[00:00:04] <alanc> I don't think it has anything of the sort
[00:00:13] <ceri> Shame
[00:00:18] <alanc> but I'm a hg newbie
[00:01:09] <stevel> keywords are evil
[00:01:49] <stevel> (imho)
[00:01:54] <stevel> and no, mercurial doesn't support them natively
[00:02:07] <stevel> they blow the performance of hg into serious suck-land
[00:02:24] <ceri> I see their downsides, but there's a definite in in being able to ask a user to post their revision Ids.
[00:03:01] <ceri> Perhaps not so much for OpenSolaris though
[00:04:39] <tsp> I'm reading the hg logs obtained with hg log, if it says something like tagged as snv_77 does that mean that onnv76 is out and done with?
[00:04:40] <stevel> for source file identification, or binary object identification?
[00:04:47] <stevel> tsp: nope
[00:04:52] <stevel> tsp: the tags are applied when the build closes
[00:05:25] <stevel> in general you can assume that the n-1 build should be available, but that's a function of the gatekeeper's time :)
[00:05:34] <ceri> stevel: kind of both.  In FreeBSD we have ident(1) which pulls CVS Id tags from binaries.
[00:05:51] <tsp> what does the gatekeeper do? I could checkout snv_76 now and probably compile it
[00:05:52] <ceri> It is useful.
[00:06:02] <tsp> at least parts of it
[00:06:04] <stevel> ceri: right - but the problem with a distributed SCM like Teamware, SCCS, or Hg is that it's not guaranteed what keyword came from what repo
[00:06:25] <stevel> tsp: yeah - but those tags are from when the build closes - and aren't necessarily what ON delivers to the WOS
[00:06:33] * stevel is getting confused with two convo's going on at the same time
[00:06:41] * tsp idles
[00:06:45] <tsp> too confusing :)
[00:06:56] <ceri> stevel: understood, of course.  I'm just saying it's useful, not critical or anything
[00:07:03] <stevel> ceri: you could use the globally unique hash i suppose; but you still have the serious performance issues with updating every file as you checkout
[00:07:16] <stevel> ceri: mildly useful :) not worth the disadvantages IMHO
[00:07:46] <stevel> for binary object identification, you could use the result of 'hg id', put that into a -D compiler flag and compile it into your objects
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[00:07:52] <stevel> or on OpenSolaris use the CTF data
[00:08:12] <ceri> yep, yep, yep.  Just that those disadvantages don't exist with CVS, which of course has its own problems
[00:08:14] <alanc> or use mcs to put the hash in the binary
[00:08:32] <stevel> ceri: indeed. they make more sense for CVS & SVN since they are centralised.
[00:08:45] <stevel> different model of revision control == different advantages & different disadvantages
[00:08:49] <stevel> it's all a tradeoff i suppose
[00:08:50] <ceri> I'm not saying for a second that hg isn't a big win, just thinking out loud :)
[00:09:02] <stevel> ceri: ah... well therein is your problem. ;-)
[00:09:05] <stevel> this is #opensolaris
[00:09:06] <stevel> no thinking allowed
[00:09:10] * stevel ducks
[00:09:16] <jbk> i didn't know management was in here
[00:09:30] <billybob> ah, the marine core of OSes . . .
[00:09:42] <billybob> corp*
[00:09:52] <stevel> jbk: glynn's not around if that's who you're talking about ;-)
[00:09:56] <stevel> he'll kill me for that
[00:10:01] <jbk> i didn't know he was management
[00:10:08] <stevel> program management, not quite the same
[00:10:12] <jbk> oh
[00:10:13] <stevel> vastly different in fact
[00:10:19] <jbk> yeah, that doesn't count :)
[00:10:26] <stevel> but it has the word "manage" in it
[00:10:38] <stevel> which entitles us to make fun of him
[00:11:06] <jbk> ok i could see that :)
[00:11:11] <jbk> could be worse
[00:11:14] <jbk> my last job
[00:11:26] <jbk> a guy actually had a title of 'director of synergy achievement'
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[00:11:39] <stevel> synergy will be achieved when the director is defenestrated
[00:12:10] <webmink> are you allowed to mention windows here?
[00:12:11] <mog> indiana dir exisists but its empty...
[00:12:36] <stevel> webmink: i think its legit to reference them as tools for pain
[00:12:45] <webmink> mog: release is tomorrow
[00:12:49] <billybob> hah.
[00:13:01] <mog> then why did they put all the stuff on the web?
[00:13:12] <webmink> mog: Unlike marketing pages, the fact they are being edited by engineers means they aren't hidden :-)
[00:13:29] <webmink> (despite what Keith thinks)
[00:13:42] <webmink> They are being staged, out in the open
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[00:24:49] <ceri> g' night all
[00:24:54] <binarycrusader> night
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[00:44:31] * nrubsig throws a stone at JBeck's window...
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[00:45:54] <jmcp> ah joy - the x86 version of the patch which adds MPxIO support for mpt is now on sunsolve - http://sunsolve.sun.com/search/document.do?assetkey=1-21-125082-10-1&searchclause=125082-10
[00:45:59] <jmcp> I'll have to blog about it
[00:46:02] <auto359> has anyone heard of SXDE being installed onto a new 24" Mac?
[00:46:29] <auto359> jmcp: hi, how's things? when you back in brissy?
[00:46:36] <jmcp> back on the weekend
[00:46:43] <auto359> k, neat
[00:46:44] <jmcp> feeling the cold a bit here
[00:47:00] <jmcp> and I'm really happy that one of our patches has appeared on sunsolve
[00:47:10] <auto359> cold ... nice, getting humid quickly here, yeah, saw that
[00:47:24] <flyingparchment> jmcp: no 16-bit cdbs? :(
[00:47:30] <flyingparchment> er 16-byte
[00:47:59] <jmcp> flyingparchment: doesn't look like it, sorry
[00:48:18] <flyingparchment> so i can multipath as long as all my devices are smaller than 2TB ;)
[00:51:17] <wesolows> you can multipath as long as the lun in question is in the mpxio table, which is to say as long as it's a 2501
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[00:55:18] <auto359> jmcp: you working on a powerbook etc?
[00:56:14] <jmcp> auto359: nope, I'm on an aging amd64 laptop
[00:56:57] <auto359> jmcp: ah 8-), just wanted to ask java/osx question, no biggie, think this powerbook is all java'd up
[00:57:02] <billybob> heh the Basica admins guide assumes you have 2 years UNIX experience . .  .
[00:57:13] * billybob wonders if there is a basicbasic admin guide
[00:57:21] * auto359 is in a boatload of trouble then ...
[00:59:34] <auto359> billybob: http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Teaching/Unix/
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[01:00:11] <billybob> heh well thats what the basic admin guide, then in the same 'book' it goes on to show the reader how to become su . . .
[01:00:28] <billybob> I would think anyone with 2 years UNIX experience would know how to do that.
[01:00:39] * auto359 hates that osx doesn't do the home/end/backspace thing ...
[01:00:44] <flyingparchment> users don't need to su, only admins do
[01:01:13] <billybob> so admins operate in a vacuum ?
[01:01:20] <flyingparchment> huh?
[01:01:33] <flyingparchment> if you had 2 years of unix experience, as a user, you wouldn't know su
[01:01:47] <billybob> you dahmed well better as far as I am concerned.
[01:01:58] <flyingparchment> why?  users don't need to su.  admins su.  users use.
[01:03:06] <billybob> if you've been using UNIX for 2 years, and do not know what su is, then you probably have your head up your rear ; )
[01:03:25] <billybob> ie, you really do not even know the system.
[01:03:36] <auto359> anyone know of a good sun/solaris dealer in olde london town?
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[01:22:48] <Xtrondo> is just me or lock screen option from gnome 2.20.1 doesn't work?
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[01:43:12] <zuluzulu_> auto359: Try fn-delete, Apple-left, and apple-right
[01:44:30] <auto359> zuluzulu_: k, ta, what is "fn"?
[01:44:54] <zuluzulu_> bottom left there should be a key labeled "fn"
[01:45:09] <auto359> not on this kbd
[01:45:12] <zuluzulu_> At least on my MacBook pro there is.
[01:45:31] <zuluzulu_> What keyboard do you have?
[01:45:48] <auto359> ah got it, i have a mac see-thru kbd plugged in, i can see then "fn" key on the popwerbok itself, ta
[01:46:05] <auto359> the* powerbook*
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[01:46:41] <auto359> k, reboot into desktop
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[01:49:32] <zuluzulu_> I just started using a Mac about a month ago, but I've learned some tricks. Like how to right click, by tapping with two fingers instead of one.
[01:49:52] <zuluzulu_> (I think you have to set that up in the OS prefs though)
[01:50:13] <zuluzulu_> (Sorry for the OT discussion)... I'll stop now
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[01:54:56] <alyandon> Someone in here mind fielding a hopefully relatively simple question about a sun blade workstation?
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[01:55:40] <alanc> hard to say without knowing what the question is
[01:55:46] <Sillystring> hello
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[01:56:07] <Sillystring> would opensolaris be open to a port of pf?
[01:56:08] <alyandon> I picked up a sun blade 100 workstation off ebay and I'm having a hard time determining if it is DOA or if I'm just being dumb
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[01:56:30] <alyandon> the onboard video adapter is a standard vga pinout - correct?
[01:56:39] <jmcp> correct
[01:56:52] <alyandon> So any relatively recent multisync monitor should be able to display the boot up screen regardless of what resolution is set in the firmware?
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[01:57:10] <alyandon> I've tried booting this thing with both a Multisync 97F and a IBM P260 attached
[01:57:18] <jmcp> correct, it should
[01:57:23] <alanc> yep
[01:57:24] <jpdrawneek> Any Zone guys about?
[01:57:25] <jmcp> have you tried connecting on the serial port?
[01:57:28] <alyandon> the monitors act like they are receiving a signal briefly and then display the "no signal"
[01:57:42] <Sillystring> try sshinng into it
[01:57:45] <jamesd> jpdrawneek, yes... i use zones.. i don't code them
[01:57:46] <alyandon> That would be my next step but I don't have a null modem cable handy
[01:57:55] <alyandon> also this thing has no OS on the hard drive
[01:58:13] <alyandon> Would it be worthwhile perhaps to try and boot off the solaris 9/10 install media?
[01:58:20] <jpdrawneek> got a odd bug? in b75 - ip-type=exclusive does not work correctly
[01:58:36] <alyandon> or even an opensolaris distro?
[01:59:09] <jpdrawneek> it just takes the global zones idenity - no option to set ip/hostname
[01:59:12] <flyingparchment> alyandon: is a keyboard connected?
[01:59:30] <alyandon> flyingparchment: yes - i picked up a sun type 6 usb keyboard - verified working on a windows machine
[02:00:33] <alyandon> funny thing is that i can't even toggle the numlock light on the keyboard when it is connected to the blade
[02:00:40] <jpdrawneek> any body seen that in b75?
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[02:09:57] <Sillystring> does solaris as of b75 still use STREAMS?
[02:10:42] <sommerfeld> yes.
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[02:11:26] <sommerfeld> STREAMS is used by a number of subsystems (ttys, usb, etc.,) to pass data around.
[02:11:31] <Sillystring> would there be any interest in a port of OpenBSD's pf?
[02:11:32] <sommerfeld> it's being used less & less by networking, though
[02:11:59] <Sillystring> or is darren got a lock on that aspect?
[02:12:18] <Sillystring> s/is/has
[02:12:31] <sommerfeld> so the key question is whether users of solaris would want to use pf instead of ipf.
[02:12:52] <Sillystring> or, would anyone like to use pf
[02:13:04] <sommerfeld> and whether you could plug in pf via the packet filtering hooks
[02:13:51] <sommerfeld> (if you couldn't port pf to use the packet filtering hooks it would be interesting to know what they were missing)
[02:15:05] <nrubsig> Sillystring: could you please make a comparisation "ipf vs. pf" and post it to networking-discuss at opensolaris dot org , please ?
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[02:20:22] <Sillystring> nrubsig, i don't think of it as a vs. type deal
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[02:20:38] <Sillystring> its like saying, do you want a ferrari or a lamborgini
[02:20:55] <Sillystring> some people like the styling of a ferrari for example
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[02:26:07] <nrubsig> Sillystring: are there any features in "pf" which you would like to see in "ipf" ?
[02:26:45] * dlg hasnt kept up wiht ipf recently
[02:27:03] <dlg> does ipf let you filter tcp/udp connections to the local machine by uid/gid?
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[02:30:08] <jmcp> morning all
[02:30:12] <dlg> ola jmcp
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[02:31:11] <jmcp> ola
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[02:42:46] <jbk> hello
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[02:43:45] <jmcp> hi
[02:43:55] <jbk> sup?
[02:43:58] <auto359> dlg: hi, osx question if you can
[02:45:46] <auto359> dlg: never mind, sorted
[02:46:09] <jmcp> jbk: one patch on sunsolve, hoping to see the other there late today or early tomorrow
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[02:55:44] <Triskelios> wow, the implementation of asprintf() that Erwann patched into compiz calls tmpfile()
[02:56:47] <Triskelios> and writes to resulting file descriptor
[02:57:12] <Triskelios> creative!
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[03:06:41] <Triskelios> I'm not kidding - http://www.gnome.org/~erwannc/compiz/compiz-solaris-2-3-7.diff
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[03:09:04] <cub-> Do I have to load any software for Solaris 10 to see the luns on a 3510 connected by FC ?
[03:09:59] <cub-> I'm done creating a raid1 lun on the 3510, struggling to make it visible to the v440 running solaris 10 update 4
[03:10:00] <jmcp> cub-: make sure your san patches are up to date, then they should show up automatically
[03:10:15] <jmcp> make sure the 3510 has your v440's port wwns mapped
[03:10:25] <cub-> ahh, that... i haven't done
[03:11:01] <jmcp> the targets and luns should show up with "cfgadm -lav -o show_SCSI_lun" or "cfgadm -lav -o show_FCP_DEV"
[03:11:02] <cub-> jmcp: in the telnet menu, is it in "View and Edit Host lun" ?
[03:11:10] <jmcp> man cfgadm_fp for more details on that
[03:11:14] <jmcp> I think so
[03:11:24] <jmcp> it's been a looooooong time since I connected to a 3510 controller
[03:11:25] <cub-> yeah, i'm a gui sissy
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[03:11:37] <billybob> lol
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[03:13:50] <cub-> jmcp: the wwms ... I have to add them manually ?  The other 3510 I have connected has been working .... there has never been any wwm defined on it
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[03:15:31] <jmcp> it depends on your zoning
[03:15:48] <jmcp> so what is different between the two se3510s?
[03:16:57] <cub-> oh ahh....that zoning stuff on the switch
[03:17:31] <cub-> don't think i know how to configure zoning on that thing
[03:18:11] <jmcp> if the second 3510 is not in the same zone as the first one, then you should not be able to see the luns on your host at all
[03:18:33] <jmcp> cub-: most FC switches have a point-n-click gui which lets you do zoning in a fairly sensible fashion
[03:18:36] <cub-> jmcp: and by adding the wwms manually, I will be able to see anyway, right ?
[03:20:03] <cub-> can I overwrite the zoning with wwms added manually on the 3510 ?
[03:20:25] <jmcp> nit -it's W W Ns
[03:20:29] <jmcp> world wide names
[03:20:40] <jmcp> no, you can't override the switch's zoning on the 3510
[03:20:47] <jmcp> check the switch zoning first
[03:21:57] <cub-> gawd...I hope i can get to it from the serial port the same way as the 3510
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[03:23:15] <jmcp> try connecting to the switch via your browser
[03:24:12] <cub-> ok, i'll do that once i find out the IP address tomorrow
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[03:25:06] <cub-> thanks jmcp
[03:25:17] <FrostCS> hrm, up to 75 now we are, I  see... lots of catching up to do :-D
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[03:29:35] <billybob> jmcp: just out of curiosity what is it that you do wit hthe kernel exactly
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[03:30:52] <jmcp> billybob: I work on the mpt driver (SAS), and associated utilities
[03:31:08] <billybob> founds like fun
[03:31:11] <jmcp> as well as doing sundry other x86-related driver/util work, mainly in the storage area
[03:31:12] <billybob> sounds*
[03:31:25] <jmcp> at worst it keeps me occupied :)
[03:31:37] <billybob> so you're making sure that SAS drivers are covered ?
[03:31:44] <jmcp> kinda
[03:32:04] <jmcp> there's another group within our team that works on the Adaptec aac driver
[03:32:19] <jmcp> and we're always keeping up with developments
[03:32:35] <billybob> let me ask this; from your perspective which seems to be the best controller out there at the moment ?
[03:33:16] <jmcp> in terms of "best support by Solaris" I'd go with mpt
[03:33:22] <jmcp> best supported, rather
[03:33:35] <jmcp> I've got an Areca card to test when I get back to Brisbane
[03:33:36] <billybob> I am very interrested in SAS coupled with mass SATA disks for non mission critical storage
[03:33:44] <jmcp> you and me both
[03:33:46] <billybob> nice
[03:33:57] <jmcp> the problem for me is finding an appropriate chassis to put the disks in
[03:34:10] <billybob> same here
[03:34:13] <billybob> and actually
[03:34:17] <billybob> I am designing one
[03:34:22] <billybob> from scratch
[03:34:28] <jmcp> interesting
[03:34:49] <jmcp> how far have you got?
[03:34:52] <billybob> I have to get a sheet metal break built, and once I get that done Ill be all over it
[03:35:28] <jmcp> going to support SAS disks as well?
[03:35:32] <billybob> jmcp: how many disks are you looking to stre ?
[03:35:35] <billybob> no.
[03:35:43] <billybob> initially I was thinking PM support only
[03:35:49] <jmcp> I'd like to have at least 6 disks, but preferably 12
[03:35:56] <jmcp> PM == port multiplier?
[03:35:59] <billybob> but if I can scrape enough together I may get an areca card
[03:36:02] <billybob> yeah
[03:36:24] <billybob> as far as SAS support . . .
[03:36:41] <billybob> right now I only have the enclosure in mind
[03:36:52] <billybob> no hardware inside other than a stock Antec PSU
[03:36:57] <jmcp> 3.5" disks only, right?
[03:37:05] <jmcp> 400W?
[03:37:06] <billybob> depends
[03:37:08] <billybob> 450W
[03:37:23] <jmcp> nod
[03:37:39] <jmcp> so how about the electronics?
[03:38:04] <billybob> the PSU i have in mind has two fans . . . . and I plan on designing the case so the 'external' fan draws ait fro mthe outside
[03:38:11] <billybob> define 'electronics'
[03:38:23] <billybob> you loking for a blackplaned removable rack ?
[03:38:28] <billybob> looking*
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[03:39:06] <jmcp> yeah :)
[03:39:17] <billybob> that I probably could nto build
[03:39:18] <jmcp> have you got the circuits designed is what I really mean
[03:39:23] <billybob> and I was thinking of purchasing one
[03:39:48] <jmcp> have you seen products like this? http://www.cooldrives.com/sata-ii-drive-enclosure-removable-rack-multilane.html
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[03:40:05] <billybob> as far as the expanders go . . . i have not been able to find any without buying hardware to go with it
[03:40:30] <billybob> probably I havehat page bookmarked on my igoogle page
[03:40:34] <jbk> nice
[03:40:35] <billybob> well website
[03:41:02] <billybob> jmcp: look at addonics.com
[03:41:10] <jmcp> yeah, I visit that site occasionally
[03:41:14] <xinkeT> jmcp: you know the port multipler stuff doesn't work..
[03:41:26] <jmcp> xinkeT: yes, in fact I emailed that detail out to storage-discuss just yesterday
[03:41:33] <billybob> port multiplier stuff *does* work ; )
[03:41:37] <billybob> maybe not in solaris
[03:41:40] <jbk> anyone know what system the guy at the summit had 'the worlds smallest opensolaris box' ?
[03:41:43] <jmcp> billybob: not in solaris yet
[03:41:50] <billybob> ah
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[03:41:56] <billybob> yeah its al lfake raid stuff anyhow
[03:41:57] <jmcp> xinkeT: so it's "doesn't work yet, but is being worked on"
[03:41:59] <billybob> HOWEVER
[03:42:03] <xinkeT> i sold my norcotek ds-1220 for this reason.. yeah, I know it's being worked on
[03:42:14] <billybob> jmcp: have you looked into thatnew hardware port multiplier ?
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[03:43:00] <billybob> jmcp: basically you set the PM on a SIL3132 capable system, and afterthat it *should* work on any system, not matter the OS, so long as it has an eSATA port
[03:43:06] <jmcp> billybob: not yet
[03:43:57] <billybob> thats enclosure you linked to as multilane right ?
[03:44:03] <billybob> was multilane*
[03:44:30] <xinkeT> i'm waiting on these to become available... http://tinyurl.com/37g2lt
[03:44:31] <jmcp> yeah
[03:45:04] <billybob> jmcp: well you do know that you *could* buy a 3/4u rack, mount it full of drives, and then right multilane out right ?
[03:45:17] <billybob> and the nrun multilane out*
[03:45:46] <billybob> addonics and cooldrives both sell multilane adapters
[03:46:17] <jmcp> xinkeT: oooooooh!
[03:46:29] <xinkeT> jmcp: yeah baby
[03:46:32] <jmcp> billybob: true, but I don't want to run rackmount hw in my office - since my office is at home
[03:46:34] <billybob> they are even faily cheap at $30 usd a pop, but the cabling . . .thats semi expencive
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[03:47:39] <billybob> jmcp: well the enclosure I am planning on building, may resemble a 4u, or more liek a double wide 3x5.25 bay case, with 120mm fans for cooling, and quiteness
[03:48:03] <jmcp> I'd love to see something like the Sun || scsi multipack
[03:48:12] <billybob> have a link to a picture ?
[03:48:14] <jmcp> if it's quiet then I'm interested
[03:48:16] <jmcp> getting one ...
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[03:49:04] <jmcp> http://images.google.com/images?q=sun+multipack+scsi
[03:49:11] <jmcp> I've got a 6disk one at the moment
[03:49:16] <billybob> jmcp: anyhow, I participate on a modders forum . . .and  . ..
[03:49:19] <jbk> jmcp: is that your normal work location?
[03:49:20] * billybob looks at picture
[03:49:22] <jmcp> jbk: yes
[03:49:31] <jbk> jmcp: bastard :)
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[03:49:48] <billybob> jmcp: that is not very far off what I had in mind
[03:49:56] <billybob> but no removable rack
[03:50:09] <billybob> I had planned on vertically mounting the drivers
[03:50:18] <jmcp> the removable stuff seems to actually be a bit difficult
[03:50:26] <jmcp> mechanically, I mean
[03:50:28] <jmcp> yes
[03:50:42] <billybob> I had though about making the enclosure 9" wide
[03:51:05] <billybob> and stacking as many drives sideways as I could
[03:51:20] <billybob> haning on a cutsom mounting bracket that could be removed
[03:51:27] <jmcp> sounds good
[03:51:34] <billybob> possibly with a swinging fron tdoor
[03:51:43] <jmcp> I just wish that 2.5" 7200rpm sata drives were more readily available
[03:51:54] <jmcp> the multipack had a removable side wall
[03:51:57] <billybob> if I do that though, I like access lights, so I would probably do leds also
[03:52:15] <billybob> you mean larger 2.5's ?
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[03:52:25] <billybob> I can get seagates here all day long
[03:52:34] <billybob> but 200GB is not a lot.
[03:52:35] <jmcp> like the ones we put in the t2000 and x2100
[03:52:36] <jmcp> I know
[03:52:37] <jmcp> :(
[03:52:49] <billybob> and those . . .wtf makes those
[03:53:08] <billybob> those 8x2.5 from 3x 5.25 bay racks with expander
[03:53:15] <jmcp> chenbro have one
[03:53:20] <jmcp> I think
[03:53:25] <billybob> possibly but
[03:53:32] <billybob> there is another
[03:53:51] <billybob> oh wait
[03:53:58] <billybob> you're thinking i mean full case
[03:54:09] <billybob> I mean a blackplan hdd rack
[03:54:21] <billybob> come with built in LSI expander
[03:54:24] <jmcp> oh
[03:54:27] <billybob> runs $400 usd . . .
[03:54:29] <jmcp> got a url?
[03:54:40] <billybob> supermico makes it i think
[03:54:50] <billybob> hold on new install here ill have to google around a bit
[03:55:02] <jmcp> ta
[03:56:26] <billybob> ok i was slightly wrong
[03:56:33] <billybob> its from 2x 5.25 bays
[03:56:34] <billybob> http://www.pc-pitstop.com/sas_cables_enclosures/
[03:56:40] <billybob> look on the bottom
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[03:57:46] <jmcp> ta
[03:59:01] <billybob> I dont know where he is front specifically
[03:59:08] <billybob> are you AU or UK ?
[03:59:17] <billybob> brisbane == au right ?
[03:59:20] <jmcp> AU
[03:59:50] <billybob> ah, dahm, I was going to mention this guy I know from a modder forum that may have been able to hook you up
[03:59:57] <billybob> hes in the UK though
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[04:00:15] <jmcp> not much good to me then !
[04:00:15] <jmcp> that url .... hmmmm
[04:00:19] <jmcp> some of my colleagues will be interested in that
[04:00:38] <billybob> i bet lol
[04:00:47] <billybob> oh, the modder forum guy ?
[04:01:04] <jmcp> yeah
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[04:01:31] <billybob> I dont know what hes got going on but  they can check out mashie.org, and ask mashie
[04:01:48] <billybob> depends on how busy he is, but I am sure he cant come up with somethign for them
[04:02:47] <billybob> here is one system he made a couple of years ago
[04:02:48] <billybob> http://www.mashie.org/casemods/udat1.html
[04:03:07] <billybob> keep in mind, that box has a motherboard etc in it, and ran Win2k3
[04:03:42] <billybob> so basically a 1TB storage box, with full computer in 1 cubic foot
[04:03:53] <jmcp> neat
[04:04:34] <billybob> me, I dont need anythign that small
[04:04:55] <billybob> probably what I am goign to make wil be twice the width, and 1.5x the depth
[04:05:07] <billybob> just hdds and PSU
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[04:07:32] * billybob has to go through all the Solaris setup stuff again
[04:07:42] <billybob> I botched my install last night : /
[04:07:53] <billybob> Linux partition made thigns . . .ugly . ..
[04:09:08] <billybob> I could probably write a howto now from memory on the process of installign velocity drivers, and updating the system so one can access the internet from an internal network
[04:09:13] <jbk> http://www.flickr.com/photos/davest/1570595741/in/pool-571298@N22/ <-- wouldn't mind that for a router/firewall
[04:09:51] <billybob> can anyone tell me why I should registers my copy of solaris ?
[04:10:19] <billybob> guess not.
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[04:12:35] <billybob> jmcp: gunzip -xx vel*gz| tar xf - <---- what were the gunzip params again ?
[04:12:52] * billybob has not really used the gunzip tool much
[04:13:18] <billybob> ty
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[04:47:58] <billybob> wow, that was wierd, the GUI network interface configuration tool was conflicting with somethign for some reason, and kept reseting bogus entries
[04:49:04] <natefoo> so i'm trying to hack session support in to pam_krb5, but this is my first time working with the ON source.  i followed the instructions in the readme but building the module itself fails because proto is missing from usr/src/tools.
[04:49:23] <natefoo> which i assume is generated.  figured i'd try nightly ./opensolaris.sh, but when i do that nothing happens.
[04:52:00] <jbk> you probably want 'nightly opensolaris.sh'
[04:52:08] <natefoo> that didn't work either.
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[04:52:19] <natefoo> although make in usr/src/tools made proto.
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[04:52:28] <natefoo> not sure if that'll be enough for what i'm building.
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[04:55:10] * bda waits for the shitstorm.
[04:55:56] <nrubsig> bda: shit or punk ? Or dung ?
[04:56:11] <bda> Punk? What?
[04:56:14] <nrubsig> erm
[04:56:18] <nrubsig> s/punk/puke/
[04:56:23] <bda> No, Ian's crosspost a few minutes ago.
[04:56:47] <Alpha_Cluster> "[indiana-discuss] Project Indiana and the OpenSolaris name"?
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[04:56:59] <bda> Aye.
[04:57:16] <Alpha_Cluster> btw hello all im new to Solaris
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[04:57:26] <bda> I think it seems resonable, but I am not particularly invested.
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[04:57:49] <nrubsig> bda: this stuff is only about naming, right ?
