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   February 11, 2012  
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[00:11:11] <lunaphyte> yeah, that's frustrating
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[00:25:29] <Gent> Does anyone know a better Domain Key solution than DKIM proxy or dk-filter on Linux?
[00:25:40] <Gent> Ideally something that would work with multiple keys and domains
[00:25:56] <Gent> for virtual e-mails
[00:26:16] <Gent> bonus points if it has a postgresql backend to query the domains and keys
[00:28:10] <lunaphyte> i like opendkim
[00:28:22] <lunaphyte> not sure why some backend would matter though.
[00:28:46] <lunaphyte> i use it with ldap, without the need for any sort of formal backend. i'm sure the same could be done for pgsql
[00:28:47] <Gent> opendkim says it's a library
[00:29:18] <Gent> I see, has a filter application too
[00:30:07] <Gent> lunaphyte: doesn't it have to be LDAP aware?
[00:30:35] <Gent> most dkim setups I've seen have configs, and you have to specify the private key and the valid domains in that config
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[00:30:57] <lunaphyte> it just reads files.
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[00:31:10] <lunaphyte> there's a million and one ways to put data into files.
[00:31:28] <Gent> lunaphyte: yes, well that was kinda the point of the backend... not having to have a separate script to manage dumping these files
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[00:31:44] <lunaphyte> eh, it's too trivial to be that complex.
[00:31:48] <Gent> then you run into worry about syncrhonization across multiple servers... and if the data in the database changes, when to dymp
[00:32:10] <Gent> lunaphyte: it's trivial if you're talking about a single server, yes
[00:32:32] <lunaphyte> i was talking in general. regardless of scale.
[00:32:49] <Gent> I fail to see how that is trivial
[00:33:35] <lunaphyte> trivial - meaning something that really wouldn't be a big deal to sort out.
[00:33:45] <Gent> I know what trivial means
[00:38:08] <lunaphyte> i guess i just consider things like that routine sysadmin exercises.
[00:39:11] <Gent> lunaphyte: Yes, if you set it up in a very limited way
[00:39:19] <Gent> No, if you're actually looking to scale long term
[00:39:55] <lunaphyte> i was talking in general. regardless of scale.
[00:40:05] <Gent> Well then you're simply wrong...
[00:40:18] <lunaphyte> oh, ok.
[00:41:15] <Gent> Writing a cron job or equivalent to dump data from a database into config files, restarting services, works great if all you're ever talking about is 4 servers
[00:41:37] <Gent> assuming as well it's on a fast enough basis
[00:41:45] <lunaphyte> only four?
[00:42:10] <Gent> lunaphyte: the point is, the more you add, the more you have to configure the cron job on, the more you have to copy the script too... if the script changes, the more you have to update the script on...
[00:42:15] <Gent> it becomes unmanageable long term
[00:42:41] <Gent> That's precisely why postfix has multiple backends for these sorts of things to begin with
[00:42:47] <lunaphyte> it sure would be insane to think it would be practical do all of that manually.
[00:43:01] <Gent> if you had to update relay domain files on 10 mail servers via cron jobs, rather than just using a mysql or postgres or ldap backend, you'd shoot yourself
[00:43:25] <lunaphyte> yeah. cron jobs would be stupid. i agree.
[00:43:31] <jimpop> until the ldap or mysql backend failed.
[00:43:50] <jimpop> redundancy and distribution come with costs
[00:43:52] <Gent> jimpop: that's pointless, if you have 10 redundant mail server, you would obviously have redudancy for the DB as well
[00:43:54] <lunaphyte> of course, i can't figure out where the idea of cron jobs came from.
[00:44:10] <Gent> lunaphyte: you're talking about updating config files
[00:44:34] <lunaphyte> indeed
[00:45:05] <Gent> Ok, well what do you propose are the "million and one ways" to put data into files as you put it
[00:45:13] <jimpop> puppet
[00:45:42] <lunaphyte> whatever one you like.
