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   February 26, 2012  
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[00:40:22] <Dev0n> hey, I have header_checks = pcre:/etc/postfix/header-check set in main.cf and file with content: /^Received: .*/ IGNORE
[00:40:38] <Dev0n> but when checking the headers on sent emails, I'm still seing the Received headers
[00:40:49] <Dev0n> (restarted postfix deamon etc)
[00:40:52] <Dev0n> after editing files
[00:41:38] <jimpop> !tell Dev0n smtp_header_checks
[00:41:39] <knoba> jimpop: Error: No factoid matches that key.
[00:41:42] <jimpop> doh
[00:41:49] <jimpop> Dev0n: you want smtp_header_checks
[00:41:53] <Dev0n> smtp_header_checks = pcre:/etc/postfix/header-check
[00:41:57] <Dev0n> I also have that in there
[00:42:02] <Dev0n> sorry forgot mention
[00:42:05] <Dev0n> so both of those
[00:42:14] <Dev0n> header_checks and smtp_header_checks
[00:42:19] <jimpop> ok
[00:42:23] <Dev0n> with value pcre:/etc/postfix/header-check
[00:42:36] <jimpop> should work then
[00:43:02] <Dev0n> yea :( but for some reason, the Received: header is still there :/
[00:43:06] <Dev0n> on new emails
[00:44:05] <jimpop> do you have anything unusual set up in master.cf (i.e. no_header_body_checks)
[00:45:26] <Dev0n> no, I haven't touched the master.cf file and there is no "no_header_body_check"
[00:48:04] <rob0> you want to strip out Received headers on the way out? Why?
[00:49:11] <Patrickdk> cause people really don't understand what their purpose is
[00:49:22] <Dev0n> because I'm behind a webserver that is in a reverse proxy setup
[00:49:33] <Patrickdk> so?
[00:49:40] <Dev0n> I would love for someway to have postfix use the reverse proxy IP
[00:49:44] <Dev0n> but I don't think that's possible
[00:49:50] <Dev0n> so next step was to hide it
[00:49:57] <Patrickdk> postfix will use whatever you tell it to use
[00:50:20] <Dev0n> how though ?
[00:50:34] <Dev0n> the receved headder is already failing on me
[00:50:47] <Patrickdk> how does a received header fail?
[00:51:22] <jimpop> when admins spell it as Recieved:
[00:51:28] <jimpop> spammers too!
[00:51:41] <Dev0n> http://blog.tenak.net/2011/04/2011-04-dont-send-client-ip-postfix.html
[00:51:51] <Dev0n> that's what I did Patrickdk
[00:52:09] <Dev0n> which obviously didn't work because I can still see the webserver IP in the Recieved header
[00:52:17] <Dev0n> which is what I meany by it failed
[00:52:19] <Dev0n> meant*
[00:52:24] <Patrickdk> that works fine :)
[00:52:34] <Patrickdk> but that blog post is totally wrong :)
[00:52:40] <Dev0n> oh?
[00:52:45] <Patrickdk> oh wait, it's fine
[00:52:49] <Patrickdk> you probably did it wrong
[00:52:54] <Patrickdk> have you followed the channel rules yet?
[00:53:00] <Patrickdk> cause I haven't sen you do that at all
[00:53:45] <Dev0n> sorry, sec
[00:53:47] <Dev0n> !debug
[00:53:47] <knoba> Dev0n: "debug" : http://www.postfix.org/DEBUG_README.html : a good starting point for how to deal with problems and to report information to those who might help. Post your information in a pastebin such as http://pastebin.ca/ or http://dpaste.com/
[00:54:30] <Dev0n> postconf -n : http://dpaste.com/708005/
[00:55:01] <Dev0n> header-check file : http://dpaste.com/708007/
[00:59:19] <Dev0n> log file : http://dpaste.com/708008/
[01:00:37] <Dev0n> does the conf and header- check files look ok so far Patrickdk ?
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[01:01:55] <Patrickdk> all look fine
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[01:02:45] <Dev0n> :(
[01:02:46] <Dev0n> damn
[01:02:53] <Patrickdk> no freaking clue why you would want to do what is in your config file though, at all
[01:04:40] <Dev0n> you mean remove Recieved header ?
[01:05:15] <Patrickdk> that too
[01:06:17] <Dev0n> how would I mask it then?
[01:06:34] <Dev0n> so I could try and set it as the reverse proxy ip (frontend) at least
[01:07:04] <Patrickdk> ok, I have no idea why yours *won't work*, cause it works fine for me
[01:07:07] <Patrickdk> but besides that
[01:07:15] <Patrickdk> WHY? what advantage will this give you?
[01:07:32] <Patrickdk> is showing that ip address going to harm you?
[01:07:43] <Patrickdk> is it going to give away vital company secrets?
[01:07:53] <Patrickdk> will it cause your email to be marked as spam?
[01:07:58] <Patrickdk> No, to all of those
[01:08:04] <Patrickdk> it has no freaking effect at all
[01:08:26] <Patrickdk> but it will help track down, what server got hacked into and infected
[01:10:50] <Dev0n> say someone is trying to hack in, why should I make their job easier by showing where the "real" stuff is
[01:11:03] <Patrickdk> heh? how does that *help them*?
[01:11:11] <rob0> um ...
