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[00:22:22] <tCzern> how stable or complete is the 2008.11 pre release version
[00:22:24] <tCzern> ?
[00:22:32] <lloy0076> Eep
[00:22:44] <tCzern> should I wait until it's official, I am not a developer
[00:22:44] <TomJ> given it's the pre-release version of a development preview, I'd hazard a guess at "not very"
[00:23:00] <lloy0076> Is there any way to convince the general performance/memory measurement tools that the ZFS cache is NOT program cache?
[00:23:04] <tCzern> ok, I'd better wait then
[00:23:07] <tCzern> thanks
[00:23:20] <lloy0076> For example, I just opened up a huge file in "vim" and 30% of my memory got reported as "program use".
[00:23:35] <lloy0076> I'm convinced that it wasn't program use but the file floating about in the ZFS caches.
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[00:23:56] <lloy0076> (well, technically I suppose vim was using it but still)
[00:23:58] <TomJ> mdb -k then ::memstat will tell you for sure
[00:24:03] <lloy0076> Ah, ok.
[00:25:47] <lloy0076> Yeah, the ZFS line as at about 220MB and then when I opened up the file it jumped to 520MB.
[00:25:50] <lloy0076> TomJ: Thanks :)
[00:26:25] <TomJ> and Anon was relatively unchanged?
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[00:27:50] <lloy0076> ZFS went from 6% to 13%, anon from 35% down to 30%.
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[00:55:59] <kimc> `/leave
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[01:13:42] <rb2k> hi there, just tried to install the current 2008.11 rc and found out that it doesn't install grub correctly
[01:13:57] <rb2k> anybody got an idea how to fix a botched installation?
[01:14:31] <rb2k> (there are different solutions in different threads... but they don't seem to work for me)
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[01:59:04] <CIA-59> Madhavan Venkataraman <Madhavan.Venkataraman at Sun dot COM>: 6565503 callout processing is single threaded, throttling applications that rely on scalable callouts, 6311743 callout table lock contention in timeout and untimeout
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[02:20:22] <auuuun> I am installing openoffice by Package Manager. It is easy but How can I install gftp? I can't found gftp package in Package Manager.
[02:21:05] <e^ipi> then it's not there
[02:21:31] <auuuun> Can I install gftp in opensolaris?
[02:21:53] <e^ipi> yes, but you need to compile it
[02:22:05] <auuuun> by myself? How?
[02:22:31] <e^ipi> same way you'd compile any other piece of open-source software
[02:22:41] <auuuun> Thank.
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[03:01:55] <_abisen_> hi i am trying to connect my Mac's to the iscsi target's exported by my opensolaris 2008.11 (using the same method i used in SXCE which btw worked). But this time with opensolaris i am unable to connect and i don't know where i should look for the iscsitgt log's
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[03:40:00] <tCzern> hello, does this work on opensolaris: http://jackaudio.org/
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[03:40:46] <RavenSlay31> Running Indiana b.98 as a virtualBox guest. Installed and worked great yesterday. shutdown fine this morning, went to reboot and got the error: "Error 16: Inconsistent Filesystem Structure"
[03:41:02] <auuuun> How can I set thai keyboard on opensolaris?
[03:41:19] <RavenSlay31> i'm booting the VM into the live-cd console-mode now ... any ideas on what i need to do?
[03:41:32] <auuuun> I can't find xorg.conf .
[03:41:46] <RavenSlay31> can one mount the VDI from the liveCD and run fsck on a ZFS filesystem?
[03:43:30] <comay> RavenSlay31 did you do anything before you shutdown in the morning?  did you install any packages, or run "pkg image-update
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[03:46:31] <RavenSlay31> comay: only thing I did was, close the lid on the laptop for the night, with the VM running, and the host-OS (winXP) actually refused to hibernate like it always does... when I opened it this morning the VM was working fine, but the host (windows) had lost track of the wireless adapter, so I shutdown the VM then rebooted windows. After that the VM wouldn't start again (wireless fixed it'self as expected).
[03:48:36] <RavenSlay31> never ran image-update, didn't install any apps or anything
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[03:50:53] <comay> not sure what might have happened
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[03:52:17] <jerrl> hello .what package do I intall to use the pkg command ?
[03:53:23] <swankier> SUNWipkg I think
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[03:53:43] <mshadle> can i move backwards from snv_101 -> snv_98 using LU?
[03:53:51] <RavenSlay31> comay: from the liveCD console how does one access the HDD?
[03:54:01] <swankier> RavenSlay31: mount it?
[03:54:16] <comay> You can access if by typing "pfexec zpool import -f rpool"
[03:54:24] <bits45> the man page for pkg indicated it is SUNWipkg.
[03:54:56] <comay> next, I would see if you can "pfexec mount -F zfs rpool/ROOT/opensolaris /a"
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[03:56:00] <comay> if you can, typing "/a/sbin/installgrub /a/boot/grub/stage1 /a/boot/grub/stage2 /dev/rdsk/<disk name>" where <disk name> is what "zpool status" reports
[03:58:54] <CIA-59> yu, larry liu - Sun Microsystems - Beijing China <Larry.Liu at Sun dot COM>: 6717644 iscsiadm modify discovery X disable should offline all LUNs, Contributed by Nils Goroll <nils.goroll at hamburg dot de>
[03:59:50] <jerrl> SUNWipkg , How and where can  I download?
[04:01:15] <bits45> jerrl: if you do a "pkginfo |grep ipkg" what do you see?
[04:02:18] <mshadle> ever since upgrading to b101, my network connectivity has been like 16k/sec on my LAN. totally fubar. i want to go back to b98
[04:04:25] <jerrl> bits45:  CSWpkgget /SFpkgbuild  /SUNWpkgcmdsr /  SUNWpkgcmdsu    /SUNWplowr   5 package
[04:06:13] <bits45> jerrl: I just jumped onto IRC tonight.  I may have missed earlier messages of yours.  What verion of OpenSolaris are you currently using?  Was it a complete installation or some custom install?
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[04:08:06] <bits45> I'm using OpenSolaris 2008.11 snv_101a and I have packages of SUNWipkg-brand, SUNWipkg-gui (x3), and SUNWipkg-um
[04:08:54] <jerrl> bit45: I want to install pkg package in solairs 10 system; not opensolaris 2008.05/11
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[04:12:37] <bits45> jerrl: I may be wrong, but I don't know that it's in Solaris 10.  The built-in package "manager" is pkgadd, pkgrm, pkginfo.  I see you have some Blastwave packages installed as well with the CSWpkgget.  The blastwave package manager, as you probably know, is pkg-get and it lives in /opt/csw/bin by default.  I think pkg is new for OpenSolaris, though maybe it's in Solaris 10 11/08.  I don't remember seeing that in the release notes, uncertain.
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[04:13:13] <bits45> sorry, 10/08
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[04:17:55] <jerrl> bit45: thank you
[04:18:12] <bits45> sorry I couldn't be more help
[04:18:26] <bits45> I'm learning what's new too
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[04:24:01] <mshadle> http://mikehost.com/~mike/tmp/lu.txt
[04:25:41] <bits45> jerrl:  It does indeed look like it's currently only for opensolaris.  it's bleeding edge.  http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/pkg/
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[04:28:44] <bits45> Does anyone know how to exit from the OpenSolaris boot "splash screen", in linux you'd typically hit ESC key to see what's going on in the background.  The pretty gui stuff is hiding too much.
[04:28:58] <bits45> during bootup
[04:29:32] <jerrl> bits45: Thank you . I try to install it in the solaris 10 system.
[04:29:40] <jerrl> I find the web site..
[04:30:00] <bits45> for solaris 10?  what's the web site?
[04:31:59] <e^ipi> bits45: it's actually not hiding much
[04:32:14] <e^ipi> bits45: it's hiding the copyright header
[04:32:18] <e^ipi> and a whole lot of blank
[04:33:23] <bits45> really?  I find that even sol 10 "hides" more of what's going on at boot time then say sol 8 or 9.  Though I know there is better logging now for boot messages.  I'm just an old dog learning new tricks.
[04:33:41] <e^ipi> you can boot with -v if you really care
[04:33:45] <bits45> thanks though
[04:33:49] <e^ipi> but a whole lot of spew is useless while everything's working
[04:34:12] <e^ipi> when things aren't working though, the system logs have stuff in 'em
[04:35:10] <bits45> yes, but if you can distinquish new/bad spew from old/typical spew, it may lead too better trouble shooting.  Though I think the SMF has done a good job leading us to the correct logs with detailed information to properly troubleshoot, that's true.
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[04:35:26] <bits45> they've done well there for sure.
[04:37:08] <e^ipi> if it shows up, it's bad spew
[04:37:14] <gdamore> coffman: if you're still around, yes, I can probably get you a copy of the earlier audiohd.  why do you need an older version?
[04:37:17] <e^ipi> if it doesn't show up, it's normal
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[04:39:53] <e^ipi> really, linux and the BSD's barf up a lot of useless crap that could be filtered out as 'normal' automatically
[04:39:57] <bits45> indeed it is e^ipi.
[04:40:21] <e^ipi> if it diverges from the set o 'normal' messages, print it
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[04:59:01] <comay> bits45, you need to type "e" at the grub screen and delete the foreground, background and backspace over the ",console=graphics"
[05:01:52] <myrddian> does the latest version of opensolaris (release candidate) have virtualisation support?
[05:01:53] <Plazma> bah, silly wificonfig
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[05:05:49] <RavenSlay31> comay: sorry got pulled away from my desk for a min... :(
[05:06:03] <RavenSlay31> comay: those instructions appear to have worked, waiting for it to reboot now and find out
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[05:06:13] <RavenSlay31> thankyou :)
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[05:07:15] <RavenSlay31> grrr .. didn't work, i'll try it again, maybe i missed somthing
[05:09:09] <RavenSlay31> myrddian: dunno about the latest but SXCE has had XVM builtin all along, and OpenSolaris has been happy to run VirtualBox all summer ... so i would assume yes
[05:11:01] <Plazma> why does wificonfig show certain setparams are supported, but when i try to use them it says "Operation not supported" .. (the card is visible and recognized.. driver is attached)
[05:11:51] <jbk> isn't wificonfig a bit outdated?
[05:11:57] <myrddian> ah ok
[05:12:02] <jbk> shouldn't dladm be used instead?
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[05:12:18] <myrddian> I've been considering moving a current windows server to a solaris zfs block for a while
[05:12:24] <Plazma> jbk,  is it? i was looking for guides on wireless + WPA.. and wificonfig seemed to be the answer.. but if dldadm works..
[05:12:29] <myrddian> and I want to keep it working virtualised .....
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[05:12:49] <myrddian> but I am not too sure what technologies are available in OpenSolaris
[05:12:55] <jbk> with anything in the past year, i think so
[05:13:00] <Plazma> hmm
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[05:15:52] <RavenSlay31> myrddian: i would strongly reccomend building a test-box first and doing a dry-run to minimize your downtime, if at all possible
[05:16:38] <myrddian> yeah good point..
[05:16:55] <RavenSlay31> that said, if you can get it to work - your gonna love solaris, it just takes some getting used to :-)
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[05:21:18] <pizdec> anyone tried adove reader for solaris x86?
[05:21:25] <pizdec> adobe
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[05:21:55] <pizdec> https://train.transitive.com/reader
[05:23:10] <myrddian> well atm I am testing it in a Virtualbox env at work :)
[05:23:41] <myrddian> so far I like the new release candidate,
[05:23:59] <myrddian> a lot more packages seem to have been placed
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[05:30:22] <Plazma> jbx that fixed the issue.. thanks :)
[05:30:30] <Plazma> though dladm doesn't seem to like hidden essid's
[05:30:44] <jbk> just give the name
[05:30:54] <Plazma> it didn't work when the essid ws ahidden
[05:30:59] <Plazma> but i unhid it and it worked
[05:31:00] <Plazma> not sure why
[05:31:21] <RavenSlay31> comay: nope still won't boot -same error message .. no idea why.
[05:31:43] <Plazma> though now it appears to be hanging up on when i try to get an IP via DHCP
[05:31:44] <RavenSlay31> guess i'll just reinstall the VM .. good thing it's not a realy machine :/
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[05:48:09] <myrddian> does open solaris come with the Sun compiler?
