[00:00:21] <jbk> yesterday, it looked like we might just get the very outer edge of it
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[01:35:28] <codestr0m> not sure if this is possible.. I'd like to clone the global zones software inside a container.. what's the easiest way to accomplish this..  would it be tar the install or is there another easier way?
[01:36:28] <e^ipi> when you create the zone, all packages are inherited
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[01:37:38] <codestr0m> e^ipi: am I free to remove packages w/o it affecting the global zone?
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[01:38:13] <e^ipi> nothing you can do inside a zone affects the global zone
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[01:38:36] <e^ipi> except to the same degree another machine could
[01:38:50] <codestr0m> ok. well. I think that may makes things a lot easier for me
[01:39:42] <codestr0m> I really need to remove as much as possible, but still get a very minimal booting system + drivers
[01:40:27] <e^ipi> zones don't have drivers in the same way you're thinking
[01:41:00] <codestr0m> e^ipi: what I mean is that I'm going to create a pxe boot image and the image needs to be very small
[01:41:38] <McBofh> codestr0m: milax
[01:42:13] <codestr0m> McBofh: yeah.. it's too big, but that's what I'll maybe use as a base if my other approach doesn't work quickly
[01:42:41] <codestr0m> Max size is about 80M
[01:42:48] <e^ipi> codestr0m: smdiskless(1M)
[01:43:42] <e^ipi> start there.
[01:45:05] <codestr0m> e^ipi: that's on the server side, but yes looks interesting
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[02:59:03] <TomJ> Would it work to have /var/svc/log as a separate mountpoint?  It'll be needed almost immediately in the boot process, would it be mounted soon enough?
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[03:04:04] <McBofh> TomJ: not advisable
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[03:08:59] <TomJ> thanks
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[03:33:23] <e^ipi> re PSARC/2008/336 Extended VTOC
[03:33:24] <e^ipi> ...
[03:33:41] <e^ipi> extending support for the VTOC (aka SMI)
[03:33:42] <e^ipi> label from the current limit of 1 TB to 2 TB
[03:34:07] <e^ipi> wow, that ought to delay the problem it's trying to solve by well over 6 months
[03:39:26] <e^ipi> perhaps unfair, as i don't understand the underlying tech. but it seems odd to me to just simply double the allowed size rather than picking a more exponentially sized bump
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[03:45:32] <techqbert> i can't go into a subdirectory past a share, for example, tank/music/beatles . I can get to music but no beatles
[03:45:42] <techqbert> What's the deal?  ACL?
[03:46:08] 
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[03:47:18] <techqbert> mayank: on opensolaris indiana, pkg.  on sxce, pkg-add.  you can grab extra hardware off blastwave.com
[03:47:53] <mayank> not getting you techbert
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[03:48:23] <mayank> suppose I need to install fetch package what command I need to issue
[03:49:38] <goinup> pkg-add?
[03:50:05] <techqbert> mayank: fetch as in "portsnap fetch"?  if not, read blastwave's intro http://www.blastwave.org/howto.html
[03:50:40] <goinup> i assume you can share a pool created in the global zone with a non-global zone.. will the two zones maintain read/write access?
[03:52:26] <jbk> you can create a fs in a pool and delegate it to a zone
[03:52:41] <goinup> but i can't share?
[03:52:53] <jbk> maybe with a loopback mount
[03:53:11] <Tpenta> or if you are running the 2008.05 distro, and the package you want is in an IPS repository, pkg will do your dependancies automagcally
[03:53:21] <goinup> what happens if i delete a zone.. is the fs gone? can i import that zone into the global zone?
[03:55:51] <techqbert> mayank:  *_* i meant software instead of hardware when referrign to blastwave.  I could use need hardware though ;o  after the blastwave introduction, are you okay?  One thing to notice if you are running sxce that some extra binaries are in /usr/sfw/bin/
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[03:57:05] <mayank1>  pkg_add: no pkg found for 'fetch', sorry.
[03:57:59] <techqbert> mayank1: are you running indiana or sxce?
[03:58:03] <MindDrive> 'pkgadd' - 'pkg_add' is a BSDism.
[03:58:09] <MindDrive> (FreeBSD at least.)
[03:58:58] <mayank1> uname -a
[03:58:59] <mayank1> SunOS 9b844284.fb.joyent.us 5.11 snv_67 i86pc i386 i86pc
[03:59:32] <mayank1> what is indiana or sxce
[04:00:19] <techqbert> i'm not particularly a solaris admin but I think that means you're running indiana.  indiana is for end users.  sxce is for developers.  if you installed by cd, you probably went indiana.  if you installed by dvd, you probably went sxce
[04:00:23] <McBofh> no, it doesn't
[04:00:29] <McBofh> snv_67 is SXCE
[04:00:39] <techqbert> ah
[04:00:46] <McBofh> mayank: what does /etc/release say?
[04:03:59] <techqbert> i can't go into a subdirectory past a share, for example, tank/music/beatles . I can get to music but no beatles.  I'm terrible at ACL- what am I missing?
[04:11:45] <techqbert> uh I just sudo zpool create test c0d0 (root drive) and my ssh closed.  machine pings but no SSH.
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[04:42:38] <dclarke> okay .. time for UNIX 101 .. where I'm baffled by something .. weird here
[04:42:51] <dclarke> $ OSREV="5.11";export OSREV
[04:43:03] <dclarke> $ /bin/echo $OSREV
[04:43:04] <dclarke> 5.11
[04:43:22] <dclarke> $ /bin/echo "foo"$OSREV
[04:43:24] <dclarke> foo5.11
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[04:43:38] <dclarke> $ /bin/echo "\054" $OSREV
[04:43:39] <dclarke> , 5.11
[04:43:48] <dclarke> $ /bin/echo "\054"$OSREV
[04:43:50] <dclarke> e.11
[04:44:06] <dclarke> what just happened ? where did that e come from ?
[04:44:46] * dclarke waits for that to sink in
[04:44:50] <_mary_kate_> echo "\0545"
[04:45:20] <dclarke> $ /bin/echo "\0545"
[04:45:21] <dclarke> e
[04:45:41] <dclarke> I don't get it .. e is octal 145
[04:45:50] <nachox> dclarke, try /bin/echo "\054"${OSREV}
[04:45:56] <dclarke> and all I wanted was a comma and then the os rev
[04:45:59] <jbk> well i'm guessing if you mod it 255 (dec)
[04:46:16] <jbk> printf ",%s\n" "$OSREV"
[04:46:18] <jbk> :)
[04:46:23] <dclarke> jbk : good eye .. dunno if that is it .. but that is a good one
[04:46:46] <nachox> avoiding echo is a nice measure
[04:47:01] <dclarke> bash-3.2$ /bin/echo "\054"${OSREV}
[04:47:03] <dclarke> e.11
[04:47:22] <dclarke> I can do the thing in C and output everything byte by byte if I have to .. but I was trying to avoid that
[04:47:50] <nachox> just use printf, much more standard than echo
[04:48:08] <dclarke> yep
[04:48:41] <dclarke> no trailing CR also .. nice
[04:49:34] <nachox> dclarke, btw, try the same thing using ksh please
[04:49:42] <dclarke> well .. that is hellish annoying in any case ..
[04:49:49] <dclarke> oh .. I was using ksh
[04:49:53] <dclarke> I use /bin/ksh
[04:49:59] <dclarke> not ksh93 at the moment
[04:50:09] <_mary_kate_> why are you using a backslash escape to print a comma in the first place?
[04:50:11] <dclarke> er ..
[04:50:14] <dclarke> no no
[04:50:17] <dclarke> you caught me
[04:50:30] <dclarke> I must have switched to bash at some point to figure this out
[04:51:04] <nachox> dclarke, i avoid bash for everything but interactive usage, and with ksh93 available even for that
[04:52:00] <dclarke> well .. that was one of those things where I stared at it and wondered wtf ..
[04:52:35] <dclarke> certainly the idea of an octal char being /0545
[04:52:37] <techqbert> does indiana have zpool v. 12?
[04:52:47] <dclarke> thanks y'all
[04:52:58] <dclarke> I may be back with another great UNIX 101 question
[04:53:19] <dclarke> I'm just messing with an idea and then ultimately .. I'll go to C where I should have started in the first place I think
[04:53:24] <TomJ> Method for updating a FLAR image with, say, new packages, is this correct roughly?:   flar split -d flar_xtract my_flar.flar  ; mkdir flar_xtract/root ;  cd flar_xtract/root ; cpio -idmv < ../archive ;  pkgadd -R flar_xtract/root SUNWfoo ;  cd flar_xtract ; find . | cpio -omv -O flar_xtract/new_archive ; mv  new_archive archive ;  flar combine -d flar_xtract /var/tmp/newflar.flar
[04:53:25] <nachox> dclarke, you still havent told me what happens with ksh :)
[04:53:35] <dclarke> nachox : sorry
[04:53:37] <dclarke> one sec
[04:53:47] <dclarke> with echo or printf ?
[04:53:58] <nachox> i'd test myself, but i'm in wincrap at the moment
[04:54:02] <nachox> both?
[04:55:13] <dclarke> dclarke v490R:OSREV="5.11";export OSREV
[04:55:14] <dclarke> dclarke v490R:/bin/echo $OSREV
[04:55:16] <dclarke> 5.11
[04:55:34] <dclarke> sorry .. stupid PS1
[04:55:47] <dclarke> $ OSREV="5.11";export OSREV
[04:55:49] <dclarke> $ /bin/echo $OSREV
[04:55:50] <dclarke> 5.11
[04:56:04] <dclarke> $ /bin/echo "foo"$OSREV
[04:56:06] <dclarke> foo5.11
[04:56:20] <dclarke> $ /bin/echo "\054"$OSREV
[04:56:22] <dclarke> e.11
[04:56:39] <dclarke> $ /bin/echo \054$OSREV
[04:56:41] <dclarke> 0545.11
[04:56:52] <nachox> odd
[04:57:02] <dclarke> yeah
[04:57:06] <dclarke> $ /bin/printf "\054"$OSREV
[04:57:08] <dclarke> ,5.11$
[04:57:10] <nachox> just using echo does the same?
[04:57:11] <dclarke> flawless
[04:57:19] <dclarke> ummm .. let me check
[04:57:28] <nachox> not /bin/echo i mean
[04:57:30] <oninoshiko> hrm... now i wanna try that
[04:57:36] <dclarke> $ echo "\054"$OSREV
[04:57:38] <dclarke> e.11
[04:57:55] <dclarke> like I said .. it had me really questioning the meaning of life here
[04:57:57] <nachox> (it will probably use ksh's builtin if it's available)
[04:58:23] <nachox> what does echo "\054" do?
[04:58:40] <dclarke> $ echo "\054"
[04:58:42] <dclarke> ,
[04:58:44] <dclarke> perfect
[04:58:59] <dclarke> $ echo "\054"foo
[04:59:00] <dclarke> ,foo
[04:59:11] <nachox> and echo "\054"$ ?
[04:59:24] <jbk> it's probably the \0545
[04:59:32] <jbk> i'm guessing without the space to divide it
[04:59:35] <dclarke> $ echo "\054"$OSREV
[04:59:37] <dclarke> e.11
[04:59:42] <jbk> it sees \ and starts reading until it reaches a non-digit
[04:59:53] <jbk> try echo "\0505.11"
[04:59:58] <dclarke> but with octal it should be three digits .. no more
[05:00:02] <jbk> err '\0545.11'
[05:00:23] <dclarke> $ echo '\0545.11'
[05:00:24] <dclarke> e.11
[05:00:31] <dclarke> pretty consistent in that respect
[05:00:45] <oninoshiko> try this: /bin/echo "\0054"$OSREV
[05:01:02] <nachox> dclarke, the shell sees a \, it doesnt know that you intend to write an octal
[05:01:14] <dclarke> $ /bin/printf "\777\n"
[05:01:16] 
[05:01:29] <nachox> that should not happen, with ' it should not change anything
[05:01:41] <dclarke> nachox .. yeah .. it is a toughie .. except printf works
[05:02:14] <nachox> dclarke, i almost want to start using windows, it doesnt do that :)
[05:02:26] * dclarke vomits
[05:02:28] <oninoshiko> dclarke: adding a 2nd 0 in the begining made it work
[05:02:31] <dclarke> just don't
[05:02:43] <dclarke> I have to use winblows because of Lotus Notes work ..