[01:11:16] <Patrickdk> in order for them to use that info, they already had to have hacked your proxy
[01:11:22] <Patrickdk> and if they did that
[01:11:24] <Dev0n> yes, by the time they have did that
[01:11:28] <Patrickdk> using anything, like arp, would be easier
[01:11:34] <Dev0n> I might be in chance of takign the main webserver down
[01:11:36] <Patrickdk> and already know that info anyways
[01:11:43] <Patrickdk> heh?
[01:11:46] <seekwill> "Ok, first thing to hack into this system... parse email headers... check!"
[01:12:03] <rob0> You should chop off your own foot, so that when the enemy captures you, they have to drag you along.
[01:12:04] <Patrickdk> that ip address can be found a hundred different other ways, MUCH MUCH EASIER
[01:12:27] <seekwill> rob0: lol :)
[01:12:31] <Dev0n> lol
[01:12:43] <Dev0n> Patrickdk, I don't see anything else giving out that ip
[01:12:50] <Dev0n> apart from postfix
[01:13:09] <Patrickdk> probably over your web pages, and web headers
[01:13:16] <Dev0n> nope
[01:13:17] <Patrickdk> also arp
[01:13:21] <Patrickdk> also nmap
[01:13:35] <Patrickdk> the proxy might, dunno
[01:13:47] <Dev0n> nginx reverse proxy
[01:14:00] <Patrickdk> this is postfix, I dunno what nginx does
[01:14:03] <seekwill> Who cares about other services. It isn't email
[01:14:14] <Patrickdk> just giving the most common causes
[01:14:14] <Dev0n> just saying because he mentioned web headers
[01:14:30] <Dev0n> and nginx does a pretty good job of it
[01:14:31] <Patrickdk> web headers come from well, everything your cgi's, web servers, proxy, ...
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[02:33:29] <nveid> some reason my mail isn't binding to the IP address i'm telling it to
[02:34:55] <nveid> http://pastebin.com/AkNzcdNU
[02:35:56] <rob0> !smtp!=smtpd
[02:35:57] <knoba> rob0: "smtp!=smtpd" : Postfix smtp_* and smtpd_* configuration parameters have different meanings. smtp_ = client and smtpd_ = server, the client-side sends mail whilst the server-side receives mail. (smtp = client = sends mail) (smtpd = server = receives mail)
[02:37:46] <jimpop> ??
[02:38:44] <nveid> k.. i'll add it to the lower part
[02:38:48] <nveid> at smtpd
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[02:39:43] <jimpop> ??
[02:39:45] <rob0> smtp_* settings apply only to smtp(8) transports
[02:39:57] <rob0> smtpd_* settings apply only to smtpd(8) listeners
[02:40:01] <nveid> still nothing
[02:40:20] <jimpop> he's not using smtpD_*
[02:40:35] <jimpop> he's using smtp_bind_addres for smtp:
[02:40:39] <rob0> "-o smtp_foo" will not be used if set for smtpd
[02:41:44] <jimpop> nveid: do you have a different smtp_bind_addres setting in main.cf ?
[02:41:59] <nveid> nothing is set in main.cf
[02:42:12] <nveid> trying to go off the manual to add it in master.cf next to its declaration
[02:42:15] <jimpop> oh.. rob0 is right
[02:42:20] <nveid> would setting it in main.cf do it?
[02:42:35] <jimpop> nveid: you have smtpd at the end of the smtp line in master.cf
[02:42:56] * jimpop curses his netbooks
[02:43:06] * jimpop curses his netbook's small screen size
[02:43:31] <nveid> btw.. there is no mention of smtpd_bind in the manual
[02:43:34] <nveid> only smtp_bind_address
[02:43:41] <rob0> you tried to set "-o smtp_*" for two smtpd listeners, which as I said, does not work.
[02:44:05] <rob0> !smtp_bind_address
[02:44:06] <knoba> rob0: "smtp_bind_address" : a configuration parameter in the main.cf: An optional numerical network address that the SMTP client should bind to when making a connection.
[02:44:16] <rob0> !smtp_helo_name
[02:44:16] <knoba> rob0: "smtp_helo_name" : a configuration parameter in the main.cf: The hostname to send in the SMTP EHLO or HELO command. The default is $myhostname.
[02:45:37] <jimpop> nveid: and I'm fairly certain that line should be:
[02:45:39] <jimpop> smtp unix - - - - - smtp
[02:45:50] <nveid> moving it all to main.cf
[02:45:52] <jimpop> not
[02:45:54] <jimpop> smtp inet n - - - - smtpd
[02:45:54] <nveid> instead of in master.cf
[02:46:18] <rob0> or, if you want this to apply to all smtp(8) transports, put it in main.cf
[02:46:46] <nveid> the master.cf I believe is stock debian at the top there
[02:46:54] <nveid> don't think i modified those lines before
[02:47:04] <nveid> only thing I did was try to bind there
[02:47:43] <nveid> at least I don't remember modifying it before
[02:48:23] <Dev0n_> what kind of proxy works with smtpd_proxy_filter ?
