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[00:01:13] <Yorlik> I think I'll stick with apache and php -- the people i know and myself are used to it. and I don't want another learning curve in my way.  Though it sounds interesting.
[00:01:27] <e^ipi> yeah, up to you
[00:01:58] <e^ipi> i've been playing with grails lately, and it's really cool
[00:02:06] <e^ipi> like ruby on rails but in java, and not total garbage
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[00:06:34] <Yorlik> I'm not a web developer - just an application user who con do little hacks and a compile from time to time ... I'm not that deep into the developmental things.
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[00:06:55] <Yorlik> And it seems tha driver I need is not in SFW
[00:07:07] <Yorlik> I didn't find it in SFE and not on blastwave
[00:07:44] <Yorlik> I really don't understand why noone yet set it up -- i think its a key element for apache2.2 authentication. many people use mysql.
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[00:09:40] <TomJ> what source code base are you using?
[00:09:43] <TomJ> for apache in gneeral I mean
[00:10:12] <TomJ> If it's not Coolstack, then I'd start there
[00:10:48] <Yorlik> I downloaded APR and APR-Tools from the apache SVN repos
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[00:11:13] <Yorlik> In APR-Tools theres the dbd drivers for postgresql, mysql, sqllite odbc and such
[00:11:36] <Yorlik> I had several problems especially with the mysql driver
[00:11:53] <TomJ> well Coolstack has Apache, PHP and Mysql all built as one
[00:11:54] <Yorlik> And I believe a lot is setup and tools compatibility things.
[00:12:00] <TomJ> so you should really have no issue building Apache + Mysql modules from it
[00:12:19] <Yorlik> Sounds like a good idea. Apache 2.2 that is ?
[00:12:39] <TomJ> Yeah pretty uptodate
[00:12:55] <TomJ> not necessarily the very latest revision, but within 1 or 2
[00:13:12] <TomJ> it comes as binary packages and also as complete source
[00:13:39] <TomJ> I use the ibnary packages generally, but I used the Coolstack Perl source package when I wanted to build Perl 64bit
[00:13:47] <TomJ> it built first time, whereas I had loads of trouble with the generic Perl distro
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[00:21:06] <_mary_kate_> shouldn't zfs log checksum errors to fma?  i created an error with dd, but it doesn't show in fmdump
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[00:22:40] <TomJ> _mary_kate_: it certainly reports a dead disk, I thought it reported checksum failures too but I couldnt swear it
[00:23:57] <McBofh> _mary_kate_: indeed it does
[00:24:04] <_mary_kate_> i guess that's new in SX
[00:24:06] <_mary_kate_> (or U6 ;)
[00:24:10] * McBofh <3 SX
[00:24:22] <TomJ> which is new in U6? checksums?
[00:24:32] <_mary_kate_> TomJ: no, logging them to fma
[00:24:39] <TomJ> that's what I meant
[00:24:45] <TomJ> the logging of checksums (versus logging of disk failureS)
[00:24:52] <dsop> hmm where is the xorg.conf in a new opensolaris installation? even find doesn't find anythoing
[00:25:01] <_mary_kate_> dsop: there isn't one, X configures itself
[00:25:09] <_mary_kate_> dsop: run 'X -configure' and it'll write one to /etc/xorg/xorg.conf
[00:25:15] <_mary_kate_> (or perhaps /etc/xorg/.xorg.conf, i forget)
[00:25:38] <dsop> _mary_kate_: okay, because I try to speed up my x as with vesatext drivers 1400x1050 is pretty slow
[00:25:49] <alanc> _mary_kate_: /root/xorg.conf.new actually
[00:26:04] <alanc> but Xorg -configure tells you that when you create it
[00:26:50] <dsop> and it seems that there are not better drivers for ati cards
[00:26:53] <McBofh> alanc: but prior to having /root, it was generated to /, iirc
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[00:27:32] <alanc> McBofh: right - it goes to $HOME of the user running Xorg -configure, which only someone with root privs can run
[00:28:22] <alanc> dsop: depends on the card - the ati open source drivers are shipped that cover many of their cards, as long as you're not on something so bleeding edge new it's not been added yet
[00:28:52] <alanc> (I think they go up to Radeon 38xx, but no Radeon 4xxx at the moment)
[00:28:53] <dsop> alanc: but then x self configuration would detect it I guess
[00:29:13] <alanc> X autoconfig should pick the best driver it can find
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[00:33:05] <sailorvrz_> I can't decide whether to run sol10 or debian on my netra t105 :(
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[00:34:01] <e^ipi> linux on sparc is actually quite painful
[00:34:05] <e^ipi> i don't suggest it
[00:34:07] <TomJ> I understand.  I can't decide whether to eat a steak or boot polish.
[00:34:18] <e^ipi> haha, TomJ++
[00:34:47] <sailorvrz_> :P
[00:35:31] <sailorvrz_> I think I'll just go with sol10 and complete all the sun courses on sol10 administration :)
[00:35:42] <TomJ> Seriously, whatever arguments you might have for Linux vs Solaris, they just go out the window when you're on Sparc.  If you run Linux on x86, fair enough - I don't agree, but at least it's optimised for that platform.  Linux on Sparc is just bad.
[00:35:52] <TomJ> Ok, good call
[00:36:14] <sailorvrz_> Actually the sun docs are way better than any linux resources
[00:36:19] <TomJ> Yes absolutely
[00:36:47] * debian19 bye :P
[00:36:52] <TomJ> It's generally a far more professional platform.  If you're into system administration, you'll love it
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[00:37:29] <sailorvrz_> I've seen the csi:munich video by sun and was just like: "wow"
[00:38:07] <e^ipi> sailorvrz_: go watch the "bonwick fucks up some harddrives with a sledgehammer" ZFS demo video
[00:38:38] <dsop> hmm virtual box is not in IPS
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[00:39:32] <McBofh> dsop: it's a simple enough download
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[00:40:00] <dsop> McBofh: yeah I already got it
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[00:40:58] <sailorvrz_> e^ipi: that one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE7sLb2K51Q
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[00:42:14] <jbk> evening
[00:42:44] <e^ipi> sailorvrz_: yeah, that's one of 'em
[00:42:51] <sailorvrz_> sick.. just sick
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[00:47:16] <Gman> dsop: hopefully will be at some stage - we've been battling the team for a while
[00:48:56] <TomJ> hm, they kind of missed a trick in that sledgehammer video.. didn't show any side-by-side screenshtos of ZFS transferring data or anything
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[00:52:25] <reelman> guys, is there an alternative for linux seq command in opensolaris?
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[00:52:42] <seanmcg> seq is there.
[00:52:46] <TomJ> for i in {1..100} ; do echo "$i" ; done
[00:52:51] <TomJ> works in bash, ksh
[00:53:09] <TomJ> well, ksh93 anyway, not sure about ksh88
[00:53:46] <reelman> seanmcg: http://codepad.org/7T881Nqs seq is not there :(
[00:53:52] <reelman> TomJ: thanks.. a lot!
[00:54:16] <seanmcg> reelman, what build are you on ?
[00:54:17] <TomJ> you can also do c-stlye for loops
[00:54:29] <reelman> seanmcg: how do i find that?
[00:54:30] <TomJ> for (( i=0 ; i<100 ; i++ )) ; do echo "$i" ; done
[00:54:38] <seanmcg> uname -a
[00:54:46] <seanmcg> or cat /etc/release | grep snv
[00:54:51] <reelman> SunOS d9a400 5.11 snv_67 i86pc i386 i86pc
[00:54:58] <seanmcg> oh man.
[00:55:12] <reelman> seanmcg: is it bad?
[00:55:20] <TomJ> just pretty old
[00:55:27] <seanmcg> 67 is rather old...
[00:55:28] <TomJ> 2 years is it? or maybe 18 months
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[00:55:44] <reelman> this is what i get at joyent hosting
[00:55:49] <reelman> i dont know if i can change it...
[00:56:07] <McBofh> snv_67 is from June 2007
[00:56:12] <McBofh> *please* upgrade!
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[00:56:32] <reelman> McBofh: i dont know if i can.. i got this from my hosting provider.. joyent
[00:56:46] <TomJ> anyway, don't use seq, it's an ugly hack and modern shells have inbuilt features that make it unnecessary
[00:56:46] <reelman> McBofh: i dont know how to do it also!
[00:56:59] <reelman> TomJ:cool. .OK... ill use the for loop stuff u gave..
[00:57:08] <reelman> that seems cool.. and it will work in both linux and opensolaris
[00:57:14] <McBofh> reelman: I'd log a ticket with joyent, in that case
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[00:57:18] <TomJ> anywhere that has bash and ksh93, yes
[00:57:24] <McBofh> or hang around here waiting for benr to show up, then hassle him
[00:57:37] <reelman> McBofh:benr works for joyent?
[00:57:45] <bda> You could say that.
[00:57:58] <TomJ> (but not ksh88, just checked)
[00:58:23] <reelman> TomJ: i dont even know what ksh88 is :D!
[00:58:39] <McBofh> reelman: last I heard, yeah :)
[00:58:53] <e^ipi> reelman: it's the 1988 version of ksh
[00:59:03] <TomJ> reelman: OK, well it works in all recent versions of bash which is what I expect you're using, so no worries
[00:59:27] <reelman> e^ipi: oh man!!!! 1988!!!!! you guys are saying june 2007 sun solaris version is very old!!!! and i should upgrade!!!
[00:59:30] <reelman> no to ksh88!
[00:59:44] <TomJ> hehe, well yes ksh88 is old. but ksh93 sounds like it should be old, but it is not.
[00:59:46] <e^ipi> well, the 1988 standard anyways
[00:59:53] <e^ipi> and ksh93 is the new standard
[00:59:56] <e^ipi> and it's lovely
[01:00:01] <reelman> better than bash?
[01:00:04] <e^ipi> bash can die in a fire
[01:00:09] <TomJ> bash is a fine shell
[01:00:15] <TomJ> ksh93 has bette rprogramming features, yes
[01:00:24] <TomJ> but bash can be better as your command line shell
[01:00:33] <reelman> i like the tab complete in bash
[01:00:36] <reelman> does ksh93 have that?
[01:00:44] <TomJ> It doesn't have as good programmable completion
[01:00:55] <TomJ> if you mean just filename tab completion than ksh93 should have that
[01:00:55] <e^ipi> reelman: yes, it has completion
[01:01:09] <e^ipi> and I like the ksh93 one better, snice it's not stuck to the particular instance
[01:01:21] <reelman> e^ipi:hmm.. ok... i will check it sometime
[01:01:26] <reelman> i bet it works on linux also right?
[01:01:29] <e^ipi> so a new xterm doesn't mean I lose all my history
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[01:01:39] <e^ipi> reelman: yep, it should be in your package repo of choice as "ksh"
[01:01:42] <bda> e^ipi: Global history has bitten me on a few occassions.
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[01:01:59] <TomJ> I could not live without global history.  I set bash to append after every command, so I can never lose a command
[01:02:00] <bda> Where I'll uparrow in a term after doing other stuff, and run a command I really didn't expect to.
[01:02:08] <TomJ> and opening a new shell means I immediately have the history of any previous shell
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[01:02:48] <TomJ> well, I suppose that's not global as in they're not live sharing, you have to open a new shell (or run history -r) to incorporate history form a parallel shell
[01:03:28] <reelman> no command history?man, that is a deal breaker
[01:03:38] <TomJ> reelman: all modern shells have command history
[01:03:46] <reelman> oh ok
[01:04:09] <e^ipi> some linux distros like to leave it out of ksh because they are license bigots
[01:04:12] <e^ipi> but it's there
[01:04:20] <bda> Eh?
[01:04:39] <TomJ> the command history in ksh has a different license?
[01:05:07] <_mary_kate_> i find shared history the most annoying feature ever
[01:05:23] <_mary_kate_> if i leave a shell for a couple of days, and come back, i have to page up through hundreds of lines to find the command i want
[01:05:32] <TomJ> do you mean live shared? or just after a new shell invocation?
[01:06:12] <e^ipi> TomJ: no, ksh isn't gpl, and leaving out the command history is a way to make it painful enough that people continue to use bash
[01:06:21] <TomJ> like, you open shell 1, type 'blah',  open shell 2, type 'foo', then hit up arrow in shell 1 and get 'foo' ?
[01:06:26] <TomJ> if so, then yeah I'd hate that too
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[01:06:46] <TomJ> e^ipi: which distro does that?
[01:07:26] <e^ipi> ubuntu does, presumably others as well
[01:07:30] <e^ipi> and fedora
[01:07:52] <e^ipi> they don't rip it out, but they don't enable it by default either
[01:07:53] <reelman> TomJ: fedora's bash doesnt do what u describe
[01:08:17] <reelman> TomJ: only after you close both shells, it will go into global command history
[01:08:23] <TomJ> I know, reelman
[01:08:27] <TomJ> I dont think bash has that feature at all
[01:08:31] <e^ipi> reelman: that's what we're talking about
[01:08:35] <e^ipi> reelman: it's annoying as piss
[01:08:43] <e^ipi> i want a global history
[01:08:47] <reelman> ok!
[01:09:22] <TomJ> e^ipi: so you want parallel shells shellA and shellB to be up-arrowing through the same live history?  that is,  command 'foo' typed in shell1 immediately will appear as the first up-arrow in shell2 ?
[01:09:35] <houst0n-> That's horrible
[01:09:42] <houst0n-> $0.02
[01:09:46] <bda> Indeed.
[01:09:54] <TomJ> Yes, I can't imagine why anyone would want that
[01:09:57] <bda> Madness.
[01:10:07] <houst0n-> There are some sick, sick people out there though
[01:10:09] <TomJ> That's why I'm wondering if he means something different
[01:10:14] <houst0n-> Hell, there are people who actually *CHOOSE* emacs
[01:10:15] <houst0n-> ;PP
[01:10:24] <McBofh> houst0n-: oi!
[01:10:25] <e^ipi> TomJ: because i don't always use the same xterm?
[01:10:29] * houst0n- ducks
[01:10:45] <McBofh> houst0n-: I _like_ my kitchen sink, tyvm
[01:10:52] <e^ipi> instance-bound history was great back in 1985 when you were logged in once
[01:10:53] <houst0n-> hehehe
[01:11:04] <e^ipi> but it's 2008 now, and people use more than one shell at a time
[01:11:20] <TomJ> Ok, well each to their own.  I log in dozens of times and I'd detest that
[01:11:25] * jbk once set a user's shell to emacs
[01:11:45] <reelman> ha ha!! its funny what jbk wrote!
[01:11:46] <TomJ> with auto-append-after-each-command history, I can type history -r or open a new shell if I want the history from any parallel login
[01:11:46] <houst0n-> I generally ln -s /opt/csw/bin/vim /opt/csw/bin/emacs on all my machines
[01:11:50] <houst0n-> Just to piss em off
[01:11:54] <houst0n-> :P
[01:12:29] <reelman> TomJ: i dont get what you are saying..
[01:12:36] <reelman> how can i get shared global history?
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[01:12:49] <reelman> i think i like what e^ipi is saying
[01:12:54] <TomJ> reelman: I dont know if you can in bash
[01:12:55] <houst0n-> I don't think it's possible
[01:12:56] <reelman> i prefer shared global history too..
