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[00:00:45] <kimc> hmm.. is it true tcsh isn't in this new 2008.11 ?
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[00:02:57] <e^ipi> *shrug*
[00:03:02] <e^ipi> it'll compile anyways
[00:03:42] <xRaich[o]2x1> kimc: it's not installed by default
[00:04:26] <Doc> ok, i have a question...
[00:04:50] <Doc> actually, no. i dont.
[00:05:02] <kimc> i only knew of one way to install 2008.11 and thats thorugh the gui
[00:05:28] <kimc> xRaich: didn't see any options there
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[00:08:30] <Doc> ok, so i have a question...
[00:08:42] <kimc> how can I change my shell on this new Opensolaris 2008.11 ? :)
[00:08:49] <Doc> Sun is claiming that their new 7xx0 arrays don't have a "RAID controller"
[00:08:58] <e^ipi> well they don't
[00:09:29] <Doc> when in fact it looks to me like they simply have a "RAID controller" which just happens to be written into the Solaris kernel
[00:09:39] <Doc> (at least when using them for iSCSI/etc)
[00:09:44] <sstallion_work> Doc a controller is a piece of hardware
[00:09:51] <Doc> and the 7110 is software?
[00:10:00] <sstallion_work> and the kernel interface is most certainly not an emulated piece of hardware
[00:10:00] <Doc> strange packaging for a DVD disk
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[00:11:03] <Doc> basically they have taken a function that used to be done by an embedded controlled, moved it into the kernel, and are saying that's how it should be done!
[00:11:22] <Doc> now don't get me wrong, ZFS is better than any RAID controller I've ever seen, but...
[00:11:23] <kimc> don't miss the big live webcast at :30 past the hour: http://www.sun.com/launch/2008-1110/index.jsp
[00:12:02] <e^ipi> Doc, you're arguing semantics on marketing materials?
[00:12:11] <Doc> hey, i'm bored. ok?
[00:13:47] <Doc> EMC doesn't have a raid controller either, they just have a big whopping box!
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[00:15:29] <kimc> how about Netapp? raid controller?
[00:16:31] <Doc> i think they just use superglue
[00:16:35] <kimc> heh
[00:16:44] <kimc> they have a lawsuit
[00:17:18] <Doc> there's not much you can't do with superglue
[00:17:22] <sstallion_work> Doc: ZFS has infinitely more flexibility than what a raid chipset can provide
[00:17:39] <hali> well, some at least :)
[00:17:40] <sstallion_work> there are X number of plain disk controllers which are controlled via the kernel... whats the surprise ?
[00:17:49] <hali> the inability to add single disks to a raidz can be quite limiting
[00:17:58] <Doc> so, ZFS can control an array of redundant disks for me?
[00:19:03] <sstallion_work> Doc: no sense in arguing, you seem set on believing that a hardware controller in software is all zfs and friends are
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[00:19:29] <sstallion_work> hali: I would imagine that is because there hasnt really been a driving need for it yet :)
[00:20:13] <Doc> but can you actually log into it and run "ls" and "cat /etc/passwd" ?
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[00:21:39] <hali> not from huge corporations no
[00:21:45] <hali> there is a napkin-plan though
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[00:29:15] <kimc> the announcement webcast has tinny audio and ~260 viewers
[00:30:35] <alanc> kimc: yes, tcsh was one of the things that got squeezed off the LiveCD in the process of making it fit back onto a CD - after installing, just do "pfexec pkg install tcsh"
[00:30:52] <kimc> ah very good thanks
[00:30:59] <sommerfeld> Doc: so from my point of view, a "raid controller" is an additional system component you have to manage.
[00:31:16] <alanc> kimc: sorry, typo, "pfexec pkg install SUNWtcsh"
[00:32:03] <sommerfeld> Doc: running its own little weird OS that I have to learn to manage
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[00:33:56] * alanc thought NetApp didn't use hardware raid controllers because they use RAID-4, while hw raid controllers are usually RAID-5
[00:35:43] <kimc> John Fowler on the air
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[00:35:45] <kim0> the smallest model 7100 .. cannot do replication can it ?
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[00:36:29] <Doc> sommerfeld: so based on your past 2 comments, it's a raid controller :)
[00:37:10] <Doc> alanc: exactly. same concept, only WAFFLE rather than ZFS
[00:37:41] <kimc> <5 minutes to install :)
[00:39:14] <Doc> err.. WAFL  even
[00:40:58] <kim0> netapp is more reliable! pool corruption ?
[00:41:35] <kimc> <5 minutes to [re]install tcsh
[00:42:42] <throwt> i wouldnt mind a bloated live-dvd
[00:42:54] <kimc> sure
[00:44:45] <kimc> prolly can't get these cool graphics tools free huh ?
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[00:51:30] <hollenjf> what is a good Unix-like os to use for ease of use while being light on resources?
[00:52:33] <throwt> minix
[00:52:38] <throwt> oh, ease of use
[00:52:56] <throwt> minix-vmd is extremely light on resources
[00:53:08] <throwt> but wont run on an 8088 like minix will
[00:53:09] <hollenjf> i need drivers to be well supported
[00:53:22] <throwt> so you want good, easy to use, and light in resources
[00:53:31] <hollenjf> yes :-P
[00:53:33] <hollenjf> hehe
[00:54:07] <throwt> well solaris is out of the question.  solaris is like buying a breadboard and lots of wires
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[00:54:35] <hollenjf> freebsd?
[00:54:59] <throwt> linux is pretty light, its just a few mb required for the kernel
[00:55:15] <throwt> the userland is all under your control.  if you want easy and good, try ubuntu
[00:55:21] <throwt> lots of people here like it
[00:55:22] <e^ipi> haha
[00:55:28] <e^ipi> good and ubuntu used in the same sentance
[00:56:10] <e^ipi> go with openbsd, it uses very little resources and the devs actually care about quality
[00:56:14] <hollenjf> yeah.. gentoo.. dont feel like compiling my OS for days
[00:56:39] <e^ipi> linux is just a mish-mash of a bunch of university profs' stupid ideas
[00:56:45] <throwt> openbsd...  well you know , device drivers less than 10 years old are insecure
[00:56:53] <e^ipi> ( and i dunno if you've been in university lately, but profs and grad students can't code )
[00:57:10] <hollenjf> hehehe
[00:57:26] <hollenjf> Linux sems clunky anymore
[00:57:30] <hollenjf> seems*
[00:58:17] <e^ipi> compared to the feature set it's gigantic and full of bloat these days
[00:58:26] <e^ipi> freebsd outperforms it in less resources
[00:58:33] <e^ipi> and has more features
[00:58:40] <throwt> outperform...  more features?
[00:58:49] <throwt> im not a linux fan, and used to soley run freebsd, but im very skeptical of those statements
[00:58:50] <CIA-59> Brent Paulson <Brent.Paulson at Sun dot COM>: 6734620 sshd doesn't audit failed logins correctly., 6750189 sshd doesn't set pam_retval correctly for password-based authentication failures, 6759291 sshd doesn't generate subject tokens for successful logins/logouts since integration of CR 6445288
[00:59:13] <e^ipi> it also doesn't explode randomly, or kill off processes because it was too dumb to realize that perhaps you oughtn't be overcommitting memory on a critical server
[00:59:20] <throwt> freebsd overcommits
[00:59:38] <e^ipi> throwt: go look at any of the performance graphs for freebsd7 on SMP
[00:59:50] <e^ipi> hell, run your own
[00:59:56] <microchip_> throwt: don't listen too much to e^ipi he's know as a linux hater/basher and hates almost everything that's not solaris-like
[01:00:16] <e^ipi> microchip_: none of the BSD's or macos are solaris like
[01:00:31] <microchip_> i said almost
[01:00:43] <e^ipi> and linux is so full of hype that it kinna earns the wind being taken out of it's sails
[01:01:03] <e^ipi> i don't hate linux, i just think that compared to the alternatives it's not very good
[01:01:13] <throwt> http://people.freebsd.org/~kris/scaling/dfly.html
[01:01:22] <tsoome> overhyped bloat, true:D
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[01:01:34] <LeftyBSD> I also prefer FreeBSD over linux due to stuff like the idiotic OOM killer
[01:01:39] <e^ipi> and it's touted as the second coming of Christ , which annoys me
[01:01:41] <microchip_> e^ipi: that's your personal opinion, don't try to force it on others, let them decide what's good or bad
[01:01:58] <e^ipi> i'm not forcing anyone, i'm informing people that perhaps the hype is just that
[01:02:05] <throwt> so freebsd overcommits, but just denies new allocations like solaris when you hit the wall?
[01:02:10] <e^ipi> forcing would imply i come to your house and install freebsd on your machine
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[01:02:53] <microchip_> forcing can also imply making something worse by badmouthing while it works pretty well
[01:03:34] <throwt> wow i didnt know there was still so much work going into freebsd
[01:03:47] <tsoome> well, windoes pretty well as well, doesnt it?;)
[01:03:48] <e^ipi> throwt: yeah, they're quiet but they do a lot of stuff
[01:03:51] <microchip_> freebds is pretty active and alive
[01:03:53] <e^ipi> new scheduler is pretty hot
[01:03:55] <throwt> i ditched it for solaris once the usb support kept pissing me off.  kept panicing
[01:03:57] <tsoome> windows works*
[01:04:07] <e^ipi> indeed
[01:04:20] <e^ipi> and runs most open source stuff too
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[01:04:55] <xRaich[o]2x1> hm is usb fixed in freebsd8 now? i heard something like that
[01:05:25] <blahee> and the load of missinformation. I just checked three linux machines (RHEL3, RHEL4 and latest up to date Fedora Core 10 rawhide -> noone of there are by default overcommitting memory)
[01:05:59] <tsoome> and about workin linux.... i can reset one sles 10 at once just by inserting sata disk into slot:D
[01:06:00] <throwt> you dont know until its too late
[01:07:25] <prav33n> I have a weird problem with Firefox since I upgraded to snv_101a
[01:08:05] <prav33n> Firefox just freezes up whenever I type letters 'w' or 'a' as first letter in the address bar
[01:08:14] <prav33n> Does anyone face this problem?
[01:08:36] <tsoome> truss it or pstack
[01:09:21] <microchip_> tsoome: and that's the spirit that will alienate solaris from everywhere. Every time i come here, it always see some form of bashing on linux. I've never seen such a bashfest in any linux channels that i visit. In fact, most linux ppl love solaris/bsd and have nothing against it and do not bash it. It's only this channels here that has such a hostility towards linux
[01:09:46] <e^ipi> microchip_, sure you do
[01:09:56] <e^ipi> go in to a linux channel and ask about windows
[01:09:56] <tsoome> well i can see *that* from linux ppl every single day;)
[01:10:15] <microchip_> e^ipi: a lot of linux ppl dual-boot windows, nothing wrong with that
[01:10:19] <xRaich[o]2x1> linux ppl love solaris? i've been bashed for mentioning zfs...
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[01:11:31] <e^ipi> xRaich[o]2x1, clearly you should be using btrfs
[01:11:38] <e^ipi> assuming they get it to work
[01:11:42] <e^ipi> and it's not shite like systemtap
[01:11:56] <tsoome> there is no perfect system, every single one got its issues. but for some reason, windows and linux ppl keep bashing anything else;) so, i have few experience of my own, and i will not keep that for myself;)
[01:12:23] <microchip_> e^ipi:  for you everything is shite, maybe even your brain is shite but you can't see it cuz it's shite
[01:12:27] <xRaich[o]2x1> just mention a random killer feature of solaris that is not available to linux and watch the FUD spread.
[01:12:42] <xRaich[o]2x1> microchip_: ever looked at systemtap?
[01:12:49] <microchip_> what FUD? the one you read from babies on osnews?
[01:12:51] <tsoome> if you run out of arguments, u go personal.... not nice
[01:12:52] <e^ipi> it's like dtrace, but dangerous
[01:12:57] <e^ipi> and not useful
[01:13:01] <xRaich[o]2x1> even torvalds calls it a pile of shit
[01:13:25] <microchip_> then it's a pile of shit, this does not directly bring the whole linux stuff down
[01:13:41] <tsoome> no, only if you try to use it;)
[01:14:27] <e^ipi> no, but you pile crap feature on top of crap feature with no regard to the system as a whole all over the place day by day, patch by patch... doesn't tend to lend itself to a well-engineered operating system
[01:14:53] <e^ipi> and you end up with stupid code like reading a struct byte by byte and reconstructing it later (?!)
[01:15:15] <e^ipi> locks where they shouldn't be, no locks where there should be
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[01:15:31] <prav33n> Strange!
[01:15:33] <e^ipi> linux works mostly by dumb lcuk
[01:15:34] <tsoome> i guess we know one person who can tell word or few about engineering in linux scsi system;)
[01:15:35] <e^ipi> *luck
[01:16:00] <prav33n> When I try to truss or pstack the hung Firefox, it just dies and pstack or truss reports that the process doesn't exist
[01:16:10] <microchip_> e^ipi: if oyu recognize all these mistakes, why don't you go fix them instead of bashing? go bash windows, which is even worse in some regards
[01:16:26] <e^ipi> microchip_, why would i bother fixing them when I can use an OS that doesn't have them?
[01:17:03] <microchip_> so you could stop bashing? and oyu're OS that "just works" does not work on any of my 4 systems here
[01:17:07] <microchip_> you're*
[01:17:21] <e^ipi> i never once claimed that solaris "just works"
[01:17:26] <e^ipi> just that when it does, it's better
[01:17:33] <tsoome> microchip_:  maybe you should buy a computer;)
[01:17:45] <e^ipi> and assuming you have a supported set of hardware, it just works just fine
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[01:18:02] <microchip_> tsoome: maybe you can pay for it, yes? ignorant ****
[01:18:15] <tsoome> ...
[01:18:17] <e^ipi> if it doesn't, write a driver ( and you'll only need to write it once, since the binary will work for pretty much ever )
[01:18:50] <e^ipi> you don't need to recompile your drivers across OS versions, and especially not individual kernel builds, that's absurd
[01:18:52] <microchip_> tsoome: .... ? big mouth got shut down?
[01:19:05] <tsoome> well, you are assuming we should fix buggy linux code, and yet you cant fix your solaris code...
[01:19:08] <e^ipi> alright, this is enough...
[01:19:19] <xRaich[o]2x1> stop being abuse microchip_
[01:19:21] *** microchip_ was kicked by e^ipi (if you're abusive, we don't want you)
[01:19:22] <xRaich[o]2x1> abusive
[01:19:45] <tsoome> heh, he was really pissed tbh:)
[01:19:53] <xRaich[o]2x1> and now it's the bad solaris guys again...
[01:20:00] <tsoome> ofc
[01:20:04] <e^ipi> wah wah
[01:21:04] <tsoome> thats exactly the reason why im telling such guys - you are happy with linux and unhappy with anything else? go with linux and stay happy:D
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[01:21:20] <e^ipi> exactly
[01:21:25] <xRaich[o]2x1> ^^
[01:22:06] <xRaich[o]2x1> tsoome: no you should fix linux since solaris is dead... blah
[01:22:17] <tsoome> yep:)
[01:22:47] <dustman> hm.. hm.. solaris sucks as desktop
[01:22:57] <tsoome> yep it does
[01:23:19] 
[01:23:23] <tsoome> desktop*
[01:24:06] <xRaich[o]2x1> i use it as a desktop. superb developer platform
[01:24:29] <dustman> basic text processing, email and web can be done on minimal install of any bsd
[01:25:03] <dustman> but when it comes to choice, solaris is bad
[01:25:15] <elektronkind> choice of what?
[01:25:20] <dustman> mostly due to lack of precompiled packages
[01:25:32] <elektronkind> quantify that please?
