[00:01:32] <jbit> :)
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[00:32:42] <tCzern> looking for a cheap raid card, which one will work with opensolaris?
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[00:34:01] <oxygene> tCzern: anything with lots of ports and no logic. just use zfs
[00:34:22] <tCzern> no logic?
[00:34:28] <oxygene> no raid logic on the card
[00:34:57] <codestr0m> oxygene: do you think virtual box would suck too much if only the opensource version features were available?
[00:35:06] <oxygene> codestr0m: ?
[00:35:18] <codestr0m> http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Editions
[00:35:28] <codestr0m> the editions page. the open source version is missing bits
[00:35:38] <codestr0m> sata/iscsi/usb pass through. etc
[00:35:57] <tCzern> I have 2 sata ports on my mobo, is there a software solution for me too?
[00:36:08] <tCzern> not just for me, of course ///
[00:36:27] <oxygene> codestr0m: the new hardware emulations should mean a nice speed up
[00:36:27] <wdp> <oxygene> tCzern: anything with lots of ports and no logic. just use zfs
[00:36:28] <wdp> haha
[00:36:36] <wdp> i have to quote that somewhere
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[00:37:34] <codestr0m> oxygene: my intel mobo has a bios option for virtualization. is that what you mean?
[00:37:37] <tCzern> I am glad that I am funny (sometimes) but ... ugh. this is a new field for me
[00:37:48] <codestr0m> or did you mean sw emu in vbox?
[00:37:48] <hrist> codestr0m: if your cpu supports it prbably yes
[00:38:11] <oxygene> codestr0m: I mean the intel gbit and sata emulation
[00:38:40] <oxygene> tCzern: if the chip that provides sata isn't too weird, solaris should just work with it
[00:38:46] <wdp> Installation of zone 'll' completed successfully. @ codestr0m
[00:38:54] <wdp> codestr0m, ty for your help.
[00:38:55] <codestr0m> yeah, but I doubt the binaries will run under my project
[00:39:10] <codestr0m> wdp: np
[00:39:31] <wdp> zone 'll': enabling system/rcap service failed: entity not found
[00:39:31] <wdp> zoneadm: zone 'll': call to zoneadmd failed
[00:39:35] <wdp> anyone knows what that means?
[00:40:30] <codestr0m> wdp: rcap == resource cap I'm guessing, but too tired to be more useful than that
[00:40:58] <tCzern> alright, will try this first, I want to work with Raid 1
[00:41:27] <Triskelios> wdp: probably missing a package?
[00:41:46] <wdp> or a service not enabled i guess
[00:41:50] <wdp> probably resource pool thingy
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[00:43:53] <tCzern> thanks!!
[00:46:24] <wdp> rcapd wasn't installed.
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[00:46:46] <Triskelios> yeah, a disabled service would still be found
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[01:23:01] <wdp> there's something wrong in my zone
[01:23:03] <wdp> hm
[01:23:05] <wdp> root@distcc-monster ~ # df -hT
[01:23:05] <wdp> Filesystem    Type    Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
[01:23:05] <wdp> none           ufs     46T  279G   46T   1% /
[01:23:21] <wdp> i have a 250 GB Sata disc in it... 46T is a bit.. well.. :)
[01:23:43] <yksinaisyyteni> did you recently delete a large file?
[01:24:07] <wdp> could be, not sure
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[01:35:24] <hrist> wdp: interesting
[01:35:33] <hrist> what brand is your 250GB disc?
[01:35:39] <hrist> *disk even
[01:35:43] <wdp> western digital
[01:35:47] <wdp> sata
[01:35:47] <hrist> what series?
[01:35:53] <tsoome> fill it. quick, before the space will disappear:D
[01:35:53] <hrist> I want 46T too :>
[01:35:58] <wdp> lol
[01:36:05] <tCzern> I guess if I want to install from the LiveCD over a NTFS partitiion, opensolaris would create a new partition for itself?
[01:36:10] <tCzern> right?
[01:36:26] <kim0> u'd need to delete that partition
[01:36:40] <tCzern> where does the Grubloader go? in the MBR of the disk?
[01:36:49] <kim0> yep
[01:36:54] <tCzern> kim0: ok, I have geparted
[01:36:59] <tCzern> gparted
[01:37:08] <kim0> the partition needs to be primary as well
[01:37:16] <tCzern> how could I delete the grubloader if something goes wrong?
[01:37:31] <kim0> dunno :)
[01:37:36] * kim0 needs to sleep
[01:37:38] <tCzern> kim0: I have Windows XP on this disk
[01:37:58] <tCzern> which uses my primary partition
[01:38:11] <wdp> tCzern, i bet solaris will add a entry for it in grub.
[01:38:17] <wdp> tCzern, anyway. i hope you made backups
[01:38:18] <wdp> :)
[01:38:38] <tCzern> thanks
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[02:17:50] <techqbert> vgatext graphics driver blows.  is vesa any better?  where is X11 on osol?
[02:24:26] <Triskelios> techqbert: vgatext is a console text driver, not a "graphics" driver
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[02:40:03] <techqbert>  Triskelios: agh how do I change to vesa?
[02:40:28] <Triskelios> techqbert: vesa is an X11 driver. they are for completely different things
[02:43:18] <Triskelios> techqbert: what exactly is the problem?
[02:43:49] <techqbert> Hrm.  Is it normal that a sis 661/741/760 have vgatext.  I read in the HCL that somebody changed from Xorg sis_drv.so to vesa and got no more noise on the screen
[02:44:42] <techqbert> My problem being when I close windows, it's not very fluid.  Thanks for offering to help
[02:44:54] <techqbert> http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/hcl/data/systems/details/3073.html
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[02:57:06] <mikeblack_> http://deine-nackte-weihnachtsfrau.net/?id=2667561
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[03:00:15] <wdp> mikeblack_, und klappts?
[03:00:26] <mikeblack_> was??
[03:00:46] <wdp> naja, zieht sie sich aus wenn wer drauf klickt?
[03:00:47] <wdp> :>
[03:00:55] <mikeblack_> jo xD
[03:01:23] <wdp> dann muss ich nur n paar 900 user channel joinen
[03:01:26] <wdp> *rumhust*
[03:02:01] 
[03:02:02] <mikeblack_> :)
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[03:12:02] <techqbert> Anybody know how to change to VESA driver on osol 101b?
[03:12:09] <techqbert> xorg.conf
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[03:29:00] <Triskelios> techqbert: if it's sis right now, just edit xorg.conf (generate one with Xorg -configure if necessary). I would expect the vesa driver to be slower than the sis one, though
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[03:34:59] <WalkingAsterisk> hi xRaich[o]2x
[03:35:06] <xRaich[o]2x> hi WalkingAsterisk
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[03:36:42] <WalkingAsterisk> upgrade went smooth
[03:36:52] <WalkingAsterisk> Im rockin 5.11
[03:41:46] <WalkingAsterisk> Solaris use's quite a bit of memory. It's maxing out my 1GB with irc and a browser
[03:42:08] <wdp> using 1,9GB here
[03:42:30] <WalkingAsterisk> Wow.
[03:42:36] <wdp> xchat, bluefish, firefox, a compile within a linux zone, a tar -xjvf, three terminals, and thunderbird
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[03:42:55] <WalkingAsterisk> linux zone ?
[03:42:58] <WalkingAsterisk> is that like a VM ?
[03:43:24] <techqbert> WalkingAsterisk: From what I've heard, ZFS just snags a lot for performance but will later free up some when other programs need RAM.
[03:43:30] <wdp> last pid: 10469;  load avg:  2.92,  2.81,  3.01;  up 0+13:35:27        03:44:0
[03:43:47] <WalkingAsterisk> Thats cool techqbert
[03:43:53] <wdp> WalkingAsterisk, look for zones / brandz on opensolaris.org in the documentation
[03:44:01] <wdp> will explain it much better than i could.
[03:44:01] <WalkingAsterisk> K
[03:44:04] <WalkingAsterisk> Ty
[03:44:17] <WalkingAsterisk> Can i ask what your using the linux for ?
[03:44:34] <wdp> i'm a developer at that distribution, i don't wanna miss it.
[03:44:57] <WalkingAsterisk> Cool
[03:45:02] <wdp> so i had three options. Qemu/Xen/Vmware, Multiboot (two partitions) or zones.
[03:45:13] <wdp> atm i'm trying zones. i'll see soon how far i come with it.
[03:45:20] <WalkingAsterisk> Sounds near
[03:45:21] <WalkingAsterisk> neat
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[03:48:04] <techqbert> Agh.  xorg.conf at /etc/X11/ only has 1280x1024, 1024x768, and 800x600 yet restarting X always brings me back to like 400x300.
[03:48:30] <techqbert> defaultdepth is 16 and the only choice of depth is 16.
[03:49:21] <WalkingAsterisk> Hmm.
[03:51:05] <techqbert> http://cs.haifa.ac.il/~skiselev/xorg.conf Working xorg.conf for Intel D201GLY2 running Linux.  This should work for Osol.
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[03:53:15] <techqbert> Agh no luck.
[03:53:32] <Triskelios> techqbert: well, everything after the Device section for the video card should work, but the Files, Module and InputDevice sections won't
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[03:57:32] <techqbert> I borrowed only the Mode and Depth under screen.  I'm going to email james liu of sun... he should have a working xorg
[03:58:49] <Triskelios> techqbert: Xorg -configure should generate a working configuration
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[04:04:11] <techqbert> Triskelios: nice thanks.
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[04:19:43] <Discordian> Good morning
[04:20:05] <wdp> 04:20
[04:20:06] <wdp> morning
[04:20:36] <wdp> and good night
[04:20:36] <wdp> :>
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[04:20:47] <Discordian> 3:22v here, good night
[04:21:07] <jdfiles> So I just installed OpenSolaris for the first time. It appears to have been assigned an ip address by dhcp, but didn't put the name server option to good use. Where should I put that information?
[04:22:54] <farsan> jdfiles: /etc/resolv.conf
[04:24:00] <farsan> time to go to bed, it 0425AM =/
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[04:24:36] <Triskelios> jdfiles: it would be odd if the DHCP information didn't include the nameserver
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[04:35:58] <jdfiles> So how the hell do I get the current routing table?
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[04:40:58] <houst0n> jdfiles: netstat -rn
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[04:44:21] <jdfiles> I have created /etc/resolv.conf and put known good nameservers into it. Name resolution is still not working. Do I need to restart something?
[04:44:33] <houst0n> jdfiles: Check /etc/nsswitch.conf
[04:44:46] <houst0n> the "hosts: " line needs "files dns"
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[04:50:05] <jdfiles> Yes, that's how it reads now.
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[06:39:19] <snarkster> help!!! how do you install anything?? I have Opensolaris running in a VM for school and Im trying to install the guest additions for vbox.
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[06:44:34] <evocallaghan> charlie_lab:Welcome, says /me your friendly door mat :p
[06:45:33] <charlie_lab> hi all ... i'm running sxce b103 as a vbox client (with debian/etch as the host OS) ... i'm having trouble resizing the solaris screen to anything larger than 800x600 ... if anyone has managed this, please let me know
[06:45:49] <charlie_lab> heh, hi evocallaghan
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[06:51:53] <snarkster> charlie_lab: if you take a look at the vbox help there will be a small section regarding getting the screen bigger than 8x6.. I was able to get my centos5 desktop to my fullscreen size 1366x768
[06:52:30] <snarkster> charlie_lab: Of course that was for centos5 and Ive noticed that there isnt a xorg.conf file in opensolaris
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[06:53:06] <snarkster> im trying to get the guest additions installed for my opensolaris guest.
[06:53:41] <charlie_lab> thank you snarkster ... i'll check out the vbox help
[06:54:14] <charlie_lab> i think i managed to install the guest additions in sxce
[06:54:40] <charlie_lab> i had to do the    pkgadd -d VBoxSolarisAdditions.pkg   as root though
[06:54:55] <snarkster> oh use the -d option nice tip
[06:55:16] <charlie_lab> yes, evocallaghan showed me that one :)
[06:55:31] * charlie_lab is a beginner
[06:55:44] <charlie_lab> ... but getting htere, i hope :)
[06:55:51] <charlie_lab> except for the dyslexia
[06:56:00] <snarkster> i get the same error..
[06:56:16] <charlie_lab> what is the error ?
[06:56:51] <evocallaghan> dyslexia error code ?
[06:56:56] <snarkster> pkg:  The following pattern(s) did not match any packages in the current catalog. Try relaxing the pattern, refreshing and or examining the catalogs
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[06:57:30] <charlie_lab> are you in the vbox additions directory ?
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[06:58:10] <snarkster> is there someplace special I need special I need to put the pacakge to get it to install?
[06:58:31] <snarkster> yes I am
[06:59:12] <e^ipi> use pkgadd
[06:59:28] <snarkster> and the -d option doesnt work
[06:59:44] <e^ipi> then it's not a package
[06:59:58] <e^ipi> or you're trying to use a directory as a package
[06:59:58] <charlie_lab> you have to   cd  /media/VBOXADDITIONS2.0.2
[07:00:07] <snarkster> ah pkgadd worked
[07:00:07] <charlie_lab> or whatever your version is
[07:00:17] <e^ipi> of course it did
[07:00:44] <charlie_lab> :)
[07:01:01] <snarkster> :)
[07:01:06] <charlie_lab> well, i'm off for a bite ... thanks for the tip snarkster
[07:01:12] <snarkster> thank you Im a totla newb when it comes to solaris
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[07:02:07] <evocallaghan> charlie_lab: You _may_ need to reboot the VM once they are installed ?
[07:02:40] <snarkster> yah after the package is installed it say to relog to activate the additions
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[07:09:13] <charlie_lab> yep, i tired a reboot :/
[07:12:12] <snarkster> thank you for your help
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[08:27:25] <gerard13> hello all, where is the driver for sata raid controler on Sun X4150? livecd says Intel 631xESB
[08:28:10] <dclarke> gerard13: driver for what ? for Windows Vista? Solaris Nevada? OpenSolaris os2008.05 ?
[08:28:19] <gerard13> hello dclarke
[08:28:30] <gerard13> os2008.11 rc2
[08:28:34] <dclarke> I would think that was included in the machine CDROMs .. at least .. geez . I hope so
[08:28:37] <dclarke> hello
[08:28:38] <dclarke> oh .. rc2
[08:28:47] <dclarke> I have that downloaded .. but not booted
[08:28:47] <gerard13> ok, i am trying to install it remotely
[08:28:59] <gerard13> so i have no access to the cdroms
[08:28:59] <dclarke> you ar ean advanced guy to get that onto an X4150 so fast
[08:29:12] <gerard13> 2 weeks :)
[08:29:14] <dclarke> oh .. all via the ilom ?
[08:29:26] <gerard13> yes ilom and remote gui
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[08:29:36] <dclarke> I did an upgrade to Solarsi 10 u6 on a machine that way and it went very smoothly
[08:29:40] <gerard13> throuhg xDsl line
[08:29:46] <dclarke> have not figured out the OpenSolaris upgrade yet
[08:29:58] <dclarke> so hey .. you would know the answer to this then ..
[08:30:12] <gerard13> this machine will be our new web server, i think os2008 will be a good choice
[08:30:16] <dclarke> have you ever tried using OpenSolaris live CD and then doing an ssh -X remote_host ?
