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[00:22:54] <null> Hello, I have a little problem, I think that my mail setup is correct, but only with hotmail & gmail my mails goes to SPAM dir, any idea how can I debug that?
[00:27:18] <magyar> hi, what could this mean?  " MIME error: error: part did not end with expected boundary"
[00:30:35] <jra> a spammer failed, most probably
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[00:31:50] <magyar> my end sending
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[00:32:49] <jra> okay. mime parts should begin and end with the same boundary, that's all
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[01:46:25] <null> how can I change Received: from on postfix?
[01:53:48] <adaptr> change why ?
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[02:43:20] <null> adaptr: sorry
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[02:43:41] <null> how can I change that, if I send using dom.com goes to specific relayhost?
[02:44:23] <null> countrary at transport, instead of if it goes to goole.com then relayhost, I want if it goes from dom.com then relayhost
[02:44:28] <null> you know?
[02:44:49] <null> if comes from sorry
[02:44:51] <adaptr> err, no
[02:45:04] <adaptr> I can't makes heads nor tails of it
[02:45:26] <null> adaptr: do you understan my question? my english is bad
[02:45:50] <adaptr> no, I don't
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[02:46:38] <null> transport, if mail goes to google.com   relayhost
[02:47:01] <null> I want something like, if mail comes from dom.co (my other domain)  relayhost
[02:47:51] <adaptr> it makes no sense to me, however you rearrange your half-sentences... why don't you try stating FACTS ?
[02:48:09] <adaptr> you are running a postfix mail server, yes or no ?
[02:48:10] <null> is sender_dependent_relayhost_maps that I want?
[02:48:15] <null> yes
[02:48:24] <adaptr> I have no idea, since I don't know what you want :)
[02:48:31] <null> :)
[02:48:55] <adaptr> you have one or more domains that this server receives mail for , yes or no ?
[02:49:02] <null> if I 'spoof' some dome, like user at nomaindomain dot com then goes to specific relayhost
[02:49:11] <null> yes, more than one
[02:49:39] <adaptr> you alos allow one or more computers to send mail to the rest of the Internet from your server, yes or no ?
[02:49:42] <adaptr> *also
[02:49:47] <null> yes
[02:50:02] <adaptr> okay, we've established the most important characteristics
[02:50:25] <adaptr> and now, what do you want to do that is NOT like the setup stated above ?
[02:52:46] <null> adaptr:
[02:52:49] <null> I just want that
[02:52:52] <null> http://www.advogato.org/person/richdawe/diary/126.html
[02:53:00] <null> sender_dependent_relayhost_maps
[02:53:03] <null> seems to work :)
[02:53:12] <null> thanks anyway!
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[02:54:18] <adaptr> wow
[02:54:45] <null> adaptr: has sense for you now?
[02:55:44] <adaptr> no, of course not - oh unless you mean I should go and read that link ?
[02:55:51] <adaptr> I probably won't, as I don't need it :)
[02:55:54] <null> yes, if you want :(
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[04:08:28] <null__> hmm, why if I send mail as my local user like user at dom dot com  I am not spammer for gmail/hotmail and if I use anotheruser at dom dot com I am? any ideas?
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[07:29:34] <grandy> hello, i just compiled postfix with mysql support (I think) but when I run newaliases it seems to think mysql support is not installed... would any one be willing to look at my make args, etc.?
[07:30:40] <grandy> this is the command I typed to compile w/ mysql:  http://pastie.caboo.se/private/cq57uaoi5y30j1nf7fnjag
[07:40:42] <hparker> does `postconf -m` show mysql?
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[07:56:15] <grandy> hparker: nope
[07:56:55] <hparker> then you got it wrong :P
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[07:57:54] <grandy> hparker: :)  yeah ... strange, i thought I followed the directions I found for getting it to link with mysql... see my pastie if you have a moment
[07:57:55] <hparker> your compile line at least looks close to me, but i've not hand compiled much in quite some time
[07:58:18] <grandy> hparker: i wish i didn't have to... the solaris package didn't have mysql compiled in and I couldn't find one that does
[07:58:28] <hparker> my package manage compiles everything for me
[07:58:39] <hparker> ahh
[07:59:10] <hparker> I thought the docs covered that, let me poke around a bit
[07:59:35] <grandy> hparker: ok... btw i modified the make command a bit and still doesn't work:  http://pastie.caboo.se/private/kzxbiyfkparnr3jhujdn1g
[08:00:16] <grandy> hparker: thanks for poking around, appreciate it
[08:02:02] <hparker> looking at MYSQL_README that looks right to me
[08:03:02] <grandy> hparker: hmm... i wonder if there is any way to tell if the directories i included for libs and headers resulted in make finding the correct stuff...
