[00:08:42] <jbk> hello
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[00:50:35] <SplasPood> hrm...  is it possible to hide iscsi targets from initiators either by the IP of the initiator or the initiator name?
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[00:53:25] <willie> I have an Ultra60 with a couple of drives which may or may not be the originals. Should I be able to boot it to the EEPROM with a serial cable?
[00:53:32] <willie> cos Ive been failing for hours with minicom -t vt100 9600 8N1
[00:53:39] <willie> Oh and is this the most suitable channel for such questions?
[00:54:24] <tomww> willie: does it have a keyboard and monitor connected?
[00:54:29] <willie> no
[00:54:40] <willie> already been through that gotcha :-)
[00:55:20] <willie> I have a kybd and monitor but the klast tome this box was used it was via a serial terminal and ssh
[00:55:27] <kjetilho> you get nothing on the serial at all?
[00:55:34] <willie> nope
[00:55:39] <willie> offline :-(
[00:55:49] <kjetilho> it's worth a shot to work through the different baud rates
[00:55:58] <kjetilho> the previous owner may have reconfigured it higher
[00:56:01] <willie> and Ive checked that COM1 and 2 are enabled in BIOS
[00:56:02] <tomww> :-) next woul dbe to check the pin-assignment of the cables. is this a know-good cable you are using? especially with PCs, sometimes the serial eventually needs not only gnd, RX/TX -
[00:56:31] <kjetilho> a Sun serial console only needs the three pins
[00:56:37] <kjetilho> IME, anyway
[00:56:48] <willie> Im using minicom on my kubuntu box
[00:56:51] <tomww> true, but the PC on the other side may need more
[00:56:55] <kjetilho> might be different for the servers with RJ45 plug
[00:56:58] <sommerfeld> serial breakout box
[00:57:16] <sommerfeld> see which end lights which lights and figure out if you're missing a null modem.
[00:57:27] <willie> the last time I tried this (with a different box) I used a Laplink cable
[00:57:52] <tomww> ok, here comes the dilletanitc method: use LED and see which pins have a signal. it is safer to put a 1kOhms resitor in serial
[00:58:04] <willie> however a HOWTO I read earlier today says Laplink is no good - so I founsd an old cable to an external modem
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[00:58:46] <willie> I'll ring out the pins with a multimeter -- thanks guys
[00:58:54] <kjetilho> willie: I don't recall, is the Ultra 60 DB9 or DB25?
[00:58:57] <tomww> this is better :-)
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[01:02:41] <nachox> hi all
[01:02:48] <willie> DB25
[01:02:49] <jbk> hello
[01:03:05] <willie> and I can't find my breakout box
[01:03:23] <willie> which I havent needed for years
[01:03:33] <sommerfeld> changes are the external modem cable is a straight-through cable
[01:03:35] <willie> funny feeling I lent it out......
[01:03:38] <sommerfeld> whereas you need a null modem
[01:04:02] <kjetilho> too bad, a null-modem DB9-DB9 is much easier to pick up in the shops
[01:04:05] <willie> and in your experience , is a Laplink cable a no-no?
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[01:04:37] <kjetilho> oh -- you did say "cable to an external modem"
[01:04:42] <kjetilho> that will certainly not work
[01:05:08] <willie> I did find an unused BD9 and DB25 and a gender bender -- I feel some soldering coming on
[01:05:38] <willie> OK  I'll try the Laplink and then solder something up if that fails
[01:09:03] <tomww> just for completeness, on db9 send/receive are on 1+2 and on db25 on 2+3 IIRC :-)
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[01:10:36] <kjetilho> what's the third pin you need?  I forget
[01:11:35] <willie> s'OK I'll google    - I used to have a brill page for all that shit bookmarked
[01:11:47] <willie> about 3 laptops ago :-(
[01:12:02] <kjetilho> what you don't migrate your home directory?
[01:12:15] * kjetilho has the same home directory he started out with in 1989
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[01:14:59] <jafari> hello all
[01:15:22] <jafari> im trying to boot scxe cd1 and it wont
[01:15:26] <jafari> can anyone help me
[01:16:26] <jafari> i burned like 4 different cds to see if it was a bad burn
[01:16:33] <jafari> and nothing works
[01:17:05] <kjetilho> look at the CD contents -- does it contain many files, or just a single iso-file?
[01:18:36] <jafari> you want me to check the cd
[01:18:51] <jafari> i think it has man files
[01:18:54] <jafari> many
[01:19:26] <kjetilho> okay, just a common mistake
[01:19:35] <jafari> i have a white box cdrom
[01:19:53] <jafari> that i use to use to install the old version of solaris i had
[01:20:03] <jafari> and now the old version doesnt bot either
[01:20:12] <kjetilho> is it SPARC?
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[01:20:57] <jafari> yeah check this output
[01:20:58] <jafari> http://pastebin.com/d35b2c6a7
[01:21:01] <jafari> i pasted
[01:21:11] <tomww> kjetilho: ground (might be 5 on db9 and 7 or 20 on db25 (pls verify, i forgot this) )
[01:22:23] <kjetilho> jafari: hmm, not sure if the newer SPARC servers still require the 512 byte block support
[01:22:34] <willie> http://www.nullmodem.com/NullModem.htm
[01:23:02] <willie> bookmarked now  - that wasnt the page I used to have but it looks gen enough
[01:23:40] <kjetilho> older SPARC servers essentially required a CDROM from Sun, or with special firmware, or a jumper.
[01:24:05] <jafari> hmm
[01:24:40] <tomww> the toshiba drived and a few others had a 512byte jumper :-)
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[01:25:31] <kjetilho> I had an external SGI branded Sony SCSI CDROM player with a jumper :)
[01:25:39] <BadKarma> what is name_to_major function anyway ... theres no manpage on it
[01:26:05] <kjetilho> BadKarma: maps driver name to major number for its devices
[01:26:13] <jafari> so what can i do to fix this
[01:26:45] <kjetilho> jafari: the easiest is probably to do network boot instead, if you have another Unix computer
[01:26:52] <willie> yaay   Laplink cable +genderbenders worked   - now I have an {0} ok prompt
[01:26:53] <jafari> i had solaris 10 release 6/06 running that i booted from this cdrom
[01:27:00] <willie> now the real fun begins :-
[01:27:01] <willie> )
[01:27:06] <jafari> @_@
[01:27:18] <kjetilho> jafari: oh, you did -- I thought you said you'd switched the drive in the interim
[01:27:28] <jafari> nah
[01:27:34] <tomww> willie: congrats :-)
[01:27:35] <kjetilho> well then I guess the 512 byte thing quirk is a thing of the past
[01:27:35] <BadKarma> kjetilho: ok... teke me thru this ... here is an example line "cmdk 102"  so cmdk is a driver and what is this number.. I mean its a major number as you explained, but where does that come from
[01:27:38] <jafari> im just trying to upgrade now
[01:27:40] <jafari> to the lastes
[01:27:57] <jafari> and it wont boot from cdrom anymore
[01:27:58] <BadKarma> s/teke/take/g
[01:28:13] <jafari> is it because of the firmware i have
[01:28:13] <tomww> BadKarma: this major number has to be unique per machine (except: cluster)
[01:28:17] <kjetilho> BadKarma: if you do, say ls -lL /dev/null -- you'll see two numbers where the size is usually
[01:28:27] <kjetilho> the first of this is the major number, the second is the minor
[01:28:47] <Bartman007> ooo, SXCE 75 is out.
[01:28:48] <tomww> so device files with block/char/somelse access have majornumer,minornumber
[01:28:49] <kjetilho> when you open this device file in the kernel, the kernel uses the major number to find out which driver to call
[01:29:03] <kjetilho> s/open/open and send commands to/
[01:29:20] <BadKarma> I see
[01:29:25] <kjetilho> the *name* of the device file is actually quite arbitrary
[01:29:26] <BadKarma> thanks, thats a lot of help
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[01:29:56] <kjetilho> you can use mknod to create a device file whereever you like, you can try it with the null device if you like
[01:31:08] <BadKarma> its ok
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[01:34:57] <Bartman007> so what is the accepted upgrade path for SXCE w/ ZFS boot
[01:35:20] <tomww> this might be the Bartman007 method
[01:35:50] <Triskelios> Bartman007: in-place upgrade sorta works, BFU works but your userland lags behind..
[01:36:00] <jafari> whats the lastest openboot version out? and where can i find the latest to upgrade the one i have openboot 4.0 to the latest?
[01:36:24] <sommerfeld> actually, BFU upgrades that part of userland which comes from ON.
[01:36:25] <Bartman007> Triskelios: hehe, sorta works? do I have to worry about dingos running wild?
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[01:37:18] <tomww> Bartman007: if you have the disk-space, copy root-filesystems back to ufs and upgrade there, then move this new release back on the zfs boot
[01:37:23] <tomww> as an alternative
[01:37:39] <bigredradio> I have a noob question. How can I change my PATH for persistant logins? I am rshing in as root.
[01:37:49] <Triskelios> Bartman007: it's strictly a hack, but the result should be sane
[01:38:05] <bigredradio> I have tried .dtprofile .profile /etc/default/login /etc/default/su, but no change
[01:38:08] <Bartman007> tomww: hmmm, that's kinda what I assumed.
[01:38:34] <Bartman007> sommerfeld: but BFU kills package mangement, right?
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[01:38:47] <tomww> bigredradio: you might add your machine-local defaults into /etc/default/login - but ~root/.profile might be a more stable alternative
[01:38:56] <sommerfeld> BFU kills upgradability
[01:39:13] <sommerfeld> it doesn't kill package management of non-ON packages
[01:39:33] <Bartman007> sommerfeld: that's what I thought, thansk.
[01:39:48] <sommerfeld> it doesn't *entirely* kill upgradeability but it requires lots of free space and an understanding of the packaging system in order to un-BFU a system.
[01:39:49] <bigredradio> tomww: I tried /.profile but no change.
[01:40:00] <jbk> Bartman007: snap upgrade i believe is supposed to be coming soon
[01:40:01] <tokyoeye> tomww, i'm note sure ~root exists on a default install
[01:40:05] <jbk> that'd be the easiest thing
[01:40:07] <tomww> which shell ar you using, and is the remote-login an interactive shell?
[01:40:16] <Triskelios> jbk: in-place *does* work...
[01:40:21] <jbk> if you're adventerous, you do manually install the new bits to it's own fs
[01:40:33] <jbk> in the same pool
[01:40:34] <bigredradio> tomww: /sbin/sh
[01:41:09] <jafari> when i do devalias at the openboot prompt it shows cdrom /pci@1f,0/ide@d/cdrom@3,0:f
[01:41:17] <tomww> bigredradio: you've don two separate commands:  1.line  PATH=$PATH:/add/this/path
[01:41:26] <tomww> bigredradio: 2.line export PATH
[01:41:28] <Triskelios> Bartman007: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=157477
[01:41:29] <jafari> when i do show-disks
[01:41:32] <bigredradio> tomww: yes
[01:41:38] <jafari> choose a) for cdrom
[01:41:40] <tomww> since /sbin/sh is not ksh or bash  you know
[01:42:00] <jafari> for the cdrom
[01:42:11] <jafari> is there something wrong with my openboot
[01:42:19] <Bartman007> Triskelios: lol, I ran across that post earlier, I didn't even look at the poster :-)
[01:43:17] <bigredradio> tomww: do you know where the path is originally set? It's not in /etc/profile
[01:44:14] <tomww> bigredradio: /etc/default/login
[01:44:32] <bigredradio> tomww: BTW, when you said ~root where you being literal?
[01:44:33] <tokyoeye> bigredradio, check /etc/default/login for normal login and /etc/default/su for su login
[01:44:50] <bigredradio> tokyoeye: Yeah, neither of them seemed to work either.
[01:45:21] <tomww> bigredradio: didn't know if you changed the home-dirctor for user root, so ~root should point to whatever you've chosen
[01:45:48] <Bartman007> Triskelios: thanks, I'll start downloading the b75 dvd and play with the script later (probably tomorrow)
[01:46:17] <tokyoeye> bigredradio, you are trying to change the path of a normal user?
[01:46:30] <bigredradio> tokyoeye: No. root.
[01:46:45] <bigredradio> rsh in as root.
[01:47:08] <Triskelios> Bartman007: good luck. notice it assumes you have a seperate data pool
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[01:47:32] <jafari> i did the following to change the cdrom alias
[01:47:33] <jafari> ok devalias cdrom /pci@1f,0/ide@d/cdrom
[01:47:45] <jafari> when i do boot cdrom
[01:48:50] <tokyoeye> bigredradio, use /etc/profile for root user
[01:49:09] <bigredradio> tokyoeye: Yeah. Tried that too.
[01:49:14] <Bartman007> Triskelios: yeah, got a bit of non booting related stuff on the rootpool, but I'll copy that all over to the data pool before I upgrade (just in case)
[01:49:48] <tokyoeye> bigredradio, you log on directly as root user? or do you ssh into the box and use su?
[01:49:56] <bigredradio> jafari: Are you trying to set the alias in openfirmware?
[01:50:05] <jafari> yeah
[01:50:10] <jafari> im at the ok prompt
[01:50:17] <Bartman007> in terms of standard OS related stuff, I've just got / on rootpool/rootfs and the home dirs on a second fs on the same pool.
[01:50:20] <bigredradio> nvalias is persistant. (At least on IBM Systemp)
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[01:50:35] <bigredradio> devalias is temporaty
[01:51:34] <jafari> what is the latest openboot out?
[01:52:07] <jafari> is did devalias mydev /pci@1f,0/ide@d/cdrom
[01:52:23] <jafari> i typed boot mydev
[01:52:24] <jafari> Executing last command: boot mydev
[01:52:24] <jafari> Boot device: /pci@1f,0/ide@d/disk@0,0 File and args: mydev
[01:52:24] <jafari> boot: cannot open mydev
[01:52:25] <jafari> Enter filename [mydev]:
[01:52:41] <jafari> dont get what im doing wrong
[01:52:57] <jafari> i been trying to boot these cds for 2 days now
[01:53:05] <jafari> im getting really frusrated
[01:53:12] <jafari> help is appreciated greatly
[01:53:18] <jafari> im pulling my hair out
[01:54:37] <bigredradio> jafari: Can you boot when using the OF devname
[01:55:06] <jafari> OF devname?
[01:56:36] <holcomb> xit
[01:56:40] <holcomb> oops
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[01:58:33] <bigredradio> jafari: OpenFirmware device name. /pci@1f,0/ide@d/disk@0,0
[01:59:20] <bigredradio> jafari: I am an IBMer so I see you call it OpenBoot.
[02:00:16] <delewis> what being an IBMer has to do with OpenBoot, I have no clue.
[02:00:26] <delewis> OpenBoot 3.x = OpenFirmware 1.x
[02:00:32] <delewis> OpenBoot 4.x = OpenFirmware 2.x
[02:01:09] <delewis> IBM didn't touch OpenBoot until it was OpenFirmware to use in their PReP and CHRP systems.
[02:02:03] <bigredradio> delewis: Ah.
[02:02:53] <bigredradio> delewis: I had not heard of OpenBoot before. Thought the terms OpenBoot and OpenFirmware meant the same thing.
[02:03:01] <delewis> no, they're very different.
[02:03:10] <delewis> OpenFirmware signifies when OpenBoot became "open"
[02:03:27] <delewis> prior to OpenFirmware 1.x, OpenBoot 1.x and 2.x were specific to Sun only.
[02:04:33] <bigredradio> jafari: Back to your test. Can you boot using the device name rather than the alias?
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[02:09:56] <jafari> yea
[02:10:57] <bigredradio> ah well. It's miller time...gotta go
[02:11:00] <bigredradio> sorry
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[02:37:09] <BadKarma> ok yet an another question on EFI... it is said that EFI provides usable slices 0-6 where slice 2 is just another slice... how should I understand this?
[02:39:06] <BadKarma> ok let me rephrase.. why slice 2 (backup /overlap/ whatever you call it) is so important in old VTOC model
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[02:44:05] <niuq> hi, i'd like to download opensolaris, but not sure what version should i download
[02:44:12] <niuq> this is my first experience with solaris
[02:45:00] <auto359> niuq: what sort of system will you be installing onto?
[02:45:22] <auto359> x86/sun etc?
[02:45:27] <tokyoeye> niuq, hi  remember you from the debian channel :-)
[02:45:39] <niuq> tokyoeye: lol hi
[02:45:40] <tokyoeye> niuq, get the developer edition
[02:45:54] <tokyoeye> niuq, it will keep you busy for a couple of months ;-)
[02:45:57] <niuq> my old computer would be able to run it?
[02:46:14] <auto359> how old is old?
[02:46:29] <niuq> 192 ram / celeron 2.13 / 40 gb hd
[02:46:40] <niuq> old motherboard
[02:46:41] <tokyoeye> niuq, i think it will be ok. you might want to try the console install. it might seem a bit daunting at first but just follow the steps and you'll be ok
[02:46:42] <niuq> i think so
[02:46:43] <auto359> er i doubt it, RAM wise
[02:46:50] <niuq> mmm
[02:46:53] <niuq> i have a laptop
[02:46:56] <niuq> with 1gb ram
[02:47:01] <niuq> 2.13 centrino
[02:47:11] <auto359> don't you need a minimum of 768mb or something? requiremints are on the SCDE site
[02:47:12] <niuq> 64 video and 80 hd
[02:47:44] <niuq> i download it a devoloper edition a couple of weeks ago, and i think the requirements were pretty high for my computers
[02:47:57] <niuq> tokyoeye: mmmm
[02:48:17] <tokyoeye> niuq, just give it a try! i'm sure you'll like it
[02:48:34] <tokyoeye> niuq, or you could wait a week and wait for the project indiana release
[02:48:52] <niuq> tokyoeye: yes, i want to, just looking for the right version ^^
[02:48:55] <tokyoeye> niuq, it'll be a bit more like a linux
[02:48:56] <auto359> niuq: read this => http://developers.sun.com/sxde/sys_req.jsp
[02:49:07] <dprice> tokyoeye: that's going to be slightly more of a prototype....
[02:49:46] <dprice> but it's starting to come together
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[02:50:05] <tokyoeye> dprice, can;t wait to download it though :-) and i think getting new users aboard is not a bad thing
[02:50:08] <niuq> auto359: those are the requirements for all versions?
[02:50:12] <auto359> i installed SXDE onto a x86/AMD64, used all my 1GB mem last night with firefox and netbeans open
[02:50:29] <auto359> niuq: no just for the SXDE
[02:50:45] <auto359> which goes nicely onto x86 arch ... which i/you have
[02:50:50] <niuq> so what version do you recommend ?
