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[00:00:38] <Diranged> im reading this right now: http://www.postfix.org/SMTPD_PROXY_README.html…
[00:00:46] <higuita> you can have several instances of postfix running on the same machine (as long they dont use the same ports and a few selected dirs and files)
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[00:09:03] <Diranged> ok.. gonna be looking into that, thanks!
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[03:04:02] <babble> i downloaded postfix from one of the standard repos with opensuse and it is installed. how do i configure it to work with my isp smtp so that it will handle the outgoing mail from thunderbird? when i now look at one of the user account settings for an SMTP server in thunderbird, it has Description "To postfix from localhost", Server Name "127.0.0.1", and port 25. however, my mail account with the ISP normally uses different settings and there shou
[03:04:02] <babble> ld be Security and Authentication. Where in Postfix should these settings be made now?
[03:05:27] <babble> i just want it to be the default mail handler for my activity on this machine, nothing fancy or complicated. :)
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[03:05:35] <lunaphyte> why would you need postfix for this?
[03:06:01] <lunaphyte> postfix is mail server software. it's needed for running a mail server. it's not needed to simply send email from an email client.
[03:06:31] <babble> because i have other programs that also need to use the smtp server connections i want to configure
[03:06:46] <lunaphyte> like what?
[03:07:36] <babble> is there a default configuration file in postfix for this service?
[03:09:21] <lunaphyte> no
[03:10:27] <babble> if one wanted to use postfix for the server so that thunderbird will connect to it rather than directly to the isp, where would that configuration file be?
[03:10:47] <lunaphyte> one wouldn't do that.
[03:10:54] <babble> why not?
[03:10:57] <lunaphyte> it's silly
[03:11:23] <lunaphyte> configure your mail client to submit mail to your isp's mail server. it's why it's there.
[03:11:42] <babble> anybody else with a solution to this silly problem?
[03:12:12] <lunaphyte> !goal
[03:12:12] <knoba> lunaphyte: "goal" : describe your goal, not what you think the solution is
[03:12:23] <higuita> babble: you need to configure your postfix to accept emails from your IP (or enable sasl auth for your user) and then to smarthost to the ISP... you may need to configure sasl client in postfix, to authenticate in the ISP mail server
[03:13:02] <lunaphyte> helping people load guns for the wrong reason is not helpful.
[03:13:13] <lunaphyte> see the bigger picture.
[03:14:59] <babble> right now my system is configured to use fetchmail, and it works, to retrieve mail from the ISP server..
[03:15:26] <higuita> lunaphyte: i understand its reason, he wants to learn how to work with its machine and try to do things the unix way, not the gui way
[03:15:53] <babble> thank you, :)
[03:15:55] <seekwill> :)
[03:15:59] <higuita> many people learn this way, playing... not everyone is running big servers :)
[03:16:00] <lunaphyte> haha
[03:16:26] <seekwill> higuita: Unfortunately, email doesn't make it easy for people who are just playing.
[03:16:53] <lunaphyte> although you're almost certainly wrong, i might believe you if the goal was not being kept so secretive.
[03:17:01] <babble> lunaphyte, not everyone shares your expertise. i am one who does not.
[03:17:16] <babble> what secret are you referring to?
[03:17:34] <lunaphyte> whatever your *actual* goal is
[03:17:43] <babble> i am simply trying to get a simple answer to what seems like a simple question to me.
[03:17:43] <lunaphyte> so far, you've ignored multiple questions of mine.
[03:18:04] <lunaphyte> we are here to help people do things in responsible ways.
[03:18:15] <lunaphyte> not help them do likely silly, foolish things.
[03:18:23] <babble> lunaphyte, feel free to ignore my questions and not help me...
[03:18:51] <lunaphyte> doing things responsibly does not preclude learning how to make things work
[03:18:52] <babble> perhaps someone else can if you fell as if i am avoiding your quesitons, which i am not.
[03:19:02] <lunaphyte> you are
[03:19:12] <lunaphyte> simply state your actual goal
[03:19:20] <babble> i did
[03:19:44] <lunaphyte> [02:06am] babble: because i have other programs that also need to use the smtp server connections i want to configure
[03:19:44] <lunaphyte> [02:06am] lunaphyte: like what?
[03:19:59] <babble> i want to make thunderbird connect to postfix, then to my ISP's SMTP server. that is the whole picture.
[03:20:05] <lunaphyte> why?
[03:20:19] <lunaphyte> [02:06am] babble: because i have other programs that also need to use the smtp server connections i want to configure
[03:20:19] <lunaphyte> [02:06am] lunaphyte: like what?
[03:20:35] <lunaphyte> phew. at least we got back to a reasonable path.
[03:20:55] <lunaphyte> now hopefully we can get an answer and then move in a sensible direction
[03:21:26] <babble> lunaphyte, i am going to stop talking to you unless you can avoid this combative attitude... altough i would prefer to get help from you if you can do so. :)
[03:21:44] <lunaphyte> please do not make accusations like that here.
[03:22:11] <lunaphyte> you're not nearly familiar enough with this channel nor its participants to establish such conclusions.
[03:22:14] <higuita> seekwill: live dont make it easy for people that makes mistakes in the wrong place/wrong time... if they survive, they learn from it :)
[03:22:36] <lunaphyte> just answer the questions being posed by those from who are are seeking help.