[08:03:13] <grandy> oh wait
[08:03:18] <grandy> hparker: just noticed something
[08:03:34] <grandy> hparker: postconf -m does show mysql in the output
[08:03:49] <hparker> then you have mysql support
[08:03:58] <grandy> hparker: but when I type newaliases I get: postalias: fatal: unsupported map type: mysql
[08:04:33] <hparker> uhm... newaliases is just for the aliases file which is a plain text file
[08:05:33] <grandy> hparker: ahhh i thought i needed to run newaliases after changing to mysql for aliases...  doh
[08:06:34] <grandy> hparker: wow it would be great if it works now... :)
[08:06:49] <hparker> ;
[08:06:51] <hparker> ;)
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[08:08:24] <grandy> hparker: thanks much for the help... don't know how i missed seeing that mysql was compiled in... must have gotten spooked by the output of newaliases... :)
[08:09:05] <hparker> hehe
[08:09:23] <hparker> wait till you postmap files not needed and it throws weird errors ;)
[08:11:48] <grandy> hparker: ok, i'll keep an eye open for that one...
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[08:52:06] <grandy> hparker: hey if you happen to still be around, do you know the format of records for aliases when stored in mysql?  i tried the format of the aliases file and it doesn't appear to work
[08:52:28] <hparker> Not really, the only sql setup i've done i used postfixadmin for... it works so i didn't dig behind the scenes
[08:55:35] <grandy> hparker: hmm... initial googling hasn't surfaced any exact examples of what the table data looks like... I tried the following which works when it's in the text file but doesn't appear to be parsed correctly when in the db someone: /tmp/someone
[08:58:08] <hparker> might search the mailing list
[09:00:33] <grandy> hparker: oops figured it out,... dumb mistake
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[10:28:36] <grandy> hello... does anyone know what character separates messages when they are written to a file?  looks like \n\n but that also appears to separate the header and body.... is there any way to modify this?
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[12:39:59] <adaptr> what kind of file
[12:40:02] <adaptr> oh
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[14:56:54] <sadmin> any one works on body_checks in postfix
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[15:06:15] <sadmin> helo
[15:09:34] <adaptr> 450 relay denied
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[16:12:38] <Pazzo> hi @ll! I'm writing some kind of postfix/amavis log file parser for my special needs right now. For my tests I'm using a 3gb log file with logs from the last 3 days.
[16:13:44] <Pazzo> My current "script logic" is based on the assumption that the "client=" line is always the line where a semi-unique queue_id will appear first
[16:16:19] <Pazzo> somewhere around line 850000 (after successfully storing information for >200000 mails to db) my script stopped, telling me about a NULL message-id
[16:17:32] <Pazzo> I verified this and discovered, that in this special case the "cleanup -> message-id=" line appeared BEFORE the "smtpd -> client=" line
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[16:18:57] <Pazzo> can anyone enlighten me on this strange thing?
[16:19:39] <Pazzo> do I really need to expect such behaviour?
[16:19:51] <Pazzo> and: is there a way to avoid it?
[16:20:30] <rob0> Without seeing your log, I can't say for sure what happened, but I can tell you that smtpd(8) is not the only way for mail to come in. There's also sendmail(1), for local submission.
[16:21:21] <Pazzo> rob0: mail did come in via smtpd, problem is that in my log file the lines are switched
[16:22:08] <Pazzo> mx1/cleanup[32121]: 95D791030045: message-id=<...>
[16:22:11] <Pazzo> mx1/smtpd[32631]: 95D791030045: client=...[...]
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[16:22:28] <Pazzo> but only for one out of 200000 mails :-(
[16:22:36] <sadmin> Pazzo u work on body_check in postfix?
[16:23:01] <Pazzo> sadmin: no
[16:23:02] <rob0> In that case, apparently cleanup(8) managed to post its syslog entry a tiny bit faster than smtpd(8) did.
[16:23:07] <sadmin> i have done that is nay email come with a text in his body mohin raza will be blocked my postfix
[16:23:40] <sadmin> this is my expression    /^Subject: .*mohin raza / REJECT
[16:23:42] <sadmin> is this ok
[16:23:47] <Pazzo> rob0: yep. any idea how to avoid that?
[16:25:13] <rob0> I doubt there is any way to avoid it.
[16:25:14] <Pazzo> sadmin: should be ok
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[16:25:58] <Pazzo> rob0: shutting down 7 of this host's 8 cores may probably help ;o)
[16:26:15] <sadmin> but in logs i see message is passed on
[16:26:28] <sadmin> i wont see blocked or reject email
[16:26:35] <sadmin> what should it say in logs
[16:27:42] <Pazzo> sadmin: body_checks = regexp:... or body_checks = pcre:... ?
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[16:28:01] <sadmin> i did in main.cf as
[16:28:02] <sadmin> smtpd_recipient_restrictions =
[16:28:03] <sadmin>         check_sender_access hash:/etc/postfix/restricted_senders,
[16:28:03] <sadmin>         body_checks = regexp:/etc/postfix/body_checks,
[16:28:14] <sadmin> regexp
[16:29:25] <sadmin> is it wrong
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[16:30:22] <sadmin> i want to do it in body of email so is that regular expression ok
[16:30:30] <sadmin> see  /^Subject: .*mohin raza / REJECT
[16:31:14] <Pazzo> sadmin: Subject is part of the header
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[16:31:54] <sadmin> true
[16:32:59] <sadmin> ok i change it to
[16:33:02] <Pazzo> sadmin: do you need to look for "Subject: " in the body? (maybe if searching bounces?)
