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[00:28:28] <Joz> hello
[00:29:47] <Joz> i just installed sxde but i'm curious about a message everytime i run a java app fron the terminal, the message says something like loaded gnome bridge for java, what that this means?
[00:31:06] <Joz> somebody?
[00:31:31] <Tpenta> I'm guessing that the java run-time noticed gnome running and adds some special interoperability
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[00:34:18] <Joz> i see... i guess you are right because i've used to have some problems with gnome running java apps on linux ... for example to open a folder from a jdialog control i have to do double-click very but very fast, but in sxde thats not the problem
[00:34:27] <cmihai> Joz, it's Java Swing connectors to Gnome.
[00:34:40] <Joz> so guess you are refering at something like that, right?
[00:35:01] <cmihai> Everything from the interface to the accesability features
[00:35:39] <Joz> nice
[00:36:01] <cmihai> Want to find out more, DTrace/truss it :D
[00:37:12] <Joz> just one more question, i want to install netbeans 6 beta 2 on sxde but at the netbeans.org download just solaris 10 its available
[00:37:28] <Joz> can i download solaris 10 package and intall on sxde?
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[00:39:09] <cmihai> Just install the damn thing.
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[00:39:30] <cmihai> Solaris binary compatibility means you can run anything made in the last 10 years :P
[00:39:44] <Joz> cool!
[00:40:07] <Joz> and sorry for the basic questions! i'm a n00b on sxde!
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[00:40:19] <cmihai> You should ditch SXDE for SXCE anyway ;P
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[00:40:52] <l1s> hm, can someone help me with my dt message system could not be started problem?
[00:41:08] <l1s> cant be
[00:41:16] <Joz> thanks guys!
[00:42:21] <palowoda> Anybody seen poor performance on build 75a with smaba mounted files systems?  On the order of maybe 1/10th the bandwidth I was getting with build 72.
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[00:46:06] <l1s> the dtmessage tells me to login with failsave login, but failsave hangs
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[00:54:05] <EchoBinary> i just discovered that pizza and sake arent terrible together
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[00:56:37] <paulf> Hello
[00:56:47] <bda> EchoBinary: Enough sake and anything will be fine.
[00:56:50] <bda> Until, you know, later.
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[01:00:11] <EchoBinary> lol
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[01:00:29] <EchoBinary> ..true
[01:00:32] <EchoBinary> woot :-D
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[01:33:39] <paulf> Hmmm
[01:34:10] <paulf> xVM seems to be installing XP just fine
[01:34:11] <dclarke> you broke the code of silence
[01:34:42] <paulf> sorry, I'm a bad person :)
[01:34:55] <dclarke> no prob .. you apologized
[01:35:19] <dclarke> are people down in the USA getting a little concerned about their dropping dollar ?
[01:35:23] <sleepcat> zfs snapshot user interface
[01:35:28] <sleepcat> dclarke: not really
[01:35:36] <jamesd> paulf, its a fact of life in corprate america...
[01:35:45] <dclarke> odd ..
[01:35:48] <sleepcat> don't really notice apart from the higher gas prices
[01:35:58] <dclarke> up in Canada we are looking at it .. quite closely
[01:36:07] <EchoBinary> indeed
[01:36:11] <EchoBinary> quite the turnabout
[01:36:12] <jamesd> dclarke, not at all... they are more concern about the falling values of our homes
[01:36:16] <sleepcat> now i can get a fair value for all my canadian dollars
[01:36:28] <sleepcat> i gave american money and got canadian change
[01:36:29] <dclarke> the USD has dropped a ton over he past two years compared to 15 other currencies
[01:36:38] <sleepcat> now I get my revenge!!!
[01:36:56] <dclarke> well ... it really messes up the import business
[01:37:01] <sleepcat> yup
[01:37:13] <sleepcat> we get more work in america now
[01:37:14] <dclarke> the value of a service across the border to the USA has lost 30% in two years
[01:37:39] <sleepcat> offshoring isn't cost effective with americans being so much cheaper now
[01:37:52] <sleepcat> and the best thing is prices haven't gone up too much aside from fuel
[01:37:55] <dclarke> which means if I sell a widget to a US customer .. I have to charge more .. so then he just shops locally
[01:38:00] <dclarke> that pretty much kills me
[01:38:01] <sleepcat> yup
[01:38:20] <sleepcat> it was getting pretty bad for manufacturers around 1999
[01:38:35] <jamesd> sleepcat, um they are still doing.. its still cheaper,  because wages are less and more so,  offshore people don't get 90% of the benefits that people in the u.s. do.. that is where the real savings are.
[01:38:40] <dclarke> manufacturers in USA or Canada or both ?
[01:38:51] <sleepcat> jamesd: depends on where you are
[01:39:05] <dclarke> yeah .. off shore to China where the literally have live in slaves to do the work
[01:39:12] <sleepcat> in the Pacific NW, costs aren't as high as in san fran or boston
[01:39:23] <jamesd> sleepcat, the reason its decreasing is the backlash of the customers  people hate it when they get an inian on the phone...
[01:39:43] <kjetilho> I heard some US companies off-shore to Canada since they save on health insurance for their employees
[01:39:47] <dclarke> we hate it here too
[01:39:54] <sleepcat> jamesd: indian call centers are expensive, you can get an american to do the job for 7.50 an hour
[01:40:00] <sleepcat> in oregon
[01:40:07] <sleepcat> and they know linux, windows etc
[01:40:08] <jamesd> sleepcat, even between the midwest and idian its a huge difference.. they make  $2-$3 an hour, work 12 hour days and hardly any benefits
[01:40:15] <dclarke> let me do the math .. $7.50 x 40 = not much a week
[01:40:28] <dclarke> people can't live on that .. at all
[01:40:35] <sleepcat> dclarke: roommates
[01:40:37] <kjetilho> so they do two jobs
[01:40:46] <kjetilho> or are students
[01:40:47] <dclarke> geez ...
[01:40:51] <sleepcat> nah, just live in a house with 5 other people
[01:40:54] <dclarke> yeah .. I guess
[01:40:59] <jamesd> sleepcat, well my wife's company still has two large indian call centers, and they make 1/4 the money and no benefits.
[01:41:15] <dclarke> hrmm I have to figure out how to install Studio12 via command line only .. one sec
[01:41:20] <sleepcat> jamesd: i see a lot of companies going back to the us
[01:41:36] <bda> dclarke: ./installer?
[01:41:38] * bda ducks.
[01:41:39] <kjetilho> dclarke: batch_installer seems broken, but installer works fine
[01:41:46] <kjetilho> unset DISPLAY first
[01:41:59] <dclarke> I'm on the console .. TERM=vt100
[01:42:08] <sleepcat> the time differential, plus the cost of adding profits to a foreign outsourcing firm is not benefitial anymore with the drop in the dollar
[01:42:08] <dclarke> there is no DISPLAY at all
[01:42:16] <kjetilho> no problem then
[01:42:36] <sleepcat> hey, i just saw a time machine ad on youtube for OS X leopard
[01:42:38] <bda> Never had an issue with it.
[01:42:51] <sleepcat> JDS should have a GUI for ZFS snapshots
[01:42:59] <dclarke> bda : well .. I'll know in a moment or two
[01:43:00] <jamesd> sleepcat, that is because of the backlash,  people can tell they are on the phone with an idian. and they call write letters and bitch... my wife got her job because the person that holds a major contract with the company said, at 3:45 pm on a friday, we want all our calls be handled by people in the u.s. by 5pm or we are canceling our contract.
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[01:43:10] <bda> dclarke: Know what?
[01:43:15] <kjetilho> jamesd: what do you mean by "idian"?
[01:43:26] <dclarke> bda : if the text installer works
[01:43:32] <jamesd> kjetilho, er indian,  citizen of india
[01:43:41] <sleepcat> jamesd: well, there are cultural diffences.  In india they tend to speak faster
[01:43:58] <kjetilho> jamesd: ok, you misspelled it consistently so I was beginning to wonder if it was slang
[01:44:03] <sleepcat> plus, they will always agree with a supervisor and will not tell you if something is going wrong
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[01:44:27] * Doc grabs some popcorn and pulls up a chair to watch
[01:44:47] <sleepcat> but they are highly educated
[01:45:00] <sleepcat> and competing with them is a pleasure
[01:45:08] <kjetilho> it's getting hard to find good people cheaply in Bangalore and surrounds
[01:45:25] <jamesd> sleepcat, most people would rather deal with an idiot redneck than an indian with a masters degree.
[01:45:39] * dclarke pulls up a chair
[01:45:44] * dclarke makes popcorn
[01:46:05] <sleepcat> kjetilho: I know of a call center where people in the US earn about 10 bucks an hour doing tech support for linux systems
[01:46:06] * Doc hands dclarke some of his popcorn
[01:46:24] <sleepcat> and they know what they're doing,
[01:46:25] <EchoBinary> where can i get that job?
[01:46:36] <sleepcat> EchoBinary: in portland oregon
[01:46:48] <sleepcat> the mecca of open source
[01:46:51] <kjetilho> the beauty of no minimum wage
[01:46:53] <bda> dclarke: It does. I've done it a dozen times.
[01:46:56] <EchoBinary> makes me glad i live on the east coast
[01:47:01] <EchoBinary> near Northern VA
[01:47:01] <bda> (On various SunFires, remotely)
[01:47:10] <sleepcat> EchoBinary: all the government jobs. lol
[01:47:51] <sleepcat> yeah, these people earned like 50 grand a year 5 years ago
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[01:48:10] <sleepcat> doing the same things.  Technology moves quite rapidly
[01:48:55] <dclarke> sleepcat : the only damn thing that technology does is drop in value
[01:49:06] <sleepcat> dclarke: exactly
[01:49:19] * dclarke puts on his "bitch" hat
[01:49:31] <sleepcat> look how much sun hardware drops.  Things that sold for 100,000 dollars know go on ebay for 700
[01:50:02] <dclarke> meanwhile a good technology guy needs a technical degree from a university ( B.Sc. etc + ) and ten years experience and then gets told he is overqualified to work for a six month contract
[01:50:05] <sleepcat> but hey, supporting linux for these people is better than flipping burgers
[01:50:34] <sleepcat> dclarke: plus, if your degree is from a few years back they think its outdated!
[01:50:45] <dclarke> really ? wow
[01:50:48] <sleepcat> yeah
[01:51:00] <sleepcat> engineers have it worse than comp. sci guys
[01:51:09] <dclarke> gee .. I may as well wipe my butt with my university degree
[01:51:29] <sleepcat> there are a lot of career changes with guys in their 40s with masters in EE for example
[01:51:36] <dclarke> becaue afterall .. binary and boolen logic are not used anymore :-P
[01:51:43] <sleepcat> doesn't help that research is being done in china
[01:51:44] <dclarke> boolean
[01:52:05] <sleepcat> dclarke: M$ is opening a new facility in Vancouver Canada
[01:52:14] <dclarke> if you are a 1 in a million type person in China .. there are 1200 people just like you
[01:52:28] <sleepcat> the chinese are smart
[01:52:55] <sleepcat> heck, at the University of Washington, they were the ones you'd see most in engineering, math programs
[01:53:03] <sleepcat> and comp. sci
[01:53:16] <dclarke> sleepcat : that is just a population effect
[01:53:27] <dclarke> when there are 1.2 billion of them ..
[01:53:28] <sleepcat> dclarke: true, but also priorities
[01:53:59] <sleepcat> if all you have are lawyers an MBAs, you can trade rocks and sticks without technology
[01:54:25] <sleepcat> we'd live in mud huts without the people who build things
[01:54:28] <dclarke> one thing Canada has tons of .. rocks and sticks
[01:54:47] <sleepcat> but really, all one needs is a home and a garden
[01:55:04] <sleepcat> a few pigs, sheep, goats and you're all set
[01:55:05] <dclarke> sleepcat :  a person with $10M in invested capital does not care .. they just live on investment earnings
[01:55:24] <sleepcat> dclarke: yet, that 10M will depreciate.  Look at the dollar
[01:55:46] <dclarke> sleepcat : you need more than that .. you need to do back breaking work from dawn to dusk
[01:55:53] * dclarke born on a farm
[01:55:56] <sleepcat> and eventually if all you make are rocks and sticks, a more advance civilization will conquor you
[01:56:33] <sleepcat> dclarke: did you sell the food or just grow enough for yourself?
[01:56:46] <dclarke> we traded with other farmers
[01:57:01] <sleepcat> its easier if you can keep all the you sow
[01:57:04] <dclarke> and we had enough land that we allowed the herd from the neighbors to graze
[01:57:21] <dclarke> we once traded a pig for a dozen barn cats
[01:57:25] <sleepcat> haha
[01:57:30] <sleepcat> make your own barn cats
[01:57:40] <dclarke> let me tell you .. there is no better rat trap than a dozen angry nasty looking barn cats
[01:58:00] <dclarke> the rats were getting into the chicken feed
[01:58:13] <sleepcat> exactly, a pig is worth more than a barn cat cause a barn cat can coaxed into moving in
[01:58:22] <dclarke> yes .. I grew up poor .. once had a rat sitting on my chest in the middle of the night
[01:58:37] <dclarke> the barn cats killed everyone of them
[01:58:52] <dclarke> they were a buch of well fed lazy looking cats inside of four weeks
[01:58:55] <Doc> carpet snakes are better
[01:59:08] <sleepcat> Doc: cats are the best
[01:59:22] <kjetilho> *median* hourly wage in the US for 2006 was $16.39.  that's $33k per year.
[01:59:39] <Doc> nah.. snakes are better, because they will eat both the rats _and_ the cats!
[01:59:40] <kjetilho> median for network and computer admins is 67k
[01:59:42] <sleepcat> kjetilho: that includes bill gates
[01:59:52] <kjetilho> median, not mean
[01:59:52] <EchoBinary> how about web programming?
[01:59:54] <sleepcat> kjetilho: in san fran and boston
[01:59:58] <Doc> median isnt affected by bill gates
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[02:00:24] <sleepcat> if you want to build a cheap tech center go to oregon
[02:00:38] <dclarke> brb
[02:00:53] <sleepcat> there are just farms to the south of portland
[02:00:56] <kjetilho> sorry, I read the wrong line.  63k for sysadmins. 66k for programmers
[02:01:24] <paulf> there is certainly some value of keeping customers happy by having support staff that they can understand easily
[02:01:25] <kjetilho> http://www.bls.gov/ncs/ocs/sp/ncbl0910.pdf
[02:01:30] <Bartman007> kjetilho: so sysadmin+programmer == 129k?   ;-)
[02:01:39] <kjetilho> :)
[02:01:41] <sleepcat> kjetilho: you can get a developer for 30K a year in downtown portland oregon
[02:01:45] <ghulands> hi, I am trying to setup a Marvel 8053 NIC on open solaris and am having some trouble. Any ideas?
[02:01:56] <kjetilho> sleepcat: they have statistics by area, too
[02:01:59] <sleepcat> that's about twice what one costs in India
[02:02:15] <sleepcat> but you get a local person, and don't have to deal with the time zone differnce
[02:02:22] <paulf> it often doesn't seem like much to us because a lot of us tend to work with people around the world, but a lot of people have trouble with accents
[02:02:43] <sleepcat> paulf: they'd better get over it
[02:03:08] <sleepcat> when i was at the U of Washington, the onces with accents were quite brilliant
[02:03:16] <kjetilho> paulf: this cuts both ways, a Southern drawl isn't easy to understand for a foreigner, either
[02:03:36] <paulf> kj: that's certainly true
[02:03:59] <kjetilho> better stick to plain NY or California -- which is what people know from TV...
[02:04:01] <sleepcat> i don't care much for money as long as I can pay my rent, buy food, and upgrade my Mac every once in a while
[02:04:09] <paulf> so you might spend twice as long on the phone with somebody who isn't a native speaker
[02:04:47] <sleepcat> my car is 15 years old, and I bike to most places
[02:04:58] <palowoda> No you go up the food change and find a manager that can solve the problem and communicate thus costing the company more money.
[02:05:12] <dclarke> QUESTION : has anyone here looked at or even tried out the new IPS package thing for project Indiana ??
[02:05:23] <sleepcat> IPS?
[02:05:28] <dclarke> yes
[02:05:31] <sleepcat> what's that?
[02:05:42] <palowoda> Image Package System
[02:05:43] * dclarke that answers my question
[02:05:50] <dclarke> is that Bob ?
[02:05:54] <palowoda> yes
[02:05:58] * dclarke wow
[02:06:13] <dclarke> You Sir are the most senior guy in the whole Solaris community I think
[02:06:14] <sleepcat> image package system.  Haven't really heard of this
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[02:06:25] <palowoda> Nah just old.
[02:06:28] <dclarke> http://opensolaris.org/os/project/pkg/
[02:06:29] * sleepcat thinks google would be appropriate
[02:06:30] * lloy0076 sigh
[02:06:34] <Doc> wait.  they called the packaging system "IPS" ?
[02:06:39] <lloy0076> I am stuck on Ubuntu at the moment.
[02:06:44] <lloy0076> With like 512mb of memory
[02:06:45] <Doc> how braindead is that
[02:06:46] <lloy0076> And it's so slow.
[02:06:52] <dclarke> palowoda: do you still have a machine named fishbutt ? or was it fiver.net ?
[02:07:11] <dclarke> Doc : there is no name yet
[02:07:12] <ghulands> when I do 'ifconfig -a' it isn't showing my ethernet adaptor. How can I find if the system found it and set it up manually?
[02:07:13] <sleepcat> how compatible will it be with RPMs etc?
[02:07:15] <palowoda> My workstation is fishbutt but fiver.net is spongebob.
[02:07:23] <Doc> dclarke: ahh.. that's ok then
[02:07:24] <dclarke> sleepcat: not at all
[02:07:25] <sleepcat> it'd be cool if it could read RPMs
[02:07:35] <palowoda> But I haven't really updated fiver.net lately. Only pictures.
[02:07:56] <sleepcat> linux compatibilty should mean not having to relearn everything
[02:08:00] <palowoda> dclarke: Look at the pkg-discuss mailing list.  It's going through some changes.
[02:08:16] <dclarke> palowoda: it should .. but ..
[02:08:21] <palowoda> I think the svr4 import is the important feature.
[02:08:25] <dclarke> I'm working on backporting it to S10u4
[02:08:31] <dclarke> and then maybe back to S8
[02:09:03] <palowoda> The key is going to be the svr4 package stablity before you try.
[02:09:07] <dclarke> then I'll release it as CSWipkg and people can drag in the software from Blastwave that way
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[02:09:28] <dclarke> its all experimental and evolving
[02:09:29] <palowoda> They also have to solve the pre and post install.
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[02:09:59] <dclarke> no kidding .. in the absence of scripts
[02:10:05] <dclarke> good luck
[02:10:23] <tomww> but one of the intentions is, to have as less as possible scripting... so, everybody asks how much scripting will be possible
[02:10:30] <dclarke> how does one pkg upgrade postgreSQL when the on disk db format changes ?
[02:10:41] <tomww> maybe ignored?
[02:10:47] <jmcp> morning all
[02:10:50] * dclarke nevers ignores you
[02:10:53] <sleepcat> dclarke: pgdump and restore
[02:10:57] <dclarke> jmcp : g'day
[02:11:11] <jmcp> hi
[02:11:12] <sleepcat> one annoying thing about solaris and postgresql is the weird places it installs to
[02:11:13] <dclarke> sleepcat : smarta$$
[02:11:25] <dclarke> sleepcat : all over the place ?
[02:11:26] <jmcp> sleepcat: what's weird about it?
[02:11:38] <sleepcat> it should be to /usr/local/pgsql/
[02:11:47] <dclarke> a new rev is at http://www.blastwave.org/testing
[02:11:47] <sleepcat> and that's it
[02:12:04] <sleepcat> anyplace else is just wrong
[02:12:07] <tomww> the current paths enable install of multiple versions, and thats especially for postgresl a good thing
[02:12:58] <sleepcat> just saying, as a long time postgresql user, it annoys me
[02:13:03] <jmcp> sleepcat: /usr/local has no place in an enterprise environment
[02:13:13] <jmcp> and /usr/local was for stuff that the OS vendor didn't supply, anyway
[02:13:32] <sleepcat> jmcp: are you saying the postgresql guys are all wet?
[02:13:39] * sleepcat goes to #postgresql
[02:14:05] <jmcp> sleepcat: I'm saying that when Sun chose to provide postgresql, Sun decided that it should be installed in a certain place in order to maintain consistency with existing policies
[02:14:25] <tomww> sleepcat: I started with pg95 and have survived multiple database migrations to newer versions, so I like it to have smooth upgrades, each instance separate
[02:14:30] <dclarke> jmcp : a good idea IMO
[02:14:32] <jmcp> and /usr/local is explicitly not somewhere that is included in the list of acceptable places for the vendor to install software
[02:14:37] <jmcp> dclarke: yup
[02:14:50] * dclarke loves PostgreSQL
[02:14:57] * tomww too
[02:14:57] <jmcp> same here
[02:15:03] <jmcp> i use it to run my jroller back end
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[02:15:17] <dclarke> which is why it get homepage space at Blastwave even when it isn't released .. yet
[02:15:38] <sleepcat> jmcp: well, they put it in /usr/local/pgsql/data
[02:15:41] <sleepcat> for the data
[02:15:48] <jmcp> "they" ?
[02:15:48] <sleepcat> and /usr/local/pgsql/bin for the binary bits
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[02:15:53] <sleepcat> jmcp: yup
[02:15:58] <jmcp> who is "they" ?
[02:15:58] <sleepcat> thats the default
[02:16:07] <jmcp> that's the default on non-Solaris, perhaps
[02:16:09] <sleepcat> the PostgreSQL Global Development team
[02:16:12] <jmcp> fine
[02:16:20] <sleepcat> jmcp: its not the default in solaris
[02:16:25] <sleepcat> the default is your way
[02:16:38] <jmcp> care to fill me in on why this is such a problem for you?
[02:16:41] <sleepcat> but if you compile from source it gets put into /usr/local/pgsql/data
[02:17:03] <paulf> building from source, it makes sense to put it in /usr/local
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[02:17:09] <sleepcat> jmcp: its annoying thats all
[02:17:20] <jmcp> sleepcat: I think there are more important things to be annoyed about
[02:17:29] <sleepcat> on my macs, my CentOS  it is in /usr/local/pgsql
[02:17:43] <dclarke> CentOS ?
[02:17:48] <dclarke> a one penny OS ?
[02:17:58] * dclarke has centos here
[02:18:06] <jmcp> sleepcat: if the installed location on Solaris bothers you, pkgrm it and build your own
[02:18:17] <jmcp> it's not as if it's an immutable object which you can't do anything about
[02:18:24] * dclarke pulls up a chair again
[02:18:35] <jmcp> dclarke: if you cluster a hundred of them does that make it DollarOS ?
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[02:18:41] * jmcp goes to get a coffee
[02:18:43] <tomww> dclarke: a new SUNWjet is out
[02:18:50] <dclarke> where ??
[02:18:55] <dclarke> downloadable ?
[02:19:49] <dclarke> what ar the new features ?
[02:20:12] <tomww> don't looked at the pulic pages, only read the mail form the creators
[02:20:23] <sleepcat> jmcp: I do my own build of postgresql anyhow
[02:20:26] <dclarke> k
[02:20:40] <sleepcat> i have a bunch of dtrace probes and I compile it with SUN Studio 12
[02:20:45] <tomww> I'll lokk into it in the next days, I'll drop you a note then
[02:21:53] <dclarke> tomww : thanks man .. I really appreciate it
[02:22:57] <jmcp> sleepcat: are you going to contribute those DTrace probes back upstream?
[02:23:03] <sleepcat> jmcp: no
[02:23:08] <sleepcat> they are too valuable
[02:23:14] <MindDrive> Personally I think /usr/local is an abomination and think it needs to die a fast, painful death, but that's my own opinion and I won't start an argument on it.
[02:23:37] <sleepcat> jmcp: i doubt people will need those dtrace probes
[02:23:43] <jmcp> sleepcat: why?
[02:23:44] <dclarke> MindDrive : you're not alone
[02:23:47] <sleepcat> i just put a bunch in the executor
[02:24:06] <jmcp> so if they're too valuable for you to contribute why do you think others might not find them useful too?
[02:24:07] <sleepcat> so I can peek inside transactions to see how many updates, inserts and such pg is doing
[02:24:17] <sleepcat> very cool stuff
[02:24:38] <jmcp> exactly - and really really handy if you want to perf tune a db instance - so why not contribute them back?
[02:24:54] <sleepcat> jmcp: exposing my code to the light may result in criticizm
[02:25:02] * sleepcat has a fragile ego
[02:25:25] <jmcp> sleepcat: have you looked at some of the code in ON and NWSC?
[02:25:41] <sleepcat> I may.
[02:25:47] <jmcp> don't you think that perhaps a lot of us have fragile egos and are embarrassed by the quality?
[02:25:57] <sleepcat> but I'd prefer to mail them to someone first
[02:26:11] <jmcp> and yet we contribute back to the community because (a) it's the right thing to do, (b) we can get help to fix our code and (c) we can learn something from others
[02:26:16] <jmcp> sleepcat: so do that
[02:26:23] <tomww> please :-)
[02:26:40] <jmcp> take the suggestions on board, re-write if necessary and then push upstream
[02:27:35] <Gman> mail them to josh then :)
[02:27:42] <sleepcat> i also have a bunch of postgresql dtrace scripts for my probes
[02:28:06] <Tpenta> hey glynn
[02:28:54] <jmcp> hi Tpenta, gman
[02:29:05] <Tpenta> james
[02:29:11] <Chipdanc1r> yo
[02:29:16] <Chipdanc1r> oh, damn, you meant *him*
[02:29:32] <Tpenta> :-D
[02:29:48] <Gman> g'day Tpenta, jmcp
[02:29:59] <jmcp> sleepcat: agliodbs lurks here from time to time, and in my experience he's a good person to talk to
[02:30:06] <jmcp> Chipdanc1r: hi
[02:30:18] <Chipdanc1r> hi mcp, how's Beijing coming?
