May 24, 2011 
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May 24, 2011 [00:03:41] *** wdp has quit IRC[00:11:22] *** hever has joined #postfix[00:12:58] *** hever has joined #postfix[00:16:40] *** functor has quit IRC[00:17:38] *** sphenxes01 has quit IRC[00:23:06] *** mambaw has quit IRC[00:24:11] *** Zeit|awy has quit IRC[00:24:51] *** functor has joined #postfix[00:33:06] *** wame has quit IRC[00:33:32] *** wame has joined #postfix[00:38:50] *** basho__ has quit IRC[00:43:31] *** mu574n9 has quit IRC[00:45:14] *** mu574n9 has joined #postfix[00:48:54] *** loddafnir has quit IRC[00:50:44] *** Gatto has quit IRC[00:54:52] *** Timzzzz is now known as Timmooo[01:08:54] *** ketema has left #postfix[01:13:56] *** Matic`Makovec has quit IRC[01:21:18] *** pj has quit IRC[01:22:03] *** pj has joined #postfix[01:25:34] *** Toerkeium has quit IRC[01:25:59] *** Toerkeium has joined #postfix[01:27:42] *** Toerkeium has quit IRC[01:37:24] *** Toerkeium has joined #postfix[01:44:59] *** brancaleone has quit IRC[01:47:29] *** Motoko has quit IRC[01:48:31] *** Timmooo is now known as Timzzzz[01:48:56] *** ionte_ has joined #postfix[01:50:09] *** ionte has quit IRC[02:05:43] *** EugeneKaway is now known as EugeneKay[02:09:41] *** LinuxCode has quit IRC[02:10:54] *** weedar has joined #postfix[02:12:12] *** weedar has quit IRC[02:12:15] *** codeshah has joined #postfix[02:12:35] *** weedar has joined #postfix[02:13:32] *** weedar has quit IRC[02:13:57] *** weedar has joined #postfix[02:14:26] *** marchelly has quit IRC[02:14:55] *** kuhkatz has quit IRC[02:19:12] *** weedar has quit IRC[02:19:38] *** weedar has joined #postfix[02:27:07] *** path has joined #postfix[02:27:21] <path> hey guys, is it possible to hold all outgoing mail?[02:27:39] <path> like doing a transport? ALL: hold: ?[02:29:12] <seekwill> Why?[02:30:18] <path> because I need to hold all outgoing mail[02:33:41] <ichdasich> path: firewall all connections from your box to any other box on port 25[02:34:22] <ichdasich> will simulate a networkoutage. if configured correctly, that should just grow the queue[02:34:36] <ichdasich> s/if/if postfix is/[02:35:41] <seekwill> is that what he wants to do? simulate a network outage?[02:35:46] <seekwill> WHO KNOWS???[02:36:04] <path> hahaha[02:36:36] <path> indeed I just want to hold any outgoing email, and then flush them[02:37:30] <seekwill> Why?[02:37:36] <seekwill> no, nevermind. I lost interest[02:41:23] <path> ehehe[02:41:41] <tharkun> seekwill: I'm sponsoring an iPad 2 for my mom. Guess i will be able to play with it a little ;P[02:43:45] <seekwill> yay![02:46:18] <path> seekwill: actually I have some application which sends lots of email, but this time I _do_ _not_ want to send them.[02:46:34] <seekwill> no, nevermind. I lost interest[02:48:44] <jimpop> path: /etc/init.d/postfix stop[02:48:46] <path> :<[02:49:13] <path> I want to hold them, just not deliver[02:49:35] <jimpop> path: are the emails already in the queue?[02:50:00] <path> nope[02:50:38] <tharkun> path: 1000 ways to skin a cat. If the mail is beeing generated on another machine just firewall it out of the smarthost and the queue should be on the generating machine[02:50:48] <jimpop> path: use header_checks to place all emails on hold like so:[02:51:04] <jimpop> /^(To|From|Cc|Reply-To): / HOLD[02:51:13] <jimpop> !tell tharkun header_checks[02:51:13] <knoba> tharkun: "header_checks" : a configuration parameter in the main.cf: Optional lookup tables for content inspection of primary non-MIME message headers, as specified in the header_checks(5) manual page.[02:51:41] <jimpop> !tell path header_checks[02:51:42] <knoba> path: "header_checks" : a configuration parameter in the main.cf: Optional lookup tables for content inspection of primary non-MIME message headers, as specified in the header_checks(5) manual page.[02:51:51] <jimpop> sorry about that tharkun ;-)[02:51:53] <tharkun> !tell jimpop beer[02:51:54] <knoba> tharkun: Error: No factoid matches that key.[02:51:57] <jimpop> hah[02:52:04] <jimpop> !tell tharkun pie[02:52:04] <knoba> tharkun: "pie" : Postfix Integration Expert: A Postfix certification. The practical portion of the exam involves washing and waxing Dr. Venema's car. See also: !PEE[02:52:32] <tharkun> Good evening gentlemen time to catch some zzz[02:52:35] <Corey> That was mine.[02:52:36] <Corey> :-)[02:52:45] <Corey> !pee[02:52:45] <knoba> Corey: "pee" : Postfix Engineering Expert: An advanced Postfix certification. The practical portion of the exam involves causing physical harm to Dan Bernstein (DJB). See also: !PIE[02:53:12] *** weedar has quit IRC[02:53:23] *** weedar has joined #postfix[02:53:33] <jimpop> adaptr mentioned a third one yesterday[02:54:08] *** Cain` has joined #postfix[02:54:20] *** hever has quit IRC[02:55:18] <jimpop> my scroll back buffer didn't hold it[02:55:26] *** Cain has quit IRC[02:55:26] *** Cain` is now known as Cain[02:57:12] *** weedar has quit IRC[02:57:17] *** weedar has joined #postfix[02:59:11] *** weedar has quit IRC[02:59:18] *** weedar has joined #postfix[03:00:56] *** Timzzzz is now known as Timmooo[03:08:27] *** master_of_master has quit IRC[03:10:11] *** master_of_master has joined #postfix[03:13:27] *** mu574n9 has quit IRC[03:23:58] *** Timmooo is now known as Timzzzz[03:25:12] *** weedar has quit IRC[03:25:17] *** weedar has joined #postfix[03:33:12] *** weedar has quit IRC[03:33:18] *** weedar has joined #postfix[03:35:12] *** weedar has quit IRC[03:35:18] *** weedar has joined #postfix[03:37:12] *** weedar has quit IRC[03:37:17] *** 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#postfix[11:35:11] *** spungles has joined #postfix[11:36:22] <spungles> Hi all, I wonder if somebody could help me with a tcp_table issue.[11:36:50] <spungles> I have a dbmail instance running on one machine and postfix running on another machine[11:37:34] *** n0sq has quit IRC[11:37:48] <spungles> I would like to have user at sub dot domain.com forwarded to the correct dbmail instance, however, that's not known and I'd prefer not to have postfix configured for each domain[11:39:00] <spungles> so I've written a tcp_table server which when given 'get user at sub dot domain.com' checks that the email address is valid and replies with the relevant dbmail lmtp instance[11:39:34] <spungles> eg, lmtp:inet:10.0.0.1:24[11:39:57] <spungles> and I've set the virtual options in main.cf:[11:39:58] <spungles> virtual_mailbox_domains = regexp:/data/sys_postfix/conf/virtual-domains[11:39:58] <spungles> virtual_transport = tcp:[127.0.0.1]:9999[11:40:31] <spungles> however, I see postfix attempting delivery to 127.0.0.1:9999 instead of the response, so I'm wondering if I've misunderstood the docs[11:40:52] <spungles> any assistance would be greatly appreciated.[11:41:02] <internatg2> transport is the destination service[11:41:24] <internatg2> eg, what it should do with the mail once its been deremined that its a virtual mail.[11:42:20] <spungles> so if I want it to look up the lmtp endpoint, should I use another config optin instead?[11:42:31] <internatg2> i suspect so[11:42:52] <internatg2> im not sure what lmtp is :) but i know that virtual_transport is different[11:42:56] <internatg2> !virtual_transport[11:42:56] <knoba> internatg2: "virtual_transport" : a configuration parameter in the main.cf: The default mail delivery transport for domains that match the $virtual_mailbox_domains parameter value. This information can be overruled with the transport(5) table.[11:43:08] *** internatg2 is now known as Internat[11:43:19] <spungles> postmap -q "jira at foo dot domain.com" tcp:127.0.0.1:9999[11:43:20] <spungles> lmtp:inet:10.64.2.254:24[11:44:02] <pj> spungles: you misunderstand what virtual_transport is.[11:44:28] <pj> !tell spungles transport[11:44:28] <knoba> spungles: "transport" : transport(5) The optional transport(5) table specifies a mapping from email addresses to message delivery transports and next- hop destinations. Look at: http://www.postfix.org/transport.5.html[11:44:38] <Internat> ah there you go![11:45:19] <spungles> do want relay_transport then?