[05:02:53] <dclarke> and when I do .. it sucks very mighty
[05:03:02] <dclarke> Vista is just horrible
[05:03:08] * oninoshiko consoles dclarke "so do i, so do i"
[05:03:25] <nachox> damn, i need a new audiobook
[05:03:28] <dclarke> see http://wiki.blastwave.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=10
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[05:04:08] <nachox> any recommendations? :)
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[05:04:55] <dclarke> get a Sun Ultra 20
[05:05:05] <dclarke> pack it full of SCSI and 2GB DIMMs
[05:05:08] <dclarke> then smile
[05:05:16] <nachox> hehe
[05:07:18] <dclarke> next question
[05:07:25] <dclarke> and this has bugged me for a while
[05:07:47] <dclarke> when I use vim I get a bunch of colors that don't seem to be related to LS_COLORS for GNU ls usage
[05:08:05] <dclarke> comments in my files come up dark blue on a black background .. that is really useless
[05:08:19] <dclarke> I'l like comments ( lines prefixed with a "#" to be white
[05:08:39] <dclarke> is there a .vimrc with an easy to modify sort of thing in there ?
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[05:13:12] <nachox> dclarke, type :hi, i dont remember what the name of comments are in that context
[05:14:00] <dclarke> thta is a whole massive pile of crap I just got
[05:14:05] <dclarke> I'll have to dig in there
[05:14:50] <dclarke> shComment      xxx links to Comment
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[05:15:23] <dclarke> Comment        xxx term=bold ctermfg=4
[05:15:48] <dclarke> I need to change that to ctermfg=7
[05:15:52] <dclarke> somehow
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[05:19:27] <nachox> hehe
[05:21:26] <nachox> :hi Comment ctermfg=7
[05:21:42] <nachox> try that
[05:21:59] <dclarke> one sec
[05:23:00] <dclarke> perfect !
[05:23:08] <dclarke> where can I ship a case a beer ?
[05:23:55] <nachox> the thanks are more than enough, but thanks for the offer though
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[05:27:34] <techqbert> does indiana have zpool v. 12?
[05:27:48] <dclarke> techqbert: not that I have seen
[05:27:50] <dclarke> v11 I think
[05:28:16] <nachox> what's new in v12?
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[05:38:25] <techqbert> dclarke: you know if v11 supports v12?
[05:38:33] <techqbert> v12 read/write ya know
[05:38:40] <dclarke> what ?
[05:38:44] <dclarke> I have "no clue"
[05:38:51] <dclarke> less than a clue about higher revs of ZFS
[05:39:00] <dclarke> in fact .. quantum physics makes more sense to me
[05:40:03] <McBofh> dclarke: but does it give you a hadron?
[05:40:06] <e^ipi> techqbert: why not read the manual page
[05:40:25] <e^ipi> techqbert: if you read it, specifically the 'upgrade' section
[05:40:32] <e^ipi> your question will be answered
[05:41:24] <techqbert> e^ipi: will do
[05:44:09] <techqbert> agh I'll have to find my indiana CD (no working machine) and google isn't pulling up a zfs man page.
[05:47:53] <McBofh> techqbert: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/817-2271 ZFS admin guide, and http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/819-2240/zpool-1m?a=view +   http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/819-2240/zfs-1m?a=view
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[05:53:55] <techqbert> McBofh: thanks.
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[06:21:06] <nachox> i'm off to sleep guys, night
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[06:34:08] <cchapman> hello
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[06:36:19] <cchapman> hello?
[06:36:30] <goinup> hmm is there any way around the error "require the use of c99"? i'm trying to compile Firefly media server in a solaris zone
[06:36:36] <goinup> cchapman: hi
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[06:39:38] <cchapman> is there a package manager for opensolaris that will allow me to load applications.....
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[06:39:50] <goinup> cchapman: pkg-get :)
[06:40:04] <cchapman> is that like apt-get?
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[06:40:11] <goinup> cchapman: check out http://www.blastwave.org/howto.html for a good guide
[06:40:15] <cchapman> and is the repositpry as big
[06:40:25] <goinup> yes in the sense that it'll resvolve dependencies
[06:40:28] <goinup> no it isn't as big
[06:40:49] <goinup> you may also download packages from sunfreeware.com
[06:41:02] <goinup> and you can use the pkg-add -d <filename> to install their stuff
[06:41:36] <goinup> check out sunfreeware.com's downloading/installation section for examples
[06:44:27] <cchapman> interesting
[06:44:46] <cchapman> now if i could just do verything in one place
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[06:47:10] <cchapman> what are your thoughts on nexenta?
[06:47:19] <e^ipi> i'm not a fan
[06:47:23] <e^ipi> too gnu-y
[06:47:28] <e^ipi> but good for them anyways
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[06:48:05] <cchapman> you have problems with gnu?
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[06:48:32] <e^ipi> yes, they have no regard to quality, stability, compatibility, or standards
[06:49:05] <cchapman> fair enough
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[06:49:14] <cchapman> anything else
[06:49:34] <e^ipi> i think that encompasses all of it really
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[06:49:43] <kgoetz> *grin*
[06:49:45] <goinup> hehe i don't think e^ipi left anything out
[06:50:12] <goinup> or i don't think there is anything else left
[06:50:18] <cchapman> i am trying to make a decision on Solaris 10, opensolaris, nexenta
[06:50:30] <goinup> opensolaris
[06:50:38] <goinup> well..
[06:50:56] <goinup> uname -v
[06:50:56] <goinup> snv_94
[06:51:17] <goinup> i think thats opensolaris i forgot
[06:51:19] <goinup> :P
[06:51:23] <goinup> its been a while
[06:51:26] <e^ipi> cchapman: i use SXCE myself; if you fix the $PATH opensolaris can be worthwhile
[06:52:47] <goinup> e^ipi: is snv_94 sxce?
[06:53:16] <e^ipi> sxce is sxce
[06:53:45] <goinup> does uname -a return a different number?
[06:53:45] <e^ipi> $ which pkg
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[07:09:19] <e^ipi> goinup: if you have pkg, you have opensolaris/indiana
[07:09:24] <e^ipi> if you don't, you've got SXCE
[07:09:33] <goinup> ah.. sorry was compiling firefly :P
[07:09:37] <goinup> yea no pkg
[07:09:41] <goinup> only pkgadd
[07:09:58] <McBofh> you could also check the contents of /etc/release
[07:10:14] <McBofh> SXCE will have     Solaris Express Community Edition   in it
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[07:11:19] <goinup> there ya go.. Solaris Express Community Edition snv_94 X86
[07:11:34] <goinup> cool thanks
[07:13:00] <e^ipi> i still maintain that uname -v ought to return sin_XX rather than snv_XX
[07:13:11] <e^ipi> on indiana
[07:13:50] <e^ipi> sure O/N is the same, but it's a different operating system product
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[07:53:48] <stoxx_> is sxde discontinued?
[07:53:54] <McBofh> yes
[07:53:57] <stoxx_> darn
[07:54:02] <McBofh> either use SXCE or osol2008.05
[07:54:21] <stoxx_> which sxce would be more tested than the others :(
[07:54:40] <McBofh> all SXCE builds go through the same testing process
[07:55:14] <stoxx_> so i can get any and be just as much screwed as with any
[07:55:14] <McBofh> what are you really asking? "can I run my multibillion dollar pr0n empire on SXCE" ?
[07:55:14] <McBofh> :-P
[07:55:44] <stoxx_> well no. it's just my home server
[07:56:27] <stoxx_> cannot really back up 3T so..
[07:57:05] <stoxx_> but thanks, i can stop looking now and just leap
[07:57:59] <stoxx_> the thing is, i wouldn't upgrade bug zfs slog management seems broken
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[07:58:11] <stoxx_> added mirrors but cannot detach the old device
[07:59:35] <stoxx_> the weird part being that i cannot reproduce that on a fresh 1/08 (78b)
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[08:22:59] <trochej> Coffee
[08:27:06] <trochej> http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html
[08:27:25] <trochej> :)
[08:27:28] <trochej> Najsz
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[09:01:11] <Macabee> Thank you for the update to 97 on IPS :) finally Nevada works on the proliant ml115!
[09:01:11] <Macabee> :)
[09:05:24] <codestr0m> Is there a directory recovery feature for zfs.. It just happen and haven't done any writes.. is recovery possible?
[09:07:29] <_mary_kate_> recovery from what?
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[09:07:44] <McBofh> global thermonukular warrrr?
[09:08:18] <codestr0m> something like undelete.. or can I unmount the pool and rebuild the tree or.. just gone is gone
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[09:08:32] <e^ipi> you can snapshot regularly
[09:08:57] <codestr0m> yes that's a best practice and unfortunately I didn't think to do since yesterday
[09:08:59] <e^ipi> timsf has an SMF service to make it really easy to do that
[09:13:08] <palowoda> Maybe http://blogs.sun.com/timf/entry/zfs_automatic_snapshots_smf_service  or he might have something later.
[09:13:47] <trochej> palowoda: Or buy more RAM.
[09:13:51] <palowoda> auto snapshot should be something included with solaris.
[09:14:28] <e^ipi> put together an ARC case
[09:14:40] <palowoda> trochhej: I have a McDonald's hamberger to trade for 4Gig of memory. :)
[09:14:46] <trochej> palowoda: :)
[09:15:56] <palowoda> I've noticed lately Sun has decrease the ram costs.
[09:16:13] <palowoda> They use to rake you over the coals.
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[09:27:08] <gausus> re
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[09:29:42] <lkthomas> hey guys
[09:29:50] <lkthomas> do you guys ever destroy snapshot ?
[09:30:10] <lkthomas> I mean, does it ever needed ?
[09:33:14] <trochej> lkthomas: Yes
[09:33:40] <trochej> lkthomas: After a while with many snapshots you have quite a lot of referenced inodes
[09:33:56] <trochej> lkthomas: You CAN get a full pool.
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[09:36:25] <palowoda> Hmm is there a reference to maintaining snapshots and resources with zfs?
[09:36:53] <palowoda> With respect to sizing.
[09:37:55] <trochej> palowoda: There is some information in ZFS Admin Guide, but no stright formulas
[09:41:54] <lkthomas> how many snapshot will get it full ?
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[09:42:46] <trochej> lkthomas: Depends on how busy is the fs
[09:43:18] <lkthomas> hmm
[09:43:34] <trochej> lkthomas: Snapshot keeps reference to fs space that holds data changed since the creation of snapshot. The more data you change, the bigger snapshot becomes.
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[09:45:04] <palowoda> Wasn't there a zfs snapsot resource difference option?
[09:45:20] <lkthomas> isn't snapshot does not take spaces ?
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[09:45:35] <palowoda> Magic
[09:46:20] <lkthomas> huh
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[09:46:57] <tsoome> ofc the snapshot will take space:D
[09:47:11] <palowoda> And how much?
[09:47:16] <tsoome> except it will take less space than full mirror copy
[09:47:36] <lkthomas> hmm
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[09:50:41] <palowoda> Does any zfs command have a reference or option to display the resouces used from the previous snapshot?