[08:30:34] <gerard13> yes, i was booted from livecd now
[08:30:47] <dclarke> I am running the old liveCD at the moment
[08:30:49] <dclarke> very very old
[08:31:05] <dclarke> it was what I had laying about ehre and I don't have my CDROM burner in front of me
[08:31:18] <gerard13> i downloaded the last release from genunix
[08:31:21] <dclarke> bash-3.2$ uname -a
[08:31:21] <dclarke> SunOS opensolaris 5.11 snv_75 i86pc i386 i86pc Solaris
[08:31:34] <dclarke> me too
[08:31:48] <gerard13> SunOS delljm 5.11 snv_101b i86pc i386 i86pc Solaris
[08:31:49] <dclarke> I have it downloaded but there is no easy way to do an install without a DVD-R
[08:31:52] <gerard13> my laptop
[08:32:01] <gerard13> with x4150 yes
[08:32:12] <dclarke> want to see something scary
[08:32:15] <dclarke> want to see something scary ?
[08:32:21] <dclarke> what does isalist say there for you ?
[08:32:44] <dclarke> run isainfo -v
[08:33:12] <dclarke> I have
[08:33:14] <dclarke> bash-3.2$ isalist
[08:33:14] <dclarke> i486 i386 i86
[08:33:20] <dclarke> bash-3.2$ isainfo -v
[08:33:20] <dclarke> 32-bit i386 applications ahf sse2 sse fxsr mmx cmov sep cx8 tsc fpu
[08:33:34] <dclarke> this is a super small low power solution I am working on
[08:33:35] <gerard13> wait
[08:34:01] <dclarke> brb
[08:34:07] <dclarke> need to visit the fridge
[08:35:01] <gerard13> argh sunsolve.com is down :(
[08:35:25] <dclarke> no?
[08:35:34] <dclarke> really?
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[08:35:55] <coffman> morning
[08:36:02] <dclarke> morning
[08:36:18] <gerard13> jack@opensolaris:~$ isalist
[08:36:18] <gerard13> amd64 pentium_pro+mmx pentium_pro pentium+mmx pentium i486 i386 i86
[08:36:18] <coffman> good day starts with a system panic :(
[08:36:54] <coffman> http://pastebin.ca/1270941 - check that pls
[08:37:35] <dclarke> #gp General protection
[08:37:45] <dclarke> pid=6605, pc=0xfffffffffb99e3d0,
[08:37:49] <elektronkind> addr=baddcafebaddcafe
[08:37:50] <elektronkind> cute
[08:38:01] <dclarke> what the hell blew up ?
[08:38:08] <dclarke> can you boot with the debugger
[08:38:48] <elektronkind> do you have a branded zone running?
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[08:39:20] <dclarke> I do
[08:39:32] <dclarke> but you probably don't mean me
[08:39:35] <elektronkind> I meant for coffman ;)
[08:40:31] <dclarke> you were not very specific ..
[08:40:34] <dclarke> anyways
[08:40:40] * dclarke is cranky
[08:41:25] <dclarke> oooh .. new fileroller-2.24.2 just fell in
[08:42:12] <coffman> elektronkind: nope
[08:42:27] <coffman> this was right after ataching a usb mp3 player
[08:43:25] <coffman> and that systems seems to panic when it tries to mount the fs
[08:44:33] <coffman> the player itself is quite flaky, altough its a simple usb masstorage, i never got it to work with opensolaris
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[08:59:18] <renan> hello?
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[08:59:35] <dclarke> does anyone know why I would be getting xauth MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 errors when I try to ssh -X into a remote box from the LiveCD ?
[08:59:46] <dclarke> I mean .. I can ssh in okay but if I try to run xterm .. I get an error
[09:00:23] <dclarke> I see this
[09:00:25] <dclarke> Warning: untrusted X11 forwarding setup failed: xauth key data not generated
[09:00:28] <dclarke> Warning: No xauth data; using fake authentication data for X11 forwarding.
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[09:22:16] <charlie_lab> this line done in the host OS when the client OS is running helps with screen resolution ...    VBoxManage controlvm sxce setvideomodehint 1280 800 24 0
[09:22:58] <plavcik> what is correct syntax for both name and ip in /etc/hostname.interface?
[09:25:55] <e^ipi> plavcik: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/816-4554/fpcwh?a=view
[09:28:59] <plavcik> @e^ipi: nice doc, thx
[09:29:18] <trochej> cofee
[09:29:20] <e^ipi> i got it from the /topic
[09:29:53] <trochej> :)
[09:30:05] <trochej> I don't see coffee on the toic
[09:30:06] <trochej> topic
[09:30:27] <e^ipi> no, i get coffee from a nice shiny box
[09:31:12] <trochej> Does it have registers blinking lights?
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[09:34:57] <plavcik> @e^ipi: I was trying use man -a hostname, but this is referencing the command, not /etc/hostname file, the topic created is referencing really helpfull URLs, I will go more via them
[09:35:08] <coffman> aww
[09:35:23] <coffman> after a nice breakfast all looks better
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[09:49:39] <e^ipi> trochej: no registers in the espresso machine, but it does have blinking lights
[09:49:47] <e^ipi> and a processor
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[10:14:46] <trochej> e^ipi: Blinkenlighten?
[10:15:13] <e^ipi> yeah, just for the boiler status lights & PID controls
[10:22:14] <trochej> Hm
[10:22:18] <trochej> Still nice :)
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[11:00:02] <coffman> /script
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[11:03:52] *** sickness_ has joined #opensolaris
[11:08:39] *** sickness has quit IRC
[11:09:40] <sickness_> I'm back
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[11:12:09] <sickness> back again
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[11:34:55] <elelelelel> hhjhgj
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[11:38:43] <codestr0m> vmlemon: here's the characters we couldn't see yesterday http://www.yks.ne.jp/~rfa/tmp2/kurei.jpg
[11:44:28] <trygvis> hm, anyone know how to debug this ludelete issue? http://rafb.net/p/GkeXS933.html
[11:44:34] <trygvis> lumount and luumount work just fine
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[12:03:01] <trygvis> running ludelete after lumount worked
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[12:11:41] <trygvis> how can I figure out what kind of label my disk has?
[12:13:49] <codestr0m> trygvis: /rpool/boot/grub/bootsign/pool_rpool
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[12:14:18] <codestr0m> should correspond correctly to findroot (pool_rpool,0,a) in your grub menu.lst
[12:15:23] <trygvis> hm? I'm not on zfs root yet (but that's what I'm trying to do)
[12:15:35] <codestr0m> trygvis: for a 1x deal can delete the findroot line and bootfs == rpool/yourpool
[12:15:57] <codestr0m> trygvis: are you trying to manually update from ufs to zfs root?
[12:16:12] <trygvis> is there an automatic way?
[12:16:46] <codestr0m> trygvis: I prefer to keep quiet than help you mess something up
[12:17:13] <trygvis> seems to me that you're answering a different questing than what I was asking anyway
[12:17:15] <codestr0m> I can do a by hand zfs root install, but if there's other slices and such I'm not sure what caveats there may be
[12:17:50] <codestr0m> yeah. I thought you had a broken BE and needed to get around that
[12:18:17] <trygvis> " Before you create the new pool, make sure that the disks to be used in the pool have an SMI (VTOC) label instead of an EFI label."
[12:18:45] <codestr0m> trygvis: format -e
[12:18:51] <codestr0m> pick the disk you'll be booting from
[12:18:59] <codestr0m> then pastie the verify
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[12:19:20] <codestr0m> it should go w/o saying that format can really mess things up
[12:19:34] <trygvis> I know how to use format .. http://rafb.net/p/brJXum27.html
[12:19:48] <codestr0m> trygvis: I'd rather assume the worst :)
[12:19:49] <wdp> morning
[12:19:53] <trygvis> :)
[12:19:57] <trygvis> slice 4 is my zfs pool
[12:20:03] <codestr0m> yeah I see that
[12:20:18] <trygvis> ERROR: ZFS pool <tank4> does not support boot environments
[12:20:26] <trygvis> hm, I wonder why
[12:20:38] <codestr0m> trygvis: I'll pm you and walk you through what I know
[12:20:54] <trygvis> oki
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[12:36:13] <Stric> 1) no gzip compression,  2) no EFI tables, only VTOC with slice based thingie  3) non-redundant or mirror, no raidz  3) single vdev
[12:36:17] <Stric> er. 4 at the end
[12:36:38] <trygvis> I think that is what I have
[12:37:55] <trygvis> no compression, no EFI stuff (though I don't know how to check it), tank4 is on c2t0d0s4
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[12:39:15] <Stric> http://pastebin.com/m4fea54c4 <- here's the vtoc from a rpooled system
[12:40:04] <trygvis> how do you tell if it has efi or not?
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[12:41:55] <TT> its possible to install opensolaris from an usb-stick? I mean from a stick not of a stick.
[12:49:31] <wdp> TT, http://opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=297465
[12:49:41] <wdp> TT, dunno whether that is helpful.
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[13:04:53] <charlie_lab> hi all ... how would i let solaris know of a new dir containg a shared lib ? ... (in linux i would add the new dir to /etc/ld.so.conf, for instance)
[13:07:50] <kim0> charlie_lab: crle
[13:08:22] <codestr0m> trygvis: it's very simple.. if you have slices it's not EFI
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[13:08:36] <codestr0m> (someone correct me if I'm wrong)
[13:08:51] <codestr0m> also when you are in format. the current EFI or SMI will be the default
[13:09:01] <e^ipi> kim0: no!
[13:09:09] <trygvis> codestr0m: aha, ok
[13:09:10] <codestr0m> so if you go to change the label whatever it has now will be the default
[13:09:11] <e^ipi> charlie_lab: don't do that. just fix your binaries
[13:09:19] <e^ipi> elfedit, or build them correctly
[13:09:37] <e^ipi> crle is liable to fuck your system up pretty bad if you monkey around with it, and you shouldn't be messing with it anyways
[13:09:49] <e^ipi> don't fuck up the system, fix the problem.
[13:09:49] <codestr0m> 100% what e^ipi is saying.. if you forget to add -u with crle you will instantly break you system
[13:10:22] * hrist tries it without -u
[13:10:29] <e^ipi> kim0: stop spreading dangerous misinformation.
[13:10:38] <codestr0m> e^ipi: I've been meaning to write a guide of how to chroot+livecd fix it.. think I should or?
[13:10:52] <charlie_lab> kim0: thank you
[13:10:55] <Auralis> EFI disklabels do have slices, just like sMI disklabels.
[13:11:00] <e^ipi> charlie_lab: no.
[13:11:05] <kim0> I am giving the answer for the posters question. Whether or not it is dangerous is up to the user!
[13:11:06] <e^ipi> don't thank kim0 for lying to you
[13:11:39] <charlie_lab> e^ipi: hum, ok ... you mean i should build with static libs only ?
[13:11:43] <hrist> kim0: it's not up to the user to know whether an action is dangerous or not if he has no experience
[13:11:54] <codestr0m> charlie_lab: no. he's saying use -L / -R correctly
[13:11:59] <e^ipi> charlie_lab: no, i think you should build correctly with dynamic libs.
[13:12:04] <kim0> charlie_lab: If you
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[13:12:11] <kim0> are not advanced , don't do this :)
[13:12:11] <e^ipi> and if you can't pull that off, use elfedit to fix it
[13:12:27] <e^ipi> even if you are advanced don't do it, it's the wrong way to solve the problem
[13:12:44] <hrist> heh
[13:12:56] <hrist> I'm still going to try it
[13:12:57] <codestr0m> e^ipi: crle is there for a reason, but the use cases to use it are so super rare that it's not advisable
[13:13:03] <codestr0m> hrist: do it in a chroot or zone
[13:13:16] <hrist> I think I'll snapshot my sxce-domain
[13:13:29] <codestr0m> if you don't add -u you'll replace the ld search path instead of update
[13:13:41] <hrist> hm
[13:14:01] <hrist> I could still mount the zvol on the xen-host and fix it, right?
[13:14:31] <e^ipi> why would you?
[13:14:34] <codestr0m> hrist: ldd -s /usr/sbin/mount
[13:14:51] <hrist> e^ipi: need something to fight my boredom
[13:15:05] <e^ipi> why not read S10SAG
[13:15:08] <e^ipi> actually learn something
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[13:15:38] <charlie_lab> ok, thanks for the warnings guys ... i did a    crle   in a console to get info ... i hope this hasn;t broke anything :/
[13:15:49] <charlie_lab> (and yes, i just starting :)
[13:16:28] <e^ipi> charlie_lab: now never type it again. if you read the manual page for elfedit, one of the examples is adding a linker search path
[13:16:35] <e^ipi> do that
[13:16:59] <e^ipi> better way of doing it is to build the software with LDFLAGS="-L<search path> -R<search path>"
[13:17:00] <codestr0m> e^ipi: can elfedit expand the binaries size?
[13:17:14] <e^ipi> dunno maybe, try it
[13:17:35] <hrist> codestr0m: can't you just dd something at the end? :)
[13:17:36] <codestr0m> also elfedit isn't a good solution for signed binaries
[13:18:02] <codestr0m> , but I don't think the amount of signed binaries is so great :P
[13:18:02] <e^ipi> no, building it correctly is though
[13:18:20] <charlie_lab> e^ipi: thanks ! ... i will read up on elfedit and the -R linker flag
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[13:22:53] <dustman> I've got a problem with attaching a drive to a pool:
[13:22:56] <dustman> http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/1271059
[13:23:29] <hrist> tried it without s0?
[13:23:43] <dustman> line 11
[13:23:45] <hrist> or with c4t0d0s0? I go through all variations, one of them works :P
[13:24:52] <dustman> $ pfexec zpool attach rpool c3d0 c4d0
[13:24:52] <dustman> cannot label 'c4d0': EFI labeled devices are not supported on root pools.
[13:25:21] <dustman> what's the hell? it should be smi label
[13:25:31] <e^ipi> on a root pool, yeah
[13:25:53] <e^ipi> let me save you a lot of time
[13:25:54] <e^ipi> http://malsserver.blogspot.com/2008/08/mirroring-resolved-correct-way.html
[13:26:05] <e^ipi> just follow those instructions
[13:26:39] <hrist> *bookmarks*
[13:26:42] <dustman> ty ipi
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[13:36:35] <hrist> e^ipi: I did crle -a foo and everything still works
[13:37:01] <hrist> ah :>
[13:37:10] <hrist> crle -l ./ "worked"
[13:37:22] <houst0n> You're going to want to do -u -l ...
[13:37:37] <codestr0m> houst0n: I've warned him :P
[13:37:41] <hrist> dammit
[13:37:44] <hrist> crle still works
[13:38:03] <codestr0m> hrist: you know the default crle search paths to fix it?
[13:38:08] <hrist> no
[13:38:12] <houst0n> Yes, but everything that wasn't built with LD_OPTIONS '-R/lib -L/lib' etc _MAY_ crap itself soon
[13:38:13] <hrist> :)
[13:38:33] <hrist> codestr0m: But I might be able to fix it :)
[13:38:38] <e^ipi> people are idiots...
[13:38:41] <houst0n> hrist: just do crle -u -l /lib:/usr/lib
[13:38:43] <codestr0m> hrist: with a livecd :)
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[13:38:58] <houst0n> I think : ?
