September 26, 2010 
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September 26, 2010 [00:13:44] *** henriknj has quit IRC[00:19:29] *** JonnyV has quit IRC[00:35:59] *** EagleWatch has joined #postfix[00:36:19] *** rhenz has quit IRC[00:36:33] *** rhenz has joined #postfix[00:37:51] *** MAAAAAD has quit IRC[00:38:14] *** MAAAAAD has joined #postfix[00:48:17] *** dogmeat has quit IRC[00:50:41] *** dogmeat has joined #postfix[00:51:55] *** EagleWatch has quit IRC[01:24:06] *** echelog has joined #postfix[01:31:00] *** Vivek has joined #postfix[01:31:00] *** Vivek has joined #postfix[01:32:44] *** fredde has joined #postfix[01:54:13] *** biggi_mat has quit IRC[01:55:00] *** viddy has quit IRC[02:08:16] *** pj has left #postfix[02:10:34] *** smoking_kiddo has quit IRC[02:15:25] *** MAAAAAD has quit IRC[02:15:46] *** MAAAAAD has joined #postfix[02:16:58] *** smoking_kiddo has joined #postfix[02:16:58] *** smoking_kiddo has quit IRC[02:16:58] *** smoking_kiddo has joined #postfix[02:18:31] *** smoking_kiddo has left #postfix[02:26:35] *** sphenxes has quit IRC[02:45:15] *** nokia3510 has quit IRC[02:50:57] *** jords has joined #postfix[02:53:22] <jords> Does anyone know if it is possible for postfix to initally try to send an email directly, and then only if that fails send out the mail through a smart host?[02:58:42] *** Vince42 has joined #postfix[03:00:26] <Vince42> is it possible to use the local part as fileinto destination in a sieve script?[03:09:13] <will_> jords: That's generally not a good thing to do[03:10:06] <will_> Well, I guess I can think of a possible reason. What kind of failure are you talking about?[03:23:58] <Vince42> it's not a failure - i just want to route all catch-all mails to folders, if they should exist[03:24:30] <will_> You really shouldn't be using catchalls.[03:24:43] <will_> (and I wasn't talking to you :D )[03:25:15] <will_> Sieve is normally handled by the mailstore, so I think you should be asking there.[03:28:17] <Vince42> i know that i shouldn't use them - that's what i have a kind of "catch-all-only" domain :) - sorry for interrupting your convo btw :P ... i was just thinking about the right channel to post my question and as it's a postfix plugin i thought to start here :P[03:28:48] <will_> oh ok. I didn't know Postfix had a sieve plug in[03:29:05] <will_> So if you know you shouldn't use it, why do you?[03:30:35] *** Vivek has quit IRC[03:32:25] <Vince42> cuz it's damn handy - i use a separate e-mail addy for every domain / service / task - and sometimes I don't have the time to log into the server, create the appropriate aliases etc - that's why.[03:32:36] <will_> lol[03:33:07] <will_> I don't really know what to say...[03:33:18] <Vince42> and if somebody should do nonsense with my addy it simply lands on my block list - this keeps my mailbox to 100 % spam free :P[03:33:23] <will_> I have to assume you have some really aggressive antispam in place[03:33:37] <will_> Whatever floats your boat I guess[03:33:38] <Vince42> no, i don't[03:34:12] <will_> You know, I have a very handy script that takes care of that for me, so I don't have to worry about catchalls.[03:34:29] <Vince42> and that script does what?[03:34:37] *** wdp_ has joined #postfix[03:34:40] <will_> Adds the users I need[03:34:49] <will_> I use virtual users, so it's a simple SQL entry[03:35:34] <Vince42> it is - but if i am underways i got no easy way of accessing my server ... how do you do that then?[03:35:48] <will_> underways?[03:35:52] <will_> Huh?[03:36:32] *** riversky has quit IRC[03:36:33] <Vince42> let's picture this: you're sitting in a café and find a nice forum you want to join ... how do you tell your server that he has to accept mails in a few minutes?