[00:00:03] <loquitus_of_borg> So I grabbed STDCXX from the kdesolaris directory on cvsdude... any idea how to actually build and install it?
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[00:04:31] <palowoda> loquitus_of_borg: You know http://www.bionicmutton.org/solaris/ might have them built already.
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[00:10:21] <loquitus_of_borg> palowoda: how do I install these? pkgtool?
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[00:12:46] <palowoda> loquitus_of_borg: My guess is you would have to pkgsend them to a repo with Indiana.  Than install, PITA.  SXCE seems like a better platform for delvelopment in this case.
[00:13:35] <loquitus_of_borg> palowoda. what does that mean, to "pkgsend them to repo"? what is PITA?
[00:13:54] <palowoda> Ughh I get tired of IPS explainations.
[00:14:32] <steleman> loquitus_of_borg: you need to install the new JDS CBE
[00:14:46] <steleman> loquitus_of_borg: the spec files at cvsdude/kdesolaris work with the new JDS CBE
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[00:42:54] <coffman> lo
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[00:43:35] <coffman> is there a reason why opensolaris 2xxx.xx means it is a good idea to reinstall packages that i removed when im doing pkg image-update?
[00:43:46] <coffman> thats pretty damm stupid
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[00:47:31] *** comay changes topic to "SXCE 99, ON 100, IPS 99 || Step one: see if SAG answers your question: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/coll/47.16 || The answer to "I do $foo on *ux, how do I do it on Solaris" is http://bhami.com/rosetta.html || Clipboard: http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca"
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[00:49:25] <e^ipi> coffman, *shrug* file a bug
[00:50:29] <alanc> or ask comay while he's here
[00:51:30] <coffman> comay: is there a reason why opensolaris 2xxx.xx means it is a good idea to reinstall packages that i removed when im doing pkg image-update?
[00:53:12] <e^ipi> i thought that was still sch's domain
[00:53:21] <comay> you're running into bug 95
[00:53:45] <comay> er, bug 3398
[00:54:34] <alanc> e^ipi: IPS is a much bigger projects than one person alone can do, it's been more people than sch for a long time - barts, danek, comay, shawn walker, and several more
[00:57:27] <e^ipi> *shrug* hence the bug queue i thought but w/e
[00:57:31] <comay> coffman, you can "pkg uninstall slim_install" and then you would see those packages come back
[01:01:47] <CIA-25> Rod Evans <Rod.Evans at Sun dot COM>: 6754965 introduce the SF1_SUNW_ADDR32 bit in software capabilities, PSARC/2008/622 32-bit Address Restriction Software Capabilities Flag
[01:01:58] <CIA-25> John Forte <John.Forte at Sun dot COM>: 6745433 Merge NWS consolidation into OS/Net consolidation
[01:03:10] <loquitus_of_borg> What do you folks think of building a cross-compiler, where I would build my software on Linux x86 to run on OpenSolaris x86? Is there any reason that this will be particularly difficult, or impossible?
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[01:03:41] <coffman> comay: you mean if i uninstall slim_install, the packages i removed before i did pkg image-update will be removed?
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[01:04:03] <e^ipi> loquitus_of_borg, because xcompilers are hard, particularly when the two OS's are not the same
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[01:04:11] <e^ipi> linking to libc and what have you causes issues
[01:04:15] <mib_sb9lz9> uh
[01:04:36] <mib_sb9lz9> is there a way on opensoalris to have the netmask displayed as 255.255.255.0 instead fo fffff0000
[01:04:42] <mib_sb9lz9> etc.
[01:04:50] <e^ipi> a linux/x86 machine xcompiling for a linux/ppc machine works reasonably well... linux/x86 to solaris/whatever is a bit more trouble
[01:05:24] <comay> coffman, no i mean if you manually remove slim_install you won't see the issue you described anymore
[01:05:48] <comay> however, any packages that were pulled as part of image-update that you don't want you still need to uninstall one more time
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[01:11:16] <loquitus_of_borg> e^ipi: what about linux/x86 to solaris/x86?
[01:11:39] <e^ipi> loquitus_of_borg, i just covered that case
[01:11:56] <e^ipi> because of the difference in systems it's quite difficult
[01:12:19] <loquitus_of_borg> e^ipi: you said solaris/whatever. does that mean solaris/x86 is no easier?
[01:12:20] <e^ipi> i've tried it before
[01:12:21] <e^ipi> it was painful
[01:12:24] <loquitus_of_borg> darmn
[01:12:38] <e^ipi> just chuck solaris on your build box
[01:12:47] <e^ipi> xen works pretty well
[01:13:21] <coffman> comay: this also applys to slim_cd ? because im quite certain i removed slim_install
[01:13:42] <coffman>  pkg list|grep -i slim
[01:13:44] <coffman> slim_cd                                       0.5.11-0.98     installed  u---
[01:14:05] <e^ipi> a heterogeneous linux build cluster is relatively easy to make... a cross operating system compile cluster is /significantly/ harder to get working
[01:15:50] <loquitus_of_borg> e^ipi: problem is I am getting a zillion different leads on how to resolve my build woes on OpenSolaris. Some of these leads are frustratingly void of documentation on what actually do to (like one lead was to build and install stdcxx, yet the link has no help on doing so). gcc itself is massively broken (i tried the test release from blastwave and it won't even build a hello world app!). Sun Studio has some crazy build pro
[01:18:10] <comay> coffman, don't rememeber about slim_cd; but it shouldn't hurt to leave it there
[01:18:28] <comay> unlike slim_install, it doesn't pull packages back into your system
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[01:26:59] <coffman> hmpf
[01:27:00] <coffman> well
[01:27:02] <coffman> it did
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[01:40:13] <mib_sb9lz9> if i make changes to /etc/hosts on solaris
[01:40:21] <mib_sb9lz9> I dotn need to restart networking rigth
[01:40:27] <mib_sb9lz9> they jsut work
[01:40:32] <mib_sb9lz9> just-
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[01:42:55] <e^ipi> you could also just use a nameserver
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[01:53:57] <rpage> i just received the opensolaris LIVE CD from in the mail, what is the username and passwd i use to login
[01:54:03] <rpage> and what is the root passwd
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[01:56:00] <e^ipi> jack:jack
[01:56:14] <e^ipi> i don't remember if the livecd has the RBAC profiles set up properly
[01:56:28] <rpage> so how do i login
[01:56:40] <e^ipi> ...
[01:58:36] <alanc> it should autologin, if that doesn't work, user jack, password jack
[01:58:53] <alanc> root password opensolaris
[01:59:03] <rpage> ok jack jack works
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[01:59:15] <rpage> where did you get that name from
[01:59:17] <loquitus_of_borg> anybody know how to install FOSS packages on opensolaris?
[01:59:23] <loquitus_of_borg> such as at: http://www.bionicmutton.org/solaris/
[01:59:45] <CIA-25> Matthew Ahrens <Matthew.Ahrens at Sun dot COM>: 6333409 traversal code should be able to issue multiple reads in parallel, 6418042 want traversal in depth-first pre-order for quicker 'zfs send', 6757112 zvol dump code is extra complicated, 6725668 want ::zfs_blkstats to show block type stats after scrub, 6725675 dmu traverse code has extraneous features, 6725680 P2CROSS is confusing to use, 6725698 zvol dump device should always be 128k, 6729696 sync causes sc
[01:59:49] <CIA-25> Roger A. Faulkner <Roger.Faulkner at Sun dot COM>: PSARC 2008/622 32-bit Address Restriction Software Capabilities Flag, 6755162 ADDR32 software capability: restrict a 64-bit process to the lower 32 bits of the address space
[01:59:57] <alanc> from the docs on opensolaris.com and from seeing the answer the past 100 times that question was asked in this channel
[02:00:31] <_mary_kate_> 6755162 sounds interesting.  what's it for?
[02:00:32] <e^ipi> loquitus_of_borg, by reading the 'pkgadd' man page
[02:00:57] <e^ipi> _mary_kate_, i was wondering that same thing
[02:01:02] <alanc> _mary_kate_: benchmarks
[02:01:39] <_mary_kate_> hmm, apparently it lets the compiler store pointers in 4 bytes
[02:01:42] <alanc> lets you use the extra registers of AMD64 mode without doubling the memory used by all your pointers
[02:02:14] <e^ipi> hey, that's actually useful
[02:02:16] <_mary_kate_> VMS can do that, except it lets you change the pointer size in code in the same program
[02:02:25] <_mary_kate_> i always hated it, much increased chance for accidental binary incompatibility
[02:02:59] <rpage> alanc, can you install opensolaris from the LIVE CD
[02:03:16] <e^ipi> yes, you can...
[02:03:22] <e^ipi> kinna the point
[02:05:16] <alanc> rpage: yes, there should be an install icon on the desktop
[02:05:34] <_mary_kate_> opensolaris.org seems to have all the useful links removed from the front page
[02:05:38] <rpage> opensoalris seem like linux
[02:05:41] <_mary_kate_> where are the ARC cases now?
[02:06:01] <alanc> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/
[02:06:49] <alanc> I don't think you can actually use this until the compiler side goes in too, since it has to know it's generating AMD64 code with 32-bit pointers
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[02:06:58] <_mary_kate_> yes
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[02:07:01] <_mary_kate_> i was just curious to read about it
[02:07:30] <e^ipi> rpage, that's a pretty superficial assessment
[02:08:01] <rpage> lol
[02:08:27] <rpage> since this is a live cd, if i download any files where will it store it?
[02:08:41] <e^ipi> non-permanent memory
[02:08:53] <e^ipi> or a USB stick if you go that route
[02:09:56] <rpage> ok
[02:13:51] <loquitus_of_borg> e^ipi: I tried pkgadd -d foss_filename.tar.gz and it keeps failing...
[02:14:19] <e^ipi> of course it did, pkgadd doesn't take a gzipped tar file as an operand
[02:14:20] 
[02:14:20] <freetown>   In his review, Gary Sims of Linux.com finds OpenSolaris to be ?a production-ready OS that works equally well on desktops and servers.? http://www.linux.com/feature/147358?cid=e7154. Contrary to perhaps the view of many here.
[02:15:20] <loquitus_of_borg> e^ipi: I tried it on the ungzipped tar as well
[02:16:09] <e^ipi> think about that one for a second and answer the question "what about pkgadd makes you assume it takes a tar file as an operand at all" ?
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[02:18:38] <loquitus_of_borg> e^ipi: I have used it before but I think that I had to ungzip them.
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[02:18:55] <alanc> pkgadd handles packages in either directories (i.e. untarred) or it's own customized cpio format, but not in tar files
[02:19:49] <_mary_kate_> oh good
[02:20:05] <_mary_kate_> the addr32 arc case is like one of the 10 from 2008 that's closed
[02:20:18] <loquitus_of_borg> alanc: ok. well I also tried to uncompress it all to foobar/ and provided foobar/ as the parameter after -d
[02:21:28] <loquitus_of_borg> Keeps saying no packages were found. Can you give me an example?
[02:21:33] <alanc> when handling packages in directories, the argument to -d is the parent directory (i.e. if you have packages/SUNWfoobar/... then you pkgadd -d packages SUNWfoobar )
[02:24:19] <loquitus_of_borg> Thank you, alanc.
[02:24:32] <loquitus_of_borg> Much easier by example
[02:24:41] <loquitus_of_borg> I did not gather that from the man page.
[02:24:51] <_mary_kate_> what's PSARC 2008/575?  something like Linux LVS?
[02:24:59] <_mary_kate_> (why are all the interesting cases closed?)
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[02:27:15] <jbk> so how long has it been now since the ss11->12 switch for ON?
[02:27:27] <e^ipi> a week or two ?
[02:27:36] <jbk> it feels longer :)
[02:27:46] <e^ipi> could be
[02:28:07] <jbk> hmm actually it should be in the flag days shouldn't it?
[02:28:11] <e^ipi> yea
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[02:31:45] <e^ipi> hey, an hour and a half before i find out who my government is
[02:31:48] <e^ipi> neato
[02:31:51] <jbk> actually
[02:31:58] <jbk> the announcement came ouut aug 6th
[02:32:07] <alanc> it's been about 24 hours since the ss12 -> ss12-with-newer-patches switch for ON
[02:32:22] <jbk> alanc: i mean ss11->ss12
[02:32:41] <alanc> I know, was just saying, since not everyone noticed the update yesterday to a new patch set
[02:32:52] <jbk> i'm just a bit frustrated
[02:33:19] <alanc> to fix the "lint eats all your memory and takes forever to run" and "mdb can't read your stack info" bugs
[02:33:27] <jbk> as i made the mistake (and there is no other way to say it) of trusting 'sun' (their marketing message) and giving opensolaris/indiana a try
[02:33:38] <sstallion> bda: around ?
[02:34:01] <jbk> basically sun says 'use opensolaris (indiana)', but in reality, if you want to get work done, go sxce
[02:34:15] <sstallion> jbk: ss12 started with onnv_100
[02:36:25] <sstallion> jbk: I feel your pain. I've spent almost a week screwing with re_recv... the chipset is *not* behaving itself whatsoever
[02:36:33] <sstallion> getting junk out of PIO
[02:37:42] <sstallion> anyone around who happens to have a somewhat recent build of sxce on parallels ?
[02:38:41] <jbk> i'm half tempted to reply to a message on on-discuss about it, but really what's the point.. those who are in a position to fix things (I think it's a management/resource allocation issue from what I can see externally) will do anything about it (since it's a problem that only sun, not the rest of the community) can fix (short of the rest of the community forking ON, which would be even worse)
[02:39:12] <sstallion> jbk: what are you having issues with ?
[02:39:24] <jbk> working with ON on indiana
[02:39:28] <sstallion> ouch
[02:39:42] <jbk> basically it's a nightmare wrapped in an clusterfuck wrapped in a pile of dogshit
[02:39:47] <sstallion> *nod*
[02:39:50] <sstallion> why ?
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[02:44:39] <jbk> well it's not 'supported', getting a 'correct' copy of ss12 binaries is painful (to put it mildly), no one who can fix it from a technical point of view has the time (most likely) or inclination (also possible) to fix the situation
[02:45:39] <sstallion> sorry
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[02:45:44] <sstallion> I meant why put yourself through the pain ?
[02:46:16] <jbk> well i thought i'd give it a chance
[02:46:42] <alanc> jbk: I'll try poking the people I think should be getting the compilers posted again
[02:47:00] <alanc> there's been a bit of confusion internally about who was doing that
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[02:47:48] <jbk> perhaps it's just my personality :)
[02:49:05] <jbk> i'm the type at least where i work, if there's a problem, i'm fine with letting the 'responsible' group take care of it, but if they won't, i'm perfectly fine doing it myself -- my view if there's a problem, it needs to be fixed, and i'm fine with doing it myself if that's what it takes
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[02:49:28] <sstallion> jbk: gotcha.
[02:49:29] <jbk> so i hate 'it's broken, it's not being fixed, and no you can't do anything about it' :)
[02:49:38] <ky-san> jbk++
[02:50:06] <dark_matter> question, has anyone here tried building nevada99 using virutal box as a guest OS on a OS X host?
[02:50:17] <sstallion> christ I'm really getting sick of watching hex dumps
[02:50:42] <sstallion> dark_matter: indiana or sxce ?
[02:50:48] <dark_matter> sxce
[02:51:37] <sstallion> dark_matter: what is the issu e?
[02:51:44] <dark_matter> Since vxbox only supports 32 bit clients on OS X at the moment this appears problematic.
[02:52:30] <e^ipi> hmm?
[02:52:34] <e^ipi> why would it be problematic ?
