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[00:01:04] <sickness> scrash08: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/blogs/  <- iirc I've originally found it there, I just don't remember the date...
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[00:04:27] <purserj> 2/win 6
[00:04:30] <purserj> sigh
[00:06:19] <TomJ> scrash08: you may find X forwarding is broken completely,  i.e. you do ssh -X some_solaris_host ;  then echo $DISPLAY and it is not set
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[00:06:33] <TomJ> if so, you need to bind ipv6 in some_solaris_host
[00:06:50] <TomJ> with e.g.  ifconfig lo0 inet6 plumb up
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[00:09:43] <scrash08> sickness  Thanks.  Good enuf ...
[00:09:44] <scrash08> TomJ:  "completely broken" ... on the Solaris end?
[00:09:59] <TomJ> well, not completely broken, it can be fixed as above
[00:10:02] <TomJ> but completely broken out of the box
[00:10:06] <TomJ> and yes, in the Solaris sshd
[00:10:13] <TomJ> although I believe other implementations also have it, e.g. OSX I heard
[00:11:39] <sickness> scrash08: http://cmynhier.blogspot.com/2008/01/installing-opensolaris-preview-remotely.html
[00:11:40] <scrash08> TomJ: re, OSX <grumble> yes, out of the box </grumble>, tho, I run my own build
[00:11:40] <scrash08> Sanity check -- I've read no opensolaris text_installer in 2008.05, and I've found nothing abt one in 2008.11.
[00:11:40] <scrash08> *IS* there one?
[00:11:50] <scrash08> sickness: Great, thx.
[00:11:54] <sickness> scrash08: I don't know if that's the same link, but seems an older one on the same argument :P
[00:11:57] <sickness> yw
[00:13:09] <scrash08> sickness: (yuck!  i'm just sayin' ...)
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[00:15:06] <wereHamster> could someone please tell me which package provides libshell.so.1?
[00:16:17] <TomJ> it will be a ksh package
[00:16:27] <TomJ> grep libshell.so.1 /var/sadm/install/contents  # if you're on SXCE
[00:16:34] <TomJ> dont know how one would do that in opensolaris
[00:16:39] <TomJ> (maybe the same though, try it)
[00:17:24] <wereHamster> the thing is, that lib's not on my system, and apparently some cory components need it
[00:17:58] <TomJ> apparently I dont have it on SXCE either
[00:18:08] <sp|ck> anyone know where some good fiber channel storage administration documentation is located?
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[00:18:47] <TomJ> indeed I dont have any mention of ksh in /var/sadm/install/contents
[00:19:00] <TomJ> that's borked.
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[00:19:51] <TomJ> oh, it woudl appaer my /var/sadm/install/contents has no reference to any standard package
[00:20:02] <TomJ> it only has other stuff like SUNWSpro and Virtualox
[00:20:23] <TomJ> either SXCE has some new repostiory I dont know about , or my SXCE install is very broken.
[00:25:47] <wereHamster> where do I configure the ld search patch? apparently when I uninstalled some of the desktop packages they removed /usr/lib/amd64 from the ld search path
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[00:26:14] <wereHamster> seems like opensolaris can't live without gnome. Pretty stupid if you ask me
[00:26:29] <throwt> crle
[00:27:17] <wereHamster> ah great. Default configuration file not found (/var/ld/ld.config)
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[00:28:15] <wereHamster> can somebody please pastey the contents of that file?
[00:29:06] <throwt> i dont have one
[00:29:26] <throwt> it means the default haven't been changed
[00:31:17] <e^ipi> wereHamster: what are you trying to do, exactly?
[00:32:55] <wereHamster> e^ipi: I uninstaled gnome packages and a few other useless ones. Then when I rebooted I saw this on the console: http://pastey.net/102009
[00:33:08] <wereHamster> and now I can't boot anymore, it just hangs at some point
[00:33:21] <e^ipi> so why are you dicking around with linker config?
[00:33:24] <e^ipi> you removed libast
[00:33:27] <e^ipi> don't do that.
[00:33:50] <TomJ> e^ipi: does SXCE still use /var/sadm/install/contents for base packages?
[00:33:54] <wereHamster> what's libast and what's for?
[00:34:01] <kleppari> has anyone seen something like this? http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=82800
[00:34:07] <e^ipi> wereHamster: at&t shell tools IIRC
[00:34:09] <TomJ> wereHamster: it likely includes libshell.so.1 for one thing
[00:34:24] <e^ipi> stuff that makes ksh93 not break & die
[00:34:37] <wereHamster> libshell _is_ still on the system, just not in the ld search path anymore
[00:34:53] <e^ipi> wereHamster: put it back where it's supposed to be
[00:34:59] <e^ipi> & did you upgrade something?
[00:35:02] <wereHamster> my guess is that some gnome uninstall script removed the relevant paths from ld.config
[00:35:07] <wereHamster> no, just uninstalled
[00:35:08] <e^ipi> your guess is wrong
[00:35:19] <e^ipi> uninstalled, and then reinstalled?
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[00:35:41] <wereHamster> where is it supposed to be? It's currently in /usr/lib/amd64
[00:35:44] <e^ipi> run file across it
[00:35:57] <wereHamster> and then?
[00:36:07] <e^ipi> and then you'll see that the ISA doesn't match up
[00:36:21] <wereHamster> what's ISA?
[00:36:27] <e^ipi> instruction set architecture
[00:36:45] <e^ipi> i'm about 90% certain that your problem is one is 32 bits, the other is 64 bits
[00:36:52] <e^ipi> you cannot link them together, ever.
[00:37:43] <wereHamster> if you looked at the pastey, you'd see that the system is trying to execute /usr/bin/amd64/ksh93, which is a 64bit app and needs to link against 64bit libs
[00:38:11] <e^ipi> and if you'll look at the output of file(1), i'm fairly certain that it's not trying to do tht
[00:38:12] <e^ipi> *that
[00:39:11] <wereHamster> /usr/lib/libshell.so and /usr/bin/ksh93 are 32bit, /usr/lib/amd64/libshell.so and /usr/bin/amd64/ksh93 are 64bit
[00:40:17] <clergyman> A bit off topic perhaps, but can anyone tell me if there's a channel where one could ask autoconf/automake questions ?
[00:40:19] <e^ipi> you know this from file(1), or you know this from the path
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[00:40:26] <wereHamster> from file
[00:40:53] <clergyman> If I pass CXX=/usr/bin/suncc to a configure script, it'll still put gcc in the Makefile, not sure how to check for those variables
[00:41:04] <nachox> isnt ksh93 a link to isaexec anyway?
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[00:41:40] <e^ipi> wereHamster: on my system libshell lives in /usr/bin/64
[00:41:45] <e^ipi> not am64
[00:42:04] <e^ipi> nm, it's a symlink anyways
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[00:45:35] <e^ipi> wereHamster: meh, you can always elfedit(1) it
[00:45:50] <e^ipi> man page has an example of how to add library search paths
[00:45:59] <e^ipi> ( you could also not break your machine in the first place )
[00:46:05] <wereHamster> well, right now it's easier to just reinstall the system
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[00:46:20] <sickness> is there a way to slow cpu mhz on core2duo? (like powernowadm on amd64?)
[00:46:32] <wereHamster> if you consider uninstalling gnome breaking the system, well then yes, I broke it
[00:46:32] <nachox> yes
[00:46:47] <sickness> I keep reading that it's supported, but what's the binary to actually do that?
[00:47:09] <nachox> the kernel actually manages that dynamically
[00:47:53] <proberts> anyone here with Sun Cluster experience?
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[00:48:18] <sickness> nachox: ok but with powernowadm I get a nice report with  State    MHz   Watts   Volts
[00:48:27] <nachox> powertop will tell you the frequency the processor is using
[00:48:30] <sickness> nachox: isn't there a way to get that with an intel cpu?
[00:48:31] <sickness> oh
[00:48:34] <sickness> tnx!
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[00:50:40] <IvanR_> wereHamster: What gnome uninstall script did you use?  It shouldn't have gone anywhere near those libs.
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[00:51:05] <wereHamster> IvanR_: ls /var/sadm/pkg/ | grep gnome
[00:53:27] <IvanR_> But libast and libshell are in SUNWcsl, the Core Shared Libs package
[00:53:56] <wereHamster> again, the libraries are still installed, nobody removed those.
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[00:56:08] <scrash08> I understand that solaris' "svccfg" mods data in the svc config repo.  Can I make changes manually? I.e., what file can I text-edit to 'manually' change:
[00:56:09] <scrash08> svccfg -s x11-server setprop options/tcp_listen = true ?
[00:56:22] <wereHamster> os200811 has it in both
[00:56:29] <wereHamster> err. sorry about that
[00:56:46] <e^ipi> kleppari: re: your gnome thing. yes. but only when i'm running gnome apps in !gnome
[00:56:53] <e^ipi> i know of no solution.
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[00:57:16] <e^ipi> scrash08: it's not a text file.
[00:57:24] <e^ipi> scrash08: it's a sqlite database
[00:57:33] <e^ipi> you would use svccfg to edit it
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[00:58:26] <bda> Alternatively you could edit the manifest and reimport it.. but that's probably not what you want to do.
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[00:59:22] <e^ipi> that's essentially the same thing
[01:00:03] <IvanR_> wereHamster: Did the symlink of /usr/lib/64 -> amd64 get removed?
[01:00:21] <wereHamster> don't know anymore, I'm already reinstalling
[01:00:54] <scrash08> e^ipi: bda I'd like to change the settings on a mounted-in-xen LiveCD instance ... and have the changes persist.  I can apparently make the changes in session -- but they don't persist.  So, i gather I have to change on the img itself.  But to do that, I only have a mounted filesystem( from linux, atm) -- i.e., no svccfg :-/
[01:01:17] <e^ipi> scrash08: no dice then
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[01:01:47] <TomJ> you could run svccfg on the in-memory version, analyse what file changed, save that file and then update the CD with it
[01:01:49] <scrash08> e^ipi  rats
[01:01:50] <scrash08> <grumble> me wonders why on earth there's no text installer ... </grumble>
[01:01:57] <e^ipi> because it's a desktop distro
[01:02:04] <TomJ> use SXCE scrash08
[01:02:12] <e^ipi> +1
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[01:02:32] <TomJ> OpenSolaris is a toy OS at the stage, SXCE is the beta for a production OS,  Solaris 10 being that production OS
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[01:02:51] <TomJ> (not sure how much that will change with 2008.11)
[01:02:58] <bda> Hardly a "toy" anymore (2008.11).
[01:03:00] <clergyman> Which package contains the manpages for suncc on 2008.11 ?
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[01:03:30] <clergyman> The c functions and those pages
[01:03:42] <TomJ> is suncc bundled with 2008.11 ?
[01:03:50] <clergyman> I installed it via pkg
[01:04:09] <scrash08> e^ipi: "cuz it's a desktop distro" ...well, so's opensuse that i have here ... and it does just fine via text install, as does FreeBSD ...  but your point's taken.
[01:04:10] <scrash08> TomJ is SXCE known to run in a DomU on a Linux Dom0?  And, does it have the ZFS Web ADministration capability that (supposedly) Opensolaris does?
[01:04:25] <e^ipi> yes
[01:05:10] <clergyman> I've written some code on Linux, but apparently some functions hide in other headers on Solaris.. so I'm getting a lot of "implicit function declaration" warnings
[01:05:14] <e^ipi> opensolaris is a subset of SXCE, plus IPS, plus the new installer
[01:05:17] <clergyman> I need to know which headers they're in on solaris
[01:06:39] <scrash08> e^ipi: subset?  ah, I'd understood that they were different critters, separated by a common hate-the-ither-guys flamewar ;-)
[01:07:17] <e^ipi> we don't hate the other guys
[01:07:32] <clergyman> Strange.. the online manuals say the sys/types.h and signal.h.. but I've got those included already..
[01:07:34] <e^ipi> i quite like open and free BSD
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[01:08:39] <scrash08> e^ipi: Heh ...
[01:08:58] <e^ipi> and i don't hate linux or windows, i just think that they're inferior OS's
[01:11:08] <scrash08> And, just to make sure, SXCE has a text/console-only install capability?
[01:11:36] <e^ipi> yes
[01:12:21] <scrash08> e^ipi: Great, thx. DL'ing.  "All I want for x-mas is a ZFS-capable, Web-administered, NAS-in-a-Linux-DomU ... ... ..."
[01:14:29] <e^ipi> probably be faster if you virtualized linux and just set up gdm to remote connect to that but whatever
[01:14:39] <e^ipi> ( added bonus you could install linux on ZFS that way and get all the checksummy goodness )
[01:15:56] <scrash08> e^ipi' Xen lacks some capabilities I need in Dom0 -- namely pci passthrough.  That'll change, eventually ... but for now, not-starter.
[01:16:25] <e^ipi> fair enough
[01:16:36] <norman> but then you also need a xserver for gdm on the sxce machine, right?
[01:16:53] <e^ipi> norman, that's what i was getting at, yes
[01:17:20] <e^ipi> dtlogin/gdm/etc logging you in to the "remote" ( xen domu ) machine automatically
[01:17:30] <scrash08> Where can one directly DL SXCE using wget or somesuch?  All I've found is the register-with-Sun-first web page ...
[01:17:30] <scrash08> norman  nope.  iiuc, ZFS has web-admin -- that's all the GUI i need.
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[01:18:16] <scrash08> and installer *is* available as text-installer @ console, so no need for gdm
[01:18:17] <e^ipi> it's also got a retarded easy CLI
[01:18:49] <scrash08> e^ipi: works too ... if/once I can actually get the silly thing installed ;-)
[01:19:13] <e^ipi> scrash08, http://wikis.sun.com/pages/viewpage.action?pageId=28448383
[01:19:15] <e^ipi> wget workaround
[01:19:39] <scrash08> e^ipi: Miller time!
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[01:20:18] <scrash08> argh ... still have to regsiter .. hrrmph.
[01:20:36] <e^ipi> yes, this is so that Sun continues to be allowed to do business in the united states
[01:20:57] <e^ipi> they need to make sure you're neither cuban, syrian, or iranian before they'll give you strong crypto
[01:21:24] <e^ipi> sux, but if you don't like it petition your congressman to get it changed
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[01:22:25] <scrash08> e^ipi: Opensolaris is directly dl'able ... as are a g'zillion other distros.  Sigh.
[01:22:46] <e^ipi> yes, opensolaris doesn't include the stuff that's not redistributable
[01:22:58] <e^ipi> sun is a large target.
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[01:23:39] <scrash08> Security through obscurity.  "We'll make sure you'll never have enough patience to DL our product ..."
[01:23:46] <scrash08> pfffft.
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[01:24:07] <e^ipi> nobody claimed it was for security
[01:24:14] <e^ipi> just for legal obligation
[01:24:34] <e^ipi> once again, if you don't like it petition your congressman
[01:25:43] <consanguinity> which crypto is in SXCE that's not in 2008.05?
[01:26:11] <e^ipi> damned if i know, this is just how it's been explained to me by people who do
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[01:36:13] <scrash08> well, ok then . thanks.
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[01:39:24] <nachox> e^ipi, the strong crypto thing is a best effort thing right? they could still download it from other places
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[01:46:01] <TomJ> They also take some pains to ensure there is nowhere else to download it from
[01:46:04] <TomJ> cease&desist letters, etc
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[01:46:54] <e^ipi> nachox, i don't think anyone at sun actually cares so long as the legal obligation is taken care of
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[02:31:27] <nachox> night
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[04:56:33] <jklyekai> hello ,why my vmware box shows the time always is 12/28/1986 after reboot .opensolaris 99 and 101a .is't a bug?
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[05:10:47] <comay> jklyekai, there appears to be a bug with vmware and the clock it presents opensolaris
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[05:12:44] <Doc> lets do the time warp again!
[05:13:35] <jbk> heh
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[05:20:34] <jklyekai> I want to set IPS in the distro-const.slim_cd.xml to another IPS pkg.unix-center.net .BUT  when download files .it shows " pkg maxmum network retries failed" .dO i need to set some other paraments?
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[06:00:55] <elektronkind> I don't know what was fixed, but for some reason my s10 system with kjp 137138-09 applied is freakin screaming fast
[06:01:00] <elektronkind> not that it was slow before
[06:01:05] <elektronkind> but soemthing's differnet/better
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[06:10:03] <c00p> elektronkind: great work sun
[06:10:03] <c00p> lol
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[06:11:11] <c00p> has anyone here had problems with getting domain authentication working with smb shared ZFS filesystems ?
[06:16:09] <galen> how does solaris handle disk writes and ram buffering?
