any printable 7-bit ASCII character, including @ and quotes
[18:50:04] <cheako> atossava: That's it. We need to get a video on youtube and then get Hulu to carry it! Text the word plus to 220222 to make a $10 donation to get the plus sign off the hook.
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[18:54:06] <atossava> cheako: lol
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[19:00:59] <cheako> Is there anyone else available to start an initiative to force the folks at the other end to accept +?
[19:01:59] <cheako> Wold a handful of ppl here sign an on-line petition if one where available?
[19:03:46] <cheako> I was recently looking for a good writeup on recipient_delimiter/variable envelopes, is there a good one available that would help site owners understand the issue?
[19:08:46] <cheako> http://notfaq.wordpress.com/2006/07/20/plus-sign-in-email-addresses/ This is the best I could find. I'm thinking of turning it into a wikapedia article.
[19:09:35] <rob0> A wikipedia article should cite the exact language from RFC 5321, with a translation into English, of course.
[19:10:09] <cheako> hmm, the article for email_addresses looks good.
[19:10:33] <cheako> they call it address tags.
[19:10:50] <rob0> um, that article is wrong.
[19:11:11] <rob0> "meaning in almost all mailers:" ... no.
[19:12:06] <rob0> In Postfix you have no recipient_delimiter by default. If you want it, you must manually set it.
[19:12:19] <rob0> In qmail the delimiter is - not +.
[19:12:55] <rob0> other mailers I don't know, but I'd certainly not presume to say what "most" of them do or do not do.
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[19:46:20] <buki> rob0: most == sendmail :)
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[19:51:03] <cheako> bye.
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[21:55:34] <phantasm66> dammit
[21:55:45] <phantasm66> woops.. wrong window :(
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[22:15:14] <Cluber> hi guys. i've setup postfix to receive email for 2 of my domains with "mydestination = $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost, $mydomain, example1.com, example2.com" and this seems to work fine. I have two users on the system called "admin1" and "admin2" I want to receive all emails for the domain "example1.com" on the account "admin1" and all emails received for "example2.com" to be directed to the account "admin2". How can I acheive this?
[22:15:46] <mroe> !catchall
[22:15:46] <knoba> mroe: "catchall" : Sending all emails for non-existing users in domain to a special account. See man 5 virtual for the @domain syntax, which applies in virtual_*_maps and relay_recipient_maps. For local(8) delivery, unset local_recipient_maps and see luser_relay. WARNING: catchalls are rarely a good idea. Spammers will abuse them.
[22:18:12] <Cluber> mroe, it says rarely a good idea. So the alternative is?
[22:18:30] <mroe> don't use a catchall
[22:18:39] <mroe> enumerate goodness
[22:18:42] <rob0> the alternative is to tell us what problem you are trying to solve
[22:20:05] <Cluber> my server hosts multiple domains. I want the linux user "kat" to receive mail only for her domain "domain1.com" and not email for other hosted domains on the box. So when someone emails kat at otherhosteddom dot com she won't receive this email.
[22:20:34] <mroe> !virtual
[22:20:34] <knoba> mroe: "virtual" : a way to configure additional domains and user accounts (that do not need to exist in your /etc/passwd). See: http://www.postfix.org/VIRTUAL_README.html
[22:20:56] <mroe> sounds like you're using virtual alias domains, and wnat to use virtual mailbox domains
[22:21:21] <rob0> I'd use virtual_alias_maps pointing as many addresses as kat wants in example.com to kat@localhost
[22:21:43] <rob0> and list example.com in virtual_alias_domains
[22:22:35] <rob0> if you do the catchall, both you and kat will regret it.
[22:22:42] <Cluber> right
[22:22:53] <Cluber> looks as if im going to have to read the whole documentation and understand it
[22:23:07] <mroe> heaven forbid
[22:23:09] <Cluber> as this is all jargon to me
[22:23:20] <rob0> see the "virtual ALIAS example" in the link mroe gave you.
[22:23:39] <rob0> also never hurts to review
[22:23:42] <rob0> !basic
[22:23:42] <knoba> rob0: "basic" : http://www.postfix.org/BASIC_CONFIGURATION_README.html : a good starting place for Postfix beginners, many common questions are answered here.
[22:23:57] <Cluber> ok thanks guys
[22:24:08] <Cluber> I will understand with time
[22:24:14] <mroe> Cluber: you probably should read at least basic and be able to understand how your mailserver works if you expect to maintain it
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   March 1, 2012  
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