[03:22:44] <babble> okay, then, i will now stop, since you seem persistent in this manner of dialoge. it is not helpful.
[03:23:06] <lunaphyte> so far, the persistence has been that of you refusing to answer simple questions.
[03:23:17] <jimpop> agreed ^^
[03:23:20] <seekwill> higuita: Sure. So why _waste_ so much time playing around with something as silly as email? :)
[03:23:23] <lunaphyte> oh, actually, that's not true. i persisted in trying to get things back on track by getting answers to them
[03:23:30] <seekwill> higuita: Spend you're life doing something better :)
[03:23:44] <lunaphyte> like hanggliding?
[03:23:52] <lunaphyte> hangliding?
[03:23:52] <jimpop> cliff diving
[03:23:53] <lunaphyte> hmm
[03:23:54] <seekwill> Exactly!
[03:23:56] <babble> anyone else who feels like he can provide a simple direction to my question.
[03:24:01] <higuita> LOL
[03:24:05] <jimpop> babble: sure, what is your issue?
[03:24:12] <seekwill> babble: If I were to help you, I would ask the same questions lunaphyte asked
[03:24:17] <lunaphyte> ah, of course. it's two words. hang gliding.
[03:24:28] <babble> thank you...
[03:24:33] <jimpop> babble: what postfix problem do you have?
[03:24:37] <seekwill> handgliding?
[03:24:40] <higuita> babble: i already gave you the path... you now need to search how to do that
[03:24:45] <jimpop> babble: and have you read and followed /topic ?
[03:24:48] <lunaphyte> i think that might be a different sport.
[03:26:02] <babble> i want to make it the mail handler for my system so that i can use other mail user agents to connect to it instead of directly to my ISP or to the other ISPs I occasionally use...
[03:26:32] <jimpop> babble: postfix doesn't really do that
[03:26:38] <babble> where do i make the settings in postfix so that thunderbird will convey the messages to it first..
[03:26:39] <jimpop> babble: you want fetchmail
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[03:27:05] <babble> i have fetchmail installed and it works for retieving mail just fine
[03:27:33] <lunaphyte> !tell babble nullclient
[03:27:34] <knoba> babble: "nullclient" : a null client is a computer that can only send mail. it receives no mail from the network, and it does not deliver any mail locally. while postfix can be configured to fill this role, it is often unnecessary overkill, and a much simpler software package is more appropriate. see !nullclient_software for more details.
[03:28:00] <babble> does fetchmail send mail to an SMTP server as well, jimpop?
[03:28:28] <lunaphyte> no
[03:29:15] <jimpop> babble: no
[03:29:58] <babble> my fetchmail program serves the purpose of delivering mail from my ISP's pop account and puts it into thunderbird. it also servers the purpose of delivering my machine's logifiles, via movemail, into thunderbird..
[03:30:20] <higuita> again: allow the postfix to accept emails for your IP (if your is is secure, like a local network) or configure it to accept email after the SASL auth. then after postfix have the mail queued, it will send via smarthost to the ISP. the ISP might need to do auth via "client SASL" to accept the email
[03:30:38] <babble> but i do not have something configured for delivering mail, or if it is so delivered, then there may be a firewall issue blocking my sending.
[03:30:39] <higuita> you have to google all three steps
[03:31:17] <seekwill> lol
[03:31:36] <babble> seekwill?
[03:32:18] <seekwill> Don't mind me.
[03:32:37] <lunaphyte> go install msmtp and configure it to submit mail to your isp. then configure thunderbird to use /usr/bin/sendmail
[03:32:59] <jimpop> or google "smtp proxy"
[03:33:32] <babble> let me ask this question in a different way. is there a "sendmail" component in postfix, which i can point another mail program at. higuita, i do not really understand how to go about the procedure you just outlined.
[03:33:46] <lunaphyte> go install msmtp and configure it to submit mail to your isp. then configure thunderbird to use /usr/bin/sendmail
[03:33:55] <jimpop> or babble on
[03:34:03] <babble> lunaphyte, now you are saying something i start to understand... :)
[03:34:30] <lunaphyte> [02:27am] lunaphyte: !tell babble nullclient
[03:35:56] <babble> lunaphyte, i have to suppose that you may very well be giving me a great solution with that nullclient thing, but i do not understand it like that. what you said a moment ago, is now more intelligible to me, however...
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[03:36:23] <lunaphyte> "see !nullclient_software for more details."
[03:36:27] <lunaphyte> so then you go
[03:36:34] <lunaphyte> !nullclient_software
[03:36:34] <knoba> lunaphyte: "nullclient_software" : a program that serves as a drop in replacement for /usr/sbin/sendmail and provides a simple means to submit messages to an existing msa without the need to install and maintain a full-blown mta/msa. examples include msmtp, esmtp, ssmtp and nullmailer. also see !msa
[03:36:46] <babble> i need to see whether msmtp is something i can find for OS now
[03:36:48] <lunaphyte> and then you go "hmm, interesting. what is msmtp?"
[03:36:52] <lunaphyte> and then you go read about it.
[03:37:00] <lunaphyte> and then you realize what it is
[03:37:16] <babble> no, i undestand what msmtp is
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[03:38:08] <babble> you are saying that it is a nullclient, and now i got you with that idea.