[06:16:53] <jbk> very well usually
[06:17:13] <galen> i had mentioned my issues with write pausing and one person suggested it could have something to do with the buffer handling
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[06:17:38] <galen> is there documentation anywhere?
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[06:55:31] <ardchoille> Hi, I recently saw a screenshot of the CDE desktop and wondered if that is available in open solaris
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[06:56:27] <ardchoille> I'm talking about that panel at the bottom of this screenshot: http://xwinman.org/screenshots/cde-jzaremski.jpg
[06:56:48] <trygvis> yeah, you can select CDE on the login screen
[06:56:56] <gerard13> not on opensolaris!
[06:57:17] <ardchoille> oh, not in opensolaris?
[06:57:29] <trygvis> eh, sure you can
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[06:57:48] <ardchoille> I'll download it and give it a try then :)
[06:58:00] <trygvis> it is in process of being removed though
[06:58:11] <gerard13> os2008.05 doesn't contain Motif
[06:58:17] <ardchoille> Oh, that's too bad, I find it quite nice on my eyes
[06:58:36] <trygvis> right, it might not be in os2008.05, but it is in sxce
[06:58:43] <CIA-34> Siyamaladevi Santhana Krishnan <Siyamaladevi.Krishnan at Sun dot COM>: 6572171 automount via NFSv4 could return "permission denied" on specific condition.
[06:59:09] <gerard13> Belenix contains XFCE
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[07:20:45] <lloy0076> I have Solaris SXCE 101 installed and sound works in as much as I can get the buttons to make sound, the startup sound to work etc etc....
[07:20:54] <lloy0076> ...however flash just has not sound.
[07:20:55] <lloy0076> At all.
[07:21:47] <lloy0076> Also I can't test the sounds and it doesn't seem to want to use ESD and I have no idea if ESD is running anyway or where its startup settings are hidden in this (yet again changed) rendering of the desktop....
[07:23:48] <gerard13> esd isn't bundled with sxce
[07:25:06] <lloy0076> gerard13: Hmmm. Ok.
[07:25:26] <lloy0076> gerard13: I can't seem to find any obvious settings which would stop flash from using the sound system.
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[07:28:27] <gerard13> what driver are you using? hdaudio?
[07:28:54] <gerard13> i'm using audio810 and evrything is ok
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[07:48:53] <jklyekai> I want to set IPS in the distro-const.slim_cd.xml to another IPS pkg.unix-center.net .when download files .it shows " pkg maxmum network retries failed" .
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[07:54:07] <SUNWjoejaxx> Pummel: :P :D
[07:54:13] <Pummel> hey there
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[07:58:44] <CIA-34> George Wilson <George.Wilson at Sun dot COM>: 6542860 ASSERT: reason != VDEV_LABEL_REMOVE||vdev_inuse(vd, crtxg, reason, 0)
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[08:01:16] <lloy0076> What's that command one uses to find out what's on one's PCI bus?
[08:01:25] <trygvis> scanpci or lspci
[08:01:39] <trygvis> or prtconf
[08:01:49] <evocallaghan>  /usr/X11/bin is the path
[08:01:50] <lloy0076> Ah, that's the one I was thinking of
[08:02:30] <trygvis> prtdiag is also nice
[08:02:44] <evocallaghan> prtdiag is sweet
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[08:02:52] <trygvis> yeah
[08:03:07] <lloy0076> OOOO
[08:03:16] <evocallaghan> Hmm, I should add the output of that into kinfocenter
[08:03:41] <lloy0076> I have a "Intel(R) High Definition Audio Controller" but I don't know what module is running it.
[08:04:01] <evocallaghan> prob audiohd
[08:04:18] <evocallaghan> grep it from prtconf
[08:04:51] <lloy0076> I don't have prob on my PATH (and I'm su -).
[08:05:45] <lloy0076> I can see dev_path=/pci@0,0/pci1028,211@1b:sound,audio
[08:06:02] <lloy0076> ...but that looks more like a device path than a driver/modueto me.
[08:06:09] <evocallaghan> prob is not a command lol
[08:09:16] <lloy0076> I'm not entirely certain what I'm looking for.
[08:09:37] <gerard13> modinfo|grep audio
[08:09:57] <lloy0076> I google the compatible strings (that look like pci8086,2940) but keep on coming up with not sound related devices.
[08:10:07] <lloy0076> Ah
[08:10:14] <lloy0076> 178 fffffffff7c43690   8f18  83   1  audiohd (HD Audio Driver)
[08:10:14] <lloy0076> 183 fffffffff7eb8000   3988   -   1  audiosup (Audio Device Support %I%)
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[08:14:31] <madwizard> Coffee
[08:14:41] <evocallaghan> Yes please !
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[09:06:55] <mib_u4h5p3sg> hello.........
[09:07:01] <asyd> \_o<
[09:07:14] <Pummel> a duck?
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[09:07:42] <asyd> yup
[09:08:03] <Pummel> well I need one of these \_/]
[09:08:34] <Chipdancer> a coffee cup?
[09:08:56] <mib_u4h5p3sg> wat is this??
[09:09:12] <Chipdancer> #ascii-art-on-old-unix
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[09:09:53] <asyd> |_|}
[09:10:16] <Chipdancer> a mug?
[09:12:12] <evocallaghan> lol !
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[09:12:21] <evocallaghan> $
[09:12:26] <evocallaghan> A shell. :D
[09:13:28] <DTEIT> morning
[09:14:48] <asyd> :)
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[09:20:25] <asyd> totally OT, anyone knows a free web form editors? something like jotform, but free
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[09:31:26] <madwizard> Coffee
[09:31:29] <madwizard> We need it!
[09:32:10] * Chipdancer just made awesome latte with his Giotto Premium and home roasted beans!
[09:32:18] <xRaich[o]2x> trochej is not here.... so no coffee
[09:33:04] <xRaich[o]2x> <- discount instant coffee -_-
[09:33:22] <jbit> <- water (may contain coffee traces)
[09:33:33] <purserj> and no matter which channel I'm in, or network even, Chipdancer is there doing the coffee thing
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[09:33:52] <Chipdancer> purserj: AND jmcp too!
[09:33:52] <trochej> Now, better? :)
[09:33:55] <xRaich[o]2x> ahaaaaaaa :P
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[09:35:54] <e^ipi> Chipdancer: hey, nice
[09:36:18] <Chipdancer> e^ipi: 50%/50% Nicaraguan High Grown Bold and Indian Monsoon Malabar :)
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[09:36:38] <e^ipi> i gotta say, i'm not a fan of the monsooned coffee, but cool
[09:37:00] <Chipdancer> well, those two together are quite mellow
[09:37:04] <e^ipi> *nod*
[09:37:18] <Chipdancer> I put some Kenyan on top of it (20%) and it was kinda overpowering!
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[09:38:18] <e^ipi> my espresso these days is a 75/25 mix of panama boquette / yemeni matari
[09:38:45] <e^ipi> though i'm almost out of the yemen
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[09:39:14] <quasi> e^ipi: maragogype is good, but probably not for espresso
[09:39:47] <Chipdancer> e^ipi: you roast it yourself?
[09:40:13] <e^ipi> yeah
[09:40:42] <e^ipi> quasi: hmm... haven't had it
[09:40:55] <e^ipi> christ it's expensive!
[09:40:56] <Chipdancer> e^ipi: what do you roast with?
[09:40:56] <quasi> e^ipi: huge beans
[09:41:05] <e^ipi> 20$ for 2lbs
[09:41:07] <e^ipi> green
[09:41:13] <Chipdancer> quasi: AA? AAA?
[09:41:30] <quasi> Chipdancer: about twice the size of AA
[09:41:35] <Chipdancer> yeouch!
[09:41:36] <Chipdancer> AA
[09:41:43] <Chipdancer> AA's are pretty huge!
[09:42:10] <e^ipi> i'm gonna buy a pound anyways, hopefully i don't like it
[09:42:31] <quasi> ;)
[09:42:33] <Chipdancer> e^ipi: hehe
[09:42:37] <quasi> it's very mild
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[09:42:51] <Chipdancer> quasi: might be nice as an espresso, just not in milk
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[09:43:11] <quasi> you can literally drink gallons of it without busting your stomach
[09:44:06] <Chipdancer> great
[09:44:27] <Chipdancer> e^ipi: what do you use to roast your green?
[09:44:42] <e^ipi> behmor
[09:44:45] <quasi> makes good espresso as well, but not very traditional
[09:44:57] <e^ipi> i was using a popcorn popper but roasting 2oz at a time got tedious
[09:45:45] <Chipdancer> wow, a whole pound! that's huge!
[09:45:47] <e^ipi> mom & brothers got it for me last christmas
[09:45:59] <Chipdancer> I'm using a Hottop
[09:46:19] <quasi> just using the oven gives a reasonable result as well
[09:47:06] <Chipdancer> quasi: really?
[09:47:32] <e^ipi> i tried a fry pan but green on one side black on the other no matter how vigerous my stirring was also wasn't ideal
[09:47:52] <e^ipi> maybe i just have crappy cookware, i dunno
[09:48:35] <Chipdancer> I was going to do dog-bowl method, but bought a roaster instead ;)
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[09:48:53] <dissected> hello
[09:48:58] <quasi> works ok with a decent oven - not a fryingpan, just a metal sheet
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[09:49:23] <Chipdancer> quasi: what do you mean?  beans inside aluminium foil?
[09:49:34] <quasi> Chipdancer: no
[09:49:43] <dissected> can someone help me out with something real quick?
[09:49:47] <e^ipi> heh, it's coffee not a potato
[09:49:57] <Chipdancer> e^ipi: I've never oven roasted beans
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[09:50:33] <quasi> Chipdancer: I've got a metal pan - about 1/10 inch thick that goes with the oven - just dump the beans on that and roast till they pop
[09:51:20] <dissected> Is there a simple way to specify open solaris to run in 64 bit mode cause it's not detecting it apparently
[09:51:31] <e^ipi> dissected: yes it is.
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[09:52:22] <dissected> e^ipi, okay that may well be but it's not loading the 64 bit kernel
[09:52:42] <e^ipi> yes it is.
[09:53:07] <e^ipi> check isainfo
[09:53:16] <dissected> e^ipi, then what am I missing ...
[09:53:17] <e^ipi> if the machine can handle 64 bit, it is loading the correct kernel
[09:53:35] <dissected> wait it says both
[09:53:44] <Chipdancer> dissected: then you're fine
[09:54:05] <dissected> I realize this now
[09:54:18] <dissected> Thanks for steering me in the right direction ..
[09:54:45] <dissected> It's late :)
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[09:56:28] <dissected> e^. I did in fact check isainfo and it did say amd64, I didnt really see it until I turned around and looked again
[09:56:40] <dissected> IRC loads too fast..
[09:56:46] <Chipdancer> ooh, I have that nice caffeinated feeling now ;)
[09:57:08] <dissected> Chipdancer, bicardi & diet coke here
[09:57:13] <e^ipi> Chipdancer: i've gone through 4lbs in 2wk since getting my machine
[09:57:13] <dissected> Chipdancer, can you tell??
[09:57:30] <Chipdancer> e^ipi: new machine?  what did you get?
[09:57:39] <Chipdancer> dissected: ;)
[09:57:39] <e^ipi> vibiemme double boiler domobar
[09:57:50] <e^ipi> PID & the whole works... i'm quite satisfied
[09:57:51] <Chipdancer> ooh, db!
[09:58:04] <Chipdancer> what's the thermal stability of the group head like?
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[09:59:14] <e^ipi> it's e61
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[09:59:26] <e^ipi> a huge block of thermal mass that takes forever to heat up and forever to cool down
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[10:00:30] <e^ipi> that said i haven't temped the group by itself
[10:01:04] <Chipdancer> e^ipi: do iyou have a scace?
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[10:01:29] <e^ipi> my one complaint with the machine is that the 3 way switch doesn't work like it's supposed to
[10:01:59] <e^ipi> off, pump on, heaters on... the PID bypasses the mechanism so it starts heating when the pumps kick on
[10:02:00] <Chipdancer> oh, what's the 3-way switch?
[10:02:45] <e^ipi> designed to protect the heaters when the boilers are empty
[10:03:12] <e^ipi> in the regular domo it's apparently a great feature to have but it doesn't really have any effect on my machine
[10:03:15] <e^ipi> scace ?
[10:04:32] <Chipdancer> e^ipi: Greg Scace device
[10:05:00] <e^ipi> ahh
[10:05:03] <e^ipi> no, i don't have one
[10:05:03] <Chipdancer> http://www.espressoparts.com/product/EP-THERMOFILTER
[10:05:09] <Chipdancer> I don't either, but I want one
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[10:05:41] <Chipdancer> that said, I have a temp probe into the middle of my E-61 group
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[10:10:45] <e^ipi> i just have faith *shrug*
[10:10:51] <e^ipi> ( and a boiler PID )
[10:11:00] <Chipdancer> hahaa :D
[10:11:02] <Chipdancer> lucky bugger
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[10:22:21] <e^ipi> man, you aussies sure do love your espresso
[10:22:29] <e^ipi> i can rarely find a decent cup
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[10:23:00] <Chipdancer> e^ipi: you live in the middle of nowhere though!
[10:23:09] <e^ipi> true, but even when i go to cities
[10:23:37] <e^ipi> i happen to know a handful of decent places in vancouver, but that took a long time to find
[10:24:33] <e^ipi> even out in california it's a 20-30 min drive wherever I happen to be to a decent cafe
[10:24:47] <Chipdancer> e^ipi: well, vancouver.. yeah.. 49th parallel, elysium room.. they're there, aren't they?
[10:25:09] <e^ipi> yeah, those two, prado, bump&grind, JJ's half dozen locations, artigianos
[10:25:30] <e^ipi> vancouver's not a problem, it's the rest of the continent that is
[10:25:55] <Chipdancer> e^ipi: you're in .ca?
[10:26:00] <e^ipi> yeah
[10:26:03] <Chipdancer> I can never remember which side of the middle of nowhere you are ;)
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[10:26:36] <e^ipi> after this year it's no longer necessary for me to be in the middle of nowhere so i'm going home to vancouver
[10:26:45] <Chipdancer> oh, that's right.. you're in Alberta or something right?
[10:26:50] <e^ipi> nah, still BC
[10:26:54] <Chipdancer> oh, right ;)
[10:26:56] <e^ipi> but quite far in to the middle of it
[10:27:08] <Chipdancer> my Canuckistan geography isn't great ;)
[10:27:16] <e^ipi> heh, i'm actually looking at apartments based on which cafe they're within walking distance of
[10:27:36] <quasi> e^ipi: got to keep your priorities straight
[10:27:51] <Chipdancer> e^ipi: yeah, love yoru priorities
[10:27:53] <e^ipi> it's where i'll be spending a majority of my non-home time... important stuff
[10:28:31] <spiff> what is the preferred way of provisioning a zone? sysidcfg wont play ball.
[10:28:41] <Chipdancer> e^ipi: why are you now able to move?
[10:29:12] <e^ipi> Chipdancer: better pay + i worked out a deal with the department head for the last leg of school
[10:29:25] <Chipdancer> e^ipi: ahh.. excellent news
[10:29:40] <e^ipi> since all the 4th year classes are just random stuff anyways, the difference between them and guided independent study is pretty much nil
[10:29:50] <e^ipi> so i'll just do the independent study thing
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[10:31:16] <trygvis> is it possible to get zfs create to not mount the file system?
[10:31:32] <asyd> set mount=legacy?
[10:31:37] <Stric> zfs create -o mountpoint=none blah?
[10:32:07] <Stric> or canmount ..
[10:32:51] <trygvis> no, I want to specify a mountpoint. this is an FS for a zone
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[10:35:59] <e^ipi> trygvis: zoneadm should be creating it for you
[10:37:03] <trygvis> yeah, but I'd like to set the mountpoint
[10:37:11] <trygvis> but I guess I can do that after zoneadm
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[10:38:39] <e^ipi> that would break the zone
[10:38:41] <e^ipi> but sure
[10:38:45] <trygvis> eh?
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[10:38:59] <e^ipi> to not have a mountpoint at all?
[10:39:13] <e^ipi> or to change it without changing the properties of the zone
[10:39:27] <fraggeln> whats the point with no mountpoint? :)
[10:39:38] <trygvis> I can't control the mountpoint when I add it as a dataset to the zone
[10:39:49] <e^ipi> oh, not zoneroot
[10:39:57] <e^ipi> yeah, you can always just change it up later
[10:40:17] <e^ipi> or create it with mountpoint=none
[10:40:24] <e^ipi> and then change it inside the zone
[10:40:58] <trygvis> the file systems has to exist before installation
[10:41:25] <trygvis> but I guess if I set mountpoint=none when creating and just set mountpoint directly after it won't mount the FS
[10:41:45] <spiff> I really can't seem to get sysidcfg to get to configure my zone...anyone?