[11:45:29] <spungles> or not using _transport at all?[11:47:18] <pj> !tell spungles transport_maps[11:47:18] <knoba> spungles: "transport_maps" : a configuration parameter in the main.cf: Optional lookup tables with mappings from recipient address to (message delivery transport, next-hop destination). See transport(5) for details.[11:49:03] <spungles> ooh, that looks like what I need.[11:49:08] <pj> yep[11:49:40] *** loddafnir1 has quit IRC[11:51:14] *** n0sq has joined #postfix[11:56:00] <spungles> pj: that's alot closer, thank you[11:56:01] <spungles> postfix/smtpd[1855218]: resolve_clnt: `' -> `jira at foo dot jira.com' -> transp=`lmtp' host=`inet:10.64.2.254:24' rcpt=`jira at foo dot jira.com' flags= class=default[11:57:00] <spungles> however, I still get relaying denied. I assume by having the domain in relay domains it should work?[11:57:29] *** breaker313 has quit IRC[11:57:40] *** breaker313 has joined #postfix[11:59:48] <spungles> well, turns out it does work if you use a regex instead of .domain.com[12:00:44] *** floridni has joined #postfix[12:00:49] <floridni> hi[12:01:08] <floridni> !welcome[12:01:08] <knoba> floridni: "welcome" : welcome to #postfix! if you're joining for the first time, or are new to irc, the first thing you'll want to do is read the channel topic (/topic). it includes crucial instructions on how to effectively ask for help here, and what data you should include with your questions. the degree of success you'll have is directly related to how effectively you're able to follow those guidelines.[12:02:01] <floridni> my postfix is working ok, it is configured with virtual users[12:02:44] <floridni> but now i need to relay from one server to this with working services[12:03:00] <floridni> what do i need to configure on proxy server?[12:03:13] *** cpm has joined #postfix[12:03:13] *** cpm has joined #postfix[12:07:25] <spungles> pj: thank you, that works very well.[12:08:10] <spungles> I have one further question though - what option should I use to calla similar tcp_table server to verify the address?[12:14:02] *** Timmooo is now known as Timzzzz[12:15:30] <pj> !tell spungles virtual_mailbox_maps[12:15:30] <knoba> spungles: "virtual_mailbox_maps" : a configuration parameter in the main.cf: Optional lookup tables with all valid addresses in the domains that match $virtual_mailbox_domains.[12:16:49] <pj> floridni: assuming the other server is running postfix...[12:17:05] <pj> !tell floridni relayhost[12:17:05] <knoba> floridni: "relayhost" : a configuration parameter in the main.cf: The default host to send non-local mail to when no entry is matched in the optional transport(5) table. When no relayhost is given, mail is routed directly to the destination. If your relay host requires authentication see the !saslclient channel factoid.[12:17:38] <floridni> tnx, i'll try[12:18:23] <spungles> pj: if I'm relaying to the domain via a transport_map, how does that go to a virtua_mailbox_map[12:18:25] <spungles> ?[12:19:09] <pj> spungles: virtual_mailbox_maps is a bit of a misnomer, it actually just tells postifx which email addresses are valid for virtual mailbox domains.[12:19:26] <Aprogas> And where the mailbox is stored.[12:19:34] <pj> well, true[12:19:49] <pj> but if postfix isn't delivering the emails then that part is pretty much ignored.[12:20:22] <Aprogas> I hadn't scrolled up yet.[12:20:26] <spungles> ok, so if I set the domain in virtual_domains and then to the tcp_table lookup in the v_m_maps, then it'll deliver to the lmtp server in transport_maps?[12:20:44] <spungles> ^s/to/do[12:21:18] *** floridni has left #postfix[12:22:23] <pj> spungles: yes, I'm not sure if you have to return some sort of valid location for virtual_mailbox_maps or if any true value will do. I suspect that if postfix isn't delivering the email then it doesn't matter as long as it returns something so you can probably just point it to the very same tcp table as transport_maps.[12:22:46] <Aprogas> I scrolled up and the thought that somes to mind is "why" ?[12:22:56] * pj shrugs[12:23:05] <pj> I tend not to ask that question often enough.[12:23:06] <pj> heh[12:23:14] <pj> but the "how" is easy enough, heh[12:23:38] <Aprogas> Does the "dbmail instance" speak SMTP?[12:23:45] <Aprogas> Or LMTP for that matter.[12:23:54] <spungles> it speaks LMTP[12:24:07] <spungles> I assume I could do a call forward[12:24:37] <Aprogas> I'm not sure if using a virtual address class is the way to go here, but I don't know what dbmail is or does.[12:24:40] <spungles> but I can avoid a call forward by doing a tcp_table call do a local daemon which would use (cheaper) internal lookups to determine a valid address[12:25:08] <spungles> basically, the dbmail instance only has 1 valid address per sub domain - jira at sub dot domain.com[12:25:32] <pj> Aprogas: I think that dbmail is a type of delivery agent / IMAP server, etc but it stores emails in a db instead of the filesystem.[12:25:48] <spungles> pj: pretty much.[12:27:49] <Aprogas> Have you read http://www.dbmail.org/dokuwiki/doku.php/setup_postfix ?[12:27:57] <spungles> yes[12:28:11] <Aprogas> You cannot use a tcp-table in virtual_transport but you can use one in transport_maps[12:28:29] <spungles> yep - I got that far.[12:28:30] <pj> Aprogas: yeah, we've already established that.[12:28:38] <spungles> and it's delivering the mail fine[12:29:24] <spungles> the trouble is due to the fact that the domain is in relay_domains, so it's accepting * at sub dot domain.com[12:29:57] <Aprogas> Right, so put it in virtual_mailbox_domains as the dbmail wiki suggests.[12:30:10] <Aprogas> And use the virtual_mailbox_maps that they suggest as well.[12:30:10] <spungles> if I can use a tcp-table in virtual_domains and in virtual_mailbox_maps, that will probably solve my issue.[12:30:27] <Aprogas> Isn't your list of virtual_mailbox_domains stored in SQL/LDAP as well?[12:30:46] <spungles> kind of[12:30:55] <spungles> it's stored in the DB, but there are N dbmail instances[12:31:07] <spungles> and they're prone to moving around[12:32:09] <Aprogas> If you can write a tcp-table-daemon that can find the moving DBs and talk to them, and return no value when queried for a nonexistent domain and some value when queried for an existent domain, that would work.[12:32:35] <spungles> yep[12:32:38] <spungles> I've already written one[12:32:44] <pj> you can use tcp tables anywhere that you can use any type of db lookup type.[12:32:59] <spungles> it's just my poor postfix stills that are preventing me from knowing where to plug it in :)[12:33:12] <spungles> I'm going to try in those virtual tables.[12:33:18] <pj> that includes virtual_domains, virtual_mailbox_maps, etc.[12:33:37] <Aprogas> If you cannot use the SQL-table directly, but you wrote a tcp-table-daemon that knows how to use them, use that tcp-table in place where the dbmail wiki uses SQL-tables.[12:34:10] <Aprogas> Not sure though why dbmail consults the dbmail_aliases table for virtual_mailbox_domains.[12:34:51] <Aprogas> It also seems they don't specify a seperate table for virtual domains, but look at the part after @ in all aliases/mailboxes defined.[12:35:06] <Aprogas> Not sure if that's efficient, sounds like an expensive query.[12:35:33] <spungles> yeah, they've got some more indexes and whatnot[12:35:36] <pj> not necessarily, it can be optimized.[12:36:04] <spungles> for my purposes though, I can do a dns lookup to see if the domain is valid[12:36:29] <Aprogas> Can you index on a substring?[12:36:32] <pj> that would be OK for your own local dns server.[12:36:41] <spungles> which is both cheap and doesn't require auth[12:36:43] <pj> I wouldn't trust a remote DNS server for that, though.[12:36:43] <Aprogas> I'm not very good at SQL.[12:36:56] <spungles> pj: yeah, it's all internal dns systems[12:37:10] <pj> Aprogas: not sure. I think it depends on the db, I think you can in postgresql.[12:37:19] <pj> not sure if you can in mysql[12:37:35] <spungles> mysql can index on foo%[12:37:45] <spungles> %foo% will always require a scan though[12:37:53] <spungles> and is considerred bad(tm)[12:37:54] <pj> you can always create a view out of it and index on that as well.