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   January 1, 2012  
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[00:32:22] <delsvr> hello, having some issues getting my postfix to authenticate. It's a virtual host setup that interfaces with sasl -> pam -> mysql, and when I auth login I notice in the mysql logs that it truncates off the @domain; i.e. my username in the database is "user at domain dot com", but the query being validated is just "user"; anyone know where/why this truncation is happening?
[00:34:25] <Zerberus> delsvr: maybe
[00:34:47] * jra bets: sasl
[00:35:41] <delsvr> any suggestions to get this working?
[00:35:43] <wdp> happy new year.
[00:36:14] <Zerberus> delsvr: provide details about your SASL setup
[00:39:01] * jra bets again: cyrus, saslauthd
[00:39:15] <Zerberus> jra: me too
[00:41:06] <delsvr> I don't know much about; using debian, yes I think it's cyrus saslauthd; all I did to get it going was set smtpd_sasl_auth_enable = yes in main.cf, and basically set MECHANISMS="pam" in /etc/default/saslauthd (debian)
[00:41:27] <Zerberus> delsvr: use parameter -r with saslauthd
[00:42:01] <delsvr> as in something like, OPTIONS="-r -c -m /var/spool/postfix/var/run/saslauthd"?
[00:43:01] <Zerberus> delsvr: yes
[00:43:06] <delsvr> :) authentication successful
[00:43:23] <delsvr> ah that's beautiful, thanks Zerberus
[00:44:03] <delsvr> " -r Combine the realm with the login before passing to authentication mechanism"
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[00:51:34] <delsvr> also wondering, could this break other sasl clients? Should I be setting postfix-specific parameters (especially "-m /var/spool/postfix/var/run/saslauthd") in /etc/default/saslauthd or is there some other smtp/postfix-specific location for these options?
[00:55:24] <lunaphyte> just use dovecot -> mysql. no need to overcomplicate things with cyrus, saslauthd, pam, etc, etc.
[00:56:34] <jimpop> someone should add that ^^ to the topic. it comes up at least 3 times a week ;-)
[00:59:09] <delsvr> I'll look into that too, but sasl seems like a logical place to consolidate authentication--if I could just understand it.
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[01:02:23] <rob0> what to add to topic?
[01:04:50] <jimpop> "just use dovecot -> mysql. no need to overcomplicate things with cyrus"
[01:05:09] <rob0> oh, it seems to be a Debian thing mostly
[01:05:36] <rob0> like the Debian maintainer[s] didn't know about Dovecot SASL
[01:05:45] <Zerberus> why do so many people think they "need" to use mysql in such setups?
[01:06:11] <rob0> heh, don't you know? They're going to be the next gmail!
[01:06:46] <Zerberus> rob0: then go no-sql *shrug*
[01:07:57] <rob0> I'm always shaking my head over the ones who don't even understand how email works, just getting started, by following some lame mysql-virtual howto.
[01:09:04] <Zerberus> rob0: I am convinced that the problem starts with the fact that most people seem to begin with a google search rather than reading the primary documentation
[01:10:11] <rob0> You know, *most* free software projects I know have pretty good documentation. I don't know how the idea that documentation is lacking got started.
[01:11:07] <rob0> Sure, there are a few things which got started by a coder who never took the time to document things, but in any serious project, that gets fixed soon enough.
[01:11:14] <jra> I clearly can't focus/concentrate as well as before, years ago. I blame Youtube and Reddit.
[01:11:34] <jimpop> i think it's because a lot of sites use SEO to push their results higher than project documentation
[01:11:44] <Zerberus> rob0: I guess the thinking is "well, others should have the same "problem" as me, so there should be some way through it by people in my very same situation" - and that's the quality of so many "good tutorials!"
[01:12:51] <rob0> I haven't mentioned this here yet, but now that it's 2012 I might as well. I am working on a Postfix-sqlite tutorial. I looked at a lot of the mysql ones, and ugh, they tend to suck.