[10:41:55] <e^ipi> spiff: sys-unconfig ?
[10:41:59] <spiff> done.
[10:42:02] <spiff> no dice
[10:42:15] <trygvis> crap, it does automount it
[10:42:17] <trygvis> wtf
[10:42:41] <trygvis> perhaps if I create the zone first and *then* mount it
[10:42:46] <e^ipi> spiff: now reboot
[10:42:47] <trygvis> I wonder when the "zoned" property is set
[10:42:56] <Chipdancer> rpool/ROOT  mountpoint            legacy                 local
[10:42:58] <Chipdancer> that's how you do it
[10:43:05] <Chipdancer> I believe
[10:43:07] <e^ipi> trygvis: when you add the dataset
[10:43:11] <e^ipi> via zonecfg
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[10:43:19] <spiff> e^ipi: well yeah. And it still does not work.
[10:43:21] <Chipdancer> so 'zfs set mountpoint=legacy zpool/fsname
[10:43:36] <spiff> e^ipi: I've done this four times already
[10:43:51] <e^ipi> trippy
[10:43:56] <spiff> e^ipi: sysidconfig -l only lists sshd
[10:44:18] <spiff> (this is a new ipkg brand zone on 101a, non-sparse)
[10:44:31] <e^ipi> oh, ipkg... NFI, never dealt with them
[10:45:40] <spiff> doesnt seem like anyone has
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[10:50:21] <_coredump_> moinsen
[10:50:52] <xRaich[o]2x> moinsen _coredump_
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[10:51:41] <h3sp4wn> Can you have an ipkg brand zone on SXCE
[10:51:56] <quasi> no
[10:51:57] <e^ipi> doubtful
[10:54:10] <h3sp4wn> It seems wierd that you can have a nexenta branded zone but not ipkg
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[10:54:54] <quasi> not really
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[10:56:05] <Dakylla> hi
[10:56:52] <Dakylla> i've a 8 ports marvel card installed in a dell poweredge 1800. im new to solaris and opensolaris
[10:57:02] <Dakylla> i can see the disks with
[10:57:06] <h3sp4wn> quasi: If Opensolaris is just a basterised version of SXCE surely its closer than nexenta (given you make a tarball from somewhere else and use the same b number)
[10:57:07] <Dakylla> iostat -xcnCXTdz
[10:57:29] <quasi> h3sp4wn: nope, it's the other way around - nexenta is closer
[10:57:44] <quasi> h3sp4wn: just look at how broken zones are on indiana
[10:57:47] <JWheeler> that's quite an iostat!
[10:58:03] <Dakylla> here's teh output : http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/1259101
[10:58:07] <Dakylla> JWheeler: yes
[10:58:07] <Dakylla> lol
[10:58:34] <Dakylla> my disks seems to be c7tXd0
[10:58:40] <Dakylla> there are four of them
[10:58:52] <JWheeler> what does plain 'format' tell you?
[10:58:57] <Dakylla> teh problem is that i can't acces them
[10:59:28] <Dakylla> 2sec
[10:59:36] <Dakylla> pastebin coming
[10:59:58] <Dakylla> http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/1259102
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[11:00:51] <CosmicDJ> #define cant_access
[11:01:08] <JWheeler> ok, so it really only wants to see 4, of 8 disks?
[11:01:14] <Dakylla> four
[11:01:22] <JWheeler> oh, well that's ok then
[11:01:27] <JWheeler> what are you wanting to do with them?
[11:01:38] <trygvis> hm, zonecfg create doesn't seem too create the root file system
[11:01:40] <Dakylla> i want to add them to a zpool
[11:02:38] <JWheeler> ok, so a simple test would be: zpool create marvell c7t0d0 c7t1d0 c7t2d0 c7t3d0
[11:02:43] <Dakylla> ok, ok, wait, im gonna kill myself
[11:03:21] <Dakylla> i just launch the command once more and guess what...yeah, it's working !
[11:03:23] <Dakylla> zpool create nasdata /dev/dsk/c7t1d0
[11:03:36] <Dakylla> zpool list :
[11:03:36] <Dakylla> nasdata   928G  73.5K   928G     0%  ONLINE
[11:03:36] <JWheeler> ah, great :)
[11:03:54] <Dakylla> i don't understant why it's suddently start working
[11:04:12] <JWheeler> perhaps go back through your command history, to see if you can spot any typos?
[11:04:24] <Dakylla> yes, for sure i'll :)
[11:07:44] <trygvis> e^ipi: at what point will the datasets be marked as "zoned"?
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[11:09:22] <Dakylla> i've an other question
[11:09:23] <trygvis> hm, I can just set zoned directly
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[11:10:08] <Dakylla> i have a internal sata contoler, i can see the second disk connected to it with iostat, but not with teh format command
[11:10:53] <Dakylla> it's called c4t0d0 thx to iostat, but "zpool create nasdata c4t0d0" gives
[11:10:58] <Dakylla> open 'c4t0d0': no such device in /dev/dsk
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[11:13:01] <Dakylla> taht was the kind of problem i used to have with teh c7 controller, untill it suddently starts working :s
[11:13:04] <CosmicDJ> Dakylla: cvgadm -al or cfgadm -alv show anything interesting?
[11:13:27] <Dakylla> cvgadm command not found
[11:13:36] <Dakylla> maybe because it's opensolaris
[11:13:41] <Dakylla> and not solaris
[11:13:43] <CosmicDJ> cfgadm
[11:13:48] <CosmicDJ> typo
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[11:15:04] <Dakylla> here's the output : http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/1259107
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[11:16:35] <Dakylla> this internal controler does support the system disk too, so it's sure it is recognized
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[11:18:24] <Dakylla> what is strange is the fact that i can't see it with the cfgadm tools
[11:18:50] <CosmicDJ> what's your bootdisk?
[11:19:07] <Dakylla> c5d0
[11:19:17] <Dakylla> and my root FS c5d0s0
[11:21:58] <CosmicDJ> which is not connected to the marvell?!
[11:22:21] <Dakylla> no it is not, i's an internal controller
[11:22:21] <Dakylla> i understant that c5d0s0 is Controller 5, Disk0, Slice 0
[11:22:43] <Dakylla> if the is a problem i can simply connect it to teh marvel of course
[11:22:54] <Dakylla> what does c5d0p0 represents please ?
[11:23:22] <Stric> msdos partition 0
[11:23:33] <Dakylla> im not only try to setup the system am also learning, it's quite interresting :)
[11:23:35] <Stric> for "PC Partition table"
[11:23:45] <Dakylla> ok, thx
[11:24:16] <CosmicDJ> and there's another disk on your internal controller? c4?
[11:24:59] <Dakylla> this is not clear to me, cause infact, i should not see c4
[11:25:12] <Dakylla> i onley have 2 sata controller
[11:25:48] <Dakylla> so my second disk on the internal controller should be c5d1
[11:26:06] <Dakylla> am i wrong ?
[11:26:26] <CosmicDJ> so your problem is, that you're seeing a c4 in "iostat -xcnCXTdz", but nowhere else?
[11:26:49] <Dakylla> yes
[11:27:20] <Dakylla> i also have c6d0, but i think it is the cdrom device
[11:27:38] <CosmicDJ> then I'd start with the iostat manpage, try to figure out what all those options do
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[11:28:31] <Dakylla> yes, i guess so
[11:34:54] <Dakylla> thx you guys, i'll go the simple way : connecting the second disk on the internal controller ti the marvel card ;)
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[12:00:36] <DTEIT> re
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[12:13:48] <Dakylla> im back :)
[12:14:09] <CosmicDJ> blessed with iostat knowledge?
[12:14:17] <Dakylla> totally
[12:14:18] <Dakylla> lol
[12:14:41] <CosmicDJ> ;)
[12:14:58] <Dakylla> are there any iscsi howto for zfs ?, and is it better than nfs (+ cifs - for windows hosts)
[12:15:37] <Chipdancer> Dakylla: really depends on what you're trying to do
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[12:16:00] <Chipdancer> Dakylla: zfs shareiscsi=on fsname
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[12:19:16] <CosmicDJ> well you can't snapshot an iscsi share, right?
[12:19:40] <Dakylla> really ?
[12:19:49] <Dakylla> thats a sad news
[12:20:43] <Dakylla> cause i have an other similar system, which will snapshot the nasmaster to provide backup if something goes wrong with it
[12:21:22] <Dakylla> so i guess i"ll have to go the nfs way
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[12:28:34] <Dakylla> CosmicDJ: thx i appreciate ;)
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[12:30:51] <CosmicDJ> Dakylla: this was an open question, not an advise...
[12:31:55] <CosmicDJ> but yes, I think sharing via nfs/cifs is your best option
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[12:33:16] <CosmicDJ> IIRC you also cannot mount the same iscsi "device" on multiple hosts (concurrently)...
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[12:35:31] <Chipdancer> zfs snapshot works on iscsi shared volumes
[12:35:49] <Chipdancer> maybe not while they are currently shared, I just tested it on an idle iscsi shared zfs volume
[12:36:16] <CosmicDJ> hm, interessting
[12:36:33] <Dakylla> Chipdancer: thx for the info, i'll do some tests my self
[12:37:31] <Chipdancer> Dakylla: of course, this all depends on what you actually want to use and for what purpose
[12:37:53] <CosmicDJ> but it still doesn't sound very useful; imagine windows + ntfs fs on an iscsi volume...
[12:38:27] <Dakylla> CosmicDJ: i don't get it
[12:38:48] <Dakylla> are you talking about setup problems, or what ?
[12:40:13] <CosmicDJ> no the usefulness of snapshots, you can't snapshot when windows is doing stuff on your iscsi vol.; that calls for trouble when you revert to that snapshot
[12:40:14] <Dakylla> i do think nfs+cifs would be easier to handle in the future, cause those "features" are build in the OSes
[12:40:31] <Dakylla> yes
[12:41:36] <Dakylla> snapshots if definitly not the way to do what i want but this the best solution i came with
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[12:42:49] <Dakylla> are there solution to sync the two server (nasmaster and nasslave) so that if the master die, i can simply plug the hosts to the nasslave server ?
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[12:45:25] <Tobbe> what's the equivalent to /boot/grub/menu.1st on OSol?
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[12:47:34] <tynar> can someone advice me a book of software QA testing for C ?
[12:48:31] <CosmicDJ> Dakylla: sun's avs, or if you are bored, sun cluster
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[12:49:54] <Dakylla> ok man, gonna read about this
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[12:53:52] <CosmicDJ> tynar: until that book arrives, take a look at the lint manpage ;)
[12:54:19] <Chipdancer> Dakylla: check out http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/ndmp/;jsessionid=1CFE2EEFD62311EDFE57DFF7C9B41675 (NDMP)
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[12:55:21] <tynar> CosmicDJ : i didn't know that, tnx, i will read manpage
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[12:56:05] <Dakylla> thx for the link Chipdancer
[12:56:07] <Dakylla> reading
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[12:58:16] <Dakylla> Chipdancer: i don't want nasslave to be just a backup server, it need to be able to take nasmaster's place by anytime (some conf, zpool, parameters ans so)
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[12:59:25] <Dakylla> a question, zfs properties are store in the pool, or on the server's side ?
[12:59:40] <Chipdancer> surely in the pool, but I cannot say for certain
[13:00:16] <Dakylla> i mean if a place the disks on an other system, will the new system be aware of them ?
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[13:00:52] <Chipdancer> Dakylla: well, I did a reinstall to a different disk and all of my settings were there when I imported my primary storage pool
[13:01:13] <Dakylla> ok, that's good news
[13:01:40] <Dakylla> man the more a read about zfs the more im pelased, this is ENORMOUS !!
[13:01:53] <Dakylla> kudos for all teh zfs developpers, really
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[13:03:49] <Chipdancer> Dakylla: it's more than enough reason to switch OS :)
[13:04:47] <Dakylla> im considering it, for my servers, but not yet on my desktop :)
[13:05:25] <plavcik> hi, I like to report bug for Solaris but I don't see Solaris listed n http://bugs.sun.com, where I shall do that?
[13:05:42] <Tobbe> is there a graphical partition manager for OSol? What's it's name?
[13:07:15] <Chipdancer> Tobbe: don't think so.. unless you have a FISHworks server
[13:07:28] <Tobbe> :(
[13:07:29] <Chipdancer> and even then, I'm not sure they have a partition manager as part of their prettyness
[13:07:41] <Chipdancer> Tobbe: it's not very hard.. just use format -> partition
[13:07:57] <Chipdancer> besides, just use whole disks and make them part of your zpools
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[13:08:38] <Tobbe> I want to list all available partitions on a disk
[13:08:50] <Tobbe> and if there are any I want to delete them
[13:09:05] <Chipdancer> format -> select disk -> partition -> print
[13:10:31] <Tobbe> hmm, shows 9 "part"s
[13:10:47] <Tobbe> 10 even (0-9)
[13:10:53] <Chipdancer> 10 theoretical parts
[13:11:03] <Chipdancer> but look at how much is assigned to each 'slice'
[13:11:03] <Tobbe> 7 of them are unassigned
[13:11:16] <Chipdancer> you will likely have 0, 2, 8 and 9
[13:11:31] <Tobbe> 0, 2 and 8 only
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[13:11:38] <Tobbe> root, backup and boot
[13:11:52] <Chipdancer> and root takes up almost all of the disk
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[13:11:59] <Tobbe> yes
[13:12:05] <Tobbe> root and backup seems to overlap
[13:12:06] <Chipdancer> then you're fine
[13:12:11] <Chipdancer> yeah, ignore that
[13:12:17] <Chipdancer> backup is the entire disk traditionally
[13:13:07] <Tobbe> ok, now that I have verified that there aren't any windows partitions, how do I remove Windows from the grub menu?
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[13:13:52] <Tobbe> should I use the bootadm program, or just edit the boot.1st file directly?
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[13:15:26] <quasi> ircname  : Linux User
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[13:19:11] <Chipdancer> Tobbe: man bootadm, look at docs.sun.com
[13:19:19] * Chipdancer goes to bed
[13:19:23] <Tobbe> thanks
[13:19:48] <Chipdancer> http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/coll/47.23
[13:19:59] <Chipdancer> that's a good start (Solaris Express System Administrator Collection)
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[13:20:47] <Chipdancer> well, look at that, a very similar URL to what I pasted is in the topic!
[13:20:54] <Chipdancer> I wonder why it's there?
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[13:23:06] <spiff> I'm running into this: http://pastebin.com/m7739e882
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[13:24:52] <Chipdancer> spiff: I'm guessing your disk image is there and is readable?
[13:24:59] <spiff> yeah.
[13:25:22] <spiff> I have a paste of truss output too: http://pastebin.com/m5ef3b87
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[13:29:05] <Chipdancer> spiff: what dom0 are you running?
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[13:33:03] <spiff> Chipdancer: dunno, whatever comes with ips snv101a
[13:33:21] <Chipdancer> hrmm
[13:33:31] <Chipdancer> well, I'm off to bed, but would be interested to hear if you get it working
[13:34:37] <Chipdancer> spiff: the european's might be awake now and may be able to help you in #solaris-xen on irc.oftc.net
[13:38:56] <spiff> ok, thanks
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[13:42:28] <consanguinity> ugh: http://opensolaris.org/os/project/phpEasyTools/
[13:42:33] <consanguinity> what happened to visual panels?
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[14:11:48] <trochej> Coffee?
[14:14:34] <quasi> caffeine would be good right around now
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[14:22:01] <kim0> hmm
[14:22:33] <kim0> How do I define __EXTENSIONS__ on solaris when building some C code .. any ideas ?
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[14:28:54] <CosmicDJ> kim0: what's __EXTENSIONS__ ?
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[14:35:30] <kim0> seems like a C typedef that enables some some functionality
[14:35:37] <kim0> think GNU POSIX extensions
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[14:41:14] <jbit> typedef?
[14:42:17] <jbit> you can just do "CFLAGS=-D__EXTENSIONS__ make" or something
[14:42:25] <jbit> if it just needs to be #define'd
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[14:47:15] <CosmicDJ> kim0: man standards
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[14:48:02] <kim0> CosmicDJ: ok
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[14:59:44] <vargadanis> hello... do any of you use openvz on solaris?
