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[00:55:54] <snowleopardcat> hi
[00:56:26] <snowleopardcat> i have opensolaris 11.08 now in virtualbox
[00:57:22] <snowleopardcat> when booting how do i get it to show the boot proccess rather than the progress bar?
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[01:00:00] <e^ipi> snowleopardcat: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/816-5166/boot-1m?l=en&a=view&q=boot(1M)
[01:00:15] <jamesd> if its like regular solaris or sxce add -v  to the second boot line in grub
[01:02:27] <e^ipi> i trust it to only inform me about the relevant parts of booting, rather than a bunch of useless spew
[01:03:46] <e^ipi> though the graphical boot masks even that
[01:03:57] <e^ipi> but you can nuke those lines
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[01:10:16] <joshual> hi folks, does anyone know if I can install opensolaris (latest) using wubi?
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[01:11:08] <zimmermanc> no
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[01:12:11] <joshual> hmm bugger...
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[01:12:12] <e^ipi> aside from livecd's being annoying in general, i don't see why you'd bother
[01:12:32] <joshual> bother doing what?
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[01:12:40] <e^ipi> installing via windows
[01:12:50] <e^ipi> like wubi
[01:13:00] <joshual> oh... I just want to keep my windows installation (dual boot)
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[01:13:12] <joshual> I don't care how I do it...
[01:13:12] <e^ipi> and an install cd precludes this how?
[01:13:51] <joshual> with the install cd can I shrink the windows partition, and install opensolaris?
[01:14:04] <joshual> to dual boot?
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[01:15:00] <e^ipi> dunno, never tried it, i don't bother with multiple OS's on a single machine save through virtualization
[01:15:12] <e^ipi> give it a whirl, if the installer doesn't let you, then you can't
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[01:17:37] <Auralis> the installer doesn't let you. however if you free a partion by other means, you can use that to install solari sinto
[01:17:38] <joshual> k
[01:18:02] <joshual> ok I'll use gparted live cd for that
[01:18:11] <joshual> i'm currently running windows 7
[01:18:43] <joshual> it's pretty smooth, but other than the taskbar pretty much windows vista
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[01:19:42] <tsoome> screenshot tbh:P
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[01:20:42] <joshual> sure just a sec
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[01:24:10] <joshual> taking some time to upload...
[01:25:19] <joshual> tsoome: http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?img=/3/11/22/f_screen1m_1f8e542.png&srv=img32
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[01:25:51] <snowleopardcat> hi
[01:26:11] <snowleopardcat> how do I set the path so opensolaris uses the solaris userland?
[01:26:23] <snowleopardcat> rather than gnu?
[01:26:41] <tsoome> nice one
[01:27:30] <tsoome> esp the desktop picture:D
[01:27:44] <joshual> yeah :) deviantart
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[01:28:33] <prav33n> Do someone know a way to monitor CPU temperature and fan speed in 2008.11 RC2?
[01:28:35] <e^ipi> snowleopardcat: change your shell to ksh93 ( usermod -s /usr/bin/ksh93 <username> ) and edit ~/.profile
[01:28:44] <e^ipi> prav33n: write a driver for the monitors
[01:28:57] <e^ipi> alternately, infrared thermometer
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[01:29:25] <joshual> opensolaris latest screenshots look pretty hot too
[01:29:48] <prav33n> e^ipi, Does it mean that we can't monitor now?
[01:29:55] <joshual> i read in a few places that windows is considering giving windows 7 for free
[01:29:56] <pipes> joshual, yeah, I have been enjoying the new look release :)
[01:29:59] <e^ipi> that would be the implications of that, yes.
[01:30:15] <vmlemon_> Yay, Microsoft's answer to KDE4!
[01:30:17] * vmlemon_ duck
[01:30:18] <joshual> pipes i just lost the screenshot page, do you know where there are some?
[01:30:18] * vmlemon_ ducks
[01:30:44] <e^ipi> vmlemon: nonsense, that'd make it useful
[01:31:05] <vmlemon_> Well, the new taskbar looks superficially like KDE's
[01:31:12] <e^ipi> microsoft is quite adamant that that never happen
[01:31:23] <joshual> vmlemon it really does
[01:31:25] <e^ipi> even apple has a sane command line environment
[01:31:49] <vmlemon_> True
[01:32:05] <pipes> joshual, no idea, google? ;) http://preview.tinyurl.com/56rms3
[01:32:08] <vmlemon_> MS still has that crappy imitation of MS-DOS's CLI environment
[01:33:25] <vmlemon_> Still no virtual desktops implementation, lame
[01:33:55] <vmlemon_> Is the square box on the right of the taskbar functional?
[01:34:04] <vmlemon_> (I'd expect it to collapse/hide it)
[01:34:31] <joshual> whats does opensolaris use by default gnome?
[01:34:40] <vmlemon_> Yup
[01:34:50] <joshual> ah latest gnome?
[01:35:12] <Auralis> not latest, but only a few revisions behind, like 2 or so
[01:36:02] <joshual> i dont want to start any flame wars, so I'll state I like both KDE4 and gnome. But I've yet to see much of a real difference in useability from kde3 to kde4
[01:36:08] <snowleopardcat> opensolaris is better in virtualbox on my mac than when running on bare hardware
[01:36:32] <snowleopardcat> I can use my trackpad with gestures without needing a solaris driver to do it!
[01:37:20] <joshual> check out this screenshot of my system running windows 7
[01:37:22] <joshual> http://img185.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screen1gi7.png
[01:37:30] <joshual> has window previews
[01:40:52] <joshual> i think i'll use gparted live cd to shrink my windows, then install opensolaris... will it take care of the boot menu so I can boot into windows or opensolaris well?
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[01:41:21] <Auralis> its supposed to do so, but i dunno if it knows how to handle that with w7 yet
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[01:42:14] <joshual> Auralis: in that case I'll take the risk, I dont think windows 7 is that much different than vista
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[01:42:58] <joshual> Auralis: how is the speed of opensolaris, i know in the past people used to tell me it was slower than linux distros
[01:44:06] <Auralis> speed is fine here, can't complain
[01:44:40] <joshual> what is the actual purpose of Opensolaris?
[01:45:00] <Auralis> so far it looks like a desktop solaris variant
[01:45:05] <joshual> since there are already so many other choices we could make for a free OS ?
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[01:46:38] <joshual> it uses solaris kernel of course right?
[01:46:45] <Auralis> yes
[01:46:49] <joshual> maybe thats part of the why
[01:47:33] <e^ipi> it's not slower than linux distros, though it can occasionally be less responsive... benchmarks indicate it's got a hell of a lot more throughput though
[01:48:07] <e^ipi> and the reason for it is primarily to attract developer mindshare or whatever
[01:48:11] <joshual> and throughput is good right?
[01:48:21] <e^ipi> throughput is amazing
[01:48:28] <joshual> hehe okk
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[01:49:17] <joshual> well I'm excited
[01:50:01] <codestr0m> e^ipi: what are you making of the bakeoff benchmarks on the list which makes zfs look like a dog compared to ufs :P
[01:50:05] <joshual> actually windows 7 taskbar kinda rocks
[01:50:18] <e^ipi> codestr0m: url?
[01:50:35] <codestr0m> Re: [zfs-discuss] Performance bake off vxfs/ufs/zfs need some help
[01:50:43] <codestr0m> I'm reading the rest of the thread now
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[01:51:02] <e^ipi> there's probably a reason for it somewhere hidden in there
[01:51:11] <e^ipi> or not, i dunno
[01:52:23] <e^ipi> oh, oracle
[01:52:46] <e^ipi> yeah, someone reported some perf. problems with databases a while back IIRC
[01:52:52] <e^ipi> presumably someone's looking at it
[01:53:20] <e^ipi> and there are things in the evil tuning guide you can do to fix it
[01:53:21] <codestr0m> looks like a poor comparison
[01:54:04] <e^ipi> yeah, that's a pretty crap comparison actually
[01:54:43] <e^ipi> no separate intent log, disk config is all wonky,
[01:55:11] <e^ipi> it tells you as much as benching out a niagra w/ solaris and a nehelem with linux... on the surface they may look the same but they're really not
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[01:57:59] <snowleopardcat> hi e^ipi: how do I set my path permenatly to use the solaris userland?
[01:58:07] <e^ipi> in .profile
[01:58:16] <snowleopardcat> what do i put in .profle?
[01:58:22] <e^ipi> the PATH line
[01:58:25] <snowleopardcat> ok
[01:58:33] <e^ipi> same as you put on the command line itself
[01:58:40] <e^ipi> you'll need to log out and back in for it to take effect
[01:58:51] <snowleopardcat> how do i see what's in my path?
[01:59:09] <Auralis> echo $PATH
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[02:01:03] <e^ipi> snowleopardcat: the ksh93 manual page is an amazing read
[02:01:23] <e^ipi> i've learned more about unix from the ksh man page than using it for 10 years
[02:01:55] <snowleopardcat> i put this in my path: PATH=/usr/bin
[02:02:16] <snowleopardcat> err, .profile
[02:02:19] <e^ipi> now your path is only /usr/bin
[02:02:32] <snowleopardcat> ok i added the other stuff
[02:02:35] <e^ipi> separate path values with :
[02:03:13] <snowleopardcat> i knew this stuff once before, but i do it so rarely that I always forget
[02:03:25] <e^ipi> i keep /usr/bin after /usr/xpg6/bin:/usr/xpg4/bin
[02:03:41] <e^ipi> because i'd rather have the UNIX(R) tools than the svid tools
[02:03:50] <snowleopardcat> i don't have /usr/xpg6/bin
[02:03:54] <snowleopardcat> what's in there?
[02:04:06] <snowleopardcat> what's your full path?
[02:04:07] <e^ipi> the OpenGroup Single Unix Specification tools
[02:04:31] <snowleopardcat> so I can have the standard solaris userland?
[02:04:58] <snowleopardcat> thanks you
[02:04:58] <e^ipi> my path is /usr/xpg6/bin:/usr/xpg4/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/bin:/sbin:/usr/X/bin:/usr/X11/bin:/usr/ccs/bin:/opt/SUNWspro/bin:/usr/sfw/bin:/opt/local/bin:/usr/gnu/bin:/opt/grails/bin
[02:05:17] <e^ipi> /usr/bin is the standard solaris userland
[02:05:27] <e^ipi> i would rather have the standard UNIX userland
[02:05:45] <snowleopardcat> what's grails?