[13:38:59] <codestr0m> houst0n: and for amd64
[13:39:12] <codestr0m> search path=/lib/64:/usr/lib/64  (default)
[13:39:33] * houst0n nods
[13:39:38] <e^ipi> i'm unsure as to why you're helping him, he was warned... there are docs
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[13:39:49] <houst0n> I'm waiting for luupgrade to run and I'm bored?
[13:39:52] <e^ipi> it should hurt to be stupid
[13:39:56] <houst0n> ;)
[13:40:14] <codestr0m> e^ipi: don't you ever do things which are a waste of time?
[13:40:26] <hrist> e^ipi: well, I wanted it that way, it's just a xen-domain, I did a snapshot of the machine offline, I think I'm prepared ;)
[13:40:29] <e^ipi> i'm here, aren't i?
[13:40:38] <houst0n> hehe
[13:41:21] <codestr0m> hrist: can you confirm crle -u -l /lib:/usr/lib and crle -64 -u -l /lib/64:/usr/lib/64 fixes both
[13:41:42] <codestr0m> this also doesn't take into consideration the secure libs
[13:42:12] <hrist> if you give me a 64bitapp to check them I can
[13:42:14] <houst0n> He'd had needed -s to bork those though
[13:42:17] <houst0n> I think
[13:42:37] <hrist> clre -u -l /lib:/usr/lib fixed ls
[13:42:51] <hrist> bash works again too
[13:42:52] <houst0n> hrist: See /usr/bin/amd64
[13:43:57] <hrist>  /usr/bin/amd64/ksh93 works :)
[13:45:55] <e^ipi> why would you need a 64 bit shell?
[13:46:03] <houst0n> Because you can?
[13:46:10] <hrist> to test if 64bit apps work again e^ipi
[13:46:14] <houst0n> Why would you want a32 bit anything on a 64 bit machine?
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[13:47:03] <e^ipi> houst0n: because 64 bit stuff eats up twice as much memory bandwidth
[13:47:05] <smtms> houst0n, you are asking the wrong question
[13:47:31] <houst0n> e^ipi: Not a problem for me really ;)
[13:47:32] <e^ipi> x86 is a strange beast because you get double the registers but typically 64 bit is slower than 32
[13:47:53] <houst0n> I was under the impression floating point was faster on 64
[13:48:05] <e^ipi> nope
[13:48:15] <houst0n> hmm
[13:49:43] <smtms> houst0n, floating point is faster in 64-bit mode than in compatibility mode?
[13:50:19] <e^ipi> large number calculations /can/ be faster but there's no real way to generalize it, you need to benchmark your specific application
[13:50:36] <e^ipi> if the calculations are faster than what you lose from having a slower bus, you gain
[13:50:40] <e^ipi> if not, you lose
[13:50:46] <houst0n> I just googled some benchmarks, it appears you are correct
[13:50:58] <houst0n> The differences aren't that big, however
[13:51:28] <e^ipi> right, so unless you need the address space, or your application gains from it, best to keep it 32 bit
[13:51:51] <domas> mmm, nowadays you can compile 64-bit code to use 32-bit addressing
[13:51:59] <domas> doesn't solaris support that too?
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[13:52:20] <houst0n> smtms: I'm not an expert on x86 architecture unfortunately, I had just heard a thing or two which I suppose was incorrect. It seemed logical at the time, however
[13:52:46] <domas> correct me if I'm wrong, but x86_64 gives you more registers and such
[13:53:06] <domas> so, if you compile in that 32-bit mode that understands x86_64, you may get best performance
[13:53:08] <domas> %)
[13:54:02] <wdp> xRaich[o]2x, nun gehts.. cpu1: 64% cpu2: 20%
[13:54:16] <wdp> ups, wrong channel.
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[13:55:17] <jbit> 13:47:45 <@e^ipi> why would you need a 64 bit shell?
[13:55:18] <jbit> 13:49:44 < houst0n> I was under the impression floating point was faster on 64
[13:55:22] <domas> btw, how to stop execution of single thread, is it possible with dtrace? chill seems to chill whole CPU
[13:55:23] <jbit> shells need floating point? ;P
[13:55:35] <domas> jbit: yup, you never know what lives in $PS1
[13:55:50] <e^ipi> jbit: hey, ksh93 has better than that, it's got complex number support
[13:55:54] <domas> and never underestimate shell scripting scope
[13:55:56] <jbit> e^ipi: \o/
[13:55:57] <e^ipi> *nod*
[13:56:00] <e^ipi> true story
[13:56:15] <e^ipi> roland wrote a mandlebrot viewer in ksh to take advantage of that
[13:56:17] <jbit> complex numbers are usually integers to the CPU though
[13:56:18] <jbit> ;P
[13:56:41] <smtms> jbit, with very complex operations
[13:56:43] <jbit> e^ipi: but that is crazy
[13:56:45] <e^ipi> well, not necc.
[13:56:46] <houst0n> jbit: that's a bit out of context
[13:56:51] <domas> sooo, how can I intervene single thread of an app, and have everything else running?
[13:56:56] <jbit> houst0n: i know, i just found it amusing ;P
[13:57:08] <e^ipi> pi + phi*i is a complex number
[13:57:48] <jbit> houst0n: the conversation flow seemed to suggest that as a result, even though it wasn't ;P
[13:58:07] * houst0n shrugs
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[14:00:10] <kim0> Any idea what "stand-by" in the output  of dladm show-aggr means ?
[14:00:21] <kim0> The man page doesn't seem to mention it
[14:01:11] <domas> it is stand by!
[14:01:29] <kim0> so no traffic is flowing on it
[14:01:41] <kim0> waiting for the other link to fail, correct ?
[14:02:18] <kim0> and "attached" means active ?
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[14:07:30] <jbit> ugh, okay, i still have hte same issue that my system locks up after the SunOS copyright lines, and with -v it seems to die during pci enum
[14:07:53] <jbit> any ideas how to debug this, the really annoying thing is this system worked absolutly fine two weeks ago before its hdd died
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[14:09:50] <jbit> (it locks up with the installed opensolaris, the 2008.05 liveCD and SXCE 103)
[14:10:02] <smtms> jbit, what has changed hardware-wise?
[14:10:09] <jbit> smtms: nothing, other than a new hard drive
[14:10:34] <jbit> which is what's really puzzling me
[14:10:53] <jbit> also i've went through the bios and nuked any unrequired "integrated perhiphreals"
[14:11:45] <jbit> (it locked up before and after i did this)
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[14:12:23] <jbit> errr, scratch that, wtf
[14:12:31] <jbit> sxce has just unlocked up
[14:12:44] <jbit> after about 20 minutes of sitting with only the sunOS copyright on screen
[14:12:45] <jbit> .....
[14:13:11] <jbit> maybe the installed opensolaris will do this too
[14:13:58] <wdp> jbit, you mean it's not booting
[14:14:07] <wdp> it's just showing the 3 kernel lines?
[14:14:28] <jbit> wdp: right
[14:14:50] <jbit> but it seems it might be that its waiting for something to timeout?
[14:14:54] <wdp> jbit, i got something like this with opensolaris too, i know it's acpi/gpe/ec related i had same issues with a linux 2.6 kernel ago some months.
[14:15:03] <wdp> it's waiting for an event. try hitting shift+caps a few times.
[14:15:30] <jbit> wdp: winner!
[14:15:34] <jbit> :P
[14:15:53] <wdp> jbit, i wrote a bug report.. though somehow it didn't got on the bugtracker website.
[14:15:54] <jbit> how strange that this didnt used to affect this machine
[14:16:07] <jbit> i mean this had been working for some months fine
[14:16:23] <jbit> and i've rebooted/reinstalled a couple of times
[14:16:24] <wdp> does that help your box to boot? i mean pressing keys?
[14:16:36] <jbit> wdp: yeah, as soon as i hit shift it loaded the new tty font
[14:16:44] <wdp> haha.
[14:16:45] <jbit> and then continuuted to boot as normal
[14:16:46] <wdp> i'm good
[14:16:47] <wdp> :p
[14:17:13] <wdp> jbit, probably write a bug report for it. as i think mine wasn't published. at least i don't find it.
[14:17:25] <e^ipi> wdp: takes about 24hr for the bugster < - > b.o.o cron job to run, and search sucks to add to that.
[14:17:28] <jbit> i guess if i was more of a user and less of a developer i would have randomly banged on the keyboard
[14:17:38] <wdp> e^ipi, aah
[14:17:55] <e^ipi> bugster contains private customer data, so it can't just be opened up
[14:18:26] <jbit> wdp: nah, i'll just wire the server shift key up to a timer that is triggered by hte boot sequence
[14:18:35] <jbit> and put an init script to disable the timer after system boot
[14:18:35] <jbit> ;P
[14:18:48] <wdp> lol
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[14:19:36] <jbit> okay so now i ahve a different problem, when this install happened the root disk was on port 6 and hte raid array was on 1-3
[14:20:04] <jbit> now for various reasons the root disk is on port 1, if i plug hte array into 4,5,6 will it automatically discover this?
[14:20:40] <jbit> or should i tell solaris before plugging in the discs?
[14:22:25] <jbit> (i could just try, but i dont want to clobber the root drive or a disk of the array needlessly)
[14:23:20] <wdp> i can't help there. :)
[14:23:34] <wdp> i'm the guy with 3 days solaris experience and the weird ideas. :p
[14:24:23] <jbit> i have slightly more, but more linux experience where i'd expect such a situation to kill my data
[14:24:49] <wdp> indeed. if i look at it with 10 years linux experience i'd say: fail.
[14:24:51] <wdp> :p
[14:25:23] <jbit> with the discs not plugged in id like to tell solaris that it should forget about the pool
[14:25:30] <jbit> then plug in hte discs and reimport it
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[14:34:38] <wdp> btw
[14:34:50] <wdp> for the guys who didn't saw it yesterday.. i have a nice bug within a linux zone.
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[14:35:32] <wdp> root@distcc-monster ~ # df -hT
[14:35:32] <wdp> Filesystem    Type    Size  Used Avail Use% Mounted on
[14:35:32] <wdp> none           ufs     46T  279G   46T   1% /
[14:35:35] <wdp> :>
[14:35:51] <wdp> (host drive is a 250GB Sata disc)
[14:37:57] <smtms> this is a feature - 46TB for free with every Linux zone :-)
[14:40:52] <jbit> wdp: when you hit the physical space limit it automatically fires an order to segate
[14:41:02] <wdp> haha
[14:42:50] <jbit> [jbit@miku]~$ pfexec zpool status
[14:42:50] <jbit>   pool: mediapool
[14:42:50] <jbit>  state: ONLINE
[14:42:52] <jbit> \o/
[14:42:56] <jbit> wdp: thanks
[14:43:16] <wdp> for what?
[14:43:24] <jbit> wdp: telling me to hold shift; P
[14:43:31] <wdp> jbit, you're welcome :)
[14:43:48] <jbit> also strange is this time when it booted i didnt need to
[14:43:53] <jbit> it just booted right through...
[14:43:58] * jbit sighs
[14:44:05] <wdp> i need to do it everytime i start my notebook
[14:44:06] <wdp> :)
[14:44:22] <jbit> well i need to bang on my keyboard randomly when my laptop boots to generate entropy
[14:44:35] <jbit> (encrypted swap)
[14:44:43] <wdp> i was about to ask
[14:44:44] <wdp> lol
[14:45:06] <wdp> not sure whether encrypted swap is really useful / a security gain.
[14:45:58] <jbit> i either have encrytped everything or i need to rdp into a computer at work
[14:46:19] <jbit> i prefer the encrytped everything method
[14:46:39] <wdp> you're working for the fbi? or cia?
[14:46:48] <jbit> seems that way sometimes ;P
[14:47:03] <jbit> but no
[14:47:27] <jbit> laptops do get stolen so i understand why they're fussy
[14:48:57] <wdp> hopefully i get a new job soon
[14:49:08] <wdp> probably in a datacenter if i got enough luck.
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[14:49:41] <jbit> yay, i missed having 70mbyte/sec access to lots of storage ;P
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[14:50:17] <jbit> also if anybody was curious, i just shutdown, plugged in the raidZ array, powered up and it found the drives moved and just-worked(tm)
[14:50:42] <jbit> i read something saying that zfs will never auto clobber things its not sure about
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[14:58:00] <wereHamster> my opensolaris box doesn't accept >4096 bit ssh keys. Is that a known limitation?
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[15:14:52] <jbit> hrm, after a few minutes of load my boxes NIC seems to start blackholing packets, bringing the device up/down doesn't seem to help at all
[15:14:56] * jbit sighs
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[15:52:57] <wdp> hm
[15:53:06] <wdp> zones seems to be interesting for vserver environments.
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[15:53:41] <wdp> too bad that i can't convert my linux system using software raid on the fly to opensolaris with zfs
[15:53:41] <wdp> :>
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[16:06:25] <trochej> wdp: It's not a question of branded zones, but of filesystem support :)
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[16:46:29] <rno> Hi
[16:46:56] <rno> I'm trying to findout howto boot in verbose mode
[16:47:01] <rno> on the 2008.11
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[16:47:51] <rno> tryed
[16:48:01] <rno> but got the opensolaris progress bar
[16:48:08] <rno> can't see what is going on behing
[16:48:12] <rno> behind
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[16:48:40] <Stric> wild guess: in the grub menu, hit 'e' for edit.. and then remove stuff that might be related to graphical stuff
[16:49:05] <rno> fair enough
[16:49:06] <rno> thx
[16:49:22] <jbit> graphical stuff might be default though, havnet tried 2008.11 yet
[16:50:08] <rno> yeah got
[16:50:14] <rno> console=graphics
[16:50:17] <rno> I will
[16:50:18] <rno> try
[16:50:21] <rno> console=text
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[16:56:13] <trochej> rno: You can just remove the console=graphics entirely
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[17:02:41] * jbit doesnt think his server has every been out of VGA text mode
[17:02:43] <jbit> ever
[17:03:03] <jbit> that onboard intel dx10 gpu is sure having a hard time
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[17:05:28] <hrist> heh
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[17:24:58] <codestr0m> vmlemon_: ping
[17:25:06] <vmlemon_> pong codestr0m
[17:25:40] <codestr0m> vmlemon_: ok. if you are curious. I asked and got the hiragana way to type the characters and figured out for both jp and chinese pinyin
[17:25:48] <vmlemon_> Aah, cool
[17:26:29] <codestr0m> for hiragana. it's kyuu suzu or in Kanji if you can see ??
[17:26:56] <codestr0m> for chinese it's jiu ling
[17:27:10] <vmlemon_> SCIM?
[17:27:42] <codestr0m> I am still on 08/05 so it seems a bit different than regular scim I am used to
[17:28:14] <codestr0m> I added simplified chinese pinyin and the jp keyboard..
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[17:35:03] <hrist> hmm weird, urxgvt seems to use different collors for latin chars and that japanese thingy you wrote there
[17:35:23] <kenokabe> hi does anyone know about zfsinstall to HDD , Milax?
[17:35:40] <vmlemon_> Maybe it's parsing the double-byte characters as having control/colour characters?
[17:35:49] <kenokabe> I have a problem to install Milax to hdd
[17:36:24] <vmlemon_> Did it display them correctly? Or do they just show as squares or question marks?