[03:38:32] <seekwill> lunaphyte: I got you, man, I got you
[03:39:01] * jimpop thinks lunaphyte is no adaptr
[03:39:13] <seekwill> What is an adaptr ?
[03:40:58] <babble> hey, guess what, lunaphyte. msmtp is available as a download from repo with my OS!
[03:41:55] <babble> do you suppose that there will be a conflict with postfix if i leave it on the system?
[03:42:12] <lunaphyte> completely purge postfix
[03:42:32] <babble> first, before downloading?
[03:42:38] <lunaphyte> do not wonder or wiat to see if there will be a conflict. instead, ensure there will not be
[03:42:42] <lunaphyte> *wait
[03:42:51] <higuita> babble: postfix will install the /usr/sbin/sendmail ... but if you only need it, nullclient is really what you want... but a nullclient will not enable you to send emails via thunderbird, it can only deliver via smtp (AFAIK, i could be wrong)
[03:43:29] <babble> well, that does seem inadequate
[03:43:33] <lunaphyte> then thunderbird can be configured just like msmtp.
[03:43:40] <jimpop> or google "smtp proxy"
[03:43:51] <lunaphyte> both can be configured to submit mail to the isp's msa
[03:44:12] <higuita> babble: i would say you need to read more how email work if you want to go deeper in to the email... :)
[03:44:48] <babble> right now thunderbird recieves mail from Fetchmail via movemail, and several of my system logs, etc, are delivered to thunderbird with it as well.
[03:45:00] <babble> i do not want to lose that functionality
[03:45:32] <seekwill> Yay! Now we start hearing details!
[03:45:40] <higuita> :)
[03:46:15] <babble> lunaphyte, what about my receiving messages and mail with fetchmail right now. would that stop when i remove postfix?
[03:47:17] <higuita> babble: you can setup the fetchmail to use procmail
[03:47:46] <higuita> if you are right now using postfix to deliver the email: http://linuxpoison.blogspot.com/2007/12/make-fetchmail-deliver-via-procmail.html
[03:48:09] <higuita> but again, i already gave you all the info...
[03:48:33] <babble> higuita, i do not understand most of what you said. sorry. :)
[03:49:10] <babble> lunaphyte, would removing postfix break fetchmail?
[03:49:23] <higuita> if you are only talking about localhost connections to deliver email, you probably already have step 1... step 2 is just a line and google for "smarthost postfix" will give you the anwser in 2 seconds
[03:50:27] <higuita> step 3 is not that different... you just have to google it, change a few options and create a file
[03:51:59] <higuita> babble: you didnt understand... that is why you need to read a little more about email and how it works
[03:52:04] <higuita> start here: http://www.postfix.org/BASIC_CONFIGURATION_README.html
[03:53:01] <babble> okay, thank you for the good pointers, higuita.
[03:53:18] <higuita> this is not hard, but if you dont know the basic, you will never understand what people say, nor what webpages might give to you
[03:53:28] <babble> i think lunaphyte is broken.
[03:54:45] <babble> it is difficult when linux is already a bit of a challenge. in windows i can do this sort of thing just fine, but linux is not nearly as easy to work with for me anyway.
[03:55:21] <jimpop> babble: there's always #linux to help you
[03:55:39] <higuita> one clean thing you should know is that you should never open your port 25 to the work (to receive emails from outside) without having sure that you know how the email works and that you have it well configured
[03:55:57] <higuita> and even after that, do a openrelay test : http://www.mailradar.com/openrelay/
[03:56:51] <babble> i have no intention of running a mail server or needing to open port 25 to accept emails from the internet.
[03:56:53] <higuita> openrelay is a mail server that allows anyone to send emails... very bad, as it will be VERY abused by spammer
[03:57:20] <seekwill> I'm an open relay
[03:57:44] <babble> i simply want to send mail via different programs to different servers on occassion.
[03:58:02] <higuita> i understand, but i need to warn you about this anyway... better warn you without needing than to have one more openrelay on the net
[03:58:13] <higuita> seekwill: localhost doesnt count! :P
[03:58:27] <seekwill> oh
[04:00:16] <babble> is there a concensus that i should remove postfix before installing msmtp, or should i first try to install it and see if it works? lunaphyte was rather emphatic about avoiding a conflict, but he appears to have vamoosed before i could fully develop that idea with him.
[04:00:38] <seekwill> Remove it
[04:01:05] <jimpop> babble: depends on the OS dependencies
[04:01:14] <babble> will doing so break fetchmail?
[04:01:29] <jimpop> some distros will allow you to remove pkgs that other pkgs depend on, but most wont
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[04:01:43] <seekwill> You remove it, then install it. Your package manager should handle the deps
[04:01:51] <seekwill> Remove postfix, install msmtp
[04:02:08] <babble> this OS is careful about dependencies from my experience with it.
[04:02:08] <jimpop> babble: i don't know enough about your OS, versions, other pkgs, or experiences, to tell you what to do
[04:02:34] <babble> no problem, jimpop. thanks.
[04:03:45] <babble> i am going to give this a try. thanks for the help. i sure wonder about lunaphyte?
[04:06:22] <seekwill> babble: What OS?
