October 2, 2008 
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October 2, 2008 [00:04:33] *** zarqman__ has joined #opensolaris [00:06:05] *** luc^ has quit IRC [00:07:55] *** _teo_ has quit IRC [00:08:06] *** zarqman has quit IRC [00:08:29] *** storycrafter has quit IRC [00:11:53] *** teknoprep has quit IRC [00:12:07] *** teknomega has joined #opensolaris [00:12:10] *** teknoprep has joined #opensolaris [00:12:12] <teknoprep> hi all [00:12:22] <teknoprep> i know all has not been seen for some time now [00:13:32] <teknoprep> is there a howto for installing opensolaris on a ZFS mirror for root partition from the community edition ? [00:15:58] *** zarqman_ has quit IRC [00:16:17] *** xtrondo has joined #opensolaris [00:17:43] *** Gman_ has joined #opensolaris [00:17:54] *** Gman has quit IRC [00:18:33] <sickness> teknoprep: use the text installer [00:18:41] <sickness> it will ask for the option to do a zfs root/boot install [00:20:58] <teknoprep> i can't get past the network configuration on the server i am using [00:21:04] <teknoprep> i hangs [00:21:27] <teknoprep> tommorow i am going to see if i can install without networking setup at installation [00:21:34] <teknoprep> and move on from the wizard [00:22:00] <Rocket2DMn> how much memory does os usually use out of the box? [00:23:10] <teknoprep> 200megs ? [00:23:17] <teknoprep> depends on what apps you open [00:23:22] <teknoprep> depends on if you have X installed [00:23:31] <teknoprep> depends on how much RAM you have [00:25:06] *** crichardso has quit IRC [00:25:38] <Rocket2DMn> i have X installed and running, and its using quite a bit of RAM [00:25:52] *** jbasse has quit IRC [00:25:55] <teknoprep> its how unix uses RAM [00:25:59] <teknoprep> its not like windows [00:26:17] <Rocket2DMn> i have 1 GB available, im runnign updates with the package manager and am using 850-900 MB according to the system monitor [00:27:15] <Rocket2DMn> whereas a default linux install uses well under 250 [00:27:53] <teknoprep> uhuh [00:27:59] <McBofh> teknoprep: you need to use the text-mode installer from build 90 onwards. At the appropriate point it will prompt whether you want to use UFS or ZFS for your root [00:28:15] <Rocket2DMn> my sentiments exactly teknoprep [00:28:41] <Rocket2DMn> idk where all the RAM is being used though [00:28:51] <teknoprep> Rocket2DMn, try the command TOP ? [00:28:57] <teknoprep> Rocket2DMn, or .. ps -aux [00:29:00] <seanmcg> prstat -a -s size will tell you [00:29:17] <seanmcg> don't use top. doesn't tell the truth on solaris [00:29:35] <McBofh> Rocket2DMn: perhaps you're labouring under the assumption that you must have unallocated ram on Solaris [00:29:35] <Rocket2DMn> idk where "top" is in the system, and i have to use ps -ef, aux doesnt work in solaris afaik [00:29:45] <McBofh> Rocket2DMn: use prstat [00:29:45] <seanmcg> use prstat instead of top [00:30:11] <tsoome1> mm does any of them actually take account of shared pages;) [00:30:15] *** stux has joined #opensolaris [00:30:26] <McBofh> tsoome1: prstat does the accounting properly [00:30:40] <Rocket2DMn> well the system is a little slow to respond, thats why it bothers me [00:31:11] <Rocket2DMn> prstat -a -s - what is the -s? i dont have a key to tag on there [00:31:26] <Rocket2DMn> oic, use size [00:31:58] <Rocket2DMn> packagemanager is taking 350MB?! [00:32:07] <McBofh> it's python [00:32:13] <McBofh> and interpreted [00:32:15] <Rocket2DMn> well played, sir [00:32:21] <teknoprep> McBofh, my system is pretty much a full AMD system.. dual opteron 250.. its about 3 years old... wouldn't that have been supported by opensolaris yet ? [00:32:23] <McBofh> just being truthi [00:32:24] <Rocket2DMn> even then, that is excessive [00:32:29] <teknoprep> McBofh, that shouldn't have too many problems ? [00:32:42] <McBofh> teknoprep: hang on a sec, where did that question come from? [00:33:02] <teknoprep> McBofh, well i can't get past the text installer portion that starts at networking.. pretty much the first few phases [00:33:26] <teknoprep> McBofh, i'll do this tommorow.. .let me relax as i don't have access tot he box from here. [00:33:28] <McBofh> teknoprep: so which question are you unable to answer to the installer's satisfaction? [00:33:51] <Rocket2DMn> I have another concern. I installed updates last night and this morning. After I shut down the system and rebooted when I came home, I had to do the updates again, like they never happened. Did I miss something? [00:33:52] <teknoprep> McBofh, it never gets past the portion of .. .please wait... after i hit F2 to confirm network settings [00:34:25] <McBofh> does it remain at the "Please wait..."? or something else? [00:35:35] *** spiki has joined #opensolaris [00:35:37] <teknoprep> McBofh, it remains there [00:36:07] <teknoprep> McBofh, the first portion [00:36:25] <teknoprep> McBofh, please wait... pretty much forever [00:38:20] *** capaz has quit IRC [00:39:51] *** capaz has joined #opensolaris [00:43:57] *** Therion has quit IRC [00:45:00] *** medar has quit IRC [00:49:11] *** IvanR_ has quit IRC [00:49:58] *** dunc has quit IRC [00:53:27] *** rrrand has quit IRC [01:00:38] *** bsdbandit has joined #opensolaris [01:00:46] <victori_> is there any sane update path for zones w/ IPKG? [01:01:07] <bsdbandit> im looking to create slices in opensolaris do i need to do after installation [01:01:10] <bsdbandit> ? [01:01:11] <victori_> aside from running pkg list | grep "u-" | awk '{ print $1 }' | xargs pkg install ... [01:01:19] <victori_> which obviously blows ;-P [01:04:30] <McBofh> bsdbandit: OpenSolaris2008.05? you should be using ZFS, in which case you need to update your thinking about what a filesystem needs :) [01:05:00] <McBofh> victori_: somebody mentioned to me that you should be able to use a "pkg img-update" (or whatever that command line is) inside your zone [01:05:09] <McBofh> but I haven't tried that myself, so take it with a grain of salt [01:05:14] <McBofh> and a zfs snapshot first! [01:05:24] <McBofh> bsdbandit: www.opensolaris.org/os/community/zfs is a good place to start [01:05:32] <victori_> not possible, zfs features are not accessible from zones. [01:05:51] <TomJ> you snapshot it from the global, thus backing up the zone prior to messing with it [01:05:51] <victori_> image-update requires access to zfs snapshots [01:05:55] <TomJ> oh [01:05:59] <TomJ> scrap that then. [01:06:21] <victori_> unless you can some how authorize the zone to have access to zfs via zoneadm [01:06:24] <victori_> zonecfg** [01:06:55] <TomJ> you can do that, but it requires delegating it to the zone ocmpletely (disapperas from the global), so I doubt that works for its own zonepath [01:10:19] <McBofh> victori_: ah, right [01:10:26] <McBofh> like I said, I haven't tried that myself [01:10:40] *** spiki has quit IRC [01:10:45] <McBofh> you probably need to query indiana-discuss then [01:10:47] <McBofh> or zones-discuss [01:11:39] <victori_> i tried [01:11:42] <victori_> no one has an answer [01:11:46] <victori_> so I am guessing no [01:11:57] <victori_> its like no one uses zones at all [01:12:15] *** zenbalrog has quit IRC [01:12:37] <e^ipi> i use zones, but not on indiana [01:14:23] <TomJ> me too [01:14:23] <phrost> any idea how you get indiana to generate the proper menu.lst for xVM? [01:14:33] <e^ipi> *shrug* [01:14:46] <phrost> it installed the xen kernel in /boot/ but it seems like the only thing missing is the grub config [01:16:08] <e^ipi> phrost: here's from my SXCE machine [01:16:08] <e^ipi> http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/1216296 [01:16:12] *** edgy__ has joined #opensolaris [01:16:16] <e^ipi> other than that you're on your own [01:17:03] <phrost> i'm wondering if i'm missing a package that's supposed to do it [01:17:13] <phrost> i think it only installed SUNWxvm and SUNWlibvirt [01:17:22] <blahee> woaah! snv99 does detech EM64T capable Atom now as 64bit CPU :) [01:18:23] *** logic855 has quit IRC [01:19:15] <seanmcg> phrost, try this blog: http://trevoro.ca/blog/2008/05/07/getting-xvm-to-work-in-opensolaris-200805/ [01:19:39] <seanmcg> there SUNWvirtinst too [01:19:49] <phrost> thanks e^ipi and seanmcg [01:21:59] *** jfisc has joined #opensolaris [01:22:09] <phrost> ahh i missed SUNWxvmhvm i believe [01:25:01] <dsop> hmm does someone know if all recent solaris systems use ICONV_CONST when compiling the packages? [01:25:51] *** yippi has quit IRC [01:26:02] *** asarch has joined #opensolaris [01:26:41] *** gm152 has joined #opensolaris [01:27:58] <dsop> well, or if the second argument in /usr/include/iconv.h extern size_t iconv(..) is _const_ char* or just char * [01:31:08] *** edgy has joined #opensolaris [01:35:03] *** ShadowHntr has joined #opensolaris [01:38:38] *** sah-work has quit IRC [01:39:12] *** derchris^ has quit IRC [01:39:46] *** derchris has joined #opensolaris [01:39:56] *** art-vandelay has joined #opensolaris [01:40:12] *** sah-work has joined #opensolaris [01:41:39] *** jafari has joined #opensolaris [01:42:43] <jafari> in openboot prom, when you run format and choose a hdd and run analyze than run verify, if everything passes that means the disk is fine? if i gett any errors that means disk is bad? [01:49:17] *** edgy__ has quit IRC [01:53:41] <jamesd> yeap... google harddrive click of death [01:53:51] *** coffman has joined #opensolaris [01:54:08] *** edgy_ has joined #opensolaris [01:57:41] [01:59:13] *** Dyna has quit IRC [02:01:04] <blahee> h3sp4wn: intel D945GCLF is likely ~$70 [02:01:35] <blahee> D945GCLF2 is true dual core (when they will be available) and likely some $10-20 more expensive [02:02:15] <blahee> i have had this D945GCLF2 in order and still not received (in Finland tho, which is middle of nowhere :) [02:03:25] <blahee> (i am just installing this SXCE99 to see if the integrated NIC is working now too. It's pretty weird little RTL8101E) [02:03:57] <e^ipi> h3sp4wn: yeah, atoms are cheap [02:04:16] <e^ipi> i thought of shoving one in my fileserver but I can't find one that eats more than 4 gigs of ram [02:04:22] <e^ipi> ( I have 8 currently ) [02:04:40] <blahee> the sad thing for this cute low power Atom with this intel board is that it's bolted next to 22W TDP chipset :) [02:05:56] *** twisti_home has quit IRC [02:05:58] *** art-vandelay has quit IRC [02:08:18] *** Ol_ has joined #opensolaris [02:10:52] <h3sp4wn> blahee: / e^ipi - I was thinking on an eee-pc type thing [02:11:30] <h3sp4wn> (I thought they were designed for that - never thought of it for a server) [02:11:49] *** edgy has quit IRC [02:11:53] <blahee> h3sp4wn: if that rtl is working now, the Acer Aspire One does have same ethernet, so it just might work too [02:13:10] *** nachox has joined #opensolaris [02:13:16] <e^ipi> h3sp4wn: s/server/file appliance/ [02:13:17] *** houst0n-_ has joined #opensolaris [02:13:18] <blahee> (and if it's working on this intel board, i'll try to install SXCE99 to Aspire One next) [02:14:14] <e^ipi> i wouldn't have it on a full real server [02:14:30] <e^ipi> but my (2 users) home file pit it'd be fine [02:15:15] *** pramz has joined #opensolaris [02:18:32] *** houst0n- has quit IRC [02:19:22] *** xtrondo has quit IRC [02:20:42] *** nitrile has quit IRC [02:21:57] *** niq has quit IRC [02:23:02] *** stevel has quit IRC [02:23:21] *** ShadowHntr has quit IRC [02:23:50] *** Aria has quit IRC [02:24:45] <edgy_> Hi, if I want to know what each auth e.g auth=solaris.admin.usermgr.pswd would do if added to a user, where can I find this? [02:25:37] <e^ipi> /etc/security/auth_attr ? [02:26:47] <edgy_> e^ipi: I mean I added that auth to auth_attr and I expected it would allow the user to change others' passwords but that didn't work, so what can I read to understand why [02:27:22] <edgy_> e^ipi: I now have a somewhat reasonable understanding of rbac so I am not missing the basics ;) [02:28:03] <edgy_> e^ipi: I also added auth=solaris.admin.usermgr.* to the user in user_attr and still he cannot manage passwords using pfexec [02:28:28] *** rab has quit IRC [02:28:38] <blahee> yeap. rge0 is working with this D945GCLF now [02:28:44] <edgy_> I already now know how allow the user to manage passwords using the User Security profile [02:29:03] <edgy_> e^ipi: but I want to practice more with auths now [02:29:45] <edgy_> e^ipi: hope you understand me and btw thanks CosmicDJ for the nice links you passed [02:30:58] <blahee> h3sp4wn: i'll test now this Aspire One as the rge is working with other board -> that would be affordable netbook [02:32:40] *** asarch has quit IRC [02:33:26] <phrost> blahee: i had all kinds of problems witha an RTL8169, mine came up but would not do TCP/UDP, only ARP/ICMP, adding set ip:dohwcksum = 0 to /etc/system fixed it for me if you have that issue on any of your boards [02:34:12] *** Odin- has quit IRC [02:35:26] <jbk> evening [02:36:51] <edgy_> e^ipi: do you think there is any thing wrong in my question or you just don't know the answer? [02:37:03] <blahee> phrost: just the symtoms i had earlier while trying to use this integrated chip. anything more complex than ping just didn't work [02:37:32] <e^ipi> i wasn't aware you asked a question [02:38:33] <blahee> (now the integrated GMA950, or what ever intel graphics it is, is now working :) [02:38:40] <edgy_> e^ipi: huh! well my question is what auth=solaris.admin.usermgr.pswd would grant the user to whom this auth is added [02:41:46] <phrost> blahee: i think it's motherboard manufactuers using some cheap RTL chips that don't support proper hardware tcp/udp offloading [02:42:16] <e^ipi> yeah, you'll also need solaris.auth.usermgr.grant IIRC [02:42:34] <blahee> phrost: maybe so, but driver should be able to detect this. Then again, they are constantly making "new revision" and ...... [02:43:01] <phrost> yeah, there is an opensolaris bug open for it already [02:43:30] <e^ipi> edgy_: also try smuser(1M) rather than passwd(1) [02:43:36] <blahee> phrost: i just don't quite get it why didn't _intel_ department use _intel_ chip in this _intel_ board (maybe their chips are just too exepensive :) [02:44:05] <e^ipi> blahee: that's almost certainly the case [02:44:16] <phrost> e1000 is great :) [02:44:33] <phrost> ive never had any problems with my broadcom gigabit's either, only realtek [02:44:36] <blahee> http://global.msi.com.tw/index.php?func=newsdesc&news_no=674 [02:44:42] <blahee> that does have dual e1000 in it [02:44:54] <blahee> no idea about the price tho :/ [02:45:18] <jbk> i don't suppose if anyone knows if ff3 is improved in b99 vs 98? (wondering if it's worth upgrading or just waiting) [02:45:22] <phrost> ahh, my cheap embedded boards don't have gigabit [02:45:33] <phrost> i'm using via c7's for those [02:45:59] <blahee> phrost: this RTL8101E is actually PCI-e gigabit chip, but the PHY isn't [02:46:39] *** h3sp4wn has quit IRC [02:46:59] <edgy_> e^ipi: there is auth named solaris.auth.usermgr.grant here [02:48:28] <phrost> can you add drives to expand a RAID-Z volume after its made? it says you can add vdevs- are vdevs groups of disks or can they be a single disk? [02:49:27] <blahee> phrost: you cannot expand raidz or raidz2 vdevs, you can expand the pool by adding more vdevs tho [02:49:43] <jamesd> phrost, you can add as many raidz groups as you like, but you can't grown an existing group. [02:49:58] <edgy_> e^ipi: my problem is how can I tell what each auth would do, what's the manual or book that shows it all [02:50:37] <blahee> phrost: and i lied. You can expand a raiz vdev by doing one by one replace for all physical devices in it. exporting/importing the pool (at least it did not do the expand w/o it like few months ago) [02:52:38] <e^ipi> i don't think there is one beyond the long descriptions [02:54:27] *** not-me-guv has joined #opensolaris [02:56:16] *** chumphries has quit IRC [02:57:31] <edgy_> e^ipi: then the description for usermgr.pswd says "Change password" and I added that and still cannot change passwords so if you were me where would you look? [03:00:42] <ottom> edgy_: point a browser at <file:///usr/lib/help/auths/locale/C/AuthUserMgrPswd.html> [03:01:06] <edgy_> ottom: this is exactly what I am doing now and it seems very nice ... [03:01:44] <ottom> looks to me like these auths are all for use within the Solaris Management Console. I've never used it. [03:02:01] <e^ipi> edgy_: note "it grants the authorization to change user and role passwords, in the Users tools of the Solaris Management Console. " [03:02:03] <edgy_> ottom: exactly I am testing this now ... thanks for the hints [03:02:05] <e^ipi> so you'd use smuser [03:02:09] <e^ipi> not passwd(1) [03:02:19] <e^ipi> hate smc... [03:02:33] <edgy_> e^ipi: of course you are right but it takes me time to understand this ... [03:02:42] <e^ipi> no worries [03:05:05] <wonko2> ok, I was