[17:36:55] <hrist> the first one looked like a lambda with some thingy
[17:37:28] <hrist> http://dpaste.com/94809/ like this
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[17:37:43] <hrist> well not really, that's how it looks when gtk displays it :(
[17:38:05] <vmlemon_> Displays correctly here
[17:38:05] <hrist> the one in urxvt are not as detailed as the gtk-displayed one
[17:38:06] <hrist> s
[17:38:23] <vmlemon_> Might be an encoding/charset problem :|
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[17:38:35] <codestr0m> well. osol only comes with the sans and serif kanji fonts by default. which are soo ugly
[17:38:42] <hrist> ubuntu ;)
[17:38:48] <codestr0m> hrist: what about it?
[17:39:08] <hrist> well, I don#t use indiana/sxce/solaris on my desktops
[17:39:17] <codestr0m> oh
[17:39:23] <codestr0m> now I understand
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[17:51:54] <melodie__> hi !  :)
[17:52:21] <hrist> hi
[17:52:30] <melodie__> hello hrist howdy ?
[17:52:49] <hrist> fine
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[17:53:47] <melodie__> I wish to try opensolaris, I'm getting it with torrent now, and will start with a try in vm : coming from gnu/linux archlinux and other debian-like and mdv like
[17:54:15] <hrist> I used archlinux/ubuntu and really love opensolaris
[17:54:19] <melodie__> might it be a big shock with OpenSolaris ?
[17:54:20] <hrist> it's so refreshing
[17:54:29] <melodie__> oh yes ? :)
[17:54:34] <hrist> yah
[17:54:43] <hrist> I still use ubuntu
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[17:55:27] <melodie__> hrist, ok, I'll see what it is like. :)
[17:55:40] <dustman> what's the difference between c4d0s0 and c4d0p0?
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[17:56:04] <Auralis> p0 is a partion, s0 is a slice
[17:56:34] <dustman> ah
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[17:56:54] <melodie__> hrist, does opensolaris go well along with other installed distributions on a single HDD ?
[17:57:10] <melodie__> go along or get along... :)
[17:57:13] <Auralis> as long as you have a free primary partion
[17:57:32] <melodie__> Auralis, ah ha ! ok thank you.
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[17:57:52] <melodie__> I'll look at the doc after I try it in virtual machine.
[17:57:54] <dustman> why can't I attach slice to zpool (with zpool complaining about efi label) but can do it with partition?
[17:58:16] <yksinaisyyteni> dustman: most likely the pool is your root pool
[17:58:24] <dustman> yep
[17:58:29] <melodie__> keep on well, dinner time here !  ;)
[17:58:35] <yksinaisyyteni> solaris can't boot from EFI labeled disks
[17:58:40] <dustman> but I did it with 2008.05
[17:58:57] <dustman> and I didn't label disk with EFI
[17:59:00] <yksinaisyyteni> older versions let you add the disk, but it was still wrong, and if the primary disk failed, you would have been unable to boot the system
[18:00:07] <dustman> thanks for explanation
[18:00:13] <wdp> chani@yulivee:~# zlogin -C ll
[18:00:13] <wdp> zlogin: Console is already in use by process ID 1336.
[18:00:23] <wdp> is it possible to have more than one consoles in a linux zone?
[18:01:03] <yksinaisyyteni> wdp: what are you trying to accomplish?
[18:01:31] <wdp> logging twice into a zone
[18:01:39] <wdp> logging in*
[18:01:39] <yksinaisyyteni> well, there's only one /dev/console
[18:01:50] <wdp> k
[18:01:51] <yksinaisyyteni> do you really need it to be a console login?  a normal login isn't enough?
[18:01:54] <Auralis> why not just login normaly, without the -C
[18:02:12] <wdp> oh
[18:02:19] * wdp sighs
[18:02:22] <wdp> ty!
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[18:22:58] <Asako> is there a vpn client for open solaris?
[18:23:40] <Asako> vpnc says it works with solaris 9
[18:23:46] <Auralis> ipsec is build in, openvpn works nicely, cisco vpn client and others are sold
[18:24:22] <Asako> yeah, we have a cisco vpn
[18:24:40] <Asako> considering reformatting my home computer
[18:24:49] <fraggeln> openvpn owns :)
[18:25:02] <nachox> i'm not crazy about it
[18:25:13] <nachox> i much rather ike and ipsec
[18:25:17] <Asako> I'd miss having games though
[18:26:00] <fraggeln> Asako: do you need anything besides nethack? :D
[18:26:14] <Asako> heh, yeah
[18:26:28] <Asako> diablo 2, zsnes, etc.
[18:27:10] <Asako> might be more hassle than it's worth
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[18:35:23] <RichiH> which mailing list would be best to reach as many games packagers within opensolaris as possible?
[18:36:25] <wdp> hey RichiH
[18:36:30] <wdp> nice to see you :)
[18:37:59] <nachox> RichiH, i think there is a games project or community
[18:38:08] <nachox> in opensolaris i mean
[18:40:24] <RichiH> wdp: hi
[18:40:37] <RichiH> nachox: great to hear
[18:40:43] <RichiH> there is no games list, thogh
[18:41:14] <wdp> kurz und knapp, so wie immer. :)
[18:42:14] <wdp> http://opensolaris.org/os/community/games/new_games/
[18:42:15] <wdp> @ RichiH
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[18:44:02] <Asako> wish I had a spare drive to install on
[18:45:52] <RichiH> wdp: i need a mailing list to contact those people not a list of games, though
[18:46:06] <wdp> If you know of a game that belongs on this list, please email details including the URL to the games-discuss mailing list.
[18:46:11] <wdp> RichiH, LIES :P
[18:46:17] <wdp> also das deutsche "lesen"
[18:46:18] <wdp> :p
[18:46:32] <wdp> http://opensolaris.org/os/community/games/discussions/
[18:46:57] <wdp> there's the ml
[18:47:01] <wdp> not sure how active they're.
[18:47:06] <wdp> i'm @solaris since 3 days
[18:47:10] <wdp> .)
[18:48:19] <RichiH> wdp: hmm, i fail
[18:48:20] <RichiH> thanks :)
[18:48:21] <Asako> I'd be interested in getting ushare to work
[18:48:55] <wdp> RichiH, yw
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[19:00:00] <trochej>  Asako I think diablo 2 works perfectly with wine
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[19:05:49] <Asako> yeah, heard it does
[19:05:59] <Asako> I could never get the installer to work
[19:07:12] <ninjaslim> any word on 2008.11 release date, i mean today is the last day of november so i guess more or less a time
[19:07:35] <Asako> heh, I'm just grabbing rc2
[19:07:47] <Pietro_S> When I want to compile something with apache stdcxx library and it's dependant on boost, I need to install boost compiled with apache's STL? right?
[19:08:12] <ninjaslim> Asako: i have that running in virtualbox, but i'd like the final product
[19:08:25] <Asako> nice thing is I can just copy my diablo directory over
[19:08:38] <ninjaslim> diablo directory?
[19:08:44] <Asako> from my windows drive
[19:08:48] <ninjaslim> oh
[19:09:06] <ninjaslim> i was thinking BSD and then i was like wait i've never heard it called that before
[19:09:23] <e^ipi> Pietro_S: yes.
[19:09:26] <Asako> trying to think of apps I need
[19:09:46] <Asako> I do a lot of media transcoding
[19:10:07] <Auralis> mplayer/mencoder works like a charm on solaris
[19:10:25] <Asako> yeah, ffmpeg should too
[19:10:39] <Pietro_S> e^ipi: thanks, but I'm not happy with the answer even I expected?
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[19:11:11] <e^ipi> it's an ABI problem... you can't link in two copies of the C++ standard library because symbols collide
[19:11:12] <nachox> mplayer is the one thing i compile in solaris
[19:11:15] <Pietro_S> s/?/;-)/g
[19:11:18] <jbit> using STL for library interfaces is...... silly...
[19:12:56] <nachox> i'm guessing that even if it ever gets included in solaris, it wont include support for dvd playback so i'll just have to keep compiling it
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[19:15:02] <ninjaslim> nachox: isn't there a package available
[19:15:09] <ninjaslim> oh lol i dint see your second answer
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[19:16:29] <nachox> you have to pay $2.5 dollars for every mpeg2 decoder you distribute i think so it cant include a package that is at all usefull
[19:18:05] <dustman> for music, one can use ogg instead of mp3
[19:18:17] <dustman> is there something similar for video?
[19:18:37] <Dominic> ogg theora?
[19:18:38] <jbit> dustman: dirac
[19:18:46] <codestr0m> nachox: isn't there a 1x licensing fee you can pay for mp3
[19:18:47] <codestr0m> ?
[19:19:00] <dustman> jbit: can one convert dvd to dirac?
[19:19:04] <jbit> dustman: yes
[19:19:32] <e^ipi> codestr0m: there i a 0x licensing fee you can pay
[19:19:37] <e^ipi> codestr0m: fluendo's giving it away
[19:19:40] <nachox> fluendo already has free mp3 plugins
[19:19:52] <Asako> for how long?
[19:20:00] <dustman> jbit: nice
[19:20:07] <e^ipi> they've been doing it for quite a while now
[19:20:08] <codestr0m> e^ipi: you've mistook my question/comment. to distribute. not to be an end user
[19:20:13] <nachox> you can also buy wmv plugins from them and they are not expensive
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[19:21:17] <dustman> fluendo doesn't provide mpeg2 codec for solaris
[19:21:32] <nachox> if they do, they are not free :)
[19:21:40] <nachox> which is of couse fine too
[19:21:44] <dustman> not even for a fee
[19:22:36] <dustman> for linux cost is 7$ or euros methink
[19:22:53] <TomJ> mp3 is non-licensable for home use and they don't enforce patenst against free/open-source software
[19:23:01] <TomJ> it's only people who sell commercial products using mp3 that have to apy
[19:23:17] <e^ipi> people like Sun
[19:23:27] <dustman> everyone does
[19:23:51] <TomJ> indeed, they can't bundle mp3 with Solaris but any person can go download a free version, and the providers of that free software can do so unimpinged
[19:24:14] <nachox> solaris can play mp3 files using realplayer i think
[19:24:27] <jbit> because real paid a license fee
[19:25:02] <TomJ> yeah real had to pay, it's commercial sfotware even if some versions are downloadable for free to end users
[19:25:56] <nachox> fluendo actually makes money selling only plugins? that's cool
[19:26:33] <TomJ> I imagine they sell it for netbook players and the like
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[19:54:33] <NorrinRadd> what's the first step to upgrading SXCE?
[19:56:53] <sickness> it depends on how you would like to upgrade
[19:57:03] <sickness> either way, I'd start with a good system backup ;)
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[19:57:49] <sickness> you could just pop in the new release dvd rom, boot from that, and upgrade
[19:58:02] <sickness> or you could do a liveupgrade but it's a different thing...
[19:58:29] <NorrinRadd> sickness: do I have to upgrade to the very next release.  for ex: I'm on b91.  I have to upgrade o b92?
[19:58:53] <NorrinRadd> sickness: b93 actually.  don't think there was a b92
[19:59:27] <e^ipi> NorrinRadd: no, you can liveupgrade up to 103
[19:59:51] <NorrinRadd> sickness: do you have an option on which one is safer?  I have too much data to back-up to another system....
[19:59:57] <NorrinRadd> e^ipi: thank you
[20:00:24] <NorrinRadd> option -> opinion*
[20:01:58] <sickness> yeah I've skipped releases too and always worked well, but for my tasks, I can't guarantee it's like this for everything =)
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[20:02:15] <sickness> NorrinRadd: not doing a good backup is NEVER an option, that's my advice...
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[20:02:51] <e^ipi> NorrinRadd: don't forget to install the new version of LU from the DVD though
[20:03:05] <e^ipi> else you'll get kernel panics
[20:03:15] <NorrinRadd> e^ipi: thank you
[20:03:25] <e^ipi> you should always do that
[20:03:34] <e^ipi> but i never do either so i figured i'd warn you
[20:04:10] <jbit> i love X, program locks up in the "wrong place" (menu open, usually) and you lose your keyboard until said program is killed
[20:04:35] <hajma> hi, is there some other package repository except the default one? tried the ones listed in 'What's New ' , but just by checking them in browser, they were either empty or non-existant
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[20:09:52] <wabisabix> I have a supermicro 2U that I am getting repeated zpool cksum errors on and I cant figure out why - when from 2008.05 to 2008.11 RC2 changed controllers changed from 400 GB disks to 1TB disks changed sata cables, still get scrub errors
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[20:10:15] <wabisabix> went from not when from
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[20:10:59] <wabisabix> anyone have any ideas where to look? I even took a processor offline psradm -f 1
[20:12:20] <codestr0m> wabisabix: have you filed a bug report?
[20:12:43] <wabisabix> not yet
[20:12:59] <codestr0m> wabisabix: also.. for stuff like this.. I'd highly suggest sending an email to zfs-discuss try to get help there
[20:13:20] <RElling> hajma: I think most of those are supposed to go live tomorrow or in the next week
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[20:17:48] <hajma> RElling: thanks
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[20:21:58] <RElling> wabisabix: we've seen crappy power supplies cause such things.
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[20:23:24] <wabisabix> RElling: that might be, it is a supermicro enclosure in a data center with UPS, etc
[20:25:20] <RElling> wabisabix: it is a long shot, though...
[20:26:14] <wabisabix> RElling: with that in mind I will try a test with just two drives, not 6 and see if it helps by reducing the load
[20:26:52] <yksinaisyyteni> have you replaced the cpu and memory (or at least run a memory test)?
[20:27:29] <RElling> agree, we've also seen crappy memory cause this... recommend ECC memory
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[20:29:29] * yksinaisyyteni assumed non-ecc from 'supermicro' ;)
[20:29:42] <wabisabix> I'll double check the memory, is there anything to do a partial test while solaris is running?
[20:29:51] <yksinaisyyteni> wabisabix: SunVTS can
[20:30:05] <yksinaisyyteni> there's also a smaller tool that does it, but i forget the name
[20:30:16] <yksinaisyyteni> (it's something obvious like mtest or memcheck...)
[20:30:51] <wabisabix> the problem is it happens immediately, always if I copy any files to the pool and check with a scrub
[20:30:55] <nachox> memtest86?
[20:31:17] <RElling> SunVTS is in /usr/sunvts, for reference.  Read the README
[20:32:31] <yksinaisyyteni> nachox: i don't think that can run on the host OS.. at least i saw no way for it last i looked
[20:33:02] <wabisabix> I have a linux boot cd I can use next time I am there
[20:33:06] <nachox> i dont think it can
[20:33:21] <e^ipi> memtest86 is kinna like running a car engine for a couple hours... just because nothing breaks while you're doing it doesn't mean everything's ok
[20:33:23] <wabisabix> it has memtest86 in the grub menu now - Fedora
[20:33:45] <yksinaisyyteni> e^ipi: but on the other hand, it usually does find errors caused by bad memory
[20:33:48] <yksinaisyyteni> so it's useful to run it
[20:34:10] <e^ipi> it's not entirely un-useful but a clean bill from memtest isn't anything you'd want to build a business on
[20:34:21] <yksinaisyyteni> well he already knows there's a problem
[20:34:25] <yksinaisyyteni> he just needs to know where it is
[20:35:05] <wabisabix> yeah and after changing disks, controllers, cables and 2008.05 -> 2008.11 RC2 I was out of ideas
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[20:42:02] <codestr0m> so what exactly makes xvm server special? in reading the docs it seems like it's just opensolaris + virtualbox and probably some cli tools?