[02:51:01] <niuq> yes i do have a x86 with 1gb
[02:51:04] <dprice> get the latest sxde
[02:51:05] <niuq> but i'm kind of scared
[02:51:10] <auto359> on your pc ... with 192mb ram, debian etch ...
[02:51:25] <niuq> lol tokyoeye: th
[02:51:37] <tokyoeye> niuq, open solaris is sweet and a lot nicer than debian so i really think you should try it
[02:51:38] <niuq> they are sending me back to debian :P
[02:51:41] <auto359> chances are even *if* your sys could run SXDE, you will have hardware compatibility issues
[02:51:54] <niuq> i could try it with my laptop?
[02:52:08] <tokyoeye> nico, yes! just give it a go!
[02:52:10] <dprice> yes, likely, what is it?
[02:52:11] <auto359> my sys is 8 months old and my fancy sound card is unsupported and get internet was some work
[02:52:14] <auto359> laptop, yes
[02:52:27] <dprice> the wireless driver support has come a long way recently
[02:52:28] <niuq> and whare are all those versions?
[02:52:31] <niuq> belenix
[02:52:32] <niuq> martux
[02:52:47] <auto359> they are in the opensolaris community portal
[02:52:54] <dprice> see http://opensolaris.org/os/downloads/ for those
[02:53:31] <niuq> tokyoeye: so you recommend me to download developer version for my laptop?
[02:54:08] <tokyoeye> niuq, yes. just see if you like it. if you don't you just install debian anyway ;-)
[02:54:39] <niuq> auto359: is there any version that my old computer could support?
[02:55:00] <auto359> sorry, i don't know enpough about solaris to answer that
[02:55:02] <tokyoeye> niuq, make sure to check on things happening over the next few weeks. lots of exiting stuff happening at the solaris front.
[02:55:09] <dprice> for compatibility see http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/hcl/  and http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/hcl/hcts/device_detect.jsp
[02:55:51] <niuq> tokyoeye: '.' ok ok i'll be around
[02:57:02] <auto359> there is a tool that you can run on your system to ascertain if it will likely pass the SXDE criteria ... however it is based on Java, sooo, if you have no Java on your system, it won't work
[02:58:11] <niuq> tokyoeye: btw, i already downloaded the developer edition, there is any kind of danger with my hd :P, i've heard some kind of rumors that a missconfiguration with the installation of solaris kills your hd, not sure about that :P
[02:58:37] <auto359> i had to boot into winxp (gah), run the tool, it said sound card would fail (which it did), yet on the actual install the onboard NIC didn't work either, so hardware compatibility for installation onto x86 arch is a key concern
[02:58:42] <niuq> i do have java on my laptop
[02:58:50] <dprice> auto359: what's the nic?
[02:58:56] <auto359> er wait
[02:58:58] <niuq> actually i'm learning java programming, it's just so cool!
[02:59:20] <tokyoeye> niuq, installing solaris will kill your harddisk, your pets and everyone in a 500 mile radius around you.
[02:59:30] <niuq> lol
[02:59:41] <auto359> Realtek RTL8201CL 10/100M LAN PHY
[02:59:50] <niuq> i has something like the grub for dual boot?
[02:59:51] <tokyoeye> niuq, the installer will check your disk and help you through the disk paritioning
[02:59:57] <niuq> it**
[03:00:05] <niuq> ok thank you
[03:00:10] <auto359> dprice: sorry, Realtek RTL8201CL 10/100M LAN PHY
[03:00:14] <niuq> i'll just kill windows i think and install solaris
[03:00:26] <tokyoeye> niuq, if you have windows installed it will detect it
[03:00:40] <niuq> tokyoeye: i have windows / ubuntu
[03:00:41] <auto359> dprice: i ended up disabling the onboard LAN and installing a realtek 8139 clone pci_nic ... works
[03:00:58] <niuq> tokyoeye: i feel like killing windows, it's just a mess of os :S
[03:01:10] <auto359> niuq: then do it
[03:01:31] <auto359> take a chance, you don't like unix, reinstall windows/debian etc
[03:01:46] <tokyoeye> niuq, it will probably detect the windows installation and add it to the bootloader menu. not sure about ubuntu though. you should obviously make a backup before you change drive partitions.
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[03:02:10] <niuq> tokyoeye: i will, and read documents before making a move
[03:02:14] <auto359> personally, unless i was running an app that has to work in win32 or a game i'd die with out, there is no real reason to stick with windows
[03:02:51] <auto359> tokyoeye: a comment on this. yes it will identify your windows and include into the GRUB menu but it will *not* identify your linux partition
[03:02:57] <niuq> well my stupid university make me stick on windows
[03:03:14] <dprice> yeah looks like 8139 is supported...
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[03:03:25] <auto359> niuq: you will need to read the docs/ first, cos there is a method of manually including linux to GURB after the install
[03:03:54] <tokyoeye> auto359, do you know why it doesn't?
[03:03:57] <niuq> auto359: i will
[03:04:00] <auto359> dprice: those realtek 8139's are a good basic NIC
[03:04:12] <auto359> tokyoeye: no, the docs just say it doesn't
[03:04:18] <dprice> auto359: looks like you might be able to use murayama's 'rf' driver, but it's hard to be sure  http://homepage2.nifty.com/mrym3/taiyodo/eng/
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[03:04:41] <auto359> make a backup of your /boot/grub/menu.lst niuq before the install and email it to yourself
[03:04:59] <auto359> dprice: ta
[03:06:22] <auto359> niuq: http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/820-0462/6nc6uh7s2?a=view
[03:06:40] <niuq> ok ok, thank you auto359
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[03:06:56] <niuq> i think i'll be around
[03:07:01] <auto359> niuq: i just realised that the comment re no linux in your GRUB was off a screencast
[03:07:43] <niuq> auto359: what do you mean?
[03:08:13] <auto359> just that i can't see that info in the SXDE/docs site, i'll keep looking for you
[03:08:53] <niuq> ohh i see
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[03:11:31] <auto359> niuq: can't find it atm, read this => http://developers.sun.com/sxde/tech_faq.jsp ... honestly if you want to try solaris, trash your ubuntu, preserve your winxp and the default dual-boot solaris-windows will be fine
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[03:12:25] <auto359> k, i'm off to buy some more ram, mem-hungry java apps 8-)
[03:15:03] <niuq> an upgrade of 2 gb would be nice to my laptop i think ^^
[03:15:30] <auto359> i have 1gb, macxed it yesterday using firefox and netbeans
[03:15:32] <niuq> http://developers.sun.com/sxde/tech_faq.jsp#q_9
[03:15:37] <niuq> i'll try that thing
[03:15:59] <auto359> k, enjoy
[03:16:09] <niuq> thanks :D
[03:16:18] <niuq> btw what version of netbeans are you using?
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[03:17:04] <auto359> was default (5.5.1), installed 6.0Beta yesterday, better ruby/rails support
[03:17:42] <niuq> i've never used ruby
[03:20:04] <auto359> niuq: k, i'm only new, 6 months, is easy to pick up, IMHO, i'm not a programmer
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[03:24:35] <auto359> niuq: you are learning Java prog?
[03:24:43] <niuq> yes i am
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[03:25:17] <niuq> i've been reading a deitel book how to program with java, and a book from wrox
[03:25:26] <auto359> k, neat
[03:25:29] <niuq> but i just get "core java 2"
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[03:32:43] <nrubsig> dmarker: ping!
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[04:25:31] <e^ipi> so, who wants to send me the leopard zfs read/write kext?
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[04:35:47] <auto359> e^ipi: morning, are you planning to use it for solaris?
[04:35:56] <e^ipi> what?
[04:36:10] <auto359> the leopard zfs soec?
[04:36:13] <auto359> spec*
[04:36:20] <e^ipi> kext, not spec
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[04:36:49] <e^ipi> mac OSX leopard can read ZFS, though it appears only old versions of it
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[04:37:25] <e^ipi> the read/write kernel module exists, though it appears only for developers somewhere
[04:37:42] <auto359> k, i'm just reading that on opensolaris/forum
[04:38:10] <e^ipi> no specs are required, because apple straight up lifted the code from opensolaris
[04:38:13] <e^ipi> our specs are their specs
[04:38:19] <auto359> ahh k
[04:38:30] <jbk> their water mingles with our water?
[04:38:31] <jbk> :)
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[04:41:46] <e^ipi> apple loves opensource, it's a good way for them to add free features to their closed source operating system
[04:42:44] <auto359> indeed, so if you guys can't get this kext, i will not be able to run solaris natively on an imac?
[04:43:13] <e^ipi> you misunderstand the problem.
[04:43:17] <e^ipi> I have a macbook
[04:43:20] <e^ipi> it runs OSX
[04:43:29] <e^ipi> I have a sparc, it runs Solaris
[04:43:46] <auto359> k
[04:43:47] <e^ipi> I have a USB key that is formatted ZFS
[04:43:59] <e^ipi> my sparc likes it... my macbook does not
[04:44:04] <auto359> got ya
[04:44:16] <e^ipi> with the ZFS read/write kernel module for OSX, i can use it on both machines
[04:44:49] <auto359> ahh, yes i did misunderstand
[04:44:53] <e^ipi> and then I'm happy, because ZFS is awesome
[04:45:14] * auto359 is a solaris-newb/unix dummy ... but learning
[04:47:26] <jbk> zfs is neat.. i wish i could use it at work
[04:48:47] <jamesd> is going to test it on a some luns exported from an  EMC  3500   iirc
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[04:51:23] <jbk> evening
[04:51:39] <binarycrusader> evening
[04:52:09] <binarycrusader> Well, for the first time I'm aware of, someone has invoked Godwin's law by comparing Sun to Nazis.
[04:52:16] <binarycrusader> I can't even begin to comment :P
[04:52:17] <jbk> haha
[04:52:21] <jbk> a slashole?
[04:52:22] <e^ipi> binarycrusader: ?
[04:52:28] <e^ipi> URL?
[04:52:35] <binarycrusader> One moment.
[04:53:01] <binarycrusader> http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/trademark-policy-dev/2007-October/000096.html
[04:53:36] <jbk> ahh i remember seeing that..
[04:53:45] <jbk> it sounds like he's bitching at the contributor agreement iirc
[04:53:46] <binarycrusader> People are morons.
[04:54:10] <binarycrusader> The SCA is joint-ownership first of all, and secondly, FSF and Apache do the same damn thing. So does almost every other major project.
[04:54:24] <jbk> yes
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[04:54:54] <binarycrusader> What it comes down to is people don't trust Sun (double standard) or they just don't like someone else being in control.
[04:55:01] <jbk> yep
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[04:55:19] <binarycrusader> I can't take any post seriously that invokes Godwin's law though.
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[04:55:30] <e^ipi> certain subsets of the open-source community has a long standing irrational dislike for sun
[04:55:41] <binarycrusader> Which is quite irrational given their contributions.
[04:55:50] <binarycrusader> Little things like, oh say, NFS, Gnome HIG, etc.
[04:55:59] <jbk> NIS
[04:56:00] <jbk> VFS interface
[04:56:03] <jbk> slab allocator
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[04:56:19] <binarycrusader> ZFS, DTrace...
[04:56:20] <binarycrusader> <g>
[04:57:31] <jbk> of course, also related i think is this continued perception that companies are somehow of one borg-like mind and everyone thinks and acts accordingly
[04:57:40] <jbk> when the reality is quite the opposite in most cases
[04:57:41] <binarycrusader> Yep, gotta love that.
[04:57:50] <binarycrusader> I love how most people think that all Sun employees "tow the company line."
[04:58:01] <binarycrusader> They haven't listened to John Plocher very long :}
[04:58:05] <jbk> :)
[04:58:06] <binarycrusader> ...or others.
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[04:58:45] <jbk> that was one very reassuring thing about the summit.. i think all of the sun people there were very cognisant of their 'sun hat' and 'opensolaris hat'
[04:59:37] <e^ipi> I concur
[04:59:54] <binarycrusader> This is unrelated, but is there anyone here that can tell me what the special -Wu flag is to get the compiler to support GNU extensions?
[05:00:01] <binarycrusader> Since there are so many wonderful undocumented flags.
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[05:00:19] <binarycrusader> I've found a page on a few of them, but not the one I awnt.
[05:00:24] <jbk> no idea
[05:00:24] <binarycrusader> http://www.genunix.org/wiki/index.php/OpenSolaris_Wizard_Options
[05:01:43] 
[05:02:14] <binarycrusader> Sun Studio docs are lacking :|
[05:02:26] <jbk> how obivous :)
[05:02:41] <jbk> is it merely setting all the bits?
[05:02:45] <binarycrusader> Yes, first 128 bits.
[05:03:22] <binarycrusader> I know I could rewrite it by hand...but what a pain.
[05:03:46] <jbk> seems a bit of a awkward syntax..
[05:03:59] <binarycrusader> Convenient seemingly. But yes, awkward.
[05:05:31] <jbk> i've often wondered about a language suitable for low level tasks, but with a richer syntax for OOP, threading, synchronization...
[05:05:44] <binarycrusader> Sounds like objective-c <g>
[05:06:07] <binarycrusader> Not much personal experience with it, but I usually hear those things attributed to it.
[05:06:08] <jbk> with a useable syntax :)
[05:06:13] <binarycrusader> Haha.
[05:07:14] <jbk> i think (and this is 100% uninformed :P) that obj-c suffers from some of the same pitfalls as c++ -- all c is supposedly valid obj-c, and iirc, the same was true _originally_ for c++ (but has since changed)
[05:08:14] <jbk> kinda handcuffs you for expressing new concepts
[05:08:29] <e^ipi> no, C is a proper subset of objc
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[05:08:55] <jbk> isn't that what I said?
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[05:09:05] <jbk> or is the alcohol already getting to me? :)
[05:09:19] <e^ipi> oh, yes.. sorry
[05:09:34] <e^ipi> i thought you were saying that there was some C that didn't work in objc, which is not the case
[05:09:47] <jbk> ahh ok..
[05:10:08] <e^ipi> there's some valid C that a C++ compiler can't deal with, examples of which have slipped my memory at the moment
[05:10:43] <jbk> but even if such a language were invented, you have the issue of adoption...
[05:10:56] <jbk> so it's probably more of a research type exercise than anything...
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[06:45:44] <Tempt> 'ello all.
[06:45:54] <Rivelli> hi
[06:45:55] <jbk> hello
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[06:58:04] <e^ipi> oops, forgot about that
[06:58:17] <e^ipi> don't yank a zpool usb device...
[06:58:38] <jbk> panic?
[06:58:51] <Tempt> panic on the streets of London
[06:59:13] <e^ipi> jbk: yeah
[06:59:37] <jbk> i seem to recall an arc case addressing that... so perhaps soon it will no longer be an issue
[06:59:43] <e^ipi> also, I found the leopard ZFS driver... it was hidden at the adc site
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[07:01:01] <Tempt> Wow, this 880 actually running at 100% CPU load now.
[07:01:08] <Tempt> Actually getting some work to keep it busy.
[07:01:18] <jbk> neat
[07:01:25] <Tempt> Running blender.
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[07:01:43] <Tempt> e^ipi: Is that read-only or full access?
[07:01:50] <e^ipi> full access
[07:01:53] <Tempt> nice
[07:01:54] <Tempt> Very nice.
[07:02:02] <e^ipi> leopard ships with read only, you can download the full access
[07:02:05] <Tempt> Lovely.
[07:02:14] <jbk> did you see some of the stuff going into b77?
[07:02:17] <Tempt> Has Leopard been released for PowerPC or only x86?
[07:02:18] <e^ipi> based off zfs 6 too ( the one that introduced boot-volumes )
[07:02:24] <e^ipi> Tempt: both
[07:02:28] <Tempt> Lovely.
[07:02:33] <Tempt> I might upgrade my crapple.
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[07:03:15] <Tempt> Is there iSCSI support on Leopard yet?
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[07:03:31] <jbk> http://blogs.sun.com/bobp/entry/fish_n_cifs
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[07:04:02] <jbk> i think all that's missing is a web gui for the brain-dead
[07:04:19] <e^ipi> Tempt: yes, somewhere in there
[07:05:01] <jbk> well that and the fc pieces so zvols can act as a fc target
[07:05:06] <Tempt> Not sure I think kernel CIFS is quite that exciting.
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[07:05:48] <jbk> well it's not just cifs
[07:05:57] <LeftWing> Mirror mounts is pleasing.
[07:06:09] <Tempt> Mmm.
[07:06:24] <LeftWing> I hope it gets pulled into 10 U5.
[07:06:33] <Tempt> zvols as FC target is fucking fantastic though
[07:06:44] <Tempt> Just toss a dozen thumpers on your fabric and be happy(tm)
[07:06:54] <LeftWing> haha
[07:07:50] <Tempt> I'd be extremely impressed if they release a T2 based thumper
[07:08:03] <Tempt> All that cheap storage + on-chip 10gig ethernet + crypto
[07:08:13] <jbk> Tempt: well that's not there yet, but there is a project
[07:09:26] <Rivelli> hey guys is 512 enough memory to run opensolaris in a gnome enviorment?
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[07:10:03] <Tempt> Well
[07:10:06] <Tempt> 512 is plenty of Solaris
[07:10:11] <Tempt> add another 8Gb for GNOME
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[07:10:55] <Rivelli> gnome really that slow? i always had the impression that kde was slow but gnome was much better.
[07:12:00] <e^ipi> yes, a common albeit incorrect assumption ... gnome and all it's support libs is about as memory intensive as kde and all it's support libs
[07:14:40] <Rivelli> its for my laptop. id like to just install the express developer edition quick status but the memory requirements make it so I cant have the developer tools included. i will have to add them after. does the opensolarus laptop community have the best laptops only or what?
[07:14:56] <jbk> for me at least.. i'll have 4-10 terminals open + web browser typically
[07:15:05] <jbk> gnome worked fine in 512mb (on sparc at least) for that
[07:15:29] <jbk> though gnome-terminal would sometimes act goofy
[07:15:40] <Rivelli> its all about xterm right?
[07:16:20] <jbk> well i tend to find tabs easier for managing screen real estate
[07:16:45] * LeftWing just bolts on more screen real estate.
[07:16:46] <Rivelli> yeah tabs are nice
[07:16:52] <jbk> and mrxvt annoys me for some reason
[07:17:55] <Rivelli> no command to force the installer to install the developer tools as well?
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[07:18:24] <jbk> i think there's a script
[07:21:28] <e^ipi> well that's interesting...
[07:21:33] <Tempt> who needs terminal tabs when you have screen?
[07:21:46] <e^ipi> it seems leopard has created an unreadable zpool within a zpool
[07:22:27] <e^ipi> or rather, has wrapped a zpool around a previously readable one and made it unreadable
[07:23:22] <e^ipi> wow... they sure weren't kidding about this being a beta
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[07:42:09] <jteo> Tempt: you got your hands on an n880 already?