[16:33:08] <sadmin> see    /^mohin raza/i   REJECT Sorry, your message cannot be delivered successfulLy
[16:33:22] <Pazzo> otherwise header_checks should be what you may need
[16:33:32] <sadmin> no i want that name if that come in any email that mail will be rejected
[16:34:40] <Pazzo> sadmin: you don't like that guy, do you?
[16:34:43] <Pazzo> :)
[16:35:27] <sadmin> ya
[16:35:32] <sadmin> act my bosss
[16:35:38] <sadmin> see i did that
[16:35:59] <sadmin> how i confirm
[16:36:12] <sadmin> am sending email to myself with body mohin raza
[16:37:26] <Pazzo> sadmin: your regex says: reject if line is BEGINNING with "mohin raza"  (-> that's what the ^is used for)
[16:37:41] <Pazzo> try: /mohin raza/i
[16:37:44] <sadmin> oh
[16:37:45] <sadmin> ok
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[16:40:42] <sadmin> see logs
[16:40:43] <sadmin> http://pastebin.com/mf111db6
[16:42:07] <Pazzo> did postfix reread your new config? (reload?)
[16:43:54] <Pazzo> and: what does your etc/postfix/check_sender look like? are there lines doing other things than rejecting?
[16:45:12] <sadmin> wait
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[16:46:21] <sadmin> i have check_sender_access
[16:46:24] <sadmin> bot check_sender
[16:46:44] <sadmin> yup i did reload
[16:47:43] <Pazzo> you have "check_sender_access hash:/etc/postfix/restricted_senders"
[16:47:50] <sadmin> ya
[16:47:54] <Pazzo> what's written in that file?
[16:48:11] <sadmin> all users in this file can actually send emails to all domain
[16:48:49] <Pazzo> are you one of this "privileged" users?
[16:49:13] <Pazzo> if yes: the body_check DOESN'T affect you, as it will be skipped
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[17:04:03] <rom10> hi
[17:04:20] <rom10> how to check the queue emails
[17:04:54] <rom10> I am using postfix for relaying( only incoming)
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[17:05:38] <rom10> anybody there to help?
[17:06:06] <Pazzo> mailq
[17:06:37] <rom10> what is the meaning queue active in the log
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[17:26:56] <js_> can i somehow clear the queue of mail that are timeing out?
[17:27:43] <js_> theyre being sent incorrectly within my network
[17:27:50] <js_> and i know what the mails contain so they can be discarded
[17:28:55] <shasta> man postsuper
[17:31:59] <rom10> how to learn about different messages in the maillog
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[18:30:48] <sadmin> pazzo
[18:30:50] <sadmin> u there
[18:31:16] <Pazzo> more or less :-)
[18:32:13] <sadmin> thanks
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[18:32:20] <sadmin> sorry i got offline
[18:32:23] <sadmin> power failure
[18:32:27] <sadmin> hey
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[18:32:31] <sadmin> did u see logs
[18:32:34] <sadmin> what to do
[18:33:54] <sadmin> any idea
[18:34:17] <rom10> where are your logs, I am not sure If I can help you
[18:34:21] <Pazzo> sadmin:
[18:34:39] <Pazzo> <sadmin> all users in this file can actually send emails to all domain
[18:34:43] <Pazzo> <Pazzo> are you one of this "privileged" users?
[18:34:44] <sadmin> http://pastebin.com/mf111db6
[18:34:53] <sadmin> yes
[18:35:00] <Pazzo> <Pazzo> if yes: the body_check DOESN'T affect you, as it will be skipped
[18:35:11] <Pazzo>  sadmin hat (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) beendet
[18:35:32] <sadmin> yes i can email on all domain
[18:35:48] <sadmin> swhere Read error
[18:36:09] <sadmin> u mean if am on that list then in my case body_check wont work
[18:36:50] <Pazzo> sadmin: exact!
[18:37:06] <Pazzo> if you want them to work even then, you have to set:
[18:37:29] <Pazzo> smtpd_recipient_restrictions = body_checks = regexp:/etc/postfix/body_checks, check_sender_access hash:/etc/postfix/restricted_senders, ...
[18:38:00] <sadmin> ok
[18:38:26] <sadmin> well i remove my name from that list
[18:38:36] <sadmin> even my mail is sent
[18:39:41] <sadmin> hey
[18:39:51] <sadmin> am doing email from telnet localhost 25
[18:40:03] <sadmin> mail from:myadd
[18:40:08] <sadmin> rcpt to:myemail
[18:40:09] <sadmin> data
[18:40:13] <sadmin> helo mohin raza
[18:40:16] <sadmin> is that ok
[18:41:07] <rom10> hi pazzo
[18:41:38] <Pazzo> hi rom10
[18:42:13] <rom10> We are using postfix for relaying
[18:42:33] <Pazzo> sadmin: if you are doing it from an ip not listed in /etc/postfix/restricted_senders as "good" and submitting the mail with a . on a single line: yes
[18:42:45] <rom10> so emails comes first to postfix and then it relays to MSExchnagserver
[18:43:25] <Pazzo> rom10: it's always a good idea to put something in front of exchange ;-)
[18:43:29] <rom10> but if MSexchangeserver stop working then does postfix saves the emails in the queue, I am just confuse about it
[18:43:45] <rom10> yeah you are right
[18:43:54] <sadmin> i did body-check on top n reload it say warning: unknown smtpd restriction: "body_checks"
[18:44:27] <Pazzo> rom10: what's wrong about that?