[09:51:02] <tsoome> if you have just 1 snapshot of your fs, every time the data is changed, the original data block will stay in snapshot and new data block for file is created. except if you are overwriting the same data block over and over.
[09:51:27] <lkthomas> LOL
[09:51:41] <lkthomas> tsoome, do you have any script to clean up any snapshot which is longer than 1week ? :)
[09:51:48] <tsoome> you will get basic idea with du .zfs
[09:51:54] <tsoome> nope
[09:53:24] <palowoda> Maybe timsf could be improved to monitor the resource usage.  I thought his scripts deleted old snapshots.
[09:53:31] <tsoome> but now the exact data amount depends - if you have say 1G file, you have changed block of 1kb, the snapshot *should* be that 1 kb, not 1G
[09:54:06] <tsoome> even if you see that 1g size file in .zfs
[09:55:16] <tsoome> but i think the zfs command should be able to list the sizies anyhow
[09:55:22] <tsoome> sizes*
[09:55:36] <Macabee> i always just used zfs list
[09:56:30] <lkthomas> tsoome, so if I just change 1kb, .zfs snapshot will also shows as 1GB Changed file, right ?
[09:57:00] <tsoome> yes, as .zfs will give file level access to your data, not just block level
[09:57:53] <palowoda> Looks like zfs list used column seems to be right.
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[09:59:09] <lkthomas> I see, hmm
[09:59:20] <lkthomas> so does it "patch" that delta data or what
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[09:59:33] <oxygene> hi
[09:59:56] <lkthomas> zfs is using original 1GB file, then patch it with 1kb file and show it on .zfs dir ?
[10:00:07] <tsoome> its copy-on-write, as long as data has not changed, its 1 copy, if write will kick in, the copy is made
[10:00:32] <lkthomas> nono
[10:00:33] <lkthomas> I mean
[10:00:41] <lkthomas> does zfs save the patched file or patch on live ?
[10:00:46] <lkthomas> it's two diff idea
[10:01:19] <lkthomas> if original file is 1GB, changed 1kb, it will be 1GB + 1GB.1kb = 2GB
[10:01:26] <tsoome> no
[10:01:33] <lkthomas> if patch on live, it will be 1GB + 1kb = 1GB.1kb
[10:01:53] <palowoda> No .1kb
[10:03:32] <tsoome> basically the file in snapshot is pointers to non-changed data blocks and pointers to changed data blocks.  every time you overwrite the new data block, it will change pointer :D
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[10:04:37] <tsoome> a bit over-simplified, but well... :D
[10:04:43] <palowoda> I always wonder if that causes increased inode usage and if so is it a concern?
[10:04:44] <oxygene> hmm.. which solaris or opensolaris versions provide a fully configurable firewall inside zones? I want to build a system with zones for experimentation on that topic.
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[10:05:58] <tsoome> oxygene: i guess you may need to check latest opensolaris for that
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[10:06:48] <tsoome> there were some ipfilter updates, but i dont think they have hit solaris yet
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[10:07:37] <lkthomas> tsoome, actally
[10:07:48] <lkthomas> tsoome, do you suggest to backup files to tape or backup snapshot on tape ?
[10:07:54] <oxygene> tsoome: thanks
[10:08:11] <tsoome> backup always depends:D
[10:08:19] <lkthomas> depends on what ?
[10:09:15] <palowoda> Wasn't the crossbow project integrated that was dependent on zones working better with ipfilter?
[10:09:28] <tsoome> well, in case of zfs, i would save zfs send on tape:D
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[10:10:03] <tsoome> but all "incremental" backups will make your full backup restore to take more time.
[10:10:37] <oxygene> palowoda: crossbow should be it, yes
[10:12:23] <tsoome> and while zfs send migth be good idea to get block level incrementals, it is not too good idea for long time archiving, as the stream format can change and you may find you cant read it later:D
[10:14:30] <lkthomas> LOL, hell yeah
[10:14:36] <lkthomas> better don't use block level
[10:14:41] <lkthomas> file level should be good
[10:15:32] <tsoome> well, for regular backup rotation, its not a too big issue, and block level incrementals are really space efficient, in case u wanna speed up backup/restore and save tape space
[10:16:51] <tsoome> normal file level incrementals will backup full file, even if you have changed only 1 byte.
[10:18:27] <lkthomas> I think it is depends on backup software ?
[10:18:41] <lkthomas> actually, does Sun produce any backup program ? :P
[10:19:03] <palowoda> Remote backup like AVS?
[10:19:29] <lkthomas> nah
[10:19:31] <lkthomas> local backup
[10:19:57] <lkthomas> Sun did not take care of backup section ? haha
[10:20:16] <Trede> evening
[10:20:18] <tsoome> there is ufsdump
[10:20:34] <e^ipi> and zfs send
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[10:20:49] <e^ipi> and tape libraries
[10:21:11] <Trede> can latest os boot on a zfs mirror ?
[10:21:26] <palowoda> Yes
[10:21:27] <_mary_kate_> Trede: zfs mirror has been supported for as long as zfs root was
[10:21:27] <tsoome> well, zfs send is just a tiny bit, its far from real full functional backup solution;D
[10:22:04] <Trede> _mary_kate_  thanks
[10:23:17] <Trede> are there any considerations to only have one mirrored pool for the system ?
[10:23:28] <palowoda> You just have to create the mirror after the fact.
[10:23:36] <e^ipi> Trede: replace disks as they break?
[10:24:04] <Trede> well if one disk break,  a replcament disc will be rebuilt automaticly ?
[10:24:14] <lkthomas> becareful that zfs mirror boot up
[10:24:22] <lkthomas> boot sector need to be the same
[10:24:29] <e^ipi> Trede: after you replace it, yes
[10:24:52] <lkthomas> e^ipi, we just did a test 1month ago with zfs boot mirror
[10:24:55] <Trede> will even the bootsector be rebuilt on the replacement disk ?
[10:25:00] <_mary_kate_> not automatically
[10:25:05] <_mary_kate_> use installgrub(1m)
[10:25:05] <Trede> ah ok =)
[10:25:09] <Trede> thanks alot.
[10:25:10] <e^ipi> lkthomas: probably set up incorrectly
[10:25:19] <lkthomas> when we unplug first disk, it can't boot up anymore
[10:25:47] <lkthomas> _mary_kate_, so you are saying when I know I am going to replace disk, I have to use installgrub into second disk before shut it down ?
[10:25:49] <_mary_kate_> Trede: also make sure you mirror onto a sliced disk (SMI label) - *not* an EFI label, which is what you get if you use 'whole disk' zfs
[10:25:56] <_mary_kate_> Trede: you can't boot from an EFI labelled disk
[10:26:07] <tsoome> why u need to shut down things at all?
[10:26:13] <_mary_kate_> lkthomas: i'm not sure what you're asking
[10:26:14] <lkthomas> WHAT?!
[10:26:19] <lkthomas> it just normal PC
[10:26:23] <_mary_kate_> lkthomas: if you install a new disk into a boot mirror, you need to installgrub onto the new disk
[10:26:33] <e^ipi> http://opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=68591&tstart=60
[10:27:07] <Trede> _mary_kate_  what negative aspects are there to have several slices ?.
[10:27:24] <_mary_kate_> Trede: a sliced disk doesn't give you the write caching that zfs normally does on a whole disk
[10:27:34] <Trede> ouch !
[10:27:46] <palowoda> Disk are cheap.
[10:27:50] <palowoda> Disks
[10:27:50] <Trede> the disk's write chache are disabled that is ?.
[10:28:02] <tsoome> yep
[10:28:02] <Trede> yes but the space in 1U  is limited =)
[10:28:08] <lkthomas> e^ipi, I don't see a solution at all ?
[10:28:16] <_mary_kate_> Trede: yes, because although zfs can operate with write cache, very few other filesystems can, and zfs doesn't know if you're using those filesystems in other slices
[10:28:21] <_mary_kate_> Trede: so it disables the cache to be safe
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[10:28:33] <palowoda> I said disks are cheap even in a 1U.
[10:28:55] <Trede> cheap disks does not make them easier to fit in a tight space..
[10:29:02] <lkthomas> disk slice makes me headache
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[10:29:19] <Trede> _mary_kate_ can i enable write cache on  sliced disks ?
[10:29:25] <palowoda> Damn computers are cheap.
[10:29:33] <_mary_kate_> you could enable it manually, i imagine.  i never tried it
[10:29:42] <_mary_kate_> palowoda: rack space and power aren't cheap
[10:30:15] <lkthomas> haha
[10:30:16] <lkthomas> actually
[10:30:23] <palowoda> Are you saying rack space is cheaper on the street?
[10:30:33] <lkthomas> we are using adaptec scsi card
[10:30:38] <lkthomas> not sure if it support hot swap disk :)
[10:30:44] <tsoome> even if you manage to enable it, you may wanna be damn sure your disks are receiving power:D
[10:31:04] <_mary_kate_> tsoome: with zfs, it's safe to enable write caching even without a reliable power source
[10:31:13] <_mary_kate_> because it knows how to issue cache flush commands to the disk at approptiate times
[10:31:16] <tsoome> yes i know
[10:31:21] <lkthomas> _mary_kate_, default is write cache enable, right ?
[10:31:22] <Trede> well, the usage is "fsynced" db writes anyhow.
[10:31:28] <_mary_kate_> lkthomas: for whole disk, yes
[10:31:45] <tsoome> but if you manage  to enable disk cache without letting zfs know about it... :D
[10:31:46] <_mary_kate_> Trede: disk write cache ignores fsync().  that's why it's unsafe
[10:31:51] <lkthomas> how could I know if it is enable or not ? zfs set ?
[10:32:24] <palowoda> Come on guys it's a hardware resource problem.
[10:32:33] <Trede> _mary_cate_ well postgres does a true sync of the disk cache by default ?
[10:32:40] <Trede> so i shuld be ok
[10:32:40] <e^ipi> lkthomas: manual.
[10:32:43] <_mary_kate_> Trede: it can't, the best it can do is fsync()
[10:32:43] <e^ipi> lkthomas: read it.
[10:32:45] <lkthomas> K
[10:32:47] <e^ipi> lkthomas: docs.sun.com
[10:32:57] <e^ipi> i'm going to keep pointing you at it too
[10:33:01] <_mary_kate_> Trede: usually this isn't a problem because any serious environment doesn't do disk write caching unless there's a battery-backed cache
[10:33:03] <e^ipi> so just check it first before asking a question
[10:33:07] <lkthomas> sure
[10:33:31] <Trede> _mary_cate : is it not just some disks that ignore the flush cmd ?.
[10:34:30] <Trede> _mary_kate: ok i will do with disabled write cache.  zfs and DB caches will do their job anyhow.
[10:38:16] <lkthomas> e^ipi, do you ever need to goto sleep ?
[10:38:40] <palowoda> I suspect he is a night person.
[10:38:51] <lkthomas> hmm, I would think so
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[10:39:18] <palowoda> He is on the same timezone as me.
[10:39:20] <e^ipi> i sleep in short bursts
[10:39:42] <e^ipi> palowoda: west coast?
[10:39:44] <maj> hi i'm trying out the live cd is there a way to play  shoutcast streams ?
[10:39:55] <palowoda> e^ipi: yes
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[10:41:00] <maj> hi i'm trying out the live cd is there a way to play  shoutcast streams ?
[10:41:04] <Trede> thanks for the help btw.
[10:41:13] <palowoda> maj: mp3 streams?
[10:41:19] <maj> yup
[10:41:38] <palowoda> Good luck.  You have to know the secret. :)
[10:41:45] <maj> totem says can't play mp3's
[10:42:09] <maj> OS pull a redhat ???
[10:42:18] <palowoda> maj: Who gives away mp3 gstreamer support for Solaris?
[10:42:27] <palowoda> For free that is?
[10:42:39] <maj> sun ??