[01:14:20] <rob0> Signum's is pretty good with some minor objections, and I saw another one which broke things down well. But for the most part they are poorly-understood SQL managing even less-understood Postfix.
[01:14:42] <Zerberus> rob0: I always felt that the workaround.org papers were the most informing ones so far
[01:15:57] <rob0> yes, my only objection is rather minor, being that it covers a bit too much ground, but it does explain things.
[01:16:44] <rob0> mine is not going to appeal to those who want a copy/paste 'here is a complete mail server with the kitchen sink'.
[01:20:57] <jra> The Ultimate Postfix-Dovecot-Postgres-SpamAssassin-ClamAV-Amavisd-Roundcube+20Plugins-DKIM-DNSSEC-but-no-PostfixAdmin Guide. Improved. Now with free Ubuntu sticker.
[01:21:46] <rob0> nono, these things are always mysql, never PostgreSQL. :)
[01:22:13] <jra> Pah. Consider it forked.
[01:22:46] <rob0> "mysql, the world's most popular RDBMS", they say on their web page.
[01:23:05] <rob0> like Windows, the world's most popular OS
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[01:26:52] <f3ew> hehe
[01:27:56] <rob0> happy f3ew year, friend! :)
[01:28:02] <f3ew> to you too
[01:28:06] <rob0> ty
[01:28:12] <f3ew> Are you going to make it to FOSDEM?
[01:28:22] <rob0> not likely, sigh
[01:28:36] <f3ew> :|
[01:28:44] <delsvr> rob0, where can we eventually find your postfix-sqlite tutorial?
[01:29:00] <rob0> it will be announced here and on the mailing list
[01:31:27] <jimpop> when?
[01:31:47] <jimpop> don't pre-announce an announcement and expect to get away without providing specifics
[01:31:50] <jimpop> :P
[01:32:06] <rob0> I expect to have it done early next year. ;)
[01:32:26] <f3ew> Given your timezone, that's not too far off
[01:32:32] <rob0> at this point, I think maybe 2-3 days
[01:32:54] <jimpop> nice
[01:33:13] <rob0> conceptually it's all in place, I just need to write it up and all the sample data too.
[01:33:36] <rob0> yup, I'm still stuck in 2011 for a few more hours
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[08:12:25] <Blaster> hey I just tried to run /etc/init.d/postfix start and it said Starting postfix: [failed]. How do I find out why it failed?
[08:13:49] <saiju> check /var/log/maillog
[08:18:16] <Blaster> Is this an error? Dec 31 23:22:13 success postfix/master[7805]: fatal: bind port 25: Address already in use
[08:19:27] <jimpop> i think that sudo rm -rf \ solves that
[08:19:44] <Blaster> jimpop: nah that's ok :P
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[08:20:50] <Blaster> i tried that command before and it took way too long to load
[08:21:25] * thumbs looks at jimpop
[08:27:03] <pj> jimpop: careful someone might actually do it.
[08:27:41] <jimpop> that's why I used the backslash.
[08:27:46] <pj> blaster: netstat -lnp | grep 25
[08:28:42] <Blaster> tcp 0 0* LISTEN 7186/sendmail: acce
[08:28:55] <pj> heh, thought so
[08:29:01] <pj> you have both sendmail and postfix installed.
[08:29:04] <Blaster> do I need to run system-switch-mail ?
[08:29:12] <pj> you need to get rid of sendmail
[08:29:32] <Blaster> is postfix better?
[08:29:38] <pj> I think so
[08:30:08] <pj> at any rate you can't have two different services listening on the same interface/port combination.
[08:30:22] <Blaster> ok
[08:31:17] <Blaster> Should I just chkconfig --del sendmail and then reboot?
[08:31:37] <pj> no, I assume you're running on a RH platform?
