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[00:03:31] <stockholm> hi
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[00:04:17] <stockholm> i want to forward all mail for a given domain to a single google mail address
[00:04:37] <stockholm> i did that by introducing /etc/postfix/virtual
[00:04:44] <stockholm> with a catch all adress:
[00:04:58] <rob0> ewww. Bad idea. You will be flagged as a spammer.
[00:05:05] <stockholm> @thisdomain.com some at googlemail dot com
[00:05:06] <rob0> !catchall
[00:05:06] <knoba> rob0: "catchall" : Sending all emails for non-existing users in domain to a special account. See man 5 virtual for the @domain syntax, which applies in virtual_*_maps and relay_recipient_maps. For local(8) delivery, unset local_recipient_maps and see luser_relay. WARNING: catchalls are rarely a good idea. Spammers will abuse them.
[00:05:29] <stockholm> i konw, i will tighen the setup later on.
[00:05:35] <stockholm> for now, i want to get something up
[00:05:56] <Aprogas> Why do you want a catchall?
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[00:06:15] <stockholm> because i dont know yet what adresses will receive mail
[00:06:28] <stockholm> the customer has not decided on adresses yet
[00:06:54] <stockholm> but now i get this error in the logs:
[00:07:50] <stockholm> postfix/smtpd[21311]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from blub...: 550 5.1.1 <hallo at blah dot ....>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual alias table;
[00:07:56] <stockholm> why is that so?
[00:08:07] <stockholm> how do i fix that?
[00:08:09] <Aprogas> !have2mung
[00:08:09] <knoba> Aprogas: "have2mung" : if you absolutely have to mung details, such as anonymizing domains, email and IP addresses etc., try to do so in a minimal, consistent and meaningful way. Keep in mind that this is our first look at your particular configuration and or log details and we do not have the benefit you posses about your existing configuration.
[00:08:31] <jimpop> stockholm: use a .forward file with somethign like "|/usr/sbin/sendmai user at gmail dot tld"
[00:09:21] <Aprogas> stockholm: It becomes hard for us to offer consistent support if we only have vague domains to go on.
[00:09:30] <Aprogas> jimpop: That only works for local UNIX users.
[00:09:39] <stockholm> oh, sure...
[00:09:47] <stockholm> May 16 23:48:59 Debian-40-etch-64-LAMP postfix/smtpd[21311]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from johannes.schuldei.org[178.63.218.15]: 550 5.1.1 <hallo at wolfgang-tonne dot com>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual alias table; from=<andreas at schuldei dot org> to=<hallo at wolfgang-tonne dot com> proto=ESMTP helo=<johannes.schuldei.org>
[00:10:15] <jimpop> Aprogas: yep, so create a local unix user, fwd the email to that user, have that user's .forward file fwd to gmail.  Piece of cake
[00:10:40] <Aprogas> Also pastebin your postconf -n, virtual file, postmap -q output demonstrating it works, etc.
[00:10:44] <Aprogas> jimpop: How is that better than a virtual alias?
[00:11:12] <Aprogas> jimpop: Are you being ironic?
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[00:11:29] <stockholm> http://paste.debian.net/117149/
[00:11:38] <jimpop> Aprogas: no, simplistic.  irony rarely works well here. ;-)
[00:11:40] <stockholm> the virtual file is as simple as
[00:11:58] <stockholm> cat virtual
[00:11:58] <stockholm> @wolfgang-tonne.de wolfgangtonne at googlemail dot com
[00:12:07] <Aprogas> jimpop: Piping to sendmail in a .forward is hardly simplistic.
[00:12:14] <Aprogas> wolfgang-tonne.de != wolfgang-tonne.com
[00:12:57] <jimpop> Aprogas: but it works well, and is easier to explain that virtual concepts to ppl who hardly understand postfix.
[00:13:03] <jimpop> *than
[00:13:16] <stockholm> Aprogas: yes, i had noticed that once i had pasted it
[00:13:23] <Aprogas> jimpop: Are you aware that .forward files can contain just an email-address and it will be forwarded to that? No need to pipe to sendmail
[00:13:23] <stockholm> fixed it, still the same!
[00:13:31] <Aprogas> stockholm: Did you rehash?
[00:13:35] <stockholm> no
[00:14:00] <stockholm> right, now it works
[00:14:02] <jimpop> Aprogas: forwarding via virtual would still have the same problems as forwarding via an alias, no?
[00:14:26] <Aprogas> jimpop: Also it is simpler to create a virtual alias, than it is to create a local UNIX user who will solely have a .forward file
[00:14:49] <jimpop> Aprogas: possibly.  depends on the setup/system/person
[00:15:50] <jimpop> Aprogas: forwarding via virtual would still have the same problems as forwarding via an alias, no?
[00:16:05] <Aprogas> Yes.
[00:16:20] <Aprogas> Catchall alias will be problematic no matter how you implement it.
[00:16:24] <jimpop> ok, so in that regard the .forward+pipe trick works
[00:16:36] <Aprogas> Why pipe? What's the added benefit of piping to sendmail?
[00:16:41] <jimpop> without the problems that virtual and aliases have
[00:16:54] <jimpop> Aprogas: the email is re-sent, not forwarded
[00:16:55] <Aprogas> .forward is just another form of alias
[00:17:04] <jimpop> not w/ the pipe action
[00:17:18] <Aprogas> Are you talking about SPF and lack of SRS ?
[00:17:18] <jimpop> try it out sometime
[00:17:34] <jimpop> yes
[00:17:51] <Aprogas> Okay, that was not obvious to me at first.
[00:18:35] <jimpop> i am presuming that's why stockholm's fwd'ed emails were being flagged as spam by gmail (a common situation)
[00:19:30] <Aprogas> If you forward a catchall, you will catch lots of spam and forward it; I also believe randomized addresses trigger suspicion from advanced spamfilters.
[00:21:34] <jimpop> Aprogas: that's still a risk (if blindly fwd'ing everything), but still better than an aliased/virtualized forward.
[00:22:44] <Aprogas> What about double-bounces? Won't they go back to the local UNIX user doing the resending, only to be forwarded again to the bounce-originator?
[00:22:57] <Aprogas> I messed up that sentence.
[00:23:12] <Aprogas> I meant that bounces go back to that addresses and get forwarded again, creating a double-bounce.
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[00:25:33] <jimpop> Aprogas: postfix will eventually handle that.  BUT, since the OP was asking about gmail... bounces won't be a problem if the right gmail address is used.
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[00:40:39] <seekwill> bounce loop!
[00:42:16] <Aprogas> Sounds like a breakfast cereal. Bouncy loops.
[00:42:29] <Aprogas> Encourages children to play with their food and make a mess.
[00:42:37] <Aprogas> There's probably not a big market for it.
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[01:17:44] <standon> sigh
[01:17:46] <standon> jason hirsh is another one.
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[01:31:01] <k-man> is it postfix's job to process .forward files?
[01:33:02] <koollman> k-man: the 'local' delivery agent of postfix checks .forward files. if it's not used, you will need something else to check them
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[01:33:56] <k-man> koollman, yeah, .forward is working, but I'm just trying to understand the syntax of it
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[01:34:41] <k-man> for some reason, the .forward in question, starts with \ausername
[01:34:47] <k-man> ie  \jason
[01:34:52] <k-man> what does the \ mean?