[10:42:42] <palowoda> No
[10:42:55] <palowoda> Sun sucks at mp3 support
[10:42:58] <maj> no know ,i usually use LINUX
[10:43:24] <palowoda> Maybe it's what Fluendo? (sp?)
[10:43:31] <e^ipi> with all caps, evidently
[10:43:47] <e^ipi> it's the fluendo codecs you're thinking of
[10:43:59] <palowoda> Hey Sun has an unlimited mp3 license too.  They just don't use it.
[10:44:07] <e^ipi> yes they do
[10:44:12] <e^ipi> SXCE can play mp3's just fine
[10:44:14] <palowoda> Only on Solaris
[10:44:18] <e^ipi> but it's not redistributable
[10:44:22] <e^ipi> so it's not in indiana
[10:44:24] <palowoda> Yes it is.
[10:44:28] <e^ipi> nevada wins again...
[10:44:40] <lkthomas> LOL
[10:44:51] <lkthomas> my ipod could play mp3, YEAH!
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[10:45:13] <palowoda> It's only "NOT" available becuase of GPL/LESSERGPL
[10:45:30] <palowoda> In otherwords GPL fucked Sun.
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[10:45:51] <lkthomas> multimedia, go for apple :P
[10:45:56] <lkthomas> server, go for Sun, LOL
[10:46:06] <maj> so i have to compile it ??
[10:46:12] <palowoda> Go buy Apple hardware see what I care. :)
[10:46:47] <palowoda> maj: No you can download it free.
[10:47:40] <palowoda> Just search on 'mp3' in the desktop-discuss list on the opensolaris site.
[10:47:45] <trochej> :)
[10:55:27] <maj> got it ty ty ty ty
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[11:16:40] <peter_> hm, have anyone update svn96 to svn97 via pkg image-update? i become a error
[11:16:44] <peter_> unable to create BE None
[11:16:46] <peter_> pkg: image-update cannot be done on live image
[11:16:58] <peter_> any hints?
[11:17:09] <trochej> peter_: It's installed system?
[11:19:05] <peter_> ? its simple opensolaris 2008.05 with update to svn96... the new svn97 packages are now installed.. only problem with this error... beadm show me two new entries.. but i cant activate one of the new
[11:22:55] <trochej> Don't know. Didn't try 96 -> 97 yet
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[11:26:55] <asyd> \_o<
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[12:24:51] <Macabee> anyone here had an issue with virt-install on nevada?
[12:24:56] <Macabee> failing to 'connect'
[12:25:01] <Macabee> i have xend running, xm works etc.
[12:25:04] <Macabee> just not virt-install
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[13:03:54] <|WIZ|> where IPS store downloaded files?
[13:05:02] <Macabee> in /var/sadm iirc
[13:05:57] <seanmcg> isn't it /var/pkg ?
[13:06:40] <Macabee> idd it is
[13:06:41] <Macabee> my bad
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[13:09:06] <_WIZ_3> please, write once again the /var/pkg and... ? I lost the chat history :(
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[13:10:24] <_setuid_H> Hi could someone help me with ipw3945/dhcp problem?
[13:10:54] <seanmcg> _WIZ_3, IPS stores its bits under /var/pkg
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[13:12:11] <_setuid_H> After some time wireless connection just stops working and even ifconfig wpi0 dhcp release && ifconfig wpi0 dhcp start won't help
[13:12:21] <_setuid_H> I got this output by snoop
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[13:12:56] <_setuid_H> http://pastebin.com/d457d5838
[13:13:42] <_setuid_H> I'm using physical:default
[13:14:06] <_setuid_H> Nwam hasn't this problem but it has other :-D
[13:17:16] <glance> What is the reason for the ips-packages being so mutch later than the SXCE ?
[13:17:42] <_mary_kate_> glance: they're built for (and released as) SXCE; the IPS team takes the SXCE packages and creates IPS packages
[13:17:46] <timsf> people.
[13:18:30] <glance> ok, so the IPS-packages is built from the SXCE-packages, and its a manual process?
[13:18:37] <_setuid_H> glance: I think that primary distribution to test it on is SXCE
[13:19:00] <_setuid_H> glance: Why would be ips-packages built from svr4?
[13:19:07] <timsf> not entirely manual, but not yet fully automated. New packages need to have manifests created from them.
[13:19:19] <_setuid_H> glance: have you ever try to construct it?
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[13:19:34] <timsf> Because the Solaris WOS is still SVR4 based
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[13:19:35] <glance> ok, just wondering =)
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[13:19:44] <timsf> and there is no IPS on-disk format yet,
[13:20:34] <_setuid_H> glance: no problem, I believe that there is some way to transform svr4 to ips but why if pkg.depotd can handle both ips and svr4
[13:20:50] <glance> _setuid_H: nop, i have applied some sledgehammer on some old sol-packages to make them behave the way i want, but nothing that probaby ever would fit a spec =)
[13:21:19] <_setuid_H> glance =)
[13:21:56] <_setuid_H> Ok bye guys
[13:22:07] <timsf> It can't - it can only handle IPS packages. There's a process you need to do to publish svr4 packages to a depot.
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[13:22:34] <_setuid_H> timsf: damn I tought that it can handle both
[13:22:57] <_setuid_H> timsf: I can sware that I heard it somewhere
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[13:50:58] <Macabee> is there anyway to use the nevada iso
[13:51:00] <Macabee> as a domU
[13:51:13] <Macabee> found this bug http://defect.opensolaris.org/bz/show_bug.cgi?id=315 - but that claims it was fixed a while back
[13:51:22] <Macabee> i mean indiana :P
[13:55:15] <trochej> Khm. Anyone has ever used sucessfully ip.tun0 with build 97?
[13:55:33] <trochej> ifconfig ip.tun0 plumb kills my comp
[13:55:53] <trochej> s/97/96/
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[14:23:43] <edgy> Hi, where can I find documentation for this command: boot -rv PROM?
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[14:27:44] <div9> how can I disable dhcp on a client while booting the system? i wanna have my interfaces configured static
[14:27:56] <_mary_kate_> boot single user, rm /etc/dhcp.<intf>
[14:28:17] <McBofh> div9: also,    svcadm disable nwam ; svcadm enable network/default:physical
[14:28:24] <McBofh> edgy: man boot(1m)
[14:28:56] <nachox> div9, are you using nwam?
[14:29:06] <nachox> oh, late :)
[14:29:16] <div9> _mary_kate_, no /etc/dhcp.<iface> file exists
[14:29:26] <div9> nachox: nwam is disabled
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[14:30:18] <Macabee> hrm - i really can't work how to install OS2008.05 into a domU
[14:30:27] <Macabee> i have dom0 running ok - HVM guests are all fine
[14:30:40] <Macabee> (managed to install windows xp as a guest to test that and had full networking etc.)
[14:30:48] <Macabee> but... i can't paravirtualize OS2008.05
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[14:31:04] <edgy> McBofh: I can't find the argument PROM in man  boot, can you see it?
[14:31:30] <McBofh> no
[14:31:46] <McBofh> what / who told you to use that command line?
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[14:55:29] <edgy_> McBofh: it may be a misunderstanding, check http://pastebin.ca/1200989 please
[14:56:09] <edgy_> McBofh: some one on another channel thankfully told me they just mean a PROM command
[14:56:22] <edgy_> McBofh: and it's not meant to be an option
[14:56:51] <McBofh> edgy: if you're at the OBP ok> prompt, then you can run "boot -rv" -which is a reconfiguration, verbose boot
[14:56:56] <McBofh> OBP == OpenBoot Prom
[14:57:36] <McBofh> oh, I see now
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[14:57:53] <McBofh> the message could, perhaps, be better punctuated :)(
[14:58:08] <McBofh> ie,     execute the "boot -rv" prom command
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[15:03:05] <edgy_> McBofh: yes and that confused me really but the other options are definitely wrong since no -r or /reconfigure or devfsadm is mentioned
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[15:04:42] <McBofh> options a, b and c assume that you already have qfe instances plumbed
[15:04:47] <McBofh> yay for assumptions
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[15:06:11] <|WIZ|> using pkg (for example: pkg install SUNWipkg) I often get
[15:06:11] <|WIZ|>
[15:06:11] <|WIZ|> "An unexpected error happened during instlation: timed out. The Boot Environment opensolaris failed to be updated. A snapshot was taken before the failed attempt and is mounted here /tmp/tmpuTIcU7. Use beadm activate opensolaris_static::-2008-09-12.. and reboot if you wish to boot to this BE"
[15:06:11] <|WIZ|>
[15:06:11] <|WIZ|> after it I need to run "pkg install SUNWipkg" again and it downloads *all* files again.... even if on previous installation attempt 90% was downloaded
[15:06:14] <|WIZ|>
[15:06:16] <|WIZ|> is there any way to use those 90% of previous downloaded files? Such problems with "timed out connection" is common here, almost every second installation has it..
[15:06:19] <|WIZ|>
[15:06:21] <|WIZ|> How booting /tmp/tmpuTIcU7 could help here? I tried to boot using opensolaris_static::-2008-09-12.. and system was not able to boot at all...
[15:07:03] <|WIZ|> sorry for multimessage...
[15:09:43] <Macabee> are zones 'ok' in IPS 97?
[15:09:48] <Macabee> any caveats i should look out for?
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[15:15:30] <ehtom> what are the differences between the opensolaris, freebsd and linux kernels?
[15:15:51] <trochej> ehtom: Topping.
[15:15:59] <ehtom> whats that?
[15:16:03] <trochej> ehtom: solaris has chockolate, Linux has sugar and freebsd has non
[15:16:20] <ehtom> haha
[15:16:32] <ehtom> well ok, I just included bsd for posterity
[15:16:44] <ehtom> i'm really trying to just compare the linux and opensolaris kernels
[15:17:12] <ehtom> what's solaris' chocolate and linux' sugar then?
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[15:18:36] <timsf> _WIZ_: ips does caching, so it's not downloading all the files again.
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[15:21:26] <Macabee> ehtom: dtrace and zfs (at least for me)
[15:21:38] <Macabee> linux i find slower/unstable compared to solaris
[15:22:12] <ehtom> dtrace and zfs aren't kernel features I don't think
[15:22:13] <xRaich[o]2x> hmmm dtrace, couldn't live without it anymore
[15:22:20] <Macabee> dtrace is a kernel feature
[15:22:22] <xRaich[o]2x> ehtom: sure it is
[15:22:24] <oxygene> ehtom: they are in-kernel, so what else should they be?
[15:22:27] <Macabee> and so is zfs
[15:22:29] <trochej> ehtom: I like the way Solaris solves the problem of CPU scheduler.
[15:22:39] <trochej> ehtom: While Linux tries to have one universal, Solaris has five.
[15:23:09] <ehtom> zfs is a filesystem driver... I wouldn't consider it an intrinsic part of the kernel, more a module... I was thinking about differences between scheduler etc
[15:23:15] <trochej> ehtom: I like the way Solaris i 64bit stable for 8 years or longer.
[15:23:26] <oxygene> ehtom: in general, with the solaris kernel (can't say that for the userland), lots of care is taken to get the design right. One of the reasons why there's only one duplicate API (for usb device drivers), and lots of stable APIs in the kernel
[15:24:01] <Macabee> ehtom: in the unix 'world' (including linux) 'filesystem drivers' are part of the kernel
[15:24:04] <Macabee> that only changed very recently
[15:24:06] <Macabee> with FUSE filesystems
[15:24:14] <Macabee> but you wouldn't boot from FUSE :P
[15:24:18] <trochej> ehtom: I like the way, that when you code using blessed apis, your modules written and COMPILED for solaris 8 will just load with solaris 10
[15:24:19] <oxygene> Macabee: but they're not part of the kernel design
[15:24:41] <ehtom> trochej: ok, theey're all useful features
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[15:24:53] <ehtom> trochej: so what does linux have?