[01:12:59] <reelman> hmm..
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[01:13:16] <e^ipi> reelman: use ksh93 ( or in linux just 'ksh' )
[01:13:42] <reelman> e^ipi: am definitely goign to check it out.. but i have a lot of scripts written in bash..
[01:13:51] <reelman> do you know if they will run on ksh?
[01:14:19] <TomJ> yeah almost certainly
[01:14:26] <TomJ> there's a few exceptions, PIPESTATUS springs to mind
[01:14:35] <TomJ> but if you're not doing anything advanced, then almost certainly
[01:14:40] <e^ipi> probably, either way if they have #!/bin/bash up top, they'll work regardless
[01:14:50] <e^ipi> though you might want to look at writing new scripts in ksh
[01:15:08] <e^ipi> (they'll probably be faster... ksh has everything and the kitchen sink as a builtin )
[01:15:14] <houst0n-> Or just use perl and forget either...
[01:15:20] <reelman> i hate perl!
[01:15:22] <e^ipi> example:
[01:15:23] <reelman> it is too messed up!
[01:15:23] <e^ipi> $ cat --version version         cat (AT&T Research) 2006-05-17
[01:15:26] <reelman> love python !
[01:15:33] <houst0n-> python... PYTHON?!?!
[01:15:35] <e^ipi> note that it is not solaris, nor GNU cat...
[01:15:37] <e^ipi> it is ksh93 cat.
[01:15:43] <houst0n-> The language where whitespace denonates behaviour?
[01:15:46] <houst0n-> It's disgusting.
[01:15:49] <seanmcg> reelman, SUNWgnu-coreutils went into snv_67 so seq should be there I think..  maybe that packages isn't installed.
[01:15:54] <TomJ> fight, fight, fight
[01:16:03] * houst0n- points you to ruby website
[01:16:07] <reelman> e^ipi: hmm..ok..
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[01:16:09] <TomJ> seanmcg: stop trying to get him to use seq!
[01:16:28] <reelman> houst0n: actually whitespace is awesome.. once u get used to it
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[01:16:58] <houst0n-> I've been writing code for quite some time, I don't think I'd ever get used to a lang where the number of tabs changes how my code behaves
[01:17:05] <houst0n-> It's just _WRONG_. Flawed. Etc.
[01:17:05] <e^ipi> if you're perverse, or roland ( not implying an exclusive or here ), you could replace most of UNIX userland with ksh93
[01:17:19] <houst0n-> I really don't understand why sun chose it for ips
[01:17:23] <reelman> houst0n:give.. it a shot man.. it is awesome.. anythign u do in python is like writing in english!
[01:17:33] <e^ipi> houst0n-: because it's fast to prototype stuff in *shrug*
[01:17:40] <houst0n-> reelman: You've never tried ruby?
[01:17:45] <houst0n-> 4.times {|x| print x};
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[01:17:48] <reelman> seanmcg: thanks... i guess you are right.. .. but i am going to use the for--loop stuff ...
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[01:17:55] <houst0n-> That's syntatic sugah baby
[01:17:56] <e^ipi> ruby is an abomination
[01:18:04] <reelman> houst0n: i did.. i hate ruby too
[01:18:07] <e^ipi> sooooooo..... sloooooooooowwwwww
[01:18:09] <reelman> nothing like python!
[01:18:13] <seanmcg> TomJ more options doesn't hurt :)
[01:18:15] <houst0n-> Yeah, it's slow, but it's a scripting language
[01:18:21] <houst0n-> if you want speed use c, or perl even
[01:18:33] <e^ipi> it's also ugly and a pain in the ass to work with
[01:18:38] <houst0n-> And well, speed isn't so valid when most boxes these days have 4 or 8 cores
[01:18:45] <reelman> you got it right e^ipi!
[01:18:48] <reelman> that is what ruby is a pain!
[01:18:56] <houst0n-> Flamebait
[01:18:56] <houst0n-> ;)
[01:19:01] <reelman> ha ha!!
[01:19:16] <houst0n-> But really, ruby is quite a cute little lang - in my humble opinion anyway
[01:19:38] <houst0n-> someone mentioned a new one today in #blastwave actually... errm.. falcon or something
[01:19:41] <houst0n-> Anyone tried it?
[01:20:02] <TomJ> god not another one
[01:20:09] <houst0n-> http://www.falconpl.org/
[01:20:11] <reelman> anyways.. guys..  thanks a lot for the help with my seq stuff... gtg..
[01:20:13] <TomJ> actually if I ever make a language, that's what I'll call it
[01:20:14] <houst0n-> TomJ: that was my initial reaction also heh
[01:20:19] <TomJ> GNAO
[01:20:41] <houst0n-> reelman: cya later dude
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[01:22:50] <e^ipi> houst0n-: no, speed wouldn't be a problem with 4 or 8 cores if ruby were multithreadded
[01:22:53] <e^ipi> but it's not
[01:22:54] <e^ipi> so it is.
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[01:23:04] <houst0n-> e^ipi: It is if you use jruby
[01:23:08] <benley> ruby has no threading support?!
[01:23:09] <houst0n-> afaik
[01:23:13] <e^ipi> benley: nope
[01:23:17] <houst0n-> benley: Erm... well... not realy
[01:23:19] <benley> jesus, I knew there was a reason I was sticking with python
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[01:24:31] <e^ipi> i think ruby mostly got a lot of hype not for it's own merits, but because of rails
[01:24:54] <e^ipi> rails is kinna neat, but grails lets you use java
[01:25:06] <houst0n-> I've never used rails, as far as  I've seen, everyone who has used rails has ditched it eventually
[01:25:11] <houst0n-> It's too slow
[01:25:22] <houst0n-> I've read some proper horror stories re: rails
[01:25:40] <houst0n-> But for little scripts, for example freebsd's portupgrade - it's perfect
[01:26:05] <houst0n-> Easy to write, easy to read, and quite powerful really. You can make 1+1 return 17 if you wanted
[01:26:39] <jbk> e^ipi: but java is 'slow'.. didn't you test it in 1997 thereby proving it conclusively or all eternity? :)
[01:26:53] <houst0n-> Java isn't that slow...
[01:26:56] <houst0n-> BAD java is
[01:27:07] <jbk> i know, i'm just being a bit sarcastic
[01:27:13] <houst0n-> I didn't notice ;)
[01:27:18] <e^ipi> you could also write it in a sane language, and then the programmer who has to deal with it after you won't assume 1+1 = 2 ( like a sane language would enforce ) while it actually = 17
[01:27:35] <jbk> heh
[01:27:46] <jbk> elsewhere, we were having a conversation on the horrors of perl
[01:27:57] <houst0n-> Well, that was just an example, I really meant you can change class functions (like +, which is actually Fixnum.+) while your prog is running
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[01:28:10] <houst0n-> Which would change every Fixnum obj
[01:28:10] <jbk> after someone had to figure out how change the default bucket size for hashes in perl
[01:28:43] <houst0n-> jbk: I once tried to read the perl src... I gave up after about an hour
[01:28:58] <houst0n-> jbk: It is, however, installed _everywhere_ and quite useful for some things
[01:29:07] <jbk> so i have to ask, does your nick indicate where you are?
[01:29:08] <e^ipi> it's also pretty fast, as scripting languages go
[01:29:11] <houst0n-> Obviously, not to everyone
[01:29:27] <houst0n-> jbk: Nah, houston is my surname, I'm in scotland
[01:29:43] <jbk> oh ok
[01:29:53] <orinoko> i'm having trouble with the GM965 chipset panic on install bug... should /etx/X11/xorg.conf already exist when i mv my edited xorg.conf.new to this file?
[01:29:53] <McBofh> which part of Scotland?
[01:29:57] <houst0n-> Inverness
[01:30:08] <jbk> <-- in houston, and the tech/geek community is rather small here, so it's always good when i do run into someone else
[01:30:12] <e^ipi> What a coincidence!!! scotland is my surname, I'm in houston!!!
[01:30:18] <jbk> haha
[01:30:20] <houst0n-> e^ipi: no waiiiiiiiiii!
[01:30:38] <houst0n-> McBofh: I'm assuming you're in scotland also by your handle?
[01:30:42] <McBofh> houst0n-: I regret to say that despite Scottish ancestry on both sides of the family, my knowledge of Scotland is minimal and mainly comes from Ian Rankin books
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[01:30:57] <houst0n-> Well, you're not missing much
[01:30:59] <McBofh> nope, part-surname, part..... other :)
[01:31:01] <McBofh> heh
[01:31:05] <houst0n-> Rain, Knife crime, Heroin...
[01:31:10] <houst0n-> Although the hills etc are kinda cool
[01:31:20] <TomJ> are they alive with the sound of bagpipes?
[01:31:25] <houst0n-> Sometimes
[01:31:50] <orinoko> many IT jobs there, houst0n?
[01:32:01] <TomJ> orinoko: are you from Wimbledon?
[01:32:14] <houst0n-> orinoko: Ha no not really
[01:32:31] <TomJ> oh that was Orinoco actually
[01:32:41] <orinoko> TomJ, i'm a womble in spirit only
[01:32:56] <jbk> my previous company had an office in glasglow (on what used to be a farm field, hence their mascot was a cow)
[01:32:57] <houst0n-> There's a few outsourcing companies here, which have the majority of the techies who live here. Mainly because they can pay them roughly 1/2 what they do in London
[01:33:07] <jbk> that's about as close as i've come :)
[01:33:13] <houst0n-> Most of them are "rightshoring" (offshoring) the work to poland though so lots of layoffs
[01:33:26] <houst0n-> Although they're starting to realise the .pl it people are BOLLOCKS
[01:33:55] <houst0n-> (No offense if any .pl ppl here heh
[01:33:57] <e^ipi> it's like that with any low-pay offshoring company
[01:34:06] <orinoko> might have to tell the misses to wait a few years before we up sticks then... we love scotland
[01:34:34] <e^ipi> it's not so much that indians or polish or romanian in general are shite, its' the companies that do offshoring buy up any moron off the street that can turn on a computer and put them to work
[01:34:37] <houst0n-> orinoko: Where were you planning on going?
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[01:34:47] <e^ipi> there are intelligent people, they just don't work for offshoring co's
[01:35:05] <jbk> heh yeah
[01:35:31] <jbk> a previous company i worked at tried that
[01:35:34] <orinoko> somewhere around inverness actually, we probably couldn't handle being as remote as skye which is where we dream of occasionally
[01:35:46] <houst0n-> orinoko: Heh I was born in skye, my family lives there
[01:35:52] <houst0n-> Ever been to Dunvegan?
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[01:36:12] <McBofh> are they all carnivores there?
[01:36:23] <houst0n-> Mostly, and there are almost no trees
[01:36:29] <houst0n-> Too much wind, it's pretty crazy
[01:36:36] <orinoko> no, don't think so. we have friends who live in plockton so have spent a bit of time there.
[01:36:38] <e^ipi> McBofh: i think vegetarians are a pacific rim thing
[01:36:50] <e^ipi> and india ( do they count in pac. rim? )
[01:36:51] <McBofh> heh
[01:36:52] <houst0n-> Ah, it's worth a visit
[01:36:55] <houst0n-> =)
[01:36:59] <McBofh> e^ipi: not so much
[01:37:07] <jbk> seriously, i think the outsource company (which rhymes with EDS) found random people in a popular outsource destination, asked them if they could say 'oracle' and gave them jobs as dbas
[01:37:09] <orinoko> we know a forest planner there, maybe he should give it some thought
[01:37:19] <e^ipi> McBofh: how do you mean?
[01:37:33] <McBofh> India really ain't anywhere near the Pacific
[01:37:39] <houst0n-> jbk: You should see Capgemini and Fujitsu's offshored desks
[01:37:41] <jbk> even other people from the same country (but were not only compitent, but quite sharp) couldn't understand them
[01:37:50] <McBofh> hint: if it's got an ocean named after it .....
[01:37:52] <houst0n-> It's not really funny tbh, they're terrible
[01:37:59] <e^ipi> McBofh: :P
[01:38:17] <e^ipi> trading regions...
[01:38:31] <houst0n-> although the oracle people I deal with in india are very good, although a little hard to understand on the phone =)
[01:38:42] <jbk> he goes to me after trying for 15+ minute to get the guy to spell out his email address 'you guys are screwed' :)
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[01:39:07] <jbk> well as e^ipi said, there are sharp people, but they're not going to be the ones workign for dirt-cheap prices, even over there
[01:39:24] <jbk> thus a company trying to be cheap and outsourcing to a cheap company will not get them
[01:39:35] <houst0n-> Well oracle people are never dirt cheap, the real problems are with the windows folk, not that that really bothers us
[01:39:50] <houst0n-> Helpdesk/win server people
[01:39:54] <McBofh> and then they'll complain that their outsourcing project failed because "all the people in $country are crap"
[01:40:32] <houst0n-> McBofh: Heh I've seen that a lot, mostly they just throw buckets of training at that point
[01:41:10] 
[01:41:24] <houst0n-> Idiots. :P
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[01:42:00] <e^ipi> if my job were crap and someone offered me double the pay, you better believe i'd take it
[01:42:08] <houst0n-> Damn right
[01:42:19] <McBofh> it never ceases to amaze me that the same $manglement which decides that outsourcing to a cheaper country is good, then proceed to be amazed that people leave in search of better pay and conditions after getting some training and experience
[01:42:20] <houst0n-> Hell, I'd do it for a lot less than double
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[01:43:13] <thana> what is the --sdl switch of virt-install good for?
[01:43:26] <houst0n-> McBofh: Never underestimate the power of $manglement :P
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[01:43:54] <e^ipi> thana: not much... also don't use gnu -- long options, -- typically means 'end of options'
[01:43:56] <houst0n-> thana: Use Simple DirectMedia Layer (SDL) for graphics support
[01:43:58] <McBofh> yeah, tue
[01:44:01] <McBofh> true, too
[01:44:09] <houst0n-> man virt-install told me that, perhaps check it next time?
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[01:44:45] <thana> e^ipi: it doesn't have short form for --sdl
[01:44:49] <e^ipi> houst0n-: manual pages!? what are you, some kind of UNIX grey-beard or something?
[01:44:53] <e^ipi> thana: that's unfortunate...
[01:45:08] <thana> houst0n-: i read it. but it doesn't tells me anything. what is it good for? :)
[01:45:12] <e^ipi> thana: either way i'm not sure that it works anyways
[01:45:13] <houst0n-> e^ipi: /exec -o man virt-install | col -bx
[01:45:15] <houst0n-> ;)
[01:46:16] <e^ipi> clearly you should be annoying people on IRC rather than reading actual documentation, reading docs gives you information in a timely fashion, which means you have more work and less screwing around to do
[01:46:23] <houst0n-> thana: If you don't know what it is, then you probably don't need it... However, SDL is a graphics lib which has low-level access to your hw, so it's *faster* than some things
[01:46:34] <thana> e^ipi: me too... i expected it to pop up a windows showing the screen-content of the virtual machine (this behavior i know from linux' kvm...)
[01:46:35] <houst0n-> afaik sxce doesn't build it with opengl support, that may have changed though
[01:46:53] <e^ipi> do we even deliver SDL at all?
