[00:01:00] <pschow> Fuzzy:  you'll see a panic saying "Processor does not support PAE" if this is the case...
[00:01:11] <Fuzzy> yea
[00:01:16] <Fuzzy> i'm not even seeing that
[00:02:29] <l1s> heeeeyyyy yaaaaaa.....
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[00:32:02] <lis> wuhahaha, the army send me 3 years off
[00:32:45] <lis> now i can retry my high school graduate
[00:32:58] <lis> remake
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[00:49:43] <Fuzzy> is there a way to get open solaris to break before mounting anything in the ram disk so i can do some maintence with format?
[00:51:27] <lis> insert a bootable cd disk and select one of the bottom boot options...
[00:51:47] <kjetilho> or boot in single user
[00:51:50] <lis> opensolaris c
[00:51:58] <kjetilho> it will mount / though
[00:52:06] <lis> aha single mode?
[00:52:58] <lis> it foun only crap with single mode thought...
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[01:13:40] <Fuzzy> i'll try getting into single mode
[01:13:52] <Fuzzy> because frankly i don't want to take this case apart and plug the dvd drive in again
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[01:28:46] <jl> hi, i'm trying to install SXDE with the console ttya option, but everytime i choose this option my keyboard doesn't work, any idea?
[01:29:16] <sommerfeld> ttya puts the console on the serial port
[01:30:08] <jl> sommerfeld that means that my keyboard should be at serial port?
[01:30:20] <flyingparchment> jl: you should have a serial terminal at the serial port
[01:30:30] <flyingparchment> jl: if  you're using a monitor and keyboard, don't select ttya or ttyb
[01:31:02] <sommerfeld> serial terminal, terminal server, service processor/system controller/lom/...
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[01:31:09] <jl> i'm trying to install SXDE on my laptop
[01:31:20] <flyingparchment> sommerfeld: i was simplifying ;)
[01:31:59] <jl> the reason i can't choose the default install option (developer edition) is because i only have 512 of ram
[01:32:02] <jl> :-(
[01:32:27] <jl> so... how can i install SXDE on my laptop then?
[01:33:18] <palowoda> Install the SXCE and than install the compilers manually.
[01:36:04] <jl> palowoda i was thinking to do that but according Sun install documentation the "express edition" installs additional client/server software that and more slowly, i'm right?
[01:36:45] <jl> or it's exactly the same than developer edition except for the dev tools?
[01:37:19] <Triskelios> jl: yes, it's identical except for the dev tools
[01:37:52] <palowoda> No it's the same thing.  The only whoptiee do with SXDE is the nwam automatic network configuration.  You can install the compilers after you install sxce. There is a script in the developers tools directory.
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[01:39:00] <jl> i see... so with sxce i will have some problem with my wireless connection?
[01:39:05] <palowoda> Sometimes I wonder if the SXDE vs SXCE causes more questions and issues than it solves.
[01:39:24] <palowoda> No you can still configure your wireless with dladmin.
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[01:39:27] <Triskelios> jl: no, you can enable nwam; it's just not by default
[01:40:28] <palowoda> We need Swartz in a box for OpenSolaris installs these days.
[01:40:50] <jl> please tell me how can i enable nwan?
[01:41:19] <Triskelios> palowoda: the real mistake might be deciding to try selling support contracts for SX (which is why SXDE exists in the first place since SX is a moving target)
[01:41:22] <JBeck> jl: man nwamd
[01:41:36] <palowoda> What contracts?
[01:42:22] <Triskelios> palowoda: http://developers.sun.com/sxde/support.jsp
[01:42:48] <jl> how much time does the installation takes? you know more or less
[01:42:50] <palowoda> So what do you get when you buy one.
[01:43:01] <palowoda> takes about 45 min.
[01:43:52] <palowoda> I mean you don't get any patches to SXDE.  Maybe just some advice.
[01:44:29] <wesolows> but the advice you get is really top notch
[01:44:39] <wesolows> like "never use patches"
[01:45:06] <jl> ok. thank you so much guys i guess i'm going to try sxce with vmware first (especially for the install part)
[01:45:23] <palowoda> Oh god vmware.
[01:45:41] <wesolows> well if you want a bad experience that's a great choice
[01:46:14] <palowoda> If your doing it for the first time try to simplify and not introduce other problems.
[01:46:20] <fredm> palowoda: is there an "Oh god" for parallels, too?
[01:46:38] <jl> i'm not plannig to use sxce with vmware of course, i just want to try the install thats all
[01:46:42] <palowoda> It's even Oh god for the native Xen.
[01:46:55] <palowoda> Though now you have no choice.
[01:47:08] <fredm> yuk
[01:47:58] <palowoda> They should have made everyone pay 1000.00 to get the SXDE version.  That would change the landscape.
[01:47:59] <jl> well thanks again you really helped me a lot!
[01:48:01] <fredm> i had the 6/07 sxde and tried to upgrade to 9/07. belched
[01:48:38] <fredm> then tried to install 9/07 and it gave up without a real reason
[01:48:49] <fredm> still talking parallels here
[01:49:01] <wesolows> it couldn't stand the thought of serving you
[01:49:12] <wesolows> but was too polite to say so
[01:49:13] <Fuzzy> parallels and solaris is kinda a pita
[01:49:20] <Fuzzy> vmware-fusion does better with solaris
[01:49:52] <mog> palowoda, your right it would change the landscape, basically revert to where solaris was being slowly replaced by gnu/linux systems
[01:50:22] <palowoda> mog: SXDE is doing a good job at that.
[01:50:39] <wesolows> I'm not sure what he meant exactly but SXDE is such a bad product that I'm more concerned it's giving Solaris a bad name.
[01:51:02] <mog> at least people are trying solaris, i mean before sxde i would have never put it on any of my boxes
[01:51:20] <wesolows> The Plain Old Solaris (old installer, no fancy gui install, no extra tools installation, no 23 different confusing names) is much better than SXDE.
[01:51:44] <wesolows> Before "SXDE" was "SXCE" which was basically the same damn thing except without all the stuff that doesn't work.
[01:51:54] <palowoda> That's my point we spend so much time explaining the issues between them.
[01:52:07] <wesolows> And before that we had a single easy name for "the Next Solaris" which was just Solaris Express, and it was great too.
[01:52:21] <hile_> i agree wesolows -- that's why I use CE when I'm doing stuff with nevada
[01:52:33] <wesolows> Early Access Good.  Open source Good.  Confusing mishmash of crapola released half-baked, Not Good.
[01:52:38] <mog> arent they going to go away with indiana?
[01:53:11] <wesolows> One would hope so.  Then maybe all the kiddies can stay at their Indiana table and we grown-ups can get on with our poker game over here in Solaris Land.
[01:53:22] <mog> ouch
[01:53:41] <palowoda> Indiana has a 5 year time schedule.
[01:53:49] <wesolows> (in truth I wish Indiana would go away and we - Sun - would just focus on making Solaris better)
[01:54:13] <mog> i think sun is worried about being replaced by gnu/linux and rightfully so
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[01:54:28] <wesolows> you're entitled to think whatever you like.
[01:54:35] <mog> they have lost loads of sales to it, not to mention new geeks learn gnu/linux instead of on solaris
[01:54:38] <wesolows> some people think they faked the moon landings.  *shrug*
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[01:55:07] <wesolows> sigh.  we've been over this history many times
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[01:55:18] <wesolows> high cost of SPARC, bad management with respect to x86 Solaris
[01:55:25] <wesolows> both problems long since alleviated
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[01:56:15] <mog> like you said some people think they faked the moon landing....
[01:56:56] <Triskelios> sxce/indiana/whatever exists to allow new development without disrupting S10, this development is going to happen whether or not you think indiana itself is a reactionary thing, there needs to be a vehicle for these changes
[01:57:14] <wesolows> I'm all for "approachability" improvements - more innovative features, open source, open development, early access, direct access to engineers, all that.  But devaluing the product just to seem hip is a losing strategy.
[01:57:57] <wesolows> "Oh look, $SHITBAG_PRODUCT took some of our business 5 years ago; let's make our product really shitty too and then we can win it back!"
[01:58:10] <palowoda> Triskelios: Just say Solaris is forked.
[01:58:16] <wesolows> S10 is unaffected anyway
[01:58:26] <wesolows> that's off in its own universe
[01:58:29] <wesolows> always has been
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[01:58:44] <wesolows> so whoever told you that was feeding you a load of bull
[01:58:51] <Triskelios> palowoda: nobody is arguing about that, it happened in the distant past
[02:00:05] <wesolows> you don't need something called indiana to do new development; Nevada is a minor release which permits almost unlimited changes.
[02:00:17] <wesolows> S10 was a minor release too
[02:01:37] <palowoda> distant past year right.
[02:01:44] <palowoda> s/year/yeah
[02:02:01] <wesolows> indeed
[02:02:12] <wesolows> the whole indiana thing is taking on an animal farm air
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[02:02:24] * wesolows is probably about to be historically revised
[02:02:39] <palowoda> It's a 5 year project. Everybody got it.
[02:02:56] <palowoda> Kick back have a beer.
[02:03:02] <sommerfeld> "two legs bad, four legs good?"
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[02:04:22] <wesolows> four legs ok, two legs ok, use however many legs you want but don't tell me how many I have to use
[02:05:34] <bda> Using OpenSolaris's revolutionary BioGenesis Technology..
[02:05:51] <Triskelios> palowoda: I'm referring to the nevada fork. for most osol projects "indiana" is a continuation
[02:06:26] <wesolows> Triskelios: Can I ask you a serious question: where did you hear/read this explanation?
[02:06:32] <palowoda> Can't even get the SXDE vs SXCE thing right.  What me worry. :)
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[02:09:33] <palowoda> wesolows: I think at the Indiana summit it was mentioned that Indiana would replace the Nevada model for a golden standard delivery and discontinuing the OpenSolaris train.
[02:09:43] <Triskelios> wesolows: from Stephen Hahn, and the work on pkg-discuss, for example (not counting the marketing guys)
[02:10:09] <wesolows> all right, thank you.
[02:10:18] <wesolows> Now I know whose office I need to show up in.
[02:10:33] <wesolows> Because none of that makes any sense whatsoever.
[02:11:07] <wesolows> But if Sun really wants to go out of business that badly, at least I can find out now that I need to start looking for work, rather than waiting until I get the pink slip.
[02:11:28] <palowoda> It would make sense in the long term.  But lets put some realistic time numbers on it.
[02:11:37] <wesolows> It makes no sense at all.
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[02:11:56] <wesolows> Discontinuing Solaris only makes sense if you never again want to have customers.
[02:12:01] <Triskelios> I don't see many changes as far as most projects are concerned. the work is currently directed at, installation and packaging, and marketing/branding
[02:12:04] <wesolows> Ending Solaris with S10 likewise.
[02:12:31] <palowoda> Sun has always changed Solaris slowly.  Indiana gives the impression it's changing faster than it really is.
[02:12:41] <wesolows> Indiana is not Solaris though.
[02:13:06] <palowoda> Well the propriietary bits are going to be an issue later on.
[02:13:18] <wesolows> And that's what's so damn infuriating about the whole thing.  The Indiana partisans want everyone to think it can replace Solaris, but it can't because it's a pile of shit.
[02:13:42] <palowoda> How can you boot without an opensource disk controller driver.
[02:13:58] <wesolows> If someone at Sun wants to make another distribution that appeals to a different possible user base, so be it - call it something else and don't pretend that it in any way replaces Solaris.
[02:13:59] <Triskelios> wesolows: Ian didn't seem to have a clear idea of how to handle the next Solaris release
[02:14:22] <wesolows> Triskelios: That he thinks that's for him to decide is the biggest mistake of all.
[02:15:11] <palowoda> The wierd part is all the stuff is going in OpenSolaris anyways.
[02:15:23] <palowoda> i.e. Solaris Express.
[02:15:34] <Triskelios> wesolows: it is entirely possible that it won't be
[02:15:35] <wesolows> OpenSolaris != Solaris Express
[02:16:31] <palowoda> Ok so the object is to get the so claimed Indiana projects intetraged into the OpenSolaris source and deliver it thorugh OpenSolaris Express.  Feel better?
[02:17:03] <wesolows> I'm glad that people want to do work in OpenSolaris.  They should.  But the whole plan seems bigger than that: 1) kill Solaris, 2) take over OpenSolaris and reshape it as a factory spitting out mere aggregations of Sun's code and other crap, 3) Put Ian in change of all of the above.
[02:17:24] <wesolows> If that's Sun's plan for long-term success, god help us all.
[02:17:39] <kjetilho> sorry to interrupt, but does Ian have a plan or outline published somewhere?
[02:17:41] <wesolows> There's never been such a thing as OpenSolaris Express either.
[02:17:51] <palowoda> We still have a problem explaining SXDE vs SXCE.
[02:18:08] <wesolows> Yes, we do.
[02:18:12] <wesolows> The answer is to kill SXDE
[02:18:23] <wesolows> and rename SXCE simply SX as it always was before.
[02:18:28] <kjetilho> only enthusiasts care anyway -- I don't think that's a huge problem
[02:19:33] <wesolows> kjetilho: Actually SX was an early access program that a lot of Solaris customers loved.  And if you start telling those customers that S10 is the end of the line for Solaris as they know it, they'll start looking at who to do business with after Sun.
[02:19:58] <wesolows> It's not "just about enthusiasts"
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[02:22:25] <kjetilho> wesolows: SX was popular since the time between Solaris 9 and 10 was so long
[02:22:50] <kjetilho> the lead time from SX to next S10 update is *much* shorter now
[02:22:58] <kjetilho> except for the desktop, of course
[02:23:21] <kjetilho> so I guess Sun Ray is the real "killer app" for SX in production use.
[02:24:11] <palowoda> Heh by the time the upgrade the Gnome version in S10 it will be EOF'ed.
[02:24:32] <LeftWing> SXCE makes a pretty good Sun Ray server at least.
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[02:25:20] <palowoda> Excuse me EOL'ed.
[02:25:48] <Triskelios> kjetilho: http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/indiana/documents/ - "problem statement" is sort of a checklist...
[02:26:06] <flyingparchment> hmm, php dtrace extension is making my php crash
[02:26:06] <palowoda> Sun Ray is killer hardware.  SunRay software is just a by product.
[02:26:25] <bda> Do you really think that suggesting to enterprise customers they run their banks, hospitals, etc, on a project whose primary goals are 1) to fit on a CD and 2) to be easy enough for Linux monkeys to install?
[02:26:44] <bda> Doesn't it seem more likely that whatever is developed for Indiana will get cherry-picked for Real Actual Solaris like what's going on with Nevada?
[02:26:59] <bda> (Or whatever the hell you want to call -HEAD)
[02:27:28] <bda> er, "is the plan" should have been in there somewhere.
[02:28:22] <kjetilho> bda: not fit on a single CD, only be sufficient to be usable and let the rest be easily downloadable
[02:29:07] <palowoda> Will blank CD's still be available in the Indiana timeframe?
[02:29:12] <bda> Heh.
[02:29:31] <flyingparchment> why would blank CDs not be available?  my cd player doesn't play dvds too well
[02:29:35] <kjetilho> I installed Ubuntu yesterday, but discovered I only had a spindle of 650 MB discs...
[02:29:54] <kjetilho> all their live-CDs are for 700 MB discs
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[02:30:01] <mog> eh
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[02:30:35] <kjetilho> luckily they have a mini.iso of 9 MiB which can pull everything down from the net.
[02:30:53] <echaz> hey, how do I burn a DVD on solaris???
[02:31:00] <palowoda> cdrw
[02:31:28] <Triskelios> flyingparchment: it's a tongue-in-cheek reference to the projected development time of indiana
[02:31:40] <kjetilho> Triskelios: I don't see anything very controversial in his "Problem Statement"
[02:32:02] <echaz> thx
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[02:33:15] <kjetilho> it's a bit worrying that there's no "PKG-8: Compatibility with SVR4 packages will be maintained", but why worry yet?
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[02:34:25] <kjetilho> wesolows: what is your issue with Indiana, if you can say it in public?
[02:35:52] <echaz> wow, it is MUCH easier than cdrecord!!!!
[02:36:15] <palowoda> Yeah kind of a no brainer.