[15:25:22] <oxygene> linux has a consortium of companies taking care of it. solaris is pretty much single-vendor
[15:25:40] <ehtom> i'de consider that a weakness to be honest...
[15:25:52] <oxygene> what?
[15:26:02] <trochej> ehtom: I don't know, I don't use Linux much. :)
[15:26:10] <trochej> I used to, but stopped.
[15:26:16] <xRaich[o]2x> same here
[15:26:22] <Macabee> yeah i'm ex-linux too
[15:26:25] <trochej> After I had to modify the same kernel module for fourth time
[15:26:38] <xRaich[o]2x> trochej: that was my line :D
[15:26:55] <trochej> I ain't a coder, I don't like to mess with low level parts of the system.
[15:27:13] <_Auralis> linux is like windows, it generates work form its flaws, thats why people like them so much. it keeps them busy
[15:27:13] <ehtom> oxygene: well, sun is relatively small compared to novell+ibm etc who are working on linux atm...
[15:27:16] <_Auralis> :)
[15:27:28] <edgy_> _Auralis: nonsense
[15:27:30] <ehtom> trochej: what kernel module?
[15:27:45] <ehtom> _Auralis: umm... where is the linux kernel flawed?
[15:27:47] <trochej> ehtom: For our inhome hardware
[15:27:49] <trochej> [d]
[15:28:19] <ehtom> trochej: did you open source the drivers?
[15:28:25] <oxygene> ehtom: that statement was meant to be objective
[15:28:33] <_Auralis> ehtom: how about non stable abi/api's?
[15:28:51] <ehtom> _Auralis: give an example... I know of none currently in a production kernel
[15:28:52] <edgy_> ehtom: I am newbie but would say linux has features that are not available in solaris and vice versa
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[15:29:30] <ehtom> oxygene: ok, fair statement then :P sorry
[15:29:39] <oxygene> ehtom: all APIs in linux are non-stable by definition: they're not declared stable
[15:29:50] <oxygene> ehtom: "stable" in that context doesn't mean "does not crash", but "does not change"
[15:29:58] <oxygene> ehtom: and the linux devs are very much opposed to that
[15:30:00] <ehtom> then that is a massive weakness
[15:30:03] <edgy_> ehtom: things like better hardware support are not arguable
[15:30:04] <ehtom> of solaris
[15:30:13] <xRaich[o]2x> O_o
[15:30:35] <ehtom> take the device mapper for example, that very useful part of the kernel would not exist if the linux kernel was resistant to change
[15:30:39] <oxygene> ehtom: how is it a weakness that your 8 years old driver still works in today's mercurial snapshot?
[15:30:58] <ehtom> oxygene: because tech from 8 years ago is out of date?
[15:31:04] <oxygene> both in source and binary form
[15:31:13] <edgy_> If I shutdown solaris improperly, this is a big problem in solaris, in linux no big deal, isn't it?
[15:31:24] <McBofh> ehtom: hospitals, banks, 3letter agencies tend to disagree with you
[15:31:27] <ehtom> edgy_: depends on the filesystem
[15:31:39] <oxygene> ehtom: you can _add_ APIs. just not change stuff every 3 weeks at random (as is done in linux)
[15:31:42] <ehtom> McBofh: hospitals maybe, but I know the others all use linux
[15:31:44] <edgy_> ehtom: in ext3 no problem in ufs a big problem
[15:31:53] <McBofh> ehtom: they also all use Solaris
[15:32:01] <_Auralis> edgy_: thats why ufs has logging since solaris 7
[15:32:12] <ehtom> McBofh: then how does that mean they disagree with me?
[15:32:12] <McBofh> ...and why it should be *used*
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[15:32:51] <ehtom> oxygene: api's dont change very often in linux... only when it's required
[15:32:59] <edgy_> _Auralis: and why isn't enabled by default? and how can I enable it? In linux nothing need to be done
[15:33:04] <oxygene> ehtom: so if a new technology comes along, there's a big discussion about how to integrate it properly, and then it's implemented. case closed.
[15:33:35] <oxygene> ehtom: in linux, some lonesome hacker gets the one device at hands to work and commits the beast. everyone else tries to adapt (by means of hacks) the code to their devices, too - design? nah
[15:33:44] <_Auralis> edgy_: depends on the solaris version, it is enabled by default in 10+ in erlier releases it was not enabled by default because it wwas then slower
[15:34:11] <ehtom> oxygene: you only get the "lonesome hacker" scenario for unusual devices which probably don't even have a driver in opensolaris
[15:34:21] <ehtom> major hardware isn't really a "lonesome hacker" deal
[15:34:24] <edgy_> _Auralis: I have solaris 10 latest and same problem
[15:34:34] <oxygene> ehtom: and so the scheduling API in solaris is stable for years (anyone here knows how many decades now?). when did the scheduling interface in linux change last time? march or may 2008?
[15:34:47] <Macabee> if i have a non-global zone in 2008.05 - can i pkg install within it?
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[15:35:28] <oxygene> ehtom: so why are they so resistant to stabilizing their interfaces (for the benefit of third parties), then?
[15:35:29] <ehtom> oxygene: well, yeah, scheduling, block io, etc tends to change between kernels... but presumably the scheduler was changed to make it faster? in which case that is a good thing
[15:35:52] <_Auralis> edgy_: strange, take a look at the mount output it should list logging as option for the filesystem in quesiton, if not, you can enable it with the logging option to the mount command or in the vfstab
[15:36:00] <edgy_> _Auralis: so even with logging enabled, any power cuts would require you to fsck the disk and may lose grub even
[15:36:08] <oxygene> ehtom: for solaris, a new scheduler is a module that fits in the same interface as the rest. no API change
[15:36:08] <edgy_> _Auralis: yes, it's listed
[15:36:47] <edgy_> _Auralis: I am new to solaris but I found it way too far from the stability and friendliness in linux. sorry to say that but it's my humble experience
[15:37:07] <ehtom> oxygene: linux devs don't care about accommodating third party hardware because they believe that if someone releases their drivers open source, and they're in the kernel, then it will be modified to accommodate changes anyway...
[15:37:44] <oxygene> only if you believe that "they're in the kernel" is a sustainable model
[15:37:48] <oxygene> ask nvidia about it
[15:37:48] <ehtom> oxygene: schedulers are a module in solaris? that sounds a little bit dodge
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[15:37:55] <ehtom> bleh
[15:38:03] <_Auralis> edgy_: you must be doing something wrong, or your hardware, with logigng a fsck should be very rare
[15:38:05] <ehtom> nvidia don't care about their customers imho
[15:38:19] <ehtom> if they released open source drivers it wouldn't be a problem anyway
[15:38:23] <oxygene> ehtom: let me guess: if linux starts with modular schedulers next month, you'll be a fanboy about it
[15:38:29] <oxygene> ehtom: they _can't_
[15:38:30] <edgy_> _Auralis: may be because my hardware is not in the HCL list?
[15:38:30] <xRaich[o]2x> lol
[15:38:31] <Macabee> heh
[15:38:57] <ehtom> oxygene: now you accuse me of being a fanboy? I'm simply trying to get a decent comparison of the two kernels
[15:39:09] <_Auralis> edgy_: the hcl is way old, as long as your components are supported it works
[15:39:17] <Macabee> if you were - you wouldn't poo poo everything anyone says about solaris
[15:39:24] <ehtom> why "_can't_" nvidia release their drivers open source?
[15:39:33] <Macabee> ehtom: because they don't own all the code
[15:39:35] <oxygene> ehtom: okay, let's make it short: linux good, solaris bad. we're all stupid. kthxbye
[15:39:47] <oxygene> they don't even own all the tech in their chips
[15:40:00] <Macabee> indeed
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[15:40:16] <ehtom> ati released specs...
[15:40:18] <edgy_> _Auralis: I don't know but I installed solaris 10 in a lab full of IBM machines and if any PC is shut improperly or I even used the reboot command then no way it would start without an fsck and installgrub sometimes
[15:40:22] <oxygene> which makes it hard to even do a clean rewrite (because they probably couldn't release that either, because of NDAs)
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[15:40:27] <Macabee> ehtom: yes.. and ati own all their own tech
[15:40:31] <oxygene> ehtom: ATI didn't start out as joint-venture
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[15:41:08] <Macabee> i never had a problem with solaris 10 and rebooting after a power failure, personally
[15:41:27] <_Auralis> edgy_: very strange, had something like that happend maybe once in the last 5 years, even with power failures, hard crashes or plain reboots from lazyness
[15:41:29] <ehtom> hmm, well then isn't it still nvidia's problem though? not linux'?
[15:41:30] <Macabee> usually people that have grub issues are the people that created a zfs pool really badly that blatted the root sector
[15:41:52] <oxygene> ehtom: it's linux', because linux is less usable because of its non-sustainable "everything in kernel, or doom" model
[15:41:54] <edgy_> Macabee: it seems it depends on the hardware. solaris is not tested thouroughly in various off-shelf hardware I believe
[15:42:21] <ehtom> oxygene: solaris has a modular kernel?
[15:42:28] <ehtom> i thought it was still monolithic...
[15:42:44] <oxygene> ehtom: as modular as linux. oh, and solaris ships with nvidia's official driver
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[15:42:58] <Macabee> lpackham@smegpro:~$ pfexec modinfo | wc -l
[15:42:58] <Macabee> 248
[15:43:01] <ehtom> there are binary drivers for linux...
[15:43:02] <Macabee> i'd say that's pretty modular
[15:43:03] <Macabee> :)
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[15:43:28] <ehtom> Macabee: no... thats not what I mean by monolithic vs modular kernel
[15:43:32] <oxygene> ehtom: sure, but they have to be rebuilt for every kernel release.
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[15:44:07] <ehtom> monolithic kernel means device drivers run in priveleged space, micro kernel means nearly everything is in user space
[15:44:10] <oxygene> ehtom: you probably mean microkernel instead of "modular"
[15:44:13] <ehtom> yeah
[15:44:18] <ehtom> typed the wrong word :P
[15:44:19] <oxygene> ehtom: there's no viable microkernel except for windows NT
[15:44:34] <ehtom> windows NT is a semi-sortof-maybe microkernel
[15:44:38] <ehtom> not an actual microkernel
[15:44:57] <oxygene> in that case, there is no actual microkernel out there
[15:45:34] <oxygene> they all compromise, even if it's just the clock driver
[15:45:56] <ehtom> I can see what you mean about needing to recompile every module for every different kernel build
[15:46:11] <ehtom> but 99.999% of linux users will never have to worry about it
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[15:46:28] <oxygene> pulling 9's out of your ass doesn't help your case. seriously.
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[15:46:59] <ehtom> saying oh yah we can use 8yr old hardware on a modern os!!! doesn't help yours much either :D
[15:47:26] <ehtom> s/99.999%/nearly all/;
[15:47:32] <oxygene> ehtom: if that 8 year old driver is that cisco VPN virtual network device, it's very helpful
[15:48:18] <holcomb> yeah but vi is way better than emacs
[15:48:30] <ehtom> holcomb: indeed
[15:48:37] <_Auralis> both suck ass
[15:48:49] <holcomb> HERETIC!