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[05:49:09] <RavenSlay31> I believe you have to download and install sunstudio for free
[05:49:31] <myrddian> I thought I did but cc points to gcc
[05:49:46] <RavenSlay31> maybe 'CC' ?
[05:50:08] <myrddian> ah thnx
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[06:50:26] <Ouro> anyone know if this is a client or server side problem: cvs [checkout aborted]: memory exhausted
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[06:51:57] <RavenSlay31> Ouro: I dunno but I would start with the client first - unless of course your server's chronically short on memory.
[06:52:28] <Ouro> well, i alreayd adjusted the client, so i think its server
[06:52:54] <Ouro> what controls the memory limits for cvs running in ssh login?
[06:52:59] <RavenSlay31> do you have a second client you can try on? that would be a quick way to find out
[06:54:24] <Ouro> not too conveniently
[06:55:07] <Ouro> screw it, i will mess with it tomorrow
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[06:55:32] <RavenSlay31> beats me - if no-one else here know then try #cvs.
[06:55:45] <RavenSlay31> and he's gone
[06:58:11] <jerrl> hello , when I install a package  its error show : "Not trusting file /export/home/jklyekai1/gate/.hg/hgrc from untrusted user"  why
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[07:13:47] <michael-03> It's a bad idea to run both samba and cifs right?
[07:14:46] <RavenSlay31> i believe CIFS superceded Samba, so that would be redundant and you don't need samba
[07:15:03] <RavenSlay31> but i could be wrong .. i always get confused in that area
[07:15:55] <michael-03> The problem is I rather not run two servers and samba seems to be able to run as a domain controller
[07:16:37] <michael-03> But I already have cifs set up and working.
[07:17:20] * RavenSlay31 not sure
[07:18:36] <michael-03> Me neither that's why I wanted to run it by you guys. ;)
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[07:19:29] <RavenSlay31> i shouldn't be allowed to answer questions in here by sometimes i try when i'm watching progress bars... ;)
[07:20:33] <michael-03> heh, that feeling creeps up on me too.
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[07:22:51] <mshadle> http://mikehost.com/~mike/tmp/lu.txt <- i get this when trying to go from b101 -> b98. anyone know the issue?
[07:24:54] <tsoome> afaik downgrade is not supported:)
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[07:26:37] <mshadle> my friend has done it easily just using luactivate $foo
[07:32:27] <e^ipi> yes, you can undo a liveupgrade
[07:32:33] <e^ipi> you can't liveupgrade to a lower version
[07:33:45] <mshadle> hrm. he says he just luactivate to any version he wants
[07:33:48] <mshadle> so how do i undo this?
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[07:34:27] <e^ipi> you can luactivate an older boot environment
[07:34:52] <e^ipi> same as the upgrade step, but you specify the old be
[07:35:32] <mshadle> not just luactivate, but lucreate, luupgrade, luactivate again?
[07:35:46] <e^ipi> no
[07:35:48] <e^ipi> just luactivate
[07:36:06] <e^ipi> when you upgrade from say, b98 to b101, you can go back to b98
[07:36:18] <e^ipi> only works if you used live upgrade
[07:37:09] <mshadle> i did.
[07:37:14] <mshadle> and when i run luactivate snv_98
[07:37:19] <mshadle> i get that error
[07:37:52] <e^ipi> you could also just choose the b98 grub option
[07:38:04] <e^ipi> lu leaves a bunch of upgrade turds around
[07:38:08] <mshadle> hmmm
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[07:38:59] <mshadle> ill try booting and choosing the snv 98
[07:39:05] <mshadle> that would be neat.
[07:39:25] <e^ipi> it didn't occur to you to try that earlier?
[07:39:41] <mshadle> no, typically OSes dont run side by side so easily :p
[07:40:25] <mshadle> i figured liveupgrade did some stuff to change how partitions work or get chosen
[07:40:33] <mshadle> i guess due to zfs, its a piece of cake
[07:40:48] <mshadle> since 'partitions' are a thing of the past
[07:42:00] <mshadle> doh. i did default 1 instead of 0
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[07:47:48] <high-rez> So I'm trying to install opensolaris.  It asks me about keyboard/language - goes ot the console screen and then locks up
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[07:57:54] <codestr0m> high-rez: unfortunately, I'm unaware of a cli based installer for os2008*.. (I'm guessing you may have nvidia graphics card and it's a driver issue.. I could be totally wrong) SXCE I'm pretty sure does have a console based installer that may help work around this issue.  Alternatively, you can try pulling a more recent iso from www.genunix.org unless you've already got the most recent (in which case that won't help)
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[07:58:33] <high-rez> I do have the most recent (100a?)
[07:58:42] <high-rez> and i also have an nvidia device :(
[07:58:50] <CIA-59> Krishna Elango <Krishna.Elango at Sun dot COM>: 6767048 MSIs don't work on Intel 5400 chipset, 6768044 pcix_ereport_setup has a memleak
[07:58:51] <high-rez> (9800GT)
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[07:59:06] <high-rez> The console output is frankly lacking.
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[08:05:17] <high-rez> It's so strange, the behavior is almost random.  I wish there was some reasonable debugging.
[08:06:26] <codestr0m> high-rez: yeah.. livecd wasn't really made to provide feedback if you have driver problems this early
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[08:08:24] <high-rez> I'm jusdt disappointed :(
[08:08:27] <codestr0m> wish I could offer something more helpful, but it's basically 1) wait 2) use another opensolaris like OS (belenix, SXCE.. etc) that has a cli based installer
[08:08:55] <high-rez> I think you're onto something with the video card.  I see my screen flicker, and then the console goes to crap.
[08:09:01] <codestr0m> high-rez: why be disappointed? this can be worked around, but you'll probably have to have a usb boot device or burn another cd
[08:09:19] <codestr0m> swap out video cards until after the install
[08:09:23] <mshadle> that didnt work so well
[08:09:44] <mshadle> i boot into snv_98, but it fails on fs-local using "zfs mount -a"
[08:09:54] <mshadle> and i cant seem to get the machine to fix itself
[08:10:09] <high-rez> I'll just wait and try it on my sun 4500's and 4600's when they get racked and cabled.
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[08:17:58] <codestr0m> well. those are pretty likely to have hw on the on the HCL :P
[08:18:29] <codestr0m> high-rez: keep in mind that os2008* probably is not ready for production
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[08:35:29] <trochej> Coffee?
[08:35:46] <fraggeln> coke please :D
[08:35:47] <michael-03> high-rez> I do have the most recent (100a?) -> Release Candidate 1B for OpenSolaris 2008.11 seems to be avail http://genunix.org/ not sure if that is newer or predates 100a.
[08:37:18] <xRaich[o]2x> trochej: yes please
[08:37:31] <michael-03> http://genunix.org/distributions/indiana/osol-0811-101a-rc1b.iso -> seems to indicated 101a availability but there seems to be no associated announcement
[08:37:50] <high-rez> looks newer
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[08:40:50] <michael-03> ah, see http://blogs.sun.com/dminer/entry/opensolaris_2008_11_release_candidate
[08:42:48] <michael-03> 101a is branded a RC.
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[08:44:55] <gerard13> hello all, i have a question about http://opensolaris.org/os/project/indiana/resources/relnotes/200805/x86/#Update_Inst
[08:45:10] <gerard13> the update process is defferent from http://opensolaris.org/os/project/indiana/resources/relnotes/200805/image-update/
[08:45:37] <gerard13> becausein the first ref, they want to install 86 packages...?
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[08:58:37] <Stric> gerard13: no, the instructions are the same.
[08:58:52] <CIA-59> Raghuram Prahlada <Raghuram.Prahlada at Sun dot COM>: 6739576 PLOGI is not retried when busy response is returned
[08:59:10] <Stric> gerard13: if you are at snv86, they're identical.. and the first describes from 86.. the second from any..
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[09:01:42] <gerard13> Stric: i am on snv_100
[09:02:45] <gerard13> i think the second is ambiguous,what's happen if i apply http://opensolaris.org/os/project/indiana/resources/relnotes/200805/x86/#Update_Inst? is there a downgrade to 86?
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[09:08:24] <Stric> gerard13: since the first applies to running 2008.05, which you are not, then something will happen.. it might complain..
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[09:09:53] <Stric> gerard13: although, the information could be more clear.. but the first page is older I think.. from when all there was 86 and something to update to
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[09:13:08] <osladil> gm
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[09:29:49] <DTEIT> morning
[09:30:01] <xRaich[o]2x> morning DTEIT
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[09:56:56] <Phoicos> :) slashdot is talking OpenSolaris today
[09:57:10] <Phoicos> very cool
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[09:58:55] <e^ipi> from slashdot, i dunno that it'd be cool so much as "ugh, here come the retards"
[10:00:25] <e^ipi> or alternately, "here comes the GPL flamewar... again... "
[10:00:25] <xRaich[o]2x> "if you blog it.... they will come"
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[10:03:36] <Phoicos> lol
[10:03:54] <xRaich[o]2x> as long as there are different choices there will always be flamewars, people are good at turning trivial things into a religion
[10:04:04] <Phoicos> true
[10:04:08] <e^ipi> there was a time when slashdot didn't suck
[10:04:22] <Phoicos> oh man - its the holy grail to me
[10:05:09] <e^ipi> that was about the time it was called 'chips & dip'
[10:05:18] <xRaich[o]2x> e^ipi: i guess that was before the internet became a _real_ mass media
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[10:05:47] <e^ipi> andover pretty much turned slashdot in to a cesspool of retards
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[10:06:21] <xRaich[o]2x> show me an IT page on that net that isn't
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[10:07:04] <Phoicos> Wait - you mean ZDNet isn't all the cheezewhiz?
[10:07:17] <Phoicos> I get my dip from ZDNet
[10:08:03] <Phoicos> Whenever I need a Windows 7 blurb all I do is check my ZDMail
[10:10:21] <xRaich[o]2x> the german IT press posts about every friggin line of linux code that has been changed, just to raise the troll post count.
[10:11:23] <CosmicDJ> "LogZilla" lol -> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/10/suns_amber_road_storage/
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[10:14:42] <e^ipi> it's funny learning stuff from tech press from the place you work at
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[10:36:34] <Phoicos> I love open office
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[10:38:08] <e^ipi> i love pie
[10:38:13] <e^ipi> and ice cream
[10:39:00] <Phoicos> applez?
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[10:47:05] <michael-03> wonderfull I've saved 10% electricity power by swapping gpu's now it's just really loud... :| pff
[10:47:44] <gothos> fail :-P
[10:48:50] <e^ipi> down-clock your machine
[10:49:03] <e^ipi> you can save a bunch in electricity that way
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[10:49:15] <e^ipi> i have a couple 3ghz cpu's running at 2.5ghz
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[10:50:07] <quasi> or get a fanless S3 Trio64 - that'll be fairly quiet ;)
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[10:51:00] <michael-03> I had a fanless one in there but it was old and doubled as a space heater
[10:51:50] <michael-03> e^ipi: don't you need to lower the voltage too then, I tried loweringthe fsb but all I got was slower speeds and the power usage stayed the same.
[10:52:13] <e^ipi> you can, yeah
[10:52:24] <e^ipi> slower speed needs less voltage for switching
[10:52:29] <e^ipi> works pretty well
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[10:53:57] <michael-03> As far as horse power goes it has lots to spare, I gues I'm going to give it another go.
[10:55:42] <dustman> underclocked athlons are good for power saving
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[11:02:28] <xRaich[o]2x> i was wondering how zfs hybridpools are build... does this work automagically or do you have to specify someting?
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[11:03:52] <e^ipi> you give it a ZIL or L2ARC device
[11:03:56] <e^ipi> or both
[11:05:21] <e^ipi> same as you'd attach a hot spare, except you specify 'log' or 'cache'
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[11:06:17] <_mary_kate_> when did l2arc get integrated?
[11:06:25] <xRaich[o]2x> buil 96 afaik
[11:06:29] <xRaich[o]2x> +d
[11:06:48] <xRaich[o]2x> e^ipi: makes sense, thanks :)
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[11:09:18] <xRaich[o]2x> didn't know that you could specify cache devices, that's pretty cool.