[04:58:01] <bda> Aye.
[04:58:46] <nrubsig> my god
[04:58:58] <Alpha_Cluster> wow sounds like good ideas to me
[04:59:29] <jbk> i think people are worrying over nothing..
[04:59:53] <Alpha_Cluster> isnt that normally the case when dealing with open source stuff?
[04:59:54] <jbk> i mean, for the most part, today most people associate sxce w/ opensolaris, and understand about the other distributions
[05:00:22] <jbk> and indiana really doesn't change anything that was already being planned prior to it's existance
[05:00:27] <Alpha_Cluster> i think isnt it mostly about the new people that dont bother to spend time learing about what it is?
[05:01:06] <jbk> well the argument is that there really needs to be something called 'opensolaris' that can be downloaded and run
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[05:01:28] <jbk> as well as be easily redistributed (which is really the biggest change w/ sxce -- the non-redistributable parts are removed)
[05:01:44] <jbk> so you can install over the internet, etc.
[05:01:51] <Alpha_Cluster> yep that makes since
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[05:03:27] <Alpha_Cluster> ok so now i will ask the question i came here do. Will Indiana alievate my current confusion with packages in Solaris?
[05:03:38] <jbk> what confusion do you have with packages?
[05:03:57] <Alpha_Cluster> im confused as to where i get them and how to install them sorry i come from apt-get land >.<
[05:04:06] <postwait> Got Leopard, got the ZFS RW beta and I'm kernel panicking like a pro now :-D
[05:04:18] <nrubsig> Alpha_Cluster: do you know about $ pkg-get # ?
[05:04:25] <Alpha_Cluster> i saw that
[05:04:36] <Alpha_Cluster> but doesnt that add a bunch of deps that are already installed?
[05:04:47] <nrubsig> Alpha_Cluster: http://www.blastwave.org/howto.html
[05:04:56] <nrubsig> depends
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[05:05:05] <nrubsig> it works for mpst stuff
[05:05:12] <nrubsig> s/mpst/most/
[05:05:32] <Alpha_Cluster> ok
[05:05:41] <Alpha_Cluster> thanks
[05:06:50] <nrubsig> Alpha_Cluster: if you're uncertain use PATH=/usr/xpg6/bin:/usr/xpg4/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/sbin:/ust/sfw/bin:/opt/csw/bin
[05:07:17] <nrubsig> that gives you full SuS+POSIX conformance and all the tools from SFW+Blastwave
[05:07:35] <Alpha_Cluster> ah ok
[05:07:47] <jbk> that is one area that i think will improve... right now there's no 'official' repository of packages beyond what comes on the dvd -- bastwave is one option, others also build their own... one nice thing with the new package prototype is it should (if i understand it correctly) allow you to point at any combination of 'places' (or rather groups doing packaging) for getting stuff
[05:07:58] <Alpha_Cluster> where is the default path stored for root?
[05:08:03] <nrubsig> uhm
[05:08:16] <nrubsig> Alpha_Cluster: use root's ~/.profile
[05:08:22] <nrubsig> or /etc/profile
[05:08:29] <Alpha_Cluster> ah ok
[05:08:30] <Alpha_Cluster> thanks
[05:08:39] <Alpha_Cluster> for some reason i was trying /etc/.profile
[05:08:40] <jbk> if you want to get daring, usermod -s /usr/bin/ksh93 root :)
[05:08:44] <natefoo> (technically it's in /etc/default/login, but it's best not to change that).
[05:08:55] <Alpha_Cluster> i use zsh
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[05:17:12] <comay> nrubsig, i'm here
[05:17:25] <comay> what's up?
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[05:29:26] <g4lt-sb100> didn't PSARC kill /usr/gnu the last time it came up?
[05:30:27] <e^ipi> evidently not
[05:30:29] <jbk> i thought that was going to be where the gnu utilities could go w/o the g prefix (i.e. /usr/bin/gsed & /usr/gnu/bin/sed are the same file or such)
[05:31:36] <g4lt-sb100> jbk yeah, I agree with the need, but my thing is that if it was shot down, it shouldn't be implimented
[05:31:48] <g4lt-sb100> in my inbox from caiman-discuss
[05:31:51] <g4lt-sb100> Author: "Dave Miner <dave.miner at sun dot com>"
[05:31:51] <g4lt-sb100> Repository: /hg/caiman/slim_prototype
[05:31:51] <g4lt-sb100> Latest revision: 28352b1966f755f7939acfdafe23947762c44442
[05:31:51] <g4lt-sb100> Total changesets: 1
[05:31:51] <g4lt-sb100> Log message:
[05:31:51] <g4lt-sb100> Move /usr/gnu/bin to front of path, add /sbin
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[05:33:24] <e^ipi> I don't suppose anyone knows in here if the openvms hobbyist CD set is available for download?
[05:33:31] <e^ipi> I have a license, just no media
[05:33:41] <Tempt> Good afternoon, all.
[05:33:52] <Tempt> e^ipi: ooh, didja just get an Alpha?
[05:33:53] <e^ipi> hey tempt
[05:34:09] <jbk> g4lt-sb100: does the diffs actualyl show where that's being set?
[05:34:14] <e^ipi> no, i was going to use simh...
[05:34:28] <Tempt> pooh
[05:34:33] <Tempt> Get a real alpha
[05:34:42] <theRealBallchalk> anymore CDE in ON75?
[05:34:45] <Tempt> They're sweet machines, they'll certainly give your SPARC hosts a bit of a run
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[05:37:36] <jbk> yeah, especially those multias :)
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[05:38:14] <Tempt> haha
[05:38:20] <Tempt> I had a Multia once
[05:38:25] <Tempt> It exploded.
[05:38:29] <jbk> if the i/o wasn't so abysmal
[05:38:34] <jbk> it might have been neat
[05:38:44] <jbk> but my god
[05:38:54] <Tempt> I went from a Multia workstation to a DS10
[05:39:00] <Tempt> talk about a performance upgrade!
[05:39:07] <jbk> you'd think the i/o interconnect was running at 1mhz
[05:39:23] <Tempt> I/O over RS-232C :-)
[05:39:37] <jbk> that's certaintly what it felt like
[05:39:43] <jbk> almost as bad as hp's G boxes
[05:40:22] <jbk> those things were so horrid
[05:40:40] <jbk> it was faster to physically move the box + attached disk array than to try to send the data over the network
[05:40:47] <jbk> (we're talking maybe 10-20gb)
[05:40:53] <e^ipi> probably better to ask this here actually
[05:41:06] <e^ipi> does VMS run on any ia64 kit, or just integrity?
[05:41:18] <e^ipi> i'm borrowing an itanium for a while, it might be fun to mess with
[05:41:22] <Tempt> VMS runs on VAX, Alpha and Itanium
[05:41:57] <e^ipi> HP didn't key it to their hardware
[05:41:58] <Tempt> e^ipi: Did you check your PMs?
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[05:42:45] <e^ipi> yeah, did you get my replies?
[05:42:50] <Tempt> no
[05:42:55] <Tempt> Are you reg'd with nickserv? :-)
[05:43:00] <e^ipi> oh, that'd do it
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[05:50:27] <mikea> Anyone use gnome with a large amount of memory?
[05:50:40] <e^ipi> you'd have to, wouldn't you...
[05:51:07] <mikea> The system monitor tool incorrectly reports my memory being 80% used.. :(
[05:51:45] <Tempt> haha
[05:51:49] <Tempt> That's GNOME eating all your RAM
[05:51:53] <Tempt> Buy an E25K
[05:52:05] <mikea> I doubt gnome is using 6GB of ram
[05:52:13] <mikea> plus, prstat and top say otherwise.
[05:52:37] <g4lt-sb100> well, it IS GNOME.  the only worse memory eater is firefox
[05:52:48] <Tempt> s/firefox/oracle/
[05:52:57] <mikea> s/gnome/enlightenment
[05:53:06] <Tempt> Dude
[05:53:09] <Alpha_Cluster> oh come on give KDE credit where credit is due
[05:53:13] <Tempt> Enlightenment is considered lightweight these days
[05:53:23] <Alpha_Cluster> it is lightweight
[05:53:46] <mikea> Lets all agree that most desktop environments suck a lot of ram
[05:54:03] <Alpha_Cluster> what about twm?
[05:54:04] <mikea> but gnome is definitely not using all of my ram. The system monitor is telling lies :(
[05:54:13] <g4lt-sb100> s/a lot of ram//
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[05:55:04] <mikea> I just wondered if anyone here had seen it.. I googled a bit and didn't find anything obvious
[05:55:25] <Alpha_Cluster> did you check out gnomes bugzilla?
[05:56:10] <g4lt-sb100> we must hang gman from a spanning tree as a warning to others
[05:56:16] <Tempt> I've had the GNOME stock ticker applet eat 4Gb of RAM before
[05:56:30] <Tempt> Actually, it does that all the time, along with eating CPU like a mofo
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[05:56:36] <Tempt> crosscalls all over the shop
[05:56:39] <delewis> Gnome isn't *that* bad memory-wise. I've run 20-30 Sun Rays off 2GB of memory. The problem lies with Xsun (if you're using SPARC), Firefox, and/or Thunderbird.
[05:56:45] <Tempt> and it tries to fire up more often than the scheduler quantum
[05:56:52] <Alpha_Cluster> Tempt: that just proves that stocks are teh root of evil
[05:57:06] <delewis> 20-30 Sun Rays without any paging, mind you.
[05:57:07] <dlg> Alpha_Cluster: or gnome developers are monkeys
[05:57:16] <delewis> dlg: orangutans. :-)
[05:57:18] <Alpha_Cluster> wouldnt be surprised
[05:57:33] <Alpha_Cluster> remember meguel named his new project mono
[05:57:40] <Tempt> I believe Brian Cantrill prefered the terms "ape", "stupid" and "braindead"
[05:57:53] <jbk> did the bug ever get fixed where it kept needlessly allocating some sort of context from the X server then releasing it?
[05:58:06] <delewis> jbk: yes, a long time ago.
[05:58:14] <delewis> it was 3 or 4 lines that just needed to be removed.
[05:58:21] <g4lt-sb100> right it doesn't release it anymore
[05:58:24] <jbk> do different bug then? :)
[05:58:26] <jbk> err so
[05:58:36] <delewis> this would've been 2003 or 2004 when FCS was "close" to shipping.
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[05:59:07] <Alpha_Cluster> g4lt-sb100: what DE do you use?
[06:00:36] <g4lt-sb100> jds.  yes, it's sturgeon-compliant
[06:02:50] <mikea> The JDS as of sxce 74 isn't half bad
[06:03:14] <Alpha_Cluster> im liking it in sxce 75
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[06:03:47] <Alpha_Cluster> i just dont care for the missing icons
[06:04:16] <mikea> I don't see anything about wonky memory readings in the gnome bugzilla. I didn't have a problem with 2GB of memory.. it only started happening when I added 4gb more.
[06:04:25] <mikea> I wonder if there's some buffer thats overflowing someplace
[06:06:46] <g4lt-sb100> I don't see anything about meory leaks in firefox bugzilla either, but you know damn well it leaks like a sieve
[06:07:13] <Alpha_Cluster> supposedly they are guna start fixing them
[06:07:23] <g4lt-sb100> yeeeeah riiiiiight
[06:08:07] <Alpha_Cluster> its ok im guessing when firefox is good memory wise so will a nice media player
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[06:12:59] <mikea> It's not actually leaking ram, it's just misreporting the amount of memory used.
[06:12:59] <mikea> just kind of irritating ;)
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[06:14:18] <e^ipi> they might start fixing them not that we gave the gift of dtrace
[06:14:21] <e^ipi> but i doubt it
[06:14:45] <Tempt> I heard a very interesting anti-dtrace argument the other day
[06:14:59] <Tempt> it basically argued that dtrace gave people too much snooping into proprietary code
[06:15:14] <Tempt> thus exposing the ugliness that should be a vendor's little secret
[06:16:26] <delewis> I'm sure our internal applications are fairly ugly, but they still do the job.
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[06:34:02] <nrubsig> groan
[06:34:33] <jmcp> Tempt: have you ever heard bmc's response to people who demand that DTrace be disabled for their application?
[06:36:21] <nrubsig> jmcp: could you please send my nickname here (chatclient test, just missed comay because I had the BEEP turned off)
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[06:37:21] <Tempt> jmcp: Do share
[06:37:57] <jmcp> Tempt: it's not exactly fit for polite company
[06:38:37] * delewis imagines some of those requests have come from Oracle
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[06:38:41] <jmcp> :-)
[06:39:11] <jmcp> Tempt: I think it's fair to say that it starts out with something close to "no no way get f'd f off..." and then gets less polite
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[06:40:20] <delewis> it's probably fair to say that those people might've made the same objections when debuggers came about.
[06:40:21] <Tempt> excellent
[06:40:27] <Tempt> There's video material
[06:40:30] <delewis> "oh noes, they can see our codes"
[06:41:01] <jmcp> nrubsig: beep!
[06:41:12] <nrubsig> still no sound ;-(
[06:41:13] <nrubsig> mom
[06:41:27] <delewis> Tempt: I take it you didn't win the p630?
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[06:41:44] <Tempt> delewis: No, I stopped watching when it went over $US1200
[06:41:45] <axisys> how do I unlock a file using `ci'. I am root and it is locked by a user
[06:41:46] <delewis> (last time I checked -- about 4 hours before the auction ended, it was up to $750)
[06:41:48] <jmcp> nrubsig: unmute your volume control
[06:41:54] <libkeiser> heh. the one that went for $1030 on monday?
[06:41:59] <Tempt> err
[06:42:00] <delewis> Tempt: told you it would be a battle. :-)
[06:42:03] <delewis> libkeiser: the one and only.
[06:42:04] <Tempt> It was at 1200 when I last looked
[06:42:08] <Tempt> perhaps there was a retraction
[06:42:28] <Tempt> anyway, looks like my employer will be purchasing a 510Q or two for model
[06:42:31] <Tempt> so I'm happy
[06:42:31] <nrubsig> test
[06:42:36] <Tempt> nrubsig: fail
[06:42:59] <nrubsig> test2
[06:43:03] <nrubsig> grumpf
[06:43:04] <Tempt> nrubsig: fail2
[06:43:15] <nrubsig> I-am-dumb
[06:43:17] * delewis wonders what would happen if he walked over to the development lab next door and stole a system or two...
[06:43:32] <delewis> I think we've got a few V490s, E6900s, and E4900s over there.
[06:43:58] <delewis> security guard is usually asleep downstairs.
[06:43:59] <Tempt> you could send me the v490s
[06:44:17] <delewis> after you send me $30k. :-)
[06:44:49] <axisys> got it.. rcs -u
[06:44:52] <nrubsig> delewis: please steal the machines and sell them here. That way you get fired and I get your job! =:-)
[06:45:05] <Tempt> 30k for a 490
[06:45:08] <Tempt> dreamin'
[06:45:10] <Tempt> I can buy a new one for less
[06:45:23] <delewis> hmm, I'm curious what we're paying for them.
[06:45:26] * delewis looks in the PO system
[06:45:57] <Tempt> I just want the new version of SSGD to be released soon
[06:46:06] <Tempt> November 19th
[06:46:09] <Tempt> Not soon enough.
[06:46:56] <comay> nrubsig: can you send me your latest copies via email of your prompt settings for bash, ksh, else?
[06:47:09] <comay> the ones that conform to the PSARC case that was filed
[06:47:12] <nrubsig> comay: Hi!
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[06:47:23] <nrubsig> comay: erm
[06:47:24] <comay> i need to run though now
[06:47:32] <nrubsig> comay: that machine is down right now
[06:47:34] <comay> still hoping to include those changes
[06:47:43] <nrubsig> comay: I can't get the stuff until tomorrow
[06:47:44] <comay> don't you remember that in your sleep? :-)
[06:47:58] <comay> well, send them along as soon as you can
[06:48:08] <comay> now, i really need to run
[06:48:08] <nrubsig> comay: and the ksh93 thing was in the email I send to one of the lists recently
[06:48:15] <nrubsig> wait
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[06:48:18] <nrubsig> please
[06:48:21] <nrubsig> groan
[06:48:26] <nrubsig> F*CK!
[06:48:46] <nrubsig> <censored><censored><censored><censored>!!!<censored><censored>!! F*CK <censored> <censored> <censored>
[06:49:30] <Dewi> now we're nested 9 levels deep in censorship.
[06:49:41] <Dewi> somebody close those tags!
[06:49:52] <jmcp> </censored></censored></censored></censored></censored></censored></censored></censored>
[06:49:56] <Dewi> thx
[06:49:57] * jmcp obliges
[06:50:14] <jmcp> nowurries
[06:50:16] <tsp> heh
[06:50:18] <Dewi> </censored>
[06:50:23] <Dewi> (you forgot one)
[06:50:44] <libkeiser> </censored>
[06:50:48] <jmcp> damn
[06:50:49] <libkeiser> yay now we have a parse error
[06:51:01] <auto359> want to hear something to make you swear ... aud$6000 to send my cat with us to london!
[06:51:21] <Dewi> auto359: send it by post then
[06:51:32] <auto359> haha, might scan/email him
[06:51:53] <Tempt> can anyone remember if the grover takes buffered or unbuffered memory?
[06:52:00] <Tempt> auto359: skin it.
[06:52:03] <Tempt> auto359: fedex it
[06:52:14] <auto359> charming ... no
[06:52:21] <Tempt> or rehome the cat
[06:52:25] <Tempt> and get a new one when you get there
[06:52:38] <auto359> i actually like him, option b. perhaps, is my kid's cat ...
[06:52:56] <Tempt> rehome the kid
[06:52:59] <Tempt> and get a new one when you get there
[06:53:07] <auto359> haha, nah, like her too, more than the cat
[06:53:31] <auto359> stupid quarantine costs ...
[06:53:36] <Tempt> You know
[06:53:50] <Tempt> you've got all the quarantine time to fine a matching cat
[06:53:56] <Tempt> Can't be too hard to find one that looks the same
[06:54:45] <auto359> haha, sneaky! my girl is smart, she'd get suss and ask me to dna profile him
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[07:05:23] <stev7en> hello everyone
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[07:05:57] <jmcp> hello
[07:07:08] <stev7en> does anyone know if we will be able to install KDE 4 and Dolphin file manager when OpenSolaris is available?
[07:07:39] <Tempt> OpenSolaris IS available.
[07:07:48] <Tempt> So get over to opensolaris.org and download SXCE today.
[07:08:14] <stev7en> I thought the Indiana Project was still being worked on
[07:08:27] * timeless takes a moment to smile
[07:08:45] <Tempt> There's more to OpenSolaris than Indiana. That's just a project.
[07:08:58] <Tempt> You can get in and start enjoying OpenSolaris right now.
[07:09:42] <stev7en> ok didn't know that, I saw Ian Murdocks list of software in Indiana included Gnome
[07:10:04] <stev7en> is it ok to install KDE & Dolphin?
[07:11:14] <Tempt> If you want to
[07:11:21] <Tempt> I'm not sure what "Dolphin" is though.
[07:11:24] <stev7en> I only have 3 years linux experience currently using Fedora 7 after using Debian 4 so I hope that helps using OpenSolaris
[07:11:39] <stev7en> Dolphin is the new file manager in KDE 4
[07:11:50] <stev7en> replaces Konqueror
[07:12:05] <jmcp> stev7en: yes it's ok to install KDE - we'll still talk to you afterwards
[07:12:12] <stev7en> thanks
[07:12:38] <stev7en> coming originally from XP I feel more at home with KDE than Gnome
[07:12:39] <jmcp> stev7en: handy resources for you:: www.opensolaris.org/os/community/immigrants docs.sun.com sun.com/bigadmin, #opensolaris
[07:13:16] <stev7en> thanks
[07:13:31] <e^ipi> kde will install on any of the opensolaris distros just fine
[07:13:34] <jmcp> you're welcome
[07:13:41] <jmcp> stev7en: just remember to ask questions
[07:13:44] <e^ipi> stefan's finishing up getting it to work well with sun studio
[07:13:57] <e^ipi> as for indiana, it'll be an install time option, evidently
[07:14:06] <stev7en> is the file called SXCE
[07:14:37] <jmcp> SXCE is Solaris Express, Community Edition
[07:14:44] <e^ipi> they (the indiana execs.) got tired of fighting with us and caved... which is cool, now everyone's happy
[07:14:47] <jmcp> SXDE is Solaris Express, Developer Edition
[07:15:08] <stev7en> thats the one Sun is offering to post is it?
[07:15:25] <jmcp> http://whacked.net/2005/06/21/confused-so-was-i/
[07:15:32] <stev7en> thanks jmcp
[07:15:40] <jmcp> read the whacked.net blog entry - it explains the differences really well
[07:15:47] <stev7en> ok
[07:15:48] <stev7en> thanks
[07:16:41] <stev7en> are you enjoying OpenSolaris more than Linux
[07:17:03] <e^ipi> I don't use linux
[07:17:10] <stev7en> k
[07:20:07] <jmcp> stev7en: I haven't used linux in years
[07:20:14] <stev7en> ok
[07:20:17] <jmcp> stopped using linux well before I joined Sun
[07:20:22] <jmcp> so yes, I'm biased :)
[07:20:25] <Tempt> I can't see a reason to use Linux for anything other than embedded systems now
[07:20:32] <Tempt> even then, QNX is pretty good.
[07:20:37] <dlg> i cant see a point in using linux on embedded systems
[07:20:45] <stev7en> I only have 3 years Linux experience so I'm still a basic leaner
[07:20:50] <Tempt> dlg: cheap, hardware support...
[07:20:55] <stev7en> learner sorry
[07:21:10] <dlg> meh
[07:21:25] <e^ipi> I used it for about 8 years before migrating to solaris
[07:21:30] <jmcp> "open to new concepts" is more important to me
[07:21:33] <stev7en> ok
[07:21:49] <stev7en> I'm interested in the Solaris file system
[07:21:58] <e^ipi> which one?
[07:22:15] <Tempt> dlg: BSD is a better choice, of course ;)
[07:22:16] <jmcp> zfs? it requires you to ditch what you think you know about best practices for managing storage
[07:23:09] <stev7en> ZFS
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[07:23:34] <stev7en> ok
[07:23:46] <jmcp> opensolaris.org/os/community/zfs
[07:24:03] <jmcp> there's a source code tour, an explanation of how it all works, blog links and links to screencast demos
[07:24:31] <Tempt> Be warned
[07:24:33] <Tempt> once you use ZFS
[07:24:43] <Tempt> other solutions will seem annoying and pitiful.
[07:24:52] <Tempt> you may never be able to enjoy linux again.
[07:25:00] <dlg> again?
[07:25:04] <stev7en> thanks for that
[07:25:05] * dlg giggle
[07:25:18] <Tempt> dlg: Well, he obviously enjoys it if he's put up with it for three years.
[07:25:45] <dlg> i dunno
[07:25:51] <libkeiser> now if only jonathan and dave would drop the swords and remove the cloud hanging over zfs...
[07:26:27] <Tempt> oh, it'll get cleared up
[07:26:35] <Tempt> just need to poke at each other for a bit more first
[07:26:40] <jmcp> libkeiser: did you read through the counter-claims? it scary
[07:26:42] <stev7en> I joined a local computer club that teaches M $ 2 nights a months and Linux 1 night
[07:26:55] <libkeiser> jmcp: been meaning to read that, but no not yet
[07:27:02] <jmcp> it's worthwhile
[07:27:21] <stev7en> they started with Mandrake but members have now drifted off on various distros
[07:27:33] <Tempt> slackware
[07:27:47] <jmcp> libkeiser: there's an allegation in the counterclaim that NetApp lied to the USPTO and so their claimed patents are invalid
[07:27:58] * timeless likes qnx
[07:28:12] <jmcp> at which point I go for the asbestos underwear ... and popcorn
[07:28:15] <stev7en> haven't tried slack, spent time with Debian and liked it
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[07:29:16] <jmcp> Tempt: those patches I mentioned are now on external sunsolve
[07:29:31] <Tempt> jmcp: Oh, nice, nice.
[07:29:42] <Tempt> jmcp: I won't be installing them, but good to know they exist ;-)
[07:30:07] <Tempt> jmcp: Please send fancy multipathable SAS hardware here ;-)
[07:30:25] <dlg> jmcp: some here too please
[07:30:32] <Tempt> here first
[07:30:43] <jmcp> muahahahaha
[07:31:02] <jmcp> Tempt: dlg is physically closer to where I live, so he might get to watchen das blinkenlights earlier than you :)
[07:31:28] * Tempt grumbles
[07:31:49] <jmcp> Tempt: if your customers wants mpxio and st2530, these are the patches they'll want
[07:32:20] <Tempt> jmcp: My customers tend to like FC
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[07:32:28] <Tempt> jmcp: But I guess one never knows when it might pop up
[07:32:47] <jmcp> I'm sure there'll be somebody who wants to be ahead of the curve
[07:32:50] * jmcp chuckles
[07:32:57] <stev7en> for a person planning to move all their work to linux is OpenSolaris a satisfactory choice as a desktop operating system?
[07:33:16] <Tempt> Errr
[07:33:25] <Tempt> Why move to OpenSolaris if you have a Linux agenda?
[07:33:42] <Tempt> If you're planning in burying yourself in penguins, you should probably keep it consistant
[07:34:46] <tsp> Where can I get more info on the status of the netapp stuff?
[07:34:59] * tsp isn't sure what blogs will have continuous updates
[07:35:12] <stev7en> I have been comparing various LInux distros and read about opensolaris and am very interested in learning about this with the view to using it on a daily basis
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[07:35:49] <jmcp> tsp: blogs.sun.com/dillon and blogs.sun.com/jonathan
[07:35:52] <jmcp> or El Reg
[07:36:00] <jmcp> tsp: Mike Dillon is Sun's General Counsel
[07:36:07] * Tempt votes for El REg
[07:36:08] <jmcp> they'll be as up to date as anywhere
[07:36:25] <jmcp> tsp: you'll have to engage your own anti-spin device, of course
[07:36:36] <Tempt> hmm
[07:36:49] <Tempt> A modified RSS reader with an automatic anti-spin device
[07:36:51] <e^ipi> stev7en: there's very little reason to move your work to linux
[07:36:53] <Tempt> I shall call it ... gyroscope
[07:37:04] <Tempt> e^ipi: Bollocks
[07:37:13] <stev7en> oh?
[07:37:14] <Tempt> e^ipi: He's ensuring his continued employment by choosing an unreliable platform
[07:37:25] <Tempt> e^ipi: Just like Windows admins are always in business.
[07:37:28] <e^ipi> true enough
[07:37:36] <Tempt> e^ipi: Easy to justify your job when you're always running around fixing shit.
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[07:38:29] <Tempt> If he went on a mission replacing his Dell boxes with Hurons and Silverstones and moving everything to Solaris, he'd spend far too much time relaxing. Doesn't look as busy.
[07:38:44] <stev7en> thanks for your comments
[07:40:18] <Tempt> anyway, real life calls
[07:41:09] <e^ipi> windows -> linux seems like a lateral move... not an upgrade
[07:41:48] <libkeiser> if anything it's a nightmare since there's nothing comparable to active directory as far as distributed systems management goes
[07:42:18] <stev7en> bye
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[07:45:18] <bda> Linux to Solaris is not as easy a migration as you guys try to make it out to be. :)
[07:45:30] <bda> At least not when you have an existing complex infrastructure.
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[07:57:28] <dlg> how can i see what a process is waiting on?
[07:57:47] <jmcp> pstack, then dive into the kernel
[07:58:07] <jmcp> echo "0t(pid)::pid2proc|::print proc_t p_tlist|::walk thread|::findstack -v" |mdb -k
[07:58:10] <jmcp> or something
[07:58:26] <dlg> did you type that off the top of your head?
[07:58:47] <jmcp> yes
[07:59:08] <dlg> woah
[07:59:19] <jmcp> a few days of practice :)
[07:59:46] <jteo> i gotta get me that book.
[08:00:13] <dlg> jmcp comes in paperback?
[08:01:04] <jmcp> yeah it does, I discovered
[08:01:12] <jmcp> when I got my copy last year it was hb only
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[08:01:44] <edwardocallaghan> ping
[08:03:04] <edwardocallaghan> hello ?