[02:30:35] <jmcp> it's getting colder
[02:30:36] <sleepcat> yeah, I'll go and see if I can create a patch to apply that will incorporate my dtrace probes
[02:30:51] <sleepcat> i'm surprised no one has done more with dtrace
[02:30:52] <Chipdanc1r> well, BNE has felt a lot like summer the past few days
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[02:30:59] <Chipdanc1r> and now we've got rain/thunderstorms
[02:31:21] <sleepcat> i know that Tom Lane (lead postgres dev) is a Mac user, so he now has an opportunity with leopard to use dtrace
[02:31:29] <Tpenta> sleepcat, sorry I'm joining in late in this conversation, are these probesin addition to the probes that are already in postgresSQL ?
[02:31:46] <jmcp> Chipdanc1r: I know - J was scared last night, and codercat was terrified
[02:33:05] * Chipdanc1r likes Leopard-like changes... [eta-carinae:~] jamver% which dtrace
[02:33:15] <Chipdanc1r>  /usr/sbin/dtrace
[02:33:28] <sleepcat> Tpenta: yes
[02:33:33] <Tpenta> cool
[02:33:40] <sleepcat> a lot of them are in the executor
[02:33:55] <sleepcat> allowing you to peek inside transactions and such
[02:33:56] <Tpenta> you probably also should chat with brendang as he's already put some scripts into the toolkit for postgresql
[02:34:16] <Gman> well, talk to josh/agliodbs about getting your patches upstream
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[02:36:47] <sleepcat> yeah i will
[02:37:30] * sleepcat goes to the hot tub
[02:37:34] <sleepcat> brb
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[02:37:51] <noyb> do we need to file a bug/rfe for minor fixes to man pages?
[02:38:07] <jmcp> yeah
[02:38:17] <noyb> bogus
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[02:39:18] <paulf> a patch or updated text would probably speed things along :)
[02:41:00] <noyb> I've found some in the past and I would love to fix them, but it's not clear what to do.  I downloaded the current man pages, but the man page isn't included in that set.  my latest find is in the example of wificonfig.
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[02:42:26] <g4lt-mordant> is htere a "plugin" search ion the totem applet?  I have a DVD that isn't playing on my SB100.  totem whines about not having the right plugin
[02:43:52] <g4lt-mordant> BTW, just as a point, I got the DVD from Fred Meyer and they refused to refund it.  if you shop normally at Fred Meyer, you might want to consider fining another grocery store
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[02:48:32] <Bartman007> g4lt-mordant: that is standard practice for media once the seal has been broken.
[02:48:38] <Bartman007> (at least in the US)
[02:49:00] <g4lt-mordant> Bartman007, maybe, but it doesn't mean I have to tolerate it
[02:49:10] <jmcp> Bart_M: same here in Australia
[02:49:31] <g4lt-mordant> because also standard practice in the USA is for the consumer to blame the person that denied them a refund
[02:50:16] <Bartman007> the part a love is that you don't get to see the license agreement until you have inserted the disc and run the installer.
[02:50:23] <Bartman007> s/a love/I love/
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[02:55:34] <g4lt-mordant> Bartman007, it gets even better, I've never even clicked through, or in fact, done anything other than ATTEMPT to play it
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[02:57:12] <noyb> paulf: so, should I just modify a copy and do a diff and include that diff/patch in my bug report?
[03:00:18] <paulf> noyb: I'm not sure what they'd prefer
[03:00:45] <paulf> I'd guess that anything would be helpful, though
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[03:02:30] <dclarke> ummm .. anyone know what the heck the Studio 12 kit for x86 has a sctipt called "prepare_system" in it ?
[03:03:48] <dclarke> never mind .. there is nothing in the README about it
[03:04:01] * dclarke runs installer -nodisplay
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[03:04:25] <Bartman007> g4lt-mordant: I was speaking specificly about software, sorry.
[03:05:08] <g4lt-mordant> Bartman007, ahh, and in Sun's case, you have to agree BEFORE getting to SDLC
[03:05:47] <Bartman007> g4lt-mordant: providing the agreement at the start is a far better policy than what most companies use.
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[03:29:57] <paulf> Ya know, I'm pleasantly surprised at how easily xVM got XP up and running
[03:30:22] <paulf> I was honestly a little concerned when it froze up booting an ubuntu CD
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[03:34:40] <jmcp> nico: ping
[03:35:28] <Doc> Destination Nick Unreachable
[03:36:37] <Bartman007> Doc: TTL of joke exceeded.
[03:38:34] <Rivelli> naw im still roflmawo
[03:42:18] * Doc holds out his busking tin.  it's bad karma to laugh and not donate!
[03:43:38] * Rivelli already left for dinner, quicker with the basket next time 8)
[03:44:01] * Bartman007 donates two bits, that joke was funny.
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[03:45:59] <dclarke> anyone here looking for new python for Solaris ?
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[03:46:31] <dclarke> its currently buried deep in http://www.blastwave.org/~comand/sparc/5.10/python-2.5.1,REV=2007.10.06-SunOS5.8-sparc-CSW.pkg.gz
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[03:46:51] <dclarke> or x86 version at http://www.blastwave.org/~comand/i386/5.10/python-2.5.1,REV=2007.10.06-SunOS5.8-i386-CSW.pkg.gz
[03:47:02] <dclarke> I'm just looking for people to test it out
[03:48:16] <billybob> Hello, I am completely new to opensolaris, and was wondering if someone could help me understand how to install device drivers, specifically onboard ethernet.
[03:48:29] <dclarke> eek
[03:48:40] <dclarke> for what sort of ethernet ?
[03:48:49] <billybob> onboard VIA GbE
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[03:48:53] <dclarke> its probably supported and ifconfig plumb should load the driver
[03:48:58] <dclarke> VIA ?
[03:49:01] <billybob> scanPCI shows
[03:49:01] <dclarke> hrmmm
[03:49:05] <dclarke> please
[03:49:07] <dclarke> no
[03:49:11] <dclarke> don't post that here
[03:49:20] <dclarke> can you post it to www.rafb.net
[03:49:30] <billybob> wasnt goign to past anything, just my device string ; )
[03:49:45] <dclarke> oh .. sorry
[03:49:46] * billybob is not that dense
[03:49:49] <billybob> ; )
[03:49:58] <dclarke> that was my early noob poster twitch there .. a bit premature
[03:50:05] <dclarke> it happens
[03:50:11] <billybob> anyhoo, VT6120 series
[03:50:17] <dclarke> hrmmm
[03:50:36] <billybob> 6120/6121/6122
[03:51:13] <billybob> ok, so I need to use ifconfig plumb, to load the drivers ?
[03:51:16] <dclarke> damn ..
[03:51:27] <dclarke> I have a pile of VIA stuff here .. but not *that* stuff
[03:51:45] <billybob> well for what its worth, It will work under Ubuntu, and Debian
[03:52:09] <billybob> and I believe BSD also(FreeNAS)
[03:52:29] <dclarke> http://rafb.net/p/6RoGS526.html
[03:52:38] <paulf> g'night
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[03:53:01] <dclarke> see the ton of VIA Technologies stuff there ?
[03:53:10] <dclarke> but the ethernet is RealTek .. go figure
[03:53:21] <dclarke> thought I'd have you covered with info by now .. but nope
[03:53:34] <billybob> I am not possitive, but I think under liux I had to use RT drivers
[03:53:45] <billybob> Linux*
[03:53:55] <Bartman007> then it isn't VIA ethernet...
[03:54:07] <billybob> that is what pciscan shows . . .
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[03:54:09] <dclarke> nope
[03:54:26] <Bartman007> the rge driver sounds like the right one.
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[03:54:57] <dclarke> # modinfo | grep rge
[03:54:59] <dclarke> 143 f96cd000   7708 209   1  rge (Realtek 1Gb Ethernet v1.5)
[03:55:28] <billybob> Ok, so my dimlema is this: since this is my very first time using open Solaris, I have not the slightest idea of how to go about installign the drivers, supposing I even know which ones I had to begin with.
[03:55:40] <Bartman007> the rge driver is included.
[03:56:05] <billybob> ok, and the reason why I am running loopback only ?
[03:56:14] <billybob> because my hardware is not 'supported' ?
[03:56:24] <dclarke> hold on a sec there .. slow down
[03:56:29] <dclarke> I'm doing research for you
[03:56:36] * billybob did google
[03:56:40] <billybob> i found gibberish though
[03:57:26] <dclarke> I found marketing : http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/networking/velocity/vt6120/
[03:57:56] <Bartman007> but he doesn't appear to have a VT6120...
[03:58:13] <dclarke> Bartman007: how do you kow ?
[03:58:22] <Bartman007> oh, wait... you pasted that rafb link.
[03:58:24] <dclarke> sed 's/kow/know/'
[03:58:29] <Bartman007> oops.
[03:58:46] <dclarke> that would be me .. keeping you on your toes :-)
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[03:59:00] * Bartman007 retracts all input and hides in the shadows.
[03:59:12] <billybob> scanpci shows this exactly for device strings --> Via Technologies, INc. VT6120/VT6121/VT6122 Gigabit Ethernet Adapter
[04:00:22] <billybob> if mentioning the motherbaord helps, its an ABIT NF7-S2G, but under drivers for it, they seem confused, or atleast had a couple of varients because they have at least two different drivers for the onboard GbE
[04:00:57] <dclarke> hrmmm
[04:01:06] * dclarke digs
[04:01:21] * dclarke digs into hidden places for .. stuff
[04:01:22] * Bartman007 pastes obligatory link http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/device_drivers/projects/longriver/nic_driver_list/;jsessionid=C4C7499EB43AD87BEA2354CEBCFB2533
[04:01:33] <billybob> also, for what it is worth, the Marvell drivers the yals olist on their page never worked under windows
[04:01:51] <billybob> they also list
[04:02:00] * billybob stabbs his fingers
[04:04:40] <dclarke> http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=160459
[04:05:27] <dclarke> what does sddt say ?  http://www.blastwave.org/dclarke/blog/?q=node/74
[04:06:04] <jmcp> billybob: I thought gdamore was working on a driver for that chip, but I can't find the email I was thinking of. in the meantime, http://homepage2.nifty.com/mrym3/taiyodo/eng/ and look for the "vel" driver
[04:07:23] <billybob> jmcp: hmmm I see two archives
[04:07:35] <jmcp> use the 2.x version
[04:08:16] <billybob> much thanks : )
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[04:08:28] <jmcp> you're welcome
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[04:08:35] <billybob> now the clueless part
[04:08:48] <billybob> what tool do I have availible to install these ?
[04:08:53] <billybob> tools*
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[04:09:47] <jmcp> extract the gzipped tarball, then run the included adddrv script and "make install"
[04:10:15] <jmcp> billybob: Murayama also provides "make pkg" or "make package" so you can create a pkg file to run pkgadd(1m) on
[04:10:37] <billybob> smells of APT ; )
[04:10:50] <billybob> (which is nto nessisarly a bad thing)
[04:11:09] <jmcp> kinda, but not really
[04:11:18] <jmcp> Murayama is just incredibly thoughtful :-)
[04:11:21] * billybob hopes that OS will detect his USB thumb drive
[04:12:19] <jmcp> it should - have a look under /media
[04:12:59] <noyb> paulf: thanks
[04:13:05] <billybob> its been a while since I have even tpyed with Linux . . .so If I seem completely clueless, please go easy one me :/
[04:13:19] <jmcp> you ain't clueless :)
[04:13:30] <jmcp> and at least you're asking questions
[04:13:54] <billybob> well, I beleive in rtfm, but . . .I have no idea where to even begin
[04:13:57] <jmcp> some people turn up here, rant about how they can't get XYZ to work, and when denizens try to help they get knocked back
[04:14:00] <jmcp> :)
[04:14:10] <billybob> I see lots of excellent things in os, if they are as Sun claims they are
[04:14:12] <jmcp> opensolaris.org/os/community/immigrants might help
[04:14:15] <jmcp> oh, they are :)
[04:14:58] <billybob> I still wont give up my gaming rig os*cough* ; )
[04:15:18] * jmcp shrugs
[04:15:40] <jmcp> I still like using photoshop for my image processing
[04:16:25] <billybob> once you've used it, and understand how it works, there really *is* no alternative.
[04:16:36] * billybob is also an inspirering retoucher
[04:17:15] <billybob> ok, so wow
[04:17:32] <billybob> let me see if I can get a grip on this(thumb showed and windows popped up)
[04:17:41] <billybob> window*
[04:17:42] <jmcp> cool
[04:17:52] <jmcp> look under /media for the thumbdrive
[04:18:01] * billybob nods
[04:18:49] <jmcp> unless your name is Dave - because it's hal which monitors removable media :-)
[04:19:14] <billybob> ruh row
[04:19:23] * jmcp hides
[04:19:24] <jmcp> :-)
[04:19:29] <billybob> seems solaris and windows media naming conventions dont jive
[04:19:42] <billybob> NEW VOLUME
[04:19:58] <billybob> ^^ error on space character in name : /
[04:20:39] <jmcp> escape it
[04:20:44] <jmcp>  /media/NEW\ VOLUME/
[04:20:53] <billybob> ok
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[04:22:54] <flyingparchment> or "/media/NEW VOLUME"
[04:24:05] <dclarke> time to take a break and play HALO3
[04:24:09] * dclarke away
[04:29:37] <billybob> grrr
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[04:29:46] <billybob> kep getting a checksum error
[04:31:34] <e^ipi> ahoy
[04:31:45] <billybob> that archive seems corrupt jmcp
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[04:33:34] <billybob> heh, one other site I found it on, the file there is also corrupt : /
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[04:37:54] <jmcp> billybob: corrupt how?
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[04:38:06] * jmcp downloads it too...
[04:38:08] <billybob> well I was using tar, and not guntar
[04:38:15] <billybob> ill try it again once the machine reboots
[04:38:24] <billybob> it locked up when I removed the thumb drive . . .
[04:39:02] <jmcp> weird
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[04:39:18] <jmcp> try copying the file to /tmp and then run /usr/bin/gunzip -fc vel*gz|/usr/bin/tar xf -
[04:39:21] <billybob> yes
[04:39:22] <jmcp> off for lunch
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[04:47:46] <flyingparchment>    PID USERNAME  SIZE   RSS STATE  PRI NICE      TIME  CPU PROCESS/NLWP
[04:47:47] <flyingparchment>  15468 fisheye  1040M  965M sleep   59    0  56:20:02 4.7% java/1308
[04:47:50] <flyingparchment> ... that's a lot of threads
[04:48:23] <jbk> i've seen poorly written weblogic apps create more
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[05:01:36] <gnut> hi all
[05:01:54] <gnut> I'm trying to set up my opensolaris machine to send print jobs to a remote cups server (on a FreeBSD machine)
[05:02:24] <gnut> There's a ton of information on the web on a million different ways to do this, and I can't get any of them to work
[05:02:33] <gnut> maybe it's a magical combination of parameters to be set that's needed.
[05:02:58] <gnut> I created the /etc/printers.conf to point to a local print queue on my laptop
[05:03:15] <gnut> and then used lpadmin to set up a configuration file under /etc/lp/printers/samsung/configuration
[05:03:33] <gnut> so /etc/printers.conf points to ipp://localhost/printers/samsung (local print queue)
[05:04:27] <gnut> and /etc/lp/printers/samsung/configuration shows ipp://server/printers/Samsung... so even though it does print, I can't get any of the options I set to stick (such as no banner)
[05:05:00] <gnut> and printing from evince works for pdf's (without banners) but printing from ps from evince has banners
[05:05:13] <gnut> lpr doesn't work, but gives me garbage when i send ps over
[05:05:22] <gnut> anyone have ideas?
[05:05:58] <gnut> I'm probably talking to myself :) but it's okay.
[05:06:01] <gnut> This is what I have:
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[05:06:05] <gnut> samsung:\
[05:06:05] <gnut>         :printer-uri-supported=ipp\://localhost/printers/samsung:\
[05:06:05] <gnut>         :bsdaddr=localhost,samsung,Solaris:
[05:06:05] <gnut> _default:\
[05:06:05] <gnut>         :use=samsung:
[05:06:10] <gnut> for /etc/printers.conf
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[05:09:20] <gnut> Banner: off
[05:09:20] <gnut> Content types: postscript
[05:09:20] <gnut> Device: ipp://server/printers/Samsung
[05:09:20] <gnut> Interface: /usr/lib/lp/model/uri
[05:09:20] <gnut> Printer type: PS
[05:09:21] <gnut> Modules:
[05:09:23] <gnut> Options:
[05:09:25] <gnut> PPD: /usr/share/ppd/SUNWfoomatic/Samsung/Samsung-CLP-550.ppd.gz
[05:09:31] <gnut> that's my /etc/lp/printers/samsung/configuration
[05:11:56] <e^ipi> where's the new project proposal procedure docs?
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[05:16:02] <jmcp> flyingparchment: 1308 lwps!
[05:16:48] <jmcp> gnut: if you want to send print jobs to a remote host, why are you setting up a local queue?
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[05:17:35] <gnut> jmcp: i thought it would make it more uniform for if i had a windows remote printer without a queue
[05:17:52] <gnut> that's how I always thought it had to be done :)
[05:17:56] <jmcp> oh
[05:17:57] <gnut> let me try without a local quue
[05:18:22] <gnut> jmcp: I got the start by using printmgr and then adding network printer
[05:18:41] <jmcp> I'd have something like this for a printers.conf then::          samsumg: :bsdaddr=remotehost,queuename,Solaris:
[05:18:44] <gnut> it created /etc/printers.conf for me, and that had ipp://localhost/printers/samsung... that's why I thought that's how it was done normally.
[05:18:49] <jmcp> oh
[05:19:13] <jmcp> I've never like the SysV printing config
[05:19:26] <gnut> do you use cups?
[05:19:31] <jmcp> nope
[05:19:45] <gnut> heh :) I assume you have a remote printer, how do you set things up?
[05:19:49] <jmcp> at work I use the print queues that are setup in the office
[05:19:52] <gnut> I have no real affiliation nor desire to use cups
[05:19:55] <jmcp> me neither
[05:20:08] <gnut> but I just want something that works for printing pdf/ps and then web pages
[05:20:15] <jmcp> at home I've got a lexmark networked laser (yay ebay) so I installed Lexmark's mgmt software and run that
[05:20:22] <jmcp> gotta say, I do like the Lexmark software
[05:20:23] <jmcp> yeah
[05:20:26] <jmcp> um
[05:20:27] <billybob> wow solaris is really touchy . . .
[05:20:30] <jmcp> lessee now
[05:20:37] <jmcp> billybob: yeah, it cares who you touch with it
[05:20:38] <billybob> OS locks up whem I remove the ethernet cable ?!
[05:20:42] <gnut> so the mgmt software for your lexmark uses ipp?
[05:20:57] <gnut> billybob: that doesn't happen with me
[05:21:10] <billybob> i suspect it shouldnt happen period.
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[05:22:26] <billybob> jmcp anyhow I think I sort of got the ethernet working
[05:22:33] <billybob> couldnt ping outside IPs though for some reason
[05:23:22] <jmcp> billybob: got a default route setup? edited /etc/resolv.conf? and /etc/nsswitch.conf? run "svcadm restart name-service-cache dns/client" ?
[05:23:31] <jmcp> gnut: no, it uses good old lpd :-)
[05:23:48] <jmcp> IBM at least groks SysV printing properly
[05:24:03] <billybob> jmcp: I know nothing about all that
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[05:24:14] <billybob> just test loaded the drivers, and bough vel0 up
[05:24:29] <billybob> I could ping internal IPs though
[05:24:36] <jmcp> #define internal please
[05:24:44] <billybob> local network
[05:24:50] <jmcp> run "netstat -rn"
[05:24:54] <jmcp> do you have a default route?
[05:24:58] <niuq> hi, a pentium 4 2.5 with 1gb ram / 40 hd / no video card supports solaris developer edition?
[05:24:59] <gnut> jmcp: I reconfigured things using the "Add Access to printer" option in printmgr instead of "Add network printer"
[05:25:02] <gnut> we'll see if this works :)
[05:25:03] <billybob> had to restart the machine
[05:25:08] <flyingparchment> niuq: yes
[05:25:09] <billybob> AGAIN
[05:25:12] <jmcp> gnut: good luck
[05:25:17] <billybob> so now i need to load the drivers agin
[05:25:24] <niuq> it's a ddr not ddr2
[05:25:27] <flyingparchment> niuq: do you mean no video at all, or some onboard thing?
[05:25:32] <jmcp> billybob: really? did you run the make install / adddrv.sh script ?
[05:25:39] <billybob> yeah
[05:25:55] <jmcp> then why do you think you need to load the drivers again?
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[05:26:19] <niuq> <flyingparchment>: it's a shared memory, i dont have a dedicated video card
[05:26:30] <billybob> becasue the device is not showing up now
[05:26:47] <jmcp> billybob: run "ifconfig vel0 plumb"
[05:27:08] <jmcp> then run "ifconfig -au"
[05:27:19] <billybob> device does not exist
[05:27:32] <billybob> the driver fiels dont even exist
[05:27:41] <jmcp> then you didn't install the drivers properly
[05:28:00] <billybob> I HAD to do a manual restart though machine locked up fter I removed/reinserte the ethernet cable
[05:28:16] <billybob> no I think maintanence removed the files
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[05:28:27] <niuq> <flyingparchment>: didn't get it?
[05:28:33] <flyingparchment> niuq: that's fine
[05:28:56] <niuq> <flyingparchment>: ok ^_^), thank you
[05:29:08] <jmcp> billybob: running 64bit or 32bit?
[05:29:14] <niuq> <flyingparchment>: i think i'll have a fun
[05:30:30] <billybob> x32
[05:30:43] <billybob> sorry juggleing two different systems, and keyboards etc
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[05:31:15] <billybob> jmcp: anyhow I followed the readme
[05:31:24] <billybob> for testing before installation
[05:31:34] * jmcp re-reads the readme
[05:32:42] <gnut> okay. now I can print from pdf/ps from evince without banners!
[05:32:45] <jmcp> billybob: so you ran the "modload obj/vel" ?
[05:32:48] <jmcp> gnut: :-D
[05:32:57] <gnut> BUT... when I try to print from firefox, (no banners), I get the postscript code
[05:33:10] <gnut> lpr works (but with banners), but I do lpr -h to suppress that on the command line
[05:33:24] <billybob> jmcp: yes
[05:33:28] <flyingparchment> if you don't print a banner, how will you know whose print job it is?!
[05:33:31] <gnut> I have under the print menu in firefox (lpr -h)... and it just spits out the postscript code...
[05:33:32] <jmcp> billybob: did you run "make install" ?
[05:33:49] <billybob> jmcp: hold on, let me do a few things here
[05:33:52] <gnut> flyingparchment: you don't. that's the beauty of it... people have to figure out who printed what... you know. make them think a bit.
[05:33:58] <billybob> kind of hard to talk here, and configure ; )
[05:34:34] <gnut> anyway, i can't print from firefox... it just spits out CODE!!!
[05:34:37] <billybob> what ?! no nano ?!
[05:34:42] <jmcp> billybob: correct
[05:34:44] <billybob> vi only ?
[05:34:45] <jmcp> there's vi
[05:34:46] <jmcp> yeah
[05:34:51] <billybob> grrr i hate vi
[05:34:54] <flyingparchment> gnut: that's the idea - you have to figure out what you printed... ;)
[05:35:04] <gnut> flyingparchment: heh :)
[05:35:27] <jmcp> billybob: once you've got vel working properly you can pull down nano yourself :-)
[05:35:39] <billybob> ...
[05:36:24] <jmcp> patience ... we're getting there
[05:36:47] <bda> vel?
[05:36:48] <billybob> yeah , right now I am trying to find resolve.conf so I can edit it in X lol
[05:37:01] <billybob> velocity ethernet drivers . .
[05:37:04] <bda> ah
[05:37:48] <jmcp> billybob: ok, so with a correct resolv.conf you now need to add "dns" to the "hosts" line in /etc/nsswitch.conf
[05:37:58] <jmcp> then run     "svcadm restart name-service-cache dns/client"
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[05:38:44] <billybob> silly quewstion
[05:38:58] <billybob> what the heck am I supposed to have in the resolv.conf ?
[05:39:22] <billybob> bah I am getting ahead of myself
[05:39:29] <billybob> man this is frustrating
[05:39:51] <jmcp> just like on linux or *bsd - nameserver, search and domain lines
[05:39:52] <billybob> I realy like gedit btw
[05:40:09] <gnut> argh! too much postscript code printed out!
[05:40:12] <gnut> hmmm
[05:40:13] <jmcp> it has its moments
[05:40:22] <billybob> name server ?
[05:40:29] <billybob> and if I do not have one ?
[05:40:42] <jmcp> so my resolv.conf for home is              nameserver 192.168.1.30 \n nameserver 192.168.1.1 \n domain jmcp.homeunix.com
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[05:40:55] <jmcp> most dsl routers also function as nameservevrs
[05:41:06] <billybob> we use a linksys router
[05:41:38] <jmcp> that should work
[05:41:47] <jmcp> so if you know the IP of it, set that in your resolv.conf
[05:42:02] <flyingparchment> your router is probably a DHCP server, that's easier than manual configuration
[05:42:07] <billybob> dont recall ever having to do that before but . . .
[05:42:13] <billybob> ill give it a go
[05:42:22] <jmcp> trust us, we've been there before
[05:42:32] <jmcp> ... which is exactly why you're asking questions here
[05:43:00] <billybob> well I meant, for ubuntu, and debian I dont think I had to do that
[05:43:06] <billybob> but i could be rusty
[05:43:15] <jmcp> can't speak for either of those distros
[05:43:18] <billybob> and forgetfull
[05:43:33] <jmcp> except that last time I installed debian (3.0 iirc) I did have to specify the dns server
[05:43:36] <billybob> see, this is why i never futzed aroudn with BSD much ; )
[05:43:40] <billybob> lol
[05:43:43] <jmcp> ha!