[02:52:54] <dark_matter> dmake: Warning: Command failed for target `obj64/igmp.o', a lot of obj64 failures on build.
[02:53:21] <dark_matter> this is with studio12 and debugging.
[02:53:36] <sstallion> what does isainfo report ?
[02:53:56] <e^ipi> file a bug, it should build
[02:54:05] <dark_matter> i386
[02:54:22] <sstallion> I've seen similar on parallels builds where it attempts to build 64-bit when booted in a 32-bit kernel
[02:54:53] <dark_matter> yes I think, I need to tweak it, is there anyway to specify a 32 bit only kernel?
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[02:55:36] <sstallion> dark_matter: echo $MACH
[02:55:49] <dark_matter> not set currently
[02:56:33] <sstallion> do it from the same shell you ran bldenv
[02:56:40] <sstallion> also check MACHTYPE
[02:58:08] <dark_matter> MACH = i385 MACHTYPE = "unset"
[02:58:18] <dark_matter> that should read i386...  ;)
[02:58:44] <sstallion> one sec, let me check the Makefiles... there might be something you can do locally to override it for now
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[02:59:45] <sstallion> try this:
[02:59:54] <sstallion> BUILD64='#'; export BUILD64
[03:00:32] <sstallion> that should disable the behavior you are seeing, but file a bug anyway
[03:00:46] <dark_matter> ok I will try it thanks.
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[03:11:33] <loquitus_of_borg> Has anybody here installed the FOSS release of stdcxx? I installed it and I can't even get a hello world app to work!
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[03:59:21] <CIA-25> John Forte <John.Forte at Sun dot COM>: 6745433 Merge NWS consolidation into OS/Net consolidation (fix sparc build)
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[04:03:34] <sstallion> !!
[04:03:38] * sstallion dances with jbk.
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[04:28:44] <mshadle> would there be any reason to change default snv_98 zfs mirror rpool / dataset name stuff?
[04:29:01] <mshadle> zfs pool name: rpool  root dataset: snv_98
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[04:31:09] <sstallion> mshadle: can you elaborate ?
[04:31:24] <sstallion> as in why wouldn't you want the defaults in the SXCE text install ?
[04:31:39] <sstallion> the defaults are very reasonable... I wouldn't change them unless you had a very good reason
[04:31:39] <mshadle> yes.. liveupgrade works properly and would rename to snv_whateverelse later on?
[04:31:51] <sstallion> lu would create a new dataset, yes
[04:31:54] <mshadle> ok
[04:32:03] <sstallion> rpool/ROOT/snv_OLD will stay intact
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[04:32:17] <sstallion> also, don't split up /var
[04:32:24] <sstallion> that will cause some headaches later on
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[04:33:11] <mshadle> i kept the default of "keep on the same partition"
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[05:37:06] <moazamraja> anyone know where I can b100 before it's been fully QA'ed?
[05:37:18] <moazamraja> (in bootable ISO format? :P )
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[05:41:47] <moazamraja> actually, isn't b100 scheduled for release on...10/16?
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[05:59:02] <codestr0m> I see snv_99 dropped with python25.. I have general and bug questions for anyone interested in specifically libffi/ctypes
[05:59:22] <CIA-25> James C. McPherson <James.McPherson at Sun dot COM>: 6754624 fwflash's IB isn't as bytesexy as it should be
[05:59:34] <Chipdancer> old news ;)
[05:59:42] <ky-san> bytesexy?
[06:00:06] <ky-san> what's that?
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[06:00:28] <bigjohnto>  anyone have any knowledge with Application Server upgrade from 8.x to 9.1 update2? Everytime i try to upgrade the darn installer timesout
[06:00:29] <Chipdancer> I've just prodded jmcp to come and defne it himself ;)
[06:01:47] <ky-san> heh
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[06:15:59] <codestr0m> as super evil as LD_LIBRARY_PATH is... for very large exec.. does it possibly provide any real gains in start-up times vs -R?
[06:16:24] <e^ipi> don't use it.
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[06:16:31] <e^ipi>  just link your stuff right
[06:16:45] <codestr0m> e^ipi: that's not my question and I am aware how to link stuff right now
[06:16:56] <codestr0m> I'm asking if it can provide a start-up performance gain
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[06:17:32] <e^ipi> no, it's more likely to cause it to slow down given the extra work it's got to do
[06:17:44] <e^ipi> but i doubt that anyone's run any benchmarks on something so silly
[06:17:52] <codestr0m> e^ipi: for your gsoc project.. where are the patches for that. I'm curious if you don't mind
[06:18:08] <e^ipi> they're on the site
[06:18:12] <codestr0m> k
[06:18:57] <e^ipi> http://opensolaris.org/os/project/emancipation/tasks/libc_i18n/
[06:19:05] <e^ipi> distributed as an .hg changeset
[06:20:16] <codestr0m> I have no plans to use it, but was curious.. I thought LD_LIBRARY_PATH is hard coded and thus would avoid the runtime lookup.. I see some of the binaries have *a lot* of extraneous paths added (probably in some cases for good reason)
[06:21:57] <codestr0m> e^ipi: I've got a trivial patch that adds an amd64/Makefiles to libhal.. alanc, myself and possibly others will need this integrated with O/N gate.. is there a proxy commit system in place?
[06:25:34] <sstallion> codestr0m: what? why would setting LD_LIBRARY_PATH give you any kind of a speed gain?
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[06:26:02] <codestr0m> sstallion: it was a question. I just assumed it avoided a look-up and did a hard coded path
[06:26:15] <codestr0m> I was wrong. answered my question :)
[06:26:18] <sstallion> codestr0m: if you want to contribute to ON you will need an ARC case, you will need a sponsor, and you will need a patch.
[06:26:32] <sstallion> umm, you do know what an .so is right ?
[06:26:46] <codestr0m> sstallion: yes of course I know what a .so is
[06:26:51] <codestr0m> I've just never used LD_LIBRARY_PATH before
[06:27:31] <sstallion> LD_LIBRARY_PATH should be a last resort only. Either link correctly with -R, use $ORIGIN, or use elfedit to correct bad paths
[06:27:47] <codestr0m> sstallion: I know this. it wasn't my original question. thanks
[06:28:16] <codestr0m> I was curious because of things like ldd -s /usr/bin/ls
[06:28:29] <sstallion> why would that be curious ?
[06:28:40] <sstallion> cmd is no longer statically linked
[06:28:51] <sstallion> (and hasn't been for a while now)
[06:29:07] <codestr0m> aha. ok
[06:29:26] <sstallion> static links don't make much sense in modern systems
[06:29:29] <sstallion> its a waste of diskspace
[06:30:15] <sstallion> if you have lib on a separate slice from the rest of root, you deserve the pain :)
[06:31:09] <codestr0m> I'm not going to argue this.. -L/R avoids this
[06:31:46] <codestr0m> from there it's just a matter of ensuring the correct order in some cases with linking
[06:32:06] <sstallion> eh ?
[06:32:16] <sstallion> order is generally only important when you are statically linking
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[06:34:26] <codestr0m> sstallion: I had to  -lreadline -lncurses failed as the other way around failed in my env.. it's for py25 and I'm pretty sure static is disabled by default
[06:34:59] <sstallion> which compiler are you using ?
[06:35:00] <codestr0m> it's 6:30. that didn't make sense.  -lreadline -lncurses == correct. the other way failed
[06:35:08] <codestr0m> SSE from july
[06:35:19] <sstallion> why are you building with SSE ?
[06:35:49] <codestr0m> specifically it supports the inline asm in many cases better than SS12
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[06:36:10] <sstallion> ... because inline asm is critical for portable applications ...
[06:36:41] <codestr0m> because inline asm makes it a lot easier to hack the liboil and libffi and other things
[06:38:41] <sstallion> I guess I fail to see the connection
[06:39:35] <sstallion> (liboil makes sense, but not libffi)
[06:39:51] * jmcp keeps wanting to write a libffs
[06:39:56] <codestr0m> eh? libffi has a ton of inline asm
[06:40:23] <sstallion> jmcp: bytesexy... nice ;)
[06:40:26] <ky-san> jmcp: what does bytesexy stand for? ;)
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[06:40:40] <jmcp> ky-san: it doesn't stand for anything in particular
[06:40:42] <jmcp> sstallion: :)
[06:40:44] <sstallion> codestr0m: why?
[06:40:51] <sstallion> there is no reason to implement that using inline asm
[06:41:05] <jmcp> ky-san: when I was refactoring the IB support from old fwflash to new pluggable fwflash, I got some byteswapping operations wrong
[06:41:25] <codestr0m> sstallion: rh did it this way.. that's how it is..
[06:41:33] <sstallion> jmcp: meh I feel your pain. I spent all day today adding twiddle bits to a packed mblk header
[06:41:45] <jmcp> yuck!
[06:41:48] <sstallion> yeah
[06:42:12] <sstallion> its fast, but I suspect I earned a very special place in portability hell today
[06:42:18] <jmcp> ky-san: one of my group's traditions is trying to find funny bug synopses
[06:42:28] <jmcp> sstallion: as much as Garrett with oss ?
[06:42:39] <sstallion> nope... I saw his posts today - nasty stuff.
[06:42:52] <jmcp> lucky for you, very unlucky for him
[06:43:05] <jmcp> I shudder at the thought of what he's trying to be compatible with, however
[06:43:09] <sstallion> the man deserves a nobel prize for the amount of work thats gone into audio lately
[06:43:15] <sstallion> no kidding
[06:43:27] <sstallion> i'll stick with networking :)
[06:43:30] <jmcp> agreed 100%
[06:44:16] <sstallion> codestr0m: I will be very frank with you. A lot of people have gone to some pretty big lengths to ensure most code is portable - adding gobs of inline asm is a surefire way to get a patch rejected.
[06:44:53] <sstallion> if the kernel does not have to resort to inline asm for every op, then userland sure as hell shouldn't either.
[06:45:03] <jmcp> agreed
[06:45:04] <jbk> evening
[06:45:07] <jmcp> hi jbk
[06:45:08] <sstallion> heya jbk
[06:45:47] <sstallion> jmcp: finally sorted out my PIO issue on RTL8029 on sparc
[06:45:56] <jmcp> good!
[06:45:59] <sstallion> its an odd ball (and no wonder that masa didn't support it in ni)
[06:46:03] <jmcp> heh
[06:46:12] <sstallion> anything over 8-bit pio throws a bus error
[06:46:20] * jmcp wonders where he left his capacity for surprise about RTL8xxx
[06:46:38] <codestr0m> sstallion: this isn't my code.. I'm not an advocate. I'm just trying to port/package stuff to compile under suncc
[06:46:50] <sstallion> except when you enable word access, the SROM reads correctly - and then in gen purpose SRAM, reads end up missing every other byte
[06:47:07] <sstallion> so the solution is do read the PROM with a dummy read after every read, and then use single reads in gen purpose SRAM.
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[06:47:11] <jmcp> uh .... wtf?
[06:47:13] <sstallion> INOW its just... retarded.
[06:47:17] <sstallion> yeah
[06:47:23] <sstallion> took me half a week to figure out wtf was going on.
[06:47:28] <codestr0m> sstallion: here's the header and code + error on the libffi first issue.. (as an example) http://rafb.net/p/PCBbMo41.html
[06:48:16] <sstallion> plus it looks like parallels does something retarded where byte access is required. so at some point I'll have to move the hardware to the opteron and hack in support for 16-bit PIO for the poor bastards that actually use it.
[06:48:39] <sstallion> I really am ready for this thing to be finished
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[06:50:11] <sstallion> codestr0m: that one should be pretty obvious
[06:50:20] <jbk> heh..
[06:50:30] <jbk> i'm ready to reinstall my desktop so i can get actual work done
[06:50:36] <jbk> well when i'm back home at least
[06:50:44] <sstallion> still in LA ?
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[06:51:45] <sstallion> jbk: once re is put to bed, i'm tempted to get cge up to a loadable state and then finish up the mii bits
[06:51:49] <jmcp> codestr0m: geez that code is ugly
[06:52:02] <codestr0m> sstallion: instead of pointing out I'm still learning.. realize I am trying to be helpful
[06:52:23] <sstallion> codestr0m: let the compiler guide you. start with the first warning and move forward.
[06:52:23] <codestr0m> jmcp: yeah. that's the general consensus
[06:52:43] <codestr0m> sstallion: sure. in this case I can guess what to do.. in others. it's a one liner that I'm stuck on
[06:53:09] <jmcp> codestr0m: just for interest, have you tried using the ON cw wrapper rather than invoking cc directly?
[06:53:39] <codestr0m> jmcp: ON cw wrapper.. you mean that ugly nighlty build script?
[06:53:44] <jbk> sstallion: yeah.. fly back sat afternoon
[06:53:54] <jmcp> codestr0m: no, I mean the cw wrapper utility
[06:53:59] <sstallion> jbk: how was the training ?
[06:54:02] <jmcp> as distinct from the script called nightly
[06:54:03] <jbk> and ok.. i'll have to reread the specs then so i can remind myself of how it works :)
[06:54:06] <jbk> fine so far
[06:54:17] <sstallion> jbk: same here ;)
[06:54:17] <jmcp> codestr0m: onnv-tools/onbld/bin/cw -_cc (all your args)
[06:54:40] <sstallion> jbk: looks like I might be sent to spain toward the end of the year :/
[06:55:04] <jbk> nice if you'll have any time to see stuff
[06:55:18] <codestr0m> jmcp: aha. yes. for those outside swan I thought it was recommended to use nightly vs cw? (or easier.. never tried..)
[06:55:19] <sstallion> I hope so. It sounds like it might be a week or so
[06:55:30] <jbk> only other country i've been to is canada and that doesn't really count :)
[06:55:38] <jmcp> codestr0m: they're two distinct things, with different uses
[06:55:42] <sstallion> I've never left the states, so that should be very interesting
[06:55:46] * jbk mumbles about stingy vacation days give by most US companies
[06:55:55] <sstallion> jbk++
[06:56:10] <jmcp> codestr0m: cw - at a bare minimum - does argument translation between cc and gcc
[06:56:11] <jmcp> and back again
[06:56:18] * codestr0m mumbles about [s1] "+r" ((long)(s1)) which blocks amd64 optimizations in liboil
[06:56:34] <codestr0m> oooh.. interesting
[06:56:57] <sstallion> codestr0m: typically you don't even want to run builds with nightly, at least not if you are doing any serious onnv development
[06:56:57] <jbk> liboil?
[06:57:03] <jbk> is there a libvinegar too? :)
[06:57:13] <jmcp> jbk: libbalsamic mmmmmmmmm
[06:57:38] <codestr0m> sstallion: yeah. for the parts I'm working on I just built all of ON.. and then slowly moving the parts I care about into modules
[06:58:13] <sstallion> codestr0m: sponsored ?
[06:58:22] <sstallion> or are these just done for the hell of it ?
[06:58:44] <codestr0m> heh. I don't care the name.. I've just not looked up "+r" for gcc to see what lvalue should be since [s1] "+r" [s1] isn't obviously correct ;)
[06:59:01] <codestr0m> sstallion: when I know more I'll try to find a sponsor
[06:59:17] <sstallion> codestr0m: save yourself some effort... you need a sponsor first in this case
[06:59:31] <sstallion> adding new dependencies in ON is not an easy thing to do (nor should it be)
[06:59:40] <sstallion> ask jbk about postgres and onnv sometime :)
[06:59:47] <codestr0m> *cough*
[06:59:48] * jmcp swears
[06:59:51] <ky-san> sun pays for development for solaris?