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[15:49:04] <edgy_> Now a test for solaris frienliness. I want to add Arabic support to my installation, how can I do it? better from GUI
[15:49:41] <ehtom> I guess the real question is does linux have better performance and better hardware support than solaris... it should do, given that, like you say, linux api's get reworked all the time
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[15:49:59] <_Auralis> add the arabic language packages and be done with it
[15:50:05] <holcomb> hardware support will never win an argument.  the os with the best hardware is support is windows
[15:50:09] <edgy_> ehtom: linux has better hardware support for sure. It's not even close
[15:50:47] <edgy_> _Auralis: how can I add it or know it's name. In linux just apt-cache search arabic would reveal it
[15:51:24] <oxygene> holcomb: except for 8 years old hardware, where linux is superior. but is was stated above that 8yrs old hardware doesn't count ;)
[15:51:36] <ehtom> holcomb: I disagree... linux has better support for most hardware than windows nowadays actually... for example most printers work on linux OOTB, wheras on vista they don't necessarily
[15:51:54] <_Auralis> point your smc to your install media and take a look, or form the comand line pkginfo -d /path/to/solaris/media |grep -i arabic
[15:51:56] <holcomb> ohhhh, so it's OOTB hardware support?
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[15:52:24] <oxygene> ehtom: the printers work, yes. with worse color support. with worse resolution settings. without the "eco" modes.
[15:52:26] <ehtom> holcomb: vista until very recently didn't even have drivers for alot of printers and video cameras
[15:52:56] <oxygene> and with manual work (editing ppds) in case you have a different device revision. been there, done that
[15:53:11] <ehtom> oxygene: a printer which is like that on linux probably doesn't even have a vista driver... or its a really cheap and nasty printer
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[15:53:52] <nitin> hi
[15:54:22] <nitin> is solaris 8 supported with brandz
[15:55:02] <ehtom> http://www.prestonlee.com/archives/121 <-- some benchmarks... the conclusion said there was no difference, although that is disk i/o
[15:55:09] <Macabee> grrr - i can't get IPS to work in a non-global zone
[15:55:18] <Macabee> just errors out
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[15:55:27] <tsoome> nitin: you can use solaris 8 in brandz zone
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[15:55:56] <Macabee> ahhhhh
[15:55:57] <Macabee> http://defect.opensolaris.org/bz/show_bug.cgi?id=3406
[15:56:02] <Macabee> brand new bug :/
[15:56:04] <Macabee> grr etc.
[15:56:38] <Macabee> ho well
[15:56:40] <Macabee> could be worse
[15:58:21] <edgy_> _Auralis: I only found a package SUNWarrf which is already installed and it's only fonts, so?
[15:59:34] <oxygene> did you select arabic at install time?
[16:00:33] <edgy_> _Auralis: if I cannot do this as easy as linux, this may give you an impression how solaris is far in usability for end users, at least, compared with GNU/Linux
[16:00:43] <edgy_> oxygene: yes
[16:01:11] <edgy_> oxygene: kbd -s won't show the arabic keyboard
[16:01:18] <oxygene> edgy_: then it should be enough to select your locale at the display manager
[16:01:25] <_Auralis> then you should be able to chose arabic form the .. what he said
[16:02:10] <edgy_> oxygene: how can I reach this display manager to change the locale?
[16:02:22] <oxygene> that's the graphical login that greets you on boot
[16:02:36] <edgy_> oxygene: is there a lang setting there?
[16:02:42] <oxygene> yes
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[16:03:24] <oxygene> ehtom: the printer in question is the brother hl2030 - these days it's even in the printer database of "openprinting" (formerly knows as linuxprinting), but still somewhat unofficial. still missing several features though. on the brother website, there's a vista driver, and while I didn't try it yet (I only have XP), I'd assume it passed their QA process.
[16:03:41] <edgy_> oxygene: I don't see arabic there. may be I made a mistake and didn't choose arabic during install, how can I do it now?
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[16:04:21] <ehtom> oxygene: ok, but 1 printer isn't a statistic
[16:04:47] <oxygene> ehtom: your hand-wavy "but vista probably doesn't support it at all" is debunked
[16:04:55] <oxygene> ehtom: that, nothing else, was my goal
[16:05:23] <ehtom> well done
[16:05:52] <oxygene> I didn't have to adjust my ignore list for such a long time that I forgot about it. trolls, meet your new neighbor!
[16:07:37] <ehtom> gotta love it how people say they're ignoring you
[16:07:44] <ehtom> its pretty special
[16:08:02] <edgy_> oxygene: any hint?
[16:08:42] <edgy_> oxygene: is adding a lang so difficult in solaris because it's meant to be a server OS not a desktop OS?
[16:09:05] <_Auralis> edgy_: SUNWarrf SUNWlang-ar SUNWlang-ar-extra SUNWttf-arabeyes  however those are from an solaris 11 dvd, not sure if all those pkgs are in sol10 as well
[16:09:11] <holcomb> localeadm(1M)
[16:09:18] <oxygene> edgy_: it's just that you need to know the package name. I didn't use solaris for 2 years now, so I'll have to remember/look up some bits first
[16:09:36] <xRaich[o]2x> ehtom: if solaris is so bad and linux is soooooooooooooooooo great. why are you here? use linux and be happy with it. EOD
[16:09:43] <edgy_> _Auralis: solaris 11? I thought solaris 10 is the latest, where can I grab that?
[16:09:56] <_Auralis> edgy_: <points to topic>
[16:10:11] <ehtom> xRaich[o]2x: argh... I never said solaris is so bad and linux is so great... i'm just trying to get an accurate picture
[16:10:29] <ehtom> and all people say is really silly things like "opensolaris works with an 8 year old binary driver so its better"
[16:10:44] <tsoome> silly?
[16:10:47] <_Auralis> ehtom: it is not silly in a corpoate environment
[16:10:57] <ehtom> yeah it is
[16:10:59] <oxygene> edgy_: solaris 11 is the opensolaris stuff - no stable release, but way more recent
[16:10:59] <edgy_> xRaich[o]2x: because I may be wrong, I am telling you my experience up to this point. But it would be unjust to judge an OS after using it for few days
[16:11:20] <oxygene> though solaris 10 got quite a few features backported
[16:11:47] <tsoome> one day you will meet real life and you will learn the value of stability
[16:11:56] <edgy_> oxygene: where can I download a dvd for 11?
[16:12:15] <ehtom> its even more silly in a corporate environment provided that compilable drivers exist and your system admin is competant
[16:12:25] <_Auralis> edgy_: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=71748&tstart=0
[16:12:56] <_Auralis> ehtom: and what if no drivers exist in code, because its some secret dohicky? then ya fucked
[16:13:14] <ehtom> well yeah
[16:13:24] <ehtom> but why would you put linux on such a device in the first place?
[16:13:44] <ehtom> some wierdo legacy 8 year old hardware should probably be run with the same software it came with...
[16:13:46] <tsoome> you will hear all the salesman talk about we are compatible. in rea life there is almost no compatible things. there are always some differences
[16:14:30] <_Auralis> or the sit when your old system broke down, was stolen whatever, and all you have left is the software on some media and a new system?
[16:14:33] <ehtom> its not like you're gonna buy a new blade, put linux on it, then try to attach some 8 year old dongle
[16:14:59] <edgy_> _Auralis: thanks for the link, I would install that and see if Arabic support is added
[16:15:33] <edgy_> _Auralis: in linux I can use locate to find files quickly from the database, what's the alternative in solaris?
[16:15:34] <xRaich[o]2x> edgy_: i didn't talk to you, or did i? ^^ well, pick what rocks your boat. i used linux for over a decade and switched to solaris when it sun published indiana. it's a matter of what you want to do with your computer.
[16:16:10] <tsoome> edgy_:  install locate and fucking shut up
[16:16:23] <_Auralis> edgy_: god old find, locale is pretty broken, if you want, install slocate, offers the same functionality but does it better
[16:17:05] <ehtom> _Auralis: obviously if you have some 8 year old stuff which ran on solaris, and it got stolen... you wouldn't try something silly like putting it on linux but thats a unique situation
[16:17:27] <edgy_> xRaich[o]2x: yes sorry I thought you are talking to me but in all cases I didn't like the 'go use it then' attitude
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[16:18:10] <ehtom> but I guess you're talking about a situation where you have hardware, which you only have a binary linux driver for a particular kernel for
[16:18:22] <_Auralis> ehtom: now you got it
[16:18:22] <ehtom> and yeah, no chance I would set up a server using linux in that situation
[16:18:27] <ehtom> it'd be completely stupid
[16:18:28] <edgy_> tsoome: I guess you can say this in a friendlier way. You are not born expert
[16:18:38] <ehtom> but that kind of situation is extremely rare these days
[16:19:13] <tsoome> it does need some years in kindergarden and scool to learn to use your brain.
[16:19:18] <tsoome> school*
[16:19:28] <xRaich[o]2x> edgy_: i just can't hear this "but linux does it this way, so it has to be the right one" anymore stuff. it's getting old. I mean it's an operating system not a fscking religion.
[16:19:41] <holcomb> god what is with the flames lately?  must be the election bring it out in people.
[16:19:43] <_Auralis> xRaich[o]2x: you sure? :)
[16:19:56] <oxygene> linux is a religion. well, more like a cult
[16:20:10] <oxygene> which election?
[16:20:10] <Stric> holcomb: what election?
[16:20:23] <edgy_> tsoome: and it need some years in kindergarten and school and living among good people to learn how to improve your manners which is more important than to improve your knowledge
[16:20:34] <ehtom> http://tweakers.net/reviews/649/9 <-- that says solaris is faster... but they used ubuntu server and a wierd setup
[16:20:46] <ehtom> argh... why are there no good benchmarks
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[16:21:08] <tsoome> well they did compare ubuntu with solaris.
[16:21:18] <tsoome> nothing more, nothing less.
[16:21:25] <_Auralis> ehtom: a stbale kernel abi also has other advantages, take the nvidia drivers, a stbale abi lessens the burdon to support them, since you don't have to create a new driver for each kernel version, however small the change, or just a recompile. it makes it easier, more attraxtive for companies to support the platform if they don't have to do that.
[16:21:27] <holcomb> because it's not about faster.  it's about philosophy.  solaris is architected, linux is organically grown.  take your pick.
[16:21:31] <oxygene> yeah, rather have good mannered cavemen than those pesky grumpy intellectuals ;)
[16:21:52] <Macabee> benchmarks are like iq tests
[16:22:08] <xRaich[o]2x> Macabee: good analogy ;)
[16:22:20] <ehtom> _Auralis: yeah that is very useful
[16:22:23] <Macabee> i never care for them
[16:22:27] <oxygene> hmm.. iq tests _are_ benchmarks
[16:22:34] <Macabee> iq tests test how good you are at...
[16:22:36] <Macabee> iq tests
[16:22:52] <ehtom> _Auralis: however... in theory if the linux devs can change the kernel as much as they like, it *should* be much better optimized
[16:22:53] <xRaich[o]2x> exactly
[16:22:55] <Macabee> all a benchmark tests is how good something is at that benchmark test
[16:23:12] <edgy_> oxygene: better to have one with both, not contradictions
[16:23:31] <oxygene> edgy_: pesky grumpy cavemen? nah ;)
[16:23:57] <edgy_> oxygene: ;)
[16:24:18] <tsoome> we got a uni client asking for compute farm. they included a doc with specint numbers for specific intel cpu's. there was no reference to actual server, where those numbers were achieved. obviously the first thing i did was to throw those numbers to bin....
[16:24:20] <edgy_> _Auralis: I don't see an iso in the link. do I need to download source and build it or what?