[01:25:36] <dustman> elektronkind: desktop soft
[01:26:01] <dustman> server apps are good and rock solid
[01:27:00] <dustman> and new packaging system got one bad property: it's slow
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[01:27:14] <elektronkind> okay, I can sort of agree with you there.
[01:27:23] <tsoome> i gave up solaris desktop once i found most "free" apps are full with linuxisms and gnuisms and arepain to get to work. used some prepackaged ones for some time and switched to mac:D
[01:28:07] <dustman> I used mac, linux and all bsds for desktop
[01:28:08] <elektronkind> I used opensolaris in a VM at work... all I have a need for is gnome-terminal occasionally firefox, so in that way it's working out for me
[01:28:27] <elektronkind> yeah, mac is my preferred desktop OS :)
[01:28:28] <xRaich[o]2x1> true ips is not the fastest thing on the world. still solaris fulfills my desktop/workstation needs. and i've tried a lot of operating systems
[01:28:30] <e^ipi> dustman, well... it /is/ python... and under heavy development
[01:28:46] <xRaich[o]2x1> beos was pretty cool
[01:29:04] <e^ipi> once the features in the roadmap are all stabilized and the bugs are minimized, they'll probably start working on the perf. issues
[01:29:27] <e^ipi> i'm not terribly worried about speed
[01:29:41] <elektronkind> finally I can use pkg on a box that uses netgroups
[01:29:46] <dustman> e^ipi: usage and features are strong point
[01:29:57] <elektronkind> that was an annoying bug
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[01:30:13] <pizdec> kotra godyna?
[01:30:22] <dustman> and imo mac os x sucks
[01:30:23] <pizdec> nm, wrong chat window
[01:30:37] <e^ipi> meh, i kinna like macos
[01:30:41] <dustman> pizdec: 01:30
[01:30:42] <e^ipi> horrible under load
[01:30:46] <e^ipi> but as a desktop it's alright
[01:30:48] <elektronkind> I dunno, macos is fine. great apps.
[01:30:50] <pizdec> dyakuju
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[01:31:25] <elektronkind> my main app is Aperture anyway... and apps like that suck ass on *nix
[01:31:25] <xRaich[o]2x1> night everyone
[01:31:30] <dustman> e^ipi: there're few good points about mac
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[01:31:42] <tsoome> im worried about speed only for patching. pkg install/remove is not a task i do daily:)
[01:32:16] <e^ipi> exactly
[01:32:20] <dustman> heh, image-update is my favorite
[01:32:31] <elektronkind> I still would like to know if Sun is gunning to use IPS in Solaris 11 or stick to SVR4
[01:33:14] <e^ipi> elektronkind, more than likely pkg(5) once the kinks are worked out
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[01:33:55] <elektronkind> in that case, there better be a decent analog for redhat's Satellite service
[01:34:00] <dustman> I wonder what packaging system belenix will chose
[01:34:25] <e^ipi> elektronkind, that'd be one of the kinks to be worked out before putback
[01:35:27] <alanc> elektronkind: Solaris 11, if it is called that, will almost certainly be IPS-based, though still allow unbundled SVR4 packages to be added
[01:35:40] <elektronkind> oh of course, I'm sure
[01:35:48] <elektronkind> (re: the svr4 part)
[01:36:07] <elektronkind> it's ultimately the Right Thing to do
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[01:36:22] <elektronkind> just wondering how soon it would be
[01:36:30] <elektronkind> and that's now answered :)
[01:36:31] <e^ipi> pkgadd already exists on indiana
[01:36:37] <e^ipi> it works, i've used it
[01:37:05] <e^ipi> my fluxbox package is sysvr4
[01:37:46] <elektronkind> well, I wouldn't expect sun or its ISVs to have to convert their packages en masse either
[01:38:10] <e^ipi> pure conjecture: sun likely will
[01:38:17] <e^ipi> ISV's, who knows
[01:39:02] <tsoome> it will take a time
[01:39:03] <alanc> Sun likely will as new product releases come out, but will need to support existing SVR4 package releases for a while
[01:39:48] <dustman> what's IPS based on?
[01:39:59] <alanc> nothing
[01:40:03] <alanc> it's a new system
[01:40:20] <e^ipi> python
[01:40:22] <dustman> and why would they do it?
[01:40:48] <dustman> good alternatives already there, with reasonable licenses
[01:40:58] <tsoome> if features and speed is not the driver, there is no point to swap it;)
[01:41:07] <alanc> they looked at them, and didn't find one that met all the requirements
[01:41:13] <e^ipi> dustman, more control... lets you add features like snapshots, etc
[01:41:34] <e^ipi> if apt-get fucks up, you're screwed... if pkg install fucks up, you rollback and continue
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[01:45:18] <dustman> since apt-get uses binaries and add them separately, how you can fuck up whole system?
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[01:45:38] <dustman> broken packages, sure, but system?
[01:45:52] <e^ipi> the system is comprised of packages
[01:46:18] <e^ipi> bad libc ( or even incompatible libc )? sux, system is a brick
[01:46:23] <e^ipi> reinstall
[01:46:41] <dustman> would be reasonable to separate between system and third party packages
[01:46:42] <e^ipi> vs ips... bad libc (somehow), sux... zfs rollback
[01:47:44] <dustman> e^ipi: are you saying ips automatically makes snapshots prior to all operations?
[01:48:06] <e^ipi> i don't know what the policy is, but yes, it makes snapshots before some operations
[01:48:14] <e^ipi> an image-update for example
[01:48:41] <e^ipi> apt-get upgrade can leave your machine a brick if something goes wrong, image-update can be rolled back
[01:48:43] <dustman> system updates handled differently on many systems anyway
[01:49:34] <dustman> zfs snapshot can save your ass even when using apt-get
[01:50:03] <dustman> so I can't see this as a feature of ips itself, not zfs
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[01:51:32] <e^ipi> *shrug*
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[02:11:43] <webar7> umm
[02:12:20] <webar7> what's the difference between the jre and the jdk and do i need them to make osol work?
[02:12:20] <alanc> umm?
[02:12:59] <alanc> JRE is the Java Runtime, JDK is the Developer Kit - if you want to run Java applets/applications, you just need the JRE - if you want to build new ones, you also need the JDK
[02:14:16] <webar7> I guess what I really mean is can i have a totally stripped down osol that is the equivalent of say freebsd compiled with a bunch of NO_WHATEVER switches
[02:14:54] <e^ipi> it's called milax
[02:15:27] <webar7> do I need things like the jre make smf run or ... it seems I need python for zonecfg for example
[02:15:34] <dustman> webar7: minimal osol is still like a sumo wrestler comparing to any bsd
[02:15:47] <webar7> ok
[02:16:42] <webar7> so I can be safe removing X and gnome etc but should probably leave python java etc
[02:16:54] <dustman> easiest way is to make default install and use ips to remove extra packages
[02:17:00] <e^ipi> you have to understand... the sorts of machines solaris has traditionally been built for are this: http://www.sun.com/servers/highend/sunfire_e25k/index.xml
[02:17:13] <webar7> ok great
[02:17:45] <e^ipi> whereas BSD hasn't really added a whole lot of resource hungry extras since they ran on machines with less power than a gameboy
[02:17:47] <dustman> and smf to disable as much as you want
[02:18:19] <dustman> e^ipi: not exactly
[02:18:38] <webar7> hmm big iron ... but maybe that's why sun invented the jvm :)
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[02:18:53] <dustman> bsds rely on custom kernels with switches on/off
[02:18:55] <e^ipi> jvm runs on cellphones
[02:19:01] <e^ipi> it's not that heavy really
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[02:19:13] <webar7> but it must have seemed small and fast compared to solaris :)
[02:19:35] <e^ipi> solaris is quite fast actually
[02:19:51] <e^ipi> it's got a pretty high minimum working set of memory, but once that's achieved it scales like crazy
[02:20:05] <dustman> webar7: if you do't need zfs, you  don't need solaris
[02:20:06] <e^ipi> ~ 1GB of ram, after that it's plenty good
[02:20:24] <e^ipi> dustman, that's not entirely true
[02:20:29] <dustman> although networking in solaris is also superb..
[02:20:31] <webar7> dustman, oh .. well I'm using zfs on freebsd :-\
[02:20:54] <webar7> it's mostly for comparison and for zones etc
[02:20:57] <jbk> e^ipi: as long as you don't use ff3 :)
[02:21:01] <webar7> though freebsd has that too
[02:21:16] <dustman> solaris zones are cool
[02:21:16] <jbk> hell, even on my dual core amd w/ 2gb ram, after about b98 or so
[02:21:28] <jbk> i notice serious desktop slowness
[02:21:30] <zenbalrog> webar7: hey i'm using zfs in linux, yay!
[02:21:31] <dustman> but they change all the time in osol
[02:22:07] <webar7> I just want opensolaris in case my company sky rockets to $ucce$$ so I can phone Sun and buy enterprise support
[02:22:08] <webar7> :-)
[02:22:18] <webar7> zenbalrog, it works with linux now
[02:22:22] <webar7> wow
[02:22:40] <zenbalrog> webar7: yup running gentoo, but it is dog slow....
[02:23:04] <zenbalrog> webar7: still considered alpha for linux
[02:23:34] <webar7> oh ... hmm well oracle (surprise surprise) seems t obe working on some uber filesystem thingie for linux ... i wonder why .... (evil laugh off frame)
[02:24:06] <zenbalrog> zfs running on all unixes will be a great thing i believe
[02:24:36] <e^ipi> I really wish my printer didn't suck up 800W by itself
[02:24:48] <dustman> hm.. zfs is great for file servers
[02:25:20] <webar7> zfs ships with freebsd now ... it's pretty good. pjd needs help :-\ fro msun side too ... I believe freebsd folks found a few bugs in zfs itself
[02:25:40] <e^ipi> it's userland, it'll be slow forever
[02:26:12] <_mary_kate_> webar7: don't buy support for opensolaris, use solaris 10
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[02:26:55] <webar7> it's a kernel module on freebsd
[02:28:01] <e^ipi> webar7, that's because freebsd doesn't force you to GPL kernel modules
[02:28:08] <webar7> oh
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[02:32:22] <webar7> well maybe linux forces gpl for kernel module but at least they don't make people do weird click through things to use java :-)
[02:33:37] <e^ipi> one makes things impossible, the other makes things a slight bit of a hassle once
[02:34:28] <purserj> gosh, you mean people enforce licence conditions?
[02:34:51] <_mary_kate_> last time i used debian, it made me accept the sun java license before i could install it
[02:35:34] <webar7> yeah ... same on freebsd ... you can't automate installs as easily ...
[02:35:58] <dustman> and what's wrong with that?
[02:36:17] <dustman> stupid clicking on 'Accept' is bad
[02:36:42] <webar7> and you can't "distribute" the binary even though it's sort of being distributed afaict
[02:37:26] * dustman wonders how many people read user agreements for social networks like facebook
[02:37:41] <e^ipi> i don't
[02:37:46] <e^ipi> but i also don't have a facebook
[02:38:04] <webar7> oh well java isn't used that much day to day by the developers so I guess it doesn't matter it's for people who are deploying tomcat thingies and authentication web SSO thingies
[02:38:13] <dustman> I read it and decided not to sign
[02:38:18] <webar7> and they can click "OK"
[02:38:35] <e^ipi> java's used a lot more than you might think actually
[02:38:46] <dustman> and .net
[02:38:49] <e^ipi> not for desktop apps, but other stuff
[02:39:01] <webar7> I know I mean by the day to day developers of freebsd
[02:39:09] <webar7> they use C :P
[02:39:17] <webar7> ruby python etc
[02:39:28] <dustman> C and perl
[02:39:52] <e^ipi> system software will probably always be in C
[02:40:03] <jerrl> File "/usr/bin/pkg", line 60, in ?
[02:40:06] <e^ipi> and ruby is just a fad
[02:40:12] <jerrl> above is when I use the pkg install package. ???
[02:40:14] <webar7> mono is sort of enfeebled on freebsd not sure why ... threads or something about 90% of version 1.2 works
[02:40:20] <webar7> errm mono=.net
[02:41:23] <dustman> probably because freebsd users and developers love MS
[02:41:32] <e^ipi> mono is just because miguel de icasa really wishes that he could've gotten that job for microsoft back in the day
[02:42:02] <jbk> heh
[02:42:04] <webar7> e^pi it's a pretty old fad :)  ... I think people like the syntax style and lack of tabs in ruby but there's plenty to love ... anyway it doesn't matter becase
[02:42:04] <e^ipi> he's no stranger to bending over backwards to promote MS tech
[02:42:12] <jbk> is there a M$ technology he has't tried to copy?
[02:42:12] <webar7> PERL6 will own them ALL
[02:42:54] <webar7> hmm I wonder if perl6 will run C# code
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[02:43:11] <webar7> jbk, Active Directory
[02:43:21] <webar7> jbit, oh wait he works at Novell
[02:43:39] <e^ipi> he does now
[02:43:58] <webar7> which is why he doesn't need to work on active directory :)
[02:44:35] <webar7> Active Directory is such a great name :)
[02:45:01] <webar7> no name space collisions (on purpose or by accident)
[02:45:15] <webar7> unlike MS's Digital Nervous System
[02:45:31] <webar7> ahem
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[02:49:38] <webar7> what is JAVA's (the stock symbol) competitor to AD?  it would seem with both posix and NT acls on ZFS along with NFS4/in kernel CIFS AFS etc etc *and* a solid LDAP/Kerberos thingie that Sun would sort of own the file server market
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[02:49:53] <webar7> if it were good ...
[02:50:08] <e^ipi> DSEE ?
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[02:50:51] <e^ipi> it's just ldap... it's pretty nice, but it's really just ldap
[02:50:58] <e^ipi> no embrace and extend bullshit
[02:51:38] <ingenth1> does anyone know where i might find instructions to create my own OpenSolaris (distro) based LiveCD?
[02:52:03] <webar7> It's almost like AD is a fix for NetBEUI or CIFS designed to make 3rd party directory solutions for MS irrelevant but they leverage their monopoly and the fact most NT sysadmins knew little about directory services to get it deployed
[02:52:14] <webar7> super widely
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[02:52:49] <e^ipi> ingenthr: there aren't really any instructions
[02:52:56] <webar7> and now no one wants to leave the embrace of AD ("it controls access to my ELEVATORS man!!")
[02:53:02] <dustman> webar7: does it surprise you?
[02:53:22] <webar7> it's weird ... but yes, predictable
[02:53:37] <dustman> it's not weird
[02:53:40] <ingenthr> e^ipi: thanks... i gather it may be complex then?
[02:54:03] <e^ipi> yes, it's quite complex if you don't understand how all the parts are put together
[02:54:15] <e^ipi> even if you do, it's non-trivial
[02:54:26] <ingenthr> got it, thanks much
[02:54:28] <dustman> ms office is greatest carrot and surprisingly many oses can run that
[02:55:08] <dustman> so any crap on os that can run it is *great feature*
[02:55:16] <webar7> I think MS's ultimate plan is to make a really cheap game console that uses .NET everywhere and create a parallel internet (called MSFT.NET) that will gradually get hooked into the world's food supply
[02:55:25] <webar7> and soon
[02:55:35] <webar7> you''ll need to upgrade to EAT
[02:56:25] <webar7> well depending on your job you sort of have to do that now actually ...
[02:56:30] <dustman> antitrust laws are still functioning
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[02:56:44] <e^ipi> are they?
[02:56:54] * webar7 ponders buying JAVA shares
[02:57:06] <e^ipi> trustbusting fell out of fashion ages ago
[02:57:13] <dustman> webar7: ha.. ha.. ha..
[02:57:13] <e^ipi> we're all about unrestricted capitalism now
[02:57:38] <dustman> ms was fined last summer
[02:57:44] <jamesd> webar7, starbucks, espresso would probably be a better short term buy... at least it taste good on your tongue.
