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[00:01:07] <e^ipi> i have no idea what you're going on about actually
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[00:01:13] <e^ipi> someone should buy blizzard or something?
[00:01:28] <alanc> someone already did
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[00:01:55] <alanc> blizzard is owned by one of the big entertainment/movie conglomerates
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[00:02:30] <e^ipi> i did not know that
[00:02:40] <alanc> Mark Shuttleworth is probably the only person/company with enough money to buy a major content provider and an interest in expanding Linux content
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[00:03:59] <h3sp4wn> Nokia maybe ?
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[00:04:14] <alanc> maybe
[00:04:30] <e^ipi> i'm of the opinion that the desktop battles are won and over 15 years ago, and where linux or whatever else stand a real chance of success is in netbooks and the likes
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[00:05:36] <alanc> Wikipedia confirmed my memory - since last year, Blizzard is a division of Activision Blizzard, a subsidiary of Vivendi Universal
[00:06:01] <sfuentes> what's the difference between zones in solaris and virtualization on other systems?
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[00:06:29] <alanc> I think Solaris zones is closest to BSD jails in concept
[00:06:57] <alanc> single kernel underneath, but appearing as different systems to processes through the system call layer
[00:06:58] <Aria> Or Linux-Vserver.
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[00:07:40] <e^ipi> doesn't vserver still run a kernel though?
[00:07:53] <e^ipi> a kernel ported to the linux api's, but a kernel nonetheless
[00:08:01] <RavenSlay3r> love the new topic :-P
[00:08:29] <e^ipi> what, 102's broken?
[00:08:30] <RavenSlay3r> can someone confirm /etc/vfstab is equivlant to /etc/fstab on linux systems?
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[00:08:40] <gdamore> confirmed.
[00:08:44] <RavenSlay3r> thx
[00:08:44] <TheK> e^ipi: Why is opensolaris targeting desktops in your mind?
[00:09:25] <TheK> (also not buy content providers; Buy the service of a content provider was what I ment)
[00:09:26] <e^ipi> I dunno, pick up the sorts of people that use linux on their desktop such that when they write code they'll later deploy it to Sun iron
[00:09:37] <e^ipi> rather than linux
[00:09:53] <gdamore> two words: "developer mindshare".
[00:10:50] <TheK> e^ipi: ok.. I think opensolaris target desktops because people like what they know and use everyday. Availability determine who is king of HPC tomorrow.
[00:11:08] <RavenSlay3r> Thek, my thought is that Sun suffers from lack of mindshare, targeting the desktop will make them more visible to more people, and thus Sun won't be forgotten when it;s time to buy stoarge or servers
[00:11:41] <sfuentes> but is it not true that solaris is a better storage server (platform)?
[00:11:42] <TheK> RavenSlay3r: yes!
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[00:12:06] <TheK> sfuentes: That won't matter if you can' communicate it.
[00:12:08] <RavenSlay3r> also many of us don't need a fancy vista-desktop. but we do appreciate working with one from this century :-P
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[00:12:14] <TheK> can't communicate it.
[00:12:32] <sfuentes> TheK: can't facts be proven?
[00:12:45] <TheK> sfuentes: for a price of course.
[00:12:54] <sfuentes> yes that is true ...
[00:13:04] <RavenSlay3r> gdamore: glad to know i didn't invent the word "mindshare" :-P
[00:13:06] <sfuentes> but i think most ppl realize when they are being BSed
[00:13:14] <sfuentes> most smart ppl that is
[00:13:16] <TheK> sfuentes: Think of what you eat everyday and why. :)
[00:13:20] <consanguinity> sfuentes: few environments deploy software based only on technical merit
[00:14:05] <sfuentes> TheK: sometimes i eat what the tv recommends ... but at least I acknowledge that fact
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[00:14:24] <RavenSlay3r> sfuentes: facts don't matter -
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[00:14:29] <sfuentes> consanguinity: what other basis?
[00:14:40] <sfuentes> RavenSlay3r: huh?
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[00:15:02] <TheK> RavenSlay3r: well.. they _matter_ buy they have inearthia.
[00:15:05] <consanguinity> sfuentes: cost (hardware, support, training costs for staff...), familiarity, ability to actually buy it without running around in circles for a month (sun tends to lose here if you're not a huge customer)
[00:15:14] <RavenSlay3r> sfuentes: last time i worked forsomeone else, and we needed a server the boss wanted Dell and nothing else ... why? because his wife had a dell at home, he had one at work, and he'd seen a commercial that morning...
[00:15:26] <TheK> s/buy/but
[00:16:13] <sfuentes> consanguinity: ok i give u that ... but at least they should say admit to using better suited yet inferior tech :)
[00:16:20] <RavenSlay3r> sfuentes: now what a retail-desktop has to do with server technology beats the hell outta me, but it took weeks to convince him to go with the better/cheaper HP... IBM and SUN weren't even on the table
[00:16:58] <sfuentes> RavenSlay3r: is it crazy to say "Ok we'll do it ... but it's a dumb idea."
[00:17:15] <consanguinity> the new storage 7000 stuff removes a lot of those problems though
[00:17:23] <consanguinity> now you don't have to learn solaris, it has a nice web ui
[00:17:28] <RavenSlay3r> consanguinity: My first-time order with sun was realtivly small, but i had no problems, just for the record! :-)
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[00:18:16] <sfuentes> ok, ok, but among the geeks, the tech savvy ... there should be a consensus on what is more appropriate
[00:18:21] <consanguinity> RavenSlay3r: it tends to be much better (IME anyway) if you buy from a reseller.. but we get much better prices direct from sun
[00:18:27] <sfuentes> but there is no consensus
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[00:19:39] <RavenSlay3r> sfuentes: dunno what you mean by the last comment .. i'm just making the point of how targeting the desktop would increase mindshare, thereby helping sales of heavier iron.. Because the facts ARE on sun's side but many people don't know or don't care
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[00:20:08] <e^ipi> because even the tech savvy are mostly pretty lazy
[00:20:17] <e^ipi> they learned one OS, that's enough.
[00:20:20] <RavenSlay3r> shhhh thats a secret
[00:20:31] <RavenSlay3r> which one, sysV?
[00:21:46] <sfuentes> e^ipi: well they should admit instead of confusing other ppl
[00:22:01] <RavenSlay3r> e^ipi: Thek Why do you think sun doesn't advertise on TV? IBM, HP, Dell, Microsoft all do! And their market share is growing while sun's goes down...
[00:22:01] <sfuentes> that's bad ... should be illegal
[00:22:15] <e^ipi> what, "I know linux sucks, but i have all these tshirts so i use it anyways"
[00:23:07] <TheK> RavenSlay3r: TV costs a lot of money. I think if we did what intel does: http://software.intel.com/en-us/blogs/2008/11/14/opensolaris-and-xeon-processors-10-turbo-mode/
[00:23:26] <TheK> RavenSlay3r: It would be a good step in the right direction.
[00:23:29] <sfuentes> e^ipi: maybe linux is great because it represents "change" :)
[00:23:34] <alanc> RavenSlay3r: Sun did advertise on TV during the dot-com boom - the "dot in dot com" ads...
[00:23:46] <sfuentes> the computer is the network
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[00:24:52] <RavenSlay3r> Thek I was watching Thursdaynight football at 10pm at the sports bar, and saw 2 IBM commericals on the 15' screen - and I knew they were IBM because of the BLUE LETTERBOXING... there were no Sun commercials...
[00:24:54] <TheK> ravenSlay3r: The stuff that Sun does is very complicated and darn difficult to understand for the average person.
[00:25:00] <sfuentes> let's just target the geeks/developers
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[00:25:26] <RavenSlay3r> TheK: IBM is less complicated and easier to understand? Hell i don't have the first clue what they do
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[00:25:35] <throwt> some cynic i know says that fujistu's going to buy sun
[00:25:38] <sfuentes> and why the hell is google using commodity linux instead of commodity solaris!!??
[00:25:46] <RavenSlay3r> sfuentes: that doesn't make the shareholders rich
[00:26:06] <e^ipi> sfuentes: because it wasn't commodity back when google was building out their infrastructure
[00:26:12] <wereHamster> I have 'PasswordAuthentication no' and yet I can still get the password prompt when I connect to the server..
[00:26:15] <throwt> sfuentes: because, their model is distributed and can take failures.  linux is probably faster for many things than solaris.  so fuck all to losing 10% speed for 1% of stability
[00:26:16] <e^ipi> & they couldn't have customized it then
[00:26:29] <TheK> ravenslay3r: wait.. I'm not finished ;) Sun should benefit from being able to explain better why it is the best thing for human kind. Start off with a clasic Jobs:
[00:26:49] <e^ipi> jis should take to wearing turtlenecks ?
[00:27:15] <RavenSlay3r> lmao
[00:27:21] <RavenSlay3r> continue
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[00:27:40] <sfuentes> throwt: last year there was an article about google experimenting with opensolaris .... is 1% the reason they are not using it today?
[00:27:55] <RavenSlay3r> alanc I'd forgotton those ads, but it was just an observation ... maybe it's time to do it again
[00:27:57] <TheK> ravenslay3r: "..and it got something very cool called prediction branches... ehmm.. I don't even know what it is.. it predicts branches..." Audence laughts and everyone is convinced that branch prediction increases values (of course later the warmed up audience can actually read in the technical report that it was cool)
[00:28:09] <sfuentes> e^ipi: so it's not cost effective to migrate to solaris?
[00:28:21] <sfuentes> or upgrade i should say :)
[00:28:28] <TheK> audience laugh.. I should go to bed. My keys aren't sitting still in the keyboard.
[00:28:46] <alanc> RavenSlay3r: I'll be sure to tell Jonathan next time I see him to add another couple hundred people to the layoff list so we can make more TV ads
[00:29:12] <throwt> offer yourself
[00:29:14] <cchildress> hi everyone. i'm having network difficulties. i had to install drivers i retrieved from another pc for the network adapter (via rhine-ii), but after that it worked fine. rebooted several times without problems.  now it recognizes what i have in there but won't send or recieve traffic.  any ideas?
[00:29:49] <sfuentes> maybe sun shouldn't have spent so much in java ;)
[00:29:53] <Kush-> is there a way to disable the PC speaker? i get this really loud Beep when the gdm/gnome login screen shows up!
[00:30:00] <Kush-> i think its the pc speaker causing it
[00:30:19] <cchildress> Kush-i'm pretty sure you're right
[00:30:31] <cchildress> you could always unplug the speaker :p
[00:30:44] <RavenSlay3r> alanc the idea is to increase marketshare so he can STOP laying off people, but do pass it along and tell him I said so! ;-)
[00:30:46] <TheK> alanc: a bit harsh, don't you think?
[00:30:57] <Kush-> well this is a laptop... there is a pc speaker and then there is a audio/sound device
[00:31:06] <Kush-> two are different
[00:31:08] <Kush-> i guess
[00:31:08] <RavenSlay3r> TheK: honestly, this quarter, i can't blame him...
[00:31:09] <quasi> Kush-: probably the microphone causing this
[00:31:18] <johannes> hm, I just installed 2008.11 (101a) on a thinkpad ... everything but myUSB mouse works, the toucpad works though, any ideas what might be wrong? .. oh and i don't see the xorg.conf file in /etc/X11 .. where's that?
[00:31:27] <cchildress> Kush- too true...not sure there, but there's probably a volume setting *somewhere*
[00:31:31] <quasi> Kush-: intel hd-audio?
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[00:31:49] <Kush-> but i mute the speaker, and it doesn't do it anymore
[00:32:02] <alanc> johannes: if you make an xorg.conf, it goes in /etc/X11, but the default is to not have an xorg.conf and just detect what hardware you have
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[00:32:21] <TheK> ok.. time for bed.
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[00:32:32] <quasi> Kush-: mircrophone needs to be turned down or if you're on hd audio, there's an experimental driver that fixes the problem
[00:32:33] <Kush-> quasi: not sure. i have to get my laptop. i am not in front of it. i just want to disable it, whatever it is.
[00:32:38] <cchildress> any tests i can run to figure out what might be wrong with my ethernet connection?
[00:32:42] <johannes> alanc: ah ... ok, but my dual screen setup isn't detected automatically so i need one :-)
[00:32:45] <e^ipi> alanc: oh yeah... did you know that nvidia's gui thing generates a bad xorg.conf when you try to set it up for multi-monitor
[00:32:58] <quasi> Kush-: sounds like what I had in my t61 thinkpad
[00:33:01] <Kush-> also if i mute the speaker, why does it get unmuted again when reboot/relogin
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[00:33:26] <e^ipi> discovered that this weekend...
[00:33:30] <alanc> e^ipi: does it? haven't tried lately - you can file a bug against nvidia/nvidia/config in bugster and our guys will forward it to the right folks at nvidia
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[00:33:34] <Kush-> quasi: ok, thanks.
[00:33:51] <quasi> Kush-: turning down the internal microphone made the sound work, but switching to the experimental driver made the problem go away completely
[00:33:56] <RavenSlay3r> what is /net for
[00:33:58] <e^ipi> i'm not sure why it doesn't work but i'll attach it plus the working one
[00:33:58] <RavenSlay3r> ?
[00:34:07] <e^ipi> RavenSlay3r: network mounts
[00:34:16] <consanguinity> RavenSlay3r: /net/foo.example.com/bar mounts the NFS server foo.example.com:/bar automatically
[00:34:21] <Kush-> quasi: ok, i will go bring my laptop here after i am done with this app server install :) i'll test...
[00:34:23] <cchildress> crap...now it's working again
[00:34:32] <RavenSlay3r> e^ipi: thanks - i think i'll put them there then :)
[00:34:34] <cchildress> anyone have any idea why my ethernet adapter wouldn't work, then worked after a reboot?
[00:34:45] <e^ipi> RavenSlay3r: no, you misunderstand
[00:34:45] <consanguinity> RavenSlay3r: *don't* put your own manual mounts into /net
[00:34:48] <e^ipi> you don't "put them" there
[00:34:51] <e^ipi> they just show up there
[00:34:56] <cchildress> meh, doesn't matter it's on now. thanks anyway
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[00:35:18] <e^ipi> f.ex, just "cd /net/machine_name_goes_here/ " and ls
[00:35:35] <e^ipi> automounter will do what it's name implies
[00:35:50] <johannes> ok, Dual sCreen works .. now the mouse issue - anyideas why an USB mouse won't work while the touchpad does?
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[00:37:33] <alanc> not really - any mouse following the USB standard should just work
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[00:38:10] <johannes> hm, let me check maybe i have another mouse somewhere ...
[00:40:50] <RavenSlay3r> e^ipi: thanks, think i understand now, but it doesn't work on my POS network , gonna add it as a 'cifs' to /etc/fstab maybe mount it under /media/
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[00:41:02] <e^ipi> vfstab...
[00:41:13] <RavenSlay3r> that too.. habit
[00:41:52] <cchildress> ok, so i'm back in my (for now) connected to the network pc...just out of curiosity how do i determine which of the many entries in /dev/dsk is the hard drive i want to select for a zfs pool?
[00:43:32] <e^ipi> format(1M)
[00:44:25] <e^ipi> has apple hinted/announced anything about virtualization in 10.6 ?
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[00:45:11] <TomJ> that they'll break your knuckles if you try and big Steve's watching so you'd be careful punk
[00:45:17] <Archite> blah, 1GB free memory and still not fixed
[00:46:32] <TomJ> Apple hardware/software is not yours to use and enjoy, it's on loan and you'd better be damn grateful for the opportunity
[00:46:53] <TomJ> (I may be paraphrasing)
[00:47:02] <sfuentes> i still think the smart ppl that use linux use it more because of ideology than technical merrit
[00:47:19] <sfuentes> at least that's the vibe i get
[00:47:45] <TomJ> sfuentes: don't be swayed by the noisy minority.  I think most people couldn't give a damn about ideology as long as it works, and preferably as long as it's free
[00:47:51] <RavenSlay3r> sfuentes: it's the free t-shirts
[00:48:05] <e^ipi> sfuentes: i'm with RavenSlay3r , it's the shirts...
[00:48:13] <sfuentes> lol shirts huh
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[00:48:40] <e^ipi> the early adopters may have been about ideology, but most people just wants something that works vaguely well
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[00:49:03] <sfuentes> works is very vague and subjective though
[00:49:12] <TomJ> of course it's subjective
[00:49:14] <sfuentes> lvm works?
[00:49:16] <e^ipi> & linux has enough mindshare that people who don't want windows and can't afford a mac can use it
[00:49:48] <RavenSlay3r> sfuentes: e^ipi is right. and when your coming from a windows environment the bar for "works" is set pretty low.
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[00:50:43] <sfuentes> so its more like "i'm looking for something that works better and windows but not something is really good"
[00:50:51] <sfuentes> err bettern than
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[00:51:21] <sfuentes> i can't type today
[00:51:26] <RavenSlay3r> sfuentes: solaris is a higher learning curve, and less popular .. less people know it's available, less people to ask for help.
[00:51:30] <TomJ> On the contrary, Windows achieves most of the tasks taht people ask of it most of the time.  If it didn't, no-one would use it and Microsoft would not be worth billions.  Don't get caught up in the mindless zealotry "oh it's so lame it just doesn't work lulz!"  Of course it does.  Just not as well at some things as some alternatives.
