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[00:22:21] <leal> hello there!
[00:22:51] <leal> somebody to talk a little bit about zfs?
[00:24:24] <turtle> okay
[00:24:27] <turtle> zfs is neato i like it
[00:24:29] <e^ipi> metaquestions are silly
[00:24:36] <e^ipi> just ask your question directly
[00:24:38] <turtle> it has THREE letters and the first one is Z
[00:24:43] <turtle> that usually makes things really cool
[00:24:48] <turtle> like Zeus and shit
[00:24:51] <e^ipi> turtle: "zed" or "zee"?
[00:25:35] <e^ipi> i'm canadian, so it's usually "zed-eff-ess", but curiously i pronounce raidz and brandz as "raid-zee" and "brand-zee"
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[00:26:10] <turtle> zee all the way
[00:26:40] <leal> In a default zpool 128k recordsize, a 512k file uses how many blocks for pointers?
[00:26:59] <turtle> a zillion
[00:28:24] <e^ipi> if you have baskets that can hold 128 apples, and you have 512 apples... how many baskets do you need
[00:28:31] <e^ipi> what is this, 1st grade math test?
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[00:29:00] <leal> No, i just want to know if is 1:1 relation...
[00:29:31] <leal> I think if somebody knows something and wants to help, does not need to say that...
[00:29:59] <tomww> there are different types for storing the file
[00:30:22] <leal> The block pointer has which size?
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[00:30:49] <leal> I don't know if one block pointer holds the address for many data files...
[00:30:53] <tomww> if the file is small, then zfs meta data and the file content are stored in one, other combinations are several pointers to ohter blocks and so on. the zfs on-disk document describes that very nice
[00:31:20] <tomww> you might forget thinking in old filesystem sctructures if you look at zfs's ways
[00:31:27] <leal> I just want to know in cow how many blocks needs to be rewritten for metadata update.
[00:32:19] <blocked6667> I am having trouble installing opensolaris on a t2000, I am just lost here I need some help
[00:32:24] <leal> I'm reading the zfs on-disk format, but i'm here to talk and maybe get some answers..
[00:32:33] <jbk> blocked6667: opensolaris or sxce?
[00:32:52] <blocked6667> I think CE
[00:33:00] <blocked6667> http://nopaste.com/p/aUyl0tR4rb
[00:33:05] <blocked6667> that is the install text
[00:33:08] <tomww> I really think you might find most of the answers in the zfs on-disk-doc
[00:33:28] <jbk> ok what's the problem
[00:33:30] <blocked6667> when it's done installing , I get back to a prompt asking me to log in, but it's the OLD hostname
[00:33:39] <blocked6667> and the new password doesnt work
[00:33:49] <jbk> it's probably booting off a different disk
[00:34:17] <jbk> at the ok prompt, run 'devalias'
[00:34:31] <jbk> you'll see 'disk /pci@....' 'disk1 /pci@.....' etc.
[00:34:37] <blocked6667> at the ok prompt?
[00:34:56] <jbk> yes
[00:35:05] <blocked6667> I can't get there it just asks me for a password
[00:35:11] <jbk> if you send a break on the console
[00:35:17] <blocked6667> I don't know the old log in info
[00:35:20] <jbk> it'll drop you to the ok prompt
[00:35:32] <blocked6667> it drops me to a sc> prompt
[00:35:41] <jbk> is there a command 'break'
[00:35:45] <jbk> ?
[00:35:51] <leal> Interesting, a 1st grade math test did not get an answer. ;)
[00:36:09] <jbk> (sun has 99589054 different loms, i can't remember which one the t2000 uses)
[00:36:16] <blocked6667> yeah there's a break command, it just basically takes me to the sc> prompt again
[00:36:35] <blocked6667> there is an ok prompt normally, i do console -f to get to it
[00:36:38] <jbk> if you run it, then go back to the console, you should hopefully have the {ok} prompt
[00:36:47] <blocked6667> but right now when I try to go to console it asks me for a pw
[00:36:47] <jbk> you need to get to that
[00:37:01] <blocked6667> ahh yes
[00:37:04] <blocked6667> very nice thanks
[00:37:11] <jbk> run devalias
[00:37:18] <blocked6667> ok I see many devices
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[00:37:29] <jbk> and find out which alias looks like 'disk@4' (assuming the one you pasted is where you installed)
[00:37:43] <jbk> err wait t40?
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[00:37:48] <jbk> do you have san connected to this?
[00:37:53] <blocked6667> yeah
[00:38:05] <jbk> is c1t40d5 where you installed it before?
[00:38:13] <blocked6667> yeah
[00:38:22] <blocked6667> it was the only disk which looked different from the rest
[00:38:22] <jbk> cause that probably means you installed it to your san :)
[00:38:34] <blocked6667> shiet
[00:38:42] <jbk> well it'll probably still boot
[00:38:55] <blocked6667> I don't want that
[00:39:02] <jbk> well pick a different device then
[00:39:16] <blocked6667> this is what I want to do: destroy all data on this computer, and install this os
[00:39:18] <jbk> solaris devices are c<controller>t<target>d<lun>
[00:39:29] <jbk> well you have to tell it where to install
[00:39:38] <jbk> if you have 4 interal drives, the t2000 can boot of any of them
[00:39:45] <jbk> as well as san (in certain instances)
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[00:40:07] <jbk> so all the internal drives probably have the same controller
[00:40:16] <jbk> probably c0, but not always
[00:40:39] <jbk> so you'll see cXt0d0, cXt1d0, cXt2d0, cXt3d0
[00:40:48] <jbk> normally you'll want target 0
[00:40:59] <jbk> that's probably the default device
[00:41:01] <blocked6667> alright thanks for the info
[00:41:03] <jbk> at the ok prompt
[00:41:08] <jbk> if you type 'printenv'
[00:41:14] <jbk> it'll spit out a bunch of info
[00:41:17] <blocked6667> you have just been more helpful than anyone from the sun world has ever been to me
[00:41:42] <blocked6667> hard coming from linux guys, ok?
[00:41:43] <jbk> 'boot-device' lists the devices it will try to boot from (if diag-switch? is true, it'll use the value of diag-device instead)
[00:41:54] <jbk> actually none of this is specific to solaris :)
[00:42:02] <jbk> it's just sparc firmware
[00:42:09] <jbk> so for the boot devices
[00:42:14] <jbk> these can be hardware paths
[00:42:15] <jbk> or aliases
[00:42:18] <jbk> by default
[00:42:20] <jbk> they're aliases
[00:42:26] <jbk> and look like 'disk' 'disk1' etc.
[00:42:38] <jbk> the devalias command will show you the alias -> hw path mappings
[00:43:15] <jbk> the hardware path looks like /pci at xx,xxxxxxx/ dot ...../disk@NN[:ss] (the :ss might not be there)
[00:43:20] <jbk> NN is the target# in hex
[00:43:32] <jbk> some other useful tips:
[00:43:58] <jbk> (you use setenv parameter value to change stuff shown in printenv)
[00:44:24] <jbk> setting auto-boot? to false will after a reboot drop the system to the ok prompt and not automatically boot
[00:44:26] <e^ipi> blocked6667: that's not fair, i was plenty helpful to you :(
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[00:44:55] <jbk> probe-scsi-all will scan all the scsi & fibre channel buses and show you what it sees (but can only be done after the system is reset -- it will often hang otherwise)
[00:45:03] <jbk> to reset the system from the ok prompt, use 'reset-all'
[00:45:37] <jbk> if auto-boot? is true, you'll want to run the break command around the time it's initalizing memory and before it says something about the boot device if you want to run probe-scsi-all
[00:46:38] <jbk> but now i'm going home :)
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[00:47:21] <seanmcg> don't forget forth.. jdk
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[00:48:34] <blocked6667> haha.. you might want to look at this cool website
[00:48:36] <blocked6667> http://www.hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet.com/
[00:48:48] <_setuid_H> Hi All
[00:48:48] <norman> Nope.
[00:49:24] <_setuid_H> colorful bitchx is nicer than the very unstable pidgin ;-)
[00:49:45] <blocked6667> pidgin for irc?
[00:50:18] <_setuid_H> blocked6667: well I used it for irc too. I dislike to run more application for one category like "chat"
[00:50:43] <_setuid_H> blocked6667: Unfortunately there are still some icq users in my list :-(
[00:51:29] <rab> in Nevada, libXm.so is in /usr/dt/lib. Where is this library in opensolaris?
[00:51:55] * blocked6667 wishes irssi would work with jabber
[00:51:57] <_setuid_H> rab: I'm afraid of non-include of this package
[00:52:25] <rab> do you mean that the package isn't available for opensolaris? or can I install it using pkg(5)?
[00:52:26] <_setuid_H> rab: Sun want's to get rid of cde, motif &etc.
[00:52:37] <_setuid_H> rab: yes you can
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[00:53:04] <_setuid_H> rab: s/want's/wants
[00:53:24] <_setuid_H> rab: I'm one of cde users ;-)
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[00:53:27] <rab> <empty>
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[00:53:51] <_setuid_H> rab: you have to use pkgadd command and get the package from sxce media
[00:54:03] <seanmcg> libXm.so isn't redistributable...
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[00:54:34] <_setuid_H> tsoome: If it's necesary ;-D
[00:54:47] <tsoome> ?
[00:54:50] <rab> what is libXm.so from? is that motif?
[00:55:12] <_setuid_H> rab: I'm  not sure
[00:55:28] <alanc> yes, libXm.so is Motif
[00:55:43] <rab> ok. I ask because one of Sun's internal business apps uses it
[00:55:49] <alanc> many many apps use it
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[00:55:58] <_setuid_H> seanmcg: you can't use windows without licence for more than "testing" time.
[00:56:01] <rab> <bugster>
[00:56:04] <_setuid_H> rab: aren't you from the testing team?
[00:56:15] <rab> ?
[00:56:23] <rab> which testing team? I work on the xvm hypervisor at the moment
[00:56:24] <alanc> rab: bugster uses Java, not Motif - the Motif bug tool was killed years ago
[00:56:32] <rab> alanc: bt-cli still needs it
[00:56:33] <alanc> works fine on opensolaris
[00:56:34] <seanmcg> _setuid_H, ?
[00:56:57] <alanc> oh, haven't tried bt-cli - if it needs it, that's stupid, since it's a CLI and libXm is a GUI library
[00:56:58] <seanmcg> the cli needs libXm ?
[00:57:01] <_setuid_H> rab: I'm not the sun employee. But my friend told me that they are using a lot of motif apps in his testing team. I don't know which exactly
[00:57:39] <alanc> you can install libXm from Nevada packages until we get the legal situation fixed or the encumbered repository going
[00:57:40] <_setuid_H> seanmcg: Maybe the linked app with some non necessary libraries :-)
[00:57:45] <rab> yes
[00:58:17] <_setuid_H> Time to sleep. Bye
[00:58:31] <seanmcg> _setuid_H, how did windows come into this ?-)
[00:58:55] <rab> bt-cli is a command-line tool, but it still uses X for some things.
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[01:20:05] <Fullmoon> Is pkg image-update && beadm a supplement or replacement for live upgrade?
[01:20:42] <e^ipi> replacement
[01:21:03] <Fullmoon> And when would I choose live upgrade?
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[01:21:58] <alanc> Fullmoon: you would choose live upgrade when using SXCE, beadm/pkg image-update when using 2008.05
[01:22:03] <e^ipi> Fullmoon: because you're using UFS or SXCE
[01:22:04] <coffman> Fullmoon: there is no live upgrade on opensolaris 2008.05
[01:22:29] <coffman> lu also works on zfs now...
[01:22:35] <alanc> you can't use Live Upgrade with IPS packages or 2008.xx installs
[01:22:58] <coffman> afaik live upgrade is not opensource
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[01:23:13] <Fullmoon> I see. Live upgrade will not be open sourced, but boot environments and pkg are developed to replace it
[01:24:37] <e^ipi> alanc: shouldn't that be 20xx.xx ?