[07:00:03] * sstallion echos jmcp
[07:00:07] <jmcp> ky-san: yes
[07:00:27] <jmcp> ky-san: Sun pays me and others, we work on OpenSolaris and OSlaris
[07:00:49] <jbk> sstallion: you mean it is an easy thing to do
[07:00:55] <sstallion> codestr0m: it is very likely that if you want this to be a part of onnv, you will need an ARC case
[07:01:01] <jbk> (but shouldn't)
[07:01:05] <sstallion> jbk: well, maybe its easy if you are on SWAN :)
[07:01:32] <jbk> perhaps
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[07:01:39] <jbk> but it seems like at least some of the engineers just don't care
[07:01:44] <sstallion> codestr0m: are you just adding python 2.5 to onnv?
[07:01:56] <codestr0m> sstallion: I'm all over the place with what I'm doing now, but I'm 99% sure alanc has an arc case for the only ON patch I currently have
[07:02:10] <jbk> 'oh you need mysql, postgres, and openoffice to build ON now? i don't see the problem'
[07:02:26] <codestr0m> sstallion: I added it to my local bits a few days back and did quite a bit of testing. 2nd lappy will reboot and test the sunw version to compare against
[07:02:51] <sstallion> codestr0m: just be careful. sponsors are a good thing :)
[07:03:10] <codestr0m> sstallion: thanks for the tip. I'm focusing on bug fixes currently
[07:03:13] <sstallion> jbk: no disagreement here, but its old v.s. new
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[07:03:19] <spiked> heya
[07:03:33] <sstallion> I still do full SXCE installs on my workstations for that exact reason
[07:03:53] <spiked> okay, so i'm trying to run VirtualBox, and i got a win2k3 host up and running (for a class i'm taking we are -required- to run ms access, so i  decided to run win2k3 headless on my opensolaris machine
[07:03:55] <sstallion> not to mention my onnv clone is based on onnv_99 until this studio 12 b.s. settles down.
[07:04:03] <jbk> heh
[07:04:06] * jbk angers
[07:04:06] <spiked> Anyhow, after around a day of running, it bogs the machine way down until it no longer responds
[07:04:39] <spiked> I've tried reinstalling, creating a new virtual machine, etc...nothing seems to help.
[07:04:41] <codestr0m> sstallion: SS12 problems?
[07:05:05] <sstallion> codestr0m: onnv moved over to studio 12 in b100
[07:05:07] <jmcp> codestr0m: there is/was a problem with lint
[07:05:12] <sstallion> there is always a transition period were things are difficult
[07:05:18] <sstallion> s/were/where/
[07:05:19] <jmcp> and with amd64 function frame generation
[07:05:20] <spiked> I don't even know how to further diagnose the problem here
[07:05:36] <spiked> Because its not like there's an error, everyting just starts getting really really slow, until the machine starts dropping connections.
[07:05:49] <sstallion> besides, I'm lazy when it comes to updating a functioning work environment :)
[07:05:55] <spiked> WHen i look in top, virtualbox (or VBoxHeadless, or however i run virtualbox) isn't consuming any more memory than i told it to in the config
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[07:06:18] <codestr0m> heh. I'm happy about this update :P
[07:06:21] <codestr0m> this is good news
[07:06:41] <sstallion> codestr0m: most userland programmers are :P
[07:07:10] <codestr0m> sstallion: why do I feel you've insulted me more than once today?
[07:07:18] <sstallion> I havent
[07:07:19] <codestr0m> I could frankly care less, but still
[07:07:24] <jmcp> codestr0m: he hasn't
[07:07:31] <sstallion> There is a big disparity between kernel and userland
[07:07:32] <codestr0m> ok.
[07:07:36] <sstallion> studio 12 will be a good thing when its stable in uts
[07:07:42] <codestr0m> I'm not aware of any such disparity
[07:07:45] <jmcp> it is stable for UTS right now
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[07:08:04] <sstallion> jmcp: have they rolled a new package yet?
[07:08:09] <jmcp> not yet
[07:08:12] <jmcp> working on it, iirc
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[07:08:17] <sstallion> that would be nice
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[07:08:21] <jmcp> it's just that lint suddenly started requiring 2x and more swap
[07:08:25] <jmcp> a mis-optimisation, I believe
[07:08:34] <sstallion> *nod*
[07:08:42] <sstallion> the amd64 bits were what had me the most concerned
[07:08:50] <jmcp> they got fixed
[07:08:51] <jmcp> and fast
[07:08:54] <jmcp> *real* fast
[07:08:58] <sstallion> I bet :)
[07:09:18] <codestr0m> will there be patches for SS12 to resolve this for those outside the firewall?
[07:09:19] <sstallion> codestr0m: I've been using studio 12 at work since it was released, its a good compiler
[07:09:23] <jmcp> sstallion: there were even Phone Calls
[07:09:31] <sstallion> ouch
[07:09:34] <jmcp> yah
[07:10:04] <codestr0m> sstallion: I concur. my testing with gcc mplayer vs sun cc was the point when I thought it'd be worth the effort in general
[07:10:22] <codestr0m> I'm also not sure if it's true, but there's a rumor sun will open cc
[07:10:34] <sstallion> I'm one of the few sun cc guys at the office... most of the others are gnu users
[07:11:00] <jbk> i was talking to the guy teaching the netapp class
[07:11:04] <jbk> about solaris and such
[07:11:05] <sstallion> always annoys me to go without mdb or dbx
[07:11:07] <codestr0m> heh.. gcc has been a progressively worst **** since 3.4.6
[07:11:22] <jbk> and he actually had what i thought was a good idea (we were talking adopttion, etc)
[07:11:44] <jbk> sun should look into doing some free training classes to get more people familiar with *solaris
[07:12:09] <jbk> (he talks to the guys in the office downstairs from the training facility fairly often)
[07:12:26] <jbk> if i could get the facility, i know i'd be willing to do something like that
[07:13:12] <sstallion> jbk: you could always say something to jimgris
[07:13:20] <sstallion> That might fall under his umbrella
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[07:14:36] <jbk> i've not done it before, but i've given presentations on solaris features and such that seem to have been well received
[07:22:03] <codestr0m> jmcp: I'm poking cw like you mentioned. can you give a usage example for the  -_compiler argument.
[07:22:21] <jmcp> try -_cc, or -_gcc
[07:22:28] <jmcp> those are the only two options, iirc
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[07:24:05] <codestr0m> I think I got what -_^cc does, but ./cw usage: cw { -_cc | -_gcc | -_CC | -_g++ } [ -_compiler | ... ]
[07:24:17] <codestr0m> was just curious
[07:25:14] <edgy> Hi, df -h shows I have 3 swap filesystems (/etc/svc/volatile, /tmp, /var/run) each around 518M whereas my swap slice is only around 520M and my RAM is 512M, where is this additional swap coming from?
[07:26:20] <fraggeln> edgy: Im pretty sure its just mounted in diffrent places
[07:26:41] <fraggeln> edgy: I have the same on my box
[07:26:42] <fraggeln> bash-3.00# df -h |grep swap
[07:26:42] <fraggeln> swap                   2.1G   856K   2.1G     1%    /etc/svc/volatile
[07:26:42] <fraggeln> swap                   2.1G     4K   2.1G     1%    /tmp
[07:26:42] <fraggeln> swap                   2.1G    36K   2.1G     1%    /var/run
[07:27:10] <edgy> fraggeln: but did  you notice the size used is different in each?
[07:27:47] <e^ipi> man -s 1M swap
[07:28:18] <edgy> hi e^ipi ;)
[07:28:21] <fraggeln> edgy: well, same for zfs :) you can have one zpool but diffrent usages :)
[07:28:41] <e^ipi> see what the -l option does
[07:28:44] <sstallion> edgy: that doesnt mean you have 3 swap filesystems
[07:29:13] <sstallion> alright gents, i'm off to bed... take care
[07:29:19] * sstallion &
[07:29:21] <edgy> e^ipi: -l shows the only physical swap slice I have
[07:29:34] <e^ipi> yeah, nifty , right?
[07:30:34] <edgy> e^ipi: yes I now those displayed by df are not the physical swap but I don't know what are they. I thought first they are virtual swap space but the size disproves this
[07:31:11] <e^ipi> "virtual swap space" ?
[07:31:21] <e^ipi> that doesn't even make any sense to say it out loud
[07:31:40] <edgy> e^ipi: you are wrong here let me explain
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[07:32:26] <edgy> e^ipi: virtual swap space is the reverse of virtual memory whereas you can use part of the RAM instead of the physical swap in case you have enough of RAM
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[07:33:54] <e^ipi> think about that one for a moment.
[07:35:28] <edgy> e^ipi: you can find more accurate defintion in Solaris Internals
[07:35:51] <e^ipi> no, i know what virtual memory is
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[07:37:47] <tijo007> gm
[07:38:20] <freetown> a good day to you
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[07:40:18] <edgy> e^ipi: then it's the opposite. I just read about it in my docs because I am afraid to come and ask here while you are available unless I have enough info to argue ;)
[07:42:02] <e^ipi> there is no such thing as virtual swap. there is virtual memory, which is memory + swap... if you spill over your phy memory space, you start to use pages in swap
[07:42:34] * freetown runs and grabs a bag of potato crisps
[07:42:59] <e^ipi> :P
[07:45:25] <edgy> e^ipi: there is no such thing as virtual swap even if "Solaris Internals", Sun Docs mentions it?
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[07:46:52] <mshadle> how can i list the drives available to add to  zpool
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[07:48:57] <codestr0m> mshadle: I think use cfgadm to look for configured drives, but I've not used it before
[07:49:05] <codestr0m> (un)configured*
[07:49:10] <mshadle> oh, perfect
[07:49:31] <edgy> e^ipi: anyway if you still persist not to google for it or read the docs because you trust your knowledge so much, I may not be able to convince you and really it won't matter as far as you or some one else would help me understand what's this swap fs that's > my combined RAM and swap
[07:50:31] <edgy> Again my question is: From where do the swap fs displayed by df -h comes from? Are they reside in RAM?
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[07:51:46] <mshadle> 7 x 1.5tb raidz1 = 8.0TB usable according to df -h? does that sound right
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[07:52:12] <e^ipi> you're misunderstanding the term... you're not using part of your ram as swap, that makes no sense... what the term means is that your memory pages are backed by swap
[07:52:20] <mshadle> 6x1.5 = 9tb without adjustments to marketing and all that
[07:52:37] <e^ipi> regardless, you can find out about the filesystem layout with the 'filesystem' man page
[07:53:56] <e^ipi> and yes, /tmp sits on virtual memory
[07:55:30] <CosmicDJ> edgy: man tmpfs
[07:57:39] <edgy> e^ipi, CosmicDJ: correct me if I am wrong please: virtual memory is less then and combination of physical RAM and swap combined
[08:00:32] <e^ipi> the tmpfs man page answers that question.
[08:02:28] <CosmicDJ> edgy: you think so because df -h reports so?
[08:03:08] <edgy> CosmicDJ: think what?
[08:04:04] <mshadle> hrm. how can i share /tank/tv ? i can't seem to figure out how i shared it on my other solaris box
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[08:05:18] <e^ipi> mshadle: sharesmb or sharenfs property of the zfs volume
[08:05:30] <e^ipi> if it's SMB you'll need all the pam voodoo too
[08:05:32] <CosmicDJ> edgy: that VM is less that phy mem + swap
[08:05:39] <mshadle> yeah, got it. sharesmb
[08:06:03] <mshadle> how do i manage access to it
[08:06:52] <edgy> CosmicDJ: no, I think VM is less than phy mem + swap becuase the book I have define VM as the swap
[08:07:00] <trochej> Coffee
[08:07:46] <edgy> I read a lot about this stuff but I need some human help
[08:08:15] <trochej> edgy: In Solaris Virtual Memory is physical + swap
[08:11:05] <CosmicDJ> edgy: no idea what you've read; but wiki seems to be on pair with trochej :) -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_memory
[08:11:54] <trochej> CosmicDJ: I read it in Solaris Internals. But you may consult man pages for tools reporting memory usage
[08:12:32] <edgy> CosmicDJ: I read it in Sun Certified System Administrator for Solaris 10 Study Guide but let's forget about it and accept the wikipedia definition
[08:13:06] * freetown runs and grabs another bag of potato crisps
[08:14:07] <edgy> CosmicDJ: so again the swap file systems displayed by df -h shouldn't exceed the virtual memory I have by all means, right?
[08:14:46] <edgy> CosmicDJ: according to man tmpfs and my understanding of it, it shouldn't exceed the physical RAM
[08:15:50] <ky-san> edgy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_Systems:_Design_and_Implementation
[08:16:20] <ky-san> iirc there is a chapter about virtual memory.
[08:16:35] <CosmicDJ> edgy: could you post the exact sentence from the tmpfs manpage?
[08:17:46] <mshadle> i can't seem to figure out how to associate users/group sto the share
[08:18:30] <e^ipi> yeah, that's the pam voodoo
[08:19:07] <mshadle> sharemgr create -P smb tv
[08:19:07] <mshadle> sharemgr add-share -r tv -s /tank/tv tv
[08:19:23] <mshadle> so that makes the share, but i don tknow how to get users associated to 'tv'
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[08:20:37] <e^ipi> mshadle: http://www.genunix.org/wiki/index.php/Getting_Started_With_the_Solaris_CIFS_Service
[08:20:41] <e^ipi> read the bits about pam.conf
[08:21:15] <mshadle> heh, yeah, just found that page
[08:23:20] <edgy> CosmicDJ: "Another constraint is that the number of iles available in a tmpfs file system is calculated based on the physical memory of the machine and not the size of the swap device/partition"
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[08:23:59] <trochej> Coffee
[08:24:30] <freetown> mocha?
[08:24:54] <trochej> Any
[08:24:56] <trochej> :)
[08:25:32] <freetown> one espresso with milk and loads of chocolate coming up
[08:25:51] <trochej> Oooooh yeeeeeah
[08:26:21] * freetown serves trochej one mocha
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[08:28:15] <edgy> CosmicDJ: did I misunderstood that phrase?
[08:28:58] <e^ipi> i've only ever had one good mocha
[08:29:30] <e^ipi> usually it's nestle syrup and shitty blonde espresso with hot ( not foamed, just warmed and bubbled ) milk poured in it
[08:29:41] <e^ipi> awful things...
[08:29:53] <mshadle> is there an smb.conf in nevada?
[08:30:02] <e^ipi> this one place though melted bittersweet chocolate in to the cup
[08:30:06] <e^ipi> it was quite lovely
[08:30:15] <e^ipi> mshadle: probably not, what are you trying to do?
[08:30:20] <mshadle> im wondering how to force the machine name when i mount it
[08:30:23] <mshadle> right now it says 'tv$ on '
[08:30:28] <mshadle> instead of 'share on machine'
[08:30:36] <e^ipi> oh, it's a sharesmb property
[08:30:44] <mshadle> name=?
[08:30:48] <mshadle> that's the share name..
[08:30:49] <e^ipi> like set sharesmb=name=Pr0n
[08:30:52] <freetown> ack...been a while since i worked in a coffee shop...oh yeah...mocha's do use foamed milk like cappucinos...
[08:30:58] <mshadle> that's sharesmb=name=tv$
[08:31:04] <mshadle> i need the -machine- name
[08:31:06] <edgy> CosmicDJ, e^ipi: execuse me but why the help in this channel is very difficult? In linux channels they are more friendly and people learn from each other
[08:31:09] <e^ipi> freetown: foamed, or bubbled?
