[00:02:35] <Gman> heh
[00:02:46] <Gman> well let me know what you have and I'll update the instructions
[00:02:52] <jbk> well i lost about a week due to weather issues
[00:02:55] * Gman trying to catchup on a lot of time
[00:02:59] <Gman> s/time/mail
[00:03:15] <jbk> i've got an email ready, just been updating it as i find more packages that are needed
[00:03:30] <jbk> (these are all on pkg.os.o, but aren't installed by default)
[00:03:39] <Gman> that's good news
[00:03:41] <jbk> would be nicer if ON was a bit more self contained
[00:03:58] <Gman> yeah, saw some threads on on-discuss about that
[00:06:40] <e^ipi> ON is a crazy mess
[00:06:58] <e^ipi> i don't have a solution, mind you... it's just hard to follow if you're not used to poking around in it
[00:07:10] <e^ipi> unlike the BSD's, which one can follow pretty easily
[00:07:19] <jbk> to a degree
[00:07:30] <jbk> sometimes it's non-intuituve where some of the drivers are in the bsd's
[00:07:44] <jbk> more than once, i just guess on the filename and run find
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[00:07:57] <e^ipi> on a different note, Gman ... when I'm done these slides for the OpenSol presentation i'm putting together, want to edit/proof/whatever ?
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[00:13:57] <e^ipi> *shrug*
[00:14:09] <Gman> e^ipi: sure thing
[00:14:11] <Gman> be happy to
[00:14:17] <e^ipi> cool, thx
[00:14:40] <e^ipi> i'll finish them up in a couple days or so, i'll just email them to you
[00:15:09] <Gman> sweet, should be over my email mound by then
[00:16:06] <e^ipi> i won't be getting the BTS kits for about 2 days or so, and then i still need to coordinate with a couple profs to see who'll let me crash their first year class
[00:17:44] <Gman> heh
[00:17:50] <Gman> i got a stack of them through for software freedom day
[00:18:01] <Gman> have a bunch left, so figured i'd probably send them around some of the unis around .nz
[00:21:18] <e^ipi> dan's people are shipping me ~ 30 ish
[00:21:34] <e^ipi> i go to a small uni, so it should be enough for the 1st and 2nd year kids
[00:21:52] <e^ipi> ( the young impressionable ones that haven't made firm decisions about technology yet ;)  )
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[00:30:16] <Gman> e^ipi: make sure you upstream the feedback on their experiences ;)
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[00:37:39] <RealBallchalk> hi
[00:38:04] <jbk> hi
[00:38:14] <e^ipi> Gman: will do
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[00:44:20] <jmcp> hi jbk
[00:44:22] <jmcp> hi one-n-all
[00:45:35] <jbk> woo nightly finished
[00:45:39] <jbk> now to see if it was successful
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[00:48:23] <jbk> grr
[00:48:38] <e^ipi> no work?
[00:48:42] <jbk> nope
[00:48:42] <kim0> Is there anyway for opensolaris users to use Flash9 and Skype ?
[00:49:08] <e^ipi> skype requires brandz or other virtualization
[00:49:23] <e^ipi> flash9 is there though, isn't it?
[00:49:23] <kim0> flash9 ?
[00:49:28] <kim0> dunno
[00:49:29] <e^ipi> on adobe's site
[00:49:42] <e^ipi> yep
[00:49:45] <kim0> seems so
[00:49:50] <jbk> hockwave Flash
[00:49:51] <jbk> File name: libflashplayer.so Shockwave Flash 9.0 r115
[00:49:54] <jbk> so yes
[00:50:26] <jmcp> 9.0.125.0 is current
[00:50:28] <kim0> Is kde 4.1 on 2008.11
[00:50:28] <e^ipi> i'm somewhat surprised nobody's decoded the skype text protocol
[00:50:57] <e^ipi> even without video/voice that might be useful to some people
[00:51:13] <kim0> well not really
[00:51:14] <kim0> :D
[00:51:55] <jbk> it'd be nice if it wasn't so time-consuming to examine the nightly output
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[00:52:13] <jmcp> jbk: grep "not remade"
[00:52:14] <kim0> Can I run Skype inside Windows on xVM, and assume it can use sound ?!
[00:52:22] <e^ipi> kim0: probably
[00:52:33] <kim0> video would be impossible, right :)
[00:52:34] <e^ipi> might be lighter weight to use wine though
[00:52:36] <jmcp> jbk: and that's what the mail_msg is in your $CODEMGR_WS/log/log.$date  is for
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[00:52:46] <e^ipi> video would probably be impossible, yeah
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[00:52:54] <e^ipi> but who knows
[00:52:54] <kim0> sigh
[00:53:16] <e^ipi> does vbox have a useful USB passthrough?
[00:53:48] <_mary_kate_> i heard you can do video on xen if you dedicate a pci card to the domu
[00:53:54] <_mary_kate_> i have no idea if solaris supports that, though
[00:53:57] <jmcp> e^ipi: I think so
[00:54:03] <jmcp> _mary_kate_: being worked on, iirc
[00:54:17] <e^ipi> _mary_kate_: iommu just put back a couple days ago
[00:54:59] <jmcp> fb stuff is different, and difficult, apparenrlty
[00:55:00] <kim0> would that mean 3D games inside a windows VM ?
[00:55:12] <jmcp> kim0: and photoshop :)
[00:55:19] <_mary_kate_> kim0: yes, but you'd need a kvm switch
[00:55:21] <_mary_kate_> or a second monitor
[00:55:25] <kim0> why!
[00:55:33] <tomj_> no USB on solaris vbox
[00:55:37] <kim0> jmcp: photoshop can run happily inside virtual box
[00:55:39] <tomj_> it works okish on the other versions
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[00:55:45] <_mary_kate_> kim0: like i said - "if you dedicate a pci card"
[00:55:56] <_mary_kate_> that dedicated card has its own video output
[00:55:56] <e^ipi> what I'd like to set up is a machine running solaris and windows in an xvm domU with video and kb/mouse passed through to the windows guest... essentially a windows box to all appearances , except it's actually solaris managing everything
[00:56:01] <e^ipi> just for kicks
[00:56:03] <kim0> _mary_kate_: I thought a "virtual" PCI card :) lol
[00:56:35] <jmcp> kim0: surely that's without hw accel
[00:58:24] <jbk> ok
[00:58:37] <jbk> though I know this list isn't complete
[00:58:47] <jmcp> jbk: and if you set the mailto var in your env file, you'll get that mail_msg sent to you
[00:58:48] <jbk> when i first started, there was a perl module i had to install
[00:59:00] <jbk> but i didn't write down what it was
[00:59:20] <jmcp> what are you building?
[00:59:22] <jbk> does pkg keep any sort of log of installed packages?
[00:59:24] <jbk> ON
[00:59:31] <jbk> i'm trying to test a simple fix
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[00:59:38] <jbk> but my desktop is running opensolaris
[00:59:42] <jmcp> oh, right
[00:59:47] <jbk> the code itself compiles without errors
[00:59:50] <jbk> and is probably correct
[00:59:57] <jbk> but need a bfu archive to verify
[01:00:05] <jbk> it's simple enough
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[01:08:48] <Gman> http://www.ustream.tv/channel/open-storage-summit
[01:08:54] <Gman> looks like it's live - ben talking atm
[01:10:10] <jbk> is SUNWj6dev part of the default set of packages installed on indiana?
[01:10:21] <jbk> or alternatively, is there someplace i can see what's installed by default?
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[01:11:07] <jbk> prior to this, i installed some stuff, so i know my list won't be conclusive, but I know javac is one thing that's needed
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[01:37:16] <Gman> jbk: not installed by default, certainly
[01:37:41] <e^ipi> metapackage... SUNWon-build-tools ?
[01:37:50] <Gman> yeah, that would be helpful
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[01:37:59] <e^ipi> indeed
[01:38:08] <e^ipi> the non-redistrib stuff would still need to be pulled in from nevada
[01:38:26] <e^ipi> until there's a 'don't mirror me' repo
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[01:48:46] <Gman> e^ipi: yeah, non-redistrib repo coming before the end of the year :)
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[01:58:47] <jbk> yeah a meta package that had as much as possible would be nice
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[02:03:15] <Trede> whats the largetst known ZFS based installation ?
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[02:03:53] <jamesd> joyent or some scieence lab somewhere
[02:04:25] <Trede> thanks
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[02:13:30] <RealBallchalk> what's so great about nonredistributable repo?
[02:14:04] <RealBallchalk> Trede: microsoft's hotmail systems
[02:14:06] <RealBallchalk> :p
[02:15:07] <e^ipi> RealBallchalk: you can't build ON without one?
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[02:15:17] <jamesd> RealBallchalk, why do you care ... as long as it meets your needs, if someone else wants it they can get a copy of for themselves.
[02:17:50] <e^ipi> it sucks that you can't build ON without non-redistributable stuff, but there you go
[02:18:25] <jmcp> it sucks that you need libxml2 from an installed NV system in order to build NV
[02:18:49] <e^ipi> ?
[02:18:57] <jbk> you need a lot more than that :)
[02:18:58] <RealBallchalk> ohhh building on ok
[02:19:15] <jbk> you need the netscape nspr
[02:19:17] <RealBallchalk> jamesd ok ok gees
[02:19:17] <jbk> apache
[02:19:19] <jmcp> jbk: I'm just calling out one particular bit that annoys me *greatly*
[02:19:21] <jbk> flex
[02:19:24] <jbk> bison
[02:19:29] <jbk> perl xml support
[02:19:30] <jbk> postgres
[02:19:36] <jbk> java
[02:19:51] <jmcp> jbk: which bit of ON requires postgres to be installed?
[02:20:12] <jbk> heh i forget now, but it requires libpq
[02:20:17] <jbk> one of the libraries
[02:20:29] <jmcp> perl stuff requires bison
[02:20:32] <jmcp> and presumably flex
[02:20:48] <jbk> as well as mmsp is
[02:20:51] <jbk> +whatever
[02:21:02] * jmcp scowls @ mms
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[02:21:14] <jmcp> it's just mms* that requires libpq
[02:21:21] <jbk> also, you need all the sfw headers (well the net-snmp bits at least)
[02:21:40] * jmcp firmly in favour of pruning all the *crap* out of ON
[02:21:43] <jbk> i spent all day yesterday discovering this :)
[02:21:45] <jbk> me too :)
[02:21:57] <e^ipi> +1
[02:22:00] <jbk> i'd like ON to be largely self-contained
[02:22:05] <jmcp> yup
[02:22:11] <jbk> with perhaps a few very small exceptions if needed
[02:22:43] <jmcp> I want no exceptions
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[02:23:45] <jbk> we could always propose a project :)
[02:23:59] <jbk> though not sure when i'd have the time to contribute at the moment
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[02:24:19] <jmcp> I won't have time until after I get back from Beijing in November
[02:24:29] <jbk> oooh, what are you going there for? work?
[02:24:32] <jmcp> yeah
[02:24:36] <jbk> ahh
[02:24:38] <jmcp> meet with my boss and rest of team
[02:24:48] <jbk> the furthest i've ever gone for work is to california for training :)
[02:25:23] <e^ipi> i like travelling
[02:25:30] <jbk> i don't mind some travelling
[02:25:45] <jbk> but i have pets and live alone, so that makes it difficult
[02:26:17] <drcookie> I wouldn't mind visiting Asia someday
[02:26:34] <jbk> the only other country i've been to is canada :)
[02:26:40] <e^ipi> i'd consider a job in marketing for no other reason than that those guys essentially live at airports
[02:26:54] <e^ipi> jbk: canada's barely another country
[02:26:55] <jbk> which (no offence john) i don't really think counts too much :)
[02:27:12] <drcookie> I've been to Canada, Mexico and Peru
[02:27:19] <jbk> i've yet to go to mexico
[02:27:19] <e^ipi> we pronounce 'z' different and have different chocolate bars
[02:27:31] <e^ipi> ( oh, yeah... and we call them 'chocolate bars' not 'candy bars' )
[02:27:31] <jbk> even though i don't live too far from it now
[02:27:36] <e^ipi> but other than that it's pretty much the same
[02:27:54] <jmcp> e^ipi: are Canadian chocolate bars made with non-sour milk?
[02:28:07] <jbk> though my aunt lives even closer
[02:28:23] <drcookie> I've only been to Mexico City, but it was pretty neat
[02:28:40] <e^ipi> jmcp: umm... i dunno
[02:28:52] <jmcp> do they taste like Hershey's concoctions, or not?
[02:28:59] <e^ipi> they're not made with vegetable oil and high-fructose corn syrup though
[02:29:12] <e^ipi> jmcp: nah, some of them are actually good
[02:29:32] <jmcp> I read somewhere that Hershey's "big advance" was to realise he could make chocolate with sour/off milk, and save money
[02:29:51] <e^ipi> ( best argument against the "HFCS makes you fat" conspiracy theorists is canada )
[02:30:02] <jmcp> so now "everybody" in the US does likewise and the poor consumers over there don't know what good chocolate can taste like
[02:30:09] <e^ipi> we don't use HFCS in anything here, yet our obesity rate is about the same as in the states
[02:30:33] <drcookie> blech, sour milk
[02:30:34] <jbk> heh
[02:30:56] <drcookie> its all the canadian bacon, and putin(sp?)
[02:30:58] <jmcp> I've never had chocolate any time I've been in the US
[02:31:02] <jbk> poutine
[02:31:04] <drcookie> ah
[02:31:06] <drcookie> thx
[02:31:25] <drcookie> although, I think canadian bacon has less fat then the other crispy stuff
[02:31:45] <e^ipi> yeah, poutine is kinna a heart attack in a bowl
[02:31:53] <jbk> :)
[02:32:07] <jbk> that's nothing
[02:32:07] <jmcp> American "bacon" is just fried fat with slivers of meat to provide some colour definition
[02:32:21] <drcookie> heh
[02:32:22] <TomJ> and american chocolate is brown cardboard
[02:32:24] <jbk> there's a place a bit outside of college station, tx (about 90 min drive from here)
[02:32:29] <jbk> that sells chicken fried bacon
[02:32:35] <jbk> (basically deep fried bacon)
[02:32:38] <drcookie> yeah, I found that out the last time "I" went shopping for groceries, and couldn't find a decent pack of bacon
[02:32:43] <e^ipi> "canadian bacon" isn't actually a breakfast staple here... canadians just eat the regular cheap slab of lard as everyone else
[02:32:43] <jbk> with deep fried fat
[02:32:50] <jamesd> and american beer is like sex in a canoo,   fucking close to water.