[02:05:49] <Gekz> wtf is xpg.
[02:06:02] <Auralis> man filesystem  explains
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[02:06:09] <e^ipi> Gekz: i just explained it twice, i'm not gonna do it again
[02:06:27] <e^ipi> snowleopardcat: grails is a web framework... like ruby on rails but not shit
[02:06:35] <Gekz> e^ipi: I mean, what does it actually stand for
[02:06:37] <e^ipi> it deploys to a regular java app server
[02:06:40] <Gekz> oh
[02:06:42] <Gekz> its there
[02:06:48] <Gekz>  OpenGroup Single Unix Specification tools
[02:06:57] <e^ipi> Gekz: X/open group
[02:07:40] <e^ipi> or something similar
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[02:44:41] <TrN> Hrrm.
[02:45:16] <snowleopardcat> man virtualbox is just suupercool
[02:45:24] <snowleopardcat> thanks sun
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[02:46:17] <snowleopardcat> I am in opensolaris, full screen, and if i do a four finger swipe across my trackpad I get a list of my OS X apps.
[02:46:31] <TrN> On my laptop, it won't boot unless I pass -B disable-audiohd=true to the kernel.  Gives a nasty kernel panic otherwise.
[02:46:43] <snowleopardcat> i'm using virtualbox
[02:47:09] <TrN> Oh, sorry for just bursting in, happens on bare hardware here for all Solaris since 9 for me. :b
[02:47:18] <TrN> snv_101b (RC2) 2008.11 included.
[02:47:29] <snowleopardcat> if I want to listen to music, i just use iTunes, and I'm in solaris
[02:47:44] <TrN> Virtualbox and VMware have slow IO. :b
[02:47:50] <TrN> I'd rather use xVM or Xen.
[02:48:00] <snowleopardcat> I gave up trying to run solaris on bare metal os x.  It doesn't recognize the usb keyboard in my macbook
[02:48:27] <snowleopardcat> seems fast here
[02:48:42] <snowleopardcat> 2 GB ram core 2 duo
[02:48:57] <TrN> CPU is almost no different in speed.
[02:49:08] <snowleopardcat> the ram probably helps
[02:49:30] <TrN> Compiling something extensive in vbox is about half the speed.
[02:49:43] <snowleopardcat> i haven't tried compiling postgresql yet
[02:49:49] <snowleopardcat> so you may be right
[02:50:15] <TrN> Actually about a 30-40% drop last time I tried to do that.
[02:50:25] <TrN> That's why I'm trying to get my audiohd working. :b
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[02:50:46] <Auralis> TrN: tried OpenSound instead of audiohd?
[02:50:57] <snowleopardcat> but i'll wait until  2008.11 is actually released before I spend the time to load
[02:51:15] <e^ipi> snowleopardcat: why compile it when it's in the repo?
[02:51:27] <TrN> Auralis: Not yet, but since it's essentially depreceated, I'd rather not.
[02:51:38] <TrN> (Even being an OSS fan, and having paid money back in the day.)
[02:51:45] <Auralis> only on linux
[02:51:46] <snowleopardcat> e^ipi: I add a bunch of custom probes and the windows function patch
[02:51:53] <TrN> The author has essentially quit on his blog.
[02:51:55] <e^ipi> it's got probes
[02:52:04] <TrN> So I'd assume that anything ongoing is just a Sun fork.
[02:52:05] <snowleopardcat> doesn't have the windows functions patch
[02:52:10] <snowleopardcat> :-)
[02:53:07] <e^ipi> i don't even know what that means, but if it has value talk to the guys in charge of the postgres port, they may be able to get it included
[02:53:15] <snowleopardcat> i backported the windows function patch that's upcoming in 8.4
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[02:54:39] <e^ipi> if you're going to do it, i suggest starting with the copy of postgres that's in the sfw consolidation rather than the vanilla version from upstream
[02:56:34] <snowleopardcat> http://www.orafaq.com/node/55
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[05:48:39] <high-rez> The usb images for opensolaris.  Should I be able to just dd them to a usb device ?
[05:48:48] <high-rez> Or is there something else that needs to be done?
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[06:04:22] <codestr0m> I'm getting more than slightly pissed off with trying to change this EFI labeled disk
[06:04:35] <codestr0m> format -e, remove the partitions.. save. quit
[06:04:54] <codestr0m> format -e again. l, select 0 for SMI.. and the Write label failed
[06:07:48] <codestr0m> make a new partition.. then it says the write succeeded.. go back and try to specify bootfs= ladda ladda.. and tells me it's EFI again
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[07:14:51] <venture37> hi guys
[07:15:10] <venture37> xvm broken on b101??
[07:15:25] <venture37> sorry
[07:15:33] <venture37> is xvm broken on b101?
[07:17:13] <e^ipi> nope, works for me
[07:17:44] <venture37> trying to boot the xvm kernel panics for me & the xen admin tool is missing from the taskbar for me
[07:17:54] <venture37> I've just done a fresh install
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[07:19:50] <cmihai`> "xen admin tool"?
[07:19:57] <cmihai`> Just use virsh.
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[07:20:16] <e^ipi> indeed
[07:20:44] <venture37> ok
[07:20:58] <venture37> just need to work out why the system wont boot the xvm kernel
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[08:21:48] <savager1> Hello people, I have searched a fair bit on google and cannot work out why this happens. I am running Solaris 5.10 on an old SPARC machine. I have just setup vnc and can connect successfully, however I cannot type anything when using gnome, but I can when using twm. Any ideas? (sorry I know this is opensolaris, but I tried to find #solaris but couldn't)
[08:23:15] <cmihai`> No idea why you'd be using VNC when you could use X over TCP, ssh -X, telnet with exported DISPLAY or just plain old telnet/ssh (hardly a need for a GUI).
[08:23:26] <cmihai`> gnome tends to bitch a bit when you have FQDN issues btw.
[08:24:12] <savager1> oh cool, I've heard about that (ssh -x) found it on google then got busy doing other stuff and forgot about it...
[08:24:18] <savager1> thanks for your reply...
[08:24:32] <savager1> so just ssh -x <ip address?>
[08:24:39] <savager1> on the client
[08:25:07] <cmihai`> http://unixsadm.blogspot.com/2007/10/x-forwarding-with-ssh-x-and-xming.html
[08:25:49] <savager1> thanks heaps mate!
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[08:41:31] <savager1> cmihai` - wow, it works really well...thanks heaps!
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[10:07:58] <preston> i have a audigy soundcard but no sound to begin with what if anything do i need to install?
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[10:11:29] <preston> anyone?
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[10:14:26] <kohju> preston, do you check OpenSoundSystem?
[10:14:31] <gonzzor> I get "Torrent unauthorisede" if I try to download osol-0811-rc2-global.iso.torrent... Is there any reason for this?
[10:14:54] <preston> kohju in my package installer?
[10:15:13] <kim0> Hi, I wanna be sure if ndd has problems with iprb driver .. where do I see that ?
[10:15:47] <kohju> i don't know audigy. but you check this site. http://www.opensound.com/solaris.html
[10:16:36] <kohju> but i guess you check  .....
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[10:17:23] <kohju> sometimes, oss supports the sound chip that not supported by opensolaris.
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[10:35:43] <kim0> what's the difference bet dladm show-phys and show-link .. ?!
[10:38:18] <Chipdancer> show-phys is for physical interfaces, show-link shows all interfaces, virtual or physical
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[10:54:09] <kim0> Chipdancer: thanks .. virtual interfaces .. like ?
[10:54:50] <jamesd> kim0, agregations and in the future... crossbow
[10:55:05] <kim0> I know about aggrs ...
[10:55:13] <Chipdancer> kim0: for started, aggregated/bonded interfaces, virtual interfaces for xVM (xen)
[10:55:14] <kim0> reading about crossbow .. thanks
[10:55:33] <yksinaisyyteni> show-link shows vlans, although since those are kind of hackish at the moment, it's possible show-phys does too
[10:55:34] <kim0> btw .. is Xen dom0 on opensolaris .. as good as it is on Linux ?
[10:56:05] <Chipdancer> kim0: I reckon better - you get zfs and solaris!
[10:56:09] <kim0> yksinaisyyteni: hackish coz of this   VID*1000+etherID right ?
[10:56:17] <yksinaisyyteni> yes
[10:56:40] <kim0> Chipdancer: we do already use solaris for those .. but I am asking specifically about Xen
[10:56:48] <kim0> r u using it in production say
[10:56:57] <yksinaisyyteni> kim0: zvols
[10:56:59] <kim0> I know redhat has put a lot of effort into shaping them
[10:57:09] <Chipdancer> kim0: well, I would if I was in a role that had that option.. for now, it's running both my primary home servers
[10:57:19] <Chipdancer> my only hardware that's barebones not solaris is my mythtv server
[10:57:29] <yksinaisyyteni> (one zvol per vm, you can snapshot, clone, etc)
[10:57:31] <kim0> ok I see..
[10:58:03] <kim0> I might be using ESXi at work soon .. backed by zvols for snapshots
[10:58:13] <kim0> I wonder if there are known integration scripts
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[11:00:57] <venba> Is there any plan to release sxce b101b respin publicly
[11:01:46] <venba> should i wait for it or install b101 available now?
[11:03:16] <jamesd> from the topic, i see the next will be 103... and i would wait for it, let things settle.
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[11:05:16] <venba> yes i know that b103 going tobe available. but i want b101 or it's respins as they are considered with low risk fixes only
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[11:08:02] <venba> i see opensolaris RC2 uses snv_101b. but downloads are available for sxce b101 only. does snv_101b for internal purpose only?
[11:09:12] <venba> i have downloaded b101 but if b101b respin is going to be available sometime then i would wait for it
[11:09:35] <venba> stil i'm running on snv_89
[11:12:25] <jamesd> well i'm only 89 here, i was hoping to move somewhere higher, but right now probably isn't a good point, since its a short week for sun because of thanksgiving, and IIRC all of sun except for essential employees may be off all week anyway.
