[00:00:05] <NCommander> e^ipi, ping
[00:00:36] <h3sp4wn> mib_xc5tel: read the documentation on the JDS build system it installs gnu versions of stuff and sets some necessary environment variables that make building stuff on Solaris easier - then you can use the repository at http://pkgbuild.sourceforge.net/spec-files-extra
[00:00:41] <e^ipi> yesm?
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[00:03:16] <NCommander> e^ipi, is there a good guide to using Solaris make to create shared libraries? (I finally got my dev environment setup, but I don't think you want me using autoconf as my build system ;-))
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[00:03:37] <jbk> with sun's compiler?
[00:04:04] <NCommander> Yeah
[00:04:16] * NCommander is working on creating the libc_i18n replacement :-)
[00:05:15] <jbk> i think you just add -G to the cc line
[00:05:35] <jbk> then -h soname -G -dy -o lib.so
[00:05:42] <jbk> for the link line (w/ cc)
[00:05:46] <e^ipi> why are you building shared libraries?
[00:05:48] <jbk> but that's off the top of my head
[00:05:55] <NCommander> I want static ;-)
[00:06:05] <e^ipi> you should want neither
[00:06:27] <jbk> i think it's just a matter then of running ar on the .o files
[00:06:29] <e^ipi> just dump files in usr/src/lib/libc/ and let nightly take care of them
[00:06:44] <NCommander> That's it?
[00:06:54] <jbk> yeah, but takes a bit longer for testing :)
[00:06:57] <e^ipi> well, modify the makefile to add the .o
[00:06:59] <e^ipi> but yeah
[00:07:09] <e^ipi> just like any other makefile
[00:07:40] <e^ipi> you can create a .ar, but i've broken the crap out of the makefiles so that they don't touch the .a
[00:07:41] <NCommander> Generally speaking, I was planning to code, it separately and individually unit test each function and then try replacing the resulting binary with the one from closed_bins.tgz
[00:08:27] <e^ipi> better would be to create a stub with the right signature, have it return success, and worry about filling it in later
[00:08:32] <NCommander> At the moment, I can't build ON; I can only download SUNWproc 12, not 11
[00:08:32] <jbk> one thing you might want to try is to create some test programs that can link against the closed lib or your lib (i.e. two copies), then compare the output
[00:08:45] <NCommander> e^ipi, that was the plan
[00:08:56] <e^ipi> ON builds with SS12
[00:09:04] <NCommander> The documents suggest otherwise
[00:09:09] <e^ipi> they lie.
[00:09:10] <NCommander> In that case ...
[00:09:26] <e^ipi> you get some more lint errors
[00:09:30] <jbk> though of the ones defined in the .a file, is there anything that shows which are actually called by other things and which are internal to the implementation?
[00:09:57] <e^ipi> mapfile-vers
[00:10:02] <e^ipi> which i've already broken
[00:10:16] <e^ipi> anything in the public sections are external symbols, so they've gotta be reimplimented somehow
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[00:19:16] <mib_xc5tel> http://pastebin.ca/1206172 anyone have trouble compiling things?
[00:19:33] <mib_xc5tel> I ended up going with openoffice
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[00:27:16] <tomww> you might look into spec-files-extra/(archive/SFEgoffice.spec|base-specs/goffice.spec) what they have done
[00:28:47] <mib_xc5tel> tomww: where would I find that stuff?
[00:29:06] <mib_xc5tel> I think if I could find the GTK environmental variables adn set them it mgiht work
[00:29:07] <mib_xc5tel> hm
[00:29:24] <tomww> pkgbuild.sourceforge.net  look for SFE  and view the svn repository (there is a webinterface)
[00:29:46] <e^ipi> it's svn.
[00:29:52] <e^ipi> by definition there's a web interface
[00:31:48] <tomww> :-)
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[00:32:06] <Stric> only if you access it through http..
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[00:48:12] <reduz> hi opensolaris people.. i just installed it and like.. notice the lack of packages. Is there any sort of ports or extra repositories i can use to get more stuff?
[00:49:17] <BuSerD> rduz: there are various additional "repos" but i have found blastwave most useful
[00:49:21] <BuSerD> http://www.blastwave.org/howto.html
[00:49:56] <BuSerD> there are more up to date sources but my needs do not go far beyond the defaults
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[00:51:29] <reduz> oh interesting
[00:51:31] <reduz> trying out
[00:52:22] <BuSerD> good luck; i to am new to solaris but like you find it easy to use and nice to work with
[00:53:03] <BuSerD> it took me a bit of digging to get irssi working but i'm good now.
[00:53:29] <ninjaslim> i've kind of realized that Solaris is too different than BSD for me to use
[00:53:49] <ninjaslim> i'm just not used to it, that's not a reflection on the OS, i'm sure that it's very very good, but it's not for me
[00:53:58] <ninjaslim> BuSerD: out of curiosity what system are you coming from?
[00:54:32] <BuSerD> well i have a wide ranging backround but I work in Tech Support for a hosting company
[00:54:37] <BuSerD> linux freebsd windows
[00:54:47] <BuSerD> i run freebsd at home
[00:54:56] <BuSerD> and i am rhce certified
[00:55:10] <BuSerD> just wanted to try opensolaris
[00:55:14] <BuSerD> and i really like it
[00:55:20] <ninjaslim> opensolaris is nice i admit
[00:55:54] <BuSerD> so i just finished setting up a triple boot system
[00:56:04] <BuSerD> centos freebsd 7 and opensolaris
[00:56:21] <BuSerD> and now i am just trying to pickup more information
[00:57:04] <BuSerD> it took me a while to find /rpool/grub/menu.lst
[00:57:08] <BuSerD> that was weird
[00:57:56] <ninjaslim> but i'm waiting until  couple of releases
[00:58:12] <ninjaslim> according to devs it should be polished two or three releases down the road with IPS completed and all
[00:58:33] <ninjaslim> yeah they do use different paths
[00:58:39] <ninjaslim> for a lot of things
[00:59:58] <BuSerD> yeah, takes a bit of getting used to.
[01:00:17] <BuSerD> but i am intrigued by zfs so thats how i got baited in
[01:00:22] <ninjaslim> are you planning on using this for like servers
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[01:00:54] <BuSerD> yes, but it will depend on how well i can adjust to it.
[01:01:04] <BuSerD> its so new i have to worry about security
[01:01:08] <BuSerD> new to me that is.
[01:01:19] <ninjaslim> you should use Solaris
[01:01:26] <ninjaslim> OpenSolars is intended as a desktop
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[01:02:08] <BuSerD> yeah, i like to get comfortable and this was the best way to get there
[01:02:20] <BuSerD> once i am i will try solaris as a server
[01:02:51] <reduz> oh hooray, got synergy from blastwave
[01:02:51] <ninjaslim> well see
[01:02:57] <ninjaslim> Solaris doesn't use IP
[01:02:58] <ninjaslim> IPS
[01:03:03] <ninjaslim> it uses SVR4 packages
[01:03:41] <BuSerD> reduz: congrats
[01:03:48] <BuSerD> glad i could help
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[01:05:55] <reduz> now i need to get sfml to work i guess
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[01:06:58] <reduz> i kind of miss a more complete repository like that of debian
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[01:08:23] <BuSerD> with the amount of ground the devs and contributors have made it should not be long before it meets that need
[01:10:08] <reduz> hope so, this so far runs nicely
[01:10:48] <reduz> y
[01:11:23] <BuSerD> i get dvd, mp3, flash and cli. the default packages are well thought out. not to mention its big iron unix
[01:11:50] <BuSerD> having sun behind your chosen os can't hurt either
[01:13:33] <BuSerD> ninjaslim: the freebsd guys were asking for you
[01:13:47] <BuSerD> did you need help with something?
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[01:39:25] <h3sp4wn> reduz: You can use pkgsrc for quite alot of packages - or build things with SFE
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[01:43:15] <reduz> blastwave kind of asks a lot of questions
[01:43:34] <reduz> guess i should run it with | yes
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[01:44:28] <reduz> being completely honest, it feels like the packaging system isn't very robust.. wish it used either ports, rpm or apt
[01:45:51] <MindDrive> You can set up a configuration file to keep Blastwave from asking most of those questions.