[02:57:44] <dustman> in europe
[02:57:47] <webar7> i mean if the laws are now functioning it's a good time to buy!  "buy on rumour sell on news"
[02:58:02] <e^ipi> jamesd: it does?
[02:58:18] <e^ipi> dustman: just another cost of doing business
[02:58:37] <webar7> it's too bad ... sun is a great company and has lots of cash ... a bit too much debt and slow sales are going to hurt
[02:58:38] <e^ipi> actual, real trustbusting hasn't really been done since the 40's
[02:58:49] <CIA-59> Tarik Soydan <Tarik.Soydan at Sun dot COM>: 6765743 SUNOS dictionary entry 12 conflict
[02:58:49] <CIA-59> Avinash Joshi <avinashtjoshi at gmail dot com>: 4301328 *spell* Neither "spell" nor "look" know how to spell "desiccate" correctly
[02:59:01] <jamesd> e^ipi, depends on the type of drink you order.. your  battery acid espresso with 12 shots, and vinegar  probably doesn't do much.
[02:59:01] <webar7> but I hope it won't be the disaster of something like nortel
[02:59:02] <e^ipi> webar7: it's remarkably debt free, and cash reserves are about the same as market cap
[02:59:35] <e^ipi> the market just likes to punish sun for some reason *shrug*
[02:59:37] <webar7> the shares look cheap ... but I think I am wearing my geek cap when I want to invest in Sun
[03:00:16] <dustman> all IT companies fall
[03:01:12] <dustman> big companies don't invest in iron, and Sun doesn't produce desktop shit
[03:01:37] <webar7> sun needs a groovy software services arm replete with plenty o' web 2.0 marketing crap along with custom solutions for financial sector recovery and monitoring :)   they need to sell their own stuff more instead of relying on "partners" all the time
[03:02:23] <dustman> webar7: financial sector loves ibm's mainframes
[03:02:36] <e^ipi> and sun, actually
[03:02:39] <webar7> too bad they couldn't buy RIM :-)
[03:03:22] <e^ipi> "iphone runs real OSX" "blackberry runs real solaris!"
[03:03:30] <dustman> e^ipi: I had impression Sun was strong in goverment and academia
[03:04:03] <webar7> heheh ... actually I think zfs and mysql together in a room with a bunch of sun engineers and java hackers does mack Larry nervous
[03:04:41] <webar7> I was surprised to hear from our IT people about all the "applications" Oracle sells
[03:05:30] <e^ipi> if oracle is a contender for your database, it's probably such that mysql isn't even a consideration
[03:05:54] <webar7> then they showed me all these variations on a theme which "run on oracle"   one for accounting, one for hr, one for .... site licenses galore
[03:07:40] <webar7> e^ipi, true but they sell to firms with 20 employees accessing a database ~ 50  times a day
[03:08:11] <dustman> and you'd probably need to pay extra to adapt for your specific needs
[03:08:28] <webar7> mysql has plenty of room to grow into oracle's oversold market
[03:10:00] <e^ipi> you think? i'd imagine the sorts of people who would migrate from oracle to mysql already have
[03:10:20] <webar7> but out of the box "database applications" seem to help
[03:10:25] <webar7> hmm I guess that's true
[03:10:35] <e^ipi> mysql being the cheap "starter db" , and when you grow up you use something like oracle
[03:10:41] <purserj> or postgres
[03:10:57] <webar7> but sheesh ... IT departments hire people to "write" MS-Access applications :-|
[03:11:06] <webar7> "applciations"
[03:11:52] <webar7> someday soon they will write them and then click on them and make them into .NET enabled web applications that run in Sharepoint!
[03:13:38] <webar7> well lord knows where Sun's broader growing market  will come from .... if it's not databases then 1 billion for MySQL seems ...
[03:14:02] <webar7> a lot
[03:14:17] <purserj> webar7: not really. Mysql brings a lot of people to Sun who might not have looked at them before
[03:14:27] <webar7> hmm
[03:14:33] <webar7> true
[03:14:40] <purserj> they also bring bragging rights
[03:14:50] <e^ipi> heh, you go to buy a mysql support contract & end up with an M9000
[03:15:07] <e^ipi> damn those sales droids!
[03:15:14] <webar7> plus entreprise server side of things linux "market place" is sort of screwy
[03:15:17] <purserj> Sun has sales droids now?
[03:15:39] <purserj> webar7: it's more like "almost every php application now uses a Sun Product"
[03:15:46] <webar7> hah
[03:16:05] <webar7> what does google use :)
[03:16:10] <purserj> mysql
[03:16:15] <purserj> in a lot of their stuff
[03:16:16] <webar7> oops :P
[03:16:41] <purserj> see? MySQL is everywhere
[03:16:50] <webar7> postgres has good support on solaris
[03:16:53] <webar7> too
[03:16:56] <purserj> and now Sun has the branding rights
[03:17:24] <e^ipi> purserj: the colours in the mysql logo were already the same, so i guess it made sense to buy them
[03:17:27] <webar7> well there q3 report showed cash coming in from their supposed "free stuff"
[03:17:39] <webar7> e^ipi, haha
[03:17:46] <e^ipi> mysql isn't free for support
[03:17:48] <purserj> webar7: welcome to the world of support contracts
[03:17:55] <webar7> e^ipi, same goes for Cobalt :)
[03:17:58] <purserj> how do you think Redhat is still around
[03:18:04] <webar7> for sure
[03:18:10] <purserj> it's not from selling the software, it's the Support services
[03:18:21] <e^ipi> you can't use the software without support services
[03:18:26] <dustman> and branding
[03:18:35] <webar7> that's why it could be a smart move ... there's not much choice in linux land ... (there's an illusion of it)
[03:18:42] <purserj> e^ipi: sure you can wrt Redhat, just install CentOS
[03:19:02] <e^ipi> that's not redhat though, that's a non-redhat community built thing
[03:19:11] <e^ipi> made to look like RHEL
[03:19:24] <dustman> use RH in any commercial and you're screwd
[03:19:24] <webar7> well even RHEL is "free" but no corporate buyer is ever going to use software without buying support
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[03:19:45] <purserj> webar7: true, and the same applies to OpenSolaris
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[03:20:07] <e^ipi> but you can download and use real actual solaris, and then just add a support contract to it later
[03:20:08] <purserj> enterprise wants' the ability to call support/blame someone else
[03:20:10] <e^ipi> similarly with mysql
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[03:20:22] <e^ipi> with RHEL, you reinstall actual RHEL and redeploy your app
[03:20:31] <webar7> you're allowed to download a use it just not say you are using it via brand logo etc etc
[03:21:09] <webar7> app developers want a stable platform to "certify" against
[03:21:09] <purserj> yar, essentially, the software is fine to use, just take out our trademarked bits
[03:21:35] <webar7> that's why linux reall means = RHAT or Novell
[03:21:54] <purserj> actually Linux means the kernel, RHAT or Novell are the Operating Systems
[03:22:06] <dustman> g8
[03:22:07] <e^ipi> and it only means novell because government contracts require an alternate vendor to exist
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[03:22:24] <webar7> i mean the linux market ... ok maybe IBM somehow but WTF they resell everything
[03:22:25] <purserj> Or are the various Open Solaris distros all Open Solaris
[03:22:36] <e^ipi> not according to the trademark policy
[03:22:50] <webar7> e^ipi, hehe
[03:22:56] <webar7> e^ipi, true
[03:23:14] <webar7> e^ipi, good piece about procurement on the sun blogs recently
[03:23:21] <e^ipi> there is only one opensolaris, and it is 2008.xx
[03:23:31] <webar7> by what's his head :)
[03:23:38] <e^ipi> who, simon?
[03:23:43] <webar7> yeah
[03:23:50] <webar7> webmink
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[03:25:00] <webar7> I say go sun!   I may buy shares but I will mostly use freebsd :)
[03:25:19] <Plazma> dladm > *
[03:25:33] <webar7> unless I become rich and require corporate support
[03:26:46] <e^ipi> support's actually not that expensive
[03:26:49] <e^ipi> $100/year or so
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[03:27:09] <e^ipi> if i were running any sort of business, i'd opt for it
[03:27:11] <webar7> Plazma, is dladm = ifconfig
[03:27:20] <Plazma> not quite
[03:27:22] <webar7> e^ipi, good to know
[03:27:29] <Plazma> but i just discovered it's many uses and it saved my ass :D
[03:27:32] <Plazma> so i owe it a beer
[03:27:40] <e^ipi> webar7: just for kicks, RHEL support is about 3 times as much
[03:27:46] <webar7> ha
[03:27:54] <webar7> Plazma, ha
[03:27:59] <e^ipi> linux is the expensive option between it and real unix
[03:28:06] <_mary_kate_> note that the $100/year support is not actually support, it's just patches and KB
[03:28:16] <_mary_kate_> the cheapest actual support is $720/year for <= 4 CPUs
[03:28:22] <Plazma> e^ipi,  not to hear the CIO/CEO's preach.... even if it is cheaper, total cost of ownerhip is FAR higher
[03:28:27] <Plazma> damn idiotic IT managers
[03:28:29] <e^ipi> and the $300/year RHEL support is about the same as that
[03:28:44] <_mary_kate_> i see it's gone up to $324/year for solaris now
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[03:29:22] <webar7> Plazma, dladm seems like ifconfig on steroids
[03:29:29] <e^ipi> unfortunate
[03:29:56] <Plazma> e^ipi,  it really is.. when you have enterprise multi million dollar applications relying on RHEL
[03:30:02] <Plazma> and they go down.. due to kernel panics and seg faults
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[03:30:10] <Plazma> and RHEL has no _clue_ how to give advice on kernel issues
[03:30:17] <Plazma> well RedHat..  is hould say
[03:30:35] <webar7> Plazma, like freebsd's ngctl lagg and ifconfig all in one tool
[03:30:52] <Plazma> webar7, it's fairly new to me, but im impressed
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[03:31:57] <webar7> my machines are amd64 with 2 and 4 gigs of RAM ... maybe  I will put osol "on the metal" instead in vmware :)
[03:32:24] <webar7> but I will ipkg out a crap load of stuff first
[03:32:28] <_mary_kate_> webar7: dladm is for layer 1-2, ifconfig is for layer 3
[03:32:41] <Plazma> yea
[03:33:07] <webar7> _mary_kate_, I thought ngctl was layer 2 as well ?
[03:33:21] <_mary_kate_> what is ngctl?  doesn't seem to be in S10
[03:33:48] <webar7> oh no it's a freebsd thing
[03:33:58] <_mary_kate_> i was talking about solaris
[03:34:17] <webar7> I was trying to understand dladm by comparing it to my world :)
[03:35:20] <webar7> ngctl is sort of a way of to combine protocol and link level
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[03:35:51] <Plazma> webar7,  yea, layer 1-2 connectivity.. example would be wireless config and AP association.. thats layer 1
[03:36:12] <webar7> k
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[03:39:38] <webar7> Plazma, one cool thing you can do with lagg and probably dladm too I guess is bundle wireless links and ethernet into one "interface" ... if one goes down others get used ... if you;re on a laptop and unplug your network cable you don't notice
[03:39:39] <webar7> etc
[03:40:15] <_mary_kate_> you could do with that IPMP (ip multipathing)
[03:40:24] <Plazma> or teaming/etherchannel
[03:40:26] <Plazma> with LACP
[03:40:27] <_mary_kate_> it's like link aggregation, but entirely host based, unlike LACP
[03:40:36] <_mary_kate_> Plazma: LACP over wireless?  does any switch support that? ;)
[03:40:48] <Plazma> hahaah
[03:40:51] <Plazma> i forgot he said that
[03:40:54] <Plazma> but id try it anyway
[03:40:57] <Plazma> because thats how i roll
[03:41:20] <webar7> one think I like about solaris is the commandline *adm tools .. they generally make big things easier
[03:41:29] <Plazma> yea.. sun did do some things right
[03:43:38] <webar7> plus there's that osol project for web enabling admin of just about any service  on the box
[03:44:42] <_mary_kate_> visual panels
[03:48:48] <Plazma> holy crap.. JDS's user tool has settings for RBAC>. that really surprises me
[03:49:13] <_mary_kate_> tried trusted jds yet? ;)
[03:49:54] <Plazma> nah
[03:50:03] <Plazma> i just figured id try it on my laptop, and everything works automagically
[03:50:16] <Plazma> i just wish i could figure out how to turn the brightness up/down and fix the icon size.. their freaking huge
[03:51:27] <Plazma> but then again i haven't researched it THAT much yet.. been having beer instead
[03:55:16] <high-rez> Any ideas on how to debug opensolaris ?
[03:55:40] <high-rez> When I boot of the cd I get th the "opensolaris console login:" but if I hit enter it repeats it like 50 times
[03:55:45] <high-rez> and is generally unstable.
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[03:57:51] <high-rez> It looks like the X Server isn't starting..
[03:58:52] <CIA-59> jv227347 <Jordan.Vaughan at Sun dot com>: 6454671 assertion failed: pool->pool_ref == 0, file: ../../common/os/pool.c, line: 447 panic on snv_45
[03:58:53] <CIA-59> Guoli Shu<Kerry.Shu at Sun dot COM>: 6764872 resource conflict in pci MEM and Prefetch MEM
[03:58:54] <CIA-59> Dina K Nimeh <Dina.Nimeh at Sun dot Com>: 6618810 lofiadm should accept general path names
[03:58:54] <CIA-59> Roger A. Faulkner <Roger.Faulkner at Sun dot COM>: 6597729 RFE: Alternative ksh93 version of libc::wordexp() should use posix_spawn(), Contributed by Roland Mainz <roland.mainz at nrubsig dot org>
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[03:59:58] <Samy> You guys really need a decent converter.
[04:01:44] <alanc> aww, nrubsig wasn't here to see his putback go through
[04:01:57] <high-rez> http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=80880&tstart=0  <--- the exact bug I'm seeing
[04:02:03] <high-rez> On the latest install CD
[04:05:36] <e^ipi> hey, alanc , you'd know
[04:06:09] <e^ipi> the one-button macbook trackpads... does X anywhere support some way of right clicking with them?
[04:06:11] <high-rez> Ok, so I think I have a solution - how does the solaris install CD startx?  startx as root or as jack?
[04:06:24] <e^ipi> i use two-finger tapping in OSX
[04:06:33] <e^ipi> high-rez: it doesn't. use svcadm
[04:06:51] <e^ipi> root is also not a user
[04:07:36] <high-rez> I would really recommend disabling msi during install - and then testing if you get the interrupt after install.
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[04:08:06] <e^ipi> Samy: converter for what exactly?
[04:08:34] <alanc> e^ipi: dunno - possibly something in the synaptics touchpad driver, I'm not familiar with it's options since it doesn't run on Solaris
[04:08:41] <e^ipi> fair enough
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[04:10:48] <high-rez> e^ipi: can you give me more info on how that works?  I'm new to solaris here.  ;)
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[04:11:22] <high-rez> man, weak, the module won't onload anyways :(  stupid
[04:11:33] <e^ipi> the smf man page details how smf works quite well
[04:12:08] <e^ipi> as for the root thing, see rbac(5)
[04:13:01] <e^ipi> root is a role
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[04:14:51] <Samy> e^ipi, CIA
[04:15:14] <e^ipi> what needs to be translated there?
[04:15:16] <Samy> e^ipi, could I see the sourcecode to the current one?
[04:15:24] <e^ipi> yeah, src.opensolaris.org
[04:15:28] <high-rez> how about forced module unloading ?
[04:15:28] <Samy> e^ipi, I am writing one for #FreeBSD-src now (since a lot of FreeBSD people are using SVN now).
[04:15:38] <e^ipi> oh, you mean the source for CIA
[04:15:41] <Samy> No.