[11:09:39] <michael-03> but it makes sense ey? :)
[11:09:53] <xRaich[o]2x> sure, just read it up in the admin guide
[11:10:06] <xRaich[o]2x> i think i really need to print that one ^^
[11:10:32] <e^ipi> cache doesn't make a whole lot of sense on spinning platters, you're not going to gain much
[11:10:43] <e^ipi> but put it on a zippy SSD and you're good
[11:11:04] <xRaich[o]2x> i know that's why i asked about hybrid pools ^^
[11:11:05] <_mary_kate_> how close are SSDs in performance to nvram?
[11:11:08] <michael-03> I love how zfs works how you'd want it to work but never expect it to, but does.
[11:11:08] <_mary_kate_> (battery backed dram)
[11:11:32] <xRaich[o]2x> i saw a presentation somewhere in the sun blogs and i thought it was pretty cool
[11:11:37] <Stric> _mary_kate_: read is usually pretty good (still worse than dram), but writes can be slow
[11:11:49] <xRaich[o]2x> just wanted to know how you build that stuff
[11:11:51] <Stric> due to block rewriting etc
[11:13:07] <e^ipi> xRaich[o]2x: it's pretty easy
[11:13:20] <michael-03> using a cache prevents the drives from spinning up often, right? but how does that work on cache drive crash/power cycle?
[11:13:43] <_mary_kate_> michael-03: i doubt it prevents that... usually a cache would be used so a small number of fast disks can improve speed of a pool backed by slow SATA disks
[11:13:52] <e^ipi> michael-03: using cache lowers drive latency
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[11:14:09] <xRaich[o]2x> e^ipi: yep, just read it up in the admin guide. zfs never ceases to amaze me
[11:14:10] <e^ipi> or pool latency, more accurately
[11:14:36] <xRaich[o]2x> i switched my home backup system to zfs yesterday... that was a breeze
[11:14:44] <xRaich[o]2x> even a chimp could handle that
[11:15:28] <michael-03> ye expected it to do that, but I also though I read in some blog that they where toying with some power saving stuff.
[11:15:38] <_mary_kate_> Stric: i wonder if someone will build a battery backed DRAM with a sata interface.. that would be interesting
[11:15:59] <e^ipi> michael-03: yeah, intel among others are interested in lowering power usage in general
[11:16:13] <CosmicDJ> michael-03: http://mags.acm.org/communications/200807/?searchterm=adam+leventhal&pg=49
[11:16:23] <e^ipi> presumably it'll come with some storage changes somewhere along the line
[11:17:35] <CosmicDJ> http://blogs.sun.com/brendan/entry/test
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[11:18:58] * michael-03 is reading
[11:20:31] <codestr0m> mbp1: ++
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[11:22:05] <CosmicDJ> http://blogs.sun.com/perrin/entry/slog_blog_or_blogging_on
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[11:25:45] <CosmicDJ> seems like they use 1/2+-TB SSDs to cache multi-terabytes of HD data...
[11:26:23] <CosmicDJ> so I don't think you need that at home, yet ;)
[11:26:47] <e^ipi> no, but you could drop a fast 32GB SSD in to your little 1TB pool
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[11:27:13] <CosmicDJ> cache or log?
[11:27:32] <e^ipi> cache
[11:28:04] <e^ipi> mostly just because I don't think they make smaller than 32GB
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[11:31:22] <CosmicDJ> hm a 32GB SSD is 130EUR, 1GB Ram is 13 EUR; I think I'd put more ram into my machine ;)
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[11:33:24] <michael-03> heh but you can only stick so much ram in there, as a middle way you could probably use sticks at home too.
[11:34:40] <e^ipi> a tiny 1 or 2 GB SSD for cheap would be ideal to dump the ZIL on
[11:35:28] <CosmicDJ> (add another and mirror your ZIL, as we don't trust SSDs) :)
[11:36:33] <timsf> Worth watching Bill Moore's presentation this year at SNIA about SSD trustworthiness...
[11:36:49] * timsf looking for a link now..
[11:37:19] <michael-03> I thought the idea was that with zfs you don't need to worry about the trustworthiness to begin with ;)
[11:37:22] <timsf> http://blogs.sun.com/storage/en_US/entry/flash_performance_in_storage_systems
[11:37:55] <timsf> I'd be nervous putting all my files on a zpool created on a ramdisk.
[11:38:40] <timsf> anyway - summary: not all SSDs are created equal, and there's lots of tricks to get more reliability from them
[11:41:03] <CosmicDJ> ramdisk? all files? the current plans are using SSDs as a "second" cache between RAM and HDs
[11:41:19] <e^ipi> mirror them, and then pretend the problem doesn't exist
[11:41:58] <timsf> Yes, I know CosmicDJ - I was just stating that zfs on top of a completely unreliable media is madness...
[11:42:15] <timsf> [ like putting everything on a zpool based on top of a ramdisk ]
[11:42:18] <CosmicDJ> timsf: not if you add redundancy...
[11:42:39] * timsf gives up
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[11:43:26] <CosmicDJ> timsf: btw, Harddisks also count as unreliable media IMHO
[11:43:37] <timsf> I agree
[11:44:11] * michael-03 scares timsf with http://blogs.sun.com/constantin/entry/opensolaris_home_server_zfs_and
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[11:44:54] * timsf fights back with http://blogs.sun.com/timf/entry/zfs_in_perfect_harmony
[11:45:09] <CosmicDJ> timsf: so then what's the diff. between putting a ZFS on a ramdisk/ssd or zfs on a harddisk?
[11:45:23] <timsf> A ramdisk is volatile
[11:45:37] <timsf> an ssd or hard disk, less so..
[11:45:52] <_mary_kate_> mtbf of an ssd under HD-like load is much higher, isn't it?
[11:46:12] <timsf> Depends - Bill was suggesting a lifetime of 5 years with the right ramdisk.
[11:46:28] <timsf> (with the right workload, either zil or l2arc)
[11:46:34] <CosmicDJ> timsf: http://opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=292045&tstart=0
[11:46:36] <_mary_kate_> i meant using it as a pool device
[11:46:41] <_mary_kate_> since we're comparing ssd to hd..
[11:46:44] <Gekz> wtf is a ramdisk
[11:46:44] <CosmicDJ> ramdisk mirrored
[11:47:07] <timsf> ahh yes.
[11:48:10] <timsf> Time will tell - I'm running zfs root on my 4gb eepc, which is bound to have the crappiest, cheapest ssd Asus could get their hands on - all good so far, after about 9 months usage.
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[11:51:51] <michael-03> talking about scary setup's, you can't have your rpool striped; now I understand why that grenade pin is bolted shut but isn't a 1+0 still a lot more reliable then a single disk?
[11:52:34] <_mary_kate_> the reason isn't that they don't want you to do it, it's that grub doesn't understand striped pools
[11:52:59] <michael-03> oh yeah, forgot about that.
[11:52:59] <timsf> and it's only more reliable if you don't care about losing half your data
[11:53:15] <_mary_kate_> timsf: there's no reason raidz or mirror-stripe should be less reliable
[11:53:34] <timsf> sorry, was thinking 1 + 0 was concatenation
[11:53:42] * timsf hates raid terminology
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[11:54:20] <michael-03> I'll say mirrored stripe next time.
[11:54:27] <timsf> :-)
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[11:55:06] <michael-03> actually thats wrong,
[11:55:16] <michael-03> zfs stripes a mirror
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[12:07:12] <kenokabe> ALL: say I have 8G-mem and 32G ssd, and make 4G-ramdrive. Is it possible to create zpool 4G-ramdrive+4G-sdd mirrored, and install the whole bootable OS in it?
[12:07:51] <_mary_kate_> why would you do that?
[12:07:53] <kenokabe> ram-drive + ssd mirror zpool speed is as fast as ram-drive?
[12:08:08] <kenokabe> because ram-drive is the fastest
[12:08:15] <CosmicDJ> kenokabe: huh, please forget all that ramdrive-stuff :)
[12:08:23] <_mary_kate_> you think a ram drive will be faster than the ram cache?
[12:08:26] <kenokabe> but the problem is it does not retain data
[12:08:26] <CosmicDJ> kenokabe: zfs is smart enough to use your ram w/o any ramdrive-need
[12:08:57] <kenokabe> mirroring with SSD, I guess it can re-establish data after reboot
[12:09:14] <_mary_kate_> kenokabe: zfs already uses your ram for cache.  what does a ram disk add?
[12:09:51] <CosmicDJ> _mary_kate_: I think he want's to put a zil on there...
[12:10:12] <kenokabe> well, I donno how zfs exatctly works, but if it's windows, the system runs fastest on ramdisk
[12:10:22] <_mary_kate_> well, that's not going to add anything... the zil isn't on stable storage until it's written to the ssd
[12:11:38] <CosmicDJ> kenokabe: hint: don't turn your system off; your cache will alway be warm and full ;)
[12:11:39] <kenokabe> ok thanks folks, ZFS uses ram fully as default right
[12:13:20] <CosmicDJ> kenokabe: yep, and zfs can't have enough of it (ram)
[12:14:26] <kenokabe> is that the reason the memory is used a lot even in a short time  after the OS boot?
[12:14:37] <kenokabe> it's very unlike linux or windows
[12:15:17] <_mary_kate_> that's probably one of them.  but solaris like memory in general
[12:15:24] <kenokabe> I have 3G now, but when I run vbox especially, memory usage is like 2.9G
[12:15:30] <CosmicDJ> kenokabe: to be honest; I have a small openbsd fileserver with 2GB ram and it's only using 300M, so 1.7GB wasted in my eyes; I'd rather have all 2GBs full of zfs cache...
[12:16:12] <kenokabe> well I agree
[12:16:57] <xRaich[o]2x> the notebook i just ordered will be equipped with 4GB of RAM. It's pretty cheap to max out the memory
[12:17:43] <kenokabe> do you think loading 8G is faster than 3 or 4G on opensolaris?
[12:18:12] <_mary_kate_> what do you mean by 'loading 8G'?
[12:18:20] <kenokabe> 8G memory
[12:18:29] <_mary_kate_> you mean a system with 8G of RAM installed?
[12:18:30] <kenokabe> I have 3G now
[12:18:32] <CosmicDJ> depends on what this machine is doing ;)
[12:18:33] <kenokabe> yeah
[12:19:13] <_mary_kate_> if you're using 2.9GB now, then yes
[12:19:13] <kenokabe> ok
[12:19:19] <kenokabe> oh
[12:19:41] <kenokabe> yes and it's 97.5%
[12:20:23] <kenokabe> I simply thought it is in the same way even with 8G memory
[12:21:20] <CosmicDJ> kenokabe: before asking if it'll faster you should ask yourself; do I have any performance problems...
[12:21:50] <kenokabe> well, that's really hard to confirm though
[12:22:30] <kenokabe> so far, my opensolaris works flawlessly especially with 101
[12:23:10] <CosmicDJ> then you'll hardly notice anything with 8GB IMHO
[12:23:49] <tsoome> nah, just act now and start thinking sometimes later (if at all)
[12:23:50] <kenokabe> well, I should restate; without vbox windows (1.2G mem client), the host mem usage is 1.7G
[12:24:28] <kenokabe> so the math makes sense.
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[12:24:45] <CosmicDJ> ah well if you run memory hogs like VBox, more RAM helps of course...
[12:25:10] * CosmicDJ plays http://www.rcac.purdue.edu/rackanode/ ; can't get past lvl9 though :(
[12:26:20] <kenokabe> well thx for advice anyway, I feel I should to upgrade 3Gmem to 4G
[12:26:58] <kenokabe> if it's cheap enough, 8G is preferable though
[12:27:21] <CosmicDJ> kenokabe: 64bit cpu?
[12:27:34] <kenokabe> yeah, that's no problem
[12:28:03] <kenokabe> using thinkpad x61 tablet, core2duo
[12:29:00] <kenokabe> 2slots memory, I guess 4G+4G mem works ok
[12:29:06] <kenokabe> currently 1+2G
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[12:41:11] <torroll> oh this is different than selaris
[12:41:17] <torroll> where can I ask Sun to make T2 affordable like in the $100 range?