told about discover, so I went looking. It's SPARC only, isn't it? [03:06:34] *** capaz has quit IRC [03:08:38] <edgy_> e^ipi: ottom: thanks a lot. I now can say I understand rbac and can find my way to a _reasonable_ extent through it. Thaaaanks [03:12:29] <edgy_> but wait not quite ;) [03:13:03] <edgy_> e.g. when I add uid=0 or euid=0 for the auths both would run the process as root, so what difference does it make? [03:13:45] <edgy_> I am speaking about exec_attr [03:14:15] <edgy_> I know euid is like suid but still it's not clear [03:14:32] <edgy_> just this one and I would consider myself a guru ;) [03:16:22] <nachox> e^ipi, thanks, you brought back some memories... bad ones about smc... [03:16:27] <ottom> 'man exec_attr' says: [03:16:31] <jafari> why is this showing i have 3 hdd when i only have two [03:16:40] <jafari> http://pastebin.com/d4e4bd151 [03:16:48] <ottom> Commands designated with euid run with the effective UID indicated, which is similar to setting the setuid bit on an executable file. [03:17:03] <ottom> Commands designated with uid run with both the real and effective UIDs. [03:17:34] <nachox> jafari, the last one is a cd drive [03:18:27] <edgy_> ottom: yes I read that but can you show me an example that illustrates the difference [03:20:04] <edgy_> ottom: e.g Printer Management profile has euid=lp;uid=lp so what? why not only uid=lp?!! [03:20:05] *** inchworm has joined #opensolaris [03:21:10] *** edgy_ is now known as edgy [03:21:17] <ottom> that seems broken to me, the 'euid' is pointless [03:21:27] * edgy feels my questions now make more sense than before ;) [03:21:37] * edgy feels his questions now make more sense than before ;) [03:22:20] <edgy> ottom: still what difference would it make if I uid=0 or euid=0? [03:22:26] <ottom> using 'euid' would let the program flip back to running as the original user, but offhand I can't think of a case where that would be useful [03:24:03] <ottom> maybe if you wrote a program that knew about authorizations there might be a scenario where it would do something under the modified euid but then flip back and continue as the oroiginal user. [03:24:12] <edgy> ottom: may I dare guess that there is some programming logic on the program or process to let it behave in different ways depending on euid or uid? [03:24:38] <edgy> ottom: ok reasonable [03:24:41] <ottom> yes, possibly. [03:24:58] <ottom> like I said, I don't know of any real examples [03:27:22] <ottom> the exec_attr man page mentions that some shells behave differently if their euid is not equal to their real uid, but I don't know how you'd use that to do anything particularly interesting [03:27:23] <edgy> ok bye guys I can now sleep with nice dreams ;) [03:27:56] *** edgy has left #opensolaris [03:28:29] *** comay has quit IRC [03:29:20] <inchworm> so stupid problem.. i have an opensolaris student pack (couple dvds, live dvd and a support disk with a vm, openoffice, etc) [03:29:47] <inchworm> probelm is the machine i'm installing too has a Via Rhine network card. I have the driver.. but there isn't a compiler? [03:30:02] <inchworm> i don't see CC nor gcc [03:30:27] <e^ipi> /usr/sfw/bin/gcc if you like slow code, /opt/SUNWspro/bin if you prefer faster code [03:30:48] <alanc> no room for compiler on the livecd, should be on the repo in the DVD or in the repo on pkg.opensolaris.org [03:31:01] <e^ipi> alanc: i assume he's talking about the old SXDE dvd kits [03:31:20] <alanc> e^ipi: oh, I was assuming OpenSolaris 2008.05 Back-to-School [03:31:20] <inchworm> nope, opensolairs 2008.5 [03:31:28] <inchworm> yah that one! [03:32:00] <blahee> inchworm: the driver is from http://homepage2.nifty.com/mrym3/taiyodo/eng/ ? If yes -> those packages does have precompiled modules in it [03:32:05] <inchworm> so i need a package, thanks i wasn't sure if the compiler was somewhere [03:32:11] <inchworm> yah, already have the driver [03:32:24] <inchworm> i was getting ready to compile it when i couldn't find a compielr... [03:32:43] <blahee> inchworm: are you sure that there aren't precompiled drivers in? [03:33:04] <inchworm> via rhine? (the vfe driver) [03:33:05] <alanc> from the repo you'd want to install ss-dev for the Sun Studio compiler & all the headers/tools or gcc-dev for the gcc equivalent - I've not actually seen the back-to-school dvd to know how to getit from there, would hope they had docs [03:33:08] *** Tpenta has quit IRC [03:33:25] <e^ipi> alanc: i thought the BTS kit had packages in them [03:33:26] <blahee> inchworm: like in i386/amd64 subdirs [03:33:34] <inchworm> lemee look [03:33:45] <e^ipi> should be "sun studio" something or othre [03:33:47] <e^ipi> *other [03:34:00] *** rrrand has joined #opensolaris [03:34:46] <e^ipi> yep, its' got sunstudio and gcc [03:34:58] <inchworm> on the virtualbox image i think... [03:35:04] <inchworm> not on the live dvd [03:35:07] <inchworm> (that i've found) [03:35:19] <e^ipi> no, not on the livecd [03:35:21] <e^ipi> the other side [03:35:29] <e^ipi> the resource DVD [03:35:49] <inchworm> not that i could find.. its a package already installed in the virtualbox iamge i think [03:36:16] <e^ipi> *shrug* [03:36:19] <e^ipi> i know nothing [03:37:08] <inchworm> the back of the little sleeve lists it has a sub point of the virtual image *shrug* [03:37:44] <e^ipi> i'm not saying you're wrong [03:38:50] *** Tpenta has joined #opensolaris [03:39:21] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Tpenta [03:39:47] *** axisys has joined #opensolaris [03:41:13] <inchworm> looks like there is a pre compiled driver... [03:41:24] <inchworm> don't know what it was compiled with, but eh :) [03:42:45] <inchworm> i'm betting gcc as the i386 one uses gcc (i'm on amd64) [03:43:04] <jafari> when can rouding error cause and issue? [03:43:14] <jafari> when you doing disk paritioning [03:44:30] <e^ipi> how quaint [03:44:34] * e^ipi hugs zfs [03:44:38] <nachox> hehe [03:44:43] <nachox> jafari, yes [03:45:04] <jafari> 1MB [03:45:23] * nachox looks at e^ipi and reminds him you still need to partition the drive if you're booting from zfs [03:45:27] <e^ipi> zpool create mypool mirror c0d0 c0d1 [03:45:29] <e^ipi> hooray! [03:45:48] *** h3sp4wn has joined #opensolaris [03:45:53] <e^ipi> nachox: installer abstracts that away for you [03:46:18] <e^ipi> and as for mirroring, http://malsserver.blogspot.com/2008/08/mirroring-resolved-correct-way.html [03:47:50] *** Rocket2DMn has quit IRC [03:48:52] <nachox> good point [03:49:44] <jafari> what does rounding error mean? i seen 1MB [03:51:45] <jafari> going to bed, if anyone going to answer me, please pm me so i can see iT LATER [03:51:48] <nachox> how many meanings can you find for "rounding error"? [03:51:48] <jafari> good night [03:53:16] *** stradi has quit IRC [03:53:39] <inchworm> yay, network up! thanks guys [03:57:20] *** bsdbandi1 has joined #opensolaris [03:57:21] *** bsdbandit has quit IRC [03:59:25] *** Luria has joined #opensolaris [04:00:22] <Luria> is there a binary tarball for freenx other than the one hosted at kraftek? [04:00:38] <Luria> 'cause the kraftek one seems to be very down [04:03:39] *** jerivard has left #opensolaris [04:07:23] *** fr4g has joined #opensolaris [04:07:46] *** jfisc has quit IRC [04:09:50] <Luria> never mind, found it [04:10:02] <phrost> what advantage does freenx have over vnc or rdp? [04:10:32] <Luria> built in ssh use and very efficient x compression [04:10:37] <Luria> i do like rdp too [04:10:51] <phrost> never used it, just curious [04:11:11] <Luria> i use all three, but for different purposes [04:11:39] <Luria> also, nxclient maintains an x session, so you can resume later, like screen [04:12:01] <e^ipi> or like SSGD [04:12:02] *** lesterc has joined #opensolaris [04:12:08] <e^ipi> *nod* [04:12:10] <e^ipi> try it [04:12:13] <Luria> the ssh stuff is neither here nor there for me, because i vpn to my home computer [04:12:14] <Luria> heh [04:12:19] <e^ipi> srsly [04:12:24] <e^ipi> it's really cool [04:12:27] <Luria> e^ipi, how much? [04:12:33] <e^ipi> about $100 [04:12:41] <e^ipi> worth every penny [04:12:44] <Luria> i like my free solutions :-) [04:13:05] <e^ipi> i like good solutions, free comes after [04:13:17] <nachox> support is also cool [04:13:26] <lesterc> nachox: what is? [04:13:38] <nachox> i like being able to point at someone else when thngs break [04:14:10] <Luria> i like things that don't break in the first place. [04:15:01] <Luria> and to be honest, ive never had any problems with vnc, rdp, xrdp, or freenx, once you get the way each one works [04:15:13] <nachox> things WILL break [04:15:25] <nachox> the real question is when [04:15:50] <Luria> ok, but if they break at the heat death of the universe, i'm ok with that. [04:16:15] <nachox> that's not realistic [04:16:42] <e^ipi> not actually sure why sun's charging for SSGD [04:17:14] <Luria> i also prefer oss solutions [04:17:27] <e^ipi> once again, comes after 'good' [04:17:36] <nachox> good always comes first in my book [04:17:48] <Luria> oss is part and parcel of good [04:17:51] <nachox> opensource is just a tiebreaker in most cases [04:18:03] <Luria> not a religious thing, but i appreciate it [04:18:05] <e^ipi> Luria: it's really not... there's a whole lot of shit open source out there [04:18:34] *** axisys has quit IRC [04:18:49] <Luria> ceteris paribus, of course [04:19:11] <Luria> there is a lot of *shit* out there irrespective of license [04:19:17] <phrost> i wish they'd open source xvm ops manager :P [04:19:29] <nachox> havent they? [04:20:04] <Luria> sigh, just used elinks to dl freenx to my solaris box [04:20:16] <Luria> ive been using elinks a little too much lately [04:20:45] <phrost> i dont think so [04:21:00] <Luria> ? [04:21:17] <phrost> 21:24 < nachox> havent they? [04:21:22] <Luria> ah [04:21:48] <Luria> i thought i was about to be lectured on the merits of text mode web browsing [04:21:57] <e^ipi> phrost: it will be [04:22:03] <e^ipi> in progress. [04:22:09] <phrost> yeah i'd be the last one to lecture you on that [04:22:14] <phrost> firefox to wget is your friend [04:22:47] <Luria> firefox is great, except im trying to get freenx on my solaris box for a reason... :-) [04:23:00] <phrost> somebody needs to compete with vmware virtualcenter [04:23:12] <phrost> only real challenger is microsoft hyper-v, and hyper-v is a joke [04:24:06] <e^ipi> phrost: ops center will be open soon enough [04:24:32] <TomJ> will ops centre be free? [04:25:05] <phrost> i forgot one, oracle knocked off xen, something called oracle vm [04:25:08] <phrost> never tried it though [04:25:53] <Luria> ok, im out, bbl [04:26:04] <e^ipi> TomJ: presumably that's what open source implies [04:26:19] *** Luria has quit IRC [04:26:31] <TomJ> Sun has plenty of non-open source products [04:26:35] <TomJ> That's good that it will be, though. [04:30:22] *** asarch has joined #opensolaris [04:34:03] <nachox> not really rh is popensource and not free [04:35:01] <nachox> s/p// [04:35:32] <e^ipi> true enough [04:41:03] *** dnm has joined #opensolaris [04:49:39] *** not-me-guv has quit IRC [04:52:26] * sstallion yawns [04:55:02] *** evocallaghan has joined #opensolaris [04:55:03] *** zenbalrog has joined #opensolaris [04:55:14] *** evocallaghan has left #opensolaris [04:56:39] <sstallion> e^ipi: around ? [04:58:15] <jbk> more rectangular i think [04:59:09] <sstallion> figures [04:59:39] <sstallion> e^ipi: think you can talk someone in website or tools to expedite the request I submitted last night to nuke the old hg repos? [04:59:43] <jbk> btw i'll try to do the readme while i'm on the plane up to minnesota [04:59:58] <jbk> this weekend [05:00:29] <sstallion> cool [05:00:52] <sstallion> meh I need to write something up about the changes and put it somewhere [05:01:33] <jbk> just a description of the drivers and such? [05:02:21] <sstallion> yeah [05:02:24] <sstallion> most changes to the build system [05:02:34] <sstallion> I ended up cleaning up a lot [05:02:59] <sstallion> i'm still torn on my last changeset [05:03:18] <sstallion> I dropped the intel and sparc dirs like ON and consolidated it all into one makefile in the driver root [05:03:52] <sstallion> so rather than building obj64 and friends under sparc/ or intel/ its just under the root [05:03:58] <sstallion> not sure whether i like that or not [05:04:27] <sstallion> I don't *think* that you would specify different options between intel and sparc (at least I've never had too), otherwise it could be a problem [05:04:41] *** coffman_ has joined #opensolaris [05:04:50] *** bsdbandi1 has quit IRC [05:17:26] *** coffman has quit IRC [05:20:13] *** ninjaslim has quit IRC [05:27:13] *** nachox has quit IRC [05:39:21] *** gm152 has quit IRC [05:43:31] *** ninjaslim has joined #opensolaris [05:46:34] *** fr4g has quit IRC [05:48:24] <slash^> out of curiosity... would you guys recommend using SXCE in a semi prod enviro ? [05:48:31] <slash^> heh i know thats an out there question [05:48:40] <_mary_kate_> i wouldn't use sxce for anything except a desktop or a test environment [05:49:26] <slash^> hmm i want to take advantage of opensol with this j4200, and it looks to me that SXCE can be jumpstarted? so i dont get all the crap from 2008.5 [05:50:17] <slash^> what about opensol 2008.5 if i decide to keep all the crud, is that somewhat prod worthy ? [05:50:26] <_mary_kate_> SXCE includes a lot more than 2008.05 [05:50:35] <slash^> yeah... all the bits i want L O L [05:50:51] <_mary_kate_> are you using a 2GB system disk or something? it's been a while since i had a problem with too much software being installed [05:51:17] <slash^> nah, i just hate having all the extras installed when it wont be used.. no need [05:51:47] <_mary_kate_> so you spend all this effort on removing something that's irrelevant and doing no harm? seems like a strange way to do it [05:52:03] <_mary_kate_> anyway, 2008.05 installs _less_ than sxce, so if that's your primary concen, that would be a better choice [05:52:48] <slash^> but prod worthy ? [05:53:03] <slash^> effectibly i just want to use comstar to share out iscsi luns to our servers [05:53:07] <_mary_kate_> it's the same code as SXCE, i wouldn't expect it to be any less reliable [05:53:25] <slash^> thats all this box is for [05:53:26] <_mary_kate_> the iscsi target in S10 doesn't work for you? [05:53:54] <slash^> yeah it does.. [05:54:57] <slash^> but i would like to play with iser and a few other nifty things like the AVS [05:55:02] <slash^> which i dont believe is part of sol10 [05:55:21] <_mary_kate_> AVS is available, just not part of the OS [06:03:14] <_mary_kate_> can someone explain why this zfs recv fails? http://rafb.net/p/bLMw0i31.html [06:03:38] *** Tilt has joined #OpenSolaris [06:05:18] *** Tilt has quit IRC [06:06:06] *** freakazoid0223 has quit IRC [06:07:05] *** chumphries has joined #opensolaris [06:10:25] *** Tilt has joined #opensolaris [06:10:46] <Tilt> ohh ohh [06:10:49] <Tilt> 99 came out ? [06:13:37] *** insomnia has left #OpenSolaris [06:15:45] <alanc> yesterday [06:16:55] <Tilt> orly.... [06:17:03] * Tilt updates [06:17:21] <Tilt> lotsa new fix's ? [06:18:29] *** chumphries has quit IRC [06:27:57] *** victori_ has quit IRC [06:32:23] <McBofh> Tilt: http://dlc.sun.com/osol/on/downloads/b99/on-changelog-b99.html [06:35:11] *** jmcp has joined #opensolaris [06:37:12] <Tilt> i just red them [06:37:17] <Tilt> read [06:38:25] <e^ipi> don't really need a play-by-play [06:38:27] *** airjump has joined #opensolaris [06:39:11] *** spanther has joined #opensolaris [06:39:57] *** zarqman__ has quit IRC [06:40:35] [06:41:54] <McBofh> auf English, bitte [06:44:10] <spanther> I've got a Problem with my Intel WiFi Wireless 4965AGN Solution. It is recognized by OpenSolaris and the NetworkManager shows Networks including mine too, but when i try to connect and input my passphrase it just jumps back to the NetworkViewer after some Time and doesn't connect properly. [06:45:00] <spanther> sorry McBofh :( I forgot about english here [06:45:22] *** mikl has quit IRC [06:45:25] <McBofh> nowurries :) [06:46:36] <McBofh> can't help you, i'm sorry [06:47:30] <spanther> no problem :( Well cable Network works fine but i would prefer wireless because of its mobility features :) [06:52:57] *** victori_ has joined #opensolaris [06:54:06] *** icmp_ has quit IRC [06:54:42] <Tilt> does the message log say anything ? [06:55:59] <spanther> i don't know about message log. can you please be more specific? [06:56:10] <kRutOn> does SXCE not ask UFS/ZFS question if you're not in text mode? [06:56:44] <Tilt> tail -f /var/log/syslog [06:56:51] <McBofh> no [06:56:54] <McBofh> /var/adm/messages [06:57:02] <McBofh> /var/log/syslog is where sendmail dumps its output [06:57:10] <Tilt> oh yes.... sorry, old habbits die hard :) [06:59:51] <spanther> well okay i plugged out my network cord and it says interface e1000g0 is down then it shows a window with border text "Choose WiFi network you wish to activate" i pick mine "Wireless LAN" [07:00:11] <spanther> signal is excellent and encryption is shown as WPA [07:00:23] <spanther> lol Oo now it works? [07:00:46] <jmcp> kRutOn: you have to be in text mode, with build 90 or later [07:00:48] <spanther> oh wait it doesnt the terminal says "iwk0 link up" then down then up the ndown [07:01:07] <spanther> now the "Choose WiFi network you wish to activate" window comes up again [07:02:38] <spanther> terminal says connect_chosen_lan: connect to 'Wireless LAN' failed on 'iwk0': operation timed out below this "Could not connect to chosen WLAN Wireless LAN; going to auto-conf" [07:03:55] <spanther> and if i pick the same again now the "link up and link down" text doesnt come up and my wireless light stays dark [07:05:57] *** perlmongo has quit IRC [07:06:07] <kRutOn> jmcp: roger, thanks [07:10:42] *** kohju is now known as KOHJU [07:11:19] <spanther> nobody here who knows how to fix that? :-) [07:11:32] <McBofh> not I, sorry [07:11:54] *** alanc is now known as alanc_away [07:12:09] *** ninjaslim has quit IRC [07:12:39] <spanther> well since it uses "nwamd" to connect i cant use the Network entry in System -> System Administration [07:14:09] *** alanc-away has quit IRC [07:14:35] *** comay has joined #opensolaris [07:15:30] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o comay [07:15:47] *** asarch has quit IRC [07:36:12] *** ninjaslim has joined #opensolaris [07:38:36] *** Tilt has quit IRC [07:41:12] *** juriskr has joined #opensolaris [07:43:51] *** palowoda has quit IRC [07:44:01] *** palowoda has joined #opensolaris [07:52:21] <spanther> Well okay goodnight everyone i cant stay up any longer :-) 3 days without sleep is hell lol [07:52:44] <McBofh> gnite [07:52:52] <McBofh> sleep generally helps, especially with troubleshooting [07:52:58] <spanther> yeah :) [07:53:14] <spanther> but i watch forward to the next planned OpenSolaris release maybe there it will be fixed heh :) [07:53:34] <spanther> its not that long until the next will be released so i can wait and until then i'll use another OS :) [07:53:43] <spanther> bye McBofh ;) [07:54:04] *** spanther has quit IRC [07:55:04] <codestr0m> McBofh: I did as you suggested yesterday.. installed real SS12.. it's patched and up-to-date and I hit ICE.. (internal compiler errors) should I try to isolate code segments or what's the normal way to proceed? [07:55:48] <McBofh> codestr0m: damn! [07:55:53] <McBofh> that's a real pain in the rear [07:56:01] <McBofh> if you could isolate the code segments that would be a good thing [07:56:26] <jmcp> then the compiler geeks will find it easier to work on the bugs you're gonna log about these errors [07:56:46] <codestr0m> McBofh: I asked too soon. Roman emailed back on this and said to try the SS E and if it's still tosses to report a bug [07:56:47] *** twisti has joined #opensolaris [07:56:52] <jmcp> gah [07:56:57] <jmcp> that would be right :) [07:57:07] <codestr0m> jmcp: ? [07:57:20] <jmcp> "please try SSExpress and see if you can reproduce it" [07:57:30] <jmcp> "but dude, I *did* try SSEx...." [07:57:35] * jmcp reads [07:57:37] <jmcp> ahem [08:00:47] <codestr0m> jmcp: well. I'll maybe just stick to using SSEx and report bugs against that.. the both die at different places and where they die.. if one compiler can't handle it. the other can.. [08:01:09] *** jbasse has joined #opensolaris [08:01:15] <codestr0m> I'm guess one has more optimization work and that's the main difference [08:02:44] *** bhall has left #opensolaris [08:05:31] <jmcp> codestr0m: I guess it's comforting that they die in the same place [08:05:32] <jmcp> kinda [08:05:48] <codestr0m> jmcp: no. they don't die in the same place that's the problem [08:06:05] <codestr0m> exact opposite [08:07:11] *** div8 has joined #opensolaris [08:07:35] <jmcp> oh [08:07:39] <jmcp> well, log bugs [08:09:30] <codestr0m> if you can narrow down which code is triggering it I can maybe fix the c and then we file bugs.. [08:09:53] <jmcp> that would be a good idea [08:10:09] <jmcp> the simpler the reproducible test case, the easier it should be for the compilergeeks to diagnose+fix [08:10:37] <codestr0m> oopse that was in the wrong channel [08:10:39] <codestr0m> sartek: ^ [08:11:10] <codestr0m> mornings are evil [08:11:46] <codestr0m> since learning how to type a little in chinese.. I feel like wanting to tab complete *all* words now :P it just makes more sense [08:12:46] *** LordIllpalazo has joined #opensolaris [08:13:20] *** luc^ has joined #opensolaris [08:19:05] *** carl- has joined #opensolaris [08:19:05] *** _teo_ has joined #opensolaris [08:20:47] *** comay has quit IRC [08:27:01] *** sophokles has joined #opensolaris [08:27:29] *** sophokles has left #opensolaris [08:28:54] *** gehmehgeh has joined #opensolaris [08:31:36] *** tombhadAC has quit IRC [08:31:53] <e^ipi> americans: when's the VP debate? I want to watch it, it'll be hilarious [08:32:57] <codestr0m> e^ipi: I'm sure you can find this information online.. and good morning or evening to you [08:33:26] <e^ipi> yo [08:34:26] <e^ipi> seriously, it'll be awesome. comedy gold [08:36:40] <codestr0m> e^ipi: I'm not sure this is the time of day people will care so much about american politics.. [08:37:05] *** phimic has joined #opensolaris [08:37:09] *** KOHJU is now known as kohju [08:37:25] *** xRaich[o]2x has joined #opensolaris [08:37:45] <e^ipi> i don't care about the politics so much, i'm watching these katie courick clips and laughing my ass off [08:39:11] <jmcp> I guess you've seen the one where Tina Fey uses Sarah Palin's exact words? [08:39:18] <e^ipi> heh, yeah [08:39:54] *** jbasse has quit IRC [08:40:24] <boyd> e^ipi: Saturday Morning our time [08:41:25] <e^ipi> nice [08:43:53] <boyd> e^ipi: Oh, actually, tomorrow: http://news.sbs.com.au/worldnewsaustralia/us_presidential_debates_live_on_sbs__557942 [08:44:13] <e^ipi> <-- not australian [08:44:28] <jmcp> e^ipi: you should mover over here and start enjoying the climate [08:45:07] <e^ipi> thinking about it [08:45:10] <boyd> Oh yeah... ok then: [08:45:23] <boyd> e^ipi: Tomorrow morning our time: http://news.sbs.com.au/worldnewsaustralia/us_presidential_debates_live_on_sbs__557942 [08:45:28] <boyd> :) [08:46:14] <boyd> So, I guess that makes it... about 18 hrs? [08:52:29] *** sophokles1 has joined #opensolaris [08:52:33] *** teknoprep has quit IRC [08:53:25] *** teknoprep has joined #opensolaris [08:53:38] *** ninjaslim has quit IRC [08:55:30] *** tsoome1 has quit IRC [09:02:02] *** sophokles1 has left #opensolaris [09:04:49] *** MeP3aBeu has joined #opensolaris [09:07:29] *** simonleinen has joined #opensolaris [09:08:56] *** DTEIT has joined #opensolaris [09:09:42] <DTEIT> morning [09:14:18] *** mikl has joined #opensolaris [09:16:21] *** airjump has quit IRC [09:19:34] *** mikefut has joined #opensolaris [09:21:03] *** Gekz has quit IRC [09:21:47] *** medar has joined #opensolaris [09:23:43] *** _PRESSY has joined #opensolaris [09:26:00] *** MeP3aBeu has quit IRC [09:29:14] *** juriskr has quit IRC [09:29:32] *** juriskr has joined #opensolaris [09:31:44] *** juriskr has quit IRC [09:33:56] *** juriskr has joined #opensolaris [09:38:05] *** LordIllpalazo has quit IRC [09:41:08] *** icu has joined #opensolaris [09:42:35] *** iceq has joined #opensolaris [09:46:20] *** Erwann has joined #opensolaris [09:48:03] *** prepnotek has joined #opensolaris [09:48:10] *** teknoprep has quit IRC [09:48:21] *** kohju is now known as KOHJU [09:48:32] *** noyb has joined #opensolaris [09:51:05] *** _teo_ has quit IRC [09:51:15] *** LordIllpalazo has joined #opensolaris [09:53:18] <Gman_> quick straw poll - [09:53:33] <Gman_> what's the first things you think about when you think about 'Solaris' [09:53:35] <Gman_> ? [09:54:25] <e^ipi> shitty george cloony movie [09:54:56] <Gman_> ok, don't think i can put that in a presentation, but good contribution :) [09:55:04] <e^ipi> :) [09:55:25] <Gman_> trying to think of all the good things and bad things about solaris [09:55:29] <blahee> e^ipi: exactly. i thought Stanislaw Lem tho, but it's same direction anyway :) [09:56:22] <e^ipi> i dunno, "ludicrously high engineering standards" ? [09:56:23] <CosmicDJ> Gman_: engineered instead of hacked together (hello linux) [09:56:34] <e^ipi> hey, CosmicDJ [09:56:38] * e^ipi high-fives [09:56:52] <Okona> Gman_: Operating system, which existed a long time. Now the world begins to notice [09:58:17] <Gman_> because of opensolaris? or because of solaris? [09:58:22] *** lesterc has quit IRC [09:58:27] <e^ipi> Gman_: standards, stability ( both meanings ) [09:58:55] <e^ipi> well thought out solutions to problems ( lack of dirty hacks (most of the time ) ) [10:00:07] <e^ipi> "it works because it's correct" vs "it's correct because it works" ( latter being the unfortunately common view in other projects ) [10:00:58] <Gman_> ok [10:01:05] <Gman_> what about the bad points about solaris? [10:01:18] <noyb> Gman: here are my first thoughts: Stable, Slow to change, Reliable, Standards-based OS, Open-Source, NFS, ZFS, DTrace, Free, High-Performance. [10:01:28] <trygvis> Gman_: packaging system [10:01:39] <noyb> Hard to install *correctly* for new people [10:01:42] <e^ipi> trygvis: balls to your packaging system. [10:01:49] <CosmicDJ> 64bit (1998) and SMP (1992) [10:02:15] <trygvis> e^ipi: it still *suck*, even if you want to marry it [10:02:50] <CosmicDJ> noyb: hard to minimize; gnome/x11 even on a headless server :( [10:03:25] <e^ipi> Gman_: lack of a real HPC cluster fs ? ( though lustre is coming to solaris sooner or later ) [10:03:28] <e^ipi> ? [10:03:29] <e^ipi> *shrug* [10:03:48] <noyb> Gman_: So configurable that it wraps around from flexible to stifling-complexity. [10:03:50] <e^ipi> Gman_: what's the audience [10:04:01] <Gman_> e^ipi: aye, there's the rub.... [10:04:31] <Gman_> just playing around into the current perceptions of solaris vs opensolaris [10:05:22] *** corpwicle has joined #opensolaris [10:05:53] <corpwicle> maybe someone here can explain, what exactly is the number represented as "swap" in vmstat's output ? a non-manfile answer please [10:05:57] <e^ipi> :P come here trolling ? [10:06:15] <Okona> Gman_: i'd say it started with solaris 10. but indiana helped [10:06:16] <noyb> corpwicle: google. [10:06:28] <corpwicle> ive googled for weeks [10:06:32] <noyb> wow [10:06:34] <phrost> e^ipi: any idea what the end goal is for ips in indiana? do they want to roll it in to mainline solaris eventually or keep two distros forever? [10:06:44] <Gman_> Okona: what started with solaris 10? [10:06:48] <e^ipi> phrost: why don't you ask someone involved with IPS? [10:06:48] <corpwicle> all i find is the same info found in the vmstat manfile [10:06:56] *** mikl has quit IRC [10:06:57] <Gman_> Okona: the change? [10:07:01] <Okona> Gman_: yep [10:07:07] <Gman_> nod, i agree [10:07:20] <Gman_> phrost: it'll be mergd into mainline [10:07:23] <tomww> phrost: don't expect IPS for the olds Solaris 10 line IMHO [10:07:30] <Gman_> at some point in the future [10:07:31] * noyb looks for Mauro and Gregg books... [10:07:37] <tomww> hm? [10:08:00] <Okona> Gman_: negative points would be driver support, and especially on Solaris 10 way too old GUI [10:08:10] *** mikl has joined #opensolaris [10:08:34] <Okona> Gman_: GUI would not matter, where there not Desktop Products like Ray oder secure desktop... [10:08:50] <tomww> in general problematic with solaris is, that programmers/projects outside don't write portable code. it's a problem of the outside code, but hits Solaris. [10:09:04] <corpwicle> so, is "swap" just whats free of physical ram + swap file, and "free" is whats free of just physical ram ? [10:09:09] *** jbasse has joined #opensolaris [10:09:10] <phrost> which was generated by linux being a massive collection of hacks stuck together [10:09:16] <phrost> developers expect linux hacks work eveywhere [10:09:58] <tomww> phrost: isn't linux the only truth? *g* [10:10:34] <e^ipi> if linux is the answer, i'm not sure i want to know the question [10:11:31] <noyb> corpwicle: swap == Available swap space in Kbytes. is that what you needed? [10:12:05] <corpwicle> noyb: if you can answer some followup questions, is swap == RAM + swap file ? [10:14:29] <tomww> so many solaris installs in the datacenters show that solaris isn't wrong. what could go wrong is, that furture releases don't take into account, how datacenters *need* the OS to be (e.g. low maintenance efforts, the right mix from highly stable and still uptodate, upwards compatible, ...) [10:20:35] <noyb> corpwicle: it is whatever the book says it is. And the book says exactly what I stated. Nothing more. I can't contradict McDougall, Gregg, and Mauro on this. [10:21:14] <corpwicle> i really hope there is a better explanation [10:22:24] <noyb> ok. when you read the source code and write a book about performance and fly about the country solving the worst possible performance issues, let me know. I'll buy your book instead. [10:22:36] <corpwicle> ill let you know [10:23:08] <noyb> Or you could just buy "Solaris Performance and Tools: DTrace and MDB Techniques for Solaris 10 and OpenSolaris" [10:23:11] <corpwicle> are you reading from "solaris performance and tools" btw ? [10:23:20] <corpwicle> i have it right here =P [10:23:40] <noyb> why do you not like what it says? [10:24:49] <corpwicle> its more that i was looking for a simple explanation, because swap is really complicated in solaris [10:25:04] <corpwicle> well, probably everywhere but solaris doesnt hide the fact behind a wall of assumptions [10:25:09] *** anilg has joined #opensolaris [10:25:10] *** rareearth has joined #opensolaris [10:25:59] *** dunc_ has joined #opensolaris [10:30:41] <anilg> how do I look at all the functions in a .so ? [10:30:52] *** Dar has joined #opensolaris [10:31:06] <McBofh> anilg: /usr/ccs/bin/nm [10:34:37] *** LordIllpalazoThe has joined #opensolaris [10:35:23] *** tsoome has joined #opensolaris [10:36:17] *** LordIllpalazo has quit IRC [10:36:23] <CosmicDJ> corpwicle: http://www.solarisinternals.com/si/reading/t2-solaris-slides.pdf <- you might be interessted in this [10:38:17] *** tsoome has quit IRC [10:39:53] *** mitrox has quit IRC [10:42:41] *** dorijan has joined #opensolaris [10:47:42] *** teknoprep has joined #opensolaris [10:47:48] *** dunc_ has quit IRC [10:47:56] <corpwicle> CosmicDJ: good read, id rather be at the seminar though =D [10:49:15] *** prepnotek has quit IRC [10:55:34] *** timsf has joined #opensolaris [10:56:31] *** Gekz has joined #OpenSolaris [10:56:44] *** KOHJU is now known as kohju [11:00:33] *** not-me-guv has joined #opensolaris [11:04:42] *** alexeremin has joined #opensolaris [11:05:16] *** dunc_ has joined #opensolaris [11:05:38] *** Dar has quit IRC [11:13:35] *** jbasse has left #opensolaris [11:19:05] *** anilg has quit IRC [11:19:08] *** anilg has joined #opensolaris [11:19:32] *** Odin- has joined #opensolaris [11:19:43] *** mitrox has joined #opensolaris [11:20:52] *** stradi has joined #opensolaris [11:25:03] *** izamryan has joined #OpenSolaris [11:33:03] *** perlmongo has joined #opensolaris [11:35:26] *** alexeremin has quit IRC [11:35:27] *** MattMan has joined #opensolaris [11:35:39] *** alexeremin has joined #opensolaris [11:35:53] *** alhazred has joined #opensolaris [11:36:04] *** alexeremin has left #opensolaris [11:37:06] *** Rarok has joined #opensolaris [11:37:31] *** heB_z0rLDree has joined #opensolaris [11:39:32] *** evocallaghan has joined #opensolaris [11:39:52] <evocallaghan> What! Still no IPS99 [11:40:02] <evocallaghan> ;[ [11:42:01] *** joshux has joined #opensolaris [11:44:13] *** LordIllpalazoThe has quit IRC [11:45:14] *** teknoprep has quit IRC [11:47:02] *** teknoprep has joined #opensolaris [11:47:45] *** mbz has joined #opensolaris [11:49:46] *** Odin- has quit IRC [11:53:11] *** gehmehgeh has quit IRC [11:59:17] *** anilg has quit IRC [12:00:15] *** anilg has joined #opensolaris [12:02:39] *** izamryan has quit IRC [12:11:11] *** LordIllpalazo has joined #opensolaris [12:11:50] *** heB_z0rLDree has quit IRC [12:13:05] *** Ditegen_ has joined #OpenSolaris [12:18:45] *** sartek has quit IRC [12:19:06] <alhazred> evocallaghan: Howdy Edward, how's your 'jump' ;) (it's Alexander) [12:20:52] *** Ditegen has quit IRC [12:20:52] *** Ditegen_ is now known as Ditegen [12:32:30] *** f0cus has joined #opensolaris [12:32:44] <evocallaghan> alhazred:Hello ? [12:33:16] <evocallaghan> alhazred:I'm jumping :p [12:34:02] <alhazred> evocallaghan: Fine! [12:34:17] <evocallaghan> alhazred:Are you well ? [12:34:23] <evocallaghan> Hows