[11:12:49] <jamesd> er  b94
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[11:13:51] <venba> ok thanks. then i would wait for a week before intalling b101
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[11:15:33] <codestr0m> jamesd: it was 6am when trying to get my efi labeled hd to smi.. and having some /issues/ is there any known problems with this. I was trying for an snv_97 livecd I have
[11:15:55] <codestr0m> my end goals was to have the zfs bootfs=rpool/rootfs
[11:16:02] <CosmicDJ> codestr0m: format in expert mode should do it
[11:16:09] <codestr0m> CosmicDJ: did that
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[11:16:44] <codestr0m> changed the label to 0
[11:17:00] <codestr0m> it said it worked. I create the pool.. try again.. and same result
[11:17:06] <codestr0m> I'd change it. reboot and same thing
[11:17:26] <jamesd> i used 94 to reformat a fcal drive and create a label.. of course a supposedly identical drive is having issues but could be damaged ... but i haven't seen anything in the change log related to  the format command in months unless zfs boot effected it.
[11:17:39] <CosmicDJ> "changed the label to 0" ? IIRC format is asking you (in export mode), if it should write an EFI or SMI label
[11:19:48] <codestr0m> type l then two choices.. [0] SMI Label [1] EFI Label.. then Warning: This disk has an EFI label. Changing to SMI label will erase all current partitions. y
[11:20:29] <codestr0m> bla bla.. You must use fdisk to delete the current EFI partition.. and I go do that.. come back.. relabel.. it says it worked and then.. it doesn'
[11:22:48] <jamesd> codestr0m, use dd to wipe the partition table on the disk... boot into linux if you have to...
[11:26:01] <codestr0m> jamesd: ok. good idea
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[11:48:04] <venba> Leaving
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[12:05:11] <steego> how do i change the timezone? (from shell)
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[12:12:09] <abisen> is there a way to import an already installed brandz
[12:12:31] <abisen> i have moved a ZFS Pool to a new machine and that had some brandZ installations
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[12:36:18] <Rarok> hi
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[13:15:03] <Auralis> abisen: maybe, tried the procedure for importing normal zones but altered for the brandz bits?
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[13:59:02] <CIA-34> fei feng - Sun Microsystems - Beijing China <Fei.Feng at Sun dot COM>: 6758563 update postinstall script to support Intel WiFi Link with device id 4236, 423a
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[14:15:06] <CosmicDJ> wow, they're working sundays in china...
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[14:17:37] <trygvis> isn't it just about monday morning over there?
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[14:22:33] <smtms> it should be sunday evening or night
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[14:25:25] <Gekz> its about 9pm on Sunday in China
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[14:28:58] <jbit> some people work on sundays in europe too ;-/
[14:30:03] <Gekz> it's just a day.
[14:30:13] <Gekz> in Oman, weekends are Thursday and Friday
[14:30:22] <_setuid_H> Hi all
[14:30:46] <smtms> people are allowed to commit to open source projects on Sundays
[14:30:50] <Gekz> lol.
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[14:37:07] <kaleb> I am trying to install freenet, and the scripts are trying to insert a line in my crontab, however it uses @reboot /blah/blah, and my crontab does'nt seem to support that way of doing it. What other means do I have of running a script at boottime in opensolaris indiana?
[14:38:29] <Auralis> thats what the init.d scripts are for
[14:38:40] <kaleb> Auralis: thanks :)
[14:39:08] <Auralis> and if you want to make it purty, create a smf manifest for the service
[14:39:26] <kaleb> Auralis: I dont think I have smf
[14:39:33] <Auralis> you do
[14:39:41] <kaleb> SunOS opensolaris 5.11 snv_96 i86pc i386 i86pc Solaris
[14:39:59] <kaleb> ok, how do I address it with smf manifest?
[14:40:51] <Auralis> http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/howtoguides/smfmanifesthowto.jsp
[14:41:22] <kaleb> Auralis: thank you, I will check it out :)
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[16:52:05] <plavcik> hi, I'm preparing machine with 4 identical disks, which will be then transfered to hosting centre, I'm thinking about ZFS with two mirrored disks and two spare disks, is that the most safe configuration? (wasted capacity is no issue in this case)
[16:53:10] <YazzY> plavcik: add one more disk and configure raid5
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[16:54:07] <plavcik> YazzY raid5 or raid-z?
[16:54:21] <nachox> you of course mean raidz :)
[16:54:31] <holcomb> is this for a root pool?
[16:54:34] <nachox> there is no raid5 in zfs
[16:55:24] <plavcik> root and data too, my understanding is, that with ZFS, it's better to give whole disk to one pool
[16:55:40] <holcomb> if it's for root, it can't be raidz
[16:55:55] <holcomb> and i don't know about spare devices... make it a three way mirror and try to add a spare
[16:56:05] <holcomb> if it won't work, just make it a 4-way mirror...
[16:56:11] <Asako> can I do raidz2 with 3 disks?
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[16:56:43] <nachox> no
[16:56:45] <kohju> Asako, you need 4disks.
[16:57:03] <Asako> ok
[16:57:10] <Stric> wrong.
[16:57:15] <nachox> if you want zfs root, i believe the best you can have is mirrored
[16:57:18] <Stric> you can do a raidz2 with 3 disks, but it's not smart
[16:57:32] <Asako> yeah, that's what I figured
[16:57:33] <Stric> 3 way mirror is much faster and can store the same amount of data
[16:57:59] <Asako> wouldn't raidz hold more?
[16:58:01] <kohju> does raidz2 have double parities?
[16:58:16] <Stric> raidz2 can hold data worth of Ndisks-2
[16:58:21] <Asako> since you have N*capacity
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[16:58:23] <Stric> N=3, then N-2 = 1
[16:58:31] <kohju> ah, only one disk + double parity.
[16:58:38] <kohju> ah ha....
[16:59:06] <Asako> I still need a way to transfer my lvm volumes onto zvols
[16:59:18] <plavcik> thx guys, I will use  3way mirror + 1 spare
[16:59:38] <Asako> and how can I create a domU in xvm without installing it?
[16:59:48] <nachox> ?
[16:59:51] <Stric> plavcik: which most often is way overkill
[16:59:54] <Asako> with centos I'd just copy the config files and rsync the disk
[17:00:18] <Asako> but then it complains about the boot loader missing
[17:00:30] <Stric> plavcik: you want higher read or write speed?
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[17:00:52] <plavcik> Stric: yes, I undestand that, but with ZFS and this configuration I will sleep well (hope:)
[17:01:03] <Asako> can zvols be mounted?
[17:01:13] <Stric> zvols are "disks"
[17:01:23] <Asako> I need to create an ext3 file system on it
[17:01:31] <Stric> if they contain a filesystem, then you can mount it
[17:01:39] <Stric> (if they contain a supported filesystem that is)
[17:01:43] <plavcik> Stric: yust to be safe, speed is ok
[17:02:07] <Stric> plavcik: if you want a bit higher read speed but a bit lower write speed, then go for 4way mirror
[17:02:10] <Asako> ld.so.1: mkfs.ext3: fatal: libintl.so.3: open failed: No such file or directory
[17:02:13] <nachox> zvols are block devices basically, but solaris cant create ext3 filesystems there
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[17:02:15] <Asako> hmm, that's not cool
[17:02:40] <e^ipi> you can give the zvol to a xen domain and have it create the fs
[17:02:53] <plavcik> Stric: ok, I will think about that too, thank you
[17:03:27] <Asako> yeah, I'm trying to migrate a domU that's already set up
[17:03:28] <nachox> cant he export it through iscsi, import the block device in linux and create the filesystem there too? :)
[17:04:01] <Asako> guess I could
[17:04:08] <Stric> there's more than one way to skin a cat
[17:04:30] <Asako> mkfs: FSType ext2 not installed in the kernel
[17:04:50] <nachox> solaris cannot create ext2 filesystems either
[17:05:02] <nachox> those are linux stuff, you need linux for that
[17:05:10] <Asako> ok
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[17:05:34] <Asako> I know what I'll do
[17:05:36] <e^ipi> create a temporary xen domain and load some livecd in it or smthn
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[17:06:57] <Asako> I hate iscsi on linux
[17:07:30] <e^ipi> s/iscsi on//g
[17:07:38] <e^ipi> :)
[17:07:39] <nachox> hehe
[17:07:56] <Asako> why does it try to mount exports on every IP?
[17:07:57] <e^ipi> can't speak nfs, can't speak iscsi... really, what good is it?
[17:08:10] <Asako> yeah, I can create tpgt
[17:08:27] <nachox> it can speak both, it just isnt a native speaker :P
[17:08:30] <Asako> but if I tell it to run discovery on one address, it shouldn't be adding more
[17:08:47] <Asako> cause now the disk shows up twice
[17:09:48] <Asako> the syntax for iscsitadm is a little weird, btw
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[17:11:38] <e^ipi> zfs set shareiscsi=on ?
[17:11:58] <Asako> did that
[17:12:17] <Asako> linux is just retarded
[17:12:31] <Asako> the more I work on solaris, the less I like linux
[17:12:36] <nachox> people insist on using it...
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[17:13:01] <e^ipi> Asako: that's pretty typical
[17:14:02] <xRaich[o]2x> Asako: yeah, had the same experience. ^^
[17:14:09] <nachox> nod, once people get over the initial shock related to command line differences in the most common utilities, they do not go back
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[17:14:21] <xRaich[o]2x> agreed
[17:14:31] <Asako> I'm kind of stuck with it, our whole business is linux servers
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[17:15:14] <e^ipi> as in, ISV, or as in "migration is expensive" ?
[17:15:28] <Asako> we're a web host
[17:15:41] <Asako> cpanel and plesk only work on redhat/centos
[17:15:44] <e^ipi> *nod*
[17:15:45] <nachox> just start adding solaris for the storage backend, you'll eventually end up migrating it
[17:15:53] <Asako> I'm trying
[17:15:54] <nachox> :)
[17:16:09] <Asako> like I want to move our backup boxes to zfs
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[17:16:21] <rewolf-> i often wonder why cpanel/plesk are so popular :(
[17:16:24] <Asako> running fsck on 1 TB sucks
[17:16:27] <e^ipi> didn't some community guys start working on some easy php admin thing that's vaguely cpanel-ish?
[17:16:38] <Asako> there's a bunch of them
[17:16:52] <Asako> but we sell what customers want
[17:17:02] <Asako> cpanel is a pain, but it's also revenue
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[17:17:21] <Asako> mount_ext2fs: Unknown code ext2 19 while trying to open /dev/zvol/dsk/xen/trek.phildo.org
[17:17:29] <e^ipi> another option is you could offer the option of solaris
[17:17:41] <Asako> we use solaris where we need it
[17:17:55] <Asako> got one customer with a solaris nfs cluster
[17:17:57] <nachox> what returned that result?