[16:25:24] <ehtom> ibm have a paper about db2 + redhat enterprise being the fastest database... still not a benchmark
[16:26:09] <edgy_> _Auralis: sorry forget it, I made a mistake
[16:26:19] <_Auralis> edgy_: the first link takes you to the opensolaris how to get all the stuff page, step 3a how to start, select the version you want, cd or dvd, the link takes you to the sun download center, login and grab you files
[16:28:23] <edgy_> _Auralis: I see now there is a image-update command that can upgrade my 10 to 11, which is fantastic
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[16:30:37] <_Auralis> edgy_: look into liveupdate, its neat, allows you to install a new version while the system keep sruning, and after the instal is done, you can reboot into either as you like
[16:31:30] <edgy_> _Auralis: more fantastic
[16:31:37] <ehtom> maybe I should do some benchmarks :S
[16:33:34] <edgy_> _Auralis: any link better than http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/features/articles/using_lu.jsp for a tutorial in live update
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[16:34:12] <hile_> hey auralis
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[16:36:02] <_Auralis> edgy_: well, theres always docs.sun.com but it can be overkill since it basicaly holds ALL sun docs that are public
[16:36:33] <e^ipi> and it's indexed
[16:36:41] <edgy_> _Auralis: ok I will figure it from that doc, then. thanks a lot for all the help
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[17:41:03] <t_[^^]z> my sun box is trying to boot to the wrong partition. I've done this so far to fix it
[17:41:39] <t_[^^]z> I did a show-disks and pressed a to select the correct disk, but the thing is it aliased mydev to .../disk
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[17:41:58] <t_[^^]z> shouldn't this be aliased to .../disk@0,0    ?
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[17:42:20] <t_[^^]z> and then also how do I set this as the value for boot-device ?
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[17:42:56] <lewq> hey everyone - i'm running 2008-05, and it seems to have vncserver installed, but not vncviewer - i can't find anywhere how to install the vncviewer client, any ideas?
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[17:46:06] <sactodave> Does anyone have a good HOWTO on setting up scanning with an all-in-one printer like HP Officejet 6210
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[18:04:53] <TomJ> does anyone know what exactly fmadm reports on by default in x86?  I've only ever seen it show zpool failures so far
[18:05:04] <t_[^^]z> ok I'm able to boot by doing a boot /pci@.....@0,0   but when I try to alias this and then boot the alias name it doesn't work... how do I do this correctly?
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[18:09:40] <tsoome> tomj you can check modules with fmadm config
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[18:10:58] <TomJ> oh thanks
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[18:12:30] <t_[^^]z> anyone at all know how to set the boot-disk to boot from an alias
[18:12:53] <TomJ> hum what does it mean when fmstat reports a huge svc_t?
[18:12:54] <TomJ> disk-transport           0       0  1.0 601413.9  95   0     0     0    32b      0
[18:13:04] <tsoome> setenv boot-disk alias1 alias2 alias3
[18:13:10] <TomJ> is that indicative of a problem talking to that module or something?
[18:13:23] <Fullmoon> How can I create the default files in a home directory after creating a new folder?
[18:13:47] <TomJ> Fullmoon: useradd -m -d /export/home/blah blah
[18:13:49] <tsoome> man useradd
[18:13:52] <TomJ> the -m uses the files in /etc/skel I think
[18:13:55] <t_[^^]z> ok and how do I set the alias
[18:13:55] <TomJ> you can customise them there
[18:13:56] <tsoome> man smuser
[18:13:59] <Fullmoon> Great, thanks, the m it is :)
[18:14:13] <t_[^^]z> because typing in boot /pci.... works but when I type boot OSdisk (my alias), it doesn't
[18:14:44] <tsoome> you have internal disks set up in mirror?
[18:15:13] <t_[^^]z> dont know what that means
[18:15:34] <t_[^^]z> I want to automatically boot to the right disk: /pci@....@0,0
[18:15:39] <t_[^^]z> I don't really care how it's done
[18:15:56] <tsoome> there are disks inside the server (internal) and disks connected to server via scsi/fc whatever
[18:17:11] <tsoome> for internal disks there are usually aliases created already, like disk0, disk1 etc
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[18:17:43] <edgy__> who -r shows 3 1 2, I know the first 3 means the current runlevel, and the 2 I guess the previous runlevel but what about the 1 in the middle
[18:18:48] <t_[^^]z> ok let me check with printenv or w/e =]
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[18:24:33] <t_[^^]z> sorry what's the command to look for these aliases
[18:24:37] <t_[^^]z> disk0, et
[18:24:58] <jbk> devalias
[18:26:53] <t_[^^]z> yeah, the one which is set is called osdisk
[18:27:06] <t_[^^]z> the other closest one doesn't have the last ,0
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[18:28:57] <t_[^^]z> maybe because it changed to lower case here and not when assigned to boot-disk
[18:29:05] <t_[^^]z> that's probably the problem
[18:29:07] <codestr0m> anyone building git on os2008?
[18:31:03] <t_[^^]z> weird now I can't do  setenv boot-disk osdisk
[18:31:17] <t_[^^]z> Unknown option: boot-disk
[18:31:44] <t_[^^]z> oh it's device
[18:31:48] <_Auralis> its boot-device
[18:33:01] <kito> how can I force a reinstall of an IPS pkg?
[18:33:11] <t_[^^]z> so basically this machine without telling anyone just changes your value to lowercase in one place and lets you input it as uppercase in another
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[18:35:27] <codestr0m> kito: no clean reinstall. uninstall and install again
[18:36:09] <codestr0m> if you need to fix something I have a script given to me by another dev
[18:36:54] <kito> codestr0m ok thanks, but is there a way to uninstall a pkg temporarily without also uninstalling its deps?
[18:37:30] <codestr0m> if you find out I'd love to know
[18:37:41] <kito> hehe
[18:37:47] <kito> that makes me a little sad
[18:38:32] <codestr0m> kito: IPS is at a state where as they say "patches welcome"
[18:41:01] <kito> fair enough
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[18:42:10] <codestr0m> yeah. sorry. I can give you the script to fix things.. tell you how to do it manually.. , but I can't give a proper way atm
[18:42:23] <edgy> Is there a command called .version on the ok prompt? where can I find docs for all the commands?
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[18:44:34] <t_[^^]z> can anyone help me connect to a san with my box?
[18:44:45] <t_[^^]z> I mean what do I have to do exactly to mount it?
[18:45:03] <jbk> if you have sun hbas
[18:45:06] <jbk> cfgadm -al
[18:45:13] <jbk> you should see the wwn of the arrays
[18:45:21] <jbk> cfgadm -c configure cXX
[18:45:51] <coffman> can somebody tell if the freetype version in b97 is 2.3.7 now?
[18:46:10] <coffman> http://bugs.opensolaris.org/bugdatabase/view_bug.do?bug_id=6737922 says it should be, but there is nothing in the changelog
[18:49:47] <t_[^^]z> having a little trouble seeing which is the san
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[18:50:06] <jbk> is it FC-AL or fabric?
[18:50:07] <codestr0m> edgy: I've forgotten where now, but there's a file in /etc/ containing the version info.. someone else in here may speak up
[18:50:38] <t_[^^]z> fc-al
[18:51:05] <jbk> then probably just see things with targets > 16
[18:51:34] <edgy> codestr0m: I don't want to know the solaris version. the .version command should give the firmware version I believe
[18:51:48] <edgy> codestr0m: do you have a sparc handy?
[18:52:00] <jbk> but pastebin the output of cfgadm -al
[18:52:00] <t_[^^]z> pastebin: http://nopaste.com/p/aHuigNVBo
[18:52:11] * t_[^^]z psychic
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[18:52:33] <edgy> can any one here with a sparc processor try the .version command in the ok prompt and paste me the output?
[18:53:18] <jbk> t_[^^]z: it looks like the stuff on c2 are fc
[18:53:20] <t_[^^]z> I will after I get this going
[18:53:50] <t_[^^]z> so how do I mount and access that, and set it to mount automatically?
[18:54:13] <t_[^^]z> btw thanks
[18:54:18] <jbk> well what filesystem do you want to use?
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[18:54:50] <jbk> maybe do (just to be sure) cfgadm -c configure c2; devfsadm then ls -l /dev/dsk/c2* to see what devices are seen
[18:55:27] <jbk> once you do that, the devices should be visible across reboots, then it's the normal procedures for mounting filesystems at boot time (/etc/vfstab, or just the properties if zfs)
[18:55:51] <t_[^^]z> a huge list scrolling by
[18:56:04] <jbk> might try /dev/dsk/c2*s2
[18:56:39] <t_[^^]z> can I try to mount it and see if there's any information on it?
[18:56:53] <jbk> sure
[18:56:59] <t_[^^]z> how would I do that
[18:57:08] <jbk> mount
[18:57:11] <jbk> also
[18:57:17] <jbk> you could run the format command
[18:57:24] <jbk> and select one of the c2 disks
[18:57:28] <t_[^^]z> mkdir /san ; mount ??? /san
[18:57:32] <jbk> and see if it comes back
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[18:57:42] <jbk> well it depends on how it's partitioned
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[19:06:09] <t_[^^]z> ok there's one 2.5+ tb raid 5 and there's 2 350g partitions, I want to only mount the first one, and the data can be wiped. however the 350s need to be preserved. also there may be access only granted to the 2.5 anyways
[19:07:10] <jbk> what filesystem is on it?
[19:07:14] <t_[^^]z> so in other words I need to find out if it's a 2.5tb slice and if it is, I can just wipe it
[19:07:26] <t_[^^]z> I'll just make a new zfs on it
[19:07:51] <t_[^^]z> to answer your question I have no idea what's on it now
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[19:11:29] <TomJ> any particular difference in using zfs send | zfs receive  versus rsync?  It's a simple filesystem with no snapshots, no dependent file systems, so really my only criteria is speed
[19:12:19] <coffman> TomJ: well, it might only work between the same versions of zfs
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[19:13:17] <seanmcg> rsync may not preserve acls
[19:13:23] <TomJ> true
[19:14:54] <e^ipi> s/may/almost certainly does/g
[19:17:41] <t_[^^]z> anyone feel like helping me on the last solaris thing I need help with? as mentioned above? =]
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[19:30:00] <trochej> 2008_snv97 installation. Fourth try.
[19:30:21] <dosiu> :)
[19:31:14] <trochej> :)
[19:32:44] <Macabee> 97 is ok for me - other than the fact zones don't work
[19:32:52] <Macabee> other than ... 'that' - everything is peachy
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[19:33:41] <trochej> Macabee: Zones don't work?
[19:33:43] <trochej> Fuck
[19:34:00] <Macabee> pkg inside a non-global zone borks for me
[19:34:00] <dosiu> :)
[19:34:18] <Macabee> i think related to http://defect.opensolaris.org/bz/show_bug.cgi?id=3406
[19:34:32] <Macabee> ahh - its accepted now
[19:34:33] <Macabee> :)
[19:34:34] <Macabee> ecellent
[19:35:10] <trochej> Fuck, to say it again.
[19:35:19] <trochej> I get fucekd by installer.
[19:35:19] <Macabee> you just like saying it lots?
[19:35:24] <trochej> Thre times in a row.
[19:35:28] <Macabee> weird
[19:35:29] <trochej> Every time a different way
[19:35:36] <Macabee> RAM fault?
[19:35:41] <trochej> Nope.
[19:36:20] <trochej> Checked it.
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[19:45:24] <codestr0m> I'm missing something. what's this zfs+ or zfs2
[19:45:29] <codestr0m> doesn't look like it's from sun
[19:46:15] <trochej> Erm?
[19:46:20] <trochej> Any link?
[19:47:11] <t_[^^]z> I have a san connected to my machine. It has a 2.5tb slice and 2 350gb slices which I may not have access to anyways. I want to wipe the 2.5tb completely and make a zfs fs on it, mount it and set to auto-mount. Can anyone help me out here?
[19:47:25] <e^ipi> t_[^^]z: /topic.
[19:47:30] <e^ipi> it's quite clearly documented.
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[19:51:07] <SYS64738> will xVM Ops Center be in next release of sxce?
[19:51:26] <e^ipi> i think the next build rolls in a couple days, so i doubt it
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[19:52:32] <SYS64738> and what about the next next release ?  :)
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[19:53:23] <e^ipi> what, solaris 11 ?