[04:06:29] <babble> opensuse
[04:06:42] <seekwill> I don't know SuSE sorry!
[04:07:19] <babble> thanks for the time and information, folks. bye for now.
[04:07:23] <higuita> babble: next time dont "hide" info... all this could be faster and easier for you if you said exactly what is your current config (including OS and distro, pastebin of current config, side apps and special needs) and exactly what you need to do (like lunaphyte was always asking)
[04:07:57] <higuita> its easier for us to help if we have more info than guessing (as we done this time ) :)
[04:08:24] <babble> got it. thanks.
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[06:18:01] <jimpop> if you're bored... here's some live footage of an airplane being lifted by crane
[06:18:05] <jimpop> http://www.myfoxny.com/subindex/video/skyfoxhd
[06:18:39] <jimpop> story: http://www.myfoxny.com/dpp/news/emergency-landing-at-newark-liberty-airport-20120227-akd
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[06:43:39] <babble> higuita, i want to talk to you some more about something if you are good with that?
[06:46:13] <babble> jimpop, are you preoccupied right now?
[06:57:35] <babble> if i simply need the sendmail executable component for another mail client to reference, do i really need to install and configure postfix for that to work?
[06:59:00] <jimpop> !tell babble nullclient
[06:59:00] <knoba> babble: "nullclient" : a null client is a computer that can only send mail. it receives no mail from the network, and it does not deliver any mail locally. while postfix can be configured to fill this role, it is often unnecessary overkill, and a much simpler software package is more appropriate. see !nullclient_software for more details.
[06:59:16] <jimpop> babble: nullclients have sendmail binaries
[07:00:41] <babble> that appears plainly enough to answer the question with a "no" i do not need postfix for this purpose only.
[07:03:58] <babble> let me accept that for a moment, and now ask another question. why am i able to use, for example, thunderbird in Windows, which can deliver and send mail and news, to various smtp and nntp servers, without, as far as i know, even having a null-client installed. what am i missing in this linux scenario that the windows enviroment is not missing?
[07:05:51] <jimpop> babble: linux has many such clients, including thunderbird. Also look at Evolution
[07:07:22] <jimpop> http://email.about.com/od/linuxemailclients/tp/Linux-UNIX-Email-Clients-fo---.htm
[07:07:24] <babble> i understand that. are you suggesting the use of the null-client is only necessary because i said i want a sendmail component?
[07:07:31] <jimpop> yes
[07:08:56] <babble> so, if i wanted to forego the sendmail component, i would not need either it or postfix, in order to use thunderbird as i do in the Windows machine?
[07:09:42] <jimpop> correct
[07:10:31] <babble> do you know whether removing postfix would disable fetchmail?
[07:11:26] <jimpop> iirc, it should not. but that depends a lot on your distro and it's dependencies
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[07:16:23] <babble> when i use the package manager just now to indicate that i want to remove postfix, it tells me that it wants to install exim in order to fix some dependencies. i am not sure what that is about... seems like i am turning in six of one thing to get half-dozen of another one. know what i mean?
[07:16:45] <jimpop> yep
[07:17:04] <jimpop> things like cron and logcheck usually depend on an MTA
[07:17:16] <jimpop> debian defaults to Exim for an MTA... so that could be it
[07:18:11] <babble> they use these programs to put system messages into my mailbox?
[07:18:50] <jimpop> yes
[07:19:08] <jimpop> which is stupid IMHO ;-)
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[07:19:35] <jimpop> i usually remove Exim/Postfix and anything they depend on, when i install a new linux client
[07:20:43] <babble> how do you handle the cron and logcheck procedures after removing them?
[07:20:59] <jimpop> i don't ;-)
[07:21:17] <jimpop> i do manual updates (instead of auto-updates)
[07:21:31] <jimpop> and things like mlocate/updatedb I do manually
[07:21:57] <jimpop> sorry, btw I meant logrotate, not logwatch.
[07:22:02] <jimpop> *logcheck
[07:23:03] <babble> do you think the presence of this program, exim, would prevent me from using thunderbird or from using the sendmail component? can i not just leave the exim program unconfigured for mailing and use the other procedures instead?
[07:24:04] <jimpop> to be honest, i'm not 100% sure. However, you can disable Exim from starting up, but doing that depends on the linux distro (i.e. /etc/init.d/* startup scripts)
[07:24:58] <babble> do you mean from starting up as a daemon when the machine starts up?
[07:25:03] <jimpop> yes
[07:25:50] <babble> i believe that i have just gotten postfix from starting up like that, with the help of some guys over in the linux channel
[07:27:28] <babble> if that is all i need to do to eliminate a conflict, i should be fine, it would seem. apparently that did not create an issue with cron and logcheck and such, because i saw no objection or warning about dependencies. what do you think?
[07:29:43] <jimpop> sounds good
[07:30:37] <babble> if i have a program that wants to access the sendmail component, then apparently there needs to be a sendmail config file set up so that the program will use it to know which smtp server to connect with. is that not right?
[07:31:38] <jimpop> yes
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[07:32:51] <hex20dec> It's been about 40 something hours that I'm awake trying fix this mail server and it keeps giving me problems, I need help desperately, is anyone willing to help set it up the right way? Please don't ask what is the problem, because I messed with so much settings that nothing is working now. Please, I'm begging.