[05:43:48] <flyingparchment> ubuntu will dhcp by default.. debian probably asked you during the install (or you did dhcp there too)
[05:44:14] <billybob> well i would put gateway xxxxxx etc
[05:44:31] <billybob> anyhew, I see the point
[05:44:31] <jmcp> neat
[05:44:33] <bda> /etc/defaultrouter
[05:45:01] * billybob scrolls up
[05:45:07] <bda> Also, every modern F/OSS OS/distro can DHCP at install. Some do it by default, but most ask.
[05:45:45] * flyingparchment wonders how to make netbeans use the gtk l&f
[05:46:53] <flyingparchment> ah, --laf
[05:46:56] <billybob> jmcp: ok, so change hosts -> files to hosts -> dns yes ?
[05:47:17] * bda actually has to do this now on a VM install. :)
[05:47:30] <bda> Forgot my JS image was on my laptop when I blew it away for Leopard (oops).
[05:47:39] <billybob> I feel like a complete idot here
[05:47:59] <jmcp> billybob: I'd use      hosts: files dns
[05:48:05] <jmcp> you're not an idiot
[05:48:33] <billybob> thanks, and I know that, but . . .
[05:48:40] <billybob> lol
[05:48:43] <jmcp> you'll get over it :)
[05:49:19] * billybob is guilty of spending entirerly too much time on that 'evil' OS
[05:49:45] * jmcp shrugs
[05:50:05] <billybob> ok
[05:50:16] <billybob> so should I restart over with testing the driver ?
[05:52:46] <jmcp> let's get a quick recap of what point you're at
[05:53:07] <jmcp> do you have /kernel/drv/vel?
[05:53:18] <billybob> hmm strange
[05:53:35] <billybob> pci identifier is already in use
[05:53:42] <jmcp> that's ok
[05:53:47] <jmcp> you ran the adddrv.sh script, yeah?
[05:53:52] <billybob> yeah
[05:54:02] <billybob>  -a
[05:54:07] <billybob> oops
[05:54:08] <jmcp> then don't worry about that message
[05:54:19] <jmcp> now run    /sbin/bootadm update-archive
[05:54:34] <jmcp> that will update your grub boot archive to include vel
[05:54:42] <jmcp> do you have an /etc/hostname.vel0 file ?
[05:55:05] <billybob> not yet
[05:55:37] <jmcp> ok, create one which has your hostname (*NOT* the fully qualified version, just the hostname) in it
[05:55:54] <jmcp> make sure that that hostname appears in your /etc/hosts file along with an IP address
[05:56:07] <jmcp> you should also run  "svcadm disable svc:/network/default:nwam" too
[05:56:42] <bda> http://nopaste.snit.ch:8001/11453
[05:56:55] <bda> Dunno how much of that you've run through already. Watching a horrible movie. :)
[05:57:37] <jmcp> bda: hey, that's really handy, thankyo
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[06:00:23] <e^ipi> hmm... ruby... or struts2
[06:00:45] <e^ipi> either way I have to learn something, but I'm a busy guy so the learning curve should be shallow
[06:00:52] <e^ipi> suggestions?
[06:00:55] <bda> Ruby is pretty dang easy.
[06:01:08] <e^ipi> ( not PHP... i'm not touching that with a 3m pole)
[06:01:17] <bda> Ruby is also really neat. :)
[06:01:20] <flyingparchment> e^ipi: i'd say struts, but mainly because i don't know ruby
[06:02:33] <e^ipi> i have a slight preference towards j2ee, but only because I think it's a worthy thing to know, future job-prospect wise
[06:02:46] <e^ipi> not that i'm particularly thrilled about doing web work
[06:02:51] <flyingparchment> yeah, there are only like 3 billion j2ee developers already ;)
[06:02:52] <e^ipi> but i gots to get paid
[06:03:11] <bda> Come on, stupid VM. Boot up.
[06:03:15] <e^ipi> flyingparchment: and a lot of companies that hire them
[06:03:21] <e^ipi> ruby... not so much
[06:05:02] <flyingparchment> j2ee has the advantage that it's very popular.. if you want software to do something, it's probably available
[06:05:06] <billybob> ok, system is rebooting
[06:05:21] <billybob> hopefully this'll work
[06:05:49] <billybob> oh so its just going to sit there flashing the cursor at me . . .
[06:05:56] <billybob> ah there we go.
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[06:06:52] <jmcp> what do you see?
[06:06:55] <billybob> hmmm
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[06:07:01] <billybob> exit status 96
[06:07:07] <billybob> physical network failed
[06:07:25] <jmcp> first check - network is connected?
[06:07:28] <jmcp> :)
[06:07:37] * jmcp always starts with the basics
[06:07:41] <billybob> eh ?
[06:07:42] <bda> jmcp: It shouldn't fail that service if it's just unplugged.
[06:07:47] <billybob> cable it plugged in
[06:07:48] <jmcp> bda: true, true
[06:07:51] <jmcp> billybob: good
[06:07:56] <bda> Probably a misconfig or the driver is unhappy.
[06:08:12] <jmcp> so login and have  alook in /var/adm/messages for messages from the driver
[06:08:24] <billybob> ok
[06:08:33] <bda> svcs -xv || tail /var/svc/log/network-physical\:default.log || tail /var/adm/messages
[06:08:39] <billybob> so the card now shows under network settings
[06:08:40] <billybob> (GUI)
[06:08:45] <billybob> but is not enabled
[06:09:06] <jmcp> bda: really?
[06:09:13] <bda> Hopefully just a typo in a config file. :)
[06:09:14] <jmcp> billybob: fire up a terminal window
[06:09:15] <bda> Really what?
[06:09:20] <jmcp> bda: your syntax
[06:09:23] <bda> oh.
[06:09:33] <bda> No, || as in "or". :)
[06:09:38] <billybob> one second
[06:09:38] <jmcp> billybob: which service was it that was faulted?
[06:09:41] <jmcp> bda: oh right
[06:09:49] <jmcp> I thought you might have meant that but wasn't sure
[06:09:55] <bda> Sorry. :)
[06:09:58] <billybob> var/log/messeges ?
[06:10:13] <bda> /var/adm/messages or /var/log/network-physical:default.log.
[06:10:16] <john--__> any of you played with xVM yet?
[06:10:22] <bda> Or `svcs -xv` will probably give you useful information.
[06:10:45] <billybob> ok, something is borked
[06:10:52] <billybob> terminal refuses to open
[06:10:55] <jmcp> billybob: /var/log/syslog is where sendmail dumps its messages, and /var/adm/messages is for just about everything else
[06:10:59] <bda> err. /var/svc/log, not /var/log.
[06:11:08] * bda should just watch his movie. :)
[06:11:15] <jmcp> billybob: try running /usr/openwin/bin/xterm
[06:11:48] <jmcp> hit <meta>R or launch->all applications->run application
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[06:12:11] <jmcp> you've probably got a delay waiting for a nameservice lookup response
[06:13:04] <billybob> nothing
[06:13:27] <billybob> cant I CTRL + Fx ?
[06:13:36] <jmcp> nope
[06:13:47] <billybob> damnit
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[06:16:17] <billybob> ok, so how do I correct this ?
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[06:16:23] <billybob> I cannot open a terminal
[06:16:34] <billybob> cant open another terminal
[06:16:57] <jmcp> billybob: sounds like the easiest way would be to logout from this session, then choose "command line login" from the "options" and then login as root
[06:17:15] <jmcp> then you'll at least have a shell
[06:17:16] <billybob> what did I do wrong ?
[06:17:38] <sponix> anyone here have a Dell M90 Laptop ?
[06:18:15] <jmcp> billybob: I don't think you did anything wrong, there's probably just some config piece which we need to verify and perhaps change
[06:18:43] <billybob> ok Im in CLI
[06:18:52] <billybob> what was it I was suppoed to be doing ?
[06:18:53] <billybob> lol
[06:18:57] <jmcp> are you ok with using bash?
[06:19:04] <jmcp> run "/bin/bash "
[06:19:24] <billybob> okie
[06:19:31] <jmcp> ok, let's start with the interface first
[06:19:33] <jmcp> run "ifconfig -au"
[06:19:54] <billybob> loop device only showing
[06:20:15] <jmcp> hmm
[06:20:15] <jmcp> you've got /etc/hostname.vel0 ?
[06:20:28] <billybob> yes
[06:20:34] <billybob> with just my hostname in it
[06:20:43] <billybob> let me ls to make sure its spelled right
[06:20:46] <jmcp> ok
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[06:20:59] <jmcp> try    ifconfig vel0 plumb
[06:21:29] <billybob> says it already exists
[06:21:40] <jmcp> exact message please
[06:22:09] <billybob> ifconfig" SIOCSLIFNAME for ip: vel0: already exists
[06:22:12] <jmcp> ok, ta
[06:22:18] <jmcp> and what does "grep localhost /etc/hosts" show?
[06:23:26] <billybob> ::1 locahost loghost darkstar \n 127.0.0.1 localhost loghost darkstar
[06:24:21] <billybob>  i would preffer to use DHCP for assigning an IP
[06:24:25] <billybob> so . . .
[06:24:35] <billybob> I did not put a static IP in there
[06:24:56] <jmcp> oh, right
[06:25:16] <jmcp> I'm not sure how to prevent dhcp from assigning you with a hostname
[06:25:31] <jmcp> but I do know that having a hostname other than localhost on localhosts' line will cause much networking pain
[06:25:46] * jmcp goes to check docs.sun.com
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[06:27:21] <sponix> docs.sun.com rocks... I had people give me the link before, but I just started to find things the other day, OMG got a pdf called "user commands" its 1,900+ pages
[06:27:48] <billybob> lol
[06:27:49] <jmcp> ok, so running with dhcp you need to have /etc/dhcp.vel0
[06:28:07] <jmcp> sponix: that's probably all of /usr/bin, /usr/sbin and /sbin listed
[06:28:31] <billybob> and hostname in that file ? or empty ?
[06:28:32] <jmcp> billybob: I think you should run    "touch /etc/dhcp.vel0 ; svcadm restart network/physical:default"
[06:28:39] <jmcp> that should get us further along
[06:28:55] * billybob switches keyboard again
[06:29:24] <sponix> jmcp:  at least close, it covers down on awk, grep, tons of shells, you name it, got things in there I've never even heard of -- audiorecord for example
[06:30:00] <billybob> okie
[06:30:14] <billybob> its up now
[06:30:31] <billybob> although
[06:30:34] <billybob> wropng ip
[06:30:39] <billybob> locahost IP
[06:30:42] <billybob> loopback*
[06:30:51] <jmcp> did you remove the hostname from localhost line in /etc/hosts ?
[06:30:59] <billybob> hmm I thik i see a mac though
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[06:31:19] <billybob> jmcp huh ?
[06:31:20] <jmcp> quick, run away before the mac tries to convert you!
[06:31:35] <billybob> oh
[06:31:40] <billybob> hmm ok
[06:31:46] <billybob> no i did not
[06:31:55] <billybob> grrr
[06:31:58] * billybob smells vi
[06:32:18] <jmcp> :)
[06:32:47] <billybob> ok which line now ?
[06:32:54] <billybob> top line yes ?
[06:32:57] <billybob> ::1 line ?
[06:33:02] <jmcp> the line which has your hostname listed on it
[06:33:14] <jmcp> or rather, *any* line which has localhost and your hostname
[06:33:19] <billybob> both lines have my hostname
[06:33:26] <billybob> ok
[06:33:50] <billybob> gah
[06:33:54] <billybob> please bear with me . ..
[06:33:57] <gnut> hmmm
[06:34:04] <billybob> whats the key combo for edit in vi again ?
[06:34:11] <billybob> ! what ?
[06:34:11] <gnut> why does my printer think that web pages should be converted to postscript code then printed as postscript?
[06:34:29] <sponix> billybob:  "man vi"
[06:34:32] <jmcp> billybob: you need to use "x" to kill chars, then :w!  to write out the changes
[06:35:14] <sponix> or install vim and use vimtutor it will teach you the basics
[06:35:43] <sponix> jmcp:  got time for a couple silly questions ?
[06:35:54] <jmcp> gnut: always
[06:35:58] <jmcp> sponix: always
[06:36:05] <jmcp> fire away
[06:36:20] <sponix> Wine work on Solaris ?
[06:36:35] <jmcp> sometimes I think it does
[06:36:36] <gnut> always?
[06:36:45] <jmcp> gnut: sorry, I mistyped
[06:36:51] <billybob> sponix: thanks for the help there, although man vi while editing a file is not realy possible . .
[06:36:54] <billybob> anyhew
[06:36:59] <billybob> jmcp: all done
[06:37:00] <jmcp> sponix: I have seen it working, but I don't use it
[06:37:01] <sponix> looking to run dvdshrink on SXDE b70 x86
[06:37:10] <jmcp> billybob: ok, re-try the svcadm resrart
[06:37:29] <sponix> billybob:  it is if you have screen installed/working ;)
[06:37:57] <billybob> wrong runlevel . ..
[06:38:24] <sponix> jmcp:  next... know of any way to force dma modes on a drive, similar to hdparm on linux ?
[06:38:30] <jmcp> sponix: nope
[06:38:44] <jmcp> and I trust Solaris' abillity to handle dma more than I do linux's
[06:39:08] <billybob> still loopback ip
[06:39:34] <jmcp> billybob: run svcs -l network/physical:default
[06:39:37] <jmcp> what's the status ?
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[06:39:54] <sponix> jmcp:  well its not really Solaris screwing this up, its my IDE controller cards. Honestly, they have a bios flash rev that should fix it, but I can't flash until I get a monitor/keyboard on the box
[06:40:01] <jmcp> ow
[06:40:24] <sponix> billybob:  what's your issue/problem ?
[06:40:50] <billybob> doesnt match any instances
[06:41:39] <billybob> trying to get this VIA Velocity driver working . . .
[06:42:25] <jmcp> billybob: how about     svcs -l svc:/network/physical:default
[06:42:26] <billybob> and I am about to give up for now
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[06:43:15] <billybob> jmcp: give me a few, I need a break
[06:43:28] <jmcp> ok
[06:47:12] <billybob> hmm hosts is empty now
[06:47:57] * jmcp growls @ dhcp
[06:48:14] <billybob> so is resolve.conf
[06:48:15] <jmcp> that's one of the "features" I've noticed about dhcp
[06:48:23] <jmcp> there's no trailing "e" btw
[06:48:26] * jmcp pedants
[06:48:33] <jmcp> billybob: are you *sure* you want to use dhcp?
[06:49:11] <billybob> I dont have to
[06:49:29] <billybob> whats the param order again ?
[06:49:45] <billybob> hostname IP ?
[06:50:32] <jmcp> in /etc/hosts?  it's IPaddr hostname aliases
[06:57:27] <gnut> phew!
[06:57:29] <gnut> figured it out
[06:57:56] <gnut> to convince cups not to think that my web pages shoud be converted to text from postscript, I just used lp -T postscript
[06:57:59] <billybob> whats the solaris equivelent to /etc/newrok/interfaces ?
[06:58:05] <billybob> network*
[06:58:32] <jmcp> billybob: what is /etc/network/interfaces?
[06:58:41] <noyb> billybob: is that from linux?
[06:58:48] <billybob> yes.
[06:58:50] <gnut> yeah. it's the list of interfaces
[06:58:57] * noyb fires up ubuntu image...
[06:59:10] <flyingparchment> billybob: /etc/hostname.*, /etc/defaultrouter
[06:59:18] <flyingparchment> hostname.* contains the IP, defaultrouter has the gateway
[06:59:19] <gnut> and dhcp.*
[07:00:50] <billybob> man I am starting to ge treally perturbed
[07:01:00] <billybob> now my friggen files are locked read only
[07:02:43] <billybob> ok, so for instance hostname.vel0 would contain  <ip> <whitespace> <hostname> ?
[07:02:50] <noyb> I would agree with /etc/hostname.*   That's the closest thing to this interfaces file that came to mind when I saw it.  man interfaces says it's for "ifup" and "ifdown" of which there is no equiv. in solaris.  (in my experience anyway)
[07:03:05] <flyingparchment> the closest to ifdown/ifup is probably svcadm restart network/physical
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[07:03:26] <billybob> ifconfig up/down does work though ; )
[07:03:33] <noyb> yes
[07:06:19] <jmcp> billybob: no, /etc/hostname.vel0 *only* contains your hostname. it's /etc/hosts which contains <ip> <hostname> pairs
[07:06:39] <noyb> but this interfaces business appears to be pretty rich  with features like what to do when an interface achieves upness...  run this script before putting the interface down.  or run this after interf. is up...  kinda cool.
[07:07:39] * noyb shuts down ubuntu image to avoid feature envy...  :-)
[07:07:44] <billybob> still no joy on external network connections
[07:08:05] <billybob> well, I see a lot of good in solaris, but man
[07:08:22] <billybob> configuring my friggen ethernet connection should NOT be this difficult
[07:08:55] <billybob> jmcp: pehap I could talk you into some example files ?
[07:09:23] <billybob> or anyone for that matter
[07:09:34] <jmcp> billybob: my /etc/hostname.vfe0 has the single word "broken"
[07:09:39] <jmcp> (I use the vfe driver)
[07:10:15] <jmcp> and my /etc/hosts contains two lines -     127.0.0.1 localhost \n 192.168.1.15 broken
[07:10:16] <jmcp> \n == newline
[07:10:17] <billybob> all I really need to know if the name of the files that need modification, and approx values needed for each file
[07:10:30] <jmcp> billybob: when you ran the installer, what options did you choose for networking?
[07:10:45] <billybob> my card was not detected remember ?
[07:10:56] <billybob> I had to manually install the ethernet.
[07:11:06] <jmcp> ah, right
[07:11:19] <jmcp> ok, so you might actually be better off right now by run     /usr/sbin/sys-unconfig
[07:11:24] <jmcp> read the manpage before you do that
[07:11:33] <sponix> oh... so we are doing a basic net setup ?
[07:11:36] <jmcp> sponix: yeah
[07:11:55] <sponix> jmcp:  Let me see if my PDF for that is on this drive
[07:12:04] <jmcp> billybob: sys-unconfig will reset your networking and hostname to a default "unknown" state, and query you on the reboot for the correct settings
[07:12:26] <billybob> jmcp: will it effect my drivers ?
[07:12:29] <sponix> I always forget to cp nsswitch.conf nsswitch.conf.org && cp nsswitch.dns nsswitch.conf
[07:12:36] <jmcp> since you now have the vel driver installed, the system *should* allow you to set the networking settings correctly
[07:12:43] <jmcp> billybob: affect the drivers in what way?
[07:12:45] <jmcp> it won't delete them
[07:13:01] <jmcp> it won't delete the driver config files, and it won't delete the alias from /etc/driver_aliases
[07:13:17] <sponix> So, I end up with a working NIC and even after I put in the default rought it still doesn't let me surf, but will ping with icmp -- very strange ;)
[07:14:24] <jmcp> sponix: my issue with upgrades is that I've got some seriously customised autofs files done with symlinks, and anytime I upgrade I have to login as root first, recreate the symlink and then restart autofs
[07:14:31] <jmcp> otherwise I can't find my homedir :)
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[07:16:55] <billybob> all this trouble, and I could have been done full configuring debian, and have been playing FEAR, or world in conflcit for the last several hours . . .
[07:17:18] <billybob> kind of dissapointing, because I see a lot of really cool features in nv75
[07:18:20] <jmcp> billybob: you would have had similar joys if you were running any other OS where the driver for your nic was not included
[07:18:36] <billybob> not really
[07:18:59] <noyb> billybob: first impressions are difficult to shake off.  I hope you don't write off solaris based on this horrible networking experience.  It really does go well for most of us.  what hardware are you on?
[07:19:00] <sponix> billybob:  what NIC driver are you using ?
[07:19:27] <billybob> mainly because the preffered distro of choice for me is widely documented, with literally thousands of google hits per keyword search
[07:19:38] <billybob> VIA velocity GbE
[07:19:47] <sponix> I always have to build my NIC drivers, install them, plumb them, blah blah ...
[07:20:09] <sponix> does get old
[07:20:38] <noyb> billybob: on a white box pc?
[07:20:42] <billybob> i just did that sys-uninstall
[07:20:49] <jmcp> billybob: unconfig
[07:20:59] <billybob> dont care, if this does nto fix it, I will wait for Solaris to mature.
[07:21:27] <noyb> as I was saying...
[07:21:47] <smtms> there's this thing called HCL...
[07:22:13] <smtms> meanwhile, I'm waiting for Linux to mature
[07:22:20] <jmcp> billybob: "mature" .... that's an interesting concept
[07:22:21] <sponix> smtms:  true... HCL gave me the hints to get my IDE controller cards working
[07:22:36] <jmcp> billybob: you're frustrated that something should be easy is difficult for you
[07:22:53] <jmcp> billybob: you're also frustrated that everything is not "just like $otherOS"
[07:23:00] <sponix> well, silly thing is, both Linux and Solaris are "mature" just in different places, neither is 100% well rounded imho
[07:23:06] <billybob> jmcp: it has some advanced features, sure, but when you have lack of out of the box driver support, and do not have documentation on the subject . . .
[07:23:09] <jmcp> every OS is different, and you have to be aware of the differences
[07:23:18] <jmcp> billybob: there is plenty of documentation out there on how to configure networking
[07:23:27] <jmcp> billybob: docs.sun.com is definitely your friend
[07:23:36] <billybob> hell even the starter kits only tells you ow to configure a wireless card, and then does not tell you how to manually set configuration files
[07:23:45] <jmcp> out of the box hardware support for a fairly new piece of kit ... .well yeah, Solaris does lag
[07:24:08] <dlg> yes.
[07:24:12] <jmcp> http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/819-3000/eyhuv?l=en&a=view&q=dhcp+hostname
[07:24:15] <sponix> Solaris is robust when it comes to clustering, good fs, smp, the network stack, load balancing, etc... Linux is better on cheaper x86 common hardware. Solaris is new to the x86 spotlight, and had driver lag
[07:24:27] <jmcp> and "Solaris Express System Administration Guide: IP Services" == http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/819-3000?l=en&q=dhcp+hostname
[07:24:32] <dlg> sponix: i wouldnt say better
[07:24:33] <billybob> it is very frustrating, for someone like myself, who does not know everything, but knows a good bit abotu systems to haveto spend this much time fooling around with a fresh install, and still get no where.
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[07:25:07] <sponix> dlg:  better driver support wise, yes ... it works on a broader range of hardware atm, honestly
[07:25:16] <dlg> yeah, i know
[07:25:23] <jmcp> billybob: and you're here asking questions and working through the answers that people like myself are giving you
[07:25:33] <sponix> that is where I was going...
[07:26:27] <sponix> Solaris isn't for everyone, Linux wasn't for the masses in 1996 either, but I saw potential in Linux then, and I see a lot on Solaris now
[07:26:41] <jmcp> and Solaris in 2007 is a *!@#$!@#%!@#$!load more advanced that linux was in 1996
[07:27:14] <sponix> ha, that did sound bad ;)
[07:27:15] <noyb> billybob: do you have a system with vmware or something similar?  you can try it in a VM and it will work great.  I also run snv75 on my toshiba tecra m2 (kinda old laptop).
[07:27:17] <billybob> jmcp: i appricate the help, for real, but still . . .
[07:27:28] <billybob> the install proceedure for solaris needs much work
[07:27:46] <jmcp> billybob: yeah, we know, and it's being worked on - believe me
[07:27:49] <sponix> billybob:  you are on n75, hell you should have seen the old installers ;)
[07:27:53] <noyb> billybob: I think we would all agree that the install needs help.
[07:28:29] <sponix> jmcp:  User Friendly is really the key phrase -- Solaris is working on
[07:28:39] <billybob> sponix: this is by far, not my first *nix install ; )
[07:28:58] <jmcp> billybob: I believe sponix was referring to the older Solaris installers
[07:29:12] <jmcp> and heck, on snv_75 we've got things *soooooo* much nicer than it used to be
[07:29:14] <smtms> billybob, have you installed FreeBSD or OpenBSD?
[07:29:27] <billybob> I have tried installign BSD many years ago, when you HAD to carve chunks of your HDDs by specifying cylinders, and sectors
[07:29:38] <billybob> Both FreeBSD, and NEtBSD
[07:29:41] <billybob> Debian
[07:29:42] <sponix> billybob:  I've been working with FreeBSD and Linux (slack/deb) since 1995/96 and Solaris was still of a bit of a challenge to get rolling for me, trust me I know how you feel
[07:29:45] <billybob> and Ubuntuntu
[07:29:48] <billybob> slackware YEARS ago
[07:30:05] <sponix> OpenBSD using the calc for sectors cylinders and heads !
[07:30:19] <sponix> Now thats an Installer ;)
[07:30:34] <sponix> built to keep the n00bz away
[07:30:34] <dlg> openbsd is easy
[07:30:35] <dlg> you hit enter a lot
[07:31:08] <billybob> you know
[07:31:10] <smtms> use the whole harddrive? [yes]
[07:31:13] <billybob> my main system here is XP
[07:31:15] <sponix> dlg:  _now_ its easy... go back and grab a iso from 98
[07:31:23] <billybob> I like it a lot, but I like the Idea of OSS
[07:31:33] <cmihai> sponix, there are no ISOs! :P
[07:31:34] <billybob> and I see LOADS of potential in Solaris
[07:31:46] <sponix> cmihai:  yeah, forgot -- make one ;)
[07:31:47] <dlg> sponix: thats way too long ago
[07:31:52] <billybob> more-so than in a lot of Linuxes
[07:32:09] <dlg> i didnt know what unix was back then
[07:32:29] <sponix> dlg:  I still don't !