[03:37:02] <will_> Ah, you create a domain for each email address!!! brilliant idea![03:37:09] <Vince42> lol[03:37:10] <Vince42> nah[03:37:21] <Vince42> but a localpart for each domain i deal with[03:37:41] <will_> Sitting in a cafe... Umm... if I was that paranoid and have each forum with different email address, I'd just use my web front end that i created to add the user[03:38:15] *** wdp has quit IRC[03:38:32] <Vince42> then it's my laziness - ofc i could knock my server and go into webmin - but i prefer it the other way around :P[03:38:40] <will_> It's not webmin[03:38:52] <Vince42> whatever interface ... :)[03:39:04] <will_> Ok, well, I deal with domains with a good deal of traffic. Having a catchall just increases spam.[03:39:38] <Vince42> i use the standard postfix rules - spam is awesome low ...[03:39:45] <Vince42> no spamassassin, nothing[03:39:46] <will_> Good to hear![03:40:14] <Vince42> those postfix checks are amazing[03:40:23] <will_> They're ok[03:40:28] <Vince42> all my customers literally *begged* me to put them up for them[03:40:35] <Vince42> and they're all *very* happy now[03:40:50] <will_> They do a decent job at the normal stuff[03:41:10] <will_> But when the volume pick up...[03:41:32] <Vince42> yes and how clever the spammers are ...[03:41:36] <Vince42> in the beginning they were going like "shitdomain.com wasn't able to send an e-mail to us - wtf?" and i showed them the log files and they were quiet :P[03:41:36] <will_> yeah[03:42:14] <Vince42> there is always another trade-off when using additional tools like spamassassin - that's why i decided not to go for it ... maybe one fine day ...[03:52:57] *** Vince42 has left #postfix[05:26:32] <jords> will_, Oops didn't see this[05:27:39] <jords> I'm talking about 550 rejected mails. I want my server to first try to send the mail directly, but in the case where it's rejected, use a smarthost as a fallback[05:27:59] <jords> so I don't have to get worried monitoring my mail to make sure it's being delivered to everyone[05:28:24] <jords> I've looked into smtp_fallback_relay, but it doesn't use the fallback on 5xx responses which is a pain[05:37:06] *** MAAAAD has joined #postfix[05:37:51] <will_> jords: Umm.. if it's a 550 error, you shouldn't retry it[05:38:42] <jords> will_, Obviously retrying it from the same connection is silly. But theres a good chance that a smtp service with better reputation can deliver it[05:39:11] <will_> Uh[05:39:36] <thumbs> heh?[05:39:55] *** MAAAAAD has quit IRC[05:40:10] <jords> Theres a lot of people who have requested for smtp_fallback_relay to (optionally) handle 5xx responses also, but the feature doesn't seem to have been ever added[05:40:11] <will_> I can't say off the top of my head, but most reputation blocks are done with transient failures[05:40:32] <will_> Because a 5xx usually means they don't want it[05:40:50] <will_> it's spammy behavior[05:41:25] <will_> Yahoo might be different. They're all messed up with some of their codes[05:42:16] <jords> The mail isn't spam, but it's important that it's delivered to everyone on the list. I don't want to have to spend a lot of time monitoring the server to see who is rejecting mail and following that up - but If i can save sending 90% of the mail to the smart host, that's a big cost saving[05:43:26] <will_> If it's important, why not just use the smarthost directly?