[15:00:10] <Stric> no, because it's a linux-only thing
[15:00:20] <asyd> well, that make no sense. Check for solaris's containers, aka zones
[15:00:23] <Stric> solaris zones are about the same thing
[15:00:42] <vargadanis> alright.. will do that, thanx for the idea :)
[15:01:03] <vargadanis> btw.. ZFS rocks as far as I can tell by the videos and presentations :)
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[15:03:15] <CosmicDJ> it rocks most on your own disks ;)
[15:04:33] <vargadanis> in the description of zones they are refereing to solaris 10
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[15:04:44] <vargadanis> is solaris 10=opensoalris?
[15:05:04] <trochej> Mostly
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[15:05:27] <consanguinity> solaris 10 is the release before opensolaris, and also the current production version of solaris
[15:05:33] <consanguinity> opensolaris will eventually become solaris 11
[15:05:46] <trochej> Solaris gets some backports from OpenSolaris
[15:05:51] <consanguinity> most things work the same way in both, but opensolaris has more features
[15:05:59] <trochej> Like newer versions of ZFS or zones
[15:06:09] <consanguinity> also, if you use indiana (2008.05), be aware it has a completely different packaging system than solaris 10
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[15:08:48] <vargadanis> yeah, i noticed that... in fact it seems to be completly broken to me
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[15:14:43] <sickness> ciao morettoni :)
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[15:15:55] <vargadanis> did I understand the text correcly that if I use brandZ I can run Linux env?
[15:16:06] <sickness> yeah
[15:17:36] <aruiz> vargadanis, you cannot use any version of linux though
[15:17:57] <aruiz> vargadanis, not all system calls has been implemented
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[15:18:13] <vargadanis> ohh.. that isn't good
[15:18:31] <vargadanis> what sort of kernel is opensolaris using?
[15:19:05] <asyd> a big, yellow one, which taste like beer
[15:19:19] <nico> asyd: yeah, belgian beer then
[15:19:23] * nico ducks
[15:19:29] <asyd> :)
[15:19:33] <aruiz> vargadanis, sort of kernel?
[15:20:57] <aruiz> vargadanis, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solaris_(operating_system)
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[15:25:27] <vargadanis> I see
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[15:26:01] <vargadanis> in your experience, is opensolaris fitted for a production environment?
[15:26:20] <cypromis> which opensolaris ?
[15:26:34] <cypromis> and which production environment ?
[15:26:40] <cypromis> nevada runs our servers nciely
[15:26:45] <trochej> And what does "fitted" mean? :)
[15:26:47] <cypromis> except for our ss7boxes
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[15:31:44] <vargadanis> opensolaris as in project indiana and production env as in 'for a website with a load of 10000 request/sec'
[15:32:03] <consanguinity> vargadanis: i'd never run a development OS on a production system.  it's like running debian unstable or freebsd -current
[15:33:08] <vargadanis> I thought 2008.05 was stable
[15:33:17] <vargadanis> but yes, I wouldn't do that either
[15:33:30] <consanguinity> no, 2008.05 is based on nevada, the development code
[15:33:37] <consanguinity> there's no stable release of opensolaris yet
[15:33:55] <consanguinity> although i believe sun plan to produce a half-and-half system, where they take a well-tested version of nevada and freeze it
[15:34:07] <consanguinity> and create a repository that only provides bug fixes and updates, like solaris 10 has
[15:34:17] <vargadanis> ahh this sucks... I really want to use ZFS and DTrace :)
[15:34:25] <consanguinity> both of which are in solaris 10
[15:34:53] <vargadanis> I really hope that OpenSolaris will be a successful distro
[15:35:02] <vargadanis> i like the way Sun is going :)
[15:35:08] <vargadanis> no distro
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[15:35:12] <vargadanis> sorry about the word
[15:35:15] <vargadanis> OS
[15:35:27] <CosmicDJ> http://blogs.sun.com/migi/entry/approaching_no_1
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[15:36:13] <CosmicDJ> seems like it is successful ;)
[15:36:31] <CosmicDJ> anyway, you want a production quality OS; install solaris10
[15:37:06] <CosmicDJ> btw, the opensolaris.org folks are big fans of "eating our own dogfood", IIRC they run opensolaris (sxce or smth like that)
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[15:38:44] <Tobbe> how do I make OSol use 24 bit graphics instead of 16?
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[15:39:05] <vargadanis> are Entitlement Documents free as well?
[15:39:13] <vargadanis> for Solaris10
[15:39:27] <consanguinity> context?
[15:39:38] <consanguinity> that sounds like sunsolve stuff.. some of it is free, some isn't
[15:40:03] <CosmicDJ> same with patches
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[15:42:42] <stevel> CosmicDJ: http://blogs.sun.com/bjc/entry/fcs_quality_all_the_time
[15:43:05] <consanguinity> but "FCS all the time" is a goal, not a fact ;)
[15:43:12] <consanguinity> (just look at 102..)
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[15:43:27] <stevel> i was referring to his comment re: os.o running opensolaris
[15:43:33] <stevel> bonnie's blog has more details on it
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[15:48:09] <alanc_away> Tobbe: OpenSolaris defaults to 24-bit graphics - you'd have to reconfigure it to get 16-bit
[15:48:48] <Tobbe> alanc_away: hmm, the default background doesn't look smooth enough to be 24 bit though
[15:49:08] <Stric> have you checked with anything but 1 image?
[15:49:25] <Tobbe> I've checked with the included desktop backgrounds
[15:49:36] <consanguinity> Tobbe: xdpyinfo|grep depths
[15:49:37] <Tobbe> if you have a more scientific test, please tell me :)
[15:49:42] <CosmicDJ> Tobbe: hehe
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[15:49:46] <alanc_away> run "xdpyinfo | less" and look for "depths:" under screen #0"
[15:50:01] <CosmicDJ> Tobbe: you can't switch from 16bit to 24bit with your eyes? ;)
[15:50:39] <Tobbe> ohh
[15:50:52] <Puneet> Really
[15:51:00] <Tobbe> depths(7): 24,1,4,8,15,16,32
[15:51:21] <CosmicDJ> I'd call an eye specialist...
[15:51:21] <Puneet> Thats not the proper sequence
[15:51:38] <CosmicDJ> Puneet: you'd start with 1?
[15:51:46] <Puneet> 1,no 32
[15:51:50] <wereHamster> is there a way to suppress suncc warnings when casting some pointer to void*?
[15:52:03] <CosmicDJ> Puneet: hm alanc just said that 24bit is default on OpenSol
[15:52:05] <consanguinity> wereHamster: implicit or explicit cast?
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[15:52:12] <Tobbe> can I make it run in 32 bit? that'd be even better
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[15:52:20] <wereHamster> consanguinity: implicit
[15:52:30] <Puneet> He said it right
[15:52:33] <consanguinity> wereHamster: C or C++?  i don't get a warning in C..
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[15:52:40] <wereHamster> I don't think the compiler should warn about an explicet cast. C
[15:53:01] <Puneet> It should
[15:53:07] <CosmicDJ> wereHamster: exact warning + codeline would be nice
[15:53:36] <consanguinity> wereHamster: anyway, compile with -errtags, then recompile with -erroff=E_YOU_DID_SOMETHING_WRONG
[15:53:39] <Puneet> c has been supporting explicit casting
[15:53:40] <consanguinity> (replacing E_WHATEVER with the error tag)
[15:53:53] <wereHamster> CosmicDJ: http://78.46.209.101/stuff/transmission-0.40-solaris.txt (blocklist.c warnings), the call is unmap() with the first argument passed 'struct tr_ip_range*'
[15:54:20] <consanguinity> wereHamster: that's not void*, it's char*
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[15:55:06] <consanguinity> wereHamster: try compiling with -D_XOPEN_SOURCE=600 -D__EXTENSION__ to get a different munmap declaration
[15:55:14] <consanguinity> sorry, EXTENSIONS, not EXTENSION
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[15:55:40] <Puneet> Is that ur cats pic
[15:55:41] <Puneet> ??
[15:55:42] <wereHamster> is caddr_t defined as char* in solaris?
[15:56:06] <consanguinity> yes
[15:56:45] <alanc_away> "svccfg -s x11-server listprop options/default_depth" should show the default depth passed on the commandline when starting Xorg or Xsun - can use svccfg setprop to change it
[15:57:09] <consanguinity> wereHamster: if you compile in SUS / XPG4v2 standards mode (or greater) you should get void* instead of caddr_t in those functions
[15:57:39] <Tobbe> is 'svcadm disable gdm' and then 'svcadm enable gdm' the correct way to restart X?
[15:58:18] <wereHamster> consanguinity: the difficult thing is to get all these defines right on all platforms, since that's a gnu/linux application
[15:58:23] <alanc_away> just logout is easier
[15:58:31] <consanguinity> wereHamster: well, the thing about standards is they should be the same on all platforms
[15:58:38] <alanc_away> gdm should automatically restart X when going back to the login screen
[15:59:03] <Tobbe> ok
[15:59:10] <consanguinity> wereHamster: but on solaris, if you request _XOPEN_SOURCE=600, you won't get any platform-specific definitions.  __EXTENSIONS__ re-enables solaris-specific functionality that doesn't conflict with that standard.  (on linux, perhaps you'll need _GNU_SOURCE or similar)
[16:00:26] <consanguinity> (most - although not all - open source software isn't strictly POSIX compliant, so it requires that additional functionality)
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[16:01:38] <Skinkie> hi all; the default configs like ipconfig are saved automatically right? or should one invoke a command to actually store themL
[16:01:45] <wereHamster> consanguinity: I'll give up. If I define _XOPEN_SOURCE=600 other parts (libevent) fail to compile. It's a warning anyway so I'll leave it be
[16:02:01] <consanguinity> wereHamster: even with __EXTENSIONS__?
[16:02:05] <wereHamster> yes
[16:02:08] <consanguinity> anyway, i described earlier how to suppress the warning
[16:02:13] <consanguinity> but that seems not to be the right fix ;)
[16:02:45] <wereHamster> thanks for the hint
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[16:05:29] <Tobbe> alanc_away: X doesn't start after loging out. I am stuck with the console
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[16:06:31] <alanc_away> look in /var/log/Xorg.0.log for error messsages
[16:07:44] <alanc_away> svcadm restart gdm should restart it once you've fixed whatever problem is reported (like incorrect depth setting)
[16:08:32] <Tobbe> "Given depth (32) is not supported by radeon driver" ;)
[16:08:47] <Asako> how come virt-install says there's no such option as --ostype?
[16:09:31] <Asako> I'm also getting some errors with using an iso file
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[16:09:52] <Asako> http://pastebin.ca/1259315
[16:10:29] <wereHamster> does suncc compile 32bit code by default?
[16:10:53] <alanc_away> yes
[16:11:03] <tavis> when i try and attach a second drive for to mirror my boot zpool i get the following error:  EFI labeled devices are not supported on root pools.
[16:11:08] <consanguinity> wereHamster: and gcc
[16:11:25] <alanc_away> need to pass -m64 (Studio 12 & later) or -xarch=generic64 (Studio 11 & earlier) to build 64-bit
[16:11:28] <consanguinity> on solaris, we usually only build 64-bit for things that require it for whatever reason, or for libraries (so other 64-bit software can use those library)
[16:11:32] <holcomb> format it so that slice 0 has all the space, then attch cXtYdZs0
[16:11:39] <wereHamster> consanguinity: what 'and gcc'?
[16:11:46] <consanguinity> gcc also builds 32-bit by default
[16:11:56] <wereHamster> not on my box
[16:12:27] <consanguinity> it would be very strange if they changed that between S10 and nevada
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[16:12:34] <consanguinity> as it would break all kinds of things
[16:12:49] <wereHamster> I mean on my linux box, haven't tried gcc on solaris yet ;)
[16:12:58] <consanguinity> yes, it builds 64-bit by default on linux
[16:13:00] <tavis> holcomb: i haven't formatted any of the drives.  I didn't see this anywhere in the Solaris ZFS Administration Guide ... i will look into it.  Thanks for your help.
[16:13:02] <consanguinity> on solaris it doesn't
[16:13:30] <holcomb> and don't forget to add the bootblock (installgrub on x86 and installboot on sparc)
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[16:14:42] <tavis> holcomb:  thanks!  DInd't think i needed to do that with zfs.  Is there a guide that covers this end to end?  I will doc for myself.. but why replicate what has already been written.
[16:15:08] <Tobbe> alanc_away: I switched back to 24. X still doesn't start
[16:15:23] <Tobbe> and there's nothing new in the Xorg log
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[16:16:00] <Stric> gothos: I sent an info request to Sun about the "user quota" thing.. Current date is 31/12, any year.. But if enough customers poke them, priorities can be rearranged..
[16:16:12] <holcomb> check the opensolaris zfs page.... i think there's an item in the sidebar like zfs boot faq or something
[16:16:27] <holcomb> it's probably somewhere in docs.sun.com for 10/08 as wel
[16:17:14] <alanc_away> weird
[16:17:22] <tavis> holcomb:  Thanks will do.  I am reading the Solaris ZFS Administration Guide on docs.sun.com.  The info is all over the place though.  I will check out the faq.
[16:17:23] <Tobbe> I'm rebooting
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[16:18:50] <Tobbe> that worked :)
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[16:31:54] <Skinkie> could anyone tell me how to 'store' a network configuration in solaris, after getting it to work with ifconfig?
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[16:32:34] <Asako> edit /etc/hostname.ifname
[16:32:53] <Skinkie> only the hostname is in there
[16:33:01] <Skinkie> then i should edit my /etc/hosts?
[16:33:04] <Asako> sure
[16:33:06] <Asako> either way works
[16:33:17] <Asako> [root at sctest2 dot liquidweb.com] ~ >> cat /etc/hostname.rge0
[16:33:17] <Asako> 192.168.0.2
[16:33:24] <Asako> for example
[16:33:25] <Skinkie> is there an automatic way? by dladm?
[16:33:30] <Asako> no idea
[16:33:30] <Tobbe> you might have to edit /etc/defaultrouter too
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[16:33:44] <Asako> yeah, if you need a gateway for that IP
[16:34:25] <Tobbe> Skinkie: you could also edit /etc/nwam/llp if you want to use nwam instead
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[16:34:44] <Asako> I like doing things manually, hehe
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[16:35:47] <Tobbe> probably says "ifname dhcp" now, change that to "ifname static 192.168.0.2/24" or whatever ip you use
[16:36:00] <Skinkie> Tobbe: that  directory doesn't exist yet... i'm running an anchient opensolaris release
[16:36:09] <Skinkie> last night i got caughty by a page fault
[16:36:14] <Skinkie> and all hell broke loose
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[16:36:36] <dsop> maybe a dumb question, but how do I find out if my system is running 32bit or 64bit?
[16:36:45] <Tobbe> Skinkie: stick to /etc/hostname and the rest then :)
[16:37:17] <Skinkie> i didn't see the defaultrouter thing
[16:37:20] <consanguinity> dsop: isainfo -b
[16:37:22] <Skinkie> but i don't need it anyway
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[16:44:53] <tavis> holcomb:  Any tricks to doing a format?  I am getting "Formatting.... Format failed"
[16:45:05] <Neelabh> Use some tool
[16:45:12] <Neelabh> search google
[16:45:18] <Neelabh> tavis
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[16:46:15] <tavis> i have searched and read the docs.
[16:46:31] <dsop> consanguinity: thanks
[16:46:35] <Asako> all you need to do is create a solaris slice
[16:46:42] <Asako> or use the raw disk
[16:47:51] <tavis> i have tried to create the slice but still get the "EFI labeled devices are not supported on root pools." error when i zpool attach the second drive
[16:48:37] <tavis> partitions look exactly the same on first and second disk.... but i still get that error when i try and zpool attach
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[16:49:00] <asyd> try to use format, and label subcommand
[16:49:05] <Dakylla> hi im back
[16:49:14] <Neelabh> Use Windows XP Disc
[16:49:22] <Neelabh> Or FDISK
[16:49:28] <codestr0m> what's comparable to ACL_TYPE_DEFAULT on sol? I don't see it defined http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref/onnv/onnv-gate/usr/src/uts/common/sys/acl.h and maybe there's something known to be comparable
[16:49:55] <iMax> if I want to bfu my system, where to I find get the extract_hostid tool from?
[16:50:05] <codestr0m> just ACL_DEFAULT?
[16:50:34] <Dakylla> i've created a zfs FS , exported it and mounted it from a linux box, but i can't get to write to it ?
[16:50:46] <Dakylla> root@nasmaster:~# exportfs
[16:50:52] <Dakylla> this si from teh server
[16:51:00] <Dakylla> 192.168.2.197:/nasdata/test
[16:51:00] <Dakylla>                       2.9T     0  2.9T   0% /mnt/test
[16:51:09] <Dakylla> this is from teh cleint (linux ubuntu)
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[16:51:35] <Stric> and you're trying to write as root?