[01:35:07] <jimpop> k-man: deliver locally
[01:35:55] <k-man> ah, so if I want to add an email address to forward to, I can just add , someone at somehost dot com.au
[01:36:17] <koollman> yes. one address per line
[01:36:35] <jimpop> so something like:  \jimpop, "|/usr/sbin/sendmail jimpop at domain dot tld" would keep a local copy and re-send a second copy to the addr
[01:36:59] <koollman> (abusing .forward is usually a bad, bad thing ;) )
[01:37:25] <k-man> thank you
[01:37:41] <k-man> not abusing it - just adding an email address I want to forward it to
[01:39:29] <k-man> thanks for your help
[01:41:51] <seekwill> Why do people forward mail?
[01:42:00] <seekwill> (I'm looking for a list of use cases)
[01:42:53] <jimpop> seekwill: log(check|watch) off boxes, monitoring script output, cron output
[01:44:13] <seekwill> That all sounds like something that can be set to the correct email address anyways, ie ops@...
[01:44:24] <seekwill> Especially cron output
[01:44:34] <koollman> much easier to define an alias or forward for root :)
[01:44:49] <seekwill> It's a one liner in cron!
[01:45:04] <koollman> seekwill: not when you have many programs that default to cron
[01:45:08] <koollman> err, to root
[01:45:13] <jimpop> seekwill: too many tweaks, in too many places.  most of those default to the running account, so just fwd that (root)
[01:45:27] <koollman> typical symptom is a growing /var/mail/root file or some equivalent ;)
[01:45:53] <jimpop> or worse, lack of attention to what a system is telling you ;-)
[01:46:00] <seekwill> heh
[01:46:04] <koollman> also, last time I used a .forward I was in school. and it redirected (copied, actually) my school mail to my 'real' mailbox (out of school)
[01:46:47] <seekwill> So root can be aliased off... which would be better than a .forward
[01:47:00] <seekwill> So what other reasons for forwarding?
[01:47:19] <jimpop> seekwill: see previous comments on alias vs forward and SPF
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[01:47:50] <seekwill> I already know the issues with that
[01:48:42] <jimpop> oh, it appeared that you were suggesting that root could be aliased off.....
[01:48:50] <koollman> actually ... I still have a .forward on some servers. which redirect to my main mailbox. because some people will use 'mail myuser' on those systems :)
[01:50:21] <seekwill> I'm not really  concerned about SPF. Just how and why people use forwards
[01:50:45] <jimpop> another use case is for small group communication (moderators, admins, ops, etc)
[01:51:39] <koollman> seekwill: well ... most of the cases I think of are 'still very attached to the unix way of things', I suppose ;)
[01:51:55] <seekwill> jimpop: How so?
[01:52:01] <seekwill> koollman: That's my feeling as well
[01:52:26] <koollman> a .forward on an 'sysops' account is a decent poor man mailing list ;)
[01:52:33] <seekwill> ah
[01:52:47] <jimpop> yep
[01:52:52] <seekwill> But I'd put that all as an alias
[01:53:17] <jimpop> and then you would have SPF problems....
[01:53:35] <seekwill> And you wouldn't with .forward?
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[01:53:54] <jimpop> seekwill: correct.  see prev conv about that ;-)
[01:55:33] <seekwill> oh...
[01:55:51] <seekwill> The .forward would change the from...
[01:56:01] <jimpop> yep
[01:56:08] <jimpop> and the origin
[01:56:25] <jimpop> it's not a forward at that point, it's a new email
[01:56:39] <jimpop> so to speak.
[01:56:46] <seekwill> It's a new email message, with the contents of the original message
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[01:56:58] <seekwill> Like if I hit fwd in my MUA.. .heh
[01:57:04] <seekwill> See... I never use .forward. learn something new
[01:57:05] <jimpop> yep
[01:57:14] <seekwill> But then all your email would be coming from the same place. How lame!
[01:57:26] <jimpop> not all .forward, just if you pipe it back thru sendmail
[01:57:49] <seekwill> oh
[01:57:50] <jimpop> seekwill: depends on the mail.
[01:57:51] <koollman> oh, and of course, a .forward can contain all kind of useful things like pipes to some other process. handy when you need to make some mail-handling scripts
[01:58:26] <jimpop> if you have a user/.forward setup as a simple list, then the reply-to is the list
[01:58:27] <seekwill> What kind of mail handling scripts?
[01:58:49] <seekwill> I generally use a mailing list manager for that :P
[01:59:02] <jimpop> seekwill: but if it's only for 2 admins/ops
[01:59:12] <seekwill> It's not hard
[01:59:25] <seekwill> And a whole lot of other useful benefits
[01:59:35] <seekwill> (like archiving, unsubsribes)
[01:59:40] <jimpop> and if the system you are monitoring is a mailing list, then you don't want your notifications dependent on what you are monitoring....
[02:00:05] <seekwill> I generally use 3rdparty type apps for monitoring
[02:00:18] <jimpop> and who do you notify about problems?
[02:00:20] <seekwill> (Nagios, Circonus, etc.)
[02:00:43] <seekwill> It's all done on separate systems
[02:01:04] <jimpop> seekwill: grep "Jim" /etc/init.d/nagios    ;-)
[02:01:19] <koollman> seekwill: I have a script that receives mail from various apps, and decide if it's important enough or common enough, then notify me if needed. another one I used before was almost like a remote shell via mail. a bit dangerous but quite funny to use :)
[02:04:07] <seekwill> Hmm... well, I generally want all the emails. Then I have rules on the mailstore that take action. I want all the emails to come in to me, but automagically sent to a folder unless it's urgent
[02:04:36] <seekwill> jimpop: oooh
[02:04:44] <seekwill> jimpop: Now I have someone to spam!
[02:04:56] <koollman> sure. it's just a different way of organizing it. (I wouldn't receive the mails in the first place, if those apps were easier to monitor differently :/ )
[02:05:07] <seekwill> jimpop: How did you get access to my server?!?!?!
[02:05:12] <jimpop> ;-)
[02:06:28] <seekwill> Take Nagios for example, our server sends an email to nagios@. All the emails are filed to an Ops folder, and the Criticals are also sent to the inbox, which then my Blackberry will start yelling at me
[02:06:31] <jimpop> seekwill: i haven't contributed anything to nagios since then, and back then it was netsaint
[02:06:54] <koollman> seekwill: what if the mail system fails ?
[02:07:02] <seekwill> Our mail system doesn't fail :)
[02:07:09] <koollman> ah. of course. simple fix ;)
[02:07:17] <seekwill> And which mail system?
[02:07:27] <seekwill> If the mail system did fail, I have other things to worry about...
[02:07:41] <seekwill> My mail is hosted in the cloud!!! it never fails!!!1
[02:07:53] <jimpop> !cloud
[02:07:53] <knoba> jimpop: Error: "cloud" is not a valid command.
[02:07:57] <jimpop> lol
[02:08:00] <koollman> my nagios sends mail both to various mailboxes, and to the relevant blackberry, and the whole thing is remotely monitored
[02:08:43] <seekwill> And you use .forward for that?