[01:46:07] <MindDrive> (It's mentioned in the howto, IIRC.)
[01:46:33] <_mary_kate_> reduz: blastwave doesn't really have a packaging system, just a script that automatically downloads solaris packages
[01:47:03] <reduz> oh
[01:47:29] <h3sp4wn> reduz: http://blogs.sun.com/pradhap/entry/using_freebsd_pkg_add_with - pkgsrc is a form of ports
[01:48:06] <reduz> ah that seems cool
[01:48:08] <_mary_kate_> reduz: solaris itself is getting a new packaging system (IPS), which is somewhat like linux network repository, but also a bit different
[01:48:30] <bda> pkgsrc++
[01:48:30] <reduz> that's good to know, so far it's the only area (besides drivers) i found opensolaris lacking
[01:48:33] <reduz> everything else works great
[01:48:39] <bda> OpenSolaris has the new packaging system.
[01:49:06] <bda> See pkg(1).
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[01:49:22] <_mary_kate_> (solaris packages are basically the same as dpkg, rpm, etc (except more advanced in some places)... when people say they want 'apt', what they really mean is a network package repository.  IPS adds that, but it also changes the basic packaging system so it's no longer similar to solaris packages, or dpkg/rpm)
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[01:50:03] <reduz> i know, that's pretty much what I mean, except there is a huge lack of applications in the repository
[01:50:14] <reduz> i don't mind compiling some stuff, but some apps are pretty huge to compile
[01:50:15] <bda> Fair enough.
[01:50:28] * bda needs to get around to pkgsrc -> IPS.
[01:50:37] <bda> There are scripts to convert pkgsrc packages to SRV4, which IPS can eat.
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[01:51:20] <reduz> As in, I don't really care much about IPS being more powerful.. the main reason why i said it would be cool to use a ports/apt system is more like so exiting packages can be converted easily
[01:51:49] <reduz> because otherwise, you need another huge community to mantain packages
[01:51:57] <e^ipi> umm
[01:52:07] <e^ipi> you realize that solaris and linux are not compatible, right?
[01:52:14] <_mary_kate_> that's not really the case.  it's no easier to convert an rpm to a dpkg than to create a new dpkg, really
[01:52:20] <_mary_kate_> IPS won't be any different there
[01:52:23] <reduz> e^ipi, ports is bsd
[01:52:49] <reduz> and even though that, what i mean is that converting packages is still easier
[01:52:57] <reduz> i don't expect them to work magically
[01:52:59] <bda> _mary_kate_: whee, alien?
[01:54:32] <_mary_kate_> bda: hardly
[01:54:45] <bda> I used it with some success years ago.
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[01:54:57] <_mary_kate_> it's useful for the occasional package from some vendor who only supports redhat
[01:55:06] <_mary_kate_> definitely not something you'd want to actually build a package repository with
[01:55:07] <bda> And more recently than that, for Cloudmark Gateway, I think.
[01:55:12] <bda> Sure.
[01:55:22] <h3sp4wn> bda: I thought about using gensolpkg (or whatever the name is) but what about dependancies
[01:55:43] <bda> Dunno, I haven't really looked into it very hard.
[01:55:59] <bda> Nothing in production runs OSOL, so justifying the time investment is a non-starter.
[01:56:16] <_mary_kate_> bda: i bet joyent will before long ;)
[01:56:22] <skullone> id love to see solaris adopt a more modern packaging system for apps, have not played around with IPS, but apt, ports, are both good solutions
[01:56:25] <bda> ho ho. :)
[01:56:33] <reduz> also, I don't get why all the SUNW FSFW in the names of the packages, it's very confusing
[01:56:45] <bda> reduz: It's denotes who delivered the package.
[01:56:46] <_mary_kate_> skullone: what do you find unmodern about svr4 packages?
[01:56:49] * bda is going to miss it.
[01:56:51] <h3sp4wn> _mary_kate_: That logic could be applied to building packages from spec-files instead of a native build system
[01:56:55] <_mary_kate_> reduz: so you can have SUNWfoo and CSWfoo and YOURCOMPANYfoo all installed
[01:57:17] <reduz> bda, i know, but it's not very asthetically nice to show the packages that way in the package manaer
[01:57:22] <bda> shrug.
[01:57:24] <_mary_kate_> h3sp4wn: not really, for two reasons; 1. it's compiled on a solaris system (alien'd packages are compiled on redhat, but installed on debian) and 2. the specs are modifed to suit solaris
[01:57:28] <bda> UNIX isn't about aesthetics, dude. :)
[01:57:38] <bda> It has its own specific idea of elegance.
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[01:58:26] <reduz> well, i thought the idea about opensolaris is to take a share from the current linux userbase, and I'm all for it, but i'm not sure that kind of stuff is very positive
[01:58:44] <skullone> heres a question i havent seen answered on zfs-discuss... does AVS currently replicate a ZFS resilver over the network?
[01:59:02] <reduz> and linux users became sissies thanks to ubuntu
[01:59:04] <bda> They're getting rid of the vendor abbreviations eventually, apparently.
[01:59:10] <_mary_kate_> skullone: it will replicate any writes
[01:59:18] <bda> skullone: AVS is block level, so...
[01:59:44] <bda> reduz: shrug. I'm all for things being easy. I use OS X on the desktop.
[01:59:50] <mib_xc5tel> u-bung-2 is not something me as a linux guy  touches a lot; archlinux si far nicer
[01:59:59] <mib_xc5tel> opensoalris jury is out
[02:00:00] <skullone> kinda what i was afriad of... i understand the relationship at that level, but was hoping not to need to resilver 5TB over the network, when the remote side may not be degraded
[02:00:03] <mib_xc5tel> ive had compile problems
[02:00:04] <e^ipi> whatever, linux is linux
[02:00:13] <mib_xc5tel> and touble finding programs on the filesystem
[02:00:19] <e^ipi> it sucks no matter how you slice it
[02:00:45] <bda> mib_xc5tel: Read filesystem(5).
[02:01:05] <mib_xc5tel> well up to date kernel adn pacakges and a ncie packaging system that does dependency removes when you remove, as well as everything i686 binary [not i386] makes arch move to the front
[02:01:13] <mib_xc5tel> man filesystem 5?
[02:01:41] <_mary_kate_> mib_xc5tel: in what way is the solaris kernel not up to date?  (and the packaging system has done dependency checks forever...)
[02:01:44] <reduz> I don't care much about linux itself, but i think the gnu toolchain is awesome
[02:01:51] <bda> You can just `man filesystem`. foo(n) denotes it is a man page, yes.
[02:02:02] <bda> (some things exist in multiple sections, so)
[02:02:04] <e^ipi> reduz: that's a silly opinion to have... have you ever dealt with anything else?
[02:02:18] <e^ipi> you begin to realize the un-awesomeness of the gnu tools pretty quick
[02:02:19] <bda> auto* sucks so hard.
[02:02:26] <bda> It sucks harder than anything has ever sucked before.
[02:02:30] <bda> Even stuff that sucks pretty hard.
[02:02:42] <mib_xc5tel> _mary_kate_: I never said it was, I was aiming at ubuntoo there
[02:03:12] <mib_xc5tel> hm ok man filesystem 5 hmmmmm
[02:03:18] <mib_xc5tel> [read read]
[02:03:24] <reduz> e^ipi, pretty much everything windows/mac/bsd.. although i haven't used solaris in 10 years
[02:03:55] <reduz> e^ipi, y
[02:03:58] <reduz> err wrong window
[02:04:04] <e^ipi> so, no... then
[02:04:41] <reduz> i used solaris through all 1999 for some site i had to build, then used irix for a few months, and went to bsd/linux
[02:04:54] <reduz> irix had a nice compiler
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[02:05:36] <reduz> the real reason i use linux though is the hardware support, in that sense for a unix it's unmatched
[02:05:50] <e^ipi> so why bother ? just use windows
[02:05:57] <e^ipi> nothing supports more hardware than that
[02:05:59] <jtmuzix> use osx
[02:06:11] <jtmuzix> lack of hw support
[02:06:20] <jtmuzix> but the hardware that is supported is pretty nice
[02:06:32] <e^ipi> alternately, just buy your hardware based on the OS you want to run
[02:06:35] <bda> e^ipi: In the real world, we are sometimes constrained by the situation in terms of physical devices.