[02:36:25] <Triskelios> echaz: it doesn't try to be a swiss army knife
[02:36:42] <Fuzzy> hey i'm trying to do svm raid 1 of my root drives, it told me to use metaroot for my / and that worked, now i'm trying to do /var but metaroot says it's not root.  Is there another command i need to use to update vfstab or do i need to do it by hand?
[02:37:05] 
[02:37:05] <Tempt> vi
[02:37:09] <Tempt> vi /etc/vfstab
[02:37:19] <Fuzzy> ok
[02:37:22] <echaz> ermmm...
[02:37:26] <echaz> xemacs /etc/vfstab
[02:37:29] <Fuzzy> is there any other files outside of vfstab i need to edit?
[02:37:34] <flyingparchment> metaroot is only needed because / is special, it needs an /etc/system entry
[02:37:38] <flyingparchment> other filesystems don't
[02:37:41] <Fuzzy> ok
[02:37:48] <kjetilho> Fuzzy: possibly your backup configuration
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[02:38:49] <Fuzzy> and i have to reboot each time i build a metadevice before i attach the slave if it's a running partition right?
[02:39:02] <Fuzzy> s/running/mounted/
[02:39:09] <flyingparchment> you need to remount it.. in case of /var, that probably involves a reboot
[02:39:15] <Fuzzy> ok
[02:39:20] <flyingparchment> doesn't the manual explain this? :)
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[02:39:37] <Fuzzy> the two howto's i'm working from don't talk about other mounted file systems very well
[02:39:45] <echaz> I would recommend a boot disk, so you don't have to modify your running partition fuzzy
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[02:40:27] <Fuzzy> ok
[02:40:31] <flyingparchment> Fuzzy: you don't need a howto, read the manual at docs.sun.com, it has a step-by-step guide on how to do this
[02:40:52] <Fuzzy> ok
[02:41:24] <Tempt> Honestly, this is pretty reasonable stuff
[02:41:37] <Tempt> just don't forget you have to reboot before attaching the other side of the mirror.
[02:41:44] <Fuzzy> yea
[02:41:48] <Fuzzy> it's sync'ing /var right now
[02:41:53] <Fuzzy> i have /home and swap to do next
[02:41:56] <Fuzzy> but i can unmount /home
[02:42:12] <flyingparchment> do them all at once and reboot once
[02:42:13] <kjetilho> and swap -d works fine in most cases
[02:42:20] <Fuzzy> ok
[02:43:42] <kjetilho> hmm, looks like /var/run/name_service_door is kind of a showstopper for umounting /var
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[02:47:07] <sommerfeld> what should work is to create a single-element mirror of the slice containing var, edit /etc/vfstab to change /dev/dsk/c*t*d*s to /dev/md/dsk/d*, and then reboot.
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[02:47:16] <sommerfeld> on reboot, it will mount /var from the metadisk
[02:47:21] <sommerfeld> then you can add mirrors
[02:47:35] <sommerfeld> this is what metaroot does for the root partition
[02:49:55] <kjetilho> sommerfeld: why don't you just spell it out?  we are all grownups here
[02:50:06] <kjetilho> /dev/dsk/cocktards.  there, I said it.
[02:50:19] <sommerfeld> pththpt
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[02:52:28] <Fuzzy> ok so the next question is how do i mirror the grub config onto the 2nd disk? is this documented in the manual or is there somewhere else i should read up on this?
[02:52:58] <Fuzzy> nm i found it
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[02:55:13] <yongsun> guys, do you know how could I tell if a NIC driver is GLDv3 or v2?
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[02:57:03] <movement> yongsun: dladm show-link
[02:57:53] <movement> it'll say 'legacy' if it's GLDv2 (IIRC)
[02:58:46] <yongsun> movement, thank you so much :)
[03:02:15] <Fuzzy> schweet looks like i did this right
[03:02:21] * Fuzzy hugs solaris
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[03:04:21] <yongsun> movement, yes, you are right, I just found that on the crossbow FAQ
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[03:04:29] <yongsun> movement, http://opensolaris.org/os/project/crossbow/faq/
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[03:08:00] <Fuzzy> ok so the million dollar question is, if i have rebooted, removed the primary drive, booted on the backup, shut it down, and reinstalled the primary, booted it, and metastat says to use metareplace, how do i tell it to use the primary drive again?
[03:08:29] <elektronkind> metastat -e
[03:08:33] <Fuzzy> ah ok
[03:08:41] <elektronkind> metastat -e d<whatever> c?t?d?s?
[03:08:46] <Fuzzy> ok
[03:08:57] <elektronkind> where d = the mirror metadev, not the subdisk
[03:09:00] <Fuzzy> says illegal option
[03:09:04] <elektronkind> err
[03:09:07] <elektronkind> metareplace I mean
[03:09:11] <Fuzzy> ok
[03:09:18] <elektronkind> metareplace -e d<whatever> c?t?d?s?
[03:09:26] <elektronkind> sorry, brain fart
[03:09:37] <Fuzzy> np
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[03:11:05] <Fuzzy> sweet
[03:11:12] <Fuzzy> now it's time for some zfs and xen
[03:11:14] <Fuzzy> :]
[03:11:19] <elektronkind> :) cool!
[03:11:36] <hile_> hey electronkind
[03:11:41] <Fuzzy> actually i should probally config the net first
[03:11:43] <elektronkind> hey man, what's shakin
[03:12:18] <Fuzzy> do i have to use crossbow to setup a pair of nics in active failover mode or is there some other subsystem i need to use?
[03:12:34] <elektronkind> dladm, yes, use that
[03:12:42] <Fuzzy> ok
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[03:13:16] <Fuzzy> is there a good howto you know for this subject?
[03:13:23] <Fuzzy> google has a bunch of hits
[03:13:31] <Fuzzy> but they seem kinda cryptic to my needs
[03:13:36] <sommerfeld> solaris has several different network redundancy mechanisms.  dladm manages link aggregations (typically multiple links to the same switch)
[03:14:00] <elektronkind> sommerfeld's right. there is also IP multipath
[03:14:01] <sommerfeld> ifconfig is used to manage ipmp (which allows for multiple links to multiple switches in the same subnet)
[03:14:30] <Fuzzy> right now i'm looking for same switch multi link
[03:14:49] <sommerfeld> and for the truly dedicated who prefer dijkstra's algorithm to radia's, there's ospf-mp
[03:15:09] <elektronkind> your switch also has to support it.. 802.3q I think... or it could be some other 802.3 standard... but your switch needs to support it
[03:15:27] <Fuzzy> i might have to wait until get that foundry
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[03:15:29] <elektronkind> I think q might be the vlan trunk standard
[03:15:40] <Fuzzy> i think q is vlan
[03:15:49] <sommerfeld> q is vlan and qos tagging
[03:15:54] <Fuzzy> ok
[03:16:38] <sommerfeld> (if it was just vlans you could have 64k vlans instead of 4k)
[03:16:41] <elektronkind> ah... 802.3ad
[03:16:50] <elektronkind> that's link aggregation
[03:16:53] <trs80> brussels is looking at unifying all the network config under one tool http://www.opensolaris.org/os/project/brussels/
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[03:17:03] <sommerfeld> s/network/link/
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[03:17:30] <sommerfeld> at least in initial stages
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[03:17:47] <Fuzzy> isn't crossbow supposed to solve all of this?
[03:18:36] <sommerfeld> crossbow is about resource allocation and virtualization
[03:18:55] <sommerfeld> taking a single link and slicing it into different pieces for different zones or virtual machines
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[03:28:03] <Fuzzy> is xen in open solaris requiring crossbow?
[03:28:10] <movement> no
[03:28:15] <Fuzzy> ok good
[03:28:17] <movement> we took some parts of crossbow and used them
[03:28:27] <movement> but there's no administrative part yet.
[03:28:51] <Fuzzy> now i used dladm -d iprb0 -d iprb1 1 from the man page
[03:29:06] <Fuzzy> i use ifconfig -a and i don't see a new device outside of lo0
[03:29:19] <Fuzzy> or any device outside of lo0 for that matter
[03:29:24] <Fuzzy> am i missing something?
[03:29:26] <kjetilho> can I pass boot arguments from Grub which are visible in a JumpStart?
[03:30:17] <Fuzzy> dladm show-aggr is showing something
[03:30:52] <elektronkind> it's showing you your inner conscience
[03:30:58] <Fuzzy> cute
[03:33:55] <Fuzzy> oh yea ifconfig aggr1 plumb
[03:35:39] <flyingparchment> kjetilho: if i understand you, sure.. just add them to the kernel line as normal
[03:36:09] <kjetilho> flyingparchment: how do I get at them in a script?
[03:36:31] <flyingparchment> kjetilho: think they'll show in eeprom
[03:36:36] <flyingparchment> (not sure about that though)
[03:37:01] <kjetilho> so I'll need to usurp a valid eeprom attribute?
[03:37:20] <kjetilho> what I actually want to do, is to have one pxegrub entry for pkg install, and one for flar install.
[03:37:29] <kjetilho> without requiring different miniroot-images
[03:38:10] <kjetilho> (that's what I do today -- a magic file exists in one miniroot, and this signals flar installation :)
[03:38:25] <flyingparchment> kjetilho: i'd try creating a new one first
[03:38:56] <Fuzzy> so how do i tell dladm to save it's current setup?
[03:39:26] <Fuzzy> and i assume that i can't use sys-unconfig to config the aggr1 link, so where would i store the information for that?
[03:39:54] <flyingparchment> "Just click the links in the file list below to start your download." < awesome, but there's no link (!)
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[04:38:21] <cub-> any SAN guru here can help me with 3510 luns not seen from the server side?  There are 3 servers connecting to the 3510, but only 1 sees it in format and cfgadm -al
[04:38:51] <FuzzyB> do you need to run devfsadn?
[04:38:52] <FuzzyB> devfsadm
[04:39:40] <jmcp_> cub-: have you added the port-wwns of the other two servers to the list of allowed wwns on the se3510?
[04:39:49] <jmcp_> ie, have you got the lun mapping / lun masking correct?
[04:40:11] <kjetilho> flyingparchment: finally was able to test it -- eeprom does not include kernel arguments, only those in EEPROM or bootenv.rc
[04:40:29] <jmcp_> cub-: check your switch zoning as well
[04:42:44] <kjetilho> cub-: here's a very nice article on zoning and masking etc if you're just getting your feet wet: http://www.sun.com/bigadmin/features/hub_articles/san_fundamentals.pdf
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[04:43:04] <cub-> jmcp_: it's directly connected to the back of the 3510 , no switch
[04:43:06] <kjetilho> not directly related to your question, though
[04:43:22] <cub-> ok, i'm downloading it, thanks kjetilho
[04:43:28] <jmcp_> cub-: and you're wondering why your other two hosts can't see the luns?
[04:43:46] <cub-> jmcp_: yup, they're all connected to the back of the 3510
[04:44:09] <jmcp_> cub-: then you're not using a supported configuration
[04:44:43] * trs80 liveupgrades to b75
[04:44:44] <cub-> actually, only FC2 and FC3 seem  to work from the 3510.  Is there a way to enable other ports , like from FC0 through FC5 to work ?
[04:44:54] <cub-> I can telnet to the 3510
[04:45:49] <jmcp_> cub-: do you have an FC switch?
[04:46:16] <jmcp_> cub-: and have you read the doco for the array about how to configure it?
[04:46:37] <cub-> i don't have an FC switch
[04:46:46] <cub-> I think i should invest in an FC switch
[04:46:52] <cub-> cuz there are 3 servers connecting to it
[04:47:05] <cub-> it's going to be a 3 node  RAC
[04:47:07] <cub-> oracle
[04:47:24] <jmcp_> cub-: if you don't have an FC switch then you will not be able to successfully run RAC
[04:47:30] <jbk> well if you're doing rac
[04:47:33] <jmcp_> let alone share the luns between hosts
[04:47:36] <jbk> you should be able to afford a fc switch :)
[04:47:47] <cub-> is there an inexpensive switch you can recommend ?
[04:47:48] <jmcp_> cub-: are you trying to do the HW for RAC on the cheap? because that way lies SERIOUS pain
[04:47:50] <sommerfeld> 3510 raid?  ports 0,1,4,5 are for hosts; ports 2,3 are for expansion
[04:48:27] <jmcp_> sommerfeld: that's assuming that you're not wanting each attached server to see the same luns
[04:48:41] <cub-> sommerfeld: the server that's connected to either port 2 or 3, can see the 3510
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[04:48:55] <cub-> the servers that are connected to other ports, aren't seeing it
[04:49:04] <jmcp_> cub-: you haven't read the doco
[04:49:07] <sommerfeld> so.. that conflicts with what i've read in the documentation.
[04:49:23] <sommerfeld> i suspect that the server connected to ports 2 & 3 is .. looking at the guts of the 3510
[04:49:29] <sommerfeld> i.e., the raw disks.
[04:49:48] <sommerfeld> while the raid controller isn't exporting any disks yet.
[04:49:53] <sommerfeld> err, "luns"
[04:50:00] <cub-> sommerfeld: actually, that's true .... it sees all individual disks of the 3510 instead of the luns
[04:50:51] <jmcp_> cub-: you should really go and read the doco *first* and then hook up your hosts to the se3510
[04:50:56] <sommerfeld> cub: unplug the server from ports 2&3, go spend some quality time with the 3510 documentation, and hook up the 3510 serial console and ethernet
[04:51:12] <cub-> ok, is there any FC switch that's under $3k ?
[04:51:23] <cub-> I think i need that first
[04:51:33] <jmcp_> cub-: ebay is your friend
[04:51:46] <cub-> sure, any brand /model you can recommend ?
[04:51:59] <jmcp_> brocade or qlogic are the big hitters
[04:52:02] <jmcp_> I've used both, don't have any preference
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[04:52:19] <cub-> qlogic is a big name for sure
[04:52:34] <cub-> since i have qlogic fc cards on the servers
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[04:53:11] <jmcp_> cub-: "qlogic fiber switch" reveals http://computers.search.ebay.com/qlogic-fiber-switch_Computers-Networking_W0QQ_trksidZm37QQfromZR40QQsacatZ58058QQssPageNameZRC0021
[04:54:25] <sommerfeld> jmcp: so, possibly stupid q: why couldn't he export one lun via multiple ports on the 3510?
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[04:55:19] <jmcp_> nothing to stop him doing that (though I'd never advise it, generally), it's just the back story which makes it difficult - cub- wants to run RAC, so each node has to write to it
[04:56:00] <cub-> yeah i want to run oracle rac
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[04:56:47] <cub-> each server has 2 FC cards on it, each card has 2 ports.  To have 3 servers connecting to it, I need 12 port FC switch, right ?
[04:57:20] <kjetilho> jmcp_: so if there are no more than 4 nodes in the RAC setup it should be OK?  (won't be protected agains FC card failure or someone pulling a cable of course)
[04:57:26] <cub-> but I shouldn't limit myself with the maximum of 12 port in case a port is dead, so I should buy the 16 port one instead.
[04:57:41] <sommerfeld> cub: do you really need to use both ports of each card?
[04:58:04] <jmcp_> kjetilho: perhaps, but if you hired me to architect such a system you'd find a switch in there damned fast
[04:58:05] <jamesd>  cub- i would vote for   2x 8 port switches full redunancy...
[04:58:15] <cub-> sommerfeld: actually, that's true .... if I have 2 cards per system, no need to have both ports connecting to the switch.
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[04:59:11] <sommerfeld> kjetilho: hmm.  the 3510 manuals showed 4 servers all dual-attached to a dual-controller 3510.
[04:59:19] <kjetilho> it's very nice to be able to have two cables simply so that you can recable without downtime
[04:59:22] <cub-> jamesd: it's beta, i don't need redundant switch
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[05:00:02] <kjetilho> although you don't need to have it plugged in all the time for that
[05:00:05] <cub-> sommerfeld: wow, for real ... that's attempting
[05:00:18] <jamesd> cub-, and you will probably find that 2  8 sport switches are cheaper than  1 16 port switch.