[07:32:31] <billybob> ok so
[07:32:37] <dlg> sponix: there there
[07:32:42] <sponix> think Unix is a trademark
[07:32:47] <sponix> that Novell claims to own ;)
[07:32:53] <billybob> now I am getting terminal 'unqualified hostname' errors
[07:33:00] <noyb> sendmail
[07:33:03] <billybob> yeah
[07:33:11] <noyb> svcadm disable sendmail
[07:33:12] <sponix> sendmail is so gay
[07:33:15] <noyb> that will shut it up.
[07:33:22] <billybob> lol
[07:33:35] <sponix> postfix > sendmail
[07:33:44] <billybob> man . . .
[07:33:45] <cmihai> Either that, or add a "FQDN" to hosts :P.
[07:33:45] <sponix> should be the default on every box imho
[07:33:54] <billybob> now X is stuck in an endlesss loops
[07:34:25] <jmcp> what do you mean? starting, dying, starting?
[07:34:26] <noyb> svcadm disable-and-throw-away sendmail     # <-  /me needs this command...
[07:34:30] <billybob> yes
[07:35:01] <jmcp> billybob: so next time you get the X screen, hit ctrl alt backspace several times
[07:35:02] * billybob sighs
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[07:35:16] <jmcp> it should die after three failures anyway
[07:35:21] <jmcp> just like on any other Xorg-supported platform
[07:35:21] <sponix> svcs sendmail
[07:35:28] <smtms> billybob, the 'unqualified hostname' errors have to do with DNS
[07:35:31] <sponix> if it says maint, then svcadm clear sendmail
[07:35:33] <noyb> all of these *current* problems are because of the sys-unconfig
[07:35:43] <nrubsig> !seen dmarker
[07:35:44] <billybob> nothiung
[07:35:45] <Drone> dmarker is currently online in #opensolaris and last spoke on Wed 15 Aug 2007 23:18 GMT, saying 'nrubsig: 'sup?'.
[07:36:26] <billybob> d
[07:36:33] * nrubsig does the "yagga-yagga-madmadmad-yagga-yagga-madmadmad"-dance to summon dmarker ...
[07:37:06] <jmcp> nrubsig: given that it's about 00:33 in dmarker's tz... you should calm down and wait for about 8 hours
[07:37:11] <jmcp> at least 8 hours
[07:37:12] * noyb taps the bongos for nrubsig ...
[07:38:01] <nrubsig> jmcp: sounds like that I have to dance the whole n'ght...
[07:38:05] <nrubsig> yagga time!!
[07:38:36] <billybob> ok
[07:38:40] <billybob> lol
[07:38:46] <billybob> I yanked the power cord
[07:38:51] <billybob> #$%#$%@#$%@#$%
[07:38:52] * nrubsig adds HTTP1.1/chunked support to his scripts
[07:38:55] <billybob> came back up fine
[07:39:00] <noyb> heh
[07:39:11] <noyb> did you do the disable sendmail bit?
[07:39:14] <nrubsig> billybob: lemme guess - you didn't paid the license fee, right ?
[07:39:27] <noyb> did you register...?
[07:39:32] * noyb smirks
[07:39:37] <billybob> nrubsig: pay a fee for this ?!
[07:39:39] <billybob> heh
[07:39:41] <billybob> not likely
[07:39:42] <noyb> lol
[07:39:47] <noyb> we're teasing.
[07:39:49] <nrubsig> billybob: I think he didn't paid the $5200 license fee
[07:40:16] <noyb> c'mon... laugh with us.
[07:40:37] <billybob> if i had any hair to speak of, I would have pulled it out long ago
[07:40:38] * nrubsig giggles all the time while strangling innocent kitten all the time...
[07:40:47] <nrubsig> ...mhhh ... kitten... HUNGRY!
[07:40:53] <billybob> makes me feel really bad for asking for help and it is STILL not working :/
[07:41:08] <nrubsig> billybob: what's the problem ?
[07:41:26] <billybob> eth drivers not working
[07:41:28] <billybob> installed
[07:41:40] <billybob> then networing differences from what I am used to
[07:41:47] <billybob> (configuration fil;es)
[07:41:50] <noyb> I'm not feeling bad for you asking.  I think this is one of those episodes that should promote spending more time on certain drivers and usability features.
[07:42:04] <jmcp> go and read the admin guide I mentioned the url for
[07:42:15] <billybob> oh, and hey, Solaris is just sitting there in X now, with a blank black screen
[07:42:22] * billybob checkls for HDD activity
[07:42:47] <billybob> ...
[07:43:07] <sponix> billybob:  what graphic card/chip ?
[07:43:09] <nrubsig> billybob: is it possible that X just needs very long because it#s waiting for network activity, e.g. DNS setup but servers not available ?
[07:43:10] <noyb> no login prompt?
[07:43:14] <billybob> nvidia . . .
[07:43:20] <billybob> I logged in already
[07:43:23] <noyb> ah
[07:43:27] <billybob> mouse works
[07:43:31] <billybob> black screen
[07:43:36] <billybob> nothing else works
[07:43:58] <noyb> I'm thinking the same as nrubsig on this.  X has network deps.
[07:44:12] <billybob> well networking is working now . . .
[07:44:31] <billybob> so its like either X works fine without networking, or it wont work right with networking working
[07:44:38] <sponix> know X is big on the loop && hostname
[07:44:46] <jmcp> billybob: did you logout from the command line ?
[07:44:50] <sponix> had issues with that
[07:45:02] <billybob> jmcp: when ?
[07:45:14] <jmcp> before X started up
[07:45:17] <noyb> before X started
[07:45:20] <jmcp> and what method was used to start X ?
[07:45:21] <billybob> reboot -- -r
[07:45:54] <billybob> and X just starts on its own
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[07:45:58] <billybob> as per default i guess
[07:46:03] <jmcp> yeah, it's supposed to do that
[07:46:26] <jmcp> did you get to the gui login screen?
[07:46:31] <billybob> yeah
[07:46:37] <jmcp> and you logged in as you?
[07:46:40] <jmcp> (not root)
[07:46:41] <billybob> I just hty C a BACKSPACE
[07:46:45] <sponix> jmcp:  thanks for all the help yesterday with my raidz setup btw
[07:46:46] <billybob> let it restart
[07:46:50] <billybob> err
[07:46:57] <billybob> CTRL ALT BACKSPACE
[07:47:06] <jmcp> sponix: you're welcome
[07:47:30] <noyb> that will kill it, but SMF will start it up again.
[07:47:33] <jmcp> sponix: it would be better if the help had been really useful though :)
[07:47:42] <noyb> we're close.
[07:47:42] <sponix> jmcp:  looking forward to gettting a monitor/keyboard and flashing those cards to speed things up, but even now, seeing 2.25TB is sweet
[07:47:46] <jmcp> billybob: if you want to disable X, run   "svcadm disable cde-login"
[07:47:49] <jmcp> sponix: yeah
[07:47:56] * jmcp always wants more disk
[07:48:04] <billybob> I dont want to disable it though, I want it to work right.
[07:48:09] <sponix> jmcp:  being there is enough help at times, a little moral support ;)
[07:48:19] <noyb> billybob: we'll enable it again in a little bit...
[07:48:43] <jmcp> sponix: nod
[07:49:03] <jmcp> billybob: once we've got things figured out ok, you can run "svcadm enable cde-login"
[07:49:04] <sponix> jmcp:  think zfs will be able to grow raidz to span more disks in the near future ?
[07:49:10] <jmcp> sponix: quite possibly
[07:49:32] <billybob> hmm does it do thay when updating ?
[07:49:39] <jmcp> sponix: ot being a ZFS-internals expert I can't say how difficult it might be
[07:49:45] <noyb> ?
[07:49:55] <sponix>  /etc/hostname.<dev> and /etc/hosts are the issue chances are with X freezing like that
[07:49:56] <jmcp> billybob: does what do what?
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[07:50:33] <billybob> jmcp: does solaris when in X, and updating sit at a black screen not allowing you to do anything ?
[07:50:55] <jmcp> that's not my experience
[07:51:00] <jmcp> updating what, btw?
[07:51:06] <noyb> no, that's an error state.
[07:51:30] <billybob> jmcp: solaris if expected to be a serious OS< should and probably does update the system
[07:51:45] <noyb> it does.
[07:51:50] <sponix> Solaris is a heavily networked OS though, if the network config is hosed, it will cause tons of issues
[07:51:57] <jmcp> billybob: oh, you mean "automagically update everything on the system whether it's been qualified with your enterprise software or not" ?
[07:52:06] <jmcp> billybob: there is no apt-get for solaris
[07:52:34] <billybob> there *is* an autop updater though, because I just saw it
[07:52:50] <jmcp> and any updates or patches that get installed, get installed when you as the sysadmin tell it to happen, not automagically
[07:53:08] <jmcp> remember the emphasis on stability
[07:53:16] <billybob> heh
[07:53:25] <billybob> you really do not want me to comment on that right now ; )
[07:54:06] <billybob> I have an XP machine sitting right next to this one that has been up for a week now no problems. . .
[07:54:17] <jmcp> billybob: think about the stability concept from the point of view of an org with many Solaris systems, which are running sw which the ISV has certified at certain patch levels
[07:54:20] * jmcp shrugs
[07:54:21] <billybob> and no I am not bshing Solaris just yet
[07:54:29] <noyb> you dare compare it to xp?  that's sick
[07:54:36] <billybob> suggestions ?
[07:54:42] <jmcp> billybob: I'm encouraging you to consider it from a different viewpoint
[07:55:01] <smtms> billybob, how far did you get?
[07:55:03] <billybob> jmcp: I really just want this to work
[07:55:10] <jmcp> and we're getting there
[07:55:21] <jmcp> remember, you've started out behind the 8ball due to the nic you've got
[07:55:30] <jmcp> did I mention docs.sun.com enough already?
[07:55:47] <billybob> im still sitting at a black X login sesssion
[07:55:47] <billybob> have the task bar, just cant do anythign with it
[07:55:48] <billybob> clicking on the java button 'start' bar does nothing
[07:56:25] <jmcp> if you hit <meta>R (windowskey+R) do you get a dialog box?
[07:56:38] <noyb> and it would be a nice feature to get a little feedback when we ask you to type a command, so we could help better, knowing what's happening.
[07:56:43] <billybob> nothing
[07:57:16] <jmcp> do you have any icons on the desktop?
[07:57:39] <billybob> none.
[07:58:27] <jmcp> billybob: I don't think you told us whether you're logged in as you or as root?
[07:58:55] <billybob> jmcp: i have not been able to create a user yet.
[07:59:28] <jmcp> so that would be "I am logged in as root"
[07:59:35] <billybob> yes.
[07:59:54] <jmcp> damn, have to run toa meeting
[08:00:27] <noyb> what was the result of the ctrl-alt-bksp ?
[08:00:32] <billybob> its al lgood, ill just wipe this and put etch on it.
[08:00:39] <billybob> i am tired of playign with this anyhow
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[08:03:24] <billybob> thanks for the help guys. I really do appriciate it, but this is entirerly too much effort to put  into somethign this trvial.
[08:03:36] <Doc> given that jmcp works from home, you've got to wonder how far he's running to get to that meeting
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[08:04:54] <tsp> Anyone know a way to get input from the keyboard on solaris? I'm bashing linux to death trying to figure out just how to do it, but it has no docs
[08:05:05] <kjetilho> read ?
[08:06:00] <smtms> tsp, please, explain what you mean by "getting input from the keyboard"
[08:06:25] <tsp> I'm trying to write a screen reader
[08:06:30] <flyingparchment> some context would be helpful
[08:06:39] <flyingparchment> are you doing this in C? shell script?  in X or the console?
[08:06:46] <tsp> I'll try to explain how it will work
[08:07:07] <tsp> currently I'm trying to write it for the linux console, but I need to grab input and linux isn't helping due to its lack of docs
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[08:07:30] <tsp> I have a sparc just begging to have a keyboard plugged into it running solaris that might give me better luck
[08:07:49] <Doc> what, exactly, are you trying to achieve?
[08:07:49] <tsp> for example, I'd need to capture control-keypad-enter, or control-shift-f3, and not pass it on to the system
[08:07:52] <billybob> so, a keyboard hook ?
[08:07:57] <tsp> that's all I'm trying to do
[08:08:07] <tsp> but pass other keys onto the system
[08:08:29] <kjetilho> tsp: you can't get Control-keypad-enter in the console
[08:08:42] <Doc> hmm.. i think i saw that in Die Hard 4
[08:08:54] <Doc> you need to install a virus into the keyboard or something
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[08:09:04] <kjetilho> if you run cat and press the key you're interested in, you'll see what your application can get
[08:09:43] <sponix> billybob:  so, you got the networking up, its just X hanging now.. thats the issue ?
[08:09:46] <tsp> how does X do it? It must call the kernel somehow to get keyboard keys
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[08:10:25] <kjetilho> you really don't want to implement keyboard drivers yourself
[08:10:33] <kjetilho> forget the console, stick to X
[08:11:07] <tsp> I wonder if I could write a screen reader using the keyboard driver of X, but it would still need to speak something - consoles sound easy since I can just grab the output coming out of the console
[08:11:32] <tsp> although solaris doesn't seem to have a vcs device I can cat to see what's on my console
[08:13:53] <smtms> I think X would be easier, it receives keyboard scancodes and has some keyboard remapping features
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[08:16:32] <tsp> I wrote some example linux code that doesn't quite work, but it should give the general idea: http://tspivey.freeshell.org/a.c
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[08:18:02] <WickedWorking> it's cmihai
[08:18:13] <cmihai> Hey :-)
[08:19:29] <smtms> I'm debuggin an app on Solaris 10, using dbx and memory access checking, and it sometimes errors in _nss_netdb_aliases with "Read from unallocated" error
[08:21:44] <smtms> I thought the code in the system libs received lot of review and testing
[08:22:06] <smtms> I wonder whether I shall report the issue
[08:23:25] <Teknomancer> hg clone ssh://anon at hg dot opensolaris.org/hg/onnv/onnv-gate <-- anyone know the equivalent for pulling the XVM-Gate ?
[08:24:43] <e^ipi> presumably replace onnv with xvm
[08:24:58] <e^ipi> but xvm is integrated, so pulling from onnv-gate should theoretically give you the same thing
[08:25:34] <Teknomancer> not quite the xen sources aren't in onnv yet.
[08:25:44] <Teknomancer> i need SUn's modified xen sources
[08:25:55] <Teknomancer> currently i'm getting http://dlc.sun.com/osol/on/downloads/b75/xvm-src.tar.bz2
[08:26:02] <Teknomancer> hoping that's the correct one.
[08:26:13] <Teknomancer> i was under the impression i could browse it online..
[08:26:15] <Teknomancer> guess not.
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[08:32:36] <e^ipi> hmm... if you put a black bar the size of your titlebar on the top of your background image in leopard, it looks like it fits, and not like ass, which is the default
[08:32:59] <e^ipi> i'm not sure what apple was thinking, but it wasn't "this looks good"
[08:33:17] <WickedWorking> "crap, deadline is in 5 mins, wrap it up"
[08:33:26] <e^ipi> ?
[08:33:33] <WickedWorking> maybe that's what they thought
[08:33:39] <WickedWorking> no time to make it looking good :P
[08:34:02] <e^ipi> nah, if that were the case it' probably look like  a grey-ified version of the old one
[08:34:07] <e^ipi> which actually would've looked good
[08:35:22] <e^ipi> because that's basically what it looks like with a black bar on top of your background
[08:35:39] <e^ipi> although, minus rounded corners at the top... which is too bad, that was campy... I liked it
[08:38:00] <e^ipi> ultimately there are two features I picked it up for... ZFS and DTrace
[08:39:28] <billybob> ZFS and Dtrace do look like excellent features.
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[08:42:47] <e^ipi> damned if i know how to use their DTrace gui though
[08:42:56] <e^ipi> i can't make heads or tails of the info it gives me
[08:45:33] <jmcp> Doc: working from Beijing last week and this week
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[08:46:48] <WickedWorking> morning jmcp
[08:47:19] <jmcp> hi there
[08:47:24] <jmcp> meeting went well :)
[08:47:30] <WickedWorking> yeah? good
[08:49:40] <tsp> My mac is too slow to run leopard :) I want to try the new voiceover
[08:51:02] <cmihai> tsp, any of the new Intels should run Leopard just fine.
[08:51:18] <cmihai> tsp, well, even if they're NOT Macs, but that's erm... a trade secret :P.
[08:51:31] <tsp> I only have a 350mhz G3, which won't run it. Nor will my 2.4GHZ P4 box
[08:51:58] <cmihai> tsp, nah, you'd need a Core 2 or AMD64 :-).
[08:52:02] <tsp> damn
[08:52:26] <tsp> This is the big disadvantage to blindness, I can't run most of that stuff - if I want to boot into single user, I'm SOL
[08:53:06] <tsp> I suppose I could do the webcam pointing at monitor trick I did once with vista, but that was a huge time sink for everyone involved trying to angle the thing and keep it there
[08:53:15] <WickedWorking> bugger, lofiadm doesn't work from within etude
[08:53:36] <cmihai> tsp, "monitor trick"?
[08:54:14] <tsp> cmihai: take a webcam, point it at the monitor, and get a bunch of people on irc to try to read it
[08:54:15] <smtms> "webcam pointing at monitor" trick
[08:54:34] <tsp> of course using another box to control the webcam and irc, so the box with the monitor can run something else
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[08:55:13] <cmihai> tsp, heh, cool :-). Of course, a system with LOM would have been a lot more fun.
[08:55:19] <tsp> sure would
[08:55:24] <cmihai> tsp, I hear Intel is adding LOM to their new stuff.
[08:55:39] <tsp> that's only server boards though, I'm relatively poor over here
[08:56:09] <tsp> even my U5 has more accessibility than any intel box
[08:56:12] <Gman> e^ipi, worse/better than chime when you strip away the eye candy?
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[08:56:15] <cmihai> tsp, from what I've heard, even consumer boards, and, oddly enough, laptop boards.
[08:56:22] <tsp> that is neat
[08:56:43] <tsp> hopefully it won't use some crap protocol that shows a picture of the VGA screen or something
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[08:57:27] <cmihai> tsp, hope so. As long as it's good old serial, it would work just fine.
[08:57:34] <e^ipi> Gman: I won't say it's better or worse because it's quite different
[08:57:45] <tsp> most intel boards don't have serial these days though, which is unfortunate
[08:58:16] <e^ipi> the one OSX has ignores the dtrace metaphors and data structures and just uses dtrace as a data-gathering method
[08:59:16] <Gman> i haven't used chime for a long while, but it was similar
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[09:05:38] <trochej> Coffee?
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[09:06:23] <nico> jmcp: pong
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[09:09:08] <WickedWorking> <tsp> even my U5 has more accessibility than any intel box
[09:09:25] <WickedWorking> my U5 runs Oracle 10 with a 2something Mhz CPU + 192MB of RAM
[09:09:28] <WickedWorking> try that on an Intel :P
[09:09:48] <palowoda> Just some misc stuff.  I got a kill-o-watt meter.  Two AMD Athlon X2 5600+ desktop systems, 4G mem, 6 500G drives, 1-24inch LCD, 1-19inch LCD 1-500W amp, two 450W PS, 1-100 AMP.  About 10.7 KW in 24hrs, $2.50 to typically power in California/day 75.00 a month in power.
[09:10:32] <WickedWorking> saves on heating in the winter though!
[09:10:32] <jmcp> hi nico
[09:10:39] <WickedWorking> brb, gotta get out of the train
[09:10:42] <jmcp> nico: did you see my pm over the weekend about your areca issue?
[09:11:22] <nico> jmcp: hi
[09:11:36] <nico> jmcp: about zfs vs iscsi stupiidty ?
[09:12:06] <nico> not being a driver issue but something in zfs/iscsi ?
[09:12:40] <jmcp> nico: yeah
[09:13:05] <jmcp> I'm going to throw the bug @ the iscsi folks and let them handle it
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[09:14:09] <nico> jmcp: ok. I can say I'm happy that it's not a driver issue.
[09:14:24] <billybob> man
[09:15:03] <billybob> jmcp: there is a troubleeshooting page on sun.docs ?
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[09:17:19] <jmcp> billybob: troubleshooting for nyetworking? that admin guide I pointed out earlier would be the best place to start
[09:17:27] <jmcp> each of the admin guides there have good troubleshooting sections
[09:18:18] <billybob> which admin guide was that ?
[09:18:47] <jmcp> http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/819-3000/eyhuv?l=en&a=view&q=dhcp+hostname and "Solaris Express System Administration Guide: IP Services" == http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/819-3000?l=en&q=dhcp+hostname
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[09:20:43] <billybob> i may just wait until I get my opteron system running again
[09:20:52] <billybob> that 3200 + XP system is too slow
[09:21:05] <flyingparchment> too slow for what?
[09:21:44] <tenex> haha, how is that slow?  compared to a cray?
[09:21:46] <billybob> well first of all I am looking for a good fast(ish) system for FTP, and later once I explore it some I plan on running PXE
[09:22:09] <flyingparchment> ftp server is going to depend on disks and bandwidth, rather than cpu..
[09:22:10] <billybob> Slow, as in comparred to my Core 2 system here.
[09:22:39] <billybob> CPU is what is handles TCP/IP offload on onboard networking no ? ; )
[09:23:09] <tenex> and just how much i/o do you think a podunk FTP server will produce?
[09:23:10] <tenex> lol
[09:23:22] <flyingparchment> onboard nics don't use any more/less cpu than separate cards
[09:23:23] <tenex> it's really disk-bound
[09:23:28] <flyingparchment> and that's not going to be your bottleneck
[09:23:39] <billybob> its not exactly disk bound, its disk + net bound
[09:23:53] <flyingparchment> you will reach the disk i/o limit before the cpu limit
[09:23:55] <billybob> you can test that theory by running a RAM disk export(iSCSI) over GbE
[09:23:58] <flyingparchment> unless you're serving a single file really quickly
[09:24:23] <billybob> and it has more to do with block sizes vs packet sizes
[09:24:26] <tenex> yea, billybob, you're going to need a SGI Altix cluster for your FTP site
[09:24:49] <tenex> and a bridge is for sale in brooklyn where you can store them
[09:25:08] <flyingparchment> how did cdrom.com ever run their ftp site before core 2 duo? :)
[09:25:30] <billybob> tenex: I really do not need to go into this with you, I know what I want, and why I want it, if you're fine with 20-40MB/s GbE speeds, fine.
[09:25:34] <billybob> I however, am not.
[09:25:39] <jmcp> billybob: how much data are you looking to pump with your ftp server?
[09:25:42] <tenex> haha, the irony is they're probably running P4 or P4 xeon
[09:25:53] <tenex> and billybob's podunk server ain't going to exceed cdrom.com
[09:27:16] <billybob> jmcp" I plan on booting from network, for live scanning of infected boxen, and also to use as an OS backup method.
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[09:27:27] <tenex> well, boxen says it all
[09:27:31] <tenex> counterstrike
[09:27:32] <billybob> the fastest I can get, in other words
[09:27:48] <billybob> infected should say it all ; )
[09:28:04] <billybob> we run a system integration/ repair business here.
[09:28:43] <tenex> what you don't realize is a lot of the folks that frequent this channel, as well as #solaris, have been there/done that
[09:28:44] <billybob> Later, I may explore systems deployment on a small scale
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[09:28:56] <tenex> on a much larger scale than you could ever comprehend
[09:28:59] <tenex> arguing with them isn't wise
[09:29:20] <tenex> taking those cpu-dollars and investing them in the disk subsystem would be, which is what you've already been told
[09:29:24] <palowoda> Amazing how many CPU cycles Bill Gates needs these days.
[09:29:33] <billybob> you just do not get it
[09:29:38] <billybob> I have th hardware already
[09:30:11] <tenex> so why are you making silly assertions for?  go implement your hardware
[09:30:23] <tenex> you'll see for yourself
[09:30:41] <billybob> I think i would ratherimplement the /ignore feature of my IRC client.
[09:31:03] <tenex> you're a trolling fool, I guess
[09:31:04] <tenex> take care
[09:32:02] <billybob> i made a simple statement, one that did not require me to be riduculed for, you asked, I commented to which you seemed to want to start a flame fest over.
[09:32:15] <tenex> this is an open forum for discussion
[09:32:16] <billybob> </conversation>
[09:32:23] <tenex> arguing with the seasoned admins like a child isn't wise
[09:32:26] <tenex> you were schooled
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[09:32:32] <tenex> you got a free education, take it like a man
[09:34:39] <tenex> I agree, singapore is hot and humid
[09:34:40] <tenex> ;)
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[09:35:21] <tenex> but gorgeous
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[09:36:03] <e^ipi> i know the stewardesses from singapore airlines are gorgeous
[09:36:13] <e^ipi> that's my only experience with singapore
[09:36:18] <tenex> well, that's truth if any has ever been spoken
[09:37:07] <Cyrille> so there still are airlines whose stewardesses are good looking? I'm amazed...
[09:37:29] <tenex> yes, sq still seems to hire based somewhat on appearance
[09:37:50] <tenex> and temperament
[09:38:16] <e^ipi> and they wear those snazzy kimono type things
[09:38:23] <jteo> e^ipi: you're easily impressed.
[09:38:25] <jteo> ;)
[09:39:28] <e^ipi> maybe yes, maybe no
[09:40:09] <tenex> deadheading a few times on sq flights, I can attest to there being a larger per-capita "hotness"
[09:41:02] <jteo> i suspect it's due to face paint or makeup.
[09:41:30] <jteo> either that, or *all* the pretty sg girls work for Singapore Airlines.
[09:41:37] <jteo> (thank goodness my wife isn't home)
[09:42:08] <tenex> cathay pacific has a few nice looking fa's
[09:42:25] <e^ipi> tenex: you're an airline employee?
[09:42:45] <tenex> e^ipi, yes
[09:43:02] <tenex> i just realized it sounds a bit rotten to talk about "a few" nice looking fa's
[09:43:03] <tenex> haha
[09:43:10] <e^ipi> flight staff or ?