[08:31:34] <e^ipi> edgy: because linux is very poorly documented and relies heavily on so-called "tribal knowledge"
[08:31:50] <e^ipi> edgy: solaris is well documented and it is expected that the documentation should be your first resource
[08:32:15] <freetown> e^ipi: well...made from the process of squirting hot steam into a metal jug of fresh milk...whatcha call that?
[08:32:29] <e^ipi> depends who does it
[08:32:36] * freetown lol
[08:33:05] <mshadle> my hostname is 'nas01'
[08:33:10] <mshadle> this should say 'tv$ on nas01'
[08:33:55] <edgy> e^ipi: did you really use linux enough to judge the quality of its docs?
[08:34:21] <freetown> I do. And I am afraid I'd agree with him.
[08:34:24] <e^ipi> yes, i used it for about 8 years as my primary operating environment
[08:34:51] <loquitus_of_borg> How do I specify to the sun studio compiler that I want to statically link a library instead of dynamically link? I believe -lfoobar will dynamically link to libfoobar.so, but I want to statically link to foobar.a
[08:34:59] <edgy> e^ipi, freetown: can you please point me to one example that solaris docs is better than linux?
[08:34:59] <e^ipi> freetown: http://coffeesnobs.com.au/attachments/P1000143_Large.JPG
[08:35:10] <e^ipi> that's tasty foam
[08:35:19] <e^ipi> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v725/louieloui/Misc/CGFoamBad.jpg
[08:35:23] <e^ipi> that's disgusting bubbles
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[08:35:55] <e^ipi> edgy: all of them? pick a man page, go look up docs.sun.com
[08:36:01] <freetown> edgy: Just compare Redhat manuals to Sun manuals.
[08:36:30] <e^ipi> most linux "docs" are mostly incorrect howtos and some random idiots' blog, which is also mostly wrong
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[08:38:07] <freetown> e^ipi: ah...i see whatcha mean by bubbled foam.
[08:38:31] <edgy> e^ipi: ok let me tell you my experience please, the man pages in linux is packaged with its corresponding app where as in Solaris it seems to be packages separately which leads to many man pages having optioins not in the application packaged. I have never seen such a thing  in linux but many times in solaris
[08:39:39] <freetown> edgy: asked about that. copyright issues. I have not seen one page with wrong options.
[08:39:44] <edgy> I love solaris and respect sun but I can easily find my way in linux whereas I struggle a lot in Solaris, docs are contradicting, irc is not that helpful, programs have very few options
[08:40:20] <edgy> and even those options should be put in a specifc place
[08:40:23] <comay> edgy, we're in the process of moving the man pages in with each component
[08:40:38] <edgy> comay: that would be a good step really
[08:40:53] <comay> traditionall, the man pages were all shipped together but gradually they're being put in the right packages
[08:41:09] <prav33n_> Hi
[08:41:18] <edgy> comay: hope this happens soon, it confused me a lot
[08:41:35] <prav33n_> I upgraded to OpenSolaris snv_99 tonight and I see the fonts change drastically
[08:41:48] <prav33n_> Is this a known behavior?
[08:42:20] <comay> hey prav33n_ yes, it's a know behavior and may be considered a feature
[08:42:22] <freetown> edgy: confused you? what? having a man page present but not the program?
[08:42:22] <comay> :)
[08:42:35] <e^ipi> the packaging of of the docs and the quality of the docs are 2 different things
[08:42:36] <comay> if you don't agree, please send some email to desktop-discuss
[08:42:44] <prav33n_> comay, Do we have any pointers that talk about this behavior?
[08:42:54] <prav33n_> comay, The fonts are too tiny to read
[08:42:56] <edgy> freetown: no. having options in the man that are not working is the confusion
[08:43:03] <prav33n_> I might wanna try some workaround
[08:43:19] <freetown> edgy: name one
[08:44:16] <comay> prav33n_ there is the opensolaris desktop ui spec; it was posted on desktop-discuss which is why it's best discussed there
[08:44:18] <edgy> freetown: I am not here to convince you or argue. If I remember one out of mind now I would mention it but this is the truth that I met many times
[08:44:26] <comay> i agree with you, btw, that the fonts are far too small
[08:44:31] <prav33n_> comay, Okay
[08:44:34] <e^ipi> comay: +1
[08:44:39] <e^ipi> comay: i don't like the new font config
[08:44:57] <freetown> edgy: well, i have not managed to run into any yet in the last six months so I want to see an example
[08:44:59] <prav33n_> comay, Thanks for the information.
[08:45:17] <prav33n_> Also looks like Gnome 2.24 RandR support broke dual monitor setup
[08:45:24] <prav33n_> I will file a bug on it
[08:45:32] <freetown> so i get to go back the centos list and make fun on opensolaris. come on...which?
[08:45:36] <edgy> freetown: I didn't care to keep a record of them but next time when I encounter one I would record it somewhere for  you
[08:45:48] <freetown> aw
[08:45:59] <e^ipi> prav33n_: works here *shrug*
[08:46:17] <e^ipi> prav33n_: check your xorg.conf ?
[08:46:39] <edgy> e^ipi: now would you please care to help me or is it that I should just go and read more?
[08:46:47] <e^ipi> edgy: with what?
[08:46:57] <e^ipi> ( and reading more never hurts... )
[08:47:06] <freetown> edgy: btw, have you read this? http://www.linux.com/feature/147358?cid=e7154 Most people here disagree on Indiana.
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[08:47:23] <prav33n_> e^ipi, My Thinkpad drives two LCD monitors (1600x1200 each), one on VGA and other on DVI
[08:47:30] <edgy> e^ipi: with my original problem. I don't understand how come the swap fs displayed by df is more than my virtual memory
[08:47:37] <prav33n_> Things work fine on snv_98
[08:47:53] <prav33n_> However the setup is broken on snv_99
[08:48:02] <freetown> e^ipi: I think it is why df is showing the various mount points that use swap and how much use they make of it
[08:48:11] <e^ipi> prav33n_: maybe it got fixed ? snv_100 here, a quadro driving 2 DVI monitors
[08:49:02] <prav33n_> http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/1227574
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[08:49:44] <e^ipi> 1 sec, let me see if i have an xorg.conf
[08:50:00] * freetown is out of crisps
[08:50:16] <prav33n_> e^ipi, I assume that you have one. Virtual size needs to be configured for dual monitors
[08:51:02] <prav33n_> I use this script to turn on dual monitors every time manually http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/1227576
[08:51:36] <e^ipi> here's mine, for whatever it's worth
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[08:51:44] <prav33n_> I am also seeing one weird behavior in snv_99
[08:51:46] <e^ipi> http://pastebin.ca/1227577
[08:52:21] <prav33n_> Whenever I open an application by clicking an icon, the systems freezes up briefly
[08:52:27] <e^ipi> only one? you got lucky, I had to put all my sata disks on an external controller because the onboard one panics
[08:52:32] <e^ipi> :)
[08:52:32] <edgy> freetown: do you know the answer of my question?
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[08:53:16] <prav33n_> e^ipi, Looks like you use Xinerama on nVidia driver
[08:53:26] <e^ipi> yep
[08:53:33] <prav33n_> Xinerama is obsoleted by XRandR
[08:53:48] <freetown> edgy: yes. it looks kinda obvious to me that df is just reporting usage of the same pool (swap)
[08:53:48] <prav33n_> nVidia drivers don't support XRandR 1.2 yet
[08:54:14] <e^ipi> ahh
[08:54:16] <prav33n_> I am running RadeonHD (opensource Radeon driver) that is XRandR 1.2 complaint
[08:54:33] <prav33n_> Gnome 2.24 introduced RandR support in the Screen Resolution app
[08:54:47] <prav33n_> I am afraid that something might be broken here
[08:55:28] <e^ipi> my X-foo is weak, i kinna just used the nvidia utility to make it work good
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[08:58:13] <fraggeln> .
[08:58:35] <prav33n> e^ipi, Thanks for your pointers
[08:58:46] <e^ipi> sorry i couldn't be more help
[08:59:28] <prav33n> e^ipi, It's alright
[08:59:37] <edgy> freetown: you know. I just now managed to understand it. maybe you and e^ipi is trying to tell me this but somehow I didn't got it. thanks
[09:00:18] <edgy> actually fraggeln is the first who explained it but I couldn't got it too. thanks all
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[09:00:52] <freetown> edgy: cool. Sorry I did not pipe in earlier...i had too many bags of crisps lying around
[09:01:13] <freetown> :D
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[09:03:33] <edgy> freetown: the confusing thing is how can I get a summary of the percentage used instead of the individual usage of each swap folder?
[09:04:57] <freetown> edgy: er...no 'free -m' here. I am not too sure what command tells how swap has been used...
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[09:05:53] <edgy> freetown: yes in linux I can use free -m I really want the corresponding command here
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[09:07:16] <freetown> newbies want to know what command to check total swap used in solaris
[09:07:34] <e^ipi> vmstat gives you a bunch of vm stats ( hence the name )
[09:07:37] <DTEIT> morning
[09:07:41] <CosmicDJ> man swap
[09:07:47] <e^ipi> and swap(1M)
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[09:08:33] <freetown> edgy: swap -lk
[09:08:56] <CosmicDJ> swap: illegal option -- k
[09:09:01] <freetown> but we have to do the math if you really want total swap used and not remaining
[09:09:14] <freetown> CosmicDJ: eh?
[09:09:20] <freetown> running Indy here...
[09:09:26] <CosmicDJ> solaris10...
[09:09:27] <freetown> worked for me...from swap man age
[09:09:36] <edgy> freetown: same problem as CosmicDJ
[09:09:50] <freetown> edgy: are you running Solaris or OpenSolaris?
[09:10:04] <edgy> freetown: solaris
[09:10:11] <CosmicDJ> edgy: you should also checkout swapinfo.d from the DTraceToolkit...
[09:10:15] <freetown> sorry chums, look up your man page then.
[09:11:12] <edgy> CosmicDJ: I need at least a couple of months before  reach the point of reading about DTrace ;)
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[09:12:28] <e^ipi> dtracetoolkit is just like running a script, someone already wrote it for you
[09:12:29] <CosmicDJ> edgy: there's not much reading; just execute the dtrace script and it'll show you how much ram/swap you're using
[09:12:53] <freetown> are them scripts available on Indy?
[09:13:19] <freetown> or is it just go and download them?
[09:13:25] <e^ipi> indiana....
[09:13:31] <freetown> :D
[09:13:32] <e^ipi> and yeah, you just go download them
[09:13:34] <freetown> yup
[09:13:45] <edgy> CosmicDJ: I tried # dtrace and I got the help, which option should I use?
[09:13:59] <e^ipi> edgy: he's talking about the dtracetoolkit
[09:14:01] <freetown> Robust and ready according to linux.com. You hear that you grumpy old solaris admins?!
[09:14:04] <e^ipi> not dtrace by itself
[09:14:14] <asyd> \_o<
[09:14:18] <e^ipi> freetown: i'm not an admin
[09:14:30] <e^ipi> or old
[09:14:38] <e^ipi> grumpy... okay, i'll buy that
[09:14:49] <freetown> e^ipi: just referring to those who don't like Indy :P
[09:14:54] <e^ipi> indiana...
[09:15:02] <freetown> okay okay, Project Indiana
[09:15:09] <edgy> e^ipi: I don't know how to launch that dtracetoolkit. If you are willing to help I will try it. Otherwise, I will be there one day
[09:15:11] <e^ipi> ( seriously hate the abbreviation *glare* )
[09:15:16] <e^ipi> edgy: you download it.
[09:15:18] <e^ipi> and then run it.
[09:16:09] <fraggeln> e^ipi: do you have some inside info if svn_100 (sxce) will contain improved ati-support? :)
[09:16:15] <e^ipi> no clue
[09:16:23] <e^ipi> i avoid ati like the plague
[09:16:40] <freetown> e^ipi: why?
[09:16:50] <fraggeln> e^ipi: check :)
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[09:16:53] <cmihai> ATI has poor drivers on any OS.
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[09:17:08] <e^ipi> they're really assholes with respect to drivers so i haven't bothered with them since the mach days
[09:17:10] <cmihai> Best go for Quadros.
[09:17:43] <e^ipi> and i'm canadian, so there ought to be some national pride there, but i can't in good conscience give them a dime for their crap video hardware
[09:18:00] <cmihai> There's a bundle of laptops, workstations and such that come with Quadros by default anyway. Great driver support too (Windows, Solaris, FreeBSD, Linux).
[09:18:38] <freetown> can't argue with that
[09:19:07] <cmihai> Hell, the NVIDIA stuff is preinstalled on S10 / SXCE either way.
[09:19:19] <freetown> and Indiana
[09:19:28] <e^ipi> yes, and indiana
[09:19:43] <palowoda> So much for Indiana being opensource.
[09:19:55] <freetown> will there be an updated driver in 200811?
[09:20:32] <edgy> Unlike Nvidia ATI is now reveals most of the specs so open source drivers can be made
[09:20:38] <freetown> palowoda: i've been waiting for AMD to release the specs on their chips and what might come of that
[09:20:39] <edgy> they are doing a great job now
[09:20:48] <cmihai> freetown:  There's little stoping you from installing the latest from nvidia.com
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[09:21:20] <e^ipi> palowoda: indiana never claimed to be entirely open source
[09:21:22] <freetown> cmihai: er...i think i tried...can't remember how that went...
[09:21:24] <palowoda> I'm glad AMD is releasing all the specs.
[09:21:32] <e^ipi> only re-distributable
[09:21:32] <freetown> have they?
[09:21:34] <norman> freetown: The problem with releasing specs is, that someone can copy your hardware and reproduce it without the development costs
[09:21:47] <e^ipi> palowoda: no opensolaris distro can be entirely open source
[09:22:00] <cmihai> It also doesn't mean open source people will just go ahead and write a competent driver.
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[09:22:15] <freetown> oh well, i guess open source 3d ati drivers will remain a dream
[09:22:20] <e^ipi> norman: that's total nonsense... a register map isn't much help in cloning a CPU/GPU
[09:22:32] <cmihai> Hell, they have specs for say SPARC and they can't be arsed to write a proper open source OS :P
[09:22:48] <freetown> hehe
[09:22:52] <e^ipi> cmihai: they have the /source/ for sparc... the verilog sheets
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[09:23:13] <cmihai> Well, yeah :-).
[09:23:18] <norman> e^ipi: but that's what i read about, why they don't release the specs of their latest hardware
[09:23:45] <e^ipi> beats me
[09:23:47] <e^ipi> ask them
[09:23:57] <freetown> norman: huh? i thought it was third party proprietary stuff that was in the way
[09:24:09] <palowoda> Maybe an opensource video hardware project could be successful?  :)
[09:24:21] <cmihai> Oh oh, and don't for get OpenBIOS!
[09:24:25] <cmihai> *Shudder*
[09:24:27] <e^ipi> it's been attempted , innit ?
[09:24:38] <palowoda> I did put a smiley.
[09:24:42] <freetown> opencore or something?
[09:24:47] <norman> palowoda: with an fpga, so you can "update" your card? :)
[09:24:57] <e^ipi> http://wacco.mveas.com/
[09:24:58] <e^ipi> there's one
[09:25:07] <palowoda> norman: How much?
[09:25:15] <palowoda> As in $$
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[09:25:34] <e^ipi> norman: fpga boards that are very slow are about $5000
[09:26:29] <norman> what means "very slow"?
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[09:26:32] <palowoda> Now just what was the plan to get the numbers up to make it reasonable on the cost later on?
[09:26:35] <freetown> well, that sure beats this then: 'Hopefully you'll be able to buy one though within a few months for under 200 euro from us!'