[07:35:01] <babble> since i am having so much difficulty with the postfix configuration and since it is now disabled from starting automatically, then it seems like i could leave it as is and let it take care of the cron and syslog procedures as it needs to. and i could install msmtp, configure it for the external server i want to use and i could configure thunderbird for the external servers it needs.
[07:35:50] <hex20dec> Please, anyone?
[07:36:02] <babble> that way i would not have to fight with postfix and i could get my connectivity to external smtp servers. seems like a plan to me. see any problems with that idea?
[07:36:30] <jimpop> babble: no problems that I see.... but it does seem quite complicated
[07:37:19] <babble> it does not seem as complicated to me as this blasted postfix configuration, which is busting my balls frankly.
[07:37:30] <seekwill> hex20dec: Hire someone?
[07:41:42] <babble> i am going to give this a try. it can't hurt. at this point i need to try something and i am not in the postfix training mode, because i have to take care other things.
[07:47:31] <babble> okay, fetchmail seems to be functional still. that is a good start.
[07:47:54] <babble> how can i verify that postfix is not started as a daemon right now?
[07:48:05] <hex20dec> seekwill, if I had the money, I would.
[07:48:14] <hex20dec> seekwill, trust me, I would.
[07:48:20] <jimpop> babble: ps -ef | grep postfix
[07:48:44] <babble> as root or as my standard login?
[07:48:50] <jimpop> either one
[07:49:08] <rob0> hex20dec, consider outsourcing such as free hosting like Google Apps.
[07:49:30] <jimpop> babble: it may still be running if you only disabled the auto-start but didn't stop it
[07:50:01] <babble> i believe i disabled autostart, and i just rebooted
[07:50:09] <jimpop> that should do it
[07:50:11] <jimpop> ;-)
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[07:50:36] <babble> what should i see with that command if it is running as daemon?
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[07:51:00] <jimpop> a lot of stuff
[07:51:08] <jimpop> lots of postfix related processes
[07:51:15] <jimpop> too many to paste here
[07:51:36] <jimpop> the main one would be this:
[07:51:38] <jimpop> root 6527 1 0 Feb21 ? 00:00:25 /usr/lib/postfix/master
[07:51:52] <jimpop> with different ^^ process numbers
[07:51:54] <jimpop> and dates
[07:51:55] <babble> what i saw on the response was one line like this: 5258 5246 0 00:49 pts/0 00:00:00 grep postfix
[07:52:42] <babble> i surely did not see a lot of stuff
[07:52:42] <jimpop> that's just the process of the grep command that you ran
[07:53:02] <jimpop> everything, *everything* on linux is a process or a file
[07:53:31] <babble> so it appears not to be running right now, but fetchmail just did its thing fine
[07:53:40] <jimpop> sounds goo
[07:53:47] <babble> thunderbird operates
[07:55:29] <babble> now i need to find this msmtp program and configure its config file for accessing the external server, then point my other mail program at its sendmail to see how that goes. i could also go into thunderbird now and see about setting up some accounts for mail and such to see how they work.
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[08:02:34] <sysmonk> morning
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[08:25:03] <BuenGenio> hello
[08:25:05] <BuenGenio> we suddenly started getting a lot of chinese spam through (like 10-20 emails per day), which don't score much and trigger very few tests
[08:25:12] <BuenGenio> how can we protect against spam like this? http://pastebin.com/fuNcH735
[08:25:17] <BuenGenio> this one even managed to score negative! http://pastebin.com/QFZccL4t
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[10:10:17] <nveid> some reason I'm not getting any mail from yahoo or google
[10:10:27] <nveid> its odd.. usually i have problems the reverse..
[10:10:32] <nveid> i turned off all my rbls
[10:11:10] <nveid> and honestly.. i don't even see the mails coming in
[10:11:28] <higuita> nveid: try to send one email from those and see what the bounce message say
[10:11:46] <higuita> if you dont even see connection tries, check your MXs
[10:12:37] <nveid> my MX and A record for the MX is fine
[10:13:03] <higuita> BuenGenio: filename=�ܡ���{�੩��ҳ�.xls seens like a good place to start... filter out emails with strange characters (one or many)
[10:16:08] <nveid> hrm getting a milter reject
[10:16:37] <nveid> thought my milters just suppose to filter outgoing
[10:17:22] <nveid> and this: nm23.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com[98.139.91.93]: 451 4.7.1 Service unavailable - try again later
[10:19:14] <nveid> not getting a mail back from that sendmail address either
[10:19:27] <nveid> but its weird.. cause I AM getting mails from other places
[10:22:45] <nveid> k.. i turn dkim-filter off and it magickally works...
[10:22:52] <nveid> odd, never had problems with my dkim milter before
[10:28:32] <nveid> seems the only thing that is different is really now i'm using smtp_bind_address
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[10:33:07] <nveid> wtf.. why the hell is yahoo & gmail getting milter rejects
[10:33:19] <nveid> this really gets me: milter-reject: END-OF-MESSAGE from nm28.bullet.mail.sp2.yahoo.com[98.139.91.98]: 4.7.1 Service unavailable - try again later;
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[10:44:13] <sbtr__> I want a sender to only be able to send to specific adresses
[10:45:00] <nveid> think i'm switching to exim
[10:45:22] <nveid> it has dkims built into it.. don't have to rely on gluing the spearate piece into it
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[11:14:47] <wdp> seekwill, around?