[17:18:00] <e^ipi> it's not easy to find someone selling cheap zones, it's all linux
[17:18:02] <Asako> since it's the only OS that works with windows clustering
[17:18:12] <Asako> iscsi v3
[17:18:46] <Asako> I'm trying to convince them to use solaris for xen accounts
[17:19:01] <nachox> doesnt ben sell cheap zones?
[17:19:41] <nachox> wait till sun releases the xVM stuff, that should ease xen management
[17:19:44] <Asako> I was considering it
[17:20:00] <Asako> it's easy to create linux vpses using zones
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[17:21:43] <Asako> bah
[17:21:50] <Asako> I can't mount this zvol
[17:22:05] <Asako> should I just format the raw disk in linux?
[17:22:32] <nachox> wasnt that the idea in the first place?
[17:22:35] <h3sp4wn> just compile e2fsprogs
[17:22:42] <Asako> yeah but I put a partition on it
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[17:23:43] <Asako> yeah, if you just format the whole disk it works
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[17:31:19] <e^ipi> nachox: no, ben sells expensive zones
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[17:33:32] <Asako> but I can't sell much, conflict of interest
[17:35:10] <e^ipi> well i meant your company, rather than you personally
[17:35:46] <rewolf-> who is ben ? :)
[17:35:52] <Asako> yeah, we already use virtuozzo
[17:36:00] <Asako> and linux-vserver for some really old accounts
[17:36:12] <e^ipi> rewolf-: joyent.com
[17:36:13] <nachox> OUCH, linux vservers?!
[17:36:30] * nachox implemented that long ago and it was painfull
[17:36:34] <rewolf-> e^ipi: ok ;)
[17:36:52] <Asako> is ext2fs read only?
[17:37:01] <Asako> nachox, yeah, those accounts are about 6 years old
[17:37:18] <nachox> i believe so
[17:37:20] <Asako> some of them have uptime of a few years
[17:37:23] <rewolf-> i used some entic.net for sol vps, but don't really know who is running it.
[17:37:33] <rewolf-> also i guess not endorsed by sun like joyent ;)
[17:37:43] <Asako> we switched to virtuozzo because vserver sucks
[17:37:44] <nachox> it is intended for people wantng to migrate from linux to solaris, they dont need write operations for that :)
[17:37:58] <Asako> heh, I do
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[17:38:35] <e^ipi> Asako: seriously set up a xen domain running whatever linux, give the zvol to it, and format it in there
[17:39:00] <e^ipi> trying to munge around with the ext2 driver for solaris is going to be way more painful than that
[17:39:03] <Asako> yeah
[17:39:33] <Asako> I can rsync from another box
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[17:40:56] <Tilt> i have a prolient dl560 with a SmartArray 5300, it's listed as being supported on bigadmin, but osol snv_86 doesn't seem to see it, has anybody installed on a sa5300 before ?
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[17:41:42] <Asako> amazing how much better I work in the morning
[17:42:15] <hrist> heh
[17:43:44] <zsh2> hi
[17:45:33] <Stric> Tilt: opensolaris doesn't have all the drivers that solaris has (not all of them are free due to more than sun being involved).. have you tried solaris (express) ?
[17:45:48] <Tilt> oh.. seems i need to make a disk... not the easiest solution since my cd-rom is being occupied by the install CD
[17:45:53] <Tilt> :(
[17:45:59] <zsh2> is this the correct channel to ask about 2008.11rc2?
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[17:48:42] <Auralis> just ask
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[17:49:49] <e^ipi> if your question is stupid, we'll tell you as much, don't worry
[17:49:54] <e^ipi> ;)
[17:51:24] <nachox> as usual, so friendly with newbies.... :P
[17:53:39] <zsh2> right I am new on solaris, I am interested to try crossbow
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[17:54:07] <zsh2> but it is not included in opensolaris 2008.11rc2
[17:54:28] <e^ipi> no, it's still in code review
[17:54:28] <nachox> what do you mean?
[17:54:55] <nachox> arent parts of crossbow included in solaris already?
[17:55:10] <zsh2> what does "still in code review" exactly means?
[17:55:30] <Stric> "not done/released yet"
[17:56:02] <zsh2> nachox: dladm has no "create-vnic"-option e.g.
[17:56:07] <nachox> "engineers that care about quality are still looking at it" :)
[17:56:16] <e^ipi> things integrate when they're vaguely stable, there's no experimental scratch-pad code in solaris
[17:56:38] <e^ipi> not in ON anyways
[17:57:03] <zsh2> 2008.11 is a production release, I guess
[17:57:05] <Asako> there's a bug in the xvm docs
[17:57:13] <Asako> virt-install has no such option as --ostype
[17:57:56] <zsh2> is there a developer version of opensolaris, with crossbow?
[17:58:06] <e^ipi> no, that's not how it works
[17:58:24] <e^ipi> the crossbow guys have their own ON tree here http://opensolaris.org/os/project/crossbow/snapshots/
[17:59:18] <zsh2> what means "ON"?
[17:59:31] <e^ipi> OS/Net
[17:59:43] <e^ipi> the core of the system... kernel, drivers, libraries, userland tools
[18:00:19] <zsh2> kann I install this this schnapshot on 2008.11rc2?
[18:00:29] <zsh2> kann==can
[18:01:09] <Tilt> for those who may be intrested... compaq smart array drivers for sol can be found @ ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/softlib2/software1/pubsw-windows/p1220948930/
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[18:02:20] <e^ipi> i'm not sure, you might need to build it, which would preclude 2008.11 for the moment
[18:02:37] <e^ipi> 1 sec
[18:03:06] <e^ipi> oh, no... you just download the nightly-nd bins and bfu
[18:03:11] <e^ipi> there's a link on how to bfu right on that page
[18:03:23] <e^ipi> underneath the table, "Tip: How to BFU a system."
[18:03:54] <zsh2> I have allready tried this, but without success, wait:
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[18:05:56] <zsh2> http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/1265143
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[18:09:48] <e^ipi> you will need to install SUNWonbld
[18:09:53] <e^ipi> the link's on that page
[18:10:48] <nachox> you might want to do that in a fresh BE just in case
[18:12:55] <zsh2> I have allready installed this package
[18:13:42] <zsh2> and I have /opt/onbld/
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[18:14:17] <eviljames> hmm.. dammit, I probably shouldn't have upgraded my pools to zfs 13.
[18:14:30] <eviljames> Now if I have to roll back to a version before, the pools will be unreadable?
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[18:16:04] <codestr0m> eviljames: umm. I may be mistaken, but I don't think there's anyway to rollback a zfs upgrade
[18:16:16] <codestr0m> (someone please correct me if I'm wrong)
[18:16:26] <eviljames> Right, but in theory I can move to an older BE
[18:16:59] <e^ipi> and your older be still won't be able to read your zpool
[18:17:01] <eviljames> So if I roll back to an earlier boot environment, say on build 86, my system will be unbootable.
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[18:17:27] <eviljames> e^ipi: that's what I had figured.  thanks.
[18:17:27] <e^ipi> zsh2: did you read the guide on http://blogs.sun.com/stw/entry/how_to_bfu_a_system to BFU, or something else?
[18:17:39] <nachox> bes live in zfs filesystems, you cant go back to something thad does not understand that zfs version
[18:17:58] <eviljames> nachox: oui, merci.
[18:19:53] <twisti> codestr0m, Finally got the mousetweak thing built.
[18:20:18] <zsh2> e^ipi: yes I have used this guide, but with the bfu.sh script from crossbow, I will try it now with /opt/onbld/bin/bfu
[18:21:06] <e^ipi> zsh2: i don't see in that guide anywhere that it tells you to use bfu.sh
[18:21:08] <codestr0m> twisti: did you document it?
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[18:21:29] <e^ipi> so then you didn't follow the guide... follow the guide.
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[18:21:43] <twisti> codestr0m, Not yet, but I'll write a blog about it.
[18:21:58] <e^ipi> it's a good guide... :)
[18:22:10] <twisti> Actually, what's the reason GPLv3 code is not shipped?
[18:22:30] <zsh2> e^ipi: OK
[18:23:01] <nachox> sun legal probably didnt yet accept the licence
[18:24:23] <e^ipi> it's a very toxic license
[18:24:24] <h3sp4wn> The xvm server webif is under GPLv3]
[18:25:37] <zsh2> e^ipi: is this a problem: "/tmp/bfu.6621[3151]: /net/onnv.eng/export/onnv-gate/public/bin/acr: cannot open [No such file or directory]"?
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[18:25:49] <e^ipi> follow the guide.
[18:25:53] <nachox> xvm is not yet shipped with solaris
[18:26:17] <e^ipi> you need /opt/onbld/bin in your $PATH
[18:27:14] <codestr0m> e^ipi: stupid question.. zpool create rpool c4t0d0p0 ; zfs create rpool/rootfs ; zpool set bootfs=rpool-rootfs rpool works
[18:27:31] <codestr0m> the question is.. do I need to set zpool set bootfs if zfs takes the whole disk
[18:27:47] <e^ipi> if zfs takes the whole disk, you cannot boot off it
[18:27:50] <e^ipi> so, no
[18:28:22] <codestr0m> so the work-around is to make p0 bootable
[18:28:48] <codestr0m> and have that just take the whole disk essentially (minus space for grub or whatever)
[18:28:58] <e^ipi> what are you trying to do ?
[18:29:26] <codestr0m> screwing around with a by hand install. becoming more familiar with fdisk, format and some other tools (mostly learning)
[18:29:48] <e^ipi> your best bet would be to read the caiman source
[18:29:51] <codestr0m> I thought if zfs doesn't have the whole disk it turns off something. I forget
[18:29:59] <e^ipi> yeah, write cache
[18:30:12] <codestr0m> exactly.
[18:30:30] <e^ipi> because it can't guarantee sanity for the filesystem if something else is accessing the disk
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[18:31:01] <codestr0m> ok. stupid question. so technically grub is on a ufs partition in all the single disk installs?