[05:00:49] <kjetilho> mmm, you don't need as fast a backbone
[05:00:55] <kjetilho> *backplane
[05:00:58] <jmcp_> you might not find 8port switches with 2Gb/sec interfaces
[05:01:14] <cub-> i can do 12 port
[05:01:48] <cub-> there....i'm set  http://cgi.ebay.com/QLOGIC-SB520012A-12-PORT-FIBRE-CHANNEL-SWITCH-SB520012A_W0QQitemZ120173083740QQihZ002QQcategoryZ11175QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
[05:03:11] <sommerfeld> the other thing is that if you are creating a cluster to be fault tolerant, a single switch becomes a SPOF
[05:06:11] <cub-> well, the RAC is in place to ensure the code is tested in beta that is close to the production
[05:06:28] <cub-> not really for fault tolerant
[05:06:49] <baijiutong> btw, topic's out of date :)
[05:07:06] *** sommerfeld changes topic to "Latest SXCE 75 | Latest ON 75 | Starter kits: http://get.opensolaris.org | Clipboard: http://opensolaris.pastebin.ca/ | Twitter: http://twitter.com/opensolaris"
[05:07:13] <baijiutong> SXCE 75 out as of yesterday
[05:07:30] <baijiutong> nice
[05:08:12] <kjetilho> flyingparchment: I found the trick, /sbin/getbootargs :-)
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[05:17:49] <nasser> where I can find Guide to install ATI Driver on Solaris ?
[05:23:43] <Triskelios> nasser: you have to use the radeon driver that comes with it (unless you have a very new radeon, in which case you should compile radeonhd)
[05:24:47] <nasser> <Triskelios> ???? I can`t install ATI Driver(fglrx) ???
[05:25:12] <Triskelios> fglrx only exists for linux
[05:25:53] <nasser> ummm
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[05:26:17] <nasser> solaris isn`t linux ?
[05:26:32] <jmcp_> nasser: are you really asking that question?
[05:29:47] <mog> hehl
[05:30:12] <nasser> I never used it
[05:30:55] <nasser> but I think Solaris Like fedora and kubuntu, it use KDE!
[05:33:21] * dlg cough
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[05:38:52] <kjetilho> nasser: Solaris uses GNOME, although KDE is available from a third-party site called Blastwave
[05:39:49] <libkeiser> irix has ls, so it must be linux!
[05:40:09] <kjetilho> Solaris doesn't have fsm, so it isn't UNIX :-(
[05:45:20] <rockets> kjetilho, didn't you know, SunOS is just a modification of the NT 4 kernel.
[05:45:21] <Triskelios> kjetilho: yeah, it doesn't show me all the files. wtf! =(
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[05:45:57] * Triskelios adds fsv to spec-files-extra
[05:46:00] <kjetilho> not sure if you guys took the reference, but it was Jurassic Park
[05:46:30] * bda let it slide.
[05:46:48] <Triskelios> kjetilho: "this is UNIX. it shows me all the files!" or something
[05:47:09] <kjetilho> no, "This is Unix, I know this!"
[05:47:27] <bda> Zoom! Woosh! /usr!
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[05:48:16] <kjetilho> to be pedantic, IMDb says "Lex: It's a UNIX system! I know this!"
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[06:28:32] <flyingparchment> common-agent-container-1 is a really annoying name for a service :)
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[06:41:21] <bda> http://architectfantasy.com/?p=1
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[06:58:41] <kjetilho> flyingparchment: processes shouldn't have names longer than 15 characters
[06:58:58] <kjetilho> it's so confusing when pgrep doesn't find them... (without -f)
[06:59:57] <kjetilho> I wouldn't mind if the kernel increased this limitation, though ...
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[07:37:00] <sparcdr> :o
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[07:40:53] <sparcdr> Starter kits caught up with latest SXCE?
[07:42:12] <e^ipi> starter kits are SXDE aren't they?
[07:42:22] <e^ipi> SXDE is just an old version of sxce
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[07:42:36] <sparcdr> no
[07:42:38] <sparcdr> they are SXCE
[07:42:49] <sparcdr> SXDE is acquired straight from sun.com
[07:43:22] <sparcdr> next SXDE is January, probably based on B76
[07:43:30] <e^ipi> i'm relatively certain the starter kits are just SXDE
[07:43:42] <sparcdr> check for yourself if you doubt me
[07:43:47] <e^ipi> or that build of SXCE anyways, the two are indistinguishable
[07:43:55] <sparcdr> I have a starter kit here, old one, it's SXCE + Belenix
[07:44:22] <sparcdr> also have three SXDE's all requested from a sun.de domain
[07:46:08] <sparcdr> http://www2.sun.de/dct/forms/reg_us_2307_228_0.jsp (SXDE) http://www.opensolaris.org/kits/ (SXCE)
[07:46:13] <sparcdr> "The DVD includes the following distributions: Solaris Express (Community Edition), Nexenta, Belenix and Schillix."
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[07:48:31] <palowoda> SXDE is on every build of Nevada which includes SXCE.
[07:49:02] <sparcdr> the distribution
[07:49:12] <sparcdr> I'm talking media here
[07:49:49] <palowoda> Well if your not connected yeah your bound to slow media delivery.
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[07:51:01] <sparcdr> I am connected, but as you probably don't know.  I've said it in the past.  Downloading is quota bound for 3G and Satellite customers.  For me, I have a 3 hour unmetered period, starting at midnight, it's actually just as fast to get the media.  They say 3 weeks, I get it in 4 days.
[07:51:22] <palowoda> One of these days somebody will put OS distribution DVD in vending machines.
[07:51:25] <sparcdr> Have enough stuff to download anyways
[07:51:31] <sparcdr> that's an odd concept palowoda
[07:51:56] <sparcdr> Trojan brand OpenSolaris media in bathroom dispensers
[07:52:43] <sparcdr> Buy two cokes, get one OS dvd, FREE!
[07:52:45] <palowoda> Fear and Loathing in LA.
[07:52:54] <FuzzyB> hehe
[07:53:09] <palowoda> Really it would be cool to get software from a vending machine.
[07:53:54] <sparcdr> yeah
[07:54:39] <sparcdr> You wanna know something scary?  I'm closer than you'd think to the fires in Southern California.  The two largest ones are right next to me.  Harris and Witch.  Oddly they didn't burn my way because of the wind, plenty of fuel.  Power went out for a day, 2mln kwatts of power was lost.  Ironically my sub-par internet connection uses eastern satellites, and I was one of the few in the region with internet.
[07:54:53] <sparcdr> I'm talking 5 miles here.
[07:55:24] <sparcdr> you've probably followed it.  1 billion in damages
[07:55:51] <palowoda> I think Garrett is down there also.
[07:56:24] <jmcp_> yeah, he was talking about it yesterday
[07:56:36] <sparcdr> I was curious about the OS kit because as I explained, I'm quota bound.  I suspect they are outdated due to mass production, they are pressed.
[07:56:53] <sparcdr> I wanted to try out xVM but you can't get the bits individually now.
[07:57:42] <palowoda> I have a place up at Lake Almanor and the Plumas fire got to within 1 mile of my place.  Scary stuff.
[07:57:44] <sparcdr> binaries that is, I still have ON 75 and xVM, which is more trouble than it's worth, better to just get newer media and upgrade.
[07:57:52] <sparcdr> ouch
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[07:59:32] <sparcdr> Harris fire burned around 300,000 acres, something like 300 square miles.  The Witch Fire burned parts of Ramona, and went into the indian reservation by/at the Palomar observatory.  Around here, there's many reservations, they constitute most of this location, everything around me is one.
[08:00:07] <sparcdr> Ramona is the closest medium-sized town from me, about 20 mile drive, straight line of about 8 miles.
[08:00:22] <sparcdr> which reminds me
[08:00:35] <sparcdr> http://www.sparcdr.com/images/WFireSD_001.jpg
[08:00:44] <sparcdr> out my window yesterday
[08:01:39] <sparcdr> looks like an a-bomb went off
[08:01:49] <palowoda> The big problem you guys have down there is the wind.  The fire travels too fast.  Up in the mountains it slower but the fuel is bigger.
[08:02:11] <sparcdr> I was getting 70-90mph winds
[08:02:26] <sparcdr> they've died down, but for 4 days no aircraft except federally authorized could fly, it was that bad
[08:02:52] <sparcdr> for all of those days the one next to me burned with 0% containment
[08:03:13] <e^ipi> how did these fires start?
[08:03:18] <e^ipi> just regular old forest fires?
[08:03:36] <e^ipi> seems late in the year for that
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[08:04:34] <sparcdr> yes
[08:04:39] <sparcdr> no it's common
[08:04:45] <sparcdr> it's very dry aorund here
[08:04:52] <sparcdr> the winds are also common
[08:04:59] <sparcdr> it happened last year, half the intensity though
[08:05:38] <sparcdr> the fires in (2004?) here almost consumed where I live now.  I believe all but one of those was arson.
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[08:05:44] <sparcdr> These are all natural as far as anyone knows
[08:05:53] <sparcdr> they say "investigating" still
[08:05:58] <sparcdr> www.calfires.com
[08:06:41] <WickedWicky> morning all
[08:06:50] <sparcdr> the large one is 10% contained now.  the one next to me is unknown containment, it doesn't say.
[08:06:56] <sparcdr> hi WickedWicky, being wicked today?
[08:07:12] <e^ipi> every once in a while our okanagan valley gets burned pretty bad. they're in the interior
[08:07:30] <WickedWicky> sparcdr: always
[08:07:36] <sparcdr> 196,420 acres for the one that concerns me
[08:07:37] <sparcdr> :(
[08:07:44] <WickedWicky> actually I am in the wicked process of looking for documentation regarding cspire
[08:07:46] <e^ipi> terrain's really dry ( some parts are desert) with some parts (the inhabited parts) full of bigass trees
[08:07:56] <sparcdr> cspire?
[08:08:03] <e^ipi> the pine beetles came a few years ago, so a lot of the trees were tinder
[08:08:07] <sparcdr> That's where I'm at
[08:08:09] <WickedWicky> sparcdr: yea
[08:08:12] <sparcdr> >:<
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[08:08:54] <WickedWicky> talking about the fires in CA?
[08:08:59] <WickedWicky> mogguh logic
[08:09:01] <sparcdr> yes
[08:09:14] <WickedWicky> are they under control now, or?
[08:09:24] <sparcdr> the largest one is within 5mi of me
[08:09:25] <sparcdr> no
[08:09:28] <WickedWicky> shit
[08:09:30] <sparcdr> not the Witch
[08:09:37] <sparcdr> http://www.calfires.com/
[08:09:48] <logic> WickedWicky: Morning
[08:09:56] <logic> WickedWicky: i need some coffee :P
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[08:10:18] <sparcdr> :< me three feel like junk.  cofee is awesome!
[08:10:21] * sparcdr shakes violently
[08:10:54] <WickedWicky> where about are you sparcdr?
[08:10:58] <sparcdr> excuse me, I'm a nutcase
[08:11:16] <WickedWicky> yea, logic and I are dutch, we'll get along
[08:11:17] <sparcdr> Zip code 92070, mailing city is Santa Ysabel.  Which is indicated on that page.
[08:11:25] * logic goes to work, speak to you guys later
[08:11:41] <WickedWicky> I'll be off in a bit as well, werkse!
[08:11:56] <logic> WickedWicky: jij ook :) tot later
[08:11:59] <sparcdr> I'll be wasting my brain cycles
[08:12:14] <sparcdr> have a nice time.
[08:12:25] <WickedWicky> I hope they'll find a way to control this :(
[08:12:40] <sparcdr> heh
[08:12:45] <sparcdr> 16 of them total in one week
[08:12:58] <sparcdr> they have unknown containment on the one I'm next to
[08:13:03] <sparcdr> but the wind has prevented it from coming my way
[08:13:10] <WickedWicky> lucky
[08:13:12] <sparcdr> I'm stuck inbetween most of them
[08:13:17] <sparcdr> but they wont touch me
[08:13:20] <sparcdr> cause I'm leet
[08:13:21] <sparcdr> >:D
[08:13:37] <WickedWicky> ipf block quick
[08:13:50] <sparcdr> block WickedWicky from coffee quick
[08:13:58] <WickedWicky> now you're just being mean :P
[08:14:15] <sparcdr> I'm sorry, you're not worthy of godlike substances.
[08:14:20] <WickedWicky> WHAT?!
[08:14:31] <WickedWicky> this is passed mean, this is.... BWUUUAAAAAA
[08:14:59] <WickedWicky> but serious, I hope you'll be safe where you're are
[08:15:11] <sparcdr> your name reminds me of a wicker chair.  Last time I checked they were burned by anti-witch groups in Massachusetts.  Maybe I'm just stuck back during the Salem Wicked Witch of the East trials.
[08:15:28] <WickedWicky> Actually my nick is inspired by Wicky the viking
[08:15:29] <sparcdr> I'm more safe than most given my location.
[08:15:33] <sparcdr> oh
[08:15:34] <WickedWicky> a silly cartoon from my youth
[08:15:43] <razrX> lol WickedWicky
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[08:15:50] <sparcdr> nuts to you.  old fart!
[08:16:08] <WickedWicky> hey razrX ;-)
[08:16:12] <sparcdr> never heard of it actually
[08:16:21] <razrX> lo m8
[08:16:23] <WickedWicky> I don't think vikings made it to the US :P
[08:16:29] <sparcdr> they did
[08:16:36] <sparcdr> they were the first on American soil
[08:16:45] <WickedWicky> vikings?
[08:16:56] <sparcdr> look it up, your history has been poluted by columbus
[08:16:57] <sparcdr> yes
[08:16:57] <WickedWicky> impressive considering what they used as boats
[08:17:09] <sparcdr> actually I think it was the ice bridges
[08:17:16] <WickedWicky> yea, that makes more sense
[08:17:39] <sparcdr> our original settlers were infected with stds, gave natives small pox
[08:18:07] <sparcdr> they paint a foo foo bunny portait of people who didn't intend on finding what they found.  route to asia, I think not.
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[08:18:14] <sparcdr> route to retarded politics, yes
[08:18:16] <e^ipi> europe -> iceland -> greenland -> canada and the US via viking ships is impressive, but not impossible
[08:18:25] <sparcdr> actually
[08:18:32] <sparcdr> russia/alaska
[08:18:49] <e^ipi> was it the eastern route?
[08:18:52] <sparcdr> if that's what you mean by europe
[08:18:52] <e^ipi> *shrug*
[08:19:13] <sparcdr> vikings and chinese mixed, go figure
[08:19:14] <e^ipi> wait, why would they have landed in newfoundland then?
[08:19:31] <WickedWicky> must be a mistake of them
[08:19:37] <WickedWicky> since not even canadians want to be found in NF
[08:19:44] <sparcdr> so did asians, and ... hmm = russian
[08:19:47] <sparcdr> cant remember
[08:20:06] <sparcdr> iFoundNewLand iAnnoying iUse iStuff (TM)
[08:20:21] <e^ipi> sparcdr: if you look at a lot of canadian natives ( as in, native... first nation... people what were here before whitey) it's an amazing resemblance to mongolian/tibetan features
[08:20:31] <sparcdr> yeah
[08:20:32] <sparcdr> I know
[08:20:41] <WickedWicky> I'm gonna catch my bus
[08:20:42] <WickedWicky> ttyl!
[08:20:45] <sparcdr> the vikings did come over the bearing straight
[08:20:46] * WickedWicky &
[08:20:50] <sparcdr> I believe that was it
[08:21:07] <sparcdr> you no background yourself >:o.  pkill -9 WickedWicky
[08:21:22] <e^ipi> in fact, I'm relatively certain that if you took a coast salish or tshimshian person and a mongolian and put them next to each other, most people wouldn't be able to tell the difference
[08:21:34] <sparcdr> hmm
[08:21:52] <sparcdr> im Dutch, French, Irish, and English myself
[08:22:08] <e^ipi> im german and a different sort of german by heritage
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[08:22:28] <fendel> sparcdr: The vikings came from "viking land": Norway, Denmark, Iceland, Sweden, Greenland. Not far from Greenland to Canada/US
[08:22:29] <e^ipi> ( dad's from dusseldorf, mom's parents were russian mennonites )
[08:22:30] <sparcdr> supposedly I have german in me, don't see it.