[02:33:06] <e^ipi> +1
[02:33:06] <jbk> heh
[02:33:11] <e^ipi> 4% my ass...
[02:33:14] <jbk> i've been told the microbrews are better
[02:33:20] <jbk> though I drink very little beer
[02:33:29] <jbk> so i cannot really say
[02:34:19] <e^ipi> the comment is mostly directed to .us beers you can get in other countries
[02:34:28] <e^ipi> coors, bud, what have you... they're pretty awful
[02:34:44] <e^ipi> mind you molson canadian is pretty terrible too
[02:34:50] <jbk> amusingly, one of my old roommates who was from hamilton used to drink budweiser like it was going out of fashion
[02:35:05] * jmcp hopes nobody brings up "Fosters" as an example of Australian beer
[02:35:25] <jbk> australian for 'piss'? :)
[02:35:28] <e^ipi> jmcp: about on par with molson & bud
[02:35:34] <jmcp> that's about the size of it
[02:35:41] <drcookie> jbk: in what part of Canada do you live?
[02:35:44] <jbk> i don't
[02:35:47] <e^ipi> i do
[02:35:49] <drcookie> oh
[02:35:50] <jbk> i'm a bit farther south
[02:35:53] <drcookie> ack
[02:35:55] <jmcp> we export it because it's not good enough to gargle with
[02:36:02] <jbk> (houston, tx)
[02:36:04] <e^ipi> jbk: could you get further south before you became mexican?
[02:36:10] <jbk> yes actually
[02:36:21] <jbk> just follow the gulf coast for about 4 hours down to corpus cristi
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[02:37:24] <jbk> houston is in east texas, so it's not like el paso or even san antonio
[02:37:39] <jbk> it's about 50 miles from the gulf of mexico
[02:40:06] <drcookie> I don't want to interrupt the conv. and talk shop, but I'm kinda interested in OpenSolaris, and had a few questions
[02:40:13] <jbk> shoot
[02:40:17] <drcookie> cool
[02:40:40] <jmcp> drcookie: sometimes this channel is a bit like a ferret
[02:40:51] <e^ipi> OMGSHINYTHINGSGUYS!
[02:40:53] <jmcp> "ooh! shiny things!" (wait 30 seconds)
[02:41:05] <jmcp> oooh something else that's Newer and shinyinininininer
[02:41:06] <jbk> haha
[02:41:06] <jmcp> :)
[02:41:51] <drcookie> well, I've been using linux, and BSD's for a while, and I'm thinking of moving to OS, I just wonder how good the driver support is, and if the learning curve would be that high for a semi-experienced GNU/linux type person
[02:42:17] <jmcp> depends on how attached you are to your "oh, it all works like *this* on a real OS"
[02:42:28] <jmcp> I'd have problems with linux because it's different in ways that I find annoying
[02:42:36] <jbk> well you can download the opensolaris cd, it includes a hardware detection utility (live cd)
[02:42:39] <jmcp> having spent the best part of life since 1990 using SunOS and Solaris
[02:42:45] <jmcp> jbk: good point
[02:42:53] <jmcp> drcookie: any devices in particular that you're interested in?
[02:43:12] <jbk> that can help determine driver support (though esp for network drivers, there are some 3rd party ones that haven't been integrated yet, so its a very good start but not necessairly definitive)
[02:43:12] <drcookie> well, I downloaded the LiveCD from genunix today, and tried it out
[02:43:48] <drcookie> I ran the driver utility, and it flagged a few things as being either misconfigured, or missing drivers
[02:44:01] <jbk> do you know which ones?
[02:44:04] <drcookie> but my wireless card (Intel 4965)
[02:44:10] <e^ipi> sound stuff too
[02:44:18] <e^ipi> OSS has a bunch of driversr not in ON
[02:44:20] <jmcp> iwk for 4965, iirc
[02:44:43] <drcookie> says it worked, but wouldn't connect, at least i couldn't figure out how to use the automatic network thing
[02:44:59] <jbk> any encryption?
[02:45:04] <drcookie> WPA2
[02:45:12] <TomJ> 4965 is supported?
[02:45:17] <jmcp> TomJ: sure is
[02:45:20] <TomJ> neat
[02:45:49] <jbk> that could be it as well
[02:46:15] <drcookie> if WPA has better support, I can change my router
[02:47:03] <drcookie> It was kinda strange, because the first time I booted off the livecd, it popped up a box with the wireless networks in range
[02:47:18] <drcookie> the second time however, it didn't, and I couldn't figure out how to make it pop up
[02:47:26] <jbk> yeah, so the wireless card itself is working
[02:47:26] <jmcp> drcookie: you might want to see whether nwam is enabled -- run      svcs -l \*nwam\*
[02:47:34] <jbk> it might have used the previous settings
[02:47:42] <jbk> err
[02:47:42] <TomJ> never mind support, use WPA because it is secure
[02:47:43] <jbk> wait
[02:47:47] <TomJ> WEP is completely broken
[02:48:09] <drcookie> TomJ: I'm using WPA2 currently
[02:48:16] <TomJ> that's fine then
[02:48:49] <drcookie> I believe the nwam was running, I looked at the man pages for nwam, and did the whole svcadm enable thing
[02:48:54] <drcookie> and cycled that a few times
[02:50:13] <drcookie> I also have a broadcom netlink 5787 network adaptor that was flagged as missing a driver
[02:50:49] <drcookie> I saw on the site that you can download the bcme driver from broadcom's website, but it looks like it's for the broadcom 50xx series
[02:50:55] <drcookie> don't know if there is a difference
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[02:52:24] <drcookie> other than that, I am just trying to find if I can program in PLT scheme
[02:52:55] <e^ipi> that's a weird thing to need
[02:53:09] <e^ipi> i mean, probably
[02:53:45] <jmcp> can you program in PLT scheme normally?
[02:53:50] <e^ipi> heh
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[02:58:49] <Plaidrab> Is this a good place for xVM or is thee a better channel for some general questions?
[02:59:25] <jmcp> ##xen, I believe
[02:59:33] <jmcp> you might get some help here too
[02:59:34] <jmcp> so jus task
[02:59:38] <jmcp> or even, just askj
[02:59:40] <jmcp> or even, just ask
[02:59:48] * jmcp gives up onth tiping2
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[03:01:13] <drcookie> sorry, stepped away for a second
[03:01:24] <drcookie> I'm needing PLT scheme for a programming languages class
[03:01:57] <drcookie> just finished python, and we are starting scheme on monday
[03:02:12] * jmcp too tired to think of a horrible pun
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[03:02:45] <jmcp> drcookie: looks like you'd have to pull the source and build it yourself
[03:03:05] <drcookie> ok
[03:03:12] <drcookie> that shouldn't be that difficult
[03:03:21] <jmcp> drcookie: gimme a few mins, let me see whether there's anything interesting
[03:03:27] <drcookie> at least, I dont' think so
[03:03:46] <drcookie> I know there is the slib thing, but I don't know if it will allow me to write programs, and run them
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[03:06:08] <Plaidrab> Let me do a little more reading before I as really really foolish question and whittle it down to merely foolish questions.
[03:07:21] <jmcp> Plaidrab: ok
[03:08:10] <e^ipi> looks like studio doesn't love it
[03:08:19] <jmcp> where does it die?
[03:08:38] <e^ipi> some linker crap that i don't feel like dealing with right now
[03:08:49] <e^ipi> i'm building it with gcc4 at the moment
[03:08:55] <e^ipi> i'll throw up a package on cr.os.o
[03:09:12] <jmcp> ok
[03:09:24] <jmcp> I'll have a look with studio
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[03:11:01] <jmcp> e^ipi:    gcc/libffi/include/ffitarget.h", line 66: undefined symbol: FFI_DEFAULT_ABI
[03:11:02] <jmcp> ?
[03:11:22] <drcookie> bbiab
[03:11:29] <e^ipi> that'd be the one
[03:11:43] <Plaidrab> I don't suppose there's a tool out there right now that i can stick on an existing box and have it slide xVM underneath a multiboot environment with a solaris addition?
[03:12:12] <e^ipi> Plaidrab: aside from installing solaris ?
[03:12:18] <_mary_kate_> Plaidrab: what exactly is 'a solaris adition' and what do you mean 'slide underneath'?
[03:12:45] <Plaidrab> I'd prefer not to rebuild the box. That's all. Hoping I might luck into a migration tool.
[03:12:59] <e^ipi> Plaidrab: install solaris.
[03:13:08] <e^ipi> and then ... what? you've got xen and the whole 9 bits
[03:14:28] <Plaidrab> That would wipe the box. :) Like I said. Was hoping for a migration tool. Otherwise, I have to wait a long while to play with the new shiny.
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[03:15:13] <Plaidrab> Figured it was an unreaslitic request. But couldn't hurt
[03:17:57] <Plaidrab> Aha. Found the terminology I was missing. P2V.
[03:20:50] <Plaidrab> But looks like it is task to wait for my next RH upgrade.
[03:20:54] <jmcp> e^ipi: src/foreign/foreign.c line 1694
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[03:25:31] <e^ipi> my god, this thing won't build with any compiler at all
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[03:30:01] <drcookie> ok, I have another question.  I am trying to decide which version/distro/whatever of Solaris to install
[03:30:36] <drcookie> i've looked at plain Solaris 10, and OpenSolaris 0805
[03:31:01] <slash^> production i would go with sol10 ;)
[03:31:07] <slash^> cutting edge go with opensol
[03:31:32] <drcookie> would you consider a laptop being used for university as production?
[03:31:34] <drcookie> :)
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[03:35:13] <e^ipi> probably not, because it doesn't cost money when it goes down
[03:36:48] <drcookie> i'm really intrigued with ZFS, but a little hestitant to trust it yet.  Is it considered production at this point?
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[03:37:38] <e^ipi> drcookie: yes
[03:38:07] <drcookie> I believe I will have to take the plunge
[03:38:27] <drcookie> is it difficult to setup a virtualized linux machine inside of OS?
[03:38:57] <drcookie> I guess being that its owned by Sun now, virtualbox might be available
[03:39:43] <e^ipi> it isn't hard, vbox is available
[03:39:46] <e^ipi> i prefer xen
[03:39:58] <drcookie> ok
[03:40:02] <drcookie> sounds great.
[03:40:08] <drcookie> Thank you all for the helps
[03:40:18] <drcookie> I might be on soon for more help
[03:40:19] <drcookie> :)
[03:40:25] <drcookie> g'night
[03:40:29] <e^ipi> come back whenever, i'm trying to get PLTscheme built
[03:40:32] <e^ipi> i'll have a package for you
[03:40:36] <drcookie> oh sheesh
[03:40:39] <drcookie> thank you!
[03:40:48] <drcookie> I didn't realize that was what you were doing
[03:40:51] <e^ipi> i happen to need it as well
[03:40:53] <drcookie> excellent
[03:40:59] <jbk> woo i have bfu archives!
[03:41:00] <e^ipi> so it's as good a kick in the ass as any
[03:41:41] <drcookie> excellent
[03:41:46] <drcookie> ok, dinner is calling
[03:41:50] <drcookie> laters
[03:41:51] <drcookie> :)
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[03:46:01] <e^ipi> whoever wrote this crap should be shot
[03:46:53] <jbk> that bad?
[03:50:09] <e^ipi> i'm relatively certain that it won't compile on any platform ever
[03:50:35] <e^ipi> 'typedef' is not another form of whitespace in C
[03:50:37] <jbk> maybe that's the first assignment for the clas :)
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[03:52:54] <nachox> what are you guys trying to compile?
[03:53:53] <e^ipi> pltscheme
[03:54:29] <jamesd> were trying to compile a giant plate of  nacho suppreme ;-p
[03:54:32] <e^ipi> a lot of schools make programming languages and AI clases suffer through it
[03:55:39] <nachox> i have no idea what that program is
[03:55:45] <e^ipi> scheme interpreter
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[04:05:20] <lkthomas> hey guys
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[04:05:35] <lkthomas> our opensolaris data server got I/O error
[04:05:43] <lkthomas> no response when we press keyboard as well
[04:05:57] <lkthomas> and I have to restart it, but how could I check why it got I/O error after restart ?
[04:06:53] <Plaidrab> /var/adm/messages hopefully
[04:07:41] <nachox> you can also boot with -k and fall back to kmdb i guess, or even force a kernel dump
[04:08:10] <lkthomas> nachox, I don't get it, what is it for ?
[04:08:28] <nachox> to unfreeze the box?
[04:08:42] <Plaidrab> I was assuming Single user :)
[04:10:10] <lkthomas> "unfreeze" ?
[04:10:14] <lkthomas> I mean
[04:10:18] <lkthomas> even keyboard got no response
[04:10:22] <lkthomas> how could you unfreeze ?
[04:13:06] <Plaidrab> Sounds like a Power cycle if you don't have some kind of ALOM/ILOM
[04:13:15] <lkthomas> ALOM ?
[04:13:21] <lkthomas> yes, I did power cycle it
[04:13:37] <lkthomas> but I got no idea how to trace why is it happen
[04:13:39] <Plaidrab> You don't have one then. :) It's a Lights-Out Management interface
[04:13:57] <lkthomas> I see, you mean using remote to power cycle the machine ?
[04:14:51] <Plaidrab> Or use it's "console" connection to get to the OS. Possibly the I/O issue wouldn't have nixed that communication channel
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[04:18:00] <lkthomas> ok, another question is that do I have to do scrub to check for error at all ?
