[00:01:27] <Asako> looks like using a zvol worked
[00:01:52] <Asako> any way, I'm out of here
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[00:08:17] <swankier> after I've entered a bug, how do I go back in and find it?
[00:08:41] <_mary_kate_> first,  you wait for someone to actually enter the bug
[00:08:52] <_mary_kate_> then you wait until the next resync of bugs.o.o from the real bug database
[00:08:56] <_mary_kate_> then you hope the bug is visible
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[00:09:06] <swankier> wow.
[00:09:12] <swankier> that's.
[00:09:17] <swankier> what's the word?  unique?
[00:09:20] <_mary_kate_> retarded
[00:09:26] <_mary_kate_> especially after 3 years
[00:09:46] <swankier> why was it designed the way it is?
[00:09:48] <_mary_kate_> there's a new bug database at defect.opensolaris.org but very few projects are using it yet
[00:09:59] <_mary_kate_> swankier: because sun's bug database is very large and contains a lot of private information
[00:10:06] <swankier> ahh
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[00:10:12] <_mary_kate_> it would take a long time to audit all of that and make the public information available
[00:10:16] <swankier> so this is a way to protect information from getting out into the public
[00:10:28] <_mary_kate_> (also, it's commercial software that requires a desktop client to use)
[00:10:32] <swankier> how very "open source"
[00:10:37] <swankier> :(
[00:10:53] <e^ipi> swankier: canonical doesn't give out customer info either
[00:10:55] <swankier> should I be putting bugs in bugs. or defects. ?
[00:10:56] <_mary_kate_> swankier: if you opened a support case and gave them private information about your business, would you be happy if they released that information to the world?
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[00:11:29] <swankier> I don't see how the bug databases have to be one and the same
[00:11:43] <_mary_kate_> swankier: because they have been for 25 years, you can't just snap you fingers and change it
[00:11:53] <_mary_kate_> the problem isn't how it was done originally, the problem is that it's still done that way after 3 years
[00:11:54] * swankier snaps
[00:11:55] <swankier> damnit.
[00:12:17] <swankier> it feels very frustrating to me...
[00:12:20] <swankier> as a paying client.
[00:12:35] <_mary_kate_> if you pay sun, you should report bugs by phoning support
[00:12:39] <_mary_kate_> then you can access them at sunsolve (not bugs.o.o)
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[00:12:46] <swankier> well...
[00:12:59] <swankier> have you ever tried explaining a technical problem over the phone
[00:13:00] <swankier> the last time I tried took over an hour
[00:13:09] <swankier> ... and I don't stutter.
[00:13:12] <_mary_kate_> i usually open the case by phone and describe the problem by email
[00:13:37] <swankier> all I want is to be able to assign a listening address to iscsitgtd :(
[00:13:52] <h3sp4wn> Would they accept bugs in SXCE by phone ?
[00:14:07] <_mary_kate_> if this is for S10, you _need_ to call sun - so they see there's customer demand to backport the change
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[00:25:16] <swankier> well, I'll enter a second one... and cross my fingers.
[00:25:46] <james1> does solaros powerfull then linux ?
[00:25:51] <james1> solaris*
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[00:26:22] <e^ipi> depends on the workload i guess
[00:26:25] <james1> than*
[00:26:30] <e^ipi> if you have a specific application, benchmark it on both
[00:26:55] <tsoome> benchmarks are only half about the whole story
[00:27:10] <james1> e^ipi: yes yes now i'm run solaris in personal computer and those're same
[00:27:40] <james1> e^ipi: but please where can i find te diferent , give me exemple
[00:28:02] <tsoome> i had to deal with linux for a week and tbh, i dont wanna see it anytime soon
[00:28:09] <e^ipi> james1, generally speaking as far as performance goes, linux is faster on single-core machines, solaris is faster on multi-core machines
[00:28:11] <h3sp4wn> swankier: The best way to get hotfixes (At least when I was admining Solaris boxes day to day) was get a Sun Engineer onsite (Had 4 hour guaranteed response) and get them to provide exactly the right crash dumps. (The speed of response usually depended on severity but it was usually within a week) No idea what its like now or how much that cost
[00:28:25] <e^ipi> since you can't buy single core machines anymore... well, draw your own conclusions
[00:29:03] <swankier> e^ipi: I'm not convinced you are not quoting stats from many years ago.
[00:29:15] <swankier> re: linux.
[00:29:29] <e^ipi> define "many years ago"
[00:29:37] <swankier> kernel 2.4
[00:29:53] <e^ipi> then no, i'm not remembering benchmarks from stuff that old
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[00:30:10] <swankier> but specifically, any kernel before the bkl removal or the new(est) cpu scheduler
[00:30:20] <e^ipi> besides, back then linux even sucked on single core machines
[00:30:25] <swankier> ;)
[00:31:14] <victori_> swankier: thanks for the find earlier
[00:31:18] <victori_> though it did not solve my issues
[00:31:25] <james1> e^ipi: do you mean cpu
[00:31:28] <victori_> solaris stability--  ;-(
[00:31:29] <h3sp4wn> Solaris has had FHS since Solaris 9 has it not ? The linux scheduler is still not completely fair which defeats the point
[00:31:41] <swankier> victori_: well, I apologies
[00:31:55] <e^ipi> james1, yes
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[00:32:16] <victori_> swankier: at least with beadm it was simple to revert, hopefully the system won't kernel panic too often
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[00:32:39] <e^ipi> victori_, in fairness, you are running unstable bleeding edge code
[00:32:44] <e^ipi> file a bug
[00:32:53] <h3sp4wn> Linux has better ACPI and supports HPET and has slightly more complete wireless support - thats all I can think of
[00:32:54] <tsoome> well, few bits from my personal experience: buggy apps may not crash on linux. its unable to diagnose and inform about serious hw issues  (like broken hdd). dmesg data is absolutely useless (loads of bits and no timestamps)
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[00:33:31] <victori_> e^ipi: ya I understand.
[00:33:48] <tsoome> you are supposed to know exactly what modules u need, there is still no decent dynamic module loader
[00:34:00] <james1> e^ipi: and about Mac isit better than linux too ??
[00:34:27] <tsoome> for kernel that is
[00:35:20] <victori_> james1: there is no better or worse, they are all about the same, each having its own problems and unique features. Just pick the OS that sucks the least for you.\
[00:35:56] <e^ipi> james1, as a desktop, macs are fabulous. put any sort of load on them like you would a server, they're terrible
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[00:36:19] <Auralis_> they are only good as desktops if you like what apple gives you
[00:36:27] <Auralis_> god forbidd you have a different oppinion
[00:36:58] <james1> e^ipi: than we can't run server with MAC OS
[00:37:03] <h3sp4wn> gnome has that same problem really (But apple at least impliments it better)
[00:37:11] <tsoome> well, its pretty decent one and even if you dont like the look, its still pretty well integrated
[00:37:33] <Auralis_> yeah, gnome suffers from the same disease
[00:37:36] <e^ipi> james1, no, likely not
[00:41:51] <james1> i need to learn a lot
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[00:44:47] <e^ipi> as far as i can tell people use OSX "server" for little workgroup servers ( 5, 10 people connecting to it ) for things like iCal
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[00:47:04] <james1> e^ipi: yeah that good , but i never touch Mac os only i see it from far heheh
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[00:47:17] <e^ipi> i like it *shrug*
[00:47:28] <e^ipi> my laptop's a mac
[00:47:30] <james1> only linux opensolaris and now sxce
[00:48:27] <james1> e^ipi: you have macbook then
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[00:48:40] <e^ipi> yeah
[00:49:20] <james1> james1: good , do you use shell in macbook r you don't need it
[00:49:26] <james1> or*
[00:49:35] <e^ipi> you don't /need/ it
[00:49:42] <e^ipi> but i use the terminal constantly
[00:50:07] <tsoome> terminal + X11:)
[00:50:16] <e^ipi> i don't actually use X11 all that often
[00:50:23] <e^ipi> only for X forwarding from other machines
[00:50:35] <tsoome> yep, same:)
[00:50:59] <e^ipi> Xquartz is slow, ugly, and annoying enough that i try to avoid it whenever I can
[00:51:05] <james1> e^ipi: do you link like web
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[00:51:13] <e^ipi> pardon?
[00:51:36] <james1> e^ipi: i mean links*
[00:52:02] <e^ipi> not sure I follow
[00:52:20] <h3sp4wn> double click to select or single click to select
[00:52:33] <e^ipi> oh, okay
[00:52:43] <e^ipi> double click
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[00:52:54] <e^ipi> like windows, not like the web
[00:53:31] <james1> e^ipi: because you use only mode console
[00:53:39] <e^ipi> not only
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[00:53:43] <e^ipi> but I use it a lot
[00:54:30] <james1> thats' good
[00:54:51] <james1> i go now to do some personel work
[00:54:55] <james1> thank you time
[00:55:03] <james1> e^ipi: thank you bye
[00:55:07] <e^ipi> np
[00:55:08] <e^ipi> take care
[00:55:11] <james1> h3sp4wn: thank you  and bye
[00:55:14] <h3sp4wn> I couldn't use anything without focus-follows-mouse anymore
[00:55:39] <e^ipi> i can't stand that mode
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[00:55:58] <e^ipi> to each their own but i always end up fiddling with my mouse whle doing other stuff
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[00:56:35] <tsoome> u cant use follw mouse if you have loads of windows to work with
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[00:58:12] <dep> Interesting assertion.
[00:58:13] <h3sp4wn> alt tab to raise if its behind everything
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[00:58:33] <tsoome> no, thats not a point
[00:58:50] <h3sp4wn> what I like is windows can overlap and not have focus
[00:59:06] <CIA-59> Philip Kirk <Phil.Kirk at Sun dot COM>: 4085089 add a feature to enable 'snooping' of the loopback traffic (fix unref)
[00:59:07] <CIA-59> John Sonnenschein <John.Sonnenschein at Sun dot COM>: 6750617 un-MacGyver BugDB lookups, 6750611 DbLookups.ARC & Comments should coalesce ARC queries, 6759911 hg pbchk could report more useful URL errors
[00:59:13] <tsoome> u move the mouse (by mistake) and will end up typing stuff in wrong window;)
[00:59:21] <e^ipi> huh, CIA caught that faster than my email
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[00:59:46] <dep> Given that my mouse is about a foot away from the home row, accidentally moving the mouse is seldom a problem.
[01:00:08] <e^ipi> i'm fidgety
[01:00:21] <dep> A much bigger problem is annoying applications that take focus when you're typing in other windows.
[01:00:22] <e^ipi> twiddling the mouse around out of idleness is just a tick i've got
[01:00:23] <h3sp4wn> happens ocassionally (I use sloppy focus not strictly follows mouse)
[01:00:29] <e^ipi> i also peel the labels off my beer bottles
[01:00:57] <dep> I can understand fidgeting with your mouse :)
[01:01:14] <Doc> isnt that a sign of sexual frustration?
[01:01:47] <e^ipi> no, you're  thinking of fidgeting with something else
[01:02:05] <h3sp4wn> All in all its far from perfect but its better for me than click to focus (If auto raise is on though I cannot use it)
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[01:02:40] <dep> But do you do it with your feet?  I don't see how fidgiting with your mouse can affect the window you're typing in since actual typing (and not just hitting a key or two) and using the mouse are generally exclusive (both require the use of your mouse hand).
[01:08:36] <h3sp4wn> tsoome: I would be using screen anyway if I was expecting to have loads of windows (If I didn't expect it don't mind the hassle really)
[01:09:16] <tsoome> terminal windows are just one kind (i need)
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[01:09:54] <tsoome> also mail, loads of web and so on depending on task on hand ofc
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[01:23:51] <tCzern> hellllo :-)
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[01:24:46] <_mary_kate_> the new live upgrade in U6 doesn't seem to create a compare database when using ZFS... how does it sync files between BEs?
[01:24:50] <tCzern> I am going to buy some hardware. question: can Mac OSX read a opensolaris formatted hard disk, so that I can use the same hard disk for both systems ?
[01:25:26] <tCzern> via mobile tray and such ...
[01:25:47] <e^ipi> OSX can ///read/// a zfs disk, yes
[01:25:55] <e^ipi> it cannot write
[01:26:05] <e^ipi> and this only applies to OSX 10.5
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[01:28:46] <tCzern> ok, hhmm, two partitions then. I am thinking of using the disk on the one hand as carrier for  Solaris  and on the other hand as storage device for OSX. Would need two partitions then, I guess ..
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[01:29:12] <tCzern> can Solaris be installed on an OSX formated disk?
[01:29:23] <e^ipi> no
[01:29:37] <tCzern> ok
[01:29:40] <tCzern> thanks!!
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[01:30:51] <e^ipi> the only filesystem that can be reliably shared between OS's is fat32
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[01:31:09] <tCzern> I noticed this with Flash Drives, yes.
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[01:31:23] <tCzern> isn't that an old dos format?
[01:31:29] <e^ipi> yeah, you can write a fat32 driver in a couple dozen lines
[01:31:35] <e^ipi> so people still use it for things
[01:32:21] <e^ipi> it's slow, it's unreliable, but it's damned easy to write and takes almost no CPU power
[01:32:24] <tCzern> too bad that the unix file system isn't standardized
[01:32:33] <e^ipi> meh
[01:32:41] <tCzern> linux has two options, mac has several formats ..
[01:32:48] <e^ipi> i'm of the "one machine, one OS" school
[01:32:59] <e^ipi> so as long as you can speak NFS, you've got a shared filesystem
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[01:33:13] <tCzern> NFS ?
[01:33:18] <tCzern> that;s windows
[01:33:20] <e^ipi> network filesystem
[01:33:22] <e^ipi> no, it's not windows
[01:33:26] <tCzern> oh
[01:33:32] <_mary_kate_> Windows' network filesystem is CIFS (although it supports NFS too)
[01:33:35] <victori_> the 2008.11 release will be based on what? snv_101?
[01:34:07] <e^ipi> yes
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[01:36:36] <abisen> how do i install a tar.gz package for Solaris in OpenSolaris ? I just downloaded VirtualBox and would like to install it on my OpenSolaris ! Should i just untar it ?
[01:36:55] <victori_> yep
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[01:38:03] <abisen> thanks
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[01:41:04] <victori_> anyone know if you can copy clone a zfs dataset's sub directory into its own dataset? or you need to manually create a new dataset and use cp -rfp to copy?
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[01:42:02] <Ouroboro> i have made some progress on my DHCP issue: it seems that if i ping the dhcp server first, then "ifconfig nge0 dhcp extend" works, otherwise it does not
[01:42:52] <Ouroboro> somehow if i do not ping it, then there is an ARP request for the DHCP server, which makes no sense
[01:43:05] <Ouroboro> but the ping itself does not alter the arp table...
[01:43:16] <h3sp4wn> Ouroboro: Just add it as a static arp
[01:43:29] <Ouroboro> h3sp4wn: its not on the same subnet, so there should be no ARP entry
[01:43:44] <Ouroboro> i am reasonably sure that this is a bug, but at least i have a workaround
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[01:45:50] <abisen> can VirtualBox support x86_64 linux ?
[01:46:12] <abisen> the website shows that it can but when i try to install 64Bit linux it refuses to install ?
[01:46:14] <e^ipi> should
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[01:47:39] <h3sp4wn> Ouroboro: Thats not true
[01:47:51] <e^ipi> here's a fun question that can save a bundle of time... is the host system 64 bit?
[01:48:05] <abisen> e^ipi, does not say's This kernel requires an x96-64 CPU, but only detectyed an i686 CPU
[01:48:22] <abisen> bash-3.2$ isainfo -b
[01:48:23] <abisen> 64
[01:48:33] <abisen> bash-3.2$ isainfo
[01:48:34] <abisen> amd64 i386
[01:48:57] <Ouroboro> h3sp4wn: whats not true
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[01:49:22] <abisen> this is what I installed: VirtualBox-2.0.4-38406-SunOS_amd64.tar.gz
[01:49:54] <abisen> and my uname string says the following: bash-3.2$ uname -a
[01:49:54] <abisen> SunOS ghost 5.11 snv_100 i86pc i386 i86pc Solaris
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[01:50:23] <abisen> now i am downloading a 32-bit iso and will see if that works..