[00:51:37] <RavenSlay3r> and it has only been available for a shortime relativly speaking
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[00:51:43] <e^ipi> more like "I don't want windows, and i can't afford a mac" and the reply from a bunch of greasy people is "ZOMGLINUX!"
[00:52:12] <e^ipi> (it's that mindshare thing again)
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[00:52:26] <sfuentes> all very good points
[00:52:49] <sfuentes> the world needs more of u gentlemen :)
[00:53:25] <sfuentes> ok what about this ...
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[00:53:59] <sfuentes> ok why are cs professors (professors!! these guys have phds) using linux?
[00:54:16] <e^ipi> same reason
[00:54:22] <sfuentes> oh come on!
[00:54:31] <TomJ> There are plenty of professors far more intelligent than you - or I - who quite happily use Linux
[00:54:42] <TomJ> perhaps the choice of operating system does not directly represent one's IQ
[00:54:50] <TomJ> err I meant Windows in that last statement
[00:55:03] <TomJ> plenty of geniuses use Windows
[00:55:06] <sfuentes> TomJ:  i know. but i'm trying to understand why
[00:55:11] <e^ipi> profs need some sort of open source OS a lot of the time, preferably unix-ish
[00:55:17] <TomJ> maybe they're too busy developing fusion power to be bothered about which OS to run their spreadsheets on
[00:55:21] <e^ipi> the loudest of the bunch is linux
[00:55:48] <TomJ> and maybe their mainframe simulation software is just as easily accessed from putty as from Konsole, Gnome terminal or anything else
[00:55:52] <TomJ> who knows
[00:56:04] <TomJ> but it's spurious to suggest that more intelligent people must use the 'best' of any particular solution
[00:56:17] <TomJ> or indeed that a given solution must be best for them
[00:57:06] <sfuentes> TomJ: why is it spurious?
[00:57:32] <TomJ> Because it implies that a) they'd notice  b) they'd care  c) that what you consider best or most appropriate is the same for everyone
[00:57:39] <sfuentes> TomJ: i don't expect higher intelligent aliens to use windows
[00:57:45] <TomJ> some people just want to turn on the computer, run a few programs at a reaosonable speed, and that's it
[00:57:58] <TomJ> windows meets that goal, particular if you use it in a company where there's an IT team to worry about viruses and the like
[00:58:29] <sfuentes> so as long as there are enough patches and patch personal
[00:58:36] <TomJ> if the IT world was started again then indeed Windows should not win, but the mere fact that it is so ubiquitous and well supported means it has a lot of advantages
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[00:58:56] <purserj> welcome to the power of incumbancy
[00:59:09] <h3sp4wn> Sometimes that bites them in the ass (My university attempting to run Cadence IC on Windows)
[00:59:19] <purserj> you want to talk about mind share, MS has it in spades
[00:59:26] <sfuentes> TomJ: i agree with u on that
[00:59:49] <TomJ> personally I have Solaris on my servers, and Linux + Windows (in a virtual machine) on my desktops,  and Windows on my media PC
[00:59:54] <TomJ> taht's the combo that works best for me
[01:00:24] <TomJ> oh and I had a freebsd router/gateway server for a long time, until I finally put that onto my SXCE file/porn server
[01:00:26] <sfuentes> TomJ: actually, that sounds to me like the ideal config given todays options
[01:00:59] <TomJ> I certainly couldn't live without Windows - Microsoft Office is still by far the best office suite in my opinion, plus I have various bits of useful hardware which only work from Windows
[01:01:03] <TomJ> my mobile phone for one
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[01:02:18] <sfuentes> i just don't see how linux is a better server
[01:02:27] <TomJ> than Solaris? It isn't
[01:02:31] <TomJ> than Windows? it sure is
[01:02:35] <sfuentes> might as well be w2k3
[01:02:40] <TomJ> that's a little unfair
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[01:02:54] <sfuentes> i guess i'm a bit extreme
[01:03:03] <e^ipi> it's not, linux is a bit faster on single core than solaris but i'm not sure you can even buy single core machines anymore
[01:03:19] <RavenSlay3r> tomJ  - Windows does nothing of what I ask for it, which is why i'm continually surprised microsoft stays in business. believe it or not, I've been anti-microsft since before i knew anything else existed (4th grade, 1994ish), or before I heard anyone else say it. i didnt' need to see anything else to know it was a piece of shit... but I guess i'm unusual or somthing, int that I expect the computer to work.
[01:03:35] <TomJ> RavenSlay3r: I think the $70billion a year in revenue probably helps their business model
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[01:04:20] <e^ipi> it would take something seriously disruptive ( like netbooks... ) to unseat MS
[01:04:27] <sfuentes> well guys i can really say that these conversations have been helpful
[01:04:34] <RavenSlay3r> Tomj, well yeah, but i don't understand why people keep paying top-dollar for a B-rate product... but thats just me.
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[01:04:50] <sfuentes> most ppl i talk with can't give me reasonable arguments
[01:04:58] <e^ipi> RavenSlay3r: because the cost is hidden in the price of the machine
[01:04:59] <RavenSlay3r> TomJ: but clearly someone IS a happy customer
[01:05:20] <e^ipi> they can't tell that they're paying MS $100 for windows, because $600 is just what computers cost
[01:05:53] <TomJ> RavenSlay3r: because there's little competition.    Desktop Linux is still a joke - full of obscurely acronymed programs, inadequate help, and geeks.  Things like Ubuntu are closing this gap I think, but there's al ong way to go.   Apple could compete, but choose not to by virtue of forcing you to buy their hardware if you want their OS.  They're doing well, but they charge a premium and therefore will never attact a large segment of the
[01:05:53] <TomJ> market.  So Microsoft has been allowed to continue to run free
[01:05:59] <TomJ> Maybe everyone was scared of even trying to compete, I dont know
[01:06:07] <sfuentes> it was amusing to see yahoo adopt freebsd while google was adopting linux
[01:07:04] <e^ipi> TomJ: thing with apple is that it's more profitable for them to have less users and charge a premium than it is to eat up a chunk of the commodity OS market and lose the hardware division
[01:07:14] <sfuentes> and the BSDs have been known for their tcp/ip stack
[01:07:26] <e^ipi> more users != profit
[01:07:41] <RavenSlay3r> e^ipi: somewhat retorical but isn't funny people will say "I don't want a grey laptop can i have it in electric blue?" but they won't say "I don't like windows, can you offer me somthing else"...
[01:07:43] <jbit> e^ipi: i'd also imagine they have otehr incentives to stay out of microsofts pie
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[01:07:53] <sfuentes> e^ipi: to me it seems like microsoft is walmart
[01:08:01] <TomJ> Yeah they're doing pretty well, though it's been their diversion into handhelds that have really turned the corner
[01:08:24] <e^ipi> sfuentes: not a bad assesment
[01:08:46] <RavenSlay3r> agree
[01:09:00] <jbit> also, sun need to make a games console ;P
[01:09:13] <TomJ> yeah because that's not a crowded market..
[01:09:15] <RavenSlay3r> jbit: lets not push it:-P
[01:09:32] <jbit> n64 was SGI+nintendo, ps3/x360 are IBM+whoever
[01:09:41] <jbit> sun need to do something!
[01:09:46] <e^ipi> jbit: so's the Wii
[01:09:55] <TomJ> I'm not sure transactional memory really helps all that much in games
[01:09:56] <RavenSlay3r> jbit: thats a bad market to be in
[01:09:56] <jbit> e^ipi: well, the chip in hte wii is pretty standard
[01:10:03] <sfuentes> from what i understand, solaris and bsd have alot of history with each other ... as oppose to linux
[01:10:06] <jbit> e^ipi: ps3/x360 use very custom chips
[01:10:17] <e^ipi> jbit: all 3 buy IBM chips
[01:10:23] <sfuentes> billy joy for example
[01:10:31] <TomJ> The Wii is an incredible piece of kit. Not because of the technology, but because Nintendo so amazingly won back their market share by simply not trying to beat Xbox or PS3 at anything
[01:10:33] <jbit> e^ipi: sure, i know this ;P
[01:10:42] <TomJ> people buy a wii who would never buy the others, and the people who buy the others buy a wii as well
[01:10:43] <TomJ> it's genius
[01:10:46] <jbit> e^ipi: but there's a difference between using off the shelf stuff and commisioning special chips
[01:10:47] <RavenSlay3r> jbit: those companies loose money on the consoles for the first 3+ years, all the money comes from the games IF they make money at all
[01:11:06] <e^ipi> RavenSlay3r: nintendo doesn't sell at a loss
[01:11:09] <jbit> RavenSlay3r: I know hte industry well, and I was just joking around of course...
[01:11:11] <e^ipi> each console is a profit to them
[01:11:22] <jbit> but SGI/IBM/etc have all dipped their toes into the market and had good results
[01:11:36] <jbit> remember SGI/IBM/etc all make money, even if microsoft, sony, etc lose money
[01:11:36] <TomJ> I'd never bought a console in my life until I bought a Wii, it was the first time there was something that I couldnt recreate on a PC
[01:11:37] <RavenSlay3r> e^ipi: true, but i think historically the wii is an exception
[01:11:57] <TomJ> (then I bought an xbox 360 later for GTA4, and because I was sick of the PC game hardware upgrade cycles)
[01:12:07] <e^ipi> jbit: yeah, i'm sure that the post office box formerly known as SGI is doing great
[01:12:19] <TomJ> N64 was a bit of a disaster
[01:12:22] <TomJ> so was the dreamcube
[01:12:27] <jbit> e^ipi: well, from what i hear N64 made SGI a fair bit of money
[01:12:27] <RavenSlay3r> jbit: as i recall nVidia took a beating on the first xbox ;)
[01:12:31] <TomJ> that was when nintendo had lost their way somewhat, blindsided by the Playstation
[01:12:40] <TomJ> *gamecub
[01:12:42] <TomJ> e
[01:12:46] <sfuentes> i thought n64 was awesome
[01:12:56] <sfuentes> even now
[01:13:00] <jbit> RavenSlay3r: actually, i think nvidia made out pretty well
[01:13:01] <sfuentes> amazing for its day
[01:13:07] <TomJ> it was OK, but cartridges were past their sell by date by then. 64mb per game when the PSX could have 600
[01:13:08] <e^ipi> i bought a PS3 because dicking around with PC gaming sucks. when i want to play a game i just want to toss the disk in the thing and start killing nazi's
[01:13:08] <RavenSlay3r> e^ipi: i hear google loves SGIs headquarters tho
[01:13:10] <jbit> RavenSlay3r: but i don't know much about that console
[01:13:37] <jbit> e^ipi: \o/
[01:13:38] <bondolo> iostat shows me io for a device named 'cmdk0', how do i map this to a mount point? what does cmdk0 refer to?
[01:13:42] <e^ipi> also the fact that the PS3 cost me as much as a video card alone, and will last 4x as long
[01:13:59] <sfuentes> e^ipi: oh and blueray :)
[01:14:12] <jbit> e^ipi: i've given serious thorught to porting solaris to ps3 otherOS btw ;P
[01:14:24] <sfuentes> just wait till ps9 arrives
[01:14:27] <e^ipi> jbit: go for it, if you can figure out how to get it booting let me know
[01:14:43] <e^ipi> jbit: the powerpc bits are there, they work for some small value of the word "work"
[01:14:54] <jbit> e^ipi: nod, might take a shot over xmas, but the powerPC opensolaris port seems a bit.... unstable..
[01:14:59] <e^ipi> yep
[01:15:02] <e^ipi> totally unstable
[01:15:08] <jbit> or rather... non existant ;P
[01:15:09] <e^ipi> doesn't even fork a shell correctly
[01:15:34] <e^ipi> 2 guys over the course of a year and a half got it to that point
[01:15:36] <jbit> but from what i've seen of the solaris kernel code.... it might be a fun adventure
[01:15:44] <e^ipi> which is pretty impressive, solaris is quite... non-portable
[01:15:46] <jbit> even though nothing might come of it
[01:16:03] <e^ipi> most of the kernel fiddling is done
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[01:16:10] <e^ipi> kmdb and friends need to be ported though
[01:16:33] <jbit> the reason ps3 is interesting is you don't need drivers as such since all OS' run on top of a hypervisor
[01:16:41] <jbit> so you can be quite lazy really
[01:16:48] <RavenSlay3r> e^ipi: what makes solaris hard to port, i thought unix, like linux 'could run on anything"
[01:16:53] <TomJ> I thought PS3 was notoriously hard to develop for
[01:16:57] <TomJ> or at least, it was at first
[01:16:58] <RavenSlay3r> (but could be entirely wrong)
[01:17:05] <jbit> th: i don't think so at all ;)
[01:17:06] <jbit> err
[01:17:08] <jbit> TomJ even
[01:17:16] <jbit> TomJ: i think "different" is hte word developers are looking for
[01:17:21] <TomJ> ah ok
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[01:17:46] <sfuentes> so what are solaris' weaknesses?
[01:17:57] <jbit> TomJ: it's really all about data organization ;P
[01:17:57] <e^ipi> RavenSlay3r: 25 years worth of cruft makes it hard to port
[01:18:05] <RavenSlay3r> Tomj it was because the architecture was totally new and different, and also because the power lies in a large number of cores. Programming the key parts of a game-engine to run in parellel is apparently VERY difficult .. hasn't really been done yet.
[01:18:07] <e^ipi> it was never designed to run on anything other than SPARC
[01:18:29] <jbit> RavenSlay3r: it's been done plenty ;)
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[01:18:32] <RavenSlay3r> e^ipi: thanks
[01:18:33] <TomJ> well x86 has been out since since nearly the beginning
[01:18:39] <jbit> RavenSlay3r: insomniacs engine is the flagship engine for this
[01:18:43] <TomJ> 2.1 or something
[01:18:44] <e^ipi> x86 was an afterthought, only recently did it really start to get any attention
[01:18:52] <jbit> RavenSlay3r: but there are other engines that do it quite well
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[01:19:42] <jbit> RavenSlay3r: but i agree with your point, in the early days people couldn't see how it would work... which is the case with most new CPU archs for any task
[01:19:48] <RavenSlay3r> jbit: I might be a little bit out of date, but last I heard every one was trying to figure out how to thread the render-pipeline and noone was sure it was possible... that was 2 or 3 years ago already tho
[01:20:03] <jbit> RavenSlay3r: we have that sorted out quite nicely now
[01:20:17] <jbit> although there are obviously still issue and pitfalls
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[01:20:18] <e^ipi> sfuentes: it needs a whole lot of ram to get going
[01:20:38] <RavenSlay3r> jbit: good to hear ;) you know of any good links on it off hand? i need to get caught up on that
[01:20:40] <e^ipi> sfuentes: and a bunch of open-source stuff has trouble compiling because they use linux-specific api's
[01:20:59] <jbit> RavenSlay3r: http://www.insomniacgames.com/tech/techpage.php is a good start i think ;)
[01:21:13] <e^ipi> sfuentes: also, single-thread/core performance suffers a little because of the tradeoff to make it scream on multithread/core
[01:21:15] <RavenSlay3r> jbit: much appreciated
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[01:22:03] <sfuentes> e^ipi: that's it?
[01:22:04] <jbit> RavenSlay3r: insomniac are really great guys and very open about hwo they do things... i think their work should be of interest to anybody doing multiprocessor code, regardless of if it's game related or not
[01:22:07] <e^ipi> the VM is also suboptimal
[01:22:17] <e^ipi> but this: https://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=49677&tstart=120 looks like that won't be a problem for much longer
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[01:23:02] <sfuentes> interesting
[01:23:11] <RavenSlay3r> jbit:  cool, i'll have to check it out
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[01:23:32] <sfuentes> is it a possibility for 2008/11 to be out next month?
[01:23:45] <alanc> yes
[01:23:57] <e^ipi> sfuentes: yes
[01:24:00] <alanc> that's what the .11 is supposed to mean 8-)
[01:24:02] <sfuentes> so then it would be 2008/12
[01:24:08] <e^ipi> it'll be out soon, november's not over yet
[01:24:34] <sfuentes> i guess what i'm asking is whether they are strict about releasing on Nov
[01:24:50] <sfuentes> w/ no exceptions
[01:24:57] <jbit> i'd assume if there are major issues they'll delay
[01:25:05] <e^ipi> sfuentes: nah, comay hasn't been sleeping as far as anyone can tell, so it's pretty safe to assume that they'll hit the target ( some time before december )
[01:25:35] <sfuentes> cool
[01:25:35] <comay> ZzzzzzZZzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzZZz
[01:25:41] <sfuentes> lol
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[01:28:07] <e^ipi> a couple release candidates have come out
[01:28:15] <e^ipi> so major issues should theoretically be hit there
[01:28:19] <e^ipi> what about them?
[01:28:34] <sfuentes> what are there strenghts?
[01:28:55] <sfuentes> lets say on x86
[01:29:09] <sfuentes> but that doesn't have to mean fbsd
[01:29:10] <e^ipi> i'm not as familiar with the internals
[01:29:13] <jbit> i'd say BSD has hte advantage of more developers
[01:29:15] <e^ipi> freebsd's pretty quick these days
[01:29:19] <jbit> but maybe i'll be shot for sayign that here
[01:29:28] <e^ipi> and a lot less resource hungry than solaris
[01:29:28] <jbit> :P
[01:29:53] <e^ipi> ( they also have some proto zfs & dtrace support )
[01:30:10] <sfuentes> what about on multi-core and multi-proc/smp machines?