[04:15:59] * Samy was around the author for a while some years ago :-P
[04:16:06] <Samy> The source for the converter you guys are using
[04:16:12] <e^ipi> Samy: cia.vc
[04:16:21] <Samy> You guys are using a converter.
[04:16:42] <high-rez> e^ipi: When I try to unload the nvidia module it says it's busy and I don't see any option to force it unloading... Any ideas there ? :)
[04:17:20] <e^ipi> Samy: are we?
[04:17:48] <e^ipi> nope, CIA.vc has a script to run against hg
[04:17:50] <e^ipi> and svn
[04:17:56] <e^ipi> and anything else you can think of really
[04:18:18] <alanc> high-rez: I think it's impossible to unload the nvidia module because you can't turn off your console device while the kernel is running
[04:19:04] <high-rez> so basically you can't fix the bad config parameter that's on the install cds.  wonderful
[04:19:28] <high-rez> alanc: does it use it even when you're in the text console ?
[04:19:39] <alanc> yes
[04:20:08] <alanc> I think you can pass a grub option at boot to tell it not to load the driver, don't remember the exact syntax
[04:20:27] <Samy> e^ipi, hmmm
[04:20:32] * Samy checks
[04:20:39] <Samy> It wasn't like this back in the day
[04:20:52] <e^ipi> *shrug*
[04:20:58] <Samy> e^ipi, can you show me where the svn converter is?
[04:21:02] <Samy> e^ipi, because I couldn't find it.
[04:21:27] <Samy> http://cia.vc/doc/clients/
[04:21:29] <Samy> There.
[04:21:38] <Samy> Great
[04:22:26] <Samy> We had to write our own for CVS, at the time.
[04:23:12] <e^ipi> Samy: http://cia.vc/doc/clients/
[04:23:31] <Samy> yup
[04:24:46] <e^ipi> yup what, you run the client and it works
[04:27:26] <e^ipi> huh, that's interesting
[04:27:32] <e^ipi> we average 1 putback every 3.9 hours
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[04:39:51] <high-rez> So any ideas on how to get opensolaris to /not/ load a specific module at boot?
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[04:41:29] <_mary_kate_> edit /etc/system and write 'exclude: whatever'
[04:42:13] <high-rez> I'll refine, when booting from the install cd (which has a bad default config for nvidia video cards) ?
[04:42:54] <high-rez> E>g. something I can pass to grub to tell it "don't load this module" so I can edit the modules config before the module is loaded since, for whatever crazy reason, there's no apparent way to unload/reload the module.
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[04:59:29] * high-rez goes nuts
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[05:29:50] <johnfg> hi guys
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[05:30:22] <johnfg> Does the new release candidate make zfs an option?
[05:30:45] <e^ipi> no, it's mandatory
[05:30:47] <_mary_kate_> an option for what?
[05:30:56] <johnfg> I saw that opensolaris was instrumental in getting solaris to be able to have boot or root zfs.
[05:31:07] <_mary_kate_> not really
[05:31:11] <e^ipi> that's a pretty wild assertion
[05:31:24] <e^ipi> the existence of zfs was the primary reason that solaris has zfs
[05:31:34] <johnfg> I mean, can I choose zfs for the file system for opensolaris?
[05:31:38] <e^ipi> no
[05:31:41] <e^ipi> it's mandatory
[05:31:49] <_mary_kate_> 2008.05 has always used zfs root
[05:31:55] <e^ipi> there is no other option than zfs, same as 2008.05
[05:33:11] <johnfg> Cool.  I've been a linux guy forever, unix before that: system v, at&t; bsd/os; I tried solaris, but don't know that I'm willing to relearn what I'd need to to fully operate it.
[05:33:40] <e^ipi> solaris is sysv
[05:33:42] <johnfg> I'll go get and install the rc for this opensolaris and check back.
[05:33:49] <e^ipi> you won't need to relearn much
[05:34:02] <e^ipi> it doesn't diverge that much from regular sysv
[05:34:54] <johnfg> e^ipi, I know, I've just been so used to, e.g., using sytem-config-network and the like, and it would take me some work, probably not too much, to get the network set up for solaris.
[05:35:06] <Plazma> wait.. my b99 uses ufs.. i think
[05:35:10] <e^ipi> no, nwam takes care of it
[05:35:21] <e^ipi> you boot, and then your network works
[05:35:37] <e^ipi> usually
[05:35:51] <e^ipi> Plazma: not if it started life as 2008.05 it doesn't
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[05:35:59] <e^ipi> if it's SXCE then you choose
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[05:36:37] <johnfg> Well, I installed solaris 10 10/08 with np, but the network definitely wasn't installed, and definitely wasn't up.  And it's always there when I do linux.
[05:36:49] <e^ipi> no, solaris10 is different
[05:37:02] <johnfg> e^ipi, were you talking solaris 10 or opensolaris?
[05:37:08] <e^ipi> opensolaris
[05:37:08] <Plazma> e^ipi,  /etc/vfstab surley will list it as ufs no?
[05:37:22] <e^ipi> Plazma: if it's ufs, sure
[05:37:22] <johnfg> Right.  Good.  Outstanding!
[05:37:36] <Plazma> e^ipi,  thats what i mean, b99 is ufs for me
[05:37:42] <Plazma> not that it makes a huge difference to me
[05:37:45] <e^ipi> Plazma: so you're running SXCE
[05:37:48] <Plazma> yea
[05:37:51] <_mary_kate_> Plazma: if you're using SXCE, you choose the filesystem during install
[05:37:51] <Plazma> ohh
[05:37:58] <Plazma> haha i got 2 and 8 confused
[05:38:01] <Plazma> i thought they were the same #
[05:38:07] <bding24> I hope someone here can help. Got word from a number of friends in Sun that they just let go the entire open solaris team on Thursday. What does that mean?
[05:38:32] <e^ipi> i got paid today, so that can't be right
[05:38:43] <_mary_kate_> since when is there an 'opensolaris team'?
[05:39:14] <Plazma> yea, i see CIA is busy .. or was
[05:40:05] <bding24> sounds like my info was a bit exagerated. Probaly just some random group connected to open solaris. Glad to know there are some folks still there. thanks
[05:40:25] <Plazma> yea.. you can't believe everything you hear/read/imagine
[05:40:33] <Plazma> though sometimes if theirs pink ponies and stuff involved.. you can
[05:40:34] <Plazma> ;)
[05:40:46] <bding24> HA...thanks
[05:40:50] <_mary_kate_> maybe they got rid of those stupid sales people who thought OpenSolaris was a good name for the OS
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[05:41:34] <Plazma> _mary_kate_,  i hope they don't change it, i just bought 120 T shirts , bad holders, and coffee mugs
[05:41:48] <_mary_kate_> Plazma: the name can stay for the project
[05:42:00] <_mary_kate_> Plazma: but creating an OS with the same name as the project (where there are several other opensolaris distributions) was pretty stupid
[05:42:08] <Plazma> heh yea
[05:42:09] <Plazma> and confusing
[05:42:22] <Plazma> like when they changed the stock symbol
[05:42:53] <e^ipi> naming your open source project after your flagship product was perhaps the first mistake ( which sun learned from, hence openjdk and not openjava )
[05:43:24] <_mary_kate_> i think it's novell's fault, since they just renamed suse to opensuse
[05:43:33] <_mary_kate_> now everyone thinks sun just renamed solaris to opensolaris
[05:43:43] <Plazma> _mary_kate_,  that was so they allude from them thinking or remembering netware
[05:43:58] <Plazma> let it die.. and burn in the firey hell from whence it came
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[05:48:07] <_mary_kate_> 'whence it came', not 'from whence'
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[05:48:37] <Plazma> i like my way better :D
[05:48:39] <Plazma> but thanks
[05:48:49] <Plazma> the point is, it should die
[05:48:51] <Plazma> or stay dead
[05:48:53] <Plazma> and not zombify
[05:49:45] <johnfg> Any problem that you know of with opensolaris and dual or tri booting?
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[05:49:59] <_mary_kate_> johnfg: why bother?  just virtualise it
[05:50:07] <johnfg> It took some work to get solaris operating with linux and win xp pro.
[05:50:27] <johnfg> _mary_kate_, Yeah, I supposed I can do that.
[05:50:33] <johnfg> suppose
[05:51:32] <e^ipi> eh, it works fine dual booting, but dual booting is silly
[05:51:44] <e^ipi> install solaris, run windows and linux in xen
[05:58:51] <CIA-59> David Plauger <Dave.Plauger at Sun dot COM>: 6762012 sun4v systems panic when running T.osiface test with Nevada build 100 or higher
[05:58:53] <CIA-59> Liane Praza <Liane.Praza at Sun dot COM>: 6769649 wrong property group type for "options" in startd template
[05:58:53] <CIA-59> Miles Xu, Sun Microsystems <Min.Xu at Sun dot COM>: 6727113 e1000g performance regression is observed with large connection and packet size if LSO is enabled, 6756917 LSO is not enabled on some e1000g chips
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[06:10:07] <moazamraja>  sooo, this Fishworks stuff, any chance it'll be in Solaris, just to use on built-in storage?
[06:10:13] <moazamraja> (meaning, the GUI)
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[06:12:15] <_mary_kate_> i was wondering about that, but it's hard to see how sun will make money from hardware sales if anyone can download the software
[06:12:36] <purserj> support?
[06:12:44] <_mary_kate_> that's working well so far ;)
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[06:16:05] <FloridaBSD> _mary_kate_: Ever major sofware/hardware solutions prived with teh acception of microasoft hase reaalizrd and captolized on giving there flagship products away  accepted microsoft wich gouges you for windows and office. the days of propritary soft/hardware combinations are all but over.
[06:16:28] * _mary_kate_ tries to decipher that
[06:16:57] <_mary_kate_> if giving away software is such a good idea, why is microsoft still doing well, but sun is losing money every quarter?
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[06:21:07] <FloridaBSD> _mary_kate_: The priciples of free market economics have proven over and over that given the right market and time poisitioning almost any business model will work. ass matter of fact i happen to hold Stock in sun, and my gut tells me that i can stand to gain substailly by just letting the freemarket systtem worjk though this temporary downturn.
[06:21:34] <_mary_kate_> a free market doesn't magically make a company successful.  you have to have a good product and a way to make money from it
[06:22:24] <jbk> sun's biggest issue is their inability to sell the technology they have
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[06:22:32] <jbk> the technology isn't the problem
[06:22:37] <jbk> for the most part
[06:22:42] <FloridaBSD> _mary_kate_: IMHO a a free market and a socially responible business model can yeild high returns.
[06:23:01] <jbk> go walk into a sun office with a briefcase full of money and tell them you want to buy a server
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[06:23:09] <jbk> whatch as they say 'no'
[06:23:10] <jbk> :)
[06:23:13] <_mary_kate_> FloridaBSD: then why is sun losing money?
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[06:26:24] <FloridaBSD> _mary_kate_: of course companies are losing mone, due i n large part to the economic hadship that hte last four years of presdent Bush's pro big business poices which did nothing but incourafge windfall buness for coorution and greed IMHo bigg money+walstreet=economic faliur.
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[06:28:05] <_mary_kate_> oh, it's the government's fault
[06:29:23] <FloridaBSD> Sun is losing mone because they can't get short term loans due in part to the Credit Crunch
[06:29:34] <_mary_kate_> they were losing money long before that
[06:29:40] <e^ipi> then explain the last 8 years
[06:29:55] <e^ipi> and they're not losing money, they're losing value per share
[06:31:53] <spiff> is there any way to "un-sparse" an ipkg zone?
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[06:32:16] <FloridaBSD> IMHO the reson sun is losing valer pershare  is because of greed on wallstreet and Lack of commercial paper.
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[06:40:38] <moazamraja> FloridaB1D: sooo...why were losing money YEARS before all this economy stuff?
[06:40:48] <moazamraja> you know, while every other company did well
[06:40:49] <delewis> FloridaBSD: neither of those are directly affecting Sun. What is affecting Sun is that other companies cannot get commercial paper, loans, etc. to buy the enterprise gear.
[06:41:33] <moazamraja> FloridaB1D: btw, your original assumption on every company giving shit away for free and mkaing money is bull
[06:41:45] <moazamraja> IBM charges a pretty penny for it's software, even for AIX
[06:41:56] <moazamraja> u buy an IBM Power machine, u still have to buy an AIX license
[06:42:11] <delewis> AIX is (technically) free, moazamraja.
[06:42:17] <moazamraja> BEA, Oracle, Microsoft, they do not give their software away for free
[06:42:21] <delewis> you purchase a support contract /w the purchase of the hardware.
[06:42:26] <moazamraja> delewis: not for production environments
[06:42:32] <delewis> IBM doesn't sell AIX as a standalone product.
[06:42:44] <moazamraja> delw: there is a line item for AIX when u buy your product
[06:42:45] <delewis> it's packaged with the hardware, so you can't really assign a cost to it.
[06:42:54] <moazamraja> there was when we bought our P595 boxes
[06:43:00] <moazamraja> and the AIX blades I just got it
[06:43:01] <delewis> moazamraja: yes, and that's for the support/maintenance software contract.
[06:43:03] <moazamraja> it = in
[06:43:15] <moazamraja> $600 is for support/maint software contract?
[06:43:20] <delewis> that's not the license, really, which is implicit with the hardware and support/maintenance software contract.
[06:43:25] <moazamraja> no, i'm pretty sure we pay a heck of a lot more than that
[06:46:05] <FloridaBSD> AIX is kind of quasi free if you have to pay an arm and a leg for it.
[06:46:30] <moazamraja> so like i said, companies that are making good money are NOT giving away their software for free
[06:46:59] <moazamraja> the companies who do make money and give 1-2 pieces of lower-end software for free, that's slightly different
[06:47:06] <moazamraja> but Sun? different game.
[06:48:14] <FloridaBSD> Sun opted to Sel lhardware and gie there sofware away  with the acception of Jave Run Time enterprise addition.
[06:49:10] <_mary_kate_> yes, and now they're not making any money... funny, that ;)
[06:49:17] <moazamraja> FloridaB1D: yeah, that doesn't work.
[06:49:34] <moazamraja> oh, and Apple charges for it's software too
[06:49:36] <moazamraja> OS and apps
[06:49:45] <moazamraja> even tho it's much less (for apps), typically
[06:50:11] <moazamraja> IBM opted to sell hardware, software, and services
[06:50:17] <moazamraja> and are making crazy money
[06:50:28] <FloridaBSD> IMHO the days
[06:50:29] <FloridaBSD> of propritary soft/hardware combinations are all but over.
[06:50:57] <FloridaBSD> IMHO The days of propritary soft/hardware combinations are all but over.
[06:51:11] <_mary_kate_> yeah, with microsoft about to go out of business, and Sun making millions from solaris support, it's clear open source is the future
[06:51:13] <jbk> are they really making money or is it more accounting tricks due to the fact that IBM is almost more bank than hardware/software company?
[06:51:40] <moazamraja> jbk: working for a company who pays IBM, i seriously doubt it's accounting tricks
[06:52:01] <jbk> it seems a lot of their 'profit' is tied to financing they are giving their customers
[06:52:02] <moazamraja> FloridaB1D: IMNSHO, that's absolute bullshit.
[06:52:32] <FloridaBSD> Sun has to be doing somthing right w i mean purchasing MYSQL has to benifit them in one matter or anther
[06:52:35] * _mary_kate_ tried to buy some sun software once and was told by sales that they aren't interesting to selling it to small businesses
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[06:53:17] <moazamraja> FloridaB1D: purchasing a company with 30 Million Revenue/Year, for $1 BILLION </DrEvil>, you think that was a good idea?
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[06:53:53] <FloridaBSD> Sun is the only Server side os manufacturer that i know of to date that sells there server software for thirty-five USD.