[18:31:03] <Stric> but it also changes from sun vtoc to EFI tables.. which isn't supported to boot from
[18:31:25] <e^ipi> no, technically grub needs to write to the bios boot block because x86 is retarded
[18:31:40] <e^ipi> zsh2: here's another guide: http://www.blastwave.org/articles/BLS-0032/onv16_onv17_BFU.html
[18:32:03] <codestr0m> Stric: yeah. I was for some reason thinking that the SMI/vtoc partition could take the whole disk and I could zfs create on that as long as the disk was under 1T
[18:32:34] <e^ipi> need #1 efi boot support, #2 PC's to ship with EFI
[18:33:02] <e^ipi> though that probably still won't solve the problem, because efi requires a fat32 partition on the disk
[18:33:16] <e^ipi> because efi is retarded too
[18:33:16] <codestr0m> ok. what about zfs support in grub?
[18:33:23] <e^ipi> what about it, it's there
[18:34:32] <e^ipi> not in vanilla grub, because upstream wants everyone to use grub2, despite nobody using grub2, so they won't take patches for features
[18:34:44] <e^ipi> but our fork of it's got it
[18:34:52] <codestr0m> gotcha. yeah. debian does as well
[18:35:01] <e^ipi> does what, have zfs boot support?
[18:35:05] <codestr0m> what confused me was this zpool create rpool c4t0d0p0 works and zpool create rpool c4t0d0 doesn't
[18:35:12] <codestr0m> e^ipi: correct
[18:35:23] <e^ipi> how odd of them
[18:35:38] <codestr0m> (shrugs)
[18:35:51] <codestr0m> may have something to do with nexenta
[18:35:58] <e^ipi> maybe the armchair revolutionaries that comprise most of the debian community were on a break or something
[18:36:04] <h3sp4wn> Debian has such as kfreebsd (which may have zfs support by now)
[18:36:29] <jbit> h3sp4wn: iirc, it doesn't
[18:36:44] <e^ipi> they've been talking about it for damn near a decade
[18:36:48] <jbit> h3sp4wn: since debians kfreebsd uses a lot of GPL code and they were worried about possible license issues
[18:36:55] <codestr0m> mostly looking for a 2nd opinion that zpool create rpool c4t0d0p0 looks correct  and zpool create rpool c4t0d0 doesn't
[18:36:59] <e^ipi> they've yet to have anything to show for it
[18:37:42] <codestr0m> I just don't get why zpool create rpool c4t0d0 would change the partition label to efi automagically
[18:37:58] <Stric> because zpool will
[18:38:10] <e^ipi> because that's how zfs works?
[18:38:12] <Stric> its code says so ;)
[18:38:33] <codestr0m> I need to read more on efi vs vtoc/smi
[18:38:36] <tsoome> maybe, just maybe, read manual?
[18:38:45] <Auralis> because its x86 and c4t0d0 is missing the partion indicator?
[18:39:12] <codestr0m> Auralis: yeah, but in the guides I saw..  I'll look again, but I don't remember seeing a partition label
[18:39:25] <e^ipi> for booting? doubtful
[18:39:32] <e^ipi> for creating a zpool in general, likely
[18:39:37] <e^ipi> it's better to give it the whole disk
[18:39:46] <e^ipi> but x86 is retarded, so that can't really happen
[18:40:04] <e^ipi> blame intel circa 1980
[18:40:11] <e^ipi> or IBM
[18:40:27] <jbit> wasn't the partition crap microsoft? ;P
[18:40:54] <e^ipi> for that matter blame intel circa now, i see no reason why efi couldn't mandate nvram or flash to store the boot efi apps rather than the system disk
[18:42:02] <jbit> i still don't see why efi exists, why not use open firmware (other than the "not made here" issue)
[18:42:13] <e^ipi> mostly just the NIH issue
[18:42:24] <jbit> sigh
[18:42:43] <codestr0m> jbit: what's your experience with open firmware.. does it support modern hw?
[18:42:45] <e^ipi> intel made itanium and damned if they were gonna use any industry standards with it
[18:42:51] <jbit> codestr0m: yes
[18:42:52] <e^ipi> codestr0m: define modern
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[18:43:00] <jbit> e^ipi: the correct answer is yes ;P
[18:43:00] <e^ipi> it ships on the niagra boxes
[18:43:11] <e^ipi> seems pretty modern to me
[18:43:11] <Stric> codestr0m: it's a framework..
[18:43:13] <tsoome> define non-modern:D
[18:43:16] <codestr0m> e^ipi: dell precision M2300,M2400
[18:43:18] <jbit> openfirmware is easily extensible, so it can support damnwell near anything
[18:43:24] <e^ipi> codestr0m: x86
[18:43:28] <e^ipi> ships with BIOS
[18:43:35] <e^ipi> not ofw
[18:43:38] <jbit> there are openfirmware implementations for x86
[18:43:40] <tsoome> x86 is not modern;)
[18:44:08] <e^ipi> bios was developed quite a fair bit before ofw
[18:44:26] <e^ipi> ofw was a reaction to retarded firmware like pcbios
[18:44:54] <codestr0m> umm. what I think I meant to ask.. is that open firmware has to support a multitude of mb chipsets (I assume) so I just assume more than I can't just update my bios to open firmware..
[18:45:19] <jbit> codestr0m: this is correct
[18:45:25] <e^ipi> no, you couldn't boot anything off it either even if you could because the OS's don't understand x86+ofw
[18:45:44] <jbit> also the issue is expansion hardware not shipping with openfirmware expansion roms
[18:45:54] <e^ipi> everything other than x86 and itanic use ofw though
[18:45:55] <Auralis> the older powermacs did use openfirmware as well
[18:46:10] <nachox> power does too?
[18:46:13] <e^ipi> yep
[18:46:30] <vmlemon_> Hmm, any issues with compatibility between devices with x86 BIOS Option ROMs and EFI-based systems?
[18:46:46] <jbit> vmlemon_: afaik, there is no compatibility
[18:46:50] <vmlemon_> Aah
[18:47:16] <jbit> although in theory you could emulate the BIOS option roms in a simple x86 emulator
[18:47:19] <e^ipi> video cards are so intimately tied to the boot firmware it's ridiculous
[18:47:19] <jbit> (x11 does this)
[18:47:25] <codestr0m> what's about that linux bios project
[18:47:31] <e^ipi> you ought to be able to bring up a video card no matter where in the boot process you are
[18:47:40] <e^ipi> but, that's x86 legacy for you
[18:47:51] <tsoome> what is linux bios projevt?
[18:47:54] <jbit> e^ipi: havring lots of different video cards is fun too
[18:47:57] <tsoome> project*
[18:47:58] <vmlemon_> (e.g. some NICs and HBAs for various standards)
[18:47:58] <e^ipi> tsoome: coreboot
[18:48:14] <jbit> e^ipi: especially in hte old days (~2000) where every driver under the sun assumed hte bios had bought up the card ;P
[18:48:28] <jbit> so when the card was running as a "non-primary" card all hell broke lose
[18:48:34] <codestr0m> so what's the viability of something like coreboot?
[18:48:46] <e^ipi> jbit: yeah, i love how i can't just chuck any old video card in a sparc and expect it to work too, because the card expects BIOS to bring it online
[18:49:09] <jbit> there have actually been stories about certain cards over heating and dying
[18:49:19] <e^ipi> if microsoft decided to support EFI boot, everyone would immediately migrate to it because legacy pcbios is just that dumb
[18:49:20] <jbit> because their hardware design assumed they'd be setup within a few seconds
[18:49:45] <e^ipi> efi's pretty retarded in it's own right too, but it's an improvement
[18:49:58] <nachox> dont they support it in itanium at least?
[18:50:05] <Andrew2> Microsoft announced ages ago they would only be supporting EFI boot.
[18:50:06] <e^ipi> they would have to
[18:50:14] <e^ipi> itanium only has efi
[18:50:15] <jbit> open firmware seems "good" to me, has its issues (yuck, fcode, etc) but seems decent
[18:50:16] <Andrew2> They kept putting it off though.
[18:50:28] <e^ipi> jbit: meh, fcode's alright
[18:50:38] <e^ipi> much better than not having any functionality at all
[18:50:49] <jbit> e^ipi: also, some motherboard mfgs are suplying EFI bioses
[18:51:00] <jbit> because they're getting pissed with microsoft not taking the lead
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[18:51:25] <jbit> vista sp1 supports efi boot btw
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[18:52:06] <Andrew2> microsoft did take the lead -- it told the m/b manufacturers what they had to have on their m/b's in the future.
[18:52:37] <e^ipi> MS needs to quit dicking around and get with the program
[18:52:49] <zsh2> e^ipi: one more question to bfu, could I ignore this 3 files? http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/1265168
[18:52:51] <jbit> microsoft taking the lead would have been "all x64 versions of windows require EFI or an EFI wrapper layer"
[18:53:14] <e^ipi> zsh2: unless you've modified them in the past, probably fine
[18:53:37] <zsh2> I do not have this files
[18:53:50] <e^ipi> jbit: or at least "vista will boot off both. windows7 will not. there's your grace period"
[18:54:11] <jbit> e^ipi: right
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[18:54:31] <jbit> really supporting hte bios for x64 is nasty though
[18:54:40] <nachox> is there any x86 isv providing efi other than intel?
[18:54:42] <Andrew2> Also told the m/b manufacturers to get rid of the LPC bus
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[18:54:44] <jbit> if you look at how many cpu mode switches are in a normal x86 boot sequence these days....
[18:55:01] <jbit> masta: i know some MSI motherboards do.. but thats not an entier system
[18:55:27] <jbit> err s/masta/nachox/
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[18:56:14] <YazzY> masta: you here?
[18:56:31] <YazzY> i didnt know you were into solaris :)
[18:57:11] <GKarr> Everyone is into OpenSolaris. They just don't know it, yet :)
[18:57:21] <GKarr> Just saying
[18:58:00] <zsh2> e^ipi: ok, I will now reboot, perhabs I am able to come back
[18:58:36] <zsh2> e^ipi: thank you for your help
[18:58:58] <jbit> GKarr: or they don't like admitting it ;P
[18:59:04] <jbit> seems it still has some sort of stigma
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[18:59:44] <e^ipi> jbit: it's like a betrayal of linux or something to use something actually good for a change
[19:00:29] <jbit> e^ipi: i don't know, it seems more "it used to not be free, and now it's free... so i don't know what to make of it"
[19:00:48] <jbit> because "not-free == bad" of course
[19:01:15] <e^ipi> naturally
[19:01:34] <GKarr> I can't find the answer to this question on the mailing lists but I think it was answered in the beginning as the distro of Ian was developed: Why did the devs of the OpenSolaris distro choose an own package format (IPS it is called) and _not_ use pkgsrc - although there are many people who use pkgsrc on even Solaris - I mean the "old" propriatary one - and also on SXCE and so on ?