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[01:30:17] <e^ipi> jbit: more than who? linux? doubtful... maybe more competent developers
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[01:30:35] <e^ipi> sfuentes: yeah, freebsd's shining on those... net and open are pretty bad on SMP
[01:30:51] <alanc> more BSD developers?   I didn't know they had hundreds of people working full-time on it...
[01:31:02] <alanc> well, except at Apple
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[01:31:40] <jbit> e^ipi: solaris
[01:31:48] <e^ipi> oh
[01:31:48] <sfuentes> apple doesn't touch freebsd, kernel though .... right?
[01:31:57] <Gman> sfuentes: it'll be out this month
[01:31:59] <e^ipi> sfuentes: they don't even use the freebsd kernel
[01:32:01] <jbit> sfuentes: they contribute stuff back up stream
[01:32:03] <Gman> definitely :)
[01:32:29] <sfuentes> Gman: its ur word now :)
[01:32:36] <Gman> sure, hold me to it :)
[01:33:02] <jbit> stevel: XNU uses large chunks ofr freeBSD kernel code
[01:33:05] <jbit> err
[01:33:09] <jbit> sfuentes
[01:33:21] <sfuentes> oh
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[01:33:54] <sfuentes> i though it was just a hacked and extended and disfigured mach
[01:34:03] <e^ipi> nope
[01:34:06] <jbit> it is, with freeBSD code ;)
[01:34:09] <e^ipi> it's a mish-mash of the two of them
[01:34:13] <jbit> http://www.kernelthread.com/mac/osx/arch_xnu.html
[01:34:14] <sfuentes> lol
[01:34:19] <e^ipi> still can't fork or malloc worth a damn though...
[01:34:20] <sfuentes> sounds like a mut
[01:34:37] <sfuentes> a mutant
[01:34:48] <alanc> and with some OpenSolaris code, like the MacOS X ports of ZFS & Dtrace
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[01:35:44] <jbit> OSX seems to just absorb cool things, whether the end result is good is debatable though ;P
[01:35:57] <e^ipi> *shrug* I like it
[01:36:01] <sfuentes> well at least the intentions are good
[01:36:07] <jbit> i like it too, but there are issues
[01:36:15] <e^ipi> i'd never deploy it on a heavily loaded machine
[01:36:19] <sfuentes> and it seems like a better solution to windows
[01:36:20] <e^ipi> but for my laptop, i like it
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[01:37:06] <sfuentes> i think if they cut the price and release it to pc hardware ... it can replace windows since apple has weight to develop popular apps
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[01:37:30] <e^ipi> and then they'd promptly go out of business
[01:37:35] <e^ipi> because they're a hardware company
[01:37:48] <sfuentes> they need more software :)
[01:37:52] <jbit> and microsoft would become more agressive towards apple
[01:37:59] <sfuentes> which we can say they have potential for
[01:38:01] <e^ipi> some hardware companies use fingerprint readers as the compelling reason why you'd want to buy their kit, apple uses OSX
[01:38:26] <e^ipi> i don't think that they could be even a little bit successful trying to compete with MS directly
[01:38:30] <e^ipi> MS would destroy them
[01:39:34] <sfuentes> i've seen more windows ppl convert to osx than to linux/buntu
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[01:40:00] <e^ipi> more users does not imply more profit
[01:40:22] <sfuentes> but at least more market share
[01:40:25] <e^ipi> with the margins apple makes, it's more worthwhile for them to have less users
[01:40:31] <e^ipi> market share doesn't imply more profit either
[01:40:37] <zimmermanc> not to be a complete noob but, what's the benefit, differences from opensolaris vs solaris x86 ? :\
[01:40:47] <purserj> e^ipi: except where market share >90%
[01:40:57] <sfuentes> well given their current buss model, i would agree
[01:41:10] <e^ipi> zimmermanc: opensolaris is newer, solaris is supported
[01:41:29] <jamesd> e^ipi, the more mac users equals more ipods and iphones, where the real money is made...
[01:41:30] <zimmermanc> succinct
[01:41:52] <e^ipi> sfuentes: apple's quite profitable at what they do, changing the business model just because a bunch of cheapskates want them to would be bad for shareholders
[01:41:57] <sfuentes> maybe an igame console
[01:42:07] <e^ipi> and plenty of ipod/iphone users are windows users
[01:42:12] <e^ipi> they already tried a game console, it failed
[01:42:41] <e^ipi> for that matter they already tried licensing macos to non-apple vendors
[01:42:45] <e^ipi> it almost killed the company
[01:42:48] <sfuentes> if it wasn't for ipod and iphone i'm not sure they could have been sustainable
[01:43:29] <e^ipi> they were increasing sales well before the ipod started selling well
[01:44:08] <e^ipi> that said, the ipod as an advertising vehicle for the mac worked pretty well for them & accelerated that growth
[01:44:49] <CoolMa> hi all there, was anybody able to compile wpa_supplicant on opensolaris 2008.11 x86?
[01:45:06] <CoolMa> and could help me out?
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[01:47:02] <e^ipi> CoolMa: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/laptop/wireless/wpa
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[01:47:23] <CoolMa> I get common.h:125:2: #error Could not determine CPU byte order
[01:47:38] <e^ipi> NOTE: WPA/Personal support has been integrated into OpenSolaris build 64, please refer wpad(1M), dladm(1M) for more details.
[01:48:06] <e^ipi> so, ditch the supplicant, you don't need it
[01:48:22] <CoolMa> wpad?
[01:48:48] <CoolMa> I will check
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[01:48:55] <throwt> can someone help me understand why on the x4200 sun chose such small heatsinks and such loud fans when there was enough space to double the heat sink size?
[01:49:39] <e^ipi> i wouldn't personally bother with linux at all, but that's just me
[01:49:58] <e^ipi> i've been pretty satisfied with solaris on my desktop for quite some time
[01:49:58] <sfuentes> oh and fw/router=obsd
[01:50:05] <consanguinity> sfuentes: that sounds like a personal decision that would be different for every user
[01:50:16] <jamesd> for  fw/router == cisco
[01:50:35] <sfuentes> jamesd: old machines laying around
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[01:51:04] <sfuentes> consanguinity: i'm trying to make it non-personal
[01:51:10] <Archite> anyone had any luck with 2.6 brandz zones?
[01:51:16] <sfuentes> and more technical
[01:51:18] <Archite> mine never appear to finish booting
[01:51:36] <consanguinity> sfuentes: there is no technical solution that's the best for every use case
[01:52:00] <sfuentes> true, but let's not get carried away
[01:52:20] <e^ipi> macs on the workstation, solaris on the server *shrug*
[01:52:20] <Archite> I worked for me at some point but not anymore. Same image I used before as well, which is a bit more annoying
[01:52:38] <e^ipi> Archite: it's experimental code... sometimes it breaks
[01:52:45] <sfuentes> there is no arguing solaris on the server, right?
[01:53:13] <e^ipi> sfuentes: what channel are you in again?
[01:53:19] <Archite> sfuentes, can't say that I would. I manage about 80 of them ;)
[01:53:21] <consanguinity> are you talking about x86 only?  because solaris doesn't support most non-x86 server platforms
[01:53:31] <e^ipi> if we weren't all going to suggest solaris, this would be somewhere other than #opensolaris
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[01:54:42] <sfuentes> e^ipi: a real man admits when he's defeated ... so yeah i'm making a few assumptions
[01:54:57] <sfuentes> yeah x86
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[01:55:34] <throwt> solaris isnt always the right tool for the job anyway, so it would make sense for somebody to say "oh, for x, use y (where y is not solaris)"
[01:56:00] <sfuentes> throwt: not the right tool for the server job?
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[01:56:31] <sfuentes> which i know can still be a little vague
[01:56:48] <e^ipi> sfuentes: if it were a renderman server you'd need to pick something else
[01:57:01] <sfuentes> but im having a hard time envisioning a linux server better suited
[01:57:06] <sfuentes> i guess i just got one
[01:57:21] <e^ipi> sfuentes: if the software only runs on linux, then linux is a better choice ;)
[01:57:22] <sfuentes> but those cases are peanuts :)
[01:57:33] <zimmermanc> grr, now i'm angry i can't even install gcc
[01:57:49] <zimmermanc> lol
[01:57:56] <johannes> sfuentes: i won't use too many different systems, just annoying for maintenance ...
[01:58:00] <turtle> LOLOLOL!!!!
[01:58:00] <e^ipi> zimmermanc: it's in /usr/sfw/bin but sun's CC is better
[01:58:08] <e^ipi> generates better code
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[01:58:45] <CIA-34> Tony Nguyen <Ton.Nguyen at Sun dot COM>: 6771850 [txzonemgr] workaround and fixes needed for OpenSolaris.2008.11
[01:58:46] <CIA-34> Seth Goldberg <Seth.Goldberg at Sun dot COM>: 6772470 Toshiba R600 resets early in boot during INT13 for ATAPI CD/DVD
[01:59:26] <zimmermanc> e^ipi i think maybe only if it were installable via the the package manager, package manager is missing packages :(
[01:59:28] <e^ipi> meh, renderman's in pretty heavy use and there aren't a whole lot of alternatives IIRC
[01:59:37] <e^ipi> zimmermanc: ss-dev
[01:59:49] <zimmermanc> pkgbuild is wanting cc instead of suncc
[01:59:49] <e^ipi> zimmermanc: and the GUI manager is broken, use the console one
[01:59:56] <e^ipi> ...
[02:00:01] <consanguinity> zimmermanc: pkgbuild doesn't care about compiler
[02:00:08] <consanguinity> it's probably the spec files you're using (SFE or etc)
[02:00:14] <zimmermanc> nah building pkgbuild
[02:00:20] <e^ipi> it's cc... referred to as suncc because of all the other 'cc's out there
[02:00:36] <e^ipi> /opt/SUNWspro/bin/cc
[02:00:37] <zimmermanc> what's the command line
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[02:00:43] <e^ipi> or /opt/SunStudioExpress/bin
[02:01:04] <e^ipi> zimmermanc: 'man pkg'
[02:01:22] <zimmermanc> ;)
[02:01:43] <zimmermanc> hrm, sorry the ./configure script for pkgbuild failed and didn't find sunstudio cc
[02:01:47] <zimmermanc> i assumed it wanted gcc
[02:03:01] <e^ipi> don't assume things in solaris want gcc... probably best to assume that they /don't/ want gcc to be safe
[02:03:26] <e^ipi> open-sauce stuff wants gcc, you just need sometimes to trick it in to using the better compiler
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[02:03:57] <sfuentes> so is IPS suppose to be like apt-get?
[02:04:19] <e^ipi> similar concept, but not entirely
[02:04:43] <e^ipi> apt doesn't do snapshots, for instance ( so when things break, they're broken... w/ IPS when things break, rollback and continue )
[02:04:57] <sfuentes> awesome :)
[02:05:18] <zimmermanc> ips / sfe /pkgbuild /   head explodes
[02:05:22] <sfuentes> is IPS in 2008/11
[02:05:23] <zimmermanc> haha
[02:05:35] <consanguinity> actually, nexenta's apt-get does snapshots
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[02:06:17] <e^ipi> sfuentes: yes
[02:07:07] <e^ipi> zimmermanc: sfe/pkgbuild are equivalent concepts somewhat akin to freebsd ports, IPS is a binary package manager in 2008.xx
[02:07:34] <e^ipi> you can tack pkgsrc on to debian if you so desire, similarly you can tack pkgbuild on to 2008.xx
[02:08:28] <sfuentes> so does sun host the repositories?
[02:08:30] <zimmermanc> oh, i thought they were the same thing
[02:08:45] * bda uses pkgsrc on Solaris and Debian to standardize depends.
[02:08:46] <zimmermanc> you just confused me more sir lol
[02:09:16] <sfuentes> one uses source code and one uses precompiled binaries
[02:09:45] <e^ipi> sfuentes: yes
[02:10:09] <e^ipi> ( yes sun hosts the main repo )
[02:10:13] <zimmermanc> nah i meant sfe/pkgbuild , i thought they were the same thing. i need to read an intro of some sort to the repos
[02:10:25] <zimmermanc> are there other binary repos for ips?
[02:10:37] <e^ipi> yes, sunfreeware has one, and blastwave has one
[02:10:45] <consanguinity> zimmermanc: pkgbuild is a tool for building software.  SFE is a set of software built using that tool
[02:11:07] <dsch04> Evening all
[02:11:09] <zimmermanc> ah, it's coming together
[02:11:14] <dsch04> (Actually, early mornig for me :))
[02:11:15] <zimmermanc> diabolical :)
[02:11:33] <dsch04> So, I'm about to re-commission my NAS
[02:11:38] <sfuentes> i think even in #linux they would agree a solaris admin is more knowledgeable than a linux admin :)
[02:11:50] <dsch04> Can anyone tell me the status of the CIFS server/NFS DACL issue ?
[02:11:57] <sfuentes> yes, they are different but u can't deny it
[02:12:01] <e^ipi> sfuentes: that's why they get paid more
[02:12:09] <zimmermanc> perhaps i'll add them sometime. i prefer not to mix binary repos. i've broken linux rpm distros way too many times being a noob and mucking up the system with several binary repositories
[02:12:10] <dsch04> sfuentes: s/knowledgeable/arrogant/ :)
[02:12:11] <e^ipi> dsch04: what about it?
[02:12:31] <sfuentes> dsch04: for good reason
[02:12:46] <dsch04> Well, I never did get to the bottom of how to ensure the correct permissions between NFS clients and CIFS clients
[02:12:48] <zimmermanc> s/arrogant/in demand for business/
[02:12:49] <sfuentes> the money says it all :)
[02:13:01] <zimmermanc> only because companies have old payware they need admins for
[02:13:11] <e^ipi> zimmermanc: blastwave delivers to /opt/csw, and sunfreeware delivers to /usr/local... not much you can do in the way of breaking things
[02:13:31] <piwi> number of bugs filed under the "blocker" bug 2413 shrank to 3. not counting the ips blocker (which has no adjacent bugs listed) and 4622 "What's new page is missing", there is only one serious bug left. so 2008.11 is only some days away?
[02:13:34] <e^ipi> dsch04: "correct" in what sense...
[02:13:58] <e^ipi> on a CIFS share, having correct windows permissions is correct
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[02:14:05] <e^ipi> so in that sense, it is correct
[02:14:27] <alanc> piwi: another release candidate should be out in the next couple of days, to see if all the bugs found in the first were squashed without adding any new ones
[02:14:29] <consanguinity> dsch04: as far as i can tell, there's no solution for CIFS clients that don't understand NFSv4 ACLs.  (except "change OS")
[02:14:30] <dsch04> Yes, but from what I recall, that screwed up the NFS permissions
[02:14:40] <e^ipi> if you want to break them and have 1960's style permisions, you can set a top-level inherited ACL
[02:14:42] <consanguinity> dsch04: if your NFS client does understand ACLs, it'll work okay
[02:15:19] <dsch04> I have linux clients and windows clients - I'd like them both to be able to access the resources correctly.
[02:15:33] <piwi> alanc: ok, like 2008.5. keep my fingers crossed no stopper shows up :)
[02:15:34] <consanguinity> dsch04: use samba
[02:15:47] <dsch04> That is indeed one of my options
[02:15:54] <dsch04> Samba seems to work OK
[02:16:21] <e^ipi> or set group:staff:rwxp--aAR-cC--:fd-----:allow
[02:16:26] <e^ipi> which is what I did
[02:16:32] <dsch04> i.e. the permissions are sane between CIFS and NFS clients
[02:16:47] <consanguinity> e^ipi: presumably that doesn't actually fix the problem, it just overrides every file's ACLs/mode
[02:16:57] <e^ipi> consanguinity: yes
[02:17:01] <e^ipi> for the staff group
[02:17:14] <consanguinity> so your solution is actually worse than the "1960's style permissions" you keep going on about ;)
[02:17:39] <consanguinity> + useless in a multi-user environment..
[02:17:52] <e^ipi> no, a good starting point in a multi-user environment
[02:18:08] <e^ipi> obviously you wouldn't set those permissions exactly
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[02:18:38] <sfuentes> who uses that? comay maybe?
[02:18:53] <e^ipi> why would he use osx server?
[02:19:10] <e^ipi> he works @ sun, that'd be silly
[02:19:29] <sfuentes> i know ... i was j/k
[02:19:38] <e^ipi> maybe for ical server or something ? *shrug*
[02:19:44] <e^ipi> nfi what osx server is good at
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[02:20:58] <alanc> isn't it mainly for the Apple Xserve file servers?
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[02:21:41] <e^ipi> could be
[02:21:51] <zimmermanc> streaming server
[02:22:09] <zimmermanc> about the only decent app for it i can think of :\
[02:22:23] <sfuentes> domain controller
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[02:22:26] <sfuentes> hah
[02:22:51] <sfuentes> i wouldn't be surprised if i saw one at e^ipi house ;)
[02:23:57] <sfuentes> anybody taken compilers?
[02:24:08] <sfuentes> course
[02:25:40] <e^ipi> anyone with a CS degree from a vaguely reputable institution, but just use yacc and save yourself the headache
[02:26:19] <sfuentes> is ucd vaguely reputable?