[02:48:37] <rob0> !amavisd-new
[02:48:37] <knoba> rob0: "amavisd-new" : amavisd-new is a high-performance and reliable interface between mailer (MTA) and one or more content checkers. See http://www.ijs.si/software/amavisd/
[02:48:44] <rob0> Dev0n_, ^^
[02:49:10] <Dev0n_> oh
[02:49:20] <Dev0n_> I guess I'm looking at the wrong option
[02:49:29] <Dev0n_> thought it would allow me to proxy the smtp
[02:49:39] <rob0> !proxy
[02:49:39] <knoba> rob0: "proxy" : Before-queue content filtering in Postfix: http://www.postfix.org/SMTPD_PROXY_README.html
[02:49:48] <rob0> !smtpd_proxy_filter
[02:49:49] <knoba> rob0: "smtpd_proxy_filter" : a configuration parameter in the main.cf: The hostname and TCP port of the mail filtering filter proxy server. The proxy receives all mail from the Postfix SMTP server, and is supposed to give the result to another Postfix SMTP server process.
[02:50:12] <Dev0n_> hum
[02:50:33] <Dev0n_> so it would show the IP from the proxy instead of origin right ?
[02:50:35] <nveid> damn.. can't test to google anymore.. giving me a lost connection during reeting..
[02:50:51] <Dev0n_> but what kind of proxy is it exactly ?
[02:50:53] <Dev0n_> http, socks ?
[02:51:10] <rob0> um, "show"? Look at the SMTPD_PROXY_README.html if interested in before-queue content filtering.
[02:51:54] <jimpop> nveid: firewall? logs?
[02:52:06] <Dev0n_> rob0, I guess you can't use to hide the ip of origin ?
[02:52:25] <Dev0n_> I'm thinking it as a proxy... to hideips
[02:52:27] <Dev0n_> hide ips
[02:52:34] <nveid> one moment.. trying to see if I can send from another email possibly to test it
[02:52:39] <rob0> smtp_bind_address offer is void where taxed or prohibited, or if routing does not work from that address.
[02:53:29] <Dev0n_> meh
[02:53:42] <rob0> Dev0n_, smtpd_proxy_filter is for before-queue content filtering. For hiding the IP of origin, hire or build a botnet.
[02:54:15] <nveid> http://pastebin.com/v7Fx7g2z .. hopefully its just a normal defer
[02:54:17] <Dev0n_> I just want to use my frontend ip instead of the backend one :(
[02:54:19] <nveid> but i'm getting that iwth every message righ tnow
[02:54:24] <Dev0n_> idk why it's so hard
[02:54:39] <Dev0n_> like, is it not possible to run smtp or w/e through proxychains ?
[02:56:05] <rob0> nveid, my guess is that you did NOT want that smtp_bind_address to apply to all smtp, such as what sends to your content_filter.
[02:56:05] <jimpop> nveid: lost connection with[]
[02:56:11] <jimpop> nveid: that's your host
[02:56:13] <jimpop> :P
[02:56:31] <nveid> oh
[02:56:32] <jimpop> nveid: are you greylisting yourself?
[02:56:34] <nveid> i know what happened
[02:56:44] <nveid> i accidentally changed some config on my dkim filter connection i think
[02:57:06] <nveid> i think thats what I did.. i messed up my milter whil ei was screwing with stuff
[02:58:02] <nveid> nope..
[02:58:08] <nveid> changed that config back and still can't send
[02:59:08] <nveid> oh.. would smtp_bind_address = be blocking me from connection at as well?
[02:59:09] <Dev0n_> omfg
[02:59:11] <Dev0n_> I did it
[02:59:14] <Dev0n_> well I found the article
[02:59:19] <nveid> nope
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[02:59:41] <Dev0n_> for anyone that cares, http://benizi.com/postfix-proxychains
[03:00:53] <nveid> yep.. your righ tlooks like amavis is blocking me.. very odd
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[03:01:51] <rob0> Not necessarily blocking, although that is possible too. Might just be a routing problem.
[03:02:20] <nveid> amavis is logging DENID ACCESS from policy bank
[03:02:29] <rob0> ah, there you go.
[03:05:01] <nveid> i swear.. email is the biggest pain in the butt because it takes so many different pieces to make it work correctly
[03:07:11] <nveid> i think there is like 4 or 5 going just to make it do its thing.
[03:07:51] <jimpop> it's the same for any form of mass communication
[03:08:07] <rob0> it is simpler if you're not trying to change your IP address in such ways.
[03:08:39] <rob0> but sure, mail is seldom truly simple
[03:10:03] <nveid> well. I'm learning some ISPs out there require mail to be coming from RDNS of mail.domain.tld
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[03:17:53] <jimpop> yep. that's standard practice.
[03:18:10] <Patrickdk> they don't require that
[03:18:15] <nveid> aol does
[03:18:21] <Patrickdk> but they do require frcdns
[03:18:27] <Patrickdk> aol doesn't for me :)
[03:18:33] <Patrickdk> I NEVER use mail.*
[03:18:42] <Patrickdk> hell, 90% of the internet doesn't
[03:18:49] <nveid> Perhaps you already have sufficient aol reputation before they put that policy in place
[03:19:02] <Patrickdk> unlikely
[03:19:05] <nveid> think its a rather new rule aol put in, but they have a big system of determing IPs mailing reputations
[03:19:09] <Patrickdk> I just moved my servers last week :)
[03:19:13] <Patrickdk> new ip, new names
[03:19:13] <nveid> interesting
[03:19:15] <Patrickdk> still works :)
[03:19:24] <nveid> well, they don't like me without that. :P
[03:19:49] <nveid> what is frcdns?
[03:19:58] <Patrickdk> !frcdns
[03:19:58] <knoba> Patrickdk: Error: "frcdns" is not a valid command.