[01:46:57] <houst0n-> erm
[01:47:07] <houst0n-> SUNWlibsdl/
[01:47:09] <houst0n-> yes
[01:47:15] <e^ipi> huh, live and learn
[01:49:17] <thana> mmh maybe xvm virtualbox is more suitable for me...
[01:49:30] <houst0n-> thana: What are you going to be using it for?
[01:49:36] <McBofh> I think VBox's graphics support for MS-Windows is better, at this point
[01:49:42] <houst0n-> I have a few vms running in virtualbox on my machine, it works very well for me
[01:49:42] <McBofh> better than xVM server
[01:49:53] <houst0n-> Hell, my vista vm opens visual studio with no splash screen!
[01:50:04] <houst0n-> Takes about ... 2 seconds longer to boot the vm than on bare metal
[01:50:09] <houst0n-> performance is great tbh
[01:50:35] <houst0n-> I believe vmware just announced directx 6 support - which is impressive
[01:50:36] <thana> houst0n-: from time to time watch a movie inside a linux vm...
[01:50:46] <houst0n-> Why use a vm to watch a film?
[01:51:02] <McBofh> regression testing :)
[01:51:07] <houst0n-> lol
[01:51:11] <thana> hehe
[01:51:16] <houst0n-> No, but really
[01:51:22] <houst0n-> ?!
[01:51:31] <thana> the movies codecs are causing trouble in solaris
[01:51:36] <_mary_kate_> houst0n-: to get that vintage 50's stuttering effect
[01:51:41] <houst0n-> thana: Ok, step 1) go to www.blastwave.org
[01:51:49] <thana> houst0n-: [x] done
[01:51:51] <houst0n-> thana: Install pkg-get then pkg-get -i mplayer
[01:51:55] <thana> houst0n-: [x] done
[01:51:57] <houst0n-> Then pkg-get -i vlc
[01:52:04] <houst0n-> Then, pkgrm CSWvlc
[01:52:14] <houst0n-> download the "new" one from http://blastwave.network.com/testing/index_cron
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[01:52:21] <houst0n-> you may need to update some of the deps manually
[01:52:29] <houst0n-> download the "new" one from http://blastwave.network.com/testing/index_cron.html * even
[01:52:52] <houst0n-> I watch xvid/wmv/x264 without issues on b98 here
[01:52:59] <thana> hmmm
[01:53:28] <houst0n-> What problems do you have?
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[01:56:25] <thana> currently nothing. thank you :)
[01:56:28] <houst0n-> there's also a new build of mplayer in /testing
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[02:08:41] <bsdbandit> when installing opensolaris im getting the root password for system maintence prompt
[02:08:52] <McBofh> that's correct
[02:08:56] <houst0n-> Hi bsdbandit
[02:09:01] <bsdbandit> but this is happening while installing i dont know the root passwd
[02:09:03] <bsdbandit> hi
[02:09:23] <bsdbandit> im installing opensolaris on vmware
[02:09:28] <bsdbandit> and im getting this
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[02:09:32] <houst0n-> pastebin?
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[02:14:02] <houst0n-> I've not actually used "opensolaris" the distro in a while - has it gotten any better?
[02:14:29] <dclarke> houst0n-: I just installed it again
[02:14:33] <dclarke> fresh install
[02:14:38] <houst0n-> Oh hi dennis, how's it going mate?
[02:14:39] <dclarke> install was very very easy too
[02:14:45] <dclarke> oh .. doin alright
[02:14:53] <dclarke> life is a bit tough .. but in general .. okay
[02:15:05] <houst0n-> I need to ask you some things actually, #blastwave may be better for that though =)
[02:15:47] <dclarke> okay ..
[02:15:49] <dclarke> one sec
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[02:16:58] <dclarke> one sec .. gotta boot my new os2008_snv98_whatever_rev machine
[02:17:50] <dclarke> hrmm .. oh oh
[02:17:55] <dclarke> funny birning smell
[02:18:06] <dclarke> burning
[02:18:18] <dclarke> I heard a beep
[02:18:24] <dclarke> maybe is passes post .. maybe not
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[02:25:07] <Tpenta> evening dennis
[02:30:08] <dclarke> Alan
[02:30:17] <dclarke> long time .. no .. signal
[02:31:01] <dclarke> I was about to write a literate reply to that linux-fan boy article
[02:31:15] <dclarke> but it will take me some hours to write it .. some real research
[02:32:28] <dclarke> question .. has anyone written anything for peole that want to use OpenSolaris with a modem ?
[02:32:58] <dclarke> I have just installed a US Robotics modem into my OpenSolaris machine and was about to configure CHAP/PAP auth for PPP dial up
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[02:33:15] <e^ipi> no, nor has anything been written for those that would like to use it via RS232 console, or who would like to attach a punch card reader to it
[02:33:30] <e^ipi> ;)
[02:33:31] <dclarke> RS232 ? you mean ttya ?
[02:33:33] <dclarke> I have
[02:34:38] <dclarke> see http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/blog/?q=node/110
[02:34:56] <dclarke> see terminal pics at http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/blog/images/junk/grub_menu.jpeg
[02:35:50] <dclarke> e^ipi : you're mocking me aren't you ..
[02:36:15] <dclarke> well .. gee ... I just installed the latest and am using a ttya console with it : http://rafb.net/p/y9I5eE71.html
[02:36:23] <e^ipi> only a little :)
[02:36:29] <benley> that looks like a vt220
[02:36:47] <dclarke> benley: well .. actually it is the Link MC5
[02:36:51] <benley> ahh
[02:37:00] <dclarke> benley: amber font .. very nice on my desk
[02:37:09] <houst0n-> Heh nice screenshot on your blog
[02:37:14] <dclarke> and yes .. it is *on* my desk
[02:37:24] <houst0n-> Really out now though
[02:37:31] <houst0n-> ;)
[02:37:38] <e^ipi> i still would very much like to see an old actual VT101 hooked up to a niagra box
[02:37:41] <e^ipi> as a desktop wallpaper
[02:37:57] <dclarke> e^ipi : you want what ?
[02:38:05] <dclarke> e^ipi : I cna get that for you right now
[02:38:08] <dclarke> one sec
[02:38:28] * dclarke thinks he should know better than to say such things around Mr. junk pile I have Sparc everything
[02:39:18] * benley no longer has sparc anything! :-P
[02:39:25] <benley> wait, that's a total lie
[02:39:29] <benley> I have an ultra60 sitting next to my desk
[02:39:31] <benley> but it's unplugged
[02:39:42] <dclarke> I have a running Sparc 20
[02:39:58] <_mary_kate_> doesn't everyone?
[02:40:00] <benley> if I had a sparcstation 20, I'd probably have NeXTSTEP installed on it
[02:40:05] <dclarke> and Solaris 2.51 here
[02:40:14] <dclarke> sorry .. 2.5.1
[02:40:43] <dclarke> on .. x86 in fact
[02:41:38] <benley> I used to have a HALStation/310 running "sparc64OS 2.4", but that didn't move with me when I left university :)
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[02:44:26] <dclarke> http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/T2000/T2000_lom_timeout.jpeg
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[02:44:43] <dclarke> http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/T2000/T2000_power_on.jpeg
[02:45:19] <e^ipi> got a picture of the actual terminal sitting on/next to the actual machine?
[02:45:20] <dclarke> e^ipi : my desk again : http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/T2000/T2000.jpeg
[02:45:30] <dclarke> e_ipi : looking for it
[02:45:31] <dclarke> I had it
[02:45:52] <dclarke> found pizza : http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/T2000/T2000_mess.jpeg
[02:46:48] <benley> dammit that reminds me that I'm hungry
[02:46:55] <benley> and yet, I'm still in the stinking office
[02:47:07] <dclarke> that is aloud
[02:47:11] <dclarke> allowed
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[02:47:55] <dclarke> e_ipi : sorry
[02:48:06] <e^ipi> no worries
[02:48:25] <dclarke> e_ipi : I did find a 10 sec time exposure shot of the rear : http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/T2000/T2000_rear.jpeg
[02:51:24] * benley digs through photos and finds this: http://zoiks.net/~benley/scarymess.jpg
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[02:52:28] <houst0n-> benley: arrrgghh!
[02:52:45] <benley> fortunately that no longer exists
[02:52:54] <houst0n-> God redoing that must have taken hours
[02:53:11] <benley> oh it got redone by completely ripping everything out
[02:54:20] <houst0n-> At least they're labelled
[02:54:24] <cchapman> my datacenter looks like that
[02:54:33] <dclarke> that is nasty
[02:54:39] <dclarke> I mean .. like .. wow
[02:54:39] <cchapman> i inherited  a mess like that
[02:55:12] <cchapman> good thing we are moving and starting with a fresh network
[02:55:18] <benley> that was a google network mess from some years ago, btw
[02:55:22] <cchapman> getting rid of all old quipment
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[03:04:04] <dclarke> is Tpenta around still ?
[03:04:25] <dclarke> does anyone *really* know what a compiler message like this means ? "ld: fatal: relocations remain against allocatable but non-writable sections"
[03:04:44] <dclarke> SunSolve is not very helpful in this regard
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[03:07:22] <MindDrive> Yes, but now I'm trying to remember what the problem was... (I've seen that when building Python modules on Solaris).
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[03:09:30] <MindDrive> http://docsun.cites.uiuc.edu/sun_docs/C/solaris_9/SUNWdev/LLM/p24.html
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[03:10:25] <dclarke> yes .. with Studio 11 there i an option that replace -KPIC and its -xcode=32
[03:10:29] <dclarke> or something like that
[03:10:36] <dclarke> let me check the manual
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[03:11:39] <dclarke> etc etc ...
[03:11:41] <dclarke> right
[03:11:52] <dclarke> this is blowing up nasily with a lib
[03:11:55] <dclarke> one moment please
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[03:12:07] * dclarke crosses fingers and prays a bit
[03:12:19] <nachox> evening guys
[03:13:14] * dclarke nods .. and continues to whisper prayers to the compiler gods
[03:15:56] <Kimloc> maybe you should consider sacrificing a goat or something like that *shrug*
[03:16:08] * dclarke looks at his dog
[03:16:17] <nachox> what are you compiling? some new gnu crap?
[03:16:28] <dclarke> Samba 3.2.4
[03:18:33] <MindDrive> When I ran against this issue with gcc, the solution I ended up using was replacing '-shared' with '-G -dy' (avoiding the use of '-z text'), which was sufficient in our case.  I'm sure there's a better solution, but so far no one's come up with one.
[03:19:11] <dclarke> MindDrive : yes .. I have tried with GCC 4.3.2 and done okay .. but am really wanting Studio 11
[03:19:29] <dclarke> I ran into this before .. and had to think about how to get out from under this rock
[03:19:44] <dclarke> it feels non-trivial at times .. almost .. magick
[03:20:03] <dclarke> http://www.netcraft.co.il/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/then-a-miracle-occurs-cartoon.png
[03:22:05] <nachox> dclarke, that actually compiles with sun studio?
[03:22:17] <dclarke> Samba ? yeah sure
[03:22:26] <dclarke> it ain't easy .. but yes
[03:22:52] <dclarke> it actually feels like hit or miss at times and then .. after I get the package made .. it runs great with Vista and XP clients
[03:24:04] <nachox> so, no, having to work for it to compile with sun studio means it doesnt compile with it :)
[03:26:15] <dclarke> okay
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[03:32:33] <coffman> hm
[03:33:02] <coffman> my firefox does core dump quiete often :(
[03:34:01] <coffman> http://pastebin.ca/1214263 maybe some one can make out something from that?
[03:34:38] <dclarke> sigsegv huh
[03:34:48] <dclarke> perhaps a traceback vis mdb would help
[03:35:58] <nachox> firefox is regulating it's memory consumption by coredumping, its not a bug, its a feature
[03:36:17] <McBofh> coffman: upgrade your flash plugin to the 10.x beta
[03:36:43] <McBofh> coffman: you can also have a look at the crash details in the    about:crashes   tab
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[03:38:03] <IvanR_> coffman: pstack core should show the thread & stack trace where it's happening
[03:40:54] <houst0n-> Anyone ever see dtlogin restart x upon entering just a username on solaris 9?
[03:41:12] <houst0n-> I disabled x long ago on this machine so probably missing a service or something
[03:41:19] <houst0n-> I need it however to test something...
[03:41:41] <dclarke> take a look in /etc/rc3.d and /etc/rc2.d for something with a small s in front
[03:41:56] <dclarke> maybe you have .. who-knows-what missing
[03:42:05] <dclarke> not very helpful .. sorry
[03:42:12] <houst0n-> I've already had a dig through there
[03:42:17] <houst0n-> Can't spot anything too obvious
[03:42:27] * houst0n- misses smf
[03:42:44] <dclarke> yeah .. funny how we grow attached to things like that
[03:43:01] <dclarke> and I guess ps -ef has nothing obvious jumping out
[03:43:31] <houst0n-> Well, I assume whatever is missing is cde related
[03:43:50] <houst0n-> Usually I disable all that stuff during first boot, so i'm not sure what's missing
[03:43:53] <houst0n-> ;)
[03:44:06] <dclarke> I do the same
[03:44:14] <dclarke> I end up with maybe 15 processes running
[03:44:20] <dclarke> and a serial console
[03:44:25] <dclarke> you know the deal ..
[03:44:28] <houst0n-> 15? That's better than I usually get
[03:44:33] <houst0n-> I usually have nfs etc though
[03:44:38] <houst0n-> so ~20
[03:45:42] <houst0n-> Oh, it gets worse
[03:45:44] <houst0n-> (chown:/etc/rc2.d) houst0n > file core
[03:45:45] <houst0n-> core:           ELF 32-bit MSB core file SPARC Version 1, from 'dtlogin'
[03:45:48] <dclarke> with dtlogin and nfs and ntpd and all that crap .. I have ps -ef | wc -l == 40
[03:45:50] <houst0n-> :(
[03:46:05] <dclarke> eww
[03:46:10] <dclarke> dtlogin dumped core
[03:46:10] <houst0n-> Not good
[03:46:16] <dclarke> that .. isn't right
[03:46:20] * houst0n- nods
[03:46:29] * dclarke has a firm grasp of the bloody obvious
[03:47:10] <houst0n-> Gah I've only used gdb for too long - what's the dbx command to get a backtrace?
[03:47:34] <houst0n-> nevermind, pkg-get -i gdb
[03:47:35] <houst0n-> ;)
[03:48:12] <dclarke> I thouhgt it was just where
[03:48:36] <houst0n-> interesting...
[03:48:38] <houst0n-> "/usr/dt/bin/dtlogin" is not a core dump: File format not recognized
[03:48:40] <houst0n-> er
[03:48:40] <houst0n-> durr
[03:48:43] * houst0n- is getting tired
[03:48:45] <houst0n-> 2:50am
[03:48:46] <houst0n-> ;)
[03:49:07] <dclarke> what
[03:49:10] <dclarke> no no
[03:49:15] <houst0n-> Program terminated with signal 11, Segmentation fault.
[03:49:15] <houst0n-> #0  0xfef474c4 in realfree () from /usr/lib/libc.so.1
[03:49:15] <dclarke> you have a core file ?