[01:24:44] <e^ipi> unless sun intends to kill it next year
[01:25:19] <alanc> e^ipi: probably - really do need a better way to describe it
[01:25:30] <Fullmoon> This zfs stuff is crazy cool
[01:25:33] <coffman> e^ipi: dont get peoples hope started :P
[01:25:51] <e^ipi> heh
[01:27:12] <coffman> i heard ips is coming to sxce in the first quarter of the next year
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[01:28:34] <alanc> coffman: IPS "coming to SXCE" basically happens when the SXCE biweekly builds switch to distributing Indiana LiveCD's of each build
[01:28:54] <alanc> which should be sometime next year
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[01:37:21] <coffman> alanc: uhm
[01:37:56] <coffman> they gone killing of sxce?
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[01:48:52] <TomJ> I wish zones could be installed concurrently
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[02:18:43] <hollenjf> whats everyone's thoughts on nexenta
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[02:32:03] <e^ipi> hollenjf: i'm not a fan, too GNU-y
[02:32:06] <e^ipi> but good for them
[02:33:08] <jbk> with a nougat center?
[02:33:12] <infinity_> hollenjf: looks like the best NAS conversion software
[02:33:31] <infinity_> hollenjf: i don't know of anything else like it
[02:34:38] <ehtom> its a shame the licencing makes zfs on linux a total pain
[02:35:30] <ehtom> something like nexenta may eventually offer a solution to that kind of problem
[02:35:52] <ehtom> but by that time, its likely that a better filesystem than zfs will be available on linux...
[02:36:01] <jbk> dunno
[02:36:15] <nachox> ehtom, most of what can be done with linux can be done in solaris, if you like zfs just use solaris
[02:36:26] <jbk> more people have been working on systemtap for longer than it took dtrace to make it into solaris
[02:36:43] <jbk> and it still hasn't matched the features when dtrace was first released
[02:37:03] <ehtom> nachox: does solaris have a device mapper?
[02:37:05] <jbk> so i don't think that makes such predictions so certain
[02:37:54] <infinity_> ehtom: totally agree about the linux license
[02:37:54] <ehtom> nachox: is it possible to use linux packages and virtualization (read: windows) on solaris?
[02:38:07] <nachox> ehtom, that is not a problem really, a device mapper is designed to solve a given problem, what is the problem you're facing that requires a device mapper?
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[02:39:13] <ehtom> device mapper is an architecture which allows lots of things to be done, if you want to (for example, someone will probably write a compression dm target at some point)
[02:39:25] <ehtom> the linux kernel architecture is quite clean like that nowadays
[02:39:33] <ehtom> what does solaris have?
[02:39:43] <nachox> ehtom, yes, you can use either xen or virtualbox to virtualize windows, and what linux package do you need?
[02:40:09] <ehtom> xchat,samba,vim,lisp,python,etc...
[02:40:14] <ehtom> firefox...
[02:40:15] <infinity_> nachox: i don't then xen or vbox is a good windows virtualization
[02:40:15] <ehtom> gnome
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[02:40:38] <nachox> ehtom, zfs can be configured to compress data in the filesystem using gzip
[02:40:43] <ehtom> virtualbox isn't very good imho
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[02:41:12] <infinity_> ehtom: i don't like xen either for windows. too sloooow
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[02:41:33] <ehtom> nachox: I know, zfs is wonderful... but what else does solaris have over linux?
[02:41:48] <infinity_> ehtom: umm ..zfs?
[02:41:49] <infinity_> heh
[02:41:52] <ehtom> haha
[02:42:07] <infinity_> zfs is a pretty good reason to use solaris
[02:42:12] <ehtom> why is xen slow for windows virtualization... it shouldn't be
[02:42:18] <jbk> dtrace
[02:42:19] <jbk> smf
[02:42:20] <jbk> fma
[02:42:27] <ehtom> I don't know what those are
[02:42:28] <nachox> ehtom, there is python, gnome is the default desktop, there is vi, samba is there also but you can also use solaris' own smb replacement, some third party compiled and packaged xchat for solaris but you can use pidgin for irc which comes by default
[02:42:32] <infinity_> we have 25 linux servers, and ONE solaris server because of ZFS
[02:42:39] <jbk> mature storage stack
[02:42:44] <infinity_> ehtom: xen is only fast for windows if you get a commercial version
[02:42:54] <ehtom> infinity_: why would that be?
[02:43:05] <infinity_> ehtom: the drivers
[02:43:09] <ehtom> infinity_: the xen hypervisor is exactly the same in both versions
[02:43:18] <ehtom> oh you mean paravirtualizing windows?
[02:43:40] <ehtom> well... give that one time
[02:43:51] <glance> things i miss in solaris is generly drivers,
[02:43:53] <infinity_> which is why i use vmware
[02:44:04] <ehtom> the next gen of windows (windows 7) will support virtualization natively
[02:44:07] <glance> mostly for sata-cards...
[02:44:10] <infinity_> i'd use vbox, but managing a bunch of vboxes is a nightmare.
[02:44:13] <ehtom> so xen will be able to accelerate it no problem
[02:44:29] <ehtom> infinity_: xen is much faster than vmware... :S (unless you have vmware ESX or something)
[02:45:05] <infinity_> ehtom: you need the drivers though. else its not faster. and the drivers only come in the commercial versions
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[02:45:16] <ehtom> infinity_: you don't need drivers
[02:45:19] <infinity_> and vmware is free
[02:45:30] <ehtom> infinity_: not for hypervisor based virtualisation (kvm,xen)
[02:45:35] <infinity_> i ran windows in xen, and it sucked
[02:45:49] <ehtom> wierd
[02:46:01] <infinity_> i don't remember. that project was like 6 months ago.
[02:46:19] <infinity_> basically the conclusion was that it was either commercial xen, vbox, or vmware
[02:46:25] <infinity_> vmware won
[02:46:46] <ehtom> hmm... commercial xen has no advantages whatsoever over normal xen as far as speed goes
[02:47:00] <infinity_> i don't speak virtualization daily, so i'm rusty :)
[02:47:04] <ehtom> unless you're talking about windows server 2003 x64
[02:47:17] <infinity_> 2003 32bit
[02:47:21] <ehtom> hmm
[02:47:34] <ehtom> microsoft made some drivers for using that OS with xen
[02:47:43] <ehtom> (so that it runs paravirtualized)
[02:47:50] <ehtom> (i.e. rly fast)
[02:48:11] <ehtom> maybe the commercial version installed those automatically
[02:48:37] <ehtom> but still... its very strange that xen hvm was slower than vmware + guest
[02:48:45] <ehtom> *guest tools
[02:49:17] <TomJ> In Containers, can I delete pool_default and pset_default?   I want to break my 16 cpu system into two 8 cpu containers, but I am not sure how to move the global zone out of pool_default into one of my new containers, and it wont let me assign 2 x 8 cpu containers because pool_default has those CPUs too
[02:50:03] <TomJ> oh I can just rename pool_default, so I could give that 8 CPUs and rename it to the name I wanted, then add one more
[02:50:04] <TomJ> that works
[02:51:04] <infinity_> ehtom: can't find the notes
[02:51:27] <infinity_> TomJ: 16 CPUs ? who makes it?
[02:52:18] <TomJ> 16 cores I should have said.  4 x 4 core intel xeon
[02:52:56] <ehtom> infinity_: sorry... its been a while since i've done any benchmarking on xen/whatever with windows
[02:53:47] <infinity_> i think it came down to that opensource Xen ide/rtl8139 emulation sucks, and the opensource pv drivers weren't mature yet
[02:54:06] <infinity_> i dunno what the status is now
[02:54:13] <ehtom> "pretty good"
[02:54:25] <ehtom> people are gonna even be able to virtualize games on xen soon
[02:54:37] <ehtom> (needs special hardware)
[02:55:07] <infinity_> ehtom: the gui in vmware is pretty nice as well :)
[02:55:17] <ehtom> yeah it is
[02:55:26] <ehtom> vmware server is old tech though
[02:55:31] <ehtom> hence why its free
[02:55:55] <infinity_> a cheap server with 6 GB of ram and only 2 drives mirrored can run a good amount of guests
[02:56:06] <infinity_> as long as its not heavy IO :)
[02:57:06] <infinity_> though i think it would be good to just have a cheap server and run the guests on a SAN
[02:57:48] <ehtom> what kind of "cheap"? ~$5k
[02:58:00] <infinity_> then you get good IO. I haven't actually tried this much yet. i just run all my guests on my windows XP box using iscsi. haven't done this for servers
[02:58:03] <infinity_> 1-2 k
[02:59:12] <infinity_> 1 is prolly a little too low :)
[02:59:21] <infinity_> maybe 1.5k - 2.5k
[02:59:37] <ehtom> thats pretty good for the price
[02:59:56] <ehtom> although all the windows licences for the guests must nuke your wallet
[03:00:04] <infinity_> i think our server with 6 gb of ram and 250 gb raid1 was < 2k
[03:00:46] <infinity_> its IO bound now. no more guests can run on it. i think there are 5 guests on it
[03:01:17] <ehtom> to fix IO, you need scsi, and many many disks :P
[03:01:38] <infinity_> yep. Fc, iscsi, aoe, something.
[03:01:57] <ehtom> well, or you could try some clever thin client thingie
[03:02:07] <ehtom> but I don't know anything about windows thin clients
[03:02:41] <ehtom> with 16GB you could cache aggressively
[03:02:45] <infinity_> the most drives we have in one server is 8, but we don't use it for virtualization :(
[03:03:12] <infinity_> it does have iscsi. but not for production and its slow as hell when running multiple IO tasks for some reason
[03:03:18] <infinity_> no one has attempted to fix it
[03:04:20] <infinity_> i'm suppose to be working
[03:04:21] <infinity_> lol
[03:05:03] <ehtom> heh, ok
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[03:06:22] <infinity_> but i'm still here! aah
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[03:16:16] <lkthomas> hey guys
[03:16:35] <lkthomas> do you use apache or sun java web server on solaris ?
[03:17:45] <lkthomas> sun claim that sun java web server is a lot faster than apache, haha
[03:18:18] <LeftWing> It's pretty good.
[03:18:38] <lkthomas> one thing which makes me headache
[03:18:47] <lkthomas> I don't know if the problem is comes from java programmer or what
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[03:18:53] <lkthomas> my experience on tomcat is pretty bad
[03:19:17] <lkthomas> starting time is long, research usage is huge
[03:19:25] <nachox> use glassfish...
[03:19:35] <lkthomas> hmm
[03:19:37] <LeftWing> lkthomas: tomcat and sun webserver are entirely separate.
[03:19:45] <lkthomas> right
[03:19:52] <lkthomas> tomcat really upset me
[03:20:00] <LeftWing> Yes, well, it is pretty upsetting.
[03:20:18] <lkthomas> maybe I should give a try on glassfish and sun java web server
[03:20:24] <nachox> or just pay oracle for weblogic :)
[03:20:35] <lkthomas> weblogic ?
[03:20:50] <jbk> nachox: don't forget to grab your ankles first if you do that
[03:21:31] <lkthomas> hmm
[03:21:33] <nachox> lkthomas, BEA's j2ee server which Oracle bought along with... the rest of BEA earlier thie year
[03:21:59] <lkthomas> hmm
[03:22:21] <jbk> and subsequentially jacked up the license cost
[03:22:28] <victori_> nachox: glassfish is heavier than tomcat
[03:22:30] <lkthomas> heh
[03:22:38] <lkthomas> victori_, is it ?
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[03:22:48] <nachox> victori_, agreed
[03:22:49] <lkthomas> on which part ?
[03:22:51] <victori_> your comparing a full J2EE container vs a servlet container..
[03:22:52] <lkthomas> CPU or RAM ?
[03:22:56] <LeftWing> The base configuration requires more RAM, but I don't think it's slower.
[03:23:07] <lkthomas> I see
[03:23:07] <victori_> if you want something fast and agile you go with jetty
[03:23:13] <LeftWing> heh
[03:23:14] <lkthomas> doesn't matter, RAM is cheap
[03:23:32] <victori_> we run our production site on multiple jetty + memcached backed session store.
[03:23:44] <lkthomas> hmm
[03:23:58] <victori_> memcached > any j2ee distributed session store.
[03:24:11] <LeftWing> heh
[03:24:24] * nachox hates java
[03:24:34] <LeftWing> Java is great!
