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[00:58:59] <spiderbatdad> Dec 22 17:51:38 spiderbatdad-desktop postfix/master[2306]: fatal: remove private/amavis: Permission denied
[00:58:59] <spiderbatdad> Dec 22 17:52:05 spiderbatdad-desktop imapd-ssl: authentication error: Input/output error
[00:58:59] <spiderbatdad> Dec 22 17:52:18 spiderbatdad-desktop postfix/master[2405]: fatal: remove private/amavis: Permission denied
[00:58:59] <spiderbatdad> Dec 22 17:52:35 spiderbatdad-desktop imapd-ssl: authentication error: Input/output error
[00:58:59] <spiderbatdad> Dec 22 17:54:19 spiderbatdad-desktop postfix/master[2772]: fatal: remove private/amavis: Permission denied
[00:59:00] <spiderbatdad> Dec 22 17:55:59 spiderbatdad-desktop postfix/master[3140]: fatal: remove public/amavis: Permission denied
[00:59:02] <spiderbatdad> Dec 22 18:05:02 spiderbatdad-desktop postfix/master[3518]: fatal: remove public/amavis: Permission denied
[00:59:04] <spiderbatdad> Dec 22 18:11:52 spiderbatdad-desktop postfix/master[3923]: fatal: fifo_listen: remove public/pickup: Permission denied
[00:59:07] <rob0> damn
[00:59:09] <spiderbatdad> Dec 22 18:15:49 spiderbatdad-desktop postfix/master[4285]: fatal: remove private/amavis: Permission denied
[00:59:10] <spiderbatdad> Dec 22 18:56:47 spiderbatdad-desktop postfix/master[4715]: fatal: remove private/amavis: Permission denied
[00:59:13] <spiderbatdad> ouch
[00:59:13] <rob0> STOP
[00:59:19] <growltiger> OMFG
[00:59:26] <growltiger> WTF
[00:59:29] <spiderbatdad> apolopies
[00:59:44] <spiderbatdad> apologies even
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[01:01:33] <rob0> master, getting permission denied errors? What did you do?
[01:02:18] <spiderbatdad> not sure
[01:02:50] <spiderbatdad> its taken a lot to get auth working...but still was getting mail
[01:03:37] <rob0> Don't go mucking about as root in Postfix-owned directories.
[01:03:48] <rob0> "man postfix" might have a fix
[01:04:24] <rob0> is this SELinux or other malady?
[01:04:43] <spiderbatdad> debian
[01:05:00] <spiderbatdad> gnu/linux/debian-based/ubuntu
[01:05:07] <rob0> Debian doesn't usually use SELinux
[01:05:08] <spiderbatdad> lol
[01:05:31] <spiderbatdad> following flurdy's postfix+++ guide
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[01:05:48] <rob0> !basic
[01:05:49] <knoba> rob0: "basic" : http://www.postfix.org/BASIC_CONFIGURATION_README.html : a good starting place for Postfix beginners, many common questions are answered here.
[01:08:53] <spiderbatdad> sudo postconf -e "inet_interfaces = all"
[01:08:57] <spiderbatdad> maybe that did it
[01:09:36] <rob0> well, that might have done something, but it didn't fix the broken permissions.
[01:09:53] <spiderbatdad> i thought started the problem
[01:09:58] <spiderbatdad> i didnt have it earlier
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[01:52:04] <muh2000> hi
[01:52:32] <muh2000> is there a way to have dkim outbound working on port 25 instead of submission?
[01:54:34] <sahil> yes.
[01:54:53] <muh2000> enlighten me how it is possible :)
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[01:58:43] <muh2000> sahil: ?
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[02:03:24] <sahil> muh2000: i haven't a clue as to how you have dkim in your mail infrastructure so open-ended vague questions like that get vague answers. :)
[02:03:27] <sahil> !tias
[02:03:30] <knoba> sahil: "tias" : Try It And See
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[02:03:57] <muh2000> ok ^^
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[02:05:21] <muh2000> i thought there would be a more general way. since the proxy thing is pita
[02:07:42] <muh2000> http://nopaste.org/p/aILghWZv2 that is my master.cf
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[02:09:18] <Dreamr_3> hey
[02:09:41] <Dreamr_3> i have deploy: some.address at blah dot com in my /aliases file... and the mail gets sent properly but the headers are weird
[02:09:57] <Dreamr_3> is there some way to make the mail appear addressed to the alias addresS?
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[02:13:09] <Dreamr_3> expand_owner_alias?
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[02:18:44] <Dreamr_3> anyone know?
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[02:20:53] <sahil> muh2000: i use amavisd-new and integrate dkim therein.
[02:21:10] <muh2000> sahil: for input and output mail?
[02:21:42] <sahil> muh2000: no, i only sign outgoing mail that originates from my users or mynetworks.
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[02:22:03] <muh2000> sahil: input i meant checks on the key
[02:22:38] <sahil> muh2000: oh, well checking dkim is not signing; spamassassin does do dkim checks as part of its wider function.
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[02:24:25] <sahil> muh2000: if you're interested in going that route (i highly recommend), try http://www.ijs.si/software/amavisd/amavisd-new-docs.html#dkim
[02:24:53] <sahil> pay particular attention to the overview of mail flow and different methods of integration.
[02:27:36] <sahil> gtg.
[02:27:44] <muh2000> ok thnx
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[02:45:29] <Dreamr_3> anyone know about aliases and to header rewriting?
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[03:24:33] <harlan> over the past week or so my postfix+procmail installation has been dropping new email into my MH inbox except the new email has extra initial LFs and I can get several messages left in a single file.
[03:24:39] <harlan> Anybpody else seeing this?
[03:25:55] <Dominian> are you on debian?
[03:26:26] <harlan> freebsd
[03:26:40] <Dominian> damn
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[04:19:22] <sahil> harlan: switch to maildir and leave that archaic MH in the past.
[04:19:34] <sahil> Dreamr_3: what is the problem?
[04:20:12] <harlan> sahil: no thanks.  And I'm not sure that would solve the problem.
[04:20:32] <sahil> harlan: enjoy, then.
[04:21:05] <harlan> procmail hasn't changed, and that's the LDA.
[04:21:16] <harlan> Something is going on, and I'd like to figure out the root cause.
[04:21:56] <sahil> something changed.
[04:22:02] * sahil loves truisms
[04:22:06] <harlan> agreed.  Time to figure out what.
[04:23:00] <harlan> procmail hasn't changed in 6 months.
[04:23:44] <harlan> postfix hasn't changed in 5+ weeks' time
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[04:28:26] <thumbs> if nothing has changed, then everything is fine
[04:29:26] <harlan> so obviously something else has changed.
[04:29:47] <thumbs> yes, something has changed in the process
[04:31:01] <sahil> this is a conclusion to which we have already arrived; the search is on in earnest.
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[04:32:05] <harlan> interestingly, the multiple messages that are being delivered into a single message are arriving over the span of several->many minutes.
[04:32:13] <harlan> :1
[04:37:05] <harlan> and the procmail log shows... occasional problems with spamassassin and SIGPIPE, but none on these messages.  It's a start though.
[04:37:23] <sahil> why do you use procmail as a global LDA?
[04:37:32] <sahil> what's wrong with local or maildrop?
[04:37:48] <harlan> I have per-user procmail rules.  I've been using it for Years.
[04:38:02] <sahil> *yawn*
[04:38:05] <sahil> and why do you insist on MH?
[04:38:08] <harlan> We use tagged addresses/
[04:38:27] <harlan> I've been using it for Many Year.  I have lots of folders.
[04:39:09] <sahil> lol
[04:39:19] <sahil> this is an exercise in futility.
[04:39:42] <harlan> OK.
[04:39:59] <sahil> this is quite clearly not a postfix problem.
[04:40:07] <harlan> agreed.
[04:40:21] <sahil> you should seek help in the procmail forums.  those who lurk there are better suited to help you.
[04:40:32] <harlan> thanks for your help.
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[04:54:51] <rob0> I use procmail myself, but for myself only, not at the server level. And with tagged addresses you could easily dump it.
[04:55:49] <rob0> .forward+tag1 : /home/harlan/Mail/.tag1
[04:55:56] <rob0> .forward+tag2 : /home/harlan/Mail/.tag2
[04:59:53] <harlan> From what I can tell it is a problem with spamassassin exiting with SIGPIPE errors.
[05:00:24] <harlan> I also have a strong, ingrained preference for having all my email appear in a single inbox.
[05:01:42] <harlan> This current episode may get me to move from spamassasin to dspam, though.
[05:06:13] <rob0> oh hmm
[05:06:33] <rob0> I use multiple IMAP folders.
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[05:20:09] <harlan> There are places I do too, but for other folks.
[05:21:07] <harlan> The root cause seems to be with spamassassin, and I'm now seeing it at several sites.
[05:24:10] <rob0> SA is where, invoked from procmail, or amavisd, or what?
[05:24:45] <harlan> procmail
[05:27:39] <sahil> rob0: that is how i use procmail too; i was disappointed to hear harlan uses it as a global lda.
[05:28:44] <rob0> I might start weaning off of it, the procmail maildir implementation is ugly.