[19:02:02] <bda> sigh.
[19:02:10] <e^ipi> GKarr: well, not pkgsrc because IPS was intended as a binary package manager
[19:02:16] <e^ipi> not source
[19:03:12] <GKarr> the tools of pkgsrc can handle binary packages "very" well ( there are some minus points but all in all they are okay)
[19:03:35] <nachox> GKarr, read dr. hahn's blog
[19:03:38] <jbit> isn't IPS designed to exploit ZFS?
[19:03:42] <e^ipi> yeah
[19:03:47] <nachox> he explains it all there
[19:03:59] <nachox> or at least provides links with the relevant explanation
[19:04:13] <GKarr> I mean pkgsrc has all the packages - the build scripts and corresponding patches and all these things neccessary - developed and fixed etc. They could just use and only have to refine it
[19:04:24] <e^ipi> could've, didn't.
[19:04:31] <e^ipi> they did an evaluation of a bunch of package managers
[19:04:39] <jbit> could have used apt too, didn't
[19:04:44] <codestr0m> e^ipi: that's not true at all
[19:04:52] <GKarr> nachox: i will serach for it and read it. Thanks
[19:05:02] <GKarr> s/serach/search/
[19:05:02] <codestr0m> I asked pkg5 what they evaluated and the answer was not much/no
[19:05:04] <nachox> you can explain all about pkgsrc and we still would not care..., what's done is done
[19:05:24] <codestr0m> what they did is blog/document about some of the common rants and start from scratch afaik
[19:05:37] <codestr0m> and there's probably some internal use cases they are building for which aren't public
[19:06:05] <Asako> not like learning IPS is hard...
[19:06:19] <Asako> but apt has had years of use
[19:06:20] <jbit> Asako: i think the point is more the existing packages for pkgsrc
[19:06:26] <codestr0m> Asako: not like hacking IPS to get it to do some very important things is hard <sarcasm />
[19:06:58] <Asako> of course I think pkgadd is fine too
[19:07:02] <dustman> pkgsrc is not ideal for solaris
[19:07:06] <codestr0m> I have to avoid this argument.. I can get highly technical and the bottom line reason is *because* in the end
[19:07:28] <dustman> using sun pro instead of gcc is complicated
[19:07:39] <dustman> with pkgsrc I mean
[19:07:46] <codestr0m> dustman: wouldn't cw help with that?
[19:07:56] <dustman> cw?
[19:08:03] <codestr0m> and yes. I agree pkgsrc is the wrong tool for the job as well
[19:08:07] <nachox> makefiles use gcc only extentions? it relies on gnu make?
[19:08:18] <dustman> no, bsd make
[19:08:24] <dustman> bmake on solaris
[19:08:38] <jbit> too many varients of make imho
[19:08:45] <nachox> hehe
[19:09:04] <jbit> gmake,nmake,bmake,etc
[19:09:04] <codestr0m> jbit: just port it all over to jam and be happy ;)
[19:09:10] <jbit> ugh, jam
[19:09:14] <Asako> what is jam?
[19:09:15] * codestr0m hides
[19:09:29] <jbit> Asako: perforces build system
[19:10:01] <Asako> never used it
[19:10:06] <dustman> I use pkgsrc for simple minimalist packages which are not that popular in official and blastwave's repos
[19:10:10] <jbit> it's actually not-too-bad, but there are lots of abuse cases
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[19:10:39] <Asako> [root@vserver12 root]# uptime
[19:10:39] <Asako>   1:05pm  up 472 days, 21:24,  1 user,  load average: 0.27, 0.42, 0.26
[19:10:42] <Asako> nice
[19:10:45] <GKarr> Fact is: There are people who use pkgsrc even for their "professional" setups
[19:10:52] <codestr0m> Asako: uptime is overrated :)
[19:10:54] <GKarr>  I mean at work
[19:11:07] <Asako> yeah, still running a really old distro
[19:11:19] <GKarr> And the OpSol guys and gals could just set upon this experience and knowledge
[19:11:20] <dustman> GKarr: I *like* pkgsrc
[19:11:20] <e^ipi> GKarr: good for them, we still don't care
[19:11:27] <Asako> redhat 7.3, at least it's stable
[19:11:35] <dustman> but it's not the best for solaris/osol
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[19:11:41] <e^ipi> GKarr: it's over. just deal with it, the rest of us have
[19:11:57] <codestr0m> Asako: didn't it hit eol? and AS 2.1 was supported longer than 7.3 if that's what you're referring to
[19:12:05] <e^ipi> if you want to join the bitch-fest about it, go back in time a year and a half
[19:12:05] <Asako> long time ago
[19:12:06] <jbit> i have a box that still runs something derived from redhat 5.2 ;P
[19:12:11] <jbit> not out of choice mind
[19:12:40] <GKarr> Okay. Understand.
[19:13:00] <Asako> as if the world needs another packaging system
[19:13:03] * codestr0m agrees with e^ipi
[19:13:13] <codestr0m> :D
[19:13:14] <jbit> but the nice thing about opensolaris is you could  use whatever package system you want (see:nexenta, etc)
[19:13:25] <dustman> GKarr: if you really want to use it, you can
[19:13:34] <zsh> e^ipi: yeah, I am up and running with crossbow, it seams that it worked fine, thank you
[19:13:44] <GKarr> dustman: i know :)
[19:13:51] <e^ipi> there are things that i'm not happy with, but just get over it because you can bitch and moan all you want and it's not going to do a lick of good. either start your own distro, install your own tools, or shut up
[19:14:08] <e^ipi> if you want a pkgsrc based distro, go build one
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[19:14:22] <dustman> heh
[19:14:27] <Asako> or port zfs to netbsd
[19:14:44] <jbit> it does seem good that most discussions about opensolaris using <something> seem to be more based on "why" rather than "<something> sucks!"
[19:15:00] <e^ipi> indiana is Sun's distro. Sun calls the shots. if you don't like that, go start your own, it's open-source, you're allowed to do that
[19:15:15] <e^ipi> the Belenix and Nexenta guys did
[19:15:30] <jbit> and maybe if you do it well sun will steal your stuff ;P
[19:15:34] <bda> Or just use pkgsrc on Solaris. Plenty of people do, happily.
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[19:15:53] <e^ipi> indeed
[19:15:54] <GKarr> e^ipi: Okay. Okay. No reason to go angry. Cool down. I wanted to learn the "offical" reason behind the choice.
[19:15:58] <Asako> wonder if I can put pkgsrc on nexenta
[19:16:01] <dustman> jbit: yeah, 'steal'
[19:16:03] <bda> Why not?
[19:16:08] <jbit> dustman: :P
[19:16:14] <Asako> their apt repos are missing a lot of stuff
[19:16:16] <jbit> dustman: it's open source, they're allowed!
[19:16:18] <e^ipi> i'm not angry *shrug* just explaining it
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[19:16:23] <dustman> you get whole damn system for free and they 'steal' from you
[19:16:26] <GKarr> For example i could not find any link to dr. hahn's blog and similar explanations
[19:16:28] <h3sp4wn> sort of happily (if you want to use sunpro for multimedia stuff its a pita they haven't fixed it properly)
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[19:16:39] <e^ipi> GKarr: blogs.sun.com/sch
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[19:16:45] <Asako> I still can't get MPD to compile
[19:16:48] * bda has a Mac or multimedia stuff. :)
[19:16:50] <jbit> dustman: indeed, damn them! ;P
[19:16:57] * bda uses Solaris for actual work.
[19:17:06] <Asako> and I tried building ushare, that fails
[19:17:37] <Asako> yeah, I could build a linux zone but that's extra work
[19:17:49] <jbit> hrm i got ushare compiled without much trouble
[19:18:11] <jbit> unfortuantly my solaris box is dead right now so cant let you know how (the hdd with the rootfs died ;( )
[19:18:22] <e^ipi> always mirror your boot drive
[19:18:30] <jbit> yeah well...
[19:18:36] <Asako> that sucks
[19:18:45] <jbit> its not an important machine (its a home media server)
[19:19:00] <Asako> any xen users here?
[19:19:11] <Auralis> and? all my home machine shave mirrored boot drives
[19:19:24] <Auralis> even my 15 years old firewall
[19:19:36] <jbit> Auralis: heh, i'm going to setup my laptop to boot from the media server
[19:19:47] <dustman> Auralis: you run osol for firewall?
[19:20:07] <jbit> but yeah when i replace the root drive i'll probably mirror it
[19:20:10] <Auralis> dustman: no, sol9 anything more modern does not run on the old lady
[19:20:12] <jbit> hdds are so cheap right now
[19:20:29] <dustman> Auralis: still, that's overkill imo
[19:20:49] <Auralis> it does a litle mor ethen simply firewall
[19:21:05] <Asako> my xvm domain doesn't like my root device
[19:21:09] <jbit> it also depends on wha hte firewall itself is doing
[19:21:14] <Asako> Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block(8,1)
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[19:22:57] <awj> Ok, I'm certain there has to be an easy way to fix this.
[19:23:08] <Asako> it should just see the zvol as a regular disk
[19:23:13] <awj> I've got a 101b opensolaris server that I'm trying to use as an nfs server.
[19:23:32] <awj> It's denying all the clients on my local network with because they are "unknown hosts"
[19:23:43] <jbit> Asako: sounds liek the kernel lacks a driver for the disk?
[19:24:05] <quasi> not really
[19:24:26] <awj> I do have each of them in the hosts file, and even set up a DNS server to resolve them, and can ping with hostnames, but trying to NFS mount still gives the Permission denied error on the client, and "unknown host denied" error on the server.
[19:24:27] <Asako> should be sda
[19:25:03] <awj> Anyone have any idea how to fix this?  Ideally, I'd just use IP addresses for the client and servers, but that doesn't appear to be an option.
[19:25:05] <Asako> disk = ['phy:/dev/zvol/dsk/xen/trek.phildo.org,sda1,w', 'file:/xen/swap/trek.phildo.org.swap,sda2,w']
[19:25:06] <nachox> sch is still part of the ips team right?
[19:25:31] <e^ipi> Asako: any reason you're not using virsh/virt-install ?