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[11:31:15] <jelly> no seekwill no cpm no moustache
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[12:46:13] <ft_mn> Hi all, I have succesfully mounted the Postfix on a linux box and I can send emails through it to my real email adress, now is it somehow possible to send emails from my original mail adress (lets say my hotmail adress) to the postfix account??
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[12:54:38] <sbtr__> ft_mn: you need a MX record in the DNS-server for your domain
[13:00:04] <ft_mn> sbtr_: ok man thanx
[13:00:20] <ft_mn> b
[13:00:22] <ft_mn> b
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[14:30:41] <Florian`> hi, I have a smtp/verify question, that's not really postfix but I need opinions from smtp experts before getting crazy.
[14:34:16] <Florian`> I found out some MX try to validate my "MAIL FROM:" user by connecting not to the used public IP but to the DNS MX of the "MAIL FROM:" domain and try to validate that user on this MX, is that a RFC or just a paranoiac thing ? Why should my dns mx also be my outgoing smtp server ?
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[14:37:14] <lunaphyte_> performing in band sender verification like that is stupid
[14:37:41] <lunaphyte_> it's almost always a good indication that the operator of the mail server is clueless.
[14:37:57] <lunaphyte_> given that, don't tear your hair out trying to figure out their motives or methods.
[14:38:28] <Florian`> I assumed so, what the hell is wrong with mta admins, all of them are just doing things like they want and not like the rfc stated, I'm getting crazy because I'm delivering mails for ~10 différent domains that I don't control and that requires 6 month to add a dns A entry.
[14:38:44] <lunaphyte_> that aside, to perform sender verification, connecting to the mx of the referenced domain *is* what makes sense.
[14:40:06] <Florian`> yeah I guess, so when you start delivering mails for a domain you don't control you have to tell their admins to create fake accounts in their infrastructure
[14:40:23] <lunaphyte_> um...
[14:40:27] <lunaphyte_> fake accounts?
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[14:41:32] <Florian`> I'm only delivering "do_not_reply@" emails so no-one needs to answers, so I was saying fake accounts just to have verifiers happy when issuing RCPT TO:
[14:41:44] <Florian`> did I miss something ?
[14:41:55] <lunaphyte_> while it's quite rude to perform sender verification like that [and little more than a form of dos'ing], addresses used in envelope senders should *absolutely* be valid, real addresses.
[14:42:06] <jelly> well, emails SHOULD have valid envelope-from
[14:42:54] <jelly> if nothing else, for DSN processing
[14:42:59] <Florian`> okay maybe I mis-used a few words, not sure what I meant by fake account just an account that doesn't answer "550 Recipient address rejected:" but not a real one as no-one will ever read it.
[14:43:14] <lunaphyte_> that's different.
[14:43:31] <lunaphyte_> that's exactly why the sender verification is failing.
[14:43:42] <lunaphyte_> 550 means sneder address verification failed
[14:43:48] <Florian`> I know ofc
[14:43:49] <lunaphyte_> *sender
[14:43:50] <jelly> (and technically, if noone ever reads the response, it means they don't care if it sent out properly or not, so you might as well reject them ;-)
[14:44:04] <Florian`> I was calling "fake account" creating an account that will just exists so that it doesn't 550 anymore
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[14:44:23] <lunaphyte_> well, it really should be ultimately managed by a human, in some capacity.
[14:44:39] <lunaphyte_> even if it's a secretary sifting through it once a week and deleting everything.
[14:44:56] <lunaphyte_> or even responsible use of some sort of bounce processing software.
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[14:55:19] <Florian`> lunaphyte_ okay, thank your for those clarifications.
[14:56:46] <Florian`> between this "issue", MX using the PTR entry for my public outgoing smtp server (not sure what they are looking for btw), it's really hard to have a good overview of all the possible problems for delivering mails for not-controller domains.
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[15:10:07] <lunaphyte_> np, yw
[15:10:29] <lunaphyte_> MX using the PTR entry for my public outgoing smtp server?
[15:10:32] <lunaphyte_> i'm not sure what you mean
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[15:15:31] <Florian`> lunaphyte_ yeah my sentence was not correct, I was trying to say that I think when I connect to some MX, they perform a reverse dns on my public ip address and I think, try to match a PTR entry with the domain of the "MAIL FROM:"
[15:15:41] <lunaphyte_> oh, sure.
[15:16:08] <Florian`> but since anyone can add any PTR entry, it doesn't really make sense but I guess it's a way to detect lazy spammers.
[15:18:29] <Florian`> now my public ip has up to 10 PTR entry, yay :|
[15:18:49] <lunaphyte_> there should be only 1 ptr per address
[15:19:04] <Florian`> per domain I deliver mail for, yeah
[15:20:27] <lunaphyte_> no
[15:20:29] <lunaphyte_> no
[15:20:31] <lunaphyte_> bah
[15:20:33] <lunaphyte_> there should be only 1 ptr per address
[15:20:59] <Dominian> Why would anyone be able to add PTR records?
[15:21:10] <Florian`> so I should buy two /24 if I want to send emails for 25 domains ? :o
[15:21:13] <Dominian> The only person capable of that is the entity that 'owns' the IP address.