[08:03:59] <edwardocallaghan> dclarke:ping
[08:04:27] <bda> Hm, I need new bookshelves. Pretty sure jmcp wouldn't fit. :\
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[08:06:00] <edwardocallaghan> ping
[08:06:18] <jmcp> bda: yeah, I'm too fat :(
[08:06:55] <bda> I just have too many books. ;)
[08:10:11] <edwardocallaghan> Hi, I am trying to complie maplyer on a OpenSolaris box build 70b and the ./Configure does not find gcc so I give it --cc=/usr/sfw/bin/gcc and Configure ends but gmake will not make as complains about config.h and version.h
[08:11:18] <edwardocallaghan> any ideas guys ?
[08:11:45] <edwardocallaghan> I'm sure Dennis would know but I think he is asleep :(
[08:12:26] <libkeiser> it's 0310 here in EST, so probably
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[08:16:26] <fuzzy> what's the easiest way to install tcpdump to a opensolaris box?
[08:16:59] <jmcp> what does tcpdump do?
[08:17:05] <jmcp> and how is it different to /usr/sbin/snoop ?
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[08:17:22] <WickedWorking> morning
[08:17:55] <libkeiser> did they fix libpcap so it works again on solaris?  i haven't seen it dtrt in years
[08:18:29] <bda> I use it (via pkgsrc) just fine.
[08:19:09] <fuzzy> maybe snoop will handle what i want
[08:20:47] <edwardocallaghan> WickedWorking:Do you have maplyer complied for Solaris ?
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[08:24:44] <WickedWorking> mplayer? I had, yes, then I reinstalled cause I bricked my box
[08:25:22] <fuzzy> wow snoop is cool
[08:25:38] <fuzzy> but how do you get it to show the actual data of the packet and not just every detail of the header?
[08:25:53] <delewis> fuzzy: -v
[08:26:11] <palowoda> Wireshark is the frosting.
[08:26:25] <WickedWorking> frosting being good or bad? I am not much for cold
[08:26:36] <jmcp> fuzzy: dump the data to a file, and play it back using -i filename -v
[08:26:38] <palowoda> Very good.
[08:26:42] <WickedWorking> aha
[08:27:16] <fuzzy> do something like a snoop host 172.16.253.1 > file
[08:27:23] <fuzzy> then use it to read the file back in?
[08:27:49] <fuzzy> nm -o
[08:28:33] <palowoda> Wicked: Give it a try it's available from blastwave.
[08:28:55] <edwardocallaghan> WickedWorking:What did you pass to ./Configure ?
[08:29:04] <WickedWorking> edwardocallaghan: nada, I used SFE
[08:29:28] <fuzzy> now can i use something like wireshark on another computer to dissect this log file?
[08:29:49] <WickedWorking> fuzzy: ya
[08:29:50] <palowoda> Yes you can import both snoop and tcpdump with Wireshark.
[08:30:02] <edwardocallaghan> Thing is my sun box is off line so I have to take all the pkgs to it on usb pen
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[08:30:05] * fuzzy searchs for a wireshark os/x client
[08:30:10] <edwardocallaghan> what should i download ?
[08:30:28] <WickedWorking> palowoda: we use Wireshark at work, as a matter of fact, last week, when we had to investigate packet loss and all
[08:30:49] <WickedWorking> the putting the packets in sequence function is what safes my life some times
[08:31:06] <e^ipi> fuzzy: it's in macports, or fink
[08:31:07] <palowoda> Actaully Bart Smalders is working to get it integrated into Nevada.
[08:31:14] <e^ipi> whichever you prefer
[08:31:25] <fuzzy> http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/32465
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[08:43:15] <edwardocallaghan> what spec file do i need for mplayer ?
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[08:45:57] <nasser> indiana, where it is !
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[08:54:41] <fuzzy> If any of you are interested in opensolaris + xen + iscsi you might want to check out http://groups.google.com/group/open-iscsi/browse_thread/thread/c0ff41096d5afc9
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[08:58:49] <logic> morning all
[08:58:53] <nico> hi
[08:59:06] <BadKarma> morning
[08:59:23] <logic> fuzzy: hi fuzzy, i tried youre wiki(xen), but have a question, where did you get youre linux kernel from?
[08:59:32] <fuzzy> hehe
[08:59:39] <fuzzy> i pulled it from a running xen install
[08:59:39] <logic> fuzzy: :)
[08:59:56] <fuzzy> it's kinda the chicken and egg scenario
[09:00:07] <fuzzy> if you want i can post that kernel and initrd somewhere for you
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[09:00:19] <logic> fuzzy: that would be great :)
[09:00:22] <palowoda> Are we allowed to bitchslap anyone that asks for Indiana for every day it's late?
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[09:00:26] <fuzzy> np stby
[09:00:56] * quasi bitchslaps palowoda for even mentioning that POS
[09:01:13] <bda> Why is it a POS?
[09:01:16] <palowoda> By the way fuzzy that was a nice step by step on Xen you wrote up.
[09:01:26] <fuzzy> i need to clean it up
[09:01:42] <fuzzy> i've been really busy trying to debug this open-iscsi
[09:02:38] <fuzzy> and as a fyi
[09:02:51] <fuzzy> you can pull darn near the same thing to get fiesty and gutsy in place
[09:03:06] <fuzzy> i got gutsy to boot with gutsy's linux / initrd ( 2.6.22-14 )
[09:04:28] <quasi> bda: sorry, no time to get into that discussion again, but I'm not particularly happy for a linuxy infected opensol distro to now take over the opensolaris name
[09:04:43] <bda> quasi: Wahhhh.
[09:04:44] <Tempt> quasi++
[09:05:53] * quasi wanted to go bitchslap ian murdock after reading advocacy discuss this morning - "indiana will be released at _the_ opensolaris distro"
[09:05:55] <Tempt> Maybe I'll brew up a kernel module that detects GNU software and refuses to run it.
[09:06:02] <quasi> ;)
[09:06:03] <palowoda> Look at the bright side. Bugs logged against Indiana are not not the primary bug in bugster.
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[09:06:31] <quasi> palowoda: I'm sure that'll get changed when he shuts down sxce and sxde
[09:06:40] <Tempt> I see only one side to Indiana, and that's weening the weenies of weenieOS onto a more solid platform as a gateway to a real OS.
[09:07:03] <Tempt> and I doubt they'll shut SXCE, because the OpenSol community will dry up overnight
[09:07:06] <palowoda> quasi: Than the intenal bug team at Sun has the pleasure of importing bugs.
[09:07:17] *** Cyrille has joined #opensolaris
[09:07:26] <e^ipi> i'm still not sure why he insists on saying it's community run when contentious issues like the name defy the community's wishes outright
[09:07:35] *** tsoome has joined #opensolaris
[09:07:42] <quasi> Tempt: except the jump from indiana will be very, very large if it plays to their plans of running their own incompatible package system
[09:07:53] <Tempt> because if it has any connection to the word 'linux' it is obviously 'community-driven'
[09:08:15] <palowoda> I have an idea lets copyright bugs in Indiana that they have private email address and can't be copied into any other database.
[09:08:22] <Tempt> quasi: Yes, well, better Indiana than looooonix
[09:08:37] <quasi> sun has an odd definition of community
[09:08:42] <Tempt> I'm trying very fucking hard to find a bright side here, mate.
[09:08:59] <quasi> Tempt: I'm not sure you'll see much difference 6 months from now
[09:09:17] <Tempt> As long as they don't fuck with mainline Solaris, I don't really care too much.
[09:09:40] <Tempt> and since Sun don't want to break compatibility, it'll be a long time before they go there.
[09:09:51] <libkeiser> hopefully they never even try to go there
[09:09:52] <logic> yesterday i saw a screencast from glassfish , an install with "pkg" , for my understanding, is pkg part of the indiana project? or am i wrong?
[09:09:53] <Tempt> AIX 6 will be out in force by the time they manage to screw Solaris up.
[09:10:11] <palowoda> Good luck Tempt.
[09:10:26] <fuzzy> aix 6 is actually going to happen?
[09:10:31] <nrubsig> yes
[09:10:34] <libkeiser> uh, yes
[09:10:40] <fuzzy> woah
[09:10:55] <Tempt> Of course AIX 6 is going to happen
[09:11:06] <Tempt> You think IBM are going to exit the market any time soon?
[09:11:13] <fuzzy> no
[09:11:16] <mlh_> /usr/ucb/cc must die!
[09:11:25] <fuzzy> but i expected them to push towards linux with the rest of their push
[09:11:26] <e^ipi> ibm's not just going to roll up shop and say "well, that was a good run... ta ta!"
[09:11:29] <libkeiser> aside from what some loonix loonies may tell you, aix is not going away in the next 5 years
[09:11:30] <Tempt> naah
[09:11:39] <Tempt> IBM are busy rolling their linux deployments onto AIX
[09:11:45] <e^ipi> mlh_: remove /usr/ucb from your path. no problems
[09:11:51] <Tempt> The IBM strategy for their customers is Windows -> Linux -> AIX
[09:11:59] <mlh_> seriously there is so much wrong with solaris that they sure had better fuck with it.  Otherwise what's the point
[09:12:18] <Tempt>  mlh_: There's nothing really that wrong with Solaris.
[09:12:21] <fuzzy> too bad i don't have a machine that can run aix
[09:12:26] <libkeiser> with the optional alternative of Windows -> Linux -> z/VM+Linux
[09:12:28] <Tempt> at least not that is in scope of Indiana
[09:12:48] <bda> Tempt: So you don't think IPS is a good idea?
[09:12:56] <Tempt> IPS?
[09:13:01] <Tempt> Indiana Pooh Sticks?
[09:13:06] <Tempt> Indiana Pickle System?
[09:13:07] <mlh_> e^ipi: that was just an e.g. but you must be deliberately missing the point.
[09:13:14] <Tempt> Ian's Patchy Shit?
[09:13:15] <mlh_> why keep something that no-one uses
[09:13:17] <palowoda> Image Package System.
[09:13:18] * bda sighs.
[09:13:39] <palowoda> It's actually a good desgin so far.
[09:13:43] <Tempt> everyone can bitch and moan about sysv pkgs
[09:13:49] <bda> I have no problem with sysv pkgs.
[09:13:58] <Tempt> but they work, and there's not a dire need to change.
[09:14:04] <bda> I have a problem with upgrading being insane.
[09:14:09] <Tempt> they're easy to create, easy to install.
[09:14:19] <palowoda> IPS does import svr4 packages.
[09:14:31] <bda> Tempt: Maybe you should read up on what Indiana actually contains before talking so much shit about it. :)
[09:14:40] <bda> Or at least reserve a little bit of judgement.
[09:14:44] <fuzzy> now where is the fun in that
[09:14:45] <Tempt> I'd rather see more effort going into leadville improvements or something
[09:15:06] <bda> System management is pretty fucking important, and takes a lot of time in its current incarnation.
[09:15:20] <Tempt> Not compared to Red Hat.
[09:15:26] * bda sighs.
[09:15:31] <libkeiser> it does compared to aix
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[09:15:37] <bda> Oh, look. Something else to do. :)
[09:15:40] <e^ipi> it's important to funnel otherwise productive engineering efforts in to 'teh flashy'. sun has a lot of taxes to offset
[09:15:45] <palowoda> Tempt: You have to start doing some reading about IPS.
[09:15:54] <Tempt> Why?
[09:15:57] <bda> e^ipi: How many systems do you manage?
[09:16:04] <palowoda> Because AIX is going to use it.
[09:16:15] <Tempt> Riiiiight.
[09:16:51] <e^ipi> 9 or 10
[09:16:56] <Tempt> heh
[09:16:59] <Tempt> AIX 9
[09:17:01] <Tempt> that'd be ...
[09:17:03] <Tempt> 2012?
[09:17:18] <bda> e^ipi: GA?
[09:17:19] <Tempt> That gives me plenty of time to worry about it in 2009
[09:17:23] <tsp> can aix run on x86?
[09:17:28] <libkeiser> aix got packaging and patching right years ago. why the hell would they throw it all away and adopt something unseen and untested?
[09:17:28] <e^ipi> GA?
[09:17:29] <Tempt> tsp: Absolutely not.
[09:17:36] <bda> e^ipi: Solaris 10.
[09:17:46] <Tempt> AIX is the ideal lazy admin's UNIX.
[09:17:53] <Tempt> little work for good reward.
[09:18:02] <palowoda> AIX did at one time run on x86 but IBM decided to discontinue it for their customers.
[09:18:08] <tsp> what can it run on? I'm pretty sure it can't run on sparc
[09:18:15] <Tempt> tsp: POWER.
[09:19:00] <bda> Tempt: That's pretty fair. I "admin'd" a few AIX boxes for four years. They Just Worked.
[09:19:08] <libkeiser> also ran on s/390 at one point
[09:19:26] <bda> Much like our SCO 3.0 box. >_>
[09:19:37] <Tempt> eek.
[09:19:48] <Tempt> No fond memories of dealing with SCO products.
[09:19:56] <palowoda> bda: Are you serious?
[09:20:01] <Tempt> bloody Xenix, bloody OpenSewer, bloody....
[09:20:01] <bda> It was great.
[09:20:06] <e^ipi> the machines that aren't my personal boxen that i manage are actually all macs, and i'm scouting out a cheap solaris webhost
[09:20:21] <Tempt> e^ipi: Looking for a zone?
[09:20:26] <bda> Thing was 15 years old, had been transplanted through several different sets of hardware.
[09:20:27] <e^ipi> Tempt: yeah
[09:20:29] <bda> Shit. It had an IP stack. :)
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[09:20:44] <e^ipi> the uni. newspaper wants a website
[09:21:02] <Tempt> my employer's hosting arm is looking at doing zones RealSoonNow
[09:21:30] <palowoda> e^ipi: www.joyent.com
[09:21:39] <bda> Joyent is not cheap. :)
[09:21:42] <e^ipi> palowoda: yeah, no...
[09:21:46] <fuzzy> logic: palowoda: http://public.liquidbridge.net/index.php
[09:21:53] <fuzzy> that's where you'll find your kernel / initrd's
[09:21:54] <e^ipi> joyent's great and all, but they start at $45 monthly
[09:21:56] <palowoda> How cheap is cheap?
[09:22:05] <fuzzy> i sell xen guests for $20
[09:22:14] <fuzzy> (starting)
[09:22:27] <bda> palowoda: Compared to the vast majority of "hosting" companies? MediaTemple, Dreamhost, etc.
[09:22:34] <bda> Though those are all shared envs, not vms.
[09:23:05] <palowoda> So do solaris zones go for a premium these days?
[09:23:06] <Teln12100> fuzzy: what kind of cpu / ram resources / network bandwidth for $20 ?
[09:23:10] <logic> fuzzy: thx, starting the download :)
[09:23:19] * tsp is curious about vps/vm hosting - if you have a set amount of bandwidth, can't it be used up by, say, someone ddosing you?
[09:23:26] <bda> palowoda: Go check our their pricing structure. It isn't really geared for organizations not bringing in money.
[09:23:31] <bda> imo anyway.
[09:23:31] <fuzzy> http://www.liquidbridge.net/services.html
[09:23:56] * fuzzy makes a mental note to go taser the web dev so he finishes what he started
[09:24:30] <libkeiser> you need an excuse to tazer web developers?
[09:25:04] <Tempt> liquidbridge is a loooonix shop then
[09:25:11] <Teln12100> fuzzy: are you in Portland?
[09:25:14] <fuzzy> it's my linux shop thank you very much
[09:25:15] <fuzzy> and yes i am
[09:25:26] <fuzzy> and i'm working on moving to using opensolaris on the hosts
[09:25:33] <Tempt> well, that's good.
[09:25:34] <Tempt> Sell zones :)
[09:25:36] <fuzzy> with opensolaris zfs + iscsi targets into the guests
[09:25:53] <fuzzy> i'm happier with xen thank you very much
[09:26:04] <palowoda> fuzzy the competition is good for zones.
[09:26:11] <Teln12100> so disk i/o is not bound to the same physical disk as host? pushed to the network?
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[09:26:25] <fuzzy> i frankly don't know enough about them to be comfortable selling them yet
[09:26:42] <palowoda> But nobody wants the overhead of xVM.
[09:27:05] <libkeiser> yeah. there are very compelling performance reasons to investigate zones
[09:27:11] <palowoda> Sell all the BS you can. :)
[09:27:14] <fuzzy> Teln12100: it's more of elimating spof's with the ability to safely and cleanly migrate guests with zero downtime
[09:27:33] <palowoda> Your selling compute time.
[09:27:44] <billybob> 'overhead of xVM' . . .
[09:27:45] <palowoda> Bandwidth.
[09:28:06] <libkeiser> billybob: ?
[09:28:23] <fuzzy> to have 2x gbE's in the backend
[09:28:36] <billybob> oh dont know man, maybe I am missing something aboutthe xVM implementation, but VMs are run to consolidate machines into one
[09:28:47] <billybob> for improved processing
[09:28:54] <trochej> coffee
[09:28:56] <Teln12100> fuzzy: on the Bronze plane that 1 CPU is that shared with other Vms or dedicated for use or does it come out of a pool on the host?
[09:29:07] <libkeiser> billybob: no. they are meant to reduce system costs and resource consumption. they do not improve performance
[09:29:24] <libkeiser> the very nature of the beast stipulates that
[09:29:27] <billybob> I never said anythig about performance
[09:29:55] <fuzzy> it's shared with 5 others
[09:29:56] <palowoda> Why would customers worry about virtual performance they get?
[09:29:57] <fuzzy> 4 others
[09:30:01] <fuzzy> on 1 core
[09:30:04] <fuzzy> so 5 guests per core
[09:30:19] <libkeiser> then what did you mean by overhead?
[09:30:28] <libkeiser> obviously the memory footprint of a vm far exceeds that of a zone
[09:30:39] <libkeiser> likewise for cpu utilization
[09:30:45] <palowoda> More than just memory.
[09:30:47] <libkeiser> disk usage, ...
[09:31:31] <Teln12100> does xen split cpu by guaranteeing certain amount and allowing burst or is it a fixed division?
[09:31:45] <fuzzy> i can lock guests to core(s)
[09:32:16] <fuzzy> but i can't limit to usage to a certain chunk
[09:32:23] <billybob> ask VMWare why their software does so well
[09:32:38] <palowoda> Just because you can lock a guest to a core doesn't really mean much to the end results.
[09:32:43] <Teln12100> so its possible for 1 of the 5 to hog up all of that core?
[09:32:54] <fuzzy> i have a script that polls xentop
[09:32:55] <libkeiser> their software does so well because people haven't been given a middle ground until zones were invented
[09:33:34] <fuzzy> that watches guest cpu usages
[09:33:43] <billybob> well I cannot say I cimpletely agree with that 100%
[09:34:03] <billybob> completely*
[09:34:33] <libkeiser> virtualization is useful.  but it has significant inherent limitations. the supervisor by the very nature of the model cannot make most of the optimizations that a single system image kernel can
[09:34:56] <billybob> but if a single system that handles all that fails ?
[09:35:16] <fuzzy> i'm working with a non profit to generate some serious income that i'm going to use to hire xen devs to add features that i want
[09:35:31] <billybob> granted, I suspect zones could have failovers as well
[09:35:34] <fuzzy> one of them is limiting cpu usage per core
[09:35:54] <libkeiser> sunplex
[09:36:16] <tsoome> billybob, if supervisor fails, all virtual machines will fail as well;)
[09:36:29] <billybob> failovers . . .iSCSI . . .
[09:36:33] <fuzzy> that's why you limit the supervisor to do as little as possible
[09:37:28] <billybob> I really do not understand zones all that well, so perhaps when I become enlightened I will see what you all are talking about
[09:37:29] <billybob> however
[09:37:32] <tsoome> anyhow, both models have their pro's and cons. vmware/xen may give more flexibility in OS choice, but its more resource hungry.
[09:37:39] <billybob> will zones run XP in HVM ?
[09:37:48] <libkeiser> no
[09:37:53] <libkeiser> tsoome: agreed
[09:37:55] <billybob> well not specifically XP, but lets just say Windows
[09:37:59] <fuzzy> i don't think xen can even run in a zone
[09:37:59] <Teln12100> I was at linux fest where Ross Chevalier (of Novell) spoke about Xen and said something about scaling across Blades. Do you have any experience with that Fuzzy?
[09:38:16] <fuzzy> in what reguard?
[09:38:21] <palowoda> Paravirtualization is more efficient with cpu usage.
[09:38:45] <Teln12100> in terms of having a single virtual machine spread across several blades
[09:38:46] <tsoome> not only, also memory/disk
[09:39:16] <fuzzy> your asking about SSI
[09:39:21] <fuzzy> single system image
[09:39:29] <libkeiser> still can't alleviate the VMM pressures caused by all those duplicate segments
[09:39:31] <fuzzy> there's a linux project that's dedicated to that
[09:39:50] <libkeiser> or there's dragonflybsd if you're looking really far out
[09:40:05] <fuzzy> yes there is that too
[09:40:18] <fuzzy> but i don't know what the status of dragonfly is these days
[09:41:08] <fuzzy> http://www.linuxvirtualserver.org/
[09:41:15] <Teln12100> thanks
[09:41:37] <fuzzy> but see i'm one that leans more the other way
[09:41:43] <billybob> Now, containers, if my understanding of thsoe is correct, containers *could* handle a lot of what some people might use a VM for, but not everything.
[09:42:06] <billybob> and I suspect this is what you guys mean by zones ?
[09:42:07] <fuzzy> create many instantances and use a load balancer in front
[09:42:17] <Tempt> use zones and SunCluster.
[09:42:20] <Tempt> too easy(tm)
[09:42:31] <billybob> too bad iceblink isnt around
[09:42:42] <billybob> blenk*
[09:42:51] <billybob> whatever his name is hes been away for too long ; )
[09:42:51] <tsoome> billybob: same will apply to vmware/xen;)
[09:42:54] <fuzzy> he's around
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[09:43:01] <logic> fuzzy: thanx, i downloaded the files
[09:43:03] <fuzzy> he's just been really busy with a ms deployment
[09:43:06] <libkeiser> suncluster and easy in the same sentence. hehehe
[09:43:07] <palowoda> I guess the bottom line is Opensolaris will have many options in the virtual community.
[09:43:15] <Tempt> virtual community
[09:43:21] <fuzzy> viral
[09:43:24] <billybob> deployment as in deploying multiple machines for a large company ?
[09:43:27] <edwardocallaghan> Tempt:Hey
[09:43:28] <tsoome> you cant really make say 100 virtual machines with wmvare, unless you have huge server;)
[09:43:32] <Tempt> that's that you get when you can't power up a real community
[09:43:37] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: hey.
[09:44:15] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: your SSGD account has been unused in a long time; clear to close it?
[09:44:18] <fuzzy> my idea is to take x massive machines setup x*4 guests behind them then lb that
[09:44:43] <edwardocallaghan> Tempt:I am been trying to complie mplayer on b70 all day but keep getting someting about hbcnsviw and option --E from grep ??? out of ./Configure
[09:44:56] <fuzzy> also by by using virtualization i can deploy different types of clusters on an already existing topology
[09:45:01] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: Compilinb mplayer is best left to those who enjoy pain.
[09:45:08] <edwardocallaghan> Tempt:You better close it, I just dont have the bandwidth to even get in
[09:45:21] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: Okay. let me know when your in a position to use it again
[09:45:23] <fuzzy> be it zones, be it vmware, be it xen, the idea is to pick one and stabilize around it
[09:45:36] <edwardocallaghan> Will do, thank you very much
[09:46:03] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: Your account hasn't been deleted, only locked, so when you need it again all your stuff will still be there
[09:46:08] <edwardocallaghan> How can I install a media player on solaris if I can't get in connected to the internet to download pkgs ?
[09:46:13] <palowoda> fuzzy: Pick one and let the competition use the other.
[09:46:27] <fuzzy> palowoda: why such a negative outlook?
[09:46:27] <edwardocallaghan> Tempt: :D very good
[09:46:29] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: Sounds like you need to steal some wifi or something
[09:46:39] <billybob> lol
[09:46:43] <palowoda> fuzzy: Limit yourself.
[09:46:44] <edwardocallaghan> narr, there is nothing in the ACT
[09:46:52] <palowoda> Get it?
[09:46:56] <billybob> or go to the library with a USB thumb : )
[09:47:04] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: Might be time to get some DSL at home then ...
[09:47:08] <edwardocallaghan> man this is getting stupid ! I am like in the sticks totaly
[09:47:23] <fuzzy> i find it much more unlimiting to be using virtualization then not
[09:47:34] <palowoda> I'm not being negitive.
[09:47:35] * billybob lives in the sticks, and the sticks have WiMax
[09:47:37] <billybob>  . . .
[09:47:38] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: Is your bandwidth allowance still like 10Mb a day?
[09:47:38] <edwardocallaghan> Well should I not be able to complie mplayer ?
[09:47:49] <edwardocallaghan> it complied fine in Fedora
[09:47:51] <edwardocallaghan> yes
[09:47:54] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: I'd take the easy option and use blastwave
[09:48:05] <edwardocallaghan> So I pulled like a tar a day :( grrr
[09:48:05] <fuzzy> fedora is not solaris
[09:48:06] <palowoda> edward: Damn just use blastwave.
[09:48:47] * billybob wonders if VLC has been ported to Solaris
[09:48:54] <tsoome> yes it is
[09:49:01] <edwardocallaghan> how can I use blastwave if I a, dont have the bandwidth to pull in all the Solaris 8/9/10 pkgs and b can get the computer connnected to the school network
[09:49:01] <tsoome> i have used it
[09:49:04] <fuzzy> so who wants to send me a POWER machine so i can play with aix?
[09:49:05] <Tempt> billybob: Yes, blastwave has it.
[09:49:10] <palowoda> Actaully billybob blastwave ported vlc.
[09:49:12] <Tempt> fuzzy: ebay does.
[09:49:19] <fuzzy> they want cash
[09:49:21] <fuzzy> i don't have cash
[09:49:22] <edwardocallaghan> I tried to complie VLC and still no luke
[09:49:41] <Tempt> fuzzy: well, make some money and try again? Then you can play with LPARs and WPARs and do MORE virtualisation
[09:49:45] <e^ipi> fuzzy: just buy one... you can get a 44p for $50
[09:49:48] <palowoda> Tempt will pay other users to run AIZ.
[09:49:54] <palowoda> AIX
[09:50:00] <tsoome> ed: thats an indication you should get precompiled binary pkg;)
[09:50:10] <libkeiser> but you can't run 6 on a 44p
[09:50:25] <fuzzy> umm you might want to add a zero to that total too
[09:50:28] <Tempt> and palowoda will pay people to say nice things about Indiana
[09:50:28] <edwardocallaghan> So anyone can a, help me with the complie or b give me someware I can download all the required pkgs ?
[09:50:37] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: www.blastwave.org
[09:50:39] <palowoda> You owe me.
[09:50:54] <edwardocallaghan> Tempt: :( come on
[09:50:55] <Tempt> palowoda: I'll change my tune when I recieve the first payment
[09:51:05] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: Seriously, just download the packages.
[09:51:16] <libkeiser> enjoy blastwave dependency hell :)
[09:51:23] <edwardocallaghan> I need to use pkg-add to pull and I dont have a system tha has internet to pull :(
[09:51:37] <Tempt> libkeiser: mplayer has so many deps blastwave makes sense
[09:51:40] <fuzzy> what are you using to talk to us right now?
[09:51:42] <palowoda> libkeiser: Than you resolve the dependency issue yourself.
[09:51:45] <tsoome> libkeiser: it doesnt matter if its blastwave or not, just welcome to free sw world...
[09:51:52] <e^ipi> fuzzy: no, that total was correct. i paid $50 plus $40 shipping for my 44p-170
[09:51:59] <e^ipi> true, it won't run 6
[09:52:03] <fuzzy> http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&catref=C6&from=R10&_trksid=m37&satitle=ibm+44p&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=ZIP%2FPostal&sabfmts=1&saobfmts=insif&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare&copagenum=1&coentrypage=search
[09:52:03] <edwardocallaghan> :p thanks
[09:52:44] <edwardocallaghan> If I can solve the compie problem, I may learn something and i will have a working mplayer
[09:52:59] <e^ipi> so it's a bad week for them... wait a while and try again
[09:53:04] <palowoda> but you didn't resolve the dependecy problem.
[09:53:38] <edwardocallaghan> I just need to know what to pass to configure --cc=/usr/sfw/bin/gcc
[09:53:46] <fuzzy> i'd rather save my copper for a x4500....
[09:53:53] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/packages/solaris/csw
[09:54:07] <palowoda> edwardocallaghn: are you prepared to build a compete envrionment?