[04:18:07] <lkthomas> I saw some site suggest to run it weekly
[04:18:37] <e^ipi> no, you don't have to, but if you don't attempt to read the blocks at all, it never gets checked
[04:19:44] <nachox> lkthomas, you might be able to force the kernel to generate a core dump even if you think you lost all the keyboard responce if you boot the kernel like i said, cant promise though, check /var/crash/$(hostname) it might be there already
[04:25:30] <lkthomas> hmm
[04:27:16] <nachox> i'm almost sure e^ipi would insult me and kick me if i'm too mistaken :P
[04:27:59] <lkthomas> ok, so if solaris crashed, I could power cycle it with -k, and it will generate kernel dump too ?
[04:28:04] <jbk> heh ON build time:  2.99724055555555556:59:50
[04:28:23] <lkthomas> jbk, huh? why you need to build ON ?
[04:28:29] <nachox> no, what you need there is a crystal ball or a delorean
[04:28:55] <jbk> because i'm testing an rfe
[04:29:05] <lkthomas> hmm
[04:29:15] <nachox> jbk, what rfe in particular? :)
[04:29:36] <jbk> umm 6613349
[04:29:41] <jbk> just an annoyance from an old job
[04:31:04] <nachox> ohh, nasty error message
[04:31:12] <jbk> very old error message
[04:31:15] <jbk> also not zone aware
[04:31:47] <nachox> that reminds me of an error i got from sudo in aix last week, it told me something like there was an error in the sudoers file in the -1 line
[04:32:08] <nachox> the actual problem was that the user was not granted permissions to run that command through sudo...
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[04:32:50] <nachox> hi dennis :)
[04:33:56] <jbk> heh hopefully this works :)
[04:34:10] * jbk did a beadm create; beadm mount, and am running bfu on the cloned be
[04:35:49] <nachox> you're running SXCE? i was told you could build ON in indiana these days
[04:35:52] <ZOP> heh, i think the REAL fix to that is to not use AIX nachox ;) heheeh
[04:36:22] <jbk> i'm running indiana on my desktop
[04:36:30] <jbk> and you can once you track down enough packages
[04:36:36] <jmcp> nachox: you can indeed
[04:36:48] <nachox> ZOP, trust me, using solaris and RBAC would have been a blessing for what i needed to do
[04:37:05] <nachox> jmcp, how hard is it to setup?
[04:37:21] <jmcp> not too hard, as far as I can see
[04:37:27] * jmcp goes searching for urls
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[04:39:46] <jbk> but i'll finish testing this tomorrow
[04:40:09] <jbk> i spent enough time on this this weekend
[04:42:23] <nachox> you guys have no idea what happened with hte FGAP project right?
[04:42:44] <jmcp> nachox: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/indiana/building_on
[04:42:57] <jbk> yeah
[04:43:01] <jbk> except it's not complete :)
[04:43:07] <jbk> as I found out this weekend
[04:43:16] <jbk> but i've sent glynn an email to update the package list
[04:43:35] <jmcp> you might want to send that to edp as well
[04:44:24] <jbk> i don't know if it 100% accurate since previously I had installed other packages for other stuff, so somethings might have already been there without me realizing it
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[04:46:17] <nachox> hmm, it's not that appealing, the whole idea of building in indiana is not downloading all of SXCE but as it stands i have to anyway
[04:47:37] <jbk> unfortunately, you still have to (unless someone can point out which cds the packages happen to be on)
[04:49:01] <nachox> having a small cd with the utilities needed would be usefull even if you have to agree to some terms with sun, but i'm guessing sun can only distribute that stuff as long is it is bundled with solaris
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[04:53:14] <jbk> jmcp: i'll shoot him an email
[04:53:22] <jbk> i'm assuming first.last at sun dot com will work
[04:53:35] <jmcp> yeah
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[05:10:38] <`spike> okay so i'm having sound issues
[05:10:51] <`spike> i have onbaord audio (not sure what kind comes on an asus am2), and i also have an audigy 1
[05:11:12] <`spike> i downloaded and pkgadd -d'd the oss package and rebooted. But when i osstest i get told i have no audio cards
[05:11:18] <`spike> any ideas?
[05:11:24] <ruse39> ossdetect ? ;)
[05:12:44] <ruse39> interesting, sun made smthing to speed up IPS ?
[05:12:55] <ruse39> or it still takes ages to update fresh installed systems ?
[05:15:34] <`spike> http://pastebin.ca/1208013
[05:16:15] <ruse39> spike, remove sun drivers for audio
[05:16:22] <`spike> how? heh
[05:16:29] <jmcp> rem_drv
[05:16:35] <`spike> thx
[05:16:37] <ruse39> I think pkginfo | grep audio
[05:16:43] <ruse39> then remove packages
[05:16:47] <jmcp> bzzzzt
[05:16:48] <ruse39> like SUNWhda etc
[05:17:04] <ruse39> I forgot how sun name their drivers
[05:17:12] <jmcp> ruse39: that removes the package, which might have more in it that just drivers
[05:17:33] <`spike> okay
[05:17:33] <jmcp> `spike: grep 1102,4 /etc/driver_aliases
[05:17:34] <ruse39> jmcp, SUNWhda got stuff not needed for oss
[05:17:36] <`spike> so rem_drv it is
[05:17:43] <ruse39> AFAIR
[05:18:00] <`spike> #  grep 1102,4 /etc/driver_aliases
[05:18:00] <`spike> audioemu "pci1102,4"
[05:18:19] <ruse39> rem_drv audioemu
[05:18:21] <`spike> thx
[05:18:23] <ruse39> afair
[05:18:34] <jmcp> yes, that's correct
[05:18:54] <jmcp> `spike: what the rem_drv does is remove the driver mapping in /etc/driver_aliases
[05:19:01] <jmcp> then you can re-try the ossdetect
[05:19:16] <ruse39> last time I've built my system about 6-7 months ago :)
[05:19:52] <ruse39> jmcp, IPS still non-usable ?
[05:20:00] <jmcp> I dunno
[05:20:04] <jmcp> a lot of people seem to be using it
[05:20:05] <ruse39> same with me :)
[05:20:06] <jmcp> I'm not
[05:20:36] <jmcp> I need to get some backports to S10 finished first, then i'll be re-installing with whatever the then-current osol release is
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[05:21:36] <ruse39> I think i will have time to play with openRC next week )
[05:22:50] <ruse39> I want rc.conf :)
[05:23:12] <jmcp> meh
[05:23:17] * jmcp more than happy with SMF
[05:23:41] * ruse39 with portage/solaris :P
[05:24:03] <ruse39> although, smf is nice thing
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[05:26:14] <ruse39> `spike, u got sound finally ?
[05:30:38] <jbk> yeah, i know some admins have a visceral hate of the binary repository though
[05:30:48] <ruse39> heh
[05:31:16] <ruse39> jbk, mostly because of ancient versions and bogus make options
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[05:35:35] <YC> Anyone know why I'd have trouble using IPS from developer build 93?
[05:35:55] <ruse39> what kind of ?
[05:36:51] <ruse39> IPS = trouble at all, especially on slow lines
[05:37:10] <YC> Reason I ask about build 93 is that I can't get a USB install working on anything later.
[05:37:12] <jmcp> I think that's a massive over-simplification
[05:37:13] <YC> Seems to time out.
[05:37:20] <jmcp> there are known issues with timeouts
[05:37:23] <YC> Claims to have an unexpected error.
[05:37:35] <jmcp> which have been documented via forum postings and on opensolaris.com ,iirc
[05:37:37] <YC> Later versions seem to work, *but*, I cna't get the installer to work. :\
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[05:54:38] <balbirs> I had one sun.txt fine in my desktop, now it is not there. i am not able to find that in trash also. how to get that file back ?
[05:54:42] <balbirs> I am using zfs
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[06:00:59] <balbirs> how to decipher this ?
[06:01:01] <balbirs> /devices/pci@0,0/pci103c,30ad@1f,2/disk@0,0:a
[06:01:36] <balbirs> I am trying to findout the contoller number, target number, disk number and slice number ?
[06:01:44] <jmcp> balbirs: run    format  < /dev/null
[06:01:56] <jmcp> that will print device paths which you can use to match that to
[06:02:27] <jmcp> or, you could  run      ls -l /dev/dsk/*s2 |grep "/devices/pci@0,0/pci103c,30ad@1f,2/disk@0,0"
[06:02:43] <balbirs> it is(format) saying
[06:02:44] <balbirs>        0. c4t0d0 <DEFAULT cyl 2429 alt 2 hd 255 sec 63>
[06:02:44] <balbirs>           /pci@0,0/pci103c,30ad@1f,2/disk@0,0
[06:03:41] <jmcp> right
[06:03:55] <jmcp> so that device path you pasted translates to c4t0d0s0
[06:04:02] <jmcp> (:a is slice0, :b is slice1 etc etc)
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[06:06:36] <`spike> yup all working now
[06:06:39] <`spike> thanks guys.
[06:06:40] <`spike> peace.
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[06:07:01] <balbirs> ok, how to decipher slice number and disk number I am getting, but controller and target... how to decipher that line ?
[06:07:19] <jmcp> sorry, I don't understand
[06:07:24] <jmcp> what are you trying to decipher?
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[06:07:52] <ruse39> I think he got 1+ storage controllers in his box
[06:08:04] <ruse39> he probably wants to know SCSI ID :)
[06:08:06] <balbirs> how does a disk got it name like c4t0*
[06:08:17] <jmcp> ruse39: best to wait for an explanation, which has just been provided
[06:08:42] <e^ipi> c0t0d0s0 - > controller 0, target 0, disk 0, slice 0
[06:08:42] <jmcp> balbirs: the controller number is determined by the bios or obp probe order for your motherboard's onboard devices and pci/pcix/pcie slots
[06:09:43] <Plaidrab> Hmm.
[06:10:05] <balbirs> I am assuming "/devices/pci@0,0/pci103c,30ad@1f,2/" <==> c4t0
[06:10:11] <jmcp> for your system, yes
[06:10:23] <jmcp> then you've got    disk@0,0
[06:10:28] <_mary_kate_> isn't that just the c4 part?
[06:10:29] <jmcp> which is target 0, lun 0
[06:10:35] <jmcp> sorry, you're correct
[06:10:44] <jmcp> dammit, typing too fast
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[06:12:16] <lkthomas> woo
[06:12:27] <lkthomas> the loading of gzip-9 zfs isn't small at all
[06:12:44] <e^ipi> you think?
[06:12:52] <lkthomas> opensolaris start to response slowly when people using storage server
[06:13:05] <e^ipi> i wonder why that could be...
[06:13:07] <lkthomas> is that normal ?
[06:13:10] <jmcp> there are some tuning things you could try
[06:13:19] <lkthomas> tuning on zfs you mean ?
[06:13:28] <lkthomas> e^ipi, which part should I check ?
[06:13:35] <e^ipi> lkthomas: the part where gzip is hella slow
[06:13:36] <ruse39> first zpool iostat
[06:13:37] <jmcp> lkthomas: tuning for ZFS and tuning for your kernel
[06:14:07] <lkthomas> storage     70.1G  8.99T     41     30  3.34M  1.36M
[06:14:09] <e^ipi> the default lzjb is faster than a regular disk IO... turn gzip on and forget it
[06:14:35] <jmcp> http://www.solarisinternals.com/wiki/index.php/ZFS_Configuration_Guide
[06:14:42] <lkthomas> you mean, it is normal then :)
[06:15:06] <e^ipi> yes
[06:15:13] <lkthomas> it's ok
[06:15:22] <lkthomas> we don't use other program at all on storage server
[06:15:25] <lkthomas> just pure storage
[06:16:47] <balbirs> but still still wondeting.. what actully defined the 'target number' here "/dev/dsk/c4t0d0s2 -> ../../devices/pci@0,0/pci103c,30ad@1f,2/disk@0,0:c
[06:16:47] <balbirs> "
[06:17:17] <e^ipi> balbirs: docs.sun.com ... go read the OBP documentation
[06:17:38] <jmcp> c4 = /devices/pci@0,0/pci103c,30ad@1f,2    {disk@} t0 = 0 d0 = 0 {:} s2
[06:17:46] <jmcp> basic system admin guide, more like
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[06:17:54] <jmcp> balbirs: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/coll/47.16
[06:18:00] <jmcp> which is in the channel's /topic
[06:18:54] <balbirs> thanks.. :)
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[06:37:56] <Ouroboros> is there a command to list PCI devices that works in the nevada installer?
[06:38:21] <Ouroboros> nm, figured it out
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[07:49:59] <Ouroboros> PATA device support is generic, correct?
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[07:51:08] <jmcp> yes
[07:51:11] <jmcp> pretty much
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[07:52:24] <Ouroboros> so how should i interpret: ide (driver not attached)
[07:52:40] <jmcp> means that you don't have a driver for that bit of hardware
[07:52:54] <jmcp> but the system expects it would be using an IDE driver if it could find one
[07:53:01] <Ouroboros> well, this is a JMB363 SATA/PATA card, i am trying to use the PATA port
[07:53:28] <jmcp> ah, the JMicron thing
[07:53:31] <jmcp> yes, not quite supported yet
[07:53:33] <Ouroboros> i am sort of able to use the SATA ports if i force attach to the ahci driver, but what should i do for para?
[07:53:49] <Ouroboros> hm, google searches seem to indicate that it is
[07:54:26] <Ouroboros> damn, i cant use http right now
[07:55:10] <jmcp> 6648246 AHCI driver looks for its registers wrongly, blocking support for JMicron JMB363     was fixed in snv_82
[07:55:19] <Ouroboros> so my understanding is that the PATA port is just bridged to the motherboard PATA stuff, so i should not need a driver for this
[07:55:20] <jmcp> but there's also this     6661633 AHCI: No ATAPI for JMicron 20360/20363 in AHCI mode
[07:55:31] <jmcp> I don't believe your understanding is correct
[07:55:36] <Ouroboros> hm
[07:55:43] <jmcp> what do you have attached to the jmicron PATA interface?
[07:55:56] <Ouroboros> i am trying both CDROM and a hard drive, same behavior
[07:56:08] <jmcp> then I think you're hitting 6661633
[07:56:12] <jmcp> which is still under investigation
[07:56:34] <Ouroboros> which driver would handle the pata port?