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[01:52:29] <Ouroboro> how do you submit a bug report?
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[01:53:01] <h3sp4wn> Ouroboro: afaik if you are not using static arp you would have to use bootp or something else to get the macaddress
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[01:54:04] <Ouroboro> h3sp4wn: normally the DHCP server resides on the local subnet, so an ARP request is appropriate, but in my case, the DHCP server is routed through the gateway, so an ARP request makes no sense--it is not even possible to add a static entry because it does not match the local subnet
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[01:54:46] <bda> "dchp relay" "dhcp forward"
[01:54:56] <Ouroboro> yes, thank you
[01:55:21] <RavenSlay3r> If i'm going back to the books to re-learn the shell which one or two should a pay most attention to?
[01:55:40] <Ouroboro> so there appears to be a bug somewhere that specifically for DHCP renews fails to check the address against the subnet... why pinging fixes it i have no idea
[01:55:50] <h3sp4wn> Ouroboro: Ok whenever I have done that I have used proxy arp
[01:56:26] <Ouroboro> h3sp4wn: interesting, that would perhaps make it work, but i do not control the gateway so I cannot do this
[01:56:44] <Bartman007> abisen: AFAIK vbox doesn't support 64-bit guests
[01:56:48] <RavenSlay3r> Which shells, that is
[01:57:04] <e^ipi> huh
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[01:57:07] <e^ipi> i did not know that
[01:57:09] <e^ipi> Bartman007++
[01:57:28] <abisen> Bartman007, thanks for the info...
[01:57:53] <Ouroboro> anyway, it is a bug to issue an ARP request for an address that is not on the local network
[01:58:28] <abisen> Bartman007, another question does VBox utilizes the capabilities of a processor if it supports VT or not ?
[01:58:30] <Bartman007> abisen: unless something has changed recently, I thought vbox doesn't support x86_64 guests or PAE
[01:58:57] <CIA-59> Mark Powers <Mark.Powers at Sun dot COM>: 6767649 vmem_hash_delete: bad free issue
[01:58:58] <Bartman007> abisen: it can, I don't know if it is faster though
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[01:59:14] <abisen> Bartman007, thanks.. that helps..
[01:59:41] <h3sp4wn> It is for certain OS's (only OS/2 I have seen mentioned specifically) is the usb passthrough working on Solaris yet
[02:00:20] <e^ipi> virtual machines are too picky
[02:00:34] <e^ipi> unixware, nextstep... nothing esoteric installs in them
[02:01:46] <h3sp4wn> Extended features has enable pae/nx (not tried it though) - OpenServer when I was using it was much worse than Unixware
[02:01:55] <Bartman007> e^ipi: I was to be able to look at the failed virtual hardware and see when it has a vritual bad capacitor
[02:01:59] <Bartman007> s/was/want/
[02:02:07] <e^ipi> heh
[02:02:12] <Ouroboro> so can i/should i submite a bug report for this DHCP issue?
[02:02:49] <abisen> VirtualBox 2.0.0 (released 2008-09-04): Features
[02:02:57] <abisen> 64 bits guest support (64 bits host only)
[02:03:25] <abisen> it's on their changelog
[02:03:30] <abisen> http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Changelog
[02:04:48] <Bartman007> ah, I haven't used anything newer than 1.6, and couldn't find anything that indicated it had changed
[02:05:25] <abisen> Bartman007, i am asking in #vbox ....
[02:05:29] <_mary_kate_> e^ipi: nextstep and unixware work in vmware
[02:05:48] <e^ipi> i could never get them to work in fusion
[02:06:03] <jbit> mmm... nextstep ;P
[02:06:33] <jbit> my vintage parisc workstations run nextstep, fun os
[02:07:49] <h3sp4wn> plan9 is a pain to install in anything other than qemu but once its installed its not too bad to get it on xen (virtualbox was no chance)
[02:08:02] <Bartman007> e^ipi: 64-bit guests work well for me in fusion, I haven't tried recent OS kernels but older ones hung for a while on boot. after a few minutes of a pegged CPU they would boot and work great.
[02:08:22] <Bartman007> (this was circa b72-b85)
[02:08:28] <e^ipi> yeah, i never had a problem with fusion and solaris
[02:08:45] <Bartman007> I think it was fixed, but I've never tried to confirm
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[02:22:31] <victori_> anyone know what LSO stands for?
[02:22:48] <victori_> http://bugs.opensolaris.org/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6727837  disabling lso fixes e1000g issues, but what is LSO?
[02:26:40] <Ouroboro> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Large_segment_offload ?
[02:28:50] <ottom> yes, Large Segment Offload
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[02:31:26] <galen> I installed opensolaris 2008-05 a few days ago. Everything seemed working fine. I left it idle, the screensaver tried to activate and failed (I assume), and it spewed errors about GDI... I reset the machine after a while, as i could not get out of the screensaver. Now it boots, but to a command line prompt only. Suggestions to get it unstuck?
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[02:31:35] <galen> otherwise, i guess i could reinstall, but that seems stupid...
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[02:32:28] <galen> it seems like past experiences with solaris have shown a tendency for it to freak out following a crash or unclean reboot, and not want to start up fully, usually due to something stupid and minor
[02:32:58] <galen> it would be useful to understand precisely what is happening, as solaris sometimes seems like something of a black box as compared to the other unix-like operating systems I use
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[02:33:47] <montcalm> Genunix.org says that osol-0811 is released, but the file urls don't seem to work; and they look like release candidates.  Was that a false start?
[02:33:51] <Ouro> victori_: did you get that?
[02:33:54] <victori_> yes
[02:33:55] <victori_> thank you
[02:34:01] <Ouro> ok, my network went to shit
[02:34:03] <galen> in this particular case, i get endless errors about various things that cannot be properly started up
[02:34:33] <h3sp4wn> galen: Can you even login ?
[02:34:35] <dep> The most common reason for problems after an unclean reboot was UFS not being unmounted, requiring at least an fsck, if not repairs to files that were corrupted.  Since OpenSolaris doesn't use UFS, that large class of problems shouldn't ever happen again.
[02:34:41] <galen> h3sp4wn: yes, but no GUI
[02:34:56] <galen> OpenSolaris 2008-05 uses what FS?
[02:35:00] <dep> ZFS
[02:35:06] <_mary_kate_> hmm, since UFS logging, i've not had a system fail to come up because of fsck... the most common problem i've seen in 10+ is the boot archive being out of date
[02:35:10] <galen> This is my first round with it, previously I was using SXCE
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[02:35:22] <Ouro> SXCE supports ZFS root as well
[02:35:27] <_mary_kate_> if you change any of the files in the boot archive without updating it manually, the system won't come up automatically after an unclean shutdown
[02:35:29] <Ouro> although it is perhaps not defualt in the installer
[02:35:34] <h3sp4wn> I have had more unexplainable problems with 2008.05 than any other Solaris
[02:35:38] <galen> Ouro: when i first started, that was experimental at best
[02:35:47] <Ouro> galen: it works now :)
[02:35:54] <_mary_kate_> galen: all of opensolaris is experimental
[02:36:02] <galen> well, i can't figure why i'd reboot and everything would just fail... especially with zfs
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[02:36:18] <Ouro> on nevada or indiana?
[02:36:28] <galen> 2008-05
[02:36:44] <Ouro> no idea, i cant even boot that live cd without it kernel panicking
[02:36:44] <dep> _mary_kate_ is right, the boot archive has introduced another set of failures
[02:36:53] <galen> i'm dying for 2008-11 :)
[02:37:09] <montcalm> Supposedly it's out
[02:37:29] <galen> i love ZFS, but all I use solaris for is a big fat fileserver. and it seems to suffer from an endless string of odd configurational issues... the OS, not the FS
[02:37:40] <galen> it's like the core tech is great, but something always goes amiss with configuration
[02:37:43] <dep> Any messages in particualr that stand out?  Usually a boot archive problem, though confusing, is fairly succinctly messaged.
[02:37:57] <galen> i get an endless string of things that fail to start
[02:38:31] <dep> When you log in (in text mode), 'svcs -x' may give you the root problem (though it also might give you a lot of output if something is horribly wrong)
[02:38:32] <h3sp4wn> galen: Any boot problems with SXCE I have had have been my own fault
[02:38:33] <alanc> montcalm: not yet - the first release candidate for 2008.11 came out today - it's being pushed across the firewall now, watch for announcement on opensolaris-announce soon
[02:39:02] <Ouro> dep: it is messages from sfm?
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[02:39:34] <galen> h3sp4wn: i get an endless sequence of things that did not start when i type svcs -x
[02:39:39] <montcalm> Excellent.  I'm excited about testing the accessibility features; hopefully the orca screen-reader will be working well enough to install the os.
[02:39:52] <galen> smserver, hal, gdm, shall i go on?
[02:40:04] <dustman> osol snv_100 works well for me
[02:40:22] <galen> i do very much like the packaging of opensolaris
[02:40:35] <dustman> but svn_97 and sxce svn_99 had some strange problems
[02:40:36] <galen> versus prior experiences with SXCE
[02:40:44] <Ouro> dustman: congrats, thats kinda a rare release, no?
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[02:40:53] <Ouro> yeah 99 had some problems
[02:40:58] <galen> is the 2008-11 RC worth trying?
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[02:41:30] <dustman> no docs... how to send someone rtfm if no man is there?
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[02:41:55] <alanc> send them an rtf-http://docs.sun.com/ instead
[02:42:04] <e^ipi> dustman, /topic
[02:42:06] <dep> galen: Usually svcs -x tries to give you the cause of a failure, though with a lot of failures that could be lost in it's output.  What does 'svcs | grep maintenance' say?
[02:42:09] <e^ipi> the S10SAG is up there
[02:42:13] <dep> *its
[02:42:52] <dustman> e^ipi: they're in svn_100
[02:42:55] <jbk> evening
[02:43:18] <galen> state: maintenance since .... [time] ... repeated several times
[02:43:19] <Ouro> galen: try one service, svcs -xv something, then look at /var/svc/log/something
[02:43:43] <Ouro> probably one of the directories disappeared
[02:43:49] <Ouro> i had something like this when i deleted /root
[02:43:51] <galen> i am smelling it may be faster to reinstall it
[02:43:59] <dustman> I tried solaris 10/08 and couldn't configure screen resolution
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[02:44:06] <dep> Not 'svcs -x | grep', just 'svcs | grep'
[02:44:09] <dustman> it would crash X
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[02:44:25] <Ouro> galen: maybe one of the mounts failed?
[02:44:31] <galen> there's only one hard drive.
[02:44:44] <dustman> and opensolaris, which is considered test os, works fine..
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[02:45:12] <galen> i think i'll just reinstall. maybe i'll be luckier....
[02:45:32] <Ouro> why does a localhost MTA need a working non-local DNS?
[02:45:46] <galen> Ouro: when you find out, let me know
[02:45:56] <galen> I've fought with stupid things like that too many times
[02:46:18] <galen> eventually, i do want to figure out how to deal with these weird issues, but i guess for now i'll just take the easy route....
[02:46:32] <Ouro> solution: attach machine to network
[02:46:35] <Ouro> it is annoying though
[02:46:56] <Ouro> in particular it means that if my network is broken, then i cant receive mail from syslog which may be related to why the network is broken
[02:46:58] <galen> It's weird how an enterprise class OS seems to fail miserably on the desktop in some ways
[02:47:10] <galen> Ouro: yes, i know....
[02:47:34] <galen> Is there any way to install only English from the opensolaris live disc?
[02:47:51] <galen> And, should I go with the upcoming 2008-11 RC?
[02:48:00] <Ouro> you should go with SXCE :)
[02:48:07] <dep> The RC is a huge upgrade over the May release
[02:48:21] <dustman> galen: you can easily remove anything you want with IPS
[02:48:53] <galen> Ouro: Does SXCE still use the horrid installer and lack the nicities of opensolaris?
[02:49:02] <dep> My laptop went from barely usable to completely functional.
[02:49:06] <galen> dustman: yes, just trying to avoid wasting time copying files not needed
[02:49:21] <Ouro> galen: i dont know how the installer compares to the indiana one... it seemed fine to me
[02:49:30] <Ouro> (coming from debian installers)
[02:50:00] <galen> Ouro: opensolaris has two textual prompts for language, and boots into a full graphical live OS and full graphical installer
[02:50:19] <dep> galen: I don't think the OpenSolaris installer permits you to change what bits are laid down on the disk
[02:50:22] <Ouro> galen: SXCE has various options for graphical and text installers
[02:50:33] <Ouro> galen: as well as the same language selection
[02:50:36] <galen> the old SXCE installer was debian-like, and worse than debian, it asked stupid questions, like forcing me to give the machine a DNS hostname and manually enter DNS servers (no option to use DHCP-provided DNS)
[02:50:57] <Ouro> galen: yeah, that is crap and is still there... the rest works though
[02:51:09] <galen> i never really found an answer to those questions i liked
[02:51:19] <bda> What, like a hostname and some DNS server?
[02:51:29] <Ouro> just enter the same DNS as the one your DHCP would provide
[02:51:38] <Ouro> it wont matter after you boot into it
[02:51:44] <galen> except for the fact the DHCP server's DNS changes from time to time
[02:51:53] <Ouro> yeah but it is only for the installer
[02:51:58] <galen> hmm
[02:51:59] <Ouro> after that the normal mechanism works
[02:52:08] <galen> does SXCE have a package manager now?
[02:52:14] <Ouro> (i am not even sure that the installer uses that info)
[02:52:44] <e^ipi> galen: yes, and it always has. it doesn't have a network thing though
[02:52:44] <Ouro> nope, just install the full distro, then liveupgrade later
[02:53:12] <galen> hmm.
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[02:53:30] <galen> votes? 2008-11 versus SXCE?
[02:53:49] <dep> What do you want to do with the machine?
[02:54:01] <dep> And what sort of machine is it?
[02:54:10] <Ouro> sarah palin uses 2008-11, do you want to be like her? ;-)
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[02:54:25] <kohju> i hope 2008.11, but i vote sxce, now. :)
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[02:58:13] <galen> sarah palin? hahaha
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[02:58:41] <galen> they say i sound very northern, almost alaska-canada accent, so perhaps i should go with it!
[02:59:17] <galen> in seriousness, the machine is just my ZFS file server for private use. Large disk images and media files only.
[02:59:22] <e^ipi> as a canadian, i resent that
[02:59:28] <e^ipi> the alaska accent is nothing like ours
[02:59:40] <galen> haha
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[03:00:03] <galen> i'm in washington state, so i'm not too far...
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[03:00:29] <galen> it's not what i say, people comment, something about how bag, lag, and some other words come out :)
[03:00:30] <e^ipi> the seattle accent is like the vancouver accent
[03:00:49] <galen> i grew up in SW washington. don't ask me how i picked it up....
[03:01:00] <e^ipi> aside from 'Z' and things like 'sneakers' or whatever, there's not much difference there
[03:01:16] <Ouro> there is no 'z' in 'sneakers'
[03:01:28] <e^ipi> Ouro, no, but sneakers are runners
[03:01:46] <e^ipi> and z is pronounced 'zed' in any right-thinking country, and 'zee' in the US
[03:02:00] <galen> bag tends to sound a little more like "begh" when i say it, among other things
[03:02:13] <Ouro> oh yeah, i cant read :)
[03:02:34] <galen> hmm, perhaps i should work on this accent, it could help me internationally when traveling
[03:02:48] <Ouro> whats the syntax for grouping of commands with shell && and || ?
[03:02:58] <galen> "i'm not american! i'm canadaian! don't take me hostage because you're mad at the US!"
[03:03:34] <Ouro> is it like this: echo a && (echo b || echo c)
[03:09:50] <galen> I'm grabbing 2008-11... it will not take long at 2.4 MB/sec
[03:11:27] <kimc> hey e^ip what country are you from ? :)
[03:11:48] <e^ipi> canada, why?