[02:06:53] <bda> I have a bunch of hardware I can't run Solaris on.
[02:06:56] <bda> Should I run Windows on it?
[02:07:15] <reduz> e^ipi, i feel as if you don't like linux very much :)
[02:07:17] <_mary_kate_> bda: you think e^ipi lives in the real world?  do you actually read the things he writes? ;)
[02:07:26] <bda> _mary_kate_: Yeah, sometimes I can't help myself.
[02:07:39] <e^ipi> :P
[02:07:43] <jtmuzix> I run a macpro 8 core and run Solaris 10 in a 64 bit VM using fusion
[02:07:44] <e^ipi> just making a point
[02:07:45] <jtmuzix> works wonderful
[02:07:54] <bda> H got these little pretzel things. They've got peanut butter in them.
[02:07:56] <bda> They're delicious.
[02:08:27] <reduz> to me linux works pretty well, despite having a very terrible VM, and it's the only OS i'm happy to use as desktop
[02:09:04] <reduz> despite FreeBSD/Solaris working better and having noticeably better VM/FS
[02:09:20] <e^ipi> and scheduler
[02:09:22] <jtmuzix> reduz: where does OSX stand?
[02:09:30] <bda> OS X I/O sucks balls sideways.
[02:09:32] <reduz> i don't care much about the sheduler as i have multicore
[02:09:46] <e^ipi> and less bugs because they're actually architected rather than thrown together haphazardly by a million monkeys
[02:09:47] <jtmuzix> solaris has the highest level of algorithm engineering
[02:09:48] <reduz> jtmuzix, i can't stand the interface of OSX
[02:10:10] <e^ipi> reduz: actually precisely because you have multicore you should care about the scheduler
[02:10:15] <jtmuzix> to each their own
[02:10:17] <reduz> linux pretty much freezes if any app goes into a loop of requesting VM
[02:10:18] <jtmuzix> i personally like it
[02:10:26] <reduz> freebsd and solaris don't even seem to care
[02:10:35] <e^ipi> on multi-cpu machines freebsd7 and solaris both kick the crap out of linux
[02:10:40] <bda> Indeed.
[02:10:45] <jtmuzix> e^ipi: I concur
[02:10:50] <jtmuzix> solaris especially
[02:10:57] <reduz> e^ipi, i agree, but in desktop usage it's hard to notice
[02:11:04] <jtmuzix> solaris is engineered to perfection from a scientific standpoint
[02:11:39] <e^ipi> reduz: try pushing your machine a little harder & you'll notice
[02:11:43] <_mary_kate_> if it was perfect it'd be written in Ada so it had no bugs
[02:11:49] <e^ipi> haha
[02:11:52] <h3sp4wn> Or Web
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[02:12:03] <bda> oof.
[02:12:08] <mikegriffin> what is Web?
[02:12:26] <h3sp4wn> What tex / metafont are written in
[02:12:30] <jtmuzix> they are obviously trolls
[02:12:40] <mikegriffin> ada is nice :)
[02:12:42] <reduz> e^ipi, i do multithreaded 3D engine/game development programming nowadays and linux seems to do fine in situations where osx/windows crawl and die
[02:12:44] <reduz> so i'm ok with that
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[02:13:49] <reduz> linux also seems to handle realtime audio with shitty hardware very well, where BSD keeps skipping. didn't try solaris for that yet though
[02:14:23] *** e^ipi changes topic to "Latest builds: SXCE 98, ON 98, IPS 98 || Step one: see if SAG answers your question: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/coll/47.16 || Clipboard: http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca"
[02:14:40] <e^ipi> our dispatcher has a realtime scheduling class
[02:14:54] <e^ipi> ( and you can select the scheduler at run time, rather than boot/compile time )
[02:15:03] <skullone> _mary_kate_: could AVS leave the remote ZFS pool in a degraded, non-importable state if the primary goes down with exporting the pool correctly?
[02:15:28] <reduz> e^ipi, cool, I'll have to try that out. I wonder how jackd wors on solaris
[02:15:33] <skullone> there seems to be some differing opinions on zfs-discuss on what would actually happen in that case
[02:15:43] <h3sp4wn> reduz: pretty damn well with oss4
[02:15:44] <_mary_kate_> skullone: well, zfs should never get into an unimportable state.  avs replication failing is equivalent to power failure
[02:15:49] <_mary_kate_> skullone: zfs is designed to recover from that
[02:16:00] <reduz> as soon as i have some time, i'll compile some of my the projects of my company that support opengl on solaris and see how performance/responsiveness is
[02:16:14] <reduz> h3sp4wn, solaris uses OSS from opensound?
[02:16:24] <h3sp4wn> reduz: Not yet but it will
[02:16:36] <h3sp4wn> for now you can compile it and use jackd with it
[02:16:37] <e^ipi> 4front
[02:16:38] <reduz> that would be good, that way it will have fantastic hardware support
[02:16:42] <e^ipi> ( nit )
[02:16:45] <reduz> oh, 4front, that is it :)
[02:16:52] <reduz> i was thinking more like opensound.com :)
[02:17:14] <comay> e^ipi, thanks for all the hard work on the evaluations
[02:17:20] <mib_xc5tel> does solaris beat bsd on multicore?
[02:17:33] <mib_xc5tel> that fileststem man page gave me a headache
[02:17:43] <bda> uhm.
[02:17:54] <reduz> i have to admit it took me 4 network cards until this worked.. tried the built in nforce, via rhine, SMC and an USB lan adapter and no luck. Finally worked with an infiniteon card
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[02:19:27] <e^ipi> comay: no prob
[02:19:57] <e^ipi> comay: next step is to find out what to do with them :)
[02:20:21] <skullone> _mary_kate_: AVS seems like a great replication product, just wish there was a way not to replicate resilvering  =/
[02:20:38] <reduz> btw, how do you disable deadkeys?
[02:21:07] <reduz> ah, just disabled input method
[02:21:07] <skullone> suppose we could replicate snapshots only with ZVS, but that could be accomplished just as well with zfs send/receive
[02:21:21] <skullone> ZVS/ZVS
[02:21:25] <skullone> ack, AVS
[02:21:46] <reduz> e^ipi, in any case, opensolaris is working beautifully, i hope the next release improves on hardware support as well as package availability.. other than that it's working great
[02:22:51] <e^ipi> it will, probably on both counts
[02:22:59] <e^ipi> hardware drivers are kinna hard
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[02:23:40] <e^ipi> IIRC the hardware detection util has/will have a "report this unsupported hardware" button so that things can be prioritized properly
[02:23:51] <nachox> evening guys
[02:24:01] <reduz> e^ipi, it's difficult when the not working hardware is the network card, hehe
[02:24:26] <mib_xc5tel> so where do things like openoffice get installed on opensolaris
[02:24:27] <e^ipi> reduz: murayama have a driver for you?
[02:24:28] <reduz> I can imagine it's difficult, though. I hope having 4front oss support helps the audio at least
[02:24:36] <reduz> e^ipi, where's that?
[02:24:42] <mib_xc5tel> If I had not remembered soffice as the start command I was having touble finding it
[02:24:54] <e^ipi> http://homepage2.nifty.com/mrym3/taiyodo/eng/
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[02:25:05] <reduz> oh, i found that
[02:25:14] <reduz> however, i didn't have a compiler installed to compile it and no network
[02:25:24] <nachox> how come?
[02:25:29] <_mary_kate_> reduz: usb key
[02:25:54] <reduz> getting gcc via usb seemed like a bit too much, so i kept trying network cards until one worked :)
[02:26:10] <nachox> hehe
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[02:28:30] <e^ipi> gcc?