[19:53:27] <e^ipi> maybe, who knows
[19:53:53] <trochej> codestr0m: What zfs+/zfs2?
[19:53:57] <e^ipi> you have about the same idea about what's going on with the next commercial release of solaris as I do
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[19:59:43] <SYS64738> e^ipi, no I mean will ops center in some of the next sxce ?
[19:59:48] <jbk> heh
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[20:00:00] <jbk> i just saw a blog entry referencing 'crucial conversations'
[20:00:05] * jbk shakes his head
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[20:01:38] <t_[^^]z> haven't found how to determine the sizes of these partitions
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[20:03:11] <evocallaghan> Hmm, that's not a bad idea
[20:03:22] <evocallaghan> Putting Ops Center into SXCE
[20:04:16] <e^ipi> t_[^^]z: man -s 1M format
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[20:05:24] <e^ipi> i haven't mucked with ops centre at all
[20:06:47] <e^ipi> i know very little about it unfortunately
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[20:11:08] <t_[^^]z> I'm looking to find out which partition it is
[20:11:16] <t_[^^]z> format /dev/???
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[20:18:03] <e^ipi> man -s 1M format
[20:18:25] <e^ipi> you'll notice all the options are optional
[20:18:36] <e^ipi> take that information and run with it
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[20:22:06] <codestr0m> trochej:  http://www.green-bytes.com/gumballfinal.mov
[20:26:06] <t_[^^]z> yeah ok I've gotten a bit further thanks
[20:26:48] <t_[^^]z> however, the san is set up for 1 2.5tb and 2 350gb exports, but here I see 6 disks, 5 of which look the same and 1 looks different
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[20:27:51] <theRealBall> hi
[20:28:00] <theRealBall> what is kernel locking?
[20:28:12] <trochej> Wow
[20:29:40] <theRealBall> oh got it
[20:29:46] <theRealBall> for smp
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[20:40:41] <edgy> Hi, if where do I find failed ssh logins in my logs?
[20:40:51] <RavenSlay3r> SunStudio-Express on SXCE has crashed on me several times this week, locking-up the entire desktop/keyboard/mouse forcing me to hit the powerbutton.
[20:40:52] <edgy> Hi, where do I find failed ssh logins in my logs?
[20:41:03] <RavenSlay3r> Is there anything else I can try, before rebooting?
[20:43:26] <alanc> Ctrl-Alt-Backspace to kill the Xserver or ssh in from another system would be less drastic than rebooting if you can
[20:45:55] <evocallaghan> RavenSlay3r:Has the kernel core dumped ?
[20:46:07] <RavenSlay3r> Alanc: Thanks, i've tried both at some point this week and didn't have any luck but will test SSH now just to make sure it's working.
[20:46:28] <RavenSlay3r>  Under linux there were some arcane sys-request keyboard commands for when all-else failed - does solaris have any such thing?
[20:46:48] <RavenSlay3r> evocallaghan: I don't know. How would I check?
[20:47:20] <evocallaghan> ls /var/crash
[20:48:15] <evocallaghan> RavenSlay3r:Do you have the latest BIOS version? Have you tried looking at pfexec fmadm faulty
[20:48:27] <evocallaghan> Is there any funny messages in dmesg ?
[20:50:02] <RavenSlay3r> evocallaghan: /var/crash is empty. I'll have to check on the BIOS revision,
[20:51:58] <RavenSlay3r>  pfexec fmadm faulty - gives one 'critical' hit, looks like it's against the nVidia Quadro, but it's dated August 30th
[20:52:40] <RavenSlay3r> As it happens i'm doing OpenGL so a gfx card problem would make sense but it does work MOST of the time..
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[20:55:04] <evocallaghan> RavenSlay3r:man fmadm
[20:55:15] <evocallaghan> RavenSlay3r:Sounds like your Video card is faulty
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[20:55:42] <codestr0m> btw. earlier my comment about zfs+/zfs2 came from the zfs-discuss ml.. which had the link to that video/site
[20:55:51] <evocallaghan> RavenSlay3r:Swap it out and return the old one, better safe then sorry
[20:56:14] <codestr0m> trochej: ^
[20:56:19] <trochej> codestr0m: Thnx
[20:58:37] * evocallaghan is off to bed
[20:59:25] <RavenSlay3r> evocallaghan: thanks - not what i was hoping to hear, but better to discover while it's under warenty
[20:59:48] <evocallaghan> RavenSlay3r:No problem
[21:00:04] <evocallaghan> RavenSlay3r:Out of interest could you stick the output onto rafb please
[21:00:10] <evocallaghan> I would not mind having a look
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[21:00:26] <RavenSlay3r> rafb? is that like the postbin thingy?
[21:01:12] <evocallaghan> yea
[21:01:23] <evocallaghan> http://rafb.net/paste/
[21:01:39] <evocallaghan> RavenSlay3r:^
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[21:02:23] <RavenSlay3r> http://rafb.net/p/b78Cwp32.html
[21:03:12] <RavenSlay3r> evocallaghan: New Sun Ultra 40-M2, only PCI card is a single nVidia Quadro 1700
[21:03:40] <evocallaghan> http://www.sun.com/msg/PCIEX-8000-3S
[21:03:50] <evocallaghan> Hmm
[21:03:56] <evocallaghan> Thats a shame!
[21:04:28] <evocallaghan> Atleast you can see the problem str8 away with fmadm :D
[21:04:32] <evocallaghan> Very good !
[21:05:01] <RavenSlay3r> So in english that means email my sun sales-rep with that message and till him to fix it?
[21:05:27] <RavenSlay3r> *tell him...
[21:06:35] <evocallaghan> Send http://rafb.net/p/b78Cwp32.html conent in your email and explain your Xorg was frezzing
[21:06:55] <evocallaghan> and you only have a video card so you are sure this is the problem
[21:07:02] <RavenSlay3r> ok
[21:08:05] <RavenSlay3r> http://rafb.net/p/voqkBS97.html
[21:08:33] <sactodave> Can anyone tell me why when I run: pkg refresh --full it give a usage error, but it clearly list that as a usage option.  b95 going to 97 btw
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[21:09:04] <RavenSlay3r> thanks for the help evocallaghan
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[21:09:16] <evocallaghan> sactodave:Just do a pkg refresh
[21:09:42] <evocallaghan> RavenSlay3r:Your very welcome ;)
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[21:16:36] * codestr0m *joys* at porting software from Linux
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[21:18:44] <codestr0m> I mean. even small things like biosdisk from dell.. the mount script uses -t where solaris expects -F
[21:18:58] <codestr0m> why it's not the same between the two.. I can't imagine
[21:19:52] <codestr0m> not -F (looking again)
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[21:22:31] <codestr0m> mount -F vfat /tmp/M2300A07.img /tmp/biosdisk.oqaOfJ -o loop
[21:22:40] <codestr0m> that's what I'm trying to fix
[21:23:26] <_mary_kate_> mount -Fvfat `lofiadm -a /tmp/M2300A07.img` /tmp/biosdisk.oqaOfJ
[21:23:55] <_Auralis> lofiadm -a /tmp/M2300A07.img; mount -F pcfs /dev/lofi/1 /where/ever
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[21:24:15] <codestr0m> thanks _mary_kate_ and _Auralis
[21:24:15] <jbk> actually i thought with newer ON builds, you could do that in one step
[21:24:25] <_mary_kate_> right, pcfs.. i never use that crappy fs ;)
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[21:35:27] <codestr0m> lofiadm: could not map file /tmp/M2300A07.img: Device busy
[21:35:52] <codestr0m> normally I'd use something like lsof to find out why it's busy
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[21:37:56] <codestr0m> lofiadm -d /dev/lofi/1
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[22:05:31] <codestr0m> I need help..  I restored the grub package (which overwrote install_menu) to it's default and now it won't boot..  if I leave it for serveral minutes I end up getting a message like svc.startd... svv:/system/filesystem/root:default? Method or service exit timed out.  Killing contract
[22:06:15] <e^ipi> and then after you booted verbose and set the kernel to invoke kmdb  rather than reboot, you got what?
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[22:10:00] <codestr0m> e^ipi: adding verbosity made it obvious.. it was looking at my external storage as root..
[22:10:02] <codestr0m> thanks
[22:10:24] <codestr0m> is that normal and how do I make it not do that
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[22:13:16] <codestr0m> also /boot/grub/install_menu doesn't actually seem to be controlling the boot options
[22:14:01] <seanmcg> well that could be since its the menu for when installing ?
[22:14:16] <seanmcg> perhaps you want to look at menu.lst ?
[22:15:50] <codestr0m> seanmcg: not there.. yeah that was the first thing I looked for
[22:16:48] <codestr0m> I thought it was a sun difference. I'll add it and go from there
[22:16:59] <codestr0m> not sure how it got deleted
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[22:18:57] <seanmcg> got a copy on another BE ?
[22:19:50] <codestr0m> I removed the other BE and did clean-up.. when it boots there's two menu items.. I'll add the file again
[22:21:32] <codestr0m> for what it's worth.. I just checked 2nd laptop which only has 1 BE and default install and there's no menu.lst in /boot/grub/ either
[22:22:00] <seanmcg> you don't have zfs root by any chance ?
[22:22:28] <codestr0m> yes.. both are using zfs root
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[22:23:21] <seanmcg_> codestr0m, menu.lst on zfs root isn't in /boot/grub :)
[22:23:40] <seanmcg_>  (got disconnected from me other xchat )
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[22:26:22] <codestr0m> seanmcg_: ok. looks like I found it at /rpoot/boot/grub/menu.lst
[22:26:33] <codestr0m> rpool?
[22:26:51] <seanmcg_> yup, thats it.  sorry, disconnects and not having zfs root here to check ..
[22:27:54] <codestr0m> np... you put me on the right track.. I mean.. sometimes it's frustrating how non-intuitive something things are.. or maybe I'm just missing the boat
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[22:38:26] <_setuid_H> Evening all
[22:38:54] <_setuid_H> Does anybody know if there is a free pascal compiler for opensolaris?
[22:39:11] <_setuid_H> I tried to build fpc but I didn't succeded
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[23:01:16] <codestr0m> anyone know if it's possible to just create a symlink from elf_i386.x to elf_i386 and have it do the same thing
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[23:07:10] <_setuid_H> Ok good night guys
[23:07:27] * _setuid_H is closing eyes
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[23:18:45] <codestr0m> btw.. when the linker tries to call elf_i386 you just have to put the gnu-ld in front of the path..
[23:19:21] <codestr0m> there may be some configure option, but too lazy to look
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[23:24:36] * codestr0m makes a note there's no endian.h on solaris
[23:24:56] <jbk> there's byteorder.h
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[23:31:22] <e^ipi> hey, if i had a III and a IIICu in the same machine, what sort of error would I expect?
[23:31:44] <e^ipi> let's assume CPU0 is the III and CPU1 is the IIICu
[23:31:48] <e^ipi> does this look right: CPU FRU access failed, Using ver@
[23:31:48] <e^ipi> CPU seeprom format: 0000.0000.0000.0003
[23:31:48] <e^ipi> RED State Exception
[23:31:49] <e^ipi> CPU: 0000.0000.0000.0000
[23:38:44] <codestr0m> compiling syslinux is going a lot better than I expected... now I'm getting an Assmebler messages: ccF8ayxr.s:36: Error: unbalanced parenthesis in operand 1.
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[23:47:51] <jeremyz> how does one show the available disk drives?
[23:48:22] <bigjohnto> available as in whats connected?
[23:48:37] <e^ipi> man format
[23:49:08] <jeremyz> e^ipi: as usual, thanks
[23:50:04] <bda> format and iostat -En are the two usual ways.
[23:50:08] <bda> cfgadm -al is also useful.
[23:56:10] <ballChalk> format -e
[23:56:35] <bda> Heh.
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