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[03:25:05] <lkthomas> does sun java web server only runs on solaris ? no ?
[03:25:10] <victori_> java is great, j2ee sucks balls
[03:25:24] <LeftWing> lkthomas: Linux, various Unix OSes, Windows (I think)
[03:25:26] <jbk> lkthomas: no, linux, hp-ux, aix, windows as well
[03:25:31] <LeftWing> mmm
[03:25:32] <victori_> j2ee was designed by engineers who live in fantasy land
[03:25:34] <lkthomas> I see, hmm
[03:26:10] <nachox> victori_, want a bean? :)
[03:27:03] <LeftWing> I suspect that fantasy land for you might be a business need for other people.
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[03:27:41] <victori_> LeftWing: oh we do have a need for session failover,and it works great at half the cost of j2ee clustering
[03:27:56] <nachox> LeftWing, no, really, it is a fantasy land, the problem is that it is the only fantasy land :)
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[03:28:11] <LeftWing> victori_: Yes, but session failover isn't the only thing that "J2EE" does.
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[03:28:27] <LeftWing> nachox: heh.
[03:28:29] <victori_> LeftWing: Just one example.
[03:29:24] <LeftWing> victori_: I guess my point is a lot of the design probably came from people looking to augment or replace legacy systems like banking software that were built in particular ways.
[03:29:26] <victori_> EJB3 is a huge step in the right direction, however, it is missing some simple features such as cascading deletes.
[03:30:52] <nachox> cascading deletes? in the ORM?
[03:31:01] <victori_> ejb3 correct
[03:32:15] <lkthomas> guys, how come almost all netscape product are bought by Sun ?
[03:32:31] <LeftWing> lkthomas: Presumably because they worked together under the iPlanet Alliance.
[03:32:44] <ehtom> java itself was made by engineers living in fantasy land
[03:32:50] <lkthomas> hmm
[03:33:07] <LeftWing> ehtom: It's certainly a popular and functional fantasy land.
[03:33:07] <lkthomas> which company is within iplanet ?
[03:33:46] <nachox> netscape and sun worked together to market and develope some products back in the day, a while later that agreement was ended and sun kept developing those products, netscape kept the code which it later sold to redhat
[03:33:56] <nachox> LeftWing, indeed
[03:34:11] <lkthomas> sold to red hat ?!
[03:34:12] <lkthomas> hmm
[03:34:21] <LeftWing> (eg Red Hat Directory Server)
[03:34:29] <lkthomas> LOL
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[03:34:41] <LeftWing> (it's like Sun Directory Server but without some of the newer neat stuff)
[03:34:42] * lkthomas is testing redhat directory server
[03:34:54] <ehtom> well, java certainly has an advantage for webapps, but no more than python, for example
[03:35:09] <jbk> it seems like sun's invested more in their fork of the code than redhat
[03:35:22] <lkthomas> redhat just marketing
[03:35:35] <nachox> jbk, nod, and then they created opends :)
[03:35:49] <LeftWing> ehtom: The are, of course, arguments for both sides but staticly compiled code is often a win for both performance and for compile-time mistake-catching.
[03:36:06] <ehtom> java isn't compiled
[03:36:10] <LeftWing> Yes, it is.
[03:36:13] <ehtom> its byte compiled
[03:36:24] <LeftWing> (Which is a subset of "compiled")
[03:36:29] <victori_> Our current site is written in spring/hibernate/wicket. Static typing is a sanity saver for long term projects.
[03:36:30] <nachox> it is compiled to bytecode, but it is still compiled
[03:36:55] <ehtom> ok, its half-compiled
[03:36:59] <LeftWing> Also, the Hotspot JVM does real-time optimisation/translation of bytecode into native code for the target CPU
[03:37:04] <lkthomas> would it be wasted if I use sun java web server and run with php ?
[03:37:11] <ehtom> LeftWing: its still horribly slow
[03:37:15] <LeftWing> So bytecode can, particularly in the Server class VM, become native code if the JVM thinks it will speed up the process.
[03:37:20] <victori_> lkthomas: yes wasting your time
[03:37:22] <LeftWing> ehtom: No, it isn't.  Go and look at some benchmarks.
[03:37:27] <lkthomas> victori_, why ? :)
[03:37:33] <lkthomas> victori_, my company use JSP and php
[03:37:33] <jbk> bad code is slow in any language
[03:37:39] <nachox> lkthomas, it's free and damn cool, use it already
[03:37:56] <victori_> lkthomas: php native with opcode caching is as fast as the jvm implementation with a much lower memory cost
[03:37:56] <lkthomas> nachox, REALLY ? hmmm, is it works well ?
[03:38:17] <chrome> jbk++
[03:38:22] <nachox> sun's web site says it does
[03:38:24] <lkthomas> hmm
[03:38:26] <victori_> anyway why make things more complex than they have to be?
[03:38:31] <LeftWing> jbk: Hear, hear.
[03:38:45] <ehtom> LeftWing: do any very large internet applications (e.g. ebay) use java?
[03:39:05] <lkthomas> no
[03:39:07] <victori_> also the fact php-fcgi runs in processes, you can kill off rogue processes that are leaking memory without disrupting your service.
[03:39:09] <lkthomas> they use ASP :P
[03:39:16] <victori_> you also lose out on rolling updates with jvm php
[03:39:52] <lkthomas> I personally don't like apache much
[03:40:06] <victori_> We run 2 jetty instances per server for our site to support rolling updates.  One goes down while users migrate to other node for a rolling upgrade.
[03:40:07] <lkthomas> boated code, slow as hell
[03:40:11] <ehtom> lkthomas: not for something like ebay... ebay's engine is coded in C iirc
[03:40:29] <lkthomas> aren't they use Zeus ?
[03:40:45] <victori_> zeus is mediocre compared to nginx ;-)
[03:40:59] <LeftWing> ehtom: As far as I know they're using Java. </hearsay>
[03:41:13] <victori_> litespeed if you got the cash, else nginx.
[03:41:15] <lkthomas> I use lighttpd for heavy loading site
[03:41:15] <LeftWing> (Citation needed for both of our opinions)
[03:41:32] <victori_> lighttpd leaks memory with it's half baked proxy implementation.
[03:41:46] <lkthomas> I don't use it as proxy
[03:41:51] <lkthomas> OH
[03:41:55] <lkthomas> another thing I want to know
[03:42:03] <lkthomas> Sun seems got cluster solution, am I correct ?
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[03:42:33] <LeftWing> Yes, there is Solaris Cluster.
[03:42:46] <lkthomas> is that just for web ?
[03:42:51] <lkthomas> I mean, web cluster ?
[03:42:55] <victori_> lkthomas: fyi nginx supports event ports, no 1(n) file descriptor look up penalty.
[03:43:02] <LeftWing> No it's for HA/Scalable apps of whatever type.
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[03:43:27] <victori_> but anyway it does not matter if you get <500,000 views a day.
[03:43:34] <lkthomas> victori_, heh
[03:44:19] <lkthomas> I assume almost all Sun software got GUI console ? :)
[03:44:28] <victori_> not dtrace
[03:44:30] <LeftWing> Of varying qualities.
[03:44:35] <lkthomas> LOL, dtrace
[03:44:43] <lkthomas> I don't need GUI for dtrace :P
[03:44:44] <victori_> dtrace++
[03:45:00] <victori_> helped me solve a ton of issues in production.
[03:45:14] <lkthomas> I think I should start to learn how to use dtrace
[03:45:20] <lkthomas> it is also going to implement on freebsd
[03:45:21] <lkthomas> hmm
[03:45:41] <ehtom> LeftWing: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/07/13/ebay_sun_ibm/ <-- that may explain why we both think different things...
[03:45:42] <victori_> sadly it probes are limited in freebsd, not as useful.
[03:46:09] <lkthomas> I think they will improve it later on
[03:46:34] <victori_> I am sure they would
[03:46:44] <nachox> victori_, dlight is a dtrace gui, and i'm sure there is another one
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[03:47:11] <_anthonyc> is it possible to install JDS on 2008.05 ?
[03:47:23] <LeftWing> ehtom: So, in 2005, it was Java?
[03:47:34] <alanc> _anthonyc: it's not possible to install 2008.05 without JDS
[03:47:38] <_anthonyc> I have 3 other operating systems that use gnome, and I miss solaris 10's JDS
[03:47:42] <_anthonyc> ?
[03:47:47] <ehtom> LeftWing: umm... that page says that ebay lie
[03:47:58] <LeftWing> heh
[03:48:03] <ehtom> and that the powered by thinger is auctioned off
[03:48:05] <_anthonyc> so the JDS in 2008.05 just LOOKS like regular gnome, then?
[03:48:24] <LeftWing> IBM do Java as well.  It's possible that they've bought servers (physical and logical) from both vendors.
[03:48:37] <alanc> it looks a lot more like regular gnome - still a custom theme, and it's GNOME 2.20 or so instead of S10's GNOME 2.6
[03:48:46] <_anthonyc> how can I mod it to at least look like the solaris 10 default, then?
[03:49:02] <_anthonyc> with the orange Java menu and all
[03:49:12] <lkthomas> LOL
[03:49:18] <lkthomas> mm
[03:49:24] <lkthomas> nevermind :P
[03:50:01] <_anthonyc> b/c right now when I'm showing off distros on my computer, its like "this is ubuntu...this is fedora...and this is opensolaris" and the response is "they look the same, applications places and system"
[03:50:45] <_anthonyc> I at least want it to look like the solaris 10 JDS, to look different :p although I'd just as happily use a terminal.
[03:50:53] <_anthonyc> any suggestions?
[03:51:14] <lkthomas> "looks" ?
[03:51:19] <lkthomas> they all use gnome
[03:51:24] <alanc> I thought someone had made a theme, but I don't know - maybe search the desktop-discuss archives on opensolaris.org or ask there
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[03:51:53] <_anthonyc> hmm, getting conflicting answers - is it behind-the-scenes gnome or JDS?
[03:52:05] <nachox> jds was gnome
[03:52:08] * lkthomas going to use Moon Microsystem Java Web Server soon
[03:52:19] <_anthonyc> ok...
[03:52:45] <_anthonyc> another question: is it possible to install CDE along side JDS/gnome and switch between them easily?
[03:53:32] <_anthonyc> or run each on a different x display? (JDS/gnome on :0, and CDE on :1)
[03:54:21] <nachox> cde is dead
[03:54:37] <ehtom> ebay uses ibm websphere j2ee apparently
[03:54:51] <lkthomas> ebay should use php :P
[03:54:56] <_anthonyc> I still like it for speed and a thinner graphical layer over a terminal
[03:55:04] <_anthonyc> no suggestions?
[03:55:25] <_anthonyc> eh, guess there's only one way to find out. :p
[03:55:46] <ehtom> i wonder why ebay use j2ee
[03:55:59] <alanc> JDS is GNOME with a custom theme & layout, plus other apps like Firefox
[03:56:27] <_anthonyc> alanc: but what about the default solaris 10 theme? is it still around?
[03:56:35] <alanc> I don't know
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[04:01:38] <nachox> you need to use Nimbus plus moving some panels around really
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[04:08:28] <lkthomas> LOL!
[04:08:35] <lkthomas> Sun java web server just works on centos
[04:08:42] <lkthomas> I am impressed
[04:08:54] <lkthomas> very impressed in fact
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[04:17:56] <ehtom> is there 3d acceleration in opensolaris?
[04:18:44] <bradd_> ehtom , it provides opengl if thats what you mean
[04:18:53] <ehtom> no
[04:19:04] <ehtom> I mean accelerated via hardware opengl
[04:19:58] <alanc> ehtom: yes, for nvidia, intel, and some ati chipsets
[04:20:21] <ehtom> nvidia released drivers?!?
[04:20:45] <alanc> ehtom: yes, nvidia has provided a Solaris port of their drivers for several years
[04:21:32] <ehtom> what about wine on opensolaris?
[04:22:04] <alanc> (since around the time Sun started bundling nvidia cards in the AMD & Intel workstations, and thus gave nvidia a financial incentive for driver porting)
[04:22:27] <alanc> never used wine myself, but know others do
[04:23:13] <alanc> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/desktop/communities/wine/
[04:25:10] <zenbalrog> ok i have opensolaris installed can someone tell a quick way to install gcc
[04:32:28] <lkthomas> I think you need to install sun studio ?