[09:54:31] <Tempt> fuzzy: you'll be saving for a long time.\
[09:54:36] * billybob doesnt really need anything hardware wise any longer
[09:54:37] <fuzzy> hehe
[09:54:43] <edwardocallaghan> Tempt:Thanks
[09:54:55] <Tempt> edwardocallaghan: I found that link on ..... blastwave.org!
[09:54:56] * Tempt grins
[09:54:58] <logic> fuzzy: too bad :( i think it doesn't work Error: (2, 'Invalid kernel', "Kernel ELF architecture '3' does not match Xen architecture '62' (x86_64)")
[09:55:03] <fuzzy> any of you played with the x86 sun blade packages yet?
[09:55:10] <billybob> maybe an nVidia 8800GT !
[09:55:11] <fuzzy> logic: your on 64 bit
[09:55:28] <fuzzy> logic: that was 32bit
[09:56:22] <fuzzy> logic: your either going to need to install deb / ubuntu 64 and pull the kernel / initrd's youself ( and send them to me i'll be happy to make a dir structure and get this setup correctly ) or wait until tommarow
[09:57:37] <logic> fuzzy: oww. ok, i have an ubuntu here at work, with 64bit, i am at work tho, dont know if i have the time to get the kernels needed
[09:58:03] <fuzzy> just get into apt search for xen  and find the linux image
[09:58:11] <fuzzy> install that and your kernel / initrd will be in /boot
[09:58:34] <palowoda> fuzzy: As a non-profit how much do you get to spend on big blade servers?
[09:58:50] <fuzzy> well here's the thing
[09:58:54] <fuzzy> i kinda get to set the price
[09:59:02] <fuzzy> what i say is the final word
[09:59:07] <palowoda> $$$
[09:59:12] <fuzzy> but the idea is were going to talk to the people at hand
[09:59:19] <palowoda> Set the price.
[09:59:30] <fuzzy> and when i know what i have to work with ( data center wise ) i'll know what to set price wise
[09:59:37] <fuzzy> then the grant writers are going to go out and get the cash
[09:59:51] <fuzzy> i was thinking at first a pair of x4500's and a pair of x4600
[10:00:05] <fuzzy> then a few x4100's for other things like sql
[10:00:10] <edwardocallaghan> Tempt:Thanks I see were now, once again many thanks
[10:00:27] <palowoda> fuzzy: Ok what do you have now?
[10:00:36] <fuzzy> hardware or cash wise?
[10:00:43] <palowoda> hardware.
[10:00:46] <fuzzy> nothing
[10:00:59] <fuzzy> i told the grant writers to go secure me 5 mil
[10:01:10] <fuzzy> i've got a meeting next week with the data center's president
[10:01:15] <palowoda> Heck zones won't even help nothing.
[10:01:16] <fuzzy> supposedly he'll give us anything we ask for
[10:01:23] <Tempt> a pony
[10:01:28] <fuzzy> hehe
[10:01:51] <fuzzy> i told them i wanted a vault with 4 20a drops from two circuits and 2 100mb drops from seperate core routers
[10:02:14] <palowoda> A bird in the hand.
[10:02:20] <fuzzy> yea yea
[10:02:38] <fuzzy> like i said i have to go down sometime this week or next ( before the 12th ) and meet with the guy
[10:02:53] <fuzzy> someone had the great idea of getting sun to donate the hardware
[10:02:58] <fuzzy> but i haven't investigated it yet
[10:03:49] <fuzzy> this non-profit is a childrens tv game show if anyone is interested
[10:04:00] <fuzzy> where kids can win scholarships an such
[10:04:22] <jteo> pony?
[10:04:23] <palowoda> So VM's isn't a big concern for you.
[10:04:59] <palowoda> Your just worried about offering the best service for the buck.
[10:05:00] <fuzzy> actually it is
[10:05:07] <palowoda> How so?
[10:05:13] <fuzzy> because they want to deploy a load of different technologies
[10:05:32] <fuzzy> i figure it's going to be mainly jsp and flash type o stuff
[10:05:35] <logic> fuzzy: would xen-image-xen0-2.6.17-6-generic-xen0 be ok?
[10:05:36] <Tempt> amazing
[10:05:37] <palowoda> What technologies are tv game shows interested in?
[10:05:40] <logic> fuzzy: i see 3 types
[10:05:46] <edwardocallaghan> ok run out of bandwidth :p
[10:05:50] <logic> fuzzy: xen-image-xen0-2.6.17-6-bigiron-xen0 - Linux xen kernel binary image for version 2.6.17
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[10:05:53] <edwardocallaghan> see you next time
[10:05:54] <logic> xen-image-xen0-2.6.17-6-generic-xen0 - Linux xen kernel binary image for version 2.6.17
[10:05:57] <logic> xen-image-xen0-2.6.17-6-server-xen0 - Linux xen kernel binary image for version 2.6.17
[10:05:58] <fuzzy> palowoda: i can't say due to the nda
[10:05:58] <Tempt> You can run an entire enterprise on Solaris but a TV show .. man, that requires complexity
[10:06:07] <fuzzy> logic: use server
[10:06:32] <billybob> does he need PAE ?
[10:06:37] <fuzzy> billybob: it's 64 bit
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[10:06:57] <palowoda> nda on tv game shows for kids on open source systems ok.
[10:07:06] <fuzzy> Tempt: this is the web portal side of the tv show
[10:07:17] <fuzzy> the idea is to take the concept way past the next levels
[10:07:37] <palowoda> next levels of what?
[10:07:45] <Tempt> next levels of bollocks
[10:07:53] <fuzzy> add portals for kids to interact on all the various levels that seperate sites have done, but never brought together like this
[10:07:54] <Tempt> web tier should be OS-agnostic
[10:08:09] <Tempt> unless you're looking at some sort of .NET microsoft stuff
[10:08:13] <fuzzy> fuck no
[10:08:22] * fuzzy washes tempt's mouth out with soap
[10:08:27] <palowoda> kid per portal?
[10:08:31] <fuzzy> hehe
[10:08:48] <palowoda> kid per cpu?
[10:08:57] <Tempt> So there's no need for multiple platforms, all the key web tech is fine for most platforms
[10:09:08] <palowoda> kid per OS?
[10:09:13] <fuzzy> ha
[10:09:18] <Tempt> shit, you can run with AMP/rails/perl on OS/2 if you want
[10:09:21] <fuzzy> k/kb?
[10:09:39] <palowoda> project control in solaris?
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[10:09:57] <palowoda> resource management
[10:10:09] <palowoda> pools
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[10:10:50] <fuzzy> any of you played with the sun blade chassis's at all?
[10:11:10] <Tempt> fuzzy: Yeah
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[10:11:29] <Tempt> fuzzy: They're blades, they've got great I/O on the 8000, they're noisy as a 747 but they're workable and nice
[10:11:32] <fuzzy> do they have any kind of high speed internal networking bus like inifiband in them?
[10:11:51] <Tempt> fuzzy: You'd have to check the HPC stuff for that.
[10:11:55] <fuzzy> k
[10:12:09] <Tempt> fuzzy: but not AFAIK, you'd have to stick infiniband cards in them. Which is fine, the 8000 has slots
[10:12:24] <Tempt> Your TV show needs infiniband interconnects for web tier?
[10:12:26] <Tempt> Bloody hell
[10:12:31] <fuzzy> i'm just thinking of some high speed alternative to ethernet
[10:12:38] <Tempt> what's this, real-time-raytracing of content?
[10:12:43] <fuzzy> HA
[10:12:45] <palowoda> 10GE ethernet?
[10:12:53] <Tempt> fuzzy: 10Gig ethernet is a little slow, I guess
[10:12:54] <Tempt> (!)
[10:13:09] <fuzzy> i was hoping for some sort of alternative to ethernet
[10:13:14] <Tempt> Why?
[10:13:21] <Tempt> Just to be difficult? Or to spend more money?
[10:13:26] <Tempt> Do IP over fibre channel
[10:13:29] <fuzzy> both?
[10:13:39] <fuzzy> IP over FC sounds like a good idea
[10:13:49] <Tempt> Yep, HBAs cost a lot more than ethernet cards
[10:13:58] <fuzzy> yea i know
[10:14:09] <Tempt> and you'll have more driver fun
[10:14:16] <Tempt> which covers both difficult and spending more money
[10:14:46] <palowoda> Hell the connection bandwidth is going to cost a penny or two.
[10:15:04] <Tempt> Or
[10:15:10] <Tempt> Just get a 25K
[10:15:15] <Tempt> fully loaded
[10:15:17] <Tempt> split into two domains
[10:15:21] <Tempt> suncluster over SCI between them
[10:15:23] <Tempt> easy
[10:15:25] <Tempt> cheap
[10:15:26] <fuzzy> actually the bandwidth is supposedly not going to cost us a dime
[10:15:26] <Tempt> simple
[10:15:37] <fuzzy> because they can "donate" it to us and get a tax write off
[10:15:42] <fuzzy> supposedly that has all been setup
[10:15:43] <palowoda> Damn free bandwidth.
[10:15:52] <fuzzy> i'll know more after my meeting with them
[10:16:02] <fuzzy> the joys of 501(c)
[10:16:16] <billybob> the joys of tax rite offs ; )
[10:16:17] <fuzzy> 501(c)3 or something
[10:16:43] <palowoda> May SO did a 501(c)3 before.  No fun.
[10:17:06] <fuzzy> May SO?
[10:17:24] <palowoda> s/May/My
[10:17:32] <fuzzy> ah
[10:17:42] <fuzzy> yea the only reason i got tied up in these people
[10:18:13] <fuzzy> is the fact that they reached over 2 billion kids last season, they've got many strong backers and the fact that this tv program has made it 14 years already
[10:18:26] <fuzzy> normally i don't touch this crap without a 10 foot pole or a suitcase full of cash
[10:19:09] <palowoda> It's the IRS paper work that is a pain.
[10:19:17] <fuzzy> not my dept(TM)
[10:19:44] <palowoda> Your luck just to get the status.
[10:19:59] <palowoda> s/luck/lucky
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[10:20:22] <fuzzy> well they have it
[10:20:30] <fuzzy> i've met with everyone on the board
[10:20:34] <fuzzy> i've met with the grant writers
[10:20:40] <fuzzy> i've met with the investors
[10:20:49] <logic> fuzzy: dammit, i still got the wrong kernel, maybe you can try when you have the time
[10:21:05] <fuzzy> logic: tommarow find icarus901 tell him what your doing
[10:21:15] <fuzzy> and then you can go edit my wiki page to update the 64bit goodies
[10:21:52] <logic> fuzzy: LOL ok, i will
[10:21:56] <Teln12100> fuzzy you sure thats 2 'Billion' ?
[10:22:00] <fuzzy> so is the big difference between the 8000 P and the 6000 chassis quad vs. dual cpu?
[10:22:21] <fuzzy> Teln12100: supposedly every major continent and it's in syndicate in china as we speak
[10:22:30] <fuzzy> it just completed a run in korea
[10:22:50] <fuzzy> and it was all over europe and south america last spring
[10:23:44] <timeless> hrm
[10:23:46] <timeless> stevel?
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[10:23:50] <Teln12100> sounds BIG
[10:23:53] <fuzzy> yea
[10:23:58] <timeless> or anyone else using defect.opensolaris.org/bz/
[10:24:01] <timeless> and is anyone?
[10:24:05] <fuzzy> you should see the poster on the wall i made of the plan
[10:24:06] <timeless> (here/now)
[10:24:27] <fuzzy> and what was cool about it, one of the investors runs an ad agency that let me use their plotter
[10:24:52] <fuzzy> so i pushed some of my diagrams ( vector based of course ) out on this nice 36" wide hp
[10:25:03] <palowoda> timeless: what is the issue with defect.opensolaris.org?
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[10:25:42] <fuzzy> it's defective of course
[10:25:49] <fuzzy> they must be useing sun hardware :p
[10:26:05] <timeless> palowoda: i'm wondering if you have used or looked a time tracking
[10:26:11] <palowoda> fuzzy: You don't even have the contract yet. Count your chickens later.
[10:26:35] <timeless> http://defect.opensolaris.org/bz/show_bug.cgi?id=8&format=multiple&id=40&id=19&id=35&id=1&id=36&id=16&id=30&id=3&id=13&id=23&id=22&id=42&id=7&id=39&id=18&id=33&id=29&id=34&id=15&id=26&id=43&id=11&id=41&id=21&id=37&id=5&id=4&id=38&id=17&id=32&id=28&id=20&id=14&id=24&id=27
[10:26:42] <timeless> consider that page
[10:26:47] <fuzzy> palowoda: i'm not counting chickens, i'm only repeating what has been said to me
[10:26:51] <timeless> is all the lines w/
[10:26:52] <timeless> Time tracking:
[10:26:52] <timeless> Orig. Est. Actual Hours Hours Worked Hours Left %Complete Gain
[10:26:52] <timeless> 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0 0.0
[10:27:01] <fuzzy> i hate to say this but i'm not in it for the money
[10:27:02] <timeless> (all zeros) helpful, or just as useless as it seems to me
[10:27:53] <palowoda> timeless: You might be right bring it up with stevel but he is around during afternoon and evening hours PST.
[10:29:04] <timeless> palowoda: i'm a bugzilla dev, i'll file it upstream (and probably fix it)
[10:29:13] <timeless> but i can take opinions from anyone
[10:29:19] <palowoda> Ah. K.
[10:29:24] <timeless> i'm not complaining about the osol roll out
[10:29:42] <timeless> it's just a feature i don't use, so i haven't spent time complaining about (or looking at)
[10:30:09] <palowoda> Say is stevel the only one admining opensolaris.org these days?
[10:30:27] <palowoda> Somebody else must be doing it.
[10:30:49] <palowoda> You bring up some good questions.
[10:31:25] <timeless> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=401860 in case you have an opinion
[10:31:34] <timeless> palowoda: thanks :)
[10:31:43] * timeless files lots of bugs
[10:31:58] <timeless> actually, i'm fairly impressed w/ the bugs i saw in that list
[10:32:02] <timeless> and the responses
[10:32:14] <timeless> at work, when i file bugs like that, they're shelved for years :(~
[10:32:16] <palowoda> It's better that BOO isn't it.
[10:32:29] <timeless> that ~ than ?
[10:32:42] <palowoda> Ok. You know what I mean.
[10:32:57] <palowoda> b.o.o can go to hell.
[10:33:39] <timeless> sorry, i deal w/ a lot of typos and also a lot of misunderstandings
[10:33:50] <timeless> when i make typos people often pick the wrong correction
[10:34:12] <timeless> (and at this point, my 't' key is broken, which means there are many typos to see and "wo" can easily be mis-corrected
[10:35:08] <palowoda> Lets put it this way opensolaris bug traking is a bigger mistake than a simple typo.
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[10:37:18] <palowoda> defect.opensolaris.org is a just as big of a change as Indiana itself.
[10:37:41] <palowoda> for the better of coarse.
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[10:41:15] <sickness> morning all
[10:41:25] <dan_p> hello
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[10:42:14] <dan_p> I've attempted to setup a system disk raid1 mirror on x86 & want to test booting from the secondary disk, can anyone give me any advice on how to test that?
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[10:50:13] <nico> dan_p: on zfs ?
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[10:50:59] <dan_p> nico: no, just a standard SVM style mirror
[10:51:53] <nico> dan_p: then I can't answer :)
[10:52:29] * nico goes on the last tests for his zfs filer : let's play with power supplies
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[10:58:00] <ceri> nico; what are you building that with, out of interest?
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[11:00:05] <Fish> hello
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[11:11:17] <nico> ceri: based on supermicro chassis & MB
[11:11:24] <nico> ceri: with areca cards
[11:12:04] <nico> humm
[11:12:13] <nico> i get this error : http://www.sun.com/msg/ZFS-8000-9P
[11:12:26] <nico> shall I change the disks ?
[11:12:33] <nico>             c5t0d0  ONLINE       0     0     6
[11:12:33] <nico>             c5t1d0  ONLINE       0     0     2
[11:12:33] <nico>             c5t2d0  ONLINE       0     0     2
[11:12:55] <Tempt> if all your disks are failing
[11:12:58] <Tempt> you either have a
[11:13:02] <Tempt> bad controller
[11:13:06] <Tempt> horrible environments
[11:13:09] <Tempt> fsckin' bad luck
[11:13:12] <Tempt> ...
[11:13:24] <ceri> These are injected errors, didn't you say?
[11:13:35] <nico> ceri: not for the moment
[11:13:41] <ceri> oh
[11:14:03] <nico> gonna kick a few GB in its face, we'll see if errors continue to occur
[11:15:44] <trygvis> scrub it
[11:16:09] <nico> trygvis: ?
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[11:25:54] <quasi> zfs scrub
[11:26:11] <timsf> morning all
[11:26:20] <trochej> timsf: HAppy Birth
[11:26:45] <timsf> Thanks!
[11:26:54] <timsf> Great to be 32, I heartily recommend it!
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[11:27:48] <mlh_> 2^5
[11:28:03] <Pietro_S> ;-)
[11:28:06] <mlh_> nice round number birthday
[11:28:48] <nico> quasi: this zfs command is unknown
[11:29:08] <ofu> then your zfs is broken by design
[11:29:16] <ofu> ah, zpool scrub
[11:29:29] <ofu> more coffee
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[11:38:20] <trochej> I can't take more coffe
[11:38:27] * trochej weeps
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[11:41:09] * Tempt pours an espresso down trochej's throat
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[11:53:24] <quasi> doh!
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[11:53:44] <timsf> God, I hate smosservice & friends.
[11:53:47] * quasi is clearly not awake
[11:53:58] <timsf> bloody management console. curse it.
[11:54:34] <palowoda> timsf: Are you talking about smc?
[11:54:50] <timsf> That and it's command line brethren.
[11:54:57] * trochej wakes up and gurgles the coffee
[11:55:35] <palowoda> I don't think anybody takes smc serious.
[11:55:37] <trochej> God
[11:55:46] <trochej> I hate building .debs
[11:55:55] <timsf> despite the fact it's the supported way to set up diskless clients
[11:56:04] <timsf>  (though I don't know if anyone takes them seriously either ;-)
[11:56:35] <timsf> regardless, I need to get diskless booting working on a machine here, and the last time I did that was back for Solaris 2.6
[11:56:42] <timsf> I'll keep hacking.
[11:56:56] <palowoda> Come on smc is the running joke of all Solaris admin apps of all times.
[11:57:25] <timsf> It's not even the gui bit I need to run - there's a command line part, smosservice and smdiskless that are as bad
[11:58:02] <timsf> out of the box on s10u2, it just doesn't work (java class version missmatch) and goes downhill from there
[11:58:13] * timsf composes himself.
[11:58:16] <kjetilho> gah, why struggle with a GUI?  just edit the files by hand
[11:58:31] <timsf> got a pointer to what needs to be done ?
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[11:58:42] <palowoda> I just thought about it. smc isn't in Indiana.  Is that an advantage?
[11:58:43] <kjetilho> timsf: it's not very different from Jumpstart, really
[11:59:00] <timsf> Score!
[11:59:00] <kjetilho> on SPARC, that is.  it too mounts root over NFS
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[11:59:17] <timsf> Sparc's what I'm after ( need to see that newboot-sparc doesn't break diskless)
[11:59:20] <edwardocallaghan> ping
[11:59:41] <kjetilho> so you basically just exchange the path to the root in the bootparams
[11:59:50] <edwardocallaghan> ok backon
[11:59:58] <edwardocallaghan> dclarke:ping
[12:00:04] <timsf> which key in bootparams ?
[12:00:16] <timsf> s;alright, I'll Google a bit...
[12:00:28] <edwardocallaghan> anyone know what blastwave pkg provides libldap-2.3.so.0  ?
[12:01:20] <palowoda> Are you going to use ldap from blastwave.  If not don't worry about it.
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[12:02:24] <edwardocallaghan> no I am trying to install mplayer offline by getting pkgs from blastwave
[12:03:01] <palowoda> Well if you where using ldap as a name service you might be concerned.  Are you using ldap?
[12:05:00] <edwardocallaghan> no
[12:05:14] <edwardocallaghan> I just need the lib so mplayer will start
[12:06:04] <edwardocallaghan> i also need libgcc_s.so.1 and liblber-2.3.so.0
[12:06:05] <palowoda> ldd /opt/csw/bin/mplayer
[12:06:15] <edwardocallaghan> thats what i have done
[12:06:30] <edwardocallaghan> libz.so.1 (SUNW_1.1) =>	 (version not found)
[12:06:35] <palowoda> and it says it needs ldap libs?
[12:06:42] <edwardocallaghan> once I have all of the above I can start using it
[12:06:50] <edwardocallaghan> yes !? Don't ask me
[12:07:15] <edwardocallaghan> I did not build the pkg spec file :p
[12:07:47] <palowoda> cool the mplayer I got from blastwave shows no ldap libs as a dependency.
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[12:08:05] <edwardocallaghan> ?
[12:08:18] <palowoda> It's magic.
[12:08:27] <edwardocallaghan> ldd give me libldap-2.3.so.0 =>	 (file not found)
[12:08:34] <takahide> edwardocallaghan: http://www.blastwave.org/filesearch
[12:08:35] <edwardocallaghan> I have no clue why
[12:09:31] <palowoda> You think that blastwave would download the dependant files automaticlly.
[12:09:58] <trygvis> which mplayer version are you using palowoda?
[12:10:10] <trygvis> the one in unstable is .. unstable :)
[12:10:21] <palowoda> I use the mplayer from Alvardo
[12:11:16] <palowoda> I was smart enough to save the version before the license scam.
[12:11:35] <edwardocallaghan> I am using stable
[12:11:44] <edwardocallaghan> ok thanks all ;)
[12:11:52] <edwardocallaghan> takahide:Thanks
[12:12:59] <edwardocallaghan> OK well I have very limited bandwidth, thank again
[12:13:08] <palowoda> Though the boneheads started a problem with libcdio at build 75. But that is fixed with the SUNWlibcdio packages from builds less than 75
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[12:14:46] <palowoda> Sometimes I swear Opensolaris is it's worst enemy.
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[12:19:08] <stoxx> hi.
[12:19:20] <stoxx> what would be the correct place to ask stupid newbie questions
[12:19:50] <stoxx> as i'm having trouble googling for solaris-x86 boot theory
[12:20:00] <jmcp> stoxx: just ask
[12:21:12] <stoxx> i shuffled some disks around - causing the sxce to not load
[12:21:22] <stoxx> instant reboot after grub
[12:21:39] <stoxx> if it was linux i'd know what to do (root=/dev/sdx etc etc)
[12:22:03] <stoxx> i know there are good manuals somewhere, but.. no luck
[12:22:24] <jmcp> so you need to tell grub where the rootdisk is
[12:22:38] <jmcp> and where the modules are etc
[12:22:44] <jmcp> question - why did you shuffle disks around?
[12:23:00] <stoxx> originally sata port 0 was empty
[12:23:02] <sommerfeld> stoxx: does it get as far as loading the kernel (do you see the copyright notice from solaris?)
[12:23:09] <stoxx> but now there are full 8 disks
[12:23:23] <stoxx> so previously bios disk 0 was sata port 1
[12:23:27] <stoxx> now it is sata port 0
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[12:24:32] <stoxx> sommerfeld: i think not.. but the reboot is so fast i'm not sure
[12:25:13] <palowoda> stoxx: This link might help  http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/features/articles/grub_boot_faq.jsp
[12:26:00] <palowoda> Of coase you shouldn't shuffle the disks around after the install.  Right?
[12:26:09] <palowoda> Golden rule.
[12:26:18] <kjetilho> stoxx: shuffle them back, and edit menu.lst to contain an entry for both drives
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[12:26:40] <jmcp> and don't forget to run installgrub!
[12:27:28] <ceri> i don't see why grub can't use the serial number or something rather than the bios
[12:28:06] <jmcp> because bios is a r00ted concept, and it's the universe we have to deal with for the moment
[12:28:28] <jmcp> .... and there are very limited features available to allow us to do intelligent things like check serial numbers or devids etc
[12:28:29] <jmcp> :(
[12:28:34] * jmcp hates bios with a passion
[12:28:43] <ceri> true that
[12:28:48] <LeftWing> But James, surely it's been around this long for its merits? :P
[12:29:03] <palowoda> jmcp should hate how grub affects sparc boot in the future.
[12:29:29] <ceri> do tell
[12:29:35] <palowoda> platform parity
[12:30:01] <palowoda> zfs boot forever
[12:30:11] <ceri> except that's not possible to achieve.
[12:30:26] <palowoda> no hope for indiana
[12:30:28] <ceri> zfs boot should live in obp and I had always assumed that it would
[12:30:31] <jmcp> palowoda: I'm already hating it
[12:30:46] <palowoda> it's a fact of reality
[12:30:53] <jmcp> heh, you think that's funky
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[12:31:26] <jmcp> just wait until we get our next phase changes done - we're planning on changing the boot universe and working on SAS or SATA world-wide IDs rather than controller/target numbers
[12:31:27] <Doc> why would zfs boot live in obp?
[12:31:36] <Doc> after all, obp doesnt even support ufs!
[12:31:47] <jmcp> Doc: but obp has knowledge of ufs builtin
[12:31:58] <jmcp> just enough to know how to find the bootblock and bootstrap
[12:32:01] <jmcp> but enough
[12:32:02] <ceri> quite.
[12:32:08] <jmcp> for zfs ... it's .... interesting
[12:32:11] <Doc> the bootblock isn't "UFS"
[12:32:25] <timeless> jmcp: is that EFS?
[12:32:28] <Doc> it's at a fixed position on the disk, just like the partition table
[12:32:35] * timeless tries to remember the disk id suff for vista
[12:32:44] <sommerfeld> no.  OBP has no knowledge of UFS
[12:32:51] <sommerfeld> OBP has knowledge of sun disk labels
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[12:33:03] * Doc hands sommerfeld a cookie
[12:33:14] <sommerfeld> it loads a small forth boot block from disk
[12:33:26] <LeftWing> So what it would need for fully-fledged ZFS boot is EFI label support, or some such?
[12:33:44] <jmcp> sommerfeld: ah sorry,that's what I meant
[12:33:45] <Tempt> spare sun memory acquired
[12:33:46] <Doc> leftwing: and ZFS code written in Forth
[12:33:50] <trochej> Frog. I ost link to Solaris package making guide
[12:33:51] <Tempt> 40x256Mb for $99
[12:33:52] <trochej> Wait
[12:33:52] <Tempt> not toooo bad
[12:33:57] <trochej> One oughto be at blastwave
[12:33:58] <LeftWing> Doc: Arr.
[12:34:01] <timeless> EFI, yeah, that one
[12:34:02] <sommerfeld> though you get 95% of the way there with just ZFS code in forth
[12:34:14] <Doc> jmcp: point is, from the OBP perspective, it's not UFS - it could be anything
[12:34:17] <jmcp> it's a rare bunch who work on obp
[12:34:18] <jmcp> true
[12:34:19] <sommerfeld> (and your root pool in a sun labelled disk)
[12:34:24] <jmcp> but there's extra stuff needed
[12:34:27] <sommerfeld> the UFS-in-forth is in ON
[12:34:53] <timeless> sommerfeld: how big is it? :)
[12:35:03] <ceri> So why can't that exist for ZFS?  FreeBSD has some ZFS support in the loader and that's forth too.
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[12:35:34] <Doc> timeless: -r--r--r--   1 root     sys         5936 Jan 22  2005 /usr/platform/SUNW,Ultra-60/lib/fs/ufs/bootblk
[12:35:37] <Doc> about that big :)
[12:35:46] <timeless> wow
[12:37:35] <stoxx> not a grub problem
[12:37:41] <stoxx> i do get the solaris copyright message etc
[12:37:46] <Honk> is there any usable livecd? =)
[12:37:59] <palowoda> belenix.org
[12:38:03] <Honk> usable
[12:38:10] <Honk> that one needs sse2
[12:38:17] <Honk> :P
[12:38:29] <palowoda> sse2 is usable otherwise not.
[12:38:30] <Honk> (and it doesnt boot at all on my system with sse2 *lol*)
[12:38:48] <palowoda> you have a 286 system?
[12:39:06] <ceri> So hang on, palowoda is saying that grub is coming to sparc or what?  I don't see the "hate how grub affects sparc boot in future" thing
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[12:39:09] <Honk> i've got plenty of systems with athlon xps inside
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[12:39:34] <palowoda> Honk: upgrade.