[05:29:04] <harlan> what is the significant difference you see between running procmail as an LDA instead of via a .forward file?
[05:29:57] <rob0> Postfix-created maildirs have a consistent naming convention, alpha sort is also time-received sort. But the procmail maildirs ... yikes.
[05:30:45] <rob0> I set myself up with a bunch of crazy procmail recipes years ago, but none of my other users needs it.
[05:31:31] <harlan> maildir would be better if it was better.  It was never designed for folders and it has race conditions.
[05:31:50] * sahil blinks
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[05:33:28] * sahil thinks harlan needs to familiarize him/herself with exactly how and why maildir works.  pay particular attention to how race conditions are avoided.
[05:33:50] <harlan> You must be a youngster, sahil.
[05:34:27] <sahil> harlan: don't bother engaging in a sniping match; i will simply ignore you.
[05:34:32] <sahil> tread carefully.
[05:34:47] <harlan> no worries.  Time for me to go eat dinner.
[05:34:52] <sahil> shoo, then.
[05:35:11] <harlan> As I said before.
[05:35:15] <sahil> take it to #procmail.
[05:35:32] <sahil> where people deduce others' age based on .. wait, NOTHING. haha.
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[05:59:32] <yajith> hi all..
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[06:00:11] <yajith> m trying to restrict sender addresses to a set of addresses..
[06:01:14] <yajith> trying with smtpd_restriction_classes
[06:01:16] <yajith> and check_sender_access
[06:01:16] <yajith> but so far no luck..
[06:01:16] <yajith> any hints would be great.
[06:01:55] <yajith> i have only 1 class in smtpd_restriction_classes
[06:02:06] <yajith> and i have check_sender_access in two places...
[06:02:37] <rob0> I guess you saw this:
[06:02:43] <rob0> !restriction_class
[06:02:44] <knoba> rob0: "restriction_class" : postfix per-client/user/etc. access control http://www.postfix.org/RESTRICTION_CLASS_README.html
[06:05:19] <yajith> hmm..
[06:05:52] <yajith> my postconf -n is at http://fpaste.org/paste/97
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[06:07:48] <Haris1> I want to discuss scenarios' for using multiple IPs, just for the sake of knowledge and argument
[06:08:01] <Haris1> I have 20 IPs
[06:08:11] <Haris1> I setup them all up on a freebsd/linux box
[06:08:21] <Haris1> I set+ them all up on a freebsd/linux box
[06:08:37] <Haris1> Define one domain name or two domain names against those 20 IPs
[06:08:40] <Haris1> in dns
[06:09:09] <yajith> rob0: wut m trying to do is, just restrict outside senders for a selected set of group addresses..
[06:10:38] <yajith> ob0: !restriction_class ?? sry..ddnt get u..
[06:11:28] <Haris1> I hasve the IPs, I have the box, I have the bandwidth
[06:11:38] <Haris1> I want to postfix to use all those IPs for outgoing mail
[06:11:43] <Haris1> hmm
[06:12:15] <rob0> Haris, you know you've been sounding like a spammer?
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[06:13:23] <rob0> You could have a separate smtp(8) transport per IP address. Then figure out how to do the routing ...
[06:13:39] <yajith> rob0:!restriction_class ?? sry..ddnt get u..
[06:13:55] <rob0> !tell yajith restriction_class
[06:13:56] <knoba> yajith: "restriction_class" : postfix per-client/user/etc. access control http://www.postfix.org/RESTRICTION_CLASS_README.html
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[06:41:13] <yajith> knoba: rob0: thanks!!! :)
[06:41:54] <Haris1> routing
[06:41:55] <Haris1> hmm
[06:42:20] <Haris1> I'm setting up postfix+mysql+postfixadmin+dovecot + domainkeys + spf
[06:42:31] <Haris1> + amavis + clamav
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[06:44:03] <k-man> I have a user set up with an alias, the user set up a vacation message which works when i send an email directly to user, but if i send an email to the alias, i don't get a response from the vacation message
[06:44:09] <k-man> is that normal behaviour?
[06:49:32] <k-man> ah - it was - i had to add an option to the vacation command so it would process for alias also
[06:49:37] <k-man> thanks
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[09:43:58] <jangell> Does it make more sense to use Courier libraries for SASL or the Dovecot method?
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[09:47:09] <snappy> courier doesn't have SASL libraries, so I assume you mean cyrus.
[09:47:58] <snappy> Either one works I guess, whatever comes with your system is probably the most appropriate (usually cyrus)
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[11:14:41] <CAiRO_> hi
[11:15:32] <CAiRO_> which rbl services are trustworthy these days? i want to implement some pre queue blacklist checks using maps_rbl_domains but im not sure which services to use
[11:17:18] <jra> maps_rbl_domains?? that's ancient.
[11:17:38] <f3ew> !cheatsheet
[11:17:39] <knoba> f3ew: "cheatsheet" : http://jimsun.linxnet.com/misc/postfix-anti-UCE.txt : A HOWTO for pre-DATA spam control.
[11:19:39] <CAiRO_> jra: ok, but thats what you find if you search using google..
[11:19:51] <CAiRO_> those ancient documents should be set to noindex
[11:20:31] <CAiRO_> anyway, thanks a lot for the link, it looks really helpful
[11:22:04] <jra> nono, that doc is really fine
[11:22:38] <CAiRO_> ok, but it is missing a link to the new version :)
[11:26:23] <f3ew> CAiRO_, use the documents on your hard disk
[11:26:29] <f3ew> Or see the cheatsheet link
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[11:53:55] <ronr> I have postfix setup on debian like described on workaround.org, is it possible to add some custom header like X-Checkheader: md5sum(today + somesecretstring) to mails and have those with valid headers skip spam checking?
[11:58:06] <war9407> <CAiRO_> which rbl services are trustworthy these days? i want to implement some pre queue blacklist checks using maps_rbl_domains but im not sure which services to use
[11:58:10] <war9407> that requires lots of testing ;)
[11:58:48] <f3ew> ronr use a custom policy service
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[12:01:56] * ronr googles
[12:02:37] <ronr> f3ew: thx, got some reading to do now :)
[12:04:37] <CAiRO_> war9407: what requires a lot of testing? using rbls?
[12:05:38] <war9407> CAiRO_: yeah, to find out which have the most/least false positives etc
[12:06:23] <CAiRO_> well, yeah, and thats why im sure thereve been other people doing these tests so i dont have to repeat them :)
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[12:20:26] <Nicolas_> i installed a development server (LAMP) on a debian system. Now, i'd like to have the hability to send mails from this machine,but using an external Qmail server. Is that simple to do with postfix ?
[12:23:10] <R1ck> that would be a smart_host or something
[12:23:11] <sep> Nicolas_, not very, but debian come preconfigured with exim. just rerun the exim config to set it the way you want.
[12:23:53] <Nicolas_> that's what i tried to do, but unsuccessfully. I keep on getting errors, and don't find a solution
[12:24:51] <Nicolas_> this is quite difficult for me, because : 1) i'm not fluent in english, 2) i suck with Linux (still i'm willing to improve)
[12:25:09] <CAiRO_> so hire someone to do it for you :)
[12:25:12] <Nicolas_> :)
[12:25:17] <f3ew> !relayhost
[12:25:18] <knoba> f3ew: "relayhost" : a configuration parameter in the main.cf: The default host to send non-local mail to when no entry is matched in the optional transport(5) table. When no relayhost is given, mail is routed directly to the destination. If your relay host requires authentication see the !saslclient channel factoid.
[12:25:25] <f3ew> Setup relayhost
[12:25:32] <f3ew> !basic
[12:25:33] <knoba> f3ew: "basic" : http://www.postfix.org/BASIC_CONFIGURATION_README.html : a good starting place for Postfix beginners, many common questions are answered here.
[12:25:36] <f3ew> !standard
[12:25:37] <knoba> f3ew: "standard" : Your question is probably answered in http://www.postfix.org/STANDARD_CONFIGURATION_README.html
[12:25:43] <f3ew> Read those last two links
[12:25:46] <Nicolas_> thank you very much
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[12:45:25] <recon1025> is it possible to block a whole domain in the sender_access ?
[12:45:31] <f3ew> yes
[12:45:36] <recon1025> err
[12:45:37] <recon1025> not domain
[12:45:40] <recon1025> we aready do that
[12:45:44] <recon1025> but like a whole country
[12:45:52] <recon1025> .es .ar
[12:45:58] <f3ew> yes
[12:46:05] <f3ew> a ccTLD
[12:46:24] <recon1025> could you please provide an example? we need to block russia so .ru
[12:46:33] <recon1025> but .ru REJECT wont work
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[12:48:50] <recon1025> we simply utilize a sender_access and recipient_access
[12:50:41] <recon1025> without the . it worked
[12:50:41] <recon1025> :)
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[13:38:31] <active_si> hi all! I'd like to know if it is possible to block outgoing NDR mails, i.e. if a user on my server sends out a mail he should receive any error messages back, but if a spammer sends mail to our server and our server responds with an error message it should not be delivered to the "sender". can this be done?
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[13:40:57] <shasta> first of all, why does your server respond with a bounce?