things? [12:35:08] <alhazred> evocallaghan: This time I'm trying to jump with new sparc version ;) [12:35:11] *** alibb has joined #opensolaris [12:35:22] <evocallaghan> alhazred:Ah yes.. [12:36:02] <evocallaghan> alhazred:I got your script but my main question was really how I can get from a checked in ON to a bootable ISO [12:36:22] <evocallaghan> I know how to do the packages etc.. [12:36:43] <evocallaghan> The miniroot .. [12:37:44] <alhazred> evocallaghan: are you looking indiana livecd structure? [12:38:44] <alhazred> You need svc live-scripts in miniroot. Compress /usr with lofiadm and then mkisofs. [12:40:01] <evocallaghan> alhazred:So I know you cratate a file, format it and install the packages on that then compress that up [12:40:10] *** Rarok has quit IRC [12:40:24] <evocallaghan> alhazred:But the miniroot part getting built from a ON checkin [12:40:37] <alhazred> yes [12:42:49] <evocallaghan> alhazred:Do you have a script to checkin ON, make it with gcc and build the bootable ISO which you then put the compressed usr.7z on ? [12:42:59] <jmcp> evocallaghan: http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref/onnv/onnv-gate/usr/src/cmd/itutools/ [12:43:30] <evocallaghan> jmcp:Thanks James, Just looking now [12:44:26] <jmcp> no guarantees that it works with IPS or caiman + friends [12:44:29] <jmcp> I know it works with SXCE :) [12:44:59] <alhazred> evocallaghan: well. Also you need listcd and liveusb (if you need usb distro) binaries from caiman project for mounting livecd in boot process [12:45:04] <evocallaghan> jmcp:I think this is what I have been looking for. For like ages. Thanks! [12:45:28] <jmcp> you're welcome [12:45:54] <evocallaghan> alhazred:Not worried about liveusb and such. Just like to do the very very very basics of it all [12:46:14] <evocallaghan> Like a SunOS 5.11 kernel that boots to a shell and that's it [12:46:20] <f0cus> what's the best book for learning shell scripting? [12:46:27] <alhazred> oh, I see. [12:48:03] <evocallaghan> f0cus:There is some rather good ones on amazon.com [12:48:05] *** dunc_ has quit IRC [12:48:13] <evocallaghan> f0cus:Just have a browser about [12:48:32] <f0cus> which one u found most helpful? [12:48:44] <jmcp> evocallaghan: if you haven't already, make sure you read the PSARC materials for these ITU tools - http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/caselog/2008/431/ [12:53:22] <alhazred> jmcp: great tools, it what for a long time all required, thanks! [12:54:10] <evocallaghan> jmcp:Ge, thanks :D [12:54:11] <jmcp> I wish I could say that I wrote them [12:54:17] <jmcp> I just integrated them [12:55:09] <jmcp> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/on/flag-days/pages/2008091601 [12:55:10] <alhazred> jmcp: It too good work ;) [12:55:14] <jmcp> ta [12:55:28] <jmcp> I needed them too, and I didn't see why we should keep it secret [12:55:44] *** Yorlik_extern has joined #opensolaris [12:58:36] <alhazred> jmcp: I long tried to find the answer as the sparc iso now becomes, I hope that soon and for sparc these utilities will be ported [12:58:57] <jmcp> if I had the spare cycles, I'd do it myself [12:59:29] <alhazred> it's would be fine [13:00:14] <jmcp> but y'know, the source is there, it's all shell scripts... anybody could do the work on it [13:00:25] <jmcp> I'd be happy to sponsor a contribution, hint hint [13:01:11] <alhazred> I think it's possible but need to know mkisofs keys for sparc [13:01:18] <jmcp> keys? [13:02:09] <evocallaghan> I wish I did not feel liking falling over into a deep sleep :p [13:02:30] <evocallaghan> This is a perfect time to have you both togther [13:02:46] <evocallaghan> But my mind is blank :( [13:03:08] <alhazred> yes I use keys which I found in snv boot iso: mkisofs -G s0/boot/hsfs.bootblock -B ... -l -ldots -R -N -D -V My_Iso -o ..s0/ [13:03:45] *** jbasse has joined #opensolaris [13:04:19] <oxygene> alhazred: also called "options" or "arguments" :) [13:04:29] <Yorlik_extern> Which solution should I take if i want identity management for a small project using ldap- I'm completely new to this - what i want is to centralize management of UNIX ccounts, webspace and som php based web-applications [13:04:45] <Yorlik_extern> OS is sxce b98 [13:04:47] <alhazred> oxygene: yes ;) [13:05:10] *** chris_unix_dude has joined #opensolaris [13:05:30] *** masta has quit IRC [13:05:40] *** masta has joined #opensolaris [13:06:49] *** nitrile has joined #opensolaris [13:07:09] <oxygene> Yorlik_extern: once upon a time I used openldap. it's quite some manual work, but it's light on resource use [13:08:56] <jmcp> alhazred: ah, args [13:09:00] <jmcp> that should be easy enough :) [13:10:11] <evocallaghan> jmcp:Hey, I been meaning to ask this.. What happened to all the extra work Sun did on the PPC port when they got Solaris to boot on the IBM z9's ? [13:10:12] <alhazred> if you know this secret;) I had to search for these lines in iso [13:10:41] <jmcp> evocallaghan: no idea, sorry [13:11:15] <evocallaghan> jmcp:I would not mind carrying on with that so that I can get it to boot on my PS3. I know the PS3 HyperVisor calls very well [13:11:21] *** rareearth has left #opensolaris [13:12:01] <evocallaghan> jmcp:Would you mind asking around? or do you know someone in particular I should ask ? [13:12:46] <evocallaghan> Don't really want to spend ages duplicating work that has already been done ? [13:13:04] <jmcp> I'm about to head off on my first holiday in nearly 2 years, so it'd be better if you asked on, eg, the "polaris" mailing lists [13:13:31] <oxygene> jmcp: holiday? have fun! :) [13:13:37] <jmcp> I plan to chill out [13:13:44] <jmcp> by the beach.... mmmmmmmmmm [13:13:45] <evocallaghan> jmcp:Ah yes.. No worries. Hope you have a lovely time ! [13:13:48] <jmcp> ta [13:13:49] <jmcp> me too! [13:13:53] <evocallaghan> :D [13:13:56] <trochej> Coffee [13:14:45] <evocallaghan> Yes please! [13:16:30] <evocallaghan> Hmm, someone told me that I am required to sleep sometimes or something.. Don't know, I wasn't really listening [13:17:38] *** kohju is now known as KOHJU [13:18:02] <xRaich[o]2x> evocallaghan: that's just propaganda. don't listen to it ;) [13:19:47] <alhazred> evocallaghan: In army to me spoke: you will sleep in the next world ;) [13:21:07] *** LordIllpalazoThe has joined #opensolaris [13:21:33] *** LordIllpalazo has quit IRC [13:22:15] <evocallaghan> Well I got this funny feeling in my heart [13:22:18] * evocallaghan falls over [13:23:23] <oxygene> lovely.. now that I fixed ndiswrapper to not crash on the .inf file (hint: check everything you pass into strlen [via *printf] for non-null), the resulting driver (for rt61) crashes.. [13:24:20] *** Robbino has left #opensolaris [13:25:19] *** stogel has quit IRC [13:27:24] *** not-me-guv has quit IRC [13:28:24] *** niq has joined #opensolaris [13:28:25] *** vmlemon_ has joined #opensolaris [13:37:02] *** alibb has quit IRC [13:38:33] *** LordIllpalazoThe has quit IRC [13:38:36] *** LordIllpalazo has joined #opensolaris [13:39:46] *** derchris has quit IRC [13:39:49] *** derchris has joined #opensolaris [13:41:08] *** vmlemon_ has quit IRC [13:43:54] *** izamryan has joined #OpenSolaris [13:44:06] *** Odin- has joined #opensolaris [13:49:10] *** sacredlore has joined #opensolaris [13:51:43] *** vmlemon_ has joined #opensolaris [13:53:25] <codestr0m> xRaich[o]2x: Hej.. how have things been with you lately_ [13:53:42] <xRaich[o]2x> codestr0m: pretty bsuy here [13:53:58] <codestr0m> xRaich[o]2x: I ported mplayer over to sun cc.. that was fun :) [13:54:07] <xRaich[o]2x> you got that done? [13:54:11] <codestr0m> yeah [13:54:15] <xRaich[o]2x> niceness [13:54:24] <codestr0m> some small bugs I need to resolve, but it plays movies [13:54:49] <codestr0m> I'm trying to enable some extra bits now and my old dev env crashed.. so umm.. trying to resolve some things [13:54:56] <codestr0m> ldd test | grep not libX11.so.6 => (file not found) [13:55:41] *** coffman_ has quit IRC [13:56:16] *** bofur has quit IRC [13:57:14] <codestr0m> CosmicDJ: ^ [13:59:12] <codestr0m> oopse [13:59:20] <codestr0m> I think I see me doing a fat finger [13:59:31] *** sartek has joined #opensolaris [14:03:59] *** anilg has quit IRC [14:09:33] *** mbz has quit IRC [14:12:28] *** LordIllpalazo has quit IRC [14:12:34] *** LordIllpalazo has joined #opensolaris [14:14:22] *** izamryan has left #OpenSolaris [14:15:23] <teknomega> hey all [14:15:47] *** teknoprep has quit IRC [14:15:50] *** teknomega is now known as teknoprep [14:17:18] <h3sp4wn> codestr0m: Did you get mplayer working with --enable-mlib [14:17:32] *** teknomega has joined #opensolaris [14:17:44] <h3sp4wn> or have you manually fixed all that asm [14:17:55] <codestr0m> h3sp4wn: no more mlib in svn trunk of mplayer [14:18:35] <codestr0m> h3sp4wn: I'm doing pure amd64 and I'm letting the sun cc optimize. and for me it's quite usable [14:19:04] *** LordIllpalazo has quit IRC [14:19:08] *** LordIllpalazo has joined #opensolaris [14:19:20] <codestr0m> another guy who tested my patch on x86 was having some trouble still.. it built, but not sure what worked/borken [14:19:43] <h3sp4wn> are you using sunstudio express or 12 [14:19:44] <codestr0m> right now I'm trying to add things like dvdnav and other codecs.. someone asked for real [14:19:46] <teknoprep> i have an LSImega raid card.. but on install of express it see's no HDD's [14:19:55] <codestr0m> SSE.. the ICE bugs I find I'll report [14:20:13] <teknoprep> do i have to configure each HDD as its own raid-0 inside that card so the drive initialize on boot time ? [14:20:16] <codestr0m> I tested with SS12 as well [14:20:41] <h3sp4wn> I read that SSE has support for gcc/icc style asm but I haven't verified it [14:20:58] *** mbz has joined #opensolaris [14:21:21] <codestr0m> h3sp4wn: well. I'm sure there's asm in there, but by not explicitly enable --mmx and friends I've sorta dodged that bullet [14:21:52] <codestr0m> I added -fast and will maybe get froggy later and enable profiling so I can -xO5 later with the data [14:22:32] <codestr0m> if I had to comment.. I'd say that as it it *right now* without any --enable-OMG it's faster than the gcc version [14:22:59] <h3sp4wn> It seems pretty fast here with gcc-4.3 svn [14:23:17] <codestr0m> 4.3 I haven't tried.. whatever came with indy [14:27:40] <codestr0m> h3sp4wn: want the patch? [14:28:07] *** jimmers has joined #opensolaris [14:28:08] *** alibb has joined #opensolaris [14:28:15] <codestr0m> I'd be curious if any of my changes outside of the configure stuff break gcc [14:28:49] <jimmers> how do I find text files containing some string provided that the strings are stored as unicode? [14:29:15] <codestr0m> jimmers: you mean escaped or? [14:29:37] [14:29:49] <jimmers> no [14:30:21] <jimmers> the string is *stored* as unicode, that is zero after each byte [14:30:52] <jimmers> the best I found is to run strings -a -l against all files and then search on that [14:31:04] <jimmers> but that looks weird [14:32:19] <jimmers> grep seems to look only for ascii [14:34:00] <timsf> are you running in a UTF-8 locale? [14:34:51] <timsf> timf@haiiro[219] cat > foo [14:34:51] <timsf> ???? [14:34:51] <timsf> timf@haiiro[220] grep ? foo [14:34:51] <timsf> ???? [14:34:51] <timsf> timf@haiiro[221] [14:35:13] <timsf> grep works for non-ascii characters too. [14:35:26] <h3sp4wn> codestr0m: Wouldn't mind taking a look [14:35:46] <codestr0m> h3sp4wn: k. for it to go upstream someone other than me needs to fix the configure part [14:35:52] <jimmers> as I said that is unicode which is apparently not the same as UTF-8 [14:36:08] <h3sp4wn> codestr0m: so you just hacked config.mak right [14:36:31] <sartek> h3sp4wn: you know asm ? [14:36:32] <codestr0m> h3sp4wn: heh. no.. they don't use autocrap. .it's a really ugly bash script and I hacked that directly [14:36:38] <timsf> then convert the file from UCS-2 to UTF-8 [14:36:39] *** Gekz has quit IRC [14:36:41] *** teknomega has quit IRC [14:37:08] <timsf> iconv -f UCS-2 -t UTF-8 file > file.utf [14:37:13] *** MIOW has joined #opensolaris [14:37:15] <h3sp4wn> sartek: I know a little bit of arm asm but not x86 [14:37:24] <jimmers> man, I need to find all files containing that string in unicode [14:37:27] <codestr0m> h3sp4wn: http://www.codestrom.com/patches/codestrom-mplayer-suncc.diff.tar.gz [14:37:35] <timsf> (or one of the other big/little endian varieties - ls /usr/lib/iconv for a full list of converters) [14:38:13] <jimmers> so no options? [14:38:18] <timsf> LC_ALL=en_US-UTF-8 iconv -f UCS-2 -t UTF-8 file | env LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 grep 'string' [14:38:24] <timsf> if [ $? -ne 0 ] [14:38:27] <timsf> then [14:38:30] <timsf> echo $file [14:38:34] <timsf> fi [14:39:11] <jafari> what is the best kind of raid i can do with two disk? [14:39:19] <timsf> mirror. [14:39:20] <turtle> a mirror? [14:39:21] <jafari> this is on a netra 1125t [14:39:35] <jafari> mirror ok [14:39:58] <jafari> Raid 10 how disk you need? [14:41:39] <h3sp4wn> codestr0m: needs gnu patch [14:41:45] <h3sp4wn> codestr0m: seems ironic to me [14:41:49] <codestr0m> h3sp4wn: it was made with svn diff [14:41:50] <timsf> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redundant_array_of_independent_disks [14:42:29] <codestr0m> and I *do* use some gnu tools which aren't broken. [14:42:46] <Okona> jafari: for 10 you need at least 4 disks [14:43:12] *** Gekz has joined #OpenSolaris [14:43:49] <jafari> ok [14:44:01] <jafari> raid 1 is is for me [14:44:30] *** jimmers has left #opensolaris [14:45:41] <CosmicDJ> yes, raid1/mirror is the only option for just 2 disks [14:47:55] *** ejray has joined #opensolaris [14:51:55] <jafari> will this doc work the same on a sparc system just by replacing the device path to my correct one: http://www.zazzybob.com/svm_raid1.html [14:53:53] *** jbasse has quit IRC [14:55:23] <Okona> jafari: booting will be different [14:55:50] <Okona> jafari: i'd try zfs boot and mirroring if possible [14:56:02] <jafari> you have a doc on that [14:56:07] <jafari> why should i use zfs? [14:56:16] *** icu has quit IRC [14:56:46] <Okona> e.g. setting up the mirror is just one command [14:57:10] <Okona> you then only have to make the other device also bootable [14:57:25] <CosmicDJ> jafari: zfs_last.pdf [14:57:30] <CosmicDJ> damn [14:57:47] <CosmicDJ> jafari: zfs_last.pdf [14:57:53] <CosmicDJ> hm [14:57:57] <Okona> zfs actively checks the integrity of the data on disk [14:58:00] <jafari> whats that [14:58:06] <CosmicDJ> http://opensolaris.org/os/community/zfs/docs/zfs_last.pdf [14:58:21] <CosmicDJ> a pdf that should answer your "why zfs" question [14:58:26] <Okona> (-: [14:58:31] *** jimmers has joined #opensolaris [14:59:18] *** jimmers has left #opensolaris [15:00:01] <h3sp4wn> codestr0m: http://rafb.net/p/piGZJR67.html It definately has config.mak its generated by that script [15:00:17] <jafari> anyone wants to help me with the zfs boot and mirroring [15:00:58] <codestr0m> h3sp4wn: I don't know why others are hitting that and not me.. libavformat/avio.h line 28 needs to be commented out or ifdef or what.. [15:01:29] <Okona> jafari: installation of sxce should do everything for you. Just use the text mode installer [15:03:38] <jafari> oh i am running solaris sparc 10 release 8/07 [15:03:53] *** jbasse has joined #opensolaris [15:04:09] <Okona> ok, that does not yet support zfs boot. that will come with release 10/08 [15:05:45] *** sacredlore has quit IRC [15:06:41] <jafari> yes it does [15:06:44] *** Therion has joined #opensolaris [15:06:44] <h3sp4wn> codestr0m: perhaps others are on SXCE (I am at least) [15:07:10] <jafari> zfs - configures ZFS file systems [15:07:12] <codestr0m> h3sp4wn: I know my env is by now *very* different than a standard install [15:07:17] <jafari> thats the man page [15:07:34] <Okona> jafari: zfs - yes, zfs boot - not [15:07:42] <jafari> oh [15:08:37] <jafari> whats better about SXCE [15:09:38] <Stric> it's a newer development tree [15:10:59] *** Odin- has quit IRC [15:11:16] <jafari> so basically SXCE is like beta than they ship over to solaris later?