[05:43:59] <jords> will_: Because it's expensive, and most mail will be able to be delivered without using the smarthost[05:44:32] <jords> Alternately, is there a tool/web interface that will show which destinations the server has been unable to deliver to? Maybe i am going about this the wrong way, my users send out about 35000-60,000 emails a month, this is all people who have subscribed[05:45:08] <will_> With that volume, you're still not able to gain reputation? Your story doesn't line up :)[05:46:09] <will_> Going through your logs will probably be your best bet[05:46:46] <jords> will_, I haven't actually tried it. I'm sure with some work I would be able to gain a good reputation and get mail sending working, but I can see it becoming a time drain to chase up xyz small isp and work out why mail isn't being accepted[05:47:17] <jords> but, is this not a big problem? If it's a rare situation then it might be ok[05:47:54] <jords> still, it seems like a good solution to pay for a smtp service to handle the edge cases, I just can't find the right configuration to do it :)[05:48:34] <will_> That's why handling email is not a good thing anymore and best outsourced[05:49:35] <jords> I agree completely. But I would prefer to not outsource it all, since it's pretty costly to be sending 60,000 emails out through the email services that are around. It seems like we are going in circles here :)[05:51:47] <will_> We're going in circles because what you're looking for doesn't really exist[05:53:10] <jords> Why not? :P[05:54:17] <will_> You want a feature to not respect a perm failure because you dont want to investigate your logs and resolve the issues. That's really spammy behavior. If it's "important", there should be some $$$ behind it.[05:55:28] <will_> And really, 60k is falls below many thresholds and most of the receivers seem to allow those right in unless there was prior issues[05:55:48] <will_> Some of those "prior issues" could be guilt by association off your /24[05:56:02] <will_> Or if you're not following the rfc 200%[05:57:06] <jords> I haven't actually had problems - I'm just trying to avoid them. I think I will set everything up for the normal sending and see how it goes[05:57:18] <will_> Sounds like a plan[05:57:48] <jords> Is there a good tool to monitor 550 rejections?[05:57:56] <will_> grep[05:58:11] <will_> I think Google has a tool[05:58:12] <jords> I'm setting up logcheck at the moment so that could be good... yeah grep would do it too :)[05:58:28] <will_> splunk might do a good job with it[05:58:32] <will_> (never used it)[06:03:15] <jords> ok... thanks for the help. Just going to go set up the spf etc and then try a mail out, what happens :)[06:24:04] *** hesco has quit IRC[06:30:57] *** hesco has joined #postfix[06:39:34] *** p3rror has quit IRC[06:54:29] *** hesco has quit IRC[07:06:13] *** Motoko-chan has joined #postfix[07:21:59] *** EagleWatch has quit IRC[07:25:05] *** EagleWatch has joined #postfix[07:37:56] *** Emoteleco has quit IRC[08:22:48] *** ServerCrash has joined #postfix[08:29:21] *** cga has joined #postfix[08:30:11] *** fOrsberg is now known as forsberg[08:46:00] *** ServerCrash has quit IRC[08:46:00] *** ServerCrash has joined #postfix[08:54:54] *** nokia3510 has joined #postfix[08:55:01] *** ServerDown has joined #postfix[08:57:11] *** ServerCrash has quit IRC[09:21:42] *** Alagar has joined #postfix[09:23:07] *** cga has quit IRC[09:30:23] *** cga has joined #postfix[10:07:15] *** niki has joined #postfix[10:13:32] *** smica has joined #postfix[10:19:21] *** Motoko-chan has quit IRC[10:22:34] *** brancaleone has joined #postfix[10:36:22] * will_ is honeypotting[10:56:24] *** Trengo has quit IRC[11:04:46] *** TomHome has joined #postfix[11:09:30] *** NotInternat has quit IRC[11:10:33] *** ServerDown has quit IRC[11:12:30] *** Golemus has joined #postfix[11:14:48] *** Dovid has joined #postfix[11:14:49] <Golemus> Hello people! if I have in my smtpd_recipient_restrictions permit_sasl_authenticated, would rbl blacklists for authenticated senders be checked or not?