[09:26:51] <mshadle> how hard is it to submit to the HCL? there's a program to submit, right? hopefully it doesn't actually require a gui?
[09:27:03] <e^ipi> http://www.traversaltech.com/ogd1p_faq2.phtml <-- another one
[09:27:15] <e^ipi> norman: very slow = the FPGA runs at 200mhz or so
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[09:28:37] <oxygene> cmihai: openbios was renamed to coreboot
[09:28:37] <norman> That looks good. Only 1000$ :)
[09:29:01] <palowoda> And no business plan to make it cheaper.
[09:29:01] <e^ipi> for 10 year old performance
[09:29:23] <e^ipi> but it's open source!
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[09:29:42] <palowoda> open source buyers are willing to pay for it.
[09:30:10] <palowoda> Not that they have plan after that.
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[09:30:14] * freetown looks at room with people who all have Nvidia cards in their boxes
[09:30:51] <norman> e^ipi: no, it's an fpga. and fpgas rock. :)
[09:31:00] <e^ipi> and are expensive
[09:31:10] <e^ipi> /very/ expensive
[09:31:19] <edgy> norman: legal issues
[09:31:43] <oxygene> freetown: and with a bit of care, it's possible to write drivers for them. nvidia just doesn't make it easy.
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[09:32:11] <oxygene> otoh, "easy driver writing" is responsible for the sorry state of linux drivers (all there, all buggy) *shrug*
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[09:32:25] <freetown> oxygene: well, we do have nv and radeonhd as proof...but...
[09:32:33] <e^ipi> freetown: if intel sold discrete cards, i'd buy a pallet of them
[09:32:43] <norman> e^ipi: But you can have fun with them. And maybe in some years, normal pcs will have an fpga together with their normal cpu to speed up their programs
[09:32:50] <e^ipi> doubtful
[09:32:54] <oxygene> norman: somehow I've heard that in 1995 already
[09:32:56] <freetown> e^ipi: you have very strange tastes
[09:33:15] <e^ipi> freetown: why? i don't do 3d work, and they've got nice open source drivers actually written by intel
[09:33:43] <freetown> e^ipi: video playback?
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[09:33:53] <e^ipi> what about it?
[09:34:02] <e^ipi> it's CPU bound
[09:34:02] <oxygene> freetown: video playback is a different problem than 3d. entirely different
[09:34:24] <oxygene> e^ipi: oh, there's some obvious offloading possible. and all cards, incl. intel's support it
[09:34:37] <palowoda> HD with opensource?
[09:34:39] <freetown> intel's do?!?
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[09:35:23] <freetown> e^ipi: as you have probably gathered,,,ati and nvidia do video playback offloading...with ATI leading the pack
[09:36:08] <loquitus_of_borg> Why is it that even if I link my program with /usr/sfw/lib/libstdc++.a, it still has a dependency on /usr/sfw/lib/libstdc++.so?
[09:36:11] <e^ipi> with multiple >2ghz cpu's spending most of their time idle, i'm not convinced that it's that big of a deal
[09:36:29] <oxygene> as far as I can see, they all support only some generic decoding issues (yuv/rgb and idct being the obvious offenders). you can find those even on an old trusty sis315 video chip
[09:36:31] <freetown> e^ipi: oh yeah it is.
[09:36:46] <twisti> loquitus_of_borg, How do you link?
[09:38:03] <loquitus_of_borg> twisti: /usr/bin/ld -G -h something.so -o ... <all the .o files> .... -B static -lstdc++ -B dynamic
[09:38:20] <loquitus_of_borg> more or less.. it is longer but that is the gist of it
[09:38:33] <freetown> e^ipi: you cannot play a mpeg4 video with just cpu power alone for example...not smoothly anyway
[09:38:47] <palowoda> static and dynamic?
[09:39:14] <loquitus_of_borg> palowoda: I am linking in some things to my .so file statically, yes.
[09:39:19] <loquitus_of_borg> but not all
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[09:39:29] <palowoda> Because?
[09:39:29] <e^ipi> freetown: such a thing works on my ( i950 ) laptop just fine so a weak graphics card isn't that big of a deal
[09:39:43] <oxygene> freetown: what do you think is the video card doing in case of mpeg4?
[09:39:48] <loquitus_of_borg> I do not want to have to supply .so files separately.
[09:40:11] <palowoda> Do you think Sun recommends static?
[09:40:11] <freetown> oxygene: that depends on the card and driver support.
[09:41:23] <loquitus_of_borg> palowoda: I am doing this mainly for the C++ library. not the others. I am having a sinister runtime linking issue where the string library is not finding a certain something. so as a lack of options are left, this is what I am trying... to link it against the c++ lib statically
[09:41:41] <palowoda> Good luck.
[09:41:42] <oxygene> freetown: they all only do color space transformation, idct and motion compensation stuff. the last one is fairly new (I think sis315, from ~2001, does not support _that_ one)
[09:41:59] <freetown> maybe i need to try play a mpeg4 video without hardware overlay and what not, full screen on a new box. i am still thinking of my old box
[09:42:08] <oxygene> freetown: fairly new means "in widespread use in 2005"
[09:42:24] <loquitus_of_borg> palowoda: is this supposed to be so complicated... what I am doing?
[09:42:36] <loquitus_of_borg> I have built oodles of software statically in Linux
[09:42:40] <oxygene> freetown: so the interesting bit isn't so much the driver, but the codec that tells the driver to actually use the features
[09:42:59] <oxygene> freetown: and there's the problem: the free codecs all suck in that regard
[09:43:24] <freetown> oxygene: heh...i know nothing about that...mplayer seems to come with everything under the sun
[09:43:39] <oxygene> freetown: sure, but everything under the sun, decoded by cpu
[09:43:45] <palowoda> loquitus_of_borg: Your just on a journey of finding out the differences of Linux and Solaris.
[09:44:07] <loquitus_of_borg> palowoda: what are they, briefly, in this context?
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[09:44:13] <freetown> not mplayer...unless you don't ahve the support in the video card and X server
[09:44:50] <Macabee> loquitus_of_borg: with solaris you have the guarantee that Sun won't break the ABI - in linux they break it quite a bit more often
[09:44:59] <Macabee> so people tend to static link on linux to get around that problem
[09:45:03] <palowoda> Finding static support is more difficult in Solaris vs Linux.
[09:45:36] <freetown> and its mplayer on Linux if mplayer on Solaris/OpenSolaris don't make use of XVideo/OpenGL/whatever
[09:45:42] <twisti> loquitus_of_borg, Use the libfoo.a file directly, not -lfoo.
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[09:46:25] <loquitus_of_borg> twisti: even if I link directly to the .a file, it is still looking for the .so file (in reference to doing this with stdc++)
[09:46:46] <loquitus_of_borg> palowoda: by support, you mean availability of libraries that have static versions?
[09:47:24] <palowoda> available and support have nothing to do with each other.
[09:48:13] <palowoda> Maybe we should remove the .a's.
[09:48:57] <loquitus_of_borg> palowoda: what precisely do you mean by support?
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[09:49:58] <palowoda> support is what I mean it to say at the time I utter it. :)  Humpty Dumpty.
[09:50:21] <loquitus_of_borg> Wow...
[09:50:40] <palowoda> Long strange road huh?
[09:50:52] <loquitus_of_borg> No.
[09:51:06] <palowoda> Tea time.
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[09:51:29] * freetown hands palowoda biscuits and a cup of milk tea
[09:51:31] <loquitus_of_borg> Amazing. I ask what support means, and I am told it means what it meant when it was said.
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[09:51:45] <oxygene> freetown: you're right, mplayer supports xvmc now. for mpeg
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[09:53:00] <oxygene> though only mpeg1/2, it seems
[09:53:32] <twisti> loquitus_of_borg, Is there a .la file?
[09:53:44] <loquitus_of_borg> twisti: .la file for what?
[09:53:49] <freetown> on OpenSolaris? I guess I am glad I did not go through the trouble of trying to get mplayer wokrin
[09:53:55] <twisti> Hmm, but that's normally used by libtool only...
[09:54:03] <twisti> loquitus_of_borg, libstdc++.la
[09:54:07] <oxygene> freetown: no, mplayer's svn repository
[09:54:32] <loquitus_of_borg> there is a libstdc++.la file
[09:54:58] <freetown> ??? I get accelerated support with mplayer on Linux when playing mpeg4
[09:55:24] <oxygene> mpeg4, h264, vc1, dirac, svq, rv30, vp3 don't seem to do xvmc
[09:55:33] <oxygene> freetown: what's accelerated?
[09:56:10] <loquitus_of_borg> Is there a FAQ that explains the utility derived by people who answer questions with useless and patronizing riddles, where those questions are asked by people who obviously do not understand something (which is typically a good reason to ask a question about that something)? I need to find this FAQ.
[09:56:23] <freetown> the stuff gets partly offloaded to the card for hardware overlay and whatever else so I can get nice smooth playback fullscreen or otherwise
[09:57:22] <twisti> loquitus_of_borg, Looking at the g++ -v output when linking, it adds -lstdc++ automatically.
[09:57:30] <twisti> /usr/sfw/lib/libstdc++.a -lstdc++
[09:57:44] <loquitus_of_borg> twisti: any way to tell it not to?
[09:57:50] <oxygene> freetown: hardware overlay.. so it's fast bitmap access. that's codec independent low-tech. sis315 (my standard for cheap ~2001 video technology) supported that. nvidia even supports that in their open "nv" driver, I think
[09:57:51] <loquitus_of_borg> as in, to link statically to it?
[09:57:55] <palowoda> Maybe an FAQ on what is in the .la file.
[09:57:57] <freetown> oxygene: i have been playing my videos thru opengl so maybe there is a different using xv output...
[09:58:02] <twisti> loquitus_of_borg, Don't know from the top of my head.
[09:58:21] <loquitus_of_borg> palowoda: is that supposed to be funny?
[09:58:28] <oxygene> freetown: both are just means to get pixels into videoram quickly. it's no codec support
[09:59:00] <palowoda> Nah supporting static linking isn't funny either.
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[09:59:30] <loquitus_of_borg> Pathetic...
[09:59:34] <freetown> oxygene: well...i don't know what else gets done...all i know is that it skips and what not if I don't specify an 'accelerated' output
[10:00:13] <freetown> so maybe Intel discrete will be good enough.
[10:01:01] <oxygene> freetown: I doubt they remove features they have for years (eg. i810 has video overlay)
[10:01:22] <oxygene> otoh, it's intel - they just created their first non-superscalar cpu in 13 years and call that innovation *shrug*
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[10:03:27] <twisti> loquitus_of_borg, Got it:
[10:03:30] <freetown> finally, end of the day. thnx all. have a good time!
[10:03:39] <twisti> loquitus_of_borg, $ g++ -nostdlib -o test test.cpp /usr/sfw/lib/libstdc++.a -lc -lgcc_s
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[10:05:05] <loquitus_of_borg> twisti: cool. let me try that. stc.
[10:05:07] <loquitus_of_borg> sec.
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[10:21:13] <DTEIT> i have some problems with sxce...
[10:21:35] <DTEIT> i have connected a scsi array and since then the solaris doesn't boot anymore
[10:22:24] <loquitus_of_borg> twisti: is that a Sun Studio directive? (nostdlib)
[10:23:05] <loquitus_of_borg> err... I mean... my link command uses /usr/bin/ld... so how would I use your nostdlib directive in this context?
[10:24:25] <DTEIT> the boot even in failsafe mode stop at configuring /dev
[10:25:16] <twisti> loquitus_of_borg, -nostdlib is a GCC argument.
[10:26:00] <loquitus_of_borg> twisti: I am building all this with sun studio and then it is apparently linking it with ld
[10:26:16] <twisti> Ohh.
[10:26:26] <twisti> But why do you want then to link with libstdc++?
[10:26:33] <twisti> It's a GCC library.
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[10:27:31] <th> is there a sata PCIe controller as good (wrt driver) as the supermicro marvel 8port thing?
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[10:33:37] <loquitus_of_borg> twisti: you know something. in all this talk, I decided to put LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/lib before I ran my app and that fixed the linker issue!
[10:34:03] <loquitus_of_borg> I do have a question. Is there a way to force a C++ app to have within it a search path for its shared libs?
[10:35:50] <loquitus_of_borg> ah
[10:35:56] <loquitus_of_borg> thanx
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[10:37:34] <palowoda> And http://xahlee.org/UnixResource_dir/_/ldpath.html  kind of gives some insight into LDPATH.
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[10:39:09] <cmihai> loquitus_of_borg:  Shouldn't you be using crle instead of LD_LIBARARY_PATH?
[10:39:37] <cmihai> (though I must admit crle makes it deceptively easy to nuke your sytem)
[10:40:09] <cmihai> Or install proper applications... compiled with the right libs in the first place.
[10:40:10] <e^ipi> you really ought to be using -R rather than either
[10:40:19] <e^ipi> or elfedit if you failed to do that
[10:40:56] <loquitus_of_borg> I am using -R now actually
[10:41:21] <loquitus_of_borg> no idea what crle is. you folks need some sort of system to get these acronyms translated easily to us newbies
[10:41:23] <e^ipi> add -R/usr/local/lib to your ldflags if adding that dir to LD_LIBPATH woked
[10:41:34] <e^ipi> loquitus_of_borg: crle = fuck up your system
[10:41:36] <e^ipi> don't touch it
[10:41:47] <loquitus_of_borg> haha. ok. what is it?
[10:42:18] <e^ipi> system runtime linker search path
[10:42:20] <e^ipi> don't use it
[10:42:21] <e^ipi> bad.
[10:42:54] <loquitus_of_borg> isn't that the same as monkeying with LD_LIBRARY_PATH?
[10:43:01] <e^ipi> worse
[10:43:09] <e^ipi> if you need it, you did something seriously wrong
[10:43:28] <e^ipi> and you should use elfedit to fix it
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[10:43:56] <palowoda> elfedit is kind of hack e^ipi.
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[10:44:28] <cmihai> Recompile your damn applications.
[10:44:28] <e^ipi> maybe, but less so than environment variables or crle
[10:44:37] <LeftWing> At least if you monkey with LD_LIBRARY_PATH it's just the application that you're running with that modified lib behaviour, rathe than Everything.
[10:45:26] <loquitus_of_borg> e^ipi: this might be off topic, but my Makefile CLEARLY shows that -R/usr/local/lib is in the build command for my app. yet when I run gmake, the -R/usr/local/lib is magically just being wiped off the like it was never there
[10:45:37] <loquitus_of_borg> as in whatever was to its left and right is fine. it got omitted
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[10:46:10] <LeftWing> Then your Makefile(s) are either broken or poorly understood, I imagine.
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[10:47:06] <loquitus_of_borg> Leftwing: put another way, I looked at the build command. imagine in the makefile it said -lfoobar -lgoo -R/usr/local/lib -lsomething_else. It is doing all that except -R/usr/local/lib is not there anytmore
[10:47:10] <loquitus_of_borg> so how is that possible?
[10:47:19] <CosmicDJ> crle is horrible, I'll never touch it again
[10:47:32] <loquitus_of_borg> is something actually pre-processing that command line and removing the -R directive?
[10:47:47] <loquitus_of_borg> I had some -B static directives in there... they got wiped out too
[10:48:07] <LeftWing> loquitus_of_borg: Perhaps you're missing something in the Makefile or a related Makefile?
[10:48:08] <loquitus_of_borg> ugh
[10:48:55] <loquitus_of_borg> ok. somehow in execution the command was "reordered". it is there. it was moved.
[10:48:57] <loquitus_of_borg> wierd.