[12:42:33] <hrist> sales at sun dot com? :p
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[12:44:31] <CosmicDJ> 100$? an old sparcstation costs more today...
[12:44:40] <CosmicDJ> (say 110$ ;))
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[12:46:58] <quasi> torroll: cat "make T2 affordable like in the $100 range" >> /dev/null
[12:47:03] <torroll> why is open source but yet is not open affordable
[12:47:28] <quasi> s/cat/echo/
[12:47:45] <quasi> why is it expensive to make processors?
[12:48:04] <torroll> I just think it would be a nice thing, they look cool cpus
[12:48:05] <tsoome> maybe you should make it   in the $100 range yourself?;)
[12:48:47] <torroll> i didn't mean their ENTIRE line just a few like amd and intel do
[12:49:10] <tsoome> go ahead, the cpu spec is opensource;)
[12:49:25] <quasi> it'll probably happen right after sun starts selling as many cpus as intel does
[12:49:37] <torroll> intel has the extreme line above $1000 yet also offer quad for less than $200
[12:50:01] <quasi> Sparc VII isn't cheap
[12:50:12] <hrist> I'd love to get my hands on one of those new intel SSDs
[12:50:24] <torroll> I think it'd do them well since the company seems to be floundering
[12:51:29] <torroll> I found some old stuff but I can't get to work because the bizarre video cable
[12:53:53] <CosmicDJ> hm t2 has 64 cores? that's 16 quadcores (= 3200 $)
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[12:54:47] <Stric> CosmicDJ: no, 4-8 cores.. with 8 "threads" each
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[12:59:35] <CosmicDJ> anyway, we are comparing apples with oranges here
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[13:01:03] <CosmicDJ> torroll: btw, you can build your own if you want -> http://www.opensparc.net/
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[13:02:03] <torroll> lol that's what I am being told at #solaris ATM, they are shocked that I suggest a $100 range T2
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[13:03:48] <CosmicDJ> so are we; you wan't a Porsche for a price of a <add cheap car manufacturer here>
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[13:04:36] <torroll> CosmicDJ: I will download the pdf
[13:08:12] <CosmicDJ> I knew there was smth fishy in my serverroom -> http://www.ixibo.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/185373image005.jpg ;)
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[13:22:33] <ofu> hi
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[13:24:47] <ofu> so SUN announces openstorage-gear today... but openstorage.org is somewhat funny
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[13:35:28] <Cyrille> so storage is the next thing Sun won't be making any money from?
[13:36:46] <hali> they are already making money from storage, just not enough
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[13:38:59] <m0zzzy> hi folks
[13:39:09] <CosmicDJ> Cyrille: hm what are the other things sun don't make money with?
[13:39:10] <m0zzzy> can I specify boot order for non-global zones?
[13:39:38] <m0zzzy> I want to stick to certain subinterface name
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[13:40:18] <Cyrille> (open)Solaris, (open)Office, (open)software in general. Hence my worry about the upcoming (open)storage.
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[13:41:59] <CosmicDJ> Cyrille: why should they charge money for beta testing solaris next? (Yes, I know M$ does that...)
[13:42:26] <Cyrille> CosmicDJ, I'm exaggerating, obviously, but it's just that the whole opening things and getting money from service and support doesn't seem to have panned out the way they were envisioning it would.
[13:43:01] <Cyrille> CosmicDJ, they're not charging for Solaris since the OpenSolaris move either.
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[13:44:02] <CosmicDJ> Cyrille: would anyone here use solaris10 at home if you have to pay for it?
[13:45:18] <michael-03> pay how?
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[13:46:06] <codestr0m> CosmicDJ: zarro, but I hope this isn't in reference to codec issues :P
[13:46:44] <michael-03> you pay with your soul by using proprietary software wiiiiiiii
[13:47:19] <Cyrille> CosmicDJ, probably not (though there are a number of people using Windows at home and paying for it), but as said, letting people use Solaris for free at home didn't seem to have the expected effects on its adoption by customers willing to pay for support and services.
[13:48:24] <CosmicDJ> Cyrille: how do you know?
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[13:50:04] <codestr0m> CosmicDJ: I don't think Sun thought people (home consumers) would pay for Solaris? that's like how much % of their current revenue model?
[13:51:06] <CosmicDJ> no idea, but maybe Cyrille has ;)
[13:52:56] <Cyrille> well, I didn't notice the surge in revenue caused by half the corporate Linux users switching back to Solaris ;-)
[13:53:39] <codestr0m> Cyrille: sarcasm?
[13:53:52] <Cyrille> no, I don't think Sun expected home users to pay for Solaris. I think, however, that they were expecting an increase in adoption leading to side revenue in the form of support contracts and service.
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[13:55:02] <Cyrille> anyway, I don't attend the big strategy meetings at Sun, so I obviously don't know for sure what their plans are, though that was my impression.
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[13:56:10] <codestr0m> well.. I'd hope they are smart like M$ (notice the $) and cater more to the developers... cause where there is code/apps.. the consumers will go
[13:56:26] <codestr0m> now the only problem with the ISV model in oss is that.. it's not really there
[13:56:49] <codestr0m> I mean.. who *is* making money off foss.. Trolltech? RH?...
[13:56:56] <codestr0m> IBM?
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[13:57:38] <Cyrille> novell?
[13:58:50] <codestr0m> if I had to guess.. I would say Mono is probably profitable
[13:59:34] <codestr0m> and if the Mono part isn't.. then I *know* other companies around the project are, but I doubt any of them are in a $B USD market cap
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[13:59:44] <Berny> hi guys
[13:59:55] <codestr0m> if google opens their framework more then you can add them to the list, but that's more an after-thought
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[14:00:00] <Berny> anyone running opensolaris on a sony ar71?
[14:00:10] <dustman> Solaris support contracts are way too expensive for home users
[14:00:32] <codestr0m> Berny: if you're having drivers issues.. feel free to ask.. if you are checking for HCL. there's a list you can reference
[14:00:33] <dustman> many wouldn't mind paying 30-5$ per year
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[14:01:07] <dustman> 30-50$ *
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[14:02:35] <Berny> codestr0m, it's not in the hcl... been there... so far i know the ar71zu to have a marvell gbit nic. wlan i supposed to to be some intel
[14:03:15] <Berny> though i'd rather see the device detection tool output or have one already running that beast who can confirm at least networking works
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[14:09:18] <michael-03> Anyone know what to do if on shutdown it seems to shut down but doesn't console output seems right, power led even turns off but it still stays 'on'
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[14:25:57] <dustman> Berny: Applications > System Tools > Device Driver Utility
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[14:37:23] <Berny> dustman, if you have a sony ar71zu please let me know the result... i'm still thinking of buying one of these
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[14:56:46] <mikeconcepts> is it possible to watch full episodes at abc.com somehow on 2008.11? perhaps wine firefox?
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[15:13:28] <trygvis> uhm, isn't it possible to snapshot zdevs?
[15:14:03] <trygvis> I just did a zfs snapshot, but it doesn't show up when I do zfs list
[15:15:26] <trygvis> hm, it is there in some form as I couldn't create a new snapshot with the same name
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[15:15:43] <holcomb> the ndmp on the new storage stuff - is that the ndmpd from sxce?
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[15:17:46] <Stric> trygvis: latest 'zfs list' has changed default to only list filesystems.. try zfs list -t snapshot
[15:19:22] <_mary_kate_> Stric: it has?  hm...
[15:19:39] <trygvis> right
[15:19:46] <Stric> I installed the snv101a based 2008.11rc and it does not list snapshots by default
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[15:21:19] <CosmicDJ> Stric: thats right
[15:22:16] <michael-03> It was changed in build 99 or 100 I thought
[15:22:50] <michael-03> Because if you regularly take snapshots the list becomes unwieldy long.
[15:23:08] <holcomb> definitely a change for the better
[15:23:24] <CosmicDJ> or... zfs list with 100-1000's of filesystems already took ages ;) now add another 100-1000's snapshots to that list ;)
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[15:44:58] <codestr0m> I know of other tools which mess with elf binaries, but does elfedit have a home outside of sun? or started there and only exists in ON?
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[17:31:14] <Asako> hey, anybody set up a cluster before?
[17:32:29] <pizdec> i did. once. in 2000. does this count?
[17:32:58] <benley> A Cluster?
[17:33:01] <Asako> don't think so
[17:33:03] <Asako> using sun cluster
[17:33:06] <benley> ah, no
[17:33:35] <Asako> Cluster.Framework: [ID 801593 daemon.error] stderr: sctest1: RPC: Program not registered
[17:33:40] <Asako> that's why my log says
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[17:40:35] <xRaich[o]2x> yay finally got my new thinkpad. opensolaris runs like a charm :D
[17:40:58] <holcomb> model?
[17:41:02] * holcomb in the market
[17:41:04] <xRaich[o]2x> sl500
[17:41:20] <xRaich[o]2x> upgraded it to 4GB ram
[17:43:36] <holcomb> wow nice.
[17:44:32] <xRaich[o]2x> i never though it would make THIS much of a difference with 64-bit and 4GB ram. but zfs became REAL fast
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[17:45:33] <codestr0m> xRaich[o]2x: congrats
[17:45:38] <elektronkind> the more RAM, the better :) But yeah, ZFS is really in its element when on a 64bit kernel
[17:45:55] <xRaich[o]2x> codestr0m: thanks. even the webcam seems to be supported :P and that weird usb stuff
[17:46:00] <holcomb> what is "intel turbo memory"?
[17:46:05] <xRaich[o]2x> arg i mean umts
[17:46:05] <codestr0m> xRaich[o]2x: which laptop?
[17:46:15] <xRaich[o]2x> codestr0m: thinkpad sl500
[17:46:16] <codestr0m> oh 3g card?
[17:46:59] <xRaich[o]2x> the odd thing is that the intel 5100 wireless card doesn't work even though the drivers have been added in build 99
[17:47:13] <FrostCS> holcomb, it's for when you press the "Turbo" button.
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[17:47:55] <benley> wow the sl500 looks huge
[17:48:42] <xRaich[o]2x> benley: not really. it's a bit thicker than my fujitsu but not that much
[17:49:06] <xRaich[o]2x> the good thing is that it's really quiet
[17:49:17] <benley> note that I carry a macbook air :-P
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[17:49:27] <benley> the thinkpad sl300 looks more tolerable
[17:49:49] <xRaich[o]2x> i though about that one but this one was more than 200 euro less
[17:49:54] <RavenSlay31> New Indiana-b.98 VM-guest with 512mb RAM. Processor was running at 100% for the first least 10 min. and is now at a steady 50% . Is this expected behavior .. maybe zfs doing first-time checks?
[17:50:09] <RavenSlay31> gnome sys-mon doesn't point out an obvious culprit
[17:51:48] <RavenSlay31> FrostCS: holcomb: intel "Turbo" - wow I had a machine with that some 10+ years ago .. didn't know what it was but we always left it on. memories
[17:52:44] <FrostCS> they brought back the "turbo" phrase for something else now, lol not like the comical turbo from back in the day
[17:52:58] <FrostCS> I just figured it would start the flashbacks :-P
[17:53:00] <holcomb> yeah it looks like some kind of disk cache
[17:53:09] <FrostCS> yea, it's comical II
[17:53:14] <RavenSlay31> LOL
[17:53:37] <FrostCS> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Turbo_Memory
[17:53:59] <FrostCS> have a laugh
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[17:54:24] <RavenSlay31> i thought pentiumIV was the comical "Tubo II" - wheels are spinning, really really fast, but no work is being done...
[17:54:24] <Asako> Unable to contact "sctest1" at this time.
[17:54:30] <Asako> why would scinstall say that?
[17:54:51] <maxote> it's better to use pure 8 GiB or 16 GiB, none of Turbo
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[17:55:13] <holcomb> would be nice if it was just a usable bit of flash
[17:55:22] <holcomb> add a l2arc to your laptop or something...
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[17:57:03] <RavenSlay31> is prstat my 'top' friend in solaris?
[17:57:13] <Asako> rpcinfo: can't contact portmapper: RPC: Authentication error;
[17:57:17] <Asako> any way to fix that?