[12:37:58] <Aprogas> I recently migrated a virtual aliases table from just specifying user at example dot net to having seperate local-part and domain-part (with domain-part being an integer foreign key to the virual_domains table)[12:38:51] <pj> well, I tend to like to keep a seperate table with the domains.[12:40:28] <pj> in postgresql you can (I think) index on any expression, so you can do the index on a substr function that returns the part after the @[12:41:04] <pj> so it can be optimized but that also tends to get complex.[12:41:45] <pj> but let's face it, unless you have several thousand mailboxes it's not going to be a very expensive query anyways.[12:45:23] <Aprogas> When you don't have a lot of mailboxes, it's the right time to learn how to do it properly if you would have a lot of mailboxes. :)[12:46:01] <pj> hehehe, fair enough[12:48:32] <pj> well, I think it's important to have a separate domains table anyways as there tends to be other info you will want to track on a domain-by-domain basis and it's redundant to store it for every mailbox.[12:49:16] *** marchelly has quit IRC[12:49:59] <Aprogas> I do it because I want to have some virtual aliases of the form " at example dot net @example.org" without backscatter.[12:50:28] <pj> well, yes there is that as well.[12:51:54] <pj> I do that as well, have alias domains and avoid backscatter by properly looking in other tables to see if the username part of the address is valid in the target domain before returning it as an alias.[12:52:50] <pj> anyways, I'm heading off to bed[12:53:30] *** pj has quit IRC[12:55:04] *** wdp_ has joined #postfix[12:58:04] *** wdp has quit IRC[13:09:01] *** empity has joined #postfix[13:10:48] *** cilly has quit IRC[13:18:16] *** UQlev has quit IRC[13:24:15] *** breaker313 has quit IRC[13:31:36] *** loddafnir1 has joined #postfix[13:39:40] *** cilly has joined #postfix[13:43:11] <spungles> Aprogas: thanks for your help - it's working nicely![13:43:58] *** spungles has quit IRC[13:47:22] *** e-jones has quit IRC[13:53:00] *** e-jones has joined #postfix[14:03:02] *** enhance-2k has quit IRC[14:12:06] *** TomHome has quit IRC[14:27:46] *** beginer has quit IRC[14:33:53] *** cmihai has joined #postfix[14:37:19] *** sjrussel has joined #postfix[14:44:35] *** hparker has joined #postfix[14:44:35] *** hparker has joined #postfix[14:51:27] <cmihai> !welcome[14:51:27] <knoba> cmihai: "welcome" : welcome to #postfix! if you're joining for the first time, or are new to irc, the first thing you'll want to do is read the channel topic (/topic). it includes crucial instructions on how to effectively ask for help here, and what data you should include with your questions. the degree of success you'll have is directly related to how effectively you're able to follow those guidelines.[15:04:26] *** tmade has joined #postfix[15:05:02] <tmade> !welcome[15:05:03] <knoba> tmade: "welcome" : welcome to #postfix! if you're joining for the first time, or are new to irc, the first thing you'll want to do is read the channel topic (/topic). it includes crucial instructions on how to effectively ask for help here, and what data you should include with your questions. the degree of success you'll have is directly related to how effectively you're able to follow those guidelines.[15:09:19] *** kuhkatz has joined #postfix[15:11:20] <tmade> hello everybody. i´m running postfix to send status of several scripts by email. addtionally i´m getting systemmessages (initiated by cronjobs) by mail. how can i disable those?[15:20:57] *** loddafnir1 has quit IRC[15:21:22] *** trurl has quit IRC[15:23:46] <tmade> nobody here who can help me?[15:24:40] *** trurl has joined #postfix[15:27:17] <locohost> log watch emails?[15:36:10] *** Section1 has joined #postfix[15:39:17] *** Zblakany has joined #postfix[15:41:21] <tmade> locohost: i´m executing scripts via cronjobs. the script is sending status mails (cat *.log | mail ...). But additionally I´m getting messages from other cronjobs (e.g. nscd restart) and those i don´t want, and i don´t know why i´m getting this.[15:43:23] <patdk-wk> cron emails the output of anything it runs to the owner[15:43:33] <patdk-wk> so make sure those jobs don't have any output[15:44:44] <tmade> That´s my cronjob: "0 * * * * /etc/init.d/nscd restart" . I don´t know why this job is sendeing a mail!?[15:48:02] <tmade> patdk-wk: "so make sure those jobs don't have any output". the job is logged in /var/log/messages, but there´s no additionally output!?[15:49:16] *** morphine has joined #postfix[15:51:14] *** mikealeonetti has joined #postfix[15:51:35] <mikealeonetti> there is a failover relayhost option right?[15:51:41] *** morphine has left #postfix[15:52:35] <mikealeonetti> well, more correctly "what is the failover or secondary relayhost option?"[15:53:33] <jumperboy> tmade: some jobs produce output, which gets mailed to whoever is running the cronjob. to silence this, you can redirect the output to /dev/null: 0 * * * * /bin/something &> /dev/null[15:53:43] *** Lenhix has joined #postfix[15:53:53] <jumperboy> tmade: or 1> /dev/null, etc. depending on your needs[15:54:27] <tmade> jumperboy: thanks! i´ll try[15:54:51] *** dmallor has joined #postfix[15:56:52] <cmihai> What's the current "trend" in spam filtering?[15:57:22] <cmihai> Was thinkg something along the lines of policyd-weight (scoring DNSBLs, RBL, RHSBL, HELO / MAIL FROM before queuing), SPF, SenderID, DomainKeys/DKIM then amavisd-new (SA, ClamAV). And throwing greylisting somewhere in there for good measure (Postgrey perhaps). Though I see Postfix now supports greylisting via "Access Policy Delegation". Not sure what I should be using.[15:58:02] <cmihai> Some of this stuff probably made it into Postfix, other may be obsolete.[15:59:20] <f3ew> All those things are supported[16:00:29] <Aprogas> Most current trend would be postscreen.[16:01:02] *** lysander has quit IRC[16:01:15] <Aprogas> If you use a good set of blacklists and some other basic restrictions, you can probably do without greylisting.[16:02:01] <cmihai> Hm.. didn't know about postscreen, thanks.[16:02:18] <rob0> postscreen does both the DNSBLs (and dnswl!) scoring, as well as a rudimentary greylist-like functionality[16:02:27] *** gimpy1352 has joined #postfix[16:02:55] <cmihai> Sounds useful. I'd rather keep the list of 3rd party software at a minimum.[16:03:23] <rob0> You still should keep your old smtpd restrictions in place, especially since some of them cannot be done in postscreen.[16:03:24] *** gimpy1352 is now known as gimpy2938[16:04:16] <gimpy2938> I'm moving a system from sendmial to postfix, how do I tell postfix to not return the message content on bounces?[16:04:26] <cmihai> Yeah, I'll keep the smtpd_*_restrictions rules.[16:04:39] <rob0> !postscreen[16:04:40] <knoba> rob0: "postscreen" : SMTP triage server available in Postfix 2.8, see http://www.postfix.org/POSTSCREEN_README.html and http://www.postfix.org/postscreen.8.html[16:05:24] *** tmade has quit IRC[16:06:04] <cmihai> 2.8? Damn. I'm stuck with 2.3 and 2.5 :-)[16:06:35] <rob0> heh, < cmihai> What's the current "trend" in spam filtering?[16:06:49] <rob0> You can't be "current" on the old versions.[16:07:06] <cmihai> Fair enough :-). The penalty of using the latest and greatest in SLES and RHEL I guess :P[16:07:34] <rob0> postfix.wl.org ... SRPMs for Postfix[16:07:34] <Aprogas> Use a better OS.[16:07:45] * f3ew smacks Aprogas[16:07:51] <cmihai> Sure, I'll use CentOS. Oh, wait.[16:07:53] <cmihai> *Sigh* :-)[16:08:02] <Aprogas> For a dedicated mailserver, an OS/distro that frequently has outdated Postfix packages, it probably not the best choice.[16:08:14] *** gremset has joined #postfix[16:08:23] <rob0> ** postfix.wl0.org ... SRPMs for Postfix[16:08:33] <Aprogas> f3ew: That came out a bit harsher than I intended. I meant to say "Use the right OS/distro for the job"[16:08:54] <f3ew> Aprogas, you can always upgrade Postfix and keep the rest of the system stable[16:09:12] <cmihai> rob0: thanks, I guess it wouldn't hurt to rebuild Postfix.