[12:39:40] <Honk> and very few with sse2 support.. only one on which i could test it without disturbing someone.. and belenix does not even get past grub on that one
[12:39:50] <Honk> palowoda: errh.. sure.. gimmeh 20k ? or so
[12:40:05] <jmcp> stoxx: add "-kv" to your kernel$ line and reboot, then let us know what point you get to
[12:40:06] <stoxx> so what i really need is a way to tell the kernel where to look for root fs
[12:40:43] <stoxx> wow
[12:40:44] <palowoda> Honk: Send me the PO.
[12:40:47] <stoxx> cannot mount root path
[12:40:52] <jmcp> stoxx: right
[12:40:55] <jmcp> just what I figured
[12:40:56] <stoxx> etc
[12:41:18] <stoxx> that was also what i expected was the problem
[12:41:21] <jmcp> so you need to try the failsafe boot, then mount the existing installation on /a and edit /a/etc/vfstab so that the mountpoints are correct
[12:41:34] <stoxx> hold..
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[12:41:56] <jmcp> stoxx: hint - if you're seeing a panic/reboot loop on boot, add "-k" to the kernel$ line so that you can get to kmdb and figure out what's going on rather than just rebooting
[12:42:01] <Honk> i'll just stop trying to use opensolaris =)
[12:42:33] <stoxx> jmcp: yeah that was helpful
[12:42:46] <stoxx> do i need to do something to make vfstab effective
[12:42:50] <stoxx> or is it read by grub
[12:42:51] <jpdrawneek> any zone guys about?  got a problem with ip instances
[12:43:05] <palowoda> Ok at least you ask permission. :)
[12:43:08] <jmcp> stoxx: I don't think grub reads /etc/vfstab
[12:43:34] <jmcp> stoxx: once you've made the edits to /a/etc/vfstab, you should run      /sbin/update-archive -R /a
[12:43:41] <jmcp> to make sure you've got everything in sync
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[12:44:08] <stoxx> ok.
[12:44:16] <stoxx> now a clue on a text editor that works in failsafe..
[12:44:28] <jpdrawneek> ed
[12:44:45] <stoxx> (this is a usability problem.. :D)
[12:44:47] <palowoda> vi works in failsafe.
[12:44:52] <stoxx> no it doesnt
[12:44:59] <stoxx> complains about terminal
[12:45:00] <jpdrawneek> use ed
[12:45:05] <stoxx> ed. w-t-f
[12:45:10] <trochej> yeah
[12:45:15] <trochej> And record your session :)
[12:45:44] <stoxx> now this is a situation where i dont know whether to laugh or cry
[12:45:47] <stoxx> use ed.
[12:45:48] <stoxx> RIGHT
[12:45:57] <jpdrawneek> its great - ed - its a line editor that will always work
[12:46:04] <tsp> What's wrong with ed? I use it, or a derivitive of it at least, for several hours every day
[12:46:09] <stoxx> i'd use some serious language if i wasnt so polite
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[12:46:35] <palowoda> do da do da
[12:46:36] <jpdrawneek> i have fixed many fubar boxes with ed
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[12:46:54] <jmcp> stoxx: TERM=at386 ; export TERM
[12:47:03] <stoxx> now that's better..
[12:47:08] 
[12:47:10] <jmcp> stoxx: remember that termtype :)
[12:48:00] <palowoda> jmcp: You think that someone would have set that for the default dependent on the platform.  But that is a usablity question.
[12:48:01] <stoxx> thanks
[12:48:09] <stoxx> i'd consider it not being set by default a but
[12:48:10] <stoxx> bug
[12:48:22] <palowoda> No a usablity question.
[12:48:29] <jmcp> palowoda: damn, yeah. I'll log that now
[12:48:30] <stoxx> if such things were for me to consider
[12:48:33] <Stric> a usability bug :)
[12:48:42] <stoxx> usability = feature
[12:48:43] <jmcp> stoxx: definitely
[12:48:44] <stoxx> broken feature = bug
[12:49:12] <palowoda> jmcp: Log it in defect.opensolaris.org see what happens.
[12:49:39] * tsp probably wouldn't want that termtype over a serial console though, unless programs won't send random escape sequences to it
[12:50:29] <jmcp> I was sure it had been fixed along the way
[12:50:44] <timeless> what's this?
[12:50:49] <jmcp> palowoda: I'll use bugster tyvm so I know it's been logged
[12:50:58] <jmcp> timeless: default on-console termtype for x86
[12:51:02] <jmcp> it's not set rightr
[12:51:26] <timeless> oh yes
[12:51:30] <jmcp> damn
[12:51:38] <stoxx> (update-archive is to be found..)
[12:51:40] <timeless> ok, sorry, to me platform often means bugzilla sniffing (which i own)
[12:51:41] <jmcp> need to find the right cat/subcat
[12:51:48] <timeless> good luck with that :(
[12:52:03] <timeless> btw: how do you find the right cat/subcat (generally)?
[12:53:26] <sommerfeld> timeless: the most efficient way i've found is to find a source file involved with the bug and look at bugids in its change history.
[12:53:39] <timeless> heh
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[12:54:16] <timeless> how hard is it for you to find a relevant source file?
[12:55:57] <sommerfeld> it varies.  cross-references are very valuable for this (the opensolaris source browser; cscope, etc.,)
[12:56:07] * timeless nods
[12:56:21] <timeless> for mozilla i use lxr/mxr and jump to bonsai for the log
[12:57:09] * timeless should pull from hg someday and see how mxr handles osol
[12:58:23] * sommerfeld thinks timeless should plug mxr or whatever into usr/src/tools/scripts/xref as yet another indexer..
[12:58:27] <stoxx> (still tring to locate update-archive)
[12:58:36] <sommerfeld> stoxx: "bootadm update-archive"
[12:58:39] <sommerfeld> subcommand of bootadm
[12:58:49] <stoxx> right! so nothing in sbin
[12:59:15] <timeless> sommerfeld: i'll have to look at that someday, maybe early next year..
[12:59:36] * timeless needs to look into cloning / promoing / renaming nexenta so it can boot properly again
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[13:00:33] <stoxx> so far all my experiences with solaris is that everything is nice and beautiful and everything - after the week-long googlefest for figuring out the correct command :D
[13:00:42] <ceri> How I delete the contents of my nvramrc with nvedit?
[13:01:50] <sommerfeld> (xref is currently a wrapper for ctags, etags, and cscope; makefiles are set up to invoke it in a few places)
[13:02:02] <tsp> stoxx: solaris is great - unless I play with it, it's stable as a rock
[13:02:06] <jmcp> logged  6624126 PC-style hardware should have a default TERM of at386
[13:02:21] <jmcp> stoxx: you should have come here first :)
[13:02:50] <stoxx> appears so.
[13:02:59] <stoxx> but i'm still trying to root disk@1
[13:03:00] <tsp> of course the community is helpful - haven't tried the lists, but I suspect the same holds true there
[13:03:33] <jmcp> heckno we don't help anybody, we just hinder and taunt you!
[13:03:34] <stoxx> community is - google isn't
[13:03:35] <jmcp> :-)
[13:04:20] <stoxx> my old friend - completely useless :D
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[13:06:03] <palowoda> date
[13:06:09] <palowoda> opps sorry
[13:06:23] <jpdrawneek> Any body know when people who use zones are about?  need to find out if i have found a bug or my install is fubar
[13:07:13] <stoxx> so how do i tell the kernel to use serial number instead of device target number? :D
[13:07:22] <stoxx> FS serial number even.
[13:07:32] <jmcp> stoxx: doesn't work that way, if I understand what you're asking
[13:07:44] <stoxx> that's a bit of a joke
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[13:07:58] <stoxx> someone talked about grub needing to understand such concept
[13:08:24] <stoxx> grub is fine by me. i'm looking for root=UUID stuff
[13:08:26] <jmcp> stoxx: no, grub looks at what the bios presents
[13:08:30] <jmcp> nope, none of that
[13:08:31] <Tempt> grub=crap
[13:08:47] <stoxx> (well ATM i'm just looking for root=/dev/sda1 stuff)
[13:08:58] <palowoda> Yeah Tempt and AIX is the cats meow too.
[13:09:03] <stoxx> no i dont have a problem with grub
[13:09:12] <stoxx> i'm just unable to tell the kernel where to find the root
[13:09:24] <libkeiser> it is the cats meow
[13:09:33] <jmcp> stoxx: on linux where would you use root=/dev/sda1?
[13:09:44] <stoxx> kernel command line
[13:09:45] * jmcp gears up to translate to Solaris
[13:09:46] <jmcp> oh
[13:09:51] <jmcp> no, we don't do that
[13:09:54] <jmcp> did you boot failsafe yet?
[13:09:56] <stoxx> yea i figured
[13:10:13] <stoxx> yes, and edited vfstab and ran bootadm update-archive
[13:10:14] <stoxx> with no luck
[13:10:47] <sommerfeld> there is another hiding place: /boot/solaris/bootenv.rc's "bootpath" variable.
[13:10:58] <stoxx> being able to hack the command line is .. convenient
[13:11:19] <stoxx> ? going to look for that
[13:11:36] <jmcp> remember to prepend the /a
[13:11:43] <stoxx> (the stupid pc takes 2 minutes to get to grub prompt..)
[13:11:47] <Tempt> e^ipi: ping
[13:12:11] <sommerfeld> (boot failsafe, mount root on /a, edit /a/boot/solaris/bootenv.rc, rebuild boot archive)
[13:12:38] <sommerfeld> it may actually be possible to pass that on the command line.
[13:13:24] <trochej> Sometimes in Linux grub has different disk names than linux kernel
[13:13:43] <sommerfeld> might work
[13:13:43] <stoxx> grub _always_ has different disk names
[13:13:54] <trochej> I had once situation that grub used one name, kernel line root=/ parameter other and /etc/fstab ayet another
[13:13:57] <sommerfeld> (at least it works for other parameters in bootenv.rc, including the console stuff)
[13:14:01] <stoxx> grub talks in bios disk numbers like (hd0,0)
[13:14:02] <palowoda> Does the linux grub work with booting Solaris?
[13:14:19] <trochej> palowoda: Recent opught to, but Solaris grub boots Linux no problem
[13:14:28] <trochej> stoxx: I know that
[13:14:40] <palowoda> Ah so they fixed the swap id problem.
[13:14:43] <stoxx> but that happens still
[13:14:55] <stoxx> especially if playing around with md
[13:14:56] <sommerfeld> palowoda: solaris changed fdisk id's
[13:14:57] <jmcp> stoxx: _if_ you use a -B bootpath=$devicespath option, then you'll need to give it something like    /pci at 0,0/ dot ..../ide@0/cmdk@....
[13:15:14] <stoxx> jmcp: yes i figured
[13:15:32] <palowoda> sommerfeld: I was kind of thinking of Linux grub but that isn't an issue.
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[13:17:05] * stoxx wishes he was using serial console - just to be able to copypaste the device path..
[13:20:43] <tsp> Why is the solaris mountpoint by default named /a?
[13:21:28] <tomww> tsp: it's a path used for many years when installing from CDROM...
[13:21:52] <timeless> it's nice and short :)
[13:22:05] <stoxx> bootenv.rc did the trick.
[13:22:08] <stoxx> thanks all!
[13:22:27] <palowoda> It's '/a' mount point.
[13:22:31] * tsp likes short
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[13:25:27] <jmcp> palowoda: that's /a terrible pun
[13:27:20] <trochej> :)
[13:27:37] <timeless> it's certainly /a convenient place for things :)
[13:27:42] <sommerfeld> I think of it as "/a" for alternate.
[13:28:06] * timeless wonders how hard it would be to find out
[13:28:14] <timeless> searching for "a" doesn't sound very fun
[13:28:23] <timeless> someone tried searching for "function" earlier today :)
[13:28:37] <tsp> Where do I report a missing ; after the first &nbsp on http://bugs.opensolaris.org/ ? My email to webmaster at opensolaris dot org bounced.
[13:28:48] <palowoda> heh sommerfeld you mean an alternate. :)
[13:28:55] <stoxx> so, does sun need usability testers for indiana?
[13:28:59] <stoxx> :D
[13:29:20] <palowoda> indiana is used up pick another state.
[13:29:23] <timeless> tsp: where is this?
[13:29:34] <tsp> timeless: it only shows up in edbrowse
[13:29:47] <tsp> timeless: hit view source on http://bugs.opensolaris.org
[13:29:50] <timeless> ?
[13:30:06] <tsp> it shows &nbsp, it needs a ; after the nbsp
[13:30:06] <timeless> oh, that's "the other bug tracker"
[13:30:16] <timeless> gotcha
[13:30:19] * timeless cares less :)
[13:30:36] <tsp> I guess that's the only bug tracker there is that the public can use
[13:30:45] <tsp> unless a new one was released that I don't know about :)
[13:30:45] <timeless> http://defect.opensolaris.org/bz/
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[13:30:49] <tsp> oh
[13:30:50] <timeless> isn't private
[13:31:02] <timeless> just confusing :)
[13:31:05] * tsp hasn't heard of that one
[13:31:07] <palowoda> The new bug tracker is called "bugs are use"
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[13:31:24] <jmcp> :)
[13:31:25] <palowoda> s/use/us
[13:31:32] <timeless> palowoda: i hope that means you don't mind zarro boogs found :)
[13:31:37] <tsp> do I need to register for it?
[13:31:44] <timeless> tsp: to file bugs? sure
[13:31:53] <tsp> or will my opensoalris.org username/pw transfer over to it
[13:31:54] <palowoda> use the name bozo
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[13:32:16] <timeless> sorry, i'm fairly certain they didn't do unified accoutns
[13:32:17] <timeless> they can
[13:32:31] <timeless> but to search, you don' need to register
[13:32:35] <tsp> ah
[13:32:49] <tsp> did all the bugs from bugs.opensolaris.org transfer?
[13:33:04] <palowoda> and you can attach and add to a bug id.  Novel concept.
[13:33:47] <palowoda> If you id is exposed the NSA will come and get you.
[13:34:12] <timeless> tsp: atm they're still taking it out for a spin
[13:34:12] <tsp> heh
[13:34:24] <timeless> i suspect there will be a migration once it's finalized
[13:34:32] <timeless> although that hasn't been discussed yet
[13:34:41] <commander> hi @ all, is it possible to run linux games under solaris, which are only available as binary using brandz or lxrun?
[13:34:46] <timeless> and i shouldn't say that it's a done deal, because i have lost track of the process
[13:34:52] <tsp> the only bug I really care about atm is 6597979 - it's been dispatched for ages now :)
[13:34:59] <timeless> commander: if the game runs on kernel 2.4 ...
[13:35:02] <jpdrawneek> commander: yes seem quake3
[13:35:15] <palowoda> commander: get real run games under MS and get over it.
[13:35:37] <commander> jpdrawneek: well quake3 is avaialable as source code and there is solaris port, but for e.g ut2004 there isn't one :)
[13:35:39] <jpdrawneek> or Wii !
[13:35:59] <jpdrawneek> commander: that was before the solaris port
[13:36:24] <commander> jpdrawneek: oh hmm interesting, thx so far
[13:37:19] <palowoda> I like compter games but it's just not a factor in Solaris.  It's a hardware issue.
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[13:37:52] <palowoda> Buy another system.
[13:37:57] <commander> well its intel hardware anyway
[13:38:10] <palowoda> Ok buy another system.
[13:38:18] <commander> rofl k send money and i will :)
[13:38:28] <jpdrawneek> buy a Wii there great!
[13:38:38] <palowoda> I keep telling people to send me the PO.
[13:39:58] <Tempt> jpdrawneek: Wii is great. Pity the games aren't.
[13:40:13] <jpdrawneek> the games are ok
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[13:43:31] <trochej> PO?
[13:43:44] <palowoda> Purchase Order.
[13:44:11] <trochej> Oh
[13:44:22] <sommerfeld> meem's father designed the accelerometer inside the Wii controller
[13:45:21] <palowoda> Scary to look at the gaming industry revenues these days.
[13:46:28] <palowoda> Friggen kids aren't watching TV anymore.
[13:47:10] <sommerfeld> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFoyp71xw3w (PS3 vs Wii)
[13:48:21] <Cyrille> given what's on regular tv, one can hardly blame them...
[13:48:41] <Gekz> yay reality tv
[13:48:59] <Gekz> you can go outside and watch grass grow
[13:49:08] <Gekz> its got higher ratings.
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[13:51:41] <palowoda> Hmm youtube makes billions on linux selling video about gaming machines on some sort of OS.  I'm impressed.
[13:51:56] <asyd> makes billions?
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[13:52:07] <asyd> how youtube makes money?
[13:52:39] <Gekz> youtube# is yet to pull a profit
[13:52:40] <Gekz> ...
[13:52:47] <palowoda> I forgot who is the CEO of youtube?
[13:52:52] <palowoda> Now?
[13:53:37] <asyd> I really want to know how sites like youtube dailymotion etc makes money
[13:53:59] <Gekz> they dont!
[13:54:03] <palowoda> They have CEO's that come from reasonable companies.
[13:54:06] <Gekz> they run at a deficity
[13:54:13] <asyd> ok, that's what I thought
[13:54:22] <palowoda> Exception the stock price.
[13:54:24] <Gekz> lol rm y.
[13:54:31] <asyd> founders just want to resell the company, and that works :)
[13:55:03] <PerterB> Standard dotcom business model.  Step 1, give lots of stuff away and drive traffic to the site.  Step 2. Hope that somehow this magically generates a profit... If not, sell the site on to some large gullible corporation
[13:55:03] <palowoda> History lesson today folks.
[13:55:27] <asyd> PerterB: I think you miss the "2.0" after dotcom :p
[13:55:29] <kjetilho> ads do make money
[13:55:38] <Downix> PerterB:  It's like the Underwear Gnomes.
[13:55:45] <kjetilho> to be relevant, an ad network needs to be as big as possible
[13:55:47] <PerterB> asyd: it was the same in 1.0 too :)
[13:55:55] <Gekz> kjetilho: not enough to cover bandwidth use
[13:56:00] <PerterB> um... Underwear Gnomes?
[13:56:05] <asyd> PerterB: right
[13:56:07] <kjetilho> witness how much money Microsoft paid to Facebook
[13:56:14] <sommerfeld> PerterB: south park reference.
[13:56:21] <PerterB> oh right
[13:56:33] <Downix> PerterB:  Right.  The Underwear Gnomes.  They run around stealing underwear for their master plan, which is in three steps:  Step 1) steal Underwear.  Step 3) Profit!
[13:56:36] <sommerfeld> business plan: 1) steal underwear.  2) ... (lost) ...   3) profit!
[13:56:36] <kjetilho> Gekz: oh, but as long as it's not too much of a hole, you can still benefit
[13:56:41] <palowoda> A thousand shares of Google or a thousand shares of MS>
[13:56:57] <Gekz> 1000 of amazon.
[13:56:59] <Gekz> lol
[13:57:19] <palowoda> What is the difference
[13:57:20] <kjetilho> I prefer a thousand shares in Berkshire Hathaway
[13:57:57] <palowoda> I don't think Hathaway ever invested in technology.
[13:57:58] <Gekz> Linux is on the nasdaq
[13:58:48] <palowoda> Of coase See's candy and coke should fatten you up.
[13:58:54] <sommerfeld> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCZaKSko5I8
[13:59:04] <sommerfeld> (underpants gnomes segment)
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[13:59:43] <hacxman> greetings
[14:00:07] <PerterB> talking of Hathaway... Buffett is complaining he's not being taxed enough: http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,,2202020,00.html
[14:00:39] <PerterB> sommerfeld: ta, already found the stills on wikipedia and remembered I've actually seen that episode
[14:00:52] <hacxman> I have trouble setting PATH variable (I'm from linux world ;)
[14:01:16] <hacxman> using nevada b65
[14:01:46] <jmcp> hacxman: what are you typing in, and what error do you get?
[14:01:51] <PerterB> you might want to skim the manpage for whichever shell you're using then
[14:02:03] <ceri> and what does "ps -p $$" say?
[14:02:16] <jmcp> hacxman: root's shell on Solaris is *not* bash
[14:02:21] <jmcp> it's traditional Bourne shell /sbin/sh
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[14:03:45] <logic> [3~
[14:03:53] <logic> oops typo, sorry
[14:04:18] <hacxman> I have switched to bash, so I wrote into /root/.bashrc export PATH="$PATH:/usr/local/bin/"
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[14:04:37] <tenex> eh, messing with bash for root
[14:04:50] * jmcp shudders
[14:05:01] <hacxman> so, it's not good idea? ;)
[14:05:02] <kjetilho> it's fine in Solaris 10
[14:05:07] <kjetilho> don't worry.
[14:05:10] <tenex> it's "fine" but not necessarily sane
[14:05:18] <tenex> it's only "fine" because sh is no longer statically-linked
[14:05:18] <jmcp> hacxman: it's not recommended
[14:05:28] <tenex> but it isn't necessarily "sane"
[14:05:29] <palowoda> In otherwords don't screw with the root account.
[14:06:07] <tenex> anyway, you shouldn't be spending enough time in root to make it matter ;)
[14:06:19] <tenex> go with sh, it's the best choice for root on solaris, period
[14:06:34] <hacxman> ok, switching back to sh
[14:07:15] <jmcp> in which case your PATH statement would be       PATH=$PATH:/usr/local/bin ; export PATH
[14:07:26] <stoxx> ok, here's my next one.
[14:07:38] <stoxx> complaints about not being able to fsck root fs
[14:07:59] <ceri> But it probably doesn't work because root's home directory is /, not /root, by default
[14:08:05] <stoxx> which is understandable as /dev/dsk/c1t0* doesn't exist
[14:08:39] <stoxx> boot with -r doesn't create it - probably because fsck should run first
[14:08:49] <stoxx> so am i in a deadlock?
[14:09:13] <palowoda> stoxx: How did you get in that situation?
[14:09:20] <ceri> Anything in /devices?  You could maybe fsck that if you know where it is
[14:09:22] <stoxx> fsck /devices/pci.../disk@0,0 doesnt like me
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[14:09:42] <stoxx> palowoda: i got here by moving root disk from t1 to t0
[14:09:58] <palowoda> stoxx: Why?
[14:09:59] <jmcp> stoxx: run "format < /dev/null" and see what disks are found
[14:10:02] <stoxx> next episode will be moving it from c1 to c0
[14:10:21] <tsoome> fsck is for ufs file system repair. if you dont have device file, its problem layers below any file system
[14:10:39] <stoxx> jmcp: format doesn't see c1t0
[14:10:46] <stoxx> only c1t[1-7]
[14:10:52] <stoxx> (that were present earlier)
[14:11:03] <palowoda> Solaris isn't friendly when moving the root partition to a different device.
[14:11:08] <jmcp> stoxx: what does /etc/vfstab think should be mounted as /
[14:11:19] <stoxx> jmcp: c1t0d0s0
[14:11:40] <stoxx> palowoda: so i should reinstall whenever i reconfigure controllers?
[14:11:43] <tsoome> you have booted from nw/cd/dvd?
[14:11:43] <jmcp> so type "mount" and look at the physical that it's got mounted for /
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[14:11:52] <hacxman> so, if I wanted to set PATH system wide, where should I set it ?
[14:12:05] <jmcp> stoxx: no need for re-install but you need to know what you're futzing with and how to do so correcly
[14:12:10] <jmcp> hacxman: in /etc/profile
[14:12:12] <stoxx> jmcp: mount lists pci*/disk@0,0:a
[14:12:14] <jmcp> or etc/login
[14:12:21] <tsoome> stoxx: no you dont have to reinstall
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[14:12:33] <stoxx> tsoome: i hope so..
[14:12:55] <jmcp> stoxx: do any of     /dev/dsk/c1*s0 match up pathwise with disk@0,0:a ?
[14:13:03] <tsoome> and controller path will only change if you move controller between the slots, but why you should ever do that?!
[14:13:06] <stoxx> jmcp: no.
[14:13:18] <stoxx> jmcp: c1t0 is missing from dev/dsk
[14:13:24] <jmcp> ow
[14:13:27] <jmcp> run "iostat -En"
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[14:13:35] <jmcp> gday hile_
[14:13:41] <tsoome> check obvious things - cabling and power.
[14:13:57] <stoxx> tsoome: no it won\
[14:13:59] <hile_> morning jmcp
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[14:14:06] <stoxx> wont change after everything is set up
[14:14:22] <hacxman> thanks a lot
[14:14:25] <stoxx> this is exactly the reason why i
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[14:14:29] <sommerfeld> svm and zfs both can be used to allow for disk topology changes with less hassle
[14:14:45] <stoxx> i'm planning to use a separate PATA device for root
[14:14:56] <ceri> sommerfeld: not with root disks on x86 it would seem
[14:15:03] <jmcp> stoxx: so we need to figure out what your controller number is here
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[14:15:11] <tsoome> x86 is pain in the ass anyhow
[14:15:15] <jmcp> now iirc you mentioned that you moved the cable from port1 to port0, correct?
[14:15:17] <stoxx> zfs will host the data, but zfs root seems a bit complicated
[14:15:19] <stoxx> for now
[14:15:25] <jmcp> did your cd/dvd show up as c0t0d0 ?
[14:15:31] <stoxx> and the installer didn't ask about svm either..
[14:16:08] <stoxx> controller c1 is the sata controller. CD/DVD is not related
[14:16:14] <jmcp> correct, it doesn't
[14:16:22] <jmcp> stoxx: please bear with me here
[14:16:46] <stoxx> jmcp: right, what was it again?
[14:16:49] <jmcp> stoxx: do you have a /dev/cfg ?
[14:17:13] <stoxx> yes
[14:17:28] <jmcp> ok, cd to /dev/cfg and run "ls -l"
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[14:17:52] <jmcp> what device paths do you have there? do any match (ignoring the disk@0,0:a)  with your root device?
[14:17:54] <stoxx> [0-7] seem to point to correct paths
[14:18:02] <jmcp> not what I asked
[14:18:29] <stoxx> not?
[14:18:49] <jmcp> I asked::::      what device paths do you have there? do any match (ignoring the disk@0,0:a)  with your root device?
[14:18:58] <jmcp> please answer those 2 questions
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[14:19:03] <jmcp> I ask specific, targeted questions
[14:20:15] <stoxx> there are /dev/cfg/sata0/[0-7] links that point to /devices/pci at 0,0/pci dot ..@9:[0-7]
[14:20:40] <stoxx> and @9:0 should be the root device if i understand what this all means
[14:21:01] <stoxx> _slightly_ confused about :a @0 :0 and others
[14:21:25] <tsoome> perhaps you should learn some bits before gettin on root prompt?
[14:21:38] <tsoome> there is docs.sun.com with loads of manuals
[14:21:45] <jmcp> tsoome: stoxx needs to rejig /etc/vfstab due to swaptronics
[14:22:01] <jmcp> stoxx: you said that when you run "mount" you see / as mounted on pci@....../disk@0,0:a
[14:22:24] <stoxx> tsoome: or perhaps i should just wait for zfs in an operating system i already know my way around? right..
[14:22:35] <stoxx> jmcp: correct
[14:22:38] <jmcp> stoxx: coolit, we're making progress
[14:22:41] <jmcp> ok, so ....
[14:22:42] <tsoome> sometimes its safer to stick with windows....
[14:22:44] <tsoome> :P
[14:22:45] * jmcp thinks for a sec
[14:23:03] <jmcp> stoxx: how many disks do you have in this system?
[14:23:04] <stoxx> jmcp: my  understanding is that the problem is missing the dev/dsk link
[14:23:22] <jmcp> yes, and we're getting there
[14:23:34] <stoxx> 1 PATA at c0t0 and 8 SATA on c1
[14:23:35] <jmcp> I still don't have a clear picture of the internals of your system, so you'll have to bear with me
[14:23:42] <jmcp> ahb
[14:23:49] <tsoome> anyhow. if root device is messed up, boot from alternative media, check device paths, rebuild the paths on system root fs and fix vfstab
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[14:24:05] <jmcp> tsoome: THAT's WHAT WE ARE DOING !!!
[14:24:10] <stoxx> :
[14:24:11] <tsoome> ;)
[14:24:11] <jmcp> shutup ffs
[14:24:11] <stoxx> :D
[14:24:20] <ceri> lol
[14:24:21] <jmcp> stoxx: which one of those is your rootdisk?