[02:27:13] <sfuentes> was one of the first schools to have nsa center of excellence in IA
[02:27:38] <alanc> I dunno, I heard from friends who did CS there about the smell from the Davis campus farm animals damaging their brains...
[02:28:07] <sfuentes> but for some dumb reason they took compilers off the curriculum for a year because not enough students were signing up
[02:28:25] <sfuentes> might of been 2years actually
[02:28:34] <marko-b> can you turn a single disk zfs pool into a mirror by adding another drive with no data loss?
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[02:28:58] <sfuentes> alanc: there is some agricultural radiation
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[02:31:24] <jamesd> marko-b, yes.. and no downtime if your hardware supports hot-swap
[02:31:46] <marko-b> its just vmware at this point
[02:31:53] <marko-b> playing with 08.11
[02:32:59] <marko-b> so what would be the command to convert the root rpool to a mirrored pool?
[02:33:09] <e^ipi> 'man zpool'
[02:33:10] <jamesd> man zpool
[02:34:00] <e^ipi> heh
[02:34:05] <marko-b> ive tried various incantations with no luck
[02:34:49] <jamesd>  zpool attach [-f] pool device new_device
[02:34:50] <jamesd>          Attaches new_device to an  existing  zpool  device.  The
[02:34:50] <jamesd>          existing device cannot be part of a raidz configuration. If device is not currently part of a mirrored configuration,  device  automatically  transforms  into a two-way    mirror of device and new_device.
[02:35:10] <e^ipi> reading the manpages is faster than asking on IRC
[02:35:11] <marko-b> thanks james
[02:35:25] <e^ipi> that is a direct copy/paste from the man page
[02:35:28] <e^ipi> next time you should read it.
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[02:44:04] <sfuentes> use python ... that's all u need
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[02:49:21] <zimmermanc> should be interesting to see if i can get this mkv to play on opensolaris :)
[02:49:34] <consanguinity> use mplayer, it plays everything
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[02:51:08] <zimmermanc> k, wasn't that as much as, whether mplayer would build ok
[02:51:09] <zimmermanc> :)
[02:51:09] <RavenSlay3r> $ bash: mplayer: command not found  .. almost everything
[02:51:19] <zimmermanc> but um you give me hope
[02:51:40] <consanguinity> RavenSlay3r: you need to install it first
[02:52:10] <RavenSlay3r> :-P
[02:53:12] <zimmermanc> no way :)
[02:53:33] <zimmermanc> wow it's got a few deps
[02:53:52] <zimmermanc> installing from blastwave now , 72 packages will be installed :D
[02:53:57] <zimmermanc> sweet
[02:54:02] <zimmermanc> i was thinking that was going to be a headache
[02:54:06] <sponix> are they only going to get in one RC before 2008.11 hits ?
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[02:54:51] <zimmermanc> maybe you should ask 'them' :)
[02:56:36] <e^ipi> should be another one out in a couple days IIRC
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[02:56:44] <RavenSlay3r> does "2008.11" only apply to the indiana branch or will there be a "slightly more stable than normal" SXCE release that concides with it?
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[02:57:26] <e^ipi> nope
[02:57:48] <sponix> zimmermanc:  ... I am    *Grin*
[02:58:01] <sponix> zimmermanc:  "they" reside here, most of the time
[02:58:17] <sponix> e^ipi:  thanks
[02:58:42] <e^ipi> my IRC habit is long . it is not a problem. i do not need an intervention.
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[02:58:58] <zimmermanc> says the addict
[02:59:17] <e^ipi> it doesn't interfere with work, and if you redefine "life" to include IRC, it doesn't interfere with life either
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[02:59:42] <e^ipi> really, everything's a matter of how you define things
[02:59:52] <RavenSlay3r> e^ipi: I'm still working on being able to IRC and WORK at the same time, i'm not very good at it at all
[03:00:15] <e^ipi> philosophy has recognized this since wittgenstein
[03:00:33] <RavenSlay3r> i think obi-wan said somthing to that effect also
[03:00:52] <e^ipi> yes, well... obi-wan existed about 100 years after wittgenstein
[03:01:33] <RavenSlay3r> oh
[03:01:33] <turtle> uh no i think it was a long time ago
[03:01:37] <turtle> in a galaxy far far away
[03:01:55] <e^ipi> as opposed to turn of the century germany
[03:02:16] <consanguinity> turn of the century was only 8 years ago
[03:02:20] <consanguinity> i'm pretty sure star wars predates that
[03:02:50] <e^ipi> although in fairness Tractatus was written during WW1
[03:03:31] <e^ipi> ( and is also the most arrogant essay title in history )
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[03:20:45] <Wez> any linker gurus present?  I have an issue with some 3rd party code that was compiled with g++ and blows up when it throws an exception... because it collides with the sun CC exception handling symbols :-/
[03:21:22] <Wez> I'm also happy to be redirected to the appropriate man page so I can rtfm :-)
[03:22:03] <Wez> presumably there's some option to avoid the symbols from the parent process from leaking into a loaded object
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[03:32:50] <SunTzuTech> Wez what are you building?
[03:33:33] <Wez> proprietary code, linking against an antivirus vendor provided shared object
[03:34:06] <SunTzuTech> so the object was compiled with Sun CC (C++)
[03:34:44] <Wez> the host process is compiled with sun CC, the av library with g++
[03:35:15] <e^ipi> not gonna work
[03:35:16] <SunTzuTech> well, the ABI for g++ and Sun C++ are different.  you have to pick one.
[03:35:25] <e^ipi> g++ ignores the solaris c++ abi completely
[03:35:53] <SunTzuTech> g++ ignores it's own abi compatibility... ;-)
[03:36:09] <Wez> silly gnu folks :-/
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[03:36:54] <timeless> sun: g++ has abi compatibility?
[03:37:09] <SunTzuTech> well, some people call it that. ;-)
[03:37:21] <timeless> fwiw, you can try to glue multiple abis together if you really want to
[03:37:31] <timeless> we haven't actually tried to do it w/ mozilla for solaris
[03:37:35] <timeless> but the code's available
[03:37:40] <timeless> and it's been done for mozilla for os/2
[03:37:46] <Wez> I'm hoping that there's some kind of linker map magic that can be employed to contain the g++ bits
[03:37:58] <consanguinity> for g++ to provide compatibility with Studio, would a) require all gcc users to install the expensive Studio software until recently (when it became free), and b) would severely reduce their C++ standards compliance - even Studio can't have good C++ compliance without breaking the ABI
[03:38:00] <timeless> if you understand the abi sufficiently and have enough reflection
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[03:38:29] <timeless> consanguinity: err
[03:38:30] <m3lling> can i take a zfs fs and create another pool?  eg. zfs create rpool/zonestorage/web
[03:38:50] <m3lling> I'm trying use this in my zone.
[03:38:53] <Wez> I think the map file would stop the g++ leaking out into the host process, but I want to prevent some of the host process symbols from leaking into the object
[03:39:05] <bda> m3lling: You can delegate datasets to a zone.
[03:39:18] <bda> m3lling: You can't create a new "pool" from a zfs fs. You misunderstand how it works.
[03:39:34] <timeless> ABI support in general shouldn't have much influence over c++ standards compliance
[03:40:02] <consanguinity> timeless: ABI compatibility requires standard library compatibility.  it works for C since gcc uses the host's libc.  for C++, it'd require using the host's C++ standard lib, i.e. studio's
[03:40:04] <timeless> wez: might i suggest win32? :)
[03:40:16] <consanguinity> timeless: studio's C++ library is deficient and can't easily be fixed without breaking the ABI
[03:40:32] <Wez> timeless: I'm sure it would work perfectly there :-)  That's about the only thing I really like about the win32 model
[03:40:33] <timeless> abi=vtable layout
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[03:40:57] <timeless> if you can get the vtable layout correct and consistent, then you can choose which libraries to use
[03:41:03] <consanguinity> timeless: so if you could only use gcc-compiled C programs that didn't use libc... you'd say the C ABI was compatible?
[03:41:07] <timeless> if you want to use the g++ c++rt, so be it
[03:41:34] <jklyekai> I use pkgtool to download and build glib2.spec .show error :glib2.spec86  %if: invalid boolean expression.
[03:41:35] <timeless> compatible w/ what?
[03:42:13] <timeless> sun/solaris are fairly clear: though shalt not bypass the crt
[03:42:24] <timeless> talking to the kernel is a layering violation
[03:42:25] <m3lling> so if I have rpool (zfs) do I just use a mount point (eg. /zonedata) and use that in my zones?
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[03:42:48] <timeless> m3lling: you have choices
[03:42:56] <timeless> it depends on what you want to do
[03:42:59] <bda> m3lling: I create pool/zones/<zonename>/tank and delegate that tank fs to the zone.
[03:43:05] <timeless> as someone mentioned, you can create a dataset
[03:43:09] <m3lling> i was to create a few zones that run apache/glassfish
[03:43:16] <m3lling> i want ...
[03:43:23] <timeless> personally i create filesystems and map them into the zone
[03:43:27] <bda> Once delegated, you can create fs hanging off pool/.../tank.
[03:43:33] <bda> (from inside the zone)
[03:43:45] <timeless> for me it means i do snapshoting outside the zone
[03:43:54] <timeless> whereas bda can do snappshoting inside
[03:44:19] <timeless> since i'm really one user using zones to virtualize processes and not users, it's not a problem
[03:44:37] <timeless> but if you're multiuser, you'd probably be better served w/ bda's approach
[03:44:46] <m3lling> can someone give me a link so I can read about the "right" way... or a good way.
[03:44:48] * bda can also snapshot delegated datasets outside of a zone. :)
[03:44:57] <bda> m3lling: The Zone Admin Guide is a good place to start...
[03:45:04] <m3lling> can i still do zfs backups of my zones?
[03:45:11] <timeless> bda: how about a guide for resurrecting a broken nexenta zone?
[03:45:27] * timeless keeps hitting the sysevent door issue
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[03:45:38] * timeless never wrote up a useful 'howto-recover' doc :(
[03:45:59] <bda> m3lling: Yes. There are certain operations you can't perform on zoned filesystems, but snapshoting and sending/recving work fine.
[03:46:04] <bda> timeless: Dunno from Nexenta zones, sorry.
[03:46:06] <timeless> alternatively, when can i use a dvd installer to install into an existing zpool? :)
[03:46:10] <bda> I've only ever poked at the livecd a couple times.
[03:47:04] <timeless> or, are there decent instructions for creating a milax usb stick, and can i install milax to an existing zpool from a live boot :)
[03:47:06] <m3lling> k.  thx.
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[03:56:49] <axisys> anyone saw error message like this http://pastebin.com/f134dfc29  ?
[04:00:17] <SunTzuTech> google has
[04:03:54] <axisys> SunTzuTech: not so clear.. is it cuz the key is corrupted?
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[04:04:11] <SunTzuTech> looks that way
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[04:28:24] <mlh> axisys: is your key uuencoded?!
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[04:40:02] <axisys> mlh: let me check
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[04:43:43] <axisys> mlh: how do I know if it is uuencoded? i am looking at the authorized_keys file
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[06:41:31] <c00p> Has anyone here had difficulty being able to get Domain SMB (cifs) sharing working with 101a ?
[06:42:02] <c00p> I have kerberos working - tested using kinit - have joined the domain - can see the host in AD
[06:42:41] <c00p> have created a test zfs file system and put sharesmb=on and when I try to go to \\hostname I get prompted for a pass and it does not work.
[06:42:55] <c00p> have followed multiple different blogs and sun documentation :(
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[07:58:52] <CIA-34> Amrita Sadhukhan <Amrita.Sadhukhan at Sun dot COM>: 6635484 sem_undo_alloc using passed-in ksemid which has been freed
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[08:25:30] <trygvis> hm, is there any way to debug what autofs tries to do?
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[09:01:25] <monzie> Hello
[09:01:35] <monzie> anyone know how to get older(archived) SX releases?
[09:01:45] <monzie> For my purpose, I would need NV 101\
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[09:04:32] <consanguinity> but 101 is the current version...?
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[09:10:55] <Chipdancer> consanguinity: yep
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[09:11:53] <consanguinity> i know, it wasn't really a question ;)
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[09:15:33] <chendy> should be , if i need nv 93
[09:16:39] <Chipdancer> consanguinity: you did end with a ? :)
[09:16:57] <consanguinity> more of 'why would you need archived releases to get the current release' question ;)
[09:17:50] <Chipdancer> chendy: a lot of old releases have been pulled due to font license expiration
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[09:21:15] <chendy> Chipdancer: oh, thx, i've never notice that
[09:21:34] <Chipdancer> chendy: I'm not sure how far back it goes though...
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[09:22:17] <chendy> can we downgrade the pkg already installed?
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[09:27:25] <grimpy> hi everyone i have a question...
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[09:28:20] <grimpy> is it possible in opensolaris to download a package lets say SUNWgsed
[09:28:30] <grimpy> and then install it while being offline...
[09:28:49] <grimpy> i know u can install downloaded packages via pkgadd
[09:29:05] <grimpy> but i cant figure out how to download official packages in pkg format
[09:29:14] <grimpy> any help would be appreciated
[09:29:14] <Gman> there isn't a way to do that right now
[09:29:29] <grimpy> a work around?
[09:29:35] <consanguinity> will there ever be?  it's quite an important feature
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[09:30:16] <Gman> grimpy: work around is probably to install the package online, then send it to a repository locally i guess
[09:30:21] <Gman> there may be other workarounds :/
[09:30:28] <Gman> consanguinity: yes, almost certainly
[09:30:43] <grimpy> i managed to download it via pkgrecv
[09:30:50] <grimpy> but from there i am stuck with it
[09:31:07] <Gman> you could possibly use pkgrecv
[09:31:09] <Gman> right :)
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[09:31:41] <grimpy> Gman: what to do with the files i receive i dont know how to install those :-S
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[09:32:00] <Gman> you'd have to set up a local repo, send them to it, and then install from it
[09:32:04] <Gman> it's complicated :)
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[09:32:33] <grimpy> hmm
[09:32:47] <grimpy> seems to complicated idd for what i want
[09:32:48] <Gman> hopefully will have something by 2009.04
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[09:37:04] <consanguinity> they should've held off the release until january, then we could have xx.01 and xx.07
[09:39:24] <Gman> consanguinity: not sure i understand?
[09:39:38] <consanguinity> Gman: rather than ugly .11 / .04
[09:40:15] <Gman> eh, don't think too many people will care
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[09:49:33] <consanguinity> do the vmware tools for solaris 10 work on nevada?
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[09:53:23] <DTEIT> morning
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[09:58:41] <CIA-34> batschul <Frank.Batschulat at Sun dot COM>: 6646919 Issue with running the ufsrestore on a archive located on a ZFS-mounted filesystem, 6725656 ufsrestore should set permissions AFTER writing data NOT BEFORE
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[11:10:50] <sickness> morning all :)
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[11:12:13] <DTEIT> re
[11:13:07] <dustman> hej
[11:13:31] <dustman> is SUNWscpr is part of SUNWscp?
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[11:14:33] <dustman> or I'd need to download it from sun.com, since it's not in the ips repo?
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[11:28:11] <e^ipi> it's the root bit of the SUNWscpr/SUNWscpu bundle
[11:28:30] <e^ipi> in IPS it's just SUNWscp
[11:28:42] <dustman> ah, so it's part of that package
[11:28:44] <dustman> cool
[11:28:51] <dustman> ty e^ipi
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[11:34:10] * Acidic32 is learning chinese
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[11:39:29] <codestr0m> Acidic32: ??
[11:40:36] <trygvis> is it possible to figure out which binary process a defunct process was?
[11:40:54] <codestr0m> trygvis: you mean the parent?
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[11:41:07] <Dakylla> hi
[11:41:28] <Dakylla> im still working on my zfs nfs shares
[11:41:34] <trygvis> that would probably be nice too, but I want the process itself
[11:41:54] <Dakylla> how can i set ACL for my exported zfs to be writable please ?
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[11:42:24] <Dakylla> how can i tell sharenfs which right to set on the share
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[11:42:55] <Dakylla> i dig but did find nothing
[11:43:30] <Dakylla> i know how to deal witth classical nfs server (/etc/exports) but how to deal with sharenfs ?
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[11:50:57] <trygvis> which book from docs.sun.com document SMF?
[11:51:04] <trygvis> basic administration just touches it
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[12:00:23] <_coredump_> mahlzeit
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[12:32:16] <trygvis> wtf, there are processes from my zone even if the zone is not running
[12:32:21] <trygvis> they're defunct though
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[12:58:58] <CIA-34> Vallish Vaidyeshwara <Vallish.Vaidyeshwara at Sun dot COM>: 4725622 nfs thread pool library calls to _nfssys() do not handle error codes right
[13:01:47] <trygvis> is it impossible to reap processes that are owned by init?
[13:02:23] <codestr0m> trygvis: what on earth are you doing?
[13:02:32] <codestr0m> (if I may politely ask)
[13:02:53] <trygvis> I'd like to remove all the defunct processes..
[13:02:59] <trygvis> preap: Failed to reap 21655: the only non-defunct ancestor is 'init'
[13:03:13] <codestr0m> yeah, but to get that.. you had to do *something*
[13:03:23] <codestr0m> init doesn't just randomly spawn processes
[13:03:38] <trygvis> no, something with smf/zones fucked up
[13:04:06] <codestr0m> I was going to guess smf
[13:04:09] <trygvis> I doubt they where started by init (but I'd like to know, which is what I asked earlier)
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[13:04:44] <wnorrix> http://pastie.org/317729
[13:04:50] <wnorrix> I tried to install emacs
[13:05:01] <wnorrix> and now when i run pkg i run into that error
[13:05:19] <wnorrix> Do i need to do a reinstall ?? or can my installation be salvaged ?