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[02:09:55] <koollman> yes. for the 'relevant blackberry' part. the mail are retrieved from a db, and put in a .forward file. I don't want to auto-edit the /etc/aliases. (and the script fails nicely, if there's no mail, the .forward stay the way it was before)
[02:10:17] <koollman> (the db contains the 'on-call' planning)
[02:11:59] <seekwill> We have our on-call stuff sent to a call center, that way it's a live person that has to find and wake up people :)
[02:13:03] <koollman> ah, well, that's more expensive :)
[02:13:07] <seekwill> Hmm... backscatter seems to be on the rise...
[02:13:23] <seekwill> koollman: I wish it didn't have to be
[02:14:16] <koollman> well, the 'find and wake up people' could be automated
[02:14:35] <seekwill> haha
[02:15:11] <seekwill> When it's automated, not only does someone have to pick it up, they have to do a math problem
[02:15:19] <seekwill> Or answer a multiple choice question
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[02:15:34] <seekwill> That way you know they're not drunk or halfasleep
[02:15:38] <koollman> well ... how do the live person wakes people ?
[02:15:48] <seekwill> I don't know. I'm not on the rotation
[02:16:02] <seekwill> I think a live person actually talks to the engineer
[02:16:19] <koollman> I'm pretty sure it ends with 'ok I will handle that' :)
[02:16:32] <seekwill> yeah
[02:17:44] <koollman> so it can be automated. even very nicely. svox has released it's source code recently. (or you could have a 'press 123 to handle, hang-up if you're drunk', of course ;) )
[02:18:03] <seekwill> No... I think my math problem is better
[02:18:11] <seekwill> Randomly generated quiz every time
[02:18:44] <seekwill> "What is 42 times 482? Please answer in the next 5 seconds"
[02:18:52] <koollman> :)
[02:19:54] <koollman> reverse captcha. only computers can answer that ;)
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[02:52:42] <tmus> Hi guys... Is there a built-in way in postfix to "trace" the mail-route and validate the original originating IP of the message? My spam filter (using postscreen with  rbls and such) seems to work fine, but my backup MX is not quite as strict and so relays a few spams to me that is not caught by my filter... Suggestions?
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[03:10:04] <lunaphyte> sure.  don't use backup mxes.  it's not 1994 any more.
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[03:11:04] <ampletime> ok guys what's the deal with ecelrity!! its replacing postfix in my company.. i'm pretty upset
[03:12:14] <tmus> lunaphyte, well... servers are still down for maintenance once in a while?
[03:13:03] <tmus> lunaphyte, but I agree that will remove the issue (albeit not actually solve it)
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[03:15:21] <lunaphyte> performing maintenance on a mail server shares no empirical relationship with the concept of a backup mx.
[03:15:52] <ampletime> there is no information on the internet about this mysterious mail server
[03:15:55] <jimpop> ampletime: never heard of it b4 now.  seems like a whole lot of marketing and not much on specs
[03:15:58] <lunaphyte> given the choice, why introduce an issue that would need solving?
[03:16:09] <ampletime> jimpop, its a omniti product but its no on their site
[03:16:17] <jimpop> ampletime: yep
[03:16:32] <ampletime> jimpop, we were told facebook also uses it
[03:16:39] <ampletime> there's absolutely nothing on it out there
[03:16:44] <ampletime> something i can read
[03:16:47] <jimpop> ampletime: lots of marketing slicks/sites about it.  not details on how secure/robust it is
[03:17:00] <ampletime> seems like probably ripped off qmail or postfix source code to make a secretive mystery product
[03:17:07] <jimpop> could be
[03:17:33] <ampletime> jimpop, they said "it scaled better to cloud platforms" LOL
[03:17:34] <jimpop> i envision it being like barracudda is to spamassassin
[03:17:56] <jimpop> ampletime: marketing is all the rage these days
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[03:18:52] <jimpop> even a shit product can sell in millions to corp IT depts ;-)
[03:19:24] <jimpop> tech blogs are littered with horror stories of over-marketed products
[03:19:29] <ampletime> yes I agree
[03:19:38] <jimpop> ampletime: don't be afraid to ask for details/data
[03:19:50] <jimpop> who knows, maybe they do have a good product
[03:19:53] <ampletime> jimpop, i will and i will also share it here
[03:19:55] <tmus> lunaphyte, i guess i understand your point - but the backup mx allows me to do maintenance (for long hours) without annoying my clients (sending mail my way) with NDR's from the MTA and such...
[03:20:40] <jimpop> tmus: start thinking of your backup mx as a cold standby, and shut it down between needs
[03:20:45] <ampletime> so far i've just been told its scales really well to processing huge amounts of emails.. and that's all i know.. i'll find out more this week
[03:23:01] <jimpop> looking fwd to learning more about it
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[03:23:42] <jimpop> if they're a true web2.0 company, i should be expecting a marketing email from them in 3. 2. 1. ...
[03:23:45] <jimpop> ;-)
[03:26:30] <tmus> jimpop, lunaphyte, interesting - removing my MX would certainly rid me of my problems...
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[03:42:23] <tmus> jimpop, lunaphyte, found a few reasonable points in this article http://www.brassy.net/2006/aug/backup_mxs_are_dangerous_and_pointless and I'm going to take your advice - Thanks so much for your input...
[03:42:54] <thumbs> 2006?
[03:43:41] <tmus> thumbs, well... the points still apply... guess i've just gotten around to it until now...
[03:43:46] <thumbs> heh
[03:43:47] <tmus> ;-)
[03:43:54] <thumbs> tmus: it was obsolete in 2006, yes.
[03:44:54] <tmus> thumbs, backup mx'es?
[03:45:03] <tmus> or the article...?
[03:45:33] <thumbs> tmus: backup mxes.
[03:46:04] <tmus> thumbs, yeah - guess so... time to wake up and smell the coffee ;-)
[03:46:47] <tmus> so consider me a convert... i'll be the one with the "no backup mx" banner at the mall tomorow... :-P
[03:48:28] <jimpop> tmus: post a pic to the mailing list in order to encourage others to do the same. ;-)
[03:48:50] <tmus> jimpop, :-D
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[03:51:54] <thumbs> wait, I was gonna make a banner for "no seekwill allowed:
[03:52:14] <lunaphyte> hmm.  not loading for me
[03:52:54] <tmus> thumbs, nice ;-)
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[04:06:17] <lunaphyte> the backup mx related points are salient.  unfortunately, the author doesn't have a clue about dns.
[04:07:26] <lunaphyte> [which wouldn't be a crime had he not called out to the topic in a technical manner]
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[04:09:10] <lunaphyte> i think the backup mx stuff these days is typically not much more than ignorance as to the difference between simply having multiple mail servers and having an *actual* backup mx.
[04:16:28] <tmus> Didn't really read the dns stuff too thoroughly - (I have a good idea about DNS) and focused on the backup mx tings...
[04:17:27] <lunaphyte> the references to "secondary" and "tertiary" betray him
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[04:25:14] <tmus> I believe his point is valid enough, even though the details is not spot on... i think he simply means that the internet used to be friendlier... tertiary DNS might refer to "Company A" using "Company B"'s dns server for secondary and "Company C"'s for tertiary (ie the resolvers nameserver order - not as a slave^2 thing) :-)
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[04:27:36] <lunaphyte> if he's referring to caching nameservers, the terminology would be more palatable [albeit still technically wrong] - but if he's referring to authoritative dns [as impressed upon me], it's just wrong.
[04:30:33] <Corey> Ooh, what was the DNS mistake?