\ [15:11:24] <jafari> its liek fedora and redhat? [15:13:02] <Stric> don't know enough details about rh.. it's like debian unstable/testing ;) [15:13:14] <jafari> ok [15:13:34] <CosmicDJ> though some features of sxce will never make it into solaris 10... [15:13:50] <jafari> why not [15:13:54] *** sophokles has joined #opensolaris [15:13:55] <Okona> i'd say sun is more conservative of what it includes in Solaris 10 [15:13:58] <jafari> so will SXCE will ever be stable? [15:13:59] <Stric> but it will end up in s11 [15:14:10] <Stric> sxce is the development tree [15:14:19] <jafari> ah [15:14:20] <Okona> sxce is the road to Solaris 11 [15:15:37] <jafari> so back to the zfs boot and mirroring, since i am running relase 8/07.. i should just do the normal raid 1 [15:16:18] *** sophokles has left #opensolaris [15:16:56] <Stric> not much other options [15:17:10] <jafari> SXCE runs on intel and sparc right? [15:17:52] <Stric> yes [15:19:20] *** jbasse has quit IRC [15:19:49] *** dsturnbull has joined #opensolaris [15:20:31] *** LordIllpalazo has quit IRC [15:21:31] *** chumphries has joined #opensolaris [15:21:54] *** codestr0m has quit IRC [15:22:21] *** Yorlik_extern has quit IRC [15:22:52] *** codestr0m has joined #opensolaris [15:23:54] <jafari> anyone wants to walk me thru the mirror steps i never done this before [15:24:23] <codestr0m> jafari: can you find a howto or is it not in the docs? [15:24:24] <hali> svm mirroring? [15:24:34] <jafari> yeah [15:24:39] *** perlmongo has quit IRC [15:24:41] <hali> http://www.unixway.com/vm/disksuite/mirroros.html [15:24:45] <hali> quick and good tutorial [15:24:53] <jafari> is that for sparc? [15:24:55] <TomJ> http://number9.hellooperator.net/articles/2007/09/27/solaris-10-on-mirrored-disks [15:25:31] <jafari> thanks ghuys [15:25:33] <jafari> guys [15:28:37] *** jbasse has joined #opensolaris [15:29:53] <trochej> ghuls [15:30:41] <jafari> i have a one big / root paritiion [15:32:52] *** TomJ has quit IRC [15:33:25] *** shaftyy has joined #opensolaris [15:35:06] *** alanc-away has joined #opensolaris [15:36:28] *** Vanuatoo has joined #opensolaris [15:37:49] *** dnm has quit IRC [15:39:15] *** chumphries_ has joined #opensolaris [15:39:49] *** storycrafter has joined #opensolaris [15:40:57] *** MIOW-[RU] has joined #opensolaris [15:42:22] *** miow__ has joined #opensolaris [15:42:50] *** storycrafter1 has joined #opensolaris [15:43:32] *** miow__ is now known as MIOW_ [15:44:00] *** MIOW_ has left #opensolaris [15:47:06] *** chumphries has quit IRC [15:48:54] *** vmlemon_ has quit IRC [15:53:02] *** storycrafter1 has quit IRC [15:55:23] *** Yorlik_extern has joined #opensolaris [15:55:26] *** timsf has quit IRC [15:55:33] *** MIOW has quit IRC [15:56:04] *** Yorlik_extern has quit IRC [15:57:13] *** Openfree has quit IRC [16:00:04] *** MIOW-[RU] has quit IRC [16:00:38] *** storycrafter has quit IRC [16:01:14] *** vmlemon_ has joined #opensolaris [16:02:33] *** Openfree has joined #opensolaris [16:10:09] *** luc^ has quit IRC [16:13:53] *** vmlemon_ has quit IRC [16:13:57] *** vmlemon_ has joined #opensolaris [16:15:10] *** stux is now known as stux|work [16:17:16] *** bofur has joined #opensolaris [16:17:41] *** hircus has joined #opensolaris [16:20:00] <jafari> do anyone here use pkg-get with sunfreeware miffor [16:20:05] <jafari> mirror [16:20:34] *** jfisc has joined #opensolaris [16:23:49] *** sartek has quit IRC [16:24:07] *** digifor has joined #opensolaris [16:25:58] <teknoprep> i was thinking about doing this [16:26:03] <teknoprep> what do you guys think.. here it goes [16:26:49] <teknoprep> installing ESXi onto a thmb drive... then setting up a guest OS that runs Solaris... then give direct RAW access to the 12 HDD's to the solaris guest os.. setup ZFS and all the cool toys inside this guest OS... [16:26:56] <teknoprep> this would reduce the need for HCL [16:27:44] <teknoprep> any idea on that ? [16:29:14] *** timsf has joined #opensolaris [16:30:19] <oxygene> teknoprep: so you replace the hardware support of solaris with the hardware support of esxi? [16:30:36] <teknoprep> pretty much [16:31:08] *** corpwicle has quit IRC [16:32:39] <oxygene> I doubt that's an improvement [16:34:36] *** niq has quit IRC [16:35:57] <teknoprep> why not ? [16:36:17] <teknoprep> it gives the guest OS the abililty to move between physical hardware for more redundancy [16:36:39] <teknoprep> also i can load up Guest OS VM's directly onto a SAN storage array that can then be cloned [16:37:03] <teknoprep> the increase in data transfers would be immense since they would traverse a virtual switch inside of ESXi [16:37:11] <teknoprep> why woudl this be a bad thing ? [16:37:23] <oxygene> how's esxi's hardware support? [16:37:33] <teknoprep> its pretty good [16:38:05] <teknoprep> http://www.vmware.com/pdf/vi35_systems_guide.pdf [16:38:22] *** Fish has joined #opensolaris [16:39:01] <teknoprep> the only thing i don't like about this LSI MegaRaid card [16:39:14] <teknoprep> i have to create each drive as a RAID-0 so it becomes initialized [16:39:36] <teknoprep> i wanted to try out the RAID-Z stuff instead of using hardware raid on this box [16:42:33] *** jafari has quit IRC [16:43:26] <dsturnbull> where can i inspect detected hardware? [16:43:37] *** vmlemon_ has quit IRC [16:50:55] *** ejray has quit IRC [16:51:14] *** tsoome has joined #opensolaris [16:52:40] *** odix67 has joined #opensolaris [16:56:18] <odix67> Hi, I've an issue booting os snv98, was also in previous releases, after showing intial screen after boot, system pauses for arround 3 minutes or so, then displaying the hostname:blabla and continue nornal boot, any ideas ? [16:56:40] <teknoprep> you know what i was thinking [16:56:42] *** juriskr has quit IRC [16:57:31] *** div8 has quit IRC [16:57:46] <odix67> maybe a timeout, but ... [16:58:07] <teknoprep> if i did install solaris inside of ESXi and gave raw drive mapping to the solaris guest os... then did this on another storage array box... you could setup ZFSclone between the 2 virtual solaris boxes... this would give the ability to clone each box.... then have more ESXi guest os's point to the solaris ISCSi targets... you could have a 2 system clustered ESXi virtual setup... with cloning which would provide HA failover [16:58:27] <teknoprep> without the need for 2 SAN's that are replicated and without the need then for seperate ESXi boxes [16:58:33] <teknoprep> w0ot [16:58:38] <teknoprep> now thats a good idea [17:01:24] <Okona> teknoprep: you can import a zpool to only one box at a time. [17:01:58] <teknoprep> what do you mean ? [17:02:21] <jamesd> and be chance both had write access to the same pool, the results would not be pretty [17:02:52] <teknoprep> setup 2 pools.. one for each servers... replicate each pool to the other server [17:03:35] *** jbasse has quit IRC [17:04:30] *** Odin- has joined #opensolaris [17:05:07] <Okona> what good should that do, it is still on one machine? You could also achieve this redundancy through normal zfs means [17:05:56] *** KOHJU is now known as kohju [17:07:24] *** ^_Balkan_^ has joined #opensolaris [17:07:53] *** digifor has quit IRC [17:10:11] * JoergB is away: for the weekend [17:10:30] <teknoprep> Okona.. it would allow for 2 ESXi virtual servers.. to run on 2 boxes only.. no need for SAN replication becuuase you are doing this on the ESXi boxes [17:10:55] *** kohju is now known as KOHJU [17:10:57] <teknoprep> instead of needing 2 SAN's that replicate... then 2 ESXi boxes that virtualize.. you can do everything on 2 SAN/ESXi boxes combined [17:11:01] <teknoprep> get it ? [17:11:02] <teknoprep> good [17:11:08] *** KOHJU is now known as kohju [17:11:10] *** jbasse has joined #opensolaris [17:11:32] *** jbasse has quit IRC [17:12:15] <teknoprep> i think this is a spectacular idea [17:12:47] <^_Balkan_^> what is the difrence between solaris 10 11/06 install DVD and new opensolaris install CD? [17:13:38] <^_Balkan_^> i want to try solaris, but i don't know should i use that DVD or download opensolaris install cd [17:14:26] <jamesd> the difference is nigh and day... solaris is enterprise ready and supported, opensolaris is pre-beta of what sun hopes to take over the world [17:15:02] <jamesd> i recomend SXCE unless you are a linux zellot [17:15:13] <jamesd> and want everything to be gnu/gpl [17:15:33] <^_Balkan_^> SXCE is solaris, right? [17:15:55] <jamesd> sxce is the beta of what will be the next Solaris release. [17:16:15] <kohju> really? [17:16:32] <_mary_kate_> SXCE is pretty much identical to every previous solaris release, except it has new code [17:16:43] <_mary_kate_> it used to what what will become solaris 11, but now we have 2008.05 with IPS, that's not entirely clear [17:16:55] <jamesd> yes... sxce is the test bed for code that will be in Solaris .. [17:17:01] <_mary_kate_> (if Solaris 11 is released with IPS, it'll probably be quite different to SXCE) [17:17:21] <kohju> i hear next solaris will be based OpenSolaris OS? [17:18:15] <_mary_kate_> kohju: no one knows what the next solaris will be [17:18:35] <jamesd> if sun's marketing have there way.. but i won't put an opensolaris distro into production for a long time. [17:18:39] <_mary_kate_> obviously it'll be based on the opensolaris code, because that _is_ solaris, but whether it'll be "OpenSolaris 2008.05" is different matter [17:18:46] <kohju> ah ha. [17:19:01] <_mary_kate_> (Sun decided that OpenSolaris should mean two completely different things - the source code to solaris, and an OS distribution based on that code) [17:19:14] <_mary_kate_> (if you think Sun marketing are a load of fucking morons for that decision, you would be right) [17:19:19] *** storycrafter has joined #opensolaris [17:21:35] *** jbasse has joined #opensolaris [17:21:56] <jamesd> these are the same marketing people that took the "Sun Ultra" brand name long assoicated with the ultrasparc processor and put amd and intel chips into "ultra" boxes. [17:22:40] *** mikl has quit IRC [17:22:54] *** LordIllpalazo has joined #opensolaris [17:23:06] <holcomb> that brings up a good point... why weren't they fired long ago? [17:23:21] *** LordIllpalazo has quit IRC [17:24:34] *** mikl has joined #opensolaris [17:24:38] <jamesd> perhaps sun management think that Sun's is more about technology and than marketing so they could basicly put any processor or new technology into a system called "dog crap" and they wouldn't care. [17:24:57] <jbk> are they the same ones that rename everything every few years? [17:24:57] <teknoprep> is the ZFS gui administrator inluced in the full install of OpenSolaris Community [17:25:25] * jamesd is not a sun employee or under contract of Sun. And does not represent Sun. [17:29:06] <teknoprep> heh.. the full install of opensolaris takes a long time to install [17:29:49] *** heqichen has joined #opensolaris [17:30:03] <heqichen> hi [17:30:49] *** sanzilla has joined #opensolaris [17:31:26] *** ejray has joined #opensolaris [17:33:13] *** odix67 has quit IRC [17:34:25] *** heqichen has left #opensolaris [17:34:30] <^_Balkan_^> how much is solaris user-friendly? [17:34:46] *** yippi has joined #opensolaris [17:34:53] <jbk> very, it's just picky about who they are :) [17:35:03] <^_Balkan_^> lol [17:35:33] <jamesd> once you understand it, its damm friendly... but gettting to that point requires months if not years of courting it. [17:35:51] <jbk> it's really about the same as most other unix variants or clones, but there are differences.. as long as you know what those are, it's not bad [17:36:28] <^_Balkan_^> how easy is to install codecs for divx? [17:37:01] <jbk> i'm not sure if any exists -- mostly due to licensing / ip/ drm issues [17:37:25] <teknoprep> if you are comming from a Linux / BSD background it should be pretty easy to migrate into Solaris [17:37:59] <jamesd> if you want to play videos... linux or windows are better platforms, if you want to serve files and network services... then solaris is your platform. [17:38:05] <^_Balkan_^> i use mac, but i know to use linux too [17:38:16] <trochej> jamesd: ntrue, I came from Linux to Solaris within two weeks. [17:38:30] <teknoprep> trochej, thats great to know.. this is my first solaris install [17:38:37] <teknoprep> trochej, been using bsd / linux for years [17:38:38] <^_Balkan_^> i have one old PC, so i want to put solaris on it [17:39:56] <Okona> balkan, for codecs look at http://lifewithsolaris.jp/ [17:40:25] <kohju> ah.... if you use some linux with only convenience packaging system, you feel solaris is difficult. [17:40:54] <trochej> kohju: He stated he used bsd. [17:41:24] <kohju> oh. [17:41:34] <kohju> that's a no problem :) [17:41:54] <trochej> kohju: And he could be using Slackware/LFS, which has no convenience packaging systems. [17:41:58] <trochej> :) [17:42:20] <^_Balkan_^> are programs on solaris installed like on linux (with some package manager) or can they be installed with few clicks? [17:43:34] *** phimic has left #opensolaris [17:43:55] <kohju> "yum install foo"... Oops ! Error ! "yum install -f foo" Oops! "yum uninstall foo" Oops! error "yum install -f foo;yum install -f foo;yum install -f foo".....maybe that users can not use Solaris.. [17:44:05] *** stevel has joined #opensolaris [17:44:05] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o stevel [17:48:19] *** carl- has quit IRC [17:48:48] <kohju> but, perhaps, it is convenience system, recently. [17:51:10] <teknoprep> is there a ports style system for solaris ? [17:51:16] <teknoprep> i like bsd ports [17:51:36] <trochej> teknoprep: IIRC you can use ports with solaris [17:51:45] <teknoprep> that would be great [17:51:49] *** rmesta has joined #opensolaris [17:52:30] <kohju> i have used FreeBSD/netBSD. [17:52:47] <kohju> for n years.... :) [17:53:19] <teknoprep> i use OpenBSD alot for firewall's [17:53:29] <teknoprep> usually in a Virtual Environment [17:53:50] <teknoprep> also for routing between VLAN's inside a VMware environment [17:53:51] <trochej> I use fireall for firewalls. :) [17:53:54] <kohju> but.... i still don't know how to easy update.... :D [17:54:05] <teknoprep> trochej, what is fireall ? [17:54:20] <gausus> teknoprep: in a virtual environment? [17:54:32] <teknoprep> yeah setup OpenBSD inside of VMware ESXi [17:54:32] <gausus> teknoprep: are there any problems with that aproach ? [17:54:36] <teknoprep> nope [17:54:44] <trochej> teknoprep: Juniper, ie. Which is basically freebsd. :) [17:54:55] <teknoprep> Juniper can s.a.d. [17:55:03] <trochej> can [17:55:14] <gausus> trochej: juniper is freebsd + stuff that works ;) [17:55:14] <trochej> True, sometimes it does not [17:55:21] <trochej> I know [17:55:30] <teknoprep> i hate juniper... [17:55:36] <teknoprep> its overpriced crap [17:55:41] <teknoprep> well there smaller stuff is [17:55:47] <gausus> teknoprep: i will be running openbgpd router and firewall on openbsd (+openbgpd/ospf) [17:55:47] <teknoprep> there high end core routers are nice [17:55:52] <teknoprep> but i don't like the CLI [17:56:02] <teknoprep> i prefer CAT/OS and IOS from cisco [17:56:04] <gausus> teknoprep: and i am wondering should i run it inside VM or on baremetal [17:56:06] *** mbz has quit IRC [17:56:15] <teknoprep> gausus is there a difference ? [17:56:25] <teknoprep> oh i understand what you are asking [17:56:38] <gausus> teknoprep: stability of the solution is a key feature [17:56:40] <teknoprep> if you have ESXi or XEN setup... they allow for VLAN's [17:56:45] *** anilg has joined #opensolaris [17:56:56] <teknoprep> i prefer ESXi becuase of there very nice networking features [17:57:04] <teknoprep> but still if you do not have a VLAN routable switch [17:57:16] <teknoprep> i would use BSD of some sort to route between vlan's on the virtual layer [17:57:25] <teknoprep> so put BSD inside of a VM and use it as a router [17:57:55] <gausus> i basicly use openbsd + 802.1q capable switch [17:57:57] <teknoprep> if your switches are VLAN routable like a cisci 3650 ... you should be able to route at a much faster rate with the switch doing your routing [17:58:02] <teknoprep> ok [17:58:03] <teknoprep> BUT [17:58:18] <teknoprep> 802.1q capable switch doesn't mean you can route between the vlan's on the switch [17:58:37] <teknoprep> if it doesn't have ACL's and VLAN routing.. the switch is just good for 802.1q and thats it [17:58:41] *** mbz has joined #opensolaris [17:59:03] <teknoprep> so now to pass info between those VLAN's you need routing... i prefer if you already would have a Virtual Server... setup a BSD environment and route in the VM [17:59:17] <gausus> trochej: kawa? [17:59:37] <teknoprep> you can setup a TRUNK port inside of VMware and then setup a port group that is open to all VLAN's ... this would be the Trunk port to your BSD VM [17:59:59] <trochej> gausus: Coffe, yes [18:00:01] <teknoprep> then from that you can assign a VLAN interface attached to the virtual interface connected to the TRUNK port group on the VM server [18:00:07] *** ^_Balkan_^ has left #opensolaris [18:00:09] *** crichardso has joined #opensolaris [18:00:10] <teknoprep> this will allow routing of all VLAN's you assign on the BSD box [18:00:12] <teknoprep> understand ? [18:00:22] *** simonleinen has quit IRC [18:00:35] <teknoprep> then you can setup an INET VLAN so you can NAT to the LAN VLAN for your client computers on the LAN [18:00:45] <teknoprep> basically a router on a stick that is inside a VM [18:00:49] <teknoprep> with NAT functionality [18:01:02] <teknoprep> and yes its very stable [18:01:31] <teknoprep> for content filtering through a transparent proxy i usually use Untanlged then inside a VM connected over a Bridge [18:02:19] *** sartek has joined #opensolaris [18:03:27] *** rrrand has quit IRC [18:04:16] <gausus> teknoprep: yeap, i get it :) [18:04:55] <crichardso> untangled looks pretty nice [18:05:55] <jamesd> anyone have a working config for a 2950 that uses etherchannel (sun trunking) in a vlan config? [18:10:01] *** niq has joined #opensolaris [18:10:11] *** f0cus has quit IRC [18:11:33] *** ejray has quit IRC [18:12:42] *** comay has joined #opensolaris [18:12:55] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o comay [18:13:32] *** bondolo has joined #opensolaris [18:23:10] *** webar7 has quit IRC [18:25:59] *** dunc has joined #opensolaris [18:27:34] *** rmesta has left #opensolaris [18:31:10] <trochej> Coffee [18:31:21] <sanzilla> Tea [18:31:25] *** jbasse has quit IRC [18:31:25] <kohju> please. [18:32:07] * sanzilla trochej and sanzilla are now friends ! [18:33:08] *** sah-work has quit IRC [18:33:55] *** sailorvrz__ has joined #opensolaris [18:35:26] *** sah-work has joined #opensolaris [18:36:12] <kohju> i need to make coffee. [18:37:50] *** mikefut has quit IRC [18:39:29] <Doc> make me some too [18:39:40] <sanzilla> kohju: go to the #coffee [18:40:46] <kohju> /join #coffee [18:41:06] <kohju> i love coffe, too. [18:42:12] <sanzilla> there is a channel now named #coffee [18:43:20] *** aruiz has joined #opensolaris [18:43:39] *** joshux has left #opensolaris [18:44:29] <niq> mmm, mine's an espresso [18:44:39] <sanzilla> deja uv [18:47:25] *** dunc has quit IRC [18:48:28] *** Fish has quit IRC [18:48:55] *** Fish has joined #opensolaris [18:51:15] <aruiz> is there any way to check if I'm on a 64bits or a 32bits setup? [18:51:25] <jamesd> isainfo -v [18:51:28] <aruiz> thanks [18:52:09] <sanzilla> there is another way , just use a like this [18:52:17] <sanzilla> file /bin/ls [18:52:42] <sanzilla> then it will say wether this is a 32 executable or not [18:53:06] <trochej> sanzilla: madwizard@madtower:~$ isainfo -b [18:53:06] <trochej> 64 [18:53:06] <trochej> madwizard@madtower:~$ file /bin/ls [18:53:06] <trochej> /bin/ls: ELF 32-bit LSB executable 80386 Version 1 [FPU], dynamically linked, not stripped, no debugging information available [18:53:10] <trochej> :) [18:53:19] <kohju> if you want to know the process run under 64bit or 32bit. you should do other way. [18:53:59] <sanzilla> :( i i sorry [18:54:25] <sanzilla> I will be silient [18:54:36] <trochej> Don't be [18:54:45] <trochej> I just shared a knowledge :) [18:54:52] <sanzilla> :) [18:55:08] *** syamajala2 has joined #opensolaris [18:56:45] *** Fish has quit IRC [18:56:58] *** Fish has joined #opensolaris [19:05:51] *** sanzilla is now known as china [19:06:19] *** china is now known as win32 [19:07:05] *** win32 is now known as sanzilla [19:07:30] *** sdtradvarious has joined #opensolaris [19:08:03] *** dunc has joined #opensolaris [19:09:29] *** dunc has quit IRC [19:09:52] *** stradi has quit IRC [19:11:28] *** niq has quit IRC [19:11:38] *** dunc has joined #opensolaris [19:13:18] *** bondolo has quit IRC [19:14:52] *** ejray has joined #opensolaris [19:18:01] *** sdtradvarious has quit IRC [19:19:35] *** logic has joined #opensolaris [19:19:47] *** logic is now known as logic855 [19:21:53] *** alibb has quit IRC [19:23:50] *** ejray_ has joined #opensolaris [19:27:00] <infinity1> leave [19:27:02] *** infinity1 has left #opensolaris [19:27:08] *** stradi has joined #opensolaris [19:27:41] *** jamesd has quit IRC [19:30:52] *** ejray has quit IRC [19:32:21] *** gobbler has joined #opensolaris [19:32:44] <gobbler> what problems could occur with 1TB+ UFS partition? [19:33:26] <ballChalk> long fsck times [19:33:31] <ballChalk> oh wait, solaris journals [19:33:58] <gobbler> on sol10? [19:34:08] <ballChalk> yes [19:34:25] <gobbler> is it recommended to run such big partitions? [19:34:45] <gobbler> its for a 500k$ HA stock market system [19:37:26] <smtms> 500k$ HA stock market systems are developed/deployed by people who can just phone up a Sun engineer [19:38:11] *** sanzilla has left #opensolaris [19:39:18] *** dunc has quit IRC [19:40:14] <gobbler> yes, but the tie-guys with the cool ideas never do that and let us devs get hanged if it magically doesnt work out [19:41:44] *** timsf has quit IRC [19:50:41] *** MeP3aBeu has joined #opensolaris [19:52:54] *** DTEIT has quit IRC [19:53:10] <Doc> hmm.. #solaris has no sense of humor [19:53:25] <e^ipi> naw, that place is a cesspool [19:53:44] *** AxeZ has joined #opensolaris [19:55:55] *** corpsicle has joined #opensolaris [19:56:40] <corpsicle> good evening everyone [19:59:43] *** iceq has quit IRC [20:01:30] *** yippi has quit IRC [20:06:10] *** dunc has joined #opensolaris [20:18:43] *** jamesd has joined #opensolaris [20:18:43] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o jamesd [20:20:21] *** pjfloyd has joined #opensolaris [20:24:22] *** pramz has quit IRC [20:26:37] *** fr4g has joined #opensolaris [20:29:05] <tomww> gobbler: you could let the database run on raw disks... and let the database care about consitency [20:29:17] *** _spike has joined #opensolaris [20:29:23] <gobbler> we dont have a db [20:29:32] <gobbler> flat files and shared memory [20:29:55] <gobbler> i see issues everywhere! but its beer o'clok [20:30:02] <gobbler> thanks & bye [20:30:15] *** gobbler has quit IRC [20:31:28] <teknoprep> why does backspace not work in solaris ? [20:31:45] <teknoprep> it puts up characters instead of deleting the last thing i typed in [20:32:09] <trochej> teknoprep: Use Ctrl+h and Ctrl+w for whole words [20:32:10] <h3sp4wn> teknoprep: using /sbin/sh ? [20:32:12] <teknoprep> is backspace not maped to it [20:32:26] *** teknoprep has left #opensolaris [20:32:34] *** teknoprep has joined #opensolaris [20:32:36] <teknoprep> heh [20:33:23] <e^ipi> teknoprep: use /usr/bin/ksh93 [20:33:26] <e^ipi> things'll work then [20:33:30] <teknoprep> ok [20:33:48] <teknoprep> X doesn't start on this box by default configurations [20:33:48] <h3sp4wn> or even /usr/xpg4/bin/sh if all you care about is backspace [20:33:48] *** hircus has quit IRC [20:34:13] <teknoprep> is ksh korn shell ? [20:34:26] <e^ipi> yeah [20:34:31] <teknoprep> yeah i'll stick with that [20:34:33] <e^ipi> 93 is the 1993 standard [20:35:11] <teknoprep> what is the minimalist package set i can install and still include smcwebserver ? [20:35:19] <benley> I love how the default is still something older than 1993 [20:35:19] <teknoprep> from default install [20:35:51] <teknoprep> does ksh93 have tab completion ? [20:35:59] <e^ipi> yes [20:36:04] <teknoprep> ok thanx [20:36:05] <trochej> Yup [20:36:09] <teknoprep> bbiab have to reinstall opensolaris [20:36:17] <trochej> And a nice one, with numbering and all :) [20:36:39] <teknoprep> real quick question before i reinstall tho... whats the minimal install for smcwebserver package to be included by default ? [20:36:46] <e^ipi> why would you want it? [20:36:51] <teknoprep> zfs gui [20:36:52] <e^ipi> smc is the devil [20:37:12] <e^ipi> new question: Does anyone wear baseball caps? [20:37:32] <benley> they're called "trucker hats" these days. hth. [20:37:38] <e^ipi> whatever [20:37:53] <benley> come on, one must be properly "ironic" [20:37:53] <e^ipi> ( besides, trucker caps are the one with nylon mesh backing ) [20:38:33] <benley> hats seem to be made for people with small heads. [20:39:48] <e^ipi> so nobody then [20:40:14] <e^ipi> i'll ask twitter [20:40:52] <benley> twitter knows everything [20:41:06] <jbk> yeah [20:41:12] <jbk> trying to find hats that fit me can be annoying [20:42:21] *** finger has quit IRC [20:43:02] *** shaftyyy has joined #opensolaris [20:43:33] <teknoprep> e^ipi, why is it the devil ? [20:43:42] <teknoprep> e^ipi, why does it suck ? [20:43:51] <jbk> have you tried it? [20:43:53] <teknoprep> nope [20:44:05] <jbk> or die of boredom while you wait for it to load? :) [20:44:07] <teknoprep> i was under the impression that the zfs gui was actually pretty nice [20:44:14] <jbk> that's webmin [20:44:15] <jbk> not smc [20:44:38] <teknoprep> eh [20:44:39] <e^ipi> why do you need a zfs gui, anyways? it's so damned easy [20:44:50] <teknoprep> its nice to visually see your layout [20:45:04] <Doc> the web's easy too, but you use a GUI for that! [20:45:34] <e^ipi> Doc: the web is by definition visually conveyed data [20:48:39] *** pjfloyd has left #opensolaris [20:48:55] <Doc> shush.. since when does logic have a place on this channel? [20:49:28] <oxygene> Doc: times are changing.. solaris becomes linux, and this channel becomes logical [20:51:33] *** Zero_Dogg has joined #opensolaris [20:54:51] <Doc> hmm.. so can i try the troll that got me banned on #solaris here? [20:55:02] *** Zero_Dogg has left #opensolaris [20:55:08] <Doc> wait.. maybe i shouldn't have said it was a troll firts... dammit [20:55:15] <e^ipi> Doc: probably *shrug* [20:55:59] *** shaftyyy has quit IRC [20:57:08] *** shaftyy has quit IRC [21:02:13] *** Erwann has quit IRC [21:05:39] *** anilg has quit IRC [21:09:51] *** aruiz has quit IRC [21:10:13] *** Fish has quit IRC [21:10:47] *** sickness_ has joined #opensolaris [21:13:21] *** sickness has quit IRC [21:15:07] *** jgracin has joined #opensolaris [21:16:58] *** spiki has joined #opensolaris [21:17:25] *** sickness_ is now known as sickness [21:18:44] *** Luria has joined #opensolaris [21:20:11] *** sailorvrz_ has joined #opensolaris [21:20:11] *** sailorvrz__ has quit IRC [21:28:05] <teknoprep> e^ipi you work for sun ? [21:29:03] *** IvanR_ has joined #opensolaris [21:29:59] <e^ipi> teknoprep: yes [21:30:11] *** Fullmoon has joined #opensolaris [21:30:13] <teknoprep> e^ipi, why so many secrets at sun ? [21:30:26] <e^ipi> disclaimer: my opinions are mine and mine alone, and do not reflect the positions of my employer [21:30:38] <teknoprep> ah lol [21:30:56] <teknoprep> you have to CYA tha much eh ? [21:31:02] <e^ipi> because they're an IT corp ? time to market is incredibly important [21:31:16] <e^ipi> so a lot of trade secrets is kinna just how the game goes [21:31:21] <e^ipi> CYA ? [21:31:33] <e^ipi> oh, nevermind [21:31:54] <Luria> hey, so do you have a script to echo that disclaimer, or is it muscle memory? [21:32:31] <e^ipi> :P [21:32:50] <ballChalk> its in a static sun-supplied paste buffer [21:32:54] *** rich78 has joined #opensolaris [21:33:33] <Luria> must be one of those extra buttons on a sparc keyboard [21:33:52] <e^ipi> s/sparc/sun [21:33:58] <rich78> Is there a version of opensolaris that doesn't have xwindows (gui)? Just shell for server use? [21:34:02] <e^ipi> my ultra40 came with a sun keyboard [21:34:12] <e^ipi> rich78: you can remove it post-facto [21:34:39] <rich78> ok is that what most would do for a server setup? Does it work well for a server? (used to Ubuntu server) [21:34:40] <e^ipi> and if you're careful and know what you're doing, you can build up SXCE that way [21:34:57] <e^ipi> nah, most people leave it because disk space is about 2 cents per gigabyte [21:35:08] <rich78> SXCE? [21:35:31] <e^ipi> solaris express comunity ed. [21:35:39] <Luria> and you never know when youll need what [21:35:40] <palowoda> I'm waiting for free 1T drives. :) [21:35:49] <Luria> closer to 1 cent these days [21:36:15] *** dunc has quit IRC [21:36:23] <e^ipi> rich78: also, keeping it around is useful ... things like oracle's installer require it even if you don't have a GUI on it [21:36:41] <rich78> ok thanks [21:36:57] <e^ipi> you can disable X to save memory if you like [21:37:23] <rich78> I'm really liking what I see with Solaris, but I guess I'm just a bit surprised to see it with X and no shell only option [21:37:42] <rich78> Am I right in thinking Solaris 10 is the same? GUI? [21:37:46] <Luria> oh crap, havent read xkcd in two weeks, brb [21:37:57] <holcomb> what universe are we in again? [21:38:36] <e^ipi> rich78: why surprised? disk is really, really cheap and some stuff requires it even if you don't think it would [21:39:00] <rich78> It's not about space, more memory over head of a running GUI, when it's purely for server operation [21:39:09] <palowoda> Memory is cheap too. [21:39:33] *** dunc has joined #opensolaris [21:39:46] <rich78> Yeah but not to waste surely? It kind of makes optimizations pointless with a just add to it attitude [21:40:03] <rich78> I'm predominantly a developer so like to have things as light as possible [21:40:09] <palowoda> cheap attitude I guess [21:40:31] <palowoda> blame the hardware industry [21:40:58] <palowoda> It's good. [21:41:07] <rich78> I know what you mean, but I really liked Red Hat or Ubuntu Server with how they don't have a GUI. [21:41:36] *** codestr0m has quit IRC [21:41:39] <e^ipi> the point is pretty moot anyways, once indiana stabilizes a bit i'd be surprised if someone didn't roll a no-gui option [21:41:47] <rich78> Either way it's there so there's no point worrying about it. At least it can be removed. :) [21:42:00] <rich78> Thanks again :) [21:42:14] *** bobbyz has quit IRC [21:42:41] *** rich78 has quit IRC [21:47:31] *** bengtf has joined #opensolaris [21:47:34] *** rich78 has joined #opensolaris [21:47:56] *** alibb has joined #opensolaris [21:48:00] <rich78> Sorry I have another quick question, what is the reason for no partition options when installing OpenSolaris? [21:48:28] <palowoda> zfs likes the whole disk? [21:49:00] <e^ipi> nah, that's not it [21:49:12] <e^ipi> you can't install on an EFI disklabelled disk [21:49:22] <palowoda> OpenSolaris is like world domination? [21:49:33] <e^ipi> mostly it's because the installer doesn't have that feature yet [21:49:53] <rich78> Does anyone have experience of Solaris 10? Does that offer partitioning? [21:50:02] <e^ipi> yes [21:50:04] <e^ipi> so does SXCE [21:50:10] <rich78> During installation? [21:50:15] <palowoda> SXCE is a better option. [21:50:17] <e^ipi> yes [21:50:25] <e^ipi> SXCE is still using the old installer [21:50:30] <rich78> Sorry what's the difference between SXCE and OpenSolaris? Sorry for the dumb questions [21:50:40] <palowoda> IPS [21:50:40] <e^ipi> it's not a dumb question [21:51:12] <e^ipi> there was some unpleasantness surrounding that ,but anyways ... OpenSolaris 2008.05 ( aka 'indiana' ) is the new distro [21:51:20] *** TomJ has joined #opensolaris [21:51:21] <e^ipi> it's got IPS and stuff, more linux-y [21:51:36] <e^ipi> SXCE is a lot closer to Solaris 10 [21:51:37] <palowoda> Live CD too. [21:52:12] <rich78> Sorry which one has got IPS? and what is IPS? [21:52:31] <e^ipi> package manager [21:52:38] <e^ipi> indiana has it [21:52:41] <e^ipi> it's like apt-get [21:52:48] <rich78> OK yes thanks [21:53:18] <Luria> only pronounced "sexy." srsly, did anyone consider that? [21:53:44] <holcomb> haha [21:53:50] <palowoda> OpenSolaris Sexy sounds like a good marketing platform. [21:54:35] <rich78> I'm looking for something closer to Unix of old, so I guess SXCE is more for me? I will also be looking to use a remote host which offers Solaris 10 for my web projects in the future. [21:54:46] <Luria> openSexy: the platform you want to be on. [21:54:59] <rich78> LOL Is SXCE going soon when Indiana is out? [21:55:40] <palowoda> openSexy sounds so much better. They don't have sex in Indiana. [21:56:33] <palowoda> They do have corn though. [21:57:11] <jbk> and soybeans [21:57:16] <Gman_> rich78: sxce will go away at some stage in the future - probably at least a year away [21:57:28] <palowoda> Maybe two years. [21:57:29] *** jbasse has joined #opensolaris [21:58:00] <Gman_> when IPS/caiman go back into nevada, it will die [21:58:06] <palowoda> Gman_: Note on IRC it's a joke to talk about timelines. [21:58:09] <Gman_> nevada will die, and something new will come out of it [21:58:35] <palowoda> Oh :) [21:58:41] <rich78> ok so now I'm confused, if sxce goes why is Indiana less like Solaris10? Is it just the package manager? [21:58:54] <palowoda> No commentment. [21:58:57] <rich78> Surely Indiana is closer due to Sun being more involved? [21:59:03] <Gman_> right [21:59:05] <palowoda> opps commitment [21:59:17] <Gman_> indiana will be the base for what will eventually be the next long term supported release from sun [21:59:34] <palowoda> What is the measure of "long term"? [21:59:46] *** DannyJ has quit IRC [22:00:04] <Gman_> 10 years? [22:00:09] <Stric> Solaris is usually supported about 10 years [22:00:11] <rich78> So Indiana would be a better move then? Is that the build that's currently available on the site? OpenSolaris 2008.05 Live CD? [22:00:26] <palowoda> Do I hear 20 years? [22:00:34] <Gman_> if you're looking for the stuff that most of sun is working on, then indiana is it [22:00:38] <Gman_> s/indiana/OpenSolaris/ [22:00:44] <Gman_> 2008.05 is the latest release [22:00:48] <Stric> rich78: What are you looking for? A development tree, or something "stable"? [22:00:50] <Gman_> 2008.11 due out in november [22:01:13] <palowoda> Gman_: SXCE is due out also. [22:01:24] <rich78> I'm looking for something that could be classed as a stable Solaris with no mucking about. That's part of the Linux that I don't like. [22:01:35] <palowoda> Define stable? [22:01:37] <Stric> rich78: Solaris 10 is Stable. [22:01:50] <Gman_> then solaris 10 maybe what you want [22:02:03] <rich78> Pricey too. I will use that as a host but not for home / dev to support a Solaris 10 host [22:02:12] <Yorlik> Does Suns identity management stuff run on sxce 98 ? And how resource hogging is it ? [22:02:15] <Stric> pricey? it's free.. [22:02:18] <rich78> I define stable as something that isn't messed with too often [22:02:34] <palowoda> free means it has support fee's attached. [22:02:37] <rich78> Solaris 10 is free? I thought it was proprietary as in licensed and paid for? [22:02:48] <palowoda> Not it's free. [22:02:49] <jbk> rich78: only if you want a support contract [22:02:53] <Stric> rich78: Unless you want paid support, you don't have to pay. [22:03:03] <rich78> OK screw the support I'm going for Solaris 10!!!! :D [22:03:13] <rich78> Thanks feel quite dumb now [22:03:14] <Gman_> good that you pointed out that perception still holds for many people though [22:03:25] <Stric> Without paid support, you can get security fixes for free anyway [22:03:30] *** jbasse has quit IRC [22:03:35] <jbk> though you will miss out on new features [22:03:39] <rich78> Sound too good to be true [22:03:50] <palowoda> And the new features is where it's at these days. [22:03:54] <rich78> Yeah but what new features would I really need? It's a server? [22:04:08] <rich78> If I can install Rails and keep it patched that's all I need [22:04:09] <palowoda> zfs, crossbow [22:04:19] <jbk> built in cifs server, newer zfs features, virtual consoles (very soon), crossbow [22:04:35] <rich78> That would come with later builds surely? More new features usually leads to less stability [22:04:37] <palowoda> virtual consoles coming in 100? [22:04:43] <Stric> vc's can kiss my rear.. [22:05:01] <palowoda> Stric: Why? [22:05:06] <rich78> I thought virtual consoles were part of zones in Solaris? Or have I got something confused? I'm still new to Solaris world [22:05:08] <TomJ> yeah VCs are fluff mostly [22:05:09] * Stric hugs screen [22:05:10] <rich78> And it shows!!!!! [22:05:21] <holcomb> screen ftw, but vcs can be handy in a pinch [22:05:35] <phrost> any idea what setting you need to change to get page up / down working in man? [22:05:47] <jbk> virtual consoles as in alt-f2, etc. [22:05:49] <Luria> screen, ftw and all, but it can be a bit slow, no? [22:05:51] <jbk> that you get in linux [22:06:06] <rich78> like tabs? [22:06:13] <holcomb> export PAGER=less and possibly hork with your teminal [22:06:15] <Stric> Luria: only gets slow for me when I have a bunch of screen sessions attached to the same one, with different window sizes.. [22:06:22] <jbk> each zone has it's own 'console' but you get to them via zlogin -C from any session in the global zone [22:06:26] <Stric> jbk: I hope they get the scrollback right [22:06:36] *** codestr0m has joined #opensolaris [22:06:41] <Stric> ie, not like in linux where you lose scrollback at switch [22:07:02] <e^ipi> screen's pretty quick [22:07:05] <e^ipi> *shrug* [22:07:10] <Luria> what does man use cat/more and not less like every modern linux? [22:07:16] <e^ipi> it's also putting back the same build as virtual consoles [22:07:21] <Stric> Luria: $PAGER [22:07:42] <Luria> i know how to fix it, why is it a dumb default? [22:07:58] <TomJ> Solaris very rarely changes the default, so it remains compatible for decades [22:07:58] <Yorlik> I prefer screen over VCs - in case when ssh breaks or i need to go home and do something from there - compiles nd installs can run while I'm on the way ... [22:08:01] <TomJ> This can sometimes be annoying [22:08:04] <TomJ> but the sentiment is the right one [22:08:10] <phrost> page up / down don't work in less eitehr, hrm [22:08:13] <phrost> term is set as xterm [22:08:16] <rich78> So should I class OpenSolaris Indiana, to be a branch of Solaris that would be more experimental? [22:08:18] <phrost> regular ssh connection [22:08:19] <palowoda> So the question is screen or vc going to be the future with Solaris/Opensolaris? [22:08:23] <TomJ> Much better htan other system which are happy to break compatibility in a minor version release [22:08:40] <e^ipi> rich78: yes, that's not unfair classification [22:08:42] <TomJ> palowoda: what do you mean 'the future'? Screen is in OpenSoalris, so will be VC. Use what you want. [22:08:52] <Luria> TomJ, hmmm, fair enough. [22:08:59] <palowoda> TomJ: Is screen in SFE? [22:09:05] <rich78> OK, at least it's less broken up than Linux in terms of branching then. [22:09:07] <TomJ> Me, I'll never use VC, the times I am sitting (or accessing) the consoles of my boxes is once in a blue moon [22:09:09] <e^ipi> no, screen is in the WOS [22:09:10] <Luria> but if so, where is cde? [22:09:22] <Yorlik> palowoda: Yes it is [22:09:23] <Gman_> sfw [22:09:43] <palowoda> sfw isn't the future for Solaris/OpenSolaris. [22:09:51] <e^ipi> when build100 comes out, no matter how you get it, it's there. [22:09:54] <Luria> nsfw? [22:09:58] <Gman_> well, it's an official consolidation [22:10:01] <Gman_> so it sort of is [22:10:03] <TomJ> Luria: CDE is still in Solaris 10. It can't come in OpenSolaris because it's closed source. I guess it's just been removed from SXCE beacuse it's been deprecated for a long time [22:10:17] <TomJ> that's not to say it would definitely be removed from Solaris 11 [22:10:24] <palowoda> SFW is not an official supported consolidation. [22:11:04] <Yorlik> I always get messed with the different Solaris versions, software consolidations and stuff ... [22:11:20] <rich78> Just to understand what does a virtual console do for me? How does it differ from opening more than one console open? [22:11:38] <e^ipi> rich78: it /is/ opening more than one console [22:11:56] <palowoda> rich78: Did you read all the docs on the opensolaris site for support on VC's? [22:12:08] <Luria> wow opensolaris is really beating on this old p4/1.6 [22:12:14] <e^ipi> rich78: prior to build 100 you had one physical console [22:12:20] <rich78> nope :) [22:12:22] <rich78> OK thanks [22:12:58] <palowoda> Hey didn't Solaris have VC's once upon a time? [22:13:07] *** laga has joined #opensolaris [22:13:32] <TomJ> rich78: the virtual console stuff only applies when you are sitting in the text-only console, i.e the 80x50 or whatever size it is, pure text, what you get if you disable the graphical login and use the machine from the keyboard [22:13:38] <TomJ> with servers, you'd always access them via SSH [22:13:45] <TomJ> and if it's a workstatiion, you're highly likely to have a graphical login [22:13:51] <e^ipi> palowoda: way back in the day, they were removed when X became the norm [22:13:54] <TomJ> so I think it's rarely that useful [22:14:01] <Luria> idk, vcs and screen both have their place [22:14:27] <h3sp4wn> palowoda: From what I read the other day it was still possible to enable them on solaris 8 (dunno if the source was accurate thogh) [22:14:33] <palowoda> And with Xorg and the new VC's we come around full circule. [22:14:40] <TomJ> The thought of using a 80 x 50 screen makes me sick. My full screen Konsole terminal window gives me 220 columns by 72 rows [22:14:53] <TomJ> (at 1920x1200 res) [22:14:55] <holcomb> 80x24 4life [22:15:00] <TomJ> god is it 24? [22:15:01] * TomJ pukes [22:15:15] <h3sp4wn> 2 vt520's is not bad to use really [22:15:29] <Luria> yeah, love fullscreen vt100 on a 23" lcd [22:15:34] *** Gman has joined #opensolaris [22:15:34] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Gman [22:16:13] * TomJ uses xterm-256color [22:16:16] <TomJ> vim is lovely [22:16:19] <h3sp4wn> You can make it pretty decent if you want (at least when I used sparcs there was always 2 serial ports) dunno if that is still true [22:16:34] <laga> hello. i'm wondering how power efficient opensolaris is. i'm thinking about installing it on my laptop and i'd hate to waste more power than with a recent linux kernel [22:16:36] <ballChalk> so build 100 has virtual consoles...thats cool [22:16:52] *** Gman_ has quit IRC [22:17:02] <palowoda> laga: How much power are you talking about? [22:17:06] <e^ipi> laga: unfortunately, not really... there's a team of people, some of whom are Intel, working on it though, so stay tuned [22:17:48] *** syamajala2 has quit IRC [22:17:56] <laga> palowoda: anything from "makes me lose 15 minutes of battery time" to "second degree burns on sensitive parts of my body" [22:18:01] <laga> e^ipi: thanks. [22:18:01] <codestr0m> laga: have you actually ran powertop on your laptop? [22:18:10] <laga> codestr0m: yes [22:18:20] <codestr0m> laga: and how many watts are you currently using? [22:18:25] <palowoda> I thought the power management was already implemented with Nevada? [22:18:28] <e^ipi> laga: http://opensolaris.org/os/community/pm/ [22:18:37] <laga> codestr0m: around 15W usually. [22:19:07] <codestr0m> laga: that's pretty low.. did you manually turn your lcd down.. which proc.. things like this.. now I'm curious [22:19:19] <codestr0m> I'm *quite* familiar with how to conserve power [22:19:23] <e^ipi> laga: and http://opensolaris.org/os/project/tesla/ [22:19:47] <palowoda> 15W is diffenently quite low to measure over time an money for a laptop. [22:20:12] <laga> palowoda: it's been some time.. let me get you some update figures. [22:20:17] <ballChalk> with vista on my m1210, i manage ~20w and mantain decent performance [22:20:23] <rich78> What laptop is it? OS? etc? [22:20:27] <codestr0m> palowoda: it's not a server.. I'm sure we aren't measuring in that sense [22:20:56] * laga shuts down virtualbox, unplugs AC [22:20:58] <codestr0m> yeah.. I want to know screeen size and if he's running at lowest lcd brightness [22:21:02] <palowoda> codestr0m: What is the definition of a server/laptop power usage? [22:21:09] *** Luria has quit IRC [22:21:17] <palowoda> 10 watts? [22:21:22] <palowoda> 50 watts? [22:21:30] *** Luria has joined #opensolaris [22:21:34] <codestr0m> palowoda: for a server.. you could get something cheap and it would cost you more in power.. to toc factors in.. laptops are usually low enough to not equate the same [22:21:35] <ballChalk> my m1210's power range is 15W-35W [22:21:39] <TomJ> hmm, apparently I'm using 30watts at hte moment on Linux [22:21:46] <TomJ> that's with max brightness screen, and CPU set down to 800mhz [22:21:49] *** rrrand has joined #opensolaris [22:21:55] <codestr0m> palowoda: I can get my dell m4300 from 14w to 72w depending on what I'm doing [22:22:09] <laga> yeah, it depends a lot on workload. [22:22:28] <TomJ> dropping the screen brightness down two notches takes it down to 20 watts [22:22:28] <palowoda> Nobody can quantify a server usage capability on a laptop with respect to power. [22:22:33] <laga> right now it's using 20W. screen running at full brightness [22:24:00] <palowoda> Hey, I have SXCE running on a 5watt system. Must be a server. :) [22:24:13] <TomJ> laga: that's very good. what laptop? [22:24:56] <laga> TomJ: hp 6510b, intel core 2 duo 2.4GHz, 14.1" screen with 1440x900 pixels, 2G RAM. [22:25:05] <laga> mind you, i'm running linux. just for the record. [22:25:13] <rich78> What distro? [22:25:16] <laga> i'm sure i had it down to less. [22:25:17] <TomJ> laga: so am I, running Linux that is [22:25:22] <laga> ubuntu hardy x86 [22:25:46] <TomJ> mine is core 2 duo 2.5ghz 15", but I set it down to 800mhz to get that 30 watts with max brightness [22:25:49] <TomJ> i'm on OpenSUSE 11 [22:26:02] <TomJ> i suppose an extra inch of screen makes some difference [22:26:06] <laga> if i disabled wlan, i'd save even more power. but no wlan is no fun. [22:26:21] <palowoda> Doesn't Intel Atom have better power consumption footprint? [22:26:26] <laga> it's spending a lot of time in C0 state. i wonder why.. [22:26:34] <e^ipi> i want to throw an atom as my fileserver [22:26:41] <teknoprep> hey all [22:26:41] <holcomb> yeah [22:26:48] <rich78> wlan will always suck power. [22:26:50] <teknoprep> i did a pretty mnimal install of opensolaris [22:26:50] <e^ipi> i rarely use it for anything other than NFS [22:26:54] <teknoprep> how do i get SSH installed ? [22:27:03] <palowoda> I'm pissed I can't get my 3watt system running Solaris. [22:27:09] <Stric> the atom's don't have much cpu oompf though [22:27:14] <TomJ> palowoda: yes but much lower performance, more meant for mini laptops really [22:27:20] <e^ipi> Stric: yeah, but i don't care though [22:27:20] <Stric> and the north/south bridge suck juice.. [22:27:36] <e^ipi> it's a fileserver [22:27:38] <e^ipi> for 2 people [22:27:45] <laga> TomJ: now it's down to 15.5W. of course, brightness is too low to work with it comfortably [22:27:45] <Stric> an AMD system with underclocked a64 uses less watt for more performance [22:27:48] <rich78> teknoprep: SSH is installed by default isn't it? It was when I installed OpenSolaris [22:27:57] <teknoprep> then how do i start it ? [22:27:59] <palowoda> If it cost me more that 1 dollar to run Solaris for a month I should be pissed. [22:28:06] <teknoprep> its not inside of /etc/init.d [22:28:27] <rich78> teknoprep: Sorry are you trying to SSH in or out? [22:28:32] <teknoprep> in [22:28:36] <teknoprep> ssh server [22:28:42] <rich78> Should just work [22:28:51] <rich78> I SSH'd in from my MACOSX [22:28:54] <teknoprep> lol [22:28:56] <rich78> from base install [22:28:56] <teknoprep> it doesn't [22:29:03] <e^ipi> teknoprep: init.d is deprecated. [22:29:06] <e^ipi> teknoprep: don't use it. [22:29:08] <teknoprep> ok [22:29:08] <e^ipi> teknoprep: ever. [22:29:11] <teknoprep> what is it now ? [22:29:13] <e^ipi> man svcs [22:29:20] <e^ipi> SMF > init.d [22:29:25] <teknoprep> i don't have man installed [22:29:27] <holcomb> >>>> [22:29:30] <rich78> OpenSolaris 2005.05 [22:29:37] <ballChalk> its nice... but slows boot a lot [22:29:38] <laga> it seems this package management thing is quite slow at resolving dependencies. [22:29:40] <rich78> What build did you install? [22:29:49] *** syamajala2 has joined #opensolaris [22:29:53] <teknoprep> rich78, the newest [22:29:56] <teknoprep> 2008something [22:30:04] <teknoprep> a very minimal install tho [22:30:09] <teknoprep> the second lowest one [22:30:17] <teknoprep> 800megs or something like that [22:30:26] *** syamajala2 has quit IRC [22:30:35] <rich78> teknoprep: 2008.05 is the newest. I just did default install. Perhaps that's the reason? I've only installed it once [22:30:37] <e^ipi> teknoprep: you've run in to the reason why we tell everyone "use full+oem and remove things you don't need" [22:30:48] <teknoprep> /usr/local/sbin/sshd [22:30:53] <palowoda> 2008.05 is not the newest. [22:31:01] <e^ipi> rich78: different distro. teknoprep is using SXCE, you are using indiana [22:31:14] <rich78> Okey dokes :) [22:32:04] *** Rarok has joined #opensolaris [22:32:05] <codestr0m> anyone know if the tesla project actually pushes updates. I just did an hg pull and didn't get anything new and I know it's been a while since I ran it [22:32:19] <rich78> Well I'm off to download 5 CD's of Solaris 10!!!! 