[13:05:52] <codestr0m> trygvis: ps -ecl |grep "Z"
[13:06:23] <codestr0m> (I'm guessing you've done this already though)
[13:06:29] <trygvis> what about it?
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[13:08:41] <trygvis> init (pid=1) is the parent of all the processes
[13:09:25] <codestr0m> that's normal
[13:09:35] <codestr0m> the kernel usually calls init directly
[13:10:10] <trygvis> yes, I know. I was trying to figure out what you wanted to know with the ps command
[13:12:14] <codestr0m> trygvis: I guess you're stuck unless you reboot or someone here knows better.. I don't think the defunct process will affect performance to any large(small?) degree
[13:13:06] <trygvis> just make it hard to know if it happens again and debug why
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[13:20:11] <trygvis> yeah, SMF is definitely messing up
[13:20:31] <trygvis> it is claiming that the instance is not running, but it is
[13:21:33] <codestr0m> trygvis: you should see how they build svc (smf if just the marketing name for all the tools)
[13:22:02] <codestr0m> look in onnv about how svc/ and those tools are built.. it's really about the ugliest part of all of onnv
[13:22:30] <codestr0m> and I can imagine that it specifically makes/holds up updating parts of onnv's sqlite version
[13:22:39] <codestr0m> or at the very least makes it much more interesting
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[13:59:03] <CIA-34> Vallish Vaidyeshwara <Vallish.Vaidyeshwara at Sun dot COM>: 6761285 svc_run() should not unregister the pool
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[14:00:53] <Okona> huhu
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[14:36:23] <Dakylla> what does *LK* means in /etc/shadow please ?
[14:37:46] <asyd> locked
[14:37:48] <asyd> man shadow
[14:37:57] <Dakylla> of course
[14:37:58] <Dakylla> ;)
[14:39:04] <Dakylla> solaris is really cool man, for a server
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[14:58:50] <madwizard> Coffee?
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[15:10:32] <kim0> Hi .. I just plugged a DLink NIC in my solaris box
[15:10:40] <kim0> and I think solaris cannot "see" it
[15:10:50] <kim0> can someone please help me troubleshoot that
[15:11:18] <CosmicDJ> did you check the HCL if it'supported?
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[15:12:39] <PerterB> or if it's one of the common dlink models supported by murayama-san's drivers at http://homepage2.nifty.com/mrym3/taiyodo/eng/
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[15:13:24] <Tenkawa> anyone got a handy link to the hcl?
[15:14:08] <CosmicDJ> Mr. Google should have one
[15:14:16] <PerterB> www.sun.com/bigadmin/hcl
[15:14:20] <Tenkawa> yeah I'm looking now
[15:14:20] <kim0> PerterB: hmm
[15:14:30] <kim0> I dont know the exact model
[15:14:37] <kim0> let me get it
[15:14:43] <Tenkawa> got the link
[15:15:16] <Pummel> Is it possible to have mirros of pkg.opensolaris.org?
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[15:15:20] <PerterB> the device driver wossname tool should be able to identify it without you having to open the box
[15:15:34] <Tenkawa> ok... looks like my stuff is supported
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[15:16:07] <kim0> PerterB: wossname .. is that a command ?
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[15:16:17] <PerterB> no, it's my poor memory
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[15:16:35] <kim0> ddu ?
[15:16:41] <Tenkawa> excellent.. looks like it will work well
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[15:16:57] <Tenkawa> thinking about trying out xvm
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[15:17:12] <Berny> sddt solaris device detection tool, it's link on sun.com/bigadm/hcl
[15:17:34] <Berny> also included on sxce dvds
[15:18:04] <PerterB> that's the one
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[15:23:49] <glance> anyone here that have had sucess with modern (open)solaris on a dl385g0 ?
[15:24:15] <glance> mine is just hanging when its supposed to init the pci-subsystem.
[15:24:18] <glance> http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/1260397
[15:24:29] <glance> thats with the cpqarray-driver in the miniroot.
[15:24:44] <glance> it crashes straight away without it.
[15:25:00] <PerterB> tried disabling acpi?
[15:25:39] <glance> it worked with sol10u5 and b86 , but with b91+ and sol10u6 it panics
[15:26:02] <glance> can try to disable acpi....
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[15:28:15] <GEN0VA> hi there, how can i list empty files from multiple directories
[15:28:32] <glance> find $dirs -size 0 ?
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[15:29:21] <GEN0VA> WoW
[15:29:26] <GEN0VA> its different than linux
[15:29:28] <GEN0VA> ;) thanks
[15:29:45] * glance would do it the same way under linux
[15:29:53] <CosmicDJ> indeed
[15:30:06] <CosmicDJ> GEN0VA: how would you do it under linux?
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[15:33:37] <Tenkawa> find . -type f -size 0
[15:33:53] <kim0> I need the vfe driver .. any easy way to get it pre-compiled ?
[15:34:14] <glance> which one is the vfe driver?
[15:34:25] <kim0> which one ?
[15:34:29] <kim0> a NIC driver
[15:34:44] <kim0> http://homepage2.nifty.com/mrym3/taiyodo/eng/
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[15:35:32] <GEN0VA> i dont know how i got the find in linux... let me remember ,it doesnt appear on the history ^_^
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[15:36:17] <Tenkawa> GEN0VA: the one I paste works perfectly in linux
[15:36:19] <Tenkawa> er pasted
[15:36:23] <GEN0VA> ls -sS
[15:36:45] <GEN0VA> yes, it worked, but now as i expected ,i need the latest files created with size 0
[15:37:25] <zimmermanc> holy heck, 4GB in /tmp and still calculating
[15:37:27] <zimmermanc> :D
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[15:38:02] <Tenkawa> zimmermanc: yikes
[15:38:25] <GEN0VA> and to delete the files with size zeo-> find -maxdepth 1 -type f -size 0 -print0 | xargs -0 rm -f
[15:39:00] <GEN0VA> but how to use the find + list files? i need to list latest files created with size zero
[15:39:23] <Berny> find can search for atime, mtime, ctime too ;-)
[15:40:22] * zimmermanc is too used to using gnu find
[15:40:47] <tomww> find where -condition1 -a -condition2 -print   for testing. You could also look at -exec rm {} }\;  and for testing replace this with -exec ls -l {} }\;
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[15:41:06] <GEN0VA> ah gresat Berny
[15:41:10] <GEN0VA> i didnt know
[15:41:21] <GEN0VA> ok thanks you too tomww
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[15:42:38] <tomww> sorry, typo: -exec rm {} \;     and   -exec ls -l {} \;
[15:43:33] <PerterB> s/\\;/+/g   ;)
[15:43:34] <tomww> I always like the combination of the -exec somthing {} \; -print   (this execs and prints the found filenames)
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[15:43:56] <cchildress> good morning
[15:45:08] <tomww> PerterB: very true, "+" is more easy then \;
[15:45:33] <GEN0VA> :O thanks
[15:45:35] <GEN0VA> good advice
[15:46:23] <GEN0VA> find . -type f -size 0 -exec ls -lt {} \; <== this is not getting me the latest files created on the system with size 0...
[15:46:27] <glance> kim0: "Source file with x86 and amd64 binaries"
[15:46:33] <glance> it says on the page.
[15:47:05] <cchildress> i have two pci cards to which i have attached one hard drive each. the onboard controller has one har drive attached to it. format only reveals two hard drives...i'm not at home to check the hardware connections right now but barring a loose cable, does anyone have an idea what might be happening?
[15:47:20] <Tenkawa> GEN0VA: ls -ltr
[15:47:38] <Tenkawa> right now its going in newest to oldest right?
[15:47:38] <GEN0VA> nope, it didnt worked fine
[15:47:53] <GEN0VA> not, it displays in random way
[15:48:09] <GEN0VA> older, newest...older, newest...its extrange
[15:48:29] <zimmermanc> would a failed boot env cause this sort of usage in /tmp?
[15:48:54] <zimmermanc> kind of worried to delete it now, it's growing insanely large :D
[15:49:03] <PerterB> cchildress: run devfsadm to make sure all the device links are there
[15:49:14] <Tenkawa> works great here
[15:49:16] <Tenkawa> at least this way
[15:49:23] <Tenkawa> find . -type f -size 0 -exec ls -ltr {}  +
[15:49:38] <GEN0VA> \; ?
[15:49:46] <Tenkawa> not needed
[15:50:07] <Tenkawa> the \; gives me bad results
[15:50:08] <GEN0VA> it gives the same result
[15:50:12] <Tenkawa> not here
[15:50:12] <GEN0VA> ok ok
[15:50:17] <holcomb> + == ; sort of
[15:50:22] <Tenkawa> I get 2 very different resultsets
[15:50:26] <GEN0VA> # find . -type f -size 0 -exec ls -lt {}
[15:50:26] <GEN0VA> find: incomplete statement
[15:50:32] <Tenkawa> find . -type f -size 0 -exec ls -ltr {}  +
[15:50:34] <Tenkawa> + + + +
[15:50:35] <holcomb> it puts it all on one line as an argument to ls
[15:50:39] <Tenkawa> cannot leave out the +
[15:50:41] <GEN0VA> ends with \; its better, but it didnt gives me the records fine
[15:50:50] <holcomb> ; does one ls per line
[15:50:57] <Tenkawa> paste it exactly like I put in
[15:50:59] <GEN0VA> ah ok ok
[15:51:05] <GEN0VA> not, it gives random records
[15:51:11] <PerterB> if you do ls -ltr {} \; it will exec ls once for each file, so the order will be random
[15:51:32] <GEN0VA> yes PerterB
[15:51:37] <GEN0VA> and how can i order by date?
[15:51:38] <Tenkawa> don't know what to tell you
[15:51:43] <Tenkawa> my method works perfect here
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[15:51:55] <Tenkawa> gives me oldest to newest
[15:52:07] <Tenkawa> switch it to -lt and gives newest to oldest
[15:52:10] <GEN0VA> and this should work, but not on my solaris 10...
[15:52:25] <Tenkawa> interesting
[15:52:30] <GEN0VA> i have a lot of logs and i can't display it from older to newest
[15:52:44] <GEN0VA> it displays i random way
[15:54:09] <cchildress> PerterB: I did that, and unfortunately I still only see two of three drives
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[15:58:40] <Tenkawa> Any of you testing out xvm?
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[15:59:03] <glance> http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/1260424 <- thats how my dl385g0 did without acpi...
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[16:26:28] <evocallaghan> glance:Looks bad, please report it.
[16:27:34] <glance> how and where?
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[16:38:54] <Berny> hi Tpenta
[16:39:19] <Tpenta> hey, ... just relogging in everyting before bed (past 2am)
[16:39:32] <Berny> bugger
[16:39:42] <Berny> i was just about to ask you something :-)
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[16:40:47] <Berny> quickie: do you know of any reason why a t1000 won't boot of an fc/al attached 3511 (qlc hba)? gives an "fast data access mmu" error in openprom
[16:41:20] <Berny> host, hba all on current firmware revs
[16:41:40] <Berny> "ERROR: /pci@780/SUNW,qlc@0,1: Last Trap: Fast Data Access MMU Miss" was the exact error
[16:42:05] <itinoco> does anybody know a good performance/monitoring analisys/tool (graphs etc etc) to monitor hardware and solaris (containers, maybe logical domains)
[16:42:13] <itinoco> that isn't xvm ops center
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[16:43:45] <detrunco> I don't know if anyone is awake yet, but I have a question
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[16:47:45] <detrunco> i'm pretty new to the world of Solaris, and I seem to be having problems with updating my system
[16:49:00] <asyd> solaris, or opensolaris?
[16:49:24] <detrunco> opensolaris, fresh install off of 0805 cd
[16:50:18] <detrunco> I ran the updates from the package manager, and it made the BE clone, and seemed to work, but after the update, I get kernel panics when trying to boot into the new BE
[16:52:26] <detrunco> I'm pretty sure they are related to ZFS, as the kernel panic gives me a call stack which has entries relating to mounting the rpool
[16:53:13] <cchildress> detrunco: i've been having some issues with opensolaris as well (standard solaris wouldn't even install 2/3 times i tried). the best way that I have found to apply updates is via the commandline and not the package manager
[16:53:18] <comay> detrunco, see http://opensolaris.org/os/project/indiana/resources/rn3/image-update/
[16:53:40] <detrunco> ok
[16:53:49] <cchildress> at least, it worked significantly better for me
[16:54:00] <cchildress> i think the graphical package manager is in the early stages anyway
[16:54:33] <detrunco> I can say that I have downloaded the 0811 rc1b disc, and it also panics when trying to boot the livecd
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[16:55:01] <detrunco> I don't know if that will continue to be the case with updating as well, although they are difference panics
[16:55:19] <detrunco> r/difference/different/
[16:55:20] <comay> detrunco, can you provide a pointer to a stack trace?  and on what sort of platform?
[16:55:48] <detrunco> its a Lenovo R61 Thinkpad
[16:56:49] <detrunco> as for a pointer, I'm not too familiar with how that works
[16:57:21] <detrunco> the top line of the call stack said: "genunix: assfail+7e"
[16:57:25] <detrunco> or something close to that
[16:57:52] <detrunco> it also talked about line 2290 of zfs/spa.c (possibly slightly different filename)
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[16:57:59] <quasi> your donkey is broken
[16:58:16] <detrunco> it reboots rather quickly
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[16:59:21] <cchildress> i think i'd have to come up with some other name for the error than an assfail lol
[16:59:27] <xRaich[o]2x> detrunco: boot with -v boot option, take a pic of the screen and post a bugreport
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[17:00:08] <detrunco> ok
[17:00:19] <detrunco> the -v option goes on the kernel line in grub?
[17:00:27] <xRaich[o]2x> yep
[17:00:30] <detrunco> ok
[17:00:33] <xRaich[o]2x> just append it
[17:01:01] <detrunco> I rolled back the update with beadm, but when I get back to school later today, I will update again (fat pipes)
[17:01:26] <detrunco> I might be back on here to get a little help with bug reporting :) I haven't really done much of that before
[17:02:34] <detrunco> bbl
[17:02:41] <detrunco> thx for the help so far!
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[17:23:08] <Tobbe> By default, is the root filesystem UFS or ZFS on 2008.11RC1b?
[17:24:52] <xRaich[o]2x> Tobbe: zfs
[17:25:16] <zimmermanc> can lustre be used as a shared storage(distributed) file system, aka gfs , ocfs2 ?
[17:26:53] <Tobbe> xRaich[o]2x: thanks
[17:27:23] <asyd> zimmermanc: well, it's the goal of olustre, isn'it?
[17:28:35] <zimmermanc> no idea asyd :\
[17:29:47] <zimmermanc> it's a clustered filesystem, but does it actually work in a shared storage environment. aka 2 machines using the exact same filesystem. cluster != shared(distributed)
[17:30:21] <Tobbe> I'm reading a couple of guides on enabling samba. (I want to access files on my Solaris box from my Windows boxes.) One guide tells me to run 'svcadm enable -r smb/server' and the other tells me to run 'svcadm enable samba'. Which one should I use?
[17:31:23] <Asako> smb/server is the kernel cifs server
[17:31:34] <Asako> integrates with zfs more
[17:31:52] <asyd> zimmermanc: 2 machines using the same storage? if yes, ineed I don't think it's the goal of lustre
[17:32:14] <Tobbe> Asako: Ok. pros/cons?
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[17:33:02] <Asako> Tobbe, cifs was made by sun, samba isn't
[17:33:03] <zimmermanc> ok, i got the impression it was more for clustering several storage nodes together into a single filesystem
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[17:33:10] <Asako> I haven't really compared them that much
[17:33:11] <libkeiser> and shared storage filesystem != distributed filesystem.  they serve radically different purposes
[17:33:34] <zimmermanc> hehe, i didn't mean to argue semantics
[17:33:38] <asyd> yeah indeed, I was the one who confuse :)
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[17:33:39] <zimmermanc> just trying to explain what i meant
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[17:34:13] <Tobbe> the guide that uses smb/server creates a new zfs file system for sharing. Do I have to do that?
[17:34:37] <Asako> yeah, that's how it works
[17:34:49] <Asako> zfs create rpool/share -o sharesmb=on
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[17:34:59] <Asako> something like that
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[17:35:08] <stevel> damn nick limits
[17:35:22] <Tobbe> but I already have my full disk occupied by my current file system
[17:35:46] <CosmicDJ> ufs?
[17:36:09] <Tobbe> idk, zfs I think as that's apparently the default
[17:36:22] <Asako> run zpool list
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[17:37:00] <Tobbe> shows 'rpool'
[17:37:08] <Tobbe> using all available space
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[17:37:33] <Asako> so your AVAIL is 0?
[17:37:42] <Asako> some how I doubt it
[17:38:10] <Tobbe> ohh, no, avail is 133, but size is the full disk capacity
[17:38:16] <Asako> right
[17:38:24] <Asako> the size is the total pool size, not what's in use
[17:40:09] <Tobbe> so as long as not everything is used I can create another file system=
[17:40:10] <Tobbe> ?