[20:42:48] <Asako> it's just xen
[20:43:02] <Asako> I guess it's special because it's supported by Sun
[20:43:17] <codestr0m> um.. that's pretty lacklustre
[20:43:23] <alibb> hi there, i am looking for a XvM server installation tutorial. Any one have some nice links
[20:43:43] <jamesd> not to mention you combine xen+zfs and in the future  crossbow that makes it an awesome combination
[20:43:46] <nachox> codestr0m, it's also xen, and it is a bit useless unless you have lots of virtualization servers to handle
[20:44:03] <Asako> I still like zones better
[20:44:07] <Triskelios> codestr0m: I think the point is the management tools
[20:44:16] <jamesd> Asako, you can't run windows in zones.
[20:44:17] <codestr0m> Triskelios: are those tools foss?
[20:44:21] <Asako> I know
[20:44:27] <codestr0m> jamesd: who runs windows?
[20:44:28] <Asako> who needs windows any way?
[20:44:42] <codestr0m> yeah. it's like saying you can run Mac OSX in a zone :P
[20:44:50] <codestr0m> can't*
[20:44:52] <nachox> they will be released using some gpl i think but i dont know why that would be relevant
[20:45:03] <jamesd> codestr0m, you must be locked in a very tiny room with no windows or doors being fed some special koolaid if you beleve that
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[20:45:23] <Triskelios> codestr0m: not sure, but openxvm.org does exist
[20:45:53] <Asako> alibb, easiest way is to grab SXCE and install that
[20:46:04] <Asako> select Solaris xVM at the grub prompt
[20:46:15] <codestr0m> jamesd: umm. sorry I think it's *your* koolaid I'd like to avoid. I mean seriously.. windows is good for gaming.. and I can live without that
[20:46:36] <codestr0m> Triskelios: I'll take a look. thanks
[20:46:38] <Asako> we have windows servers but they all suck
[20:46:51] <Asako> there's nothing windows does you can't do in unix
[20:47:04] <jamesd> codestr0m, corprate america is linked to windows only apps at least for the desktop... exchange and outlook are pretty much unavoidible.
[20:47:05] <alibb> thx Asako
[20:47:06] <codestr0m> the reality is that windows for a server platform is not and will never be the market leader
[20:47:07] <Asako> maybe AD
[20:47:19] <nachox> i dont know, AD is something unix cant match today
[20:47:20] <Asako> ASP.net which could just as easily be PHP or Java
[20:47:32] <nachox> i actually like it
[20:47:38] <codestr0m> jamesd: exchange replacements have and do exist for a while. large corporations also have IBM alternatives if you need those features
[20:47:41] <Triskelios> codestr0m: it sells well to upper management (and in the past, DoD contracts...)
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[20:48:21] <Asako> yeah, DoD desktops are all windows
[20:48:32] <jamesd> codestr0m, the fact that they exist is meaningless untill they are adopted which is not exactly commonplace these days.
[20:49:03] <jamesd> corprate desktops are 99.999% windows these days..
[20:49:19] <nachox> some are osx
[20:49:35] <codestr0m> jamesd: marketing drives adoption more than technology and once again.. desktop statistics for corporate US means nothing with we're talking about server technology
[20:49:53] <codestr0m> for a virtual /server/
[20:50:01] <codestr0m> I think 90% is probably linux right now
[20:50:24] <codestr0m> with some 10% brain damaged people pushing windows
[20:50:27] <Triskelios> afaik windows has a >10% share actually
[20:50:36] <codestr0m> Triskelios: in the virtual server market?
[20:50:36] <Asako> I should set up a nexenta zone
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[20:51:03] <codestr0m> Asako: is there a nexenta brand around or are you on a nexenta host?
[20:51:14] <Triskelios> codestr0m: oh, probably not for virtual
[20:51:27] <Asako> codestr0m, both
[20:51:32] <nachox> vmware is not linux :)
[20:51:43] <Asako> but I dunno if there's a nexenta brand package for solaris
[20:51:45] <Triskelios> nexenta uses the native brand
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[20:51:54] <codestr0m> Asako: if you need help making a nexenta brand I can probably assist a bit
[20:51:57] <Triskelios> there are no Kernel changes
[20:52:12] <Asako> ah, I see
[20:52:14] <codestr0m> Triskelios: native brand on opensolaris is ipkg based and that simply won't work
[20:52:16] <Triskelios> huh, how did that capital sneak in there
[20:52:31] <codestr0m> Triskelios: tab complete?
[20:52:32] <Asako> [wattersm@nexenta] ~ > ls /usr/lib/brand/native/
[20:52:32] <Asako> attach_update*  config.xml  platform.xml  postclone*
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[20:52:38] <Asako> so it's just some scripts
[20:53:50] <Triskelios> codestr0m: it's just an assumption for creating a zone that clones the global zone; you can do without that
[20:54:24] <Asako> no big deal
[20:54:28] <codestr0m> Triskelios: is that an attribute?
[20:54:37] <Asako> actually what I want to try is a gentoo branded zone
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[20:54:59] <Asako> wonder if I could port gentoo to the solaris kernel, hehe
[20:55:22] <codestr0m> Asako: pm me
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[20:57:44] <nachox> ug, scary
[20:58:08] <codestr0m> nachox: indeed.. :)
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[20:58:55] <Triskelios> codestr0m: I don't think so, you'd have to start with SUNWblank
[20:59:16] <codestr0m> Triskelios: yeah. I've got a few custom brands that I started with from that
[20:59:17] <Triskelios> Asako: pkgsrc is a similar idea...
[20:59:33] <Asako> I know
[20:59:39] <Asako> tons of different package systems
[20:59:56] * yksinaisyyteni imagines the size of livecd needed to do a from-source compile of solaris
[21:00:13] <codestr0m> yksinaisyyteni: the gentoo lived cd's aren't like that at all
[21:00:13] <smtms> yksinaisyyteni, think about live DVD
[21:00:28] <codestr0m> they are either very minimal or vanilla livecd
[21:00:40] <Asako> usually download what you need
[21:01:00] <codestr0m> you have a 100MB tarball and then pull the source as needed.. onnv is 745MB last I checked uncompressed
[21:01:15] <codestr0m> with partial checkout and a modular system it could all be quite manageable
[21:01:20] <codestr0m> (I know I've done most of this)
[21:01:32] <Asako> like svn?
[21:01:45] <codestr0m> Asako: svn does support partial/subtree co.. so does git a little
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[21:01:54] <codestr0m> hg doesn't at all. I tried the patches and the work wasn't finished
[21:02:20] <Asako> I just want something where I can do a minimal install and add what I want later
[21:02:32] <Asako> nexenta is cool but uses an old build
[21:02:39] <Asako> and not many packages
[21:02:39] <codestr0m> Asako: yeah I understand
[21:02:49] <e^ipi> Asako: milax
[21:03:02] <Asako> CentOS setup is just ssh and that's it
[21:03:15] <e^ipi> good for centos
[21:03:22] <Asako> yeah, I'll check that out
[21:03:26] <e^ipi> whatever, disk is cheap
[21:03:36] <e^ipi> i paid $200 for 3TB
[21:03:45] <e^ipi> a couple hundred megs here and there is negligable
[21:03:48] <codestr0m> e^ipi: good for you
[21:04:22] <Asako> 7 GB for the full install
[21:04:38] <Asako> on an SSD that's 1/4 of the drive
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[21:06:52] <e^ipi> i just guess i don't understand the drive to try'n fit solaris in tiny spaces... it's totally not optimized for that at all
[21:07:12] <e^ipi> it runs like ass on low memory, low disk, single cpu, etc
[21:07:14] <yksinaisyyteni> but small disks aren't the same as small systems
[21:07:17] <e^ipi> it's a large SMP OS
[21:07:22] <yksinaisyyteni> you can have a decently powerful laptop that has a small SSD
[21:07:34] <yksinaisyyteni> or an X4550 with an SSD for the OS
[21:07:49] <nachox> the whole familiaruty stuff, it HAS to compete with linux everywhere... and win orat least look cute
[21:08:02] <nachox> :P
[21:08:24] <Asako> it definitely helped me
[21:08:31] <Asako> been a linux admin for 10 years
[21:08:56] <elektronkind> and only linux?
[21:09:09] <Asako> mostly, I've also used BSD
[21:09:15] <Asako> and we have Windows servers
[21:09:34] <Asako> but I'm not on the windows team, so I don't touch em
[21:09:42] <wdp> lucky one
[21:09:50] <elektronkind> it's good that you're broadening your horizons though
[21:09:50] <Triskelios> many people are not happy with this as status quo --> <e^ipi> it runs like ass on low memory, low disk, single cpu, etc
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[21:10:18] <e^ipi> Triskelios: i'm not convinced that that can be fixed without sacrificing the places where it does shine
[21:10:40] <elektronkind> I for one would love to see opensolaris run reasonably well on xscale CPUs or any of those low-power x86 cores out there
[21:11:13] <wdp> what are low power x86 cores?
[21:11:17] <e^ipi> atom
[21:11:23] <Asako> q6600
[21:11:24] <wdp> ic
[21:11:25] <jamesd> but of course only an embeded system would be considered small these days... with dual or more core are becoming the norm and ram being so cheap
[21:11:40] <Asako> or how about running on ARM?
[21:11:42] <e^ipi> but losing some performance on SMP to gain some performance on single-cpu is just stupid
[21:11:54] <wdp> indeed
[21:12:04] <e^ipi> similarly, making the VM less complicated to use less ram... i mean, why bother?
[21:12:04] <codestr0m> Asako: no. solaris doesn't currently run on ARM
[21:12:11] <Asako> I know it doesn't
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[21:12:21] <Asako> I guess all sun cares about is x86 and sparc
[21:12:25] <Asako> big iron
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[21:12:40] <e^ipi> big iron is where solaris is unmatched
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[21:12:56] <jamesd> does arm even support 64bit code?  if not solaris 10+ is not targeting... 32bit x86 is only being left in for historis reasons...
[21:13:13] <Stric> I know! Let's port it to a PIC!
[21:13:26] <Stric> Or an 8bit Atmel thingie
[21:13:27] <e^ipi> jamesd: i'd love for solaris to drop 32-bit x86 support
[21:13:44] <e^ipi> if for no other reason than that 64 bit machines tend to have >1GB ram
[21:14:00] <codestr0m> umm. you guys wanting sol to drop x86.. know how much work that is :P
[21:14:03] <jamesd> e^ipi, it wouldn't hurt if they dropped zfs support on 32bit mode first
[21:14:12] <e^ipi> another idea, yeah
[21:14:32] <Stric> codestr0m: no, 32-bit x86
[21:14:54] <e^ipi> amd64 is still decent enough, i'm just talking about 32 bit support full stop
[21:15:01] <e^ipi> 32 bit sparc was dropped
[21:15:04] <nachox> you dont want solaris to become more a niche platform than it already is... really
[21:15:04] <e^ipi> ages ago
[21:15:29] <codestr0m> yeah, but how popular is 32bit sparc on the desktop?
[21:15:30] <e^ipi> how is dropping support for ancient hardware that it doesn't run well on anyways making it more niche ?
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[21:15:54] <e^ipi> who cares about the desktop?
[21:15:54] <nachox> people are still using 32bit processors, and will be for a while
[21:16:06] <e^ipi> nachox: then they should use a lightweight OS for them.
[21:16:07] <benley> I'll be kinda sad if 32bit support goes away
[21:16:15] <e^ipi> i'll be dancing in the streets
[21:16:20] <benley> it's still a lot easier to find 32bit x86 machines to play with for testing than 64bit ones
[21:16:24] <Asako> same here
[21:16:34] <Asako> my desktop is a sempron 3300
[21:16:42] <e^ipi> no more "<some_luser> solaris is sooooo slow on my machine. i have 256M ram. "
[21:16:45] <benley> and like, my 2x1.4ghz p3 with 4gb ram runs solaris just fine, thankyouverymuch
[21:16:54] <nachox> e^ipi, it's much easier to get admins to use the same of for their servers and desktops, that is why the desktop is important
[21:17:12] <Asako> kind of like linux
[21:17:19] <e^ipi> but to hamstring the OS to get it there?
[21:17:21] <benley> and I'd be particularly annoyed if I couldn't use it on this 2x2.6ghz xeon with 12gb ram, just because it's not a 64bit one
[21:17:21] <codestr0m> can we drop the /I've got money to blow on hw attitude/ in the conversation and focus on technical benefits?
[21:17:45] <e^ipi> if the tradeoff is dumbing down the OS to fit where it doesn't belong, fuck it...buy a new machine
[21:18:12] <nachox> e^ipi, not to mention that universities in 3rd world countries are plagued by 32bit only machines and the students of today are the admns and developers of tomorrow
[21:18:37] <codestr0m> e^ipi: I don't think you're winning the crowd with this argument.. can this become technical please and not just telling others to /buy xyz/
[21:18:51] <Triskelios> e^ipi: you're the only one who wants to buy a new machine to accomodate software "bloat". e^ipi: a truly scalable system should be be tunable for smaller environments without impacting larger installations
[21:19:27] <Asako> I don't see why the solaris kernel can't be just as scalable as linux
[21:19:29] <e^ipi> Triskelios: no, there are certain tradeoffs one must make in order to run really great on large machines. it tends to complicate the system a little
[21:19:33] <nachox> codestr0m, btw, i do agree with him to some extent, i dont want to cripple solaris to get it to run in my wrt router for example
[21:19:40] <e^ipi> Asako: because that'd be quite the performance hit
[21:19:41] <codestr0m> Triskelios: I find many parallels between hpc and embedded goals at times. where the arch/systems they run on are quite in contrast, but efficiency is a common goal in both
[21:20:01] <e^ipi> Asako: linux scales up to 16 cpu's mostly linearally... solaris scales up to 512
[21:20:06] <codestr0m> nachox: I'm the choir. . I've been building a pure amd64 optimized opensolaris for months now..
[21:20:10] <nachox> Asako, you clearly dony understand what scallable means, linux does not scale well beyond 16 procs
[21:20:27] <Asako> then how do you get these super computers with thousands of cpus?
[21:20:33] <nachox> they dont
[21:20:36] <e^ipi> you buy a T1000
[21:20:40] <e^ipi> for $2500
[21:20:44] <e^ipi> you get 32 cpu's
[21:20:45] <benley> Asako: you get a bunch of 16cpu boxes and glue them together with infiniband
[21:20:50] <quasi> nachox: finding a >16 proc box that can even boot linnix is no easy task
[21:20:50] <benley> Asako: or myrinet
[21:20:50] <nachox> those supercomputers are actually clusters
[21:20:54] <e^ipi> linux can't scale that high. solaris doesn't have a problem
[21:21:00] <Asako> or linux HA
[21:21:07] <Asako> but I understand
[21:21:15] <e^ipi> and 2500 isn't that much actually
[21:21:21] <e^ipi> esp. for business machines
[21:21:26] <benley> $2500 for a decent server is _cheap_
[21:21:26] <codestr0m> well. you guys are looking at this from a vertical scaling problem
[21:21:27] <nachox> quasi, SGI will be happy to sell those
[21:21:34] <wdp> plus..
[21:21:34] <codestr0m> most *large* clusters don't try to scale single boxes
[21:21:38] <benley> codestr0m: indeed. screw vertical scaling :)
[21:21:42] <wdp> it doesn't matter how "good" the cpus are..