[08:31:42] <pj> yum remove sendmail
[08:32:38] <pj> you may also have to: service sendmail stop
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[08:32:49] <pj> then service postfix start
[08:33:04] <jimpop> (do that before you yum remove sendmail)
[08:33:09] <pj> yes
[08:33:45] <pj> you might also need to do: chkconfig postfix on
[08:33:54] <pj> but I think that's not necessary
[08:34:15] <pj> and you may have to do: yum install --reinstall postfix
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[08:35:15] <pj> that last one because removing sendmail may cause the sendmail and mailq binaries to be removed.
[08:35:52] <Blaster> Command line error: no such option: --reinstall
[08:35:58] <Blaster> CentOS 5.4
[08:36:10] <pj> hrmmmmm, I'll double check the option
[08:36:34] <pj> oh, it's just: yum reinstall postfix
[08:41:03] <pj> ok, bbl
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[09:51:52] <xxzz> y0 HNY
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[14:33:58] <Cain> Happy New Year!
[14:35:06] <danblack> happy 2 Janurary here.
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[19:53:04] <fabounio> salut
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[20:12:17] <ddd> !welcome
[20:12:17] <knoba> ddd: "welcome" : welcome to #postfix! if you're joining for the first time, or are new to irc, the first thing you'll want to do is read the channel topic (/topic). it includes crucial instructions on how to effectively ask for help here, and what data you should include with your questions. the degree of success you'll have is directly related to how effectively you're able to follow those guidelines.
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[20:16:27] <jimpop> anyone familiar with IronPort headers?
[20:16:35] <jimpop> X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
[20:17:03] <jimpop> ^^ does that imply detected spam, or just tested sucessfully?
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[20:29:31] <ddd> I'm setting up a Debian mail-server that lives in a LAN with an imaginary domain name "mail.abc.local". I have to use Postfix, Dovecot and enable IMAP access (w/ TLS). DNS & LDAP server will be provided at a later point in time, but I have to set everything up without access.
[20:30:37] <ddd> I've tried numerous attempts at doing it combining several online tutorials that fulfill some of my requirements, but I never get far
[20:31:23] <ddd> Can someone give me some pointers as to how to get this set up?
[20:33:00] <ddd> Right now I can send mail to myself @gmail.com but attempting to receive mail internally fails
[20:37:41] <rob0> first off, I would not recommend .local as top-level domain, because that is used in MDNS/zeroconf networking.
[20:38:02] <rob0> choose .lan or .site or even .ddd
[20:38:15] <rob0> !soho
[20:38:15] <knoba> rob0: "soho" : Small/home office hints and tips: http://www.postfix.org/SOHO_README.html
[20:38:50] <ddd> the people who set up the other servers already started using the .local
[20:39:28] <ddd> it won't be used in production, more of a proof of concept
[20:39:46] <rob0> so, when you see bizarre misbehaviors in it, you can blame .local
[20:39:55] <ddd> ok i will keep it in mind
[20:41:06] <ddd> right now i think the main culprit of it not working is my now knowing what i should do
[20:41:37] <ddd> *not knowing
[20:43:25] <ddd> oh wow
[20:43:34] <ddd> thats a good link, thanks
[20:48:41] <lunaphyte> yeah, do yourself a favor and implore these "others" to do away with .local before it really *is* too late
[20:48:59] <lunaphyte> using it is very foolish
[20:49:44] <rob0> yeah, I don't see how changing it to something safe, before the proof of concept is deployed, can hurt.
[20:52:25] <ddd> ok i will ask them to change it, what do i do to get started with the mailing side of this set-up?
[20:52:47] <ddd> .site should do fine
[20:53:22] <lunaphyte> that really depends on what your specific goals are, but all of the aspects of how the software work are naturally covered in the documentation that comes with it.
[20:54:11] <lunaphyte> we don't do documentation recaps here of course, so you'll want to use that as your primary reference, but we can help with making good choices for proper concepts, and trouble with specific technical issues once you get started.