[00:46:07] <jimpop> http://puppetlabs.com/
[00:46:15] <Gent> lunaphyte: well give me some options, jimpop has given me one
[00:47:12] <jimpop> lol
[00:47:16] <Gent> but puppet and cron is hardly millions
[00:47:17] <jimpop> lunaphyte: make me a sandwich
[00:47:21] <lunaphyte> !sudo
[00:47:21] <knoba> lunaphyte: Error: "sudo" is not a valid command.
[00:47:28] <lunaphyte> !sandwich
[00:47:28] <knoba> lunaphyte: "sandwich" : http://www.xkcd.com/c149.html
[00:47:33] <jimpop> ty
[00:47:38] <lunaphyte> :)
[00:48:30] <lunaphyte> i suppose i got turned off when absence of consideration was presented as me being "simply wrong".
[00:48:45] <jimpop> ;-)
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[00:48:49] <lunaphyte> i like separate scripts. they're nice and modular.
[00:48:54] <jimpop> this is #postfix after all
[00:49:24] <Gent> lunaphyte: if you don't see the benefit of modular backends for such configurations, then yes, you are simply wrong
[00:49:35] <Gent> again, postfix is a perfect example
[00:49:48] <jimpop> or perhaps your experiences are different than his
[00:50:02] * lunaphyte doesn't recall saying there was no benefit to modular backends.
[00:50:43] <Gent> ok well "without the formal need for any backend" -- which was moot anyway
[00:50:50] <Gent> opendkim supports LDAP as a formal backend
[00:51:14] <lunaphyte> actually, that's sort of funny. at very large scales, you'll often find data used by postfix that is stored in a database or directory, but dumped to hash files which are read by postfix.
[00:51:47] <lunaphyte> the reason being that it doesn't scale well.
[00:52:29] <Gent> I fail to see how it would not scale well, unless you didn't scale your databases relative to your mailservers
[00:53:22] <Gent> Our databases and directories are scaled probably 2 - 3 times that of mailservers and web servers
[00:53:30] <Gent> with proper load balancing etc...
[00:53:55] <lunaphyte> lots of money to spend if you don't need to.
[00:54:29] <Gent> that money is already spent, long before I got here, and the infrastructure makes a fair amount of sense, I'm simply trying to make the best use of it
[00:54:31] <jimpop> lots of headache to maintain, lots of potential problems, etc ;_)
[00:54:44] <jimpop> death by redundancy
[00:54:50] <jimpop> it's a book I plan to write
[00:55:22] <Gent> Well currently I'm looking at more maintenance due to lack of a DKIM solutions without multiple backends supported than I currently have to worry about on the database and directory stuff
[00:55:43] <Gent> so I can't say I'm too concerned about the current mode of production -- certainly the future if there's really no DKIM solutions that supports it
[00:55:54] <jimpop> why don't you write a dkim backend interface for a DB?
[00:56:18] <Gent> if I had the time I would...
[00:56:22] <jimpop> lol
[00:56:30] <jimpop> death by redundancy
[00:56:32] <jimpop> it's a book I plan to write
[00:56:46] <Gent> It would at least fit in well with the rest of postfix
[00:57:05] <Gent> and dovecot for that matter (although that's really PAMs doing)
[00:58:12] <lunaphyte> well, what's out there is what's out there. it can definitely be made to work, and quite painlessly for those experienced. is there room for modifications? of course
[00:58:24] <lunaphyte> that's really about all it boils down to.
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[01:01:49] <lunaphyte> you made a good point about scaling one mechanism in parity with another. i would think you would definitely want to scale configuration management methods in accordance with the volume of the environment.
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[01:02:53] <Gent> lunaphyte: that's already taken care of to a large degree
[01:03:31] <Gent> but all current pieces of software have configurations where the files are relatively static, and can point to more dynamic data via various backends
[01:04:01] <Gent> this is true for nss, PAM, Postfix, Apache and NGINX, etc...