[02:28:34] <e^ipi> studio > *
[02:28:41] <reduz> is there any other compiler i can get for opensolaris?
[02:28:51] <e^ipi> yeah, sunstudio
[02:28:57] <reduz> oh, awesome
[02:29:02] <e^ipi> it's a fantastic compiler
[02:29:34] <reduz> anything faster than gcc will make my day
[02:30:02] <TomJ> if I have a tar file that contains multiple files with exactly the same name/path,  is there a way to extract a specific one?  if i extract the whole file, or specify the filename, it just extracts all the files and therefore each overwrites the previous
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[02:32:06] <mib_xc5tel> TomJ: create a new directory
[02:32:08] <mib_xc5tel> expand it
[02:32:13] <mib_xc5tel> move file somewhere
[02:32:22] <mib_xc5tel> delete the dir
[02:32:42] <TomJ> no that doesn't work, extracting the tar file always results in the same file being created (i.e. the last of the dupe files)
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[02:33:16] <mib_xc5tel> how did you get a tar with multiple files with same path and name?
[02:33:20] <mib_xc5tel> thats kinda cruddy
[02:33:31] <TomJ> with tar -A or whatever the append flag is
[02:33:36] <TomJ> and yeah it's a backup script that needs to be changed
[02:33:41] <TomJ> but in the meantime I need to get some files out
[02:33:54] <mib_xc5tel> maybe soem tar switch
[02:34:03] <mib_xc5tel> or youll have to shell to orig box n grab it
[02:34:51] <TomJ> It's a file archiver, so no original file exists.  I'll keep researching.
[02:34:59] <TomJ> *log file archiver
[02:35:21] <bda> dd? :)
[02:35:30] <TomJ> ah, there's a q flag to stop after the first file, so that would get me the first one at least
[02:35:39] <TomJ> so I could get ifrst and last, that's an improvement :)
[02:35:42] <jbk> maybe star
[02:35:44] <bda> haha
[02:35:45] <jbk> it does everything
[02:35:49] <bda> jbk: I didn't want to go there.
[02:35:52] <jbk> it's like the bass-o-matic of archivers
[02:36:00] * bda went for inane instead.
[02:36:02] <comay> e^ipi, indeed; i'm optimistic we'll figure out a balance
[02:41:38] <e^ipi> comay: yeah, it's a good team and everyone seems concerned about important things ( not necc. all at once, but as a group )
[02:42:09] <e^ipi> or rather, perhaps i should qualify that better in that everyone seems to have a pet concern
[02:42:10] <TomJ> doh, GNU tar has --occurence=X  but that's not in Solaris gtar
[02:42:33] <e^ipi> and together the group's concerned about all the important stuff
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[02:46:42] <jbk> TomJ: perhap adding the 'w' option?
[02:47:34] <TomJ> oh good point, thanks!
[02:48:03] <jbk> pax might be able to do something to, but never messed with it
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[02:48:47] <mib_xc5tel> yal ever hear of diskelss servers using 1 box as a central root?
[02:49:03] <mib_xc5tel> so you jsut change the root image and bam your whole rack fulla server reboot into new life?
[02:49:10] <mib_xc5tel> but dhcp better stay working lol
[02:49:18] <mib_xc5tel> might need nfs too
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[02:49:36] <jbk> generally diskless clients work with nfs
[02:53:36] <TomJ> I'd hate to have a central dependency on all, or even some of my servers.  disk space is cheap as hell,  and with FLAR and decent procedures, keeping multiple servers in sync and upgrading en masse is not hard
[02:55:36] <TomJ> and if you use zones, you can have shared root between hundreds of 'servers' anyway
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[02:58:59] <mib_xc5tel> wait
[02:59:04] <mib_xc5tel> zones on a 1 big box
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[02:59:49] <TomJ> that's the idea.
[02:59:54] <mib_xc5tel> whats FLAR?
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[03:00:36] <TomJ> An OS image that can be rolled out to servers on install or as an upgrade/patch
[03:00:40] <TomJ> man flarcreate
[03:01:04] <TomJ> very nice, with the caveat that it won't run on a server with zones installed, which is somewhat annoying
[03:01:18] <mib_xc5tel> damn all kinda toys
[03:01:23] <TomJ> yes. many toys.
[03:02:53] <TomJ> having 8 complete QA environments consisting of 90 zones each running fat java processes,  using the Fair Share Scheduler on a 16 core, 32GB box is sysadmin heaven as far as I'm concerned
[03:03:46] <TomJ> *consisting of 90 zones, each running..
[03:03:54] <TomJ> (not 90 * 8 zones.. :) )
[03:06:58] <mib_xc5tel> 90
[03:07:01] <mib_xc5tel> holy sheit
[03:07:07] <mib_xc5tel> whats the fair share scedulrer
[03:07:49] <mib_xc5tel> 16/90 isnt much procesor
[03:07:57] <mib_xc5tel> 32/90 isnt much ram
[03:08:00] <mib_xc5tel> hm
[03:08:14] <mib_xc5tel> a crashign zoen ro zone out of space acna not down the big box?
[03:08:19] <mib_xc5tel> dhcp or staticlly ip?
[03:08:49] <TomJ> fair share scheduler allocates a 'share' of CPU to each zone, such that if all zones want a lot of CPU, they are restricted according to their share, but if the box is idle, any zone can use as much as it needs.
[03:09:07] <mib_xc5tel> nice!
[03:09:10] <TomJ> for example, if hyou give all zones 1 share,  and they all want 100% cpu, they will actually get  1/num_zones CPU each
[03:09:23] <TomJ> or you could give zone1 10 shares and the others 1 share, meaning zone1 will get 10x as much as any other
[03:09:25] <TomJ> etc
[03:09:33] <mib_xc5tel> dhcp?
[03:09:42] <TomJ> no, static
[03:09:48] <TomJ> not sure if you can even have DHCP zones
[03:10:00] <TomJ> not with shared IP networking zones anyway
[03:10:07] <TomJ> at least until Crossbow, which isn't in Solaris 10
[03:10:28] <mib_xc5tel> thx
[03:10:30] <mib_xc5tel> ltr
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[03:14:22] <_mary_kate_> could someone at sun tell me when 6699956 might make it into an S10 patch?
[03:15:00] <_mary_kate_> sorry, i mean 6695023
[03:18:22] <jamesd> after ashley_kate_ gains 5 lbs.  in the same week ;-)
[03:18:23] <ottom> _mary_kate_: it'll be in S10u6.  I don't see anything about it being available as a patch outside u6.
[03:18:46] <_mary_kate_> ottom: hm.
[03:18:53] <TomJ> how could it be in anything other than U6, seeing as it's for ZFS root?
[03:19:18] <_mary_kate_> 6695023 is zfs root?  hm, it's meant to be the fix for the 'lulib_relocate_grub_slice' LU bug
[03:19:29] <TomJ> Synopsis  	 cannot migrate from ufs+svm to zfs root using latest LU patches and 137138-07 kernel
[03:19:33] <_mary_kate_> (which makes it impossible to delete LU boot environments on x86)
[03:19:36] <TomJ> oh wait
[03:19:42] <TomJ> that's not the id you said
[03:19:45] <TomJ> sorry
[03:19:52] <TomJ> it was the only bug id link on google
[03:20:39] <ottom> 6695023 is "Live Upgrade should use GRUB findroot instead of biosdev"
[03:20:45] <_mary_kate_> hmm
[03:20:57] <TomJ> but http://bugs.opensolaris.org/view_bug.do?bug_id=6695023 is not found for some reason
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[03:34:18] <TomJ> what might I need to restart after chaning nsswitch.conf from  hosts:  nis   to hosts:  dns  ?   I restarted name-service-cache and dns/client but that didn't do it
[03:34:56] <MindDrive> I would think you want 'files' in there as well
[03:35:05] <TomJ> yeah i have that too, was just being concise :)
[03:35:36] <MindDrive> Ahh, gotcha... make sure you /etc/resolv.conf is set correctly, but other than that, I can't think of anything.