[03:20:02] <Patrickdk> !fcdns
[03:20:02] <knoba> Patrickdk: Error: "fcdns" is not a valid command.
[03:20:08] <Patrickdk> !frdns
[03:20:09] <nveid> nevermind just googled
[03:20:09] <knoba> Patrickdk: Error: "frdns" is not a valid command.
[03:20:11] <Patrickdk> damn it :)
[03:20:50] <rob0> What was the old name before mail.X?
[03:20:53] <nveid> hrm. now to figure out how to get this server out of google spam folder
[03:21:31] <nveid> check it out.. my cpanel server, that has exim on it, & abunch of other stuff.. Was on google's blacklist with an IP.. I just switched its outgoing IP.. and it showed right up in my regular folder..
[03:21:46] <jimpop> nveid: send a test email to sa-test at sendmail dot net, you will get a response back about the DKIM, etc. of your email
[03:21:49] <rob0> hmm
[03:21:49] <nveid> However this postfix server I'm migrating to another place.. just getting hte mail going, wiht postfix & everything.. Goes right ot hte spam folder
[03:22:00] <nveid> Its all good jimpop
[03:22:07] <nveid> I've used that several times
[03:22:42] <nveid> seems the big difference is in the headers I'm seeing on google
[03:24:16] <nveid> the exim+cpanel server adds abunch of X-headers.. http://pastebin.com/Veb0Lv6y
[03:25:25] <nveid> while these are the headers of the postfix one: http://pastebin.com/tn5h2Q35
[03:26:32] <Patrickdk> heh, your dns or helo is incorrect and inconsistant
[03:26:47] <jimpop> Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=softfail (google.com: domain of transitioning solutions at silvona dot com does not designate as permitted sender)
[03:27:02] <Patrickdk> all these issues
[03:27:03] <nveid> however.. the other one gave the exact samething
[03:27:07] <Patrickdk> and he said *ALL IS GOOD*
[03:27:09] <nveid> and it went through fine
[03:27:15] <Patrickdk> that doesn't matter
[03:27:22] <Patrickdk> all these things add up to a final score
[03:27:24] <nveid> hrm.. though i fixed that SPF record there
[03:27:27] <Patrickdk> if you fix the known issues
[03:27:31] <Patrickdk> heh
[03:27:36] <Patrickdk> why attempt to fix the unknown?
[03:28:09] <jimpop> SPF records are in DNS... and thus cached
[03:28:43] <nveid> yes.. thought that would of cleared up by now.. In anycase.. Even when the SPF record was straight, it was consistently going to the spambox
[03:29:00] <nveid> migrating the server to the new datacenter today
[03:29:24] <nveid> about 95% of my people never noticed my emails because always went to their spambox
[03:29:33] <nveid> so ther ehas to be something else in there that is causing that
[03:29:50] <Patrickdk> heh, fix it all :)
[03:30:11] <nveid> is that thats coming out of X-Mailer: PHPMailer causing any issue?
[03:30:14] <Patrickdk> fix your dns, add dkim, hope your ip reputation is ok
[03:30:33] <Patrickdk> I dunno if the utf-8 subject is hurting you, but it would on my email system
[03:32:12] <Patrickdk> why is dkim doubled up?
[03:32:18] <Patrickdk> man, so many issues
[03:33:23] <nveid> its showing the whole ptah
[03:33:45] <nveid> its sending out one server first, to the smtp server, and then going to google
[03:34:01] <nveid> i think thats whats going on...
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[04:19:04] <seekwill> What kind of stats do people keep about their email? Number of DKIM signed or SPF passed messages per domain? Spam message bodies to extract URLs of phishing attempts?
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[09:47:03] <bool> will reject_unknown_recipient_domain prevent email to be sent to the relayhostname server?
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[11:55:12] <nveid> i'm in the midst of migrating servers.. if I put relayhost = newserverip on the old server will that forward all mail to the new server?
[11:55:17] <nveid> until dns updates?
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[12:07:17] <nveid> k.. think i'm looking for transport
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[12:56:18] <nveid> arg my mail is broke again
[13:02:20] <bool> i am trying to connect from my local computer to a remote postfix-server, but I get connection timed out. i can however send email from eg my gmail account to the server. what could be wrong?
[13:02:39] <bool> i am using telnet btw
[13:10:43] <nveid> perhaps smpts is working?
[13:12:02] <bool> but shouldnt i get an errormessage? 554 or something?
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[13:14:59] <bool> and my error log does not show anything
[13:15:36] <nveid> not sure.. i'm having a similar issue right now
[13:15:51] <nveid> can't goto sleep till i fix it
[13:15:56] <bool> haha
[13:16:38] <bool> i was wondering if another server (one that acts before mine) rejects me. but i should still get an error message i believe
[13:16:56] <bool> it could be a relaying server
[13:17:56] <nveid> i'm not getting a ehlo handshake on mine
[13:18:07] <nveid> just hangs on port 25.. just started out of the blue
[13:20:35] <nveid> i hate mail
[13:20:50] <nveid> so vital yet so breakable
[13:21:16] <bool> i started yesterday. never touched postfix before. i have to learn everything to learn how an existing server works
[13:21:39] <bool> no experience with mail servers what so ever
[13:22:07] <nveid> oh.. welcome to hell.. I'm not a postfix master or anything, but you'll have fun with it
[13:22:23] <nveid> once its going its great..