[07:42:24] <Tempt> jteo: n880?
[07:42:39] <jteo> umm..oh. n810 i meant.
[07:42:45] <Tempt> naah
[07:42:50] <Tempt> Not going to pay up for one.
[07:42:55] <jteo> ah you were talking about your v880?
[07:42:56] <Tempt> Bought the 770 because it was cheap.
[07:43:02] <Tempt> Yes, v880.
[07:43:17] <jteo> my mistake. :P
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[08:06:33] <Teltariat> greets folks.  In the Opensolaris installation DVD, within the 'boot' directory, what is the difference betwen the arches 'i86pc' and 'i86xpv' ?
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[08:23:39] <e^ipi> benr__: around?
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[08:32:37] <e^ipi> meh, he'll find out sooner or later...
[08:33:05] <jbk> ?
[08:33:16] <jteo> ?
[08:36:33] <e^ipi> about leopards' zfs breaking things
[08:37:04] <e^ipi> i have a USB key now that i need to find some other way to fix
[08:37:36] <jbk> screws up the on disk format?
[08:37:57] <e^ipi> I don't know what it did actually
[08:38:19] <jteo> zdb might prove helpful.
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[08:59:28] <Fish> hello
[09:01:57] <Rivelli> hi
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[09:19:04] <zero452225> Hello
[09:19:15] <zero452225> hows it going in here tonight?
[09:19:24] <e^ipi> okay, so there's a series of steps...
[09:19:43] <e^ipi> step one, don't create zvols... OSX doesn't like that
[09:19:58] <e^ipi> step two, when you want to unmount, unmount, then open a terminal and zfs export
[09:20:37] <e^ipi> and when you want to import, ignore the popup saying the USB key is broke, and then import the pool in terminal
[09:20:40] <e^ipi> ...
[09:20:48] <e^ipi> then things'll work fine
[09:20:50] <jteo> so...the GUI is broken?
[09:20:57] <e^ipi> jteo: appears to be the case, yes
[09:21:02] <e^ipi> the gui and the automounter
[09:21:49] <jteo> ah.
[09:22:34] <zero452225> I read the docs, setup a workarea and did a build of the most current source. I had to change ../1394/targets/scsa1394/hba.c
[09:23:03] <zero452225> edited the opensolaris.sh script ran nightly
[09:23:34] <zero452225> when its done compiling, would I be able to get the module it changed and swap it?
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[09:24:14] <morteng> good morning
[09:25:11] <zero452225> the reason I changed it is because eject dvd-rom on 1394
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[09:25:20] <zero452225> http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/laptop-discuss/2006-July/006845.html
[09:26:45] <jteo> zero452225: it will *probably* work
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[09:27:50] <zero452225> jteo: where would I find the modules?
[09:28:15] <jteo> zero452225: do a capeye Install into /tmp, and dig.
[09:28:34] <jteo> it'll be the same directory structure as your current kernel/modules tree
[09:29:04] <zero452225> jteo: i get ya, thx. this is a trippy problem
[09:29:27] <zero452225> eject well work if its booted with a blank in the drive.
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[09:33:21] <zero452225> I also have another problem. I can't echo alt+* commands. i need to pass to a tty/a . via script
[09:34:24] <zero452225> like echo "^Aabc^A" > /dev/tty/a
[09:35:11] <zero452225> should I try cat?
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[09:48:13] <zero452225> ??
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[10:28:48] <Chewy509> Good Evening, I'm having some problems getting decent DVD playback on my system (recently installed SXDE 09/07) and have managed to install MPlayer. The DVD plays however I'm getting lots of pixelation and dropped frames.
[10:29:11] <Chewy509> Normal DivX/MPEG2 files play back fine...
[10:30:14] <Chewy509> Audio from the DVD is fine.
[10:32:23] <Chewy509> I'm thinking DMA on the DVD drive isn't enabled, how do I check that DMA is enabled for the DVD drive?
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[10:34:05] <RealWickedWicky> http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20071016
[10:34:11] <RealWickedWicky> maybe that will help you ;-)
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[11:17:51] <sickness> morning all
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[11:30:53] <ideasman42__> hey guys
[11:31:56] <ideasman42__> when I downloaded opensolaris 3 dvd dev addition and boot,. all I get is a grub boot prompt
[11:32:05] <ideasman42__> what Im I supposed to type in?
[11:34:18] <Doc> type in "windows blows" and it'll boot
[11:34:28] <Rivelli> hahaha
[11:36:59] <ideasman42__> http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/820-0462/gfgvm?a=view
[11:37:18] <ideasman42__> This website has info but I dont get the grub screen displayed
[11:38:12] <ideasman42__> I just get a standard grub screen with no options
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[11:57:59] <Kamyk_^> elo all :)
[11:58:08] <jmcp_> gday
[11:58:09] <Rivelli> hey
[11:58:42] <jmcp_> nico: btw, first pass analysis of your issue looks like yet more iscsi vs zfs stupidity - the iscsitgtd process had more than 1Gb of kernel mem allocated
[11:59:02] <Kamyk_^> has anyone exp. with SunOne Directoy Server?
[11:59:44] <jmcp_> not me, sorry
[11:59:52] <PerterB> just ask the question, Kamyk_^ ...
[12:00:01] <jmcp_> Kamyk_^: there is bound to be somebody lurking who can help
[12:03:50] <hali> hm, the new installer is all pretty and nice, but it really likes crashing :)
[12:03:54] <Kamyk_^> oki :) i have old and new ldap directory, i want power off ldap, but some app. use old tree, to properly work i shoud use refferall or aliases?
[12:04:09] <Kamyk_^> power off old ldap of course
[12:05:07] <PerterB> if you want to switch it off then surely neither of those approaches will work, you'll have to reconfigure the application
[12:05:40] <Kamyk_^> but i don't want to reconfigure app.
[12:05:51] <Kamyk_^> isn't is any diffrett way?
[12:05:53] <Kamyk_^> to do this?
[12:06:38] <PerterB> not really... if you want to use referrals, then you'll have to keep the old server running to provide those referals
[12:07:06] <Kamyk_^> oki, i know, maybe aliases is good for do that?
[12:07:53] <PerterB> same problem, really... where would you put the aliases? answer, the old server you want to switch off
[12:09:42] <Kamyk_^> hmmm i think - the aliases works on one server, when somebody ask ldap - ou=Users,dc=Firm ldap server use aliases and search in ou=Users,ou=Workers,dc=Firm
[12:09:48] <Kamyk_^> it is possible?
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[12:13:39] <PerterB> yes, but only on the same server (an alias is like a symbolic link within a single directory tree, a referral can point all DN requests for a suffix to same DN on a different server)
[12:13:55] <Kamyk_^> oki :)
[12:14:04] <Kamyk_^> then i need to use aliases
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[12:14:43] <PerterB> oh, so you only have one LDAP server but two directory trees?
[12:16:03] <Kamyk_^> now i hace two servers - old-with old trees and new-with new trees, i miggration data from old to new tree, but new tree is so diffrent, my app. ask old tree. When i switch off old ldap, i want have compability with new ldap tree
[12:17:00] <Tempt> someone in the US might want to check out ebay item 290144795713
[12:17:13] <forelle> hello. has anyone seen problems running java within branded zones? I'm on b66 running debian within the zone and the call to e.g. `java version` does not return...
[12:17:20] <PerterB> ok, but you still have to point the application at the new _server_ but then you can probably use aliases to do what you want
[12:18:06] <Kamyk_^> but i can't find any good docu about aliases in sunone dir. :(
[12:18:28] <PerterB> pretty sure there's a section in the admin guide
[12:18:41] <Kamyk_^> oki, i'll check
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[12:26:03] <Tempt> LeftWing: PING
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[12:39:07] <jmcp_> Tempt: what's the url for that ebay item?
[12:39:55] <Tempt> which ebay item?
[12:40:29] <jmcp_> 290144795713
[12:40:34] <jmcp_> the one you just mentioned
[12:40:46] <Tempt> www.ebay.com
[12:40:49] <Tempt> type the number into the box
[12:40:51] <Tempt> click search
[12:41:59] <jmcp_> I got an error from the site when I did exactly that
[12:42:02] <jmcp_> I'll try again
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[12:42:32] * libkeise1 got a no hits error as well
[12:44:36] * Tempt shrugs
[12:44:45] <Tempt> it was a job lot of Sun Blade 2000s for $1700
[12:45:13] * jmcp_ shrugs
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[12:47:25] <libkeise1> 290174795713
[12:47:32] <libkeise1> you were off by one digit
[12:47:39] <Tempt> aah well
[12:47:49] <Tempt> looked like a reasonable deal for some people to club together, that's all
[12:48:30] <libkeise1> if they were 280r's, that lot would be mine
[12:48:57] <Tempt> If it was local I'd consider it anyway
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[12:49:08] <Tempt> if they were 280Rs, I'd ... ignore them.
[12:49:21] <Tempt> If it was that many v880s for that price, I'd stock up and build a retaining wall
[12:49:29] <libkeise1> hahahaha
[12:50:05] <Tempt> What I'd be willing to pay for now is 4 x 501-6164 and some more memory
[12:50:15] <sommerfeld> I think they work better as electric furnaces
[12:50:34] <Tempt> but I'm not paying ebay stupid prices for them
[12:51:44] <sommerfeld> shortly after the 880 was announced there was a "launch party" held in the burlington campus parking lot.  a small trebuchet was used to launch various prototype bits of hardware and software that had .. caused trouble along the way.
[12:52:04] <Tempt> Man
[12:52:08] <Tempt> Imagine launching an entire 880
[12:52:27] <sommerfeld> it was a small trebuchet.  biggest thing they launched was a cpu/memory board.
[12:52:51] <Tempt> Even those are pretty heavy. Wouldn't want to get one in the head.
[12:53:45] <quasi> I've heard of laptop throwing contests - throwing an 880 would be something else ;)
[12:56:20] <Tempt> heh
[12:56:25] <Tempt> big boom
[12:56:56] <Tempt> sommerfeld: What was the general atmosphere around the 880 development?
[12:57:30] <Doc> general atmosphere?
[12:57:51] <Tempt> I dunno
[12:58:03] <Tempt> Do Sun's hardware guys have fun or not?
[12:58:14] <Tempt> Only seem to hear the tales from the software side of the business
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[12:58:24] <sommerfeld> Tempt: I don't have that much contact with the hardware side of the house either..
[12:58:28] <Doc> the guys that invented the V880 probably didnt - marketing ended up crippling much of the functionality they put in
[12:58:58] <Tempt> Which functionality did marketing cripple?
[12:59:25] <Tempt> I heard rumours that it was originally meant to be domainable and have CPU DR.
[12:59:41] <Doc> domain - no.  DR - yes
[12:59:55] <Tempt> There is theoretical support for DR
[12:59:59] <Tempt> It just doesn't work.
[13:00:11] <Doc> nah.. it was disabled because marketing said no
[13:00:21] <Tempt> Interesting
[13:00:25] <Doc> PCI card DR does actually work, although nobody ever uses it
[13:00:35] <Tempt> Considering I've definately seen Sun marketing crap that touts the great DR features on the 880
[13:00:47] <Tempt> PCI card DR definately works, and I've definately used it quite a lot.
[13:01:10] <Doc> they disabled it as a differientiator to the LW8
[13:01:29] <Tempt> Sad.
[13:01:57] <Tempt> Someone should put the functionality back in now, in these days of 'Open'ness
[13:03:02] <Tempt> Interestingly, Australia ended up with a very large percentage of the world 880 supply
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[13:09:31] <Kamyk_^> sic! i can't find any text about aliases :(
[13:09:51] <Kamyk_^> about referals a found many text but about aliases not :(
[13:11:06] <Tempt> aliases?
[13:11:45] <nico> jmcp_: damn it
[13:12:10] <nico> jmcp_: it explains why the machine was fine during my usual crash tests
[13:12:33] <nico> many dd kicking in hard disks (on a zpool)
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[13:25:05] <Kamyk_^> Tempt: aliases in Sun One Directory Server
[13:26:19] <Tempt> Kamyk_^: *shudder*
[13:29:43] <ideasman42__> does anyone know why I would not get the proper installation screen when booting from the latest OpenSolaris development DVD?
[13:30:06] <ideasman42__> Iv looked at the docs, and they all have a menu with some options..
[13:31:05] <ideasman42__> Im just getting a vanilla grub menu
[13:31:13] <ideasman42__> so I can type in commands etc
[13:31:16] <ideasman42__> but no options
[13:31:51] <ideasman42__> sol-nv-b70b-x86-dvd-iso-a
[13:31:58] <ideasman42__> Thats the ISO Im booting off
[13:32:26] <Pietro_S> ideasman42__: I guess you are trying caiman(new installer), for me it also doesn't work always ... so try the old installer under Community edition of installation dvd grub (second from top)
[13:33:01] <ideasman42__> Pietro_S, Im not getting any menu even
[13:33:06] <ideasman42__> so there are no options
[13:33:07] <ideasman42__> no menu
[13:33:15] <ideasman42__> I just get the grub prompt
[13:33:30] <ideasman42__> GNU Grub version...... etc
[13:33:42] <ideasman42__> [ Minimal BASH-like line editing..... etc]
[13:35:20] <ideasman42__> Pietro_S, this is not my screen, but it looks like this
[13:35:21] <ideasman42__> http://www.skosi.org/~lkundrak/grub2-gdb/bochs.png
[13:35:44] <hali> ideasman42__: did you burn just sol-nv-b70b-x86-dvd-iso-a to a dvd?
[13:36:00] <ideasman42__> hali, Im using the ISO in virtualbox
[13:36:04] <hali> ideasman42__: thats just one part of five to concatinate to get the proper iso
[13:36:18] <ideasman42__> really?
[13:36:25] <ideasman42__> you have to cat them together?
[13:36:30] <hali> yes
[13:36:32] <ideasman42__> heh
[13:36:37] <ideasman42__> thanks ;)
[13:36:41] <hali> or copy /b if you are in windows
[13:36:46] <ideasman42__> no
[13:36:48] <ideasman42__> on linux
[13:36:59] <ideasman42__> by the way, you might be interested in this project
[13:37:08] <ideasman42__> http://peach.blender.org
[13:37:25] <ideasman42__> second post is sun related
[13:37:52] <ideasman42__> We'll be using sun's computers for a renderfarm
[13:37:58] <ideasman42__> (thank you sun!)
[13:39:42] <Tempt> My eight way box is doing a big render job right now, actually.
[13:39:52] <ideasman42__> Tempt, using what?
[13:39:56] <Tempt> Blender.
[13:40:05] <ideasman42__> heh, cool
[13:40:20] <Tempt> Blender has a long way to go with multithreading support though.
[13:40:21] <ideasman42__> been developing blender every day ;) fun job
[13:40:25] <ideasman42__> Definetly!
[13:40:57] <ideasman42__> thats somthing we are aiming to improve for the short movie, though thats not my area
[13:41:21] <Tempt> A lot of the render job runs single-threaded
[13:41:38] <ideasman42__> Tempt, how do you mean?
[13:41:50] <ideasman42__> blenders spesificly?
[13:42:01] <Tempt> certain parts use the eight threads (the actual render), but blender runs a lot of activity single threaded in between
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[13:42:33] <Tempt> I've actually cut this job up into bits and I'm running multiple instances doing different sets of frames in order to get optimal CPU saturation
[13:42:52] <Pietro_S> that's true, but you can (and render managment software does it) cat the scenes and they are asigned to other cpu/nodes
[13:43:01] <ideasman42__> Tempt, yes, threading is a fairly recent addition
[13:43:10] <ideasman42__> and not that good in areas, agree
[13:43:24] <ideasman42__> we'd like to thread the modifier stack and animation system
[13:43:44] <Tempt> More than eight threads would be a winner, too.
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[13:46:17] <ideasman42__> Ah, I have the real solaris boot screen now! ;))
[13:54:09] <smtms> ideasman42__, what did you do?
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[13:56:42] <Pietro_S> isn't there ON76,, already?
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[13:58:14] <sponix> is 20-22MB a decent transfer speed from one IDE ATA100 5400rpm drive to another, both primary master on their own controller ?
[13:58:50] <sponix> I'm using rsync -avP /path/drive1 /path/drive2/
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[14:00:20] <kjetilho> sponix: if it is mostly large files, it's a bit on the slow side
[14:00:55] <sponix> all 700+Meg avi files or 3+G ISOs
[14:01:24] <sponix> I have one other rsync going, that is getting 5MB/s over the network to a different USB drive, hooked to my laptop
[14:01:32] <tomww> cpu-type and are disks a bit older?
[14:02:07] <ideasman42__> smtms, ? what do you mean?
[14:02:10] <sponix> Sempron 3000+ with 1G ddr pc2700
[14:02:19] <sponix> tomww:  so yeah, a bit older
[14:02:22] <Tempt> less than stellar performance
[14:02:31] <sponix> and the Sempron isn't much of a chip to begin with
[14:02:36] <Tempt> No
[14:02:38] <Tempt> sempron fine
[14:02:43] <Tempt> disk performance less than stellar
[14:02:48] <smtms> ideasman42__, what did you do to get the boot menu
[14:02:51] <Tempt> I see better than that from my little Sempron box
[14:02:57] <ideasman42__> smtms, I cat'd all the ISO's together
[14:03:04] <sponix> one partition is ufs (native solaris) other is zfs on a single drive
[14:03:05] <ideasman42__> cat sol-nv-b70b-x86-dvd-iso-b >> sol-nv-b70b-x86-dvd-iso-a
[14:03:10] <ideasman42__> cat sol-nv-b70b-x86-dvd-iso-c >> sol-nv-b70b-x86-dvd-iso-a
[14:03:15] <tomww> maybe the disk-writes are limited to some 25-30MB/sec... for this disk-type?
[14:03:28] <tomww> ah, the ZFS is write or read-side?
[14:03:30] <smtms> ideasman42__, they are one ISO, just in pieces
[14:03:37] <smtms> ideasman42__, it's nice that you figured it out
[14:03:40] <ideasman42__> yes, I didnt realize
[14:03:41] <sponix> Tempt:  hmm, ideas ?
[14:03:46] <Tempt> sponix: IDE is slow?