[03:49:17] <houst0n-> Useful
[03:49:23] <houst0n-> yeah I know i gave the args in wrong order
[03:49:27] <dclarke> okay
[03:49:32] <dclarke> yeah .. call it a night
[03:49:37] <houst0n-> ;)
[03:49:39] <dclarke> this can only get worse tonight
[03:49:46] <dclarke> if you know what I mean
[03:49:50] <dclarke> :-)
[03:50:20] <houst0n-> transmission-1.34,REV=2008.09.30-SunOS5.8-sparc-CSW.pkg.gz
[03:50:27] <houst0n-> I need to try it out here before I'll move it into /testing though
[03:50:29] <nachox> houst0n-, http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/doc/dbx.html#label7
[03:50:31] <houst0n-> Was simple in the end, duh
[03:50:33] <dclarke> cool
[03:50:40] <dclarke> no no .. dump it in testing
[03:50:46] <dclarke> I can give it a whirl
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[03:51:05] <houst0n-> Bah ok fair enough, i may have missed something totally stupid though so don't think badly of me if it goes wrong!
[03:51:08] <dclarke> if I can get to it
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[03:51:26] <dclarke> ha .. no worries .. I have done builds over and over and over until I get it right
[03:51:29] <dclarke> and then .. do it again
[03:51:33] <dclarke> you know what I mean
[03:51:35] <houst0n-> Done
[03:51:43] <houst0n-> Give me an email if anything goes wrong, I'm off to sleep =)
[03:51:43] <houst0n-> night
[03:51:53] <dclarke> ttyl and thanks for cool stuff
[03:52:01] <houst0n-> np, thanks for the help!
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[03:52:17] <dclarke> community ... it means working together ya know ..
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[03:54:07] <nachox> dclarke, you dont happen to know where i can find examples of scsa exams right?
[03:54:22] <dclarke> examples ... no not really
[03:54:27] <dclarke> I have a full set of CBTs
[03:54:34] <dclarke> cost me an arm and a leg
[03:55:00] <dclarke> in fact . .the whole CBT set was $3500 or so
[03:55:42] <nachox> CBT?
[03:56:50] <dclarke> computer based training packages
[03:57:02] <dclarke> full blown everythign from intro to advanced admin etc
[03:57:03] <houst0n-> Nipped back to disable something, nachox well, I probably shouldn't say this but well you can find all these things on any torrent site :/
[03:57:35] <houst0n-> Not that we'd ever do such a thing...
[03:57:40] <dclarke> well that makes me a moron .. but I do have the real Sun parts here
[03:57:49] <houst0n-> If you do fine one, try download it with the testing transmission pkgs ;)
[03:58:20] <dclarke> ha
[03:58:26] <dclarke> yeah .. I'll try that
[03:58:52] <nachox> dclarke, not at all, i enjoy buying books, and i buy them whenever possible... although i regret having bought stroustrup's c++ one :)
[04:00:22] <houst0n-> nachox: Accelerated C++ <-- only c++ book you'll ever need
[04:00:29] <houst0n-> it's well worth every penny
[04:00:36] <houst0n-> Anyway, really off to sleep
[04:00:37] <houst0n-> 'nite!
[04:01:00] <nachox> hell no, the world does not need c++, it was a bad idea to begin with
[04:01:26] <e^ipi> spoken like someone who doesn't understand the language
[04:02:37] <nachox> i've used it, and i dont like it, not understanding the language is certainly a posibility of couse
[04:02:38] <jbk> evening
[04:02:56] <e^ipi> yes... use != understand
[04:03:12] <e^ipi> C++ is complicated
[04:03:16] <e^ipi> that is a downside
[04:03:23] <e^ipi> OTOH, it lets you do a lot of stuff
[04:04:07] <nachox> my problem with it is that it's full of corner cases, i will not argue that it is a powerful tool though
[04:06:48] <e^ipi> i dunno, i think it was idiotic of universities to move away from it
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[04:07:15] <e^ipi> they moved away from it because it's complex, to which I'd argue that that's precisely why they /should/ use it
[04:07:44] <e^ipi> after C++ any other language with any weirdness in it should still come like butter
[04:08:14] <e^ipi> and more to the point, with C++, you can pick up other stuff easily, but without it, you can't pick up C++ very easily
[04:08:17] <nachox> we're still tought C++ in argentina, but it's being displaced by java
[04:08:18] <jbk> well i think what happens is when you're trying to teach algorithms and analysis, the complexity of c++ tends to get in the way
[04:08:20] <e^ipi> and there's a lot of C++ out there
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[04:08:37] <e^ipi> jbk: wasn't a problem for any of the kids @ my schol
[04:08:39] <e^ipi> *school
[04:08:52] <nachox> i've heard some teachers talking about python in the future
[04:09:02] <jbk> though it doesn't help that half the professors don't know c++
[04:09:08] <e^ipi> nachox: then I fear for their employers ...
[04:09:27] <jbk> you'd think if you got your phd in computer science, and have to teach c++, you could do a little research
[04:09:47] <jbk> instead of talking about if you played 9 or 18 holes on the golf course today
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[04:09:55] <jbk> not that i dealt with that or anything :)
[04:10:17] <jbk> or the resulting head-scratching header files...
[04:10:52] <nachox> e^ipi, why? it's not the only language we see, other clases still tech java, early classes make you implement things like b+trees in C or improve some particular function of a program in MIPS assembly, you get to learn even shell scripting and php in some other subjects
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[04:11:06] <jbk> anyway.. now to see if this works..
[04:11:08] <jbk> bbl
[04:12:20] <e^ipi> nachox: no, my point is that if you know C++, it's simple to pick up java
[04:12:35] <e^ipi> if you know java, it's quite hard to really learn the ins and outs of C++
[04:13:10] <e^ipi> funsies, my zpool locked up
[04:13:47] <e^ipi> ls -- hang. zfs list -- hang
[04:14:15] <_mary_kate_> e^ipi: that happened to me yesterday.  i tried to zfs destroy while a recv was running
[04:14:33] <e^ipi> alright, i'm going to force a kernel dump
[04:15:14] <e^ipi> _mary_kate_: what build you on?
[04:15:22] <_mary_kate_> S10U5
[04:15:47] <coffman> back
[04:15:48] <dclarke> that is scary as hell
[04:15:57] <dclarke> not you coffman
[04:15:58] <coffman> trace: http://pastebin.ca/1214286
[04:16:04] <coffman> dclarke: heh
[04:16:34] <nachox> _mary_kate_, production ready... ;)
[04:16:57] <dclarke> _mary_kate_: recent patches ?
[04:17:18] <_mary_kate_> dclarke: all patches up to last friday
[04:17:38] <dclarke> that *is* scary as hell
[04:17:41] <coffman> btw i heard some realy nasty things about a zfs bug that could not be recovered...
[04:18:02] <dclarke> I recently downgraded to S10u5 from snv_70b just to go back to a more production grade rev of ZFS
[04:19:09] <nachox> dclarke, did what we suggested the other day actually work?
[04:19:11] <dclarke> meanwhile .. Sun keeps releaseing kernel patches for Solaris 8 x86 .. geez .. is anybody running it ?
[04:19:21] <dclarke> nachox : like a charm
[04:19:46] <dclarke> nachox : if I recall .. it was to drop half of the mirrors .. boot CDROM and creat a new zpool from CDROM
[04:19:55] <nachox> nod
[04:19:59] <dclarke> nachox : anyways .. all up .. fully mirrored
[04:20:07] <dclarke> and fully pathed
[04:20:12] <dclarke> and fully patched
[04:20:22] <dclarke> even if that is .. scary
[04:20:57] * nachox patiently waits for s10u6
[04:21:30] <_mary_kate_> i think U6 will be the nicest update for a while
[04:21:36] <dclarke> my idea is that a decent version of Solaris .. is *any* version with the recent patches
[04:22:02] <_mary_kate_> dclarke: at least until you find the current kernel patch breaks LUNs >2TB with your scsi card..
[04:22:12] <dclarke> oh
[04:22:17] <e^ipi> _mary_kate_: what were you doing at the time ( NFS? compiling? )
[04:22:23] <_mary_kate_> e^ipi: nothing
[04:22:25] <dclarke> well ... what CSI card is that ?
[04:22:30] <dclarke> well ... what SCSI card is that ?
[04:22:34] * dclarke has fibre
[04:22:35] <_mary_kate_> e^ipi: it was an idle system with a script that runs every minute and 'zfs recv's from elsewhere
[04:22:38] <_mary_kate_> dclarke: mpt
[04:22:41] <nachox> _mary_kate_, if only because of zfs boot, yes
[04:22:43] <_mary_kate_> dclarke: this was a while ago - it's fixed now ;)
[04:22:52] <e^ipi> hmm
[04:22:53] <dclarke> oh .. the ol' mpt RAID cards
[04:23:02] <e^ipi> because i wasn't doing any zfs ops at the time
[04:23:08] <e^ipi> other than reading
[04:23:23] <e^ipi> ( ie, no "zfs XXXX" )
[04:23:45] <e^ipi> whenever boot_archive gets around to being updated, and the kernel cores, we'll see what I can do with this
[04:23:48] <_mary_kate_> i'm not certain zfs recv was actually running, i just assumed it was... because zfs destroy hanging on an idle system seems even more wrong
[04:24:04] <coffman> ip instances will be in 10u6 right? but no vnics?
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[04:30:56] * nachox looks forward to seeing how the fmac people couples their framework with solaris' RBAC
[04:32:14] <e^ipi> evidently reboot -d doesn't mean "zomg go down RIGHT NOW!!!" it means piss around doing other shit for a while, and at your leisure go down
[04:32:27] <nachox> haha
[04:32:59] <coffman> heh
[04:33:13] <coffman> ill use init 5/6 exclusiv
[04:34:40] <dclarke> e^ipi : try uadmin 2 0
[04:34:53] <dclarke> e^ipi : but be careful .. it can be harsh
[04:35:15] <coffman> heh 5 0 is crash dump the system right?
[04:35:30] <nachox> dclarke, doesnt it... not stop services?
[04:36:18] <dclarke> I'll have to go look at the sources but it is really harsh .. like just HALT the CPU's sort of thing .. shutdown nothing .. just stop .. now
[04:36:34] <dclarke> HCF
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[04:40:52] <_mary_kate_> e^ipi: this is the destroy: http://rafb.net/p/SK4XVf43.html
[04:40:58] <_mary_kate_> e^ipi: can't seem to get a stack for the other two
[04:41:03] <_mary_kate_> s/destroy/receive/
[04:41:07] <e^ipi> hmm, well, this might do it:  One or more devices could not be opened.  Sufficient replicas exist for the pool to continue functioning in a degraded state.
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[04:42:18] <nachox> except it didnt work in a degraded state, it froze, right?
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[04:42:37] <e^ipi> right
[04:44:05] <_mary_kate_> e^ipi: these are the other two: http://rafb.net/p/xDzFBN87.html
[04:44:09] <_mary_kate_> seems unrelated to your issue though
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[04:45:34] <_mary_kate_> pah, SCAT doesn't support 'dis' on x86
[04:46:16] <coffman> nachox: reboot -d would be "force a crash dump before rebooting"
[04:46:17] <jbk> well that didn't work
[04:46:43] <nachox> coffman, i asked about the uadmin 2 0 command
[04:46:51] <_mary_kate_> i guess i'll mail zfs-discuss - or will they whine at me for reporting a serious bug in S10 instead of nevada?
[04:47:11] <coffman> nachox: uadmin 2 0 is sync filesystem and drop to ok
[04:47:20] <dclarke> _mary_kate_: I have never let that stop me
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[04:49:09] <nachox> coffman, so i was basically right :)
[04:49:17] <_mary_kate_> hmm.. i wonder if it was really deadlocked, or just taking a really, really long time to recv
[04:49:18] <coffman> yeah
[04:49:28] <coffman> only uadmin 1 0 is harder o0
[04:49:33] <_mary_kate_> (i've noticed recv is incredibly slow for some reason)
[04:50:06] <nachox> maybe it's because of ssh? if that is what you're using as a transport that is
[04:50:32] <_mary_kate_> no, it does 50MB/sec of disk writes for 20+ seconds while recving.. for just a couple hundred MB of changes
[04:50:43] <_mary_kate_> sorry, reads, not writes
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[04:50:47] <_mary_kate_> (writes i would understand)
[04:53:16] <nachox> i got lost somewhere in the middle of that sentence :)
[04:53:43] <_mary_kate_> nachox: i recv a stream with a couple 100 MB of changes.  it reads the disks at 50MB/sec for 20 seconds or more, then finally writes the changes
[04:53:56] <_mary_kate_> it's annoying because 95% of the time is spent reading, instead of writing
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[05:11:26] <_mary_kate_> well, i posted: http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/2008-September/051312.html
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[05:19:47] <nachox> i'm off to sleep, night guys
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[05:33:43] <coffman> man
[05:33:57] <coffman> pkg search is useless :(
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[05:42:51] <sstallion> evening all
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[05:44:11] <e^ipi> yo
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[05:46:11] <sstallion> e^ipi: how goes it ?
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[05:46:23] <e^ipi> eh, s'alright
[05:46:34] <e^ipi> fumbling my way through kmdb trying to find a deadlock in zfs
[05:46:41] <e^ipi> though it may not matter anyways
[05:47:02] <sstallion> oh ?
[05:47:20] <e^ipi> bonwick did a huge putback in zfs
[05:47:21] <sstallion> deadlock may be tough to grab in mdb if its due to a race condition
[05:47:30] <sstallion> oh ?
[05:47:32] <sstallion> what was added ?
[05:48:37] <e^ipi> couple thousand lines of code
[05:49:00] <sstallion> (features)
[05:50:06] <e^ipi> 6754011 SPA 3.0: lock breakup, i/o pipeline refactoring, device failure handling
[05:50:15] <e^ipi> 6430480 grabbing config lock as writer during I/O load can take excessively long
[05:50:27] <e^ipi> sounds like a fix for exactly this
[05:50:59] <sstallion> easy to replicarte ?
[05:51:03] <sstallion> replicate even
[05:51:26] <e^ipi> nope
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[05:51:48] <sstallion> well... you could always try a bfu
[05:53:02] <e^ipi> this is the first I've run in to it
[05:53:27] <e^ipi> i'm just going to wait until sxce100 is up and just use that
[05:53:54] * e^ipi wonders who does code review for bonwick, anyways
[05:54:41] <sstallion> I wonder if the ff3 fixes made it into snv_100
[05:55:00] <sstallion> my snv_98 build at work drives me up the f'n wall
[05:57:09] <e^ipi> ?
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[06:59:02] <jbk> hmm firefox 3.0 seems more choppy than 2.0
[07:02:05] <e^ipi> yeah, it's got issues
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[07:03:34] <jbk> hopefully that will be addressed
[07:03:41] <jbk> i finally managed to get my dvd drive working
[07:03:45] <jbk> so now i'm on b98
[07:03:49] <jbk> w/ zfs root
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[07:20:14] <sstallion> jbk: same here
[07:20:27] <sstallion> upgraded the machine at work... I havent updated my machines at home yet
[07:21:38] <sstallion> e^ipi: could you do me a favori ?