[09:43:23] <tenex> I'm assigned to a flight crew as 1st officer
[09:43:31] <Doc> in singapore it's not illegal to hire on looks
[09:43:42] <jteo> Doc: you mean it's illegal elsewhere?
[09:43:44] <e^ipi> oh, neat
[09:43:51] <Doc> it's illegal in .au, yes
[09:43:57] <jteo> intriguing.
[09:44:02] <Doc> Virgin Blue have been taken to court over it more than once
[09:44:09] <tenex> a lot of western nations bar the hiring of an individual based on appearance
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[09:44:17] <e^ipi> largest thing i've flown is an L29 super Blanik , and it's not even got engines
[09:44:19] <tenex> singapore is very libertarian as far as business
[09:44:27] <e^ipi> L23, rather
[09:44:57] <tenex> oh nice, that's a sweet glider (i don't have any glider endorsements)
[09:45:00] <tenex> but i love to watch
[09:45:12] <Doc> tenex: what equipment?
[09:45:13] <e^ipi> it's a pig
[09:45:19] <tenex> 777-200ER
[09:45:22] <e^ipi> a wonderfully stable pig, but a pig nonetheless
[09:45:46] <e^ipi> the little glass birds like the jantar or mini grob are much more fun to fly
[09:45:51] <Doc> hmm.. long-range twins
[09:46:43] <tenex> yes, the triple 7 is a nice bird, imo
[09:47:12] <Doc> just strap on an extra engine and i'll be happy
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[09:47:30] <tenex> aside from asymmetrical thrust issues, they fly quite well on a single engine
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[09:47:44] <jteo> all i ever flew was a tiny trainer.
[09:47:58] <tenex> aviation is exciting, no matter what the scale
[09:48:01] <Fish> hello
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[09:48:33] <tenex> singapore actually does have a general aviation airport, doesn't it?
[09:48:34] <Giacottimo> hi
[09:48:36] <jteo> true. roll of the tops are fun.
[09:48:39] <jteo> *off
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[09:48:49] <jteo> tenex: yup. but limited airspace for private flying.
[09:48:57] <tenex> yea, like Hong Kong
[09:49:32] <tenex> neither are very VFR-friendly, either
[09:49:34] <tenex> haha
[09:49:53] <jteo> it's hard to import airspace. ;)
[09:49:58] <Giacottimo> could someone helpme on setup htaccess protection to a web directory ?
[09:50:43] <trochej> Coffee
[09:50:48] <trochej> Really makes you fresh
[09:50:53] <tenex> yes indeed
[09:51:19] <trochej> Giacottimo: I usually find docs at apache.org sufficient to do this, unles you're trying to do something really unusual
[09:51:22] <trochej> Giacottimo: Shoot
[09:51:42] <Giacottimo> nothing of unusual
[09:52:14] <Giacottimo> I don't find info on how to modify httpd.conf
[09:53:57] <trochej> apache 1 or ?
[09:54:00] <trochej> 2
[09:54:04] <Giacottimo> 2
[09:55:16] <Giacottimo> found!
[09:55:30] <trochej> Giacottimo: http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.2/howto/htaccess.html
[09:55:36] <trochej> Oh, you found it
[09:55:37] <trochej> :)
[09:55:38] <Giacottimo> Allowoverride directive is my girlfriend
[09:55:44] <Giacottimo> thanks very much
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[09:56:26] <Giacottimo> now I can play with syslog
[09:58:45] <jteo> Miguel really digs MSFT.
[09:59:34] <trochej> Yeah
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[10:07:35] <trochej> jteo: It's a good cause to get some coffee and think
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[10:13:02] <Giacottimo> does anyone use the standard solaris syslog to collect remote logs ?
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[10:33:05] <bda> Giacottimo: Yes.
[10:36:29] <Giacottimo> bda, where can I find some examples ?
[10:37:03] <Giacottimo> about the syslog.conf in the server
[10:40:17] <tomww> Giacottimo: to log from remote, there is a SMF property to switch that on: config/log_from_remote
[10:40:34] <tomww> see: svcprop svc:/system/system-log:default
[10:40:40] <bda> I'm doing it on Sol10u3. When did that prop get added? :P
[10:40:57] <bda> Basically all I had to do was open the firewall for UDP:514 for hosts I cared about.
[10:41:08] * bda doesn't do anything fancy with it.
[10:45:02] <Giacottimo> tomww, yes I modified the option
[10:45:28] <Giacottimo> I don't know how to setup the syslog.conf
[10:45:49] <flyingparchment> you don't really need to change syslog.conf
[10:46:07] <flyingparchment> bda: it came in with secure-by-default - at least the default setting did, not sure about the option itself
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[10:46:24] <bda> huh, I thought that went into u3.
[10:46:27] <Giacottimo> flyingparchment, I must tell to the syslog.conf where to write remote logs
[10:46:36] * bda shrugs.
[10:46:47] <flyingparchment> Giacottimo: no you don't.  they'll go to the same place as local logs
[10:47:12] <flyingparchment> bda: maybe you selected insecure ;)
[10:47:41] <Giacottimo> flyingparchment, you are right I was watching in the wrong dir
[10:47:56] <bda> Possible, anyway.
[10:47:56] <bda> :)
[10:47:59] <Giacottimo> but I would like to separate remotes hosts in dirs
[10:49:42] <bda> Use syslog-ng.
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[10:52:03] <Giacottimo> ok
[10:53:54] <Giacottimo> I'll use a linux box that already has syslog-ng
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[11:07:03] <JWheeler> Hi folks, where does one start exactly to find the cause of an unstable solaris host. I've tried what I'd have thought were the starting points. memtest86 overnight, and I've just replaced the power supply and hard drive.
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[11:07:41] <JWheeler> zfs should be taking care of disk errors, the CPU is known good, and I was running b71 just fine on this PC before I change motherboard, and I'm running the same b71 from the same install DVD
[11:08:21] <JWheeler> This is just a plain whitebox, that I built myself, but it's been a great workhorse for years now... so the hardware is pretty well run in and tested
[11:08:54] <kszwed> so you changed the motherboard and it started being unstable?
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[11:09:06] <JWheeler> yeah, motherboard and video card
[11:09:31] <JWheeler> The PSU died about a week later, so that's been replaced with a brand new item (also more powerful)
[11:09:35] <Berny> swap back them to one by one and test again?
[11:09:42] <JWheeler> I'm not overclocking anything
[11:10:38] <JWheeler> I'm not really sure what components I can just swap 1 by 1. I mean the motherboard... well, I couldn't get solaris to move between them in the first place, that's why I did a fresh re-install
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[11:10:57] <JWheeler> and on the video card front, one is PCI-E, and the other AGP
[11:11:05] <JWheeler> (which I why I changed motherboard)
[11:11:55] <WickedWorking> my life rules
[11:12:10] <trochej> You life's rulers?
[11:12:24] <WickedWorking> yes yes
[11:12:44] <trochej> Say
[11:13:41] <WickedWorking> why it rules? Cause I get things done today, I did loads of research over the weekend and it's paying off
[11:14:14] <trochej> Hmmm
[11:14:27] <WickedWorking> and it gets recognized
[11:14:30] <WickedWorking> \o/
[11:14:46] <WickedWorking> :P
[11:14:49] <Berny> if it works now something is going to get horribly wrong soon ;-)
[11:14:50] <WickedWorking> coffee.
[11:14:51] <trochej> Good for you
[11:15:00] <trochej> Berny: :P
[11:15:18] <WickedWorking> Berny: that'd be my luck :p
[11:15:23] <Berny> hehe
[11:15:27] <Berny> damn
[11:15:49] <Berny> why does sunsolve spit out a different version of patchdiag.xref every run of pca?
[11:16:12] <Berny> i've seen oct 5th, oct 16th, oct 26th, oct 10th over the past 10 mins
[11:16:38] <WickedWorking> they commited a new revision of 127111 yesterday
[11:18:57] <Berny> have that in the list now
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[11:19:38] <WickedWorking> ..
[11:19:40] <WickedWorking> the hell?
[11:20:32] <WickedWorking> oh, my wifi at home came back up
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[11:22:58] <palowoda> Come on Berny do you think anybody important cares about patchdiag.xref?
[11:23:39] <Berny> .oO(only noobs who patch their boxes i guess)
[11:23:53] <palowoda> I said somebody important.
[11:24:51] <Berny> name one person more important than myself ;-)
[11:25:16] <Atomdrache> I've got a Sun hardware question, in case maybe somebody in here might know.  Would replacing my Elite3D M3 with an M6 help me out much with getting videos to play better?
[11:25:19] <palowoda> You need a patch?
[11:26:25] <Atomdrache> I've got a U80 running SXCE from a few months ago and right now stuff like Flash is nasty on it.  Choppy, losing about half the frames.
[11:26:56] <palowoda> Video on a U80 is nothing to be impressed with.
[11:27:42] <Atomdrache> I know I'm not going to get it up to the level of, say, a recent nVidia card.  But would replacing the m3 with an m6 improve things slightly, or would that not affect things like, say Flash playback?
[11:28:06] <Atomdrache> My concern is that the bottleneck is common to both cards, but I don't know if it is or isn't.
[11:28:55] <palowoda> What is the M6 card video chipset based on?
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[11:29:05] <Gman> anyone know that clever url to get an idea of what mercurial repositories are available for various projects?
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[11:29:16] <Atomdrache> Uh...I don't know.  Let me go find out.
[11:29:46] <Atomdrache> There are AFB Series 1 and Series 2 chipsets.
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[11:30:08] <palowoda> Kind of hopeless for video
[11:30:40] <palowoda> If your comparing it to Nvidia.
[11:30:40] <Atomdrache> So would upgrading to an M6 from my existing card not do anything?
[11:30:57] <Atomdrache> I'm not comparing it to that, just saying it'll never be up to that level of performance.
[11:31:12] <Atomdrache> But I'm not trying to play Quake on this thing or anything like that.  I just want it to stop mangling Flash.
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[11:31:48] <palowoda> Nobody important is paying attention to older sparc video problems though.
[11:32:32] <Atomdrache> No way around that.  I am just trying to figure out whether to buy this card or not.
[11:32:52] <Atomdrache> So I'm asking if anybody knows what the performance differences are between the M3 and M6, given the same chipset.
[11:32:53] <flyingparchment> InnoDB: Error: semaphore wait has lasted > 600 seconds
[11:32:53] <flyingparchment> InnoDB: We intentionally crash the server, because it appears to be hung.
[11:32:54] <flyingparchment> mysql <3
[11:33:25] <Atomdrache> Particularly pertaining to, say, Flash video.
[11:33:42] <tenex> listen, the limiter is the proc
[11:33:57] <tenex> the video subsystem is barely going to overcome that, assuming flash was even accelerated... it's flash
[11:33:58] <tenex> not mpeg
[11:34:21] <tenex> we're talking a 450MHz UltraSPARC II... i mean, seriously
[11:34:52] <Atomdrache> So the GPU doesn't handle that or what?
[11:35:15] <tenex> the simple answer is it doesn't matter, your system won't ever overcome the issue anyway
[11:35:19] <tenex> but no, it's flash
[11:35:20] <palowoda> GPU's on old sparc hardware kind of suck you know.
[11:35:48] <Atomdrache> Will the M6 card improve performance for any kind of video?
[11:36:01] <tenex> no, your system is the suck
[11:36:12] <tenex> just read that, it's a very very EOL cpu
[11:36:26] <tenex> and decompression is intensive of any modern codec
[11:36:29] <tenex> in*
[11:36:44] <palowoda> It just isn't worth the money to fix the phyical problem.
[11:37:06] <Atomdrache> I ask because I saw an M6 for $10.
[11:37:13] <Atomdrache> Is that worth it?
[11:37:18] <palowoda> 10 dollars?
[11:37:19] <tenex> it won't fix your issue
[11:37:28] <tenex> so its worth will be seen in other areas, which only you can determine
[11:37:31] <palowoda> Are you hoping?
[11:37:52] <Atomdrache> I'm not expecting it to fix it.  I'm expecting, or hoping, that it will make it a little more tolerable.
[11:38:09] <tenex> I'm hoping that by you reading what we posted earlier, it will make you a bit more tolerable ;)
[11:38:14] <tenex> it won't change a thing with flash
[11:38:17] <palowoda> 10 dollars you can lose by trying.
[11:38:24] <Atomdrache> Okay.  That's what I wanted to be sure of.
[11:40:13] <palowoda> You can go to McDonalds for ten dollars but it's a toss up if you actually get food.
[11:40:59] <Atomdrache> I'd still like to know what difference the m6 is supposed to make over the m3 and what you'd have to be doing to see it.
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[11:43:42] <palowoda> But once again your goal is tolerable.
[11:44:12] <l1s> hi all
[11:44:16] <Atomdrache> Disregard that.  At this point it is a matter of curiosity.
[11:44:25] <l1s> i have some problems with the command svcadm clear bind. rpc-bind fails to start with method: chdir: permission denied
[11:44:39] <delewis> Atomdrache: I'd look more towards an XVR-500 or XVR-1000. Elite3Ds are a waste of time.
[11:44:55] <l1s> i rechecked my /etc/hosts witch owns an single 127.0.0.1 localhost loghost line, and searched google but i cant get any help with the problem
[11:45:05] <l1s> how can i start the bind deamon again?
[11:45:14] <Atomdrache> I want to know what the difference is, in terms of what you see when you sue them.
[11:45:24] <Atomdrache> delewis: Can I get those to work in a U80?  If so that'd be cool.
[11:45:41] <delewis> Atomdrache: yep. XVR-500 is PCI. XVR-1000 is UPA.
[11:46:00] <delewis> the XVR-1000 is a pretty sweet framebuffer. Image quality is comparable to a modern Quadro.
[11:46:04] <l1s> someone?
[11:46:07] <delewis> I regularly watch full-screen video using mine.
[11:46:22] <palowoda> Nobody is going anywhere with PCI video these days.
[11:46:27] <Atomdrache> So I don't need to buy a Blade 2000 to use that or something?
[11:46:36] <delewis> Atomdrache: nope.
[11:46:45] <l1s> ok i fix it my with my ways...
[11:46:58] <Atomdrache> Good, I'm too cheap to get one.
[11:47:06] <delewis> not unless your workload shifts from being framebuffer-bound to CPU-bound.
[11:47:19] <delewis> Atomdrache: XVR-1000s run about $150-$200 used nowadays, btw.
[11:47:42] <Atomdrache> Yeah, I was about to say "Eww, XVR-1000s cost about half as much as the U80."
[11:47:47] <palowoda> About that to power it for a month too.
[11:47:52] <delewis> they're definitely worth it, though.
[11:48:22] <delewis> palowoda: for California, maybe. Where I live, power is cheap, so I don't tend to pay attention to those sorts of things.
[11:48:35] <delewis> the benefits of a state that has hydroelectric resources.
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[11:49:10] <palowoda> delewis: California is the gold standard. :)
[11:49:15] <Atomdrache> Well, there's an XVR-500 for a good price.  That's a pretty big improvement over Elite3D-m3, yes?
[11:49:22] <delewis> yep.
[11:49:40] <delewis> Elite3Ds are really god-awful framebuffers for multiple reasons.
[11:49:44] <Atomdrache> I'm not going to try to afford an XVR-1000.  For the cost of one of those I could have an Alphastation 500 or something (which, IMO, is cooler than a better graphics card for my U80).
[11:49:51] <Atomdrache> Bad engineering?
[11:50:02] <delewis> limited resolution and the texture memory is funky
[11:50:23] <delewis> when Sun sold the Elite3D, they were also selling the Creator3D, which supported a higher resolution and was considered a lower-end card.
[11:50:29] <Doc> Alphastation?  that some new system or something?
[11:50:39] <palowoda> Damn the good old days.
[11:50:40] * Atomdrache cackles.  "Nope."
[11:50:52] <Atomdrache> Alpha is a dead architecture.  I just happen to like it.
[11:51:29] <Atomdrache> OpenVMS without an X server rocks on Alpha.
[11:51:32] <Doc> my Alpha used to run a Doom server. those were the days!
[11:51:35] <palowoda> Hammers are $10.00.
[11:51:51] <Atomdrache> Bah, I can get hammers for half that.
[11:52:03] <palowoda> Includes shipping?
[11:52:12] <Atomdrache> Includes shipping? No, doesn't.
[11:52:19] <Atomdrache> I found an XVR-500 for the same price, though.
[11:52:29] <Atomdrache> Would that be an improvement?
[11:52:37] <delewis> over an Elite3D? absolutely.
[11:52:40] <palowoda> I'd buy the hammer.
[11:52:45] <delewis> *anything* is an approvement over an Elite3D.
[11:52:53] <Doc> buy a sunray
[11:52:54] <Pietro_S> Does anyone tried to munt NTFS in OpenSolaris? (I don't need it, but colegue ask me)
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[11:53:03] <WickedWorking> yep
[11:53:10] <Atomdrache> i.e., I plug that into an Ultra 80--do I have better graphics?
[11:53:16] <delewis> what little texture memory the Elite3D actually has is practically useless for 99% of workloads, because it has to be used in a very special way to get decent performance out of it.
[11:53:29] <Atomdrache> I'll take that as a probably.
[11:53:30] <WickedWorking> Pietro_S: Ja
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[11:55:38] <Atomdrache> What is texture memory used for, exactly?  You can probably answer texture but I don't know much about graphics processing, so I'd imagine kittens or something.
[11:55:49] <tenex> it's used for texture
[11:55:55] <tenex> not kittens
[11:56:00] <delewis> Atomdrache: to push textures into so they can be mapped onto polygons and what not.
[11:56:17] <flyingparchment> Atomdrache: textures are the images that you put onto objects so they have surface detail
[11:56:18] <Pietro_S> WickedWorking: is that support out of box, or did it need something to download?
[11:56:29] <delewis> any sort of image is an example of a texture, and that needs to be pushed into texture memory.
[11:56:57] <tenex> xvr-2500 might fix it, throw one at it while still in the box so it doesn't shatter
[11:57:25] <delewis> one practical use of texture memory is for shoving individual video frames, too, and mapping them to a single surface (this is what MPlayer does for its OpenGL video output driver)
[11:57:32] <flyingparchment> Atomdrache: if you don't have enough texture memory, you spend all your time loading textures into the card
[11:57:46] <Atomdrache> That would explain a lot.
[11:57:59] <delewis> tenex: you'd be just as well off with an XVR-1000, and an XVR-2500 is PCI-E, which an Ultra 80 doesn't have support for.
[11:58:52] <tenex> thus the mention of throwing it at it
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[11:58:56] <tenex> and still in box
[11:59:04] <delewis> what a waste. :-)
[11:59:07] <tenex> since he can't seem to take "it won't help much" for an answer
[11:59:09] <tenex> haha
[11:59:12] <Atomdrache> My answer to that is I'm using a U80 because I'm a cheap tool :D
[11:59:24] <tenex> it's a fine machine for certain things, and you aren't a tool
[11:59:27] <Atomdrache> Therefore, a "really nice" graphics card is something I'm going to avoid for cost reasons.
[11:59:28] <palowoda> Maybe it wasn't an answer.
[11:59:41] <tenex> but it just isn't going to be much of a graphics workstation with most modern tools
[11:59:43] <delewis> nothing like using 10-year-old workstations and complaining they're 'slow' for a given workload.
[11:59:50] <tenex> indeed
[12:00:12] <Atomdrache> So I suppose I am really looking for the most cost-efficient ways to get better performance out of it.
[12:00:21] <tenex> add ram, have fun
[12:00:29] <Atomdrache> It's stuffed to the gills with that.
[12:00:32] <delewis> Atomdrache: I had no problem purchasing an XVR-1000, because that was the weak-point in my Blade 1000 -- the framebuffer.
[12:00:58] <Atomdrache> I'd totally get one of those but $150 seems like a bit much.
[12:01:02] <Atomdrache> To me anyway.
[12:01:23] <tenex> so stop asking
[12:01:26] <delewis> it's not so bad if you want decent graphics performance out of your workstation.
[12:01:26] <tenex> for suggestions
[12:01:59] <delewis> besides, the XVR-1000 has comparable image quality to *modern* Quadros.
[12:02:03] <Atomdrache> I'll get one if I see it for cheaper, though.
[12:02:17] <tenex> that'll be a good choice
[12:02:20] <delewis> performance-wise, the XVR-1000 gets blown away by Matrox G450s, but it is one of the better SPARC framebuffers.
[12:02:52] <palowoda> Nvidia 7600GTX's go for about 80.00 new these days.
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[12:03:19] <delewis> but can I use an Nvideo 7600-whatever in my SPARC workstation? I should think not.
[12:03:26] <palowoda> Duh.
[12:03:39] <Atomdrache> I would if I could.  That'd be cool.
[12:03:45] <delewis> then whatever I can get an Nvidia 7600-whatever is irrelevant.
[12:04:21] <palowoda> Sorry state isn't it.
[12:04:58] <delewis> I suppose, but Sun isn't generating a whole lot of revenue from SPARC graphics, nowadays.
[12:05:18] <delewis> almost all of the old SPARC graphics shops have migrated to Linux or Windows on peecees with Nvidia graphics.
[12:05:21] <palowoda> It's not even on the graphics map anymore.
[12:05:34] <delewis> and the ones that can't are on legacy support, and that's the only place where Sun is making money.
[12:05:55] <palowoda> Wait what about the U25?
[12:06:04] <delewis> that's legacy.
[12:06:15] <Atomdrache> Umm...they still sell those.
[12:06:20] <delewis> or for customers demanding legacy rather.
[12:06:21] <palowoda> It was released two weeks ago.
[12:06:24] <Atomdrache> U25 is part of the "new" ultra lines.
[12:06:45] <delewis> the Ultra 25 was released many *months* ago.
[12:06:52] <delewis> not two weeks.
[12:07:00] <tenex> we just ordered 50 u45's with xvr-2500, they're good machines
[12:07:02] <Atomdrache> delewis: Yeah, I recall seeing it for sale on Sun's site last year.
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[12:07:08] <tenex> yes, the u25 isn't new
[12:07:10] <tenex> the u24 is
[12:07:11] <tenex> and it's intel-based
[12:07:18] <delewis> look at the SunSolve initial sale date.
[12:07:20] <palowoda> Err u24.
[12:07:27] <Atomdrache> (Looked like a nice machine.
[12:07:28] <Atomdrache> )
[12:07:31] <delewis> Ultra 24 ain't SPARC-based.
[12:07:38] <palowoda> So?
[12:08:03] <palowoda> It still runs opensolaris.
[12:08:11] <delewis> so I'm assuming you mentioned the Ultra 24 for a reason relating to the current conversation about SPARC graphics?
[12:08:12] <tenex> they were discussing sparc
[12:08:21] <delewis> or do you just bring up arbitrary subjects?
[12:08:28] * delewis prescribes ADD medication
[12:08:32] <Atomdrache> Well, I'm going to bed.  I appreciate the advice on the XVR cards.  Didn't know I should be looking for them.  I decided to order an XVR-500 since I saw one for a few dollars less than the Elite3D-M6.
[12:08:57] <palowoda> Ok what does the ultrasparc models offer in graphics?
[12:09:04] <delewis> XVR-2500 is the high-end.
[12:09:07] <Atomdrache> (If it doesn't work in the U80 I'll stuff it in the Blade 100 and use that that as a terminal.)
[12:09:13] <palowoda> Dime a dozen.
[12:09:16] <delewis> it's basically a fairly old 3dlabs card.
[12:09:25] * timeless frowns
[12:09:26] <delewis> high-end, old 3dlabs card, but still old.
[12:09:29] <timeless> i wonder
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[12:09:48] <timeless> is there an easy / safe way to get meaningful diffs of a solaris environment?
[12:09:56] <timeless> assuming i think there's corruption "somewhere"
[12:10:11] <delewis> most legacy SPARC graphics customers aren't interested in top performance, they're just interested in using a supported platform and perhaps some *incremental* performance benefit.
[12:10:18] <tenex> indeed
[12:10:21] <delewis> and that's the only reason SPARC graphics still survives.
[12:10:34] <tenex> I mean, we definitely look for future improvements and support, but nothing revolutionary
[12:10:44] <tenex> certainly not over support and stability
[12:10:54] <tenex> and that's the sparc bread and butter, now
[12:11:10] <palowoda> But not graphics.
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[12:11:23] <tenex> yea, since our app doesn't use graphics, that's why we order the 2500...
[12:11:24] <delewis> hell, we still have "visualization" systems here that are nothing more than Blade 150s and Ultra 10s. :-(
[12:11:24] <tenex> not
[12:11:42] <delewis> of course, they're not doing anything intensive. Just displaying data for the ATCs.
[12:12:00] <palowoda> Oh that helps.
[12:12:12] <timeless> hrm, so, i think hte way i fixed nexenta last time was by using an older nexenta zone snapshot :)
[12:12:25] <delewis> I'd imagine that when hardware support ends for those systems, they'll upgrade to whatever the new low-end SPARC workstation is.
[12:12:28] <tenex> we use our u45's for aviation type applications, but graphics are a major part of some of the custom apps
[12:12:45] <delewis> tenex: fairly high-end gear for aviation stuff.
[12:12:54] <tenex> it's overkill
[12:13:07] <palowoda> over priced.
[12:13:10] <tenex> I actually bought one for home, so I can use the same custom apps with similar performance about 2 weeks ago
[12:13:13] <delewis> we're not using anything that large for our aviation-related systems, and we're a fairly large airline. :-)
[12:13:40] <tenex> the systems are owned by a contractor and are on lease, i believe
[12:13:44] <delewis> ah
[12:14:04] <tenex> I walk through there to grab coffee, and I'm a sun enthusiast so you can imagine...
[12:14:06] * delewis wouldn't mind upgrading from his Blade 1000 to an Ultra 45.
[12:14:21] <timeless> delewis: do you know much about zfs snapshot?