[03:35:57] <ottom> make sure you update the 'ipnodes' rule too
[03:36:33] <TomJ> sure. the issue is not with nsswitch.conf / resolv.conf working, it's what I need to restart after a change.  rebooting works, but I'm trying to avoid
[03:38:36] <MindDrive> Can you 'nslookup' at all?  What about 'ping'?
[03:39:47] <TomJ> yes and yes, but that doesnt tell me anything. NIS will proxy to DNS, so i can't tell if it's using DNS direct or NIS
[03:39:59] <TomJ> but my app fails when it's using NIS and not when DNS, and the app is still failing after restarting those services
[03:40:09] <TomJ> i cant see any other service that might affect it, will just reboot the zones I guess
[03:40:36] <ottom> 'nslookup' goes directly to DNS, so if it works then DNS is working
[03:40:51] <TomJ> yes, DNS is working. that also doesn't tell me anything..
[03:41:00] <ottom> nscd should take care of most things but there's n oknowing what an individual app might have cached for itself
[03:41:26] <ottom> how is your app failing?  Getting stale data, wrong data, no data?
[03:41:26] <TomJ> well nscd and the app was restarted, but didnt seem to help
[03:42:37] <TomJ> well, to be honest I dont know.  the app reads a list of hostnames from the DB, then checks its own hostname, and decides therefore what to startup bassed on teh config it found in the DB.  that part is failing when nsswitch.conf has hosts: nis, even though  NIS is proxying and would would proxy to teh same DNS server anyway
[03:42:52] <TomJ> but I dont need NIS to have host info anyway, so I'm just removing NIS from the host lookup, which then solves the problem
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[03:47:11] <reduz> hey
[03:47:16] <reduz> how do you use sunstudio to compile C++ ?
[03:47:31] <TomJ> CC
[03:48:00] <reduz> detects c++ and links against libstdc++ all by itself?
[03:48:12] <TomJ> no, you use CC instead of cc
[03:48:17] <reduz> oh CC caps, true
[03:48:22] <reduz> i forgot about that
[03:48:29] <reduz> thanks1
[03:48:44] * skullone is moving exchange mailboxes between two slow servers
[03:48:50] <skullone> its like self flagellation
[03:49:27] <reduz> does it come with a commandline debugger? kind of like gdb?
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[03:55:27] <_mary_kate_> hmm, so a workaround for ludelete being broken is to LU from A to B, then on B, lumake A, luactivate it and reboot back into A.  means two reboots, though..
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[04:00:55] <_mary_kate_> (also means you can never resize that slice, which is one of the useful things about lu)
[04:02:02] <reduz> ah, dbx
[04:02:08] <reduz> awesome, can't wait to try this
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[04:09:54] <atomicpunk> anyone know how you clean up corrupted files found in a scrub?  I tried rm'ing them, but get left with a nice long list of dnode_t's... :)
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[04:46:10] <jbk> evening gdamore
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[05:45:22] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Gman
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[06:01:20] <e^ipi> heya Gman
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[06:13:33] <Gman> hey john
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[07:30:46] <evocallaghan> Ah yes, for all you Java programmers out there http://www.piratejesus.com/nerdcore/nerdcore017.gif
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[08:15:04] <asyd> hello jbasse
[08:15:28] <jbasse> asyd: hello there
[08:15:31] <jbasse> comment vas-tu ?
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[08:17:49] <e^ipi> *yawn*
[08:23:04] <xRaich[o]2x> good morning
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[08:27:47] <codestr0m> xRaich[o]2x: good morning
[08:27:56] <xRaich[o]2x> hi codestr0m
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[08:28:26] <codestr0m> can anyone else confirm this site causes lag in FF os2008* http://zembly.com/
[08:33:32] <bda> Anything heavy on Javascript is going to make FF sad in X.
[08:33:50] <bda> Hell, that seems to be pissing off Safari, too.
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[08:34:02] <bda> Or it's just slow as balls.
[08:34:27] <e^ipi> yeah, the firefox js engine really needs an overhaul ( nuke the site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure )
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[08:34:47] <bda> I started running LiquidPlanner in webkit nightlies today.
[08:34:57] <bda> With Squirrelfish Extreme or whatever.
[08:35:00] <bda> LP is actually usable now.
[08:35:44] <codestr0m> bda: I was using midori to try to hunt down/squaze acid3 compliance bugs
[08:35:54] <codestr0m> fixed one and realize it's *a lot* of work
[08:36:34] <e^ipi> fun thought game: is acid3 a worthwhile thing to be compliant with?
[08:36:59] <codestr0m> e^ipi: is this flamebait?
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[08:37:30] <e^ipi> mostly not
[08:37:50] <e^ipi> i just haven't heard any arguments of why one should care
[08:37:52] <codestr0m> ok. I just saw it as something like. is POSIX a worthwhile thing to be compliant with
[08:38:17] <e^ipi> is it?
[08:38:29] <e^ipi> probably, it helps you be compatible across UNIX-es
[08:38:49] <codestr0m> honestly I'd have to looks at the specs, but in fairness I assume the guys making these standards didn't wast their time
[08:39:14] <e^ipi> but considering there's only 4-ish of those left, and the largest pretend UNIX is not compliant, it may be time to rethink the standards
[08:39:23] <codestr0m> for example if IE8 would be acid3 compliant. in 5 years. what would the world be like
[08:39:45] <codestr0m> e^ipi: you mean fbsd?
[08:39:55] <e^ipi> codestr0m: linux fails the standards tests
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[08:40:05] <codestr0m> Linux isn't unix
[08:40:18] <e^ipi> presumably BSD passes
[08:40:24] <e^ipi> but that's conjecture, so i dunno
[08:40:27] <codestr0m> that's what I would have assumed
[08:41:15] * codestr0m hungry
[08:41:20] <e^ipi> it's nice to fantasize about IE passing the standards, but the likelihood of that given MS's flaunting of pretty much every standard ever published seems pretty close to nil
[08:41:49] <codestr0m> e^ipi: not true.. they pass acid2 now or something
[08:42:12] <codestr0m> which in itself should be noteworthy
[08:42:43] <e^ipi> that's probably an accident, and i'm sure the 86 layers of management will rectify it soon enough ;)
[08:42:44] <codestr0m> they also put IE8 into compliance mode by default
[08:43:01] <codestr0m> no.. they conceded on this
[08:43:11] <e^ipi> that was a joke, son.
[08:43:13] <codestr0m> I'm sure they have a plain to benefit from it, but they did
[08:43:25] <codestr0m> I'm probably older than you, but not by much ;)
[08:44:42] <e^ipi> it's possible *shrug*
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[09:44:37] <evocallaghan> Yea, Linux claims to be SuS3 lol !
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[09:56:14] <Trede> morning masters
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[10:07:23] <e^ipi> evocallaghan: they can claim anything they want
[10:07:25] <e^ipi> doesn't make it true
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[10:11:52] <evocallaghan> e^ipi:clearly .. What did you think I ment ?
[10:12:03] <e^ipi> o_O
[10:12:09] <e^ipi> i was agreeing with you
[10:12:33] <evocallaghan> e^ipi:I got this macro I did in C to work out what system it is for my code to comply
[10:12:47] <evocallaghan> Turns out SuSE reports back SuS O_o
[10:12:52] <evocallaghan> +3
[10:13:19] <e^ipi> maybe they're just trying to be 1337?
[10:13:41] <evocallaghan> It reports back as a full SUS3 system
[10:13:58] <evocallaghan> I have found many cases where it fails
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[10:14:28] <e^ipi> i've run the tests...