[04:31:03] <jimpop> DNS is never the mistake, see #bind
[04:31:10] <jimpop> ;-)
[04:31:11] <tmus> ;-)
[04:31:17] <Corey> jimpop: nsd for the win.
[04:31:23] <jimpop> ha!
[04:31:34] <Corey> FOr a resolver, I do love unbound.
[04:32:01] <tmus> lunaphyte, sometimes you have to read what people mean, not what they write ;-)
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[04:33:20] <Corey> That article is crap.
[04:33:37] <Corey> You simply need to ensure that the backup MX knows what a valid user looks like.
[04:36:11] <lunaphyte> oh, i know what he meant.  that wasn't the issue.  i'm just picky, and have grown a bit tired of hoping that my guess as to what someone meant is actually right, when they could have either just left it unsaid, or simply said what they meant.
[04:36:18] <lunaphyte> i'm anal like that.
[04:36:37] <thumbs> lunaphyte: don't let adaptr read it.
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[04:39:39] <lunaphyte> yeh
[04:40:15] <lunaphyte> tmus is right though.  the spirit of the article is not lost, and is accurate in that sense.
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[05:06:30] <tmus> See you guys... /me is off...
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[05:17:47] <standon> Corey: unbound is awesome for running a caching-only, local server on MXs.
[05:19:46] <jimpop> standon: unbound.net says it is based on ideas taken from a java prototype. ..... that tells me it is probably poorly designed.
[05:20:54] <rob0> named is pretty easy to set up for that as well, simply delete your named.conf and start it.
[05:22:47] <Tabmow> jimpop: fairly large generalisation
[05:23:07] <jimpop> indeed.  Java sort of does that to people.  ;-)
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[07:14:45] <here4thegear> I need some help troubleshooting smtp 550 issue. here's a brief description of my issue http://paste.linuxassist.net/215640
[07:17:31] <here4thegear> I've updated to include my postconf -n output
[07:27:28] <dragonheart> it could be on a different url
[07:27:30] <dragonheart> !welcome
[07:27:30] <knoba> dragonheart: "welcome" : welcome to #postfix! if you're joining for the first time, or are new to irc, the first thing you'll want to do is read the channel topic (/topic). it includes crucial instructions on how to effectively ask for help here, and what data you should include with your questions. the degree of success you'll have is directly related to how effectively you're able to follow those guidelines.
[07:27:32] <dragonheart> !logs
[07:27:32] <knoba> dragonheart: "logs" : postfix logs to the mail facility of syslog. Something like grep -i `postconf -h syslog_facility` /etc/syslog.conf should tell you where logs are going. also see !no_logs and !have2mung
[07:28:41] <here4thegear> dragonheart: was that for me?
[07:28:50] <dragonheart> yep
[07:30:27] <here4thegear> dragonheart: don't have syslog.conf
[07:31:37] <dragonheart> more specificly find the logs  - /var/log/mail.log  could be syslog-ng or something else. I've no idea what you have because you haven't described it.
[07:32:02] <dragonheart> once you've got your logs read them and if you are still stuck show them to us.
[07:32:15] <here4thegear> ah, you mean, where mail goes to on my server when I get a "bounceback"?
[07:33:43] <dragonheart> i mean when postfix gives a 550 error on its smtp interface it gives a nice sysadmin readable message in syslog. Where syslog puts this is configured on your system. find this file and you'll find the cause of your configuration error
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[07:35:15] <here4thegear> ah, okay... I found it..
[07:35:35] <here4thegear> and there are a crap ton
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[07:37:58] <here4thegear> dragonheart: added one of the output instances here http://paste.linuxassist.net/215642
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[07:41:30] <dragonheart> the mydestination doesn't correspond to the destination address in the email.
[07:42:15] <dragonheart> if you are intending to be sending out the source where the message is sent from isn't within $mynetworks
[07:42:57] <dragonheart> !hotmail
[07:42:58] <knoba> dragonheart: "hotmail" : http://www.circleid.com/posts/hotmail_running_own_smtp/ : See the !SenderID channel factoid too.
[07:43:12] <dragonheart> !aol
[07:43:12] <knoba> dragonheart: Error: "aol" is not a valid command.
[07:43:56] <dragonheart> ah - you are being rejected by the remote end.
[07:44:40] <dragonheart> you'll need to comply with whatever expectations the remote end is placing on your mail server
[07:47:22] <here4thegear> dragonheart: I'm thinking a possible reverse issue? Not sure. these are specific domains that are kicking me out. I will try figuring out how to add the domain to mynetworks (new to setting up mail)
[07:47:56] <dragonheart> fixing reverse dns is brobably the better stat
[07:48:24] <dragonheart> adding to mynetworks would only be a problem if your mail server was rejecting the message
[07:48:42] <here4thegear> but, if it's sending localhost as my hostname that can't be good.
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[07:51:44] <here4thegear> although, interesting /etc/mailname does have the right domain name grr..
[07:52:23] <dragonheart> thats the spirit
[07:52:34] <dragonheart> perhaps a checklist !basic
[07:52:38] <dragonheart> !basic
[07:52:38] <knoba> dragonheart: "basic" : http://www.postfix.org/BASIC_CONFIGURATION_README.html : a good starting place for Postfix beginners, many common questions are answered here.
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[07:55:40] <here4thegear> dragonheart: awesome, at this should give me something to do tomorrow :-) I need to get some sleep but I bookmarked everything you've sent. Hopefully I'll become a mail genius in no time <grin> Thanks for everything!
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[11:03:29] <dall> my postfix still running......OMG i have configured it well (or postfix is a very good software that run with ugly configuration) :D
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[13:09:05] <unforgiven512> Anyone around at this hour?
[13:11:06] <petemc> its past midday for a large portion of the world
[13:12:01] <unforgiven512> True...
[13:12:17] * unforgiven512 always forgets that the world > USA
[13:13:03] <unforgiven512> Anyhow, I currently have 2 domains: site.com and othersite.com -- they both have their email hosted through Google Apps
[13:13:50] <unforgiven512> How would I set it up, so that email from "COOL PHP WEB APP" on site.com originates from "coolapp at site dot com" and "AWESOME PHP WEB APP" on othersite.com originates from "awesomeapp at othersite dot com" ?
[13:13:56] <unforgiven512> Is that even possible?
[13:16:25] <rob0> Any mail client (and yes, a php web app can be considered a mail client in this context) can set its sender address. If the person who wrote said mail client didn't understand that, be sad. Also:
[13:16:31] <rob0> !nullclient
[13:16:32] <knoba> rob0: "nullclient" : a null client is a computer that can only send mail. it receives no mail from the network, and it does not deliver any mail locally. while postfix can be configured to fill this role, it is often unnecessary overkill, and a much simpler software package is more appropriate. see !nullclient_software for more details.
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[13:34:05] * cpm is sad that rob0 didn't write his mail client.
[13:41:26] <rob0> Be not sad about that, for rob0 != programmer
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[13:42:38] <spiekey> Hello!
[13:43:42] <spiekey> i have a stupid problem after switching from WebServerA (LAMP + Sendmail) to WebserverB (LAMP + Postfix).
[13:44:34] <spiekey> i have php files that send mails, and they have ^M (carriage return) at the end of each line. Since the php files get edited by the Webmaster.
[13:45:13] <spiekey> This produces additional lines when sending mails with postfix
[13:45:34] <spiekey> on the ols system with sendmail its fine. No multiple lines here.