[07:21:58] <e^ipi> possibly
[07:22:29] <dclarke> whoa ...in a fresh install of OpenSolaris .. piles of headers are missing ?
[07:22:34] <dclarke>  /usr/include/libcpc.h:32:23: error: sys/types.h: No such file or directory
[07:22:42] <dclarke> I mean .. where are the headers ?
[07:22:58] <sstallion> dclarke: you need SUNWhea
[07:22:59] <McBofh> dclarke: binary distro? install the ss-dev/gcc-dev packages as well as the other ones relating to SUNWhea
[07:23:32] <sstallion> e^ipi: update your clone of emancipation/drivers; run bldenv, and then change to drivers/re/$MACH and issue a dmake install
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[07:23:37] <dclarke> dear Lord .. who was thinking of a community based OS without gcc/cc or headers ...
[07:23:39] <sstallion> it should just 'work'
[07:23:59] <dclarke> probably wouldn't fit on the CDROM image .. but now we have a DVD image .. so .. no excuse anymore
[07:23:59] <_mary_kate_> dclarke: uh, the entire point of indiana is that it doesn't install every single thing by default
[07:23:59] <sstallion> dclarke: doesnt bother me ;) (at least the no-gcc part)
[07:24:11] <_mary_kate_> dclarke: if it did that, it would just be identical to SXCE
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[07:24:17] <_mary_kate_> dclarke: you use the 'pkg' command to install what you need
[07:24:23] <dclarke> _mary_kate_: I don't want *every* single thing .. just basic developer stuff
[07:24:30] <_mary_kate_> sure, *you* need developer stuff
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[07:24:35] <_mary_kate_> other people want different stuff
[07:24:37] <e^ipi> dclarke: oh give it up, just install the gcc-dev or ss-dev packages
[07:24:39] <dclarke> well .. yeah .. I do
[07:24:41] <dclarke> okay
[07:24:47] <_mary_kate_> dclarke: so install it with 'pkg', it's a single command
[07:24:52] * dclarke feels the smck .. runs away
[07:24:56] <e^ipi> christ, ubuntu doesn't ship with gcc on the CD either
[07:25:06] <dclarke> well it should
[07:25:09] <e^ipi> "zomg not community!"
[07:25:14] <e^ipi> why? it's in the package repo
[07:25:25] <e^ipi> if you need it, you grab it
[07:25:29] <e^ipi> if you don't, you don't
[07:25:31] <dclarke> _mary_kate_: I have a passing familiarity with pkg ..
[07:25:47] <_mary_kate_> dclarke: but you don't understand why indiana doesn't install the entire distribution by default?
[07:26:14] <dclarke> e^ipi : stop being sooo defensive .. geez .. I just wanted the ability to compile something .. it isn't a stoning offence
[07:26:24] <dclarke> I DONT WANT THE ENTIRE DISTRO !! DAMMIT
[07:26:29] <dclarke> just a compiler
[07:26:35] <dclarke> what is wrong with you people ...
[07:26:40] * dclarke sheesh
[07:26:54] <_mary_kate_> dclarke: you're missing the point: *you* want a compiler, other people want other things.  if it installed everything anyone could want by default, it would have to install the entire distribution
[07:27:03] <_mary_kate_> dclarke: installing the entire distribution is exactly what pkg was created to avoid
[07:27:28] <dclarke> _mary_kate_: then give up on the idea and go back to a 60MB CDROM bootable image and quit the baloney ..
[07:27:37] <_mary_kate_> huh?
[07:27:38] <dclarke> no open office ..
[07:27:41] <dclarke> no browser
[07:27:44] <dclarke> no nothing
[07:27:50] <dclarke> if you want it grab it right ?
[07:27:59] <e^ipi> dclarke: that's idiotic
[07:27:59] <dclarke> so .. stick to that philosophy
[07:28:16] <dclarke> right .. in my view no gcc and no headers is idiotic ..
[07:28:20] <_mary_kate_> sure, that works pretty well in ubuntu.  they have a 'server' install CD that doesn't install openoffice/firefox/gnome/whatever
[07:28:27] <McBofh> dclarke: not everybody is a developer.
[07:28:32] <dclarke> and debian has been shipping small net boot installation CDROMs for years
[07:28:36] <e^ipi> more to the point, not everyone is a C developer
[07:28:46] <dclarke> fine fine .. okay
[07:28:48] <e^ipi> python doesn't require gcc, neither does ruby
[07:28:50] <e^ipi> or java
[07:28:51] * dclarke outnumbered
[07:28:58] <_mary_kate_> dclarke: so your point is... debian does it, therefore it must be bad?
[07:29:06] <dclarke> all I wanted was to build mpfr .. but I get lynched
[07:29:06] <e^ipi> outnumbered by common sense?
[07:29:17] <_mary_kate_> dclarke: all you have to do to build it is type a single command to install gcc
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[07:29:27] <_mary_kate_> dclarke: if you want an OS that installs everything by default, Indiana is clearly not what you want.  use SXCE
[07:29:40] <_mary_kate_> the *entire point* of indiana is that it doesn't do that.  that's *why it exists*
[07:29:42] <McBofh> dclarke: you come along with a set of expectations which do not match reality, people here try to get to see that reality, and you complain.
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[07:30:35] <sstallion> ... that was uneccessary
[07:30:46] <e^ipi> and entirely retarded
[07:31:01] <sstallion> e^ipi: I meant the channel's responses :)
[07:31:26] <_mary_kate_> well his entire point was 'it doesn't do exactly what *i* want by default, therefore it sucks'.  how do you argue with that?
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[07:32:07] <sstallion> he was just complaining that he didnt have a compiler... big deal.
[07:32:14] <sstallion> indiana pisses me off too ;)
[07:32:59] <e^ipi> i'm not a fan either, but i can pick less ridiculous reasons than "it doesn't come with the specific set of software that /I/ need, to the exclusion of all others"
[07:33:06] <_mary_kate_> i'm not particularly fond of it, but i don't complain that it does exactly what it's meant to do... i use a tool that does what i want instead
[07:33:46] <sstallion> *shrug* complaints are just complaints, just let it go
[07:34:04] <sstallion> indiana exists because people complain about some of solaris mainstays
[07:34:19] <sstallion> its interesting how much of what we do revolve around reactions to the complaints of others ;)
[07:34:26] <sstallion> s/revolve/revolves/
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[07:36:04] <sstallion> e^ipi: either way, the new Makefiles in emancipation are a work of art ;)
[07:36:32] <sstallion> just made one last push this evening
[07:37:10] <e^ipi> nice
[07:39:56] <sstallion> and with that, I'm passing out. nite all!
[07:39:59] * sstallion &
[07:40:05] <e^ipi> nighto
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[07:42:19] <hohum> have I raved about how much ZFS rocks lately?  If not I must be slacking
[07:42:23] <hohum> ZFS is awesome
[07:43:22] <e^ipi> yeah, it's pretty sweet but I still wish i could replicate that bug i found
[07:43:40] <e^ipi> or at the very least turn core files in to useful information
[07:43:45] <e^ipi> s/core/dump
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[07:48:26] <digifor> Is it possible to install 2008.11 from the command prompt?
[07:48:36] <e^ipi> not yet, no
[07:49:02] <e^ipi> use SXCE for that
[07:49:07] <digifor> thanks e^ipi
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[08:13:19] <theRealBall> anyone programs in IDL on solaris/opensolaris?
[08:13:25] <theRealBall> what IDE does it?
[08:14:06] <e^ipi> what?
[08:14:17] <theRealBall> idl similar to fortran
[08:14:24] <theRealBall> vector programming
[08:14:51] <theRealBall> hi e^ipi
[08:15:06] <e^ipi> have you got Wernicke?s aphasia ?
[08:15:16] <e^ipi> you might want to see a skilled neurologist about that
[08:15:22] <theRealBall> what?
[08:16:08] <e^ipi> Wernicke?s aphasia, fluent aphasia, or sensory aphasia in clinical neuropsychology and cognitive neuropsychology, is a type of aphasia often (but not always) caused by neurological damage to Wernicke?s area in the brain
[08:16:31] <e^ipi> If Wernicke?s area is damaged in the non-dominant hemisphere, the syndrome resulting will be sensory dysprosody - the lack of ability to perceive the pitch, rhythm, and emotional tone of speech.
[08:16:35] <e^ipi> Speech is preserved, but language content is incorrect. This may vary from the insertion of a few incorrect or nonexistent words to a profuse outpouring of jargon. Grammar, syntax, rate, intonation and stress are normal. Substitutions of one word for another (paraphasias, e.g. ?telephone? for ?television?) are common.
[08:16:59] <e^ipi> ( in other words, you are stringing words together, but they do not form coherent thoughts )
[08:17:14] <theRealBall> i'll rephrase
[08:17:35] <theRealBall> have you heard of a computer programming language called IDL ?
[08:17:47] <theRealBall> and does anyone here have used or even heard of it?
[08:17:54] <theRealBall> simple
[08:18:00] <theRealBall> nothing aphasia about that
[08:18:32] <e^ipi> and what about an IDE?
[08:18:39] <e^ipi> vi -  the only IDE you'll ever need
[08:19:06] <theRealBall> yea ok
[08:19:16] <theRealBall> what about sun studio?
[08:20:41] <e^ipi> what about it?
[08:21:37] <_mary_kate_> IDL usually stands for 'interface definition language', so you might want to clarify what you mean
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[08:23:22] <theRealBall> mary kate thanks
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[09:20:01] <digifor> does pkg set-authority -O http://pkg.opensolaris.org:80/ / opensolaris.org look correct?
[09:20:30] <digifor> I am using milax on an eeepc and want to get more packages.
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[09:34:41] <corpwicle> os doesnt come with a ftpd ?
[09:35:05] <e^ipi> it's probably in the repo somewhere
[09:35:12] <e^ipi> you could also just use sftp
[09:35:35] <e^ipi> to avoid broadcasting passwords in plaintext across an untrusted network
[09:36:06] <corpwicle> in this case i need to use ftp
[09:36:07] <corpwicle> its for testing
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[09:37:05] <e^ipi> *shrug* I've got it on my SXCE install
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[09:37:57] <corpwicle> actually, it seems SUNWftp is installed
[09:38:10] <corpwicle> which is according to the description a FTP server
[09:39:01] <e^ipi> well, there you go then
[09:39:11] <e^ipi> jeez...
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[09:42:35] <lucianno> hi!
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[09:45:35] <corpwicle> e^ipi: i need to learn svcs and svcadm
[09:45:47] <corpwicle> some day ill be a proper solaris admin!
[09:45:47] <corpwicle> ^_^
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[09:50:04] <e^ipi> yeah, well... it's well documented so it's not that hard
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[09:51:42] <corpwicle> if solaris admining was 100% of my job, i would be right on that =
[09:51:43] <corpwicle> =)
[09:53:08] <lucianno> corpwicle: I want refresh solaris 76 with 98?
[09:53:29] <corpwicle> say what ?
[09:54:45] <lucianno> I can update the solaris 76 using 98?
[09:56:05] <corpwicle> what is he asking, and why is he asking me ?
[09:56:20] <freetown> he is asking whether you can upgrade from snv_76 to snv_98
[09:56:27] <freetown> why he is asking you...no idea :D
[09:57:46] <e^ipi> lucianno: yes.
[09:57:48] <e^ipi> http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/806-7933
[09:57:57] <e^ipi> the docs... they are lovely
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[09:58:20] <freetown> aw...give me the BFU one :D
[09:58:24] <lucianno> thx much
[10:00:58] <e^ipi> freetown: bfu is a developer tool
[10:01:07] <e^ipi> freetown: if you aren't hacking on ON, you don't need it
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[10:07:22] <lucianno> why the solaris get 1gb for swap....It will to use?
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[10:13:55] <freetown> lucianno: I usually configure 2G worth of swap even if I intend to tune the box to not ever touch swap.
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[10:22:27] <e^ipi> you really should have at least the installed amount of memory available as swap
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[10:39:07] <cliuser> hello, i'm trying to compile xchat from src on my opensolaris box, and it tells me GLIB isn't there when i have installed it : GLIB - Version >= 2.0.3... no
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[10:47:26] <cliuser> repeat te link plz
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[11:00:30] <cliuser> i recieve this error: checking for pkg-config ... no  but i just compiled pkg-config
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[11:53:22] <codestr0m1> sartek: thanks for your documented work on mplayer + sun cc.. I'll be digging for those patches now. and should have looked online before starting duplicate work
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[12:06:40] <digifor> Is there a list of working IPS repositories?
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[12:08:17] <codestr0m1> digifor: list no, but blastwave  and sunfreeware.com                     http://pkg.sunfreeware.com:9000/ work reasonably well for me
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[12:10:24] <sartek> codestr0m1: sorry?
[12:10:45] <codestr0m1> sartek: in june http://lists.mplayerhq.hu/pipermail/mplayer-users/2008-June/073282.html
[12:10:51] <codestr0m1> I'm going to test those patches today
[12:10:58] <codestr0m1> I'm repacking mplayer w/o gcc
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[12:11:44] <sartek> ah ok.. i hope you get somewhere
[12:12:21] <codestr0m1> did you ever get it to fully compile or?
[12:13:40] <codestr0m1> I'm guessing not since the 3rd attachment is a failure and not a patch :P
[12:13:44] <codestr0m1> gosh I was too hopeful
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[12:14:14] <codestr0m1> and you were trying with SS12 if I had to guess.. it's pretty strict
[12:14:36] <sartek> codestr0m1: mplayer build system sucks.. e.g if "gcc" fails it continues to compile in some cases
[12:15:06] <codestr0m1> that's ugly
[12:15:51] <sartek> codestr0m1: there's some kind of support for intel compiler.. we should but suncc support based on that
[12:16:05] <sartek> i mean in ./configure
[12:16:31] <codestr0m1> well. I'm working on this today if you have any feedback
[12:16:40] <codestr0m1> and I'm nearly 99.9% set on not using gcc
[12:17:00] <codestr0m1> I'll dig through 100 errors, but if it's more than that or I have to bug too many people I'll concede
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[12:27:57] <codestr0m1> sartek: did you send any patches to the mplayer-dev list or anything?
[12:28:06] <sartek> no
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[12:32:42] <codestr0m1> can anyone comment if sun cc has full c89 support? I'm not sure where to look in the docs
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[12:38:06] <digifor> thanks codestr0m1  I am actually using Milax and following this: http://www.milax.org/?p=23
[12:38:51] <codestr0m1> digifor: and? sorry I don't see the connection
[12:39:05] <digifor> To get the 'offical' repository pkg image-create -F -a opensolaris.org=http://pkg.opensolaris.org / does that look right?
[12:39:52] <digifor> 2008.05 and 11 have it built in.
[12:41:58] <codestr0m1> digifor: umm.. I'm not sure if milax and those repo are compatible
[12:42:11] <codestr0m1> I'd maybe even suggest against it
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[12:44:05] <h3sp4wn> codestr0m1: Why specifically c89 ? (manpage says -xc99=none for c90)
[12:45:02] <codestr0m1> h3sp4wn: I'm asking the devs what problems I may have with mplayer. in 2005 they said it didn't support c89..