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[17:41:04] <Asako> you can create as many file systems as you want
[17:41:35] <Tobbe> will I have to give it a size, or will they grow as needed?
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[17:41:59] <Asako> they all share space in the pool
[17:42:08] <Asako> you can set reservations if you want
[17:42:36] <Asako> http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/819-5461 read this
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[17:43:06] <Tobbe> thank you, I will :)
[17:46:49] <gerard13> can i have help with ccmake? i got this error: ld: fatal: library -library=stlport4: not found
[17:46:52] <Asako> and also the best practices guide
[17:47:03] <gerard13> but stlport4 is here
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[18:37:11] <mikearthur> hey guys
[18:37:17] <mikearthur> can I build packages for Solaris from OpenSolaris?
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[18:43:13] <TomJ> mikearthur: OpenSolaris uses a different packaging system (IPS) than Solaris
[18:43:23] <mikearthur> ok
[18:43:25] <TomJ> you ight be able to build Solaris-style packages, see if you have pkgmk installed
[18:43:26] <mikearthur> are the two BC?
[18:43:31] <TomJ> no
[18:43:40] <mikearthur> gah ok
[18:43:45] <TomJ> well, OpenSolaris can instlal Solaris packages
[18:43:51] <mikearthur> but not vice-versa
[18:43:52] <TomJ> so OpenSolaris is backwards compat with Solaris packages
[18:44:02] <TomJ> but the two systems are not compatible, and no Solaris can't install IPS packages
[18:44:05] <mikearthur> ok
[18:44:10] <mikearthur> next question :)
[18:44:14] <mikearthur> is there a Qt package anywhere?
[18:44:22] <mikearthur> for 10.5
[18:44:44] <e^ipi> 10.5?
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[18:45:06] <mikearthur> 2008.5 sorry
[18:45:11] <mikearthur> too many OSs floating around :)
[18:45:39] <Archite> So, I've still been having issues where gtk apps suddenly slow down. We thought it might be due to memory use but I have pre and post starting X11 stats. Even with 50% memory free, issues still occurs.
[18:45:43] <Archite> pre http://pastebin.com/d3b8774bb
[18:45:43] <Archite> post http://pastebin.com/d11224e09
[18:46:48] <Archite> any ideas would be very helpful
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[18:57:29] <throwt> how much ram do you have?
[18:57:50] <Archite> 2GB
[18:58:11] <sfuentes> solaris can't install IPS packages?
[18:58:15] <Archite> I'm thinking of upgrading to 4GB but I don't think it will resolve this issue
[18:58:17] <tsoome> hm, thats a little too few for human brain...
[18:58:18] <sfuentes> is that a good thing?
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[18:58:55] <CIA-34> Ali Bahrami <Ali.Bahrami at Sun dot COM>: 6763342 sloppy relocations need to get sloppier
[19:01:13] <Archite> throwt, even now with 10% free, I'm still getting apps locking up. XChat does a lot.
[19:01:20] <Archite> xterm does not though
[19:02:24] <TomJ> sfuentes: no it cant
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[19:02:49] <Asako> any way to fix my mouse being out of sync on vnc windows for xvm installs?
[19:03:38] <sfuentes> TomJ: is there a good reason for this?
[19:03:49] <TomJ> sfuentes: yes
[19:03:56] <sfuentes> i guess its not stable
[19:03:59] <TomJ> IPS is brand new, it won't go into Solaris for some time, maybe a year
[19:04:00] <sfuentes> ips that is
[19:04:03] <FrostCS> yes, so I won't scream and yell
[19:04:08] <FrostCS> that is a good reason :-P
[19:04:22] <sfuentes> makes sense
[19:04:39] <alanc_away> you can install IPS on Solaris if you want to, it's just not included
[19:04:58] <alanc_away> would only be used to add on additional packages, not for the OS packages
[19:05:41] <TomJ> and would break on zones presumably
[19:05:43] <Asako> any way to set usbdevice=tablet by default?
[19:05:44] <TomJ> or not work with them anyway
[19:05:56] <holcomb> it kind of hoses up /var/sadm iirc
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[19:13:48] <codestr0m> jamesd: ping
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[19:17:50] <sfuentes> viva solaris!
[19:17:55] <sfuentes> :)
[19:18:00] <Archite> heh
[19:18:33] <Archite> throwt, any ideas on this issue I'm having? It's quite frustrating since this is my main system ;)
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[19:20:27] <sfuentes> " I convinced the marketing department at my then-employer to issue a press release trumpeting our migration to Red Hat Linux (spawning a Slashdot posting, a Webmonkey article, a piece in PC World, and a mention in a News.com story ). Despite the flurry of attention that migration brought, the dirty little secret of this Linux proponent was the Sun E450 I had in the server room running our content management system (which
[19:20:27] <sfuentes>  was open-source based and ran great on Solaris) and our mission-critical Oracle database. "
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[19:24:15] <throwt> Archite: is it booted from the cd?
[19:24:42] <Archite> no, I'm running snv_101a from main hdd
[19:25:38] <zimmermanc> i hate the word mission-critical
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[19:26:37] <zimmermanc> will the world blow up if it goes down? then it's not mission-critical. quit using the word :D
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[19:28:17] <bda> Will your enterprise fall over if your mission critical components explode?
[19:28:18] <bda> Probably.
[19:28:39] <sfuentes> boOm!
[19:28:49] <madwizard> sfuentes: Link, please?
[19:28:55] <sfuentes> there goes 10,000 dollars in potential revenue
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[19:29:41] <sfuentes> in todays day in age, internet (online commerce presense) time is costly
[19:30:28] <sfuentes> madwizard: its a bit outdate: http://weblog.infoworld.com/dickerson/000691.html
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[19:31:51] <sfuentes> " An excellent choice, but no one issues press releases about rock-solid Sun boxes running Oracle. They were just too commonplace. "
[19:32:01] <sfuentes> wtf?
[19:32:48] <sfuentes> talk about not being happy with a stable and quiet system
[19:33:55] <glance> anyone can help me with a "BAD TRAP" ?
[19:33:57] <glance> http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/1260453
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[19:36:42] <CosmicDJ> glance: are you sure your hardware is alright?
[19:37:05] <glance> it woks like a charm running linux...
[19:37:58] <glance> it boots s10u5 fine, but crashes booting s10u6
[19:38:37] <CosmicDJ> hm, sun has a list of install issues online; smth in there that could match your hardware/software?
[19:40:17] <CosmicDJ> docs.sun.com
[19:40:50] <glance> the same problem shows up if you install s10u5 and live-upgrade to s10u6
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[19:50:10] <plavcik> I like to use ZFS + virtualisation, I think that I shall choose Solaris 10 10/08 or SXCE (b101), I have feeling, that Solaris 10 (10/08) is more ready for production / stable, is that correct understanding? exist some reason to not use it?
[19:50:32] <CosmicDJ> glance: as I said, look at the install docs ; otherwise call your service technician...
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[19:54:38] <capaz> plavcik: if there are features you need from SXCE that have not yet been put-back to Solaris 10.
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[19:55:40] <TomJ> Solaris 10 IS ready for production/stable
[19:55:42] <TomJ> SXCE is not intended to be
[19:55:50] <TomJ> and usualy is not
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[19:55:52] <capaz> Sol 10 10/08 is about six months behind SXCE.  b# in the 80's, maybe?
[19:56:17] <capaz> ...I forget.
[19:56:53] <plavcik> ZFS on root is there, which is good, I have to double check virtualisation
[19:57:01] <dvz> glance: did you check sunsolve?
[19:57:32] <plavcik> I have some virtual machines on VirtualBox and like to run them on server
[19:57:51] <Asako> 10/08 doesn't include AVS
[19:57:55] <zimmermanc> is it possible to install packagename*
[19:57:55] <glance> i have, but i didn't find anything usefull.
[19:58:20] <TomJ> VirtualBox will run on Solaris 10/08, though test it first as I've had some issues on 5/08
[19:58:37] <dvz> glance: what kind of machine is it?
[19:58:38] <Asako> is xvm included?
[19:58:41] <glance> its a dl385g0 , so its certified to work with solaris...
[19:58:52] <h3sp4wn> Does anyone know how to run a 64 bit guest on VirtualBox (SXCE host)
[19:59:23] <TomJ> h3sp4wn: I know you have to use 2.0.2
[19:59:27] <h3sp4wn> The changelog implies for 2.0 there is 64 bit guest support but there is nothing in the gui I can see
[19:59:41] <TomJ> read the manual?
[20:00:08] <plavcik> AVS = Sun StorageTek Availability Suite?
[20:00:10] <TomJ> oh
[20:00:13] <TomJ> it's not supported, h3sp4wn
[20:00:19] <TomJ> http://forums.virtualbox.org/viewtopic.php?p=44694&sid=295fb90285b9efc65697f5ebc295fbc3
[20:00:28] <TomJ> no wait
[20:00:29] <TomJ> it is
[20:00:31] <Asako> plavcik, yes
[20:00:36] <TomJ> i'll just stop trying to help now
[20:01:00] <plavcik> Asako: thx, then this is fortunatelly issues for me
[20:01:11] <plavcik> Asako: thx, then this is fortunatelly no issue for me
[20:01:14] <capaz> xVM Server is still in Early Access 3
[20:02:02] <plavcik> I will try VirtulBox, which shall be the simplest
[20:02:03] <Asako> hmm
[20:02:06] <plavcik> thx for all answers
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[20:03:09] <h3sp4wn> incase anyone cares you need to enable hardware virtualisation to run 64 bit guests
[20:03:58] <plavcik> Asako: I just need to start spamd on OpenBSd inside virtual machine
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[20:11:20] <alanc_away> capaz: Solaris 10 is a completely different branch - it would be equivalent to Nevada build 0, with individual features & bug fixes brought over, not all the Nevada changes
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[20:12:50] <capaz> I think I understand that; was referring to those features that were put back.
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[20:14:00] <capaz> several Sun folks talked about this at LISA last week, but still not crystal clear to me.
[20:19:27] <capaz> if I understoodd correctly, those features/fixes that do become available in Solaris 10 will have baked in OpenSolaris for ~6 months.
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[20:20:20] <capaz> if I'm misunderstanding or misremembering what I heard, I'm open to correction.  :-)
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[20:21:10] <capaz> 'course, you all are probably sick of explaining it.
[20:22:05] <Asako> it seems the same as Fedora/Redhat EL to me
[20:22:28] <Asako> solaris 10 is proven, rock solid code
[20:23:44] <TomJ> Is it possible to use RBAC to give a non-root user access to run an arbitrary program as root, one that does not know about RBAC?  i.e. kind of like setuid I guess, but for a specific user
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[20:24:04] <holcomb> yes.
[20:24:12] <tsoome> its no isue at all:D
[20:24:15] <holcomb> there's a url somewhere...
[20:24:15] <tsoome> issue*
[20:24:26] <holcomb> http://blogs.sun.com/darren/entry/opensolaris_rbac_vs_sudo_howto
[20:24:27] <Asako> intro to RBAC?
[20:24:30] <slonik> hello everyone
[20:24:37] <tsoome> simple - give him access for /bin/sh as root...
[20:24:41] <TomJ> perfect thanks holcomb, tsoome
[20:24:47] <TomJ> oh, -tsoome
[20:24:47] <TomJ> :P
[20:24:49] <holcomb> haha
[20:24:52] <TomJ> :
[20:24:53] <TomJ> )
[20:25:18] <tsoome> except it defeats the whole purpose of rbac tbh...
[20:25:22] <slonik> maybe it's common problem, but I can't boot LiveCD - it stops at "Use is subject to license terms" and nothing happens
[20:26:03] <TomJ> holcomb: that example relates to giving a user access to run ALL commands as root - but it's possible for a single given command too, right?
[20:26:14] <holcomb> yeah.  see prof_attr
[20:26:22] <slonik> anyone has idea what could I do?
[20:26:31] <holcomb> instead of giving them primary administrator, set one up with specific commands that can be run as uid=0
[20:26:34] <holcomb> then give them that profile
[20:26:37] <dvz> slonik: boot -v
[20:27:18] <slonik> dvz, where should I type it?
[20:27:30] <TomJ> ok it's the bit where I give access to a command as uid=0 that I dont know
[20:27:44] <TomJ> oh wait
[20:27:45] <TomJ> sorry, got it
[20:27:48] <TomJ> euid=0
[20:27:51] <TomJ> in exec_attr
[20:27:51] <holcomb> err i mean exec_attr
[20:27:55] <holcomb> yeah.
[20:28:00] <TomJ> thanks :) (I'll stop writing over 10 lines instead of one now)
[20:28:33] <dvz> slonik: on x86 machne in grub menu at the end of "kernel" line
[20:29:08] <slonik> ok
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[20:29:33] <dvz> i mean only add "-v"
[20:29:54] <detrunco> hola amigos
[20:30:03] <dvz> boot -v would be for sparc machine
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[20:30:28] <detrunco> I have a little problem with my install, after an upgrade
[20:30:40] <slonik> ok, I'll see
[20:31:19] <detrunco> I keep getting kernel panics on the new BE
[20:31:23] <sfuentes> rbac
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[20:32:05] <hecki> hi
[20:32:21] <bubbva> hey!
[20:32:32] <detrunco> a call stack gets printed, but the computer reboots so fast, I can't really write anything down
[20:32:35] <codestr0m> detrunco: can you add -v to the boot options and give more info?
[20:32:38] <slonik> dvz, kernel$ /platform/i86pc/kernel/$ISADIR/unix -B livemode=text -v, right?
[20:33:18] <detrunco> codestr0m: even with the -v, it still reboots quickly
[20:33:44] <detrunco> i've thought about taking a digital picture of the screen, but didn't know if there was a more sane way of doing it
[20:33:45] <codestr0m> detrunco: umm.. -kv iirc.. stops the reboot.. (I can't remember sorry)
[20:33:45] <dvz> slonik: right
[20:34:21] <codestr0m> could you also always try hitting pause key (I know that may sound stupid..)
[20:34:28] <dvz> slonik: you should be booting in verbose mode
[20:34:32] <detrunco> yeah, I tried the pause key as well
[20:35:07] <detrunco> it says something about "die+dd" at the top of the stack
[20:35:45] <detrunco> it actually says the same thing when I try to boot into the OpenSolaris 200811 rc1b livecd
[20:35:56] <detrunco> same call stack that is
[20:36:58] <slonik> dvz, yes I know. it stopped after detecting uhci3 (PCI-E) and freezed
[20:37:12] <codestr0m> detrunco: not sure where to point you.. check the grub manual, but I'm 99% sure it's possible to stop the reboot
[20:37:27] <detrunco> ok
[20:37:41] <detrunco> once I get a copy of the call stack, where do I go from there?
[20:37:53] <detrunco> i'm assuming filing a bug report would be on the list of todos
[20:38:03] <detrunco> or at least searching for an existing bug
[20:38:07] <codestr0m> detrunco: yeah.. either bugs.sun.com or probably better is bugs.opensolaris.org
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[20:38:59] <detrunco> I guess I also wonder, if its possible to run an image-update to a non-devel version
[20:39:29] <detrunco> the base install I am working with is the snv_86, and snv_101a seems to disagree with this hardware
[20:39:38] <detrunco> would an upgrade to snv_99 work?
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[20:39:59] <xRaich[o]2x> codestr0m: -kv sends him into the debugger the moment he boots. ;)
[20:40:13] <codestr0m> detrunco: the only way to get a specific version that I'm aware of it grab the corresponding iso from genunix.org
[20:40:15] <dvz> slonik: did you check if the hardware is compatible with opensolaris? with sun device detection tool for example?
[20:40:43] <codestr0m> xRaich[o]2x: ok. well you see I *was* sorta on the right track ;)
[20:40:50] <slonik> dvz, umm no... I'll try that
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[20:41:47] <dvz> slonik: seems to be issue with usb interface
[20:42:52] <holcomb> i had a seagate usb card that it would barf on - thought it was a scsi controller
[20:42:58] <slonik> dvz, I'll have a look on the compatibility tool, maybe it'll tell me something
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[20:46:35] <detrunco> i'll try a few more reboots
[20:46:36] <detrunco> bbl
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[20:47:07] <slonik> dvz, it says it hasn't got proper driver for gfx card
[20:47:21] <slonik> and audio, but I don't care about audio
[20:48:50] <TomJ> hey holcomb, having some trouble getting it working if you have a moment?.  this is what I have:  http://pastebin.com/m282d92cb
[20:50:47] <holcomb> try uid instead of euid
[20:50:51] <holcomb> (i'm just guessing by the way)
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[20:52:01] <TomJ> works thanks :)
[20:53:34] <codestr0m> twisti: you mouse issue you had earlier. was that just building the spec file or was there more to it than the evil gpl3?
[20:55:06] <dvz> slonik: which cd are you booting?
[20:55:08] <twisti> The spec file says it has been dropped since 2.24 because of GPLv3.
[20:55:22] <twisti> And I haven't built myself yet.
[20:55:29] <slonik> dvz, you mean version?