[12:14:36] <timeless> e.g., what date should a snapshot directory list?
[12:14:42] <delewis> timeless: only in the sense that I use them.
[12:14:51] <timeless> that'd work
[12:14:52] <delewis> timeless: creation date I'd assume.
[12:14:58] <jmcp> that's what I would expect too
[12:15:01] <Pietro_S> does zpool replace operates under working system? I want to migrate all ZFS to new disk and the old one format and prepare to instal indiana technical preview ...
[12:15:07] <timeless> so, a minute ago, i just created a snapshot:
[12:15:22] <timeless> swift# zfs snapshot root_pool/home/zones/solaris/nexenta@broken_snv_53
[12:15:23] <flyingparchment> Pietro_S: yes
[12:15:30] <timeless> swift# cd /export/home/zones/solaris/nexenta/.zfs/snapshot
[12:15:30] <timeless> swift# ls -al
[12:15:33] <timeless> drwxr-xr-x   3 root     sys           13 Oct 18  2006 broken_snv_53
[12:15:43] <tenex> a lot of the old flight dispatch software was custom, but I see that there is a lot of x86 stuff out there now
[12:15:46] <tenex> particularly for the charter
[12:16:20] <delewis> tenex: most of our aviation apps are in-house. They were written in the SPARCstation days and haven't moved much past that.
[12:16:24] <timeless> jmcp/delewis: so which part of our assumptions am i confusing?
[12:16:48] <timeless> swift# date
[12:16:48] <timeless> Mon Oct 29 14:09:00 EET 2007
[12:16:58] <delewis> they don't do anything terribly complex. Just consumers of GPS data that's pushed to various servers to track planes in real-time.
[12:17:11] <Pietro_S> and one tiny thing, when I want to use ZFS whole disk - do I specify c6d0 or c6d0s0?
[12:17:18] <delewis> and scheduling, routing, printing off manifests, flight plans, etc.
[12:17:29] <flyingparchment> Pietro_S: the former
[12:17:30] <timeless>           c3d0      ONLINE       0     0     0
[12:19:56] <palowoda> timeless: What does "2006 broken_snv_53" really mean?
[12:20:37] <sponix> Pietro_S:  c6d0 the shorter name instead of the partition/slice you ref the disk name itself
[12:21:01] <timeless> palowoda: typically you read it "Oct 18  2006" "broken_snv_53"
[12:21:56] <Doc> broken?  someone here has that as their hostname
[12:22:05] <Doc> makes reading the logs difficult!
[12:22:17] <jmcp> timeless: uh ...
[12:22:17] <timeless> no, that's the name of the snapshot
[12:22:19] <jmcp> Doc: yes, I do
[12:22:22] <palowoda> I'm checking my log from last year.
[12:22:25] <Doc> yah, i thought it was you
[12:22:35] <Doc> but you're from QLD, so i suppose i should expect that
[12:22:45] * jmcp send Doc el birdie
[12:22:54] <timeless> QLD?
[12:22:55] <sponix> Pietro_S:  where did you see Indiana Tech Preview for download ?
[12:23:07] <jmcp> timeless: Queensland, a state in Australia
[12:23:08] <Doc> jmcp: you should see it down here - it's a real mess.  all the cows are hella confused!
[12:24:23] <palowoda> Doc: The cows in California are rolling off the hills.
[12:24:44] <jmcp> Doc: wo jisong ni xiao niao
[12:24:51] <jmcp> palowoda: the ones that haven't been bbq'd ?
[12:24:57] <Doc> Qld is a state in australia that doesn't do daylight savings because it would confuse the cows and fade the curtains
[12:26:14] <palowoda> If you hadn't seen what CA cows have to climb it's amazing what happens if they fall asleep. :)
[12:26:42] <Doc> plus they have to watch out for the wind mills
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[12:26:51] <jmcp> timeless: Qld has been benighted by a history of corrupt politicians, who treated the population as if they were idiots. The people then responded - generally - by proving the pollies right
[12:26:58] <jmcp> palowoda: got milk?
[12:26:59] <jmcp> (tm)
[12:27:12] <palowoda> 7.00 a gallon here.
[12:27:43] <timeless> jmcp: does QLD hope that distinguishes it from Wash, D.C., or Bal.md.us, or Phila.pa.us, or Chicago, or Deroit?
[12:27:50] <timeless> s/ro/tro/
[12:28:23] <jmcp> timeless: not at all
[12:28:36] <jmcp> except that we've got tropical beaches and Meter Maids
[12:28:51] * jmcp looks for a photo
[12:29:12] <palowoda> Meter Maids please.
[12:29:15] <timeless> you mean meter maids at your tropical beaches?
[12:29:37] <jmcp> timeless: the Meter Maids are generally on the Gold Coast rather than the tropical beachers
[12:29:40] <jmcp> beaches
[12:29:54] * jmcp notes that adding an 'r' to words is typical of a Beijinger....
[12:29:58] <palowoda> Ah Santa Cruz.
[12:30:26] <jmcp> only more summer-y
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[12:30:50] <jmcp> http://www.swimsuitmagazine.com/magazine/Vol_1_/Meter_Maids/_Metermaids_2/_metermaids_2.html and http://www.abc.net.au/goldcoast/stories/s1340441.htm
[12:30:52] <jmcp> fwoah@
[12:30:55] <jmcp> !!
[12:30:57] <jmcp> :-)
[12:31:16] <jteo> WOO
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[12:31:26] <Doc> that;s the gold coast. you're in brisbane. doenst count!
[12:32:56] <jmcp> Doc: I'm barely 30 mins drive away
[12:32:57] <palowoda> It's still makes getting a ticket less painfull.
[12:33:18] <jmcp> palowoda: ideally, MeterMaids make getting a parking ticket incredibly less likely
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[12:35:37] <timeless> hrm, your meter maids aren't quie wha i pictured
[12:35:46] * timeless is used to meter maids who write tickets
[12:36:02] <sponix> wow.. nfs has really improved since I used it last, response times are fast as hell now
[12:36:58] <timeless> "Most people are extremely appreciative of the service we provide and it is funny to see the reactions of people from other countries like the USA for example where Meter Maids are known as the people that actually issue the fines for offending motorists."
[12:37:06] * timeless is clearly from the USA
[12:37:15] <jmcp> yeah
[12:37:40] <jmcp> seriously, would you bestow upon a ticket-writing officer all the connotations of "maid" ?
[12:37:53] <jmcp> especially while said "maid" was wearing a bikini ?
[12:38:13] <timeless> the only normal connotation i have is "old"
[12:38:37] <sponix> jmcp:  someone made ref to downloading an Indiana Tech Preview, do you know where to find this?
[12:39:34] <jmcp> sponix: nope, no idea, sorry
[12:39:39] <palowoda> Yeah in the USA we get cameras that take a picture of your license plate and send you a 300.00 ticket.  Big business yet no glitz.
[12:39:52] <sponix> I'm on SXDE b70, and I get nada when I type "top" what gives with that ?
[12:40:05] <delewis> top sucks.
[12:40:06] <palowoda> Try typing 'prstat'
[12:40:07] <delewis> don't use it.
[12:40:08] <flyingparchment> sponix: prstat
[12:40:09] <delewis> prstat(1)
[12:40:12] <Pietro_S> flyingparchment: sponix thanks
[12:40:20] <Pietro_S> sponix: it will be released soon
[12:40:31] <sponix> Pietro_S:  are you on a mail list for it or something ?
[12:40:35] <jmcp> sponix: prstat is much better
[12:40:40] <Pietro_S> I guess that by the end of this week
[12:40:47] <palowoda> prstat is more acurate.
[12:40:56] <sponix> Pietro_S:  pages say late October, how much later can it get than the 29th ? :)
[12:41:17] <sponix> Pietro_S:  I'd rather not wait if you have a link, is it a Single CD download already ?
[12:42:06] <Pietro_S> sponix: it's planned (don't blame me) that it will be release 30th Oct (guantala time)
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[12:42:28] <sponix> wtf is a guantala ?
[12:42:52] <Pietro_S> wait, probably typo (I will take look to email)
[12:43:02] <sponix> Pietro_S:  thats nice... How about giving me the inside scoop, I'd like to start downloading it
[12:43:33] <sponix> delewis jmcp thanks for the heads up on the prstat
[12:45:02] <Pietro_S> sponix: Oct 31 midnight Guam timezone
[12:45:29] <palowoda> It's getting hard to buy blank CD's here.  All's they want to sell is blank DVD's.
[12:45:54] <sponix> Pietro_S:  by not posting a link for me, I take it you are making me wait ?
[12:45:55] <Pietro_S> so I guess it will be ready on Friday ;-)
[12:46:30] <sponix> I'm sucking down b75 atm, but that 4+Gig will take me close to a month to download
[12:47:16] <palowoda> I seen Ipod's in the vending machine for sale yesterday at the airport.
[12:47:19] <Pietro_S> sponix: yes you need to wait, by the way I doubt that technical preview of indiana will be useful (it will be bugginsh as hell)
[12:47:31] <sponix> Now that they drop my connection every 3hours, it might take longer than a month actually
[12:49:03] <sponix> filing bug reports is a hobby of mine
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[12:50:56] <sponix> Pietro_S:  can you get a features list, and a list of included software, etc... some specs on the build
[12:54:01] <Pietro_S> sponix: sry, I can't, I'm only working on pkggbuild to be able to put package to IPS repository ..
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[13:08:05] <Pietro_S> wow, that zpool replace is quite fast, it's already done, I thought it will take few hous to be finished ;-)
[13:14:08] <sponix> Pietro_S:  what amazes me most about zfs, is scrubbing the pool on the fly, and it doesn't bring the system to its knee's
[13:14:28] <logic> sunday i did a replace in my zpool for 250gig, he did it in 2hours
[13:15:01] <sponix> sure, it knockes me speed down to about half, but I honestly expected it to soak up 90 and leave me 10% ;)
[13:15:24] <sponix> logic:  raidz ?
[13:15:48] <logic> yep raidz , en totally full :P
[13:17:17] <sponix> crap                   1.8T   130G   1.7T     8%    /crap
[13:17:28] <sponix> was 2.25TB to start off ;)
[13:17:45] <sponix> raidz 5x500G
[13:17:47] <jteo> rounding errors will get you.
[13:17:48] <jteo> :P
[13:18:04] <sponix> Can't wait to get a Monitor/Keyboard to flash these controllers !
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[13:18:33] <sponix> logic:  can you imagine having 2.25TB, but only being able to access it at 8M/s
[13:18:41] <quasi> sponix: you finally got some life into it?
[13:18:43] <sponix> talk about frustrating
[13:18:47] <logic> 8M/s? thats bad...
[13:19:16] <logic> oww.. are you the one with the dma probs or something? i read something about that yesterday
[13:19:17] <sponix> quasi:  yeah, I have it documented exactly what made it work, if you want ;)
[13:19:22] <quasi> sponix: that'll teach you - getting ata instead of sata
[13:19:39] <sponix> logic:  yes, when thats your local speed as well... I can pull 12-15M/s over the Network Card
[13:19:40] <quasi> sponix: I somehow doubt I'll be doing much pata
[13:20:00] <sponix> logic:  yes, dma issues on the controllers pulling it to a crawl
[13:20:17] <Doc> hmm.. i think it's time to turn my zfs mirror into a zfs raidz2
[13:20:22] <sponix> quasi:  sata doesn't use dma ?
[13:20:29] <Doc> i'm guessing there's a simple command to just do that?
[13:20:34] <sponix> quasi:  next box will be sata... I promised myself
[13:20:37] <logic> sponix: ow man, thats bad, i have my bootdisk, maxtor, ide, which gives the same messages in my dmesg, but my raidz is all sata
[13:20:40] <quasi> sponix: no idea
[13:21:08] <sponix> Doc:  backing up all your data, destroying current pool, and creating over ...
[13:21:39] <Doc> sponix: you missed a step
[13:21:50] <Doc> back up the data _twice_
[13:22:29] <sponix> logic:  well, I pray this controller card flash 1) doesn't brick my cards 2) gives me 15M/s or better r/w
[13:22:46] <sponix> Doc:  of course twice silly ;)
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[13:23:36] <sponix> are there 2TB and 4TB tape drives ?
[13:24:02] <cmihai> Nah, biggest I've seen was the T10000, that's 600GB
[13:24:20] <cmihai> www.sun.com/storagetek/tape_storage/tape_drives/t10000/
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[13:25:02] <sponix> that will never do
[13:25:15] <scriptdevil> what is the difference between a dev edition and an express edition?
[13:25:22] <Doc> ones faster!
[13:25:26] <sponix> there has to be a better way to do backups
[13:25:28] <jteo> sponix: remember to sacrifice the chicken.
[13:25:40] <Doc> sponix: yes, ppl have been saying that for decades
[13:25:51] <Doc> ZFS snapshots is a better way to cover some of what backups are for
[13:26:00] <cmihai> sponix, you don't use a single tape drive mate...
[13:26:06] <cmihai> sponix, that's what tape libraries are for.
[13:26:17] <cmihai> And advanced stuff like QFS, SAMFS etc
[13:26:32] <cmihai> scriptdevil, just use SXCE
[13:26:35] <Doc> heh.. SAMFS
[13:26:38] <Doc> heh..  QFS
[13:26:40] <cmihai> scriptdevil, SXDE is just an older SXCE :P
[13:26:51] <cmihai> heh AVS :_)
[13:26:54] <sponix> scriptdevil:  read a http://www.opesolaris.org/os/downloads/
[13:27:21] <sponix> cmihai:  can't spend 6K on backing up my 1K computer :P
[13:27:22] <scriptdevil> well.. i have a DVD with comm edition b57
[13:27:29] <Doc> can you create a RAID-Z2 in degraded mode? ie, without the 2 parity disks?
[13:28:11] <jteo> Doc: i don't think so.
[13:28:12] <scriptdevil> is there an upgrade option inside solaris?
[13:28:20] <Rivelli> yes
[13:28:31] <cmihai> sponix, how much are you trying to backup, and how often? Are we talking about daily backups or CDP (snapshots + sync)
[13:28:37] <ofu> Doc: empty, compressed files should do ok
[13:29:04] <Doc> hmm.. interesting idea - should work
[13:29:05] <scriptdevil> Rivelli: was that fpr ,me?
[13:29:18] <ofu> in raidz, there is no dedicated parity disk... so removing parity disks wont work
[13:29:22] <cmihai> scriptdevil, you're better off looking into LiveUpgrade from the start. See http://unixsadm.blogspot.com/2007/08/liveupgrade-sxce.html
[13:29:23] <Rivelli> yeah
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[13:29:47] <sponix>  scrub: scrub in progress, 1.31% done, 21h31m to go
[13:29:53] <Doc> ofu: physically, true. i was talking logically
[13:30:37] <ofu> sponix: dont create snapshots in the next 20 hours
[13:31:12] <sponix> cmihai:  its just a Media collection, I'll probably just burn DVD's of the data as I go along... when I hit my 2TB I'll just have 4 100xDVD spindles full ;)
[13:31:19] <scriptdevil> ok.. i will be back later
[13:31:22] <scriptdevil> :D
[13:31:31] <sponix> cmihai:  so, if I lose my pool, it will take me a month of reading DVDs back in to rebuild it, I can live with that I think ;)
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[13:31:39] <scriptdevil> one more thing.. will the bootloader detect linux and windows?
[13:31:46] <scriptdevil> *bootloader scripts
[13:31:46] <jteo> scriptdevil: no.
[13:31:48] <scriptdevil> ok
[13:31:49] <cmihai> sponix, heh
[13:31:51] <kjetilho> sponix: may be worthwhile to store PAR data on the DVD for better scratch resilience
[13:32:33] <sponix>  scrub: scrub in progress, 1.48% done, 22h8m to go
[13:32:33] <sponix> wow, isn't that scrub progress ETA supposed to get shorter ?
[13:32:36] <scriptdevil> jteo: is there an option to install it in the root partition itself rather than mbr?
[13:32:55] <jteo> scriptdevil: the bootloader is grub. :)
[13:32:59] <sponix> good thing its in the bg and doesn't need my laptop ssh'd into it to finish ;)
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[13:33:47] <scriptdevil> jteo: oh... fantastic... but i hope it doesnt screw my system like one of the bsds did, it overwrote the old mbr without asking
[13:33:48] <sponix> ofu:  I don't know how to create them yet anyway, thats next weeks project after I get my data over to it
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[13:33:56] <scriptdevil> i had to use a live cd to repair it
[13:33:59] <WickedWorking> wb jmcp
[13:34:08] <jteo> scriptdevil: suggest you backup first. as with all unfamiliar things/installs..
[13:34:21] <sponix> kjetilho:  PAR Data ?
[13:35:02] <scriptdevil> jteo: well.. i have backed up stuff.. but into another partition... not into a tape drive :-|
[13:35:13] <sponix> cmihai:  I know, its a shady backup plan, but its better than none, and the most affordable.. I can get work to sponsor the disc, all I have to do is keep a spare burner on hand for when I burn them out
[13:35:18] <jteo> scriptdevil: tis a good time to brun DVDs.
[13:35:22] <jteo> *burn
[13:35:22] <sponix> cmihai:  and with those being $25 a pop, I'm golden
[13:35:37] <scriptdevil> jteo: ok.. i will do that and then try the install
[13:35:41] <scriptdevil> ok.. bye people
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[13:36:34] <sponix> cmihai:  if I get my I/O issues fixed, and have burners on their own IDE channel, think I can burn on 2 at the same time to speed things up ?
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[13:37:46] <kjetilho> sponix: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parchive
[13:38:08] <cmihai> sponix, sure.
[13:38:17] <cmihai> sponix, ask your local software pirate.
[13:39:07] <sponix> cmihai:  umm, that would be me :P
[13:39:14] <cmihai> heh
[13:39:41] <sponix> with the I/O issues, I get better transfer speeds under load
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[13:40:34] <sponix> got zpool scrub going, and the pool mounted over nfs, doing rsync local on the laptop... And I get about 1-2MB/s faster transfer speeds :P
[13:40:43] <cmihai> woohoo :P
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[13:41:07] <sponix> nothing like having something perform better under load
[13:43:21] <sponix> kjetilho:  looks to complex for me
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[13:44:01] <kjetilho> *shrug* your call
[13:44:14] <sponix> I plan to md5sum _everything_ and dump it all in a database, then set a int flag number 0 if it needs to be backed up, 1 if it has, 2 if it has been backed up twice etc
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[13:45:26] * jmcp considers beer
[13:45:45] <Tempt> consider not.
[13:45:48] <Tempt> drink.
[13:45:55] <jmcp> yeah
[13:46:01] <jmcp> I was fast coming to that realisation
[13:46:06] * jmcp enacts
[13:46:11] <Tempt> 'consider not. drink or drink not'
[13:46:39] <jmcp> Beijing premium draft beer
[13:46:56] <jmcp> not too bad actually
[13:47:01] <sponix> who's taken the Sun Certified Admin testing ?
[13:47:56] <jmcp> sponix: is that the exam you do once you're inside the nuthouse, or the one you do to *get* inside the nuthouse?
[13:48:03] <WickedWorking> it's Tempt!
[13:48:53] <Tempt> That reminds me, must do that silly exam
[13:48:53] <sponix> both !
[13:49:00] <Tempt> since I have the vouchers sitting there
[13:49:37] <sponix> I was just looking into it, going for compTIA Linux+ soon, and would like to do SCJP and Sun Certified Admin as well...
[13:49:50] <logic> sponix: did you change the : zil_disable , you are running zfs with nfs?
[13:50:07] <sponix> wanting to get a few Certs before dropping a Warrant Officer packet, makes things look good
[13:50:08] * Tempt thumps the penguin shit out of sponix
[13:50:21] <sponix> Tempt:  hmm, vouchers.. Yes Please !
[13:50:37] <sponix> how much does it cost to take the exam, and do they offer it online -- I'm in Iraq
[13:51:04] <Tempt> It's not online; you'd have to wait until you're back in civilisation
[13:52:01] <sponix> logic:  I have no freaking clue what you are talking about... I just did zfs set sharenfs=on crap
[13:53:28] <sponix> Tempt:  damn, I may never get back to civ :(
[13:53:41] <logic> sponix: check this link: http://blogs.sun.com/roch/entry/nfs_and_zfs_a_fine
[13:54:15] <sponix> guess I'll do Linux+, Network+ and study up for the SCJP && Sun_Admin
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[13:54:42] <sponix> wonder if Oracle has online test
[13:55:04] <logic> sponix: for me, it was a great performance boost, i rsync my laptop at home
[13:55:13] * logic goes to a meeting
[13:55:14] <sponix> Tempt:  we have a testing center here in Iraq for computer based test, compTIA, CCNA etc, but not sure if they have Sun/Oracle etc... I'll have to go ask
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[13:55:56] <Tempt> sponix: Not bad.
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[13:56:29] <sponix> Tempt:  can a n00b pass the Sun Admin test, or do you honestly need years of experience ?
[13:56:40] <Tempt> sponix: No idea, I haven't done one since Sol 2.6
[13:56:49] <Tempt> sponix: I understand they're not crushingly hard.
[13:56:58] <Tempt> sponix: Does Uncle Sam pick up the tab on your certs?
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[13:57:29] <sponix> I only have this SXDE b70 x86 raidz box to study up with, that and an archive of pdf's from docs.sun.com and 2/3 books at books24x7
[13:58:02] <sponix> Tempt:  he is supposed to, but Warrant I know that did 2 is yet to see a dime back
[13:58:09] <sponix> they do the old "you pay, and we will reimburse you"
[13:58:18] <sponix> hell, even travel pay takes close to a year now, let alone back pay on certs
[13:58:32] <sponix> is it a spendy test ?
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[14:00:59] <Tempt> sponix: No idea what the going rate is.
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[14:03:08] <sponix> well, I had better get some rest
[14:03:18] <sponix> good chatting with you all...
[14:03:57] <jmcp> gnite
[14:04:22] <jmcp> nico: I've sent the bug to solaris/kernel/driver-iscsi and changed the synopsis to "zfs vs iSCSI mmap()'d luns - there can only be pain."
[14:04:26] <Downix> ok, have an UltraSPARC now
[14:04:29] <jmcp> which I think sums it up fairly well.
[14:04:38] <sponix> I shall dream good dreams of replacing MS Exchange servers with postfix+dovecot ... hmm, yeah... making the world a better place
[14:04:46] <nico> jmcp: :)
[14:05:09] <Tempt> exim+courier
[14:05:12] <Tempt> but anyway...
[14:05:13] <nico> jmcp: so it's a memory allocation issue ?
[14:05:15] <jmcp> nico: it appears that iscsitgtd mmap'd your entire iscsi lun into kernel space
[14:05:24] <jmcp> so yeah, it's a memory allocation issue
[14:05:25] <nico> haha
[14:05:32] <nico> no fear
[14:05:33] <jmcp> did I mention that I never really liked iscsi?
[14:05:34] <jmcp> :-)
[14:05:49] <nico> jmcp: hum no, not during the last 5 minutes :)
[14:05:58] <quasi> iscsi is pretty horrible
[14:06:11] <Downix> iscsi?
[14:06:23] <flyingparchment> scsi over tcp/ip
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[14:06:25] <jmcp> nico: so that was a 1Tb lun, correct?
[14:06:25] *** tinman2k has joined #opensolaris
[14:06:32] <nico> jmcp: yes :)
[14:06:32] <jmcp> or did I get my division wrong ...
[14:06:33] <Downix> oh, ugh!
[14:06:41] <jmcp> nico:
[14:06:44] <jmcp> hmmmm
[14:06:45] <jmcp> badness
[14:06:46] <flyingparchment> it's like a really lame alternative to fc ;)
[14:06:58] <jteo> but it's cheap!
[14:07:03] <nico> flyingparchment: I can't afford FC
[14:07:26] <jmcp> lots of people can't, but lots of businesses can
[14:08:09] <quasi> http://www.matasano.com/log/91/everything-you-need-to-know-about-iscsi-if-you-have-5-minutes-to-learn/
[14:08:26] <nico> It's a business, but I've been buying many servers recently
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[14:10:10] <cmihai> Would buying different colored shirts and alternating them in a modified Tower of Hanoi algorithm be insane?
[14:10:18] <jteo> cmihai: probably.
[14:10:22] <cmihai> Cool.
[14:10:23] <jteo> though i find it intriguing.
[14:10:32] <cmihai> Then I'll do it!
[14:10:50] <cmihai> That way, I can corelate it with my daily backups!
[14:10:57] <cmihai> And use color coding on the tapes :D
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[14:11:35] <quasi> so it's going to be very warm the day you solve it and have to wear all shirts at once ;)
[14:12:08] <WickedWorking> haha
[14:12:22] <cmihai> Well, I'll wear the level 0 T-Shirt... at first...Than it's all 3 2 5 4 7 6 9 8 9 9... and so on :P
[14:12:37] <cmihai> That way, I'll have the maximum number of clean shirts AND use the minium number of tapes :D
[14:12:57] <jmcp> cmihai: I vote for insane
[14:13:09] <cmihai> Thank you :-).
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[14:14:06] <sponix> anyone good with audio codecs? what's better to encode with faac(aac), ac3, mp3, mp3-lame ?
[14:14:24] <cmihai> ogg :-)
[14:14:31] <flyingparchment> sponix: that depends on what you're doing with it
[14:14:44] <cmihai> Or flac hehe
[14:14:54] <cmihai> If it's for a mp3 player, just use lame.
[14:15:31] <sponix> encoding along with x264 movie .. shrinking DVD iso's to avi's
[14:15:37] * jmcp votes for flac, then ogg a *very* distant second, and mp3 @ 320Kbps an even further away 3rd
[14:16:02] <sponix> I encode at 112 lame-mp3 normally
[14:16:25] <sponix> wondering of aac would do any better on quality/size comparison
[14:16:30] <flyingparchment> sponix: AC3 (A/52) is standard
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[14:20:38] <leal> hello all..