[06:54:06] <delewis> BUT IT'S MYSQL SO IT MUST BE A GOOD, RIGHT? </sarcasm>
[06:54:36] <moazamraja> FloridaB1D: and has 30,000+ employees that it's having trouble keeping employed
[06:54:41] <_mary_kate_> uh, solaris is free, unless you want support, in which case it's much more than $35
[06:54:56] <moazamraja> FloridaB1D: you like Sun because it seems they are running a charity?
[06:55:01] <moazamraja> that's not very good for shareholders
[06:55:08] <FloridaBSD> I know that _mary_kate_
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[06:56:02] <FloridaBSD> as matter of fact that is why a purchase shares of Sun back before the change there tickersymbol to JAVA.
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[06:58:49] <CIA-59> Cheng Sean Ye <Sean.Ye at Sun dot COM>: 6683636 amd_mc_create() calls topo_node_fru_set() incorrectly, 6647103 extend fmdump -c so it can apply class filter to faults within suspect lists., 6762864 need to add "present" topo method for x86 rank node, 6767827 str2nvl of hc scheme can't handle page offset/physaddr > LLONG_MAX, 6683632 amd_mc_create() abuses 'nerrp'
[06:58:51] <CIA-59> guoqing zhu - Sun Microsystems - Beijing China <Guoqing.Zhu at Sun dot COM>: 6767150 USB flash disk from Transcend is not usable
[06:58:52] <CIA-59> Norm Jacobs <Norm.Jacobs at Sun dot COM>: 6768195 SUNWipplu is missing dependency, 6724857 tooltip/name of "Print Monitor" entry in Preferences menu should be updated
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[07:01:49] <spiff> so: is there any way to "un-sparse" an ipkg zone?
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[07:08:05] <codestr0m> spiff: un-sparse.. I'm not familiar with that term, but I've only been awake for like 5 minutes.. you mean you want more or less packages in the zone?
[07:08:47] <jbk> i think basically change from loopback mounting /usr, etc. to being copies
[07:09:24] <codestr0m> oh. just not inherit from the global zone.. (I forget exact syntax.... still booting :P)
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[07:46:49] <mshadle> i just reinstalled snv_98 on top of a existing rpool mirror, but did not touch my existing zfs dataset. however it did not get auto detected. how can i discover another zfs filesystem
[07:46:58] <_mary_kate_> zpool import
[07:47:28] <mshadle> bash-3.2# zpool import
[07:47:28] <mshadle>   pool: tank
[07:47:28] <mshadle>     id: 16166900057552437699
[07:47:29] <mshadle>  state: ONLINE
[07:47:29] <mshadle> status: The pool was last accessed by another system.
[07:47:29] <mshadle> action: The pool can be imported using its name or numeric identifier and
[07:47:30] <mshadle>         the '-f' flag.
[07:47:32] <mshadle>    see: http://www.sun.com/msg/ZFS-8000-EY
[07:47:34] <mshadle> config:
[07:47:38] <spiff> codestr0m: I have some zones installed with brand ipkg, and inherit-pkg-dir /usr, /platform, /lib, etc...
[07:47:42] <_mary_kate_> please, stop pasting
[07:48:33] <mshadle> okay, well, what is that issue then
[07:48:57] <_mary_kate_> http://www.sun.com/msg/ZFS-8000-EY
[07:49:03] <mshadle> yeha. well i ran zfs import -f
[07:49:06] <mshadle> still no difference
[07:49:20] <mshadle> oh there. -f tank
[07:49:20] <_mary_kate_> you have to specify the pool name to import it
[07:49:49] <e^ipi> <mshadle> yeha. well i ran zfs import -f without reading the documentation and instead choosing to annoy a bunch of people on IRC
[07:50:30] <e^ipi> the manpages are lovely
[07:50:37] <mshadle> sorry i missed 'the name' i only saw 'the numeric identifier'
[07:50:38] <e^ipi> they keep you from embarassing yourself publicly
[07:50:45] <fraggeln> e^ipi: what is a man page? :D
[07:50:51] <fraggeln> is it a pager for men? :)
[07:50:57] <mshadle> half the manpages are dated or confusing
[07:51:15] <e^ipi> yes, the ones in usr/gnu and usr/sfw
[07:51:26] <e^ipi> the ones for solaris are kept up to date by engineering discipline
[07:51:29] <e^ipi> usually
[07:52:26] <e^ipi> for that matter, the ones online on docs.sun.com that follow S10 are usually not too far off the mark
[07:52:29] <mshadle> i learn better asking a specific question and getting a specific answer. not reading through long docs. half the time i read docs i pick out options and have to ask 'is this what i want?'
[07:52:45] <e^ipi> and then you think about it, and learn more than you had planned on
[07:53:02] <e^ipi> which is always a good thing, because then you remember it later
[07:53:11] <e^ipi> instead of having to ask questions for every silly little thing
[07:53:12] <mshadle> no, i ask, and then i remember it, assuming i get an answer
[07:53:20] <e^ipi> you remember the answer to that question
[07:53:32] <e^ipi> next time, when you have a slightly different question, you're lost again
[07:53:40] <e^ipi> whereas reading the docs, you won't be
[07:54:13] <mshadle> nah, i know how i learn
[07:54:41] <mshadle> it seems funky i can zfs import and it seems like it is trying to import everything it finds. only natural to try -f
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[07:56:11] <e^ipi> it doesn't import everything it finds, it doesn't import anything at all unless you pass it some idea of what exactly it should be importing
[07:56:30] <mshadle> i get it now.
[07:56:39] <e^ipi> reading is fun.
[07:57:05] <mshadle> and fyi.. irc is reading too ;)
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[07:57:22] <e^ipi> no, irc is annoying other people who are just going to point you at the docs
[07:58:03] <mshadle> ive received 99% of the questions i've asked via irc. easier to talk to a human
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[07:59:00] <e^ipi> then you've shortchanged yourself
[07:59:16] <mshadle> that's just your opinion
[07:59:25] <e^ipi> imagine all the peripheral knowledge you could've picked up along the way
[07:59:40] <mshadle> i usually try google first but with the amount of outdated and misc. crap i find it quicker to ask realtime.
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[07:59:52] <e^ipi> quicker still to check the man pages
[08:00:00] <mshadle> the problem with documentation is it gets dated quick and it winds up compounding into too much reading
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[08:00:10] <e^ipi> it doesn't get dated quick actually
[08:00:26] <e^ipi> putbacks typically come with man page updates
[08:01:08] <mshadle> i was trying to do something the other day on my sxce box and the commands on sun's site didnt even exist.
[08:01:10] <e^ipi> assuming anything to which the manual refers gets changed
[08:01:34] <e^ipi> the ones on sun's site are accurate as per S10
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[08:02:01] <e^ipi> the ones on your system in /usr/man are accurate as per the system they came with
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[09:28:43] <DTEIT> morning
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[10:03:00] <trygvis> anyone having issues with pidgin on b101? whenever the MSN account connect it segfaults
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[10:37:38] <TT> hi whats the difference betwenn os build 101a and 200811rc1?
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[10:47:05] <e^ipi> TT: the same as the difference between fedora 9 and kernel version 2.6.24
[10:47:23] <e^ipi> one is some code that the other is built on
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[10:49:43] <TT> ah oki
[10:49:46] <TT> thx
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[11:35:36] <kimc> there has been some discussion about using a certain nvram card to provide a seperate 'slog' space for a ZFS filesystem
[11:36:06] <kimc> This is the card: http://www.mish.co.jp/datasheet/vmetro/MM-5425CN.pdf
[11:36:31] <kimc> you can get 'em here: http://www.printsavings.com/Search.aspx?key=MM5425&SearchGo.x=9&SearchGo.y=8
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[11:40:07] <kimc> some performance numbers using this card are here: http://blogs.sun.com/perrin/entry/slog_blog_or_blogging_on
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[11:40:51] <_mary_kate_> what about it?  separate zil is pretty old now
[11:42:37] <kimc> the unsupported solaris drivers are here: http://www.averysilly.com/Micro_Memory_MM-5425CN.zip
[11:44:17] <kimc> theres even and HCL listing here: http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/hcl/data/components/details/259.html
[11:49:16] <kimc> when i try to use pkgadd on: umem_Sol_Drv_Cust_i386_v01_10.pkg
[11:49:19] <kim0> Hi .. I wanna build a cheapo storage box with solaris ... which solaris should I run to offer max stability ? 2008.11 ?
[11:49:23] <kimc> it fails on 2008.11
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[11:51:27] <kim0> I guess either 2008.11 or S10U6 .. ?
[11:51:59] <kim0> I'd prefer 200x.x as they're more modern .. if u guys say their stability is close to S10U6
[11:52:52] <trochej> More modern?
[11:52:54] <trochej> Uhm
[11:52:54] <tynar> how can I lest all IP addresses?
[11:53:03] <trochej> kim0: I'd say, more bleeding edge
[11:53:06] <trochej> And less tested
[11:53:13] <trygvis> tynar: ipconfig -a
[11:53:27] <tynar> trygviz,
[11:53:29] <tynar> tnxx
[11:54:24] <kimc> i wouldn't recommend 2008.11 at this time, go with the latest sxde from: https://cds.sun.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/CDS-CDS_SMI-Site/en_US/-/USD/ViewProductDetail-Start?ProductRef=Sol-Express_b101-FULL-x86-SP-G-B@CDS-CDS_SMI
[11:55:56] <kimc> i've got 2008.11 running now and its easier to install so it may be better.. depends
[11:56:34] <kimc> sxce 101 has tcsh :)
[11:58:02] <kimc> the 2008.11-rc1 (release candidate) may have a problem running on my hardware.. previous install was b96 and no issues
[11:59:00] <kimc> numerous previous installs back to the b50's had no problems on this hardware either, fwiw
[11:59:27] <kimc> i'll install b101 later today and check it out
[12:00:39] <kimc> the above link is to sxce not sxde btw.. use sxce
[12:05:35] <dustman> kim0: if you want support contract - solaris 10
[12:05:56] <dustman> and stable versions are not bad
[12:06:07] <dustman> plus they are *stable*
[12:07:15] <trochej> Yup
[12:07:25] <trochej> There is a reason that stable means stable :)
[12:07:40] <_mary_kate_> don't get SXDE, it doesn't exist anymore.  use SXCE
[12:08:08] <trochej> kim0: You want it on server?
[12:08:31] <Alasdairrr> Does anyone here have a Sun Fire x2250?
[12:08:42] <trochej> I have a coffee
[12:09:57] <kimc> yes sxde was a typo
[12:10:04] <Alasdairrr> Coffee is almost better
[12:11:30] <Alasdairrr> Does the iLom on your coffee present it's ethernet port to the OS?
[12:11:53] <Alasdairrr> It does on the x2100 series but not (that I know of) on the x4100 series, I have no idea about the x2250 series
[12:11:54] <trochej> Of course it does
[12:12:08] <trochej> And it is highly available and crunches numbers like no other
[12:12:09] <trochej> :)
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[12:18:49] <codestr0m> How do I fix this for sun cc?  parameter redeclared: __restrict .. extern size_t (*__mbrtowc)(wchar_t * __restrict, const char * __restrict,    size_t, mbstate_t * __restrict);
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[12:19:43] <codestr0m> (I can guess, but I don't like the answer)
[12:21:12] <_mary_kate_> #define __restrict restrict  ? (where does __restrict come from?)
[12:22:33] <codestr0m> I'll look at the preprocessed output again
[12:29:09] <codestr0m> _mary_kate_: yeah. there's no #define in the preprocessed output. it's a parameter in this case.. rval = __mbrtowc( 0 , s, n, &mbs);
[12:29:47] <_mary_kate_> it's almost certainly meant to be defined as either 'restrict' or the empty string
[12:30:01] <_mary_kate_> (presumably depending on whether the compiler supports c99)
[12:30:15] <codestr0m> (sun cc)
[12:30:21] <_mary_kate_> it does
[12:31:00] <_mary_kate_> there's probably some code somewhere that does  #if __STDC__ > 199901L #define __restrict restrict #else #define restrict #endif
[12:31:09] <_mary_kate_> except since you get that error, someone probably forgot to include it
[12:31:26] <codestr0m> k
[12:31:59] <codestr0m> this is also annoying cc: -xc99=lib is not available on SunOS 5.11
[12:33:41] <_mary_kate_> that's probably the check for solaris < 10, which doesn't support it in libc... i guess they didn't get around to updating it for nevada
[12:35:28] <codestr0m> it doesn't actually give that outside the chroot though.. so not sure what's causing it
[12:35:42] <codestr0m> maybe some unknown uname/version
[12:35:52] <tynar> how does gtk find out the old installed glib, i have renamed all the folder of old glib and installed from source, however, gtk find outs the old glib. I don't want to use crle, i want to know where does gtk look, are the settings stored by autotools?
[12:36:01] <codestr0m> _mary_kate_: adding #if __STDC__ > 199901L #define __restrict restrict #else #define restrict #endif didn't resolve it
[12:36:32] <codestr0m> tynar: you could check the search path for the lib
[12:36:47] <_mary_kate_> codestr0m: remove the typos
[12:36:57] <tynar> codestr0m, what is search path?
[12:37:03] <_mary_kate_> should be >= to check for C99, and you want to #define __restrict, not restrict
[12:38:40] <tynar> codestr0m, pc files? pkg-config finds new glib installed
[12:39:34] <tynar> but there is a weird error, that there was found old glib too, like check pkg-config, ldconfig, and so on,
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[12:40:48] <codestr0m> tynar: you can see where it's going to search with  ldd -s /usr/bin/amd64/libfoo.so
[12:41:08] <codestr0m> however, I'm pretty sure that's not going to help you
[12:41:29] <tynar> ), tnx code
[12:41:35] <tynar> i will look
[12:41:38] <tynar> try
[12:43:16] <codestr0m> tynar: you're almost certainly going to have to recompile.. just a guess. . and make sure you get your -I correct :P
[12:44:15] <tynar> cppflags?
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[13:16:51] <_coredump_> mahlzeit
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[13:35:24] <Welshman> I am going to install opensolaris later will it be possible to have some network card help please here?
[13:35:30] <ofu> has anybody tried to use cache-devices on Sol10U6?
[13:36:08] <ofu> Welshman: if the card is supported, fill /etc/hostname.$card0 with an IP address, /etc/defaultrouter and /etc/netmasks
[13:36:39] <Welshman> ok, the hardware test pointed me to a 3rd party driver which I got
[13:36:54] <Welshman> just getting the iso now
[13:36:55] <ofu> what network card are you using?
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[13:37:12] <Welshman> marvell contraption
[13:37:46] <ofu> never heard of it, whats the name of the driver?
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[13:38:43] <Welshman> http://homepage2.nifty.com/mrym3/taiyodo/eng/ take a look at #21
[13:38:59] <Welshman> pretty sue thats the one I need
[13:39:07] <Welshman> *sure
[13:40:16] <Welshman> thing is mine is 8056
[13:40:26] <Welshman> but I think it is probably covered
[13:41:14] <Welshman> I thought ethernet was simple these days, I guess not
[13:41:23] <ofu>  /etc/driver_aliases will tell you, this file maps PCI dev/vendor ID to modules
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[13:41:46] <Welshman> ok, will save this info for when I install
[13:42:12] <Welshman> os with out internet pretty much sucks :)
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[13:43:41] <bakarat> how does opensolaris fare as a media centric OS?
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[13:44:11] <Welshman> music is probably no problem
[13:44:33] <bakarat> Welshman: does that mean video is? :p
[13:44:39] <codestr0m> bakarat: very poorly unless you are patient, determined and or don't mind using binary bits from 3rd parties
[13:44:42] <Welshman> not tried it yet
[13:44:46] <Welshman> :)
[13:44:47] <bakarat> codestr0m: ah damn :p
[13:44:57] <codestr0m> bakarat: the situation will get a lot better I think
[13:45:03] <bakarat> i wanted to create a base OS for media stuff, and run VMs on it for working
[13:45:04] <codestr0m> which codec do you need?