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[10:53:15] <codestr0m> loquitus_of_borg: I have a feeling a few of these links may be helpful in terms of conversion/getting started http://www.redhat.com/docs/wp/solaris_port/x99.html old but still useful http://www.capitalware.biz/sun_cc_options.html  http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/805-4035/6j3r2rqnj?a=view and lastly if you're using ssx http://developers.sun.com/sunstudio/downloads/ssx/express_May2008_readme.html
[10:55:32] <loquitus_of_borg> codestr0m: thanks alot!
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[10:56:03] <codestr0m> loquitus_of_borg: I can't help much, but if you run into quirks and nobody else can help ping me
[10:56:34] <loquitus_of_borg> sounds good. thanks. by ping, you mean private IM?
[10:57:23] <codestr0m> loquitus_of_borg: nope. just here is fine.. I don't mind pm if it's OT or would annoy some of the more senior people around here
[10:57:36] <loquitus_of_borg> faire enough
[10:57:59] <th> oh - there is not a single PCIe sata controller on the HCL
[10:58:40] <codestr0m> th: I'd maybe try a recent spin to confirm if you already have the hw.. I'm not sure the HCL is fully up-to-date
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[11:00:17] <codestr0m> loquitus_of_borg: I sent you a pm.. I'm curious.. what are you building?
[11:00:44] <codestr0m> didn't you have kde4 questions earlier?
[11:00:49] <codestr0m> or was that boost
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[11:01:29] <palowoda> th: LSI and Areca have 8 port controllers that should be supported.  Areca having some recent changes in the latest builds.
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[11:02:11] <th> palowoda: so recent changes sounds like it might be work quite well in the future?
[11:02:30] <loquitus_of_borg> boost, actually
[11:02:36] <loquitus_of_borg> I am building a plugin for firefox
[11:02:50] <loquitus_of_borg> that runs on native code on OpenSolaris
[11:02:56] <palowoda> th: Yeah I think James was working on the Areca drivers not sure.
[11:03:21] <palowoda> Areca has some nice controllers.
[11:03:21] <Chipdancer> palowoda: correct - it's in b100
[11:03:25] <Chipdancer> or possibly b99
[11:03:32] <codestr0m> loquitus_of_borg: are you using the cvsdude co of 1.34 and have you read the directions on how to get started with it?
[11:03:37] <th> when is sxce100 due anyways?
[11:03:57] <palowoda> With in the week I guess.
[11:04:16] <th> cool
[11:04:28] <th> checking areca
[11:04:36] <Berny> hola th
[11:04:40] <palowoda> www.areca.com.tw
[11:04:42] <th> hi Berny
[11:04:42] <loquitus_of_borg> codestr0m: no idea actually, what you are talking about, in terms of cvsdude co of 1.34
[11:05:10] <th> lets see if they have non-raid sata controllers
[11:05:39] <th> the raid functionality (which i wont use with zfs) makes controllers way more pricey
[11:05:41] <palowoda> Yeah I wish more manfactures would have JBOD only.
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[11:06:20] <palowoda> Haven't seen many of them with 8 ports or more in JBOD.
[11:06:42] <palowoda> Other than the SuperMicro.
[11:06:43] <th> palowoda: perhaps supermicro will make a pcie version
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[11:06:49] <codestr0m> loquitus_of_borg: sec.. steleman I thought tried to help you before..? svn co http://svn9.cvsdude.com/kdesolaris/trunk/BOOST/1.34.1 unless you want to make a sun.jam for http://svn9.cvsdude.com/kdesolaris/trunk/BOOST/1.36.0
[11:07:46] <palowoda> Wait SuperMicro only has a PCI-X model?
[11:08:03] <loquitus_of_borg> codestr0m: ah yes... that. I tried that. meaning I downloaded those source trees. didn't get very far. no instructions on how to actually build them well. ok. I did not spend much time with boost. I was trying to build the cvsdude tree for stdcxx. Unfortunately it did not tell me how.
[11:08:10] <loquitus_of_borg> Just that it "works"
[11:08:39] <th> palowoda: not sure - checking...
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[11:09:18] <codestr0m> loquitus_of_borg: there *are* instructions online and also you may have to do some guesswork, but the scripts in Solaris/ sub dir should be self explanatory. those guys are busy so it's mostly self service.. I can confirm it does work though
[11:10:11] <loquitus_of_borg> codestr0m: I spent a bit of time scannning the stdcxx tree I got... now I did not look at EVERY file, but in the Solaris subfolder and the main tree folder, there was nothing remotely obvious to me that said how to build it.
[11:10:33] <loquitus_of_borg> I looked at the readme... sure. it was generic (as in the one that comes with the general release of it).
[11:10:42] <loquitus_of_borg> Nothing explaining how to build it specifically for Solaris.
[11:10:48] <palowoda> th: The only other pci-e that usally supports Solaris but in a 4port card is: http://www.addonics.com/products/host_controller/default.asp#pcie  they are good at specifiying solaris x86 support.
[11:11:06] <codestr0m> loquitus_of_borg: Solaris/*.sh specifically Solaris/configure.sh to start you rolling
[11:11:24] <_mary_kate_> th: LSI SAS controllers are very well supported under solaris and work with SATA too
[11:12:23] <loquitus_of_borg> codest0m: ah. I did try to run those. both build.sh and configure.sh failed.
[11:12:43] <loquitus_of_borg> I originally figured there was no documentation since it was as simple as running one of those.
[11:13:35] <palowoda> _mary_kate_: I did mention the LSI controllers but how do they compare in price say with an 8port plain JBOD sata controller?
[11:13:45] <palowoda> Just curious.
[11:14:07] <codestr0m> loquitus_of_borg: check google for cvsdude also check the cvsdude website.. if both of those fail and you need help in about 12 hours I'll make sure you get it resolved
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[11:17:05] <palowoda> I'm guessing that th was just looking for a dumb 8port jbod sata controller that was cheap to begin with.
[11:18:03] <loquitus_of_borg> codestr0m: sounds good. I appreciate it. right now, for better or worse... I have my app actually running in Firefox. As in Firefox is successfully finding and linking to it in runtime. So this is terrific. What is not terrific is it is crashing once I do something with my plugin. But I am hoping and suspecting it is now in C++ space and something that is a flaw in my code.
[11:21:42] <th> palowoda, exactly 8port jbod sata PCIe
[11:22:34] <palowoda> th: Yeah I think everybody wants a deal like that.  :-)
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[11:24:31] <palowoda> Maybe zfs will push more hardware manufactures to produce cards like this.
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[11:28:02] <th> palowoda: yes - that 4port thing is already at $189
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[11:29:58] <th> perhaps a PCIex16 bridge to PCI-X would be something
[11:30:55] <palowoda> Shesh I swear the prices use to be cheaper on the 4port.  Inflation and banks failing I guess.
[11:31:51] <palowoda> Maybe the price just increases for the multilane stuff.
[11:33:00] <th> USB is so cool ;)
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[11:33:28] <palowoda> Oh come on USB is slow.  Maybe USB 3 has some hope.
[11:35:54] <cmihai> Firewire 800 is much faster than USB 2.0
[11:36:00] <cmihai> Even Firewire 400 really.
[11:36:23] <cmihai> 480Mbit USB 2.0? You're lucky if you get half.
[11:36:25] <palowoda> Hmm Firewire 800 on Solaris?
[11:37:58] <th> not to mention the many issues with USB hubs
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[11:39:36] <th> how is 3ware support? not too good, hmm?
[11:39:42] <cmihai> See the HCL.
[11:39:46] <palowoda> Not good at all.
[11:39:56] <th> 10:58:54 < th> oh - there is not a single PCIe sata controller on the HCL
[11:40:03] <th> so much for the HCL
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[11:40:26] <palowoda> 3ware has had a rocky road with solaris, as in none.
[11:40:33] <th> haha
[11:40:51] <th> they dont have jbod anyways
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[11:41:16] <palowoda> jbod isn't popular in 8ports and more.
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[11:42:01] <palowoda> maybe in sas but not plain sata.
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[11:42:14] <th> yea right
[11:42:25] <palowoda> I don't make the rules.
[11:42:33] <th> there is some highpoint 8port...
[11:42:42] <palowoda> crap
[11:42:50] <th> well not really cheap neither
[11:43:24] <th> perhaps PCI-X in PCI is the most price-effective way to go then (the marvel)
[11:43:38] <palowoda> How much do you think per port on a pci-e controller should cost?
[11:43:42] <th> to bad most boards have more pciE than pci these days ;)
[11:43:49] <palowoda> just jbod
[11:44:06] <th> palowoda: well i compare with the marvel
[11:44:21] <palowoda> price per port?
[11:44:29] <th> oh well that was something like $10 ;)
[11:44:35] <palowoda> dream on.
[11:44:38] <th> hehe
[11:45:30] <palowoda> heck a 1 lane 2 port is 20.00 per port.
[11:45:48] <th> you have a hardware suggestion there?
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[11:46:19] <palowoda> I been using the Addonics 2port pci-e 1 lane.  40.00.
[11:46:37] <palowoda> Actually I have two of them in one system.
[11:46:52] <palowoda> But that is cheap stuff.
[11:47:02] <palowoda> Works though.
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[11:50:02] <th> ok i could fill the 3x PCIe-1x slots with them
[11:50:30] <palowoda> I don't see why not.
[11:50:49] <th> need to find a addonic distributer here ;)
[11:51:44] <palowoda> Most of the 3124 cards in the pci-e 1x lanes work.  I think addonics just tests with solaris.
[11:52:13] <palowoda> At least they mark there cards as working with solaris/opensolaris.
[11:52:22] <th> thats a start
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[11:53:01] <th> and you said the 4port thing works as well?
[11:53:36] <palowoda> Haven't tested the 4port yet.  But if they market it as supported with solaris on the webpage it porbably works.
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[11:54:02] <palowoda> Note that they mark wich cards work with solaris x86 on the webpage.
[11:55:59] <palowoda> looking at it, it doesn't look like solaris x86 is on the 4 port.
[11:56:12] <palowoda> ah well.
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[12:04:53] <palowoda> Huh, I didn't know Tekram and Areca where distributing the same controllers now.
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[12:29:56] <aruiz> is it possible to apply a RBAC profile to a group instead of a single user?
[12:31:32] <fraggeln> yay!
[12:31:42] <fraggeln> my nvidia-card is installed, now everything works fine :)
[12:33:57] <codestr0m> what should I change __QI__ to so it's more portable? typedef unsigned int UINT8  __attribute__((__mode__(___QI___)));   isn't correct for sun cc since ___QI___ isn't defined
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[12:36:27] <oxygene> codestr0m: it's probably a gccism - eliminate it, then
[12:36:49] <codestr0m> oxygene: you mean the whole attribute bit?
[12:37:07] <oxygene> yes
[12:37:51] <oxygene> though that statement can/should probably be replaced by typedef uint8_t UINT8;
[12:37:59] <oxygene> as unsigned int is "slightly" larger ;)
[12:38:18] <codestr0m> k. thanks..
[12:46:40] <codestr0m> oxygene: coreboot looks interesting ;)
[12:46:59] <codestr0m> I've always wanted to ditch my dell firmware, but I know my mb isn't supported in any free bios
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[13:05:04] <fraggeln> is there anyway to get java 1.5 instead of java 1.6 in sxce_99?
[13:05:18] <_mary_kate_> is it not in /usr/jdk/ ?
[13:05:47] <fraggeln> ohh it was :)
[13:05:56] <fraggeln> how do i get my system to use 1.5 on default?
[13:06:02] <_mary_kate_> you can change the /usr/java symlink to point to it
[13:06:15] <_mary_kate_> (that's the right way to change the default jdk)
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[13:08:20] <fraggeln> _mary_kate_: thanks.
[13:10:24] <fraggeln> but that didnt solve my problem :(
[13:12:09] <CosmicDJ> fraggeln: check your $path
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[13:17:46] <codestr0m> this isn't a gccism is it?! struct {  UINT64 gpr[MAX_GPR_REGS];  __int128_t sse[MAX_SSE_REGS]; } register_args; syntax error before or at: __int128_t
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[13:19:55] <fraggeln> CosmicDJ: well, its running with the correct jvm, but the application doesnt work :D
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[13:25:53] <CosmicDJ> codestr0m: does solaris have a 128-bit integer type?
[13:26:42] <seanmcg> long long ?
[13:26:56] <_mary_kate_> int64_t
[13:27:17] <_mary_kate_> __int128_t looks like MS Visual C++
[13:27:34] <_mary_kate_> or maybe that's just __int128..
[13:28:14] <CosmicDJ> seanmcg: long long could be 64bit on 32bit arch's... ;)
[13:29:28] <codestr0m> _mary_kate_: int64_t works on amd64..
[13:30:08] <ky-san> long long is 64b wide. on both amd64 and on 32b archs
[13:31:33] <codestr0m> now the fun stuff.. 354         .long   .LUW0-.                 /* FDE initial location */  == illegal subtraction.. (pesky inline arithmetic again)
[13:31:48] <oxygene> some gccs know "long long long" for 128bit
[13:32:42] <seanmcg> CosmicDJ, could be, if one is needed 128bit ints, why even think about a 32bit platform ?-)
[13:35:08] <oxygene> seanmcg: if those 128bit ints are merely used to store opaque bytefields (the example above looks like that) or serial counters, why not?
[13:36:02] <ky-san> why not to use struct?
[13:36:15] <ky-san> (for bitfields)
[13:36:32] <oxygene> don't they have different semantics?
[13:37:32] <ky-san> are you talking about bitfields large than 64bits?
[13:37:40] <ky-san> bitfield
[13:37:49] <oxygene> yes
[13:38:20] <ky-san> weird thing
[13:38:39] <ky-san> btw, which gcc has support for long long long?
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[13:42:50] <oxygene> not sure, I've seen it once or twice
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[13:45:02] <codestr0m> it just occurred  to me why I'm having such a hard time getting help with my small asm bits.. SS didn't support inline asm and the amount of senior solaris devs that want to mess with it is about .00001%
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[13:47:58] <codestr0m> I don't even know which ml to ask about this stuff on..
[13:49:35] <Berny> studio supports inline assembler... it's just different from gcc ;-)
[13:53:57] <CosmicDJ> yep
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[14:02:35] <fraggeln> is there any rel of sxce that is "stable"?
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[14:04:50] <trygvis> the builds before sxde released used to be more stable, but those are not released anymore
[14:05:08] <trygvis> currently the builds before indiana releases are more stable, which should be b100 and b101 AFAIK
[14:05:27] <fraggeln> trygvis: any idea on where to get them?
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[14:06:36] <trygvis> sxce b100 is the next one to come, should more detailed info on opensolaris.org
[14:08:31] <fraggeln> trygvis: when b100 is out, will I be able to upgrade from 99 easy ? or do i need to install?
[14:08:42] <fraggeln> i noticed that pkg is not available for sxce :)
[14:08:50] <Okona> you can liveupgrade
[14:08:57] <trygvis> if you use zfs or have a separate slice, you can liveupgrade
[14:09:04] <fraggeln> i use zfs
[14:09:06] * Okona hopes that gtk/gnome is more performant on b100..
[14:09:37] <fraggeln> I hope my commvault gui will work with b100 :D
[14:10:31] <Berny> Okona, I hope so too!
[14:11:23] <Berny> btw anyone has any idea whose bright idea it was to have debugging enabled for gnome-session in b99?
[14:12:14] <Okona> Berny: my ray is running slow as hell...