[13:46:27] <spiekey> any idea if its even an MTA issue?
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[14:06:43] <lunaphyte_> spiekey: you should not be running a mail server simply for submitting mail.
[14:06:51] <lunaphyte_> !tell spiekey nullclient
[14:06:51] <knoba> spiekey: "nullclient" : a null client is a computer that can only send mail. it receives no mail from the network, and it does not deliver any mail locally. while postfix can be configured to fill this role, it is often unnecessary overkill, and a much simpler software package is more appropriate. see !nullclient_software for more details.
[14:07:35] <spiekey> lunaphyte_, will nullclientes queue mails, too?
[14:07:47] <spiekey> anyway...i like postfix! I wanna use it!! ;)
[14:07:49] <lunaphyte_> what for?
[14:07:55] <lunaphyte_> that's silly.
[14:08:08] <lunaphyte_> you're doing postfix a disservice by using in the wrong scenario.
[14:08:37] <spiekey> okay, anyway...is this a postfix problem that i am running into or a general one?
[14:12:19] <jumperboy> it's an application problem. fix the mail formatting in your php application.
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[14:13:41] <spiekey> ah! okay!
[14:13:46] <jumperboy> or make sure your files only use UNIX style LF instead of CRLF line endings when installed on the server
[14:14:12] <spiekey> i cant to that, the webdev people are argh! :D
[14:14:40] <jumperboy> in the old days, ftp would take care of this for you, but ftp isn't as common as it once was (for good reason)
[14:15:44] <jumperboy> or you could mask the problem entirely by sending only html mail, but that is evil and won't do anything to protect your headers
[14:16:13] <lunaphyte_> the line endings used in a php script don't necessarily have anything to do with what is submitted to sendmail(8)
[14:17:02] <jumperboy> lunaphyte_: correct, it's not the easiest thing to troubleshoot or fix
[14:18:13] <jumperboy> depends on how the message is created, assembled, and formatted. if the result mixes line endings, weird things can happen
[14:18:20] <spiekey> well, i was told that this also happens when sending it via HTML/PHP POST
[14:18:35] <lunaphyte_> dunno what that has to do with anything.
[14:19:06] <jumperboy> so, your message is composed in a browser, then?
[14:19:08] <lunaphyte_> mail isn't send with html or http post.  form data is submitted.
[14:19:11] <lunaphyte_> *sent
[14:20:53] <jumperboy> fwiw, i rarely see web developers get this right, but plenty of webmail apps prove it's attainable
[14:21:07] <lunaphyte_> s/this/anything/
[14:21:07] <jumperboy> your devs need to do some research
[14:21:20] <jumperboy> lunaphyte_: :)
[14:21:37] <spiekey> well, i was able to reproduce it with those ^M line endings, but it also seems to be the case in contact mail forms..
[14:21:47] <spiekey> this really sucks
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[14:23:37] <lunaphyte_> eh, it's just a classic case of improper input, no guarantee on results.  an *actual* web developer should know better than to assign causality because arbitrary program foo tolerated their ignorance.
[14:24:36] <lunaphyte_> in fact, if i were you, i'd look at it as a great chance to find out if the people you work with are idiots, or have a clue.  that's got great value.
[14:25:32] <spiekey> well, its just simple like this: "It worked on the old server, but doesnt on the new one.."
[14:25:42] <spiekey> which lets me look like an idiot :)
[14:25:48] <lunaphyte_> i don't see how.
[14:26:04] <spiekey> i gotte somehow proof it
[14:26:08] <lunaphyte_> it certainly makes the person making such a statement look like an idiot - that's for sure.
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[14:26:58] <lunaphyte_> prove it?  i thought we covered that.  once these amazing web developers properly format their email such that it conforms to the appropriate rfcs, they will have more proof than they know what to do with.
[14:27:22] <lunaphyte_> if they're so amazing and so omnipotent, then it really should be a trivial task to do this, no?
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[14:29:24] <rob0> sendmail(1) not 8, Wietse uses the BSD style of man section numbering.
[14:29:45] <rob0> sendmail(8) is Sendmail MTA.
[14:30:22] <rob0> Pedantry cheerfully provided here.
[14:30:24] <lunaphyte_> oh, i wondered that as i was typing the number, and tricked myself when i looked and saw (8) on my server.
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[15:25:06] <nor42> i there a way to include a mailing list in the virtual alias map with a syntax similar to the :include: syntax in /etc/alias? :include: does not work
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[15:25:07] <nor42>  unknown user: ":include:/etc/postfix/mailinglist_test
[15:25:49] <danlii> I have enabled masquerading with masquerade_domains = $mydomain and masquerade_classes = envelope_sender, header_sender, it works, but I wish it could masquerade only outgoing mail, not mail to local users. Is this possible?
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[15:29:54] <Jaac> !debug
[15:29:54] <knoba> Jaac: "debug" : http://www.postfix.org/DEBUG_README.html : a good starting point for how to deal with problems and to report information to those who might help. Post your information in a pastebin such as http://pastebin.ca/ or http://dpaste.com/
[15:34:02] <nor42> has anyone an idea?
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[15:58:27] <danlii> My mail server bounced a lot of mail last night, due to a NFS problem the users home directories with their .procmailrc couldn't be read. Apparently, the server gave an error 550 instead of a 450, causing most mails not to be delivered at all. Could this be configured differently?
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[16:00:01] <nor42> is there a way to include a mailing list in the virtual alias map with a syntax similar to the :include: syntax in /etc/alias? :include: does not work
[16:00:01] <nor42> unknown user: ":include:/etc/postfix/mailinglist_test
[16:00:49] <Aprogas> Why not just specify multiple sources in virtual_alias_maps ?
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[16:02:21] <nor42> then the file is getting more and more complex.. that would be an idea, but i thought there must be a different sollution
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[16:03:28] <nor42> /etc/alias allow the include syntax, isn't there sth like this for the virtual alias map?
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[16:25:37] <jumperboy> nor42: use both files: in virtual_alias_maps point the recipient to the entry in aliases that has the include line
[16:26:38] <jumperboy> it's a map, so map it :)
[16:27:00] <nor42> jumperboy: hey, thats a great idea :)
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[16:34:54] <nor42> jumperboy: youre great! this actually works :) thank you!
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[16:39:15] <dubphil1> Hello, I have just see that master.cf is already configured to use the 578 submission port what do I need to setup to make this port available in parrallel with port 25 ?
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[16:39:48] <dubphil1> when I try to connect I have connection refused
[16:40:10] <thumbs> dubphil1: it's 587.
[16:40:55] <dubphil1> ok I understand then ISPConfig have do the error
[16:41:15] <dubphil1> they have opened the 578 submission port
[16:41:36] <dubphil1> I correct this and aknowledge them thanks !
[16:41:57] <dubphil1> tu avais raison c'est bien 578
[16:42:02] <dubphil1> euh 587
[16:42:08] <rob0> ask IANA
[16:42:14] <dubphil1> oups sorry
[16:42:54] <thumbs> dubphil1: what?
[16:43:09] <dubphil1> I miss the good window sorry
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[16:44:30] * lunaphyte_ wonders what "in parallel" means.
[16:44:52] <thumbs> lunaphyte_: it's a literal translation, obviously.
[16:44:59] <thumbs> lunaphyte_: that fellow's French.