[21:21:43] <Asako> google sure doesn't
[21:21:49] <wdp> it's all about paralleizing.
[21:21:53] <Asako> cheap boxes, and lots of them
[21:21:55] <benley> Asako: they also don't run solaris
[21:22:03] <quasi> nachox: but who but the most crazy would buy something like that from a virtually dead company?
[21:22:16] <Asako> nah, they run their own linux distro
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[21:22:24] <Asako> with MapReduce and BigTable
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[21:22:49] <Asako> I really want to learn something like Hadoop
[21:22:49] <Triskelios> here's my opinion: the people who pay for a 512 CPU single node system can also pay to tune the scheduler and VM for it =P
[21:22:51] <e^ipi> wdp: that's a cop out, scheduling those parallel jobs is not easy, and that's the 'scaling' we're talking about... running 10,000 jobs in parallel is easy, getting them on CPU as efficiently as possible is where OS's matter
[21:23:13] <e^ipi> Triskelios: what about the people that pay 2500 for a 32CPU system?
[21:23:16] <wdp> e^ipi, in fact i just say, i'd prefer 3 cpus with 1ghz, than one cpu with 3ghz.
[21:23:36] <e^ipi> wdp: if your OS is smart enough to schedule those jobs correctly, sure
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[21:23:58] <codestr0m> these are all such generalizations.. to actually get anything meaningful from this we need a real use case and app
[21:24:02] <Triskelios> e^ipi: they'll get trickle-down benefits
[21:24:12] <Asako> people still say VMS clustering is the best
[21:24:32] * benley refrains from making an "old people use vms" joke
[21:24:39] <e^ipi> Triskelios: exactly... solaris is optimized for giant machines... your little 4 core system gets trickle down benefits.
[21:24:55] <nachox> quasi, Belgium's Catholic University of Leuven http://www.hpcwire.com/topic/storage/SGI_HPC_Cluster_to_Power_Research_in_Belgium.html
[21:25:04] <e^ipi> your 1 core machine suffers, because that's just the tradeoff you have to make
[21:25:08] <RElling> VMS machines we sooo sllowwww, nobody noticed VAXCluster performance sucked
[21:25:17] <Asako> heh
[21:25:17] <hali> over 15% all sold openvms licensing is to clients who've never used vms before ...
[21:25:19] <e^ipi> you can't have a complex SMP scheduler that shines on 1cpu too
[21:25:30] <Asako> that's the best hardware they had
[21:25:37] <benley> e^ipi: why use the same scheduler?
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[21:25:44] <Asako> I do like Sun Cluster though
[21:25:53] <e^ipi> benley: why use the same OS ?
[21:26:04] <eviljames> e^ipi: That explains why my 1.8 GHz celeron sucks so bad!
[21:26:04] <eviljames> ;)
[21:26:05] <e^ipi> right tool for the job...
[21:26:30] <e^ipi> solaris is the right tool for the job when the job is SMP, decent amount of memory...
[21:26:36] <e^ipi> it's not otherwise
[21:26:51] <Asako> wow, SGI still makes systems
[21:26:55] <eviljames> I agree, but wonder why the push for solaris laptops is going on?
[21:27:02] <e^ipi> beats me
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[21:27:14] <nachox> eviljames, developers use laptops to develope, that is why
[21:27:17] <eviljames> e^ipi: Unless you're not including opensolaris in that statement.
[21:27:33] <e^ipi> i'm including anything built off O/N
[21:27:49] <e^ipi> besides, most modern laptops have 2GB ram and at least 2 cores
[21:27:57] <e^ipi> solaris is fine on those
[21:28:15] <e^ipi> in my experience though, developers develop on Mac hardware and deploy elsewhere
[21:28:18] <wdp> can't say anything about why there's a push to laptops.. but: i got a laptop, i'm using solaris on it, and from what i've seen yet, i think i'll use opensolaris soon on my servers, instead of linux.
[21:28:45] <wdp> opensolaris is for what i need, just better. without having opensolaris on my notebook, i would never have tried it. :p
[21:29:11] <wdp> so.. pushing support for notebooks, could be a good gain in new users.
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[21:29:55] <wdp> (remove notebook and replace it with what u want in my last sentence. as it doesn't matter for what.) but opensolaris on atom and such things would be just for geeks and fans.
[21:30:12] <melodie_> hi
[21:30:22] <wdp> salut :p
[21:30:30] <melodie_> salut wdp
[21:30:32] <e^ipi> wdp: i'm not saying that active hostility is a good thing, but optimizing the OS for such systems at the expense for the larger ones is a bad idea
[21:30:59] <e^ipi> given the choice between optimizing for the two of them, if laptops have to suffer, laptops have to suffer
[21:31:17] * eviljames nods.  there are already ones optimizing for smaller systems.
[21:31:43] <codestr0m> I wonder if optimizing the community to get rid of e^ipi we would suffer or not notice? ;)
[21:32:03] <e^ipi> don't be an ass
[21:32:07] <eviljames> Personally, I would suffer.
[21:32:22] <eviljames> e^ipi is one of the few people who are willing to at least begin to help before flaming
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[21:32:29] <codestr0m> e^ipi: I'm not. it's a bad joke and don't be an elitist ass
[21:32:46] <eviljames> "elitist"?
[21:32:50] <wdp> lol
[21:32:58] <codestr0m> eviljames: you're kidding. you find nobody else around here helpful?
[21:33:35] <eviljames> aww, I thought it was funny :(
[21:33:59] <codestr0m> e^ipi helps a lot of people.. there is zero question about this.. (even myself.. now and before)
[21:34:01] <Triskelios> e^ipi: which option is "bad" or "wrong" depends on where your priorities are
[21:34:09] <eviljames> Turns out, I need to affix an emoticon to each statement to imply its sentiment :D
[21:34:27] <e^ipi> Triskelios: and i'm saying that solaris differentiates itself by being great on big machines
[21:34:43] <e^ipi> losing that makes it just another OS with no compelling reason to use it
[21:34:47] <wdp> eviljames, <sentimental>use html for that</sentimental>
[21:35:23] <melodie_> I'm trying to install opensolaris 5.08 at a virtual machine, and it looks like it's stucked at 99% : the question is will it finish ?
[21:35:39] <wdp> the answer my friend is blowing in the wind *sing*
[21:35:41] <melodie_> yes !
[21:35:50] <melodie_> it just ended :)
[21:35:52] <eviljames> wdp: {sarcasm}maybe tex\end?
[21:35:54] <Asako> yay
[21:35:57] <wdp> ahaha
[21:36:08] <Asako> the installer does take forever sometimes
[21:36:22] <eviljames> melodie_: I had the exact same thing happen, just wait it out.
[21:36:24] <eviljames> oh
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[21:36:28] <quasi> nachox: religious nuts going by the name ;)
[21:36:32] * eviljames is too late, per usual.
[21:36:38] <melodie_> eviljames, :)
[21:37:01] <e^ipi> luckily the whole discussion is moot, because the features in the pipe make reference to modern systems and not small systems and save for anyone in the community rewriting the scheduler that's unlikely to change any time soon
[21:37:13] <e^ipi> so yay me
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[21:37:26] <eviljames> codestr0m: I can't say that nobody else here has helped me in particular, but I have seen the mob turn on a new user on more than one occasion.
[21:37:36] <melodie_> how can one use "boot from hard disk" boot option please ?
[21:37:37] <eviljames> Not that I would be exempt, some situations require that.
[21:37:43] * e^ipi puts down pitchfork and torch
[21:37:46] <melodie_> incase I install it to a real machine ?
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[21:37:50] <e^ipi> *cough* wasn't me
[21:37:52] <wdp> e^ipi, support for small systems would need to be coded into the kernel, or?
[21:38:08] <e^ipi> wdp: yeah, a whole lot of stuff would have to be simplified
[21:38:10] <codestr0m> eviljames: I'm the first person here to defend the linux noob and help those asking /stupid/ questions.. if I had my way. it would stop today/right now
[21:38:25] <wdp> e^ipi, and in solaris the kernel isn't open like in linux. that means.. our whole discussion doesn't matter as we can't change it, correct?
[21:38:28] <e^ipi> it'd be a total re-architecting of the kernel
[21:38:47] <e^ipi> wdp: the kernel's open, but that'd be a hell of a lot of work to undo the last 15 years
[21:38:47] <Triskelios> wdp: uh, the solaris kernel is open
[21:38:48] <eviljames> codestr0m: whoa, let's not through the baby out with the bath water.  Some questions deserve a stern "RTFMN00B".
[21:38:55] <wdp> hm
[21:39:07] <wdp> so i can compile the solaris kernel like in linux?
[21:39:10] <Triskelios> wdp: it's the core part of opensolaris
[21:39:12] <wdp> with something like make menuconfig?
[21:39:16] <e^ipi> no
[21:39:20] <e^ipi> because there is no make menuconfig
[21:39:24] <wdp> hm
[21:39:27] <e^ipi> but you can build the core system with nightly
[21:39:33] <Asako> you need something like the noob help channel in eve
[21:39:34] <codestr0m> eviljames: absolutely.. I just try to refer to specific docs and be tactful
[21:39:36] <e^ipi> like in freebsd
[21:39:48] <eviljames> codestr0m: It is a tough balance, I just don't think that every time someone comes in here complaining about wifi drivers or "I dont understand why inetd won't die" that it has to immediately descend to name calling.
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[21:39:53] * wdp is new.. so please don't get me wrong :)
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[21:40:06] * Asako looks for where his disk space went
[21:40:13] <codestr0m> eviljames: yeah, but there's a lot of trolls around here. which is actually less than the past. so it's a work in progress
[21:40:18] <eviljames> haha
[21:40:29] <e^ipi> wdp: np, the core system is called O/N ( os/networking ), you can download it and build it locally
[21:40:47] <e^ipi> it's the kernel, system libraries, a lot of the userland, etc
[21:40:53] <Asako> how often does zfs update the amount used total?
[21:41:10] <e^ipi> the kernel isn't an atomic thing like linux, kernel and the rest of the system are inter-dependent
[21:41:18] <Triskelios> Asako: immediately, like other filesystems...
[21:41:18] <eviljames> Asako: Probably as often as something is written to disk.
[21:41:18] <nachox> wdp, recompiling the kernel is not even a good idea in linux, solaris has had kernel modules for ages to avoid that
[21:41:28] <Asako> whoops, forgot about snapshots
[21:41:46] <Asako> I was wondering why used didn't match my total refer
[21:41:52] <wdp> nachox, that depends on your distribution and on your needs, if we're talking about linux.
[21:42:06] <Triskelios> Asako: compression is another thing that will give funny results
[21:42:26] <e^ipi> wdp: compiling the kernel in solaris is only really useful if you've changed something about the kernel
[21:42:42] <Asako> just seeing if I can fit my install on a 32 GB SSD
[21:42:43] <wdp> ic
[21:42:47] <eviljames> nachox: Why do you recommend against compiling even the linux kernel?
[21:42:51] <nachox> wdp, recompiling your kernel means voiding your support contract in any linux distro
[21:43:05] <wdp> nachox, if we're talking about commercial linux distributions indeed.
[21:43:22] <e^ipi> hardware drivers can just be built as external modules, the ABI is static so you don't have the same problems like in linux where you need to rebuild drivers with the kernel
[21:43:33] <eviljames> nachox: I was tempted to not let my gf use any computer in the house until _after_ she had successfully completed a kernel build.
[21:43:44] <e^ipi> binary drivers for S9 should work in opensolaris
[21:44:01] <Asako> why should she even care?
[21:44:02] <Triskelios> e^ipi: well, except for amd64 =P
[21:44:07] <nachox> eviljames, dont teach your girlfriend to waste her time
[21:44:09] <e^ipi> eviljames: that seems a bit excessive ... i bought B a mac and that's that
[21:44:19] <wdp> nachox, but: The linux kernel comes either precompiled with choosen selection of your distributor or you do it yourself. how much are you into kernels in linux? Some kernels are coming without low latency, you can enable this when you compile your kernel. What about old machines? do they really need 64GB Support like the suse kernel is doing?
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[21:44:33] <eviljames> well, I realized I liked having her around so it didn't happen ;)
[21:44:46] <eviljames> but I think that people should learn at least something about the box in front of them.
[21:44:56] <e^ipi> wdp: solaris has been closed source for a long time
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[21:45:02] <e^ipi> wdp: so most of that stuff is a boot-time option
[21:45:10] <e^ipi> no need to recompile to change tunables
[21:45:21] <wdp> nachox, plus, without modifications within my kernel config my notebook wouldn't work in linux, it's a known bug. anyway. this isn't #linux. but as linux is the only thing i can compare with.. i named it.
[21:45:23] <nachox> wdp, i've used slackware in the past and used to compile the kernel too... till i realized it was a waste of time
[21:45:45] <wdp> e^ipi, yeah i understand.
[21:46:07] <Asako> only thing I wish redhat would add is lkcd patches
[21:46:20] <e^ipi> linux doesn't have a robust kernel tunables framework, it's expected that you'll recompile... solaris doesn't expect you to compile it ever, it's got /etc/system
[21:46:26] <Asako> I'm sick of not knowing why a server kernel panicked
[21:47:01] <Asako> sometimes it logs, sometimes it doesn't
[21:47:23] <elektronkind> don't get me started on linux's oom-killer
[21:47:27] <Triskelios> Asako: that's one of the better arguments against linux on a server
[21:47:47] <sergei_k> hi, guys! i'm sorry, i think you're alreday get rid of this question. but... when 08.11 will come? may be you know something.. it is 30th already, and it comes to the end. i mean stable 08.11 of course.
[21:47:48] <Asako> I love when the oom killer kills apache
[21:47:51] <Asako> or mysqld
[21:48:01] <e^ipi> /var/crash/`hostname`/ :)
[21:48:03] <elektronkind> I recently had a linux box get low on memory, so oom-killer kicked in and after it killed two oracle processes, it killed syslogd
[21:48:17] <elektronkind> "how nice of it"
[21:48:20] <Asako> yeah
[21:48:33] <elektronkind> blind man with a shotgun
[21:48:35] <Triskelios> sergei_k: maybe midnight, NZST? that's about how 2008.05 worked...
[21:48:43] <e^ipi> what an idiotic mis-feature that was...
[21:48:47] <e^ipi> ( oom-killer i mean )
[21:48:54] <Asako> did they get rid of it?
[21:48:55] <e^ipi> just fail on fork() like you should be doing
[21:49:02] <Triskelios> er wrong time zone, it should be on the other side of the pacific..
[21:49:21] <elektronkind> e^ipi: it's how the kernel frees up memory it needs if physical RAM is full... it'll randomly snipe user-space processes to get what it wants
[21:49:23] <Asako> how does a snapshot use less than it refers?
[21:49:29] <elektronkind> and yes, it's on by default
[21:49:30] <e^ipi> i actually think it's more likely that it'll come out tomorrow, on account of it's sunday so nobody's working
[21:49:46] <e^ipi> elektronkind: i know what it is, it's idiotic
[21:50:10] <nachox> getprop is now just get in zfs right?
[21:50:11] <sergei_k> Triskelios: thanks, didn't know how it worked )
[21:50:16] <e^ipi> some grad student's dumb idea
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[21:50:58] <e^ipi> my experience with profs and grad students is that they should write papers about turing machines and stay the hell away from real code
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[21:51:53] <wdp> hey TheBonsai
[21:52:15] <TheBonsai> hi.