[16:09:29] <matadore> Anyone recommend some literature on building a scalable clustered system? something that can send a couple of 100ks if not mill if needed? so far i got multiple instances, fallback relays and load balancing going on all.[16:09:31] <Aprogas> Yes, you could. But personally I'd just use an OS/distro with up-to-date Postfix packages.[16:09:46] *** wdp_ has quit IRC[16:09:48] <Aprogas> matadore: Weren't you adviced thoroughly on this yesterday by seekwill?[16:10:16] <matadore> Aprogas: somewhat, he didnt go into details just mentioned whitelistning[16:13:55] <rob0> If you need details in IRC on clustering, perhaps you need to outsource.[16:14:33] <f3ew> Hmmm[16:14:42] <f3ew> There's a nice presentation from inboxevent[16:16:21] *** mikealeonetti has left #postfix[16:16:29] <f3ew> https://www.socialtext.net/data/workspaces/inboxevent/attachments/presentation:20040610001405/original/mailboxes-srs-inboxevent2004.ppt[16:17:07] *** KaiForce has quit IRC[16:20:03] <cmihai> Hmm, not bad. Did a bit of greylisting / filtering gateway stuff, but never tried mailbox replication.[16:20:03] <cmihai>[16:22:14] *** cilly has quit IRC[16:26:40] *** UQlev has joined #postfix[16:31:25] *** lysander has joined #postfix[16:31:33] <f3ew> matadore, did you see the presentation?[16:32:13] <matadore> am viewing it now[16:35:37] *** cilly has joined #postfix[16:37:09] *** shoonya has joined #postfix[16:43:12] *** jujugre has joined #postfix[16:43:47] *** abramart has quit IRC[16:45:21] *** clouseau has joined #postfix[16:45:49] <clouseau> !welcome[16:45:49] <knoba> clouseau: "welcome" : welcome to #postfix! if you're joining for the first time, or are new to irc, the first thing you'll want to do is read the channel topic (/topic). it includes crucial instructions on how to effectively ask for help here, and what data you should include with your questions. the degree of success you'll have is directly related to how effectively you're able to follow those guidelines.[16:46:18] *** jujugre has quit IRC[16:49:00] *** RecQuery has quit IRC[16:49:55] *** RecQuery has joined #postfix[16:49:56] *** RecQuery has joined #postfix[16:50:58] <clouseau> I have email being sent out from a webserver. It relays it through mail.example.edu. When that mail bounces, it comes back to mail.example.edu which tries to deliver it to apache at www dot example.edu. I expected that email to be delivered to me because in /etc/aliases apache is aliased to root which is aliased to my email address.[16:51:45] <matadore> f3ew: thanks alot, that helped a bit, atleast i know that am on the right track with deferred and fallbacks .[16:51:55] <clouseau> But instead on mail.example.edu I get Command output: couldn't connect to lmtpd: No such file or directory_ 421[16:52:54] <clouseau> can someone help me understand how I could tell mail.example.edu to just send email addressed to apache at www dot example.edu or www at www dot example.edu to my email address instead, since that's ultimately what I want?[16:53:11] *** Fallenou has quit IRC[16:54:01] <f3ew> clouseau, your local transport, or the transport for www,example.edu is set to lmtp[16:54:04] <UQlev> clouseau: aliases or virtual aliases[16:55:24] <Aprogas> Perhaps it's best if you make a pastebin with output of postconf -n, so that we can review your entire configuration.[16:57:13] <clouseau> OK, first, what is the best approach -- to tell mail.example.edu to deliver to me and just turn mail receiving on www.example.edu off?[16:57:41] <clouseau> I'll post the main.cf file from mail.example.edu[16:58:43] *** matadore has quit IRC[16:58:44] <Aprogas> Personally I'd just have the CGI/PHP/etc.-script set the correct sender address; but it's still wise to alias system users to your personal mail account.[16:58:53] <Aprogas> Please pastebin postconf -n instead of main.cf[16:59:07] *** wdp has joined #postfix[16:59:07] *** wdp has joined #postfix[16:59:19] <UQlev> clouseau: on adresses like www@ or webmaster@ you will get double as much spam[17:01:30] <clouseau> OK, here is the output from postconf -n on the mail server, which is running OS X 10.5. http://pastebin.ca/2068455[17:02:06] *** e-jones has quit IRC[17:03:23] *** jujugre has joined #postfix[17:04:12] <clouseau> and here is postconf -n from the web server, which is running RHEL5: http://pastebin.ca/2068460[17:04:56] *** cilly has quit IRC[17:06:14] *** shoonya has quit IRC[17:07:57] <UQlev> clouseau: mynetworks = < are all those your external clients? :)[17:07:57] <Aprogas> Your OS X configuration uses certain settings I don't recognize, and neither does the Postfix documentation.[17:08:11] <Aprogas> Which of these servers is supposed to do the www/apache-aliasing?[17:08:43] <clouseau> UQlev: that corresponds with "Relay mail from these hosts" in OS X Server's cheesy GUI[17:09:23] <UQlev> clouseau: what is smtp-auth for?[17:10:03] <clouseau> Aprogas: the webserver relays mail out through the mailserver. The mailserver receives the bounces and currently can't deliver them because I don't know how to forward the bounces to me. That's the problem in a nutshell.[17:10:20] <UQlev> clouseau: and especially submission[17:11:00] <clouseau> UQlev: you're saying that smtp-auth is a better solution than what the GUI is writing to the conf files?[17:12:14] <UQlev> clouseau: if you set aliases for root and postmaster all bounces should be relayed to it[17:12:29] <dmallor> Hello all. Can anyone help me out with some TLS client issues I am having with postfix?[17:13:04] *** loddafnir has joined #postfix[17:13:24] <clouseau> UQlev: I agree. But that's not happening. root and postmaster are aliased to my address on the webserver. But the mailserver doesn't want to deliver the mail to the webserver; I get that lmtpd error.[17:13:34] <UQlev> dmallor: no'one can do it yet[17:14:03] <patdk-wk> clouseau, did you post the postconf -n of the mail server?[17:14:07] <clouseau> I'd like to be able to tell the mailserver, "don't even try to deliver mail to the webserver; send incoming mail that is addressed to that host to me instead"[17:14:15] <Aprogas> I'm still not sure which server is which.[17:14:23] <dmallor> ?.. I setup up TLS enforce for client mode but postfix complains the remote end does not support it yet I know it does (TLS is required, but was not offered)[17:14:23] <clouseau> patdk-wk: yes, it's here: http://pastebin.ca/2068455[17:14:34] <Aprogas> Or rather why the webserver runs a Postfix as well.[17:14:57] <patdk-wk> ya, I wouldn't run postfix on the webserver, but if that is what he wishs :)[17:14:57] <clouseau> Aprogas: the webserver runs a postfix to queue outgoing mail in case the mailserver is down.[17:15:04] <dmallor> postfix works perfect as a server for TLS, just not sending out.[17:15:12] <clouseau> If there's a better way to do it, I'm all ears.[17:15:42] *** dmallor has quit IRC[17:15:44] <Aprogas> Is www.example.edu in mydestination on the webserver?[17:15:47] <patdk-wk> what is the *real* domain the webserver is using for it's mail?[17:15:55] *** dmallor has joined #postfix[17:16:11] <patdk-wk> oh, that is why, www.ent.iastate.edu is in mydestination[17:16:13] <clouseau> patdk-wk: www.ent.iastate.edu[17:16:20] <patdk-wk> so the mail server thinks it owns that domain[17:16:28] <UQlev> dmallor: postconf -a, and postconf -A[17:16:28] <patdk-wk> it should be in relay[17:16:43] <patdk-wk> but personally, I would just alias it on the mail server, and leave the webserver out of it[17:16:50] <clouseau> yes, yes...how do I do that?[17:17:01] <dmallor> cyrus[17:17:01] <dmallor> dovecot[17:17:01] <dmallor> cyrus[17:17:08] <patdk-wk> do what? alias it?[17:17:10] *** athemiya889 has joined #postfix[17:17:19] *** Twinkletoes has joined #postfix[17:17:24] <clouseau> patdk-wk: yes, alias it so that email to www.ent.iastate.edu goes to my email address[17:17:35] <dmallor> not using imap.. just using postfix as simple smtp relay server[17:17:39] <Aprogas> I concur with patdk-wk. If the webserver does only outgoing, don't both with alias_maps on that server. Also don't make it do any local delivery and pass it all to the "hub".