[13:22:28] <nveid> but when its broke. its broke
[13:22:39] <bool> the server is not documented and i am trying to do it right now. i have probably managed to get my ip blocked by some spamfilter when trying to telnet
[13:34:01] <nveid> bah.. i hate this.. i'm going to sleep
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[15:58:38] <bool> so email comes to my server... then the right part of the email address is stripped off. then postfix checks if the username exists and if it does, it redirects the username and appends $myhostname before delivering it to relayhost?
[15:59:52] <rob0> ?
[16:00:09] <rob0> !goal
[16:00:10] <knoba> rob0: "goal" : describe your goal, not what you think the solution is
[16:00:35] <bool> i'm just trying to understand how postfix prosesses incoming mail
[16:00:40] <rob0> !overview
[16:00:41] <knoba> rob0: "overview" : Postfix Architecture Overview : http://www.postfix.org/OVERVIEW.html
[16:00:45] <bool> and how and when it redirects it
[16:01:30] <bool> what happens if postfix does not find a match for the username on the server? will it be passed on to the next server specified in relayhost or will it just be rejected?
[16:02:34] <rob0> Possibilities are endless, but maybe you want to try to understand this:
[16:02:39] <rob0> !address_classes
[16:02:40] <knoba> rob0: "address_classes" : http://www.postfix.org/ADDRESS_CLASS_README.html describes how Postfix deals with different classes of addresses: local, relay, virtual alias, virtual mailbox, and Internet.
[16:03:15] <rob0> and indeed, you can misconfigure a mail host to be easily abused.
[16:04:46] <bool> there is so much to grasp. i started yesterday
[16:06:14] <bool> and both my server is set up with spamassassin and the relayhost is set up with spamassasin.. the mail will be filtered two times (or more if the relayhost also uses relayhost)?
[16:09:01] <rob0> You should try to take it in small pieces. Start small, build on it. Add content filtering later. Is this for a new domain or an existing one?
[16:09:44] <rob0> the relayhost is the ISP?
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[16:10:51] <bool> it is an existing server that i try to figure out how works
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[16:11:33] <bool> i dont even know what the relayhost is. i just know it is already there
[16:12:13] <rob0> why do you want to host your mail?
[16:15:08] <bool> the server hosts a mailserver to manage emails submitted to it. it is for a student community and the responsibility for the server has passed on to me, but nothing is documented. i am trying to document how it works right now, but then i first need to understand how all the processes work including postfix (which i have never dealt with before)
[16:21:12] <sahil> bool: postfix.org has great documentation; read it.
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[16:22:02] <Stereo> hello everyone
[16:22:36] <Stereo> I'm having what looks like a dns issue, but I'm not really sure
[16:22:41] <bool> sahil, i am trying, but as i read, i have to jump back and forth and only gets more questions :p
[16:22:56] <sahil> bool: that's not uncommon. patience.
[16:23:24] <Stereo> so I have this server, ucalegon.stereo.lu
[16:23:25] <sahil> Stereo: pastie.org some logs that lead you to that hypothesis.
[16:24:01] <Stereo> mails to www-data at ucalegon dot stereo.lu arrive fine
[16:24:17] <Stereo> oh, if only I had enough logs to justify a pastie! :)
[16:24:41] <Stereo> the only relevant line I get is this one: Feb 26 16:10:03 Ucalegon postfix/smtp[24868]: 8D41528009E: to=<www-data@Ucalegon>, relay=none, delay=0.11, delays=0.07/0.04/0/0, dsn=5.4.6, status=bounced (mail for Ucalegon loops back to myself)
[16:25:23] <Stereo> so I think, well, I should have 'search stereo.lu' in my /etc/resolv.conf so it knows that ucalegon and ucalegon.stereo.lu are the same thing
[16:25:32] <Stereo> but it's already there, and doesn't seem to make a difference
[16:25:44] <sahil> Stereo: can you pastie.org the output of 'postconf -n'?
[16:25:50] <Stereo> sure
[16:26:15] <Stereo> http://pastie.textmate.org/private/dah4rwmzx8tcencc2ubnia
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[16:27:01] <sahil> Stereo: append_dot_mydomain = no <--- what is the rationale for specifying that?
[16:27:01] <Stereo> tell me if you'd like me to run database queries
[16:27:18] <Stereo> that's a good question :)
[16:27:30] <Stereo> lemme check my logs
[16:28:02] <Stereo> ok, my comments say: appending .domain is the MUA's job.
[16:28:26] <sahil> Stereo: ok, then get yoru MUA to send mail with the .domain; right now it's sending to www-data@Ucalegon.
[16:28:31] <sahil> s/yoru/your/
[16:28:59] <Stereo> heh. I don't know who's sending the stuff :)
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[16:29:29] <sahil> Stereo: ok, then append. and also i think you should read http://www.postfix.org/ADDRESS_CLASS_README.html#classes.
[16:29:33] <Stereo> I guess I could try enabling it, and see what breaks
[16:30:32] <sahil> good luck.
[16:30:47] <bool> i also specified append_dot_mydomain = no because i don't see any reason why anyone want to send email without a fully qualified domainname
[16:32:06] <Stereo> sahil: ah, so postfix doesn't look at the dns search domain when deciding whether to accept a thing?