[07:56:43] <Ouroboros> is it ahci also
[07:57:05] <Ouroboros> the driver 'ahci' i mean
[07:57:27] <jmcp> I would expect that the PATA interface would use the pci-ide driver
[07:57:37] <Ouroboros> i dont think i am having the atapi problem because i am not even seeing the device
[07:58:50] <Ouroboros> hm, how can i try to manually attach the pci-ide driver?
[07:59:02] <jmcp> modload /kernel/drv/$ISADIR/pci-ide
[07:59:29] <jmcp> sorry, /platform/$ISADIR/kernel/drv/pci-ide
[07:59:37] <jmcp> gah
[07:59:40] <jmcp> not having a good day
[08:00:01] <Ouroboros> me either :)
[08:00:08] <jmcp>  /platform/{i86pc|i86xpv}/kernel/drv/$ISADIR/pci-ide
[08:00:09] <asyd> \_o<
[08:00:15] <Ouroboros> god is not letting me attach a cdrom to this machine no matter what
[08:00:21] <Ouroboros> this is like the 3rd config i am trying
[08:02:48] <Ouroboros> the other option for IDE is a sil0680 card, which works only at 2 MB/s--this probably requires some major driver hacking
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[08:04:18] <Ouroboros> i also have the same CDROM in SATA variety, but for some reason it cant be identified
[08:04:27] <Ouroboros> (on any SATA port)
[08:05:30] <Ouroboros> brb, need to reboot this machine
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[08:09:56] <trochej> coffeee
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[08:13:11] <Ouroboros> jmcp: can you paste that atapi bug again?
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[08:14:26] <jmcp> 6661633 AHCI: No ATAPI for JMicron 20360/20363 in AHCI mode
[08:14:27] <jmcp> 6648246 AHCI driver looks for its registers wrongly, blocking support for JMicron JMB363
[08:15:10] <Ouroboros> ah i see, my search query was too narrow
[08:18:21] <lkthomas> http://www.pastebin.ca/1208101
[08:18:29] <lkthomas> anyone have idea why the script can't work ?
[08:19:56] <Ouroboros> not sure about that shell, but in sh it would be 'do' instead of
[08:20:00] <Ouroboros> 'then'
[08:20:12] <lkthomas> let me try do :)
[08:20:14] <lkthomas> wait
[08:20:32] <lkthomas> same problem with do
[08:21:59] <xRaich[o]2x> try to remove the ; in line 13
[08:23:31] <lkthomas> removed, same
[08:23:39] <Ouroboros> i would format it like this: http://www.pastebin.ca/1208107
[08:23:47] <Ouroboros> (but i guess that is not the problem)
[08:24:26] <lkthomas> same problem
[08:24:32] <lkthomas> ./test.bash[11]: syntax error at line 16 : `do' unexpected
[08:24:57] <Ouroboros> well, try commenting things out until it works
[08:25:06] <Ouroboros> especially the test condition
[08:25:40] <lkthomas> that is the only section not work
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[08:26:15] <Ouroboros> actually no, it should be 'then' for if
[08:26:17] <Ouroboros> *doh*
[08:26:27] <Ouroboros> try my version with 'then'
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[08:31:48] <xRaich[o]2x> hmm maybe try it with this if-condition  [[ $date -lt (($today-$keepdays)) ]]
[08:31:58] <xRaich[o]2x> that worked over here
[08:32:35] <xRaich[o]2x> hrmm erm sorry that seems to work only in zsh#
[08:33:29] <Ouroboros> anyone ever use uniflash?
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[08:40:01] <lkthomas> xRaich[o]2x, if I want to change from script to command line, what would $date -lt (($today-$keepdays)) be ?
[08:43:13] <Ouroboros> something like this would work in sh, if [ $date -lt `expr $today - $keepdays` ]
[08:43:33] <Ouroboros> not sure in solaris as i havent succeeded in installing it yet :)
[08:46:58] <e^ipi> if you're not sure in solaris, you're not sure that it works in 'sh'
[08:47:09] <e^ipi> bash != sh
[08:47:13] <e^ipi> bash is bash.
[08:47:18] <Ouroboros> yeah we had this conversation already :)
[08:50:26] <e^ipi> Gman: around?
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[08:56:45] <Gman> e^ipi: yep
[08:59:02] <trochej> Coffee
[08:59:04] <e^ipi> i'm trying to think of talking points about zones that would interest a bunch of 19 year old CS students
[08:59:21] <e^ipi> other than "they're cheap and don't interfere with each other"
[08:59:28] <asyd> :)
[08:59:35] <trochej> e^ipi: They are nice and get you chicks
[08:59:46] <e^ipi> "women will sleep with you if you give them a zone"
[08:59:53] <asyd> ahah
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[09:00:18] <jmcp> "get out of jail free - use a zone"
[09:00:42] <asyd> you should talk about resources management
[09:01:00] <lkthomas> guys
[09:01:02] <asyd> and demonstrate a hot binding of a zone between two projects
[09:01:15] <lkthomas> I try my best to deal with a script which will remove zfs snapshot that is over 2days
[09:01:18] <lkthomas> but none of them is working
[09:01:24] <lkthomas> anyone could give me some hints please ?
[09:01:29] <e^ipi> these are teenagers that have never had any real-world experience
[09:01:43] <e^ipi> i'm trying to think of things that'd be sexy for a little home user
[09:01:44] <lkthomas> the snapshot format is storage/private_group/technical at HKT-2008 dot 09.10-11.53.59
[09:02:21] <jmcp> e^ipi: give all your friends a zone on your computer so they can develop flashy uuuub3r133t web3.0 snaplications
[09:05:57] <lkthomas> nevermind
[09:06:01] <lkthomas> finally I got a script working :)
[09:07:09] <Ouroboros> grats
[09:10:38] <Ouroboros> hm, is it possible to make a ZFS mirror root on two partitions (rather than drives)?
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[09:13:02] <Okona> yup, just attach another partition
[09:14:40] <Ouroboros> this is probably not the most realiable scheme, but better than nothing
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[09:26:52] <Gman> e^ipi: i don't really think zones are as interesting to the student developer
[09:26:55] <Gman> perhaps i'm wrong though
[09:27:18] <e^ipi> i put in a "get rich quick" note
[09:27:19] <e^ipi> :)
[09:27:45] <Gman> heh
[09:27:45] <lkthomas> e^ipi, still work on those slides for students ?
[09:27:52] <e^ipi> yes
[09:28:11] <e^ipi> because I am a masochist, i agreed to do a preso. at my university
[09:28:18] <lkthomas> just tell them lehman brothers did not use enough sun system, so that they crash
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[09:39:59] <Ouroboros> night
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[10:10:19] <asyd> a/s 20
[10:10:19] <asyd> bon, c'est pas moi
[10:10:33] <asyd> oups
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[11:19:13] <codestr0m> I'm missing something obvious..  this isn't correct hg clone ssh://anon at hg dot o.org/hg/sfw/usr/src and svn+ssh://anon at svn dot o.org/svn/companion/core/usr/src/pkgdefs isn't what I'm looking for.. I'm trying to find http://src.o.org/source/xref/sfw/usr/src/pkgdefs/SUNWgnu-coreutils/
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[11:36:44] <ofu> when will sol10u6 be released?
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[11:40:34] <tdk> urgent help needed with dual-head configuration. how do I configure one graphics card with 2 connectors (DVI, VGA)? Is this 1 card or 2 cards for Xorg?
[11:40:52] <ofu> nvidia-settigs might help you
[11:40:56] <ofu> +n
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[11:41:59] <tdk> it is not a NVIDIA card and if I start nvidia-settings it tells me that I "do not appear to be using the NVIDIA X driver."
[11:47:23] <tdk> runnning nvidia-xconfig screws the xorg.config so that it won't start after logout/login.
[11:47:36] <tdk> Any ideas????
[11:51:11] <smtms> tdk, yes, start reading about your card's driver ability to use multiple displays and hos it is configured
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[11:55:25] <tdk> smtms: the card can drive 2 monitors (under Windoze) but how do I tell OS to do the same?
[11:56:00] <smtms> tdk, by following the written instructions
[11:56:55] <tdk> smtms: if you would be so kind to shhare, which "written instructions" and where I can find them. I've spend more than a week by now, looking for them.
[11:57:40] <airjump> i search a example for ftp server config under os; Have someone a good doc link?
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[15:07:12] <codestr0m> e^ipi: would using elfedit be able to fix something like "ld.so.1: tic: fatal: libncurses.so.5: open failed: No such file or directory"
[15:08:41] <codestr0m> ldd shows libncurses.so.5 =>	 (file not found) , but the file is at /opt/foo/lib/libncurses.so.5.6
[15:09:53] <whoami08> codestr0m: did you build this program? or was it pre-built?
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[15:10:17] <codestr0m> whoami08: I built it..
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[15:10:58] <whoami08> sounds like you missed some linker flags for finding libraries outside the default lib path...
[15:12:17] <codestr0m> whoami08: you mean CFLAGS or LDFLAGS.. and solaris ld is still taking some getting used to
[15:13:07] <codestr0m> I'm also not sure if /opt/foo/usr/lib/libncurses.so.. with this is causing any problems GROUP ( /opt/foo/lib/libncurses.so )
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[15:13:33] <codestr0m> Cyrille: -R and the path to? or just -R
[15:13:40] <Cyrille> and the path
[15:13:55] <Cyrille> ^/^.
[15:14:21] <codestr0m> Cyrille: thanks. so something like -R/opt/foo/lib appended to my LDFLAGS ?
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[15:14:32] <Cyrille> codestr0m, yes, that should help.
[15:14:51] <codestr0m> I'll try. I really appreciate this. I've been having some interesting linking issues today
[15:15:35] <codestr0m> I want to avoid LD_LIBRARY_PATH at all costs
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[15:18:40] <Okona> codestr0m: how about `crle`?
[15:18:58] <codestr0m> Okona: umm. my chances of breaking everything by not knowing what I'm doing are too high :P
[15:19:30] <codestr0m> if I could edit a file and ldconfig sure, but I need to do more reading on that manaul first
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[15:22:26] <codestr0m> Cyrille: that was exactly it.. libncurses.so.5 =>       /opt/foo/lib/libncurses.so.5
[15:22:29] <codestr0m> thanks *a lot*
[15:22:39] <Cyrille> you're welcome.
[15:25:53] <codestr0m> maybe you can help me solve another problem plaguing me.. I had to append "-L/opt/foo/usr/lib" to get past one error while configuring guile, but then it dies on "checking size of char... configure: error: cannot compute sizeof (char)"
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[15:28:18] <whoami08> codestr0m: what OSS are you trying to ./configure ?
[15:28:19] <Cyrille> cannot compute sizeof(char)??? That's pretty screwed up... I'm afraid that's likely to either be an issue in the configure script, or maybe in the location where you put your extra flag which somehow generates a bad linker command.
[15:28:21] <codestr0m> Cyrille: the original error was "checking for lt_dlinit in -lltdl... no" and no amount of running aclocal/auto* crap would solve this.. only adding the linker options or LD_LIB....
[15:29:09] <Cyrille> codestr0m, does it find the libltld somewhere in its libpath?
[15:29:12] <codestr0m> whoami08: I'm trying to configure guile-1.8.5 and I've been looking around for a pkgdef or spec file.. I see it's in csw, but can't find the svn for that
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[15:29:31] <Cyrille> usually configure files have all sorts of --this-lib-is-in=/wherever/lib
[15:29:45] <Cyrille> flags that you can pass to override the default locations it looks for random stuff.
[15:30:05] <codestr0m> I looked at that and tried various things for the past day.. in-between I've been packaging other bits
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[15:30:35] <codestr0m> LD_LIB and -L/opt/foo/usr/lib solve it, but then I get this sizeof problem
[15:30:58] <whoami08> codestr0m: are you running solaris nevada?
[15:31:04] <codestr0m> whoami08: os2008*
[15:31:18] <Cyrille> maybe -L/opt/foo/usr/lib actually has some dependency which is not satisfied when it tries to link what I guess is a small test program to get sizeof(char).
[15:31:26] <codestr0m> and I'm sure it's my fault.
[15:31:46] <whoami08> codestr0m: there should be a specfile for guile in SFE, but I've no clue if it'll work on 2008.*
[15:31:52] <Cyrille> you may want to have a look at the full configure log, which is usually hidden somewhere, where you mightsee some more informative messages.
[15:31:55] <codestr0m> Cyrille: ok. good guess
[15:32:02] <Cyrille> about what it tries to compile, and why it fails.
[15:32:15] <codestr0m> whoami08: I've got the SFE spec files I'll take a quick look
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[15:34:40] <jbk> morning
[15:34:52] <victori_> morning
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[15:42:04] * codestr0m *dances*
[15:42:19] <codestr0m> whoami08: taking a look at that spec file helped a lot
[15:42:31] <codestr0m> I needed -Wl,-zignore -Wl,-zcombreloc -Wl,-Bdirect in addition, but don't ask me why
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[15:57:40] <whoami08> codestr0m: and that fixed the sizeof(char) issue?
[15:57:59] <codestr0m> whoami08: yes
[15:58:36] <codestr0m> now I get to fight with autogen and then back to my original problem :P
[15:58:53] <jmcp> codestr0m: ld(1) can tell you more about those linker options
[15:59:21] <codestr0m> jmcp: thanks
[16:02:08] <tsoome> hm, anyone familiar with zones and zfs? they are warning agains using zfs as root fs for zones, any background?
[16:02:10] <victori_> anyone have any recommendations on which software to use to monitor a system? web graphs?
[16:02:21] <_mary_kate_> victori_: www.hyperic.com
[16:02:32] <jmcp> tsoome: if you're running a recent-ish build, it shouldn't be bad
[16:02:35] <jmcp> heck, I'm doing that
[16:02:35] <asyd> tsoome: it's not supported at the moment
[16:02:36] <codestr0m> _mary_kate_: noooooes.. use rhq if you're going to do that
[16:02:45] <asyd> (in solaris, I mean)
[16:02:50] <victori_> _mary_kate_: thanks ill take a look
[16:02:57] <jmcp> asyd: "supported" in what context?