[13:45:13] <codestr0m> well
[13:45:24] <codestr0m> my testing shows the kernel and sun cc optimization is great for that
[13:45:24] <bakarat> (opensolaris would be the choice because of zfs hehe)
[13:45:35] <Welshman> streaming flash should not be a problem as well
[13:45:57] <bakarat> Welshman: codestr0m does gstreamer work on opensolaris?
[13:45:58] <Welshman> but actually playing a simple dvd, well :)
[13:46:16] <bakarat> hehehe :>
[13:46:19] <Welshman> bakarat new here, just getting the iso
[13:46:52] <spiff> oops.
[13:47:12] <Welshman> running Ibex at the mo
[13:47:18] <Welshman> smooth as ice
[13:47:38] <Welshman> and Vista
[13:48:25] <bakarat> Welshman: currently my base system is ubuntu 7.10 with a 8.10 desktop vm for working and 8.10 server with svn etc
[13:48:35] <Welshman> btw does opensolaris install and dual boot fine with vista?
[13:48:56] <Welshman> never used the vm stuff
[13:49:18] <Welshman> seems to defeat the object, a bit like wine in linux
[13:50:06] <bakarat> Welshman: i like VMs a _lot_ :p
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[13:50:34] <bakarat> keeps my system clean
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[13:50:37] <Welshman> I will have to try it actually, my new pc will not install my beloved SuSE 9
[13:50:45] <bakarat> :>
[13:50:59] <bakarat> at work i just start a new clean vm for each project
[13:51:19] <bakarat> and i can just pass the vm around for people who need to test the project
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[13:52:54] <kim0> I'm streaming from /dev/zero to 6 disks (3 mirrors) and getting 27.9M/s total throughput (zpool iostat) ... that SUX right ??
[13:53:03] <Welshman> I hope opensolaris start to bundle the network drivers more
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[13:54:25] <kim0> a single disk should get 60M/s easy right ?
[13:54:40] <kim0> it's just dd from /dev/zero
[13:54:42] <Welshman> opensolaris is downloading nice via torrent =max :)
[13:54:48] <jbit> kim0: increase the block size maybe?
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[13:54:59] <jbit> if you're using 512byte blocks you'll get super kernel overhead
[13:55:12] <kim0> jbit: how do I check if that's the case
[13:55:18] <jbit> prstat maybe
[13:55:25] <kim0> jbit: in dd ... I have bs=1M
[13:55:30] <kim0> is that what u mean
[13:55:33] <jbit> that should be okay
[13:55:38] <jbit> yes bs means block size
[13:55:42] <kim0> ah
[13:55:48] <kim0> so it's pure crappy hardware ?
[13:55:55] <jbit> could be
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[13:56:03] <jbit> you might be saturating hte bus
[13:56:05] <kim0> jbit: I mean for 6 spindles .. that is really low correct ?
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[13:56:12] <jbit> that is really low
[13:56:33] <kim0> areca card !
[13:56:47] <jbit> if the sata/whatever controller is on a normal pci (not pcie/pcix) bus you'll saturate it very fast
[13:57:04] <kim0> how to check
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[13:59:03] <codestr0m> doesn't zfs optimize for /dev/zero ?
[13:59:26] <jbit> codestr0m: dont think so
[13:59:46] <codestr0m> I tested it the other day and maybe I was doing something wrong, but seemed to
[13:59:53] <Stric> with compression on, yes.
[13:59:56] <dustman> http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/387175_msftsun11.html?source=rss
[14:00:14] <dustman> very very interesting way of doing buisness
[14:00:31] <jbit> i mean on my system at home i get about 150mbyte/sec raidz write performance, and about 220mbyte/sec raidz read performance
[14:00:39] <jbit> (sustained, i can peak higher)
[14:01:19] <codestr0m> Stric: what's a better way to test this if compression is on and I don't dare turn it off.. dd if=/dev/urandom of=foo bs=1024k count=30
[14:01:37] <Stric> codestr0m: zfs get compression yourfilesystem
[14:01:46] <jbit> urandom is somewhat slow
[14:01:55] <Alasdairrr> Entropy is hard to come by
[14:01:59] <Stric> and why don't you dare turn it off? it's just a setting for how new files should be treated
[14:02:42] <codestr0m> Stric: oh. I thought it would start a background worker to also uncompress the files
[14:02:46] <Stric> no
[14:02:48] <codestr0m> (should have known better)
[14:02:57] <codestr0m> ok. it's off. sec
[14:03:23] <Stric> and what people said, don't use /dev/urandom if you want any other benchmark than "how fast can I get data from /dev/urandom?"
[14:03:31] <Stric> cause it's slow
[14:03:50] <codestr0m> 104857600 bytes (105 MB) copied, 0.0815738 seconds, 1.3 GB/s
[14:04:03] <jbit> that sounds like it hit cache
[14:04:09] <Stric> use at least twice your ram
[14:04:12] <codestr0m> yeah.. I'm not sure how to get around that
[14:04:17] <codestr0m> eeek..
[14:04:18] <jbit> transfer more
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[14:05:02] <jbit> i usually do 5gigs for testing
[14:05:25] <codestr0m> k. I'll do 5G
[14:05:31] <trygvis> or just call dd+sync
[14:05:54] <jbit> or use zpool iostat
[14:05:56] <codestr0m> the other problem is that when disk writes are happening.. sometimes it locks up the whole desktop for a few seconds
[14:06:18] <jbit> codestr0m: that sounds like ou have comprssion enabled
[14:06:24] <jbit> compression is quite cpu intensive
[14:07:05] <codestr0m> rpool/export/home                   compression  off                                 default
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[14:08:06] <codestr0m> zpool iostat looks like about 20-26M/ps
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[14:08:20] <codestr0m> 4752146432 bytes (4.8 GB) copied, 173.988 seconds, 27.3 MB/s
[14:08:44] <jbit> sounds like you're saturating your bus
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[14:09:05] <jbit> iirc when i was using my old server (pci based sata controllers) i was getting simialr performance
[14:09:11] <codestr0m> hdparm in linux iirc would report around 50MB/s (however. not sure if it was writing and not the same as this at all)
[14:09:14] <jbit> (with a three disk raidZ)
[14:09:26] <jbit> hdparm is always reading
[14:09:28] <codestr0m> jbit: it's a laptop and using pci-e
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[14:12:09] <codestr0m> thanks guys.. I'll make a note of this
[14:13:51] <codestr0m> Tygrys^: adding conv=sync didn't turn off the caching (is it supposed to?)
[14:14:01] <codestr0m> trygvis: ^
[14:14:34] <trygvis> conv=sync doesn't call sync
[14:15:50] <codestr0m> trygvis: ok sorry.. not sure what you meant then.
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[14:16:15] <codestr0m> fsync does appear to
[14:17:03] <trygvis> time bash -c "dd if=/dev/zero of=kuk bs=1024 count=1; sync"
[14:17:18] <trygvis> you'll have to calculate the transfer rate by hand though
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[14:18:48] <codestr0m> trygvis: adding conv=fsync makes it accurate
[14:19:17] <trygvis> ah, nice
[14:19:31] <codestr0m> yeah. indeed.. thanks for the tip
[14:20:34] <codestr0m> victori: you paying attention? dd if=/dev/zero of=foobar2 bs=1024k count=100 conv=fsync should help give you some idea about your real drive speed
[14:20:39] <codestr0m> run that and let me know what you get
[14:23:14] <jbit> 104857600 bytes (105 MB) copied, 0.649689 s, 161 MB/s
[14:23:16] <jbit> mmm ;P
[14:24:54] <codestr0m> jbit: is that your laptop :P
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[14:25:50] <jbit> nope
[14:25:51] <jbit> server
[14:26:11] <jbit> my laptos hdd gets about 30mbyte/sec write
[14:27:43] <Berny>  .oO(104857600 bytes (105 MB) copied, 0.316414 seconds, 331 MB/s)
[14:28:00] <trygvis> dd: bad argument: "fsync"
[14:28:02] <trygvis> O.o
[14:28:05] <Berny> hehe
[14:28:32] <trygvis> you're not using the default dd?
[14:28:42] <Stric> a benchmark that lasts 0.3 secs isn't a benchmark
[14:28:55] <jbit> Stric: indeed ;P
[14:28:55] <TomJ> I also get bad argument fsync, that's on Sol 10 u5
[14:29:06] <Stric> there's no stable value to be found there
[14:29:10] <trygvis> I'm on b101
[14:29:13] <Stric> do something that takes 30 secs or so
[14:29:14] <Berny> /opt/sfw/bin/dd
[14:29:20] <jbit> [jbit@miku]~$ dd --version
[14:29:20] <jbit> dd (coreutils) 6.7
[14:29:25] <jbit> guess i'm using gnu dd
[14:31:35] <TomJ> /opt/sfw/bin/dd if=/dev/zero of=/sftp/foobar2 bs=1024k count=10000 conv=fsync
[14:31:45] <TomJ> 10485760000 bytes (10 GB) copied, 60.2128 seconds, 174 MB/s
[14:31:54] <jbit> 4294967296 bytes (4.3 GB) copied, 26.5347 s, 162 MB/s
[14:32:16] <TomJ> that's on a 4GB/s SAN, one ZFS to a single LUN  (not sure if that can be load balanced across multiple HBAs)
[14:32:47] <trygvis> I'm getting ~60MB/s on my desktop
[14:32:55] <trygvis> but that is with a sas 15k rpm drive
[14:33:13] <codestr0m> yeah. mine is just a poor little Hitachi 7k160
[14:34:02] <Berny> 10485760000 bytes (10 GB) copied, 35.3817 seconds, 296 MB/s
[14:34:16] <TomJ> Berny: what hardware is that?
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[14:35:46] <Berny> thumper
[14:36:23] <Berny> 6 raidz2 groups, 7 disks each in a pool (plus mirror log devs)
[14:36:32] <Berny> shouldn't i get more out of this?
[14:36:59] <seanmcg> raidz2 can restrict performance more so than raidz
[14:37:42] <Berny> .oO(and turn off compression *gg*)
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[14:46:52] <tynar> which functions are used in ifconfig?
[14:47:03] <_mary_kate_> all of them?
[14:47:07] <trygvis> what kind of functions?
[14:47:14] <tynar> now, just inconfig -a
[14:47:18] <_mary_kate_> if the functions weren't used, they wouldn't exist
[14:47:19] <tynar> list all ips
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[14:48:28] <tynar> sorry for my incorrect typing ), I want to know how can I write a program which will list all IP addresses as in ifconfig -a
[14:49:21] <_mary_kate_> look at the source on src.opensolaris.org
[14:49:40] <tynar> tnx mary
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[15:13:12] <jrms> There is any way to see which proccess is using the disk?
[15:13:37] <jrms> I have a lot of disk usage, but I don't know from which process...
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[15:17:00] <seanmcg> jrms, use  iosnoop from the dtrace toolkit
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[15:23:49] <jrms> seanmcg: ok, thanks
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[15:55:49] <Asako> has anybody noticed their NIC going up and down when scping a large file?
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[15:56:40] <Asako> Nov 11 09:52:50 mistakes.liquidweb.com mac: [ID 486395 kern.info] NOTICE: rtls0 link down
[15:56:40] <Asako> Nov 11 09:52:52 mistakes.liquidweb.com mac: [ID 435574 kern.info] NOTICE: rtls0 link up, 100 Mbps, full duplex
[15:56:42] <Asako> etc.
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[16:00:43] <FrostCS> nope, stable as can be here.
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[16:00:51] <piwi> yes, saw this several times using a realtek card. not only limited to scp.
[16:01:29] <piwi> (switched nic to fix it)
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[16:07:09] <eljak> Hi, if i have dual boot with another OS (linux), how can i know the linux partitions names under /dev/dsk ?
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[16:11:15] <kjs_> Is there a kernel parameter that would allow a crash dump to be saved to a usb thumb drive when booting the live cd?
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[16:46:19] <proberts> anyone using Sun Cluster Express?
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[16:49:44] <Asako> I just installed it the other day
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[16:52:28] <Asako> but now I'm trying AVS
[16:54:04] <jbit> Asako: i had that on my old server
[16:54:26] <jbit> realtek nic again
[16:54:44] <jbit> it sounds like a hardware bug or so that solaris isnt patchign round
[16:55:12] <Asako> probably
[16:55:21] <Asako> the thing is every box we have uses realtek
[16:55:41] <Asako> I could use gigabit cards instead I guess
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[16:58:52] <CIA-59> Rich Morris <Richard.Morris at Sun dot COM>: 6386929 initial "zfs list" is slow, 6755389 Initial run of any zfs command that iterates over datasets can be slow, 6758338 zfs list should list all explicitly requested snapshots
[16:59:21] *** wewek has left #opensolaris
[17:01:51] <kjs_>  osol-0811-101a-rc1b.iso livecd won't boot
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[17:10:47] <Asako> I've noticed on some boxes that the cd only gives me a grub prompt
[17:11:22] <kjs_> I can get past the grub prompt but the system locks up dumps some messages(too quickly for me to read) then reboots
[17:11:50] <kjs_> I tried the -kv kernel param but the keyboard is locked up so I can't use it?
[17:11:57] <comay> kjs_, you can load the debugger by typing "e" and then adding a "-k" to the end of the kernel$ line
[17:11:58] <Asako> is there a gui package manager in sxce?
[17:12:17] <kjs_> comay but my keyboard is locked up
[17:12:17] <comay> Asako, nope
[17:12:32] <Asako> I want to get rid of the extra junk
[17:12:36] <comay> kjs_, you mean your keyboard is locked up at the grub menu?
[17:12:47] <comay> Asako, you'll need to use the CLI for that
[17:12:59] <comay> or customize your install to not install it in the first place
[17:13:03] <Asako> yeah
[17:13:09] <Asako> I was thinking about doing core and just adding stuff
[17:14:17] <Asako> does pkg handle dependencies?
[17:14:50] <Asako> or does sxce use ips?
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[17:18:31] <kjs_> I'd like to save the crash dump and report a bug.
[17:18:34] <comay> Asako, it doesn't use ips.  and svr4 packaging has a very limited notion of dependencies
[17:18:48] <Asako> ok
[17:18:56] <Asako> I'm just trying to figure out just what sxce is
[17:19:52] <comay> sxce is an opensolaris distribution that uses the legacy/traditional installer and packaging system
[17:20:15] <Asako> ok
[17:20:22] <quasi> a real solaris
[17:20:24] <Asako> AVS wasn't in my osol install either
[17:22:29] <Asako> what's the diff between developer edition and community edition?
[17:22:53] <quasi> developer edition has already been killed off
[17:23:05] <Asako> ok
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[17:23:21] <Asako> it's still on the downloads page
[17:23:56] <quasi> it's just sxce back from b86 and sxce is at 101 now
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[17:26:09] <quasi> with roughly one release going out every two weeks, sxde is more than half a year old
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[17:48:39] <Asako> I'm installing 101
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[18:00:34] <johnfg> hey guys
[18:00:56] <johnfg> I've got opensolaris, the latest, installed on a usb drive.
[18:01:53] <johnfg> It went well, but all I get is a grub shell when I try to boot opensolaris.
[18:03:29] <johnfg> It's installed at /dev/sdb2, and the boot flag is active on that partition.
[18:04:10] <johnfg> Is there a way that I can get to either a grub-install, like linux, or an installgrub, like solaris command to get opensolaris to boot?
[18:04:14] <johnfg> Any other ideas?
[18:05:13] <codestr0m> johnfg: how did you install opensolaris to the usbdrive? usbcopy or what tool?