[01:04:58] <Gent> DKIM solutions are the first which seem to not accept this
[01:05:34] <Gent> with the excpetion of OpenDKIM and LDAP -- as you pointed out... but LDAP does not contain most of the information we would need for DKIM
[01:08:14] <lunaphyte> time to get creative :)
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[01:08:51] <Gent> lunaphyte: If I had time to, then I would
[01:09:02] <lunaphyte> openldap has a pretty slick sql backend
[01:09:15] <lunaphyte> people have done some pretty creative things with it.
[01:10:20] <Gent> people with more time than I
[01:10:46] <lunaphyte> we wouldn't be able to know that.
[01:11:19] <Gent> sure you would
[01:12:05] <Gent> all you have to do is find one, and ask them how many hours they work a week
[01:12:07] <Gent> then ask me
[01:12:49] <lunaphyte> we'd have to find all of the people who have set up slapd-sql, which we can't do.
[01:13:09] <lunaphyte> anyway, how much time people have isn't really too topical here.
[01:13:58] <Gent> slapd-sql is not the question, slapd-sql given the legacy solutions in place is, and I think you'd be hard pressed to find someone in equivalently large company with equivalen legacy solutions
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[01:18:03] <lunaphyte> slapd-sql was a suggestion, not a question.
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[01:35:49] <\malex\> i've been going through the postfix docs, but i can't seem to find a way to mirror all mail destined to a domain to another server. i would like to send a copy of all mail for a domain to another server using the original envelope information, since always_bcc wouldn't work for me. any ideas?
[01:40:15] <rob0> It comes up on the mailing list occasionally, and the usual answer there is to check the list archives (in Google) for recipient_bcc_maps in pcre examples.
[01:41:27] <danblack> \malex\: use a bcc_map such that the original envelope address can be derived. x at example dot com -> x at archive dot example.com
[01:42:56] <\malex\> danblack: but that would still change the envelope recipient. no way to do it while preserving it?
[01:43:22] <rob0> already answered.
[01:44:21] <\malex\> rob0: ah yes, those search terms pointed me to what i needed, thanks
[01:44:25] <\malex\> and thanks danblack
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[02:26:42] <Blaster> is there a page which tells the proper format of a passwd passdb/userdb file ?
[02:28:19] <rob0> passwd(5)
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[03:02:06] <Blaster> hey im having trouble deciding what my mail_location structure is
[03:02:28] <Blaster> i have my mails stored in folders like /home/username/Maildir/username/new (cur and tmp folders as well)
[03:02:56] <Blaster> actually, it's like /home/domain/Maildir/username/<new,cur,tmp>
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[03:29:42] <Blaster> is there a way to combine the management of the postfix vmailbox file and the dovecot userdb/passdb file?
[03:49:19] <rob0> unfortunately not. I suggested something like that, but got no response.
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[03:50:12] <rob0> Looks like you need to read the dovecot wiki page about virtual users. They should have a $HOME, not just a maildir.
[03:52:37] <rob0> so my userdb returns vmail/domain/user as home, with mail_location (and virtual(8) delivering to) ~/maildir/ .
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[05:03:57] <tortuguito> hello
[05:05:19] <tortuguito> ola
[05:05:27] *** SweetG has joined #postfix
[05:05:30] <tortuguito> SweetG
[05:05:31] <tortuguito> hi
[05:05:46] <SweetG> tortuguito hey! o:P²
[05:06:10] <tortuguito> SweetG help for me
[05:06:59] <thumbs> with?
[05:07:51] <SweetG> how to verify if the email were sent? thumbs
[05:08:13] <SweetG> on postfix server, hehe.
[05:08:57] <thumbs> SweetG: check the logs.
[05:09:06] <SweetG> how?
[05:09:12] <thumbs> SweetG: man tail?
[05:10:03] <SweetG> hummm
[05:11:59] <thumbs> !log
[05:12:00] <knoba> thumbs: Error: You don't have the owner capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
[05:12:02] <thumbs> !logs
[05:12:02] <knoba> thumbs: "logs" : postfix logs to the mail facility of syslog. Something like grep -i `postconf -h syslog_facility` /path/to/syslog_config_file should tell you where logs are going. also see !no_logs and !have2mung
[05:13:07] <tortuguito> grep: /path/to/syslog_config_file: No such file or directory
[05:13:07] <tortuguito> [root@localhost ~]#
[05:13:22] <thumbs> ....