[13:42:11] <cpm> not doing recipient validation probably
[13:42:24] <active_si> it responds with a bounce only in cases when the "subdelivery system" can not deliver the mail to the user mailbox
[13:42:54] <active_si> in any other cases /recipient validation/ etc. the server responds with 5xx code in the session
[13:43:25] <cpm> and why can't it deliver to the user mailbox? You shouldn't accept mail you can't deliver. Bounces should be quite rare.
[13:44:44] <active_si> if there is something really wrong, i.e. if the mailbox is full etc.
[13:44:50] <active_si> and yes bounces are rare but they happen
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[13:46:37] <cpm> if the mail cannot be delivered, then it should bounce.
[13:48:33] <active_si> yes but I have set the mailserver so that the default error code is 4xx so that the mail stays in the system and should be delivered later
[13:49:12] <cpm> *If* you accept the mail, and the mail cannot be delivered, then it will generate a bounce.
[13:49:25] <cpm> default error code 4xx doesn't change that.
[13:50:43] <cpm> Tell me, what is the difference between a 'spammer' (as you put it) and an email user?
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[13:55:40] <active_si> cpm: a spammer is one that sends emails in other peoples names i.e. uses their email, and therefore the real email user get's the bounce back for mail that he did not send
[13:56:15] <cpm> and how does that generate a bounce?
[13:56:36] <cpm> I don'
[13:56:48] <cpm> t accept mail I can't deliver, so this wouldn't work on my servers
[13:57:15] <cpm> If you do this, you are generating what's known as backscatter spam, and this will end up getting you blacklisted.
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[14:01:10] <active_si> I accept mail only that should be delivered but within the delivery process an error can occur that can not be foreseen while in session, and only in those rare cases the bounces occur
[14:04:00] <cpm> So, what's the problem?
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[14:07:20] <active_si> I'd like to prevent for this bounces to get outside my system, if this is an internal mail i.e. user-to-user it should be delivered, but if this is an "outside"user-to-user it should not be delivered to the "outside"user
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[14:27:23] <spiderbatdad> hi all, periodically auth is failing, seemingly as a result conflict between authmysqlrc: concat(home,'/',maildir)  and the virtual_mailbox_base defined in main.cf
[14:28:13] <spiderbatdad> resulting in log: concat(var/spool/mail/virtual,'/',maildir) Unknown column 'var' in 'field list'
[14:29:00] <spiderbatdad> wondering if it is safe to comment out virtual_mailbox_base in the main.cf?
[14:32:15] <f3ew> no
[14:32:36] <f3ew> leave it as /
[14:33:15] <f3ew> and the concat should become 'var/spool/mail/virtual', '/', maildir
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[14:35:18] <spiderbatdad> f3ew,  ok I'll test that a bit. ty
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[14:51:22] <spiderbatdad> well isn't working. home is defined in the db as /var/spool/mail/virtual...I tried commenting out 'Mysql_Home_Field = home' in the authrc
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[15:01:36] <spiderbatdad> ok spoke too soon :P left off leading / in the concat...
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[15:16:04] <cpm> active_si, yes, if the mail bounces, it should bounce properly. that should not be interfered with.
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[15:34:23] <Haris1> Can postfix be programmed/configured to route mail out via a different public IP?
[15:34:29] <Haris1> or interface
[15:34:52] <f3ew> smtp_bid_address
[15:34:54] <f3ew> bind
[15:34:55] <Haris1> and do it round robin'ly between them
[15:34:57] <Haris1> hmm
[15:35:02] <Haris1> !smtp_bind_address
[15:35:04] <knoba> Haris1: "smtp_bind_address" : a configuration parameter in the main.cf: An optional numerical network address that the SMTP client should bind to when making a connection.
[15:36:32] <cpm> put a load balancer behind that IP address
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[15:39:24] <Haris1> http://www.postfix.org/postconf.5.html#smtp_bind_address
[15:39:31] <Haris1> does't tell much about it
[15:39:38] <Haris1> That's a good point
[15:39:50] <Haris1> any way I can configure a freebsd box having postfix to do it ?
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[15:44:47] * cpm wonders what the real question is.
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[15:46:21] <Haris1> The ideal/target objective is that postfix use multiple IPs to send outbound mail
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[15:49:30] <cpm> same server, multiple IPs? why?
[15:49:54] <cpm> hitting a bottleneck?
[15:51:41] <Haris1> hmm
[15:51:58] <Haris1> I wonder if we'r going to be marked as spammers for sending .5 - 1 million mails per day?
[15:52:16] <cpm> Only if it's spam.
[15:52:16] <Haris1> I'm talking, in case of legit opt-in mails
[15:52:17] <cpm> :)
[15:52:28] <Haris1> Ok, so one IP is enough for good business?
[15:52:34] <cpm> I've never seen a legit opt-in mail with that kinda distribution
[15:52:44] <cpm> but that's just me.
[15:52:46] <Haris1> microsoft's newsletters for example
[15:52:59] <Haris1> getafreelancer.com's new project match emails for example
[15:53:10] <cpm> Yeah, I never signed up for them, I get them, I click to opt-out, then a month or so later, they come back. Not legit, not opt-in.
[15:53:13] <Haris1> getafreelancer's mail goes to 40K people at one time
[15:53:22] <cpm> yeah, it's tricky.
[15:53:28] <Haris1> these are just an example
[15:53:35] <cpm> understood.
[15:53:47] <Haris1> so, I can throw out that many mails from one IP?
[15:53:50] <Haris1> ..in one day
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[15:54:22] <cpm> I suppose, that if you are in the position to be mailing out millions of emails commercially per day, then it's you who should be telling us how it's done, as you are the expert.
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[15:54:51] <cpm> The number per IP shouldn't matter. I know in reality it will. as many folks use greylists.
[15:55:21] <cpm> lemme poke at this a bit.
[15:56:35] <sphex> Haris1: the large webmails do get angry when you send too much mails from the same IP too fast. but you'd have to use a different EHLO line and make sure the reverse DNS matches too. otherwise, they'll just hate you more.
[15:56:58] <cpm> The way I would proceed, is looking at  bsd pf-based load balancing. Make sure I had MX records for the relevant 'internet side' of the load balancer, and point my postfix at it. Were that my concern.
[15:57:08] <sphex> if you try to use multiple IPs I mean
[15:57:50] <cpm> sphex, as long as the ehlo matches the A record, it shouldn't matter.
[15:58:01] <cpm> and you can have multiple IPs against a single A record
[15:58:28] <sphex> hrmm.. but is that safe with the anti-spams?
[15:59:12] <cpm> sure, why not?
[16:00:23] <cpm> but honestly, I don't see this as an issue.
[16:00:41] <Haris1> ok
[16:00:44] <cpm> he's gonna see a lot of 4xx, if he tries to pipeline,
[16:00:52] <Haris1> I can setup dns for 20 IPs or 250 IP against one box
[16:00:59] <Haris1> but, ehlo lines?
[16:01:06] <cpm> 250 IPs on the same box doesn't make any sense.
[16:01:14] <Haris1> I'v seen people want more
[16:01:29] <cpm> people also want to win the lottery, so what?
[16:01:36] <cpm> what does that have to do with anything?
[16:01:39] <sphex> Haris1: nvm that, it's probably not necessary
[16:01:43] <f3ew> Haris1 yes
[16:02:10] <Haris1> That's used as a metaphor. I wanted to say I have option to have as many IPs as I need to set on the box.
[16:03:45] <Haris1> ehlo lines, generally carry the same domain names. For example, if I'm sending 2000 mails to a single doamin, my box would most probably be using the same domain name in every 2000 attempts for example
[16:03:46] <cpm> I think you are trying to be overly clever. For your big recipients, gmail, hotmail, yahoo and the like, you'll want them to know who you are, if you are sending 10s of thousands of emails per day to them. That'll take care of that.
[16:04:04] <sphex> Haris1: when one of your IP connects to a remote SMTP server, it can either identify itself with its own unique domain (ex, mail123.blehh.meh) or all identity themselves with the same one (ex, mail.blehhh.meh). if they share it, you'd have to have mail.blehh.meh resolve to all their IPs.
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[16:04:16] <cpm> Haris1, if you are sending 2000 mails to the same domain, let the postmaster at that domain know what you are doing. That's called being a postmaster
[16:04:26] <Haris1> No, I'm just trying to gather, if I can fulfil requirements of a project I bid for
[16:04:37] <Haris1> to gather information+
[16:04:47] <cpm> I like the load balancer approach.
[16:04:59] <recon1025> indeed
[16:05:47] <Haris1> damn I hate having clients online on MSN
[16:05:48] <cpm> as opposed to the rubbing hands together 'ah, I have my IP address minions,, they'll never figure out it is me, ah hahahahah' approach to mass email. That' doesn't work.
[16:05:56] <Haris1> they'r always online and ready to ask Questions
[16:06:01] <cpm> Haris1, yeah, you'll need to talk to MSN
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[16:06:52] <f3ew> Haris1, you really need to learn about sending large volumes of email first
[16:07:13] <Haris1> f3ew: I agree
[16:07:52] <sphex> cpm: personally, I'm having trouble with mailings to yahoo with a newsletter with 3000+ yahoo recipients. it'll only accept ~200 a day. but that's with *muffled*'pid qmail and its non-existent queue scheduler.