[18:45:07] <rom10> I am just want to know where the emails are kept during the time exchangse server is down
[18:46:01] <Pazzo> rom10: depends on your distro - could be /var/spool/postfix
[18:46:14] <Pazzo> mailq show current queue
[18:46:32] <rom10> mailq shows incoming or outgoing too?
[18:46:40] <Pazzo> rom10: both
[18:47:11] <Pazzo> also mails that have been deferred or put on hold
[18:47:23] <sadmin> Pazzo
[18:47:30] <sadmin> its sending email
[18:47:33] <rom10> if suppose we delete the current queue will the the email in the queue are lost or sending server will again try to send the mail
[18:47:43] <sadmin> hey how i check that email on my mailbox
[18:48:52] <Pazzo> rom10: if your exchange goes down and postfix queues a mail for it, it will try to deliver it again and again within a configured maximum amount of time (default is 5 or 7 days)
[18:49:02] <Pazzo> after that period the mail get's bounced
[18:49:33] <Pazzo> if you manually delete the queue, mails are obviously lost
[18:49:55] <rom10> oh ok thx
[18:50:29] <rom10> question regarding relay server
[18:52:24] <rom10> finally mail is delievered between the first cource and final destination or relay server first receives it and then transfer to final destination mail server
[18:52:43] <sadmin> pazzo what to do
[18:52:52] <rom10> sorry about weird questions?
[18:53:07] <Pazzo> sadmin: get drunken - it's saturday ;o)
[18:53:18] <sadmin> come on
[18:53:21] <sadmin> am stusk
[18:53:24] <sadmin> stuck
[18:53:33] <sadmin> let it don then will be free
[18:54:11] <Pazzo> rom10: if I didn't missunderstand your question the right answer is b): your relay server accepts mail, queues it, and then tries to deliver it to exchange
[18:54:20] <rom10> ok
[18:55:07] <Pazzo> sadmin: please post your full config somewhere (mask out ips and domain names)
[18:55:22] <sadmin> ok
[18:55:24] <sadmin> wait
[18:55:43] <hparker> postconf -n is preferred
[18:56:54] <Pazzo> hparker: thnx!
[18:57:13] <hparker> A whole lot easier to read
[18:57:34] <hparker> Of course, I coulda just told him to read /topic :P
[18:58:21] <Pazzo> hparker: please do so ;-p
[18:58:46] <hparker> I've found the last part seems to trip people up badly
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[18:58:52] <rom10> what is the the meaning of postconf -n
[18:59:00] <hparker> run it and see
[18:59:27] <hparker> man postconf will tell you it shows the non-default values of your main.cf
[18:59:35] <Pazzo> hparker: that's what you meant by "last part" - isn't it?
[18:59:38] <Pazzo> :)
[18:59:47] <hparker> uh huh
[19:02:04] <sadmin> here Pazzo  http://pastebin.com/m43daa689
[19:02:09] <sadmin> main.cf file
[19:04:02] * hparker would suggest sadmin look at the cheatsheet
[19:04:14] <hparker> !cheatsheet
[19:04:15] <knoba> hparker: "cheatsheet" : http://jimsun.linxnet.com/misc/postfix-anti-UCE.txt : A HOWTO for pre-DATA spam control.
[19:04:57] * hparker would also suggest sadmin look at /topic
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[19:06:21] <Pazzo> sadmin: as told before I would first try to move your body_checks on top of your smtpd_recipient_restrictions - just to be sure that your "check_sender_access" doesn't play you some bad joke :)
[19:06:37] <sadmin> ok
[19:07:34] <Pazzo> hparker: didn't know that link - looks really well done!
[19:07:53] <hparker> nice tips there
[19:08:54] <sadmin> i did body check on top it says
[19:08:55] <sadmin> Nov 17 23:06:03 khi-ho-002 postfix/smtpd[19516]: warning: unknown smtpd restriction: "body_checks"
[19:08:56] <sadmin> Nov 17 23:06:03 khi-ho-002 postfix/smtpd[19516]: NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from localhost[127.0.0.1]: 451 4.3.5 Server configuration error; from=
[19:09:16] <sadmin> i wont do rcpt to it gives connection error
[19:09:30] <Pazzo> silly me
[19:09:33] <Pazzo> sorry
[19:10:05] <sadmin> what
[19:11:02] <goldsmurf> I've inherited a mail system.  Handling some 400 domains, 9000 mailboxes.  2 MXes, running postfix+clam+spassassin, 1 mail store box, running qmail+qmail-ldap+courier-imap, 2 outbound relay boxes, running postfix, and a webmail box.  the mailstore box has got a bad root filesystem, and is hobbling along.  I've put together a postfix+mysql mailstore box, wrote some scripts to pull the account info in and it's ready to accept mail.  Next is to
[19:11:02] <goldsmurf> rsync the maildirs and cut things over.  However, before I do that, I'd like the MXes to deliver to both the existing mailstore box and my new one, so I can make sure everything looks good.  Is there a way to do that?