[20:54:30] <rob0> any new install should start with
[20:54:33] <rob0> !basic
[20:54:33] <knoba> rob0: "basic" : http://www.postfix.org/BASIC_CONFIGURATION_README.html : a good starting place for Postfix beginners, many common questions are answered here.
[20:54:51] <lunaphyte> oh, this one is important too:
[20:54:53] <lunaphyte> !readme
[20:54:53] <knoba> lunaphyte: "readme" : (#1) Check /usr/share/docs/postfix/README, or (#2) Check /usr/share/doc/postfix/README*, or (#3) Check wherever the heck docs are stored on your preferred platform
[20:55:06] <ddd> ok i will immerse myself in the docs
[20:55:44] <ddd> in what order should i implement the various parts (postfix, dovecot, tls, ldap) ?
[20:55:56] <rob0> !database
[20:55:57] <knoba> rob0: "database" : http://www.postfix.org/DATABASE_README.html provides an overview of how Postfix lookup tables work, and the various types that are implemented.
[20:56:03] <ddd> i.e. what are some checkpoints i should be working towards?
[20:56:09] <rob0> understand the abstraction layer
[20:56:44] <rob0> implement what you plan to do in LDAP first in flat files
[20:57:15] <lunaphyte> i'd ask for something even before that.
[20:57:27] <lunaphyte> "I'm setting up a Debian mail-server"...
[20:57:39] <lunaphyte> "mail-server" is way way too anbiguous.
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[20:57:47] <rob0> fortunately each part can be done more or less independently of others. But if you have no experience with mail servers at all, you have a huge learning curve ahead.
[20:57:51] <lunaphyte> what do you *actually* intend to do?
[20:58:01] <lunaphyte> *ambiguous
[20:58:38] <ddd> i need to provide IMAP access to a webserver that hosts webmail and authenticate users using a LDAP server
[20:58:42] <rob0> snon6!qwe
[20:58:54] <lunaphyte> :O
[20:59:19] <lunaphyte> no way did you just start out the new year by doing that!
[20:59:31] <rob0> sorry, I like to stand on my head sometimes, and need to have something to read while doing so!
[20:59:46] <lunaphyte> :)
[21:00:00] <lunaphyte> ddd: "provide IMAP access to a webserver" doesn't really make sense...
[21:00:40] <ddd> Why?
[21:00:52] <ddd> or rather, what would make sense
[21:00:52] <lunaphyte> because web servers do http and https, not imap.
[21:00:59] <rob0> BTW a webmail client is just like any other MUA. It does not need to be hosted on the same machine as the SMTP/IMAP.
[21:01:19] <ddd> Yeah, I just provided a little context
[21:01:24] <lunaphyte> well, you're setting up some sort of mail system - but let's start with why? surely these folks have email already...
[21:01:52] <ddd> it's me and a couple of friends
[21:02:02] <lunaphyte> what's the impetus?
[21:02:35] <ddd> we're still in highschool, it's a project for the end of the semester
[21:03:03] <lunaphyte> oh, and actual part of your coursework?
[21:03:07] <lunaphyte> *an
[21:03:22] <ddd> it doesn't have to be very performant, just fulfill the requirements and work once
[21:03:26] <ddd> we decided upon it
[21:03:39] <ddd> because we wanted to build a full fledged system of servers
[21:03:40] <lunaphyte> i see - so the thing is inevitably ephemeral?
[21:04:01] <ddd> ephemeral it is
[21:04:37] <lunaphyte> ok, so this is for fun/learning then we can safely say?
[21:05:03] <ddd> yeah, but we had to decide on the specific specs beforehand
[21:05:21] <ddd> as a little "real life simulation" by our prof
[21:05:38] <lunaphyte> ok, well that all sounds fine
[21:05:58] <lunaphyte> so then you'll want to look at things from a number of perspectives:
[21:05:59] <rob0> impress the prof and make it real :)
[21:06:13] <lunaphyte> now that would be neat, yes.