[04:36:43] <bradd_> sun studio provides suns c / c++ compiler
[04:37:00] <jbk> pkg install gcc doesn't work?
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[04:38:01] <lkthomas> LOL
[04:38:01] <lkthomas> http://www.moonmicrosystem.com/
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[04:38:26] <lkthomas> http://www.offshorexperts.com/index.cfm/fa/buyer.profile/p/189931
[04:38:31] <lkthomas> Moon Microsystem
[04:38:31] <lkthomas> Indian Bulls of Web Designing
[04:40:56] <YC> Is it possible to download a package from pkg.opensolaris.org manually, without using pkg?
[04:41:14] <alanc> no
[04:41:49] <YC> Damn.
[04:42:04] <YC> I have build 93, and ipkg seems totally screwed.
[04:44:54] <lkthomas> I don't really understand why sun server application usually use so much CPU power even it is on idle mode
[04:45:21] <lkthomas> apache use 1% CPU resource when no one visit the site
[04:45:27] <lkthomas> sun web server use around 50%
[04:47:34] <ehtom> because its soooooo cool
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[04:54:09] <freetown> hi...is there any aspi support in opensolaris?
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[05:03:16] <lkthomas> what are you asking ?
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[06:08:23] <goinup> hello.. so i just thought of something that i think i may have screwed up. as root i did zfs create mypool/pool
[06:08:37] <goinup> then i chown username:usergroup mypool/pool
[06:08:42] <goinup> will this stick after reboot?
[06:08:53] <goinup> i assume not.. so the question is what will happen to the data
[06:10:04] <TomJ> that will work fine
[06:10:16] <goinup> oh.. ok
[06:10:22] <goinup> *phew*
[06:10:26] <TomJ> presuming you were in / when you typed chown .. mypool/pool
[06:10:34] <TomJ> the full path is /mypool/pool so that relative path only works if you're in /
[06:10:47] <goinup> yea i put hte proper path in
[06:10:50] <TomJ> ok
[06:10:52] <TomJ> np then
[06:10:57] <goinup> else i wouldn't be able to write to the device as username
[06:11:22] <goinup> ok thanks.. i was worried for a minute :)
[06:14:17] <goinup> alright then.. back to work
[06:14:20] <goinup> thanks
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[06:18:30] <freetown> lkthomas: sorry, had a meeting. where can i find information on cdrom related interfaces should be my question
[06:22:18] <McBofh> freetown: you mean the old ISA craptastic  SCSI implementation?
[06:23:28] <jbk> hey McBofh
[06:23:34] <McBofh> hiya
[06:24:22] <McBofh> freetown: the ISA is bad and should be killed off immediately if it hasn't already
[06:24:28] <McBofh> freetown: now... what do you really want to know?
[06:25:03] <jbk> the meaning of life?
[06:26:09] <McBofh> jbk: http://www.hasthelhcdestroyedtheearth.com/
[06:28:55] <jbk> :)
[06:29:01] <freetown> McBofh:  if there is any stuff similar to linux/cdrom.h
[06:29:26] <freetown> if i wanted to port the app...where do I look for cdrom related calls.
[06:29:29] <McBofh> oh
[06:30:05] <McBofh> your best bet is to get familiar with SCSI, since Solaris doesn't do anything interesting except make cd/dvd devices show up as scsi
[06:30:11] <McBofh> even IDE/ATAPI ones
[06:31:03] <McBofh> not knowing what linux/cdrom.h provides in terms of functions or #defines, I can't really help more than that, sorry
[06:31:17] <McBofh> though you could have a look through usr/include/sys/scsi
[06:32:00] <jbk> what are you trying to port?
[06:36:12] <freetown> jbk: don't laugh. gens
[06:36:19] <jbk> gens?
[06:36:38] <freetown> sf.net/projects/gens
[06:38:55] <freetown> McBofh: so...is it libscg or something else i have to pick up?
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[07:13:23] <McBofh> freetown: I don't know for sure; libscg is certainly available for OpenSolaris
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[07:26:01] <freetown> McBofh: thnx.
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[07:29:03] <d3cline> hey peeps how can i resume a failed pkg install
[07:29:14] <d3cline> i am on  awireless network and it often fails for a few seconds
[07:29:25] <d3cline> but than is ok
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[07:35:59] <d3cline> I was installing the java-dev package and I had 678 out of 778 downloaded and now I am starting from the beginning unless I can just resume the download.
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[07:36:10] <d3cline> Anybody? Please?
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[07:42:39] <Gnu_Raiz> use wget with the c option.
[07:43:15] <Gnu_Raiz> I also believe that sun download manager allows for intrupts and has the ability to resume.
[07:44:09] <d3cline> but no way with pkg?
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[07:44:39] <lkthomas> guys
[07:44:55] <lkthomas> can I config opensolaris don't run GUI mode when it starts up ?
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[07:47:58] <bradd_> lkthomas, something like dtaccess -d may do it
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[07:48:29] <lkthomas> sorry, one more question, how could I start GUI when I need it ?
[07:48:43] <McBofh> svcadm disable cde-login gdm2
[07:49:25] <lkthomas> and if I want to start gui ?
[07:49:56] <buddy001> hi
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[07:50:10] <buddy001> i need help !
[07:50:41] <lkthomas> haha
[07:50:52] <lkthomas> I try to disable GUI as possible, it seems wasting resource
[07:51:13] <McBofh> lkthomas:    svcadm enabl '
[07:51:16] <McBofh> lkthomas:    svcadm enable
[07:51:23] <lkthomas> I see
[07:51:24] <McBofh> see svcadm(1m)
[07:51:31] <lkthomas> nono, I know how to use svcadm
[07:51:45] <lkthomas> but, on redhat, even you enable it, you will have to startx too
[07:51:48] <lkthomas> or run gdm2
[07:52:09] <McBofh> welcome to a different os :)
[07:52:21] <lkthomas> LOL, right :)
[07:52:28] <buddy001> i had vista as my o/s now i installed open solaris n except c all my HD drives r missing pls hepl me i need to know how to uninstall this solaris
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[07:52:41] * purserj mutters about removing X and then stops taunting happy fun ball
[07:53:30] <buddy001> hey guyz pls help
[07:53:33] <lkthomas> ok, I am running sun java web server now
[07:53:34] <buddy001> !!
[07:53:39] <lkthomas> but how could I install glassfish with it ?
[07:53:43] <lkthomas> any guide for me ?
[07:54:23] <lkthomas> buddy001, I don't think opensolaris is for newbies on *nix ?
[07:54:37] <lkthomas> you have to use grub to boot up vista I think
[07:54:49] <buddy001> ok fine
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[07:55:38] <buddy001> yeah m new to this pls i need ur help i'hav lost my drives
[07:55:47] <lkthomas> ok, what is Sun Application server VS Sun Java web server ?
[07:56:07] <lkthomas> buddy001, we can't help you if you don't know the basic thing
[07:56:09] <e^ipi> lkthomas: ws7 != glassfish
[07:56:24] <e^ipi> ws7 is a web server, glassfish is an application server
[07:56:33] <e^ipi> they are almost entirely unrelated
[07:56:34] <lkthomas> nono, the first question is that how could I integrate glassfish into ws7 ?
[07:56:41] <e^ipi> ws7 is a web server, glassfish is an application server
[07:56:42] <e^ipi> they are almost entirely unrelated
[07:56:44] <buddy001> at least guide me what should i do plzzz
[07:57:15] <lkthomas> I see
[07:57:29] <lkthomas> can I define glassfish is a "container" ?
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[07:58:16] <e^ipi> container is a zone.
[07:58:29] <e^ipi> ws7 is a web server, glassfish is an application server
[07:58:37] <lkthomas> nono, I mean servlet container
[07:58:52] <e^ipi> it's an appllication server.
[07:58:56] <lkthomas> okok
[07:59:00] * lkthomas messed up
[07:59:02] <e^ipi> if you don't know what that is, you don't need it
[07:59:05] <lkthomas> sorry man, just confused
[08:00:04] <lkthomas> e^ipi, ws7 is impressive
[08:00:09] <Gnu_Raiz> I am trying to get oss audio installed, but pkgadd -d is giving me errors, such as can't find default admin file.
[08:00:12] <lkthomas> damn easy
[08:00:17] <lkthomas> to install and config
[08:00:27] <_mary_kate_> lkthomas: sjsws has a servlet container
[08:00:35] <_mary_kate_> lkthomas: but it's not a full J2EE application server; glassfish is
[08:00:37] <Gnu_Raiz> this was a clone of an upgrade to snv 97 done today.
[08:00:41] <lkthomas> _mary_kate_, hmm, I see
[08:01:03] <_mary_kate_> if you can deploy an app on tomcat, it'll probably work on sjsws too
[08:01:11] <_mary_kate_> although i dislike putting servlets in the web server myself
[08:01:20] <lkthomas> _mary_kate_, good answer, that's what I am trying  to do
[08:01:47] <Gnu_Raiz> google is not giving me any loving.
[08:02:58] <e^ipi> glassfish is probably faster than ws7 or tomcat though
[08:05:52] <lkthomas> in terms of JSP or php ?
[08:06:20] <lkthomas> as I mentioned before, I need both running on same server
[08:06:58] <buddy001> '1kthomas ' can u tell me that is it possible 2 get the drives back
[08:07:14] <buddy001> the missing ones
[08:07:23] <lkthomas> I don't know what have you done with your HDD
[08:07:29] <_mary_kate_> lkthomas: use fastcgi to run php, there's an example on sun.com somewhere
[08:07:43] <lkthomas> _mary_kate_, I did it on ws7, but not sure about glassfish
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[08:08:06] <_mary_kate_> why would you run php on glassfish?
[08:08:15] <_mary_kate_> use glassfish for java and sjsws for php
[08:08:26] <lkthomas> my intention is to run php on ws7, jsp on glassfish
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[08:08:46] <lkthomas> so yeah, I am on correct way then
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[08:32:27] <trochej> Coffee
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[08:42:10] <YourPatent> Hey - congrats guys - I'm listening to XM Radio in VirtualBox
[08:42:47] <YourPatent> Wish I could send you a snapshot
[08:43:26] <YourPatent> Deb64 VirtualBox WinXP Firefox PulseAudio
[08:43:52] <YourPatent> emachine 768 mb ram
[08:44:42] <e^ipi> uhh, okay
[08:45:07] <lkthomas> I got glassfish running
[08:45:23] <lkthomas> installation does not use GUI, too bad :)
[08:49:05] <benley> why would a j2ee hosting platform need a gui installer?
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[08:50:18] <e^ipi> heh
[08:51:48] *** Tempt sets mode: +o LeftWing
[08:51:50] <e^ipi> i dunno, oracle has a gui for some unknown reason
[09:03:42] <seanmcg> vbox panics wehn I use it :(
[09:04:49] <seanmcg> start two guests and boom.
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[09:06:01] <seanmcg> benley, windows folks like guis..
[09:11:35] <anilg> I see both Makefile.in and Makefile.am in a subdirectory in a package.. which one does the configure script use to generate the Makefile?
[09:13:07] <seanmcg> would grep Makefile configure not tell you ?
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[09:14:11] <div8> depends on your autoconf tools .. afaik .in files are use by newer versions of autoconf tools
[09:15:39] <_mary_kate_> .in is the older version
[09:15:54] <_mary_kate_> well, for configure.in
[09:16:10] <_mary_kate_> newer autoconf prefers configure.ac (but it will accept configure.in)... but output are still Makefile.in, etc
[09:16:27] <_mary_kate_> Makefile.am is for automake, automake processes it to produce a Makefile.in
[09:16:43] <_mary_kate_> usually that Makefile.in is shipped with the software, and configure generates Makefile from it
[09:17:08] <anilg> ok
[09:17:11] <anilg> thanks
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[09:35:25] <lloy0076> Is it just me or have the Sparc desktop machines just vanished from www.sun.com?
[09:35:33] <lloy0076> All I see are the Opteron and Intel Core 2s...