[14:20:48] <jmcp> hi leal
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[14:21:02] <leal> after live upgrade, the home directories are not woking.
[14:21:24] <jmcp> have you checked /etc/auto_home and /etc/auto_master?
[14:21:37] <leal> jmcp: yes.
[14:21:47] <leal> jmcp: it's seem to be right.
[14:22:07] <jmcp> is the autofs service running?
[14:23:02] <leal> sorry, sorry... the machine is a cluster node...
[14:23:25] <jmcp> ok, that might make it a bit more difficult
[14:23:25] <leal> i'm not using autofs because of the nfs and loopback fs.
[14:23:58] <leal> it's running, i need to disable it. that is the problem.
[14:24:16] <jmcp> svcadm disable autofs ?
[14:24:34] <leal> but i think the upgrade procedure should preserve that configurationg... dont?
[14:25:42] <jmcp> uh ... I don't know
[14:25:53] <jmcp> I haven't done an LU in a clustered environment
[14:26:08] <leal> it's working ok now. sorry to waste your time...
[14:26:29] <leal> did work just fine. only that configuration and the X did not work.
[14:26:52] <leal> after the kdmconfig and now, disabling the autofs, seems to be working fine..
[14:26:54] <jmcp> no time wasted - it's 9:23pm here in Beijing and all I have for company is people here :-)
[14:26:59] <jmcp> glad it's working for you
[14:27:18] <sponix> jmcp:  use Solaris x86 as a Desktop much, you know, firefox, k3b, netbeans, gqview, vlc, xchat, pidgin, filezilla, azeurus etc ?
[14:27:23] <WickedWorking> ah, I see how it is jmcp, we're good enough when noone else is around, fine
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[14:27:27] * WickedWorking slams the door
[14:27:45] <leal> now i will do a "failover" and switch back tests to see it for real.. :)
[14:27:56] <trochej> sponix: I do and it does.
[14:27:56] <jteo> harsh love man jmcp, harsh love.
[14:28:31] <sponix> trochej:  packages from blastwave or do you build yourself ?
[14:28:52] <trochej> sponix: Blastwave
[14:29:21] <jmcp> jmcp: firefox, netbeans (occasionally), xchat, pidgin ... that's what I use
[14:29:32] <sponix> trochej:  whats the status of k3b/k9copy/kde stuff ?
[14:29:33] <jmcp> WickedWorking: muahahahhaaha
[14:29:42] <jmcp> jteo: :-)
[14:30:04] * jmcp realises his foot was stuck in WickedWicky's door
[14:30:08] <jmcp> ow
[14:30:08] <trochej> sponix: Version at blastwave repo is quite old but works (I don't use k3b)
[14:30:11] <sponix> trochej:  thinking I might setup vnc (or something similar) from the desktop to the lap, so I can have it encode movies also
[14:30:14] * jmcp sobs with the pain and loneliness
[14:30:27] <trochej> jmcp: :*~
[14:30:27] <trochej> Khehehe
[14:31:39] * jmcp caves and orders Nasi Goreng from room service
[14:31:41] <jmcp> sigh
[14:32:08] * jmcp <3 AUD/RMB exchange rate
[14:33:18] <kjetilho> RMB?  is that Renminbi?
[14:33:23] <jmcp> yup
[14:33:24] <sponix> thinking about building xfce4 && kde from source, both don't have that many deps
[14:33:26] <jmcp> People's currency
[14:33:37] <jmcp> kjetilho: common term is "kuai"
[14:33:38] <kjetilho> ok, the official currency code is CNY :)
[14:33:45] <jmcp> yeah - Chinese Yuan
[14:33:50] <jmcp> hangover from pre-RMB days
[14:33:55] <Doc> RMB to US is still 8.2, or did it change?
[14:34:05] <jmcp> Doc: it's still that
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[14:34:21] <jmcp> kjetilho: ie, centuries-worth of officially using Yuan
[14:36:11] <Doc> neat.  first time i went to china it was like 6.8 to the aussie, and i though that was good!
[14:36:24] <jteo> Doc: that must have been eons ago.
[14:36:31] <Doc> 1999
[14:36:45] <jmcp> Doc: 6.2rmb to the aud now
[14:36:53] <jmcp> or near enough at any rate
[14:36:55] <Doc> jmcp: huh? that cant be right
[14:37:10] <tenex> they play a dirty currency game in the PRC
[14:37:24] <tenex> and I semi live there
[14:37:30] <tenex> sans the RMB
[14:37:31] <Doc> AUDUSD= is like 0.92
[14:37:58] <Doc> USDCNY= is 7.47, not 8.2
[14:38:05] <jmcp> Doc: don't forget which entity sets the RMB:(every other currency) exchange rate
[14:38:22] <jmcp> Doc: www.oanda.com
[14:38:33] <Doc> jmcp: you're missing the point
[14:38:40] <jmcp> which is?
[14:38:43] <Doc> the RMB is (or at least, used to be) fixed to the US$
[14:38:48] <Doc> it was 8.2 RMB to the US$
[14:38:51] <jmcp> for USAnians, yeah
[14:38:58] <tenex> well, to be fair, the RMB is grossly misaligned
[14:38:59] <jmcp> it's still fixed
[14:39:06] <Doc> http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?amt=1&from=USD&to=CNY&submit=Convert
[14:39:08] <tenex> and yea, it's fixed
[14:39:13] <Doc> that would seem to imply it's not fixed...
[14:39:16] <sponix> Anyone in here built xfce4 recently? wondering if I should go with the tarball, or the .sh graphic installer
[14:39:42] <jmcp> Doc: the RMB to anything currency conversion game is most definitely fixed, by the PRC govt
[14:39:49] <Doc> mid-05 it floated by the looks of it
[14:39:50] <kjetilho> tenex: it's fixed against a basket of currencies
[14:39:55] <tenex> but the control is adjusted to alter the alignment of the RMB, which is why it can fluctuate aside from the float
[14:39:57] <tenex> right
[14:40:03] <jmcp> kjetilho: or a basket-case thereof :-)
[14:40:12] <Doc> ok, perhaps we have a different concept of the word "fixed"
[14:40:13] <Doc> http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/convert?from=USD&to=CNY&amt=1&t=5y
[14:40:27] <Doc> the first half is "fixed" (at 8.28 to be exact)
[14:40:32] <Doc> the second half is "not fixed"
[14:40:52] <jmcp> think gaming
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[14:43:59] <Doc> ok, so basically it's currently in a Controlled Float situation.
[14:44:22] <Doc> ie, it's floating, but the range is determined by Mao (or something - i might have the guys name wrong)
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[14:46:31] <jmcp> Substitute-name-of-Communist-Party-President-here
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[14:49:16] <kjetilho> Hu Jintao
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[14:49:30] <jmcp> that's the one
[14:51:04] <Doc> mind you, i can still remember when i was in year 6, and we went and found out the exchange rate between the AUD and the JPY
[14:51:56] <Tempt> aah, now the study of ancient history.
[14:52:01] <Doc> and it was 273 Yen to the dollar.  a few years ago it was like 60 to the dollar
[14:52:26] <Doc> it's not up to 106 which isnt bad
[14:52:52] <chenggao> anybody knows  when Indiana will show her face?
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[14:54:45] <Cyrille> didn't know it was a "she"...
[14:55:31] <chenggao> it doesn't matter it's he/she/it
[14:55:45] <chenggao> just when is the most important
[14:57:33] <kszwed> there is no temporal association yet
[15:00:23] <jteo> at least not in this dimension.
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[15:02:31] <ofu> did anyone realise that nvidias G92 chip has almost twice as many transistors as intels penryn (4 cores/12MB cache)?
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[15:03:55] <sponix> chenggao:  Pietro_S was saying earlier they should have a tech preview out within the next couple days
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[15:07:35] <chenggao> sponix: thanks. I heard that it'll be out at the end of this month
[15:07:55] <chenggao> sponix: today is MUCH end of da month
[15:08:12] <chenggao> sponix: jeez since i have to wait for two more days.
[15:09:09] <chenggao> I got everything ready, like rope, guillotine, poison, scissors
[15:09:30] <e^ipi> the tech preview is not meant to be used, it's for developers
[15:09:37] <chenggao> just wait for debut of Indiana and then torture my laptop
[15:09:48] <e^ipi> just use SXCE and be happy
[15:10:44] <chenggao> e^ipi: that's why I got those things ready. If it makes my laptop dead, I have many choices to make meself dead
[15:11:13] <chenggao> i requested for starter kit but seems I need wait for near one month.
[15:11:20] <chenggao> bone is itching
[15:11:56] <e^ipi> download SXCE *shrug*
[15:12:09] * timeless returns to owondering about snapshot dates
[15:13:22] <chenggao> jeez 6 CDs. scared to death
[15:14:20] <e^ipi> there's a lot packed on that 1 DVD
[15:14:40] <chenggao> i can not burn dvd
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[15:16:25] <chenggao> how about nextentaos? compared with SXCE or future Indiana
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[15:24:42] <e^ipi> completely different.
[15:24:56] <e^ipi> it's Ubuntu with the sunos kernel, more or less
[15:27:38] <tenex> and then there's Maude
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[15:29:43] <chenggao> I am using Ubuntu. I do find Nexenta seems like brother of it
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[15:34:01] <Stric> ofu: did you also realize that given certain workloads, it's like 20-30 times faster
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[15:40:43] <Pietro_S> is there some bash plugin -  to [tab] commands after pfexec?
[15:42:57] <cmihai> Pietro_S, type them normally...
[15:43:00] <cmihai> than at the end
[15:43:01] <cmihai> Ctrl-a
[15:43:03] <cmihai> pfexec
[15:43:04] <cmihai> :D
[15:43:23] <holcomb> esc-0 i if you like vi mode
[15:44:14] <l1s> how can i redraw the screen?
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[15:44:29] <flyingparchment> l1s: in most applications, press ^L
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[15:46:26] <l1s> thanks
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[15:49:22] <Pietro_S> thanks nice hint
[15:49:37] <l1s> http://groups.google.de/group/comp.unix.solaris/browse_thread/thread/5996904de8e89c7d/1836081a01a41ed7?hl=de&lnk=st&q=solaris+dt+message+system+cde#1836081a01a41ed7
[15:49:45] <jbk> hmm.. i wonder if i should send another email to request-sponsor...
[15:50:04] <jmcp> jbk: for which bug?
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[16:08:42] <jbk> just a minor nit that's always bothered me -- 6613349 -- I want to fix the 'setuid execution not allowed message' do it displays something beyond the hex device # (and also actually send the message to the zone that generated the event -- right now it always goes to the global zone console)
[16:08:49] <jbk> oh hmm.. heh
[16:08:56] <jbk> guess i repaste when he reconnects :)
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[16:20:12] <quasi> jbk: that's likely to take a while
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[16:20:35] <jbk> problem in china?
[16:20:58] <quasi> more like night
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[16:30:07] <WickedWorking> haha, fantastic. I am running Solaris 10u4 + Etude + Oracle 9 on an Ultra 5 with 192MB of memory
[16:30:18] <WickedWorking> booting takes a while but once it's booted it runs like a charm, and not even that slow
[16:30:55] <kjetilho> *envious*
[16:31:07] <kjetilho> I've been trying to get hold of Etude, but no luck yet
[16:31:12] <WickedWorking> eh
[16:31:15] <WickedWorking> it's freely downloadable
[16:31:22] <kjetilho> what?  when did that happen?
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[16:34:15] <WickedWorking> free as in
[16:34:17] <WickedWorking> 90 day trial
[16:34:44] <WickedWorking> I have a blog entry about it
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[16:35:00] <WickedWorking> http://www.patrickale.org/wordpress/?p=10#more-10
[16:35:00] <jteo> wait.
[16:35:05] <jteo> etude isn't part of osol?
[16:35:30] <WickedWorking> not sure, I dont think so
[16:35:35] <WickedWorking> since it's payware
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[16:38:01] <Cyrille> amazing how far we've gone that now software one has to pay for is considered an oddity ;-)
[16:39:48] <kjetilho> it's not too unlikely that Etude requires the use of encumbered code
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[16:40:27] <kjetilho> WickedWorking: so where did you get it?
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[16:40:42] <jbk> wb
[16:40:51] <WickedWorking> wait
[16:40:56] <stevel> morning
[16:40:59] <jbk> jmcp: to answer your earlier question:
[16:41:00] <jbk> hey stevel
[16:41:03] <kjetilho> jmcp: talking of the devil
[16:41:05] <WickedWorking> http://www.sun.com/downloads/products.xml?id=470c4a45
[16:41:08] <stevel> hey jbk
[16:41:17] <jbk> just a minor nit that's always bothered me -- 6613349 -- I want to fix the 'setuid execution not allowed message' do it displays something beyond the hex device # (and also actually send the message to the zone that generated the event -- right now it always goes to the global zone console)
[16:41:26] <WickedWorking> You will need kernel patch 12711 too, current revision is -02
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[16:41:31] <WickedWorking> 127111
[16:41:54] <kjetilho> WickedWorking: I'm just redirected to the main page :/
[16:41:59] <WickedWorking> jmcp: I am running Oracle 9.2.0.5 in Etude
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[16:43:25] <WickedWorking> kjetilho: lemme look
[16:43:50] <WickedWorking> ah there it is
[16:44:03] <WickedWorking> you have to login to access the URL I guess
[16:44:38] <kjetilho> I've logged in with my normal Sun Service account
[16:44:59] <WickedWorking> http://www.sun.com/download/products.xml?id=470c4a45
[16:45:04] <WickedWorking> that's the URL
[16:45:09] <WickedWorking> it's listen in the downlaod A-Z
[16:45:12] <WickedWorking> http://www.sun.com/download/index.jsp?tab=2
[16:45:14] <kjetilho> *pouts*
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[16:45:40] <kjetilho> WickedWorking: yay!
[16:45:46] <kjetilho> that's weird
[16:45:58] <kjetilho> now I got the same URL you pasted earlier
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[16:47:01] <kjetilho> WickedWorking: in any case -- many many thanks!
[16:47:28] <WickedWorking> thank jmcp, he pointed me to the download URL when I asked him if he heard anything regarding the public availability
[16:47:45] <WickedWorking> I have a little howto here: http://www.patrickale.org/wordpress/?p=10#more-10
[16:48:12] <WickedWorking> it's very easy, install the kernel patch, install the packages, create a zone with zonecfg , install solaris 8 from a flar archive
[16:48:25] <WickedWorking> a flar archive of solaris 8 is downloadable from the same download page
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[16:48:50] <kjetilho> how convenient :)
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[16:51:22] <WickedWorking> ..
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[17:08:17] <dclarke> any Sun people around
[17:08:20] <dclarke> any Sun people around ?
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[17:08:40] <stevel> not that i've seen yet
[17:08:41] <dclarke> I guess not ..
[17:08:49] <seanmcg> some..
[17:08:54] <tenex> usually you need to ask 4 times, then they pop-up
[17:08:57] <dclarke> well ... not sure who to point this out to .. or if anyone even cares
[17:09:04] <dclarke> ftp://ftp.corbina.net/pub/Solaris/
[17:09:25] <Stric> cd: Access failed: 550 Failed to change directory. (/pub/Solaris)
[17:09:30] <Stric> so.. what's the problem?
[17:09:31] <dclarke> the guy who runs that wants me to add his mirror as a Blastwave mirror and he includes the Solaris DVD ISO there
[17:09:46] <Stric> Solaris dir is removed now
[17:09:47] <dclarke> ftp://ftp.corbina.net/pub/Solaris/solaris-10_8-07_x86.iso
[17:10:02] <tenex> and?
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[17:10:09] <dclarke> oh .. never mind
[17:10:13] <dclarke> looks like he just nuked it
[17:10:14] <tenex> he also has a FreeBSD mirror, zomg
[17:10:19] <dclarke> like .. I mean right now
[17:10:29] <Stric> tenex: No re-distribution of solaris isos
[17:10:33] <dclarke> I told him he just can't offer up the Solaris media like that
[17:10:54] <jteo> wb dclarke.
[17:10:55] <tenex> so, if you told him, why did you also come tell us?
[17:10:56] <dclarke> never mind .. I'll go back to my little hole in the wall here
[17:11:06] * Stric waves to the hole
[17:11:09] <tenex> he obviously was interested in taking it down
[17:11:14] <dclarke> tenex : duh .. because it was there .. up until seconds ago
[17:11:16] <tenex> ?
[17:11:23] <tenex> if you notified him, why not give him the chance to remove it
[17:11:29] <tenex> rather than coming here to start shit
[17:11:32] <dclarke> tenex : and I figure some Sun person would know who to send an email to .. I sure don't
[17:11:33] <tenex> that's what I was saying :)
[17:11:42] <dclarke> tenex : it was there for a week
[17:11:54] <dclarke> tenex : and watch your mouth .. there sonny
[17:11:54] <tenex> and when did you tell him?
[17:12:17] <tenex> in the interest of not privately messaging you, I'm not your son
[17:12:21] <tenex> but do take care in the hole
[17:12:25] * dclarke uggg
[17:12:39] * dclarke puts tenex on permanent ignore
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[17:17:40] <WickedWorking> is it full moon or something?
[17:18:05] <dclarke> I'll moon somebody that's for sure
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[17:18:36] <Downix> ok, I am having no luck identifying what the card in my Ultra 10 is
[17:18:51] <tenex> sorry, which card?
[17:18:54] <tenex> i wasn't around
[17:19:18] <Downix> it has what looks like an ethernet port next to a long thin port that looks similar to a super-long SCSI
[17:19:58] <Stric> do you find a (probably yellow) label on it with a bunch of numbers?
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[17:20:42] <seanmcg> Downix: sounds like a scsi/hme card, the ethernet may be hme
[17:21:00] <Downix> with a bar code?
[17:21:04] <Stric> could be
[17:21:11] <Downix> yup
[17:21:16] <Stric> say the first 7 numbers
[17:21:27] <stevel> or type them - that might be better.
[17:21:27] <stevel> ;-)
[17:21:28] <Downix> 5015656
[17:21:29] <WickedWorking> going home!
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[17:21:45] <Stric> yup, it's fast ethernet + uw scsi
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[17:21:56] <Stric> google://501-5656
[17:22:08] <Downix> hm, no internal port tho
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[17:22:47] <Downix> but yup, thats it from the picture'
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[17:23:57] * Berny has these cards in some old ss10 and 20s :-)
[17:24:50] <Downix> oh?  never seen an ss10 with PCI
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[17:26:26] <Stric> cause they don't exist
[17:26:37] <Stric> but there has been scsi+net cards for ss10's too
[17:26:47] <Downix> ok
[17:26:59] <Stric> (sbus)
[17:27:10] <Downix> right, hence confusion
[17:27:15] <Downix> ok, got it now
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[17:28:03] <Downix> still, need to get an OS on this
[17:29:02] <tenex> you still haven't gotten it going yet? or is this a different one?
[17:29:15] <tenex> you'd better drink a few beers after it's up
[17:29:32] <Downix> this is the Ultra 10 I just got.  The SuperSPARC10 is running now
[17:29:41] <Downix> erm, SPARCStation 10 I mean
[17:29:59] <tenex> oh, good
[17:30:59] <Downix> this thing does not seem able to boot from it's CD-ROM tho
[17:31:33] <Downix> or even to see it
[17:31:49] <Downix> I figured since it had a CD, be less issues
[17:32:14] <tenex> is it the original cdrom?
[17:32:26] <Downix> yup
[17:32:30] <Downix> a Sun 48x
[17:33:08] <Downix> this thing is so unused it still has the factory shiplabel on it
[17:33:17] <jteo> woah.
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[17:33:28] <jteo> those things are like tanks. very long lasting tanks.
[17:33:45] <Downix> I heard it's onboard IDE wasn't too hot
[17:33:56] <jteo> no DMA.
[17:34:10] <jteo> twas my first encounter with a sparc.
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[17:34:45] <Downix> I was going to put my SCSI card in it, but now, don't need to it seems
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[17:36:45] <tenex> I think alpha would be a fun architecture to fool with
[17:36:51] <Downix> I have an Alpha
[17:36:56] <Downix> damned shame about DEV
[17:36:57] <Downix> DEC
[17:37:01] <tenex> yea
[17:37:06] <Downix> my dad used to work for them
[17:37:10] <tenex> those last-gen alphas were hot
[17:37:24] <Downix> they were, but they were also crippled
[17:37:34] <tenex> oh, I wasn't aware of that
[17:37:55] <Downix> DEC had engineered the design around their fabs to the point that when Compaq bought them, and sold off the original fabs, the performance growth was cut-short
[17:38:07] <Downix> lost about 10-20% of the performance when they did that
[17:38:12] <cmihai> Crippled my ass, I've seen 64-way EV7 Alpha Servers running @ 1.3Ghz blowing any Itanium to date out of the water.
[17:38:28] <Downix> cmihai:  Yes, now imagine if it has a 20% speed boost on top of that.
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[17:38:58] <tenex> I wouldn't mind having a CS20
[17:39:07] <Downix> I have a 500Mhz EV7, a VX1000 model system
[17:39:15] <tenex> one of those API things
[17:39:18] <Downix> (pretty sure it's EV7)
[17:39:25] <cmihai> Got it from a Cray Downix? :-)
[17:39:48] <Downix> cmihai:  no idea.  Someone gave it to me.  Took me forever to get a PSU for it.
[17:40:04] <cmihai> Fun though... when HP canceled Alpha...
[17:40:11] <Downix> Indeed
[17:40:12] <cmihai> it was the most powerful CPU on the market :P
[17:40:14] <Downix> ticked me off
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[17:40:36] <cmihai> And had the best clusters too
[17:40:43] <Downix> I still would like to get this Ultra10 running
[17:40:48] <cmihai> The Los Alamos nuclear stuff... 4096 Alphas EV7
[17:41:04] <cmihai> Bang per buck, it beat the shit out of the Earth Similator
[17:41:10] <Downix> if I go boot cdrom the light on the CD-ROM doesn't flash
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[17:41:26] <Downix> cmihai:  I know.  I just don't get HP, or Compaq.
[17:41:42] <Downix> ok, lunchtime, brb
[17:41:43] <D-EJ915> doesn't matter how good the tech is if people don't buy it ;)
[17:41:44] <cmihai> And they had 2 great operating systems to run on it too... OpenVMS and Tru64 UNIX.
[17:41:52] <cmihai> D-EJ915, oh, and people buy Itanium?
[17:41:57] <D-EJ915> lol, no
[17:42:04] <D-EJ915> which is why they canned those before the PA-RISC systems
[17:42:15] <Downix> D-EJ915, People did buy em tho, outsold their PA-RISC and Itanium machines.
[17:42:18] <cmihai> Canned what?
[17:42:22] <cmihai> They canned PA-RISC mate.
[17:42:29] <cmihai> Itanium is the platform now.
[17:42:31] <D-EJ915> HP has no more unix machines :(
[17:42:36] <cmihai> For both HP-UX and OpenVMS.
[17:42:37] <cmihai> That's bullshit.
[17:42:38] <jbk> well the intention was to always replace pa-risc with itanic
[17:42:44] <cmihai> HP sells HP-UX Itanium machines.
[17:42:51] <cmihai> 128-way SuperDome servers too.
[17:43:00] <Downix> I've always wanted to try HP-UX
[17:43:16] <cmihai> Meh, it's a mild hype. Better go for AIX :-)
[17:43:26] <tenex> mmm... POWER6
[17:43:29] <D-EJ915> unix machine = risc processor, not itanium
[17:43:34] <tenex> ?
[17:43:37] <D-EJ915> what I meant when I said that
[17:43:49] <Downix> D-EJ915, There was UNIX before there was RISC
[17:43:56] <Downix> ok, brb
[17:44:15] <D-EJ915> ok and?
[17:44:20] <cmihai> HP still sells some Alpha and PA-RISC machines they have on stock...
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[17:48:09] <Downix> back
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[17:49:55] <D-EJ915> @Downix: the pa-risc workstations are pretty cheap on ebay too
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[17:50:19] <Downix> D-EJ915, I never could get into PA-RISC.
[17:50:40] <D-EJ915> I've never used one before, I'd just like to get one to fool around with
[17:51:58] <Downix> I'd be happy with this SPARC... if I can ever get it to boot
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[17:52:39] <D-EJ915> they have some new Ultra 45s  at my school, 1x 1.6GHz but they loaded up solaris 9 on them...and with openwindows too
[17:52:45] <aka_druid> shrug, am I supposed to be able to change the software selection in sxde b70b during the install ?
[17:52:51] <D-EJ915> I was severely confused
[17:53:11] <aka_druid> D-EJ915, wasnt openwindows last included in solaris8 ?
[17:53:56] <D-EJ915> I'm not sure, but I got a warning about Sun not supporting it, so I assumed that's what was loaded
[17:53:59] <jbk> aka_druid: probably depends on the installer being used -- the new one doesn't have all the functionality yet
[17:54:00] <cmihai> D-EJ915, don't you mean CDE?
[17:54:23] <D-EJ915> must have just been mislabelled because it was CDE
[17:54:26] <D-EJ915> unless they look the same
[17:55:22] <aka_druid> jbk, ic, ok.. first time installing it
[17:56:19] <jbk> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/caiman/caiman_scaled.png <-- did it look like that?
[17:56:32] <aka_druid> and vmware refuses to go fullscreen... need to investigate that after install
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[17:59:30] <aka_druid> jbk, yeah... and it also didnt let me partition heh... hopefully its using the same as Ive set in 08/06 that was in there befoer
[17:59:59] <jbk> i think it should
[18:00:16] <jbk> it's still a work in progress
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[18:03:55] <aka_druid> jbk, no problem, its vmware heh. But if sxde is WIP and sxce is more bleeding edge than sxde, then I suppose the "stable release" would be the latest solaris10 update, right?