[16:02:59] <codestr0m> victori_: I have a patch for rhq which started to remove the jboss dep. you're more than welcome to have it
[16:03:09] <victori_> rhq?
[16:03:14] <asyd> jmcp: sorry, I miss the "in solaris" part :)
[16:03:17] <jmcp> heh
[16:03:30] <jmcp> tsoome: I would advise that you don't nest your zoneroots under another dataset
[16:03:39] <codestr0m> rhq-project.org .. you can actually build it with maven and debug if you have problem. rhq is the redhat hyperic that forked and became better
[16:03:44] <victori_> I was hoping for something like cacti but less intrusive install something that is a bit more integrated with solaris which I can just drop in and forget
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[16:03:51] <jmcp> tsoome: eg, DO poolname/zonerootpath, DO NOT poolname/blah/zonerootpath
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[16:03:59] <codestr0m> victori_: with my patch I was working on just drop a war in jetty
[16:04:14] <tsoome> that sounds like reasonable
[16:04:16] <victori_> I never heard of rhq, let me go google it
[16:04:38] <codestr0m> and no jboss deps. we removed the jboss-remoting and were working on porting the rest of the rh ejb extensions over to openejb
[16:04:53] <victori_> codestr0m: oh sounds neat jetty
[16:04:56] <codestr0m> last I checked they didn't even do a formal release.. so you'll have to build it yourself, but very clever guys working on it
[16:05:03] <jmcp> tsoome: I make that suggestion because I came up against 6735748 luupgrade from snv_93 to snv_95 or later fails when system has non-global zones installed
[16:05:11] <codestr0m> victori_: yeah.. it was part of the thing I was going to tie into my proxy
[16:05:18] <codestr0m> , but you're using perlbal so :P
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[16:05:50] <tsoome> well, ok since zfs as root is not supported in solaris, im fucked anyhow
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[16:06:01] <jmcp> tsoome: not until S10 Update 6
[16:06:04] <codestr0m> victori_: If you can use my patches and want a challenge.. join #openejb and I'll email you what I have
[16:06:14] <jmcp> unless you want to go the NV or OpenSolaris binary distro route
[16:06:27] <_mary_kate_> i always look for a challenge when i want a monitoring system
[16:06:30] <tsoome> cant wait it:( i have one damn cluster to be reinstalled
[16:06:34] <_mary_kate_> if it's too easy, it's just not enough
[16:06:56] <codestr0m> _mary_kate_: are you being sarcastic? and I know victori_ setup a little. deploying jbloat is to be avoided
[16:07:03] <victori_> codestr0m: I kinda dropped perlbal for haproxy due to need for session stickiness with wicket. Wicket buffers responses on the JVM heap not in the session so event-based links fail in a round robin scenario.
[16:07:08] <tsoome> was hoping to be able to use zfs for zones, but now....
[16:07:12] <codestr0m> victori_: told you :P
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[16:07:28] <victori_> codestr0m: ONE_PASS_RENDERER works though
[16:07:31] <codestr0m> haproxy can play nicely with pg as well
[16:07:33] <victori_> in a round robin scenario
[16:07:55] <victori_> but you lose out on the anti-double post feature
[16:08:03] <codestr0m> so in theory you can tie haproxy + skytools and have some interesting failover with vip's
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[16:08:41] <victori_> I am fairly happy with slony1
[16:09:31] <codestr0m> k. well. before you use hyperic. test rhq.. you can build/deploy oob w/o issues, but if you want to remove jboss that's the challenge
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[16:10:22] <victori_> codestr0m: you still contracting for hyves?
[16:10:54] <codestr0m> I could rant about those guys
[16:11:10] <codestr0m> is their cluster still averaging 20tps per node?
[16:11:13] <victori_> in pmsg if you want, I am always interested in other social networks
[16:11:41] <victori_> you tell me, you contracted for them
[16:11:46] <codestr0m> oh. I thought maybe you had some discussions with them.. and I'll keep my complaints to myself
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[16:12:27] <tsoome> i have another stupid question:) building IPMP on top of vlan device? any comments?
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[16:46:17] <TomJ> Anyone know the commands to get up/down arrow working in ksh?
[16:46:33] <TomJ> nvm
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[17:24:27] <domutaka> in web based install of solaris how do you boot the machine and get to the web server ?
[17:26:10] <_mary_kate_> web based install?  what's that?
[17:27:24] <evocallaghan> Hey
[17:27:32] <domutaka> _mary_kate_:--> some solaris installation are done through web installtion. they are through the wan link
[17:27:51] <_mary_kate_> wanboot?
[17:27:57] <domutaka> but in some sun books they don't mention
[17:28:07] <evocallaghan> Anyone got these xVM Server bits http://dlc.sun.com/xvms/xvmserver_src_EA.tgz and made a ISO yet?
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[17:39:07] <lkthomas> guys
[17:39:16] <lkthomas> does solaris be able to act as F.C SAN ?
[17:39:54] <jbk> i believe you need the comstar bits to act as a FC target
[17:40:08] <jbk> it can of course connect and be an initiator on a FC fabric or loop
[17:40:13] <jbk> and has been able to for quite some time
[17:40:35] <lkthomas> comstar bits ?!
[17:40:37] <lkthomas> what is that ?
[17:41:27] <jbk> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/comstar
[17:41:37] <jbk> basically
[17:41:49] <jbk> it's what will make a box running opensolaris act like a storage array
[17:42:50] <domutaka> my sir told me that sparc machines after beng used for about 5 years have resale value of 10% of original . is it true.
[17:43:08] <seanmcg> your 'sir' ?
[17:43:21] <domutaka> even a pc have resale of min. 1/4 of original
[17:43:31] <_mary_kate_> seanmcg: his sire!
[17:43:50] <domutaka> seanmcg:--> yes , we in india have someting like *respect*
[17:44:13] <jbk> but not quite the same?
[17:44:56] <TomJ> domutaka: you have it the wrong way around
[17:45:00] <TomJ> a PC would have a resale value of 10%
[17:45:04] <TomJ> a SPARC would be more like 1/4
[17:45:11] <jbk> but that's a separate issue, 'sir' in that context doesn't give any information as to who the person telling you that is
[17:45:21] <lkthomas> jbk, does comstar for F.C stable enough for production use yet ?
[17:45:23] <Fullmoon> Does OpenSolaris have file system change notifications?
[17:45:25] 
[17:45:33] <TomJ> _mary_kate_: that's 5 years old?
[17:45:38] <_mary_kate_> TomJ: no, but extrapolate ;)
[17:45:47] <TomJ> well it's exponential :)
[17:45:57] <jbk> probably not yet... i'd wait until after integration
[17:46:04] <jbk> Fullmoon: yes
[17:46:04] <TomJ> but actually yeah it's probably a lot less than 25%
[17:46:12] 
[17:46:28] <TomJ> anyway, sparcs hold value much more than PCs
[17:46:31] <Fullmoon> jbk: Fen?
[17:46:54] <jbk> it's through event ports (in userland) iirc
[17:47:29] <_mary_kate_> Fullmoon: http://blogs.sun.com/praks/entry/file_events_notification
[17:47:44] <Fullmoon> Great, I will look into it :)
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[17:48:33] <TomJ> _mary_kate_: I can't remmeber what your nick used to be?
[17:48:39] <_mary_kate_> TomJ: flyingparchment
[17:48:44] <TomJ> oh yeah
[17:49:04] <lkthomas> jbk, were you talking to me ?
[17:49:34] <_mary_kate_> TomJ: or zwitter, larne, twincest, _syphilis_, consanguinity, etc ;)
[17:50:18] <domutaka> why sparc even exists if other ecoomical x86 are there. i haven't found any much difference. and the IBM's roadrunner isn't also using sun's hardware.
[17:50:37] <_mary_kate_> domutaka: which x86 hardware can have CPUs added and removed without being turned off?
[17:50:53] <_mary_kate_> domutaka: which x86 system scales to 144 CPUs?
[17:51:03] <oxygene> domutaka: because x86 was still a running joke (no, more like a crawling joke) back when sparc was already mature and 64bit
[17:51:13] <tsoome> x86 is not "ecoomical";)
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[17:51:31] <domutaka> so why is x86 covered much market ?
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[17:51:55] <whoami08> domutaka: you can ask the same about windoze...
[17:52:01] <_mary_kate_> some people only need 8 non-hot-swappable CPUs
[17:52:06] <_mary_kate_> for those people, x86 is great
[17:52:11] <Cyrille> if this is the start of a discussion about technical merit versus market success, you can stop right there.
[17:52:16] <Aria> They're cheap.
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[17:52:29] <TomJ> cheap and pretty fast
[17:52:51] <whoami08> Aria: good point, sparc wasn't cheap back then...
[17:52:56] <TomJ> whoami08: it is now?
[17:52:59] <letz_> i have installed pre-release OpenSolaris 2008.11 v97, now v98 is there, is there any way to update the instaled version?
[17:53:00] <TomJ> 8 or 16 core x 2.5ghz CPU is easily achievable in x86, even for people with no money like me
[17:53:16] <oxygene> domutaka: because "worse is better". sparc was expensive and excellent, x86 was cheap and good enough
[17:53:17] <Aria> letz_, Yes, using the pkg command. You probably want image-update.
[17:53:17] <TomJ> the IO probably sucks, but for app servers that doesn't matter nearly so much
[17:53:49] <letz_> Aria: what command? "pkg image-update" ??
[17:53:52] <whoami08> TomJ: don't you think so? you can get a CMT processor for a very low price...
[17:54:04] <TomJ> what is CMT?
[17:54:11] <Aria> letz_, Yeah
[17:54:17] <whoami08> T1, coolthreads etc.
[17:54:20] <asyd> TomJ: chip multithreading
[17:54:22] <whoami08> niagara
[17:54:26] <asyd> something like that
[17:54:54] <_mary_kate_> whoami08: but CMT isn't an end in itself, the question is whether a CMT CPU can outperform a similarly-priced x86 system
[17:54:55] <domutaka> Cyrille:--> ok . i would not like to start any discussion { i am sory if i done that } . but if you want to say more i am on #discuss_opensolaris
[17:54:56] <TomJ> true, but the box still costs the same or more as a 8 core x 2.5ghz x64 box.   64 threads at 1.2ghz  versus 8 cores at 2.5ghz, I'm pretty sure the latter will out crank it
[17:54:59] <evocallaghan> ChipMultiThreading
[17:55:10] <TomJ> i havent tested this, I admit. I'd like to, if sun gives me a free box to test on (which Sun India may be doing)
[17:55:18] <_mary_kate_> TomJ: try+buy
[17:55:31] * evocallaghan likes POWER6 :D
[17:55:47] <whoami08> cell 4tw :-p
[17:55:58] <evocallaghan> I have a CBEA here
[17:56:06] <evocallaghan> I did some ASM for it :D
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[17:56:46] <creative83> Hello everybody.
[17:56:48] <Cyrille> domutaka, I was just joking, it's just that from Betamax vs VHS, whatever bus IBM used to use vs ISA, to Windows vs anything else, there's a long list of solutions which were technically superior but lost in the marketplace because after some threshold of features, it's more presentation and marketing which does the trick.
[17:56:54] <TomJ> we tried try+buy last year on a x4500 but failed the credit check as we're too new.  but I'm hoping they'll just loan us one, we're selling into big carriers and our deployment uses $300+k of hardware at a time, so it's in their interests.  Sun India already offered to give us an entire rack of (ssh accessible) x64 gear to do capacity planning on prior to deployment.  I just need the time to build the relationship
[17:57:00] <creative83> I think I just somehow broke pkg
[17:57:04] <evocallaghan> So, no one has done somekind of ISO of the early access to xVM yet?
[17:57:09] <_mary_kate_> Cyrille: i thought MCA lost because it was proprietary and IBM wouldn't tell anyone how it worked
[17:57:12] <creative83> I did a pkg refresh and then a pkg install SUNWsudo
[17:57:17] <creative83> Everything worked fine.
[17:57:34] <creative83> But now the pkg command has a relocation error
[17:57:51] <Cyrille> _mary_kate_, true, that was a big part of the problem, and it was more expensive, but people still acknowledged that it was better designed and ran faster.
[17:58:01] <creative83> MD5Init: referenced symbol not found
[17:58:05] <evocallaghan> IBM CBEA is acturly really nice, but its hard to program for and can't be portable
[17:58:08] <creative83> Any clues on how to fix this?
[17:58:36] <evocallaghan> It has to be programmed *for* the CBEA due to how the runtime libary makes use of the SPE's
[17:59:17] <evocallaghan> What ever happened to Alpha and MIPS
[17:59:32] <_mary_kate_> MIPS is doing fine.  Alpha was bought by HP and discontinued in favour of Itanium
[17:59:38] <evocallaghan> Can't believe MIPS died on the desktop
[18:00:13] <evocallaghan> Ah, I'm not taking about Freescales MIPS product range in phones and such. I mean on the Desktop
[18:00:24] <evocallaghan> SGI and then it was all gone.. :/
[18:01:02] <evocallaghan> Did SGI sell off MIPS Tech after it used Linux to avoid surtin death ?
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[18:03:22] <tsoome> tbh, its sad intel is killing all other CPU makers:(
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[18:03:57] <Aria> A bit. There's a lot of good designs out there.
[18:03:57] <domutaka> Cyrille:--> well , what you said leaves no place for any further discussion.
[18:04:04] <Aria> Though I must say, Intel has some nice stuff...
[18:04:51] <tsoome> ofc they do
[18:05:19] <creative83> Anyone ever broke their pkg?
[18:05:28] <Aria> ofc?
[18:05:33] <creative83> Don't know how to fix it...
[18:05:40] <whoami08> creative83: not with pkg refresh && pkg install SUNWsudo
[18:05:58] <tsoome> ye, you cant grow that big by selling only crap:D
[18:06:04] <e^ipi> creative83: sudo? what kind of hairbrained hacked together piece of crap OS do you think you're on?. pfexec . RBAC > *
[18:06:18] * evocallaghan has a great idea
[18:06:21] <oxygene> e^ipi: maybe opensolaris (SUNWsudo)
[18:06:25] <houst0n-> ick sudo
[18:06:30] <e^ipi> i know it exists.