[09:35:56] <benley> I see ads for t5140 and t5240 machines on the front page
[09:35:59] <le^zeek> only you
[09:36:07] <le^zeek> http://www.sun.com/servers/index.jsp?tab=2
[09:36:13] <kgoetz> lloy0076: i was told they stopped shipping last month.
[09:36:18] <le^zeek> press "view by processor"
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[09:36:40] <le^zeek> ups ... my mistake, workstations
[09:36:44] <le^zeek> yeah they gone
[09:36:56] <lloy0076> Yeah, sorry, I meant in workstations.
[09:36:58] <kgoetz> stupid sun
[09:37:31] <benley> oh huh, did they stop making sparc workstations?
[09:37:39] <le^zeek> well .... intel/amd is cheaper
[09:37:42] <benley> that wouldn't really bother me, but it it totally the end of an era
[09:37:42] <le^zeek> and better effect i guess
[09:38:01] <_mary_kate_> lloy0076: Sun announced a while ago they will EOL all sparc workstations
[09:38:15] <kgoetz> _mary_kate_: sigh. i must have missed it - i would have got one
[09:38:15] <_mary_kate_> (and not introduce new ones)
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[09:39:06] <kgoetz> everythings goin to intel :/
[09:39:32] <benley> at least it's not itanium.
[09:39:33] <_mary_kate_> well, now solaris doesn't suck on x86, there's less need... just a few IHVs who don't support x86 yet
[09:39:42] <le^zeek> "Sun replied that they will continue to sell SPARC as long as there are customers buying them and they still have customers buying SPARC today"
[09:39:49] <_mary_kate_> ISV, rather
[09:39:49] <le^zeek> guessing people stopped buying heh
[09:39:50] <kgoetz> benley: small solice.
[09:40:15] <lloy0076> _mary_kate_: It depends on what x86 one has.
[09:40:26] <benley> kgoetz: modern x86 CPUs are pretty great.  It's just the legacy PC crap that we assemble around them that sucks.
[09:40:31] <_mary_kate_> lloy0076: i'm pretty sure Sun x86 workstations work well with solaris
[09:40:32] <lloy0076> _mary_kate_: On my work machine I can't get any of the newer OpenSolaris' to work correctly
[09:40:41] <lloy0076> _mary_kate_: And Solaris 10 (the real Solaris) is stable but iccky.
[09:40:46] <kgoetz> le^zeek: i didnt get one because i was hoping for a coolthreads system - i failed to see the point in buying old tech when they had something so cool
[09:40:49] <lloy0076> Yeah true :)
[09:40:57] <kgoetz> benley: its the legacy crap that causes the problems.
[09:41:14] <benley> kgoetz: right.  I wish the pc bios and all that crap would die in a fire.
[09:41:21] <kgoetz> nod.
[09:41:28] <_mary_kate_> lloy0076: btw, HP don't sell HP-UX (Itanium) workstations anymore either
[09:41:34] <_mary_kate_> lloy0076: i don't think unix workstations are a big market nowadays ;)
[09:41:40] <benley> kgoetz: like for the love of god, let's do away with this 8086-compatible bootup mode
[09:41:48] <le^zeek> kgoetz: coolthreads system would "fail" as a desktop workstation (at least looking at T1)
[09:41:58] * kgoetz suspects workstations in general are a dieing breed.
[09:42:18] <kgoetz> le^zeek: in what way?
[09:42:29] <kgoetz> just the 'no flash' crap, or real problems?
[09:42:43] <_mary_kate_> kgoetz: individual cores are slow
[09:42:47] <le^zeek> kgoetz: its too slow for desktop use
[09:42:47] <benley> kgoetz: each individual processing core isn't that quick
[09:42:53] <_mary_kate_> kgoetz: most workstation workloads are not heavily multithreaded
[09:42:56] <le^zeek> yup
[09:43:12] <le^zeek> T2 is a bit better, but still no cigar compared to a simple intel dual core 3.0
[09:43:12] <_mary_kate_> SPARC64 would make a better workstation, and that seems to be the future of fast-single-core sparc
[09:43:41] <le^zeek> not many people left with huge loads on workstations
[09:43:50] <le^zeek> most of them have computation clusters / render farms / etc
[09:44:03] * benley still compiles shit on his workstation :-P
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[09:44:18] <le^zeek> i still compile stuff on my SS20 with 4 cpu's :P
[09:44:22] <lloy0076> heh
[09:44:33] <lloy0076> I need a Quad Core so Netbeans and Eclipse look like they're doing something.
[09:44:35] * lloy0076 flop
[09:44:45] <_mary_kate_> lloy0076: U24.  cheap, fast, runs solaris
[09:44:54] <le^zeek> lloy0076: get huge ammount of ram :)
[09:45:00] <lloy0076> I have 4GB of RAM.
[09:45:03] <benley> GRATUITOUS AMOUNTS OF RAM
[09:45:03] <lloy0076> Plenty of RAM.
[09:45:19] <kgoetz> ram== good compiles
[09:45:22] <trochej> Coffeeeeeeee
[09:45:22] <benley> I managed to run out of ram on my 8gb desktop machine the other day :-P
[09:45:31] <lloy0076> ep
[09:45:32] <lloy0076> eep
[09:45:45] <kgoetz> ehehehe
[09:45:46] <le^zeek> ram is so cheap
[09:45:48] <benley> not under what I'd call 'normal circumstances' though
[09:45:51] <le^zeek> 8gb sounds decent for a workstation
[09:46:12] <_mary_kate_> mine has 5GB... i'd upgrade, but i'm not even close to using all of that, so it's hardly worth it
[09:46:22] <le^zeek> true, but if you are building new i mean
[09:46:25] <kgoetz> until i get solaris, 2.5gig is enough *g*
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[09:46:54] <_mary_kate_> just don't buy the memory from sun ;)
[09:46:59] <le^zeek> 2 x 2 Gb DDR2 PC2-8500 = 105$
[09:46:59] <benley> Heh.
[09:47:09] <le^zeek> first hit on newegg
[09:47:15] <_mary_kate_> le^zeek: ECC?
[09:47:17] <benley> are these new workstations less picky about what ram they work with than sun's older machines were?
[09:47:28] <le^zeek> yes
[09:47:29] <_mary_kate_> benley: yes, they use standard ECC SDRAM
[09:47:31] <_mary_kate_> (DDR/DDR2)
[09:48:22] <benley> _mary_kate_: yeah, but even then - I remember things being finicky about which modules they liked
[09:48:40] <_mary_kate_> benley: by 'standard' i mean 'any' ;)
[09:48:42] <le^zeek> that was early opteron
[09:48:49] <le^zeek> it was a bit pickish
[09:48:59] <_mary_kate_> benley: i've never heard of a problem putting third-party memory in the modern systems
[09:50:01] <benley> _mary_kate_: good :)
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[09:50:48] <le^zeek> i have the first edition u24 .. threw crucial in it, worked just fine
[09:50:54] <le^zeek> and cheap compared to sun prices
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[10:00:13] <lloy0076> Anyway, I must be off.
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[10:36:43] <likaijun> hi, does  /platform/boot_archive /platform/amd64/boot_archive and runs update or create the two files  when the system launch?
[10:37:08] <likaijun> hi, does /platform/boot_archive and /platform/amd64/boot_archive  runs update or create the two files when the system launch?
[10:38:19] <Stric> no, but at shutdown if it needs to.. (bootadm update.. something..)
[10:38:32] <Stric> (update-archive)
[10:38:39] <asyd> \_o<
[10:38:46] <Stric> quak.
[10:38:46] <trochej> Coffee?
[10:39:28] <trochej> I have a habit of doing bootadm update-archive once in a while.
[10:45:28] <Marco_> hi. is there a driver for the nvidia network adapter?
[10:45:46] <_mary_kate_> if i have a serial device with separate grounds for RX and TX, and i want to connect it to a serial port with only one ground, can i short that ground to both grounds on the other end?
[10:45:50] <_mary_kate_> (... and will it work?)
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[10:52:08] <Stric> _mary_kate_: does that serial device have separate grounds from the start?
[10:52:27] <_mary_kate_> pretend it does :)
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[10:53:44] <Stric> if so, then you might get into trouble if you're trying to ground the wall outlet ground to some other ground and both being stubborn
[10:55:20] <likaijun> stric: but there are two boot_archive in the directory /platform and /platform/amd64 and its size is very large
[10:55:40] <Stric> likaijun: .. yes.
[11:02:11] <Stric> /platform is about 90MB on s10 for me.. 70MB on sxce96
[11:02:50] <likaijun> stric: hello ,I want to make a distribution ,one of my goal is small system,but the directory /platform is about 240M, I want to let the boot_archive smaller   .do you have some suggestion ?
[11:03:32] <Stric> http://pastebin.com/ma5bb5ee
[11:03:38] <Stric> find out why yours is so large
[11:04:53] <_mary_kate_> likaijun: you only *need* one boot archive (either the normal or the amd64 version)
[11:05:05] <_mary_kate_> but if you remove one, you won't be able to boot on that architecture
[11:06:43] <likaijun> I try to compress it to archive.gz in the platform/amd64 and remove another file in the /platform and modify the /boot/grub/menu.lst, then reboot ,system can reboot successfully ,but the system create two other archive in the /platform and /platform/amd64
[11:07:06] <Stric> you can't do that
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[11:08:57] <Stric> send a 'du -k /platform' to http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca
[11:09:37] <Stric> you can remove the boot_archive.gz, it's just wasting space
[11:09:41] <likaijun> _mary_kate_:  wha't mean? *need*  how to set?
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[11:43:05] <likaijun> Stric:   my /platform directory  is very large because of  the boot_archive . can you give  some optimise  suggestion?
[11:44:55] <Stric> yes, do what I asked for
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[11:51:52] <codestr0m> is getting a 10% compression ratio for mp3 on a zfs partition fairly normal.. (yes I assume I'd get a lot better if it was text files) I'm also curious what comparable tool to hdparm there is for testing raw disk throughput..  something a little more friendly than dd.. thanks
[11:52:12] <_mary_kate_> 10% seems high
[11:54:12] <codestr0m> started out on /export/home/foo was 99G there.. moved to my external usb pool with compression on and now only taking up 89G so unless my math is wrong.. I'm happy.. I have *a lot* more I need to move over, but nice first test
[11:54:51] <_mary_kate_> zfs glist -oname,compressratio
[11:54:53] <_mary_kate_> s/glist/list/
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[11:55:17] <codestr0m> bucket                              1.01x
[11:55:40] <Stric> it should be close to 0%
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[11:56:25] <Stric> gzip seems to do about 0.5%, and lzjb isn't as good
[11:56:30] <codestr0m> zfs bucket  set compression=on
[11:56:52] <codestr0m> I'll read the manual
[11:57:00] <Stric> mp3 is already highly compressed
[11:57:11] <codestr0m> yeah I know. that's why I was surprised
[11:57:23] <Stric> I would look for errors instead of being happy ;)
[11:57:56] <codestr0m> well. unless the sun df isn't accurate I'll do more testing
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[11:58:10] <codestr0m> I'll move another 300G-1T of data and see what happens
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[11:58:19] <Stric> see that you have all files etc.. for instance with rsync
[11:58:29] <codestr0m> I don't have md5 sums or anything to test with unfortunately
[11:58:58] <norman> 100G music is like 20k-30k files. maybe it compresses the id3 tags :D
[11:59:21] <Stric> which hopefully isn't 20% of the data
[11:59:22] <codestr0m> norman: they are a bit higher quality. 200G == 30k files
[11:59:40] <codestr0m> rough estimate
[11:59:46] <norman> just joking :)
[11:59:46] <Tempt> Doesn't ZFS compression change some of the file layout stuff?
[11:59:50] <Tempt> Less wasted space?
[11:59:53] <Tempt> That might account for the 10%
[12:00:08] <Tempt> (I'd try for an actual explanation, but I'm too tired)
[12:00:25] <Stric> 10% seems high for "not small files"
[12:00:40] <Tempt> Who knows?
[12:00:41] <codestr0m> someone commented in here yesterday a link to the new intel ssd.. I wonder how well that would play/perform with zfs
[12:00:57] <Stric> codestr0m: they seem to kick ass on read at least..