[15:21:21] <lunaphyte_> heavens no
[15:21:22] <Florian`> Dominian: that's wrong
[15:21:28] <Dominian> Florian`: uh no.
[15:21:32] <lunaphyte_> Florian`: no, that's right
[15:21:38] <Dominian> Florian`: You're thinking of A records
[15:21:38] <Florian`> oh yes.
[15:21:40] <Florian`> no.
[15:21:51] <Florian`> we all agree here, sorry.
[15:21:54] <Dominian> If I had your IP I could create an A record on my domain pointing at it
[15:22:01] <Dominian> but I can NOT add my domain name to your PTR record for said IP
[15:22:05] <Florian`> I mean a spammer can add any PTR entry on it's public IP.
[15:22:13] <Dominian> of course
[15:22:18] <Florian`> but not on a zombie box, true.
[15:22:39] <Florian`> anyway, lunaphyte_ I don't get your last point
[15:23:09] <lunaphyte_> it's all a sad side effect of vanity.
[15:23:15] <Florian`> lunaphyte_: my outgoing smtp delivers mails for 10 domains so I added 10 PTR records, are you telling me I should only have 1 PTR per IP and 10 public ips?
[15:23:34] <lunaphyte_> no.
[15:23:35] <Dominian> I host email for quite a few domains and have ONE PTR record
[15:23:36] <lunaphyte_> 1 ip and 1 ptr
[15:24:00] <Florian`> ok, so I don't get how this verification works
[15:24:15] <Florian`> if you send mail for foo at example dot com and your IP reverse to bar.com, how does that help the remote MX
[15:24:56] <sp00kz> foobar.com has an MX pointing to mx01.fubar.com which resolves to 1.2.3.4
[15:25:04] <sp00kz> 1.2.3.4 reverse dns' to mx01.fubar.com
[15:25:59] <sp00kz> all that matters is the IP of the MX's forward & reverse match
[15:26:10] <Florian`> Sure, but my outgoing smtp server is not my dns MX and I think some MX analyze the PTR entry for my outgoing smtp server IP. Am I missing something ?
[15:26:27] <sp00kz> you don't need to second guess antispam systems
[15:26:36] <sp00kz> you need to be compliant
[15:26:58] <lunaphyte_> !tell sp00kz example
[15:26:59] <knoba> sp00kz: "example" : Example.TLD has been reserved for examples in generic top-level domains (com,net,org) and many other TLDs. Please do not use real Internet names as examples.
[15:27:08] <sp00kz> sorry =P
[15:27:22] <Florian`> I understand you in case of trying to match MX domain name and MX IP, sure. I'm talking about ppl reversing my outgoing smtp server adresse, what are they looking for
[15:27:44] <Florian`> my english might be to blame, sorry if that's the case.
[15:28:00] <sp00kz> they're looking to confirm your banner hostname matches your forward & reverse DNS on your IP
[15:28:50] <Florian`> it can't since I'm delivering mails for 10 domains and I only have one banner
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[15:29:00] <Florian`> I'll reread some postfix manuals.
[15:29:17] <sp00kz> your banner doesn't have to change for a multi domain system
[15:29:19] <Florian`> Junior admin here, trying to get a good overview of "what ppl do that is not in the SMTP protocol"...
[15:29:42] <sp00kz> you first need to understand how to be compiant
[15:29:49] <sp00kz> before you start delving into what people do that's not
[15:30:02] <Florian`> I guess, my dns are a mess I thnk
[15:30:48] <sp00kz> each smtp server should have a static single ip, and a static hostname that matches it's helo
[15:30:57] <sp00kz> any sub domains or other domains that use that smtp server are irrelevant
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[15:32:01] <Florian`> so when the MX of example.com reverse my public IP, you said I should only have one reverse, say foobar.com which has nothing do to with example.com, they just want to see if my banner also is foobar.com ? how does that tell them I can't deliver emails for example.com
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[15:34:59] <sp00kz> so if the smtp's helo name, dns forward&reverse are on example.com, and foobar's mx's point at it, that's telling you that foobar recieves mail through example.com
[15:35:32] <sp00kz> as for sending, you would have to add spf records if you think they would help to tell the world where your domain sends from
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[15:39:53] <Florian`> god this is complicated, I'll rerereread your statements but it doesn't match my case I think.
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[15:57:15] <corretico> hi
[15:57:19] <corretico> I need assistance
[15:57:35] <corretico> I get this error when I try to send an email using postfix
[15:57:55] <corretico> ........... said: 550 5.7.1 Error: content rejected (in reply to end of DATA command)
[16:06:10] <_TheAvatar> "v=spf1 a mx include:aspmx.googlemail.com include:cmail1.com include:mail.art-at-home.dk include:mail1.eushells.com -all" - Is this a valid SPF record? Allowing mail that matches (a/mx) mail.art-at-home.dk, google, eushells.com and cmail1.com as sender?
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[18:33:10] <epaphus> Hello...Postfix is sending out email @internal.name.lan ... where can i change this?
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[18:39:37] <patdk-lap> epaphus, in where ever the email is being sent
[18:39:47] <patdk-lap> !myorigan
[18:39:47] <knoba> patdk-lap: Error: "myorigan" is not a valid command.