[08:22:37] <sparcdr> fendel, right
[08:22:46] <ramusolaris> hi
[08:23:09] <e^ipi> mennonite == usually german, dutch, swiss or the likes ... family tree isn't really traceable that far back
[08:23:50] <ramusolaris> hi this ramu chating from chennai
[08:23:52] <sparcdr> Liger, original said like (Lee-Jah-ayy) with different spelling.  before that ryerse, which became ryerson here
[08:23:57] <ramusolaris> from india
[08:24:11] <sparcdr> if that points you in the right direction where I'm from
[08:24:40] <fendel> e^ipi: I guess this kind of stuff only can be proved by DNA studies. My guess is that there are a lot of history in east and north-east Asia that is wrong
[08:25:01] <sparcdr> good thing I'm all western european
[08:25:02] <sparcdr> >:<
[08:25:24] <e^ipi> i'm pretty sure even the DNA record agrees that natives from at least western canada originate in asia
[08:25:29] <sparcdr> excuse me, I'm nuts
[08:25:31] <fendel> e^ipi: I agree
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[08:25:49] <sparcdr> so.. hmm
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[08:26:06] <sparcdr> I heard sicilians were black and middle easstern
[08:26:09] <sparcdr> *eastern
[08:26:13] <fendel> e^ipi: But internaly around China is a different storry. The Chinese do not like some of the ideas the historicans have. DNA can help here
[08:26:48] <sparcdr> my dns owns your dna
[08:26:49] <sparcdr> >:o
[08:27:42] <e^ipi> sparcdr: don't tell them that, the mob'll have you wearing cement booties at the bottom of the east river faster than you can say "polymerase chain reaction and gel electrophoresis"
[08:28:02] <sparcdr> hahaha
[08:28:46] * sparcdr shrugs the truth hurts
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[08:31:17] <sparcdr> brb
[08:32:31] <jmcp_> e^ipi: damn you for bringing back proteome analysis terms to my consciousness!
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[08:33:27] <e^ipi> they're good terms to know anyways...
[08:33:52] <sparcdr> praise bob
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[08:36:42] * tsp thought they were math terms or something
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[08:38:27] <e^ipi> no, PCR is a biology term... it's for when you want to make a lot of copies of a DNA sample out of a few copies of it
[08:38:57] <e^ipi> gel electrophoresis is when you want to analyze them in certain ways
[08:39:04] <tsp> ah
[08:39:28] <tsp> e^ipi: How do you learn this stuff? Those seem like rather odd terms to pick up
[08:39:39] <e^ipi> you can actually perform both of them in your kitchen, albeit with less success than a proper lab
[08:39:54] <e^ipi> few biology classes here and there as electives
[08:40:07] <e^ipi> *shrug*
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[08:42:17] <e^ipi> though, you'd have to get some temp-stable DNA polymerase and some deoxyribonucleotide triphosphates and some primers to do it in your kitchen
[08:42:34] <e^ipi> but you can make friends with a biology grad student that can hook you up
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[08:42:55] <tsp> biology sounds strange
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[08:43:25] * flyingparchment hates on libtool a bit
[08:43:30] * tsp thinks that school doesn't really teach you anything - it's just useless research paper after paper after essay, at least at my college
[08:43:42] <e^ipi> I like it... if I weren't so far along in my degree already ( as in, I have no electives left ) i might consider getting a double major
[08:44:02] <e^ipi> maybe I'll pick up a second degree in the future or smthn
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[08:44:40] <e^ipi> if you're not learning anything, either you've already taught yourself the material independently and are just going through for the piece of paper, or your program sucks
[08:45:18] <WickyBus> so tsp, which one is it? :P
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[08:45:55] <tsp> hmm, not sure
[08:46:13] <tsp> I just find that research papers and essays don't seem to do anything, its just writing random stuff to give to your teachers to pass the course
[08:46:19] <e^ipi> what program are you in?
[08:46:34] <tsp> I was in a computer studies program, forgot the name, but took this semester off
[08:47:34] <tsp> I have a lot more fun playing with my own boxes, unix and everything else as opposed to learning how to use ms office which is a pile of junk
[08:47:48] <e^ipi> computer studies?
[08:48:08] <e^ipi> so, it's probably your program that's crap
[08:48:19] <tsp> e^ipi: It was going to end up in a programming course eventually, but predictably on .net
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[08:48:46] <e^ipi> meh, programming course ...
[08:48:49] <e^ipi> means to an end
[08:49:00] <e^ipi> a proper CS program should teach you the science of computing
[08:49:30] <e^ipi> after the first year, programming should be used simply as a tool to examine topics in a certain subset of mathematics
[08:49:45] * tsp hates math, but likes computers
[08:49:55] <e^ipi> because ultimately, you can teach a monkey to write C... you don't need a 4 year degree for it
[08:50:05] <sparcdr> xD
[08:50:10] <e^ipi> 6 month or 1 year of vocational training and you can spit out a hacker...
[08:50:19] <sparcdr> i can teach myself to drink coffee
[08:50:20] <sparcdr> and i won
[08:50:22] <sparcdr> :D
[08:50:50] <tsp> The only math I've been exposed to this far is high school level math, which I'm guessing is quite different from CS math
[08:51:08] <e^ipi> if you never learn algorithm analysis and discrete mathematics, you've been shortchanged & you'll not be a good programmer... you may be competent at turning steps of what to do in to code, but that's the end of it
[08:51:51] <e^ipi> a "good enough" algorithm often becomes an abysmal algorithm given a large enough data set
[08:51:56] <sparcdr> you can thank our overpriced school systems for that, and inefficient primary learning school teaching methods
[08:52:22] <quasi> http://www.news.com/8301-13580_3-9803882-39.html - watch out netapp
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[08:52:40] <sparcdr> and crowded schools, oh and lack of finances, and computer ignorant teaching
[08:52:54] <e^ipi> sparcdr: that's the thing...
[08:53:04] <e^ipi> you don't need computers to exist to do computer science
[08:53:09] <sparcdr> i know
[08:53:12] * tsp guesses that most of the people who code for solaris have CS degrees given the amount of things that just work without having to be endlessly tweaked
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[08:53:21] <e^ipi> any universal turing machine can run an algorithm that any other universal turing machine can
[08:54:17] <kjetilho> quasi: this is really sad.  NetApp has great products :-/
[08:54:22] <sparcdr> but in primary education, meaning first years, and up through high school, it's just archaic.  they teach math that the brain of a 16 year old male cannot grasp.  you know about the logic portion of the frontal lobe?  it doesnt develop until 23 or so in males.  yet they try and try and try to force basic math into young people's heads, when it's not even possible to grasp
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[08:54:56] <e^ipi> and even if every turing machine disappeared, you can still do raw algorithm analysis to find, for example, the fastest sorting algorithm
[08:54:59] <sparcdr> basic meaning trigonometry, im not talking basic monkey math
[08:55:06] * tsp did not know that
[08:55:36] <sparcdr> ahaha
[08:55:38] <sparcdr> stupid netapp
[08:55:54] <sparcdr> they dont like free lunch @ zfs
[08:55:59] <tsp> I wanted to get into computers because of accessibility - I'm blind, and I'm constantly hitting roadblocks in whatever I'm trying to do, even in the school courses themselves
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[08:56:46] <sparcdr> im not blind and i had trouble.  i look at things right a right brain mentality, but through my education years I've learned using left brain methods.  I have lots of gaps
[08:57:47] <tsp> When my instructor asks me to create, say, a chart, I don't want to have to rely on someone else in order to make sure it's formatted correctly because the screen reader keeps saying blank, or throws out random numbers
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[08:58:20] <sparcdr> http://www.news.com/5208-13580_3-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=32319&messageID=326340&start=-1 this guy is a fscking idiot
[08:58:41] <sparcdr> her says anti-microsoft, way to go, then says windows apps on solaris?  it's about patents you moron!@
[08:58:46] <quasi> kjetilho: they used to be great products - but not much seems to have happened in the last few years
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[08:59:57] <tsp> heh
[09:00:02] <kjetilho> quasi: I don't know, they still scale very well and are extremely reliable
[09:00:15] <tsp> qemu or xen would run them just fine, qemu being slower by far
[09:00:33] <quasi> kjetilho: but still not much in the way of innovation
[09:00:40] <kjetilho> who needs innovation? :)
[09:00:47] <sparcdr> not my point
[09:00:56] <kjetilho> they make a filer.  it works.
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[09:00:58] <sparcdr> it's about patents.  wine is constantly getting raped by microsoft
[09:01:31] <tsp> sparcdr: How is it still active?
[09:01:32] <quasi> kjetilho: sure, there was a time when using special purpose processors made sense, but nowadays using general purpose procs seems a lot more cost effective and flexible
[09:01:33] <sparcdr> the article is about NetApp and Sun patents on filesystem technology, this guy cheers them then he asks for Sun to hold his hand.  Anti-dependent
[09:01:51] <sparcdr> tsp, it doesnt use any of the leaked code, theyve audited it many times
[09:02:04] <kjetilho> quasi: huh?  NetApp has always used general purpose processors.  the original NetApp used a Pentium 90!
[09:02:13] <sparcdr> yuck
[09:02:15] <sparcdr> that's retarded
[09:02:20] <quasi> kjetilho: seriously?
[09:02:20] <sparcdr> embedded devices and x86 dont mix
[09:02:24] <kjetilho> yes
[09:02:27] <WickyBus> quasi: yes
[09:02:32] <sparcdr> I don't care what you say, ARM and MIPS have always been better options
[09:02:46] <sparcdr> x86 is a terrible architecture for fanless and custom devies
[09:02:47] <sparcdr> *devices
[09:02:48] <WickyBus> most of the money you pay for a netapp is for the inovation/engineering of the software, not the actual hardware
[09:02:52] <sparcdr> anyways take care guys
[09:02:57] <WickyBus> at least that's what our sales guy tried to tell us
[09:03:01] <quasi> hmm, I need to go kill someone for feeding me misinformation
[09:03:01] <WickyBus> be good
[09:03:02] <auto359> using pkg-get on sxde, should i use blastwave/stable or unstable as the new repos?
[09:03:12] <sparcdr> WickyBus, enjoy your ride on the short bus
[09:03:19] <sparcdr> unstable auto359
[09:03:22] <WickyBus> I am in the bus already
[09:03:25] <WickyBus> UMTS ftw
[09:03:29] <auto359> sparcdr: thanks
[09:03:31] <sparcdr> stable is chiefly regular Solaris 10
[09:03:43] <sparcdr> it has major problems with sharing libraries
[09:03:49] <WickyBus> switching to the train in some mins
[09:03:55] <sparcdr> WickedWicky, I have 3G EVDO (Sprint), no bandwidth limits
[09:03:57] <quasi> WickyBus: I've stopped using my laptop on the train - missing my stop was no fun ;)
[09:04:37] <WickyBus> quasi: I have to be a real idiot to miss my stop, since it's the bus' last stop :P
[09:04:38] <sparcdr> UMTS is just not as common, it's faster, about 2x the speed.  Depends on region, it's currently spotty at best.  I get coverage everywhere except my home
[09:04:43] <sparcdr> DURR
[09:04:48] * sparcdr slaps WickedWicky
[09:04:49] <WickyBus> actually this is HPDSA
[09:04:52] <WickyBus> 2mbit
[09:04:56] <sparcdr> that's what I'm referring to
[09:04:58] <sparcdr> I get 2mbit also
[09:05:02] <WickyBus> no usage limit
[09:05:03] <sparcdr> it's a coverage issue
[09:05:06] <sparcdr> It's less common
[09:05:12] <auto359> cd
[09:05:14] <sparcdr> actually AT&T is 30GB unofficially
[09:05:24] <auto359> whoops, wrong kbd
[09:05:31] <sparcdr> Verizon is 5GB heh, tards.
[09:05:33] <WickyBus> auto359: cd: /
[09:05:40] <g4lt-sb100> sparcdr, have I called you bitch recently?  no power vision for me :(
[09:05:42] <sparcdr> Sprint has none, I've pumped out 60gb in a month no problem
[09:05:49] <WickyBus> Well, I work for KPN, so I get this for free
[09:05:50] <sparcdr> g4lt-sb100, ?
[09:05:53] <WickyBus> for as long as it lasts anyway
[09:05:54] <sparcdr> what are you talking about
[09:06:15] <sparcdr> I just have 3G Sprint, I don't use their phones
[09:06:17] <g4lt-sb100> sparcdr, the power visioin nyetwoirk hasn't gotten to me.  I've only been waiting for years
[09:06:26] <sparcdr> ouch
[09:06:29] <sparcdr> oh right
[09:06:30] <sparcdr> same network
[09:06:35] <sparcdr> im in california
[09:06:41] <g4lt-sb100> the HPDSA modems are power vision
[09:06:50] <sparcdr> decent coverage.  i have a friend with hsdpa, he's always on edge
[09:06:55] <sparcdr> oh
[09:06:55] <sparcdr> ?
[09:07:10] <sparcdr> i didnt think Sprint would use UTMS
[09:07:11] <sparcdr> given they are a US company
[09:07:20] <sparcdr> only AT&T has supported the trend
[09:07:25] <g4lt-sb100> if not, my sprint rep and I are going round
[09:07:30] <sparcdr> spotty coverage at best on west coast
[09:07:39] <sparcdr> anyways, that sucks :(
[09:07:42] <sparcdr> bai
[09:08:02] <g4lt-sb100> may not be HPDSA, eithe rway, EVDO on sprint is not mine :(
[09:08:11] * g4lt-sb100 is 1xRTT
[09:08:15] <sparcdr> haha
[09:08:19] <sparcdr> i hate that
[09:08:28] <sparcdr> 1xRTT is still faster than EDGE
[09:08:29] <sparcdr> :(
[09:08:33] <sparcdr> edge is that bad
[09:08:41] <auto359> 'scuse my linuxness ... why does find / pkg-get*" give me everything not the wildcard term "pkg-get*" ?
[09:08:49] <sparcdr> uh
[09:08:53] <sparcdr> "pkg-get*"
[09:08:55] <sparcdr> quote it?
[09:09:00] <g4lt-sb100> yeah, when power vision is in my neck of the woods, I'l;l be all over it like stink on shit
[09:09:07] <sparcdr> cool
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[09:09:18] <auto359> hmm, so i am supposed to quote it?
[09:09:21] <sparcdr> my neck in the woods doesnt even get 1xRTT, EDGE, or 3G
[09:09:25] <sparcdr> it's bumfsck
[09:09:28] <sparcdr> yes
[09:09:32] <sparcdr> asterisks kill kittens
[09:09:40] <sparcdr> find / -name "bob*"
[09:10:46] <auto359> ah ta, i also missed the -name, linux was -iname "term", k
[09:10:57] <sparcdr> iname isnt a standard
[09:11:00] <g4lt-sb100> are the merlin cards supported under osol?
[09:11:04] <sparcdr> yes
[09:11:09] <g4lt-sb100> w00000
[09:11:24] <sparcdr> g4lt-sb100, i just saw a post with HSDPA and Novatel's merlin on wwan-discuss
[09:11:27] <WickyBus> linux has -name too btw
[09:11:28] <sparcdr> look in the archives
[09:11:35] <sparcdr> WickedWicky, not the point
[09:11:40] <sparcdr> it copies everything and everyone
[09:11:41] <WickyBus> just that they added -iname for case insensitiveness
[09:11:47] <WickyBus> which, is what you just pointed out
[09:11:52] <sparcdr> because they add features to everything
[09:11:53] <WickyBus> sorry, was looking at a cutey
[09:12:22] <g4lt-sb100> ...that would have been funnier had I typed it better (  -inane
[09:12:32] <sparcdr> they're all over the map, POSIX, BSD, SVR, GNU, let's add some roger rabit foo foo features and 100 more to GCC!  JUST because we CAN!
[09:13:08] <sparcdr> LSB failed, it will continue to fail, and will continue to drive people to Solaris
[09:13:10] <WickyBus> you're aware that Sun added functionality to GCC 4.0 for better Sparc optimizing right?
[09:13:21] <sparcdr> thank you for being chaotic guys!