[12:45:15] <digifor> this is just on an eeepc. according to milax website: The current version is MilaX Note (0.3.2), based on Nevada b95, released September 10, 2008.
[12:46:11] <h3sp4wn> codestr0m1: Sure they don't mean gnu89 ? (c90 afaik is c89 + a few minor additions + a superset)
[12:46:13] <codestr0m1> digifor: wish I could help you.. may want to ask in #milax if they have a channel
[12:46:15] <TomJ> there's a separate c89 executable
[12:46:18] <TomJ> and a c99
[12:46:32] <TomJ> which I assume implement those standards, but no later
[12:46:47] <codestr0m1> TomJ: I saw the binaries, but wasn't sure if it was complete or..
[12:46:53] <codestr0m1> TomJ: thanks
[12:48:16] <digifor> There is no #milax. This is an OpenSolaris IPS question.
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[12:48:44] <digifor> Perhaps I phrase it wrong.
[12:48:53] <codestr0m1> digifor: IPS is 1) highly experimental 2) just because you can download things doesn't mean it will work and or not just install what you would have gotten by installing os2008.05 anyway
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[12:49:29] <codestr0m1> when you add those authorities. .you're nice small eeepc is going to pull down thousands of files just for something like mplayer if that's what you desire to use it for
[12:50:05] <digifor> On an eeepc 4G you don't want to dump the entire gnome desktop.
[12:50:30] <h3sp4wn> codestr0m1: Sorry its not called c90 (although I have seen it referred to before as that) H & S refers to it as c89 amendment 1
[12:51:15] <codestr0m1> h3sp4wn: thanks. I'll maybe help while I try to see what really pops up with compiling mplayer with sun cc
[12:52:46] <hile_> don't use SUNWspro to build mplayer
[12:52:52] <digifor> What is the correct IPS setup for pkg.opensolaris.org?
[12:54:24] <codestr0m1> digifor: you're going to maybe break stuff opensolaris.org (preferred)         http://pkg.opensolaris.org:80/
[12:55:31] <h3sp4wn> hile_: sunstudio express apparantly supports gcc/icc style assembler
[12:56:13] <codestr0m1> hile_: why not?
[12:56:20] <hile_> the solaris maintainer for mplayer is istting beside me on the  train here, and he says use gcc
[12:56:59] <CosmicDJ> hm what about gccfss? gcc frontend sun studio backend
[12:57:11] <hile_> because they use a lot of gcc  extesnsenions
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[12:58:15] <codestr0m1> hile_: I'm talking to one of the mplayer devs now and he says it should compile with c99 for sure and by this I assume he means that if I make a patch it'll be accepted
[12:58:45] <oxygene> a patch that removes the gccisms? good luck on that
[13:00:37] <hile_> That's a bout as likely as ripping all of the linux-like stupidity out of indiana
[13:00:56] <digifor> thanks that :80 was the missing link. codestr0m1
[13:01:20] <codestr0m1> hile_: can you ask him if I should just ditch this effort and try to bug fix xine-libs or totem/gstreamer?
[13:01:43] <codestr0m1> digifor: you're welcome, but I've only given you the tools for distruction. don't thank me ;)
[13:02:04] <hile_> why not just build mlayer w/gcc?
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[13:02:31] <hile_> and him, having very little SA, is asleep
[13:03:04] <codestr0m1> hile_: because I've nearly completely repackaged all of indiana w/o gcc.. why would I add that as a dep now?
[13:03:39] <codestr0m1> I' trying to solve a problem of playing movies/dvd with subtitles.. if it's totem, gxine, gmplayer. or foo I don't care
[13:03:39] <h3sp4wn> codestr0m1: liboil ?
[13:04:09] <h3sp4wn> Just make a static mplayer
[13:04:21] <oxygene> for dvd, you could also try ogle
[13:04:26] <codestr0m1> h3sp4wn: ok and yes liboil was a b* as well
[13:04:35] <digifor> codestr0m1, I take it you are using sxce?
[13:04:50] <codestr0m1> digifor: no. I'm using os2008*
[13:04:58] <codestr0m1> digifor: I'm not able to help you more. sorry
[13:08:05] <digifor> thanks anyway. all the other working repos are here:http://blogs.sun.com/partnertech/entry/public_available_opensolaris_repositories
[13:08:30] <digifor> For some reason they don't include the opensolaris.org
[13:10:23] <h3sp4wn> digifor: There is a japanese one that includes just media stuff
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[13:11:00] <h3sp4wn> http://lifewithsolaris.jp/modules/about
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[13:16:21] <digifor> Thanks h3sp4wn
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[13:56:36] <codestr0m1> I've looked in the manual and can't find something comparable to gcc -print-prog-name=as
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[14:04:06] <oxygene> codestr0m1: just "as"
[14:04:42] <codestr0m1> oxygene: yeah, but there's more than one "as" on my system and this configure script is trying to make sure to use the right one.. I'll figure it out based on path
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[14:09:31] <McBofh> codestr0m1: surely your compiler should choose the one it needs
[14:10:23] <McBofh> codestr0m1: I think that you probably want to force use of /usr/bin/as | /usr/ccs/bin/as rather than let it find gas
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[14:38:32] <rutski> I'm installing OpenSolaris today (coming from experience with Linux, OS X, and Windows); I hope you guys wont mind my asking a few minor questions while I try to settle in
[14:39:01] <rutski> on the console login I try to hit CTRL+ALT+DELETE to reboot the system (a habit I have form linux), but it does nothing
[14:42:10] <houst0n-> rutski: That's a bad habit =) use "init 6" instead
[14:43:24] <rutski> at the time I didn't even know how to login though
[14:43:31] <rutski> (I only just found jack/jack or root/opensolaris)
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[14:44:43] <houst0n-> The whole jack/jack thing is such a stupid idea I can't even begin....
[14:44:45] <rutski> I suppose this is what the machine's power button is for :)
[14:44:48] <rutski> heh, yea; agreed
[14:45:00] <houst0n-> I don't know who is responsible for that, or WHY IT HASN'T CHANGED YET.
[14:45:08] <rutski> so now it's booted again and asking me to login in
[14:45:13] <houst0n-> someone should file a bug
[14:45:18] <rutski> is it suggested that I use jack/jack or root/opensolaris to install?
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[14:45:25] <houst0n-> rutski: jack/jack
[14:45:31] <rutski> oh, hey; it went straight to an installer this time
[14:45:36] <houst0n-> rutski: What are you going to be using the machine for?
[14:45:38] <rutski> without requiring a login
[14:45:45] <houst0n-> Err
[14:45:47] <houst0n-> :|
[14:45:53] <rutski> porting my OpenGL apps to yet another UNIX platform
[14:46:02] <rutski> (as a student level project)
[14:46:04] <houst0n-> Ok don't use opensolaris 2008.xx for this
[14:46:10] <rutski> oh?
[14:46:13] <houst0n-> Go to opensolaris.os/os and download sxce
[14:46:28] <houst0n-> It's a much more stable platform for that kind of development
[14:46:58] <houst0n-> Again, my personal preference - many people would probably disagree with me
[14:47:03] <rutski> so what types of problems might I run into on 2008.xx? or what types of benefits might I notice on sxce?
[14:47:36] <rutski> (by the way, regardless of what you say, I'll probably just finish this 2008.xx install; just don't feel like burning another disk)
[14:47:49] <houst0n-> I find that I've killed many "opensolaris" boxes - without any error on my part
[14:47:53] <houst0n-> Just with ipkg
[14:48:00] <houst0n-> It's... not really "ready" yet
[14:48:11] <houst0n-> sxce, i've never killed one
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[14:48:46] <houst0n-> And I'm not really a solaris noob, i've been using it since sol9, i have several sparcs
[14:48:51] <houst0n-> =)
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[14:49:27] <rutski> ah
[14:49:34] <rutski> hmm, I'm on the partition step
[14:49:39] <houst0n-> I've not used it in a while
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[14:49:42] <rutski> there's an "IFS: NTFS" partition, which I want to keep
[14:49:50] <houst0n-> Oh you're going to love zfs =)
[14:50:02] <rutski> a "Linux native" which is 200MB (probably the swap), which I want to delete
[14:50:13] <rutski> but then there's a 21gig "EXT-DOS" partition
[14:50:20] <rutski> and I just have no idea what the heck it is
[14:50:43] <houst0n-> Did it have linux or something on it beforehand?
[14:50:48] <rutski> yep, two of 'em actually
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[14:51:09] <rutski> and then there's an "Unknown" that's 38.8 gigs
[14:51:13] <houst0n-> Well, as long as you're sure of the part number of the one you want to keep, just delete the other two and make a solaris partition?
[14:51:20] <houst0n-> You have your data backed up first yeah?
[14:51:29] <rutski> no, actually I haven't
[14:51:36] <houst0n-> Perhaps do that first?
[14:51:40] <rutski> the only thing I care to keep is the windows partition
[14:51:46] <rutski> which would require quite a stupid mistake to delete
[14:51:48] <rutski> so I'm not worried
[14:51:55] <houst0n-> =)
[14:52:18] <rutski> I'm going to boot linux and use a more familiar disk tool to decide what to do
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[14:52:43] <houst0n-> ick linux
[14:52:59] <rutski> heh, can't say I've heard that one before
[14:53:08] <rutski> I've been on linux every since I discovered UNIX 4 years ago
[14:53:12] <CosmicDJ> rutski: install opensolaris inside virtualbox, no need to delete anything, no need to reboot etc.
[14:53:16] <houst0n-> Honestly? You've never hung out in here or #freebsd eh?
[14:53:23] <houst0n-> :P
[14:53:27] <rutski> CosmicDJ: I've tried testing my apps on virtual box, it doesn't fly
[14:53:41] <McBofh> rutski: I used gparted's livecd to partition my laptop's disk
[14:53:47] <rutski> houst0n-: actually I used OpenBSD for a few months, but linux never came up
[14:53:49] <houst0n-> Linux I Not UniX <-- notice anything?
[14:53:49] <houst0n-> :P
[14:53:51] <McBofh> took a while (resizing 320gb disk), but worked a treat
[14:53:57] <houst0n-> Is, even
[14:54:07] <oxygene> rutski: ext-dos means "all extended partitions"
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[14:55:09] <houst0n-> Coffee time! wheee. brb
[14:55:55] <rutski> oxygene: still not quite sure what that means :(
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[14:57:57] <oxygene> rutski: the partition table format only knows 4 partition. so if you need more, it chains multiple partition tables together. those are the ones with numbers >= 5 on linux
[14:58:03] <rutski> ah, right; that
[14:58:13] <rutski> I think I installed LVM a few months ago and have since forgotten about it
[14:58:15] <oxygene> rutski: solaris doesn't support this chain format, and only provides the "wrapper" partition
[14:58:18] <rutski> that's probably it; checking now with gparted
[14:58:56] <rutski> oxygene: that "chaining" is done by something like LVM?
[14:59:33] <oxygene> no, it's part of the extended msdos partitioning scheme
[15:01:07] <rutski> wait... huh? because I'm looking at that 20 gig "extended" partition now
[15:01:21] <rutski> and it's got two linux partitions under it
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[15:01:35] <oxygene> yes, so?
[15:02:18] <rutski> so then I'm confused about where msdos comes in
[15:04:49] <houst0n-> O_o
[15:05:07] <rutski> houst0n-: heh, yea
[15:06:11] <oxygene> rutski: the partition table format is good old microsoft engineering. not really updated since 1985.
[15:06:21] <rutski> ah, gotcha
[15:06:57] <rutski> so basically you've got a whole bunch of different partition types
[15:07:02] <rutski> and then "extended" for everything else?
[15:09:35] <rutski> I wonder what the IFS in "IFS: NTFS" means
[15:10:38] <McBofh> oxygene: itym "engineering"
[15:10:53] <houst0n-> internal field separators?
[15:11:28] <McBofh> Installable File System, according to sys/dktp/fdisk.h
[15:11:34] <houst0n-> Interesting fs>
[15:11:35] <McBofh> http://src.opensolaris.org/source/xref/onnv/onnv-gate/usr/src/uts/common/sys/dktp/fdisk.h#88
[15:11:41] <houst0n-> Introspective Fat Scot?
[15:11:45] <McBofh> heh
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[15:12:13] <houst0n-> Hmph, learn something everyday
[15:12:22] <houst0n-> anyway, I must go and do things. Laters folks
[15:12:44] <McBofh> ciao
[15:12:59] <rutski> is it somehow messy to change a system's hostname a long time after installation?
[15:13:08] <rutski> for some definition of "long time", say... 2 weeks?
[15:13:12] <houst0n-> .....
[15:13:37] <houst0n-> No
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[15:31:22] <chrisg> hullo hullo
[15:32:48] <rutski> houst0n-: it's taking quite a while; it's on 76% installed now
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[15:32:51] <rutski> I wonder what it's doing exactly
[15:32:59] <rutski> what packages it's copying to the disk
[15:33:05] <rutski> *which
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[15:45:18] <jbk> cool.. virtual terminals in b100 (finally!)
[15:45:32] <rutski> whoo, it finished installing
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[15:45:49] <rutski> rebooting, and praying that vista is still bootbale
[15:46:40] <rutski> and indeed it is :)
[15:46:58] <rutski> time to start playing with opensolaris for the first time
[15:47:09] * rutski is hoping that dtrace is as awesome as everyone says it is
[15:47:16] <jbk> did you install 2008.05 or the latest 2008.11 preview?
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[15:47:24] <rutski> 2008.05
[15:47:49] <rutski> also I wonder if this java app of mine will run better on solaris than on OS X
[15:48:00] <jbk> be sure to follow the instructions very carefully if you update -- there are some rather annoying bugs w/ the packaging system that are fixed in the ugprades
[15:48:24] <rutski> (it's an OpenGL app, so even small quirks in the JVM show up as huge frame-rate stutter)
[15:48:29] <jbk> dtrace is best seen when having a problem.. and a 'normal' system, it's neat but doesn't really give you a good feel for how cool it is
[15:48:33] <rutski> jbk: ah, gotcha
[15:48:52] <rutski> jbk: ah, right; could be
[15:49:20] <rutski> but I'm interested in learning about driver development, so running my OpenGL apps under dtrace as a way to poke at the driver code should be fun
[15:49:52] <rutski> oh, heh; the first line that opensolaris shows when booting starts "SunOS Release 5.11..."
[15:50:06] <ballChalk> Yep
[15:50:16] <rutski> I thought SunOS was long dead?
[15:50:27] <tsoome> ?!
[15:50:29] <ballChalk> SunOS is the kernel
[15:50:39] <ballChalk> Solaris is the software distribution.  But now 'Solaris' refers to both
[15:50:42] <jbk> the SunOS 4.x BSD-derived kernel is dead
[15:50:51] <jbk> when the SysV switch happened
[15:51:07] <ballChalk> went from bsd-derived to bsd-deprived
[15:51:20] <rutski> wah, what the hell?