[19:25:48] <Asako> this domain already exists on another server
[19:25:59] <Asako> it's just an lvm volume
[19:26:07] <jbit> Asako: how did you share your zfs filesystem as nfs?
[19:26:30] <awj> zfs sharenfs="options" {zfs name}
[19:26:36] <Asako> hmm, maybe I could do that
[19:26:47] <awj> man share_nfs to find valid values for options
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[19:27:01] <e^ipi> 'on' is also a valid option
[19:27:03] <jbit> awj: what options though? you usually need to tell the os which comptuers should be allowed rw and ro access
[19:27:18] <Asako> rw=
[19:27:23] <awj> sharenfs=on will share it to everyone.
[19:27:37] <awj> Which is likely fine for a local network.
[19:27:55] <awj> If you need access control, man share_nfs has examples.
[19:28:10] <e^ipi> yes
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[19:30:00] <Asako> fark
[19:30:10] <Asako> I keep getting interrupted in the middle of my thoughts
[19:31:55] <nachox> think faster
[19:32:16] <Asako> then stuff gets screwed up
[19:32:33] <jbit> remove the distractions
[19:32:43] <jbit> use a shotgun if required
[19:32:48] <Asako> heh
[19:33:10] <Asako> too much going on at once
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[19:33:42] <nachox> may i suggest land mines too? that's passive just in case someone approaches to disturbe your thoughts
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[19:34:00] <Asako> that's just life here
[19:34:05] <Asako> gotta have ADD to work
[19:34:42] <jbit> at work i just say "fuck off" if people approach me, it's up to them to decide if i'm being ironic/funny/sarcastic or serious
[19:34:48] <jbit> makes life simple
[19:34:53] <Asako> yeah
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[19:35:28] <nachox> i just get a good pair of headphones and ignore everyone, they can always send a mail
[19:35:47] <jbit> yeah i have the ear plug type
[19:35:48] <Asako> it would be nice if rsync told you there's not enough space before it runs
[19:35:55] <jbit> and we have internal IRC at work
[19:35:58] <jbit> really people have no excuse
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[19:36:04] <Asako> we have a jabber server
[19:36:22] <jbit> we have IRC and "microsoft office communicator"
[19:36:30] <sbahra> We have social interaction skills.
[19:36:32] <Asako> used to be irc
[19:37:12] <trochej> WE have a door
[19:37:16] <jbit> sbahra: we do at work too, but it's not nice to use them when people are working
[19:37:20] <jbit> it leads to:
[19:37:20] <jbit> 19:31:52 < Asako> I keep getting interrupted in the middle of my thoughts
[19:37:28] <e^ipi> i work from my living room and aside from the cats, the only  way to disturb me is email, or IRC if i'm half doing something and have irc on the other screen
[19:37:39] <trochej> Really effective
[19:37:41] <nachox> we have shouts and dangeoursly sharp pens to throw at each other
[19:37:44] <Asako> hehe
[19:37:49] <jbit> e^ipi: cats can be pretty damn distracting
[19:37:57] <Asako> my cat likes to block the monitor
[19:38:14] <jbit> you can just throw cats outside though
[19:38:20] <nachox> e^ipi, sun provided you with a sun ray? the laptop version? :)
[19:38:21] <jbit> you can't do the same with coworkers
[19:38:28] <nachox> of course you can
[19:38:38] <e^ipi> i have a monitor shelf as part of my desk just to raise the screens up for ergonomic reasons, cat sleeps underneath it
[19:38:40] <jbit> nachox: not as easily ;P
[19:38:41] <Asako> lol
[19:38:48] <e^ipi> occasionally stretches and kicks my mouse to the floor but w/e
[19:39:11] <e^ipi> nachox: no, i've got a U40, sunray is painful with the crap internet connection i've got
[19:39:33] <nachox> jbit, depends, if you're their boss, you just need to sign a paper, you dont even need to get up, easier than with the cat
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[19:39:55] <jbit> nachox: unfortuantly we have a flat company strucutre ;~
[19:40:04] <nachox> that doesnt scale
[19:40:14] <jbit> maybe we dont want to scale?
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[19:40:22] <Asako> went through that phase already
[19:40:31] <Asako> grew from 10 people to 150
[19:40:32] <nachox> isnt that the purpose of a business?
[19:40:38] <jbit> we make video games, more people doesnt mean better product
[19:40:42] <jbit> same with any art form
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[19:41:03] <Asako> you still need marketing, etc.
[19:41:15] <jbit> thats usually external
[19:41:39] <Asako> it also sucks running out of disk space doing mysql imports
[19:41:52] <Asako> and can we please get rid of the need for perror?
[19:41:56] <jbit> yes, but i don't think that's related to managment structure
[19:41:58] <jbit> ;P
[19:42:12] <Asako> don't tell me error 28, just say "disk full"
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[19:42:54] <Asako> I still need to mess with mysql and zfs compression
[19:44:38] <e^ipi> jbit: which company ?
[19:44:53] <jbit> e^ipi: IO Interactive
[19:45:05] <windswept> Should solaris 10 recognize the SAS drives and raid in a SUN X2100?
[19:45:05] <e^ipi> neat
[19:45:09] <jbit> (we make hitman)
[19:45:19] <Asako> cool
[19:45:27] <e^ipi> that was a decent game
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[19:45:52] <jbit> and an average film!
[19:46:01] <e^ipi> didn't see the film
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[19:46:33] <jbit> film wasn't made by us of course, but still cool when you get a film made ;P
[19:48:03] <nachox> hahaha
[19:48:18] <e^ipi> my brother's in games... he has an easier time explaining to the family what he does than I do
[19:48:35] <jbit> i actually find it's hard explaining what i do
[19:48:59] <jbit> "so you make games?" "yeah" "so you make all the characters and story lines" "no, thats artists, creators" "so what do you do.."
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[19:49:33] <jbit> "i write the code that tells the hardware what our artists want to do"
[19:49:42] <Asako> if I do my job properly, you won't see what I do
[19:49:47] <jbit> Asako: exactly
[19:50:46] <Asako> unix is pretty alien to non geeks any way
[19:50:57] <nachox> jbit, you get to use solaris for that?
[19:50:58] <dustman> what type of audio osol uses? oss? libao? pulseaudio?
[19:51:10] <jbit> nachox: trying to use solaris for our build robots at work
[19:51:10] <Auralis> sun audio and oss
[19:51:24] <jbit> since windows is causing performance issues when we're using more an more ram to pack levels
[19:51:25] <nachox> the what? :)
[19:51:27] <Asako> at least it's not alsa(awful linux sound architecture)
[19:51:30] <xRaich[o]2x> anyone in here with 2008.11 RC2 that could run ::print -t "struct sd_lun" in mdb -k?
[19:51:43] <jbit> nachox: computers that build the game from source/assets
[19:51:48] <nachox> ohh
[19:52:02] <Asako> game programming is a mystery to me
[19:52:04] <jbit> nachox: going from what an artist makes in 3d studio max (or maya, or whatever) to something our game engine can use can take a while
[19:52:17] <e^ipi> my cousins etc. basically get the story that i help make the computers that their banks use, much easier that way
[19:52:31] <nachox> the render part is done in solaris then?
[19:52:48] <e^ipi> jbit: oh, you have the same job as my brother then... he moved to tools a while back so he doesn't even get to "make a game" per se
[19:52:52] <Asako> even stuff like pacman, how did they handle boot up, etc?
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[19:53:02] <jbit> nachox: if i move the build robots to solaris then all the shadows and stuff will be computed by solaris yes
[19:53:03] <dustman> Auralis: ty
[19:53:21] <nachox> nice, what program does that job?
[19:53:37] <jbit> e^ipi: i'm a "platform maintainter"... which means not only am i a build engineer (playing with buidl robots) but i write shit loads of platform specific code ;P
[19:53:45] <jbit> nachox: our own internal program ;P
[19:53:57] <nachox> the top secret one then :P
[19:53:59] <jbit> i've been evaluating how hard it would be to move it from windows to solaris
[19:54:15] <jbit> nachox: http://www.ioi.dk/technology/glacier.htm
[19:54:20] <jbit> is about all i can say about it ;p
[19:54:52] <nachox> hehe
[19:55:14] <nachox> so you're basically porting a windows program to solaris? i can almost feel the pain
[19:55:23] <jbit> nachox: nah, it used to run on freebsd
[19:55:32] <jbit> the engien and tools are very crossplatform by nature
[19:56:05] <jbit> ("used to" implies "once apon a time" ;P)
[19:56:19] <nachox> i'm guessing that would suck in something like a us-t2 right?
[19:57:14] <jbit> it's pretty multi threaded
[19:57:28] <jbit> so might be fine, but i think we'll be sticking with x86
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[19:58:25] <nachox> doesnt it use a lot of fp operations?
[19:58:32] <windswept> where could I ask about solaris 10 questions?
[19:58:38] <Stric> t2 has fpus
[19:58:42] <Stric> windswept: #solaris
[19:58:43] <Auralis> windswept: just ask
[19:58:44] <jbit> doesnt t2 have lots more fpus
[19:58:50] <jbit> t1 had an fpu between all the cores?
[19:58:53] <Auralis> t2 has 1 fpu per core
[19:58:56] <Stric> t1 has 1 fpu, t2 has 1 fpu per core
[19:59:00] <jbit> but yes, having SIMD would be desirable
[19:59:05] <jbit> which i dont think any t has
[19:59:28] <Stric> it has the modular arithmetic unit which mostly does crypto real fast.. maybe that could be tweaked ;)
[19:59:31] <jbit> (floating point SIMD, i mean)
[19:59:50] <windswept> I am trying an install on an x2100 and it does not recognize the drives.  (centos did but this is a sun and it should be able to run solaris)
[19:59:52] <jbit> the ideal CPU for this is the cell of course ;P
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[20:00:49] <nachox> tell the ibm guys, you'd like to migrate from solaris to AIX, i'm sure they'll even throw in a couple of engineers to help you port it to power :P
[20:01:40] <jbit> we already have alot of cells laying around ;P
[20:01:54] <h3sp4wn> Does the T2 not have VIS ?
[20:01:55] <jbit> they just dont have 8gbytes of ram attached
[20:03:41] <Stric> jbit: http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/bladecenter/hardware/servers/qs22/
[20:03:47] <Stric> cells with up to 32GB ram ;)
[20:04:14] <nachox> you'd have to run aix though
[20:04:16] <jbit> :P
[20:04:22] <elektronkind> windswept: kill the linux partitions
[20:04:23] <Stric> linux I believe
[20:04:34] <elektronkind> the cell boards run linux
[20:04:35] <jbit> nachox: linux, dont think aix has cell support
[20:04:39] <elektronkind> aix is POWER-only
[20:04:51] <nachox> worse, you'd have to run linux!