[12:02:06] <codestr0m> yeah. I'd just be scared to write a driver for the thing though.. I mean 10-100k writes.. one late night coding accident and an unbreaking loop.. could make for a burnt up drive
[12:02:24] <codestr0m> (I'm sure it has a standard interface to prevent against this, but still)
[12:02:25] <Stric> .. write a driver?
[12:02:26] <Stric> for a disk?
[12:02:43] <Stric> it's a plain sata disk
[12:04:07] <codestr0m> aha.. ok. I was thinking maybe there's some off chance you get more features/tuning capability like with scsi
[12:05:17] <Stric> and it's 10-100k writes per "slot".. and it uses wear levelling
[12:05:43] <Stric> so unless you fill it up to 100%, remove one file and then start mass-write/rm, it won't burn out too fast
[12:06:16] <Stric> if it's empty, then you have 100k*(size/512bytes) writes or so
[12:06:45] <codestr0m> under 100G of write per day it'll last more than 5 years
[12:06:56] <codestr0m> that's what they are claiming
[12:07:30] <codestr0m> in the end you aren't going to lose data.. just not be able to write to the disk anymore. that's the saving grace
[12:12:33] <Tempt> well
[12:12:38] <Tempt> failed write operation usually means a bad day
[12:12:46] <Tempt> (panic!)
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[12:14:05] <codestr0m> , but shouldn't the device know the write failed.. and try again on another block.. marking the old one read only?
[12:14:29] <Stric> it probably will.. but what if you run out of other blocks?
[12:14:30] <codestr0m> that would be part of wear leveling?
[12:14:50] <Stric> ie, you fill up all but 1 block and then start writing that one to death
[12:14:50] <codestr0m> yeah. that *if* should then 100% panic
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[12:16:31] <codestr0m> , but like you said. you can only erase in blocks of 512K
[12:16:53] <codestr0m> so it would have to erase that much data first to write it. .and would probably just report a disk full or panic
[12:17:17] <GaduGadu> Hi. Any major glitches on SXCE?
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[12:18:13] <Stric> I said 512 bytes, but that was just a guess at block size.. it's somewhere around that size (or 1k or whatever)
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[13:12:27] <normad> anyone here??
[13:12:33] <normad> need help!!
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[13:15:14] <seanmcg> ask and ye may receive
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[13:33:03] <mikl_> If I wanted to start a new Solaris powered webserver, what would be the best choice? OSOL 0805, SXCE or something completely diffrerent?'
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[13:33:46] <_mary_kate_> mikl_: production?
[13:34:02] <mikl_> _mary_kate_: yeah, in a few weeks or so
[13:34:07] <_mary_kate_> mikl_: solaris 10
[13:34:12] <_mary_kate_> mikl_: with support ($720/year)
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[14:16:16] <TheK_> what is a "solaris powered webserver" ? A sparc? T1000, T2000 ? x86?
[14:20:12] <tsoome> its powered by solaris. solaris is not the hardware:P
[14:21:02] <_mary_kate_> TheK_: a web server that runs solaris?
[14:21:30] <Trede> what mysql admin gui is a good one for solaris ?
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[14:24:37] <TheK_> tsoome, _mary_kate_: I'm asking because the recommend OS might depend on the underlying hardware. What would you prefer that the HW was?
[14:25:00] <_mary_kate_> i don't really understand what you're asking
[14:25:13] <_mary_kate_> if you want hardware to run solaris... anything from Sun is good.  i run it on Dell PE1950 and that works fine too
[14:25:14] <tsoome> that depends on many things, its not a quiestion of personal prefs
[14:25:23] <tsoome> question*
[14:26:04] <asyd> mikl_: niagara processors are very good for webservers indeed, as far as your webserver and especially your application is multithreaded
[14:26:11] <asyd> typically it's very nice for java
[14:27:25] <mikl_> asyd: well, it's not Java, it's PHP and the machine I'm looking at is a Sun Fire X2100, so no Niagara either
[14:27:35] <asyd> ok
[14:27:50] <TheK_> tsoome: Of course it depends on many things, hence I try to understand how you reason. Which HW would you pick if you were to sell "solaris powered webservers" to me?
[14:28:49] <_mary_kate_> what load are you serving?  what type of application?  which web server?
[14:29:00] <tsoome> what i have here already. with single support partner and stuff.
[14:29:02] <TheK_> _mary_kate_: That all HW works equally well is quite unusual, but if we guarantee equal performance for webserver loads I suppose it doesn't matter.
[14:29:25] <tsoome> for scratch new solution - quite probably niagara, but again it depends on web app as well
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[14:29:43] <TheK_> _mary_kate_: So.. what you are asking is really "what do you mean with a Solaris webserver"? ;)
[14:30:38] <glance> hmm.. a frend of mine did his thesis on testing diffrent os/hardware for java-apps, and for those web-services-apps he figured out that you get the same price/preformace with solaris and niagara / linux opteron.
[14:30:38] <TheK_> tsoome: which web apps works best with niagara?
[14:30:54] <tsoome> parallel ones:D
[14:30:59] <TheK_> :)
[14:31:16] <tsoome> if you wanna see if your app will behave nice, ask for try'n'buy
[14:31:18] <TheK_> I once had a parallel.. I think I lost it on the buss.
[14:31:57] <asyd> glance: strange
[14:32:11] <asyd> glance: did he test niagara? or only amd?
[14:32:18] <asyd> if it's only amd I can understand
[14:32:55] <_mary_kate_> glance: why did he test solaris on niagara and linux on opteron?  that doesn't seem like a useful comparison
[14:33:29] <TheK_> _mary_kate_: why?
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[14:33:41] <_mary_kate_> because you're changing two variables
[14:33:45] <TheK_> It seems very useful if he was evaluating business functionallity
[14:33:53] <glance> i think he tested solaris on opteron allso but i dont remember those results.
[14:34:16] <glance> im trying to find his thesis, i have it laying around somewere here...
[14:34:30] <tsoome> well, if you are serious about even considering linux as an option..... :P
[14:34:42] <TheK_> _mary_kate_: you need one and it has to be in USD / delivery
[14:34:46] <glance> _mary_kate_: its was more a com. of bang per buck.
[14:35:05] <_mary_kate_> glance: solaris is free, so you can compare solaris on niagara to solaris on intel
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[14:35:10] <_mary_kate_> that's a useful comparison
[14:35:18] <glance> asyd: i think it was a t1000 he played with
[14:35:31] <asyd> linux on opteron vs solaris on the same opteron is also a *very* good comparison imho
[14:36:02] <tsoome> there is no point to compare t1000 with opteron as well, unless tha opteron is really old:D
[14:36:12] <tsoome> because t1000 *is* old
[14:36:21] <TheK_> I think most CIOs don't give a damn
[14:36:30] <glance> but when he did his thesis, the t1000 whas the shit back then.
[14:36:34] <TheK_> bang per buck is better. :)
[14:36:41] <glance> and it was a opteron from the same era.
[14:37:32] <tsoome> anyhow, it all depends on app. i have seen many reports from clients, some told niagara doesnt do the job, some picked it at once.
[14:38:00] <Stric> same here.. for some tasks, it kicks ass.. for some, it doesn't
[14:38:06] <tsoome> even for old t1000, not to speak about new niagara2
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[14:38:30] <tsoome> it all will come down to specific tasks you can put on it.
[14:38:39] <TheK_> tsoome: Of course it does. Will the _solution_ do the job, and will it be the cheapest solution which is good enough. The only relevant questions. UNless of course... it has a flashy white frame and impressive light diodes, then it will matter too.
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[15:03:09] <mikl_> Whats the advantage of using Solaris 10 on your server instead of OSOL, apart from the fact that you can get support from Sun?
[15:04:08] <_mary_kate_> it's not an in-development OS that's unsuitable for production use
[15:04:18] <_mary_kate_> it receives patches (including security patches) without having to wait for the next build
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[15:10:19] <codestr0m> *curses firefox*
[15:10:45] <Stric> firefox using libcurses.. hm.
[15:11:38] <codestr0m> Stric: no.. this is my own fault... textbox in web page.. cursor got outside the textbox.. hit the backspace (thinking I would delete text) and voila.. everything I typed is gone
[15:12:03] <codestr0m> oh. which brings up another question. anyone using os2008* as a desktop having a jumping mouse pointer problem
[15:12:37] * Stric has just messed around in virtualbox and through ssh.. no jumping mouse
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[15:13:28] <codestr0m> I have my touchpad speed pretty high which probably doesn't help, but seems like kernel context switching sometimes has an issue
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[15:17:12] <Stric> try attaching an usb mouse or something and see if it differs
[15:17:28] <codestr0m> I'd have to buy one :P
[15:17:41] <Stric> borrow from someone?
[15:18:45] <codestr0m> maybe I could bug one of my neighbors
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[16:13:28] <wonko2> hmmmm
[16:13:35] <wonko2> suspend/resume on the dell d630 is still wonky
[16:13:37] <wonko2> bah
[16:14:29] <unix_monkey> xvm>using GUI virtual manager, virtual NIC is greyed out, and nothing appears in the shared NIC drop down
[16:14:51] <unix_monkey> will virt-install have the same issues?
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[17:02:24] <Gnu_Raiz> anyone getting any pkg errors, I can not install oss sound due to not having a default file somewhere.
[17:02:43] <Gnu_Raiz> I am using snv 97 a clone last night.
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[17:20:26] <Wez> hey folks, I have a solaris privileges question; If I define a role and grant it certain privs, and assign a user to that role, do I need to use a special function to have those privileges take effect if I'm in a root process and setuid()?
[17:20:45] <Wez> I'm guessing that the answer is yes, and would love to be told which man page to RTFM :-)
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[17:28:54] <t_[^^]z> I've just installed but on trying to boot I get an error saying to try booting from a different device, what is the command for this?
[17:31:01] <t_[^^]z> I've tried like, show-disks and then pressing b and then that makes an alias of mydev and then I've tried boot mydev
[17:33:53] <t_[^^]z> at this point it's just booting in a loop
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[17:42:33] <Fullmoon> Cron under OpenSolaris does not accept a PATH setting?
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[17:47:09] <kohju> hi. beer, please :D~~
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[17:59:29] <t_[^^]z> anyone
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[18:00:25] <gnut> hi all
[18:00:57] <gnut> is there a way to make my network use dhcp by default, but if it doesn't get a response, to manually set up the network?
[18:01:14] <gnut> I can't figure out how to get nwam to do that.
[18:02:41] <kohju> can you get IP address 'ifconfig nic0 dhcp'
[18:04:15] <Fullmoon> Damn it, I pfexec chmodded my / to 0774  errorneosly and now I cant change it back because i cant exec pfexec
[18:04:17] <Fullmoon> Any ideas?
[18:05:06] <Fullmoon> Fingerslip
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[18:05:34] <bda> Boot single user/off the LiveCD and fix it.
[18:06:02] <Fullmoon> bda: Any other idea? :)
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[18:24:44] <gnut> kohju: well
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[18:24:48] <gnut> this is for a laptop
[18:24:57] <gnut> when dhcp works, I get an IP address.
[18:25:02] <gnut> then when I go to school
[18:25:16] <gnut> the silly network admins don't have dhcp set up, and I have to manually set it with ifconfig
[18:25:30] <gnut> is there an automated way that nwam can see that dhcp is being ignored, and read a config file?
[18:26:05] <kohju> hm..
[18:27:50] <kohju> so, svcadm disable nwam, touch /etc/dhcp.nic0, svcadm enable svc:/network/physical:default
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[18:29:16] <gnut> I can disable nwam
[18:29:18] <gnut> and set up dhcp
[18:29:29] <gnut> but at school, dhcp is not set up
[18:29:37] <gnut> so I need to manually set up the configuration
[18:30:00] <gnut> my question is: is there a way for solaris to detect that dhcp is not set up on a network, and to fall back to a manual configuration?
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[18:32:31] <ocr> Hi! I installed SXCE on a server, and I forgot to change it to boot xVM by default. Is there a "safe" way to configure grub to try to boot xVM kernel once, then fail back to regular unless it succeds?
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[18:32:48] <jbk> why not just manually select it
[18:32:54] <jbk> and if it works, go back and edit the grub menu
[18:32:56] <jbk> ?