[18:06:33] <evocallaghan> Lets all make Solaris crap so that more people use it :D
[18:06:33] <tsoome>  /flee
[18:06:35] <e^ipi> it shouldn't .
[18:06:40] <creative83> e^ipi: I just needed a pkg to test the capabilities of zoneadm -z <zone> detach and attach
[18:06:44] <whoami08> creative83: http://www.c0t0d0s0.org/archives/4844-Less-known-Solaris-features-pfexec.html
[18:06:47] <oxygene> evocallaghan: seems to be the plan
[18:06:48] <creative83> e^ipi: And sudo was first in place
[18:06:58] <creative83> Sure I know pfexec
[18:07:09] <houst0n-> type=role for root in user_attr is.. horrible, but I'm sure you all know that
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[18:07:29] <evocallaghan> Amazing, Linux gets more crap and more people start using it.. ?
[18:07:40] <oxygene> evocallaghan: seems to be a race to the bottom :)
[18:07:40] <houst0n-> whoever decided you can't login as root by default to an opensolaris box should be drug tested
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[18:07:56] <whoami08> houst0n-: why?
[18:07:57] <evocallaghan> Irix got good around 6 and people *stopped* using it
[18:08:18] <creative83> I'm familiar with pfexec. What I wanted to do is test the capability of zoneadm when it comes to packages.
[18:08:39] <creative83> And sudo was the first package I thought of. However. It broke my pkg
[18:08:46] <evocallaghan> I would say XFS is some of the best code in the Linux kernel oxygene, apart from some of the improvments IBM did
[18:08:53] <_mary_kate_> e^ipi: why shouldn't sudo exist?  you don't think it's useful to have common functionality in a mixed OS environment?
[18:08:58] <houst0n-> whoami08: Few reasons: 1) what happens if your users shell gets fscked somehow, root uses /sbin/sh (which is static) or falls back to it if the shell can't start, your user account doesn't 2) it's insecure, you can get root access on my machine if i leave it unattended by typing pfexec sh
[18:09:08] <oxygene> _mary_kate_: so where's win32 on solaris?
[18:09:18] <_mary_kate_> houst0n-: you can have root as a role without allowing anyone to pfexec
[18:09:27] <houst0n-> whoami08: It jsut doesn't feel right either. Unix has a root account, you should be able to login as it, it's fundemental
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[18:09:31] <_mary_kate_> in fact, you can allow pfexec without having root as a role, they're orthogonal
[18:09:37] <houst0n-> _mary_kate_: I know this.
[18:09:40] <e^ipi> houst0n-: /bin/sh hasn't been static since S9
[18:09:41] <whoami08> houst0n-: 1) there are no static bins in solaris10+ 2) don't leave it unattend; use a screensaver w/ passwd or log out
[18:09:42] <houst0n-> I've configured rbac many time
[18:09:57] <e^ipi> $ ldd /bin/sh | wc -l 9
[18:10:01] <e^ipi> 9
[18:10:02] <TomJ> houst0n-: /sbin/sh is not static
[18:10:07] <TomJ> no such thing on Solaris I believe
[18:10:11] <_mary_kate_> houst0n-: then i don't follow your point 2).  having root as a role doesn't allow anyone to pfexec..
[18:10:25] <houst0n-> _mary_kate_: I'm talking about by default
[18:10:38] <houst0n-> _mary_kate_: the default user that caiman creates has primary administrator rights
[18:10:45] <whoami08> houst0n-: well someone has to be able to admin the box :)
[18:10:49] <creative83> So any clues on how SUNWsudo broke pkg? And how to fix it.
[18:10:50] <houst0n-> so if i leave my machine unattended, by default, it can be owned instantly
[18:10:57] <tsoome> there is no use of pfexec if you have no rigths assigned;)
[18:11:13] <houst0n-> TomJ: Appears so, I was wrong =)
[18:11:33] <e^ipi> _mary_kate_: actually I think a sudo config file translation layer and a symlink would be a pretty cool way to solve the problem
[18:11:49] <oxygene> houst0n-: as far as I know, caiman is currently only used for some alpha-esque desktop distribution
[18:12:06] <houst0n-> oxygene: Correct, I meant opensolaris the distro
[18:12:09] <oxygene> houst0n-: ie. file a bug, don't run on critical servers (or any critical machine at all)
[18:12:20] <houst0n-> I don't have it installed
[18:12:42] <oxygene> if it hurts to have that box owned, any caiman-installed system is very likely the wrong choice
[18:13:52] <e^ipi> _mary_kate_: that is, if the RBAC subsystem could parse sudo config files and know how to do the right thing... keep famiilarity and cross-platform compat
[18:14:30] <creative83> Another question. Are there any other channels where I can get some real help with 200805? Not just bashing? I feel bad beeing a Sun Ambassador, telling students to use this channel if they have troubles with os and then seeing this...
[18:15:00] <houst0n-> Hey, it's not really bashing, critisicim is a good thing (most of the time)
[18:15:08] <creative83> Sure it is.
[18:15:49] <creative83> But it seems like I started a philosophical discussion with my question ;)
[18:16:03] <whoami08> creative83: huh if that's bashing don't ever join a #FreeBSD chan...
[18:16:15] <tsoome> first thing I tell to ppl attempting a new system is to forgot any current habits and be openminded to see new.
[18:16:16] <oxygene> creative83: there once was #os200805 or something to that effect. this channel is about the entirety of the opensolaris ecosystem, and 200805 is the result of a project that began with some highly opinionated debates ;)
[18:16:22] <creative83> whoami08: Okay ;) I'll keep that in mind.
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[18:17:23] <houst0n-> whoami08: FreeBSD condom machine: http://munk.me.uk/~kyu/DSC00085.JPG
[18:17:25] <creative83> oxygene: I heard of that. That you had to split off a #os200805 channel because some people didn't like it...
[18:17:30] <houst0n-> Spotted it in a pub in my town ;)
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[18:20:04] <evocallaghan> So what your saying is wear protection while touching FreeBSD ?
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[18:20:33] <houst0n-> FreeBSD - now with "Bunnylugs" vibrators
[18:20:34] <oxygene> creative83: it's not very useful to try to support two entirely different systems (with a confusing name scheme to top it off) at the same place
[18:20:59] <houst0n-> afaik it sells handcuffs, inflatable sheep etc
[18:20:59] <evocallaghan> Oh really.. That must be in version 8 then :p
[18:21:01] <TomJ> I am in a shell part way through an install that failed due to bad FLAR.  I want to rcp some files out of this install. I can network access the box, and I have enabled rlogin, but I can't rsh in as root ('not on system console') and I can't rsh in as another usser ('system maintenance in progress'). how can I solve either of those?
[18:21:07] <houst0n-> along with zfs! amazing
[18:21:40] <_mary_kate_> TomJ: i believe you need to (un?)comment CONSOLE in /etc/default/something to allow remove rsh
[18:21:53] <_mary_kate_> (sorry, never actually had to do that, i'm a bit vague on the details)
[18:22:02] <tsoome> yep thats it.
[18:22:03] <TomJ> thanks mary
[18:22:17] <creative83> oxygene: That makes sense for me. I just tried to test the capabilities of detaching and attaching zones when it comes to packet mgmt. I could also have used top or another package. But in fact, SUNWsudo broke my pkg
[18:22:17] <TomJ> I also realised that because I have most of hte install I have /a/usr/bin/ssh too :)
[18:22:28] <tsoome> root access is limited to console only
[18:22:42] <TomJ> so I can copy out from the buggered install, rather than trying to copy into it
[18:23:05] <oxygene> creative83: I think there's a known bug with regard to pkg in zones, but I don't use pkg, so you'll have to look elsewhere for details
[18:23:23] <tsoome> or create correct flar and reinstall;)
[18:23:36] <creative83> oxygene: Okay. Thank you. Maybe it wasn't a good idea anyways to use pkg with zones.
[18:24:36] <creative83> I don't think pkg supports things like SUNW_ALLZONES and SUNW_THIS_ZONE. Or does it?
[18:25:05] <oxygene> creative83: my opinion about how "good idea" and "pkg" relate might be considered bashing, so no comment..
[18:25:58] <creative83> oxygene: Why? It was MY bad idea ;)
[18:27:52] <creative83> And no, I will not consider it bashing. Maybe it's even a good tip for solaris n00bs like me
[18:28:08] <TomJ> he meant he would bash pkg, not you
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[18:30:30] <whoami08> creative83: do other crypto "consumer" work? you wrote smth about that pkg dies with an MD5Init error...
[18:31:11] <creative83> whoami08: One sec.
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[18:31:37] <creative83> TomJ: As long as Ian isn't here. Why not? ;)
[18:31:43] <whoami08> creative83: digest(1) for example
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[18:32:36] <creative83> md5sum works
[18:32:54] <creative83> digest also works
[18:33:19] <creative83> I guess it's a python problem as pkg is written in python. mho
[18:34:28] <creative83> Maybe the md5 python package is broken somehow
[18:35:16] <whoami08> how? you only installed sudo; this should have touched anything else...
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[18:35:36] <creative83> whoami08: It was installing like 10 other pkgs
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[18:37:02] <whoami08> hm is it possible to verify installed pkgs with pkg? (it is with rpm hehe)
[18:37:32] <creative83> the pkg bin doesn't work at all anymore
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[18:40:24] <whoami08> hm are the opensolaris binaries signed, too? try elfsign verify -v cmd
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[18:41:28] <creative83> Unable to open it as an ELF object.
[18:41:55] <TomJ> I'm realy confused, isn't the Solaris install meant to ask me where I want to install from ? e.g. NFS, FTP, etc.  cos it just seems to be installing from DVD always, with no option to specify another location for the files
[18:42:31] <TomJ> maybe I dreamt the other options
[18:42:51] <tsoome> depends on installer i guess
[18:42:58] <TomJ> this is the console installer
[18:43:01] <tsoome> usually it does, yes
[18:43:03] <TomJ> maybe it's the GUI one that has more options
[18:43:06] <TomJ> that would suck enormously
[18:43:28] <creative83> TomJ: I remember the console installer having asked me about where to install from.
[18:43:34] <oxygene> TomJ: is the NIC configured?
[18:43:43] <TomJ> yes NIC is configured fine
[18:43:50] <whoami08> TomJ: like this http://www.blastwave.org/docs/step-043.html ? :)
[18:44:15] <TomJ> yeah! exactly like that
[18:44:21] <TomJ> why the hell isnt it asking me that
[18:44:25] <creative83> Hm. I'll reset my system... Maybe it helps.
[18:44:30] <creative83> Thanks anyways
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[18:56:47] <jbk> has sun announced a date for s10u6 yet?
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[18:57:19] <codestr0m> why is everyone asking about s10u6..
[18:57:29] <codestr0m> I mean.. it's like 10 people a day. put it in the topic please :P
[18:58:03] <TomJ> ZFS ROOT ZFS ROOT ZFS ROOT ZFS ROOT
[18:58:04] * TomJ comes
[18:58:05] <TomJ> sorry
[18:58:11] <TomJ> jbk: just 'mid october' I think
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[18:58:30] <jbk> ok
[18:58:39] <TomJ> it's all over sun.com now though so it's very imminent
[18:58:58] <TomJ> I wish I hadn't just upgraded all my servers to 5/08, literally the day before they gave the u6 release date
[18:59:02] <TomJ> I thought it wasnt coming for months
[18:59:04] <codestr0m> I mean. you'd think they just released the new version of mac osx for how excited everyone is :P
[18:59:21] <turtle> u6 will have zfs root? neato.
[18:59:23] <TomJ> codestr0m: this is far more important
[18:59:25] <e^ipi> nah, this is cooler
[18:59:41] <codestr0m> umm.. SXCE has had zfs root for how long?
[18:59:51] <_mary_kate_> codestr0m: ~build 90
[18:59:57] <_mary_kate_> (in a usable, supported form)
[19:00:09] <e^ipi> codestr0m: SXCE isn't made for production
[19:00:20] <whoami08> I still have those horror stories in my mind where ppl where unable to restore from zfs send "backups"
[19:00:27] <codestr0m> e^ipi: made or intended..
[19:00:32] <e^ipi> either
[19:00:45] <balbirs> if I take the output of prtvtoc of any slice then it will be disk architecture of all the slice ? I mean.. I need to take backup of VTOC of only one slice not all the individual slice ?
[19:00:47] <TomJ> yeah SXCE is fun to learn about new stuff, but it's not going on my servers
[19:01:12] <_mary_kate_> balbirs: usually you use s2, and the vtoc describes the whole disk (all slices)
[19:02:46] <balbirs> all right.. thanks :)
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[19:26:19] <Yorlik> Do the vmware tools for esxi work on nevada98 as well ?
[19:27:18] <TomJ> you're highly likely to need to do some hacking
[19:27:36] <TomJ> you often need to do that even when you go from e.g. Solaris 10 U3 to Solaris 10 U4 or U5, let alone a late NV
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[19:28:55] <Yorlik> On my boot screen I saw xvm - does thi mean xen is installed and ready to host with nc98 ? I did a full install. And if yes - would I be able to run ws2003r2 on it (VT enabled CPUs)
[19:29:09] <Yorlik> nc98=nv98
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[19:40:48] <seanmcg> Yorlik, yes xen is there, you need to boot with the xen/xvm kernel though.  Then if your hardware is HVM capable it'll be able to run ws2003 in a guest
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[19:41:10] <bigjohnto>  is there an opensource of dtpad (Text Editor) ?
[19:41:57] <seanmcg> gvim, xemacs, emacs, gedit, ...
[19:42:32] <Stric> Hm.. With a machine that has svm/metadb stuff, if I boot net.. how can I "activate" the ones from disk?
[19:42:49] <Yorlik> seanmcg: Will I need Solaris to administer the VMs then or is there something like a client, like for vmware. Actually I installed nv98 on top of esxi, but I wonder if I should change that - I'm completely new to xen and only used vmware so far.