[20:05:10] <windswept> elektronkind actually all I did was try a network boot of linux I did not install anything.
[20:05:10] <jbit> as i've said though, i do have an interest in porting opensolaris to ps3 (cell+lv1)
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[20:05:22] <jbit> just for the experience + comedy value ;P
[20:05:28] <nachox> i'd stick to aix any time if the option is linux
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[20:05:52] <Stric> depends on for what use..
[20:06:19] <windswept> Solaris says nv_sata  {warning) attach failed:  RAID mode not supported.
[20:06:39] <Stric> and the bios has what settings for the drives?
[20:06:41] <nachox> you're using raid in the bios?
[20:06:48] <nachox> turn that off
[20:06:48] <e^ipi> windswept: so turn off the raid nonsense and use zfs
[20:06:49] <Auralis> windswept: you have to disable the hardware raid for solaris on that box
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[20:07:24] <windswept> pretty silly for sun to ship with hardware raid and you can't use it but whatever lets see if I can do it.  The bios config seems week
[20:07:26] <jbit> s/hardware/fake/
[20:07:30] <windswept> ^week^weak
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[20:07:55] <Asako> I just let zfs/linux md handle raid
[20:08:06] <e^ipi> it's not hardware raid, it's shitty nv_sata garbage
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[20:08:35] <e^ipi> and the machines ship with it because that's just what the chip's got
[20:08:35] <Asako> I have nvidia chips
[20:08:37] <Asako> er, hate
[20:08:47] <nachox> that software/hardware hybrid was a bad idea in the first place...
[20:08:52] <Asako> their nics like to blue screen windows too
[20:09:05] <e^ipi> good old nvidia...
[20:09:22] <Asako> if the onboard NIC is enable, RIS crashes
[20:09:35] <nachox> they should stick to gpus
[20:09:42] <ShadowHntr> hehehe
[20:09:43] <jbk> heh
[20:09:47] <nachox> and leave nics to intel
[20:09:49] * jbit is pretty sure one of his NDAs requires him to stay out of this conversation ;P
[20:09:52] <Asako> I still like 3com the best
[20:09:53] <jbk> they seem to have problems with even that here recently :)
[20:10:42] <nachox> i never used sun's though, i'm too poor, are they decent?
[20:11:40] <jbk> their nics?
[20:11:43] <nachox> yes
[20:12:01] <jbk> well they seem to be able to get high performance..
[20:12:21] <nachox> they had an impresively expensive multithreaded one i think
[20:12:53] <jbit> intel nics seem to be amazing for how much they cost
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[20:13:16] <nachox> dont tell linus though :P
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[20:17:13] <dustman> nachox: basic sun workstations are rather cheap
[20:18:18] <nachox> they do not use that nic, they use either an intel e1000 or an nvidia one i think
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[20:19:13] <windswept> actually this box has two nics an nvidia and a broadcom
[20:19:56] <jbit> broadcom makes me anxious
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[21:08:23] <codestr0m> failsafe was removed from os2008* because it relied on ufs partition? looking at the manual would suggest that based on the /boot path ?
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[21:17:33] <Asako> yay, I got lvm moved to a zvol
[21:17:49] <Asako> kind of a convoluted process, hehe
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[21:27:36] <e^ipi> Asako: why?
[21:28:26] <e^ipi> have redundancy on the pool and just don't worry about mirroring via linux
[21:28:58] <Asako> I'm migrating from centos
[21:29:06] <Asako> all my domains are on lvm
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[21:31:24] <Asako> yeah, iscsi on linux sucks
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[21:31:56] <Asako> any way to set a default tpgt for all zfs shares?
[21:32:13] <Asako> I don't want iscsi running on my public IP
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[21:44:30] <geierAL> is belenix the recommended opensolaris distrubtion? (simple desktop)
[21:45:21] <sickness> yeah, try also out milax it's nice :)
[21:45:25] <codestr0m> geierAL: depends which channel you ask in
[21:45:35] <codestr0m> sickness: do you really think milax is suitable for a desktop?
[21:45:35] <Asako> I'd just use the real thing
[21:45:42] <codestr0m> Asako: why?
[21:45:48] <Asako> I like it
[21:45:48] <sickness> codestr0m: slim desktop ;)
[21:45:52] <codestr0m> and by /real/ think. you mean that thing with IPS ;)
[21:46:03] <Asako> yeah, that one
[21:46:16] <codestr0m> nobody is really messing with the /real/ thing too much.. which I consider is onnv
[21:46:28] <codestr0m> from there is packaging and userland differences
[21:46:37] <Asako> works fine as my workstation
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[21:46:47] <Asako> SXCE would also be fine
[21:47:15] <codestr0m> anyone know what grub expands $ZFS-BOOTFS to?
[21:47:23] <codestr0m> rpool/rootfs or / or?
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[21:49:39] <sickness> maybe the label?
[21:49:52] <sickness> nevermind, that's a grub thing...
[21:50:00] <codestr0m> right
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[21:53:12] <geierAL> codestr0m, at least it has a slick l'n'f
[21:53:30] <codestr0m> l'n'f ?
[21:53:36] <codestr0m> w't'f is that?
[21:53:54] <geierAL> its look
[21:54:14] <codestr0m> oh. yeah. I'd hope belenix would choose a better default theme ;)
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[21:55:57] <geierAL> codestr0m, can i use the caiman installer in milax somehow?
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[21:57:10] <codestr0m> geierAL: don't know how the caiman installer works. milax is designed to be small by default
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[21:58:13] <h3sp4wn> It looks like it just copies the entire content of the cd using cpio
[21:58:19] <geierAL> codestr0m, thats ok for me, but how do i install it?
[21:58:35] <CIA-34> Vikram Hegde <Vikram.Hegde at Sun dot COM>: 6753225 null pointer dereference panic in page_downgrade(), 6774397 Intel PRO/1000 PT Quad Port LP server adapter needs unity map, 6774406 WARNING: pcplusmp: mod_remove_by_name failed 16 messages on uniprocessor machines
[21:58:38] <geierAL> i mean on real hardware (me is total noob)
[21:59:10] <codestr0m> geierAL: not sure.. I'm doing a from scratch install myself..
[21:59:20] <codestr0m> I don't recommend it, but if you're interested in other ways
[21:59:23] <codestr0m> [1] http://m9.v12.su/zfsinstall.txt
[21:59:23] <codestr0m> [2] http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/zfs/boot/zfsboot-manual/
[21:59:29] <codestr0m> the one is from milax
[22:01:00] <e^ipi> why would you use the caiman installer to install milax
[22:01:17] <e^ipi> you see it once, if the milax installer is painful take solace in the fact you'll never have to see it again
[22:02:25] <codestr0m> e^ipi: I think he was just wondering how to install milax.. not exactly with caiman
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[22:05:23] <geierAL> well caiman was all i knew about solaris installation thats why
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[22:07:00] <codestr0m> geierAL: opensolaris livecds to get you started in a possibly more friendly are : www.genunix.org
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[22:14:03] <geierAL> codestr0m, i think i try that milax on virtualbox first..
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[22:20:06] <e^ipi> caiman is part of the opensolaris livecd... why not just try the opensolaris livecd?
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[22:31:27] <Asako> is CIA-34 a bot?
[22:31:42] <vmlemon_> Yes
[22:34:34] <geierAL> e^ipi, i m afraid i dont have free HD space nor RAM..
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[22:39:17] <e^ipi> even milax is going to be pretty painful to use with not enough ram
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[22:39:30] <e^ipi> and harddrive space is pretty cheap, you need like 3gb
[22:39:57] <e^ipi> that's 18 cents worth of harddrive space
[22:40:03] <geierAL> 3gb for the base is just too much for me..
[22:40:55] <dustman_> geierAL: use livecd or liveusb
[22:41:10] <dustman_> milax and belenix provide both
[22:41:22] <e^ipi> then I'm not terribly certain that solaris is fit for your use case
[22:41:34] <e^ipi> might i suggest one of the BSD's? openbsd fits in a pretty tiny space
[22:41:49] <dustman_> netbsd is even better
[22:41:56] <e^ipi> indeed
[22:43:29] <e^ipi> solaris is a modern OS, with modern features and a modern resource footprint
[22:43:42] <e^ipi> it is extremely poorly tuned for the embedded space
[22:44:42] <dustman_> zfs wants 6Gb minimum disk space as well
[22:45:00] <e^ipi> while timsf has opensolaris on his eeepc, this serves more as a confirmation of the turing-church thesis than an actual recommended configuration
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[22:46:05] <vmlemon_> Hah
[22:46:30] <Asako> will xvm restart my domains at boot?
[22:48:01] <e^ipi> honestly, the sooner we drop 32-bit x86 support the better... that alone would prevent people from trying to run solaris on their netgear routers and what have you
[22:48:23] <e^ipi> and will make a lot of the "problem" with drivers vacuously negated
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[23:27:28] <Asako> can I convert a single drive zpool into raidz?
[23:28:08] <e^ipi> yes
[23:28:44] <e^ipi> http://i18n-freedom.blogspot.com/2008/01/how-to-turn-mirror-in-to-raid.html
[23:28:52] <jamesd> but its not as straight forward as you would like it
[23:30:46] <Asako> actually looks pretty simple
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[23:42:21] <Asako> good idea using the loop device
[23:42:49] <Asako> there should be an option to create a degraded raid
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[23:43:44] <e^ipi> no there shouldn't, that's a total hack
[23:43:50] <e^ipi> it works, but it's a total hack
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[23:44:48] <Asako> hacks are flexible
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[23:48:12] <e^ipi> nah, it's one thing for me to write "here's how to do something idiotic" on my blog, and another thing entirely for the idiotic thing to be officially supported by the tools
[23:48:48] <Asako> hehe, yeah
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[23:52:56] <e^ipi> hey comay
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[23:56:55] <nachox> e^ipi, solaris 9 has chsh?
[23:57:39] <e^ipi> no, i wrote chsh
[23:58:01] <comay> hey there e^ipi
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[23:58:25] <e^ipi> comay: managed to steal a moment of rest?
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