[14:03:50] <sponix> tomww:  reading ufs, writing zfs
[14:03:55] <kjetilho> for ufs there used to be a kernel tunable which throttled *writes* so that a single process wouldn't saturate it
[14:04:00] <ideasman42__> smtms, just odd that it booted but without a menu
[14:04:04] <kjetilho> but I don't think there is anything like that for *reads*
[14:04:10] <sponix> Tempt:  nforce2 chipset mobo, running off onboard IDE ATM ... could be just that
[14:05:00] <Tempt> I think I've been on SCSI/FCAL/SAS/SATA too long
[14:05:31] <sponix> Oceans.13.avi  620789760  84%   20.76MB/s    0:00:05
[14:05:40] <smtms> ideasman42__, the component of grub that is in the boot area couldn't find the menu which was in the second or third piece, nothing weird
[14:05:43] <kjetilho> sponix: how is the CPU ?  idle?
[14:06:02] <Tempt> I see around 30Mb/sec on my sempron with IDE disks
[14:06:07] <Tempt> so you're not doing too badly
[14:06:08] <sponix> kjetilho:  want uptime stats ?
[14:06:17] <Tempt> given there's the read + write overhead on that transfer
[14:06:21] <kjetilho> no, just percentage idle
[14:06:24] <Tempt> can't complain until you get faster spindles ...
[14:06:40] <tomww> zfs-compression is off and antoher thing is, what does rsync, does it do fsync or similar regularly while writing the large files?
[14:06:53] <sponix> kjetilho:  how do I get percentage idle ?
[14:07:05] <tomww> mpstat  for instance
[14:07:16] <kjetilho> or prstat
[14:07:22] <Kamyk_^> it's somebody know how turn on MultiMaster replication in SunOne Directory Server?
[14:08:00] <sponix> CPU minf mjf xcal  intr ithr  csw icsw migr smtx  srw syscl  usr sys  wt idl
[14:08:00] <sponix>   0   70   3    0  2219 2119 3777 1308    0    2    0  9377   35  32   0  33
[14:08:22] <kjetilho> the first line usually isn't interesting, that's the historic average since boot
[14:08:24] <sponix> tomww:  yeah, I should have taken zfs compression off
[14:08:53] <sponix> and rsync does eat some cpu compared to a regular cp
[14:09:15] <kjetilho> oh, if compression is on I expect your CPU is kept busy
[14:09:33] <sponix> yep... probably part of the issue
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[14:09:52] <sponix> to lazy to turn it off mid-stream though
[14:09:53] <tomww> sponix: you can at any time zfs set compression=off pool/fs
[14:10:04] <tomww> should have effect immediately
[14:10:06] <sponix> if I do, will it kill itself trying to uncompress what it is already playing with ?
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[14:10:44] <kjetilho> no, it will only uncompress next time the block is copied
[14:11:37] <sponix> kjetilho:  dummie that down a bit please
[14:12:14] <sponix> well, after these files are on, I'm going to be ripping this drive out, and putting 3 x 500G drives into play (to start with for my pool)
[14:13:04] <sponix> can I raidz just 3 drives, and then add drive 4, 5, and possibly 6 later on to the same pool without data loss ?
[14:13:57] <kjetilho> you can add more drives to a pool, but not to the raidz
[14:14:14] <kjetilho> so you need to make another raidz of the three drives
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[14:18:39] <sponix> I have 3 pci IDE controller cards, each with 2 channels... Debating if I should drop 5 or 6 drives in
[14:19:40] <tomww> kjetilho: I was speaking about next written blocks, so his write-rate should increase immediately bcs zfs stops looking at the data if it is complessable bettern than e.g. 10%
[14:20:17] <sponix> I turned the compression off, but it didn't seem to effect it much
[14:20:41] <sponix> next file is in rsync, should I ctrl+c the rsync, and restart it -- see if it needs that ?
[14:20:51] <kjetilho> sponix: won't make a difference
[14:23:17] <sommerfeld> so last I checked, rsync ran multiple processes even locally
[14:23:40] <sommerfeld> so it goes from fs to process 1 to process 2 over a pipe and then to the destination fs
[14:24:02] <sommerfeld> so i would not expect raw disk speed with rsync
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[14:33:20] <sponix> never try to split a seagate ST3000CB external USB drive open
[14:33:24] <sponix> the case is a nightmare
[14:34:42] <sponix> wow, thats crazy, the metal inside is so flimsy I can bend it with one finger, but the plastic around it is tougher than steel
[14:36:59] <sponix> If I bend my $75 gerber on this thing Seagate owes me !
[14:38:26] <Doc> Linux triton 2.4.32-grsec+f6b+gr217+nfs+a32+fuse23+tg+++opt+c8+gr2b-v6.194 #1 SMP Tue Jun 6 15:52:09 PDT 2006 i686 GNU/Linux
[14:38:31] <sommerfeld> apple-style design-to-prevent-servicability?
[14:38:39] <Doc> have you ever seen such a warped uname -a output in your life?
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[14:40:14] <sponix> sommerfeld:  this thing is nuts, I'm still at it from every angle, only got one side to break free so far
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[14:43:00] <sponix> I'm going to go check and see if anyone has a crow-bar
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[14:44:35] <sponix> sommerfeld:  SXDE b70 is what I have right now, anything significant in SXCE b75 ? raidz box, probably headless 98% of the time
[14:45:07] <sommerfeld> biggest thing new in b75 is xVM (virtualization system formerly known as xen)
[14:45:53] <sponix> how easy is that to manage, is it a setup like vmware or virtualbox... or still breaking out vi and hacking config like xen was ?
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[14:47:23] <tomww> don't know if the virtualisation manager know from the linux-side works with xVM...
[14:47:35] <sommerfeld> i managed to get a domain installed without using a text editor (not counting shell history) using virt-install
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[14:50:06] <sponix> hmm, its 3+ weeks worth of download, but I might give that a shot
[14:50:16] <sponix> virt-install text based... or needs X ?
[14:51:20] <Rivelli> whats the recommended memory post install in a gnome enviorment?
[14:51:27] <BadKarma> I am only wondering ...  211686 drwx------   3 root     root         512 Oct 24 23:25 .sun  <-- what is this 2nd column that has a value of 3 in this example?
[14:51:42] <BadKarma> number of links to that file/dir/inode?
[14:51:49] <tsoome> link count
[14:51:56] <BadKarma> so I quite dont get it
[14:51:58] <BadKarma> I ran find / -mount -inum 211686 -ls
[14:52:09] <BadKarma> and it returns only that one nothing else
[14:52:36] <BadKarma> am I missing anything from the picture?
[14:52:41] <tsoome> every directory does have . and .. in subdirs
[14:53:11] <sommerfeld> sponix: text based.
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[14:54:33] <BadKarma> tsoome: oh.. thats explains it, thanks :)
[14:54:42] <tsoome> yw
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[14:55:17] <BadKarma> how about  5919 drwxr-xr-x   4 root     sys          512 Oct 24 22:57 platform <- that
[14:55:48] <tsoome> same story, check subdirs
[14:55:53] <BadKarma> there are 2
[14:56:14] <BadKarma> oh!
[14:56:21] <tsoome> well, platform dir itself, . and 2x ..
[14:56:27] <BadKarma> I missed the pkcs11_softtoken .. in .sunw
[14:56:51] <BadKarma> got it now
[14:56:53] <BadKarma> thanks
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[15:00:04] <BadKarma> tsoome: so basically every subdirectory + .. and . are counted as links which makes pretty much sense
[15:00:26] <ceri> No, the .. in every subdirectory is counted as a link
[15:00:54] <ceri> s/counted as//
[15:01:40] <BadKarma> oh yeah
[15:02:25] <BadKarma> so if there are 4 subdirs it would be 5 cuz parent .. + 4x .. (subdirs)
[15:03:10] <ceri> mmm, 6, but I think you get it
[15:03:29] <BadKarma> 6?
[15:03:37] <tsoome> use find with -inum option or whatever it was called
[15:04:11] <ceri> 4 x .. in the subdirectories + 1 x . in the directory + 1 x the "real" name in the parent directory
[15:04:23] <BadKarma> ah!
[15:04:35] <BadKarma> absolutely
[15:04:51] <BadKarma> thanks again
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[17:03:44] <Pietro_S> how about studio12 and compiling ON? is it a bit stable?
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[17:49:48] <jmcp_> Pietro_S: not a good idea right now, still a few issues - stick with ss11 for the moment
[17:54:18] <jamesd> sun eats there own dog food, not always the freshest kibbles and bits....
[17:55:12] <jmcp_> that's certainly one way of expressing it :)
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[17:55:45] <jteo> true.
[17:55:50] <quasi> seems like certain people would rather have gcc support
[17:56:02] <jteo> political reasons perhaps.
[17:56:22] <Tempt> insert my standard 'gcc be damned' speech here
[17:57:39] * quasi has been reading advocacy discuss lately - the indiana as _THE_ opensolaris distro push from sun marketing does smell a bit like politics
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[17:59:09] <jamesd> if we listen to sun marketing, we would think that the  u24 is  2 bits better (4) better than the u20 ...
[17:59:31] <jmcp_> I thought we'd managed to get marketing edjimacated on that sort of thing
[18:00:31] <quasi> jmcp_: ain't going to happen without resorting to violence ;)
[18:00:46] <jamesd> of course if we listen to marketing.. the u24 is  6 less than the wonderfully powerful  7 year old ultra30
[18:01:12] <quasi> ;)
[18:01:27] <jteo> remember, marketing, like quantum physics, operates by a different set of laws.
[18:02:01] <Tempt> marketing uncertainty principle
[18:02:17] <jamesd> so smaller number == more powerful?  damm i can't wait to get a uber powerful ultra 1 ;-)
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[18:03:11] <Tempt> I'll kick 'em all with an Ultra-450
[18:03:49] <jamesd> Tempt, besure to get the massive  4GB drives it shipped with...
[18:03:55] <sparcdr> oh no
[18:04:00] <sparcdr> not you guys
[18:04:09] <quasi> I just saw netbeans going dual license
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[18:04:19] <quasi> ...
[18:04:20] <jteo> eh?
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[18:04:51] <Teknomancer> solaris build 75's nice... finally updated gnome with pidgin :)
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[18:05:07] <sparcdr> weird
[18:05:08] <quasi> netbeans is now cddl and gpl
[18:05:13] <sparcdr> dumb
[18:05:14] <Tempt> jamesd: I'm surprised they haven't released an Ultra-9000
[18:05:19] <Tempt> and yes
[18:05:20] <Tempt> dumb.
[18:05:29] <sparcdr> gpl isnt the end all be all, it totally doesnt work for companies
[18:05:42] <Tempt> Should have kept it CDDL only, keep a consistant, clear, sane licensing principle
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[18:05:46] <sparcdr> sun's idea is to just make extensions on top of open software
[18:06:01] <sparcdr> Tempt, afraid they're thinking of making opensolaris gplv3
[18:06:04] <Tempt> Doesn't really help Sun's cause of CDDL acceptance to start mixing GPL poison into their own well
[18:06:09] <quasi> Tempt: given the gpl in java land, guess what's next
[18:06:10] <sparcdr> which so far has driven many to bsd ironically
[18:06:12] <jamesd> Tempt, they chose to call it blade 9000...  its not small, sharp, or shiny tool.
[18:06:13] <sparcdr> it's poison
[18:06:25] <sparcdr> glasspath exception saves their butt
[18:06:28] <Tempt> sparcdr: They have the OpenSolaris GPL comment periodically but that's it. Lip service only.
[18:06:31] <sparcdr> but you cant do that for something you dont own
[18:06:46] <sparcdr> they dont own all of opensolaris, even after explunging thousands of lines
[18:07:01] <Tempt> There is a saviour for the downfall of Solaris that would follow a move to the GPL
[18:07:02] <sparcdr> it wont happen, it's on their backburner, but im disgusted they even have it there
[18:07:05] <sparcdr> it's totally useless
[18:07:15] <jmcp_> which is the majormajor reason why there can't be a GPLvX version of OpenSolaris
[18:07:31] <sparcdr> it's called cross-contamination and reverse ip theft from non-protected communities
[18:08:06] <Shiv_1> My guess is, going gpl with OpenSolaris is likely to hurt sun and hence is unlikely to happen.
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[18:08:28] <sparcdr> they have to abstract zfs with fuse, it's totally useless, slow, and of course as the tradition goes, partially implemented with no documentation.  linux/gpl land has got to have worse documentation than any entity on the planet
[18:08:52] <Shiv_1> But that is not the case with Netbeans. If it helps wider acceptance, they can make a dent into Eclipse's dominance.
[18:09:00] <sparcdr> eclipse is gpl
[18:09:08] <Tempt> Moving OpenSolaris to GPL would only benifit ONE group out there - those who want to strip code from Solaris for Linux
[18:09:11] <sparcdr> the gpl poison infected java and is hooked on like a cobra
[18:09:12] <Tempt> nobody else would win.
[18:09:19] <sparcdr> obviously
[18:09:26] <sparcdr> the only kickass ide that's commercial is IDEA
[18:09:26] <Teknomancer> sun calls gnome Java Desktop environment
[18:09:29] <Teknomancer> :)
[18:09:30] <sparcdr> which isn't on Solaris
[18:09:31] <Tempt> So Sun won't throw their most valuable software away
[18:09:49] <jteo> they nearly did once.
[18:09:50] <sparcdr> heh, they have a right to dual license netbeans
[18:09:56] <jteo> the whole x86 solaris on the back burner thing.
[18:09:57] * sparcdr shrugs
[18:10:07] <smtms> Eclipse is not GPL, it's Eclipse Public License, a version of Common Public License
[18:10:12] <sparcdr> jteo, i was discussing that, they seemed stagnant because of that
[18:10:25] <smtms> SWT, the library that Eclipse uses instead of Swing is LGPL
[18:10:28] <sparcdr> smtms, still liberal GIVE BACK OR DIE?
[18:10:45] <Shiv_1> Making netbeans dual license means possibilities for wider acceptance.
[18:11:09] <Shiv_1> If more ppl are comfortable with the developement platform, the developers can feel at home when they try developing on Solaris.
[18:11:12] <Tempt> All the linux weenies need to do is change their license to something like the BSD and they can enjoy ZFS too.
[18:11:28] <smtms> sparcdr, dunno, I'm not an expert on licensing
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[18:11:59] <Shiv_1> Currently a competent java developer on Linux/Windows would feel handicapped on Solaris due to lack of the right IDEs that he is comfortable with.
[18:12:14] <cmihai> Shiv_1, bull
[18:12:23] <jteo> wtf does the license of the OSS got to do with its features?
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[18:12:34] <cmihai> Eclipse, NetBeans, JDeveloper all work just fine. Emacs and all those are there too. Plus, you can DTrace Java.
[18:12:40] <Teknomancer> real devs don't rely on IDEs ;)
[18:12:49] <Symmetria> errr
[18:12:52] <Symmetria> guys, quick question
[18:12:58] <jteo> let's face the harsh truth: most people don't give a flying fsck about the license of their IDE.
[18:13:01] <Symmetria> something generated thousands of "defunct" processes on my machine
[18:13:06] <Symmetria> there are like, 24 thousand zombie processes
[18:13:11] <cmihai> Symmetria, reap them
[18:13:12] <Tempt> preap
[18:13:15] <Tempt> next question?
[18:13:18] <cmihai> :-)
[18:13:29] <cmihai> ptree if you need to find out why
[18:13:30] <Tempt> either that or fire up a stack of 'brains' processes
[18:13:32] <Tempt> to feed them
[18:13:45] <Symmetria> preap: Failed to reap 52: the only non-defunct ancestor is 'init'
[18:13:56] <cmihai> That's not a zombie
[18:13:57] <cmihai> that's an orphan.
[18:14:02] <Symmetria> and when I try and reboot it it says it cant idle init
[18:14:05] <Tempt> adopt it
[18:14:06] <cmihai> An orphan has no parent and has been allocated to init (1)
[18:14:11] <cmihai> Tempt, init already did.
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[18:14:20] <Shiv_1> Will netbeans gain in the form of being able to link/use GPL code in the form of plugins, integrating with other tools,...
[18:14:21] <cmihai> init should automagically reap it
[18:14:22] <Tempt> init isn't a loving parent
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[18:14:38] <Teknomancer> anyone knows where XVM-Gate (solaris XVM) can be seen?
[18:14:46] <Symmetria> heh so errr, how do I idle init so I can just bounce the thing
[18:14:49] <Teknomancer> need the URL
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[18:15:34] <cmihai> Symmetria, No idea, you could try to pkill -HUP it :P
[18:15:35] <Tempt> There seems to be this magical idea that as soon as something is made GPL
[18:15:42] <Tempt> it suddenly gets 100000 developers working their guts out
[18:15:46] <cmihai> Symmetria, though that may also kill your machine hehe
[18:15:56] <cmihai> I only do this on BSD to re-read terminals (getty).
[18:16:14] <Symmetria> cmihai whats the likelihood of it killing my machine percentage wise :p its a 30 mile drive if it does
[18:16:22] <Symmetria> though then again the machine is pretty fucked as it is
[18:16:23] <Symmetria> :p
[18:16:26] <cmihai> I have no idea what it does.
[18:16:31] <cmihai> kill -HUP 1 and see :P
[18:16:39] <cmihai> Nah, the machine is fine.
[18:16:46] <cmihai> Orphans and zombies don't use any resources.
[18:16:51] <cmihai> Well, apart from PIDs
[18:17:05] <Symmetria> heh cmihai err well why was it claiming it couldnt fork shit then
[18:17:14] <Shiv_1> Anyone following up the TM related discussion @ opensolaris. What do guys here think about it?
[18:17:18] <cmihai> Symmetria, process limits.
[18:17:19] <Symmetria> (and kill -HUP 1 didnt do anything btw)
[18:17:20] <cmihai> You've hit them.
[18:17:33] <cmihai> you can change that...
[18:17:46] <Tempt> the default is 30,000 processes
[18:17:51] <Symmetria> ok, how do I double that
[18:17:52] <Symmetria> :p
[18:17:54] <cmihai> Symmetria, with zombies you can preap or restart their parent.
[18:17:54] <Symmetria> heh
[18:18:05] <cmihai> But defunct oprhans don't have parents. They have init...
[18:18:14] <cmihai> Symmetria, read the kernel tuning guide on docs.sun.com :P
[18:18:35] <Tempt> set v.v_proc in /etc/system
[18:18:40] <Tempt> +reboot
[18:18:52] <cmihai> Tempt, I think you can do this with mdb on the fly.
[18:19:45] <Symmetria> Tempt heh, I cant reboot right now :p *laugh*
[18:20:01] <Symmetria> could not get pid for init
[18:20:02] <Symmetria> haha
[18:20:07] <Symmetria> gawd dammit
[18:20:10] <cmihai> Symmetria, you're forkbombed
[18:20:22] <cmihai> What cause these orphans and zombies btw?
[18:20:23] <cmihai> What process?