[03:12:39] <kimc> well I was just wondering where you got the attitude from
[03:12:52] <galen> as nice as it is to have a pretty, almost Ubuntu-like solaris in the form of opensolaris, why is sun doing it?
[03:13:00] <galen> Are they trying to get solaris on the desktop?
[03:13:26] * bda looks at his OpenSolaris workstation.
[03:13:33] <kimc> hey e^ipi: do you have job?
[03:13:41] <e^ipi> yes, i do
[03:13:50] <bda> e^ipi's job is to look pretty.
[03:13:56] <bda> Some days are better than others, honestly.
[03:14:02] <e^ipi> i'm the offical mascot
[03:14:08] <galen> and for those other days, there's always photoshop
[03:14:18] <e^ipi> bda, well, i haven't shaved in a week
[03:14:21] <bda> Nor I.
[03:14:22] <kimc> I was wondering if you had a jog becuase you are always on #opensolaris owning the channel holding court
[03:14:29] <bda> haha.
[03:14:30] <e^ipi> i've got a little bit of the hobo look about me
[03:14:37] <bda> I just look rakish.
[03:14:51] <bda> Y'know. Like a raconteur.
[03:15:06] <bda> Only fuzzier.
[03:15:09] <galen> rakish? that's an unusual term
[03:15:25] <galen> bda: where are you from?
[03:15:44] <bda> It's not particularly unusual.
[03:15:53] <bda> If anyone says A/S/L, I'm syndropping!
[03:17:01] <Ouro> a/s/l? (ip fragments dropped at firewall)
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[03:18:24] <bda> boo.
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[03:20:29] <Ouro> hm
[03:20:42] <_mary_kate_> has anyone had problems with iscsi in S10 U6?
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[03:26:14] <Ouro> later people
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[03:27:08] <galen> 2008-11 is burning...
[03:27:22] <dep> ...on a CD, I hope
[03:27:53] <pumpkin_> is 2008.11 out?
[03:30:09] <alanc> no, only pre-release test builds
[03:30:18] <alanc> real release is a couple weeks away still
[03:30:18] <galen> no, i printed it and threw it into the fire for heat :)
[03:30:21] <galen> yes, on a CD
[03:30:25] <galen> this is the RC
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[03:31:52] * alanc peeks at genunix.org, sees the rc's have made it there now...
[03:33:02] <RavenSlay3r> bash-3.2$ man -k calendar
[03:33:02] <RavenSlay3r> /usr/dt/man/windex: No such file or directory
[03:33:02] <RavenSlay3r> Do i need to rebuild a database or somthing to fix this?
[03:33:08] <_mary_kate_> RavenSlay3r: catman -w
[03:33:15] <alanc> yes, catman -w
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[03:34:01] <RavenSlay3r> thankyou both :)
[03:36:16] <coffman_> hmpf
[03:36:21] <coffman_> ffs
[03:37:01] <alanc> Fast File System? or find first set (ffs(3c)? or just plain cursing?
[03:37:21] <RavenSlay3r> galen: is that openSolaris 2008.11 or Solaris 10 2008.11?
[03:37:32] <coffman_> i need a older version of audiohd
[03:37:35] <coffman_> gar
[03:37:49] <galen> opensolaris 2008-11
[03:38:17] <RavenSlay3r> galen: I went looking for info on that the other day and couldn't find it. They got a relase date set?
[03:38:25] <galen> RC1 is here
[03:38:38] <RavenSlay3r> cool
[03:39:07] <alanc> there is no such thing as Solaris 10 2008.11 - the S10 release was Solaris 10 10/08
[03:39:41] <RavenSlay3r> ok
[03:40:41] <RavenSlay3r> now will 2008.11 be significantly more stable than the latest branch or is there really no difference?
[03:40:51] <RavenSlay3r> er build like 100a
[03:42:31] <alanc> 2008.11 is based on 101a
[03:42:33] <galen> this is snv_101a here
[03:42:41] <galen> i hear an echo :)
[03:42:45] <RavenSlay3r> I see
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[03:43:00] <RavenSlay3r> Well I can't wait to try it out
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[03:47:20] <galen> 2008-11 just goes to the login and stops...?
[03:47:55] <RavenSlay3r> people said UNIX was too complicated so they took the hard stuff out
[03:47:58] <RavenSlay3r> thats whats left
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[03:48:09] <galen> what? a login??
[03:49:49] <RavenSlay3r> guess so
[03:51:00] <galen> yeah, i like this new unix
[03:51:01] <galen> very simple
[03:51:04] <galen> one word
[03:51:10] <galen> nice blinking dot
[03:51:18] <galen> i think steve jobs is going to rip off your idea
[03:51:28] <galen> the next os x will just be an apple. with a spinning thing.
[03:51:29] <RavenSlay3r> but there's no bugs ;)
[03:51:44] <RavenSlay3r> i cleaned the coffee-pot with vinegar today .. ran rinse water several times, but the coffee tastes like french-vanillea-vinegerette ...
[03:52:03] <galen> acetic acid is almost noxious
[03:52:20] <galen> i suggest running some baking soda water through it
[03:52:23] <galen> nice and hot
[03:52:23] <RavenSlay3r> is that why i have  a headache?
[03:52:28] <galen> should clean it up
[03:52:31] <galen> i doubt it...
[03:52:57] <RavenSlay3r> i'll try the baking soda - it could still be cleaner
[03:53:19] <galen> the baking soda water will neutralize the acetic acid anywhere it has contact with it
[03:53:29] <galen> so be sure to get it splashed around as much as possible
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[03:54:20] <RavenSlay3r> ty ty :)
[03:54:26] <galen> then run some plain water through there next
[03:54:50] <galen> you want to make sure there's no traces of sodium acetate left
[03:55:06] <galen> (the result of acetic acid + sodium bicarbonate)
[03:55:17] <RavenSlay3r> ahh i see
[03:55:22] <RavenSlay3r> sounds like a chem-lab
[03:55:26] <galen> also, any residual baking soda would neutralize the acidity in the coffee... non-acidic coffee might be gentle on the stomach, but it's gonna taste weird
[03:55:58] <galen> your body is a huge chemistry experiment :) this is simple by comparison
[03:56:20] <galen> i assume you don't have a filter or anything in the coffee maker?
[03:56:42] <galen> not like a regular coffee filter, but like a water filter
[03:56:51] <RavenSlay3r> I don't think it has one
[03:56:54] <galen> if you do... and you got vinegar/cleaning solution in there, ugh
[03:57:28] <RavenSlay3r> it's not that fancy
[03:57:45] <galen> for future reference, i suggest using bleach if you want to get rid of the ugly brown-black "coffee stains" look
[03:57:56] <galen> if it's on plastic, you may need to use nearly pure bleach and let it soak
[03:58:48] <galen> then you need to rinse, preferably with something mildly acidic, like cream of tartar in water, which will neutralize any traces of the bleach that's left. vinegar sucks because it's so aromatic.
[03:58:57] <RavenSlay3r> i don't care about the outside but the instructions said to clean periodically by running a vinegear solution through it - and the water-resivour was getting a red-tinge so I assumed it was time...
[03:59:52] <galen> if you have nasty water stain going on, i suggest CLR (calcium lime rust remover)... or a strong acid, like 50-90% sulfuric acid, the latter of which is not something i suggest using unless you're properly equipped
[04:00:03] <galen> water stain = white crusty stuff
[04:00:38] <RavenSlay3r> it could be iron - but i think we have some red-alagee in the pipes or water-source
[04:00:41] <galen> no idea why they'd want vinegar to go through a coffee maker. it lingers badly due to it's aromatic properties. it's also a touch volatile, so it evaporates and gets into places where you didn't even put it...
[04:01:04] <coffman_> gdamore: ping
[04:01:08] <galen> if it's iron, CLR or similar is suggested
[04:01:10] <coffman_> i need audiohd-2008-08-25.tar.gz
[04:01:21] <coffman_> some one got it around?
[04:01:44] <RavenSlay3r> really, i'd always heard vinegar, but never actually done it before
[04:01:58] <RavenSlay3r> thanks for the tips galen!
[04:02:16] <coffman_> dunno why there was a need to remove it from the device driver site :(
[04:02:27] <galen> anytime :) consider me your private food chemist :)
[04:02:55] <RavenSlay3r> hehe - then i'm sure i will be pinging you again in the future ;)
[04:03:40] <galen> haha, you may not find me on here a lot, but you're welcome to try
[04:03:56] <galen> you should see how my home cleaning projects go though :)
[04:05:37] <galen> i found using cellulase enzymes on my floor with my scooba particularly enjoyable (and markedly more effective than their commercial cleaning solution)
[04:06:10] <galen> coffman_: Don't they keep some kind of CVS?
[04:06:17] <galen> svn/cvs/git etc
[04:06:36] <e^ipi> RavenSlay3r, run some citric acid through your coffee maker
[04:06:44] <e^ipi> that gets rid of scale and doesn't leave a funky taste to the coffee
[04:08:00] <galen> ehhh, depends a lot on it
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[04:08:09] <galen> the issue he has is iron deposits it sounds like
[04:08:17] <galen> citric acid isn't potent enough to clean that up very well
[04:08:27] <galen> 2008-11 RC just sits here at "login"
[04:08:32] <galen> What's the login?
[04:09:04] <galen> and, why is it not launching a GUI?
[04:09:17] <galen> It asks me about languages, etc. just like 2008-05. But it doesn't get past that...
[04:09:24] <galen> just asks me for a login
[04:09:32] <galen> I'd expect the GUI to auto-launch, but it's not
[04:09:37] <alanc> it should auto-login
[04:09:51] <galen> How long should I wait? I've waited a lot longer than 2008-05
[04:09:57] <alanc> if that fails for some reason, the login name is "jack" and the password is "jack"
[04:10:16] <alanc> if autologin is working, you don't see the login screen - if you see the login screen, it failed
[04:10:34] <galen> hmm
[04:10:47] <galen> well, 2008-05 shows me the login for a moment or two before showing the GUI
[04:10:50] <galen> startx fails
[04:10:51] <galen> hmm
[04:10:54] <RavenSlay3r> e^ipi: thanks i'll remember to try that too
[04:11:00] <alanc> oh, command line login?
[04:11:06] <alanc> I was thinking gui login screen
[04:11:17] <alanc> yes, it should be starting the GUI automatically
[04:11:33] <galen> RavenSlay3r: I doubt citric acid will help your problem, if it's brown, it's either organic staining or iron, either of which a mild acid like citric will tackle.
[04:11:59] <galen> yes, i'm logged into the command line, it is dying and throwing... a lot of errors... when i try and start x
[04:12:23] <galen> it seems to be horking on something vidia related
[04:12:29] <galen> so much for a nice easy install
[04:15:01] <RavenSlay3r> well I think it's organic .. i'll just try all of them .. eventually it will surrender
[04:15:20] <RavenSlay3r> galen: download the latest nVidia drivers?
[04:15:47] <galen> and install them onto the live disc??
[04:16:10] <RavenSlay3r> well are u just running the live CD or did you actually install it?
[04:16:17] <galen> not yet installed
[04:16:23] <RavenSlay3r> dunno then
[04:16:48] <galen> if it's organic, perhaps you should consider not leaving water in your coffee pot to prevent it in the future :) alternatively, i'd suggest a touch of sodium metabisulfate and/or sodium benzoate, depending on your water's pH... no more growth, ever :)
[04:17:25] <galen> even better, if you don't plan on drinking it or you want to kill somebody, just put a 5000 flushes type toilet tablet in there! :P
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[04:17:42] <galen> yeah, it's a bit of an issue. maybe i'll go try SXCE.....
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[04:20:29] <galen> ugh, such a big ISO versus opensolaris
[04:21:50] <alanc> that's what happens when you put all packages in the ISO because you don't have a network package repo, instead of just putting the core in the CD and pulling the rest from the repo as needed
[04:22:18] <galen> any simple ways i could tweak the 2008-11 X config from the command line?
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[04:22:44] <pizdec> :) wouldnt this be resolved in os200811 ?
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[04:23:08] <RavenSlay3r> galen: I use it every day, so it never completly dries - though I don't LEAVE water in it :-P
[04:23:10] <alanc> I think these instructions from last year still work: http://blogs.sun.com/sch/date/20071031
[04:23:29] <RavenSlay3r> the 5000 flush thing would be funny to do tho .. have to do that at an office someday .. when i work in one
[04:24:53] <galen> alanc: working on trying it
[04:25:43] <galen> RavenSlay3r: If it's biological in nature, a simple solution is copper at the waterline, or even the whole inside of the water tank. copper is quite effective at preventing biological growth on it.
[04:25:47] <RavenSlay3r> alanc i thought the IPS was a network package repo ..
[04:26:10] <galen> I'd suggest microban plastic, but I doubt that's really available to you :)
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[04:27:06] <galen> a little copper tape or foil would be easy to use to line, and presto, no more cleaning
[04:27:10] <RavenSlay3r> galen: I rent a condo ... or i would have fixed the real problem some-time ago ..
[04:27:59] <galen> hmmm, this is new, i'm getting mDNS responder notes at boot. Interesting... I didn't even know they used mDNS in OS
[04:28:17] <galen> RavenSlay3r: no matter what you do, leaving water in something most of the time will result in biological and mineralogical issues,
[04:28:27] <alanc> RavenSlay3r: right, which is why 2008.11 with IPS is a 700Mb CD while SXCE without IPS is a 4gb DVD
[04:28:28] <RavenSlay3r> very true
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[04:29:15] <galen> well, unless you add preservatives or caustic chemicals to the whole house :)
[04:29:21] <galen> another cool option.. maybe geekier...
[04:29:23] <RavenSlay3r> alanc oh, i get it now
[04:29:37] <galen> UV lights, even just basic blacklights, or bright UV LEDs will stop microbiological growth quite nicely
[04:30:01] <galen> install a blacklight or UV LED array in your coffee maker!!
[04:30:02] <RavenSlay3r> lmao i think we've hit the limit galen
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[04:30:29] <galen> sorry, i'm staring at SXCE downloading and opensolaris 2008-11 going through various contortions
[04:30:34] <RavenSlay3r> hmmm ... if only my Coffeepot had a USB port, i could install a USB LED UV array
[04:30:35] <galen> very boring
[04:31:34] <galen> i could lend you my UV laser, that way not only could you stop the brown algae growth, you could blind anybody who opened it! and best of all, they'd not know until the next day....
[04:31:37] <galen> ;)
[04:32:03] <RavenSlay3r> *inx based self-cleaning with UV/LEDs and USB ports coffee-pot - sounds like a thinkgeek.com hit-of-the-year
[04:32:33] <e^ipi> too useful for thinkgeek
[04:32:49] <RavenSlay3r> rofl
[04:33:04] <galen> I wonder if we could get Solaris running on Netsilicon SoCs
[04:33:31] <RavenSlay3r> i'm trying to do Solaris Web-Training ... starting at the beginning ...
[04:33:31] <galen> offer the ability to use a RAID-Z of multiple thumb drives
[04:33:32] <e^ipi> glue a stuffed monkey to a coffeepot with a USB powered light on it or something
[04:33:34] <RavenSlay3r> it's rivieting
[04:33:39] <e^ipi> that's just stupid enough for thinkgeek to be all over it
[04:34:07] <RavenSlay3r> e^ipi: very true
[04:37:49] <galen> ugh, only vi, and i think my keyboard mapping is somehow wrong
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[04:41:08] <galen> well, i have a nice configuration file. the stuff they spec in that blog isn't present. anybody know the best way to start X with the new .conf I have?
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[04:47:35] <e^ipi> i wonder if it's rEFIt or the installer that's puking on being able to play with the partition table
[04:48:12] <e^ipi> on my macbook
[04:48:33] <galen> e^ipi: are you installing solaris natively on your MacBook?
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[04:50:24] <e^ipi> was trying to anyways
[04:50:55] <bda> Sleep/trackpad work?