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[19:43:06] <_mary_kate_> Yorlik: you want to run xen under esx?
[19:43:11] <Yorlik> No
[19:43:21] <Yorlik> Either xen == new install or esxi
[19:43:39] <Yorlik> If I use xen, I'll need to go to the datacenter and install there.
[19:43:52] <Yorlik> I loved that remot nv98 install from my local dvd ...
[19:43:55] <seanmcg> theres the vir* commands, virsh being the main one.  these are on the box, no vmware like client to manage from another box i think.
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[19:44:34] <Yorlik> I think I'll try to get the vmware tools running on nv98 and go on with that. its so damned convenient
[19:44:37] <seanmcg> and of course the xm command
[19:45:17] <seanmcg> I've used vmware and xen/xvm to about the same amount.  prefer the xvm/xen tools :)
[19:46:30] <Yorlik> Why ? Could you throw a quick comparison ?
[19:47:12] <Yorlik> Now it seems I got my first serious problem - the xserver hangs and I only see a clock .... just after a plain install (text mode interactive)
[19:47:48] <Yorlik> CPUs show no activity ...
[19:51:19] <seanmcg> xen/xvm seems easier to automate guest installs/migrations.
[19:51:26] <seanmcg> .. from scripts
[19:51:58] <seanmcg> Yorlik, what did you install ?  SXCE98 ?
[19:52:06] <Yorlik> nv98
[19:52:13] <Yorlik> on top of esxi
[19:52:25] <seanmcg> you mean SXCE998 ?
[19:52:29] <Yorlik> yes.
[19:52:32] <seanmcg> s/99/9
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[19:53:05] <Yorlik> What I liked a lot was, that the vmware install in the datacenter was 10 minutes or so - the rest I could do from home.
[19:53:08] <seanmcg> can you move the mouse ?
[19:53:10] <Yorlik> yes
[19:53:28] <Yorlik> I restarted the x server  -- waiting for things to come up
[19:53:36] <seanmcg> perhaps its slow under exsi ?
[19:53:43] <seanmcg> s/under/ontopof
[19:54:16] <Yorlik> x is always slow on esxi - thats why i need the vmware tools to run.
[19:55:03] <seanmcg> ssh -X into the solaris ?  run X applications remotely
[19:55:11] <seanmcg> well display them remotely.
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[19:55:46] <Yorlik> Seems stuff is coming up after I cancelled time adjustment.
[19:56:03] <Yorlik> seanmcg: I'll use vncserver over ssh
[19:56:20] <Yorlik> I'll most likely completely disable native x
[19:56:57] <seanmcg> yup, if your running solaris on a server, don't need a gui login :)
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[20:03:54] <codestr0m> seanmcg: some people are used to being window's `admins`
[20:04:25] <codestr0m> and what the results of `admins` returns is usually something less than or equal to 0
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[20:05:27] <seanmcg> if it can be scripted, script it :)
[20:05:37] <seanmcg> s/script/automated/g too
[20:08:37] <Yorlik> What I like about the console is  - you have every action logged in .bash_history and see how you messed up stuff
[20:09:31] <Yorlik> Does anyone have experience with vmware tools for sxce98 ?  I found something for build 64 only
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[20:10:35] <seanmcg> bash(any shell) history limits to a max though.. screen/script(1)/xterm+l/dtterm+l for logging
[20:11:02] <seanmcg> Yorlik, sorry never used vmware tools on sxce, just install sxce ontop of it.
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[20:19:02] <Yorlik> seanmcg: Already did .. but X  is awfully slow without the tools ... I think I'll just make a snapshot and try
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[20:28:14] <codestr0m> SS12 is more strict?  improper member use: buf     sendto(sp->fds[sidx], packet->buf, packet->size, 0, sp->addr[sidx], SA_LEN(sp->addr[sidx]))
[20:29:36] <seanmcg> aye, codestr0m I've seen SS12 be more strict
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[20:36:58] <whoami08> codestr0m: a more strict compiler results mostly in cleaner code :)
[20:37:34] <whoami08> I also like lint, but who's casting (void) nowadays to printf() etc.?!
[20:37:49] <e^ipi> it's strict, and you can't putback to ON with any warnings or lint
[20:38:05] <codestr0m> whoami08: I'm not complaining.. I'm just missing something obvious 645..   http://rafb.net/p/LCWjQK89.html
[20:38:14] <codestr0m> e^ipi: that's good
[20:38:45] <seanmcg> e^pi or folks get more creative around the lint warnings :)
[20:39:39] <_mary_kate_> sadly lots of old code is full of lint and compiler warnings and extremely dubious code
[20:39:45] <_mary_kate_> (have a look at the acct userland some day..)
[20:40:07] <jbk> codestr0m: what is the definition of struct rtp_packet?
[20:41:02] <e^ipi> seanmcg: and completely ignore the one in floatingpoint.h
[20:41:22] <jbk> heh
[20:41:26] <seanmcg> :-)
[20:41:30] <jbk> yeah i saw that after i finally get ON compiled :)
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[20:42:45] <benxx> hi just now i finished installing O.S on my virtualbox
[20:42:46] <codestr0m> jbk: http://rafb.net/p/QGFaHn52.html
[20:43:34] <jbk> try using (const void *)packet->buf
[20:44:12] <e^ipi> i was confused the first time i saw that one
[20:44:19] <e^ipi> "... ? but i didn't even touch that file"
[20:45:01] <seanmcg> which was part of the problem, no-one had for years and a new lint spots things, right ?
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[20:48:48] <codestr0m> jbk: nope same error... I think I'll get it though
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[20:49:52] <jbk> hmm maybe (const void *)&packet->buf
[20:52:01] <codestr0m> jbk: same.. and is there anything wrong with line 102 from rtp.h (my 2nd pastie a http://rafb.net/p/QGFaHn52.html )
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[20:54:38] <jbk> hmm
[20:54:49] <jbk> i wonder if you need to name the union
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[20:57:25] <codestr0m> yeah, but what to name it :P
[20:57:42] <jbk> *shrug*
[20:57:46] <jbk> call it 'bob' if you want :)
[20:57:56] * codestr0m names union jbk
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[21:15:23] <grabby_singleman> hi I want to burn an ISO image on opensolaris
[21:15:27] <grabby_singleman> what is an easy way?
[21:15:38] <e^ipi> man cdrw
[21:15:57] <codestr0m> jbk: naming it and then pkt_data.buf fixed it btw
[21:16:15] <jbk> ahh
[21:16:21] <codestr0m> grabby_singleman: go to genunix.org and pull the latest global iso.. and have fun. it's a livecd with install to disk option
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[21:16:38] <codestr0m> grabby_singleman: or did you mean buring a cd..
[21:17:05] <codestr0m> click places and the click cd / dvd creator
[21:17:09] <grabby_singleman> yah Im on 2008.05 opensolaris
[21:17:46] <grabby_singleman> oddly i remember last week when I downlaoded a cd iso some utility popped up in gnome here for it that was nice looking gui but I dont know where it went
[21:18:23] <grabby_singleman> anyone know name of gnome cd burn utility?
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[21:19:37] <seanmcg> grabby_singleman, nautilus the filemanager should be able
[21:20:59] <codestr0m> grabby_singleman: try right-clicking on the iso
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[21:27:34] <grabby_singleman> ah its under places in the menu on top of gnome
[21:27:39] <grabby_singleman> cd/dvd creator
[21:27:48] <grabby_singleman> ah the world is wonderful again
[21:27:49] <grabby_singleman> :)
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[21:29:18] <grabby_singleman> need to open filesystem adn right click cd creator
[21:29:21] <grabby_singleman> bam its burning now
[21:29:23] <grabby_singleman> :)
[21:29:34] <grabby_singleman> I love free software
[21:29:48] <grabby_singleman> I look forward to cherishing the brilliance of opensolaris
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[21:38:19] <grabby_singleman> can a soalris zone support centos 5.2? and can centos 5.2 running in a solaris zone then run xen to create its own virtual servers?
[21:38:36] <_mary_kate_> grabby_singleman: no and no.  and why would you run xen under centos anyway?  solaris supports xen
[21:38:44] <grabby_singleman> oh ok
[21:38:49] <_mary_kate_> (there is some experimental linux 2.6 support, but i'm not sure it's usable)
[21:38:58] <grabby_singleman> im not sure work will let em use opensolaris
[21:39:04] <grabby_singleman> me-
[21:39:16] <Yorlik> Seems like vmware tools for esxi work flawlessly on sxce98 - i didn't tweak anything and everything looks fine so far.
[21:39:19] <grabby_singleman> I think I have to kill this box, repartition, and dual boot
[21:39:52] <e^ipi> grabby_singleman: you can also just not do that, and run whatever under xvm
[21:40:05] <grabby_singleman> there is no way to repartition my current 2008.05 opensolaris box to take half the drive and give to centos is tehre?
[21:40:08] <e^ipi> id est, have solaris be the host OS, and your other os' be the guests
[21:40:13] <grabby_singleman> save me redupdating opensol
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[21:40:25] <_mary_kate_> grabby_singleman: why don't you just run solaris under xen under centos then?
[21:40:32] <e^ipi> or that, too
[21:40:35] <_mary_kate_> dual booting is a pretty lame solution nowadays
[21:40:38] <grabby_singleman> xvm?
[21:40:42] <grabby_singleman> waat?
[21:40:45] <_mary_kate_> xvm = solaris xen
[21:40:45] <e^ipi> grabby_singleman: xen
[21:40:51] <grabby_singleman> oh
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[21:41:07] <e^ipi> there's no difference whatsoever... xvm = xen 3.1
[21:41:18] <grabby_singleman> oh ok
[21:41:36] <grabby_singleman> what is the difference between zons and xvm?
[21:41:42] <grabby_singleman> zones-
[21:41:43] <e^ipi> speaking of xen... anyone know what's up with the ability to give xen raw pci devices ?
[21:41:47] <e^ipi> can it be done?
[21:41:57] <e^ipi> grabby_singleman: zones are not virtualization, they're like BSD jails on crack
[21:42:04] <grabby_singleman> oh
[21:42:05] <bda> Please. On meth.
[21:42:08] <bda> woosh!
[21:42:24] <grabby_singleman> so what are reasons to use zones over xvm?
[21:42:27] <grabby_singleman> or vice versa
[21:42:33] <e^ipi> grabby_singleman: they're super lightweight
[21:42:44] <TomJ> you would use xvm if you need diferent operating systems, e.g. windows, linux, etc
[21:42:46] <e^ipi> grabby_singleman: they take up almost no resources at all except for the apps you run it it
[21:42:48] <grabby_singleman> but fi your app in a zoen bombs ti wont bomb the box?
[21:42:48] <TomJ> you would use zones for mostly everything else.
[21:43:02] <e^ipi> grabby_singleman: nope
[21:43:08] <bda> Well, LDOMs. :)
[21:43:12] <grabby_singleman> thats the main reason for zones right?
[21:43:14] <e^ipi> grabby_singleman: you set resource contstraints on it
[21:43:29] <e^ipi> *you can
[21:43:40] <grabby_singleman> to limit stuff, but what about the zoen having its own ip?
[21:43:43] <e^ipi> yep
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[21:44:02] <e^ipi> from inside, a zone looks like a whole different machine
[21:44:10] <grabby_singleman> oh ok
[21:44:21] <grabby_singleman> so its ip is liek a virtual ip on one physical nic?
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[21:44:32] <e^ipi> in reality it's just some kernel voodoo that makes it so one set of processes can't interfere with another
[21:44:43] <grabby_singleman> sounds cool to me
[21:44:48] <bda> Zones are great.
[21:44:55] <grabby_singleman> jeesh maybe in my startup corp ill use opensolaris not linux
[21:45:12] <e^ipi> go for it
[21:45:24] <grabby_singleman> as experienced computers guys how do you guys enable reliability for webapps?
[21:45:41] <e^ipi> enable reliability ?
[21:45:46] <grabby_singleman> I think having everything on one box at least gives me the right palce to cehck for problems and less monitoring
[21:45:55] <grabby_singleman> having thigns on multiple boxes can get unmanageable
[21:46:22] <e^ipi> *cough* http://www.sun.com/software/products/xvmopscenter/
[21:46:27] <e^ipi> sun thought of that...
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[21:47:10] <whoami08> wasn't xvm about having multiple things on one box? :)
[21:47:26] <e^ipi> also... http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/cluster/index.xml
[21:47:43] <bda> whoami08: There are several technologies which accomplish that goal.
[21:47:52] <e^ipi> whoami08: logically partitioned ...
[21:49:18] <grabby_singleman> can xvm be used to create a cloud of resoruces from 2 nodes or more?
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[21:49:36] <grabby_singleman> liek can you have 5 boxes be used as one using xvm?
[21:49:53] <grabby_singleman> or is it mainly for one big box, then make little virtual servers from it
[21:49:59] <e^ipi> grabby_singleman: no, you'd use something like solaris cluster or grid engines for that
[21:50:15] <bda> Hm, this interview has gone on way longer than I expected it to.
[21:50:18] <e^ipi> xvm is for taking one machine and making it appear/work as a bunch of machines
[21:50:28] <grabby_singleman> solaris cluster?
[21:50:31] <grabby_singleman> hmm
[21:50:33] <e^ipi> you can then take those machines, and run cluster across them
[21:50:37] <e^ipi> "machines"
[21:50:56] <e^ipi> so if your app runs away with one domU, you just kill it and restart it
[21:51:03] <e^ipi> reliability on one box
[21:51:34] <e^ipi> if hardware dies on that one box the whole thing collapses though, but you can run it across two machines the same way and get some redundancy out of that
[21:51:51] <e^ipi> or use sparc and just swap out the broken parts for working parts
[21:52:34] <norman> sparc has hotswap on all hardware?