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[10:15:54] <evocallaghan> For more info see: http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/000095399/idx/index.html
[10:16:02] <evocallaghan> Although I am sure you know it already
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[10:17:59] <Vagrant> hi
[10:18:06] <evocallaghan> Welcome
[10:18:43] <Vagrant> im trying to compile libmowgli and:
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[10:18:58] <Vagrant> bash-3.2$ make
[10:18:59] <Vagrant> make: Fatal error in reader: buildsys.mk, line 402: Unexpected end of line seen
[10:19:15] <Vagrant> but in buildsys.mk there is no 402 line only 401 and it looks like this
[10:19:25] <Vagrant>     401 -include .deps
[10:19:29] <e^ipi> read the INSTALL file
[10:19:35] <e^ipi> and then you'll probably need to use gmake
[10:19:52] <Vagrant> gmake says: missing separator in .deps:
[10:20:02] <e^ipi> so it's broke
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[10:20:06] <Vagrant>     307 typedef void    *__va_list;
[10:20:07] <e^ipi> read the INSTALL file
[10:20:12] <Vagrant> mk
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[10:21:17] <Vagrant> there is nothing interesting: ./configure; make; make install ;p
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[10:21:37] <evocallaghan> How good is snv_99 going to be next week :D
[10:21:59] <evocallaghan> Heaps of the *good* stuff
[10:22:03] <e^ipi> what?
[10:22:10] <Stric> it's gonna be better next week than in 3 years
[10:22:16] <e^ipi> are you making drug references ?
[10:22:16] <evocallaghan> IOMMU for both Intel and AMD
[10:22:17] <Vagrant> i dunno where missing separator is in this line: typedef void    *__va_list;
[10:22:39] <evocallaghan> snv_xx is a drug O_o
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[10:24:11] <evocallaghan> Also, the 5100/5300 driver as well
[10:24:25] <evocallaghan> and arcmsr
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[10:54:40] <victori_> in SMF can predefine a ulimit clause?
[10:54:45] <victori_> can you*
[10:56:07] <hali> run the service in a project
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[12:52:10] <_setuid_H> Hi all
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[13:08:00] <codestr0m> maybe someone can help me make up a patch for cppunit http://rafb.net/p/ywcDVJ16.html  The function "finite" must have a prototype I'm not sure where finite should be defined? thanks
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[13:08:55] <codestr0m> e^ipi: if you're awake.. maybe you know.. since this is a difference in compilers
[13:15:39] <codestr0m> nvm.. got it
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[14:01:27] <HackphiL> salut
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[14:02:08] <wokolad> Has anyone successfully compiled wine-1.1.5?
[14:02:44] <HackphiL> hello threr
[14:03:07] <HackphiL> is there any french opensolaris #channel ?
[14:15:59] <_william_> yes HackphiL it is opensolaris-fr
[14:21:15] <HackphiL> _william_: you're great, thx a lot
[14:21:50] <HackphiL> I join them now.
[14:22:12] <HackphiL> so long folks!
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[15:03:26] <codestr0m> ok.. I just ran into something which really tossed me for a minute and may be obvious to others around here, but CC="/usr/local/src/SUNWspro/bin/suncc" != CC="/usr/local/src/SUNWspro/bin/cc"
[15:03:42] <codestr0m> if I try to compile explicitly with suncc it ends up failing..
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[15:19:47] <codestr0m> anyway. if you're on anything, but x86,sparc or x86_64, (ppc ?) solaris is not for you right now
[15:20:11] <codestr0m> anyway. I'm just happy cppunit builds/install so I can continue building sipXecs
[15:20:30] <jamesd> how did  suncc end up being installed there... it usually lives in /opt/........
[15:20:48] <codestr0m> jamesd: I pulled SS12 manually
[15:21:45] <codestr0m> and ^ was in the wrong window
[15:21:58] <jamesd> codestr0m, well i would rule out that you didn't break something when you pulled it, before you try and fix this... install in the correct place, once that works you can play around with its location
[15:23:05] <codestr0m> jamesd: I've two environments.. 1) is an automated build system I'm working on and 2) what I've been doing from the command line..
[15:23:21] <codestr0m> from the automated system things are still a bit funky and catching small differences like this
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[15:23:54] <codestr0m> and yes it should be in /opt since it's a binary, but I just put it close to my source which isn't maintained
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[16:29:51] <reduz> it's too bad there isn't a portable interlocked reference counting standard
[16:30:00] <reduz> using mutexes is a waste
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[16:55:48] <victori_> anyone know how to run a process under a specific project?
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[17:50:08] <coffman>  hm
[17:50:44] <coffman> is there a nice quick n dirty ipf rule?
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[18:46:21] <Vectra> hi dudes
[18:46:30] <Vectra> postfix is an mta?
[18:46:44] <reduz> question, how does one install pkg-config on opensolaris?
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[19:08:34] <Vectra> hi folks
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[19:32:27] <jbk> hmm.. for some reason, nightly isn't creating bfu archives even though 'a' is set in NIGHTLY_OPTIONS
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[19:38:54] <TomJ> Vectra: yes it's a MTA
[19:39:14] <Vectra> TomJ thanks :)
[19:40:23] <reduz> ergh, i think opensolaris is too complicated
[19:40:28] <TomJ> The choice of mail programs is strange.  You have Sendmail, for masochists, and qmail, for autistics.  Postfix is one of the few sane choices.
[19:40:36] <TomJ> Never tried exim, don't know who that is for.
[19:40:47] <reduz> not enough packages and apps i download don't compile and i have to hack them around
[19:40:51] <Vectra> what mta si ok for solaris?
[19:41:01] <reduz> giving up for now
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[19:44:03] <Macabee> reduz: pkgsrc might be helpful
[19:45:44] <reduz> It's pretty frustrating that the package manager that comes with opensolaris only has very basic stuff. blastwave is OK but seems hackish, and on top of that no paths for any app seem to come configured, so i have to hack myself the paths (or make symlinks) for pkg-config and all the stuff in /opt
[19:46:18] <Macabee> errr
[19:46:23] <Macabee> pkg-config is in packages and path
[19:46:51] <reduz> Package Manager doesn't show me pkconfig
[19:47:03] <reduz> i got it using blastwave
[19:47:07] <Macabee> its in SUNWgnome-common-devel
[19:47:10] <Macabee> well there's the mistake
[19:47:23] <reduz> pkg-config is not gnome specific, it's a freedesktop thing
[19:47:33] <Macabee> no but you have screwed your paths up
[19:47:36] <Macabee> when you needn't do so
[19:47:48] <Macabee> which is probably why loads of stuff isn't compiling
[19:48:01] <reduz> i did? maybe the one that comes with blastwave doesn't setup the paths
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[19:48:15] <reduz> i had to set the pkg-config envirnoment var for paths myself
[19:48:35] <Macabee> so basically - you're complaining because you haven't read the package management documentation
[19:48:40] <Macabee> and didn't search for the right packages to isntall
[19:48:47] <Macabee> and went "ooooo blastwave"
[19:48:53] <Macabee> and now stuff doesn't compile
[19:49:03] <reduz> hey, people in this chan told me to get blastwave :(
[19:49:18] <Macabee> 1. use terminal - 2. use pkg search -r
[19:49:23] <reduz> also how am i supposed to know that pkg-config is in SUNWgnome-common-devel
[19:49:30] <Macabee> by RTFM
[19:49:40] <Macabee> if you'd of read it - you'd know you can use pkg search -r pkg-config
[19:49:47] <Macabee> and it you would quickly get a list of packages
[19:49:48] <Macabee> :)
[19:50:38] <reduz> what FM? i asked in here what to use, and i've been told to use blastwave
[19:50:43] <Macabee> http://opensolaris.org/os/community/documentation/
[19:51:01] <Macabee> specifically http://dlc.sun.com/osol/docs/content/IPS/ggcph.html
[19:51:11] <hile_> or.. grep the path from /var/sadm/install/contents atl east if you're using something that isn't Indiana-based.
[19:51:20] <Macabee> indeed
[19:51:29] <hile_> I don't know whether that will work on Indiana, so I cannot speak for that.