[19:11:02] <sadmin> whats up
[19:12:02] <Pazzo> sadmin: why did you add your body_checks to your smtpd_recipient_restrictions??
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[19:12:10] <sadmin> then
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[19:12:43] <goldsmurf> can I do this at the mailer level or do I need to sneak it in at the network level?
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[19:13:01] <sadmin> where i put body_checks
[19:14:45] <Pazzo> goldsmurf: good question! I wouldn't know how to do so using plain postfix right now.... hmm
[19:15:10] <goldsmurf> yah me either.
[19:15:33] <goldsmurf> I *really* don't want to just cut things over.
[19:15:52] <goldsmurf> my monday and tuesday would likely end up totally shot.
[19:16:06] <sadmin> Pazzo where i add body_checks then
[19:16:18] <Pazzo> sadmin: simply in your main.cf - but not as a part of  smtpd_recipient_restrictions
[19:17:47] <jpalmer> goldsmurf: set your new box up as a backup MX. add a transport to send mail to the old mailserver.   when you're ready to make the cutover,  just change it from a backup MX to a virtual domain.
[19:18:06] <sadmin> ok
[19:18:07] <sadmin> wait
[19:18:16] <jpalmer> obviously, making the new box a higher priority (or only) MX in dns
[19:18:22] <sadmin> where i put at start or end
[19:19:44] <Pazzo> jpalmer: If I didn't missunderstand goldsmurf, he want's to deliver all mails to two mail storages - just to be sure that if something badly breaks on the new box, all mails that arrived in the meantime are also to be found on the old one
[19:20:00] <goldsmurf> yes precisely, Pazzo
[19:20:06] <sadmin> wow
[19:20:11] <sadmin> thanks man
[19:20:13] <sadmin> pazzo
[19:20:16] <sadmin> all good
[19:20:21] <Pazzo> sadmin: you're welcome!
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[19:20:28] <jpalmer> there isn't a way to do that via MX.
[19:20:33] <goldsmurf> yeah I know
[19:20:34] <sadmin> thanks alot man
[19:20:48] <sadmin> hey why i wont put that in  smtpd_recipient_restrictions
[19:21:05] <jpalmer> via MX<  you can setup failover (or backup MX)  but not have it deliver to "both"
[19:21:19] <sadmin> i read a how to i thought it was in that context
[19:21:29] <goldsmurf> I've already got the mail on my MXes, a pair of postfix boxes, which have been virus and spam scanned.  I then need to deliver the mail to two mailstores
[19:21:54] <goldsmurf> I'm thinking there's a some smtp proxy program out there I can dlever to, which will then do what I need
[19:22:06] <Pazzo> goldsmurf: we need some kind of "always_bcc" on a deeper level :-)
[19:22:11] <goldsmurf> kinda
[19:22:16] <goldsmurf> yep
[19:22:42] <jpalmer> the only thing I see resulting from such a setting,  is headaches, and complaints of duplicate messages, to be honest
[19:23:03] <goldsmurf> no user would ever access the new box while the old one was running
[19:23:05] <Pazzo> jpalmer: and duplicate bounces :)
[19:23:12] <goldsmurf> yes bounces are a concern
[19:23:14] <sadmin> ok me going power is gain going to offf thanks alot man
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[19:23:23] <jpalmer> goldsmurf: which is exactly what I mean by duplicates.
[19:24:19] <jpalmer> goldsmurf: if a user gets an email (to both) and checks his old account.  deletes it..  you decide you're happy and switch to the new..  he gets a duplicate email that hasn't been delivered
[19:24:42] <jpalmer> unless your 2 mailstores are NFS or some bastardized rsync setup.
[19:24:50] <goldsmurf> the new machine, befire going into production would have it's maildirs blown away
[19:25:11] <jpalmer> then what exactly is the point?
[19:25:27] <goldsmurf> and then the "old" machine would be taken offline, maildirs rsynced, and addresses taken over, and delivery resumed
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[19:26:28] <goldsmurf> because I'm attempting to replicate a qmail+qmail-ldap machine into a postfix+mysql machine.  I want to sit there and watch deliveries for a while before I cut over
[19:26:47] <jpalmer> whats wrong with the good oldfashioned low TTLs in your MX records?  set it down to a couple minutes. switch MX to the new box, make sure things work as intended.  if not switch it back (obviously, use softbounce on the new box)
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[19:27:25] <Pazzo> jpalmer: what about adding a new domain for your tests?
[19:27:31] <goldsmurf> theses aren't MXes
[19:27:45] <goldsmurf> yeah I've done a couple test domains
[19:27:52] <jpalmer> Pazzo:  I would assume the main testing has already been done, if he's talking about cutting over.
[19:27:56] <goldsmurf> which seem happy
[19:28:27] <Pazzo> goldsmurf: so where are your concerns? maildir migration?
[19:28:28] <jpalmer> goldsmurf: even better.  set softbounce, and have your frontend smtp servers change the transport temporarily.
[19:28:52] <jpalmer> if it works, great.   cutover,  if not, put it back.
[19:30:57] <Pazzo> is softbounce really needed? what about simply putting all inbound mail on hold?