[21:06:28] <ddd> i'm doing my best :)
[21:06:38] <rob0> get a cheap VPS somewhere (one month of your cell bill would cover a year or two of that, and also register a domain.)
[21:06:40] <lunaphyte> you'll want first, an mta: a mail server which receives email for which it is responsible for.
[21:07:11] <lunaphyte> second, you'll want to set up an mra: a mail server form which messages that have been delivered can be retrieved
[21:07:37] <lunaphyte> third, you'll want to set up a proper msa: a mail server to which end users/client can submit email for further delivery
[21:08:07] <lunaphyte> and fourth, a webmail client running on a web server somewhere which can be used to retrieve mail that's been delivered
[21:08:07] <rob0> I'm glad you said you are a kid in school. I would much rather help a kid with homework than help someone who has a paying job he's not capable of doing.
[21:08:24] <lunaphyte> mta = port 25 - smtp
[21:08:30] <lunaphyte> mra = port 143 - imap
[21:08:44] <lunaphyte> msa = port 587 - submission [or as i prefer, smsp]
[21:09:05] <waldi> smsp?
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[21:09:43] <ddd> Hmm, I'm wondering if we have to be able to send mail externally, after all what's the point if the domain is invalid outside our LAN
[21:09:56] <lunaphyte> the webmail interface will simply be an imap client. no different in philosophy than thunderbird. it will retrieve email from the mra using imap, and will submit mail to the msa using submission
[21:10:17] <lunaphyte> waldi: smsp = simple mail submission protocol ;)
[21:10:30] <lunaphyte> ddd: i don't follow
[21:10:34] <ddd> no it's just internal
[21:10:47] <waldi> lunaphyte: which rfc?
[21:10:50] <buki> some wierd (MS) software uses also 465 for smtp over ssl
[21:11:00] <lunaphyte> do you need to send email externally, or not?
[21:11:05] <ddd> no
[21:11:08] <ddd> just internally
[21:11:17] <lunaphyte> no current ms software needs to use smtps [465].
[21:11:41] <lunaphyte> ddd: but it will need to behave as though it was a "real" system, right?
[21:11:47] <rob0> waldi, lunaphyte is working on that RFC as we speak :)
[21:11:51] <lunaphyte> !tell waldi submission
[21:11:51] <knoba> waldi: "submission" : Port 587 is submission, for user submission of mail, NOT suitable for mail exchange. See the commented example in master.cf. also see !msa, and rfc 6409. Also read http://www.maawg.org/sites/maawg/files/news/MAAWG_Port25rec0511.pdf
[21:11:56] <buki> it doesn't "need" to, yet it tries anyway
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[21:12:05] <waldi> lunaphyte: smsp != submission
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[21:12:19] <lunaphyte> huh?
[21:12:34] <waldi> submission == smtp
[21:12:46] <lunaphyte> buki: there is lots of software with poorly configured defaults. we don't get into that here.
[21:12:59] <lunaphyte> waldi: sorry, i'm not sure what you're getting after here.
[21:13:40] <ddd> what do you mean by "behave like a real system"?
[21:14:22] <ddd> i'm guessing postfix can handle the sending of mail inside the LAN?
[21:14:33] <ddd> it's all stored on one box anyways
[21:15:03] <lunaphyte> [8:05pm] ddd: as a little "real life simulation" by our prof
[21:15:34] <rob0> (point being that 'smsp' is not an official alias for 'submission', and that the submission protocol is actually SMTP?)
[21:15:35] <ddd> what i meant was that we had to freeze our specs beforehand
[21:15:50] <ddd> sorry if i wasnt clear
[21:16:29] <lunaphyte> did someone say that smsp was an official alias for submission?
[21:17:45] <buki> my /etc/services say smsp is 413/{udp,tcp}
[21:19:44] <lunaphyte> yup
[21:20:05] <lunaphyte> it's too bad, really. but oh well.