[16:32:25] <Stereo> bool: you're smarter than whatever is sending this then :)
[16:32:37] <Stereo> I really wonder what it could be
[16:33:12] <sahil> bool: it's not _people_ but certain _software_ that may send without appending. i'm not advocating any particular configuration, but explaining why certain settings may impact delivery to your server.
[16:33:34] <sahil> Stereo: unless a domain is in an address class, postfix will not accept the mail.
[16:34:00] <Stereo> it seems to send that email every 10 minutes or so, so we'll find out at :40
[16:34:21] <sahil> Stereo: so dns keeps sending mail back to your postfix, and your postfix gets confused because you haven't configured it to accept mail for that domain. hence the loop.
[16:34:52] <Stereo> sahil: so another solution would be to add ucalegon as an alias domain for ucalegon.stereo.lu
[16:35:12] <sahil> Stereo: hang on.
[16:35:36] * Stereo hangs on
[16:35:57] <bool> sahil, do you have any example of software that sends without appending?
[16:36:32] <sahil> bool: some people's cron may do that. certain www programs (as clearly evidenced by what's happening to stereo).
[16:36:36] <Stereo> bool: apparently, one piece of software that does that lives at my place
[16:36:41] <Stereo> heh
[16:37:04] <sahil> Stereo: don't misdiagnose; postfix is the messenger, not the one actually generating messages to www-data@Ucalegon.
[16:37:27] <Stereo> oh yes, I'm not blaming postfix at all
[16:37:36] <bool> i'll probably just leave it at the default value of yes then
[16:37:38] <Stereo> aha! It looks like it's awstats
[16:37:46] <sahil> Stereo: fix awstats, then!
[16:38:14] <Stereo> at least that's what it looks like from the old stuff in /var/mail
[16:39:14] <Stereo> it's actually the cron job
[16:39:46] <Stereo> sahil: Brandeis? :)
[16:43:11] <Stereo> ok, I think I've narrowed it down to an /etc/hostname that just had a name and not the fqdn
[16:43:27] <bool> and mail that is sent from a php-site (on the server) is considered a local user, right?
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[16:44:45] <rob0> What do you mean, "considered a local user"? Obviously only a system user can invoke a command such as sendmail(1), but that might have nothing to do with the sender address used.
[16:47:28] <bool> i thought that when the php mail function connected to the postfix server by localhost, it was considered a local user that is treated by the local daemon.
[16:48:14] <rob0> um, does it "connect"? Probably not.
[16:49:05] <Stereo> it still speaks in smtp with postfix, just like any user. I'm not sure what you mean by local user.
[16:49:07] <bool> i thought it did something like telnet localhost 25 or something
[16:49:12] <rob0> Stereo, no.
[16:49:23] <rob0> !sendmail
[16:49:23] <knoba> rob0: "sendmail" : a pretty cryptic MTA that was famous in the ancient days of UNIX and still runs on a lot of mail servers. Don't confuse it with the "sendmail" command that is offered by Postfix to send emails (for compatibility reasons).
[16:49:32] <Stereo> ah, unless it calls sendmail, yes
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[16:50:31] <bool> thanks for that clearifycation about sendmail
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[17:12:42] <Stereo> hmm, for some reason cron keeps sending mails without the full name, no matter how I configure the hostname
[17:12:55] <Stereo> but I guess this really isn't a postfix question anymore :)
[17:13:14] <Stereo> thank you sahil and bool !
[17:13:36] <bool> i don't know if i was at any help :p but np :p
[17:14:16] <Stereo> you said you had append_dot_mydomain = no :)
[17:14:35] <bool> yeah, but i figured it probably should be at yes :p
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[17:22:20] <rob0> append_dot_mydomain can be either, as long as you understand what it means. I prefer "no" so I can use "address@localhost" addresses locally.
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[17:24:45] <Stereo> ah, good point, I hadn't thought of localhost
[17:24:59] <Stereo> on the other hand, I never really use it
[17:25:21] <rob0> of course I don't allow non-fqdn recipient addresses out
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[17:53:41] <bool> I have configured an alias inside /etc/aliases for postmaster that points to some at email dot address. If I understand this correctly a mail sent to postmaster@mydomain will first be received by the smtp daemon, it will then be processed by cleanup and placed in the qmgr daemon which sends it to the local daemon. The local-daemon will translate postmaster to some at email dot address and then reroute it to the the beginning of the chain?
[17:56:52] <rob0> first, you are confusing mydomain and mydestination.
[17:56:58] <rob0> !mydomain
[17:56:59] <knoba> rob0: "mydomain" : a configuration parameter in the main.cf: The internet domain name of this mail system. The default is to use $myhostname minus the first component. $mydomain is used as a default value for many other configuration parameters.
[17:57:06] <rob0> !mydestination
[17:57:07] <knoba> rob0: "mydestination" : a configuration parameter in the main.cf: The list of domains that Postfix delivers via the $local_transport mail delivery transport. By default, mail is given to the Postfix local(8) delivery agent that looks up all recipients in /etc/passwd and /etc/aliases, or their equivalents. See http://www.postfix.org/postconf.5.html#mydestination for more information.
[17:57:58] <bool> i was just using mydomain in this example. could be example.com for example :p
[17:58:07] <bool> that was many examples in one sentence
[17:58:23] <bool> i was not referring to the actual parameter
[17:58:24] <rob0> well, mydomain is an actual postconf(5) setting
[17:58:47] <bool> lets say i send it to email at example dot com then
[17:59:15] <rob0> then we have no idea if example.com is listed in any of your domain class lists.