[19:31:45] <goldsmurf> if you mean just letting it build up on the MXes for little while, that's what I'd planned to do when I actually cut over
[19:32:44] <jpalmer> Pazzo:  softbounce would be wise anytime you make config changes and aren't sure 100% they'll work.  stops legit mail from getting 5xx bounced due to admin error.
[19:33:56] <goldsmurf> ok yes - I would set softbounce on the new machine during testing, to prevent spewage
[19:34:08] <Pazzo> jpalmer: I think I missunderstood you - thought you suggested softbouncing ALL mail while cutover
[19:34:25] <jpalmer> no,  I meant set the "softbounce" setting to "yes"
[19:34:53] <Pazzo> ok, ok, I got it :o)
[19:35:54] <jpalmer> goldsmurf: I honestly think you're overcomplicating this.  if you've done the testing on other domains, and all looks good,  set softbounce,  and do a "trial cutover" for5 minutes.  have your frontends deliver to the new machine for 5 mins, then set it back to the old boxes.
[19:36:07] <goldsmurf> you
[19:36:17] <goldsmurf> 're quite possibly correct
[19:36:22] <jpalmer> check logs,  make tweaks as necessary,  and do it again.  lather rinse repeat until it works 100%, and then "just do it"
[19:36:59] <goldsmurf> what would do about mail delivered during the trials?
[19:37:15] <Pazzo> that's the point ;o)
[19:37:15] <jpalmer> if you do it all in a single day, or even over 2-3 days,  most of your customers won't even notice the "delay" in mails that got delivered on the new box during the 5 minute tests.
[19:38:04] <jpalmer> anyone who thinks email is instant, needs to be educated, IMO.   but if your super concerned,  setup rsync.    anything delivered to the new box gets rsynced the old anyway.
[19:38:06] <goldsmurf> hmm - I've got to rsync all the maildirs from old->new - most of these folks are using imap
[19:39:09] <jpalmer> rsyncing 5 mins worth of mail from the new machine to the old,  shouldn't take too long.
[19:39:11] <goldsmurf> then my concern is the mail delivered to the new box during testing...  I need to re-inject it, or make sure it doesn't get wiped out during rsync
[19:39:25] <goldsmurf> true that
[19:39:31] <jpalmer> ... rsync it back to the od box
[19:39:36] <jpalmer> old
[19:39:41] <goldsmurf> I don't knwo whay doing thatescaped my attention
[19:40:23] <goldsmurf> I would still then need to script some of these processes, and verify their operation etc.
[19:40:39] <goldsmurf> not too bad though
[19:40:45] <jpalmer> if you're going to do that though,  make sure you rm -rf /your/mail/store/*/new/* and cur/* before rsyncing the old to new, and doing the final cutover
[19:41:01] <goldsmurf> yes - that was the plan
[19:41:12] <goldsmurf> regardless of how it happens
[19:41:34] * Pazzo has to leave
[19:41:41] <Pazzo> goldsmurf: good luck!!
[19:41:50] <Pazzo> bye jpalmer, bye @ll
[19:42:22] <jpalmer> what I normally do in such a migration,  it the 5 minute "trial cutovers" like I mentioned.  rsynced back to the original box.  when I'm satisfied,  I do the HUGE rsync from old to new.  make the cutover, then perform a final rsync from old to new, to grab any mail delivered after the large rsync.
[19:42:30] <goldsmurf> but you can see my orig objective?  it would be nice to sit back and watch things happening merrily, then stop delivery, rsync, take over IPs, resume delivery
[19:43:32] <goldsmurf> but - I've not done this before on this scale - it appears you have.  I'll take your adivce to heart.
[19:43:39] <jpalmer> you don't need to worry about IP's at this point.  just change the transport IP in your frontend servers.  do your tests. change it back.  after thats all verified, you can do the rsync and swap the IP's
[19:44:23] <goldsmurf> no I know I don't worry about IPs if going your suggested route.
[19:44:38] <goldsmurf> that would only be for the final switchover
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[19:45:27] <jpalmer> right ;)
[19:46:28] <jpalmer> and yes,  I've done several large migrations.   I will say this:  the above is a general flow.   each migration has it's own specifiic oddities and tweaks.   you know your needs better than I do, so massage the technique as you see fit.
[19:46:59] <jpalmer> just, in my experience,  most admins make a mail migration much more difficult than it truly needs to be
[19:47:15] <goldsmurf> a little more background on why I'm so concerned: relatively complex switchover, going from qmail+qmail-ldap->postfix+mysql.  some account info is pulled in from one system (ancient rodopi box) and some account info from another (the webmail system), which I have munge up and present to postfix via mysql the way it wants it
[19:47:29] <jpalmer> (usually from pure ignorance of migrations in general, and the "what if I break stuff" factor.
[19:48:02] <rob0> If you already have LDAP set up and working, why not use it?
[19:48:19] <goldsmurf> the ldap is *only* for the mail system
[19:48:31] <goldsmurf> not like some lovely org wide ldap box that's humming along
[19:48:43] <goldsmurf> otherwise I would
[19:48:49] * jpalmer prefs not to have LDAP involved unless absolutely required, myself.  but it's a personal thing
[19:49:33] <rob0> Still, you could export your directory and move it to the new box. Just seems that the changeover is more complex than it needed to be.