[21:20:37] <ddd> rob0 what did you mean by "implement what you plan to do in LDAP first in flat files"
[21:20:53] <ddd> the LDAP server is handled by someone else
[21:21:16] <rob0> what I meant was explained in the !database link I gave you ... 'understand the abstraction layer'
[21:21:35] <lunaphyte> forget about ldap for now. get it working without - then add ldap.
[21:22:41] <ddd> ok
[21:22:49] <ddd> i have a bunch of weird settings right now
[21:23:02] <ddd> any way to return the system to default settings?
[21:23:16] <lunaphyte> why do you think you have a bunch of weird settings?
[21:23:42] <ddd> because i've trial'd'n'error'd my way editing everything i think could help
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[21:24:06] <lunaphyte> oh, i see. you've changed a bunch of stuff.
[21:24:19] <lunaphyte> so then rename main.cf to main.cf.old
[21:24:28] <lunaphyte> then make a new, empty main.cf
[21:25:58] <rob0> The comments in the source-provided main.cf are helpful, but you can also create one from scratch by starting with !basic and adding things later as needed.
[21:26:06] <ddd> i've also changed a bunch of networking stuff
[21:26:06] <ddd> i'll just roll back to the snapshot i took upon installing debian
[21:26:14] <lunaphyte> yikes.
[21:26:19] <rob0> !debian
[21:26:20] <knoba> rob0: "debian" : Please see /usr/share/doc/postfix/README.Debian for Debian-specific information. This probably applies to Ubuntu and most other Debian-derivative distributions as well.
[21:26:47] <ddd> alright looks like i've got a bunch of reading to do
[21:27:31] <rob0> Took me a few years to get up to speed on mail and prerequisites.
[21:27:44] <ddd> T_T
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[21:48:59] <jeev> rob0, years? wow, took me minutes
[21:50:41] <lunaphyte> oh, sure. it's super easy to do a shitty job.
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[22:11:34] <jeev> rob0, i'm sure rob0 didn't do a shitty job, he had way too much time to do it
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[22:39:42] <ddd> hey rob0, lunaphyte, just curious, if done by a professional, how long would this ~ take?
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[22:52:58] <rob0> I'd allow a full day for it, but if Murphy and the customer stay out of the way, could probably complete it in a couple of hours. Time varies widely on what "it" is.
[22:56:55] <Blaster> hey im trying to setup postfix but im getting relay access denied for localhost.. where do I correct this?
[23:01:39] <rob0> !relay_denied
[23:01:39] <knoba> rob0: "relay_denied" : NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from CLIENT_HOST[CLIENT_IP]: 554 5.7.1 <RECIPIENT@RCPT_DOMAIN>: Relay access denied; from=<SENDER@SENDER_DOMAIN> to=<RECIPIENT@RCPT_DOMAIN> proto=ESMTP helo=<HELO>: This typically means that CLIENT_IP is not in mynetworks (and did not AUTH), and that RCPT_DOMAIN was not recognized as one of this Postfix's domains (not listed in mydestination, relay_domains or virtual_*_domains).
[23:01:45] <rob0> !basic
[23:01:45] <knoba> rob0: "basic" : http://www.postfix.org/BASIC_CONFIGURATION_README.html : a good starting place for Postfix beginners, many common questions are answered here.
[23:01:51] <rob0> !mynetworks
[23:01:51] <knoba> rob0: "mynetworks" : a configuration parameter in the main.cf: The list of "trusted" SMTP clients that can relay email.
[23:05:36] <Blaster> thanks
[23:05:56] <Blaster> does myhostname need to have an A record?
[23:07:50] <Blaster> or an MX record?
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[23:13:35] <MarkS-> Blaster: A record would be nice, MX record if you want to receive mail using that part as the domain part would be nice (but not required)
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[23:29:48] <rob0> 'does myhostname need to have an A (or MX) record?' has nothing at all to do with 'Relay access denied'
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[23:47:49] <adaptr> there should be a _myhostname TCP record
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   January 1, 2012  
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