[15:51:24] <jbk> the still called the new kernel 'SunOS', but then called kernel + userland 'Solaris 2.x' and retroactively called the old SunOS 4.x stuff 'Solaris 1.x' IIRC
[15:51:32] <rutski> I open gnome-terminal, and type "xterm"
[15:51:42] <rutski> and the system basically goes at skippy for like 10 seconds, and only then does it load
[15:51:52] <rutski> the mouse skips around while moving, and it's basically unusable
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[15:52:01] <rutski> what's it doing I wonder?
[15:52:01] <jbk> there's i believe an issue w/ xterm
[15:52:13] <jbk> there's a setting (which I can't remember) you need to disable
[15:52:17] <tsoome> i would say, buy yourself an computer;)
[15:52:20] <ballChalk> i think its the decompression code from the livecd
[15:52:38] <ballChalk> but that doesnt make sense since decompressing isnt that hard
[15:52:40] <rutski> ballChalk: I just booted the system from disk after the install
[15:52:45] <ballChalk> rutski: right
[15:53:07] <tsoome> btw, will the second start of xterm trigger the same effect?
[15:53:08] <timsf> xterm is slow for me too, on an installed nv_98-based OpenSolaris machine
[15:53:15] <timsf> yes
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[15:54:10] <jbk> in one of the mailing lists, it was discussed, there's an .Xresources (?) setting for xterm that is the culprit
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[15:55:02] <timsf> aah (I'd just started digging into seeing what was going on)
[15:55:09] <tsoome> nothing wrong with snv_90 and xterm;)
[15:55:12] <timsf> won't bother now..
[15:55:15] <houst0n-> gnome-terminal is horrible also, as far as I know you CANNOT change the cursor color
[15:55:24] * houst0n- uses the "Terminal" program from the xfce specs
[15:55:38] <houst0n-> Which works fine
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[15:55:46] <timsf> I've never wanted to change the cursor colour.
[15:55:51] <houst0n-> I would use aterm, but it doesn't support "real" transparecy
[15:56:09] <houst0n-> timsf: You've never noticed that it changes color depending on what it's over when using screen/vim?
[15:56:20] <houst0n-> When it's over a comment with my :colo scheme i can't see the cursor!
[15:56:35] <rutski> hmm, what's the preferred way to make the CapsLock key into a Ctrl?
[15:56:37] <timsf> guess I haven't noticed
[15:56:41] <rutski> left-ctrl, in specific
[15:56:47] <houst0n-> It's feckin massive also
[15:56:59] <rutski> on my linux machine's it's usually just in the gnome prefs managers
[15:57:02] <rutski> but I don't see it here on solaris
[15:57:31] <houst0n-> rutski: www.google.com
[15:57:36] <houst0n-> Please don't ask us _EVERYTHING_
[15:57:37] <rutski> good point
[15:57:48] <timsf> http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/1214734 swaps caps lock and control.
[15:57:48] <rutski> heh, yea; I sort of got install a cycle of doing that
[15:57:49] <rutski> time to break out
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[15:58:15] <rutski> timsf: ah, so I have to resort that method; gotcha
[15:58:23] <timsf> no idea - works for me.
[15:58:30] <houst0n-> echo made the key to the left of F1 work as Escape <-- eek
[15:58:33] <houst0n-> How do you do `'s?
[15:58:38] <houst0n-> er
[15:58:43] <houst0n-> Wait i wasn't paying attention
[15:58:47] <houst0n-> F1, not 1...
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[16:31:15] <rutski> houst0n-: so now I'm annoyed network config feels different :)
[16:31:42] <rutski> and that it didn't get at least a dhcp type config running on the system's only network card by default
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[16:43:51] <rutski> ah, ifconfig -a isn't showing anything more than lo0
[16:43:58] <rutski> so I have to figure out how to install the drivers :(
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[16:44:51] <TomJ> rutski: have you plumbed the interface?
[16:45:05] <TomJ> you can do dladm show-link to show all interfaces
[16:45:22] <TomJ> then you would have to do e.g.  ifconfig e1000g0 plumb  before it would appear in ifconfig
[16:46:55] <rutski> TomJ: "dladm show-link" produces no output
[16:47:04] <rutski> reading the man page shows nothing about an "all" option that I can see
[16:47:14] <TomJ> ok it's probably the driver thing then
[16:47:23] <TomJ> just bear in mind that even with the right drivers, the interface may not appear in ifconfig until plumbed
[16:47:32] <rutski> ah, gotcha
[16:47:39] <rutski> but now what the heck do I do to install the dirvers?
[16:47:40] <TomJ> though if you configured it with an IP during setup, that will all be done automatically
[16:47:42] <rutski> *drivers
[16:48:06] <TomJ> do you know which drivers you need?
[16:48:35] <ballChalk> ifconfig plumb -a ?
[16:49:09] <TomJ> ballChalk: dont think that works
[16:49:20] <ballChalk> i haven't tested it, but i saw it in some sun docs i thin
[16:49:38] <TomJ> $ ifconfig plumb -a
[16:49:39] <TomJ> ifconfig: -a: bad address
[16:49:46] <ballChalk> must be the other way around then
[16:49:47] <TomJ> oh
[16:49:50] <TomJ> yeah it is
[16:49:51] <TomJ> ifconfig -a plumb
[16:50:06] <TomJ> rutski: try that command
[16:50:49] <rutski> TomJ: no luck
[16:50:55] <rutski> and nope, I have no idea which drivers I need
[16:50:55] <TomJ> then definitely drivers
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[16:52:15] <rutski> no lspci... grr :(
[16:52:35] <rutski> gah! and /usr/bin/apropos is broken by default too!
[16:52:36] <asyd> scanpci in /usr/X11/bin iirc
[16:52:56] <ballChalk> /usr/X11/bin/scanpci
[16:53:41] <rutski> nice, ok so, it looks like I have a "Broadcom Corporation BCM40001-B0 100Base-TX"
[16:54:17] <ballChalk> check the hcl
[16:54:43] <rutski> man hcl: not found
[16:54:52] <rutski> apropos hcl: apropos is still screwed
[16:55:08] <ballChalk> Solaris is kinda like buying a CPU - you provide the motherboard or build it
[16:55:14] <rutski> google "opensolaris hcl": http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/hcl/
[16:55:14] <rutski> gotcha
[16:55:33] <rutski> ballChalk: heh, yea
[16:55:36] <ballChalk> It reduces the 'one size fits all' heh.  catman rebuilds your apropos db
[16:56:05] <ballChalk> something you never knew because you never had to.  because it was taken care of
[16:56:33] <rutski> ballChalk: http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/hcl/data/components/details/2698.html :)
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[16:57:21] <ballChalk> Driver URL:  http://homepage2.nifty.com/mrym3/taiyodo/eng/
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[16:58:43] <rutski> ballChalk: indeed
[16:59:02] <rutski> great... "You need gcc3.x to make 64bit binaries."
[16:59:16] <rutski> so now I have to install the dev tools without a network connection
[16:59:44] <rutski> oh, wait; perhaps solaris installed as x86
[17:00:02] <rutski> whoo, looks like it did
[17:00:28] <ballChalk> how are you checking?  isainfo -vk should help
[17:01:29] <ballChalk> the source file contains the binaries
[17:02:15] <TomJ> rutski: run catman to build your apropos index.  you'll want to set your MANPATH first though, e.g. :  /usr/openwin/man:/usr/X11/share/man:/usr/dt/man:/usr/share/man:/usr/sfw/man:/opt/sfw/man:/opt/coolstack/man:/opt/SUNWspro/man
[17:02:29] <TomJ> (remove any of those you dont have)
[17:02:47] <rutski> ah, damn
[17:04:08] <TomJ> oh and you'll probably want to add /usr/gnu/man or /usr/gnu/share/man (dont know which it is) on SXCE/OpenSolaris
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[17:07:18] <codestr0m1> how can I get the processor vendor .. I think I missed it in isainfo or psrinfo
[17:08:05] <seanmcg> codestr0m1, smbios
[17:08:09] <ballChalk> I see it in prtconf -v, under brand-string
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[17:10:08] <codestr0m1> ballChalk: thanks. is it possible to only pull this part of the string value='Intel(r) Core(tm)2 Duo CPU     T7700  @ 2.40GHz'
[17:10:38] <codestr0m1> otherwise.. I'll do some shell hackery to parse that
[17:11:14] <ballChalk> i dont know of a way.
[17:11:28] <ballChalk> nawk '/brand/ { getline; print}' works if you dont want to use gnu grep
[17:12:32] <codestr0m1> ballChalk: thanks
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[17:13:14] <cherp> how do I mount a solaris2 drive and how do I know what p? to use?
[17:13:59] <sartek> codestr0m1: also, kstat -p -m cpu_info -s vendor_id
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[17:15:00] <ballChalk> thats brilliant sartek.  to get the same output from prtconf it's s/vendor_id/brand/
[17:15:55] <ballChalk> oh shit he wanted vendor anyway
[17:16:10] <opensolaris1> when i do ifconfig -a if gives me 127.0.0.1 ... any reason ... internet was fine a second a go
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[17:22:06] <rutski> I followed the instructions but it's not working http://rafb.net/p/NL4LkZ79.html :(
[17:22:18] <rutski> the ifconfig plumb is failing
[17:22:49] <codestr0m1> ballChalk:  sartek this was perfect kstat -p -m cpu_info -s brand | head -n 1 | cut -f 2
[17:23:21] <rutski> "ifconfig bfe0 plumb" gives "ifconifg: cannot open link "bfe0": DLPI link does not exist"
[17:23:28] <ballChalk> GenuineIntel vs Intel(r)
[17:23:47] <tsoome> rutski: try dladm show-link
[17:24:03] <rutski> tsoome: still no output
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[17:24:24] <tsoome> if dladm doesnt show links, you are missing drivers
[17:24:27] <codestr0m1> ballChalk: well. stupid intel uses spaces.. so not sure how to parse this sanely, but whatever "Intel(r) Core(tm)2 Duo CPU     T7700  @ 2.40GHz"
[17:24:30] <PerterB> the make uninstall and modload from your build directory steps look a little suspect to me
[17:25:13] <rutski> and modinfo does show that the bfe module is loaded
[17:25:33] <rutski> PerterB: I skipped the make uninstall; as per their solaris 7 only notice
[17:25:46] <rutski> PerterB: the modload did seem to work though
[17:25:50] <rutski> why did that bit look suspect?
[17:26:05] <ballChalk> tsoome: hmmm, last i heard, dladm wont show what isnt plumbed
[17:26:14] <tsoome> is the bfe listed in /etc/driver_aliases
[17:26:21] <tsoome> ballChalk: ofc it will
[17:26:25] <ballChalk> i even had someone show it to me.  but maybe they were lying
[17:26:32] <rutski> yep
[17:26:36] <rutski> three times actually
[17:26:39] <rutski> that could be the problem
[17:26:41] <tsoome> its the method to check what interfaces you have
[17:27:08] <tsoome> three times is not the issue, the issue is if your card pci-id wil match;)
[17:27:11] <tsoome> will*
[17:27:25] <PerterB> because I would assume it uninstalls it :)  whenever I've used those drivers on recent solaris, make and adddrv.sh are sufficient (assuming it has the right pci ids)
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[17:30:34] <rutski> hmm, so then what's the next step in debugging this issue exactly?
[17:31:07] <tsoome> does this module make any messages in /var/adm/messages?
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[17:32:25] <rutski> not that I can see, nope
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[17:32:53] <tsoome> you are building it yourself from sources?
[17:33:32] <tsoome> there is usually make install and make uninstall targets in Makefile, try uninstalling it and re-installing.
[17:33:36] <rutski> nope, using the one from their adm64/ dir
[17:33:38] <rutski> *amd
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[17:34:25] <tsoome> or check if there are some install instructions in readme/other docs included:)
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[17:40:09] <tsoome> another thing is you can check if the your cards pci-id is included in list of this driver pci-id's
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[17:45:32] <rutski> tsoome: ah, and how do I do that?
[17:45:55] <tsoome> can you find pci-id's for this driver?
[17:46:17] <tsoome> they should be listed with add_drv command
[17:47:14] <opensolaris1> when i do ifconfig -a if gives me 127.0.0.1 ... any reason ... internet was fine a second a go
[17:49:12] <rutski> tsoome: not quite sure what I'm supposed to do
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[18:01:17] <tsoome> what ethernet adapter it is afterall?
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[18:16:26] <Suprano> hi there
[18:16:51] <Suprano> you may should put a space between http://www.genunix.org/wiki and ,
[18:16:55] <Suprano> in the topic
[18:17:12] <TomJ> That's not in the topic
[18:17:25] <TomJ> oh maybe you mean the on-join message?
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[18:20:34] <Suprano> oholiks, yes the chanserv join msg
[18:20:37] <Suprano> *oh yes
[18:20:42] <Suprano> oholiks, sorry for hl
[18:20:48] <oholiks> :)
[18:20:49] <oholiks> np
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[18:21:11] <Suprano> ohyes
[18:21:18] <Suprano> hm i wonder why i always type TAb
[18:21:20] <oholiks> i have hl on solaris and others, this channel gets frequent hl =)
[18:21:34] <Suprano> hehe
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[18:22:00] <Suprano> atm i search in the wiki wether i can use my XFS filesystem under solaris
[18:22:09] <Suprano> i am thinking about putting it on my lapto
[18:22:18] <Suprano> together with arch linux
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[18:23:25] <turtle> why
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[18:23:34] <Suprano> why what?
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[18:24:52] <sstallion_work> Suprano: eh, XFS is well... XFS.
[18:25:03] <Suprano> thats very informative..
[18:25:19] <sstallion_work> gdamore: morning
[18:25:26] <CosmicDJ> xfs on solaris? I don't think so
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[18:28:03] <TomJ> Why on earth would you want to use anything besides ZFS?
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[18:28:47] <TomJ> We Solaris admins have calendars on our walls counting down the days until we can upgrade our Solaris servers to use ZFS everywhere
[18:29:23] <Suprano> TomJ, because i want my home partition to be available to linux too
[18:29:24] <turtle> word
[18:29:38] <TomJ> Suprano: dual boot?
[18:29:49] <Suprano> yes
[18:30:12] <TomJ> You're not going to have much fun with that.  There's not much common ground.  You might be able to get read-write ext2/3 support in Solaris but I dont know how good it is
[18:30:16] <Suprano> thats my plan
[18:30:20] <TomJ> You wont get Solaris UFS support in Linux
[18:30:29] <TomJ> There's FUSE-ZFS I suppose, if you don't mind watching paint dry while it does stuff
[18:30:47] <TomJ> FAT16 works natively read-write in both, you could try that :)
[18:30:53] <lucianno> hi!
[18:30:59] <Suprano> well the system partiton does not need to be read/write able, only the home partition
[18:31:20] <TomJ> Suprano: All I said applies to any partition
[18:31:53] <Suprano> k
[18:34:02] <TomJ> there's an ext2fs driver for Solaris 10 here:  http://paulf.free.fr/software.html
[18:34:04] <TomJ> think it's readonly though
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[18:34:39] <TomJ> FUSE-ZFS in Linux is still in beta I think, and there's a high chance that it wont support the ZFS version used by (Open)Solaris  (though perhaps it's possible to downgrade the ZFS version until it matched)
[18:34:47] <TomJ> in all scenarios, you're in unsupported and buggy territory
[18:34:54] <TomJ> I said FAT16 earlier, I meant FAT32
[18:35:01] <TomJ> You can read-write share a FAT32 partition between them
[18:35:05] <TomJ> Of course, that kinda sucks too.