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[18:02:03] <RavenSlay31> FrostCS: Actually the FLASH mem makes sense to me .. There must be many system  files and binaries that are read frequently but written rarely or never. So  why not put them on flash?
[18:02:38] <RavenSlay31> Now I'm sure intel will f* it up, and no one else will want to try it after that ;)
[18:02:39] <FrostCS> does it work on solaris? ;-)
[18:03:09] <RavenSlay31> no idea - your the expert
[18:04:05] <FrostCS> I think it was mainly designed to help out the sluggish pig "vista" through the boot process
[18:04:18] <holcomb> yeah it requires some kind of special driver
[18:04:27] <FrostCS> though, I haven't heard any life changing testimonials from any windows users..
[18:04:35] <holcomb> heaven forbid you would make it generic and let the os decide what to do with it
[18:04:36] <FrostCS> mainly since most won't use vista anyhow
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[18:10:15] <RavenSlay31> I knew vista was in trouble when it was late :-P
[18:10:22] <RavenSlay31> so like 2003
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[18:23:21] <jbk> cool.. you can download a vmware image of a virtual fishworks appliance
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[18:32:19] <holcomb> so for the fishworks cluster - if the read ssds are on the head node, does it dynamically add/remove l2arc devices when failing over?
[18:32:40] <jbk> i'm a bit surprised on the download page they don't at least also do something w/ virtualbox
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[18:33:03] <jbk> it looks like only one of the 3 models supports clustering
[18:33:09] <_mary_kate_> holcomb: i don't think anyone knows how fishworks clustering works yet
[18:33:13] <holcomb> heh
[18:33:17] <jbk> i suspect all the devices are then shared
[18:33:21] <_mary_kate_> at least not when it was being discussed earlier
[18:33:40] <_mary_kate_> jbk: that's the impression i got, which would suggest sun cluster might be involved
[18:33:44] <jbk> _mary_kate_: weslows has written a bit about it
[18:33:52] <holcomb> it uses some special card
[18:33:55] <holcomb> clustron
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[18:34:49] <jbk> it looks to be fairly simply though
[18:34:55] <jbk> 2 serial + 1 ethernet port
[18:35:13] <jbk> err simple
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[18:35:44] <jbk> i think they might have something good on their hands
[18:35:53] <jbk> but already i see some things they need to be prepared to deal with
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[18:36:23] <jbk> all the storage vendors seem to have beaten into their customers 'fc drives == good, sata == slow and bad'
[18:36:53] <jbk> so they're immediately gonna thing 'oh, it's just a bunch of sata drives, pfft that's cheap, i'll stick with my faster fc drives'
[18:37:23] <jbk> or 'sata drives fail too often, even for my little 50tb shop, i'll spend too much time replacing drives if i don't use fc'
[18:37:36] <holcomb> seems like the could add fc jbods pretty easily
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[18:37:52] <holcomb> the/they
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[18:51:21] <holcomb> oh and i love the infomercials.  bryan cantrill is a born salesman
[18:52:17] <xRaich[o]2x> link?
[18:52:35] <holcomb> http://wikis.sun.com/display/BluePrints/Sun%20Storage%207000%20Management%20Software
[18:53:57] <sommerfeld> _mary_kate_: Keith's blog entry leaves a fairly wide trail of breadcrumbs.
[18:54:28] <sommerfeld> http://blogs.sun.com/wesolows/
[18:54:33] <storycrafter> ok, i don't mind exposing my ignorance.  what is wrong with the build farm having dns configured?
[18:56:21] <xRaich[o]2x> holcomb: thanks
[18:57:38] <xRaich[o]2x> holcomb: seems like he had less coffee than in his dtrace presentation at google :P
[18:57:43] <holcomb> haha
[18:58:41] <xRaich[o]2x> nevertheless that was one of the best tech talks i ever saw
[18:58:53] <CIA-59> Mark Shellenbaum <Mark.Shellenbaum at Sun dot COM>: PSARC/2008/659 New ZFS "passthrough-x" ACL inheritance rules, 6765166 Need to provide mechanism to optionally inherit ACE_EXECUTE
[18:59:33] <Asako> ok, I have a question
[18:59:43] <Asako> scconf:  Failed to add quorum device (d7) - unable to scrub the device.
[18:59:54] <Asako> how do I fix that?
[19:01:31] <idle-boy> CIA-59!
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[19:04:57] <xRaich[o]2x> holcomb: wow that's a nice dtrace interface
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[19:24:27] <holcomb> last link is broken on that page
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[19:28:46] <estibi> Asako: btw, there is the #OHAC channel
[19:29:12] <estibi> you can ask there
[19:31:09] <dburge1> can anyone recommend a tool for syncing my IPOD with opensolaris
[19:35:22] <szt> isn't that what gpod is for?
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[19:41:09] <Asako> thanks
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[19:45:57] <PerterB> google suggests that gpod is actually a sex toy
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[19:51:59] <e^ipi> it's the internet
[19:52:15] <e^ipi> no matter what your search terms are, eventually you stumble on porn
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[19:55:35] <FrostCS> don't even do an image search for mickey mouse.
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[19:58:52] <CIA-59> James Marks - Sun Microsystems <James.Marks at Sun dot COM>: 6717615 Ambiguous treatment of offline cpus with respect to DR
[19:59:51] <_mary_kate_> yay, prefetching: http://rafb.net/p/eBoQJw69.html
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[20:04:10] <kim0> duh, why does the new 7110 storage box only use 146G disks!!
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[20:05:14] <pumpkin_> aren't they 15k RPM?
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[20:05:23] <fepede> hello! I got opensolaris on a remote box that is supposed to have a SATA controller. How do I see if it is supported?
[20:05:28] <e^ipi> do they make bigger 2.5" SAS drives?
[20:05:42] <e^ipi> fepede, check the device driver util
[20:05:47] <e^ipi> it's on the desktop
[20:06:21] <e^ipi> assuming we're talking about 2008.xx here
[20:06:33] <_mary_kate_> e^ipi: 350 or 400, i think
[20:06:47] <e^ipi> sas?
[20:06:48] <fepede> it's a 2008.05 i only have ssh account on it. I'll check the device driver util!
[20:07:12] <pumpkin_> 15k rpm?
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[20:08:19] <kim0> oh crap why not 300G 3.5''
[20:08:54] <Auralis_> 3.5" drives are slower and eat more juice
[20:09:29] <kim0> well they hold more food as well!
[20:09:39] <pumpkin_> the head has a longer distance to travel
[20:09:43] <kim0> their offerings jump from 2T to 44T !!
[20:09:56] <kim0> what about someone who needs 6 or 8
[20:10:08] <e^ipi> expand it with a JBOD
[20:10:21] <mui> hmm
[20:10:28] <kim0> hope it's exandable easily ..
[20:10:29] <mui> how I can use zfs from singleuser mode
[20:10:37] <mui> or should it jsut work?
[20:10:38] * kim0 grabs the datasheet
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[20:10:45] <e^ipi> kim0, it's one of the bullet points
[20:10:56] <e^ipi> "expand it with a jbod"
[20:10:59] <kim0> that would be awesome
[20:11:09] <kim0> e^ipi: like external disk shelfes ?
[20:11:11] <e^ipi> run that through the english -> marketspeak translator
[20:11:20] <e^ipi> yes
[20:11:32] <e^ipi> j4000 series, dell md1000, whatever
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[20:12:12] <kim0> e^ipi: nice they finally seem to have made a decent web UI
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[20:17:16] <kim0> I hope those 7000 series understand tiered storage .. so when I add sata jbod's .. I can have them as tier 2 for older data !
[20:17:32] <kim0> that would be seriously cool
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[20:17:54] <Auralis_> use QFS/SAM-FS and you have all the tiered storage that you want, don't to offline tapes
[20:18:44] <kim0> nah zfs only I meant
[20:19:26] <e^ipi> kim0, an external jbod is likely to be as fast as the internal disks
[20:19:42] <e^ipi> depending on how it's connected
[20:19:45] <kim0> but it will likely be sata 7200 in my case :)
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[20:21:17] <mshadle> after booting back into snv_98 from snv_101, i get this error: http://mikehost.com/~mike/tmp/zfs1.jpg - can anyone help? it's like it mounts the filesystems twice.
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[20:24:57] <e^ipi> heh, refit is stupid
[20:25:01] <e^ipi> it thinks solaris is linux
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[20:29:04] <FrostCS> e^ipi, have it join up with thousands of other people...
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[20:29:44] <xRaich[o]2x> but it looks the same! *scnr*
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[20:30:51] <e^ipi> i think refit just detects the bootloader and makes a stab at it accordingly
[20:31:03] <e^ipi> id est, it assumes grub = linux
[20:31:52] <xRaich[o]2x> e^ipi: submit a bugreport: "insulting assumption" :P
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[20:31:52] <e^ipi> stupid apple having to be different than everyone else...
[20:32:15] <FrostCS> isn't that their motto? :-P
[20:32:41] <mshadle> alright folks. $$ to who can work with me and fix my issue.
[20:32:55] <vmlemon_> It's now "be the same, but shiny, sucky and silver" or something like that ;)
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[20:33:53] <e^ipi> meh, i like macs in general, i'm just having to deal with EFI issues
[20:34:32] <e^ipi> also, the guys that own ath haven't integrated the newest binary blob from atheros so wifi doesn't work
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[20:38:14] * microchip_ installs Linux on e^ipi just to torture him :p
[20:38:17] <mshadle> http://mikehost.com/~mike/tmp/zfs.txt - i will give someone money to help me fix #5, bonus for #4.
[20:38:57] <holcomb> it's not mounting twice, you've got some gunk in that directory probably
[20:39:05] <holcomb> where's my $$$ ?
[20:39:07] <holcomb> :)
[20:39:15] <mshadle> heh.
[20:39:30] <mshadle> yeah the gunk is the right data - already mounted.
[20:39:48] <holcomb> then you've got two filesystems with that mountpoint?
[20:39:53] <mshadle> no
[20:39:58] <holcomb> oh.  no money for me
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[20:40:17] <mshadle> works fine in snv_101 , worked fine in snv_98, but once i went to 101, then back to 98, now i get this
[20:41:10] <mshadle> and i cant seem to get the rest of the services to process
[20:41:37] <mshadle> 'clear' just retries it, enabling other services that are supposed to run after doesnt work
[20:42:16] <Auralis_> umount the directory, then clear the offending service and see if it come sup
[20:42:30] <mshadle> i tried zfs umount tank
[20:42:52] <mshadle> it only let me umount a couple of them - i got it down to just 'tank' was still left i think
[20:42:53] * kim0 watches the new 7000 vids : http://wikis.sun.com/display/BluePrints/Sun+Storage+7000+Management+Software
[20:42:53] <Auralis_> no umount /tank/home
[20:43:19] <mshadle> it uses zfs mountpoint not legacy, i will try that again though
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[20:44:40] <mshadle> yup.
[20:44:50] <mshadle> umount /tank/home/mike doesnt give me an error
[20:44:58] <mshadle> but zfs list still shows it mounted and its still mounted
[20:45:09] <mshadle> umount /tank says not in mnttab
[20:45:47] <Auralis_> take a look at /etc/vfstab maybe it tries to mount it there for some stupid reason
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[20:49:36] <holcomb> what's the name of your root pool?
[20:49:45] <holcomb> oh nm
[20:49:46] <holcomb> rpool
[20:50:31] <mshadle> well i manually started ssh at least now this is easier to work with.
[20:50:53] <Asako> should I use opensolaris instead of solaris 10?
[20:51:09] <e^ipi> for what task
[20:51:16] <Asako> setting up a cluster
[20:51:42] <Asako> no matter, I'm almost done
[20:51:47] <e^ipi> do you need any of the newest bits, or would you prefer something that's more or less feature-locked and well supported
[20:51:50] <Asako> clresource:  (C720144) Validation of resource hasp-rs in resource group zfs-group1 on node sctest1 failed.
[20:51:56] <Asako> that's the only issue I have
[20:52:04] <Asako> I want stability
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[20:54:55] <mshadle> run solaris then. that's my opinion and what i've been told.
[20:55:10] <mshadle> main reason i am running sxce/nevada was for the in-kernel cifs server which i am not even using.