[04:51:13] <e^ipi> trackpad seems to work
[04:51:19] <e^ipi> haven't tried sleeping it
[04:51:31] <e^ipi> won't install though on account of EFI-ness
[04:51:35] <bda> ah.
[04:51:43] <galen> I'd suggest using OS X for partition tweaking.
[04:52:01] <e^ipi> galen: doesn't matter, the installer wants to write the partition table anyways
[04:52:12] <galen> oh, that could get messy
[04:52:13] <e^ipi> which fails, and then install fails
[04:52:23] <galen> i'd suggest installing in virtualization, then imaging to the partition
[04:52:33] <bda> I still can't use it. Firefox JS too slow for scheduling app. :(
[04:52:37] <bda> blah.
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[04:54:11] <galen> where's the x configuration kept on the live disc?
[04:54:25] <galen> i have a nice configuration setup for vesa, but i don't know offhand where to stuff it
[04:54:38] <e^ipi> it's not
[04:54:42] <e^ipi> it autodetects
[04:54:52] <alanc-away> stuff it in /etc/X11/xorg.conf
[04:56:41] <galen> e^ipi: ok, that would explain why i can't find it :)
[04:57:06] <galen> we have video!!
[04:57:20] <galen> why oh why doesn't it revert to VESA if the native driver fails??
[04:57:24] <galen> should i file a bug?
[04:57:57] <galen> i assume install-lan is what i want?
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[04:59:22] <e^ipi> presumably something related to X
[05:00:10] <galen> let's see if i can get into gnome
[05:02:13] <RavenSlay3r> What does the 'Compose' key do on the Solaris keyboard?
[05:02:31] <galen> it's for when you're not feeling creative and need inspiration.
[05:02:41] 
[05:02:42] <e^ipi> hah
[05:02:44] <_mary_kate_> s/compare/compose
[05:03:46] <RavenSlay3r> a'
[05:03:58] <_mary_kate_> type the ' first
[05:04:29] <galen> what's the best way to start the GUI properly? i have X working now...
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[05:06:30] <galen> somehow, it seems to log in as root, even if i do startx then gnome-session
[05:06:38] <galen> moreover, that gives me some truly wild windowing behavior
[05:06:46] <galen> root = no installer visible
[05:07:48] <galen> hmm, i think i found the insaller
[05:07:53] <RavenSlay3r> _mary_kate_: thanks, not working for me at the moment, but at least i know what it does now ;)
[05:08:16] <galen> it's great, every new window i get to position manually...
[05:08:23] <Triskelios> galen: you should just restart/enable gdm instead of starting X manually...
[05:09:46] <galen> Triskelios: I'm trying to install off the live disc. Rebooting will wipe away my custom X configuration
[05:09:54] <galen> great, now i'm trapped in the screensaver
[05:10:00] <galen> i enter a valid password and...
[05:10:03] <Triskelios> galen: I did *not* say reboot
[05:10:19] <Triskelios> galen: I meant restart gdm, not the system
[05:10:22] <galen> oh, ok
[05:10:30] <galen> i think i may have to though
[05:10:48] <Triskelios> jack/jack is the CD user
[05:10:53] <galen> yes, i know that
[05:10:58] <galen> i'm as root tho
[05:10:59] <galen> i put the right password into the screensaver
[05:11:24] <galen> it tells me that only authorized users may assume or something like that
[05:11:53] <galen> is there any way to switch users or force release from the password protected screensaver?
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[05:12:05] <Triskelios> kill X?
[05:12:29] <galen> umm, how?
[05:12:36] <Triskelios> ctrl-alt-backspace
[05:12:50] <Triskelios> if you have another computer, you can also ssh in
[05:12:51] <galen> hmm, lets see
[05:12:52] <abisen> Bartman007, e^ipi: So update VBox does support 64-Bit Guests (they just need a processor that supports VT not any EM64T processor would work)
[05:12:54] <galen> yeah
[05:13:12] <abisen> i just got a replacement processor, i love the fact that i live 3 mins drive from fry's
[05:13:14] <abisen> :)
[05:13:21] <galen> Vbox rocks... though OS X still causes it to die badly!!!
[05:13:35] <galen> (OS X as a guest)
[05:13:53] <galen> and I can't make any intelligible information out of the insanely long crash log it makes
[05:13:54] <abisen> OS X as a guest :O
[05:13:56] <abisen> really
[05:14:01] <galen> however, I have OS X booting up most of the way
[05:14:12] <galen> all or nearly all the kernel extensions load, then something causes vbox to die
[05:14:26] <galen> OS X should work fine, it's just that vbox dies
[05:14:59] <abisen> that would be amazing if that can work... i think OSX has some module Trusted something that would not let it work or something
[05:15:08] <galen> abisen: I have solved all those issues.
[05:15:28] <galen> the only issues are driver compatibility and... vbox crashing
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[05:15:47] <abisen> galen, wow.. then it's your moral responsibility to write out a blog
[05:16:16] <galen> well, the legal status of modifying the OS to run it in virtualization is interesting
[05:16:37] <galen> at least in most US state, it's not clear if the EULA is enforceable
[05:17:02] <galen> bottom line though, it's not the OS, that's easily manipulable, at the moment I'm stuck with vbox dying and I have no clue how or why
[05:17:14] <galen> it's right when the video modes change, after loading all the kernel extensions
[05:17:34] <galen> I think the video mode is the issue, but even if I reduce the resolution and whatnot, it still fails
[05:17:46] <galen> the same OS X virtualized install is happy in vmware though
[05:17:47] <Triskelios> I've had the same experience, with 10.4.8
[05:17:51] <galen> this is 10.5
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[05:18:04] <galen> and i have seen 10.4 in an old vbox once
[05:19:41] <galen> has anybody else noticed the large gap of time zone options in the opensolaris installer?
[05:19:51] <galen> LA is >1000 miles away. Vancouver BC is another country!!
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[05:21:20] <e^ipi> random geography lesson
[05:21:41] <galen> e^ipi: where in Canada are you?
[05:22:06] <spiff> haha.
[05:22:07] <galen> well, good news here... solars 2008-11 is installing. Should I file a bug about the nvidia drivers crashing with X?
[05:22:11] <e^ipi> at the moment, prince george
[05:22:19] <Triskelios> galen: well, I guess seattle would be the midpoint, and no-one cared to add a duplicate time zone for it
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[05:22:20] <spiff> 2008.11 out?
[05:22:29] <galen> RC
[05:22:41] <Triskelios> spiff: don't bet on it
[05:22:41] <abisen> galen, quick question i was installing linux on VBox and machine just restarted
[05:22:45] <abisen> has that ever happened to you
[05:22:45] <abisen> ?
[05:22:57] <e^ipi> home is vancouver, i'm going back come may
[05:23:05] <abisen> restarted not even (clean shutdown) just abruptly
[05:23:19] <galen> abisen: I am 99% sure I know what's up....
[05:23:43] <galen> I find that if you try and use hardware virtualization on systems that don't support it, it causes insta-crash or insta-reboot
[05:24:10] <abisen> i have a hardware that supports virtulization just bought a new E8200 Core 2 Duo
[05:24:26] <galen> even if you have suitable hardware, your BIOS could be out of date, or have the option disabled, or IIRC it may be on/off at the kernel level
[05:24:42] <galen> i'd try using virtualbox without Intel VT / AMD-whatever-the-crap-they-call-it
[05:25:06] <abisen> galen, thanks for the tip let me try once again ifr not then i'll just stop it
[05:25:20] <abisen> galen, without it i'll have to use 323-bit guest
[05:25:25] <galen> you should also check your BIOS, make sure the processor bits are set right
[05:25:35] <galen> there's a lot of bits that are all too often disabled by default
[05:27:05] <galen> what I *hate* are OS X apps that *assume* all Macs shipped with VT-enabled CPUs
[05:27:09] <galen> then you open them and... BAM
[05:27:14] <galen> insta-dead
[05:27:34] <galen> No way to change in the GUI, have to manually edit plist/bplist configurations, which sucks
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[05:28:02] <galen> I think 2008-11 installs a bit faster than 2008-05
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[05:34:37] <pumpkin_> is there a headless install option?
[05:34:44] <pumpkin_> I guess I don't really need it to be headless
[05:35:00] <pumpkin_> but would still be handy
[05:35:25] <jamesd> SXCE and Solaris support jumpstart  installs
[05:37:09] <galen> how would you pick what drive to install to? first disk?
[05:37:43] <galen> abisen and Triskelios here's my crash log from virtualbox: http://pastebin.com/m52f5ade7
[05:37:46] <jamesd> you set it up on the jumpstart server
[05:38:11] <jamesd> for the pacticular  mac addresses config settings
[05:38:32] <abisen> i disabled PXE and ACPI on the VM settings and it's working so far installation almost complete
[05:38:54] <abisen> galen, you might want to try that
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[05:39:30] <galen> abisen: please tell me all your settings. i am unable to boot OS X, even with several different kernels I've tried
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[05:49:58] <spiff> is native brand still supported?
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[05:59:00] <CIA-59> William Kucharski <William.Kucharski at Sun dot COM>: 6731552 GRUB should have the ability to overlay a logo on the graphical splash screen, 6762035 GRUB needs to understand new ext3 256 Byte inodes, 6762243 GRUB should be updated to version 0.97
[06:05:05] <comay> spiff, the native brand is always supported
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[06:06:40] <sputnick> hi there
[06:07:21] <sputnick> I've just installed/googled to install OS10, but I don't understand how start the network
[06:07:45] <sputnick> ( my OS10 is in a VM virtualbox but we don't care )
[06:07:59] <comay> OS10?  do you mean solaris 10?
[06:08:02] <Triskelios> "OS10"?
[06:08:05] <sputnick> that's it yes
[06:08:18] <Triskelios> solaris 10 is not opensolaris
[06:09:12] <Triskelios> but you should read the admin stuff on docs.sun.com
[06:09:18] <sputnick> how did you start the network guys ?
[06:09:29] <comay> the network will start depending on what you told the installer (manual IP address or DHCP)
[06:10:31] <sputnick> the installer didn't ask me for ip config
[06:11:53] <Triskelios> sputnick: are you sure this is solaris 10?
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[06:12:20] <sputnick> no
[06:12:21] <_mary_kate_> if it finds a DHCP server it won't ask for network details
[06:12:49] <sputnick> virtualbox give solaris an ip
[06:14:14] <sputnick> this is the iso image : os200805.iso
[06:14:24] <Triskelios> sputnick: that is opensolaris 2008.05. not solaris 10
[06:14:31] <sputnick> ok, sorry
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[06:15:31] <_mary_kate_> is there to find the serial number of a V20z from the SP?
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[06:15:36] <_mary_kate_> +a way
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[06:19:31] <_mary_kate_> 'inventory get all -v' lists a few serial numbers, but none look like the system itself
[06:19:36] <Triskelios> sputnick: the network configuration normally happens at boot. was it working with the live CD?
[06:20:02] <sputnick> Triskelios: I don't test it with live cd
[06:20:34] <sputnick> Triskelios: that's normally start by itself ?
[06:20:42] <_mary_kate_> hm, wonder if i can call sun with the serial# of the motherboard and get the system serial
[06:21:44] <Triskelios> sputnick: yes, it uses nwam by default which tries dhcp on all interfaces available
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[06:23:38] <sputnick> is opensolaris close to OpenBSD ? ( sounds yes )
[06:23:56] <_mary_kate_> ... why would you think that?
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[06:24:46] <sputnick> pkgadd a others thinks
[06:24:51] <sputnick> s/a/and
[06:25:33] <Triskelios> no, there is practically no relation
[06:26:03] <sputnick> ok. that's my very early hours in solaris ;)
[06:27:35] <Triskelios> (there are some bits here and there like network drivers and possibly old BSD stuff that share code with the BSDs)
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[06:28:56] <swankier> weird problem: I just updated a machine to snv_100 this morning... now zfs list says my rpool is 27gb (while it's 8 at most,) and my second rpool is gone
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[06:29:12] <swankier> I can no longer boot into the previous boot environment
[06:29:21] <swankier> zpool import rpool/export isn't returning
[06:29:25] <swankier> what can I do?
[06:29:43] <sputnick> I can ssh to my host distro from opensolaris guest. so, private network sounds to be ok
[06:30:16] <sputnick> but not internet
[06:30:18] <Triskelios> swankier: I think you might be confused about what pools are. you probably don't have a "second rpool"
[06:30:24] <swankier> sorry.
[06:30:28] <swankier> you're likely correct.
[06:30:36] <swankier> but I have rpool and rpool/export
[06:31:18] <swankier> or rather, rpool/ROOT (on one filesystem for the OS) and rpool/export (raidz1 for data)
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[06:32:25] <Triskelios> swankier: rpool/export isn't a valid pool name, either - it describes a subvolume of rpool...
[06:32:28] <swankier> rpool/export doesn't show up in zpool list any longer
[06:33:04] <swankier> Triskelios: what terminology would you prefer I use?  I'm obviously being incorrect.  None the less, my data is gone... and rpool says that it's 27gb... which is impossible
[06:33:07] <Triskelios> swankier: it never could have. pools don't have slashes in their names
[06:33:25] <LeftyBSD> swankier: go home, dude!
[06:33:34] <swankier> LeftyBSD: backup1 is nuked.
[06:33:54] <LeftyBSD> zpool import doesn't show any importable pools?
[06:33:56] <swankier> LeftyBSD: after an update to snv_100 this morning
[06:34:05] <LeftyBSD> fuck, my sister just left with the car, too, I can't come back any time soon
[06:34:45] <swankier> LeftyBSD: ssh.
[06:34:53] <swankier> zpool import doesn't return
[06:35:02] <swankier> or, at least, hasn't yet
[06:35:20] <LeftyBSD> is the machine responding to network?
[06:35:25] <swankier> yes
[06:35:30] <LeftyBSD> ok I'll log in
[06:35:44] <swankier> 10.1.1.45
[06:35:47] <galen> sweet, 2008-11 RC1 just needs to get the latest drivers from nvidia to work properly. Should i file a report about this?
[06:36:23] <Triskelios> galen: are the shipped drivers broken somehow?
[06:36:28] <galen> i guess so
[06:36:30] <galen> they don't work
[06:36:38] <galen> installing the newest from nvidia.com for solaris does
[06:37:23] <galen> ugh, i just changed refresh rates and gnome didn't make me confirm post-install
[06:37:26] <galen> er
[06:37:28] <galen> post-change
[06:38:04] <Ouro> does anyone find themselves adding crontab entried that ensure that a network interface is always properly configured by DHCP?
[06:38:25] <Triskelios> swankier: so I guess you have a second pool whose name you don't know, but a disk is either dead or the upgrade introduced a driver problem...
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[06:41:52] <swankier> Triskelios: if it were a driver problems, and I cannot move back to the previous version for whatever reason...
[06:41:55] <swankier> what are my recovery options?
[06:42:15] <swankier> s/problems/problem
[06:42:51] <Triskelios> swankier: well, it would help to know which driver is stuck. maybe check the stack for that kernel thread in kmdb
[06:43:05] <swankier> the pool was called ztank.
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[06:51:00] <galen> Where does gnome keep the X settings? I have the right res/refresh when i'm logged out, but then i log in and it goes all wrong...
[06:53:57] <_mary_kate_> found the answer to my V20z question: /usr/sbin/smbios prints the serial number
[06:56:07] <Triskelios> swankier: try echo "::pgrep zpool | ::walk thread | ::findstack"  | mdb -k
[06:56:42] <swankier> we've recovered the data.
[06:56:57] <swankier> running the command: zpool import rpool/export caused a hang.
[06:56:58] <Triskelios> galen: preferences->screen resolution in the menu
[06:57:16] <galen> Triskelios: I can't access the GUI. It goes to an invalid mode when I login.
[06:58:02] <sputnick> WTF ???!!! I can google with firefox but ping www.google.fr didn't work ! oO
[06:58:52] <Triskelios> galen: ah, rm -rf ~/.gconf/desktop/gnome/screen
[06:59:34] <Triskelios> sputnick: maybe gateway or ISP is dropping pings?