[19:51:57] <reduz> well, i really have no idea on how to know that beforehand :)
[19:51:59] <Macabee> generally this line is enough to install everything needed to compile stuff
[19:52:01] <Macabee> pfexec pkg install SUNWgcc sunstudioexpress SUNWgmake SUNWxwinc
[19:52:15] <Macabee> + then gnome-common-devel
[19:52:23] <reduz> also sunstudio isn't set in the path by default
[19:55:49] <reduz> Macabee, the default repo for the package manager is pretty empty, so i've been told to use blastwave. Even though, blastwave is pretty empty.. and most apps i try to compile just don't seem to like the linker or compiler
[19:56:25] <Macabee> personally i avoid blastwave like the plague
[19:56:27] <Macabee> but *shrug*
[19:56:37] <Macabee> i have a few working OS machines that i compile loads of obscure stuff on
[19:57:30] <Macabee> the blastwave ips repo hasn't been updated in months
[19:57:32] <Macabee> at least from what i can see
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[21:17:15] <e^ipi> reduz, Macabee ...
[21:17:30] <e^ipi> the problem will be solved soon.
[21:17:38] <Macabee> e^ipi: which problem :)
[21:17:45] <Macabee> i have no problem
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[21:19:18] <e^ipi> of IPS being pretty bare
[21:19:22] <e^ipi> example: http://www.sun.com/corp_emp/search.cgi?loc=Bay&req=559524&u=&p=
[21:19:27] <e^ipi> there are a couple others like that as well...
[21:19:35] <e^ipi> so, sun is actively hiring people to port software
[21:20:05] <Macabee> yeah i noticed that last week - pretty ace
[21:20:24] <Macabee> i'm sorta used to having to compile my own - i look after some sol10 boxen for work
[21:20:44] <e^ipi> yeah, i don't really mind compiling my own
[21:20:57] <Macabee> but the ubuntu generation...
[21:20:59] <Macabee> i guess they hate it
[21:20:59] <Macabee> :)
[21:21:15] <e^ipi> i've got a handful of sysv packages that I've built on my storage pool, i mostly just use those
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[21:21:53] <e^ipi> i dunno, i migrated from windows to slackware in about 94 or 95... if you wanted software back then you had to compile it
[21:22:06] <e^ipi> it just seems like the natural way to do things
[21:22:09] <Macabee> heh - same!
[21:22:25] <Macabee> slackware brings back good... and bad... memorys
[21:22:29] <Macabee> memories*
[21:22:44] <e^ipi> remember the lettered disks?
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[21:22:55] <Macabee> i do indeed
[21:22:56] <e^ipi> A1-A15, etc
[21:23:00] <Macabee> i always got lost in those
[21:23:13] <e^ipi> buy a whole box of disks
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[21:23:35] <Macabee> of course before internet was easy to come by
[21:23:41] <Macabee> ended up going to school
[21:23:47] <Macabee> downloading the disks i needed
[21:24:13] <e^ipi> i snagged an entire AOL display from the local tech shop for the free disks
[21:24:21] <Macabee> rofl
[21:24:24] <Macabee> clever move
[21:24:29] <e^ipi> eh, internet wasn't that hard to come by
[21:24:38] <Macabee> where i was it was
[21:24:43] <e^ipi> there were a small handful of ISP's around my place
[21:24:59] <Macabee> a friend and i clubbed together for dialup
[21:25:51] <e^ipi> i just convinced my mom that it was a good idea somehow
[21:25:58] <Macabee> and of course where we are local calls weren't free
[21:26:17] <Macabee> (they've only just gone that way in the last few years)
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[21:27:17] <e^ipi> that'd be the kicker
[21:27:39] <e^ipi> i was already a big BBS junkie
[21:27:47] <Macabee> hell yeah
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[21:28:06] <Macabee> my parents hated me (again non -free calls)
[21:28:10] <Macabee> being a BBS junkie here
[21:28:12] <Macabee> was... expensive
[21:28:19] <Macabee> for the owners AND the users
[21:28:37] <e^ipi> i think local calls have always been free here, at least since electronic switching
[21:28:56] <Macabee> in the US?
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[21:31:55] <e^ipi> western canada
[21:32:17] <e^ipi> one of the bonuses of the government sticking their fingers in things
[21:33:15] <reduz> You know, i was in the BBS era and I used solaris/linux/bsd since mid 90s, compiling entire operating systems without distros and all that stuff. But at this point, freebsd and ubuntu work _so_ well i completely lost the habit of compiling
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[21:33:30] <snd-hda> hi
[21:33:35] <Macabee> depends on your definition of well i guess :)
[21:34:16] <e^ipi> reduz: like i said, sun's hiring people to fill the repos. just hold tight for a bit.
[21:34:17] <Macabee> any community that disables hyperthreading because of a theoritical bug that may/may not be a problem - well... i don't think too highly :)
[21:34:27] <Macabee> snd-hda: hi
[21:35:06] <reduz> my definition of well is, apt-cache search has what i need 99.99% of the time, and 100% of the time if i have to compile something. I use it as a desktop for doing 3D (blender), web stuff, programming, and pretty much everyday geeky stuff
[21:35:33] <reduz> also works great for audio and has a lot of audio apps, ladspa plugins, etc
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[21:35:50] <Macabee> as i say - depends on your definition
[21:35:50] <reduz> and all the hardware i have, including professional audio hardware, works fine
[21:35:59] <snd-hda> reduz:  almost the same usage
[21:36:17] <Macabee> i was impressed when my x-fi worked under OS2008.05
[21:36:29] <Macabee> ironically - it worked better than my onboard sound card
[21:36:35] <reduz> for servers i use freebsd
[21:36:56] <snd-hda> i'm using Solaris at work, i tried for a moment to use solaris even at house like a media/workstation
[21:36:58] <reduz> 4front OSS is fantastic though, i hope it gets integrated into opensolaris
[21:37:28] <snd-hda> reduz: same :)
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[21:37:58] <snd-hda> opensolaris came too late
[21:37:59] <reduz> i think as workstation, opensolaris works great, and i like how everything is organized a lot
[21:38:16] <reduz> just lacks a ton of packages :) so i'm keeping an eye on that, like e^ipi says
[21:38:51] <snd-hda> reduz: and hardware support
[21:39:17] <reduz> snd-hda, there seems to be a lot of drivers around, just not integrated
[21:39:29] <reduz> it took me 4 newtwork cards to get it to work though
[21:40:00] <e^ipi> snd-hda: too late, or just in time?
[21:40:56] <Macabee> while i wait for more packages - i use pkgsrc from netbsd on my opensolaris install
[21:40:59] <Macabee> works like a charm
[21:41:02] <snd-hda> e^ipi: honestly? too late
[21:41:16] <Macabee> so i can have my wussy editors (nano) and things like git etc. easily built
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[21:41:25] <e^ipi> are people starting to get tired of linux failing on it's promises and being so diverse & changing that you can never really write a linux app?
[21:41:26] <snd-hda> heheh
[21:41:27] <Macabee> (to compare to freebsd - its basically ports)
[21:41:29] <reduz> heh, i never ever messed with nstbsd much
[21:41:36] <e^ipi> i think they might be *shrug*
[21:41:39] <Macabee> reduz: pkgsrc works on opensolaris
[21:41:44] <Macabee> it works on lots of things
[21:41:51] <reduz> wish freebsd ports did :)
[21:42:25] <Macabee> e^ipi: at least with solaris you can be sure your app will run wherever
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[21:42:31] <kito> pkgsrc 'runs' on opensolaris, 'works' may be a stretch
[21:42:42] <Macabee> kito: *shrug* works for me
[21:42:46] <Macabee> had no trouble compiling anything
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[21:43:00] <Macabee> you just have to remember to have your PATH right BEFORE you bootstrap
[21:43:22] <Macabee> (i.e. make sure sunstudio is in the path ahead of anything else)
[21:43:27] <kito> right
[21:43:30] <Macabee> also make sure SUNWscp is installed and you're done
[21:44:04] <Macabee> ymmv and all that :)
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[21:44:09] <kito> indeed
[21:44:28] <kito> I'm just looking forward to real IPS repos
[21:44:35] <kito> and a faster IPS ;)
[21:44:40] <JuanS> Hi, OpenSolaris run fine on Notebook ?