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[20:55:54] <dvz> slonik i mean 2008.something
[20:56:10] <slonik> dvz, the newest one
[20:56:26] <codestr0m> ok
[20:56:46] <slonik> dvz, 2008.05
[20:58:03] <dvz> you can try to install 2008.11
[20:58:28] <dvz> i can't think of any easy way of fixing this
[20:58:43] <CIA-34> Michael Speer <Michael.Speer at Sun dot COM>: 6760353 MAXQ with IPV6 test failed via hxge, 6768510 Array overrun in hxge
[20:58:43] <CIA-34> Dan McDonald <danmcd at sun dot com>: 6769230 ifconfig gives tunnel security warnings when it shouldn't
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[20:59:01] <slonik> dvz, is there a way to install it without X anyway?
[20:59:10] <dvz> looks like uhci driver is not getting along with your hardware
[20:59:25] <dvz> 2008.05 no
[20:59:38] <dvz> you can give SXCE a try
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[21:02:03] <slonik> dvz, ok, thanks, I'll give a try
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[21:15:44] <victori> is there any way to check dma status on a sata disk ?
[21:16:35] <codestr0m> victori: missing hdparm :P
[21:16:37] <codestr0m> ?
[21:16:51] <victori> still trying to figure out my disk issues with solaris
[21:16:53] <victori> it is driving me insane
[21:16:56] <slonik> dvz, I'll try to download Solaris 10, and if it won't work I'll just leave it and wait ;-)
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[21:18:17] <Triskelios> victori: sata doesn't really have dma configuration
[21:18:38] <victori> my sata disks write at 2-3mb/sec .. just really really bad
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[21:19:00] <throwt> yikes.
[21:19:05] <throwt> how much ram?
[21:19:10] <victori> 4gigs
[21:19:16] <throwt> try with 2 if you can
[21:19:23] <victori> intel server grade motherboard, S5000PAL
[21:19:38] <victori> it is running in 64-bit mode
[21:19:55] <Triskelios> victori: format -e can toggle the write cache...
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[21:20:03] <zimmermanc> sata is dma 5 by default
[21:20:07] <zimmermanc> iirc
[21:20:18] <throwt> are you using xvm?
[21:20:24] <victori> Write Cache is enabled
[21:20:26] <victori> no
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[21:20:44] <throwt> try with 2gb ram if thats not too much of a trouble
[21:20:46] <victori> maybe disable write cache?! it can't possibly get worse
[21:21:02] <victori> throwt:  can't it is already 90 miles away ;-(
[21:21:09] <zimmermanc> throwt out of curiosity, what makes you think there's an issue, i mean what benchmark are you running
[21:21:18] <victori> good ol dd
[21:21:30] <bda> Is the pool full? Does ZFS have the full disks, or a slice/partition of them?
[21:21:41] <Triskelios> victori: what block size?
[21:21:43] <bda> Have you looked at the size of your ARC?
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[21:21:49] <throwt> my experience with xvm on my machine with 5.5gb of ram was that sometimes transfer is 2-3MB/s.  and from what I read, it had to do with a buggy driver and dma transfer issues
[21:21:53] <victori>   dd if=/dev/urandom of=foo bs=1024k count=50  .. not using zeros to avoid zfs compression optimziation
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[21:22:08] <Stric> victori: wrong benchmark
[21:22:09] <victori> optimization *
[21:22:22] <Stric> victori: you're benchmarking /dev/urandom, which seems to do about 2-3MB/s on your machine
[21:22:24] <victori> Stric: okay what do you propose ?
[21:22:27] <bda> Heh.
[21:22:28] <victori> no I checked
[21:22:29] <bda> filebench.
[21:22:36] <Stric> turn off compression, use /dev/zero
[21:22:50] <victori> Stric:  my urandom does 30-40mb
[21:23:03] <Stric> for how long? entropy isn't free..
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[21:23:12] <victori> 52428800 bytes (52 MB) copied, 2.06089 s, 25.4 MB/s  to dev null
[21:23:30] <Triskelios> Stric: urandom should only have minimum entropy guarantees
[21:23:34] <codestr0m> victori: I've told you before to use /dev/zero and how to turn off fsync
[21:23:38] <Stric> still, just for a good fun.. try compression off and try with /dev/zero
[21:23:56] <codestr0m> turn on*
[21:24:07] <dvz> slonik: i'd go with solaris express, i don't think sol. 10 will have better hardware support than opensolaris
[21:24:08] <Triskelios> I would do I/O directly on the disk if you're concerned it's a sata driver issue
[21:24:18] <victori> codestr0m: what was the fsync trick for dd?
[21:24:30] <Stric> that too, but first step is to leave /dev/urandom out of it
[21:24:52] <codestr0m> victori: sec. I'll look in history
[21:24:57] <victori> thanks , sorry
[21:24:59] <zimmermanc> Is it safe to delete a failed BE in /tmp ?
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[21:25:16] <victori> beadm destroy ?
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[21:25:37] <zimmermanc> k, i was just going to delete, but that makes more sense :)
[21:25:55] <Triskelios> zimmermanc: don't you usually have to unmount it first, anyway?
[21:26:07] <codestr0m> victori:  /opt/sfw/bin/dd if=/dev/zero of=foo bs=1024k count=10000 conv=fsync
[21:26:17] <codestr0m> put a lower count if you like
[21:26:32] <victori> codestr0m: thanks
[21:26:39] <victori> ya doing 50mb
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[21:26:47] <victori> 52428800 bytes (52 MB) copied, 17.3447 s, 3.0 MB/s  makes me cry
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[21:27:33] <zimmermanc> Triskelios,  just to delete the files? that seems counterintuitive, though it was a dumb question. i should be using beadm
[21:27:41] <zimmermanc> what did you mean? i'm guessing that's not what you menat
[21:27:49] <Stric> dd if=/dev/rdsk/yourdisks2 of=/dev/null bs=1024k count=10000  then?
[21:27:56] <zimmermanc> nvm, i see what you meant
[21:28:04] <victori> Stric: write
[21:28:08] <victori> writes are the issue
[21:28:26] <Triskelios> zimmermanc: no no, I meant why were you asking about /tmp? it's only mounted there temporarily
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[21:28:31] <victori> At least zfs ARC hides the read performance I suppose
[21:29:22] <zimmermanc> just trying to wrap my head around zfs and be's. no worry's it was a dumb quetion
[21:29:32] <victori> Stric:  52428800 bytes (52 MB) copied, 2.15699 s, 24.3 MB/s
[21:29:49] <zimmermanc> < obviously a solaris newb ;)
[21:29:54] <Stric> that's pretty sucky performance too ;)
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[21:30:21] <Stric> victori: dma info might be in output from dmesg
[21:31:59] <victori> ultradma mode 2 but it might for the the IDE cdrom
[21:32:30] <zimmermanc> ya sata disks are dma5 by default
[21:32:33] <Triskelios> Stric: DMA is required as part of the SATA spec, so it can't be disabled
[21:32:56] <victori> any way to check in which dma an sata disk is in?
[21:33:24] <Stric> victori: is your BIOS set to actually use SATA mode, or is it set to IDE compat? Most bios manufacturers seems to default to that compat crap that lacks performance (but works in winxp without extra drivers)
[21:33:28] <CosmicDJ> hm BIOS?!
[21:33:30] <victori> sata mode, ahci
[21:33:32] <victori> tried both
[21:33:45] <victori> both have this regression
[21:33:53] <CosmicDJ> IIRC you have to relabel/reformat when you change..
[21:34:05] <Triskelios> the ahci driver does have some known performance problems... but you usally get at least 20MB/s writes
[21:34:07] <CosmicDJ> but I could be wrong
[21:34:10] <Triskelios> CosmicDJ: no...
[21:34:14] <CosmicDJ> ok
[21:34:19] <victori> any other ideas?
[21:34:30] <CosmicDJ> is buying SAS an option? ;)
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[21:34:41] <victori> could the hardware be bad possibly? I have yet to try another OS, since the server is already mounted at a colo
[21:34:46] <Triskelios> victori: try I/O to the disk directly, it could be a zfs problem
[21:34:57] <victori> Triskelios: I have already done it
[21:34:59] <victori> it is slow
[21:35:10] <victori> goes from 3 mb to 4.5mb
[21:35:20] <Triskelios> wow, that's bad
[21:35:44] <victori> this makes no sense, intel motherboard, esb2 sata controller
[21:36:05] <zimmermanc> what driver is loaded for the controller
[21:36:27] <victori> checking
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[21:36:44] <victori> sata ?
[21:37:10] <Triskelios> prtconf -D
[21:37:29] <victori> scsi_vhci
[21:37:53] <victori> and for the disks sd
[21:38:06] <victori> top level is ahci
[21:38:58] <zimmermanc> :( just throwing it out there. just noticed i'm running pci-ide heh. sorry
[21:39:13] <victori> looks right no?
[21:39:35] <houst0n-> zimmermanc: What are you apologising for?
[21:39:44] <zimmermanc> wish i could help :D
[21:40:14] <houst0n-> Well .. that's ok I'm sure he'll forgive you - no need to apologise though
[21:40:23] <houst0n-> It's weak... and these bastards love the smell of fear
[21:40:32] * houst0n- throws dead animals at #opensolaris people
[21:40:35] <houst0n-> ;)
[21:40:45] <vmlemon_> Penguins? ;)
[21:40:52] <zimmermanc> haha, i'm not weak, just nice,
[21:40:55] * zimmermanc gets out his spear
[21:40:58] <houst0n-> They've been killed by ... a large sun and some angry daemons
[21:41:01] <victori> I think my sata issues might be a lost cause
[21:41:10] <Triskelios> victori: worth filing a bug for
[21:41:21] <victori> Triskelios: I have, already taken it up with the driver author
[21:41:25] <victori> he has no idea
[21:41:38] <houst0n-> victori: File a bug =) At least then SUN can tell you it's a lost cause and not some random mostly non-sun people on irc.
[21:41:53] <houst0n-> Because lets face it, how many non-sun people are developing solaris?
[21:42:00] <victori> ya I already got a "no clue why this is happening" response from the driver author from SUN
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[21:42:07] <houst0n-> witha  bugid?
[21:42:10] <victori> yes
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[21:42:16] <houst0n-> did they close it?
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[21:42:41] <FrostCS> is that a trick question?
[21:42:49] <houst0n-> Yes
[21:42:49] <victori> "It's so strange, the write performance is so abnormal. Would you please try to install Linux and check how the performance is?"  quote from the last bugid report email
[21:42:52] <FrostCS> I find much humour in those ;-)
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[21:43:11] <houst0n-> victori: hahaha I'd print that and get it framed if I was you
[21:43:12] <victori> #6739311
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[21:43:19] <CosmicDJ> at least they didnt ask you to install windoze ;)
[21:43:30] <codestr0m> victori: can you give remote access to the box in the future if it's not resolved in the next month or so?
[21:43:40] <victori> I should of just went with freebsd from the get go
[21:43:54] <houst0n-> No comment
[21:43:55] <victori> codestr0m: sure why not as long as you work on the second disk
[21:44:02] <vmlemon_> Didn't they say "if Linux is faster, then it's a bug"? ;)
[21:44:15] <FrostCS> that was filed as a bug also
[21:44:18] <victori> two disks in it, I had to disable mirror raid since that made problems even worse
[21:44:20] <FrostCS> afternoon gdamore.
[21:44:21] <victori> 1mb/sec writes
[21:44:29] <codestr0m> victori: ok. after I've done my reading up on the issue and some kernel internals I'd like to take a look
[21:44:31] <victori> zfs mirror*
[21:44:36] <houst0n-> go with a stripe?
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[21:44:46] <victori> I need data integrity on this
[21:44:48] <houst0n-> just get 5 4mb/s disks?
[21:44:48] <houst0n-> ;)
[21:45:13] <houst0n-> And this is the same with ufs?
[21:45:17] <victori> just 1 more disk slot in the rackmount, so  I can only do 3 disks
[21:45:30] <victori> did it direct to disk, so fs is not the issue
[21:45:30] <houst0n-> read is fine but write is slow?
[21:45:35] <victori> read is 24mb/sec
[21:45:37] <victori> direct from disk
[21:45:43] <FrostCS> buy a thumper, save a sun employee for a month.
[21:45:49] <Triskelios> FrostCS: haha
[21:45:50] <houst0n-> haha
[21:45:53] <bda> FrostCS: ++
[21:46:04] <houst0n-> they're letting engineering people go?
[21:46:10] <victori> thumpers use e1000g nics right?
[21:46:15] <FrostCS> that's an understatement...
[21:46:17] <vmlemon_> "Let my (engineering) people go!"
[21:46:22] <houst0n-> I thought it'd just be janitors/receptionists etc
[21:46:24] <houst0n-> :P
[21:46:28] <e^ipi> FrostCS: we don't get paid that much...
[21:46:31] <houst0n-> the little blonde chick that blows the execs
[21:46:31] <houst0n-> etc
[21:46:33] <vmlemon_> </CrapMovieMisquote>
[21:46:40] <houst0n-> Oop, I've said too much
[21:46:41] * houst0n- leaves
[21:47:12] <Triskelios> victori: it's worth looking at intrstat and the time spent in the kernel during writes...
[21:47:47] <victori> Trident: I already checked that interrupts look normal
[21:47:52] <houst0n-> there has to be a dtrace script that'll explain all of this in a number of seconds somewhere ...
[21:48:56] <victori> I wish there was
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[21:55:57] <houst0n-> victori: http://blogs.sun.com/chrisg/resource/scsi_d/scsi.d-1.15 <-- may help?
[21:56:09] <houst0n-> I'm not a dtrace person really though but it seems that script does a lot
[21:56:33] * houst0n- out
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[21:56:56] <bahamat> I'd like to install Solaris on my workstation, I'm a long time Linux user and I'm looking for a quickstart guide
[21:57:41] <victori> bahamat: opensolaris.com
[21:57:55] <codestr0m> bondolo: go to genunix.org download the latest iso and use the installer found on the desktop
[21:58:06] <codestr0m> bondolo: nm. wrong person*
[21:58:17] *** Tobbe|autoaway is now known as Tobbe
[21:58:31] <bahamat> victori: I have OpenSolaris, and Solaris on disc already.  I'm investigating it for use in a production server environment so I want to be running what I'll be running in production
[21:58:38] <CIA-34> Peter Shoults <Peter.Shoults at Sun dot COM>: 6712440 AES-256 not functioning on T6320 chip, 6748874 Assertion panic in cryptmod due to incorrect calculation of assertion.
[21:58:45] <houst0n-> bahamat: Go with solaris 10 for that gig
[21:59:04] <victori> bahamat: don't use opensolaris
[21:59:07] <LeftyBSD> hmm, question - is it possible to un-destroy a destroyed snapshot of a zfs filesystem?
[21:59:38] <bahamat> houst0n-: which I have, I've installed Solaris on a VM before, but didn't really spend much time with it.  I figure that if it's my workstation I'll be forced to use it
[21:59:46] <Stric> LeftyBSD: snapshots, no..
[21:59:51] <Stric> destroyed pools, yes
[21:59:56] <LeftyBSD> ahh, ok, thanks Stric
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[22:00:13] <LeftyBSD> I remember reading that pools can be undestroyed, but I was hoping snapshots worked the same way :)
[22:00:14] <houst0n-> bahamat: Solaris 10 doesn't really make for the most pretty of desktops driver wise .. I'd just use it in a vm if you want to get a feel for it before you deploy it
[22:00:37] <houst0n-> If you do go with it, you can find most of the usual software (mplayer, transmission, firefox etc) at blastwave.org
[22:00:39] <victori> I got shafted with deployment of opensolaris ;-(
[22:00:53] <bahamat> houst0n-: I don't need a pretty desktop
[22:01:03] <houst0n-> Really
[22:01:53] <bahamat> houst0n-: I only need basic things, for the most part.  OpenOffice, Firefox, Thunderbird or Evolution and a term will get me by
[22:02:59] <bahamat> The first thing that I figure I need to do is get a system installed, add my user account and set up rbac
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[22:06:54] <zimmermanc> is pkgbuild only available to install via source? don't see it via IPS
[22:08:51] <tomww> pkgbuild is not part of IPS, it probably never will or get integrated ... who knows
[22:08:52] <houst0n-> zimmermanc: Just install the jds cbe 1.7 beta (aka dtbld)
[22:08:57] <tomww> +1
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[22:11:56] <zimmermanc> you just said some alphabet soup there. i'm new, but i recognized none of what you just said
[22:11:57] <zimmermanc> lol
[22:12:13] <zimmermanc> google to the rescue
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[22:17:39] <sfuentes> u awake?
[22:17:57] <Pummel> how can I update or re-generate locales?
[22:18:02] <zimmermanc> haha
[22:18:33] <zimmermanc> i'm not sure yet i want this over sfe , the spec file i want to build is on SFE
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[22:20:27] <zimmermanc> stupid pkgbuild configure script keeps wanting to use gnu automake instead of sun's grr
[22:21:36] <alanc> Sun doesn't have an automake
[22:21:50] <zimmermanc> am i totally mucking it up here. seems like it should be using suncc not gcc
[22:21:56] <Pummel> nobody knows how to rebuild locales on solaris?