[05:13:50] <jimpop> O_o
[05:14:17] <tortuguito> vao tomar no anus
[05:14:25] <SweetG> huahauaa, xiu
[05:14:34] <thumbs> SweetG: English?
[05:15:03] <SweetG> thumbs, nops
[05:15:15] <tortuguito> hello I want a basic command to see WHAT was not sent by postfix.
[05:15:25] <thumbs> tortuguito: parse your logs.
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[05:15:49] <thumbs> tortuguito: of course, it depends on what you means by "not sent"
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[05:16:09] <SweetG> grrr
[05:16:26] <tortuguito> was using: postqueue -p
[05:17:15] <tortuguito> He's more detailed message per message, just wanted to know the total of messages not sent in a single line.
[05:17:55] <tortuguito> someone more willing to help me?
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[05:25:17] <tortuguito> tharkun xerolaine
[05:25:23] <tortuguito> SweetG
[05:25:26] <tortuguito> esses gringos
[05:25:32] <tortuguito> sao tudo cracudos
[05:25:37] <tortuguito> FILHOS DAS PUTAS
[05:25:40] <SweetG> hehehe
[05:25:43] <SweetG> queta
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[16:15:30] <fyolnish> evening, I'm setting up a mail server and it seems to be working fine except for that I can't get a postfix to accept remote connections
[16:15:33] <fyolnish> https://gist.github.com/9324f96f5269330efc4c <- my conf
[16:15:58] <fyolnish> I just get a connection refused when I try to telnet to port 25 (which according to nmap is open)
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[16:28:39] <fyolnish> never mind :)
[16:28:40] <fyolnish> seems to work
[16:29:58] <fyolnish> (or at least I'm able to send and receive email)
[16:30:08] <fyolnish> still can't telnet to port 25 though
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[17:21:03] <lunaphyte> fyolnish: pastebin your telnet session
[17:21:36] <fyolnish> it's fine, it was just that it uses 587 not 25
[17:21:53] <fyolnish> the telnet session didn't contain anything but the line saying connection refused
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[22:09:57] <digimer> Hi all, anyone able to help me with this problem? CentOS 6.2, trying to setup postfix with postgres; postmap: fatal: unsupported dictionary type: pgsql
[22:10:36] <digimer> 'yum list | grep postfix' doesn't shown postfix-pgsql (or postfix-mysql, for that matter)
[22:11:47] <digimer> or is this right and I need to rebuild my RPMs? http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/postfix-users/message/281980
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[22:16:26] <lunaphyte> digimer: postconf -m
[22:17:45] <rob0> according to several recent threads, there's no binary RPM available with pgsql
[22:24:09] <digimer> lunaphyte: ya, no mention of postgres
[22:24:21] <digimer> rob0: seems to be the case... I'm going to rebuild the RPM
[22:26:01] <danblack> digimer: have you looked in fedora epel?
[22:26:59] * lunaphyte wonders what the point of using some particular operating system is when you just have to go build everything yourself anyway
[22:27:38] <thumbs> lunaphyte: hey, i only rebuild 20 rpms when I use a centos box - that's not the entire system!
[22:27:47] <thumbs> </sarcasm>
[22:28:01] <lunaphyte> :)
[22:28:36] <lunaphyte> don't turn off the sarcasm. we like you better with it on
[22:28:58] <digimer> lunaphyte: postfix is just one of the many things I use this server for. :)
[22:29:04] <digimer> danblack: I have not
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[23:11:18] <digimer> recompiled and now I can use postgresql. :)
[23:11:23] <digimer> thanks folks
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[23:44:31] <cite> On the topic of RPMs: Has anyone ever taken the Debian patches (they split Postfix in postfix-ldap, postfix-mysql and so on) and incorporated them in an RPM?
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top

   February 11, 2012  
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