[18:20:40] <Symmetria> cmihai I wish I knew
[18:20:43] <cmihai> (you need to kill some processes so you can start a new one)
[18:20:47] <cmihai> Symmetria, I told you to use ptree :P
[18:20:55] <Symmetria> heh I did :p its sitting waiting
[18:21:00] <Symmetria> and has been for a while
[18:21:13] <cmihai> Symmetria, here, read this: http://ch.sun.com/sunnews/newsletter/bulletin/2006/bulletin2.html
[18:21:24] <cmihai> "Can you kill a defunct process ???"
[18:22:57] <cmihai> Symmetria, but just wait.
[18:23:22] <cmihai> If they're orphans (well, children of init), init, as Tempt put it, isn't a very loving parent. It will automagically reap his children.
[18:23:49] <Symmetria> heh cmihai been like this for an hour :(
[18:23:52] <cmihai> So wait a few minutes, run ptree, identify the generator, restart it, then preap and then you should be fine.
[18:24:11] <cmihai> Can you run ptree?
[18:24:17] <Symmetria> *nod* Im running ptree at the moment, its sitting there
[18:24:21] <cmihai> noo
[18:24:24] <cmihai> not like that
[18:24:29] <cmihai> ptree PIDOFSOMEZOMBIE
[18:24:33] <Symmetria> 52    <defunct>
[18:24:34] <Tempt> if someone gave him the syntax for changing v.v_proc with mdb, he might get enough spare PIDs to run stuff
[18:24:37] <cmihai> Not defunct, zombie.
[18:24:38] <Tempt> (I'm having a mental blank)
[18:24:50] <cmihai> Tempt, it's in the docs.sun.com kernel tuning guide.
[18:25:51] <cmihai> http://docs.sun.com/app/docs/doc/817-0404
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[18:26:53] <PerterB> "kill -CHLD 1" and see if that kickstarts init into reaping again (possibly a long shot, it could just be that the zombies are being generated too fast)
[18:27:13] <cmihai> That's my guess/
[18:27:16] <cmihai> Since she can now fork
[18:27:20] <Symmetria> yeah I can fork
[18:27:26] <cmihai> Symmetria, ps
[18:27:27] <cmihai> look for a Z
[18:27:31] <cmihai> that means Zombie
[18:27:36] <cmihai> not defunct orphans, zombies
[18:27:43] <Symmetria>     root  8806  8459   0 18:28:39 pts/1       0:00 grep Z
[18:27:44] <cmihai> ptree those to get the zombie generator.
[18:27:49] <Symmetria> zero
[18:27:49] <cmihai> Crap :-)
[18:28:00] <cmihai> preap must've got the,
[18:28:05] <cmihai> ps -ef | wc -l
[18:28:06] <cmihai> monitor that
[18:28:09] <cmihai> it could be going down
[18:28:10] <cmihai> ;-)
[18:28:25] <Symmetria> nah, its sitting stable at 24014 :p
[18:28:26] <Symmetria> haha
[18:28:47] <Symmetria> and it still refuses to reboot :p
[18:28:48] <cmihai> heh
[18:28:53] <cmihai> it went down from 30000 :P
[18:28:59] <PerterB> uh, is it possible you're mixing up BSD and SysV ps, cmihai? BSD marks them with a Z, sysv says <defunct>
[18:29:02] <Symmetria> thats because I shut down all the zones :p
[18:29:11] <cmihai> PerterB, no, so does AIX
[18:29:16] <cmihai> So I could mix it with AIX :P
[18:29:25] <PerterB> :)
[18:29:28] <cmihai> PerterB, AIX says defunct
[18:29:32] <cmihai> and a Z if it's a zombie
[18:29:35] <Symmetria> heh
[18:29:38] <cmihai> no Z if it's an orphan.
[18:29:39] <Symmetria> well...
[18:29:40] <Symmetria> this is rather interesting
[18:29:41] <Symmetria>     root     1     0   0        - ?           4:12 <defunct>
[18:29:43] <cmihai> There is a BIG difference :-)
[18:29:50] <Tempt> ummn
[18:29:52] <Symmetria> since it claims init is defunct
[18:29:55] <Tempt> how did you do that to init?
[18:30:00] <Symmetria> IT did that
[18:30:00] <cmihai> 0_o
[18:30:01] <RealWickedWicky> woa
[18:30:04] <Symmetria> I didnt do anything
[18:30:04] <RealWickedWicky> you killed INIT!
[18:30:11] <RealWickedWicky> you bastard!
[18:30:16] <cmihai> How the hell did you manage that Symmetria :D
[18:30:30] * Symmetria tries to preap that
[18:30:34] <PerterB> what difference? both terms refer to a process that has exitted and had amost of its resources release but has not been wait()'d for...
[18:30:35] <cmihai> heh
[18:30:40] <Symmetria> preap: cannot examine 0: system process
[18:30:43] <cmihai> duh
[18:30:50] <Tempt>  well
[18:30:50] <cmihai> init something
[18:30:51] <cmihai> type that
[18:30:58] <Tempt> with no init, nothing is going to be a-reapin'
[18:30:58] <cmihai> Just start some init
[18:31:04] <Symmetria> could not get pid for init
[18:31:06] <Tempt> I'd say
[18:31:09] <Tempt> he's doomed
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[18:31:15] <Tempt> could try 'reboot'
[18:31:15] <cmihai> Symmetria, hm....
[18:31:19] <cmihai> NO
[18:31:22] <cmihai> kill 1
[18:31:23] <cmihai> yeah
[18:31:27] <cmihai> could not get pid for init
[18:31:32] <cmihai> because init is zombified
[18:31:35] <cmihai> but still holding the init
[18:31:36] <Tempt> otherwise break-sync-raise a case and send a dump in
[18:31:37] <cmihai> pid 1
[18:31:42] <RealWickedWicky> as Kate Beckinsale would say when she finds out about the werewolf's new weapon: "We have a serious problem"
[18:31:43] <cmihai> kill or kill -9 1
[18:31:46] <cmihai> :-)
[18:31:49] <RealWickedWicky> *including the cute accent*
[18:31:50] <RealWickedWicky> NO!
[18:31:53] <cmihai> and THAN init 6
[18:31:57] <Symmetria> :p
[18:31:58] <PerterB> "that can't happeb" :) the system should panic if init tries to exit
[18:32:02] <cmihai> well, that was fun.
[18:32:02] <PerterB> *happen
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[18:32:19] <Tempt> Symmetria: try reboot
[18:32:23] * Symmetria phones his lackie and tells him to go to the fucking machine and hard reboot it
[18:32:29] <Symmetria> reboot: can't idle init
[18:32:29] <RealWickedWicky> I tried kill -9 -1 ones, as root, on a remote box, you dont want that
[18:32:39] <cmihai> killall
[18:32:41] <cmihai> try that
[18:32:43] <RealWickedWicky> NO!
[18:32:58] <RealWickedWicky> he's remote, from what I can see what he's typing
[18:33:05] <Tempt> well
[18:33:06] <Tempt> console time
[18:33:08] <Tempt> break
[18:33:09] <Tempt> sync
[18:33:12] <Tempt> :)
[18:33:15] <RealWickedWicky> yea
[18:33:22] <RealWickedWicky> you definately need console
[18:33:26] <Symmetria> heh sending my lackie out to the console
[18:33:33] <RealWickedWicky> I think I saw this happening ones, when the root disk was not mirrored and died
[18:33:35] <cmihai> Symmetria, does "killall" kill it?
[18:33:38] <jteo> poor lackey.
[18:33:48] <cmihai> Symmetria, you could try to safely shutdown all other services first...
[18:33:51] <cmihai> and sync :-)
[18:34:40] <cmihai> <terr_> cmihai:  blows?  is this good or bad?
[18:34:45] <cmihai> ;-).
[18:34:46] <Symmetria> heh ok Im gonna drive out there and reboot it :p
[18:35:19] <PerterB> even with init borked, you could probably reboot it remotely with uadmin
[18:35:38] <PerterB> or force it to panic
[18:35:41] <cmihai> That's not hard
[18:35:45] <cmihai> dd junk to kmem :P
[18:35:46] <Symmetria> heh
[18:35:57] <Symmetria> PerterB wait whats the best way to do that
[18:35:58] <Symmetria> ;p
[18:36:00] <Symmetria> I will try that first
[18:36:03] <Symmetria> before driving 30 miles
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[18:36:35] <PerterB> I never remember the numbers for uadmin... "uadmin 2 0" I think
[18:36:55] <Symmetria> heh well, I typed that and whatever it is killed my connection to the machien instantly
[18:36:56] <Symmetria> :p
[18:37:02] <Symmetria> so now I wait 15 minutes and see if it comes back
[18:37:11] <Symmetria> well, probably 10
[18:38:03] <PerterB> to panic it: echo "exit/W 0" | mdb -kw is usually pretty quick ;)
[18:39:14] <Symmetria> heh well, if the uadmin command doesnt cause it to reboot Im DEFINATELY going out there because I cant ping it for shit since I typed that, I aint getting ANYTHINg outta it
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[18:39:52] <PerterB> oops... http://sysunconfig.net/unixtips/uadmin.txt told you I couldn't remember
[18:40:04] <PerterB> I see a car journey in your near future
[18:40:32] <Symmetria> why :p what does 2 0 do
[18:40:40] <RealWickedWicky> with your luck auto-boot? = false
[18:40:45] <PerterB> "sync the filesystems and drops system to ok prompt"
[18:40:52] <Symmetria> errr what will that do on an x86
[18:40:53] <Symmetria> :p
[18:40:58] <RealWickedWicky> AHAH
[18:41:06] <PerterB> oh, god knows
[18:41:13] <RealWickedWicky> "Press any key to reboot"
[18:41:17] <PerterB> likely
[18:41:30] <RealWickedWicky> I hope you have good music in the car
[18:41:41] <cmihai> RealWickedWicky, that's always fun.
[18:41:49] <Tempt> Doesn't look like you can change v.v_proc with mdb
[18:41:50] <cmihai> I remember a OpenBSD bloke who typed "halt" on his remote box :-)
[18:41:53] <Tempt> must require a reboot, sadly.
[18:41:56] <Symmetria> heh will take the merc and hope there are no cops on the highway
[18:42:04] <cmihai> "System halted. Press any key to reboot" :-).
[18:42:04] <Symmetria> take me 20 minutes to get there :p
[18:42:49] <PerterB> I've typoed init 5 instead of init 6 when working remotely...
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[18:43:34] <Tempt> PerterB: Oh, man, I've seen that done before.
[18:44:08] <PerterB> and no matter how many times you type init 6 after, it still powers off :)\
[18:44:54] <Tempt> if you type reboot
[18:44:57] <RealWickedWicky> lovely is when linux ppl go to solaris
[18:44:58] <Tempt> it'll save your arse
[18:45:04] <RealWickedWicky> init 5 in linux is 'go graphical'
[18:45:05] <Tempt> RealWickedWicky: and type killall -9?
[18:45:12] <Tempt> RealWickedWicky: aaah, that's funny.
[18:45:19] <RealWickedWicky> killall apache
[18:45:20] <RealWickedWicky> yea
[18:45:22] <RealWickedWicky> things like that
[18:45:24] <RealWickedWicky> *poof*
[18:45:28] <PerterB> Tempt: yeah, but I didn't think of that at the time
[18:45:46] <cmihai> OOoh, big surprise, killall kills all...
[18:46:22] <Symmetria> k see you guys in a bit :p heh, *drives out to reboot machine*
[18:46:46] <cmihai> You need yourself a professional button poker.
[18:46:56] <PerterB> and a console server
[18:46:59] <Tempt> Symmetria: Get site security to do it for you?
[18:47:26] <cmihai> Heh, yeah, having LOM for critical servers is a blessing :-).
[18:48:23] <delewis> heh, we had a print server in Taiwan go down today that was a Sun Blade 150, so of course, no LOM, but nobody from that office called, so it wasn't an issue. :-)
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[18:49:14] <cmihai> delewis, it's even cooler if you have managed UPS
[18:49:14] <cmihai> :-)
[18:49:19] <cmihai> You can turn out power for all your servers lol
[18:49:33] <cmihai> Or the whole building :P
[18:49:43] <Tempt> Cyclades make a nice IP PDU
[18:50:21] <RealWickedWicky> yes
[18:50:50] <RealWickedWicky> we had cyclades alterpath/ACS managers/KVM managers/Power managers
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[18:51:00] <RealWickedWicky> when you configure them properly they really can make your life easy
[18:51:09] <RealWickedWicky> or, get an ILO board for an x86
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[18:51:43] <delewis> apparently, these bundle of Blade 150s aren't in secure locations, so occasionally, someone will decide to do some office re-decorating and move it.
[18:52:00] <RealWickedWicky> people like that should be moved too
[18:52:03] <RealWickedWicky> to the after life
[18:52:32] <delewis> well, whoever decided to (a) use Blade 150s for print servers and (b) not put them in secure locations should be moved. :-)
[18:52:35] <RealWickedWicky> we had a cleaning lady ones, who found the machine under my desk a bitch cause she couldnt vacuum clean there, so she moved it away
[18:52:48] <RealWickedWicky> once
[18:52:51] <RealWickedWicky> whatever
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[18:53:50] <cmihai> Just lock your damn office at night.
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[18:55:10] <g4lt-mordant> yes, taking a fune machine such as the SB150 and making it do tasks that could be handled by a peecee is just wrong
[18:55:10] <RealWickedWicky> we have people starting at 7am
[18:55:14] <RealWickedWicky> cleaning ppl start at 8
[18:55:17] <jl> hi everybody!
[18:55:22] <RealWickedWicky> hi just you
[18:55:38] <g4lt-mordant> RealWickedWicky, and the cleaners manage to move things and live?
[18:55:47] <Tempt> fune
[18:55:52] <Tempt> a good word for the sb150
[18:56:19] <delewis> g4lt-mordant: well, these print servers were apparently put into producton about 5 or 6 years ago. At that point we weren't into using peecees for production systems, no matter what they did.
[18:56:27] <Tempt> I hereby define 'fune' as meaning "promising much, delivering a little less, providing entertainment salted with frustration"
[18:56:30] <delewis> nowadays, systems like that would be peecees running Linux or such.
[18:56:46] <jl> i'm plannig to install sxce on my laptop but i readed somewhere that my wireless connection will not work, how can i enable that?
[18:57:10] <g4lt-mordant> jl what adapter do you have?
[18:57:34] <jl> its an intel pro/wireless 2200
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[18:57:40] <cmihai> jl, use dladm
[18:57:46] <cmihai> Check the HCL for support.
[18:58:13] <g4lt-mordant> I think the intel card is, well, supported
[18:58:58] <jl> i did my wireless card its supported that's not a problem, what i'm talking about is that sxce not sxde will not support wireless connection
[18:59:00] <Tempt> hmmm
[18:59:00] <Tempt>    65546        maximum number of processes (v.v_proc)
[18:59:05] <Tempt> surely can be tuned higher than that ...
[18:59:21] <cmihai> Tempt, it can.
[18:59:26] <delewis> it can. There's a kernel tunable to set that value.
[18:59:40] <delewis> (assuming this is Solaris)
[18:59:56] <cmihai> Tempt, see that kernel tuning guide. It's covered.
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[19:00:39] <cmihai> Use a forkbomb to test ;P
[19:00:42] <jl> sxce and sxde has different conf. for wireless?
[19:00:45] <cmihai> for(;;) fork(); hehe
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[19:00:55] <Tempt> hmm, it tuned up from 30k to 65546, but the guide says it should be tunable to 999,999
[19:01:08] <cmihai> Yep.
[19:01:19] <Tempt> last time I forkbombed a machine around here it got a loadavg of 8000+
[19:01:36] <Tempt> (and was recoverable)
[19:02:15] <cmihai> Heh, SPARC machines can sure take a load..
[19:02:18] <cmihai> But 8000?
[19:02:21] <cmihai> How many CPU?
[19:02:29] <Tempt> 8
[19:03:23] <cmihai> That's 1000 forks waiting on each CPU
[19:03:23] <tomww> so 7992 processes in the runqueue :-)
[19:03:26] <cmihai> holy shit
[19:03:56] <cmihai> Tops I've got was about 600 on an Oracle production machine :P
[19:04:01] <Tempt> delewis: Ebay guy is chasing down a shipping quote on that pseries
[19:04:13] <delewis> Tempt: need my address info?
[19:04:51] <Tempt> delewis: He's going to get me a direct to .au quote first, so we'll see how we go
[19:05:03] <delewis> won't be pretty. :-)
[19:05:06] <cmihai> Solaris has a pretty odd way of calculating the maximum number of processes.
[19:05:08] <Tempt> delewis: If his quote is reasonable, I'll ship direct to avoid having to pay two lots of shipping
[19:05:15] <delewis> makes sense.
[19:05:21] <cmihai> maxpid, pidmax, max_nprocs, maxusers... odd stuff.
[19:05:37] <Tempt> delewis: I'm willing to pay up to $1k for the whole lot, so that gives a lot of shipping leeway :)
[19:05:53] <delewis> Tempt: assuming the bid doesn't higher than $250.
[19:05:56] <cmihai> maximum number of processes being 10 + 16 * maxusers... yeah, makes sense lol
[19:05:59] <delewis> I suspect it will.
[19:06:14] <delewis> the market for POWER4s on eBay tends to be pretty decent.
[19:06:39] <Tempt> I've set maxusers to 4096 already
[19:06:42] <Tempt> that being the max
[19:06:45] <Tempt> and pidmax to 999999
[19:06:58] <delewis> if this paycheck wasn't already allocated and I didn't know you were interested in it, I'd go up to at least $1-$1.5k on it.
[19:06:59] <jl> just another question 1 month ago i "installed" sxce in a dual boot conf with windows xp and the installation was 4-5 hours, is it normal? even worse after restarting the pc i choose to startup solaris from the grub menu and yes windows was there too, but when solaris ask me for a cd #6 or something like that?
[19:07:06] <delewis> given I paid about $1k for my POWER3 box.
[19:07:21] <Tempt> delewis: I get the feeling there may be some last minute bidding in there
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[19:07:31] <delewis> but alas, I don't have any disposable income until the next paycheck. :-(
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[19:07:44] <delewis> and I'll probably use that to buy an Itanium for HP-UX.
[19:07:51] <Tempt> delewis: Well, I can give you an account on the box when if I get it :)
[19:07:55] <delewis> cool.
[19:08:00] <e^ipi> delewis: and port solaris to it
[19:08:12] <Tempt> Screw Solaris
[19:08:15] <Tempt> I want to play with AIX 6.1
[19:08:30] <e^ipi> I meant port solaris to the itanium
[19:08:52] <Tempt> No, delewis needs to spend time with HP-UX
[19:09:03] <delewis> the job calls for it, unfortunately.