[16:50:53] <spiekey> from http://de.php.net/manual/en/function.mail.php: (...)If messages are not received, try using a LF (\n) only. Some poor quality Unix mail transfer agents replace LF by CRLF automatically (which leads to doubling CR if CRLF is used). This should be a last resort, as it does not comply with » RFC 2822. (....)
[16:51:18] <spiekey> i actually do have that problem with doubling CR
[16:51:41] <spiekey> sure this is not a postfix problem?
[16:52:47] <lunaphyte_> am i sure?  yes, i'm sure.
[16:52:50] <jumperboy> spiekey: no, it's *your* problem
[16:52:57] <spiekey> okidoke
[16:53:30] <lunaphyte_> go ahead and provide the data as specified in the channel /topic demonstrating postfix is at fault though.  we're open to criticism, as long as it's backed with data.
[16:53:39] <jumperboy> spiekey: if you fix it, your app will probably start working with any SMTP server, including (ugh) Exchange
[16:54:11] <spiekey> lunaphyte_, sure! I understand that ;)
[16:56:00] <rob0> MSexchange does not have a command-line sendmail equivalent, does it?
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[17:05:25] <jumperboy> rob0: i was thinking along the lines of using the SMTP protocol to send mail, hadn't considered sendmail binary.
[17:05:56] <jumperboy> guess that's another potential source of trouble, depending on what PHP offers
[17:06:51] <rob0> Well, the instant problem is likely covered in the sendmail(1) man page, I bet.
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[17:07:02] * jumperboy never uses sendmail binary in web apps
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[17:11:29] <emper0r> hi, i try to found some doc to make custom mail.log... i have by default set the log to see to: som at mail dot address... i need to see from: where@sender too...
[17:12:05] <emper0r> sorry by my english
[17:12:56] <emper0r> any idea?
[17:14:08] <jumperboy> look for lines containing "from=<" in your maillog
[17:14:26] <jumperboy> and match up the IDs
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[17:15:12] <emper0r> not show from: -> May 16 18:24:01 ftpserver postfix/smtp[8160]: EBC1E102AC4: to=<info.trujillo at foo dot bar.com>, relay=10.25.60.4[10.25.60.4]:25, delay=77, delays=17/0/0.04/60, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 Listo, el mensaje fue guardado <Message-ID: <8099thdgpbcr$288586284133.fjoude at atari8bit-software dot de>>)
[17:15:43] <emper0r> ohhh i c!
[17:15:48] <emper0r> thanxs
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[17:16:39] <emper0r> sorry sorry :) if the log was a dog . can bike me... hehe.. bye
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[17:36:30] <Adita_Virgen> QUIERES VERME? HACE CALRO Y TENGO LA CAMARA CONECTADA
[17:37:30] <rob0> in ingles por favor
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[18:01:44] <_NiC> I'm setting up a mailfilter, if I want all postmaster@* mail to end up at a certain account, what's the best way of doing that? Currently I have a virtual_alias_maps pointing to a hash table, but then it seems I have to list every single domain in that file..
[18:01:51] <_NiC> Should I use a pcre map instead?
[18:06:41] <rob0> So if one of your users wants to send mail to my postmaster address, you're going to intercept that and deliver it to yourself?
[18:11:46] <lunaphyte_> naughty.
[18:12:30] <_NiC> 99,99% of my customers doesn't have it set up
[18:12:40] <_NiC> and they're not really their own postmasters anyway, are they?
[18:13:23] <_NiC> rob0, and no, it's not for outgoing mail, obviously.. only incoming, to the domains I host
[18:13:53] <jumperboy> _NiC: i just put an entry for each domain
[18:14:26] <jumperboy> _NiC: you might be able to automate it somewhat with a Makefile...
[18:15:06] <lunaphyte_> um, '*' is nowhere close to obvious that it's only incoming.  asterisk means *everything*...
[18:15:30] <lunaphyte_> anyway, if you want postmaster mail delivered to some other address, then use an alias.  it's what they're for.
[18:16:00] <_NiC> isn't virtual_alias_maps exactly that.. an alias?
[18:16:01] <jumperboy> _NiC: if you list your domains in a separate virtual_alias_domains file (recommended) it should be trivial to automate
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[18:17:36] <_NiC> I don't have a virtual_alias_domains, but I do have transport_maps and relay_domains
[18:18:38] <_NiC> ah, looks like virtual_alias_domains = $virtual_alias_maps
[18:18:43] <jumperboy> you can use a regular text file for virtual_alias_domains = /etc/postfix/domains
[18:19:07] <jumperboy> in addition to your current virtual_alias_maps setting
[18:19:28] <_NiC> hm, I'm confused.. shouldn't email to addresses not listed in my virtual_alias_maps bounce? That's how I read it. :-\
[18:19:37] <jumperboy> it's better (and safer) to be explicit
[18:19:54] <_NiC> (but it doesn't)
[18:20:19] <_NiC> aha, final destination.. I have none of those.
[18:20:28] <_NiC> everything is relayed to other servers
[18:21:42] <_NiC> hm, guests. Guess I'll need to pick this up later.
[18:21:46] <jumperboy> you still list the addresses in virtual_alias_maps, you just don't let postfix guess by looking at the domains in the addresses. it gets the domains from virtual_alias_domains file
[18:21:48] <_NiC> damn guests.
[18:22:31] <_NiC> yeah, I'll do some testing with that. Thanks. :)
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[18:28:41] <adaptr> thumbs: I read it
[18:30:15] <dall> guys
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[18:30:57] <adaptr> and dalls
[18:31:10] 
[18:31:13] <dall> there?
[18:31:26] <dall> adaptr, Where are you from?
[18:31:36] <dall> what it the average salary of a sys admin?
[18:32:17] <rob0> My point, _NiC, was that you need to think it through. If you grab postmaster@* (any domain), you are going to grab some mail that is not yours.
[18:33:12] <adaptr> dall: whatever you can convince somebody to pay you
[18:34:12] <rob0> Guys and Dolls is one of my favorite movie musicals. Sinatra and Brando, and it was very funny.
[18:34:48] * patdk-wk hopes to make 3000 euro's a year someday
[18:35:54] * lunaphyte_ waits for adaptr's apostrophe smiting hand.
[18:36:05] <rob0> Wow! That would be 1.5 Euro/hour!
[18:36:34] <patdk-wk> :)
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[18:38:05] <dall> ehehe
[18:38:07] <dall> :D
[18:38:38] <dall> customer will find my...nobody can create open relays better then me
[18:38:39] <dall> :D
[18:38:47] <dall> *me
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[18:54:27] <nor42> i ve some issues with the firewall and postfix.. all outbound packages are accepted.. for incoming packages postfix seems to need a rule that accepts packages from src 25.. that there has to be a rule for dst 25 seems clear to me, but why an additional src 25?
[18:54:42] <nor42> this seems to cut a big hole in my firewall..
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[18:55:19] <lunaphyte_> you've got some oddball terminology there, fella...
[18:55:31] <lunaphyte_> "packages"?  perhaps you meant "packets"?
[18:55:44] <nor42> yeah.. packets ;)
[18:56:22] <lunaphyte_> so - now that we've got that straight, why does it "seems to need a rule that accepts packages from src 25"?
[18:57:08] <nor42> postfix cant connect to another smtp-server according to the syslog, if there isnt such an rule
[18:57:22] <lunaphyte_> show us.