[17:19:17] <patdk-wk> shoving like, @www.ent.iastate.edu youremail at mail dot ent.iastate.edu into the aliases file?[17:19:50] <patdk-wk> can't say I will be syntax correct, I always use virtual domains[17:20:55] *** athemiya889 has left #postfix[17:21:47] <Aprogas> I think on a nullclient you just remove all domains from mydestination, so Postfix will do MX-lookups for those domains as well.[17:22:50] <patdk-wk> ya, mydestination will be blank on the web server config[17:22:52] * cpm uses the rob0 null client[17:22:56] <clouseau> so are there criteria for deciding whether it is better to add @www.ent.iastate.edu: myemail at mail dot ent.iastate.edu to the /etc/aliases file or to use virtual domains?[17:23:35] <Aprogas> local aliases don't work on domain-level in the left-hand-side.[17:23:59] <clouseau> ok, so I need to set up virtual domains for www.ent.iastate.edu[17:24:10] *** athemiya1 has joined #postfix[17:24:10] <dmallor> any suggestion on my TLS issue? I get the same error no matter what TLS server/domain I send to.[17:24:11] *** gremset has quit IRC[17:24:20] <patdk-wk> so it would require like a recipient_map? or virtual domain[17:24:28] *** gremset has joined #postfix[17:24:34] <Aprogas> Only if you want seperate user-spaces, i.e. a localpart for @www.ent.iastate.edu means different from localpart for @mail.ent.iastate.edu[17:24:46] <athemiya1> Hi guys and gals. Shall I post a postconf -n before asking a q?[17:24:47] *** codeshah has joined #postfix[17:25:05] <Aprogas> athemiya1: Yes, but please to a pastebin.[17:25:28] <athemiya1> any links to how to use pastebin please?[17:25:37] <patdk-wk> !tell dmallor welcome[17:25:37] <knoba> dmallor: "welcome" : welcome to #postfix! if you're joining for the first time, or are new to irc, the first thing you'll want to do is read the channel topic (/topic). it includes crucial instructions on how to effectively ask for help here, and what data you should include with your questions. the degree of success you'll have is directly related to how effectively you're able to follow those guidelines.[17:27:11] <Aprogas> athemiya1: I like http://pastie.org/[17:29:27] <athemiya1> thanks Aprogas - all done now[17:29:33] *** roe has quit IRC[17:29:52] <Aprogas> athemiya1: Then you have to give this channel the link to the respective pastebin-id for it to be effective.[17:30:06] <athemiya1> OK, shall I explain first?[17:30:10] *** roe_ has joined #postfix[17:30:10] *** roe_ has joined #postfix[17:30:58] <Aprogas> No, share the URL to the pastebin first.[17:31:11] <athemiya1> http://pastie.org/1966672[17:31:46] <dmallor> my postconf -n ( http://pastebin.com/HdXn3yM9 )[17:33:03] <patdk-wk> dmallor, you shouldn't use smtp_use_tls and smtp_tls_security_level[17:35:25] <clouseau> I tried adding @www.ent.iastate.edu: root to /etc/aliases but got the error "name must be local"[17:35:28] <dmallor> my debug log ( http://pastebin.com/gbRZQdNL )[17:36:11] <patdk-wk> hmm, works perfectly for me[17:37:23] <patdk-wk> well, that is probably your issue[17:37:30] <patdk-wk> enabling PIX workarounds[17:38:06] <dmallor> that to me I assume ? :)[17:38:08] <athemiya1> Aprogas -what do you think?[17:38:12] <patdk-wk> yep[17:38:21] <dmallor> how to turn off?[17:38:42] <patdk-wk> dunno, but your likely break the pix then[17:39:19] <dmallor> still not sure how that affects postfix ignoring STARTTLS option on EHLO[17:39:42] <patdk-wk> "nabling PIX workarounds: disable_esmtp"[17:39:47] <athemiya1> postconf -n ( http://pastie.org/1966672 )[17:39:49] *** UQlev has quit IRC[17:39:55] <patdk-wk> no esmtp == no EHLO == no tls[17:40:04] <dmallor> ahhh[17:40:40] <patdk-wk> try port 587?[17:40:57] <athemiya1> Anyone free to help at all please?[17:40:59] <dmallor> remote servers don't listen on it[17:41:27] *** Southron has joined #postfix[17:45:58] <clouseau> ok, here is a graphical depiction of what I want to do: http://www.ent.iastate.edu/temp/mail.png[17:46:47] <hever> I know it's not the best channel to ask but I think you can help me. I want to know if PGP/GPG is business ready, that means if a PKI is implemented? Actually I just got a S/MIME test cert from verisign and everything is fine and every recipient could easily validate that my signature is correct. How would it be in PGP?[17:47:03] <dmallor> so is my issue that the PIX is filtering and should not be?[17:48:00] <athemiya1> postconf -n ( http://pastebin.com/tYAQPWMW ) and mail.log ( http://pastebin.com/y3YLRQ1Z )[17:48:01] *** ced117 has joined #postfix[17:48:01] *** ced117 has joined #postfix[17:48:09] *** havoc has quit IRC[17:49:24] *** havoc has joined #postfix[17:49:51] <athemiya1> postconf -n ( http://pastebin.com/tYAQPWMW ) and mail.log ( http://pastebin.com/y3YLRQ1Z )[17:52:04] <patdk-wk> athemiya1, I fail to see an issue[17:52:24] <patdk-wk> you sent an email to an invalid address, the other persons mailserver told you that, and rejected the email[17:53:35] <athemiya1> Hi patdk-wk -Oh well this is what is weird for me to understand. Postfix is happy sending emails to the same domain the server is on -but when it trys to send an email outside of it, it comes up as unknown user -when the address is clearly correct. As if it is looking locally only?[17:55:00] <patdk-wk> try sending to a valid email address?[17:55:16] *** iamchrisf has joined #postfix[17:55:35] <rob0> !mung[17:55:35] <knoba> rob0: "mung" : Mash Until No Good : the art of obfuscating data which ultimately results in unintentional consequences such as making diagnostics impossible.[17:55:45] <athemiya1> it works fine for all emails sent to domain1.com but when you try to send it to domain2.com (domain2 is not the same domain that the server is on - i.e. the server is on domain1) it doesnt work.[17:55:55] <iamchrisf> Is there a simple way to route all mail to a single address? I've been looking for an example for quite a while and turning up empty.[17:56:46] <robtone> iamchrisf, what is "all mail"? Also mail for Barack Obama?[17:56:49] <rob0> Stop munging domains. You probably won't figure out mail routing issues on your own, and you will definitely make it impossible for others to figure it out with the munging.[17:57:13] <dmallor> patdk-wk.. I can definately see it now that you mention it. If I telnet from outside somewhere EHLO shows STARTTLS. But from inside it looks like PIX is masking it with XXXXX[17:57:14] <dmallor> 250-XXXXXXXA[17:57:14] <dmallor> 250 SIZE[17:57:28] <rob0> "Dear Barack, I hope your limo is fixed."[17:57:41] <rob0> !cisco_pix[17:57:41] <knoba> rob0: "cisco_pix" : The Cisco PIX and ASA firewall has a SMTP proxy feature called SMTP Fixup which breaks ESMTP. If your Postfix server is behind such a firewall you should disable this feature.[17:57:51] <iamchrisf> robtone: all mail sent through the postfix mta needs to be forwarded to a single mail address[17:57:52] *** empity has quit IRC[17:57:55] <dmallor> yup.. just saw that as well[17:58:09] <dmallor> en[17:58:09] <dmallor> conf t[17:58:09] <dmallor> no fixup smtp[17:58:09] <dmallor> ^Z[17:58:09] <dmallor> wr mem[17:58:09] <rob0> !tell iamchrisf blackhole[17:58:09] <knoba> iamchrisf: "blackhole" : http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/postfix/2010-04/0168.html[17:58:30] <iamchrisf> Ahhh yes... the word I was looking for "blackhole"[17:58:51] <athemiya1> the emails I am sending to are definitely correct, its just that postfix is not sending them[17:59:41] <iamchrisf> basic example is we have prod data on stg env but want emails to go to test account. make sense right?[18:01:06] <rob0> not really, but it's a FAQ, so I made the !blackhole factoid[18:01:13] <athemiya1> Its almost as if Postfix is looking locally for the email address!?[18:01:29] * cpm checks the !rob0 factoid[18:02:58] <sysmonk> cpm: how's your lithuanian lessons?:)[18:03:05] * robtone sees a segfault at knoba[18:04:18] <cpm> sysmonk, pretty awful, but I'm trying. (very trying)[18:04:33] <cpm> or, no worse than my russian[18:04:34] <cpm> :)[18:04:44] *** fahadsadah has quit IRC[18:05:00] <sysmonk> well, at least you know your russian 'naturally' and not by google translate[18:05:03] <sysmonk> or am i wrong?