[21:52:49] <e^ipi> no, /some/ sparc has hotswap on a bunch of hardware
[21:52:56] <norman> :)
[21:53:06] <jbk> generally the more expensive the hardare, the more you can hotswap
[21:53:35] <norman> reminds me of system z from ibm, there you can hotswap cpus and ram
[21:54:14] <grabby_singleman> nice
[21:54:25] <e^ipi> you can hotswap cpu & ram on some sparc boxes
[21:54:29] <grabby_singleman> see I have one hp storage box
[21:54:41] <grabby_singleman> and a lot of small dl140 boxes available
[21:54:48] <grabby_singleman> its a tomcat and mysql app
[21:55:20] <grabby_singleman> Im scratching my head about if I need to run the mysql on the storage box, problably eh, since it buggers the db to run over nfs or virtualizaed?
[21:55:32] <_mary_kate_> take 2 DL140s and cluster them with the storage for a database, take another two and make them an active/passive load balancer, and use the rest as app servers
[21:56:08] <grabby_singleman> I think I have a netscaler to do the load balancing
[21:56:31] <grabby_singleman> how do I cluster the dl140s with the 320S storage?
[21:56:43] <e^ipi> grabby_singleman: use glassfish (has a built-in cluster) and mysql-cluster
[21:56:45] <e^ipi> done.
[21:56:47] <grabby_singleman> and where should mysql go hm
[21:56:49] <_mary_kate_> by 'sotarge box' do you mean a computer?
[21:56:54] <grabby_singleman> yes
[21:57:02] <grabby_singleman> storage box heh
[21:57:07] <_mary_kate_> well a single storage server isn't going to be reliable
[21:57:15] <grabby_singleman> :)
[21:57:18] <grabby_singleman> doh!
[21:58:16] <whoami08> you can say the same about fans, power supply, hd's, memory, etc :)
[21:58:34] <grabby_singleman> I guess mysql could go on a dl140, but then I need to get teh dl320s to give fast acces to the dl140 liek iscsi ro something..bleh
[21:58:51] <_mary_kate_> why wouldn't you run mysql on the computer with the disks?
[21:59:13] <e^ipi> grabby_singleman: NFS is pretty good these days
[21:59:31] <e^ipi> also, what _mary_kate_ said
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[22:02:29] <whoami08> you'll also need a second connection with the grid :)
[22:02:40] <whoami08> if you want real failover...
[22:03:13] <whoami08> ah and a 2nd water connection for cooling your "datacenter"
[22:03:17] <_mary_kate_> he can't have a real failover, he only has one storage server
[22:03:47] <whoami08> mh ok, that keep that in mind for later ;)
[22:03:50] <whoami08> than
[22:05:05] <TomJ> Anyone know how to make a drive bootable on a HP SmartArray P400 in a DL380?  There is no set bootable option in the ORCA CLI, or via the hpacucli OS utility, or in the bios.  I only have serial console access so perhaps I'm missing some option that appears on the console, but I can't see how I am supposed to do this.
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[22:30:41] <shadfc> Hey guys. It seems the LSI SAS/SATA boards are decently supported.  I was just wondering if anyone has used this one before http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816118093.  My first time touching solaris and the boss wants me to put together a decent fileserver
[22:34:02] <sstallion_work> shadfc: I'd consider using an AHCI controller if possible
[22:34:12] <sstallion_work> or if its just straight disk io, the mv88sx's work well too
[22:35:15] <_mary_kate_> shadfc: you're thinking of mpt cards (which are well supported).  that's not MPT, it's MegaRAID (mega_sas)
[22:35:48] <shadfc> hmm, ok thanks guys.  can you recommend any specific products?
[22:36:00] <shadfc> getting ready to order the stuff, so Im glad i asked
[22:36:06] <_mary_kate_> for RAID?  a RAID array.  don't bother with host RAID, it's just a pain
[22:36:16] <_mary_kate_> (or use zfs, and a standard sas or sata hba)
[22:36:17] <shadfc> raidz2 is what id like to use
[22:36:25] <_mary_kate_> then you mustn't buy a hardware raid card
[22:36:38] <_mary_kate_> the whole point of software raid is you don't need a hardware raid controller
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[22:36:53] <shadfc> right, but i dont have enough ports on the motherboard
[22:37:03] <_mary_kate_> right, so buy a sas/sata card.  not a hardware RAID controller.
[22:37:31] <_mary_kate_> one of these is probably good: http://www.lsi.com/storage_home/products_home/host_bus_adapters/sas_hbas/index.html
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[22:39:04] <shadfc> great, thanks!
[22:44:44] <codestr0m> jbk: switch (pkt->header.pt) { and  switch (pkt->pkt_data.header)) { can't be used in a switch..
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[22:47:18] <codestr0m> switch (pkt->header.pt) is giving me the "rtp.c", line 181: improper member use: header
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[22:51:33] <jbk> if it's part of the union, you need to do pkt->union_name.header
[22:54:38] <grabby_singleman> is zfs already kind of a raid?
[22:54:50] <grabby_singleman> liek if I lose a drive does zfs keep going?
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[22:57:19] <Stric> grabby_singleman: if you told it to be "kind of raid"
[22:58:30] <Aria> grabby_singleman: you can use ZFS with a zpool in "raidz" mode (raidz1 is like RAID-5, raidz2 is like RAID-6, mirror is like raid-1)
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[22:59:08] <whoami08> Aria: and zfs w/o raidz*/mirror? :)
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[22:59:48] <Aria> Then it's not like RAID ;-)
[23:00:40] <postwait> It is.. like RAID 0
[23:00:48] <sickness> yeah
[23:00:59] <_mary_kate_> i think the 0 in 'raid 0' must signify 'not raid'
[23:01:07] <_mary_kate_> since it's clearly not redundant
[23:02:07] <libra> Hi, I have been searching the web, #opensolaris logs, and I can?t find the answer for this, is there suport for hardware sensors and sensor monitoring under opensolaris much like linux lm-sensors and sensorsd?? Thanks.
[23:02:39] <grabby_singleman> woa whats raid 6?
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[23:02:54] <_mary_kate_> like raid5 except two disks can fail instead of 1
[23:02:58] <e^ipi> grabby_singleman: double redundancy
[23:03:05] <sickness> _mary_kate_: yeah, but it's striping, much faster than, for example, simple concatenation, which is also not redundant... :P
[23:03:22] <sickness> raid6 is called raidz2 in zfs
[23:03:28] <e^ipi> data goes in, complex mathematics happens, and then you can have 2 disks die
[23:03:46] <e^ipi> there's a document that explains how it works
[23:03:51] <e^ipi> summary: "magic."
[23:03:59] <sickness> yeah, nice pdf to read
[23:04:00] <delewis> XORs aren't "complex mathematics" :-)
[23:04:11] <e^ipi> delewis: raid6 isn't xor
[23:04:27] <e^ipi> raid5 is simple... xor all the data together
[23:04:44] <sickness> delewis: do them on my 2tb pr0n zfs fileserver with just your mind and they'll become suddenly "complex" ;P
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[23:06:31] <delewis> e^ipi: it isn't that terribly complicated. It just adds an additional parity block.
[23:06:57] <e^ipi> right, with voodoo
[23:07:16] <whoami08> libra: like ipmitool?
[23:07:24] <grabby_singleman> sounds liek raid6 kicks azz
[23:07:28] <delewis> e^ipi: "voodoo" being Galois theory.
[23:07:36] <grabby_singleman> complex math rules
[23:07:42] <e^ipi> delewis: exactly
[23:07:46] <sickness> yeah, raidz2 rU|3z ;)
[23:07:47] <delewis> it'd be voodoo if said fields weren't finite.
[23:07:56] <delewis> (in the case of Reed-Solomon, they are)
[23:08:37] <grabby_singleman> whats an xor? sounds like a dengeons and dragons enemy
[23:08:50] <whoami08> libra: should be in /usr/sfw
[23:09:13] <Stric> grabby_singleman: 0xor0 = 0, 0xor1 = 1, 1xor0 = 1, 1xor1 = 0
[23:09:29] <Stric> end of bit operation
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[23:09:51] <e^ipi> crazy dueling galois
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[23:09:53] <sickness> Stric: what about NAND? :P
[23:10:17] <Stric> sickness: 1nand7 = NaSegmentation fault (core dumped)
[23:10:22] <delewis> or you could just say XOR is an associative and commutative operation.
[23:10:28] <sickness> oh
[23:10:40] <delewis> which makes it useful for say, exchanging the value of two variables.
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[23:13:05] <grabby_singleman> hmmm
[23:13:40] <grabby_singleman> seems the good old /j commadn is unrecongized by mibbit, the web page im chatting in freenode from
[23:13:44] <grabby_singleman> now thats a new one
[23:13:57] <grabby_singleman> [goes to download irssi
[23:14:05] <Aria> It's /join ;-)
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[23:15:03] <libra> whoami08: ok I have never used that ipmitool, never heard of it, but after looking at its man page on the web it appears to be a very powerful tool indeed, but it needs a IPMI enabled motherboard or device am I correct?
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[23:15:40] <grabby_singleman> Aria: you are correct
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[23:42:11] <grabby_singleman> hi what is the opensolaris way to see the flags on my cpu
[23:42:22] <grabby_singleman> like cat /proc/cpuinfo on linux
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[23:43:49] <e^ipi> psrinfo -v
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[23:45:30] <e^ipi> isainfo might also be helpful ( read the man page )
[23:46:09] <e^ipi> and prtconf
[23:46:34] <e^ipi> actually ,here, hold on one sec
[23:46:43] <e^ipi> http://bhami.com/rosetta.html
[23:46:57] <grabby_singleman> isinfo -v did it
[23:47:02] <grabby_singleman> isainfo -v
[23:47:06] <e^ipi> every time you have a question of the form "I do X in linux, what's the equivalent in solaris"
[23:47:09] <e^ipi> check that link
[23:47:36] <grabby_singleman> ok
[23:47:43] <grabby_singleman> I have the link I was being a lzy bastad
[23:47:51] <e^ipi> or for that matter "I do X in ${some unix or another}, how do i do it in every other UNIX i'm ever likely to encounter"
[23:47:56] <grabby_singleman> damn looks liek no hardware xen falgs on my chip
[23:48:01] <grabby_singleman> I gota go paravirtual
[23:48:32] <grabby_singleman> is ${blah} better than "$x" shell wise?
[23:48:56] <e^ipi> $x is an alias to ${x}
[23:49:12] <timsf> where's roland when you need him?
[23:49:42] <timsf>   (there's bound to be some esoteric implementation difference)
[23:49:50] <e^ipi> oh probably
[23:49:55] <alanc> timsf: last I heard, trying to get at least an hour a day of sleep between juggling the newborn and a ksh93 putback
[23:50:01] <timsf> wuss.
[23:50:07] <TomJ> you use ${x} when you're going to follow it with characters that would be processed as a variable
[23:50:18] <TomJ> name="Tom" ; echo "My name is ${name}J"
[23:50:27] <TomJ> otherwise it's redundant
[23:50:54] <e^ipi> redundant, or consistent ?
[23:51:04] <e^ipi> i tend to use ${} most of the time
[23:51:17] <TomJ> redundant I'd say, you hardly ever need {}.  But no harm in doing so if you want to
[23:51:19] <e^ipi> you lose nothing and it helps demarcate the variable
[23:52:03] <e^ipi> *cough* http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/redundant
[23:52:05] <e^ipi> btw...
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[23:52:47] <e^ipi> </pedant>
[23:53:29] <e^ipi> i also won't let you get away with using ie/eg interchangeably either
[23:53:53] <timsf> (closing </pedant> tag with no opening <pedant> tag -- bad e^ipi)
[23:54:02] <_mary_kate_> on the subject of i.e., saying 'id est' makes you look like a pretentious prat ;)
[23:54:06] <_mary_kate_> (just fyi..)
[23:54:08] <grabby_singleman> name="rick";echo "My name is $nameJ
[23:54:13] <grabby_singleman> oh yeah that wouldnt work
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[23:54:15] <e^ipi> _mary_kate_: i'm okay with that
[23:54:25] <grabby_singleman> heh
[23:55:14] <TomJ> It's actually slightly slower to use ${} (microseconds) because it engages the parameter expansion code
[23:55:19] <TomJ> (now that's pedantic)
[23:55:58] <e^ipi> yeah, it doesn't make much of a difference in most cases which you use, it's a preference thing
[23:56:16] <e^ipi> i just mostly find it more readable to use the ${} form
[23:56:25] <grabby_singleman> wait
[23:56:29] <TomJ> As long as you don't confuse it with "$var" which is safe from word expansion
[23:56:35] <grabby_singleman> how do you write it without the {}
[23:56:37] <TomJ> Some people think ${var} will be safe cos it's "enclosed"
[23:56:44] <TomJ> grabby_singleman: echo $var
[23:57:12] <grabby_singleman> I know but how do echo "My name is ${name}J" without
[23:57:24] <TomJ> name="rick" ; echo "My name is $name"J
[23:57:30] <grabby_singleman> hm
[23:57:43] <grabby_singleman> er ok to be a bitch
[23:58:02] <grabby_singleman> how do echo "My name was ${name}J in 1985"
[23:58:09] <grabby_singleman> without {}
[23:58:20] <TomJ> echo "My name was $name""J in 1985"
[23:58:26] <grabby_singleman> ah ha!
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[23:58:38] <grabby_singleman> but that sucks to have tto write mroe ""
[23:58:43] <e^ipi> trick it in to doing the right thing...
[23:58:43] <grabby_singleman> wow
[23:58:46] <grabby_singleman> live and learn
[23:58:48] <e^ipi> hence, ${}
[23:58:58] <grabby_singleman> <----learns a lot each day
[23:58:58] <TomJ> grabby_singleman: sure, but it was a contrived question.. you'd just use ${} :)
[23:59:07] <grabby_singleman> granted
[23:59:21] <grabby_singleman> Im sure it would be easier in common lisp
[23:59:25] <_mary_kate_> echo "My name was $name\c"; echo "J in 1985"
[23:59:29] <grabby_singleman> with more abstraction
[23:59:50] <grabby_singleman> uh \c?
[23:59:55] <TomJ> _mary_kate_: or echo -n on the first one
[23:59:57] <_mary_kate_> uh yes





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