[18:57:33] <adaptr> so open up the firewall. let in that relay-y goodness!
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[19:01:38] <patdk-wk> adaptr, my mom says to use a condom first
[19:02:31] <seekwill> Your mom never told me that
[19:02:54] <nor42> May 17 19:04:21 hostname postfix/smtp[22117]: connect to gmail-smtp-in.l.google.com[74.125.79.27]:25: Connection timed out
[19:03:09] <rob0> !port_25_block
[19:03:09] <knoba> rob0: "port_25_block" : Many consumer-grade ISPs (and some which claim to be for business, such as Godaddy) block outbound port 25/tcp traffic to prevent abuse from their network. If your ISP does this, you should see the !basic and !relayhost factoids. Or, upgrade to business-class service (or change ISP if you already had it.)
[19:04:07] <nor42> than it tries to connect do all the google smtp server and finally fails
[19:04:45] <patdk-wk> rob0/knoba answered you
[19:04:58] <patdk-wk> !pats the good bot
[19:04:58] <knoba> patdk-wk: Error: "pats" is not a valid command.
[19:05:15] <rob0> !botsnack
[19:05:15] <knoba> rob0: "botsnack" : Mmmm, tasty
[19:05:19] <nor42> patdk-wk: no he didnt.. that wasnt my question.. scroll up please
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[19:05:50] <rob0> If you're having firewall problems, this is not the proper channel for it.
[19:06:38] <nor42> i just wondered why it needs for incoming packets a rule for src 25..
[19:06:58] <patdk-wk> nor42, dunno, do we look like your firewall?
[19:07:03] <rob0> Sure, you need to allow your MTA to get out on 25/tcp. It also needs to get replies back. Basic networking stuff.
[19:07:04] <seekwill> "it"?
[19:07:51] <nor42> all outbound packets are accepted, inbound packets are accepted on port 25..
[19:08:16] <nor42> seekwill: "it" = postfix
[19:08:58] <nor42> that there has to be a rule for dst 25 seems clear to me, but why an additional src 25?
[19:09:07] <nor42> for incoming packets
[19:09:41] <rob0> Hint: when you connect out to port 25 remotely, you will use a random non-privileged port as YOUR source port.
[19:10:29] <nor42> ah ok.. is there any way to restrict this on a range of ports?
[19:10:30] <rob0> A simple stateful firewall would allow replies back in. Apparently yours does not.
[19:10:46] <rob0> < rob0> If you're having firewall problems, this is not the proper channel for it.
[19:12:16] <nor42> well isnt this a postfix problem? i thought this range of ports is defined by postfix?
[19:12:39] <thumbs> adaptr: sw64-13.3 installed on laptop
[19:13:17] <rob0> The port is chosen by the OS IP stack. No. It is not defined by Postfix.
[19:14:14] <nor42> ah ok thx
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[19:21:50] <thumbs> rob0: upgraded from 12.2 to 13.3
[19:22:38] <rob0> nice
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[19:40:05] <thumbs> rob0: it's night and day. Literally, a 50% speed boost from 12.2
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[19:49:40] <seekwill> thumbs: So 12.2 was slow
[19:50:22] * jimpop wonders which 13.3 version^wproduct
[19:51:00] <thumbs> jimpop: slackware64 13.3
[19:51:14] <jimpop> ahh, ty
[19:51:15] <thumbs> seekwill: well, I had a lot of stuff running.
[19:51:39] <thumbs> also, I set my bios to use AHCI for the HDD - it makes a difference
[19:51:57] <seekwill> Did you set Turbo in your BIOS too?
[19:52:03] <thumbs> seekwill: no.
[19:53:21] <thumbs> seekwill: I'm getting 8GB of RAM on it - that means I can play DtD with you again.
[19:53:43] <seekwill> Yay!
[19:55:51] <seekwill> Only 8?
[19:56:48] <thumbs> seekwill: have you seen a laptop that supports 16GB of RAM?
[19:57:11] <seekwill> I thought your laptop only goes to 2?
[19:57:14] <seekwill> Or something like that
[19:57:37] <thumbs> seekwill: nope. The bios now allows up to 8GB. The new 13" is only at 2, albeit I think I can put 4GB in it
[19:57:47] <thumbs> seekwill: 8GB is for the old XPS
[19:57:59] <seekwill> oh
[19:58:03] <thumbs> seekwill: (the one I always forget at work)
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[20:19:39] <ALVAN> !case
[20:19:39] <knoba> ALVAN: Error: "case" is not a valid command.
[20:19:44] <ALVAN> !sensitive
[20:19:44] <knoba> ALVAN: Error: "sensitive" is not a valid command.
[20:22:19] <ALVAN> hi ... how can i enable emails to case_sensitive  mailboxes that are like InFo at domain dot com  .. if emails go to info at domain dot com i got an error unknown mailbox .. i am using postfix-2.2.10
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[20:23:52] <ALVAN> !flags
[20:23:52] <knoba> ALVAN: Error: "flags" is not a valid command.
[20:24:05] <ALVAN> i must use flags=DR only ?
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[21:37:59] <asmogator> hello
[21:38:20] <asmogator> how do i setup mail relay ? ..
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[21:41:37] <thumbs> !relayhost
[21:41:37] <knoba> thumbs: "relayhost" : a configuration parameter in the main.cf: The default host to send non-local mail to when no entry is matched in the optional transport(5) table. When no relayhost is given, mail is routed directly to the destination. If your relay host requires authentication see the !saslclient channel factoid.
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[21:44:42] <asmogator> thumbs: i have to setup mail relay, now when i read about 'relayhost' i got the point, almost.. because i also received user and password for this relay and where do i specifiy this creditentals ?
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[21:45:07] <lunaphyte> !tell asmogator smtpauth
[21:45:08] <knoba> asmogator: "smtpauth" : a feature that authenticates trusted users for submitting email to postfix. See !sasl.
[21:47:00] <asmogator> alright thanks
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[22:22:15] <seekwill> So anyways
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[22:29:18] <mazpe> are there any stats on how many emails per minute can postfix handle?
[22:29:39] <seekwill> It seems dependent on disk IO
[22:29:42] <Aprogas> qmgr itself on mediocre hardware could handle 3000-4000 msgs/s in some benchmark testing solely qmgr.
[22:30:29] <seekwill> mazpe: Why do you ask?
[22:31:14] <mazpe> I have a client that has an email database of 75k opt-in email address. And he needs to email several times a day.
[22:31:48] <seekwill> Don't worry too much about the software. You would care more about deliverability/IP reputation. Consider outsourcing
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[22:32:06] <seekwill> wdp: !
[22:32:07] <mazpe> Well, they are his client and they are expecting this email...
[22:32:26] <Aprogas> Thanks to spammers, bulk delivery has become tricky business, even for legit mail.
[22:32:31] <wdp> seekwill, my girlfriend is pregnant!
[22:32:35] <seekwill> mazpe: Sure, but the receiving servers might not like the source IP, example, if they were hosting it off residential IP space
[22:32:38] <wdp> seekwill, finally! i made it!
[22:32:41] <seekwill> wdp: oops!!! sorry!
[22:32:42] <wdp> *cough*
[22:32:46] <wdp> LOL
[22:32:46] <Aprogas> It's really rather complicated.