[16:51:40] <Dakylla> yes
[16:51:57] <Stric> and have you exported it with root rights?
[16:52:00] <Dakylla> just to test
[16:52:10] <Dakylla> dunno
[16:52:16] <Stric> by default, root is not trusted over nfs
[16:52:22] <Dakylla> it should be rw for everyone
[16:52:32] <Stric> .. but root
[16:52:49] <Stric> root is squashed to "nobody"
[16:53:00] <Stric> unless you export it with root rights.. just like on every other nix OS
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[16:53:24] <Dakylla> i agree, but nobody should also be everyone ?
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[16:53:58] <consanguinity> unless the directory is owned by 'nobody', or that user has an ACL allowing access, they can't modify it
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[16:54:09] <consanguinity> if you want to write as root, you need to export using the 'root' option
[16:55:03] <Dakylla> alright
[16:55:06] <Dakylla> got it
[16:55:08] <Dakylla> thx
[16:55:29] <codestr0m> xar is a dep for rpm5, but the xar from google code doesn't build for me. there patches around or a sun version?
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[17:01:27] <solarce> is 'zfs clone' the same as 'zfs copy' (which I realize does not exist)
[17:01:39] <consanguinity> solarce: since zfs copy doesn't exist, there's no possible answer to that question
[17:01:49] <consanguinity> clone creates a new filesystem with the contents of an existing snapshot
[17:02:02] <solarce> what happens if that snapshot does away?
[17:02:05] <consanguinity> (unlike the snapshot, the new filesystem is read-write)
[17:02:14] <solarce> goes*
[17:02:22] <consanguinity> zfs won't let you delete a snapshot that a clone depends on.  if you want to do that, you need to 'zfs promote' the clone first
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[17:03:28] <Puneet> Hello!
[17:03:42] <consanguinity> (the reason for this is that clone doesn't copy anything, it just refers to the original data)
[17:04:01] <Asako> (xVM) mm.c:649:d14 Error getting mfn 3fff (pfn 149b1) from L1 entry 0000000003fff063 for dom32753
[17:04:05] <Asako> any idea what that means?
[17:04:32] <solarce> consanguinity: so promoting the clone means it becomes a "full copy"?
[17:04:43] <consanguinity> no, it just reverses the dependency
[17:04:51] <consanguinity> now the original filesystem depends on the clone, instead of the other way around
[17:05:16] <solarce> so how do I make an indepedent copy of a zfs filesystem?
[17:05:17] <consanguinity> (this is what you want, since now you can delete the original filesystem)
[17:05:40] <consanguinity> i don't see why you'd want to do that.. but you can create an empty fs and use cpio/tar/whatever to copy the contents
[17:05:43] <pjd> solarce: cp(1):)
[17:05:47] <xRaich[o]2x> solarce: use zfs send/receive. that's what i can think of first
[17:06:03] <consanguinity> hm, yes, send/receive is probably better
[17:09:18] <consanguinity> codestr0m: unless you're especially attached to that rpm version, try the other one
[17:09:49] <codestr0m> consanguinity: can you recommend one?
[17:09:56] <consanguinity> which one did you try now?
[17:10:33] <codestr0m> consanguinity: I'm manually looking at deps for different rpm formats and xar is a dep to rpm5
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[17:11:11] <codestr0m> however, rpm5 is supposed to be working on opensolaris
[17:11:12] <consanguinity> "rpm5" must refer to the non-redhat one, since redhat rpm is only at 4.4
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[17:11:20] <codestr0m> correct
[17:11:27] <codestr0m> after the guy left RH he kept working on it
[17:11:41] <consanguinity> perhaps you could try the redhat version instead
[17:12:12] <codestr0m> consanguinity: perhaps, but then I could also try dep and evaluate lots of things
[17:12:16] <codestr0m> deb*
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[17:16:13] <Asako> is blastwave broken?
[17:16:38] <Asako> the catalog is missing
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[17:23:44] <kohju> Really?
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[17:24:30] <kohju> Asako, my mirror server is still available. > http://dist.justplayer.com/csw/
[17:24:31] <GEN0VA> hi there
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[17:24:56] <Asako> kohju, thanks
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[17:25:10] <Asako> pkgget keeps giving me 404 errors
[17:25:13] <kohju> Asako, if you need just now, i think that you can set it.
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[17:25:29] <Asako> all I needed was the qemu package file
[17:25:41] <Asako> I'm all set
[17:25:43] <GEN0VA> i have a problem on a FS, with df -k /opt it gives me 90% use, and on /var/adm/messages it displays NOTICE: alloc: /opt: file system full
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[17:26:36] <kohju> and if my mirror will be destroy when mirrored, you can check http://dist.justplayer.com/csw/.zfs/  :D
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[17:31:22] <GEN0VA> i have a problem on a FS, with df -k /opt it gives me 90% use, and on /var/adm/messages it displays NOTICE: alloc: /opt: file system full    now free space 11Gb
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[17:34:51] <tavis> when i try and mirror my root pool rpool using a full slice on a second drive i receive " new device must be a single disk"
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[17:36:28] <TomJ> i had that too
[17:36:32] <TomJ> it cleared after a reboot
[17:37:00] <tavis> TomJ:  are you addressing my question?
[17:37:03] <TomJ> yes
[17:37:18] <tavis> TomJ:  ok thanks will give it a reboot
[17:37:36] <tavis> TomJ:  is there no way to commit the changes so a reboot is not required?
[17:37:52] <TomJ> a reboot should never be required, I have no idea what happened to make it be required
[17:38:16] <TomJ> what commands did you execute to setup your slice for the second rpool disk?
[17:38:47] <TomJ> in my case I did:
[17:38:57] <tavis> i used format > fdisk ... then part > label > quit etc
[17:39:24] <TomJ> fdisk -B /dev/rdsk/c3t0d0p0 ; prtvtoc /dev/rdsk/c4t0d0s2 | fmthard -s - /dev/rdsk/c3t0d0s2 ;  zpool attach -f rpool c4t0d0s0 c3t0d0s0
[17:40:39] <tavis> TomJ:  did i miss anything doing it my way?  same result?
[17:40:50] <TomJ> as long as your partition tables look identical, you should be fine
[17:41:18] <tavis> TomJ:  yes i double/triple checked that
[17:41:29] <TomJ> after you have it attached ok, you'll want to install grub on the second disk with:  installgrub /boot/grub/stage1 /boot/grub/stage2 /dev/rdsk/c3t0d0s0
[17:41:32] <tavis> TomJ:  reboot is done... hang on will give it a try
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[17:42:49] <tavis> TomJ:  worked..... you should not have to reboot...
[17:42:56] <TomJ> indeed
[17:42:57] <TomJ> file it as a bug
[17:43:00] <tavis> TomJ:  thanks for your help though
[17:43:31] <tavis> TomJ:  i might have beat my head against the wall for a couple hours on that one!
[17:43:54] <TomJ> yeah I just gave up and left it for another day, then when another day came I repeated it to get the error text and it magically worked
[17:43:58] <TomJ> figured reboot was the only change in between
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[17:44:24] <tavis> TomJ:  well i just 100% verified that is the case
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[17:46:42] <solarce> xRaich[o]2x: that worked, thanks
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[17:47:38] <xRaich[o]2x> solarce: np, have fun
[17:48:57] <tavis> TomJ:  so you have to copy the partition table?
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[17:49:20] <tavis> TomJ:  fdisk is not enough?
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[17:50:49] <tavis> TomJ:  why did you use c4t0d0s2 instead of c4t0d0s0?
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[17:51:15] <Asako> I just locked up my xvm box
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[17:56:01] <asyd> Asako: what are your feelings with xvm ea3? except you locked it;p
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[17:58:17] <Asako> buggy
[17:58:29] <Asako> not sure if I have ea3
[17:58:49] <Asako> running SXCE b100
[17:59:22] <Asako> I really like branded zones better, but you can't run windows in a zone
[17:59:37] <Asako> or do live migrations
[18:01:23] <h3sp4wn> asyd: Is it fixed so you can use zvol's yet (xvm ea3)
[18:01:40] <Asako> think it crashed because of iscsi issues
[18:02:19] <h3sp4wn> asyd: I never tried ea2 because I was told that it only supporting using file backed (and that for me is useless)
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[18:02:39] <Asako> I'd like to run windows VMs on an iscsi disk
[18:02:43] <asyd> well, h3sp4wn how you get a ssh access to xvm ea3?
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[18:02:57] <Asako> but windows won't see the hard drive
[18:03:27] <TomJ> tavis: s2 is the overlap slice, it represents the entire disk.
[18:03:48] <TomJ> tavis: printing it with prtvtoc, and writing it with fmthard thus writes the whole partition table
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[18:04:58] <h3sp4wn> asyd: Is that important ?
[18:05:04] <Asako> can I use a zvol as the windows disk, or do I have to create an image file?
[18:05:13] <asyd> h3sp4wn: more or less :)
[18:05:51] <asyd> this friday I tried a debian inside xvm server, was very surprised by poor performances, and was really disappointed by the answer I got on the kenay's forum:)
[18:06:07] <Asako> my centos xvms won't network properly
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[18:06:20] <h3sp4wn> I have a Debian sid working under SXCE pretty well
[18:06:27] <Asako> debian isn't an option
[18:06:40] <Asako> I need centos 4 or 5 running cpanel
[18:06:42] <asyd> h3sp4wn: sxce is not xvm server
[18:07:42] <asyd> "For acceptable performance in HVM-mode you need the PV drivers for the guest-OS, but there are no drivers available for Linux...the other way, paravirtualized mode, isn't supported yet too, so it is not a good idea to virtualize a Linux guest with xVM Server this time."
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[18:08:23] <Asako> that's not good
[18:08:53] <asyd> btw, am I alone to dislike kenai.com?
[18:09:07] <Asako> never been there
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[18:11:00] <Asako> so is xvm server newer than what's in SXCE?
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[18:11:34] <h3sp4wn> asyd: Totally, I was wanting to switch to xvm server though (I think I will try hacking something up to boot from a miniroot so I can have the disks in full disk mode to keep the disk cache on) on the other hand you probably know lots about xvm server that I don't
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[18:12:20] <h3sp4wn> asyd: Is that a quote from kenai.com ?
[18:13:44] <Asako> windows setup failed
[18:13:49] <asyd> h3sp4wn: yup
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[18:13:58] <Asako> internal setup data structures are corrupted
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[18:14:55] <h3sp4wn> Asako: Interesting i had that bug with SXCE trying to install win2k8 64 bit in b98 and it was fixed in b99 (90% certain of the build numbers)
[18:15:22] <Asako> I'm using server 2003
[18:16:17] <Asako> I'll try a different iso
[18:16:50] <h3sp4wn> Are you trying to install that onto iscsi
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[18:18:23] <tCzern> how much Ram does opensolaris need to run?
[18:18:56] <Asako> h3sp4wn, yeah
[18:19:08] <Asako> my whole zpool is on iscsi
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[18:19:35] <h3sp4wn> Asako: Have you slipstreamed the initiator etc etc -> ##windows
[18:19:47] <Asako> nope
[18:19:53] <Asako> using a qemu disk image file
[18:20:08] <TomJ> tCzern: at least 1gb is recommended.  it might run in 512, not sure
[18:20:27] <h3sp4wn> tCzern: Without a 64 bit processor its painful
[18:20:43] <consanguinity> hm.. 32-bit should be okay as long as you don't want zfs
[18:20:56] <TomJ> consanguinity: there's no choice but to have ZFS in OpenSolaris
[18:21:01] <h3sp4wn> Can you install indiana onto UFS ?
[18:21:03] <consanguinity> that's true
[18:21:03] <tCzern> ohoh, I have a 32 bit, so shouldn't even bother? 2008.05 Live CD ran ok
[18:21:07] <consanguinity> opensolaris still includes SXCE to me ;)
[18:21:37] <h3sp4wn> tCzern: SXCE with ufs will be alot less painful
[18:21:41] <consanguinity> tCzern: you can try it, but ZFS really prefers 64-bit systems, even if you don't actually add more ram
[18:22:14] <tCzern> I am thinking of installing Debian or OpenSolaris
[18:22:36] <tCzern> 2GB ram only
[18:22:57] <h3sp4wn> A zpool scrub stops you from doing anything else as does running the gui package manager (wasted weekend messing around with that on a 1.7ghz pentium-m 2GB ram)
[18:23:03] <Asako> I like my OS desktop
[18:23:51] <Asako> servers are all SXCE
[18:24:15] <Asako> since I want to test out AVS, xVM, etc.
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[18:25:36] <Asako> AVS and zones are the only things that work so far
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[18:30:44] <TomJ> how's AVS working out fro you?
[18:30:48] <TomJ> what's the speed like?
[18:31:13] <stevel> i ran a 32-bit machine with ZFS quite happily (w/ 4GB of ram)
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[18:31:37] <consanguinity> when i tried zfs on a 32-bit system, copying large files regularly caused deadlocks
[18:31:42] <consanguinity> but i only had 256MB RAM
[18:31:48] <asyd> 256!? :)
[18:31:51] <consanguinity> also that was with snv_27, so it's possible it got fixed
[18:32:14] <TomJ> you can boot SXCE with 256mb ram?
[18:32:26] <consanguinity> you could do a text install in 256 back then
[18:32:30] <TomJ> wow
[18:32:31] <consanguinity> it's 384 now i think..
[18:32:41] <TomJ> my phone has 256m ram
[18:33:31] <gothos> That's no reason for an installer to eat RAM like dragons eating halflings -.-
[18:35:25] <tCzern> what is ZFS, is it an install option? I want to build a Digital Audio Recording WorkStation
[18:35:46] <consanguinity> tCzern: in SXCE, it's an install option.  in 2008.05, it's a requirement
[18:36:04] <TomJ> if you mean "what does ZFS do?" it's a next generation filesystem, the best filesystem available
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[18:36:08] <TomJ> (on any platform)
[18:36:37] <stevel> (except those platforms for which it's not available)
[18:36:45] <tCzern> SXCE? I am waiting for the finale 2008.11 release
[18:37:03] <TomJ> stevel: it's still better than those filesystems :)
[18:37:12] <TomJ> I should say,  (for any platform)
[18:37:24] <tCzern> I tried 2008.05, couldn't install because I got an error with the hard disk
[18:38:55] <consanguinity> heh, that bug is still open (6367701)
[18:39:20] <consanguinity> TomJ: while i agree the filesystem is better, i wish the same could be said about the volume manager.  (not that it's bad, but it's not the *best*, either(
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[18:40:17] <Asako> I want to convert out backup servers to solaris with zfs
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[18:40:37] <Asako> ext3 corrupts itself too much
[18:40:56] <jbk> anyone have access to a sparc running b101?
[18:41:01] <Asako> damn, I just can't get windows to install
[18:41:02] <jbk> and can run ldd on a lib?
[18:41:20] <jbk> (need to see if this is just x86 or both)
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[18:42:41] <Asako> has anybody tried out AoE on solaris?
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[18:42:49] <consanguinity> ata over ethernet?
[18:42:57] <Asako> yeah
[18:43:06] <consanguinity> what's the point?
[18:43:16] <Asako> I don't think the coraids do iscsi
[18:43:33] <Asako> which is what we have
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[18:46:07] <Asako> http://www.fotosource.biz/view/image/6099a3a068e52750b152d61431ce56b930d63166.jpg anybody seen that?
[18:48:45] <evocallaghan> Asako:I believe that is a known problem
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[18:51:19] <evocallaghan> Asako;Have a look at, http://opensolaris.org/os/community/xen/docs/relnotes/
[18:53:49] <Asako> ok
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[18:58:30] <Asako> yay, windows can see a zvol
[18:58:44] <CIA-34> George Shepherd <George.Shepherd at Sun dot COM>: 6745212 panic in ip_find_unused_squeue due to a NULL pointer dereference
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[18:59:21] <sickness> Asako: via nfs/iscsi or directly?!?
[18:59:29] <Asako> directly
[18:59:38] <sickness> omfg
[18:59:47] <sickness> how?
[19:00:11] <Asako> I just pointed virt-install to the device
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[19:00:34] <tobeya> oh you're passing a zvol through as a disk device - that's cool
[19:00:34] <sickness> oh, so it's inside xen with hvm...
[19:00:45] <sickness> I did that with obsd :P
[19:01:20] <Asako> right
[19:01:40] <Asako> obsd has zfs?