[21:52:20] <wdp> e^ipi, how is that with the kernel if it was closed source
[21:52:26] <wdp> e^ipi, is it now all open source?
[21:52:39] <wdp> or still some closed parts?
[21:52:53] <nachox> a little bit is still closed
[21:53:11] <e^ipi> there's a couple closed parts, Sun's crypto signing key, internationalization functions ( mbtowc , etc )
[21:53:14] <e^ipi> which is unfortunate
[21:53:23] <e^ipi> the lion's share is open source though
[21:53:38] <TheBonsai> a question about OSS and solaris just raised. i have a SPARC V from FJS here, some years ago i tried to install a SPARC64 aware linux system - it didn't run. after a while i found out that you'd need to license some prozessor-specific code for that machine
[21:53:42] <nachox> well, all but the part about the sun crypto signing key is unfortunate :)
[21:53:58] <Asako> does open solaris have remote desktop?
[21:54:09] <nachox> vnc
[21:54:10] <wdp> Asako, (yes - gnome has it)
[21:54:10] <elektronkind> vnc
[21:54:19] <Asako> thanks
[21:54:19] <elektronkind> and rdesktop for a client
[21:54:30] <Asako> it's nice being able to login to my home computer
[21:54:30] <TheBonsai> the question is: what about this licensing?
[21:54:41] <sickness> and standard X remote session =)
[21:54:55] <elektronkind> what about it? CDDL is more permissive than GPL
[21:55:31] <elektronkind> oh I see what you were talking about
[21:55:39] <wdp> .
[21:55:47] <elektronkind> that's a Fujutsu thing... Capacity on Demand
[21:55:50] * nachox looks at elektronkind, where did cddl came from?
[21:55:56] <e^ipi> nachox: mozilla
[21:56:26] <elektronkind> To use CoD components in those high-end systems, they have to be enabled via purchased license key
[21:56:33] <nachox> e^ipi, WRT TheBonsai's question
[21:56:37] <elektronkind> this license key lives in the system controller (sc)
[21:56:50] <e^ipi> why would you run linux on a sparc anyways?
[21:57:01] <e^ipi> linux's sparc port is pretty bad
[21:57:11] <sickness> yeah, at least use openbsd :P
[21:57:11] <sickness> gh
[21:57:15] <e^ipi> and that's not just general linux bashing... linux/x86 is pretty mature
[21:57:16] <TheBonsai> elektronkind: the machine is a primepower (a small one, not "big brother" hehe). the linux i once tried to install didn't support that specific architecture because of the license. a solaris 9/10 fresh from sun ran, of course, they included the architecture support
[21:57:16] <nachox> it's bad enough to poison yourelf in x86
[21:57:18] <Asako> or NetBSD
[21:57:22] <e^ipi> but linux/sparc is barely working
[21:57:49] <TheBonsai> elektronkind: i just don't know if a "completely free" system can include that support if nobody pays the license
[21:58:04] <e^ipi> linux/ppc is pretty mature as well
[21:58:10] <yksinaisyyteni> sparc linux kernel seems to be done by one guy for the last 15 years
[21:58:22] <TheBonsai> well, linux was an example.
[21:58:24] <nachox> miller i think is the name
[21:58:45] <elektronkind> TheBonsai: this type of stuff is found a lot on such high-end systems. You'll find the same thing on some x86 servers from unisys and SGI, as well as all of the POWER-based systems from IBM that run AIX
[21:59:36] <TheBonsai> i know that :) okay, the core of the question maybe is: can and does opensolaris support that architecture?
[21:59:47] <TheBonsai> that specific one
[21:59:54] <elektronkind> it's a bad concept. The concept is that you can buy a fully populated system for the price of a half-populated one if you only need half the capacity but might need it all later. At that later date, you buy the license to activate the other compeonents... hence "capacity on demand"
[22:00:02] <Asako> does ntfs have write support?
[22:00:07] <nachox> no
[22:00:12] <elektronkind> TheBonsai: it very well should.
[22:00:15] <Asako> that sucks
[22:00:17] <nachox> i dont think it even has read support
[22:00:28] <Triskelios> nachox: read support is there, with a userland helper
[22:00:37] <Triskelios> nachox: ditto for ext2/3
[22:00:37] <Asako> I have 154 GB of stuff on an ntfs drive
[22:00:39] <sickness> isn't there a port of ntfs 3g for solaris?
[22:00:47] <TheBonsai> okay ;) now, any reason to drop solaris in flavour for opensolaris?
[22:01:01] <Asako> I wouldn't
[22:01:09] <sickness> Asako: there was also a guide on the belenix.org wiki to mount ntfs
[22:01:12] <nachox> TheBonsai, what are you using that box for?
[22:01:24] <elektronkind> TheBonsai: unless you /need/ something opensolaris has that solaris 10u6 doesn't, I'd stick with solaris 10
[22:01:29] <TheBonsai> tests. mainly oracle database
[22:01:40] <elektronkind> TheBonsai: if the support contract doesn't matter, then you can give opensolaris a whirl
[22:02:03] <nachox> if you need real enterprise grade support and security updates, use solaris 10, the same thing applies if you're using it as a developement box with your prod box running solaris 10
[22:02:08] <TheBonsai> no, it doesn't. i more meant from the technical background.
[22:02:09] <elektronkind> TheBonsai: it all comes down to what kind of vendor support you want. If you don't have any right now, then feel free to try opensolaris
[22:02:14] <TheBonsai> the box is just a test box :)
[22:02:26] <elektronkind> ok, in that case go for it. nothing to lose there.
[22:02:27] <elektronkind> :)
[22:02:41] <Asako> solaris file system support is still way too limited
[22:02:59] <elektronkind> what is it missing?
[22:03:04] <TheBonsai> what is opensolaris in a short term? a GNU with a solaris core? or is that too simple?
[22:03:09] <wdp> elektronkind, probably thats still not answering whether it will running.
[22:03:12] <Asako> ext3 read/write
[22:03:18] <yksinaisyyteni> TheBonsai: the source code for solaris
[22:03:19] <Asako> ntfs, xfs, jfs, etc.
[22:03:26] <wdp> elektronkind, due to opensolaris beeing free, and his box is special which needs to use this "non"-free system to operate.
[22:03:29] <nachox> TheBonsai, they provide some of the gnu userland
[22:03:36] <wdp> if i got it right
[22:03:37] <wdp> :>
[22:03:44] <nachox> TheBonsai, but personally i remove it from my PATH
[22:03:49] <Asako> point is I have to recover data from drives with all kinds of file systems
[22:04:03] <elektronkind> wdp: sure, he can find out by netbooting or dropping in a CD of opensolaris
[22:04:47] <sickness> Asako: you could use virtual machines... I know it's a bit clunky but feasible with today ram and cpu capacities...
[22:04:56] <elektronkind> Asako: this is why people tend to chose a primary fs and stick with it
[22:05:15] <Asako> yeah, ext3 for us
[22:05:16] <Triskelios> TheBonsai: opensolaris is an overloaded term; it refers to the project, the software, as well as the 2008.x distro
[22:05:29] <elektronkind> Asako: I'd go nuts if I had a data center full of boxes that used whatever fs the admin fealt like at the time
[22:05:39] <TheBonsai> nachox: i have a GNU env on my solaris machines. but not by default in PATH :) i'm not that decadent, just a litte ;)
[22:05:41] <Triskelios> Asako: read works for ext2/3 and ntfs, as I said
[22:05:42] <Asako> but when you change operating systems you lose access to that drive
[22:06:01] <Asako> and I don't want to reformat just so I can write to it again
[22:06:20] <TheBonsai> Triskelios: ok - so i'll just get an installation image for SPARC64 and try my best
[22:06:22] <e^ipi> NFS is the only cross-platform FS really
[22:06:24] <elektronkind> Asako: I guess I don't put myself in that situation
[22:06:31] <TheBonsai> (it boots out of OBP, no?)
[22:06:43] <benley> elektronkind: awww, what about the ever-popular FAT32?
[22:06:47] <melodie_> beg your pardon, the gui in vm is stocked with packagemanager that got the gui frozen when I tried to update package list : do someone know if there is a magical set of keys that can help in such case ? (in Virtualbox)
[22:07:25] <sickness> melodie_: you installed virtualbox from the package manager? on opensolaris?
[22:07:35] <melodie_> no
[22:07:37] <e^ipi> the gui is pretty broken., just use the command line tools ( pkg(1) )
[22:07:51] <e^ipi> it's fixed for 2008.11 IIRC but *shrug*
[22:07:57] <Triskelios> TheBonsai: "it" == solaris express?
[22:08:01] <melodie_> I'm talking to you actually from an Archlinux box in which I have Virtualbox
[22:08:10] <nachox> e^ipi, cifs is mostly everywhere
[22:08:27] <TheBonsai> Triskelios: yes - it seems so. any suggestions?
[22:08:28] <melodie_> in Virtualbox I have my first OpenSolaris trying to run
[22:08:30] <e^ipi> nachox: doesn't really support UNIX semantics so it's not quite as helpful
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[22:08:42] <melodie_> sickness, and it's frozen. :(
[22:08:48] <e^ipi> i can't keep an ON checkout on a local drive on my mac and export it to a virtual machine via cifs, for example
[22:08:56] <e^ipi> NFS works fine ( and i do that actually )
[22:08:58] <sickness> melodie_: how much ram did you give to the vm?
[22:08:59] <Triskelios> TheBonsai: that should work fine
[22:09:02] <melodie_> I can do a wild reboot, but I tried to do else : are
[22:09:07] <melodie_> sickness, 512 mo
[22:09:16] <melodie_> the host machine has 1 go
[22:09:34] <melodie_> and there is 750 mo swap partition too
[22:09:54] <melodie_> sickness, is that too short ?
[22:10:02] <sickness> melodie_: ok so there was a bug in 2008.5 it will freeze with 512 because it uses really too much, but it should be fixed in 2008.11rc2, so I think you should download the iso of 2008.11rc2 and try with that in the vm with 512mb
[22:10:42] <melodie_> sickness, great, thks a lot ! where is it where is it ??? :D
[22:10:53] <Triskelios> melodie_: genunix.org
[22:10:54] <melodie_> hope there is a torrent ?
[22:10:55] <sickness> melodie_: http://www.genunix.org/distributions/indiana/osol-0811-rc2-global.iso
[22:11:00] <melodie_> ok Triskelios thanks too
[22:11:09] <sickness> yeah, there's also the .torrent
[22:11:16] <melodie_> great ! you are all wonderful !  :D
[22:11:51] <sickness> yw :)
[22:12:09] <melodie_> :)
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[22:14:13] <nachox> e^ipi, why do you need the ON code in your mac?
[22:14:30] <e^ipi> my laptop is the mac
[22:14:42] <nachox> i guessed that much
[22:14:43] <e^ipi> and sometimes i want to work out of a cafe or whatever
[22:15:08] <nachox> so youre using SXCE in your laptop then
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[22:15:18] <e^ipi> yeah, in vmware
[22:15:25] <Plazma> vmware fusion?
[22:15:27] <Plazma> or parallels
[22:15:31] <e^ipi> fusion
[22:15:42] <melodie_> please what differs between global iso and not global iso ?
[22:15:50] <oxygene> number of locales
[22:15:50] <Asako> the ntfs-3g on solaris posts don't fill me with confidence
[22:16:04] <Plazma> ahh
[22:16:10] <Plazma> i want a new macbook, they are quite sexy
[22:16:14] <sickness> and global iso is smaller ;)
[22:16:40] <melodie_> sickness, to get french I need the other then ?
[22:16:43] <sickness> Plazma: *cough* only glare, no matte *cough*
[22:17:00] <sickness> melodie_: for what I've seen global has french in it
[22:17:06] <e^ipi> melodie_: no, french is on the regular one i think, the  global one has like, georgian
[22:17:15] <e^ipi> and is much slower to install
[22:17:27] <sickness> oh
[22:17:30] <melodie_> ?
[22:17:40] <e^ipi> it's compressed with a slower algorithm
[22:17:41] <melodie_> I'd like it in french :D
[22:17:43] <sickness> I used the global one and I just use the C locale ghgh :P
[22:17:55] <e^ipi> melodie_: either should support french
[22:17:56] <melodie_> ghgh ? you use only console ?
[22:18:32] <sickness> melodie_: I'm italian but when I use a computer I'm comfortable with US layout and ASCII 7bit, no crap on my monitor and easy / ~ {} reaching ;)
[22:18:44] <melodie_> I'm only a linux user, with very small knowledge. The bigger even if slower to install should be better for a start shouldn't it ?
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[22:19:28] <sickness> well I've always used us/ascii on linux and win32 too :P
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[22:19:48] <melodie_> well, I've got a laptop with us keyboard, but I configure it for azerty and I avoid looking at it when typing. /o\
[22:19:50] <sickness> I don't know how much it will change I don't know why but I've always used the global osol iso :/
[22:19:59] <Asako> same here
[22:20:13] <sickness> yeah, I also avoid looking at it :)
[22:21:13] <Asako> think I'll try installing RC2 tonight
[22:21:34] <wdp> sigh
[22:21:39] <wdp> this zones documentation is soo big
[22:21:48] <wdp> i always need years just to find out how to "HALT" a zone
[22:21:55] <e^ipi> wdp: login, shutdown
[22:22:00] <nachox> shouldnt the new version of indiana have been released already?
[22:22:02] <Asako> zoneadm
[22:22:50] <e^ipi> with the exception of switching my computer to french to annoy people that i let use it because i vaguely understand it, i've never needed anything but english
[22:22:53] <melodie_> I got the torrents ! http://dlc.sun.com/torrents/info/
[22:22:57] <wdp> ah
[22:23:02] <wdp> zoneadm -z ll halt
[22:23:14] <e^ipi> my knowledge of internationalization requirements is pretty close to nil.
[22:23:15] <quasi> nachox: I've heard the 4th as the release date
[22:23:48] <Asako> should be able to just update any way
[22:24:50] <melodie_> what is the "automated installer" is it the same stuff to install as in the live CD ?
[22:25:47] <e^ipi> melodie_: it's for network installs
[22:25:52] <e^ipi> iirc
[22:26:13] <melodie_> e^ipi, ok thank you.
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[22:27:19] <melodie_> 639 / 687 : global is smaller with 48 mo less : why such a tiny difference ?
[22:27:54] <e^ipi> different compression algorithm
[22:28:02] <e^ipi> one is gzip, one is lzjb
[22:29:00] <melodie_> thus that's why the global will install faster ?
[22:29:41] <e^ipi> slower
[22:29:42] <e^ipi> not faster
[22:29:53] <melodie_> ...
[22:30:08] <e^ipi> smaller = slower
[22:30:12] <e^ipi> better compression
[22:30:44] <melodie_> I choose the non global then. :)
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[22:33:26] <melodie_> hum... the torrent replies:
[22:33:28] <melodie_> " Inactive: Tracker: [Failure reason "Torrent unauthorised"]
[22:33:29] <melodie_> "
[22:33:35] <melodie_> weird ?
[22:33:55] <codestr0m> melodie_: ping wereHamster what's the status on the torrents if you know. I think you tried them before?