[09:13:59] <e^ipi> WickedWicky: too bad they didn't add code to make it conform to the Solaris C++ ABI and demangle scheme
[09:14:03] <sparcdr> now i go i cant get anything done while on here
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[09:14:53] <WickyBus> e^ipi: why would it be done right first time? now they can justify the 3 FTE to fix the problems ;-)
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[09:16:52] <WickyBus> oh and quasi: I have to take my idiot statement back, since it's the same UMTS that made me realise I _arrived_ at the end stop, ran out the bus and left my phone and ipod _in_ that bus :P
[09:17:04] <WickyBus> not now, two months ago or something
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[09:19:36] <WickyTrain> morning jmcp
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[09:21:31] <jmcp> hi WickyTrain
[09:21:36] * jmcp grumbles about the nyetwork
[09:21:52] * WickyTrain hands you a nice coffee
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[09:22:26] <jmcp> ta much
[09:22:36] <auto359> jmcp: hi
[09:22:48] <WickyTrain> I just downloaded BeaLogic server
[09:22:53] <WickyTrain> let's see how that works
[09:23:03] <jmcp> hi auto359
[09:23:42] <auto359> just sorted pkg-get, had been setting url=http in wrong /dir ...
[09:23:43] <trochej> coffeeeeeeee....
[09:23:52] <WickyTrain> trochej: coffee junk
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[09:24:52] <FuzzyB> does anyone have an example of open solaris and xen using physical zfs slices vs. file backed file systems?
[09:24:54] <e^ipi> heh, some kid that works at the school newspaper wants to start a real cafe on campus
[09:24:55] <auto359> what's you guys opinion of star office vs open office?
[09:25:04] <FuzzyB> i've been trying to google something up and i'm not finding much
[09:25:15] <e^ipi> which would make it the only decent cafe in a 1000km radius
[09:25:28] <e^ipi> auto359: staroffice is openoffice plus some stuff (templates & fonts mostly)
[09:25:36] <auto359> e^ipi: sounds severe, what about a McCafe ... ?
[09:25:43] * auto359 ducks
[09:25:50] <fendel> FuzzyB: Not much difference except more art and templates
[09:25:52] <auto359> e^ipi: k
[09:26:29] <e^ipi> auto359: stale coffee is stale coffee... i mean a quality coffeeshop that serves decent beans roasted in the last few days by baristi that know how to pull a proper shot
[09:26:50] <FuzzyB> fendel: huh?
[09:27:00] <trochej> WickyTrain: Yes, I am and I am proud of it :)
[09:27:31] <WickyTrain> good stuff :)
[09:27:34] <e^ipi> auto359: the sort of stuff that Tempt and myself would actually pay for
[09:27:48] <auto359> e^ipi: you don't want much, where is this dearth of coffee goodness ... outback australia?
[09:28:08] <FuzzyB> you mean a cup of coffee that isn't scorched?
[09:28:15] <FuzzyB> say it's so
[09:28:26] <WickyTrain> he means a cup of _coffee_ not drip with water addedd
[09:28:31] <WickyTrain> added too
[09:28:42] <e^ipi> there's a bunch of decent shops in vancouver ( elasian, artigianos, radio city, wicked and JJ's )
[09:28:47] <FuzzyB> she
[09:28:58] <jmcp> auto359: Chipdancer pulls a mean espresso
[09:29:10] <e^ipi> FuzzyB: no, i mean actually good coffee
[09:29:17] <FuzzyB> i'm in portland and i tell ya I can't find a decent cup of coffee that doesn't taste like it's been put in a frying pan
[09:29:18] <auto359> jmcp: where's that?
[09:29:22] <FuzzyB> espresso or nont
[09:29:27] <FuzzyB> not
[09:30:10] <jmcp> auto359: he lives just up the road from me
[09:30:14] <e^ipi> FuzzyB: stumptown coffee
[09:30:25] <FuzzyB> even them i haven't been too happy with
[09:30:42] <FuzzyB> mind you they do better than most
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[09:31:36] <FuzzyB> so anyways back to my question, can anyone produce a conf file for xen + opensolaris that uses something other than file backed file systems for it's disks?
[09:31:47] <FuzzyB> i'm curious if there is some way to use a raw zfs slice like iscsi
[09:33:00] <auto359> jmcp: you live west of the cbd or west of brissy?
[09:34:07] <WickyTrain> I have to shutdown, I'm almost at the office, ttyl
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[09:34:38] <trochej> FuzzyB: I know that in Linux I can use LVM2 lv, so I'd expeect that you can at least try :)
[09:34:45] <auto359> question re sudo on solaris, is it better to be root and install software or use sudo to install software?
[09:35:44] <jmcp> auto359: near Mount Ommaney
[09:36:03] <FuzzyB> does open solaris respect the phy: when refering to disk
[09:36:12] <FuzzyB> is there some place that opensolaris has this documented
[09:36:56] <trochej> auto359: I'd say that it's best to distance yourself from root account, so use sudo, or better rbac
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[09:37:06] <auto359> jmcp: i have nfi where that is, but i'll map it, is it a bit like pullenvale?
[09:37:25] <auto359> rbac, k
[09:38:30] <trochej> auto359: It takes some more reading, rbac, than sudo, but you can produce a role that can be used just for that - installing software
[09:38:41] <jmcp> on the Centenary hwy side of the river
[09:38:56] <auto359> trochej: so extremely restricted? neat
[09:39:03] <auto359> jmcp: k
[09:39:52] <tsoome> its not extremely restricted. its precisely restricted - you can grant rigths as many as you like.
[09:40:12] <trochej> auto359: Yeah, howevver I simply create role for Primary Administrator and su tu that :)
[09:40:20] <auto359> t
[09:40:25] <auto359> k even
[09:41:28] <trochej> When you think of that, my way is not much different that using sudo, but hey, I am leet :)
[09:44:47] <auto359> i read some comments recently about some sun devs who are thinking of a debian-like installer for solaris, is package management a real *issue*?
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[09:45:17] <jmcp> auto359: define "issue"
[09:45:35] <jmcp> and check out gman's blog as well as ianmurdock.com
[09:45:40] <jmcp> look for Project Indiana
[09:45:43] <tsoome> patch management is issue in solaris
[09:45:46] <auto359> that the current system pkgadd, pkg-get are not as fleixible or as powerful as apt-get/aptitude
[09:46:08] <auto359> ian murdoch is mr debian himself!
[09:46:27] <kjetilho> well, it lacks virtual packages I think.  but the main problem is that the tools are sloooow.
[09:46:30] <kjetilho> IMHO
[09:46:43] <tsoome> package management is not (unless you are linux moron, who needs to add few packages every now and then, sine you have no idea how to manage your system)
[09:47:26] <auto359> with debian you had a wide range but CLI aptitude was best ... i am a liux moron thank you
[09:47:29] <FuzzyB> apt is nice for keeping updates straight
[09:47:32] <auto359> linux*
[09:48:07] <FuzzyB> it's about the last major attraction i have to linux
[09:48:07] <kjetilho> I like the separation of packages and patches, and think it's a huge shortcoming of deb and RPM that the concept is missing
[09:48:39] <FuzzyB> i can understand your arguement there
[09:48:43] <tsoome> in linux you download new versions of packages to get update, in solaris you get install media and do upgrade (lu or offline). thats a difference.
[09:48:58] <kjetilho> also rolling back a patch is very painful in deb and RPM
[09:49:03] <FuzzyB> not really
[09:49:07] <FuzzyB> rpm maybe
[09:49:20] <FuzzyB> but frankly I can't stand RPM's or RPM based systems
[09:49:33] <kjetilho> how do you do it with apt?
[09:49:46] <auto359> me either, i quit at FC3
[09:49:56] <FuzzyB> just use apt-get remove
[09:50:02] <kjetilho> there is no database over performed package upgrades
[09:50:10] <FuzzyB> and apt-get install to install the prior subversion of the same package
[09:50:11] <kjetilho> s/over/of/
[09:50:19] <FuzzyB> err
[09:50:24] <FuzzyB> apt-get remove then apt-get install
[09:50:36] <FuzzyB> debian is really good about leaving prior versions available
[09:51:08] <kjetilho> how do you list the versions available?
[09:51:15] <auto359> indeed, and gives you apt-get clean to remove crap between new and older if doing a rollback
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[09:51:39] <FuzzyB> apt-cache search
[09:52:00] <FuzzyB> auto359: it's actually a dpkg --purge if you really want to get down to brass tacks
[09:53:18] <kjetilho> FuzzyB: still, you must admit it's a lot more painful than a patchrm
[09:53:44] <FuzzyB> it's hard for me to admit to that because honestly i haven't used it yet
[09:53:45] <kjetilho> apt-get remove will also have to be forced, so you get an inconsistent system while working
[09:54:07] <FuzzyB> i haven't had a real reason to get into solaris / open solaris until the iscsi / xen crap rolled out
[09:54:21] <kjetilho> "patchrm PATCHID" done
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[09:54:27] <FuzzyB> kjetilho: it doesn't always have to be forced
[09:54:38] <kjetilho> no, but anything non-trivial will
[09:54:59] <FuzzyB> and i doubt patchrm is going cover all 3rd party software like apt does
[09:55:03] <kjetilho> rpm is better there, since you can do rpm --old -U
[09:55:21] <kjetilho> patchrm handles all software in PKG format
[09:56:08] <kjetilho> not all vendors bother to make packages, unfortunately.  but then that's the case on Linux, too
[09:56:19] <kjetilho> e.g. try to find a deb of Oracle :)
[09:56:28] <kjetilho> you must run alien on the rpm
[09:56:31] <FuzzyB> yea i know
[09:56:35] <FuzzyB> i've fought that battle
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[09:57:13] <auto359> alien is a good tool, seems quite reliable on the conversions
[09:57:22] <FuzzyB> my major push for open solaris is quite frankly my utter disgust with the way linux handles scsi devices that are hot-swapped
[09:57:31] <FuzzyB> and my love for zfs
[09:57:45] <FuzzyB> i just needed xen to be in place to have a reasonable avenue to use it
[09:58:19] <auto359> my beefs are the poor java/java-based app support on most linuxes, especially in 64bit
[09:58:35] <FuzzyB> yea
[09:58:38] <FuzzyB> oh yea
[09:59:03] <FuzzyB> but that same beef is the fact there is no sun java jvm for linux / sparc
[09:59:16] <auto359> some pls remind of the *best* method to untar a .tar on solaris made using the linux tar?
[09:59:54] <auto359> FuzzyB: drove me mad the last 2 weeks trying to get java plugins for FF, netbeans, jdk installed on debian 64bit
[10:00:00] <FuzzyB> hehe
[10:00:16] <FuzzyB> be happy that adobe finally released a linux flash for 64 bit
[10:00:19] <trochej> auto359: gtar
[10:00:30] <auto359> trochej: ah, that's it, thanks
[10:00:39] * auto359 writes that down ...
[10:01:26] <kjetilho> auto359: remember to use "tar -H pax" on Linux to make standard compliant files
[10:01:37] <kjetilho> then you can use ordinary Solaris tar to extract them
[10:01:44] <FuzzyB> the last company i worked for, i showed them tons of reasons why cool threads was so cool and why the tomcat cluster should be them
[10:01:48] <auto359> kjetilho: neat, will write that one down also
[10:02:02] <FuzzyB> and they basically came back to me and said until it can run linux w/tomcat we don't care
[10:02:37] <auto359> FuzzyB: your repsonse?
[10:02:44] <auto359> response*
[10:02:53] <FuzzyB> i couldn't do anything about it
[10:02:58] <FuzzyB> sun wouldn't release a linux jvm for sparc
[10:03:06] <FuzzyB> and blackdown wasn't going to cut it
[10:03:40] <FuzzyB> and the whole java going gpl haddn't happened yet
[10:03:54] <auto359> ah k
[10:03:58] <FuzzyB> btw anyone know anything on how that's panning out?
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[10:08:24] <dlab> hi
[10:09:03] <auto359> just imported my linux .mrxvtrc into sxde ... eew ugly
[10:09:24] <auto359> everything is so huge
[10:09:33] <dlab> trying to install nevada 70b on this ultra 80 over a previous freebsd installation
[10:09:42] <dlab> and the installer complains about there being no disks
[10:10:07] <dlab> fire up a terminal to try and repartition, but it's preventing me from recreating the 'backup' partition ;/
[10:13:10] <ofu> i have a problem booting the xVM on nv75a
[10:13:34] <ofu> booting just hangs for about 95% of all attempts
[10:14:27] <FuzzyB> where ofu?
[10:14:34] <FuzzyB> does it spit an error message?
[10:16:36] <ofu> no, just freezes
[10:16:47] <ofu> kernel-version is printed and hangs
[10:16:51] <ofu> even with -v boot
[10:18:16] <FuzzyB> what processor?
[10:18:40] <ofu> Intel 6750 (2.66Ghz Dual-Core with VT) on Intel DG33TL
[10:18:49] <FuzzyB> ok
[10:18:57] <FuzzyB> hrm
[10:19:03] <FuzzyB> that should work i would expect
[10:19:43] <ofu> i got a supermicro system at work (2 Intel quad-cores with 2.66GHz) that boots the xVM without problems
[10:20:37] <FuzzyB> well that's good to know
[10:20:40] <FuzzyB> i have one of those downtown
[10:21:00] <ofu> X7DBE+ board with BIOS 1.3c
[10:22:21] <dlab> any help? :(
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[10:26:24] <tsp> dlab: zero out the disk
[10:26:30] <tsp> dlab: the first few sectors of it anyway
[10:26:50] <dlab> I did..
[10:26:57] <dlab> format just restores the old partition table from a backup ;/
[10:27:11] <tsp> maybe its on another part of the disk :)
[10:29:48] <auto359> what are the safe colours to use in unix terms?
[10:30:39] <trochej> auto359: Black and white
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[10:31:01] <WickyTrain> dum di dum
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[10:31:09] <WickedWorking> sort of
[10:32:14] <dlab> heh, almost got lucky
[10:32:36] <auto359> i am trying to get a close match to the linux green on black but with a more dull green
[10:32:47] <dlab> then format spat out: "label error: EFI Labels do not support overlapping partitions"
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[10:38:00] <jmcp> dlab: ah, run "format -e" from the terminal window
[10:38:08] <trochej> WickedWorking: Jo!
[10:38:15] <jmcp> that'll let you change the partition type and when you label the disk, choose "SMI Label"
[10:41:12] <dlab> jmcp: oh hell yes
[10:41:13] <dlab> thanks
[10:41:29] <dlab> would help if manpages were on the installation dvd ;/
[10:43:41] <WickedWorking> jmcp: can you kick someone to make Etude available? :P
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[10:46:38] <jmcp> WickedWicky: nope, sorry
[10:46:42] <WickedWorking> well damn
[10:46:49] <jmcp> dlab: geeez, you want everything :-)
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[10:47:01] <trochej> :)
[10:47:02] <dlab> jmcp: haha
[10:47:07] <dlab> huge java gui installer..
[10:47:09] <dlab> .. no manpages
[10:47:12] <jmcp> WickedWorking: got no time fer kickin' have to spend all mah time awurkin'
[10:47:37] <WickedWorking> hm
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[11:02:38] <WickedWorking> jmcp: whacha working on, providing you're in New Delphi, or is it a secret?
[11:02:49] <WickedWorking> I presumed it was a training
[11:03:53] <jmcp> WickedWicky: Beijing, actually. I'm part of the team working on Serial-Attached SCSI
[11:04:05] <jmcp> I tend to do the management utilities more than the drivers per se
[11:04:15] <WickedWorking> cool :D
[11:04:17] <jmcp> though I do help with code review, testing and such.
[11:04:27] <jmcp> yeah, it's a real buzz to be on the cutting edge
[11:05:50] <timely_changelog> does anyone have perf numbers for massive numbers of mounted volumes (zfs, otherwise)?
[11:06:10] <timely_changelog> i'm wondering if having >256 zfs volumes would be a bad idea :)
[11:06:41] * timely_changelog has around 199 volumes atm
[11:06:53] <jmcp> timely_changelog: on $mumbleserver inside, we have at least that many volumes mounted on a regular basis
[11:06:55] <jmcp> if not more
[11:07:14] * Stric has 2635
[11:07:25] <timely_changelog> jmcp: i'm growing at least 1 a week, i'm not really worried, just curious
[11:07:37] <timely_changelog> stric: wow, what for?