[06:59:44] <LeftyBSD> hmm, zpool import rpool/export is incorrect
[06:59:50] <swankier> it was.
[06:59:54] <swankier> but it shouldn't hang like that.
[07:00:00] <LeftyBSD> so I wonder if zpool got confused that you were asking to import a FS as a pool
[07:00:01] <Triskelios> swankier: indeed
[07:00:10] <LeftyBSD> yeah, it should never have hung, it should have bitched
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[07:01:35] <sputnick> Triskelios: no
[07:02:34] <sputnick> I can ping from my host
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[07:03:45] <_coredump_> nabend
[07:04:01] <sputnick> he, there's a package manager in GUI, nice :)
[07:04:34] <Triskelios> swankier, LeftyBSD: zpool doesn't appear to validate the pool names, so I guess it just tried checking every available device to see if one had a matching label
[07:04:55] <LeftyBSD> Triskelios: that was my thought
[07:04:56] <swankier> but I could not ^C it or kill -9 it
[07:05:11] <LeftyBSD> though there aren't many disks in that machine, so it shouldn't have taken more than a few seconds
[07:05:26] <Triskelios> swankier: something definitely screwed up while trying to access a disk
[07:05:27] <LeftyBSD> eight 1TB SATA + an OS drive
[07:06:23] <LeftyBSD> but yeah, it was severely wedged, as the box needed a full reboot to clear out the process
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[07:10:20] <swankier> Triskelios: part of the marketing of zfs is that it is fault tolerant.  It's not good enough, in my mind, to say that a disk problem caused a system hang.
[07:10:23] <Triskelios> which was why I suggested checking the associated stack
[07:10:26] <swankier> <pithy>
[07:10:32] <swankier> erm.
[07:10:34] <swankier> </pithy>
[07:10:50] <Triskelios> swankier: well, it's likely not a zfs problem per se, but an imperfect driver
[07:11:06] <swankier> and honestly, it wasn't a "system hang"... I just couldn't kill zfs
[07:11:11] <swankier> erm... zpool
[07:11:12] <LeftyBSD> what controller is in there? one of the RocketRAIDs?
[07:11:29] <swankier> I believe so
[07:11:31] <LeftyBSD> highpoint stuff pisses me off
[07:11:36] <LeftyBSD> their drivers are kinda ass
[07:11:47] <swankier> this isn't their driver, it's an opensolaris driver.
[07:11:57] <LeftyBSD> indeed
[07:12:07] <LeftyBSD> I was venting :)
[07:12:10] <swankier> :)
[07:13:31] 
[07:18:50] <Triskelios> swankier: unfortunately, there is nothing the system can do if a driver goes out to lunch while handling I/O (this isn't a microkernel...)
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[07:41:00] <Doc> i did read once that microkernels were better than monolithic systems
[07:41:14] <Doc> i think someone was saying Solaris was obsolete, or something like that...
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[07:52:00] <Triskelios> Doc: in theory that's true (and every "modern" OS is just a rehash of CP-67)
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[08:04:52] <e^ipi> Gman: you use a macbook, yeah? Any luck getting solaris installed on it through refit?
[08:05:05] <Gman> e^ipi: i haven't tried to be honest
[08:05:09] <e^ipi> fair enough
[08:05:17] <Gman> just been using virtutalbox
[08:05:31] <Gman> but i think my configuration should be ok - i have one of the older macbooks
[08:06:04] <e^ipi> my networking looks like it's not supported but it seems to work otherwise
[08:06:19] <e^ipi> except the installer doesn't like the fact that it can't run fdisk on stuff
[08:08:09] <e^ipi> if this gets accomplished it's getting a blog post...
[08:10:19] <e^ipi> it's a non-trivial operation
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[08:35:35] <abisen> okay VirtualBox is not working for me tried everything it just reboots my Solaris machine
[08:35:49] <abisen> tried two different guests Ubuntu and CentOS
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[08:36:12] <abisen> with OpenSolaric and XVM the io performance is terrible has anybody noticed that ?
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[08:37:15] *** comay changes topic to "SXCE 101, ON 101, IPS 101a || Step one: see if SAG answers your question: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/coll/47.16 || The answer to "I do $foo on *ux, how do I do it on Solaris" is http://bhami.com/rosetta.html || Clipboard: http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca"
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[09:03:25] <swankier> abisen: like vmware, there is some tuning you can do to improve performance
[09:03:29] <swankier> for centos at least
[09:03:52] <swankier> ubuntu may be using a tickless kernel, I'm not sure
[09:04:37] <abisen> swankier, it took 3 hrs to install centos 5.2 - 1GB of content
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[09:12:53] <swankier> that's... slow.
[09:16:10] <abisen> yup i think i'll dump native solaris for now and move back to linux and install opensolaris on a VM
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[09:20:56] <Auralis_> virtualbox works like a charm here on opensolaris
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[10:25:54] <swankier> how do I discover how much memory is in an opensolaris box?
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[10:27:05] <oholiks> swankier: prtconf
[10:27:10] <swankier> cheers
[10:27:24] <oholiks> np
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[11:22:39] <e^ipi> okiedokie
[11:22:52] <e^ipi> i think someone's taking the 'emancipation-discuss' name a wee bit too seriously
[11:23:19] <e^ipi> i just got a big 5 page rant in french by some socialist to the moderator queue
[11:23:42] <e^ipi> talking about capitalism and how we're being held down by the man and how modern democracy's all a sham
[11:30:04] <tsoome> now u know:)
[11:31:27] <e^ipi> i guess, yeah
[11:31:55] <e^ipi> i hadn't planned on joining the french resistance though
[11:38:16] <swankier> does lustre run on opensolaris?
[11:40:54] <palowoda> Actually opensolaris is not the primary platform Sun develops for first.  It's Solaris.
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[11:50:47] <CosmicDJ> swankier: http://www.sun.com/software/products/lustre/specs.xml
[11:52:06] <swankier> so lustre only runs on Linux, is that correct?
[11:53:12] <palowoda> It did even before they bought them.
[11:54:52] <swankier> asked in a second way, it is not yet running on opensolaris?
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[11:55:14] <swankier> I had read someone that the projected date was spring 2008, originally
[11:56:09] <swankier> s/someone/somewhere
[11:56:24] <palowoda> Marketing, doen't you just love them.
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[12:00:51] <swankier> is there any way to find the current status of it?
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[12:02:30] <CosmicDJ> if you want a cluster fs on solaris now, try qfs
[12:02:59] <swankier> qfs?
[12:03:41] <swankier> is it my ignorance alone that makes this the first time I've heard of it?
[12:05:03] <CosmicDJ> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QFS
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[12:07:58] <codestr0m> swankier: you're asking some interesting question.. if you don't mind me asking.. are you a developer?
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[12:08:32] <swankier> I'm a system architect
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[12:09:02] <swankier> trying to solve what should be a very simple problem, that is turning out to be quite troublesome...
[12:09:16] <swankier> distributing a 36tb filesystem on opensolaris+zfs
[12:09:19] <codestr0m> so I'm going to venture a guess you're trying to design a rather large storage system?
[12:09:22] <swankier> (well, data replication)
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[12:09:35] <swankier> I have one already... it's just not working in a very smart fashion
[12:09:35] <codestr0m> (question answered)
[12:09:48] <swankier> I have two x4500 with 48tb
[12:10:15] <swankier> and, well...
[12:10:26] <swankier> rsync was originally used by the initial system designer...
[12:10:26] <CosmicDJ> swankier: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/820-2561/cdcegbeg?a=view
[12:10:27] <codestr0m> oh. there's a blog entry just for you..
[12:10:45] <swankier> except, that's taking 1 week to sync data...
[12:10:52] <swankier> which is not exactly idea in a disaster scenario.
[12:11:32] <swankier> s/idea/ideal
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[12:11:44] <codestr0m> lol.. yeah. sub optimal.. take a look at the link CosmicDJ pasted.. and maybe someone can paste the link to the blog entry just about this.. cause the sun ha tools can be a bugger to configure. they are trying to make the situation better though
[12:12:03] <swankier> I'm open to difficult configs...
[12:12:04] <swankier> if they work
[12:12:06] <swankier> ;)
[12:12:13] <swankier> I'm usually more pleased with elegant...
[12:12:16] <swankier> but at this point...
[12:12:27] <swankier> this beggar cannot be a chooser.
[12:12:54] <codestr0m> well. I'm wondering why you didn't look at the ha tools before.. I assume you guys don't have a sun support contract
[12:13:11] <codestr0m> , but if you have 2x x4500... there must be a contact for sun floating around
[12:13:14] <swankier> there is
[12:13:17] <swankier> platinum
[12:13:23] <codestr0m> why not ask them?
[12:13:25] <swankier> I haven't called yet though, I'm trying to put my ducks in a row first
[12:13:33] <swankier> once I'm educated, I'll get people on site
[12:14:08] <CosmicDJ> you could also take a look at sun's availability suite to keep your 2 thumpers synced
[12:14:41] <dustman> I saw a presentation on Sun's High Availability Cluster
[12:14:59] <dustman> looks like solution to your problem, swankier
[12:15:13] <swankier> is it available for me to see?
[12:15:35] <swankier> is it block layer replication like avs?
[12:15:41] <dustman> http://opensolaris.org/os/community/ha-clusters/
[12:15:52] <swankier> because, my tests have shown that avs isn't very favourable in disaster scenarios.
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[12:16:19] <swankier> having to resilver a pool in a disaster scenario is no better than where I'm at now
[12:16:24] <swankier> (is terms of downtime.)
[12:16:35] <swankier> well... slightly better, but sub-optimal
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[12:20:31] <swankier> does anyone have any keywords to search for that blog?
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[12:45:51] <swankier> is this the blog that was mentioned earlier?  http://www.posix.brte.com.br/blog/?p=68
[12:50:19] <Chipdancer> ok guys.. I'm hoping to get to bed soon, but have a really frustrating luupgrade issue
[12:50:40] <Chipdancer> I'm upgrading snv_89 to snv_102 initially via UFS as ZFS isn't supported until snv_89
[12:51:14] <Chipdancer> so I've done an lucreate and that seems to have worked fine - http://pastebin.com/m404bbbe6
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[12:51:52] <Chipdancer> but then I run luupgrade and pfinstall complains that there's no valid BE -- http://pastebin.com/m37c0d3c4
[12:51:58] <Chipdancer> any suggestions most welcome!
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[12:57:01] <gonzzor> I've just installed OpenSolaris 2008.11 (101a_global) on a USB memory, but Grub can't find the ZFS /rpool, I only get grub shell on boot. Using geometry (hd0) gives "filesystem unknown" on first slice. I know that there is a ZFS fs there since I can mount it from within the LiveCD. Any clues on what I can do about it?
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[12:57:44] <trusiad> Hi everyone
[13:00:23] <tsoome> you have rpool on slice?
[13:01:05] <gonzzor> tsoome: Don't know, picked "use whole disk" during installation..
[13:02:26] <gonzzor> I guess it's the default layout...  But when I install on a normal sata disk I get grub to find a ZFS filesystem on the first slice of first partition on that disk.
[13:02:41] <gonzzor> That is by using the command geometry (hd0)
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[13:19:36] <swankier> gonzzor: beadm list?
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[13:20:56] <gonzzor> Yes, it's there. opensolaris R /a 2.90G static 2008-11-07 11:35
[13:21:14] <gonzzor> It's /a because I have used -R /a when doing a zpool import on the device
[13:22:41] <swankier> sorry, that was my best guess, as I am not familiar with pfinstall
[13:22:57] <swankier> are you using the correct version of pfinstall for your os?
[13:25:42] <gonzzor> I used the gui installer that came with the LiveCD to install.. But I remember that it complained that it couldn't figure out what the bios device would be. So something was wrong there.
[13:26:11] <gonzzor> I did a manual installation with installgrub after that, but I don't know if there is something more that I need to do..
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[14:37:34] <james1> can i install ddclient in my solaris
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[14:52:10] <james1> is it possible to install ddclient , or is there other dns client by defut
[14:52:15] <james1> deafeut
[14:52:22] <james1> default
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[14:57:59] <sickness> about to upgrade my gw to obsd 4.4-STABLE sayonara.
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[15:07:26] <CosmicDJ> sickness: don't forget to apply the 5 patches from http://www.de.openbsd.org/errata44.html ...
[15:09:25] <sickness> damn, I had my -STABLE at just the first 2 :(
[15:09:35] <sickness> well, I'll simply update the binaries later...
[15:09:47] <sickness> no big deal, anyway tnx for the remainder :)
[15:10:05] <sickness> I have my vademecum to rebuild the release updated: http://www.sickness.it/openbsdcvs.txt
[15:10:09] <sickness> :)
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[15:17:37] <codestr0m> whatever happened to http://opensolaris.org/os/project/conary-eval/announcements/#2008-02-08_Conary_evaluation_project_unveiled_on_OpenSolaris_org_
[15:17:57] <swankier> how do I upgrade to a particular version with pkg image-update?
[15:18:06] <codestr0m> swankier: can't afaik
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[15:18:18] <swankier> is there some other tool to do it?
[15:18:24] <swankier> I need a box that is snv_99
[15:18:39] <codestr0m> for driver reasons?
[15:18:54] <codestr0m> (just a wild guess based on what I've seen lately)
[15:18:58] <swankier> haha
[15:19:05] <swankier> I've had some bad issues with drivers lately
[15:19:10] <codestr0m> no kidding!
[15:19:13] <codestr0m> so have other people :P
[15:19:14] <CosmicDJ> codestr0m: read the opensolaris forums; there was sort of a war between martin and the pkg-gang... I think martin got sick of it and lost interest somehow
[15:19:32] <codestr0m> CosmicDJ: can't say I blame him :) I'll maybe ping him at some point
[15:19:45] <swankier> but mostly because I'm making a staging environment of my production servers, and that is the version they are running
[15:19:56] <codestr0m> pkg5 gang are a pretty determined smart group of individuals
[15:20:25] <CosmicDJ> codestr0m: infected with the NIH syndrome?
[15:20:39] <codestr0m> CosmicDJ: well.. yeah, but that's not the point ;)
[15:21:01] <codestr0m> to convince people who aren't used to being wrong you need to present technical evidence
[15:21:28] <codestr0m> which in this case is rather futile since 1) they say.. "we'll implement that" or 2) we don't like that
[15:22:28] <swankier> so it the only way to install a particular version to download that iso?
[15:23:15] <codestr0m> swankier: is that so hard? or you prefer to pull the ON source hg pull -C (hash) to the snv_XX version you particularly need for some xyz reason
[15:23:48] <swankier> no, it's not hard at all
[15:24:00] <swankier> but I would have expected a command-line argument to pkg to select a version.
[15:24:04] <CosmicDJ> swankier: there is just one "real" opensolaris release, yet, 2008.05
[15:24:13] <CosmicDJ> swankier: anything else is dev. preview
[15:24:31] <swankier> and hardly any of them are useful.  this I am well aware of.
[15:24:48] <codestr0m> swankier: genunix.org may have torrents and iso images you need
[15:25:02] <swankier> thank you
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[15:29:40] <RavenSlay3r> Is this the correct link for the OpenSolaris 2008.11 RC? http://genunix.org/distributions/indiana/osol-0811-101a-rc1b.iso
[15:31:01] <codestr0m> RavenSlay3r: by correct what do you mean. like latest version?
[15:31:47] <RavenSlay3r> codestr0m: yeah the latest RC in the official Indiana branch
[15:32:04] <RavenSlay3r> I would have thought it would be on a sun domain.. so i was confused
[15:32:06] <codestr0m> RavenSlay3r: umm. just pull any iso. refresh and update and you'll have the latest bits
[15:32:30] <codestr0m> RavenSlay3r: there was release notes posted earlier today with downloads from dlc.sun*
[15:32:52] <codestr0m> maybe check those if you're subscribed or find the announcement
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[15:46:47] <RavenSlay3r> hmm can't find that announcement ...