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[18:06:34] <johnfg> codestr0m, I was running osol-0811-101a-rc1b.iso and chose to install opensolaris.
[18:06:55] <johnfg> No dialogue came up about grub, dual-booting, etc.  No errors either.
[18:08:45] <codestr0m> johnfg: when you boot. you to get an opensolaris branded grub right?
[18:09:02] <Doc> ahh crap - i forgot today was "bring your kids to work" day
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[18:09:44] <johnfg> codestr0m, I don't know.  Can't remember.  Assume that yes, it was.  What next?
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[18:10:46] <codestr0m> johnfg: yes well.. to help you debug this.. you'll need access to that info.. if it's not.. I'm unable to help.. if it is.. I'd say add -v to the kernel boot menu and try to collect more info
[18:11:21] <johnfg> What would be the grub lines to enter if osol-0811-101a-rc1b.iso were on the ide drive?
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[18:12:32] <chrisg>   /win 14
[18:12:33] <chrisg> er
[18:12:34] <chrisg> oops
[18:12:35] <chrisg> :|
[18:14:59] <johnfg> codestr0m, e.g., here's what's in my ide grub at present: http://fpaste.org/paste/105
[18:15:57] <johnfg> I know the way to choose other os's that have been installed on the usb drive would be, hd1,<whatever partition>.
[18:15:59] <codestr0m> johnfg: by the looks of that you need help in #fedora :)
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[18:17:03] <johnfg> codestr0m, No, not really.  Your very kind to help, so, if you're willing, do you know what lines would be in grub for the release candidate?
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[18:19:42] <johnfg> Do you understand my question?
[18:20:46] <johnfg> codestr0m, maybe just the kernel line would be enough?
[18:20:57] <codestr0m> johnfg: I do and I can even guess what you're doing, but if you're trying to get opensolaris on a usb drive.. there's documented ways to do it.. I'd say google for usbcopy.. I haven't used it, but that's the first thing that seems to come to mind
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[18:21:55] <johnfg> I will google usbcopy, but, I'd like to try the other, too, if it wouldn't be too much trouble for you to suggest that kernel line.
[18:22:03] <codestr0m> johnfg: if you're a developer.. have a look at http://www.belenix.org/distributions/belenix_site/?q=behind_the_scenes that'll give you loads of info no behind the scenes stuff
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[18:42:21] <cs02rm0> does anyone know why the opensolaris install cd just boots to a grub prompt in virtualbox? i take it there should be some sort of installer run instead?
[18:43:15] <calumb> yep, it should boot to a desktop environment, on which there's an 'install opensolaris' icon... works in virtualbox for me...
[18:43:37] <calumb> (on OS X)
[18:43:38] <cs02rm0> calumb: ok, thanks, at least i know i should be expecting more! i'll try burning it to a disc.
[18:44:32] <special> hello
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[18:45:11] <special> anybody give me the link to run solaries virtually on windows
[18:45:33] <special> anybody give me the link to run solaries virtually on windo
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[18:46:20] <calumb> special: www.virtualbox.org
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[18:56:24] <codestr0m> Al Hopper isn't in here by chance?
[18:56:41] <codestr0m> feel free to pm me if you know his nick
[18:57:53] <e^ipi> he has email
[18:57:59] <e^ipi> he doesn't really hang out here
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[19:14:47] <FrostCS> you mean not everyone twitters? ;-)
[19:15:46] <vmlemon_> Who doesn't Twitter? Even I eventually ended up using it, despite holding off from the beginning ;)
[19:15:53] * Stric
[19:16:33] <Asako> do I need a separate disk for my metadb?
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[19:20:01] <FrostCS> vmlemon_, I am still fighting the asymilation
[19:20:02] <_Auralis> no, just a small slice if you want to do it correctly, 4mb per metadb
[19:20:18] <Asako> hmm, I don't have any free slices
[19:20:23] <Asako> can I use a zvol?
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[19:20:45] <victori> codestr0m: got it...
[19:20:55] <vmlemon_> I know someone has an account on it, with only a single message stating that they don't actually use it
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[19:23:09] <vmlemon_> Aah, just looked, and they don't even have that message
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[19:38:15] <codestr0m> victori: what's it give if you run that dd?
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[19:45:24] <victori> codestr0m: zfs optimizes for zeros from what I hear, so that bench isn't valid. I took it up with a sun engineer a few months ago.
[19:45:36] <victori> codestr0m: he mentioned not to use zeros
[19:46:11] <codestr0m> victori: turn off compression.. we talked about this hear earlier.. using urandom like you were is not going to give anything accurate at all
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[19:46:32] <victori> codestr0m: we are in a process for shopping for a second server to add a bit of stability, so I guess the point is moot, ill just regulate the current box to a web node
[19:46:33] <codestr0m> zfs get compression
[19:46:34] <victori> compression is off
[19:46:42] <victori> i see
[19:47:00] <codestr0m> k. then I'm curious what the dd will give.. pm if you don't want to pastie here
[19:47:05] <victori> k
[19:48:02] <victori> codestr0m: fsync is a bad argument
[19:48:14] <victori> dd: bad argument: "fsync"
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[19:49:18] <TomJ> in my own test on a Sol 10 U5 box, I got 60MB/s writing to UFS root ut only 38MB/s writing to ZFS.  in both cases the FS were two drives mirrored (identical drives)
[19:49:26] <TomJ> that's from /dev/zero
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[19:49:56] <codestr0m> victori: you tried "dd if=/dev/zero of=foobar2 bs=1024k count=100 conv=fsync" and it says bad argument? can you which dd for me
[19:50:02] <victori_> yes
[19:50:09] <TomJ> codestr0m: solaris dd doesnt have that option, only GNU dd does
[19:50:33] <victori_> 4.6mb/sec w/ gnu dd
[19:50:40] <jamesd> TomJ, check the source to dd,  if you are using it, it has a few tweaks to help benchmarks... such as not doing anything when asked to read/write 0's to filesystems
[19:50:41] <codestr0m> TomJ: k. good to know.
[19:50:55] <victori_> codestr0m: 4.6mb/sec...
[19:50:57] <victori_> ;-(
[19:51:02] <TomJ> it's /usr/gnu/bin/dd on SXCE, OpenSolaris (and that would be default on OS I guess due to its crappy paths).  on Solaris you'd need ot install the SFW coreutils package, then it's /opt/sfw/bin/dd
[19:51:20] <TomJ> jamesd: well the timings dont indicate it's doing nothing
[19:51:41] <codestr0m> victori_: can't be.. which raid controller?
[19:51:56] <victori_> codestr0m: that is what I have been dealing with for the longest time
[19:52:13] <victori_> I had to invent all kinds of wacky async tricks to not bottleneck the db
[19:52:51] <codestr0m> victori_: ok. well in the very near future I'd like to help resolve this or figure out the bottleneck.. also need to know the hw involved..
[19:52:58] <victori_> sec
[19:53:01] <victori_> getting it now
[19:53:06] <codestr0m> if it is indeed a bug this should be filed
[19:53:12] <victori_> I have
[19:53:25] <victori_> the sun engineer behind the driver does not know what is the case
[19:53:39] <victori_> ESB2 Integrated SATA Controller
[19:53:44] <victori_> on a server grade intel mobo
[19:54:30] <victori_> fmadm faulty lists nothing, so no faults
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[19:57:29] <Asako> does metainit require two disks to use?
[19:57:40] <_Auralis> no
[19:57:46] <TomJ> what would be the point of using it with one disk?
[19:57:50] <Asako> testing
[19:57:54] <Asako> d101: Hotspare pool is setup
[19:58:18] <Asako> and can I store the metadb on a zvol?
[19:58:49] <CIA-59> Dina K Nimeh <Dina.Nimeh at Sun dot Com>: 6743213 lofi ioctl filename should be MAXPATHLEN
[20:00:29] <TomJ> so isn't this ZFS tihng meant to be quick?  /opt/sfw/bin/dd  if=/tmp/random_file of=/benchmark.ufs bs=1024k && /opt/sfw/bin/dd  if=/tmp/random_file of=/bigfs/benchmark.zfs bs=1024k  = 65MB/s UFS,  42MB/s ZFS.
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[20:01:06] <_mary_kate_> TomJ: your workload involves constant linear appending to a single file?
[20:01:39] <TomJ> maybe it does!
[20:01:41] <TomJ> no it doesnt
[20:01:50] <TomJ> but is that expected for ZFS to be slower in taht scenario?
[20:02:29] <Stric> TomJ: http://stric.se/tmp/fs.html
[20:02:47] <Stric> TomJ: check first two data columns
[20:03:16] <Stric> write //   means write two in parallel
[20:03:25] <TomJ> interesting
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[20:03:36] <Stric> so in some cases, ufs might be faster
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[20:03:42] <Stric> but in other cases, zfs wins big
[20:04:06] <Stric> I'd rather have the 63..141MB/s scenario than 75..25
[20:04:29] <Stric> so try your workload instead of something you won't do
[20:04:38] <sponix> this 2008.11 RC1 looks promising. I'm starting to think os2008.11 may have a place on a machine yet
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[20:22:59] <codestr0m> anyone see what's wrong with this in sun cc? line 59: syntax error before or at: ws
[20:22:59] <codestr0m> wchar_t *_fgetws(wchar_t *__restrict ws, int n, FILE *__restrict stream)
[20:24:09] <codestr0m> nvm. found it
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[20:51:12] <gonzzor> kim0: I manage to boot from USB memory using 2008.05, didn't work before, but now it does
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[20:51:31] <kim0> gonzzor: cool .. but what about .11 ?
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[20:52:35] <gonzzor> kim0: rc1 doesn't work
[20:54:00] <gonzzor> kim0: I used the os200805.iso, not global or -1 version.
[20:54:22] <kim0> hope someone gets a workaround for .11 soon!
[20:54:30] <kim0> I really dont wanna install .05 now!
[20:55:32] <gonzzor> Yes it would be nice.
[20:55:42] <gonzzor> Gonna try to upgrade and see if it works.
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[21:00:21] <sponix> os2008.11-RC1 is out now on genunix.org
[21:00:36] <sponix> I'm playing with it for testing
[21:00:49] <sponix> wish I had another box, hate running it in Virtualbox
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[21:08:15] <TT2> When I create a new zpool on a new disk can I use this zpool in the next Version of OpenSolaris too? Or have I to destroy and create a new one? So will be there 100% read/write compartibility?
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[21:08:27] <_mary_kate_> you can use the same pool
[21:08:40] <_mary_kate_> you'll probably want to 'zpool upgrade' it, after which you won't be able to use it in older versions
[21:08:53] <_mary_kate_> but that isn't required
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[21:09:47] <codestr0m> _mary_kate_: thanks for your help earlier.. sorry I was so tired and just not making any sense
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[21:11:29] <TT2> ah ok thx
[21:12:33] <TT2> which fs can I read with os build 101a out of the box?
[21:12:49] <_mary_kate_> UFS, ZFS, VFAT, ISO 9660
[21:14:29] <TT2> so I can format a disk with vfat?
[21:14:39] <TT2> and write?
[21:14:43] <_mary_kate_> yes
[21:14:43] <TT2> or only read?
[21:14:46] <_mary_kate_> write
[21:14:53] <TT2> hm cool
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[21:15:47] <gonzzor> How do I get correct behavior of PageUp/Down in text-console? I only get 16z or 22z.
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[21:16:52] <_Auralis> shift+pgup/pgdown ?
[21:18:08] <gonzzor> Well, that is what i'm trying..
[21:18:14] <gonzzor> I only get 16z and 22z
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[21:24:27] <Doc> i got 16z once, but my doctor gave me a creme and it went away...
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[21:30:47] <plavcik> hi I have 2008.11 candidate installed, I like to install SXCE instead, I do not have DVD drive, I downloaded iso, created USB, but my computer do not boot from 16GB USB stick (too big?), gurb yes, but later I get wrong number of cillinders or something similar, I have two disks, I got idea to dd iso to one of disks, boot from it and install SXCE to the other one, will this wok? can I dd DVD iso to disk?
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[21:32:20] <e^ipi> no
[21:32:25] <e^ipi> do you have another machine
[21:32:35] <e^ipi> a laptop, another desktop, server, etc
[21:32:41] <plavcik> yes, but without opensolaris
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[21:32:46] <e^ipi> doesn't matter
[21:32:49] <plavcik> openbsd and linux
[21:33:04] <e^ipi> mount the dvd .iso, export via NFS
[21:33:17] <e^ipi> then download CD1 of SXCE, and install that way
[21:33:36] <e^ipi> use the text based installer. it'll ask if you want to install from disk or from nfs
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[21:35:37] <plavcik> that's a good plan, i have DVD b101 but CD is b98
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[21:36:35] <plavcik> can I somehow utilise, that I have now 2008.11 cand installed , something like mount DVD iso and start it from tehre?
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[21:37:15] <plavcik> or can CD b98 be used for start of install and then access DVD b101?
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[21:38:53] <FloridaBSD> How does one run windows programs under oensolaris, i need to convert my audio library frm mp3 to flac.
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[21:39:43] <sickness> FloridaBSD: wine, search on opensolaris.org for it, there are some howtos
[21:39:50] <sickness> there are even precompiled packages to install it
[21:40:12] <trygvis> I would assume gstreamer could transcode it
[21:40:21] <sickness> otherwise you could go the virtualization route with virtualbox, or xen, or qemu...
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[21:41:07] <plavcik> FloridaBSD: but about conversion mp3 is lossy code, so flac will be not so perfect as WAV to FLAC conv.
[21:41:46] <e^ipi> FloridaBSD, that's silly, why?
[21:41:54] <FloridaBSD> plavcik: Hw about m4p to flac/
[21:41:55] <e^ipi> just download the fluendo plugin
[21:42:06] <e^ipi> m4p is a DRM'ed format, and same deal
[21:42:13] <e^ipi> lossy -> lossless gains you nothing
[21:42:22] <e^ipi> the data's already gone
[21:43:16] <e^ipi> plavcik, yes, you can boot off the b98 CD and install B101
[21:43:31] <plavcik> @e^ipi: thx  I will try that
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[21:48:47] <FloridaBSD> I have installed the fluendo megapack plugins for i386 will they work on sunOpenSolaris for 64bit
[21:48:56] <e^ipi> of course they will
[21:49:01] <e^ipi> most of your userland is 32 bit
[21:50:09] <FloridaBSD> BTW I still can't get sonbird and RhythmBox won't import my mpe tracks
[21:50:39] <jbit> FloridaBSD: the plugins will work assuming whatever is using hte plugins is 32bit to
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[21:50:56] <jbit> you cant link 32bit code into a 64bit app (easily)
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[21:51:54] <FloridaBSD> e^ipi: look at my issue  further up the ways there
[21:52:34] <e^ipi> you sure you downloaded the solaris codecs ?
[21:52:42] <e^ipi> not the linux ones
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[21:54:27] <FloridaBSD> e^ipi: All they sell in the mega pak is Linux
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[21:54:54] <e^ipi> then it obviously won't work
[21:54:58] <e^ipi> since it's not linux
[21:55:09] <e^ipi> now, they do have an mp3 codec for solaris
[21:55:13] <e^ipi> and it works
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[21:56:41] <e^ipi> ( i'm really not sure why you thought a linux library would work on anything other than linux )
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[21:57:03] <codestr0m> e^ipi: when you originally did your gsoc project.. was there a specific reason why not to implement: _putwc, _scrwidth, wcstombs, strcoll, __iswlower, fnmatch, mbst_get_lc_and_fp, _set_orientation_wide.. ? I see on the emancipation page some of these symbols.. is it just that they weren't part of the closed bins back then or just not commonly used?
[21:57:22] <e^ipi> because they're private symbols
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[22:02:33] <TT2> if I have an zpool an 2*1tb and 1*0,5tb the used space will be 1tb right?