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[11:07:45] <Stric> takes like 2-3 minutes extra to mount at boot
[11:07:57] <Stric> timely_changelog: homedirs
[11:07:58] <timely_changelog> each one i add weekly is a source cross reference for that week's release
[11:08:12] <timely_changelog> stric: uni or other?
[11:08:19] <Stric> uni
[11:08:40] <jmcp> 1840 zfs mounted on $mumbleserver right now
[11:09:19] <jmcp> mumbleserver is for an entire campus, but is also the default alternate homedir box for people like me who aren't based in the SFBay area but who work over ON
[11:10:51] <timely_changelog> you guys probably have a lot more storage in your pool(s) :)
[11:11:08] <timely_changelog> NAME                    SIZE    USED   AVAIL    CAP  HEALTH     ALTROOT
[11:11:09] <timely_changelog> root_pool               368G    256G    112G    69%  ONLINE     -
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[11:11:22] <Stric> ~2T
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[11:12:31] <timely_changelog> sometime next year i'll have to add another drive
[11:12:54] * timely_changelog will have to ry to remember to swap the drive in instead of simply adding it to the pool
[11:13:19] <timely_changelog> so each of your users could have ~1g?
[11:13:22] <jmcp> timely_changelog: yeah, start at 12T and work up
[11:14:28] <timely_changelog> does sun play w/ afs at all these days, or is it strictly nfs?
[11:14:56] <timely_changelog> (my uni used afs in conjunction w/ a bunch of others...)
[11:15:12] <timsf> morning all
[11:15:26] <jmcp> timely_changelog: nfs for all as far as I'm aware
[11:15:33] <jmcp> hi timsf
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[11:19:23] <timsf> hey jmcp
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[12:06:10] <timsf> reboot
[12:06:19] <timsf> oops, wrong window :-)
[12:07:58] <jteo> ;)
[12:09:06] <timsf>  - the perils of TwinView... (think I need a new focus policy - "Focus follows eyes")
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[12:10:37] <jteo> lousy excuse. ;)
[12:11:49] <timsf> the dog ate my window manager (hmm, not much better)
[12:13:21] <jteo> mouse tracking not responsive enough for user?
[12:14:52] <timsf> Maybe I just need a bigger (more obvious) mouse pointer - doable now we've got http://blogs.sun.com/alanc/entry/stupid_nv_74_cursor_tricks
[12:14:58] <timsf> (he says, straying back on-topic)
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[12:16:24] <jteo> are there still layoffs going on at SUN^H^^H JAVA ?
[12:18:01] <timsf> Not that I know of. That said, they sort of drift in and out, depending on country-specific rules (eg. a layoff in the US mightn't impact other countries till later)
[12:19:17] <jteo> ah. since the costs of labour differ so dramatically across the globe. -sigh-
[12:19:58] <timsf> It's more that different countries have guidelines about how to do layoffs...
[12:20:48] <jteo> ah.
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[12:25:07] <quasi> anywhere from being able to sack people by sms (.uk) to having to pay years of salary to get rid of people
[12:26:00] <TomJ> hey guys, I'm forwarding X from a Solaris 10 6/06 running X 6.6 box to a Linux OpenSUSE with X 7.2. I can open an xterm fine, but mozilla dies with an X window system error "bad request" (invalid request code or no such operation)
[12:26:40] <TomJ> I know it's not opensolaris but anyone have any ideas? is it incompatibility between the two X versions?
[12:27:18] <TomJ> oh actually maybe it's not X 6.6, maybe it just reports the X version as 6.6 as it's solaris 6/06 :) not sure about that, but that's what pkginfo -i reports
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[13:01:06] <hsn_> can be OS compiled by GCC?
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[13:04:09] <trygvis> nice: http://opensolaris.org/os/community/brandz/todo/linux_2_6/
[13:04:37] <kszwed> that's a GSOC project iirc.
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[13:10:49] <JWheeler> oh, nice
[13:11:13] <JWheeler> 2.4 must have just been much easier, otherwise you'd really have to wonder why they started with 2.4
[13:11:36] <JWheeler> Does any mainstream linux distro released in the past year, use a 2.4 kernel?
[13:11:37] <trygvis> yeah
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[13:11:48] <trygvis> dunno, I doubt it
[13:12:15] <kszwed> when sol10 was announced, brandz was one of the announced features iirc. it took over 2 years to deliver it.
[13:12:16] * JWheeler stops himself making a debian joke
[13:12:23] <jamesd> JWheeler, not sure, but i'm sure lots of companies are still using versions that use the 2.4 kernel
[13:12:41] <JWheeler> possibly
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[13:13:13] <jamesd> JWheeler, deffinetly my corp just okayed the use of  rhel 4, and  rhel 5 is out...
[13:13:14] <kszwed> its also a bit like the sol8 brandz. Why would they not do sol9? well, because customers want to get off sol8... so its basically customer driven.
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[13:14:06] * JWheeler nods
[13:14:11] <jteo> kszwed: engineers do the work. Marketing does.....the bizarre trumpet blowing way before stuff is ready.
[13:14:27] <kszwed> jteo, yeah, it never was like that in the good old days.
[13:14:38] <jteo> (like how ZFS didn't ship with Solaris 10 FCS, but they announced it anyway)
[13:14:42] <kszwed> jteo, when marketing started blabbing after engineering released a solid product...
[13:14:50] <jteo> kszwed: true. -sigh-
[13:16:57] <sickness> *cough* microsoft *cough*
[13:17:59] <sickness> the fact that they are a monopoly, and from a lot of time, maybe means that this is the best thing to do: sell beta software as final/stable and alpha software as beta and so on... :P
[13:18:46] <kszwed> sickness, i know of companies that sell what they haven't yet developed! the revenue from the sale goes into the product development. what a great model =)
[13:19:10] <sickness> kszwed: yeah, geniuses =)
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[13:34:39] <trochej> Isn't it how the world has been created? God made a beta and then stamped it with Stable[tm] Release
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[13:42:28] <auto359> on sxde using mrxvt, i have a max char entry of 28 chars horizontally after the bash prompt, is this a term issue perhaps or mrxvt?
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[13:43:28] <jmcp> max char entry
[13:43:30] <jmcp> ?
[13:43:54] <WickedWorking> max amount of characters on one line, I presume
[13:44:19] <jmcp> that's what I was thinking
[13:44:26] <jmcp> auto359: a bit more specific please
[13:44:35] <jmcp> I want to make sure I really understand
[13:44:59] <trochej> you don't
[13:45:00] <jmcp> I don't have a problem using gnome-terminal and having windows up to 160cols wide
[13:45:03] <trochej> get over it
[13:45:06] <trochej> :P
[13:45:07] <jmcp> trochej: ow!
[13:45:10] <jmcp> :-P
[13:45:17] <WickedWorking> trochej: bulley!
[13:45:22] <auto359> hang on
[13:45:27] <Tempt> Good evening all!
[13:45:32] <WickedWorking> TEEEEEEEEEEEMPT
[13:45:33] <WickedWorking> hellows
[13:45:36] * trochej started to feel old today
[13:45:44] <Tempt> Just finished hammering a big spike through my Motorola L6
[13:45:49] <trochej> Tomorow guy from my new corpo go to pub
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[13:45:56] <WickedWorking> Tempt: is this good?
[13:46:04] <Tempt> yes!
[13:46:11] <Tempt> Replaced it with a Nokia N73
[13:46:15] <trochej> I was looking for a company, but everyone comes in AFTER I usually leave
[13:46:16] <Tempt> been meaning to get a new phone for months
[13:46:41] <WickedWorking> aha
[13:46:52] <jmcp> Tempt: gday!
[13:47:07] <Tempt> Hey there!
[13:47:13] <jmcp> how's the new gig?
[13:47:16] <Tempt> and my T2000 arrived today
[13:47:24] <Tempt> jmcp: Oh, new gig is good, so very good so far.
[13:47:26] <WickedWorking> working well?
[13:47:27] <jmcp> ooooooooooooh
[13:47:30] <jmcp> nice
[13:47:36] <jmcp> excellent
[13:47:41] <jmcp> glad to hear that
[13:47:52] <jmcp> so ... met many of my ex-Sun mates there?
[13:47:52] <Tempt> and my 880 blew the doors of my friend's ricer peecee on a blender benchmark
[13:47:58] * jmcp cackles
[13:48:03] <jmcp> good work
[13:48:15] <JWheeler> can someone help me out with some C. I'm building an app with solaris 8, which doesn't have expf. I see defines like "define exp expf", what does that mean exactly, that if exp is called, instead use expf?
[13:48:20] <Tempt> Not too many ex-Sun this week ;)
[13:48:31] <dlg> JWheeler: other way round
[13:48:38] <dlg> exp is replaced with expf
[13:48:40] <auto359> jmcp: what else can i tell you? would you like a pastie of my .bashrc?
[13:48:59] <jmcp> auto359: yeah, that would be handie
[13:49:02] <jmcp> or handy, even
[13:49:06] <auto359> k, wait
[13:49:09] <JWheeler> dlg, so I could use that as a sneaky way of making the application use exp instead of the non-existant expf?
[13:49:13] <jmcp> though I strongly suspect that it's the terminal rather than the bashrc
[13:49:20] <Tempt> So, anyway, Nokia N73 .. what a phone
[13:49:23] <Tempt> very nice
[13:49:41] * jmcp debates the merits of actually having dinner for a change
[13:49:50] <Tempt> jmcp: I had a pub meal :)
[13:50:17] <auto359> jmcp: got to go, localised lightning, no UPS!
[13:50:26] <auto359> maybe tomorrow, i'll do something about it
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[13:51:00] <jmcp> Tempt: I'm planning that (well, perhaps without so much of the food!) for saturday night when I'm hitting the nightlife area of Beijing
[13:51:17] <Tempt> jmcp: Beijing?
[13:51:21] <jmcp> yeah
[13:51:22] <Tempt> jmcp: Living it up?
[13:51:26] <jmcp> hardly :)
[13:51:29] <Tempt> conference, work or holiday?
[13:51:30] <jmcp> here for 2 weeks
[13:51:39] <jmcp> work
[13:51:54] <Tempt> Oh, excellent. What are you brewing up in the middle kingdom?
[13:51:55] <jmcp> next time I hope to be here for 3 weeks, but take a week off in the middle and do the tourist thing - get J to come along as well
[13:51:59] <jmcp> more SAS stuff
[13:52:06] <jmcp> platform support, mainly
[13:52:31] <Tempt> Oh, fun.
[13:52:44] <Tempt> I've been working on trying to get IBM to get SunCluster upgrades right.
[13:52:53] <WickedWorking> how does that work out?
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[13:53:27] <Tempt> It suggests murder as a solution, but the number of individuals would warrant the tag 'spree killer'
[13:53:40] * jmcp rotflmao
[13:53:57] <WickedWorking> haha
[13:54:20] <Tempt> so I've got this T2000 sitting here to play with
[13:54:29] <Tempt> figure I might get my LDOMs time in tomorrow
[13:54:36] <Doc> careful or you'll go blind
[13:55:17] <Tempt> Hope I'll get one of the new T5220s soon
[13:55:58] <Tempt> My $60 v880 posted succesfully and booted from CD today.
[13:57:48] <WickedWorking> how can I see the content of a .pkg?
[13:57:57] <trochej> Take a knife
[13:57:58] <Tempt> less
[13:58:16] <WickedWorking> so there is no command like 'tar -t' for pkgadd?
[13:58:23] <gerard13> pkgtrans
[13:58:53] <Tempt> pkgexplode
[13:58:57] <trochej> I say, take a knife
[13:59:09] <Tempt> it's a trick
[13:59:11] <Tempt> get an axe.
[14:00:08] <WickedWorking> found it
[14:00:09] <WickedWorking> lol
[14:00:12] <WickedWorking> yea yea
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[14:00:22] <WickedWorking> I just bunziped the none.bz2 to /tmp
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[14:02:57] <kjetilho> make sure /tmp hasn't changed permissions
[14:03:04] <kjetilho> (if you did it as root)
[14:03:23] <kjetilho> sorry, ignore me
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[14:18:29] <kohju> Please tell me how to upgrade to sxce75 on zfs bootable system.
[14:19:25] <kohju> lu is not supported zfs boot system, yet?
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[14:22:37] <quasi> correct, lu doesn't do zfs
[14:23:23] <kohju> oh.
[14:23:31] <kohju> thx.
[14:24:37] <quasi> I've seen people messing around with doing a snapshot and then upgrading - prolly somewhere on instal-discuss or blogs.sun.com
[14:28:00] <kohju> thanks. I will search it.
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[14:46:23] <openfanss> Can solaris install via network? like debian install a minimum system, then update everything
[14:46:55] <seanmcg> openfanss: google for JET and jumpstart..
[14:47:43] <seanmcg> solaris typicall installs all at once.
[14:47:50] <seanmcg> s/typically
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[14:50:18] <cmihai> openfanss, jumpstart + flash archives
[14:50:53] <openfanss> thx, i will google it
[14:50:54] <cmihai> openfanss, and you can deploy patches via JumpStart too.
[14:50:58] <cmihai> docs.sun.com
[14:51:00] <cmihai> It's all there.
[14:51:18] <cmihai> openfanss, RedHat's Kickstart is a JumpStart clone for example.
[14:52:21] <openfanss> i did't use redhat, so what jumpstart install? the binary or source code.
[14:52:48] <openfanss> debian way or gentoo way? for i use gentoo
[14:53:28] <cmihai> Fuck me mate, that would take years.
[14:53:37] <cmihai> It's all binary.
[14:53:59] <cmihai> With flash archives it's just a simple linear transfer even./
[14:54:51] <Tempt> Mm. flash archives.
[14:54:59] <cmihai> Yeah, flars :-)
[14:55:04] <Tempt> We love them.
[14:55:08] <Tempt> They make life easier.
[14:56:06] <cmihai> Bah, docs.sun.com is acting stupid again.
[14:56:06] <openfanss> ok, got it, i'm new here
[15:03:14] <WickedWorking> mister sunsolve... bring me a screen.. a screen which is not so clean...
[15:03:16] <WickedWorking> (8)
[15:03:33] <WickedWorking> SunSolve Error
[15:03:34] <WickedWorking>       You have encountered the following error(s) or warning(s):
[15:03:34] <WickedWorking>           o An application error has occurred... The error is logged for further analysis.
[15:03:35] <WickedWorking> gah
[15:04:17] <WickedWorking> ah, it works, after hitting refresh 10 times
[15:09:07] <flyingparchment> how can i add a DN to a groupOfUniqueNames using LDIF?
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[15:20:26] <Cyrille> flyingparchment, you need first a modify, then add to the attribute, then the new attribute value (roughly)
[15:23:32] <Cyrille> flyingparchment, so dn: <target> changetype: modify add: groupofuniquenames groupofuniquenames: <newvalue>
[15:23:41] <Cyrille> with proper line breaks and so on.
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[15:25:21] <flyingparchment> Cyrille: aha, great.  thanks
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[15:41:46] <Fish> hello
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[16:05:47] <sickness> is it ok to liveupgrade from snv74 to snv75? or should I expect the ceiling to fall on me? :)
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[16:11:08] <jmcp> of course it's ok
[16:11:27] <jmcp> just remember to pkgrm the snv74 LU packages and pkgadd the snv75 LU packages *before* you run the LI
[16:11:28] <jmcp> LU
[16:11:55] <jmcp> and *don't* pkgrm the SUNWluzone pkg
[16:11:58] <jmcp> that one bit me bad a few months back
[16:12:04] * jmcp wasn't paying attention....
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[16:30:20] <WickedWorking> nite
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[16:38:51] <Downix> Anyone here familiar with rackmount options?
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[16:46:30] <Tempt> rackmount options?
[16:46:32] <Tempt> as in...
[16:46:33] <Tempt> rack it
[16:46:36] <Tempt> don't rack it
[16:46:43] <Tempt> don't rack it and hit someone with the rails
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[16:47:41] <Downix> As in, trying to find out what a "10x10 cage" is for a rackmount option
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[16:49:23] <Tempt> cramped living quarters?