[19:09:05] <Tempt> You can't objectively hate something without experience
[19:09:22] <Tempt> I have a PA-RISC machine here.
[19:09:23] <jl> somebody?
[19:09:34] <cmihai> Tempt, 16x4096 -> yeah, 65536 is the maximum number of processes that can run on Solaris.
[19:09:37] <delewis> all of our logistics systems run Solaris, but all of the financial side (which our group now supports) runs HP-UX. :-/
[19:10:16] <delewis> they seem to be replacing those systems with peecees running Linux as they come out of production.. we just took a bundle of L2000s (HP-PA systems) out of production and replaced them Compaq DL-somethings.
[19:10:27] <Tempt> I've got an rp2430 in the rack here. Hasn't been powered up in aaages.
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[19:10:34] <delewis> Tempt: nice box.
[19:10:43] <Tempt> small and compact, yes.
[19:10:44] <cmihai> I've got a bunch of HP9000's here. Nice machines.
[19:10:45] <delewis> I'm looking at something in the rx5xxx class.
[19:10:46] <Tempt> pretty insides too
[19:10:47] <delewis> or an L2000.
[19:10:52] <cmihai> delewis, rp5440 maybe?
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[19:10:54] <delewis> probably drop $1-$2k.
[19:11:11] <Tempt> I should probably return this machine to it's owner
[19:11:19] <delewis> cmihai: I've looked at that and its Itanium-equivalent.
[19:11:45] <Tempt> It isn't really being loved sitting in the bottom of a rack covered in junk.
[19:11:47] <delewis> (oh, and if anybody has any spare HP 9000 gear, feel free to send it my way :-)
[19:12:11] <cmihai> Don't bother with rp5430 or rp5470, they're huge noisy beasts
[19:12:12] <Tempt> delewis: I can ask the owner if they want to give it away, and if they do I could send it to you if you're really keen
[19:12:28] <delewis> Tempt: I suspect shipping would be pretty outrageous.
[19:12:37] <delewis> cmihai: louder than an E4500+A5200?
[19:12:37] <Tempt> delewis: Depends
[19:12:44] <cmihai> heh, yeah
[19:12:48] <cmihai> Bigger too
[19:12:51] <Tempt> delewis: Would you be willing to pay $500 shipping for an rp2430?
[19:12:52] <cmihai> delewis, look for a rp3440.
[19:12:53] <delewis> despite working for FedEx, I don't actually get shipping discounts, unfortunately. :-)
[19:12:59] <delewis> Tempt: absolutely.
[19:13:08] <cmihai> The rp3440 is a 4-way 2U system
[19:13:13] <cmihai> nice and quiet too
[19:13:20] <Tempt> Years ago, when they were actually worth money, I had an Ultra-2 shipped by Fedex  from the US to Australia
[19:13:26] <Tempt> it cost $US200
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[19:13:31] <delewis> that'd fall within my desired specs. I was definitely wanting at least a 4-way system with 4GB of memory or so.
[19:13:40] <cmihai> Easy
[19:13:42] <cmihai> 900Mhz too
[19:13:46] <delewis> sweet.
[19:13:51] <cmihai> I've got a rp3440 and a rp5470
[19:14:04] <cmihai> And the 3440 is half the size, noise and twice the performance.
[19:14:06] <Tempt> cmihai: Wow, when did you stock up?
[19:14:11] <cmihai> :-)
[19:14:24] <delewis> I would ask where those L2000s went they just took out of production, but I suspect we resale them.
[19:15:01] * delewis works about 200-300 ft from several thousand HP and Sun systems.
[19:15:16] <Tempt> cmihai: Did you end up getting a decent SPARC machine?
[19:15:49] <cmihai> Tempt, couldn't find one :-(
[19:16:00] <cmihai> Still looking for a Power 4
[19:16:03] <cmihai> And a SPARC>
[19:16:06] * Tempt currently has two v880s, two e250s, four netra t1 105s, a blade 1000, an Ultra 20 and a T2000 in the house.
[19:16:18] <jteo> whoa.
[19:16:21] <cmihai> Nice.
[19:16:47] <cmihai> I would probably go for an Itanium with npars / vPars and all that Virtualization bull
[19:16:52] <RealWickedWicky> I have a SparcStation 20 !
[19:16:53] <cmihai> and run HP-UX and OpenVMS...
[19:16:54] <RealWickedWicky> WHOO THA MAN?!
[19:16:57] <Tempt> I have to admit I don't own the T2000 though.
[19:17:05] <cmihai> hehe :-)
[19:17:37] <cmihai> You rock man :P
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[19:20:04] <Tempt> I need more toys though
[19:20:44] <cmihai> You can never have enough RISC machines.
[19:20:51] <Tempt> I want a couple of POWER boxes, preferably one POWER5 box at least
[19:21:02] <cmihai> Me too :_(. And an Itanium.
[19:21:03] <Tempt> and I need to go pick up my ES40 from where it is currently residing
[19:21:07] <cmihai> The Alphas are a waste of time now.
[19:21:17] <Tempt> and I wouldn't mind getting a nice SGI box to add to the collection
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[19:21:40] <Tempt> Alphas are nice machines, and they're turning up for decent prices on the used market now despite still being usably fast
[19:21:43] <vmlemon> Anyone know of a vendor of entry-level Itanium boxes?
[19:21:48] <Tempt> HP?
[19:21:49] <delewis> it's hard for me to justify the purchase of a system that's not going to benefit my professional experience.
[19:21:56] <delewis> SGIs fall in that category, nowadays, given SGI is dead.
[19:22:10] <Tempt> You don't buy SGIs for professional purposes
[19:22:12] <cmihai> I feel the same way.
[19:22:17] <Tempt> you buy 'em because they're cute and they're a toy
[19:22:20] <cmihai> I simply don't have enough time...
[19:22:22] <delewis> I can understand that.
[19:22:38] <Tempt> I've got a couple of Indys waiting at a mate's place, so I can always get one again for old time's sake
[19:22:43] <cmihai> (or money or space to store them)
[19:22:54] <RealWickedWicky> you're not that old, are you Tempt?
[19:23:23] <vmlemon> Or at least a usable Entry-level Itanium box? Or is a new box from HP the only option?
[19:23:40] <RealWickedWicky> why do you want Itanium?
[19:23:41] <delewis> vmlemon: there's ton of older HP Itanium gear on eBay.
[19:23:44] <delewis> some of it is even Itanium2.
[19:23:53] <delewis> usually goes for $1-$2k, so fairly affordable.
[19:23:59] <cmihai> vmlemon, Itanium is very expensive. 2000$ at least
[19:24:14] <vmlemon> Experimentation and curiosity
[19:24:29] <Tempt> RealWickedWicky: Not too old, but old enough to know better ;)
[19:24:31] <vmlemon> 2nd hand'll do
[19:24:32] <cmihai> RealWickedWicky, Itanium can run HP-UX, Windows and OpenVMS. And has neat virtualization.
[19:25:00] <Tempt> Alpha can run Tru64, OpenVMS, Windows, *BSD and Loonix
[19:25:07] <Tempt> and has killer floating point
[19:25:11] <cmihai> And it's dead.
[19:25:12] <RealWickedWicky> It was always my understanding that Itanium suffered a quite painfull death
[19:25:19] <cmihai> Nope.
[19:25:23] <cmihai> That's Alpha.
[19:25:25] <jteo> RealWickedWicky: it's still alive.
[19:25:30] <cmihai> Itanium is very much alive and sucking.
[19:25:36] <RealWickedWicky> interesting
[19:25:37] <cmihai> But very much alive.
[19:25:38] <Tempt> I read a report that only 12 Itanium servers were sold in Australia in Q1 this year
[19:25:42] <delewis> RealWickedWicky: that's the platform all of the PA-RISC customers migrated to.
[19:25:43] <Tempt> compared to over 500 T2000s alone
[19:25:48] <cmihai> Yep.
[19:25:52] *** RealWickedWicky is now known as WickedWicky
[19:25:53] <delewis> heh
[19:25:57] <cmihai> But if they're 128 superdome servers...
[19:25:58] <delewis> we buy Itanium systems like crazy.
[19:26:03] <delewis> so that's definitely not the case here. :-)
[19:26:05] <jteo> why?
[19:26:07] <vmlemon> Won't Itanium run Linux or F/O/N BSD?
[19:26:13] <cmihai> sure it will
[19:26:14] <cmihai> Runs FreeBSD
[19:26:16] <cmihai> Linux
[19:26:23] <Tempt> I like the fact that I'm not doing prod support now, and my role pushes me to be a little more of a generalist
[19:26:32] <cmihai> Tempt, that means Itanium outsold SPARC 3:1 :P
[19:26:35] <delewis> we've got 4 or so v2500s, tons and tons of rx5xxx class systems, and quite a few rx7xxx class systems.
[19:27:14] <Tempt> And we've got a couple of old grizzled OpenVMS guys
[19:27:20] <Tempt> who have masses of Alphas in the basement
[19:27:24] <WickedWicky> I found an Dual P2 450 board with processors in my room today while cleaning
[19:27:28] <Tempt> racks and racks of the stuff
[19:27:48] <Tempt> WickedWicky: I found free entry tickets to the local strip club. I win.
[19:28:05] <WickedWicky> LOL
[19:28:07] <WickedWicky> you sure do
[19:28:14] <Tempt> ouch
[19:28:24] <tsp> I played with an openvms shell, it was weird
[19:28:27] <Tempt> Fedex will be ~$670 for that box
[19:28:38] <delewis> not cheap.
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[19:29:11] <cmihai> tsp, they don't call it shell, they call it DCL
[19:29:17] <cmihai> Digital Command Language :-). It's quite neat.
[19:29:45] <tsp> quite neat unless you try to do something like delete a directory recursively for which you have to download a program or google for the arcane syntax to do so :)
[19:30:20] <g4lt-mordant> for values of "neat" implying a MAJOR fish-out-of-water syndrome for anyone used to cp/m-unix
[19:30:52] <cmihai> tsp, you can run ksh on OpenVMS :P
[19:31:09] <vmlemon> Chuck bash on it, and all is well ;)
[19:31:23] * cmihai throws durians at vmlemon
[19:31:34] <cmihai> Don't say the b>>> word!
[19:31:54] <vmlemon> Why?
[19:32:17] <cmihai> It's offensive :P
[19:32:52] <Tempt> bash bash bash bash bash
[19:32:58] <vmlemon> Windows XP's cmd.exe is worse ;)
[19:32:59] <tsp> zsh ftw
[19:33:20] <cmihai> vmlemon, but Window's Powershell is a lot better.
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[19:33:37] <vmlemon> And it runs on Wine
[19:33:44] * vmlemon ducks
[19:33:49] <cmihai> No, mono :P
[19:33:50] <cmihai> It's .net
[19:33:51] <cmihai> But anywho
[19:34:06] <cmihai> On Windows 2008 with Exchange 2007 SP1 you can have for example just a windows core install
[19:34:09] <cmihai> No GUI / explorer
[19:34:10] <vmlemon> (cmd, not PS)
[19:34:26] <cmihai> and use Powershell (well, you need the .NET, that's not in core) to manage it
[19:34:53] <rennj> old k,d,l
[19:35:12] <cmihai> EnableStorageGroupCopy sg machine2
[19:35:16] <cmihai> Bam, rsyncs the stuff for HA
[19:35:37] <rennj> last hp i had was rp8400, v2600
[19:35:39] <cmihai> It's got some pretty cool stuff.
[19:35:40] * vmlemon wonders what the Windows XP equivalent of df is from the CLI
[19:35:48] <cmihai> dir
[19:35:58] <rennj> bunch of k,d,l boxes
[19:36:00] <cmihai> reports free space on the bottom.
[19:36:15] <vmlemon> For getting free disk space?
[19:36:18] <cmihai> Yes
[19:36:24] <cmihai> vmlemon, even cmd and windows tools can do pretty much all the management tasks you'd do in UNIX.
[19:36:28] <cmihai> And you can install SFU / ksh :D
[19:37:01] <vmlemon> Never thought of scraping that when I wrote MoTDStats
[19:37:23] <cmihai> You can do all the major stuff like pipes and all too
[19:37:39] <cmihai> And even package management.
[19:37:48] <cmihai> msiexec /x firefox
[19:37:51] <cmihai> uninstalls firefox from cmd line
[19:38:01] <vmlemon> ver being uname-esque in function
[19:38:14] <cmihai> It's just that most admins never know about it... and bitch how Windows this Linux that
[19:38:18] <vmlemon> I think
[19:38:27] <cmihai> Yep
[19:38:47] <cmihai> systeminfo being like prtconf && showrev -p
[19:38:52] <cmihai> and so on
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[19:39:30] * vmlemon wonders why he installed GNUWin32's uname and df utilities
[19:39:51] <tsp> windows rsync is crap, if you have a file with a unicode filename, it won't rsync. I was battling that before I said forget it
[19:39:56] <cmihai> Miss ipfilter? netsh. Service control? net stop bla, sc start someservice, etc.
[19:40:32] <cmihai> lsof? openfiles or handle -a. It's all there, it's just that most people don't know it.
[19:40:54] <tsp> there's also the sysinternals utilities, but recently they got acquired by microsoft and bloated beyond reason
[19:41:05] <jteo> tsp: that is sad to hear. :(
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[19:41:05] <vmlemon> Shame it doesn't ship with Perl, but ActivePerl works well
[19:41:35] <tsp> jteo: the old ones you can find around the net only work until everyone switches to vista then some of them will die
[19:41:54] <SchwarzeKrause> Hi, everyone. Can anybody say, how does OpenSolaris support laptop's hardware in comparison to Linux? I've heard that it can even use Wi-Fi out-of-box. How about stuff like internal mic/webcam/fingerprint scanner? I'm using a recent SantaRosa HP Pavilion
[19:42:05] <tsp> waht used to be an 50k exe turned into like a 200k exe due to them including a licence agreement in all of the .exes
[19:42:08] <cmihai> tsp, not true.
[19:42:23] <cmihai> tsp, some are already getting integrated.
[19:42:26] <cmihai> That's actually good.
[19:42:40] <vmlemon> Can you (e)grep, though from cmd?
[19:42:45] <cmihai> And yes, the license angreement sucks, but I've got a script that does regedit and adds all the keys for all of them :-)
[19:42:54] <cmihai> find
[19:43:03] <cmihai> help find
[19:43:06] <tsp> ah, never thought of the reg script
[19:43:11] <cmihai> :-)
[19:43:25] <cmihai> tsp, use procmon to figure out which reg keys they add :P
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[19:43:45] <tsp> What I really want out of windows is a stable os, and good accessibility - both are sadly lacking
[19:43:54] <cmihai> That's false mate.
[19:43:58] <cmihai> Windows is stable.
[19:44:16] <tsp> not if you run a screen reader on top of it - reboots every 7 days max
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[19:44:29] <tsp> usually far less
[19:44:30] <g4lt-mordant> used properly, windows is very stable.  of course "used properly" is as a doorstop
[19:44:35] <cmihai> tsp, hm... odd. What version are you running?
[19:44:42] <tsp> windows xp sp2
[19:44:42] <Tempt> 3.0
[19:44:47] <vmlemon> 1.0
[19:44:49] <Tempt> with a DOS packet driver
[19:44:51] <vmlemon> ;)
[19:44:56] <Tempt> and the KA9Q DOS TCP extensions
[19:45:10] <tsp> I keep my sparc up just for irc and browsing the web because my state dies every time windows spontaniously reboots
[19:45:14] <tsp> Tempt: I remember those
[19:45:21] <tsp> could never figure out how to use them
[19:45:22] <cmihai> tsp, well, I run about 1000 systems here, and get reports of crashes on the mom management. And I haven't seen one in months.
[19:45:32] <cmihai> All business stuff.
[19:46:06] <tsp> cmihai: You're lucky - maybe its my hardware, but all of the blind people I know say windows crashes alot
[19:46:12] <cmihai> And when they do crash, I look at the dump. It _most_ cases it's a driver like nvidia acting stupid. But even now those won't crash the machine.
[19:46:14] <Tempt> just wait until computers plug straight into the brain
[19:46:20] <Tempt> that'll make the crashes more fun
[19:46:23] <tsp> the screen readers use process injection and such to get their info
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[19:46:38] <tsp> Tempt: I would love having a computer connected to my brain
[19:46:39] <jteo> Tempt: stupidity is already quite prevalent without windows.
[19:46:44] <cmihai> tsp, Yes, well, you could send me a memory dump.. kernel memory dump and I'll look at it.
[19:47:04] <vmlemon> Hmm, brain.dmp...?
[19:47:07] <Tempt> bypassing the eyes and having a framebuffer communicate directly with the optic nerves would be ideal
[19:47:14] <arcwire> ?
[19:47:20] <cmihai> As of Vista for example the nvidia kernel driver can crash, but won't crash the machine. It gets restarted.
[19:47:28] <cmihai> I've had that happen twice so far.
[19:47:48] <tsp> cmihai: if I can get it to crash again, which now that I've complained on irc it probably won't for awhile :) usually these days I have to reboot it since it just gets slower and slows down to a crawl
[19:47:53] <cmihai> In other cases, it's just bad memory. tsp Run memtest86+ on your machine.
[19:48:05] * tsp ran that awhile ago, didn't find any problems
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[19:48:37] <cmihai> tsp, well, could be a driver than. The kernel dump / LiveKD / WinDBG will, in most cases, point to the culprit.
[19:49:04] <tsp> Where does windows dump?
[19:49:19] <cmihai> tsp, were you set it to dump... you must go to... right mouse my computer
[19:49:22] *** iamscared is now known as AllNaturalDork
[19:49:33] <cmihai> properties - system and you set the dump dir
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[19:49:46] <cmihai> tsp, you actually need to make it create a kernel dump, not a minidump.
[19:49:54] <vmlemon> You get different dump types of course, too
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[19:50:12] <arcwire> ok, ?
[19:50:16] <Tempt> LeftWing: Poink
[19:50:18] <arcwire> if anyone can help
[19:50:21] <vmlemon> Anyone use full dumps?
[19:50:24] <cmihai> tsp, it's on the Advanced tab. Startup and Recovery. System Failure.
[19:50:27] <arcwire> switch my box form dhcp to static
[19:50:28] <cmihai> vmlemon, yes.
[19:50:38] <arcwire> I can nslookup anything
[19:50:41] * tsp bets its his sound driver or something relating to audio since he uses it every day
[19:50:42] <cmihai> vmlemon, it's also a good idea to create a BSOD screenshot in windows.