[11:19:38] <sysmonk> Golemus: depends on the ordering of the rules[11:20:20] <Golemus> thanks sysmonk, I have the permit before the rbl[11:20:59] <sysmonk> then it won't be checked[11:22:28] <Golemus> good... I had this client on a blacklisted adsl IP complaining that he couldn't send mails authenticated , I suppose it was not really using any authentication then[11:24:42] <will_> Check the logs[11:26:10] *** master_of_master has quit IRC[11:28:09] *** master_of_master has joined #postfix[11:38:22] *** Internat has joined #postfix[11:42:29] *** Golemus has quit IRC[12:02:18] *** sphenxes has joined #postfix[12:05:22] *** hever has joined #postfix[12:05:48] *** hever has quit IRC[12:07:28] *** Alagar has quit IRC[12:26:08] *** EagleWatch has quit IRC[12:38:06] *** EagleWatch has joined #postfix[12:40:16] *** zinovik has joined #postfix[12:47:13] *** henriknj has joined #postfix[13:00:33] *** zinovik has quit IRC[13:02:44] *** zinovik has joined #postfix[13:04:26] *** EagleWatch has quit IRC[13:06:15] *** brancal has joined #postfix[13:06:18] *** NotInternat has joined #postfix[13:06:43] *** EagleWatch has joined #postfix[13:09:08] *** brancaleone has quit IRC[13:09:12] *** Internat has quit IRC[13:12:48] *** EagleWatch has quit IRC[13:19:50] *** brancal is now known as brancaleone[13:31:29] *** zinovik has quit IRC[13:33:35] *** zinovik has joined #postfix[13:45:46] *** wdp_ has quit IRC[13:47:54] *** TomHome has quit IRC[13:52:15] *** smica has quit IRC[14:00:59] *** madduck_ has quit IRC[14:01:25] *** wdp has joined #postfix[14:01:27] *** wdp has quit IRC[14:01:27] *** wdp has joined #postfix[14:06:11] *** madduck has joined #postfix[14:09:03] *** jeremymcs has quit IRC[14:10:31] *** wdp has quit IRC[14:49:40] *** zinovik has quit IRC[14:56:04] *** viddy has joined #postfix[15:25:23] *** Trengo has joined #postfix[15:25:25] <Trengo> morning[15:26:11] *** brancal has joined #postfix[15:29:01] *** brancaleone has quit IRC[15:30:52] *** cga has quit IRC[15:39:15] *** Matic`Makovec has joined #postfix[15:51:19] *** adaptr has quit IRC[15:57:49] *** smica has joined #postfix[16:08:13] *** rhenz has quit IRC[16:09:19] *** jords has quit IRC[16:24:07] *** nokia3510 has quit IRC[16:46:19] *** MatBoy has quit IRC[16:46:39] *** MatBoy has joined #postfix[16:46:58] *** adaptr has joined #postfix[16:46:58] *** adaptr has joined #postfix[16:47:20] *** adaptr has quit IRC[16:51:56] *** adaptr has joined #postfix[16:51:56] *** adaptr has joined #postfix[16:53:35] *** adaptr has quit IRC[16:54:40] *** adaptr has joined #postfix[16:54:42] *** nokia3510 has joined #postfix[16:58:59] *** JonnyV has joined #postfix[17:08:34] *** JonnyV has quit IRC[17:22:55] *** sphenxes has quit IRC[17:33:04] *** smica has quit IRC[17:41:35] *** henriknj has quit IRC[17:57:52] *** brancaleone has joined #postfix[17:58:46] *** wdp_aao has joined #postfix[17:58:53] *** master_of_master has quit IRC[18:00:02] *** doomas_na has quit IRC[18:00:19] *** brancal has quit IRC[18:12:26] *** Vivek has joined #postfix[18:12:27] *** Vivek has joined #postfix[18:18:06] *** sherr has quit IRC[18:18:23] *** wdp has joined #postfix[18:21:54] *** sebbow has quit IRC[18:24:44] *** sherr has joined #postfix[18:26:18] *** sphenxes has joined #postfix[18:26:31] *** doomas_na has joined #postfix[18:28:11] *** wdp has quit IRC[18:37:22] *** sherr has quit IRC[18:40:56] *** jeremymcs has joined #postfix[18:46:15] <jeremymcs> anyone seen a spike in hotmail spams over the past few weeks ?