[18:04:53] <jbk> more or less, though sxce is generally pretty stable (however you're more likely to see exceptions here than in the other versions)
[18:05:19] <jbk> but even then, they tend to be spotted fairly quickly
[18:06:02] <aka_druid> k
[18:06:05] <aka_druid> coolness
[18:07:34] <SplasPood> Can anyone suggest where I might find docs on setting up a diskless system with opensolaris? PXE boot, nfs root, etc..
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[18:09:45] <SplasPood> ahh hrm, maybe this is it..
[18:10:49] <Downix> Ok, it can "see" the floppy
[18:11:04] <Downix> it says it sees the CD-ROM, but when I try boot cdrom, the cdrom doesn't spin up or anything
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[18:41:11] <quasi> "We are aiming to integrate zfs boot for both sparc and x86 into Nevada around the end of this calendar year"
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[18:58:16] <Downix> Ok, messing with the plugs didn't help the CD-ROM
[19:00:10] <tsp> Downix: sparcs can also netboot, if you ahve another box with the required software
[19:00:36] <Downix> tsp:  never set up a netboot before.  I do have an x86 Solaris box running tho
[19:01:05] <tsp> I have no idea how to do it, but it's documented all over the place - the one time I did it, I was on freebsd and that was hard
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[19:01:26] <tsp> but on solaris it sounds dead easy compared to what I did
[19:02:13] <quasi> http://soulfood.dk/archives/2006/09/20/T23_43_37/index.html is how I do the jet setup
[19:02:51] <quasi> Downix: http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/features/articles/diskless_x86_setup.jsp Diskless Setup for the Solaris OS for x86 Platforms
[19:03:14] <Downix> quasi: tyvm, hopefully it will allow for booting a solaris box
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[19:04:29] <quasi> Downix: sure it will
[19:04:36] <Downix> yay
[19:04:42] <Downix> now, to figure it out
[19:04:48] <Downix> (the irony as I have the CD-ROM here)
[19:05:20] <Downix> what architecture of the Ultra 10?
[19:05:29] <Downix> I know my SPARCstation is a 4m
[19:06:34] <tsp> ultra10 should be sun4U
[19:07:25] <Downix> ok
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[19:07:34] <Downix> making sure, wasn't sure if it was u or v
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[19:13:43] <Downix> Copying over the CD images to the server....
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[19:23:10] <jamesbrink> can anyone tell me what i need to do to enable a legacy startup script i have on solaris 10
[19:24:03] <DerJoern> same as in every other solaris
[19:29:27] <jamesbrink> it does not list in svcs -a
[19:30:51] <quasi> that list most like doesn't get updated without a reboot
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[19:31:09] <jamesbrink> i have rebooted
[19:31:28] <jamesbrink> i cant figure out what i need to do to make it run
[19:31:38] <quasi> and you have the script in /etc/rc2.d ?
[19:32:09] <quasi> (or rc3.d)
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[19:32:17] <jamesbrink> rc3.d
[19:32:30] <jamesbrink> all it does is add a few routes
[19:32:36] <jamesbrink> but it does not seem to be running
[19:32:45] <quasi> and it its name starts with S and the script is executable?
[19:33:04] <jamesbrink> oh
[19:33:09] <jamesbrink> no it does not start with S
[19:33:43] <jamesbrink> that may be the problem
[19:33:50] <jamesbrink> did not know it needed to have that
[19:34:21] <quasi> that's how init has been for ages
[19:34:27] <quasi> sysv
[19:36:18] <quasi> it is very simple - when the os enters a runlevel, it starts all scripts starting with S in the corresponding rc dir and do it alphabetically so the S01script gets started before S02script
[19:36:53] <quasi> always with start as the option
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[19:37:30] <sommerfeld> note that if you just want to add a few static routes at boot, see the new -p (persistent) argument to route(1M)
[19:37:33] <quasi> when leaving a runlevel it goes through the scripts starting with K and and uses stop as the argument
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[19:44:25] <ottom> ps -ef ww
[19:44:53] <ottom> oops, sorry, wrong window.
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[19:59:21] <Downix> Ok, how do I mount the .iso images so I can install off of them?
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[19:59:55] <Downix> oh wait, nevermind
[20:00:02] <l1s> mount -o loop <file> thought
[20:00:11] <logic_> # lofiadm -a /path/to/sol-nv-b53-x86-dvd.iso /dev/lofi/1
[20:00:12] <logic_> # mount -F hsfs -o ro /dev/lofi/1 /mnt
[20:00:29] <cmihai> Downix, LiveUpgrade?
[20:00:50] <Downix> cmihai, No, trying to get Solaris installed on my SPARC, which does not seem able to see it's CD-ROM drive
[20:01:11] <cmihai> JumpStart?
[20:01:25] <Downix> cmihai:  right.
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[20:05:38] <Downix> Ok, this is giving me the same error as I was getting when I tried to install Solaris9 on my other SPARC
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[20:05:47] <Downix> Install boot image /mnt/Solaris_10/Tools/Boot does not exist
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[20:06:37] <WickedWicky> because boot links to ../s0/something which doesnt exist, I believe
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[20:07:33] <Downix> to ../../../s1
[20:07:36] <WickedWicky> that
[20:08:18] <WickedWicky> it's because you have both an hsfs filesystem on the CD plus a miniroot, which is slice 1, and ufs
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[20:09:07] <Downix> oy
[20:09:11] <Downix> so, any way to fix it?
[20:09:13] <WickedWicky> so when you mount -F hsfs the loopback, you only mount the ISO part of the CD, not the UFS part
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[20:09:43] <logic> ow thats interesting WickedWicky , i didn't know that
[20:09:44] <Downix> it gave the same error when it was reading directly from a CD as well tho
[20:09:45] <WickedWicky> not that I am aware of, never tried either
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[20:10:38] <l1s> mmmmwhahahaha i solved all off my problems :D
[20:10:43] <l1s> again
[20:10:47] <logic> i only used the mount commands with hsfs on x86 machines, never tried SPARC
[20:10:50] <l1s> wihout your help :D
[20:12:01] <WickedWicky> you could try: mkdir /mnt/s0 && mkdir /mnt/s1 && mount -F hsfs /dev/lofi/1 /mnt/s0 && mount -F ufs /dev/lofi/1 /mnt/s1
[20:12:04] <WickedWicky> see if that works
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[20:12:26] <WickedWicky> maybe the second mount -F ufs will bump to slice 1
[20:12:29] <WickedWicky> it's a long shot though
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[20:13:02] <Downix>  /mnt/s1/Solaris_10/Tools/Boot is not a valid install boot image
[20:13:05] <Downix> new error
[20:13:20] <l1s> WickedWicky: its not important for normal, mount recognizes the image format
[20:13:33] <WickedWicky> in this case: only a part of the image format
[20:13:43] <l1s> WickedWicky: you could also mount ext2 from images if you had the drivers installed
[20:14:08] <WickedWicky> if you could read beyond the first slice on a lofi device
[20:14:12] <WickedWicky> and it appears you cant
[20:14:16] <logic> maybe the iso is corrupt? did you do a digest?
[20:14:22] <l1s> why dot you use dd?
[20:14:26] <l1s> dont
[20:14:40] <Downix> logic:  I did
[20:14:52] <WickedWicky> dd to do what?
[20:15:19] <Berny> WickedWicky: dump an image of the image?
[20:15:20] <l1s> <WickedWicky> if you could read beyond the first slice on a lofi device
[20:15:24] <Downix> I wish there was a solaris floppy disk install, or some way for me to figure out why this SPARC can't see it's CD-ROM
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[20:15:37] <l1s> you can also mount images with dd
[20:16:43] <WickedWicky> and dd will know the blocksize will know where the ISO FS ends and UFS starts.. how?
[20:17:18] <l1s> dont you want to mount a image?
[20:17:30] <Berny> because gdd is almighty ;-)
[20:17:44] <WickedWicky> l1s: he wants to mount the second slice of the image
[20:17:45] <Berny> l1s: the sparc image has more than one "partition" on it
[20:17:52] <Downix> hmm, could I use QEMU to install it onto the HD?
[20:18:05] <Berny> it's easy for a single slice
[20:20:00] <Berny> Downix: google for lofi and extractslice.ksh
[20:20:30] <Berny> that should split the image into pieces lofi can use right
[20:20:39] <l1s> http://docs.lucidinteractive.ca/index.php/Creating_a_Linux_Jumpstart
[20:20:40] <l1s> http://docs.lucidinteractive.ca/index.php/Creating_a_Linux_Jumpstart
[20:20:43] <l1s> mhhh
[20:20:46] <l1s> sry
[20:20:53] <l1s> see at the center of the site...
[20:21:04] <Downix> all this because it doesn't see it's CD-ROM...
[20:21:22] <l1s> and next time use google
[20:21:39] <Berny> http://mountall.blogspot.com should have another tool to extract ufs slices
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[20:21:47] <Downix> hmm
[20:21:56] <Downix> how do I check which prom version I have?
[20:22:48] <l1s> i dont know :D
[20:22:59] <Berny> prtdiag -v
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[20:23:24] <Downix> prtdiag?
[20:24:05] <WickedWicky> l1s: before pasting URLS and tell ppl to use google, it'd be helpfull if you know what people are discussing
[20:24:14] <WickedWicky> him using lofiadm points out he's on a Solaris box
[20:24:34] <Downix> ok, got it
[20:24:36] <Berny> yes prtdiag
[20:24:39] <Downix> 3.25 version 3
[20:24:54] <Downix> Berny:  No, that is what the firmware prompt spit at me when I typed that
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[20:27:27] <jbk> sparc?
[20:28:06] <Downix> yup
[20:28:10] <Downix> IIi
[20:28:20] <Downix> with no OS on it
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[20:29:29] <Berny> if you're in openboot prom it was banner iirc
[20:30:30] <Downix> k
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[20:30:38] <Berny> or .version
[20:30:44] <Downix> I used .version
[20:31:03] <Berny> or just power it on and watch the banner right at the start :-)
[20:31:57] <Downix> heh
[20:32:10] <Berny> iirc banner has some more info (cpu type, memory and stuff as well)
[20:33:09] <Downix> ok
[20:33:22] <Downix> if I could just get it to boot from the CD-ROM I'd be happy
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[20:33:33] <Berny> what box is it anyway?
[20:34:35] <Berny> .oO(broken cdrom was always on my ultra-5s ;-))
[20:36:01] <WickedWicky> what's the error message when you type: boot cdrom - install
[20:36:02] <WickedWicky> ?
[20:36:11] <WickedWicky> (with the media in, of course
[20:36:12] <WickedWicky> )
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[20:59:54] <bubbva> starting Wednesday, bug notification mails for "solaris" should be much more useful to you all.
[21:00:29] <tomww> bubbva: have an example (we are impatient :-))
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[21:01:11] <bubbva> things like Description, workaround, keywords, etc, will be included
[21:01:41] <bubbva> unfortunately, we still couldn't include RE & RM names, because we couldn't get approval from the privacy office (too many countries affected)
[21:01:53] <bubbva> we're still working on the approval, but didn't want to delay the upgraded emails for it.
[21:02:23] *** logic_ has joined #opensolaris
[21:02:25] <bubbva> also, just sent mail to all the ON developers asking them to put as much information as possible in the Description field
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[21:02:27] <jteo> beggars can't be choosy i suppose. ;)
[21:02:44] <bubbva> and said "See Comments" is never a valid description. :-)
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[21:05:43] <stevel> bubbva: someone needs to start running my nag script again
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[21:06:19] <stevel> i had a cron job that ran every night and looked at all the bugs filed against product 'solaris' during the previous 24 hours and nagged anyone who had "See comments" as their description
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[21:06:57] <tomww> bubbva: cool, thanks :-)
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[21:20:35] <bubbva> dang that stevel!
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[21:27:40] <bubbva> hey, stevel: who did you hand over your script to?
[21:27:59] <stevel> bubbva: kupfer should have it
[21:28:15] <bubbva> if you want, I can send you the email announcing the change. I only sent it internally, as only internal users need to take action
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[21:28:36] * bubbva needs to pester kupfer
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[21:30:35] <stevel> bubbva: no worries thanks though
[21:33:02] <alanc> bubbva: just get the bugster people to run a mass replace of stevel at sun dot com with stevel at opensolaris dot org and fill his mailbox with examples 8-)
[21:33:31] <bubbva> sounds like something stevel should've done before he left us :-0
[21:33:33] <bubbva> :-)
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[21:33:42] <stevel> hah.
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[21:41:51] <bubbva> kupfer said he will be starting up your script again soon... it's on his list.
[21:41:56] <bubbva> oops... stevel
[21:42:08] <stevel> great
[21:45:49] <e^ipi> could someone point me at the new project proposal docs?
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[21:46:39] <e^ipi> ie, what's the new procedure for proposing a new project?
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[21:52:31] <alanc> e^ipi: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/ogb/policies/project-instantiation.txt
[21:52:40] <e^ipi> thanks
[21:53:24] <flyingparchment> something about sun's website makes opera's js parser very unhappy
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[22:18:13] <flyingparchment> does anyone have numbers on raid5 vs raid10 for average i/o latency?  (i.e. iops)
[22:19:23] <Chris_S> read or write? plain RAID-5 or ZFS raidz?
[22:19:43] <flyingparchment> mixed (maybe 60:40 read/write), hardware
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[22:22:56] <tsoome1> that depends on your raid hardware
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[22:23:08] <Chris_S> random IO or streaming?
[22:23:16] <flyingparchment> random
[22:23:21] <flyingparchment> (oltp)
[22:23:22] <Stric> flyingparchment: try it and see which one is faster for your hw and your workload
[22:24:38] <v_l> hi
[22:24:42] <Chris_S> The last time I looked at this I remember an IOPs/sec figure of around 100-120 for 15K RPM SCSI disks.
[22:24:58] <Chris_S> (That's per disk; figure out how your IO is going to divide over them and etc)
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[22:29:53] <e^ipi> lets see if I can build ia64-solaris-elf-gcc without issues
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[22:31:39] <e^ipi> bets anyone?
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[22:32:10] <e^ipi> 2:1 odds in favour of 'no'
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[22:35:30] <Plaidrab> I don't suppose anyone knows if there is a directive for syslogd that will let t taken messages longer than 1K ( particularly in Solaris 5.9 )
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[22:36:25] <l1s> is there any packaglist out who gives an overview about the aviable packages on dvd?
[22:39:18] <trygvis> is it really so that the gui installer in b75 won't let you control the FS layout?
[22:39:52] <l1s> found a solution
[22:40:05] <flyingparchment> trygvis: that installer has hardly any options.  use the old one instead (select sxce from the grub menu)
[22:40:16] <trygvis> dang
[22:40:52] * dclarke hates downtime
[22:40:55] <flyingparchment> it's a 'preview' of the real one that's coming, or something
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[22:52:35] <e^ipi> awesome ia64-solaris-elf-gcc built
[22:52:55] <flyingparchment> why would anyone want ia64-solaris? :)
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[22:54:42] <e^ipi> because they're HPUX customers wanting an easier/cheaper migration to solaris?
[22:54:46] <e^ipi> *shrug*
[22:55:20] <twostepsback> hi all, new to opensolaris, but SCJP (actually!) and old Java acquaintance.... is this the place to discuss this NetApp thing? since ZFS is part of opensolaris...
[22:55:29] <e^ipi> because I'd like to see solaris on all the 4 major enterprise architectures... because it'd be cool... because it'd be fun to do
[22:55:35] <e^ipi> I dunno, take your pick
[22:55:48] <twostepsback> so assuming i can discuss here....
[22:55:52] <e^ipi> twostepsback: Sun'll crush netapp and make it painful to stay in business
[22:56:08] <twostepsback> i dont like precisely that...
[22:56:23] <twostepsback> SUN loses popularity like nothing else
[22:56:36] <twostepsback> people can then tout SUN as a Patent troll
[22:56:59] <e^ipi> by fighting back against a company that's trying to litigate instead of innovate to stay in business?
[22:57:01] <twostepsback> if prior art is found, problem solved
[22:57:05] <e^ipi> netapp fired first
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[22:57:15] <twostepsback> the media is a mighty wizard
[22:57:21] <e^ipi> and now they suffer the consequences
[22:57:24] <twostepsback> with deep black magic at its fingertips daily
[22:57:51] <twostepsback> and corporate bosses often listen to the media .... only!
[22:58:06] <twostepsback> this may seem unrelated...
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[22:58:50] <twostepsback> but I can see that everyone other than big baddy m$ is troubled by patents and has had enough of them
[22:58:58] <e^ipi> sun ultimately had no other choice... netapp wanted them to settle for retracting ZFS from opensolaris and forbidding it's use in storage appliances
[22:59:11] <twostepsback> yes yes i know that...
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[22:59:36] <twostepsback> eventaully it comes down to PJ's excellent revelation - M$-NetApp strategic alliance
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[22:59:46] <twostepsback> then the lawsuit
[23:00:02] <twostepsback> in any case, SUN is doing many good things
[23:00:11] <twostepsback> maybe because the free world forced them to
[23:00:23] <g4lt-sb100> yeah, that's why you're in here, because of hte GOOd things, right?
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[23:00:29] <twostepsback> apache harmony, linux, whatever, but that isn;t my point now
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[23:00:31] <bigredradio> I am unable to set a persistant PATH variable. I have tried updating /.dtprofile /.profile /etc/.login but no luck. I am rsh-ing in as root. The shell is /sbin/sh
[23:00:35] <twostepsback> opensolaris
[23:00:46] <bigredradio> Any ideas?
[23:00:51] <twostepsback> caould do with some desktop distro, no?
[23:01:11] <twostepsback> like an opensolaris based laptop/desktop or workstation...
[23:01:24] <twostepsback> its like using a cannon to shoot an ant
[23:02:09] <twostepsback> but vishta is similar
[23:02:12] <Honk> is there any place to ask questions about belenix? =)
[23:02:17] <twostepsback> and people *like it*
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[23:02:42] <e^ipi> twostepsback: there are several desktop oriented distros and one more coming in 6 months that sun's dumping money in
[23:02:56] <twostepsback> belenix... yes, so, see http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/37158/
[23:03:14] <twostepsback> and see this: http://2stepsback.net/odl/
[23:03:19] <twostepsback> that i sfor ubuntu
[23:03:27] <twostepsback> the same can be done any and every free OS
[23:03:50] <twostepsback> such a systme will help ground level support staff carrying a laptop
[23:03:57] <twostepsback> into th ecustomer's office
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[23:04:09] <twostepsback> to install opensolaris/belenix/linux/*bsd
[23:04:14] <Honk> errh.. what? =)
[23:04:17] <twostepsback> on their desktops or servers
[23:04:21] <Honk> i need help getting belenix to boot really :)
[23:04:35] <twostepsback> Honk: huh?
[23:04:44] <Honk> i get a grub shell
[23:04:44] <twostepsback> you mean, it still doesn;t boot?
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[23:04:46] <Honk> nothing more
[23:04:50] <twostepsback> ok
[23:05:07] <Honk> and i'm kinda lost what to do or where to find information on what to do =)
[23:05:18] <twostepsback> tons of java apps to fill the desktop
[23:05:36] <twostepsback> just hear me out, please....
[23:06:02] <Honk> i'm trying :)
[23:06:06] <twostepsback> now you also want Java to spread, if you're SUN
[23:06:17] <twostepsback> people want to see what Linux is
[23:06:34] <twostepsback> Java is free and so the community i snot against Java any more
[23:06:48] <Honk> i feel like i'm talking to a bot =)
[23:06:52] <twostepsback> so, why not make a simple applet that loads screenshots of installs
[23:06:57] <twostepsback> no you are not
[23:07:08] <twostepsback> i know that six months is something
[23:07:16] <twostepsback> and sun "dumping" money is something
[23:07:55] <Honk> either i'm not getting a word of what you're saying or you're talking about something completely unrelated
[23:08:02] <twostepsback> installs, sequentially, as per the hardware of the system at the customer's desk
[23:08:03] <Honk> or both :P
[23:08:04] <e^ipi> Honk: i'm relatively certain it's the latter
[23:08:11] <twostepsback> neither
[23:08:13] <twostepsback> very related
[23:08:24] <twostepsback> a web simulation of opensolaris
[23:08:31] <twostepsback> using Java applets
[23:08:43] <twostepsback> people have to download JRE to see it
[23:08:47] <Honk> how is "how to make java spread" related to "why does belenix fail to boot past grub? =)
[23:08:52] <twostepsback> that is traditional monopolistic lockin
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[23:09:05] <v_l> hi
[23:09:08] <twostepsback> belenix or opensolaris will eventually learn how to boot
[23:09:12] <Honk> i'm not here to discuss sun's corporate politics
[23:09:13] <e^ipi> mmhmm... anyways
[23:09:18] <twostepsback> you are there to take care of that
[23:09:45] <Honk> errh
[23:09:48] <twostepsback> lockin... but this time, it's free Java.
[23:09:54] <Honk> it doesnt even get past grub
[23:09:58] <g4lt-sb100> no, honk has as little to do with sun as you do
[23:10:02] <twostepsback> so its not a big issue for FLOSS
[23:10:05] <Honk> grub is not exactly solaris specific ;)
[23:10:05] <e^ipi> Honk: the vast majority of people in here use SX:CE
[23:10:13] <twostepsback> ok ok
[23:10:33] <twostepsback> but at least you guys heard me out. thanks.
[23:10:44] <twostepsback> keep it in mind, it could be useful later on
[23:10:47] <v_l> does anyone know when indiana will be out?
[23:10:52] <Honk> e^ipi: what's that? =)
[23:10:57] <Rivelli> are they ever going to opensource sun studio?
[23:10:58] <twostepsback> when things appear more conducive
[23:11:06] <e^ipi> solaris express community edition
[23:11:07] <g4lt-sb100> no, it's NOT okay if your politics is driving out actual help requests
[23:11:30] <e^ipi> Rivelli: *shrug* who knows
[23:11:31] <twostepsback> ?
[23:11:46] <e^ipi> g4lt-sb100: is he going on about politics?
[23:11:53] <e^ipi> I couldn't make heads or tails of that rant
[23:11:57] <Honk> e^ipi: does it work as livecd?
[23:12:06] <e^ipi> absolutely not
[23:12:15] <Honk> doesnt exactly help me then ;)
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[23:12:39] <twostepsback> ok let me put it this way...
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[23:13:04] <e^ipi> livecd's are overrated
[23:13:14] <twostepsback> i've been trying to get ordinary PC assemblers to move to Linux and FLOSS...
[23:13:30] <Rivelli> e^ipi: do you think not opensourcing sun studio will have much less developers coming from Linux that would have otherwise?
[23:13:43] <Honk> e^ipi: not really
[23:13:46] <e^ipi> Rivelli: it's irrelevant.
[23:13:49] <twostepsback> and they just keep supporting "the default" because everyone says that they "keep supporting the default"
[23:13:58] <Honk> they're exactly what i need right now :]
[23:14:01] <e^ipi> ON builds with gcc just fine
[23:14:18] <e^ipi> studio just generates better code in a lot of cases
[23:14:41] <tsoome1> what it will give to you if you can see source but never will ?
[23:14:50] <SchwarzeKrause> Hi! Could anyone provide me with links to the roadmap and feature list for the upcoming Indiana release? Couldn't find them anywhere
[23:14:59] <tsoome1> how many times have you digged inside gcc?
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[23:15:02] <twostepsback> i would like to see a SUN desktop with Java on it running on OpenSolaris fo some kind just so that there actually is another player in the desktop OS market
[23:15:15] <twostepsback> currently there is none - onle Doze
[23:15:29] <twostepsback> only*
[23:15:43] <e^ipi> SchwarzeKrause: should be on their project page
[23:17:30] <Rivelli> tsoome1: enough :)
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[23:18:17] <twostepsback> well thanks anyway for listening patiently :). my job's done.
[23:18:20] <tsoome1> yea, but average developer, how mant times he/she will?;)
[23:18:22] <twostepsback> good day!
[23:18:33] <tsoome1> i'll bet, not so many
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[23:19:30] <e^ipi> what an inane troll that was
[23:19:59] <Rivelli> agreed, but i heard more than a few people say they like opensource and the more "free" option whenever possible.
[23:20:19] <Gman> SchwarzeKrause, http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/indiana
[23:20:33] <Gman> SchwarzeKrause, though, it's pretty scarce on details, and that's my fault
[23:21:54] <SchwarzeKrause> Well, I'm currently searching for a replace for Vista on my new Santa Rose laptop. I've heard that Solaris has improved hardware support greatly, so I wonder if it can do that better than Linux
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[23:22:26] <SchwarzeKrause> And all the ads say that laptop suport should be improved
[23:22:39] <Gman> SchwarzeKrause, it's getting there in terms of hardware support,  but in my opinion, not quite up to parity with linux
[23:22:50] <Gman> (others may disagree - it depends on what hardware you have)
[23:23:14] <Rivelli> I personally would use solaris whenever possible as long as it supports the hardware. linux still supports more low end hardware.
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[23:23:45] <SchwarzeKrause> Well, I'm talking of some exotic stuff like fingerprint reader and web-cam)
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[23:24:57] <e^ipi> SchwarzeKrause: probably not. YMMV
[23:25:07] <Gman> SchwarzeKrause, some usb devices are supported now, the majority of them probably not
[23:26:16] <e^ipi> patches are welcome, we support libusb
[23:26:22] <SchwarzeKrause> Hm... So, probably waiting for linux 2.6.24 is my choice. I wonder how long would they stabilize all those enormous diffs... Looks like their development model isn't doing well
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[23:57:13] <PinkFreud> hey folks.  I'm apparently trying to do something incredibly complex, and I need a bit of help.
[23:58:17] <PinkFreud> All I'm attempting to do is read the contents of a Solaris x86 disklabel on a disk image, in Linux, so I can determine the offset of the root partition.
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[23:59:12] <PinkFreud> Can this be done?  Everything I try leads me to a dead end.  I'm rather shocked, for instance, to find that fdisk can *create* a sun disklabel, but reading it is apparently another matter entirely...





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