[19:50:44] <Tempt> arcwire: If you don't mind a reboot and want the easy option, sys-unconfig
[19:50:51] <arcwire> but my browser can not get to anything
[19:51:01] <cmihai> You can make windows blue screen with Control Scroll Scroll :-)
[19:51:13] <cmihai> (if it's a freeze, those are harder to debug without a dump)
[19:51:25] <arcwire> yea, sys-unconfig is easy but, I am trying to learn why it doesn't work
[19:51:36] <vmlemon> Isn't that why they make VMware products? ;)
[19:51:41] <cmihai> It's also fun to add it as a group policy on your network and then crash all machines :P
[19:51:55] <arcwire> So what would it be....
[19:52:08] <arcwire> if I can nslookup
[19:52:09] * tsp doesn't think his screen reader should constantly take between 20-60% of the CPU
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[19:52:26] <arcwire> I should be able to use anything that uses dns
[19:52:27] <arcwire> correct
[19:52:28] <cmihai> http://unixsadm.blogspot.com/2007/10/windows-crash-dump-and-hang-analysis.html - if you want to have some fun with your friends, configure this keyboard driver shortcut to make Windows blue screen :-). Just type 3 keys, and their machine blue screens :P
[19:53:10] <cmihai> tsp, use process explorer to mesure that. And sort by deltas, not CPU time. Could be a false value.
[19:54:03] <tsp> ah
[19:54:18] * tsp uses windows as a glorified terminal, I hope to run it under virtualbox soon
[19:58:11] <vmlemon> Anyone think of a way to make http://paster.dazjorz.com/?p=1235 more portable?
[19:59:56] <Tempt> arcwire: So you can get DNS resolution but not connect to machines?
[20:00:11] <Tempt> arcwire: have you tried poking machines directly from the commandline instead of trusting your browser?
[20:00:12] <cmihai> arcwire, not true
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[20:00:27] <cmihai> arcwire, maybe there is no route to the machine but there is to the DNS
[20:00:31] <arcwire> ok
[20:00:41] <arcwire> I can ping with name and ip
[20:00:47] <arcwire> from con
[20:00:48] <Tempt> try
[20:00:53] <Tempt> telnet www.google.com 80
[20:01:03] <cmihai> GET / HTTP/1.1
[20:01:04] <cmihai> :-)
[20:02:12] <Tempt> pretty much
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[20:02:35] <cmihai> try a smtp too
[20:02:40] *** LeftWing has joined #OpenSolaris
[20:02:50] <cmihai> (could be a dead transparent proxy)
[20:02:52] <Tempt> telnet mail.victim.com
[20:03:01] <Tempt> MAIL FROM: spammity at spam dot spam.spam
[20:03:03] <Tempt> :)
[20:03:05] <cmihai> nope
[20:03:08] <vmlemon> nmap?
[20:03:09] <cmihai> EHLO :P
[20:03:21] <Tempt> nessus!
[20:03:26] <cmihai> satan!\
[20:03:30] <cmihai> saint!
[20:03:32] <cmihai> sara :-)
[20:03:33] <vmlemon> amap
[20:03:34] <arcwire> i am recycling the box
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[20:03:46] <cmihai> amap is part of nmap now ;P
[20:03:52] <WickedWicky> Tempt, you forgot to add 25, sif
[20:03:52] <vmlemon> if people still use it
[20:04:16] <vmlemon> Wondered where amap went
[20:04:29] <cmihai> nmap does that stuff now
[20:05:16] <vmlemon> ettercap?
[20:05:19] <Tempt> recycling the box
[20:05:28] <Tempt> get much for scrap metal these days?
[20:05:39] <vmlemon> China it ;)
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[20:07:45] <WickedWicky> I think the deal these days is coper. Since there are loonies who literaly break in to an electricity windmill and cut the coperwires for selling
[20:08:04] <WickedWicky> and they steal the coper next to the railtrack, same reason
[20:08:09] <arcwire> hahah
[20:08:12] <arcwire> tempt
[20:08:19] <arcwire> I just saw your joke
[20:08:21] <arcwire> hahah
[20:08:51] <Tempt> man
[20:08:53] <Tempt> here
[20:08:58] <Tempt> they got in at night
[20:09:08] <Tempt> and stole a couple of kilometres of overhead power line for the trains
[20:09:18] <Tempt> they even knew how to make sure it wouldn't alarm an outage
[20:09:22] <cmihai> Tempt, could be worse.
[20:09:27] <cmihai> Tempt, here gipsies stole a bomb.
[20:09:28] <WickedWicky> HAHA, serious?
[20:09:28] <Tempt> and the next day, the trains just stopped
[20:09:31] <cmihai> A fucking 500kg BOMB
[20:09:32] <arcwire> yea
[20:09:36] <cmihai> And took it to the iron smelting plant
[20:09:39] <Tempt> WickedWicky: yeah, google it, there must be some coverage
[20:09:49] <arcwire> got telnet: connect to address 64.233.169.104: Network is unreachable
[20:09:59] <Tempt> http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2006/s1795090.htm
[20:10:02] <cmihai> arcwire, tracerotue it
[20:10:42] <cmihai> Tempt, dude, here they dig up WW2 ammo and try to melt it :P
[20:10:48] <arcwire> just did netstat
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[20:10:55] <arcwire> no default route
[20:10:58] <arcwire> i am idiot
[20:10:59] <cmihai> arcwire, duh
[20:11:01] <arcwire> i know better
[20:11:02] <cmihai> arcwire, I told you!
[20:11:09] <arcwire> sorry ya
[20:11:10] <cmihai> arcwire, "route add default YOURDAMNGATEWAYHERE"
[20:11:19] <cmihai> :-)
[20:11:41] <cmihai> Anyway, it happens :-)
[20:11:42] <g4lt-mordant> cmihai, you know, I think they should be encouraged to do so, as Darwin loves them
[20:11:51] <cmihai> Heh, yeah
[20:11:59] <arcwire> her is what thu me
[20:12:08] <arcwire> if I flipped to dhcp
[20:12:11] <arcwire> it would work
[20:12:17] <cmihai> g4lt-mordant, my grandmother told me a story about a similar specimen.. who used one as an anvil
[20:12:23] <g4lt-mordant> because DHCP assigns a route
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[20:12:28] <arcwire> yep
[20:13:08] <cmihai> g4lt-mordant, and the whole village had to fight the erm.. village idiot to make him stop using the damn thing.
[20:13:21] <g4lt-mordant> you know, that would be funny as hell, get one of those fake bombs and set it up as an anvil
[20:13:24] <WickedWicky> briliant
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[20:16:56] <Tempt> That's what's missing from my life
[20:16:58] <Tempt> live ordnance
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[20:20:53] <Symmetria> heh
[20:21:02] <Symmetria> well machine is back up
[20:21:11] <Symmetria> it seems that the culprit which went wild was apache :p
[20:21:27] <Symmetria> well, apache in one of the zones
[20:21:28] <Tempt> ahahahha
[20:21:30] <arcwire> thx yall, I add the gateway to  /etc/defaultroute
[20:21:33] <arcwire> we are good
[20:21:35] <Tempt> time to set an lwp limit for your zones
[20:21:38] <arcwire> thx again
[20:22:47] <cmihai> Symmetria, that's nuts, it shouldn't take the machine down.
[20:23:05] <cmihai> Symmetria, unless, of course, you didn't limit your zones.. yeah
[20:23:37] <Tempt> I believe Brendan has a simple guide on his website
[20:23:38] <Symmetria> heh cmihai I HAD limits on the zone, removed them during ubuntu/firefox release a while back
[20:23:43] <Symmetria> and forgot to put them on
[20:23:48] <cmihai> Oh ;-)
[20:23:51] <Symmetria> because the zone was needing every resource the machine could throw at it
[20:23:52] <Symmetria> :)
[20:24:01] <Symmetria> heh was running like 8 thousand established connections to that machine
[20:24:08] <cmihai> Symmetria, are you using 08/07?
[20:24:11] <Symmetria> (that machine = mirror server)
[20:24:16] <e^ipi> hmm... damn... apple removed netinfo manager, the bastards
[20:24:17] <cmihai> Figured that out :P
[20:24:35] <Tempt> Symmetria: Time to find a webserver that SUCKS LESS
[20:24:35] <Symmetria> heh no, svn_62, I need to update it just very very seldom get to be able to reboot it
[20:24:40] <Tempt> Symmetria: Hint! Sun have one
[20:24:56] <Symmetria> heh Tempt does sun's webserver do php btw?
[20:25:01] <e^ipi> now I need to either figure out a way to change my UID, or finally get around to learning how to set up kerberos
[20:25:14] <Symmetria> and does it cost a fortune :p
[20:25:23] <Tempt> Symmetria: Of course it does.
[20:25:31] <Tempt> Symmetria: Just remember to grab the php add-on
[20:25:57] <Tempt> e^ipi: does macos do nfsv4 yet?
[20:26:04] <e^ipi> I believe so
[20:26:11] <Tempt> about time
[20:26:19] <Tempt> the last security update for 10.4 broke NFS
[20:26:23] <Tempt> I can't mount shares anymore
[20:26:28] <Symmetria> heh I went and bought leopard today
[20:26:31] <Symmetria> to upgrade my macbook
[20:26:42] <cmihai> Neat
[20:26:53] <Symmetria> install was seamless, worked perfectly, just took a shit long time
[20:27:14] <Symmetria> I heard people say that the upgrade broke things like cisco vpn client and parallels, but both still worked fine on mine after the upgrade
[20:27:39] <Symmetria> (and major plus with leopard, compared to microsoft operating systems, it was hella cheap)
[20:27:57] <cmihai> What do you mean?
[20:27:58] <Tempt> Even cheaper if you just borrow someone else's copy ;)
[20:28:09] <Symmetria> heh cmihai I mean, if you bought vista it was 5 times the price
[20:28:10] <Symmetria> :p
[20:28:23] <cmihai> Symmetria, how much was Leopard btw
[20:28:35] <cmihai> Tempt, even cheaper if you run a "special" edition on a regular laptop :P
[20:28:41] <Symmetria> leopard cost like, about 100 euros if I convert (so   whats that, about a gazillion dollars right now? :p)
[20:28:56] <quasi> $100 in apple land
[20:29:10] <cmihai> 150 $ or so :P
[20:29:24] <cmihai> That's cheap.
[20:29:34] <quasi> stevie fanboys still think exchanging  1:1 on $ to eur is fine
[20:29:35] <cmihai> Too bad MacBooks are overpriced.
[20:29:37] <Tempt> cmihai: Tried it on my lifebook, ran like a dog :)
[20:29:38] <Symmetria> *nod* especially considering all the software it comes packaged with
[20:29:55] <Tempt> I wish SSGD could publish MacOS applications
[20:30:00] <Tempt> that'd rock
[20:30:01] <Symmetria> heh cmihai errr macbook pro 17", if you buy another notebook with same spec, the price isnt that different
[20:30:18] <Tempt> If SSGD could handle MacOS apps and do it well, I'd almost consider buying another Apple product
[20:30:20] <cmihai> Tempt, well, I've got a Core 2 2Ghz / 4MB Cache / 2GB RAM / 8600GT :-). So it rocks...
[20:30:54] <cmihai> So it's basically the same specs as the MacBook Pro.. Santa Rosa and all.
[20:31:07] <cmihai> Apple sucks for this really.
[20:31:14] <cmihai> Not allowing people to run MacOS on any machine.
[20:31:28] <Tempt> naah
[20:31:40] <Tempt> They wouldn't make money selling MacOS seperately and they'd kill their hardware market
[20:31:48] <cmihai> Meh
[20:32:08] <cmihai> They'd make money... and they'd just sell iPods :P
[20:32:13] <quasi> cmihai: then it wouldn't be as easy for them to get drivers right - and they don't want uncool people using their os
[20:32:17] <Tempt> I mean, I understand wanting the software, but I also appreciate business realities
[20:32:24] <Tempt> You'll just have to pirate it
[20:32:33] <Tempt> 'uncool'
[20:32:43] <cmihai> quasi, drivers are pie... hell, the pirates insert drivers into the damn thing.
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[20:32:59] <quasi> cmihai: apple doesn't think so
[20:33:04] <Tempt> I think anyone who pays more just to get their laptop in black is so unhip it's a wonder their bum doesn't fall off
[20:33:16] <cmihai> heh
[20:33:30] <cmihai> Yeah, well, could be worse.
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[20:33:35] <cmihai> Pink ipods are more expensive for example.
[20:33:37] <quasi> cmihai: apple expect their customers to be advertising types who wouldn't know a driver if it jumped up an bit them
[20:33:43] <cmihai> And reds.. even like 20$ more expensive :-)
[20:34:12] <cmihai> So you're paying 20$ more for... erm... a different color bikeshed.
[20:34:27] <arcwire> Hey but if you think about it, Mac forcing you to by there hardware can be a good thing. Stability goes up when there is less hardware choice, you can control the environment.
[20:34:54] <arcwire> Windows runs on lots of hardware but how many bad drivers are out there..
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[20:35:23] <Tempt> meh
[20:35:25] <cmihai> arcwire, that's rather.. true.
[20:35:27] <Tempt> Solaris/SPARC is damn stable
[20:35:32] <Tempt> even with third-party drivers
[20:35:37] <cmihai> arcwire, like I've said, more than 90% of all crashes here were 3rd party drivers.
[20:35:57] <Tempt> But there's a culture of developing and testing drivers properly
[20:36:24] <arcwire> But I can say that microsoft has sent dropped the ball on there own
[20:36:40] <arcwire> the take way to many short cuts...
[20:36:49] <cmihai> Wouldn't say that.
[20:36:57] <cmihai> They now require drivers to be certified for the x64 platform and all that.
[20:37:01] <cmihai> It's getting a lot better.
[20:37:13] <cmihai> Besides, Windows has over 60000 drivers. Duh, some are buggy.
[20:37:24] <cmihai> And that's like 300000 driver versions...
[20:37:35] <cmihai> And like a million Plug and Pray junk.
[20:37:46] <cmihai> (that's actually a really close estimate)
[20:38:31] <arcwire> Yea that part I agree with, but do really need to upgrade to vista
[20:38:42] <arcwire> I mean directx 11
[20:38:45] <cmihai> 10.
[20:39:04] <cmihai> Vista has some pretty cool stuff mate. Stability and security wise.
[20:39:05] <arcwire> sorry
[20:39:06] <arcwire> 10
[20:39:39] <arcwire> the security was a big jump, but sp3 is going to have tons of fix that will get it close to vista's security
[20:39:41] <cmihai> And like I've said, it can handle drivers crashing and restart them.
[20:39:57] <cmihai> Yeah, but it won't have stuff like ASLR
[20:40:28] <arcwire> I just trying to look at it from a practical sense . I just don't see the need to upgrade to vista..I mean for me..
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[20:41:32] <arcwire> Oh, and there only 10 versions of vista now....
[20:41:42] <arcwire> and soon to have home domains
[20:42:10] <cmihai> Heh, and there's 666 Linux distros in 37 versions each.
[20:42:15] <cmihai> What's your point.
[20:42:17] <arcwire> I can just see everyone running out setup home domains...
[20:42:34] <arcwire> I know , when you look at it that way your right
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[20:43:48] <Tempt> home domains?
[20:43:57] <arcwire> yea
[20:44:12] <arcwire> there coming out with home server
[20:44:28] <arcwire> I am sure your going to run out and put one in ...
[20:44:40] <arcwire> instead of using the real deal
[20:44:46] <arcwire> heheh
[20:45:03] <arcwire> speaking off...home stuff
[20:45:13] <arcwire> is anyone running freenas
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[20:45:52] <bane_of_dmarker> !seen dmarker
[20:45:55] <Drone> dmarker is currently online in #opensolaris and last spoke on Wed 15 Aug 2007 23:18 GMT, saying 'nrubsig: 'sup?'.
[20:46:15] <bane_of_dmarker> dmarker: ping!
[20:46:16] <arcwire> think of move to home NAS setup
[20:46:24] <arcwire> any thoughts
[20:47:58] <cmihai> Solaris + ZFS + compression + NFS or Solaris + ZFS + iSCSI.
[20:48:23] <Tempt> easier just to run Samba for a domain controller, isn't it?
[20:48:24] <salmandr> any news on smbfs? alpha 2 was quite a while ago
[20:48:35] <cmihai> FreeNAS is bloody FreeBSD.
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[20:49:01] <Tempt> And why would we build a fileserver on something other than Solaris?
[20:49:04] <cmihai> Either run FreeBSD or don't. Why bother with someone's distro?
[20:49:11] <Tempt> And when did a fileserver become 'NAS' anyway
[20:49:14] <Tempt> *grumble*
[20:49:23] <cmihai> Tempt, it's a SAN!! :P
[20:49:38] <cmihai> heh
[20:49:41] <Tempt> cmihai: There's actually a lot of linux/bsd based NAS products, including some expensive ones ...
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[20:49:51] <Tempt> *grumble*
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[20:50:04] <Tempt> I've been serving my files from Solaris for years
[20:50:07] <Tempt> started with Solaris 8
[20:50:15] <Tempt> actually, hang on, 2.6
[20:50:25] <cmihai> I've seen people trying to do 3TB storage "arrays"
[20:50:26] <cmihai> on OpenBSD.
[20:50:27] <Tempt> First ran Solaris for fileserver duty on Solaris 2.6
[20:50:33] <cmihai> Wiith RAIDframe.
[20:50:42] <cmihai> That's about the stupidest thing I've ever seen anyone attempt.
[20:51:01] <cmihai> Not counting the fact FFSv1 limits the bloke to 1TB filesystems. Or that fsck will need 4GB of RAM to fsck that...
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[20:51:15] <arcwire> ok,ok I will use solaris for my file storage
[20:51:16] <cmihai> (and take AGES)
[20:51:17] <arcwire> hehe
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[20:51:36] <cmihai> You know how they say:  1MB of RAM per 1GB of disk to fsck.
[20:51:43] <cmihai> Well, fuck that! :-)
[20:52:43] <SchwarzeKrause> Hi, everyone. Can anybody say, how does OpenSolaris support laptop's hardware in comparison to Linux? I've heard that it can even use Wi-Fi out-of-box. How about stuff like internal mic/webcam/fingerprint scanner? I'm using a recent SantaRosa HP Pavilion
[20:53:45] <tomww> SchwarzeKrause: atheros wlan works with wpa, but the other cards only w/o encryption
[20:54:03] <aka_druid> sun login to download stuff is goin to get me crazy very soon.. it works 50% of the time only, omfg
[20:54:15] <tomww> if you #define mic as microphone/audio, then you would have to tell what audio is in your notebook.
[20:54:29] <aka_druid> how do they expect people to download stuff when they put this torture to get to download links
[20:55:17] <tomww> webcam there is a project where the better models of logitech and other USB-cameras using some standard-protocol work out-of-the-box with the single application ekiga
[20:56:15] <niner> Hmmm.   Do I max out the RAM on this Blade 100, or do I grab a video card for it....