[18:05:04] *** gremset has quit IRC[18:05:11] *** gremset has joined #postfix[18:05:31] *** dscastro has joined #postfix[18:05:33] <dscastro> hi..[18:05:45] <cpm> sysmonk, I've cheated by using google for some nouns and stuff. But I try to construct the grammar myself.[18:05:50] <dscastro> can i inject messages in queue directly?[18:06:11] <dscastro> moving files to them[18:06:17] <sysmonk> cpm: great then :)[18:06:30] <sysmonk> come visit lithuania when you're not buzy :P[18:09:15] *** athemiya1 has quit IRC[18:12:18] *** fahadsadah has joined #postfix[18:13:10] *** jujugre has left #postfix[18:20:17] *** athemiya has joined #postfix[18:20:24] <athemiya> i's back[18:21:48] *** turbomettwurst has quit IRC[18:25:27] *** loddafnir has quit IRC[18:31:03] *** brancaleone has quit IRC[18:35:13] <cpm> sysmonk, I hope to some day[18:35:26] <athemiya> does anyone know how best to configure a smarthost or tell a postfix server that it doesnt own the domain you are trying to send an email to?[18:37:21] <rob0> athemiya: 15:59 < rob0> Stop munging domains. You probably won't figure out mail routing issues on your own, and you will definitely make it impossible for others to figure it out with the munging.[18:37:36] *** codeshah has quit IRC[18:37:49] <rob0> I suggest a single pastebin containing relevant logs and "postconf -n" output with real domain names.[18:38:23] <athemiya> sorry for the munging. ISnt real domain names a no?[18:38:40] <patdk-wk> your afraid someone is going whois you?[18:38:44] <patdk-wk> it's public info anyways[18:38:47] <athemiya> they can anyway :)[18:39:19] <athemiya> I dont really know the best way to export the logs from putty -the bugger goes beyond the screen and i cant capture it all[18:39:51] * patdk-wk doesn't use windows/putty, so wouldn't know[18:40:05] <athemiya> ok hold for 2[18:48:43] *** seekwill has joined #postfix[18:49:19] <athemiya> Got it -had to use vi as an editor - mail.log ( http://pastebin.com/Cc806zHu )[18:49:32] *** mu574n9 has joined #postfix[18:50:37] *** jfried has quit IRC[18:51:11] <rob0> sussex.ac.uk is in mydestination[18:51:36] <rob0> oh, there is no postconf in that.[18:51:55] <athemiya> one sec...[18:53:43] <athemiya> posconf -n and mail.log ( http://pastebin.com/jbRZmVY3 )[18:54:08] <rob0> !basic[18:54:08] <knoba> rob0: "basic" : http://www.postfix.org/BASIC_CONFIGURATION_README.html : a good starting place for Postfix beginners, many common questions are answered here.[18:54:30] <rob0> don't list domains in mydestination if you don't want to handle them locally[18:54:41] <rob0> !mydestination[18:54:41] <knoba> rob0: "mydestination" : a configuration parameter in the main.cf: The list of domains that Postfix delivers via the $local_transport mail delivery transport. By default, mail is given to the Postfix local(8) delivery agent that looks up all recipients in /etc/passwd and /etc/aliases, or their equivalents. See http://www.postfix.org/postconf.5.html#mydestination for more information.[18:54:53] <athemiya> Oh really? I was having problems with local_recipient_table issues when they weren't in there[18:56:21] <rob0> why: "local_recipient_maps ="[18:56:27] <rob0> very bad idea[18:56:42] *** mu574n9 has quit IRC[18:57:04] <athemiya> rob0: why is that a bad idea?[18:57:17] <rob0> !backscatter[18:57:18] <knoba> rob0: "backscatter" : see http://www.postfix.org/BACKSCATTER_README.html - Basically backscatter are bounces sent to innocent systems. A spammer sent email in behalf of the victim's system. Undeliverable emails get bounced to the victim.[18:57:24] <rob0> !address_classes[18:57:24] <knoba> rob0: "address_classes" : http://www.postfix.org/ADDRESS_CLASS_README.html describes how Postfix deals with different classes of addresses: local, relay, virtual alias, virtual mailbox, and Internet.[18:58:09] <athemiya> I understand.. So the fact the mydestination has domains listed, postfix then believed that they were all local?[18:58:42] <rob0> that's what mydestination means[18:59:31] <athemiya> OK. Sorry, I'm a beginner and I have spent a considerable amount of time on-line and reading.. I havent done too bad configuring everything else, this is my final hurdle[19:00:41] *** Twinkletoes has quit IRC[19:01:48] <athemiya> Yes, I'm now getting connection refused errors -this must be to do with smtp authentication and ensuring postfix sends the email as a user rather than 'root'[19:03:15] <rob0> uh, "postfix sends the email as a user rather than 'root'", Postfix takes SMTP connections, or any user can invoke sendmail(1).[19:03:35] <rob0> If root send the mail, it is from ... root[19:04:00] <rob0> unless root decided to use a different sender address, of couruse[19:04:22] <athemiya> Yeah, but if the connection is refused from another smtp server (in this case the one that handles h.d.yousif at sussex dot ac.uk) -then postfix must need to be authenticated against that smtp server[19:06:23] <athemiya> Yep, just got: you must use authenticated smtp to connect in the logs.[19:06:46] <athemiya> So now I must spend some time configuring main.cf and saslauthd probably[19:08:29] *** Astroman has joined #postfix[19:09:23] *** Astroman2 has quit IRC[19:15:18] <rob0> If you need SASL AUTH, Dovecot SASL is generally easier and better, especially if you're using Dovecot IMAP.[19:17:11] <patdk-wk> heh?[19:17:19] <patdk-wk> he is talking about stmp auth, not smtpd[19:17:22] <patdk-wk> smtp[19:18:21] <rob0> oh, indeed, I was looking at the postconf, which shows no sign of client auth, but does have Cyrus server SASL.[19:18:36] <rob0> !saslclient[19:18:36] <knoba> rob0: "saslclient" : See http://www.postfix.org/SASL_README.html#client_sasl when you need client-side SASL authentication to deliver mail to another server[19:19:14] <patdk-wk> ya, he really only half knows how to explain what he is doing, making it even harder to help[19:19:56] * patdk-wk still wonders why he needs smtpauth to send mail to that address though, or is athemiya really attempting to relay mail through it?[19:22:27] <athemiya> Because in order to send any mail through that domain, it requires you to be authenticated[19:23:34] <athemiya> Oh yes, got it working :)[19:24:25] <athemiya> The sending emails works now :)[19:25:05] *** Lenhix has quit IRC[19:26:26] <gimpy2938> I'm moving a system from sendmail to postfix, how do I tell postfix to not return the message content on bounces?[19:27:45] <seekwill> I usually find the message content helpful :)[19:28:16] <gimpy2938> seekwill: Yea, but I was asked to do this to help with backscatter.[19:28:37] <seekwill> Help with?[19:29:13] <f3ew> gimpy2938, you tell Postfix not to accept email for unknown users[19:29:36] <rob0> Stop the backscatter. Solve the right problem, not the wrong one.[19:29:41] <gimpy2938> f3ew: I our environment, that's not possible since the server doesn't *directly* receive mail but rtaher gets it from others.[19:29:54] <rob0> Then you will be dealt with as a spammer.[19:29:57] <seekwill> oh man[19:30:12] <patdk-wk> what do you mean by, get it from others?[19:30:18] <gimpy2938> Spam filter -> backbone -> postifx[19:30:29] <patdk-wk> if someone else handles your email, they should have a valid list if addresses to receive for[19:30:31] <rob0> Keep it on Sendmail until you get blacklisted.[19:31:21] <gimpy2938> That backbone doesn't know what addresses exist on the postfix server (mailman lists) so it has to accept them all. Then when email goes out, the outbound filtering on the spam filters gets rid of most problem messages.[19:31:27] <patdk-wk> bounce emails with content, and without content, are still bounce emails, and considered spam[19:31:51] <seekwill> Why can't the backbone know?[19:31:56] <f3ew> Fix the backbone![19:32:06] <patdk-wk> hell, screw the backbone, why can't the spam filter know?[19:32:26] <seekwill> What kind of spam filter?[19:32:29] <seekwill> Commercial?[19:32:31] <gimpy2938> I know guys, I know....not my decision and I'm trying to have changes made, but for now I need to put some band-aids on the list server.