[20:55:20] <Asako> yeah
[20:55:37] <Asako> why can't I create a resource?
[20:56:22] <Asako> I've followed every blog and wiki I can find exactly
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[20:57:59] <Asako> the cluster is online
[20:58:52] <CIA-59> Adrian Frost <Adrian.Frost at Sun dot COM>: 6759273 fmadm faulty gives insufficient info to identify correct CPU FRU location
[20:58:53] <CIA-59> Dina K Nimeh <Dina.Nimeh at Sun dot Com>: 6743207 lofi page cache fix does not work for non-8K pagesizes
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[21:05:13] <mshadle> great. now snv_98 is crapped out slow too. wtf
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[21:07:30] <axisys_> anyone here used opensso? i wanted to find out a way to integrate sso in ssh.. does not look like opensso offer that based on http://wikis.sun.com/display/OpenSSO/Home
[21:07:54] <jbk> opensso seems to think all the world is http
[21:08:02] <axisys_> jbk: heh
[21:08:19] <jbk> if they have a C api, you could write a pam module
[21:08:34] <axisys_> jbk: sun identity manager may have the solution but cost thousands of dollars *ouch*
[21:09:07] <axisys_> jbk: would be nice if I did not need a local account .. if pam says ok I will be in..
[21:09:50] <axisys_> jbk: i am not a programmer and hoping there is a pam module that is flexible enough that I can customize it to just that
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[21:11:05] <axisys_> i have 300 servers and i use securid's radius module to authenticate people .. but it requires a local account and some home grown script to push the user to a list of hosts only which he/she need access
[21:11:22] <Ouro> any hints on why cvs might be running out of memory for large files even though 'limit' says that datasize is unlimited?
[21:11:56] <Ouro> i have 1G RAM and 8G of swap unusued, so it is obviously not a global memory problem
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[21:12:41] <Auralis_> maybe cvs is hitting the 2gig wall for 32bit apps?
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[21:13:04] <Ouro> no, the file is less than 64 MB
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[21:13:39] <Ouro> i remember having a similar issue on netbsd before, but i do not remember what the solution was
[21:14:12] <jbit> Ouro: could be out of space on /tmp or so?
[21:14:42] <Ouro> well /tmp is swap-backed so it currently has 8G available
[21:14:52] <Ouro> is there some other per-process limit that i am missing?
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[21:17:16] <Ouro> unless this is actually a client problem (cvs is pretty ambiguous about this), but i think not
[21:18:15] <mshadle> okay. i can SCP/FTP files *from* my snv_98/snv_101 box -> linux/windows. but when i try to copy/ftp/scp files from another machine *to* my snv box, it's stalled/slow/messed up.
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[21:18:56] <e^ipi> zpool status
[21:19:01] <e^ipi> it could be a dead drive
[21:19:12] <mshadle> no errors
[21:20:06] <xRaich[o]2x1> mshadle: intel sata controller?
[21:20:12] <mshadle> nope
[21:20:15] <mshadle> two pci-x
[21:20:24] <mshadle> aoc-sata ones
[21:20:56] <lewiz> hi there.  anybody know if gst-register (gstreamer) is available anywhere?
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[21:23:33] <jrms> Hello
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[21:24:00] <jrms> I have installed SXCE b101 on my D630
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[21:24:20] <e^ipi> high five *clap*
[21:24:29] <jrms> I have a problem with my cpu fan, is running at a high speed all the time
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[21:24:55] <szt> jrms, that's good to know.  I just got one of those...
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[21:25:11] <szt> and joy, I get to do ndis-wrapper again...
[21:25:15] <lewiz> jrms: this isn't much use, but i have opensolaris 2008.11 RC1 on my d630 and I do not see that problem
[21:25:18] <e^ipi> yeah, acpi is pretty stupid
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[21:25:55] <lewiz> jrms: bios a13 if that's any use
[21:26:09] <jrms> lewiz: yes, is the more strange part, on 2008.05 works fine
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[21:26:52] <jrms> I read soemthing about power.conf and cpupm option, but this looks ok
[21:27:13] <jrms> lewiz: I don't know what is a13 :D
[21:27:40] <lewiz> jrms: it's just the latest bios you can download from dell on the d630 page
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[21:28:45] <steky> Hello all. Could some1 please help me how to uninstall opensolaris when I have on primary partion Windows XP?
[21:28:48] <jrms> lewiz: ohhh yes, I got it. But as in 2008.05 it works fine, I'm trying to avoid the bios upgrade :)
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[21:29:01] <redheat> hi everyone
[21:29:11] <redheat> this is the channel for opensolaris right?
[21:29:13] <pizdec> hi fedora
[21:29:27] <e^ipi> redheat, so the name would seem to imply
[21:29:31] <steky> Hello all. Could some1 please help me how to uninstall opensolaris when I have on primary partion Windows XP?
[21:29:41] <vmlemon_> Feadora? ;)
[21:29:48] <e^ipi> steky, step 1: don't ask a question twice in the course of 30 seconds
[21:29:52] <e^ipi> it's annoying
[21:30:01] <steky> ok sry for that
[21:30:07] <e^ipi> step 2, boot a dos disk, fdisk /mbr
[21:30:17] <e^ipi> and then just use windows' filesystem stuff to reclaim the partition
[21:30:37] <steky> i was trying to boot windows cd and fixmbr, it didn`t helped
[21:30:43] <redheat> I'm haivng a problem  installing opensolaris, the moment I inserted the live CD, it went up fine and the screen came up nicely only one thing didn't work, my mouse, my wireless mouse which part of my Microsoft Wireless laser Desktop set is not responding, the keyboard is working fine but not the mouse can anyone help me with that?
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[21:31:35] <e^ipi> redheat, bluetooth?
[21:32:05] <redheat> yes
[21:32:17] <e^ipi> okay, so what you need to do is this: write a bluetooth stack
[21:32:18] <redheat> no, sorry it uses laster not bluetooth
[21:32:33] <redheat> laser not bluetooth..
[21:32:36] <e^ipi> umm
[21:32:41] <vmlemon_> Laser wasn't a way of connecting stuff to a computer
[21:32:47] <vmlemon_> last time I checked
[21:32:52] <e^ipi> "it uses laser, not USB"
[21:32:55] <e^ipi> same statement
[21:32:56] <lewiz> redheat: does it have a bluetooth logo on the reverse of the mouse?
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[21:33:19] <redheat> the whole desktop set is called Microsoft Laser Desktop 5000
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[21:34:05] <elektronkind> he's talking abou a "laser" mouse
[21:34:09] <redheat> for added accuracy they use a laser beam not a bluetooth RF channel, but the dock which both the keyboard and the mouse are connected to is connected to my computer using USB 2.0
[21:34:11] <elektronkind> aka, a optical mouse
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[21:34:24] <vmlemon_> If it uses a proprietary radio technology (i.e. doesn't feature a Bluetooth logo somewere visible either on the device, or on the packaging), then you might need to re-pair the receiver with he mouse
[21:34:33] <redheat> not optical, but in any case it doesn't use Bluetooth
[21:34:36] <vmlemon_> *the
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[21:34:51] <Stric> redheat: it's not laser vs bluetooth.. it's laser vs led vs ball   and bluetooth vs usb vs otherradio vs ps/2 vs serial
[21:34:52] <redheat> I did try to repair it but it didn't work
[21:34:56] <lewiz> it doesn't seem to be a BT mouse
[21:35:29] <elektronkind> http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/productdetails.aspx?pid=068
[21:35:32] <elektronkind> is that it?
[21:35:44] <redheat> Stric, I'm not pitting one technology vs other..it's the way it is when it comes
[21:36:07] <Stric> redheat: you're saying "it's not a car, it's blue."
[21:36:17] <redheat> yep that's the one..
[21:36:23] <lewiz> redheat: try: tail -f /var/adm/messages and then disconnect the USB dongle for the mouse
[21:36:23] <redheat> elktronkid, that's the one.
[21:37:00] <redheat> lewiz, where shoud I write that ..you mean in a terminal? I'm no expert in solaris, or linux in general, but I love 'em..
[21:37:18] <elektronkind> 1) it is a optical mouse (that's where the "laser" part comes in)
[21:37:33] <e^ipi> elektronkind, we've moved past that...
[21:37:35] <elektronkind> 2) it's not bluetooth, it's some proprietary RF between the mouse and docking station
[21:37:37] <e^ipi> try'n keep up ;)
[21:37:41] <redheat> exactly.
[21:37:53] <elektronkind> 3) it's the docking station that should look like a USB mouse device to the OS
[21:37:54] <redheat> yeah, but the dokcing station uses USB 2.0
[21:37:54] <Ouroboros> heh
[21:38:16] <e^ipi> usb2 is supported
[21:38:21] <e^ipi> just not bluetooth yet
[21:38:21] <elektronkind> can you do a 'cfgadm -alv' (as root... pfexec it) and post it to pastebin.ca ?
[21:38:21] <lewiz> redheat: yep, in a terminal.  when you disconnect it you should see a bunch of messages about USB.  this will confirm that solaris can see the dongle
[21:38:36] <redheat> ok..
[21:38:52] <redheat> lewiz, tell me that command again..
[21:39:14] <vmlemon_> [20:37] <lewiz> redheat: try: tail -f /var/adm/messages and then disconnect the USB dongle for the mouse
[21:39:14] <redheat> man I should have done this chat from my laptop, I'm doing from my desktop, from windows xp pro,
[21:39:14] <lewiz> redheat: try the cfgadm that elektronkind suggested, that will show it as well
[21:39:41] <redheat> cfgadm..roger that..
[21:40:05] <elektronkind> pfexec cfgadm -alv
[21:40:12] <redheat> ok I will have to disconnect and try that now..guys thank you so much for your help I'm truly indebted..I'll give it a try now..
[21:40:13] <redheat> ok
[21:40:41] <elektronkind> also look at the logs as lewiz pointed out
[21:40:48] <redheat> roger that..
[21:40:55] <elektronkind> there might be a line there saying "bad mouse! BAD MOUSE!"
[21:41:06] <vmlemon_> Hah
[21:41:09] <e^ipi> "error: bad mouse. committing seppuku"
[21:41:22] <vmlemon_> DangerMouse! ;)
[21:41:28] <e^ipi> +1
[21:41:31] <elektronkind> lp0: mouse on fire
[21:41:31] <redheat> lol
[21:41:38] <elektronkind> PC LOAD LETTER ??
[21:41:44] <redheat> you mean I have a mouse on Crack..but crack is wack..
[21:41:51] <Ouroboros> 'mouse on fire' sounds like a good band/album name
[21:41:56] <redheat> roger taht..
[21:41:59] <redheat> that*
[21:42:12] <redheat> ok gotta go now..thank you all for your hlep truly appreciate it..
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[21:42:31] <lewiz> nice
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[21:43:36] <elektronkind> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lp0_on_fire
[21:43:45] <elektronkind> I look at that now and then to get a luagh
[21:43:50] <elektronkind> er laugh even
[21:44:31] <vmlemon_> Shame it rarely appears ;)
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[21:45:26] <jrms> Another question: How can I create a "virtual" network interface?
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[21:45:35] <Ouroboros> next time you "steal something else" you can make it happen :)
[21:45:40] <vmlemon_> http://web.archive.org/web/20061103141307/http://www.kalamazoolinux.org/mailarchive/0006/msg00195.html
[21:45:41] <jrms> not a something:#
[21:45:41] <elektronkind> jrms: like a interface alias?
[21:45:57] <jrms> elektronkind: like a dummy interface on linux
[21:46:14] <jrms> elektronkind: an interface not attached to a real device
[21:46:22] <elektronkind> jrms: the vni driver... man vni
[21:46:25] <Asako> is there anything like drbd on solaris?
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[21:46:35] <elektronkind> NAME
[21:46:35] <elektronkind>      vni - STREAMS virtual network interface driver
[21:46:39] <vmlemon_> " P.S.  My printer seems to be working fine, and my smoke alarm hasn't went off yet."