5!!! Where's the need? [22:32:30] <ballChalk> get the dvd... [22:32:39] <rich78> I would if I had a DVD to burn too [22:32:41] <rich78> :) [22:32:46] *** Pietro_S has joined #opensolaris [22:32:49] <e^ipi> rich78: got an NFS server around? [22:32:51] <ballChalk> get cd1 and set up the rest on nfs [22:32:57] <e^ipi> get the dvd iso, export it, and boot from cd1 [22:33:00] <e^ipi> yeah, what ballChalk said [22:33:05] *** gnusosa has joined #opensolaris [22:33:09] *** benr has joined #opensolaris [22:33:09] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o benr [22:33:26] <rich78> ok cool thanks. Sounds like a plan [22:33:43] <Luria> um is there are reason why open solaris isnt using my .bashrc? i notice that it should be setting the pager to less by default... [22:33:49] <laga> not having a GNU userland is scary for me. will i break much by installing things like "ps" from GNU? [22:34:05] *** syamajala2 has joined #opensolaris [22:34:09] <ballChalk> laga: no it wont. just dont overwrite the system ps. because that would make it sad [22:34:14] <e^ipi> laga: why would you need it? [22:34:19] <codestr0m> laga: take the jump.. get used to the spartan way to alias things [22:34:21] <e^ipi> laga: ps -ef works everywhere [22:34:52] <e^ipi> laga: and yes, you will break things by having a GNU userland [22:35:02] <codestr0m> yeah and pkill instead of killall cause solaris likes to be different :P [22:35:19] <ballChalk> i learned what 'killall' did as root on an aix machine [22:35:20] <codestr0m> cause if you killall HUP foo as root you'll find out soon enough :P [22:35:36] <e^ipi> codestr0m: solaris was first, so it's not really solaris that's different [22:35:46] <laga> heh [22:35:47] <teknoprep> so ZFS is pretty easy to manage from the CLI eh ? [22:35:48] <tsoome> killall in solaris does wht is expected to do;) [22:35:57] <codestr0m> e^ipi: did you lookup the history on killall? [22:35:59] <ballChalk> teknoprep: quite [22:36:43] <gnusosa> Hi, can anybody help me out! [22:36:49] <palowoda> no [22:36:51] <ballChalk> sure, ask a question and we'll try to answer [22:36:57] <gnusosa> thank you! [22:37:12] <gnusosa> well the thing is that i just received the open solaris live cd via mail [22:37:21] <gnusosa> so when booting up [22:37:25] *** Rarok has quit IRC [22:37:34] <gnusosa> everything was running prettywell [22:37:47] <gnusosa> but after the selection of keyboard and language [22:37:49] <ballChalk> irc isnt going away just yet; take the time to gather your thoughts and make your sentences as meaningful as possible [22:37:51] <gnusosa> there seems to be a problem [22:38:00] *** syamajala2 has quit IRC [22:38:30] <phrost> how do you assign roles to a non-local user? [22:39:16] *** jgracin has quit IRC [22:39:41] <palowoda> phrost: Is a non local user from what system? [22:39:58] <laga> hum. solaris looks *clean*. and there is no sysv init AFAICS. [22:40:12] <Stric> then you're blidn [22:40:13] <laga> some BSD* can run linux apps. can solaris do that, too? [22:40:14] <Stric> blind too [22:40:16] <e^ipi> laga: there is, don't use it though, it's deprecated. SMF is better. [22:40:32] <laga> e^ipi: as i said, it doesn't exist. for me. :) [22:40:47] <e^ipi> and yes, solaris can run linux apps in a branded zone [22:40:52] <e^ipi> not the same way as freebsd though [22:42:22] <gnusosa> ballChalk, here is the question how can i boot opensolaris live cd? it seems that it's having a problem loading Nvidia Geforce 5200 [22:42:46] <laga> e^ipi: how well does that work for multimedia applications like video playback? [22:42:46] <phrost> palowoda: ldap [22:43:06] <palowoda> Because that is an old Geforce driver htat is not in the Indiana distibution. [22:43:08] <gnusosa> it gives me a warning about Nvidia: NVRAM [22:43:18] <e^ipi> laga: why would you bother? SFE has mplayer in it [22:43:40] <e^ipi> and flash/realplayer are included [22:43:41] <palowoda> phrost: ldap is not an OS. [22:43:43] <laga> e^ipi: i want mythtv. and there is no working port yet AFAIK [22:43:46] <gnusosa> palowoda, thank you do you know how can i still boot open solaris? [22:44:30] <e^ipi> *shrug* [22:44:50] *** Rocket2DMn has joined #opensolaris [22:45:05] <palowoda> gnusosa: The Indiana team has defined how to boot their opensolaris version with the old nvidia cards. [22:45:17] <gnusosa> ok thank you [22:45:22] <gnusosa> i would look it up [22:45:25] <palowoda> Aka most likely vga. [22:46:04] <sickness> laga: lots of linuxism last I've read about efforts to port mythtv... [22:46:34] <laga> yeah :( [22:46:58] <laga> although it can run on os X, some BSD and windows. so it can't be that bad. [22:47:24] <e^ipi> laga: it might just be because nobody's bothered yet [22:47:47] <e^ipi> or it could be missing stuff from libc. stay tuned on that one. [22:48:00] <palowoda> I think Ken Mays has been interested in the port of MythTV. [22:48:13] <laga> oh, people have tried. i think it was even mostly working. [22:48:14] *** cypromis has joined #opensolaris [22:48:28] <gnusosa> palowoda: any link useful about my problem? [22:48:29] <laga> i just installed opensolaris two hours aog and haven't done that much research yet :) [22:50:14] <palowoda> gnusosa: Ask on the xwindows-discuss list. But seriously do you think your going to have and an experience with that type of video controller? [22:50:36] *** Monkulus has joined #opensolaris [22:50:43] *** Luria has quit IRC [22:51:19] <palowoda> I wouldn't even use that video controller for a console. [22:51:58] <e^ipi> fun question: anyone know if there's an atx switch that works via serial console, or am i going to have to build one ( eg, to remotely turn on a machine ) [22:52:22] <TomJ> What's wrong with the 5200? I mean, it's old, but it should therefore be supported by just about everything, fine for anything except games or HD or whatever [22:52:26] <e^ipi> for cheap ghetto consumer kit [22:52:35] <e^ipi> rather than machines with actual LOMs [22:52:50] <palowoda> Ghetto Solaris I like it. [22:53:06] <gnusosa> yep [22:53:27] <e^ipi> palowoda: i'm a cheapskate, what can I say? [22:53:38] <palowoda> The US goverment should bail out Ghetto Solaris. :) [22:53:43] <gnusosa> xD [22:53:54] <e^ipi> they can give me 7bn$ any day [22:54:01] <e^ipi> i'm sure i can find a use for it [22:54:05] <palowoda> Wake me up when it happens. [22:54:19] <TomJ> for $7bn you can have Sun [22:54:20] <TomJ> that'd be useful [22:54:33] <palowoda> 700b [22:54:41] <TomJ> 100 suns [22:54:42] <e^ipi> hey, even better [22:54:44] <TomJ> that'd be what, a supernova? [22:54:55] <e^ipi> i'd start buying countries [22:57:06] *** rich78 has quit IRC [22:58:57] <palowoda> e^ipi: For 700bn you should be assured that it's buying countries. [23:04:32] <maxote> how many kilos of gold is 700bn? [23:05:19] *** alanc_away is now known as alanc [23:05:40] *** lesterc has joined #opensolaris [23:05:53] <e^ipi> gold is what? 850$/oz ? [23:05:57] <e^ipi> do the math [23:07:03] <maxote> how many kilos are 823'529'411 oz? [23:07:07] <PerterB> about 23,000 tonnes [23:07:17] <e^ipi> why not ask google, it's got converters [23:07:27] <maxote> how many trucks can carry 23'000 tonnes? [23:07:38] <PerterB> "several" [23:07:49] <palowoda> How much fuel to power those trucks? [23:07:53] *** Monkulus has quit IRC [23:07:54] <maxote> hahaha [23:07:59] <TomJ> 25 million kilos I got [23:08:19] <maxote> no oil, gold in stuck [23:09:34] <e^ipi> given the way the market's going, it can eliminate 700bn$ in a few hours [23:10:07] <palowoda> Already did. [23:10:12] <palowoda> And more. [23:10:14] <e^ipi> nice [23:10:23] <palowoda> Game over. [23:10:30] <Doc> eipi: you're joking, right? [23:10:31] <maxote> Insert coin? [23:10:40] <TomJ> i like the way they just made the number up [23:10:53] <ballChalk> Doc: when the market fell 700 points that day, that was $1.2trillion [23:11:01] <Doc> it probably changes 700 billion between bangs of the hammer... [23:11:02] <TomJ> "we need $700bn" 'what for precisely?' "we'll get analysts to work out the details leter" [23:11:03] <ballChalk> the next day, it gained 350 points - $700bn [23:11:18] <e^ipi> Doc: cynical sarcasm. [23:11:30] <maxote> and today? Wall Street lost again. [23:11:30] <ballChalk> but your synical sarcasm is the truth [23:11:50] <palowoda> By the time the bill passes it won't make a difference. [23:12:29] <palowoda> If it passes. [23:12:42] <maxote> they need money + time that they haven't [23:13:00] <ballChalk> the countries that laugh at the usa are using the same type of government-promise-backed money [23:13:00] <palowoda> Oh they have time. [23:13:07] <maxote> hahaha [23:13:22] <e^ipi> ballChalk: gold standard is just as meaningless [23:13:38] <e^ipi> "shiny rock" != value [23:13:44] <ballChalk> gold is here to stay, governments come and go [23:13:49] <e^ipi> it's value based soley on the value we place on it [23:14:06] <maxote> From the richness of America to poorness of America ala India [23:14:16] <palowoda> Japan and India are the biggest consumers of gold. [23:14:18] <ballChalk> its not meaningless, its just arbitrary [23:14:50] *** tnelson has joined #opensolaris [23:14:58] <e^ipi> the only thing that has real value is direct barter [23:15:28] <ballChalk> and direct barter is difficult... so people standardize it onto something that's pretty here-today-here-tomorrow... gold works well [23:16:40] <tnelson> Hey, so, I've just plugged in a DVD USB drive to my Sun Fire v20z running Solaris 10. cfgadm -vl reports it connected at usb0/1, and I think it's represented by /dev/rdsk/c2t0ds7. It's got the Solaris 10 u5 DVD in the drive. [23:16:44] <tnelson> How on earth do I mount it? [23:16:52] <e^ipi> i think in case of revolution, even with a gold backed currency turning paper notes in to gold is going to be difficult. [23:17:02] <tnelson> Been googling for the last 30m and am stumped. [23:17:22] <seanmcg> eject [23:17:32] <palowoda> tnelson: Does Solaris 10 and Neveda mount it the same way? [23:17:47] <davidX-> can you check proc speed from ALOM? [23:17:54] <tnelson> eject: 'No default media available' [23:18:02] <tnelson> palowoda: no idea. [23:18:09] <palowoda> tnelson: cool. [23:19:04] <seanmcg> eject -l to list ejectable media [23:19:42] <tnelson> Heh, 'eject -l': no such option -l [23:20:39] *** chumphries_ has quit IRC [23:20:58] <tnelson> Meh, none of the obvious cd[n] ones report seeing any media. [23:21:03] * tnelson tries a different CD. [23:21:19] <seanmcg> try rmformat to list the media [23:21:25] <Gman> palowoda: some of sfw is actually supported [23:21:31] <Gman> it's just a little bit of a fuzzy line [23:21:46] <Gman> (at least, in terms of support services) [23:22:09] <tnelson> rmformat: no such command :( [23:22:20] <seanmcg> now thats odd [23:22:35] <tnelson> I installed Solaris 10 via CD, and only used the first CD, as opposed to the other 5. [23:22:46] <tnelson> So I'm reasonably certain I've got a castrated installation. [23:22:56] <tnelson> man: not found [23:22:56] <tnelson> etc [23:22:58] <ballChalk> installation continues after first reboot [23:22:58] <palowoda> Gman: Come on. Forget the arguement of what is the current status of SFW support. I've heard it's all folded back into ON etc. I really don't care about the definition of support at this point because it's ill defined. [23:23:16] <tnelson> ballChalk: yeah this was ages ago and I was impatient and had to catch a flight so I didn't bother installing everything else. [23:23:24] <palowoda> Your not into support contracts either. [23:23:25] <tnelson> I'm trying to do a fresh install from the DVD. [23:23:27] <seanmcg> tnelson, do you have volcheck ? [23:23:32] <tnelson> seanmcg: no :( [23:23:42] <phrost> anyone know if roles can be assigned to groups or only users? [23:23:48] <tnelson> (But it won't boot off the DVD...) [23:24:01] *** inchworm has quit IRC [23:25:03] *** chumphries_ has joined #opensolaris [23:25:55] *** Therion has quit IRC [23:25:59] <tnelson> Do you know what pkg volcheck/rmformat and friends are in? [23:26:18] <ballChalk> tnelson: if it wont boot from the dvd, boot cd1, and mount dvd as nfs [23:26:42] *** umodjm has joined #opensolaris [23:27:42] <tnelson> That sounds reasonable. [23:27:50] <tnelson> nfs/amd is about the only thing that is worknig. [23:28:03] <umodjm> newbie needs desperate help.. how do i know what the correct c_t_d_s_ numbers are for my 1 and only HD? [23:28:30] <ballChalk> tnelson: let me specifize more, boot cd1, installer will say "please enter nfs for media" - point to server with dvd mounted [23:28:45] <umodjm> if i boot single user (from cdrom) and do "fsck /dev/rdsk/c0t0d0s0" the cdrom drive spins up crazy... like maybe IT is getting fsck'd [23:29:20] <tnelson> ballChalk: yup, gotcha'. [23:29:35] <jmcp> umodjm: run "iostat -En" [23:29:39] <jmcp> for format < /dev/null [23:29:46] <ballChalk> format < format -e [23:31:43] <umodjm> ok, it reports c0t0d0 as my WDC600BB (western dig 60gb).. and ends that entry with a "media error: 0 Device Not Ready" [23:32:08] <ballChalk> try again? [23:32:16] <umodjm> yet I've mounted it (mnt /dev/dsk/c0t0d0s0 /a) and it's readable.. [23:32:33] *** MeP3aBeu has quit IRC [23:32:47] <ballChalk> cool, there you go [23:33:04] <umodjm> oh, duh.. those look like reported error counts, and are zero. [23:33:24] * umodjm is sooo not with it.. [23:33:27] <palowoda> Was there any other error than zero? [23:34:03] <umodjm> nope, all error counters were 0. it lists two devices c0t0d0 (HDD) and c0t2d0 (cdrom) [23:34:31] <umodjm> basically, I'm trying to figure out whats wrong with my obp. I get the "file is not executable" error [23:34:56] <umodjm> so I found instructions for doing the "installboot ..." and did that, but still no joy. :-( [23:35:20] *** gnusosa has quit IRC [23:36:02] <palowoda> umodjm: Western Digital drives with OBP? [23:36:10] *** mbz has quit IRC [23:36:15] <umodjm> i just read something about checking the output of "devalias" in obp.. maybe i should check that [23:36:23] <umodjm> palowoda, is that a no-no? [23:36:39] <palowoda> Did Sun sell Western drives? [23:38:39] *** bondolo has joined #opensolaris [23:40:17] <ballChalk> my cat: http://www.flickr.com/photos/64306388@N00 [23:42:13] <umodjm> palowoda, not that I know of.. but I thought I'd done plenty of research on that.. i've read that the ultra 10 can take any drive < 120gb [23:43:29] <benley> the ultra10 can't access all of >120gb disks normally [23:43:49] <umodjm> benley: right, that's what I'd read too [23:43:54] <benley> because their ide controller is a friggin cmd646, which is like the worst IDE chip ever made [23:44:22] <benley> I used to get ultra10s that people were throwing out, put a $40 scsi card in them, and watch their disk performance increase by a factor of 10 [23:44:31] *** mega has joined #opensolaris [23:44:40] <benley> (of course, it helped that I had some scsi disks to put in them) [23:45:07] <benley> nowadays I'd recommend not using an ultra5 or ultra10 for anything. They're not worth the power that they consume. [23:45:26] <umodjm> the os200805 install *seemed* to go fine, but after the reboot i got the "The file just loaded does not appear to be executable." error [23:45:29] <benley> if you want a cheap sparc that's actually usable get an ultra60 [23:46:28] <umodjm> I'm still sort of confused about how obp works.. is it stored in some eprom somewhere or is it somewhere on the disk? [23:46:55] <benley> it's not on disk. [23:47:12] <benley> it takes the place of the BIOS on a pc. [23:48:31] <umodjm> oh, ok. thanks, that makes more sense [23:48:42] <benley> same sort of thing on powerpc macs (except the oldest ones), ibm rs6000 machines (except the oldest ones), apparently the OLPC, and probably more things I'm forgetting [23:48:55] <palowoda> umodjum: you tried to install os200805 on a U5/U10? [23:49:09] <umodjm> palowoda, yep, ultra10 (440mhz) [23:49:19] <palowoda> Impressive [23:49:30] <e^ipi> don't be dense guys... we all know indiana doesn't work on sparc yet [23:49:53] <umodjm> whoa, what? [23:50:05] <palowoda> Words [23:50:25] <umodjm> os200805 doesn't work on sparc? [23:50:30] <e^ipi> no [23:50:30] <palowoda> Duh [23:50:38] <storycrafter> too funny, guys [23:50:42] <e^ipi> neither will 2008.11 [23:50:48] *** Auralis has joined #opensolaris [23:50:51] <e^ipi> 2009.mumble might [23:51:07] <palowoda> I thought .11 was suppose to work with sparc? [23:51:09] <benley> does mumble come before or after barfuary? [23:51:28] <palowoda> Cancel the release. [23:51:35] <e^ipi> palowoda: maybe might've [23:51:36] <palowoda> Show stopper. [23:51:45] <palowoda> Stop the train. [23:51:53] <palowoda> Where where we? [23:52:07] <e^ipi> clearly it's not a show stopper [23:52:08] <benley> marrakesh. [23:52:32] <palowoda> Ok cool UltraSparc is out for the 2008.11 release. [23:53:30] <e^ipi> url? [23:53:47] <e^ipi> i was relatively certain it was a no-go still [23:53:59] <palowoda> That is what I like about platforms. [23:54:24] <benley> they suck? [23:54:30] <e^ipi> what? [23:55:02] <palowoda> Hardware is cheap. [23:55:35] <palowoda> Hardware is the hore of the industry. [23:55:36] <umodjm> you guys are confusing the h#*l out of me.. opensolaris.org clearly says the ultra10 is supported. [23:55:49] <benley> umodjm: SXCE works on sparcs. [23:55:53] <e^ipi> umodjm: by solaris express. not by opensolaris 2008.05 [23:56:01] <palowoda> umodjm: That is Nevada Not Inidana [23:56:31] <palowoda> There are two OpenSolaris release you know. [23:57:02] *** AxeZ has quit IRC [23:57:04] <umodjm> palowoda, the CE and the ___ ? [23:57:19] <palowoda> umodjm: Indiana. [23:57:19] <e^ipi> yes, dig up that dead horse and beat it some more [23:57:55] <palowoda> We all live with history. [23:58:05] <palowoda> Over and over. [23:58:10] <e^ipi> i'm still pissed off that the romans attacked my people [23:58:26] <palowoda> Your canadian? [23:58:34] <e^ipi> yes [23:58:42] <palowoda> Ahh got it. [23:58:49] <e^ipi> german/swiss/etc by heritage [23:59:39] <palowoda> Just when my brain got it wrong. I though Canadians where all Finish.