[18:35:14] <TomJ> But probably has less chance of kernel panics and corrupted data.
[18:35:30] <Suprano> hmmm hows opengl support in solaris?
[18:35:51] <CosmicDJ> Suprano: depends on your gfx card
[18:36:23] <Suprano> its a T23
[18:36:25] <Suprano> thnipad
[18:36:28] <Suprano> *thinkpad
[18:39:35] <CosmicDJ> sw 3d of your card isn't supported (i.e. no driver), hw 3d if it is
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[18:42:23] <alanc> CosmicDJ: xfs on solaris?  Of course!   We've shipped the X Font Server for 15 years now....    or did you mean that new-fangled SGI filesystem that stole the name?  8-)
[18:43:18] <TomJ> xfs stil counts as 'new fangled' ?
[18:43:38] <oxygene> there's also xFS, which is yet another filesystem (older than sgi's, I think)
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[19:06:53] <spackest> just wondering about project indiana / zfs and best practices.  I have an x4150 which will have four hard drives to start.  should I make one zfs pool that has the os and everything on it?
[19:07:25] <sstallion_work> spackest: use sxce
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[19:08:50] <spackest> sstallion_work: you mean don't use project indiana?
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[19:09:37] <sstallion_work> spackest: Indiana is geared more toward desktop use; if you are planning to use your x4150 as it was intended, SXCE might be more of what you are looking for
[19:10:11] <spackest> sstallion_work: ok, I currently use sxce on a couple boxes, but I wanted to play around with indiana a bit
[19:10:34] <spackest> I am a bit behind, can you install the os on zfs these days in sxce?
[19:10:39] <sstallion_work> yes
[19:10:58] <spackest> and it's an easy install option or there is a list of like thirty steps to do it?
[19:11:07] <spackest> last I looked it was the latter
[19:11:16] <sstallion_work> its braindead simple
[19:11:25] <sstallion_work> and you actually have some control over what your root pool is named
[19:11:33] <spackest> killer
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[19:11:55] <spackest> how about ips on sxce?  I currently use blastwave for such things
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[19:12:04] <sstallion_work> no ips on sxce
[19:12:16] <sstallion_work> I would suggest using SFE instead of blastwave, or sunfreeware.com
[19:13:40] <spackest> do you have a preference?
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[19:14:14] <sstallion_work> SFE for desktop and SFW for servers typically
[19:14:48] <sstallion_work> I usually end up using a combination of SFW and locally built bits; mind you I don't maintain a large number of servers
[19:14:49] <spackest> that (http://www.sunfreeware.com/) is one busy page :)
[19:15:00] <sstallion_work> its been that way for a very long time :)
[19:15:15] <spackest> I am going to now have three, each with several zones
[19:15:29] <sstallion_work> there isnt very much which isnt part of a full install of sxce
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[19:15:48] <spackest> how does SFW compare with blastwave?
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[19:16:11] <spackest> or the coolstack stuff, which I currently use
[19:16:13] <sstallion_work> its a little more painful to use; it supports pkg-get but doesnt carry around the bloat (or at least not as much)
[19:17:09] <sstallion_work> SFW tends to stay more up to date IMHO
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[19:21:53] <spackest> what are the plans for adding ips to sxce?
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[19:29:57] <rutski> http://opensolaris.org/os/project/indiana/resources/rn3/Restore-system/
[19:30:00] <rutski> pfexec zpool import -R /altroot -f rpool
[19:30:12] <rutski> cannot import 'rpool': no such pool available
[19:30:14] <spackest> sstallion_work: thanks
[19:30:23] <sstallion_work> spackest: sure thing. good luck.
[19:30:27] <rutski> yet zpool list shows a pool named 'rpool'
[19:30:29] <rutski> what gives?
[19:31:28] <holcomb> if it's already imported it won't re-import
[19:31:45] <rutski> oh, oops
[19:31:52] <rutski> I missed the part where they said to reboot the system with the live cd
[19:31:53] <rutski> my bad
[19:32:25] <rutski> is this pfexec thing basically like sudo on other systems?
[19:35:37] <e^ipi> you could think of it like that. the commad is part of RBAC
[19:35:55] <h3sp4wn> I never understood why SXCE has sudo now as well
[19:36:15] <e^ipi> because people are looking for it in the package repo...
[19:36:26] <e^ipi> i'dve just symlinked pfexec to it
[19:36:51] <h3sp4wn> I would have aliased it and put a warning run pfexec next time
[19:36:52] <spackest> not sure if anyone here cares, but i was trying to download the latest opensolaris build in chrome and I got 500 Server ErrorThe following error occurred: [code=SERVER_RESPONSE_RESET] The server response could not be read because of an error. Contact your system administrator.Could not open error file
[19:37:14] <e^ipi> does it work in a different browser?
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[19:37:48] <spackest> trying in firefox
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[19:38:46] <spackest> and actually, using the sun download manager, I get wrong data size in destination file
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[19:39:44] <e^ipi> yeah, i could never get the download manager to do anythnig useful
[19:39:51] <e^ipi> not a fan of it...
[19:40:12] <spackest> I used it last night to get coolstack stuff and it worked just fine
[19:40:29] <spackest> yeah, failed again with the same error
[19:41:37] <e^ipi> so nuke the destination file and try again
[19:41:59] <e^ipi> ( and i'm not saying that download manager doesn't work, just that it doesn't work sufficiently well to make it worthwhile )
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[19:43:14] <spackest> deleted the destination and tried again getting the same result
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[19:44:35] <e^ipi> nfi.
[19:44:41] <spackest> and when I download it directly, I get a 0 byte file
[19:45:49] <spackest> hmm, well that's gonna make it pretty hard to install :)
[19:46:01] <spackest> other folks can get it ok?
[19:46:10] <spackest> I am trying build 98, single dvd image
[19:47:43] <spackest> yeah, the two segment version is working fine
[19:47:45] <spackest> beats me
[19:47:59] <spackest> running xp, not sure if that matters
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[19:50:29] <e^ipi> *shrug*
[19:50:34] <e^ipi> I grab it just fine
[19:50:59] <e^ipi> aside from wget not working so good, I've not had problems with dlc
[19:55:00] <rutski> so how is it that I can do something like "pfexec /foo" without typing the root password?
[19:56:34] <e^ipi> rutski: because you have the root role assigned to you
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[19:59:44] <rutski> I don't get it, I followed these steps http://opensolaris.org/os/project/indiana/resources/rn3/Restore-system/
[19:59:56] <rutski> but after rebooting a whole ton of files in /opt are still there
[20:00:03] <rutski> I expected the rollback to remove them
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[20:06:02] <rutski> although "pkg list" shows those packages as no longer installed; weird
[20:06:05] <rutski> so what the heck happened?
[20:06:12] <rutski> did the rollback ignore /opt for some reason?
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[20:12:21] <rutski> nobody?
[20:13:38] <timsf> rutski did you roll back the ./opt filesystem as well?
[20:14:08] <rutski> not as a separate step, nope
[20:14:10] <rutski> I didn't know I had to
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[20:24:43] <evocallaghan> Anyone know what's going on with the Lustre port to Solaris ?
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[20:29:50] <sparc> how can i disable abort sequence, my sparc system went into PROM mode
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[20:30:55] <SunTzuTech> sparc: did you check /etc/default/kbd?
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[20:31:46] <sparc> yes, the value KEYBOARD_ABORT is disabled
[20:31:58] <sparc> in /etc/default/kbd
[20:32:25] <SunTzuTech> is that before or after reboot?
[20:32:48] <sparc> i hadn;t changed it. its the same
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[20:33:13] <SunTzuTech> and it's "uncommented"?
[20:33:22] <sparc> yes
[20:33:47] <SunTzuTech> and the system has been rebooted since that was changed?
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[20:34:17] <sparc> yes. and again i went into PROM mode
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[20:34:41] <sparc> is there any other reason than the config in /etc/default/kbd
[20:35:56] <SunTzuTech> going into prom mode may happen for a copule of reasons, disconnected keyboard or STOP-A (L1-A), or there's a hardware fault...
[20:36:27] <Doc> or powre fault with auto-boot false
[20:36:33] <SunTzuTech> perhaps you are thinking that you don't want any prom mode available
[20:36:36] <SunTzuTech> +1 Doc
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[20:37:32] <sparc> what can i do in this PROM mode to go normal
[20:37:54] <holcomb> go
[20:39:01] <sparc> except it can i run kbd -a disable    command
[20:40:51] <sparc> solved.
[20:41:36] <sparc> hey why is that sun have provided kbd and mice attached
[20:42:01] <sparc> what' wrong in using them separate
[20:42:47] <SunTzuTech> 25 years of history?  Obviously, you're not on a USB system which use separate mouse and keyboard cables...
[20:43:12] <holcomb> fewer cables
[20:43:47] <holcomb> http://opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/caselog/2008/571/materials/snapgui-basic-png/
[20:44:01] <holcomb> whatever is rendering the case materials for arc stuff should be fixed :)
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[20:47:24] <alanc> holcomb: that would be plocher's scripts
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[20:54:52] <sstallion_work> SunTzuTech: afternoon
[20:55:44] <sstallion_work> sparc: eh, mice and keyboards have been separate for a *very* long time
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[20:59:36] <SunTzuTech> sstallion_work: afternoon.  sorry to chat and run, but gotta go get the boy
[20:59:56] <sstallion_work> SunTzuTech: no worries; take it easy ;)\
[21:00:10] <SunTzuTech> later
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[21:12:21] <jbk> i don't suppose anyone knows of an easy way to find out the last changeset in ON prior to the ss12 switch?
[21:13:05] <sstallion_work> jbk: was it tagged ?
[21:13:17] <jbk> no idea
[21:13:22] <sstallion_work> you could just choose one of the snv_ tags
[21:13:36] <sstallion_work> i'm sitting on snv_97 and have had no issues with ss11 on sparc
[21:13:52] <jbk> well the problem is, there's a nasty nv_sata bug in the midst of that
[21:13:58] <sstallion_work> ouch
[21:14:11] <e^ipi> jbk: the tag was something about lint errors iirc
[21:14:41] <jbk> so i need to avoid ss12 & avoid the bug, but still have something recent enough that it'd be suitable for testing prior to a putback
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[22:10:00] <timsf1> jbk did you get that changeset id?
[22:10:18] <jbk> no, i was gonna try to dig through it when i got home
[22:10:28] <jbk> that or just try the unpatched ss12
[22:10:32] <timsf1> I'll get it for you now, hang on...
[22:11:33] * timsf1 waits for hg to pull from the gate...
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[22:13:06] <timsf1> looks like 14c1f4618d58
[22:13:53] <jbk> well i'll try that tonight or tomorrow.. thanks
[22:13:55] <timsf1> gah, local tree has conflicts..
[22:14:03] <timsf1> I'll verify in a bit
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[22:20:50] * codestr0m1 is having fun porting mplayer to sun cc
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[22:31:15] <sstallion_work> codestr0m1: hasnt SFE already done that ?
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[22:31:48] <codestr0m1> sstallion for gcc or sun cc?
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[22:32:54] <codestr0m1> sstallion_work: ^
[22:32:56] <sstallion_work> codestr0m1: I would have thought studio. I would check the specfiles
[22:33:55] <jbk> i didn't think sfe used ss
[22:34:03] <jbk> seemed like the used gnu for everything
[22:34:05] <sstallion_work> as much as possible
[22:34:10] <codestr0m1> sstallion_work: SFE/encumbered/SFEmplayer.spec has export CC=gcc so I guess not and I was discouraged earlier from doing this
[22:34:11] <sstallion_work> there are somethings you just have to build with gcc
[22:34:20] <sstallion_work> codestr0m1: ahh gotcha
[22:34:52] <codestr0m1> I've got a pretty good sized patch going so far, but stuff like this puzzles me http://rafb.net/p/6nU3B776.html
[22:35:15] <codestr0m1> I'm not sure how to get more verbosity on this cc: acomp failed for utils.c
[22:35:29] <codestr0m1> normally that's an ld problem
[22:35:50] <codestr0m1> and I looked at the code, but I think I may be past my productive hour
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[22:37:04] <codestr0m1> twisti_home: hej! you're in here now or have I just been missing you?
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[22:38:15] <twisti_home> codestr0m1, Have been away and go to bed now.
[22:38:18] <twisti_home> Back tomorrow.
[22:38:44] <codestr0m1> k
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[23:51:55] <rutski> is it possible to boot opensolaris to a root console (without requiring a password)?
[23:52:21] <sstallion_work> rutski: ... you are kidding right ?
[23:52:46] <rutski> sstallion_work: are _you_ kidding?
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[23:53:03] <sstallion_work> I'm not the one asking idiotic questions.
[23:53:16] <sstallion_work> yes it can be done, but it will require changing how the system boots; likely through SMF
[23:53:17] <rutski> I'm not the one calling a very important question idiotic
[23:53:26] <rutski> oh... wait
[23:53:41] <rutski> I thought you were implying that wanting to do that was idiotic
[23:54:01] <sstallion_work> I was.
[23:54:03] <hile_> It is..
[23:54:07] <rutski> but now I realize that you were probably implying that asking if it can be done was idiotic because the answer is obviously yes?
[23:54:16] <rutski> oh, how is that idiotic?
[23:54:31] <hile_> because you should always require a password to get into single user mode
[23:54:32] <rutski> I'm in physical possession of an opensolaris machine for which I don't have the root password
[23:54:42] <hile_> boot it off media
[23:55:09] <sstallion_work> rutski: so boot up with the cd, mount the old root filesystem and go nuts
[23:55:16] <rutski> hile_: well if you can just do that then why is it idiotic to allow single user mode sans a password?
[23:55:51] <hile_> because then any fucktards can reboot  the box and insta root shell
[23:56:00] <sstallion_work> rutski: because its trivial to reboot the system into single-user mode. its a tad more difficult to arrange for it to boot to different media
[23:56:19] <bda> What, like in GA?
[23:56:25] <hile_> espeically since teh latter requires phiscal access
[23:56:25] <rutski> hmm, but don't you have to have the root password to begin with in order to reboot into single user mode?
[23:56:28] <bda> Or SX?
[23:56:49] <bda> rutski: Not if you just hardboot it?
[23:56:52] <sstallion_work> rutski: of course you don't
[23:57:01] <rutski> sstallion_work: ah, I wasn't aware
[23:57:05] <sstallion_work> if you have console access all it takes is a quick stop-a and boot -s
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[23:57:27] <rutski> I see; interesting
[23:57:46] <alanc> unless the admin set an OBP/BIOS password too
[23:58:02] <rutski> heh, yea; indeed
[23:58:14] <sstallion_work> alanc: you know, I don't think I've ever seen an OBP password ;)
[23:58:50] <alanc> run a lab where students have console access, and you'll see the use quickly 8-)
[23:58:53] <hile_> I had it set at a university at one point
[23:59:24] <sstallion_work> alanc: I went to a cheap school, I had to buy my own sparc ;)
[23:59:53] <hile_> exactly. alan :)





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