[14:24:30] <stoxx> first SATA
[14:24:35] <stoxx> c1t0
[14:24:46] <stoxx> it used to be c1t1 and c1t0 used to be empty
[14:24:57] <jmcp> ok
[14:25:10] <stoxx> but then i added the 8th disk..
[14:25:25] <jmcp> where did you add it?
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[14:26:22] <jmcp> stoxx: try mount -o remount,rw /devices/pci@...disk@0,0:a /
[14:26:35] <jmcp> substituting the correct device path
[14:28:23] <stoxx> jmcp: succesful
[14:28:36] <stoxx> (wonder what i did wrong when i attempted that myself..)
[14:29:19] <jmcp> perhaps you omitted the "remount" ?
[14:29:29] <jmcp> ok, now run    devfsadm -v
[14:30:24] <nachox> morning
[14:30:34] <jmcp> hi nachox
[14:30:50] <dclarke> morning people
[14:31:27] <jmcp> hi dclarke
[14:31:35] <nachox> zfs send dclarke
[14:31:36] <jmcp> stoxx: what has devfsadm printed for you?
[14:31:37] <nachox>  :)
[14:31:43] <stoxx> no i think i mistyped the device path
[14:31:57] <dclarke> better do a ZFS import first
[14:32:04] * dclarke looks for coffee
[14:32:58] <stoxx> i accidentally ran devfsadm with no arguments
[14:33:09] <stoxx> it said nothing but /dev/dsk/c1t0* appeared :D
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[14:33:37] <dclarke> mind if I ask a question .. a bit off topic ?
[14:33:42] <seanmcg> stoxx: devfsadm -Cv to repopulate the device tree
[14:33:57] <dclarke> no .. never mind
[14:34:07] <jmcp> seanmcg: the -C cleans non-existent device links though, so it's not always a good idea :)
[14:34:23] <jmcp> stoxx: ok, so did you edit /etc/vfstab ?
[14:34:40] <stoxx> ages ago
[14:34:51] <stoxx> it points to c1t0 now
[14:34:58] <jmcp> coll
[14:34:59] <jmcp> cool
[14:35:04] <jmcp> re-run /sbin/bootadm update-archive
[14:35:16] <jmcp> then reboot
[14:35:21] <stoxx> already there..
[14:35:24] <nachox> dclarke: come on, ask, suspense is killing me
[14:36:08] <dclarke> do you really want to know ?
[14:36:22] <trochej> dclarke: Did you get the new version of Solaris install howto?
[14:36:31] <nachox> sure
[14:36:43] <jmcp> stoxx: it took a while to get to this point, but I couldn't make assumptions about your config - I really didn't want to leave you with a thoroughly screwed up system
[14:36:52] <dclarke> trochej: you mean the one I am working on ?
[14:37:10] <stoxx> jmcp: that's ok
[14:37:11] <dclarke> trochej: I'll get that done .. eventually
[14:37:37] <stoxx> i still dont really understand all the /devices/ paths and their differences
[14:38:05] <trochej> dclarke: I still want to translate it :)
[14:38:08] <jmcp> stoxx: once you're up and running, investigate the output from "prtconf -v" and "prtpicl -v"
[14:38:09] <sommerfeld> the /devices paths reflect the hardware topology.
[14:38:25] <jmcp> those 2 cmds will help you get a handle on the kernel's concept of what hw is installed in your system
[14:40:44] <logic> fuzzy: i got it working , at least, i found an amd kernel, and got an init working, but "xm create" didnt work (was in youre wiki), i did xm new
[14:40:55] <dclarke> nachox: well .. here is the issue on my mind.  The Blastwave project just past into year 6 now and in all that time I have run two "donation drives" to keep it well funded. They were both quite successful in that the first one resulted in about $6000 for the project and the other resulted in about $2000.
[14:41:05] <logic> fuzzy: xm list gives me: debian.3-1 :D
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[14:41:28] <logic> fuzzy: i used: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/edgy/amd64/xen-image-xen0-2.6.17-6-generic-xen0/2.6.17-6 as resource
[14:41:37] <dclarke> I am looking at the stats and the usual month to month stuff ... looks like another biggie
[14:41:50] <dclarke> I just bought some 72GB SCSI disks
[14:42:11] <dclarke> oh .. to hell with it
[14:42:20] <stoxx> ah so it's disk@<target>,0:<slice>
[14:42:26] <sommerfeld> what are now tiny disks
[14:42:27] <dclarke> I was thinking of posting a "donation drive" thing on the home page
[14:42:33] <stoxx> and everything else is just decoys :D
[14:42:41] <dclarke> but .. why bother ..
[14:42:51] <jafari> hello good morning everybody, i am having major issue with solaris 8/07 release ever since i upgraded from 6/07 and this is a fresh install, i configured NAT/IPFilter on solaris 8/07, my internet is sharing between hosts on my lan but it seem to be dropping packets, if i try to connect to an irc server,IM, or xbox Live it drops my connection a little after 2 minutes
[14:42:51] <Tempt> dclarke: Don't think you'll get any donations?
[14:43:06] <dclarke> I'm sort of stuck looking at the situation and looking at another year .. and wondering
[14:43:16] <timsf> (I donated before - have a lovely DVD with a solar photo on it as a result)
[14:43:27] <dclarke> timsf : thanks man
[14:43:31] <timsf> :-)
[14:43:45] <dclarke> truth is .. the DVD thing is a horrible disaster over the past year and I have to fix that
[14:43:58] <dclarke> I had an external company to do the work and .. never again
[14:43:59] <jafari> i know pfil is deprecated, i wanted to know if there anything i can do to fix thsi connection issue im having?
[14:44:02] <timsf> (this was a while back admittedly)
[14:44:03] <dclarke> the lost or dropped orders
[14:44:14] <dclarke> and there was only maybe eight to ten a month
[14:44:22] <dclarke> that was the real issue .. volume is nothing
[14:44:36] <dclarke> also .. if I do it myself then each DVD gets done right .. by hand
[14:44:42] <timsf> Is bandwidth the biggest cost ? Could putting blastwave on bittorrent help - or get into universities or somesuch ?
[14:44:49] <dclarke> not really anymore
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[14:45:08] <dclarke> the real issue is that the only corporate funding is from me .. always has been
[14:45:17] <dclarke> and that the servers in the rack .. a full rack now
[14:45:30] <dclarke> and the power etc etc .. runs about $750 a month for the hosting
[14:45:35] <jmcp> gnite all
[14:45:41] <stoxx> now for something completely different - i'm having trouble partitioning/slicing the PATA disk
[14:45:51] <stoxx> format says disk type unknown
[14:45:51] <dclarke> that is the cheapest .. but where I have it now is about $1000 a month .. flat rate
[14:45:58] <timsf> woah.
[14:46:02] <dclarke> then the bandwidth is on top of that
[14:46:47] <dclarke> so .. I never hid anything from anyone .. everyone that wants access to systems and needs stuff I do my best
[14:46:54] <dclarke> but .. look at this : http://www.blastwave.org/sitestats/
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[14:47:42] <dclarke> in order to function people *need* to login .. do software work on a standards controlled environment or the software dependecy nightmare would be a freakshow disaster
[14:47:51] <dclarke> so I have to control the configs of the machines
[14:48:03] <dclarke> so people need to move soure code in .. move it out
[14:48:05] <dclarke> do work ..
[14:48:12] <dclarke> post the packages to the main repository
[14:48:18] <dclarke> then rsyn nightly
[14:48:21] <dclarke> then rsync nightly
[14:48:28] <trygvis> that really isn't true, you don't need to do all the work on a single set of machines
[14:48:35] <dclarke> look at the software update list on the homepage today
[14:48:51] <dclarke> trygvis: you do if you comply with project standards
[14:48:56] <trygvis> not at all
[14:49:09] <dclarke> no one .. not me .. not anyone .. will trust software built externally and not tested
[14:49:10] <trygvis> look at all the linux distros, they don't depend on a single set of machines like blastwave do
[14:49:16] <trygvis> that is not what I said
[14:49:24] <trygvis> development != building
[14:49:27] <dclarke> ah ha .. but the linux distros distribute there sources generally also
[14:49:31] <trygvis> or releasing for that matter
[14:49:36] <dclarke> plus .. show me a distro .. name one
[14:49:41] <dclarke> like Red Hat ?
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[14:49:55] <trygvis> eh? how is distributing the source relevant?
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[14:49:57] <dclarke> you get binaries provided by them built by them
[14:50:07] <trygvis> again, building is not the same as development
[14:50:11] <dclarke> because then you the user can build the same binary on your machine
[14:50:24] <dclarke> oh .. I see the fundamental flaw here
[14:50:35] <dclarke> no no .. we don't do the development ( mostly ) we do the porting
[14:50:51] <dclarke> the source code must be the same as what you get in the sources from . .whereever
[14:51:11] <dclarke> we do the task of porting and ensuring that you get one dependecy stack in an isolated .. not in your OS area ..
[14:51:14] <trygvis> in this discussion development and porting is the same thing
[14:51:21] <dclarke> that is neither here nor there
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[14:51:34] <dclarke> go turn off the lights
[14:51:39] <trygvis> the point is that I (barely) can do porting at home, I *have* to log in to the boxes
[14:51:43] <dclarke> if you are working in an office
[14:51:46] <dclarke> go turn off the lights
[14:51:54] <dclarke> then discuss what you were doing .. in the dark
[14:51:59] <trygvis> eh?
[14:52:04] <dclarke> no one will debate the succes of the model we use
[14:52:11] <dclarke> your on the wrong track of thought
[14:52:19] <dclarke> and I need to kick you off it
[14:52:20] <trygvis> dude, are you even trying to see what I'm saying?
[14:52:30] <dclarke> no
[14:52:37] <dclarke> I don't need to
[14:52:39] <tenex> thus the problem with blastwave
[14:52:41] <dclarke> its not the topic
[14:52:44] <trygvis> because you are always right? nice ..
[14:52:48] <dclarke> no ..
[14:52:53] <dclarke> that is not the topic
[14:53:02] <tenex> the solution: sunfreeware, start contributing to keep it more updated because it's a better resource
[14:53:05] <tenex> period
[14:53:12] <dclarke> you discussing building/porting/development and distributed development models
[14:53:26] <dclarke> tenex .. your on my permanent forever ignor list
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[14:53:35] <tenex> thanks dclarke, you said that the other day
[14:53:40] <tenex> like i care
[14:53:52] <dclarke> I'm simply saying that a lot of organizations in the Solaris world .. they expect
[14:53:53] <tenex> blastwave is awful, try using a real compiler ;)
[14:54:05] <dclarke> to get a working binary stack and they even expect it on hard media
[14:54:15] <dclarke> we use Sun Studio 8 and 11 and 12
[14:54:24] <tenex> that's rich
[14:54:25] * dclarke slaps self
[14:54:37] <dclarke> okay .. this is why I don't bring it up
[14:54:50] <dclarke> people start .. as usual .. discussing the business operation as opposed to the issue
[14:55:07] <dclarke> also .. this is why I sit on the board of directors for two corporations up here
[14:55:09] <tenex> the issue is blastwave makes too many assumptions for sane usage
[14:55:13] <dclarke> and I can spot the *real* issue
[14:55:17] <tenex> and you're the epitomy of that
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[14:55:30] <tenex> you don't want to listen, you just want to pontificate, it's crap
[14:55:38] <dclarke> right .. thank you tenex .. your contributiuons to the community for the past decade are noted
[14:55:41] <kjetilho> dclarke: what is the real issue?
[14:55:47] <hacxman> oh, I have another question, I have some troubles with keyboard, I think the problem is with keyboard layout
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[14:56:05] <dclarke> kjetilho: the real issue is that we are going into phase two of opertions
[14:56:15] <kjetilho> trygvis: can't you set up an environment at home to work in, then send the completed spec-file to Blastwave to build in a controlled environment?
[14:56:30] <dclarke> kjetilho: phase two being that we contiue Solaris 8 support until end of the extended support phase at Sun ..
[14:56:34] <dclarke> until March 2009
[14:56:52] <trygvis> kjetilho: no, because only a few bits of the build system is packaged
[14:56:56] <dclarke> at the same time we get the external software repo going that supports Indiana
[14:57:00] <dclarke> and Solaris 10
[14:57:16] <trygvis> I can do a bit of it at home, but then I have to upload, build it and try it at home
[14:57:18] <kjetilho> trygvis: oh, that should be fixed.
[14:57:22] <dclarke> so then .. this is like Napoleon fighting a war on two fronts
[14:57:26] <dclarke> or perhaps Hitler
[14:57:31] <trygvis> kjetilho: indeed
[14:57:38] <dclarke> in any case .. you just don't do that
[14:57:59] <timsf> What percentage of your users require stuff that runs on Solaris 8 ?
[14:58:06] <Tempt> dclarke: Well, the community needs blastwave, because there isn't another option
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[14:58:08] <dclarke> there needs to be a more unified way to do things from a community perspective and not *everythng* lives behind the Sun firewalls
[14:58:16] <Tempt> dclarke: so perhaps Sun should cough up something
[14:58:21] <dclarke> Tempt: but it needs to be better
[14:58:25] <tenex> the community needs a better solution
[14:58:29] <Tempt> dclarke: Apparently they've coughed up for sunfreeware (blerk) in the past
[14:58:37] <dclarke> it needs a serious refresh in thought and delivery
[14:58:40] <Tempt> dclarke: and I wouldn't use their packages in a pink fucking fit
[14:58:41] <hacxman> how can I switch to console from X ?
[14:58:57] <dclarke> Tempt: a pink ?  cool .. let me write that down
[14:59:12] <timsf> haxman, there's an option on dtlogin to get a command line login
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[14:59:19] <timsf> or if you're using gdm, erm, there isn't.
[14:59:25] <trochej> Fok, did I mention how much I hate building debs?
[14:59:26] <trochej> :/
[14:59:30] <timsf>  (svcadm disable gdm, until virtual console come along)
[14:59:33] <dclarke> in any case .. we .. and I mean myself, Phil Brown, Cory Omand , James Lee .. and a few others that work every every day on this .. we look carefully at the software
[14:59:46] <dclarke> we really do look into it and we try to control quality while pushing volume
[14:59:50] <Tempt> and I think the sol8 build target is still useful
[14:59:54] <timsf> haxman, what's your keyboard problem ?
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[14:59:57] <dclarke> that is always a good thign in any business process
[14:59:59] <Tempt> since 10 builds really don't work on 8/9
[15:00:21] <dclarke> Tempt : and my stats show a LOT of Solaris users out there on Solaris 8 still
[15:00:29] <Tempt> how many meg/day of traffic are you doing?
[15:00:32] <dclarke> its a dropping number .. but the holdouts are corporate
[15:00:33] <hacxman> timsf: so, there is nothing like Crtl-Alt-F1 in linux or bsd ?
[15:00:41] <dclarke> like Verizon and the US Gov
[15:00:49] <dclarke> and Wall Street
[15:00:53] <dclarke> they are all big users
[15:00:57] <timsf> haxman, Not yet - it's getting there - that's the virtual console project
[15:01:03] <Tempt> dclarke: and telcos, and oracle 8/9 environments, and ...
[15:01:15] <dclarke> anyways .. I was going to put up a CMS like Joomla for the community
[15:01:16] <timsf> (I say not yet, this was in Solaris 2.3 (or something) but it went away)
[15:01:21] <dclarke> it won't be hosted at Sun.com
[15:01:23] <Tempt> dclarke: i'm still seeing Sol9 as the dominant platform for critical environments.
[15:01:37] <dclarke> Tempt : me too .. its out there
[15:01:40] <Tempt> dclarke: As I was asking, how much traffic are you doing? /msg me if you don't want it public.
[15:01:41] <dclarke> big time
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[15:01:51] <timsf> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/vconsole
[15:01:52] <dclarke> hold on .. let me get a rough number
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[15:02:09] <dclarke> pushing 100GB a month and rising
[15:02:30] <dclarke> I upped the bandwidth to dual 10Mbit/sec lines
[15:02:43] <Tempt> taking to /msg
[15:02:52] <dclarke> okay ..
[15:03:00] <hacxman> timsf: nice ;) it seems that some keys are not working, ie. alt, I think it has something with layout
[15:03:51] <timsf> okay, you can set your layout manually in /etc/X11/xorg.conf (I'm assuming you're on an x86 box ?)
[15:04:15] <hacxman> timsf: yes, I'm on x86
[15:04:21] <timsf> Or grab a binary of setxkbmap from http://blogs.sun.com/timf/date/20050423
[15:04:27] <timsf> (wish we shipped that)
[15:04:37] <hacxman> :)
[15:05:11] <stoxx> .. so anyone want to clue me in on format and "disk type unknown"
[15:05:39] <hacxman> ou, yeah, some another issue showed up, xorgconfig didn't write complete xorg.conf
[15:06:08] <hacxman> it crashed with segfault
[15:06:13] <timsf> is there a .xorg.conf in /etc/X11 ?
[15:06:37] <hacxman> yes, there is
[15:06:38] <timsf>  besides, Xorg --configure I thought was the accepted way to go about it ? It's got rather good at autodetection recently
[15:06:51] <timsf>  ([dot]xorg.conf ?(
[15:06:53] <timsf> )
[15:07:17] <tsp> dclarke: it would save alot of bandwidth, at least for me, if pkg-get -d saved all of the packages not just the last one :)
[15:07:24] <hacxman> yes, there is /etc/X11/.xorg.conf
[15:07:30] <tsp> or is it the first one, forgot - whatever it saves, it sucks
[15:07:33] <hacxman> and it seem complete
[15:07:52] <timsf> okay, so mv /etc/X11/.xorg.conf /etc/X11/xorg.conf and go to town setting the keyboard layout
[15:08:08] <dclarke> tsp : check the /opt/csw/etc/pkg-get.conf .. there is a cache option there
[15:08:14] <dclarke> tsp : it will save everything
[15:08:53] <nachox> dclarke: indiana and solaris 10 will use different packages, you might need to keep separate trees there too right?
[15:08:57] <trs80> dclarke: do you think indiana will put an end to having four or more community build systems? pmpkg, blastwave, SFE and sunfreeware
[15:09:35] <dclarke> nachox : we migtated 1600 packages to the Indiana system last week
[15:09:59] <tsp> dclarke: thanks, that'll help alot
[15:10:04] <dclarke> trs80 : ultimately there will be repositories all over the place
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[15:10:14] <dclarke> but none for Solarsi 8 or 9 users
[15:10:27] <nachox> dclarke: nice, is there an automated way to do it?
[15:10:38] <Tempt> oh, and tenex? You're a dickhead.
[15:10:43] <dclarke> nachox : automated .. not yet
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[15:10:50] <dclarke> heck .. Indiana is not released yet
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[15:11:03] <tenex> Tempt: kiss my ass, my opinion is blastwave is rubbish, you aren't the gestapo so mind your business
[15:11:11] <trs80> dclarke: mm, but will blastwave stop building its own versions of packages that are in indiana?
[15:11:35] <dclarke> no .. we stay with Solaris 8 built packages and use the ABI .. until March 2009
[15:11:54] <Tempt> tenex: Provide reasons or STFU, basically. You're making noise, not signal.
[15:11:57] <dclarke> we also .. in addition .. this is the war on two fronts .. we also release software via a Indiana style repository
[15:12:08] <dclarke> I already backported the IPS software to S10u4 : http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/SUNWipkg/30_Oct_2007_CSWipkg.txt
[15:12:14] <tenex> Tempt: if you want to give me a reach-around, do it in private
[15:12:28] <kjetilho> Tempt: not making packages specifically for Solaris 10 is a big problem
[15:12:31] <nachox> Tempt: there is no need to insult him, just ignore him or pester him in a pm
[15:13:00] <kjetilho> you get a lot of duplication of libraries and confusion of versions
[15:13:11] <dclarke> the migration to make . .slowly .. is to build a package .. test it .. then fter QA we drop it into the catalog and the IPS repository at the same time
[15:13:27] <dclarke> that way the user can get it for Solaris 8 or 9 or 10 as well as via pkg
[15:13:30] <dclarke> makes sense ?
[15:14:00] <dclarke> oh .. and we don't have to reinvent the damn wheel .. Ian Murdock and I talked about that at length
[15:14:38] <stoxx> where do i enlist for indiana testing? :D
[15:14:55] <dclarke> stoxx : after its released
[15:15:11] <stoxx> so thats around 2017 then?
[15:15:26] <dclarke> ha ha .. no ..
[15:15:34] <stoxx> next week?
[15:15:35] <dclarke> think the next 24 hours .. or so
[15:15:42] <hacxman> timsf: thanks a lot
[15:15:45] <stoxx> this year?
[15:15:56] <timsf> Glad to be of service!
[15:16:04] <hacxman> :)
[15:16:06] <stoxx> 24 hours? for real?
[15:16:23] <dclarke> I started working with some Sunny people two weeks ago on the back port and the migration of the blastwave packages
[15:16:23] <timsf> Probably less than that, but yeah..
[15:16:24] <hacxman> i'm going to try new config
[15:16:29] <hacxman> b
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[15:16:34] <nachox> 24 hours?!
[15:16:39] <tenex> oh good, you can get GNU/Solaris in the next 24 hours :(
[15:16:46] <timsf> We said October, didn't we ? :-)
[15:16:50] <dclarke> you did
[15:16:51] <tenex> j/k
[15:17:05] <dclarke> timsf : where are you located ?
[15:17:11] <timsf> Ireland
[15:17:17] <dclarke> timsf : not in Guam ?  :-)
[15:17:28] <dclarke> that is a bit of a funny that one
[15:17:33] <dclarke> in any case ..
[15:17:45] <timsf> I'm really just an interested onlooker on Indiana at the moment - but I know the guys have been working *really* hard on this. Big ups to all involved!
[15:17:53] <dclarke> the idea is to have an OS distro that can be worked on by lots of people and it .. becomes like Fedora Core in my mind
[15:18:06] <dclarke> but .. there should be no reason to reinvent the bloody wheel
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[15:18:24] <dclarke> timsf : its a huge task
[15:18:30] * timsf nods
[15:18:34] <seanmcg> is there many distros spun from fedora core ? (other than redhat / centos )
[15:18:40] <seanmcg> s/is/are/
[15:18:43] <dclarke> and I'm just an external guy .. so Danek Duvall and guys are working around the clock
[15:18:53] <stoxx> (fedora core might be nice but it's not debian so..)
[15:18:56] <Tempt> getting "Target did not send AuthMethod key during security negotiation phase." from Windows XP trying to mount an iSCSI LUN from Solaris.
[15:18:59] <Tempt> Any suggestions?
[15:20:31] <nachox> timsf: releasing indiana in halloween is intentional?
[15:20:49] <timsf> Hey, ZFS integrated on Halloween too - it's a special date :-)
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[15:21:48] <stoxx> so what is released, when and where?
[15:22:01] <stoxx> am i wasting my time trying to learn sxce :D
[15:22:27] <nachox> timsf: the hell with calling indiana Opensolaris, just call it halloween :)
[15:22:39] <timsf> Nothing yet, hopefully soon, but no - definitely not wasting your time learning sxce
[15:23:09] <timsf> heh
[15:24:29] <nachox> timsf: i'm guessing you dont know what packages will be released in indiana right?
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[15:24:42] <nachox> as in, will we have jds?
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[15:25:17] <timsf> Not really - it's all new to me, but what I've seen, GNOME is there (and looking gorgeous)
[15:25:59] <nachox> as usual, the jds guys know what they are doing
[15:26:00] <jteo> timsf: ;)
[15:26:18] <Tempt> I wonder if Indiana will be released for SPARC at the same time
[15:26:42] * dclarke thinks "if I have anything to say about it"
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[15:27:04] <dclarke> Sparc should be .. but we still do not have GRUB or GRUB2 for Sparc
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[15:27:18] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o Gman
[15:27:30] <timsf> there - go ask him __^
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[15:28:05] * nachox stabs Gman and drags the body out of sight
[15:28:33] <alanc> no JDS in Indiana, but you get almost the same GNOME bits, just without the Java logos/trademarks
[15:28:42] <Gman> nachox: does that mean i get more or less sleep? :)
[15:29:20] <nachox> Gman: it's for your own benefit, they were going to start asking questions about indiana :P
[15:31:40] <jteo> alanc: that's a good thing. ;)
[15:32:12] <alanc> and the answer to Tempt's question is "Not for the preview/prototype/proof-of-concept being released later today" - x86 now, SPARC later
[15:32:37] * timsf figures he should get back to nb-sparc testing in that case!
[15:34:11] <trochej> timsf: ZFS integreated to what? :)
[15:34:29] <timsf> Went back to Nevada in 2005 on Halloween
[15:34:37] <timsf> cf. Jeff's "Boo!" post
[15:34:49] <trochej> ok
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[15:34:54] <Gman> timsf: happy birthday btw :)
[15:34:55] <timsf> http://blogs.sun.com/bonwick/entry/zfs_the_last_word_in
[15:34:57] <timsf> Thanks Gman!
[15:35:11] <timsf> (all the good stuff happens on Halloween!)
[15:35:33] * nachox pass timsf some cake
[15:35:34] <elektronkind> zfs is 2 years old (yay)
[15:35:51] <timsf> ZFS is like the Queen, it has many birthdays...
[15:36:44] <elektronkind> 6839023 RFE: ZFS must wave its hand in the same manner as QE2
[15:38:51] <trochej> :)
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[15:39:08] * timsf enjoys caik - thanks nachox
[15:40:19] <jteo> wb jmcp
[15:40:21] <nachox> Gman: would you delay indiana till tomorrow please? :P
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[15:40:51] <Tempt> grub and sparc in the same sentence
[15:40:55] <Tempt> the horrors, the horrors
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[15:41:31] <timsf> Grub isn't the plan Tempt - more at http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/caselog/2006/525
[15:41:32] <trochej> Wow
[15:41:43] <trochej> MacMini with 2GB ram simply sucks
[15:41:52] <Tempt> timsf: Oh, I know. It'll be just as awful.
[15:42:08] * Tempt mutters something about preferring an OBP upgrade to a nightmare
[15:42:21] <timsf> there there...
[15:42:24] <timsf> it'll be alright
[15:42:46] <ceri> Why would we want commonality with x86 when the boot process there sucks so bad?
[15:43:35] <ceri> never mind, I guess I need to read this ARC case before I say anything else...
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[15:47:26] <tsp> trochej: is it that bad?
[15:47:30] <tsp> trochej: the mac mini that is
[15:48:36] <trochej> tsp: I have better experience with my home laptop, which ought to be really comparable
[15:48:47] <trochej> tsp: It may be the fact that at home I use OS
[15:48:51] <trochej> And Here OS X :)
[15:49:11] <tsp> ah
[15:50:12] <trochej> I just cant get around the OS X
[15:50:13] <trochej> It's too..
[15:50:22] <trochej> too blingy, or whatever word to use
[15:50:31] <trochej> I miss the simplicity
[15:50:44] <trochej> The moment I get the chance I change the OS here
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[15:57:07] <trochej> I think that really I miss mostly desktops
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[15:58:19] <cub-> any SAN expert around ? :P
[16:00:40] <cub-> I have a 3510 connected to v440 via a FC switch.  There is zoning done by Sun engineer a while back for the SAN luns so that one lun is visible to machine 1 and the other lun is available to the machine 2.  The SAN has been recently reformatted so that there is only one lun, machine 2 has been disconnected to the fc switch.  However when I go to the machine 1, I still only see the capacity of the former lun 1.
[16:01:40] <cub-> is this because the OS still remembers the old lun info ?
[16:01:49] <cub-> i did "devfsadm Cv"
[16:01:50] <nachox> timsf: sparc will have a boot_archive?
[16:02:01] <timsf> nachox, yep.
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[16:02:07] <ceri> Hmm, this is going to suck.
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[16:02:15] <carbon60> Hello all.
[16:02:36] <carbon60> I'm in dire need of a decent ffmpeg build for Solaris that I can use under the hood of a webapp.
[16:02:46] <carbon60> I'm having a tough time building it though. :-(
[16:02:55] <carbon60> Anyone have binaries that might work?
[16:02:58] <nachox> timsf: hope it works better then in x86
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[16:03:08] <nachox> it's the source of much frustration there
[16:03:15] <elektronkind> cub- how are you verifying this (format?)
[16:03:23] <timsf> Looks nice so far, and it paves the way for ZFS root.