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[16:07:59] <Haris1> I know I can setup postfix+mysql+postfixadmin+dovecot. so I can setup the mail server part
[16:08:11] <cpm> sphex, contact yahoo
[16:08:12] <Haris1> what I need to know is 'large volume' part
[16:08:32] <Haris1> daaaaaaaaaamned!
[16:08:36] <Haris1> only 200 mails per day?
[16:08:44] <Haris1> that's severely! constrained
[16:09:02] <sphex> Haris1: yeah, but you'd prolly do better with postfix.
[16:09:16] <cpm> sphex, let them know who you are. Yahoo/MSN/Google, et all have programs to deal with this.
[16:10:55] <sphex> cpm: hrm yeah.. I filled a bunch of their forms and got automated replies.. then filled more forms and got more form filling replies and.. I guess I'm waiting for an answer now.. :/
[16:11:19] <cpm> sphex, are you intimately familiar with http://www.maawg.org/about/MAAWG_Sender_BCP
[16:11:19] <cpm> ?
[16:11:42] <cpm> and yes, those wheels turn slowly.
[16:13:12] <sphex> cpm: ok, looks interresting. I'm gonna read that. but yes, it's a confirmed opt-in newsletter with ezmlm handling the bounces.
[16:14:34] <cpm> well, just be sure you are in compliance with all the sender best common practices, (and you probably are) and keep going through the channels, you'll get in eventually. The key is to do this *before* you start mass mailing. Believe me, all those 'message blast' punters know this.
[16:16:12] <Haris1> ok
[16:16:20] <Haris1> you mean if I enroll at snds @ microsoft
[16:16:25] <Haris1> I can send large volumes to hotmail?
[16:16:52] <Haris1> I haven't seen such an approach from google and yahoo
[16:16:58] <cpm> if you meet all the requirements to send large volumes, then yes. All these shops allow 'white collar' spamming :)
[16:17:06] <Haris1> Am I hitting the right spot with snds? :P
[16:17:06] <sphex> cpm: hehehe yeah.. doing before would have been good. :p but ok, thanks for the infos.
[16:17:43] <Haris1> combine domainkeys+spf with postfix+mysql+postfixadmin+dovecot
[16:17:46] <Haris1> that should be a good setup
[16:17:52] <Haris1> also adding reverse name mapped to IPs
[16:18:25] <f3ew> Personally, I would delegate the newsletter stuff to companies which do it professionallyu
[16:18:37] <f3ew> and I know most of the people I need to deal with
[16:18:39] <Haris1> f3ew: I am the man they are hiring to get it done professionally :P
[16:18:55] * f3ew notes the term companies
[16:19:05] * cpm == f3ew
[16:19:21] * f3ew wuold prefer to allow constantcontact or exacttarget deal with all the newsletter issues
[16:19:24] <f3ew> would*
[16:19:32] <sphex> cpm: btw, yahoo apparently likes domainkeys; is it pretty much the same thing as dkim? if I read about dkim and set it up, should it be compatible with yahoo?
[16:19:57] <Haris1> that's a good question
[16:20:03] <Haris1> what' the difference between domainkeys and dkim?
[16:20:06] <Haris1> I think they are the same
[16:20:17] <Haris1> yahoo started domainkeys
[16:20:24] <Haris1> sure! it would be happy with it :D
[16:20:33] <f3ew> Do you have the infrastructure to handle feedback loops
[16:20:34] <f3ew> ?
[16:20:40] <f3ew> Do you already have FBLs?
[16:20:52] <Haris1> the man hiring me will provide the infrastructure
[16:21:07] <Haris1> FBLs? == returned mail?
[16:22:02] <sphex> dammit. who would've thought sending freaking emails would be hard. :/
[16:22:08] <Haris1> I'll configure all incomming emails to be either 1) dropped or 2) delivered to 1 mailbox
[16:23:01] <sphex> I guess I shuold remove "sending emails" from my CV. I'm still keeping "wordpad and stuff" though.
[16:23:31] <Haris1> for incomming load balancer is not needed
[16:23:40] <Haris1> I don't see how a load balancer would help in outgoing
[16:24:17] <Haris1> !inet_interfaces
[16:24:17] <knoba> Haris1: "inet_interfaces" : a configuration parameter in the main.cf: The network interface addresses that this mail system receives mail on. By default, the software claims all active interfaces on the machine. The parameter also controls delivery of mail to user at [ip dot address]. If your server does not react to connection attempts on a certain interface you should check this setting.
[16:24:22] <Dominian> a load balancer fo rincoming email is definitely a plus
[16:24:34] <Dominian> especially for an extremely busy ISP
[16:24:40] <dragonheart> sphex: dkim and domainkeys are different standards. dkim is compatible with all email including yahoo. yahoo will eventally use it
[16:24:55] <Haris1> incomming = dropped (for the moment)
[16:24:59] <Dominian> aye
[16:25:05] <Haris1> outgoing is the only issue for this discussion
[16:25:06] <stockholm> its no additional efford to set up both instead of one though
[16:25:16] <Dominian> however, a load balance, configured properly can help with redundancy as well
[16:25:34] <Haris1> I understand, load balancer for incomming
[16:25:39] <Haris1> don't understand its role in outbound mail
[16:25:47] <Dominian> yeah.. that to me is a bit odd
[16:25:57] <Dominian> I don't think we use the load balance for outgoing, but we may..
[16:26:43] <Haris1> what's odd?
[16:26:51] <sphex> dragonheart, stockholm: ok. thanks.
[16:26:52] <Dominian> load balancer for outgoing
[16:27:15] <Haris1> so, how do we use multiple IPs in round robin fashion
[16:27:18] <Haris1> for outbound
[16:27:27] <Haris1> can I program value for inet_interfaces?
[16:27:29] <Haris1> like I can with exim
[16:27:43] <Haris1> I'm probably asking something that's not possible at this time
[16:31:27] <cpm> Oh it's possible, but again, the scope of your issue is much larger than you think, as we've attempted to explain. It *appears* as if you are dreaming that if you use multiple IP address, no one will ever know that you are sending out mass emails, this isn't the case.
[16:31:48] <Haris1> I understand they will
[16:31:53] <Haris1> I want to learn how to cope with it
[16:31:58] <Haris1> but that's the later part of the issue
[16:32:12] <Haris1> the first part is, if I can configure the box or postfix to USE multiple IPs to send mail
[16:32:59] <cpm> you cope with it by being a commercial service with pre arraigned agreements to send mass email to major ISPs that serve large communities of users
[16:33:04] <cpm> like all the big commercial shops do.
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[16:33:39] <Haris1> I did miss that part
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[16:34:04] <Haris1> agreements
[16:34:10] <Haris1> do they cost money?
[16:34:14] <cpm> usually.
[16:34:15] <cpm> sure.
[16:34:18] <Haris1> *ouch*
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[16:34:38] <f3ew> Lots of money, or none at all
[16:34:42] <cpm> spam is big business. hotmail was very upfront about this yeas and years ago.
[16:34:52] <cpm> yeah, exactly.
[16:35:11] <Haris1> I can see Microsoft is taking it that way, in the new captions. They are taking it that way right now
[16:35:14] <f3ew> I can send bulk to AOL or Outblaze or Google without paying
[16:35:14] <cpm> you can even buy your way into prioritized delivery
[16:35:26] <f3ew> but I can't guarantee inbox
[16:35:30] <Haris1> actually, its all opensource at this time :P
[16:35:44] <Haris1> f3ew: :o
[16:35:51] <Haris1> even with domainkeys + spf + maybe dkim?
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[16:36:50] <Haris1> I know the rivalry between yahoo and hotmail
[16:36:56] <Haris1> but why not inbox on other providers?
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[16:39:54] * f3ew knows the people involved
[16:39:56] <Haris1> :o the badly configured mail servers or spam detectors
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[16:45:58] <Haris1> Do SSDs give an advantage for outbound mail?
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[16:47:37] <sphex> Haris1: are you sure you aren't spamming?
[16:49:46] <Haris1> Yes
[16:49:50] <cpm> the 'easy' way, enter into a contract agreement with an outfit that already has all the contract agreements.
[16:49:53] <Haris1> I haven't even started yet
[16:50:24] <Haris1> are there any known third parties out there who already have delivery agreements?
[16:50:46] <f3ew> Yes
[16:50:50] <f3ew> I mentioned two
[16:50:50] <cpm> sure. check your logs :)
[16:50:54] <f3ew> Return-Path
[16:50:58] <cpm> outblaze for one.
[16:51:03] <cpm> doesn't outblaze do this?
[16:51:14] <sphex> Haris1: I guess SSDs could speed up how fast you can push your mails in the queue, but I don't think it'll be the bottleneck. at least I hope it won't. cause you're sending hell of a lot of emails if it is.