[16:49:29] <Tempt> you'll need to provide context...
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[16:50:16] <Downix> The boss wants to put our server and move it to a hosting site.  Going on their page, the only soltution for a tower they offer is a 10x10 cage
[16:50:28] <Tempt> aaah
[16:50:35] <Downix> but no context for what that is.  10"x10"? 10cm x 10cm? 10'x10'?
[16:50:44] <Tempt> so you're paying for a shitload of space to house your tower?
[16:51:04] <Tempt> hint: it's cheaper to buy a new server than pay for large amounts of colo space for a year
[16:51:07] <Downix> that's what I fear he's asking
[16:51:18] <Tempt> probably 10'x10'
[16:51:23] <Tempt> you need to buy a whole lockup cage
[16:51:24] <Downix> would be cheaper to do it inhouse in any case
[16:51:28] <Tempt> that's a bit bloody nasty
[16:51:40] <Downix> just need to argue with him and need to know what I'm talking about
[16:51:49] <Tempt> what sort of host is it, anyway?
[16:52:15] <Downix> like rackspace or rackshack
[16:52:26] <Tempt> no, as in what type of server?
[16:52:39] <Downix> oh, this solaris webserver I've been trying to setup
[16:52:58] <Downix> Still think it's dumb to have the webserver and database on the same machine, but the boss won't hear of it
[16:53:06] <Tempt> peecee?
[16:53:09] <Tempt> whitebox?
[16:53:12] <Tempt> v250?
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[16:53:18] <Downix> Dell Workstation
[16:53:22] <Tempt> err
[16:53:24] <Downix> big ugly box
[16:53:26] <Tempt> yes, well
[16:53:32] <Tempt> buy a 1ru server and call it quits on that.
[16:53:40] <Downix> need to convince the boss on that
[16:53:44] <Tempt> run your db in one zone and the webserver in another ;)
[16:53:51] <Tempt> or better, LDOMs :)
[16:54:06] <Downix> *nods*  Still don't know how to set up zones
[16:54:12] <Downix> that's next on my to-do list
[16:54:19] <Tempt> or offer to host it at home if the boss will pay for enough bandwidth to home :)
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[16:55:05] <Tempt> snuff-work: hey there.
[16:55:16] <Downix> I wish, my landlord won't let me
[16:55:17] <Downix> 8)
[16:55:32] <Tempt> Landlord won't let you have any bandwidth into your home?
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[16:58:51] <Downix> won't let me do any business-stuff out of the home
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[17:02:44] <e^ipi> my landlord won't let tenants smoke pot in the building... doesn't stop most of my neighbours
[17:03:39] <Downix> easier to hide pot than a rack in my living room
[17:03:41] <fftb> :)
[17:04:04] <libkeiser> why does a rack imply it's work related?
[17:04:05] <sickness> jmcp: oh, tnx...
[17:05:04] <sickness> I usually to pkgrm SUNWlur SUNWluu and then pkgadd -d /mnt/Solaris_11/Product/ SUNWlur SUNWluu SUNWluzone (with the iso of the new release lofimounted in /mnt of course)
[17:05:09] <Downix> libkeiser, hmm.... good point....
[17:05:10] <Downix> 8)
[17:05:21] <sickness> I think that the first command implies to remove SUNWluzone :\
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[17:18:29] <WickedWorking> see ya all later
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[17:33:18] <gdamore> good morning from smoke enshrouded southern california! :-)
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[17:40:28] <mick_work> :)
[17:41:16] <sparcdr> hi br
[17:41:19] <sparcdr> *brb
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[17:41:32] <sparcdr> okay hey guys
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[17:46:44] <Downix> time to get MySQL running
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[17:51:19] <sparcdr> easy as cake
[17:53:55] <Downix> you say that, but I cannot even find it for install
[17:54:06] <Downix> the link on the mysql website is down
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[17:59:06] <sparcdr> haha
[17:59:12] <sparcdr> coolstack bud
[17:59:19] <sparcdr> or from source
[17:59:22] <sparcdr> there's mirrors
[17:59:27] <sparcdr> eg: tds
[17:59:53] <sparcdr> mysql.com works for me
[18:00:05] <sparcdr> want a direct link to the package, or source, or to csk?
[18:01:02] <sparcdr> http://cooltools.sunsource.net/coolstack/
[18:01:10] <sparcdr> http://dev.mysql.com/downloads/mysql/5.0.html#solaris-pgadd
[18:01:18] <sparcdr> http://dev.mysql.com/get/Downloads/MySQL-5.0/mysql-5.0.45.tar.gz/from/pick#mirrors
[18:03:08] <sparcdr> just search for mysql-5.0.45.tar.gz, compile from source, it's not hard, easiest of all the things I compile.  ./configure --prefix=/opt/mysql5 --with-openssl=/usr/sfw && make && make install
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[18:04:57] <Downix> tyvm
[18:05:36] <sparcdr> np
[18:05:53] <sparcdr> there's an article on integration with smf on a sun blog linked from the coolstack page
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[18:08:44] <sparcdr> just modify the manifest and other related files indicated by the page by stripping coolstack from the paths
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[18:10:17] <Downix> that is a bit beyond my needs
[18:10:27] <Downix> just need an SQL server paired with apache and php
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[18:11:08] <sparcdr> it's in your best interest, it's not hard
[18:11:20] <sparcdr> unless you don't want fault management.  it's one of the features of Solairs
[18:12:03] <sparcdr> if the database crashes due to load or a bug (buffer overflow, stack overrun, etc) it can restart it
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[18:12:38] * sparcdr shrugs
[18:12:39] <sparcdr> bbl
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[18:24:15] <Downix> slow downloads are fun
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[18:25:00] <jteo> hence the term leisure time.
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[18:27:56] <l1s> hi all
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[18:31:24] <Rivelli> hello
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[18:35:59] <millhouse513> hey
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[19:13:40] <Downix> Hmm, do I hve to un-bzip before I install a package?
[19:16:52] <flyingparchment> yes
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[19:26:45] <Downix> ko
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[19:29:44] <Downix> nope, got an error
[19:29:55] <flyingparchment> please be more vague
[19:30:18] <Downix> ERROR: Could not process datastream from
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[19:30:32] <flyingparchment> from what?
[19:30:34] <Downix> then I check, I don't have a bzipper or bunzipper installed
[19:30:45] <Downix> CSKamp_x86.pkg.bz2
[19:30:51] <flyingparchment> /usr/bin/bzip2
[19:31:12] <Downix> doh, forgot the 2
[19:31:31] <Downix> I must sound like a complete moron by this point
[19:35:37] <Downix> Now don't try and argue with me all at once here.  8)
[19:36:59] <jteo> ;)
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[19:38:14] * flyingparchment has been playing with LDAP and SSO all day
[19:38:19] <flyingparchment> finally made it work properly
[19:39:12] <Downix> Ok, they're keeping the solaris box in-house
[19:39:15] <Downix> yay
[19:39:43] <millhouse513> i need to ssh into an iscsi target machine (opensolaris) and issue it the shutdown command...  i've tried to do "ssh root@<machineIP> 'shutdown -y -g 300' but the target machine doesn't seem to want to return to let me log into the next machine...
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[19:41:57] <Downix> We also might be getting in a java coder
[19:41:58] <Downix> so yay
[19:42:11] <flyingparchment> i'm a java coder, hire me
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[19:44:14] <fredm> milhouse513: ssh doesn't allow root access by default, but it won't exactly tell you that as an error either - just fails to connect. could that be?
[19:45:04] <Stric> millhouse513: shutdown doesn't fork off into the background.. do that if you want..
[19:45:15] <mick_work> millhouse513: when you login and issue a shutdown it will shutdown the box and the connection to the box will hang
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[19:45:29] <mick_work> just keep opening new xterms
[19:46:07] <mick_work> or login to all boxes and in konsole - you can "send a command to all terminals"
[19:47:46] <millhouse513> ah.  is there a way i can make it fork, or another way to shutdown the computer?
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[19:49:58] <millhouse513> if i logged in and executed a bash script that simply "sleep 300; shutdown -y -g 0" would that fork and return for me?
[19:50:16] <Downix> flyingparchment, Are you in the Tampa area?
[19:50:28] <flyingparchment> Downix: no, england :)
[19:50:32] <flyingparchment> i work remotely though!
[19:50:33] <Downix> dangit
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[19:50:40] <Downix> the boss doesn't like remotely
[19:50:56] <Downix> otherwise I'd have a marketing director already onboard
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[19:53:22] <leal> hello all
[19:53:46] <leal> How can vmware make available solaris 10 virtual machines?
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[19:57:11] <leal> that is not license vilation?
[19:59:19] <xzilla> i have a machine with degraded memory, is there some way to measure the amount of available memory in the system? (and possibly determine how quickly it is degrading further?)
[19:59:55] <g4lt-sb100> leal, no, because you have a blanket RTU on solaris, it's the RTO that they hit you on
[20:01:31] <g4lt-sb100> they once limited the RTU to single CPUs, but that died pretty quickly
[20:02:15] <g4lt-sb100> xzilla, sparc or X86?
[20:02:25] <xzilla> g4lt-sb100: x86
[20:03:02] <g4lt-sb100> you're going to be horribly limited, but solaris has the best diagnostics out there, hands down
[20:03:03] <sommerfeld> xzilla: what do you mean by "degraded" (what symptoms are you seeing?)
[20:03:22] <leal> RTU?
[20:03:28] <leal> run time?
[20:04:19] <leal> g4lt-sb100: that is not a full intallation?
[20:04:26] <g4lt-sb100> right to use
[20:05:24] <g4lt-sb100> basically, solaris splits your rights into right to use and right to own.  they've given blanket RTU for a while, and now they're giving blanket RTO in the form of opensolaris
[20:06:49] <g4lt-sb100> solaris has rarely limited RTU except the processor-based mistake, sun limited the RTO for a good clip by making media kits [relatively] expensive and not granting redistribution rights.  even with opensolaris, your redistribution right is not granted in fee
[20:07:53] <g4lt-sb100> RTU == right to install and run, RTO == right to have the media to reinstall
[20:09:21] <sommerfeld> i'm glad someone understands the difference.
[20:10:01] <g4lt-sb100> sommerfeld, was that facetious?
[20:10:45] <sommerfeld> not entirely.   being way up the software distribution food chain i tend to not even think about such issues.
[20:11:50] <xzilla> sommerfeld: sorry for the delay... when i run /usr/sbin/fmadm faulty i get a message that the memory is degraded
[20:12:47] <Downix> ok, followed the routine to get MySQL running, and it still isn't running.  Hmm
[20:13:07] <sommerfeld> ok, IIRC that means that FMA has observed sufficient memory errors that it thinks you should replace a DIMM.
[20:13:36] <xzilla> sommerfeld: that sounds about right
[20:14:10] <sickness> ok I'm liveupgrading an snv74 to snv75, fingers crossed =)
[20:14:11] <xzilla> sommerfeld: but what i would like to measure is how much ram i still have available (and view that over time, untill i can replace the DIMM)
[20:16:58] <sommerfeld> that i'm not sure about.  I *believe* FMA will typically fence off a page at a time (so most likely not a noticeable amount).   But you're on notice that there are holes in the safety net.  I wouldn't run on a degraded DIMM for longer than it takes to get the replacement in hand.
[20:17:46] <xzilla> sommerfeld: yeah, thats my plan... but i am noticing some performance issues, so i was wondering how many pages i'd lost
[20:19:18] <WickedWicky> howedy
[20:20:07] <sommerfeld> some of the performance impact may be in additional overhead to correct errors and report the error correction rather than from reduced memory capacity
[20:20:20] <WickedWicky> xzilla: might wanna run memtest86
[20:20:22] <WickedWicky> http://www.memtest86.com/
[20:20:36] <millhouse513> is there anyway to fork the shutdown command?
[20:21:18] <WickedWicky> fork?
[20:21:21] <Downix> I guess I'll have to wait till tomorrow to fix mysql
[20:21:44] <xzilla> WickedWicky: memtest? i want to run "rip out dimm and put in a good one"
[20:21:50] <millhouse513> i need to make a shell script to ssh into a number of boxes and issue the shutdown command, but the shutdown command doesn't fork so my script hangs
[20:22:01] <WickedWicky> xzilla: if you have one dimm, sure, I presumed you had more than one
[20:22:13] <xzilla> WickedWicky: ah, i gotcha
[20:22:15] <xzilla> :-)
[20:22:28] <WickedWicky> ssh usr@host shutdown \&
[20:22:32] <leal>  g4lt-sb100: thanks for the explanation!
[20:22:33] <WickedWicky> something like that?
[20:22:42] <millhouse513> let me try..
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[20:22:58] <WickedWicky> if it works your system will go down, so I hope you planned downtime
[20:23:34] <WickedWicky> Downix: there should be a file called `hostname`.err in your mysql datadir
[20:23:36] <holcomb> init 5 (or 0) will return
[20:23:38] <WickedWicky> check it for hints
[20:23:43] <sommerfeld> or ... shutdown -g 30 -y -i 6 "Rebooting to test shutdown" \&
[20:24:10] <sommerfeld> uh, init 5 powers off.  init 0 halts to whatever passes for the firmware monitor
[20:24:13] <sommerfeld> 6 reboots
[20:24:28] <WickedWicky> killall -9 surely will bring your system down (AND NO DONT FFING TRY THIS ON A REMOTE BOX)
[20:24:45] <WickedWicky> but um
[20:24:47] <holcomb> does shutdown go to firmware or power off?
[20:24:52] <holcomb> never tried it
[20:24:57] <WickedWicky> just for my understanding
[20:25:03] <WickedWicky> you dont care much for security, do you
[20:25:11] <WickedWicky> providing shutdown has to be ran as root
[20:25:13] <Downix> The error is "Can't open and lock priveledge tables: "mysql.host" doesn't exist
[20:25:19] <WickedWicky> and you're ssh-ing to those machines
[20:25:29] <WickedWicky> Downix: run mysql_install_db
[20:25:37] <millhouse513> yeah
[20:25:57] <millhouse513> i ran that, but it won't return me to the console afterwards, i have to hit ctrl-c
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[20:28:01] <Downix> Ran it, still the same error
[20:28:47] <millhouse513> wickedwicky:  are you talking to me (about the security)?
[20:29:01] <millhouse513> holcomb:  by default shutdown goes to power off
[20:29:26] <holcomb> cool
[20:29:57] <WickedWicky> millhouse513: yes
[20:31:05] <millhouse513> wickedwicky:  yes and no...  the iscsi system is in it's own area of the network, so none of the target nodes are seen by anyone but the server.
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[20:31:39] <millhouse513> and no one outside knows solaris, so from that standpoint i'm pretty safe, but it does need to be more secure
[20:32:05] <WickedWicky> Downix: I dunno :(
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[20:33:17] <WickedWicky> Downix: all problems i see related to this error indicate SElinux being a bitch, which doesn't sound very plausible for a Solaris host ;-)
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[20:33:57] <bda> Downix: Check permissions on /var/mysql/mysql (or wherever your db lives).
[20:34:15] <bda> It should be mysql:mysql 700 (or whatever your mysql user is).
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[20:38:08] <Downix> Hmm
[20:38:13] <Downix> in the error logs found something else
[20:38:23] <Downix> a no such file or directory, but I'm looking right at it
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[20:39:00] <sommerfeld> holcomb: shutdown -i N goes to a particular runlevel.  usual runlevels for shutdown are 0: halt at firmware (or "press any key to reboot" on x86).  5: power off.  6: reboot
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[20:39:36] <WickedWicky> heya cmihai
[20:39:39] <cmihai> Hey
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[20:45:13] <Downix> I'
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[20:45:17] <Downix> I'll reboot to see
[20:45:20] <Downix> this is preculiar
[20:47:14] <bda> ...
[20:50:30] <Downix> it says it's in maintenace now
[20:50:48] <jteo> the mysql service?
[20:50:51] <Downix> yup
[20:51:29] <jteo> svcs -x "service name"
[20:51:34] <jteo> then read the log.
[20:51:42] <jteo> that should get you starte.
[20:51:45] <jteo> *started.