[18:51:16] *** sherr has joined #postfix[18:53:11] <Aprogas> Not specifically, but I reject most spam and don't investigate the reject logs.[18:54:59] <jeremymcs> their passing through[18:55:22] <Aprogas> I did notice a strange spam today that caused thunderbird to not use a monospaced font in the source view.[18:55:44] <jeremymcs> CheapComupterSotfawreFoorMMacAndPC[18:55:54] <jeremymcs> re-arranging letters[19:04:43] *** sebuba has joined #postfix[19:26:13] *** Vivek has quit IRC[19:54:02] *** Matic`Makovec has quit IRC[20:10:06] *** friskd has quit IRC[20:31:32] *** cafuego has quit IRC[20:42:41] <jeremymcs> what reliable SA channels do you use Aprogas ?[20:42:44] <jeremymcs> or do u[20:43:47] *** dxtr has quit IRC[20:44:18] <Aprogas> Default I think.[20:45:08] <jeremymcs> hmm[20:52:29] <lunaphyte> the base sa channel along with the dostech channels are by far the best combination.[20:56:04] <jeremymcs> i knew i forgot one .. on these new servers .. dostech[20:56:05] <jeremymcs> :([20:58:08] <jeremymcs> wait .. no i have dostech[20:58:10] <jeremymcs> hmm[21:01:28] <will_> What's an SA channel?[21:01:41] <lunaphyte> !parrot[21:01:42] <knoba> lunaphyte: "parrot" : please don't repeat what someone else has said and tack a question mark on to the end. if you don't understand something about what was said, or have a question, that's fine - just ask it. those who donate their time here aren't interested in guessing what the ? actually means, typing an explanation, and hoping that they're right.[21:01:57] <lunaphyte> oh, oops, that's the wrong one.[21:02:02] <lunaphyte> !encyclopedia[21:02:02] <knoba> lunaphyte: "encyclopedia" : please don't treat the people here as encyclopedias. if a term or concept is introduced that you're not familiar with, then use your favorite search engine and go read about it. do *not* immediately ask what is <newterm>?[21:02:59] *** dxtr has joined #postfix[21:03:02] <will_> haha[21:03:04] <will_> :P[21:04:48] *** jeremymcs has quit IRC[21:05:14] *** jeremymcs has joined #postfix[21:07:07] *** dxtr has quit IRC[21:11:33] <will_> thumbs: What is an SA channel???[21:12:11] <thumbs> will_: a spammer anonymous channel.[21:12:27] <will_> omg!!! i want to join![21:12:35] <thumbs> will_: I'll invite you.[21:12:40] <will_> Thanks![21:13:35] <thumbs> now I have 99 invites left[21:14:17] <will_> Where did you send it to?[21:14:39] <thumbs> will_: will at spammers dot are.us[21:14:47] *** uqlev has joined #postfix[21:14:48] <will_> Ah doh![21:14:52] <will_> I lost that domain :/[21:15:05] *** jeremymcs_ has joined #postfix[21:16:03] <thumbs> doh.[21:16:23] *** jeremymcs_ has quit IRC[21:16:39] *** jeremymcs has quit IRC[21:17:02] *** jeremymcs_ has joined #postfix[21:18:41] *** smica has joined #postfix[21:20:22] *** dxtr has joined #postfix[21:21:02] *** jeremymcs_ is now known as jeremymcs[21:24:43] <jeremymcs> http://pastebin.com/B3hjn9bv[21:24:51] <jeremymcs> current SA channels ..[21:30:06] *** sebuba has quit IRC[21:35:47] *** Rinsmaster has joined #postfix[21:37:40] <Rinsmaster> This may be a stupid question, but: If I just open port 25 on my server (with postfix on it), won't people (like spammers) be able to send huge amounts of mail through my server? It doesn't feel very secure.[21:38:08] <thumbs> Rinsmaster: don't configure postfix as an open relay.[21:38:18] <thumbs> Rinsmaster: for local delivery, use spam filtering.[21:39:15] <will_> heh[21:39:22] <Rinsmaster> thumbs: It's not configured as an open relay by default?[21:39:29] <thumbs> Rinsmaster: no.[21:39:33] <thumbs> Rinsmaster: why would it be?