[18:39:50] <patdk-lap> heh
[18:41:16] <lunaphyte_> !myorgan
[18:41:17] <knoba> lunaphyte_: Error: "myorgan" is not a valid command.
[18:41:41] <sysmonk> :))
[18:41:47] <lunaphyte_> better yet, just properly address the message in the first place
[18:41:56] <sysmonk> !lunpahyte's_organ
[18:41:56] <knoba> sysmonk: Error: "lunpahyte's_organ" is not a valid command.
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[20:07:30] <lolmatic> hi
[20:07:53] <lolmatic> is the default configuration of postfix safe so noone can use it as an smtp relay from external sources?
[20:08:15] <lolmatic> i mean can it only be accessed from localhost?
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[20:10:24] <dantix> Hi all, I tested the DSN capability of my postfix server from telnet adding to rcpt to line notify=success and woks fine. Now I need to ask postfix for a delivery status notification from a application. I can pass to this application TO, FROM , SUBJECT... Added on TO parameter notify=success,failure with no luck because postfix takes notify=success as a 2nd email address. Why is happening all this? How can I use DSN from my application?
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[20:41:08] <danblack> lolmatic: yes default is safe and realy is from whatever mynetworks is
[20:45:51] <danblack> dantix: if you are using the sendmail command from the application look at the man page of postfix's sendmail namely the -N and -V arguments.
[20:46:04] <danblack> i've never tried it so good luck.
[20:48:05] <dantix> danblack: unfortunelly is a canned application, but I believe the explanation is: notify is a parameter of rcpt to field no from FROM field, something to do with smtp envelope...
[20:48:12] <dantix> thanks anyway
[20:49:25] <danblack> your right
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[21:27:20] <jwing> With Postfix 2.5.. & smtpd_tls_security_level = may, is there any way to prevent the use of SSLv2?
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[21:30:54] <lunaphyte_> sure
[21:30:59] <lunaphyte_> !tell jwing tls
[21:31:00] <knoba> jwing: "tls" : Transport Layer Security (RFC2246). Previously known as SSL, TLS adds a layer of encryption to protocols such as SMTP, submission, IMAP or POP3 to improve security during transmission over the Internet. TLS is implemented using the STARTTLS method, while the non-standard wrapper style of implementation is deprecated at this point. See http://www.postfix.org/TLS_README.html for more info.
[21:32:13] <jwing> right.. I've got a tls setup via starttls
[21:32:26] <jwing> but, our scans are complaining about sslv2 being allowed.
[21:32:51] <lunaphyte_> yes, the question was clear
[21:32:52] <jwing> What I'm reading seems to indicate that w/ opportunistic tls, we have no option but to support SSLv2
[21:33:35] <lunaphyte_> what indicates that?
[21:34:18] <jwing> With mandatory TLS encryption, the Postfix SMTP server will by default only use SSLv3 or TLSv1. SSLv2 is only used when TLS encryption is optional. The mandatory TLS protocol list is specified via the smtpd_tls_mandatory_protocols configuration parameter. The corresponding smtpd_tls_protocols parameter (Postfix ≥ 2.6) controls the SSL/TLS protocols used with opportunistic TLS.
[21:34:34] <jwing> http://www.postfix.org/TLS_README.html#server_cipher
[21:34:47] <jwing> note that I don't have postfix 2.6
[21:34:50] <jwing> we are at 2.5
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[21:36:57] <jwing> I've set the smtpd_tls_mandatory_protocols to "SSLv3, TLSv1" as well as "!SSLv2, SSLv3, TLSv1"
[21:37:04] <jwing> scans still say we are allowing ssl v2
[21:41:34] <pj> jwing: re-read that paragraph you just quoted from the docs
[21:41:38] <pj> your answer is there.
[21:42:07] <pj> specifically re-read the last sentence
[21:42:49] <jwing> Yeah.. it's saying a parameter (only offered in >= 2.6) controls the ssl/tls protocols used w/ opportunistic TLS.
[21:43:03] <jwing> which seems to indicate we are out of luck since we are at 2.5
[21:44:06] <pj> oh, you're correct
[21:44:10] <jwing> It doesn't say that < 2.6, any other parameter is usable. :/
[21:44:12] <pj> so you need to upgrade postfix, then.
[21:44:24] <jwing> yeah.. not an option. :(
[21:45:05] * jwing just passed on the info to our security guys and they can chew on it.
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[21:45:33] <pj> well then email the scanning authority and explain to them that since one option is to not have any encryption at all it's hardly going to be any worse to have bad encryption.
[21:46:11] <jwing> yeah.. either force all encryption or live w/ less then perfect
[21:46:27] <pj> right, if you can't upgrade then you're SOL, unfortunately.
[21:46:32] * jwing nods
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[21:47:32] <pj> anyways, I have to go
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[21:49:10] <jwing> thanks :)
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[23:53:44] <WhoNeedszzz> Hey all
[23:54:52] <WhoNeedszzz> So i run Arch and was checking my pacnew files and i realized there was a new configuration for postfix main.cf (among others). In my old main.cf i had a whole block of smtp and smtpd entries. They are no longer there in the new configuration. Are they not necessary anymore?
[23:59:59] <lunaphyte> pastebin
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   February 28, 2012  
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