[16:51:28] <Haris1> No
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[16:51:35] <Haris1> the max I need is 6-12 emails / second
[16:51:44] <Haris1> .5 - 1 million mails in 24 hrs
[16:51:50] <Haris1> is not that hard, lol
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[16:52:58] <Haris1> I have a Xeon 2.4 GHz box, A Dell 2650 to work with
[16:53:01] <f3ew> no
[16:53:07] <f3ew> RP, CC, ET
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[16:53:19] <Haris1> RP, CC, ET?
[16:53:23] <Haris1> return path
[16:53:27] <f3ew> See names above
[16:53:30] <Haris1> that's a domain name to be valid in dns, right?
[16:53:32] <Haris1> CC
[16:53:32] <Haris1> hmm
[16:54:57] <Haris1> f3ew: I can't find CC or ET when I scroll up
[16:55:47] <f3ew> * f3ew wuold prefer to allow constantcontact or exacttarget deal with all the newsletter issues
[16:55:47] <f3ew> <f3ew> would*
[16:55:53] <f3ew> <f3ew> Return-Path
[16:56:30] <Haris1> wait a minute!
[16:56:35] <Haris1> err
[16:56:36] <Haris1> wait! a minute
[16:56:43] <cpm> yeah, constant contact.
[16:56:47] <sphex> Haris1: just google it :p
[16:56:49] <Haris1> I can start 10 postfix instances on the same box running on seperate IPs/interfaces
[16:56:57] <cpm> I like them a lot better than some of the others.
[16:57:18] <cpm> Haris1, and what would this do for you?
[16:57:28] <Haris1> that would randomize the IPs being used for outgoing mail
[16:57:33] <Haris1> if the inside sender
[16:57:37] <cpm> and what would that do for you?
[16:57:39] <Haris1> was using dns to lookup .. say
[16:57:54] <cpm> and what would that do for you?
[16:57:57] <Haris1> if the inside sender was using dns to lookup .. say mail.mydomain.com
[16:58:16] <Haris1> and 20 IPs were configured against mail.mydomain.com
[16:58:28] <Haris1> and I have 20 instances of postfix configure to a seperate IP/interface
[16:58:41] <cpm> you are still not getting it are you?
[16:58:42] <Haris1> that would randomize the outbound mail, since they will be using seperate IPs
[16:58:45] <Haris1> hmm
[16:58:56] <Haris1> that would ease the tension of bulk mail delivery to the same provider?
[16:59:02] <Haris1> in case I send those 2000 mails
[16:59:06] <cpm> how long do you think it would take, oh -say- someone like me to figure this out?
[16:59:16] <Haris1> 2 days .. max?
[16:59:18] <Dominian> are you a spammer?
[16:59:25] <Haris1> but if I'm not spamming
[16:59:31] <Haris1> that wouldn't matter, right?
[17:00:03] <cpm> if you are not spamming, why are you trying to obscure your origins?
[17:00:12] <Haris1> obscure?
[17:00:14] <f3ew> I could tell you someone who would be able to tell you how to do this
[17:00:15] <Haris1> I'm not obscuring
[17:00:20] <Haris1> I'm configuring them in dns
[17:00:28] <f3ew> She isn't going to be cheap
[17:00:29] <Haris1> proper dns confighuration
[17:00:43] <Haris1> f3ew: She?!?
[17:01:01] <sphex> whoa
[17:01:06] <f3ew> The consultant I know
[17:01:08] <Haris1> I'm setting up proper forward and reverse names in dns
[17:01:13] <Haris1> that's 1)
[17:01:20] * f3ew is not sure she would want you as a customer :P
[17:01:26] <Haris1> 2) I'm starting for example with 4 instances of postfix runnign on 4 IPs
[17:01:28] <Haris1> f3ew: Why not?
[17:01:37] <Haris1> already married/taken ? :P
[17:01:45] <Haris1> *evil laugh*
[17:02:03] <Haris1> 3) I configure the same address for incomming mail on one box
[17:02:15] <Haris1> so all postfix instances dump all incomming mail in one location
[17:02:21] <f3ew> Haris1, because of that
[17:02:25] <f3ew> and your lack of clue
[17:02:26] <dragonheart> grr - try to treat females as sometime more that relationship options on irc please
[17:02:41] <Haris1> 4) outbound mail will be randomized on seperate IPs, since the sending app would get a different IP from DNS for the postfix box
[17:02:42] <dragonheart> something*
[17:02:47] * f3ew isn't female and I am insulted
[17:02:53] <Haris1> oops
[17:02:56] <Dominian> I don't get why you want to randomize your IP address.
[17:02:59] <Haris1> dragonheart: I'm sorry!
[17:03:00] <Dominian> there's no true reason for that.
[17:03:03] <Haris1> that was just a joke
[17:03:12] <f3ew> Not funny
[17:03:31] <Haris1> Dominian: Isn't it obvious? I want to randomize the IPs, from which mail is delivered to targets?
[17:03:43] <Haris1> so they hit the limit on targets
[17:03:50] <Haris1> but .. maybe later than expected?
[17:03:59] <Haris1> say hotmail only allows 200 mails per day
[17:04:19] <Haris1> it may happen 2 hrs later?
[17:04:35] <Dominian> eh
[17:04:42] <Haris1> by which time I might achieve the target sending no.?
[17:04:42] <Dominian> I still don't understand the point of that.
[17:04:49] <Haris1> To be able to send more mails
[17:05:06] <Dominian> It still stounds to me like you're trying to by-pass throttling on big providers.. aka gmail/hotmail/yahoo
[17:05:07] <Haris1> for example, if I'm sending 2000 mails to gmail or hotmail or yahoo
[17:05:16] <Haris1> well, that's an example
[17:05:27] <Haris1> Its certain to happen that in .5 - 1 million email addresses
[17:05:40] <Haris1> some will be on the same domains
[17:06:04] <Haris1> what I'm trying to achieve is .5 - 1 million deliveries
[17:06:14] <Haris1> if that can be done with 1 IP
[17:06:16] <f3ew> Talk to the providers
[17:06:19] <Haris1> on which postfix is configured properly
[17:06:19] <cpm> sure they will. a lot of them will be on larger commercial services that will figure this out in minutes
[17:06:26] <Haris1> than I'll have less tension :D
[17:06:27] <Dominian> yep
[17:06:36] <Dominian> and you'll end up with a throttle on your entire subnet
[17:06:53] <Dominian> most providers shun the tactics you are speaking of
[17:07:09] <Dominian> So I wish you luck, albeit bad luck, in your quest to circumvent the system.
[17:07:16] <Haris1> well
[17:07:22] <Haris1> your wrong
[17:07:33] <cpm> in the worst case, your ISP will drop you for getting them blacklisted.
[17:07:45] <Haris1> I'm sure getafreelancer delivers more than 50K mails to yahoo, hotmail, gmail and other providers, on a daily basis
[17:08:05] <cpm> yeah, and they probably have a service agreement with yahoo also.
[17:08:18] <cpm> gmail/hotmail whatever
[17:08:40] <Haris1> Let me check snds for the volume that hotmail accepted from another company I setup the mail server for
[17:08:52] <Haris1> I think its a good bit higher than what I'm talking about
[17:09:29] <sphex> Haris1: yeah, but apparently they either got whitelisted or got some email guru companies doing the magick.
[17:09:50] <Haris1> sphex: You don't seem to call the non-whitelisted people spammers
[17:09:59] <Haris1> but I'm being marked as one, before I even start
[17:09:59] <Haris1> lol
[17:10:02] <Haris1> nice!
[17:10:05] <cpm> heh
[17:10:38] <Dominian> !submission
[17:10:39] <knoba> Dominian: Error: "submission" is not a valid command.
[17:10:43] <Dominian> !smtp_auth
[17:10:43] <knoba> Dominian: Error: "smtp_auth" is not a valid command.
[17:10:45] <cpm> not us, specifically, but if you don't proceed according to best practices, then you will. This thing of wanting to send via multiple IPs in order to defeat greylisting is very susepct.
[17:10:47] <Dominian> damn it
[17:10:52] <Dominian> ok which factoid is that?
[17:10:54] <Dominian> !sasl
[17:10:55] <knoba> Dominian: "sasl" : SASL is 'Simple Authentication and Security Layer', necessary for SMTP AUTH, and provided to Postfix by addin software. Cyrus SASL and/or Dovecot IMAP/POP3 can provide SASL. See http://www.postfix.org/SASL_README.html for details.
[17:11:15] <Dominian> ok that's the one
[17:11:18] <Haris1> Dominian: I don't understand. How does it apply here?
[17:11:29] <Dominian> Haris1: it doesn't
[17:11:32] <Dominian> I needed it for a friend.
[17:11:32] <f3ew> Haris1, because you insist on behaving like one
[17:11:41] <Haris1> f3ew: Nice!
[17:13:17] <Haris1> the west has a service provider for everything
[17:13:18] <Haris1> lol
[17:13:27] <Haris1> 'services'
[17:13:31] <Haris1> hmm
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[17:15:29] <cpm> Haris1, I don't run any big lists. My largest list has only like 5K subscribers, it's a true opt-in, as it's a mailman server. that said, I get throttled by gmail/hotmail/et al. But it's no big deal as by the end of the day, they eventually go through. had I a need to get much bigger, then no doubt I would have a commercial interest in doing so, in which case, I would contract the pros to make it happen.