[15:47:20] <RavenSlay3r> All links from the Opensolaris.org seem to point to genuix.or so i guess that's it. too bad the DL keeps failing.
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[16:01:44] <RavenSlay3r> Found it http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=81895&tstart=0
[16:01:56] <RavenSlay3r> genunix still won't let me download it ;(
[16:03:02] <codestr0m> RavenSlay3r: try the torrrent
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[16:05:14] <codestr0m> RavenSlay3r: http://dlc.sun.com/torrents/info/
[16:05:21] <codestr0m> see if any of that can maybe help
[16:05:43] <codestr0m> if there's enough seeders on the torrent you're in luck
[16:06:07] <RavenSlay3r> might have to try it .. think i need to install a torrent-client tho
[16:06:29] <codestr0m> I'm using transmission, but it's not supported anymore I think
[16:06:42] <RavenSlay3r> lol, so much for installing a new virtual-machine on the laptop before making coffee, ;)
[16:06:55] <codestr0m> , but as long as you don't need the latest version should be fine
[16:07:13] <Auralis> transmission is very well in development
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[16:09:10] <RavenSlay3r> looks like i'm in luck with the b98 iso from genunix
[16:09:37] <RavenSlay3r> didn't want to start back at 05.2008 ... the first couple updates are a hassle
[16:09:41] <RavenSlay3r> Thanks for the help :)
[16:09:48] <kimc> whats the difference between the -global and -gloabal-usb versions?
[16:10:02] <codestr0m> kimc: I think one fits on a cd and the other doesn't
[16:10:07] <kimc> ahh thanks
[16:11:19] <sickness> I'm back
[16:20:41] <serge> hi folks! i want some opensolaris on my laptop, but it has broadcom bcm 5787M  NIC. there is no driver for it, but big admin says, that bcme should fit. i'm curious how to tell OS to use this this bcme? thanks in advance!
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[16:23:40] <codestr0m> serge: which version of opensolaris? I mean which iso/cd did you use
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[16:24:10] <serge> codestr0m: 2008.05
[16:24:48] <codestr0m> serge: umm. there's some general confusion on what is os2008xx.. so knowing the exact iso can help
[16:24:59] <codestr0m> I mean did you get the latest version from genunix.org or?
[16:25:22] <codestr0m> cause the original one (not a respin) may not have your driver. even if that's reflected on the hcl
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[16:25:47] <serge> nope, i'm really newbie to opensolaris..
[16:26:24] <codestr0m> serge: sure I understand.. you may consider pulling a respin/newer version from genunix.org
[16:27:00] <codestr0m> there's two versions normally. so if you have a cd-r make sure to get the smaller one
[16:27:35] <xRaich[o]2x> hrm... downloading a fresh build 86 iso. my system really suffers from regression :/
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[16:28:02] <serge> hmm.. what is respin? =) is it some kind of unofficial distro?
[16:28:18] <_mary_kate_> serge: when a release is broken and it's re-released with a fix of some kind
[16:28:27] <_mary_kate_> or perhaps for some other reason
[16:29:25] * codestr0m stabs IPS
[16:29:41] <serge> thank you! will try now )
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[16:39:42] <kohju> ummm,,,, this is me... http://mediacast.sun.com/users/hiroa/media/20081107-OSHTS5_18.mpg/details
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[16:40:57] <kristian_> abend
[16:41:23] <kristian_> soviele neue solariser ?
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[16:52:12] <xRaich[o]2x> kristian_: wrong language ;)
[16:52:21] <kristian_> ah ok sorry
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[17:16:14] <swankier> could anyone point to what "invalid vdev configuration" means when trying to import a zpool?
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[17:18:37] <swankier> there was data in freebsd.
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[17:20:36] <codestr0m> what's this /lib/amd64/llib-lpam.ln: 8086 relocatable (Microsoft) is that a lint file which got installed?
[17:20:46] <_mary_kate_> codestr0m: yes, that's a lint library
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[17:21:15] <_mary_kate_> (strange that file doesn't have magic for it)
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[17:21:37] <codestr0m> _mary_kate_: stupid question.. why was it installed?
[17:21:45] <_mary_kate_> so lint can use it
[17:21:55] <_mary_kate_> all libraries have their corresponding lint libraries installed
[17:21:56] <codestr0m> _mary_kate_: on a production system?
[17:22:09] <_mary_kate_> codestr0m: lint uses it when linting code that links against that library
[17:22:43] <codestr0m> for when you need to run lint I can understand, but umm. not installing it on a production box
[17:22:54] <_mary_kate_> i develop all my code on solaris 10
[17:23:04] <_mary_kate_> i want to lint it :)
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[17:24:20] <CosmicDJ> did you pkgchk it? in which pkg is that file?
[17:24:27] <codestr0m> development box != production box.. which imho shouldn't even have a compiler installed
[17:24:55] <_mary_kate_> codestr0m: then don't install the lint libraries on your production box
[17:25:25] <codestr0m> _mary_kate_: umm.. nvm.. :)
[17:25:28] <codestr0m> thanks
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[17:31:16] <swankier> zpool status says "insufficient devices" although both drives are available
[17:31:37] <swankier> zpool import -f zfsdata fails
[17:31:40] <swankier> what can I do?
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[17:57:06] <plavcik> can I put osol-0811-101a-rc1b-global.usb to usb stick in Linux? usbcopy script is returning syntax error on line 57, and dd to usb stick not work
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[18:19:33] <gerard13> hello, anybody knows how to convert mp3 files to wav files in opensolaris?
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[18:26:25] <codestr0m> gerard13: you need to play an mp3?
[18:27:04] <h3sp4wn> compile ffmpeg maybe / build the lame gst plugin / get mencoder or compile it
[18:27:33] <codestr0m> or just go http://www.fluendo.com/downloads.php
[18:27:46] <codestr0m> the fluendo shop offers a free mp3 codec download
[18:27:50] <gerard13> i'm trying to use lame and ffmpeg from lifewithsolaris.jp repository
[18:27:51] <codestr0m> long term solution is being worked on
[18:28:11] <h3sp4wn> Thats only for playback though
[18:28:14] <gerard13> i have mp3 files, and need to burn it on cd
[18:28:39] <gerard13> i want solaris solutions
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[18:28:54] <h3sp4wn> the fluendo codec is crap as well
[18:29:35] <gerard13> cdrrecord is always saying that something is wrong in my new wav converted file
[18:29:54] <montcalm> What package are the sun audio header files in?  I'm trying to compile mplayer and the only audio output it seems to find is sdl.
[18:30:14] <gerard13> compile mplayer is a nightmare
[18:30:44] <h3sp4wn> Its pretty easy if you just build gcc 4.2 or 4.3 first
[18:30:58] <gerard13> and on my os2008 snv_100, package updates are totally broken
[18:31:31] <montcalm> I should be okay as far as codecs are concerned since I don't need any video codecs really.
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[18:32:36] <montcalm> How did you get mplayer to compile for native sun audio output?
[18:33:07] <gerard13> montcalm, why don't you try mplayer from blastwave?
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[18:34:12] <montcalm> I'll try it.
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[18:34:47] <gerard13> nobody here trying to burn audio cd from mp3 files?
[18:35:19] <TomJ> not from solaris, no
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[18:36:45] <gerard13> grmf
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[18:40:55] <CosmicDJ> I think the last time a did that was years! ago...
[18:41:15] <CosmicDJ> (not on solaris, though)
[18:43:37] <gerard13> ok, it seems that ffmpeg will be a solution, and cdrecord... why cdrw is not present in os2008?
[18:44:42] <CosmicDJ> because not every package fits on a small cd image...
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[18:51:00] <dustman> there's a tool for cd/dvd burning in osol
[18:52:07] <gerard13> dustman: what tool?
[18:52:34] <CosmicDJ> and cdrw is in the net repo
[18:53:10] <dustman> simply inserting empty disk into dvd drive prompts for a program to open it with
[18:53:14] <gerard13> CosmicDJ: i just installed it thanks
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[18:53:29] <dustman> one of them is for writing cds
[18:53:32] <gerard13> dustman, do you talk of brasero?
[18:53:47] <dustman> hell know how it's called
[18:53:55] <dustman> wait a minute
[18:54:44] <gerard13> brasero doesn't burn wav file:
[18:54:56] <gerard13> "file.wav" can't be handled by gstreamer: Make sure the appropriate  codec is installed.
[18:55:11] <dustman> well, window called CD/DVD creator
[18:55:23] <dustman> what is used I don't know
[18:57:50] * dustman prefers cdrtools
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[19:12:40] <shadfc> trying to do a pkg image-update but it fails with "raw device must be a root slice (not s2)".   pkg output and zpool status at http://dpaste.com/89497/
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[19:13:29] <james1> what's the ftp-server that you use
[19:14:10] <james1> cause the default ftp server in solaris must use ftp client for seeing the folder
[19:14:37] <hali> ??
[19:14:57] <james1> and when i ' m login with other client i can't see any folder or file
[19:16:03] <james1> te defautl ftp-server in solris , it's compatible only with "ftp " client
[19:16:32] <CosmicDJ> shadfc: do you still know how you setup the 2nd disk? (c4t0d0s0 vs. c4t1d0p1 looks trange IMHO)
[19:17:45] <shadfc> CosmicDJ: i used format and it the same way as the first disk.  but i couldnt get it to add to the mirror using s0, but p1 worked (solaris is first partition, other is second partition)
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[19:18:42] <_mary_kate_> what is "OpenSolaris Essentials Support"?
[19:20:39] <shadfc> CosmicDJ: i get an I/O error when trying to add c4t1d0s0
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[19:21:12] <james1> i didn't have /etc/shells
[19:21:33] <TomJ> _mary_kate_: pay money to Sun, get support?  (at twice the rate of Solaris 10 support I believe)
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[19:21:50] <_mary_kate_> TomJ: apparently it's included in our standard solaris support
[19:21:52] <james1>  SXCE 101 doesn't have /etc.shells
[19:21:55] <TomJ> oh right
[19:22:09] <_mary_kate_> but it doesn't really say what it is...
[19:22:24] <_mary_kate_> i assume it can't include patches, since there's no patch repository for opensolaris yet
[19:22:53] <james1> please help what's the similair of /etc/shells in solaris express
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[19:23:55] <TomJ> _mary_kate_: http://www.sun.com/service/opensolaris/
[19:24:26] <TomJ> looks like it's 48 hour response by email on questions, no telephone, plus error logging (I thought anyone could do that) and knowledge base
[19:25:32] <_mary_kate_> that seems less than useful
[19:25:43] <_mary_kate_> i suppose it'll improve in time
[19:26:08] <TomJ> it's only $324 a year, so yeah it's pretty limited
[19:26:19] <_mary_kate_> ah it's cheaper if you just buy that
[19:26:25] <_mary_kate_> that makes sense
[19:27:26] * _mary_kate_ wonders how much 'solaris everywhere' costs
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[19:40:35] <gerard13> dustman, what do you do when cdrecord says: ""Inappropriate audio coding in" ?
[19:40:36] <mwd> can I get some education on how to get NICs on my desktop to work with Solaris 10/8... the fastethernet nic worked with open solaris..but not with plain sol 19
[19:41:00] <_mary_kate_> mwd: what NIC?
[19:41:33] <mwd> well... I purchased the linksys wusb54gc....
[19:41:38] <mwd> for wireless
[19:41:47] <mwd> if I can get that to work.. I will be back on track..
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[19:42:11] <_mary_kate_> is that a USB wifi card?
[19:42:36] <_mary_kate_> i don't know anything about those, but you might check the laptop community / lists on opensolaris.org
[19:42:37] <mwd> yes. I downloaded the driver that works with opensolaris for the wusb54g...
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[19:42:52] <mwd> will that work with sun solaris?
[19:43:07] <james1> i'm so happy
[19:43:19] <james1> my proftp work very good
[19:43:25] <_mary_kate_> mwd: that depends if it's an "opensolaris" driver or a "solaris 10" driver
[19:43:36] <james1> the problem coming all the time from me
[19:43:46] <mwd> its an opensolaris driver from the opensolaris laptop group...
[19:44:02] <mwd> is there a big enough diference that you can not cross back to the sun solaris?
[19:44:24] <_mary_kate_> mwd: it depends.  solaris offers _forward_ compatibility, which means a solaris 10 driver would work on opensolaris
[19:44:40] <_mary_kate_> mwd: but if the driver is for opensolaris and makes use of new features not present in solaris 10, it won't work there
[19:45:05] <_mary_kate_> (well, i guess that's backward compatibility, not forward)
[19:45:09] <mwd> understandable...I guess I will just give it a try...how scarry is it to write drivers by the way?
[19:45:43] <_mary_kate_> mwd: for solaris, not very, as long as you understand how a driver works.  sun publishes a manual (the device driver development guide) on docs.sun.com
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[19:45:57] <james1> ftp://196.206.75.123
[19:45:57] <_mary_kate_> mwd: and unlike certain other OSs, solaris doesn't change the kernel APIs every two weeks, so if you write a driver once... it'll work forever
[19:46:07] <james1> can nyone tell me if work or no ?
[19:46:09] <mwd> awesome... thank you so much for your time...
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[19:47:35] <james1> _mary_kate_: is ir work for you , please
[19:47:41] <james1> is it*
[19:48:16] <_mary_kate_> is what work for me?
[19:48:53] <james1> _mary_kate_: ftp://196.206.75.123
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[19:50:59] <_mary_kate_> james1: login failed
[19:51:19] <james1> _mary_kate_: uer = blind and pass = metallica
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[19:53:36] <james1> _mary_kate_: still have problem in hostname.interface
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[19:54:57] <james1> _mary_kate_: i change all the file nd i rename my hostname symphony and what must i put in hostname.interface
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[19:55:51] <james1> i write only my hostname
[19:56:30] <CosmicDJ> james1: hm someone should tell you that (non anonymous) ftp servers are bad: use sftp!
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[19:57:36] <james1> CosmicDJ: but same only secure shell + ftp
[19:58:21] <james1> CosmicDJ: why are bad ??
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[19:59:40] <CosmicDJ> james1: plaintext over an unsecure network, I think you can figure it out yourself why that's bad ;)
[20:00:31] <james1> CosmicDJ: ahaha but i'm just trining now
[20:00:37] <e^ipi> in a public, logged , indexed, searchable forum
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[20:01:24] <mikeconcepts> does anybody know if it is possible to watch full episodes on abc.com within the USA - like maybe a way to look like the correct OS for firefox? and if so, does it work well?
[20:01:41] <james1> e^ipi: hello please what i must write in /etc/hostname.interface
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[20:02:18] <_mary_kate_> hmm, i thought linux was meant to be cheap... 24x7 ubuntu support is more than twice as much as solaris
[20:02:37] <e^ipi> james1: the link in the /topic .
[20:02:47] <e^ipi> james1: read it, it details how to set that up
[20:03:01] <e^ipi> _mary_kate_: RHEL support is 3x as much as solaris
[20:03:02] <CosmicDJ> the holy SAG bible?
[20:03:09] <e^ipi> CosmicDJ: that'd be the one
[20:03:15] <james1> e^ipi: again , ayayaya cause i read a looooooot today
[20:03:25] <e^ipi> okay
[20:03:32] <e^ipi> the info's still there
[20:03:41] <e^ipi> it's in the networking section
[20:03:46] <CosmicDJ> solaris needs a manpage like hostname.if on *bsd IMHO
[20:04:04] <e^ipi> shortest manpage ever
[20:04:14] <james1> e^ipi: i'll read again no problem
[20:04:34] <CosmicDJ> I don't think so; you can just put a hostname in there...
[20:04:40] <CosmicDJ> can+'t
[20:05:13] <CosmicDJ> also think of stuff like ipv6...
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[20:10:51] <trojatra> OpenSolaris install/Live CD has stalled after "Configuring devices." it was making a lot of really weird noise from the CD drive before it stalled.
[20:11:01] <trojatra> (Beeps and boops and "scratchy" sounds)
[20:11:30] <Stric> noise from the CD drive is usually a hardware problem, not a software problem..