[18:33:00] <ocr> its remote :>
[18:33:26] <ocr> can i get to the boot menu through the ilom?
[18:33:34] <jbk> is it a sun box?
[18:33:38] <ocr> eah
[18:33:41] <ocr> x2200 M2
[18:33:52] <jbk> i believe so, though i haven't messed with it
[18:34:54] <kohju> gnut,  ah...  i am not good at English. Do you mean "if dhcpclient can't get IP Address, set static ip address, automaticaly"?
[18:35:21] <gnut> kohju: yeah.
[18:35:38] <kohju> gnut, without nwam?
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[18:35:58] <ocr> is it safe to just tell /rpool/boot/menu.lst to boot "default 1" ?
[18:36:00] <gnut> kohju: it's okay. I know it can be confusing if things aren't always explicitly said
[18:36:05] <gnut> kohju: it doesn't have to be nwam
[18:36:23] <gnut> kohju: if I can get it to work with nwam, I will use nwam. If it works without nwam, I will not use nwam. It doesn't matter to me.
[18:37:29] <gnut> ah... maybe I can create an llp file and put: bge0 dhcp\n bge0 static
[18:37:36] <kohju> i don't know.... do you write /etc/nwam/ulp/check-conditions under nwam?
[18:38:15] <gnut> no. i haven't
[18:39:09] <kohju> maybe, you can write check-condition script.
[18:39:33] <TomJ> I'm confused about set cpu-shares in zonecfg, is it meant to be done as part of an add rctl or can it just be done direct from the top level?
[18:40:00] <gnut> but the man page says check-conditions is only run after an IP address has been acquired
[18:40:51] <TomJ> oh I see, setting cpu-shares in the top level is an alias to adding the rctl
[18:41:14] <kohju> Hmm........\_o<........... maybe...., inetmenu can do it?
[18:41:38] <gnut> but isn't inetmenu deprecated?
[18:42:05] <kohju> i don't know, but i think so,too.
[18:42:11] <gnut> i'm testing something with nwam now where i put dhcp on one line, and static address on the next
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[18:47:49] <kohju> Hm...
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[18:49:25] <gnut> I think there may be a way to do this with nwam if I have two lines for the interface
[18:49:49] <gnut> but now I don't know how to set the resolv.conf, since once dhcp runs, it overwrites it, and if I go back to the non-dhcp world, resolv.conf is overwritten.
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[18:52:28] <gnut> anyway, i'll try tihs at school. thanks for your help kohju
[18:52:54] <kohju> your welcome.
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[19:24:27] <ocr> I wish to install an ubuntu domU on my SXCE b95. Does there exist a paravirtualized Linux kernel I should use?
[19:24:35] <ocr> or do I need to fully virtualize?
[19:25:26] <e^ipi> you would install it the same way you'd install on any other xen machine
[19:25:45] <e^ipi> jailtime.org might have pre-built images for you
[19:25:49] <ocr> haven't installed any other xen machines on solaris >:
[19:26:02] <ocr> using the virtual machine manager now
[19:26:20] <e^ipi> no, not "xen machine which is solaris"
[19:26:23] <e^ipi> any machine
[19:26:23] * nachox throwns os2008.11 at e^ipi
[19:26:32] <e^ipi> that the host is solaris is almost entirely irrelevant
[19:27:07] <e^ipi> nachox: i don't even have any free machines for that
[19:27:11] <e^ipi> all my computers are SXCE
[19:27:15] <e^ipi> except the laptop
[19:27:18] <e^ipi> which is a mac
[19:27:38] <ocr> ok, still doesn't answer my question :)
[19:27:51] <e^ipi> ocr: no, but reading does
[19:27:51] <ocr> seaching jailtime now
[19:27:52] <nachox> you just need a little push from the right people to find a "free" machine :)
[19:27:54] <e^ipi> that page has a howto
[19:28:08] <ocr> jailtime.org times out for me :>
[19:28:27] <e^ipi> nachox: if my boss requires me to run it, i would
[19:28:30] <e^ipi> but she hasn't
[19:28:35] <e^ipi> so i don't
[19:28:44] <nachox> who is your boss btw?
[19:28:56] <e^ipi> sun
[19:29:49] <nachox> there is no SAP ABAP coder around, is there? :)
[19:31:12] <e^ipi> that's an odd request
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[19:32:45] <nachox> probably, yes
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[19:41:52] <SplasPood> w
[19:43:01] <postwait> In dbx... if I'm attached to a process and it segfaults, how do I tell it to core to a specific path so I can do a deeper dive later?
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[20:17:10] <lordofow> hi
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[20:28:51] <ocr> is it possible to migrate an SXCE installation to newest Indiana and back?
[20:29:48] <trochej> ocr: No
[20:32:53] <e^ipi> nope
[20:34:50] <ocr> whats the reasoning of having both SXCE and Indiana :>
[20:35:06] <ocr> behind*
[20:38:14] <trochej> I wish I knew
[20:38:33] <e^ipi> SXCE is more solaris-y
[20:38:45] <e^ipi> for those of us that want it
[20:39:02] <ocr> while indiana is more linux-y? :)
[20:39:47] <e^ipi> it is designed to attract linux people, yes.
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[20:40:14] <e^ipi> it's also an un-reviewed testbed, much less engineering safeguards to get code in to it
[20:40:35] <e^ipi> "lighter weight to contribute", if you will
[20:42:01] <ocr> i see
[20:42:46] <ocr> i'm a solaris newbie, even though I've admined solaris 8 and 9 machined I find sxce alot to digest ;)
[20:43:03] <e^ipi> it's not that bad
[20:43:08] <e^ipi> it's just different
[20:45:58] <ocr> nono, i find it intriguing!
[20:46:13] <ocr> but hard to find simple answers
[20:46:39] <ocr> seems like i have to read loads of information just to answer a trivial question
[20:47:08] <ocr> mostly i wonder about conventions
[20:48:03] <e^ipi> /topic has the SAG , it's a good read overall
[20:48:06] <ocr> i.e. should i place my zones in /zones or /export/home/zones... should I use ZFS for xen images? i.e. /xen/dev1, /xen/www1, etc--
[20:48:24] <e^ipi> those are sysadmin's choice
[20:48:27] <nachox> you place your zones where ever you want
[20:48:31] <e^ipi> if it makes sense for you to do it, do it
[20:48:45] <e^ipi> i keep mine in /zones and /xen
[20:48:51] <ocr> aye
[20:48:58] <e^ipi> mostly just because it doesn't make sense to keep them in /export to me
[20:49:11] <e^ipi> ( they're not exported anywhere, they're tied to the machine )
[20:49:21] <ocr> what about inheritance.. what do you usually inherit for a zone?
[20:49:34] <e^ipi> depends on the zone
[20:49:47] <e^ipi> my dns server zone has everythnig imported except /etc
[20:50:02] <e^ipi> i have other zones where nothing is imported
[20:50:04] <ocr> what about an app-server
[20:50:53] <nachox> there is really not a single proper way to do it, it deppends on the workload and the admin i guess
[20:50:53] <ocr> or a customer who wants a server to i.e. run python or ruby apps that i normally dont maintain in global zone
[20:51:19] <ocr> thats my problem, i think too much ;)
[20:52:14] <ocr> thing is - is it possible to start with inheriting too much - and inherit less after a while (is there a post-install zone option that i don't know about?)
[20:52:19] <nachox> that is only a problem when there is a deadline in front of you
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[20:52:48] <Vagrant> does sxce now is fully on zfs? like 2008.05?
[20:52:52] <ocr> hehe, no deadlines, but i wish to get started :)
[20:53:10] <ocr> Vagrant: umm yes, you can boot zfs if that's what you mean
[20:54:39] <ocr> since b75 i believe - its on b97 now :O
[20:54:56] <Vagrant> no, i mean full file system
[20:55:17] <e^ipi> Vagrant: yes.
[20:55:37] <Vagrant> thank you
[20:55:39] <e^ipi> Vagrant: boot/root can be installed on zfs
[20:55:57] <nachox> Vagrant, afaik, you need to install from the text based interface if you install from the cd, but yes, you can
[20:56:35] <Vagrant> we will see, 2008.05 gettin me crazy
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[20:59:29] <ocr> is there a sag on virtualization with xen?
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[21:00:56] <ocr> e^ipi: can you recommend a simple path for installing xen-images on sxce? i.e. zfs pooling, assiging resources, mounting, installing? :)
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[21:01:15] <ocr> e^ipi: I am confused by the googled results i find
[21:02:50] <e^ipi> virt-install
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[21:11:57] <ocr> e^ipi: what am I misunderstanding: http://pastie.org/270720
[21:11:59] <ocr> :>
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[21:15:32] <t_[^^]z> how do I change which disk is booted by the command boot
[21:15:44] <e^ipi> you don't have anything in /xen/dev1
[21:16:25] <t_[^^]z> 9 days now trying to get solaris installed on a t2000
[21:16:30] <ocr> just an empty zfs partition
[21:16:50] <ocr> zfs create /xen/dev1 && virt-install
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[21:18:09] <ocr> zfs create rpool/xen && zfs set mountpoint=/xen rpool/xen && xfs create rpool/xen/dev1 && virt-install
[21:18:19] <jbk> t_[^^]z: there are two possible variables the boot command uses
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[21:18:40] <jbk> if diag-switch? is false, it goes through the list in 'boot-device' until it finds one that works
[21:18:51] <jbk> if diag-switch? is true, it uses the values in 'diag-device'
[21:19:10] <t_[^^]z> how can I check if diag-switch? is true or false
[21:19:20] <jbk> from the ok prompt
[21:19:22] <jbk> printenv
[21:19:28] <jbk> or printenv diag-switch? i think
[21:19:33] <jbk> (printenv shows everything)
[21:19:48] <jbk> just can't remember if you can select a specific value
[21:19:48] <t_[^^]z> it's set to true
[21:19:54] <jbk> printenv will show the current & default setting
[21:20:23] <jbk> generally, i'll set both boot-device and diag-device? to the same value
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[21:21:13] <t_[^^]z> boot-device is set to bootdisk
[21:21:59] <jbk> the devalias command will list all the aliases and the corresponding hardware paths
[21:22:50] <t_[^^]z> so, bootdisk is aliased to
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[21:23:26] <t_[^^]z> /pci@7c0/pci@01/pci@0,2/LSILogic,sas@2/disk@0,0:d
[21:25:33] <t_[^^]z> during install i chose the first disk listed
[21:25:42] <jbk> that looks to be target 0
[21:25:52] <jbk> so you probably want to choose something with 't0'
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[21:26:06] <t_[^^]z> which was like, c1t0d0
[21:26:22] <t_[^^]z> and the other one was c1t1d0
[21:26:30] <jbk> though
[21:26:32] <jbk> why slice 4?
[21:26:39] <jbk> did you do zfs root?
[21:26:46] <t_[^^]z> yeah
[21:26:51] <jbk> whole disk?
[21:26:58] <t_[^^]z> yeah
[21:27:15] <jbk> try doing 'boot /pci@....' (the value you pasted, but without the ':d')
[21:30:10] <e^ipi> ocr: if you want to treat a zvol as a device, you need to give it a reservation
[21:30:56] <t_[^^]z> so far seems to be working
[21:31:08] <t_[^^]z> but then again these are very slow to start
[21:34:04] <t_[^^]z> jbk: thanks, how can I set this to always boot this way?