[19:01:56] <sickness> virt-install xen+hvm
[19:01:56] <h3sp4wn> sickness: openbsd hvm domU right ? Is there pv drivers (or where can I find the stuff to install it pv)
[19:03:16] <sickness> h3sp4wn: domU with HVM, no pv drivers in the main release, but obsd was ported to xen 2.0 dom0 some time ago, maybe they'll provide them in the future...
[19:03:33] <consanguinity> i thought the openbsd people hated xen
[19:03:56] <Asako> NetBSD has xen 3.0
[19:03:57] <TomJ> The openbsd people hate everything, don't they?
[19:04:06] <sickness> http://www.sickness.it/dmesgxvmsxce94dom0obsd43domuhvm.txt
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[19:04:25] <Asako> I kind of wanted to mess around with a NetBSD dom0
[19:04:47] <sickness> consanguinity: they don't hate xen, maybe they hate vmware and/or virtualbox :P
[19:04:56] <sickness> TomJ: almost everything :P
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[19:06:55] <h3sp4wn> Asako: Its easy enough to install one but use -current and the amd64
[19:07:16] <h3sp4wn> (The release version is 32 bit but doesn't use PAE so it cannot run on xvm)
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[19:07:39] <h3sp4wn> Asako: Ah sorry I thought you ment domU
[19:07:56] <Asako> but I'll just stick with solaris
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[19:12:34] <Acidic32> hi
[19:12:40] <Acidic32> how can i set the default gateway?
[19:12:48] <TomJ> route add default <gatewayip>
[19:12:54] <TomJ> echo gatewayip > /etc/defaultrouter
[19:13:06] <TomJ> the former for now, the latter for on boot
[19:13:16] <Asako> wonder if windows will install this time
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[19:15:03] <Asako> can zvols be resized?
[19:15:31] <consanguinity> no, but they can be created sparsely
[19:15:53] <Asako> just wondering in case I need to add space later
[19:16:23] <Acidic32> k
[19:16:25] <Acidic32> thx
[19:16:58] <Acidic32> it says Network unrechable
[19:17:05] <Acidic32> im running in Vbox
[19:17:40] <Acidic32> it can access my lan pc's
[19:17:42] <Acidic32> fine
[19:18:01] <TomJ> Acidic32: what is your LAN IP and what gateway IP are you specifying?
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[19:19:14] <Acidic32> 192.168.1.2 gateway: 192.168.1.254
[19:19:30] <TomJ> and you can ping 192.168.1.254 ?
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[19:21:06] <CosmicDJ> Teo`: is that you -> "Sunday morning's first lecture was by Theo Schlossnagle about Reconnoiter" http://www.reedmedia.net/~reed/journal/2008/20081012.html
[19:21:29] <Teo`> CosmicDJ: nope
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[19:22:10] <holcomb> theo schlossnagle = postwait
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[19:22:45] <Asako> ok, server 2003 refuses to install
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[19:25:04] <Asako> I haven't had much luck with xVM
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[19:30:15] <CosmicDJ> Asako: well then do what everybody else does, use VMWare ;)
[19:32:46] <madwizard> :)
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[19:33:16] <Asako> on solaris?
[19:33:29] <Asako> xVM is a sun product, it should work
[19:34:05] <CosmicDJ> VMWare is an EM^2 product, it *does* work
[19:34:08] <CosmicDJ> EMC
[19:34:17] <Asako> I'd consider it except the license fees
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[19:35:54] <madwizard> Server ESXi is for free
[19:36:00] <madwizard> Server 2.X the same
[19:36:02] <Asako> cool
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[19:36:49] <madwizard> More elaborate products are paid for, but then so far xVM gives you nothing bettyer than what you can have for free from VMWare
[19:36:56] <madwizard> And VMWare just works
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[19:37:09] <Asako> I'm sure the boss wants to use xen
[19:37:30] <madwizard> Why ?
[19:37:47] <Asako> it's what everybody else suggests
[19:38:05] <consanguinity> that's a terrible reason
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[19:38:43] <madwizard> Asako: What arguments do they have?
[19:39:43] <Asako> it's included with CentOS, we're familiar with it
[19:39:43] <johannes> I plan to install OpenSolaris (2008.11, x64) on an USB Device how can I be sure the installer won't touch the MBR of my internal disk and only the one from the USB device?
[19:39:46] <Asako> it's free
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[19:40:55] <madwizard> Asako: VMWare Server (ESXi) are also free. They have nice graphical interfaces and many features that xVM lack so far (IIRC). Snapshots and such
[19:40:58] <Asako> right now we use virtuozzo
[19:41:31] <Asako> I guess I could put together a demo using vmware
[19:41:49] <madwizard> Also, VMWare Server ESXi is lighter when it comes to hypevisor
[19:42:06] <Asako> is ESXi like its own OS?
[19:42:14] <madwizard> I'm pretty sure, you can't get the same small memory footprint of xVM based hypervisor
[19:42:20] <consanguinity> Asako: yes
[19:42:20] <madwizard> Asako: Cut down Linux
[19:42:33] <Asako> ok
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[19:43:08] <consanguinity> although i thought ESXi was the version that's installed on flash cards or whatever
[19:43:26] <madwizard> consanguinity: I know people that use it on your every day hdds :)
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[19:44:04] <Asako> and people were saying xen would kill vmware
[19:44:24] <consanguinity> haha.. did you ever use xen?
[19:44:31] <Asako> I've used it for a while
[19:45:34] <Asako> worked fine with centos 4
[19:45:45] <madwizard> consanguinity: He said, he knows xen. Just never used VMWare
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[19:51:25] <Asako> we're also trying to go with a home grown solution
[19:51:50] <tavis> TomJ:  Did some more reading.  Understand why the syntax is the way it is now.  Thanks for your help.  Really appreciate it!!
[19:52:17] <TomJ> tavis: no worries
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[19:53:02] <tavis> TomJ:  Have you ever used opensolaris as an nfs target for vmware?
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[19:54:09] <Asako> crap
[19:54:09] <TomJ> no, never put vmware on NFS before
[19:54:18] <Asako> I can't really use linux because iscsi makes it kernel panic
[19:54:31] <TomJ> (and I dont use OpenSolaris, only Solaris 10 and SXCE - though the principles and technology would be nearly all the same)
[19:55:36] <tavis> TomJ:  Curious benefits of SXCE and Sol10 vs opensolaris?
[19:55:49] <Asako> hey, the EULA for vmware server kills it for us
[19:56:03] <TomJ> benefits of Solaris 10 is that it's production code
[19:56:10] <TomJ> benefits of SXCE is it's mostlyt like Solaris 10
[19:56:18] <TomJ> OpenSolaris being a preview of a desktopy OS
[19:56:25] <TomJ> though I gather 2008.11 will be a bit more polished
[19:56:40] <Asako> provided such services may not consist of services to a third party that provide primarily computing or processing power (such as utility computing or grid computing) or any computer application-based service that is traded, rented, leased or sold on a Virtual Machine basis;
[19:56:46] <Asako> that's all we do, we're a web host
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[19:57:10] <TomJ> Asako: if it's your business, then ESX isn't so expensive
[19:57:24] <Asako> ESX sounds neat
[19:57:39] <TomJ> and far more polished than xvm/xen
[19:57:41] <trygvis> damn it, is it not possible to mount datasets before installling the zone?
[19:57:42] <Asako> we're trying to get away from buying licenses
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[19:58:40] <CIA-34> Rafael Vanoni Polanczyk <Rafael.Vanoni at Sun dot COM>: PSARC 2007/598 ptime(1) Improvements, 6234106 ptime should report microseconds or nanoseconds instead of just milliseconds, 4532599 ptime should report resource usage statistics from /proc for running processes, Contributed by Chad Mynhier <cmynhier at gmail dot com>
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[20:02:14] <tavis> TomJ:  i have read alot of ppl saying that in practice the speed difference between mirror and raidz is negligable even with random I/O.  Do you have any practical experience in this area?
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[20:05:11] <WelcomeToMyHome> hi, all
[20:05:38] <WelcomeToMyHome> someone knows how to start networkmanager with open solaris???
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[20:15:13] <tavis> TomJ:  Would you recommend we run Solaris 10 over opensolaris for a backup/nearline storage server?
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[20:16:41] <CosmicDJ> tavis: have money for a support contract, sure use sol10
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[20:17:58] <tavis> CosmicDJ:  Well i guess if we need it we have the option.  Not so with opensolaris or SXCE correct?
[20:18:52] <CosmicDJ> tavis: well someone @ sun can hold your hand when smth goes wrong, not so w/ opensolaris...
[20:19:50] <tavis> CosmicDJ:  how about SXCE? Is support available?
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[20:22:35] <CosmicDJ> sxce = opensolaris for me
[20:23:11] <tavis> CosmicDJ:  does sol10 u6 support xfs boot?
[20:23:19] <consanguinity> if you mean zfs, yes
[20:23:20] <tavis> CosmicDJ:  sorry lol
[20:23:27] <tavis> CosmicDJ:  yes zfs
[20:24:22] <tavis> any big differences or reasons/features to justify going with opensolaris 101a vs sol10 u6?
[20:24:24] <TomJ> tavis: I have never benchmarked raid 10 versus raid 5/6 but my understanding is that hte former should always outperform the latter, usually by a fair margin
[20:24:53] <TomJ> tavis: integrated CIFS (windows file sharing) is one headline item, though I cant get it to work usably myself
[20:25:16] <TomJ> nicer desktop experience, more software/utils/toys provided with it
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[20:25:51] <CosmicDJ> newer dtrace...
[20:25:55] <e^ipi> TomJ, it works fine.
[20:26:01] <e^ipi> you just need to set up PAM to handle it
[20:26:08] <CosmicDJ> zfs with more options...
[20:26:28] <TomJ> e^ipi: I can get it to work. just not usably.  I have about 300 zfs filesystems,  from Windows I have to map each and every one to a drive letter, it's not possible to map the top level and then transcend
[20:26:31] <e^ipi> & recognize that it uses correct ACL's rather than the best security 1965 had to offer
[20:26:47] <TomJ> so I can either have 300 drive letters, or not lots of zfs filesystems, but seemingly not both
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[20:27:22] * e^ipi blames windows' retarded "drive letter" scheme
[20:27:39] <tavis> TomJ:  That has been my experience as well but every with RAID 10 vs 5.  We do alot of oracle implementations for insurance companies.  I have been reading and blogs/testers say they can't see any difference with raidz/zfs vs mirror/zfs.
[20:27:57] <consanguinity> since the point of CIFS is Windows clients, saying "it's windows' fault it sucks" is hardly a solution
[20:28:09] <e^ipi> didn't say it was a solution
[20:28:15] <TomJ> e^ipi: I can map one drive letter to the top top of my ZFS system, e.g. tank.  it's then Solaris that prevents me openining tank/data, not Windows
[20:28:25] <e^ipi> just that if they had chosen a more sane scheme the problem wouldn't exist
[20:28:31] <TomJ> yes, yes it would.
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[20:28:37] <e^ipi> but yes, it should probably share sub filesystems
[20:28:52] <TomJ> same issue applies to NFS though it hasn't hurt me there yet, though I did have to do some funky automounting stuff
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[20:29:25] <tavis> TomJ: e.g.  http://blogs.sun.com/rarneson/entry/the_x4500_zfs_and_vmware
[20:29:29] <jbk> tank and tank/data are separate filesystems
[20:29:30] <consanguinity> TomJ: i heard (not verified) that if your nfs clients support nfsv4 referrals, that problem is lessened
[20:29:37] <consanguinity> TomJ: since it will mount the subfilesystem automatically
[20:29:47] <jbk> each with its own possible share settings, etc.
[20:29:47] <e^ipi> though it does make it difficult to solve the problem that if you have fighterjet/foo ( tank is overrated ) mounted to /a and fighterjet/foo/bar mounted to /b putting 'b' as a subdir of 'a' doesn't make much sense
[20:30:04] <e^ipi> yes, what jbk said
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[20:30:10] <consanguinity> TomJ: unfortunately, like with ACLs, it's no solution if you need to support linux clients (because their nfs4 sucks / is incomplete)
[20:30:39] <TomJ> jbk: I understand, but there needs to be some middle ground for when wants both lots of fileystems and them all to be shared as one.   I want lots of filesystems for reasons other than sharing, but the ability-to-share-them-independently totally gets in the way of that
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[20:30:59] <TomJ> consanguinity: well I mount from Solaris 10 to Solaris 10, and I have to use the automounter to get them all loaded. that does work OK , it's just a bit of hassle
[20:31:12] <jbk> i don't know about cifs, but that's actually a very hard problem
[20:31:19] <e^ipi> perhaps some scheme such that if mountpoint is inherited and the fs is shared, it just shows up as a directory perhaps?
[20:31:22] <jbk> each filesystem has it's own inode space
[20:31:37] <Aria> Yeah. There'd have to be inode mapping.
[20:31:46] <TomJ> I thought ZFS didnt have inodes?
[20:31:54] <jbk> well they're called znodes
[20:32:01] <jbk> but same idea
[20:32:07] <consanguinity> TomJ: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/nfs-namespace/ .. snv_77, might not have made it back into S10
[20:32:22] <tavis> does solaris 10 u6 include CIFS?
[20:32:23] <jbk> generally you have 'filename' -> filesystem_identifier
[20:32:28] <consanguinity> tavis: no
[20:32:33] <TomJ> ah, that looks perfect consanguinity
[20:32:52] <jbk> 'filesystem_identifier' is only guaranteed to be unique within a single filesystem
[20:33:37] <jbk> though i thought newer versions of windows supported something similar to mount points (instead of drive letters)
[20:33:48] <Asako> they do
[20:33:57] <Asako> not sure if it's supported for network drives
[20:34:03] <TomJ> anyway I'm sure it's complex, it's just a big shame for CIFS because it vastly limits the usefulness for me.  I'd far rather just use Samba and still be able to have lots of ZFS filesystems, which is what I'm doing now
[20:34:43] <Asako> like my 2nd drive is c:\stuff
[20:34:54] <jbk> i don't know enough about the actual cifs protocol to know how difficult that'd be to do
[20:35:24] <TomJ> incidentally, there's a workaround from the Windows end which is not to map to a drive letter, but just to browse with UNC paths, like  //solaris_server/tank  //solaris_server/tank/data - that does work OK, cos I guess Windows is transparently hopping from one share to another
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[20:35:33] <TomJ> I suppose that could work long term, just not use drive letters at all
[20:35:48] <consanguinity> TomJ: does that work if you start in \tank and 'cd data'?
[20:36:11] <TomJ> consanguinity: well if you open //solaris_server/tank  you will see 'data' which you know is a ZFS filesystem, and you double click on it and it opens fine
[20:36:21] <TomJ> whereas if you map  //solaris_server/tank to , say, M:  then double click on data, you get a permission error
[20:36:27] <consanguinity> curious
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[20:36:39] <consanguinity> i would understand an empty folder, but permissions error sounds like it could be a bug somewhere
[20:36:55] <trygvis> will zoneadm only mount "fs" resources before installing?
[20:37:02] <TomJ> i cant remember the exact error, might not have been permissions, but something with the gist of 'cant mount this'
[20:37:55] <TomJ> so the act of mapping to a dirve letter locks you to a given FS in a way that just browsing does not. it's strange, and does make me wonder if there's just a simple workaround for the 'mapped' mode that would allow this, perhaps along the lines of what they're doing with NFS
[20:38:31] <consanguinity> i wonder if CIFS just remounts the directory every time when you use UNC paths
[20:39:12] <TomJ> but I do think they need to do something before this is production though, I dont think it's such a viable product right now.   people are used to having, e.g.  S: for sales, then  S:\Reports  S:\Proposals  S:\DoneDeals or whatever, and there are huge benefits to each being its own ZFS filesystem.  but no-one is going to like not being able to have them under a single drive letter
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[20:43:12] <Aria> Very much so, TomJ
[20:43:36] <consanguinity> TomJ: did you already ask whatever list cifs is discussed on about the problem?
[20:43:49] <TomJ> no I didnt, just googled enough to discover others saw the same thing
[20:43:59] <TomJ> frankly it's no big deal for me, I only wanted it for my home media :)
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[20:44:28] <tavis> can you both nfs and cifs share the same mountpoint?
[20:44:37] <TomJ> tavis: yes
[20:45:06] <TomJ> in my case I just switched back to Samba, which works a charm and doesnt care whether there are different ZFS filesystems or not
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[20:45:25] <TomJ> i'm sure they'll do something before CIFS hits Solaris, which probably wont be for a while
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[20:48:37] <Asako> if enough people complain about it
[20:49:49] <tavis> samba is fine on solaris 10 though correct?