[20:52:25] <Downix> /sbin/sh: /opt/coolstack/lib/svc/method/svc-cskmysql: not found
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[20:52:43] <jteo> there we go.
[20:53:00] <Downix> except I see it w/o issue
[20:53:10] <Downix> unless....
[20:53:14] <Downix> **digs into it**
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[20:57:17] <Downix> if I try and run it directly I get : bad interpreter: No such file or directory
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[20:57:34] <jteo> intriguing.
[20:58:48] <smtms> so actually the "not found" message refers to the interpreter
[21:00:58] <Downix> seems so
[21:01:08] <Downix> what is odd is that it's adding ^M's to the file
[21:01:18] <Downix> just opened it to check
[21:01:26] <Downix> but under Linux or BSD, not there
[21:01:55] <cmihai> Welcome to DOS vs. UNIX line feeds. Use vi to edit it... or unix2dos / dos2unix scripts... or awk/sed.
[21:02:19] <jteo> wtf would there be DOS line feeds. hmm.
[21:02:43] <Downix> cmihai, I'm quite familiar with dos line feeds, I'm confused why vi under Linux doesn't see them but vi under solaris is.
[21:03:01] <cmihai> Because Linux uses vim
[21:03:03] <cmihai> and calls it vi
[21:03:26] <Downix> or joe, or emacs or pico...
[21:03:29] <Downix> very odd
[21:03:35] <Downix> ok, time to get out the manual tools
[21:03:44] <Downix> (never did figure out how to edit with vi, just how to read)
[21:04:25] <g4lt-sb100> why would you read with vi, read with view, less chance you'll screw something up, since :w is disabled in the view alias
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[21:05:16] <e^ipi> Downix: there's a coffeemug with all the vi commands on it
[21:05:25] <e^ipi> well, not all... a rather small subet actually
[21:05:26] <Downix> oh nevermind, got it
[21:05:30] <e^ipi> but enough to become functional
[21:05:33] <Downix> not hard at all
[21:05:48] <cmihai> ed(1) man, not man ed...
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[21:09:33] <Downix> that worked!  yay!
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[21:10:43] <Downix> it's running!
[21:11:04] <Downix> ok, small accomplishment, admittedly, but one I am proud of, thank you everyone for your help
[21:11:14] <Downix> and, a bit more worldly about vi now
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[21:12:00] <gdamor1> join #snt
[21:12:29] <bgupta> Downix, check this page out: http://www.genunix.org/wiki/index.php/RegexRecipes
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[21:13:07] <Downix> **bookmarking**
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[21:18:46] <leal> hello all..
[21:19:12] <leal> i did not "special" on the solaris 10 u3 installation, now, i have another disc that i want to use to live upgrade.. can i?
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[21:19:55] <leal> my current disc has just two partitions (slices) s0 "/" and swap.
[21:22:28] <leal> anybody?
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[21:26:13] <bgupta> leal, send an email to opensolaris-help at opensolaris dot org
[21:26:29] <leal> bgupta: thanks.
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[21:34:02] <jafari> hello, all does anyone know about any patches that will break ipfilter/nat on solaris 10? last night i ran pca --install to install any patches i needed, some patches required a reboot, so i did the reboot and now ipfilter nat doesnt work anymore.. if any kernal patch was installed does the kernal need to be reinstalled... i been trying to figure out this issue all day and im not getting anywhere , can anyone help me please....
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[21:40:59] <FuzzyB> doesn't opensolaris have mkfs.ext3 somewhere, or do i have to install something to get it?
[21:41:08] <e^ipi> umm...
[21:41:12] <e^ipi> solaris uses UFS
[21:41:14] <e^ipi> not ext3
[21:41:39] <FuzzyB> i know this
[21:42:30] <e^ipi> so, why would you need mkfs.ext3?
[21:42:37] <jteo> hence it does not include the tools to create ext3 filesystems.
[21:42:43] <e^ipi> since the machine can't mount or read ext3
[21:42:54] <sickness> well, there are tools to read ext2
[21:43:09] <sickness> and ext3 is backwards compatible, it's just ext2 + journaling
[21:43:22] <FuzzyB> xen
[21:43:39] <e^ipi> what about xen?
[21:43:50] <FuzzyB> i need to format a xfs slice for a linux xen guest
[21:43:53] <FuzzyB> err zfs
[21:44:40] <jteo> ?
[21:44:43] <sickness> you could format it from the guest itself or from a linux livecd, provided there's a way to run one inside xen...
[21:45:18] <FuzzyB> and how do you expect to format the root partition for a guest from the guest?
[21:45:21] <e^ipi> I've no use for xen... no apps that I use are closed source and linux only
[21:45:29] <FuzzyB> that's kinda a chicken egg problem there
[21:45:35] <sickness> FuzzyB: while running the guest installer?
[21:45:48] <FuzzyB> you generally don't run a guest installer unless your doing hvm
[21:45:53] <FuzzyB> which i'm not
[21:46:08] <sickness> FuzzyB: chicken egg? how do you format a raw device of a vmware guest, if you are under win32 for example, and the guest is solaris?
[21:46:11] <sickness> heh
[21:46:12] <sickness> so that's a problem
[21:46:25] <sickness> maybe you could run a minimal linux livecd iso with qemu
[21:46:27] <FuzzyB> i don't do vmware, or win32 so i don't know your answer
[21:46:36] <sickness> and point qemu to the raw device (the zvol, for example)
[21:46:54] <sickness> and then xfs format from that, then close qemu, and launch the xen non-hvm domain...
[21:46:55] <Triskelios> FuzzyB: mk2efs (aka mkfs.ext*) is in FSWfsmisc
[21:47:13] <FuzzyB> where would i find FSWfsmisc?
[21:47:51] <Triskelios> the belenix download page
[21:47:55] <FuzzyB> ok
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[21:58:19] <FuzzyB> i use pkgadd to install that right?
[21:59:47] <FuzzyB> nm
[21:59:48] <FuzzyB> there we go
[22:00:58] <FuzzyB> where would i find libintl?
[22:01:44] <quasi> SUNWcslr
[22:01:51] <FuzzyB> thank you
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[22:14:52] <FuzzyB> quasi: where would i find that, i'm not seeing it anywhere in a sun package
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[22:18:34] <FuzzyB> is it part of sun studio or something?
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[22:20:55] <alrikvomfluss> hi there
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[22:23:06] <alrikvomfluss> just got a problem after a live-upgrade from snv_70 to snv_75 and now found out, that it's a well known bug, which should be fixed in release snv_75 (but seams to still exist). it's bug 6600169 (dvd drive not detected). could somebody confirm this?
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[22:25:02] <sickness> heh I just liveupgraded a pc that hasn't optical drives at all :\
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[22:26:46] <networkdump> hello
[22:26:49] * WickedWicky plays the godfather's theme
[22:26:52] <WickedWicky> ola
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[22:27:09] <networkdump> may some one point me to the good channel for xen help?
[22:27:16] <FuzzyB> ##xen
[22:27:23] <networkdump> regarding osol I mean
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[22:27:34] <FuzzyB> #solaris-xen on oftc
[22:27:54] <networkdump> oftc?
[22:28:43] <networkdump> thank you
[22:31:39] <leal> somebody can help with live upgrade?
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[22:32:41] <coffman> leal: just ask
[22:33:16] <myrkraverk> erm, I've been playing with the terminfo part of curses, and I don't get colors without TERM=xterm-color
[22:33:22] <myrkraverk> but how does curses do that?
[22:33:30] <WickedWicky> yeah, the only thing that can happen is that you're being bitched at for asking stuff without offering coffee first, you'll live ;-)
[22:33:35] <leal> coffman: after the message: Checking for GRUB menu on boot environment <sol10u4>.
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[22:34:00] <leal> i'm getting this error: ERROR: No suitable Solaris slice found on boot disk: </dev/rdsk/c0t5006048449AF62A7d34p0>
[22:34:22] <leal> but the device /dev/rdsk/c0t5006048449AF62A7d34p0 is not the boot device.
[22:34:31] <WickedWicky> wait
[22:34:50] <WickedWicky> I think tempt has something regarding that that should be checked
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[22:35:25] <leal> the lucurr command displays the active boot env correctly
[22:35:45] 
[22:35:53] <WickedWicky> http://www2.purplecow.org/?p=69#more-69
[22:35:56] <WickedWicky> ..
[22:35:57] <WickedWicky> wtf, why bold
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[22:36:36] <leal> thanks i will read it!
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[22:38:52] <WickedWicky> what on earth is that for target id anyway?
[22:39:00] <WickedWicky> external SCSI device?
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[22:39:20] <leal> yes.
[22:39:28] <leal> does not work?
[22:40:42] <WickedWicky> well
[22:40:55] <WickedWicky> if i recall correctly I had a similar issue before
[22:41:03] <WickedWicky> and i resolved it by changing the boot order in my BIOS
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[22:41:19] <WickedWicky> or boot preference
[22:41:39] <leal> but that post does not say anything about how to fix the "biosdev" information... :)
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[22:42:06] <WickedWicky> my BIOS had an option to set preference to SATA/SCSI or SCSI/SATA
[22:42:20] <WickedWicky> and depending on what I choosed I could or couldnt boot from a particulair disk
[22:42:58] <leal> Ok, but that makes the "lucreate" command does not work?
[22:43:37] <WickedWicky> well, grub should be on your boot partition, so when your BIOS reports the wrong disk as being the boot disk, then it wont work
[22:43:40] <myrkraverk> who/what controls the terminfo database?
[22:43:41] <leal> i mean, my machine is booting ok, but seems like the systems does not know from where it had booted...
[22:44:15] <myrkraverk> as of snv 68, it seems way older than the one in linux (with regards to xterm)
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[22:44:29] <BallChalk|away> Nitro tha CiMien
[22:44:47] <WickedWicky> Nitro gives you headaches
[22:44:48] <leal> actually is a boot from HBA
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[22:45:14] <leal> maybe live upgrade does not work with HBA boot....
[22:45:31] <WickedWicky> I never tried, so I cant tell you that, sorry
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[22:45:42] <WickedWicky> I just boot from internal disks
[22:46:11] <leal> thanks alot, now i know the "reason" for the error... so, i will need to fix the biosdev to proceed.
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[22:46:41] <leal> tomorrow is another day. :)
[22:50:02] <WickedWicky> tomorrow is friday
[22:50:32] <WickedWicky> with by tradition means everybody but the  sysadmins/engineers will not be in the office
[22:50:41] <WickedWicky> friday == soccer with a tennisbal day
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[22:51:13] <WickedWicky> and flirting with the coffee lady, eventhough that's not much of a success :s
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[22:51:36] <e^ipi> your barista doesn't like you, she just gets paid to pretend to
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[22:52:02] <e^ipi> sorry to break it to you, but that's just the way things work
[22:52:03] <WickedWicky> yea, we have entire streets with people like that
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[22:52:12] <WickedWicky> *sob*
[22:52:35] <hrlmec> I'm very confused about the permissons.  We have a group called "company".  We create a directory called /companyname owned by group company with 775 permissions (group read-write-executable).  Why can another use in gruop "company" not create a directory in /company?
[22:52:38] <WickedWicky> and I can't even go drama and tell her I'll buy the coffee elsewhere, cause she'll just laugh and tell me that'll mean the machine giving me a plastic white cup with .. something
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[22:53:47] <e^ipi> hrlmec: this looks like a job for RBAC
[22:53:56] <e^ipi> (everything looks like a job for RBAC once you understand it)
[22:53:57] <tomww> hrlmec: can the other user create regular files in /companyname ?
[22:54:18] <e^ipi> RBAC: we've got it.
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[22:55:03] <hrlmec> no.
[22:55:30] <tomww> there are some other possible causes. is the storage fro /companyname local or mounted via nfs?
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[22:55:40] <hrlmec> local.  it's a zfs system.
[22:56:20] <WickedWicky> I can reproduce it
[22:56:27] <WickedWicky> it works on a local UFS file system
[22:56:31] <WickedWicky> not on a ZFS file system
[22:56:41] <tomww> if you do a "ls -axl" is there a unusial "+" sign besides the owner/group/world permission fields?
[22:56:49] <WickedWicky> or wait
[22:56:52] <WickedWicky> I am being silly
[22:57:16] <tomww> WickedWicky: honestly?
[22:57:19] <WickedWicky> yea
[22:57:20] <WickedWicky> it works
[22:57:43] <hrlmec> drwxrwxr-x+  2 root     company 	2 Oct 25 15:56 test
[22:57:50] <tomww> bingo
[22:57:55] <WickedWicky> drwxrwxr-x   2 root     build          3 Oct 25 22:55 .
[22:57:56] <WickedWicky> drwxrwxr-x   8 root     root           8 Oct 25 22:54 ..
[22:57:56] <WickedWicky> $ id
[22:57:56] <WickedWicky> uid=101(build) gid=1(other)
[22:59:05] <bda> oo. "non-trivial ACL". Sounds serious.
[22:59:20] <tomww> try a "ls -v" on ther diry
[22:59:55] <WickedWicky> ey, that gives neat output, I learnt something today
[23:00:48] <WickedWicky> even though I am puzzled
[23:00:54] <tomww> and the point goes to "ls -v" :-)
[23:01:02] <WickedWicky>      2:group@:write_data/append_data/execute:deny
[23:01:02] <WickedWicky>      3:group@:read_data:allow
[23:01:13] <WickedWicky> assumes group cant write, right?
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[23:01:45] <WickedWicky> or is this only relevant when you see this + thingy
[23:01:46] <tomww> seems so, not even execute
[23:02:09] <tomww> the "plus" is the secret pointer to tell you about acls
[23:02:32] <WickedWicky> aha, that's it then. I dont have those ACLS, which is why I can write to the dir as group
[23:02:47] <tomww> it's just to confuse the dozzers
[23:02:50] <hrlmec> how do you make it so a subdirectory inherits the settings of the parent directory automatically?
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[23:05:27] <tomww> I think this is done via the extra "default" attribute, which I think get's inheritd (not 100% sure since never read about that deatil/used it myself)
[23:05:39] <tomww> man setfacl
[23:06:29] <tomww> zfs and NFSv4 uses some version 4 ACLs, and UFS an older one
[23:07:56] <tomww> so with zfs and NFSv4 you are more flexible to produce more chaotic settings
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[23:08:26] <tomww> as with ... OS
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[23:10:12] <WickedWicky> good night all
[23:10:24] <tomww> night WickedWicky and dream bout acls
[23:10:50] <WickedWicky> more likely about Kate Beckinsale
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[23:13:00] <tomww> your choice, might be more interesting :-)
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[23:29:12] <quasi> FuzzyB: PKGINST:  SUNWcslr  NAME:  Core Solaris Libraries (Root)
[23:31:41] <quasi> FuzzyB: if you have solaris, I'm pretty sure you have that package installed already
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[23:34:03] <FuzzyB> hrm
[23:36:16] <l1s> you need to reinstall some packages if you install with textmode. at least thats what had to do after an initial installation
[23:36:45] <FuzzyB> oh that explains everything
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[23:54:33] <brendang> tim foster - are you here somewhere? :)
[23:55:10] <seanmcg> tim is probably getting some much needed sleep :)
[23:55:38] <seanmcg> He couldn't even go to the opensolaris talk this evening.
[23:55:44] <brendang> isn't it only 11pm?
[23:55:53] <Gman_> yeah - mail him, he's around
[23:56:00] <Gman_> he just replied on a mailing list 5 mins ago
[23:56:07] <Gman_> (though doesn't appear to be on IM either)
[23:56:22] <brendang> ok.  I don't want to bump him off an sp/console if he is activly running commands :)
[23:57:02] <l1s> who is tim?
[23:57:24] <Gman_> zfs test engineer, works for sun, also happens to be my brother
[23:57:41] <brendang> time and I are working on a ZFS perf feature at the moment...
[23:57:48] <brendang> s/time/tim/
[23:58:04] <l1s> ah
[23:58:09] <l1s> for free?
[23:58:29] <l1s> if so, what else do you do to earn money?
[23:58:42] <seanmcg> brendang works for sun too...
[23:58:49] <l1s> hm
[23:59:32] <seanmcg> though you'll get (and do get) the value of their efforts for free :)
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[23:59:59] <l1s> hm





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