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[17:16:03] <Haris1> cpm: Does it pay that much?
[17:16:27] <cpm> Haris1, it doesn't pay at all.
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[17:16:49] <Haris1> daaaaaaaaaaaaaamned!
[17:16:56] <Haris1> that reminds me, I still need to learn mailman
[17:16:58] <Haris1> shEEP!
[17:17:33] <cpm> mailman would be kinda week for 1m subscribers. i'm not aware of a mailman installation that large.
[17:17:48] <cpm> s/week/weak
[17:18:18] <cpm> 5 to 5K, maybe even 50K on a large setup, sure.
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[17:20:31] <Twinkletoes|W> the postfix FAQ mentions procmail and what to do if you want to use procmail for system-wide local delivery.  What if I only want to use it on a per-user basis... is a .forward file the way to go?
[17:20:32] <Haris1> damn
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[17:20:37] <Haris1> people are so worried about spamboxes
[17:20:56] <f3ew> Twinkletoes|W yes
[17:21:03] <Twinkletoes|W> f3ew: Thank you v. much ;)
[17:22:07] <sphex> what the what the what what the what.. I'm in the blackholes.five-ten-sg.com black list?!
[17:22:42] <Haris1> third party blacklists suck!
[17:22:44] <f3ew> Who still uses that?
[17:23:09] <sphex> I dunno.. I tried RP's senderscore thingy.
[17:23:12] <Haris1> I thought no one used more than 4 well known ones
[17:23:14] <Haris1> 4 is enough
[17:24:10] <Haris1> f3ew: I understand RP. What are CC and ET?
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[17:25:20] <f3ew> <f3ew> * f3ew wuold prefer to allow constantcontact or exacttarget deal with all the newsletter issues
[17:25:21] <f3ew> <f3ew> <f3ew> would*
[17:25:33] <Haris1> :o
[17:25:34] <Haris1> that
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[17:25:44] * Haris1 googles constantcontact and exacttarget
[17:26:08] <Haris1> do YOU .. work for them? o_O
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[17:27:05] <f3ew> no
[17:27:27] <f3ew> I merely know people there, or who used to be there
[17:27:28] <Haris1> someone told me of http://www.interspire.com/
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[17:30:12] <magyar_> hi, when virtual sql users are used for a domain, is the /etc/aliases files are being ignored?
[17:30:47] <f3ew>  aliases are only looked at for domains in mydestination
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[17:33:11] <magyar_> f3ew, and a virtual domain can not be in both mydestination and virtual_mailbox_domains
[17:35:45] <Haris1> Is there an easy way to monitor how many outbound are sent?
[17:37:11] * jelly guesses parsing the mail.log doesn't count as easy
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[17:38:41] <mark-use> hi all
[17:38:53] <mark-use> how can I add an autoreply for a complete domain?
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[17:40:24] <cpm> Haris1, pflogsum.pl
[17:40:47] <cpm> mark-use, bad idea
[17:40:58] <cpm> what's the real question?
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[17:41:31] <muh2000> hi
[17:41:51] <Haris1> cpm: Does it come as an extra 'port' on freebsd?
[17:42:13] <mark-use> cpm: why?
[17:43:00] <sphex> Haris1: /usr/ports/mail/pflogsumm
[17:43:19] <Haris1> :o that :p
[17:44:55] <mark-use> cpm: why and what is a bad idea?
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[17:51:43] <hesco> I'm being asked to write some code to add a header and build an email whitelist of recipient addresses from the outgoing email stream on a server.  Im guessing a transport could do the trick.  I'm not sure yet how much traffic this server handles.  If it is alot, is there some mechanism for creating and maintaining a persistent db connection in such a transport so that I can limit the overhead for this task?  Would it be necessary to insta
[17:51:43] <hesco> amavis for this, or might a short perl script listed as a transport in master.cf be sufficient?
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[17:54:10] <BuenGenio> hello all
[17:54:13] <BuenGenio> happy upcoming holidays!
[17:54:30] <roe_> humbug!
[17:55:29] <cpm> Haris1, no it's a simple perl script, google, download and use to yer hearts content.
[17:55:31] <BuenGenio> yes
[17:55:40] <BuenGenio> no
[17:55:41] <BuenGenio> maybe
[17:55:56] <BuenGenio> Celia Cruz said "Life is but a Carnival"
[17:56:13] <cpm> mark-use, autoresponding to * at domain dot tld will get you blacklisted as a backscatter host faster than you can imagine. Why would you want to do such a thing?
[17:56:16] <BuenGenio> gotta find your neutral space
[17:56:29] <cpm> it will essentially make you an open relay.
[17:56:40] <BuenGenio> question
[17:56:47] <hesco> Anyone have any samples for creating a persistent db connection for an email transport?
[17:56:49] <BuenGenio> i'm trying to set up DKIM for my domain
[17:57:58] <BuenGenio> i added the selector1._domainKey IN TXT ..... to the TXT record yesterday, but TXT is showing up as being empty doing a dig TXT domain.tld
[17:58:39] <BuenGenio> is it really empty, or is there a limit to how long the data in TXT can be_
[17:58:40] <BuenGenio> ?
[17:58:47] <BuenGenio> cos the key is almost 1kb long
[18:00:17] <mark-use> cpm: ;) no no..... if someone sends to  *@domain, he should get an aoto-reply
[18:00:43] <cpm> right, that's an effective email open relay.
[18:00:45] <mark-use> I have postfix installed, also have seen there is a transport file, but I don?t get how this should work
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[18:01:14] <cpm> mark-use, this will get you blacklisted.
[18:01:24] <mark-use> cpm, ok, there are about 8 mailaddresses, I could also use them without *@
[18:01:35] <mark-use> cpm: hmm, ok...why?=
[18:01:38] <cpm> I promise.
[18:01:43] <cpm> think about it.
[18:01:50] <cpm> senders are easily and often forged.
[18:02:32] <cpm> Anyway, what's the real requirement?
[18:02:52] <seekwill> Do people even know these days?
[18:02:55] <mark-use> I have 8accounts on the server, which should auto-reply
[18:03:06] <cpm> you have a domain, and everytime someone sends an email to that domain, regardless of whether or not it's to a legit address, you want to generate an autoreply?
[18:03:14] <cpm> Okay, I use yaa.pl
[18:03:14] <seekwill> lol
[18:03:14] <mark-use> so how can I manage this ( HTML-mail )
[18:03:24] <cpm> oh, no idea.
[18:03:30] <cpm> why html email?
[18:03:32] <mark-use> cpm: but I manage the account through mysql, no local users
[18:03:42] <cpm> I have no local users either.
[18:03:44] <mark-use> cause they want to send a HTML-mail ;)
[18:03:46] <cpm> I use yaa.pl
[18:03:56] <cpm> the autoresponder wants to send html email?
[18:04:15] * cpm walks away from a spammy sounding problem.
[18:04:25] <mark-use> those guys I have to install it for want that
[18:05:25] <seekwill> Did he explain the bigger picture?
[18:05:34] <seekwill> Or is he just a monkey?
[18:05:37] <cpm> not to me
[18:06:54] <roe_> your "client" wants an html email sent to everyone that sends them an email?
[18:07:20] <seekwill> How about provide some specifics on what is trying to be done?
[18:07:41] <cpm> seekwill, I *think* that roe_ has it.
[18:07:41] <mark-use> hey, I also fo not like this idea. but I have to do what the customer tells me
[18:08:03] <seekwill> mark-use: Actually, no you don't... :)
[18:08:07] <mark-use> hehe
[18:08:09] * cpm becomes mark-use's customer, tells him to go rob banks and bring him the money
[18:08:28] <roe_> no you really don't, we often say, "you don't want that, and if you do want that you will have to find someone else to do it"
[18:09:24] <cpm> I don't think it's wholly irrational. But there are commercial software products out there, and commercial services out there that do this. This doesn't sound like a mta or postfix specific issue.
[18:10:01] <roe_> how does it handle forged senders?
[18:10:36] <roe_> because I'm assuming those "commercial products" examine the headers not the envelope
[18:10:37] <seekwill> How do MLM handle double opt-in?
[18:11:22] <roe_> I would love to launch a reverse dictionary attack on a site that does something like that
[18:12:07] <seekwill> cpm: Agree, not really an MTA issue...
[18:12:37] <seekwill> But I still think it will be beneficial to get the "whole"  picture...
[18:12:50] <cpm> seekwill, I can guess
[18:12:55] <cpm> I expect you can as well
[18:13:07] <seekwill> Yeah, but I have better things to do :) Like play WoW!
[18:13:16] <cpm> the example would be calling a number to listen to pre-recorded sales pitch
[18:14:20] <seekwill> heh...
[18:14:29] <seekwill> That's what WWW is for
[18:16:08] <hesco> Any idea how to create a persistent db connection for an email transport on a high traffic mail server?
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[18:18:35] <cpm> hesco, lotta variables implied in your question.
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[18:23:33] <cpm> Landru seeks tranquillity, peace for all,
[18:27:16] <rob0> It is the Will of Landru
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[18:56:52] <muh2000> is there a way to configure a smtpproxy depending on the mail's destination?