[14:12:58] <Berny> even on a dual core 3ghz box with 5gig its not the fastest
[14:13:10] <Berny> evolution is *really* slow
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[14:14:20] <Berny> ff3 is not the fastest as well
[14:14:22] <codestr0m> Berny: pull the gnome-session spec.. compile it w/o -g and push it to a local repo to confirm that makes a difference.. snv_99 for me is quite fine
[14:15:06] <Berny> codestr0m, gnome-session is logging debug info to syslog like hell on my two snv99 boxes
[14:15:28] <codestr0m> Berny: well. happen to check the logs?
[14:15:28] <Berny> that's just annoying
[14:15:37] <codestr0m> you know syslog is adjustable :P
[14:16:46] <Berny> yeah but how to redirect daemon.warning to /dev/null only if it comes from gnome-session?
[14:17:08] <Okona> it has to have something to do with drawing, since on the ray it is really slow as hell whileas on the console it is still acceptable
[14:17:20] <seanmcg> Berny, the gnome-session logging is a known bug, it was in the main gnome src :(   Fix is already in main gnome.org src and will be in b101 SXCE
[14:18:18] <Berny> seanmcg, eek 101 is still sooo far away...
[14:18:43] <Berny> .oO(grep -v gnome-session works fine though ... :-))
[14:18:52] <seanmcg> see http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=551761
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[14:27:16] <fraggeln> maybe i should install my old version instead.
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[14:29:14] <fraggeln> snv_79a :)
[14:29:19] <fraggeln> that version rocks :)
[14:33:06] <Berny> snv_49 on my office box :-P
[14:33:26] <fraggeln> I think im going to cry :(
[14:33:38] * JWheeler &
[14:34:08] <fraggeln> my onboard graphics-card works with 79a, i installed 99, and it didnt work. I got myself a nvidia 8400gs, works like a charm in 99.
[14:34:34] <fraggeln> 99 doesnt like my applications. so I tried to install 79a again, and it doesnt like my new graphic-card :)
[14:34:42] <fraggeln> it realy sux to be me right now.
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[14:50:00] <holcomb> any chance the 10/08 docs will go up a little bit early? :)
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[14:59:26] <poi> I have liveupgrade and snv_96 installed in a BE.  Can I put 2008.5 or s10u4 in the other BE?
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[15:08:50] <seanmcg> poi, not via liveupgrade.  you can do an install (off cd/net) of s10u4 in the other BE while preserving the other BE (and other disk slices) though.  I think 2008.05 usually wants the whole disk for itselt, but there are blogs out there in the ether showing how to get what you want
[15:10:42] <poi> thx -
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[15:16:44] <codestr0m> is it possible to preprocess foo.S in suncc? normally I can do -keeptmp, but it's failing and I can't find the tmp files if it's saving them
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[15:19:07] <codestr0m> there was this /tmp/cpp0AAA.17438.XNaWdI , but that's empty
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[15:25:45] <CosmicDJ> IIRC there isn't much to preprocess in an assembler file...
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[15:27:45] <codestr0m> CosmicDJ: well.. gcc -S/-E foo.s  is possible and when the asm is inline it'll spit out a temp file if it fails on acomp (or whatever that message is), but in this case it's in a .S file
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[15:28:50] <CosmicDJ> codestr0m: have you set $TMPDIR to /tmp ?
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[15:29:15] <codestr0m> CosmicDJ: well. it did make the one file, but it was empty
[15:29:34] <codestr0m> which I sorta expected since I normally get a message about the name of the tmp file
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[15:32:20] <evocallaghan> Hi, just a simple question
[15:32:33] <evocallaghan> Anyone done -lncurses before ?
[15:33:12] <_mary_kate_> are you doing a survey on how many people use ncurses, or is there a real question hiding there somewhere?
[15:33:31] <codestr0m> evocallaghan: yes. more than one person has compiled ncurses in here I'm sure
[15:33:39] <evocallaghan> [edward@SXCE-Workstation]:/export/home/edward/Desktop/ncurses/example1:~>file /usr/local/include/ncurses/ncurses.h
[15:33:40] <evocallaghan> /usr/local/include/ncurses/ncurses.h: English text
[15:33:43] <evocallaghan> I have that
[15:33:48] <evocallaghan> But it does not link ?
[15:33:54] <codestr0m> I think cvsdude has the work up.. I can maybe help as well
[15:33:56] <_mary_kate_> that's a header, you don't link to headers
[15:34:08] <_mary_kate_> you need libncurses.so.whatever or libncurses.a, the shared/static link libraries
[15:34:22] <evocallaghan> I know, I mean I have it installed
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[15:34:42] <_mary_kate_> well, my ESP is sadly broken today, so i guess you'll have to tell me the actual error
[15:34:51] <codestr0m> anyone know how to swap out the assembler for sun cc? I can't find in the manual how to pick a different one
[15:35:04] <evocallaghan> 1sec, too much going on here
[15:35:07] <evocallaghan> bear with me
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[15:35:46] <evocallaghan> ld: fatal: library -lncurses: not found
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[15:35:55] <_mary_kate_> where is your libncurses?
[15:35:57] <evocallaghan> cc example.c -lncurses -o example
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[15:37:14] <evocallaghan> I don't know
[15:37:24] <_mary_kate_> how did you install it?
[15:38:04] <codestr0m> evocallaghan: pkg search "*libncurses*" or pkg search "*libcurses*" notice the -n.. which would also affect the linking
[15:38:06] <evocallaghan> I though it was in  /usr/local/lib/
[15:38:14] <_mary_kate_> well, is it?
[15:38:19] <evocallaghan> SXCE man ..
[15:38:44] <_mary_kate_> ls /usr/local/lib/*ncurses*
[15:39:11] <evocallaghan> http://rafb.net/p/XaNNIJ97.html
[15:39:13] <evocallaghan> yea man
[15:39:18] <evocallaghan> This is what I am saying
[15:39:23] <_mary_kate_> so you need -L/usr/local/lib -lncurses
[15:39:30] <evocallaghan> OK
[15:39:33] <evocallaghan> 1sec
[15:39:47] <CosmicDJ> a -R/usr/local/lib also shouldn't hurt...
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[15:42:04] <_mary_kate_> i wish there was a switch to make -L imply -R
[15:42:19] <_mary_kate_> it's so tedious doing -Lfoo -Lbar -Lbaz -Rfoo:bar:baz
[15:43:43] <evocallaghan> http://rafb.net/p/yyRo2x26.html
[15:44:34] <_mary_kate_> ncurses.h, not curses.h
[15:44:35] <evocallaghan> I really need sleep, so its quite likely I am doing something stupid. Thanks for your help lads !
[15:44:41] <evocallaghan> Yea, tried that
[15:44:42] <_mary_kate_> curses.h is for Solaris/SVR4 curses, for that you need -lcurses
[15:44:56] <_mary_kate_> try it again
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[15:45:10] <_mary_kate_> most likely, you had a different error when you used the correct code
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[15:45:23] <_mary_kate_> in fact, i guess the error was "ncurses.h not found", because you forgot -I/usr/local/include/ncurses
[15:45:37] <evocallaghan> [edward@SXCE-Workstation]:/export/home/edward/Desktop/ncurses/example1:~>cc example.c -L/usr/local/lib -lncurses -o example
[15:45:37] <evocallaghan> "example.c", line 2: cannot find include file: <ncurses.h>
[15:45:41] <_mary_kate_> yep
[15:45:57] * evocallaghan scratches head
[15:45:58] <_mary_kate_> btw, 'void main()' is wrong.  main returns an int
[15:46:06] <evocallaghan> I know I know
[15:46:13] <evocallaghan> I copyed this code from a website
[15:46:19] <evocallaghan> s/copied
[15:46:31] <evocallaghan> void main is 10 things never to do !!
[15:46:43] <evocallaghan> gets(), etc.. I know ;)
[15:46:50] <CosmicDJ> evocallaghan: you'll need an -I/usr/local/include for include files in non-std paths
[15:46:59] <_mary_kate_> CosmicDJ: i was hoping he might realise i already told him that ;)
[15:47:14] <_mary_kate_> (he actually has it in /usr/local/include/ncurses, which for some reason is the ncurses default header location)
[15:47:39] <evocallaghan> http://www.writeka.com/ed/ncurses_library3.html I was simply trying to learn this
[15:48:43] <CosmicDJ> evocallaghan: IMHO the aera of cursed based UI is over, learn gtk or qt :p
[15:48:59] <_mary_kate_> CosmicDJ: tell that to someone who has to work on remote servers..
[15:49:00] <CosmicDJ> curse -d
[15:49:11] <evocallaghan> No, man. You don't understand what this is for
[15:49:33] <evocallaghan> I need this for my text mode installer
[15:49:46] <evocallaghan> So you can use a serial port etc ..
[15:49:52] <evocallaghan> Its rather important
[15:49:59] <CosmicDJ> evocallaghan: and you're textmode installer will install (open)solaris?
[15:50:07] <evocallaghan> I think this code is quite bad though
[15:50:12] <evocallaghan> yes
[15:50:18] <evocallaghan> Well, my distro
[15:50:20] <evocallaghan> But yea
[15:50:24] <CosmicDJ> evocallaghan: then you should stick with solaris std. curses
[15:50:26] <evocallaghan> AuroraUX
[15:50:44] <evocallaghan> Well at the moment, I am viewing everything
[15:50:47] <oxygene> evocallaghan: what's the status of your effort?
[15:51:11] <evocallaghan> planning and implementation
[15:51:15] <_mary_kate_> evocallaghan: fwiw, ncurses is an implementation of System V (i.e. Solaris) curses.  it has a few extra features, but not many
[15:51:23] <_mary_kate_> (unlike BSD curses, which is much more limited)
[15:51:24] <evocallaghan> I have a sound idea how the back end is to work
[15:51:28] <_mary_kate_> so you're not going to gain that much by using it
[15:51:40] <codestr0m> can someone confirm this doesn't produce output with sun's default gcc http://rafb.net/p/92qgRR47.html just save as test.S and gcc -E test.S (or gcc -S test.S)
[15:52:55] <evocallaghan> I want to maybe use http://invisible-island.net/cdk/cdk.html
[15:54:49] <_mary_kate_> also, text-mode installers tend to be much easier to use over serial if they're not full-screen
[15:55:01] <_mary_kate_> less redrawing of the screen all the time, rather slow over 9600 bps.  and less likelyhood of display glitches
[15:55:15] * codestr0m has just discovered -### and -# :D
[15:55:49] <oxygene> just make the installer a text adventure
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[15:56:42] <evocallaghan> I know I know
[15:57:00] <evocallaghan> You forgot the part about me relearning a few things here
[15:57:06] <evocallaghan> I need some nice examples
[15:57:35] <evocallaghan> and I need them examples to run first before I start doing the code for the install itself off my spec sheet here
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[16:08:08] * evocallaghan falls over
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[16:26:13] <glance> http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/1227845
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[16:59:28] <CIA-52> Mark Shellenbaum <Mark.Shellenbaum at Sun dot COM>: 6755435 zfs_open() and zfs_close() needs to use ZFS_ENTER/ZFS_VERIFY_ZP
[16:59:29] <CIA-52> Robert Thurlow <Robert.Thurlow at Sun dot COM>: 6667066 automounter parser fails with special character in map entries
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[17:23:25] <Mysterioux> jess... i tot this room was kinda of friendly
[17:23:31] <Mysterioux> MEN!
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[17:25:26] <e^ipi> okiedokie
[17:26:07] <jbk> morning
[17:26:14] <e^ipi> heya
[17:28:07] <codestr0m> Mysterioux: ?
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[17:33:10] <rpage> hello all, i have a bit of a issue i need help dual booting opensolaris with fedora core 9
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[17:34:01] <rpage> i installed fedora on one parition of the hdd and installed opensolaris on the other
[17:34:23] <rpage> when i check /rpool/boot/grub/menu.1st
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[17:34:29] <rpage> i see the foolowing
[17:35:19] <rpage> http://pastebin.com/m2c134ddb
[17:35:24] <rpage> how can i fix it
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[17:40:14] <e^ipi> drop in fedora's menu.lst stuff
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[17:40:23] <rpage> how do i get to it
[17:40:34] <e^ipi> *shrug* grab a livecd or something
[17:40:44] <rpage> huh
[17:40:48] <e^ipi> our grub can boot linux, linux grub can't boot solaris
[17:41:11] <rpage> ok, am in opensolaris
[17:41:39] <rpage> how can i mount my linux parition so i can see what fedora grub.conf has
[17:41:42] <rpage> so i can copy it
[17:42:06] <rpage> i tried mount -F ext3fs /dev/rdsk/c3t0d0p0 /mnt/linux/
[17:42:17] <rpage> mount: Operation not applicable to FSType ext3fs
[17:42:22] <anil1> rpage: solaris cant by default read ext3
[17:43:22] <rpage> ok so how can i mount it?
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[17:49:28] <rpage> i have opensolari slive CD
[17:49:39] <rpage> i dont have a live cd for fedora
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[17:51:34] <rpage> e^ipi or anil1 ?
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[17:52:21] <johannes> rpage: ty mounting as ext2, ext3 is ext2+journaling
[17:52:53] <mshadle> i am mounting a cifs share from linux -> opensolaris, and i am getting "cannot preserve times" and the permissions of the files are not even close they're all stripped down to like 0400
[17:52:57] <anil1> if you have windoes..theres a small package called http://ext2read.sourceforge.net/about/
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[17:53:04] <anil1> rpage: ^
[17:53:15] <johannes> mounting for read only should be no problem at all, for rw you can't rely on the journal untl ext3 fixes that again ...
[17:53:17] <mshadle> i'm mounting as mount -t cifs -o username=me //192.168.1.203/share$ /mnt/foo
[17:54:04] <rpage> this box only has opensolaris and fedora its a ultra20 workstation
[17:54:37] <rpage> can i do anything with opensolaris livecd
[17:55:38] <rpage> there is no kind of loop back device i can use
[17:55:40] <rpage> ?
[17:56:48] <anil1> no.. the ext drivers are not on the cd.. they are on a belenix livecd if you can get your hands on them
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[17:57:45] <rpage> :(
[17:58:22] <e^ipi> rpage: just use some linux livecd, copy your menu.lst to a usb stick, and then dump the relevant section to solaris' menu.lst
[17:58:28] <e^ipi> doesn't matter which livecd
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[18:03:30] <rpage> how do you lock user screen in opensoalris
[18:04:09] *** rpage has quit IRC
[18:04:24] <anil1> xlock?
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[18:18:21] <seanmcg> xscreensaver-command -lock
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[18:36:23] <codestr0m> aha! success! libffi + SSX served ranlib .libs/libffi_convenience.a
[18:36:23] <codestr0m> creating libffi_convenience.la
[18:36:28] <codestr0m> now I just need to test
[18:37:47] <jbk> ffi?
[18:38:21] <codestr0m> jbk: libffi http://sourceware.org/libffi/
[18:38:58] <jbk> ahh
[18:39:00] <codestr0m> they used gcc to package it with snv_99, but with some help from you guys today I was able to get it to compile with SSX
[18:39:11] <jbk> thought it was maybe some sort of fourier transform variant
[18:39:14] <codestr0m> I just figured out how to get around the last asm bits and it built
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[18:39:40] <codestr0m> now my asm todo list is down to 2 items again
[18:39:51] <codestr0m> and I've learned quite a bit
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[18:49:59] <CosmicDJ> codestr0m: so it builds, but does it also work? :)
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[18:51:48] <CosmicDJ> codestr0m: some sw is distributed with (regression) tests; AFAIK they can be run with make check or make test or smth
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[18:57:51] <codestr0m> CosmicDJ: after dinner we'll see. make check tells me I don't have runtest
[18:57:59] <codestr0m> so I'm guessing I need to install dejagnu
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[19:03:36] <codestr0m> CosmicDJ: after I run the tests I think I'll take another look at openssl.. I have this gutt feeling that's over my head to port to sun cc
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[19:04:46] <jbk> doesn't the bundled openssl use sun's compiler?