[19:32:47] <seekwill> gimpy2938: What you're asking doesn't really help at all[19:33:08] <seekwill> gimpy2938: We can help fix the bigger issue[19:33:11] <gimpy2938> patdk-wk: The spam filter does know *most* of the valid names, but not all, as I understand it.[19:33:47] <patdk-wk> all the spamfilters I work with do ldap lookups, and I just point them to my ldap server of valid email addresses :)[19:34:02] <gimpy2938> seekwill: Alright. My idea is to take the backbone out of the picture so that the spam filter will ask postfix on the list server if it is a valid address during the protocol.[19:34:09] <seekwill> Yeah[19:34:13] <seekwill> What kind of spam filter?[19:34:18] <gimpy2938> patdk-wk: Mailman lists aren't in LDAP.[19:34:23] <gimpy2938> Postini.[19:34:27] <seekwill> oh[19:35:09] <patdk-wk> no idea how postini works[19:35:19] <seekwill> I don't either. I've only used onsite stuff :/[19:36:46] <f3ew> Think of it as a hosted spamassassin[19:36:55] <patdk-wk> postini uses ldap[19:37:08] <patdk-wk> they call it, directory sync[19:37:16] <seekwill> cool[19:37:23] <gimpy2938> Some things postini does with outbound filtering is weird. If it sees blatent spam is changes the name from foo at place dot tld to +._-foo at place dot tld and then the server send it back out and then postini sees that and drops it. Also, the "re-injecteD" mail goes through the backbone, not directly to postfix.[19:37:37] <gimpy2938> I don't get that much of it either, it seems weird to me.[19:37:38] <patdk-wk> http://www.postini.com/dir_sync/[19:37:58] <gimpy2938> Again, mailman lists are not in LDAP.[19:38:02] <patdk-wk> so?[19:38:14] <patdk-wk> you can make a ldap interface to just about anything[19:38:24] <patdk-wk> openldap supports so many kinds of backends[19:38:43] <seekwill> gimpy2938: How serious are you about fixing the actual problem?[19:38:52] <seekwill> :)[19:39:12] <patdk-wk> hell, the lazy method would be to parse your mailman stuff every hour, and dump it into a seperate ldap :)[19:39:19] <gimpy2938> I'd like it fixed, but I don't think LDAP is the ebst approach.[19:39:34] <patdk-wk> ldap is a great method for doing just that, lookups[19:39:52] <patdk-wk> it might not be the best for your config and stuff, but it's excellent for checking for valid addresses[19:40:32] <seekwill> gimpy2938: Why not?[19:41:43] <gimpy2938> patdk-wk: Indeed, but if I can get postini to send mail directly to it instead of using the backbone, it should do it within the protocol and be done with it.[19:42:23] <patdk-wk> not really[19:42:33] <patdk-wk> they would have to do a no-queue method for that to work[19:44:59] <gimpy2938> patdk-wk: It may already, I don't know.[19:46:04] <patdk-wk> it doesn't[19:48:28] <gimpy2938> patdk-wk: So you're saying the only way to make it work would to to set up some sort of LDAP server which pulls data from the alias database which mailman creates on the list server and configure postini or reference that?[19:49:24] <patdk-wk> the most simplistic method to solve it, yep[19:49:29] *** brancaleone has joined #postfix[19:50:15] <gimpy2938> patdk-wk: Doesn't sound simplistic and if LDAP and postini are not up to date, legit mail for new lists would be rejected.[19:50:55] <patdk-wk> only ldap would have to be up to day[19:50:56] <patdk-wk> date[19:51:04] <patdk-wk> I know in my mailman setup[19:51:15] <patdk-wk> I have hooks on the create list function that does the insert for me[19:51:32] <gimpy2938> patdk-wk: It would work, I know that, I just see complications if I pushed for this method. Also, nothing about LDAP I would call 'simplistic'.[19:51:59] <patdk-wk> heh? ldap is easy, much easier than a database[19:52:13] <patdk-wk> since ldap is just a lookup tree[19:52:23] <gimpy2938> patdk-wk: Can't we just agree that neither are fun to work with?[19:53:09] <patdk-wk> dunno, beenworking with it for so long, I don't see it as hard, or annoying[19:53:19] *** wame has quit IRC[20:08:37] *** wame has joined #postfix[20:25:28] *** kenyon has quit IRC[20:27:17] *** dmallor has left #postfix[20:31:09] *** Cain has quit IRC[20:37:24] *** Cain has joined #postfix[20:42:31] *** syborg has joined #postfix[20:56:04] *** cpm has quit IRC[20:56:38] *** Transformer has joined #postfix[20:57:03] *** Transformer has quit IRC[20:57:18] *** hever has quit IRC[20:58:18] *** kenyon has joined #postfix[20:59:13] *** mitchlovin has quit IRC[21:00:10] *** mitchlovin has joined #postfix[21:00:17] *** hever has joined #postfix[21:01:56] *** hever has quit IRC[21:02:23] *** hever has joined #postfix[21:15:07] <seekwill> Barracuda sucks[21:15:21] *** Wolfsherz has joined #postfix[21:15:55] *** hever has quit IRC[21:20:18] *** roe has joined #postfix[21:20:50] <roe> Is there an actual technical reason why MUAs generally use the sending MUA's time stamp when reporting when a message was sent?[21:21:10] <roe> of all of the time stamps available that is probably the least reliable[21:24:41] <syborg> Probably no technical reason but more of a usability thing I suppose. "Look my computer say 3:00 but my email says it was sent at 2:50" *shrug*[21:25:13] <seekwill> Which MUA?[21:25:23] <seekwill> Outlook and Mail.app seems to work just fine[21:25:48] <roe> how are you defining 'work fine'?[21:25:56] <roe> nothing is broken perse[21:26:17] <roe> per-se?[21:27:06] *** pj has joined #postfix[21:36:37] *** mu574n9 has joined #postfix[21:41:15] *** ced117 has quit IRC[21:45:50] *** codeshah has joined #postfix[21:46:38] *** Wolfsherz has quit IRC[21:51:43] *** signpost has joined #postfix[21:52:02] <signpost> hi there, is there a way to get postfix to log the relay command? I'm trying to debug my use of amazon ses.[21:56:03] *** e-anima has quit IRC[21:59:01] *** abrotman has joined #postfix[21:59:25] <abrotman> I know there's a way, but I cannot remember. How do you use a .forward to still do local delivery, and also to a remote mailbox[21:59:33] <abrotman> user\, user@domain ?[22:00:29] <roe> yes[22:00:57] <abrotman> no quotes or anything?[22:01:19] <abrotman> i didn't want to just do it and then have all the email end up at the bottom of the sea[22:01:47] <abrotman> Thank you.[22:06:05] *** e-anima has joined #postfix[22:09:28] <abrotman> it was \user, user@domain[22:11:33] <abrotman> Thanks again[22:12:16] *** abrotman has quit IRC[22:29:36] <signpost> anybody know how I can log my relay commands?[22:30:26] <signpost> I just gave it like five v's; lets see what happens[22:31:06] *** s0ber has quit IRC[22:32:35] <seekwill> fire fire fire[22:32:58] *** s0ber has joined #postfix[22:34:54] *** daguz has joined #postfix[22:35:50] *** marchelly has joined #postfix[22:51:42] *** Gatto has joined #postfix[22:59:08] <Corey> seekwill: Ping.[22:59:20] <seekwill> Corey: poooooooooo ng.[23:03:32] <signpost> I have a few old crappy projects on this server sending mail from mailer daemon[23:03:37] <signpost> can I set the default send from address somehow?[23:03:51] <signpost> so it comes from webmaster@server if a From: isn't specified?[23:04:05] <signpost> I really don't want to spend my day rewriting someone else's PHP[23:04:18] *** gerhard7 has quit IRC[23:05:02] <adaptr> seekwill: your ICMP protocol is broken[23:05:14] <seekwill> Stupid Windows[23:05:47] <Aprogas> Do ICMP specs even mention "ping" or just "echo request" ?[23:05:53] <adaptr> signpost: in postfix, as it is in sendmail, the default null sender address for DSNs is MAILER-DAEMON. no legitimate mail should ever be sent with this address. it means the original message had no sender.[23:05:57] <thumbs> Corey: and lolcat wondered why I +q'd him in #mysql ...[23:06:18] *** TomHome has joined #postfix[23:07:47] <signpost> adaptr: yep, that I know[23:08:06] <signpost> I have a few clients crappy php sites on here, and they use the mail function throughout without specifying one[23:08:06] <Corey> thumbs: Did he?[23:08:20] <adaptr> signpost: so REJECT them[23:08:36] <signpost> not really an option[23:08:42] <adaptr> it's the only real option[23:08:49] <signpost> k[23:08:54] <thumbs> Corey: no, wait, he said he was probably +q because I don't like him.