[19:50:03] <goldsmurf> I went down that path for a half day.
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[19:50:41] <jpalmer> I would say, it sounds like you've already massaged your backend and authentication stuff into play.  I wouldn't focus on that at this point.
[19:51:09] <goldsmurf> yeah I put a bit of work into that
[19:51:47] <goldsmurf> jpalmer, thanks much for the input, really appreciate it
[19:51:54] <jpalmer> I've had to do qmail+mysql+vpopmail to postfix+postgresql+courier or dovecot several times.
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[20:32:50] <WindBack> If I install a postfix behind NAT, what consideration I have to have??
[20:33:03] <WindBack> fw of port 25
[20:33:11] <WindBack> and... else more???
[20:35:36] <rob0> !proxy_interfaces
[20:35:37] <knoba> rob0: "proxy_interfaces" : a configuration parameter in the main.cf: The network interface addresses that this mail system receives mail on by way of a proxy or network address translation unit. This setting extends the address list specified with the inet_interfaces parameter.
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[20:55:23] <WindBack> knoba, ok thanks
[20:55:52] <hparker> !rob0
[20:55:53] <knoba> hparker: "rob0" : a bot that reacts to newly joined users with reciting the !basic factoid :)
[20:56:09] <rob0> oops
[20:56:14] <rob0> !basic
[20:56:14] <knoba> rob0: "basic" : http://www.postfix.org/BASIC_CONFIGURATION_README.html : a good starting place for Postfix beginners, many common questions are answered here.
[20:56:19] <rob0> sorry
[20:57:07] <hparker> kthx
[20:58:27] <WindBack> rob0,     /etc/postfix/main.cf:      proxy_interfaces = 1.2.3.4 (the proxy/NAT external network address) this ??
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[21:03:37] <mfwitten> Hello. I want to automate notifications through email with the postfix sendmail interface; I don't care to receive email. I've installed and started the postfix daemon without further configuration, and 'sendmail -t' works. Now, because I don't care to receive email, I'd like to use a "fake" sender address. Fortunately, this is easy to do, but sendmail/postfix appends my server's hostname to the sender's name. Can I turn off this appen
[21:04:39] <mfwitten> I'd also like to mention that some kind of simple tutorial for laymen like me would be helpful.
[21:05:04] <mfwitten> (most docs assume people are admins who are intimately familiar with these systems)
[21:05:15] * hparker pokes rob0, fire at will
[21:06:34] <mfwitten> ah
[21:06:34] <mfwitten> append_at_myorigin
[21:06:41] <mfwitten> That looks interesting
[21:06:56] <mfwitten> fire at will? I hope that's not directed at me!
[21:07:45] <mfwitten> "This feature is enabled by default and must not be turned off.  Postfix
[21:07:45] <mfwitten>        does not support domain-less addresses."
[21:07:50] <mfwitten> That doesn't look so interesting!
[21:09:12] <mfwitten> must append_at_myorigin be 'yes' even for From: addresses?
[21:12:21] <mfwitten> Why do 200 people sit in the channel and not have anything to say?
[21:13:30] <mfwitten> Apparently RFC 2821 requires domains for all but special addresses
[21:13:41] <mfwitten> Surely someone here could have pointed that out earlier
[21:14:30] <hparker> I for one am chatting in several other channels as well as with family... As for your problem I think you're interested in mydomain
[21:20:08] <mark-use> mfwitten, I think the reason is, people here 1. don't care about real stupid persons, 2. don't care about helping spoofing, 3. you wount get an answer if you say something like: " without further configuration, and 'sendmail -t' works"
[21:21:34] <mark-use> sorry about point 1, that wasn't fair, but I think you know what I ment
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[21:29:50] <mfwitten> mark-use, you're kind of a jerk, aren't you.
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[21:37:48] <mfwitten> I'm going to assume that, as per RFC 2821, domainless sender address are not allowed (though I thought I've come across them). Thanks, hparker, for the suggestion.
[21:38:47] <Twinkletoes> My local domainname is different to the internet domain name to which I receive my mail.  Which parameter should I change in main.cf?  Is it 'myhostname', 'mydomainname' etc?  Is this what's called a virtual domain?
[21:44:32] <mfwitten> Twinkletoes, you probably want to set myhostname
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[21:44:46] <Twinkletoes> mfwitten: thank you :)
[21:45:16] <Twinkletoes> mfwitten: I set it to the same as my internet mail domain yes?
[21:45:43] <mfwitten> Well, first let me admit that I just started reading about this stuff, but that sounds right
[21:46:02] <mfwitten> Usually your computer should be setup with that information already
[21:46:16] <mfwitten> How come your local domain is different?
[21:46:51] <Twinkletoes> mfwitten: I'm using fetchmail to pull down mail from the internet domain (ISP), but the internal domain is not (and should not) be the same as an external one
[21:47:01] <mfwitten> ah
[21:47:15] <mfwitten> Then what you did sounds right
[21:47:33] <rob0> mfwitten: I was sitting here with my entire attention focussed on this IRC channel for 36 hours straight. You happened to catch me in my one short break.
[21:48:08] <rob0> Ask hparker, he will tell you.