[17:59:22] <rob0> so no.
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[18:01:45] <bool> :( i thought i had it
[18:02:53] <bool> So the message will not be passed through cleanup again and placed in the qmqr daemon which this time sends it to smtp (which in my case is a relayhost). the relayhost then has to deal with it being a valid address or not
[18:03:22] <rob0> If you change s/mydomain/mydestination/ you are close. If you go picking example domain names out of thin air, they would have to be looked up, and the answer varies accordingly. !address_classes ^^
[18:04:40] <bool> so lets say i send it to an existing address, then the relayhost has to deal with it. but if the address is non-existent, it will not be sent to the relayhost but rejected instead
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[18:08:37] <bool> another thing i'm not getting is the mydestination parameter. if the address has been classified as a local shell user, why should a domain be appended to the user?
[18:09:07] <rob0> every email address is a localpart@domain
[18:09:50] <bool> so my address would be bool@localhost ?
[18:09:52] <rob0> mydestination has nothing to do with appending @domain
[18:10:48] <rob0> My magic crystal ball does not know what your address is.
[18:11:02] <rob0> !append_at_myorigin
[18:11:03] <knoba> rob0: "append_at_myorigin" : Append the string"@$myorigin" to mail addresses without domain information. WARNING: do not change this without understanding what it means, see http://www.postfix.org/postconf.5.html#append_at_myorigin
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[18:44:12] <bool> what happens when a mail is sent to username and the username exists on the local system, but also exists as an alias that redirects to multiple addresses?
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[18:55:14] <rob0> IF the alias is used at all (we don't know because you are avoiding the use of specific terms), the alias takes precedence. See Postfix manual - local(8) "DELIVERY METHOD CONTROLS".
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[18:59:17] <viezerd> Is this 'true', from the spamhaus site: 'Indeed because SBL false positives are extremely rare'
[19:02:18] <bool> rob0, thanks for all the help, you have been great! :)
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[19:04:22] <rob0> yw
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[19:07:24] <rob0> viezerd, I have used Zen since it began and sbl-xbl for years before that, and it is safe and effective for me. As with any DNSBL, know their policies before you commit your mail to them.
[19:08:25] <rob0> In all that time I have seen occasional instances of legit mail being caught by XBL, but that always means that site has a problem they need to fix.
[19:08:46] <rob0> s/caught/blocked/
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[19:10:13] <viezerd> good to hear
[19:10:13] <rob0> There is also safety in numbers. With Zen you're using the industry standard, and if it blocks some site for you, that site is having delivery problems all over, not just to you. Let them fix their problem.
[19:10:50] <rob0> another good one, not as old:
[19:10:53] <rob0> !brbl
[19:10:54] <knoba> rob0: "brbl" : Barracuda Reputation Block List (BRBL) is a service of Barracuda, compiled from the input of Barracuda devices. Service is free but requires registration. See http://barracudacentral.org/rbl
[19:12:52] <viezerd> thanks for the info
[19:13:08] <rob0> yw
[19:13:40] <viezerd> I've been using spamd for a while which is very effective, just investigating if I can replace it with postscreens 'before greeting'
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[19:14:00] <viezerd> just to avoid the delay from greylisting
[19:14:25] <rob0> The pre-220 "deep protocol" tests are very much like greylisting in effect.
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[19:15:06] <rob0> just without the arbitrary wait period, a client can return immediately and be accepted.
[19:16:26] <viezerd> hmm yes, but some take an hour to come back :/
[19:17:47] <nveid> interesting last night my other mail server was down.. now its working.. but of course NAT forwarding isn't
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[20:17:52] <_ruben> guess cpm didn't get accepted... ;-)
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[20:19:36] * thumbs stabs Corey
[20:20:19] <Corey> thumbs: You and one other guy did the same thing in differnt channels.
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[20:21:28] <thumbs> Corey: in different spots, I hope.
[20:21:34] <Corey> Indeed.
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[20:29:19] <bool> Hmm.. so what happens if i send an email to user at myhost dot mydomain and user has an alias that points to user at myhost dot mydomain? an infinite loop?
[20:29:56] <seekwill> Is myhost.mydomain in your destination?
[20:30:14] <bool> lets say yes
[20:32:40] <bool> atleast $myhostname is and thats what i ment
[20:32:55] <bool> user@$myhostname
[20:34:18] <seekwill> I think that'll work.
[20:34:51] <bool> so it will be an infinite loop?
[20:35:01] <seekwill> Have you tried it?
[20:35:15] <seekwill> Why do you think it'll be an infinite loop? (we call those "mail loops")
[20:35:29] <bool> it didnt, but i cant find any error
[20:35:48] <bool> mail.info did not mention anything
[20:36:04] <seekwill> What is the problem?
[20:36:11] <seekwill> You should see in mail.info everything it does
[20:36:26] <seekwill> /topic tells you some good info to provide as wlel
[20:37:00] <bool> i just wanted to know what happened if an alias points back to the same mail-address
[20:37:09] <Corey> seekwill!
[20:37:26] <seekwill> Corey: Sorry! I don't know what I'm talking about!
[20:37:48] <bool> hmm
[20:37:57] <bool> now nothing is reported in mail.info
[20:39:04] <seekwill> You should at least see a connection attempt...