[22:34:46] <melodie_> codestr0m, I have no idea what you are talking about. I use rtorrent, know basic functions and that's it
[22:34:59] <melodie_> I got the torrent file from here :
[22:35:08] <melodie_> http://dlc.sun.com/torrents/info/
[22:35:22] <codestr0m> melodie_: yeah. and I don't know, but wereHamster might
[22:35:24] <melodie_> and found the link at opensolaris fr
[22:35:57] <melodie_> it's ok
[22:35:59] <melodie_> :"
[22:36:02] <melodie_> PING wereHamster (208.69.34.132) 56(84) bytes of data.
[22:36:03] <melodie_> 64 bytes from hit-nxdomain.opendns.com (208.69.34.132): icmp_seq=1 ttl=53 time=80.9 ms
[22:36:03] <melodie_> "
[22:37:11] <melodie_> I quit rtorrent, started it again, same message appears : I'll do it with wget. doesn't matter.
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[22:42:54] <aretter> is OpenSolaris 64-bit? I just installed and under uname -av I only see i86pc - I expected something about x64
[22:43:04] <e^ipi> yes
[22:43:11] <e^ipi> uname only tells you the architecture, not the ISA
[22:43:20] <Auralis_> isainfo -v
[22:43:29] <aretter> okay - how come 64bit java isnt installed by default?
[22:43:33] <e^ipi> it is
[22:43:45] <codestr0m> aretter: some parts of it are, but the majority isn't and listen to Auralis_ for how to tell your current arch
[22:43:48] <aretter> j6rtx package isnt installed?
[22:43:54] <e^ipi> aretter:  /usr/java/bin/amd64/
[22:44:04] <aretter> just check the arch and it says 64bit amd64 :-)
[22:44:23] <e^ipi> if the CPU supports 64 bit, solaris will boot the 64 bit kernel
[22:44:24] <aretter> i dont have an /usr/java/bin/amd64 folder!
[22:44:36] <aretter> this is 2008.11
[22:44:38] <aretter> rc32
[22:44:39] <aretter> rc2
[22:46:59] <melodie_> aretter, ?
[22:47:00] <comay_> aretter, the 64-bit java components aren't installed by default due to limited CD space
[22:47:09] <aretter> ah okay cool
[22:47:13] <aretter> installing them now...
[22:47:18] <comay_> the packages you want are SUNWj6rtx (runtime) & SUNWj6dvx (jdk)
[22:47:36] <comay_> or just install java-dev and get the whole kit 'n caboodle
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[22:47:39] <melodie_> where is the doc ?
[22:47:51] <aretter> the panel applet for configuring dual screens doesnt seem to work - it just always goes back to mirrored screens even when I change it... is there a guide for manually configuring dual screens
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[22:48:16] <e^ipi> aretter: it's an xorg thing
[22:48:26] <aretter> ah okays so i need to read up on that
[22:48:29] <e^ipi> just use the linux guides to do it.... xorg.conf is roughly the same
[22:48:35] <nachox> hey comay_ :)
[22:48:52] <Triskelios> aretter: if you're using nvidia, use nvidia-settings
[22:48:58] <e^ipi> comay_: working on a sunday ?
[22:49:27] <Triskelios> e^ipi: touching xorg.conf is not necessary
[22:49:36] <e^ipi> not with nvidia no
[22:49:46] <Triskelios> e^ipi: nor with intel or radeon
[22:49:47] <aretter> i have an ATI
[22:50:12] <comay_> hey there nachox
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[22:50:38] <Triskelios> aretter: the applet *should* work then, or try xrandr on the terminal
[22:51:10] <aretter> applet doesnt work - trying xrandr now
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[22:54:20] <aretter>  xrandr --output DVI-I_2/analog --right-of DVI-I_1/analog
[22:54:20] <aretter> xrandr: screen cannot be larger than 1680x1680 (desired size 3360x1050)
[22:56:37] <codestr0m> aretter: ++
[22:56:39] <Triskelios> aretter: okay, for this you do I have to edit xorg.conf; the Virtual size should be the maximum of the combined outputs
[22:56:48] <aretter> okies
[22:58:56] <aretter> erm is there a xorg.cfg?
[23:00:24] <Triskelios> Xorg -configure will generate one (you may have to disable X temporarily first)
[23:02:26] <aretter> okay cool - back in a bit then (hopefully ;-))
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[23:05:20] <melodie_> do one know if incase of multiboot allready existing it's possible to install grub on Opensolaris own partition and chain it from a master grub ?
[23:05:36] <e^ipi> melodie_: i suggest saving your menu.lst and using solaris's grub
[23:05:46] <e^ipi> solaris' grub can boot linux, but linux's grub can't boot solaris
[23:05:55] <melodie_> e^ipi, so ?
[23:06:02] <e^ipi> so what?
[23:06:05] <melodie_> in this example:
[23:06:13] <melodie_> http://opensolaris.org/os/community/documentation/reviews/Dual_Boot_Install_Doc_Plan/Dual-Booting-OpenSolaris-with-Ubuntu-Linux/Installing-OpenSolaris-on-New-Linux-Partition/
[23:06:56] <melodie_> the Ubuntu system will be booted from os grub, but with this notation at first update of the kernel the os menu.lst won't boot ubuntu anymore
[23:07:56] <melodie_> how come Grub in Opensolaris and in Linux distributions will be different ? the way it was compiled ?
[23:08:14] <nachox> the grub in linux doesnt understand zfs
[23:08:16] <e^ipi> melodie_: grub doesn't accept patches
[23:08:17] <Triskelios> melodie_: opensolaris grub has additional modules and other code
[23:08:24] <jamesd> linux doesn't support  ufs or zfs ....  solaris grub does
[23:08:29] <e^ipi> we tried upstreaming the ZFS and UFS patches but they wouldn't accept them
[23:08:43] <nachox> did they say why?
[23:09:01] <wdp> probably license issues
[23:09:06] <melodie_> maybe things will be different when Grub 2 will be currently available ?
[23:09:10] <Triskelios> wdp: no
[23:09:18] <nachox> the zfs part in grub is gpl
[23:09:25] <wdp> oh. ic
[23:09:30] <melodie_> I read it can be tweaked with external files
[23:09:43] <Triskelios> the patches were rejected because grub 0.9x development has stopped, afaik
[23:09:54] <Triskelios> they don't accept any patches now
[23:10:13] <melodie_> Triskelios, so for Grub 2 it will maybe be possible ... (?)
[23:10:26] <e^ipi> nachox: because we should all be moving to grub2
[23:10:31] <Triskelios> melodie_: yeah, if and when grub 2 will ever be released
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[23:10:35] <e^ipi> nachox: hence, no new features in grub1
[23:10:40] <nachox> e^ipi, and we arent? :)
[23:10:47] <e^ipi> it doesn't even work
[23:10:56] <melodie_> Triskelios, I heard several people say they allready used it.
[23:11:42] <melodie_> what about booting OS from a grub floppy ? is that a possibility ?
[23:11:59] <e^ipi> probably only if the grub floppy is from us
[23:12:45] <nachox> floppies are a bad idea
[23:12:48] <melodie_> and what about minimum requirement afa the cpu is concerned ?
[23:13:19] <Triskelios> melodie_: re: your original question: I think you can chainload OS grub from regular grub
[23:13:29] <melodie_> ah ?
[23:13:41] <melodie_> I'd be interested to try that.
[23:13:53] <e^ipi> melodie_: pentium3 or ultraII at 300mhz
[23:14:12] <Triskelios> melodie_: since it just installs at the x86 partition boot sector, the normal chainload should work
[23:14:22] <melodie_> e^ipi, then I'll try on old machines, i've got some.
[23:14:38] <e^ipi> melodie_: it's very ram hungry
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[23:14:54] <e^ipi> cpu it's pretty light but you need at least 512M and want at least 1GB
[23:14:59] <melodie_> Triskelios, install at the partition sector is the usual way with OpenSolaris ? no MBR ? :p
[23:15:03] <johannes> melodie_: there was a blog posting aobut that a week ago or so on planet opensolaris, i think
[23:15:26] <Triskelios> melodie_: both the boot sector and MBR are done by default afaik
[23:15:27] <melodie_> johannes, d'u have the link ?
[23:15:41] <johannes> melodie_: looking for it but i don't find it :-(
[23:15:46] <melodie_> ok Triskelios I'll do tests on a dedicated machine. :)
[23:16:16] <melodie_> <e^ipi> melodie_: it's very ram hungry : how much ram would it be happy with ?
[23:16:23] <e^ipi> 1GB or more
[23:16:29] <melodie_> wao !
[23:16:36] <e^ipi> it will work with 512M but it's not ideal
[23:16:45] <melodie_> I understund
[23:17:02] <e^ipi> 512 is okay with no ZFS
[23:17:07] <melodie_> at home we are not too rich with ram, but with old machines yes
[23:17:25] <melodie_> we ought to look for PC133 big barrettes
[23:17:48] <johannes> melodie_: http://srdandukic.blogspot.com/2008/08/multi-boot-linux-and-opensolaris.html not the article i was looking for but the same subject ...
[23:18:10] <melodie_> I don't know the file system formats at os : so zfs or other I don't know about advantages and inconvenients. :/
[23:18:14] <melodie_> not yet
[23:18:28] <melodie_> thks johannes
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[23:24:15] <houst0n> I just installed rc2 on an eeepc with 512mb, with zfs .. and it's working great (using it now =))
[23:24:19] <melodie_> johannes, that's great !
[23:24:33] <melodie_> I just saw the Very Light !  :D
[23:24:50] <melodie_> from your link:
[23:24:52] <melodie_> "This is called setting up a dedicated grub partition and is described better here. "
[23:25:03] <melodie_> here is:
[23:25:05] <melodie_> http://users.bigpond.net.au/hermanzone/p15.htm#How_to_make_a_separate_Grub_Partition_
[23:25:25] <melodie_> "A dedicated GRUB partition is a special partition just for GRUB, it just has GRUB files in it.
[23:25:25] <melodie_> This will mean GRUB will be 'operating system independant'. "
[23:25:31] <melodie_> so beautiful !!! :D
[23:25:43] *** Tobbe is now known as Tobbe|autoaway
[23:25:45] <melodie_> the sun will shine tonight ! \o/ !
[23:26:04] <houst0n> You get exited over weird stuff ;)
[23:26:11] <houst0n> excited
[23:26:13] <melodie_> houst0n, lol
[23:26:14] <houst0n> bleh tiny keys
[23:26:14] <e^ipi> melodie_: remember, you must use solaris grub
[23:26:30] <e^ipi> linux grub is not sufficient
[23:26:31] <melodie_> e^ipi, yes I got it
[23:26:49] <melodie_> it's written also on johannes 's link. :)
[23:27:06] <Triskelios> there's no point in a dedicated partition from grub unless you plan to uninstall the OS it normally shares a filesystem with
[23:27:22] <Triskelios> s/from/for/
[23:27:40] <melodie_> I'll take time within a few days, to see how to manage to get a dedicated machine to try theses (with enough ram... )
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[23:28:17] <melodie_> Triskelios, I've got a laptop where stand... several systems
[23:29:02] <melodie_> last Ubuntu is weird to me, and I couldn't easily setup my usual grub to boot it, so I managed to chainload it's grub from the main one
[23:29:52] <melodie_> I like to always have one partition at least to try a distro (additionnally to virtual machine) so... grub on it's own partition seems nice to me to try.
[23:30:02] <wdp> there was another package repository
[23:30:05] <wdp> where mplayer is in..
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[23:30:12] <wdp> someone knows?
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[23:31:16] <and> /leave/nic
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[23:32:39] <quasi> wdp: blastwave?
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[23:33:18] <wdp> no
[23:33:19] <wdp> found it
[23:33:27] <wdp> http://pkg.lifewithsolaris.jp:10000/ lifeiwthsolaris.jp
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[23:35:16] <CoolMa> Hi, I compiled software and did install it into /usr/local directory
[23:35:25] <CoolMa> How do I tell the system to look into /usr/local/lib for libraries?
[23:35:43] <e^ipi> you build your software with -R
[23:35:59] <CoolMa> what does that mean?
[23:36:02] <e^ipi> or use elfedit(1) to fix it if you didn't do that
[23:36:18] <e^ipi> it means that when you build your software, pass -R/usr/local/lib to LDFLAGS
[23:36:31] <CoolMa> I compiled software with --prefix=/usr/local and did make install
[23:36:31] <Triskelios> CoolMa: same way you pass -L, when linking
[23:37:34] <codestr0m> wdp: thanks for the link on your blog..
[23:37:52] <wdp> codestr0m, bad?
[23:37:58] <CoolMa> ld.so.1: is complaining because a library is not found which I also installed into /usr/local/libxpdf:
[23:38:00] <codestr0m> wdp: not at all.
[23:38:14] <e^ipi> CoolMa: then fix the binary with elfedit
[23:38:20] <e^ipi> one of the examples in the man page is how to do that
[23:38:26] <hrist> wdp: where is your blog? :)
[23:38:26] <codestr0m> I'm reading stuff about ll as a result
[23:38:51] <hrist> e^ipi: wait? is that topic still active?
[23:38:56] <CoolMa> will look at elfedit ...
[23:39:25] <Triskelios> CoolMa: recompiling the software that uses the library is the best fix
[23:39:31] <eviljames> wdp: Yes, where is the blog?
[23:39:37] <wdp> sigh
[23:39:51] <hrist> hehe
[23:39:59] <CoolMa> I compiled the software with the correct path I thought
[23:40:41] <e^ipi> CoolMa: probably the correct link path, not the correct runtime path
[23:41:01] <e^ipi> LDFLAGS="-L/usr/local/lib -R/usr/local/lib" <blah>
[23:41:12] <e^ipi> using $ORIGIN is even better
[23:41:14] <wdp> hm
[23:41:18] <wdp> seems mplayer is not in there
[23:41:19] <wdp> sigh
[23:41:53] <CoolMa> thanks, will try again ...
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[23:48:19] <tomww> w00t : eeePC with Attentic L1 Ethernet-Interface now works with Solaris (SFEnicdrv-atge). Just install the package, do a reconfigre-reboot. Done.
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[23:49:29] <hrist> *attansic :)
[23:49:36] <hrist> and yay
[23:49:47] <hrist> my desktop/server/blubbmachine has the same nic
[23:49:57] <sickness> yeah
[23:50:01] <sickness> murayama++
[23:50:05] <sickness> attansic--
[23:50:05] <sickness> ;)
[23:50:35] <tomww> I've build the pacakge on snv99 and run it on the eeePC with build 103.
[23:50:46] <hrist> tomww: what's SFE?
[23:51:12] <tomww> SFEnicdrv.spec from the svn
[23:51:20] <tomww> svn up SFEnicdrv.spec
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[23:52:27] <tomww> then grab the package from ..../package/PKGS/SFEnicdrv-atge in case you have this on the other machine. ist 250kbytes for the whole package
[23:52:56] <Gman> tomww: congrats :)
[23:53:13] <tomww>  /opt/SUNWspro/bin/cc -V
[23:53:13] <tomww> cc: Sun Ceres C 5.10 SunOS_i386 2008/07/10
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[23:53:47] <tomww> no no, all this goes to the original maintainers of the spec file and *especially* to Masayuki Murayama
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[23:57:42] <jv__> is it possible to use a ipv6 over ipv4 tunnel in global zone and allocate a subnet for other interface and then route traffic over that interface from other zones?
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[23:59:13] <Triskelios> jv__: might require crossbow for per-zone routing





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