[22:22:19] <alanc> probably someone on the i18n-discuss mailing list/forum
[22:22:37] <Pummel> gnah, I hate mailing lists/forums :)
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[22:24:27] <alanc> well, when you're asking questions of people who are mostly in timezones where it's sleeping time now (most of Sun's localization gurus are in Europe & Asia)
[22:24:54] <moazamraja> re
[22:24:56] <moazamraja> ack
[22:24:57] <moazamraja> oops
[22:26:00] <Pummel> alanc: I'm in europe too, it's 22:27 here (germany that is)
[22:26:24] * Pummel continues googling
[22:27:01] <CosmicDJ> maybe you should express your problem instead of asking how to do a pie-in-the-sky solution
[22:27:01] <alanc> Sun's localization people are mostly in Prague now - used to be some in Dublin too, but I think they're gone now
[22:27:15] <Pummel> or is there a way to forcibly reinstall a package even though there aren't any updates (IPS)?
[22:27:28] <alanc> (the European ones that is - Asian localizations are split between Beijing & Tokyo)
[22:27:55] <throwt>      localeadm - query and configure locales
[22:28:19] <kleppari> are you guys experiencing a.. 'choppy' multitasking experience?
[22:28:55] <throwt> kleppari: yeah.  even with firefox at -20 niceness, pandora skips when i do stuff
[22:29:03] <throwt> maybe its a sound driver buffer issue though
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[22:29:37] <kleppari> I'm getting serious hanging of gnome applications
[22:29:47] <throwt> with the livecd?
[22:29:49] <kleppari> if I type too fast, programs hang
[22:30:45] <CosmicDJ> and I thought they managed the stalling typewriter problem with those braindead keyboard layouts ;)
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[22:32:48] <kleppari> throwt: nope
[22:33:03] <kleppari> installed on a zfs mirror
[22:33:11] <throwt> compression?
[22:33:12] <jbit> you need that keyboard with oled screen on each key, every few minutes it randomly switches key position
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[22:35:45] <kleppari> throwt: nope
[22:35:47] <CosmicDJ> frogpad 4tw
[22:35:51] <CosmicDJ> gn8
[22:36:10] <zimmermanc> so i need to run /opt/jdsbld/bin/env.sh  every time I want to use this build environment?
[22:37:24] <throwt> how much ram, kleppari /
[22:37:27] <kleppari> 2G
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[22:39:15] <sfuentes> is zfs now the default filesystem on solaris?
[22:39:25] <kleppari> I have a truss output of gnome-terminal if you'd like to take a look
[22:39:34] <alanc> it's only default on opensolaris - on Solaris it's still an option
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[22:39:59] <sfuentes> i see
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[22:40:32] <sfuentes> alanc: what's the reason for keeping ufs default?
[22:41:06] <alanc> for Solaris 10, because ZFS root support just arrived in Solaris 10 10/08
[22:41:11] <consanguinity> not every customer wants to abandon something that's worked for 25 years right after something new appears
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[22:41:31] <alanc> for Solaris Nevada, because no one is going to update the old installer, since they're busy working on the new one for OpenSolaris
[22:41:42] <kleppari> http://paste.lisp.org/display/70676
[22:41:51] <kleppari> the first output is of gnome-terminal while typing fast
[22:41:52] <sfuentes> consanguinity: well i think we should abandon telnetd completely
[22:41:56] <kleppari> the second when typing slowly
[22:42:06] <consanguinity> ssh has been around.. 15 years?
[22:42:13] <consanguinity> ZFS root has been around since earlier this month
[22:42:14] <alanc> it will probably become default in the future version of Solaris based on IPS & the Caiman installer
[22:42:16] <kleppari> just about when the first (sleeping...) line appears, things start hanging
[22:43:05] <sfuentes> consanguinity: but we shouldn't wait 15 years :)
[22:43:19] <kleppari> does the (sleeping..) mean that the process was switched out?
[22:43:20] <consanguinity> '15 years' and '2 weeks' are not the only options
[22:43:25] <sfuentes> alanc: sounds reasonable
[22:44:06] <Asako> solaris 11 maybe
[22:44:33] <alanc> actually, given that IPS & beadm depend on ZFS snapshots and clones, I could probably even say it's almost certain ZFS will be default then, unless a lot of redesign of those happens first
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[22:45:39] <alanc> though UFS will probably remain an option for 15-20 years or so (I don't remember if it has 32-bit limited timestamps and will naturally EOL in 2038 or not)
[22:45:48] <throwt> kleppari: i looked at that, but i cant imageine why its going to sleep
[22:45:48] <alanc> an option for data, not system, disks
[22:45:51] <kleppari> err, second sleeping line, sorry.  Why should gnome-terminal sleep when it's accepting input?
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[22:46:19] <kleppari> throwt: not only is it gnome-terminal, but ..all?  gnome programs
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[22:46:57] <throwt> kleppari: maybe its some bug...  are these sun provided packages?
[22:46:59] <kleppari> I can even reproduce it by opening the keyboard configuration tool, turning up the key repeat speed and holding down a key
[22:47:09] <kleppari> then I get serious hanging
[22:47:16] <kleppari> yep, all of them
[22:47:29] <kleppari> the only thing I've installed nonstandard is sbcl in ~/local
[22:47:36] <kleppari> hm, and an audio driver
[22:47:36] <W0rmDr1nk> hi, where can i find a reference for kstat, especially for kstat_data_lookup
[22:47:53] <W0rmDr1nk> see i have here a kstat_lookup(ksc, "unix", -1, "system_misc");
[22:48:00] <W0rmDr1nk> and then kstat_data_lookup(ks, "lbolt");
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[22:48:12] <W0rmDr1nk> but im unsure of what this lbolt is
[22:48:16] <kleppari> but I don't see how that could be causing it, since this does not happen in xterm or emacs
[22:48:18] <W0rmDr1nk> where can i get info on it ?
[22:48:27] <kleppari> at least now on accepting input
[22:48:33] <kleppari> s/now/not/
[22:49:59] <kleppari> the box also has 4 cores and all of them sitting idle
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[22:52:20] <e^ipi> anyone happen to know the guy working on postgres for solaris?
[22:52:28] <e^ipi> his name anyways
[22:52:35] <turtle> dick frost
[22:52:41] <e^ipi> thx
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[22:54:01] <Asako> anybody messed with failover on iscsi shares?
[22:54:16] <c00p> does anyone know where the solaris smb service logs - I can not get my domain authentication to work to allow me to see shares
[22:54:22] <Asako> linux doesn't like when I move the backend IP, hehe
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[22:57:27] <wokolad> Hello all.It's ok with my sound card, but not with a midi interface in it.I have latest OSS drivers, so I need to update sound driver?
[22:57:37] <johannes> I've installed snv_101a, but my wireless usb mouse isn't detected, while the keyboard on the same thing works, that's the dmesg output: http://pastebin.com/m645cd943 Any ideas?
[22:58:41] <CIA-34> Jerry Gilliam <Jerry.Gilliam at Sun dot COM>: 6734066 Booting wanboot from the media fails
[22:58:41] <CIA-34> Satish Murugesan <satish.murugesan at Sun dot COM>: 6466160 rpc.nisd can hang for 3-4 minutes attempting NIS+ callback if connection to client silently fails
[22:59:07] <Asako> linux is dumb
[22:59:27] <e^ipi> you've just now realized this?
[22:59:44] <Asako> I restart iscsi and it kills all my volume groups
[22:59:55] <Asako> Nov 18 17:01:17 xentest9 kernel: scsi 10:0:0:0: rejecting I/O to dead device
[23:00:00] * Pummel is coming from a linux background and has lots of pebcak moments with solaris :)
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[23:00:29] <Asako> I would just use solaris if my VMs could network properly
[23:00:39] <johannes> my linux installation at least works with my mouse :-)
[23:00:44] <Asako> how does solaris handle things when an iscsi target IP moves?
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[23:02:47] <e^ipi> johannes: solaris works fine with any USB mouse
[23:02:58] <johannes> e^ipi: not with mine
[23:03:04] <e^ipi> is it bluetooth?
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[23:03:09] <johannes> e^ipi: see pastebin link i sent before
[23:03:12] <johannes> e^ipi: nope
[23:03:36] <Asako> guess I could try it and see
[23:04:04] <Triskelios> johannes: what does cfgadm -v show?
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[23:05:04] <Asako> and the whole point of HA-ZFS is failover, so I dunno
[23:05:21] <johannes> Triskelios: http://pastebin.com/m16c8431b
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[23:07:07] <kleppari> NOTICE: IRQ16 is being shared by drivers with different interrupt levels. -- Is this something to be worried about?
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[23:08:52] <e^ipi> johannes: i think your mouse isn't speaking regular USB HID
[23:09:04] <johannes> the second thing I'd have to fix before using OpenSolaris for work would be find out why bazaar doesn't work ($ bzr diff  "bzr: ERROR: [Errno 14] Bad address")
[23:09:29] <johannes> e^ipi: hm, but it works with other operating systems on different boxes ... it'S unfortunately the only mouse i have around here ...
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[23:11:44] <e^ipi> yeah, other operating systems have other drivers
[23:11:50] <e^ipi> does in work with openbsd?
[23:12:20] <johannes> is there a livecd of that where i might try without installing it to disk?
[23:12:33] <johannes> no motivation to do repartitioning :-)
[23:12:42] <e^ipi> olivebsd
[23:12:48] <e^ipi> it's the openbsd livecd
[23:12:51] <Triskelios> johannes: oddly, your keyboard also isn't visible on cfgadm... although it's clearly working from the kernel message
[23:12:52] <e^ipi> may or may not still exist
[23:13:47] <johannes> Triskelios: I'm typing on it right now so I know it works :-) (if there are mistakes in the spelling that's not the keyboard's fault...)
[23:14:16] <consanguinity> is there a reason not to increase tcp_conn_req_max_q / tcp_conn_req_max_q0 a fair bit higher than the defaults, like 1024 / 4096?
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[23:16:01] <johannes> it's so annoying, I want to use DTrace and I have to do work on Solaris over the next weeks and working only in VMs and remote servers is annoying ... but a mouse can be sooo usefull, too :-(
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[23:18:02] <danboid> I've just tried for the third time to get OS rc1b to install to a second partition of a drive but grub never gets installed correctly. Is there a guide on how to fix grub booting off the OS CD or how to successfully install onto a partition other than #1?
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[23:20:21] <danboid> I wonder if Solaris 10 has this prob too? Does Sol 10 use IPS now?
[23:20:33] <Triskelios> danboid: installgrub /boot/grub/stage1 /boot/grub/stage2 <disk>s0... (add -m if you want to install in the MBR)
[23:20:45] <Triskelios> S10 will never use IPS
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[23:22:32] <Triskelios> I have 2008.11 installed to the second partition on an old laptop... (using the older b95 prerelease)
[23:23:01] <Triskelios> johannes: bzr from SFEbzr works here
[23:23:20] <danboid> Triskelios: Thanks Triskelios! I'll have to try that. I take it that I'd type 'installgrub /boot/grub/stage1 /boot/grub/stage2' literally then follow that up with the value I get for the target drive when I do a 'iostat -En' right?
[23:23:46] <danboid> and use slice 0?
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[23:24:18] <Triskelios> danboid: right. may have to add /a to the paths if this is from the installer or failsafe boot
[23:25:06] <danboid> Add /a?
[23:25:27] <danboid> Like installgrub /boot/grub/stage1/a /boot/grub/stage2/a ?
[23:25:30] <danboid> nah
[23:25:46] <johannes> Triskelios: SFE? What's the authority URL? I tried isntallign from sources myself ...
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[23:26:08] <Triskelios> johannes: SFE is only a repository of spec files for pkgbuild right now
[23:26:13] <danboid> Do you a trailing / ?
[23:26:15] <johannes> Triskelios: bzr clone works ... but any diff or commiit or similar gives the Bad address errer
[23:26:21] <johannes> error
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[23:26:45] <Triskelios> danboid: prefix /a (or wherever root is mounted)
[23:28:00] <zimmermanc> argh, all this work to get pkgbuild working and the spec file won't build
[23:28:02] <zimmermanc> lol
[23:28:10] * zimmermanc hits himself in the face
[23:28:16] <danboid> Triskelios: Aha! Good point! I don't know how to mount my sol partition yet! :)
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[23:29:04] <danboid> Triskelios: So I boot OS1b CD, boot into text mode, log in as jack, su, thenm I need to mount my sol partition
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[23:29:34] <danboid> I've never mounted a ZFS drive
[23:29:53] <e^ipi> that's because you don't mount zfs drives
[23:30:00] <johannes> Triskelios: hm, found that SFEbzr.spec file and it does the same thing i did manually, too ...
[23:30:12] <e^ipi> zfs mounts the volumes automatically based on the mountpoint property
[23:30:23] <e^ipi> fuzzied up by the fact that you can set them as legacy mounts
[23:30:31] <Triskelios> danboid: zpool import -R /a rpool
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[23:31:36] <danboid> Triskelios: Will that mount my / ? Is that the only command I need to run before I run installgrub?
[23:31:39] <johannes> anyways no subject I want to invest too much time till I can properly make use of the system
[23:33:33] <e^ipi> a USB mouse is $5
[23:34:43] <johannes> e^ipi: yes - but my hand is used to that one :-)
[23:35:06] <Triskelios> danboid: hm, the filesystems might be marked as legacy actually, so maybe import rpool without -R /a first, then mount -F zfs rpool/ROOT/opensolaris /a
[23:37:00] <danboid> Triskelios: THanks! I'll have to get back to you on that
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[23:39:28] <zimmermanc> hrmm, [os.o] Error 2  acomp failed for os.c
[23:39:32] <zimmermanc> FAIL
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[23:46:22] <johannes> Triskelios: ah, the bzr issue seems to be that it can't find _readdir_pyx.pyx
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[23:46:49] <Triskelios> johannes: I don't have that file
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[23:47:44] <johannes> truss tells me it reads bzrlib/osutils.py and then looks for the other file it tons of locations and then terminates
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[23:49:42] <johannes> it even prints a trackback which goes ... somewhere
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[23:50:19] <Triskelios> johannes: whoa, hold on... I've been running bzr on the source tree of bzr itself, so that file is present in the tree and it did pick that up from the tree (wtf?)...
[23:50:25] <dustman> anyone tried using core sxce install plus pkgsrc for Xorg and extra software?
[23:50:35] <Triskelios> johannes: testing with a new repository
[23:50:59] <Algyz> Hi, some weeks ago I've opensolaris live cd, tried it, but it was using ~100% of ram and it was almost impossible to do anything within an hour, why could it be?
[23:51:13] <bda> How much RAM does your system have?
[23:51:18] <dustman> Algyz: it uses zfs
[23:51:23] <zimmermanc> weird, so SunStudio IS neatbeans ? lol i'm confused
[23:51:29] <dustman> so almost all of ram will be used
[23:51:35] <consanguinity> zimmermanc: the studio IDE is netbeans
[23:51:42] <Algyz> But it was sooo slow :(
[23:51:45] <Triskelios> zimmermanc: the IDE in Studio is netbeans. Studio is also a compiler set and other stuff
[23:51:48] <consanguinity> zimmermanc: it also includes C, C++ and FORTRAN compilers, some performance profiling stuff, etc
[23:52:16] <consanguinity> i think i preferred the studio ide when it was xemacs ;)
[23:52:17] <zimmermanc> ah,
[23:52:29] <dustman> Algyz: what do you expect from livecd with whole damn gnome and zfs?
[23:52:36] <zimmermanc> going to try netbeans + py here
[23:52:44] <Triskelios> Algyz: something may also have filled up the ramdisks the live CD creates...
[23:53:16] <Algyz> Other live cd's are much faster
[23:54:00] <throwt> i agree
[23:54:12] <Triskelios> dustman: joyent uses some old SX installs with pkgsrc for a lot of things, not sure if I'd recommend that setup though
[23:54:29] <dustman> Triskelios: why?
[23:54:32] <bda> I use pkgsrc on Solaris 10.
[23:54:38] <bda> But not for X stuff.
[23:54:40] <zimmermanc> i've seen livecd's faster than the installed version Algyz  :)
[23:54:41] <throwt> Algyz: bda asked how much ram do you have.  (open)solaris needs 512mb to boot, 1gb to work, 2gb to make sense
[23:54:43] <Triskelios> dustman: (you certainly want X from the FOX project, not pkgsrc)
[23:54:58] <Algyz> 512mb
[23:54:59] <bda> (in production, for the last ~two years)
[23:55:42] <throwt> Algyz: that's why.  i still think theres some tuning that needs to go on for non-big iron systems in the vm...  i dont know how to describe it, but its a balance between anonymous ram and cachces
[23:56:03] <Algyz> okay :)
[23:56:43] <alanc> heh, was reading something from the kernel VM team recently about how it needed tuning for modern computers instead of the 16-32mb computers it was designed for
[23:56:54] <dustman> I'm thinking of changing  this osol system for something more sensible
[23:57:16] <alanc> ZFS on the other hand believes all computers should have enough RAM to make good use of 64-bit addressing...
[23:57:38] <johannes> Triskelios: hm, has to be another issue, found the file, copied to a place where python looks for it it is found but gives still an error ...
[23:58:32] <dustman> bda: do you use gcc optimization cflags?
[23:58:47] <throwt> i just never had good luck, ufs or zfs, with lots of memory and cache usage.  like copying files when having 1GB ram and using X.  would cause X 99% slowdown until copy finished.  even with direct_io with ufs
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[23:59:03] <consanguinity> if it happens with directio, it's nothing to do with cache
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[23:59:26] <throwt> linux or freebsd on the other hand, wouldnt push so hard on the anonymous memory for disk cache (or whatever it actually is)





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