[16:03:24] <cub-> elektronkind: yes, via format
[16:03:50] <Gman> carbon60: blastwave.org has packages i believe, also SFE has build recipes (but no binary packages)
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[16:04:17] <ceri> I don't like it for all of the reasons that sommerfeld and james carson mentioned in the arc case
[16:04:19] <carbon60> Gman: the blastwave packages are really old and don't support more of the codecs I need. SFE?
[16:04:20] <cub-> elektronkind: it's probably the OS memory, but how do I clear it without rebooting?   I did 'devfsadm Cv"
[16:04:49] <cub-> cuz I don't think the zoning from the switch can control the capacity of the lun appearing in the server.
[16:04:55] <elektronkind> cub- if you go into format, select the disk and then partition and print, is the size reflected there?
[16:05:16] <cub-> elektronkind: yup, the size of the old partition table is all there....
[16:05:36] <elektronkind> cub- you can also try 'cfgadm -c configure <controller>'
[16:05:37] <Gman> carbon60: spec-files-extra - google it
[16:05:44] <cub-> oh ok
[16:05:47] <carbon60> Thanks Gman.
[16:05:58] <elektronkind> cub-: where <controller> is c2 or c<number> that the disk is off of
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[16:07:25] <elektronkind> cfgadm -c unconfigure <controller>::<disk> is another option, followed by a configure
[16:07:45] <elektronkind> however it's listed in the output of cfgadm -al
[16:09:55] <cub-> elektronkind: can you take a look at these output:   www.pastebin.ca/756487
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[16:11:10] <cub-> disk selection #7 under "format" is the one in question
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[16:11:59] <cub-> I dont' see "c6" listed under cfgadm -al, or should i see it at all?
[16:12:39] <ceri> c6 is pseudo controller from mpxio I believe
[16:14:04] <cub-> ceri: ahh thanks...so which c#  should I do  "cfgadm -c configure" for the OS to reflect the new lun config from the 3510?   Again, selection #7 under "format" is the one in question
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[16:15:43] <ceri> c2 is your connected HBA by the look of it, but the c2::256blah entry indicates that your disk is "unusable", do unconfigure/configure might be a good idea.  You don't care about the data, right?
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[16:16:42] <ceri> So to answer your question, c2::256blah
[16:17:16] <cub-> ceri: it says "disk" instead of fc-fabric, is this right ?
[16:17:25] <ceri> Yep
[16:17:42] <ceri> Although it is isn't really a disk
[16:18:13] <joe-root> hi
[16:18:14] <cub-> yeah i dont' care about data on it, but I do care about data on disk selection #6 under "format".
[16:18:25] <joe-root> i m looking for the same command on solaris
[16:18:26] <joe-root> iptables -t nat -A POSTROUTING -o eth1 -j MASQUERADE
[16:18:32] <ceri> ok, so hang on
[16:18:37] <cub-> which c# is it for selection #6 so I can avoid it ?
[16:18:38] <joe-root> don't know how to do that on solaris
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[16:18:52] <ceri> #6 is the old LUN, #7 is the new one, both on the same 3510?
[16:19:07] <trochej> joe-root: Look for ipfilter docs at freebsd.org
[16:19:26] <trochej> ok
[16:19:27] <trochej> [d]
[16:19:36] <joe-root> at least 20 docs i have read but already not sure
[16:19:51] <timsf> The IpFilter howto document is really good
[16:20:05] <timsf> http://www.obfuscation.org/ipf/
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[16:21:18] * nachox wonders how pattern matching works in the ksh extended test
[16:22:00] <cub-> ceri: no, #6 is on a separate 3510 that contains production data
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[16:22:21] <cub-> I want to avoid #6 which care
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[16:22:40] <cub-> #7 is on a separate SAN that I need to redo
[16:23:10] <ceri> ok, post unedited "cfgadm -al", since we only see one SAN there
[16:23:53] <cub-> ok, sure
[16:24:13] <trs80> timsf: is there a timeframe for psarc 2006/525 delivery?
[16:24:32] <timsf> these aren't the droids you're looking for
[16:24:35] <timsf> move along, move along
[16:24:51] <timsf> build 80 I think, but we're still in testing...
[16:24:58] <cub-> ceri:  http://www.pastebin.ca/756507
[16:25:01] <timsf> so that all could change...
[16:25:56] * trs80 nods
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[16:26:18] <timsf> It's starting to stabilise now though, so fingers crossed.
[16:26:51] <HarryR`Work> Anybody know the status of the big/little endian patch for the opensolaris ufs driver? (so I can access ufs slices created on a sparc machine on an x86 machine)
[16:27:14] <trs80> counting the weeks, that's "early 2008" :-)
[16:27:30] <timsf> I think it's called /usr/sbin/zfs
[16:27:33] <timsf>  yeah..
[16:28:09] * timsf grumbling abuot having to test nb-sparc cd booting
[16:28:14] <ceri> cub-: just a sec, got a call
[16:28:18] <cub-> ok
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[16:40:16] <ceri> cub:- ok, let's be paranoid.  "mpathadm list lu"
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[16:44:06] <Tempt> swear I found an iscsi target bug
[16:44:18] <ceri> Tempt: impossible :)
[16:44:37] <Tempt> got a truss to provide it and everything
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[16:57:44] <nachox> Tempt: report it and complain a lot more :)
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[17:06:57] * timeless ponders
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[17:09:46] <stevel> morning comay
[17:09:59] <timeless> hello world
[17:10:04] <comay> hey there stevel
[17:10:13] <timeless> stevel: you play w/ bugzilla a bit?
[17:10:22] * timeless has a few quesions
[17:10:27] <timeless> (and no working t key)
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[17:10:29] <stevel> timeless: yeah, we use it :) http://bugzilla.songbirdnest.com
[17:10:50] <timeless> stevel: how long is http://bugzilla.songbirdnest.com/quips.cgi?action=show
[17:11:08] * timeless doesn't feel like setting up an account to view it
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[17:11:34] <timeless> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/quips.cgi?action=show
[17:11:41] <stevel> 117 entries
[17:11:50] <timeless> anyway, it seems the osol people don't like zarro boogs
[17:12:01] <timeless> there are currently 0 quips, but quips seem enabled
[17:12:02] <stevel> that's a shame :) i always kinda liked it
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[17:12:22] <timeless> the question is, should they disable quips?
[17:12:35] <Gman> stevel: me too
[17:12:58] * Gman doesn't get why people are so angst against it
[17:13:01] <stevel> timeless: no way! quips rule.
[17:13:22] <z1pp1ty> hey all, I'm having some issues connecting to my OpenSolaris NFS server from Linux
[17:13:26] <stevel> but then again, if they're bothered by the non-seriousness of zarro bugs found, then they might not like quips i suppose
[17:13:35] <z1pp1ty> mount: 192.168.1.245:/vm failed, reason given by server: Permission denied
[17:13:44] <timeless> stevel: site default off?
[17:13:58] <flyingparchment> bugzilla :(
[17:14:09] <Gman> stevel: next time i'm over i'll bash that sense of humour of out you :)
[17:14:31] <stevel> timeless: yeah probably best to default to off. can individual users turn them on?
[17:14:44] <nachox> z1pp1ty: how are you exporting the filesystem?
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[17:14:53] <stevel> Gman: only if the indiana naming controversy hasn't crushed the soul and spirit out of me first :-P
[17:14:59] <Gman> heh
[17:15:16] <timsf> +1
[17:15:32] <z1pp1ty> nachox: http://pastebin.com/m409187ea
[17:16:18] <timeless> stevel: http://defect.opensolaris.org/bz/userprefs.cgi?tab=settings#display_quips
[17:16:29] <alanc> hmm, someone turned off the quips in the default settings on freedesktop.org bugzilla, but you can turn them back on in prefs - they're mostly quotes from #xorg-devel IRC
[17:17:17] <alanc> looks like there's 56
[17:17:27] <tsp> z1pp1ty: showmount -e solarisBoxIp from the linux box
[17:17:31] <flyingparchment> please don't tell me opensolaris is using bugzilla for its bug tracker?
[17:17:36] <tsp> and make sure the hosts and such are set right
[17:18:03] <z1pp1ty> tsp: it is listed
[17:18:16] <Gman> flyingparchment: it's a strong candidate
[17:18:21] <alanc> flyingparchment: so far it's the only system that's met the requirements - you have a better suggestion, submit it to the discussion on tools-discuss
[17:19:00] <z1pp1ty> tsp: http://pastebin.com/m4b2301a8, solaris box is .245, linux box is .17
[17:19:02] <stevel> nay. leading candidate at this point
[17:19:13] * tsp checks
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[17:20:09] <tsp> that sounds ok
[17:20:32] <z1pp1ty> there are a few different interfaces on the linux box, but i've shut down all but .17
[17:21:00] <flyingparchment> alanc: where is the requirements list?
[17:21:10] <z1pp1ty> what would sharenfs look like to give all hosts access?
[17:21:19] <tsp> not sure
[17:21:34] <tsp> hmm, I have a zfs pool over here. I can mount it as root, but only my user has access to it
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[17:21:53] <e^ipi> tsp: that's a security feature
[17:22:09] <e^ipi> set anon=0 to disable it
[17:22:12] <alanc> flyingparchment: I think http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/tools-discuss/2007-August/006830.html is the most recent
[17:23:02] <alanc> discussion of the systems looked at and how well they meet the requirements are also in the tools-discuss archive
[17:23:12] <alanc> (look for "DTS" for "Defect Tracking System")
[17:23:35] <flyingparchment> haha open source.. like there are any good  open source bug trackers ;)
[17:24:04] <tsp> oh, I was looking at root=
[17:24:56] <z1pp1ty> where does nfs log to?
[17:25:42] <tsp> if it logs at all, probably messages or syslog
[17:25:49] <flyingparchment> JIRA meets all of these requirements except being open source, and is a hell of a lot nicer than bugzilla
[17:26:46] <z1pp1ty> the permission denied message happens so quickly, it is almost like the linux box is failing locally
[17:26:47] <alanc> yeah, I was in favor of considering JIRA just because other parts of Sun are using it, so we might be able to share maintenance/admin resources, but the open source requirement was the deal breaker
[17:27:16] * timeless sighs
[17:27:33] <tsp> z1pp1ty: local networks are fast
[17:27:38] <timeless> alanc/flyingparchament: someday i want someone to explain what specific things they prefer about jira over bugzilla...
[17:27:40] <flyingparchment> alanc: well, with an enterprise license you can get the source.. i wonder what the actual reason for that requirement is
[17:27:41] <z1pp1ty> ;)
[17:27:53] <tsp> z1pp1ty: do you have portmap running on the linux box?
[17:28:01] <tsp> I assume you do, or it would probably just time out
[17:28:04] <z1pp1ty> yep
[17:28:11] <tsp> hmm, your mounting as root?
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[17:28:18] <z1pp1ty> yes
[17:28:25] <z1pp1ty> trying to at least :)
[17:28:39] <alanc> but we don't want to assume Sun will always be hosting the bug db, and would want to make it possible for someone else to do it in the future, without forcing them to pay license fees
[17:28:46] <flyingparchment> timeless: SSO integration, interface / usability, database backend support, customisation of workflow / issues / fields / permissions...,
[17:28:46] <tsp> what command are you running?
[17:29:06] <timeless> sorry, that's way too vague/hand-wavy
[17:29:32] <z1pp1ty> ok, I can mount an NFS share locally on the linux box so that doesn't seem to be the problem
[17:29:41] <timeless> too my knowledge bugzilla has an interface, can do sso, is usable, supports databases, can hav ecustomized workflow/issues/fields/permissions
[17:29:56] <Shiv_1> flyingparchment: Another point I believe was that project specific customizations,plugins,tool-integrations might be required, and having opensource dts helps.
[17:29:57] <flyingparchment> timeless: workflow customisation: you can define which steps an issue goes through (open, resolved, reopened...) and the transitions: resolve issue...
[17:30:13] <Gman> flyingparchment: tools-discuss would be a better forum
[17:30:16] <flyingparchment> i never saw such a feature in bugzilla.
[17:30:30] <flyingparchment> Gman: i don't care that much.. i will just avoid using bugzilla as much as possible if it's chosen ;)
[17:30:45] <tsp> z1pp1ty: what mount command are you running when you get the error?
[17:31:17] <z1pp1ty> # mount -t nfs 192.168.1.245:/vm /vm
[17:31:54] <z1pp1ty> i'm now trying to mount the share locally on solaris and having issues
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[17:32:08] <z1pp1ty> nfs mount: 192.168.1.245:/vm: No such file or directory
[17:32:09] <tsp> z1pp1ty: try mount ...:/tank/vm /vm
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[17:32:49] <z1pp1ty> same fail
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[17:33:03] <tsp> z1pp1ty: where is it mounted on your solaris box?
[17:33:08] <tsp> and can you ls it?
[17:33:15] <tsp> to make sure its there
[17:33:20] <z1pp1ty> wait, failed from Linux
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[17:33:28] <z1pp1ty> but works locally
[17:33:33] <z1pp1ty> sort of
[17:34:41] <tsp> strange - if you use /tank/vm, it should work
[17:34:48] <tsp> otherwise I'm at a loss, sorry
[17:34:48] <z1pp1ty> ok, i get permission denied locally as well
[17:35:29] <tsp> that is just weird
[17:36:21] <ceri> z1pp1ty: check "svcprop -p config/local_only rpc/bind" please
[17:37:21] <z1pp1ty> false
[17:37:52] <z1pp1ty> here's an update of what I'm looking at: http://pastebin.com/m60bab9fe
[17:38:18] <ceri> kk, and the output of "share" too
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[17:38:58] <z1pp1ty> http://pastebin.com/m3fdd40dd
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[17:41:14] <z1pp1ty> any sort of firewalling going on by default?
[17:41:48] <timsf> http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/indiana-discuss/2007-October/002676.html
[17:41:55] <timsf> Oh for God's sake :-(
[17:42:08] <Gman> heh
[17:42:15] <Cyrille> :-)
[17:42:16] <asyd> arf
[17:42:31] * timsf goes off to look for weapons
[17:42:37] <cmihai> z1pp1ty, all services are closed by default, but NFS shouldn't be bothered.
[17:42:51] <ceri> heh
[17:43:09] <cmihai> The only "by default" thing is "Secure by Default" (see "netservices open" command). Though, like I said, probably no connection :-).
[17:43:18] <Cyrille> you should take it easy, it'll probably be worse when it is actually released...
[17:43:41] <cmihai> z1pp1ty, what does "showmount -e yourserver" report?
[17:43:51] <cmihai> z1pp1ty, or "showmount -e localhost" for that matter.
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[17:44:14] <z1pp1ty> it's in the pastebin: http://pastebin.com/m3fdd40dd
[17:44:42] <z1pp1ty> same for localhost
[17:45:34] <z1pp1ty> the only thing I can think of that is non-default here is that I tinkered with Samba at one point
[17:45:53] <z1pp1ty> but afaik, the only thing nfs cares about is my IP, no?
[17:46:12] <timeless> ok, sounds like quips will probably be at least moderated
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[17:47:43] <timeless> timsf: i don't  get it?
[17:48:48] <seanmcg> z1pp1ty try with rw= at 192 dot 168.1 ? instead of using the mask etc.
[17:48:50] <asyd> so, indiana or not ? :)
[17:49:01] <alanc> not yet
[17:49:13] * dclarke thinks "real soon now"
[17:49:26] <Cyrille> but it's pretty early over on the Pacific coast...
[17:49:51] <z1pp1ty> zfs set sharenfs=rw= at 192 dot 168.1,nosuid tank/vm
[17:49:55] <noyb> almost 10am...  just about wake-up time.  :-)
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[17:50:02] <asyd> ok :)
[17:50:15] <Cyrille> ah right, this week we're one hour closer
[17:50:45] <z1pp1ty> it looks like it mounted!
[17:51:55] <z1pp1ty> seanmcg: you rock. thanks!
[17:52:15] <seanmcg> np
[17:52:48] <asyd> ok, time to drink some beers (it's the week end for us), good luck for indiana people!
[17:53:11] <Gman> asyd: thank you
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[17:53:34] <z1pp1ty> seanmcg: now, if that works, how do I restrict it to just one IP? :P
[17:54:03] * z1pp1ty got excited and forgot original goal
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[17:54:23] <seanmcg> z1pp1ty, rw=192.168.1.X
[17:54:37] <seanmcg> I think
[17:54:38] <z1pp1ty> permission denied :(
[17:54:44] <z1pp1ty> that is where we started ;)
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[17:55:43] <z1pp1ty> i've triple checked the IP
[17:56:08] <z1pp1ty> and the only other interfaces are lo and vmnets that shouldn't be used for this
[17:56:40] <tsp> doesn't hurt to check, if you have an ssh connection open to the solaris box, echo $SSH_CLIENT
[17:57:05] <timsf> timeless, what don't you get - I'm just whinging that someone is casting aspersions on Indiana
[17:57:12] <cast> just thought i'd give some feedback on that bad block...that disk is dying fast, did a zpool scrub on it yesterday - no errors, today 4% done and 1000 errors already.
[17:57:27] <z1pp1ty> yep, correct IP
[17:57:39] <timeless> timsf: my English parser doesn't have error correction
[17:57:45] <timsf> ;-)
[17:57:46] <tsp> weird
[17:57:47] <timeless> i assume anything that doesn't parse isn't English
[17:58:01] <timeless> the url you pointed to had random letters ...
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[18:00:05] <tsp> cast: did you backup your data?
[18:00:25] <tsp> 1000 errors in one day is quite a few
[18:00:40] * tsp wonders what is used for backups now that storage has increased so much
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[18:01:30] <cast> its in a zfs mirror config, i'm pleased to see zfs reporting no dataloss :), the data is a backup
[18:01:48] <jteo> tsp: bigger tapes?
[18:02:08] <oninoshiko> bigger tapes
[18:02:21] * oninoshiko LOLs
[18:02:23] <timeless> google just ships hard drives across the country in trunks
[18:02:24] <tsp> how much would it cost to buy a tape drive?
[18:02:25] <z1pp1ty> commodity hard drives?
[18:02:42] <timsf> timeless, nono, it's fine - he/she was just noting that it's November where they are, and they haven't seen an iso image yet
[18:02:45] <tsp> I'll probably want to back up a few hundred GB of data soon
[18:02:48] <oninoshiko> depends on capacity
[18:02:56] <timsf> shouting "Vapour!" at the mailing list (as in vapour-ware)
[18:03:23] <oninoshiko> we have ones that are a TB... and they arnt exactly new
[18:03:26] <ceri> Is that related to /etc/motd presumably?
[18:03:39] <z1pp1ty> is there an equivalent to the watch command that ships w/ OS?
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[18:04:21] * oninoshiko uses a while loop
[18:05:16] <tsp> z1pp1ty: while :;do command;sleep x;done
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[18:06:23] <kjetilho> tsp: + clear
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[18:07:08] <tsp> oh
[18:07:41] <oninoshiko> while true; do clear; ls -lh; sleep 1; done #where ls -lh is whatever command you want to run
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[18:08:41] * oninoshiko is out of time 0.0 (ntp server is apperently down)
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[18:10:43] <theRealballchalk> so is  CDE stil around in 75?
[18:11:11] *** g4lt-sb100 is now known as g4lt-V
[18:11:24] <Pietro_S> yes it is
[18:12:30] <theRealballchalk> phew!
[18:12:37] <theRealballchalk> i wonder how long it's gonna be around for
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[18:13:23] <LeftWing> theRealballchalk: Just long enough to get attached to another desktop environment. ;P
[18:13:58] <theRealballchalk> haha
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[18:14:11] <theRealballchalk> i'm getting a smaller sun server but dunno which one
[18:14:32] <theRealballchalk> also IBM are selling some server which are now gonna run solaris
[18:14:39] <g4lt-V> an IPX
[18:14:44] <theRealballchalk> apple's product offering is too $$$$
[18:14:51] <theRealballchalk> dell....meh
[18:15:16] <theRealballchalk> i'm looking at a rackmount u server kinda
[18:15:23] <theRealballchalk> do some web stuff
[18:15:30] <theRealballchalk> wow
[18:15:35] <theRealballchalk> this room has grown
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[18:15:43] <theRealballchalk> 250 up from 219
[18:15:50] <theRealballchalk> brb
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[18:31:34] <timsf> wtf are Emergency OGB actions ?
[18:31:51] <timeless> ??
[18:31:52] <timsf> (and is there music to go along with them ? :-)
[18:32:49] <timsf> http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/indiana-discuss/2007-October/002695.html
[18:32:54] * timsf shakes head
[18:32:55] <theRealballchalk> i don't understand why my laptop maxes out at 2 gigs ram?
[18:32:56] <theRealballchalk> why?
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[18:33:26] <tsoome> why u need unused ram?
[18:33:34] <tsoome> thats wasted money
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[18:43:04] <holcomb> alarm bells are going off in the ogb office
[18:43:14] <holcomb> err secret underground lair
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[18:46:31] <theRealballchalk> tsoome: i just like the feeling of RAMs
[18:46:42] <tsoome> ?
[18:46:58] <theRealballchalk> jk but technologically speaking how is it that only each cpu can support so many rams?
[18:46:59] <kjetilho> you sound like a traumatized Aussie
[18:47:41] <theRealballchalk> what is a traumatized aussie?
[18:47:42] <theRealballchalk> lol
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[18:51:11] <tenex> it isn't a cpu-limitation if it's a modern 32-bit cpu...
[18:51:22] <tenex> it can be a controller limitation, etc
[18:51:47] <tenex> i.e. it can't support a density higher than 128MB/chip
[18:52:09] <tenex> which limits the per-dimm density, and overall system ram
[18:52:20] <theRealballchalk> o i c
[18:52:23] <oninoshiko> who said anything about "unused" just because no program is using it doesn't mean anything... doesn't it get used for cache?
[18:52:38] <theRealballchalk> so theoretically a cpu can support much more density
[18:52:57] <theRealballchalk> oninoshiko: i agree
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[18:53:05] <theRealballchalk> as in the case with os x it is used for cache
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[18:54:20] <oninoshiko> IIRC every recent UNIX or UNIX system like system  (wouldn't want to make OpenGroup mad)
[18:54:31] <oninoshiko> uses unused memory for cache
[18:54:44] <tenex> it's a function of the kernel
[18:54:57] <tenex> windows vista's nt kernel has that, as well
[18:55:16] <tenex> xp and prior wasn't aggressive with cache (when it cached at all)
[18:55:23] <tenex> just disk cache
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[18:55:36] * oninoshiko hasn't used XP
[18:55:41] <oninoshiko> err vista
[18:55:54] <oninoshiko> the first one was wishful thinking -.-
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[18:56:06] * dclarke swears loudly
[18:56:09] <tenex> the unix kernel pulled-off caching much more effectively years before windows caught-up
[18:56:10] * dclarke kicks cat
[18:56:23] <oninoshiko> o.o poor cat
[18:56:43] <theRealballchalk> haha
[18:56:50] <dclarke> had a hard drive failure here .. and mirrored of course .. I pulled the erred disk and the machine dropped to the LOM
[18:56:52] <theRealballchalk> i wonder what all the hype is about
[18:57:24] <oninoshiko> well AFK, lunch
[18:57:27] <theRealballchalk> what's an LOM?
[18:58:19] <dclarke> Lights Out Manager
[18:58:38] <dclarke> the ALOM .. the OBP prom ok prompt dammit it crashed when it were not supposed to
[18:58:41] * dclarke kicks cat .. again
[19:00:20] <PerterB> I doubt it's the cat's fault
[19:00:37] <dclarke> Boot device: /pci@1f,0/pci@1,1/scsi@2/disk@0,0:a  File and args: -sv /pci@1f,0/pci@1,1/scsi@2/sd@1,0:a
[19:00:38] <dclarke> :217: The file just loaded does not appear to be executable.
[19:00:45] <dclarke> argg .. its getting worse
[19:00:50] * dclarke the cat is runnign now
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[19:02:31] <dclarke> hallowween is getting worse
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[19:02:48] <tenex> yea, it just got an extra w
[19:03:16] <theRealballchalk> lol
[19:03:36] <theRealballchalk> it's creeping into the computers
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[19:18:20] <Merculis> hello there.  does anyone know how to edit contextual menus in JDS (gnome)?
[19:18:48] <Merculis> contextual menus = right click
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[19:30:18] <Odin-> Anyone know what's up with Indiana - as in, is it coming, or are the debates too much?
[19:30:55] <wesolows> the debates aren't enough
[19:31:04] <wesolows> people are still asking questions about it
[19:31:51] <Odin-> Hm?
[19:33:45] <_setuid_H> Does anybody want some opensolaris wallpapers?
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[19:34:47] <_setuid_H> There is a couple of them http://www.lasicka.cz/setuid/lk_bg_osol.tar.bz2
[19:35:12] <_setuid_H> If you don't like it please don't hurt me :-)
[19:35:59] <kjetilho> grr.  why isn't Jumpstart working unattended?  it's a bit annoying there is no error message, just jumping into the question asking for language
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[19:37:57] <Shiv_1> Ian Murdock's announcement mail was unexpected in the middle of the heat :)
[19:38:21] <Odin-> Shiv_1: Certainly generated some talk...
[19:38:24] <Odin-> Icky.
[19:38:37] * Odin- lurklurklurk.
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[19:39:59] <Shiv_1> First time the letter of the law (constitution) being interpreted so often. The community could have been better off without all this.
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[19:40:52] <Odin-> I suspect it would've been less nerve-racking to have seen the ISO before everything blowing up. 8)
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[19:41:16] * Odin- is more or less indifferent to the naming, but wants to see what the devil is going on with the project itself. :p
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[19:47:26] <kjetilho> http://storagemojo.com/2007/09/19/cerns-data-corruption-research/
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[19:50:59] <Shiv_1> Odin-, btw, to your original question, my guess is it will be coming as planned. I would be surprised if the milestone declaration internally have been done, and launch has been worked out to a good detail.
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[19:52:04] * Odin- mumbles something about bloody California time.
[19:52:05] <wesolows> Odin-: on the contrary, the naming is the essential issue.
[19:52:30] <wesolows> If it's named Indiana, everyone is free to agree or disagree with the goals and implementation without much rancor.
[19:52:43] <oninoshiko> what?
[19:53:15] <wesolows> If it's named OpenSolaris, it makes it obvious that Sun is disrupting the community's ability to govern itself, using its trademark rights to quash dissent, and asserting that we all are behind something which in fact we are not
[19:53:23] <wesolows> The name *is* the game.
[19:53:44] <oninoshiko> what did ian murdock say?
[19:53:45] <nachox> i'm not sure i agree there
[19:53:54] <wesolows> it doesn't matter what he says.  He's one person.
[19:54:05] <nachox> sun is actually asking whether we agree or not after all
[19:54:06] <wesolows> We don't have one-person rule here.
[19:54:11] <Odin-> You know, even *if* they just keep the name Indiana, most of the disadvantages to other distributions will *still* appear, simply due to Indiana being available directly from opensolaris.org...
[19:54:34] <wesolows> No, they're not.  To the extent that they're asking anything, they're asking it of a pliant Group comprised primarily of their own marketing staff and their apologists.
[19:54:34] <nachox> and in any case, that particular decision should go through the ogb
[19:54:48] <wesolows> The OGB is the liaison with Sun.  We were neither asked nor approached.
[19:54:51] <Odin-> oninoshiko: He announced that the preview of Indiana will be called "OpenSolaris Developer Preview" or something.
[19:54:54] <wesolows> Ding ding ding, we have a winner.
[19:55:05] <oninoshiko> ahh
[19:55:35] <wesolows> He has zero authority to make that announcement unless he means that Sun as a corporation is using its trademark in contravention of the OpenSolaris Charter.
[19:56:00] <wesolows> It owns the mark, but using it in this way is a clear charter violation.  They are in a sense declaring that OpenSolaris as an independent self-governing entity is dead.
[19:56:22] <wesolows> That would be healthy if they were being up front about it, but of course they're not, because they want it both ways.
[19:56:23] <Odin-> Oh, and then there's another debate about how Indiana is bypassing all the rules, because they're using GNU userland.
[19:56:44] <wesolows> Odin-: Now you know why I say the name is the game.
[19:56:59] <wesolows> Odin-: It would be fine to use GNU userland if they weren't claiming to represent the entire community.
[19:57:05] <wesolows> Nexenta did it and no one said boo.
[19:57:41] 
[19:58:06] <wesolows> I don't intend to be mean, but that's a naive approach.
[19:58:17] <nachox> a preview that is called opensolaris
[19:59:45] <Pietro_S> I understand it as OpenSolaris will be used as some mark of compatibility of OpenSolaris distribution ...