[21:48:49] <hparker> You took a break?!?!?!?!
[21:48:51] <hparker> FIRED!
[21:48:53] <Twinkletoes> heh!
[21:48:56] <mfwitten> :)
[21:49:00] <Twinkletoes> hparker: Did you get the question?
[21:49:28] <hparker> !basic
[21:49:28] <knoba> hparker: "basic" : http://www.postfix.org/BASIC_CONFIGURATION_README.html : a good starting place for Postfix beginners, many common questions are answered here.
[21:49:37] <hparker> Twinkletoes: Look at that ^^^^^
[21:49:50] <Twinkletoes> hparker: Will do... thank you :)
[21:50:05] <hparker> And now I'll take my break... rob0, it's all yours again
[21:50:40] <mfwitten> knoba, hdparker: It's not just about configuring postfix. There is no real help for people who have no background.
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[21:53:50] <Twinkletoes> Well... after doing some reading, I _might_ need to configure 'hosted domains', but it's not clear from the READ_ME
[21:54:28] <mfwitten> Twinkletoes, you're just using postfix to send mail, right?
[21:54:41] <Twinkletoes> mfwitten: Erm... yes, but it will receive it from fetchmail too
[21:55:22] <mfwitten> You don't really need to change the configuration, I think.
[21:55:25] <Twinkletoes> mfwitten: Mail will be addressed to "myinternet.domain.com" but my local server has a domainname "myserver.local"
[21:55:42] <mfwitten> You can just tell postfix what email address to use as the sender.
[21:55:49] <Twinkletoes> mfwitten: So unless I let postfix know that "myinternet.domain.com" is kosha, then mail will be rejected
[21:56:11] <mfwitten> The myhostname variable tells postfix what to use when appending onto an address that is domainless, from what I understand
[21:56:17] <Twinkletoes> mfwitten: I was deliberating over the "final_destination" parameter... but possibly this is a hosted domain?
[21:56:46] <Twinkletoes> mfwitten: Tricky isn't it!
[21:56:58] <mfwitten> (actually, postfix uses mydomain, which is by default using myhostname)
[21:57:01] <mfwitten> Yes it is tricky!
[21:57:26] <rob0> No, Postfix is the MTA. A sender address is set in the MUA. < mfwitten> You can just tell postfix what email address to use as the sender.
[21:57:44] <mfwitten> right
[21:57:46] <mfwitten> sorry
[21:57:56] <rob0> But, some simple MUAs don't set a domain, and for those we have $myorigin.
[21:57:57] <mfwitten> You can tell "sendmail" or something what to use as the sender address
[21:58:00] <mfwitten> is that right?
[21:58:18] <rob0> You can indeed pass a sender address on the sendmail(1) command line.
[21:58:38] <mfwitten> So his mail client should send mail to the STMP server "localhost" and he should be finished.
[21:59:19] <Twinkletoes> rob0: Fetchmail is delievering mail to my server (postfix.local), mail which has a destination domain of (mycompany.com), so I need to let postfix not to reject the mail.  Quesiton  is, do I use "mydestination" or does my setup constitute a hosted domain, and therefore do I need to look at the virtual domain stuff?
[21:59:36] <mfwitten> ok. I completely misunderstood your trouble.
[22:01:32] <rob0> First off, this is not the kind of issue that would interest me. Second, I would not recommend fetchmail, but if using it, I would pass directly to MDA. Third, no, it would be far easier to follow !basic and set up local(8) delivery than "virtual domain stuff".
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[22:01:57] <Twinkletoes> rob0: Hey, ok - thanks :)
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[22:02:34] <rob0> Twinkletoes, see also !standard (you type the command to knoba.)
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[23:14:35] <sniper_david> hoi @ll from belgium
[23:15:21] <sniper_david> i hope somebody can help me with a problem what i have
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[23:18:20] <De_Mon> just found my answer nevermind :)
[23:19:13] <sniper_david> hoi @ll
[23:20:02] <sniper_david> i use this tut to configure postfix as virtual mail server
[23:20:03] <sniper_david> http://workaround.org/articles/ispmail-sarge/#mysql-virtual_domains.cf
[23:20:18] <sniper_david> but i can not use maildir ?
[23:20:27] <sniper_david> the mails send it wih mbox ?
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[23:39:25] <mfwitten> I would like to send administrative messages from my mailing list to members. I would like it to appear as though the message is coming from the mailing list itself (this is easily done by setting the sender). However, I would also like the To: field to default to something other than "undisclosed recipients:;". The variable "undisclosed_recipients_header" seems like the way to do this, but that is very general. Is there any other way?
[23:40:31] <mfwitten> In other words, I don't want to set undisclosed_recipients_header, because undisclosed_recipients_header is for the general case, any my situation is specific.
[23:43:17] <mfwitten> To be precise, I want the To: field to be the mailing list; this way people on the mailing list don't have to update there filters.
[23:51:30] <mfwitten> I should note that it is not an option to add the list as a member to the list.
[23:54:14] <mfwitten> This should be simple. I just want to set the To: field manually. Why is this so tough? No offense, but postfix seems to get in the way a lot.
[23:55:11] <rob0> Perhaps you should find a less intrusive MTA.
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   November 17, 2007  
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