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[20:11:43] <trojatra> I understand that.
[20:11:53] <trojatra> But it still stalled.
[20:12:25] <TomJ> sounds like there's a party in your CD drive and you're not invited
[20:12:42] <Stric> Your HW might still be broken, and not all stuff can be avoided from SW
[20:13:05] <trojatra> Alright, I'll try booting from it again later, hopefully it works :\
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[20:13:12] <e^ipi> "help my cdrom caught fire when i tried to boot opensolaris. The docs say nothing about how to resolve"
[20:13:15] <e^ipi> ;)
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[20:13:28] <Stric> trojatra: check for dirt/scratches on the disc
[20:14:22] <e^ipi> try rebooting... if it won't boot anymore, then it's the drive that's completely broken
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[20:21:57] <serge_again_> hello again! i got a problem with drivers for broadcom NIC: bmc 5787M. they don't exist =((  big admin says it's ok to use bmce driver. help me please make OS to use this bmce as ethernet driver.
[20:23:22] <Triskelios> serge_again_: you want bge
[20:24:06] <mitrox> cp /etc/hostname.bmc0 /etc/hostname.bmce0 ; touch /reconfigure ; reboot
[20:24:15] <Triskelios> serge_again_: just upgrade to snv_94 or later
[20:25:00] <serge_again_> Triskelios: i am a bit newbie =)  what is snv_94?
[20:25:16] <serge_again_> mitrox: thnx, will try now
[20:25:27] <Triskelios> serge_again_: build 94 of opensolaris
[20:25:35] <mitrox> serge_again_, btw, try to set "PNP OS" in BIOS
[20:25:37] <Stric> run 'uname -a' and see what it says about snv_XX
[20:25:55] <Triskelios> mitrox: your instructions won't work if he's using nwam
[20:26:09] <techqbert> Solaris 10 10/08 just came out.  Is it built on the advances in osl right?
[20:26:13] <serge_again_> mitrox: pnp is not plug&play this time, i think?
[20:26:22] <_mary_kate_> techqbert: some code from opensolaris was backport for S10, yes
[20:27:03] <mitrox> plug in play, right
[20:27:17] <Triskelios> mitrox: that doesn't matter for any modern systems
[20:27:30] <serge_again_> mitrox: never saw such things in bioses oO
[20:27:31] <mitrox> what is nwam?
[20:27:48] <Triskelios> serge_again_: yeah, it's from the old ISA days
[20:27:50] <serge_again_> mitrox: auto magic
[20:28:01] <serge_again_> mitrox: net work auto magic
[20:28:10] <serge_again_> mitrox: really strange daemon ))
[20:28:17] <Triskelios> serge_again_: are you running 2008.05?
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[20:28:24] <Auralis> in otherwords, a fancy name for some dhcp crap
[20:28:28] <sjaak> save
[20:28:36] <serge_again_> Triskelios: yepp
[20:28:36] <sjaak> exit
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[20:29:06] <Triskelios> Auralis: basically. it has advantages for wireless, though
[20:29:10] <techqbert> _mary_kate_: thanks.  do you know if sol 10 10/08 runs 5.10 or 5.11?
[20:29:17] <Triskelios> serge_again_: is there another network connection you can use?
[20:29:22] <serge_again_> Triskelios: i just reinstalled os200805-1.iso from genunix. didn't help (
[20:29:23] <Triskelios> techqbert: solaris 10 is always 5.10
[20:29:23] <_mary_kate_> techqbert: solaris 10 10/08 is solaris 10
[20:29:30] <serge_again_> this one =))
[20:29:31] <_mary_kate_> techqbert: if it was 5.11, it would be solaris 11
[20:29:45] <serge_again_> Triskelios: this one =)
[20:29:52] <estibi> btw, sun xvm server is 5.11 :)
[20:29:53] <Triskelios> serge_again_: try one of the 2008.11 snapshots
[20:30:00] <_mary_kate_> estibi: and it's not solaris 10
[20:30:06] <estibi> right
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[20:31:06] <serge_again_> Triskelios: are they stable in any meaning? i did upgrade to a latest image once, and was scared by console font ))
[20:31:29] <Triskelios> serge_again_: they're more stable than the original 2008.05 by far
[20:31:38] <techqbert> _mary_kate_: ahh o; ez enough
[20:31:40] <Triskelios> serge_again_: mostly because a lot of bugs have been fixed
[20:32:10] <Triskelios> serge_again_: more importantly, they're new enough that the builtin bge driver supports your NIC
[20:32:20] <serge_again_> Triskelios: cool! =))
[20:32:42] <serge_again_> Triskelios: btw, when will be 2008.11?
[20:33:13] <serge_again_> Triskelios: if u know of course ))
[20:33:39] <Stric> serge_again_: year 2008, month 11..
[20:34:23] <serge_again_> Stric: =)
[20:34:28] <Triskelios> last day of the month is a good guess
[20:35:21] <serge_again_> what should i do to get this upgrade, when it is released?
[20:35:36] <Triskelios> pkg image-update
[20:35:39] <serge_again_> will there be a huge button? )
[20:35:57] <serge_again_> "GET THE NEW 2008.11" =))
[20:36:05] <Gman> carefully read - http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/indiana/resources/relnotes/200805/image-update/
[20:36:19] <Gman> mmm, need to catch a flight - later all :)
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[20:36:48] <e^ipi> feh, i think i'm broken... i can't seem to pull a drinkable shot of espresso at all today
[20:37:34] <serge_again_> and if want only stable version, without advance to the builds after 2008.11?
[20:39:35] <Stric> stuff isn't decided yet, wait until 2008.11 has been released for info how to go from there
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[20:41:59] <serge_again_> thank you very much, people, for all the info!
[20:42:18] <serge_again_> *out for development build =)
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[21:01:02] <dustman> 'vi --version' tells about patches: are they original vim patches or solaris specific?
[21:02:09] <Stric> "Included patches: 1-x" ?
[21:02:19] <dustman> yes
[21:02:30] <Stric> should be original patches from Bram
[21:02:39] <dustman> ty, Stric
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[21:13:20] <jonrafkind> I am running opensolaris with virtualbox 2.0 under ubuntu but networking does not seem to be working. anyone know how to fix it?
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[21:15:47] <jbk> are you using pcnet or e1000 for the emulated nic?
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[21:16:40] <jonrafkind> intel pro 1000 MT
[21:16:55] <jonrafkind> the other choices are amd pcnet, should I use that?
[21:17:14] <jonrafkind> I downloaded some ae driver but it doesnt want to load
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[21:49:43] <Triskelios> jonrafkind: pcnet and e1000 both should work out of the box... try pcnet first
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[21:49:51] <jonrafkind> neither work
[21:50:00] <jonrafkind> but ill try upgrading to 2008.11
[21:50:08] <jonrafkind> some website said 2008.05 does not support virtualbox very well
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[21:55:18] <codestr0m> mbp1: ping me if you're around. have a quick question for you
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[21:58:55] <CIA-59> natalie li - Sun Microsystems - Irvine United States <Natalie.Li at Sun dot COM>: 6769237 Unable to map a share if the non-default NetBIOS domain name is used
[21:59:44] <Triskelios> jonrafkind: 2008.05 was tested extensively with vbox before it was released, so you should not have problems
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[22:03:35] <james1> e^ipi: is there solaris certification ?
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[22:08:33] <Auralis> several
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[22:20:51] <gonzzor> Is it possible to get a somewhat minimal installation of OpenSolaris. I don't need desktop stuff on my file server. Or should I just install it and remove stuff I don't need?
[22:22:02] <jbit> gonzzor: i installed and removed, was easy enough
[22:22:04] <jamesd> first for servers its probably best to use SXCE or Solaris, then you can pick and choose, but really disk is cheap, its easiest just to install it all. and disable the gui.
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[22:23:02] <hrist> which is easy as dunnowhat with svcadm :) (svcadm disable gdm)
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[22:24:49] <codestr0m> gonzzor: after you remove slim_install which is like a meta package you may find it easier to really tear stuff up
[22:25:25] <e^ipi> you could also use milax
[22:25:31] <e^ipi> which is quite minimized
[22:25:33] <codestr0m> also make sure to read up on beadm since if you break your current environment it'll give you the option to roll back
[22:26:16] <e^ipi> balls, it doesn't look like fluxbox is going to turn off my monitors from inactivity
[22:27:13] <gonzzor> Thanks.. I think I'll just disable the GUI.. It's simplest..
[22:33:07] <codestr0m> gonzzor: probably safer for system stability as well.. also running things from zones could be an option as well
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[22:33:47] <gonzzor> I had some plans to run some virtual machines on it as well, using xen/xvm..
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[22:37:55] <dustman> hm, brandz can substitute linux, correct?
[22:38:34] <dustman> and bsds run bad in virtual box at least (on my machine)
[22:38:53] <Triskelios> dustman: there are linux 2.4 and 2.6 brands, although they are not perfect
[22:40:26] <dustman> only use for linux on osol box that I can see is fro easy rpm packages
[22:41:16] <_mary_kate_> dustman: to run software that doesn't support solaris
[22:42:35] <dustman> software wise windows is better ;)
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[22:44:56] <_mary_kate_> people migrating from windows aren't the target market of linux zones
[22:45:17] <_mary_kate_> the point is to allow people to run their RHEL software in a solaris zone while they migrate to a proper solaris platform
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[22:52:35] <TopBunny88> Hello
[22:53:50] <victori_> hmm anyone actually use opensolaris as their desktop?
[22:54:11] <hrist> I know one person who does so
[22:54:18] <Triskelios> victori_: yeah, it's actually pretty nice. suspend doesn't work yet for me though
[22:54:23] <victori_> primary desktop though?
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[22:55:37] <dustman> I do
[22:56:38] <Triskelios> victori_: to be clear, I've been using SXCE, but have a second laptop testing 2008.11 now
[22:57:05] <victori_> as long as eclipse and virtualbox work on indiana ill be golden
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[22:58:23] <kim0> Is it possible to install 2008.11 to a USB stick ?!
[22:58:35] <Ravenslay3r1> Is 'bash' more similar to ksh or csh?
[22:58:41] <Triskelios> Ravenslay3r1: ksh
[22:59:02] <Ravenslay3r1> and was ksh the solaris default before bash?
[22:59:12] <Triskelios> kim0: should be. make sure it's not the type of flash that wears out easily though
[22:59:46] <_mary_kate_> Ravenslay3r1: the default shell in solaris has always been /bin/sh and still is
[22:59:51] <Triskelios> Ravenslay3r1: bash is only the default for login shells on opensolaris 2008.05/11
[23:00:00] <_mary_kate_> perhaps 2008.05 creates a user with bash as the shell, but that doesn't make it 'default' anything
[23:00:08] <kim0> Triskelios: nah .. it's a real disk ...
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[23:00:21] <kim0> Triskelios: so I should just install .. no tricks ? :)
[23:00:30] <Triskelios> kim0: should be fine as long as your BIOS can handle it
[23:00:33] <Ravenslay3r1> Thanks Triskelios _mary_kate_
[23:01:53] <Ravenslay3r1> _mary_kate_:  Bash is the default when you open a user-terminal in open-sol.. so i guess thats what i ment
[23:02:08] <_mary_kate_> that's default it's your user's shell
[23:02:12] <_mary_kate_> in /etc/passwd
[23:02:20] <Triskelios> Ravenslay3r1: yup, that's the only place it's used basically
[23:02:22] <kim0> Is 2008.x what we should call "open solaris" ?
[23:02:29] <jonrafkind> Triskelios, I just did a clean install of opensolaris 2008.05 and am using pcnet fast III. I have an ip but I can't ping google
[23:02:34] <_mary_kate_> kim0: that depends what you mean by opensolaris
[23:02:49] <_mary_kate_> kim0: opensolaris is a website, a community, and some source code.  there's an OS built from this source code which is also called opensolaris
[23:03:04] <_mary_kate_> kim0: unfortunately, sun thought it was a good idea to create two distinct entities with the same name
[23:03:19] <kim0> _mary_kate_: r u aware of fedora/redhat
[23:03:21] <Ravenslay3r1> I'm going back to basics trying to learn the shell propperly ... so i'm trying to figure out which ones are used where.
[23:03:26] <kim0> _mary_kate_: so is 2008.x like fedora
[23:03:30] <_mary_kate_> kim0: last i checked, Fedora and RHEL don't have the same name
[23:03:57] <kim0> while S10U6 is like rhel
[23:04:06] <Triskelios> _mary_kate_: neither do solaris and opensolaris, though...
[23:04:16] <kim0> and SXCE is like rawhide .. which is fedora-development branch
[23:04:21] <kim0> hope I'm right :D
[23:04:34] <_mary_kate_> kim0: i don't think that's a useful comparison.  while some code from opensolaris might be backported to solaris, it's closed source, has its own code base and is not based on opensolaris
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[23:05:01] <_mary_kate_> Triskelios: well, i wasn't talking about solaris... rather opensolaris the OS and opensolaris the source code
[23:05:41] <kim0> ok .. can u describe the parent - child relationship of sxce sxde 2008.x ?
[23:06:00] <_mary_kate_> SXCE is an OS built from the opensolaris source code.  2008.05 is also an OS built from the opensolaris source code
[23:06:16] <_mary_kate_> SXDE doesn't exist anymore, but when it did, it was basically a version of SXCE released with a new name (and maybe a couple of extra bug fixes)
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[23:06:27] <Ravenslay3r1> Sun seems to like taking a single name 'Java', 'OpenSolaris', 'XVM' and using it to lable numerous possibly unrelated entities...
[23:06:29] <kim0> great they dropped one ;)
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[23:06:41] <Triskelios> SXCE is an evolution of older closed-source solaris after a snapshot of it was released as opensolaris
[23:07:03] <jonrafkind> ok my internet seems to work, I just dont seem to have dns
[23:07:17] <jonrafkind> how do I set up nameservers? when I try to run the networking admin thing it says nawm is enabled
[23:07:18] <Triskelios> jonrafkind: that's odd. does restarting nwam help?
[23:07:37] <jonrafkind> how do I restart it
[23:07:44] <Triskelios> jonrafkind: svcadm restart nwam
[23:08:10] <Ravenslay3r1> Triskelios: at one point i was running both indiana and SXCE boxes on the network, adn neither provided DNS by default
[23:08:18] <jonrafkind> restarted, but still no dns
[23:08:25] <Triskelios> Ravenslay3r1: that is not normal
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[23:08:35] <Triskelios> jonrafkind: svcadm disable nwam, svcadm enable network:physical:default and that will allow the older manual config to work
[23:08:46] <jonrafkind> yea I was doing that before. is that safe though?
[23:09:18] <jonrafkind> im not a solaris master so if I mess something up I wont be able to fix it
[23:09:30] <Triskelios> it's perfectly fine to use the non-nwam config - nwam really only benefits wireless users right now
[23:09:35] <jonrafkind> ok
[23:10:08] <jonrafkind> oh wait, nwam came back and gave me dns
[23:10:12] <jonrafkind> it just took a few seconds
[23:10:14] <jonrafkind> hooray!
[23:10:17] <Triskelios> er, typo up there, I meant network/physical:default
[23:10:18] <Triskelios> heh
[23:10:27] <jonrafkind> so it just doesnt work on startup for some reason
[23:10:58] <Triskelios> strange. I don't have too much experience using it with wired networking, though
[23:13:23] <TopBunny88> Is there a way to enlarge the screen?
[23:14:15] <vmlemon_> You want a magnifier app? Or something else?
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[23:15:12] <vmlemon_> Orca?
[23:15:26] <vmlemon_> gnome-mag?
[23:15:48] <vmlemon_> kmag?
[23:16:53] <jonrafkind> whats the equivalent of sudo?
[23:17:11] <Triskelios> compiz's enhanced zoom function rocks
[23:17:15] <Triskelios> jonrafkind: pfexec
[23:17:59] <jonrafkind> I could have sworn I used to use sudo in solaris 7. did it go away?