[20:58:01] <SchwarzeKrause> Is there any kind of wiki/forum where I could see issues connected to using OS on laptops apart from that official HCL?
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[20:58:19] <Tempt> niner: Depends on how much RAM is in there
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[20:58:56] <niner> Tempt:    256mb ram right now.   SXCE base install, CDE desktop, and it idles at a load avg of about 1.5.
[20:59:04] <Tempt> right
[20:59:07] <Tempt> then RAM is your next purchase
[20:59:10] * niner is checking fleabay right now for appropriate DIMMS
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[21:01:13] <jteo> CDE rocks.
[21:01:28] <tomww> jteo: heh
[21:03:06] <tomww> SchwarzeKrause: not a single point of informaation. but the email-archives and the project pages for the different areas hosted on opensolaris.org might help.
[21:03:55] <niner> Tempt:   I managed to nab a pallet of 20 Blade 100 and 150s from a surplus dealer.   no ram, no HD in any of them.    I'm trying to figure out how to proceed. :)
[21:04:32] <Tempt> jesus
[21:04:36] <Tempt> What did you pay for it?
[21:04:51] <g4lt-mordant> niner, find a pallet of 127G disks and PC133U ram ;P
[21:05:05] <Tempt> haha
[21:05:10] <jteo> niner: WTF.
[21:05:47] <jteo> that's probably the larger than the entire blade 100/150 population on my island. (i keeed...i keed)
[21:05:58] <Tempt> Total: 988 processes, 4649 lwps, load averages: 20.97, 20.21, 19.50
[21:06:12] <Tempt> still surprising to see this host actually doing something
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[21:07:01] <RealWickedWicky> heya sommerfeld
[21:07:53] <niner> tempt:   I traded some stuff to him.
[21:08:08] <tomww> Tempt: I can see you sitting there totally relaxed ...
[21:08:11] <g4lt-mordant> hopefully nothing very useful... ;P
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[21:09:47] <g4lt-mordant> Tempt, solaris doesn't really have issues unless the memory is filled or the loadavg hits about 50ish.  I've seen systems that sort-of responded to KVM events in realtime with loadavgs of 200ish
[21:09:51] *** bengtf_ is now known as bengtf
[21:09:54] <Tempt> hey
[21:10:00] <Tempt> I *know* how Solaris behaves, guys.
[21:10:10] <Tempt> I'm just commenting that my usually lazy machine is actually doing something.
[21:10:18] <RealWickedWicky> blender?
[21:10:26] <Tempt> Still blending!
[21:10:28] *** RealWickedWicky is now known as WickedWicky
[21:10:36] <Tempt> also crunching up some jumpstart
[21:10:40] <Tempt> moving some filesystems around
[21:10:46] <Tempt> doing a dataload into an oracle instance
[21:10:51] <g4lt-mordant> ahh, as in "my system is actually doing things" vice "see, I have a high loadavg"
[21:11:46] <Tempt> I wouldn't worry about loadavg being high unless it crept over 500
[21:11:57] <Tempt> I've seen this box responsive with it around 900 before
[21:11:58] <tomww> this usually sounds:  "help help, i see the loadavg high"
[21:12:01] <Tempt> loadavg is bullshit
[21:12:16] <g4lt-mordant> 20 is about where solaris starts going "oh, it's about time I did something"
[21:12:40] <Tempt> the blender is niced back a little anyway, so it's not even diverting resources really.
[21:12:40] * niner smirks.
[21:12:59] <sommerfeld> indeed.  if (for instance) you're running under FSS, and a *different* project has thousands of processes running, you'll still have decent interactive response.
[21:13:11] <gisburn> Is anyone able to watch the bugster input queue ?
[21:13:16] <sommerfeld> but the load average will be in the "omg system is crashing!#@#@!" range on other systems
[21:13:22] <niner> at a previous job, i got tired of listening to coworkers whine when their linux workstations buckled under 'minor' strain.
[21:13:40] <niner> My two workstations were solaris x86 and freebsd respectively.
[21:13:52] <Tempt> haha
[21:13:55] <Tempt> recent humour
[21:13:57] <Tempt> OMFG
[21:14:02] <Tempt> 95% of memory is used!
[21:14:07] <Tempt> PANIC! RUN! SCREAM!
[21:14:17] <g4lt-mordant> max I've ever had linsux at was 50, and the dman thing was unusable
[21:14:18] <Tempt> never heard of this whole caching concept ... buffers ...
[21:14:53] * niner has taken a redhat box to about 30 before it seize.d
[21:14:58] <Tempt> Used to have a four way x86 box running loonix, and it'd get laggy when 'loadavg' hit 4
[21:15:06] <gisburn> sommerfeld: ping!
[21:15:21] * niner is getting two 4way SGIs from work.
[21:15:27] <niner> they're discarding them.
[21:15:40] <niner> not terribly fast, but hell, i'll keep them out of landfill
[21:15:41] <kjetilho> niner: didn't know you had a boat
[21:15:51] <gisburn> sommerfeld: is there a way that you could spare 1... 2... 3... eyes to watch the input triage queue ?
[21:16:10] <Tempt> niner: nice.
[21:16:12] <Tempt> niner: pretty machines
[21:16:23] <gisburn> sommerfeld: s/queue/queue, please/
[21:16:28] <niner> yeah.   they'll run SXCE by the time i'm done.
[21:16:49] <Tempt> Oh, not MIPS then?
[21:16:52] <niner> nope.
[21:16:53] * Tempt loses interest
[21:17:16] <niner> they're throwing 4way SGI1400Ls out, but keeping the freaking indigo.
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[21:18:10] <quasi> the indigo looks nicer as a paper weight
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[21:18:33] <Tempt> man
[21:18:44] * bane_of_comay pokes comay
[21:18:45] <Tempt> about two years ago I put to Personal Irises out on the footpath
[21:18:50] <Tempt> they vanished in under two hours
[21:19:29] <WickedWicky> I think my Ultra 5 will soon suffer a high load as well
[21:19:31] <niner> my employer's not full of the brightest people.    "Hey, go pull the two access points from that building before we turn it over to demo crew."
[21:19:49] <niner> ".... what about the switches?"   "there are no switches, they'd respond to ping."
[21:19:57] <niner> there's no POWER TO THE BUILDING.
[21:20:28] <Tempt> heh
[21:20:35] * niner now has a cisco 2950.
[21:20:44] <niner> that never showed as being in our inventory
[21:20:56] <WickedWicky> I have a Cis^H^H^HLinksys WRT54G
[21:21:31] <WickedWicky> gotta love inventory
[21:21:44] <Tempt> 2950s aren't bad
[21:21:48] <WickedWicky> "Can I have one of those Netra 5 servers to test?"
[21:21:48] <Tempt> I want 3750s now
[21:21:51] <Tempt> gigabit time
[21:21:52] <WickedWicky> "What netra 5?"
[21:22:03] <WickedWicky> "one of the 10 that are laying right there *pointing finger*"
[21:22:49] <sommerfeld> gisburn: i'm sweeping up after what should have been a simple intermittent power outage
[21:23:11] <bane_of_comay> sommerfeld: what went wrong ?
[21:23:13] <sommerfeld> redundant transfer switch evidently wasn't
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[21:23:21] <kjetilho> the 2950 has two GBIC slots, doesn't it?
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[21:23:40] <kjetilho> not very practical for home use, though
[21:23:41] <nrubsig> sommerfeld: anything blew up ?
[21:23:44] <hali> some models do yes
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[21:23:57] <Tempt> what's impractical about the ciscos?
[21:23:58] <sommerfeld> what should have been a brief power outage lasted more like 2 minutes and took out.. many things on its way back up.
[21:24:15] <nrubsig> sommerfeld: ;-(
[21:24:16] <hali> having a rackmount switch at home feels a bit overkill
[21:24:17] <sommerfeld> like a 16-port gigabit fiber module in a cisco switch just upstream of my lab
[21:24:18] <kjetilho> Tempt: well, noise
[21:24:19] * niner isn't "practical" by any means w/r/t his home network.
[21:24:24] <hali> but then again cisco do offer desktop models
[21:24:24] * WickedWicky is listening to Kevin Bloody Wilson - Nigel krap
[21:24:29] <nrubsig> sommerfeld: sounds that this weekend will be ruined for you... ;-(
[21:24:29] <kjetilho> and form factor is not ideal in most homes :)
[21:25:05] <Tempt> 1RU is perfect
[21:25:10] <Tempt> every home should have a rack :)
[21:25:18] <sommerfeld> something about electricians pulling fuses from the UPS before flipping the big switch.
[21:25:41] <niner> kjetilho, I've got a full rack in my basement.     As the 'family tech support' guy, I've automated it so that my parent's computers are backed up to my fileserver once a week, etc.
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[21:27:32] <niner> phone company tech showed up one day when DSL went out:   "we need to check your interior wiring..... wtf...... you've got a full punchdown block?"
[21:28:01] <sommerfeld> 1RU sucks for anything that doesn't have walls between it and people.  little whiney fans.
[21:28:04] <myrkraverk> does anyone here know how to use the int 0x91 syscall here?
[21:28:21] <myrkraverk> (I know how, but I don't understand the extra pushl)
[21:28:26] <Tempt> ciscos aren't *too* bad that way
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[21:28:32] <niner> sommerfeld:  I concur about whiney fans.
[21:28:40] <niner> the 2950 is very quiet compared to the netra i got rid of
[21:29:04] <Tempt> routers are a little louder
[21:29:15] <Tempt> although my 2651 is pretty quiet
[21:30:15] <sommerfeld> whatever it was came back after the tech reset the module.  but before that it was spewing %MLS-5-MCAST_SCPFAILURE:SCP failure detected on module: [4]
[21:33:02] <nrubsig> comay: erm... if you read this: I need some guidance whether we should put the discussed issue in the current ksh update arc case or not...
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[21:47:42] * nrubsig finds more bugs from the "memory corruption department"
[21:48:33] <g4lt-mordant> nrubsig, ahh, most people call it the firefox department
[21:49:16] <jbk> i thought that was the memory leak department
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[21:52:11] <Tempt> the resource gobbling department
[21:52:19] <Tempt> also the run-like-a-dog-under-ssgd department
[21:52:26] <Tempt> and something to do with funny walks
[21:52:45] <WickedWicky> moonwalker?
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[21:56:33] <Tempt> hmm
[21:56:42] <Tempt> my netra doesn't want to netboot
[21:56:43] <Tempt> odd
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[21:58:01] <tomww> Tempt: rarp/bootparams or dhcp ?
[21:58:44] <Tempt> rarp/bootparams
[21:58:55] <Tempt> most odd
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[21:59:15] <Tempt> quick power cycle and all good
[21:59:24] <Tempt> easy to powercycle when you have LOM
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[22:38:16] <quasi> "> Any idea when the installer integration for ZFS root/boot will happen?"
[22:38:19] <quasi> "Project Indiana will have it next week-ish, but I don't know about SXCE.  SXCE itself might disappear before it gets the zfs root installer...?"
[22:38:42] <timely_changelog> heh, does indiana replace sxce? :)
[22:39:18] <e^ipi> i hope not...
[22:39:19] *** mihaic is now known as cmihai
[22:40:25] * quasi could think up some ideas about sun wanting to cut the number of people working on opensolaris, so booting those and hoping to get the "community" to borrow bits for indiana from linux
[22:40:46] <quasi> it explains the indiana peeps wanting to get rid of ARC
[22:41:12] * aka_druid hopes opensolaris doesnt get apt-get...
[22:41:33] <jbk> i don't seem to recall anyone talking about getting rid of arc
[22:41:39] <quasi> you'd rather have rpm?
[22:41:40] <Tpenta> nor do i
[22:41:57] <jbk> i do recall conversations about how to make arc work better for opensolaris
[22:41:58] <aka_druid> quasi, erm.. rpm and apt-get are really different things
[22:42:13] <e^ipi> aka_druid: a couple guys are working on something that seems a lot less brain-dead than the package managers linux has
[22:42:14] <quasi> well, talking about how it shouldn't apply to indiana
[22:42:32] <quasi> aka_druid: both are package management thingies
[22:42:44] <aka_druid> quasi, no, they are different things. You cant compare
[22:42:53] <jbk> again, i'm not sure about that...
[22:43:00] <aka_druid> "would you rather have a car without wheels, or wheels without a car"
[22:43:11] <e^ipi> it remains to be seen if it pans out that way, but from the description it doesn't sound like "spew data all over the drive, to hell with the consequences and inter-package incompatibilities "
[22:43:31] <quasi> aka_druid: just saying both can be used to install software - I didn't say they were the same, but they've been used for similar things
[22:44:09] <aka_druid> quasi, contrary to the debian and ubuntu fud, people in distros that adopts rpm package format doesnt go out in the internet chasing rpms, and in "rpm hell"
[22:44:20] <aka_druid> they use dependency solvers, like apt-get is
[22:44:24] <comay> quasi, i don't anyone who thinks the ARC shouldn't apply to indiana
[22:44:53] <comay> the prototype that's being worked on hasn't gone through ARC review but it is just that, a prototype
[22:45:31] <comay> as to ZFS root, it's my expectation you will see it made available via SXDE/SXCE
[22:45:50] <comay> probably only via the new streamline installer but it should appear
[22:45:57] <jbk> the problem is right now, still not there for sparc
[22:46:14] <comay> right - that's why the indiana prototype won't support sparc initially
[22:46:49] <jbk> though hopefully soon :)
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[22:47:09] <comay> sparc new boot is in code review and that
[22:47:28] <quasi> comay: I'm sure I've seen discussion about the current ARC and not wanting to use the exact same for indiana - fairly recently on one of the opensolaris lists (but I'm on 30 or 40, so not quite remembering which)
[22:47:34] <jbk> well i heard i think b78 was the target, but no idea if that's still the case...
[22:47:36] <comay> is the first step.  but progress is being made
[22:48:04] <jbk> quasi: see above comment about modifying arc
[22:48:13] <comay> quasi: i'm not aware of any such discussion and those of use who have
[22:48:28] <comay> been looking at things like the new packaging system or changes to system defaults
[22:48:39] <comay> certainly expect to be visiting the ARC often
[22:49:05] <comay> as jbk, there are some cocerns expressed with the way the ARC works
[22:49:11] <jbk> i think no one would dispute the current arc process doesn't work as well as it could for a community structure
[22:49:25] <comay> but for the most part, we're talking about making the process more open & accountable
[22:49:33] <quasi> jbk: right, something like that - although I still thought someone suggested suspending for indiana
[22:50:17] <comay> i'm not aware of any such suggestion
[22:50:41] <jbk> well let's put it this way, if that was even the case (which sounds like it could be disputed, but ignoring that), I don't think it's the plan going forward
[22:50:42] <quasi> probably not from anyone of great note
[22:50:55] <g4lt-mordant> yay! I'm immune to PI because they won't play with sparc
[22:51:08] <jbk> PI? private investigators?
[22:51:29] <comay> g4lt-morant: it's not that they won't play with sparc but that new boot isn't there yet
[22:51:36] <jbk> oh heh..
[22:51:49] <quasi> g4lt-mordant: the sb2000 I was looking at earlier suddenly starts looking a lot better ;)
[22:51:58] <g4lt-mordant> hey, don't harsh my vibe here ;P
[22:52:30] <Tpenta> david, how is sparc zfs boot handling the openboot firmware isuse?
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[22:52:52] <jbk> heh
[22:53:02] <jbk> nice timing :)
[22:53:13] <Tpenta> yea
[22:53:14] <Tpenta> lol
[22:53:31] <g4lt-mordant> yeah, usually he disappears when TEMPT is looking for him ;P
[22:53:32] <jbk> is there a specifc 'issue' you're thinking of?
[22:53:45] <jbk> tempt or nrubsig?
[22:53:51] <g4lt-mordant> either
[22:54:13] <ingenthr> Tpenta: iirc, sparc is getting something similar to grub rather than obp learning zfs
[22:54:21] <jbk> ramdisk
[22:54:25] <ingenthr> is that what you're referring to?
[22:54:48] <jbk> i don't think it's getting any fancy menus though
[22:54:49] <Tpenta> uhuh
[22:55:10] <jbk> just using a ramdisk to copy all the drivers + key /etc files needed during boot
[22:56:25] <WickedWicky> for them who it apply to: Don't forget to put your clocks back an hour tonight
[22:56:49] <logic> LOL thx for the reminder :)
[22:57:21] <WickedWicky> :D
[22:57:32] <g4lt-mordant> oooh, more drinking time
[22:57:47] <WickedWicky> great innit
[22:59:51] * logic opens another beer to celebrate :P
[23:00:00] <WickedWicky> Palinka here
[23:00:14] <WickedWicky> this afternoon I had Grolsch Herft Bok with my lunch
[23:00:18] <WickedWicky> gotta love autumn
[23:00:54] <logic> oww thats nice
[23:01:41] <logic> hmm strange, gdesklets is using about 1gb of my memory, thats a little bit to much..
[23:02:08] <jbk> hmm.. is the gfx card the only difference between an ultra 2 & ultra 2 enterprise?
[23:06:15] <ingenthr> logic: perhaps it's not all heap?  check it with pmap
[23:06:38] <ingenthr> jbk: i believe so, if i remember 1997 correctly :)
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[23:08:14] <logic> ingenthr: thanx, didnt know about that command, i will give it a try when gdesklets uses that much memory again, i just killed it ;)
[23:08:54] * quasi cracks open a brookly black choccolate stout
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[23:10:14] <Tempt> jbk: i *think* it might have been a SCSI vs. Ultra SCSI or something like that as well
[23:10:26] <WickedWicky> Tempt, you're still here
[23:10:27] <Tempt> The graphics card was the difference between Ultra-2 and Ultra-2 Creator
[23:10:36] <Tempt> I'm about to go to bed.
[23:10:40] <Tempt> given it's 8:10am
[23:10:52] <WickedWicky> good morning australia
[23:11:11] <ingenthr> well, there was a headless
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[23:17:07] <arcwire> ? how do I mount smb share from windows on solaris
[23:17:54] <cmihai> sharity light or the new smb framework thing.
[23:19:03] <arcwire> I was looking sharity but I thought there was something native...
[23:19:09] <arcwire> guess not..
[23:19:23] <cmihai> I told you, the "new smb thing"
[23:19:28] <cmihai> look in erm... onnv flag days
[23:20:29] <cmihai> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/on/flag-days/
[23:20:44] <cmihai> http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/on/flag-days/pages/2007102603/ I think it's this one...
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[23:24:19] <arcwire> thx cmihai
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