[21:44:59] <Macabee> JuanS: that's a very broad question
[21:45:04] <snd-hda> hehe
[21:45:10] <Macabee> kito: IPS does need a kick up the backside in terms of speed - this is true
[21:45:34] <JuanS> Why
[21:45:44] <kito> its python, so I'm not surprised
[21:45:56] <kito> it'll get there though eventually
[21:46:07] <smtms> Python can be fast too, if all the critical paths are C :-)
[21:46:11] <kito> hehe
[21:46:25] <kito> you can't outrun the GIL though
[21:46:31] <Macabee> python is still one of the faster scripted languages to be fair
[21:46:37] <Macabee> much faster than the new kid on the block
[21:46:52] <Macabee> which was only made cool because of an opinionated framework from hell :)
[21:47:06] <e^ipi> that's not entirely true actually
[21:47:21] <e^ipi> python is one of the slower languages out there... perl, java, etc are faster
[21:47:26] <kito> I'm not a python hater, if IPS wasn't python I'm sure it'd still be in the design/mailing list flamewar stage instead of actually working
[21:47:38] <e^ipi> kito: probably not
[21:47:44] <Macabee> compareing with java isn't fair e^ipi
[21:47:48] <Macabee> but comparing with perl is
[21:48:02] <Macabee> perl is faster - but its a write once read never language :) or at least most code i read in it is
[21:48:17] <e^ipi> oh bullshit, perl is plenty readable
[21:48:25] <Macabee> e^ipi: depends who writes it
[21:48:29] <e^ipi> you /can/ write incomprehensible perl
[21:48:42] <e^ipi> but you can also go out of your way to make valid python look like line noise too
[21:48:45] <kito> I think python is more likely to get patches from users too, its usually a little easier to dive in foreign code and get an idea of whats going on
[21:49:03] <Macabee> a lot of the systems i wrote for work are python
[21:49:05] <codestr0m> what's the correct way to install postgresql on os2008* pkg install  SUNWpostgr-libs SUNWpostgr SUNWpostgr-server-data SUNWpostgr-server or should I just install pkg install  SUNWpostgr-server and it pulls in the deps?
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[21:49:09] <e^ipi> that may or may not be true
[21:49:10] <Macabee> we find it rock solid
[21:49:14] <e^ipi> re kito's point
[21:49:20] <kito> remains to be seen
[21:49:21] <snd-hda> Macabee: true!
[21:49:31] <kito> but in my experience with other projects, its turned out to be true
[21:49:42] <e^ipi> fair enough
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[21:50:01] <snd-hda> well, all agree, let's talk about *solaris
[21:50:03] <snd-hda> :)
[21:50:07] <Macabee> but let's be fair - the slowest of the bunch is still ruby
[21:50:19] <kito> which, in my incredibly uninformed and humble opinion, I think opensolaris/IPS really just need as much 'community' support as possible at this point
[21:50:21] <Macabee> e^ipi: with build 98 - new zpool/zfs version?
[21:50:26] <kito> the infrastructure seems pretty sane
[21:50:42] <codestr0m> Macabee: you ever  have time for open source contract work. small stuff?
[21:50:48] <smtms> snd-hda, we are talking about "scripting languages on solaris", which matches your glob pattern
[21:50:49] <codestr0m> (python related)
[21:51:04] <Macabee> codestr0m: sometimes
[21:51:18] <Macabee> i'm currently porting a stack of old inefficient PHP code at the moment
[21:51:29] <codestr0m> Macabee: pm me if you're interested
[21:51:44] <codestr0m> and I feel *sorry* for anyone who has to touch php anything
[21:51:55] <e^ipi> Macabee: *shrug* check the heads up days
[21:52:11] <snd-hda> smtms: don't stress
[21:53:38] <Macabee> at least with python i have dtrace stuff
[21:53:52] <Macabee> one of my fave features of solaris
[21:54:03] <Macabee> and why linux can never hold a torch to it
[21:54:18] <kito> has python been dtrace-ized in solaris now?
[21:54:30] <kito> it was not last time I checked, but that was over a year ago
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[21:54:44] <Macabee> kito: it is in sol10u4 and above
[21:54:52] <kito> oh cool
[21:55:13] <Macabee> i ported the patches to python 2.5 as well - i need to put them up somewhere
[21:55:26] <e^ipi> got an os.o username?
[21:55:37] <Macabee> e^ipi: i have
[21:55:40] <kito> ohhh
[21:55:44] <kito> they are still shipping 2.4.4
[21:55:46] <kito> eeeks
[21:55:46] <e^ipi> so just put it up on your space at cr.opensolaris.org
[21:56:36] <codestr0m> Macabee: I'm also interested to the link to patches for 2.5. I plan to package it soon
[21:56:38] <Macabee> i never knew that existed!
[21:56:54] <Macabee> codestr0m: i'll package them up on monday if there's interest and get them up on cr.os.o
[21:57:07] <kito> I'd be very interested in that
[21:57:08] <codestr0m> Macabee: thanks
[21:57:26] <codestr0m> e^ipi: btw.. do you have links to your emancipation work you did.. if you made any patches
[21:57:32] <kito> I didn't even notice dtrace in 2.4.4 because I just always compile my own as I need >=2.5
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[21:57:56] <e^ipi> codestr0m: what i did for the last while got tossed. I've now got a different strategy
[21:58:11] <e^ipi> check the emancipation project page for the hg changeset ( or hg repo )
[21:58:19] <kito> codestr0m 'package it' == IPS ?
[21:58:35] <codestr0m> e^ipi: is your work committed.. that's great
[21:59:06] <e^ipi> it's not committed
[21:59:15] <e^ipi> hg repo -> fork
[21:59:25] <e^ipi> else they'd be in onnv-gate
[21:59:25] <codestr0m> kito: umm.. that's a long story. eventually yes all my packages will be in an IPS authority.. I'm waiting on some of the dirbundle things to be tested and some other stuff. I need someone with python skills to help with this actually
[22:00:04] <codestr0m> e^ipi: ok.. that's what I mean. is that your work has been commited to hg repo
[22:00:52] <Macabee> kito: yeah i just like dtrace so much - i set about porting to 2.5.x
[22:01:00] <Macabee> it wasnt very hard to do - took just a few hours
[22:01:09] <kito> I've been planning to get involved with IPS soon, for better or worse, I'm a former portage developer so I have some experience with python package managers and all the suck that comes along with it ;)
[22:01:16] <Macabee> the main hardness was the core of the interprester had changed
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[22:01:52] <codestr0m> kito: I need your help
[22:01:53] <codestr0m> :)
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[22:02:05] <kito> what are you doing exactly
[22:02:15] <kito> just adding packages or...
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[22:11:13] <Macabee> oh classic http://www.weebls-stuff.com/toons/Credit%20Crunch/
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[23:08:30] <shircbot> Yu
[23:09:24] <shircbot> You
[23:10:24] *** mega has quit IRC
[23:10:50] <shircbot> You will now ALL obey my commands.
[23:11:42] <shircbot> Pay $50 to OBAN 7849-72839-85385-19882
[23:12:39] *** e^ipi sets mode: +b shircbot*!*@*
[23:12:42] *** shircbot was kicked by e^ipi (e^ipi)
[23:12:48] <e^ipi> that's about enough of that then
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[23:15:39] <anti-e^pi> e^pi: Pay $50 to OBAN 7849-72839-85385-19882
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[23:16:26] <Macabee> *sigh*
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[23:18:37] *** e^ipi sets mode: +b *!*@84.59.133*
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[23:24:47] *** e^ipi sets mode: +b *!*@84.59.*
[23:24:58] <e^ipi> i've banned the entirety of china before...
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[23:26:08] <smtms> says something about your mental health
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[23:27:11] <e^ipi> bunch of chinese spammers at an old channel i was an op on ruined it for the rest of the country *shrug*
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[23:36:45] <jbk> hmm
[23:36:49] <jbk> ../common/nss_spi.c:53:25: mps/prerror.h: No such file or directory
[23:37:00] <jbk> i wonder i there's another non-redistributable package i need to install
[23:38:19] <jbk> or just a regular package
[23:42:19] <jbk> i'll need to email glynn to update the page a bit
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