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[18:59:24] <rob0> !transport_maps
[18:59:25] <knoba> rob0: "transport_maps" : a configuration parameter in the main.cf: Optional lookup tables with mappings from recipient address to (message delivery transport, next-hop destination). See transport(5) for details.
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[19:03:02] <muh2000> i c
[19:03:13] <muh2000> now to figure out how to set it up ^^
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[19:07:57] <muh2000> hmmm after a little thinking i guess that also does not remove my problem :/
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[19:13:36] <jangell> Is it necessary these days to support IMAPS / POP3S /  SMTPS and then TLS with all of those too or can I get away with just TLS?
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[19:36:11] <guingooc> Hi there. I have Postfix --> Amavisd --> Maildrop. My concern is to give orig_to to maildrop. Since I installed amavisd, maildrop can't get ${original_recipient} from pipe
[19:36:37] <guingooc> Have you any idea on how to do that?
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[19:58:57] <sysmonk> guingooc: you might turn off address mappings before amavis, and turn on after it
[20:00:11] <harlan> hey sysmonk
[20:00:37] <sysmonk> hey harlan
[20:00:59] <harlan> time for me to drive - bbl...
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[20:01:57] <spiderbatdad> wondering if/how well the compatibility plugin v2x works with change password plugin in squirrelmail
[20:02:41] <sysmonk> spiderbatdad: does it sound like it is #squirrelmail here?
[20:03:05] <keropok> i got address resolver failed... can somebody help me
[20:03:18] <spiderbatdad> sysmonk yes... "We talk about our mail servers."
[20:03:25] <sysmonk> keropok: ew, dns problems?
[20:03:39] <sysmonk> spiderbatdad: we talk about postfix. not 'our mail servers' :)
[20:03:59] <spiderbatdad> !motd
[20:04:00] <knoba> spiderbatdad: Error: "motd" is not a valid command.
[20:04:10] <spiderbatdad> :(
[20:04:13] <keropok> btw, i can ping google
[20:04:14] <sysmonk> you know, i can have postfix runing in vmware which is runing windows which is runing hyper-v inside which is runing freebsd
[20:04:30] <sysmonk> but doesn't mean we can talk about all of that because i'm runing my postfix on it
[20:04:47] <sysmonk> keropok: btw, did you read topic?
[20:05:32] <keropok> yup too long heh
[20:06:24] <VaNNi> how can i disable 2GB limit for mailbox?
[20:06:35] <spiderbatdad> sysmonk, anyway just quoting chanserv
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[20:10:55] <sysmonk> spiderbatdad: which part of the topic?
[20:11:53] <spiderbatdad> tois set aug 14...i suppose nothing else has been discussed sinc...basically stfu if you cant answer the question
[20:12:56] <sysmonk> spiderbatdad: oh my
[20:13:03] <spiderbatdad> !ohmy
[20:13:04] <knoba> spiderbatdad: Error: "ohmy" is not a valid command.
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[20:13:13] <spiderbatdad> :P
[20:13:14] <sysmonk> spiderbatdad: so, you're telling me to stfu because i'm not helping you with SQUIRREL mail which isn't part of postfix?
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[20:13:25] <spiderbatdad> not at all
[20:13:42] <spiderbatdad> just dont clutter the channel wi th harassment
[20:14:09] <sysmonk> just try to take a look who's cluttering the channel
[20:14:21] <sysmonk> it wasn't me who came to this channel and asked an offtopic question
[20:14:44] <spiderbatdad> i asked one question not expecting an answer...only hoping someone might have tested it
[20:15:01] <sysmonk> and i told you that this isn't a channel for this question, so ?
[20:15:05] <spiderbatdad> sorry for being off topic
[20:15:09] <rob0> Funny thing is, #squirrelmail actually does get answers.
[20:15:23] <rob0> You might have to wait a few hours, but they do reply.
[20:15:25] <sysmonk> rob0: who cares?
[20:15:25] <spiderbatdad> i asked on #squirrelmail
[20:15:33] <jangell> Is it necessary these days to support IMAPS / POP3S /  SMTPS and then TLS with all of those too or can I get away with just TLS?  Not sure what the popular mail clients these days support or don't support
[20:15:58] <sysmonk> rob0: but i run my postfix in vmware with windows and hyper-v in my virtualbox on freebsd, so i'll go to all those channels and just ask the question
[20:16:35] <sysmonk> oh, and by the way, my squirrelmail is runing on apache with proxypass to nginx which proxies to lighthttpd - so i'll go to those channels to, maybe they'll know it :P
[20:17:27] <sysmonk> jangell: many clients don't support SSL
[20:17:38] <sysmonk> so it's not necessary, but it won't do any harm
[20:17:48] <sysmonk> i always try to have ssl and tls
[20:18:11] <sysmonk> woops, many clients don't support TLS
[20:18:15] <sysmonk> not SSL
[20:18:22] <jangell> sysmonk:  If I understand things TLS runs on the standard port and STARTTLS fires up the encryption..whereas the SSL version would be on a special port right?
[20:19:03] <sysmonk> jangell: um, right... except that i'd offer to use a seperate port (submission) for tls in postfix
[20:19:23] <jangell> sysmonk: why is that (just curious) ?
[20:19:25] <sysmonk> but the default 25 would do fine too
[20:19:42] <sysmonk> jangell: submission is just for that, to submit mails from the clients
[20:19:57] <sysmonk> where you can offer other things like smtp auth
[20:20:25] <sysmonk> and, i.e., don't accept any mails if client didn't auth and didn't use tls
[20:20:40] <jangell> sysmonk: gotcha.  So I should do SMTP/TLS/SASL on port 25 and a submission port and then do SMTPS on a different port...and then do IMAP and POP3 with TLS and then do IMAPS and POP3S on a different port?
[20:21:22] <sysmonk> jangell: smtp(25), tls - submission (587), smtps - 465
[20:21:49] <sysmonk> and about imap/pop3 - i don't remember any pop3 client supporting starttls
[20:22:07] <sysmonk> i don't even know if that's a rfc thing and if pop3 supports tls ;)
[20:22:12] <sysmonk> i should take a look to check
[20:22:38] <jangell> sysmonk: do mail clients default to 587 for TLS/
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[20:24:04] <sysmonk> dunno
[20:24:15] <sysmonk> i think they do
[20:24:32] * sysmonk rarely configures mail clients
[20:24:38] <sysmonk> maybe once in a few years :P
[20:25:19] <jangell> sysmonk: Well..I'm trying to come up with a config that'll make the most sense across 15,000 users all using different operating systems and mail clients
[20:25:57] <jangell> sysmonk: it appears there is a POP3 command STLS
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[20:32:40] * cpm configures his sysmonk client
[20:33:35] <cpm> jangell, it's typical (and very strongly recommended) for port 587 to force/require tls.
[20:33:47] <cpm> and no, most mail clients *do not* default. They default to port 25
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[20:51:07] <SARGuy> i have messages coming in from a user in the system to a user in the system but it's an NDR for a message she didn't send...    This has happened a few times so far.  Any ideas how to better deal with this kind of SPAM
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[21:01:08] <seekwill> Pastebin unmodified headers and we might be able to help
[21:01:33] <seekwill> (though, you could change the username/local part of the legit users
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[21:11:15] <sed_> what file do I add/modify if I want all mail with invalid usernames to go to a specific persion?
[21:11:30] <sysmonk> luser...
[21:11:34] <sysmonk> i mean luser_relay :P
[21:11:37] <sed_> say if somone sends mail to info at bla dot com and info does not exist
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[21:11:50] <sysmonk> !luser_relay
[21:11:51] <knoba> sysmonk: "luser_relay" : a configuration parameter in the main.cf: Optional catch-all destination for unknown local(8) recipients. By default, mail for unknown recipients in domains that match $mydestination, $inet_interfaces or $proxy_interfaces is returned as undeliverable.
[21:11:51] <sysmonk> sed_: ^^
[21:12:08] <sed_> very cool thank you...
[21:12:24] <sysmonk> but note that this works only for local(8) recipient
[21:12:27] <sysmonk> recipients*
[21:12:54] <sed_> well I want it to go to a local user on the machine..
[21:13:01] <sed_> can I create a hash database?
[21:13:18] <sysmonk> of what?
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[21:13:45] <sed_> list of lusers to recive mail for whatever domains I host?
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[21:14:23] <sysmonk> sed_: you didn't listen to me then
[21:14:36] <sysmonk> or i understand you wrong
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[21:15:38] <sed_> wll I want a catch all, but I host more than one domain, so catchall for bla.com and for skipy.com would go to diferant local users.
[21:15:46] <sed_> wll=well
[21:16:28] <sysmonk> sed_: are bla.com/skipy.com virtual or local domains (are they in mydestination or in virtual_mailbox_domains)
[21:16:31] <sysmonk> ?
[21:16:53] <rob0> !tell SARGuy backscatter
[21:16:54] <knoba> SARGuy: "backscatter" : http://www.postfix.org/BACKSCATTER_README.html
[21:17:38] <sed_> they are local domains
[21:18:12] <rob0> !catchall
[21:18:13] <knoba> rob0: "catchall" : Sending all emails for non-existing users in domain to a special account. See man 5 virtual for the @domain syntax, which applies in virtual_*_maps and relay_recipient_maps. For local(8) delivery, unset local_recipient_maps and see luser_relay. WARNING: catchalls are rarely a good idea. Spammers will abuse them.