[23:18:05] <vmlemon_> su -c
[23:18:09] <vmlemon_> to run a command
[23:18:34] <vmlemon_> Or you can install sudo, if you want to
[23:18:35] <Triskelios> jonrafkind: sudo hadn't been written when solaris 7 was available
[23:18:49] <e^ipi> jonrafkind: pfexec is the new sudo
[23:19:01] <jonrafkind> such a memorable name :p
[23:19:17] <e^ipi> profile exec.
[23:19:20] <hrist> what does pf stand for?
[23:19:23] <hrist> oh :)
[23:19:23] <e^ipi> as in, execute with a profile
[23:19:31] <jonrafkind> why not just pfe then
[23:19:34] <e^ipi> man -s5 rbac for details
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[23:21:40] <hrist> jonrafkind: alias pfe=pfexec in your .(ba|k|z|c)shrc
[23:21:42] <hrist> ;)
[23:21:49] <jonrafkind> hehe, i just ln -s'd pfexec to sudo
[23:22:17] <Triskelios> jonrafkind: that might be bad if you ever install sudo as well
[23:22:41] <jonrafkind> its amusing(sad) that solaris still sticks to painfully unreadable commands
[23:23:03] <jonrafkind> Triskelios, oh I did a pkg search sudo but it didnt turn up anything
[23:23:35] <gh89316> sudo should be in solaris right away - at least on my SCXE b98 it is
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[23:24:29] <Triskelios> yeah, SUNWsudou/r. it's possible it hasn't been imported into IPS yet
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[23:25:26] <Dominic> jonrafkind: I hardly think your suggestion of 'pfe' is any more readable/logical than 'pfexec' for executing with a profile!
[23:25:33] <Triskelios> jonrafkind: I don't see how pfexec is any worse a name than sudo, both begin with a two letter initialism
[23:25:36] <jonrafkind> thats exactly my point!
[23:25:52] <jonrafkind> if pfexec is readable then so is pfe, and vice-versa
[23:26:23] <norman> maybe you should alias it to ohmygoodicanexecutethiscodewithrootprivileges ... maybe this is more obvious then pfexec or sudo ;)
[23:26:40] <hrist> norman: you forgot plx at the end ;)
[23:26:53] <Dominic> I don't think so, it then doesn't help you differentiate much between the rest of the pf-related commands.
[23:27:44] <jonrafkind> pfe2
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[23:27:57] <jonrafkind> if you can remember what 'pf' is surely you can remember which one the 2 is for
[23:28:03] <gh89316> I was wondering if someone can  help me. I've a laptop which is installed with XP and SCEX b98 and now I want to liveupgrade it to b101
[23:28:03] <gh89316> the laptop is partitioned to 1,5 GB primary for laptop recovery, 20 GB primary for xp, 30 GB primary for existing Solaris and still 60 GB free
[23:28:03] <gh89316> but if I look on Solaris fdisk I just see the disk which it is installed on. Any idea how I can add the rest?
[23:28:04] <gh89316> even tried to create a new unformated partition with Windows ... didn't work
[23:28:26] <TomJ> gh89316: you can make a new zpool in the extra partition
[23:28:32] <TomJ> that's the only option
[23:28:34] <TopBunny88> Will installing
[23:28:57] <Triskelios> jonrafkind: pf is the prefix for a family of commands; their individual names are more descriptive
[23:29:03] <jonrafkind> Dominic, whats your guess as to what pfbtofa does
[23:29:10] <jonrafkind> you too Triskelios
[23:29:14] <jonrafkind> withouto man'ing it
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[23:29:56] <gh89316> yes would be an idea but therefor I would need to see additionally to my existing c1t0d0 disk something like a c2t0d0 ?
[23:29:58] <Triskelios> jonrafkind: pfbtofa is not a pf command, it's pfb-to-fa from some font conversion package
[23:30:01] <TopBunny88> Will installing  SUNWgnome-media-mp3 allow me to play bacl mpeg an aac audio files?
[23:30:15] <jonrafkind> oh but suddenly using the same prefix is part of a different family of commands. gee thats not confusing at all!
[23:30:41] <TomJ> it's part of Groff, it's not even a solaris command
[23:30:53] <TomJ> as in, not solaris base
[23:30:54] <Triskelios> jonrafkind: that software wasn't originally from solaris
[23:31:29] <Triskelios> TopBunny88: mp3 only, as the name suggests
[23:31:55] <jonrafkind> yea but when thinking of a new name for something you should always consider that someone else might pick a close name as well
[23:32:13] <Triskelios> jonrafkind: the person who wrote that likely didn't use solaris
[23:32:53] <dustman> jonrafkind: like tracepath instead of conventional traceroute?
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[23:33:07] <TopBunny88> Triskelios:What do i need tyo install in ored to be able to play back my apple itunes collectins
[23:33:34] <jonrafkind> oh I see, so you're saying that solaris is allowed to pick whatever commands it wants and assume everyone else in the world should work around it
[23:33:38] <Triskelios> TopBunny88: is it DRMed? you'd have to strip the DRM first
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[23:34:29] <Triskelios> jonrafkind: well, no. nobody can do anything about the fact that these commands have conflicting names
[23:34:31] <Auralis> jonrafkind: what, like linux?
[23:34:32] <TomJ> jonrafkind: if you can't remember the names of the commands you could always use a simpler operating system, like Dos
[23:34:47] <dustman> jonrafkind: don't assume all oses are linux-like
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[23:34:53] <TopBunny88> Triskelios: Ar there any guied drm striping applications for opensolaris?
[23:35:10] <jonrafkind> so if I renamed all the commands to numbers, like 1, 2, 3, 4, you would still say its ok becuase you are supposed to remember what they do
[23:35:20] <jonrafkind> heaven forbid 'pfexec' was named 'profile-exec'
[23:35:27] <jonrafkind> all im saying is abbreviations are terrible
[23:35:38] <dustman> and what?
[23:35:42] <TomJ> jonrafkind: then you're really going to hate any UNIX or UNIX-like OS and, as I said, you should use something else
[23:35:46] <dustman> make aliases
[23:36:05] <Triskelios> jonrafkind: and ifconfig should be called interface-config, and so on...
[23:36:05] <jonrafkind> yes aliases are fine and I would make them, but there are a gazillion commands that I have to figure out first
[23:36:14] <hrist> ooooooh yeah
[23:36:23] <e^ipi> jonrafkind: the abrev. reduce keystrokes
[23:36:24] <hrist> grandunifiedbootloader-install :p
[23:36:24] <jonrafkind> I already memorized most of the linux commands, but even there its just as stupid
[23:36:29] <e^ipi> in time, you learn to love them
[23:36:33] <CosmicDJ> hrist: hehe
[23:36:37] <hrist> e^ipi: pfe<TAB> :p
[23:36:38] <jonrafkind> aha, the old keystroke argument. that is fun because bash has tab-completion
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[23:36:41] <dustman> jonrafkind: read /topic
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[23:36:51] <jonrafkind> yea, the rosetta thing I saw it
[23:36:52] <Triskelios> e^ipi: not necessarily love
[23:36:53] <CosmicDJ> alias ls=list_directory_contents
[23:36:56] <vmlemon_> listdirectories
[23:37:03] <TomJ> show_me_my_files_pls
[23:37:21] <jonrafkind> none of those things are more to type than 'ls' if you hit the first two keystrokes and then <tab>
[23:37:27] <CosmicDJ> jonrafkind: unix(tm) existed before bash...
[23:37:42] <TomJ> list_files -all -longstyle -reverse_sort_by_time -Recursive
[23:37:45] <hrist> emacs would be messy, eight_megabytes_and_continuosly_swapping and all those other names :D
[23:37:49] <jonrafkind> which is why I give ls and friends a grandfather pass
[23:37:58] <dustman> lol
[23:38:05] <vmlemon_> concatencatefiles, anyone?
[23:38:13] <hrist> vmlemon_: and tac?
[23:38:15] <TomJ> im_just_too_stupid_for_this_system
[23:38:22] <vmlemon_> unixtimesharingname...
[23:38:24] <hrist> selifetacnetacnoc
[23:38:25] <TomJ> concatanatefilesbackwards
[23:38:29] <TomJ> obviously
[23:38:39] <xRaich[o]2x> wtf?
[23:38:47] <TomJ> xRaich[o]2x: I think you mean What The Fuck
[23:38:47] <jonrafkind> its not about being stupid, its about instantly knowing what the command is supposed to do from its filename
[23:38:50] <CosmicDJ> jonrafkind: you don't like tab-completing abbr. commands? stay away from cmdline/terminal and just point and click on your gnome desktop
[23:39:07] <dustman> xRaich[o]2x: real program from old bsd games :)
[23:39:09] <jonrafkind> im saying when you have tab completion you dont need abbreviated commands
[23:39:21] <jonrafkind> because tab completion erases any benefit of having shorter command names
[23:39:31] <Auralis> no, it does not
[23:39:32] <jonrafkind> without tab completion the shell would be extremely painful to use
[23:39:41] <TomJ> jonrafkind: normally one reads the manual the describes the thing one wants to do - such as "The Role Based Access Control system" and it tells you the names of the commands you're going to use.
[23:39:46] <CosmicDJ> jonrafkind: can you tab-complete when writing a shell script? when you system() in a c-prog?
[23:39:51] <TomJ> Rather than just looking at a list of 1000 commands and trying to understand them based on their names
[23:39:51] <dustman> ugu, very wide screens are nice
[23:40:08] <vmlemon_> Get a video wall for reading the manual pages ;)
[23:40:10] <jonrafkind> CosmicDJ, well vim has tab completion, so yes
[23:40:18] <vmlemon_> Or hire the screen in an IMAX cinema ;)
[23:40:19] <Triskelios> jonrafkind: CosmicDJ has a good point. commands are also a programming interface, for better or worse
[23:40:36] <jonrafkind> ok, and I have tab completion when I program too
[23:40:42] <jonrafkind> otherwise that would be painful as well
[23:40:55] <Auralis> just buy a mac
[23:40:56] <hrist> why? just because you can't remember names you used in your program?
[23:41:07] <jonrafkind> why tab completion? becuase the names are long to type
[23:41:11] <hrist> Auralis: they even count for you :D
[23:41:17] <dustman> Auralis: that is a bad advise
[23:41:25] <jonrafkind> short variable names lead to unreadable code
[23:41:29] <vmlemon_> Just wait for hci_mindcontrol, that'll solve your woes
[23:41:34] <Auralis> why? before osx it didn't even had a terminal
[23:41:41] <Auralis> problem solved
[23:41:52] <dustman> it has it in programs
[23:41:57] <hrist> vmlemon_: nonono! don't use abbrevs! what is hci? human controll interface?
[23:42:03] <vmlemon_> Haha
[23:42:14] <hrist> :)
[23:42:24] <jbit> human computer interaction iirc
[23:42:36] <TomJ> you mean if you recall correctly
[23:42:38] <CosmicDJ> jonrafkind: ok, you don't like it; rename them and create your own distribution; it's all OSS
[23:42:39] <vmlemon_> destroymypartitiontableandcreateanewmasterbootrecord
[23:42:47] <hrist> vmlemon_: windows?
[23:42:49] <hrist> :p
[23:43:08] <jbit> TomJ: it's an abreviation like cp/ls/etc ;P
[23:43:09] <jonrafkind> i only have enough energy to complain about it on irc ;)
[23:43:20] <dustman> this should go to bash.org
[23:43:23] <vmlemon_> Wait, It's Now Doing Other Wacky SStuff
[23:43:25] <vmlemon_> *Stuff
[23:44:19] <dustman> jonrafkind: what's irc? we don't understand you
[23:44:31] <vmlemon_> Or just use Macintosh Operating System X 10.5, if you have problems ;)
[23:44:32] <jonrafkind> hardy har
[23:44:36] <dustman> use tab-completion
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[23:49:45] <TomJ> by the way, profile-execute woudl be a lot more pain to tab-complete.  with pfexec I can be reasonably certain that pfe<tab> will do it.  with profile-execeute,  I am going to have to type profile-e<tab>  or pro<tab>-e<tab>  to avoid clashing with, for example,  profile-shell,
[23:50:15] <TomJ> actual pro<tab> wont do it because that will conflict with project-add, project-modify, proxy-manager, etc..
[23:50:23] <e^ipi> you and your "logic"
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[23:51:34] <TopBunny98> Are there ant unix based graphical mediafile conversuions tolls ?
[23:51:39] <TomJ> and typing out /root/userfiles/superuserbinaries/profile-execute is just going to hurt.
[23:51:48] <jonrafkind> TomJ, no, you type p<tab> then more stuff <tab>
[23:51:52] <jonrafkind> have you ever used tab-completion?
[23:51:57] <TopBunny98> Are there ant unix based graphical mediafile conversuions tools ?
[23:52:02] <jonrafkind> you dont type everything up until the <tab> part
[23:52:44] <e^ipi> why save yourself keystrokes when you can double them with <tab>
[23:52:46] <Auralis> which is significantly more crap then just typing it the shorter name in the first place, even without tab completion
[23:53:05] <TomJ> jonrafkind: what do you suppose will happen after you have hit the two keystrokes p followed by tab?
[23:53:06] <jonrafkind> thats true, but if its a common command then you should alias it personally
[23:53:11] <jonrafkind> i alias 'cd ..' to s, because I type it a lot
[23:53:30] <jonrafkind> with p<tab> it shows a million commands, but if you type pf<tab> then you get further.
[23:53:46] <jonrafkind> you were saying you would type profile-e<tab>, but no, pr<tab>o<tab> might do it
[23:53:46] <TomJ> no, with p<tab><tab> it shows a million commands.  p<tab> does nothing.
[23:54:00] <jonrafkind> yea.. good work
[23:54:11] <hrist> TomJ: asks for confirmation here :>
[23:54:15] <e^ipi> this is a really stupid discussion
[23:54:21] <xRaich[o]2x> ack
[23:54:23] <hrist> e^ipi: it sure is :>
[23:54:38] <e^ipi> UNIX is what it is, wishing that design decisions were different solves nothing
[23:54:44] <TomJ> jonrafkind: pr<tab> will do nothing, because you have - according ot your system- profile-execute, profile-shell, and project-add.  so you need to type at least profile- or project- before you tab knows which you're after.
[23:54:45] <e^ipi> if you don't like the way it was designed, use something else
[23:54:50] <hrist> but don't you feel the need to type grandunifiedbootloader-install everytime you want to use grub-install? ;)
[23:55:12] <jonrafkind> TomJ, no, prof<tab> will give you profile- at least
[23:55:42] <TomJ> ok, so prof<tab>-e<tab  which is one of the options I mentioned.  as opposed to pfe<tab>
[23:55:52] <jonrafkind> prof<tab>e<tab>
[23:56:02] <TomJ> you're forgetting the command 'profiles'
[23:56:10] <jonrafkind> oh yea you're right
[23:56:29] <jonrafkind> I dont mind 2-3 extra keystrokes
[23:56:36] <hrist> we also need bots with names for all words to have tabcompletion in our irc clients
[23:56:39] <jonrafkind> if I don't have to memorize some arcane commands
[23:57:01] <TomJ> Those of us who use our systems quickly effectively do mind those keystrokes, and seem to have little difficult memorising the commands
[23:57:10] <TomJ> When you have used them a bunch of times, they are almost automatically memorised
[23:57:17] <jonrafkind> you're assuming I dont use my system quickly
[23:57:21] <TomJ> And when you havent used them often, you probably still need to look up arguments/help on them anyway
[23:57:26] <jonrafkind> you make lots of assumptions about me
[23:57:39] <TomJ> i'm assuming you certainly wouldn't if your plan was implemented; what you do now I have no idea
[23:58:09] <TopBunny98> Hpw does one configure mutt to check a post office protocall version 3 server/
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[23:58:33] <TomJ> TopBunny98: there's a #mutt
[23:58:50] <TomJ> I seem to recall it's easy enough but havent done it in many years
[23:58:58] <SunTzuTech> not to mention google
[23:59:01] <hrist> lol popv3-server :D
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