[19:05:09] <_mary_kate_> i've never had a problem compiling openssl with studio... no 'porting' required
[19:05:23] <_mary_kate_> although it's not something i'd do often, as it's bundled
[19:05:33] <jbk> as well as have the hooks into the crypto subsystem?
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[19:42:14] <esxbalu> hi guys - one of my java app is doing lot of pollsys
[19:42:20] <esxbalu> on solaris10
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[19:42:23] <esxbalu> but
[19:42:46] <esxbalu> vmstat and other show the run queue is 0 but the load avergae is high
[19:43:15] <esxbalu> any idea how the vmstat and load average differ?
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[19:46:50] <codestr0m> esxbalu: http://www.teamquest.com/resources/gunther/ ;)
[19:47:02] <codestr0m> lots of reading on load average if you're up for it
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[20:01:33] <_setuid_H> Evening guys
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[20:02:15] <davismj> ?????
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[20:03:26] <_setuid_H> davismj: what language  it is?
[20:03:59] <davismj> japanese
[20:04:01] <davismj> good day!
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[20:05:33] <_setuid_H> davismj: I tought that :-)
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[20:13:37] <_mary_kate_> anyone want to recommend a sun reseller in .de for small orders?
[20:16:11] <codestr0m> _mary_kate_: I know one in poland
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[20:17:50] <cypromis> how small ?
[20:17:55] <cypromis> we are in germany and in poland
[20:18:06] <codestr0m> cypromis: oh. you're over here as well.. I forgot :)
[20:18:16] <cypromis> I am everywhere
[20:18:22] <cypromis> especially in the least epected places
[20:18:23] <codestr0m> heh..
[20:18:33] <_mary_kate_> cypromis: 2-3 intel servers
[20:18:35] <codestr0m> did you mean expected or epic ;)
[20:19:20] <cypromis> _mary_kate_: PM
[20:21:09] <CosmicDJ> which state? just curious...
[20:21:29] <_mary_kate_> CosmicDJ: asking me?
[20:21:33] <CosmicDJ> jep
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[20:22:25] <_mary_kate_> Hesse.  but we need shipping to .nl, so physical location isn't so importing ;)
[20:22:38] <CosmicDJ> ah ok
[20:23:30] <codestr0m> _mary_kate_: for what it's worth I'm local in NL
[20:23:57] <codestr0m> if cypromis and you work something out I don't mind helping
[20:24:22] <cypromis> Hesen
[20:24:28] <cypromis> is the state
[20:24:29] <cypromis> :)
[20:24:51] <cypromis> where in NL ?
[20:25:18] <codestr0m> cypromis: 20 minutes from Ams
[20:25:35] <cypromis> sonds like telecity2
[20:25:36] <cypromis> :P
[20:26:41] <codestr0m> no. my days of sleeping in datacenters is over.. *maybe*
[20:26:55] <codestr0m> and I prefer evoswitch.. it's green friendly and they lights automagically go off
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[20:34:32] <troll> hi
[20:34:56] <e^ipi> yo
[20:35:14] <CosmicDJ> don't feed the troll ;)
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[20:35:48] <e^ipi> nobody fed him
[20:36:16] <codestr0m> CosmicDJ: which one ;)
[20:36:17] <troll> lol
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[20:36:36] * troll the troll is hungry
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[20:39:04] <CosmicDJ> lol
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[20:59:21] <codestr0m> _mary_kate_: you were right. I double checked and openssl does support suncc oob.. they need to update -xarch=amd64 to -m64 maybe, but not sure when that was implemented
[20:59:45] <_mary_kate_> 12
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[21:00:05] <codestr0m> yeah. I try to fix warnings where possible
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[21:05:01] <mshadle> i am mounting a cifs share from linux and windows -> opensolaris, and i am getting "cannot preserve times" and the permissions of the files are not even close they're all stripped down to "d---------+"
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[21:12:43] <e^ipi> mshadle, yes, those would be ACL's
[21:13:07] <e^ipi> ls -V will give you the whole set of perms
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[21:13:48] <_mary_kate_> unfortunately, the choice of the cifs server to use only ACLs makes it hard to interoperate with other things
[21:14:11] <e^ipi> except windows, where it works pretty well
[21:14:11] <_mary_kate_> you'll find it's easy to lose the ACLs, and some command-line tools will get confused.. and you won't be able to use the files from a linux system at all, because it doesn't support nfsv4 acls
[21:15:02] <e^ipi> nfsv4 acl's are derived from ntfs acl's , hence the decision
[21:15:15] <_mary_kate_> actually, you might be able to read/write the files form linux, but it won't be able to see the permissions
[21:15:17] <mshadle> can i disable the acls?
[21:15:45] <e^ipi> mshadle, no, how do you mean 'disable'
[21:15:50] <e^ipi> what specifically are you trying to do?
[21:16:05] <mshadle> i dont need extended access control
[21:16:15] <mshadle> i am fine with standard user/group/other
[21:16:43] <mshadle> i want to mount this from windows and linux as a system user without odd issues like this
[21:16:54] <e^ipi> i ran in to the problem with my local user not being able to read files created by CIFS, the solution is to add a +everything+inherit ACL to the top-level directory
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[21:17:08] <e^ipi> windows can mount it just fine, and understands acl's
[21:17:13] <e^ipi> idmap will help you set up the mapping
[21:17:17] <mshadle> aclinherit      YES      YES   discard | noallow | restricted | passthrough
[21:17:18] <mshadle>         aclmode         YES      YES   discard | groupmask | passthrough
[21:17:23] <mshadle> this is from cifs
[21:17:26] <e^ipi> not the zfs property...
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[21:19:03] <e^ipi> http://pastebin.ca/1228114
[21:19:08] <e^ipi> /Shared is my CIFS share
[21:19:15] <e^ipi> look at the top ACL'
[21:19:38] <e^ipi> i explicitly allow operations for my local user, and that ACL is inherited
[21:20:10] <mshadle> i think i just need to set the inherit property
[21:20:20] <e^ipi> and set up the top-level acl', yes
[21:21:39] <mshadle> got an example command? :P
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[21:23:02] <mshadle> chmod user:mike:full_set:file_inherit/dir_inherit:allow $dir ?
[21:24:05] <e^ipi> something like that, yeah
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[21:24:29] <mshadle> chmod A+user:mike:full_set:file_inherit/dir_inherit:allow $foo
[21:24:32] <mshadle> i think.
[21:24:34] <e^ipi> probably want to make it A+user:mike:blah:blah:allow whatever
[21:24:53] <e^ipi> err, yeah
[21:24:55] <e^ipi> what you said
[21:25:14] <mshadle> should ls -V show both:
[21:25:16] <mshadle> two lines
[21:25:16] <mshadle>     user:mike:rwxpdDaARWcCos:------I:allow
[21:25:17] <mshadle>               user:mike:rwxpdDaARWcCos:------I:allow
[21:25:20] <mshadle> for everything
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[21:25:55] <e^ipi> probably not but it doesn't break anything
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[21:26:31] <e^ipi> i've got a couple dirs with duplicated ACL's like that that i'm too lazy to fix
[21:28:02] <e^ipi> i don't know how they got there, but it's too much trouble to get rid of them so i don't
[21:28:28] <mshadle> ha
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[21:28:39] <mshadle> well, it appearsto be good
[21:29:09] <e^ipi> cool
[21:29:52] <e^ipi> yeah, that permission difference weirded me out when i first ran in to it
[21:30:13] <e^ipi> now that I know what it is, i understand why so i'm cool with it
[21:30:16] <mshadle> yeah not very cool!
[21:30:54] <e^ipi> well, the idea is that on your windows hosts you can do the 'right click > properties > permissions" thing and have it do the same thing as if it were Windows Server 2008 on the other end instead of Solaris
[21:31:22] <mshadle> yeah. i know there's a push for more advanced file stuff and all that jazz
[21:31:27] <e^ipi> rather than squashing your windows permissions down to circa 1968 unix perms
[21:31:33] <mshadle> but .. i'm coming from "i'm happy with ugo"
[21:33:06] <e^ipi> my only complaint with the way solaris handles nfs4/zfs acl's is that there's still no real way to make the permission set immutable like freebsd has
[21:33:28] <e^ipi> append-only is a useful thing but if it can be changed at runtime it's not really all that helpful
[21:33:38] <e^ipi> mind you with the rest of RBAC it's probably not that big of a deal
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[21:41:31] <ingenth1> anyone here familiar with the OpenSolaris 2008.05 BTS release?
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[21:52:00] <e^ipi> what about it?
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[21:59:26] <CIA-52> Matthew Ahrens <Matthew.Ahrens at Sun dot COM>: 6725668 want ::zfs_blkstats to show block type stats after scrub (fix kmdb)
[21:59:26] <CIA-52> Mark Shellenbaum <Mark.Shellenbaum at Sun dot COM>: 6754013 ZFS should always use KSID_OWNER when it's set
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[22:03:19] <fraggeln> CIA-52: zfs should be able to shrink :D
[22:03:25] <fraggeln> (yes, i know its a bot) :D
[22:04:37] <e^ipi> other filesystems don't make shrinking very easy
[22:04:50] <e^ipi> it is also a non-trivial task on ZFS given how ZFS lays out blocks
[22:05:03] <e^ipi> so, patches welcome... i'll see you in a couple years
[22:06:00] <sommerfeld> it's being worked on but (a) it's not something you want before it really works and (b) it's hard.
[22:06:10] <jbk> heh that was amusing -- just reading my mail (incl some opensolaris mailing lists) I noticed one of the guys posting an email is downstairs
[22:06:15] <oxygene> on hammer shrinking is trivial ;)
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[22:07:23] <jbk> so apparently it's more than just a field office..
[22:07:25] <_mary_kate_> e^ipi: filesystems don't, but volume managers do
[22:07:38] <e^ipi> true enough
[22:07:47] <jbk> well you can't shrink ufs
[22:07:55] <_mary_kate_> although i'd much rather see dynamic raidz growth than device removal
[22:08:02] <sommerfeld> and zfs lets you shrink a zvol
[22:08:04] <jbk> even vxfs doesn't always easily cooperate
[22:08:05] <_mary_kate_> (i guess the two are related)
[22:08:25] <_mary_kate_> jbk: well, if you have a 50GB vxfs on a 500GB vxvm, you can remove 200GB from the vm without touching the fs
[22:08:41] <jbk> though i've never seen people do that
[22:08:48] <trygvis> are there any tools to guess the encoding of a file?
[22:08:51] <jbk> generally volume == fs size (+ some very small buffer)
[22:08:52] <_mary_kate_> i don't think removing devices is a very common thing to do
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[22:09:46] <sommerfeld> the key underlying infrastructure needed is a way to move already-allocated blocks.
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[22:09:58] <rpage> hello all, i seem to be running in to an issue with vlan tagging between zone and global host
[22:10:43] <rpage> when i add two default gw to the global host, i seem to lose connection to my global host
[22:10:57] <rpage> and i can connect to my zone only
[22:11:03] <_mary_kate_> sommerfeld: in the case of growing a raidz,i would've thought variable-width stripes made it possible to do without moving any data - obviously not ideal, but it solves half the problem
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[22:11:27] <sommerfeld> once you have that it should be straightforward to do device removal, raidz-reshaping, rekeying of encrypted data, etc.,
[22:11:38] <rpage> is there an isse with solaris determining what gw to use when a packet what subnet
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[22:14:09] <sommerfeld> _mary_kate_: okay, so you make a mostly-full raidz2 wider by adding an empty block to every "row".  how do you use that space while maintaining the redundancy guarantee that you can lose any 2 disks w/o losing data?
[22:14:11] <rpage> is there any kind of fix for this
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[22:15:44] <oxygene> sommerfeld: by only using those blocks for new writes. eventually all old data is newly layed out
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[22:25:47] <jbk> raid relayout is tricky, though i think the solution is know, it's just needing block pointer rewrite working first
[22:26:05] <jbk> even veritas takes a long, long, long time to relayout volumes
[22:26:12] <sommerfeld> oxygene: but if you have (say) mostly static data in the pool, it will be a long time before you get to use all the new capacity
[22:26:44] <sommerfeld> block moving means you would get to use it sooner.
[22:27:08] <sommerfeld> (hypothetical example: my .mp3 collection)
[22:27:09] <oxygene> sommerfeld: sure, block moving is an operation that can happen online, over a long duration
[22:29:22] <oxygene> sommerfeld: alternatively, new writes are pushed primarily on the new disk, in the "parallel" places of the old data. that one gets recalculated on write, to make the parity data consistent again. of course, that would slow down further file access, but that would be solved by a defragmentation facility
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[22:34:34] <rpage> brb
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[22:37:43] <jbk> speaking of zfs, i've been meaning to post a message (if i don't forget the next time i have my mail client open) about any plans for the audit action (most relevant w/ zfs, but technically not limited to it i don't think)
[22:37:49] <jbk> in ACLs
[22:44:27] <cypromis> hmmm
[22:44:40] <cypromis> recompiling coolstack php on nevada 97 fails miserably
[22:45:38] <e^ipi> yeah, i think a lot of the build scripts assume that you're at Sun, on the CSK team
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[22:48:39] <cypromis> crap, I need mcrypt
[22:49:54] <amf> 1) How would I list the hard drives installed? 2) Can I mount a partitino of type UFS (FreeBSD's to be exact)?
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[22:54:10] <codestr0m> cypromis: php? :P
[22:54:45] <cypromis> yah
[22:54:51] <cypromis> customer wants magento on solaris
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[22:56:38] <Vonor> hi
[22:57:03] <Vonor> how can i becom root on the livecd?
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[22:57:56] <e^ipi> don't?
[22:57:59] <e^ipi> just use pfexec
[22:58:08] <Vonor> pfexec?
[22:58:20] <e^ipi> yes
[22:58:25] <Vonor> whats what?
[22:58:48] <e^ipi> essentially, the RBAC equivalent of 'sudo'
[22:58:56] <amf> Vonor: Are you referring to the login/password? (I too don't know how to do the console login)
[22:59:02] <e^ipi> RBAC is smarter than sudo, but is solaris specific, so we use that
[22:59:07] <Vonor> ah, good
[22:59:18] <CIA-52> Krishna Elango <Krishna.Elango at Sun dot COM>: 6611254 no pcie error handling on various x86 platforms, 6499336 pcie_pci should use MSIs
[22:59:26] <Vonor> amf, i meant sudo :D
[23:00:03] <jbk> i'm curious w/ some interop issues w/ windows.. i've been told that AD doesn't work well (performance-wise) when accessed as an LDAP server
[23:00:28] <jbk> i'm curious if anyone's tried using the *solaris ldap client w/ AD
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[23:33:46] <ICeDX> hey
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[23:59:25] <CIA-52> Tom Erickson <Tom.Erickson at Sun dot COM>: 6727389 ::walk kmem followed by q makes mdb dumps core
[23:59:26] <CIA-52> Vuong Nguyen <Vuong.Nguyen at Sun dot COM>: PSARC 2008/605 Extensions to fmd for LDOMs IO, 6540055 ETM enhancements for sun4v root domains, 6540058 libldom enhancements for sun4v root domains, 6540080 topology enhancements for sun4v root domains, 6722455 need an interface for transports to log ereports, 6723604 need an interface for a module to request fmd to checkpoint, 6742685 increase client.thrlim for etm
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