[21:35:06] <holcomb> setenv boot-device disk0
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[21:35:44] <jbk> yeah, there should probably be an existing alias
[21:35:53] <jbk> just find it and set boot-device to that
[21:36:29] <ocr> e^ipi: zfs set reservation=10G rpool/xen/dev1 && virt-install -- same error
[21:36:50] <ocr> Thu, 11 Sep 2008 21:36:56 ERROR    Could not find an installable distribution at '/xen/dev1'
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[21:50:36] <e^ipi> ocr: go read up on the -V flag
[21:50:46] <e^ipi> it is a create-time property
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[21:54:01] *** alanc changes topic to "Latest builds: SXCE 97, ON 97, IPS 97 || Step one: see if SAG answers your question: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/coll/47.16 || Clipboard: http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca"
[21:55:49] <ocr> e^ipi: there is no -V flag
[21:56:02] <ocr> virt-install: error: no such option: -V
[21:56:06] <Stric> zfs create -V blah
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[22:03:06] <ocr> didn't do much for me :(
[22:03:08] <ocr> same error
[22:03:18] <ocr> rpool/xen          20.0G   149G    18K  /xen
[22:03:18] <ocr> rpool/xen/dev1       10G   159G    16K  -
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[22:03:52] <J7> greetings
[22:03:53] <ocr> now i got another error (finally!) : Thu, 11 Sep 2008 22:01:33 ERROR    Invalid install location: Mounting location /local/img/ubuntu.8-04.img failed
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[22:04:28] <J7> I have aquestion can anyone answer
[22:05:14] <alanc> since no one here knows the answers to all questions, it's hard to say until you ask the question
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[22:05:58] <J7> excellent alanc thanks for responding... well heres my question. I'm running xp on my system... can I run Debian simultaniously?
[22:06:00] <ocr> seems like the image is corrupt :> cannot mount it: mount -F hsfs `lofiadm -a /local/img/ubuntu.8-04.img` /mnt/loop
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[22:06:03] <ocr> hsfs mount: /dev/lofi/1 is not an hsfs file system.
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[22:06:32] <J7> or opensolaris for that matter
[22:06:52] <alanc> J7: probably, using VirtualBox or VMWare or Xen, but none of those are opensolaris, so why aren't you asking in an XP or Debian channel?
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[22:07:45] <J7> cuz Im new linux distributions having used Microsoft products for so long
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[22:08:21] <J7> how does open solaris work?
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[22:08:33] <J7> I know thats a loaded qeustion
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[22:08:58] <ksh93terrorbot> Bot
[22:09:15] <alanc> opensolaris is an opterating system you install on your computer and run, like Linux or Windows
[22:09:16] <Stric> J7: explain maths to me
[22:10:09] <ksh93terrorbot> Bot test##001
[22:10:26] <Stric> ksh93terrorbot: failure.
[22:11:03] <J7> thanks alanc... I guess I still need a lot more researching.. to get up to speed
[22:11:10] <J7> math.. whats math?
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[22:11:34] <Stric> "how does open solaris work" isn't a very good question
[22:11:46] <ksh93terrorbot> /bin/ksh93: failure. not found [No such file or directory]
[22:12:08] <Stric> ksh93terrorbot: uadmin 2 0
[22:12:57] <ksh93terrorbot> Usage: /usr/sbin/uadmin cmd fcn [mdep]
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[22:14:39] <holcomb> how does babby formed?
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[22:15:33] <alanc> so what happens if you send rm -r * to the ksh93 bot?
[22:15:51] <Stric> since it's someone typing on the other side, probably nothing
[22:16:07] <Stric> or it has quite a horrible lag and string mangling ;)
[22:16:10] <holcomb> awww make it come back.
[22:17:57] <sailorvrz_> it's nearly impossible to find ram for an old ultra10 :(
[22:19:13] <sailorvrz_> can't decide whether to use my ultra10 + solaris 10 or a g3 b&w + linux as a home server... :/
[22:21:08] <Kimloc> sailorvrz_: try some nearby university ;)
[22:21:48] <sailorvrz_> nah they're greedy... they use all the precious ram for their own boxes :)
[22:22:10] <sailorvrz_> nothing on egay either
[22:23:33] <sailorvrz_> Kimloc: just saw your ident... as we live in the same town... you've got any to sell? *g*
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[22:26:55] <Kimloc> sailorvrz_: Nope, I've no sparc boxes at home. But ocasionally the unix-ag gives 1-2 away, but even there only a "few" are left. And a few crappy Blade 100.
[22:28:14] <e^ipi> toss an LSI SAS card in there and a sata drive, probably not so bad
[22:28:18] <e^ipi> given enough ram
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[22:29:59] <Kimloc> nah, the BUS is way too slow
[22:30:21] <sailorvrz_> e^ipi, considering the price of sas cards and sas hds it will be cheaper to build an amd64 server ;)
[22:30:36] <e^ipi> probably
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[22:31:22] <sailorvrz_> Kimloc, blade 100? how much? can I trade one for let's say two ultra10s? :D
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[22:32:41] <Kimloc> sailorvrz_: uhm, may be. could ask the other guys *shrug* but why do you want a blade 100?
[22:33:09] <sailorvrz_> Still better (and bigger) than a Ultra 10 Creator 3D
[22:34:52] <Kimloc> they also die faster ;)
[22:35:29] <sailorvrz_> really? why?
[22:36:12] <Kimloc> I've no idea, could be that they like heat a lot less than the U10
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[22:36:38] <Kimloc> a lot of IDE controllers died in the blades
[22:37:09] <sailorvrz_> hm. interesting
[22:38:19] <Kimloc> we had also a few problems with overheating U60, which quite sad, wanted to use a "new" one for firewalling
[22:39:40] <sailorvrz_> I've never expirienced any problems with a U10
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[22:41:05] <sailorvrz_> Well ok... the first thing I did was to install linux as I don't like Solaris 9 and 10 was awfully slow
[22:41:31] <e^ipi> well, that was your first problem
[22:41:35] <e^ipi> linux + sparc = horrible
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[22:41:57] <Kimloc> indeed, especially if you want X
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[22:42:05] <Kimloc> with firefox or something like that
[22:42:17] <Kimloc> framebuffer is even worse
[22:46:03] <sailorvrz_> Heh yeah luckily I have a big ass gfx in the U10
[22:47:39] <Kimloc> something better than the c3D?
[22:49:42] <sailorvrz_> I don't think so... it's just a very long card
[22:50:24] <sailorvrz_> There's no name on it
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[22:57:37] <twisti> Anyone running tetex from SFW?
[22:59:09] <sailorvrz_> well.. gn8
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[23:12:01] <jaek> how up-to-date are the packages in opensolaris? how long does a package usually take to get into the repository?
[23:12:59] <alanc> varies greatly by the package and the maintainer
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[23:13:21] <alanc> some are years behind, others are updated within a couple weeks of upstream releases
[23:13:48] <jaek> right now i'm mainly worried about x.org, gnome, firefox and so on
[23:13:49] <alanc> (currently there's a 2-3 week delay from when the package is built to when it appears on the pkg.opensolaris.org repo)
[23:13:51] <YC> Is there any way of manually obtaining a package from pkg.opensolaris.org? pkg install keeps timing out...
[23:14:28] <alanc> jaek: Xorg server is still at 1.3, other X packages are more current, GNOME is working on the 2.24 update now, Firefox is at 3.0.1
[23:15:12] <alanc> (Xorg 1.5 is a work in progress, but won't happen until after 2008.11 release is out the door - too many other things to get done for that first)
[23:15:32] <jaek> how about compiz? how recent is it? /me should just look in the repo
[23:15:49] <alanc> I don't remember compiz version off hand - the GNOME team maintains that package
[23:16:39] <jaek> what about the video drivers? are there closed source drivers from nvidia available?
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[23:17:48] <jaek> i'm just wondering if i should try opensolaris on this box instead of the usual debian
[23:18:06] <alanc> yes, nvidia closed drivers are bundled on the LiveCD and in the repo, or downloadable from nvidia.com
[23:18:22] <jaek> oh sweet, this seems like it should all work
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[23:19:01] <jaek> oh, last question... can the installer resize existing ntfs partitions?
[23:20:19] <McBofh> no
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[23:20:43] <jaek> lucky me i have gparted on my systemrestore usb key
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[23:23:36] <McBofh> I successfully used gparted to resize the ntfs vista partition on my dell laptop a few months back, and then installed SXCE on it with no problems
[23:23:44] <McBofh> it.... just ...... took                                  ages
[23:23:47] <McBofh> big disk :)
[23:27:53] <jaek> this is a 250gb drive so it prolly will take forever too
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[23:37:31] <jaek> wow. i started defragging this drive 20 mins ago, and it is still at 4%
[23:37:56] <Stric> leave it over night
[23:38:10] <jaek> BUT I WANT SOLARIS NAAAU!
[23:39:32] <e^ipi> defrag?
[23:39:50] <jaek> yeah you have to defrag NTFS partitions before you resize them...
[23:39:59] <e^ipi> how primitive
[23:40:16] <jaek> yeah it is pretty retarded
[23:40:43] <jaek> you'd *think* that MS would invent the most flexible and robust FS ever concieved by human minds, but... no.
[23:41:31] <e^ipi> why would you think that?
[23:41:54] <Stric> compared to zfs (zpool) which can't be shrunk..
[23:45:39] <jaek> i was wondering about that... can you remove a partition from a pool once you add it?
[23:46:06] <Stric> no, but you can replace it with something of equal or larger size
[23:46:19] <Stric> how about that for the most flexible FS ever concieved by human minds ;)
[23:46:58] <McBofh> shrinking a pool is actually a reasonably difficult problem to solve
[23:47:31] <jaek> replace how? by physically removing the drive?
[23:47:42] <e^ipi> zpool replace
[23:47:58] <Stric> replace as in letting something else take its place
[23:47:59] <e^ipi> then you can yank the drive
[23:48:07] <jbk> afternoon
[23:48:08] <jaek> oh i see
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[23:48:12] <McBofh> jbk: gday
[23:48:24] <Stric> by having a replacement storage unit first, migrate to that, then remove the old.. all done with zpool replace
[23:48:24] <jbk> hmm no gman..
[23:48:42] <jaek> i see...
[23:48:51] <jaek> so you can never shrink a pool...?
[23:48:56] <jaek> what if you really really want to
[23:49:06] <Stric> McBofh: on a "tortured system", I believe so.. but on a quiet system, it shouldn't be hard to move the blocks
[23:49:10] <Stric> jaek: tough.
[23:49:13] <McBofh> jaek: then you still really really can't
[23:49:16] <jbk> McBofh: i hope so
[23:49:29] <McBofh> Stric: define "quiet system" :)
[23:49:42] <jaek> a desktop machine running only xchat ;)
[23:49:50] <Stric> McBofh: not having while(1){snapshot;rename;create;destroy}
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[23:49:53] <McBofh> jaek: they're working on it, last I heard Team ZFS was hoping for an October 2008 delivery
[23:49:54] <jbk> latest forcasts show us taking a direct hit from hurrican ike
[23:49:58] <McBofh> Stric: ha!
[23:50:08] <McBofh> jbk: I thought you were up the coast a fair way?
[23:50:21] <jaek> oh cool, so they are planning on implmenting it eventually
[23:50:58] <Stric> jaek: on a different note, zfs/zpool isn't like regular storage.. you don't say "I want this partition of size X allocated to filesystem A, and disk 3 of size Y allocated to fs B"..
[23:51:20] <Stric> jaek: you add all disks together and then A and B can use space as they need from the X+Y sized pool
[23:51:25] <jbk> i'm about 90km from the coast
[23:51:27] <Stric> jaek: but you can constrain them if you want
[23:51:37] <Stric> jaek: see zfs demos over at opensolaris.org or so
[23:51:43] <jaek> yeah i saw them
[23:51:44] <jbk> and previous models had it landing further southwest of here
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[23:53:02] <McBofh> jbk: no, I meant, like up near NY
[23:53:11] <jbk> oh no
[23:53:18] <jbk> i'm in houston :)
[23:53:21] <McBofh> ouch
[23:53:29] <McBofh> hope it works out ok for you
[23:53:33] <McBofh> ... and the rest of the country
[23:53:37] <jbk> i hope so too :)
[23:54:04] <jbk> though where i'm at it's just really wind damage or tornados that are the biggest potential problem
[23:55:20] <jbk> we've all been watching noaa.gov & stormpulse.com the past few days :)
[23:55:33] <turtle> yeah i'm in the keys
[23:55:40] <turtle> i was tracking stormpulse all last week
[23:55:42] <turtle> but we didn't get shit
[23:55:47] <McBofh> lucky!
[23:56:03] <McBofh> at least you've got sites to look at which show that sort of detail
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[23:59:30] <jbk> yeah, but sometimes it doesn't help much
[23:59:40] <jbk> like with this, the path's been rather erratic





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