[22:33:01] <mazpe> Thats the problem, he sends jobs for bid that requires a few thousands bidders, etc.
[22:33:35] <seekwill> mazpe: Ok?
[22:33:40] <Aprogas> Maybe he should offer a RSS-feed?
[22:33:51] <mazpe> Makes sense... even when he was explaining to me, I was a bit turned off.. I'm meeting him a few to see the entire thing.
[22:34:04] <seekwill> mazpe: Overall, you can expect Postfix to do on the "lower" end 200k/hour
[22:34:13] <rob0> wdp, I swear, I had NOTHING to do with it. NOTHING.
[22:34:23] <Aprogas> You can't just except bigmails like Yahoo or GMail to just accept a few k mails from you without becoming suspicious.
[22:34:39] <Aprogas> Postfix itself won't really be your problem.
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[22:34:48] <wdp> rob0, you can't guess how often i heard that joke today
[22:34:51] <wdp> :p
[22:34:59] <wdp> i think you're the 12th telling me that :p
[22:35:09] <mazpe> 200k/hour? thats a lot of emails...
[22:35:18] <seekwill> Not that much...
[22:35:52] <Aprogas> Are the mails personalised?
[22:36:04] <Aprogas> In other words, does each mail have a unique DATA?
[22:36:12] <mazpe> No its the same.
[22:36:15] <seekwill> Just use BCC!
[22:36:22] <Aprogas> Hmm.. those questions were inverted.
[22:36:56] <Aprogas> Find the limit that the bigmails will accept multiple recipients for, and find how many concurrent connections they will tolerate, and set custom transports to make sure you don't exceed their limits.
[22:36:57] <mazpe> Same email, maybe personalised in the sense that it will say "Hello Mark, ...."
[22:37:04] <Aprogas> I think Yahoo is more strict than the others for example.
[22:37:22] <Aprogas> "Hello Mark," means you cannot just send 50 RCPT TO with the same DATA.
[22:37:25] <seekwill> mazpe: Consider outsourcing it to handle bounces, FBL, etc. etc. etc. It's much better
[22:37:29] <Aprogas> Unless you group all Marks together.
[22:38:02] <rob0> heh, makes me think of Watership Down
[22:38:14] <Aprogas> SMTP can handle multiple recipients for the same mail, which usually makes delivery faster by a factor of $max_recipients_of_remote_mta
[22:39:38] <mazpe> I was also thinking about opening multiple amazon ec2 groupding the emails sending them and then closing the ec2
[22:40:07] <jimpop> yeah, that will work out well for ya.  best wishes with that
[22:40:26] <mazpe> but amazon's bounces more emails back that i can miagine.
[22:40:27] <rob0> yikes
[22:40:31] <mazpe> imagine.
[22:41:06] <rob0> jimpop is thinking what rob0 is thinking?
[22:41:06] <mazpe> for my clients site, I started using Google Apps, because there was a different story with amazon bouncing emails
[22:41:15] <jimpop> rob0: indeed
[22:41:37] <Aprogas> Feed bounces to a bounce-handler and purge non-functioning addresses from  your database.
[22:41:40] * jimpop laments the, once again, loss of irony
[22:41:42] <thumbs> jimpop must be going insane.
[22:41:48] <Aprogas> Repeatedly sending to non-existing addresses will make you look like a spammer.
[22:42:08] <seekwill> outsource ... outsource ... outsource ... outsource ... outsource ... outsource ... outsource ... outsource ... outsource ...
[22:42:08] <mazpe> Aprogas: right.
[22:42:27] <mazpe> outsource... hmm!
[22:43:08] <mazpe> seekwill: like a mailinst list company or something?
[22:43:24] <seekwill> yes
[22:43:50] <Aprogas> But a proper one.
[22:43:59] <mazpe> any recomendations?
[22:44:22] <seekwill> Epsilon!
[22:45:04] <seekwill> There are lots out there.
[22:45:08] <mazpe> they rather large
[22:45:11] <mazpe> they seem+
[22:45:25] <seekwill> Yes. Lots of money in email
[22:45:38] <seekwill> No one found my Epsilon joke funny? :(
[22:45:42] <rob0> I hate to recommend any in particular, because most of them look a bit spammy to me.
[22:46:00] <seekwill> Why do they look spammy?
[22:46:33] <seekwill> In most ways, they are much better than doing it in-house, as deliverability is quite important for them
[22:46:52] <seekwill> A casual postfix user would be more of a spam threat than the large ESPs
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[22:47:43] <seekwill> Unless the ESP uses a dedicated IP address per client, they very much care about bounces and FBL, taking great consideration not to send to those addresses.
[22:48:02] <Aprogas> seekwill: Don't you operate a service like that?
[22:48:07] <seekwill> Nope!
[22:48:12] <Aprogas> Are you selling your own service to mazpe? :)
[22:48:20] <rob0> Oh, I just see stuff with DNSWL.org 127.0.15.0 hitting my postscreen all the time ... often blacklisted in 2 or more DNSBLs.
[22:48:20] <seekwill> Nope!
[22:49:06] <mazpe> Aprogas: I was going to sell the development of an application that will be dedicated to this client.
[22:49:27] <Aprogas> rob0: That is email marketing providers with trustworthiness none.
[22:49:35] <rob0> right
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[22:50:13] <rob0> I even see some of them looking like zombies, pregreet and such.
[22:50:26] <seekwill> rob0: Examples?
[22:51:27] <seekwill> mazpe: Not to discourage you, but email is pretty complex. Selling some sort of integration solution would probably be more valuable
[22:52:07] <mazpe> seekwill: sounds like it... I just need to partner with the right provider that is not price prohibited but that does a clean job.
[22:52:30] <seekwill> I hear Campaign Monitor caters to web developers. They sell a white-label service
[22:52:46] <seekwill> I don't have any experience with them, but it may fit your niche
[22:53:02] <seekwill> The other ESPs could be more or less a self service that your client would go to directly
[22:53:07] <Aprogas> rob0: Is there a way to make postscreen block hosts that attempt the plaintext TLS injection?
[22:53:11] <seekwill> Your client may want help to develop an easy way to integrate though
[22:53:22] <Aprogas> Attempting a known exploit is a sure sign of a abusive host.
[22:56:02] * seekwill wants to exploit thumbs
[22:56:26] <thumbs> no.
[22:56:49] <seekwill> thumbs: Do you have any known exploits?
[22:56:56] <thumbs> seekwill: no.
[22:57:07] <seekwill> thumbs: Here, have this drink!
[22:57:11] * seekwill passes thumbs a cocktail
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[22:58:30] <mazpe> seekwill: looking deep into CampaignMonitor
[22:59:03] <mazpe> I kinda wanted to do an integrated something from our side, but it seems quite the mission
[22:59:09] <seekwill> mazpe: That's just one of them that you could possibly resell. I don't know if the other providers have that type of service
[22:59:17] <xeodox> Hey guys. DynDNS won't let me add mail.-domainkey.mydomain.com (I guess they dont allow the hypen). What should I do?
[22:59:26] <seekwill> Use an underscore :)
[23:00:01] <xeodox> seekwill:  Will that e the same?
[23:00:03] <xeodox> be*
[23:00:12] <seekwill> It's not supposed to be -
[23:00:33] <xeodox> ohh i see
[23:01:03] <xeodox> thanks!
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[23:38:38] <dall> hello
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   May 17, 2011  
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