[21:46:41] <jrms> elektronkind: thanks
[21:47:00] <elektronkind> no problem. should be a simple ifconfig away
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[21:47:16] <jrms> elektronkind: good
[21:47:20] <Ouroboros> nice, on linux i had to recompile the kernel to get the dummy interface
[21:47:54] <elektronkind> [dghent@tritium]~$ pfexec ifconfig vni0 plumb
[21:47:54] <elektronkind> [dghent@tritium]~$ pfexec ifconfig vni0 3.3.3.3 up
[21:47:54] <elektronkind> [dghent@tritium]~$ ifconfig vni0
[21:47:54] <elektronkind> vni0: flags=20010100c1<UP,RUNNING,NOARP,NOXMIT,IPv4,VIRTUAL> mtu 0 index 4
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[21:48:16] <elektronkind> there ya go... and it pings!
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[21:51:34] <jrms> elektronkind: but i can't use it with VirtualBox :(
[21:51:39] <Ouroboros> next apr 1 i am putting that "printer on fire" on the printer LCD in the office :)
[21:52:12] <Ouroboros> although people are so clueless they will probably never look at the readout :(
[21:52:18] <vmlemon_> Hah
[21:52:32] <lewiz> i guess nobody else is seeing an issue where things (e.g. terminal, pidgin, firefox) hang if you type too much at them?
[21:52:43] <vmlemon_> Needs an isPrinterBurning() syscall
[21:52:58] <Ouroboros> lewiz: under heavy cpu/memory load perhaps
[21:53:08] <lewiz> Ouroboros: no, system is idle
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[21:54:03] <jbk> i must say, the openstorage vm is pretty nice
[21:54:05] <Ouroboros> check memory/swap usage in top
[21:54:54] <lewiz> Ouroboros: actually, it's specific to gtk applications, maybe.  i kicked off an xterm under truss but i couldn't replicate it
[21:54:56] <e^ipi> GAH!
[21:54:58] <e^ipi> fuck top.
[21:54:59] <e^ipi> prstat
[21:55:05] <Asako> here's a question, can I uninstall sun cluster?
[21:55:10] <Asako> or do I need to reinstall?
[21:55:43] <lewiz> Asako: i've seen it in a disabled state before now
[21:55:47] <jrms> Asako: with scinstall you can unintall it
[21:55:48] <Ouroboros> e^ipi: hm, looks almost identical?
[21:56:01] <Asako> I'm thinking AVS is more what I need
[21:56:12] <palowoda> top is known not to be accurate on solaris.  use prstat.
[21:56:17] <Ouroboros> ah
[21:56:25] <MindDrive> Last I checked, prstat doesn't give overall memory/swap usage, unless there's an option I haven't seen?
[21:56:33] <Stric> MindDrive: it doesn't
[21:56:35] <elektronkind> solaris plays jedi mind tricks on top
[21:56:43] <e^ipi> palowoda, it's also slower, and chews through resources much faster
[21:56:46] <Asako> prstat -T?
[21:56:52] <e^ipi> open()/read()/close() vs pread()
[21:57:17] <lewiz> echo '::memstat' | pfexec mdb -k
[21:57:22] <jbk> if you want memory or swap usage, use vmstat
[21:57:28] <Asako> is there a package for AVS?
[21:57:33] <Asako> or do I just build the source?
[21:58:02] <elektronkind> are you talking about on solaris 10 or opensolaris?
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[21:58:09] <Asako> solaris 10
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[21:58:14] <elektronkind> if you're talking about using AVS on opensolaris, it's in there
[21:58:15] <elektronkind> ah
[21:58:17] <Asako> guess I could reinstall with opensolaris
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[21:58:26] <elektronkind> with solaris 10, AVS is still a pay-for product
[21:58:27] <palowoda> e^ipi: brenden did a good presentation with dtrace on why top wasn't accurate when used with on solaris in the past.  I agree just don't use top.
[21:58:32] * elektronkind just went down this road
[21:58:51] <CIA-59> jv227347 <Jordan.Vaughan at Sun dot com>: 6400006 libzonecfg.so.1 zonecfg_strerror() doesn't handle Z_SYSTEM, 6579865 zone_rctl_name incorrectly used like a char * in libzonecfg.c, 6554794 zoneadm.c: return value of strcmp(3C) compared with NULL pointer
[21:58:52] <CIA-59> jv227347 <Jordan.Vaughan at Sun dot com>: 6722583 zoneadmd's default multicast route logic can go, 6722022 sendmail's new default of config/local_only=true spews in shared-stack zones
[21:59:10] <elektronkind> I've seen mention on the storage-discuss list from one guy who was able to build the AVS source on solaris 10 and use it there
[21:59:22] <e^ipi> palowoda, the original arc case to integrate top was to 'ln -s prstat top'
[21:59:35] <e^ipi> someone whined so we got broken top instead of working symlink
[21:59:52] <Asako> elektronkind, it's included by default?
[22:00:14] <Asako> guess I'll be reformatting
[22:00:41] <e^ipi> Asako, it's openhacluster i think you'll be looking for
[22:01:06] <e^ipi> keeping in mind that i've never bothered using it or even looking at it too deeply, i think that openhacluster & avs are roughly the same thing
[22:01:12] <elektronkind> Asako: in opensolaris, avs is included by default
[22:01:13] <Asako> sounds like it
[22:01:20] <Asako> thanks
[22:01:30] <Asako> I wish drbd would just get ported to solaris
[22:02:41] <elektronkind> why? AVS is what drbd wishes it would grow up to be
[22:05:48] <Asako> for simplicity
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[22:07:11] <e^ipi> morning Gman
[22:07:19] <Gman> hey john
[22:07:46] <e^ipi> i managed to get indiana installed on the macbook
[22:08:02] <e^ipi> there's a bug in the installer such that it calls fdisk when it shouldn't
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[22:08:21] <e^ipi> ( now you have no excuse ;) )
[22:09:04] <jbk> haha
[22:09:17] <Asako> would AVS handle the failover?
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[22:09:27] <Asako> like moving IPs
[22:09:34] <e^ipi> Asako, that's the entire purpose of it
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[22:14:50] <Gman> e^ipi: sweet, blog about it ;)
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[22:15:09] <high-rez> Can I get some opinions on zfs vs hardware raid?  I have a megaraid card connected to 4 sata drives - currently doing raid5.  Is there any benefit to doing raid-z instead of using the card?
[22:15:12] <snejk> hi, anyway to get the compile flags/options for CSW  pkgs ?
[22:15:22] <snejk> ie Blastwave
[22:16:00] <e^ipi> ask the package maintainer
[22:16:34] <snejk> e^ipi: the link doesnt work @ blastwvae unfortunately, http://www.blastwave.org/packages.php/openvpn
[22:16:43] <snejk> 404
[22:16:50] <e^ipi> so ask whoever put the package together
[22:17:00] <snejk> Alessio Cervellin :)
[22:17:37] <snejk> right, will use google
[22:17:57] <e^ipi> packages don't record build flags, so if --help doesn't say anything, you'll need to email the guy that built it
[22:18:01] <Ouroboros> ok, so it looks like my cvs process is dying at 256MB?
[22:18:03] <e^ipi> erm --version
[22:18:35] <e^ipi> high-rez, turn off hardware raid. it's silly
[22:18:45] <e^ipi> google://raid5+write+hole
[22:19:04] <snejk> e^ipi: Seems OpenVPN is complicated to compile on solaris 10. lot of build errors... will try to contact him
[22:19:06] <e^ipi> zfs is also pretty efficient about laying out blocks if you  just give it the whole disk
[22:20:08] <high-rez> i gotta figure out how to get this thing to export my disks as JBOD.
[22:20:08] <snejk> so does ZFS boot work OK on latest Solaris U6 ? worth upgrading?
[22:21:44] <e^ipi> probably works as well as it does in nevada
[22:22:02] <e^ipi> it's nice having your system disk checksummed
[22:22:45] <holcomb> it is awesome-o
[22:22:58] * xRaich[o]2x1 <3 ZFS
[22:22:59] <mshadle> if the hardware is supported
[22:23:10] <holcomb> i second that <3
[22:23:38] * high-rez would take place in the <3's but OpenSolaris won't boot on his machine :|
[22:23:39] <xRaich[o]2x1> and me loves my new thinkpad. everything is supported even fingerprint scanner and webcam
[22:24:41] <snejk> great
[22:24:53] <snejk> so zfs boot works on VMware too?
[22:24:54] <xRaich[o]2x1> high-rez: that sucks :/ did you submit a bugreport?
[22:25:47] * snejk running quite a few solaris 10 U5 in vmware
[22:26:02] <high-rez> Nope, someone here mentioned that it's likely a known nvidia bug ?
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[22:26:33] <comay> MindDrive, you can run prstat with -Z which provides totals
[22:27:30] <MindDrive> Thanks, Comay, that definitely is useful to me.
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[22:31:53] <Ouroboros> any hints on why my cvs process cannot allocate more memory upon hitting 256 MB in prstart
[22:31:59] <Ouroboros> *prstat
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[22:32:43] <Ouroboros> wait i think i know
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[22:33:55] <Ouroboros> i think it cannot allocate past physical memory limit, even though plenty of swap available
[22:34:30] <e^ipi> it shouldn't even know that
[22:34:44] <e^ipi> that's what OS's are for
[22:34:47] <Ouroboros> i bet you malloc is returning NULL in this case
[22:36:11] <dustman> is there somewhere a list of missing man pages for osol?
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[22:36:49] <Ouroboros> this might be a secondary question, but does solaris really use 3.5 GB of RAM while essentially idle?
[22:36:53] <dustman> I've got sxce as well and could manually add missing packages
[22:37:04] <e^ipi> Ouroboros, are you using ZFS?
[22:37:07] <Ouroboros> yep
[22:37:11] <e^ipi> Ouroboros, then yes
[22:37:16] <e^ipi> it will use as much cache as you can give it
[22:37:18] <Ouroboros> ok, makes sense
[22:37:20] <jbit> Ouroboros: isnt that mostly cache?
[22:37:47] <e^ipi> empty ram is wasted ram
[22:37:51] <jbit> (damn, too late)
[22:38:06] <elektronkind> Ouroboros: echo ::memstat | pfexec mdb -k
[22:38:07] <e^ipi> i have 8Gb in my closet warmer, most of it is full of zfs ARC
[22:38:09] <Ouroboros> well, not if it is causing my other processes to fail
[22:38:15] <elektronkind> that'll show you where that RAM usage is going
[22:38:17] <jbit> e^ipi: yeah, its great ;P
[22:38:28] <e^ipi> Ouroboros, it won't cause your other processes to fail, it will eject clean pages immediatly
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[22:38:35] <e^ipi> and dirty pages ASAP
[22:38:45] <elektronkind> those, dirty, DIRTY pages
[22:38:53] <jbit> hah
[22:38:56] <Ouroboros> ok lemme write quick c program and see what happens
[22:38:57] * elektronkind fans self
[22:39:09] <alanc> e^ipi: while we always used to believe unused RAM is wasted RAM, I've also heard others argue recently that RAM used as cache that you don't need is wasted power, and maybe we should have a tuning knob there
[22:39:16] <vmlemon_> Don't forget the Yellow Pages in RAM, they could be dangerous if they build up ;)
[22:39:34] <norman> e^ipi: closet warmer = you got a server in your bathroom? or is it just a phrase i dont understand?
[22:39:45] <e^ipi> alanc, the ram banks are still on, no?
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[22:39:52] <alanc> turn it to "faster" to use all the RAM you can on your server, turn it to "power saver" when your laptop is on battery
[22:39:53] <jbit> alanc: i think seeking the disk during a cache miss is much more expensive
[22:40:09] <jbit> unless you have a r0x0r ram controller that can disable refresh of banks that are "unused"
[22:40:20] <e^ipi> i'm not convinced that ram is enough of a power draw to be worthwhile
[22:40:23] <alanc> e^ipi: today yes, because we don't have good ways to turn them off to save power, but in the future...
[22:40:29] <Ouroboros> e^ipi: actiuvely reading banks consumes much more pwoer than having them sit idle, evne with refresh
[22:40:38] <e^ipi> still
[22:40:42] <Ouroboros> e^ipi: of course i dont know how many reads zfs does
[22:40:43] <e^ipi> it's less power than spinning up the drive
[22:41:09] <jbit> well data in disk cache is just "left" there
[22:41:15] <Ouroboros> a spinning drive typically consumes like 10W ?