[20:40:33] <bool> no, its empty. i tried to clear it by removing the mail.info file and then touch it again. i also set the same permissions as mail.err has, but now it is just blank
[20:41:12] <seekwill> If it's blank, you're doing something wrong
[20:41:20] <seekwill> Even a telnet connection should show something
[20:41:29] <bool> yes, it must have happened when i removed the info file
[20:41:34] <bool> it worked before that
[20:46:00] <bool> the mail is delivered, but it doesnt show anything in the log. i must have set the wrong permissions or something
[20:47:45] <bool> looks right though
[20:47:57] <bool> rw r --- root adm
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[20:50:06] <seekwill> Can you pastebin the unmodified headers of the delivered mail?
[20:50:20] <seekwill> And I think you messed up your logging somehow.
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[20:52:53] <bool> i am sending from my hotmail account to the server which then has an alias to my gmail account
[20:53:09] <bool> the mail gets through, but the log is empty
[20:53:31] <bool> i did the exact same thing before clearing my log... then it was logging
[20:53:43] <bool> same to from
[20:54:50] <seekwill> I can't help you if you don't provide me info... so
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[20:56:30] <bool> seekwill, http://pastebin.com/VfX3jB1V
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[21:02:20] <seekwill> heh, SPF fail :)
[21:02:29] <seekwill> And you didn't see any log info?
[21:02:33] <seekwill> How about restarting Postfix?
[21:04:08] <bool> restarting didnt fix the logging
[21:04:20] <seekwill> How did you restart it?
[21:04:43] <bool> invoke-rc.d postfix restart
[21:04:56] <seekwill> !nologs
[21:04:57] <knoba> seekwill: "nologs" : Nothing in your mail logs commonly means one of two things: either your syslogd is broken (try restarting it), or the connections are not coming to your server. Check your firewall/networking and the DNS for the domain in question. also see !logs.
[21:05:06] <seekwill> hah
[21:06:23] <bool> hmm.. syslogd is not in the init.d directory
[21:06:28] <bool> i havent deleted it
[21:06:44] <seekwill> Ubuntu?
[21:06:47] <bool> so what was logging
[21:06:50] <bool> no debian
[21:06:55] <bool> same thing i guess
[21:06:56] <seekwill> I don't know debian at all
[21:07:13] <seekwill> I barely know Ubuntu!
[21:07:59] <seekwill> rsyslog ?
[21:09:24] <bool> YEAH!
[21:09:27] <bool> thanks!
[21:09:41] <seekwill> Did it fix it?
[21:09:45] <bool> yep
[21:09:48] <seekwill> :)
[21:09:52] <thumbs> seekwill barely knows anything!
[21:09:56] <seekwill> I know!
[21:09:59] <seekwill> And look what I can do!
[21:10:07] <thumbs> run servers and stuff.
[21:10:13] <seekwill> No, troll on #postfix!
[21:10:30] <thumbs> seekwill: oh, that's better
[21:12:55] <bool> haha
[21:12:59] <bool> thumbs up
[21:19:22] <bool> ahh... if i send an mail to user@hostname that points to user@hostname it will first try to deliver locally, then it says unknown user and bounces it... before it passes it on to the relayhost (which probably rejects it because dns lookup fails)
[21:21:27] <bool> im trying to learn how the mail is passed on by the server
[21:23:25] <bool> ive also learned that removing a log by hand makes rsyslogd go crazy
[21:26:34] <bool> thanks for the help
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[22:01:58] <jMCg> !mua
[22:01:59] <knoba> jMCg: "mua" : Mail User Agent: software used for mail message retrieval, commonly known as an email client, such as mutt, Evolution and Thunderbird
[22:02:22] <jMCg> ugh.
[22:05:19] <jMCg> I'm looking for something simple command line based, which I can use to connect to a remote server, and send an email (to an address which is not served on that remote server)
[22:05:27] <jMCg> So, it'd have to do authentication..
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[22:07:13] <jMCg> Also, hello o/~
[22:07:31] <seekwill> telnet?
[22:08:47] <thumbs> seekwill, meet jMCg. jMCg, meet seekwill.
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[22:08:57] <seekwill> ?
[22:09:18] <jMCg> Unfortunately, my "office" is closing, so I'll postpone arguing.
[22:10:22] <seekwill> Did I say something?
[22:10:39] <seekwill> thumbs: Second person I offended this morning!
[22:10:54] <thumbs> seekwill: you can't offend jMCg
[22:11:09] <thumbs> seekwill: if anything, he'll find that you're silly, but he doesn't mind.
[22:11:30] <seekwill> woohoo
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[22:16:04] <rob0> CLI or console? mutt(1) is both, heirloom mailx is CLI. Either one can do all of that, including TLS which you did not mention.
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[22:44:05] <jMCg> I'd prefer something that I can use in a pipe.
[22:44:40] * jMCg back home, after being thrown out from Starbucks.
[22:45:33] <rob0> both of them are that
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[23:12:19] <jMCg> I keep wondering where in mailx(1) it says: mailx will ignore your .mailrc when it feels like it.
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[23:17:57] <rob0> there IS more than one implementation of mailx. BSD mailx doesn't use any rc file, very basic and limited. Heirloom mailx is much more capable.
[23:19:49] <jMCg> Yeah, and -v is much more helpful when trying to debug it. More helpful than strace ;)
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   February 26, 2012  
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