[21:39:59] <Rinsmaster> I have no idea, I'm trying to understand the whole mail server system[21:40:11] <thumbs> !basic[21:40:11] <knoba> thumbs: "basic" : http://www.postfix.org/BASIC_CONFIGURATION_README.html : a good starting place for Postfix beginners, many common questions are answered here.[21:40:19] <thumbs> !overview[21:40:19] <knoba> thumbs: "overview" : Postfix Architecture Overview : http://www.postfix.org/OVERVIEW.html[21:40:24] <thumbs> Rinsmaster: see those[21:40:31] <Rinsmaster> Thanks, will take a look[21:41:23] *** pinoyskull has joined #postfix[21:44:14] *** ipavkovic has joined #postfix[21:48:59] *** Matic`Makovec has joined #postfix[21:57:42] *** ipavkovic has quit IRC[22:21:45] *** nokia3510 has quit IRC[22:22:06] *** Rinsmaster has left #postfix[22:23:24] <will_> How can I get SA to only scan messages from an arbitrary domain?[22:24:00] *** JonnyV has joined #postfix[22:29:52] <Aprogas> You could use the FILTER action in an access(5) file.[22:59:03] *** sudfignqg has joined #postfix[22:59:17] <sudfignqg> Hi[22:59:33] *** sudfignqg is now known as RedRum`[22:59:51] <RedRum`> Hi[23:00:02] <RedRum`> quick question about postfix smtp queue[23:00:33] <RedRum`> 1) How is the queue which holds messages to be sent (received via smtp) called ?[23:00:48] <RedRum`> 2) How can I change the queue flush delay ?[23:00:49] <RedRum`> Tnak you.[23:00:53] <RedRum`> Thank*[23:01:09] <uqlev> RedRum`, postqueue -f[23:01:31] <uqlev> RedRum`, that is for 10[23:01:39] <uqlev> 1)[23:02:16] <RedRum`> My problem is that messages aren't queued[23:02:24] <RedRum`> When I send a message via smtp[23:02:30] <RedRum`> I would like it to be queued[23:02:38] <RedRum`> so the smtp server immediately returns "ok"[23:02:52] <RedRum`> and the application which made the request can continue[23:03:30] <uqlev> RedRum`, I can't get you[23:03:34] <RedRum`> ok[23:03:41] <RedRum`> I'm using PHP[23:03:49] <RedRum`> When I send an email[23:03:55] <uqlev> RedRum`, all messages before being set are queued[23:04:04] <RedRum`> problem is[23:04:23] <RedRum`> the mail() function doe not return until the message is sent[23:04:36] <RedRum`> does*[23:04:58] *** Guest83537 has joined #postfix[23:05:48] <uqlev> RedRum`, regret, I have no idea how does your php-code work[23:06:16] <will_> RedRum`: I don't believe so[23:06:56] <will_> RedRum`: Why do you think the function doesn't return until it is delivered?[23:06:56] <RedRum`> Nevermind, I think I know where the issue is - has nothing to do with postfix I guess[23:07:04] <RedRum`> Sorry for making you wasting your time[23:07:22] <uqlev> RedRum`, dpaste your maillog 1st[23:08:02] *** RedRum` has quit IRC[23:15:08] *** JonnyV_ has joined #postfix[23:15:11] *** Guest83537 has quit IRC[23:18:24] *** JonnyV has quit IRC[23:18:36] *** brancal has joined #postfix[23:19:15] *** tjikkun has quit IRC[23:20:18] *** brancaleone has quit IRC[23:27:47] *** Matic`Makovec has quit IRC[23:30:09] *** ToxicFrog has joined #postfix[23:30:21] <ToxicFrog> Is it possible to override the 501 rejects for bad sender addresses?[23:32:06] <ToxicFrog> At present I'm having an issue where I get spam with malformed sender addresses, postfix rejects it with error 501, kicking it back to fetchmail, which leaves it on the server. I'd rather just accept the message and discard it.[23:37:20] *** brahama__ has joined #postfix[23:39:52] *** JonnyV has joined #postfix[23:39:58] *** smica has quit IRC[23:41:06] *** JonnyV_ has quit IRC[23:42:12] *** brahama__ has quit IRC[23:46:41] *** JonnyV_ has joined #postfix[23:49:26] *** JonnyV has quit IRC[23:53:02] *** brancal is now known as brancaleone[23:53:43] <will_> Malformed sender address?[23:53:51] <will_> Why didn't the MTA before the fetchmail reject it?