[21:18:17] <sysmonk> sed_: you can use expansions or catchall per domain
[21:18:39] <sed_> cool thank you.
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[21:24:56] <jangell> I accomplish smtps on port 465 with this option more or less right?   -o smtpd_tls_wrappermode=yes  ?
[21:27:54] <spiderbatdad> 587?
[21:28:17] <jangell> spiderbatdad: Well I have SMTP with TLS on 587
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[21:32:03] <spiderbatdad> oic it is 465
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[21:52:18] <Techdeck> hey guys, I'm using the PHP mail() function, I set the From: header to be the mail I want it to be, but for some reason, when it goes through my mail server, the mail server it goes to sees it as the real hostname and not the From:  -- is there some other header I'm missing that sets this?
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[21:53:34] <seekwill> php.net/mail tells you how to fix that
[21:54:55] <Techdeck> hmm, weird, I looked there.. didn't see anything interesting, lemme try again
[21:55:41] <Techdeck> ini_set('sendmail_from', 'me at domain dot com); -- oh that?
[21:55:49] <Techdeck> I don't use windows
[21:56:02] <Techdeck> will it work under linux as well?
[21:56:07] <Techdeck> you know what, lemme try?
[21:56:09] <Techdeck> sec
[21:56:28] <rob0> man sendmail
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[21:56:51] <Techdeck> still no go
[21:57:33] <sahil> php sucks.
[21:57:45] * Techdeck nods
[21:58:14] <Techdeck> no ideas?
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[21:58:28] <rob0> none at all ... totally stumped man!
[21:58:53] <rob0> Wow, you got a big one there. Maybe it's a bug.
[21:59:12] <Techdeck> ha ha. :)
[21:59:24] * Techdeck goes reading the sendmail manual
[21:59:30] <rob0> Now, go back and read, aha yes.
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[22:07:07] <jangell> php owns.
[22:07:39] <jeev> who uses sendmail?
[22:08:02] <rob0> php mail() uses sendmail(1)
[22:08:11] <jeev> i see
[22:08:20] <jduggan> heh
[22:08:33] <jduggan> which is a sendmail compatible binary.. not actually sendmail
[22:08:40] <jeev> yes yes
[22:08:45] <jeev> i thought someone was dumb enough to run sendmail
[22:08:46] <jduggan> (incase he wasnt already aware)
[22:08:46] <jeev> sorry
[22:08:51] <jduggan> kk
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[22:31:43] <eric2> what's the easiest way to setup an auto respond message (away message) with postfix.. .I'm using Maildir in the home directory for my users
[22:32:28] <sed_> so should luser_relay = sysadmin work to send all mail to non-existand users to user sysadmin?
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[22:42:03] <roe_> eric2, like a vacation message?
[22:42:15] <roe_> !vacation
[22:42:16] <knoba> roe_: Error: "vacation" is not a valid command.
[22:42:51] <roe_> you will get a few answers from this channel, the first being "don't"
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[22:46:39] <eric2> yes, vacation message, I'm using postfix + dovecot
[22:47:36] <seekwill> I let all the spammers know I'm on vacation and they can spam me after Jan 2nd
[22:50:13] <war9407> lol
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[23:01:51] <roe_> eric2, do you want end users to be able to configure this?
[23:02:28] <roe_> knoba should have a witty retort for !vacation
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[23:03:12] <roe_> eric2, and how many users and at what competence level?
[23:03:14] <eric2> if possible yes, that would be best so they quit calling me
[23:03:29] <seekwill> Outlook does it :)
[23:03:32] <Aleons> Who use roundcube mail ?
[23:03:38] <eric2> I'm using roundcube
[23:03:43] * roe_ hits seekwill with an exchange server
[23:04:02] <roe_> eric2, perfect
[23:04:04] <Aleons> eric2 i have a console in the webmail how can i desactive its ?
[23:04:06] <roe_> this is my suggestion
[23:04:10] <eric2> have the users send an email to themselves with vacation on/off
[23:04:30] <eric2> Aleons.. .console in the webmail?
[23:04:32] <eric2> what do you mean?
[23:05:19] <Aleons> look at
[23:05:32] <Aleons> at the front
[23:05:39] <roe_> 1) use dovecot's 'deliver' lda 2) write a sieve script that auto responds to any non-spam. 3) put that script in everyone's ./sieve/ folder 4)Install the sieve plugin for roundcube 5) show them how to toggle a filter on/off
[23:06:24] <roe_> you will also want to *not* respond to anything labeled "bulk" so mailing-lists don't get hammered
[23:06:28] <Aleons> and i have "* OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4rev1 UIDPLUS CHILDREN NAMESPACE THREAD=ORDEREDSUBJECT THREAD=REFERENCES SORT QUOTA IDLE ACL ACL2=UNION STARTTLS] Courier-IMAP ready. Copyright 1998-2005 Double Precision, Inc.  See COPYING for distribution information." when i'm connected
[23:07:09] <roe_> I think that is an acceptable option for a vacation message of sorts
[23:08:04] <eric2> looks good,.. now to only write the sieve script
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[23:08:52] <roe_> you can probably just symlink a "master file" into everyone's sieve folder so you can tweak it easily
[23:10:25] *** jeffspeff[A] is now known as jeffspeff
[23:10:25] * jeffspeff is no longer away : Gone for 9 hours 34 minutes 8 seconds
[23:11:26] <roe_> thanks for the update jeffspeff - I was just wondering how long as jeffspeff been away
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[23:11:59] <seekwill> Now that he's back, we can ask him questions!
[23:12:15] <jangell> roe_: do you want to know how long I've been away too?
[23:12:28] <jra> a/s/l? distribution? uptime? editor?
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[23:13:14] <jangell> jra: 21/m/ne - centos - high server uptimes are stupid - vi
[23:13:18] <roe_> jangell, you aren't nearly as important as jeffspeff
[23:13:20] <jangell> bored...
[23:13:29] <jangell> roe_: why is Jeff more important than me?
[23:13:35] <roe_> I dunno
[23:13:37] <roe_> ask him
[23:13:44] <jangell> jeffspeff: why are you so important?
[23:14:09] <seekwill> haha
[23:14:33] <rob0> My mommy told me I was important, but she didn't mean it.
[23:15:11] <jangell> well..lets see if we can get all 194 people in this channel to run postfix stop on everything they can
[23:15:14] <jangell> and then we'll see if we're important
[23:15:33] <rob0> oh I wouldn't be very important in that regard
[23:15:47] <jra> !rob0
[23:15:48] <knoba> jra: "rob0" : a pathetic bot that reacts to newly joined users with reciting the !basic factoid :)
[23:15:49] <roe_> I have a few medium sized installs
[23:15:58] <jra> :>
[23:16:05] <roe_> haha, that is true
[23:16:20] <rob0> The one on this host has a fairly active mailing list, lists.slackbuilds.org
[23:16:21] <cafuego> jangell: I don't have enough ram left on the wrt54g, sorry. Won't turn off radius.
[23:16:38] <rob0> so I'd probably hear a complaint within a few hours
[23:16:53] <rob0> s/hear/read/
[23:16:57] <jra> ah, slack... workman?
[23:17:01] <jangell> I have nothing production on Postfix right now.  So it wouldn't matter
[23:17:08] <roe_> rob0, slackware?
[23:17:10] <roe_> how retro
[23:17:23] <rob0> no, but Robby is a co-owner/admin of this server too.
[23:17:25] <jangell> but if I stopped qmail our phones would max out and people would be at my desk within a minute
[23:17:44] <roe_> I still have root at my old job :)
[23:17:47] <jra> I started with 9.x (and Dropline, gah)
[23:18:06] <roe_> they do about 10k messages a day
[23:18:20] <rob0> jra, I've been in Slackware since 3.6, which was my first Unix.
[23:18:23] <jangell> It is absolutely amazing to see how long it takes for clients to report an e-mail problem.  Always under a minute before we're bouncing calls
[23:18:36] <roe_> My first linux was debian woody
[23:18:49] <rob0> Generally SMTP errors take longer to detect/report than do IMAP ones.
[23:18:58] <roe_> yup
[23:19:11] <roe_> especially if they are using outlook, that outbox is sooo very helpful
[23:19:13] <jra> my first (own/private) unix was openbsd, 5 or 6 years ago. then slack, now arch.
[23:19:41] <cafuego> roe_: Outlook problems are invariably with outlook; not the MTA.
[23:20:43] <roe_> aye, but if the MTA is unreachable it shoves it in the outbox and more often than not can't be gotten out of the outbox
[23:20:54] <cafuego> correct
[23:21:38] <roe_> nice use of punctuation.
[23:22:33] <cafuego> Thank you, I just had it stuffed.
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[23:57:14] <Bullen> yo
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[23:57:43] <Bullen> i have a quick question, whats the best and fastest way to learn how to set up and administer postfix?
[23:57:59] <Bullen> any good websites or resources that i should check out?





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