[22:03:18] <e^ipi> are you talking raidz ?
[22:03:33] <FloridaBSD> e^ipi: Thanks they work know, Know how in the heck do i convert my new Avenged Seven Fold track to mp3
[22:03:39] <TT2> yeah raidz1
[22:03:50] <e^ipi> anyways, it's a multiple of the smallest disk in the set
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[22:03:57] <TT2> oki
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[22:04:09] <e^ipi> so 2 1tb drives and 1 500gb drives is the same as 3 500gb drives
[22:04:48] <TT2> will be 2tb avaible if i change the 500gb disk to a 1tb?
[22:04:52] <e^ipi> yes
[22:05:04] <e^ipi> you can just zpool replace it and it'll notice the new size
[22:06:02] <TT2> cool i dont need to swap the data to a external disk rebuild the raid and copy back?
[22:06:18] <e^ipi> nope
[22:06:31] <e^ipi> zfs is rad like that
[22:06:53] <TT2> thats cool
[22:06:55] <TT2> =P)
[22:06:59] <TT2> thx
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[22:14:35] <TT2> ist posible to create an raidz1 / zpool with only 1 or 2 disk, and then grow up the pool up to 3 disks?
[22:14:41] <_mary_kate_> no
[22:14:49] <TT2> grml
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[22:15:27] <TT2> k
[22:17:02] <e^ipi> nonsense
[22:17:05] <e^ipi> i've done that
[22:18:13] <e^ipi> http://i18n-freedom.blogspot.com/2008/01/how-to-turn-mirror-in-to-raid.html
[22:18:16] <TT2> How its possible to create a zpool raidz1 with 1 unused 1tb disk and 1 1tb + 1 0,5tb full disks so that i dont need extra disk to swap out the data? Is there an solution?
[22:18:52] <e^ipi> extra disk to swap out the data?
[22:18:58] <e^ipi> not sure I understand what you're trying to do
[22:21:08] <TT2> I have 2 disks: 1tb + 0,5tb full with data also I have 1 empty 1tb disk I want to create a raidz1 zpool with all disks
[22:21:38] <e^ipi> striped, or mirrored
[22:21:46] <TT2> the full disks are not in the same zpool
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[22:22:01] <e^ipi> no real way to do that
[22:22:11] <TT2> hm
[22:22:27] <sommerfeld> TT2: it doesn't make sense to create a raidz1 set with fewer than 3 disks or a raidz2 set with fewer than 4
[22:22:49] <TT2> thats right
[22:23:03] <TT2> but i havent 3 empty disks
[22:23:06] <sommerfeld> you can create a raidz1 set of 3 disks of differing size but it won't store any more than a raidz1 set of 3 disks of the size of the smallest disk
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[22:23:26] <TT2> to create an raidz1 only 1free and 2 full
[22:23:39] <e^ipi> that doesn't make sense
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[22:23:45] <WormDrink> hi
[22:23:47] <e^ipi> a raidz is a stripe with parity
[22:23:55] <WormDrink> im looking for a way to generate statistics on network usage
[22:23:57] <e^ipi> they will all be full the same amount
[22:24:04] <WormDrink> but prefereably between two isp
[22:24:09] <WormDrink> ip's
[22:24:17] <TT2> yeah i know
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[22:24:47] <WormDrink> i have though of using snoop, and then just pakcet counting, but this wont help mutch, since snoop will have to be stopped and started every now and then
[22:24:51] <RavenSlay3r> Does OpenSolaris have any built-in version-control utility? I have a small folder of docs to version, and SVN would be overkill.
[22:24:59] <e^ipi> RavenSlay3r, hg
[22:25:06] <e^ipi> it's the one that most opensolaris projects use
[22:25:17] <e^ipi> ON is managed by hg
[22:25:31] <RavenSlay3r> cool
[22:25:52] <e^ipi> it doesn't require infrastructure like svn does
[22:25:56] <TT2> maybe i should read the link mirror to raidz1 maybe i get an solution
[22:26:05] <trygvis> WormDrink: perhaps you could do something with ipfilter, dunno
[22:26:13] <jbk> doesn't it also include sccs?
[22:26:29] <WormDrink> isnt ipfilter a firewall ?
[22:26:31] <RavenSlay3r> Thanks e^ipi!
[22:27:18] <RavenSlay3r> jbk is sccs verison-control also? I've heard of it but didn't know what it was
[22:28:11] <jbk> yeah, though old :)
[22:28:25] <RavenSlay3r> ahh ok
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[22:29:49] <gonzzor> Where do I configure /etc/resolv.conf? It doesn't seems to have any effect anymroe
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[22:30:23] <e^ipi> yeah, that's nwam for you
[22:30:48] <e^ipi> for the general case of one interface managed entirely by dhcp, it works ok
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[22:31:00] <e^ipi> throw in any special cases and you're better off disabling it
[22:32:34] <gonzzor> Thanks
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[22:34:28] <gonzzor> Hmm.. My svc:/network/dns/client:default is offline. Should it really be offline?
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[22:42:16] <proberts> anyone run OpenSolaris on Dells?
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[22:45:10] <e^ipi> proberts, dell collects a bunch of parts
[22:45:24] <e^ipi> running on a dell vs. running on anything else is exactly the same
[22:45:32] <proberts> yes but remote management is tricky
[22:45:42] <proberts> on Sun servers you have LOM standard
[22:46:52] <dustman> is it possible to 'suspend' instead of shutting down?
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[22:47:12] <e^ipi> dustman, on a subset of hardware
[22:47:38] <e^ipi> not all the drivers support it
[22:47:45] <dustman> hm, and how?
[22:48:05] <dustman> tzmon(7d) doesn't give much info
[22:48:40] <dustman> that I got for 'apropos acpi'
[22:48:42] <e^ipi> http://opensolaris.org/os/project/suspend-resume/
[22:48:56] <dustman> ty e^ipi
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[22:53:03] <abisen> is there a way to increase the verbosity of the log level in opensolaris ?
[22:53:35] <brianski> kinda off-topic question - what's a good place to buy opensolaris-compatible servers on the cheap?
[22:53:56] <abisen> brianski, the servers from SUN are not very expensive...
[22:53:59] <e^ipi> brianski, sun
[22:54:07] <e^ipi> x2200 and friends
[22:54:19] <brianski> abisen / e^ipi - i'm looking for 1/2U under 4k with room for 4 sata disks
[22:54:31] <abisen> brianski, but i am using opensolaris on a self built desktop ...
[22:54:37] <brianski> i found room for 2 sata disks, and room for ~10 sas disks, but we can't afford (nor do we want) sas
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[22:55:10] <brianski> x2100 and x2250 were the ones that looked almost right (just not enough disks)
[22:55:11] <abisen> brianski, and i have 6 SATA Disks / Core 2 Duo with 8GB RAM < 1500
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[22:55:14] <e^ipi> x4200
[22:56:06] <brianski> yeah that's more than we want to spend. we basically just want zfs in a smallish form factor (but 2 drives isn't enough)
[22:56:20] <brianski> that's almost 4 times the cost of the 1U solutions i was looking at :(
[22:58:53] <CIA-59> Ramaswamy Tummala <Ramaswamy.Tummala at Sun dot COM>: 6566278 Panic when ibd is configured after HCA is unconfigured and configured, 6727497 IB nexus should create one pathinfo node per HCA per IB nexus child, 6726179 ls -l /devices/ib shows zero devices nodes after doing rem_drv and add_drv of HCA driver, 6368026 IOC enumeration issues in multi HCA system, 6745259 Calling ddi_remove_minor_node in async thread causes deadlock, 6500304 RDS: Support HCA DR, 6739
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[23:03:16] <WormDrink> it is possible to use a named pipe as -o paramater for snoop right ?
[23:05:48] <RavenSlay3r> e^ipi: hg - is exactly what I needed! thanks
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[23:07:05] <e^ipi> brianski, if the system reliability isn't important to you just go with whatever
[23:07:16] <e^ipi> the sun kit is all opterons & ECC
[23:07:45] <_mary_kate_> yeah, all those Intel Opterons
[23:09:07] <RavenSlay3r> intel TURBO Opterons that is ;)
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[23:12:38] <Asako> dang this avs stuff is confusing
[23:13:03] <sickness> yeah.
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[23:13:20] <anathematic> hi I keep trying to login to my server after trying to restart it and I get the error "NO LOGINS: System going down in 30 seconds" any ideas what I can do?
[23:13:41] <sickness> RavenSlay3r: I'll never understand the therm "turbo" applied to something that isn't a thermic engine :P
[23:13:50] <tsoome> remove /etc/nologin
[23:14:02] <Asako> does every volume need a bitmap volume too?
[23:14:09] <anathematic> tsoome:  but I can't login to do it?
[23:14:22] <tsoome> even with root?
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[23:15:07] <anathematic> having a go at root now
[23:15:37] <anathematic> tells me permission denied
[23:15:44] <anathematic> "(gssapi-keyex,gssapi-with-mic,publickey,keyboard-interactive)." what that is~
[23:15:50] <tsoome> u need to be at console....
[23:16:08] <RavenSlay3r> sickness: agreed
[23:16:10] <anathematic> I am at the console
[23:16:21] <anathematic> I'm in terminal on my mac
[23:16:40] <tsoome> terminal at mac is no way at solaris console:D
[23:17:24] <e^ipi> console implies that you are reading and writing data directly to the system somehow
[23:17:32] <e^ipi> through a keyboard direct-connected, or through serial
[23:17:33] <Asako> can I just use another disk slice as my bitmap?
[23:17:35] <anathematic> tsoome:  but I can't connect to the solaris console to do it that's the point =)
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[23:17:46] <anathematic> I figured by console you were referring to  ssh
[23:17:49] <anathematic> sorry
[23:17:57] <anathematic> guess I need to hardware restart the computer?
[23:18:01] <tsoome> use remote management card to get console?:)
[23:18:09] <e^ipi> or a serial cable...
[23:18:23] <tsoome> what machine it is?
[23:18:27] <jbk> hmm.. i don't suppose if you have a copy of ON if you can use dbx to step through libc code in an app...
[23:18:39] <anathematic> I don't have acesss to the machine it's a web server
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[23:19:15] <tsoome> you are telling you have no access and ye t you tell u are going to hard reset it....
[23:19:15] <anathematic> guess I'll pop a support request through to the webhosts thanks =)
[23:19:24] <sickness> eheh :)
[23:19:36] <anathematic> haha yeah difficult / stupid situation huh?
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[23:22:42] <tsoome> woah, finished converting 4 node cluster to s10_u6 zfs root:D
[23:28:22] <Asako> I give up
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[23:31:31] <Asako> should I be installing with ufs to get my metadata slices set up?
[23:31:50] <_mary_kate_> why are you using svm and zfs?
[23:32:09] <Asako> I'm not
[23:32:32] <e^ipi> Asako, what you are doing is not something that's very common here. You may have better luck on the openhacluster mailing lists
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[23:32:36] <Asako> but AVS needs a bitmap volume for every storage pool
[23:33:03] <Stric> zvol?
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[23:33:18] <Asako> it says they must be on separate disks
[23:33:28] <Stric> do you have separate disks?
[23:33:35] <Asako> 3 right now
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[23:33:54] <Asako> one for the OS, I was going to mirror the other two and replicate them
[23:33:54] <Stric> 1 for os, 1 for bitmap, 1 for storage?
[23:34:40] <Stric> what exactly needs to be on separate disks?
[23:34:54] <TomJ> what is AVS?
[23:34:58] <Stric> bitmap and os, or bitmap and storage?
[23:35:12] <Asako> bitmap and storage
[23:35:23] <Stric> so create a zvol on the OS disk and put it there?
[23:35:25] <Asako> I guess I could create a zvol
[23:35:43] <Asako> just need to make sure it's big enough
[23:36:04] <Stric> just like if you're gonna do a separate slice
[23:36:25] <Asako> is the bitmap normally 1/10th the size of the pool?
[23:36:47] <Stric> what does the docs say about sizing?
[23:37:55] <Asako> found it
[23:38:11] <Asako> The bitmap size can be calculated using the following formula:
[23:38:11] <Asako>     * 1 Kbyte + 4 Kbyte per Gbyte of device storage space
[23:38:30] <Stric> so 1/10th was nowhere close
[23:38:56] <Asako> right, I was just wondering why the demo uses 256 gb and 256 mb
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[23:40:23] <Stric> you do know that 256gb / 256mb isn't 1/10, right?
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[23:40:44] <Asako> yeah
[23:41:13] <Stric> although, it's not the 1/256k either
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[23:41:53] <Asako> my math is off
[23:42:19] <Stric> divide one by the other.. pretty simple.. ;)
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[23:44:02] <codestr0m> I've found the SS12 docs online and the SSX references to the differences/release notes.. is there explicitly SSX docs and I'm just missing them?
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[23:44:35] <Asako> thanks
[23:44:44] <codestr0m> I'm trying to find how as/fbe may have changed between the two versions
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[23:45:41] <codestr0m> onnv-gate/usr/src/common/atomic/amd64/atomic.s", line 435 : Symbol "atomic_and_uchar_nv" already has a size
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[23:46:09] <codestr0m> I'm trying to pin down whether it's a regression before I do a bug report
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[23:51:26] <xstaticxgpx> Hi, I'm wondering if it's possible to share / through smb with zfs? I've tried, but even logging in as root doesn't work, I get a "folder contents cannot be displayed" error
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[23:53:17] <codestr0m> xstaticxgpx: is it just me or does that sound like a bad idea?
[23:53:41] <xstaticxgpx> it's just you.
[23:53:43] <codestr0m> you want to share the whole / (ROOT) through smb?
[23:53:48] <xstaticxgpx> yes
[23:54:16] <xstaticxgpx> i want access to my entire server fs through my desktop
[23:54:17] <codestr0m> maybe you're missing a role
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[23:55:44] <codestr0m> I could probably recommend something different, but if you're using windows as a desktop I'm sure any benefit I'd suggest would be moot
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[23:56:57] <xstaticxgpx> my desktop is archlinux - I've been using ssh just fine but I would prefer just to be able to mount my server's /
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[23:57:22] <Asako> there's an ext3 driver
[23:57:28] <codestr0m> k. check the roles. also don't use gnu ls as it could very well be screwing up things for you
[23:57:33] <ipfw> os2008.11 RC1 has xchat, and transmission, few more applications in the repos and it might be a functional desktop ;)
[23:58:02] <ipfw> openoffice 3 was a nice addition also
[23:58:04] <Asako> terminator is in b101 too
[23:58:05] <codestr0m> ipfw: transmission is an older version and not maintained anymore afaik.. (I would maintain it, but have other plans)
[23:58:10] <xstaticxgpx> I made sure that my cifs login has administrators access
[23:58:16] <Asako> think I like SXCE better
[23:58:16] <xstaticxgpx> but still doesn't work
[23:58:23] <codestr0m> ipfw: what more is missing?
[23:58:29] <ipfw> codestr0m, older version 1.33 vs 1.36 is better than none at all imho ;)
[23:58:41] <Auralis_> codestr0m: transmission in .11 is like 3 minor versions behind, not to bad
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[23:58:52] <codestr0m> (shrugs) I'll switch to deluge or something in the future
[23:59:04] <codestr0m> Auralis_: oh. you're the packager aren't you?
[23:59:11] <Auralis_> nope, i'm not
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[23:59:18] <Auralis_> its an SUNWpkg
[23:59:23] <codestr0m> your nick seemed familiar
[23:59:31] <codestr0m> transmission?
[23:59:37] <Auralis_> yeah
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[23:59:58] <Auralis_> basename   file      usr/bin/transmission      pkg:/SUNWtransmission at 0 dot 5.11-0.101





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