[23:09:01] <adaptr> tell them to send mail using a proper sender address they own[23:09:02] <signpost> I'll just use sed on this code and hope for the best[23:09:09] <Corey> thumbs: I don't like him either. :-)[23:09:10] <signpost> eh they're not going to do that[23:09:15] <signpost> restaurants don't staff programmers[23:09:32] <adaptr> "them" being whoever is responsible for the PHP code, obviously.[23:09:33] <signpost> and they each have their own awful interface for sending newsletters or what have you[23:09:57] <signpost> yeah, in the time that'd take to track down I could just craft some sed-fu[23:10:22] <adaptr> sigh... okay, so you tell the misbehaving clients that whoever wrote the original website was an idiot and he did it wrong.[23:10:35] <signpost> ah yes, I have. I've rolled up the newspaper good[23:10:49] <signpost> we're hosting these old sites and rewriting them in django one after the other[23:10:52] <adaptr> signpost: please do not argue against the solution. it's not MY problem[23:11:00] <signpost> pardon?[23:11:05] <signpost> didn't think I did[23:11:12] <adaptr> you can re-read what I said if it was unclear[23:11:22] <adaptr> you're bitching. go bitch to the idiots making you work[23:11:38] <adaptr> although I'd just send them a nice invoice for the time it costs[23:11:50] <signpost> I'm not bitching at all. Calm down.[23:11:55] <adaptr> no clue why you're complaining that others screwed up - means work for you[23:12:19] <signpost> I was seeing if there was a config key for changing MAILER-DAEMON to something else[23:12:21] <adaptr> signpost: do not tell me to calm down.[23:12:23] <signpost> and thank you for your input[23:12:28] <signpost> wtf is going on.[23:12:29] <signpost> lol[23:12:31] <adaptr> yes, there is. and you don't want to do that[23:12:49] <adaptr> the mere notion informs me you probably shouldn't run a mail server[23:12:49] <signpost> who's the op in here, you?[23:13:31] * rob0 points at Corey[23:13:42] <signpost> Corey: what's going on here? Did I say something rude?[23:13:50] <adaptr> !empty_address_recipient[23:13:50] <knoba> adaptr: "empty_address_recipient" : a configuration parameter in the main.cf: The recipient of mail addressed to the null address. Postfix does not accept such addresses in SMTP commands, but they may still be created locally as the result of configuration or software error.[23:13:54] <adaptr> signpost: have fun[23:14:08] *** ujjain has joined #postfix[23:14:18] * Corey points at roe[23:14:20] <Corey> rob0 even[23:14:35] <adaptr> of course, there was zero to no investigation (not setting a sender address in mail(1) is imposisble; one is always set)[23:14:40] <ujjain> Hello. Is it possible to use Postfix for relaying? I want to have a list of domains with destination IP's. What is this feature called?[23:14:56] <adaptr> !tell ujjain transport_maps[23:14:56] <knoba> ujjain: "transport_maps" : a configuration parameter in the main.cf: Optional lookup tables with mappings from recipient address to (message delivery transport, next-hop destination). See transport(5) for details.[23:14:58] <signpost> ujjain: watch out. they'll yell at you because postfix isn't your expertise[23:15:01] * signpost goes back to writing python[23:15:17] <adaptr> signpost: leave, yes.[23:15:39] <rob0> Who should I kick?[23:15:50] <signpost> rob0: I mean, I don't see myself saying anything rude in the backscroll[23:15:50] *** gremset_ has joined #postfix[23:15:55] <signpost> unless adaptr likes php or something[23:16:16] <adaptr> signpost: are you done ?[23:16:27] <signpost> rob0: why's this guy yelling at me?[23:17:12] *** gremset has quit IRC[23:17:12] <rob0> heh, I don't know rude nor yelling. Adaptr is as cuddly as a cactus. On his GOOD days. :)[23:17:34] <rob0> but, he's usually pretty good with Postfixing.[23:18:05] <signpost> his solution amounts to one of: call yourself an idiot, call your clients idiots, or call their old programmer an idiot[23:18:12] <signpost> not really called for.[23:18:19] <signpost> though all may be true :)[23:18:31] <rob0> scrolling up, I doubt that changing MAILER_DAEMON would help anything[23:19:07] <signpost> ok[23:21:37] <adaptr> it breaks several other things though[23:21:44] <adaptr> as documented[23:21:47] *** gremset_ has quit IRC[23:22:07] *** gremset has joined #postfix[23:23:43] <signpost> adaptr: good to know[23:25:33] *** gremset has quit IRC[23:26:09] *** gremset has joined #postfix[23:29:00] <ujjain> Hi, what is qq trouble in home directory?[23:29:52] <adaptr> !idfma[23:29:52] <knoba> adaptr: "idfma" : Insufficient Data For Meaningful Answer (perhaps look at the /topic)[23:30:26] <ujjain> adaptr: ok, give me 1min, it might not be a postfix issue[23:31:15] <Aprogas> QQ is a smily indicating teary eyes[23:31:36] <ujjain> It seems related to greylisting from the destination server.[23:32:22] <ujjain> again same error. it automatically tried resending, qq trouble is message from destination[23:32:54] <Aprogas> Maybe you should show us on a pastebin what you are seeing.[23:33:26] <adaptr> we don't care about gheylisting[23:33:54] <ujjain> It arrived! Sorry, I was falsely thinking things were not alright, because of the error message.[23:34:00] <ujjain> Next time I will definitely pastebin![23:34:03] <roe> adaptr: how's your day going to so far?[23:34:12] <adaptr> it's over[23:34:34] <roe> sounds like a reason to celebrate[23:35:04] <adaptr> I am near-sick, my throat is killing me, and I should sleep(1)[23:35:21] *** brancaleone has quit IRC[23:36:45] <Aprogas> Humm like a buddhist monk to vibrate and clear your slimes.[23:37:47] <adaptr> no slime[23:37:56] <adaptr> left gland is blocked or something[23:38:27] <roe> sounds like you have a problem with your queue[23:39:00] *** Lenhix has joined #postfix[23:39:33] <adaptr> I'm trying to flush it but no luck so far; it's probably yahoo - it's always fucking yahoo[23:40:16] *** murtada has joined #postfix[23:40:57] *** clouseau has quit IRC[23:42:24] *** codeshah has quit IRC[23:46:36] *** Southron has quit IRC[23:49:01] *** uqlev has joined #postfix[23:49:30] *** basho__ has quit IRC[23:50:05] *** signpost has quit IRC[23:50:57] *** Section1 has quit IRC[23:56:16] <dscastro> hi..[23:56:36] <dscastro> anyone can tell me if i able to put files directly in queue?[23:57:06] <adaptr> !tell dscastro postdrop[23:57:06] <knoba> adaptr: Error: No factoid matches that key.[23:57:11] <adaptr> !tell dscastro sendmail[23:57:11] <knoba> dscastro: "sendmail" : a pretty cryptic MTA that was famous in the ancient days of UNIX and still runs on a lot of mail servers. Don't confuse it with the "sendmail" command that is offered by Postfix to send emails (for compatibility reasons).[23:57:16] <adaptr> pfft[23:57:21] <adaptr> knoba, you're useless today[23:57:39] <dscastro> adaptr, so.. it is impossible to put directly?[23:57:43] <tharkun> adaptr: need a hot iron to straighten your ideas?[23:57:51] <adaptr> dscastro: both can queue files, but postdrop requires postfix's queue format, so it's unlikely to be useful for you[23:58:12] <adaptr> dscastro: do not touch the postfix queues directly.[23:58:22] <tharkun> !tell dscastro goal[23:58:22] <knoba> dscastro: "goal" : describe your goal, not what you think the solution is[23:58:35] <adaptr> tharkun: I don't want to know his goal! wagging is much more fun[23:58:36] <dscastro> i have an emailmarketing software[23:58:44] <dscastro> and it put emails on the directory[23:58:48] <roe> aka spam[23:59:01] <dscastro> i must read it and put in postfix queue[23:59:07] <adaptr> it puts the lotion in the basket eh ?[23:59:13] * roe hands adaptr the hose[23:59:15] <adaptr> dscastro: so use sendmail(1)[23:59:30] <adaptr> !tell dscastro welcome[23:59:30] <knoba> dscastro: "welcome" : welcome to #postfix! if you're joining for the first time, or are new to irc, the first thing you'll want to do is read the channel topic (/topic). it includes crucial instructions on how to effectively ask for help here, and what data you should include with your questions. the degree of success you'll have is directly related to how effectively you're able to follow those guidelines.[23:59:43] *** e-anima has quit IRC