[22:41:20] <jbit> so im tempted to say that emptying the cache might use more
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[22:43:28] <norman> why?
[22:43:52] <e^ipi> it's really all conjecture
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[22:45:51] <jbit> but having the option might be good since then you could actually bench whether it affects your particular work load or not
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[22:47:46] <Ouroboros> well, my c program is able to allocate almost 4 GB in 512 MB chunks
[22:48:05] <e^ipi> yes, any 32 bit program should
[22:48:22] <Ouroboros> but cvs dies at 256 MB for some reason
[22:48:32] <e^ipi> sounds like a cvs problem
[22:48:35] <Ouroboros> although i am not sure what size chunks it requests
[22:48:45] <jbit> my guess is its mmaping some file on a file system that is limiting files to a max of 256mb
[22:48:53] <jbit> or similar
[22:49:06] <Ouroboros> all file systems are zfs or tmpfs
[22:49:25] <Asako> man, the opensolaris install takes too long
[22:49:46] <Ouroboros> i've had this exact same issue with cvs before on netbsd, i cant remember how/if i ever solved it
[22:50:10] <Ouroboros> but i think in that case malloc was behaving a bit differently
[22:51:00] <Ouroboros> i think i will try to check out from another machine, maybe it is a client problem
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[22:53:37] <Asako> can I install osol without all the desktop junk?
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[22:54:01] <aaron50x> hi everyone, i have opensolaris i386 and im having a problem with my mouse pad... sometimes when the pc boots, it goes crazy, and some others works just fine? can anyone help me about this?
[22:54:20] <codestr0m> Asako: you can in sxce I think and also after you install and pfexec pkg uninstall slim_install ; removing other things should be easier
[22:54:36] <xRaich[o]2x1> aaron50x: sounds familiar
[22:54:57] <xRaich[o]2x1> had that once, but it went away after upgrading.
[22:55:03] <xRaich[o]2x1> what version are you running?
[22:55:11] <aaron50x> 2008.05 snv_100
[22:55:25] <Asako> I found a command to remove gnome but it seems to remove a lot of needed things
[22:55:26] <Ouroboros> gawd damnit, i think it is a client side problem.... if so, sorry to waste your time
[22:55:30] <xRaich[o]2x1> 101 is out. maybe give it a try?
[22:55:36] <aaron50x> and additionally, i have to inactive it first and then activate it again
[22:55:44] <xRaich[o]2x1> hrm
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[22:55:50] <aaron50x> otherwise it doesnt work at all
[22:55:54] <xRaich[o]2x1> aaron50x: you should submit a bugreport
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[22:56:37] <mshadle> i need to do a fresh install i think, my zfs data pool wont be affected right
[22:56:51] <aaron50x> xRaich[o]2x1: yeah, and perhaps try Solaris 10 instead... don't you think?
[22:57:13] <xRaich[o]2x1> aaron50x: dunno. i'm running opensolaris 2008.11 rc1 here
[22:58:21] <xRaich[o]2x1> aaron50x: but submitting a bugreport when having problems like that is _always_ a godd idea
[22:58:53] <CIA-59> Donghai Qiao <Donghai.Qiao at Sun dot COM>: 1246893 mmap and write to the same file deadlocks.
[22:58:53] <CIA-59> William Kucharski <William.Kucharski at Sun dot COM>: 6769361 GNU GRUB 0.97 source code contains an incorrect initializer in stage2/fsys_xfs.c, 6769362 New GRUB logo file stage2/logo.xbm missing from SUNWgrubS source package, 6769363 OpenSolaris license-list file must be updated to reflect new GRUB source code path
[22:58:55] <CIA-59> Tony Nguyen <Ton.Nguyen at Sun dot COM>: 6764766 Array overrun in libsecdb
[22:59:44] <aaron50x> xRaich[o]2x1: ok man, thank you very much... im reporting that bug right away :)
[23:00:14] <xRaich[o]2x1> aaron50x: just be sure to append stuff live scanpci -v output and maybe prtconf -v
[23:00:37] <aaron50x> ok
[23:01:07] <xRaich[o]2x1> aaron50x: for opensolaris problems go to defect.opensolaris.org
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[23:01:17] <aaron50x> ok, thanks
[23:01:23] <xRaich[o]2x1> aaron50x: no problem :)
[23:01:42] <e^ipi> where they will be promptly ignored
[23:01:56] <e^ipi> ;)
[23:02:05] <xRaich[o]2x1> no really
[23:02:08] <xRaich[o]2x1> not
[23:02:27] <Ouroboros> they will be ignored, but not promptly?
[23:02:56] <e^ipi> d.o.o is only followed by the pkg(5) and installer guys
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[23:04:13] <gobba> hi
[23:04:24] <gobba> how do i list the names of my disks in my system?
[23:04:42] <xRaich[o]2x1> format
[23:04:54] <gobba> thnx
[23:04:58] <xRaich[o]2x1> np
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[23:07:39] <Asako> dang it
[23:07:51] <palowoda> Wow that 1246893 bug was submitted in 1996.
[23:07:54] <Asako> I just finished a new install and grub complains about having no such file system
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[23:08:35] <xRaich[o]2x1> Aria: fresh opensolaris 101a install?
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[23:08:57] <Asako> it's 100a, just installed on top of my old sol 10 disks
[23:09:00] <Aria> Pardon?
[23:09:03] <xRaich[o]2x1> Asako: ^
[23:09:11] <Asako> just wasted an hour
[23:09:15] <xRaich[o]2x1> Aria: sorry tab went wrong ;)
[23:10:09] <Asako> there should be a bare minimum install, just like CentOS
[23:10:12] <Gman> Asako: known bug, unfortunately - boot up the LiveCD, and import your zfs pool, then reboot
[23:10:15] <Gman> and it *should* fix it
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[23:10:32] <Asako> thanks
[23:10:39] <Asako> I just put new disks in
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[23:10:57] <Gman> Asako: /schemas/apps/panel/general/applet_id_list_jds
[23:11:01] <Gman> oops, wrong paste
[23:11:15] <Gman> http://defect.opensolaris.org/bz/show_bug.cgi?id=4772
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[23:12:38] <Asako> so how long until solaris 11, hehe
[23:13:21] <palowoda> April 4th 1012.
[23:13:27] <throwt> 1012?
[23:13:30] <palowoda> 2012
[23:13:43] <palowoda> sorry.
[23:13:48] <Asako> there's actually a date?
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[23:13:56] <palowoda> Sure why not?
[23:14:19] <throwt> I believe that's the end of the world
[23:14:32] <Asako> I'm just used to undefined releases
[23:14:57] <palowoda> That means at least the devil or god get's to use Solaris 11.
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[23:15:05] <e^ipi> december 21st, 2012
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[23:15:20] <e^ipi> the mayan calendar ticks to 0 and solaris 11 is released
[23:15:43] <Gman> Asako: no official date, just a bunch of talk right now
[23:15:54] <Asako> cool
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[23:22:36] <Asako> how come the core install of sol 10 doesn't include ssh?
[23:23:54] <Gman> s10 doesn't do a lot...
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[23:24:31] <throwt> the core install...  is core
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[23:24:33] <throwt> hardcore
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[23:26:15] <palowoda> Asako: If your so worried about space go use MilaX brand opensolaris.  http://www.milax.org/
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[23:28:10] <Asako> space isn't the issue, it's just installing stuff you don't need
[23:28:45] <palowoda> Than build a distribution of what you don't need.
[23:28:51] <Asako> you do a minimum centos install, it's basically just ssh with a few other things
[23:29:08] <Asako> hmm, that might be interesting
[23:29:22] <jbk> oh gnu autoconf, how i hate thee
[23:29:25] <e^ipi> Asako, why bother? install full+oem and just turn off services you don't need
[23:29:42] <Asako> e^ipi, I did that
[23:29:48] <Asako> but do I really need firefox on my cluster?
[23:30:01] <e^ipi> does it really hurt?
[23:30:11] <Asako> guess not
[23:30:14] <szt> given that cluster uses a webgui?
[23:30:30] <jbk> i don't suppose someone has a build of one of the samba4 snapshots compiled on sparc? :)
[23:30:41] <jbk> (I need winexe, not samba itself)
[23:31:04] <Asako> java desktop is cool I guess
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[23:37:26] <hollenjf> is star office freeware?
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[23:38:51] <e^ipi> it is included for free with SXCE and solaris 10
[23:39:18] <alanc> hollenjf: no, openoffice.org is the open source version, StarOffice is commercial, though available for $0 for Windows from Google Pack or $0 for Solaris in Solaris 10 and Solaris Express
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[23:40:06] <palowoda> And if you hold a sign "Will work for StarOffice" on any freeway on ramp you can get it free also.  Don't know if that qualifies as freeware. :)
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[23:41:07] <palowoda> Do you actually have to pay for support these days?
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[23:42:02] <alanc> full support yes - go to forums/irc/etc. and ask/hope for an answer is still free
[23:42:20] <palowoda> Alan just kidding.
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[23:43:04] <palowoda> But a serious question is the types of fonts different in openoffice vs staroffice?
[23:43:27] <alanc> see, I could tell the "Solaris 11 on April 12, 2012" was just kidding, but that one went over my head
[23:43:53] <alanc> I think staroffice still includes more fonts than openoffice, since it has some commercially licensed third party fonts
[23:44:12] <e^ipi> isn't that about the only difference ?
[23:44:20] <hollenjf> is 2008.11 stable?
[23:44:24] <palowoda> One of these days Sun would make it easier just to buy fonts and codecs direct.
[23:44:29] <e^ipi> hollenjf, define "stable"
[23:44:34] <alanc> thought there was also some 3rd party db engine in staroffice too
[23:44:47] <e^ipi> it's a beta of a development release
[23:45:07] <hollenjf> will it crash on me via normal usage?
[23:45:14] <e^ipi> likely not
[23:45:15] <hollenjf> and is its OS completed>?
[23:45:29] <e^ipi> it is an OS
[23:45:31] <palowoda> The third party db doesn't make sence with staroffice but what the heck.
[23:45:35] <e^ipi> so i'm not sure how to parse that question
[23:47:12] <Auralis_> no OS is complete, it all depends on what you requiere of your Os
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[23:47:17] <hollenjf> umm.. does it function like 2008.5?
[23:47:31] <Auralis_> pretty much so, just better
[23:47:38] <e^ipi> yes, with some differences that are ostensibly better
[23:47:50] <hollenjf> such as?
[23:48:29] <alanc> (btw, not only does nv_102 bring new versions of Arial, Courier, etc. fonts, it also adds in newly licensed versions of the MS Web Fonts - Verdana, Georgia, etc. - unfortunately I think SXCE only, not Indiana)
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[23:49:44] <e^ipi> hollenjf, i dunno, a bunch
[23:49:45] <e^ipi> try it
[23:49:47] <palowoda> Now that is good news I miss the Arial font.
[23:51:49] <alanc> and now you can change your terminal font to "Comic Sans" and use it to torture others who try to use your computer
[23:52:35] <palowoda> And no it's not unfortunate.  I can get my little freeway sign and get SXCE or Indiana for free so it doesn't make a difference.
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[23:53:27] <e^ipi> or use openoffice and just don't worry about the fonts
[23:53:49] <e^ipi> or use LaTeX like a real man
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[23:54:08] <pumpkin_> mmm LaTeX
[23:54:31] <palowoda> e^ipi: You write a book, I just need to send a memo to my cat.
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[23:58:51] <CIA-59> Peter Dunlap <Peter.Dunlap at Sun dot COM>: 6752414 After execution of whole test suite, itadm can change the defaults auth-method to anything, 6741677 Targets remaing visible on iSNS server after iSNS client is disabled, 6764776 osn panics, possible memory corruption, 6764100 libiscsit and iscsit_common.h should be restructured
[23:58:51] <CIA-59> David Major <David.Major at Sun dot COM>: 6726606 Unable to mount disk volume that was created on opposite platform, 6746877 RFE: Support new disk archiving library, drive and volume configuration, 6612080 dda performance





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