[19:59:53] <Shiv_1> Throughout the developement Indiana-discuss has been one noisy list to show community involvement while the decision making & the work has been primarily internally.
[20:00:11] <wesolows> Shiv_1: Coming around, finally, eh? :-)
[20:00:45] <wesolows> Like I said, they want it both ways: they want more people to join and for that they need people to think we're really a community, but they also want to control everything that's said, done, and shipped.
[20:01:02] 
[20:01:25] <wesolows> Either the OGB wins this battle or we should all pack it up and go home and leave Sun to its own self delusions.
[20:01:41] * dclarke buys wesolows a beer
[20:02:08] <Odin-> Oh, and of course a pitched battle doesn't *already* mean you should pack up?
[20:02:20] <wesolows> Odin-: I don't expect Sun to participate in community building unless it thinks it's in its self-interest to do so.  But fortunately we don't actually need them to participate, we just need them to leave us alone.  Since they won't, we will probably have to change our name to something they don't control and get off their servers, or perish.
[20:02:47] <Shiv_1> I made my points on the list so have many others, but they are getting lost among the over-zeal. I have not enthused enough to *actively* participate.
[20:03:17] <Shiv_1> s/I have not enthused/I am not enthused/
[20:03:36] <wesolows> "the list" is probably not the right list; opensolaris-discuss is mainly populated by people who don't know any better
[20:04:13] <WickedWicky> hey all!
[20:04:33] <Odin-> wesolows: Considering that the essential nature of the damn thing is tied up with Sun, I think that would be far harder than you make it out to be. :>
[20:05:18] <Shiv_1> wesolows: Any corporate would be self-interested, but I am *damn* surprised that Sun thinks that community health is irrelevant.
[20:05:32] <wesolows> Sun is not essential to anything.  They fund a lot of work, but as a technical community we expect their engineers to participate as individuals, not representatives.  The charter and constitution require this.
[20:05:48] <palowoda> which OS should I install SXDE, SXCE or OpenSolaris?
[20:05:52] <Shiv_1> I would expect it to be of benefit to Sun even if not 100% aligned.
[20:06:12] <wesolows> palowoda: Install OpenBSD.
[20:06:36] * WickedWicky is gonna upgrade his brick today
[20:06:56] <palowoda> Oh yeah forgot the :)
[20:07:04] <Odin-> wesolows: Even if they participate as individuals, they do so as employees of Sun Microsystems. Pretending otherwise is naive. :>
[20:07:04] <wesolows> I didn't.
[20:07:05] <WickedWicky> lol, I assumed the :)
[20:07:17] <nachox> i think he is serious
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[20:07:41] <wesolows> Odin-: Nope,  I'm a Sun employee.  I'm here as an individual.  The instant my management makes any effort to control my participation, I'm outta here forever.
[20:07:44] <WickedWicky> nachox: tu Solaris 7 ta funcionando?
[20:08:12] <nachox> solaris 7?
[20:08:18] <WickedWicky> yea
[20:08:27] <WickedWicky> the thingy you downloaded
[20:08:36] <nachox> i have none, i have a solaris 8
[20:08:40] <WickedWicky> uh
[20:08:44] <WickedWicky> okay, I am messing up
[20:08:48] <nachox> and the man pages worked, thank you
[20:08:55] <WickedWicky> oh yes! that! it was you
[20:10:12] <Odin-> wesolows: Ah, I see. And you're sure that's not also the case with the people declaring the Indiana preview to be OpenSolaris? (Due, presumably, to the need to clear such a declaration with legal first?)
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[20:11:03] <wesolows> They're welcome to act as individuals and campaign for such a declaration but they aren't empowered to actually make it themselves.
[20:11:16] <nachox> wesolows: do you need us to spam the indiana mailing list asking them to go through the OGB first? :)
[20:11:27] <wesolows> We'll see.
[20:11:33] <wesolows> It's not an ask thing.
[20:11:41] <wesolows> It's  a reminder.
[20:13:08] * Odin- notes that there are two basically irreconcilable approaches going on here.
[20:13:53] <Odin-> One is the "meritocratic" do-it-and-see-what-happens approach, the other the legalistic follow-the-forms.
[20:15:02] <wesolows> there's no conflict theere
[20:15:28] <wesolows> the conflict, if any, occurs when a see-what-happens approach has yielded something that its proponents believe is ready to be integrated
[20:15:31] <nachox> god i hate xerox
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[20:16:03] <wesolows> a project team is free to do whatever it likes for as long as it likes, until they want to integrate into a consolidation
[20:16:15] <wesolows> that's when the rules come in
[20:16:16] <Odin-> wesolows: No, that's what you get with a technical problem. But, you see, this isn't a technical problem.
[20:16:29] <Odin-> It's a political one.
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[20:16:38] <Odin-> And that works a bit differently. 8)
[20:17:29] <wesolows> It's become a political problem because people have decided that they want to attach our name to something without following those rules
[20:18:12] <dclarke> wesolows: if the OGB had the spine to stand up and say the sort of thing that you feel ar true .. then people would follow .. what we need is a bit of leadership and as an exernal person I can certainly propose a remedy .. but no one will like me very much for saying it.
[20:18:30] <Odin-> dclarke: Hm, do go ahead.
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[20:18:43] <Odin-> We need Robespierre!
[20:18:51] <wesolows> dclarke: I'm willing to say it.  I'm saying it.
[20:19:38] <dclarke> well ... I can certainly host a LOT and I do these days .. but you may not have noticed this but keeping something large up and running costs money .. and no one at Sun will be in a hurry to hand over the OpenSolaris.xxx doamins
[20:19:40] <Odin-> wesolows: As yourself. You're not the OGB putting its foot down, which I think is what he's asking for.
[20:19:59] <dclarke> Odin : no .. actually I was thinking something else
[20:20:02] <wesolows> There are 7 members.
[20:20:05] <wesolows> I'm only 1.
[20:20:14] <dclarke> Rich Teer makes 2
[20:20:44] <wesolows> I'm writing a motion to rename the community.
[20:20:49] <Odin-> wesolows: Contact the others and see if they feel the same way, and see where it goes from there?
[20:20:56] <dclarke> I ran for election .. but no one wanted a boat rocker around
[20:20:59] <wesolows> If the OGB approves it, it will be the first step in casting off Sun's shackles
[20:21:02] <dclarke> they got Kieth instead :-)
[20:21:09] <Odin-> Don't rock the boat. Sink the fucker.
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[20:21:48] <dclarke> wesolows : going to post the to osol-discuss ?
[20:22:06] <Odin-> wesolows: Why go directly there?
[20:22:30] <dclarke> at the moment .. I have to deal with Blastwave site being down
[20:22:35] <dclarke> damn hard drives
[20:22:50] <wesolows> dclarke: I never post to that list.
[20:23:00] <dclarke> lost a sub-mirror and when I hot swapped in a new one .. poof .. down goes the site
[20:23:11] <Odin-> wesolows: Why not start by checking whether this nonsense is actually going on, or if there's been some misunderstanding?
[20:23:28] <Odin-> Always helps to give people the benefit of the doubt...
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[20:31:59] <wesolows> Oh, trust me, nonsense is going on.
[20:32:15] * paul has a dumb question of the day
[20:32:19] <elektronkind> hopefully a good dose of shenanigans too
[20:32:24] <paul> how do i teach mdb about a type?
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[21:02:21] <axisys> how do I add two include path in cc? I need to add /opt/csw/inlcude and /usr/include.. -I/opt/sw/include:/usr/include does not seem to work.. what is the right syntax ?
[21:03:03] <Stric> but /usr/include isn't something you should be poking at..
[21:03:25] <Stric> either the compiler already uses it and is fine, or it's not (gcc has its own copies) and you shouldn't..
[21:04:05] <axisys> Stric: thanks
[21:04:19] <dclarke> axisys : try -I twice and specify CPPFLAGS=-I/opt/csw/include LD_OPTIONS=-R/opt/csw/lib -L/opt/csw/lib
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[21:05:39] <WickedWicky> dclarke, I upgraded my sparcstation 20 :P
[21:05:53] <dclarke> wow
[21:05:54] <WickedWicky> 2x 75Mhz / 320MB RAM now
[21:06:01] <quasi> WickedWicky: now a sparcstation 21? ;)
[21:06:07] <WickedWicky> quasi: haha
[21:06:13] <dclarke> 320MB of RAM .. thats just crazy .. you will never need more than 640K
[21:06:24] <WickedWicky> well, i paid 20 euros for the upgrade, I am happy
[21:06:32] <WickedWicky> yea! 640K ought to  be enough for everybody
[21:06:48] <dclarke> my SS20 is quad ROSS 60MHz and when winter comes .. I may turn it on full time
[21:06:51] <dclarke> its a nice heater
[21:07:02] <dclarke> not very efficient .. but real hot
[21:07:15] <elektronkind> not getting the 125Mhz hypersparcs ?
[21:07:27] <dclarke> too much money
[21:07:32] <elektronkind> I have a ROM for those in a drawer somewhere
[21:07:36] <dclarke> I want the quad 200MHz
[21:07:39] <WickedWicky> ROSS was kinda expensive too, no?
[21:07:45] <dclarke> I have the Ross ROM already
[21:07:48] <elektronkind> the quad 200 was money
[21:07:55] <dclarke> big money
[21:08:06] <axisys> dclarke: thanks
[21:08:07] <elektronkind> the massive blue heatsinks were just awe-inspiring
[21:08:20] <dclarke> axisys : that works ?
[21:08:39] <dclarke> okay .. time for a public opinion poll
[21:08:43] <axisys> dclarke: did not try that yet
[21:08:51] <dclarke> Blastwave.org is down .. still .. the disk died
[21:08:56] <axisys> dclarke: i am trying to compile vobcopy
[21:09:05] <dclarke> shall I upgrade to S10u4 or just pop in a disk and remirror
[21:09:06] <axisys> dclarke: getting all kind a compile issue
[21:09:17] <dclarke> axisys : I can relate
[21:09:31] <palowoda> Go for build 75.
[21:09:45] <dclarke> no thanks Bob
[21:09:55] <dclarke> I think I'll stick with S10u3 on this
[21:09:58] <axisys> dclarke: thanks for the libdvdread though in blastwave.
[21:10:02] <dclarke> and just go wit ha new disk
[21:10:21] <dclarke> axisys : if I ever get this damn machine back up and running
[21:10:24] <WickedWicky> dclarke: I'd go for a new disk and keep things as they are, god knows what might break (php for example)
[21:10:35] <dclarke> yeah ..
[21:10:36] <jpdrawneek> Any one used ip-exclusive on build 75?
[21:10:48] <palowoda> dclarke: You never really cared about software support anyways. :))
[21:11:06] * dclarke whispers "yeah .. right"
[21:11:15] <palowoda> It's all about hardware.
[21:13:23] <WickedWicky> but ehm.. how come you can choose between installing Solaris 10u4 or remirror, and you're down due to a disk failing?
[21:13:45] <WickedWicky> controller died? or did it take the second disk with him?
[21:14:03] <dclarke> want to see ?
[21:14:06] <WickedWicky> sure
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[21:15:03] <dclarke> http://rafb.net/p/RHg9DS44.txt
[21:15:31] <dclarke> so at 10:55 AM today the target 0 disk gagged up a furr ball
[21:16:03] <dclarke> scrool down to where it says uptime
[21:16:40] <dclarke> note that the machine suddenly went from a "#" prompt to OBP noise
[21:16:52] <dclarke> essnetially .. I pulled the failed disk and it died
[21:17:15] <oninoshiko> oh... anyone tried booting OpenSolaris off an HBA?
[21:17:18] <dclarke> sometimes .. life sucks
[21:17:36] <oninoshiko> to clarify: an iSCSI HBA
[21:18:04] <oninoshiko> spacificly OpenSolaris x86?
[21:18:23] <WickedWicky> dclarke, sucks to be you at the moment :s
[21:18:33] <dclarke> yeah
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[21:20:37] <dclarke> I am going to just lay down old world filesystem arrangements http://rafb.net/p/T0bgT827.html
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[21:22:20] <dclarke> how about this for being draconian : newfs -s 527744 -b 8192 -f 2048 -i 2048 -m 10 -a 2 -C 1 /dev/rdsk/c0t0d0s0
[21:23:54] <WickedWicky> but wait a second, you can't even boot from the other submirror? the non-failed
[21:24:08] <dclarke> right
[21:25:00] <dclarke> thanks to the mystery of ufsdump level 0 .. I can pull back the whole machine as I see fit
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[21:25:48] <WickedWicky> you sure it isnt your backplane or something? both disks seem to be on the same controller. and if both disks died around the same time...
[21:26:49] <dclarke> well .. the plan discussed on our mail list was to zone this thing anyways
[21:26:55] <dclarke> so .. this is just temporary
[21:27:00] <dclarke> and I want to get joomla up
[21:27:10] <dclarke> so .. I'll spit on it to keep it from bursting into flames
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[21:28:05] <paul> jpdrawneek: why are you interested in b75? something broke?
[21:30:01] <jpdrawneek> yes
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[21:30:32] <jpdrawneek> zone with ip-exclusive is not working as it should
[21:31:14] <jpdrawneek> to ping it is something horriable - ping from it is ok
[21:31:57] <jpdrawneek> any one else having trouble with b75 and ip-exclusive zones?
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[21:32:49] <paul> jpdrawneek: horrible in what way?
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[21:33:24] <jpdrawneek> 80-99% packet drop
[21:33:48] <jpdrawneek> and i can't ping it from the global zone
[21:33:56] <dclarke> think positive .. that means 1% to 20% correct !
[21:34:11] <jpdrawneek> true
[21:34:20] <jpdrawneek> but i sort of need it to work
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[21:34:39] <dclarke> I can relate to that
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[21:35:16] <jpdrawneek> the git is that it worked in b73
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[21:39:07] <paul> jpdrawneek: yep, i'm using exclusive in b73 - works here.
[21:39:35] <jpdrawneek> yes i know :)
[21:39:42] <jpdrawneek> but i am on b75
[21:39:49] <paul> wonder what went in 74/75 that did it..
[21:40:05] <jpdrawneek> i also know that b76 works fine
[21:40:08] <paul> ah
[21:40:13] <jpdrawneek> but i am on b75
[21:40:29] <paul> jpdrawneek: luupgrade to 76
[21:40:44] <jpdrawneek> ok where do i download that from :)
[21:41:03] <jpdrawneek> keep looking
[21:41:10] <paul> minimal downtime, potentially (presuming you remembered to set aside partitions for liveupgrade)
[21:41:21] <paul> (or you've got a spare disk)
[21:41:36] <jpdrawneek> also luupgrade is broke on sparc at the moment
[21:41:52] <paul> ah
[21:41:56] <jpdrawneek> yep
[21:42:21] <seanmcg> jpdrawneek; lu broken on sparc ?  how ?
[21:42:37] <jpdrawneek> it can't mount the mini kernel
[21:42:47] <jpdrawneek> can find the bug id if you want
[21:43:10] <jpdrawneek> can in solaris 10u3 i think
[21:43:38] <seanmcg> yatesy, please.  Since I know of a few sparc boxes here that have been lu'ng SXCE builds with no trouble
[21:44:01] <jpdrawneek> bug id 6573154
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[21:44:33] <jpdrawneek> you problably using an old lu
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[21:44:58] <jpdrawneek> i was till my box broke - did a fresh install and stuffed ever since
[21:45:14] <k_io_lost> Does anyone understand what this means
[21:45:16] <k_io_lost> [ID 335743 kern.notice] BAD TRAP: type=e (#pf Page fault) rp=d76b7b74 addr=28 occurred in module "sbp2" due to a NULL pointer dereference
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[21:48:50] <dclarke> that is a bad thing
[21:48:53] <nasser> when Indiana release ?
[21:48:54] <dclarke> not a good thing
[21:49:02] <dclarke> nasser: when it does
[21:49:13] <dclarke> k_io_lost: got a core dump ?
[21:49:36] <jpdrawneek> k_io_lost: some one screwed up when coding module sbp2
[21:49:38] <seanmcg> jpdrawneek: using what SXCE comes with..
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[21:50:36] <jpdrawneek> seanmcg: Which SXCE i have tried to install both - no joy - thats how i ended up logging the bug
[21:50:59] <jpdrawneek> seanmcg: whats your box - you got mirrored disks?
[21:51:57] <seanmcg> nope, just two lu partitions - single disk machine
[21:52:31] <seanmcg> ahh I see, the bug is when one lu's from an older solaris (s9) to a sxce release.
[21:52:51] <jpdrawneek> seanmcg: mine mirrored disk on sb1500
[21:53:07] <jpdrawneek> seanmcg: i using solaris 10
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[21:55:05] <jpdrawneek> So nobody uses Zones on build 75?
[21:55:19] *** dlg has quit IRC
[21:56:02] <elektronkind> no one. anywhere.
[21:56:04] *** blah__ has quit IRC
[21:56:09] <elektronkind> not a single soul
[21:56:16] <dclarke> umm
[21:56:20] <dclarke> I would
[21:56:24] <jpdrawneek> from the look thats true :(
[21:56:25] <dclarke> but .. well
[21:56:34] <dclarke> not .. at the moment
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[21:56:50] <dclarke> okay .. I'm not using them thar zones tings on b75
[21:56:52] <elektronkind> jpdrawneek: I'd try the zones-discuss list. you'd probably find more answers there for this problem (and the engineers who would know about them)
[21:56:59] <dclarke> although .. I've heard of the m
[21:57:21] <jpdrawneek> elektronkind: check and you find I am already there
[21:57:56] <elektronkind>  sorry, I don't make a habit of corelating and remembering mailing list traffic to irc :)
[21:58:17] <jpdrawneek> light weight
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[21:59:02] <jpdrawneek> so far i been bounced round just about ever where - and still no real answer
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[22:01:08] <jpdrawneek> to log as a bug its got to be replicatable - and I can only spare the one box at the moment, joy
[22:01:24] <jpdrawneek> any body know where i can get b74 from?
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[22:03:29] <dclarke> sure
[22:03:32] <dclarke> one sec ..
[22:03:54] <dclarke> uh .. actually ... no .. damn .. my own website is down and the links were there
[22:04:03] * dclarke feels pretty stupid
[22:04:04] <jpdrawneek> :'(
[22:04:09] <seanmcg> jpdrawneek: lu - you were lu'ng from a cd/dvd ?
[22:04:18] <jpdrawneek> CD
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[22:04:24] <dclarke> can I make a suggestion ?
[22:04:44] <dclarke> why do you want snv_b74 ?
[22:04:45] <jpdrawneek> who to?
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[22:04:51] <dclarke> you
[22:04:56] * dclarke point a finger
[22:05:21] <seanmcg> a workaround maybe to use setup_install_server etc from the CDs, i.e. put the SXCE on disk and lu from there
[22:05:28] <jpdrawneek> b73 worked (but had issues with apache) - build 75 does not work
[22:06:07] <jpdrawneek> seanmcg: tried that still could not mount the mini kernel
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[22:06:42] <jpdrawneek> dclarke: b76 is not out yet - so only one left is b74 which may work
[22:07:10] <dclarke> ok .. makes sense
[22:07:14] <seanmcg> jpdrawneek: did you 'host' the SXCE image on a local disk or over nfs ?
[22:07:19] <dclarke> I was going to suggest snv_70b
[22:07:28] <jpdrawneek> drivers are not in it
[22:07:37] <jpdrawneek> local
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[22:08:44] <jpdrawneek> dclarke: i need gld3 drivers for eri and qfe - qfe when in b73/74
[22:10:33] <dclarke> hrmmm ..
[22:10:39] <jpdrawneek> yep
[22:10:42] <dclarke> let me see if I can be of assistance
[22:10:53] <jpdrawneek> its a tight spot alright
[22:10:56] <seanmcg> jpdrawneek; ok, sorry I canna help more.
[22:11:34] <jpdrawneek> seanmcg: i know - and i would be suprised if you could - sun support says before Solaris 10 u5 for a fix
[22:11:52] <jpdrawneek> seanmcg: spent a week with them
[22:12:24] <seanmcg> ouch.
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[22:12:54] <jpdrawneek> yep and i am stuck on b66 till they get mirror support back
[22:13:24] <jpdrawneek> which hopefuly will be any build now
[22:13:34] <elektronkind> if you have a support contract you can try opening a case and requestion an interim relief patch
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[22:13:46] <elektronkind> er "requesting"
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[22:14:03] <jpdrawneek> elektronkind: done that - that was there reply
[22:14:17] <elektronkind> teh suck
[22:14:26] <jpdrawneek> elektronkind: yep
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[22:16:05] <jpdrawneek> its a low piroity and my support is basic - well its nice they told me
[22:16:49] <dclarke> http://javashoplm.sun.com/ECom/docs/Welcome.jsp?StoreId=7&PartDetailId=Sol-Express_b74-DVD-x86-SP-G-B&TransactionId=try
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[22:18:06] <jpdrawneek> ta
[22:18:09] <dclarke> jpdrawneek: does that help ?
[22:18:51] <jpdrawneek> you got the cd link?
[22:19:03] * dclarke sheesh
[22:19:20] <sommerfeld> jpdrawneek: if you are desperate for new features you may be better off running some flavor of nevada.
[22:19:41] <dclarke> snv_b74 is
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[22:20:14] <dclarke> http://javashoplm.sun.com/ECom/docs/Welcome.jsp?StoreId=7&PartDetailId=Sol-Express_b74-x86-SP-G-B&TransactionId=try
[22:20:21] <jpdrawneek> sommerfeld: ????
[22:20:59] <jpdrawneek> dclarke: my guess with CD were not going to work :(
[22:21:21] <dclarke> whats the problem ?
[22:21:48] <jpdrawneek> i was changing the DVD to CD etc and that was not working
[22:22:07] <dclarke> http://javashoplm.sun.com/ECom/docs/Welcome.jsp?StoreId=7&PartDetailId=Sol-Express_b74-x86-SP-G-B&TransactionId=try   works
[22:23:01] <jpdrawneek> ya - as it is the right link
[22:23:06] <jpdrawneek> no a guess from me
[22:24:54] <jpdrawneek> sommerfeld: ??? I am ???
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[22:31:08] <bigredradio> Can someone do me a solid? Can I get a 'uname -p' from solaris on x86. (32&64-bit would be nice!)
[22:31:55] <seanmcg> i386
[22:32:20] <dclarke> $ uname -p
[22:32:21] <dclarke> i386
[22:32:22] <bigredradio> seanmcg: Thanks that helps. I'm only on sparc right now.
[22:32:56] <bigredradio> Any 64-bit systems? Probably the same.
[22:33:06] <seanmcg> yup, same
[22:33:11] <bigredradio> dclarke: Thanks.
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[22:34:20] <dclarke> http://rafb.net/p/moHMiK39.html
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[22:34:49] * nahamu looks around for Indiana...
[22:35:15] <jpdrawneek> nope
[22:35:16] <bigredradio> dclarke: Thanks. That helps.
[22:35:39] <nahamu> no LiveCD goodness tonight?
[22:35:54] <jpdrawneek> nope
[22:36:00] <jpdrawneek> better luck new week
[22:36:04] * nahamu mopes
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[22:36:59] <alanc> still 9.5 hours left until the promise of "releasing by end of 10/31 California time"
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[22:38:08] <blah__> lol
[22:38:23] <bigredradio> What is the 'standard' install path for 3rd party apps in Solaris? Similar to /usr/local or /opt in Linux.
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[22:39:08] <jpdrawneek> theres a standard in linux?
[22:39:15] <bigredradio> jpdrawneek: LOL
[22:39:18] <alanc> bigredradio: /opt
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[22:39:39] <alanc> which Linux & Solaris both got from SVR4
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[22:39:46] <bigredradio> alanc: thanks.
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[22:40:07] <jpdrawneek> bigredradio: is it just me with the apps which dump themselves where ever they like?
[22:40:26] <bigredradio> alanc_away: AIX uses /usr/lpp and we use /opt for linux, so that makes it easy.
[22:40:45] <blah__> to which I make a sym link like so:   ln -s /opt /usr/local         (Then when my finger memory says  /usr/local/bin   I get to the right place)    :-)
[22:41:00] <bigredradio> jpdrawneek: Well, that is why I am asking. There should be some sort of standard place. I know what you mean. I run into that all the time.
[22:41:41] <alanc> lots of sites on Solaris do crete a /usr/local for open source software they download and build (especially stuff using GNU autoconf that defaults there), but commercial apps tend to use /opt
[22:41:48] <nahamu> maybe all unixes should adopt the gobolinux model of every package keeping itself to its own directory
[22:42:05] <blah__> eek
[22:42:07] <bigredradio> /opt it is then
[22:42:11] <nahamu> hehehe
[22:42:26] <blah__> PATH explosion...
[22:42:41] <jpdrawneek> nahamu: but where you those folders go?
[22:42:42] <nahamu> blah, no, they put symlinks in
[22:42:50] <blah__> figures...
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[22:43:08] <blah__> a *standard* place for those symlinks I guess...
[22:43:13] <nahamu> jpdrawneek, I was kidding.  I run gentoo, what on earth do I know? ;)
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[22:43:46] <nahamu> I'm still waiting for my Indiana cd to lead me to the promised land.
[22:44:04] <jpdrawneek> good luck
[22:44:08] <nahamu> hehe
[22:44:23] <nahamu> in the meantime I guess it's still Nexenta for me.
[22:44:32] <jpdrawneek> any way the promised land is not finished yet
[22:44:51] <nahamu> I don't need to arrive, I just want to be heading in the right direction.
[22:45:33] <nahamu> Nexenta had me considering learning to make .deb packages, but I figure I'll see what Indiana has to offer before I jump in.
[22:45:34] <jpdrawneek> just head for the horizon with all the cranes - you can't miss it
[22:46:05] *** fredm has quit IRC
[22:46:16] <nahamu> indeed.  anyway, thanks for telling me to stop holding my breath tonight.
[22:47:18] *** fredm has joined #opensolaris
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[22:48:01] <alanc> I don't think the engineers are planning to wait quite until midnight, but they're busy working on getting it posted
[22:48:23] <nahamu> and then the real work begins
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[22:51:27] <elektronkind> what's this it we're chatting about?
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[22:52:10] <jpdrawneek> something shiny and down with the kids
[22:52:19] <elektronkind> word
[22:52:42] <jpdrawneek> otherwise known as debian mark 2
[22:52:56] <elektronkind> oh... /that/ thing.
[22:53:14] <elektronkind> ;)
[22:53:15] <jpdrawneek> yep
[22:54:19] * elektronkind readies a vmware fusion instance to load it up
[22:55:14] *** david_ has joined #opensolaris
[22:55:14] <elektronkind> alanc: I've been using vmware fusion on my mac for snv builds for about two weeks now and I have to say that I'm pleased to see that the vmware driver is included in x.org
[22:55:17] <david_> hi
[22:55:19] <jpdrawneek> bit earily for that
[22:56:10] <alanc> elektronkind: vmware contributed to Xorg, so it was easy for us to include it
[22:56:39] <alanc> vmmouse too in recent snv builds (since snv_65ish or so)
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[22:57:25] <david_> i have a problem with ssh when i m connected
[22:57:26] <dlg> what vmmouse do beyond the normal ps2 kbd emul?
[22:57:38] <david_> until a moment the session disconnect :(
[22:57:42] <david_> how could i prevent that ?
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[23:02:32] *** ChanServ sets mode: +o stevel
[23:02:52] <jbk> evening
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[23:04:12] <stevel> heya
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[23:05:26] <alanc> dlg: it somehow better coordinates mouse movement between the host & guest, I don't know the details
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[23:28:36] <ceri> is alanb the right person to speak to about www.opensolaris.org?
[23:28:49] <binarycrusader> website-discuss is
[23:28:54] <ceri> ta
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[23:58:13] <hrlmec> We are trying to have a couple of nfs mounts, mount automaticaly after reboot.  We have the entries in /etc/vfstab.  When we reboot, the nfs mounts are not automatically mounted, but if we immediately type "mountall" the mounts start working.  Why wouldn't they automatically be mounting after reboot?
[23:58:47] <timeless> is danek duvall on irc?
[23:58:56] <timeless> .whois dduvall
[23:59:15] * timeless pokes dduvall
[23:59:31] * stevel hits dduvall with a baseball bat
[23:59:44] <timeless> is that more effective?
[23:59:50] <stevel> nope
[23:59:53] <stevel> :-D





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