[20:50:25] <consanguinity> yes
[20:51:10] <TomJ> yes it's part of a full install
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[20:52:06] <tavis> sounds like that might be the way to go for now anyways.
[20:53:22] <e^ipi> only if you're an edge case like TomJ
[20:53:33] <consanguinity> using ZFS in the way it's meant to be used = edge case ;)
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[20:53:46] <e^ipi> :P
[20:54:04] <e^ipi> if all you need is a pit for windows machines to dump stuff, the cifs sharing already in the system is fine
[20:54:52] <consanguinity> i never had that problem because i don't use hundreds of ZFS filesystems anyway (like ~3, which i mapped to I: J: and K:...), but linux clients not being able to see permissions on files created from windows was annoying
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[20:56:47] <TomJ> ha, you have a very small opinion of ZFS if you think having lots of filesystems is an edge case, e^ipi
[20:57:03] <TomJ> I believe the blurb talks about making thousands of them
[20:57:15] <e^ipi> no, trying to share a whole lot of them hierarchically via cifs is an edge case
[20:57:18] <e^ipi> having them isn't
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[20:58:31] <TomJ> that statement is contradictory. the point of ZFS is to have a lot of filesystems hierarchically. therefore it follows that if you are sharing any, you want to share a lot.  because if data/sales is a share, then so is data/sales/reports,  data/sales/reports/2001, data/sales/reports/2002 etc.
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[20:59:08] <consanguinity> TomJ: as someone who uses a lot of filesystems, did you ever think it would be nice to have a way to make 'mkdir' in a certain filesystem/directory actually create a new fs?
[20:59:18] <TomJ> consanguinity: absolutely, I would LOVE that
[20:59:36] <codestr0m> does anyone know if the SSX release that's included with os2008* gets updates.. for example when 11/08 is released if that'll end up getting packaged?
[20:59:40] <TomJ> like a property on a filesystem that says "can't make directories here", either to block that completely, or to force it to make a fs instead
[20:59:50] <TomJ> i'm forever moving stuff around so I can make a FS and then move it back
[21:00:00] <TomJ> it might be complex/difficult to implement though, so Im not holding my breath
[21:00:01] <consanguinity> i had this problem also
[21:00:09] <consanguinity> but when i suggested it here, everyone seemed to hate it
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[21:00:40] <e^ipi> i don't think it's a bad idea in general but i dunno that i would want to make that the default behavior
[21:00:46] <TomJ> it would be hugely beneficial in some places.  like,  data/users  where I want every user's directory to be a share, and there's really no use case I can think of where I'd want a non-sahre directory created there
[21:01:00] <TomJ> definitely not default no, just configurable as desired
[21:01:12] <e^ipi> 'mkdir -z' or something
[21:01:48] <e^ipi> or as a filesystem property ( zfs set subdirs=fs *shrug* )
[21:01:52] <consanguinity> e^ipi: i'm thinking of mkdirs over cifs/nfs here too, so i'd rather have a filesystem property than a mkdir flag
[21:01:55] <tavis> i can't seem to enable the cifs service. svcadm enable -r smb/server
[21:01:57] <tavis> svcadm: svc:/milestone/network depends on svc:/network/physical, which has multiple instances.
[21:01:58] <consanguinity> (so you could set it on, say, /home)
[21:02:03] <TomJ> or to go one step further, configurable event handlers on filesystems :)  to fire a script/binary/something every time an action occurs within a FS, like make a directory, create a file, etc.   :)
[21:02:24] <consanguinity> incidentally, i heard CIFS mkdirs can create snapshots now
[21:02:24] <tavis> i have rebooted after installing the services
[21:02:31] <e^ipi> i'd be more interested in seeing useradd create filesystems
[21:02:34] <consanguinity> (by creating a directory inside snapshots, or something)
[21:02:59] <Asako> same here, every user has their own FS
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[21:04:30] <tavis> maintenance    14:50:58 svc:/network/smb/server:default
[21:04:52] <e^ipi> tavis, the log file will typically tell you why something is failing
[21:05:14] <e^ipi> IRC generally will not.
[21:05:37] <consanguinity> e^ipi: yes it is... you just need to /set mindread on
[21:05:58] <h3sp4wn> Does a SXCE iso exist anywhere for b101a (want to try crossbow but the bfu archives are only for b101a and using b101 I have strange issues)
[21:05:59] <CosmicDJ> are take a deep look inside your crystall ball
[21:06:16] <tavis> i checked the syslog
[21:06:19] <e^ipi> h3sp4wn, isn't the version posted on dlc 101a
[21:06:30] <e^ipi> tavis, ... the logfile... not syslog...
[21:06:58] <e^ipi> svcs tells you /exactly/ where to look
[21:07:33] <tavis> i get that.... i am new to solaris.  I was asking for a pointer in the right direction.
[21:07:43] <tavis> ok thanks
[21:07:44] <CosmicDJ> svcs -xv
[21:08:10] <Asako> any way to make iscsi targets only show on a certain IP?
[21:08:11] <h3sp4wn> e^ipi: Doesn't look like it (at least in the past it was in the title) I will see if the md5's have changed from before
[21:08:27] <tavis> Thanks Cosmic
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[21:09:52] <h3sp4wn> e^ipi: same as before still b101 (md5sum's match)
[21:10:13] <e^ipi> huh
[21:10:24] <e^ipi> that's kinna silly
[21:11:20] <FrostCS> ;-)
[21:11:27] <Berny> lo frosty
[21:11:40] <FrostCS> hello Berny
[21:11:42] <h3sp4wn> Its annoying unless its expected that those bfu archives are used on indiana
[21:11:51] <FrostCS> yea, when they pulled 102, I think they forgot to put 101a back
[21:12:03] <Berny> how's things frosty?
[21:12:22] <FrostCS> hectic as usual, but not so all so bad ;-)
[21:12:35] <FrostCS> how about you?
[21:13:17] <Berny> alive and fighting ;-)
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[21:13:49] <FrostCS> you were about to move a while back right?
[21:14:09] <Berny> still planning on that :-)
[21:14:30] <FrostCS> ahh ;-)
[21:14:31] <Berny> or rephrase to "will move in about 3 years"
[21:14:51] <FrostCS> 3 years? I thought it was supposed to be sooner than that ;-)
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[21:15:22] <Berny> finally found a nice kindergarten place for our daughter... so next possible time to move is when she starts school
[21:15:46] <Berny> it's completely insane what you go through when you try to find a decent kindergarten
[21:16:01] <FrostCS> ah, and not moving sooner because you like where you are at?
[21:16:19] <FrostCS> not changing jobs though right? just moving?
[21:16:48] <Berny> not quite... but it takes a while for kids to get used to new environments... so we're not changing kindergarten if we can avoid it
[21:17:11] <Berny> yeah job is still the same and will be for much longer ;-)
[21:17:41] <FrostCS> make those windows admins scatter...
[21:17:42] <tavis> CosmicDJ: wow that is a great command. Helped me find my problem with cifs service starting.  http://opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=273775
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[21:18:18] <Berny> yeah!
[21:18:20] <Berny> crap!
[21:18:44] <Berny> why the heck doesn't that freakin t100 boot of a fc/al hba?
[21:19:37] <Berny> is there a reason why i cannot boot of a 3510 connected to a qlc hba?
[21:19:42] <TomJ> tavis: it seems a shame that ESX can only talk NFSv3
[21:20:01] <Berny> host, hba and 3510 all on current firmware revs
[21:20:15] <Berny> "ERROR: /pci@780/SUNW,qlc@0,1: Last Trap: Fast Data Access MMU Miss"
[21:23:38] <tavis> TomJ:  Indeed.  From what i understand it works VERY VERY well.
[21:24:22] <tavis> TomJ:  We are just testing it with our ESX farm now.   I am interested to see how it compares to our FC san
[21:24:39] <consanguinity> TomJ: what exactly does ESX use NFS for?
[21:24:58] <tavis> Storage target
[21:25:02] <TomJ> tavis: bear in mind the x4500 only has SATA disks, though if you have not many disks in your FC san or they are really old it could still be faster I guess
[21:25:05] <FrostCS> Berny, heh, google comes up with dozens of weird answers :-P
[21:25:08] <TomJ> consanguinity: saving the virtual machines on
[21:25:13] <consanguinity> hm.. what's the advantage of v4 over v3 there?
[21:25:24] <TomJ> I thought v4 had performance improvements
[21:25:31] <TomJ> though I dont know details
[21:25:33] <tavis> for vm, templates, isos etc
[21:25:45] <Berny> FrostCS, been there... got confused...
[21:25:51] <Berny> waaaahhh!
[21:26:07] <FrostCS> good time to use that support # :-P
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[21:26:14] <FrostCS> let them work it out lol
[21:26:15] <Berny> it boots when i use boot -v
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[21:26:41] <victori> what is up with the e1000g driver with all revisions above snv98?  instability galore
[21:27:46] <tavis> consanguinity: we are going to use it *for sure* for templates and ISOs etc.  I am curious to see what the perfomance is like as a storage target for running virtual disks though.  Might be fine for some of our dev enviroments.
[21:28:22] <FrostCS> Berny, it is mentioned in the ldoms release notes for some reason, not sure if it would pertain to your problem.
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[21:28:43] <quasi> victori: not seeing that here
[21:28:51] <Berny> FrostCS, url? though i have no ldoms on that box...
[21:29:09] <FrostCS> Berny, http://docs.sun.com/source/819-6429-11/LDoms_RR_RelNotes.html
[21:29:18] <victori> I remember updating our staging server to 101 a week ago, it kept rebooting left and right once a little traffic hit it
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[21:29:29] <FrostCS> shrug, this is the only thing that is partially readable :-P
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[21:29:38] <victori> that and the new zones dataset breakage sucks
[21:29:53] <quasi> victori: no problems like that for me - also on 101
[21:30:09] <victori> quasi: how much load to you put on it? server?
[21:30:18] <quasi> victori: nope
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[21:30:23] <victori> exactly
[21:30:27] <victori> it runs fine without much load
[21:31:02] <victori> throw some web traffic at it and it falls apart
[21:31:42] <TomJ> victori: why do you run an important server/service on sxce?
[21:31:47] <victori> oh well snv98 is relativity stable here, only kernel panics once a month due to e1000g driver
[21:31:50] <TomJ> is there some feature you need?
[21:32:37] <victori> TomJ:  zfs root for mirroring
[21:32:49] <TomJ> I'd go straight to Solaris 10 U6 then
[21:32:53] <quasi> victori: got that in u6
[21:33:01] <victori> when this was setup there was none
[21:33:18] <victori> snv86~
[21:33:34] <victori> and pkg is nice
[21:33:43] <Berny> FrostCS, hmm thats not really related :-\
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[21:34:04] <TomJ> i didnt think sxce had pkg?
[21:34:07] <Berny> oh well time to log a case
[21:34:48] <FrostCS> Berny, as close as I could get ;-) it's support time :-P
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[21:34:55] <codestr0m> anyone with a fully updates os2008* able to tell me what cc -V gives?
[21:34:56] <codestr0m> thanks
[21:35:03] <victori> TomJ:  the indiana pkg manager not the standard pkg
[21:35:56] <xRaich[o]2x> codestr0m: cc: Sun Ceres C 5.10 SunOS_i386 2008/10/22
[21:35:56] <xRaich[o]2x> usage: cc [ options] files.  Use 'cc -flags' for details
[21:36:34] <codestr0m> xRaich[o]2x: that's the included sunstudioexpress and not a patched SS12 right?
[21:37:09] <holcomb> 5.10 = studio express
[21:37:30] <codestr0m> holcomb: ok. missed that and was just looking at the date
[21:40:40] <consanguinity> mmm, awesome 140KB/sec from sdlc
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[21:52:42] <tavis> TomJ:  can you give me a pointer to where to look for nfs logging on solaris?  i checked /var/svc/log/network-nfs-server:default.log
[21:53:42] <CosmicDJ> what do you think is worth logging with nfs?
[21:54:35] <tavis> CosmicDJ:  I can't connect from a client.  Is that logged somewhere on the sever?
[21:55:44] <tavis> i added the ip using zfs set sharenfs=root=IP
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[22:00:17] <CosmicDJ> try running mountd with -v
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[22:04:16] <tavis> CosmicDJ:  mountd or mount?
[22:04:30] <CosmicDJ> mountd
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[22:06:03] <TomJ> I normally do:  zfs set sharenfs=ro=-,rw=IP,root=IP
[22:06:15] <TomJ> meaning read only to no-one, readwrite and root to IP
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[22:06:49] <tavis> CosmicDJ:  sorry i am a newb.  i can't find the mountd in /usr/sbin or /usr/bin.  I must be missing something
[22:07:08] <TomJ> man mountd will tell yuou where it is
[22:07:13] <TomJ> /usr/lib/nfs/mountd in this case
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[22:07:38] <tavis> TomJ:  ty
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[22:09:52] <tavis> TomJ:  logs to console?
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[22:10:07] <TomJ> I think there's a separate loggin daemon for nfs
[22:10:56] <TomJ> might be wrong though
[22:11:03] <TomJ> you're best off reading the Solaris Administratin Guide on NFS
[22:11:48] <dsch04> Evening all
[22:12:05] <dsch04> I'm finally getting round to re-building my home NAS
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[22:12:42] <dsch04> I previously used Nevada; I'm wondering whether Solaris 10 10/08 might be a good option?
[22:13:06] <dsch04> How recent is the zfs code in 10/08 ?
[22:13:15] <consanguinity> dsch04: based on snv_88
[22:13:24] <dsch04> OK
[22:14:34] <tavis> TomJ:  got the guide.  Thanks again
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[22:15:07] <dsch04> I see nevada is up to b101 - anything good happened recently?
[22:15:23] <tavis> TomJ:  i used the zfs set sharenfs=ro=-,rw=IP,root=IP exactly as you have it spelled out there.
[22:15:45] <TomJ> but replacing IP wit hteh actual IP address?
[22:16:13] <tavis> TomJ:  Yes!  I am a solaris newb.  Not a complete newb ;)
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[22:32:11] <tavis> TomJ:  are there any other steps other than the zfs set sharenfs?
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[22:36:41] <tavis> TomJ:  i ran zfs set sharenfs=ro=-,rw=any,root=any and i still get "mount.nfs: access denied by server"
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[22:39:10] <CosmicDJ> is any an hostname?
[22:42:12] <tavis> CosmicDJ:  no.
[22:42:17] * Acidic32 is going bed, night!
[22:42:18] <CosmicDJ> ah well, it's been ages since I last nfs shared an zfs...
[22:42:23] <CosmicDJ> gn8 too
[22:42:45] <tavis> CosmicDJ:  it is a wildcard
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[22:43:33] <tavis> CosmicDJ:  showmount -e shows everyone can access it.. still get access denied
[22:43:41] <TomJ> are you in the same NFS domain?
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[22:44:20] <tavis> TomJ:  as in NIS domain?  We don't use NIS.
[22:44:33] <TomJ> no, NFS domain
[22:44:36] <TomJ> maybe that's just a NFSv4 thing, not sure
[22:44:50] <TomJ> I can't see any reference to the wildcard 'any' in share_nfs
[22:44:55] <TheK> hello! Does anyone here successfully use OSS with intel audio hd ? What magic did you use and can I borrow some? :)
[22:44:58] <tavis> rpcinfo only shows version 2 and version 3 listening
[22:45:26] <TomJ> try:  zfs set sharenfs=off tank/blah
[22:45:30] <TomJ> then zfs set sharenfs=on tank/blah
[22:45:42] <TomJ> that should just allow anyone to mount it
[22:46:14] <h3sp4wn> TheK: Works fine here (other than with current hg I have to do - pfexec soundoff && pfexec soundon) otherwise vmix doesn't get loaded and oss_usb becomes the primary card and when sadasupport is used then the box hardlocks (similar issue ?)
[22:47:46] <tavis> TomJ:  ok will try
[22:48:06] <tavis> TomJ:  can you wildcard at all?  ie for a /24 subnet?
[22:48:15] <TomJ> @192.168.10.0/24
[22:48:21] <TomJ> man share_nfs for all options
[22:48:39] <tavis> TomJ: thank you sir!
[22:49:44] <TheK> h3ap4wn: I used audiohd http://gdamore.blogspot.com/2008/07/new-experimental-audiohd-driver.html to get sound for my system.m When I downloaded and installed the 4Front OSS package, I lost all sound.
[22:50:38] <TheK> h3ap4wn: uninstalling audiohd and just trying 4front OSS driver didn't work either. The "volume icon" was disabled and no application could make any sound.
[22:51:02] <prav33n> TheK, I use hdaudio (OSS)
[22:51:02] <h3sp4wn> TheK: To use OSS you need to use 4fronts drivers - otherwise you just use /dev/audio (sun sada)
[22:51:54] <TheK> h3sp4wn: Do you use GNOME as well? Is there a trick to get 4front drivers to be detected?
[22:51:57] <h3sp4wn> TheK: With 4front you use ossxmix or ossmix - you can build a gstreamer-plugin (from the bad set) if you want
[22:52:15] <TheK> prav33n: IS hdaudio 4front drivers?
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[22:52:29] <prav33n> TheK, What is your sound hardware?
[22:52:53] <h3sp4wn> TheK: The way I used to use was rebuilding SUNWgnome-audio / SUNWgnome-media{,apps,player}
[22:53:03] <TheK> prav33n: Intel 82801jl ICH10 fam. audio hd controller
[22:53:05] <h3sp4wn> But now I just play everything through moplayer
[22:53:22] <h3sp4wn> The system sounds just annoy me anyway
[22:53:29] <prav33n> hdaudio is the driver from 4Front
[22:53:46] <h3sp4wn> oss_hdaudio in at least 4.1 hg
[22:54:45] <prav33n> TheK, I have almost the same hardware
[22:55:11] <prav33n> Downloading the hdaudio driver from http://www.opensound.com/oss.html and installing it made my sound card work
[22:55:27] <prav33n> TheK, There is no other additional trick required
[22:55:32] <TheK> h3sp4wn: Rebuilding gnome sounds like too much work. I was hoping on getting openmovieeditor to work.. It felt like I had the last component found in the config list when I disovered after reboot that sound didn't work :-/
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[22:56:20] <TheK> prav33n: Are you using GNOME? Did you have to rebuild anything? It looks like the oss drivers work.. but of course I might need to replace the default mixer?
[22:56:23] <h3sp4wn> TheK: using the binary 4.0 ones or building 4.1 from mercurial ?
[22:56:37] <TheK> I downloaded the binary package.
[22:56:38] <prav33n> TheK, I am using Gnome
[22:56:50] <prav33n> TheK, I didn't have to rebuild anything
[22:56:55] <TheK> oh..
[22:57:05] <prav33n> Install the driver, logout and login again
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[22:57:08] <TheK> prav33n: I should try again then.
[22:57:15] <h3sp4wn> You don't have to rebuild anything it works better if you do though
[22:57:26] <prav33n> I am using OpenSolaris (Indiana)
[22:57:30] <TheK> maybe uninstall the audiohd driver first.
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[22:57:37] <TheK> I'm using Indiana svn_101
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[22:57:45] <prav33n> I think that I installed it on OpenSolaris 2008.05 (snv_86)
[22:57:47] <h3sp4wn> Indiana and 4front don't get along well
[22:57:56] <h3sp4wn> (If you want to remove it anyway)
[22:57:57] <prav33n> h3sp4wn, That is not true
[22:58:10] <prav33n> I am running Indiana and I don't have any issues
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[22:58:45] <CIA-34> Wyllys Ingersoll <Wyllys.Ingersoll at Sun dot COM>: 6756692 ugly prompt for pkcs11 token pin when using pktool, 6763087 pktool signcsr dumps core in some conditions due to uninitialized variables., 6744183 pktool doesn't accept "KPClientAuth", "KPKdc" or "scLogon" as valid ekus
[22:58:50] <h3sp4wn> prav33n: The post remove part of it normally run's some scripts to reinstate the Sun sada but they are not present on indiana
[22:59:18] <prav33n> h3sp4wn, Oh!
[22:59:37] <prav33n> Personally I haven't seen any issues
[23:00:01] <TheK> h3sp4wn: running some scripts don't sound too hard? What's a Sun sada ;=
[23:00:02] <TheK> ;)
[23:00:45] <consanguinity> TheK: SADA is what OSS calls the Solaris native audio api
[23:01:01] <gdamore> Actually, its what Sun calls it.
[23:01:18] <gdamore> "Sun Audio Device Architecture".  and it isn't the API, but rather the device driver DDI for audio drivers
[23:01:50] <TheK> ok.. just so I understand my universe, how does it relate to "boomer" ?
[23:01:56] <consanguinity> gdamore: well, OSS refers to the _API_ as SADA
[23:02:04] <gdamore> boomer replaces/supercedes *both* 4Front and SADA.
[23:02:17] <TheK> ok
[23:02:18] <gdamore> consanguinity: but OSS/4Front is wrong.
[23:02:48] <gdamore> boomer has code taken from both 4Front OSS and Sun legacy (SADA) audio.
[23:03:19] <TheK> so.. Does anyone know the guru hacking boomer? Will he work faster if he gets bribes?
[23:03:40] <gdamore> I am he.  :-)  I don't know if bribes will work, but you're welcome to try. :-)
[23:03:46] <TheK> hehe
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[23:04:17] <TheK> gdamore: maybe I will :)
[23:04:43] <TheK> Garrett D'Amore ?
[23:04:47] <prav33n> gdamore, What will be the story for Intel on-board audio controllers on OpenSolaris 2008.11?
[23:04:48] <gdamore> heh. I think stephen lau might have some thoughts on effective bribes... ISTR he still owes me a beer.
[23:04:50] <gdamore> yes.
[23:04:59] <TheK> ok.. found you.
[23:05:01] <gdamore> audiohd is especially tricky.
[23:05:13] <prav33n> gdamore, Should we use 4Front drivers even in 2008.11 release?
[23:05:19] <gdamore> particularly because the spec allows *so* many implementation choices from board/device vendors
[23:05:31] <gdamore> I would steer clear of 4Front if you have a choice.
[23:05:45] <vmlemon_> Why?
[23:05:58] <gdamore> there will be upgrade pain associated, and ... um... I've been in the code.  i can't say much more than that.
[23:05:58] <vmlemon_> Their OSS 4.0 for Linux is rock solid
[23:06:16] <vmlemon_> Although it seems that they timebomb the drivers
[23:06:18] <gdamore> For Linux, it probably is.  They are Linux gurus.  But the stuff doesn't work nearly as well on Solaris.
[23:06:24] <gdamore> Yes.
[23:06:24] <vmlemon_> True
[23:06:37] <vmlemon_> Although I removed the timebomb code from my copy ;)
[23:06:44] <prav33n> gdamore, Is the roadmap for Boomer available somewhere?
[23:06:53] <gdamore> PSARC 2008/318 has some details.
[23:06:55] <vmlemon_> (After spending about 3 hours looking for it)
[23:07:07] <gdamore> other than that, you can ask me.
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[23:07:34] <gdamore> i hope to have an initial code release for external beta testing in early december.  (we're going to miss thanksgiving, which was my original goal.)
[23:08:03] <gdamore> fwiw, a few of us internally have been using boomer on our desktops.  so its not entirely vaporware.
[23:09:00] <gdamore> i expect a pretty full featured release of boomer in the next (post 2008.11) release of OpenSolaris.
[23:09:02] <TheK> yay! christmas and santa turns out to be garett
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[23:09:52] <gdamore> the best way to ensure your device(s) are supported (for audiohd/hdaudio users) is to try out the latest bits in ON and SXCE 103 (when it comes out).
[23:10:23] <gdamore> while that release isn't boomer based, the specific audiohd driver is the basis for the audiohd driver in boomer.
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[23:11:35] <prav33n> audiohd/hdaudio names are always confusing to me
[23:11:40] <TheK> gdamore: So, do you think there is a media vision for OpenSolaris yet? The sound system certainly is a great step forward.
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[23:12:18] <gdamore> I am not able to comment on any other portions of the multimedia layer.  But you might ask yourself *why* Sun is investing in the audio stack.
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[23:12:39] <TheK> :)
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[23:13:12] <vmlemon_> They might *gasp* have a single, working audio stack, as opposed to the awful hodgepodge on Linux? ;)
[23:13:26] <gdamore> *that* much is _my_ vision.
[23:13:55] <vmlemon_> (Which may or may not work, depending on lunar phase, kernel version and how much milk you added to your coffee) ;)
[23:13:57] <gdamore> one common bottom layer, supporting whatever APIs we need.  with modern 7.1 (maybe someday 10.2?) high def rates, etc.
[23:14:50] <gdamore> the 4Front code is especially goofy in that they seem to almost abandon old drivers... they update their stack, but the old drivers are left behind... and so they have to retain a lot of compat. cruft for the old drivers, and they don't get new features that could have for little effort.
[23:15:13] <gdamore> right now Solaris has, not including Boomer, 3 audio stacks.
[23:15:20] <vmlemon_> Ugh
[23:15:25] <gdamore> SADA.  4Front OSS.  Sun Ray audio.
[23:15:28] <gdamore> Boomer will replace all of them.
[23:15:33] <vmlemon_> Aah
[23:15:46] <consanguinity> why does it have such a stupid name? ;)
[23:15:58] <gdamore> Not a BSG fan, I see. :-)
[23:16:04] <vmlemon_> They could have called it BeatBox ;)
[23:16:18] <dep> BSG?
[23:16:23] <gdamore> Actually, the name is partly my fault.
[23:16:25] <TheK> it is not stupid :)  .oO( putting numbers on everything is stupid though but that's another story)
[23:16:57] <gdamore> Battlestar Galactica.  Boomer is a character from the series, and the name sounded fainly sound-related and seemed less awkward than other proposals.
[23:17:50] <TheK> gdamore: Do you know who is working the graphics angle? (wildly assuming there is a graphics angle as well)
[23:17:57] <gdamore> (Other prosals some offered were Sonic Wave, Sonic Thunder, etc... and of course we did most of the early work using "AudioNG" as the name.)
[23:18:11] <gdamore> TheK: no.
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[23:18:27] <dep> "Sonic Wave" sounds a name from the 80's
[23:18:36] <gdamore> Graphics is mostly supported by the actual chip vendors -- Nvidia, Intel, and (ugh) ATI.
[23:18:43] <TheK> why?
[23:18:50] <TheK> what could they possibly gain from that?
[23:18:54] <gdamore> There is also the whole bit of OpenGL, that is standardized.
[23:19:18] <gdamore> they keep their chip specs proprietary that way.  those bits are (except Intel) closed source
[23:19:20] <TheK> OpenGL is not good enough.. you need something like rare or directx.
[23:19:32] <TheK> ie. primitives + high level stuff.
[23:20:16] <gdamore> inventing new APIs here is not necessarily a good thing, unless you get all the vendors on board with it.   And that usually means involving Linux and the X11 folks as well.
[23:20:33] <gdamore> because until you achieve that, nobody will write apps to use the new APIs.
[23:21:04] <TheK> yes, I agree.
[23:21:49] <gdamore> I'm not enough of an expert to understand where OpenGL fails to offer sufficient support... apart from some video related bits such as supported by Xvideo.
[23:23:09] <TheK> me neither.. I've just talked to alot of graphic developers and they favor directx over opengl. Maybe it is because you also get the lib which comes with directx, directsound, directshow, ...
[23:23:48] <gdamore> on Windows, I expect DirectX is a superior alternative.  That doesn't mean that we need something like it for X11 though.
[23:24:08] <dep> Until recently, I frequently heard the opposite.
[23:24:24] <TheK> dep: opposite of what?
[23:25:47] <dep> That OpenGL was nicer than directx.  However with the recent versions, DirectX took a lot of stuff that had been optional and made it required, which simplified things considerably for developers (less permutations to handle and support).
[23:27:29] <dep> But this is all second-hand; it's been years since I've used a 3d graphics API, retained or immediate.
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[23:31:58] <TheK> dep: Maybe you're right. I talked to a few people and they were very windows oriented and maybe didn't know better. OpenGL seems very robust, maybe it is a concept of less-is-more, which makes directX more appealing, or simply the fact that it is supported well by microsoft.
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[23:32:10] <TheK> dep: For some reason games on linux suck. :)
[23:32:30] <TheK> dep: I need to blame something.
[23:32:35] <TheK> dep: What do you suggest?
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[23:34:33] <alanc> not enough Linux gamers buying games for the game companies to think it's worth devoting enough resources to make them not suck would be the primary place I'd blame
[23:34:50] <e^ipi> i remember loki
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[23:34:54] <e^ipi> loki was awesome...
[23:35:41] <alanc> but did they make enough money to stay in business?
[23:36:36] <e^ipi> they certainly did not
[23:36:38] <wereHamster> I thought they went down because of mismanagement, not lack of business
[23:36:38] <vmlemon_> Didn't they go bust?
[23:36:47] <TheK> alanc: You're right of course, but why? Linux is for free.. windows cost $$.. the difference could go to a few awesomes games. :)
[23:37:06] <TheK> alanc: It isn't like all linux users are poor.
[23:37:35] <e^ipi> wereHamster, that's one of the assessments... another is that they weren't competent enough to negotiate licensing deals that ended up with them profitable
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[23:38:00] <e^ipi> though the number of linux users has gone way up since those days, and I imagine that if someone were to try the loki thing again, it'd succeed
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[23:39:41] <coffman> hmpf
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[23:40:04] <coffman> this usb drive with a zpool goes offline sometimes
[23:40:06] <coffman> narf
[23:40:10] <TheK> e^ipi: Digital Illusion is going to launch a new game driven by in game mechanizes. That should make it possible to open source part of the game since revenue will be driven by server accounts and subscription. Maybe a hook to bootstrap on?
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[23:40:43] <TheK> merchandise
[23:40:51] <zimmermanc> is there something wrong with the sun studio install atm? can't seem to pull all the packages i need, keeps erroring :(
[23:41:01] <Archite> So, I've run into an odd issue. I've noticed that many gnome apps somewhat freeze for a moment when they get input at a rapid rate. It does not happen on apps such as xterm but I can make it happen on firefox chat and gnome-terminal. I'm running svn_101a. Any ideas?
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[23:41:51] <Archite> In fact, I had to sit here and wait 10+ seconds to be able to finishing typing this sentence
[23:41:59] <TheK> I don't actually have time to play games :) I just think they are important for OpenSolaris to be a successful desktop.
[23:42:09] <zimmermanc> Archite, memory usage?
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[23:42:25] <Archite> zimmermanc, almost nil being used
[23:42:39] <Archite> well, not much, that is to say
[23:44:47] <Archite> okay, just started checked mdb when it was happening, I guess it is so
[23:46:24] <Archite> firefox and virtualbox were killing me, heh
[23:46:43] <alanc> TheK: it doesn't matter if all Linux users are rich, when there's still 20+ times as many Windows users as Linux users, there's still a lot more money in Windows gaming
[23:46:44] <zimmermanc> not surprising
[23:46:57] <zimmermanc> firefox is a pig on my box
[23:47:06] <Archite> It was using 200MB+ on mine
[23:47:20] <zimmermanc> 460M resident 665M total atm
[23:47:22] <zimmermanc> :D
[23:48:03] <Archite> I think it's time to upgrade this beast to 4GB, 2 just isn't cutting it
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[23:48:26] <zimmermanc> ya i agree
[23:48:48] <zimmermanc> opensolaris running slower with 2gb than the same amchine did with vista, seems odd opensolaris is driving me to upgrade my ram ;)
[23:49:09] <Archite> I've been happy though. Everything works pretty well on my T61, including S3 sleep
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[23:50:36] <zimmermanc> ya it seems fine, the package manager is the biggest piece of bloat for some reason, although it's broken atm, and i won't to install sun studio :(
[23:50:59] <zimmermanc> whats the point of having a package management tool if the links to the packages are broken  :( hah
[23:52:25] <e^ipi> same as the point of anything that's broken
[23:52:31] <e^ipi> when it works, it's pretty good
[23:52:38] <Archite> I use it only sometimes,. It's coming along well though
[23:54:44] <zimmermanc> nah it is , i'm a bit confused atm by the different peripheral repos as i'm a complete newb
[23:55:02] <zimmermanc> used pkg-get a bit, kinda thinking i don't want to use it anymore. it doesn't integrate well.
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[23:56:38] <TheK> alanc: yes. Maybe it is possible to buy content providers to quickly gain market interest by investing in successful content providers? Just like what I imagine the IBM, Mercurial, SONY enterprise was successful in. Especially if content is driven by subscription like World of Warcraft, EVE, other..
[23:57:06] *** proberts_ has quit IRC
[23:58:29] <TheK> ehm.. that sentence should be shot.. but I guess you understand what I mean. :)
[23:58:43] <CIA-34> Vuong Nguyen <Vuong.Nguyen at Sun dot COM>: 6770698 ereport still sent to the root domain after an unbind event





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